WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=WzPLkrOcYcw

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: WzPLkrOcYcw):
- 00:00:00: Whiteway, Richland Tennis Courts History and Overview
- 00:04:26: Proclamation for National Public Works Week
- 00:06:35: Proclamation for National EMS Week
- 00:10:30: Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes
- 00:11:19: Public Comments Instructions and Meeting Explanation
- 00:13:28: Public Comment: Charles Lo - Various City Issues
- 00:16:13: Public Comment: Girl Scout Troop - City Feedback
- 00:19:15: Consultant Report: Water Treatment Facilities Master Plan
- 00:19:29: Objectives and Background of the Water Master Plan
- 00:23:39: Challenges to Water Treatment Plants and PFAS Removal
- 00:25:48: White Way Plant Condition and Rehabilitation Needs
- 00:28:17: PFAS, Hardness and other Contaminants Treatment Needs
- 00:30:25: Comparison of PFAS Removal Treatment Processes
- 00:34:13: Evaluating Alternate Options like County Water
- 00:37:25: Sustainable Management of Concentrated PFAS Waste
- 00:40:57: Current Plant Compliance and Capital Cost Estimate
- 00:44:30: Nanofiltration, Deep Well Recommended Water Treatment
- 00:47:17: Whiteway and Sunningdale Water Treatment Renewal Plan
- 00:50:18: Funding Avenues for Water Treatment Improvement Projects
- 00:51:54: Public Comment Format Introduction and Clarification
- 00:52:59: Public Comment: Chris Barkin - Water Treatment Concerns
- 00:55:54: Public Comment: Charles Lo - Water Treatment Questions
- 01:32:15: Discussing Wastewater Costs, Accuracy of Data
- 01:35:16: Concerns: Single Points of Failure, Grant Funding, Deadlines
- 01:39:35: Uncertainties of Concentrate Disposal, Nano Filter Maintenance
- 01:43:34: Public Comment: Concerns and Questions from Constituents
- 01:44:59: Public Comment: Nanofiltration, Deep Injection Well Location
- 01:50:06: Public Comment: Exploratory Wells, Cost, Mitigation
- 01:58:11: Public Comment: Cost Benefit Analysis, Public Awareness
- 01:59:33: Talton Closing Remarks, Council Member Feedback
- 02:03:04: Council Member Cautions, Interconnect Considerations
- 02:09:34: Council Discussion: Overruns, Public Concerns
- 02:12:48: Funding Options for Proposed Water Plant Improvements
- 02:14:24: Napoli Presentation: Rate Study, Debt, Financial Model
- 02:34:20: Public Comment: Coverage, Fund Balance, Revenue
- 02:37:24: Public Comment: Commitment, Annual Increase Reduction
- 02:40:54: Public Comment: Enterprise Fund Clarification, Rate Concerns
- 02:50:21: Public Comment: Manage Construction, Lesen Impact
- 02:55:30: Strong Approval of Construction Manager Position
- 02:58:10: What is The Next Step? More to Discover
- 03:03:58: Reviewing Old Business, and Adjournment


Part: 1

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those two uh tennis courts were built uh in ' 74. Tennis still booming needed more courts. So in 1976 uh the city put out a RFP and authorized

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the two additional tennis courts at the Whiteway Richland facility to the six courts as it is today and along with additional lighting and an office with two bathrooms which is there now. That was in 1976.

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That tennis facility there there in the mid to late u7s was one of the hottest tennis centers in the Tampa Bay area. Is really only one of three. Brandon here in Davis Island. And we hosted a lot of different tennis

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tournaments and events. It was home to uh King High School Matches League Play, which also had one of the best historic women's tennis league teams ever with Council Member Fernandez's mom being on that uh one of that that team. Of

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course, open play. In uh 1999, uh the city had a a demand for more courts and clay tennis courts were really being talked about. So, in 1999, there was a vacant lot next to the

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family complex uh on uh >> it's off of Gillette. >> Thank you, Gillet. Couldn't brain f couldn't figure that road out. All right. So, the city bought that land and built six clay courts and they're there now. And again, that is a one of the

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best clay tennis facilities in the Bay Area Bay Area. So that's uh kind of the big timeline on tumble terrace tennis, but I wanted to go back to the resolution of the of the city council resolution 1672.

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And that was to authorize the construction of the four courts behind the Lightoot Recreation Center. And this is for us city council members, staff out there, city manager, staff that resolution. And I want to recognize the city council members at that time.

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Council member Gerard Valente, Bullard, Bondi, and Owen. Those names, some of them sound familiar. Mayor George Fee, and the recreation director, uh, Ken Boyd at that time. And what I want to talk about was how sometimes our

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decisions here at council staff's ideas make a difference to people. So, that was a very historic vote those courts were built. So, I've got a picture uh for it. Not yet, Brian, but I got a picture of what those four courts look like. It's only a corner. I couldn't

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find any old ones. If you've ever played down there, you would know about the office. So, this picture doesn't have the office in it, but I'll show it to you, Brian. Okay. So, behind that nice young man is a uh the there's no homes down Richland.

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There's no wall there. There's no tennis building. There's no anything. And if you don't know that young man, that's me. And this is the point I want to make. Someone made a decision in this city to build tennis courts. I'd never played

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till it was built. I went down there, learned tennis. From that I got a job working at those courts. That got my career started. Brian, second p picture. This is the King High tennis team. 1974.

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First time King ever had a tennis team was because these courts were built. There were none at the high school. All right, take a guess. Where am I? I'm going give you a second. Bottom middle.

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Okay. So, that's me. So, that was high school. If that's important, Brian, next picture. Last picture. King girls tennis team bottom right that's my wife of 46 years

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I met her because of king tennis so guys lady our decisions make a difference made a difference in my life so that's my historic fact very good >> sorry about that >> well I don't know who has it next but

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that's going to be a tough one to beat Yeah, the bar set pretty high for you. >> So, well, next up we have a proclamation for National Public Works Week. And I'd like to call our public works director, uh, Jason Warrenfelds, up to the podium.

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Jason, for everything you and your staff do for us, I don't think it can be contained in one proclamation, but we're going to give it a shot. And so uh says whereas public works professionals focus on infrastructure facilities and services that are of vital importance to sustainable and resilience communities

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and to the public health, high quality of life and well-being of the people of Temple Terrace. These infrastructure, facilities, and services could not be provided without the dedicated effort of public works professionals who are engineers, managers, and employees at

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all levels of government and the private sector who are responsible for rebuilding, improving, and protecting our nation's transportation, water supply, water treatment, solid waste systems, public buildings, and other structures. It is in the public interest

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for the citizens, civic leaders, and children in Temple Terrace to gain knowledge of and to maintain an ongoing interest in understanding of the importance of public works and public works programs in their communities. Whereas the year 2026 marks the 66th

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annual National Public Works Week sponsored by the American Public Works Association. Therefore, I, Andrew Ross, by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the city of Temple Terrace, Florida, do hereby set aside May 17th to 203rd as National Public Works Week. And Mr.

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Warfeld, would you like to say a few words? Sure. >> Thank you, Mayor Ros City Council for presenting this resolution in recognition of National Public Works Week. We sincerely appreciate the acknowledgement of the to the dedicated professionals who work every day to maintain and improve the city's

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infrastructure and services. Public Works Week is an important opportunity to highlight the essential contributions of public works employees and the value they bring to the residents and the businesses alike. On behalf of our department team, thank you for your continued support and recognition of the public works week.

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>> Thank you, Mr. Warfield. Okay. Three, two, one. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. We have one more and that is for national EMS week and you can see that we have a half our fire department is

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here and we have our assistant chief Shane Sammon to come up and receive the proclamation. Good evening chief. >> Thank you. >> Whereas this year's national EMS week theme is EMS week improving outcomes together. Emergency medical services are

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a vital public service. The members of the Temple Terrace Fire Department, both firefighters and EMS responders, provide life-saving care for those in need 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Access to quality emergency medical care dramatically improves the survival and

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recovery rate of those who experience sudden illness or injury. The emergency medical services system consists of first responders, medical directors, emergency nurses, emergency medical technicians, paramedics, firefighters,

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educators, administrators, and others. The Temple Terrace Fire Department's EMT and paramedics engage in thousands of hours of specialized training and continuing education to enhance their life-saving skills. It is appropriate to recognize the value

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and the accomplishments of emergency medical services providers by designating emergency medical services week. Therefore, I, Andrew Ross, by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the city of Temple Terrace, Florida, do hereby proclaim May 17th

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through 23rd as emergency medical services week. Chief, would you like to say a few words? >> Sure. Sure. I think you uh you covered a lot of that. Um, I would like to just at least recognize kind of like you had pointed out, um, you know, it's it's the guys in the back

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here who are providing these services to our citizens every single day. Um, our department runs about 5,000 medical calls. I mean, 5,000 calls a year. About 75% of those are medical calls. And so, they do a tremendous job. They serve

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citizens well. Um, our our slogan is is exceeding expectations. and they do that every single day that they put on the uniform and come into our community and provide the services. So, thank you uh to you guys for recognizing us and thank you for for our department. And then one

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one last person to recognizes our medical director, Dr. Brook Shepard, one of our own citizens within the uh community here. She's a strong leader for our emergency medical services program. And so without her, we wouldn't have the direction that we need. So, thank you.

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>> Thank you, Chief. And thank you, guys. Yep. Come on. >> All right. Can everyone inch over a little bit this way? >> Okay. Three, two, one. All right. Thank you.

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>> Thanks again. Okay. So, next we have approval of the May 5th city council meeting minutes. If everybody's have an opportunity to review the minutes. Is there a motion to approve? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Any corrections or adjustments to the

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minutes? Seeing none, all those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? No nazs. minutes are adopted. Next, we have um persons wishing to be heard on items not listed on the agenda or items on the consent agenda. So, let

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me take a moment to explain to everybody how this meeting is going to go tonight because it's a little um little out of the ordinary the way tonight is going. This section is for public comments on items not listed on the agenda. So, if you're here and you wish to comment on

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the water report that we're going to get, this would not be the right time. Um, there will be public comment. We have two presentations. One is on the water treatment proposal. We will have public comments after that presentation.

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The second one involves the financing uh what the possible financing schemes could be and there will be public comment after that presentation as well. So, we have three times for the public to um make public comment to the council

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today. It also should be noted that concerning the water quality um presentation that we have a town hall meeting next Tuesday at 6:00 at the Lightfoot Center. So the public uh will have yet another opportunity to kind of

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digest what gets presented tonight, kind of think about it, make notes, kind of think of some questions, and then we will have the town hall meeting next Tuesday for some additional public engagement. Uh we do not plan on the council making a decision on any of this

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tonight. So there's probably not going to be a vote in a decision because we have the town hall meeting. So we want to finish um engaging the public on this. So, um, anyhow, with all that being said, um, this is for public comment for items not listed on the

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agenda. Uh, we do have forms in the back of the room on the table. Uh, we have a 30-minut time limit for this portion of the meeting, although we rarely hit that. Uh, if necessary, we continue this portion of the meeting at the end of the meeting to allow all members of the

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public to be heard. We do ask that speakers uh come to the podium and begin with their name and city of residence and there is a threeminut time limit imposed on the speakers. I currently have three requests to speak. Uh first up is

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Mr. Lo. >> Good evening Mr. Lo. >> Good evening everybody. Charles Love Terrace Park and I got a miscellaneous group of subjects to talk to you about tonight. Uh, first of all, I'm glad it's public service week because I do want to compliment the people uh uh Mr. uh Mr.

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Warrenfelds and the public service staff are pitching in and taking care of the bathrooms in the library. You don't know how many compliments I've heard about that and I did want to make sure you all know about that. That's number one. Number two, tomorrow night is our meeting in Terrace Park neighborhood

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association meeting where we'll be talking about the Museum of Science and Industry. We're going to have someone there from there. I am willing to take any public any comments from anybody on it. I've gotten a few and uh we're going to be discussing it and uh in rather

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length and all that. And if anybody has anything to say about it, we're going to begin our meeting at the library at 6 between 6:00 and 6:30 p.m. tomorrow night. Uh the next thing I have, I'm going to state an opinion. Uh and I'm going to stick with this opinion. To me,

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uh to me, what happened in this city with the EPA is and and those private companies is an absolute outrage. And as far as I am concerned, what would be I view as justice would be for them to reimburse you a good portion of the PFAS

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money and of the public and of the uh public safety complex. Again, that's my opinion and I am entitled to it. Now, fourthly, I want to talk about Woodmont Charter School. Uh they have made some really significant upgrades or they're

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planning some for 20 2026 2027. Uh, I gave a list to the city manager of what I noticed, but I don't think it'd be proper for me to tell you, and I certainly couldn't answer the questions that you all might have. My suggestion to you all is that you all would come

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and invite them in to come and talk to you, and they can tell you themselves a little bit more detail what these upgrades are. They're very significant from what I saw on the signs outside walking by. And I think you and the citizens would have be very would be

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very, very interested in them. Uh finally uh now I have a little bit extra time uh I was thinking about Memorial Day. We should think about of course we all be in know it's the beginning of the summer season and so on and so forth but we should take some time to think about

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the people who gave their lives so we would have freedom today. Thank you and good evening. >> Thank you Mr. Lo. Now we have a couple of very special speakers. We have some young ladies here from the Girl Scout Troop 32608. And the first one to speak and where's

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Mary? Mary, we might need some help with the microphone. I'm not sure. So if we I'm thinking if Serena stands behind the podium, nobody might be able to see her. So >> So the first speaker is Serena Scott and and then we have Genevie Allander.

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Are they going to speak together? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we'll be a little uh fluid with the time, I suppose. Well, good evening. >> See, I told you there's nothing to be nervous about. You guys aren't still

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nervous, are you? You shouldn't be. Just talk to us. We're just like regular people. Okay. All right. >> Um, my name is Serena Scott from Troop 32608. These are also the girls in my troop. And we are here because we are working on a badge called democracy for

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cadetses. When we have earned this badge, we will learn how we will have learned new things about our government. How each branch works and how they work together and how each piece makes a difference in society. Step one is finding out about our local government.

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We are given three choices in this first step and we've chose two. First, Miss Cherry Donahghue spoke to us about our local government. Mrs. Donghue is a former council member who explained how jobs are done and how elect local elections work. The reason we are here

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today is to see democracy in action by attending a meeting where the public is giving time to speak and share their thoughts and possibly see how a a vote turns out. Um the rest of the steps to earn this badge will be learning about our state, federal, legislative,

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executive and judicial branches of government. Now I would like to introduce Genevieve Allander who would like to give the council some feedback from our troop. Thank you. Hi, my name is Genevie Allander. I made a simple survey a couple months ago of

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what my troop likes about our city. The the top three things they said were the trees, fun activities, and safety. The other things they wished were better was traffic. When asked what makes our community more likable, they said number

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one, safety, number two, fun activities, and number three, job opportunities. The last thing we asked was if they were to write a letter to city council, what would they say? They said, "Thank you to our first responders and as we grow, keep us feeling small." We also agreed

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that Temple Terrace was the number one city in Hillsboro County. Thank you. >> Well, thank you. You guys did a terrific job. Thank you for joining us tonight and and uh that's a very insightful project that

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you have going on. So thank you Mrs. Donahghue for taking that on and working with them and in the blink of an eye they will be up here on this day as as council members. So very good. So that is currently all the requests I have to speak at this portion of the meeting. Is

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there are there other members of the public who wish to address the council at this time? Okay, very good. We will move on then uh to our consultant report. This is uh water treatment facilities master plan

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and Ed Talton, our CHA consulting senior principal engineer uh is here to explain. Good evening. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Vice Mayor, esteemed council members, uh, city clerk, city

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manager, and city attorney, as well as the citizens of Temple Terrace. It's an honor to be before you tonight. Um, one of the things that's in the title and it's a appropriate week to say this is want to thank uh, and it's a great week to thank our public works uh, folks for

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keeping our water running for 40 years, right? Water is a critical resource and when we open that tap, we expect water to come out, right? And I credit the uh, elected officials for performing this project to keep the water running for another 40 years. So you talk about

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actions, this is an action that will keep it going. All right. Um this was a a master plan of your water treatment facilities and supplies. And this is a a a pretty brief summary of what we found.

