the TEC meeting. So, let's call the meeting to order and let's begin with a roll call, please. Chairman Mjek >> here. >> Vice Chairwoman Thompson. Member Berdett >> here. >> Member Tucker >> here.
>> Member Miller >> here. >> Member Delgado >> here. >> Member Nico >> here. >> Alternate member Young. Alternate member Rosa. To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands nation,
indivisibley and justice for all. Up next is an approval of the minutes. So I'll take a motion on that. Can I say something before then or do we have to have a motion to talk about it?
I have a change. >> You have you would like to request a change to the to the agenda >> minutes. >> To the minutes. Oh, well, yes, of course. But usually we do a a vote and a and then have the discussion on what the edits are,
>> if that's okay. >> Well, let's start discussing. I motion that uh we approve the minutes from last from last time. >> Okay, we have a motion. >> I'll second for discussion. >> Yes. >> Fire away. >> It has me voting and I don't think I was
at the meeting. >> Was this the one you made? >> It's just a typo, I'm sure. But everywhere there was a vote, I was listed. >> You were here in spirit. I guess >> that was me just copy and pasting it through from a template. I'm sorry. Yeah, you're right. I checked the date
and I thought, well, maybe this was a week month before. Okay. >> Sounds like a mistake. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's all it is. >> Any other recommended changes to the minutes?
Okay. Hearing none. Um all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Hearing none. Passes unanimously. We have petitions and requests from the public up next. And the public is Stan. Welcome, Stan.
>> Okay. Uh Stan Johnson, uh been a resident here for over 50 years. And uh I brought this with me. It's it says to sit around and I'm going to read just the first sentence of it. It says because it a lot of people say, "Well, I'm I'm I'm not going along with this
thing." It says, "Go placidly amid the noise and haste. Remember what peace there may be in silence as far as possible without surrender. Be on good terms with all persons. I read that I read that to you because
it has to it says about the surrender things and I think that we shouldn't surrender. Uh and we have some things that people are surrendering today here in the city of Titusville and in in our nation for example is that
uh some many people in the military were told that Agent Orange was not a big deal. Of course they've died of it. I've had friends die of of uh prostrate of and uh of other problems by Agent Orange. And I believe that there are
more people who died who went to Vietnam than those who died in Vietnam. I've got uh I'm wearing this Navy veteran hat. I didn't go over to to NAM,
but uh my my dad was a veteran. I got three uncles that were veterans. I got a great-grandfather who was shot and he was he was a prison of war and I have a great uncle who died in a prisoner of
war camp. Um but uh the things that what is what is bothering me is something that a lot of people want me to give up on and that is what the city has done with this. I have many people come to me and say,
"Shut your mouth about it. We've heard it enough. Spraying people with sewage." Now, I want to say that that it's disappointing to me that council, four members of council still don't recognize this is a problem at all and they have
some kind of weird justification of it, which doesn't make sense. But I'm going to say that this this is harm I'm saying this as a professional engineer. this is harmful to the harmful to the health. And yet the city has four council
members who say it's not harmful. It's okay. It's okay to do that. But the thing is is that we met we have we have even learned as a child or even before kindergarten that sewage is harmful to
the health and it should be regarded that way. But however, the city of Tyville has sprayed sewage in the air and aerosol for months and says it's okay to do that, but it's not okay. So, I'm asking you to continue what
you've also done in the past and some other agencies is that to say it's not it's not helpful, but you don't have to argue it argued a lot. I'm just saying this is just something that uh uh that really grates me a lot because I'm a
professional engineer and I'm completely disregarded for my status to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public. This is one of um and what what we understand is that the question is who writes the history?
It's a history. It's whoever wins in this case is this is an example of one of the signs I had that was taken away from the uh ponds and I was able to get it back. But they also took took some of my my signs and so it says here it says
that uh it says this dated December the 22nd. On December the 19th or thereabouts the city said they contained it. They didn't. It was flowing in FDO in our rightway of US
of US one. It was flowing to Space View Park for months for months. So anyhow, so the the the written history is it's not true what I'm saying to you. So I'm I'm I'm asking you to uh
u in this case of what I read to you, it says it says about surrendering says beyond surrender. I read that to you. What a lot of people are doing in the t in the city of Tyville. They're surrendering to dishonesty and that's
these are examples I've given you surrendering to dishonesty. I'm asking you to continue to tell the truth in spite of the dishonesty that we have in our city. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you, Stan.
>> Okay, let's see. We have old business and new business and we have people here for new business. So, why don't we put the old business on the back burner and move new business to current, please? Thank you. >> I'll make a motion that we um rearrange
the agenda and um put new business um in front of old business. Second. >> Okay, we have a motion in a second. >> I'll second that. >> Oh, that's okay. We can third if you like.
That's >> any discussions hearing none. All in favor say I. >> I. I. Any opposed? Like sign? It passes unanimously. Great. Let's move on to new business. Well, I guess staff, this one's up to
you. Shall we do a coin toss or rock, paper, scissors? >> Well, we um we took Hi, I'm Sandy Rer. I'm the public works director. Um we took uh alternative uh water supply brackish water source feasibility study
task order to council um a month ago now and they recommended they wanted to see TEC's um opinion and recommendation to move forward with that. So that has been attached to your agenda item. Some of the discussion at that council meeting was questioning other sources of
alternative water supply. So we did ask the same consultant to give us a task order for looking at those other sources. So there that one is also prior to looking at which which chose an alternative water source um we would go with. So there's a second task order
that kind of does a preliminary high-level look at I think six of them which um you can see in the staff report that we put together a a short overview of possible alternative water sources or storage or wellfield recharge um and
some some opinions some staff recommendations um so I think it's up to you to discuss ask questions and provide council a recommendation to move forward Well, what say you, Board of TEC?
Do you have questions for staff? Surely you do. So, just so I'm clear, oh, we're just making a recommendation whether or not to go forward with these evaluations. Yes. Um we're not looking at current
currently replacing our current well field. We're looking at um as you are all aware, you know, um cities including us are getting close to our consumptive use permit. We're getting close to, you know, where our our cap for that water. If we want to increase that with St.
John's, we have to show that we're looking at other alternative water sources. And that would be in conjunction with our current wellfield right now. eventually maybe 50 years down the road our current wellfield might not have any water and the these alternative water sources will be where we get the water from. So we we
recommended looking at brackish because it is it is drought res you know it's drought proof um and um St. John's won't have there is no cup because because there is an unlimited source groundwater brackish. Um but this is just the
preliminary feasibility. Can we do it? Will will can we do a hybrid with our current what are we going to do with the brine? All that preliminary before we even spend a lot of money looking at the design and moving forward. Is this the way to go? Can we do it and what's the feasibility?
I mean, as I as I looked through all this uh over the last few days, I you know, the the second item, just the alternative water sources, I I feel like those are all and there's some good options there, I think. But I
I I felt like overall seeing what they came back with with the brackish water feasibility, I feel like it's going to be very valuable. And and Mike, I know you've brought up some of the the brackish water concerns and I I absolutely agree with those and I've I've tried to dig
into it as much as I can, but I feel like getting that feasibility study is is definitely the first step to to really being able to look at this. Um, I have lots of questions about the brackish water, but they're questions that I don't feel like are going to be answered here and now by staff. Like,
they're questions that I I would want to know once this report is done and and see what kind of things it shows. So, you know, I I feel like the the brackish water study would be viable and and important personally.
>> Hector, so let me understand the St. John's water management district uh has a deadline for the usage of water and therefore you're trying to satisfy that with in the
future these could be sources of water. Is that as clear as that? >> Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. We, you know, we're we're needing to increase our current consumptive use permit. So, in order to do that, they're going to want to see that we're looking at this future possibility of how other other water
sources. I just had was at a meeting with them this morning and they mentioned it. I took a picture of their slide. >> Okay. So, so since this is not the first time that this happens because it happens every how many years, what is the cycle on this? >> Yeah, the current um cup is through
2030. So, but if your needs get to those values beforehand, that's a reason we would go before St. John's. Otherwise, 2030, you have to do um a reallocation. >> Yeah, that that answers the future deadline. But what is the cycle of
reporting to the St. John water district? Is it every 10 years or five years? Is it >> I think it's every 20 like the current one was done. >> That's what I was trying to get. >> Ashley Smith, assistant public works director, by the way. >> Okay. Nice to meet you. But what what I
was getting at is the last time the city did this uh the city was a much smaller city, the city made some projections about population. >> Mhm.
And so to you or your department go back and take a look at those those numbers that were given to them and say, "Oh, by the way, now we just happen to have 50,000 people now versus the 38 or something that might have been. I'm just using
>> I've been in in the city for a long time." >> That is part of our exercise to go to St. John's is looking at our current demands and estimated populations and that's part of how you justify to them an increase basically whether our
population has maybe increased faster than we expected or demands are just higher um in general but that's part of it but the alternative water they want to see that communities are considering that too even with the demands we have today
>> right so so you have you have look at look looking forward and looking back and see whether you met your goals or pass them or otherwise >> and and then that's part of your report. >> Yeah, that's part of our request to to even make a request with them. We have
to do that whole entire exercise. >> Okay. and and and so given that uh are you what is your requirement just to say I'm going to look at these different types of waters uh for future use or do you have to
justify whatever you pick like brackish water or reclaimed water or any other kind of water? >> I don't think you have to justify which one. I think you know they have their typical ones and as long as you say this is this is what we're looking at. These are the steps we've taken. this is where, you know, we think we're going.
