Heat. Heat. Good afternoon. Welcome to the city of Titusville special meeting on July 19th, 2025 at 1 PM. I'm going to call this meeting to order now for the invocation. Please bow your heads for a moment of silence.
Thank you very much. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Thank you very much, city clerk. Individuals wishing to speak on agenda items must complete a signup card prior to the item being introduced. Signup cards are available on the table. Individuals wishing to speak on non-aggenda items may do so under under
the public comment. No signup card is required. Citizens will be given three minutes to speak on all items. All signup cards and exhibits being submitted to city council shall be placed in the box on the table. Thank you, city clerk. So when we
started this week, we had five uh high-qualified candidates to interview and as the week progressed, we had um quite a few drop out, leaving only one uh applicant for us to interview today. Um unfortunately, we had the events
lined out, so we couldn't change that without having a special meeting to then change the meeting. So here we are to basically kind of still fulfill that that um that system uh that we have laid out and then at the same time have discussion. So I'm going to just walk
through the the agenda with city council so everybody knows what's going on. Uh we're going to interview u Mr. Ibate. We're going to allow for public comment and then there's an ELT portion executive leadership. So that's where we as council get feedback from the people
that this position will be directly reporting to. So during that portion uh we will just call a brief recess. Each council member will walk downstairs and meet with the executive leadership team individually for about 10 minutes. So each council member will spend 10 minutes with them and then we will have
council discussion and then after that we will bring up the uh city attorney position and then petitions and requests. Council, do you have any objections or suggestions on the series of events? All right, seeing none, we're going to move into the interview portion. As you
can see, we have uh our amazing HR director, uh Mr. Joe Dairo, uh sitting in that position as um city manager, as it is appropriate that, you know, we treat Tom like anybody else. No offense, Mr. Mr. Abate, but uh you know, we wanted to make this as fair and as a
partial process as possible. So, uh Mr. about would you uh you know please take your position and city clerk can you put 30 minutes on the clock please thank you very much and uh I think we had a pretty good process last time hopefully everybody has their questions
and you know we obviously all had an opportunity to interview Mr. Abate this morning. So had a lot of good discussion, but now it's the opportunity to do that as a group and in front of the public. So uh with that being said, I'll allow uh council member Mscoso unless Jolen or you ach.
All right. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Member Nelson, you have the floor. Okay. Mr. Abate, you've been with the city a number of years. What do you what would you see as changing in the future?
What would you do different? What What would I do differently? Well, I've had Can you put the mic up to your mouth, please, so they can catch you? Thank you. First of all, I'd like to thank the members of the public and also the executive leadership team for showing up on a Saturday afternoon. Very critical decision that council has to make. To um
answer your question, what I'd see differently, I've had the pleasure of serving under three city managers and I've seen a lot of various events occurred in the city and and obviously some of the things that I would see changed. I I would like to see the city
more proactive in addressing the uh city's infrastructure. I'd like to see us uh uh more active in sustainability issues. also addressing uh social media. We are we have a a good community
relations program. I think we need to step it up a little bit more because obviously uh today's generation is more attuned to social media and we need to keep pace with those advances. So there's a number of issues that I'd like to change but we we have a fantastic
team on board and uh I'm sure the city is ready to go forward with that. Second question in terms of the public um the public well all
everyone who comes in how would you interact with them? Well obviously we we can do more uh community outreach. Um I think we need to be more um transparent in in
everything we do. Um we need to um uh put out on social media uh what's going on in the city, keep the citizens more advised. Communications is is absolutely paramount. They need to know what's going on with their city government and the reasons for those decisions being
made and also they have to know what all the different departments are doing in order to deliver you know um quality municipal services. So bottom line is we need to do better outreach to the community. Thank you.
Thank you, Member Nelson. Member Scosa, did you want to go? Sure. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Mr. Abate. Um, so my first question is, um, in what ways are you different from the previous city manager, and how would your leadership feel different to staff or
citizens? Again, I've had the uh, fortune of working for three different city managers. Each one had a unique leadership style and I've tried to as I work for them analyze each and every one of their styles and pick out the the
good elements that I would want to um emulate. Certainly. Um I think I would want to be very um outgoing to the community, be approachable um to anytime a citizens has a concern, you know, I I
would take that as a my concern and I would address it, you know, that way. Um certainly work on relationships with with council. Um, some of the city managers were were uh, you know, at a higher level than I would be at as far
as uh, you know, I consider myself to be more in the weeds as far as working on the budget with the budget managers and and and working with the different departments. So, um, there are good and bad points for each city manager and I've tried to learn, you know, what
works for them and use those good points. Okay. Thank you. Um, and then my second question, um, there's kind of two pieces to it, but, um, have you handled a situation where a staff or the community feedback was critical of your decisions? And so that's the first part. And then
can you name the time you changed your mind or adjusted course due to that input? Well, certainly, you know, I don't operate in a vacuum. I I rely heavily on uh the executive leadership team and basically all citizen uh excuse me
employee feedback. Um we don't always agree. Um and I try to find the reasons why they they disagree with what you know policy or what type of initiative I'm trying to undertake. Um, as far as
instances where we've had disagreements, um, you know, sometimes budget-wise, obviously when you're you're chasing scarce resources, each department head um feels that their needs potentially could be above the others and and you have to broker those scarce resources.