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Um for our objectives when we set out onto the um the the master plan was number one. We want to identify what's needed for your two water plants to keep them running for the next 40 years, right? um to improve the product delivery uh so

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that um we move into the future with with um excellent water service going forward as well as as behind us continuing to meet state and federal regulations. We also want to meet those new EPA uh POS regulations as well, right? There's a timetable to do that

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and some big news on that as well. And POS, as you know, is perr and poly floral alkal substances. We'll go into a little bit of that, but I think everybody's pretty up to speed on what those are. We want to select a renewal plan that

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minimizes the rate impacts to your citizens because treating POS and removing it from your water is a pretty expensive endeavor, right? You you you already know that. And so our plan needs to minimize the rate impacts to the citizens. And it's a good thing you have your rate consultant here to follow that

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up as well. So we kept that in mind throughout this project. And the last objective of the master plan is to provide costs and budgeting going forward to take care of the plant, keep it running, and meet those future regulations. So that was that's the

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mission of this plan. A little bit of background. Um CHA was hired by the city in 2024 and I stood before you at last August in the PAS town hall and uh I I really had a good time uh talking with folks. It's not a great situation to be in, but it was it

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was really good to hear and absorb what the what the elected officials and the citizens uh you know really felt from that and we embody that in this project. So we understand everyone's concern and we want to go forward with a plan that that meets not only yours but the the citizens objectives. Uh and the mission

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is to provide that framework for the water treatment and supply going forward. And by framework we mean what facilities are needed, what treatment processes are needed, when th when those things are to be timed, when we need to spend the money uh to keep those moving

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forward. Uh C just a quick uh brief thing about CHA. We are an engineering firm and we provide uh services to cities like Temple Terrace all over the state of Florida I4 corridor as as well as nationally. And we're we're a firm that's focused on water quality. We're

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full service and we're local. Right. We have a Tampa office. Uh I'm from the Winter Springs office and I grew up in Dand, Florida. So, um you know, we're we're local to you and we feel like we're a part of the community. You know, I had a a 40 slide uh

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presentation for you tonight, but I understand that, you know, people have important things to do. So, we we boil it down and I'm going to hit you with the top three conclusions from the treatment master plan right now. So, we really viewed this as a three-headed uh

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challenge. There's there's three big things that we got to address. And um Mr. Vice Mayor, uh the water treatment plants were built just shortly after the tennis court, right? So, they're old. So, I'm not saying you are, but the in plant water plant age, they are old and

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they're nearing the end of their service life. In order to keep those running, they they have to be renewed. And there is good news on that because you don't want to come into a situation and have to remove POS in a brand new plant that you just spent a lot of money to build. These things have served the community

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well and they've lived out their life. So now is a good time to move to a more efficient process that not only addresses your your you know short-term needs but also your long-term um softening, right? The the water is pretty hard here, right? It's it's it's

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it's up there on the scale of hardness and our our we need to provide a a a softer water to the community to uh improve that product delivery. Right. Poss uh removal is needed. Uh big news

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on that today. The the uh deadline got pushed out, but it really hasn't changed anything or the timing of what we need to do. it's taken a little bit of pressure off us, but I don't think that um we're really slowing down with the effort to not only renew the plant, but also to remove the POS. And so there's

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there's work to be done that to to meet that 2031 deadline. And there's no real taking your foot off the gas at this point. Um and lastly, uh when we when we treat this, we're going to end up with a concentrated stream of POS, and we need to handle that in a in a sustainable

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manner and deal with that. The the graphic at the bottom shows a little bit of the process that went on for the master plan and there was a lot of work that went into that, but we're going to get to those three conclusions really quick. Conclusion number one, the White Way is 40 plus that's one of your water

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treatment plants is 40 plus years old. It there's substantial rehabilitation needed. We've toured the plant. We walked all through it. We've there's electrical needs, there's structural needs, there's um there's treatment needs. So it it has it has major needs and it water is a critical u service and

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you really can't take the risk of of operating a plant that's near the end of its life, you know, when you're when you're dealing with a critical service, right? You wouldn't send your fireman out in a in a you know 40-year-old fire truck, right? To to put out the fire. So um same with water. um just not even

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considering PAS or softening uh that the Whiteway plant needs $30 million to get it back up to speed, right? So that that's what's needed, not even thinking about POS. And so same with Sunnyale, that is a 30-year-old facility. And u

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we've chosen to uh efficiently convert that to a booster station so that we don't have to upgrade that treatment process too. The consolidation of the treatment into the Sunningdale uh from the Sunningale facility to the Whiteway facility provides you a little bit of a

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lot of operational efficiency and it's going to make it uh less costly for the and and minimize those rate impacts. Uh a little bit of graphic here. What you see is a 3D rendering some of our folks did of of your existing plant and we we

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colorcoded the scoring on the um the treatment facility. This is the white way plant on the left and red is it's about to fall down, right? So red is a critical, you know, need that that process is is at the end of its life and followed up with the filtration that's right behind it, right? So you see that

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and on the right is a little what we call a um a deterioration curve. It's like any asset. They deteriorate over time, right? Like your I don't know your tennis courts, right? So you need to you need to paint those tennis courts. you

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need to uh resurface them occasionally. So, you have to spend money to get it back up to to serviceability. And fortunately for you, we we've uh we're at a point where it really makes good sense and it's a good time to spend that money and and improve those plants. So,

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this this is this is it's it's not a it's not great news, but it is good news the situation you're in, right? We're starting from with a with a blank canvas and we can improve that plant uh uh to you know up to um you know a state-of-the-art treatment level. All

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right. So we go to the second head of the of the challenge and that is u POS right and and what do we need to treat? Um so the um we have we exceed the POS and it's um it's a it's not only

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a a city of temple terrace problem. It's a regional problem. It's it's a national problem. It's a global problem. Right? We're in the same boat. I had a in the in the report there's a there's a map from UF Health that shows the proliferation of POS in the state of Florida's groundwater that we drink,

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right? It's it's ubiquitous, right? Every every urban center is is loaded, not loaded, but has POS in it. And and that's that's the situation we're in, right? We're not as bad as some of the other folks. We're in the low parts per

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trillion. Um there, you know, people that live near a Mohawk carpet, Banebridge, Georgia, they're in the thousands and tens of thousands of parts per trillion. They're, you know, they're really up the creek. We have a a little bit of POS that we got to get out. It's not It's not a major catastrophe. It's

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not a major health issue yet, but it's something that the EPA has said we have to address. Um let's go. We also have hardness. um your your water is considered very hard and I'm sure the citizens know that and probably most of them have have

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softeners as we talked about last August and and we have a chance now to improve that citywide and so we city and our sta their staff have set a a goal of less than 150 uh parts per million of hardness calcium and magnesium and

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that'll make the water uh you know very high quality and and easy to um you know wash your clothes and take showers and things like that. So, that will um pretty much take away the need for softeners, uh home softeners as well. We have future contaminants to worry about,

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uh more microlastics, um uh pharmaceuticals, those things that the EPA is looking at coming down the pike. So, the city staff wanted to make sure that whatever we choose to do that we can address those future uh contaminants coming down the pike as well.

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Um when we talked there's a there's a few uh processes that remove POS some of them one's called granular activated carbon one's called ion exchange those are the those are the lower cost easier

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uh ones and unfortunately uh we did pilot testing at the plant on your water we also did it in a laboratory and those easier lower ones did not remove as much POS as we wanted to and It it also made it costly because you had to regenerate

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the carbon in the iron exchange, throw it out and regenerate it far too often. So that made the operational cost high. But the other thing is those processes don't soften. So um a lime softening uh

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uh let's say a a lime softening does not remove POS. And in this case, we identified a membrane process that actually does the softening and removes the POS. Right? So you when we did the cost and you can see them up on the side

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there uh in in the lower table just to rehab your your plant with lime, no POS removal would cost $36 million. And that's the the bottom right table. If we put in a nano filtration plant

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that can soften and remove POS, that's actually a similar cost. It's a little bit higher operationally. And you can see at the bottom line, uh, you know, the just just the lime softening would cost you two bucks a,000 gallon. The nano filtration cost you 225. For a

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small increment more, you get the POS removal also. So from that standpoint, when we had to remove both of them, it it almost became a no-brainer that nanoiltration is was the way to go. And nanopiltration is a membrane process. They call it membrane softening. It's proven

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technology up and down the coast of Florida. It's used widely and um it's it's a it's a good fit for your surf source water. So the you know, we took a route to get there. We tried the lower cost things first, right? We wanted to get keep rates low and they just didn't

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work well enough. And good thing we've got something that killed two birds with one stone, right? And kept the cost at at something that's uh reasonable. Let's say none of these costs are reasonable. I'm going to admit that. But compared to

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trying to do both and and it's going to save us money. So, and produce a water that um meets not only current regulations but also future. up in the righth hand table you can see the comparison of the GAC and the ion exchange and yes so they all three of

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those remove POS um GAC and ion exchange do not remove hardness right so okay well they removed one but not both nanoiltration removes both uh the future contaminant limited on the GAC limited on the ion exchange

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uh the nanoiltration high the other thing is these membranes are customdesigned and the membrane manufacturers are are working on different uh molecular designs that that remove POS and only some of the hardness. So the the bottom

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line is you can change out membranes and change your your treatment process without having to you know uh major cost of infrastructure. So it's a flexible process that you can in the future put tighter membranes in or looser membranes should the need occur. So um and and

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lastly um long-term flexibility that I just mentioned that and sustainability you know it it led us to to a an easy conclusion that nanopiltration is the is the way to go for the city. Oops. All right. I went too far there.

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Okay. There we go. All right. Just a as a check, right? And everyone asked for this and this is our due diligence and credit to your staff that went and met with the city of Tampa and Hillsboro County on hey, can we connect to your water systems and avoid uh a major cost

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uh and and use your water? Well, you know, they have PAS too, right? And um there's a major capital cost to get their water from them to us and it's something in the 30 to $40 million range which would be the cost of a new plant,

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right? And that would give you you know that would give you uh complex inter agency and disinfectant changes. You'd be changing from free chlorine to chloromines which is a big big problem and a lot of hassle for your to to maintain that. nitrif

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nitrification is something that occurs in chloramine systems and you you really don't want to deal with that. Um we have we mentioned the substantial infrastructure costs and um the bulk just the bulk purchase cost is $4 a,000

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gallon and we just looked at that we can treat the water for 225 a,000 gallon. Right? So you you this is from the running the numbers connecting to the the neighboring utilities is is the costliest alternative. It it is the

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highest cost option and it also gives you uh a potential for a higher cost in the future that you may not have full control of. So at that point, you know, I I certainly did their due diligence and we evaluated the the results and it's a decision we we we checked. Now,

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if I flip back up to the top, and this occurred at the um the public meeting, there was a engineer that lives in your city, and she's a a very smart engineer and and stated that why don't we go to a a well field that does not have POS,

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right? We can find some uh POS free water somewhere, right? So, um as she mentioned, USGS did a study and there's um there's some monitoring wells that go a little bit deeper than yours. And so we want to look at those in the future going forward. And we also proposed an

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exploratory well to test deeper into the aquifer even than the monitoring wells go and to look for uh cleaner POS free water. That's worth a try, right? And we also need some additional supply if we're going to consolidate the treatment at at Whiteway. So, uh, that's something

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that we we did recommend and, uh, I think it's something that would be worthwhile and if if not, we can repurpose that well for something else. So, um, there's that's one of the recommendations of the report and and that is that falls in the category of

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non-treatment, but if you go deeper, you may actually need to treat that water too, right? So it's, you know, it's a you may find no POS, but you might find high iron, high sulfide, high hardness again, and you you'll have to soften that water as well. So go you there's no

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panacea here going to a a crystal clear water that um that you know may or may not exist, but it's worth a check. Um let's go on to the next one. All right, we're at conclusion number three. Good thing we didn't do the 40

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slide idea. um POS destruction, right? You when you concentrate uh the water with the nanopiltration or the reverse osmosis pro uh process, you create a concentrated stream that's loaded with calcium because you took it out of the

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water and POS, right? So you have a stream of water that's that's high in both of those. And occasionally those will get treated as hazardous waste. And most every um membrane softening or RO treatment plant up and down the coast of Florida has a

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deep injection well. So that's one option. Um we we um went with your staff to visit two of our plants nearby, city of Clearwater and Vero Beach. I kind of consider that a sister city to you, but both of those have deep well deep injection wells.

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Now there are other options and there is some emerging destruction technologies right that are coming out of the gate that haven't gone to fullcale applications on a municipal system and really as engineers we can't use something that that's not been proven

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full scale. So that's that's but we are monitoring those and looking on the board we even talk with some of the vendors and occas down the down the road we'll probably send some of your water concentrated up to some of those vendors to see if they can have uh luck

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destroying those and those processes uh read like a you know a sci-fi technology. They they use sound, you know, sonolyis to to blast apart. Um a 2,000 degree furnace to that's that's the way to break this POS apart, right?

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That's how tough it is. Uh they use um photochemical oxidation, things like that that that you know to to destroy and blow those apart. There's the technolog is evolving and there's uh hopefully in in two years we'll have something a silver bullet that we can

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move forward with and maybe we'll even avoid going to the the deep well but that's not that doesn't exist yet and we need a plan that we can move forward with and that plan is proven it's it's what every other membrane softening and RO plant in the state of Florida does right so uh Steuart just just built one

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the city of Stewart so just a little cost comparison you can see um a deep injection well in the in the table there is is pretty expensive up in the $25 million range. And um if we boil that down to cost per thousand gallons, that

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comes out about 73 cents a thousand gallons. So that's that's a a big ticket. But if you look at the the Aquus electrostatic concentrator, right, which is sort of a proven technology at this point, they have a couple applications. That's $1.94 per thousand gallon, right?

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So it's it it works, but it's way more expensive, right? There's another one that um has a 1 MGD plant, 1 million gallon a day plant up in Kerry, North Carolina on an industrial site. They they do foam fractionation and and a type of destruction. You know, that one is more in the range that we're looking

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for, right? Made 25 cents, a third of the cost of a deep well, right? And and potentially we could reuse the water in the future, but that's just that it's just not there yet, right? And so that we went with the proven plan and and um the proven technology to move forward with from this master plan. We'll be

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taking this master plan and moving into you know design and implementation. But the again the mission of this was to set out a budget for for you guys to move forward and and identify how much it costs so your rate folks can um you know work the numbers from there. All right.

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Uh you know we talked about the the current condition of the plants and and there are both plants do comply but they are not capable of of meeting the um the PAS and the and the softening at this moment. They they just cannot they just

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cannot cut that and the risk is is too high to continue to operate those plants going forward for too much longer. So that that's that's the situation and it's a great again it's great timing but it it more than POS the the risk at the plants may be the driver that pushes you

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forward faster you know so the the it's not a oh we're okay take the foot off the gas. It is a critical uh it's a critical service and it should be treated as such. All right, we're going to get into the bad news, which is the the estimated capital cost. And capital

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cost, they include the equipment. They include um the contractor who installs the equipment. They in include the taxes, the the insurance, the bonding, the the surveying, the design, you know, the um everything that's needed to put

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that project together. Contingency. We want to have a little bit of contingency in there so that we, you know, understand those. Frankly, what's happened in the last six or eight months has probably even pushed costs higher than than you know what we're what we're you know seeing here. So um what we're looking at we divided

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your um your plan into four projects. We call them project A, B, C, and D. And we've got some priority uh a priority repair at the plant that we just is a is a critical thing item that needs to be addressed now. And so that's a small item and that's easy to do. Um, project

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B is the exploratory well and and that has the um we're also pushing up against our water use permit. So, we've got to negotiate with the uh water management district to increase that water use permit because we're going to need some extra water uh nanopiltration and

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membrane processes. They work on a recovery rate from 80 to 90%. So, that means every 100 gallons you push through there, you get 90 gallons of product out. So, we're going to lose maybe 5 to 10 to 15% of our water and we need to

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account for that in our water use permit with the district. So, that's a that's on the list. And um project C is the electrical upgrades for the treatment plants. Um those were in uh I'm going to say dire shape. I'm not I don't want to use the word dire, but they're they're

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just old equipment and there's some motor control centers that should they fail, the lead time to get a new motor control center is one year, right? you could order one right now and one year later you'd have it. And so you'd have to have some folks out there manually operating the plant to keep the plant

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running. And that's a big risk right there. So that that's something that that we want to move forward with because um I don't know. I I used to work construction, right? And the first folks that come through are the electrical uh uh when you're building a building, they come through and set the boxes, they set the wires and all that.

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So you send your electrical team out there first. He they set the electrical system up the the plant. We want to look at potentially a second feed uh from Tiko to um increase some reliability and a loop around the plant and create a system that that um will serve you going

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ahead 40 years that that the staff keeps the staff safe. Remember the the the young ladies uh uh their priority was safety. Electrical is a big safety issue. Um the last uh the last project is the white way nanopiltration and the

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concentrate management with within which in this case we've we've put in deep deep injection well and um that's the the way to move forward. So you can see um you know hopefully things come in a little lower than this but we're looking at about $66 million of capital cost for

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for Whiteway and and and5 or 6 million for Sunningdale just to keep that operating and and convert it to a a booster in the future and you're looking at a total of about $72 million of capital cost. Now, um, from a schedule standpoint, we've got a little bit of

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leniency on the 2031, but again, I that's one driver. I think the other driver is to is to get the plant renewed, you know, and one of the things that we did look at was some interim treatment uh tasks that we could put in to bridge that gap between now and when

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we build a a new treatment plant. So those items uh you know could span from a temporary uh granular activated carbon columns. We could fasttrack a nanopiltration skid. We could um do a few other things that that would help

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bridge that gap. But the the the lesson here is those nanopiltration skids probably are a year to build those as well. So and the equipment and the electronics on that as well. So the the the thing is those those items also take

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time. So uh there is no quick quick fix on this the and one of the things the idea that come up was uh let's let's fix our lime softening uh structure out there and let's get it by softening and we it's that's throwing good money after

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bad. Uh so that that thing is in such bad shape. It's much better plan to put your money into a new technology and something that will get both cover both those things and trying to band-aid or patch up something that's just you know absolutely near near the end of its life. So um uh and again it is a it is a

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opportune time to to come in there and we we've looked at cost savings items like using the existing building. We just were out at the plant today and we think that's got a nice the one that the staff is moving from from that building to the to the new building up front. We

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potentially think that that building could be used and and save some capital costs. We also uh want to reuse some of the pump stations uh uh and some of the guts and and wells around there that that we can um you know fit this nano filtration in pretty seamlessly into your plant. So there's there's items

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we're working on to save costs and those will be flushed out better in the um in the coming implementation phases. All right, enough of the bad news. All right, so what we called it is a is a water treatment renewal plan because these plants do need renewal. They need

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renewed infrastructure. They need re renewed electrical and they need renewed treatment that will meet those those goals that the city has set for themselves. So on the on the right side uh in the middle there is a is a view of what we we plan to do at Whiteway and

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that involves adding the nanopiltration uh systems in and uh potentially some concentrate management um and storage components that will help further concentrate that and send it to its final destination. Uh looking at the

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schedule, um the things that we really need to start on now are electrical renewal, um SCADA. We need to get those motor control centers uh ordered, you know, and laid out, ordered so that in a year we can get new ones and ready to go. And while we're at it, we're going

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to set the new electrical up for the new plant, right? It's a it's just like in construction, the electrical folks are going to come through. That's going to save you money because nowadays general contractors are are um are in high demand and they're and they're charging high markups on subcontractors, right?

