Good evening. I'd like to call to order the October 22nd meeting of the Titusville Planning and Zoning Commission. Please stand for the pledge of >> living to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Roll call, please. Lori. >> Chairman Eton, >> here. Vice Chairman Childs >> here. >> Secretary Grant >> here. >> Member FA >> here.
>> Member Grod. >> Member Scully >> here. >> Member Gallen >> here. Alternate member Sidler >> here. >> Alternate member Troutman >> here. >> We do have a quorum. Um with that, we'll
move on to approval of the minutes of October 8th. Does anyone on the commission have any comments or changes? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as written. >> I second. >> Um moved and seconded. All in favor say
I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Okay. Passes unanimously. Um we do not have a city attorney present this evening, but I will be happy to provide the quasi judicial uh procedures. >> Thank you for volunteering.
Uh Christy Christy Anderson, senior planner. Um during the public hearing portion of this meeting, anyone wishing to speak on a quasi judicial item must first sign a public hearing agenda card and sign the oath contained herein. These cards are located on the table in
the back of the council chamber. Those speaking in favor of the request will be heard first. Those opposed will be heard second, and those who wish to make a public comment on this item will speak third. The applicant may make a brief rebuttal if necessary. Witnesses may be cross-examined by the applicant,
council, staff, representatives, and such other representatives as authorized by the council or commission. If you have photographs, sketches, or documents that you designed for city for the commission to consider, they must be submitted into evidence and will be retained by the city. Please submit such
exhibits to the city clerk. Uh, please confirm the following. City clerk, have all persons wishing to speak before the city before the commission signed an oath card? Yes. Is there anyone present who has not signed an oath card that wishes to speak on a
quasi judicial item? If so, please submit a card at this time. City clerk, have all agenda items been properly advertised? Yes. Have any commission members visited uh any of the in visited the site or spoken to any members of the public regarding
an item to be reviewed? >> No. In the event that a member has re well I don't think I need to read that but in event the member has received expporte communication verbal or written the identity of person who uh whom the comm communication took place and the subject
of communication must be disclosed including opinions facts discussed any written communication must be made part of the record site visits must also be disclosed. >> Thank you. >> All right. Next item on the agenda is
petitions and requests from the public present. This is our first of two opportunities for anyone here to speak. You do not have to fill out a card for this. if you've got anything to speak about that's not uh an agenda item.
Anyone? Uh my name is Stan Jonathan and uh I'm not very popular. Would you hand out that pink thing? That's what this is about. that uh today I went to uh a church
breakfast and at the church breakfast uh we had a a time for uh uh talking about what we're supposed to do and our prayer requests and prayer satisfied. So I had some uh prayer satisfied. I had uh eye
surgery very successful and I went to the doctor about my feet. I know some of y'all been watching me just waddle around sometimes with a cane. That's a good thing. I also had a prayer request. I was requesting for help in my u
mission to oppose city corruption in the area of engineering and I'm in the area of engineering uh registered civil engineer. Did everyone get it on pink card? Okay. And uh uh there's some
I don't get paid for this and it's it's disappointing that I have to well actually what you guys are seeing is is a lot of horrible things. One of the things I I put on this card is um water flows downhill.
It's a serious matter that the city violates repeatedly again and again and again. How does the city do it? The city has built dams. They don't they don't show what the dam floods and they take
private property against the constitution. City has firm maps done, FEMO maps done. They know they're wrong. And so what do they do? They destroy them. If you don't believe they're not there, ask the city for 1989 firm maps which
cover a lot of projects here in the city of Titusville. Another thing is is the um 1966 storm water master plan that says that we're supposed to have
easements and maintenance of drainage to the outfalls which are outside of the county limits. We have a big thing that says that it's supposed to be done. It's not done. numerous ditches are blocked.
You can see them if you I've I've reported them to the city. No response. As far as I'm concerned is that I think that we should get rid of some of the council members, four out of five of them for what they're doing, you know. And how do they get rid of it?
I'm a professional engineer. You will have no professional engineer oppose what I say because they know I know I'll take it to the board. So you have people like this person, other people, non-professionals say that I'm wrong, but no professional engineers. Thank
you. >> Thank you. No problem. >> Does anyone else care to speak? >> Uh seeing none, we'll move on the agenda. Um we have no old business and
under new business, we have item 9A, staff. Good evening. Um, this is smallcale amendment application number 2-2024 State Road 405 in Singleton Avenue PD South.
This application may look familiar to some of you. Um, it was presented to the this commission on September 18th, 2024. However, however, was subsequently with withdrawn at the city council hearing. The proposal that you're hearing that you're being presented today remains unchanged with the exception of an
updated traffic study provided on 141 of your packets and uh storm water and flood plane due diligence uh memo provided on page 294. At that time um the planning and zoning commission approved the comp plan amendment unanimously and re the
resoning and master plan was approved by a vote of four to three with the following recommended conditions. uh building height no greater than 40 feet and uh number two allow the Forest Hill Baptist Church to access their property
uh to access their proposed driveway at Singleton Avenue intersection if possible. Um as an update uh on October 19th, the Forest Hill Baptist Church uh sent an email which I believe was forwarded to you in support of uh uh gaining a cross access uh between the
applicant's property and the driveway to the church parking lot. Um some of the reasons for denial um uh at that time were due to flooding concerns uh the proposed residential density and low water pressure.
Um a hard copy of the revised resoning ordinance has been provided to you. Um errors were found after the packets were sent out. Changes include references to uh sketch plat process which is we no longer have uh due to state law changes. Um and then also uh the minimum lot
width of 20 ft was also added to the standards. Um that is consistent with the master plan. Um out of abundance of caution, I just wanted to add that in there to make sure there wasn't going to be any discrepancies because if a standard is not listed, it will revert to the R2 standards, which is a minimum
of 24 feet, which would not be consistent with their master plan. So they're basically just revisions and uh scrier error corrections. The applicant is requesting to amend the property uh to the city's lowdensity residential and conservation future land
use designations and reszone to the plan development PD uh zoning district with master plan. The applicant is requesting a smallcale comprehensive plan amendment with a reszoning on approximately 66.49 acres for purposes of constructing a town home community with residential
amenities. Uh it would consist of uh 62 individually platted town home units. The parcels are vacant woodlands and currently have future land use designations of lowdensity residential and conservation and have general use and open space recreational uh zoning
designations. The 66.49 acre property includes approximately 50.69 69 acres of wetlands and has approximately 15.7 acres of developable land in which 5.5 acres of parks and open space are
proposed. The development has been designed to preserve the existing wetland areas and pro and proposes no wetland impacts. The proposed PD ordinance uh limits uses on the property to 62 town homes with a minimum living area of 800 square feet with supporting
infrastructure, site improvements, including vehicular access, sidewalks, landscaping, utilities, on-site storm water management facilities, and common recreational amenities. The proposed master plan has been provided on page 61 of your packets.
City utilities are available to serve the property and the preliminary concurrency assessment found sufficient capacity for the proposed development and will not exceed the standard level of service. Staff has found that the comprehensive plan future land use small-cale map
amendment is consistent with the city's comprehensive plan and the south street small area plan. The resoning master plan and conditions of approval are consistent with the proposed land use amendment, the city's comprehensive plan and the land development regulations.
