Come to Thursday, June 26, meeting of committee of the full board of the Texas State Board of Education. We're gonna pick up our Thursday afternoon agenda here. We're gonna go out of order. We're gonna start with item number three, which is the social studies ad hoc committee update. Before we start, I believe we have public testimony for this item. So I'd ask staff to brief the rules and, call up the testifiers, please. Public testimony is limited to two minutes per speaker. The timer will be in front of you, and we'll count down the time. And you can begin your testimony when the yellow light blinks.
You'll have thirty seconds, when it is solid yellow, and we need you to end your testimony when it's red. If you have any copies of your testimony, please provide that to the staff when you're about to speak. Supporters of testifiers may not gather behind the podium, and testifiers are free to use a portion of their testimony time to acknowledge supporters seated in the audience. Just as a reminder, the board's operating rules state that no posters, props, flags, noisemakers, or other visual displays are allowed, but you are welcome to do jazz hands to support your testifier. I'm gonna go ahead and call Carrie.
If we can just stand at ease for one second, please. And please continue. Carrie Smith, Megan Doherty, Julia Brookins, and Suprenthe Kundera. Mister chairman, this is testimony on which item? Item number three. Social studies. Is it item two? There's a typo on the registration sheet. Carrie Smith? Carrie Smith? Megan Doherty? Begin? Good afternoon, members of the board. My name is Megan Doherty, and I'm here on behalf of the Texas Council for the Social Studies, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization representing around 1,000 educators across Texas.
We appreciate the opportunity to support your work as you begin revising the social studies TEKS. We believe all Texas students deserve a high quality social studies education, one that prepares them to understand history, geography, economics, and civics, and to engage meaningfully in their communities and our democracy. We offer the following recommendations for the new TEEX framework. Promote depth over breadth. The current standards, especially in US and world history, cover too much content and too little time. We recommend adjusting time periods and redistributing content across grade levels to promote deeper learning. Strengthen vertical alignment and skill progression. We support placing the skills TEKS above knowledge statements to emphasize how skills build over
time similar to what you did with the revised science TEKS. Aligning aligning content to broader social studies themes, such as the recurring themes in social in the science TEKS, would improve coherence across grade levels. The 10 social studies themes on the back of your handout provide one example. Rethink Texas history. In seventh grade, Texas history course often repeats content from fourth grade without much added rigor or depth. We recommend embedding Texas content within US history for better context, such as states like North Carolina have done. Another option could be introducing civics in seventh grade.
Protect access to world history and world geography. With HB 27 in effect, students may graduate with only sixth grade world cultures as their global history. We urge the board to consider moving the world cultures courses into elementary, expanding world history and world geography starting in middle school, and then improve and protect elementary social studies. It's foundational for civic learning and literacy. We recommend a stronger content rich progression starting earlier. Regardless of any TEKS changes, elementary schools must be required to provide dedicated time for social studies. We also recommend additional training for elementary teachers. And as discussed yesterday,
there may be a link between early instruction and eighth grade star performance. Thank you. And I'd be happy to address that further. Thank you. Julia Brookins. Good afternoon. My name is Julia Brookins. I'm senior program analyst for teaching and learning at the American Historical Association, speaking on behalf of the organization today. The conducted a two year research project on teaching US history in middle and high school. This is a a reprise of a presentation I gave in November of last year as well for the new members and for review. Our findings are available in a 200 page report called American Lesson Plan. What did we learn?
Number one, secondary US history teachers are professionals who are concerned mostly with helping their students learn central elements of our nation's history. Teachers want students to read and understand founding documents to prepare them for informed civic engagement. They also want students to grapple with the complex histories, and legacies of racism and slavery. These goals are entirely compatible. Our researchers did not find deliberate classroom malpractice. Number two, teachers make important curricular decisions with direct influence over what students are expected to learn. Despite efforts to standardize instruction,
history teachers retain substantial discretion over their daily work. Number three, free online resources outweigh traditional textbooks, which are unlikely to stand at the center of history instruction. US History Teachers rely on a short list of trusted sites led by federal institutions, including the Library of Congress, the National Archives, and Smithsonian museums. Since November, it is important to note that teachers' confidence in these sites might be affected by recent federal actions to alter them, and, that might have a negative impact on student learning.
Number four, room for improvement remains. A lack of resources, instructional time, and professional respect are among the clearest threats to the integrity of history education across The United States. Many of the teachers in our sample wish for more time and opportunity for professional learning focused on historical content. What happened, how, and why? If there is an inaccurate message being sent by our public schools to millions of students Thank you. It is that history is not important. Thank you. Some from Thana Caldera. Okay, Okay, members, do we have any questions for this panel with testifiers?
Vice Chair Lo? My question is for Megan Daughtry. I wanted to ask you about your comment about moving world cultures to, elementary school and, maybe doing more with world history and world geography at middle school. Do you think we could keep the world cultures at the sixth grade and just beef it up to the standpoint that it covered more, world history and world geography? I I I think that world cultures is a great course for, like, introducing students to the concepts of maps, geography,
cultures across the world. It's a really fun content. Teachers and students love engaging with that content. That's why I think it would really fit well in elementary where we have no world anything, up until they hit sixth grade. And I think we need to be introducing them to this sooner because it builds that context knowledge and that background knowledge for students to better understand their place in the world and and how all this history fits in. I think by the time they get to sixth and seventh grade, though, I think they are ready to start tackling world history. And I did some review of other state standards, and I'm seeing, like, over and over again, a lot of states are introducing world history in middle school.
So I think kids are cognitively able to to grapple with, like, a more rigorous curriculum at that point. So if you did that, what would you give up at at, elementary school to put the world cultures there? I mean, I could see integrating it into third grade. Okay. Yeah. Third or fourth grade would be an appropriate level. I I kind of agree with you on that third grade and maybe focus focus on the ancient civilizations and, you know, take them around the world with regarding those ancient civilizations. And then they might be ready at the sixth grade for more geography, world geography then.
I you know, I'd love to see more spatial recognition, like, understanding spatial awareness, understanding, in in elementary school. Right? I mean, kids do need to understand, like, where am I physically in the world? How does, like, the climate and the geography change, and how does that affect our cultures and our development? So I do think, like, that would be appropriate. When I talk to elementary school teachers, I think that they'd like to still see a lot of just integration of different concepts, so the students are kinda getting more, like, a good introduction to things. I could see if, you know, ancient world history, Roman empire, Greek empire, things like that in,
like, middle school probably. Well, I was thinking connect those ancient civilizations to what happened back then, and we still affects us today kind of thing. So but one other question I had for you. You were talking about integrating maybe seventh and eighth grade Texas history and US history. What does that look like to you? Because I get a little lost there because Texas history goes all the way to 02/2025, and we stop, eighth grade history at 1877. Yeah. That's a really good question. So I've been grappling with this a lot too and talking to people about this
because I know that Texas history is a great study. I love Texas history. I love learning about Texas history. The way we're currently doing it is not working. Students are not engaging the way we'd like to see them engage. So I think probably, you know, keep some kind of Texas history in those elementary grades so that the kids are getting that base, and we could do all the way to modern day. And in, seventh grade, maybe look at you know, we could, continue to keep, the split in the world in the US History course and just keep US History and Texas history integrated early on, and then continue Texas history into high school,
embed it into high school as well with US History. The benefit, I think, also with embedding Texas history into US history is when we do the STAR test, now we can test not just on US history knowledge, but also Texas history knowledge. So it would actually reinforce the importance of Texas history, for students. So do you think a TIC for that might look like, if you're studying about the, Texas constitution or the American constitution, then you integrate that with the Texas constitution? Well, I think you do it chronologically. Right. I understand that. But, you know, how our strands are, the way the strands are would be government. And in government,
it would be the American constitution compared to the Texas constitution. So is that kinda what you're thinking? Oh, you could absolutely still do that, within the chronological context of, like, first, you do a unit on US constitution, do all The US stuff. And then when we get to Texas history, then students have a better understanding of, like, okay. I already have all this background knowledge on US constitution. How did that influence the the framers of the Texas constitution? Yeah. Well, I totally appreciate the work your organization has done, and and I certainly hope that this board will continue to work with you to develop this framework. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Doctor. Balmedera? I'd like to hear how you would integrate the Native American population history and just the background into your study of democracy. I mean, it's my understanding that our two houses are kind of comparable to the the Native American two houses of men and women. But but we have our our our two houses of of government. So is there is there some place to to look at kind of the the
prehistorical era? Well, I I do I I can't speak to that particular example. I don't know enough about that history. I do realize we do a really good job in Texas history of talking about Texas tribes, native tribes, but we don't even approach anything in eighth grade US history about the indigenous populations that existed here before European settlers arrived. Mhmm. And I think that's a a pretty big gap. It it makes it seem like the European settlers arrived and there was, like, nobody else on the land. There's very little reference in early colonial to any other, interactions with Native Americans. And I think that the Native American interaction is really important.
For instance, understanding the French and Indian war. Like, they played a role in that. But for all that students would know based on our current Sikhs, that doesn't I mean, they're not here. They don't exist. Doctor. Els? Again, thanks for being here today. You were around last time when we did this a few years back and you saw kind of the different roads we went by and the chronological approach that we we started to look at, specifically three through eight, a chronological walkthrough history. I think one of the things this Board need where we're at now is to figure out what is our framework going to be, especially K through eight. Any thoughts on that? You talked a little bit to answer Ms.
Little's question about maybe six, seven and eight. But what's your thoughts? Know, there's essentially the status quo. There's the chronological aspect we looked last time, and I'm sure there's different iterations. Is there a right or wrong way to do it? Do we just have to pick something and go with it? Or is there any things that we should make sure we avoid as far as considering what's taught in each grade? And one more question on top of that that you can answer altogether is, and again, you touched on this a little bit, but can those younger grades understand world concept or is it recommended they start at a local level and work bigger?
For example, state, US, world, or can you do that backwards? So it's a good question. I'm not an expert in early elementary. I've to a lot of teachers that are in early elementary. And from what I hear is kind of having the an integrated approach with lots of different, you know, focus, not like a very specific history approach is is better for early on elementary. That's my understanding. But when they get to slightly older elementary, I think we could start to introduce more, you know, history. The problem that we're seeing right now with the structure between Texas history and US
history is a lot of teachers are going back and having to teach text or US history when they're teaching Texas history because students don't have a good context to understand the events of Texas history. Like, we have a tick on, the effects of or the impacts of World War one on Texas. Well, if you don't even understand what World War one is about, why we're fighting, like, what's what's happening contextually at the time, it's kinda hard for kids to understand, like, why that would impact Texas and the ways that would impact Texas. So a lot of teachers are going back and and already filling in some of those gaps. So it would make more sense that once you start getting into more that chronological
history that maybe we do a little bit more with US history. And I think that we also need some world history in elementary because it's also hard to understand all of US history without understanding that global context. But I think that, overall, having kids being exposed to concepts around civics and, geography and economics early on in in ways that are accessible to them as, you know, young children is is a totally appropriate and and absolutely necessary. So, yeah, I hope that answers your question. It did. Thank you. Okay. Member Hickman? Yes. Thank you,
chair. Thank you for coming. You have an and following up on member Little's questions, you have a number of suggestions. Do you have a straw man of what you think the framework would look like with all those changes implemented? I have, one that I created for myself. It doesn't represent the the organization. I'm happy to give it to you. Okay. I do have a copy here, so I can I can pass it to you? But it's not something that I'm wedded to. I I don't know that there's any one right answer. I've looked at so many different standards across different states too and see how different places tackle it. So I think that just overall kinda keeping in mind,
we need more world history, world geography at younger ages. It's about to get crowded out with HP. Was it '27? Because HB 27 is now removing like, a a student take economics in place of world history or world geography. And if a student is studying in a district that only requires three social studies credits to graduate, that means that they could go through the entire k through 12 curriculum only ever having world cultures and no other world history or world geography. Mhmm. So that to me is very problematic. But I don't, yeah, I don't have like, I'm not wedded to anything in particular. And are your comments
related to how we're currently doing it or the framework we put on the shelf a couple years ago? A little of both. I have both of those ideas in mind. Okay. Yeah. And then on the back, on your themes, say I'm doing US history, do you do, like, revolutionary war and you look at all 10 themes for a period of time, or how does that work? So okay. Thank you for asking that question because I love talking about themes. So I I'm looking at how science did it. I don't know too much about how science did it. I've been talking to some colleagues a little bit, and they seem to be very pleased with the way that those,
the themes have been incorporated, themes and concepts, the recurring themes and concepts in in science. I think we could do something similar with social studies because a lot of us in the field already try to align our content with themes so that students can see how, different societies at different times and different places all kind of connect with these these core these core topics, like power, authority, and governance or science, technology, and society. It wouldn't be that every single standard is aligned to every single theme. I did see New York State does this. They use these almost exactly these themes with some modification.
And it looks like they're you know, at with each standard, they kind of say, okay. This standard aligns to individual groups and institutions and power authority and governance. So they actually kinda cross the line of themes. But I think it would help teachers, and students to identify that progression in in concepts over time. So that it's not just like I'm learning George Washington and abstraction as, like, a single concept, but I'm learning about how George Washington has influenced our country as a leader through his example and through his governance and how he evolved the the role of the
president, you know, in this new country, etcetera, etcetera. So it's it's more about how can we connect actually, thank yeah. And just as an aside, I think that's a big thing when we get to actual TEEX revisions. It's like the laundry list have got to go because they make no sense. You have to really figure out how do these things fit together. So that's where I see the benefit of a theme is then you can actually connect why are we learning George Washington. What's his significance? How did he impact history instead of just, you know, George Washington? Right. Understood. Thank you. Yeah. And, chair, are these equivalent to the strands in your committee board?
I believe that's the intent. Okay. Is that correct? Sorry? You're using themes to be essentially a strand, same thing. Well, I don't know if they would I don't know if they would supplant strands per se. And I I think that what science did seems to have work seems to be working from what I'm hearing. Again, not super knowledgeable about it, but I think that we could consider that as the strand. I think part of the challenges that we have with current strands is that we have, like, these huge history strands and then these tiny tiny,
like, culture strand or this tiny tiny economic strand within this course, it doesn't really meaningfully help teachers think about how to structure their their, their teaching, their instruction. Also, we end up getting these repetitive redundant TEEKS where you might have, like, a really big TEEKS under the history strand, but then a more discreet teak that's connected under, you know, like, a technology strand or something like that. And it's very it's confusing because then you have to do a lot of bundling and reorganizing to make sense of it. I hope that makes sense. And then if you were drafting TEEX,
would you have George Washington and then under George Washington a number of themes to talk about? Or would you have the power authority and then put George Washington with Abraham Lincoln and other power authority. How how would you frame that? Yeah. It's a really good question. I know it would make more sense to group the TEEKS more thematically because right now, there's some TEEKS like there's one in, seventh grade on the revolution and well, and it's almost all the ones in seventh grade I can't point to. Or in statehood where it's just like this list.
I mean, it's maybe 15 different things that are somewhat related, but also just kind of distinct events or people. And it's pretty, you know, it's pretty hard to use that to drive instruction. You have to break it apart. You really have to spend time sussing out. Like, okay. What are all the individual things that kids need to know from this one standard? So I think we could benefit from more focused approach to we're studying these people because of this reason. Mhmm. This is what their significance is or this is this event contributed to blank.
You know, like, giving a little bit more of a frame to understanding why we're studying. Because otherwise, it's like, we have keys that just say identify Sam Houston. Okay. Well, there's a lot to identify about Sam Houston. He had a very rich client. Five almost done. What's that? He's on 45 almost when you get done. That's Yeah. So yeah. It's just we need a little bit more structure, a little bit more focus for for why we're studying some of these individuals or events. Okay. Thank you. Vice Turlitt. Megan, do you think we have, the way those strands are currently, we have too many, strands? I mean, the way the tiques are now that we have too many strands.
Is there some way we could I think is there seven or eight strands? Is there some way that we could combine that? And if so, would that be easier for the teachers and the students, or would that make it more difficult? It seems to me like we have too many, but I'd be interested in your opinion. It is a lot. And, again, it it does contribute to that redundancy or that overlap that we're seeing across teaks. I know, typically, what what we do in instruction, I can speak to instruction, we organize things by political, economic, geographic, and social for the most part.
The, issue that I see with some of the strand too is just sometimes how the things are aligned. Like, most of our standards re relating to women and women in history are actually in the culture strand. And last I checked out, my culture is American. And I'm you know, like, we contributed equally to American industry. So it's weird. Sometimes there's some strange alignments that are happening with those strands. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions, members? K. We have one other testifier who was signed up and wasn't here when we called the roll. I intend to take that testimony unless there's any objection.
K. Without objection. Carrie Carrie Smith. Chairman Kinsey, members of the board, you each have a red folder that's going around to you with my full TICS recommendations and an exhaustive works cited document. The proposal includes but not limited to teaching Middle Eastern history, comparative governance, and modern human rights challenges. My name is Carrie Smith. Today is my birthday, and I'm not here on my birthday because I love government buildings. I'm here because I love this country, and I believe our children deserve truth. I have Jewish ancestry, and I've spent thirteen years in public policy,
including five years as a chief of staff in the Texas senate. This is my first time testifying because the urgency to revise the social studies tics demands it. Global antisemitism is up 340 since 2022, the highest since the holocaust. One third of gen z defended Hamas after October 7. Only 18% of young adults say they're proud to be American according to 2023 Pew Research studies. Where are they learning this? Social media and on Texas college campuses or groups tied to the Muslim Brotherhood spread
messages like, gas the Jews, we owe Germany an apology from the river to the sea. Meanwhile, under Islamist regimes today, Christians, Jews, reformers, women, and dissenters are persecuted and killed. This isn't about Muslims. Most are peaceful. This is about Islamism, the belief that Islam should govern law, politics, and society. Pew estimates 400,000,000 Muslims worldwide, the population of The US and Canada combined, hold this view. In a 1991 memo uncovered by the FBI, the Muslim Brotherhood wrote their mission was a kind of grand jihad to eliminate and
destroy Western civilization from within. Doctor Mark Oppenheimer of Washington University warned some students turn to TikTok or Instagram for understanding of a complex geopolitical situation. That doesn't make them bad. It means we failed them. We can fix that starting here. I will drive to each of your districts to meet. I'll move my schedule. I'll move mountains because this matters that much. The cost of silence is a generation unprepared to defend the freedom to be handed. I'm sorry. Let's not be the ones who let that happen. Thank you. Members, any questions?
Member Pickering? Thank you, mister chairman. Miss Smith, are you with an organization or are you here on your own? I'm here on my own. Okay. And are you a teacher? No, ma'am. But all my siblings are. Oh, okay. Four four that are teachers. Okay. And then, your research is incredible. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Good job. And, thank you for testifying today. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yes, ma'am. I look forward to this. Hopefully, meeting with you. Chairman, I have a question before the court passes. Thank you, chairman. Ma'am, I'm over here. Do you could you say if you had any specific and I I apologize.
I have not had time to go over your your red, red folder here. But did you have any specific examples or suggestions for the board as it relates to how you think, we should structure social studies? Yes. So I did break this up into five parts, and I'm I'm not an expert in the education field. I have been in public policy for a while, but at my best. I did separate this by world geography and world history. You know, I did notice that we do not really do a good job at showing contrast between Western governance and theocratic regimes.
There's a lot of kids and adults, that don't understand what life is like underneath Islamism, what Islamism is, what a caliphate is, what a global caliphate is. So there are certain definitions I think that our students need to understand such as, religious supremacy, demi, martyrdom, infidel. That's all very important because they are hearing this stuff on college campuses and they don't understand what they're actually supporting. You know, this isn't a political thing. I think it's just giving them the ability to understand what it is they're, you know, protesting or,
you know, just giving them that the facts, the facts instead of propaganda, spreading. I also included Islamic expansionism. We don't talk about that and how that led to the first crusades, in Middle Eastern history, how long that lasted and how that impacted society and Western world and, The Middle East as a whole and how that, ties into today with, modern extremism, with terrorism. They pull those thoughts from, Islamic expansionism back, in the medieval period and prior to that. So, you'll see a lot of their texts like Jihadism that actually comes from,
you know, Mohammed on for a thousand years that they wanna go back to the original Muslim caliphate. And we do not cover that today in, Texas classrooms. The last one is also, you know, why is border security important? You know, there was thousands of terrorists that entered our borders and, you know, just letting them understand why that's important, why assimilation is important, and having a legal process in place. Well, as as someone who represents, district on The US Mexico border, I do appreciate, your sentiments there.