You know, sometimes, you know, the police chief may want x number of additional police officers, and I can't afford to to do that. So, I would have to explain to him that we could maybe uh ration it out and do two at midyear, one, you know, at the beginning of the
budget year. You know, the the fire chief may want a certain type of equipment and and we may or may not be able to afford it. So there's always brokering of resources and that seems to be the biggest issue. For the most part, we agree on the basics that we have to
be accountable to the public and and deliver you know superior services. It's where we sometimes have disagreements is how to allocate resources and that's why we we get together on a weekly basis and we hash that out. Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Thank you member Mscoso. Vice Mayor Cole, I know you have uh consistently worked on the budget and you basically of the budget zar. I have a procedural question. If we as council said, okay,
you need to cut 5% of our employees. I'm not asking you what employees. I'm just asking you what procedure would you go through to make this happen? That's that is a great question because you know that those are the type of
questions I'm anticipating come August 7th when we do the act first budget workshop and and as you know we just submitted the city manager's proposed budget to you all and those resource decisions will will have to be made. So if if I was asked cut 5% you know I
would immediately uh convene the uh executive leadership team and and say okay we need to come up with the uh directive that the council issued and we need to make those cuts and I would look upon them to collectively address it and
come up with a resolution at which point I may or may not agree with but uh you know they are the subject matter experts in their own fields and I look on them to provide guide me that direction, but we we could do it. As a you know, we always ask what you
could do for us, but as a city manager, what could we do in the operation of city council that would help you and the city to operate better? This may sound, you know, corny, but trust us that we're going to be doing
the right decision. will be making the right course of action that supports our strategic objectives. Um providing us with the proper resources and the proper guidance so that we can go out and do our jobs. That's the main thing is we'll
come up with you know what we know in our you know respective fields of professional fields and we would hope that council would provide us with those um resources needed to do our job. Thank you, Vice Mayor Cole. Member
Stokel. Yes. Um, appreciate our interview. Um, I don't think we were able to have a conversation like that prior and I was telling this to Mr. Abate. Um, even though I've been on council for a while, I did not have much interaction with him, so it was really nice to hear a
little bit uh more about you. Um, so my first question is, um, having worked with the city for a long time, and this is a little bit of a branch off of member Nelson's question, understanding that we set budget goal or we set city goals and priorities and vision,
I would anticipate a city manager coming into this role to have a vision for Titusville as well as you're leading, you know, hundreds of employees and taking care of the city. So, can you briefly explain what your vision for Titusville is? My vision is
what the council comes up with during the strategic planning process, council's role is to provide the vision and I am to make sure that vision is implemented. Um, you know, I think where city managers get in trouble is when
they start providing their own personal opinions on what the vision should be. I am not the um elected official. the five members on the council are and they provide the vision and and we implement that vision through the strategic
planning process through performance measures and and reporting back on our accomplishments. So, you know, that would be my answer is our vision is to implement what the goals of the city are as set forth by council.
Okay. And then that actually ties into my second question. Um going to leadership style and this is a kind of twofold. So can you briefly describe your leadership style in two different areas? One when it comes to staff and
employees, what's your leadership style there? But then also what is your leadership style with working with us as council as we're working together? And as you just said, what happens if we all don't agree? Um how would you handle that as a city manager when you may hear
conflicting or competing ideas? How would you handle that situation? That's a loaded question. I'd like to answer the first part. I get no more questions. So, I combined a little. As far as my leadership style, obviously, um, you know, I I've been
around the block and I've developed my own style of leadership and it's very collaborative. Um, I believe in in ensuring that um I surround myself with quality people that are professional and and know their job and and uh my job is
to motivate them and to provide them the resources to do their job. Um I I trust them implicitly and u I know they'll do the job, but I also hold them accountable when they when things don't go as well. we sit down and we talk
about it and we look for solutions to move forward. But, you know, I I my job is made easier because uh my leadership team is is is very professional and very well verssed in the jobs they do. As far as working with council, obviously it's
more of a subservient role to to council. Um, you know, I I look to the five of you to provide me direction as to um what you want to do and what you want to accomplishment. And you know, the interactions between council, I, you
know, I I try to treat each one um, you know, with respect and and I look for consensus and that tells me which way you're going as far as your leadership styles. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Member Stokel. Um DM
obviously I really appreciate our conversation that we had earlier today. What operational efficiencies would you enact should you get this role? It it's uh you know I obviously with a number of years of experience I have certain ideas that I would like to
change in the future. Um they're not wholehearted drastic changes but but I think we will we'll do a better job um with staffing issues. Um the city has been growing. When I first uh reported aboard, it was about 500. We went down
to about 430 during the uh the lean years uh post Challenger post uh uh shuttle and then we as a city has been growing. Our staffing has been growing. It's up to 601. And obviously, you know, staffing is is the biggest cost. It's