Staff uh recommends the approval of the comprehensive plan future map amendment and PD resoning with master plan with the following conditions of approval as described in the resoning ordinance. Uh, one being a final recreational plan shall be submitted with the sketch plat
that illustrates the proposed recreational amenities including interconnected stabilized sidewalks, walking trails uh, within the open space area and conforms and conforms with the minimum required open space acreage. Number two, wetlands uh, one, two, and
three uh, and wetland buffer shall be prefer preserved with the submitt of the plat. The developer shall work with the city to adjust the layout of the master plan to achieve the preservation of upland scrubs, pines, and oaks where feasible. Heritage trees should to the
extent possible be preserved with the smidd of the plat. Number four, buildings may be relocated or rearranged outside of the required landscape buffers within the area identified uh as a developable acreage as stated in condition 1.7 of the ordinance and as
illustrated in the master plan exhibit B. Um and then final number five, direct impacts to wetlands will require an amendment to the plan development uh ordinance and master plan, which would require the applicant coming back to you
uh to revise uh the master plan. And I'd be happy to answer any questions you have from staff at this time. >> All right, I'll bring it back to the commission. Anyone up here have any comments or questions of staff before we
open the public hearing and hear from the applicant? >> Member Grant. >> Uh could you u tell me a little bit more about this um access extension that the Forest Hills Baptist Church is requesting?
>> Yes. So, their existing driveway is offset from from South from North Singleton. Um, so once they install the new access point for this development, it will be very close to their existing driveway. >> Okay. So, eliminating uh an access point
off of 4405 and and creating a cross access from the church parking lot to the applicant's driveway and eliminating the driveway for the church. >> The applicant agrees with this. >> They have uh offered no objections to
this. >> Thank you, >> Vice Chairman Childs. the um the memorandum um about uh the storm water and flood plane due diligence. Um it
doesn't seem uh very like specific. It seems like that it just kind of goes over um what our comprehensive plan and stuff and land use um regulations require. But um
is would the would the full plan of that be with on the on the site plan the master or whatever the final? >> Yes. All of the storm water engineering will be required for the site plan. Um the memorandum I believe was provided by
the applicant to um kind of um provide additional information to the general public uh for the project at this stage on what they will be up against when they have to uh submit for mitigation and all of the other regulatory agencies
that they'll have to go go through to um achieve uh the the storm water uh on the project >> because there's not like a full plan right now. So, right. >> Correct. I I believe the applicant can probably provide you with additional information. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> A member Seedler. >> Thank you. I read that um reclaimed water service is not available in this area. Is that that is correct. Um so, uh if the applicant chose to use potable water, it would be very expensive. They
could explore um utilizing wells possibly to irrigate the landscaping. Have they offered an alternate method of irrigation or anything of that nature? >> Um, not not at this time, but they might
have additional um information regarding some strategies for that. >> Okay. And so that the burden of the irrigation then if it's the potable water that that comes from the city of Titusville. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you. and they are I think
believe on a different fee schedule. Um I'm just I just know it's very expensive. So typically they avoid avoid uh you know irrigation with the potable water. So typically wells and things are explored uh for that purpose. >> Okay. I have a few questions. So if
everybody else is done, can I just keep going? Okay. Thank you. Um there's also um there wasn't a market demand analysis on this. they one was not provided. So, how was 800 square feet determined to be in demand?
>> Um, that is correct. One was not provided by the applicant. Um, the 800 is is a a minimum square footage for our residential multif family. Um and the applicant may speak on their you
know proposed plan um on how they would like to move forward with uh you know the availability of the specific type of unit that they're going to provide and the square footage um based on market demands um through
their analysis that they have done but they have not provided one to the So, have we looked at the market demand? So, these are 800 square ft town homes that are connected. So, the market demand right now in Titusville, >> that would be the minimum. So, they they
could exceed that if needed. >> Okay. And then u one other thing until everyone starts speaking about 76% of this site is um conservative land wet land >> and once it's developed
the responsibility of maintaining this wetland and all the preservation that falls onto the homeowners association. >> Yes, that would be correct. >> That's what this says. So do we have a cost analysis? How much does it cost to maintain a wetland? Is there a plan on
that we hand or that the developer hands to the HOA that tells them and do they budget for this or is this >> I I do not have that information. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Welcome facing. >> Hi. Um I remember this property from
before and I think that they had uh one of the buildings was shorter than the others. There was one on the end was was shorter. Is that correct? >> Yes. I believe that they're proposing lot widths minimum of 20 feet and some of them are 30 feet for and I believe that the
>> correct >> but building heights I think they had one that on the end was shorter >> I I believe that they're proposing a maximum building height of 50 feet. I don't recall seeing uh I >> because I I I guess because what my
question was going to be was what's different between this and what they proposed from before and that's what I will >> that there's no change to that. So the only change is that they have uh submitted an updated traffic study. This traffic study previously included both of the projects. Um they had proposed
another project across um 405 and the traffic study had included both. So, um, in addition to the time that has lapsed, they also revised the traffic study to include this project only. Um, in addition to that due diligence memo that was provided, but they have not made any
changes to the proposed plans or or um configurations of the the town homes. >> Thank you, >> member Sid. >> Thank you. There was also reference to some flooding in a neighborhood or surrounding areas. Have we looked into
that flooding or is there any remediation that was it was referred to in this study? >> Um I mean the applicant is probably better at speaking on on that but they are aware of the issues that have um
been brought up previously. >> All right. Anyone have anything else before I open the public hearing? Uh, seeing none, I will open a public hearing. And um, >> our first card, Lori, the applicant >> would be the applicant.
>> Good evening. My name is Anna Long. I'm an attorney with the law firm of Dean Meade located in Orlando, Florida, 420 South Orange Avenue, Sweet 700. I'm here on behalf of the applicant. Um along with me is the applicant representative, the
developer representative rather, as well as our engineering team. We have the project engineer here, a storm water engineer and a traffic engineer. So the last time we were before you, there were some issues here raised that have all been addressed and that was your
recommendations before we went to the city council um excuse me, city commission. And at that meeting, additional um conditions were going to be placed. There was some significant opposition from some of the residents
and those included uh wanting a more robust um answer as to the traffic issues. At that point in time, we had not completed thoroughly that traffic study. That has been done. We have that information. We presented it to the folks at a community meeting.
Additionally, storm water was of concern. We requested and received and there's copies that will be handed out by the lead engineer uh from the water management district the process for determining what the retention must be before and after and how that will be
met uh during the permitting process or the project won't be permitted. So that's addressed as well. Um and then finally one of the questions was of density and 66 were number of the towns at that time it's down to 62. Um the
setbacks have all been maintained. Um in answer to uh the question over here as to once what once the development uh is turned over to the HOA then how are those wetlands maintained? The wetlands have to be maintained in accordance with the permit and that happens with the
storm water system as well. So part of the dues uh that are paid by those that live in uh subdivisions or locations in which there are wetlands, if there's ongoing active maintenance, then that's where that money comes from. But
typically, wetlands that are set aside in preservation are maintained simply by staying away from them. They're posted with signage do not encroach. You can't go in and mow them. you can't impact them with any type of development um
beyond what was asked for and approved during the permitting process. So um at this time I would respectfully request uh time to remain for us to answer any questions that might come up from yourselves or the general public might raise when they're up here. And if
that's okay with you then I' in order of time respecting yours I'd like to allow for the engineers to come up. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Kyle Cosby. I'm a civil engineer for the project. I'm a professional engineer and license licensed in Florida. Um I work with
Kelly Horn and I'm a representative the applicant for this matter. Um my office address is 7341 office Park Place uh Melbourne, Florida. Um I've got a short presentation I want to go over with you guys about this project. Um, what I'm going to do is
just going to give you a brief overview of the project, highlight some of the project, and then we'll go talk about storm water and then traffic because those are the main concerns that you guys had and the public had the last go around. So, why are we here? We're seeking approval to basically rearrange the
existing to rearrange the existing um land use that are already set on the property. The property is is has a land use designation of low density residential and conservation. We're rearranging that land use and then we're reszoning to a plan development.
