Good afternoon. Go ahead and call to order the social studies ad hoc committee of the state board of education of Texas. Today's Thursday, 04/10/2025. I'm the chair, Aaron Kinsey. Other committee members Doctor. Audrey Young, miss Marissa Perez Diaz and miss Julie Pickren. I've asked other members, I know other members were interested, woah, Other members were interested in obviously hearing what the public had to say on this matter as we're going to be taking it up as a full board later in this year. So it allowed them to stay in their desks but please direct your testimony to
the front here where I have all the committee members posted. As many of you know the social studies ad hoc committee was announced on 10/10/2024. This is the first meeting of that committee and today we'll be taking public testimony in accordance with the SBOE operating rules adopted in January. The charge of this committee is to research a social studies framework and make recommendations to the SBOE as many of you are aware, from the charges that we will be making recommendations only at the end of this process. As chair of this committee, I called this hearing, during a week where we had a regularly scheduled board meeting for the state board
of education so that all members would be in town to hear the testimony of the public in regards to this important matter. So obviously we have some urgency in the situation. Data reveals that US Eighth graders, less than one in four are proficient in civics. Only 13% are proficient in US history and these aren't just numbers. They're a warning for the future of our republic. So the time to act is now and this committee is going to kick off that work today. Our schools are not merely institutions for academic knowledge. They're the bedrock of our democratic republic and without a generation that understands and cherishes
American ideals, we risk losing the very freedoms that make this country exceptional. According to the heritage foundation, two thirds of parents and nearly three quarters of teachers share a strong desire to see greater emphasis on civics education and this, also has been legislatively told to us so we will be making sure that we continue to incorporate that. At this point, I'm gonna go ahead and call the testifiers to hear their thoughts on possible frameworks for the state board of education to continue. We have 10, testifiers who were signed up in advance to testify. We've had four late testifiers sign up,
and if there's no objection, I plan to take those testimonies. Seeing none, we will take those testimonies at the end of the 10 who signed up early. Once again as a reminder this committee is charged with framework recommendations only as opposed to specific recommendations for consideration so look forward to your comments on that. Staff please call the testifiers. Yes, good afternoon testifiers. Welcome. Public testimony, I'll remind you of some, just some housekeeping rules. Public testimony is limited to two minutes per speaker. If you will, there's a timer in front of you and the time will count,
down. Once it reaches zero, your time is up. Also, in front of, on mister Kinsey's desk next to the gavel, are three lights. So you'll see green to start, yellow, you means you have thirty seconds left. And when you see red, your time is up. Please take your seat, back, in front of the TV screen. If you have copies of your testimony, please provide that to staff when you're, about to speak. Supporters of a testifier, please do not gather behind the podiums used for testimony. Testifiers are free to use a portion of their testimony time to acknowledge supporters seated
in the audience. And just as a reminder, the board's operating rule says no posters, props, flags, noisemakers or other visual displays are allowed. I'll call the first four. Julia Brookins, Jackie Biesinger, Marie Sontag, Matthew Campbell, Andrea Hutchinson, Bianca Soleica? Julia Brookins? Good afternoon. My name is, my name is Julia Brookins. And I'm senior program analyst for teaching and learning at the American Historical Association, the nation's oldest and largest membership organization for historians. Today, I'd like to draw your attention to a portion of the 's recent research on
US History education that can provide context for this committee. As you can see in your handout, which I also, emailed to members of the committee on February 10, so if you wanna link to the online the full report, it's in there. American lesson plan, teaching US history in secondary schools, visualize the pattern of US history coursework in all 50 states plus the District Of Columbia and analyze features of the common patterns. You can see those graphics in the 50 state landscape under the heading courses of study. The nationwide pattern of what US history courses,
k 12 students encounter and when is that students typically have coursework in state history in k through four and US history in fifth grade, eighth grade, and again in high school. Even research from the nineteen forties found the same pattern. Students benefit from repeated exposure to the same historical content with increasing depth and sophistication across their k 12 experience. Few historians would dispute the end of Reconstruction as a significant pivot point around which to divide the first half and second half of US history courses. One concern, though, is the time lapse between students' experience with the first and second halves of US
History. In states like Texas where only the second half is covered in high school, the events of the of early American history are stranded in seventh grade, eighth grade, excuse me, depriving students of the opportunity for more mature treatment and advanced study of crucial episodes. Meanwhile, second half history content only grows every year, leaving events of the recent past likely to be crammed in before summer break. So I encourage you to take a look at the full report, and I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Jackie Biesinger? Think about this.
