##VIDEO ID:slJg8t8tk08## e for e for for for [Music] [Music] got last meeting still on my board here guys all right I may need help but we can get started uh welcome to the August 27th 2024 6:30 p.m. council meeting we do have a quorum so I will call this meeting to order would you please join me in a moment of silence and the pledge to the flag I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands one nation God indivisible Li and justice for all city clerk would you please read the rules to speak yes sir individuals wishing to speak on agenda items must complete a signup card prior to the item being introduced those wishing to speak on cause of judicial public hearings must complete a signup card and sign the oath sign up and oath cards are available on the table individuals wishing to speak on non-agenda items May do so under petitions from the public present this opportunity is offered twice in the meeting and individuals may speak at either the first or second petitions but not both no sign up card is required citizens shall not comment on any issue more than once during the meeting all comments except petitions or requests must address the pending issue and citizens will be given 3 minutes to speak citizens wishing to speak on the consent agenda must submit a signup card identifying the items of interest each speaker shall be limited to 3 minutes to speak on the entire consent agenda all signup cards and Exhibits being submitted to city council shall be placed in the box on the table thank you very much in the interim Curtis or whoever's back there if you could come up here and get my uh computer working for me please in the meantime um there are no minutes to approve city manager May if I could while they're working on your computer I noticed that the last item on the agenda is uh I got something approving the settlement was related to the timon's case and given the agenda might be uh rather late or in the evening and out of convenience I I spoke to the mother whether or not they'd like to move that agenda up convenience so um we where do you want to put it whatever whatever Council might feel appropriate I just noticed it is the last item on the agenda we do have several items of new business certainly if they if they would like to keep it where it is I I just want to offer that for their convenience I'm sure that that they would like not to stay till the very very end so um hold on one second say maybe move it to tell me again maybe move it before to before boards and commissions I would I would say that as I'm flipping through here getting more organized as I arrive late um then I would move to be um take 16a and move it to just before boards and commission second I have a motion in a second all those in favor say yes yes opposed we will move that to 16 A2 right before uh boards and commissions all right city manager has departed not quite sure why this is going great start so far all right city manager we have moved for your uh information uh we have moved 16a to right before boards and commissions maybe now I'm not sure depending you have because I had no uh no meeting thank you so very much no minutes to approve and this is where I go to you for uh special recognitions presentations and Boards of commissions okay we're going to go before are you ready for boards and commissions because if you are this is where we'll put it okay let's go 16a okay uh City attorney yes sir 16a was the item under my report and this is a recommended action of approve a settlement of litigation in Timmons versus city of Titusville and authorized defense Council city manager designed to execute necessary settlement documents on August 20th the plaintiff on behalf Linda Tims on behalf of her child reached a tenative settlement agreement with the city of Titusville wherein the city of tyu would pay $70,000 to settle the plaintiff's claims City's defense Council Jennifer Baron and the city's risk manager recommended the city council approve the settlement the purpose of this report to council is to recommend the city council app approve the proposed settlement pass window sign in chamber council member Nelson I would suggest going ahead and settling uh the cost of litigations would be high and I think it would be more appropriate to go ahead and settle than try to fight it I think there is a c problem with causation I thought that from the beginning but either way it needs to be settled anybody else at this time would uh city clerk yes sir we have two cards um St cards please hey turn hit that there you go there it is good evening St Coco Florida I just want to point out um that the family is here and their son is here in a wheelchair sitting in the back of the room and I want to acknowledge and recognize that proted blank I'm I'm really ashamed at the fact that few years ago not every everybody was possibly on this Council when this happened when that massive sewage spill happened there was a man named Stan Johnston that went out to that Sandpoint Park and he posted warnings all over the park telling people do not swim here he was concerned he was worried and his worst fear came to life when a child was injured from the potential bacteria caused by the sewage going into the water and causing an alal Bloom Stan Johnson from that point forward I don't feel was ever the same he came in here and relentlessly every single council meeting brought up the suwage the sewage spraying in the air the sewage going underneath people's homes and since then yes we've updated the infrastructure and and things are being worked on but a child's life has been forever impacted and he will never be the same but I just spoke to him and I will say and I just want him to hear this on the record that this is this does not define you being bound to a wheelchair I know you have a bright future in front of you $70,000 will not bring back your health but what you can do moving forward is as a cancer survivor I can tell you there is no limitations no disability nothing that will stop you and I have a feeling that this incident and what you went through it's going to change the course of your future and you are going to make a difference in this world and I just wanted to recognize them thank you guys thank you well said the last card is Katie Delaney hello everybody okay my name is Katie Delaney um Coco resident and I just um I just had felt like I had to say something I feel like um while there have been improvements that have been made we all have to do better to make sure that something like this never ever happens again and whether that be fight for for state and federal funding so that we have more money to update our infrastructure faster um whatever we have to do we have to make sure that this never happens again and um yeah that's all I have to say thank you thank you Katie any other the cards yes sir uh I would I would say um I think we would all say and I think we said over and over again when this did happen this can never happen again um it's it's one thing to to do the investigation and what happened and sounds like this was a 1970s way it happened and we've got $40 million in infrastructure and all that I agree and I'm so glad we're moving forward but I don't think it uh is uh can be said enough that this can't happen again and I know that our city is doing all we can now and all the other cities Who and the country who are behind on infrastructure we need to make sure this never happens again and uh thank you uh city manager I want need to vote we need a motion okay yes I we have I even got into that part do I need a motion on that you do say that move you do move to approve the settlement app pending litigation and the amount of $770,000 in Tim versus city of Titusville authorized defense Council city manager or designate to execute the necessary documents second I have a motion and a second roll call vote member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member sto yes motion passes unanimously thank you city manager mayor vice mayor and Council we're on boards and commissions the Titusville environmental Commission accept the resignation of regular member James Jim JS y I'm sorry of Titusville environmental commission the resignation was effective 206 July 2024 the item was tabled at the regular city council meeting on 13 August 24 at 6:30 um member stoko yep I just wanted to share because we did table this from our last meeting I did get in touch with Mr y um we had a very good discussion if you recall he's served on that board for 20 plus years um we did talk about some of the issues and the reasonings why he uh might be resigning from the board um which was very informative and I did say you know you've contributed a lot he gave me a lot of history even before I've been on Council of what they used to to do with that board and some of the changes um that they were able to implement within the city and uh I just told him I said you know if we have an opening again in the future because I know you probably want to resign now would you be interested in coming back and he did say yes so I would just like to present that before the board too to just think when we do have an opening um if he's interested in applying I would like to have him back on the board again okay and appreciate you following up on that uh anybody else want to comment or any cards on that go ahead you are you saying something no I just wanted to say thank you because that was very important to me I know that the city manager did send us all the number but I I didn't want everyone to bombard him with phone calls and I'm just so thankful that you followed up with that okay any other cards on that cards all right the motion move to accept the resignation of member James J of the ti environmental commission second with with regret with regrets and and hope that he comes back in the future it sounds like he's not closed that door and appreciation for those 20 years absolutely absolutely uh so with that I have a motion a second roll call vote member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Cole yes passes unanimously city manager 6B is the ti spill uh correction the north Bard commission and Park and Rex the terms of regular members Andrew Connors and William Klein expire on 31 August 2024 member Klein has expressed his willingness and desire to continue to serve on the board as the city council design appointee has requested reappointment for a two-year term to expire on 31 August 2026 member Connors does not wish to be reappointed at this time currently there is one application on file for your consideration Mr Kevin Rosa has expressed his willingness and desire to serve on the North Bard Commission on Park and Rex as a regular member with the term to expire on 31 August 2026 um I normally say Council here but I'm going to go ahead and say uh I've been with um Mr Klein on the board for gosh eight years I think it's now man that went fast we got old anyway um his passion is second to none you can agree with him you can disagree with him he cares about uh our Parks he cares about about our environment he cares about Titusville and I think that it's nice to have him there I I don't know how it works out back when we used to meet once a month and I could remember what the meetings were um I I would definitely uh have sat next to you a lot and always enjoyed hearing what you had to say I I have so I appreciate that so I certainly will be in support of uh and again I feel the one who maybe is most familiar with this board because I've been on it not on the board but as a liaison for eight years and uh I think that uh build us great job so um that would I will get to that part so hold on um Council uh anything else on that and we certainly have oh the other young man where'd he go there he is got to speak to him a lot in the last couple weeks and I I think we've got another passionate guy for what he does and and the parks um and they all of it just like Bill Klein so uh I like both of these choices so I'll just leave it at that right now and see what you guys have to say and we'll let them speak anybody else at this point okay then go ahead and let's have the uh cards I have one card is Andrew Connor's come on up Andrew yeah I should have commented on you too because you're apparently not coming back right now so before you even say that um how how many years have you been on that Port six years six so right right after I got on basically uh we've got two really good board members there and uh both always uh represent our city and our County well and care about Parks uh I I know uh Andrew talks a lot about when he first got on here talked about I have kids you know and I take him into the park and he does I see him down at the parks all the time so um even before what you say I can tell you that uh that that board is going to miss you and and that the care and concern that you have so yes your your board well thank you very much uh Andrew Connor Titusville Florida um you know when I came up here and spoke last time and mentioned the the term limits um that was news to the City attorney and and uh fortunately he went and uh corrected the matter with uh the county and apparently that it will not be applying to our boards but obviously since I made that Public Announcement uh a very valuable candidate came uh up front and that was uh Mr Kevin and I feel like you know George Washington knew when it was time to go and I think that was very very clear uh when he came to to light as a potential replacement for myself um I mean my God you guys see the packet of information he submitted to you mean he had 300 signatures I my gosh he's done more prior to being on the board than I think some people on boards do so I I can't speak enough about uh the work that Mr Klein has done for our commission and uh for what I look forward to the work that that Kevin will do on that commission and I just look forward to supporting them and helping out as much as I can so that's why I came here tonight is to give both of them my uh biggest endorsement I can so well while you do that again I'll just have it end with I appreciate what you have done for us and representing us and and I've been there to see it so uh I appreciate that thank you thank you okay uh let's go uh Mr Klein you want to say something for us I want to thank you for your very kind comments well they're easy they really are it's easy to say I just want to say that October 9 2012 I came across an old email when I was getting a badge for being what they call a brave volunteer bardian responding as volunteers that's what got me first interested in parks and and on October 20 2012 I volunteered to work with Mi Elizabeth Melvin on a floating vegetated islands bats on Meritt Island this on a St John River Water Management test project approved by Troy rice this was when we were first putting in bats in one of the county ponds uh it's on Meritt Island and we worked with a high school and they tested the the nitrogen and phosphorus that was being taken up by these plants and then on October 201 12 2012 I volunteered uh oh no it was October 24 2012 I volunteered to work with Raleigh Berry on pepper busting at chain lakes and that's when I got to learn a lot about parks and we worked on trying to clean up a lot of the pepper trees we had high school students come in and we'd go in with machetes and axes oh pepper trees and uh take out pepper trees and then I was privileged with getting to work on the parks because they had seen me a little bit right and I really appreciate my time with the parks and thank you thank you very much I appreciate it any questions for Bill I see none and uh our next applicant and don't feel like you need to use all 327 pages of your application yeah sorry it was a little thick yes um I wasn't sure how to prepare but um I like to be the bearer of good news and I know in the past we talked about um a sand at Parish Park or a permit for sand at Parish Park and I just wanted to let everyone know that right now because you can no longer drive on Paris Park Beach this beautiful shell material is piling up every day with the little onshore waves so as long as cars can't drive into the water the horseshoe crabs loving this shell material it's so much better than what was there before um as far as that like I said I always want to have something good to say uh I lobed for the U natural preservation of the park I was originally against the plan that we have now but I kind of had to grow with it uh the trespass ordinance to keep our Parks from turning into uh RV parks in 10 cities uh I Lobby for that as well and like I said I wasn't exactly sure how to prepare for this but um let see if I have anything else here um I would just like to to be uh in an official capacity as an assistant to the parks appreciate your passion is clear when you speak to me it's real obvious and uh I appreciate it y thank you any questions I see none uh Council or any of the other cards council member Nelson move to approve uh Bill Klein and Gavin Rosa for the north rard Commission on parks in r with the term to expire on August 31st 2026 moving I have a motion and a second to approve both applicants uh City attorney we're good to do that both at the same time yes sir all right thank you very much uh roll call vote mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Cole yes member Nelson yes uh we approve you both we thank you for both for applying I lost my guy okay moved over there um and I will say at this time because it's appropriate and I've been on this liaison for eight years um I think we've lost a lot when we stop meeting once a month and we started meeting once quarterly I guess it is I don't know the ins and outs of what that was all about but uh I'm sure that uh we can can work on that because we've lost we've lost a lot of communication and uh with that I think you lose a lot of progress so we'll see how that goes but thank you very very much appreciate you both very very much city manager uh petitions and request petitions and requests from the public I think we have two cards that signed up okay I think that's petition request yeah um Joseph Ray and Dorothy C Fay yeah and Dorothy I really don't have any issues real quick your name and for and address for the record oh um uh Dorothy Pine at 280 Hill crust Avenue perfect thank you okay all I wanted was just an answer to a question okay okay as far as new businesses coming to Titusville I want to know why the Chick-fil-A was declined but now I seal covers down w 50 wow that's the correct me please if I'm wrong but Chick-fil-A has never been denied Chick-fil-A we begged Chick-fil-A to be here I've called the headquarters I've written letters I've had conferences before myself I know Rita pritchet did that I think tally did that I I can't tell you how we've begged them to come here so this is how it works in in politics sometimes we denied them oh my gosh if I was hoping you had good news and you going to say hey guess what Chick-fil-A's coming of course we get that all the time every Facebook post Chick-fil-A's coming so uh no we didn't deny him uh we love having Culver too um and uh we've got some more coming that think you know people will be excited about but I will tell you that um boy I been here eight years and for eight years I've been hoping that one day they're going to say you know let's go ahead and get there and uh it may happen it may happen but no we we have Den it them oh okay and uh no no I you know that's that's that that's that uh Social Media stuff no we didn't deny them okay boy I was uh no seriously I and they wouldn't even really meet with me they just kept sending me over to um general information we'll send you the general information I don't want general information I want a Chick-fil-A thank you very much uh any other card is Joseph Ray we do have a Burger King before you say it good evening uh Madam Secretary Council Mr Mayor Mr vice mayor and thank you for your time and consideration everyone has probably heard or read the saying quote together we can make a difference unquote once again this is my third request before you to enforce your own codes and laws in quieting the excessively loud white F150 pickup truck in Gardendale myself and another neighbor have been daily Disturbed since February even though I've read your codes nothing has happened besides kicking the can or better yet puning a senior official in Titus government has told me you are failing to enforce 36.2 72 among others and the santis and the County Commission have also told me the same thing I have lived in third world countries where if you wanted to use the bathroom in a restaurant there was a hole in the floor a hose no soap no tee this aside everyone had the civility to assure each other had peace and quiet during overnight hours is Titusville a third world country in this respect where you cannot enforce your own codes even when it impacts others Health and Welfare negatively I've been to meetings where you solve problems on the but I'm confused why this is ongoing and could happen do homeless people at the cold weather shelter have more rights to peace and quiet at night do renters have more rights than taxpaying citizens is this ongoing because the truck owner is indeed part of a friends and family Network as he has boasted could you please have the Integrity holding the sworn positions you have to enforce and uphold your laws and give all residents myself included the same peace and quiet that you enjoy how long will this take I appreciate your time and consideration thank you and I always appreciate the way you say it so we'll leave it at that but um as I said last time and uh if if I can perhaps get some uh back up on that uh I know code enforcement has been out there code enforcement even went out there when he was going to start it for the morning and uh can Chief can you come up and give me a little insight on that because this is not something that we've ignored this is not something we've kicked down the road and this is in third world of country stuff this is Code Enforcement going out there and from there Chief can you tell me where that went uh yes code enforcemen has been out there several times with the decel meter the code actually has it it's measured by decb and it did not meet the criteria um at all it wasn't even close uh in addition to that our Patrol folks actually sent the Traffic Unit out there maybe there was a traffic um something on the uniform traffic citation that we could um you know catch on to there was nothing I don't know of any other complaint so we have not heard from the neighbor that was just spoken about but we did a light canvas of the area and there were no other complaints so we have periodically gone out there to spot check but other than that it's it's meeting all the legal we don't have the authority to go outside of that and we have contacted the owner of the pickup truck and there is nothing that we can do to mandate something because we're not breaking any codes or laws that we have seen um and the apparently the friends and family that we don't know this this person is not friends and family what they're saying I don't know we don't have any control of what over what they say but I can tell you that this is not a case of a a relative or a member of the police department it's not that at all so quality of life is something that we are really focused on the things that don't necessarily meet uh and make the box score um crime obviously is what you usually see burglaries robberies uh shootings but the quality of life we actually go around and speak at homeowners and other Civic groups barking dogs even though that's you know we are very concerned at things like that so this is right up our alley on this and we have not been able to see any violations whatsoever and that's the answer well with all due respect sir um Governor desantis's office agrees with me so do the County Commissioners I have a petition that I gave uh your people back in March or February 16 people in the neighborhood signed the petition that the truck is indeed noisy I've read numerous codes and laws where it is a violation and you did allegedly take a decel reading but one of your own officers said that he would call me and he and I in the early morning hours would both go out and take a decibel reading I have a decibel reading meter I took my own reading and it came back way higher than what your alleged code officer took who no longer works for you so a lot of questionable things but I'm getting nowhere and you also sent an email to one of my other neighbors you didn't send it but the city did um her first name is Kathy and this was from Mr tson she was she is disturbed by this every day too she and I are both 20 20 yards from this truck firing up and my reading from 20 yards away was 89 I took a reading what is before we go further what's the number what's the magic number I I don't have that with me I magic number I'm sure you know allegedly according to what I was told it came back at 65 but the law also says you don't have to take it as far away from the truck as you want to you can take it right at the source but they purposely well I won't say it away well they didn't take it right on top of it and believe me if you're right on top of it it used to Rattle our Windows that's how loud it is only other thing that rattles our windows are the shuttles all right right and and with that anything you want to add to that otherwise I'm going to say the only thing I could say is maybe Mr tson and he can talk about that and get an idea because um I don't know what the magic number is if he's got and I don't know if his decibel reader is working correctly or not that's Way Beyond me sitting up here but um again I I will um well I won't because I'm gonna let Chief decide what he wants to do with that but if you want to have Mr tulson talk to him that'd be great we we have and it's just not it's not Landing our decel meters are calibrated everything is by the law our code enforcement is nationally a code enforcement is nationally recognized if there was something that they could do to improve the quality of life they would do it but it doesn't meet the criteria and we're just everything that we say and have said is not Landing um I can't speak for the governor's office and I can only speak that having worked with Chief Lao and uh and that department code enforcement they they in they desire to remove things that are undesirable whether it be trash or trailers or whatever it may be including deciple issues so at this point um we're just going to say agree to disagree that the uh the deciples are not reachable for us to to do anything at this point well um I appreciate all your time the only thing I can do now is I'll contact the commission on ethics all right thank you that's all I got thank all right uh anybody else all right city manager onto consent uh thank you Chief a through J um council do you have any questions for staff on consent agenda items I see none city council wait wait wait I do have one member Nelson um sort of skipping ahead I would like to pull 8 a city council do you want to pull any consent agenda items for grade A3 I anticipated what you were goingon to say city clerk do you have any cards for consent I have three cards for item 8 a uh mayor with your permission I'd like to read the title for the record thank you consent agenda item 8 a approve the contract award for landscape at Gateway uh consent agenda item 8 B approve the Willow Creek 2 Community Development District budget amendment consent agenda item 8 C approve the 2025 Medicare medical and Pharmacy plan options for City retirees for January 1st 2025 through December 31st 2025 consent agenda item 8D approve the consent letter investment advisor financial asset management agreement consent agenda item 8e approve the amendment to Hope hammock affordable housing development land use restrictions and subaward agreements consent agenda item 8 F approve the final ranking for asset management and operation software solution consent agenda item 8G approve an amendment to the man manate hammock sewer service agreement consent agenda item 8h approve the award of the contract for the fuel tank replacement consent agenda item 8 I accept an utility easement at river walk walk Grand LLC consent agenda item 8j approve a budget amendment to reallocate insurance reimbursement proceeds to procure a metal vehicle cover for tpd first responder vehicle eight is pulled if you want to consider that item separately we could do that first and then go to the rest of the consent sort of thinking maybe go through the rest of the consent agenda approve that and then go back to a yes ma'am either way that works yeah I guess that would because we don't have any cards on any other topics right right well then you um let me just clarify no cards on anything except 8 a right yes okay then uh Council anybody have any comments on the rest or want to make a motion i' move to approve consent agenda microphone please I think you're oh sorry move to approve consent agenda items uh B through J second I have a motion in a second roll call vote vice mayor Robinson here member stal oh she not