##VIDEO ID:https://www.adminmonitor.com/tx/tea/general_meeting/20250131/## Good morning. Welcome to the 01/31/2025 meeting of the Texas State Board of Education. We have a lot of visitors here with us today. We're very excited. We have Blue Ribbon winners who have come from all over the state, to celebrate their accomplishment. We have lots of students here with us, which we always appreciate as well. At this time, we're going to, I'm going to turn it over to Member Pickering who's going to introduce our student performance and then we'll continue on with the business. Member Pickering? Yes, sir. Good morning. I'd like to introduce our Brazos Wood High School jazz band. Thank you all for coming. And I'd like to acknowledge, superintendent Danny Massey. Oh, go ahead and stand. Brazoswood High School principal, doctor Jarrett Johnson. Brazoswood band directors, Nicholas Shurtleff and Jeremiah Jones. So the Brazoswood High School PM Jazz Band is deeply honored to perform for the State Board of Education this morning. Brazoswood High School is one of two high schools in the Brazosport Independent School District that boast a rich music tradition. Brazoswood's PM Jazz Band was the Texas Music Educator Association or TMEA's invited jazz ensemble for the twenty twenty one virtual clinic and convention. In 2019, the PM Jazz Band was named a national winner in the mark of excellence national jazz honors. Since February, Brazos Wood has placed 25 students in the TMEA all state jazz bands, and graduates of the program continue to study at some of the top universities in the country and perform professionally around the world. Over its storied existence, Brazoswood jazz band students have had the opportunity to learn from and perform alongside some of the top jazz performers in the country. Decorated alum included world renowned jazz pianist Steve Hunt and acclaimed band leader and vocalist Christian Wiggs. Ladies and gentlemen, let's give a warm welcome to the Brazos Wood High School PM Jazz Band. One, two, and one, It's just a huge honor that they would be here to see the dance. They do so much for not just our group, but all the fine arts in the district. And I just wanted to take a second to again thank them for being here. I'm sure some of you guys have wanted to stand up and dance during this time, which you can. There's a lot of room. Is that nice? Dish. Yeah. But if you feel like you wanna stand up, then please follow me and do so. Here we go. And one, two, three. And I just students, before y'all leave, I just wanna tell y'all thank you for sharing your god given talents with us. You were a blessing to the state of Texas today. Thank you to the Brazos Foot High School PM jazz band. Next, we're gonna move to the invocation. Miss, Pickering, will you please please bring the invocation and lead us in the pledges? Yes, mister chairman. If y'all would please stand for the invocation and the pledges. Today, our invocation is going to be, the lord's prayer. So if anyone would like to say it along with me, you're more than welcome to. Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever. In the name of Jesus. Amen. Now for the pledges, hand over your heart. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Now for the Texas pledge. The Texas flag is over here for anyone who can't see. I know the room's a little different. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible. Thank y'all and God bless Texas. Thank you. Staff, if you please call the roll. Mister Reveles? Present. Mister Francis? Here by god's grace. Missus Perez Diaz? Miss Childs? Here. Doctor Belmetto? Present. Miss Pickert? Here. Mister Hickman? Doctor Young? Doctor Ellis? Here. Mister Maynard? Here. Mister Hall? Here. Missus Little? Here. Doctor. Clark? Present. Mrs. Brooks? Present. Mr. Kinsey? Here. Thank you. The quorum is present. Let's go ahead and stand at ease for five minutes here and let them finish getting the room reset, get the drums taken down. So times 09:29. Let's go back at 09:35. Stand at ease. Business to be considered is the approval of the minutes of the State Board of Education meeting from November twenty second of twenty twenty four and December sixth of twenty twenty four. Are there any corrections to the minutes? Okay, seeing none, the minutes are approved. Our next business in order today is the presentation of resolutions. We are pleased to have several resolutions for consideration. And if there's no objection, and as we've done previously, the CTE resolution will be read by student Caden Garner. Caden serves as the state vice president of FFA and is from Howe, Texas. He's a member of Area five FFA Association. Whereas February 2025 has been designated national career and technical education month, and whereas about 1,350,000 Texas secondary students are enrolled in one or more career and technical education courses in 1,200 school districts and charter schools throughout the state. And whereas CTE offers students the opportunity to gain the academic, technical, and employability skills necessary for career readiness. And whereas students in CTE programs participate in authentic, meaningful experiences and apply academic knowledge and skills from across the curriculum, which improve the quality of their overall education, And whereas CTE is vital and integral part of the foundational high school program, offering students pathways to earn endorsements, performance acknowledgments, and industry validated credentials. And whereas Texas is proud to support nine CTE student organizations, Business Professionals of America, DECA Texas Association, Future Business Leaders of America, Family Career and Community Leaders of America, Texas Health Occupation Students of America, SkillsUSA Texas, Texas Association of Future Educators, Texas FFA Association, and Texas Technology Student Association. And whereas CTE programs prepare students for a variety of careers by offering integrated programs of study that link secondary and post secondary education and significantly contribute to college readiness. And whereas ensuring that employers have access to qualified workforce is crucial to the Texas economy. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Texas State Board of Education, which has been designated by the Texas legislature as the State Board for Career and Technical Education, does hereby proclaim February 2025 as Career and Technical Education Month in Texas, and does hereby urge all Texans to become familiar with the outstanding programs delivered by exceptional CTE teachers and communities across the state and to support these programs to enhance college and career readiness for all Texas students. Witness our signatures this January 2025 in Austin, Texas. Texas. Erin Kinsey Chair Will Hickman Secretary. Yes. Okay, Mr. Hickman, our newly elected board secretary will present the next resolution. And for the Blue Ribbon Schools, as I call on your school's name, please come to the middle and state board members be ready to, join the school if it's, your school being recognized. Whereas the National Blue Ribbon Schools program recognizes elementary, middle, and high schools where educational excellence is achieved, whereas the National Blue Ribbon Schools flag overhead is a mark of exemplary teaching and learning, whereas in 2024, Texas nominated 26 schools to be recognized for their students' achievement and whereas 26 of these schools were named twenty twenty four National Blue Ribbon Schools by the United States Department of Education, now therefore be it resolved that the State Board of Education does hereby extend its congratulations as exemplary high performing and achievement gap closing schools to Industrial Junior High School in Industrial Independent School District, SBOE member Francis. Archer City Elementary in Archer City, SBOE member Kinsey, And be it further resolved that the State Board of Education does hereby extend its congratulations as exemplary high performing schools to Jesus A. Kawas Elementary in Laredo Independent School District, SBOE member, Ravelez. Briss Academy and Raul Izaguirre Schools for Success, SBOE member, Francis. Florence j Scott Elementary and Roma Independent School District, SBOE member Perez Diaz, Alief Early College High School and Alief Independent School District, SBUAE member Young. I'll pause for a moment. Let them Gus Winston Kane Elementary in White House Independent School District, and Hudson Elementary in Longview Independent School District, SBOE member Ellis. Flatonia Elementary and Flatonia Independent School District, SBOE member Maynard. Dave Blair Elementary and Carrollton Farmers Branch Independent School District, SBOE member Brooks. Bob l Kirksey Elementary and Booker Independent School District and Groover High School in Groover Independent School District. Oh, member Kinsey has a number. That's why. Jaden Schools in Jaden Harard Independent School District, Nazareth School in Nazareth Independent School District, and RISE Academy in RISE Academy, all for SBUAE member Kinsey. And be it further resolved that the State Board of Education is hereby extend its congratulations as exemplary achievement gap closing schools to Abraham Kazan Elementary and United Independent School District, SBOE member, Reviles. Robert b Green Elementary at Riverside Park in San Antonio Independent School District, SBOA member, Perez Diaz. Ambassadors prepare Preparatory Academy and ambassadors preparatory academy, SBOA member Pickering, Caldwell Arts Academy in Tyler Independent School District, SBOE member Ellis. Natchez High School in Natchez Independent School District, SBOE member Maynard. Grapevine Colleyville Collegiate Academy at Tarrant County College Northeast in Grapevine Colleyville Independent School District, SBUAE member Hall. White Right Middle School and White Right Independent School District, SBUAE member Little. De Leon High School in De Leon Independent School District, and Hillsborough Junior High School in Hillsborough Independent School District, SBUAE member Brooks. And last but not least, Ereon High School in Erieon Independent School District and Kuana High School in Kuana Independent School District SBUE member Kinsey. And be it further resolved, this resolution should be presented to the principals of the aforementioned schools for being recognized for excellence through the National Blue Ribbon Schools Program and that a copy be included in the permanent records of the State Board of Education. Witness our signatures this January 2025 in Austin, Texas, Aaron Kinsey, Chair and your Board Secretary, Will Hickman. My funniest Gina memory was reading the love letter from Kevin's wife. On his birthday, she had this whole thing she had to read, and she was vomiting the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations to all those, recipients. All those in favor of adopting the resolution, say aye. Aye. The resolution is adopted. Being advised by staff that we need about two minutes here to do another reset prior to the next agenda item, which will be public testimony. So we'll just stand at ease. If we can just remain in the room, please, and we'll get started again. Yeah. Are they still in 2.007 or are they gone? I saw it. I saw it. Thank you, Yolanda. Okay, next order of business is public testimony. We have several signed up to testify today. We do have three board members. This is your first week, so I'll just make sure I cover a couple of things and remind members who've been here before. We're not posted for this topic, and so as such, there can be no questions from the Board. Testifiers will have two minutes. I'll let Yolanda, if you can go over the rules for that as soon as we start. But, any questions from Board members on that? Okay. Staff, please call on the testifiers. Okay. Testifiers, I'll call four at a time. I'll need for the four people to, take the seats, in front of the projector. You'll have two minutes to provide your testimony. You'll hear, the bell at a minute thirty seconds. That'll give you thirty seconds remaining to complete your testimony. I'll start with the first four. Julia Brookins, Alexia Letchler, Raquel Zamora, Caitlin Macklin, Julia Brookins. Good morning. Good morning. My name is Julia Brookins. I'm senior program analyst for teaching and learning at the American Historical Association. Today, I'd like to share with you the 's criteria for K-twelve history and social studies standards, which were recently updated to make them clearer for a nonspecialist audience and to build on what we have learned through the years of in-depth research underlying the recent report, American lesson plan, teaching U. S. History in secondary schools. These updated criteria address form and content, as well as recommended features of the process by which a state develops its social studies standards. The process should be transparent, collaborative, and engage a range of professional expertise and classroom experience, as well as members of the public. Social studies standards in many states largely meet these criteria. Through its teaching division and through members of the association in each state, the stands ready to collaborate in the development of future standards. In form, content, and tone, standards in history and social studies vary significantly from state to state. Standards articulate broad goals with much of the how and why left to teachers and districts. The 's approach to state standards and related assessments starts from the premise that every student has the right to a history rich education. Standards lay the groundwork for achieving this goal when they prioritize student learning, outline achievable expectations for teachers, emphasize the importance of dedicated instructional time for history, cultivate historical awareness, and foreground disciplinary concepts that encompass both analysis and content knowledge. History rich standards provide the strongest possible foundation for a system of public education that cultivates deep historical knowledge as well as the skills necessary to navigate our world and participate responsibly in shaping its future. Thank you. Alexia Lechler. Hello. My name is Alexia Leclerc, and I'm an educator, organizer, and cofounder of education nonprofit, Start Empowerment. Growing up, my mother taught me the importance of education in learning knowledge, values, and how to navigate the world, but I never saw myself or my communities reflected in the curriculum. This led me to graduate from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, where I research how ethnic studies and critical inquiry improves learning outcomes for youth. I'm here today to urge board members to get curious about what is missing from our curriculum and to hear the discussion to adopt the American Indian native studies and Asian American studies course this year. I also want to ask for the innovative course renewal to be included in the state board of education agenda for April and be renewed because districts are setting their calendars for the next school year and need to know the status of the American Indian native studies course. Lastly, I ask for the course to be considered for full TEEX adoption this year. Teaching ethnic studies is about teaching the real history of this country, the good, the bad, and everything in between. Passing this course is not about division. It's about ensuring that every child, regardless of backgrounds, knows where they came from so they can be part of shaping our future. It is not fair to have certain cultures, knowledge, and history erased, especially those of indigenous people who are the original stewards of this land. Our communities are diverse, and our history and curriculum should reflect that. The data is also clear. It shows that ethnics if we invest in ethnic studies, we are investing in better learning outcomes for all students. Research shows that taking an ethnic studies course in high school can lead to better GPA, higher attendance than those who did not take an ethnic studies course. So let's choose to put students first. Let's choose to invest in developing civic engagement, empathy, and cross cultural learning. This is not just about education. It is about the future of our democracy and our communities. That's why we must ensure that real history of our diverse communities is included in the classroom. Thank you. Raquel Zamora. Kaitlyn Macklin. Hello. My name is Caitlin Macklin, and I'm a former teacher and current parent at Austin ISD. I'm here to urge board members to elevate honest and accurate education by prioritizing the renewal of the American Indian and Native studies course as soon as possible. When I was an elementary