##VIDEO ID:GtefhqeCbuA## e e e hello this meeting of the plane Zoning for November 6 2024 will come to order can we stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the for which it stands na indivis withy andice for roll call please Lori chairman Richardson here Vice chairman Aton here secretary Grant here member Childs here member Gad member fa here member Moscoso here alternate member finer alternate member Rogers here well we do have a quorum and uh let's just stop and say that uh we had two members running for city council and Mak Moscoso was elected to city council speech and Chris Charles did a good job but he lost um when does Her resign to run law come into play so the resent to run law doesn't apply to this body and the two members who were running still continue to serve today and on November 26th Megan Moscoso will be sworn in as a city council member and so she's able to serve on the meeting tonight I don't know that we will have a second meeting in November for pnz we do um so we'll evaluate whether or not she'll be serving on that meeting or not um but she will be sworn in for City Council on the 26th we don't want to kick her out prematurely okay approval of the minutes of the meeting of October 2nd move to approve is presented motion made by Vice chairman Aton is there a second a second seconded by member Charles any discussion all in favor say I I I all opposed passes unanimously uh Chelsea would you read the Quasi additional confirmation procedures yes sir all persons who anticipate speaking on any public hearing item must fill out an oath card to be heard on that agenda item and sign the oath contained thereon these cards are located on the table near the entrance to the Council chamber or may be obtained from the recording secretary this meeting will be conducted in accordance to the procedures adopted in resolution number 24- 1997 those speaking in favor of a request will be heard first those opposed will be heard second and those who wish to make a public comment on the item will speak third the applicant may make a brief rebuttal if necessary a representative from either side for or against May cross-examine a witness anyone who speaks is considered a witness if you have photographs sketches or documents that you desire for the commission to consider they must be submitted into evidence and will be retained by the city please submit such exhibits to the recording secretary thank you okay thank you we have no old business new business item a uh excuse me petitions and request from the public pres you got a I got a cough drop in my mouth to make sure that I maintain my voice is there anyone from the public that wishes to speak okay Tony shaffo the historic Norwood house I'm here not only to congratulate Miss mcoo on her um step to counsel same place to sit probably just a different job and to mourn the loss to the Planning and Zoning of Miss mosa with her vast knowledge and her infinite interest and ability to dig deep and research and really explore the issue and the questions of the actual zoning and the comp plan which our new mayor tends to not know much about and I am very concerned from some comments that he made concerning the planning and zoning committee and I wonder if anyone else shares the concern that that he brought up the issue of um streamlining perhaps eliminating the Planning and Zoning as we get rid of nationally the education department and tear apart the health system and stuff so I just really worry about the Planning and Zoning because of my my homeownership in what is being referred I refer to as West Titusville and the gentrification that is coming to that and without the protection of planning and zoning and people like Miss moso and her knowledge and her interest and her depth of research I get very afraid and so that's my comment thank you for letting me speak stay there for a second um yes I've heard that same thing and I had uh lunch with the mayor today I told him about it and he says uh that will be in the briefings for the mayor when he takes office uh I'm sure the City attorney will brief him and city manager um as far as I know and I think I know it state law requires a local planning agency so he might want to get rid of us but he can't um I understand what he's saying about streamlining but advertising goes in that you have to have the public hearings depending on what it is and the advertising takes weeks so like the trains that pass through town now and stop so frequently um streamlining is not exactly fast okay thank I'll rest tonight thank you any other people that like to speak okay old business we have none new business item a Eddie yes sir thank you chairman this item begins on page nine uh this is the Consolidated fees for development applications and legal advertising ordinance the City offers a number of significant services to its residents business owners and visitors for which it charges fees that should be commensurate with the cost incurred by the city to perform the service currently the city's development application fees are separated by the cost of processing the application and the cost of advertising any necessary public hearing the city regularly evaluates the true cost of services and proposes adjustments where necessary based on an evaluation of advertising costs for the past year it is recommended that the advertising fees be incre increased further the advertising fees should be Consolidated into the development application fees the Consolidated fees will provide ease of understanding by the public and implementation by the city the staff recommends amending the development review procedures manual section 17 by this ordinance and updating the development application fees in order to include the cost of required advertising um just kind of a quick summary um the city clerk's office is responsible for procuring the legal advertisements for a lot of the Quasi judicial items that you hear and and the ordinances that you hear um and they've noticed that the cost that we've been charging applicants hasn't been fully covering the cost of um advertising and so um in order order to simplify things um one increase the the amount that we charge for the advertising to cover that cost but then also uh to simplify for our applicants because right now we have two different uh fee schedules we have a fee schedule that's for advertising and a fee schedule that's for application fees um so when an applicant asks us if I'd like to reson my property how much is it going to cost we don't have a flat rate fee um a fee schedule that includes just one fee uh we have to refer to two different uh resolutions or I think they're adopted by ordinance now but previously they were resolutions and so instead of Consulting two different uh schedules of fees one for application and one for advertising we're proposing to simplify that by consolidating these and increasing the cost of the advertising fee any questions Mr Glendo Vice chairman Aon um just looking at these um and understanding what comes before us how is seems like a just not to pick on anybody but like a Tranquility a massive project um the the Titus Titusville Mall project those kinds of things are are massive and then there's I think at the corner of you probably need to speak um the corner of Fox Lake uh Road in that area there's I think a little double town home or something something going on there um is are some of these if it meets a particular criteria it's kind of a flat rate or is there some discretion that I know some of these bigger ones you guys put a tremendous amount of effort into is is that fee commencer with the amount of effort or is it just kind of a one-size fits-all type of a thing uh generally speaking the so some of those examples that you gave uh some of them have different application types to them so for example the Tranquility also has a Community Development District application fee that was significantly larger than U the just a simple small scale Amendment or a comprehensive plan Amendment the um if you'll notice some of the fees have an plus $8 per acre and that's what that's attempting to get at is to charge more for these applications that are going to have um that are changing a larger area of the city's future land use map and like require more analysis eight bucks an acre seems cheap any other questions Mr rers Mr Rogers um hey is there any way in which um I I I would imagine not but is there any way in which this would result in a reduced visibility uh for notification to the public like obviously when you're advertising something that's you're still going to be advertising it but was there some way in which being in this separate Department uh the Community Development fees that that went onto some list that was then public or was there any other way that that helped enhance transparency and publicity for what was being planned No in fact I would suggest that this improves transparency for our applicants who are wanting to know what their application fees are going to be um instead of having to refer to two different documents now they have one uh single ordinance that will have all the application fees uh a combined application fee instead of having to kind of add it up peace meal okay but there's no additional advertising or or notification through having separate fees but my um I mean my point is I mean I I I see the point of making it easy for people who are who are making these applications but I also just want to make sure that we're still we've still got the same visibility for the citizens to be able to see you know what's happening but but the the advertising component doesn't change and there was no there was no particular publicity that was coming from the other just simply the you know the other development fee