here member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes may I think yeah we may we should wait for her to come we should wait for her I didn't realize she was gone um yeah let's uh let's just hold I don't know if we need to do a little recess here or not it yeah tell me what do you think you could go ahead and do AA if you want well I kind of like her to be here if we're going to call the cards too yeah 5 minute break oh or three she gets back or two oh May e e e e e e e all right after all that I'm like okay where we at you got a motion all right that's right okay we have the um how would you handle that uh city clerk since you've called our names you just need to call member st's name um I can call them again all let's let's start Lo that part over do that part over um vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes that part of consent agenda passes unanimously B through J all right now we move to uh a consent agenda so member Nelson you have your light lit up yeah um you you wanted it pull so yes I wanted to pull it because you know I go to the Y every day and I talk to every everybody in the Y and everybody going in and everybody coming out so um there was a concern of whether these plants that were selected would be plants that would not require a lot of Maintenance there was a concern that these were going to be more high maintenance plants which obviously we don't want to do if we can get away with something that will cost less to maintain so so I'd sort of like to have a discussion on that figure out um if these are the appropriate plant or not um I get member Soo I guess with that discussion it might be helpful if Kevin could maybe just explain where these landscape areas are um because I think they're in our major corridors and then what I I think part of it also was the beautification component um as well so I think maybe having a discussion of where they're located and what those funds would be going toward exactly I would is what I would like to hear yeah uh Kevin can you do that because I think that would be a nice H preface to all of this so these are the I95 entryways at State Road 50 and State Road 406 Garden Street um so the uh the improvements are landscape only uh if you look at the breakdown of calls 533,000 531 will go to the Landscaping 32,000 goes to the irrigation of the state 50s uh interchange can you say that again yeah so uh $533,500 643 remaining is the irrigation that's the where we split out the the the funding um capitalizing the irrigation not Landscaping Landscaping is not a capital item but that's the breakdown it's a it's a green hard it's a Green Landscaping only plus the irrigation needed at at 50 that Designer came up with they were instructed to do uh as best maintenance plan there's a maintenance plan what was provided was the plans that show the two sheets of the bid that were associated with plantings there are maintenance plans included in the planting package for both us and the contractor initial maintenance is by contractor then we'll make a determination that point whether it goes to our landscape contractor or to our staff um and back in 2021 when this project was moved forward for permitting and final design that was determined to do Florida friendly um not not Florida native only so the designer was given the pallet that a Florida friendly pallet to use and kimly Horn designed these and it it has taken almost three years to the day to have these ready for ready to go to a contractor it's within three days of three years so and that's uh a lot of the delays were the permitting with f.2 yeah yeah at least two years was with DOT alone I'm sure um when when you looked at it or when we were talking to Kimberly horn were we talking about um coming up with a plan that would be low maintenance we asked them to come with a plan that would match similar to the maintenance efforts we already have to apply for the medians of the state roads so as you know we we maintain all the medians of the state roads inside the the city and the shoulders of the state roads we have full RightWay maintenance requirements so we ask them to stay within the same realm of Maintenance not to add a lot of planting beds are requires to weed like we have downtown downtown has dedicated Staffing for that we don't in the exteriors of the city so so was a item to take but also they needed to make a a favorable entryway plan understanding that that has to be a higher maintenance because it is the Gateway not not a general median of the city so so we understood that was part of it and we left it to the designers to come forward with the best plan they could put forward what are we allocating per year for maintenance it for the entire for our whole RightWay group for those two entrances uh well this this will be maintained for the first year by the contractor okay so we won't be allocating anything at this point except for the cost and the bids and then we'll make that determination uh whether our landscape staff take it home that do rways or we'll give it to our contractor that handles our in and RightWay work for the state roads we'll make that determination as it gets closer um as you know we have a street maintenance manager who takes Landscaping to heart very much so so he'll he'll review that when it comes to be which which way we go whether it's contracted out or inhouse staff is his name Chuck yeah yes okay does he have an idea of what he thinks is going to cost I don't think he's worked that out okay comparably next year's C be maintained by three full-time employees uh this is not the same scale but they could be allocating a number of employees to this to these two gateways but our Landscape Group moves around the RightWay mous group does a lot of meetings already so really be up to him to determine whether that gets Incorporated with his group or they ask for outside assistance okay thank you member stokel yeah I think because I know we've been we've talked about this numerous times I think there was some discussion on like canopy trees um and we we had a discussion on safety like that was going to be our number one concern um first off with people driving here um and then looking at you know what the best native plants are um I think it's important to note this is not just like around the signs this is a big area for both of those exits correct yeah there no signs and the Gateway ENT I mean it's not just a small portion of landscaping we're it's a large it's almost the entire Gore area for the and to touch on the safety Factor State Road 50 at that point is still signing the 45 mph which does eliminate a lot of essentially the tree has to be a breakaway tree because traffic hazards are raised in that area Okay um will we see palm trees in here okay I just want to do the first one and um just quick and there besides the um Bea which isn't they're all Native okay I haven't gone through it was just one of the two that I quickly went through okay thank you I'm EXC I'm excited about this project I don't know whenever I'm like traveling or going off exits especially like Palm Coast and know there's different opinions about palm trees but they have a beautiful exit into their city um just going in there and it makes you excited to go into the City and so I'm excited to see what these will look like I know we've talked about them for years at this point so I think that um our citizens will appreciate it all right anybody else on council member or member member clerk uh call the cards please Casey on Miss K hello mayor K an Titusville tree team Maryland Avenue the Titusville tree team plants trees and parks at no expense to city or county before during so we consult with Parks and Recreation to plant the trees in such a way as not to cause a maintenance problem I have reviewed the planting schedule and plan for both the garden and Cheney intersections at I95 and am concerned that these plans might create a maintenance nightmare the $566,000 contract does not provide for ongoing maintenance it does provide for one year I just learned that this moment so there will be additional ex ongoing expense and we don't yet know what that expense will be the plan calls for the planting of 26 sable palms whose FR will continuously land on the roadway causing traffic problems at these busy intersections workers will need to enter the traffic frequently to address this problem Palms require frequent pruning utilizing Cherry Pickers another traffic issue then there is a problem with lethal bronzing disease spreading rapidly to both native and exotic Palms by transported disease Palms to our area so they bring in disease palms and then it spreads the Chinese fan palm included in the plants is particularly susceptible to this disease for the University any Palms to be planted should be certified disease free that cost $75 a tree but they can still become infected after the fact but at least they should be certified disease free when they are planted P Palms that die from the disease will need to be removed to prevent further spread Palms are not a good choice for these projects as well the 527 ornamental grasses to be planted will soon be overgrown by weed grass plants and other broadleaf weeds necessitating hand weeding it is very difficult to use a weed eater on ornamental grasses once these grasses become overgrown with weeds they are often removed as has occurred at dayfield Park and Parish Parks they just bow them down once they get Full Of Weeds 527 ornamental grasses the 51 Chinese Ruby Fringe shrubs Chinese Ruby shrubs on the plant schedule Thrive in zone s and 9 and may struggle to live in Titusville Zone 10 a these shrubs will need to be watered once or twice a week in the dry hot months can I have another moment what's a moment mean uh moment means um a minute and a half dang you're Norm with Ratt on three minutes what happened oh I have important things to say here all right I we'll expend you a minute and a half yes all go thank you very much maintenance workers will struggle to keep up with the trash thrown from cars into the Landscaping at these intersections indeed if not properly maintained rather than draw tourism T to Titusville these landscape projects will detract from the Gateway corridors in my opinion this is a poor use of mitigation funds which acred when developers remove thousands of trees those trees were reducing temperatures quering carbon reducing storm water runoff into the Lagoon and providing habitat for wildlife much better to use the landscape trust fund to restore those benefits to our community by planting canopy trees on public property throughout the city rather than these Palms on these high maintenance Gateway projects thank you for my extra minute and a half you only use 45 seconds all next card please Tony shff there you go chiffo Tropic street so I attended the fdot open house last Thursday about Paving Garden Street from I 95 to almost Dixie Crossroads and you know those guys they were not aware at all of your $566,000 566,000 17363 gateways project I'd like to remind the citizens of Titusville that the tree mitigation fund which was to be used to replant trees taken out by developers was diverted to the landscape trust fund and that is being used for the Gateway projects These funds could be better used to benefit residents in a community forestry program and I should should have known kimley horn was involved in this because the plan is so rotten for this town just like all the other plans they've presented on our comprehensive plan land changes but since the fdot is just repaving and removing the on street parking and making 7 foot wide bike Lanes it shouldn't interfere with the Gateway plans shouldn't but things happen and I think the two projects ought to sort of know about one another or at least inform so on August 24th 2021 city council approved the final design and permitting of the landscape gateways at the I95 interchanges the plan presented for these gateways to our city are fairly unimaginative and lack creativity I wrote that before I remembered that kimley horn was involved fairly un imaginative and lack creativity they're not exciting welcoming scenes like those that you see when you get on at Palm Bay or something like that Miss stokel it's just Landscaping on the exit and entrance ramps to the interstate why doesn't fdot pay for that anyway it's a waste planting non-native shrubs and palm species susceptible to the lethal bronzing disease it's a waste of time and money when an example at our city entrances could be made of the beauty of totally natural native plants and if you're going to spend the tree mitigation $566,000 plant some things that will live thank you for letting me vent thank you Tony next up lur Le Thompson lle Thompson Mims Florida I agree with everything Kay said and Tony said so there's no need of me repeating them what I do want to point out is in South Florida like in Fort Lauderdale and Miami day County they have stopped using palm trees for landscape trees because of the lethal uh bronzing disease and the lethal bronzing disease is it also is affecting sable palms and if you want to see what a dead Sable Palm from lethal bronze disease looks like there's one right in front of alligator Plumbing right in the middle of the median right in front of alligator Plumbing it is dead and the palm tree next to it is dying also one it's it's in our community look at the look at the Palm Trees of course they're Sylvester Palms but um the palm trees at wind Dixie they are dying the palm trees in front of the big storage unit um on Highway 50 um by by Brewsters ice cream they're dying they have lethal bronzing disease so we should not be planting palm trees at all these funds you know came from developers taking out native trees out of our community and we should be replacing them with native trees and our track record for maintaining Landscaping projects in this town is not good and I mean those both of those areas that are proposed for these gateways they've been Landscaping in the past the the remnants are still there all you got to do is look at the Landscaping at Highway 50 and Garden Street and and and there's a few shrubby crepe myrtles left and all the beautiful plumbagos and firecracker plants and all the all the really nice shrubs that they planted they're all gone there's kogan grass growing up the side of the hill at Garden Street we don't we don't take care of these kind of projects so it makes no sense to to spend a half a million dollars planting non-native trees and shrubs that we're not going to take care of and they're just going to die anyway that's not a good use of citizens money thank you thank you lot to think about um anybody else one more okay um William Klein Bill Klein three Indian River Avenue Titusville I just had a suggestion about what might be a interesting idea along the Gateway for planting the Florida Wildflower Association has had a lot of planting projects along different highways they'll use wild flowers and they'll have certain areas and they'll have articles sometimes in the newspaper or some other places telling where wildfly are blooming and they're using native plants native wild flowers so that people can see what Florida used to look like and I'm just wondering if this Gateway project instead of spending I don't I guess it was like 500,000 or something I don't know what the amount was but if we would get in touch with the Florida Wildflower Foundation talk to them about what they've had success in planting around highways maybe they'd give a much better idea of what we could use and another thing is if they use if the Landscaping takes a lot of grass that needs lawnmowers that it's not always a good thing to do and it's highly expensive if you select the proper plants for the areas and the height you can specify if you want it maybe twoot High 3 foot high but you can try to look for plants that won't outgrow their boundaries and need a lot of Maintenance but I'm thinking if we would contact the Florida Wildflower Foundation they might give some very good advice at what we could do with our gateways and make it look like Florida and then that money that we save we can go into planting trees in our parks and in the city to give shade trees that would have been financed from what the developers have given to us for them to develop and instead of just making a Gateway that only visitors go by because most people in Titusville aren't spending their weekend sitting at the Gateway we could give them the trees and we could use wild flowers at our intersections thank you thank you I know we got cards right uh Kevin let me just ask you um kind of put your your hand on what do you think I've heard in the past the palm tree issue and the the diseases that the palm trees get and that's a concern um and one of the things that was said I don't remember who said it but just in my own yard sometimes I I plant these low growing uh I don't want to call them grasses but the point I'm making is when somebody said you know then you it's hard to get the grasses that grow and with with the weed whacker they they do get combined I'm I'm not the expert I don't even know all the stuff that's going to look like so just kind of give me a rundown of maybe what you rebut to what they said well we rely on the landscape AR to come up with the plan keep in mind say again I'm sorry we rely on the landscape architect to come up with a plan that's that's not our specialty we don't have an urban forestry division we do not have Landscape Architects on staff we maintain rways so I'm an engineer by trade this is not my forte so we hired an architect to design brought forth Concepts gave options they designed and permitted what they could get permitted through the state if you want to make changes to what they have permitted we'd have to go back to Dot and see what they're willing to allow us to change I know in the 45 mire areas they are not going to allow large tree Hardwoods to be planted anywhere they are a traffic Hazard do will restrict that so that's that's the the two sides of it there I can't tell you what they would allow would come into play because they are considered a breakable tree but I can't say they would they I don't foresee them allowing oat trees inside of anywhere that could reach the 95 due to also hazards to the roadways themselves so good point so but yes any heavy landscaped area requires maintenance we we have instaff maintenance we also contract out maintenance um as you know the intensity like downtown like I said does take three full-time employees in the coming year to retake that so those items are going to be you they do take time and material contracted or inhouse to maintain we have had um and again haven't been here a long time we have had uh our entryways readone look good different plants is do we have irrigation out there or or what happens with the the crep myrtles or or the plumbagos or whatever what happens that they're not able to make it St Road 50 has the irrigation the the primary reclaim system of the city runs down State Road 50 so all of our medians on 50 are tapped into a reclaim system us one is on pable irrigation uh downtown is on three large meters for poble um The Garden Street one is not intended to have irrigation now we'll have to evaluate if that becomes a need our staff can set up temporary irrigation as they need uh we've done that when we've done plantings at KK point and other places to to meet the the need for water through our water truck systems and such um so but the state 5050 side is getting a dedicated full irrigation system designed by the architect all right Council M Nelson I have to say if nothing else I'd like to get rid of the palm trees because I think that's going to be a problem for us in the future and if we have to table this let Kevin talk to do maybe talk to Chuck about what really is going to be the easiest to maintain I mean I appreciate the landscape architect doing this but I don't want to see us you know two three years from now having to replant trees so that's my thought I would prefer to table it find those answers I wouldn't be opposed to that either because the two things that stand out in my mind is because I know Laura Lee and and folks have talked about the uh palm tree disease I forgot called it but uh and I've seen it and I've seen it happen so I I don't want to get caught up in that but at the same time very good point hadn't thought about you can't put big old hard trees out there where people are going 50 miles an hour so I had thought of that so um member stoko yep um I'd be okay with tabling I'm not I don't I'm leaning towards keeping the palm trees at this point uh maybe we can get some more information but I've also seen palm trees not have the disease and see if there's things that we can to prevent it or if they do get it what can we do um I especially the Garden Street exit I I feel like I've heard people and citizens say constantly getting off it's like that's our entryway into our city and it's just not been Pleasant in my opinion and I hear people saying you know we need to keep up with it and I agree and so my hope is that we do something nice something that the citizens can be proud of and then we do maintain it when it comes time for our budget process um as we're increasing our revenues that's what I would like um I don't want to spend all this money and it be something that the citizens aren't proud of that it doesn't look nice that it's not something that they're going to take pride in and gets run down in a year from now um so I would like it to be nice the number one priority I always say is safety um I do prefer native uh but again I don't want us just to say oh there could be disease there could be this without doing you're saying yeah you know our due diligence to say something that maybe it's a kind of palm tree you get too I mean Point making is even at that maybe there does need to be a tabling so we can get these things because I agree let's not spend that money and all of a sudden four years later it's like let's do it again because think of it um the mall over on Harrison yeah that's like two years old yeah and if the trees are dying they're going to have to replace in there vice mayor yeah that's what my thoughts are I've had resident City uh R residents come and ask me we have a ugly entryway uh into our city uh can don't we have native yeah palm trees that we can use that that work we do we do why why are we organ on what type of if we have one that looks good that was born and raised here why don't we put it out there sir the thought that's all I got there put it out there um remember now see we make a motion on this I would move to table item a the award of the contract for the landscape Gateway four weeks six weeks what do you think K the C of that would be I don't think this contractor's pricing can hold that long so if we're doing a redesign it might might also be deemed that would be competition needs to be rebid okay especially if we're holding for a long duration I think we're asking a lot for contractors to hold a price that's now been disussed publicly so and have a change in their contract plan I think necessitates a change in a a rebid of the project okay after it's modified at the council's direction so as part of this I would ask that you consider if we're going to change it consider um wild flowers maybe instead of presses um but for the time being I would move to table this until future a future meeting question remember St a question yeah does that mean um it would have to go back to fdot yeah for approval my experience with do is if you change one thing in the plan they will have to be notified and rep permit what if we never known them to be very flexible in their permitting what if we table to the next meeting do you think the pricing could hold to the next meeting I think that's probably within the I believe most of our bids are out for a 30-day period from acceptance okay that's what would be my request I would not necessarily want to go through the whole redesign F do I mean we've we know how long this process has taken us this long um but that will give us at at least a couple weeks to get some of our questions answered talk to staff talk to Citizens and talking about uh tbling it to the next meeting okay so the motion would be to table to the next meeting to get some answers what kind of answers I mean when we table this what do we what do we what do we it's one thing to table it and it's another thing to say this is what we want to do would agree then it's another thing to say table it and let's talk to people we've got to do something how about if we table it to the next meeting I'll keep quiet let Kevin figure out what he needs to do I don't think that's going to work I I think Kevin feels like he's done what he needs to do I think what I'm hearing is there's a desire to redesign the project yes which to me necessitates that this bid is no longer valid right I don't know if I would be in favor of redesigning yet I think that I would like to know better of okay if there's this lethal bronzing disease are there things that we could do to prevent it um what if to Vice mayor's point are there other palm trees that are native that would be feasible to use like there's just a couple questions that I would like answered uh before I would say yes I'm ready for redesign I think so I think that in the time frame we're talking about for the tabling that would be about as best Kevin could do and that would be to find out this palm tree works this one doesn't right um this PL you know kind of just double check on everything and see what we've got and then we're going to have to make a decision if we can't send it back and just for not to say Palm is a native tree right so that is the thank you for that so those are the kind so those trees are if so if we want the Chinese fan pal is not there's one on the project believe it's on Garden but um if that's kind of questions we do we need to get some clarification designer we can um we can reach out to I can have the designer reach out to dot to see what their flexibility is on certain items like land cover sorry ground cover they may not have a problem with changing but I can't you know I can't answer for them and then I certainly can't answer for the at the very least you can go back to the people who have designed this and say we have some concerns about the Palm disease and we have some concerns about native plants Etc if you can get us a little bit more on that that' be better than where we're at right now we have a motion on the floor for member Nelson however I have H vice mayor okay yes as as we decide this we have to understand that uh as we go back to the uh the architect of this project is costing us money to make a lot of changes so we don't we don't want to make we don't want to get crazy with the the changes so yes sir that always keep that in mind you know just get settle on something and and stop changing it time to move forward okay member Nelson you have the motion out there the motion is out there continue it or it to the next meeting second I have a motion discussion just one more thing motion second with discussion um also Kevin it was mentioned I think Kay mentioned it uh $75 for certified disease free tree I would be that would be part of the if that's not included with could that potentially be something we add as well um so I think that just gives us a little bit more time to yeah the other thing that as far as discussion if we could ask make sure that our bid won't run out we know what the contract go back to the contractor and advise him as to what we're doing the investigation we're doing to make sure that uh the bid still holds and if we have to rather than have to go out and rebid if we could work with the contractor and the architect at the same time to try to come to a reasonable conclusion okay yeah I think we're all on the same page we kind of got got a little more clarification we don't want an an entry way that's going to look really good for 18 months and then we got to do it again and and I'm not saying that's going to happen I'm simply saying that that needs to be looked into so we have a motion for member Nelson we have a second from Member Cole roll call vote member stokel yes member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes all right item a is is tabled and we'll Kevin I appreci appreciate your patience with that we we want to learn a few more things uh City Manager on to uh item 9A which is resolution number 13 2024 confirming and certifying the rate and annual storm water utility assessment role on uh August 23rd 2016 city council approved resolution number 19 2016 electing to use uniform method of collecting non adorm storm water assessments levied within the Incorporated area of the city as authorized under Section 97. 