Are we, uh, Brian, are we good back there with the audio and video. OK, I don't have any monitor up here. I don't know if I've done something wrong and. OK, so I would like to She
Ah, here we go. Thank you. I'll call the meeting to order. Welcome everybody to the March 4th meeting of the Temple Terrace City Council. Uh, welcome to all of our guests. It's good to see everybody. Um Where are we here, please, I'd
like to remind everybody to please silence your electronic devices, um, and I'm just taking a little poll here who that guy is gonna be tonight whose phone's gonna ring, right? Probably one of us, so if you would please stand and join me in the invitation and the
pledge. Lord, we pray tonight for peace both within our own country and throughout the world. We pray for our Muslim neighbors during this holy season of Ramadan, may peace be upon them. We pray for those who are less fortunate than us
both at home and throughout the world and we, and may we never forget our duty to help others. We ask for wisdom and compassion tonight as we engage in the noble but sometimes difficult task of self-governance. Help us to remember that despite our flaws
and differences, our nation is still the greatest republic the world has ever produced. Amen. pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.
One. Thank you. So for those of you who don't visit us very often, uh, we have a Tradition in the city of Temple Terrace now that we begin each meeting with a fun or interesting fact about the city of Temple
Terrace or the region that we're in. And tonight, that duty falls on council member Fernandez. Good evening, everyone, um. Temple terrace has been a unique place to live, depending on when you were here. So if you were here in the
1920s, uh, it was a very popular social destination, our country club had the um. Beautiful hotels, which is now Sutton Hall, but um people came from all over the north to
enjoy the winters in Florida and hunt and golf and do all kinds of things and then things slowed down. But It still was a beautiful place to live, not as many celebrities around and
then in 1972. October 1972 is when this article is from, but the golf tournament was actually November 26, 20 and 27th, 1972 at our country club and then the celebrities were
back, so this is the, uh, this is the time for the first annual Johnny Bench invitational. And some of the celebrity players were Charlie Pride, Buck Owens, Lloyd Nolan, Tom Harmon. Uh, TV personality
George Lindsay, which. His, uh, he was better known as Gooper, but you had to watch the television show to know that, um, so Johnny Bench was the Cincinnati Reds catcher and he was putting on this tournament
that was actually sponsored by the Tampa JCs and gold. Silver and bronze sponsorships were available, and tickets were on sale at Area Sears, Montgomery Ward and Moss Brothers stores,
as well as local pro shops, so that tournament was the first annual Johnny Bench. Celebrity tournament and I don't know how many there were after it, but we do have. Thanks to a generous donation from one of
our area citizens a we have the program, a program from this time period and it, you might not be able to pick it up on the camera, but it is actually autographed by Johnny Bench. So the, the celebrities were back
in Temple Terrace to put on a golf tournament and it was a. Um, I don't know exactly how much it cost. It was um. Obviously, a fundraiser tournament. I'm gonna see if I
can get the program out So I can Get a little more. So it's got And it's a very interesting program, so it's got all the,
the typical things the program will have for the. Um Important stores and information and of course, no, Glen Campbell was there. OK, so I, I do happen to know that we, we moved to
Temple Terres in February of 1972, and my mother participated in this golf tournament driving a golf cart, and she met Glen Campbell. I don't, I, I've heard he was very dreamy, so there's. So
you've got all kinds of, you've got background on the Temple Terrace, Country Club. And the golf course which those of you realize that. The community was built around the golf course and it has been a central part
of this community from its inception, and then you can see that that continued on. Now I don't know how long this golf tournament went on. But I do know that it was exciting for the people who live here and we're we're grateful that we
have this. To Hopefully display at some point, and I wanted to segue into the fact that Right now this and other temple Terrace memorabilia are housed
in various locations, uh, a lot of it is in private ownership and in people's houses and some of it is stored in the library in a cabinet. And this would be a really good time as we're fast approaching our 100 year anniversary to think about
re-energizing the temple terrace preservation Society, which has existed in the past but is not active right now. And hopefully. As we're, as we're getting into this anniversary, we can get citizens to be very interested
in. Getting the preservation Society energized and helping the city find a place where we can. Properly keep and store our memorabilia as well as
display them for citizens to be able to see the great history of What is a little town because you know you think I grew up here from 72. And Obviously for a while and went away to college and came back,
but um, you know, we at some point became known as a bedroom community. For Tampa and people just they lived here but they worked in the city of Tampa prevalently and it's very nice that if, if we could have a
place that helps display and help. Keep alive the history and remind people that this city has been. A very key component to the social life and the development of this
area, so that is my historic fact. Thank you, council member. Yeah. Good, thank you. Thank you very much so first item is uh we have a proclamation for Bike Month and I'd like to invite Julie Bond uh to
approach the podium. Mrs. Bond is a senior researcher associate with the Center for Urban Transportation Research in which we normally just call cutter that's uh over on USF's campus and so Mrs. Bond is a valuable community partner of
ours as is Cutter and uh helps make a lot of our events possible so thank you and we are here to uh proclaim bike Month and so. Uh, for more than a century, the bicycle has been a utilitarian economical environmentally sound and
effective means of personal transportation. Recreation and fitness, the city of Temple Terrace encourages the use of bicycles as a means of transportation and recognizes bicycles as a legitimate user as legitimate roadway users, the city of Temple Terrace
promote safe and responsible bicycling and is committed to incorporating the development of bicycle facilities in the vision for revitalizing our city and so thank you for being with us, Mr. Bond. Would you like to say a few words? Thank you, Mayor Ross and city council. It's an honor to be
here and accept the proclamation, and this is the, uh, I want to mention this is the 11th year of the mayor's bike ride, which is on Friday. I've been here for every single one of them and I remember when we first started the bike ride, so everyone was very excited
and I think it's been great to see many of you every year there. And so again, I hope you will all uh join us. It's a great way for the mayor to show his support of bicycling and Temple Terrace. Uh, we have many people who bicycle to get around and so, um, I hope that
all of you will support, uh, even safer routes and, uh, just continue the great work with bicycling, so thank you very much. I'm honored to be here. All right. I pick up the right
one. And also, uh, Brenton with Cutter is here and he is going to show everyone, so I'm inviting everyone here, the bicycle shirt that is commemorating. The 100 year um and so everyone who shows up on
Friday at 7:30 to bike will receive a t-shirt and then it's a very leisurely, you say 3.9-ish. Oh, I didn't even 2. Yeah. 2.9, sorry, I didn't mean to add that mile on. We have a detour this year though. We have some utility work going on,
yeah, and so a very leisurely, um, and so we invite everyone to come out and we have uh some refreshments and safety items, so we'd love to see everybody out and biking in the community.