70% of our budget. So, I'd be looking to see some efficiencies and staffing. Um, I would be looking to make sure that we have the proper software. Right now, we do not have the right software to do our job. Our software is obsolete, our
enterprisewide software. Um, I'd be looking to council to support changing out the software. I'd be looking at some changes in uh how we do community outreach. Um, how we leverage technology in community development. So there's a
number of of ideas that that I have that uh you know I would first obviously bounce off our leadership team to see if I'm you know um going down the right trail but there's a number of ideas I have for efficiencies that I would certainly like to pursue with council
support. Thank you Mr. Bate. And my next question is um you know you served for 20 years. What is your biggest accomplishment that you've had here at the city? Well, there's a besides lasting 20 years
in this type of environment, um, well played, sir. Well, uh, you there's a number, you know, I am proud of where the city has come in 20 years. Um, the city is is growing in leaps and bounds. Um, uh, we're really
making great strides. Um, you know, we we've outsourced the marina. That's certainly a great accomplishment. Um it was at 40% occupancy now it's at 91%. It's clearly the jewel. It shows you that not everything has to be done by
government. You can do certain tasks by outsourcing. Um um you know and there's other other issues um as far as uh you know obviously the budget we've been driving down the millillage. I think we did good
job of of trying to provide municipal services that are are you know par with anyone in the county and we've had good relations with the county. You know there's a number of other issues that uh
certainly uh make me bring more pride. Thank you. Um I know we have some time left. Uh what I would like to you know this is not an additional question but I would like to give you an opportunity to address council and the public uh maybe
share you know your experience with the city and you know just kind of highlight your qualifications. Oh certainly thank you. Um as far as my qualifications you know prior to entering service with the city I was a
Coast Guard officer for 20 years. Um I served I graduated from the coastg guard academy and I went to the college of William Mary for my masters. Um I served on a number of cutters and some other shore assignments that were dealt with
finance and and controllership. Um then I came to the city and I'm very grateful that city of Titusville offered me the opportunity to serve as assistant city manager under Tom Hmer and um you know uh
you know it's been it's been a pleasure working and I I'm certainly developed a lot of relationships. My goal is certainly to continue on. Um, you know, I've learned how to be accountable um and how to be decisive in my decision-
making. Um, we've been through city's been through ups and downs. We had challenges um initially with uh with the uh Challenger and the uh the shuttle going down and and um
you know other issues uh you know COVID and and and uh just keeping pace with growth have been a challenging so it's been it's been a a wonderful experience and I hope to continue it. Thank you Mr. Abate. Um, now we're going
to move into the public comment portion. So, if anybody um had a card for 4B and just so everybody knows, the reason why we're doing this is because we will call a recess after this public comment. And I don't want people to wait around an hour to get your comments in in case you
have other things to do. So, getting to the public comment portion first, I think, is important. So, city clerk, any cards? So, we actually have cards on 4 A and 4 B, but we're just doing 4B since the first part was a interview process. Correct. 4 A and 4B.
Okay. So, we have Jesse, right? Curtis, can you turn the mic on, please? Good evening. Uh name is Jesse Wright from 3550 South Washington Avenue uh Titusville Resort and Destination. Um I came here in 2018 when I started
the project and uh I'm actually for Mr. Abate to continue being the city manager. Um in the last four years prior to Mr. Abate I only had two meetings with the city manager. uh within the last four months I've had almost about four or
five different meetings with Mr. Abate. He's been extremely available timewise to meet me and also with the uh uh planning department uh Mr. Parish. Uh that's one. The second thing is uh my
understanding is he's been around for like 21 years. My gut feeling is that the candidates that didn't show up, they knew who they have to deal with. That's why they probably dropped out. So, the other thing is I'm hoping that
the city council would consider the fact that any new person coming in that has to learn all these different projects. Five years ago, the city had only about a few, like about three or four. I think the city has got about
almost 45. There's only about 30 of them in this in this in this magazine. So paying somebody that is going to come from the outside about a half a million bucks for two years to learn what he knows to me is something you have to
consider. The other thing is that um any city manager does need an assistant as well. So I'm hoping that Mr. once he gets approved uh would select a an assistant that be
able to to help him. And uh with that, I just want to say that I appreciate the time that you guys are spending. I certainly hope that you're not going to be running this process again to get more candidates to do this again because I'm sure your time
is valuable. So is his time and everybody else's. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Right. City clerk Stan Johnston. Can I speak on 4 A, 4 B or what? 4 A and 4 B are basically the same thing. They're the same thing. So last week we
only did comments on 4 B because that was the only action item. So 4 A is just discussion. So if you put a card in for 4 A, I'm going to count it as 4 B. So you can speak. Really? Does that make sense? No, it doesn't. All right. Well, there's only one action item and that's 4B. So I'm only get three minutes.
You only get three minutes. You get and it's for 4 A and 4 B. I get only three minutes. Oh, there's no action item on 4 A. 4 C. There's no 4 C. Okay. 4 B. Okay. I'd like my three minutes.
City clerk. Thank you. Okay. Uh I don't know if y'all know what happened, but apparently uh the other candidates uh they knew he's going to win. I mean, he was certainly the top choice.