3632 Flor statutes on June 13 2017 city council approved an interlocal agreement between Bard County property appraiser Bard County Tax Collector for services related to storm water billing non adorm assessments this assessment incorporates an 185% increase for fy2 as required under Section 1936 32 floor statues Public Notices were mailed to each person owning property subject to the assessment and the ad was published in the newspaper with the date and time of the public hearing the resolution certifies the certifies the storm water utility assessment role for the municipal fiscal year beginning October 1st 2024 and authorizes the mayor to sign the C certificate to non-ad theorum assessment role for transmitt to the tax collector's office staff rep rep recommends that you approve resolution number 13 2024 May vice mayor um I just left okay no worries uh Council anything you want to say on this one cards please card remember Nelson move to approve resolution number 13 2024 confirming and certify the rate an annual storm water utility assessment role second I have a motion and a second roll call vote member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes a motion passes unanimously we move on to First readings which means there will be no vote and no action City man first reading of ordinance number 23 2024 the Titusville environmental commission's powers and duties ordinance on August 21st 2024 the Planning and Zoning commission recommended approval as presented 61 City attorney will read the ordinance for the record thank you ordinance number 23 2024 an ordinance of the city of Titusville Florida amending the code of ordinances chapter 31 article 9 Titusville environmental Water Resources Commission by amending section 31121 powers and duties to incorporate the Tre City USA standards providing for separability incorporation under the code and providing for an effective date um and anything Council wants to add to that no city clerk cards one card Tony shff Shalo historic Norwood house here to cheerlead for the Tec they have demonstrated a deep commitment to shaping Titusville growth in an environmentally friendly way the depth of work behind the recommendations your Advisory Board brings to you is amazing I am amazed to live in a pool of experts who happen to live here too who are concerned citizens willing and able to give their expertise to our city not for profit or gain but to maintain and improve our natural environment because we live here citizen experts who range from arborous to Rocket scientists are willing and volunteer to to do research share experiences field data and scientific opinions based on facts and actual data contributing to your knowledge and the function that you have as city council please continue to show your respect if not your admiration for your environmental commission wanting to take on even more responsibility what a group wow oh Tony vote Tony thank you Tony um thank you Tony um any other cards no all right we are first reading no vote no action City Manager on to Item B which is smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment SSA number six- 2024 Tranquility this contains ordinance number 24 2024 and ordinance 25 2024 on August 7th 2024 a lot of 202 24s the plane and Zoning approved this 70 City attorney will read the two ordinances for the record ordinance number 24 2024 an ordinance of the city of tville Florida amending the code of ordinances by amending ordinance number 60 1988 which adopted the comprehensive plan of the city of Titusville by amending the future land use map by changing the land use designation on approximately 6.3 plusus Acres of property located east of South Washington Avenue US1 and north of West NASA Causeway c405 having Bard County partial ID numbers 22 3535 002 and 2235 35001 from the regional mixed use and conservation future luse designations to the regional mixed use and conservation future L use designations to match the boundaries of the surveyed Wetlands providing for an effective date ordinance number 25 2024 an ordinance of the city of Titusville Florida amending ordinance number 5 1993 of the city of Titusville by amending the zoning map a part of set ordinance by reference by changing the regional mixed use rmu and open space and Recreation o zoning districts to the regional mixed juuse rmu and open space and Recreation o zoning districts to match the boundaries of the surveyed Wetlands on approximately 6.3 plus minus Acres of property located east of South Washington Avenue US1 and north of West NASA Causeway St 405 having provard County partial ID numbers 22 3535 002 and 2235 35001 providing for an effective date all right Council anything on that cards um Mr Honeycut is just here if you have questions first reading anybody have any questions for Mr hyot I see none City Manager on to rezone application number 1 d224 at 2300 Columbia uh this is the first reading and at August 21st 2024 uh Planning and Zoning commission recommended approval as presented 70 the City attorney will read ordinance number 26 2024 for the record ordinance number 26 2024 an ordinance of the city of Titusville Florida amending ordinance number 5 1993 of the city of Titusville by amending the zoning map made a par of set ordinance by reference by changing the regional commercial RC zoning District to the community commercial CC's owning District on approximately 3.69 plusus Acres of property located at 2300 Columbia Boulevard having Bard County partial ID number 22 3529 av1 127.0 providing for severability repeal of conflicting ordinances and providing for an effective date all right Council cards no cards C manager now let me just squ and say this uh first reading no action no motion okay on onto item D which is rezone application number 2-202 24 located at 1606 South Street this is the first reading of ordinance number 27 2024 at the August 7th 2024 meeting the plan and Zoning commission recomended approval as presented 70 ordinance number 27 2024 an ordinance of the city of tville Florida amending ordinance number 5 1993 of the city of Titusville by amending the zoning map made a part of set ordinance by reference by changing the single family high density r1c zoning District to the multif family high density residential R3 zoning District on approximately 044 plus minus Acres of property located at 166 South Street having Bard County partial ID number 22 35429 providing for severability repeal of conflicting ordinances and providing for an effective date Council I see see none cards all right City man we move to Old business first readings are over on to 11a which is old business this is school zone enforcement cameras this is an advisable building on implementing a school zone speed detection system the police Command Staff has conducted a study into the new standards of City Zone camera enforcement program staff has found that the the school zone enforcement initiative has proven to be highly effective at reducing speeding in school zones and comes at no cost to the city statistics have shown that the use of these cameras reduce violations by up to 80% reduces crashes increases in compliance with speed restrictions and other agencies in the state that are utilizing them have found them to be highly effective Chief's here to talk about this initiative and this is advisability for us to move forward or not Chief good evening thank you for being here uh major Gonzales is going to be U taking point on this so I'm going to turn it over to uh major Wright I'm sorry patri Gonzalez it is almost your bedtime N9 o'clock's coming so hb6 57 was a law pass that just went into effect July of 2023 what it did was it allowed Florida uh Florida to implement well local governments could Implement uh automated speed detection systems previously it was unlawful to use those so essentially they're designed to reduce speeds in school zones what has happened is folks have we get complaints one of the number one complaints we get in the or speed uh we get lots of complaints in school zones specifically and we cannot dedicate an officer to every single school zone it just it isn't feasible uh we get a lot of calls for service so this is considered a force multiplier if you will currently Florida is the third deadliest state for pedestrians um you have a 90% chance of survival if a pedestrian struck by a vehicle going 20 M an hour you have a 50% chance survival if pedestrian is struck by a vehicle going 30 mph and you only have a 10% chance of survival of pedestrian inst struck by a vehicle going 40 miles per hour technical difficulties huh yeah hold on that I see it there we go I think I think they're hooking us up in the control room clearly I'm not qualified so pedestrian deaths are on the rise so since 2010 as you can see there were 4,32 pedestrian fatalities 2021 7,624 that is a 77% increase as opposed to the just a 25% increase in all other traffic fatalities so pedestrian deaths are on the Rock W rise Nationwide that's where this program is come into come into play Georgia specifically was one of the first states to kind of get on board um we've spoken to a lot of agencies in Georgia and it is extremely successful some of the success is it has an 80% up to an 80% degradation rate meaning speeding in those school zones drops 80% after one year year um they've even said that speeding Citywide has dropped um really important we're the the city of Titusville and the Titusville Police Department were leveraging technology that's the future in law enforcement is leveraging technology to be more efficient and what we do every day so this particular program what happens is a company we would contract out with a company if if if this passes we'll contract with a company and they'll implement automatic speed cameras so what the speed cameras do they're essentially the same thing as what an officer does in his car whether we have a radar system or a handheld radar system or lar system which is laser most of them operate off of laser which is a little bit easier to read Because when when radar uses a Doppler signal and you have to visually see which car is speeding so if you have a a line of cars coming at you you have to pick out which one's speeding the the radar will tell you the fastest one then you got to pick out which one that is it's kind of difficult a laser it simply points at the car and it'll tell you the speed so in these machines are extremely accurate they set up there's there will be two cameras in each uh school zone one facing each way and how it works is it only works during school hours so if school's not in session the cameras don't work it's 30 minutes prior to to the beginning of school and 30 minutes after school if that makes sense so the only time lawful reason these cameras can be used is during school because the ultimate goal goal is to save lives and protect our children so essentially what happens is and it gives a grace period so everybody thinks that you know if you're doing one or two miles over the speed limit I'm going to get a citation if an officer catches you in a school zone doing one or two over they can issue a citation the camera program only works when you hit 11 over so there's that Grace there Here's the the big difference in this program it's only a civil citation so it's a $100 civil citation if you look uh to the right of that a uniform traffic citation in a school zone if you're doing 1 to 9 miles miles per hour over it's $159 fine and then 10 to 14 is 309 uh 15 to 19 is 409 20 to 29 is 459 and 30 plus miles hour is over $600 fine uh points are assessed as well so it starts as about a three points on your license and many people don't know this but if you get 12 points in 12 months your license gets supended um and obviously right now insurance rates are out of control I don't know about you guys but even my our insurance is jumped up it's extremely expensive in this civil program that doesn't affect insurance at all there are no points it's simply civil through the city um we would just have to pass an ordinance to allow that and then you know the law says you could use your current code enforcement board or you could use the current magistrate or you could potentially um contract out with you know um the the magistrates off the traffic office when we do traffic hearings so getting into the speed study I wasn't really sure if we were going to need it uh we had a independent third party come out and and and do a speed study it was a two-day study and it was back in December and as you can see here here are kind of the results so every school we did every Elementary uh and every High School I think except uh astronaut because there's no technical school speed zone there and and sculptor doesn't have one either but every other school has one and here's what we got so it'll show you the highest speed during this the study uh you had a couple really high ones Oak Park 80 almost 89 miles an hour and then during school so the highest speed during school was 63 miles an hour the important part is the percentage of vehicles violating the speed limit during school hours so at Apollo you're looking at 27% coina was 64% of the vehicles Imperial 50% as you can see and then it'll show you um just in this two-day period how many violations we had that's a lot of violations in in in two days if you Oak Park is 1 , 280 violations um that's a lot of people violating the speed and if you look at some of the speeds you see up there 63 miles an hour um that's going to kill somebody if they hit it and if you guys remember a couple years ago unfortunately we had a um crossing guard her husband uh was assisting her and he got hit and killed up in uh Dairy Road by by a car so these are the the middle schools and and and the high school again uh you can see the only one I would say the one at Titusville High School at Hopkins there there's a 10% um 10% of the vehicles were speeding but again if you look at um you know the vehicle count and how many actual violations there are I would say there probably could be You could argue a need there as well so looking at this program initially I was a little bit hesitant because I I wasn't sure what to expect but I can I can assure you we have a problem with speeding in our school zones and my argument would be how do you say no to this program if we value kids' lives if one kid gets hit and killed in a in a school zone and we don't do anything about it how do we explain that it's on our conscience so that's where I said look I I think this thing is zero cost to the city um no points on license it's a civil citation I don't know how we could go wrong questions question ah um member Nelson so how do they get paid is it the1 it's funded through this program that's exactly so they you know the the citations the $100 citations right so the statute actually spells out exactly how the where the money has to go $60 goes to the local government whether it's County or municipality uh $20 goes to the state general fund you know the states got to have their yeah um $12 goes to the the school districts so and they they have to use that toward either School safety or transportation to um improve transportation and safety for the kids uh I think $3 goes to a training fund for FDLE uh uh commission for training on law enforcement and I want to say maybe $2 goes to I forget exactly what it was but that that's essentially all the money you know so so how does the company get their money so they're going to take that cut from the $60 that goes to the that goes to the city they'll take their cuts out of that that's how it's funded so even if we hope right that we reach zero that would be the goal the problem is every single company we've spoken to and every agency we've spoken to it hasn't happened yet so I doubt that happens uh but even if it does it's zero cost to the city the companies eat the cost okay so major how out of that 60 bucks how much does the company get well it depends it all varies so that's where there's different companies on some do um some will do uh a per citation cost some do Revenue sharing it just depends and they leave that up to the city to make that remember this is just advisability to move forward we haven't contracted anybody we haven't bid the contract there's several agencies we can't s sour Source this it's specifically requires that we bid it out well I'm sort of shocked at the this speaing um 67.5 miles an hour I'm like Oh my my God so I don't see how we could say no there's a couple of studies uh since um the pandemic speeds I mean I dare you to go on I95 and travel from here to Melbourne um I mean the speeds are in excess of 100 in some areas um and so that is a phenomenon that I I don't I don't understand the correlation except for when everything was on shut down people were just treating it like the Autobon and they never came out of it uh the other thing uh citations uh uniform traffic citations Nationwide are down close to 30% and so a big survey was done through all the Chiefs associations and what has come up was you saw the citations that were on the right column right you know if you're in the 20 over you're talking a $3 $400 ticket officers have a very hard time writing that officers have a very hard time giving a ticket like that because that could be the difference between groceries for your kids and so that's why Nationwide and the reason for that there's a lot of very good organizations that will um politic to get hey we're going to get $2 per citation you know and this organization's going to get a $150 per CIT and this when so when Tallahassee keeps saying yes yes yes it's just driving up the cost of the state uniform traffic citation and that's how it's gotten out of control so this program does not have that that's why it can be something that's manageable and again as the major said our goal is to have no violations that's our goal our goal is to have complete compliance and people obey but it really is an eyeopener to to sit at a school zone to sit somewhere and just watch watch the cars go around stop school buses I mean this is something that goes on all over the place but um member Cole you want to ask a question yes uh I love the program my only concern is you know I looked at the speeds so is $100 the most you can charge because I mean if somebody's going through a school zone doing 40 50 miles an hour I can't understand why that would be $100 versus somebody going 20 M an hour I mean can we charge more well so that's the interesting thing because the officer would have to observe that so here's the problem I'll go sit in the school zone and I'll get an offender and we'll stop them I can only stop that one offender so what happens to the rest of the people I can't stop them all you see what I mean that's what tends to happen so again I would rather get more offenders because here's what's going to happen I don't think it will take long for people to figure out uhoh you know and they're going to pay attention so I think we've all been driving through school zones I know I have and I'm like whoa and you kind of hit the brakes cuz you don't really cuz why I wasn't paying attention right I bet y'all pay attention now okay one of the other um uh Ripple effects to this in a positive manner is the company puts up layers of signs and um lights over the top so just the awareness of you're about to come into a school zone will be much more visible all on their expense to do that so I mean this is everything with this and uh Jeremy has done a great job talking to the agencies outside of Atlanta and and all as a matter of fact we're you know possibly going to take trips to to see the success you know their successes and their things that they've learned that didn't work well um but they all said without a doubt and and the phenomenon that I would have never thought was the phenomenon that even in non-school zones the speed throughout the entire city that had these cameras went down and that's that's an effect that I would not have anticipated well member stoko yes um just a few questions and I think some of them have already been answered city has no expense and we will collect nothing either so we're this is just a we're saying you can provide the service in our city essentially well you will collect um because $60 of that citation goes directly to the city now the okay camera program is funded through that money so in the end if we don't if if let's say our drivers are you know our community here are are Law Abiding and and the program works and there's not a lot of citations they'll take whatever they get so let's say you know it doesn't I don't know what the cost would be but let's just say they say okay it's $2,000 a camera okay they will take that up to that point and then we'll owe nothing after that so if they don't make the money that it costs to put the the equipment there it still costs nothing okay but we would pay for the cameras poent to start or who's paying for the cameras again the company puts it out there with the understanding that they know they've been doing this a while all these companies they in other states and they know that there's going to be offenders they know that and they know that you know it'll generate enough to probably cover their program um and anything left over goes to the city and it can only be used you know for specific it it spells it out in the statute for specific um uh law enforcement programs so we would potentially we would get money from any of the citations but that money does not need to go back into this program because these this other company's providing it so it would go to something else that we are allowed to spend it on so it it does go into the camera program it funds it right whatever's left over so it depends on what they're going we don't have to fund it if we're not collecting any citations corre okay that's where I was getting a little confused it's it's very prescriptive about there's reporting that we have to do all the money is accounted for in each step of the way of where it went and you know how it was funded the city of ustus was the first city I believe in the State of Florida to to tackle this and um they have one school zone that is in a very bad area notorious for Speeders and the chief of police over there Chief Capri said he was flabbergasted at you know so the funding there's no nothing out of pocket for Eustace and he's able to fund the entire um school um school crossing guard program he was able to get much more visible vests and and a tire for them making it safer and at no cost to the city because it's all funded through this program yeah that's what I was thinking too I feel like this would also help us with collecting data as well to see how many citations which would be our worst area if we needed to have additional resources there if we needed to potentially have an officer at that site or location um the statute actually spells that out yearly we have to turn those statistics in and the companies will provide all that which I think would be nice um and then I'm assuming this company would be in charge of mailing out the citations and collecting the citations okay and then do we know yet um what it typically looks like as far as like number of school zones are they doing all the school zones do they pick a handful or do we so we would be the determinant of that we really haven't discussed it yet we' really comb through the data and decide where the best area would be for okay for this program okay yeah thank probably going to be taking the advice of some of the companies that have done these cameras elsewhere but uh we were debating yesterday and major Gonzalez said who's going to pick the one that's not covered that that yeah you know how do you how do you determine and you know and that's what I'm wondering if like there's a rotation where we rotate through or if there are additional funds collected could we then have more at additional school zone areas yeah that those are just some of the specifics but as far as advisability I'm I'm in favor of it yeah just just wanted to let you know when if you decide to enact an ordinance to authorize the placement of the speed detection system as part of the public hearing on the ordinance the city must consider traffic data or other evidence supporting installation and operation of each proposed school's zone speed detection system and the city must determine that the school zone where a detection system is to be placed or installed constitutes a heightened safety risk that warrants so when you're deciding which zone you will have the camera you must make these determinations per each Zone and we had three different spe studies done from three different companies and and eventually you'll see the data and it supports it oh absolutely and and what I'm seeing here is this is a a no-brainer on the advisability it it it it apparently costs us nothing may even bring in a little supplemental income and most importantly it will increase the safety in our school zones I I don't know that there needs to be a lot of discussion yeah it's all win-win win so uh I I'm so glad you guys have gotten involved in moving towards this program and uh anything we can do to uh help enhance that that would be great and I think that this will be our first chance to do that member Cole yeah just one other question okay they they sent out a bill for $100 okay if you sent out a ticket your Hammer is they're going to pay you because you're the police department but what hammer do does this company have to make these people want to pay the $100 yeah it's a good question uh I had the same question so what happens is after 30 days if they don't request a an appeal process right within 30 days and if it's not paid within 30 days now it becomes a uniform traffic citation okay thank you all right um remember we don't do anything with cards on this yet any cards one card K [Music] deling you talk so much I can remember if I called cards on hello everybody Katie Delaney um I obviously this is a a pretty good um program from from the sounds of it uh you know it's always great to make sure we're keeping the kids safe and whatnot um in school zones I would just um my only thing uh personally with this is a word of caution moving forward and I'd like to read you guys a quote those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety and so as we move forward with technology and um and whatnot uh working with our police departments we we have to make sure that we balance not becoming too much of a surveillance State and this is something that um when I lived overseas when my husband was in the Air Force um we lived in a place where there were cameras everywhere people could not freely move around without being surveilled by the government and so while this project seems like a great place uh or a great thing um we just have to keep that in the back of our mind of you know how we move forward with this kind of stuff because we don't want our county to become a surveillance state so thank you right thank you yeah L card U member Nelson um move to approve the advisability on implementing a school zone speed detection system second have a motion and a second roll call vote member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Cole yes pass as unanimously I look forward to seeing you move forward and see where that goes and um yeah that's those are some good stats I I again you know it's out there but you don't know it till you see it and I sure didn't understand the stats about uh or I didn't know the stats about if you get hit at 5 miles an hour or 15 miles an hour that changes everything I mean the survivability and slowing people down and like you had said Chief um and I've always been a big proponent of this and that is just let them know you're there they're going to slow down and so okay they're not going to get the ticket but more importantly they're not going to hit our kids God willing so thank you guys for being here appreciate that city manager have good evening yes sir we're on 11b which is synthetic plants and artificial turf on June 11th 2024 city council directed or discussed concerns with the location appearance and lack of criteria for synthetic vegetation Council requested additional information and research and examples at that meeting on July 9th 2024 the city council further discussed their concerns with synthetic vegetation the the city council's uh concurred with staff's suggestion to propose a draft set of standards for discussion prior to Preparing the ordinance and that's in your packet staff is requesting advisability to direct staff to evaluate the use of synthetic and artificial turf and Lawns and proposed an amendment to Land Development regulations were applicable the direction might be provide Clarity on the the existing code regul or expand its used in landscaping criteria Brad's here to take a the third round on this one you got anything for us I just want a new piece of information on page 1420 of your packet um I won't go over the other exhibits which you've already seen the memo and the research we did from other communities but on page 420 1420 rather is the new piece of information um at your last meeting you expressed some interest in providing some flexibility but there was also some concerns about how far you should go and so I offered to come back to you with some standards that we specific standards from another community so you'll see on page 1420 some of those standards those the most comprehensive standards I could find from another