And that's for you, Mayor. You. Color this year. It is. I know. I think the design is really nice. I think you're good. You
Yes, I got this down 321. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Next I am honored to invite
Sister Magda Ecada Eadi Salah to the podium, and I'm sure I said that wrong. I'm, I'm so I, uh, I wanna introduce sister to everybody, for those of you who may not have had an opportunity to meet her. She is, um, really
an esteemed leader uh in the Muslim community here in Temple Terrace and also within the city of Tumble Terrace and so we're very honored to have her. Um, she's a very accomplished woman. I could read along bio here, but just some highlights as she has been the leader of
both the Universal Academy of Florida and the American Youth Academy in Tampa, uh, for each for over 11 years at each school. Uh, she had guided both schools through the accreditation process and secured IB status for the American Youth Academy. He
currently heads, uh, Bon Academy, um, which is an excellent school here in the city, and she's president of Radiant Hands since 2014. Radiant hands is uh organization that supports women, refugees, families, um,
to, to get established and to make living and obtain homes and housing and just get their feet under them and so, uh, really very interesting person and we're very honored to have you here. And I'd like you, uh, and she's here to receive a proclamation and recognition of
the holy season of Ramadan, and so the proclamation reads, whereas freedom of religion holds the distinction has a cherished right and a foundational value upon which the laws and ethics of the United States are based. And enriched by the unparalleled
diversity of its residents, the city of Temple Terrace takes great pride in supporting individuals who express their religious freedom and varied cultural traditions. Islam is the 2nd largest religion in the world, and there are millions of Muslim Americans, both
immigrants and native born of diverse backgrounds and beliefs. Temple Terrace, as most of us know, is home to a large Muslim community, many of whom are with us tonight. Uh, the followers of the Islamic faith, Ramadan. For the followers of
the Islamic faith, Ramadan is the holiest month of the Islamic calendar. It's regarded as a time for spiritual reflection, solidarity with the less fortunate and the bridging of differences between people over a shared commitment to faith. Now, therefore I, Andrew
Ross, by virtue of authority vested in me as mayor of the city of Temple Terrace, Florida, encouraged the community to reflect on the history and contributions of Muslims and temple terrorists through the celebration of Ramadan and Muslim heritage Month. So, Sister, would you please say a few words? You know, there's so
much to say about the city of Temple Terrace. I've been here as a resident and as my place of work for over 30 years, um, City of Temple Terrace has always been very welcoming to us as a community and to schools in general, my, my background is mainly education and city of Temple Terrace, I
think has. Reached out to all the schools for all the years I've been here for from the beginning of the year with a new teacher breakfast to the end of the year for our outstanding student awards, um, and we've always tried to teach our students that um our schools in Islamic school and we always try to teach them that we look for the
similarities we have in our religions instead of the differences, um, one of our teachers is Catholic and she'll be talking them tomorrow about Ash Wednesday and the start of Lent and she actually started her fast on Saturday when we started our fast. She started a little bit early, um, in solidarity. with the students,
so the Muslim Heritage Month proclamation is uh appreciated by everybody in Temple Terrace. I think Muslim and non-Muslim alike, um, and it gives our children, um, some recognition of who they are and when our students see themselves
recognized, they become more active in their own communities and they become uh. Positive citizens hopefully in this community and throughout the this beautiful country, so I thank you we're honored to accept the proclamation and um we look forward to a partnership, um, it was very nice watching the video you had
on the beginning, Aminahan, one of our, uh, Muslim members of the community. She was American, Canadian, Indian. Very ethnically diverse, and she, I think she's been given all 6 murals for the um for the city of Temple Terrace, so it's nice. It was nice seeing that when we came in and we hope we have a
long partnership that's successful for all of us. Thank you very much. Let's give a round of applause. Yeah. Yeah.
No Get Alright,, 321. Thank you. You guys want to come up? Yes, please. Come on. called it.
that Hi, how are you? How are you doing. Right camera can't see you. No, that's true. There's enough people. Come on, yeah. Now the video can see us.
It's not It's not It's not me It's not me. I'm good we'll get It's not me. I'm good we'll get I'm good I'm good. She, she's my representative. Right, can you try screaming it a little bit closer. No, perfect. OK. Me
21. Mary, can you take one with some earphone? I think. Oh, we're gonna get one from Maria, no, it's our phone, but yes.
Yeah Alright, 321. 321. Thank
you thank you. Oh. All You it. Can I have uh 32nd announcement
please. Yeah. 0,, 32nd announcement. Yes. Uh, in commemoration of, uh, and starting of the, uh, Heritage Month, uh, for Muslims. We have brought some gifts to everybody
of the audience here to get them to test how Muslims break their fast, so the breaking of the fast is traditional and uh we just bought some gifts for them, please that allow Thank you very much. Thank you. And there's no eating in the
council chambers, right? We have carpeting here so all right, thank you folks for coming. So has everybody had an opportunity to review the minutes from our meeting on February 18th, and if so, is there a motion. To prove 2nd.
Any corrections to the minutes? If not, all those in favor say aye I opposed. None minutes are adopted. Next is a person's wishing to be heard on items not listed on the agenda or
items on the consent agenda. We. For Mr. Loeb, I have your request. We'll just give it a minute. Just give it a minute. Thank you. Good night. Take
care. Thank you. Bye-bye. OK, for those persons wishing to address the council on items not listed on the agenda or items on the consent agenda, there are forms in the back of the room, um, we do ask that speakers come to the podium and
begin with their name and city of residence, and we, uh, have a 3 minute time limit imposed on all speakers, so I currently have one request to speak for Mr. Loeb. Mr. Loeb, you are up, Mr. Mayor. Sorry, just interrupt, but just in reference to consent agenda, if anyone's speaking to it. The
items have been, yeah, but that. It's, yeah, I was gonna, yeah, thank you. Mr. Loeb, all set. Good evening. Uh, good evening. My name is Charles Love from Terrace Park, and I went down
yesterday to the Hartford meeting wearing the shirt, and it got the attention of uh Councilman Louis Viera of Tampa, and I reminded him about the birthday party coming up on May 3rd, so I did wanna mention that. I went down there to talk about some other things and a
couple and had to do with Temple Terrace. Other things can wait, but the one thing I did want to point out to remind you all, if you all want to do this is to try to get To try to either go with sunshine or hard plus if you do want to help the residents, uh, who are shut-ins
to come to your party on May 3rd. Uh, I don't know how progresses that is going, but I hope, uh, I hope something can be arranged for them. Uh, another thing is that you saw that the, the Muslim folks of the Muslim lady. I also saw the
woman who was doing the painting over it lightfoot. And I told her I came up with an idea that she liked a lot, and that is toward putting some sort of illumination so that the paintings can be seen at night, especially over on Fifty-Sixth Street and uh and
why we, uh, over by, um. Over by the Lightfoot Center. But it was nice to meet her and all that. She seems like like like this lady here that just came over very, very nice lady. Uh, finally, I did want to mention something about the library, uh,
mainly about the library book sale that's coming up yet again and uh last time, uh even with a relatively limited stock of books, uh, uh, relative to what I've usually seen there. There
was $1,243 made officially on the sale. Uh, the library sale is coming up on Thursday, March 20th and through Saturday, March. 22nd. I hope we can get people over there and all that and have a good turnout again.