Um all right. So this is the plan. This is the master plan for the project. Um the subject property is located south of uh State Road 405 in Singleton. Um we're proposing two um drive connections. Um
the west one we're aligning with Singleton and then there's the east one shown there. We're proposing 62 town home units and um as you can see here the majority of the site is a is a wetland
majority of the site is is wetland area. Um the project overall site is 66 and a half acres. Um we're basically have a developable acreage of 15 plus or minus and um we are not touching the wetlands on site. We're keeping them intact and
preserved. So all that white that you see besides in the middle that's the church property but you can see the the wetland those are the wetlands identified. Um so this this project's going to have 62 tunnel units and associated infrastructure the boring
stuff like storm water utilities but it's also going to have proposed amenities recreational amenities. It's going to have outdoor workout equipment a tot lot. It's going to have walking trails with benches overlooking the conservation areas. um just to name a few.
So, all right. So, the project meets and exceeds the city's PD code requirements. Um the project is again, I want to reiterate, we're just keeping the existing land use designations. We're just rearranging it and actually benefiting and increasing the conservation area that's being
dedicated. So, the the project results in a net increase of about 10 acres of conservation to be dedicated in the land use. Um, we're not proposing any on-site wetland impacts. Um, and that's all I got here. And then now
we're going to talk about storm water. I'm going to have my colleague Karen come up here to speak about the storm water. Um, and I'm going to pass out packets that we got from St. John's River Water Management District that Anna referenced earlier in her presentation. >> Excuse me. Quick question. Yes.
>> Did you say that you are with Kimberly Horn? >> Kimberly Horn. Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah, of course. >> I have a question first. Um, how would you address the um request from Forest Hills Baptist Church about the access >> the cross access to grant it? We're
going to grant the cross access for our drive to allow them to >> exactly how would Could you show is it possible you could show us how that would uh where that would be? >> Yeah. So, we don't have their property shown, right? But there'll be a portion there'll be a cross- access easement on
that uh west drive >> that they can connect to. >> Okay. >> On that west drive that they can connect to and they'll have access to utilize that for for access to the site to their site and out of their site >> and that would satisfy their concerns. >> Yes, that provides them with the cross
access. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? Um do the and when we uh approve this before we put a condition of 40 feet on >> uh but you're doing u the the code says
50. Do you know what the building height of what you're going to be building there is? Does it exceed the 40 ft? I >> I don't have any information on the height. I know that we set the maximum height based on code and but we're agreeable for to the 40 foot. >> You're agreeable to the 40. Okay, great.
Thank you. Good evening. Uh, I'm Karen Toyer. I'm the storm water engineer on the project and I'll go over the pre preliminary design of the storm water network for the proposed project.
So, as Kyle and Anna um referred to earlier, we listened to the concerns of the residents of existing flooding and we provided a memo to the city uh explaining the existing drainage patterns in the area to show what's that
we have the understanding of what's going on in the wetlands right now, the lowlying areas, and how our proposed development will detain the the storm water runoff on site in order to not impact the existing drainage pattern. concerns. So our preliminary design because it is very preliminary at this
moment um is based on routing the all the storm water runoff from the proposed development to the dry detention ponds which are actually sitting um on a ridge. So we are not affecting the existing storage of the area like Kyle mentioned the the wetlands are not being
touched and th that's actually what's serving as the main flood plane storage for the surrounding basin and the surrounding area. Um, so our preliminary design is based on complying with the requirements of St. John's River Water Management District and the city of Titusville and the county as applicable.
Um, so as you can see on this slide, I know there's a lot of words on there, but um, what it's basically saying is it's referring to the exact municipal code and St. John's River Water Management Manual that we have to comply with and follow. Um the letter that Kyle
just uh passed out is from the district itself and it in general refers to the requirements that I will talk about a little bit more uh that we have to comply with. So the slide also says that we are required to submit the drainage report. I think it was mentioned earlier
we are required to submit a drainage report to both the city and the St. Johns River Water Management District to show that our analysis and our design comply with their requirements. They then have the ability to review, provide comments, and we respond to those
comments before any approval for permits is addressed. So, these next two sites go into the actual requirements. So, this one focuses on the city of Titusville uh requirements, and you'll see overlap between this and the St. John's river
water management requirements as stated in the letter they focus on um requiring that the the total volume the peak discharge rate and the water quality that uh that we may discharge from the
site does not um impact any of the existing drainage patterns or the existing water quality and we have to comply by that. Um so you can see here it talks about the specific storm events that we have to design for and to maintain that um existing uh like I said
volume and peak discharge from existing conditions in order to not impact um the existing drainage patterns that we included in that memo. Uh that last bullet point is about the water quality. So treatment requirements saying that we can't exceed the rate of pollutant
discharge um from existing conditions. This then goes into the St. John's River Water Management District requirements which are similar. So it talks about um not exceeding the peak rate of discharge for the 25 year 24hour storm. Um and
then specific basing criteria for the 10 year and 25 year frequency storms. Are there any questions on that? >> Yes. >> Face. >> All right. So I I I I saw the the the 25-y year 24h hour and then the 100y
year 25 uh 24-hour then it's seen a 10 year and a 25 year frequency. All right. So in relative terms as far as recently, right? So when is the last time we've had a 25-y year 24-hour storm? So that we so that the residents knows what that
looks like. So, when is the last time that we've had a 25-y year, 24-hour storm that we can say, okay, this hurricane or that that storm there produced this much water? >> I don't have that specific information of like when that occurred, but the
25-year storm has a 25% chance of happening each year probability wise. >> Okay, >> so 100red year has a 1% chance of happening. Um, it doesn't mean it's going to happen once. It doesn't. It's just a probability based on historical
data patterns that >> Yes. So, so the reason that the reason why I ask that question is because we've had it, right? So, so we so we've had these 24 25 year 24-hour storms. We've also had in our lifetime um even though it's 1% chance, right? We've had it a
100-year 24-hour storm. And so, um those are just numbers, right? But to people that's that's an actual real life thing that happens. in then that water comes in and then becomes water intrusion which becomes mold and it it causes a problem. So without knowing kind of
having an idea of what that looks like um when you build it and then you tell me hey yeah this can hold it and then next year we have it and then and then it doesn't then that's a problem. And so the question was what kind of storm does that look like? That's why I asked that question what's it look like right? And
then um and I I don't want to say that you guys aren't going to build it because I know that you will. I I I have all the faith in the world that you're going to build to hold that water, but the problem comes in is when it doesn't. And there's going to come a time that it won't. And
then when it doesn't and it won't, it's going to impact people's homes. >> Yes. So we go by the requirements. So we, like you said, we will design for what's required. if that's the 25ear storm. um we base it off of that
historical data and data locally um from the district and from Noah which is a little bit more national but also localized um to ensure that we're getting the most updated data to size it to that um when a bigger storm arises we
still have you know um protection like design like for example if it's going to if if we're designing the spillway of the pond the point is to be like okay if this is if this will overflow. We have it controlled. We know where it's going, where that overflow is
going. We're not sending it out to the road, for example. Um, and we have that wetland um area. But the point is that we are meeting the requirements from the district and the city and that's what our design has to meet in order to get a permit.