community that allows synthetic vegetation as part of uh Landscaping on on properties uh it's divided into three parts the first part there is locations permitted one of the things I heard at the last time this was brought up to you was about the location of where we would allow this if that is allowed uh side yards rear yards but not in front yards I think that was the consensus I heard um the second part of this list is titled minimum standards so it goes into some specific standards of material uh type um that would we would require that we' have to provide those kind of specs basically to us for us to evaluate and determine compliance with these standards so they give us specs of the materials this is one of the issues that the board of adjustment has imposed on staff uh We've processed already four variance applications related to synthetic vegetation by the board of adjustment in one community in one neighborhood and each time it's they have relied on staff to determine whether it will affect any other regulation of code specifically specifically uh impervious coverage maximums in the area of critical concern and how do we address that and the last variance that was approved the board left it up to staff to determine compliance after approving the variant which was difficult for us to apply the third part of the list here on page 1420 is installation repair and maintenance so it goes into very specific standards and criteria of how this material should be maintained for its lifespan um I'll be happy to answer any questions you see here uh we can if if you give us direction to go forward with this um I'll come back to you with an ordinance with some of these standards in place with uh with recommendations of where this might be allowed on properties as well that's again if the council is inclined to allow this flexibility member stokel yes so just a clarified this uh document on page 1420 is that what you came up with um to propose to US based on our prior discussions of what we had said is that what you're kind of presenting before us or it's an example I found from another Community okay it was the most comprehensive list some don't get this detailed um so you're trying to see our input on do we want something like this do we want to shorten it do we not like something in here is that kind of what you're getting at correct okay um I did have one question I think it was the third bullet um it said artificial turf turf synthetic grass may not be used as a barrier or border to a paved or asphalt walkway or driveway um do you know why uh that stipulation would be in there if it's like for a small area it's okay if not I'm just I'm I'm going through this list and I feel like it's I appreciate it because I think it did address a lot of our issues and concerns of hey we don't really like having it but if people want it for small areas of what's going to be AA um I I feel like you did a good job of trying to capture what we were discussing so just some of those little things I'm not too sure about well it says in that third bullet there artificial turf may be placed in the front yard and then it goes in further in that same paragraph how and where it can be placed in the front yard specifically so it limits it or prohibits it in certain areas of the front yard so that's the direction the council wants to go forward and allow some flexibility of artificial turf in the front yard this might be a condition we okay if you recall at the last meeting or the last time this was brought up to you I showed you some images of exhibits that were provided to us as part of those variances that were processed by the board of adjustment and one last example showed a patch of synthetic vegetation in the middle of a front yard y okay so um I think I'd want to hear from any of the citizens but I this is not my area of expertise I feel like whatever we decide on I'd like it to be a happy compromise of protecting our environment and still allowing citizens if if it's a small area by a pool if they need it um in their backyard and it's meets certain standards of turf um that are better Turf than not um I feel like we start with something and then if we find out that it's not working or there's something an issue with it we adjust it um but I'm open to suggestions yeah and I think I said this previously I I don't want to get into what I would call government overreach uh I don't want someone to have to worry about the um you know artificial turf Patrol coming by and seeing their Turf behind their by their pool or something like that but I also understand the environmental aspects and I also understand that it could get a little bit odd if it suddenly you've got astr turf which isn't well because it's not like it's going to be on a football field and Dallas it's going to so you don't necessarily want that in your front yard there's some fine Lin but I don't want to be the uh uh artificial turf police and I I don't want to have an overreach and I don't want to necessarily tell people how they have to do everything but at the same time there's some concerns with the environment and even the Aesthetics of what some of that can look like but however are we getting into an area that we don't have a problem I I've not driven down the road and seen a lot of artificial turf out in the in the you know in The Yards I haven't seen a lot of the only place I've really seen artificial turf is why I mentioned it I think my next door neighbor who has a pool has put some artificial turf around some certain areas because the Karine was killing any grass that he could have there so I don't know that this is a real problem to address or not but I do know we need to you know if it's an environmental issue great but do we have that issue out there I don't know that uh member Nelson so Brad the board of adjustment adjustments and appeals what were the reasons for people applying for artificial casss the reasons of the from the applicants um I recall one in particular where the applicants said that they were allergic to vegetation or allergic to Grass um another one was uh it's just low maintenance and it's such a small lot so 50ft wide lot at 100t Deep it's not a little land so yeah and then another one was um they wanted it as edges around a pool for example because it was just small and easy to maintain in that sense as opposed to uh putting in grass that would probably in their from their testimony would be more to maintain because they can't they'd have to go and pull it or Edge it they won't be able to use a mower so I've heard of of various uh reasons for it primarily because of Maintenance okay I got to say I don't like artificial turf I hate it then don't have any I don't have any but I also look at it and um The Memo from Brad talking about the um synthetic tur surfaces um have temperatures of up to 160° and uh destroying microbes in the soil contribute to the heat island effect doesn't provide habitat for wildlife or insects um I just I think it's a problem so I'm sorry but I think problem that my question is you think it's a problem my question is where's it a problem uh I I I just haven't seen it I haven't seen the only one I've ever seen is the next to the pool on my next door neighbor's house and that's on his backyard and he just came over to show it to me so mayor if I I may um part of what we're trying to address is all everybody having to go to baa to get a variance and baa actually suggested that we take a look at our code because they had seen so many variances for artificial t I think that's how my my guy ended up showing it to me so he thinks I can do more than I can do but any anyway so uh I I do think that he had mentioned that you know he had to go do something to be able to have that in his backyard and of course he wasn't happy about that so I can see it going around the pool um but other than that I not real crazy about doing it well I I don't disagree it's not the first choice I I think there be some concerns probably like the 20th Choice yeah um vice mayor yeah um two things and one is um your second bully point I think that I asked you to make sure that we don't cover everything in in in artificial uh uh synthetic gr and I'm I'm thinking about this side and rear yard how much yeah that would be my how much of the side and the the rear yard and then your last sentence and I'm hoping that I understand this correctly whereas artificial turff installed in compliance with this section should be considered as 100% pervious area and should not count toward the required minimum landscape area please explain that to me so the way the code is written right now it seems to say that there's a required Landscaping you put that in but if you go above and beyond that that's where some applicants have come to us and said well I want to put in some vegetation artificial turf in those areas I've met your requirement for landscaping for those or a single family home for example I put in the vegetation the shrubs whatever that might be I have this other so that percentage is met so above and beyond that I'd like to put in artificial turf that's okay what we've got however if we do that we don't have standards to really make sure that that is not going to create an impervious situation um like um prvious Pavement in our code right now we actually offer and allow a credit for pervious pavement uh toward your storm water requirements and uh toward your requirements to meeting the area of critical concern uh development standards in our wellfield areas but you have to provide specs to us that meet the code requirement as far as what we would accept so you provide that material to us and our engineer looks at it to see okay it meets the requirements as far as percolation and rate and so it won't be considered an impervious surface so sometimes we get uh requests to put in certain types of payment in there they can call it perious payment but doesn't meet our standard we're not going to allow you to get credit for it so think this statement you just read here is kind of going along those lines we would like to have some kind of standard in our code if we're going to allow um artificial turf that we can match against when we receive a spec to make sure it's not creating an impervious situation yeah it it's going to be interesting as you move forward um perous artificial grass what is the absorption rate compared to concrete or cement pervious uh rocks and so forth what are you how are you going to do that because you know it would be odd to say okay how much water or moisture should uh the synthetic grass LED through to the Earth uh to to meet our condition do we have a standard on that as of yet uh not an official standard for uh Turf no and that's what we here to do the city's engineer has utilized um there are there is a statement inside the code about 100% like for example area critical concern which the two four variances were uh submitted for on property inside the ACCC and it can't that development was uh most of those developments in there were approved and have to meet a um a stor water rating system of 100 years and so he would look at the specs they provided to us for the turf to see if it can percolate at that rate but that's not an official standard he's using a standard for storm water treatment basically um if we had something that like the perious pavement we have specs that we know we meet this criteria we know it's going to meet these other standards for storm water and percolation or whatever that might be it would be nice to have that as well for artificial turf since we've received so many requests already for it it's difficult for staff to uh ensure compliance we're concerned that we may end up approving something or some kind of material that might CA cause an issue later on those are as I BR it those are my two biggest things came there and the other one is kind of joke how do you nail grass to the ground with big Nails no that I wasn't being funny but I'm I'm serious that I've seen it being installed and they nail it in they put a Sandy layer below the artificial turth and the nails are about so long really and they nail it in and that's how it's that's how it's and it is very pervious that the the newer type of artificial grass is very prvious but however in looking at the standards here we we need to have some standards for it and I reviewed these and I I basically think that this you did a good job on these uh standards but I think we do need to have standards we're not saying you can't have it but we have restrictions on how you can have it agree remember oh call you remember call I'm good uh okay anybody else up here call the cards we have two cards um k a KY an Maryland Avenue just to be clear to everybody currently Titusville codes prohibit synthetic plant and artificial turf section 3321 F staff's memo to you on page 1417 provides you sufficient information to determine that synthetic plants and artificial turf are detrimental to the Lagoon the arer and increased temperatures really nothing more needs to be said Jason Cruz professor of turf grass management at the University of Florida per staff indicates artificial turf minimizes storm water infiltration needed to recharge aquifer and increases storm water runoff and flooding so he's he's the expert on this the stuff is petroleum based we need to stop using petroleum and releases contaminants like zinc selenium lead and cadmium which can contaminate the aquifer the Lagoon and when it decays and you throw it away into the landfill it's going to contaminate the landfill I mean what more do we need to know about this nasty stuff now I've had pools before and I didn't put artificial grass alongside of it I put strawberries so I could eat the strawberries while I was swimming I put Ground Covers you could put cardboard and then Mulch and pretty potted plants you could make it really beautiful around your pool rather than have this ridiculous stuff with all these nasty zinc and lead and cadmium no thank you for the University of Florida artificial turf significantly increases your surface temperature contributes to heat island effect destroys benefit icial microbes in the soil and provides no Habitat to beneficial insects as if we aren't hot enough already don't fix it if it ain't broke retain section 33 321f which indicates synthetic plans are prohibited the board of variances and appeals should continue considering the graning of variances on an individual basis four variances is not very many what's the big deal don't fix it if it ain't broke thank you next C Tony shff e e ech Chi Tropic street it's so simple I don't even have to read it don't allow artificial turf at all and then if somebody has to because they're allergic or they can't get grass grow by their pool let them apply for a variance and then these beautiful draft synthetic grass standards can apply for the the board of adjustments to follow and also Brad excuse me Mr Parish in here when installed adjacent to a seaw wall artificial turf shall be why allow it next to a seaw wall where we're trying to protect the Indian River Lagoon where our seaw walls are why allow it there at all section 3321 F of the city's landscape regulations currently States synthetic plants prohibited synthetic or artificial material in the form of trees shrubs Ground Covers vines or artificial turf shall not be used in lie of the plant requirements in this section and the section goes on about what the plant requirements are you're being asked to provide Clarity to the existing code or allow criteria to expand its use here in Titusville how much clearer does it need to be to say no to the use of synthetic or artificial plants trees shrubs Ground Covers vines or artificial turf how much clearer does it need to be there are further references scattered throughout the code repeating the prohibition of artificial turf and plastic plants shrubs grasses and trees do you remember the public derision and hum humiliation the CRA got when they proposed hanging baskets of plastic plants to beautify the downtown don't allow parts of the city to become the laughing stock and shame of polluting the Indian River Lagoon with artificial turf unless somebody's really allergic to it and just has to do it it ain't broke don't fix it thank you thank you any of the cards yes remember Nelson you want to make a move hold on vice mayor I have one more thing is that be considerate of um installing I almost said planning synthetic grass near uh natural bodies of water that's what that that really concerns me I don't know where we going to go with this but when you get began to plant artificial turfware uh synthetic grass where the runoff of that goes right into the uh the bays and and and so forth that's that's really a major concern of mine because the uh the uh rubber or the synthetic uh that it is made out of eventually going to start um exhausting some type of pollutant and uh that would be very very concerning detrimental okay go I don't think you want me to make that motion because my motion would be that we not allow synthetic tur en titis and you make Mo you need to make them yes okay now this is advisability to go forward or not yeah approve the advisability directing staff to evaluate use of synthetic or artificial turf and lawn with the idea of not allowing it so you're does that work I understand what you're saying you're asking for us to explore the option of clarifying the code AS specifically prohibit it as an option okay yeah wouldn't we want you to give us both sides I mean I would say if we're going to have you give us give an invisibility we'd want to hear you say this is good this is bad this is what we think we can do that if that's the I don't know that I want to give you an angle and say whether you I don't want to send it to you and say I need you to tell us why this is good and let's make it work or let's make it bad you can't do it I just kind of want your similar to what you got here okay give me an advisability on you know what what you think it could lead to what what staff things and that's what I would say but I I don't make a motion um member stokel y um I'm a little bit indiff on this item in terms of I think this was presented to us because baa kept getting applications um regarding it and it was for small projects and they kept approving them so my thing is I see remember Nelson's point I say one is we just do nothing and they keep going to baa and maybe we track how many applications if they start to increase and um we get an update from staff on that and so we do nothing we get that update or two based on what staff comes back and tells us with I I think what I heard was uh if someone was allergic to Grass they were approving it if it was a small portion um having something similar to what's on 1420 but scaling it back for some of the items that I think were brought up um you know maybe not why do we need to have it in the side or rear yards as long as it's not being seen like rather have more strict guidance on it so those are the two options I'm seeing because and the reason I'm saying that I'm not having a bunch of people in here saying I need Turf I need Turf this is too hard and I'm not seeing a bunch of people on the other end saying um get rid of it besides baa saying we've had you know numerous applications I think that would be something I would want to monitor ex I I again I'm kind of like I'm not seeing either side being in an uproar about it so I kind of lean toward we don't need to do maybe something at this time but monitor the baa applications yeah that's kind of where does that work that might because I would say all the concerns that I as you mentioned this member St of all the concerns I've gotten from citizens over eight years that Turk has never been one of them correct that's kind of where I'm at and that's when I said earlier where are these problems so if we to be a ba issue because they're getting them and they're having to deal with them but it's not something that I've ever heard from a citizen except my next door neighbor right go ba to be honest with you want to address it again if we start getting to this and saying you know this is red tape you might have something there as far as um I like that in of loading them up with a whole another advisability I have one comment or clarification I want to make sure you're aware of on page 1415 of your packet the bottom of that page I we put the quote from the code in there and it says uh synthetic plants prohibited further says synthetic or artificial material in the form of trees shrubs Ground Covers vines or artificial turf shall not be used in lie of the replant requirements in this section so I was getting at what I was getting at to earlier was that there is a minimum planting requirement and once you've metant that that's where we've been getting these request hey I'd like to put in some synthetic vegetation in there and so the staff initial interpretation was they can't do that so and so what we're asking you is I think one or two options it sounds like not really not to do anything but okay to clarify what this is really saying prohibit it okay or come back to you with some standards based on what I've heard I can certainly do that what you just said if I do a motion to approve the advisability direct and staff to evaluate use of synthetic or artificial turf and L and propose an amendment to the ldr's um providing clarity as on the existing code reg regulation that works okay second yeah and then we're just getting advisability yeah and getting a little Clarity on what's what's got there not making any moves uh I have a motion second for member Nelson I have a second for member Cole roll call vote mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Cole yes and member Nelson yes and that is just an invisibility and bring us something back appreciate that City Manager on to C item C which is advisability for Native plannings and incentives on June 11th 2024 the city council approved advisability for staff to report back to the city council at a future council meeting uh with incentives requirements for using native plants and trees and development using the current incentives that were already listed along with bringing back a recommended or revised list that um is also included for um council's consideration and advisability staff has provided Council um the city's land uh scaping regulations relating to Native vegetations and new Landscaping the city's regulations encourage rather than provide incentives for native Landscaping in addition enclosed for City council's consideration are the minimum percentage for native planning policies regulations from the some surrounding jurisdictions we're asking Council to consider this information the best practices that we provided uh relating to Native landscaping and provide directions to staff on which way to go on this one all right Brad's here to Brad you have any you want to guide us with I think it's pretty clear unless you have any questions just the provided excerpts of what the code says it encourages native Landscaping doesn't require it doesn't incentivize it and then we just put some some examples from other communities I so I um I'll take any questions or input you yeah I think we just I I I honestly do not want to incentivize it but I think we ought to strongly encourage that's my that's my position I think we ought to strongly encourage them to use native plants and help them understand what native plants will do native plants Will Survive uh with little or no maintenance so I think if we say that to them that would be better I do not want to provide any incentives to them though the you had asked the last meeting to provide you some information as to what the code says about incentivizing it so what I provided to you are excerpts from the code that talk about Native vegetation all it talks about all it says is preferred encourage we'd like it whereas uh I guess the question before you was do you want to regulate it a minimum percent of a landscape land in other words if there's a minimum like some of the other jurisdictions have we would have to receive that landscape plane and verify that all the vegetation on that list is a minimum a percentage of them all are native member Nelson I sort of like Bard County's idea it requires 50% native trees and it says the requirement can be met through preservation of existing vegetation and I like that because that encourages people to turn around and keep what's what's there as opposed to plowing it under um and it 50% seems pretty minimal and like I I I don't dislike that I guess what I'm getting at is where do we need to go with this as far as saying that I'm I'm that's a good thing to say um but do we need to put a motion out there to because I I got one that says no incentives and yours is a little different I guess I'm trying to I won't say finalize but kind of put this to a where are we going with it where do we want to go with it what do we what do we want out of him what do we want to hear from what do what do we want to advise so I don't think Mr Cole has problem with 50% Mr Gold doesn't and uh I sort of like the 50% and the way The Bard County does it that is an incentive but do we want to we want you to come back with the incentives do we not I I we're not trying to come up with one incentive and put that down as as the yeah I guess so the if you'd like us we can come back to you with um your direction if you're looking just for incentives we can see what we can come up with if you're looking for a minimum percent U that they have to approve with the landscape plan by itself we can do that or if we can do both so if you look on page 428 of your packet you'll see what Bard County does at the very top row here it's showing forar County the incentive is that the requirement can be met through the preservation of existing vegetation so to me that's oh I'm not opposed I'm just trying to sort it out a little bit on what we're trying to get out of this and that you know it goes up to 70 75% Manatee County 30% Marathon Martin County uh 50% and 70% and maybe have staff look at all those numbers and come back with uh some reasonab reasonable um figures figures because there's so many there instead of just saying hey that Bard County does this let's do that because there's some other out there that are pretty good too so I I don't know remember Nelson you still up there I'm still out there but I'll I'll turn my light off M stoko yeah I was just wondering if we have any cards oh no no no no I I have no comments call the cards please k l yeah K sort this out for me please you guys are funny tonight this one is like this one did kind of me a little confused about what is it we want out of this K St an Maryland Avenue staff's report to council page 1421 provides e excerpts from the city's landscape regulations related to Native vegetation in New Landscapes as staff indicates the city's regulations encourage rather than provide incentives for Native Landscaping over and over again it says encourage encouraging native plants and developers landscaping plants just is not sufficient when we consider how many acres of native plants are being removed by new development consider the many benefits of landscaping with native plants native plants need very little water once established benefiting the aquifer native plants don't need fertilizer reducing pollution into the Lagoon as well native plants support native pollinators essential to the growth of vegetation and fruits that we all need we all need these flowers pollinated and if we keep on reducing the number of native plants we won't have any pollinators to pollinate our fruits and vegetables native trees support native caterpillar that support native birds a single oak tree supports 500 different caterpillars more than 100 species of birds in North America count on those caterpillars to feed them and their chicks over 30% of native birds have disappeared in the United States since the 1970s Birds bring tourists to Titusville and add to the quality of our life of our residents we're not just talking about a small small amount of native trees and plants being removed developers are removing just wholesale and we're talking about a large amount if you require some native plants you're going to get quite a large amount and so this is a big consideration this is it's just a big step I want you to give it a lot of thought staff's report provides Council minimum percent ad plant regulations from surrounding jurisdiction yes many Florida jurisdictions are requiring Landscaping with native plants but not Titusville the list that he provided you is not inclusive of all the others I I'm aware of quite a few others sanabelle s 75% they got destroyed now they want everything to be 75% to be native what does that tell you and my opinion Le County's requirement of 75% native for trees and 50% native for shrubs and ground covers would strike a good balance for Titus ville's new development 30 seconds keep going okay please consider adopting these native plant requirements for landscaping new developments let's take another step closer to truly making Titusville the gateway to Nature and space