Um, but I think they'd be happy with any of them that they've that are feasible. Like I I've seen brackish water that seems to be the most have seen reclaimed reuse. Um, >> yeah, I don't think it's a commitment, which is what you're maybe looking for. It it's just presenting to them that
we're looking into those feasible options, but it's not a commitment saying this is the path we're going for at this time. >> So So it's just a list of options. This is what I'm going to be looking at. uh between now and 30 >> a list of options and and showing that we're moving forward you know showing
that you know we've council has funded this type of study you know we're not just saying we're going to do it we're showing action >> so that's I was that was my next set of questions is is the funding required uh on any of those like uh okay I went
with XYZ uh associates uh water people and they're going to look at brackish water and I have a contract with them or I'm going to have a contract with them. Mike, what what is what are the legalities of of what you're putting down on paper? >> I don't think that they have specific
requirements, but I think it does look better to say that we have we have already begun a feasibility that's under contract to look at these alternative waters. We we wouldn't present something to St. John's that has not been committed. I don't think like what Sandy
was saying, you we don't want to go and say we're we might do this and there's no real commit commitment. And I think if this practice water study or the other alternative study is um approved by council, that's what we want to present to St. John's to say we have approved this and it's underway. But
what those future steps are would still be unknown. There is no cut or dry. You have to you have to show me this. I think it's they they look at what you're doing and say, "Okay, you know, we see that you're you're progressing towards this. We can increase your cup by this or you're not doing anything. We're keeping your cup the same, you know." So
I don't think there's a cut fast. You must follow these. >> I was I was just trying to get the >> Yeah. What's What's the minimum and what else? >> No, I would expect that if we have an alternate water supply, they may change our well-field sources. >> Yeah. >> Because our superficial aquifer is the
most at risk. Our flidian is not, >> right? >> So St. John's may want to phase out of two and three if we do have an alternate source. >> Okay. >> So we could anticipate that in a long-term plan. There may be commitments to phase out those wellfields. they've been dialed back in the current cup.
They will dial back from their previous cups because they are forced implementation. So I would expect if we do have an alternate source, they will dial those back further or take them out of circulation because that those are the two susceptible oil fields to salinity. They they will go salt if they
continue. So Kevin, you noted in here under item three about ASR that you say ASR is not a new water source. It does not create additional water supply. I beg to differ. That's exactly what it's designed to do. At least the publication
that I saw from the EPA that recommends that ASR is one of the better sources of where to sink your storm water when you have in excess. So, our well fields are drying up, I believe, because we're pulling out more
water than our impervious surface on top now allow us to recover. And the more we have grown, the more impervious surface we have made, which means less and less water goes into the well field. So about 20, 30 years ago,
30 years ago, we started sucking up salt water because we had reduced the hydraologic pressure of the fresh water on top of the saltwater field below. Well, the only way that you recover that is you put water back in the ground.
And we're not doing that. In fact, you're not even studying that because you claim it doesn't work. >> And I beg to differ. >> If you look at the last one, storm water capture, it does recommend that expanding storm water um reuse through the city and exploring recharge that is
percolated through the soil is recommended over direct injection. Um, I think as we discussed, you know, I think I think we can move forward with looking at this brackish alternative water supply while also looking at a wellfield recharge feasibility that utilizes storm
water or reclaimed and and and also do those concurrently at the same time. >> I would agree with that that we need to be doing both because this is a longer term recovery process. You know, I was here when when they built Astronaut High School and when we created the area of
critical concern. We defined it, but we really didn't honor it. And we don't really use that methodology that we plan for that throughout the city, which why shouldn't we do pvious pavement everywhere? You know, the simple things that help water
get back in the ground. They help get rid of storm water. it it I don't know why we don't require that, but that to me is just a no-brainer. So, there are things that we can do that we need to do to start reducing our storm water and our flooding wetlands is
one of them. That's one of the things that we're working on. But how we can capture that water and where to put it and putting it in the ground where we need it most, that that's almost like a winwinwin, right? I mean, you're taking water out of where you don't want it to go, which
is the lagoon, and you're putting it where you want it to go, which is into the aquifer. And you're doing two things. Not only are you getting water that you'll get back later, but you will also recover that aquifer and continue to push that salt water down, increasing the hydrostatic pressure and increasing
the size of your reservoir. You can't help but do that. That's just the confining car layer that we have here. So we should make use of that where other places in the county can't and we should absolutely have a study in parallel that looks at that as well.
>> Yeah. Some time back uh the city of Rocklage was one of the first cities to use injection wells uh as return to the aquifer water.
So there's got to be some data from these guys that uh and and that was done locally. I know that because I knew that I worked with the mayor of Rocklage at the time and so that that was a project that they have
for uh when you could not get rid of reclaimed water that nobody wanted. And we've been through that. Okay. uh the schools and the and and and and the golf guys didn't want it. Nobody wanted it. Uh I was one of the first
ones to hook up at LCA when it was offered. So I I live through all of that. I've been here long enough for that. But you may want to look into the city of Rocklage and and their history of injection. Uh I believe they have done that and I don't know if they're
still doing it. Uh but we may want to learn some lessons learned from them anyway. uh you know >> we we actually do have a study going on right now um looking at reclaimed ASR wells um for the plants so when we have
excess it doesn't go into the river we can inject it in so we we've already started that study but that's not that's not well fueled re recharge that's somewhere to store it um at the plant but yes but this but yes I I agree this will give you a way to store it
>> yep send it down and create your curtain >> of fresh water against the curtain of salt water coming in, >> right? >> And let science take care of itself. >> Member Tucker, >> totally off this subject, but curious,
is there an urban service boundary in our Okay, so is there a finite limit? I mean there's going to be a point where we get to that limit and no growth. So I just
wondered if that was part of the equation. >> I think you mean as developments coming um we do look at concurrency. That's one of the early stages where we look at our existing demands at that time and it
takes into account an annual average and then we also look at other development that's in the queue to evaluate is there um available excess capacity for what's being proposed. And so and then later in the process of when development is
happening, we do a similar review um with water allocation requests. Um I think that's what you're kind of asking. >> Were you asking that, you know, at some point we're going to be built out. Do we need all this water? >> No. >> No. >> That that was the point though. Okay. At
some point we will be built out. Will there be enough water >> when we're built out? >> So that's part of our um >> part of the prediction for the future. And that's part of that's part of the our discussions with St. John's is that cup allocation. That's the limitation of
how much water we're allowed to take out of the ground right now. So that takes into account population development and making that request if we are justified in an increase to to continue serving, but they want us to look at alternative
water. >> So they want us to stay ahead of progress, ahead of the development. Basically, >> you do have to prove to them what our population is right now, what our demands are right now, and then projecting that out. So, if you start
seeing that our existing cup is getting limited, then that would be a justification if we can prove the population increases would justify an increase. Okay. >> What happens when the district no longer allows increases? So that's when you you
you essentially do have to have an alternative water supply source source. >> You hit the limit. That's >> we can't then we can't service. We can't service anyone more. It would only be exist. >> So then we finally pull back on the gas on the development gas pedal. >> They can do wells. You know, there's
other options for them. >> No, they have to go to the district and get a permit for I mean again it gets back to the same thing. They're pulling from the same surficial aquifer that well fields two and three are. So >> you know what? It's a really good question. It begs to differ. Are we going to We don't live in a limitless
society in a limitless world. We have finite resources. We got to recover the water wherever we can, right? >> That's why we want to look at these >> or stop developing on it. So, we're and using more of it because at some point,
what are we going to start going dry? You know, we had a hiccup back in the 90s that caused us to have to eventually end up with this debt that we now have for Wellfield 4. That wasn't as well thought out as originally planned. It would have been nice if we actually
owned the property and owned the wellfield, but we had to make a quick move because we started souring our wells because we were overdeveloped. that happened after astronaut high school was built and we didn't realize the impact that we had had
and we really I don't think still understand the ramifications of it but we are suffering from that and the need for more water is because of our need for growth. There's a finite amount of it and at some point the district may not allow us
anymore. So we have to be prepared for that too. So recovering and reusing what we have in every way possible going forward is reuse is going to have to become the name of the game everywhere we can
capture reutilize and recover. Uh m I guess a procedural question. So, I'm like I said a little bit ago, I'm in favor of looking into the brackish water option, but I also do agree with Mike that the I guess the ASR as it says in
here might be a good uh complement to the the brackish water. So, just cuz I don't totally understand the the work order stuff and all that like does that would could that be included in that brackish water study or does that need to be a separate thing? That would be my
suggestion is we can move forward with issuing the task order for the brackish water as with a recommendation to go to them for change order to come back and say hey we also at the same time want to concurrently look at um you know ASR with storm water um reclaim reuse um so
I don't think it makes sense to have two separate people looking at this right um I think I think having it concurrently um so we can bring it whatever your suggestion is I can bring to council and say we can either approve this task order now and come back with you with that change order or we can go table it
again get the whole to get the whole um shebang to say from the current and then and then approve that. So there's two ways to go. I don't think we can get because this is going on the 28th as council table it's the 28th. I don't think we can get the total price from the consultant by then. But I think you
know it's up to council whether they want to move forward at the 28th and then we bring we bring the um extra change order back to them or table it again and bring the whole thing. So that'll be up to them. But you guys would recommend what you would want to move forward with.