And hopefully there'll be a little few more books this time and uh. I guess it's anything else, yeah, that's about it for me tonight. And I am glad, by the way, obviously about the program that it was founded. Thank you for the minutes on from that time. Thank you Mr.
Loeb. Are there other members of the public? who wish to speak, seeing none. OK, we have one public hearing tonight, uh, no, first of all, let me, uh, the consent agenda, all three items on the consent agenda are being pulled and postponed
because some of the specifications on the uh purchases have changed at the last minute. So we will see these items back before us at the I would assume the next meeting, but, uh, the specification changes came in at a very late hour and there
was inadequate time to change them, so we will have no consent agenda tonight. We have one public hearing and it is the first public hearing and first reading of an ordinance adopting a comprehensive plan, future land use map amendment for 10851 Raulerson Ranch Road,
and I will open the public hearing in our city planner Miranda Naya is here to explain. Good evening. Mayor. Good evening, City council. Tonight is the first reading and first public hearing, a comprehensive
plan amendment, CPA 2402. The property is currently vacant and located near the corner of I-75 and Fowler Avenue. It is accessed by Raulerson Ranch Road, which is a local roadway. Uh, counsel, as you're aware,
the city and the property owner executed a purchase and sales agreement that was recently amended in October. For a brief recap. These were the two conceptual plans as part of that agreement for apartments. The difference between the two
was uh the proposed location of the gatehouse, and recently the applicant has informed us that they would be proceeding with option A due to discussions with F. uh denying their request. Here is the conceptual
rendering mitted with the agreement. For this application, the applicant is requesting to amend the future land use district from public, semi-public to residential 18, uh, residential 18 is generally
for multi-family use. This will allow the applicant to be able to build up to 18 units per acre, uh, changing the future land use from public, semi-public to residential 18 will allow for the number of units as presented in the conceptual plan. For this 20
acre site, uh, the maximum allowed density is 360 units, which is also the number that the applicant has requested. The planning commission. Uh, adopted a resolution for this project as well and finds the
requested, uh, map amendment consistent with the Temple Terrace Comprehensive Plan, and they will give a short presentation at the next hearing. Staff recommends approval of CPA 2402 on first reading in public hearing and to schedule the second reading
public hearing for March 18th. That is all. Thank you, and I'm here for any questions. Thank you. Are there members of the public who wish to comment on this item. Sing Nun, um, I see the owner's representatives are here or would you like to add
anything to it? It's voluntary, you can or you don't have to you. Very well, thank you. Uh, OK, council members, questions for staff or for the owner's representatives. Oh I have a question. Council member Fernandez. So can you put.
Option A, so I know we discussed a lot about, um, FDOT possibly vacating the road. It doesn't connect. To anything, correct? But yeah, it dead ends
at their property so the difference between option A and option B. Um, I don't know if I can. I don't think I can But if you look at the gatehouses between, you can see that, uh, the, the gatehouse was gonna be
closer to the road and on option B, as opposed to option A, right? So this road, which is the access road. That goes in front of it. It's the way you would, it's the only way you could access the property, correct? And so that road as it
comes around and curves to the top. Right It just, that that's just a dead end, correct? It doesn't connect to anything. OK. So where does the, how? Just for people that are not
necessarily familiar with this location. How would you get? Onto this access road to get access to the property. From, where does it come in from? Now, the road to referencing is
Raulerson Ran Road. I'm sorry, just to preserve the record, can you state your name? Yes, sir. Sorry, Brian Smith. Um, and, uh, so he asked it from a traffic signal at the corner of 301 and Raulerson Ranch Road and headed north on Rollerson
Ranch Road and it does dead end into their property. So it to go forward with this project, you're not asking for any other changes to, I mean, I understand why, why you requested potentially that the
FDOT. Vacate that property doesn't, it doesn't go anywhere and it's not going to connect to something, but, uh, you're not asking for any other changes in roads or traffic pattern, you're, you're just building on property that's
already accessible to, and I the reason I'm asking, I just wanna. Because uh some of the public comments that I was just looking at that were attached in our, our documents that are concerned about extending the street to Fowler Avenue, but it's never going to extend.
It's you're not, you're not making any changes. Correct. That's correct. It will get into the property and won't, won't connect to Fowler. So and it and and but also just to clarify, even if FDOT had vacated that property. There
was never an intention to connect to Fowler. That's correct. Thank you. That's it. I Council member Kravitz, mostly to staff though. No, or you don't have any No, not, not
Mr. Smith, was it. You don't have any questions or you do have, OK, OK. I, um Just to refresh my memory. I know we always hear this, uh, it, it is in alignment with the comprehensive plan. I was just curious, could you refresh my memory, what part of the
comprehensive plan is this fulfilling? Uh, so when you're looking at a consistency with comprehensive plan, one, the planning commission reviews this application. They found it consistent, but as far as staff reviewing the comprehensive plan, we don't do look at
adjacent properties to see if, uh, they also have uh. Similar or compatible land uses because this is east of 75. We don't really have a comparable for that. So that is one analysis that we look at. We also look at the, um, some of the policies and goals and
objectives of the comprehensive plan and we also listed some and the, uh, planning commission and the backup material also has some additional policies. The specific ones aren't available. Uh, I did have a few. There was
one about, uh, Specifically, cause, cause project is uh. aligning with the affordable housing, there is one that I listed in the comprehensive plan, but I believe the planning commission had about. At least 10 in their staff report planning it sounds like
the planning commission was the, the lead on this then. They, they will always be the lead for the comprehensive plan amendments. OK, um, and I just have one more question if that's all right. Uh, the, uh, The traffic situation on Rollerton Road. During the course of this, which I know
extends further back to before I was elected, um, has there been any effort to do traffic calming measures along that street to benefit the existing residents who are in that area. Not that I'm aware of, um. I did, uh, in the backup material for the planning commission.
They also reached out to the community and infrastructure department and they said they don't have any plans to extend the road or do any, uh, traffic calming devices or anything like that. And this is, this is kind of an island of Temple Terrace out there as far as I'm aware, so most of all and Ranch Road is not under our. Exactly,
it's not under our jurisdiction for the road. OK. Thank you. Other questions? I, I have a couple, um, Ms. Anaya. So you said the planning commission's
planning to present on 2nd reading. Yes, they will be here. Would you ask them, they would probably do it anyway, but just in, just to resolve the questions would you ask them to make sure that they specify the parts of the comp plan that they, I think they usually,
yeah, they, they probably would have anyway. They do go over at least 1 or 2, yeah, because the question came up, if we could just make sure that they do that or ask, ask them to make sure. Thank you and I do have a second. Question for I don't know the owner's representative.