Good afternoon. I am Jackie Biesinger, and I'm here representing the National Alliance for Education Freedom. I am their president. Good afternoon. Here are the six considerations for enhancing the social studies framework. Number one, best practices when introducing new classroom teacher pedagogy standards. Ensure that the teacher the teaching of the social studies allow for teaching flexibility and freedom to tailor lessons to appropriate grade levels while maintaining a clear format for Western
civilization as an education priority for all grade levels. In addition, ensuring that the changes being implemented incorporate essential elements of paper and books for reading and writing, as the use of pen and paper is critical for brain development. Number two, relevant research to guide your work. To ensure a coherent account of western civilization, it is essential to embed it within the context of world history courses presented in as a primary subject rather than a secondary course.
This approach allows for a comprehensive understanding of how the national histories of influential countries like England and Spain have significantly shaped the states such as Texas, highlighting again the lasting impact of culture governance in society. K two, K two K two through, to second grade, I'm sorry. Instruction should incorporate stories of exemplary figures for Western American and Texas history and literature. Emphasizing substantial national patriotic and civic content. This includes teaching about Texas and the American flag,
the origins of the national holidays, the national motto, and the significance of landmarks, and celebrations within the state and nation, always ensuring the the material is age appropriate. Number three, the challenges in curriculum and the national at the national and state level. To enhance students' understanding it's over. That's time. Andrea Hutchinson. Hello. My name is Andrea Hutchison. I'm a social studies curriculum coordinator in Prosper ISD and a native Texan. Having started my teaching career in 02/2009, teaching seventh grade Texas history, I've worked with the same social studies standards for nearly fifteen years with only minor
changes. I believe we urgently need updated social studies standards, and I appreciate this committee's work so far to begin this process. With regards to the new standards, I have two key changes I would propose. My current dissertation research comparing social studies standards nationwide reveals that Texas has the highest number of history standards by far. For example, eighth grade US history currently has 99 standards to be taught in approximately one hundred and seventy one instructional days. Checks and balances, a rather complex topic, is only one seventh of one of those 99 standards. This excessive quantity prevents teaching social studies the appropriate depth and complexity it deserves.
Secondly, I would suggest we prioritize historical thinking skills, which would enable students to engage critically with history rather than simply memorizing facts. These include skills such as corroboration, contextualization, analyzing continuity and change, etcetera. I've included this research in my written testimony. As part of my testimony, I've developed a framework that is grounded in learning and development theories. For For elementary students, I propose beginning with what they know best, their immediate communities, and gradually expanding their their understanding outward to their state, country, and eventually the world. This approach honors young learners' cognitive development by starting with concrete,
familiar concepts before introducing more abstract or distant ones. For secondary students, I recommend reversing this approach. Students would begin with world cultures in sixth grade to establish a global understanding and then progress to a two year study of US history with seventh grade covering the first half and eighth grade covering the second half, both with an emphasis on Texas history. The current standards ask seventh graders to analyze how major world events, such as the Great Depression, impacted Texas before they've learned about those events. My proposal ensures students have the appropriate context before applying it to Texas history. It allows students to finish the story of American history in middle school rather than
having to wait until high school to learn important historical outcomes, like whether women did eventually gain the right to vote. My complete testimony includes further details about this framework, supporting research, and relevant portions of my dissertation. Thank you for your time. Bianca Suleica. Good afternoon. My name is Bianca Suleica, and I sit on the curriculum and instruction team for social studies in North Side Independent School District alongside my colleague who is here with me today. We support students and teachers on 83 elementary campuses and 21 middle school campuses. Those of you who are on the state board in 2022 may remember we joined
other professionals statewide providing public comment as often as allowed on our last attempt at TEEX revisions. Again, we're here today to urge you to keep the following two points in mind as you work to build a framework for the much needed TEEX revisions. Number one, the work groups in 2022 got many things right, but one thing they neglected was age and developmental appropriateness of content as proven by brain based research. Please ensure that you have current practitioners of each grade level in each work group guaranteeing that the content and concepts are appropriate for the brain development of each age
and are accessible for a non content expert elementary educator to teach. Number two, do not leave out contemporary world cultures. This exciting sixth grade course is paramount to our young Texans, and the diverse backgrounds of our students are honored when they learn about the political, social, economic, and geographic factors of our current world. This discourse rich class is often the kick start of social studies in secondary and ignites passion and global citizenship. This course was completely removed in the 2022 framework. Please ensure that it stays.