teacher, my students had questions about America's First peoples that our curriculum did not answer. So I began to educate myself. Having this course as a resource would be a huge benefit to teachers who, as we know, have little time and money. I was worried at first, and maybe you can relate to this, that learning the tragic pieces of our country's history would upset the children, but they were also fascinated and motivated. We all found the resilience of Native Americans to be inspiring and character building. As a white mom of three young kids, I know that the grief and the upset that we go through as we learn the full stories of all the peoples who have built our state and our nation actually helps us connect with others and all the folks in our communities. The innovative aims course helps teachers develop expertise in a content area that they don't often have the opportunity to develop. I would like to see a community of educators grow around teaching this content and supporting native voices. It's scary sometimes to acknowledge that there's more out there than we grew up with. Than we grew up with knowing. But let's celebrate that our students are ready for it. They're capable and want to better know people of all backgrounds. Because that only strengthens our democracy and enriches our lives. Let's celebrate that pilot students are really interested in this course and that it is boosting their attendance and academic performance. Let's celebrate that so many folks have poured so much work into and expertise into this fair, balanced, and rigorous curriculum. I ask that the board renew the AINS innovative course as soon as possible. Chair Kinsey, please place the course on the next agenda to be considered and discussed for full TEKS adoption this academic year. Thank you for listening. Testifiers, you may take your seats back in the audience. I'll call the next four. Joanna Townsley, Sochameli Vasquez, Laura Rios Ramirez, Steve Wandler, Brianna Cohen, Gabriel Rosales, Gail Warmbrant, Alo Garza, Maxolcu Cortez. Steve Wandler. Good morning, mister chair and members. My name is Steve Wandler, and I'm one of the cofounders at Bookmarked. I'm here today to introduce our solution as you address the important task of reviewing review reviewing books to ensure they are appropriate for k 12 schools across Texas. We understand that you have significant responsibilities regarding instructional materials, and your goal is to ensure Texas school children have the access to the age appropriate materials. I provided some information for you to review, and I've had the pleasure of speaking with you and meeting with a few of you in the past. Simply put, we provide a secure AI driven platform that streamlines the Herculean task of book reviews by using technology to objectively analyze and evaluate books. We know that neither you nor the school districts have the time or the staff to complete these reviews as quickly as needed. Our platform saves both districts and state significant time and resources while ensuring data informed compliance with district and state policies. So far, we've partnered with 92 school districts in Texas and we're working with eight region centers to further expand our reach and impact. This work has allowed us to support districts like Temple ISD where Doctor. Bobby Ott said, Steve, without the appropriate tools, it's like mission impossible. We can do it, but tools like this help us use our resources where they belong in classrooms. We've met with superintendents and members of the legislature, including Chairman Jared Patterson, the author of HB900. Through those conversations, we come to understand the importance of not just meeting compliance standards, but fostering communities of transparency and literacy. Bookmark goes beyond book reviews. It provides schools, students, and parents with clear insights into book collections, empowering them to make informed decisions that align with their individual values and needs. We look forward to continuing this dialogue as your time and process allows. Thank you. Brianna Cohen. No. Hello. I'm Brianna Cohen. I'm here because of the hearts of my great grandmothers, Clara and Eva. I'm a community organizer, outdoor educator, and graduate student of social work with a portfolio in Native American and indigenous studies at UT Austin. Through walking with mothers and sisters and teachers and native peoples with the land and water, I found honest, relational, and vital learning that undoubtedly supports the health of people and the environment. It is difficult to learn the full histories of this land and people because native history has historically been excluded and underrepresented from our curriculum. I speak to ask the board to renew the American Indian native studies innovative course and place the course on the next possible agenda for renewal and adoption as a TEEX course this year. Bringing awareness and coalitions of indigenous world views is vital for understanding our relationships with land, environment, community, and culture. This impacts youth and workforce readiness and our futures in health, education, policy, food systems, agriculture, cultural arts, land and water management, medicine, and much more. This course respects our diverse cultural history and what is now known as Texas in America and educates respectfully about the experiences, contributions, and histories of native peoples, which is critical for student learning. Many hours of dedicated work went into the cocreation of this course and has received great engagement from students. This course fosters awareness, heals relationships, and expands opportunities. As a student and community member, I wanna learn and teach the whole story. School districts who have already expressed interest in offering the course and dedicated teachers need clear direction now so they can incorporate the innovative course. Please renew and please place on the next available agenda to include native studies as a full fledged social studies elective. Thank you. Gail Warmbrut. Good morning. My name is Doctor. Gail Warmbright, and I'm Osage and, full time professor. I was born in Amarillo, Texas. Ma'am, if you can you have to get uncomfortably close to the microphone. It's too tall. Thank you. Is that better? Yes. Okay. I'm a professor, and I am Osage. I was born in Amarillo, Texas. Since 2018, I've been teaching at Johns Hopkins University and American University. And I also testify regularly on behalf of, students with disabilities as an expert witness. For the last two years, I've been serving as an instructional materials reviewer for TEA. And had I or if I served on the as a reviewer for the Native American studies course, I would support its renewal as an innovative course and adoption as a TEKS based course, and I hope that the board will do the same. Perceptions of schooling in America are inseparable from acts that ignore native cultural identity and history. As a child, my Osage grandmother was removed from her home and taken to an Indian boarding school where many children were abused and where our children were covertly buried, evidenced by 53 burial sites. These truths are rarely discussed in public education. Children's books in The US also ignore truths about first people. In a recent graduate class that I taught, we explored the popular children's book, Little House on the Prairie. The book makes reference to the Osage people living on Osage territory and where the Ingalls family squatted. Laura Ingalls describes how they were relieved to see the Indians ride away, when in fact, the Osage people were being forcibly removed from their home. In response to the massacre of Indians in the Pennsylvania colony, Benjamin Franklin wrote that the attackers were white, but being white was not what drove them. Franklin wrote, with scriptures in their hands and mouths, they disregarded the express command, thou shall do no murder, the worst of crimes on the God of peace and love. Franklin's account of the attack reminds us that actions should be assessed based on the outcomes they produce and not on those who perform them. The native studies course is critical to understanding the experiences of native people and American history with opportunities to reflect on ethical dilemmas. Excuse me. And the consequences of actions that lead to moral awareness. Ma'am, that's your two minutes. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Max Olchi Cortez? Yali, my name is. I'm here to testify for the Native American studies course to be put on the agenda and offered to students. I came to you first as a student. I've graduated, and now I'm working for rep Ayesha Davis at the house of representatives. I'm gonna continue this fight until you do right by Texans. I'm testifying testifying with rep Davis support because we have seen firsthand how you are lacking the integrity towards students you are supposed to serve. We've been testifying just to get a hearing on this course. Last hearing, you received over 40 written testimonies from students, teachers, and parents all calling for this course to be offered. Did you even read them, chairman Kizzy? All kinds of people's time and resources are being disrespected because you are delaying the hearing for this course. I shouldn't have to be here again telling you how this impacts native children's suicide and homicide rates because of how the current education impacts the stereotypes that are life threatening to indigenous people. I bet half of the people in this room don't know that Texas has one of the highest populations of native people in the country. As an indigenous person, we have an undeniable contribution to some of the most impactful knowledge in the country, and this is something that everyone can benefit from. This is something that we can all benefit from. Chairman Kinsey, people are tired of you not supporting Texas students. The students themselves have expressed that test in testimonies that that you have brought for the performances and have conversations about me about how they are disappointed in this. I have cousins who are ashamed to live in Texas because of the lack of representation in our education system. How can you say you serve the students and value the use youth when you silence them, when you contribute to their depression and lack of education? I really wish you would prove me wrong, chairman Kinsey, because this is a reflection on you. You have the power to do different, but through your actions, you are showing that you are thinking of yourself instead of the children and the teachers who are asking for this course to be offered. And before I leave, I want to offer a prayer song, and it's a prayer song for love. Ma'am, that's your two minutes. And I want to for being here. I appreciate it. Offer a prayer song for ten seconds. Ma'am, thank you for being here. That is your two minutes. I appreciate your testimony. Thank you. Okay. I have my email at the end of this. So you we we had your paper. Thank you. Point of order, mister chairman. What's your point of order? I just, I think if I recall is is that the nature of our testimony shouldn't be, you know, calling people out, you know, by name. And I think we need just as a matter of decorum, I think we need to need to stick with that. Testifiers, you can take your seat back in the audience. Thank you. I'll take that into consideration, no, ma'am. Thank you. I'll call the actually, I have Three left. So I'll call the last three. Raven Price Smith, Gabriel Arellano, Amanda Garcia. Are you Amanda? I'll I'll get to you, Manny. Okay. Sure. That's the That's the last of the, registered testifiers. We have one late Okay. Testifiers. We have completed the registered testifiers. We have one late test Far, my intent is to take that late registrant unless there's unless there's an objection. Seeing none, we'll take the testimony. Okay. Crystal Erickson Collins. Hello, chair Kinsey and board members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is Crystal Erickson Collins, and I live in Cedar Park. My children were educated in Texas public schools. I volunteered and guest taught, and I am a lifelong advocate of public schools. I believe a strength of public schools is that we provide an excellent education for each and every student. The result is a rich and diverse education for all students, which serves us all in our rich and diverse communities. I'm here asking you to put the ANIS back on the agenda and asking you to renew the innovation status now, paving the way for the discussion of it being a full TEEX based course. Further delay puts the course in jeopardy in the schools that have adopted it and increases difficulty in getting it into other school districts. Please move forward on this process that has been in development since 02/2018. There is broad and nonpartisan support for this course, and our students deserve to have it available for their education. Our students deserve to see themselves represented. Thank you. Okay. Members, we'll move on to the next agenda item that's approval of the consent agenda. Consent agenda begins on page 26. If you take a moment here to review the items on the consent agenda. I have not been notified up to this point of anybody's desire to pull something off of that. So this would be the time. If you're still reviewing the consent agenda, any more time, give me a signal. Okay. 30. Okay. I've heard of none that need to be removed. So seeing none, the consent agenda is adopted. Okay, on to next order of business, the report of the committee of the full board. The first item is the instructional materials review and approval cycle 2024 update agenda exhibit I-one. Vice Chair Loew? Mr. Chair, the Committee of the full Board took no action on this item. Thank you. The next item is proposed new 19 TAC Chapter 67, State Review and Approval of Instructional MR reviewers' Eligibility and Appointment, 60 seven-twenty nine, MR reviewers' Training Duties, Ethics and or training duties and conduct 67.31, procedures for public access to inhaling and resamples 67.33, public comment on instructional materials 67.39, updates to improved instructional materials 67.41, new additions of approved instructional materials in subchapter C, local operations 67 dot 61, sample copies of instructional materials for school district, and 67 dot 63, selection of local adoption of instructional materials by school district. Second reading and final adoption. Senior agenda exhibit I dash three. Vice Chair Loewell. Mister chair, the committee of the full board recommends that the State Board of Education approve for second reading and final adoption, proposed new 19 TAC chapter 67, state review and approval of instructional materials, subchapter b, state review and approval section 67.27. EMRA reviewers' eligibility and appointment section 67.29. EMRA reviewers' training duties and conduct, section six seven point three one, procedures for public access to handling of IMRA samples, section six seven point three three, public comment on instructional materials, section six seven point three nine, updates to approved instructional materials, and, six seven point four one, new additions of approved instructional materials and instructional materials for school districts, and section six seven point six three, selection in local adoption of instructional materials by school districts as amended, and make an affirmative finding that the immediate adoption immediate adoption of proposed new 19 TAC chapter 67 state review and approval of instructional materials, instructional materials, subchapter b, state review and approval six section 67.27, IMRA reviewers, eligibility and appointment, section six seven point two nine, IMRA reviewers training, duties and conduct, section six seven point three one, procedures for public access to and handling of EMRA samples, section six seven point three three, public comment on instructional materials, section six seven point three nine, updates to approved instructional materials, and section 67.41, new additions of approved instructional materials, and subchapter c, local operations, section 67.61, 60 seven point six three, selection and local adoption of instruction materials by school districts, is necessary and shall have an effective date of twenty days after filing as adopted with the Texas register. A note, a vote of two thirds of the members of the board is necessary for an earlier effective date. K. You've heard the motion which comes from a committee and needs no second. Is there any debate on the pending motion? Member Pickering. Thank you, mister chairman. I just have an amendment when your chair is ready. Okay. Ready? Miss