That's that is is missing. That's for sure. We've had a crash course on The US Mexico border in my district, for quite some time. Thankfully, that has been much improved, up late. Other than the Islamic influences that you're talking about, is there any other group or global group that you think that our our kids need to understand, need to know about? Because I know you you sort of zoned in on on one group. Is there anything else?
Yes. I do include the CCP and other, you know, authoritarian regimes. I really am focusing on Islamism because of their goal of expansionism and nonassimilation. So, yes, I, did include, like, what is life like under the CCP and what is religious, oppression look like there and why they do it, because it's not just Christians that they oppress, they oppress Muslims as well. Just to understand what life is like under the CCP and how they are, you know, conducting propaganda warfare. You know, we're in a modern society and,
you know, unfortunate social media and the Internet has done great things for the world, but it's also some, you know, created a system that we now have to fight. And if we don't teach our kids first, then they're going to, cling on to what these other governments are pushing out. And that's where, you know, I would love to share the study, with these statistics that I got. It was really astounding to me and shocking. You know, they're really pushing this, agenda to dissolve America from within. And so the 18%, you know, not being proud to be American or being ashamed of our country,
That's something we should really, like, you know, be fearful of across the board because history teaches us when that happens, you know, civil war and revolution happens in about fifty years after that. So we should definitely teach this. That that that is true. I I wasn't able to if I wasn't able to find where you're talking about CCP. Which which page I did. I view that. You know? In the first page. Okay. Yes. So on page one, under cultural systems and civilizations, it is the second bullet point. Oh, okay.
Okay. Got it. And just lastly, just to your point about, you know, being proud to be, you know, an American, I say every time, you know, I sing the national anthem or I recite our pledge Mhmm. You know, it's just an emotional moment, and I cannot fathom how people could sing our national anthem, recite our pledge, and not be patriotic. So maybe we need to do better in k through 12 schools to ensure that our our students are exposed to this and Right. You know, they have the tools to be you know how to be patriotic because the only
kids are who aren't as patriotic, in their country are mostly Americans. Everybody else loves their own country. Right. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Doctor. Romadara. How would you deal with, case genocide and those those kind of large concepts? Because we, you know, we certainly have it. World War two, we had it when settlers first came to this nation. Right. It was a pretty massive genocide of of, Native Americans. So Mhmm. Where would that fit into your your timeline? Where would we introduce that? So, like I said, I'm not really an expert of to where to place it.
I I do understand policy. But I would think for a discussion like that, high school. And definitely, genocide is also ties into assimilation and border security, right? Like, I think that's also something where the natives, you know, we check for communicable diseases. You know, genocide also was a part of that. They brought the measles and smallpox and how that ties into modern day as well. But also understanding what the definition of genocide means. I think that's been taken out of context. Genocide means you have intent to take out a certain group of people. And, I think that does tie into modern day.
And, it's really been taken out of context I think even with modern day journalism of what that definition is. So, just really understanding what that definition is and not just applying it to the definition is. So, just really understanding what that definition is and not just applying it to the Holocaust or to what's going on in The Middle East today, but also, you know, you there's so many times in history where you can really apply that, whether that's China under Genghis Khan, whether that's, you know, like you said, like in the during the Native American period. Member Hall, thank, thank you for being here with us today. I really appreciate it. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. And I think these are, some really great points that you're I really didn't have a question for you,
but I just wanted to say thank you for being here on your birthday and raising some really important issues that I think we should take a serious look at. Well, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it. To the chair. Member Revels. Hi. Thank you for being here. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. I and and I share your concern about the rise in anti Semitism in in, this country. I think that's alarming and and, you know, we need to deal with that. But I'm also concerned with some of the approaches, you suggest here and I I fully, admire your intent to not make this anti Muslim or anti Islam.
But I feel the long term given the tone that that we see here is that it will create that atmosphere. Mhmm. So I'm just really concerned about that as well. And and also on the border part of it, as someone who actually lives on the border Mhmm. From El Paso, I think that we also need to be cautious about that as well because of the negative connotations that that create for communities like the one I I represent and live in. And making sure that we don't promote that notion of an unsafe border when, you know, there's millions of us living along the border and see it as a safe space
to live, thrive, and learn. Absolutely. And I think, you know, this is a starting point and I, agree with you, you know, for the term like Islamophobia, right? Phobia, the definition of that is an irrational fear. And I don't think we should have an irrational fear. I think Islamism is a rational fear based off of statistics. And how we define that and and use our language with that is very important. As far as the border part of it, I think that, people, you know, if I'm gonna take this in a political sense, you know, people on the right, people on the left, people in the center don't really understand, like, what what is the legal process?
What does that even mean? You know, even I had to ask myself that ten years ago. And I said, do I even understand what the legal process is? People will say you're illegal, and they don't know what it means. Why do we have it? And just really understanding what that process is. Like, what does it take to become a citizen? Like, is there things that we could do better? You know? So that way, our students can critically think about it, whenever they do go to vote or when they understand the border. And I think that would help with, you know, risk connotations or these, you know, just, conspiracy theories on the border or anything else that,
is there because they're listening to TikTok or journalists. I can appreciate an approach like that. Yes. Thank you. Any further questions? Thank you. Alright. Thank you so much. Okay. Waiting for the slideshow to get put up, and then we'll move on. Okay. Okay, members. Slideshow is getting passed out along with the minutes from the social study ad hoc committee. So I'll wait till everybody has a copy of it, and then I'll begin. Does everybody have a copy? Okay. Well, this is the report out from the, social studies ad hoc committee that was constituted
by me via the rules that govern the State Board of Education. So today we're gonna talk about the committee overview, what we were trying to do. We'll review the charges real quick, talk about the committee meetings we had, the research that we talked to TEA staff about, key components of a framework just so we can start to get our minds around the problem. And then we'll come to our recommendation as a committee and discussion. As I mentioned earlier, you have the minutes there from all of the meetings that we had. These, items are also posted online or will be posted online shortly in accordance with the
operating rules. Slide, please. Okay. So on the left of this slide, you see the the memorandum. That's the one that I issued in October, regarding what the ad hoc committee would do. I'll just review this real quick. It's small font and I'll just state it for the record. So evaluate Texas current social studies learning standards, research best practices in history and civics of education, and provide recommendations for developing exemplary state standards, ensuring Texas students receive a high quality social studies education that prepares them for informed citizenship. So the committee itself was me,
Member Perez Diaz, Member Pickering, and Member Young. If you look on the next slide, it'll be a recap of when we met. In accordance with the operating rules, we held a public hearing on October 10. That was the last time we were here in Austin together to hear recommendations from the public. On June 18, we met to discuss the current framework and the components that make that up, get our minds around where we are now. We met on the June 23 to discuss the research that we had asked the
agency to go pull together for both the committee and for this body, and talked about framework options. We met yesterday afternoon to review the minutes from everything and to approve this report that we are issuing today. And then finally, we're at today where we're gonna update you on what we're done. The next slide, you'll see a visual depiction really of that original memo. I'm going to try not to read at you. I think you can all read this for yourself. And obviously, you're going to have this to take home.
So this is we're really going to focus today on where the star is. That's the framework recommendations. That's the piece that I really want to get the discussion going today. So if you look on the next slide here, you can see the framework recommendation. So what are we looking for? Essential knowledge, recommend grade appropriate sequencing of content from elementary through high school, historical thinking, civic skills, civic dispositions and values, vertical alignment and coherence, clarity and specificity. Following slide, you can see our guiding principles. We're looking for content,
rigor, skills development and accessibility. And finally, in the last slide is the outcomes we're looking for. Again, best practices, engaged citizenship, academic rigor. One thing that I would like to note before I call, on TEA staff who I'd like to say have been fantastic in supporting us in this endeavor, Carrie Christman has served as the lead staff. We've had a lot of help from Shannon Trejo and her team as well from the agency as we've gone through this. One thing that's become very abundantly clear to me in this is
the timeline and the compressed nature of which we find ourselves. So to review how we got here, three years ago, when the State Board of Education took up social studies September of that year, so that would have been 2021. The motion was that the State Board of Education was going to study the framework using an outline, that as the starting point and come back in 2025. The charges that I issued said we were going to do this by June,
and we were gonna report out June, and that's what we're doing today. However, what's happened since then is a couple of things, really one major change since then. So legislation from this most recent legislative session passed said that the State Board of Education needs to review and revise the social studies standards no later than the July. Yes, that's thirteen months from now. So we have a lot of work to do to get that done and meet that, meet that timeline. So I would kind of label that as a deadline that we need to keep
in mind. There's also an opportunity if you remember from the eighty seventh Ledge Special Session two, the passage of SB3 created the civics academy. So we heard this morning about equipping teachers to teach some of these things, these concepts that we're looking for our students to master. While the civics academies are in process of being set up and they're supposed to launch next summer as well. So we definitely have an opportunity here to get ourselves organized and get and make sure that we're aligned between what we are doing and the development of those civics
academies. Any questions on anything I've talked about so far before I invite, Shannon Trejo to come up? Yes, chairman. Member Francis. Thank you, chairman. Chairman, you mentioned civics academy. As you know, I've always asked this question for many, many probably years now. As we three authorize the State Board of Education to approve the civics academies, do you have a sense of the procedure from the commissioner and his team on what's that gonna look like as he develops that and brings it to us for, our approval? Yeah. So there's been a,
there's been a RFP out for the development of that. Then again, this is an agency process for that. And this body does, as the State Board of Education, need to approve what they do. I expect to hear from the agency regarding that, updates on that this fall. So are you saying next meeting? I'm saying this fall. September. That is not what I said. I said this fall. November. Okay, Sherman. I was just joking. But okay. I I look forward to to, working with with the board and, the agency on this. Thank you. This fall.
Yes. You will. Any other questions? Shannon? Good afternoon, board members, chair Kinsey. Thank you for the opportunity to bring information, shared with the ad hoc committee at their request. And the first slide, our first topic is related to, the charge from the chair to look at a variety of research related to best practices. So this slide, I don't have the clicker on me. Carrie. Thanks. Can we go back one, please? This first slide highlights, a recent article from FIN 2023 correlating potentially weak state standards and inadequate instructional materials,
insufficient teacher preparation, and limited time to drops and declines in NAEP scores. I think we are aware that if we don't have great standards, great instruction materials, and great teacher training, it's gonna be difficult to get the outcomes that we're seeking. So with that in mind and the charge for this committee to, establish a framework, we took a look at some best practices that are out in play today. And I think you will find that many of these practices resonate with actually the testimony that was provided this morning, which was interesting to hear.
So let's take a look at practice number one that focuses on k-two history. Practice one actually highlights research that supports the idea that the teaching of history to young learners is a learning process that's best supported by introducing historical figures through storytelling, biographies, and sequencing of events. It's noted that positive outcomes occurred when students could sequence past events using a timeline and were able to explore places and artifacts of the past. This provides new insights into previously held thoughts that an introduction of history in the
early grades was a developmental process as opposed to a learning process. So we one of the practices that we're bringing forward to you today in consideration for your framework is the idea that we can embed historical people, events, places, and ideas into the k two space based on this research. Practice two aligns with research on spiraling curriculum theory and cumulative learning theory. It allows, students to have opportunities to learn social studies in what we're calling a layered format,
and it actually speaks again to some of the testimony today. To build a foundation of knowledge of over time, you would connect knowledge, and allow the brain to seek patterns in that learning. So for example, the idea of thinking about in third grade, we would talk about, the Roman Republic as a governmental structure that is supported, supporting decision making and the voice of the people in that process, this broader context can actually lend itself well to the study of the purpose of The US constitution and the limitation of government power and protection of civil rights.
And then that learning can further lend itself to thinking critically about the end of the Civil War and explaining new freedoms and rights for more Americans and Texans, including Reconstruction amendments. So you can see this nesting. It helps to know about Greek and Roman structures to better understand The US constitution, to then better understand what happened in Texas. So this is a layered approach in the research, that helps both within a grade level and across grade levels build that knowledge and help students retain that knowledge better over time.
This the advantage was greater long term memory. Practice three is exactly what was talked about today, the need to present historical concepts in chronological order to truly support a student's ability to understand those concepts and ascertain relationships between people, events, places, and ideas over time. In this instance, sequence does matter. I think one of the testifiers actually mentioned it's hard to talk about Texas history outside of understanding US history. So these are three of the research practices,
that we presented to the ad hoc committee for consideration in thinking about the framework. The next slide, next two slides actually highlights, as many of the testifiers actually stated. It was I felt like we were on the same page. We looked also at several states and how they approach social studies instruction, particularly in light of these three practices, remembering K2 history, layering of history, and then chronology, and looked for, are are there any states out there that are actually doing this well? What we found was it's just inconsistent.
There's no really perfect model out there. There's no really one way to do things. Some do some things well, others do other things well, particularly for Louisiana, who adopted their standards in March of twenty twenty two. For practice one, they focus on ordering events and understanding tools that represent time. Grades one and two blend personal timelines in comparison and past press and present to identify historical continuity, but not a lot of history teaching, necessarily embedded. Looking at Tennessee,
new standards adopted in February of twenty twenty four. Their early grades emphasize time order vocabulary and developing a sense of sequencing, but the majority of the content is focused on present experiences of children, so we're missing that practice as well. For the upper grade levels in both of these instances, you can see from the slide, maybe not. Carrie, can we back up one, two, Louisiana, Texas. Sometimes the state history is presented first, and then it goes into The US history and world history. Again,
it's a backwards approach where students may not have context, to build the the knowledge about their state because they don't know about The US history or even the world concepts to help them better understand what they're learning about their state. So it was just inconsistent, with the application of those practices. The next slide highlights Florida and Alabama, which were two additional states that we looked at and found very similar inconsistencies. Sometimes it was done white, in terms of alignment with those three practices, and sometimes it felt out of order or perhaps areas for improvement.
We're struggling with the projection. Thank you. So, onto the next slide, the additional charge of the committee was to take a look at our current, standards and apply those three practices. K two Layering of knowledge, and then chronology. And we found that the current course sequence as stated today doesn't necessarily support those best practices. Just need to go up one to the next slide. Thank you. So as you may be aware, in kinder first and second, we have a focus on self home and family, school and community,
community, state, and nation. Third grade tends to move into people who made an impact, and these practices and current standards don't necessarily align with k two as a historical opportunity for students to learn. Fourth grade is Texas history, fifth grade US, and then this repetition that people are talking about. Sixth graders world cultures, seventh and eighth, the repetition up until the civil war. Again, the layering of topics does not appear to be strong nor does the the opportunity for to learn history in chronological order.
So we were testing our own standards against these three practices. Okay. I'm gonna pause there around the research in The States just to see if there are any questions or comments about those topics. Or does anybody have any questions? Miss Channels? I just wanted to know how you guys, decided to compare, Florida and Alabama and Tennessee in particular. Why did you guys choose those states? We looked at, different states that had similar types of standards and content, and we're just trying to apply the practices. We looked at a wide breadth. These were the ones that we selected just to put up front.
We looked at Massachusetts. We looked at California. We looked at several. And to the testifiers today, it's just inconsistent, across many states as to how they approach social studies instruction. So did you guys look at how, I guess, the students in all states were performing and if they were performing well on their state test? Sure. Great question. We actually, determined that many states assess social studies in different ways. So not every state associate, assesses social studies annually. Some do, and their assessments are aligned to portions of the content that's put forward.
Some don't assess at all. Some assess in key grade levels, and they only assess, for example, seventh grade civics. Like, that's the only topic that they assess. So it was very difficult to ascertain the correlation between the standards themselves and the student outcomes. Stacy's in. Shannon, I totally agree with some of this research. You know, we need to beef up the content in K through two, and that was certainly something that we tried to do last time. I also believe in that nesting or the sequencing. And one of the things that I keep hearing all the time that just really
is to be in my bonnet, I guess, is, well, my student was never taught that. Well, your student was taught it, but they didn't learn it. And I think as we go through our future teach, that's what we need to keep in mind. How are the students going to learn it? And I think coming back and revisiting content, making connections from one piece of content just like you made that connection with the Roman Empire and the The US constitution. So I totally support that and hope that that's that's the way that we can craft these ticks as we move forward.
Any other questions? Thank you. So the second kind of chunk of information that we discussed at the ad hoc committee, was related to if you are considering a a a social studies framework that will guide exactly what member Little was just talking about. What are the components of a framework that you need to think about? And so we presented some considerations for the ad hoc committee related to components of a highly effective framework for social studies. These three components included strands,
core sequence, and key topics and primary sources. These three things could be aligned to those research findings and could help drive, the the selection of the content and the the how that content might be implemented in the classroom. So on the next slide, we thought it best to think about for your consideration, what do we mean when we say strands? Let's talk about those a little bit. Currently, we have eight strands that organize content across courses. So essentially, the eight strands that are listed on the slide today organize content.
So there's a history strand and all of the grade levels, K through eight. There's a geography strand. And then there's content underneath each of those strands. That's how it's currently organized. The recommendation to the ad hoc committee was to consider aligning those strands with current statutes because we know there's been some statutory requirements that have come forward and aligning with the research. So thinking about the layering, thinking about the chronology, thinking about the the way the historical topics that would make sense in the early years. So the the strands are something that you would need to delineate or consider delineating
in order to really guide great instructional standards for teachers. The second concept is course sequence. This has a lot to do with practices one, two, and three in the research. The current framework organizes content by grade level topic. We mentioned that before. For example, fourth grade is Texas history. That's what we study. Fifth grade is US history. The recommendation was to consider that current research, when establishing a course sequence, and we're actually bringing some sample course sequences for you to take a look at
today, that we also presented to, the ad hoc committee. The last component is, key topics and primary sources. As stated earlier by a testifier, I feel like we we met and had an opportunity to bleed into each other's minds is you've got this big strand that says geography. Okay. What does that mean? What are the key topics, that need to be taught under a particular strand, and how do we make that coherent? How do we layer that information in a way that it connects member little from one grade level to the next or even within the same grade level?
So establishing and identifying key topics would be important. The current framework utilizes strand titles as kind of major topics and then provides generalized critique language under there, which provides a lot of breadth in terms of a teacher needing to make lots of decisions around the instructional objectives. Our recommendation, for the committee was to consider providing clarity on the key topics and aligning those two, statute as well. I will stop there to see if there are any comments or questions about the
framework. Member Roach. Thank you, mister chairman. So could you just go back a little bit? And you said how many strands? There's eight strands, and they're listed on that slide. So we need all eight strands, I guess, is my question too. The I think that's what we are bringing to you for consideration is to say, do you need eight strands? Or is there opportunity to, combine, realign those strands in a way that makes better sense? And we did present options, member Brooks, to the ad hoc committee that we will share with you today. And I believe,
that you'll be able to see some ideas. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Any other questions? Member for Chairman, does this essentially extend the committee's work because of, recent legislation? Because now you have to consider additional I don't understand the question. Can you state it again? For example, the recent legislation was passed that it, gives specific instruction to social studies, TEKS. Now I I don't know if the the committee your committee was able to consider those. So would this extend your ad hoc committee's work?
I think some of that depends on decisions this board makes In September, we did include, several of the pieces of legislation that passed in the most recent session in our recommendations later. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, as member Brooks says, you, so definitely, segued. We are now gonna go into what were the strands consideration options that were presented to the ad hoc committee, and that was part of the discussion, for the committee. Option one that was considered by the committee were,
just leave the current eight strands that we have. That's obviously an option that could be considered. If we keep going to the next slide, those are the eight strands, that are if we maintain status quo, that you might consider. The second the next slide presented another option, to consider combining some strand titles, that would, help to align with statute. I would like to point out that the top blue boxes along these columns would represent the strand titles with some combinations.
Right? So, previously, it just stated history. I think we have heard that perhaps including the idea of Texas, United States, and world as part of that strand title might be something to consider. The idea of including civics, government and civics, because we know that there's some statutory requirements around civics instruction, economics, geography, culture and religion, and then technology and innovation. This would, I wanna point out, take out, social studies skills. So let me explain a little bit further.
So top box would be, some considerations for strand titles. What's what's in the light blue underneath is kind of an explanation of what could be included under those titles. So in world Texas United States and World History, it's people, events, places, and ideas. Under government and civics, there's a statutory requirement to understand, the ability to appreciate civics in The US form of government. Under economics, another statutory requirement to emphasize the free enterprise system and its benefits.