I don't know who wants to respond to this, and can we put the slide back up that showed option A and option B. There we go. I don't know who wants to answer this, but, and I know we're not at site plan yet. You want to see what it is, yeah, I
don't blame you. So I know we're not, we're nowhere near the site plan review and I know that that's further down the process, I understand that, but I, I just want to know if you have any sense for. Um, whether you've had any discussions about I'm, I'm very concerned
about the remainder of that dead end road after the entrance to this complex. Because I, there's no legitimate reason for that road to even exist. Once you build this out, once you get past the entrance to this. Nothing good can come from that the rest of
that dead end road, and I'm just wondering, um, now I know it's not your road, it's a county road, road. I'm sorry to interrupt. It is OK, so. Would you be willing to work with FDA with our support to to get. I
don't care if they abandoned the ownership of the road. I just wanted to block it off it it will the road will actually just dead right into our driveway, so it, it will already be a dead end road. Yes sir. It won't extend where it
does now that will probably require a turnaround so that if anybody goes down there and does not live in the apartment complex. They have a way of getting out, but the road will terminate. at our driveway. OK, well, the turnaround right there wouldn't be bad, but a turnaround. You know, 400 yards
down around the corner it'll be all the way at the end. The turnaround. Yeah, but that's my point. There's nothing good is going to come from that dead end being incorporated you have to be able to turn around at the end of a public right away.
So that's an F dot thing, but will the turnaround be just past your entrance or will it be way down at the dead end where the road goes now. Our entrance is at the end of the road. Mr. Mayor, if I could ask Mr. and I, could you put the slide back up with the two concepts. It's misleading the
slide, but if you look at it a little bit closer, what looks like the road is actually not the road. The road ends at the driveway at the entrance to their property. It's that that what you're seeing is pro I don't know if that's the off ramp or something else that's showing up looks like the road, but that's not the actual road.
property. It's It's OK, so what I'm looking at is the road is not the road, it's. OK. Yeah, the road goes right up to the driveway. Well, I'm sorry, I withdraw my question. No wonder
you're looking at me like I'm I really am stupid, right? OK to read those plans. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. That solves my dilemma, so and are there other questions? OK If there are no other questions,
I will close the public hearing and ask the clerk to read the title of the ordinance. An ordinance of the city of Temple Terrace, Florida amending the Imagine 2040 Temple Terrace comprehensive plan, Future land use map for 5 parcels of land located south of East Follow Avenue and east of Interstate
75, addressed as 10851 Raulerson Ranch Road and totaling 20.1 plus minus acres lying within the city of Temple Terrace, legally described in exhibit A attached hereto by changing the future lane use. ation on said property from public semi-public. To
residential 18 for CPA 24-02, providing for amendment to the official future land use map of the city, providing for severability, providing for correction of typographical errors, repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict herewith and providing for an effective date. Thank you, madam clerk,
uh, if the ordinance is acceptable, is there a motion? I got it, um, moved to approve first reading of an ordinance adopting a comprehensive plan future land use map Amendment 410851 Raulerson Ranch Road, uh,
and the scheduled 2nd hearing on March 18th. Second, Motion is 2. Discussion of the motion. Seeing none, hollows in favor, say aye aye. Opposed no nays resolution is ordinance is
adopted on first reading and will appear for second reading in public hearing on Tuesday, March 18th. Thank you very much. Sorry for the stupid question. OK, counsel, is there any carryover council business from previous meetings. OK, I have a
couple of you who have items for new business. The first one that asked me was council member chambers. Thank you, Mayor, this is a report on the uh cooperative uh. Between the tumble Terrace Arts Council in the city of Temple Terrace to
provide an art gallery in the hallway here at City Hall. You know, we, we started it last the end of last year with the volunteer paintings from members of the art council to get it set up, see how to work it, and as of Friday we have
our first. Show put in there and uh it's, it's in the hallway and her name was mentioned, uh. Tonight the artist is uh Amiena Khan, and you heard that name earlier. And uh she's the artist, so I'll have her work up this, uh,
March and April. Uh, uh, Ms. Khan is an art and educator. She graduated from the University of Florida with her PhD in engineering. After working as a consultant and research scientist in Gainesville, uh, Ms. Khan moved
to Tampa and shifted her focus to using art as a catalyst to ignite meaningful conversations. And create connections and build stronger communities. Ms. Khan is currently teaching art at the Universal Academy of Florida and has just completed
her 5th public mural in Tumble Terrace, the one mentioned on at the Lifefoot Center on Fifty-Sixth Street. So you can look uh for more information about Ms. Khan and her display through all the media channels as soon as our media department gets uh some more information.
So it's a great exhibit. It's in the hallway. Look at it on the way out. I did not know Miss Tong was an engineer by trade, PhD in engineering I did not know that. Yeah. That's quite, that's a versatile person they can PhD in engineering and both sides of
the brain are working there, yeah. Is she doing all five murals? No, no, no, that was, that was not a, that was no she's doing one of the 5, but she's done, the ones on the wall, one of the walls on 56th Street, and she's done one at Greco. middle school and she's
done the artwork on Inverness. I didn't know she was doing the Clare but she was coordinating it or no, no, she's just doing her one. Good, thank you. Council member Fernandez. Uh, so I would like to report on
the Hillsborough County Arts Council, which previously, uh, council member chambers served on and now I'm the representative for Temple Terrace and, uh, for those of you who, who don't know that is an advisory board to
Hillsborough County County commissioners, and that board is able to recommend, well, promote grants and recommend grant awards. To the county commissioners who then, uh, vote to approve them, but there are 3 grants that the arts
council can. provide and that is one is. The cultural development grant. And that was just awarded. Or recommended for award this morning. And the next grant cycle is the
community arts grant. And that cycle opens March 10th, so there are organizations or events that uh would like to see if they qualify to apply for these grants, you would want to go on the Hillsborough County website. And those
grants will actually be awarded. In June or. The board will Well, uh, score the grants and make recommendations to the board and then county commissioners will vote on it, and that will be in June. And then the 3rd
grant. Is professional development for arts grant, and that cycle application cycle will open July 7th. So I, I highly recommend that if you are an organization or you have an event that you think, uh,
might benefit from these grants and you wanna know if you could, if you qualify to go on the Hillsborough County website and look at the criteria and the application and um. That professional development for
arts grant, which the cycle opens July 7th. The recommendation for award will actually be, I think, in September. So But the deadlines and all of the criteria for application will be on
Hillsburg County's website, but I just wanna encourage people to take advantage of these grant opportunities. Thank you Council Council member Kravitz, you believe you had some things I do have two small things, um, first of all, I had a suggestion. We're gonna have this downtown workshop shortly, I think, um, what, what does
everyone think about having it actually at downtown where we can walk around and observe it. That is difficult to do, um, we can, we can do, we can talk about doing a field trip, um, but a meeting is difficult because of the record, the uh
public record in the audio visual, the ability to stream the meeting, but we, we can schedule, uh, perhaps at that meeting if the council wants to do uh a field trip we can publicly notice that we've done that before, um. We, we can do
that. I mean, yeah, OK, so I'll bring it up at that meeting. Thank you. Second one is, um, Regarding the comprehensive plan, I've looked at it, um. I think if we took it seriously. A lot of us might not like
where. It wants us to go, especially considering that, uh, today we just approved 300 something units of housing. And 7400 units of housing are supposed to be built according to comprehensive plan. We'd have to do what we did today. 25 more times. We'd have to
cover 3 quarter of an area equivalent to the golf course, 500 acres of land. I don't even know if we can do that, so I'd like to maybe look at the comprehensive plan at some point in the future, because I know that every time we have these proposals come to us. They're declared in conformity
with the comprehensive plan. And it's important, I think that we look at it again maybe and see if that's really what we want. I don't know if anyone else has any thoughts on that, but that's, that's my thinking right now. Well, what you point out that 7000 number is, is in
error. We recognize that some time ago, probably before you were here on council, but that number is an error. uh, there seems to be some mystery about how it got in the final draft of the of the comp plan, but it's not the number that we supplied to the planning
commission. Um, we recognize that it's on record we've had this conversation about that number being wrong. We can, we could no way we could achieve that number and you are correct that using that number as a guiding principle, we could never say no to anything. Um,
however, in practice, knowing that that number is inaccurate, we have said no to certain densities on development sites we've we've required them to make larger lot sizes, so in practice we've recognized that that that's, but. You're right. Reading the document in front of you, you're absolutely right.