We are so excited to walk hand in hand with you all and our colleagues statewide to make Texas social studies classrooms enriching for posterity. Thank you. Members, do we have questions for this panel? I'm sorry, I thought it was like a point of information. Let me grab Ms. Perez Diaz and then I'll come back to you, member Peckham. Member Perez Diaz. Thank you, chairman. Thank you all for being here this afternoon. Bianca, this question is for you, if you wouldn't mind coming up to the podium. So, you know, I, wanna begin by thanking you and Northside ISD for, being engaged in this conversation, from the beginning. You know, you you spoke to and then,
miss Hutchinson also spoke to, the idea of world cultures and the importance of sixth grade. I know that, early on for board members around the table who weren't on the board at the time, you all proposed a framework, built on practitioner experience and, subject matter expertise. Can you share a little bit about what that framework looked like and, who all was involved? Yes. The framework was, developed by my team of curriculum instruction, our specialist and curriculum writers as well as, we support campuses and teachers. We came up with a framework very similar to the testimony that was just shared
where sixth grade social studies remained, the same, and then seventh and eighth Texas and US History could be combined and spread out through seventh and eighth because I absolutely do agree that the amount of ticks in eighth grade, is a lot, especially considering how early in the year testing is. We were able to send that proposed framework to some districts, in the state. We sent it to curriculum in in instruction faculty at Grand Prairie at an H E B district, and received really positive feedback about that as well. Fantastic. Thank you. And then,
you know, I I I wanna also hit on this, conversation around seventh and eighth grade and, you know, I, did some work back home, worked with region twenty. We brought together some, again, practitioners and, that is a resounding, it's a resounding message from the field. It's pretty consistent across the board. I also learned that it seems like the eighth grade exam is much more advanced than the eleventh grade exam. And so trying to think through how perhaps we create a solution for this, I also, think about some testimony that we had previously when we were talking about this and that it's important to remember that when we're looking at Texas history at the seventh
grade level, it's important for, it's important to provide contextual, background and so integrating that into, at the very least US history Yeah. Makes a lot of sense so that individuals are young people going through these courses can, can understand how all of it is interconnected. I'm wondering, you know, does it make sense and just from a practitioner's perspective, right, to do just that and integrate seventh grade and eighth grade TEKS, still understanding that at the eighth grade level, they'll be tested.
Mhmm. But is there time in the seventh grade course to be able to to bring down some of those TEKS and integrate them in in a way that makes sense? I absolutely think so. When we look at the sixth and seventh grade curriculum and how much more, flexibility and time there is, there's a stark contrast between that and eighth grade and how there is no eighth grade TEKS to be brought down and taught in seventh grade. Perfect. Thank you. And then my, second or my my next set of questions are for, miss Hutchinson, if you wouldn't mind. Thank you so much for your testimony as well.
I personally really appreciate the research that was put into, providing these solutions for us. I, I have the same question, for you because you recommended some, some things regarding the eighth grade, course and how we can perhaps address the the TEKS in a more viable way and in a way that, will also help our young people retain the information. Can you speak a little more to, to what that could look like and even perhaps moving up some of the TEKS from eighth grade to eleventh grade, if that's something that makes the sense? Yeah. So what I would,
advocate for, much like you talked about as well, is having US history, span two years in seventh and eighth grade, and then kinda zoom in on those Texas history things so we're not losing, that Texas history aspect. And that allows us to really explore those concepts of The US history in a lot greater depth and really, integrate some of those skills that are so important as well. Right now the way it is in eighth grade, especially, I I taught that course for many years, you feel like you're just rushing through content and you don't really get time to stop and analyze primary sources and have those discussions and that those opportunities for civil discourse that we know are really important. I definitely think there's some opportunities to play with the TEKS and rearrange them and
put some in eleventh grade and, and definitely reimagine them in seventh grade as well. Thank you. And just one last question along those lines. Right now, as the seventh grade Texas history course stands, then the the children transition into eighth grade US history. Is what is the, sort of transition from that content to the to The US content? Is So it basically starts over. So you finish, you finish the year in seventh grade with, like, almost modern times, twentieth century, and then you go into eighth grade and you start with, colonialism. So or the,
yeah, colonial America. So they're basically starting over, and so, I think making it two years would kind of tell the story together and allow students to kind of get that context. So instead of having to go, here's the civil war, here's what happened, and then let's talk about how it impacted in Texas. You could talk about the civil war in general and then talk about those key battles and and facts in in Texas. Thank you so much for that. I, I'll just ask that the committee, I'll implore the committee to listen to our practitioners in the field who understand what's happening and the implications for how we go about setting this framework and the expectations.
And, I think those are two very important pieces to recognize. Thank you. Member Picker? Yes, sir. Ms. Salaika? Hi. How are you? I'm good. In your testimony, you identified strengths that you would like to see or frameworks that you would like to see, but you're speaking really fast and I was trying to take notes. Can you just say them one more time? The framework that, we talked about that miss Diaz asked me about, is that what you're talking about? In your original testimony, I have political, economic. Yes. I was trying to, put it all down. Yes. It was the,
political, social, economic, and geographic factors. So those are kind of the main key concepts in the current sixth grade course, that we've seen in our district to work really well for those students understanding those concepts really deeply before going into seventh and eighth grade. Okay. Thank you. Members, do we have any further questions for this panel? Thank you for coming to see us. Appreciate your testimony. Lynette Aguero. Ernesto Rodriguez, Nicole Richie, Brenda Howard, Shonda Hass Hassi, Susan Perez. Ernesto Rodriguez. Good afternoon.