that's correct okay and the other question just was I just it it seemed a little some of these things you know some of these fees doubled um you know 1575 to 3025 and some of them sort of just bumped up a little you know um it seemed like they were you know it was I like the 7 735 went to 2,185 so more than doubled um you know um I just wonder what why the discrepancy between um the percentage jump in some of these it's a good question it's because some of the applications require um either a larger legal advertisement or more than one legal advertisement and so um where where you'll see the the biggest increases are where the legal advertisement cost um is is the highest okay so the conditional use permit going from 1575 to 7 1775 you know it's a $200 jump that's just not a really big thing right it's small okay okay any other questions uh have you ever advertised and folded today it's expensive it really is so I think what that staff is proposing but I would ask this question how does this compare to other cities in barod County as far as the cost of the format the cost um I I don't have an answer for you um on the Fly I can tell you that what we did when we were um considering changing the format the structure of it was um looking at the other other cities do they U charge a separate advertising fee or roll it in and um from the examples that we saw this was the cleanest way to do it but as far as how different the application fees are I'd have to do more research for you okay last one Vice chairman Eton I've I've read some stuff that the whole um legal advertising business for lack of a term better term or um it's it's getting to the point where chairman Richardson mentioned Florida today that the things that people look at are changing um is there what's the trend uh or is there any focus on is this really the best way to create transparency um to the public as as far as the the the way we're advertising things not so much that we are advertising it but you know is it is it the right fit still versus 20 years ago sure um if the state statutes were to change to allow us to advertise in a way that was more cost effective or or more visible than a newspaper um we'd be interested in in seeing what we could do with that but right now this is what we're required to do by law I can just chime in that I know that the discussion of what newspaper we're going to publish in and the method of advertising has been a conversation that I recall in my experience here at least no less than you know two different um Council conversations you know where it's been evaluated information has been brought back and it's been determined that no changes were warranted or wanted by the council because of the information presented if that helps your decision- making it's not like it's something something we haven't looked at remember once go so um how is the development Review Committee advertised and is that one also in the newspaper I know that it's published as a sunshine meeting but I don't believe that those items are advertised in the paper yeah I don't know I'd have to look into that I mean I've I've attended one of those and I think it was just published downstairs so I was just curious of the the 250 and because that committee is also comprised of um staff correct so is that um an additional charge for the staff's time or not that I'm aware of I mean I didn't see it anywhere on there I was just curious the development review committe is listed on page uh 12 of 16 under letter I at near the top of the page um and it says there's no changes to the $250 so yeah just because there's no advertising then there's no change to the fee any other questions Mr Rogers um besides the newspaper uh is this information posted anywhere else uh simply like on the city website or or the um the ordinances uh yeah when people apply to to you know I don't know chain zoning or something like that um to be honest I'd have to ask the city clerk's office if they post it on the website they post a lot of information so I would be surprised if they don't but um at at a minimum that's what we're required to do is publish it in the newspaper I was just thinking I mean obviously there's what you're required to do as a minimum but I wonder if it wouldn't be helpful for again transparency's sake which I I think we all value here um simply to to put it in another location um you know cuz you know we all know the newspapers are not always the first thing that people go to for information um perhaps it would be nice to have um have a page somewhere that uh has kind of upcoming resoning and things like that so that the citizens are more aware more able to find what's Cooking so in the recent past about two years ago the Florida legislature Incorporated a new requirement for all Florida cities and counties to publish a business impact estimate on the city's website concurrent or prior to no later than the date of the first advertisement for any ordinance and so at a minimum the general public could go to the city of titus's business impact estimates web page I don't know if Mr Rogers can see it from behind my shoulder but you just type it in the search bar and it will give you a list of all the ordinances and the date that it was posted on this website and it won't tell you all of the content of the ordinance but if you click on each it'll give you the title of the ordinance which is supposed to give you a sufficient description of what the ordinance is intended to do and if you wanted to obtain that ordinance of course you could contact the city staff member responsible for it or the city clerk to get that ordinance in its entirety okay and what is the name of that it's they're called business impact estimates and it's a requirement from Florida Statutes that we post this on our web page honor before the date of the first advertising of any ordinance and there's some that are exempt from filling out part of the form but you'll get the title of the ordinance in every single form are you I know that both of you in your is your mic con I know that both of you in your daily jobs um you know chew through stuff that would probably put most people to sleep after three paragraphs and um so you know I I I kudos for that skill but do you consider this to be fairly user friendly as far as a sort of um you know Jane and Joe citizen go I would say so yeah so it's the same information that we're publishing in the newspaper it's the the the top of the ordinance which kind of lays out what's being proposed what's changing what deletions are being made or additions or or edits that same language that we would publish in the newspaper is what's on that form so it is basically this what you were asking for that same information is on the web page I forgot about that we have a web page just for that and then of course the calendar tells you when each of the board meetings are the city website has also a calendar that has the agenda posted for the different boards that talk about the different topics of discussion that any user could find from the front page of the city's website because the um calendar is highlighted on that front page thanks any other questions okay do we have any cards Lori yes sir uh Tony shiff I'll open the public hearing Shuff the historic Norwood house I looked over this in the agenda packet which is very easy to find now um on the on the website I want to congratulate the clerk St for um making this accessible um but I question and and I even question even more now who sets the ad rates the state does the state have a level or is it the publisher that sets Florida Today Florida today uh being one of those nerds who actually subscribes to the legal notices from Florida today and look over them and then click on the more entertaining ones I've rarely seen much from from Titusville in their little Recaps that doesn't mean it isn't there um but it does mean that the average citizen is not going to run across them very easily and um I want to know now what if Florida Today changes their rates next month and you've just folded it into your whole process wouldn't it be simpler to have your rates for your um multif family and your single family and the variance and all the things that you listed in those documents and have a rate chart for advertising that it's $1 199.95 per word BL blah blah or whatever it is and you just look there because what's going to keep Florida today from changing their rates do you have to go through this process again is my question when they do change their rates do you have to Eddie do you have to go through this process again if Florida Today changes or or Mr chairman I think it's a matter of competition if there were several newspapers and I've been in this before when I was on Council that before we had lights ands we worked with chisels um we had a couple different there was The Bard Sentinel and the star Advocate and the Florida today and something else I can't remember what it was but we had competition among those and we asked have newspapers too we awarded the bid for a year to one or the other other one and so it was least expensive then I see and I think we don't have much competition now but my question is since there is no competition in the way of the American capitalism is that they could raise their rates my question is what is the process for if your advertising publisher raises his rates does this process have to be gone through again where it's brought to council why is it folded into the price of the permits that you're going to be examining or the Eddie correct me if I'm wrong but we'd have to go through amending the ordinance again right that's correct then why are you folding it into the other rates I think it's a matter of simplification but it doesn't simplify things if the rates