by requiring new developments to landscape with native trees and plants to benefit the residents the wildlife the aqua fures and the Lagoon thank you thank you next card Tony shiff I knew it gu again and it's this it's the same speech so I'm not going to make it I'm just gonna say that you know after all the time that we've spent in this room discussing what kind of plants we should plant outside that native plants just really kind of make the most sense especially when you put us in the context of the rest of the world a little um a little just observation we watched um NHK which is the Japanese and um DW which is the German um TV news for the United States so you get a perspective on what's going on in the world everywhere all around every continent just about except for antar the North and South poles are planting trees by the hundreds by the thousands by as many as they can afford or as many as they can get people to do native plants just make sense in the area where they are native too and our regulations just encourage rather than provide incentives and and remember Cole I think I think we should incentivize the things that we want instead of giving extra density because they plant a extra tree we should incentivize things that will grow here will protect our environment will flourish will feed us don't forget the pineapples that we're famous or used to be famous for we can't do the fish anymore so you know just as a member of the tree team I I've got to Echo um Miss K and say that we suggest Council consider Lee County 75% native vegetation required for tree species and 50% native vegetation required for shrub and ground cover species they'll grow easy here yeah that's a factor just from my own experience of trying to be the landscaper in my art uh Native Native is easy to grow and a lot of the ones you want to try to grow that aren't native aren't going to works yeah yeah so all right um councilor where we at let's get to make a decision here with what I mean we're talking indivisibility anyway member Nelson I'm not quite sure how to say this but I would say uh move to approve the advisability um to come up with a an ordinance requiring a minimum um Native Plant plant does that work it could uh that may be more specific than I'm even looking for if with all the different things he's gathered from different places I'd almost want to hear him say you know uh the invisibility to um various incentives to encourage native plants because we've got the encouraging of native plants but what what what out there is going to work for as incentives and what has he seen I I maybe see some things we haven't seen what you know what's Lee County doing what's you know what are these people who are incent yeah incentivizing what are their incentives just maybe inform us a little more it sounds like most of these counties aren't providing incentives they're saying find this of your planning right you're right then we need to make up our own right so go ahead I mean uh and see what the council thinks if we want to vote on that and move forward oh thanks say that again yeah basically 75% uh move to approve advisability for staff to come back with a proposed ordinance related to incentives percentage a percentage of native plants being required and thenc Senate I'm getting to it no that was good words I'm getting to it and potential incentives to encourage that good wording that was hard to do but discussion it really was uh discussion oh yeah no no I just want to make sure for Brad um what I to tag on to that now I think that's fine is if you have feedback from Bard County on how is their requirement working are they getting a lot of like annoying this is red tape this is too strenuous why are you doing this and to that point of if it's if we want to go the route of requirement and this seems to be the best model or what do those incentives look like and would that be a better thing for us to go based on based on your um opinion we can do that okay just kind of I think we're just I'm I'm looking to be more edified and informed about what incentives could be out there yeah what to keep it simple um and I thought member Nelson worded it well what are some incentives that have shown that they work in other places and and just give us because we're kind of at the beginning of this incentive thing so yeah I yeah I want to point out that U like he was gives credit for trees preserved on site so gives us give us several so there might be some so I yeah is that motion close enough to something we can use that yeah all right so we have a motion and a second roll call vote vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes to something it was hard the word it really was okay City Manager on to new business uh at your regular city council meeting on 13 August city council provided an advisability to discuss having an invocation versus a moment of silence at the regular City Council meetings at 6:30 we've provided background information and the current laws on that so um we're just looking for you to uh give us Direction on which way you'd like to go member stokel yep so I brought this up last time um and then I had my briefing my request would be that we go back to how we were prior to covid where we had an inclusive list um we sent it out to all religions churches in our community my requirement what my suggestion would be that it would just be for Titusville area um and invite them to be on the list we include everyone so we're not discriminating against anyone and as we had before we had a running list and then we would call and go down the list and invite them and then if they wanted to be put on the list they could be and then we as Council know that um we could not not discriminate and I think that's been some of the issues with other areas where they're like no we don't want your religion you can't um and if we feel like it's being abused or um that it's not being implemented the way that we had intended it that we revisit it and we go back to a moment of silence but for the eight years that I've been on here um and remembering back I felt like it was a great thing that we did just to set the tone for our meeting I felt like it was great to have the pastors kind of engage with government a little bit um and be able to see the community and what we're doing um and I that would be my request member Nelson I understand why member stole wants to do that but what I recall for those years was we had somebody there maybe 25% of the time and most of the time we had nobody here so I sort of like that I think that was one of the reasons we started doing the moment of silence um and I don't I don't have a problem with it because as non- denominational it gives everybody the chance to reflect and we don't have to come to a meeting and go oh who's here can anybody say a prayer and half the time people weren't there so I'm sort of like I think I'd rather stay where we are I think the easy thing to that and I remember that a number of times I Mayor Johnson would you know Walt would say you know do we have the pastor here and no he wasn't but it was a quick drop off to moment of silence you know so it wasn't a problem that way um I I think I recall the the big deal of the day was that uh you you'd have folks come who declared their right to do so too and they would not you know they would be well the wicens were somebody who did that at one point I'm not pointing out anybody or getting involved with all that I'm just saying that that was a was an issue that being said I I don't have any problem with uh member Stoko's thought or or ultimately maybe emotion because I don't think it hurts I think that bottom line is uh we give it a shot and um again if somebody doesn't show up it's easy for whoever's here to say uh so and so Pastor so and so scheduled no okay they couldn't make it I guess well again we have a moment of silence and just we always do and then may I'm sorry no no I agree with I and I'm thinking if it doesn't work if people aren't showing up then we go back to the moment of silence and that's yeah because I think it's worth trying again um any cards on this well one question one card okay one question on it is that we're going to come up with a list of pastors that the city managers people are going to invite or how does how will what are the mechanics of it I guess I'm asking I don't disagree with it at all and I said well you know if we invite Pastor a and he's not here yes we'll go to a moment of silence and I would recommend to try it for 6 months see how it works and if it works good we continue on with it you know and and what member St said it's most important is it's an inclusive list yes in in the city of tidel I would say any church with a pastor is is certainly on that list so okay call the card please Tony she come out Vice May Robinson I'm sorry come up Tony stand there a second I think I said all of mine I'm I'm 100% the inclusivity uh concerns me but I know that to to get one good prayer we may have to circulate around the bunch one good one good prayer may make it all worth it I'll leave it as that I I'm in favor of it Miss Tony well I'm Tony shuo Tropic Street I totally disagree with you whose Lord will be invoked whose Lord will be left out Miss stokel what am I to do member Cole while someone leading an invocation says things that are Blasphemous to me and my religion what happens to separation of church and state what's wrong with having a collective moment of silence where we can focus on Our intention for the rest of the evening gather our thoughts have some calmness together a time as you said member Nelson for reflection it's very brief the thing I've appreciated the most about coming to these meetings is that I don't have to listen to some Southern Baptist Minister giving a prayer to his Lord who oppresses me as a woman Tuesday August 27 are you going to have Muslim um um are you going to have Buddhists come in are we going to allow Satanist perhaps who do have a religion I for one throw tarot cards could I do a little invocation for us for seeing a little bit of how the tone of the meeting is going to go through the cards it's a silly idea to abandon the moment of silence that we have where we can come together and nobody is left out because somebody's God is being invoked but not mine I appreciate the moment moment of silence I think you're making a big mistake to move away from it thank you I would say that um just listening to to Tony and that's kind of something I think they heard back uh I think it was the 80s and when the wiccans were coming forward and and that is certainly the all-encompassing of everyone um but I would say also um you know they do pray at the uh state house they do pray at the in Congress I do pray in the Senate um so I don't think it is something that our country is uh opposed to uh but I do uh I do see the issues brought forward uh are avoided with a moment of silence but if again I don't know that's all we want to do is just avoid them so um that being said um I guess we need a motion any other cards nope no so um what what I'm really looking for is uh the process that we will establish and bring back to you yes um and one question that staff has is that um we had discussed perhaps putting a time limit on yep that's fine and we'll bring you some suggestions well let me just say that about time limit a couple things here because I remember even when we were doing it before there was always that one or two there to give me a five and a half minute sermon and and what are you going to do when you say have a time limit the Bell goes off beep you know they're not going to stop I mean we have sometimes we allegedly have uh time limits in presentations too but we so I don't know that time limit is going to be something that gets involved there most people we'll tell them that most people most pastors are going to do two minutes or so if that and if we just have that that suggestion absolutely absolutely do you need do you need a motion um advisability yeah I got all right so hold on wait before you do that um vice mayor no I I think the uh the city manager said recommended you know two-minute prayer uh words of thanks most will stay by it uh words of praise words of Thanksgiving remember sitting over there it's you know if you get away from the word prayer just uh um and use words of Thanksgiving and I think you'll begin to uh get away from in uh offending anyone because that's what prayer is is we're not praying a prayer of uh we praying a prayer of Thanksgiving and of uh coverance of the meeting so that uh we can do that because you're going to always get all all of this but I think true prayer will overcome all of our concern but that's my thought that's why I'm trying to be as quiet as I possibly can moment of silence that's uh M CLE yep so move uh for advisability for staff to come back with would it be an ordinance or just a no it'll be a process okay and um we'll put some guidelines in there uh I I believe member Cole would suggested a six month um to to do that process for six months and see how it works and Y with the ability to continue if you wish or discontinue if you if you choose to do so and I heard a time limit in there as well yes for staff to come back um with a process for invocation at our Council meetings that would be my motion I have a motion and need a second second got a motion in a second roll call vote member St yes member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes yes all right so we the advisability passes unanimously see any manager on to um 12b advisability on sidewalk waiver criteria staff's found many um issues with their our current waiver and sidewalk criteria so we're asking for advisability to direct staff to propose amendments to the sidewalk wer criteria specifically clarifying how sidewalk is determined to be not practical and standards on the calculations of the fee and the use of the sidewalk uh trust fund and Brad's here to discuss that we're trying to clarify some of the issues we found with our current sidewalk ordinance Brad you want to give us a overview so the ordinance uh the way it's written right now there two parts to uh telling someone they don't have to put in a sidewalk the first part is a waiver they can ask for a waiver and if they meet the criteria we wave the sidewalk they don't have to put it in they have to pay into a fund and that's the way it works right now there's three criteria that have to meet one of them that they have to try and meet or one of the three rather one is that we have the sidewalk planned in our Capital Improvement program for the next five years we're going to put it in so we won't make you put in the sidewalk the other one is it's in next year's budget and we're not going to make you put in the sidewalk the third one is if there are no sidewalks ever in that neighborhood and the criteria that shows in there it says in unplatted areas or platted areas doesn't really give me a good definition so we're always kind of figuring out coming up with a methodology to see what is really applicable here and sometimes the applicant is denied and sometimes they are approved if they're denied they have a second round they can ask the second part of the request is well I it's not practical there are no sidewalks in this area um there may be later on in the future uh but there's I I shouldn't have to put it in right now and so that's the Practical part of it and when we initially look at this the past few years it's I I'll be honest with the way it's written it's not very clear to us we kind of looked at it initially as a hardship criteria kind of like a variance you look at it again it's not necessarily that way but basically if you qualify for the prac iCal request then you can you have to pay into the fund and so then the fund the money we estimate how much that side would have cost it's usually a lot pretty high um sometimes we get applicants and say well I can put it in for cheaper well okay go ahead and do it so they put it in as part of that sidewalk part of that site plan other times they'll say well I just can't do it it's not practical here are the other reasons for a lot of the reasons I get for under practical is because there are trees in the way that need to be taken out uh there may be a storm water inlet or something like that there in a way as well um a lot of reasons I get is to look there are no other sidewalks in this area I shouldn't have to do it if they didn't have to do it my neighbors have do it why should I and I get those requests for on neighborhoods local roads I also get them on major roads state roads we would like to come back to you to see if we can clarify this to make it um a little more difficult than to ask if the kind of requests um typically sidewalks especially on major roads are put in by the applicant as part of the site plan for their segment of their of their property and then their neighbor when they come with a site plan they have to put in a sidewalk and over time you eventually get this long sidewalk the other uh issue is that subdivisions that are coming in right now they are required to put in a sidewalk so a lot of the requests I get for neighborhoods are for these really old subdivisions so I don't get a whole lot of these requests but the ones I do um I think the majority them are very difficult to apply I get a lot of push back uh we would just like to have an opportunity to really go through it uh make the language a little easier to read and understand compare to other communities and come back to you with an ordinance that revises it we would like to consider maybe removing the whole trust fund option altogether if You' like us to keep it we'll look at those options as well vice mayor uh these are the four things that I put into the pot for consideration one is pedestrian safety two uh is U the easement requirement because of the size of the law and three is the historic appearance of the neighborhood that's my thoughts on it you said there were four I'm sorry historical appear yeah we we got we got three of yours and you said you had four did you have three in fact I um the size of did I say size of the lot the size of the lot uh the easement requirement so anybody else up here any comments well we got to give him something um go ahead and then I'll go behind you yeah I guess more so for Brad and when I had my briefing I get the intent behind the trust like it makes sense um if there's just not a sidewalk there but there will be a sidewalk there and so you want to be able to not have the city pay for that so I guess I'm I'm just a little bit gray on when we also remember the issue we had where we had citizens coming like this doesn't make any sense of why there never will be a sidewalk here this is stupid why would I need to pay for this and so that I want to avoid that but I also don't want the taxpayers paying for somebody else's sidewalk because they didn't want to put it in at that time that's where I I don't and I don't have a solution but that's kind of where my mind is going with this of how do I don't want to do away with the trust because says I don't want a developer to not pay those funds for a sidewalk that would be needed and then it goes on our taxpayers um same thing I don't want a citizen to be having that burden when there will never be a sidewalk connecting his side like that just doesn't make sense that that's how that looks I don't know exactly but that's my my thoughts pretty much same uh I remember uh sitting in meeting I can't remember how long ago but um the we were asking put a sidewalk in and they came and showed us that it didn't make sense I'm like why um so what I you know and not to and again we're supposed to give you an advisability and I'm really kind of I've said this many times up here I'm not the expert I almost feel like I want to look at you and say can you give us an advisability that we can agree with or not agree with I have ideas say again I have some ideas well that that's exactly what I think we need and and what we're really looking to kind of fair it up a little bit because some of the things that are in our code don't make a sense so and and that's where I'm looking I'm and I'm very beginning I'm thinking man he he needs to be my advisor here because I don't know so yeah go that would be great if you want to share some of those at Super too the examples about neighborhoods older ones where they didn't have um sidewalks in there they kind of have haely put in there or we don't see that they're going to be planned at all because it was approved that way I mean those there are a few subdivisions that are just easy we can say they were not approved with a sidewalk they're old uh we don't plan to put them in there someone one particular lot shouldn't have to put in that particular sidewalk when the rest of the neighborhood doesn't that's pretty easy to do if you recall that particular incident that they were renovating the houses so when they renovated it triggered you have to bring that property up to the current code yeah which it did it didn't work so that that's kind of what triggered us to take a look at this one that particular example that happened last year the code criteria for that waiver is what was problematic we'd like to tighten that up so it's very clear to everybody as to what the expectation is um it leaves a lot for interpretation and I think that's the issue that that particular applicant had well what do we need to give you from here because like I said if you have some ideas that's great if we can simply say we would like you to continue forward and to give us the ideas about what you're thinking there because I just think it's so wide open um the only real experience I have is sitting up here and that's when people have come up and said you know your code requires us to have a sidewalk and it doesn't make sense I show pictures and we look at each other that it doesn't make sense that's exactly what we're looking for is for us to proceed forward to proceed forward that because really and truly I I know you'll do a better job with this and then certainly I will I've got like I said I that one stands out to me it's like wow I remember that it's like that doesn't make sense and if we can fix that stuff and that's what you're trying to do first all I applaud staff for bringing that and trying to uh let's get this fixed we'll come back then with um like some some options yeah just some options and some some some different matter of fact maybe you point out that you know this didn't work and you may even say you guys some of you were up there when this guy came up and this is what we're trying to remedy remember Cole yeah I'm trying to remember I remember the situation we're talking about and we didn't require him to put in the sidewalk did we charge him anything for that or did we waiver the Chargers there was not a fee for a request for a waiver no okay all right I think we were feeling like go we got to help this guy yeah okay is that good enough I think we we'll just St a motion to proceed with advisability to bring something back to then we'll do that do we have any cards wait have any cards no what I'll do is not bring back an ordinance but I'll bring back a draft with perfect standard and options uh move to appr approve the advisability directing staff to propose amendments to the sidewalk waiver criteria uh clarifying how a sidewalk is determined to be not practical and standards on the calculation of the p and use of the sidewalk trust fund second got a motion and a second roll call vote member Cole yes member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes okay we'll get this back uh City man 12C is the middle income property tax exemption advisability the Liv local act which became law in 2023 established a new adorm tax exemption for owners of newly constructed multif family rental devel velopments that provide affordable housing opportunities to housing uh natural persons or families below certain income thresholds one of the thresholds for a qualified property used was to provide affordable housing at the 80 to 100% of the Ami which is the area median income which would receive an exemption of 75% of the assessed value of the affordable units staff is asking for councils advisability to research um to either opt out of this um income property tax exemption which is authorized by Florida Statutes Brad's here to give you a little bit more depth in this but you recall we had to opt in on that one and we chose not to this one we have to opt out of if you choose to do that and we it becomes effective in January okay right so when this was initially brought up to you the idea was to go to you and ask for you to opt out of this particular tax exemption we've looked at it further and we want to bring it to your attention the option of potentially keeping it um on page 1438 of your packet it's the second page of the agenda cover sheet uh we we tried to see if we can come up with some kind of estimate of what the cost or the benefit to the city would be as far as allowing this or not allowing it and that esmic we couldn't generate it there are too many variables involved and the number of times this type of tax would be utilized I we believe would be really rare in our city um the second to last paragraph there it says in according to section 196 of the statute the property owner of a family project had who has granted an exemption for that code for that statute uh before the adoption of renew of such opt out ordinance or resolution may continue to receive such exemption so in other words if they get the exemption now and then we later on this year decide to opt out they're still that applicant is still able to utilize the exemption now it just when you make your decision to opt out if you make your decision opt out it won't become effective until January of 2025 and they have to do it every year or every couple of years we have to look at it again to see but B every year you have to come back the last paragraph you here have on that page uh 1438 the Florida Housing Coalition uh did a presentation on on all these different um the local law and all the different tax exemptions and programs and they identifi this particular tax as potentially beneficial to local jurisdictions considering adopting an inclusion or zoning law if you recall last year you gave us direction to go forward with an affordable housing study and the reason for that was that is the first step the state law before you start to consider whether you want to adopt an inclusionary zoning reg regulation um the reason is this might be beneficial according to the Florida Housing Coalition is that the inclusionary zoning regulation in the statute if a local jurisdiction adopts that regulation what you're saying is you're going to set require a developer to set aside a percent of units as affordable housing units in a multif family development some communities require ire 3% of all residential units in an apartment complex to be set aside maybe 1% whatever that might be the statute says if you do that you have to do an offset the fla Housing Coalition is suggesting that this particular tax exemption could be used towards that offset so if you're trying to incentivize affordable housing units um not just under a live local but on anywhere else in your city that you think is appropriate this tax exemption might be one of those tools that you can use to help meet that offset requirement the inclusion the affordable housing study that the city is doing uh we just we're coming to you soon to get approval on a on a consultant to help us with that study um once that study is complete and it will include conversations with you um and with the public that study will be presented with recommendations as to whether it would be feasible uh to go forward with an inclusionary zoning regulation and then you make a decision as to whether you want to do that or not I think that's a good idea or not the reason I'm bringing this up is because if you go forward with opting out now uh then this tool wouldn't be able for us to be utilized next year if you decide to go forward with that inclusionary zoning regulation but since you have to do it every year it might not hurt to go ahead and exempt out po out now this year or this this for 2025 and then consider not opting out next time if you the council seriously wants to go forward with this inclusion or res zoning regulation so I needed to bring this out to you so you're aware of it that it's not it doesn't seem as simple as just opting out because it might you might be getting rid of a PO potential tool that you might want to use if you decide to go forward with the other uh regulation the inclusion or zoning regulation V mayor yeah and you understand it's a yearly option is that correct yes and is as for is it all inclusive total total City environment or is this section if you opt out it's not available within the city Titusville okay correct okay we can't section the city and and make it there and we get it and every year we can look at it and see what is best for us to uh dependent upon it does sunset eventually the live local do yes well the live local law