My name is Ernesto Rodriguez. I am the senior curator, historian, and lecturer for the Alamo. Sam Houston once said, Texas will again lift its head and stand among the nations. It ought to do so for no country upon the globe can compare with its natural advantages. Education is a foundation upon which a thriving society is built, and the social sciences are the mortar that binds the other academic disciplines together. We are at a crossroads that will enable us to live up to the wisdom expressed in Sam Houston's words. To rise to this moment, we must recognize the essential role of social sciences.
All history is connected. It is not a series of isolated events, but a unified narrative that must be taught as such. I have the I had the honor and privilege of working at the Alamo for over twenty five years. We probably welcome approximately 1,600,000 visitors each year, and our job is to educate them all, young and old. Many come from other parts of Texas and The United States and from other countries. I find that their knowledge and understanding of our history is quite mixed. They may or may not remember what they learned in fourth and seventh grade, and I feel that we can do much better. The challenges in the TEKS that will will allow us or the change in the
TEKS will allow us to further social sciences to truly be the glue that holds all the disciplines together. Teaching Texas history as an integrated portion of a greater curriculum will make for a more well rounded student. Texas history does not occur in a vacuum away from other histories. It is an integral part of it. Keeping Texas portions separate does showcase our diverse and powerful spirit, but it also fails to place its importance on the greater history of the world. What happens in Texas affects other portions of our country and vice versa. If a student has taught US, Texas, and world history together, they will give a more complex understanding of how events intersect.
It will also make it possible for students to understand the connection between The United States Declaration Of Independence and that of Texas. Social sciences are the key to raising future Texans who not only know where they are where they're coming from, but where they are going. That's why I support expanded teaching of Texas history throughout the entire academic career, fulfilling our our students, fulfilling the hopes of the father of Texas education, Maribel b Lamar, the cultivated mind is a guardian genius of democracy. Thank you. Brenda Howard. Hi. My name is Brenda Howard. Good afternoon,
chair and committee members. I want to share why I objected to the 2022 rewrite of the social studies TEKS. While I fully support teaching world history, the 2022 draft placed so much emphasis on world history that it sidelined American exceptionalism and more importantly Texas history. This is concerning because Texas has a unique and rich history that is vital for students to understand. As an army brat, I lived in Germany for six years and took courses in my host nation's language and history. Even though I was an American student,
there was an appreciation for needing to know the history of Europe and specifically Germany. As a result of this experience, I know that it is important to have a world view, but it is just as important to have the knowledge of where you live. Every day, new students move to Texas and while they sense that Texas is special, they don't always know why. Without a strong foundation in Texas history, they miss the opportunity to understand the legacy they're joining. American exceptionalism is a key part of that legacy. Our country was founded on the principles of liberty, self government and the belief that anyone can succeed regardless of background.
Teaching this helps students appreciate the values they have shaped that have shaped both our nation and our state. As we approach Texas's two hundredth birthday in 02/1936, it becomes even more important to teach our students about the history that shaped the state and made it what it is today. We must broaden students' perspectives but not at the cost of losing who we are. I hope you can find a way to include world history with a strong focus on American and Texas history. This is an important so that we can ensure students understand both their place in
the world and their own national and state heritage. Thank you. Shonda Halsey. Good afternoon, chair Kinsey and members of the committee. My name is Shonda Hassie, and I come to you as a mom of two children who have flourished with their foundation, the classical model of education. I'm here because I believe that every child in Texas deserves to learn US History and Texas history throughout the social studies curriculum in addition to world history, and that, we can include a classical model approach to this as well.
I wanna thank you for your tireless work in considering and developing these new tiques. In front of us is the opportunity to genuinely elevate the way we teach social social studies by shifting from simply teaching what to learn to empowering our kids with how to learn. That's exactly what classical education does. Rather than cram, test, forget, it nurtures curiosity, wisdom, and connection making. It equips students with the lifelong tools of learning through the three stages of the classical approach, grammar, logic, and rhetoric, building not just knowledge, but understanding, reasoning, and persuasive communication.
I wanna share a few facts about classical education. Classical education is one of the fastest growing educational movements in America and is growing by 5% year over year. There are now over 1,500 classical schools across the country including more than 150 public charter schools. And it's not about growth, it's about excellence. Classical charter schools like the Hillsdale Affirm Schools and the Great Hearts Academies consistently rank among the highest performing public schools in their states. Let's see. I I wanted to share about my personal experience. My own kids, now eighth and tenth grade students, go from memorizing facts to asking deep questions, making connections across subjects.