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And an electrical if we hire them directly as a separate project that'll probably save you 10 to 20% of cost right there by by hiring a direct contractor. Um reliability that we've mentioned that we need to get a valve fixed at the plant so that we can increase the

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capacity. the uh next year we're going to be focused on implementing the the nano filtration. We're going to be modernizing the plant and we're going to be uh really diving into the concentrate management. If if where would we put a deep well, you know, if if we're going

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to put one of those, we're pretty uh uh we've got a really good hydro geologic uh subconsultant that's that's um already spoken with the city, not under contract, but that's that's ready to get moving on this soon. We there needs to be talks with the the district and we

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need to get those items moving. Um, Sunningale in in 2028 um that that will begin its its renewal and its transition to to just becoming a booster station instead of a a water plant. But we need to keep all that online until the plant

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is fully fully up and running. the new plant at Whiteway. Um, from a future capacity standpoint, we if we retire Sunnydale, it puts us in a little bit of a jam. So, we've got to increase the capacity at Whiteway to make up for that. And that's going to cost a little

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bit of money as well. that's in baked in the plan. But um I think it's it's well worth it and it's well worth the efficiency of having the treatment in one place and having the concentrate without having to ship the concentrate across the city to a you know a common uh management site.

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And from there, 2028, 29, 30, uh, construction, you know, we'll we'll get moving and you'll have a brand new, uh, state-of-the-art treatment plant that can handle whatever is coming at you. So, that is that is the uh the

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recommended renewal plan. Um that is not all we have because we understand um that that you know this is a big cost and a big hit and there is funding available and so part of our report identified some of the funding avenues

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um we've also got others in the fire and um that that we're going to be going after and it's it's going to involve potentially um state and federal appropriations through legislation and um we're we're highly skilled at that as

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as well as your your rate folks and um some of the other financial folks that work with your public works department. So that that is our our really our you know our next task is to find money. Uh the gentleman said it himself, right? You know we shouldn't be paying for this

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if somebody else polluted our water, right? So you know we need to we need to go out there and we are going to pay for it but we're going to try to minimize the amount we pay for. So, in that that some of that everybody else is racing for the same deadline and the sooner we

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can get to those funding uh allocations uh locked in, you know, the the the the better off we'll be from a rate impact standpoint. So, that that's all I had for you today. And I just want to say um a credit to your your public works staff because they were they were really

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partners with us. that whenever I do a master plan, and I've done a lot of them, it's not my plan, it's yours. So, that's what we tried to make this. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Telton. So, we're going to open it up for public comments. I

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currently only have one request, but I'm assuming there'll be more in. Let me just explain to everybody how this goes. We'll open it up for public comments. Uh, just like the previous public comment section, everybody gets three minutes per speaker. We do ask like before that you come to the podium,

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state your name and city of residence. You guys will jot down the questions. It won't be one person comes up ask a question and they answer it and then the next we we'd be here all all week. So we'll jot down the questions. All right. After public comment is done, then the

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council members will ask their questions. All right. and then the uh presenter or our staff or whoever is relevant will get back up and try to respond to the questions and comments to make sure everybody has their questions answered as well as the council member

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questions. Um and then the council may have some discussion uh at that point. But that's council discussion. That's not community discussion. That's at the town hall. So, okay. So, at this point um there are the forms at the back of the room. You don't I have to but right

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now all I have is one and that's from Chris Barkin. Mr. Barkin, >> thank you. >> Chris Barkwin, I've lived in Temple Terrace for 40 years this October. First 18 were in Raintree where we have Tampa water or have Tampa water which has much

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lower PAS levels. It's not as hard. Moved across the street. 22 years later, we got a water problem. When I came in here this evening, I was initially going to talk about the water softening. And in reading the report, it appears like we haven't had water softening in

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the city of Temple Terrace in almost two years. I kind of blame that on deferred maintenance, no maintenance at all. And then I started thinking about the problem from the 10,000 foot level. You got two primary people on this project. That gentleman right there and this one

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right here. They can't be running around chasing low-hanging fruit that comes from assignments and expect them to take care of this. This is the critical project in Temple Terrace right now. It's not a police and fire station out on Harney. It's nothing else but this.

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This is critical. In the report, the gentleman cited the 72.6 million, but that didn't include the 20 to 25 million for the deep well. So, are we dealing with 72 or 95 or 97? And then in another portion of the report, they cite 125

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million with 88 for White and 37 for Sunnydale. So that needs to be cleared up. The big question I've got is this. The city knew of this. At least someone in the city knew of this back in 2024. Here we are in 2026. We're still

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drinking the same water. We're going to go to 2029, 2030, or maybe 2031 before anything actually gets done in treating this stuff. The closer you get to 2031, the supply chain problems are going to grow and that lead time that might have been a one year or two years to get some

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equipment in there is going to double and the prices are going to go through the roof. I asked at the town hall meeting last August about interim mitigation methods that could be done. The consultant said, "Oh, the lead times were horrendous." And then I gave him the name of a company in Kansas that had two weeks

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lead time to get PLA uh P uh trailer mounted units that could handle 5 MGD. And he said, "Oh yeah, that's correct. I think we need to look at some interim measures right now because people can't be drinking this water which is identified in their own report as possible cancer causing for the next

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five years. Thank you. Mr. Lo, >> uh, >> Charles Lope Terrace Park. Can I ask you have just two questions? Uh, number one, uh, is this going to be all this information going to be online available to the public before next week. Uh, so

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they can read it and all. In other words, both 13A and 13B. And the second question, I admit I'm a little confused when looking at the $72 million figure that you're all talking about. I'm not sure if that includes just the uh just

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the water treatment plants or if that includes the water treatment plants and the PAS as well. Thank you. >> Are there other members of the public who wish to comment? >> Okay, council members questions.

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Okay. So I I I have a couple of questions and one is my understanding is that the temple terrace area we have no direct contaminant. We don't have a specific poller. It's basically the PAS

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POS are in the rainwater at this point. So they filter down into the aquafer and is that what makes dropping the wells deeper less potentially cost effective? Not instead of spending expending that

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money um to drop the wells deeper, we should just go ahead and plan on treating the water with the current depth of the wells. Oh, good question. And and that that is the so if we found POSFree water, right,

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it still might need some treatment in other categories and we still might end up um spending the same amount of money money. One single supply well is in the 5 to7 million range. So you just think one supply well that's that's5 to7

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million you just spent, right? in in in hopes of what you're going to get. Conversely, your existing wells are are pretty much a good nanoiltration feed. They do have POS, but they're low

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in um turbidity. They're low in hydrogen sulfide. They're low in iron, and they're they're low in the things that would foul up membranes. So, they actually make a really good and they're fresh. There's no salt in them. When we go deeper, we're going to hit some salt.

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We know that already. we we did clear water wells and so um that that's that that is an option to just go ahead and treat the wells that you have. We do think one exploratory well is worthwhile and if we do that we think we can get

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that funded under the um under the district and the FD's alternative water supply funding grant. So if we could get that funded and and not have to pay for it, we we think we could get that for, you know, pennies on the dollar. So that that that is worthwhile to see what else

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is down there. And um uh if it doesn't pan out as a supply well, it potentially would set up for your deep well. So it would be the first leg of your deep well. So that's where we would not waste the money doing that, but we would we would do it in a way that if that well

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did not work out, we could use it for a deep injection well. >> Okay. So, um, you talked about needing to increase capacity at the Whiteway treatment plant if Sunnyside becomes the the booster as your recommendation.

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>> Is there right now there are wells that feed Sunnyside? Is there not a way to use those wells versus adding capacity to the current wells that we have feeding White Way? >> There is. And but what it would take is um your two your wells are your well

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fields are like this. So in order to get Sunningdale wells over to Whiteway, we'd need a pipe to go over there. And that pipe might be two or two or $3 million as well. So there's it's not free to get it over there. So the the thought was,

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hey, let's look at at a well near White to avoid that cost and and potentially find a better source. So that that that's a a question that you know um uh we weighed heavily and we didn't

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recommend this uh lightly and we we do think again that we could get funding for this. We're going to call it an alternative water supply well. You know, Tampa Bay Water came about because they don't want any more fresh well freshwater wells, right? So the district is going to say, "Yeah, you can drill a new well, but you're going to go down to

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the lower Florida and into the salty water." and we're going to, oh, you know, okay, we could potentially switch some of our wells over to another side, but then again, you it might be cheaper just to run the pipe over just like you you proposed. So, those are some details that are going to get worked out in implementation in the design. But, um,

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we think the recommendation is is good and firm. And if we can get that funding and move forward and get a well drilled for, uh, for, uh, you know, uh, as part of an alternative water supply grant, then we um, we we feel like we know

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what's down there and we would have addressed that concern. Maybe we do find, you know, the panacea of clean water down there, you know, but that's a possibility. So, as well the the existing um uh monitoring wells in the city that the USGS did back in the day,

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th those are potentially that's pretty cheap to go sample those wells and flush them out and pull and to see what's down there. That'll give us a better idea as well. So, we we've talked this through with probably the best hydro geologists in the state and we think the plan is is is good and and um I think it's it's uh

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it's something that's in the city's best interest. your the alternative is always on the table, right? To to pull those Sunningale wells over to to Whiteway, that that's on the table and during design or we don't get the grant and it's lower cost to just pull those Sunningale wells over to Whiteway, then

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then that, you know, that's a that's a that's a good option. >> Okay. And then um I have a couple questions about the actual Whiteway treatment plant and that is is that site large enough to handle being the only

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treatment plant for the full city and uh potentially future growth. >> Oh, sure. And that uh the site is in is um it is big enough. That's the answer. And the the beneficial thing about

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nanoiltration, it's relatively compact as far as a treatment system is concerned, right? It it's much smaller than your lime softening plant, right? And and we're going to be demolishing that lime softening plant, so we'll have more room as well, and you probably get some good scrap metal money out of that.

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But um so from the capacity standpoint um uh we we feel that it it it's better to have it at one plant and um we feel that you do have enough room there. Here's

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the here's the details of it. There's a single one single 16inch pipe running through Whiteway, right? That that runs through the plant and it has a capacity of 5.0 O million gallon per day, right? We we can't get any more out of that

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16inch plant. But luckily for us, all all good treatment plants have two trains, right? You don't want to rely on one single point of failure. And right now, Whiteway has a big single point of failure, that one 16inch pipe. So the plan is and this was uh you know suggested at the behest of one of the

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city staff. We want two trains that go through them and we're going to lay a parallel 16 through the entire plant so that we can leave the existing plant running, put the new pipe in and have the two trains that give us potentially six and even higher. You know uh in

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theory you could get 10 MGD out of that, you know, but you you probably wouldn't push it that far. So you you could go up in capacity and membranes are modular. So if we leave space in a building to put another module of membranes in, then that's what you do when you size your header pipe for the future. So that

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that'll be decisions that you know that are made based on you know the capacity that you actually need. >> Okay. So then my my last question has to do with the cost. >> Yes. >> And I know that there were multiple recommendations. I mean the the report was 218 pages. So, I know that there

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were multiple recommendations, but ultimately the one you presented tonight was the number one choice being at least in the in your recommendation to be cost-effective and handle the the needs.

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Um, so that 72 million, would that provide all of the cost at least as we know today based on today's estimation to uh renew the plant because it's at the end of its life, but also to meet the

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needs for the PAS uh remediation as well. Is that the 72 million the full encompassing cost for the full project? It it does. The only other cost that's out there is you're going to increase your operation and

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maintenance cost. And just to answer the other yours and the other gentleman's question in the 72 million, there's a line item for 26 million that says concentrate management and that is the deep injection well. So we labeled as as such because it may give us some

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flexibility to find a a lower cost in the future. So but that is the actual cost for deep well. um uh gentleman here just we we just put one of those in in Stewart, Florida, a deep well. We know exactly what they cost, right? So um and

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you know there So from that standpoint um your second question again? Well, what I I just wanted to make sure that when we were looking at that price that that was encompassing the entirety of the project, not that there wouldn't be

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>> I understand it's an estimate based on today's construction cost, but I'm talking about just the expectation >> that covers everything. And the last point, the the number that was in the um the funding document in the appendix, that was a present worth value that did cover all the additional O andM that

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would occur over the life of the plant. So that's why that was put in there because you know that those are those are costs that the city will have to bear through rateayers. So from that standpoint we the our sub our funding sub consultant put that number that was

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the present worth which is your capital cost plus your uh your your annual cost smashed up into the present. So that that's a a summary of all the costs both capital and operating. The $72 million

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is the capital cost. the 120 something number in the back. That's a that's a present worth value that does include the additional um operation cost for the nano filtration. So it what happens it's it's got a little higher pressure than what you're running now and you have to

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replace the membranes every so often. you have to clean them, things like that. And it's just a a it has a little higher operations cost than than a lime softening, but it removes POS, right? So, you know, you you get that benefit and you're you're still going to have to

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pay for it through the um through the operating cost as well. So, um I hope that answers the question, >> mayor. Yeah, thank you, mayor. Okay, I have a couple. So other than having two trains in the plant, what else do you

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plan to do to keep our service going during these couple years of renovating that plant? >> Uh, all right. So there we did look at other options and and the gentleman's right. We could bring skids out there to

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to um um to to treat the POS, but what with facing $72 million, the the better way to do it is expedite the the addition of the nanoiltration. Your plant is is ready to add that in, but

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first off, we got to get the electrical taken care of, the bubble. Um we thought about putting some uh granularly activated carbon in your filters, right? so that we could we could run through there and remove a little bit more PAS, but that does nothing for the hardness, right? So that you know and and the

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decision to not put a dollar into the to the um lime softening process is is a good one. We we we could, but that's that's money that you're not going to get back. and you're you're much better served by accelerating the the

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implementation of this this more robust process into your system. It's it's not like we have to go out there and build a giant tank or or uh you know or giant pipes. We we've got a building that we can potentially fit this in ready to go. We've got a pump station that we can

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modify to get this in. So there's there's ways to expedite this um you know going forward that that don't waste the taxpayers and the rateayers money, right? So we do we don't want to do that. We're facing a a major capital,

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you know, um uh uh mountain that we have to climb and we need to put our capital towards the solution, right? Not a not a band-aid that's going to uh you know uh let's say not work

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very well. So that getting the lime softening unit back up and running would take3 to4 million. We had the we had the um manufacturer of the lime softening come out there and give us estimates on how to get that back running. Right. We we tried everything. We tried all the

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low we we tried to pull all of the lowhanging fruit. So from that standpoint that there are um there are ways to handle this, but the the best way is to move this forward as rapidly as you can. put the money that you would you would uh pay towards uh um you know

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a mobile treatment unit into expediting the the the electrical get this plant safe to even operate for your operators and move forward with this nanopiltration you know addition. So, >> okay, thank you. Um, got three more. Um,

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with this system, how many how much more PAS from the wells will this handle? You mentioned that we could keep going up, double, triple, 10 times. I mean, when would we come to the end of this if the groundwater keeps getting worse over time?

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>> Yeah. And and the through the project, we we haven't seen the POS increase too much. the the hardness has increased in the last uh 3 to four years. And um somebody asked the question of of your your wells, right? Your your your wells are relatively shallow and they are

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under the influence of surface water, meaning the Hillsboro River. So it it they they're under not only other groundwater flow, they're also under the influence of the Hillsboro River. It's a the the USGS study said it's takes 10 years to get from the river to your

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wells. And that's a lightning fast time in in well, you know, well age, you know, usually it takes a hundred years, a thousand years to get from a river to a well, right? You know, so but this takes 10 years. And I don't know if the Posis, you know, where it's coming from

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that that's, you know, at at this point, if you look at that UF Health map, it's it's it's everywhere, right? Is it's, you know, and we're we're facing it. And the thing we have to do is circle the wagons and get it out of our water. to answer your question. Um, we we're we're

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we're pretty certain that we could handle what what increases would come our way in the in the next 40 years. Let's say that. So, you know, unless there's something that happened that, you know, we don't know about, but um even that said, there

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there's ways to handle that too. So, it it if if that the nanopiltration is the most flexible way to handle this, right? So we can change the membrane out if the if the water quality changes and in fact Clear Water had to do that after a certain amount of time. Their water

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quality changed really rapidly and we had to adjust their membrane um uh types and pressures to adjust for that changing water and that's down in the lower Florida. So even you know even the lower Florida aquifer can change rapidly. So this is the this is the

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process that can handle that has the flexibility to handle future water quality changes. Okay, two more. One, u with Sunnydale closing and and everything going out of Whiteway, do we have the infrastructure, distribution infrastructure to get the

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water out of of the plant to the neighborhoods? >> That that's one of our um first missions and recommendations in this report is to take a quick look at that. One of the things uh we need to do is uh see whether we've got to get the water from

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White Way to the storage tank, right? the the the both of them, China Barry and Telecom, right? The you have storage tanks out in your distribution that function. Currently, uh Sunningale functions as a peaking facility, right? So, we've got a little constriction at

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Whiteway at the moment and that's that priority project to get rid of that constriction. So, once that constriction is is away, we can get the full 4 MGD, 5 MGD capacity out of White and and we're we're we'll just have to crunch those numbers. That is a minor engineering

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study that needs to be performed to confirm that. >> Okay. Thank you. And the last one I think is for staff and you may not know it off top of your head, but if this uh with this project, are there any projects that are currently on our five-year capital plan uh that would

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come out like in rewiring an area or something? You don't have to answer now, but that's a question I would have. Yeah, you you're talking rewiring electrical. >> Well, I don't know if I there may be rewiring of the plant in his in year

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five of our long range plan that I don't know about or anything. I'm just saying is there something that's included in this project that we may have already in our plan that we can remove. >> So, I I think the uh this plan as you you can hopefully see tonight is is

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pretty comprehensive. Uh we will Jason and I will talk as to whether there's anything else in terms of the entire water utility that we'll we may have to move to which we do every year. I mean the council knows when we come with a capital project. We move projects around depending on the circumstances that given year. Um so we'll we'll get back

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to the council on that. >> Thank you. That's it. Mr. Mayor Bloomer. >> Thank you mayor. Um I got a couple questions. First confused. We're going to basically shut down Sunnydale. Correct. >> We're going to convert it to a booster pump station. So, it's going to take

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water from White White White and boost it down the road to the to the nearest storage tank. Right? So, it will convert from a water plant where it has wells to a something that that h boosts up pressure out to your distribution system to provide pressure service.