>> Uh yes. uh talking about whoever is going to do this. Are there a lot of people with recharge experience around the state that can that can actually say we did this, we done this and we know what's
what happens and we understand the aquifer and in different areas of the of the state is totally different because it's a series of caverns. uh you know just because they're an A and E doesn't mean they can do everything. Yes, I will raise my hand
and go yes I can do that and then you know go to AI and see and see what it says or go to or go to P you know or go to Microsoft and find out I have experience on a lot of that. So I I can I can speak that way uh because I saw it
a lot because what I was asking did not exist. So therefore I had oh yeah we can build one no you can't nobody has it. So so again I'll I'll re I'll I'll go back to do these people have some background in
what we're asking them to do. >> Yeah they have background in it. They also can sub to hydro geologist to do the underground effort. >> Okay. >> It really is depend on what's being asked. Brackish water supply is going to be a different look than the ASR system. You know, um
the ASR concept we have currently working on the reclamation side is for pure reclaim is for byproducts of the sewer plants, right? >> Not necessarily creating ASR pocket inside the well field. They're creating them for the purpose of the reuse system >> mainly for disposal. We're not looking
for withdrawal again. We're looking to dispose of the the product over product we have during storms, not during regular days. We have the ability to discharge without that. But for the brackish water, they're really going to give us a hydraological look at what that water looks like when it touches
our lime softening plant. Is our plant even capable of treating it? Can it be blended? There's going to be a whole bunch of information come out of that. Right. The last time we looked at it, they said blending an RO and lime softening at our current plant was the best option. We have talked about doing
RO plant in the well fields to allow them to be sourced. not completely treated enough for lime softening to finish it. But those are the options they're going to give us. But certainly this company can handle that level of view as it gets tighter into more details of well drilling and
things. Those will be very specific hydrogelological that will come in >> injection is is another science >> alto together right >> because of the aquifer. And that's why I asked the question the way I did, Kevin, so that you know, we get the right people, not that they go out and say,
"Okay, can who else can has been has been doing this?" I I lived in the city long enough when Kentu Hill was doing the Barna field uh well uh and it was a disaster and and they're a great company and they drew a lot of water and I have
friends that work there and and but Florida is not the same everywhere and and and so that's why I asked that question. I learned the hard way at work out of the cake the same thing. I had the same issues. >> Okay. So, I just want to make sure that
we just don't do an addition to the work order. >> Well, I think that's what you have to remember. This is the feasibility part of it. >> Even a feasibility even a feasibility. So many hours >> that I'm going to charge you no matter what. There'll be hours to charge to something. and and I don't want to I
don't want to have the injection portion be the stepchild of this work order because it's hard. Okay, that that's my concern. I think it's important enough that maybe
a little digging into the A&E world of water in the state uh and and see who's doing who who's doing something like that or has done something like that, you know. >> You can make that recommendation to council too is to just move forward with
the bracket water side and then look at a separate task order to do the the wellfield recharge injection. look at it too. To me, I would recommend I heard I heard what you said and and I don't want to be in
>> stopping progress. Okay. But also, I would like to have someone who has some idea of what putting reclaimed water in an injection area to a piece of an aquifer, >> you know, what it does.
>> I would make a recommendation. we can ask our consultant to provide history of the other projects they've done, other cities that they've done um specific to task orders like this. They're a fairly they're a very large firm. Um so I
expect them to have a list of experience that then we could supply. >> Is it BFA engine environmental consultants doing the study? >> No, this is CDM Smith. >> We don't currently have a contract with BFA. the city doesn't. >> They're the ones that did the study and
analysis of the hydraology in our area that that caused us to scope out Wellfield 4. So it just seems like they already got a lot of that data. >> Yeah. So the when the city redid the
water resources consultants probably been almost a decade ago, the choice was made to move to larger firms that have more diverse ability than specialized firms. So these larger firms will bring in the hydro geologists to supplement their staff when they need to. But the reason why we end up with the ACOMs and
the CDM Smiths right Pierce is that beyond the hydro geology those firms had the ability to literally do the plant. >> Yeah. >> You know where BF BFA was a very specific very specialized group that could not do general civil work. So these groups can bring them in while
they can handle the heavy lift of what a pump looks like. >> Yeah. Um and just one suggestion on the recharge thought. We can always ask consultant to kind of come with the gamut of how to recharge the two well fields we have and bringing because reclaim above ground is also an option.
We have reclaim in area three already and that was one of the concepts we had staffwise was running that into the wellfield using it at surface level as exfiltration trenching into our system. Understanding it does burn water resources that are being used by our residents because they do use it for irrigation offsets. But that is an
option we would have and letting them look at storm water reclaim whatever they can get their hands on to bring to that air that well filled area and put it into the sand ridge and see what they can do with it whether it be injectable non- injectable because a lot of that's going to fall back to cost and service times. So
>> I'm just thinking of that how much what's the flow out of a 5ft diameter pipe? What's the flow rate you can get out of a 5 foot day? I mean, that's what's coming out of the John Street that's dumping our wetlands right now. You talk about water going into the
ground. I mean, there's a 5ft diameter pipe that's flowing to this day and it's not raining and it's still flowing in the dry season. When we're in a drought, you want water to put in the ground, there it is. We just have to redirect it. There's a lot of it. That's why I'm
asking 5 foot diameter pipe. What's the flow rate? I mean, there's there's got to be >> 1200 gallons a minute, I would guess. >> 100,200 >> 1,200 >> depending on the slope >> per minute. >> Guestimate. Yeah, >> that's a lot of water.
>> Yeah, there's a lot of variables in that, but that would, you know, scaling up from a smaller pipe. I think that's probably >> Yeah, I think in that scenario, the challenge is the pump station that pumps it to there, you won't be able to use a five foot diameter pipe and it'll be under pressure. >> That's 72 million gallons an hour. >> Yeah. And I don't even have a limb to
look to sketch that on. That's that's tremendous amount of water that we're wasting is what I'm getting at. We need to recover. We need to re we I'm going to be asking the same of the space center. I think we should be doing the same of our city. So,
um, member Miller, >> um, yeah, I would make a motion to recommend to council that they go forward with the brackish water study, but also to include, uh, a look into the aquifer storage and recovery >> study. Yes,
>> study. >> Yes, study. Yes, correct. I'll second that. >> You can second that. You want to second that? >> I will second that. >> Hector seconds that. Any other discussion? Wow, silent. Okay, let's have a roll call vote on this one. This is
important. >> Member Bett. >> Yes. >> Member Delgado. >> Okay. Before I vote, are you sure you understand uh what the motion is? >> Um the motion was to recommend the council to move forward with a brackish
water study while also looking at an a an ASR study. Do you want to add a more generic Wellfield recharge to that or just ASR? >> Yes. >> Okay, >> that's what I thought. >> Thank you. >> Uh, I'm good. Yes.
>> I believe that would have to be made as a new motion rather than modifying the current motion mid vote. >> Chairman, >> I I can be seconded. All you have to do is withdraw the second. You are in the driver's seat, my friend. If you withdraw the second, then that
gives the motion maker the chance to >> I just wanted to make sure that the car was parallel parked within the lines. >> I I get I get you. I I >> That's all that I was trying to do. I was >> I was going to recommend it to council. Anyways, >> I was watching staff and and I was going is that clear enough? That's all I just
wanted to make sure it was clear. I don't think >> this withdraw your second. >> I'll withdraw my second. >> Okay. And then we'll restate the motion. I I will modify my motion to include please help me with the verbiage
>> uh wellfield recharge >> to include ASR study and wellfield recharge. >> Yes. And the second is >> I can rese. >> You can rese Okay. Can we just start the voting process all over again or is
there any more discussion? >> Let's start the voting all over again. Member Berdett, >> yes. >> Member Delgado, >> yes. >> Member Nico, >> yes. >> Member Tucker, >> yes. >> Vice Chairwoman Thompson, >> yes. >> Member Miller, >> yes. >> Chairman Mek,
>> yes. Yay. Good. >> Go forth and conquer. Get us some water. >> Thank you all for the work on this. >> Thank you for your work. >> On to uh old stuff. back to wetlands
where we can capture more storm water. >> Are you going to take any of them tomorrow with the eels the selection management committee? You want to invite somebody? >> Jason's >> Well, maybe Sandra or >> someone from staff.