miss Kaye, I'm connecting to the Internet so I could share it with you. Okay. Parliamentarian has asked that if you have amendments to this item or any future items in the agenda, if you can please, as a courteous c, send those her way so she can have them prepped. Mister chairman, this is, in '67 dot '20 '7 a. And while miss Kaye is receiving that amendment, this was presented to me by staff. And so if you don't mind, I would like for Colin to to this amendment. Would you like to make the motion first? Yes, sir. I'd like to make a a motion to amend 67 dot two seven a. What what was what is the amendment? Oh, I'm just waiting for miss Kaye. Okay. By inserting and forward slash or reference after supervisor. Second. Can we have a motion and a second? I'll second that. Then. Motion is second. Do you wanna wait for the catch on? Member Pickering, would you like to speak to it or you want me to ask Colin? If you would please ask Okay. Colin to Hi, Colin. Welcome to Friday. Good morning. We're on Friday's agenda on Friday. I know. We time traveled. Alright. Members, I I handed you the updated rule text, just to for new members so that you know what what all these different colors mean. If there is a red double underline, that means that was an amendment that was approved by the committee of the full board on air quotes Tuesday. And then if you see yellow, that's a recommended staff edit where our rulemaking team last night went through, just to make sure that we're we're structuring rule text correctly. Member Hickman, I think the the big one that you'll see here is sections d and p have been converted to be those section headers for quality review quality reviewer and suitability reviewer. And so I just wanted to make you all aware of of what this colorful document was in front of you. And then the member Pickering, during the course of the the item on Tuesday, had asked that we we find a way to not limit section a to the collection of a supervisor contact information for reviewers. The reason being that there are some folks who don't have a supervisor, and therefore would not have, be able to provide a supervisor contact. And so, the amendment offered by member Pickering would add and or a reference, I e, a personal reference, that could be offered by that applicant as to not make them feel like they're locked out of the MRAA reviewer process. And so, prepared that for Member Pickering last evening. Apologies, Ms. Kaye, that was I didn't get that to you this morning. So, that's the amendment on the floor and the overall rule text that's in front of you. Member Pickering. Yes. Thank you, mister chairman. Yes. This is just a clarification of the process that, TEA staff is already following for whenever we have parents or grandparents or community members that would like to also participate in the review process. So we're just cleaning up this verbiage so it reflects the process that they are already utilizing. So I have a question on the thank you, by the way. I have a question on the wording of it. So I think the way this reads is that, if an applicant doesn't want to provide a supervisor's name, they now have that option of not doing so. And I'm not sure that's the intent that's been expressed. Seems like the intent is if you don't have a supervisor. Can you help me understand? Yes. So the intent is for really for the suitability rubric, but a applies to to both. A is an umbrella that applies to both. So when, when staff, ESE staff, teachers, employees of school districts, or employees of charter schools, when they are applying for to be a quality reviewer, then they do need to, provide a supervisor's contact information for reference and and verification. But when we have our great mama bears and grandparents and dads who want to review content, which I think they are more concerned with the suitability side of our products of IMs, they would not have a supervisor to contact for verification or for reference. And so this is just, like I said, this is already following what TEA has in their practicum already, where if someone is not do you want me to continue? Okay. Where someone is not in the employment of an ESC or school district or charter school, then this provides a way for them to still serve. Mr. Chair. Okay. Member Hickman, I'd like to offer a secondary amendment, Mr. Chairman. Sure, amendment. So include a resume and supervisor, insert comma if applicable, And then the rest would read, strike the and, and it would read or another reference. Second. A motion and a second. Would you like to speak to it? I think it solves the problem you just pointed out of allowing the applicant to choose. This, if they have a supervisor, would have to be included, my reading. And if they don't have a supervisor, they could provide an alternative reference. Okay. Is there further discussion on the secondary amendment? Is there any objection to the secondary amendment? Seeing none, it carries. We're back to the primary amendment. Is there any further discussion on that? Ready to vote. Is there any objection? Okay. We have one objection. Okay. All those in favor of, member Pickering's amendment as amended by member Hickman, please say aye. Aye. All the Point of information. What's your point of information? I didn't, adopt that. I think that was Brooks. Okay. All those opposed, please no. Okay. The ayes have it. The motion passes. Doctor Young. I'd like to make a motion that we adopt the staff recommended amendments. Second. Okay. And to be clear, the motion you're making is to adopt the ones that are highlighted in yellow. Yeah. I'll give everybody a second to, to review those real quick. We have a motion. We have had a second as well. These are mostly technical edits, removing abbreviations, defining abbreviations, correcting grammar inside of the rule. Is there any discussion? Member Brooks. On. Microphone, please. Thank you. Thank you, mister chair. Mister Dempsey, good morning. Morning. For item 10 or 12. I believe it is twelve three. It says a panel for suitability. I I just wanted to ask the parliamentarian, did we remove political affiliation? Or I thought that was removed because it's still here. Panel Member member Brooks, I'm not sure your question is germane to the motion on the floor. Yeah. Because that's a I I believe the board took that out if I We're we're currently working on, the motion on the floor refers to everything highlighted in yellow. Thank you. Member Heckman. Colin, when you went through, does the quality reviewer, suitability reviewer c and e, do those buckets fit everything below them? In other words, were there any problems? Okay. No. You you had the right cut line there that there the proper rules apply to the proper sections as formatted and Okay. Evidence. Just trying to help, not cause problems. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. K. Is there any further discussion? Ready to vote? Could you give it just another minute? Doctor Belmetro is putting her teacher eyeballs on it. I sure see. Real quick. Thank you. K. I'm seeing two thumbs up from doctor Belmetereau. Wow. Wow. It's like it's like a gold star. Okay. Ready to vote? Is there any objection? Seeing none, it carries. Miller Brooks, would you like to ask your question now? Thank you. I would. So mister Dempsey, for for that and and and I don't know if the parliamentarian could help us with this, but I thought that the the the board had voted to remove on this item, 12 section three subsection three where it says, a panel for suitability review consists of three reviewers and shall reflect the political affiliation of the membership of the SBOE. So if I may offer an assist to the staff, I've put on the screen, my contemporaneous notes that that we took as we were going through it. There was a motion to strike out and shall reflect the political affiliation of the SBOE that was offered by member Brooks. There was no second, and that motion was not considered. There was then a motion on the same language to insert political affiliation, to insert the words membership of the SBOE, which is reflected in the document from staff. That amendment from member Ellis was adopted nine to five. And I believe that this is an accurate reflection of the contemporaneous notes that we took at the time. Thank you. Would you like to make a motion, member Brooks? I'd like to make one last motion, please Okay. For this item. What's your motion? I move to remove, from item 12 c, shall reflect the political affiliation of the membership of the board. I don't think that makes sense as is. One moment, please. Yes. I so I would I I move to strike out and shall reflect the political affiliation of the membership of the SBOE. Second. Can I have a motion and a second? Would you like to speak to your motion, member Brooks? I just know that in order for a question like this to go on in application just seems to be, private. And, again, it's not about a political affiliation with our children. It's it's really a black and white suitability rubric. We want the applicants to follow the suitability rubric without invoking a political affiliation period. It's just following what the rubric is is asking them to look for in the instructional materials. Understood. And if you, just make sure everybody's caught up on the discussion from whatever night we discussed this earlier this week, they all run together. But that was not the intent of this, and we made the amendments to adjust it. And we were clear that the application should not ask for the political affiliation of any individual applicant. The language is intended to, depict how the three member suitability group is composed based on the membership of this board? Doctor Balmara. I think that that phrase simply injects a dispute where there doesn't have to be a dispute. We do best when we figure out what we have in common rather than what separates us or delineates us, and so I I don't I think that that should be deleted. And I would argue very strongly that it it might even be illegal for us to have that kind of phrase in our in our standards. Is there a is there a certain portion of it that you believe is illegal and can reference how that would be so? Because I've been unaware of anything up to this point. And it was also in the text for first reading. I'm commenting on it now, though. My my point is it's been out for comment for a while, and I I would hope that if somebody knew something like that, that they would have pointed it out, and TA legal has reviewed this as well. Member Francis, the member hall. Thank you, chair McKenzie. I just wanted to reiterate for, members and our public listening and our public that have joined us today, this this amendment in no way, requires applicants to share their political affiliation. We're not interested in that. What we do know is that based on the political balance on this board, it needs to the the members that are composed, that three members, you have to use something to compose the members, a measure. And I think this is the most fair measure based on the fact that we're representing portions of Texas, and they expect that there is some representation from our districts. And this is how we fairly attribute that composition of the three members for our reviewers. Mister chairman, may I Member Hall. Mister chairman, I believe both sides of this have been, well reflected in the comments we've had so far, so I'd like to call the question. K. We have a motion to call the question. Do we have a second? Second. The motion is second. All those in favor of calling the question, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed? And the question's been called. The question is member Brooks' amendment to strike the language that was recommended by the Committee of the Full Border this week by a vote of nine to four. Ready to vote? So if you wanna keep the language, you should vote no. If you want to strike it, you should vote yes. Alright. All those in favor, please show by raising your hand. You should vote yes if you would like to strike the language. Six. Thank you. All those opposed, please show by raising your hand. Eight six eight. The motion fails. No further amendments. Okay. We're ready to vote on the main motion as amended. All those in favor of the main motion as amended, please show by raising your hand. Eight. All those opposed, please show by raising your hand. Four eight four, the main motion passes. Okay. The next item is instructional materials review and approval cycle 2025 update, agenda exhibit I dash 13. Vice Chair Little. Mr. Chair, the committee of the full board recommends to the State Board of Education that they adopt the instructional materials review and approval cycle 2025 list as compiled by the committee of the full board. Okay, you've heard the motion which comes from the committee, does not need a second. This is the list that we took hours to compose. Thank you for all your patience and work on that. I got a point of information, Chairman. Which point of information? Chairman, did we have a final list to see? Oh, it's coming. Member Francis. Okay. Sure. Could we have a moment to review, please? Yes. To answer your question, just for the record, it's been passed out now. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman, I have a point of information. Which point of information? Chairman, could we ask staff? There's 250 Six. Yes. I'm I'm getting there. There's 250, materials listed here. Could we know the other six, please? Is that coming on the screen, or is it another paper that I'd like to review? Members, we, compiled this list early early this morning, and, the it has a list of 250 as you'll see. There are six items missing. That list is getting reprinted. We're about to email you the Excel version of this that you can filter and sort and look for any products that you want to see. But the total count is 256 products. The that includes anything that was in the one bucket, anything that was in the two bucket that was not removed, and then any products that the board by majority vote decided to include onto the list. And so this list is filtered, by publisher name. Being number two fifty six does not mean it's 256 on the list. That's just an alphabetical order of publishers, and then filtered by the program title and then filtered by English and Spanish. So you should be able to see side by side if there is a product, where you wanted to ensure that both the English and Spanish language were there, that should be visible on this list. And so, please check your Outlook email for, the Excel version of this, which will have, the the six items that I missed on my original list, which were math. A product from six products from Accelerate Learning around STEM scope. So if you don't see those, those are the six that are missing, and we'll have that list you here momentarily. Thank you for your patience as we threw that together. Member Hickman, what was your count last night? It was two fifty seven, and that was the same count we had with staff. So I struggled all night, but at the very end, miraculously, it came together at 257. Now I'm troubled to hear 256. Do you know what the difference was? Yes. There was a double count of a hand to mind product, where the publisher submitted a range of things, and the second grade product was counted twice, and that was your one extra. I've also struggled till late in the evening to find that. So 256 total, if you remove that extra hand to mind, second grade product. It was a double count of the identical product. I have a point of information, Chairman. Which point of information? Chairman, I, I got on this list a hand to mind product, and there was I I'm just trying to verify that there was two products with the same name, but the intended grade level was different, the math product. We're not talking about that. Correct? Correct. This was, if you go to the hand to mind section on the new list that you now have, that includes all 256. Thank you. In the email correct? Oh, passed out. Oh, wait. Just passed to you. Alright. This will be page three. Okay. And, the product that was counted twice was row one fifteen, phonemic awareness and phonics toolkit two. We we had a double count of that identical title for second grade. Okay. Thank you. K. If you are still reviewing, can you give me a sign? Okay. Pause for a few more months. Member Maynard. Steph, could you look at, lines two seventeen and two eighteen? And then oh, never mind. Okay. That's English and Spanish. That's why that that's why they look like they're duplicates. Yes. So freckle math is in English and in Spanish for all of that those grade levels. So you'll see double rows for the title. There you