That number would. Say that we could never turn anything down, you make the whole city apartments. Um, but that's not our intent. The reason that we haven't. Undertaken to change that with the planning commission is it's very expensive to do that for one sentence that they know it's a
mistake, we know it's a mistake. In that Plan is up for um revision soon anyway, we just talked to the when would she say? Yeah, it's like next year, so yeah, so that that those
revisions are coming, um, that number in particular is a is just plain wrong, but there's other things as you correctly point out in the comp plan that. are probably need to be revisited too, so you're right. But that's coming, um, like in a year, and it doesn't seem
like it's worth. That you know, that's that's a big undertaking. It doesn't seem like it would be, but it is. It's exciting. OK, wonderful. So I have a question is is is that the right is that the right word? Yeah. When we do and cuz it's
been a while since I've reviewed the, I mean, updated and gone through that process, um, do we do a workshop to go through the comprehensive plan, or is it just something that we do at a council meeting. I mean, obviously we get the backup documents. I don't remember. I
think I was here the last time, but Miss and I, I don't know what the I don't remember it's been so long, I don't know they had a workshop for. But, uh, the planning commission does date that next year they will be updating our comprehensive
plan and uh if there's anything that the council finds that we can definitely have them address that, um, but, uh, I, I'm not sure I can ask the planning commission about a workshop if we want to proceed that. I'm thinking more like for us to be uh you know how we,
we will identify items that we would like the planning commission to address do we need to have a workshop. I think Mr. B, you might have some insights. So, um, As Mrs Maya mentioned earlier that there's going to be a representative of the planning commission here at the next meeting. I think it's, we can
make, make sure that they come prepared to address that. may talk about how the community, how we did it last time and suggest maybe some alternatives for you to consider. I know as part of the Comprehensive plan, there is, there's a sort of a city council portion of it, but then there's also a community portion of it, um, and I'm sure
they can walk us through that process and if you have suggestions for things you, you'd want them to consider they can probably take that back and, and kind of mold the plan going to sort of our our desires here amendments have come up that one specific
policy is already on their, uh, things to address and over the last couple of years, they already have a, a, a little bit of a list. to address as well as we go through a comprehensive plans and do the analysis, they are aware that some things need to be updated
as well as any data cause uh the population changes, things like that, or graphs, bar graphs thing. So, Mr. B, can I make a suggestion on that instead of doing that at the next meeting when that person's here because that may not be the same person that we want to talk to about the comp plan
amendment so or. The overall And I'm not gonna be here, so a little self-serving, but I, I, um. What I wonder is if would it be OK with everybody if we instead of doing that if we just invited them to come and make a presentation at the
presentation portion of the meeting. About how that process. Works because I know they do a great deal of community outreach too. And what our role, you know, when this timetable will start, what's the process? Um That and just maybe do a
fifteen-minute presentation instead of us just while they're here, we ask them. Would that be acceptable to? Yes. Mr. B, is that alright with you? Yes sir, we'll see if we can get it scheduled for April. OK, or you know, whenever we have a light agenda month or whatever I mean we have some time so. Yep, we can
do that. OK, that sound right? I will, uh, talk to the staff. Soccer. Mr. Kravitz, did you, are you finished? Did you have the floor unless you're done. Thank you very much for the for the comment on the
comprehensive plan. Mr. my concern was, you know, we don't want them to say, oh, we've got to have a plan in here by next month, so we need just so we know what the timetable is so that we have time to react, put our thoughts together, have a have our internal workshop, which I think we need to have
more of so that you know, the council can can discuss these things because there's history and so forth that can't that doesn't necessarily get shared in this type of an environment in the workshop, I think would be very helpful for it. So yeah, you answered the question. Well, we have time on our hands,
which is good because we're rolling, we got legislative session to deal with right now and then we're rolling in the budget. And then we've got all the centennial celebrations, so. I just want to make sure we have enough time to to do it, react to do it so we have time on our hands because this doesn't start till next year,
so let's, but this is on our radar and Good, good topic for Good. Mr. Sisler OK, um, uh, we had a workshop prior to this meeting with the Golf and Country Club, um, to discuss
current financial issues and, and come up with payment dates and so forth, um, one of the comments or one of the uh uh the, the outshot of this is that we're going to work through, and correct me if I'm wrong, through the existing
documents and make sure that All the changes that have been made through the years are properly codified and um uh functional and it can be attained. One of the ones that I wanted to discuss and bring it and it was recommended to bring to council was the
current. Status, if you will, of the sack, the strategic advisory Committee of which I'm the, the council's liaison to with two, Citizens who volunteer to be on that committee, um, just with issues that have come up over the last
couple of years with um people talking to people and it became uh something of of an irrelevant uh committee. So what I wanted to recommend, sorry to interrupt, but maybe it might benefit everybody if you explain a little bit about what the sack is and what the
genesis of that was. I don't think everybody knows that. OK, the sack goes back to the integrity time frame we're talking 2. 2015, 2016, and that that area, uh, maybe even a little bit later and um with the, with the indebtedness by
the club to the city, um. One of the provisions was that the sack committee would be um created and they would meet on a quarterly basis and it had um like I say, one member council, two citizen volunteers
appointed and then the president and the general manager for the club, and on a quarterly basis to review what's going on and if there are any issues that were going back and forth between the club and the city, um, COVID. Everything else just created
its own set of problems and some uh uh concessions were made to the club in order to get everybody through those time frames, um, and As time went on, the, the, the club fell further and further behind. They've made great strides to get caught up, but that's,
that's the genesis of the sack and uh. It just became, it's just I I think it's outlived its usefulness in this particular case, but what I'd like to do is to replace it and just for consideration by counsel, um, with a, an
appointed position that would allow that person, not, not a council member, to sit on their finance committee so that we would have a, uh, it would probably be, it's a non-voting position on on them, on there it's appointed, but we would have a seat at the table, um,
we would. Uh, Perhaps get our financials in a more timely basis. they've done great things with their, with their financials are cleaned up. They look pretty good. Um, but it would, it would allow us as a city as the as the the the the
the landlord and the uh uh uh. Mortgage holder. the insight as to what's going on, if there's any issues and so forth, just something for the, for council to think about if they do that, they have to make a significant bylaw change which has to happen in the month of April
during their annual meeting. Otherwise we'd have to wait another year before we could could make that happen. So I, I would just like to recommend that we This, this band, the sack and and and A point
Through our normal citizen appointing process appoint somebody to sit on their finance committee, assuming that their board will accept that, um, in, in lieu of that, so that uh we have a a presence within the operations or within
the the finance committee. I think I've said that I'm not sure if I missed anything. I know, uh, we're in discussion but there's no motion. Can we keep discussing? We can. OK, and I can beneficial in this circumstance I can support wholly the uh. The idea of uh