>> Sandra. >> Sandra. Did you want did you >> did you want to be included in the um environmentally endangered land selection and management committee tour tomorrow or >> well we're we're we're meeting it's a crossroads at 9:30 and if you wanted to
come talk to them that would probably be a good time >> if my schedule is very rough but let me find my phone. >> Yeah. And and and Lily, you're invited, too. >> I feel your pain. Yes, absolutely, Lily,
you're invited, too, if you like. >> 9:30. >> 9:30. And you're meeting at Dixie. >> So, I I was going to comment on this later during the member reports, but if you'd like, I'll I'll say something now while while we're here. >> Um, you know, we we had a meeting this morning for SMC. Unfortunately, we did
not have a uh quorum, so weren't able to take any actions, but um we did discuss a little more of the wetland area and that um as we go out there and look around, I think from a uh I guess I would say a strategic point of view for the SMC
folks, we need to be focused more on the value of that wetland as endangered land vice any kind of redirection of storm water. like talking about its potential for absorbing and that kind of thing. But I think one of the things that
scared some of the members uh at that last meeting was talk about talk about the hydraology and about potentially changing the flows and where those flows are going. I think that really spooked a few of the members. So I I I hope that tomorrow we will we'll be able to focus
more on, you know, if we can find any endangered species out there. That's that's a huge thing. Um, and just really focusing on the wetland itself as an endangered land, right? >> I I I think is important for getting SMC
support on that land. >> Excellent. >> Are you going on private property? >> Do we? >> Yes, we have. We have SMC has access permission. All this is being done through a a willing seller application um for the 405 MAR property. So we have
uh access permission and all that. Absolutely. >> Do you want me there? Okay, I will I will move some meetings and make it work. >> Thank you. >> Uh real quick before you go, it was uh offered to get the body of work or the projects that the engineering firm has
done in the past. Is that something we could have to take a look at? >> Say that again. >> The uh the projects that the engineering firm has done in the past in different areas, different >> Can we get a a >> I'm confused. the the engineering firm who's doing the feasibility project.
>> Oh, what Ashley was saying about the resumes and stuff. Yes. Yes, we >> Yeah, if we could just get that information, I'd like to look. >> Yep. Thank you. >> No problem. >> Okay. >> Wetland. >> Almost. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
>> All right. On to wetlands. Come on up, Mary. Thank you for joining us tonight. No, it's not. >> It's not. That's >> And what we're talking about is doubling Yeah, I would have done two. I would
have gone and done the whole thing and then send it to council. >> All right, let me get back to the agenda here. Should we take an intermission or are should we take an intermission because we have people online. >> Sure.
>> Okay. Why don't we take a five minute break and then we'll come back when we get ourselves together. Thank you. Okay. Um, >> we got to wait for the guy in the recording studio. We're still in recess. There we are. All right. Now that we're back,
>> welcome, Mary. >> You have the floor, my dear. We um are changing a little bit of the order uh because of some of the comments uh Jason just made because we would like this to be a timely discussion.
Turns out it is quite the timely discussion. Um, I'd like to bring to your attention um something we discussed last time and did not finish because we did not have the information
and we were trying to uh improve strategy 1.16.2.2 too. And it has to do uh with the use of conservation land
um for scrubj in particular, possibly scrub jay relocation and for gopher tortoises. And that historically has been part of the language um ever since I've known the language.
So you can see on this paper um and he put it on the screen. Um and there's >> Yeah, we'll see if we can get it up there. Yes. Okay. Um
for strategy 1.16.2.2, Two, when conservation land use is present on a site, a property owner shall submit a preliminary environmental assessment, including a wetland delineation when wetlands are present prior to any f
future development. Well, we know that's already part of the language. So, um, we're trying to avoid, you know, saying the same thing over and over. So, that will probably be deleted.
Now, what to do about this? Because I remember, you know, when Titusville was just absolutely full of scrub jays. I mean, as a matter of fact, I I worked on Gryom
while while um in that industrial park off Gryom um you know, while the building I was working in had a asbestous removal. every every morning I come into that building and and I see scrub jays and now
you know I'm just wondering how many are in the city um and the same goes for the gopher tortoise. Now I know that there are requirements FWC has for the gopher tortoises but we got to get a
handle on this thing and we need more information. So if between now and the next meeting, if anybody has a chance to uh find out any information on whether
or not there are appropriate sites for scrub jays, whether there are scrub jays here within the city limits, or what really um you know is important to me is
it appears that with all the launches at the Cape, the scrubj population, uh there's two two um two meta populations there um are going to be declining. You know, it's just all the
loud noises and the uh I know I if you have a disagreement, please speak up after, but it just seems like we need to be prepared to relocate scrub jays, which
has been successful, definitely has been successful between Crook Jank and Malibar uh Scrub and also um you know other other sites as well. So,
um we want to know um what the city is prepared to do about these list species. These are the main list of species that I can think of
um that are applicable to Tottisville. And um the last sentence says well first it says that the um property owner shall submit an environmental
study which confirms the presence and potential locations of state and or federal list listed wildlife species. If the study identifies a location or locations on the site suit for suitable
habitat for preservation and these areas are accepted by the permitting agencies as preservation for the identified species then the city shall amend the conservation land use to include these areas. So it's not just
wetlands but in some cases it can uh be the habitat for the listed species. So we talked about that the last time and now um does if anybody has any comments on
that we'll stop and >> Mary Mary I do. Uh every year we have couple thousand people that come down in this city to count birds. Uh and they keep records.
Aren't those records available from that association that does this? >> There there's a there's actually a number of different ways. I I made myself a little note. Um, eels. I I don't believe eels directly tracks like scrub jays, but I know that we have
people we work with. Um, I saw a comment in the minutes about the Bvard Zoo. I know they've got a program for it. There's a gentleman at UCF whose name I cannot remember for the life of me, but he's been to a few SMC meets specifically to talk about scrub jays. He does scrub J relocations and some of
that kind of stuff. So, um I'm going to send Mike an email and then we can also ask him about this tomorrow. You know, just uh what the best source would be for the the scrub jays in particular because that's a that's a huge part of the eels uh mandate is scrubj
protection. So, um I'm confident we can get more information from Mike and Eels. >> Comment Thompson. So, um I wish the wetlands had more scrub habitat around them, but they
don't. I mean, they just don't. However, they are excellent for um wildlife corridor. You know, when you look at look at the map and you see that string of wetlands, it goes all the way from north of Mims all the way down to Port St. John. It's a really important
wildlife corridor. So, I'll talk about that tomorrow. But um our our um well fields down on Barna Avenue, that is ideal scrub j habitat. It's overgrown. >> It needs to be managed, but that could
be a really good area for scrub js. >> That could become a scrub j mitigation bank then. >> Yeah. And and you know there there is a lot of talk about moving jays off the space center. They're talking about
moving them to the Lake Whales Ridge, which would really be a shame. You know, they're they're we should not allow them to take our Brevar County Jays and move them over, you know, to to other counties. We've got we've got property
in North Bard. It's not inside Titusville, but there's some massive eel properties in the north end of the county that >> Scotsmore Flatwoods Flatwoods for one. >> Yeah. that um that could support jays. >> The the only place kind of within the
city that I I know there is a scrub jay population is Fox Lake. The Fox Lake preserve has um I'm not sure how big it is right now, but there has been a population out there. There used to be some diceandra because when we had the scrubj festival
in 2002 I remember Paul Smallser uh transport you know he took people over to Daiserandra you know and of course he's very interested in the uh the the Daarandra mint there which is beautiful
>> there very well may be the chips I've made out there I haven't seen any personally but it's again it just like the field it It is good uh environment form out there. So yeah. >> Yeah. If >> like I said, we'll we can talk to Mike and we can get a a a solid
>> Well, it's about time the city, you know, really step to the plate with this kind of stuff. Um because you're really, you know, there's so much potential for
nature in Titusville. We just and we need to be a contributing um partner with the eel program and like you know the Fox Lake and uh uh
I know Scotsmore Flatwoods is um you know further north but let's see what we can find out and what what um maybe the city will be motivated to do because now what has what happens is
according to the natural resource plan which um Lily is pretty um you know she's responsible for it um one of our key objectives in doing this update
is to uh improve the language on acquisition of wetlands. Now what happens is if you'll look at the conservation element which we're going
to look at tonight and discuss the place in the comprehensive plan that um acquisition of uh environmental land is discussed is the conservation element and it is
objective one and it Turns out that objective one focuses on listed species and even this is very old language in the conservation element right now.
Uh even when the update for the 2040 plan, which went nowhere for reasons totally um unrelated to the environmental language, um which start I guess they started
working on that in two 2018 2019. Um even at that time when the 2040 and when the when the to 2040 plan was in the works and when it was finalized
still the only um acquisition that was discussed had to do basically with listed species. Now there was some you know minor reference to environmentally endangered land. We need to change that.
If we're going to um include the wetlands, we need to include the wetlands and include not only partnering with the state, but they never discuss partnering with Bvard County.
And it's it's time to look at that possibility and uh you know see what we can what we can do um to um
work hand inand with the EL program to the extent that it's appropriate. So that's what we're going to look at right now. Okay. >> Okay. And that is this document which
you all have. Um and uh he should have it back there. >> One quick um point of order first, Mary, on on this one that you handed out that we just did the 1162.2. There's a typo. >> Yeah, I saw it. >> You found it on the bottom.
>> The third line from the end. It should be R and it says AE. >> That's not my typo, by the way. >> Okay. That's um >> well we it's it's going to have to be fixed. >> All right, carry on. Um thank you. >> Okay,
so we're just going to go through this since um you know, you'll have a chance to think about it, possibly discuss it, and you'll see, you know, the objective 1.1.
And I'm going to make a suggestion that you um add some words about including large wetland systems. You can read that >> critical habitat stuff is I have no idea
what the city exactly means by critical habitat that that's a legal term you know used by fish and wild service you know for the endangered species you know the US fish and wildlife service is supposed to um you know designate for
these listed species the critical habitat Um, and it seems like um I don't see any critical habitat in Taisville. >> Well, maybe we just have
>> maybe and there's no critical habitat designated for a scrub j as far as I know. I mean the it have to be specific habitat and I don't think they've ever done it. Fish and Wildlife has dragged their feet on
uh you know providing this kind of information. So I don't I mean critical habitat what does this mean in this document? So I just went with habitat.