change again does if you're the one that has to pay the fee am I right so even if we kept them separate if the legal ads uh fees were to change we'd have to bring that back if it were adopted by an ordinance so the same the process would be the same okay thank you thank you Vice chairman Aon there there is verbage in the bold print at the beginning of the ordinance uh toward the bottom says section 1710 special circumstances authorizes the city to collect fees equal to cost if new advertising requirements are created I don't know if that covers them changing their rates but seems like equal to the cost of provide some flexibility there to make sure the city's not losing money in the process any other cards no sir okay we'll close the public here and we'll bring it back to the commission any other questions anyone care to make a motion M uh Vice chairman Aon uh sure I'll move to approve What's the title of it here where' it Go ordinance number X x-24 I guess it doesn't have a real number yet uh as presented I'll second member of moso seconded any other discussion roll call please Lori Vice chairman Eton yes member Childs yes member Moscoso yes secretary Grant yes member Rogers yes member facon yes chairman Richardson yes this will be heard at city council when or the next meeting at the November uh 26 meeting okay that's when the new Council takes office isn't it that's right and next item on the agenda is the uh presentation by the te chair LLY Thompson and she should be here in a few minutes so do we want have a break or do want discuss something else that's not on the agenda councilwoman mcos I think has a speech oh really yes she was saying that she wanted to say something to us okay we'll call a break for approximately 10 minutes as soon as she gets here then I'll call us back to order e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I saw her presentation at Sunrise Rotary last Tuesday and it really was uh an inform informative presentation and uh there was a member of council there um that was amazed at what you're about to see lle there we go okay ly Thompson 3550 Irwin Avenue Mims um let me figure out which way I got to push the button but that's good okay here we go so I can roll so um thank you for the opportunity for me to speak today um I really appreciate the opportunity and I'm really glad GL you like my presentation um this picture looks very different than it did the first time NASA revealed a view of Florida's night sky from space there's a lot more lights in our landscape today you see that tiny little black Gap along the coastline where the yellow arrow is that is canaval National Seashore Meritt Island National Wildlife Refuge and the northern portion of the Kennedy Space Center northern bvar county is the only place where one can stand on the West Shore of an uary along Florida's East Coast and look towards a Barrier Island and not see lights from hotels condos and houses the headwaters of all three components of the Indian River Lagoon system come together in this very special area in Northern Bard County the Indian River mosquito Lagoon and Banana River they're estuaries vibrant areas where freshwat from natural sources on the land mixes with saltwater from the ocean to create incredibly productive ecosystems our seagrass Meadows and salt marsh impoundments that we have up here in in our area Supply life to the other areas of the Lagoon where over deel development limits the functionality of the Lagoon this part of the Lagoon is Far From Any ocean inlets and no flushing occurs from the ocean here what goes into the Lagoon stays into the Lagoon ha the Lagoon sandy beaches form essential habitat for many organisms seagrass and other organic materials wash up on the beach to form rack which provides food and habitat for many insects birds and small crustations while it incubates Beach plants that help anchor the shoreline this habitat provides many important services to humans including erosion control Recreation and jobs most most important sandy beaches provide protection from storms and Storm surges that cause coastal flooding sandy beaches are important for fiddler crabs these little crabs help preserve our coastal wetlands by burrowing deep into the mud of the marshes the crabs create a maze of tunnels that arate the marsh grasses and help them to grow fiddler crabs are also a vital Link in the Lagoon's food web sandy beaches are crucial for the survival of larger crabs too as this is where horseshoe crabs come to spawn they can't lay their eggs on rocks and seaw walls horseshoe crabs are the oldest living species on Earth having survived unchanged for more than 450 million years many fish species dying on horseshoe crab eggs and juvenile horseshoe crabs horseshoe crab eggs are all also a crucial food source for Shorebirds whose migrations coincide with horsey crab spawning today much of the land that Shorebirds rely on has been lost damaged or it's not being managed effectively as such shore birds are one of the most imperiled bird groups our own Titusville Causeway is the most important place in the entire state for spawning horseshoe crabs and the Shorebirds that depend on the horseshoe crab eggs for a Sur survival more than 90% of the Lagoon shorelines are hard armored protected by either a vertical seaw wall or by rocks placed along the shoreline these three videos were all filmed on the same day it was blowing about 20 to 25 and gusting to 35 miles an hour out of the Northeast so this first video was taken next to the large Pavilion in San Point Park and you can see what happens when big waves slam into the seaw wall there's a washing machine like effect when the waves hit the wall and bounce off and then head back in the same direction from whence they came this backwash causes severe scouring of the river bottom sea grasses cannot grow in those conditions worms clams and other bottom creatures can't survive there either it's a little better with rock revetments but there's still backwash coming off the rocks and and the large waves they'll pull the dirt out from behind seaw walls and rock revetments which will lead to failure of these systems that are supposed to protect the shoreline NOW Watch What Happens how and how gently the waves wash up and recede from the Sandy Beach which was on the north side of the Titusville Causeway and seagrasses they can grow all the way up you know to to the the low water line when they have a sandy beach so it's blowing it's gusting 35 miles hour I could almost barely stand up and yet those waves are just gently washing up on that beach um this is the what the north side of the causeway looked like in March of 2017 we had a beautiful Sandy Beach that has been used by residents for many decades that beach was here when my parents were kids in the 1940s they talked about going swimming on the causeway this is what the north side of the causeway look like um the morning after Hurricane Milton um and you know when it's complete this project is supposed to um well I think it's supposed to reduce the storm water that's going into the Lagoon that is its main function but there's a seaw wall there and you saw what happens when waves hit the seaw wall so um this is what happen during Hurricane Milton um I don't know if there is there a pointer on here Eddie I don't see a red button I'm not going to do anything to mess it up so you can see in the foreground Where the Sidewalk has collapsed and then further back you see where the sidewalk is like the same level as the seaw wall or the thing that's I was told was not a seaw wall but it sure looks like a seaw wall to me um the waves came over over this is new construction right this is the new construction this is the north side of of of the of the causeway and the deal is is that they are supposed to put in a beach on the other side of the thing that's not a seaw wall that looks like a seaw wall and and and and they're supposed to give us a beach well because of the seaw wall I don't think it I don't think sand is going to stay there very long we're going to we're going to be finding ourselves having to keep putting sand there so I don't know how long the county is going to do that but they had to sign a memorandum of understanding with FWC that the county would always maintain a Sandy Beach there because of the significance for the spawning horseshoe crabs so what are we doing on the south side of the causeway um to try to save its Beach come on there no I'm going the wrong way here there we go wave attenuation devices so these are being constructed by sea and Shoreline aquatic solutions they there was a few of them they started out on the causeway but now they're over by where the Big Apple Plaza was there there there'll be like about 650 of them when they're done and they're almost done they hope to be um putting them in the Water by the end of the month um the dangerous ugly rocks and construction debris that's there along the causeway will be removed and S will be added so will have a beach that goes all the way down the south side of the causeway these are um wave attenuation devices that are located at Simmons Park which is on the east side of Tampa Bay but that'll that'll give you an idea of how they function so they go out in a double array and every everywhere there's a gap there's another wave attenuation device behind it so there's like there's no open open holes for the water to go through it's always going to be hitting either the front side or you know the one that's behind it and they have holes they have triangular holes in them so they're Hollow and when the waves hit them what happens is the waves the water will pass through them because they're Hollow and because they're not right on top of each other but it knocks the power out of the waves and any