I've also seen them benefit greatly from the classical model's emphasis on primary source documents. So including US history, primary source documents, Texas history, with real letters, speeches, songs, and stories from historical figures. Imagine what it would look like if every child in Texas had the same opportunity, a generation of students who graduate with a lifelong love of learning with these added tools for success. So today, as you consider these standards, let's think legacy. Let's consider incorporating a classical approach in the TEKS that develops not only fulfilled and successful students, but virtuous and informed citizens.
Texas always leads the way, and this will encourage other states to follow in the same path. So thank you so much for your time. Susan Perez? You can start. I'm Susan Pettis and I submitted written testimony. I'm a lifelong educator and I'm here to promote classical education approach to social studies. The goal for classical education is not to prepare students for the next test, the next grade, even for college or the workforce, but to help each student find his or her own talents and purpose for being on this earth.
This would be a great benefit for every student. In classical education, elementary or grammar school, students are able to do lots of memorizing such as poems that develop character and a love of language. See your list of 12 examples. They memorize they could memorize the states and the location of each state along with the capitals plus a few important facts about each state. Also, students might memorize the presidents and a little information about each one of those. In middle school or logic, students learned or loved to argue,
so they're taught to debate and to do it well with researched facts about what they're saying. They must also learn civil discourse where we listen to other people on from the other side. They can memorize grammar rules or study the Constitution. A friend of mine had to pass a test on the Constitution before she could leave eighth grade. In middle school and high school, a rhetoric students begin to read and take notes from the great book series which hasn't been used in public education for over a hundred years. The depth and quality of this literature and ideas in these books would be hard
to comprehend without perusing them. Our founding fathers each kept a journal as they read through these books and use their notes to defend ideas. In high school, these journal notes help students to write a 30 page thesis with documentation of sources over a topic of interest to the student. Classical education teaches students to learn and pursue topics that are of interest and related to their own interest and skills. You may refer to the last chapters of the battle for the American mind by Pete Hegseth for more information about classical education.
Thank you. Members, do we have questions for this panel? Hi. I'm here, chair. You do? Member Perez, yes. Thank you, chairman. This message this this message this question is for, miss Howard, if you wouldn't mind. I just need some clarification on, on your position. So I, I heard you loud and clear. Understand that Texas history is very important. Students will have an initial introduction at the fourth grade level. The testimony right right before yours, focused a lot on the importance of Texas history and ensuring that it's integrated into a more sort of country based and global
perspective at the at the older grade level because it's so important to understand contextually our importance as a state and how it's integrated. At the end of your testimony, you say world history, you want you we hope you can find a way to include world history with a strong focus on America, on American and Texas history. So would you say that an integrated approach of Texas history with American history does exactly that, uplifts the the Texas' importance in the fabric of the country? Absolutely. I'm here because I'm encouraged by this committee.
I believe that each of you went through the 2022 experience, and you each heard hours and hours of testimony and so this committee has a great understanding of how we can do better. And so I know you hear a lot of, negative. I'm here to say positive that I do believe this committee can, make this happen and do it and integrate it. I do believe that that can happen. Yes, thank you and I encourage all of you just you got it. Thank you, Ms.
Howard and then, Mayor Perez, yes can I ask a follow-up to your question? Okay. Because I think this is kind of a distinction that, I'm seeing come out here. Your question was focused on the integration at seventh and eighth grade Mhmm. Only. Oh. And I'm not sure. So I would like to understand both thoughts if maybe you That's thank you for asking that because, that was integrated just two grades, and I'm I'm asking that it be integrated throughout. And so I believe that we each have a place in the world,
in our nation, or and then in our state, and all of them are relative to each other. Texas itself affects, as they say, how Texas goes, there goes America. And so Texas history in relationship to world history and to American history altogether, every place that you can integrate the three would be amazing. Okay. Is that different than the way you were thinking about it? Remember before? That was different than how I interpreted the, yeah, that I was thinking about it, but Well, the the reason I kinda interjected it because,
as I've had conversations, I hear the word integrated thrown out, and then it's like, well, what is integrated and where? And that's a much more complicated, thing. So as we're getting into a little bit more in the weeds, I, for myself, wanna be able to organize these. I appreciate you making that distinction because, yeah, I I think we're, you know, and maybe this question will will, I had a question of of mister Rodriguez. Sure. And so I'd like to hear his perspective, if I could. It's sort of related to this. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Mister Rodriguez, really appreciated, really appreciated your perspective.