Geography would help with places, features, and skills. Culture and religion could focus on art, architecture, writing, and religion. And then, of course, key innovation and technology, under technology and innovation. One of the recommendations out of the ad hoc committee was to look at some of the statutory requirements, such as informed American patriotism, which we have talked about today, harmful effects of communist ideology, which has also been, discussed somewhat today, and then the use of specific primary sources and the integration of those as opportunity
across multiple strands depending on where, they fit most appropriately. Again, this is just an option that was presented to the committee for consideration. The third option the third option was essentially, let's start from scratch, and and work through what strands might be best, to identify based on, the purview of the board. So I will pause there, to answer questions. Vice Chair Little. Shannon, you mentioned that this second option didn't have any skills in it. Where would the steal skills be?
I apologize. I meant to, come back to that. It it was the recommendation from us to consider skills be embedded in the actual teaching of the content. So, for example, one of the specialty skills is to, utilize timelines. So timelines actually could be considered as part of the history instruction. We're gonna sequence events on a timeline. The use of a map, perhaps could be included in geography content. So there's it's just the idea of could these skills that are often associated with social studies be aligned and embedded inside of other TEKS that allow that application of
that skill, to to take life in the classroom. Okay. So how would the teacher know what skills? Would that maybe be in a TEKS resource guide or something like that? Because we do need to, you know, identify these skills that we want our students to learn. And I think that would be a good thing to communicate to the teachers. Otherwise, they're going to not they're going to say we left them in the dark. So I do think that we need to have some type of skills, work. Embedded in it is fine, but we need to identify the different skills that we expect the students to learn.
Understood. And, Deborah Brooks? Thank you. And and along those lines, I I think it should be stated because there is a way to study history. There's you have primary sources, and I mean, that is important especially with technology, Internet. How do you research properly? So I I do think that's an important strand. Also, I'm having difficulty understanding something. So culture and religion, I think with with religion, that can be embedded as needed as well. So when I look at culture and religion and and these seven strand or these
strands in option two, the the wording is you use all of these throughout the tics. That's how you use the strands, like, at the beginning. Right? So you would expect students to learn about religion throughout everything they're studying in history. I just think that's kinda religious. I think that's kinda heavy with that kind of focus. I think, to name a strand after that, just I don't agree with that. But and then Texas United States Emerald history, should that be or since you're expecting that to be in every I guess,
what would the wording be? Like, because this wouldn't apply to everything history. Right? I'm thinking k through second, third, fourth. Like, when you're talking about teaching Texas history, that's not going to include so much world history? Do you like, are you sticking to this strand? Like, you have to have this in every tick? What does that look like? So I think the reason we had presented it as Texas, United States, and World is we had gotten feedback around the idea that they're the layering out of the research and the idea of kind of nesting. What do you know about the world that helps you better understand The United States,
that helps you better understand Texas? And the idea that maybe there is a connective tissue between all three studies. So the focus may be on what's happening in Texas and the Texas history piece of it, but to what opportunity have you had to learn about the influence of The United States history that helped get Texas where it is today versus the world history that influenced United States that influenced Texas. So I think that's where the intent came from, is to think about could the TEKS be organized in a way to provide the
layering? Again, these are only, discussion and considerations for this board. And can you tell me more about the culture and religion, why that has to be emphasized in every TIC as well? Or what's the logic in in the so how would that look? So, it's similar to, one of the testifiers today, the crusades, for example. Do we know the background behind the the, religious tenants that were involved in the crusades? A lot of cultural studies have to do with traditions,
family belief systems, impacting history, religion along the way. So that's why it was placed with culture and religion so that it could be considered as a as a strand as a whole. So so to incorporate that, couldn't we just say culture? Because you're right. You you you mentioned family. You there's a lot of other things that centers around culture. But when you I think when the focus is on religion, that's a heavier focus on religion when it's a stand alone like that. Does that make sense? So culture I mean, culture could be food. Culture could be Right.
Clothing. So I think to just give one aspect of culture, I I think would do a disservice to all that's the the other topics that are underneath culture. That's fine. Member Maynor, do we have a a really good comprehensive sort of, I know that there's been some recent legislation, but just in other words, where this rulemaking and statute cross each other where we have a good checklist. In other words, we had a statutory checklist. We make sure that we've checked all the boxes.
Do we have that? Not yet, but we will. Okay. Thank you. Member Pickering. Mr. Chairman, I'm kind of thinking along the same lines as Member Maynard. Is there kind of like a cross reference? And, I know our suitability rubric was built on a lot of state laws. Could we use that as a cross reference? Well, the suitability rubric was built on a lot of state laws, but it wasn't necessarily built on everything that needs to be included in the TEKS. So I think it may have some overlap. I don't know. I have to go back and review that. But I think the remainder is making a good point.
It's something we need, which is to make sure that we're checking all the boxes off because there's a lot of various laws that have been passed that say incorporate this into the health takes. And we learned about one yesterday from the most recent session regarding diet and nutrition. So we need to, get that built. We don't have it right now, and it's probably it was probably wise of us to wait until after this week's deadline, from the past session. So I'm sure the agency will be providing us with that in the coming weeks. Doctor. Ellis. There's a lot there,
so let me go back to something that I had a question about. You mentioned skills. So, is that proposed not to be a strand now? Did I understand that correct? I think the proposal was not to list it as an isolated strand, but rather take the skills and and put them inside of other strands where it made sense to have an application of that skill in learning of content. That was the suggestion yesterday. It's part of I have to see what that looks like. And I don't pretend to be an educator. I've talked to educators, who talk about, we talk about the vertical alignment with this and what you're coming up to in
a couple of slides, but they've expressed that that skills strand is a good place to work on that vertical alignment, the connection between. So I think we should think about that as we move through. Yes, sir. The one thing that I would say about this is, at least Vice Chair Little brought up, I think it was you earlier, that there's too many strands. We went from eight to six, and now it sounds like some people think we need to go back up to seven. I mean, if there's too many, if that is the truth, like, we gotta figure out what to condense or consolidate. So this was our best stab at that.
Obviously, the board will wrestle with that question going forward. Just, we also need to figure out, do we have too many or not? No, I understand. Member Brooks. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so what about something like skills and technology? And we just overlap that kind of like how you overlap Texas, United States, and world history. That could also be overlapped too? Yes. So let let me kind of answer your question where we're going. We're not gonna make decisions today. And this committee did not make any decisions. This committee, is only making a recommendation to this board. So
we need a starting point for a conversation or several conversations that we're going to have. Today is the first board conversation in that. And my intent is we'll come back in September and then we start making decisions. So we'll start with something and then we can amend it from there. Does that make sense? So I think you're thinking about the right way of like, hey, could we tweak it like this or that? It's just today isn't the day to do that. But there that day is coming soon, and we should be thinking about that. Doctor. Balmara. I would just like to recommend that the committee look at,
that first segment there, the Texas, United States, and World History. The Native Americans were the ones that gave us the idea for democracy, and they they had the House of Women and House of Men. But but this I understand why you're putting Texas first because that's where we live. But I I just would like to see them maybe try to take a little bit more of a global perspective on that, on those origins, that origin. I think, Doctor. Balmero, just to be clear, we'll come back with something to start from as a proposal in September.
And then the board can make amendments, and we can do our normal, motions and timing and all the things that we do. Yes. I'm just making a comment here. Vice Chair Lowe. Would it be possible, I mean, I know we're not making a decision, but something to think about, if we move the technology and innovation into the history because it talks about inventions, technology, and their impact. And then under history, we talk about events. And to me, a key invention and that kind of thing might be an event. So if we feel like we've got too many strands,
I might suggest that that might be a way that we might could, combine them. Madam Mayor? Yeah. I would I would concur with that. You know, the reason that part of the reason that the Normans overran King Harold in the Battle of Hastings is they had the longbow. That was an innovation at the time. It kind of mattered. But that's part of the history. You know. And I think that you could probably incorporate that. Doctor. Ellis? And I'm going to ask this question just to the universe so that as we're getting feedback out there, I know people are listening to this because I think this is a valid question
that you brought up. Do we have too many strands? And what does that do in the practicality of how we're educating our students versus the number of TEKS? Is there a problem the number of strands or is there a problem the number of TEKS? So, as we get feedback from the universe, I think that's a question I'd like to hear from the field is, is it a too many strands problem or too many TEKS problems? Yeah, to the feedback topic real quick. I'll go down that trail with you. We will be doing the survey, that we do on TEEX revisions probably in the next few weeks. So we'll be working on that once we finish this week.
Chairman. Thanks, Chairman. So when you and the committee met to discuss these new, these new trends, did you see an area where you would have to propose significantly more Tieks, or does our existing Tieks fit well under, these new strands? I guess, if you could want me down the discussion there. We didn't specifically address that topic. My intuition is that, since this was a combination of the existing ones in some way and kinda some
matrix things happening here with the the long blue horizontal line. It would be the same number of ticks from a starting point, but we didn't really get into that discussion. Okay. Thank you. So lots of great discussion around strands. So those were the three opportunities that were discussed, at the ad hoc committee. I'll move now into the opportunities that were the options that were discussed related to course sequence. I it resonated with me, the testimony this morning. I feel like, some of the course sequences options that were discussed with the ad hoc committee represents
some of the thinking as well as the research that we, talked about earlier. Pardon my reach. So the first option, obviously, was to, keep everything like it is. That is an option, valid option. Although we do recognize that our current, course sequence does not necessarily align to the research practices that were presented earlier today. Alright. A second option was presented. Let me get to my notes here, and discussed to consider a course sequence using the starting point sequence directed by the SVOE in the September 2022 meeting.
Using this starting point, we considered additional enhancements, and suggested those to align with the research, with increasing the teaching of history in grades k through two, offering some layering opportunities of topics, and then defining chronological, order in the within the two grade bands with three through five and six through eight. I'd like to turn your attention to the legend at the bottom left of this slide, because the colors do represent, this idea of Texas, US, and world, that in third grade,
for example, you can see some green, some blue, and some tan. The tan would represent world history, or world focus, world history focus. The blue would represent United States history focus. The green would represent Texas history focus. So in this example, k through two, would focus on potentially stories of America in Texas, foundational people, events, places, and ideas. Third through fifth, The arrow underneath third through fifth addresses chronology. So the idea that you would begin with the ancient,
end with the modern within that grade band, and then the color gradients inside of each grade level indicates that there is some layering of content in a way that builds foundational knowledge and allows kid students to make connections between the content they're learning and and they've learned previously, what they're learning in the present, and what they might learn in the future. Those three, grade levels in grades three through five would have that intentional layering and then would also focus on chronology.
As you can see with this particular model, the sixth, seventh, and eighth, as we are doing right now, is a repetition of those particular content areas, which was mentioned this morning. But sixth, seventh, and eighth actually then would allow greater depth, which is something we talked about, depth over breadth, of those topics in the upgrade levels when students are at a point when they can understand more complex material and think more critically about that material. When we were discussing this with the ad hoc committee, it was a lot of questions about, like, what what would that look like exactly?
What does that what does that mean? I can kinda conceptually see Road to the Republic, America's Journey, settlers to superpower, and and so on and so forth. But can you can you get a little bit more granular and give us an idea of what that might look like? So we tried to do that. This is an illustrative example, I think to to remember Frances's idea around ticks. And what would it look like if we took a TEC and tried to, exemplify this concept of course sequence, chronology, and layering? So this illustrative example is in the strand of government and civics.
It approaches grades three through five in the top box, and it's ancient to modern. So you can see there are some timelines that are assigned to each grade level, prehistory to 1,500, 1,500 to 1,800, and then late 1,800 to present. Again, this is just an example. In third grade, you have got students might study how early civilizations such as Greece and Rome develop the concepts of democracy in a republic to guide decision making, with citizens' participation. They would then take this knowledge into fourth grade where they could see the connections
between the early civilizations and The US constitution and tenets that limit government power and identify individual rights. And then students transition into fifth grade with this knowledge thread that supports their study of the civil war and how the conclusion of the war resulted in new freedoms and rights, including the Reconstruction Amendments and the origin of Juneteenth. This band of knowledge reinforces and connects how individual rights and the voice of the people have evolved in governmental structures over time as appropriate for this age group.
Right? This would represent that grade level band. So if you see the on the right hand side, it's got a three three three. The k two would be the first set of three where we're building background on people, places, events, and ideas. We take that background into our chronology in third through fifth grade, which is the next set of three. And then we move on to six through eight where they utilize similar time periods to create opportunities for deeper dive into similar content, in sixth grade evaluating how early governmental structures influence modern Constitutional Republic Of The US.
And that knowledge is then taken into seventh grade, where we dig deeper into specific principles such as rule of law, separation of powers, and popular sovereignty, which then culminates into eighth grade, which contrasts how the Supreme Court cases preserve and expand the rights of American citizens. And then in eighth grade, we actually have an opportunity to understand how the role of courts in The Soviet Union and China, are different, than how, American courts function in our governmental structure. And this aligns with the statutory requirement to teach about harmful
harmful effects of communist regimes. So this is a concrete example of how this might play out, in a three by three by three model that considers k two history, layering of content, and then chronology. Do you wanna go to the economics one? Sure. Then I'll come to you, member Brooks. We did one more to try to create additional opportunity. So same 3x3x3x3 model, we're looking at the strand of economics. And in this case, the same timelines are assigned to each grade level band. We focus on continuity and change in trade through history,
which includes learning about the Silk Road as an economic factor across continents in third grade, which then connects to British trade laws and the origins of the American Revolution and culminates in a study of trade and transportation in Texas, which highlights the Chisholm Trail. That is the third grade block of information, age appropriate, which then dives deeper into the six through eight where continuity and change in trade are exemplified by specific examples of actions and events in history,
such as the expansion of trade under the Mogul empire, trade policies with the Spanish impacting the American revolution, and then supply supply and demand railroad and access to markets that have impacted the cattle industry in Texas. So you can see how the connective tissue, goes from one grade level to the next and builds upon each other. I would highlight this complex, thinking about, member Little to your point. Like, how do we get kids to have the background knowledge and build upon that background knowledge? It's gonna take a lot of expertise to be able to create TEEX in this
manner, that would align with your recommendation of a framework. But your guidance on the sequencing will be very helpful, in understanding how to best create those ticks. I'll stop there. Sure. Chair? Member Hickman. I guess I'll start with what if I wanted to so I've got can you go back to the basic one, not the examples? Right here? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Number two. Okay. So let me do a couple examples and see where they would fit. If I wanted to do the establishment of Israel in 1948,
does that go in world, third or sixth, or does that go in modern, fifth or eighth? So are we dividing by timeline or topic or both? So I think that's a great question. I think that plays back to the idea of the framework where you think about what are the strands, what is the core sequence, and then what are the key topics that fit under those core sequence. So I think this body would need to provide guidance on if there are particular key topics that must be included statutorily or that you're interested in in including,
how would you organize those in a way that we would place them? I also think it's important to draw in content matter experts, to to provide guidance on that. I would tell you, I don't know that I have enough background to be able to give you an idea of where that would best be placed. Because I always get confused with matrixes or matrices. Matrix. I can do linear. So we can do a timeline, third, fourth, fifth, or I can do topics, third, fourth, fifth, but I'm not sure how to do both. Yeah. I think that's great point. Tie dye confuses me.
Yeah. That's a great point. I think it was our attempt at trying to show both chronology and layering, which is complex. Yeah. I guess my other I don't know if you were around. Commissioner Morath came a few years ago and presented something I would say was similar. Did you see that? Were you here? Yes, sir. Anyone else in the room remember that? Is this the same thing, or is this something different? It looks similar. It's similar. I wouldn't say it's exactly the same thing, but it has sort of the same feel. And my big concern,
the pushback that we got back last time, which is the reason we tabled them, is that there was too much world history at third, fourth, and fifth. And the fact that it appeared that we were doing away with Texas history, which when I look at this, the public is gonna think that too. And if some of y'all wanna really have some fun, you can do away with Texas history, and you're gonna really have some fun. Sure. The ad hoc committee's intent certainly was not to do away with Texas history.
I would advise that we need to if we were to pursue something like this, we would need to quantify how much Texas history is going to be in here and make sure it is very clear from this board on what the guidance is before we go into development of any TEKS. And I would do that by watching the names of the courses of each grade level. Correct. Well, I would also I think we should add a percentage of content that is Texas based. Well, you can, but I'm talking about optics and perception.
And Agree. I just we've gotta be very careful because last time, it looked like there I mean, when we looked at those standards, there were there was a lot of Texas history in there, but the public did not see it. And, I mean, you wanna talk about a full in mailbox. What I wanna talk about is making sure that we are clear with titles, as you're saying, but also numerically, mathematically of how much content is going to be Texas and potentially trying to expand the amount of Texas content that we have.
And the other thing that you need to be careful of with something like this is that our standards are not appearing to be globalist. That was another problem that we ran into last time. So you might wanna do the reverse and have a percentage of everything that's in here, world history, Texas history, US history, and be sure that all of that is very clear. If the board chooses to go that way, my desire is to put numbers on it. Member Hickman, were you Yeah. I, share the battle scars of my colleague. And I actually was thinking the same thing,
Chair. I can get behind a little bit of tie dye if we're saying it's 90% world, 90% U. S. In fourth, 90% Texas in fifth, with a little bit of addition of other stuff to create context. But the way these colors are, it seems more like a chronological approach. So there are some world topics like, just tell you that some traveling Lenin Shipyard in Gdansk. You want to talk about the solidarity movement, how the union killed communism in Poland. I think that's a great story to tell,
but that's a world story in 1980. It's not exactly clear to me where you slot that in here. So I think we need to think about but if we have two dedicated years of Texas, for me that's a line in the sand, and we can kind of quantify how much Texas in the tie dye, I think we can move forward. Yeah. I think we're a little limited on the graphic here by the tie dye, limitations of PowerPoint. Right. So I don't know that those are mathematically accurate. I've I've been holding on coming to member Brooks real quick,
and then I'll grab Del Maru and doctor Ellis. Thank you. And and I agree because you have dates here. You have dates prehistory of fifteen hundred AD in third grade. So that will insinuate that that's where that history is going to start at the beginning of that school year. One of the reasons why you look at the option number one, it's it's that way for your lower grades, is because we gotta look at the cognitive development of children. So if I'm looking at the development of a kindergartner and I'm going to look at,
the world history point of view before I give them the foundation in in their community and their state and their nation. And, and then they don't have a a place of, of of a baseline to to reference that from. History is difficult because of the time. And when you're a little child, when you have the the developmental mind of a young person, you really don't have a grasp on time. So you do have to start in bite sized pieces because, developmentally, I think it's it's fair of us to use that when we're looking at the
reason why we initially had social study or had social studies written the way it is where we we started off with modern, because that's something that a child can see and relate to. I can relate to, George Washington as opposed to Farrow when because that's in my in my periphery. I can see that. I understand that. So I just recommend that while we're looking at this these new ideas that we put in perspective developmentally, how do children process information and how best to teach them this so that we're
giving them a good foundation. And and I I agree with member Hickman. You know, the emphasis should be 90% of, you know, the focus in kindergarten, the focus in first grade, the focus in third grade. You know, Texas history, there there's a reason why we teach those first. There's a reason. And then when you expand it, I mean, I understand the idea of world history love it, but, again, that can take the focus. And I studied those those ticks in 2022. And and I was concerned about this very thing, to be quite truthful.
I'm trying to track what you're saying. So you're saying in the in the lower grades, k through two, you need more George Washington and less pharaoh? Is that what I heard? Okay. So what I'm saying is there's a reason why you have this option one. This option one that probably seems dinosaur age. Right? But there's a purpose. There's a reason why in in option one, It's it's written this way, why we teach children this way. And, again, it's because of the development, the cognitive development of a child. So if you look at the first one,
I'm trying to what what page okay. So page 22. It it kindergarten, self, home, and family. There's a reason why we start there because developmentally, that's how a child processes that information. First grade, school, and community. Sure, we can look at first, second, and third kinda, using this approach at a minimum, adding the world history component to it, but still focusing on these school and community, community state and nation. There's a reason why it's like that. I think we don't have to throw the baby out with the water.
I think we can still focus on on this method framework and build on it knowing that the emphasis cannot be world history in these lower grades. So there's a reason we teach fourth grade Texas history. I get like member Hickman said, what if you give me 90% of this focus to Texas history or 90% in fifth grade US history, and then we can layer it, that would make more sense because I we have to look at the developmental
process stages of a child when I think making these decisions on the difference between these other options. So I just wanted the board to understand there's a reason why we taught like option one because developmentally, that's how children process information, especially time, time lapse. Understood. I would point you to, slide what is this? Nine? Slide number nine in the bottom left hand corner. Shannon, can your team maybe find a link to that research and Certainly.