suspended solids that are within the waves they deposit on the beach that that's along the shoreline so since since they put in um the the uh pelis County or Hillsboro County they had to renourish the beach initially but they've never had to put any more sand on that beach since then and the beach has gotten wider and wider and wider and it's from those and and as soon as they go into the water they instantly become um essential fish habitat because M muscles and oysters and clams and algaes and sponges grow on them Bait fish come and hide inside them and when you have Bait fish then then the Predator fish come in the fishermen love them um they catch big snook and red fish and trout around them so we're going to have that that same um effect here on our Titusville Causeway so when both of these projects are completed the Titus will Causeway will have more than $12 million invested in infrastructure along the causeway um more than $8 million on the North side and a little over $4 million on the South Side the the north side is a perfect example of gray infrastructure for for resiliency and the south side of the causeway which is those four pictures there are artist renderings of what the south side of the causeway will look like that is green infrastructure for resiliency so we're going to be like a a a a showcase for for the two different um you know the two different types of resiliency and you can see the wave attenuation in the upper right you see there's a boat and then there's like a white line that white line by that boat that is the wave attenuation devices so that's how far offshore they'll be and they'll provide a calm Lagoon that seagrass will come back in because you won't we we won't have that wave scouring effect that we have on the causeway now with all the construction debris and rocks that are there um and and seagrass well we're going to plant seagrass but it's also I know it's going to come in naturally so what are seagrasses why are they useful seagrasses are flowering plants that live underwater they provide Prime habitat for fish crabs and other marine life and they're considered a key barometer of an estuary's overall health seagrass Meadows are the foundation for the astonishing diversity of life that's found in the Indian River lagoon one single acre of seagrass can support 40,000 fish and 50 million small invertebrates like shrimp crabs oysters and snails seagrasses are beneficial because they filter water by absorbing nutrients and pathogens they remove carbon dioxide from the water and use it to build their roots and leaves seagrasses hold down sediments and capture fine particles which increases water CL ity seagrass Meadows buffer Coastal communities from the full impact of waves and they protect shorelines from errosion seagrasses need the salinity above 20 parts per thousand in order to thrive numerous commercially and recreationally important animals use the Indian River Lagoon and its seagrass beds you might think of some of these fish as offshore species like the Snappers and the groupers um and the mackerels but all of these highly recognizable animals spend the early part of their lives in The seagrass Meadows of estuaries our Indian River Lagoon is hugely important for our offshore um ocean fisheries this slide from the St John's River Water Management District shows where the seagrasses are returning and the UPG the uptick that you see in the graph that's all the way over on the right hand side that is all due to new growth in seagrass in the mosquito Lagoon and the northern Indian River and it's really hard to see but the the the left-and picture is 2021 and you can see that there's seagrass growing along the east side of mosquito Lagoon and that's about the only place that was growing and then in 2023 you've got seagrass growing along the west side of the mosquito Lagoon and you've also got a patch that's growing along Black Point South of hover canal in the Indian River Lagoon and a little tiny patch that's um north of Mims on the west side of the northern Indian River Lagoon that was two years ago or or no last year so the Water Management District they only do these transects every two years if they had done a transect this year the almost the entire shoreline of the west side of the Indian River Lagoon would have solid seagrass from just north of the um Mims Fish Camp all the way up to scotsmore Landing miles and miles and miles of seagrass it's phenomenal um to what to what is that attributed H to what is that attributed that I'm going to get to that just let me turn the page here and Catch My Breath okay so the increase was 5,775 Acres 5,261 acres for the M Southern mosquito Lagoon and 5 114 acres for the northern Indian River um and so it was no surprise to me when the seagrass came back so strong in the southern mosquito Lagoon after all there's no houses on septic there's no ditches and ponds discharging storm water and there's no overwhelmed wastewater treatment facilities releasing sewage into the southern mosquito Lagoon the only fresh water that goes into the southern mosquito Lagoon falls from the sky as rain that's it Zero Storm water only rain goes into the southern mosquito lagon hurricanes Ian and Nicole washed seawater over the dunes at Canaveral National Seashore and into mosquito Lagoon during September and October of 2022 um the solinity in the southern mosquito Lagoon until September of this year stayed as high as as um that of seawater and also because we had a lack of rainfall in the early part of our summer the salinity in the northern Indian River was also as high as the salinity of seawater so between the lack of fresh water that was going into those two bodies of water and then the fact that the salinity was so high that's what caused the um the Water Management District scientists believe that the um and also both bodies of water are shallow so the the sunlight can reach the bottom the it our part of the Indian River is a lot deeper than the Northern end is so you had all of these factors that triggered um seagrass growth from a seed bank and so they've now started doing research um just real recently doing core samples all up and down the the Indian River looking for seeds in the core samples and where they're finding a lot of seeds in the sediments of the Lagoon that's where the seagrasses are are trying to come back and have a lot of seeds in the core samples in the northern Indian River Lagoon and the southern mosquito Lagoon so th this video was taken at scotsmore Landing in the northern Indian River in August of of this year um the summer of 2024 was very dry with a major deficit in rainfall like mosquito Lagoon the northern Indian River is very shallow which allows sunlight to reach the seagrass higher than normal salinity may have helped trigger growth from the seed bank here seagrass is growing just like this all along the western shore of the Indian River for miles from Little flounder Creek all the way to North of scotsmore Landing was unbelievable and if you look close you can see little snails that are on the seagrass blades and and snails on the bottom it's full of life so why are seagrass is doing so well north of the railroad bridge while so little is happening along Titusville Shoreline this is a big part of the reason we have been draining a large area of wetlands and storm water from developments into the Indian River for decades the water does pass through we have four baffle boxes that the water goes through on its uh Journey to the river that this this area the big part of that funnel looking thing is is in the St John's River Basin it's not supposed to be draining into the Indian River Lagoon and and so it goes into the the Lagoon um at the end of St John Street which is right behind the dusty rose so if you if you um wait till it rains and then if you want to see a site go go right there where Indian River Avenue kind of makes that curve and there's a big storm water drain right there and freshwater from that Wetland and from some of the developments in whisper Hills and Forest Hills are draining into the Indian River um stop right there stop right there okay just a second this is where the development [Music] was that we talked about two weeks ago well just north of the X it's in the middle of that area area mhm and it used to drain in the St John's and it's causing pollution it's causing no growth in the Indian River because because the water we can't get the salinity High Enough by Titusville to support Healthy seagrass Growth or oysters or clams that's why these projects at the zoo they came up and they did a study up here to see if it if we could plant oysters up here and they they didn't even waste their time with oysters and they tried planting clams but the clams don't survive either because they have to have salinity above 20 parts per thousand to thrive and we have salinity that high in the wintertime but as soon as it starts raining in the winter time our salinity goes straight downhill so so the baffle boxes you know they they take out Leaf detrus trash and and even sand particulates from the storm water but even if we filter the storm water to where it could be used in a hospital too much fresh water itself is poisonous to the Lagoon animals and its seagrasses water from most of this Basin once flowed west to the St John's river so remember what I said at the beginning of my talk estuaries are vibrant areas where freshw water from natural sources on the land mixes with saltwater from the ocean to create incredibly productive ecosystems storm water from development is not it is not a natural source of fresh water I look like Tony don't I um and we shouldn't be draining a wetland that's in the St John's River Basin into the Indian River and we've been doing that since the 1940s