Is that something we could request to get more information on and what the city thinks critical habitat is >> and what that list is? >> Right. So, I was looking into leading up to this meeting the previous question you all had about how the city
applies uh protection for endangered species and what that environmental assessments look like and things like that. that from what I can find, there are sections of our code that trigger the need to submit an environmental
assessment on upon a site plan review. Um, but in terms of defaulting to who's in charge of actually enforcing, protecting, and tracking those things, it it's just whatever Fish and Wildlife has. So, it's we don't have our own staff of
biologists or anyone who can go out there and surveyors who can, you know, work to that. >> We could we I I've talked with natural resources of Bvard County before about this back in 2017 and they're willing to contract that out for this to the city.
They do that themselves in their own count in their own department. And from what I understand, if we get an environmental assessment that does have say like a gopher tortoise or something, we'll partner with them for relocation and things like that, right? If that's what Yeah. >> So maybe we can partner with them to do
the assessments then. >> Well, from what I can tell, we are technically supposed to get an assessment for all the site plans. So >> I think that's a responsibility of the applicant, >> right? >> Yeah, that's my understanding. It's up to the applicant to decide whether or
not he has endangered species and therefore it'll notify you as to whether or not he wants to have an assessment done. >> See, that's not the way it should be. >> We need to look at it the other way around. When we get the site plan, we can look it up in GIS. We can look at the habitat and the soil types, and if
those two cross match to the type of of endangered species, then we know that we should have a a survey done. Period. The other part of that is publicly noting endangered species and the legality around sharing like where all of these spots are if those need to be redacted
if it puts them at risk of people knowing those sorts of things. I think that was a part I didn't get that answer or that to that question yet either. So I don't know if it's something >> something's not right here. There there has to be a litmus test that we can use
that's black and white that defines whether or not a survey needs to be done. >> No, it does every time. That's from what I asked staff. >> But it's a question of who who who pulls the cord? Is it is it the fox guarding the chicken house that's pulling the
cord and telling you, "Yes, I've got chickens here." or or is it somebody else that's a third party or a reputable person like the county saying yes or no this is we will go and look and investigate. It's so that the the applicant applies
and if they don't provide an environmental assessment on that first site, plants of middle, we'll ask for one and it has to be it's usually someone like a credible contractor that's putting their um like engineers
have to put their on the line basically. So, but what we do with that that's the part if you're talking about publicly sharing that information. No, no, I wasn't concerned so much about publicly sharing it. I was concerned with making use of that information that is public,
the GIS data set, and the fact that we know what the soil types and the habitat are that are on every parcel in this county. So, we should very easily be able to look at that soil habitat type and make a very simple cross reference
list of endangered species that are on that soil and habitat type. And if they are there, if I mean, if that's what's on that property, if that soil and habitat is on that property, then my gosh, we should have an environmental assessment whether the property
developer decides to do one or not is what I'm saying. >> Well, what I'm I'm confused about is when it reads what triggers an environmental assessment, but when I talk to staff, they all like all the site plants have environmental
assessments. So I don't know what this means. That's what I'm saying. >> I see. >> Yeah. Hector. >> Well, that of course that >> Mary may ask a question please before you go on. >> Uh something bothered me. Fish and
wildlife has records of areas. So for this area, the guys that are over Maxwell Bridge, that's the the district that they work out of and they're
supposed to know every critter and everything that's in the district. It is not like we're not, oh, here's a boundary we sit, so we're not going to cross it. So why don't we why can't we get that
data from them and and look at the the totality of our area within that and then we can we can see what data they have for uh endangered species or critical species in that
area. >> I I think that >> that's something they do that's >> Yeah. No. And and we heavily like if that's what's on the environmental assessment, we'll work with the fish and wildlife and Bvard County and all of that. I thought the question was originally posed of what triggers an
environmental assessment. Based on how this is written, it kind of makes the assumption that not everything does. And when I looked at specifically site plan reviews, they do. >> So maybe there's something I'm not I don't know. No, I was just going back on
on the statements that were made that we don't know where the scrub jays are. We know we don't know where the lizards are. We don't know where the other birds are. Somebody knows. And I would think that fish and wildlife
will probably have a good overview of where these areas are. I I I don't think it should be very hard to find out. Uh the Ottabon Society probably knows. uh >> and and I think you know I understand your position but also this information
would be really useful for future developers who do come to this area and that would save them a lot of headache, time, money and to have to go through that process uh if they had that information available to them before. Um
I know it's difficult to create boundaries and do those assessments specific to different sites, but we're talking about like areas of the city. I would think that would be able to lend that kind of information for anybody who wants to access it. >> Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking
about. I mean, they they must have aerials and and you have areas now. Well, half a lot falls in that and and the other half doesn't. Uh that's a lower level at planning. Planning can take care of that. Yes.
But for let me take a look at where all these corridors are. >> I wonder if they're in the GIS data set, too. >> Okay. And and that way you can start defining your large uh wetland
areas with large bird or you know other areas that that need uh some attention also. And you can start overlaying that and then get a picture so that when someone comes in for a
permit, you can have an idea at that board of the criticality or not of any species or whatever whoever lives there uh in terms of the animals and and all that. So that's where I was getting at. The data
has got to be available with as much data as we collect in the state. Uh I just can't phantom the fact that a lot of the societies don't have it. I don't think we have asked. That's all. Well, in Bvard
County, um the scientists at the Cape, um particular Dave Bronninger, um and there was a uh quite a few of his um fellow scientists, uh and Paul
Smallzer was the um the um botonist. um >> you know um and he used to do studies um of the entire county and and then eels
um had purchased quite a few properties um in the south the um scruby population on the beach was extrapated too sad. Um and um
you know the the last study I had was just of the ones at the Cape. So I don't know maybe Jason you you know you you can find out if there are recent studies by that um team because I suspect they
are going that study is forwarded to US Fish and Wildlife Service. Like you said, somebody's got to have the information. >> Yeah, like I said, I'll I'll talk to Mike about trying to find that. I was just I'm I'm in my eels GIS maps right
now trying to see what they have. And there's a thing for scrub js, but it's not showing anything. So, I don't know if it's just not something that has been updated on this particular GIS map or what. But >> right >> um the the one thing that is is kind of relevant to this is it it does show um
EEL's proposed properties. So the areas that the EELS program wants to buy. Um and there are a few places within Titusville. Honestly, within the city itself, there's not very much. Um I'm looking at a couple of
like literally just a couple of spots. Well, >> but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the only spots that are >> are important. That's just what Eels has put on their list. >> Is that is that for the for the scrub J only? Because >> No, that's just that's in general it it just shows all the properties that are
on the EEL's list of uh properties they would like to try and acquire, but and I mean it's an exhaustive list, >> right? And I think what we're trying to do is see um you know if since we see the value of these large
wetlands with the accompanying buffer or land surrounding them, you know, which are necessary um to um create the whole ecosystem.
Um, we're trying to uh see that we have the language in the city of Titusville to support this type of program. And that's what's in this objective one. And so I think we'll go on
um with um this to see if we can just get through a cursory discussion of this. Um, and you can think about it in between now and the next meeting, but you know,
policy 1.1.1 says that um they're supposed to identify state and federal listed wildlife species habitat. Potential wildlife habitat and sites for listed species shall be depicted on a map by
2012 which will indicate the presence of state and federal listed wildlife species as per data provided by fish and wildlife um and um oh that's FWC and um US fish
and wildlife um I don't know if that list was ever done. I doubt it because strange thing I compared this language the 2040 plan
those first two um policies are not included in the 2040 plan. So I think they slip slipped through the cracks. >> Oops. >> Because the 2040 plan actually is very good on listed species.
Um I mean I certainly have said enough things about the wetlands in the 2040 plan but that's a different matter. The listed species language is good and then
you know it said the city in 1.1.2 Two, the city shall work with other agencies having jurisdiction to conduct an inventory of state and federal listed wildlife species habitat remaining within their b within its
boundaries. Well, I don't think the city ever I mean I could be wrong but to me I have not heard of that within the city of Tisville. So, we should I should we
should ask as a tec to have a copy of that report. >> Well, or or Jason should find out what's going on. >> Well, Jason's not part of the city. He's part of eels. >> Yeah, but see, he lives in the city.
>> Well, so do I. >> But but okay, but you don't want >> The point is that supposed to be done. >> You don't want to embarrass staff. you want to get along with them. And so you say, "Uh, do you know of a um a um
inventory of potential wildlife habits and sites of listed species?" Um perhaps depicted on a map. Do you know that instead of did you ever do this? You know, it's just a matter of it. From
what I was also told, the comprehensive plan is a list of like goals and targets and right >> aspirations for the city for us to achieve, but not necessarily means we've accomplished by any means the exhaustive list of everything in there.