And send that out because it addresses some of what you're, what you're talking about. And I think, option one there is really status quo. It's what we're doing right now, and I think we've heard at the ad hoc committee and the public testimony, I know several of you came to that. And then in conversations I've had across the an ideological spectrum, nobody's really in agreement that what we're doing is working. Based off what? NAEP data. Social studies, STAAR test? I mean, what argument would you make that what we're doing is working?
Well, I mean, I think we need to look at a lot of things. For one, teachers say they don't even have time to teach you what's history or history period. So, they're trying to fit this in, their schedule. I think there's a whole lot of other issues with that we need to take a look at. They say there's a lot of TEKS and there's just not a lot of time. So, again, there's other elements. And and at what point would we say there was a decline in social studies? I mean, I I wouldn't just use that as as an isolated form. I'm not saying that there's no way we can't find a good happy marriage between
the this of Today's my anniversary. Oh, happy anniversary. Oh, it's It's Marty Mary. But but you know what I mean, though. I think we we can't just forget. We I think we have to keep all you can't just forget the developmental process stages of a child. I I I think that has to to come first in in order to to understand. And it's the lower grades I'm looking at this. Like, first, second, third, fourth. I mean, you're building foundation here. So so now you're going into six, seven, eight. I I don't know. I just I think we can find a nice balance.
And and I would love to use a a balanced approach because, again, my concern when we went here in 2022, there was a focus on world religion or I'm sorry, world history at the younger grades. And even when I'm looking at some of the other curriculum that's out there, like, I look at Amplify. Amplify has a world. It starts with world history early. I was looking at some of that curriculum. So I don't know if we have looked at our our curriculum in that at in that respect. So I think there's a lot of things we need to look at too.
Sure. I look forward to working with you on that. I don't think we should emphasize world history at the expense of US or Texas history. I think those should be the primary. But we do live in the world and need some contextual, contextualization for those subjects. So look forward to working with you hopefully in September and between now and then. Doctor Balmedaro? I I have to say I agree with a lot of what member Brooks said, especially when you look at Sequence two, which is, taking, for example, in fourth grade, America's journey from settlers to superpower.
That's going to take them across a huge amount of time and into an era where they don't understand what a superpower is. I mean, I think that's something they might be able to address when they're in sixth grade. But I I really believe that you do have to look at the size of the world for these kids from a developmental perspective. And, it may make a snappy sort of title, say, American Journey, Settlers to Superpower, but I don't think it's developmentally,
useful. And then from frontier to leader, the story of Texas in America, There again, I I'm I'm not sure that that's a fifth grade option, maybe sixth grade. And then we're going back in in sixth grade, road to the republic. It it just seems like it's it's kind of all over the place and not in a a logical, sequence. Yes. I think we weren't very clear, in the presentation of this. Those titles were examples of potential titles. I don't think that I don't want to speak for the whole committee, but I don't think there was we didn't spend a lot of time worrying about
the titles. We were trying to, draw this, as an illustration to be able to have this discussion. On the fourth grade, in US history, essentially, if you look back let me find the slide real quick. Well, maybe it didn't make it on a slide. But the, right now, in k through eighth, The US history ends post civil war. So right now, we're not teaching anything from the twentieth century or the twenty first century. And that's a problem. That's a problem for sure. We can agree on that, that there's been some significant things happen that affect our lives since then.
And I think around sixth grade is probably a more appropriate time to go into that. The earlier history is a little bit more amenable to creating a story, And I think that's something that the younger grades can can grasp. I think the tricky part is gonna be explaining the civil war because you're gonna have to introduce slavery and all of that. Well, the civil war is already being covered, but what's not is the car. And kids ride in cars every day, and we don't have anything about the invention of the car,
the airplane. No. I I agree. I agree. We agree. Member Hickman. Can I ask you a question on '32 or '19? It's the tiles. I think it's called strands strands option two. Okay. These tiles. So I don't know if you heard the testimony. There was, I think, a proposal for 10 themes. We have here a proposal for six strands, and then I think our existing was eight strands. Yes, sir. So my question is this. Do we have an economics header and then we put Romans,
Greeks and Egyptians under that? Or do we have Romans as the header and have all six of these strands under that when we're building the TEKS, building the textbook, building lesson plans, kind of the whole how do how do you see those organized? The way the current strands are organized is the strands are apparent in each grade level, and then Right. Teaks are organized under each strand. So there's a set of government, there's a set of economics, there's a set, you know, under each other geography.
Okay. So in And that's how it's currently done. Yeah. To the testimony earlier, like, I think there's a variety of ways to attack that. It depends on the purview of which way we wanna go and how you how closely you wanna align to that research, of saying, is the chronology the important part? And then we, you know, organize the strands under the time period, and then that's what drives it. Or is it the layering? I think there's more than one way to to do that. So not a consensus in the research for saying No,
sir. Economics and then put all the people, places, events under equal? Lot of people do it differently. Okay. So I don't know that I have a good recommendation as to how to approach that. Chair, did the committee decide upon talk about that? We didn't decide anything. Okay. What was that? Sorry. That is so my example is, say you wanna talk about economics. Do you have economics as the topic and then you put, say it's third grade, Roman economics, Greek economics, Egyptian economics under that?
Or do you talk about the Romans and you do all six of these strands in the Romans, then you move on to the Greeks, do all six, then you move on to the Egyptians, do all six? We did not discuss that specifically. Okay. Doctor. Belmetto, I owe you an apology. I was wrong on the history. The vice chair corrected me. So Fifth grade we go through present day. Mr. Mayor. Mr. Chairman, if not, and I just, and if I could, I wanna just offer a little bit of context and I guess if you hang around long enough you get to do this.
And I hear what you're saying about what is developmentally appropriate And I will tell you that what was kind of contemplated in the last attempted revision was not appropriate. There was a whole bunch essentially that you know, the work groups took took world history and dumped it down at the elementary grades. And if you looked at it, it's well, if you just wanna make children hate social studies, this this will do it right here. If that's your mission, this will do it.
But the idea that we can't teach history content at that grade is is is absurd. It's absurd on its face. And now you have to do it differently. And I think that doctor Phil Mitterue used a little phrase and talked about stories. Well, we've been teaching ancient history and stories at Vacation Bible School and Sunday School for for eons. But they're couched. What would tell bible stories? Well, that's ancient history. So there is a way to do that.
But certainly the way that you do that for a kindergartner is not the same as you would do it as a sophomore in high school. Now I think what you have to do is is that we have to you know, and I'll go back and say, well, our standards are called the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills. And so I think, you know, part of that is is that we have to say, well, we have to start with the end in mind. So when we have someone who graduates from K through 12, what should they know and know how to do? What should they understand? And we are building that understanding over a long period of time.
And how do we lay the foundations of that in an engaging kind of way that is age appropriate, that is fun. In fact, I would argue that when you look at the the standards as they currently are today, they're very process oriented. And, you know, frankly, teaching those things in a in a vacuum is not very engaging to a child. But if you put them in the context of a story that has a historical basis, Children love stories, and you can teach all of that process.
You can teach all of those skills while you're telling the story that is tied to history. So, yes, we can do all of this. I think we can. And so we just have to have the will to do it. I believe we can do it. Doctor. Hoss. This is back to Mr. Hickman's question he asked about two times ago. He asked if anyone remember the chronological. I vaguely remember the chronological process we went through. But a question for you, Mr. Chairman, from the Committee's perspective, and I did jump ahead. I cheated. I looked at option number three. His question was,
is this option number two similar to that chronological? I want to see more of that in Option three. How would you compare what we're contemplating Option two compared to what we contemplated last time? Is that do you consider that similar or is that more to what Option three is going to be if I since I jumped ahead? Well, I didn't see a slide on exactly the presentation y'all got from, three years ago or so when y'all took this up. So I I can't combine specifically on it. But my recollection from watching, outside this room was it was like a three plus six or something like that,
which is much more similar to option three. However, there are some similarities in the way things are are spiraled throughout here. So so some similarities, but we took exactly what the last this last attempt said, hey, start with member Hickman's amendment, which looks a lot like this as far as sequencing and go from there and added some of those concepts in. But in summary, option three, I believe, is much more similar to what y'all
I don't know if you started there, but what you I think we're trying to do. I'm not sure. I don't wanna speak for a prior chairman. Thank you. Member Pickering. Thank you, mister chairman. So in the 2022 social studies, as someone who spent a lot of hours in this room, but in the space of our testifiers and attendees, I have a little bit different perspective and spent hours upon hours on on that social studies, refresh, rewrite, whatever it was. I don't know what to call it. But that's why I really have a great appreciation building on what member Brooks was
saying. I have and member Little, I have a great appreciation for this, option number two because, number one, in my humble opinion, I think our our current standards right now, kindergarten through second grade, the academic rigor is way too low for what our children are capable of. And then number two is an option number two. What I also like about it is in kindergarten through second grade, it focuses on America and Texas. So we are building in that appreciation and that love of freedom and appreciation for
our state and our country starting at the young ages, starting at kindergarten, first, and second grade to address member Brooks' concern. Now on the on the gradient on the color gradients, third, fourth, fifth, as a very proud Texan, you know, I love to think that Texas is the center of the universe, and I would like to see those color gradients shift. I will, I want our students to be proud of our state. It's a great state. Greatest state in the in the history of the world, probably. Definitely greatest state in the country. But I want our students to learn that love and the deep appreciation for our
very rich history in our state. And so I'm not opposed to Road of the Republic or America's Journey. I'm not opposed to the to that concept. I just wanna see these gradients shift. I want it to be more Texas, more America, and then how does everything else relate to that and support that. Right? Because Texas is a constitutional republic just like The United States Of America. So I wanna know, well, how did we get there? Did the, you know, democracy from the Greeks, republic for the Romans? But I want it to be Texas centered and then the influence of the Greeks
and the Romans on us. Thank you. So to the earlier conversation, do you think we can get there with quantification? I'm so sorry, mister chairman. Do you think we can get there by quantifying what our objectives are? I do. I think we can. Mister chair, may I ask something? Senator Brooks. Yeah. I think the dates are bothersome to me. But in all fairness, without joking, the the I I do believe that skills, that's an important strand. Just for staff to understand, you know, because that is foundation. That would be part of the the framework. I would love to see
skills in in a strand, and I would just love for you to reconsider that when you're you're looking. I don't think we have to get rid of anything, if if we were to include skills with the technology only because that is social studies, teaching them how to yeah. So that's bothering me a little bit. But I think you're right. I think that the titles are a little I think Maynard is correct. There is a way to make a happy balance, but, I I would like to see skills mentioned as a maybe integrated up there.
I I maybe I'm going ahead of myself, but skills and technology, I think, would just gonna put that out there. Sure. So we can address that when we come back. Again, one of the objectives here is to get get it out there so people can talk about it. We can receive feedback from the public, from practitioners, etcetera. As far as the titles and the dates, I would try not to get hung up on those. If you have it's more illustrative. So it's more about the concept at this point. September, it will be about something else. So we'll need to have some specificity then.
Are you ready for option three? So a third option per course sequence was presented to the ad hoc committee for consideration. This third option, follows what we would call a three by five by one model where kinder through second represents the the foundation, and it's similar to option two, in that we are focusing on content, that teaches history. The big difference in this option is the idea that third through seventh grade would create a longer ramp for chronology.
So you can see on the slide, ancient to the modern world, the arrow, instead of crossing just three, four, and five and and encompassing that into one grade band and then six, seven, and eight in one grade band, we now are looking at ancient to modern from third through seventh grade. And then eighth grade would be a culmination grade level that would take everything learned in third through seventh and focus on Texas history in the context of what was learned in the previous grades.
So we gave some examples of this per request from the ad hoc committee similar to option two. So the next slides, just represent same ideas of government and civics, utilizing the three by five, the five representing grades three through seven, and then the one representing eighth grade. And let me see if I can run through this. This in this example, the time frames have been assigned as an illustrative example. These are not recommendations. It's just a way to to demonstrate what this might look like. It's the same with the color gradients again.
Third grade students gain an essential knowledge about the foundational examples of legal codes from early civilizations that they can take into fourth grade to better understand the structure and and intent of the Magna Carta, to recognize citizens' rights and follow agreed upon laws. Fifth graders build on this foundation, diving into the enlightenment ideas, including the rule of law and its influence on The United States Constitutional Republic. Sixth graders then connect a story of the reconstitution, Reconstruction amendments,
my apologies, that expanded citizens' rights and redefined government responsibilities. And then seventh graders compare and contrast the role of The US in developing democratic governments post World War two in West Germany and South Korea as an example. Eighth graders then focus on the transition of Texas from republic to statehood using all of that great knowledge that they have built from third through seventh grade, where they can better understand the balance of sub rule and the need to align
with federal constitutional and enlightenment principles. This model of layered and chronological content builds background on the development of structures and functions of government throughout history and then provides historical examples of democratic ideals, rights of citizens, and rule of law. The second example that we provided was related to economics just as before. Again, just an illustrative example. No concrete. No nothing in stone. It is in the economic strand, layered in chronological content,
again, in a three by five by one. Builds knowledge about the formation of economic structures and markets like trade networks with ancient civilizations in third grade, the Silk Road leading to the age of exploration, free markets, etcetera, that can be exemplified in historical context, demonstrating concepts of supply and demand, limited government, private property, and competition, showing how all these concepts evolved over time. So you've got a broader perspective across history and, the need to create that connective tissue so that comparison and contrast can happen,
and the depth can go where we would like it to go with with rigorous content. That's the second, example that was provided for option three. Those were the three options presented to the ad hoc committee for consideration during the final meeting. I'll stop there, chair. Vice Sharlow. I would agree with Doctor. Ellis. This looks very much like what we tabled last time, this option three. I also was wondering, Shannon, did you reach out to any, TCSS or supervisors or any teachers or anybody who's actually teaching the social studies to
get their input to help you craft some of these slides? We have not done an extensive amount of input. I did look back through, the input that was provided previously. I read up online of different organizations and their stances on this with the research with the different states. So, we compiled based on this, you know, stable, what was available online with me knowing that we would have the opportunity to gather more input as this process. I would strongly recommend that we involve them because that was another lesson that we
learned the hard way last time. Yes, ma'am. Any further questions? Doctor. Ellis? Just following up on what Ms. Little said. I know that there's a lot of people that worked on this last time and a lot of staff work here. Just so when people we go out to the field and we're talking about this, the BRAIN trust, was this mainly from TEA staff or what? These were based on the research that was presented, the three practices, the different states that we looked at, and then the body of, the I guess the question is the we. Who's the we? The staff compiled all of that information into what's presented.
PA staff. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Yes. So moving forward, the final piece of a framework that we, originally looked at in the beginning of the slides was strands, course sequence, which just completed this conversation, and the idea of topics and primary sources, the discussion at the ad hoc committee, established that it would be important to understand the strands and the course sequence in order to be able to identify key topics and primary sources. So, structurally, the idea of strand decisions,
core sequence decisions, and then selecting key topics and primary sources would come after that information has been established. That was the final discussion. Chair, I close, our presentation. Any more questions for Shannon? Member Brooks? Yeah. So Microphone, please. Your last statement, you would like the board to do what today? I guess is ideally. You were saying strands. Could you just kind of Let me see if I can summarize. If you go back to the pyramid from the beginning, it's on page 13, for example. The bottom says key topics and primary sources.
It's really hard to identify what you want that to be if you haven't figured out the other pieces and where that goes. So You're wanting to do what, I guess? Nothing right now. We need to make some other decisions before we can get to that point is kind of the conclusion. Is that Yes, sir. Okay. Any other questions for Shannon? Okay. So the recommendations, you have those in here from the ad hoc committee. And again, these are recommendations on, the work that we have done. We're presenting that to the board. No decision is going to be made, but we are going to put it out there so we can start to get
comments and feedback on that from the public. Basically is the combination of existing strand titles, as well as course sequence number two. And those are repeated in your slideshow. So where do we go from here? Like I said earlier, wanted to get this thing into everybody's hands and into the public so we can begin the conversation. But we do have a timeline that we're very tight on, so we need to make some progress. So my plan is to come back in the September meeting and discuss this again
and take hopefully take action on selecting a framework so that we can kick things off from there. When I say hopefully take some action, it's because if we don't take action, we will essentially are gonna bust our timeline. So typically, the work group process, for instance, takes about twelve months. So we're already gonna be compressing a few things, in order to meet the deadline that was laid out in the statute that just passed. Yes, ma'am. Shannon, can we send this to all members electronically,
please? Doctor. Ellis? Along that, when and where will this be posted for the public? Shannon? This presentation was utilized in the ad hoc committee meeting yesterday. I defer to SVOE staff on where it will be posted. The, SBOE website has an ad hoc committee on social studies page, And you can visit that just by, Googling simply SBOE ad hoc committee on social studies. But we will also send that link out, to, the members. And then we will also talk to communications to see if they can post that
on our social media websites as well. Doctor Oz, is it on there now, or will it be or when will it be? Yes. It's in there now. All previous, minutes for each meeting are already posted on that website, and the presentation from the eighteenth, June 18. So our very first meeting is online. And then subsequent meetings, since they were just here, in the last week, will be posted today, this afternoon, as soon as this meeting concludes. So this will be posted today? Yes, sir. Perfect. Thanks. Through the chair. And how I'm gonna grab Member Maynor real quick and then come to you,
sorry. Member Maynor. Yeah, and I think that just as a matter of just kind of maybe in everybody's mind where we know this is kind of going because people will ask us. So if we complete this, second ready to final adoption in 2026, That would be assuming that if we finish this, say, in June of twenty twenty six, we would assume then that we would do an IMRA cycle for 2027 that would probably conclude about, what,
November of 'twenty seven. And so this should be implementation for fall of 'twenty eight. Is that about right? It's actually later than that. Let me consult my timeline right here. That's true. I think it's, implementation '29. '29. '29. Okay. Because you have the I think the thing you missed was the development of the materials. Development. Exactly. Yeah. So that's the thing is is that and and then sometimes people don't quite understand this is that, you know, this is a this is a big shift in current, and it doesn't turn fast.
It says, well, assuming that we redo these standards, well, when will they actually be in classrooms? Well, not for a while. So, okay, thank you. It doesn't turn fast, but we need to move without delay, I would say, without undue delay. To that note, it would be worth everybody considering content advisors because we're probably going to need to do that. We'll send an email out about that in the coming probably days, maybe couple of weeks about content advisors in September because we need to kick that process off. And we have a SPOE
TEEX development process that we have agreed to previously. So we'll be kicking it off with content advisors. So be thinking about that. Sure. Member Revellas and then Hickman. I just want to know if the when we post these on the website, will there be instructions there on providing comment? Will there be some sort of button or link or some or email, in order to to allow the public and anyone else to provide comment since we're seeking comment through this this process. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think,
generally, we're seeking feedback. I hadn't thought about it yet. I'll I will get back with you. Thank you. We gotta make sure our process because up until recently, we did not have a process for seeking comments on things that were not rules. This is not technically a rule yet. So the framework is not. The TEKS will be in rule. So I need to go to consult the process that we just set up for a different item that we'll talk about later, I'm sure. Sounds good.
Thank you. Member Hegman? Related question, Member Revolos, is I would suggest I know I get a social studies email periodically from TEA. I don't know if we could just put slides thirty two and thirty three, which are the recommendations to get that out to the field. I don't know if TEA staff can comment on that. If that's your wish, we can certainly include that in a social statement. Just a suggestion. Sure. I'm not I was left off that email, so But there's a number of emails TEA sends. You can sign up for all sorts of things, the commissioner's rules,
and there's a science, and there's all sorts of topics that they send out emails every week. You gotta sign up. Further questions, comments? Okay. We've been out for two hours and fifteen minutes. So, we'll go ahead and take a fifteen minute break. Come back at 03:31. First, we are back. We're going to pick up on item number two from today's agenda for the Committee of Full Board, math ad hoc committee update. At this point in time, I'll turn it over to the Chairman of that committee, Member Francis. Thank you, Chairman. Members, on your table,
you will see a timeline for the ad hoc committee on math instruction framework. And you will also see the charges as was given by Chairman Kinsey on December 3, just confirming that all members have this in their possession. Okay. Chairman, thank you again for your, continued confidence, in my leadership. And I am pleased to also introduce my, committee members. Miss Stacy Chiles serves alongside, me and doctor Kevin Ellis, mister Tom Maynard, miss Pam Little.