how much fresh water have we been putting into the Indian River since since the 1940s and so see where that yellow X is um this is what happen during Ian come on so that there's um that yellow X is right in the middle of the Bloody Mary ditch um which you've heard Stan talking about in the flooding in the nine city streets and there's some of the nine city streets right there like Carol Avenue that's the end of Carol Avenue so you can see where those signs are in the upper left hand picture there's a street there that's the end of Street the pavement goes all the way to those signs and um then so the the top pictures are uh more Becca Street and Carrol Avenue and the bottom two pictures are in the Temple Terrace area where the flooding was even worse than it was um in the baker subdivision so um this is what happens you know what when you're draining a huge Wetland and and you got a big area of water and it's going into a fun tunnel and It's Going Underground through pipes and stuff you've constricted that water now so it it was a great big huge ditch where the water was flowing really really good and then it goes by the senior center and then it goes underneath Park Avenue and then it gets constricted by the storm water pipes and so it backs up it it it's pouring out into the Indian River Lagoon but it's still backing up and creating this flooding along the streets in in the old um older sections of of whisper and Hills so massive flooding of neighborhoods occurred when hurricane Ian's um rainfall constriction at culverts caused the flood waters to back up into streets overwhelmed L stations failed and sewage flowed down the streets this is this is where the sewage was that the city is saying didn't happen but it happened I saw it so um this is the St John Street outfall in this was in February of this year and you can actually see the Culvert and you can see the Rocks along the side of the of the ditch and you see the water that's like the color of the St John's river going out into the Indian River Lagoon and um it's hard to see because of the lighting but you can definitely see a demarcation between the sand the white lighter colored sand in the middle kind of at the end of the docks and then the deeper blue of the deeper waters of the Indian River and that brown Water depending on which way the wind's blowing it either goes south or north along Riverside Drive so um at a city council meeting recently Dwight siver's wife got up and was talking about how how they were planting seagrass in the zoo had planted seagrass but the seagrass wasn't doing very well there's why and then this is what it looked like 4 days after Milton the covert is completely underwater you can't see the Rocks along the side of the ditch it is completely underwater yet fresh waterer is pouring out of that thing and going into the Indian River Lagoon um with sea level rise we Titusville is faced with the fact that our storm water conveyances eventually are going to fail because they're going to all be underwater so you know this happens it's unfortunate that we get these hurricanes and storms at the same time of the year that we get the king Tides so if you paid attention to the river you know every fall the river gets higher and it gets and it gets higher every year and So eventually our our there you know the way that we're moving storm water and dumping it into the L into the Lagoon it's not going to work anymore so um that fact alone that should Inspire us you know to follow the advice of the St John's River Water Management District folks and figure out how to create a collection of small storm water parks that can hold storm water and let it soak into our aquifer rather than dumping it into the river our own comprehensive plan has the lofty goal of locating a park within a 10-minute walk of every city in Titusville that's in your comp plan well what a great way you know to to create these parks for people to walk to and and what a wonderful addition to our quality of life a collection of storm water parks would be and that would be so much better for the river um the Indian River Lagoon it is more than just a beautiful body of water nestled inside Coastal Barrier Islands um it's one of the greatest estuaries in the entire country its diversity of life is unmatched its total annual economic value in 2015 was 7.6 billion dollar a staggering economic impact that affects communities and economies throughout its entire length everything about our way of life here in bravar county is enhanced and given greater value due to the influence of the Lagoon a major cause of the Indian River Lagoon's impairment is reduction of its salinity due to storm water runoff we up here in the northern part of bravard County we're the stewards of the portion of the Indian River Lagoon that supplies life to the remainder of the Lagoon we have a great responsibility to ensure that we do the Lagoon no further harm um and I I been to the um Marine Resources Council low impact develop um conference today and tomorrow and one of the things you know that I heard from multiple speakers today that the new industry standard as they're struggling with ways to ways to not only keep you know storm water from going into the Indian River Lagoon but also to recharge our aquafer and keep saltwater intrusion from coming in because we've pulled all the fresh water out of our aquafer they they are definitely pushing the the concept of of small storm water parks spread throughout the communities along the Lagoon so we have an opportunity here to be a leader um does anybody have any questions and thank you for your time and thank you for inviting me [Applause] let Mr Rogers um M Thompson thanks for thank you for your work and for you know for your caring and for you know I don't know your I think it's probably uh it's probably a thankless task sometimes and uh I um I I appreciate you what you do um there was I'm trying to remember exactly in what context but there was a mention made of you mentioned um hurricanes dumping seawater into the mosquito Lagoon but there there was a mention made of possibly trying to fix our problem by by pumping seawater into our area um do you know much about whether that's kind of in development or whether it would work or whether it has been trying I don't know how are you going to run big pipes across the Space Center I can only think 10 miles across the the Meritt Island to get from the ocean to our area and and so um I I don't know how it was also our our area the Lagoon we have the widest part of the entire Lagoon is right here east of Titusville there nowhere else along the entire Indian River Lagoon is there as much water yeah that's being impacted as what we have here in Titusville um you know I i' you know people have said why don't we why don't we um why don't we open an inlet and and and let let saltwater come into mosquito Lagoon the thing about an inlet is unless it's really really deep and you can move a large volume of water through it it really doesn't have a lot of impact except for just a few miles close to the inlet so opening up an inlet where these wash overs are occurring in mosquito Lagoon it's not going to help the Indian River at all what helped the northern Indian River this year was lack of rainfall and evaporation of of and it left the salt water and the the fresh water evaporated um I I don't know logistically how you could move enough seawater over Meritt Island to get to this part of the Lagoon to make that make that happen um and so if that doesn't work um that whole area that you showed that used to flow that comes right up you know right up to here that used to flow to and drain to the St John's river um has has it been considered trying to reestablish that direction yes and can that be done or do you know much about that so part of the problem is I95 before they built I95 there was sheet flow um you know down south of Fox Lake Road that whole area between Highway 50 and Fox Lake Road there was sheet flow you know towards the St John's river but then they built this gigantic Dam called I95 across this area where the sheet flow there are box CTS underneath I95 and that's another thing that I I'm sure you've heard heard from Stan is that um the the Box culs are not being maintained by fdot so I don't know if that's true or not you know I just I have heard it from Stan I also heard from Stan that um so on the other on the west side of I95 there's ditches that are in the St John's National Wildlife Refuge which is managed by the Meritt Island folks that if those ditches are are not kept cleaned out then water can't go through them so the water from from these these big Wetlands on the west side of of us is supposed to go through the box coverts under 995 and through ditches out to the St John's river so that's something that needs to be investigated um Jolin and I met with Kevin Cook and Sandra reer last week and and we brought this up to Kevin and Kevin said that he has spoken to the wildlife U officials and they have assured him that the ditches are flowing but if the ditches are flowing and we and and we we have we're flooding because of um you know high water in those wetlands and the water's not moving through the coverts under I95 well that would kind of tell you that the ditches aren't functioning on the other side so there's that that needs to be looked into I have met with um Mike mcmoneagle from St John's River Water Management District he's newly hired he's been there about a year he is the Basin project manager for the northern Indian River lagun and he is in complete agreement that we should not be pushing that water um through that Culvert at the end of St John Street but you can't block the ditch if you block that ditch you're going to flood all those neighborhoods that