disbanding the SA committee. It is now passed its usefulness as you said they were very good at the time. But on their seat on the committee and I'm all for that but I think it should be someone from our finance department. That works for the city that knows finance and
knows what they should be paying and how it's paid and all that instead of uh instead of uh a citizen appointee. Do we have any issues with that, Mr. Shaw? As a city employee. No, I don't, I don't see any
issue with that and and. Also to address a concern that was raised earlier, um, there's no requirement that this person ask any questions at all, so, but if they do, I, I don't see
that that gives us any type of liability because we're we're still operating under numerous agreements with them. So that's always what is going to control here. I don't disagree with that with you and, and with
that that we asked the board to include that in their bylaw and that it be a non-voting. I mean, I don't know how they run their meetings if it's if they vote, but it would be uh. Just to
observe, you know. So That's my thoughts on it's got numerous idle evenings he could do that. I guess I wanna kind of hear what this. Mr Bay uh thinks about that idea of city staff before we go jumping into
something. Mayor members of council. So the, uh, I, I don't. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with city staff. I think if any, definitely don't make me the person. I don't, I don't want to be appointed because you'd be not well served by that. I think it needs to be somebody
with that financial acumen to ask those pressing questions, so I think they wouldn't have to have the ability. I, I hear possibly making them observe only, but they'd have to have the ability to ask questions. Um, because I think that would be sort of the purpose to the, to the position so that they can report back if they had doubts about certain things and just ask for some clarifying on,
you know, uh, interpretation, um, but yeah, if that's the direction of council, we can, we can make that work as long as we understand the role and we have some flexibility. OK, back to, but so what I meant was I don't know how the finance committee of the club works if they vote on things,
so I would think if there's a voting thing they don't, but they can certainly interact and ask questions and answer questions. So if this would be similar to like an ex officio member on on boards typically that'd be somebody who they couldn't vote, but yes, they could have a discussion. So the
question is, would, would that somebody like that be beneficial? Well, Other council members. Well, I, I have concerns about it, um. And I understand that we do have. Uh
We, we have secured debt in the country club owes the city um in repayment of that debt, so I, I do understand that we have. Some sort of oversight, but I guess I look at this as I'm just concerned about. To me it
seems like overreach and so if we have a a. An appointed City representative on their finance committee and we, and they're paying us and, and everything is going fine, um, but we see
that they're making some management missteps, you know, where, where do we? And then they, they're gonna come back to the city and say, well, you know, they, they've made some bad financial choices, and maybe those financial choices won't even have an impact on
what the club pays the city, but they're gonna come back and report, well, these aren't very good management financial decisions and then we as a council then do we have some sort of obligation to To weigh in. I mean it for yes, we are
the landlord, but they are a private entity and I, I, I look at it as the same way as maybe a. an apartment complex that has received. Uh, some sort of loan guarantee. Um, and the
state doesn't come in and and sit on their management. Boards and tell them that. They're not managing correctly. So I, I just have concerns. Along those lines, I, I would, my
preference would be that we require. A Country club report every month. With the opportunity. Or maybe not, maybe we don't need it every month, but every quarter where the country club representative
comes here, stands in front of us and then we can ask the questions that need to be asked, but I just have a concern about. Putting any kind of city representative on the board of uh essentially a private entity. We have that now. That's part of the latest agreement is
they're supposed to appear quarterly, and they don't, how do you enforce that? Well, let's, yeah, that's a really hold on to that if we want to have that discussion that's kind of. Mr. So, um, back in
October of 2017, there was a forbearance agreement that was presented to counsel basically from the club to forestall. Counsel from taking action against them. And Out of that came the golf course
reorganization plan at the same time. One of the items on that was that the city shall be made aware of and invited to any and all director and or committee meetings, so. We essentially
could be attending any of their director meetings and any of their committee meetings already. And as I had said earlier, A lot of what you're talking about is already here. We just haven't been exercising it, so I don't think in, in the
sack. was essentially having 3 people doing what we're asking one person to do now. So I think that sac when it start, when it was first came about was supposed to be going to all
of their uh directors meetings. But you know, as you said, the pan the pandemic came not too long after that, and, and things made it more difficult and it didn't happen, but. You're just asking one person
now to do with 3 people could have and we're doing, so. Well, if, if I may. Well, I, I'm gonna get to Mr. Kravitz too, so go ahead. You go ahead to your to your, to that point, uh,
logistically it's easier to get one person to a meeting is to get 5 because you also had the general manager of the president of the club. So you were trying to coordinate between 5 people and and uh uh it became. difficult to to to
to make that happen, where people's schedules, working schedules, but, um, uh, the other The issue is that their board meeting is going on right now. OK, so I could never attend any of it. It was the first Tuesday of every month is a board meeting, and I, you're
right, we could go to the finance committee meetings could never find out when they were. That's, that's improved through the years, but in the beginning it was very difficult to do that because you never knew when it was or what it was going on, so. Heilman Kravitz, any thoughts? You go ahead. OK,
I'm gonna. still support um expanding the SAC committee. You know, maybe we need to take both of these uh two separate, but anyway, back to the other one, since it looks like we have the ability to put somebody in these different meetings by agreement in 2017,
do we need to do anything other than remind the club that uh that's kind of where my thoughts are. Yeah. Not to cut you off. No, but to remind the club that that's in there. I don't know why they need a bylaw change, they redo it, so why don't we instead of taking, I mean, we, if we want to just spend the sack, we can do that
any any Tuesday night that we meet. I mean, we don't have to do that right now. I don't know if that's a bad idea, but I'm just saying we don't have to rush into that. We can do that at any time. Mr. B, uh Uh, what would be your thoughts if I didn't know that it was in there. I probably knew at some
point, but I didn't remember what. Couldn't we accomplish the same thing simply by calling Mr. Schafer tomorrow and saying, hey, look, we found this, scan it. Email it to him so he can see it because he probably hasn't seen it since then either, if ever. And so instead of this whole bylaw
change and. Uh Appointing somebody, we just want to exercise this that's already in our agreement. And come To Your, uh, finance committee meetings. Maybe every time, maybe not every time, you know, but we
wanna send somebody. Not to boat or but to but to just be there and observe and maybe ask a few questions if they come up. I think it's a great idea that maybe it'd be somebody from finance. Um And they may not even need to go every time depending on, you know, they go
to 3 of them in a row and there's nothing to talk about. They, they, you know, they just pop in quarterly or whatever at some point, but I don't know that we even need them to do a bylaw change and us to do a. I think it sounds like it's already in place. Given what
what Mr. Schone said, I I've read every one of his documents numerous times through the years and I, I did not realize, I did not remember that clause. So that, that brings us back to the whole idea of cleaning this mess up, yeah, I mean, we're
certainly willing to go through everything and try to come up with a, um, more searchable way to find these things because it, it's all, as far as I know, most of it's on paper in these notebooks. So if we can even.