I don't know what Mr. B thinks about that. What do you think about that, Tom? Never mind. Don't don't answer. U so uh u he is our top choice. I don't know how you can not accept it. You don't have a choice. That's him. He's he's here and
and uh do I give him my support? Yes. Okay. So, uh that's that's one I give my support and uh uh I'm going to speak about some problems that we have uh in the city on this u petitions and request
that I uh I gave to um um Tom to uh Moscoso and to uh Mr. Cole last night as far as what's going on in the city that he's going to have to deal with and it's not good. It's big problems. So, I'll
I'll be doing that on our petitions and requests. But uh he's got he's got a big he's got a big uh job to fulfill and uh I'm hopefully that he will not be like Mr. Larice, but
more like Mark. Right. Right. Okay. Um the uh second city manager that he was um he's been under. He's been under three now. Hmer, Mark, and uh Scott. So, uh Mark was a good one. Uh Scott Larice
was he was just a liar and cheap. We don't need him around. Thank goodness he's gone. So, um um he's he's the man he's the man you got to take. And uh and I know his brother
his brother's a good man. He doesn't play very good uh basketball, but he's he's a good man. And so I think he's come from a good family. And uh Coast Guard is pretty good, right? Uh how about Navy? Yeah, Navy. I'm Navy. So,
thank you very much. Thank you, Tom. And thank you, council, for being here and and choosing him because I know you will. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. City Clerk, Daniel Lette. Good afternoon, y'all. I know we all could be out at the pier having a cool beverage, but we're here instead
interviewing this gentleman. I personally do not know this gentleman, although I've worked for him for the past 20 years or did. I retired in the beginning of the year after 26 years of working for this city. I have seen this city going downhill for 20 years. It
used to be the city of service. Do you all remember the city of service? Amen. We're not the city of service anymore. He has not been the problem. He's been an assistant, but he is part of it because how are you going to change anything if you keep putting the same
people in the same positions? Nothing will change. We have major issues going on at this city that I'm told you all do not know about. Which means if you don't know about him at his level and above, they're not telling you. Is that what we
want to continue with? I don't know. I don't want it. But you do have major issues. They're going to be coming down the pipes. Can this gentleman do the job? I don't know. I have no faith. He's Coast Guard. I was Army. Besides that, I got nothing else to say. Yeah, I know you're Air
Force, too. So, you can stay out of it, too. But anyway, for that and that's the only reason I'm saying it is he was here with the last guy. He was here with Mark Ryan, which I have no love for because he took away all my benefits. Uh Tom Hmer I thought was great. You
know what Tom Hmer did that nobody else ever did? He went around and worked every job in this city. Every job with every not every employee, but every job. Tom, he was there. That's all I'm up here to say is I think you can do better. I think we need to
shake up the city if you want to be informed of what's actually going on in this city. Thank you very much, city clerk. Tony Shel, Shel, Norwood House. Well, possession is 9/10en of the law. Perception is 99% of
what goes on. Perceptions vary, reflecting reality from barely true to almost totally the reality based on facts. I've ranked a few examples of public's perception from frivolous and inaccurate interpretations
to mostly factual perceptions. perceptions that council meetings have become a circus full of grandstanding and rude behavior when in reality it's been citizens coming before you to express their griefs and grievances and
yes member Cole complaints. Perceptions that out oftowners and local rebel rousers create a threatening atmosphere scaring away other citizens and exhibiting public dysfunction. Perceptions that the new PIO is the
mayor's personal publicity agent. Perceptions that the mayor himself was the center of deceptive and unethical behavior that led to his election. Perception that backroom negotiations led to the renewal of a belleaguered police chief's contract despite public
outrage. reflections that comment by a council member that the search for city manager could just stop and hire the current assistant led to him being the only candidate. And the perception is that hiring the assistant city manager will lead to more
of the same instability, public dysfunction, and giving our city away to developers to the detriment of current residents. Therefore, to not be perceived as a total waste of taxpayer funds for a sham search for a new city
manager, I suggest that you reopen the search and find a few new candidates to interview so that change can come to our city, which everyone is crying for. That isn't a perception, that is a reality.
Thank you. Thank you, city clerk. Kathleen Oort Dr. Kathleen O Titusville resident I want to start just by thanking you for providing this open form to allow the citizens the opportunity to speak. It's clear that the city manager search
didn't quite go as anticipated and so at this point you need to determine how to best move forward. I want to share my thoughts on this as I see there are essentially two options. You can end the search now and appoint Mr. Bad or you can reopen the search now or at some
point in the future. So first to look at this I wanted to review the reasons why to begin with you elected a nationwide search. You felt it was important to find the best candidate and that could be done by hiring an outside firm for whom we paid $50,000.