are on the west side of Park Avenue from Harrison Street all the way to the Sheriff's Department they would all go underwater so you can't you can't block you cannot just put a dam across that ditch um so you know I think that and I don't even know if we could get the permitting and I don't even know if this is a viable idea but I think that we could we could dig a big lake out in the middle of one of those wetlands and use that you know to push our stormm water West and and that would create a nice um amenity you know to have a nice Lake out there that we could go kaying on and it would attract birds and like I said I don't know if this is a stupid idea or not but it seems like if you could dig a big excavate a big area that our the water could go there and and soak down into the aquifer instead of running it into the Indian River lagon the Water Management District it they are aware of what's going on up here um they're more focused on doing the easy projects down in the South End of the county where they have these big canals that they can turn the water West um that they they all say you know there it's a challenge on on how to fix the plumbing up here and and but they also have said we're here to help and they if they if you know if our leadership would step up and stick out their hand and say we need help not me but the mayor the the city manager you know incoming city council person huh and city council city council yeah that's what they said they said you know get get your Administration to reach out to us because um you know there's there's grant money that that's that's available um you know for resiliency and this is this is certainly a resiliency in flooding issue so the we we qualify for grant money but there there needs to be a partnership you know that can help Cobble together some grants but the first thing has to be our leadership asking for help has to come from somebody that's a lot higher up than I am child I actually had one more question okay um I just was going to say you know my my brother-in-law is actually the president of thousand friends of Florida and a few years ago yeah a few years ago um there was a a really bad algae bloom possibly even a red tide farther south um and um he said um for the first time he had very very prominent business people coming up to him and saying we've got to get serious about the enironment and he said on the one hand it was gratifying because he said you know like finally it seemed like people in positions of you know financial and political power were finally paying attention to what you know he said that what the hippies have been saying all along um but but he said you know on the other hand it was a little disappointing that you know they only you know sort of got moved to do so when suddenly their own you know money was at risk um because really the smell was so bad in the area and you know basically everything was dying and do you see you've probably been doing this for a while in this area do you see an increased amount of awareness in the sort of business and political community that this is in fact good business to take care of the environment or no and and you know you're talking about the summer of 2018 when you know whale sharks and manatees and sea turtles were washing up on the beaches of Santa Bell Island it killed the T the summer tourism uh for that summer for Southwest Florida and also um the Stewart Fort Pierce area because you had green algae over on our coast and red algae um red tide over there and and you are correct you know I I made a present ation to the board of the um Florida restaurant and Lodging Association they asked me to come and do a presentation on algae blooms and I did that presentation to them a month before things really got ugly in Southwest Florida and and yes you had Hotel years and restaurant tours stepping up going oh my gosh we have to do something but their memories are short because the very next year we didn't have a red tide and we didn't have green algae down in Stewart and people having to hold handkerchiefs over their faces to walk around in downtown Stewart so when it and also the other thing too is that these Coastal incidents they don't impact the theme parks in Orlando and those are the guys that have all the power and so we we could have all kinds of horrible things happening in our estuaries but until it impacts tourism at Disney World and Universal you know few Hotel years and and restaurant operators from Santa Bel Island they don't have the clout that the the the tourism world of Orlando has and that's the sad fact I mean I'm on the board of the Florida restaurant and Lodging Association I'm their token environmentalist and I represent the commercial fishing industry and they'll write a letter you know if I ask them to they'll sign on to different letters that we've asked them to write over the years but you know when it comes to asking them to make a big stink and and try to defend their their commercial fishermen and their restaurant their seafood restaurants and stuff they won't do it you know they just they don't they don't want to rock the boat you know in Tallahassee and and so we just keep kicking the can down the road but but your your brother-in-law is 100% correct because the tourism folks in Southwest Florida they they had a really bad summer that summer like I said their memories are short remember Charles is first go ahead uh so for the storm wire Parks besides building like one big huge Lake um if we did multiple storm water parks would we need to have them in that certain area that you marked on the on the map no they could be scattered around and they don't have to be these not have to be I'm learned so much at the low impact development conference today I mean they they've got technology now where they can do like going along a street they can they can do impervious concrete on the bike paths along the sides of a street and then um they can plant trees along the street and the trees help so soak up storm water they can build big caves underneath the ground and and and that can hold storm water um the technology is astonishing that's out there right now so um so if we just focus on it kind of all over the city yeah you can have little tiny I mean these if you've got a linear rain Garden that's going all along the street you know and and and and That Could That Could suffice as well as and and you know what Kevin said is like so much of Titusville is built out so it would be really hard to go back and retrofit it you may have to go into a neighborhood and buy a couple of houses and tear them down and then have a little small park but the there's there's ways to do this kind of stuff without you know without a lot of um without having to tear up a lot of area I I like I said I am learning so much at that low impact development conference that the techn every year just gets better and better and better there's a lot of really smart people and there's a lot of money to be made in in in in these kind of you know retrofits so there's a lot of really smart people that have jumped on the bandwagon you know to to create the technology there there's a a project is called the underline and it's a linear project in Miami Dade County and it I think it's 22 miles long and it goes underneath the metro and they've taken all of that blight and heat producing mess that's underneath the metro and they've created a linear Park and it and it has like different themes um they've created the habitat that once was there before the city came in and took out all the trees it's fascinating you know look it up underly in Miami Dade County it it is a fabulous park that's literally underneath the Metro 22m linear Park remember must go up yes ma'am thank you that was a wonderful presentation um I don't know if it's going to be possible for us to have a copy of it oh absolutely Eddie has it you can can you email a copy to us yeah it's a big file because of the videos so it takes a while to download but but yeah he's got it okay I mean that's how it was here tonight but as you were speaking it reminded me of a group um that came up and they called themselves The Heritage Coalition and they were in Whispering Hills and they were having um issues with their uh the the ditch behind their house or the canal behind their house and what they said is that there was um a dispute of of who maintained it so the city said that that the neighborhood did because back in the day it was the HOA and the residents are saying that the city does and and that's something I've noticed um in the past like six months I've walked tons of neighborhoods and seeing there's been a lack of Maintenance in a lot of our canals and so um it just made me think about the storm water and how how maintenance is such an important part of the storm water parks as well making sure our canals are maintained and um but this is a great presentation very eye openening um lots of really good information thank you so thank you thank you and congratulations thank you w year Aon uh mine follows up on member child a little bit Eddie if I I know we've talked a lot about developer incentives as they're presenting things and you know storm water trades and things like that has there ever been discussion about a concept where they go way over and above to build out something I know there was a little bit in Titus Landing where the intersection at Harrison was flooding is off the property but they they kind of went over and above with their storm water to cure or at least help prevent some of the flooding there but in some of the developments and and kind of like lle said a lot of the areas in Titusville that are in that yellow area are already built out so as Redevelopment happens and the developer wants to come in and redevelop