scan some of these and maybe and we'll condense some of the key elements, but if we can scan some of these, put them into some form, uh, on the computer that you could, if you just want to look at maintenance, all you'd have to do is click on maintenance and
there would be the maintenance stuff with the main things I can pull out and put at the top for the tunnels and the trees. I mean, here, I, I recognize these tabs I put in, probably 5 years ago. could say trees, tunnels, because I've looked them up so many times and it
was trying to make it easier for people to, to find those two. I, I personally, I don't wanna do that. I mean, you have two huge binders in front of you. They probably don't even have that. Oh, I'm sure they don't. I mean that's only half of it because I've got, and
that's the thing. I don't wanna a search engine. I wanna clean it up. I want, I want something that is in this. I don't know how you can I mean,,, 11 loan agreement is as big as that, so I, I can only pull out the key
elements so agreements can be an appendices, so just to talk to the agreement, I know that the city attorney has some well founded reservations about trying to synthesize this down, but as a matter of just pure practice, what we have today is
completely unworkable. It gives staff absolutely zero guidance as to what's going on. The clause that she read, I've referenced before and I was told, no, that's not the case, and so like nobody knows what's happening. Nobody knows what is accurate anymore. I wouldn't, I could reach out to Mr. Schafer
tomorrow and say that I don't know if he's gonna come back with, hey, here's something from 2019. that says something different, so, but I think it's a fair enough observation. I, I'm sure he would appreciate it more than having to change his bylaws, um. So I'm happy to do that. I also do think that we
need to move towards synthesizing this and having that simple something simpler than what we have at least clearer to give us direction as of today what we understand to be today. Um, if that's what council supports, I'm happy to do that. I got 2 comments. Just
uh the first one, if we send someone there, I think we need to have a very clear idea of what it is that person is supposed to accomplish, even if it's just to remind them to pay us on time. Um, so I, I, I know there's a lot of discussion. I'm not exactly sure what that person is gonna do other than look, uh, and the other comment
is. My personal preference is to innovate all the pre-existing agreements, just have a clause in the new agreement that says all previous agreements are null and void. We work from a fresh slate, and we, the only thing we really need is the number. What do they owe us, and then we develop from there what we want to have happen in the
future, and I'm pretty sure it can be pretty slim, um. Just my opinion. I mean, I've, I've worked on $80 million shipbuilding agreements. This is a $2 million loan. Those were, you know, 40 pages, so I'm, I'm pretty sure that whatever we have in terms of binders, we can at least reduce
that by 80% if we go about it strategically so that my, my preference is start from a fresh slate, think about what we need, put that in there, send it to the club, see what they want. OK, so what have we
decided? We've decided that we're gonna call Mr. Schafer and ask him if we can just send somebody. Without the necessity to change bylaws and change stuff here and we just wanna exercise our right to attend their finance committee meetings. They may still have
to change their bylaws on that. You'd know better than I would. That's that's all up to them, I don't know the bylaws, but, uh, that's up to them. You know, we start out with this is what was agreed to in 2017 and see where it goes from there, if they agreed to in 2017 and they
never changed their bylaws and shame on them. Yeah, they can still do that, yeah. So Um Yeah, and see what they say. Could be We're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Could be. Great. OK, I'll shut
up. And um second, we will. Sorry, didn't know I did that. Any discussion. And we will continue our discussions internally about what the best
approach is to consolidating this, uh, gotta remember it a few years, all the tribal knowledge of this goes away. Yeah, I just that's the scary part. I think there's got to be some, and I, I understand it's gonna be a heavy lift, but I think in the long run it will save us time and. Grief, um.
And I, but we do have to be realistic about how to accomplish this. I don't know, and that's where we need to talk to our staff about. How do we take that and turn it into. And there are some things in there that need to be preserved. We can't just completely. You know, so there's some old stuff
in there that that's important too, so keep the good, get rid of the bad, yeah, exactly, so, OK. I mean, we have a huge loan agreement that's completely and utterly separate from the lease agreement, so yeah, which we
don't. We don't want to touch. The loan agreement you can go back to the bank and everything else. OK. Is there anything else on this? Are you satisfied? You brought it up. You're good. everybody good with this? We're all OK. City manager's report. Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh,
I'd like to ask up, um, utilities director Tin to give the council an update on the, uh, Fowler Avenue, uh, repair to the sanitary sewer if council recall several months ago, uh, we had an emergency, um, provision that was activated because of that
sanitary sewer that coincided with the hurricane. Um, we have now some new developments regarding that project that Mr. Tin will fill you in on. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Good evening, Honorable Mayor of City council. Be a little bit since I've been up here, but I
wanted to give you a brief update on the Fowler Avenue Gravity Main emergency replacement project, uh. Just a little bit of background to date we've completed all the design, utility coordination, which was a pretty substantial effort, um, in addition to
permitting, uh, we also have excavated on site. We've conducted the pilot bore, which is the initial bore that has to be established to make sure you have the correct line for the final bore, which would be a 48 inch steel casing, so they do this initial board to make sure
you have a nice level, uh, Inaccurate depiction of what that final boar is going to be. So that has been completed. Materials has been delivered to the site, the 48 inch casing that I mentioned earlier is on site as well as all the uh PVC pipe that will be utilized for
the new gravity maintenance being put under Fowler revenue, um, next steps include dewatering. Uh, they'll continue to dewater the site. They are having to dig down approximately 15 ft depending on some of these, uh, manholes and so they to go down, dewater
the groundwater, pull that out, and then they excavate, they'll continue to, um, Expand upon what they call the push pit. So the push pit is located on the north side of Fowler, they'll push to the south to the receiving pit, which will be on the south side of Fowler Avenue,
so both those sites have been dewatered. They're finalizing the excavation on the north push pit, the South receiving pit has already been, uh, dug down and, and created and dewatered. In addition, they dewatering for the manhole to be put in place. Um, that will be located on the south side of
the road. Um, in addition to, once they get that, the steel casing put in, they will finish that up with the pushing in of the new gravity main, uh, the joints will be restrained because even though this is gravity at some future point, you'll have to pull that pipe
out, it will degrade over time and so you want that pipe to be one continuous piece, so they'll actually what they call restrain the joints. So at some point in the future, we can pull that pipe out to replace it. Uh, the good news is you'll have that steel casing in place, so. Should be a pretty easy
lift at that point. Um The substantial completion date for this project is April 15th. So we got about 2 months out from that point. Um, cost estimate, I wanted to speak a little bit about that. So the initial cost estimate that I gave you back
in November was $1.1 million. The actual cost estimate that we received for this effort is 1.6. So this is a little bit of a different animal in that typically when you're doing an emergency replacement project. You don't find out the cost for