>> It's just our our vision pretty much. >> Well, I would agree with that if it was an objective or a goal, but this is policy. >> Talking about a comprehensive plan, right? >> I am. We're talking about comprehensive plan and the natural resources
objective. Well, >> one point. >> Fact of the matter is, Michael, you know, I know you've been around for a very long time in the environmental advocacy role and uh you know how many
policies different uh local jurisdictions have basically ignored or pushed out that date multiple times or then just gotten rid of that date. But we're here working on this comprehensive plan, our comprehensive plan, the
conservation element of our comprehensive plan. >> So, let's get on with policy 1 point 1.3. >> We're going to just skip over to 1.2 for >> Oh, that's the same thing. I mean, has this been done? But 1.1.3
this is about this we have to define these environmentally endangered lands as best we can and right now um they are minimizing the wetlands. >> Yes.
And to top it off, they don't even mention working with Bvard County. Well, that needs to change. You can see that in policy 1.1.3
I do suggest that we add with that you know will cooperate with the state and with Breard County in acquiring and conserving environmentally endangered lands to be preserved through
acquisition and or regulations. I mean that needs to be in there. >> I agree. And then for strategy 1.1.3.1 now it says the city shall develop a procedure to identify such lands.
Review and evaluation shall at a minimum shall include in a minimum the following. Okay. First thing is that state and federal listed wildlife and estuary life species habitat.
That's the focus of this um objective one >> and estuary. Good. >> Now what it said about wetlands, it said it it did say wetlands, natural lakes, lagoon, and rivers.
But I suggest, and if anybody's got any other wording, my suggestion is that we expand the stuff about the wetlands and the wetland systems and the land around those wetlands. If
you you can think about, you know, what language you'd like to put there, but and then just make natural lakes, lagoon, and river is a separate one. But it just seems like um to have the city get
into focus, you know, the um environmentally endangered land that they have um in terms of
saving them. And you know for a long time the object was you know just I mean let's face it development you know and it's not like these are just all
what you want is developable commodities. You want some the best saved because Tidyville is supposed to be the gateway to nutrient space, >> right? >> I have an issue with um sufficient
buffer. >> I'm not sure how to define that. >> Anybody can >> can we >> Well, yeah. Same thing with a large wetland. What what what's large? >> This is to totally revisable.
The I'm just throwing the idea out. >> Would adding language like and respective watersheds. >> Yes. >> Oh, that's good. >> That would be very good to add there. We somewhere we said something about not disturbing the flow, the hydraologic
flow, which unfortunately seems to get done anyway. Um, I wonder if we can strengthen that too and make sure that we're not disrupting the underground flow and hydrarology.
See, you know, between now and next meeting, you know, you can take a look at this because I know some of you have asked for some homework. >> Mhm. >> And, you know, I I struggled with this. I I didn't think buffer was exactly
right either, you know, and it's the the it's that watershed on the property. Um >> but Mary is when we speak in terms of assume sizes, we each have a different
assumption of what large is. >> What >> it's a human thing. Every human has a different assumption of what large is, what small is, >> right? >> Uh a different version of sufficient. >> Exactly.
>> Okay. sufficient may be a number between one and 10. >> Uh the same thing for large. So we're you leave it it it leaves open to a lot of discussion and interpretation >> fuzziness.
>> Yeah. And in we know we want the ones that are greater than five acres five acres in gold. >> We know I mean it could put like I thought of putting that in fact I did you know and I don't know if it'd be better or worse.
>> We we need to anchor along those lines perhaps because we go >> okay >> one house and five acre. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Five acres is the cut off. We need to follow that that anchor if we're going to if we're going to use words
like that. >> Okay. >> That way and that way we get away from the large and know it's been defined already. Five acres. >> Right. Right. That would be a good break point I think for difference between large and small. >> You guys agree with that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Surprisingly even though you brought it
up >> I'm measurements. >> Yes. Of course, >> I'm your number guy. >> Indeed. >> Okay. >> So, we can do five acre wetlands, >> wetland systems. >> I'll we'll figure out something before next next time. We just wanted to get a
little overview of this. >> What's a wetland protection area? >> What do you mean a wetland protection? >> You have in item six. Now, was >> a wellhead. Sorry. This is yeah this >> you know being dyslexic is really a
wonderful advantage. >> Now it turns out in number seven it says critical habitats identified by the east coast Florida >> regional >> regional planning council. It's the east central Florida regional
planning council but they Lily and I were talking and uh we don't think they do that anymore. >> No they don't. So all there's three references in here to the regional planning council and >> it's going to have to go. >> Who can we get to do this? Fish and
wildlife. >> No. See, that's the thing about critical habitats. If if um do we want do we want that definition or I mean is there a glossery with the
city's definition or >> in the back? Yeah. Do does it have a >> I don't know if it has that >> Yeah. words that aren't in the definition. >> Maybe that's something you could check on Lily
if there's a definition of critical habitat. Um because >> are we talking about a definition within the comprehensive plan or >> Okay. Yeah, >> because I'm looking at at the the full
PDF and I don't see anything like uh a >> glossery. >> So, critical habitat isn't defined in state statute, but our land development regulations define it as threatened or endangered species open parenthesis stated function closed parenthesis. So,
I'm not entirely sure what that means, but we do have a definition in the LDRs. >> That's below this level, though. It might worth be worthwhile to have a glossery added to the comp plan so that we have our definitions at this level.
just define it in this >> if we can define it if we can >> or we can define it and as as we >> because it doesn't the way the way this is the way this thing is written it doesn't seem to match you know the federal definition you know
uh critical habitat from what I know about because I mean you have to go through all this um you know study and it's it's just really something uh fish and wildlife of voids. And of course now with the
um Endangered Species Act um being um threatened, let's put it that way. Um I don't think it's going to happen at
the moment but but anyway um in the habitat corridors that was something that has been that has been studied by the state though >> we know that because you know that closing the gaps document
over the years and uh in fact I think thousand friends has um a webinar either coming up or they just had one about that um thing, but >> the East Central Florida Greenway, as a matter of fact, is what they were
talking about. Thousand friends, that might be something. >> Did you go Did you go to that? >> I I've been to it before. I They've done it a couple of times now, and I' I've watched at least two of them, but that might be something worth throwing in here on line seven. >> See, it is the habit like number seven,
critical habitat. >> Yeah, it just says habitat quarters, but they've actually got a name for it. They call it the East Central Florida Greenway and that's part of our wetland system is is is a piece of that connects us all the way up through
Scotsmore and and north and then south to you know as well. So that might be >> and is that >> something to write into here? >> Yeah. Um who
Okay. So that is that the planning council I believe for >> we'll have to check on that. The East Central Florida greenway, >> right? >> Yeah, >> that's what it's called, is it? >> There's an east and a west. There's two
of them down each side of the state. >> Yeah, >> it is a wildlife. >> There's a Florida East Coast greenway. >> East Coast greenway. That's it. Central Florida, >> East Coast, there's a 417 greenway. All kinds of >> That's That's less green and more
concrete. >> I'm pretty sure it's a big switch. >> Oh, this is a trail though. This is the >> Yeah, >> this is like part of the trail system. That's That's Yeah, that's a bike trail.
>> Um >> East Central Regional Rail Trail. I don't see anything that looks like it's all it's all rail trails and different different trails. There's no
like um >> there's the Florida Wildlife Corridor. That's that's that's yeah >> is that what you're talking >> Florida greenways initiative started in 1991 >> but I think >> greenways and trails now is what
>> that's it greenways and trails. Oops. Look up front of Florida here. If I can get it to load. >> Right. >> Well, there was that remember that document closing the gaps that you know
u we heard a bunch about you know back in the 2000 um time frame. Um and then you know it seemed like you'd hear another oh closing the gaps you know
all these developments took place and I know through um North Bard >> you know part of this >> you found it too >> did you find something? We found the map. The Florida wildlife
>> Florida wildlife corridor map. >> Okay. That is it. Go through Farmington then too. Yes. Yes. Okay. That's what it is. It's a Florida wildlife corridor. >> Maybe that's what we should say. >> Yes. >> Critical habitats and Florida >> wildlife corridor. >> Wildlife corridor.
>> As Yes. Yes. >> Okay. So, on to the next page. Um so um this is a this is um
a cleanup thing which the 24 plan clean on 1.1.5 it says the owner developer of development in the city of Titus. So, it should be property and they cleaned that up in the 2040 plan, but like I say,
2040 plan went nowhere. Um, it had nothing to do with environmental language. So now um let's take a look at 1.1.6.
Should this include what? Now this is the city's purchasing. As far as I know, they've never spent anything on purchasing um environmental land. Is that true? purchased I believe some waterfront >> some waterfront land they purch Oh
that's right they did didn't they >> yeah in 2007 we had the waterfront referee >> they had the water okay >> which we just just paid off last year I think >> okay so well >> we should do it again >> yeah
um in fact that was discussed in the inspire placemaking um thing you know you could >> in the natural resources it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's something we
could consider. You know, just making a little contribution wouldn't hurt, would it? Anyway, so it says the city shall purchase of environment economic, excuse me, the city shall purchase of economically feasible properties
identified as I got rid of critical habitat put as environmentally endangered lands >> could be identified by Bard County Eels. Um
well, you know, >> Titus selection and management committee is a little light on membership at the moment. >> I I don't disagree with that, but at the same time, I feel like an I don't think Eels is going to undertake like a
massive redesation of like their target properties and I feel like that might limit us a little bit if we only go with >> If their target properties happen to land within the city, poof, there's your answer. I guess I just don't want to limit us to only those. >> Of course. Oh, you mean inside the city
for the city's comprehensive plan. What else can we >> Oh, >> let's just let's just not push the EO. >> Yeah, >> we shouldn't push the EO program. They they are amazing.