>> And I understand and and I do appreciate meeting the design. And and I guess the other part of what I was kind of thinking, right, is that if you guys have a retention pond that let's say that's five feet, a five foot retention pond will meet a 100year 24-hour storm, right? And you say, you know what, for
these people, we're going to make it seven feet. It's two extra feet. And it gives them a little bit of extra that we understand what you guys are going through and we've met the standard because sometimes we can meet the standard or we can also exceed the standard. Yes. And I I think that kind of makes residents feel a little bit
better when we just simply just go a little bit above what the standard is. >> Yes. And there's also freeboard requirements and we can look into that capacity analysis because it's preliminary. We have uh like separated out the area that we know we will need for that. That doesn't mean that we just
looked at the area, you know, specifically for the 25-year storm. There's a chance to have that additional freeboard as need. >> And again, we can't make that mandatory. We we cannot. You know what I'm saying? But I'm just saying for but for the residents, they may like the fact that you guys thought about them in that little in that little bit of a way.
>> Yeah. We also do a a deep analysis when the design um step comes and we look at all of that and you know what makes sense in order to to meet the requirements and ex like where we can exceed them. >> All right. Thank you.
>> Member Chapman. >> Yeah. to kind of um piggy back off of Mr. Face on here. Um my background is inspections and and industrial inspections and things of that nature. So my uh biggest concerns
are the water retention ponds. You you have on here a um an elevator station, I believe, right? >> Sorry, what? >> I'm sorry. >> A lift station. >> Like an elevator station, right? for is that that that's mainly used for like water and pumping that out.
>> Waste water. Okay. So, it's for waste water. Okay. Then that changes that. Then what what redundancies do we have on this wastewater uh elevator station? So, I know that um normally you you uh show out like your plan of the
wastewater, the piping, any if any discharge would come out of that, like how y'all are retaining that? Y'all have anything showing that? >> Microphone. >> Yeah, I was saying. >> So, the lift station is going to be um determined based on the finished floor.
Our lift station has to be at least at minimum finished floor elevation. We don't want the lift station flood obviously. Right. >> Right. Exactly. >> That's not seen lift stations flood. And that's why I'm curious how where we're at with that. Yeah. So, >> I don't see any drawings or anything on that lift station on how that's going to be built yet. I assume that's in the engineering packet,
>> correct? That's going to be in the engineering packet after the stage once you get through this process, that's when we submit detailed plans and drawings and lift station calculations and show you where that elevation is going to be at. >> Okay. And then also, still to piggyback off of Mr. Face on the the water retention ponds, do y'all have any kind
of uh visuals that show that water of if it were to overflow where it would go? Anything of that nature? like directions that like it's gonna impact people or so so that we can see where that's going so we know where to mitigate I guess those
areas uh Mr. Fan two extra feet or so whatever. Yeah. So on at the end of the presentation um there's a couple exhibits in those exhibits there's a pre-development storm water analysis shows where the flow goes and it shows a post development where the flow is going
to go just high level >> and I know that's on our presentation I assume is that uh available for the public so they can see all these uh flow >> correct yep it's been submitted this presentation has been submitted to the city so it's all public record
Just one quick thing on on that. Um >> so the point here is like I said the requirement is to not exceed any of the existing volume the peak discharge rate all of that. So when we are designing these ponds um it's capturing that
additional runoff from that imperous area that we may be providing due to the new road or any or sidewalks or anything like that. So be because they overflow at some point in some sort in some high
intensity storm that um the requirements don't include it doesn't mean that it it doesn't always mean that it's additional water to what would be an existing conditions because we are still detaining that original volume.
Vice Chairman Child, >> um I was in a meeting recently with state rep Traymont and he was getting, you know, just um questioned over and over about flooding and he used to be a city council member in Valuchia County
and um one of the things he said was, you know, um it used to be that we didn't really build storm ponds and we didn't really take into consideration when the older houses were built. So just to the south of your development are houses that were built in the 50s.
And I started thinking about this when he said that, you know, thinking like, well, you he said, you know, the new developments, they have to capture all the water that's that that drops on their property. That's what they're responsible for. And I thought, you know, that kind of made sense. But then
you know when you're when you've had a house that's been there since 1950 something and um the water when when they built of course they built some impervious you know things on the property but they built it and it was probably dry you know back then they
didn't you know you know transform the the area that much so besides putting impervious stuff on there. So they um they're used to, you know, over 75 years, 70 years um of the water going from their development over into where
you're going to build. And so my question is um and my concern is then um I I think it's still a responsibility of whoever's building something new that's been you know next to a a property for
so long that you take in consideration the water that you're getting from other properties already. So is does your plan take that into consideration that the water that you're getting that's coming from other properties onto your property now? >> Yes. So, one of the requirements in that
district letter is to consider all of that off-site water and runoff coming in. So in existing conditions if that's something that is coming in and and being gathered in that area we have to analyze that in in our in like our
detailed analysis models and basically we examine existing conditions and the existing conditions discharge rate and volume in whatever its realistic uh characteristic is currently. So we look at offsite bas and if it's getting any
runoff from the road for example um um it it's it is placed on a ridge so it might not you know it's not the the main um storage area of that of that area but we definitely look at everything surrounding that. That's not something that we want to miss because yeah we
want to make sure that we're accounting for the water that's passing through as well in our analysis. And then in proposed conditions, we're still looking at the realistic existing condition and making sure that the proposed is not um impacting that. >> So that's something that you will be
doing or that's something you have done already. >> We will be doing >> will be doing. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Member FA. >> And and last question. So, because I I hate to kind of beat this horse up a little bit and and you did a great job of explaining holding that water and
even if it does have some some overflow that it shouldn't be at a rate greater than what it would be without that retention. And so my question would be um are are there any other low impact development that you guys are doing to kind of help the areas that aren't um
ponds? So like like you know pvious roadways or or something in the ground. I I don't know what kind of techniques developers can use to assist in other groundwater being absorbed outside of those retention ponds just to kind of help alleviate because you guys are surrounded by wetlands and so there's
not a lot of water that can go that way and it's not a whole lot that can even soak into the ground where you're at but every little bit helps because of the as you mentioned the impervious structures that's going to be there. So, have you guys thought about that or has that is that even part of it or just build the
retention ponds and let that be that and keep moving? >> Um, it's something that it does happen in more detailed design, the evaluation of whether that makes sense. You know, pvious pavement doesn't always work. Um, so that is something we look at and and
I believe the city has an L manual that we can refer to as well, but that that goes into when we're in more detailed design. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Good evening. Uh my name is uh Manny Rodriguez also with Kimley Horn. I am the traffic engineer. Um so going to talk a little bit about the transportation impact analysis or most commonly known TIA. Um, just want to start off by it's been a couple years since the that previous study that
included the north and the south. So, uh, we need to use the latest and greatest counts. Um, so we if it's longer than a year, we need to redo the TI. That's the reason we need to we kind of redid the TIA. Um, and to start off, um, it was performed in accordance with city guidelines and also uh, FDOT
standards as well being on a state 45, right? We need to meet FDOT criteria when we analyze this study. The TIA includes uh two main things. The first one is the uh uh smallcale future land use amendment uh looking at the traffic impact uh the change of that land use
and also the uh capacity and intersection analysis right looking at if the segment can hold the traffic and also how the intersections are operating. Before we start this process we we met with staff um had some methodology discussion making sure that we're all in agreement with the steps that we're going to take very consistent
with the previous TIA. So, not a whole lot of changes. Um, and the TIA has been reviewed by staff and all the comments have been addressed as well. Um, I do want to point out again being on a state road, DOT would review our TIA. Um, they will be making any requirements if any
uh based on our findings, right? So, we'll get kind of double review from the city both and FDOT. Um, and tugging on the the first item, right, the future land use amendment. uh we compare the existing future land use designation with its LDR uh which
currently allow for the 164 billion units u and the proposed uh PUD um it's cap at 62 so overall there's a a reduction in the trip generation potential of of the site right um if we want to go to the numbers on the PMP car
we're reducing the number of trips that it could generate by 120 right so from a future land use perspective it's a it's it's it's positive right that's what we want. We wanted it to reduce less strips, less impact. That's good. Um so there's really no no change in the um
there's no additional impact on as a result of the of the change in use. Um and the second option uh second uh analysis right the capacity in our second analysis we we look at the se segments we took new counts uh we include the background volume or any
future developments in the area. Uh the north parcel is included uh in the future volumes uh that we generated. Um and all the segments and intersections do operate within their acceptable uh do operate within the um level of
service. Um so they do not exceed that level of service uh standard based on their guidelines. Um and same with the its capacity, right? It's operating below its capacity. So the volumes that we're uh anticipating in the future by 2028 uh they don't exceed that capacity.