the effort until everything is completed. The site's buttoned up. It's been restored. Uh, we were able to actually secure a cost estimate from the contractor. It's a lump sum cost estimate. So the, uh, the amount that is anticipated is
1.6. Again, trying to keep in mind that back in November, this project was in its infancy, and there were a lot of unknowns still that were out there. So as they started digging in and really getting a good idea of what this is gonna cost, getting hard numbers from the contractors, from the drill
contractor. This is the number that they came up with. Um In addition, we are potentially looking at utilizing FEMA dollars for this effort since it did manifest itself during Hurricane Belton. So that's a possibility we could use that
for reimbursement. Uh, for these funds. Timeline moving forward just a little bit about the timeline. I know there's again been a lot of discussion about where this project is and why was it not complete to date? So when you think about our traditional CIP projects, which
this would be a pretty substantial CIP effort. You have 6 to 8 months of design work that goes in design and permitting prehand, then you have your whole procurement process, then you fall into your construction phase that procurement process in the
construction phase can run anywhere from 10 to 12, even 14 months. So when you think about us squeezing that all the way down into a 6 month window where we've now done all the design, all the permitting, or initiating construction,
construction will be completed. It is a pretty quick effort compared to what it would normally take. I know 6 months doesn't sound like an emergency replacement, but these projects oftentimes run into snags that are unforeseen and so things
have slowed a bit but we're in the process of sticking or staying on top of the contractor to make sure that they get this project, uh, pushed forward as quickly as possible. That's it I'll stand for any questions. Council members' questions, Council memberchsler, I have 3 quick ones, but the pullout, how long,
how long would that last? I mean, The pipe itself? Yeah. Yeah, 50 years. OK, so we're not, nothing, nothing in our lifetime. OK. Well, maybe we're lucky. Um, do we have any recourse, this might be from Miss Shaw. Do we have any recourse to the installer or the light pole that created
this whole problem. Maybe under a liability insurance from way back when. That was an original theory, but that turned out not to be true. The light pole. Oh that wasn't the cause of it? OK, all right. What did cause it then. So So, so this is what
the end of what Mr. Chinch was talking about the possibility of reimbursement. This has come up recently because in in talking with the finance department and looking at this and looking at this some precedent perhaps in another, in other cases. The, the light pole collapsed. And it collapsed obviously during the hurricane. I mean, in the heart
of the hurricane, the light pole came down. We all assumed the light pole came down because of the hurricane winds or other conditions. And a sanitary sewer obviously collapsed as well, so, uh, we were operating under the impression that perhaps it was the sanitary sewers, the collapse that led to the light
pole coming down, but the argument could be made in our finance department is exploring that whether the two conditions that. basically at the same time just happened. It happenstance it just happened to happen at the same time. It could be attributed possibly to the storm precipitating that. So that's, that's a line of thought we're we're we're
approaching if FEMA accepts that line of thought, possibly we'll be reimbursed. If they don't, then we, then we won't, which is, we've been operating on the premise that we're going to absorb these costs from our water and sewer fund all along. So this is an avenue that again we're looking at, but it, it, it may not pan out, but we at
least want you to understand the reason why we're looking at it. Last question, what is dewatering in Florida. So the groundwater table in Florida is, is very close to the surface in some cases is at the surface sucking up the whole. Right, so what they end up doing is they put what they call well points
down in a like a a ring or around the entire site that you want to dewater and they literally hook up suction pumps to those, uh, pull a vacuum and it pulls, literally pulls the groundwater out of that area that you want to excavate so that the groundwater around it
may be. 2 ft below the surface with the groundwater in the area that you've now put your well points into down to say 1520 ft, has no water in it. And they have to do that, and it doesn't, it, it does take time to dewater a site, that's another. Issue that has to be
addressed is that it, it doesn't happen overnight. You guys create new words every time, OK. Other questions council members one small one don't remember Kravitz, the original 1.1 million number that did not come from a contractor, right? It was a loose estimate from the
contractor, yes, yes, but again, remembering that it was very early on in the project. Do we need action? No. So I, I have a couple of questions. Um, Mr. T, actually I have. Several that I won't bore everybody with the
details of how exactly this is gonna work. I'll get with you offline on that, but. Um It seems to me, and we've discussed this since it happened that the more we learn about this. That perhaps um I and I from groundwater
intrusion into that pipe upstream of the section that failed. It's fair to say that that may have contributed to this, is it not? If we had significant INI upstream in the pipe. that that pipe could have filled up more than it's
intended to fill up and help cause some of the crumbling of that, is that, that's always a possibility, but what we think may have happened here is there's a lot of sewer gas in that line and you build up sewer gas and and gravity mains because it's at a flow rate, it's not at a push that you get
in a force me. So over time, the past 50 years, the sewer gas, it's a um. Acidic, very sci acidic in nature. Uh, it actually eats away at that steel casing and that's steel pipe, and that's what was the
other kind of flaws that was ductal iron that was put in there. And so after 30, 40, 50 years of just that constant erosion, the pipe just basically became Swiss cheese and collapsed. OK. So that's related to my next question,
and which is. Should we um. Or have we inspected that pipe upstream of the section that failed to determine if we're just sitting on a time bomb with the, with the upstream. Part of that failing also that that will be once we get this
new line in place, we will then be able to inspect that remainder of the section that runs parallel to Fowler Avenue because We anticipate that there may be significant issues with that line as well. Now we've been in contact with the lining contractor. He's looked at some of what we've been able
to see so far, as far as the actual condition of the pipe, and he believes it can be lined, which would be a significant cost savings to the city and not require and then require little to know construction activity other than. Bypass pumping and then putting in that new liner. And that's
related to my next question is. What other pipes up there cross under fire I mean. It's unlikely that that pipe was put in there and it's the only pipe that was put in there 50 years ago. It's probably other. pipes. Is it Am I making a leap that
that whole system needs to be camera to see if. Because it's easier to line them before they fail than it is to, I mean, once it fails. This This pipe could have been reigned, could have been relined for a fraction of what the $1.6
million had we known about it, so again, we'll be looking at condition index for the remainder of the pipes that feed into that collection area. Uh, we do have a number of forcespains that feed into that area, so they are obviously under pressure and when you have issues with those, it's a little more abundantly clear
that you're having a problem versus gravity lines, which Allow for that kind of buildup of gas over time and long term kind of erosion that you wouldn't necessarily see in a uh a force main. So that is something that will be assessed as well, yes. OK. Thank you
very much, Mr. Tin. OK. That's all you have? City attorney. You have nothing. Oh my goodness guys, what are we gonna do? We're out of stuff. Everybody good? Anything else to come before the council, council members, anything else?
If not, we will be adjourned.