Second, you wanted to be sure the next city manager was selected without bias. And third, you also agreed to include citizen input in the process. Well, I think you could have done a better job on the third part. Um, we can learn there's room for improvement. And a
failed search is not a failure if we learn from it. I think we learned that it would be beneficial to have a more diverse selection of candidates. There are some cultural differences in terms of chain of command and involvement with citizens that might not fit with the
military model. The only benefit I see of not reopening the search is to save time and effort and it's of course possible Mr. Bate may withdraw from the Kansas City. The job of the city council is not always easy and it's time consuming as I clearly saw at the last
city council meeting's very long discussion on storm water rates. But putting the needs of the citizens ahead of your own is what you signed up for when you ran for the council. One particular advantage to reopening the search is that we wouldn't have wasted
the $50,000 that you felt very strongly and I don't disagree needed to be spent to get the best candidate. And I would also hope that Mr. Body reapplies, but that's ultimately his decision. But what are the disadvantages of stopping here? I said we never got the benefit of our
$50,000 investment. And secondly, it does give the impression, as Tony alluded to, that the race was fixed in a backdoor deal was made. I'm not saying that's the case, but unfortunately, some of the city council discussion about suspending the re the search and just
hiring Mr. Body before he even applied gave that impression. This does not benefit the reputation of the city and I strongly believe it doesn't benefit Mr. body to be hired under a cloud of suspicion. I personally don't see any advantage in suspending it for a given
period of time as it just prolongs the time we're having an intermittent manager. But there might be advantages, I don't know. But basically, I just want to strongly request that you reopen the search and also revisit that list that Tony gave you of ways citizens could be
involved in the process. Reopening the search in conjunction with expanding the search criteria and allowing for more citizen input can only serve to benefit the cities of Titusville. Thank you. City clerk.
The last card is Mark Frank. Well, good afternoon everyone. Thanks for letting me have a chance to speak. I've been a business owner in this town for 20 years, a sign company, and I have to say I've seen the city grow a lot. I don't know where everybody's coming up
where we're having all these troubles with the city. You guys are great. You've, you know, you've changed. You've done well. Um, this gentleman here, I don't really know him, but uh, we do need a little bit of a change, uh, as far as the city council, uh, the, uh,
manager goes, and I feel the council, I think, is fine. U, and the mayor, and by the way, I'm glad to have you sitting there, too. Um because I've seen growth in my company and I've seen growth on our streets. I've seen developments
going on right now and that means that Titusville is doing something right because if we weren't, we'd be locked up doors. We you wouldn't see businesses out there. And so I think you all are doing a great job letting us come out here and talk and see our piece. And you
know, not everybody's got the same opinion, but I tell you what, it's great to have somebody who's already had 20 years experience because I've hired new employees that come in and you've got to train them, that costs money, that costs time. But if you have somebody already
that knows the system and is willing to work with everybody and not only willing to work with everybody, willing to change a few things for the benefit of our citizens, I think it's a great idea. I think it's a good thing. We don't need to waste our money or our time looking
for other candidates. I think you have somebody sitting in front of you that is not only have a military background but also has the knowledge of what the city does and wants. So that's what my opinion is and everybody's got one.
Thank you sir. And city clerk just to confirm we are uh no more cards. Correct. Correct. Okay. At this time uh ELT can you head down to the round room please? Okay. So, just to remind everybody where we're at in the process, uh we're going to take a recess for about 50 minutes.
This is going to allow each council member to go one-on-one down uh to the round room and meet with the executive leadership team. So, the department heads that directly report uh to the city manager for their feedback uh on the hiring process as well. So, and
because we can't all do it together, um we're we're going to do it one-on-one. And this will also give our executive leadership team, those department heads the ability to express their concerns frankly uh about their potential uh new boss. So that's kind of why we keep it confidential. So at this time we're
going to go to recess. Uh member Viscosa, would you like to go first? this meeting back to order and now we're going to move into the council discussion uh portion of the meeting. So, that being said, council members,
Vice Mayor Cole, I have to say prior to the day, I was very conflicted on our decisions. I reviewed all the resumeumés and uh made a decision based on the resumeumés and unfortunately we lost
everybody. I have been totally impressed with uh Mr. Bate and the work that he has done. And what has pushed me over the top is the fact that I had an opportunity to
talk to the senior staff and uh I have heard nothing but positive comments about the management uh the way he manages the way he leads and uh I think that that's at this point
that's the direction that I want to go in. I think that at this point in time, our city needs continuity. If we went out and found a new city manager, that continuity wouldn't exist. It would take
that new city manager about 6 months to a year to become up to snuff on the way things are going. So, right now, that's the way I feel about it. Thank you, Vice Mayor Cole. Member Nelson,
I agree with member Cole. If we go out and redo the search, we will not have a city manager until probably January, February next year. And I hate the idea of us not having
somebody in that position. Um, and I agree with with the stability of the city. I will say I am very impressed with Mr. Bati's um outreach to the community, his
willingness to engage with the community. Um and likewise in talking to the senior staff, his what they're expressing to me is his willingness
um to engage with them, talk to them, work through problems with them. I I tend to agree with Mr. Cole. Thank you, Member Nelson. Member Stokl. Yes. Um I think it comes as no surprise
that I was beyond frustrated with this process. Um I think you all received an email from me about how uh disappointed I was that we were losing candidates left and right this week. Um found out there was a few reasons why that could
have taken place. Um, and that's not Mr. Abate's fault. He he applied and I think that and I I wanted to be clear, my frustration was not with him. It was with this process. Um, it just was it did not turn out the way I
had anticipated. And I've been this whole week just trying to figure out what are the options that we could have as a council. Um, as some of you guys had said, I have been thoroughly impressed with working with Mr. Bate. Um, I think that I didn't really know what to expect when he took on the
interim role. Um, and since then he has continued to impress me. I think he's uh we've mentioned some ideas here and he has not forgotten them. He brings them back to us. Um, I've not met with
confrontation or I don't really like that idea, so I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that one. I I think he's willing to work with all of us and all of our varying personalities. Um, and talking with our firm that we hired, another thing that made me feel better
about moving forward with Mr. Abate is they do have a one-year guarantee. So, if for some reason something doesn't work out or we're working with Mr. Abate, um, they would not charge us again. So, to me, I again, I I don't
like that. Um, we went through this process. We did use a budget for that. It was not 50,000. It was less than that. Um, but again, it wasn't Mr. Abate's fault that all these things happened. I think there's multiple reasons. And so I my how I'm feeling now
going through this process. I would like to move forward with Mr. Abate. I'd like to give him the chance to actually be permanent city manager. I think my hope is and I I do believe that we will all be impressed by him. I think the public will be impressed by him. Um, and it's
just been nice to see from when he became interim to where he is now. And I think moving from intram to permanent. Again, not the ideal situation and circumstances. I I do think he would thrive in the role. Thank you, Member Stokel. Member MSO, you did have your light on.