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>> So, we're to cap the wells that feed Sunnydale. >> Well, that and that's that's dependent on if we need the wells or not. So, yeah. So, that that's >> okay. Well, so either way, if we cap the wells, that's fine. But if we don't cap the wells and we need that for additional volume, then we're going to

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still have to run pipe from Sunnydale Wells, you know, that location, right, over to Whiteway. Yep. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. Then what would be wrong with just taking the the pumps that are there and forcing that into um into the uh into

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the Whiteway plant. Okay. And that way we don't have to go back to to Swift Mud for additional pumping capacity through Whiteway. Uh, so using the Sunningale pumps to pump back to Whiteway. >> Yeah. >> Well, water. >> Well, well water before, you know, to be

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treated at I mean, if we're if the if we're going to keep it there, we still have to have pipes that's going to take it from White to Sunnydale to China or whatever. >> Sunningale doesn't have treatment that that that understood. >> You're right. So, so, but yes, if you if

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you extended a pipe from the from you could you could potentially use the um existing well pumps to get over to Whiteway, but you would need a pipe to get there. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. That's that's I'm a little confused of how that how that logistically is going to work, but that's that's something we could discuss further.

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>> So, that's the raw water going there and then we need the finished water coming back, right? So, you got >> Correct. You know, I mean, so I mean, but if if it's a booster pump, we're still going to have to have the finish water coming from Whiteway to Sunnydale and then Sunnydale its natural uh

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network out to the to the other areas. Correct. Correct. Okay. So, we're still going to have some kind of a pipe there. Yes. Okay. Um I I I didn't get that from from reading here, but I may have missed that. Interim the interim PAS, we have residents who are very concerned about it.

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How could it logistically be integrated into what we've got now in existence while we're working on the new trains and so forth to help mitigate the PAS levels? >> Well, we as the gentleman spoke to earlier, you could bring in and other utilities are doing this. You could

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bring in uh you could rent vessels, carbon vessels to um to um uh temporarily remove the POS. The thing that we found with the uh carbon is that you have some of the smaller chain pauses as well as the larger famous

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chains. So carbon doesn't remove those as well as nanopiltration does. So you would get you would get the the big chains out there. You might still be left with a few of the smaller chains. So >> the skids are nano. >> Uh no well >> skids are skids are carbon. >> Yeah. Yeah. if you the emergency skids

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you we we also tried to look at and we talked to the Violia because it's their filters about loading up and and the carbon folks because we know them well. We have we have multiple carbon GAC plants uh in central Florida that we designed in the last 10 to 15 years. So we have multiple plants operating and we

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know the carbon folks well. But um we also tried to load it into your filters to see if we could uh temporarily treat it that way and that might still be on the table, right? So there's something that we could do there. But they they didn't they didn't come up with a very good plan to do it right. So that and

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there's there's depth issues. There's hydraulic issues in your existing filter. There's backwash issues in your existing filter. It's yellow, right? I mean it's it's so it's you you'd have to spend some money to get those filters fully functional from a you know backwashing and and um you know uh

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conversion standpoint. But certainly you could rent vessels and get them out there and and you could provide POS treatment. wouldn't do a thing for the hardness and and you know so there there we go >> I just want to because I understood that I was under the impression that potentially the skids of the interim

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skids would be of the nanoiltration >> right and and that that's what we would propose is move forward with the nano skids sorry what I'm saying the emergency skids the interim skids right would be nanotech would potentially be nanotech the nano filtration technology

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which would take care of the hardness and the other in the interim Okay, because the hardness of the water has increased >> sub substantially through the last couple three years and I've seen what comes out of the lost monitor. I've seen what comes out

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of the uh water water heaters that uh from just you know in a six-month period. >> And here's the kicker. If you put in the nano, you need the deep well. >> Understood. >> So, you know, so so that that's we we need to get move forward on both of those. >> Okay. And and I think you may have answered one of my questions was how

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much sludge how much gunk is going to be created by these. And I got the I got the impression that you were we're going to lose a million a million gallons a day in sludge. Is that what is that what we're saying? >> It's not it's not really sludge. It's

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concentrate. So >> lack of a better word. Okay. You're going to have the heart and the calcium. You have the PAS chemicals. Plus, there's going to have to be the water that that you have to force it through. But it's could it be a lot more than what just it be just just PAS?

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>> Um there's it would be high in calcium, maybe some high sulfate, but I I don't think there's anything else in there that that would um >> would would be uh and I'd have to check. I'd have to check, but that the in certain cases um concentrate can be considered a hazardous waste. And that's

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why most utilities and most nano and RO plants do deep well it right but they have other things like salt so it come out with very salty water. So >> I just curious how much how much of this concentrator are going to be created. >> Okay so if the recovery is let's it

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typical is 85 we we've got projections we think we can get to 90. So for every 100 gallons that of the well that comes in, 90 gallons will go out to the distribution system, 10 gallons will go to to waste. And there's there's technology to further concentrate that

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so we can get that 10 gallons down to maybe five gallons. >> That's that's where I was heading because it's an awful lot of stuff to be >> correct >> to putting into a deep injection well. That's that's going to fill that up rather quickly. I would I would assume >> there's there's even something called uh

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well it's a massive boulder zone down there and you know now the the uh the I'm going to say the there's things like uh they call them um uh crystallizers that they put on the end of those where

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they can't get rid of the salt water that that turn the the water into pure salt, right? But they're very high energy and very expensive, right? So, that's that's an option, too. But that that would probably be right up there with the electrostatic uh you know, plate thing.

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>> A couple more questions. Um the tanks that we have now, they'll be they'll be set the big tanks at Whitewood. They'll be salvaged. >> Oh, yes. We need them. Yes, >> we're not we're don't have to rebuild them is what I'm saying. >> They're adequate size to go from five to six MGD. We've already crunched the

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numbers. And uh the last one the last question I had was on the was want to verify and say what you're saying the difference between the 7372 million and the 125 that was mentioned in the back is the the present value more or less of the O and M that's going to be how long

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is that lifetime 40 another 40 yearsish. Yeah, I I'm I'm going to have to check, but we probably used it 30 or 40 years. >> Okay, that's fine. >> The exact number is irrelevant at this point, but it's just it's just covering the O and M in that time frame. >> Okay, I think that's all I have for now. Thank you very much. It was a good report. I appreciate it. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> Hi, good evening. >> Good evening. >> Um, so I take precision very seriously. So, I just wanted to ask when you describe parts of White Bay Plan as

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falling down, was that was I'm guessing literary license because I'm sure we would have heard from that uh from staff about that. >> Well, there's a there's a couple and the staff has done a good job addressing those, but there's a couple structural issues with that lime uh that lime

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equipment that that has some rust and and is bordering on unsafe. So, I you know I I I apologize if I use that word, but but it's it's just something that's at the end of its life, right? It's like a uh you know, an old car or something. >> Not about to fall down.

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>> No, no, it's not. But >> just just checking. >> Thank you. I I appreciate the clarity on that. Um so, uh I think my first question is when we had our town hall many many months ago, >> um you know, GAC and EX were discussed

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as options. >> Yes. and they were at that time uh regarded as being cheaper. >> Yes. >> So were you surprised at the outcome of your report when as described and presented in the paper and also as

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you've said tonight, were you surprised that the cost for all three options came out to be roughly the same? >> We we were surprised and and the the value of we did a really um economical pilot study for you. We have pilot

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equipment ourselves. We we basically put it out on your site for free. We didn't charge you any rent. And um so we we did an EP uh city of Tampa did a $3 million pilot study, right? So ours was uh way more economical than that. And that's the the the thing that told us. We also

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did um bench scale studies at the University of Florida and as well as on site also. And what it confirmed for us was that um the hardness in the um in the water uh had some interference with

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the with the GAC and the ion exchange and we even softened the water and we still had issues with um with the life of those two components. So that that was surprising to us because we we've seen uh more longevity for granular activated carbon, you know, in this

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situation and for this these waters. um you know in other places in Florida. So it was it was a bit surprising. >> So the the main reason why GAC and EX cost more is that because of the wear and tear that you just described

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>> it it's it's the the um the the POS and we didn't have a lot of on paper competing uh sometimes organic carbon can compete for um uh granular activated carbon and I exchange sites and blind the media but we didn't have a lot of that. So, we didn't expect that, but

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there was something in the water that that you know was consuming the the uh the carbon faster than we expected. And the the key to this was um uh and it was credit to your staff as well. Uh they asked for a a decision tree to be

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performed for the um for the treatment process decision and it was really a unique um request and so we took a shot at it and our first shot really didn't pass muster with the staff. So, we dug a little deeper and we happened to find it's in the appendix of the report and you should go look at it if if you

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haven't, but it's by the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality and it's uh written by 25 PhDs and peer-reviewed by another 25 PhDs. Right? So it's a it's a proven study and the key point on that was if you have

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multicontaminants to remove which in this case we do hardness and POS then the the decision tree steered you toward nanoiltration and away from activated carbon. Even if we would have found activated carbon to be good, it probably

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would have worked more as a short term, but we still would have had to soften the water. So we would have had to put a brand new lime plant in and then you we the cost would have been the same or higher. So it just didn't make sense and and so from that standpoint

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50 PhDs uh confirmed I went to the conference water conference in Daytona uh a couple weeks back and North Miami and and Miami Dade they spent million-dollar studies to to answer this question right and I was amazed at at what you know the the the links they

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went to determine the treatment process when in certain cases a decision tree like that would have been a would have given them a much quicker answer and I credit your staff for for suggesting that because it really turned out to be be uh helpful. >> Great. Well, I'm happy it saved time. Um

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so staying with the t the topic of cost. >> So the numbers that we have seen so far are as follows. The county connection estimate was between 25 and I believe 38 million, >> right? And I think the or 35 possibly

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and the Tampa connection estimate was between 20 and 39 million. So um you you describe those as being the highest cost and my question is how how are those how is it possible that those are the highest cost given that 40 million is

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significantly smaller number than 73 million? >> Yeah, another great question. So uh city of Tampa and Hillsburg County don't give their water away for free, right? What do they charge you? a rate and they gave it to your staff and it's $4 plus a th00and gallon and you just saw numbers

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that say we could build a nano plant for $2.25 a,000 gallon. So, you have to put the $40 million on top of the $425 or whatever the county was going to charge you, which is really they're they're um wholesaling the Tampa Bay

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water wholesale, which equals a retail rate for you, right? So, you're getting you're getting you're getting a water that that hopscotched over to you and they had to mark it up from from theirs. Uh I I'll give you another exercise. Look at your wastewater rates, which the city does not control their wastewater

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rates, right? And if you look at your website, your wastewater rates are $11 per thousand gallon because somebody else does it, right? You know what your water rates are? What? 260 262 something like that. It's it's, you know, so that you can see when you're not in control

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of your rates and and your equipment, you're going to pay higher money. It's you can look at your own web page and and determine that. But that that's just that's just how it is, right? They have to get the water from Tampa Bay water to them then over to you, you know, and and and you know as well and they've got uh

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cap major cap they have to remove POS they have to renew their plant they're in the same nobody is getting plants for free right so you have to continually spend money to improve your plant you know the rule of thumb is 1 to 2% of a plant value a year

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I understand so um to develop that topic slightly if you're saying that the $30 million spread still means that it's cheaper to develop our own solution. Does that mean that you've run an analysis of what it

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would save us? Basically, when you buy water from another source and you pay more economically, it's identical to taking out a loan. So, in this case, we would need 30 thou uh 30 million dollars of additional debt.

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If we don't do that, then we have to pay a little bit more per gallon. Either way, right, the rateayer is going to be burdened either with a $30 million loan or with a slightly higher per gallon rate or let's just say a higher per

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gallon rate. So, does that mean if you're making this claim that you've run the economic analysis on both of those scenarios? Well, you know, I I'm going to say when I look at a a retail rate or a wholesale rate that I have to pay Tampa B water or

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or city of Tampa of $420 something cents a,000 gallon and and and we can upgrade your water system for that $2 per thousand gallon. So the you're going to be paying something like six to seven I I I haven't crunched the exact number

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but it's going to be something six to seven uh dollars per thousand gallons to get water from them to you. So and and then you have to pay your own staff and your distribution and all that as well on top of that. So you know the only thing you're going to save is you're not going to have to treat the water. You're

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still going to have to pump it. It's still going to have to come through White. You're still going to have to have a pump station that pumps it into your distribution. you're still going to have to upgrade Sunningdale to pump it out to the tank and etc. So you're not you're only losing the treatment part of it. You're not losing the whole infrastructure cost that you have to

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take care of and operate. So the distribution system, >> right? Well, I think if I may push back slightly on that, we're not only losing out on that. also the deep well, the exploratory well. Those are two

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major items that we would not need because as you pointed out, I think in your slideshow today, other cities have already begun those. So, we wouldn't need our own. Is that correct? >> Right. But you you're you're going to pay for the city of Tampa's deep well, right? They're they're planning on

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putting one in. So, >> that would be reflected in the rate we pay. >> Oh, I don't know if it is or not. That's that's their current rate. So not not what they're after they upgrade their plant to POS removal and put the deep well in they've got to raise their rates, right? So yeah, you I I get your

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point and I'm I'm not arguing your point. It's it's a balance, but it's clearly clearly the numbers indicate that look, you know, look at your wastewater cost. That's all I'm going to say that that that you're you're paying five times what you pay for water for waste water, right? And it's because it's outside. Well, with all due

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respect, sir, we wanted to have an accurate reflection of what these different options would cost us and what they would mean for our city. So, to be referred to my utilities bill to see what I pay for wastewater isn't giving me any information that I already don't

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have access to. So all I'm saying is and it's perfectly fine if you need more time to go back and research this and complete the task. But the thing is we asked for a breakdown so that we could analyze the three options that we had on the table. One of them being to develop

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our own solution. The other one being that we could connect to Tampa and the third one being that we might connect to the county. And so if we don't have accurate numbers and an accurate understanding of what these would mean for us, then that's a problem.

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>> Certainly, I I can get you that that calculation. That's that's an easy calculation. I get get that to you. >> I would appreciate that. Staying with the cost topic on page ES6 of your report, I found um two different numbers, three different

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numbers, excuse me, relating to um concentrate management and or PAS disposal and or well drilling. So I just wanted to try and understand what is going on here. Um and this is in the in the capital expense chart as well. So there's a number for uh I'm just going

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to ask you to explain at the end of this. So >> there's a number for an exploratory well which is 7.1 million. >> There's a number for concentrate management which is 26.8 million. >> And just a minute ago what I heard was the number for concentrate management that is the number for the deep well.

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>> Correct. >> However on that same page there is a line item called NF and deep well and the number assigned to that is 57.1 million. >> That's a a total. So that's a total of those two. the NF plus the deep well.

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>> Sorry, I'm going to check that for a moment. So, um this is the five-year total. Is that what you mean? >> Correct. >> Okay. And so why do I see above that in

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the total section um 57144389? That number carries down over that's general WTP and that's 57.144 million and that then cover comes down to the lower end here on the project for the

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5-year total. Is that the idea? >> Right. >> Okay. And so that's a separate Okay, good. Thank you for clarifying that. I'm happy to hear that. That is just the total sum. >> Yes, me too. >> Um, which comes to the next topic.

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Uh, sorry, I actually unfortunately have a lot here to get through. Um, the uh single point of failure topic came up as well in your conversation. Um, I I agree with you that having a single point of failure is is a problem. You mentioned that it was this I believe

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18inch pipe, >> 16 inch >> 16inch pipe. We would also end up with a single point of failure if we consolidated Singale and Whiteway, right? >> Um that that is correct. But you would have two trains to uh to um minimize

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that that. So a single water plant is is Yes, it's it's better to have two water plants, but a single water plant with two trains is considered class one reliability. So that's the best reliability you can get. >> Okay. Um, and when it comes to the well that you mentioned, the drilling this uh

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7.5 million that the attempt might be free because we might get funding through some other source. >> I didn't say free, but I said >> pennies on the dollar. You you we we would hope to get a big chunk of it funded. >> Okay. How? So that that would be from where

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this funding >> uh the the the district and the uh uh state revolving loan fund, they have a a category called AWS grants, alternative water supply grants, and we believe that going down into the uh the lower Florida

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would qualify for that. >> Okay, good. So I'm going to bring that up coming up shortly in the financing issue. So the another point that I'd like to raise is this one. So the the recent extension that was announced

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on this my understanding is that it does require an application. You do not automatically get it. >> No, you're right. Correct. >> Okay. So your assumption is that we are applying for it. >> That would be the recommended approach. Yes.