Right. So what we're well below the capacity uh for both the intersections and the segments. Um in addition to the intersections, we also looked uh the need for turn lanes at our two project driveways. Um we looked at the FD we used the FDOT uh standards and
thresholds. U the NCHRP report 457 a little bit technical there but u based on the volume that's on 405 and entering the site those turnings are not warrant there we don't we don't need those left turns uh to enter our site yet based on based on the volumes um and that's
really a summary uh uh from the TIA um but overall there are no deficiencies there's no impact um and I'm happy to answer any questions that y'all may member faced on the volume of this four-way stop that you guys are going to create, there's no
need for a turn lane. Did I Did I hear that correctly? >> Uh for the project driveway, uh turn lanes going in. Uh that is correct. >> Okay. >> So, a dedicated right, dedicated left. We don't meet that threshold to install a a turn lane. Correct. So that's coming
into the property off the property. Correct. >> And so what we're saying is and so my point was at swway cross where there is a already a turn lane going left going up going going north. Right. But your property is going to be going south >> and you're saying there's no need for a turn lane to go south into your
property. >> Correct. >> Correct. Okay. Um have you been to that that intersection that you plan on proposing? >> I am familiar with the area. Um yes. I actually worked on the city's multimmoal master plan back in the day. >> That's another question I'm gonna ask
later on. I'm glad you brought it up. Um, okay. And but and you've had done a new traffic study post the construction that's on there now in addition to whatever future construction that
they're extending down that 405. >> And so there's still no need for a turn. >> That that is correct. Uh we are aware that there are some plans to widening 405. Uh but our understanding is that that's still in the planning phase and there's really no no it's not in design or construction yet. So that that we
don't know when that might happen. Um but um we know that by 2028 it's it's not anticipated to be constructed. Right. So by project buildout we don't we don't foresee the need for turn lanes going into our site. Well, maybe from I don't know, maybe
just for me from a safety perspective that seems very unsafe. >> I I I understand uh your concern and we we looked at the volume. So, to put some numbers, there is no movement. Um we're
not adding no more than 10 vehicles per hour at any given movement at the intersections that we're analyzing. So our 62 dwelling unit uh development only generates uh 34 trips in the PM peak hour, right? So when we assign those
trips to the driveways, we see either nine or left coming into our site, right? So within an hour, uh you're you're seeing very little trips coming into our site. >> Well, no. So, so my thought process is as as a car is going to make a left-hand
turn, people usually hit the gas pedal right after that point and in front of that car making a left-hand turn going going north is a car now slowing down making a right-hand turn. That the car that's behind the one be behind it didn't see coming. And as he has his gas pedal to zoom around that car making a
left-hand turn, smack right into that car making that righthand turn onto your property that you say that you didn't foresee happening. >> Right. So, no, I I I I I understand your concern and DOT would also look at our driveway and if they believe that a turn is needed, uh, we can install it.
There's actually space out there to put a left turn lane is uh it's just pavement marking. So, in the event if if DOT requires us to put a left turn lane, that would be a fairly straightforward solution. >> Well, I I hope for the safety of your future residents, right? Because I know that you guys just want to build a
building and get out of there, right? But for the people that's going to live there, hopefully for their safety, you may consider that this particular intersection after putting a four-way stop there may need a turn lane at least left into the property. We can't make
you do it, but I mean, just got to think about the safety of the people making that turn at that intersection. >> Understood. Oh, and to clarify, it it won't be a four-way stop. I didn't say four-way stop. It's a four-way intersection. >> Oh, okay. Sorry. >> Which makes it even more dangerous to
not have a turn lane. You know what I mean? It's a four-way intersection of people flying down that road on a curve with a turn and you're not giving your residents a turn lane because you say the volume of of numbers of trips doesn't warrant it. But yet, we're not
talking about the safety of the people on the road that are going to be going in and out of that property that you just built. And you're saying that their safety doesn't warrant a turnway. That bothers me. Does it make sense to you? I mean, imagine if you were the one in that making that righthand turn and that some idiot like me, I'm the idiot,
right? It's me. Somebody turned. I had this big old truck make this left-hand turn and I shoot on the gas pedal and I smack you and your family because I was driving like I was driving like an idiot and because you didn't put a turn lane there. >> No, I I understand. Yeah, we'll we'll we'll take that into account for sure.
>> Okay. But but but since you mentioned working and and this is for staff. Um again another Kimberly Horn product. Um how many of how how many of these regulations that pertain to this
property has Kimberly Horn worked on? >> I can't I can't answer that question. >> That would be interesting to know. You know what I mean? like Tim Horn as a as a as a consultant to the city of Titusville has worked on a number of our of our reg of our regulations and yet
here we are because one of the the overwhelming themes that I'm hearing right now is it meets the regulation and as a former military man I really hate that right because that's just the minimum right we've met the minimum standard wow we've met the minimum stand and I keep hearing it over and over and
over again that I that we've meet the regulation well it's a regulation that Kimberly Horn also had a hand in writing and my residents of city of Titusville has to live under these regulations that benefit not them.
But I appreciate you. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So, uh I've got a question and whether you answer or staff. Uh should do decide that there should be a turn
lane there. I I've looked and like you say, it's just a pain. It's when they did the construction within the past couple years, they widened that intersection and and what would where the turn lane would be is just a bunch of yellow lines where it's, you know,
blocked off or a painted median, whatever you want to call it. So, putting a turn lane in there is a fairly simple thing, just removing that paint and and changing the line scheme. Is that a DOT decision? And is it done by
expense of DOT or is that the developer or how's that work? >> That would be the DOT that's there right away. They would be permitting that. >> So, and they'll make the decision whether it's necessary. Correct. >> Okay. All right. Is that the conclude your
applicant's part of the presentation? I think we're done with our questions up here. I guess I just want to make before the public does come up, I wanted to make you all aware that all of the exhibits that were in your packet or are being shared or have been shared and the
information here this evening was shared at a community meeting with all of those in attendance. We offered for anyone in attendance to provide their email and then the report from the community meeting that's required to be submitted to city staff was also offered to be shared with them as well.