I did. I didn't know if you were wanting to respond to Well, um, I was just going to say one of the suggestions was a two-year contract with Mr. Obate. maybe with an extension for two years uh and opt out if
something happens. He doesn't like us, we don't like him, uh where we could um terminate the contract if needed and that might be a good solution.
Thank you, Member Nelson. Member MCOSO, thank you. Um so, yeah, I just I really appreciate Mr. Bate, you stepped into this role. um when we needed leadership and um you've done a fantastic job and you've been extremely professional and helpful and you've made my first year on
council much easier. So, thank you for that. Um but I do think that um expanding the search is also um fair to him. Um, I think it allows us to be open and um that if we do eventually if we
choose him, which would be my hope, that he would be stepping into a permanent role with public confidence and that people would know that you were chosen because we were able to compare you to other um other candidates. Um so, um I think we're really kind of left with one
candidate and for me it's not um necessarily that's not a choice. Um, so I uh my my goal would be to put it back out. Um, even though I I can't speak any higher of Mr. Abate. He's done a wonderful job, but I just think it is
important um to have options. And I do want to put this on the record. This is not this there's nothing nefarious going on with this process. Um there are a lot of things that contributed to this. So uh Mr. Bate just followed the what we had set forth and so I think that's
important to say. um there there was nothing behind the scenes going on. Um this is just how it turned out. Candidates dropped out for uh various reasons. I just would feel more comfortable um going back out and I know that would delay the process. Um but
those are my thoughts. Thank you. Member Mscoso. Um when we searched for city attorney on our own, we had nine applicants. Five, right? Or four. four were deemed
qualified, right? Uh when we used a search firm, we had over 60 applicants and we deemed nine highly qualified for the search firm. And unfortunately, it just got whittleled down, whittleled down where, you know, maybe they couldn't make the interview or or whatever external factors that
contributed to them dropping out. However, I did review those 60 resumes and I do feel that a search was conducted and everybody did apply just because unfortunately we did not get a chance to interview. We did compare Mr.
Abate to 59 other applicants. Um so that was also on the table and at the beginning of the week we did have the opportunity to invite anybody to interview which you know council declined and we decided to move forward
with the four and unfortunately things happened again outside of our control and Mr. Ibate's so I feel that for the last what has it been three months now almost four almost four months uh Mr. Bate has had a
working interview with every single one of us and has performed very very well uh working with the public, working with his staff, working with us and uh I I have the utmost confidence that he'll be able to do the job. Now again to member
Nelson's point if council wishes to you know um put a a specific term on it maybe you know Jolyn said two years but you know if we did one year so we're still within that guarantee that you know hey we can always go back out to search you know I'm okay with that too
but uh again I I have the confidence that Mr. Abate can get the job done. So those are my thoughts. Um member Stokal uh yeah maybe that is a question for HR director. How does it typically work um once you do agree upon is it what are the terms of the contract? Like for
instance, when we had our former city manager or Mr. Jiro, can you turn your microphone on and talk into it please? And I asked this because I know there's a contract which get allows you certain benefits should somebody get terminated.