go. Okay. I see it down. Okay. Mister chairman. Member Hegeman. Colin, is it was the double count hand to mind phonemic awareness and phonics toolkit intervention foundational skills too? Line one thirteen or one twelve? Because I see that one twice on our list. Yes. That was that was the one. Apologies. Okay. The number is balanced. Thank you. Okay. If you're still reviewing, give me a sign. Do we have any amendments? Member Maynard, do you need a moment? I I didn't understand. Okay. Member Mainer is still reconciling with staff, so we'll pause for just a moment here. Thank you. I I sent you the wrong one. I'm doing that right now. But now that I'm actually on the Internet. Doctor. Balmedro? I I would like to ask a a question, a point of information. During our discussion yesterday, I it was my understanding that some of these texts were being placed on the list for review in order for the public to be aware of what was wrong or not effective about the text, not that we were giving a stamp of approval to every text on this list. Is that correct? Yes. These are going to be reviewed. We have not reviewed these yet. We're just moving these to priority number one on the prioritization, list that we agreed to with the agency and approved a meeting last year. And and that that means that sometimes because of market share, the number of schools that are using these that that it's significant for us to examine these texts. Yes. So, priority number one on that list is something the SBOE, basically directs the agency to review as part of the process. Number two was not applicable in this, and the criteria for number three is based on market share. So conceivably, if we don't make decisions on this, so we go to priority three with any excess capacity the agency has after we give them this list. Thank you. You're welcome. Member Childs. We've noticed that one of the products would add was added to the list in Spanish but not English. So may I make a motion to add one of the pro the English version of one of the products? It would be in order at this time. Okay. Just a second. I don't I don't have the the document to to add at this point. No problem. I'm getting it. They would be in order, but we're not ready. No problem. Yes. Okay. Times ten fifty one. Let's, take a nine minute break and come back at 11:00, top of the hour. Stand at ease. Okay. It's 11:00. Top of the hour. Are we ready? Yes. K. I believe we have a motion that was made by member child. Did we have a second for that motion? Second. Okay. We have a second from member Maynard. Member Childs, would you like to speak to your motion? Yes. We have the Renaissance Learning Products Freckle for Math k through six in Spanish. We have the Renaissance Learning products, Freckle for math k through five in English. So it is my intent to make sure they're reviewing all the products, all the grades, English and Spanish. So I'm asking for one more product to be added that is not reflected on the newest list. The chair is requesting a brief history lesson from the week. We went from, 200 and something to 500 and to 500 to five fifty, and we're back down to 200 and something. So, we'll be here for a while if this grows too expansive. And, that's just a reminder of where we've been this week. I understand. Member Hickman. Mr. Chairman, I spoke with the member and the intent last night was to add K-six for English and Spanish. I'm supporting this as I see this kind of a clerical error of the motions and the list and the confusion and the many hours. I am not in favor of adding new materials or considering new materials today, but I think this is consistent of adding K-six in English and Spanish. And I understand that was the intent last night. It's a consistency thing. To be clear, I'm not speaking in opposition. I'm just reminding us where we've been. Thank you, Chair. Doctor. Ellis. I agree with mister Hickman on this is I would frame it as a clerical error. I think it I don't think it was staff's fault. I think it was our fault for not not making sure that got on there. This is one product. It's my intention to support this one, but not to open this back up for I've still got others that I'd like but not open it up anymore past that. So I'm gonna support this one and that's that's all I'm gonna support. Thank you. That's my intent as well. Member Francis? Chairman, is there any other member that have clerical errors? I just wanna know. I'm looking over to member Maynard because I know are you taken care of? Okay. Thank you, chairman. Good. Any further discussion? Ready to vote. Is there any objection? Seeing none, motion carries. Mr. Truman. Member Francis. I call the question. We have a motion to call the question. Do we have a second? Second. Motion is second. Is there any objection to calling the question? Seeing none, the question has been called. All those in favor of the main motion as amended, please show by raising your hand. 12. Thank you. All those opposed? 12, zero. The motion carries. We're back to two fifty seven. At 257. Thank you. Member Hickman. Okay. On item number six, proposed new night Just call the question. Oh, no. No. We did the I called the question without objection. We just voted on the main motion as amended. I'm getting better at speeding us along. Item number six, local review of classroom instructional materials. Proposed new 19 TAC chapter 67 state review and approval of instructional materials. Subchapter c local operation. Sixty seven sixty nine local review of classroom instructional materials. First reading and filing authorizations in your agenda exhibit I dash 17 member Little. Mister chair, the committee of the full board recommends to the State Board of Education that they approve for first reading and filing authorization proposed in 19 TAC chapter 67, state review and approval of instructional materials, subchapter c, local operations, section 67.69, local review of classroom instructional materials as amended. Okay. You've heard the motion which comes from a committee and needs no second. Is there any further debate on the pending motion? Member Francis. Mister chairman, I have an amendment. What's your amendment? My amendment is coming on the screen, miss Kaye. Thank you. I could not see it. Okay. Member Frank, can you read it into the record, please? Yes, chairman. Chairman, this creates a new subsection, b, which reads a school district or open enrollment charter school is requested to notify the state board of education member representing the district or charter school at the member state email address as listed on the s b o e dot texas dot gov website within one week of a decision to approve a parent request for local classroom review and one week after receiving the final report. Second. And we have a motion and second. Would you like to speak to your motion? Yes, chairman. An advice from my colleagues, I the two things, I lessen the burden on school districts, and this serves as a request instead of a shall. Okay. For further debate? Member Pickering? Mister chairman, I'd like to offer a secondary amendment. What's your amendment? For it to say notify all State Board of Education members because a few of us share districts. A few of us wrote a school district can have multiple SVOE members representing them. Do we have a motion? Do we have a second? I'll second it. A motion and a second. Do you like to speak to your secondary MMO? Mister chairman, I think I just did. Thank you. Mister chairman? Yeah. It says the same thing. Yes. Member of childs. Our, point of information. What's your point of information? Are tertiary amendments in order? No. Okay. We could make this and we could get back to another do we have friends that you could make amendments with? Yes. I'm just I don't like the language if requested. I would just ask if the maker of the motion would consider the word encouraged because requested kinda confuses me. That's not this amendment. Sure. Oh. Yeah. We we'd have to get there Okay. Next one. So right now, we're only in the green. I'm gonna come to, member Hall, Ellis, Hickman, Francis. This is a question for the maker of the secondary amendment, and this may be I mean, it's because I'm new. But is there but it sounds like a lot for them to have to email every SPOE member, but I'm I'm tracking with what you're trying to do. And so I was wondering, is there a way like, is there a SPOE support email address we can say to send it to and then they forward it out to everybody, or is there a way to make that easier on the school or district just so they'll actually do it? Mister chairman, mayor Scott. Member Picker. Thank you, mister chairman. So, Member Hall, I think in our larger districts, maybe at most, it would be three SVOE members who would represent a particular district. I, could be wrong, but I don't think that our larger districts, we have more than three members represent. So they would just where it says all State Board of Education members representing the district or charter school. So they would just need to send it to the one, two, maybe three people who represent their district. I I was yeah. It was an oversight on my part, not reading the representing part correctly. So thank you. Yes. Thank you, member Hall for your comments. Doctor. Ellis. Member Heckman. I have a suggestion for the maker of the motion of this secondary amendment would be to keep to notify the State Board of Education members and the s put in parentheses. And that's a common way I've seen where it could refer to a single member or multiple members representing the district. I don't know if that captures your intent. I will defer to the parliamentarian for guidance on this. I that was actually my first thought too. So, yes, I I think that if you'd like to do that, that is Then, mister chairman, I'd like to withdraw my secondary amendment and replace it with this suggestion. So you'd like to restate it? Yes, sir. Is there any objection to the restatement? Seeing none, it's restate it. I have a point of information. What's your point of information? I would like to restate my original motion after concurring with colleagues. You you it's not an order right now. I'll have to deal with the secondary amendment and then come back to it. Could I speak that was next after mister Hickman. Could I You are, could I be recognized? Are recognized. Yes. Thank you, chairman. So I heard some good points, and I just want to address them, one by one. I guess to miss miss Child's point, First time I offered this amendment, it had shall. I asked legal to Point of order. What's your point of order? I don't think he's talking about the secondary amendment. Sustained. Singular or plural member? I will talk about that. Chairman, I think that we should mister Hall made a good point, and I want to restate my motion to say the SPOE support. So they just send it to one email address. Say, if the member Point of order. Would withdraw our secondary motion. What's your point of order? He's not referring to the green highlighted text in the secondary amendment. Member Francis, anything that we're discussing right now has to be the secondary amendment. Can I call the question? I'll pass this and then you can do it anyway. Oh, she said okay. I was gonna call the question. I was like, you just get her re call it. Okay. Member Francis, do you have anything on the green? No, chairman. I'm good. Thank you. Okay. Member Hall. With the I would like to ask the maker of the secondary amendment if she would like to withdraw her amendment to clear the floor for the first amendment. Mister chairman, I, do not want to withdraw my amendment because I think where member Francis is wanting to go, where he's intending to go, I think this complements it. I don't think this will be in contrast to it. I think this complements where he's wanting to get to. Understood. I've also reminded by this first reading. So we we do get another two shots at this in the committee and in the board Can I get at a subsequent meeting? Member Hall, I'll come back to you, member Hegman. I'd like to call the question, mister chairman. Motion to call the question. Do we have a second? Okay. It's not debatable. Is there any objection to calling the question? Seeing none, the question has been called. That's the green as depicted on the screen. Is there any, is there any objection to the secondary amendment in green on the screen? Seeing none, it is approved. We're back to the primary amendment as amended. Is there any further debate? Ready to vote? Is there any objection? Seeing none, it's approved. Mister Chairman? Member Hagman? I have an amendment to 6,769. The portion in red on our page in paragraph one, that the board considers such petitions at the regular board meeting insert that allows proper posting prior to immediately. Point of information. What's your point of information? If the if it's a regular meeting chair, they have to follow Thomas. So they would have to it would have to be when it's properly posted. So I think that we're adding words that we don't need. I think he's gonna make sure. We got we have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. We have a motion and a second. Would you like to speak to it, member Hegeman? I would. Thank you. I spoke with, staff and legal, and my concern is if we have a petition filed on a Monday afternoon and the board meeting is Monday night, the language in red on our sheet would require the board to consider that Monday night even though it's not in their agenda, it hasn't been posted, the public doesn't have time, the board doesn't have time. So this is adding in the protection that the school board would have to, would have the time to take into account their normal Board operating procedures to, review this petition and add it to their agenda. I would like to No remainder. And, mister chairman, this was actually written with with that in mind. Mhmm. And this is, of course, is referring to a policy that they would adopt. And the words provided that it is submitted by the prescribed submission deadline would take into account whatever their preparation timeline is and their and their posting requirements is for their board meeting. That was the intent of it. Member Perez, yes. So, just for clarification then to member Maynard's point with the proposed language now, just create redundancy within the text? Okay. It's further to pain. I'm ready. K. Ready to vote? All those? Well, last slide in the green was the secondary amendment. And so okay. So we're ready to vote on the language in green on the screen, which is primary amendment. All those in favor of member Hickman's amendment, please show up by raising your hand. Five, six. Thank you. All those opposed, please show by raising your hand. Three six three. The amendment passes. Further amendments? K. Back to the main motion. All those in favor or y'all ready to vote on the main motion? All those in favor of the main motion as amended, please show by raising your hand. 12. Thank you. All those opposed, please show by raising your hand. 12. The motion carries. Item number seven is proposed amendment to 19 TAC chapter 74 curriculum requirements, subchapter a, required curriculum 74 dot three, description of required secondary curriculum, second reading and final adoption agenda exhibit I dash 48. Vice chair Little. Mister chair, the committee of the full board recommends the State Board of Education to postpone to the April second reading and final adoption of the proposed amendment to 19 TAC chapter 74 curriculum requirements subchapter A required curriculum section seven-4.3 description of a required secondary curriculum. Okay. You've heard the motion which comes from a committee needs no second. Is there any debate on the pending motion? All those in favor, please show by raising your hand. 12. Thank you. All those opposed, please show by raising your hand. 12. The motion carries. K. The next item is proposed new 19 TAC chapter one twenty seven, Texas essential knowledge and skills for career development and career and technical education. Agriculture, food, and natural resources, business marketing and finance, health science, hospitality and tourism, information technology, and law and public service. This is second reading and final adoption. It's It's in your agenda exhibit page I dash 54. Vice chair Little. Mister chair, the committee of the full board recommends to the State Board of Education to postpone action on proposed new 19 TAC chapter one twenty seven, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Career Development and Career and Technical Education, Subchapter C, Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources, Section 127.59 and Section 127.61 subchapter f, business marketing and finance, section 127.262 and section 127.263, subchapter j, health science, section 127.51 and section 127.511, subchapter k, hospitality and tourism, sections 127.569, one hundred and 20 seven point five seven one, and 127.604, Subchapter m, information technology, section 127.689 through section 127.691 and section 127.695 through 127.699 and subchapter n, law and public service section one two seven point seven seven three, to a subsequent meeting as determined by the chair not later than April of twenty twenty five. K. You've heard the motion which comes from a committee needs no second. Is there any further debate on the pending motion, mister chairman? Mhmm. Member Perez Diaz and then member Hickman. This is just a point of, clarification. As a just to remind me because we've done a lot, this was postponed as a result of, some debate on the employability aspects of this. Okay. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you. Member Hickman. Mister chair, I'd like to amend the motion to read 04/11/2025, which would be the Friday of our next State Board of Education meeting. It currently reads April 2025. Okay. Motion and a second. I got a point of information. What's your point of information? I don't understand the amendment. I thought we were supposed to be meeting before the April meeting. Yes. Technically, under the amendment that came out of the committee, it says not later than April, April of twenty twenty five, which implies that it could be as late as April 30. And I believe the amendment is constraining that to no later than April 11. And if the in favor, mister chair? Just one second, please. Do you understand now? Understand the your words that you listed, chairman, But I'd like to hear from you if that constrains your timeline. I thought because you asked you remember you asked me in the motion for as much latitude as possible. So, just checking. Okay. I'm going to let him speak to his motion, and then we'll get this in the general debate. Okay. I have information, Mr. Chair. Can I speak, Mr? Chairman? Let me address the point of information real quick. What's your point of information? Thank you, mister chairman. I just, if we can recall, I believe Monica testified to us that the actual timeline is that we have to have a decision by June of twenty twenty five. Is that correct? So I think you're referring to, I I mentioned the expiration of the rule was was June. You're correct. Okay. Thank you. Member Hickman. Thank you, mister chairman. I think the intent of the motion from a few days ago was to pick these up again, not later than our next State Board of Education meeting. So this amendment is clarifying our next State Board of Education meeting would be on Friday, April 11. We could pick it up then, or if the chair would like, he could schedule a meeting anytime prior to that. I think the chair pointed out just having April would allow us to do this by April 30, which I don't think was the intent of our motion. Okay. Is there further debate? Right to vote? Is there any objection? Without objection, the motion carries. The next item is, proposed new 19 TAC chapter 111, Texas essential knowledge and skills for mathematics. Point of order. We just passed the amendment, mister chairman, but we haven't passed the main motion. Oh, thank you. We'll postpone. Thank you. We'll go back to the main amendment the main motion as amended. So this is including April 11. Are there any further amendments? You're ready to vote? Is there any objection? So seeing none, the main motion as amended has now passed. Now we're on to the next one. That was the first time I've gotten caught speeding today. It's much improved since 2024. The next item is proposed new 19 TAC chapter 111 Texas essential knowledge and skills for mathematics, subchapter B, middle school, section 111.29 through 111.31. First reading and filing authorization is in your agenda exhibit I-one 22. Vice Chair Little. Mr. Chair, the committee of the full board recommends to the state board of education that they approve for first reading and filing authorization proposed new 19 TAC chapter one eleven, Texas essential knowledge and skills for mathematics, subchapter b, middle school sections one one one point two nine through sections one one one point three one. Comes from the committee. You've heard the motion. Doesn't need a second. Are there any amendments? Yep. K. See no amendments. Carry a vote. All those in favor, please show by raising your hand. 11. Thank you. All those opposed? Zero. 11 zero. The motion carries. I didn't see the second time. Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Next item on the agenda is engineering takes from 19 TAC chapter one twenty seven. Vice chair Little. Mister chair, the committee of the full board recommends the State Board of Education to suspend the operating rules to consider separate separate to consider separate employability standards for first reading and filing authorization at this next state board of education meeting. Okay. You've heard the motion which comes from a committee. Is there any debate? Member Brooks? Point of information. What's your point of information? So just to clarify what this motion is asking is to postpone it due to the eligibility skills, but not the motion that was, left on the table until Friday. Is that correct? Will we do that, or is that going to be postponed until the next time we come back to this item? I don't understand your question. So member Pickering had asked for a motion where this was separated. There was a course that was separated from the remaining courses in this, and there was a motion left on the table. And and it was discussed that we could not, vote on that motion until Friday. So given the postponement for the eligibility skills, how does that change today? Working on the citation of the operating rule that we're suspending. I'll tell you what the operating rule says while we find the citation. What the operating rule says, we typically do discussion, first reading, and then second reading. So what we're doing right now is suspending the rules so that we can come to first reading next time for the employability standards. So so for clarification, you're saying that we will resume where we left off on this item for Wednesday at that time after I'm not saying that at all. Okay. So when do we have the opportunity to discuss this motion as it is written before the, the rule changing, what we're doing right now? So All we're asking we're attempting right now is to suspend the operating rules so that we can come back next time, like we talked about. Five point it's operating rule 5.2 a. And that's going to allow us to come back next time and go directly to first reading on employability standards. Once we, deal with this motion, then we're gonna go to the TEKS that you have probably in front of you. At that meeting? In about somewhere between one and twenty seven minutes. Oh, today. Thank you. Okay. Is there any further discussion? So we have one objection to spending operating rules. Also, all those in favor of the motion to suspend the operating rules, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed, no. Okay. The ayes have it. Motion carries. Vice chair Little. Mister chair, the committee of the full board recommends to the State Board of Education that they approve for first reading and filing authorization proposed in '19 TAC chapter one twenty seven, Texas essential knowledge and skills for career development and career and technical education, subchapter I, engineering, sections one two seven point four zero two through one two seven point four one nine, section one two seven point four five two, and section one two seven point four five three as amended. Okay. You've heard the motion, which comes from the committee. It doesn't need a second. Is there any further debate on this? Member Brooks. Thank you. So I wanted to start where we left off with member Pickering's motion. So we couldn't get to that motion the day of that we do you have maybe member Pickering can speak to them. There's no motions pending right now. So we wrapped up all the business. But if you would like to make a motion right now, this would be the time. Member Hickman. I have an amendment. Let's just, I'll come to you for your amendment. Just wait till Kaye gets back, please. Okay. Thank Member Hickman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to amend, it's on page two, d one h and I, I would like to combine. D one h, importance of meritocracy and hard work ethic in the workplace. I would like it to read, identify the importance of meritocracy, comma, hard work ethic, comma, and equal opportunity, and then strike I. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Yes, ma'am. I sorry. H would read identify importance of meritocracy, comma, hard work ethic, comma, and equal opportunity in the workplace, and then strike I. Mister Hickman, you may wanna include because this language appears in multiple other courses to make this as a Yes. Forming. That was my intent. Thank you. Second, miss Kaye. Second. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Okay. The motion is depicted on the screen. Would you like to speak to it? Sure. Just efficiency of words and taking out a strand and combining into the two. The existing H and I to me look very parallel and just moving the concept of equal opportunity from I into H and combining it into one strainer. Member Pickering? Mister Chairman, I have a question for staff concerning this amendment. Monica? By combining the strands, does it dilute the strand? Or is it more impactful if it's a standalone? I don't think so. So by combining these two student expectations, the other piece of this is we then take student expectations and we break them into their component parts. So thinking about, instructional materials, it's based on the component parts of a student expectation. So each one of those pieces would still have to be addressed whether it's in one student expectation or two. Okay. So just to clarify, by combining this into one for clarification on language, it does not dilute it. No, ma'am. Okay. Thank you. Through the chair, could I offer a secondary amendment? What's your secondary amendment? For it to read to identify the importance and benefits. I believe those are two different concepts. And by eliminating, I, we would be not addressing the benefits part of it. The maker of the primary amendment would like to restate it. That's correct. K. The importance and benefits. Is there any objection to the restatement? Yeah. That's a great idea. Is there any objection to the restatement? Seeing none, it's restated. Are there further amendments? Okay. Ready to vote? Is there any objection? Yes. Okay. We have objection. All those in favor of the amendment, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed? Unanimously carried. Thank you. There are further amendments. Does miss Little have another motion? So you divided the environmental engineering course? No. We do you're talking about from the other night? When did we divide the question? Yes. The other day. So the the But we voted on both those. The the motion with these course numbers did not include that course. Oh, parliamentary inquiry. What's your point of parliamentary inquiry? I was just curious as that if if, if it's if it's posted altogether, we divided it in in committee. Is it still divided when it comes out to as a recommendation to the board? That was about to be what I was gonna figure out, member Maynard. But So, chairman, what missus Little read was from the minutes for, 04/2002 through, 04/2006, and it I don't think it included for, 01/2007. Well, I'm reading here. It says '1 '2 '7 point '4 zero '2 through 01/27 point '4 '1 '9. Okay. That's what you read? Uh-huh. Okay. Then we're fine. That's what that's what's written for me to read. Okay. Okay. Mister chairman. Member Baker. Thank you. I have an amendment. What's your amendment? It is mister chairman? Member Pickering? Just need a point of clarification. Is 127 4 1 5 in this also? Yes. Okay. So in 127 Dot 4 1 5, section d. If you can pull that up on the screen, please, it'd be very helpful. Where is d would you like to go? 18 a and b. I moved to strike a and b. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Would you like to speak to your motion? Mister chairman, I think we talked about this quite a bit, late into the night. My days are kinda running together like yours, so no. So I think we've already discussed this at length. Okay. Is there further discussion for anyone else? Ready to vote? Mister chairman. Member Hay. Sorry. I was slow. Can I speak against? Sure. Too late. So you can. Yeah, sustainability just means something can last a long time. There is a context of sustainability about environmentalism. There's also a context in civil engineering of sustainable you want to make a sustainable building that will last a long time. So sustainability here is not just talking about environmentalism, but talking about building a structure that will last. That's a sustainable building and it has nothing to do with environmentalism. So I don't want that concept which is critical to civil engineers of building something that will last to be taken out of these standards. Mister chairman, ma'am. Member Pickering. Thank you, mister chairman. Actually, this section does deal with environmental. If you look at the heading and you look at the, subsequent standards that follow, this absolutely does have to do with environmental sustainability. If Member Hickman? If member Hickman would like to place this in another area that doesn't talk about environmental sustainability, well, then maybe we can entertain that motion, but this section does. Member Hickman, I can see that environmentalism is a part of sustainability. What I'm pointing out is another part of sustainability is something that lasts. I think that's captured in the built environment. The built environment is the buildings, built and built. So a building that lasts is part of sustainability. Yes, sir. Would, member Hickman like to explain to me then how on, building lasting affects global communities? Because, the way I read this and on the way I read this entire section is that it it specifically says environmental impact. So this absolutely is about environmental. And like I said, member Hickman would like to make a motion to, change this where it doesn't affect environmental suitability or where he wants to add it to a different section, I'll be more than happy. But this absolutely is environmental suitability. Member Perez, yes. I move to call the question. Okay. We have a motion and second to call the question. All those in favor of calling the question, please show by raising your hand. 10. Thank you. All those opposed? Zero other questions been called. So And just making sure with I've got my color coding correct on the screen. So the amendment that we're about to vote on is to strike all of a and b. So everything in the red depicted on the screen. Any questions? K. All those in favor of member Pickering's amendment to strike, please show by raising your hand. Five. All those opposed, please show by raising your hand. Nine five nine. The amendment fails. Okay. So I've received mister chairman. Excuse me, member Pickering? Point of information. What's your point of information? At what point would it be appropriate to provide guidance to publishers of what we don't want? We'd I don't want this. SPO E7 does not want this to translate into the UN two thousand and thirty goals being put into our curriculum. I think, let me get there in just a second. Thank you. Come back to so I've had a few questions about where we are, what the motion was. We talked about this a second ago. So the we had two motions in this item so far, two main motions. One was to suspend the rules. That was related to just the employability standards. We've already taken care of that. This the main motion that's on the floor right now is for this entire packet of courses. There's some confusion because the other night there was a motion to divide the question and to break those out into two. They've come back together. Thank you. I can't see it, so I wouldn't know. But, thanks, mister Mainer. It's like you know your who your friends are when they tell you you have something in your teeth. Everybody else lets you walk around. So the other night, we divided the question. We divided out one course separate. Both those came together. So the main motion out of the committee that member Little made has all these courses in together for first reading. Is that clear with everybody? Mister chair, point of information. What's your point of information? Maybe parliamentary inquiry. The conforming edit I just made to the employability standard would be included in environmental engineering as well. Yes. Yes. Okay. Because it's all part of the main motion. That's what I'm trying to to clarify real quick. And this is first reading for all of these. Yeah. Chairman, I I think there was also just some confusion. So first reading as in this will go out for public comment, and then we'll be back on your agenda in April. And I think there was confusion about that as well. That is correct. Are there further amendments? K. Ready to vote on the main motion? K. All those in favor of the main motion as amended, please show by raising your hand. 13. Thank you. All those opposed. One thirteen one. The motion carries. This concludes the items of the business of the business from the Committee of the Full Board. Vice Chair Little, do you have any other items to report? No, sir, I do not. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is report a committee on instruction. Congratulations to Doctor. Audrey Young on her reelection as chair of the Committee on Instruction. Thank you very much. We on the Committee on Instruction, I want to welcome our new members, new member Gustavo. Thank you for joining us on the Committee on Instruction. And I want to welcome back Doctor. Belmetro, who was with us, the first year we both came on the board and is now back to what I say is the best committee, to be on. We went through a number of items in our committee efficiently and effectively. And although, we're usually the first ones to get finished, I heard PSF got finished before we did for the first time ever. But anyway, if you have any if you have any questions, you're certainly welcome to ask me, but we, made it through and, are continuing to do our best to serve the students of Texas. Thank you. Thank you, Doctor. Young. Next item is proposed repeal of 19 okay. Doctor. Young, we heard testimony today on Native American and some people mentioned an innovative course. Do you have an innovative course coming or on your agenda or maybe staff could address that? Thank you for asking. That is out of, the scope of what the chair has the capability of doing, and I believe that that is a question for staff. Yes, sir. We have received that application, and it, would be presented to the committee along with the other courses that have been received at the April meeting. Okay. Thank you. And that was there a capacity issue that we didn't get to at this meeting? Was that my understanding? I think it was a recommendation that came from the agency. So the the big change that happened is that the committee on instruction is now reviewing more courses than they had in the past given the number of courses that staff received to review and prepare, in time for this meeting and recognizing that we need to get them, to the committee with plenty of time in advance, we had to divide the courses that were received into two batches. And so, the course that you're asking about, mister Hickman, will be in the next batch, which will be presented at the April meeting. Thank you. Vice chair Little. Monica, this will not affect student or schools being able to offer the course next fall, though. Right? You're correct. You may recall that we generally we typically present innovative courses at three up to four excuse me, two up to three meetings. So we present some in January, some in April. Sometimes if we have any stragglers, we will present them in June. Mhmm. So this is regular course of business, just depending on when we we receive the applications and how quickly we can get through them. They'll appear on when typically, one of those two agendas and then would be available for the, the upcoming school year. I just wanted to confirm for the public that that course will be available for students next school year. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Member Perez. Yes. Thank you, member Little, for making that clarification. I don't know if this is a question for staff, or for, chairman Kinsey, but I don't know if it would be in order at that time to also, make a request a formal request that this, innovative course be considered, for, a text review, or if we would have to wait to make that request for June since it will need to be approved as an innovative course. My understanding of the rules is that staff is to notify the board if there's an ethnic studies course that is approved. And so I think any discussion about a TEKS based course would happen after an, an approval. Okay. Thank you very much. Just trying to understand the timeline. Member Pickering then Hickman. Thank you, mister chairman. I'm not sure if this question goes to you, mister chairman, or if this goes to Stan. Me either. Yeah. I haven't even said it yet. I have so whoever could answer it, I appreciate because, there was a list of about 12 instruct 12 pages of instructional materials from prop twenty seventeen that were recommended by TEA staff for four year contract extensions. And so I don't know if staff or I know miss I know, mister chairman, you have the final signature on those contract extensions. But as those are approved and granted, can the body be updated on which contracts are being extended? So, that is actually not, one of our items our colleagues, I think have left the room. That would be under Colin, but I can go back and ask him to make sure that they provide you all with updates. Okay. And then I have one more question along that because it was in, chairwoman, Young's committee. Is on those contract updates, there have been several new laws passed in Texas concerning instructional materials since 2017. And maybe this is a call in question also. Whenever they sign the contract extensions, are they required to, adhere to all state laws that are current? So I asked that question in committee, twice. It is it is recorded, but the response to that was yes and that it would it is within their contracts and that the final signature would be Chairman Kinsey of those contracts. But my understanding of it is that Chairman Kinsey is not solely responsible in his office as chair for verification of all of this. Right. Just I wanna make sure that's clear all. Okay. But it is it is built within those contracts. So point question number two on that, mister chairman, is who is responsible for verifying that these 12 pages of instructional materials are compliant with all state laws? I don't know the answer to that. I think I know, but I'm, not willing to get out of my skis here. Couple of loggers behind me. Well, so or two. Yeah. The the agency staff will review those contracts for compliance. I don't think that was my question. I didn't I wasn't asking about verification of the contract. I was asking who verifies that the instructional materials are compliant with all state laws as of 2025 because these materials were issued in 2017. So I I guess I would need a better explanation of what you mean by all laws. Is there something specific that you're wanting them to be reviewed for? Yes, sir. That would be, all laws that have been passed and signed by the governor into law since 2017 up to current now, 2025, that affect instructional materials, either what is not allowed or what is required for instructional materials. Could I get a for instance? I can send you a list of such as this, but house bill thirty nine seventy nine, senate bill three, house bill forty five zero nine. I mean, I could go through a whole laundry list of instructional material laws that have been passed since 2017 that we need to make sure that all of our instructional materials, especially because this is a four year extension. So this is gonna take us into the 2029, school year that all instructional materials are fully compliant with state law. These are our public tax dollars paying for these materials, and I want them compliant. I missed the the question. Was it to me? No. It was to the attorneys because they said they would just verify that the contracts were compliant with state law. The contracts are not what we're interested in, and we need the instructional materials compliant with state law. I think, you probably might need to get our support staff Yeah. To return to answer those questions. I think what was before the what was before the committee was the extension of the contracts. So what you're what you're asking is for a rereview of the instructional materials for changes that have happened, since they were adopted. Correct? Okay. Then let me maybe rephrase my question since I don't have support staff here, but I do have two wonderful attorneys here. In the contract extension, is it written into that extension that they must be, that they must comply with all state laws currently. Miss Picker, my understanding is that the contract does say that they must be compliant, and I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt to provide some information. The materials are not rereviewed. There's not a process in place for that. My understanding is that the contract tells them that they need to be in compliance. And then I think if somebody made a determination that they weren't, I believe you have some rules to address that. Okay. So the I guess what I'm getting to, the nuts and bolts of it. Are they grandfathered in to only be compliant with the the laws pertaining to instructional materials as of 2017, Or do they have to is it in their contract that they have to be compliant with all state laws now? I'm not intimately familiar with the contract right now, so I can't answer that. That is something that would have to be dealt with by the folks who have intimate knowledge of those contracts, and I guess should have been raised during committee. Point of order. What's your point of order? Have we been keeping time on this member's questioning? That's, I'm not an attorney. You are. But the word we That's right. Implies all of us. And I can only speak for myself, and I am not. Okay. All of us were a subset of us. How about that? Vice chair Little. Member Pickering, the list of these publishers and products is on page three fifty seven, PDF of our agenda, if you wanted to go look at them. Actually, it's page three forty nine, and it's an attachment. Yes, ma'am. I have a printed copy of it. Thank you. And the the materials I know. What do you Chair. May I be recognized? I didn't know who was talking to me. Doctor Young. The concern is is that the extension of the contract may grandfather in laws that are now not in compliance with current laws as the expectation of instructional materials, is required for students in 2025 versus what they were in 2017. In the committee, we asked specifically if those contracts would have the element in it that the, that they would follow the current laws and ensure that there's nothing in there that is against the law. Now if I apply that same line of thinking to three queuing and curriculums that continue to have it in there, I know that there are school districts that continue to utilize curriculum that has re queuing in it, but they have taken they've quit using that portion of the curriculum. And so these are the things that, I believe Member Pickering is is looking to is seeking to ensure that that is not going to be the case moving forward if these contracts are extended. Well, so like for that example on three queuing, right, that is a prohibition on a school district to use that to implement the TEAC. So that obviously would continue to apply. If the question is would it have to be removed from those materials in order to move forward, I'm not what's that? I don't know that it's being reviewed to and then forced to pull out of that expectation would be on the school district not to use that to comply with the TEKS. So Member Pickering and then Hickman. Thank you. So, back to legal then. You know, we have also new rules or new laws or not rules. They're laws that keep, pornographic images and obscenities Point of order. Instructional materials. And so, What's your point of order? This member has exceeded ten minutes on this item. Okay. In keeping with the tradition of the previous chair, I will sustain that. Okay. Mister chairman, may I have a record of my time? Because I think that member Young and other members also were inside this ten minute window where it was not my time. So can I have a recording of my time, please? The chair does not keep a recording of anyone's time. How was it verified then? So the practice of the previous board and the previous chair was to not keep the time as it's not specified in the operating rules. So if some if a member, raises a point of order, I'll use my best judgment to determine whether it's been about ten minutes. If someone would like to make a motion to grant you further time, this would be an appropriate time to do so. Mister chairman. Member Hickman. Quick question for legal. If there's a contract issued for eight or ten years and year two, the law changes, does the contract have to be canceled, or can those books and materials be used for the remainder of their contract term? Well, the contracts are not canceled after every session. So and that's where where the laws changes. Usually what the what a contract provision will contain is it is on is the responsibility of the publisher to, to comply with all the laws of Texas. Right? So that's what's put in. The difficulty that I think we're facing is that we're talking about this in a very broad sense. So what would be the remediation for something that is now not compliant with law? Well, it depends on what what changed in the law. Right? So if it's I'm assuming you'd be the the older old book would be grandfathered for the remainder of its term. Maybe they could bring to doctor Young's committee amendments to update, but even without those, it would be grandfathered. I think we're only talking about a a new contract or an extension where this could be an issue. Yep. But I had one other question. But the to your point, the extension is what we're talking about Right. Because we have some coming up. Yep. Understood. I have one other question for Monica. I don't know if she's still here. On the innovative courses, any innovative course, does that go discussion first reading, second reading in the committee or it just jumps straight to approval? It jumps straight to approval. Okay. Thank you. Member Hall. Mister chairman, I'd like to make a motion, just because I I do believe there's at least one other member who spoke during member Pickering's time. So and since we don't have a record of her time anyway, I would like to make a motion to give member Pickering more time. Would you like to be specific about how much time would be included in that? I would like to make a motion to give member Pickering one more minute. Can we have a motion to give member Pickering one more minute? Do I have a second? Second. Is there any objection? K. All those in favor of giving member Pickering one more minute, please show by raising your hand. In favor of giving member Pickering one more minute. You're allowed to vote, by the way. Oh, but no. Seven. Thank you. All those opposed? Six seven six. The motion carries. I am gonna time this time. Thank you, mister chairman. Okay. I just I'm actually gonna make this very concise. I'd like to have an opinion from legal if, under contract extensions, do laws exist as of twenty twenty five twenty twenty five apply, or are they grandfathered in under 2017 laws, specifically to contract extensions? Apologies. I was across the street. I'll let legal chime in. But, in those extensions, the standard terms and the attachment C, which are the terms set by this board, are included and have references to updated statutes. Sorry, it just came from. And so when signing that contract extension, publishers are agreeing to the current statute around and '31, and all other applicable laws that that apply to that contract. Thank you, Colin. Okay. Member Brooks. Thank you very much. So in in light of what mister Collins just said, in our Committee, there are updates. And, in those companies, I'm assuming, after they sign their contracts, we'll make those updates. But something that I wanna just mention and and and let resonate in everyone's mind right now is that you have to put yourself in a place of an administrator or a school. And, yes, things have changed, but some of those students are still using those textbooks. So and and and I wouldn't I don't have any data to show how many would be interested in renewing those contracts, but at least giving them the option. Districts know what how the the percent of takes they have to meet for