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>> Right. Because this this announcement came yesterday. So, the day before our meeting today is when this new rule with the application possibility and possibly a two-year extension for people who might get it was announced. But, but in your

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slideshow and in your report, I saw which surprised me greatly that your entire timeline is based on 2031. So, did I mean I can't imagine that you you didn't go in yesterday and update everything to go up to 2031 timeline, did you? >> We we had some information that that was

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going to change. So that we adjusted the report in in advance of that so we didn't have to go change it. So yeah, we had some uh information that that was going to change. >> Is it your opinion then that we would not be able to complete this by 2029 by the original deadline? >> Uh we would have to get really moving

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fast and and I I there is a way to get it done by then and it would take moving now. So >> okay. Uh okay. So, so we've been given a plan that will require us to apply for an extension because that is not anything that I think I would support at

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this time. So, I my initial my initial reaction to the idea of going and asking for an extension on this is very negative. So, I'm just going to be upfront about that. Um, and so I'm I'm I'm surprised that a report that was commissioned half a year ago or longer,

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a couple years ago, um, well, the PAS component was, I think, six years old, but the other the the the water maintenance component is older. That that somehow presupposes that there are two more years than we originally bargained for. I I'm I'm with you on

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this and I feel that the the the bigger uh urgency is to to get the plant upgraded and so that that's what I feel the bigger industry and I don't I don't propose and the report doesn't propose to sit back and wait. We you can see the

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capital dollars that we have in there. You just uh you you can only do so much so fast and um you know that's that's what we thought was was realistic. You you'll likely hear from your rate consultant that we may have to adjust that. But that's that's the first guess

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and I'm I'm with you 100%. I nothing in the report slowed down from the previous 2029 deadline. >> Okay. Um another thing that you mentioned in your presentation gave me pause which was that concentrate can be

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hazardous waste. Um, we don't have any guarantee that disposing of this waste in a deep well will remain legal forever, do we? >> Right. That's that's the issue and that's why it's it's a placeholder for now.

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>> Okay. So, you know, coming back to it again, there are uncertainties here and there are many regulatory issues that might come into play that make it much smarter to assign all of these risks to a entity like Hillsboro County or Tampa

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where if they suddenly have an issue with disposal in a deep well, it doesn't suddenly become something that we've spent $25 million on that we can no longer actually operate as infrastructure. >> Right. and and that's certainly your choice that >> and if we were to run into a scenario like that sometime in the future, it

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would certainly be very smart to have paid more dollars per gallon over that period of time. I would presume economically >> that's I think that's your job. I think right that that is your job. We've laid out the numbers and what the what our recommended plan is and and I I I agree

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that those things have to be thought through and and that that's something the city it's it's it's citizens and you will have to decide. We're getting we're getting to the end. I only have a little bit more. Um you mentioned that these nano filters are better able to handle

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the water that we're giving to them than are the other filter options. However, I'm guessing that they still break. So what is the ex is the expected maintenance for these filters the cost of replacement the cost of repair whatever it may be is that already accounted for in the economic plan that

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you've presented >> in the in the operating costs it is >> okay correct and and membranes may last from 5 to 10 years sometimes more. Um the uh um we we presented to your staff, your

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staff went and met with some local utilities that do the exact same process and their their plants uh require less operation. They they um they are easy to operate and um they're they're a you know, let's say a more robust

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technology, but certainly they they had they do have higher operating costs and you saw that in our in our numbers. >> Okay. And if if one of these filters were to break, what would that cost? >> Oh, well, you just open the tube and you pull them out and replace them with new

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ones, right? So that that's that's how that's how easy it is. So they they sit inside pressure vessels. And each pressure vessel has maybe eight or so membranes inside it. And there's certain things you can do to detect if a uh if a

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vessel has has malfunctioned or failed like uh you know something breaking through and you you just pull those off. It it's relatively rare and um but it happens. There's no doubt about >> how much does it cost? What's the question? Sorry. >> Oh uh to replace the membranes. Yes,

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sir. >> Um you know I I'd have to get you that number. I I don't have it off the top of my head. I membranes probably cost 4 to 500 bucks for a a single 8 inch element. maybe a little more maybe maybe 6 to 800 right now but um uh so yeah to replace

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one element would be in that range. >> Okay so it's fair to say that it's a trivial cost relative to the overall system >> right and it and and the plan is to bake that cost in as good as we know it today. >> That's really reassuring. I'm glad to hear that. Um the last one is uh service

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disruptions during construction. So if we're I'm presuming we're taking some of these components offline in order to work on them, right? Well, good thing they're already offline, but the plan is to put all of them. >> I I know I'm I'm the the plan is to put that second 16inch main through and so

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that we can um keep the existing plant in operation while we're constructing the new the new component. So, the plan is to 100% keep the existing plant online while we're constructing the new plant. >> Okay, >> new components. >> Right now, I'm just going to briefly go through questions. I got about 25 30

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questions from constituents. I'm just going to go through these, make sure that I've covered all of their concerns before I yield the floor here. So, um, you mentioned what you mentioned drilling into deeper areas to find less contaminated water. I saw that. Um, I

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think the second one you've already answered as well. You did not conduct an independent analysis of interconnecting with Tampa and Hillsboro. We're relying solely on your estimate and that that seems to be slightly uh ambiguous right now. Is that correct? Um well the the numbers need a further calculation.

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Let's just say that. But they're they're clearly higher than than what the costs were. >> Okay. >> Of the other options. >> Um wastewater treatment with reclaimed water generation. Was that considered as part of uh long range utility planning in this >> wastewater treatment? >> Yes. >> Well, you would need a wastewater

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treatment. >> Reclaimed reclaimed water. >> Oh. Uh bringing reclaimed water in from a from an outside utility >> locally. >> Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah. from a connecting utility that you know that is a great idea that was outside the scope of our our study but that that certainly the city should look at that.

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>> Okay. Interesting. All right. Uh okay. And um I think we were through it. Thank you. >> Oh thank you. >> Thank you >> Mr. Talton. I've got a few questions. Let me start with what I think are the easiest ones. So I reading your report

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I'm under the impression that the nanoiltration does not involve reverse osmosis. Is that correct? It >> No, that's not correct. Reverse osmosis and nano filtration are very similar. So it there's a spectrum and they overlap

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each other. So the reverse osmosis membranes are tighter so they can remove salt. That's their that's their goal. Nanopiltration membranes and you hear the term membrane softening, right? So you don't need to remove salt if you've got fresh water with hardness. So you'll hear that term that's more than

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nanopiltration. But actually they overlap and the me membrane manufacturers are are really scrambling to get a membrane that that removes most all of the POS and only half the hardness, right? We don't need to remove all the hardness to get to our goal. So

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that if we find that membrane that's in the sweet spot, it it'd be great if if we have to air to the to the um uh conservative side, we we'll be going towards the RORO uh tightness. But you have fresh water, right? Your your wells

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are fresh water. We don't need to remove salt and we don't think uh that that but the line gets blurred in the middle and and you'll see the terms used interchangeably actually. So >> okay. Um

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the deep injection well I I understand I don't want you to repeat everything you did because I I had questions but you explained it very well that this is kind of a where the technology exists today is the deep injection wells for the concentrate

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affluent that is a byproduct of this um and that hopefully in the future it's something practical and will come along that we don't have to do that because I'm I'm really not crazy about the idea of injecting this. We're trying to get this out of the environment, not move

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it. >> Me, too. I I said that at the August 2025 meeting. I'm in the same boat as you. >> We're just moving it to a place where it's not inconvenient to us right now. But I would really rather figure out a way to get rid of it. But that's beyond

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what you're, you know, I know, I get it. So, my questions concerning the deep injection well are where would that well be located and how deep is it? >> Okay. So, we've engaged a really top-of-the-line um hydro geologist, but they're not under contract with the city

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yet. So, they've provided some uh just preliminary opinions. And the good thing about uh the geology underneath you is the deep well would not have to be as deep as some of the east coast deep wells. So, and because our flow is not great, we don't need a a a giant deep

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well. So, but that is that is the recommendation to p pull that thread, right? I can only give you uh abstracts right now. We need to get a hydrogeeologist on board, discuss with the department of health, the department of environmental protection, the water

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management district and and come to a uh they have um you know sophisticated h uh water hydrarology models uh hydraologic models that that model groundwater flow movements. Those are the things that need to be done to answer those questions. Right? So,

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>> so we don't know how deep it would need to be. >> Um, you know, I'm gonna uh our hydro geologist told me, but I'm not going to shoot from the hip on this one. I I can forward you her opinion and and you know, you know, that pretty much answers the question.

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>> Okay. And I guess we don't know how deep it would be would also kind of determine where it would be, >> right? And that's that's question one, too. Exactly. We we're pretty sure we know how deep, but where is going to be

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the question we can locate it. And so we're going to look at the the geology of what's underneath you, what's underneath Whiteway, where the best place is to to locate it. >> So if it's not colllocated at the same water treatment plant, then we would be talking about another pipe to get it to

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wherever the well is, >> right? and it could be, you know, offsite at a a you know, another city parcel or something like that, but we would obviously try to locate it as close to the plant as we could. >> So, how big in diameter would that well be?

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>> Um, I'm I'm I'm going to say 6 in and um so that that's that's what I remember approximately that that well would be. So I when council member Schistler asked a question about how much affluent would be generated, I did some quick numbers on my phone here and it if we were to be

398
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pumping 6 million gallons a day and you had an 85% throughput, we would get about a million gallons a day of affluent. >> Well, close to it. Yes, sir. >> So that would be a lot going down that well. Is that I mean

399
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>> I assume you've done this before so that well could take that. >> Yeah, that's that's about Yeah. 700 gallons per minute. So So yeah, that's that's something in the six to eight 8 inch range. >> Okay. Um so let me this part

400
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I I actually thought I was pretty clear on this until tonight and then I got fuzzier and the more this went on the fuzzier I got. So, when you talked about the exploratory well, and that's at $7.1 million, which I got a couple questions about that cuz

401
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it's it's not all in one year. The exploratory well is $850,000 in year two, $800,000 year three, and $5.5 million in year. How do you drill a well over a three-year period? Well, the first part is is permitting it, locating

402
01:50:39.040 --> 01:50:55.119
it, coordinating with the district on the modeling, and getting their approval. Right? So, that's we're not drilling well unless they say we can, right? So, that's that's the first step of the process. And and some of it um it could be spread out a little differently. We we did the best we could

403
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to estimate it, but uh >> it seems to me like when you I mean, I get the permitting and the stuff like that, you got to go through that. there's an expense to that. >> But once you start drilling a well, you drill a well, >> right? And and we just think it'll it'll

404
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take a a little bit of time to uh answer the question as to where it goes and and get it permitted and things like that. So, >> okay. So, here's the part where I got fuzzy. What's the benefit in us doing this

405
01:51:25.199 --> 01:51:41.199
exploratory well at all for $7 million if we're going to have to do the nano filtration system most likely >> right >> on the deep water aquifer as opposed I mean we're doing it our wells are

406
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working fine they just have contaminants in them we got calcium to get out and be fast >> but other than that we have good water it's just got to be processed better >> right >> but what's the advantage of going to this deeper well where we're probably going to still have to do the filtration

407
01:51:57.679 --> 01:52:13.599
why don't we just leave the well out of it I don't see what the advantage is >> that That's that's a a valid question and that is something that could be easily done should you choose. So so that that's the the path we chose was we we we believe that we need an additional

408
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well at Whiteway when we go to 6MGD. We know that and so that's the that's the kicker. So we either need that or a pipe from Sunningdale. And we we just discussed that. But those those are both valid options there. There's no doubt. You could just say, "Hey, geez, you know, I used to we used to drill wells

409
01:52:30.080 --> 01:52:46.880
for a million bucks." Right? Now they're seven million, right? You know, that's and so that that's totally valid and something that could change down the road. that that's >> so from a layman's perspective, I'm going to expose my ignorance here, I

410
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know, but after listening to this and reading this report, um, listen to some of the public comment, I first of all, I don't understand the need, and maybe this will come out later as we review this, but I really don't

411
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understand any advantage to drilling the exploratory Well, why don't we just go with the wells we have and treat it? So, number two is that that frees up seven. Well, not frees up, it's $72 million. There's nothing free about it, but that

412
01:53:18.719 --> 01:53:34.320
reduces the potential cost by $7 million, >> right? >> So, this is a looking at a 2031 um sunset. I mean, this is when this thing's likely to be operational. Hopefully before, but it's still a

413
01:53:34.320 --> 01:53:51.360
number of years off. Having been in government for a long time, I know this stuff takes a long time. I mean, if we started today, I don't know if we'd make 2029, but um so

414
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this isn't work direction. I can't do that. The council's got to discuss this, but it's just me thinking out loud. Is it feasible? I mean, everything's possible, but is it feasible to do some short-term mitigation while

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we undertake this? In other words, I I read this thoroughly about what's going on at the White Way treatment plant. I I've been out there. I don't understand the intricacies of the process, but I have seen every square inch of that property, so I know the condition of the

416
01:54:23.360 --> 01:54:39.119
equipment, what it looks like. Is it feasible to put some temporary PAS mitigation? We already have a lime removing system in the pipe that doesn't do anything. It's on bypass. It hasn't

417
01:54:39.119 --> 01:54:54.719
worked. It's not working. We're not going to fix it. So, is it possible to route the pipe that goes into that and the pipe that comes out of it and just go around it and put a temporary PAS mitigation system in the process at

418
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White Way? Now, now I understand from what you said that it may not get us to our >> objective to get down to the levels that we're trying to get down to, >> right? >> But it may remove

419
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a good percentage of what we have and take us down to a much lower level until we get the final solution online in 2030 or 2031. We could remove a portion of that. Even if we had to go buy one of these trailers as opposed to rent them

420
01:55:27.440 --> 01:55:44.560
for three years, how I mean we got if we didn't do the exploratory well, we'd have $7 million savings. We could go buy a trailer or two >> right >> now. In order for that to work, if these were NF trailers, we would have to drill

421
01:55:44.560 --> 01:56:01.040
the deep well first, which would change the scope of work because you got to have somewhere to put the affluent, >> right? >> But couldn't we change I mean, is it feasible to do the deep well first while we're engineering all the electrical and all? We got a lot of work to do out

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there. There's a lot of stuff to take time. >> Drill the well, put these temporary mitigation strategies in place. hopefully, you know, even around the the old water softening system that doesn't work and then pipe that affluent into

423
01:56:16.000 --> 01:56:32.880
the well for the next three years. The only part of that that I see we would be spending extra money is the trailers, the temporary fix that we would have to buy, >> right? >> The well we would have to drill anyway, >> right? >> So, is that feasible? >> And I'm going to answer that question.

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In master planning, we start here at the 30,000 foot level and as we go to preliminary design, we zero in and get more detailed, right? And that the answer to that is yes, but I would talk to the district and the DOP, the D, the

425
01:56:48.159 --> 01:57:04.960
DO first, right? And and that's that's what you've got to involve the whole picture and you got to show them the plan and the options and then you're you're going to deter they're going to determine also what might be feasible. they have groundwater models and and you need to run those to see okay we want to

426
01:57:04.960 --> 01:57:20.719
take the water from here and and not here and things like that. So the answer is yes, it's feasible. And as we go from master plan to preliminary design into design, you get more granular. You zero in on things like that. That's a 100%

427
01:57:20.719 --> 01:57:36.880
feasible valid question. And and that that will be flushed out when we when we move on to the next step. >> Okay. And let me just follow up with something that council member Kravitz brought up to you. Just want to make sure that everybody understands where we

428
01:57:36.880 --> 01:57:54.719
are and what's coming next with this. There was discussion about a cost benefit costbenefit analysis of hooking up to Hillsboro or Tampa in terms of water rate. And I get what you're saying. I understand. And first of all, this presupposes that Tampa is willing

429
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to let us hook on, which I'm not sure that's a good assumption because they've got capacity issues. But anyway, >> you said that you were would be able to run some numbers and provide some now I the reason I want to go back to that

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01:58:11.920 --> 01:58:27.440
is I don't want to exceed the scope of work here that you're under with the city. Can you do that and provide it to us? And if so, I mean, could we have it by the town hall? Because I will tell you there's a lot of people in the city that are saying, why don't we just do this?

431
01:58:27.440 --> 01:58:42.800
>> Sure. and and and yes, that that can be done. The the conversation and the information came at a really late date, but it's valuable information and it's enough for us to estimate what it costs. The point is Tampa is going to be uh

432
01:58:42.800 --> 01:58:59.920
implementing POS 2 treatment too and deep well. So, you know, their their rates are not going to be static, right? So, that's but we can certainly run the numbers at their current rates. That's not an issue. I've talked to Mayor Caster and again this conversation presupposes that they would be agreeable

433
01:58:59.920 --> 01:59:16.320
to letting us do that and I don't think that's the case. >> Hillsboro County maybe, but I don't think Tampa's got the they're already in the design phases of their >> I would tr I would trust what your what your public works staff met with them and and said and that's something you

434
01:59:16.320 --> 01:59:33.080
guys can ask them directly. So I was not >> but anyway having those numbers I think would be beneficial for both us and the public to know. >> Not a problem. Not a problem. >> That's a lot of money. So we're trying to make sure we have all the >> understand. >> Yes. That's an easy calculation.

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>> Mr. Warren Phelps. Anything to Okay. Mr. Talton, any final words? >> I just want to thank you all. Um I the the the level of depth of questions I I applaud you because those are things that we struggled with too to to develop this plan and and at some point we had

436
01:59:51.280 --> 02:00:07.599
to pick a plan to move forward. So we we picked the bless best plan we could but it is certainly in your court and your staff's court to adjust this plan going forward. A master plan again flies at 30,000 ft. Then you come down to the level once you had discussions with the regulators etc. So it it is now is the

437
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time to shake the bushes and answer these questions uh on that level on a on a more granular level. So >> thank you again. >> Thank you Mr. T. So council members I'm going to defer to your wishes on this. I

438
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don't think there's any action expected to you. We're good. >> Oh, thank you. >> Um but if you choose and you want to have some discussion on it, we can certainly do that. I mean we're here. It's an important topic. It's expensive. We can have some discussion if you'd like. >> I have one item.