>> I have a I have a housekeeping thing for you on your on the application and actually throughout a lot of the stuff. There's a weird there's a weird mistake that's that happens over and over. The Singleton Avenue 44 acre trust, it says
that it's an LLC, but it's not an LLC. It's just it's just a land trust and the it looks like the LLC that's in care of Esquire Trustee Service L is an LLC, but over and over like on lots of the
documents it says Singleton Avenue 44 acre trust LLC, which it is not an LLC um which is actually um you know against uh Florida statute
to Okay. Represented as an >> I will make sure that we go through all of the documents and correct them as they need to be and before we get to the next case. >> One of the one of them has New York as a state instead of Florida. But I'm just it's just it was I was just looking at
the LLC thing and I was looking at just doing some random stuff and I noticed that it wasn't LLC and then I noticed the other state thing but >> I got it. Thank you for catching that for us. I apologize.
>> Anything else? Thank you. >> I would ask real quick, uh, I guess with with your question, uh, for staff, what does that change if if information on the application's wrong or anything of that nature? How does that go?
>> Um, I would need to review the the issues. Um, I I do know that this was approved by the city attorney. um not our current city attorney, but our previous um and I do believe um I did have a separate discussion with the
attorney regarding this because it was a little confusing. Um but I I'll have to take a look um and see what the discrepancies actually were um regarding the LLC versus the trust. >> Um I guess that'd be now question back to us or staff. Is that something that
we sit here and and um I guess we still go forward with this or is the application a I'm just ask that's just an asking question. Sorry. >> Yeah, I I would think if the city attorney hasn't had any objection, it's not not our place to deal with the >> I can definitely have it taken a look at
and provided to the the new city attorney for her opinion as well. >> Great. Thank you, Member Siden. >> Thank you. and the market context. Um, when we were looking at the surrounding neighborhoods including Country Club
Heights, Forest Hills Estates, and Serrano Point, those were in the packet that you sent us. Um, can I get clarification on what did these neighborhoods include um any unit similar in size or to form as what's
being proposed? Because a lot of them are single family homes. They're um built a little bit differently. Do they have similar buildings in these neighborhoods? >> I believe I believe most of the adjacent
subdivisions are single family detached. Um however I believe um some of the uh neighbor the neighborhood for um not sure which but there are uh >> manufactured housing as well within
proximity. >> Do we have a price point on these yet? >> Would have to um provide that information. It's too early in the process to provide that kind of information to have even explored it. So, it'll be whatever the
market will bear and the effort is to ensure that it's going to be something that's going to be attractive to the citizens of the area. So, it doesn't make sense to build a product that you then can't turn around and sell. Did you have any more questions? Great.
Thank you. Uh Lauri, we have any cards from the public? >> Yes. Jill Dobson. >> Is this material someone's? >> Sorry. Uh for the AV group, I'd gotten a message that um the stream is still showing the PowerPoint. Um it's not
showing the cameras. There we go. Thank you. Go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. My name is Jill Dobson. I uh live here in Titusville. My husband and I own the adjacent 25 acres of land that includes
the lake to the south boundary of the proposed PD South development and borders wetlands to the west. Our property is designated conservation as is most of the PD south and most of the open properties in this wetlandrich area. According to the future land use
element comprehensive plan policy 1148, negative impacts of the residential land uses on environmentally sensitive areas shall be minimized in Titusville. Conservation areas are environmentally sensitive areas. Please reference the
aerial photo of the lake and the pictures of the flooding that were provided to you. So, everyone here should have those now. I'll be speaking to them. My concerns are the negative impacts that the proposed PD south will have on the environmental sensitive
areas, destruction of large areas of old growth oak forest, the tree, the threat of flooding in existing single family residential properties in country club Heights and Whispering Hills neighborhoods which already experience
flooding. The proposed development master plan exhibit B site places multifamily buildings 50 feet tall, 100 ft wide near the lake and and a detention pond 10 to 20 feet of near the
lakes's edge on a hill or a ridge on a hill that is 25 feet above the surface of the lake. Constructing on this area will be increasing runoff causing erosion and directly across from single
family homes affecting water levels and water quality in the sensitive areas. Further a public health concern and safety concern the conversation lake conservation lake and its west and east
canals shown in the picture. Look above the word conservation at the top and the bottom of the lake. There are canals there. Um those canals and the surrounding designated wetlands and some other lakes are part of a flood control
system stretching from Park Avenue and Heritage Drive through our property bordering multiple neighborhoods to the east and into downtown Titusville. The site plan also indicates a sewer lift station very near the bank of the west dur canal
of the lake. If this station fails, contamination will flow into the flood system that I just discussed, potentially impacting a significant area of Titusville. According to the uh 33-5
plan development standards, applications of PD zoning shall have the burden of demonstrating the proposed PD zoning standards will and will protect health, safety, welfare, and general public to a greater extent. May I continue?
>> How much longer do you have? >> Um, probably one minute. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. to a greater extent than would have been possible pursuant to the standard zoning uh uh set forth in the state in the statute in the article. In
conclusion, reference page 14 of the staff report. The zoning review criteria number seven, substantial reasons why the property cannot be used in the existing zoning district. The staff comments the current
zoning limits. the allowable density to a maximum of 16 single family homes, residential units. There are no substantial reasons why the property cannot be used in the existing zoning districts of general use and open
recreation zoning. SSA 224 requests small-cale amendment and resoning should be denied, not approved. Retain the existing zoning, reduce the 62 units to align to the GU zoning, delay the decision to change this land
use and zoning until after ongoing D feasibility study, the vulnerability study results are available for decision making. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for the >> have any questions? >> Any questions?
>> Member John. Um, so you said that they could go ahead and use the current zoning to build what they want. >> Yep. The 16 units. >> For 16 units, >> not what they want. >> Oh, I I thought you said 60. I was like, that's weird. No, it's fine. It's okay.
No, it is 16. Okay. Thank you. >> And may I also offer, you had some questions that I think this might clarify. It is in your package. >> Am I able to keep speaking for a minute >> or or less? >> Yes. Go ahead. This is in your package.
And what I think is happening is we're talking all past each other a bit. There's a lot of area that you're familiar with and I think others are. And so this is from Kimley Horn. This is in your package. There's areas here that
are not just within this boundary, which is what the review has been addressing so far. That doesn't consider the areas of the neighborhoods built in the 1950s, the wetlands that exist. These are our last significant wetlands. Our drainage
systems were designed to help those neighborhoods when they were built to keep them safe. And that all needs to be looked together rather than trying to assume that the water and the boundaries of this property line are are are
somehow monuments that we cannot assess the entire impact to this large area. So there's a large lake, this lake in the picture, there's drainage canals, there's wetlands, there's everything out there. It's a wilderness right now, if
you will. There is no There is no light. There is no sound there. It's it's quiet and it's it's a it's a open area just like the zoning says to be passed on to our future one >> residents. >> So you you also you gave us pictures of
the flooding. So it's flooding right now. It is. Is there something that >> And it's not a I'm sorry. Go ahead. was when it was built I don't I don't know was that pond I don't know if you know this or not >> but was that lake or that private lake was it supposed to be for the storm
water it was >> and if so then >> has it been flooding for a long time or what what's what's wrong with the current situation right now >> on the property 40 years so what I've experienced I can share >> the design of the system was there the
land was built things were done to continue the growth of that area where it could be built. Over time, the infrastructure has aged 70 years in some cases. So, as those aging infrastructures interact again with the
bigger environment, it's not just the lake or the the the drainage canals that were designed. It's all of that together. The the infrastructure, the amount of rain, when we get rain, how intense it is. These are not hundredyear
or 25 years pictures. Yeah, I'm showing you this week. >> So you'll see that there is a number. It's not just in my neighborhood. That description I said on down across Park Avenue into downtown Titusville. Those neighborhoods to the east are
experiencing significant water now just from summer rains or the events that we have. So not being just to the standard of developing within that boundary line of the PD south
really I I I really wish we could look at that and implement this whole approach that would give you a much better systemic view of what's happening as developments like this occur because the results are down the road like we
see 70 years ago everybody intended to do well, but as infrastructure ages and conditions change, you have to somehow model to that or predict to that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> member FA. >> Any other questions?