I'm a San Antonio girl, so thank you, thank you for being here. As you've listened to the testimony and as you look at, history, I know you focused on the integrated approach. Perhaps at the at the seventh and eighth grade level of Texas and US history, I'll have so this is kind of a two pronged. Is that what you're is that what you're sort of recommending as you think about integration, of these courses? And then I'd love to hear your perspective on on integration of Texas with with world cultures because I don't necessarily know that I agree with that. So the way the way that I see history is everything's connected and you have
to integrate it all through the through the entire career And what we do, what I do at work is I talk to millions of people and when you have a lot of our Texans come through and they immediately say, I don't remember because I was learned that in fourth or seventh grade and they don't make the connections with what's happening internationally. You can take an event, you know, that most of us recognize seventeen seventy six, that important year. That changes the course of world history and it changes the course of Texas and so when you unite connect all the dots you know you're creating a massive tapestry
and if we start teaching our children young the importance of making these connections by the time they're adults they understand that everything happens together and where I will come from, right, I come from I come from San Antonio, the Alamo, come from a family of educators and you look at the you look at the Alamo itself and right now we're working on a project that'll tell a three hundred year history and it's not just one spot you're integrating everything that's happening worldwide into the history of our site and so when you see school kids come through you
want to be able to say this is why this happens and have them understand it on a global level, on a national level because that's how we learn, you know. If you learn that the importance of your state and what it does to everything else in the world, it makes it make sense. There's a reason that when we travel and they say where are you from, the first thing we say is Texas. Right. Yeah. Okay. I I appreciate that. I I can I can definitely understand that? I'm trying to think of how we, I'm trying to think of how I would approach sort of the world's history or
the world cultures piece of it without losing focus on, the more global perspective from, you know, because I think that's incredibly important too and so completely agree with the integration of Texas in in that context, but I also feel like like it is incredibly necessary not to lose sight of the more global approach to the sixth grade, world cultures piece. Well, you think about just just look at the whole idea of what why are we here? We're here because of a group of people coming into this region. They bring their ideas. Where do their ideas come from?
Mhmm. They come from older ideas and if you look at just think about San Antonio in general. The ideas that are coming from Spain to Mexico over to San Antonio are the ideas that the Romans had of creating little rooms or little little rooms everywhere they went. Guess what the Spanish are doing? They're creating little things. And so you're bringing this idea, this culture that's blended culture, which is when we go to San Antonio, when we come to Texas, we are a blended culture. We are a culture of people that from all over the world with different ideas,
and it's great to be able to talk about all those ideas and how we get to that point. Because once again, Texans are Texans. And when you think about the report that was done in 1828 by a Mexican officer, and he did a comparison. He did a comparison of people in London, people in Mexico. And he says if you grab a person from Mexico, transfer them to London, they will become a Londoner, vice versa. But if you transfer them to Texas, you don't know what you're gonna get. That's funny. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Miss Rodriguez,
I'm a former San Antonio and, two of my wife's relatives died at the Alamo actually so I'd like to connect with you later on that to talk about it. But I've been trying to understand this integrated concept a little bit and since you're a historian maybe you can help me. So around the time of the 1776, the founding of our country, what else was happening in context of the world? So when you think about what's happening let's just go east or west.
Let's go west to Texas, right? Seventeen seventy six, you're traveling Spain is in control of the region. You have just had Louisiana that fell into Spanish control and with in 1762. And there's movement because the world is colliding. Right? Everyone's colliding against England for the most part. You've got the French and then you have the Spanish and they're colliding. Well, guess what's happening in Texas? They're bringing people together and there's a there's a gentleman, Galvez in Louisiana that has a call for aid And the aid comes from Texas
in the form of cattle. And we ship cattle east to help feed the troops. We send troops to fight. We So, you know, so Texas is very active in the 1776, which is being led by the King of Spain. And there's also one of those things that there's a tax, you know, or donativo which is a voluntary tax that's paid by the people of this region as well. And so, you have these connections that while we're isolated by being the northernmost part of New Spain, we're still interacting with the rest of the world.
And it's very important because how many students actually understand that Spain played a bigger role than France in the American Revolution. They help finance it and so it's a global event that we could talk about in our own backyard. It's like the battle of the Alamo. It's a global event that happens in our backyard. And you look at when you make the connections starting with 1776, you have this war that breaks out. It ends up with a new concept that pops up which is having a republic.