For our committee staff, miss Monica Martinez, which serves as our committee director, and miss Alejandra Perones, which serves as our our committee clerk. We previously had miss Sarah Harrington, but I I I'll say that we do very good work at the ad hoc committee on math instruction framework. She was stolen from me by none other than the speaker of the house, so she's working for the house right now. So just pleased to say that, mister chairman, when you gave us this charge on December 3, with a eighteen month timeline,
final report and recommendations due no later than November 2026, Our committee started eight days later. We had our first meeting on December 11 for organization. And at this organizational meeting, we reviewed the charges that we were given by you. We discussed items related to charge number one, which is a strength and the weakness analysis. TA staff presented an overview of the National Assessment of Educational Progress,
NAEP, data. They also presented a high level overview of Texas math standards and related assessments. And we discussed the the document that you're seeing, which is the timeline that we had here, for future meet meeting meetings planning. And what we did was we planned for the all of 2025, as you could see here, and the topics that we we wanted to discuss based on the charges that we were given. So our first real meeting, discussing other charges, meeting number two took place on March 27.
Staff gave, the following presentations related to charge number one, which included a deep dive into Texas standards development. We reviewed the current Texas Essential knowledge and skills and the Texas College and Career Readiness Standards. We also, chairman and members, compared, did a comparison with high performing frameworks. So we did a landscape analysis of US state standards from other leading states. And we also looked at the Singapore standards because, as we realized a lot of,
states, including ours, adopted very similar standards to what Singapore is using. We also did a deep dive into, in general, the Texas state assessment program, so the STAR program. The top performance, as we identified from NAEP, were states, of Massachusetts, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Nebraska, and a suite of schools ran and operated by the Department of Defense. What we found, members, was that, when we looked at the analysis of where Texas was in terms of standards, we highlighted areas,
where Texas were well aligned with the high performing, states. There were there were a few gaps, worth addressing. For example, all top performers had eight process standards. Texas had seven. Something that was missing, and I think it's very interesting that, I personally and others have heard, this critique of our standards, there was no process standards specific to the attention to precision that these other states had. So basically, right answers are important and there was a specific process standard,
for that. Texas does not have that currently. So the the committee noticed this as something, that was important, that was missing from our standards. We are also the only state with a personal finance literacy strand in math for k through eight, which is something interesting. Staff shared a comparison of the National Mathematics Advisory Panel benchmarks for critical foundations and the relevant TEKS and also shared an overview of the Texas response to curriculum focus
points focal points. Sorry. These documents we have, archived on our SharePoint, and I'll just give some instructions at the end of my presentation. Our members could access this. Just one thing to note here before I move on is the curriculum focal points, discuss areas where mathematics instruction should be taught given these particular, important topics and the timeline of introduction to students. Texas, along with other states, were well aligned with not only the the specific topics,
but also the stage where where students should be introduced to these topics. So, I was well pleased to see that at least. So I provided examples of, of how as curriculum standards increased in rigor over the years, the state's summative assessment followed. So the the assessment team looked to the board of education when we reviewed TEKS. We increased the rigor, and the rigor of the assessment, also followed. On our third meeting, which was on 05/31/2025,
TA staff gave the following presentations related to charge number five, implementation considerations. We had a deep dive presentation into educator preparation, certification, and continuing education. We also had an overview of mathematics achievement academies. And my comments to the commissioner yesterday was that, I'll have the committee receive some information on the mathematics intervention academies. We did not have a chance to do that as yet. The committee discussed preliminary planning, also for a stakeholder engagement, including a summer public hearing,
which I'll discuss in more detail, very shortly, and a listening session at the conference for the advancement of mathematics in in July. So, chairman and and other members, or or ad hoc committee is really, as I said, looking under every every stone, and really, you know, as an engineer myself, I know how important mathematics is. Actually, I was in discussions with some professors that, you know, we were starting to see this the level of preparation or the lack thereof from
students when they leave or or charges just k through 12 into higher ed. And so I'm also looking at that gap to see what we could do better and the, the sort of, collaborations that we can be had with with with higher ed folks as well. During this meeting, the committee discussed the importance of improving automaticity and, immediate recall of mathematics facts, the importance of educator preparation programs, ensuring future educators have strong math knowledge. We heard from the commissioner yesterday
about recent legislation as it relates to math academies, which will be mandatory for certain grade bands. I believe that's k through three. There's also going to be an incentives for the EPPs in bringing all candidates through, the math academies. So we we'll see just a strong mathematics preparation for teachers, coming very shortly. And, of course, as I mentioned before, the mathematics intervention academies, is also is also going to be going to be helpful to strengthen our educator
preparation and also our our in service, teachers. We we the committee received an overview of all the math teacher certificates and requirements. As it relates to EPP, the committee had a question on if the state board for educator certification had a criteria to evaluate under yearly performance assessment for EPPs. Well, specifically, they were training math educators. We're still waiting for that answer. The other question was in service teachers. What sort of continuing education courses were available to teachers,
especially math teachers, and is there a rule to require a certain number of credits in actual math, math subjects, math oriented, presentations for educators, and we're we're waiting for that answer. I believe the answer right now is is no, but we've asked, Aspect to come up with a solution on what we could do, and that will turn into a part of our recommendation as well if they're they can't do that by by rule or or current statute allows them to do that.
As I mentioned, our next meeting, and as you can see outlined, will be July 25. So I know, chairman, that you had your, your public meeting already as of April or committee as we're on an extended timeline or public meeting would be, this July 25, here in Austin over at the William B Travis Building. The committee intends to hear invited testimony and public testimony. We will be asking testifiers to address the following topics, the classroom experience standards and instructional materials,
mathematics educator preparation, success and limitations in fostering math fluency, and impacts on student motivation. During our discussions members, we've identified that math, unlike English, is not something that gets discussed or is sort of not revisited as frequently as, say, English. And, and we want to investigate ways, where we could impact student motivation. So that's why, I've included that as a topic for, for testimony. And, we're also going to be inviting some national leaders and experts in math.
So we'll have a a topic on national perspectives on mathematics education. In this public testimony, I am very targeted to encourage, anyone who wants to discuss, their perspective on math. So we'll be reaching out and particularly targeting students, current and former students, k through 12 or if you're in in, high school or college recently, teachers, active teachers and past teachers, parents, and, community members. As I was mentioning before, the we have a wealth of information that we have gathered so far.
Staff has made a SharePoint for for the committee, which is available to all State Board of Education members right now. But, I know that you wouldn't have known that until I said so. So I have given everyone access. However, I've asked staff to send an email with a link so that you will be able to view the information that we have collected so far. The information so far, you will get an instruction on It's it's really a lot of information, and and we've tried to place them in folders that make sense.
But, I'm gonna ask miss Martinez to give you, an outlook, an outline, sorry, on what each document means and how to navigate through through the SharePoint site. It includes such things as the historical star data, data from, NAEP and other resources, and, research activities that this committee will look, and investigate shortly. I'll pause here for some questions, but that concludes, the majority of my updates. Thank you. Okay. Members, do we have any questions for member Francis?
Member Picker? Thank you, mister chairman. Member Francis, we've talked about this quite a bit in this circle or horseshoe, whatever we are right now. Anyways, about the the change in math methodology that happened around 02/2010, 2012 or, the nation as a whole because I don't believe that this, math decline is unique to Texas. When you look at NAEP scores, the whole nation has been in decline since 02/2012. And so, thank you for all of the research and work that y'all are doing, but I would really appreciate if y'all would look at,
kind of the way math shifted in 2012 to what it used to be, teaching more of a classical style of math. So if you can, I don't know if that staff gathers data for you or what have you, but so still from constituents, parents are really upset that they cannot do the math homework with their children? And we just have all kinds of studies and data that shows that parent involvement is the biggest factor in student success. And so we, we've gotta we've gotta get ahead of this. We need great engineers.
We need great scientists. We need people that you know, business people can do math. So I would just appreciate if you would look at what it looks like on classical models is and, kinda everything around that. Standards, maybe, instructional materials. I'm not I'm not even sure that there's classical instructional materials still available since this huge shift in 02/2010, 02/2012, but I'd appreciate you looking into it. Thank you, member Pickering. And, I I I'll say that I definitely would like us to have, you know, good engineers, to take over for me when, you know, I decide to retire.
But I remember us talking, myself and our our committee director. Miss Martinez, we talked some somewhat about, classical math. I I can't remember what's the last thing we discussed, but are we going to have some, testimony on classical math and sort of this this shift? I I think what you might be referring to, mister Francis, is we, were recently made aware of a set of standards, math standards that I think, very closely aligns with what you just described. So, that was something that we shared with mister Francis,
and we'll share a copy of those standards with the rest of the board so that you can take a look at that. To the extent that that appears to be, the, type of structure that the board is interested in, we are also looking to see where do our current TEKS, potentially align or not with those standards as as an additional comparison. Miss Martinez, do you remember the name of of those standards that we we found? I I I don't wanna misspeak. So let me go look it up. Okay. We'll get that sent out, with the email about the SharePoint today.
Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you, mister chairman. Any other questions or comments? Thank you, chairman. If I if I may close. So, just going back to the your timeline. So we're at our meet meeting number four. That's our invited testimony and also a public testimony on 07/25/2025 here in Austin at the William B Travis Building. So our old building, but in the Ground Floor. August 18, we'll have our next meeting on instructional materials deep dive.
And then, the September meeting, we'll be looking at the study of instructional delivery challenges. And our last meeting for 2025 in October, we'll be doing a really thorough review on, relevant research as it relates to mathematics education, mathematics instruction, and instructional delivery and design. All members of the board are, welcome to to attend our meetings if you if you are in town. I will also say that the committee is in full compliance with,
State Board of Education operating rules, chapter one, section two gs. We have posted our meetings, including our first meeting on December 11, on our state board of education website. For those who are ready and willing to jump on there right now, when you go to our sb0e.texas.gov, if you would, navigate over to related content, which is the rightmost, link, if you click that or hover over it, you'd see another drop down called ad hoc meetings.
When you click that, you will see both the ad hoc committee on social studies and the ad hoc committee on math. Clicking ad hoc committee on math, you'll see all our meeting agenda and our handouts to date. Okay. Well, thank you to the committee. Thank you, member Francis, for chairing, and thank you to the committee. I know you have met several times as discussed here, so appreciate your hard work on that. As we saw from, yesterday's yesterday morning's presentation, we clearly, need to get our arms around this math problem that we have and come up with some concrete solutions.
So look forward to seeing your final work product here in a few months. Thank you, chairman. And just special thanks to my members, as I mentioned before. Not only do they come to say board of education meetings, but, we have decided that we're our committee would meet on the off cycle. So they're here actually probably every other month for the remainder of this year. So thank you for your patience and thank you for your commitment to Texas Education. Okay. We will move to the next item, which is item number one from today, consideration of renewal for the ethnic studies,
American Indian native studies innovation course. It's on your board agenda, page two dash 47, and we have public testimony for this item. So I'll ask for staff to brief the rules and call our first panel. Public testimony is limited to two minutes per speaker. The timer will be in front of you and count down the time. You may begin your testimony when the yellow light blinks, and you will have thirty seconds when it goes to solid yellow. Please end your testimony when you see the red light. If you have any copies of your testimony,
please provide that to the staff when you're about to speak. Supporters of testifiers may not gather behind the podium. Testifiers are free to use a portion of their testimony time to acknowledge supporters seated in the audience. And as a reminder, the board's operating rules state that no posters, props, flags, noisemakers, or other visual displays are allowed. Feel free to use jazz hands. We're gonna start with Lara Rios Ramirez. Some Pranthena Cundeira, Thomas Daugherty, and Walter Daugherty. Lara Rios Ramirez? Hi. My name is Laura. Yoelflau is Rio Ramirez.
I am part of Calpulia Yolopaxin based out of San Antonio, Tejas, the Yanawana region of Somi Sec territory. And I'm here on behalf of our community and also as a long time educator of thirty years, serving, public schools, through after school programming, through as, as a teacher, as a substitute, and also as a lecturer in the University of Texas, institutional system, through, the Department of Race, Ethnic, and Gender Studies. And today, what I would like to, appeal to in in your hearts,
right, is the importance of, you know, maintaining the presence of, the option for districts to be able to offer the American Indian and native studies course in, in their curriculums and for local communities to be able to opt in whether or not they want to implement this, you know, this course or not, leaving that choice to the communities. Right? Because we're not trying to, you know, equate this to an ethnic studies, type of,
or, you know, DEI. All of the things that make people scared about, you know, division and whatnot. You know, these courses actually teach us, the principles of being indigenous in our communities, which are very inclusive and allow us to learn from each other in ways that inspire the diaspora of people that we have in our school districts. You know? I I know that these particular courses have been really instrumental in, in building the foundation for understanding our shared humanity,
our unity. And I just think it would be a great opportunity for districts to have that choice to be able to implement these in their schools. Thank you. So, Printhana Kundera? Good afternoon. My name is Samprathena Akilokundara, and I'm representing Asian Texans for Justice, a nonpartisan, nonprofit dedicated to connecting Asian American Pacific Islander Texans to civic action. Today, I urge the State Board of Education to renew the American Indian and Native Studies innovative course. At Asian Texans for Justice, we envision a Texas where all people feel bold in their belonging.
To create this future, we must have an inclusive and representative curriculum in our classrooms. We know what we teach in our classrooms directly shapes the leaders of tomorrow, making it essential that we provide students with inclusive learning opportunities. Let's be clear, ethnic studies do does not create division, rather it helps us recognize our collective histories and understand how different communities have contributed to our state and our nation. By offering the American Indian and Native Studies Innovative Course, we give students the choice to explore their education through meaningful engagement with American Indian
and Native history Native history and cultures. This elective course helps students understand issues and events from American Indian and Native perspectives, treating each Native nation with the same independence and sovereignty as a foreign nation, recognizing their legal right to maintain their distinct tribal identities. Through critical analysis, students develop an understanding of how past events affect the present and gain a broader context to address the triumphs and challenges of different tribal communities. This kind of learning doesn't just inform students, it transforms them into more engaged citizens.
As an ethnic studies graduate, I can speak personally about how ethnic studies has transformed my education. Growing growing up, I was most engaged in social studies courses. I loved learning about history, policy, and impact. When I took ethnic studies courses in college, it actually increased my level of engagement and has actually influenced me to be a better citizen. Through renewing this course, we can do that for every Texan, and every Texas student, and we can envision a future where we are all involved in our democracy. Thank you. Thomas Doherty. Good afternoon, board members, and thank you for the opportunity to speak.
My name is Tom Doherty. The last time I was here was to support my wife when she won the heroes for children award, but today I'm here to testify for the first time. I was born in Oklahoma, grew up in Texas, and now I'm raising my kids in Conroe ISD. Not long ago, my sons and I became citizens of the Cherokee Nation. The experience of digging into our family's story and reconnecting with our heritage has meant a lot to me. My entire life, I've known my great great grandfather was JB Milam, the principal chief of the Cherokee Nation who served throughout the nineteen twenties and nineteen
thirties. He helped lead during a big time of change and rebuilding. Despite having JB Milam, Sequoia, and many other significant Cherokee leaders in my ancestry, I grew up almost completely Of the rights and sovereignty of tribal nations. Consequently, for decades, I've understood my native heritage only in the third person without realizing that I am at the center of this incredible legacy I've inherited, and that's why I'm here today. Being Native American is not only a gift, but a responsibility. I want to better I want better for my boys and all Texas students who
elect to learn more about our country's deep indigenous history and native people. I'm asking you to support the renewal and inclusion of American Indian native studies into Texas public schools. Thanks for your time and what you do for our schools. Walter Doherty? Hello, board members. My name is Walter Doherty. I'm 10 years old and a student in Conroe ISD. I'm a proud American, a proud Texan, and a very proud Cherokee citizen. I'm here today to ask you to include and renew American Indian and Native American
studies course. A lot of times in school, we learn about other countries and people from long ago, like ancient Greece or the revolutionary war, but we don't learn much about Native Americans today. People talk about us like we're gone, but we're not. I'm right here. My brother and I are Cherokee kids growing up in Texas, and we want people to know our culture and history. The Native Amer the American Indian and Native American studies course is not just for native kids like me.
It's for all kids. My friends are from all different backgrounds, British, Indian, Venezuelan, Swiss, Mexican, and Vietnamese. And I love learning about other people. It makes me feel smarter and like I can be a better friend. More importantly, when I learn about Cherokee family when I learn about my Cherokee family, I feel proud. I feel like I can do anything. And who knows? Maybe one day, I could even be chief. Thank you. Thank you. Members, do we have questions for this panel? Member Francis? Ma'am, I'm sorry.
I I don't remember your name. But were you finished with your testimony? Yes. I have to leave a picture of If you will, if you could finish first. Thank you. And could you just remind me of your name, please? It's Samprathana Kundara with Asian Texans for Justice. Okay. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So renewing this course actually gives students the choice to learn about native people and their nations. Without a renewal, the American Indian and Native studies course risks sunsetting and closing off this option for young Texans. Every student and their families deserves a choice, to their education, and that is what ethnic studies provides.
It gives students the choice to explore, to learn, and to develop their critical thinking skills, that our democracy needs. Something that I'm very proud about is that Texas has paved the way for ethnic studies. And by renewing the American Indian and Native Studies course, we take the step, in towards this new Texas that we envision, one where every student has the opportunity to learn, grow, and feel bold in their belonging. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Members, any questions for this panel? Thank you for being here. You can call the next panel, please. Joseph Gaskill, Henry Doherty,
Taylor Trevino, Kenneth Romer. And call Nico Miller and Anne again. Orlando Lara. Okay. Joseph, you can go ahead and step up. Bonjour, all my relatives. My name is Joe Gaskill. I am a fifth year anthropology PhD graduate student at the University of Texas at Austin here. And during the academic year, I work primarily with first year and continuing college students in anthropology courses as both a teaching assistant and an instructor. I have firsthand experience working with students who often fail to have a basic understanding
of the interwoven history and continuing experience of native tribal nations and indigenous peoples in the state of Texas and The United States. Such ignorance really comes from a gap in Native American and indigenous studies in the educational opportunities of Texas public school students. Repairing this gap and addressing this ignorance could, and in my opinion should, be done through an optional American Indian slash native studies course. This course would provide far reaching benefits for our students,
as it helps to empower them to be well rounded citizens, workers, and thinkers through education like this. Understanding Native American and indigenous peoples and the continued cultural realities of those who still reside in Texas today benefits students to develop many critical skills. These include becoming culturally knowledgeable thinkers, collaborative and empathetic employers and workers who can communicate and connect across culturally with wide range of Texan, American, and global peoples, and becoming proud and compassionate neighbors to all Texan communities,
to understanding the whole picture of Texas's past and present. Students are our foundation of Texas's future. In supporting this course, we together can transform ignorance, and this ignorance into compassionate respect, connections and pride in the uniqueness of all Texans. Thank you. Henry Doherty? Hello, board members. My name is Henry Doherty. I'm 12 years old and a proud citizen of Cherokee Nation. The last time I was here, the State Board of Education gave my mom the heroes for children award. She gets a lot of awards because she is really good at speaking up when
it matters most. But today, it's my turn to speak up about something that's really important. I want to talk to you today about why native studies matters and why education has always been a powerful tool for native people, especially the Cherokee. A long time ago, my ancestors believed that learning was one of the best ways to protect our people. That's why we created schools, and Sequoia, my very great uncle, invented the Cherokee written language. That was all in the early eighteen hundreds before many other groups had access to to public education.
Education helped us survive. It gave us the right tools to speak for ourselves, to fight for our rights, and to preserve our history. Today, American Indian and native studies continues that work, and I ask you to include and renew the course. I'm here because I believe education still empowers Native Americans. It always has and it always will. Thank you. And again? Hello. My name is Anne Nguyen. I am an English teacher at Round Rock High School where I've taught for the past ten years. And these last two years, I've been so fortunate to pilot the only year long Asian American studies course in
Texas. And while I do not teach the American Indian native studies course, I'm here to strongly advocate for the renewal of it. Ethnic studies of any kind are essential to creating a more representative education for all students. In my class, whether it's AP Lit or AAS, I ground our learning in four principles. Chase curiosity, choose courage, carry compassion, cultivate community. These values encourage students to authentically learn as engaged members of society. These values come to life fully in an ethnic studies class where students fill in
the academic gaps within the history curriculum, conduct research using oral histories, academic databases, primary sources. They practice critical thinking and civil discourse around complex topics, and they deepen their understanding of themselves and their community around them. Research shows that these courses increase students' sense of belonging, academic engagement, and graduation rates. In my own classroom, I've witnessed students grow more curious, courageous, and committed to their communities. A student shared that our class was the first time she saw her family story reflected in school. It didn't just validate her identity.