sunsets some of the exemptions have some of their own ex sunsets too so I'll have to take a look at that to see whether this one has the same Sunset as Liv local or a different one but I believe they're they're a couple of decades out yeah all right those was M member St yep uh my thoughts are that we opt out for this year and then maybe as we learn more or get more information maybe revisit um but I think given current situation I would be in favor of opting out at this time member Nelson and I second then I I agree with member soal um because we can change it next year and we'll have the information that we need at that point okay if you opt out we'll have to bring back a resolution or an ordinance yeah and I uh I would say same I I I agree um that opting out is it's a safe thing to do and there's you know we're not stuck with it so we're okay no matter what so yeah so at this point well are any cards I have one card it's Tony shff I remember cards no I'm not standing here to make my husband think I'm carrying on affairs chipo Tropic Street I um was here back in July when we did the local option tax exemption do not adopt the local option ADV vorum and unanimous not to adopt I thought it was kind of the same thing only this one says um I idea where to go Section 1961 1979 and this agenda says section 196 1978 so I was wondering if they're the same bill or are they different but anyway that's I don't want to waste my three minutes looking at that because what I wanted to say is what I said then deny the local option tax exemption to developers let's stop catering to outside investors whose only project design is to maximize profit as quickly as possible and move on to destroy the next wetland land or native old growth forest let's instead incentivize development local in its need local in the desire for it local people developing it and local con local people constructing it and using it for the People by the people not done unto the people if we're going to have tax exemptions why don't we give them to the poor people instead of giving it to the developer to set us side a couple of units to be for the poor people let's act direct thank you oh 30 yeah yeah um so go and make that motion Mo to extend for 30 minutes do for no if she says 30 doesn't hurt anything we'll be out here in 10 uh make it 30 and talk fast second all those in favor to say yes opposed all right we're extended to we're extended to 11 o' Tony you're getting sleepy out there Tony is out there voting getting slap Happy Tony all right so uh move to move to approve the advisability directing the staff to research the opt out option from the middle income property tax exemption authorized by section 1961 1978 Board of statutes would you like for us to come back with a resolution yes as such since you've you've said resolution right and that we got it perfect um I'm back with the resolution perfect second we have a motion and member stokel has a second um roll call vote member Nelson yes mayor diesel yes vice mayor Robinson yes member stokel yes member Colt yes motion pass pass es unanimously uh petitions requests from the public thank you Tony well I think already went um not many people here left all right city um no we go to um start with member St uh vice mayor uh just uh nothing's going on just trying to do my best uh member Nelson uh I still want a booth at the National Night Out uh and I think probably we need to have a discussion and do we need advisability motion whatever um this would be a motion to actually do something if you if you would like a booth there um what what do you want in the booth um basically highlighting what the projects we have done for the Lagoon showing some of the seagrass growing L citizens know again that the river isn't dead and we are doing things you like a brers Flyers brochur Flyers Virginia um actually found some like coloring books on the Indian River Lagoon and I don't remember where she got them but they were designed for kids 7 through 10 11 um talking about the Lagoon why it was important how how you could help it which was great so that would be my motion is that we have a booth at the national nights out who's we who who mans that Booth Titus City who city city we us people who man that I'm sorry sir we would have people to man that Booth yes sir and we would have handouts Etc I'm all for that I'm obviously I'm I'm and I've had discussions and city manager I've had a lot of discussions on um through my days as the athletic director Etc I can't tell you I said it in here on a couple Saturdays I don't care what you do somebody's going to say oh I didn't know and oh what you know I've sent out 27 permission forms form oh I never got that so I am all for whatever we have to do to make sure people know what we're doing because they come in here sometimes oh I didn't know I don't know if he'll ever hit them but I'd like any effort we can to make that I just want to make sure that we aren't getting into an area where we shouldn't and I don't know there is an area that we shouldn't but uh because I think it was a a police fire thing but I don't know how that could be yes sir so National Night Out is a national uh police sponsored event so uh in the city of tville we've added uh our fire department because we believe that the First Responders we've expanded it to that um we will reach out to the Sheriff's Office I mean it it's an elaborate event to put everything together so it is a sponsored event for the police and um law enforcement and I will say last year we did have candidates there we had other groups there so well yeah primarily it is a law enforcement thing uh there were other groups there and I I'm not opposed to it I just I don't recall so um go ahead and make your motion go from there so that would be my motion is that we have a booth the city have a booth at National nights out highlighting what we our projects toward the Lagoon um photographs of some of the SE grass maybe some literature for the kids those kind of things and actually I got to tell you Brad and Eddie Used To Do It um during the turtle Festival the sea turtle Festival okay well hold on I have a motion but I have a question question microphone yeah I did the city it'll be City staff I mean we'll have to find somebody to man it who City staff sir all right I have a motion from Member Nelson to do a booth at the um that's Night Out second member Cole has a second oh in discussion sorry I know seems to be my com and thing hey I didn't have a report no I'm I'm going to vote in favor of this with the only like caveat being I just like to make sure that the intent or if there's funds or who it's sponsored by that we're not crossing over with that and then to member Nelson's point I I agree with your intent and why you're doing this and I think that's something that I've been thinking about too is how can we um prioritize educating the public a little bit more I think we've done the videos and I appreciate and I plan to post those out of what we're doing for the Lagoon pushing them out um you can only push out so much information but citizens do have to um want to hear it and want to know what's going on but I feel like we could do a better job of promoting some of the good things that we're doing to counteract a lot of misinformation that I've personally seen um so I think maybe just us on councel and thinking about this because it does take staff time um thinking about those resources especially during our budget season of what would that look like who would potenti staff be we used to have the street parties back in the day we did not sponsor them but we would have that space available to advertise so maybe just getting creative if it's not City sponsored are there other groups out there sponsoring it and the city can be a part of it um where we can maximize our awareness and it shows that the city is being involved and engaged with the community I and wanting to educate so I I appreciate your intent there because I think that's where it's coming from um I would like to explore that a little bit I did talk to Amy Matthews who is putting it on there is no charge for the city to put a t up so it' be basically two hours of Staff time three hours staff time yep whatever that takes um but you have I think city manager was saying last year they had 5,000 people and I'm like wonderful wonderful place to have that's a great time to so much fun educate the people and and uh and especially since last week I actually had somebody come up to me and say this the river is dead the city is doing nothing again so I won't tell you who that was but yep we we the best we can do is put out correct accurate information right and uh I heard we denied Chick-fil-A that's going to be the rumor of the night well point of making is no matter what information you out there you you're just going to have to deal with misinformation sometimes and just do our best and don't get our feelings hurt right so okay uh so you have the motion out did we get the second okay all those in favor say yesos I'm going to say yes but make sure you have enough trash can around pick uh make sure you have enough trash can to pick up all of the paper that's going to be thrown over the on that encouraging note call you any more I I'd be afraid to remember I'm just telling you like it is and I'm going to I would just say that um just to remind people for the record I missed the first meeting because I got in from Boston at the airport at 4:30 got to my house at 5:30 was getting dressed and got to watch you guys do a wonderful job um it is different that's the first time I've ever watched it where where it was just different it did it felt like I was skipping school is what it felt like so I was trying to get down here but anyway uh I'm going to pass with anything else uh city manager yes sir I've just got two information items uh the B budget uh um first public hearing is coming up on the 12th of September at 5:30 as well as the final public hearing on the 26th at 5:30 and uh we're just about done with the read head on on the first hearing for you very good thank you sir uh City attorney Brad you got anything all right uh with that meeting ajour and we didn't have to go to 11 o' --------- ##VIDEO ID:eYEjvdEtR-o## for e for e for e for for for e for e for for e e for e [Music] oh [Music] [Music] let us call the meeting to order we'll have a moment of Silent prayer let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible with liy And Justice For All We Stand and we do have a quorum and we uh line item special recognition and presentation yes sir if uh we could have the city clerk read the rules for speaking yes individuals wishing to speak on agenda items must complete a signup card prior to the item being introduced sign up of cards are available on the table individuals wishing to speak on non-agenda items May do so oh and I'm reading the wrong one so I apologize I just realized that I apologize I know all right right right right that was the wrong one okay all right I apologize this is a city council meeting to hear special recognitions and presentations Council will not take formal action on the agenda items all individuals wishing to speak may do so under petitions and requests no sign up card is required citizens will be given 3 minutes to speak all sign up cards and Exhibits being submitted to city council should be placed in the box on the table good evening Mr vice mayor of city council the first item is 4A which is a proclamation for National Suicide Prevention month and with your permission sir I'd like to read the proclamation yes the official proclamation of the city of Titusville Florida whereas September is designated the National Suicide Prevention month and recognized by the National Association of mental illness and whereas many Health officials and the community leaders locally State and National understand that mental illness is a significant issue of concern particularly among Our Youth and whereas we realize to that to address mental health issues requires more open and honest discussions about mental health and whereas one major hurdle is removing the stigma attached to mental health treatment and discussions whereas individuals businesses organizations public officials and many others recognize the importance of emotional health now therefore be it resolved the city of Titusville supports the efforts of the Space Coast to provide education resources for mental health and problems signed Daniel e diesel mayor is there somebody here to receive the proclamation receive it Mr vice mayor would you um present [Music] it's right there on behalf of the city of Titusville Proclamation thank you so much have a wonderful day thank you I speak for yes you may okay mayor city council members and City staff and citizens citizens of Titusville I'm Patrice pilot I'm board member of the Space Coast Health foundation and I'd like to thank you all so much for doing this the mayor diesel mayor Robinson and the rest of the city of Titusville have been an early supporter of this annual initiative we believe in making a difference at the Space Coast Health Foundation if for nothing else that it will let individuals know that there are caring people in our community people always willing to listen and provide help and you all have always been one of those I may have a representative from do it for Hunter you m here uh it's an organization founded on the suicide awareness and prevention Al They also supporting us in our efforts to prevent suicide have uh has been palmo pal Point Behavior Center which is just North of the city of Titusville who has provided U health care for those people in need again we'd like to thank you for being a leader in this effort and you are showing uh veroy County and for and the rest of the Titusville area are um what should be done and we truly appreciate that thank you and uh the next Proclamation is item 4B Constitution week Proclamation official proclamation of the city of Titusville Florida whereas September 17th 20124 marks the 237th anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional Convention and whereas it is fitting and proper to officially recognize this magnificent document in the anniversary of its creation and where as it's fitting and proper to officially recognize the Patriotic celebrations which will commence on the occasion and whereas Public Law 9:15 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year by the president of the United States designating September 17th through the 23rd as Constitution week and whereas cons Constitution week provides the opportunity for all florid Floridians to learn about the Constitution of the United States and reflect upon the unique principles and now therefore I Daniel e diesel by the authority vested in me as mayor do hereby proclaim the week of 17 through 23 September as uh 2024 as Constitution week signed Daniel e diesel mayor is there somebody to receive a proclamation coming up who's taking the Le supposed to I'll I'll talk you got gra the you got gra all right someone want to speak yes okay the US Constitution is the supreme law of our land therefore four it lays the groundw work for y'all to conduct your business here tonight so we are inviting you and all the candidates and all the city uh employees and all the citizens of Titusville and Bard County to join us on September 17th on the steps of City Hall at 4:00 for the ringing of the Bells because in 1887 when they signed the Constitution they came out in Philadelphia and rang the bell so we will be doing that and have a short presentation but without the Constitution think about that if there were no US Constitution thank you very [Applause] much patri could I get you to come up with the plaque again we didn't take a photo we didn't have a photo moment that was that was mine bad because I was late thank you on to item 4 C which is Bard Homeless Coalition presentation Bard Homeless Coalition representative and executive director Amber Carroll will present information on House Bill 1365 unauthorized public camping and public sleeping which will go into effect on 1 October 2024 with enforcement to begin on 1 January 2025 Amber um the slide Turner is right there if you want to sit or stand it's up to you all right well good evening city council thank you so much for allowing me to come and have the opportunity to speak with you um again my name is Amber Carol if I haven't had a chance to meet you thank you for again for letting me be here um I I'm the executive director for The Bard Homeless Coalition we are the lead Agency for the Continuum of Care um that is the homeless Services kind of network in Bard County and what we do we organize uh efforts to coordinate uh funding priorities and action to support those who are at risk and those who are actually experiencing homelessness the reason that I'm here to for uh here today is not to ask you for anything um I'm not uh coming to ask you for money um I'm really just coming to share with you what our local responses to House Bill 1365 and to be a resource for you because inevitably this is going to come back to you to uh continue to talk about it to possibly come up with Solutions and we want to be partners in this with you so House Bill 1365 as we just heard is a was signed into law that is uh making it um illegal to sleep in public property it gives a citizen a resident or business owner um in Bard County or the Attorney General the ability to sue local municipalities or County for the allowing of people to sleep overnight on public property and um why does that matter to us in Bard County um we might say that we don't really have a homeless problem or maybe why why do we care about that so one of the roles that we have as The Bard Homeless Coalition is that we conduct the point in time count and I think you probably have heard of that before um but you can see up on this slide I know out here you guys can't really read that um that is available on our website it is included in your packet and I just wanted to highlight a couple key findings from this year's point in time count we uh we conduct this uh survey annually the last 10 days of January this year's count was an increase um of of last year of six% and the highest count again since 2015 or unsheltered count is 00 um 1,116 people um that is a 177% increase from last year of unsheltered individuals and a 72% increase of people who are experiencing chronic homelessness and that's people who've been unsheltered for a year or longer um who have a disabling condition that number matters in Bard County because that's who you see with your eyes on who's actually um unsheltered on our streets and those are the the individuals who are going to draw attention and what this bill is really created for is to reduce that number Bard county is um notice in the nation over the last two years there's an ahar report it's a report that's given to Congress on the state of homelessness in the nation um of the top of the five largest uh largely Suburban coc's in the country um Bard county has been listed in the top five for chronic homelessness in the nation Florida has made the top five list for the last two reports um and our numbers are increasing so in Bard County we have to uh come up with a solution we have to address this um this increasing population that we have um another uh key note is that our um the um the rate at which homelessness is increasing has been directly proportionate to the um the decline and available housing so we know that housing is an issue that we're getting priced out of our homes um we believe that homelessness is a housing problem and that it's not just um an affordable housing problem it's housing on all levels it's those starter homes that people can afford to get it's all of the housing in between but it's it's really housing that um can address all levels of need um so what are we going to do with the um response to this bill um as the COC we've been working um we've been putting together a work group of our decision makers in our entitlement um cities and the county and so we did have an opportunity to meet with the city staff at Titusville um right at the beginning first group that we met with and um have since met with all of the other um the city so um city manager in um Palm Bay Melbourne Coco um rockage and Titusville so and and and also with the county and so what we're doing is we're pulling together a group of decision makers to come up with a plan to um to address this issue in addition to that work group we have Representatives who sit on the advisory Council Mr uh Joe Robinson being one of those individuals representing Titusville um and um so coming together to say how are we going to address the problem in in our community um when we look at the uh response right now Bard County does not have a single overnight emergency shelter available for anyone now we do have shelter programs so shelters that exist for people who um maybe they families um maybe they're veterans so uh shelters that exist for um you have to have a it's a program it's like a 30-day program but if for someone is in crisis law enforcement has someone they need to find a safe place for them to go we do not have a single drop in emergency shelter in Bard County somewhere along the line before my time we've made that decision decision to not do that so we're going to look at that we're going to look at a multifaceted approach to how do we address this so that not one city is carrying the burden of um Sheltering the unsheltered um that we look at it across the entire County and that's our role and that's really what we want to bring to you tonight so you know that's happening um we want your um your participation so that we are together coming up with solutions that can um benefit our entire County um so really that was just a quick overview you also have another sheet in your packet which kind of talks about some of the big key takeaways with House Bill 1365 in all of your free time feel free to read that my contact information is on there you can reach out as well but I wanted to just pause and uh ask if there's any questions um related to what I just shared council member questions yes oh yes who's who's first I don't know who's on first yeah huh who's on first who's on second ladies first ladies first just going you hi Amber how are you doing I'm good how many do you have an idea how many homeless we have in the Titusville area yeah so the geographical distrib ution in um in Titusville this year was about 9% was in the North in the central we had about 40% and the South was 51% and one thing we do understand about our our homeless individuals is that they do um they do kind of move around in the county based on where services are offered and depending on the day of the week and where they can find support that sort of I'm assuming Salvation Army is part of your group um the army yes we should have bought that M building but okay that was a l yeah are you done yeah yes thank you okay just to clarify when you say that um Florida is in the top five of how many homeless people we have in the state that I would assume it because we're also in the top top five of population size right you're going by counts not percentages and ratios so that top five it is by the largely Suburban coc's so it is a little different it's not just Bard County it's a Bard County our Continuum of Care so in Florida there are 27 Continuum of cares okay um so we were categorized by because we were a largely suburban cooc and that number was really the chronically homeless number so that chronic homeless who's a year longer um with a dis disabling condition as well and you might not know this and that's is okay um are you finding that there are other states that have high populations like Florida does that are lower and are doing better with their homeless populations I just I'm wondering how we compare because we are such a large state if this is to be expected because we have so many people are we doing good are we doing bad yeah yeah I'm I know that's that's hard it's been California and Florida in the the in that category over the last couple reports okay um homelessness is up in our country and it is because of the housing crisis in our country so I mean we are kind of seeing that all over okay um and then member Nelson mentioned what I was noticed as well the North End we are a lot less than the rest of the county but with this bill um and us you I I feel like homeless people are going to need some space to go especially with this bill being uh enforced and so I guess thinking and hearing your presentation would next steps be because I know there have been communities that have tried um to utilize like o old hotels um some of those programs have not been successful so would the next step be this working group that you mentioned to try for us to participate in it to see what would be a potential solution like where would um we be able to let the homeless know that they can go if they can't be sleeping in public spaces yes is that the next step okay that is the next step wanted to clarify we we um do think that it's going to be uh it's going to require us to put our heads together and come to the table with what is available what are we looking for in Titusville what are we looking for in rockage what are we looking for in Coco and and us not coming into saying you need to do this but rather what can we do um so one of like we uh we're looking at a model Jacksonville put together a plan um for there it's like kind of a 12-step approach and it really encompasses all kind of talks about prevention it talks about Street Outreach talks about like a large conversion of a hotel but then it also looks at um expanding what we might call shared housing and allowing people to lease have multiple leases in one location and what would that require was zoning changes in your area um and just really looking at the whole picture and coming up kind of with an all-encompassing plan but we can't do that unless we have the decision makers and each at the table at the table yeah all right thank you so much remember Cole yeah I just wanted to make sure that you know this is a world problem yes it's not a United States problem uh it's worldwide I was talking to someone that lived in Toronto and they said you would never think that they would have a homeless problem in Toronto but our police chief took a proactive approach and formed a Community Service Unit which is five officers and they go out to the unsheltered areas and they have pamphlets and they give the pamphlets out for services that are available services for those that have drug addictions those that need hospitals and those that need housing I was I went out with them on one of these uh trips and 70% of the people that are out there are drug addicts they are addicted and they offer programs I mean so I'm saying it's a humanitarian approach and I was really heartened by the humanitarian approach that they used to service our unsheltered community but it's a it's a worldwide problem I understand we need to find places but it's a problem that has been going on for many many years and if we find a pro a solution I hope we do okay but I was thinking that maybe there's some way and I don't want to put our Titusville Police Department on on the spot here but that Community Service Unit does a fantastic job out in the community so maybe there are ways that we can work with them to help with this problem okay happy to yes thank you am yes uh remember Cole said that uh uh he uses number 70% does that number that percentage hold up uh Nationwide or Statewide um according to our our census the last time it was 31% of those we surveyed how a behavioral health condition um so we didn't see a 70% but that's the percentage that it shows from the people that the commun that's the percentage that is is G from our community service unit when they do the surveys of the people that they come in contact with yeah so with the point time count data we ask those individuals we we have the questions about uh mental health substance use substance abuse so that um our our numbers were were different um this year they were 31% uh next question my last question if what uh you may have stated it but what are the Financial consequences if we do not get involved with this process what are the possible Financial consequences uh well civil lawsuits can come come beginning in January so that we don't know what that's going to look like no one knows um so that is totally out of our control so that right there um if we don't do it we do know that um when when they've been talking about the bill uh they've said it's not a criminal ization bill that it's not intended to to cause criminal criminalize those for experiencing homelessness but we do know that 85% of people we've surveyed have been uh prior uh incarcerated in county jail and 30% in our state prison um we're seeing camps being more and more cleared out right now just in response to this um so the cost is I do think it's going to put a burden on our law enforcement and those um because because they are going to have to respond to the complaints they'll have to cure the you