something or perhaps there is a vacant track there that they want to do something with has there been any discussion a concept where if they go 200% above the storm water that's required for them to do the development they get credits to you know to basically offload other areas and and take the load off of the St John's um water or outfall there I'm not aware of any incentives for over engineering your storm water design more so for the LI techniques that are presented like at the L conference where we're trying to do Innovative uh ways of storing storm water in ways that can improve the water quality um not so much the water uh volume so I haven't seen um any cases where that there's a 200% storage on the site more than what they would have needed to to store we don't have any any incentives in the code that um provide any type of flexibility for doing such a over engineering what's it take to kick that off because it seems like I mean this stuff's not cheap and the city you know even if there was big tracks of land I'm not sure I I have no idea what like Dre park or Dre lake or whatever they're calling it but something I'm assuming something like that would be you know located out throughout the city and I assume that that's not inexpensive to build but if you could incent the developer to foot the bill for it as well as put up the land to do it it seems like it would go a long ways toward helping offset this issue yeah we do have in our technical manual we have a whole big lots of um low impact development Concepts and there are incentives that if they use these low impact development Concepts they can get like rewards like um additional parking or narrower streets um there the city staff did a lot work developing a technical manual aren't a lot of those for your development versus my concept is reach beyond your borders and do low impact development and storm water ponds and those kind of things that actually pulse or allow storm water from outside the boundaries of your property to to flow into those pieces um and and actually absorb storm water on your development that's beyond your development yeah I I think that probably they're going to have enough trouble trying to keep their own storm water on their own developments and especially when the new storm water rules kick in at the end of 2025 I think that's why you're going to see a big rush of people trying to push their developments through now to try to get out in front of stronger storm water rules that are going to take effect in 2025 December 28th 2025 that's the deadline so I I I understand what what you're saying but I don't I can't imagine any developer giving up part of their development to accept storm water from somebody you know from from a it might not get built otherwise that's my point is do what it the development might not get built otherwise unless they do that kind of a thing so that that might be the incentive that's a pretty strong incentive I'm thinking I don't think that the city could legally tell a developer that they have to store storm water from a street or from an older development I I just I don't know that area in Titusville that's causing the drain in the Indian River instead of St John's it looks like a balloon um what do you think about causing any development inside that until we figure out what to do well yeah but you'd have to pause it around the whole perimeter of the wetlands like all along 405 sordas for this this reason well yeah I think the problem is is we need to educate our elected officials because they tend to think that anytime you dump fresh water it's good water mhm yeah and we deated a lot because they don't want to hear it that the activity of the Space Center is dumping fresh water into the Lagoon yes it is it's Elon Musk yes yeah because he has all these launches that de dump in water and he may not know it has such an adverse effect on the Indian River and other rivers uh you know I think I think really think we do need to pause de development in that area and adjoining areas till we figure out what we can do and like L Lee said there's plenty of Grants out there the um the first step would be to get a feasibility study to try to understand what actually can be done to try to change the situation of of us funneling all that water into the into the river there'd have to be some kind of a study that's done so you'd have to get a grant for that first and then once feasibility study is done and you learn what it is you can do then you got to go find a lot of money to do whatever corrective measures that you can do then um and this question I'm gonna ask you and you know it um it's kind of a dumb question I remember when we moved here in ' 67 you could go the pier and pull up all kinds of shrimp uh angel fish even Blowfish the river was extremely active what's happened now oh you catch catfish all that you go out to the pier and go fishing the only thing you're going to catch is Catfish because the diversity the diversity of of life in the lagoon has been greatly diminished by the loss of the seagrass beds we had 100% loss of our seagrass beds the bottom of the river looks like a desert and then and then we've got because of the nutrients that are in the river you have cerpa which is looks like a seagrass but it's not a seagrass but it's better than nothing kerpa has started growing and it's holding the bottom down and then you have that red and brown drift algae that blows up against the shore and then dies and rots and stinks and people think you have a source pill but it's really rotting algae that that's what we have in the river in our part of the river um okay lle we really like your presentation and we appreciate you being here um I might mention that you were the restaurant tour of the year last year or this year last year okay for the whole state of Florida and thank you you served on the National Seashore Estuary I I was on the um the um South Atlantic fishery management Council appointed by President Biden no I was appointed by Governor DeSantis but then after 4 years of having a really good time on the council um I was not reappointed for many reasons I won't go into but and you are for those that don't know a part of owner in Dixie Crossroads so I and you're the chairman of Tec right here in Titusville we could we're lucky we have you well thank you serious thank you um yeah my menu mix at the restaurant when my parents opened the restaurant 40 years ago the the only thing they served was stuff out of the Indian Riv G you know we we got well the shrimp are are offshore and they're caught by the shrimp boats but they used the Lagoon as a nursery but we had um mullet and trout and you know red not not red fish but mullet trout um sheep head black drum um you know clams and oysters all came out of the Indian River Lagoon that that we were the locals seafood restaurant but over the 40 years that we've been there we've had to completely change our menu mix as as the Lagoon died you know couldn't get local seafood anymore I serve mostly as as much as I can domestic Seafood that comes out of American Waters that are that are caught by American fishermen but it is not coming out of the Indian River Lagoon I mean I watched in my lifetime I've watched the Indian River Lagoon go from a body of water that it was the most productive Estuary in the State of Florida and and it supported hundreds of families that of commercial fishing families there's nobody left that's that's there's a few people trying to eek out a living growing clams down by Sebastian Inlet and and up north up by um in New Smyrna so there there are some aquaculture operations but as far as a real commercial fisherman going out in a boat and trying to make a living and support a family they're gone they're they're not there anymore they can't they can't make a living anymore um the city of Titusville is so lucky uh that you serve as a chairman of TC well the city of Titusville we are so blessed you know there's you go south they they they you know they don't have any seagrass growing off outs off of their towns they you know they're bulldozing all their trees we haven't ruined our um environment up here the way they have down there I mean it's just it's solid development when down there we still have some really nice pockets of Woodlands right in the middle of town and like I said our Waters here Supply life to the rest of the Lagoon so we are the stewards of of you know what what grows up here moves to the other parts of the Lagoon and it's very very important that we maintain that and it's very important that the development at the Space Center do does no further harm to the Lagoon because the development that took place in the 1960s in the Space Center was catastrophic to the condition of the Lu and when they dyed the salt marshes and um you know built Earth and dams around all the salt marshes the salt marshes are like the lungs of the lagon they filter out all of the stuff out of the water and it's the nursery areas for the shrimp and the fish and the crabs and they turned 100% of the salt marshes across the river they turned them into freshwater Cattail ponds so the bass fishing in the 1960s late 19 1960s and70s was fantastic but the Lagoon died so they figured out that it actually they were trying to keep the Dusky Seaside Sparrow from going extinct and the last place at the Dusky Seaside Sparrow had been seen was one certain impound out on the Wildlife Refuge so they they they put culverts under the dyes and reconnected the river to to the what once was a salt marsh and very quickly the um Cattails died the the Carolina Willows died and your emergent salt marsh vegetation started coming back and they went wow this is really cool so the Dusky Seaside Sparrow went extinct but they saw what could happen