It inspired her to interview her grandmother and create a short documentary about their migration. That's the power of these classes. Plus, these courses are electives. Students choose to enroll. So why delay a course students' desire, teachers are ready to teach, and communities have built with such care? What kind of message are we sending if we silence and remove histories that matter to our kids? Texas is beautiful. It's diverse, and our curriculum should reflect that. If Mexican and African American studies are already offered, why not native? Delaying this course discourages educators, disrespect native communities,
and deny students an essential opportunity. Please choose courage and compassion. Renew this course. Our students and state deserve the chance to center curiosity, compassion, and community. Thank you. Orlando Lara? Alright. I see my cut going. So hello, everyone. My name is Orlando Lara. I know you've received emails from me, so, you're familiar at least with my name. But I'm a client ISD parent, a client Oak graduate, and also a graduate student in anthropology. My whole field was built on native studies. But I wanna read to you what I'm handing out is a fact sheet,
and you can take a quick look at it. It gives you all the information you need on. Enrollment numbers, the level of support, the petition is beyond 2,500 signatures as of today. I'm sure you've been getting emails. I think 600 people have sent emails, so we're close to about 8,000 individual emails. Five tribal nations have now endorsed the course. 94 organizations are endorsing it. So the community support is there. What I wanna focus on, because of the current context, I just wanna raise and this isn't in your packet, but I think someone coming up next will show it to you.
It's the letter from the Department of Education which states, it is the position of the Department that American Indian, Alaska Native, and Native Hawaiian history is not classified as diversity, equity, and inclusion or critical race theory, and the Department will not treat Native history as DEI or CRT. The United States has a unique political legal relationship with federally recognized Indian tribes as set forth in the Constitution of The United States treaties, executive orders, and court decisions. And I just wanna kind of explain the legal rationale behind that. The basic under reasoning behind this is that tribal identity is not the same thing
as race or ethnicity. So, tribal identity is its own legal category. Therefore, it doesn't fall under DEI categories. And, in addition, because the course actually is intended to help achievement gaps, there's no current or new legislation at the state or federal level that prevents you from voting yes. So please bring you today. Members, we have questions for this panel. Yes, sir. Member Hall. My question is for mister Latta. Mister Latta, is this, considered an ethnic studies course? Yes. It is an ethnic studies course. So you said it's all based on tribal identity?
So if it's all if it's only based on tribal identity, it has nothing to do with ethnicity at all, and, of course, you wouldn't fall into the the DEI category, at all, then why would it be called ethnic studies? Well, it's according to the Department of, Education. So you're saying they're wrong they're wrong about that? No. No. No. Ethnic studies is a field. It's a field of study. And when when it was originally developed, it was developed around four, ethnic studies fields. I think what the point I'm making is when you're talking so there's a difference between ethnic studies and the actual category of ethnicity and race.
And so ethnic studies, for example, Asian American studies is built around different nationalities. Mexican American studies is built around more of an ethnicity. It's all of the identities are very complex. Right? So but tribal identity is a very particular legal and political category that can't be equated with race and ethnicity. It doesn't mean that in the popular discourse, they're not equated. And even within the field, there's, you know, these different categories can be discussed in relationship to each other.
But in terms of the kind of understanding of DEI that folks are concerned about, which I think folks think of it as like reverse discrimination, I think this course is creating opportunity. There's, for example, the American Indian programs. Right? There's federal funding for American Indian programs that are targeted for American Indian students. And so those are protected. Yeah. I don't think people look at it as reverse discrimination or at least I wouldn't. I think some people have concerns because including myself, because it's narrowly focusing history through the lens of race and ethnicity,
which is by definition critical race theory. So I don't think it's reverse discrimination, but I was just trying to understand where you're coming from. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. Through the chair. Member Brooks and then member Revels. I I did wanna just talk to one of the testifiers. Is it, Henry Doletree? Can you bring your microphone closer, member? Sure. Henry, can you come up? I thank you for coming today with your brother and your father. From your perspective as a Cherokee, I want you to tell me how important it is to see the contributions of your people in the American history story.
Well, I mean, it's I'm sorry. Could you ask that question again? Sure. So what is the importance of seeing your people in the fabric of the American story? Well, I mean, it's important because, like, you can see, like, how, like, they they've contributed to this, to the to, like, Texas and, like, how they've, like, helped us become who we are, stuff like that. But, like, if we don't if if there's not, like, enough, like, tribal, like, studies being happening,
then, like, it could be, like, somewhat, like if it's not hot for long enough, they could be somewhat, like, forgotten or, like, talked about as if they, like, somewhat never existed. Mhmm. So it's important that we keep your culture alive. Yes. Thank you. Member Revels? Yeah. It's a question for mister Lara. Hi, Mr. Lara. The determination from the U. S. Department of Education that, that tribal studies is not DEI, is that from the current administration or from a previous administration? That's the current. That that came out April 25,
so just after our your last. So that's the Trump administration's US Department of Education? The Trump administration. Thank you. Doctor. Bometra. Could I ask a question of mister Lara, please? It seems to me that, this is high time because I first took my first, courses in Native American history and literature and religions back in, 1968 in Indiana. And at that time, I was thinking, why didn't we learn about this in high school? And so I wanna ask you the question, how do you feel about the fact that people are still not learning about that
in in school here in Texas? Well, I'm still shocked because sometimes I I see the emails that people send in, and I'll still see emails from, a teacher I saw recently where, he said that teaching today, students will come to him and say, native are native Americans still around? Even though there's new standards and it's supposed to be covered, and I think other testifiers will be able to speak to this, that even it's so sparse right now that, either teachers have to go through it very quickly or or students are just not
getting it. So there's still a lot of students today that think Native Americans are not around anymore. So it's just it's it's shocking, I even for me. Yeah. Thank you. Member Pickering. Yes, sir. I believe what you're referring to from the US Department of Education was a request from the National Indian Education Association, where they asked for clarification on the from the US Department of Education on whether teaching Native American history would fell under DEI or CRT, which their response was it does not. Right. Right?
I mean, we teach Native American history throughout Texas history, American history already in Artiques. Right. But the the US Department of Education was not talking specifically about this course. They were talking about they never evaluated this course or looked at this course. They were talking in general. The letter from The United, from the Indian Education Association was very kinda general and broad. They weren't asking about specific standards or specific instruction materials. They were just saying, would it violate CRT or DEI,
the president's executive order. Correct? That's correct. And they they speak to native history and also but they also point out the unique legal and political relationship Yes, sir. With between tribes and, and federal government. Oh, Oh, yes. So just with Texas history, the tribes I mean, you can't have Texas history without Native American history. The Comanches were the government of Texas forever Right. For many years. And we just had a beautiful presentation by the second chief of the Alabama Coushatta, who talked about, how their tribe actually helped San Houston, during the,
the Mexican American war, and that's part of the reason that there's a relationship there. So, there's three federally recognized tribes. They're now mentioned in these texts as well. So, yes, it's very much part of and then there's tribes that were here, but moved to other places like, Choctaw as well. Yes, sir. I completely agree with you with that. I think Andrew Jackson, War of eighteen, or the battle of New Orleans would agree too, because the Choctaw Indians taught his army how to how to do, war, how to battle in the swamps. They didn't know how to fight the British in the swamps. So even the battle of New Orleans was a great victory for the Choctaw Nation,
helping America defeat the British. So Right. I hope we can talk more. And native his native history, native knowledge and culture, it's 2,000 years old. DICRT is 40 years old. So it did just fine for almost 2,000 years Yes. Without those concepts. Okay. Any further questions for this panel? Okay. We have, two additional testifiers signed up. I plan to take that testifier and push pause for a second. You can go. Thank you, Mr. Lara. So how did we get here today to put this on
the Committee of the Full Board? So it was initially on the Committee on Instruction. I had a lot of interest from members of the Full Board. So we were obviously if it went to the Committee on Instruction today, it would come to the Full Board tomorrow, and we would have a broader discussion. So I felt it was more appropriate to go ahead, let everyone hear the public testimony as the full board and have this discussion on Thursday as the Committee of the Full Board. So that's why we moved it. It is obviously a somewhat complicated issue or could be depending on your interpretation. And I want to make sure that we're making the proper decision with respect to
the law. So I have asked the attorney general's office to come, speak to us. So they are coming up next. And so if you can, help me welcome Will Wasdorf. He's going to, tell us, give us the legal, background that we need here, especially since we are just coming out of a session where there was some laws that may or may not apply to this. We'll find out. Thank you, mister chairman. I apologize that I've not been able to be here the entire day to listen to the testimony, but, it looks like you've already touched,
on it a little bit. You know, my my job here today is not to tell you, whether any particular curriculum does or does not, violate, the laws. That that job is is for yourselves and the court, But I did want to, inform you about the recent changes in the law that I believe have all been implemented since this curriculum was last approved. And I do believe that you need to take these laws into account
as you make your decisions on these courses. You know, so this dates back to the legislative session in 2021. House Bill 3,979 was adopted. And dealing with DEI and CRT issues. And that bill was signed into law, but the governor decided that that bill did not go far enough. And so during, I believe it was the second called session of the eighty seventh legislature, the governor asked the legislature to consider a stronger law
that became Senate Bill three, and was likewise signed into law. Most recently, we've had several executive orders, executive order GA 55 from governor Abbott, and the executive orders that it sounded like we were just discussing from President Trump, that also prohibit, DEI and CRT type, activities, in governments or in federally funded programs. Very most recently in the last legislative session and I believe just signed this past
week, was Senate Bill 12, which, did deal with DEI issues. And I, in my opinion, probably contains the, statement of law that goes the farthest, in terms of prohibiting, certain activities. And as I read the law, it basically prohibits reference to race, in policies or programs or activities conducted by school districts unless, that is required by state or federal law. And so then I think you would look back to, the statutes and what is required for,
the social studies curriculum, to determine whether it is required or not. We had a when I testified this morning, we had a question regarding Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech, and whether it would be prohibited to teach, that subject under the standard. And the answer is no because the state statutes expressly require, the teaching of Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech. And so I I would encourage the board to, look closely at the laws and evaluate these courses,
in in the context of those laws. One of the, aspects that, you know, I think can be kind of the the trickiest part is how it it how race is represented. Obviously, you know, history is history. But, how that history is represented, especially in the context of today, I believe that's when you can get caught up in some of these issues. You know, for example, I mean, just saying that, you know, white society, you know, historically oppressed some marginalized group,
I think would probably go a little too far in terms of the statutes. I mean, undoubtedly, those events happened. Those people, you know, may have, you know, oppressed a marginalized society, but just generalizing that into, you know, white society did this or white society did that, I think that's where you come into the problems that, these laws would prohibit that type of instruction. Doctor. Ellis? So we currently have African American studies and Mexican American studies.
Are we violating the law by having those courses? Like I said, you know, I am not here to speak on a particular study, a course of study. And whether it does or does not violate the law, just generally speaking, would, you know, an African American studies or a Mexican American studies course violate the law? I don't believe so. It would depend on the context of the specific instruction given during that course. I'm understanding you saying that it's not just having the course. Whether we have this course we're looking at today,
it's not whether it's the course, it's the content inside of it. Correct. Okay. You also commented about that Martin Luther King is okay to be taught because there's state law that references that. Are you talking to our current TEKS as the reference that says that we're gonna teach Martin Luther King or is that somewhere else that's state law? I am specifically referencing, I believe it's Chapter 28 of the Texas Education Code. That mentions. Okay. Okay. And that was under the Informed Patriotism. Okay. Member Charles. Good afternoon.
Could you give us a little bit more clarity on what you mean by DEI or CRT type activities? You know, standing here right now, it's it's difficult for me to do that. I'm sorry. I rushed over here. I don't have my materials with me. But but those activities are defined Well, I know s v three defines a few, but is that all encompassing, or are there any others that could be deemed a DEI or CRT type activity? I I think you would have to look at SB three. SB 12 that I just mentioned was passed this past legislative session as well as
the governor's executive orders. Okay. And in terms of the American Indian and Native American studies course, and from your legal opinion, do you think that violates s b three or s b 12? Because I just heard from a lot of the testifiers talk about tribal nations and tribes, which is a little bit different from race and ethnicity. So do you think if we were to give a vote to continue this course, would it we'd be running a file to any of those two senate bills that were passed? As I said, I'm not here to pass judgment on any particular course of instruction.
You know, I I do not believe that having a Native American studies course would inherently, just from that title, violate, any of the laws. It would depend on the specific instruction contained in the course. So since you're our lawyer in this I guess, in this conversation, would you give us the advice to go through all of the course material? Like, how should we move forward so that we're not violating the law? I I I believe it would be appropriate to go through the course material and evaluate that. I,
you know, according to the material that I reviewed, it appears that, TEA staff has already done a significant amount of that work. And it looks like they were, looking at the appropriate, areas. I am not sure that they considered, Senate Bill 12, which I said was just adopted. That may have been, left out of the review that they did. And so I would encourage you to take a look at that closely. Thank you. Good, Chair. Member Rivels. Hi. I think I asked a version of this question earlier today. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. So Senate Bill 12 says that we cannot
that the school district cannot, teach anything related to DEI unless it is legally part of the state curriculum. It's legally prescribed by the state as something that should be taught to children, correct? I can't go quite that far. I like to stick to the language of the statute. The statute says, that school districts, in establishing, policies or programs or activities, along with a couple other laundry list of of things, cannot reference race unless it is required by state or federal law.
So this body as body that sets curriculum, if we create a course, wouldn't that then become an, an exception then to s b 12? I am honestly not sure of that. That I mean, that is a matter of some detailed legal interpretation that, I am not prepared to testify to today. Because it seems that we set the standards for curriculum here. So that would mean state. That would be the law of the state for semi curriculum. And and I do believe that that is an argument that could be made.
Thank you. Sir? Member Heckman. It's great to have another will in the room, so welcome. I'm also an attorney. It sounds like you're an attorney, but you're not our attorney. I would say that is correct at this moment. Okay. So you're giving us a general overview of the law, but not applying the law specifically to our facts. Correct. So we need to ask our legal or those specific questions when we get there. Yes. One of the challenges as we, explored a little bit yesterday is that we don't have legal counsel, which is why I called the attorney general.
I mean, there are cases where I'm very grateful for them coming, and they help us out. But there are times that they are TEA's attorney. We don't have an official attorney. Right? So, yes, we can ask them if there's some, like, if if we had to have attorney, it would be the attorney general's office. Yeah. So I have some specific questions. I'll just throw them out there. And then some of my colleagues have already hinted. Is Native American a race, color, or ethnicity under SB 12? I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Okay. So that's and I would say our African American,
Mexican American may be in big trouble if there's not a state or federal law requiring it. But that's not on the table today. But I the other one is, yeah, thinking thinking through kind of kind of that that first issue of the Native American and then other things we've already done. Do you know when SB 12 is effective? 09/01/2025. Okay. So then we just general I'd say general legal application, we'd have a reasonable time to fix our house after September 1?
I would assume so. Okay. Doctor. McNamara? It's it's my understanding that the, Native American groups actually originally were nations. So it doesn't it's not as if every single, Native American group is of the same type. I mean, someone who is a Cherokee would not say that they were of the same group as an Iroquois or some these were these were, within their cultural existence, national groups.
I mean, insofar as they, they could be categorized. I mean, it's like saying, you know, I'm Italian American because my parents came from Italy. You don't go, oh, well, you're gonna have to go to jail for saying that. Member Brooks. Thank you. Thank you for being here. This is just a statement for, our board members here. Can we can we just do questions real quick? Because he's got to go to another matter. So I want to see if anybody else has questions for him. I'm happy to come back to you as the first one after that, after we take the testimony, if that's okay with you. Are there any further questions? Doctor. Ellis?
I hadn't looked at SB12 before. I was really familiar with Senate Bill three and so forth, but I'm looking through this. If you can help me how this applies to us in Section 11.005, which is prohibitions on DEI. One is about hiring. That wouldn't be what we're doing here. Number two is about promoting differential treatment. I don't think we're promoting treatment. I think three is developing or implementing policies, procedures, trainings, activities or programs. Would our curriculum standards be a training or a program?
You know, I don't know if they would fall under that or not. Those, terms are not defined, under the statute. I think it would be a matter of interpretation for the court. And that's why I am here today, you know, in encouraging you all to look, at that and consider that as a possibility. Member Pickering? Yes. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for coming today. When I hear determined by the court, my brain automatically goes to lawsuit. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And, personally, I'm not interested in breaking state law. I'm not interested in in, us entering into a lawsuit. So what would be the mechanism
of having your office since the attorney general is our attorney, the State Board of Education's attorney, what would be the mechanism for y'all reviewing this course to tell us if it's legal or not? You could I guess there would theoretically be two ways. I'm not sure how it would work. That would either be a request for an attorney general's opinion, or you would send in a request for representation, and and that would be evaluated in the ordinary course to decide whether that is the type of matter that we would undertake. Okay.
Thank you. Member Hegman. I have the same question as Doctor. Ellis. Is a class a policy, procedure, training, activity, or program? Sounds like we don't know. Doctor Clark. Thank you. Are there any carve outs in senate bill 12 that can relate to race in closing the achievement gaps for students? I am not advised. Any further questions? Question? Oh, I have a question. Member Hickman. Let's talk about a lawsuit. Who would sue us? Theoretically, it would be a parent on behalf of a child who,
was in the course, I Well, it's an elective. So it's someone who signed up for the course and is then saying it's illegal? I mean, theoretically, yes. I mean, I guess it could be So to be damaged. Schools. I mean, there are obviously standing, requirements for someone to be able to sue. Put me a little bit on the spot, but I I think that would be the most likely. So you'd have to prove damage, and the damage would be being exposed to this illegal material. The only way you're damaged is by being in the class, which is an elective. Is that fair? I I don't know that that would be the only way,
but, yes, that What other way would someone be a plaintiff? You know, I I I can't stand up here and speculate on every possibility for how, a lawsuit would come about, but I I would suspect that that would be the most likely way that a lawsuit would come about. Is there damages or is there an injunction? Here, I I'm actually not sure. I I do I do believe that there would be injunctive relief. I'm not sure if it, provides for damages or not. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I have one last question. Member Hall? He's got to go in like one minute.
So let's make a question. I'll make it very brief. And just kind of a follow-up on what member Hickman just asked you. Isn't there a scenario in which you could sign up for an elective course, but you didn't know that the course contained illegal material until you got in the course and then you have cost for damage? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Member Francis, quickly. Real quickly. Thank you. I was gonna ask that too. But could the attorney general's office sue the state board of education if we're breaking state law? I am not positive on the answer to that question. Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming back over. Hope we get you to your meeting. Thank you, sir. Have a good day. Okay. We have two more testifier. Okay. We have three more testifiers and two late registrants. I plan to take all of them. There's no objection. Seeing none, let's just take all five now, please. Ned Aguero, Eric Castillo, Maria Onda, Ryan Parra, and Don Frasier. Lynnette? Hello. I am Lynette Aguero, the social studies coordinator for Grand Prairie ISD. Thank you, Chairman Kinsey and the rest of the board for this opportunity. I respectfully urge you to immediately renew the innovative course,
ethnic studies, American Indian native studies as an elective social studies course so that other districts may start planning to offer it. This course was written by American Indian native community members, parents, educators, and college and university professors, all who are Texans. It has under undergone rigorous review through the TEA three times, once through work group e draft for text in 2022, and twice as an innovative course for initial approval and renewal. We ask that you renew this course without delay.
In the letter that, mister Laura referenced stated 04/25/2025, The US Department Of Education recognized this need for native studies courses and declared them not to be DEI or CRT. This letter is attached. We have worked hard on this latest innovative course renewal version to adjust wording of the standard so that it reads with more clarity and so that you do not have to fear its misinterpretation as DEI or CRT. The standards are fact based learning statements designed to better understand our native communities.
Under TEC 28,002 f, the SBOE has statutory authority to approve innovative courses. The course states the school district may offer courses for local credit. The State Board of Education shall be flexible in approving a course. Also, 19 TAC 74.27 b one implies that the SVOE is seeking a comprehensive native studies course, and we have provided this. We respectfully ask the board to demonstrate that flexibility by renewing this course for the next five years.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions regarding the course standards. We are committed to working with you to get this course renewed. Thank you. Eric Castillo? Maria Unda. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Doctor. Maria del Carmen Unda. I am a education scholar, and I'm a postdoctoral fellow at the University of Texas. I am a proud product of public education, and I graduated from UCLA in Chicano Chicano studies. And then I recently earned my PhD at the University of Texas at Austin. And throughout my academic journey, ethnic studies is a reason why I was able to get my PhD.