So there's a contract but obviously if there's ever three people up here that want to terminate, you can terminate before. So the contract is a guarantee but also not. So just explain. I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Stokes. But you know typically um you know city
managers report to their charter employees. They report to you and their at will employees uh on the conditions of whatever employment agreement that you come up with. Um in the past those employment agreements have not been for
terms certain terms as you're stating. Um but um I I'll turn it over to Mr. Stokes for his legal issue. Yeah, I mean I' I've been involved in a lot of contract negotiations for various charter officers. There's
pretty much anything you know your imagination could come up with. I've seen at one point or another, you know, sometimes they include cars, they include health insurance, you know, the employee portion paid for or not. um
certain moving expens all kinds of stuff. So, it's whatever. I I had when I spoken about the city attorney contract last week, I said, "Well, let's see what the last one look like, and that'll be our starting point because that's what the city's used to." Um probably not much deviation. We want to make sure
that there's nothing in the charter or an ordinance that doesn't allow or doesn't provide for something like let's say on the health insurance, it's locked in that every employee will pay an employee portion. was like, well, at that point maybe you can't have that in the contract because the ordinance
doesn't allow for it. So, we'll we'll go through all that, but as far as termination, charter officers are always at will. Um, and uh but there is a provision usually for um a cause determination or a no cause determination. No cause determination
generally involves some sort of severance payout. A cause determination doesn't, but usually involves and actually has to by law allow for some sort of hearing because if you're going to accuse a charter officer of something, they need to have the right
to to address that those charges. Um, that's why you see most terminations whenever you see them around, they usually just go the the route of saying it's for no cause, even if it is for cause, just because it's it's cleaner and easier. Contracts for terms. Um,
I've seen those a lot and that's good. Generally, you'll put a um some sort of trigger date in it to be fair to the charter officer and the the city because like in this case, if Mr. Bate is not going to continue past, let's say an
initial term of two years, city's going to need time to to start advertising for somebody new. Um, and in fairness to to Mr. Abate, he's going to need to be noticed. You might have a two-year term, but then maybe back it up four months or
six months and say if it's not going to be renewed, notice will be given by whatever April 1, you know, so whatever a date certain so that there's a notice period and if that notice period passes, then it automatically renews for another two years and another two year, you
know, something like that. So, so there are a lot of options that we can we can go through and I can certainly talk to each one of you and see if you have any ideas when when we start negotiating something. Vice Mayor, well, the fact that uh
as we have the responsibility uh I'm not sure that we really need term limits because if we wanted to terminate him, it just took it would take three of us to do it. And I'm not sure that we I
I'm I don't know what normally other cities do, but I would I I would be reticent to put term limits in. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Member Stokal. Yes. And I I think that's where I was coming from and I appreciated Mr. Bate. Another thing that I do want to say that
I gathered from our interview and then even what uh member Nelson said that really makes me feel a lot more comfortable with him is he really is coming here because he cares about the city and he wants to see it. It's not a stepping stone for him. It's not like this is now I want to just sit here and
do nothing and earn a paycheck. He was fine with the same pay. He's He's not trying to um I I think he has very pure intentions and like I said, this week's been very challenging for me figuring out what best course of action because I
I agree with member Mscoso. Ideally, you know, I would want some other candidates to interview and see and I had to weigh that like what for me personally what would I feel comfortable with if we go out and we get some more interviews. I think it's also important to know that
he was a finalist for Cape Canaveral which shows the caliber of person that he is as a city manager and chose chose to withdraw from that because and risk you know you not knowing what the future of Titusville but what we would decide um took his name out of that when they
were planning to interview him um and I think that shows also his care and passion for Titusville um and I had weigh that too alongside um as much as we needed make our decision here and do what's best for the city. Um what's fair
to him and stability for him to make decisions about, you know, he will be moving now because that's a requirement. And so, um what does that look like if we go back out and we may end up picking him? We may not. Should he go look for other work? What if we don't get as good of a candidates and we lost out on him?
And so that's ultimately where what made my decision from and it really was split. Um because I part of me did want to go back and get some more. Um though I will say I I do question how many candidates will actually want to come interview here. um especially after I
have talked to some of them um and had some conversations about and and seeing how many pulled out um quite frankly and I and I think it's important to note that even with talking to our firm we used the worst that they've had and this has been rare has had two candidates to
interview. They have never had just one ever um given different situations. And so I think we're in a unique position here as well. on. So I had to weigh what is the reality of our situation of the caliber of candidates we will get to get interviewed and come here versus what do
I know having worked with Mr. Avate and seeing what he's done in his short time as being interim versus what I believe he can do if he were made permanent. Um and I do think that he would do an excellent job. I think that he will help move the city in the right direction. So
I I'm okay with going back to the contract thing. um you know, letting them work that out with the attorney. I don't know if we need to put a time limit on it or a year certain because I feel that that's not that binding. It really only covers potentially what your severance would be. Um which is
typically I want to say two months. So, I'm okay um not worrying about that. Thank you, member. Any other discussion? Vice Mayor Cole, I'll make a motion. I move that we appoint Mr. body as our
city manager. Second. I have a motion and I have a second. Any further council discussion? All right. City clerk. Member Mscoso? No. Member Nelson? Yes. Mayor Connors? Yes.
Vice Mayor Cole? Yes. Member Stokel? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you very much. Congratulations, Mr. Thank you. Uh you can now take your uh actual seat if you want. I'm back on duty right away.
Yeah. Believe it's called the hot seat. Yeah. All right. Next up on the agenda is our city attorney selection process. Um city manager. Well, first of all, I'd
like to uh thank the city council for their confidence in me and I will do 110% effort to make you proud of your selection. So, thank you all of you. Thank you. So, the next agenda item is city
attorney. We're turning our attention to the city attorney. What is your point of order, sir? This is not on the agenda. There will be time for public. It was an addendum. It was an addendum to the city agenda and it's it's available and it was announced.
Well, again, please see Wanda if you want to put a card in for it, but we're we're we're introducing the item. I acknowledge your point of order and hopefully have acknowledged the response. City manager Yes sir. As you recall last Saturday we
uh had a similar proceeding uh selecting a first candidate for um city attorney. Uh we found out through the negotiations that that candidate had decided to pursue a career opportunity elsewhere and declined to negotiate with us. So
therefore we are left basically we had a second ranked candidate and two other candidates that were not ranked. So, the option is potentially to authorize HR to negotiate with the second rank candidate if that's council's desire or to begin
another search or to potentially um and I don't know if Mr. Stokes would be willing to entertain becoming the interim city attorney. Well, okay, we'll strike that option, but those are the two options, sir.