but by reconnecting those those old historic salt marshes back to the Indian River Lagoon that's why we have life up here it's because of when you drive around the blackpoint wildlife drive out on the Wildlife Refuge you're driving on a earth and Dam that was put around assault Marsh in the 1960s for mosquito control so that the workers could work out at the Space Center and I I I I strongly believe and I think that's probably why I'm not on the federal Fish Council anymore because the governor he did not reappoint me but I think it's because of things that I have said said about development at the Space Center impact in the the lagon and um that's probably one of the reasons that I'm not there you know um a lawsuit over dead manatees might have been another reason but anyway I had fun while I was there but um you know it also it took a lot of time so um now that I'm not on the council anymore I have more time to work on the Lagoon any other questions I don't want about that I have several okay your first thing you showed up here oh can you get to come to the mic so that it's on record they hear okay PL in the beach yes sir your name and address for the record sure you don't have to stand carry over there because it's important what you're gonna say I'm sure no my question was what were you planning on doing with over plander Beach are you planning on putting those concrete pyramids out there no sir they're just going along the south side of the Titusville Causeway and and what is that going to do to the uh watercrafts and all how how's it going to affect them well we hope that the jet skis won't won't be allowed yeah but but there's no law that can stop it but we we we want to discourage the jet skis from from from moving around in the jet skis aren't supposed to be in the waters of the Wildlife Refuge anyway they they don't is this a wildlife refuge out here yes well it it is on the east side of the river well they're on the they're on the south side of the bridge on the middle of the river is that part of the uh um the wildlife out a certain distance away from the sh no I don't know I wouldn't argue with I just don't know I was just wondering because we have a lot of activity out there we did have and go over there quite often and I haven't seen one or two boats in the last month or two right because they can't launch off the beach on the North side anymore is that going to be permanent they won't be able to launch off the north side they can't launch off of the seaw wall well I don't know what you're doing ma'am so I'm that's my yeah no the north side of the causeway has a seaw wall I see that but I didn't know he going to have any ramps down there not there's two ramps but they're not going to be able to they're that's only for people to hand carry kayaks and canoes and maybe day Sailors and and another thing then I don't want to hold y'all up no you're fine but another thing you had mentioned when you're talking about Whispering Hills area that's where we live okay and every day I go every time you have a rain a little short light rain we will flood all the way from Bara down to Harrison and Harrison down to Hopkins and Hopkins is flooded we've been doing the storm water drainage or work on for for years now it hasn't changed a thing in that route I won't say it hasn't changed the thing but it hasn't changed the thing that route and now they're going to go up on our prices and it looks to me like we're running good money against bad you know just throwing it away because not not making any difference but anyway the only place I've ever seen any any number of horseshoe crabs is on the NASA Causeway where you also in in that um no sir the um NASA has cameras on that Causeway so that they can study you're right there hesho crabs have to have a Sandy Beach yeah the tit and the NASA Causeway are the only two causeways left in Bard County that aren't covered with rocks so NASA has cameras on that Causeway that they are videoing the the spawning horseshoe crabs and um I I have deep concerns that they may eventually the causeway is really really wide where the where the crabs are nesting so hopefully they're going to be okay but if that Causeway starts eroding really really bad they'll put rocks on it oh yeah they always do they always do yeah and may I ask you one question will y'all tell you the information she's giving you about the uh the drainage or or what do you call it St John's drainage and the storm water and have your storm water people look into that and see if this is what's causing a problem it's just filling that up that ditch or whatever that is you call it and caus this to back up when it rains because if it's not draining properly it's going to back up and if if that was if that's the place to start with it why don't you look into that for for drainage and help us r with that soaring water problem and our streets flooding um well I think it's more detailed than that no but it' be a place to stge uh yeah that's the council's concern because they're the ones that can order the studies uh done by the staff we just make recommendations to council um and since we've got a newly elected councilman appear council person yes we do um we'll think about it we'll do something can we have reason I'm saying this can we have your name for the record Bob trit and you your address 1808 hamton street right across the street from where you're going to St down that school you're yeah you're right there by Temple Terrace all that flooding is no I'm right in the middle of sister's Heights and they R across the street from me and the whis hill was elementary school is cross the other way yep but uh that's that's going to be another question yeah they they they they can't they cannot block that ditch right now or or your street would go underwater so they they they can't they that's why the ditch is still running the way it is because they would flood flood your neighborhoods or down there on Harrison Avenue I can't remember what the name the straight was is Pilgrim or something like that about a month ago it rained maybe 5 or 10 minutes and I'm serious you almost flooded your car out going through there it's over the curbs it got so bad and it's all it's one of the worst part of the area and I just wonder if anything was ever going to be done to really help us but I would appreciate it sir okay thank you that's what that's the goal is is to get something done and and and you're right we we cannot line 405 with apartment complexes or we're going to make the flooding in these older neighborhoods even worse because you know the storm there's storm water and when you displace um and fill in a wetland here or where's the water going to go that was in that Wetland that they're filling in to build the apartment complex it's just going to make the the flooding worse somewhere else so your suggestion of putting a more atorium on development along the 405 Corridor sounds nicer at least until we can get a study done that that that can tell us you know what what we need to do just it it doesn't make sense to just go ahead with a bunch of development now knowing what you know now I mean I I about passed out the first time I saw that that drawing you know that that that showed that funnel you know I always knew in my heart that there was something really not good going on there but when I when I saw that that picture that's in the slideshow I I couldn't believe it I was like well that explains it all now that that explains it that's why uh I was so um shocked by that this presentation you made at Rotary and I called Eddie as soon as I got in the car to arrange to have you here and he's going oh her again I appreciate it any other questions okay thank you very much for having me I I do have a question for Eddie and this might be a question for the city manager but how would we go about um with our grant writer for the city um we we work with her in order to get a feasibility study because I'd love to not just talk about it I'd love for it to actually be a a plan that we have in place and this is step one this is step two and so what would that look like if we wanted to let's say in the future move forward with this sure process-wise so we don't just have one grant writer um some of the Departments have uh staff that are kind of head the grants for each of the divisions um the first step would be Council would need to provide advisability to apply for some of these grants so the first step would be um Council letting staff know um the intent of the feasibility study and so that way we can start looking for um the grant opportunities once we have once we found an opportunity and it's available Council has to approve staff applying for the grant um once it's received Council has to accept the grant um the feasibility study we'd probably most likely have to go out to a continuing um contract um or we may have to go through the whole uh purchasing process um which means that we have to uh provide a call for um qualifications and firms are invited to provide their qualifications that they're um qualified to to write a feasibility study for the city um so it can take some time um but that's the F the first few steps thank you so much so that I just um to reiterate the the first step would be the council letting the staff know what the intent is is and that would be kind of the presentation that you print presented tonight um would be a good start with that thank you thank you for explaining that thank you for coming no thank you for inviting me uh next item is petitions and requests from the public present okay reports staff no report sir thank you no report City the attorney Chelsea I have nothing at this time I don't have anything to report any other member okay then we stand adjourned at uh 750 or is it