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>> Okay. >> I just wanted as for the exploratory well and the possibility of not having to do that. I based on the information that's presented that would make sense to me. However, they have indicated that

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it's possible we might it might be more cost effective to add a well for capacity at Whiteway versus trying to lay pipe to get the water from Sunnyale to Whiteway as because it's already got

441
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to go piping already has to exist to go from Whiteway to Sunnydale. So that might not eliminate the cost of a well, but it might not require it to be a deep well, which would reduce the cost. >> Anyway, that is the only thing I've

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02:01:27.920 --> 02:01:42.960
>> I'd be interested in having a little more on that as well because if we got to put a pipe from White Way to Sunnydale because you got to have supply. You got to have treated water going to Sunnydale. >> Yes. >> Seems like if you're going to dig a trench, you're going to put a pipe. You

443
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could dig the same trench, put two pipes. But I mean I don't know if they trench or they bore. I'm not sure how that would work. But >> and we don't we none of this really had the cost right >> associated with >> that's a that's a good point. Yeah. I

444
02:01:59.040 --> 02:02:16.400
>> the only comment I have is uh for the last six years Tampa Tampa has increased rates to us for their treatment plants and and so forth. So whatever calculations you do um that that has to

445
02:02:16.400 --> 02:02:31.599
be factored in as to what's it going to be what's the potential because I know I know just of our sewer rates they went up 5 10 15% every year uh for for handling it because they were we we ended up having to pay for their improvements and they're going to pass

446
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it on just like just like uh that um plus also the distance it's what one mile from here to the city three miles from here to the county and all that we can encounter in that type of a of a hookup connection. Um, God knows what's

447
02:02:48.080 --> 02:03:04.080
out there in in in between. So, that'd be my my word of caution with that. >> I I would agree with you, but I think with a project this big, >> oh, we got to look at absolutely got to look at it. Just we keep as much of it in the calculation as we can.

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>> We would be doing a disservice to if we didn't a little bit. >> Agreed. Council member Kravis. >> Yeah, I have a question for uh city manager. Um when we got numbers from Hillsboro County and Tampa Bay uh and

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Tampa Water, uh my assumption there was that if they were giving us estimates that they were in principle willing to connect. Was that was that a bad assumption on my part? So to clarify, we approached them a year ago um about this issue because we are

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02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:51.440
trying to just look at all the alternatives as was evidenced by the discussion tonight. Um I don't think this is a priority for the for the c for the Hillsboro County nor the city of Tampa. My understanding at at the staff level, I've not talked to the folks with the city of Tampa. I talked to them

451
02:03:51.440 --> 02:04:07.360
initially. I was on a call with our staff. The rest of the conversation since have been at the water level staff uh water staff level I should say. Our understanding is that the city of Tampa may have some capacity issues where this they might not be inclined to do this. I think they explored it as a courtesy to

452
02:04:07.360 --> 02:04:24.080
us because that was our request. But they have some capacity issues they're trying to work through because uh again they they pull from the river primarily and they have to to meet a certain amount I think also from Tampa Bay water and if there's a drought or more demand then they pull more from Tampa Bay water which costs them more. So I think

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they're trying to figure out their own internal capacity and then also deal with their own PAS issues because they have PAS as well. So the council recall when we did meet with meet with them a year ago, their costs were, you know, well in excess of hund00 million that they were looking at for just to address

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the the PAS issue, including the deep well. So I I I don't I don't know if the Tampa will be a viable uh possibility. Uh the county we would have to look at the county again, excuse me. Uh the concern that I have with the county uh

455
02:04:55.840 --> 02:05:13.199
alternative is that it's a three plus mile connection uh to get to their con to their closest connection point to to get us to the Whiteway plant. uh our experience for example in Fowler Avenue dealing with underground infrastructure you think something's going to cost a

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certain amount and then you end you realize because there could be anything underground that's not accounted for coming from the county into the city that those costs could exponentially grow very quickly. So if I recall I think the number might have been an estimate of $40 million let's say for the county connection

457
02:05:29.760 --> 02:05:45.599
that number could be much much larger again because we don't know what's underground to make that connection. So I think there's a lot of variables there. It's not to it's not to mean that we shouldn't continue to look at it. I just think that it it the cost will probably end up being more significant than we are contemplating at this

458
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moment. Again, if the county would be willing to even consider that at this point. >> Okay. I mean, I think going forward, I personally would really like to know whether just yes or no from both of these utilities whether they're willing to connect. Um,

459
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I'd also be curious if the connection point that's three miles away is toward the east because we are always talking about annexing areas in the east. So, if that is the case, there might be some arbitrage there. Um, and the last point

460
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that comes to mind, yes, everyone is raising their utility rates. Tampa will, the county will, we will. Um however this estimate that we have in front of us about the 72 million

461
02:06:33.280 --> 02:06:49.520
is already 6% higher because we had 6% inflation this year. So I would assume that that is reflected in a higher ongoing cost and as we move forward over the next few years these costs will also not age well the uh the ones that we

462
02:06:49.520 --> 02:07:06.480
have in front of us for the do-it-yourself solution. And there's also always a risk in doing construction that you will experience delays and cost overruns. And so when I consider which

463
02:07:06.480 --> 02:07:24.079
of these options, if we have three, and we may not, I would think which one has the greatest risk of uh a significant overrun. So the u the numbers from Tampa and the county the provisional ones were in a very wide

464
02:07:24.079 --> 02:07:41.280
range. So I I don't if I got an estimate from like 20 to 35 million or 20 to 40 million I probably wouldn't take it too seriously. So I'm not assuming that these numbers are going to survive contact with the enemy. But uh we do need to get the numbers and we also do

465
02:07:41.280 --> 02:07:57.840
need to get a yes or no in my mind >> from all of the people that we're talking to. Even if we have to force the question, right? Sometimes it's a little bit unpleasant, but you have to say you have to ask for the order, right? Are you willing to connect yes or no? And if

466
02:07:57.840 --> 02:08:12.960
they say no, then we file that away and we know we can't have that option. So, we pursue other options with more energy. But it's important to know. And I think that everyone I everyone I speak to wants to know, even if they want to keep it in-house, they want to know what

467
02:08:12.960 --> 02:08:29.840
these other options might cost. Nobody wants to do whatever we're going to do. and have any regrets that we didn't look at everything and make the best choice. So I think that that is something that everyone has in common. Everyone wants to know that whatever we do was the right thing, right? And the only way we

468
02:08:29.840 --> 02:08:45.760
can do that is if we have as complete a picture as we get and again I'm very concerned about the cost of this project if we do it in-house escalating over time because inflation is real. Material crunches are real. the demand for these parts is

469
02:08:45.760 --> 02:09:01.679
going to be intense and real as we go forward. I would not assume that the number that we have is the number that we're going to end up with. Even when I'm doing really basic construction like like rehabbing a house, always I plan for 15

470
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to 20% overage and I've never been disappointed ever. So that just goes right into my budget from the start. So if we extrapolate something like that for here, right? And already we've had very significant inflation this year. I was reading that paper a few days ago. Um we're talking five 6%. In almost

471
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every category um and energy is a big part of construction. Energy is way up. So so we are looking at higher numbers than what we have here today. I will I will guarantee it. So those are my thoughts right now.

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>> Discussion. >> Yes. Um my thoughts I certainly can't make a decision tonight. We have a very good report. We've had some great questions, a lot of great discussions. Um, I look forward to the town hall on Tuesday. We'll we'll hear more from the

473
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public, but I I really appreciate everything the consultants have done, our staff done. You've worked really hard on it. just my uh thoughts on the latest issue and again we don't have the numbers and we have to explore everything but I personally I would love to keep control of our water plant with

474
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us in the water plant not rely on another entity which our staff and our uh citizens that are sitting out in the audience now would have to go down to city of Tampa or Hillsburg County to the uh talk about their water to their houses so we can control that but that's just my thought right today. So that's

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it, mayor. >> Okay. So I just uh respond briefly. I I agree with much of what you said, council member, particularly with the cost overruns. These are already given to us in 2025

476
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numbers. So um I agree that the real number I'm sure will be significantly higher than 72 million. In terms of getting a firm yes or no though from Hillsbor County or Tampa, that's that sounds easy and it's not because both of

477
02:10:56.639 --> 02:11:11.840
those entities that that would take us months to probably if you're looking for a firm answer because both of those entities would would have to take it to their governing board. It would it would almost I'm sure have to go to the county

478
02:11:11.840 --> 02:11:28.000
commission and to Tampa City Council to get final approval. But in addition to that, both of those entities would also have to go to Tampa Bay Water because they're they're a customer and a partner to Tampa Bay Water and we're not. So that would be a third board that that

479
02:11:28.000 --> 02:11:43.920
would have to go to to see if they could reh wholesale as a Tampa Bay Water customer. I'm pretty sure under their um I don't know if it's their charter, their user agreement as a charter

480
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member. I don't think they're allowed to do that. It would would cause some that that doesn't mean that it couldn't eventually be done, but as terms of like picking up the phone and calling Bonnie Wise or Jane Caster, you're not going to be able to get that. I mean, you could

481
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probably get a no, but it would take you a long time to get a yes because it would have to go through and and if um you have any experience with either of those entities, um you know, think it takes us a long time to get something

482
02:12:16.480 --> 02:12:32.480
done, try dealing with them. and and uh for them to get something worked up to the point of going to their city council or their BOCC would set us back a long time. So, we can certainly

483
02:12:32.480 --> 02:12:48.800
renew the contract or contacts and try, but it's not like you're going to call Bonnie and get Yeah, we can do that. I mean, it's going to be more than that. So, okay. Very good. Well, that was good discussion.

484
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Um, next we have funding options for proposed water plant improvements and Peter Napoli from Stantech senior, he's a senior manager for Stantech is here to present. >> Mr. Mayor, >> yes. >> Before Mr. Napoli comes up, I just want to preface his presentation. >> Okay.

485
02:13:05.119 --> 02:13:22.560
>> So, Mr. Napoli with Stantech was commissioned to look at a bond uh feasibility uh study, revenue feasibility for a potential bond. So, what he did and you're going to see is basically he looked as if we, you know, we were bonding the full 72.4

486
02:13:22.560 --> 02:13:37.760
uh 72.2 million that's presented in in the master plan report. I want to make clear that there are there are alternatives which Mr. Talton talked about through like the state drinking water revolving loan fund. There may be appropriations. In fact, um

487
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I have a meeting set up with uh uh officials from D, Tallahassee D, and our our government affairs consultant. He helped set this up. We're going to have these conversations about that process because that only really starts up in July, for example, the application cycle, and it would go into next year's

488
02:13:53.920 --> 02:14:09.760
session as well for some of that. So, that first year, there could be some other uh things here that we could find out about apply for. We may get by year two some dollars that offset the full amount that's listed here. But I just wanted you to know what what he was charged with was looking at take the

489
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full amount and if we had to bond it, what would it look like? >> Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. P. Yeah. Welcome, Mr. Napoli. >> Thank you. Thank you, city manager, for that introduction. >> I have a monitor. >> Go ahead, >> Brian. We've got a monitor that's failed.

490
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Okay, you can continue. He'll catch up. >> All right. Um, well, thank you for having me here today. Uh good evening Peter Napoli Sante Consulting. Um as the city manager was explaining, we were tasked with, you know, taking all these variables and assumptions that we just

491
02:14:40.800 --> 02:14:56.880
discussed and inputting it into a rate plan, a 10-year sustainability outlook for the water and sewer utility. Um so I've got a brief presentation for you tonight. We're only covering a couple of these scenarios, but uh it was an expedited process just to get here. We

492
02:14:56.880 --> 02:15:11.760
just wanted to get the discussion started. So, we are definitely going to come back with more scenarios after this. Um, some of the things that the city manager was explaining that could affect the cost side in a positive manner. So, funding from other sources,

493
02:15:11.760 --> 02:15:26.880
those weren't factored in. And then on the side that the council member Kravitz just discussed where costs could be higher than they're initially expecting, we haven't contemplated that yet. We're just taking the $72.5 million number from the engineering consultants report

494
02:15:26.880 --> 02:15:41.840
and then running with that for now and we can kind of work with things as they become available. So just a little background on the rate study uh typical you know rate study revenue sufficiency analysis. The goal is just to look at the operating

495
02:15:41.840 --> 02:15:59.520
revenues the water sewer reclaimed rate revenues that are generated. There's some other operating revenues that your utility generates from other miscellaneous fees. Look at that on an annual basis. Look at the operating expenses as they currently stand in the budget. Look at the capital outlay and

496
02:15:59.520 --> 02:16:14.480
then the capital concerns in the future and basically give the city a recommendation on whether or not your rate revenues are sufficient currently or they need to be increased uh through u rate increase adoption. So the big part about this is that

497
02:16:14.480 --> 02:16:30.719
middle section the borrowing is a is a is a huge uh topic of focus in this study. Um so we have the the data the cost data from the water treatment renewal plan in the study and we reflect that the cost requirement side. Outside

498
02:16:30.719 --> 02:16:47.280
of that there are operating cost requirements for the water and sewer utility. Currently we did our best to project those going forward for the next 10 years based on the last uh several years of historical trends. Um, so things like personnel services, so

499
02:16:47.280 --> 02:17:03.120
salaries and benefits, um, retirement costs, health insurance, your fuel costs, chemicals, repair and maintenance, all those operating budget line items, we have those moving forward year after year, too, to give you an idea of how your operating expenses are increasing. And then lastly, I just

500
02:17:03.120 --> 02:17:19.200
wanted to point out the renewal and replacement projects, the other projects that are on the CIP for the water and sewer utility to keep up with all the other demands and needs. We have those in there and we have the continual funding of that RNR fund which is it's kind of separate. It's held separately

501
02:17:19.200 --> 02:17:34.800
from the water and sewer utility fund but we have that continual funding uh contemplated as well. So the key drivers um for the rate increases that we're going to discuss today obviously the capital project funding. So, the water

502
02:17:34.800 --> 02:17:50.880
treatment renewal plan over that 5-year time frame, um the total cost being $72.5 million. The middle section there, the financial sustainability. So, one of the key metrics or performance indicators when we're talking about debt like this and

503
02:17:50.880 --> 02:18:05.120
issuing new debt for a water and sewer utility is the coverage. Um so, these bonds, they're potential bonds, hypothetical bonds at this point that could be issued for this project. uh they're backed by the water and sewer

504
02:18:05.120 --> 02:18:23.040
rate revenues. So the agencies and will want to ensure and the banks will want to ensure that those water and sewer rate revenues are sufficient to cover that debt service on an ongoing basis. Uh so there's a coverage requirement. So you're essentially your net income for your water and sewer utility after you

505
02:18:23.040 --> 02:18:39.840
you take your operating revenues minus your operating expenses has to at least be 1.2 times. uh if it was anywhere lower than that, they probably just wouldn't issue the the debt to the city, but we would really like it to be more like 1.5 times. So that's why we

506
02:18:39.840 --> 02:18:57.280
highlighted it there. That's more of a target. That's going to get you better interest rates and a better uh credit um you know, credit rating from the agencies. So that's what we're using right now kind of as our our minimum that 1.5 times target. And then on the

507
02:18:57.280 --> 02:19:13.519
other side of the equation is fund balance is important for the rating agencies and important for the uh bond issuance. You want to be sure that you're maintaining at least 3 months which is 25% of your annual operating expenditures in that water and sewer

508
02:19:13.519 --> 02:19:29.599
sewer utility over that 10-year time frame. And then the key driver on the cost side uh like I was discussing the blended cost rate is about 4.2% 2% average assumed annual increases uh across the

509
02:19:29.599 --> 02:19:47.040
board for your operating expenses. We have that built into the the financial forecast. One more slide here on just reviewing the highle assumptions. So we worked uh quickly with your your the city budget staff and city management to get your

510
02:19:47.040 --> 02:20:03.359
2025 financials in here. So, what that tells us is your current starting point from a a fund balance standpoint for your water and sewer utility. How much money do you have in the bank? Um, after all your liabilities are paid for, we have your current year 2026 budgeted

511
02:20:03.359 --> 02:20:18.160
revenues and expenses. And it's probably an amended budget, like a more recent version of that budget. We don't have the 2027 budget in at this time. I think it's preliminary in nature and or it's a work in progress. So as soon as that becomes available, that's going to be

512
02:20:18.160 --> 02:20:35.120
loaded into the analysis. Um the operating capital cost escalation. So we do have inflation built in for the other capital um projects out there in the the the forecast. We have the annual renewal and replacement CIP. And then if we go down to the bottom

513
02:20:35.120 --> 02:20:51.600
just at a a high level estimate, so 30 years at four and a half percent, we're looking at a net uh a new debt service of about $4.5 million. Um that assumes proceeds of 68 million because I applied

514
02:20:51.600 --> 02:21:08.720
I saw that there is a fund balance in your water impact fee fund and there's about we're predicting there's going to be about $4 million available out of that water impact fee fund to go towards this project. And I think that it's an eligible project because there is a capacity expansion component of all

515
02:21:08.720 --> 02:21:24.160
these upgrades. I think with the additional uh line going in for uh the other 16in pipe. So whether or not you know the city council wants to pledge that impact fee funds towards the project. We could take that out and

516
02:21:24.160 --> 02:21:40.080
recalculate the numbers. It'll be more like 4.7 million for annual debt service. But I just wanted to review that so you guys don't get confused when you see that $68 million of debt issuance. That's just the impact fees u bridging that gap.