foundational courses, CTE courses, and there should some be some sort of autonomy. Right? So the districts know that even if they're using instruction enrichment in in materials or supplemental materials, they know what they have to do in order to get their students proficient in all of the TEKS so that they can pass their STAAR exam. So this is just simply giving the students the opportunity to keep their books until their administrators and districts phase out of those materials. I think you have to put yourself in their shoes as a teacher, as an administrator, and as a student. And and we, in our committee, we do updates. So if and there's no inappropriate material because I don't believe that this the SVOE before us would say that that's okay to do. And we, again, update those materials. So the new bill, SB three, we we're updating those. The the the TEA is updating those, the materials, and we get those updates every time we come into our meeting. So so instructional materials are constantly being updated. I just wanted to add that in there, but, again, you have to put yourself in place of the school district. K. Are is there any further discussion on the report from the committee on instruction? Okay. The next item is the proposed repeal of 19 TAC, Chapter 130, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Career and Technical Education and Proposed Revisions to 19 TAC Chapter 127, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Career Development and Career and Technical Education First Reading and Filing Authorization. Agenda Exhibit II dash two. Doctor. Young? It's not paying attention. Try that again. It was moved by Ms. Little and seconded by Doctor. Belmedero to recommend that the State Board of Education approve for first reading and filing authorization the proposed repeal of 19 TAC chapter 30, Texas essential knowledge and skills for career and technical education, and proposed revisions to 19 TAC chapter 127, Texas essential knowledge and skills for career development and career and education. It was moved by Ms. Little, seconded by Ms. Reebels, and carried without objection to recommend that the State Board of Education add the program of study level to the introduction to the TEKS for each CTE course. No, it was the first one. Oh, the first one. Was it Okay. It came from a committee. It doesn't need to be seconded. This is the big move. Is that right? Yes. So the big move. Monica and I were talking just before the meeting this morning about this big move and other moves that we've discussed this week. Can you, clear that up for us or at least give a preview so that it makes sense later? Yes, sir. So this is, again, this is the big move where we are taking all of the courses that are in chapter one thirty, moving them into chapter one twenty seven. We're doing a little bit of other rearranging so that all of those courses will live in the same chapter. We were running out of room in one twenty seven. That was what, started this. As part of the big move, there was, a motion in the committee on instruction that we, amend that rule text to include those levels. That was something that you discussed on Tuesday, I believe, Wednesday. So that's language that would be added. And then, this is first reading and filing authorization. So assuming that you have your special meeting to address employability standards, then that's something that we might be able to address here as well. Trying to get all of this to an 08/01/2025 effective date. Okay. Any questions? Discussion? Ray vote. Is there any objection? Without objection, the motion carries. Doctor. Ewing, do you have any other items to report? I don't believe so. Thank you. Next item in the agenda is a report of the Committee on School Finance, Permanent School Fund. Congratulations to mister Tom Maynard on his reelection as chair of that committee. Member Maynard. Thank you, mister chairman. Miss Perez Diaz will continue also to serve as vice chair. And so, on behalf of the Committee of School Finance, Permanent School Fund, move that the State Board of Education adopt the review of 19 TAC chapter 30 administration subchapter b, State Board of Education purchasing and contracts. Good afternoon. Jenna Mattingly, procurement director. Any questions on this? So we've heard the motion comes from the committee, doesn't need a second. Hi, Jenna. Hi. Good to see you again. Hi. Welcome back. Mr. Chairman, this is this is just adopting a rule review that is a standard four year rule review and just approving the rule review. And if I remember correctly, there were no comments on the rule? Correct. No public comments on this. K. K. All those are you all ready to vote? All those in favor, please show or raise your hand. 13. Thank you. All those opposed? One. Motion carries. That's worth noting that Jenna, you know, somebody supposes as Don Mattingly's, you know, the baseball player's, you know, favorite, favorite niece. That's right. She always says the other part. That's right. Thank you. Mister chairman, I just also want to note that the, the permanent school fund, corporation board of directors will meet on February. The board has moved to a a quarterly cadence on meetings simply because that really better fits the, just in terms of the quarterly reporting of the Board, just in terms of the finances. And also actually allows this Board to kind of reclaim a little bit of time on Thursday. We will, make sure that the members of this board receive that information if you want to log in and watch that. We would encourage that. And so we will also have committee meetings on the nineteenth. And so we will be, we have a whole other committee structure. So if you serve on that committee and on that board, you have a lot of extra work. So, the corporation also moved to the new into the new building at 1300 Red River Innovation Tower on the Sixth And Seventh Floors. We had intended to have an open house, next month on the nineteenth, but we've kind of postponed that in indifference to our landlord over there. They have a, they have a big, kind of a big, they've got a they have a sixteenth floor that's kind of a kind of a showcase, and, they're not quite ready to do that on the Sixteenth Floor. And so just in deference to that, we we've kinda kicked that down the road. But I would hope maybe in April, for this board that maybe we could do something over there and and, so everybody could kinda go over there and see the see the new building. And, that's all I have at this time. Okay. Chairman, I have a question for the member. Member Francis. Congrats again, mister Maynard, for your reelection. I I had a quick question. Last year, I believe it was member Brooks. She asked for communication as it regards to the permanent school fund corporation meeting. Your CEO was very rapid in response. He developed communications previous to the request and subsequently. Could could I do ask if you could ask the CEO or staff to forward and I'm I'm not sure if they're forwarded or just on the website, but I I believe my request would be to forward to all members of the State Board of Education after when it's compiled, if that's okay with you. Well, and yes. And and we will I I would just in in deference to this board, it says that, that when we when we post that agenda that we would want you to be privy to that and have the opportunity to log in and watch that. I think it's important. And I think that really that moving to this quarterly cadence and decoupling that particular meeting from this meeting actually gives this board a little more opportunity, to to watch that and engage in that, you know, separate from what we're doing here, and where you can kind of focus on that. You know, I think that, you know, these weeks get so full and is that I think that we sort of get, you know, maybe sort of information indigestion over time. And so I think that that's, I think it's a positive development and really will help this Board to have a better grasp of the work of the Permanent School Fund Corporation. Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I want to be sure we're complying with all the open meetings and posting and so on. Splitting these into two, I'm assuming staff is taken care of because when we met together as PSF and the Committee, it was all done at once. So will now the corporation meetings also be posted and if all 15 of us show up, would that be allowed and sort of quorum and all that sort of thing? When you say it was all done at once, they were two separate meetings that happened on the same day, 2024 and prior. But they were posted in our agenda. Correct? No. The only one that was posted in our agenda was a committee meeting, And then, the corporation has their own posting that they do as a separate entity, but I'll let Monroe Maynard talk about any open meetings, challenges if multiple people showed up. Yeah, I think that, and I would probably defer to legal on that. I think that if, and it's going to be available online, I think that if you showed up as guests and just happened to be in the same place at the same time but not discussing board business, but Von if you want to opine on that. Well, I mean, so that's correct. The open meetings act applies when you are discussing the business that you are elected, to be here. That that being said, whenever you all gather together, it's going to be people will be suspicious that you're not talking about business. So you wanna keep that in mind. But, generally what, what folks can do is if you have a meeting where someone could potentially show up, is you just post it as a courtesy that it is possible that additional members of the board will show up, with the corporation. That being said, the corporation is the one that is handling its posting, for it. And I believe in the past but can't state specifically that they have done that in past. But that may be something to ask the corporation to keep that up if members want to show up. If members of the, anybody on the staff of the PSF corporation is watching, I'll just make that note on the, on the posting. Just just an aside, mister chairman, you know, when you're out and about and and and visiting, the folks who are visiting about the permanent school fund, the the permanent school fund assets that are management currently that we have by managed by the directly by the corporation is somewhere in the neighborhood of about 55,000,000,000. The assets in the royalty program managed by the general end office is somewhere around 6. So if you combine those two and actually, constitutionally, they are the same fund. So the permanent school fund in total is about $60,000,000,000 all all to all in altogether. The reason that's kind of interesting is is that if you if you Google, largest sovereign wealth funds in the world, now there are some really big sovereign wealth fund. But, the permanent school fund is in the top 25 of sovereign wealth funds in the world. So just just just to note. Mister chairman. Member Francis. I almost forgot I had some exciting news that's germane to the permanent school fund. My office and I have been working with the CEO and his team as it regards to internships for college students. And I'm happy to let this board know that we have scheduled two internship, listening sessions in my district, one at Texas A and M Kingsville, one at Texas A and M Corpus Christi, and we're waiting for confirmation from the University of Texas in the Rio Grande Valley. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Maynard, for your service. Next, Committee on School Initiatives. We'll get a report from them. Congratulations to Mr. LJ Francis on his election as the chair of that committee. Do you have a committee report to offer? Yes, chairman. Thank you. Let me, step back. I'm speeding again. Why don't we take up the the order of business first? So the, that we need to work on out of the committee is a review of adoption of proposed amendments to 19 TAC chapter two twenty eight, requirements for educator preparation programs. It's in your agenda on exhibit four dash 27. Mister Francis. Mister chairman, it was moved by miss Clark, seconded by miss Childs, and carried unanimously to recommend that the State Board of Education take no action on the proposed amendments to 19 TAC two twenty eight requirements for educator preparation programs, subchapter A, general guidance, subchapter D, required educator coursework and training, subchapter E, educator candidate clinical experiences, and subchapter F, support for candidates during required clinical experiences. Okay, you've heard the motion comes from a committee, does not need a second. Is there any debate on the pending motion? Member Brooks. Okay, for clarification and information. For clarification and information, there's no action on this. Could you explain what's going on with this, please? So, Ms. Brooks, I think you're referring to the term take no action. When the State Board of Education has review authority over State Board of Educator certifications, before ninety days of, action from the SBEC, the State Board of Education has ninety days to either take no action, which means agree with the changes, or to veto. If we had recommended a veto, this body would have to vote two thirds for the veto to be effective. Does that answer your question? No. So, for today? For today, the recommendation is taking no action. Do we agree with the the the recommendation from State Board of Educator Certification? So, we are voting to approve this today? That's correct. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. That's the effect. That's not the wording. Any further questions or debate? Ready to vote? Member Brooks? Point of information. A void of a vote of yes is to approve this, to to not Vote of yes is to take no action Right. Which is the same, which is a similar effect as approving it. Thank you very much. Okay. All those in favor of the motion to take no action, please show by raising your hand. 13. Thank you. All those opposed? One, thirteen, one. The motion carries. Next item is review of adoption of proposed amendments to 19 TAC chapter two thirty four, military service members, military spouses, and military veterans. It's in your agenda exhibit on page four-thirty nine. Member Francis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it was moved by Mr. Hall, seconded by Ms. Pickering, and carried unanimously to recommend that the State Board of Education take no action on the proposed amendments to 19 TAC, Chapter two thirty four, military service members, military spouses, and military veterans. Okay. You've heard the motion comes from a community needs no second. Is there a debate or discussion? Ready to vote? All those in favor, please show by raising your hand. 14. Thank you. All those opposed, zero. 14 zero. The motion carries. That concludes the items of business from the Committee of School Initiatives. Mister Francis, do you have other items to report on? Yes, mister chairman. Mister chairman, I am pleased to, receive the support of my board members. For chair, I humbly serve with them, and I think I have the best standing committee on the State Board of Education. I'd like to welcome two new members, Doctor. Clark and Mr. Hall. Thank you for joining us. And we have our two returning members, Ms. Childs and Mrs. Pickren. Mr. Chairman, we had two discussion items. And, I'll just briefly summarize what we learned. First item of discussion was from the Department of Authorizing and Policy Division of Charter School authorizing. We learned, we're currently in generation 30, which means it's the thirtieth time we're seeking to approve subtraction the charter schools. Where we are in the timeline, chairman and board, the next step is we're in the external and internal review period. This period will last until April 2025 and the capacity interviews, which is the first touchpoint, if you may, for board members to ask questions, will be between 05/07/2016. We also received, information on the total number of applicants. This generation thirty, twenty five applicants was received. And as of today, we have 21 applicants that will be going through to external review. Remember, external to pass the external review, applicant must score at least 85% of available points to advance to the capacity interviews. Mr. Chairman, we also, received information on the high performing charter entity application. These are charter schools that are deemed by the agency to be of a certain level and caliber that they would apply through a special entity application that was approved by the legislature several years ago. For this cycle, which will be an ongoing cycle, we only have one applicant. Where we are in the timeline is on April 2025 if that one applicant receives a satisfactory, grade in the what we're calling the due diligence period, which is occurring right now. The commissioner of education will make his proposal on February 4, and this body will deliberate and approve or veto on April 2025. Mister chairman, we also received, information from the State Board of Educator Certification. As we know, this body has review authority for rules proposed by that, that body. The next meeting for in 2025 is February 14. So February 14. And I just wanted to point out for my new members that I'm sorry. I didn't during the meeting. But what happens is that, by statute, SBEC is required to send us what we call communication letters. You will get two letters, for each item. And for items that were deliberated, and proposed in December 2024, please expect all members, including, all members of the state board will receive their communication letters on or before February 7. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Greg Mann. I have a question for you, Mr. Chairman. High performing charters, this will be the first applicant we, the State Board, have ever seen. Have you considered whether those would come to the Committee of the Full Board like regular charters or if those would go to the CSI Committee? I'm still, looking at the options, so I'd like to reserve that for a later date. That concludes my report, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Speaking of, charters, with Member Hickman's move over after his service as the chairman of the Committee on School Initiatives and as the charter school liaison, his movement to the permanent school fund, I've appointed L. J. Francis as the charter school liaison. So congratulations to you, Member Francis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Member Brooks. Point of information. Which point of information? Mister chairman, is it possible that before the adjournment of today's meeting, mister Dimcy can tell us how to proceed for the applications they'll be sending to us, over the course of the next few months or two months before we meet again? Does is that something we can ask him offline? Yes. We're gonna get applications. There's gonna be a dashboard. We're gonna fill them out, turn them in. It's the same process, I'm assuming. I would say substantially similar process. No remainder. Mister chairman, just a question for, for chairman, Francis. I think that that number 25, just in terms of the charter school applications, that's about the average of usually what we get, is it not? That's correct, sir. Yeah. So it's kind of seems like we're usually somewhere in the 20s. And so that's kind of right on the seems to be right on the average. And the four that are not going to go through the process, did they withdraw voluntarily or just didn't meet the benchmarks? So, what I understood was 25 applications were received. Three applicants withdraw their applications, so only 22 were assessed in the minimum standard review, which is step one. And one applicant did not, pass that review, the minimum standard review. And this could be application wasn't filled out correctly, they left something out that was substantial, and now, we're down to 21 applicants. All right. Thank you, sir. You're welcome, sir. Okay. Any further questions for the community on school initiatives? This concludes the business of the State Board of Education. However, we frequently take a few minutes to briefly talk about, shortly, a few minutes, educational activities, concerns in our districts, brag about your children, grandchildren, dogs, cats, gerbils, hamsters. So we'll go around the circle. Do you wanna start vice chair a little? I would be happy to, mister chair. First, I wanna start off by thanking my colleagues for, your vote for me to be vice chair. I'm looking forward to this board and working with all of you over the next two years. I also wanna, talk about the one of the most exciting things for me on this board is to be with the students. And last night, doctor Young and mister Maynard and I had the opportunity to attend the career and technology banquet. And it is just warms your heart when you hear those kids talk about what they wanna do, what they've accomplished, and and it's just amazing to me how well spoken they were and and the types of questions that they ask. It was just tremendous. And then, of course, we had a great student performance today. So I think for all of us, that's what we need to remember that we're here for is for the students of Texas. I just wanna thank everyone for the warm welcome. It's been an, a great time, getting to know everyone here and also to, understand better understand the the scope of work that we're doing over here. Wanna, make sure that I represent not just the students, but the educators in my district as well and and, make sure that we do right by them. So I look forward to the next four years serving with with everyone here. Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here with everyone. Yes. I, miss Brooks, am concerned about the dashboard. We have a lot of new people here. Well, three. And I would just like to briefly ask you, mister chair, if it would be alright if if mister Dimcy could kinda just tell us really quickly how to accept our applicants, where to go for our applicants. Is this a time for that or no? No. The time for that was earlier. Much, much earlier. Good afternoon. I want to first thank you all for being welcoming and opening during my first SVO meeting, and I look forward to working with you all through the next two years to accomplish great works for our students in the state of Texas, specifically district date 13. And, to my constituents, I look forward to continuing the work for you all. Thank you. Thank you, mister chairman, and thank you so much to my fellow, members, my colleagues here on the board, and thanks for being welcoming this week. It's been a really eye opening experience, and I'm really excited about the opportunity. I also wanna thank, my constituents back home, the parents, taxpayers, and then of course, all of our great workers in education, our teachers, administrators, and everybody who works so hard to make sure our kids get the education that they deserve. I think this is a new and exciting moment in the state of Texas. Parents are very locked in and engaged, and I think we have some incredible opportunities here at the State Board of Education, to bring Texas to number one in education rankings and to make sure that our kids, get that world class education that they deserve free from indoctrination. And so I'm excited to approve high quality instructional materials, help great charter schools get off the ground, and all the other great work that we do here on the board. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for, thank you to my committee on school finance for your continued confidence in the work that we're doing and then continue to do. Yeah. You know, next year, when when we circle back around on this this meeting next year, I'd encourage all of you to come to the, to the current technical student organization, banquet. I will tell you that I spent seventeen years as executive director for the state FFA. I helped organize that thing. And, along with a lady named Sharon Pierce, who was the, long time executive director for FCCLA. And, I would like to encourage, everyone to, to to come to that next year. And and, hopefully hopefully, maybe our our meeting won't be quite as quite as long on on Thursday on on that Thursday. But, yeah. Thank you everybody for what you do. I mean, you know, people, I will tell you that my wife has been tuning in a little bit, and and she said I I don't remember which day it was. I think it was on Wednesday. She said, I tried to watch, but I fell asleep I fell asleep three times. And, you know, the reality is is the work that we do is is granular. It's tedious. It's arcane, but it's really important. And, you know, all these little words and things, they they they would matter. And, you know, is people say, like, our it'd be, you know, crazy to be on the state board of education. Well, you don't have to be crazy, but it helps. But, I just say, as I begin my fifth term, you know, thank you. And I look forward to working with all of you and, and, to to to do the great work. And and we have a lot of people watching us and and depending on us. And and I think as we get through this legislative session, I think we're gonna have some additional work to do and, look forward to doing it. And, the, you know, that I think we have the opportunity to to do work that, you know, that it's all about, you know, planting trees under whose shade you'll never shed and, doing work that echoes into eternity. And, and I, for one, am thankful for the opportunity to do it and and thankful for the opportunity to work with each each one of you. So that could be our new catchphrase, the State Board of Education better than Ambien. So keeping people awake hopefully. So thank you, chairman, for another great week. Thank you for navigating us through, what is often long and difficult weeks. You've done a great job doing that. These are long weeks, so I do wanna take time to thank my family. I think we all should, our families, for allowing us to, spend the time we are that we do here, and it's for a good reason. It's for our our children and our for our students in Texas, so I wanna do that. But speaking of family, when I mentioned at this time during our November meeting that my daughter was very pregnant and didn't know if I would make the whole week before, she delivered. And so since our last meeting, I now have twin granddaughters, Charlotte and Elizabeth, and, we're very excited to have, both of them with us now. Thank you, Doctor. Hills. I want to welcome the new members to the board. Thank you very much for being here. It was a long week, at the, to respond to Member Maynard's comment that we had long days. Yes, we did because we did not employ the ten minute rule very often. However, this is the only bi week you were going to get for that. So moving forward, expect to hear it often in April. The George grace period. Yeah, that grace period. That's what it is. I, too, want to make an announcement. My Amy Beth and her husband, Jesse, are expecting their first child. We do not know what it is. They are going to wait until birth to find out, but we are so very excited. Baby is due on May 28, and we will officially be honey and peppa. So, thank you for this week and for all the work that you do. I don't know, Mr. Maynard, if I missed it, did you mention that the flowers in front of the ladies yes, were made from the CTE, students. They're beautiful. That is just one demonstration of the great work that those students do and we wanted to ensure that we brought those back. Mister Brandy, do you have some words about that? Yeah. Vandergriff High School, Leander ISD, floral design students. They're beautiful. But we also want to thank Kaye, Lenny, Yolanda, and Monica, as well as the rest of their teams for all the work that they do to continue to support us. I just also want to echo the sentiments of welcoming the new members. We there was a lot of work to do this week. This body has worked very hard collectively and individually. We had over 500 instructional materials to research and deliberate on and recommend to put through our inward process, and that is a huge task that this body, did a great job of rising to the occasion to fulfill. Also, interesting, my children two weeks ago got were able to attend their very first presidential inauguration. And so that was a huge, wonderful, and civics training moment and government training moment for my children. And I just wanna say God bless America, and I hope president Trump and his administration are very successful for all of America. I wanna thank all of the members for getting us out of Austin before rush hour. And I I also want to thank member Pickering for assisting me in, seeing a pathway to getting a Native American studies. This is something that I've been passionate about since I was in college in the late sixties. And I said then, why didn't we ever learn about this in history? And it seems like the same problem is plaguing us that did when I was in high school. So I'm hoping that we can find that path, and I want you to all think about it, for the future. Happy Friday. I just wanted to say member Revelis, member Clark, member Hall, it's been really fun working with you this week. I look forward to the next few years working with you. Some of you know I had the crazy idea of documenting my journey into politics into a documentary called I don't even know me yet. Miss Brooks, I think member of Frances, you may have seen it. It's been selected into 17 film festivals, including one of the most prestigious film festivals here in Texas, the Denton Black Film Festival. We didn't win, but we were one of the five finalists out of probably a thousand documentaries. So I was really excited about that. Tread with caution if you find it on YouTube, if you wanna watch it, if it tickles your fancy. And I just wanna urge chairman if you would please consider putting the Native American studies course on April's agenda. So at at at at the risk of being redundant, welcome to our three new members. It has been a great, meeting. Welcome to the craziness. It's a lot of, in the weeds kind of conversations, but we appreciate, the level of engagement that you all have brought to the conversation. And, I'm just, I I don't have any great exciting stuff happening right now, so I'm just excited to be here. And, and do wanna say I'm really appreciative to, the constituents of District 3 for having reelected me, and putting their trust in ensuring that, you know, that, I will ensure that I continue to be a voice, for the district, and so I'm I'm just grateful for, the continued confidence. Thank you. Francis. Thank you, chair. I would also like to welcome the new members to the board. We've been talking just over several weeks. Feels like I know you guys, a lot already, and I look forward to, learning from you and your expertise. For those who haven't received their official State Board of Education pin on my lapel chairman, and I see mister Hall beautifully wearing his. Please let me know and we'll get one to you. Also, I worked with the Texas legislative council. If you go on those the state board of education's website, please look at your district map and district information. I believe they've told me that there is an update to that, the information that you see. But if there's anything incorrect, please let me know and we'll fix that as well. In addition, we've had several discussions about IMRA twenty twenty five. I would ask that members, would please help, well, ourselves and the agency to recruit reviewers. Applications are now open, and they're open on a rolling basis until February 24 at 11:59PM. So, please post it on your socials and start recruiting if you can. February 24 is the deadline. Thank you so much. I'd like to thank you all for your support as secretary. I look forward to working with all of you and hopefully I can be useful to the board. I'm sorry that I couldn't attend the CTE dinner given our late hour. One of my tablemates from last year saw me again this morning and I really enjoyed those conversations with the students last time. And this week, I was contemplating Psalm 23, yea, though I walk through the valley, we made it to Friday, the sun came out, and, here we are done before sunset. So, thank you for that. Significant improvement. Thank you all for the great week, first week of the new Board. Welcome to the three new members. I'm glad that you all have had a great experience, it sounds like, in your first two meetings here. Whenever you, have the responsibility of leading any kind of organization, you bring together new people, new are building a new team. It's always, interesting to see how that's gonna turn out. I think, I'm very encouraged by the way we work together this week. We made it through a lot of, tough procedural things, a few other tough discussions, but we made it through. And I think, we're better set up on the back end for success and successful '25 and '26. So thank you all. Thank you to my wife for taking care of three sick kids, while I'm here. So I wouldn't be here without her. I'll tell you when I'm gonna see you again, but I don't know because I haven't figured it out yet. But I will see you again, sounds like before April 11, according to the will of the board earlier. So we'll be back. Until then, we'll stand stand adjourned.