know the what's the reports and I think that we are not going to jail ourselves out of this we've got to find a way but it it's we're going to see a burden in the system that way for sure thank you council members more questions just one more do we have a potential spot in Titus Bell do you have an idea any ideas I mean we have tons of ideas um but I think that really the most effective way to come at those is in conversation about what might be most appropriate for Titusville if and and we've really been talking about finding options for the North Central and the South and so maybe we decide in Titusville based on the 9% there's a smaller representation of you know there's a smaller solution maybe the central has a larger facility maybe the South has a larger facility um but also we're thinking creatively like mobile those uh mobile shelter units like the buses that we could do that have 20 beds on them um you know there are some really creative ways that we can do this where it's not just putting up where we might Envision large you know overnight shelters that sleep a hundred people but maybe we've got a multifaceted approach that it it kind of spreads it out so we're open to that creativity and I think Bard county is is like the example of creative thinking so hopefully can there okay thanks after after you have explained it or you going at some point you're going to come back for ask for something speciic really cool right would be really cool is if your city manager would come back with your ask so that would [Laughter] be all right he didn't really smile at that but I thought it was funny um no I um yes my hope would be that we meet with this work group we come up with some options to bring to you to to discern and um come up with a way forward all right thank you so thank you so very much thank you thank you uh next item is item 4D which is the storm water presentation rate presentation by our Public's work Works Department all right good evening this is our storm water ad non-ad lorm assessment so this is the below the line assessment uh for the storm utility just give you a brief background the utility began in 1990 it was for up until 2005 was a uh individually build item sent out once annually 2010 a transition to a standalone bill came to utility bills in 2012 again as an annual uh billing that was difficult to collect and poorly collected on the city Side in 2018 we transitioned to the non evor assessment process in just a brief history in 19 a 2% increase 20 and 21 we did not have an increase 2022 was an 8.26 which was the CPI at that time last year 16 so this year the recommendation is 18.5% increase with the results and an annual increase of $21.30 per year on a single family residence without credits formal action will be taken to the 6:30 meeting for the public hearing for this assessment just give you a brief projection for the upcoming Five Years All Above uh double figures and will tell you that this is an expansion of the capital Improvement program during this time to bring it up to nearly fully funded level during this period so so certainly out years can be adjusted if the the council chooses not to push the capital program higher on a funding standpoint um but just give you a summary of the current year assessment approximately a little over 23,000 properties will be assessed uh first category being vacant we'll have a zero assessment we don't assess vacant properties the value of assessment is around $413 million um for the full collection for rate comparison this is an updated rate comparison from the budget Workshop these incorporate the 20 25 rates of other cities that are noted with stars roughly about half have already announced or have assessment going through on public hearings now so we're able to pull those rates additionally note the county today uh did their assessment for their storm water utility their rates were held where they are now but we continue to be uh in the upper quadrant we do move ahead of Palm Bay slightly U still behind Coco Beach Coco and Satellite Beach right so what is the 2025 budget being used for uh roughly 41% of the operating is in operating expenditures um 30% going to Personnel Services 14% into the capitalized Capital Improvements 10% of transfers and a little less 10% to The Debt Service the L share of the Personnel Services is salaries and overtime of the Staffing followed by the group health insurance on the operating side the line share again is impair maintenance um for the first time this time if you recall from the budget here and we do have some what normally would have been Capital expenditures moving to repair and maintenance this year for pipe repairs that in the past were capitalized will now be in repair and maintenance which is a increase in our maintenance budget for the operating expenditure the other side of that as the inter fund transfers it fund the street sweepers through solid ways and fund the JN fund admin fees and it fees so from the Improvement project standpoint about 82% of the Improvement projects will be held to maintenance with the remaining 18% will go to water quality kind of put that perspective for what projects we currently have on the books we have about 3.7 million in projects out there today about 90% of that is in water quality the bulk of that is through Opa funds through the city's contributions and D contributions and the soal grants the city has received remaining is 10 roughly 10% if you add in the $425,000 that are proposed brings it up to a $ 4.12 million Capital Improvement program list again line shares with the water quality program in perspective that is nearly equal to an annual assessment fully so the benefit of the grant grants for the water quality side has been highly beneficial to our programs but we still need the maintenance funds to carry on the operation the stormw system give me idea of the kind of the ramping of Capital Improvements in the current year with the incomer grants we have pushed this includes encumbered work to date we're above 3 million in capital previous years we were obviously much lower for the past four just give you a little bit input into what we had to project under florid statute 403 a few years ago we had to do a 20-year needs analysis give give it back to the legislators for the storm water utility uh during that time we projected and needed annual expens around $2 million to operate the storm utility from a capital standpoint this year we're funding around4 25,000 so to just give idea we're still um a little still shy play playing catch up for the capital Improvement standpoint and the inflationary pressure on capital is still pretty high we've not seen construction costs starting to come down as other costs have lower construction as not we were asked when we came forward at the previous meeting to talk about what the additional funding would be Friday by coming to this rate provides about $180,000 it allow us to expand the cleaning televising resisting pipe infrastructure getting ahead of it as opposed to being reactive getting proactive additionally accelerating some of the maintenance replacement activities give me an idea Gtech recently completed our water quality master plan that Master Plan calls for 122.4 million investment in water quality projects alone during the life of that project so that's another area that we could start to look at funding outside of Grants if we applying some of the stor utility funds to it the second part of that plan is to shift from water quality to flooding which would be another 675,000 in Consulting fees to get that process started and that would be a little shift and focus to start addressing uh flood prone areas and recurring flood areas and with that we'd be happy to answer any questions and again we'll be at the 6:30 for the actual public hearing yes uh member Cole yeah Kevin my question is I I notice you said that we do not assess vacant Lots correct uh I I guess I what's the rationale behind that because we still get run off off vacant Lots so is there a rationale behind not assessing them the base of the whole utility is built on an eru equivalent residential unit that has an impervious component so being that they are vacant they're deemed not to have that component so they dropped to zero okay um makes sense thank you yes I have a few questions um I'm trying to remember I don't know if you have this from last time time we were here last year I feel like when we did the 16% increase we were projecting that we would go down this year and start lowering was that correct no we actually had 18 projected for this year you did have we did have that okay um and then so how confident are we that next year we will be able to go lower is that based on us being able to start these processes in place that we will hopefully I mean I mean obviously there's inflation and there's expenses but yeah it's twofold so the development that's happening now doesn't come onto the tax roles for another year so there will be additional properties added on an annual basis okay so we do factor in some growth into that process we do also hope that as we take a step towards the higher rate today that does yield a benefit next year to all properties so the capital can continue to grow um and like I said the bulk of that driver in those oute is going to be the capital function um I think as we raised our operating this year for maintenance we're starting to catch up with what we have to do and we're looking more to get into the better process of proactive response instead of reactive so which I appreciate so thank thank you and I know that does cost money to do um so when we are talking about 18% um is that saying like somebody's annual storm water assessment is around $100 now and it will be around 120 moving forward it's 115 today it goes to 131 okay 136 yeah okay because I feel like sometimes we see like almost 20% increase that can be a significant number but we're talking an annual assessment for storm water which I think we've all said is really important and I think it's important to our citizens so looking around 130 so for a single family home without a credit it's $21.30 per year um and then secondly so does are for a single family residential how does that price compare to a business um or commercial piece of property that is calculated as each individual property so we kind of take a calculation it's very complicated calculation and try to figure out how many of those single family homes kind of fit on that property so if you're a regular property you have small impervious area you're going to have less um a less of a fee than somebody who's 100% or 90% impervious so it's all a a calculation so we try to proportion it based on impact essentially okay and this is a base rate move so for in since property may have 10 erus that's 10 equivalent residential units they had the same one last year as they did this year in all likelihood so the rate is changing in proportion so it's not that they're getting a higher rate they're getting the same full scale rate um and likewise again the base rate does not take an effect if you have ponds or storm water improvements permitted past 1989 to have water quality and quantity in them you get a credit so all new subdivisions new commercial properties all are receiving a credit so the base rate is reduced to that point okay and then my last question has to do with your the last slide here the benefits of this um where this additional funds would be going to water quality so I'm assuming that would be water quality in our storm water ponds and potential runoff into the Lagoon and then the second is flooding concerns for the citizens and development making sure we have adequate storm water ponds to prevent flooding yeah the flooding side is not really related to developing more the developed parts of the city that have recurring flooding a number of parts of the city developed in the 60s have no storm water infrastructure have undersized piping so that's the the Consultants take is they'll start taking those recurring flooding areas and start looking at how to make an improvement um so look at our existing flooding areas I appreciate that so thank you that's all I have remember Stoke yeah I just have one question the same color BL okay leave it alone ordinated tonight I just had one question it was based on a comment somebody made um I think to all of us that the reason the storm water fees are so high is because we're paying for the new development and I thought that's not making any sense because the new development has their own storm water they're holding their storm water on the property and the reason we're having storm water fees is for the runoff for the rest of the city correct yes yeah paying for the entire system as a whole yeah so there there are a number of areas that were developed without a stor infrastructure the entire Hopkins Corridor the entire Park Avenue corridors those areas were never built and a higher percentage will go towards the older infrastructure because it needs more maintenance more work okay but we're not like um punishing people for having development with with stowing water fees no they pay this they pay the same amount new new properties pay the same amount as okay properties they get the they'll get the 30% credit because they have to have a retention Pond and hold their water where some of the older areas don't have that so they don't get the 30% credit okay thanks and and this utility is a little difficult when it comes to comparison not every city operates where they staff their storm water utility they um for for instance Melbourne does not pay staff out of their storm water utility that is Staff of city of Melbourne already their util their utility fee is paid solely for the construction side so likewise the county used the Road and Bridge districts to do what we do with our stormw staff as far as maintaining ditches and other things so they use their storm water utility a little different so that it's not an Apples to Apples comparison in most cases so we have dedicated staff for storm water yes how many people is that do you around 19 19 okay okay thanks question I I want to follow up with uh M sto's question what does quality of storm water look like so the qual one right now look like what do you compare it to so the so right now we primarily have used technology such as baffle boxes that are we have a model that says how much nitrogen phosphorus a certain portion of the city is releasing through an outfall um that's a model DP accepts that's been vetted through the DP process we take that model determine where we want to put an improvement that will reduce the quantity of nitrogen phosphorus leaving that point so that's how we get our soil grants that's we get our D grants and so forth so the quality of the waterers in the nitrogen phosphorus released in the water that exits through these improvements we're reducing that in a lot of cases by 70% or so to get um a larger outall that's one of the things we found the water quality master plan is the next iteration is going to be a lot different it won't be as many baffel boxes because we've done a lot of those it'll be more adding bam to ditches u a little different change in our Improvement structure but it is improving the quality of the water exiting a storm water system so you'll hear the word total maximum daily loow tmdl that DP has come up with a number that we need to reach to Red we need to reduce the amount of nitrogen phosphorus entering the lagon once we hit that number then the IRL should be able to sustain itself and be have good enough water quality to start growing the sea grass back and get back to where it needs to be so our our goal along with the County's goal and every other municipality is to get to reduce the amount of nitrogen phosphorus to hit that total maximum daily load where the Lagoon can sustain itself again so uh what I understand is basically water quality to us means the the extraction of debris for the most part and testing for the chemical mixtures in the water is that what you're saying that's what qual quality of water mean to us the DP uses seagrass as the indicator of the health of Lagoon so they go out and they do transex the St John's river does and they and they see um how well the seagrass is grown we actually have had some in the last year doing pretty well in some areas so that is what they call the indicator as to the health of the Lagoon is the seagrass will grow and hopefully hopefully that will reduce reduce the pollutants in in the lagoon to get it to sustain itself so it's it's that's the seagrass transacts are what they use as the indicator for the healthy Lagoon right now so this year or in the last couple of years to help us with this process has the federal government or state government implemented any rules regulation to help us with this runoff the condition of the [Music] runoff there's been a a number of changes there's a new some new septic rules coming online uh keep in mind that the impact of the Lagoon is not only from storm water um you know the the sewer PL improvements that the city made at ospry where were funded by soril because it reduces the amount of nitrogen phosphorous released to the reclaim system which is used on lawns around town but the state is enacting a new storm waterer ordinance storm water rule it's the it's a draft that was drafted about a decade ago that's finally coming into effect there will change a number of rules particularly in Redevelopment and water quality focused um and then like I said septic was a big one the state is taking steps to require uh expansion of sewer systems to start removing the septic tanks from operation within the utility areas I can't remember the date they'll require either you to have an advanced septic if you or have to connect to sewer by a certain dat I can't remember what that was good very good uh Council any more question with that thank you on to item uh 4B or E I'm sorry this is the fire department's presentation on community Paramedic program Captain David neld who's leading the effort will provide a presentation good evening vice mayor city council my name is Captain David Neil and I'm responsible for the implementation of our newly established Community Paramedic program so today I'll going to give you guys a brief explanation of what the program is all about so what is paramedic uh paramedic paramedics assess injuries illnesses provide emergency medical care and may transport patients to the hospital or medical facilities simply put paramedic means hands of the doctor when it comes to the scope of practice that has been consistently evolving since the creation of the role in the 30s and 40s an unregulated service emerged in the state and local levels fire departments hospitals funeral homes towing companies and volunteers set their own standards transporting patients to the hospital as a primary focus until after the mid-century in the 1950s the beginning of modern EMS was mostly run by funeral homes and operated nearly half of the country's ambulances so today if you call 911 in just a matter of minutes two to seven um sorry 2 to S emergency medical providers will be standing in front of you to Aid in your medical condition to ensure you see the doctor in a quick and efficient manner when you arrive at the hospital you will be ultimately be seen by nurses and doctors that will tend your immediate medical complaint and subsequently either admit you to the hospital or release you from the hospital with instructions for possible follow-up care which is where the Gap currently exists in today's medical care do due to a multitude of issues I.E a lack of understanding a lack of followup Etc patients are not fully recovering after the hospital discharge and without the knowledge and resources needed they again utilize the 911 system then continue in a cycle of medical care that does not fix the underlying issue at the same time inundates the 911 system and ERS with often low Acuity patients that hold up ER beds um that are needed for more critical patients something has to be done not just to reduce the burden on the overall system but to educate the community members to finally get the medical care they've been lacking for years on end some members of the community may remember when a doctor would make house calls the community Paramedic program is similar to this extinct Service as being the extension of the doctor themselves helping to ensure patients are complying with doctor's instructions in their healthare so then what is a community paramedic it's a model of care whereby paramedics apply their training and skills and non traditional community- based environments often outside the usual the usual emergency response and transportation model the community paramedic practices with an expanded scope that includes the application of specialized skills and protocols beyond the base paramedic training the community paramedic engages an expanding role working in non-traditional roles using existing skills so after evaluating the data of the Titus fire department we determined that the issues creating the immediate need are the following annual increases in emergency and non-emergency calls for service increased demand to North Bard hospitals with low Acuity incident types lack of understanding on how to mitigate their medical needs outside the 911 system and avoidable medical issues created due to lack of resources it is important to understand that the that this program developed is developed and operated based on the needs of the community which in every which is different in every city and town so what are the goals we're going to help the citizens of Titusville navigate through their daily lives without losing their much desired Independence reduce overall health care costs reduce Hospital weight times overall educate and redirect community members to other resources available to better suits their needs help and help to enhance Services the existing Community Resources during this process we'll perform wellness and Vital sign checks perform fall fire and medical risk assessments and assist community members with obtaining the resources that fit their individual needs we will continue to evaluate the data to meet the social and medical social and medical needs of the tiful community questions I was just going to say thank you uh A friend of mine has an elderly watch out how you say elderly neighbor and I think this this would have really helped she fell out fell every night every night the fire department was there to pick her up and this would have been just a great benefit that so thank you mcole I'm going to take off my city council hat for a minute and put on my Parish Medical Center head do you are you coordinating with Parish we have a a problem with reoccurring people coming back to the hospital uh within 30 days because two things one is they don't pick up their medications and they don't follow the doctor's instructions oh is there any type of program that you have that can do Wellness checks for these people that are released and basically when we release them we know that they probably are not going to follow the guidelines but we have to release them so are there any type of Wellness checks that we can do to help that well so part of this we've kind of Partners partnered with uh Paris Medical Center's transition of care team with which I've been actively having conversations with their with their team um about the resources that are available to them so they've pinpointed some U clients of concern that I'll try to meet with um but as far as the rest of it goes it's mostly going to be meeting with meeting with these clients and then talking with their Primary Care um doctor try to make sure that they fully understand what is going on at home because often times that's that's part of where the Gap is it is that you know client patient what have you goes to see their doctor the doctor gives them things and they tell part of the story but they're not getting the whole picture so by a program like this coming in being able to have a relationship with the doctor to explain actually this is what's happening at home they can have a better understanding of the situation to prescribe and have a care plan that's going to be more fit their needs okay hey thank you I think it's a great program I appreciate it thank here Mr to yep I'm just how did you guys come up with this idea this isn't a brand new idea for us um this has been actually a program that's been around for 20 years in different part parts of the country and what's what's really created the need is seeing the volume go up and the number of 911 say calls go up ER weight times have gone up and we feel like there's there's a there's reason to get involved and help people people be able to live their daily lives out um are you guys partnering with the county at all yes yes so I I've I shadowed uh Bard County I met with them and I talked to them regularly about the needs in the overall County and we kind of work hand inand okay and I would just like to say thank you because I feel like whenever you guys or the police department does a presentation I we've done something right to create a culture where you guys have the ability to think outside the box to see what other communities are doing into TR try something and I just really appreciate that because I I I don't take that for granted so yes again I want to thank you and I love that uh uh that uh spirit that the fire department and the um Police Department had U that desire to be the best that they can be I like that and uh I thank all of you for what you do and the heart that you put into it because in the business that you're in one of the greatest qualities that you can have is that you care thank you else and you can pass that on to John over there that I said that I'll tell thank you very much thank you on to uh 4f which is the impacts of freshwater in the Indian River Lagoon we have uh Dr Todd osor from the University of Florida and Captain Blair Wiggins to provide the presentation thank you vice mayor and members of the of the council for the opportunity to come speak to you tonight this is something very near and dear to us we want to just um encourage more of what you heard about earlier about storm water um and talk about some freshwater issues in the lagoon that are affecting what we do and and like I said encourage more of this great work that's being done by Titusville with respect to storm water um would you lift the mic up then yes so it can project better okay thank you um just to put in perspective what what we were talking about earlier what was being mentioned about storm water and why it's so important you know the vehicles to get that nitrogen and phosphorus that were that were mentioned uh to the Lagoon that cause all these problems that we we know about are things like like fertilizer use and that that is Mo mobilized by storm water um what I point okay um we also have septic system issues right that that uh encourage more nutrient inputs uh and then finally the storm water system itself moves a lot of those things through the environment into the Lagoon um and we've seen the results of that which are are kind of devastating they they affect us on all levels um both enjoyment of the environment and the economy um and so our program has been addressing that particular issue in the lagoon and I'm going to let Captain Blair Wiggins talk about the the IND River clam project just a few minutes um and and kind of tell him what or let him tell you what we're doing so that then we can relate that back to the the issue of storm water how y'all doing tonight thanks for letting me come in and talk I'm captain Blair Wiggins and I'm uh I'm the one that started the Indian River clam restoration project hopefully you all heard about it going on the past five years we've uh We've surpassed our 45 million clam release Mark that we've uh that we we've strived for we've got a new initiative going with CCA uh right now which is a billion clam initiative and one thing that uh that the clam project was really started for was to improve the water Clarity to get our sea grasses and all of our life back in in the water and uh one thing that I noticed that I I've probably spent as much time in the water out here in the Indian River Lagoon as I have on land my whole life uh and one thing I've noticed is when I was a kid that you know every time I took dad's boat out I would have to wash it off every time because at the end of the day even if I was out for 4 hours I would have caked salt on my boat and the salinity the salinity of the river is really what we need to concentrate on now because the salinity is so far down and Dr Todd will get into this a little bit later but uh so far this past year our salinity has been great we've got oysters growing I've gotten salt caked on my boat a couple times but that's due to the lack of rain that we've had uh wish I could say it was due to great water that we've had come in but but uh you know it's due to the lack of rain that we've had and but um the salinity factor with the storm waterer runoff it's great