It gave me the tools to understand my family's history, reconnect with my cultural memory, and develop a lifelong commitment to civic responsibility. I know we just had, one of the lawyers come out and talk about senate bill 12. As an education policy scholar, I was in the room at the Texas legislature when senate bill 12 was being crafted, and we did a lot of negotiations back and forth. But first and foremost, before I get into that, I wanna point out that there is a difference between race and ethnicity. I know those terms can be confusing. And so and I taught this, and I was remembering because I, taught this,
I was a professor at Cal State Los Angeles, California State University Los Angeles. And then I recently came back, and this is something that I recently taught my students. So race is a social construct, and it you it is used to group people physically, whereas ethnicity is belonging to a population or a subgroup, but that is based on culture. So there is a clear difference between race and and ethnicity. I would also like to point out that senate bill bill 12, yes, it references race, but it does not reference ethnicity. There's also an achievement, caveat,
on page six. And that one reads, quote, unquote, a policy, practice, procedure, program, or activity intended to enhance students' academic achievement or postgraduate outcomes that is designed and implemented without regard to race, sex, color, ethnic Your time is up. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Brian Parra. Good afternoon, chairman McKinsey and board. I thank you for the opportunity for allowing me to be here today. My name is Brian Parr, and I have the honor and privilege of serving as a school board trustee for Grand Prairie ISD. I'm also an eleven eleven year educator having taught middle school social studies,
three years as a Texas history teacher, and two years as a US history teacher. I'm here on my individual capacity to express support for the course renewal for Native American and indigenous people studies. During my time as a Texas history teacher, we covered the following standards, identify major areas to include natural Texas and its people. Comp two a, compare cultures of American Indian groups prior to colonization, six 7.6 a. Identify significant individuals events, including effects of western expansion. Due to time constraints and pacing, conversations and activities were mere surface level.
Because it is only discussed as something of the past, it builds this misconception that Native Americans no longer exist. Texas has one of the largest Native American populations in the country, and people still to this day do not believe they exist. I want to share with you words directly from Grand Prairie ISD students, based on a a service that were conducted post the course and their and the impact that it had on them. It impacted my way of thinking about people. This class has made me more aware of the people around me rather than myself, but this class makes me want to learn about others and their cultures.
It impacted me by seeing difference in other cultures, and that's not always to believe that they are something bad, and that's no disrespect to anybody's other culture. I know many people that are native American in this class have shown me more ways to respect. Help me by not being afraid of who I am as a native American. Thank you. Doctor Donald Frasier. Mister chairman, members of the board, thank you for the chance to speak to you today. I'd like to offer a few thoughts on the renewal of the, course on Native Americans in our Nashville story. This is a real opportunity,
an opportunity to bring in modern scholarship and give students a fuller, clearer picture of the indigenous experience. One that's balanced, honest, and forward looking. We can build a course that prepares students for the future. Or we can fall back on outdated ideas and political agendas. Let's start with clarity. We should avoid buzzwords and vague language, like calling native people citizens of the nation when members is often more accurate. We should also be careful about trendy academic ideas,
things like the Comanche Empire or overstatements about indigenous influences that are still being debated among scholars. That said, Native history is rich, complex, and worth telling in full. Let's show how Native peoples moved, traded, adapted, and helped shape the land. Let's talk about intermarriage, cultural blending, economic contributions, and how those stories help explain the world we live in today. I'd also recommend including NAGPRA, the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act,
so that students understand how the law protects Native heritage today. As someone of Cherokee ancestry, I'm proud of this history. But I believe we honor it best by telling it truthfully, not by exaggerating it or shrinking it down to victimhood. The Native story is part of the American story. And like any people, it includes heroes and villains, struggle and strength. Let's make this corps something we can all be proud of. Thank you. Members, we have questions for this panel. Doctor. Ellis,
Doctor. Clark, Francis, Childs, everybody's got a question. Start with Doctor. Ellis. Doctor. Fraser, ma'am, can you still have your call? Sorry to get your name. Okay. Mr. Fraser, you've been around a little bit before, and you watched how we did the African American Studies and Mexican American Studies. It started as an innovative course. We made a TEEX based based course. And on the innovative courses, the course is brought to us. And if we do a TEEX based course, then it's a course that this Board has the ability to, like you say,
tell the story that's appropriate. Are you in favor of the Board going through the process of developing a TEEX based, Native American Studies course? I am. I think we have an opportunity here to get it right. So let's go ahead and take a look at it and review it, especially in light of everything we just heard from the Attorney General's office. I mean, we've got an opportunity here, so let's avail ourselves to the opportunity. Okay. Thank you. Ma'am, you were speaking a little bit about Senate Bill 12, and you ran out of time. I was curious on your assessment or your understanding of Senate Bill 12 and how
it would relate specifically to this course. Can you finish that? Thank you so much for allowing me to, finish my thought. Yeah. So we we did fight very, hard for the academic achievement carve out, which is on page six. And basically, that states, you know, if a if a program or initiative enhances academic student academic achievement, then, that is basically allowed. There's also another carve out for national holiday. So, it cannot limit or prohibit the, state or federal government holidays, and that's also on page six.
And then also on page six, it says that, basically, if TA has adopted a ruling, then that is allowed. Okay. I see that. Thank you. Thank you. Doctor Clark? Thank you. Doctor Undus, can you speak to the research with the native studies program that's happening here at UT Austin? Yes. And in particular, when you said that I was thinking about this, recent I was in a dissertation committee by doctor Anthony Martinez, And basically, he looked at a ethnic studies program for k through 12 students here in the Austin Independent School District. I'll send you guys a copy once it's published.
It should be published in any day now. And he did a quantitative study, and he looked at the, a group of fourth grade, Austin Independent School district students versus fifth grade. And this is a Saturday school program. And basically, the kids that participated in in in ethnic studies indigenous studies program, they saw an increase in standardized test scores and GPA requirement GPA, scores. And so, the research has shown again and again that ethnic studies and indigenous studies increases student academic achievements and graduation outcomes.
And, I'm more than happy to send you, that research. I know in in the room, Orlando Lara, professor Orlando Lara does a lot of that research as well, as as do several others. Yeah. Thank you. Mhmm. And, Ravell? In in that program that you cited, were all participants members of that specific ethnic or racial group that that, was being targeted, or were there multiple members, you know, of different ethnicities, backgrounds, and race? It was different ethnicities, backgrounds, socioeconomic status. It was, as long as the students were part of the Austin Independent School District,
as long as they were part of the AISD, they were all all AISD students, and some of them participated in this program while others did not. And so, we were really, doctor Anthony Martinez did that dissertation. And we were, not surprised because the research has already shown that indigenous studies does prove to have positive academic outcomes generally. Yeah. Of of that person being a member of that? Yes. Yeah. Mhmm. Thank you so much for that. Thank you, chairman. Sir, may I ask you a question? Yes, sir. Sir, I wondered, based on your testimony, if you would let us know,
if the the current course that we have in front of us for consideration, does it satisfy your concerns at this point? It I think it's it's in a position to be improved and updated and modernized. And so as long as we're in a sort of liminal point where we can take an opportunity to kind of back up, take another run at it, Let's make sure that we have a course that can get past all the different sniffers that are gonna sniff on you. That's right. That's right.
And I'm I'm very interested in, hearing specifically what you have if you've if if you've had a chance to go through it. I know that you probably didn't have a chance to specifically state those different amendments. I like you, one, everything to to, you know, pass those sniffers. Sure. And, definitely, I think the, this course is the story is worth telling for sure. I don't think any member of this board would say otherwise, but we wanna tell the right story. Correct. So thank you. So I would give you a couple concrete examples.
And this may not be the latest, greatest iteration of the course. It's just one that I saw a while back. But there is the the desire to recognize native sovereignty, for instance, and agency is extraordinarily important. However, it doesn't need to be exaggerated. And by that I mean, for instance, the Comanche empire. The Comanche empire was spun up recently, relatively recently in history land. I mean, last twenty years, that's new scholarship. So that was spun up and now we're in a trend where that's being reexamined.
You know, what exactly is an empire? Were the Comanches imperial? What exactly is the state of the art on this thinking now? And so that's an example. Another one, the, Haudenosaunee Confederacy, the Iroquois, and its influence on the original design of American democracy and stuff has come under recent scrutiny. And by recent, I mean last thirty, forty years, where they're saying that that may have been overstated. There's other examples, you know, snow goggles by the Inuit, inform STEM education,
things like that. That, hey, we don't have to oversell it. You know, this thing sells itself. So let's go in there and take a good look at it and make sure that we're actually integrating this Native story into the American story, into the Texas story, into our story. Because ultimately, it is our story. It's your story as much as mine. I mean, I've got the DNA, Pearl, that gets me to the Cherokee part. But your experience you're from Corpus Christi. Is that correct? That's correct, sir. Yeah. So your experience in Corpus Christi,
my experience in Kerrville is all informed by the presence of the indigenous peoples of this continent all the way to the present day. It's interesting in other testimony, I've heard the, idea that, you know, these people have disappeared. They would disappear the kid with rights, you know, standing right here. But what has disappeared oftentimes is how thoroughly, what a thorough debt the national story owes to that indigenous story as well. And I think that we've got an opportunity here. We might as well run right through the hole that we're looking at because of
all the recent legislation. As long as we're thinking about it, let's think about it. That's right. And if you could just give staff, your the paper I see you looking at it, if that's fine, and and they'll distribute it to myself and committee members, I'd appreciate that. Thank you, sir. Yeah. It was it came in at eight minutes. And so I said, no. I'd better whittle that down to two. So thank you. Member chops. My question, I guess both of you can answer, professor Unga and you. Yeah. Can you give me a little bit more education on the difference between tribes, tribal nation, and where they fall into the conversation of race and ethnicity?
Yeah. That's, do you wanna go first? You've got the fresh PhD in this. Mine's a little dusty compared to yours. I'll let you go first. I'm sorry. What was your question again? Where do tribes and tribal nations fall into the context of race and ethnicity? I would argue that they it's an ethnicity. A race is a pseudo colonialist logic, that has, I would argue, utterly divided humans, but that's not acknowledging, the history of the genocide of indigenous people and the fact that The United States was built off the backs of slaves and black people here in The United States.
I think we do need to honor and acknowledge those important histories, and talk about them talk about them honestly, because that has deep impacts to today's society, to the way we education outcomes. There's deep impacts in terms of socioeconomic class. But this call let's call everyone in, and let's have a a real conversation about it. And that's the point of these ethnic studies classes, having those difficult, hard to hard conversations about how how we move forward together. Right. So, that's a pretty nice response.
The thing that I find challenging about teaching the story of the indigenous peoples, for starters, is other people are telling their stories. But if you end up really diving into how they saw themselves, You know, you could be adopted into a particular, tribal group, just because you were thrown in the same direction. Same way you become a Texan. You know, you may have been born in some other country, but if you throw in on Texas, guess what you are? You're a Texan. So that's certainly the case with Cherokees. I mean, Sam Houston's got a story passed with the Cherokees.
So they you are a Cherokee if you decided you said you were a Cherokee. That's how do you identify. Alright. So one of the things that will end up become be kind of an interesting tale to kick around in a classroom like that is, well, two things that that come to mind. One is when you ask the Comanche, you know, who who are you? Which means in the Comanche language, I'm the people. Well, what's that mean if you're not Numanah? Are you subhuman? You know, what do you do with instances where you have indigenous peoples that are clearly putting
sort of ethnic and perhaps even racial barriers? A lot of times the indigenous people are just seen as sort of, something that is the punching bag when in many cases they were the punchers and we need to understand that that's part of the story. Alright. So there's that sort of component to it. Well, we'll just leave it with that. I mean, it's how how do you identify? And we have federally recognized nations today,
and I kinda think that's borderline racist. And the reason I say that is I've got a number to prove my ethnicity. And I think that that's just kinda odd. My dad told me that that's how come I had a deep belly button because that's where they stamped my number. And I think that that's something that you're gonna have to deal with honestly in a conversation in a class like this. And that's why I'm saying we have an opportunity to kinda break it and rebuild it because right now it's really setting up an either or. I think we can talk about both and.
So Thank you. Member Pickering. Thank you, mister chairman. This question is for mister Frazier. Sure. Hi. Welcome. Thank you. So I agree with you. I think that we do have a great opportunity here to really show the richness of Native American history with our Texas and US history. To me, this this course is, so kinda one-sided and so shallow. It doesn't do our history justice when I read through it. But, you know, we just celebrated Juneteenth. Right? And the treaty of 1866 between the Chickasaw and the Choctaw and The United States
Government, that happened, what, four days, five days after Juneteenth because the armies came, Lincoln's armies came, the union armies came and said you can't have slaves anymore, and the the Chickasaw and Choctaw had to give up their slaves in Texas Yeah. Which they refused to do. So America agreed to buy them in 1866 since the treaty of 1866. So, I mean, we're just we're missing so much history relation to Juneteenth, even the Guadalupe Hidalgo Treaty, right? Article 11. You bet. Yeah. How do you even teach Texas history? And, you know, the Comanche, they were, murdering thousands of Mexicans.
They put on. Your people. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't there's so much rich history here. So, I agree with you. I I think this isn't the course, but I think there's a path forward for us to teach Native American history in a very rich, robust way. And, you know, by the way, my husband is a citizen of Choctaw Nation. My son, who's over here, is a citizen of Choctaw Nation. So I will disagree with you a little bit on citizenship because their card does say citizen. Sure. I think that's modern construct, though. I think that, you know, my card my Cherokee card says citizen. But if you go back in the narrative arc of the Cherokee people,
you know, what are you a citizen of? You know, you're actually throwing in with a clan group and and a larger tribal group, and citizenship is kind of a European construct that was then enforced on. Right. And so that's actually part of what I would put in a new court. Which is interesting because the congressional hearing on the freedmen. Right? Yeah. You had Maxine Waters, congresswoman Maxine Waters come out and say she was very upset. She was asking for the federal government to withhold the Choctaw Nation's funding just, what, two, three years ago because they still will not recognize the descendants of their slaves.
They still will not recognize freedmen as citizens. So Choctaw as well? No, sir. So I thought that was interesting that the Choctaw Nation's still refusing to recognize, the descendants of their slaves. I'd like to point out that the Cherokees do. So Oh. So I don't I just think we have an opportunity to to present a very robust teaching. Yeah. Member Hall. Thank you for your testimony, sir. I have some questions for you as well. And you've talked a lot about the nuances. And, I mean, to me, looking at this course, it is way over generalized because there are a ton of nuances between different,
you know, groups and tribes and different periods in history. And one of the areas that definitely overgeneralized, apart from the fact that, what's in the course, it talks about land acknowledgments, which just kinda props up the fallacy that, you know, we're all on stolen land, things like that. But it's also, like, very overly generalized. And I wanted to get your opinion on the concept of land acknowledgments, in general and and, like, kind of the nuances with, you know, we're giving the land acknowledgement to to one group when maybe there were several groups who claimed that territory over the periods of history?
Like, how do you teach that and how do you see that as it's in the course? That's the thing is when you're talking about something as broad as, teaching the story of the indigenous peoples, you gotta stick a pen in the date on what you're talking about. You know, these people migrated. These various bands came from different places. They occupied different regions at different times. So you're right. If you're gonna do a land acknowledgement, I think you need to insert a date on what you're acknowledging. I'm acknowledging that this was, you know, tribe x land on this time and tribe y's on this time.
See the point, there's no way to ultimately get to the end of that. And when you do I've been in several meetings where land acknowledgements are done, and they're usually done by very well intentioned people. But I think it's more of a signaling exercise than asking people of my, you know, heritage or the other native heritage, you know, well, do you need to be acknowledged? And I'm going, I don't know. I had a great conversation, with, Comanche one time. And he, we talked about some of these things.
And he said, look. You know? We ran the place for a while, and then we just got beat. So what do you do with that? You know? And I well, I'm sorry. I beat you. You know? I I'm just not real sure. Well, I appreciate that. And I mean, that's just an example of one thing in this course that is definitely CRT and based on fallacy. And so, of course, it's got some real problems and I appreciate your perspective on that. Yeah. And the one thing that I would point out too is we've I've heard the word genocide ticked around in terms of the indigenous peoples. And I think that term is overused.
I think there's been an assault on the English language over the last forty years. And in the old days when you said genocide, you understood that we're talking about Ukrainian, you're talking about Armenian, you're talking about Jewish. And that tells about the industrial scale genocide and that's what you're kind of prepped to believe. When you talk about genocide of the native peoples, I'm not sure that bears scrutiny all the way through all those different proofs. But it's easy to toss that out. But it's also inflammatory. So why use it? You know, you can talk about the great die off and the plagues that were introduced by
Europeans without having to get into, language that is carrying unnecessary baggage. Thank you. You bet. Okay. I'm gonna take a question from member Perez Diaz. She hasn't asked anything yet. I'll come to you after that, doctor Korn. Apologies. Can you all hear me? Yes. Okay. Fantastic. Thank you, member thank you, chairman. So this question is for, I believe the gentleman's name is, mister Fraser. So apologies if I missed it. I need I had a question regarding your, your professional background. What what is what is your professional background?
Oh, Oh, great. I'm glad you asked me, that question because it gives you an gives me an opportunity to talk about it. I'm actually the director of the Texas Center at Schreiner University, and we're engaged in a very aggressive program of telling the Texas story in all of its full nuance. One of the things we're rolling out this summer, in fact, is a two fifty video series that'll tell the entire story of Texas from the beginning of time to present. And it includes strands of everything you've heard in this room today. So that's what I do, do professionally.
Before that, five years, I've been doing the we stood up the Texas Center over the last five years. Before that, I was classroom professor up in, Abilene and taught courses on Mexican history, Native American history, Old South history, Texas history. You know, you're a small liberal arts school. You kinda have to teach it all. Okay. Understood. I appreciate, appreciate the the background. So, you know, as I was listening to you talk, it sounds like you you know, one of your, hesitations moving forward is regarding the,
whether or not this this course appears to be robust enough, for the students. I I, I appreciate that. I also feel like, as we look at our our social studies, standards, just generally, right, is core content. The same argue argument can be made. And and you talked about integrating those histories within our standards. And so it it almost sounds like, with that argument, you wouldn't be comfortable then even supporting, you know, us approving social studies standards, that aren't, as robust as we hope them to be.
And so I think what I'm trying to ask then is, are you saying that, like, you don't wanna just you don't you're not willing to put anything out there so that students can learn even just some of what they're not not already receiving, because you want it to be more robust? No. No. I'm I'm happy for the material to be there, but I'm saying that we have an opportunity here right now at this particular time on this calendar to go in and get this particular course aligned with what else is going coming down the pipe.
And also what came up Congress Avenue too. So Understood. Let me ask you what but under but we're on a timeline right now where if we're not if we're not approving this course, they don't get it right now. They won't be receiving this isn't even going to be an option for students. We are going to be entering, our social studies review, you know, timeline. And so there will be time then to relook at this course as will, you know, be the case for social studies generally. And so, you know, what I'm trying to understand is,
is your position that we not move forward right now and and keep this course from be from even being made available, right now. And I do I also wanna just before you answer that as a clarification, and I'm sure that you can appreciate this, sir, as a professor in higher education. As a student of, as a student of education myself who studied critical race theory, I have to clarify that that does not exist in k 12 education. And so to to to state that it's a fallacy that it does not or to state that it is exists in k 12. Like, unless you understand,
critical race theory, I I don't necessarily know that it's safe to speak about it without fully understanding what it truly is and whether or not it actually exists in k 12 education. Sure. I'm I'm not sure that I was speaking to the point directly of CRT. But so ultimately, this is why you guys get elected and you sit sit on this board. Would you rather teach a flawed force or take a breath and teach an improved force? And I and maybe that's the question. That's certainly not mine to answer.
I'm just throwing some observations out there. And if I if I can answer that question, I mean, I think that, you know, the argument can be made that there are quite a few flaws in how we teach social studies and how we teach science currently. Sure. But to not allow students to have the opportunity to to get any of this knowledge, I think, would be, a disservice to plenty of students who've already been benefiting from the course. Sure. And that's the opportunity cost. You're exactly right. But what I also heard before I got up here is that this may not
get past a critical review of current legislation too. So I'm just saying that maybe this is a particular junction where everybody can take a pause. We miss a generation of students. I share that concern. But the follow on students, I think, will be getting a superior product if we just think it out. That's all I'm saying. K. Got, doctor Clark, member of Ellis, and member Pickering. Thank you. Doctor Frazier, quick question. Yep. Have you read the updated version? I'm not sure I have.