>> Oh, this is for me for staff. So, you know, just last week or just in our last meeting, you know, we had that that that report that said that the city of Tusville can can hold more folks and that report was done by who?
Okay. So, so, so there's that. So, the question for this, for staff, is there a regulation that that states how far a lift station can be from freshwater? >> I personally don't have that information, but I have a feeling that
there are standards uh for that. >> Okay. Because that because she brings up a really good point and and we don't want to have a failure, right? And then we have raw sewage going into our water into our waterways. Um, Heidisville has
already had that problem quite a bit and the potential of putting a lift station right next to fresh water I think kind of can create a problem. >> Um, I do know that the that the proposed master plan and the location of the lift station was reviewed by engineering and
they offered no uh issues with the proposed location. So, >> and because my only other thought, my only other problem that I have was that property that built um Garden Street and west of 95 where they proposed a
retention pond in one location, then they moved the retention pond to a different location, thereby causing a ton of flooding um as you exit 95. You know what I mean? And so they can say one thing, but as we've seen in a
property that's already built, they moved it not with city approval, not with and and then now they cause future problems. And the other the only last thing I have to say is and again I don't know and I'm sure that they've planned for this right according to the regulation
written by whoever um that a property isn't supposed to run off isn't supposed to leave their property. Correct. That's correct. >> It's it's supposed to stay within the the bounds of their property. But again, I don't know if they've done that because if anything should
leave that property, go into that lake, it's just going to exacerbate a problem that we already have. But anyway, just wanted to put be on the record that I've said it, you know, that that we want people that's going to take care of our community and not exacerbate problems.
Uh, another card. >> Kay, Kay, Titusville. According to staff report, page 31 of your packet, plan development review criteria to be considered by you includes external
compatibility B. quote, "The proposed development shall not negatively impact any adjacent conservation land." I'm going to read that again. The proposed development shall not negatively impact
any adjacent conservation land. Immediately adjacent to the proposed development is a 25 acre parcel designated conservation land with a 4 acre lake. You have been provided an aerial photograph of the PD south site
and the adjacent large lake to the south. Another aerial photo is on page 129 of your packet. One afternoon recently, I had the privilege of viewing this beautiful pristine lake on conservation land. I was absolutely
amazed with this lovely 6 foot deep 4 acre lake. Currently, huge trees line this lake's northern site. My concern is that the construction of the town homes and particularly the retention pond to the north of this large lake will
degrade this lake on conservation land and may lead to algae blooms. 11 homes on overlook terrace have frontage on this lovely lake. Today when they look from their homes across this lake they see nothing but huge trees. These
residents treasure this lake and in its adjacent woodlands. This will all change with the building of PD South. While the required buffer may retain a few trees, nothing will hide the large retention pond and the 40ft tall town homes
immediately to the north of this lake. Again, plan development review criteria says, quote, "The proposed development shall not negatively impact any adjacent conservation land." Don't you think it likely that the proposed development
will negatively impact the 4 acre lake on adjacent conservation land as well as the 11 residences on this lake? Recommend denial of this SSA and resoning request. Do not let this proposed development negatively impact
the adjacent conservation land. Preserve the uplands around this huge wetland area. keep this all intact to benefit the residents, wildlife, aquafers, and the lagoon. Thank you. Any questions?
>> Member child. I'm sorry. Member face. >> You can go first. I was I have a question for Christie though on this on her point of where it says not negatively impact any adjacent conservation lands and the staff comment doesn't it it just addresses wetlands
um and not conservation which I I know wetlands are conservation but it says no conservation lands but the comment's just about wetlands. Is there is there a reason why it wasn't addressing the whole any conservation
land? >> Um, >> you see what I'm saying? >> I mean, the the wetlands were seen as conservation lands. Um, >> so they're synonymous. Is that what you're saying? That they go they're interchangeable? >> Um,
not necessarily. I mean, there could be tip different types of conservation lands. Um however in the analysis it was seen as it it's not going to I mean they are preserving 76%
uh of the subject site of wetlands. So they're proposing no wetland impacts. Um they're not they're not permitted to impact adjacent lands that are off of their property. So that would in effect not impact the surrounding properties.
Um, >> okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I sorry. >> Was it was just weird because it's like like she said when >> I think they were being analyzed kind of as the same um in in the report. >> Yeah. And I don't know if there's any
other types of conservation lands except for I think you had wetlands the obvious wetlands and then you have things that kind of well the areas around it that drains into the wetlands. So, but um I don't know if they're always technically
wet lands, but still um Okay, thank you. >> Ember face. >> Yeah, this is for the engineer for for Kimberly Horn. So, the question or for the water person. So, how far should a lift station be from a body of water in the state of Florida?