>> Thank you. >> Seeing we're talking to the chair. >> I just want to hook on to the amazing and ride the bandwagon, you know. No, I mean I really feel that way and totally totally in favor of um okay so
>> um I moved first of all I got rid of the language about the >> right >> east central Florida regional planning council right um and then I moved
that selection criteria to Um you know it says that that greater weight should um on the selection of lands um you know for environmentally re environmental
reasons rather than uh public use and recreation and that that falls into line with yields um you know a referendum language which um basically says and I know it's been
uh rather hotly debated at times, but the environmental value of the lands EOS purchases and the city here, which is old language, they're they're
really interested in the environmental value rather than the uh uh recreational value which you would get in a park but this is talking about the
habitat. So I move that down to environmental strategy 1.1.6.2 to environmental value shall prioritize even what public use may be limited or
inappropriate. Because what happens is that sentence is too long because they have a very interesting um
se sentence at the end. It's nice and long. starts the following criteria shall be adhered to in the implementation of this policy. The protection of environmentally
endangered lands can be accomplished through acquisition, easements, land. I put land donation because, you know, there's lands that people own that
are conservation land and the city has uh let's put it this way, the city should look into land donations as a possible source. They shouldn't just reject it, for example, because they might have to
do a little work on the property until, for example, eels could get a hold of it. Or there may be some people who own some conservation
land, you know, with conservation land use who may own some property and, you know, may want to donate it at some point in time to the city. I
know that um in the city of Rock ledge um there was there was a property which was very valuable um which was donated um by a a friend of
mine when she moved um she um had the money to carry on her life and she wanted to do something good for the city. This was probably about
oh >> Eels just took a a donation of land uh about a month ago from a property owner that just said you know I want my land to be preserved and so they donated to Eels and it >> was fortunately part of an out parcel of other eels lands but yeah it definitely
does happen for sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It should say land donations to plural, not singular to match the rest of the sentence. >> Good catch. >> Okay, I'll put on it. >> And it says transfer development. Should
I say transfer of development rights? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And purchase of development rights. >> Purchase of de development rights. >> Transfer or purchase of development rights. >> That's a transfer.
per purchase of development. I just would put purchase of development rights and other planning tools. Whoever, you know, somebody thinks there's other planning tools, I'm sure there are. Let's um
keep all options open, right? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Before we leave this, would would mitigation fit in here? Oh, right. That's a good catch. >> That is a good catch. >> Mitigation is one thing. Mitigation
restoration is another. >> Well, you can define it >> perhaps >> to point it in the right direction. >> Right. >> We'll have to think about how we want to word this mitigation. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. But it's the
definite, you know, all those things down in Grantville carrier that you program is um you know all that mitigation, you know, that Zeke Nations did and over the years and
uh you know now now I mean we got John Shepard on the committee and you know he he's done some a big one I know of in Palm Bay and he he likes to work on So, you know, these people care.
>> Something I just want to point out as we kind of maybe think through mitigation in this section or also land donation as was discussed is that the purpose of this policy as written is for the purchase of property. So, those might need to go in a standalone section or a
strategy. But as far as >> purchasing property, land donation wouldn't qualify. The city can already accept land donations without that being in the comp plan. This policy is more about commanding the city where economically feasible to make purchases. >> Okay,
>> good catch. We'll figure out >> have to rework that. >> Deal with that. >> Mhm. >> Um >> could could it be as simple as changing that first part to say the sh the city shall acquire instead of purchase? Would
that >> I guess the distin I mean acquiring purchasing those are active undertakings by the city. Land donation is a is a acceptance from somebody else who's making the actual action. Mhm.
>> I mean, there could I don't know if it would fit in under this policy heading, but you you could come up with language stating if somebody offers to donate certain qualifications of land the city must accept if economically feasible or something along those lines. But right
now, the city has full discretion to accept any property that somebody wants to donate to it. >> Okay. But is it designated towards what they say? Like would they the city can accept it but then are they free to do with what they want with it or can
>> I the person donating the property could specify in the deed what they want the use to go to? Um if it's not specified then yeah the city can use it as it sees fits property owner. >> Yeah. Does I and I apologize if we're getting off topic here, but does that
does that go to city council? Like if there's a donation put up, does that go to city council for a vote? Does it go through anyone else or? >> Uh, it usually goes to council on consent agenda. We actually recently accepted a donation of land of property that is outside of the city boundaries,
but is in the uh Wellfield recharge area that I believe we're just going to leave vacant. >> Okay. Well, thanks for that information and we'll make sure we got it right. >> We'll check back.
>> Yep. >> Um, okay. So, let's see if we can um get some of the rest of this. Sure. >> In the next 10 minutes. >> Okay. Um, you know,
says, "Priority shall 1.1.6.2 priority shall be given to the acquisition of lands which are identified as environmentally endangered lands into those areas known to be important is habitat corridors and the movement of
wildlife and then you know I move that environmental value like be prioritized even where public use may be limited or inappropriate." Okay. So, the next one, I don't know what's going on. Um
um this policy says that where acquisition of property is not fiscally possible, any public or private use of land greater than 3 acres. Um shall require a
management plan to minimize state harm to state and federal listed wildlife species and its habitat. I don't know if that's true. I mean, do they require management plan?
>> How that's been applied? >> Yeah. Do you know how that's been appli? I mean, can you check? >> Yeah, Lily can check. That'll be good. And then um
got rid of in the next one that's you know the agencies that recognized species is listed and I got rid of regen planning council and then um you know
1.1.8 8. I think that's pretty reasonable. Um, and the next question I had was on 1.1.8.3.
It's a strategy strategy 1.1.8 8.3 The city shall cooperate with these agencies in locating potential introduction sites for designated species. It said on existing conservation lands
or I mean what about private lands? I mean do we want to limit locating introduction sites for scrub jays
um to existing conservation lands, maybe future conservation lands, or should we include private lands? >> That's my question. >> Do we even have say over that if it's if it's a if it's a listed species? I mean,
I know that there are instances where private lands have been approved by you know, FWC or Fish, US Fish and Wildlife to take an endangered species, but I I kind of feel like that's outside
our scope as a city. >> It says the scope is that the city shall cooperate in locating potential introduction sites. >> Okay. >> Do you think that's is that what you meant? that that's outside
or is it just that where the sites are is out of our >> I mean I guess cooperating with those agencies that's that's kind of a nobrainer to me. I don't I just feel like the >> you stop
>> talking about the private lands like I I mean whether it's conservation land owned by the city or it's private lands within city limits >> with a conservation easement. >> Yeah. It It's still It's up to that agency where it's going to go. >> Maybe we should >> We're just cooperating with us.
>> Maybe we should put a period after species. >> That's what I did. >> Yeah, that's what I was just thinking. Like just >> say that we will cooperate with them, >> right? >> Which seems almost ridiculous to me that we have to say that, but
>> well, this is old this is very old language. Uh, and um I'm not sure what year it was done in, but um because it
>> Oh, but anyway, that's a good We'll just put a period and then >> pardon me. This is probably done a couple of decades ago back when we actually did have scrub jays on different places
around town. And >> you know, a lot of this is moot simply because >> we're so overdeveloped now. But we do need to f we do need to work on the possible introduction
um sites in case it's needed and >> we need to do what we can about the gopher tortoises. So >> like the Sylvester property for example, if if we could acquire that the uplands along the 95 area might be perfect scrub
J habitat >> as part of the coastal ridge still >> and it's of course it's got to be connected you know the properties have to be >> a certain siz territory.
And the last thing is is a typo in 1.1.10. The city shall protect existing natural reservations. They meant resources. So um
that's all I got and it's uh four minutes to go. >> So our homework is to review this. you can just think about this and uh if you get any information, we'll we'll welcome it at the next meeting.
Oh, and one more thing I wanted to say. Um, for those of you who weren't here the last time, um, you know, we had discussed whether um, in
for example Verona, the the reason why they did not retain the conservation land use designation was due to the annexation. And um I did research that and it wasn't
due to the annexation. It was due to something else. So the annexation is not the problem. But Michael brought that up and I thought it was very good question. >> We we have a technical word for that in engineering parliament. It's called shenanigans. >> Oh,
>> with a capital S. Yes. >> All right. Well, we definitely got some homework and some things to think about. I guess that brings us back to the agenda. If I can find it. Yeah, here it is. So, we're back to petitions and requests
from the public. Seeing none, I shall ask for member reports and start with the ladies first. >> Nothing. No report from member Tucker.
Um, no, I don't think I have one other than we're excited, really excited about the selection and management committee coming tomorrow. Um, been working on some videos for y'all. gonna have coffee
and donuts at the restaurant and look at some videos before. And we have the church bus, too. So, it it'll be fun. It' be interesting. >> That's great. >> Yeah. So, looking forward to that. >> Hector, no report.
>> The only report is that uh >> I was going to say >> Blue Origin is trying to launch a rocket and they have a test fire uh scheduled. It was scheduled for today. It did not take place. It's been moved. If it moves
to Saturday, then the launch will be next week. So, be on the lookout for the test firing. That's a smoke coming out and no rocket lifting. >> That will be that will be the right thing. Uh if it lifts, it's a problem.