Thank you. Yeah. Miss Lynette, can you come to the stand, please? Thank you for being here and representing GPISD. I appreciate that. Thank you. Can you walk us through the most recent revisions that you all went through? I believe did, TEA give you a copy? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So you have that, packet, and it looks as though Point of information. What's your point of information? Chairman, there's been so many revisions and documents going around. I just wanna be sure. The the this one, is it the most recent one that's being referred to now?
Because I have, like, probably five versions in my position. The one that was handed out today. Right? Yes. Yes. So this is, what TEA put to Sorry. I'm waiting for the chairman to confirm. The chairman cannot confirm at the moment because I was just about to look for it myself. I don't know where my phone is. Okay. Alright. I'll It has Choctaw letter on the top of it. Mhmm. It has the fat. Is wait. Is that stapled or that's just is that separate? What's that letter? Separately. It's separate. Okay. But it's a fact? Yes. Okay. Alright. Thank you, chair. Okay. Okay.
Please continue, ma'am. So you have the the course application there. You have, where they do a side by side document that shows the changes, and then they also did the the materials review. But if you wanna see a side by side, you go to that looks like this chart where it shows the original and then the changes. And empires has been taken off to address Frasier's wording concern there. I do not believe with the current wording that it sounds DEI or CRT.
I'm not sure how a land acknowledgment would equate to CRT because, basically, a land acknowledgment, you're just recognizing who's lived on that land before. So That's Clark. Do you have more questions? No. I just wanted miss Lynette to speak to the changes and, let us know what revisions have been made. Right. And you could see there's been a lot, and you could see that that middle column would be the wording, like, what has been addressed or changed. So I really would urge you to look at this and just know that it's
not. I don't see that it's DEI or CRT. Of course, you're you have to judge it for yourself. Can one last question. Sorry. Uh-huh. Can you tell me the impact that the students of Grand Prairie ISD have had on this course? Right. So we've had students that are native and non native, and they've really enjoyed the course. You know, we've had non native students kind of, you know, like mister Parra had, said in his testimony where they're they felt like nobody really saw them.
You know, they just you know, teachers, you could look at people and think they're Hispanic or even white, and they could be native. And so they just felt really appreciated, really affirmed with that. Some didn't know much about their culture because they live, you know, in Grand Prairie. We're kind of urban, suburban. So seeing learning more about their culture, and then we have non native students who are just learning that, you know, that there's others in their neighborhood, so to speak. And learning more about others, I think,
is very important for social studies, and it builds empathy and just knowing fellow citizens in your area. It really helps students and it builds unity and understanding. And I do serve Grand Prairie ISD. Correct? Yes. So Grand Prairie has become very much of a melting pot. Right? So we're seeing all these different cultures, demographics come together. So it's important for us to continue to allow students to learn other information in
which they could feel supported and valued within their culture and community. Correct? Right. And also ethnic studies in general, there's research that shows that students do better academically. They're more engaged with school. They're motivated to come to school. They're even more motivated to go into higher education when they have these courses that help them to learn about others. It's just a very high interest course for students as well. And, again, it's a choice. You know, parents don't have to, you know, put their kids there.
So Correct. And all week, we've managed to be able to talk about choices for our students. So thank you for that. Yes. Member Bells. My question's been answered. Thank you. K. Somebody else have a question? I had a question. Member Hall. Yes. So, can you repeat what you said about land acknowledgments, please? Right. So a land acknowledgement is a statement of basically who has been there before, like native cultures who So would you list every tribe who's been there before or just one because every time I hear a land acknowledgement, it's one tribe who's been there before.
And so would you list every tribe when you're when you're teaching this? Can. Is that what would happen in Grand Prairie ISD is this course is being taught? Are they gonna recognize that nuance throughout history? Are they gonna recognize that, I mean, was that just because you're teaching the importance of land acknowledgments, not just in one specific area, which fails to recognize any nuance in, like, in some areas, that were controlled by Native Americans. There were deals, treaties, you know, sales that were entered into voluntarily. And so the land acknowledgment, you know, theory of,
this is all stolen land, it doesn't recognize those nuances at all. So how is that nuance, like, just teaching that this is always a good thing? Well, I mean, you just you don't even have to state that it's stolen land. I mean, you could just say we recognize, you know, the people who were here before us. I mean, it doesn't happen. Again, when it's being taught in Grand Prairie ISD, are you teaching that, it wasn't just one tribe that always controlled the land, that it went back and forth, all of that? Or are you just saying, you know, land acknowledgments in general are a good idea? Because, I mean, specifically,
the line in the course is that it honors, you know, the ancestral homeland or or something to that effect. Mhmm. Yeah. So they could definitely talk about who was there before in in Grand Prairie or wherever Is that happening in Grand Prairie? Or Yes. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Any further questions? Member Pickering. Well, thank you, mister chairman. I'm kind of fascinated now based on this land acknowledgment. I own a lot of real estate. Do I have to go back and acknowledge everybody who ever had a deed to any property I ever owned? I mean, it's that would be your choice.
But, I mean, sometimes it's more like an opening of meetings or, you know, it just if if you don't wanna do it, you don't have to. Okay. But we're teaching kids to do it. Right? Grandpa, are you teaching kids to do it? Why people would would do that? Like, what's the purpose of one? Because sometimes they might may go somewhere and hear it and not know what it is. So do you in the It's just in this course that they're doing this. It's not like every course they're doing this. Right. You're teaching it in this course to acknowledge land acknowledgments.
You're teaching the kids to About what it is. You know? What one might look like? Right. So that's interesting to me because a lot of, Native American, a lot of Indian lands were actually sold to United States and sold to Texas. So that's odd to me that you would say, you know, I'm just gonna pick a date. 1814, a deed transaction happened, and this is how much it was paid for. So we're gonna acknowledge that that deed transaction as a classroom or state. This is so odd to me. I'm sorry. I can't wrap my mind around it. This is so odd. Okay. And then the other thing is,
I remember when we re reviewed bluebonnet materials, I saw quite a few lessons about Indians and bluebonnets. So I've heard around this, horseshoe that we don't teach and on the screen. We don't teach Indian history in Texas. But I think it is in our teach, and it is in our in our instructional materials. So I would like to ask TEA staff how many times Indian history or culture is in our TEKS and how many times it is in our Bluebonnet materials. Because if I'm being told that we don't teach it,
so we have to have this course, I'd like to have some data. Yeah. It's very sparse in our courses in social studies. Yes, ma'am. I'd like to get an official answer from Texas Education Agency, if you don't mind. Sure. Member Hickman. Move we close public testimony. Second. A motion and a second. Procedural motion, there's no debate. All those in favor of closing public testimony, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed, no. And the ayes have it. Public testimony has been closed. We've gone over our, consecutive time here. So, like, it's 05:43. We're gonna take a fifteen minute break per the rules,
and then we're gonna come back at 05:58. And they turn the Wi Fi off. Let me go ahead and make this announcement. They're turning the Wi Fi off in this building at 07:30. So you can interpret that for how we apply. I can't get it extended. By 07:30, we Yeah. By statute, we have to. Yes. Point of information, sir. Oh, sure. These are What's the point of information? What is So what What's the point of information? Chair, did you say by statute we have to end at 07:30? I I don't understand that. Because they're turning the Wi Fi off,
and I can't they they're unwilling to keep it on later, and we have to be online. So we gotta be finished by 07:30. So so the the TFC is, I guess, preventing us from doing or statutory required duty. I'm like, it goes past that Okay, members. We're back. We are on agenda item number one still. So we had a motion to close public testimony that passed. What I was going to call on, doctor Young. Do you see doctor Young right? This time, I'm calling doctor Young to kinda recap what happened in the committee on instruction in
April regarding this course. If you can kind of bring us up to up to speed on that. Sure. In April, we had the opportunity to, make some recommendations to the staff about what we'd like to see moving forward with innovative courses just to provide a little bit of information. In twenty one-twenty two for the twenty two-twenty three cycle, we requested that all new applications provide evidence that the course has been successfully piloted in its entirety and then at least and in at least one school in the
state of Texas. And then, in 2024, we added that all innovative courses come through the Committee on Instruction and to the State Board of Education. Because prior to that, some of those innovative courses were were not approved by us and added to the course. And then, also at that same time, we adopted the requirement that innovative courses provide us a copy of the materials that they're providing, that they're utilizing to teach that innovative course.
And the purpose of that was to take a look at what's actually being taught in the classroom, not just being proposed in an application. This is, we all know, that can oftentimes be two very different things. So what the staff did, which took a lot of time, energy, and effort on their behalf, was break down, and they didn't just do it for this course, but you have it, they did it for all of our other innovative courses as well, a list of the if you'll go to page, 50. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. The curriculum review begins on page 56.
So if you'll look in your packet on page 56 52? Okay. It's okay. It's really small, and and TEA apologizes for that. That's why I had to go get my glasses, and I'm probably still going to put it next to my face in order to read it. So, you'll see that it that begins the review of the curriculum for, this particular course, and it lists an indicator as well as guidance, and then it also talks in the third column about it being whether it's thematic and any citations,
one, two, and three, and Monica can answer more in-depth, questions that you may have in relation to that. And so you can flip through. It starts on 53 and it goes all the way to the end of this document, all the materials that are used and the web pages that they go to, and any concerns that may be brought up based on some of the guidance and guidelines that we have provided to us from elements from our suitability rubric, which in particular are just ensuring that we're following state law.
So, Monica, would you like to tell a little bit more about what y'all did? It was a lot of work, and I really appreciate it. Yeah. Doctor Young essentially covered it, but just to, explain what you see in the criteria, we took all of the indicators, all of your suitability indicators, and we included them in this document. And then we went through all of the education code to, to try to identify any state law that would be potentially applicable to an innovative course, and we included that at the end of the,
the matrix that you see here. So for example, any content related to human sexuality instruction or human trafficking requires, parent the parental notification. So to to try and, address anything that might, intersect with any relevant law is added to the end of this document. And then as doctor Young noted, so if you see, there are two resources for this course. There's an atlas of Indian nations, and we did not identify anything to flag for that particular resource.
Then there is an electronic database that is titled the American Indian experience. There's a direct quote if we identified anything that might be related to one of the criteria. If there's either a single citation, two citations, if it was thematic, we gave three examples. This document does not intend to indicate that we think that these are contrary to the criteria, but they were areas that we felt we should flag, I think similar to what I understand your MRAA reviewers do for further consideration and
determination by board members. Member's questions? Actually, yeah. Go ahead. Let's go into questions. Member Pickering. Yes. Monica, can you point me to the flags? Yes, ma'am. So, if you turn to I think the first one's going to be on page 58, and you'll see on page 58, there were two citations. What we did is this was this is an electronic database, that you we can get give you the, the committee members have, and we can give you the username and password if you wanna go and look.
It shows the title, the location on the page, and then the direct quote of what, we thought had the potential to interact with that particular criterion. And then there's the the direct link to that as well. Oh my goodness. So there are, like, a hun almost a 100 pages of violations? No, ma'am. There are a 100 there are a 100 pay so you have to see not every row has a citation. But for every module, you have all of the criteria.
So how many citations are there? We didn't count the number. I can tell you for the atlas, there were zero. Okay. But I'm not looking at zero here. That's the that's the that's the second that's the second resource. Right. So there are two resources. Yes. I see. One of them had none. The other, I don't have an exact number. And, again, I I wanna be careful. I'm not saying that these are any sort of violation. I'm saying these are things that we identified for you to take a look at and make a determination about whether it is, an area of concern.
Okay. And then I have another question for you on this. Okay. So the citation, there were two sources on the citations. Do we have edit authority? Like, if we go if we bring this course up and we're gonna, can we go ahead and edit where these potentially break the lock? Can we edit them? These, this is a would be, like, the equivalent of a textbook. And so I don't believe you would have the ability to edit a textbook or a website. These are the this is not the the standards. This is the recommended materials. Right. Which correlate to the standards. Which the, applicant is recommending be used to teach,
in the teaching of this course. Okay. Right. But, I mean, it's it's part of what we're voting on today. It is so what you're voting on today is whether or not to recommend that the State Board of Education approve awarding of credit, state credit for this course. Right. I will, and and this is something that doctor Young will be bringing up tomorrow. I will share for the, benefit of the rest of the board members that, when the committee looked at some other courses today, they, preliminarily recommended approval contingent upon certain materials being removed.
So that was a morning. So if we approve this course, this is part of what we're approving, where all these citations are that that, potentially violate our You you are approving award of state credit for this course. Right. But the course Does the materials? Includes a recommendation for materials. So, if another ISD if if this course were available and another ISD were to opt to teach this course, that ISD could say, I don't want to use this resource.
I'm going to use a different resource. So how aligned is this resource to the standards that we're gonna be voting on? And are there any other materials that are aligned to it? So we we were not tasked with checking the degree to which the materials are aligned because they're recommended resources. I I think we heard that there are resources out there that address this content. Okay? And then, in this report, did we run the TEKS also through s p 12? We did not run the standards.
Right. They're not TEEX. They're just standards. Right. But we we, at the time that we reviewed these standards, these these applications, that bill had not been passed into law. So we did not add anything related to that bill to this document because it was not law at the time that we reviewed all of the applications. Oh, my. Okay. Thank you. Further questions? Sure. Member Hickman. Monica, I just want to clarify. I think you just hinted at it what we're doing today. Is education code twenty eight zero two in terms of innovative courses.
We're supposed to be flexible in approving a course for credit. So we are not drafting what what are they called? Standards? Correct. We're not drafting, amending, changing standards. We're not adopting instructional materials. We are only deciding if this course is allowed as an elective credit for graduation requirements. Yes, sir. And this ISD or any other ISD can offer this course no matter what we do today? Correct. Right. Okay. I think. Are we in discussion? Or we have a motion? Or You are recognized to make the main motion if you'd like to be so.
I'm not sure what you usually do, doctor Young, but I would approve this, move to approve this course as an innovative course. Second. And motion and a second. Is there a discussion? Doctor. Ellis? I know it's been talked about, but I just want to clarify now that we have this motion on the floor. What does that process if we pass this, what's the next step in the process of a Teaks based course buyer rule through Doctor. Young's committee? Does that trigger the start of a Teaks based course by passing this as an
innovative course? Yes, sir. Member Hagan? Member Ellis, if you look at TAC 7,427, an ethnic studies course that has been approved by the SVOE as an innovative course shall be considered by the SVOE at a subsequent meeting for inclusion in the TEKS. Ethnic studies are Native American, Latino, African American and or Asian Pacific Islander studies. And then the Chair of the Committee on Instruction will collaborate with the Board Chair to place the item on the next available Committee on Instruction agenda following SVOE approval of the innovative course.
Does that answer? Yes. Further discussion? Chair. Member Hayman? I did some further reading on SB12. I'm not at all worried about going to jail. If you go further down, there's SB12 is targeted at ISD employees in paragraphs b and c. And there's potential discipline for ISD employees for violating SB12. And then there's an exception for SPOE adopted TEEX courses. So if the ISD is doing something off the rails that they're already doing,
us deciding on graduation requirements or not does not concern me at all. Happy to be corrected by by legal. And then there's a number of hoops, you would have to jump through to even show that there's a problem here. So, I think the exception for me on the SBOATiques adopted, to me shows an intent of the legislature that this is not applying to classrooms when they're talking about policies, procedures, trainings, activities or programs. Member Francis? Thank you, Chairman. Chairman, could you advise us, based on what the member just said about these legal ramifications,
could one member indicate or I guess speak for this board if we're doing a board action? What would what would be the proper thing to consider before we make this vote? The law, I think that member Hickman is offering his interpretation, as an individual to the board to consider. As the attorney general's office told us earlier, there's a number of, statutes that we should consider in this decision, but I don't think member Hagman or anybody else can speak for the entire board. Sorry. You said the attorney general earlier The attorney general's office that was here.
He had some concerns. Is that what you said? I'm saying that he said the consideration should be, several laws. So I'm not opining on this. I'm just telling you you asked what should be considered. And I think he gave several statutes that we could consider in this. One other avenue is we could ask the TA attorneys who are kindly still with us today. Chair? I have not finished, Chair. I'm sorry, I remember. And I think the member mentioned something about an exception for State Board of Education. So if probably legal could answer this,
is there I might to understand there's a car vote for state board of education action that seems very unlikely, but just need clarity. Bob? Excuse me. So under senate bill 12, in, 11, excuse me, 11.005, which is your prohibition on diversity, equity, and inclusion duties, subsection, e is your exceptions. So it says nothing in this section may be construed to and then that is subject, subsection five apply to classroom instruction that is consistent
with the essential knowledge and skills adopted by the state board of education. Okay. So you just read what was on the page. Does it say that it prevent it excludes the state board of education in making, rules or voting on anything that would be in conflict with the intent of this this piece of legislation. So basically, we could do whatever we wanna do even if it's DEI. So, in 11.05 a, that provides you the definition of diversity,
equity, inclusion. That's where you focused on mostly before which is influencing hiring, promoting differential treatment or special benefits based on race, developing or implementing policies, procedures, trainings, etcetera, or compelling a DEI statement. That's the definition of DEI. Now the application of this section, is in b, except as required by state or federal law. A school district may not assign DEI duties to any person and shall prohibit a district employee,
contractor, or volunteer from engaging in diversity, equity, inclusion duties at or on behalf of the district. And then it requires in subsection c, a school district shall adopt a policy and procedure for the appropriate discipline, including deter deter termination of someone who violates that. Okay. So the section itself applies to a school district. However, I think we have been consistent in that, the board should not set up a school district for failure. I have a follow-up to that.
Could you tell me what section 28.0043 says? Can you give me that citation again, please? Yes, sir. Section 28.0043. The title of it Is restriction on instruction regarding sexual orientation and gender identity. Would you like me to read further? No. I just see here, I guess, if you could advise me in section 21 of this bill, it talks about the State Board of Education may not adopt standards in violation, of that section. So does that section,
yes or no, discusses diversity, equity, inclusion, which would preclude the State Board of Education from adopting these standards and such in violation of that that, piece of code? Yeah. So the legislature added, subsection c dash six in twenty eight zero zero two that prohibits the SVOE from adopting standards in violation of section 28.0043. So that specific prohibition is limited to section 28.0043.
So I guess my going back to my original question. So okay. So I I've identified an error that is specifically called out. So now am I to understand that this board could adopt any other procedure, rules, framework that would otherwise be in violation of the law that was passed in the state, SB 12 if, for example, if we were a school district? I I certainly would not advise you to adopt anything that you think is in violation of the law. Thank you, sir. That's all. Member Perez Diaz?
Chairman, I'd like to call the question. Second. We have a motion to call the question and a second. It's not debatable. All those in favor of calling the question, please show by raising your hand. 10? I'm assuming member Perez Diaz. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Parliamentary inquiry. What's your parliamentary inquiry? Could you just restate and who whose motion was that? Member Hickman. Okay. Can you restate the motion for me, please? Alright. And can you restate the motion? May I please? Or please. May I have a microphone? Thank you. It was moved by member Hickman to recommend that the State Board of Education approve
the American Indian Native Studies course. Second. She's just restating it. It's already been Restating it. We're saying Okay. So we had 10 for calling the question. I haven't done the nays. So all those, opposed to calling the question, please show by raising your hand. 10. The question has been called. You just heard the motion. Is there any question about what we're voting on? Okay. Member Hall? I'd like to request a roll call vote. Okay. Roll call vote has been requested and will be granted staff. Please call the roll. Member Reveles? Yes. Member Francis? No. Member Perez Diaz? Yes.
Member Childs? Yes. Member Belmeiro? Yes. Member Hickman? Yes. Member Pickering? No. Member Young? No. Member Ellis? Yes. Member Maynard? No. Member Little? Yes. Member Hall? No. Member Clark? Yes. Member Brooks? Yes. Okay. Nine five. The motion carries. We will, make that recommendation to the State Board of Education for tomorrow. That completes our agenda for today. I'll see everybody back tomorrow. The meeting starts at 9AM. Lenny has asked me to remind everybody to show up at 08:30 because your student
heroes are going to be here for photos. 08:30, please. Yes. This is the since I think we started that program in 2015 or so. And historically, we've just ordered those out in the district. This is the first time we've had them come here. So it's kind of of a big thing. Yeah. This is the first time we've actually recognized them at a meeting. I think that's very exciting. And and I've spoken with my, hero, and he and his parents are coming tomorrow and the superintendent from the school. So I think that's very exciting that we're doing it that way.
I you know, unfortunately, my student hero can't make it. Geography is the heck of a thing. And, I just wanna see if there's any chances as we move forward to recognize that anything we do here in Austin, that requires personal participation may impact those of us who live in a different time zone. Okay. See you at 08:30. At this point, we'll stay and adjourned. Thank you.