517
02:21:40.080 --> 02:21:55.040
And then I just wanted to show here this is the same schedule that the consulting engineer just uh just showed the city council. I just wanted to highlight that first year because it's important for one of the scenarios that we ran for the city. The first year of total spending

518
02:21:55.040 --> 02:22:12.479
is around $8 million on these projects. So that's this next upcoming fiscal year and the total is of course 72 and a2. Okay. So this is a screenshot from the dashboard of our financial model. Um it

519
02:22:12.479 --> 02:22:27.359
can be a little intimidating at first. There's a lot going on. So I'm going to I'm just going to walk you through from top to the bottom. It's a 10-year forecast. So that first row there is the all the fiscal years that are included in the forecast. We're starting in fiscal year 2026 and it goes all the way

520
02:22:27.359 --> 02:22:41.840
out to 2036. The very next line is the assumed rate increases for the water and sewer rates. This is across the board for it would be for both both the fixed and volutric rates for water sewer reclaimed um on

521
02:22:41.840 --> 02:22:56.560
your current rate schedule. 2026 the most recent year you adopted a 5% rate increase. So that's that first number you see. And then going forward, that's our current scenario that we have in the financial model. So in this scenario, we

522
02:22:56.560 --> 02:23:12.000
have a 15% rate increase in 2027, a 10% increase in 28, and then 3% increases thereafter. The next row is the senior lean debt service coverage. So this is where the model is calculating the debt service

523
02:23:12.000 --> 02:23:28.240
coverage um uh as a metric for the uh the the utilities revenues against the debt service payment. There is a couple years that are highlighted there in yellow because you're getting a little close to that 1.5 where you're, you

524
02:23:28.240 --> 02:23:44.160
know, slightly below that 1.5. You know, speaking with the FA, it's not really a cause for concern. it'd be a cause for concern if it was levels away from that 1.5, but that's kind of within a margin of error. Um, the next row is

525
02:23:44.160 --> 02:24:00.720
the total residential bill. So, this is where we do an average residential bill, water, just water and sewer only at 4,000 gallons of usage. So, the average customer at 4,000 gallons of usage currently pays about $75 a month. that

526
02:24:00.720 --> 02:24:16.399
you'll see that 7463 in the first year with a 15% increase that would be an $11 increase monthly to $85 a month. And then the 10% increase would be about $850 to about $95 a month. And then

527
02:24:16.399 --> 02:24:32.720
those 3% increases are about $3 a month. Wow. So the three charts at the bottom, the chart off to the left hand side is the operating fund balance. This is where we're tracking the savings account for

528
02:24:32.720 --> 02:24:50.399
the water and sewer utility over that 10-year time frame. And we don't want to show forecast where those blue bars are falling below that black line. That black line is the the 25% target uh or minimum policy for the reserve balance.

529
02:24:50.399 --> 02:25:07.600
Uh the middle line there shows just it's just purelyformational. shows the revenues in the black tracking with the expenses in the orange and then your operating expenses at the bottom there and the the dashed blue line. So the difference between that dashed blue line

530
02:25:07.600 --> 02:25:23.680
and the orange is the debt service and then the cash funded capital that's coming out of the utility fund. And then off to the right you can see the funding for this water treatment renewal plan. You're basically issuing all the money upfront next year in 2027. So you'd get

531
02:25:23.680 --> 02:25:40.080
the 70 or $68 million in proceeds and start paying that debt service. We did uh working with the FA we did um contemplate or assume uh two years of interest only to try to take a little pressure off of the rates in the

532
02:25:40.080 --> 02:25:55.840
beginning uh under this conventional uh debt issuance scenario. So there is two years of interest only. Interest only is around $3.3 million in those two years. So, it's still a lot of um pressure up front, but once the after those two

533
02:25:55.840 --> 02:26:12.800
years of interest only and those rate increases catch up, you get your revenue to a level where you can adequately cover that debt service on an ongoing basis for the 30 years and then maintain the fund balance. >> So, this next scenario

534
02:26:12.800 --> 02:26:29.600
is where you don't issue the bonds next year. Instead, you you kind of um you kind of punt on it for one year and take out a line of credit, which the FA said is an option to the city to consider with basically a revolving fund. You get

535
02:26:29.600 --> 02:26:46.399
approved for max limit. Um say that max limit is $8 million, the amount needed to start the projects as part of that timing schedule. So, the city just pays interest on that in that first year. The interest is slightly higher. We're

536
02:26:46.399 --> 02:27:02.000
estimating around five and a half percent. Um, so you take out 8 million or you pay for the the beginning the initial stages of the project with the $8 million line of credit in fiscal year 2027. You make about a $450,000

537
02:27:02.000 --> 02:27:17.760
interest payment in that year. And then in 2028, you wrap that line of credit off or you you pay it off with the issuance of a bond for the same amount as what was being issued before in the first year. So I hope that's not too

538
02:27:17.760 --> 02:27:35.600
confusing, but essentially it's buying you another year where you pay interest only, relieving pressure on rates. Um, so under this scenario at the top part of the page here, we have three years of 10% rate increases rather than that 15%

539
02:27:35.600 --> 02:27:53.280
and then a 10%. So in total, it it adds up to more, right? It's 30% versus the other scenario is um is over the three-year period 28%. So slightly more just because you're not getting that

540
02:27:53.280 --> 02:28:09.040
revenue sooner. You know, the 15% generates more sooner and there's a cumulative effect of generating more money sooner than than kind of delaying it and p pushing it out. But it does um all the coverage looks really great

541
02:28:09.040 --> 02:28:24.479
under this scenario. You have more level increases 10% a year for three years rather than that 15% spike and then a 10%. Um the average impact to the monthly bill is around $7 a month, $750

542
02:28:24.479 --> 02:28:40.399
a month in that um first year and then 820 in the second year. And then there is uh if you look in the fund balance chart, there looks to be a little bit of of a building of fund balance in the latter five years of the projection

543
02:28:40.399 --> 02:28:56.160
period. I think that's important important to point out because there's a a definite lack of major CIP projects currently. We we don't have a 10-year plan. We just got that five-year plan. So, if there's anything that could occur

544
02:28:56.160 --> 02:29:13.040
in that latter five years of the 10-year projection, major capital projects, if the city will need cash to dedicate to, it's pretty important to have some fund balance built up for that purpose. Um, so that's this is the only other scenario we generated for the city at

545
02:29:13.040 --> 02:29:29.120
this time. I know there's a lot of variables flying around right now of, you know, different funding sources. It's another thing to point out if you just take out this line of credit next year gives you time to figure out are there other

546
02:29:29.120 --> 02:29:46.960
funding sources available? Um, are there grants? Are there lower cost debt options like, you know, SRF, etc. Uh so it kind of buys the city a little bit more time to to go that route, but it's definitely it's a policy decision. It's up to the city council uh where to take

547
02:29:46.960 --> 02:30:03.040
this. At this point, it's just, you know, we're workshopping it. There's no um decisions that are made on the rates at this point. Uh that happens later on in the year, but um there will have to be a decision made in terms of the rate increase for next year, especially if

548
02:30:03.040 --> 02:30:20.960
the city is planning on issuing the debt conventionally next year. the rating agencies and the financial adviser and the banks are going to want to see that the city has a commitment to raising the revenue to an adequate level to meet those debt service coverage targets.

549
02:30:20.960 --> 02:30:37.760
So the next chart here just summarizes the um the the scenarios those three scenarios and really just that next year of a rate impact. So off to the left here we have Temple Terrace's current water and sewer water and wastewater um

550
02:30:37.760 --> 02:30:55.120
bill in total uh for that average four 4,000galon usage. Then in the middle there you can see Temple Terrace with a 10% rate increase. So that black line is the average across all these uh utilities that we surveyed.

551
02:30:55.120 --> 02:31:12.560
So under the 10% scenario, 10% rate increase scenario, you're still falling below the average. And then even under the 15% rate increase scenario, you're about right at the average when compared to these entities.

552
02:31:12.560 --> 02:31:33.439
And they're mostly regional. We tried to uh get you a good, you know, survey base here of other uh local water and sewer utility providers. And then just one last slide. Um and I I think the engineering consultant also

553
02:31:33.439 --> 02:31:50.800
mentioned this, no one's rates in the area are static right now. So, it's when you look at these surveys and look at the different scenarios of rate increases for Temple Terrace, these other entities on this chart are most likely also contemplating rate increases

554
02:31:50.800 --> 02:32:06.399
for next year. We just don't know them yet. It's not public record yet. uh as that becomes available, we'll incorporate it. But there's uh rate increases all across the state, especially when dealing with the upgrades necessary to uh address the PAS

555
02:32:06.399 --> 02:32:22.240
issue. So, I've just grabbed a couple headlines there. St. Pete is raising about 9% a year. AKA is increasing about 16% in the first year and then 9% after. Uh Hernando County just uh voted to

556
02:32:22.240 --> 02:32:39.040
adopt a five-year rate plan and then Pasco is also increasing their rates, but that's just a few. There's many other rate increases that are being adopted around the state. Uh so to summarize and conclude

557
02:32:39.040 --> 02:32:56.160
the scenarios that I brought before you today, scenario one is just conventional debt issuance next year in fiscal year 2027. uh in order to meet the coverage targets and the fund balance targets under that scenario, we're recommending a 15% rate

558
02:32:56.160 --> 02:33:11.439
increase in 27 followed by a 10% rate increase in 28 and then um more nominal increases thereafter. In scenario two, the city would utilize a line of credit to fund the beginning stages of the

559
02:33:11.439 --> 02:33:28.800
project next year and then in 28 look at issuing a conventional debt, conventional borrowing. Um, under that scenario, we'd recommend a rate increase of 10% for the next three years. Um, residential bills, even under those two

560
02:33:28.800 --> 02:33:46.399
scenarios, uh, remain favorable when compared to local utilities. And of course, as things change and, you know, inflation numbers come out and maybe the construction costs get revised, we recommend that the city continue to evaluate this on an annual basis. Um, if

561
02:33:46.399 --> 02:34:03.840
there's any other funding sources, maybe these rate increases can come down and it can offset the the impact on rateayers. Uh, but at this time, this is the uh the best information we can give you. So, thank you. Thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any

562
02:34:03.840 --> 02:34:20.880
questions. >> Thank you, Mr. Napoli. Are there members of the public who wish to comment? >> I think everybody's run out of gas. >> Yes. >> Council members question. I started at this end last time. I'll start at this end this time. Council member Kravis,

563
02:34:20.880 --> 02:34:38.720
>> great presentation. Thank you very much. This is really, really good. Really thorough. I really appreciate it and thank you for the care you put into it and all the detail. Um there were one or two things I didn't understand. Um one was uh the operating fund uh numbers

564
02:34:38.720 --> 02:34:56.240
that that I saw uh in the two respective slides and I was just wondering it looked like the operating fund was really significantly higher like crossing over the $15 million mark at one point. I think it was 2035. Why uh why would it go that high? And

565
02:34:56.240 --> 02:35:13.600
also, why is there such a stark difference between the LOC model and the bond only model? >> Yeah, maybe we could maybe we could calibrate that in a little bit more, but just for example, I I have the model and I I looked at 9% over the three years and as soon as you go down to 9%, you

566
02:35:13.600 --> 02:35:28.960
see the yellow flash across the board for that debt service coverage. So the the way the model works, what's really driving these rate increases more so than having the a certain amount of money in the bank is having a certain amount of revenue to cover the debt

567
02:35:28.960 --> 02:35:46.080
service coverage. So it's a debt service coverage uh trigger more than a fund balance trigger. And that's why you're seeing the fund balance kind of raise a little bit. It's it we're not raising the rates because we need more fund balance. It's because you need more revenue to cover that annual debt service amount under

568
02:35:46.080 --> 02:36:03.040
both scenarios. So that's I think the best explanation there. But there is there is excess fund balance out there. And then if you look at the coverage, there's a little excess coverage too. You're getting above that 1.5 under that situation. You know, this is just a

569
02:36:03.040 --> 02:36:19.840
projection. We're not saying that you adopt this 10-year rate plan and and stick with it. You wouldn't continue to just add money to the bank account. you'd probably re-evaluate and lower those rate increases out in the future. I'd say the most important rate increases to focus on for now or the

570
02:36:19.840 --> 02:36:36.880
first three to four years time frame to just get the revenue up. It's kind of a shot in the arm to get the revenue up to a level where you can now bring on $4.5 million of debt that the city didn't have previously. >> Got it. So, am I understanding it

571
02:36:36.880 --> 02:36:52.800
correctly? We have to bring in a certain amount of minimum revenue. That's part of the bond term. >> Exactly. >> So, as a result of that, we are accumulating a fund balance. Is there a way that we could maybe negotiate prepayment options into the

572
02:36:52.800 --> 02:37:09.280
loan so that as the fund balance builds, it triggers and then the repayment gets made and then over time that'll lower the rate increases. >> Yeah. If you had excess fund balances, then you could then reallocate to pay off principle. I'm sure that that's something that you could that's getting out of my area of expertise. That's I

573
02:37:09.280 --> 02:37:24.560
would definitely advise the city consult the FA on the financial adviser on that. Um but that's certainly a use of fund balance. A good use of fund balance. >> Okay. Interesting. Okay. Uh that's all I got. Thank you, >> Council Member.

574
02:37:24.560 --> 02:37:41.359
>> Yes. Thank you, Mayor. Um, how would the commitment these are this is a funky question so bear with me for a second and I just conf I just compounded the complexity with the with the increasing fund balances.

575
02:37:41.359 --> 02:37:58.560
Would the change of the um with changes in our fund outside funding sources we come across a grant we come across something else would come in and and uh two three years from now and reduce it. Would that change the type of commitment we would have to make

576
02:37:58.560 --> 02:38:15.600
with the lenders in order to so that we could reduce this uh the the the the month the annual increase because you figure for scenario two you got 30% increase basically 30% cumulatively over the first two three years and 3% whereas

577
02:38:15.600 --> 02:38:30.800
the other one's 25% essentially over the first two years and then 3% thereafter. That's why the that's why your fund balance is growing. so so dramatically towards the end. Um, is there anything that we're going to have to give to a

578
02:38:30.800 --> 02:38:47.040
lender or the or the underwriters of of the uh the bonds to allow them to do this or to allow them to reduce the overall rates of the because we're going to have to we're going to have to make a commitment here that we're going to do XYZ and then

579
02:38:47.040 --> 02:39:02.399
all of a sudden we get $5 million and we can throw at this thing. >> Okay. Are we going to have to come back and continually change the commitments that we're making or is that something that you don't know at this point? >> I I think the way it works is that when

580
02:39:02.399 --> 02:39:18.560
the council finally decides on the approach you want to take and you know and you give direction to city management move forward we want to issue debt next year in the amount of $68 million. We start working on what's called the bond feasibility report which

581
02:39:18.560 --> 02:39:33.200
goes in with this issuance that basically says this is the city's plan for revenues over the next you know three years. This this is the plan this is what it looks like over a 10-year period with their debt service coverage. They are stable you know utility.

582
02:39:33.200 --> 02:39:50.800
They're basically uh uh worth investing money in. If anything changes after that, I'm not sure how it works after that bond report is issued. And I believe that there's probably stipulations with the bank on how soon you can pay off principle. Like you

583
02:39:50.800 --> 02:40:06.000
probably can't pay it off, you know, next year if oh, you know, we just got $10 million in a grant. So, um I really it's timing is an important thing. Uh and that's why that the I I like the line of credit option because it kind of

584
02:40:06.000 --> 02:40:21.920
buys the city an additional year to do more factf finding with these funding sources and um you know maybe there's other you know uh ways to reduce that principle that you have to issue and to any amount that you can reduce that

585
02:40:21.920 --> 02:40:38.800
annual debt service payment you reduce the pressure on rateayers and the rate increases that are necessary. >> I would agree with that. the first year is the line of credit. Um, and then do the do the wraparound to to to absorb that. Um, I know I've done industrial

586
02:40:38.800 --> 02:40:54.800
revenue bonds and it's oh my god it's a nightmare. We only and I only did 6 million not not uh you know 72 73 million. Um I think that's all I have right now. But there's good information. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Absolutely.

587
02:40:54.800 --> 02:41:09.600
>> Yes. Commissioner B. >> So I I appreciate Mr. Napoli taken a stab at answering these questions, but they're outside of like he's he admitted it's a little bit outside his wheelhouse. He's the rate expert. Uh we do have a financial adviser. We also have a bond counsel that you've all met before. So, uh what I will do, Mr.