It travels overseas and then bounces right back because it leads to the rise of Napoleon, the invasion of Spain. It leads to basically Mexican dependence with the Grito De Lores and then ten years of fighting, which also takes place in Texas. It leads to the Republic Of Mexico, which leads to the Texas revolution, which leads to the Mexican American war, which leads to The United States fulfilling manifest destiny. It's all connected. Thank you. You're very welcome. I don't know how to react to it. I I I had started looking into it and I've learned some things that are
happening at the same time that I guess I missed in my history course. And I'm gonna go pull the tapes on this so I can, take off those nuggets. Any further questions? I I have a question, mister chairman. Member Pickering. Mister Rodriguez, thank you for that. I wish a lot of Texans were watching what you just did, that was really amazing. Maybe you need a YouTube channel or something. Okay, but my question is for, Ms. Perez. Yes. Hi. You gave us a pretty comprehensive packet, which I find this document really fascinating. Can you just kind of quickly for the sake of time,
can you just kind of go through that, these recommendations? And I apologize to the others that are not on the committee. They got the small version that you need a microscope to, anyway to read it. This came from my granddaughter's classical education school in Colleyville and this is their plan to take middle school and high school from the beginning of time until now and how to read the classical books along with those parts of history. So the top, the key players, many of those are books in the classical series that the students will read through
or the teacher will choose which ones that they will read as they're studying these portions of history. Okay. So this is sixth through? Might even start in fifth. I didn't actually ask and the, headmaster is retiring, so I need to call back because he's the one that put this together and find out exactly when they used all this, but I can certainly do that and get back with you. That would be wonderful. Thank you. Alright, and then I just wanted to mention this website, pilgrim institute, a friend my age had these books when she was in a classical school in
seventh and eighth grade and she kept these books and I realized on the picture you couldn't read the titles and so I typed out the titles and the authors and on the back of that page she had suggestions of more books that went along with classical education like Robinson Crusoe, the Deer Slayer, just you know classical books that should be read in school. Yeah. I'm a big fan of great books too. I have one of these books actually over my laptop case. I have Thomas Paine's common sense. Awesome. The depth and of the knowledge and the language is just amazing.
I had never seen them. We haven't used those books in public schools for a hundred years, so that was new to me and I've been in education over forty five years, so. Thank you ma'am. Thank you. Ms. Jose, I have a question for you. So I appreciate your testimony, but I was hoping you could help me connect some dots here. So Sure. Classical education. I just wanna confirm. We're talking about basically what, Mr. Rodriguez was discussing. Are these the same concepts in your view? That is exactly right.
Yes, classical education the beauty of it is when my kids were in their pre k kindergarten first, second, their primary years we were learning concept year over year being reintroduced that with building upon the of course we have grammar first, but it's built into grammar lessons for lower elementary. Then it goes on to more logic, understanding the why behind, you know, what happened, let's say, the the Battle of the Alamo. And then when they get to high school, revisiting that concept and being able to,
you know, speak persuasively, in relation to what were the different groups around the world thinking about this, what what was going on, you know, with leadership in in Mexico and Spain and in The US at the time. And so it really is a beautiful thing because you build upon concept and having the the emphasis of even some of the same stories woven throughout your learning. It's almost like when you read a book, you go back and you realize, I don't remember reading that part. So if we only get it once, we don't get that, you know,
re reaffirmation year, you know, year over year of the different concepts throughout history. So, yeah, it's a beautiful integration, and they do different things, different with each of the different years from writing, speaking, research and you know in the grammar years really learning mathematical concepts and vocabulary through history. So your kids are in eighth and tenth grade? Yes. What school do they go to? They're at Trinity Christian now in Lubbock, Texas. Okay. And where did they go? Where did they get a classical is that from Trinity Christian?
So, combination of Kingdom Preparatory Academy in Lubbock, for first grade through fifth grade and then also some homeschool, classical emphasis. I think I know the answer to this if you're, doing homeschool as well, but I'm sure that, well I'm assuming you have a network of other people who are doing involved in this type of education. Yes. So one of the things I'm trying to understand is how does that compare to what we're doing now? If somebody went through this whole process like and they end up at college, how are they doing? They end up in the in the,
in a career, how are they doing? Do you have any examples or data or can you help me find any like that? Yeah. The sheets that I, submitted to you, there's a chart on the back, of the sheet talking specifically about SAT scores. So ACCS is the Association of Classical Christian Schools, and it's not just a Christian model, it's a classical education doesn't have to be Christian. There's a classical model as well that aren't religious. But this is just from this association. And you'll see that the SAT scores by type of high school,
public religious, independent and classical, classical students always typically outperform the other schooling types because of this integrated approach to learning. And there are other sources there, specifically the University of Notre Dame's good soil study. I would encourage you to look at that study. It really details the success of classical education, and that was in combination with the Association of Classical Christian Schools. They did that study together. It is a very comprehensive review of the successes of classical education.