you guys are doing getting the nitrogen out of the water the new project youall have that just got completed great project and and for what you have in plans for the future for the uh for maxb causeways you know quite uh you know it's it's it's it's a step in the right direction um Titusville here is the first city on the Indian River you know so everybody needs to follow a suit what you guys are doing as far as you know taking care of your storm water uh what we need is to figure out some way to control the salinity because with all the projects that we've got going out there uh the seagrass projects the clam restoration the oyster restoration all the projects that are going out there right now are going to be for not unless we can control the salinity out there with all the new rooftops parking lots and roads out there the water's making its way faster to the Indian River Lagoon which pretty much if we have a great salinity you know for for 6 months everything's growing great we got baby oysters we got our baby clams growing we get a we get any type of a tropical storm that comes in it's going to Deluge the Indian River with so much fresh water it's going to put it down to a point of non-sustainability um those are brackish water organisms that live out there and they cannot survive down and he can give you the numbers on that but they cannot survive the uh the salinity issue that comes in with our rainstorms that goes on so uh the storm water they've done great projects uh Headwaters down in Palm with the storm water uh Reclamation down there and uh that's something I know has been in talks up in the north part with Farmington being developed it's going to be a lot more fresh water that's going to come into the Indian River and uh like I said all the projects that are out there that are doing great right now be for not because if the selenity is not there we're not going to have the life so turn it back over to Dr Todd and let him show you about this that's exactly the point is that you know we've been focused so much on nitrogen and phosphorus by law that's what we're working on we've kind of ignored the the most basic principle of this this you know Estuary which is it's salty and we need that salt back this this figure just kind of shows you where things live and and where they're happy that uh purple dash line is what we call the mesohaline uh Fringe there that's the that's the that's what our Lagoon is kind of bouncing back and forth with right um and you can see where seagrasses kind of fall in that green line and where clams which we're really excited about and what we work with on a daily basis where they survive and those are survival r they're not necessarily Thrive ranges but that's what they can survive with and so our goal here is to kind of not see graphs that look like this and this is really busy and hard to see from where you are but everything under that purple line is is more or less um highly stressful for marine organisms right especially the ones that we're targeting so seagrasses and our filter feeders um our B valves like like clams and oysters and up here in your area I mean those are four or five um uh water quality stations that the water management District manages right out right out back here and they uh you can see that there are plenty of incursions that go below that line and I mean that's that's not an unnatural thing but if you look closely you'll see some of those those figures go from very high salinity to very low and imagine that stress you know on on an organism that lives in a you know a somewhat stable environment these are these are pretty flashy changes and and we point the finger at storm water all the time however um I want to say that you guys are doing a great job here in Titusville in fact when I dug into it I was really impressed with all the projects you have going on um to my count there's 24 projects over the last uh several years covering about 7500 Acres of watershed which is is is huge and that's great removing 27,000 pounds of nitrogen a year so Kudos right off the bat this is not a complaint this is a I'm very happy with this and it's very good um and all the different types of things that are used detention basins storm water swailes um dry detention and then at the end is wet detention I want to draw a distinction between those the first three more or less are are letting water basically infiltrate into the ground and at some point it's going to get to the Lagoon but it does get treated by natural soil processes and natural vegetation process the last one keeps water in place so it's it's really a wet retention Basin and so the water stays there and that's the one I want to focus on as being highly valuable especially to Titusville so this is your project the Dre Fe old storm water park I give it an A+ if I can grade it because I think it's fantastic so you guys are doing a awesome job with this um and it does I mean it uses all the bmps in the manual you know the important ones um especially the one about holding water in place meaning that water is not large volumes of water are not making it to the Lagoon and that's really our point right here is that that's what we're we're aiming for right and then there's public use benefits that are tremendous and I don't want to undersell that the other thing that you guys are doing that's very forward thinking is using using these you know managed aquatic uh plants type systems and those are floating aquatic systems that can be harvested out of your ponds and and the their nutrients physically removed but one thing that we don't talk about with all of these vegetated systems is that they are transpiring water away so when we hold it on the landscape and then let the plants do their thing they're both taking up nutrients but they're also taking that water and putting it back in the atmosphere and so that that water is not going to make it the Lagoon ever the the s hero in all that is concentration gradients we won't get into the chemistry of this we'll just say that it makes it work better the more plants the better and that's the kind of message we wanted to give you guys was that wet detention with vegetation is good and it's because it increases that of outward transpiration it also increases the effectiveness of nutrient removal in your systems right um the added benefit there of course is that the Lagoon doesn't get that water and if we look at the the local um opportunities know this is down just south of us in Indian River County this is the Osprey acre stormw water park now this is a fully vegetated vegetated Park and probably the the top-of-the-line kind of project and so we want to encourage that and tell you that that would help the Lagoon even more than the storm water efforts that are going on here okay and there's a there's Great Value to that so moving forward for for Titusville we want to encourage greatly that you keep doing what you're doing because it's really good it's actually setting the pace for the rest of Bard County and I want to say you you deserve an A+ for that um if we could prioritize wet retention over the other management options when appropriate of course I know there's a lot of a lot that goes into that we want to encourage that as much as possible because that removes the volume of water that's actually making it to the Lagoon or reduces it right and like as Captain Blair told you all of these things that we're doing in the lagoon across Bard County are kind of at risk and the major factor there is solidity when we we thin it out we got problems right um maximizing vegetation use increases that and finally there's a great benefit to the public of all of these green spaces and we haven't even talked about ecotourism but you know these treatment places like your Dre Park are going to become areas for the public to enjoy Recreation wise but ecotourism for bird watching is huge in Florida and people come from all around to some of the projects I've worked on in the past just to watch the birds because they're attracted to these systems and so they can they can be integrated into the into the city's footprint um with great success that's our Spiel can we answer any questions for you m Nels I I do have one question as for Captain Wiggins can you describe the project at the ma maxb Causeway to the people I mean I know about it but I don't think the project at maxb Causeway they're revamping the the maxbo causeway that got washed out in all the storms and in process of doing that they're getting clams from us to put into the to put into the Estuary in the right places where the clams can do their job and filter and spawn and hopefully create more clams like we've been doing the past five years uh the other you know a little bit more there some there are some wave attenuation um walls that going to go in there or objects they're kind of constructed objects that will reduce wind driven wave impacts on the on the um Causeway side as well as sea grasses so we're going to c-plant clams with sea grasses something that's been effective uh our research shows that it's a good it's a good thing to do together so there's some environmental enhancement going along with that kind of soft armoring of the shoreline there second question where we are now is there a way to keep the sality up other than we just don't put water in the lag good which of course it's going to take time there's been studies done and I know there's some uh some ideas about bringing in covert pipes to counteract when we do get tropical storms or when we do get a big you know seven eight inches of rain at a time um that all has to be studied and calculated how much you know fresh water would need to be let in to to counteract what you know what the what the to keep it at the right solinity okay so are other areas doing that can we do it uh up in um dtin they do have a pump they pump in salt water to keep the to keep their to Dustin Harbor I know that that keeps it nice and and salty up and there but no nothing nothing here yet okay but uh you know the the big thing to do is just try to keep all the fresh water that we can out that wasn't naturally being put in there in the first place okay thank you m stok yep um you mentioned that example I think in Indian River County can you explain a little bit about what that is in comparison to a traditional like storm water park exactly so there's there's a couple of things going on there I use it because of the vegetation um and the layout of the system how it's very much oriented for trail usage and things like that but they also use a lot of Woody vegetation meaning trees which are great water pumps right um now that's a that's a more mature landscape you won't get that right off the bat but that's they created that in a in a forested system right and that that Park is treating water on one side and actually letting it it enter the park itself and so what you don't see in that picture it's kind of a a little bit occluded is there's a treatment facility there um and then that's paired with the the open Park area so there's there's a lot of um public use of the area but it's wooded it's forested and one benefit of that that that's more um financially based is less maintenance involved in that system um because these are kind of expensive you know I noticed in the presentation before it was great to see the the breakout of cost um for these things and they're not they're not inexpensive you know um it requires some input but but there are creative ways to mitigate the the management or the maintenance of some of those things and like I said The more vegetation we can use um Less open mode space the better for the system in that it's attenuating that fresh water for us okay and then just to clarify what I think you heard for maybe help with us on Council of things that we can do is to continue to encourage like the storm water improvements with the presentation we heard today uh try to aim for the wet retention as opposed to some of those other options if we can and then maybe look for green spaces within our community where we could have some vegetation and um and larger areas for storm water parks and then this green space and trees absolutely yeah some of the the the mechanisms that are being used right now you know like the the the detention basins that that freely drain in the bottom if they can be converted to standing water Wetlands even better you know that's that's a retrofit usually a clay lining kind of thing soil manipulations and those things but they still have to have flood control so there's going to be overflow wear on all of these type things right and then we know that we can't avoid that for these large storms like Captain Blair mentioned however there's opportunity to use those wet detention everywhere and wherever we could Implement them that would be great yeah and I think that's something too when we have a lot of like applications coming before us we're always looking at our zoning map land use map and seeing kind of what makes sense um for the vision of our city and where we could potentially have some of of these improvements so um this was very helpful thank you thank you member Cole uh quick question it I'm assuming there is no chemical solution available to in increase the solinity in the Indian River there's no chemicals available that we could use not the scale that it would require yeah yeah um many many many many dump trucks full ass salt that that would be a huge Endeavor and a difficult one to kind of I thought it might be a tablet or something you can well you guys have seen the the the seagrass response right in the news yeah mosquito Lagoon and even Banana River both have gotten like a a a Resurgence of seagrass and we're really happy about that meaning the water quality as you guys discussed before is that the place where things are are recovering the holding portion why you're not seeing it right out here is really solinity dependent and that's that's something the scientific Community is just finally kind of we've been scratching our heads for a while going why why isn't the whole system responding it's a slay issue there there's a lot of people that suggest why not open up an inlet right here so we would get flushing every day and get all the bad water out and that would totally change this environment to what it was never intended to be by you know whoever created it but uh it would it would change the environment so much you would bring in so many predators that would come in and it would just it would ruin what we had okay thank you well we I want to thank you because uh I I know that in the four years that I've been here we have gotten some good reports uh on uh how we are uh doing our best to move forward staff is always monitoring everything but is sometimes it's uh you uh it gets hard you want to do better and uh compared to the reports that we get from the county uh we up here in Titus Phi are doing a lot of lot of good stuff with what we have I know that we can continue to try to do better and that is the goal is to continue to try to do better uh there is no Miracle Solution to our situation that that dump truck of salt tons and tons you know this it just doesn't work it will have the Pacific Ocean fresh water if we got all of the salt out of it that that we need but we thank you for uh coming and sharing with us we thank you for uh giving us a you know a public grade because everyone that is watching us today need to know that we are making a difference with the Improvement of Indian River lagon thank you so very much thank you you CH can I say this can I say this one more question I didn't see this isn't a question I talked to uh the guy that's in charge of construction on Parish Park mhm and he said St John's Water Management went out in the water and it is starting to grow sea grass all right so good stuff that big breach that we had in mosquito Lagoon from the uh from the storms it brought in all that nice fresh salt water the sea water what that did it brought the salinity rate up to like 37 parts per thousand which is a perfect perfect you know environment for sea grass to grow from seed it was a seed basically event that happened in mosquito Lagoon and it's taken this long for the water to filter in the Indian River up into the Banana River I was in the Banana River yesterday as a matter of fact and there's a lot of Cass and bever so it's it's looking good it's just I I hate to see it you know all go me too all all die from fresh water that's a good thing fingers crossed thank you thank you thank you um I think that uh we are ready for petitions and requests we have any card bill Klein 3 Indian River Avenue I have a petition in that I would like to see a testing program for the storm water runoff this storm outflows and the water that comes from the Retention Ponds that have direct water flow going into the Indian River Lagoon we know that fresh water can be a problem also pollutants are a problem we know that we've done a lot to try to prevent it but we don't test to see if we really are when Dre field was built an excellent facility it was tested for about one year they had all kinds of plants planted around the ponds they had trees they had thousands I have a list of everything that was planted they stopped testing it after about a year and more than half the plants have died since then there was probably over 2,000 um oh some of the grasses that were around there that absorbed the water the muig grass totally gone in fact they were mowed down when they were blooming I have pictures just before they were mowed to the ground there's not a stick left a lot of the trees are missing now no one's testing to see if it's working the way it was when all the plants were there I think it is very important to test and observe what's going on find the quantities of pollution the quantities of fresh water that are leaving the land the Indian River Lagoon is not pushing water up from the bottom the freshwater is coming from the land the storm water is coming from the land the pollution going into the Indian River Lagoon is from the land I really think we must test and determine what is there just taking paperwork and says we got this Pond and it does this wonderful thing we don't know if it does unless it's tested and proven having a baffle box that's great when they're working good but are they meeting the requirements are they meeting their design criteria just saying you have a baffle box doesn't mean it's good but you got to test it and prove it and this is what I would like to see done thank you thank you Joe I'm going add this yeah sorry Bill when that came up when that came up the last time I did call Virginia Barker the Department of Natural Resources for the county because I she's in charge of the soral program and my thought is if if this is something we need to do it needs to be the whole county that does the testing not just us cuz they're in charge of the whole County and I'm just going to tell you she said jolen I know what's going into the Lagoon and the Lagoon will tell us when is when it's healed and she said before I spend money on testing I'd rather spend the money on fixing it is much cheaper to test than a lot of the fixings how do you you think when they send up the spaceships they they don't test to see if they're going to come back they test they test and proove what we need what I'm saying is you need to test what's going in you cannot assume it's not going in and what I've seen Titusville does not have water flow from the south coming up it doesn't have water flow from the north coming down right that pollution in Titusville area comes from Titusville we are responsible for our area it's not a county problem it's not coming up from Lake okachobee it's not coming up from Port Canaveral it's coming from us we need to test our pollution not assume somebody's going to bail us out Tom Perez Washington Avenue you know I'd like to uh second everything that uh bill has said and with all due respect to the PRI presenters I think uh that was good cheerleading but it doesn't really address our specific problems here in Titusville okay we've known about salinity issue I'm a scientist by background I don't have to be convinced about that okay I do think we have a lot of issues use the grass growing is great but it doesn't tell you much else I mean sure it'll support systems but there's other things in the water especially here in Titusville that need to be addressed and unless we test we can't do anything about it yeah we can see the grass grow but I wouldn't go into that water especially here I live on the water I'm afraid to go in the water we got plenty of people here that have been infected by the water here thank you next yes morning r p s John I am on the board of directors and the natural resource co-chair for the League of Women Voters of the Space Coast I'm also on the executive Council of the Sierra Club Florida chap of turtle Coast group both organizations support Dr TOS Todd o Osborne and Captain Blair Wiggins and we thank them both for their dedication and work they have done for our clean water um and we hope the city council would take under serious consideration uh their recommendations and suggestions thank you thank you you lle Thompson Mims Florida so that picture that you see there that was taken in the northern Indian River Lagoon um up by cowpen Creek um Dr Osborne talked about the seagrass transects that picture was taken by Lauren Hall from St John's River Water Management District um on the transact that that is out right offshore of cowpen Creek that grass came up like that in 6 months I mean it went from bare bottom to what you see in that picture and there is miles of seagrass up in the northern Indian River Lagoon now the the shoreline off a Titus Hill used to look like that it it did I'm I'm not lying it looked like that when I was a kid it looked like that in the 1970s you know up until the the 1980s we can bring it back but we got to do something about all the fresh water that we're putting into the lagon the St John's River Water Management District is working on some large scale projects in the South End of the county where they're um reversing the flow of some of the large canals we don't have anything that that's easy up here so you know um I've talked to several people from the Water Management District they they believe that the solution for Titusville is a collection of storm water parks spread throughout the city and and then to utilize the large Wetlands that we've been blessed with no other community has what those resources that we have for holding storm water so um they want to work with us but they need some somebody from leadership that you know to to step up and say we're interested we want to do this and they will work with you um the gentleman that's in the that's in charge of the um projects his name is Mike m mcmonagle and he's the Basin project manager for the northern Indian River Lagoon and um he really wants to work with us the other piece of paper that I gave you you know you hear all the time that Titus FS ahead of everybody else that that is the um completed projects just from to save our Indian River Lagoon money and you can see we are at the top and that is because of the hard work of Sandra reer and you know she has every time there's a new opportunity where they release a little bit of money every year she manages to get a project for Titusville in every single year and um it's amazing the work that she's doing so you you guys should be really proud of her so um thanks for that if you have any questions about the project on the causeway I know all about it I do thank you I do wait wait wait sorry you guys so describe the project on the causeway okay um it it is a multitrophic project that addresses um multiple habitats so it doesn't just address one problem it it's addressing shoreline erosion it's addressing seagrass restoration clam restoration Recreation itself for human beings you know when I was a kid every Causeway um in in Bard County had sandy beaches they were lined with Australian pines you remember jolen there were picnic tables under the Australian pines and people would line the causeways and it was a great place to recreate but o over time erosion um and the attempts to control the erosion have resulted in all of our causeways being lined with rocks our Causeway there's a total between the North side and the southside of over $12 million being spent on our Causeway and and and those projects are designed to address the erosion project and and and and and make the cway you know so that it can withstand the in the rising water and and the increase in hurricanes and things that we're going to see in the future but also provide recreational opportunities for our residents I mean the the causeways are the window to the river for people that can't afford to buy a house that that's next to the river because most of the Rivershore has houses all along it it's private property you can't just drag your kayak through someone's yard and put it in the into the Lagoon so the causeways are are window to to the Lagoon so the the wave attenuation devices you've seen the great big concrete pyramids that are out on the causeway right now there will be a double array of those um they will have 27 meter openings every once in a while so that manatees can go in and out and um humans on kiteboards and and wind surfing can go in and out you cannot operate a motorized vehicle in it no jet skis um and and so the way the design of those um pieces of concrete you'll notice that they're Hollow they have holes in them so when you have big waves we have the longest fetch in the entire Indian River of waves slamming into our Causeway because they can start out at the 528 Causeway and come through the draw at the naasa causeway and and hit our Causeway is 21 miles that that those waves have traveled to pick up strength before they slam into our South Causeway and would you is and I've told you this many times it's the most significant horseshoe crab spawning beach in the entire State of Florida it's very very important and so when the waves hit those um concrete Hollow structures the power of the waves is diminished it's knocked out but this the supended solids that are traveling in the waves will continue and they'll settle along the shoreline and they'll actually build a beach so if it's if it's been properly designed which I really hope it has we should we're going to put sand on the beach to begin with but those structures out in the river should continue to add sand to what we put there so we'll always have a beach for us to recreate on and for the horseshoe crabs to spawn on and the Shorebirds to come eat or horses crab eggs and life will be good and and Titusville will be the Envy of the rest of the county because we're going to have the most fantastic resources on our County I mean on our on our Causeway the north side um I wasn't real happy as you know with that project but I've learned to live with it um it it it will be a more parklike setting with a concrete driveway concrete parking places a seaw wall but um the the the county had to sign a memorandum of understanding with FWC that they would always maintain a Sandy Beach on the offshore side of that seaw wall for the spawning horseshoe crabs so I see Kevin in the audience I told Kevin year two three years ago when we started down this path you know that not to worry about the sandy beach that the kite bers need that the horseshoe crabs would save our beach thank you and I want to say this I want to Echo what Laura Lee said Sandy you have a nose for finding money an absolute nose and for those that don't know it our budget is probably 50 million 52 million a year and Sandy finds much more money than that good hi I'm Dr Kathleen oror and I'm an epidemiologist with 30 years experience in human health and um and from a background in public health and that's important because the thing we've learned about protecting the health of people is prevention is much more effective than treatment it's less expensive in the end and we have heard about the importance of having these storm water parks that is a preventive method to prevent damage to the Indian Lagoon and so I just want to encourage you as your getting requests for rezoning think about what it means if you take away the Green Space the recreational space and put in hardscapes you're going the opposite direction so please think about this as people are putting in requests for so many projects and don't rezone and take away that space thank you thank you can I do one more ask yes thank you thank thank you vice mayor um laury is it okay if we I I donate my photograph to the audience so that some of the audience can see it all right all right uh next any more cards we have Trenton Mansville no um Andrew Connors this is the first meeting now not the council meeting okay okay there's not an agenda item on here so um Dorothy poan p o SS i n yes oh for later okay all right um that concludes that manager that's well if all is finished uh let's take a 10-minute break and we'll start the uh regular meeting everybody return to their post at 20 after e