588
02:41:09.600 --> 02:41:24.880
Ingram is we're making notes of all the questions that are coming up and we will be consulting with the financial adviser and bond council trying to get some of these answers. I know with the general obligation bond, the prepayment within the first 10 years was not really a feasible item from what Mr. Row

589
02:41:24.880 --> 02:41:40.960
explained to us and Mr. Draper as well. Uh, but we'll ask the same question in terms of a revenue bond if the same stipulations apply and we'll get all that information back to you. >> Thank you, Vice Mayor. >> No questions. Council member Fernandez, >> I have a couple of things. Um, one, I I

590
02:41:40.960 --> 02:41:55.680
just want to start off for anybody watching or who will watch. Um this is different from a general obligation bond because we are discussing funding in an enterprise fund and an enterprise fund

591
02:41:55.680 --> 02:42:12.240
in a governmental entity means that all operating expenses capital renewal replacement projects etc all have to be paid by the specific fees established and charged to the customers or the end

592
02:42:12.240 --> 02:42:28.800
users. So, I just just to clarify, but that's different. Um, and then I did want to answer the question about the fund balance and why it might be showing such an increase as years go by. And I think that has to do more with uh not

593
02:42:28.800 --> 02:42:46.479
having capital improvement dollars allocated into those future years that would be using fund balance. So it looks like the fund balance is very high, but theoretically there should be capital improvement projects included in

594
02:42:46.479 --> 02:43:02.880
that estimate and that would if it if it was then that fund balance would be lower based on that revenue. But that's what I think is why. But anyway, um I want to ask about uh because we're talking about a full renewal,

595
02:43:02.880 --> 02:43:19.280
replacement, overhaul, complete overhaul of the water treatment system, and we have a five-year capital plan for specifically renewal replacement and capital items. Are any of the capital

596
02:43:19.280 --> 02:43:42.479
items that we were looking at funding in the next five years actually going to be taken care of under this all-encompassing project? >> So when the finance director myself met

597
02:43:42.479 --> 02:43:58.479
with Mr. Napoli, we reviewed the capital projects. We did remove or strike out a few of those items that duplicated their effort. So, as the previous question was asked pretty much a similar fashion, we have to go back through the capital item and we the capital list and we will pull

598
02:43:58.479 --> 02:44:13.760
out a few of those items that are duplicates that are in the 5-year schedule. There are not a lot of those. Um, but keep in mind that that five-year capital is not just only the water plant. That is the entire distribution system and the wastewater collection system. So, there's a lot of projects on

599
02:44:13.760 --> 02:44:27.680
that list. >> Okay. So that was one of the things I wanted to um I wanted to clarify. And then the the rate estimate um assumptions

600
02:44:27.680 --> 02:44:45.120
when you calculated this did you take into account because if we do this project we will have a new water treatment facility which might not need the same level of of renewal replacement

601
02:44:45.120 --> 02:45:02.640
repairs as a 40year-old. So, how did you assume capital projects and I know it encompasses the full but h how did you assume that the cost of capital projects going forward to

602
02:45:02.640 --> 02:45:17.439
establish a rate? We took the five-year CIP um and we didn't assume any increase of efficiencies or or or reductions in operate annual operating costs related

603
02:45:17.439 --> 02:45:33.359
to the new water treatment plant. So if those numbers are available, we could work them in to the forecast. Um if there's estimates of how you know um the renewal and replacement might you the city might see savings on on some of

604
02:45:33.359 --> 02:45:48.160
those items. uh related to the new plant. We can work that into the forecast, but there's it's kind of a status quo assumption of uh from that standpoint. We we have the five-year forecast and then we took average amounts for renewal and replacement

605
02:45:48.160 --> 02:46:04.000
going forward based on that five years. Um average for renewal and replacement and then average for the water util like the water and sewer utility fund because they fund a few projects as well that um there's two separate funds. there were

606
02:46:04.000 --> 02:46:20.720
no one replacement fund and then the ut the operating fund. >> So then that leads me to my next question and that is we have been told based on the report that we just discussed that into the future our um operating costs might be more expensive

607
02:46:20.720 --> 02:46:36.479
than they are now just because of the the nanoiltration technology or whatever technology might be put in place. Was that um did you use existing um operating expense to

608
02:46:36.479 --> 02:46:52.720
uh estimate these rates or did you incorporate in the anticipated expense or increase in operations? >> I'm glad you brought that up because there we're using the current operations expenses. We didn't know about the the additional potential additional

609
02:46:52.720 --> 02:47:08.080
operating expenses in the future. I assume those wouldn't take place until after the water treatment plant is up and operational. So 2031, 2032. So that could potentially impact those projected rate increases out there, but not in the

610
02:47:08.080 --> 02:47:23.279
order of magnitude that you're seeing for this debt service coverage. I think more like instead of 3% out there, you'd probably see 4% or 5%, you know, similar to that ongoing kind of cost escalation increase that the city's used to for

611
02:47:23.279 --> 02:47:39.600
rates just because if all else remains equal, if you're not doing this huge project, costs still increase year-over-year, chemicals, fuel, um, salaries, etc. So, next time I come before you, I'll have that operating cost factored into the long-term

612
02:47:39.600 --> 02:47:54.720
projection in those outer years. And you might not see those 3%s next time. It's more like four or 5%. >> Okay. Then my my last question really is about um what happens if the so we

613
02:47:54.720 --> 02:48:09.840
looked at the total of the 72 million um but I think anybody here can practically expect that construction doesn't ever come in at what you estimate. I mean what would h what would

614
02:48:09.840 --> 02:48:27.920
need to happen with our rates and I'm talking about process. So let's say we've agreed to the project. We started with the line of credit. So we know what our initial rate increases would need to be. But then let's say the project fin comes in at a an an end

615
02:48:27.920 --> 02:48:43.120
total of 95 million. Is this something that the city is going to undertake each year to calculate because we would then know our debt service. So then we would ba basically it would just be among

616
02:48:43.120 --> 02:49:00.800
uh the city's duty to to calculate it or will it be um somebody from outside the city coming in and actually doing a review saying here's what your rates need to be? >> Uh I well we'd be happy to help the city with that. Um, of course, and I think

617
02:49:00.800 --> 02:49:18.080
under this scenario next year, say do the line of credit scenario, you know, we get an updated construction cost estimate next year, the project is now $90 million instead of 72. And then, you know, that before the debt was issued and before, you know, you've undertook

618
02:49:18.080 --> 02:49:33.600
that those proceedings, we would have to update these assumptions. there would like there would be a rate impact on that and we'd have to calibrate the model to show okay now under this $90 million scenario these are what the rates need to be in

619
02:49:33.600 --> 02:49:48.160
order to meet these debt service coverage targets and as long as that happens before you know the debt is issued I don't really know what would happen after the debt is issued and then the construction costs go up I guess you'd have to issue additional debt um

620
02:49:48.160 --> 02:50:04.479
in a separate borrowing but just let's just say next year we come back and the amount that's needed is much higher, we would update these rate increases. So that we're giving a we'd be, you know, required to give a sustainable plan uh

621
02:50:04.479 --> 02:50:21.200
to the bank uh in accordance with that debt issuance that this these are the city's projected utility rate revenues and they're sufficient to cover that debt service uh over the long-term period. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Napoli. I only have two questions, one for you and one for Mr.

622
02:50:21.200 --> 02:50:39.439
Be. And first one for you. Can you put scenario two slide back up? Brian, can we get that? Scenario two. There we go. This is the one that presupposes a line of credit for the first year. So,

623
02:50:39.439 --> 02:50:55.840
this is getting a little ahead of where we are now. We haven't even decided to do this, much less how to pay for it. But since you're here, um, and I'm can't I don't know what the council when we get to that. I don't know what we'll ultimately say, but this is what's on my

624
02:50:55.840 --> 02:51:12.399
mind when I see this. Um, I will likely ask at if we when we get to making a real decision on this what we can do to even lessen the initial impact if there's a possibility to

625
02:51:12.399 --> 02:51:29.040
lessen that even more and maybe go a two-year line of credit or even a even up to a 30 up to a 36-month line of credit. I'm not a finance guy, but what I'm getting at is this is I I am very cognizant that there are people in our

626
02:51:29.040 --> 02:51:46.399
city that are feeling a pinch. And remember, our water service area goes outside the city, too. So, it's not just our residents, it's people in our service area. It's easy to say, well, you know, it's only $7 or $8 a month. But it's really

627
02:51:46.399 --> 02:52:03.840
not because they're paying $4 a gallon for gas all of a sudden, right? They're they're paying more every time they go to Publix. They're paying more for their insurance. They're paying more for So, it's not just I mean, we're we're famous for that. Not we, but people are famous

628
02:52:03.840 --> 02:52:18.720
for saying, "Well, it's only five bucks a month." But it's really not only five bucks because it's five bucks here and 12 bucks here and 10 bucks here and it's it's cumulative on people. And so, um, the point I'm trying to make is I

629
02:52:18.720 --> 02:52:34.000
don't want to finance a car for 10 years, right? I wouldn't do that because you got a piece of junk car and you're still paying interest. But I would be willing to maybe not get the best debt terms in order to smooth this out for

630
02:52:34.000 --> 02:52:49.359
the rateayers. I I am concerned that there are a lot of people in our service area that are struggling and they they are at or below poverty level. They're not they're not living on the golf course. These are

631
02:52:49.359 --> 02:53:04.479
people living in the apartments and the you know and and uh so anyway that that's a future question probably. But >> yeah, I I can't say anything now, but I'll definitely work with the financial adviser to see if there's any more flex. >> Well, don't do too much because that's just my opinion talking to you. It's not

632
02:53:04.479 --> 02:53:21.760
the council's direction. So, um, my second question, Mr. B, and I I don't know if you'll have the answer to this. We're throwing a lot of stuff at the wall tonight, so I don't expect you to have every answer, but when when and if it comes time to do

633
02:53:21.760 --> 02:53:39.760
this, this is a huge undertaking. I mean, a year'sl long construction project that just revolves from one thing to the next. I I we can't take our eye off the ball for all the other stuff we have going on with storm drains and wastewater and

634
02:53:39.760 --> 02:53:55.359
water main replacements and sidewalks and I mean we public works and utilities has a ton of stuff going on right now. They're they're well everybody does. All the departments are really working um

635
02:53:55.359 --> 02:54:11.760
double time right now. How are we going to manage a construction job that's multiple years and is so detailed and technical? I mean, because I don't see any construction

636
02:54:11.760 --> 02:54:27.359
like we hired an owner's agent or anything. I don't see any money in there for that. So, what are we going to do? >> That is a good question. Um, I have to have the same thought as we were going through it this evening. So, I we're going to have to um first of all, let me

637
02:54:27.359 --> 02:54:43.279
thank the public works utilities folks if I could. It took a lot to get to this point. A lot of work, and I appreciate the consultants work, both Mr. Napoli, Miss Telton, and CHA, and everybody, but I I got to thank our team first because they they did a lot to to get here. So,

638
02:54:43.279 --> 02:54:59.040
thank them for that. And there is a lot of work as you've recognized going forward. So, we're going to we're going to have to have a conversation about that. Um, and there may be, again, I'm just reacting to your question at this point. It may be that we have to account for some sort of construction manager as

639
02:54:59.040 --> 02:55:13.600
part of the the overall package um to have somebody dedicated to just pursuing this project and the scale of this project going forward. Um, but it's still a premature to get there, but we'll we'll talk about that as we move move along.

640
02:55:13.600 --> 02:55:30.560
>> Okay, Mr. Napoli, thank you very much. >> Mr. Talton, thank you very much. also for for your work and obviously more to come on on this. So, council, is there any new business or are there board reports? Council member Kravitz,

641
02:55:30.560 --> 02:55:45.359
>> I'm not on the previous topic, if I may. Sure. >> Um, strongly in favor of getting a construction manager. I think that also just for the sake of assigning responsibility to one person so that it's clear who's accountable. Uh that's

642
02:55:45.359 --> 02:56:01.680
really critical and we should think about how to structure that contract because if things don't work out well and we run into issues, we might need someone else. So it shouldn't it should be clear from the onset when we're hiring that person. I think that it is for the execution of this project. It's not a permanent position, although

643
02:56:01.680 --> 02:56:17.920
it could become one possibly. But um that is a very good idea and I think that would be great. Um and and just on the other point, I want to be a little hesitant about um pushing too much of the pain into the future for this loan because, you know, a lot of the time

644
02:56:17.920 --> 02:56:33.520
when that kind of thing happens, it's uh younger people who end up paying the burden. Um if we preserve the rates for three or four years or five years or whatever it may be, all of that pain will be distributed toward the back end. So that's people who are coming into

645
02:56:33.520 --> 02:56:48.399
Temple Terrace later or mostly younger people and people are just going to feel the pain later on and it'll be more pain than it could have been otherwise. So I agree about maybe having a um an intermediate period in the beginning because we won't need the full amount of

646
02:56:48.399 --> 02:57:04.560
money to start with anyway. It doesn't make sense to carry that debt service if we're not using the money for the project. But um to to try and like preserve rates for an indefinite period of time or even even longer than it's strictly necessary, I'm very skeptical

647
02:57:04.560 --> 02:57:21.680
of that. I think we should start paying back the loan when we can. We should um we should try to make sure that the rates go up and I've seen this happen before. This year, for example, we all voted to take 500,000 out of a different funding source in order to keep utility rates lower. And and you know, as we

648
02:57:21.680 --> 02:57:38.000
see, we we're up against bigger problems than that. So, I'm I'm I'm not a huge fan of subsidizing the utility rates. Um, I don't think it's the right thing to do because it it it doesn't convey honesty about what the system costs to the people who are using it. And I think that's really important that we we make

649
02:57:38.000 --> 02:57:53.359
it transparent so that everyone can see what the rate is that they're paying. And it doesn't mean that people three or four years from now are going to end up paying more for their water so that people in the next two or three years could pay less. So, I think spreading that pain out equally over the 30-year term of that loan, that's the whole

650
02:57:53.359 --> 02:58:10.640
point of bonding it out. So, that's my thought on that. That's all I got. >> Did not mean the curtailed discussion. I was just trying to get us out of here, vice >> and I'll try to get us out of here, too. But I want to know what's the next step. I mean, we're going to have a town hall and then a period of time for our staff

651
02:58:10.640 --> 02:58:25.439
to work on some things and the consultants on some questions and then are we going to have maybe a workshop on that or go right into a council meeting? We don't have to answer that tonight. I just I would like to kind of know what the plan's going to be. >> So, there are a lot of moving parts

652
02:58:25.439 --> 02:58:42.399
here. Um, you know, you know me typically I like to give you some pretty precise time frames and I'm not able to right now. What I can tell you is definitely next week on Tuesday at 6 o'clock in Lightoot will be doing the town hall. Uh we're going to refine some of the presentations based on the input that we've gathered here tonight. Uh Mr.

653
02:58:42.399 --> 02:58:58.080
Lapley will be there again, Mr. Telton and his team. Um um and so we'll we'll go through uh what we've presented. Um get get the public's input as well. I will be coming back to you at some point whether it's a workshop or as part of a

654
02:58:58.080 --> 02:59:15.840
council agenda. I don't have that well defined just yet, but there will be some an action that I will probably need to get direction because we are putting together the budget for for next year. So, if we're going to be doing things like lines of credit and things like that that I'm going to need some direction um at the outside at the very

655
02:59:15.840 --> 02:59:32.479
outside would be obviously be talking about it at our July 6 budget workshop, but I think I'd I'd like to get that direction prior to that. It's just again there's not a whole lot of time if you look at the calendar right now. things are getting kind of squeezed. Um but uh once we get a better handle on this,

656
02:59:32.479 --> 02:59:48.800
obviously we'll be we'll let the council know immediately. >> Member Fernandez. >> So So my question or or request I mean I'd really like to have a well

657
02:59:48.800 --> 03:00:05.600
delineated pros and cons. I I am uh ve I'm very clear with the recommendation that if we move forward with a full renewal of our water treatment system that it would be the nano filtration

658
03:00:05.600 --> 03:00:23.520
technology but I think we need a a very I I wouldn't say very precise but a more precise layout of the full cost of execution of that and then the full cost and I know we can't get a yes or no from

659
03:00:23.520 --> 03:00:38.319
the city of Tampa or Hillsboro County about connecting to their systems. And I'm not saying that I that I want us to look at the three scenarios. I do think that we could get an answer from Hillsboro County or city of andor city

660
03:00:38.319 --> 03:00:54.160
of Tampa. I mean, do they even have the capacity to do to to connect to us without some sort of of Tampa Bay water agreement or swift mud or or you know I think that they would be able to say

661
03:00:54.160 --> 03:01:12.160
that and if the if they say absolutely not we don't have any capacity to do that then we know that those that that uh possibility is just not a and but if they say well we don't know we might have the capacity Then I think we need to look at that

662
03:01:12.160 --> 03:01:29.120
scenario, the full cost of what it would be our best estimate to connect. And if today's water rates are $4 per thousand gallons, we know that that's not what that water rate would be because we know that they're looking at

663
03:01:29.120 --> 03:01:46.560
a hund00 million investment in their water treatment. So we know that rate would be passed on. I mean, so yes, we might be having to make a lot of assumptions and some extrapolation, but I'd like to see those again, if they say we don't know,

664
03:01:46.560 --> 03:02:02.800
we might have some capacity, the three scenarios a little more fleshed out so that we can um may and this and I'm not necessarily asking for this to be done at the town hall meeting, but for me to make a decision, I need to have that

665
03:02:02.800 --> 03:02:19.760
information. So that's my request. >> Our discussion if I may to your to your to your point Cand um yeah we need we need to they'll be able to say that

666
03:02:19.760 --> 03:02:36.800
we have this this issue this issue this issue this issue and that could become part of our decision tree. I agree with with the mayor. They're not going to be able to give us a yes or no at this point, but they'll be able to say if I can get this, this, this, and this, then it sound it's something we could possibly do. I think that'll be the the

667
03:02:36.800 --> 03:02:53.439
probably the best information that we could potentially guess in order for us to make a decision. But I agree. >> Okay. Very good. Um, now, is there any new business or are there board reports? Council

668
03:02:53.439 --> 03:03:10.120
>> old business anymore on the >> I'm sorry. Did we not have a old business item previously at one point or is that missing from this? >> We did. Doesn't seem to be one there. Did you have any old business, council? >> We have two items of old business. >> Okay, council member. >> Um, thank you. Uh,

669
03:03:10.880 --> 03:03:26.399
um, in any case, uh, sorry to the city manager, two questions. Um, u Joel Brown, Tiko, anything happened there? >> Uh, so I I did have conversations with with Mr. Brown. Um, I apologize. because I don't have the synopsis right in front

670
03:03:26.399 --> 03:03:42.640
of me, but I will provide it to the city council this weekend. Your update. >> Um, second one was um Sunnyside Road that community meeting. Is that uh is there a status update on that? >> The traffic calming project, >> Mr. Warmers, do you are you prepared to

671
03:03:42.640 --> 03:03:58.800
answer that? >> We'll we'll get back to you on that as well as to status. >> That's all I got. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Any other old business, new business, board reports? Okay. Okay. City manager's report. >> I do not have anything. >> City attorney's report.

672
03:03:58.800 --> 03:04:13.200
>> Uh, nothing today. >> Council, any questions for Mr. B or Mr. >> Yes, sir. >> Ernie, >> Mr. Mueller. >> If there are no questions for the city manager or city attorney and nothing more to come before the council, we will

673
03:04:13.200 --> 03:04:16.439
stand adjourned.