Thank you, city manager. Member Nelson, I think we ought to negotiate with number two. Thank you, Member Nelson. Vice Mayor, I agree. Member Stokel. Um, I'm leaning toward that, I would say before we do that, my request would be
just because we haven't we noticed it yesterday for today, I would like to add it to our agenda on Tuesday, which I have asked our uh acting city attorney if we can still do that. We're within that time. that way public can have the chance to decide and weigh in on that.
Um, but yes, I am leaning towards that. But I I would like to make that decision on Tuesday after we are able to add it to our agenda. Vice Mayor, is it that it's against the rules for us to make the decision today? I mean, do
we have to delay until Tuesday? City attorney? I'm asking the city attorney. Yeah, you could you could make the the contract's going to have to come back to you for for approval. So, and that will have to happen later whether you make this decision to direct staff now or on
Tuesday. Um, but what staff needs at this point is to direction to start those negotiations. I think the the the idea is that because this was added on to tonight's agenda, you know, just a little over 24 hours ago because that's what the charter requires is 24 hours
notice. Um, this was very last minute, but you had already ranked these two as one and two. You just never gave direction to negotiate with number two. Um, but whether we get that process started today or Tuesday, either way,
you won't see the contract until your next regular meeting. Okay. So, there's no requirement that we have to wait. We can make that motion today and you'll put the wheels in motion is what? Yeah. I mean, yeah, you could make the motion and put the wheels in motion. That was that was that was
pretty good. All right. Thank you very much. So, there was some discussion. Everybody's been heard, but I need a motion if that's the way you're going to go. I'll make that motion. I will after the motion's made. So, my motion would be to go ahead and
negotiate with Ber Mckenry. I'll second. All right. So, a motion's been made. Of course, this was, you know, on the agenda. Yes, Mr. Johnson. Uh, city city clerk, are there any other cards other than Mr. Johnson? No, sir. Just Mr. Johnson. All right, Mr. Johnson. Actually, um, also Jesse Wright.
All right. I just want to make a suggestion. Um, I wonder, you know, this happened to me in a private sector when you have people coming in and apply, they get the job, but they're not sure if they're going to get the job or not. So, can the candidate actually make a
contract and sign a contract with a contingency of getting the HR involved at some points so they know they have a job instead of waiting for the HR to be approved? That's just a suggestion. Thank you, sir. Mr. Johnson,
Stan Johnson, you have my apology and Jesse corrected me. He told me about that there's there's an agenda. Yeah. And so so the the main thing I'm going to do is I'm just apologizing for doing a point of order there because I didn't have I didn't apparently I needed a card on that one. Thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. All right. So I have a motion. I have a second. Any further council discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, can you call the role? Yes, sir. Um member Nelson, yes. Mayor Connors, yes. Vice Mayor Cole, yes. Member Stokel, yes.
Member Moscoso, yes. Motion carries. Thank you very much. All righty. Now we're uh to petitions and requests, non-aggenda items. All right, Mr. Johnson, did you want petitions or requests? This pink card that you received is a
card I I handed out yesterday uh to uh uh Herman and me Miss Megan and to uh um to Tom. Uh and uh this has to do with what's with with with our choice of city
manager and the subject is something that is that is uh has to do with something you don't want to hear about. That's dishonesty and distrust of our government because right now right now the city of Tyville is committing
numerous crimes right now. That's what this pig card is about right now. Is that let me read to you what it says. It says questioned. How could anyone build a dam immediate downstream of houses already in the water your flood plane? How can they do
it? Well, think about it. Think about it. We've got actually we've got in in ditches and so forth. I've counted at least 10 of these obstructions and dams and ditches and they're all What? Let me
tell you what they don't have. There's no survey of the property. There's no survey of the wetlands. There's no compensatory storage. There's no contact uh to the uh FEMA. There's no proper calculations for compensatory
Oh, I no proper calculations for the one year flood plane uh and revisions to the one-year flood plane. And it's a violation of city code 12-11. All of those six are violations right now. not just yesterday but right now
these dams. So what is what is the city doing about this? And the thing is it's it's let's let's talk about this is a deliberate deliberate violations of simple logic and common sense. I just asked you the
question how can anyone build a dam immediately downstream of houses already in the one of your flood plane. When did this question come up? 1985. The city still there's still the answer is the same. How can you do it? You're
illegally doing it right now. The city is with their dishonesty and with their and we we have lack of trust is this this law is being broken right now by our professional engineers, by public works, by city council, by our
attorney, by administration. How can we trust you when, in simple logic, these dams are all illegal? The city is breaking them right now. How can we trust you when you continue with these illegal activities?
What what this act is talking about violation of simple logic and common sense. That's what you violate. So, not only just engineering, it's simple logic. Thank you, Mr. Common sense. Thank you very much for
listening. Thank you. Anybody else? All right. Seeing none, can I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second.