>> And then next week, uh there'll be a launch schedule for Blue Origin. So, >> how much delage water do they use on a test like that? They they use they use less than
than Starship by magnitudes and a and a little more than a Falcon. And the reason is they use a table a laminer flow table environment uh from their trough where the fling bucket is and so a a lot of it just
splashes and then it comes down on that table. Right. But number-wise, I'm not sure. So, let me let me look that up and I'll get back with you on that because I don't want to give you a number. And >> that's right. Because then I'll publicize it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right.
>> I understand. So, anyway, be on the lookout for a launch next week for Blue Origin. >> Go ahead. >> I I forgot something. I'm sorry. I brought presents for you guys tonight. >> Oh, boy. >> So, it's the um IRL NEP annual report. So, yeah. >> Oh, boy.
>> So, have fun. And I have some for you guys, too. >> Excellent. >> Yeah. The Falcon 9 uses 764,146 gallons on a launch. And since they're permitted to do 120, they're permitted to do 84 million
gallons worth of portable water loss. >> Where' you come from? I know. I don't know where it's going to come from. >> Well, that's his sol that's always an engineer's design. Re-engineer it.
>> Member reports. >> Uh, yeah. So, I I talked a little bit about some SMC stuff earlier, but I've I've told myself I want to do a better job of being bringing back reports to you guys from our SMC meeting. So, a few other things. Um, one thing that I think uh is important for us is in regards to
the 405 MAR property that SMC is going to be touring tomorrow for SMC to really deeply consider that. One of the the stipulations that's been put in place by the committee is that we get willing seller applications from the PD North and South developers. Um it was
reported today that our uh acquisition folks with uh the Nature Conservancy, they have reached out to them and they have had conversations. Um they have not submitted a willing seller application yet, but they have in indicated a
potential interest. So if that were to happen, then basically that whole stretch of wetlands there along uh Singleton would be considered. So it it's much more desirable for for eels. We have that that contiguous area there.
So that's that's positive movement I think. Um hopefully we can get more going forward with that. Um we have also we are we're finally going forward with some acquisitions. Uh which I've been on that committee for almost three years now and this is the first time we've actually had the opportunity to buy some
property which is pretty exciting. Right now it's a couple small parcels, one up in Mims and one down uh near Malibar. But it's exciting that we're finally getting to move forward some of that stuff. And actually we're going to be having a special meeting, I believe, in the next week or two in order to get votes in on that before the next uh
county commission meeting because we didn't have a quorum today. But um yeah, so some exciting stuff. And also there's there's two other properties in Titusville that we are very much looking at. Uh it's the itilly property and I'm sorry I can't remember the name of
the second property but they're >> Medi Med >> yeah Mediland I think maybe. Yeah. So they're they're pretty much adjacent to or just to the north of the city marina and the boat manufacturing plant there. One of them, the Mainland property, actually also includes 10 acres of
lagoon bottom, which which was is a a very exciting prospect uh because that would give us the ability then to do things like seaggrass plantings or um other experimental things out there without having to go through quite as much permitting. So, um some really
exciting stuff happening with eels right now. So, like I said, I'm I'm going to do my best to to remember to bring some of that back to you guys. Um, but yeah, I'm really excited with with what's happening with the SMC right now. >> That's excellent. >> Yeah, that Mediland property that could be and I it
could also be an >> Italy. Okay. Could be could be a nice extension of the chain of lakes. >> Yes, >> because it's it's all it's all connected to the chain of lakes. >> Wow. Thanks. >> I don't have a anything to report
tonight. >> Okay. Member Pette. Nothing at this time. >> Okay. Well, I want to remind everybody about Earth Day Saturday um at the Enchanted Forest and there's going to be food and song and all kinds of events.
And um I guess we're not going to be doing face painting this year. So maybe next year when we do this, we can actually plan to have some kind of educational material that we can hand out to people, you know, particularly about flooding and storm water and what
we're doing on the TEC to help them live a better life. >> I was actually thinking today that it's kind of silly that Eels doesn't have an SMC tent there and that's something that I definitely want to try and do next year just to raise awareness about what our community >> and it's y'all's property. >> Yeah, totally. Get out. Get on that.
Good. Good deal. Okay, Lily. >> Yeah, that was actually going to be my question for the board as well if there was any sort of handouts or topics. We have a lot of action items in our sustainability action plan and I believe the natural resources plan about all the
just asking for us to do more outreach. You guys know we need um public support or just public awareness on a lot of stuff. So these opportunities if we want to maybe at some point on our future agenda talk about a strategy for outreach. Um I've been hearing like some
other cities they they kind of put on their own events similar to that of the Earth Day level and invite all the other environmental people out. So um >> we do a harvest festival in the fall as well. Right. >> Another opportunity that we could Yeah. >> Lot of opportunities for tees to come
out and um it's just for me knowing Yeah. what kind of handouts what what do you want to talk about? Maybe get a survey from people. Um how do you want them to engage or interact? There's I can tell you like our um recycling rates
are really flat. We could talk about you know when anything like that like what we want to work on basically. So maybe look through the actually the sustainability action plan. I will give be giving my annual uh update on that at the next council 5:30 meeting. At least
I'm scheduled to. So, as long as that doesn't change, it might be something worth considering where the gaps are, what we need the public's help with. Um sometimes we just need to ask. And then on your April 30th meeting, uh TEC
meeting, the consultant will be here for the urban forest management plan. Anyway, I'll have your one-on- ones. So, if you have any questions, um, they're going to give like a whole interactive presentation, everything. So, from what I've heard, but just think about maybe
what you want to talk and ask them, too. >> Is that the oneonone we all signed up for? >> Yep. The one-on- ones >> at the end of the month. >> Pardon? >> At the end of the month. >> Yeah. On the 30th. >> Okay. I think >> that sounds like a good future agenda
topic which is just a nice segue into the next item on the agenda. >> Yes. Yes, that would be one of them. And then um just wetlands as usual after that if that's >> Yeah, I definitely think we need to talk about um our our sustainability. I think we need to talk about storm water. I
think we need to talk about flooding and what we're doing, what what the city's doing to work on the flooding plan. You know, the fact that we got a storm water master plan that we're about to have approved by council um hopefully and that that's worth speaking to the public
about to reassure them to let them know that we're we're doing things that we're listening. >> So, I think we talked about it at at our meeting. if you can come up or maybe you guys can help, we can create a list of
priorities or projects that the TEC is working on that we can, you know, make the print large and make it bullets and we can tape it to our table at the Enchanted Forest. Yeah. >> So that if somebody comes up and says, "Well, what do you guys do anyway?" We
can look at that list that's taped to the table. It's like a cheat sheet. >> Yep. the but it would be really it would be really good to have that. >> Yeah. Certain I've seen some examples like certain cities that focus heavily on uh like managing their waste reduction. I'm looking at you because I
remember you were heavily involved but they would do demonstrations of um showing like a recycling bin and basically taking the whole front off of it and showing like what goes in it, how you're supposed to package it. It was very like eye drawing. I know you have
your horseshoe crabs and everything, but it really it was impactful like almost like a demonstration slash eye-catching art project would be crazy for us. I I already sent it to the Bvard County uh recycling coordinator. He's I believe looking at trying to get like a whole
trailer worth of outreach things, but that's only I mean trash is only one little section of the sustainability report. If you want to do flooding, we have those maps that we can bring out, right? Um, and talk about flood of risk. That's a huge thing. >> Y,
>> can you bring some of those big poster size maps? >> Yeah, like to forest. >> Yeah, I think I have the um 500 year annodation map. >> That's a good one. And and the other one that I really like is the um the topography one that has all the yellows
and oranges. Um trying to think of what >> I have a lot of maps in my office. it. Huh? Welcome to >> Talk about the elevation map. >> Yeah, the elevation map. That's really interesting. >> Have I brought that out before? I don't know if >> it they had it at the storm water meeting, you know, when we were out out
>> and there's the interactive one online, too. >> Yeah, >> which we can bring up or something. >> Okay. I Yeah, I'll look for it. >> I can send you a picture of it. >> Okay. >> I probably have. I can tell you flooding is a big deal around the city
>> and it's a it's something that is spoken freely in conversations because there seems to be in my opinion a lack of understanding where city boundaries are. >> Yes. >> Okay. And district one
uh flooding lamp lighter and those places over there. They're all in the county, but everybody thinks it's in Titusville because the way the news came out, >> it was flooding in Titusville. >> There was no definition. >> Yeah. Even near Titusville comes across
as Titusville. >> Okay. And and so I'll share with you that Yeah. I have friends that Well, what are you guys doing? >> And I have friends that live in district one and they're asking me what what were we doing? And I and I have to tell them, I'm sorry, you don't live in the city,
>> right? >> So, I have no idea what the county is doing to help you. >> I think it's an 800 million dollar shortfall. >> It's a big deal. So, we need to define, you know, the flooding is I think it's going to be questions we're going to get
>> more as the rainy season comes. >> We can speak on the the cities for sure. I'm not quite sure about the county. Um, >> no. Again, yeah, it's it's just a matter of how the news came out and and how people perceive and what they perceive
is that truth, not anything else. >> Okay. >> Any other topics for future agenda items while we're here? >> Okay. Hearing none, then I'll call the meeting adjourned. Thank you.