Thank you. Sorry. I didn't sorry. I missed the chart. No. It's great. It's great. Member Perez, yes. So I thank you for your thank you for your testimony. I, you know, I was listening as I was listening to you. I appreciate the, the your perspective on the classical model. I, I I like the idea of Socratic engagement in the classroom. I think it really sparks critical thinking. Mhmm. My one concern forgive me. I don't know who this was from. Was this from you? Oh, that's from space. Okay. Although you just made comment about, classical education not necessarily being Christian based,
which I also I think is incredibly important. I think a secular approach to classical education is probably, the the route that we need to go in public education. I I wanna understand, you know, as we talk about discourse, how that I think, wanna I wanna understand how that is reflected in the classical education that's nonsecular based. Yeah. So I know, that in the high school, in the, the third phase, which is the rhetoric school, they are really focused on building,
dissertations, and they spend their entire rhetoric years working toward a crescendo of what they're gonna present their senior year. It's a it's a thesis. And, I mean, how how many schools across, you know, the the country are are having seniors do thesis? It's a really, you know, obviously proven concept to be, you know, a content expert and subject in a specific subject matter. And so, there's a big emphasis in that, which I think, like you said, critical thinking skills are so vital. We're I'm very concerned about, you know,
the public education model only because it's so much, you know, memorized and just kinda rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. We're preparing the students for testing, not for the longevity of learning. And so that's what I love about the classical model, and my kids having that foundation, they're now in a private Christian school, but they are really thriving and are ahead of their classmates even in a private Christian school because of their foundation with the classical model. So also an emphasis on Latin,
which we know is the root of our language. And so a lot of Latin emphasis, really understanding the dichotomy and dissecting the words that we all know and understanding that it really sets them up for a high measure of success, which, you know, is reflected in the SAT score just on this one chart of many. Understood. Thank you. And just out of curiosity, I I know you're you're testifying as a parent. Are you an educator by chance? I'm not an educator, but homeschool mom, so definitely, very passionate about curriculum and taught my children for a lot of their years as
well. So Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any further questions for this panel? Thank you for being here. Stephen Mints, Mary Castle. Steven Mintz. Steven Mintz, professor of history at the University of Texas at Austin, and I'm also the chair of the Americanist wing of our department. Having read each of 51 state standards, Texas stands out in its emphasis on history as central to civics and social studies education, and I commend you for that. And I hope we will continue to double down on that emphasis.
What you see in many states is an emphasis on current events and on the periphery of social studies as opposed to the core, which in my view is history. And acquiring foundational knowledge in history and working with primary sources. These are essential. However, we do have a problem, which is that most teachers Who teach social studies in Texas have only had two courses in history. Typically,
they required two US history courses. And so their ability to be able to bring history to life in the classroom is really a challenge. Just taking Texas history as an example. As interesting as the eighteen thirties are in Texas history, the late nineteenth century and the twentieth century of Texas history is just as exciting and in many ways more relevant to our students. And to not emphasize that, I think, is to deprive them of something really crucial.
So again, what I hope you will do is think of ways you can work with our colleges and universities to help the professional development of our teachers so they truly can bring history to life. Thank you. Mary Castle. Good afternoon, chairman Kinsey and members of the ad hoc committee on social studies. My name is Mary Elizabeth Castle. I'm director of government relations for Texas values. For the last six years, I have, researched and, you know, presented testimony and feedback on the TEKS on various subjects,
but especially social studies. I also have experience teaching at the collegiate level for a master's in public policy course as well. In the last ten years, Texas values has been very active at the State Board of Education when it comes to social studies and making sure that there's fair treatment when it comes to topics of religious liberty, first amendment principles, and, of course, American and Texas history. But, of course, back in 02/2022, there were some problems with the drafts that did come out, during the process. Some of these standards that were presented to the board, it removed important aspects of American culture and history and created divisiveness amongst stakeholders.
Very early in the year, it appeared that the new framework for social studies in elementary school would take away a stand alone course on Texas history for fourth grade, and I believe it's already been talked about with previous testifiers about how important Texas history is. Of course, there were other issues like removing in god we trust, our national motto, and some other issues with topics that were addressed that we do not believe, really represented well our American history and American culture. Some specifics from a handout that we have on our web site included,
comparing roles and goals and accomplishments of social movements like GLAAD, that was in The US History course, including the gender inequality index, which was in world geography. Also, there was a tick deleted, about citizenship and replaced with active listening in US government. There was also a tick deleted with George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Ronald Reagan, and these were all important things that we thought should be included. All this to say we believe that the new framework should include, early on participation of stakeholders and a very transparent policy early on.
So thank you so much for your work on this. Members, do we have questions for this panel? Okay. Thank you. K. Well, this concludes the, public testimony and therefore the public hearing which is what we are posted for today. Thank you for everybody, to to everyone who came out to testify, and get this process kicked off for us. The entire committee is appreciative of your time in coming to, make your viewpoints known to us and help us to learn more. The committee this committee, the ad hoc committee will meet again in the coming weeks, consolidate ideas with the intention of meeting the report that the report deadline of June
that was specified in the charge when the committee was established. I thank board members for their time listening to public and again beginning this process of a framework decision. I'd urge board members to start considering their selections for nominees for content advisors related to social studies as that will be coming up rapidly and with that we will stand adjourned.