>> Um I I first off want to just put on the record. Is it Mr. B? I would be very cautious of how you address my company in in other situations that are not on this item. Um it's sounding very disparaging to the
company. So I just want to vi advise against against moving forward in that direction. >> Thank you. So how far should a lift station be from body of water? >> Depends on the body of water, >> right? The lift station's going to be at minimum minimum inlet which is going to
be minimum finish floor elevation. So basically your your lift station is going to be at or right at your finished floor of the buildings. So there's no risk. There's limited risk for it to flood out. Right? Now I know that lift stations in the past have overtopped with severe storm events that have
occurred, right? But and I know you hate the word regulations and we have rules to that govern us and that we have to stand by. If you have problems with the legislation, you need to talk to your your council. >> My question is how far from a body of water should a lift station be? That's
the question. Not how high, how far. >> I don't have that information right now. >> Okay. So, a quick Google search says 75 feet. State of Florida says that that a lift station should be 75 ft from a body of water. >> So, my question to you now is, is your current lift station within that 75 foot
perimeter? And again, it could be wrong. We're just asking. I'm just asking. So, is your current lift station right now within that 75 ft? >> I would approximately >> I would I would have to look at it. I would have to look at it. I would say that again this is this is we're kind of putting the cart before the horse here guys like we have this is for a comp
plan reasoning amendment and I want to I want to thank Christine and her team there's a lot of effort that goes that gets put into this process before this project gets presented to you guys at this moment but we still have a long process to go we still have to engineer the site right so what you see now could change could change once you guys see it
again during the preliminary site plan review density could decrease so that storm water pond could get bigger once we do that analysis list station can move. All right. So, all I'm saying is that we're kind of putting the cart before the horse here. Um, and this is just for the approval of the of the comp
plan amendment and the reszoning. >> I know. So, so we do this every week. Um, so you're not the first time to come before us and we ask lots of questions. Do you know why we do that? So, we do that because our residents demand that of us and each of us volunteer our times here and we come up here to speak on
behalf of those residents who we speak for. You know what I mean? So they not they may not agree with me, they may not agree with him, but we speak for our residents because they're not they're not here. And very often organizations, not just yours, but many come into this city and get things passed through and all of a sudden the people that suffer
aren't the ones that make the money and leave. It's ones that stay here and live and live through it, sir. So sometimes there are hard questions and we do that for the residents of the city. I was born and raised here. I love this place. Now I'm sorry if you feel that I'm attacking you, but I'm not. Okay? But
I'm speaking on behalf of the residents of the city of Titusville to make sure that what you leave behind is a great product for everyone. You understand? >> Yeah. And and guess what? Our team is licensed professionals. We will make sure that what we leave behind meets the design intent. >> Not everybody does that. So I'm not I'm
not here to guess your intention, right? But I can tell you that not everyone's here to do that. Not everyone. Okay? And so that happens a lot here. And so because I don't know you, I don't know any I don't know any of you. I've never talked to any of y'all. All right? What I do know is that when you leave, I'll
still be here. >> Understand? >> Yeah. And that's my plans that are that I stamp. So if there's any issues, it's my name on the line as the engineer record. So I take a level of responsibility as well and a level of confidence and integrity in my design. Same with my team. We all, like I said,
there's a lot of work that goes into this. There's a lot of technical things that need to happen. Like I said, staff has their input. This is a long process. We're only on the beginning portion of it. We still have a long way to go. >> All right. I'm telling you that you guys have some faith in us. When we come back, we're guys, we're going to have
all this stuff dressed out and hashed out. >> So, so, so when you're on this side, I do not have to have faith in you. Not at all. Right. You have to present a product that is good for this community. I don't So, so having faith in you could ruin this city. >> The product that we put for you right
here meets all the code guidelines that your city sets. It meets the guidelines. >> Okay. And again, I'm here to ask questions. Okay. Y here to answer. Thank you. Any other questions? >> Member Gallen. >> All right. So, my question is I think
maybe for staff. Um it's about the flooding. Um what is our process right now for when the road in that neighborhood floods like this? What what how does it deflood, if that's a word? >> Um
I mean it depends on certain situations. I I suppose uh I know public works does go out sometimes when there's flooding and they have VAT trucks and things like that, but I I guess it would depend on the type of flooding and and how it happens.
So, with what the residents proposed or what they're saying and then of course what the applicant is saying, once this new develop development is made or created, this potentially could get worse. Will it
get worse. >> I mean, the the proposed development can't be any more uh you know, impactful on the the environment than it already is regarding the storm water. So, um in essence, I think it it would likely be
improved. Um but I >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Member Sidler. >> Thank you. I'm looking at page 61 of our agenda packet and it has the little
the squires here and I'm looking at the wetland buffers. We have an average now if we change the zoning. If we approve the zoning then we're approving is that we're decreasing the buffer from the wetland from 50 to what is the
minimum? And >> so the wetland buffers I believe are are standard requirements for St. John's. So any any type of development within proximity of a wetland is required to provide a minimum buffer requirement. >> Right. But when what we have now what it's zoned for now are we at what 50 ft
for a buffer from the >> it would be the if they were developed this property is single family homes 16 single family homes which would likely encompass the same land area if not more. Um they would have to meet the same landscape buffer or the the same
buffer requirements. >> Right. But if it's single family homes then that what are we we are zoned for 16 so it would fit and I think the zoning is 50 feet but if we change this zoning and I'm looking at this particular thing and it's an average of
25 ft wetland buffer we have some that are the building what is that souththeast is less than 25 ft from the wetland buffer. There's a couple areas that are less than the 25 ft. So I'm asking I
guess when we change from what we have now, excuse me, and it's a um we are counting on the square footage or the feet to be the buffer and we're decreasing that now and putting the building there. What is
protecting the wetlands when we're decreasing that buffer? >> Are we Is it the plaque that we're putting out there? Is it the walkway that's protecting that wetlands? When we decrease the from from the protecting I'm
>> I'm So what the the decrease? What are we >> I'm looking at when we change from one zone to another. We're asked to change from what we are now. What is the setback? >> Combine setbacks and and buffers. >> I think she's combining the two. We're
or conflating the two. >> Okay. >> So explain the difference between a setback and a buffer and how and how they're different. >> So, so they're landscape buffer requirements um through our code um for for shielding and buffering um like along the roadways um and in between
developments. Um and then there are land uh wetland buffers that are required for storm water management through the St. John's. Um building setbacks uh are measured from property lines to to proposed building constructions. So
those are uh minimum distances that buildings can be built from from property lines. Um >> and when we're in a conservation butting up to a conservation property, what is that?
>> So so what she's saying is that no matter what, right? So there's going to be a 25 foot buffer of wetlands. So 25 foot from the wetland until your property line where it starts you you have to res reserve or preserve that 25 foot. Then from that line to your
building becomes your setbacks. Okay. And so for a single family home from from that line to the building is 50 feet and then now because this these multif family homes it can only be it can be 25 foot from the property line that's 25 foot from the wetlands from
there to the building. So that 25 foot for the wetlands is going to always be there no matter the type of building that's ever built. >> Okay. And so the so do you see on your on your on your page there those those dotted lines >> that becomes the property line from there to the buildings or whatever that
becomes the the marker where you start counting the the feet to the building. Make sense? >> Okay. Next he >> Vicky Conlin. Good evening Vicky Conklin Titusville.
So I would request denial of this application. There's no reason why this property cannot be used in the existing zoning. The existing zoning allows 16 single family units. It can be built on. It can be used. That's the current
zoning. The requested is for 62. They call them town homes. They call them tiny homes. They're 800 square f feet. Um the architecture is not consistent with the existing homes. In these tiny homes that they're proposing, there's a 20 foot lot line. So, there's a
combination of between four and six attached with a common wall. That's kind of a new concept that we don't really have here so much. Um, 800 square ft, 50 ft high it can be. That's really tall. And, uh, the units, as I say, are
they're attached with the common walls. The backyard and the setbacks. I would really like for you to pay attention to those because 10 foot 10 feet is what the backyard is. And I want to show you how much that is because it's not much. It's equivalent to six of those chairs
in a row. And so this is all if I measure it from here, that's that's their backyard right there. That's their backyard. And I don't know that people want to move here and have a backyard that's 10 feet. Do any of you have a backyard that's 10 feet? You can't even
hardly put a patio back there or do anything. And that's right by the wetlands. So I think that needs to be considered as well. That's not acceptable. Uh there's no real plan with details. There's no elevations provided. There's no developer identified. The
plan does not account for the future widening of 405. And we do hope that that will future it it will be widened. They'd have to take out one of those town homes if you look at the proximity. So it kind of looks like a setup here. They hired the engineering firm that the
city hired to already do the comprehensive plan. Then they squeezed in the maximum number of units that could possibly do. They apply for reszoning and that's going to increase the resale value of the property and then they flip the property. I think our residents have caught on to this by now.
This is kind of not what we want our community to be. So one of the things I learned from a real estate attorney was when you bought what you bought is what you bought. So what you bought when you bought is what you bought. They knew what this was when they had this
property. Why do they come now and ask for a reasonzoning? There is no obligation. There is no legal obligation for this city to change the zoning. They can build on this land. They maybe just can't make as much money, but that's not our problem is to help them make money. Our problem is to create a better
community. I don't think tiny homes are a good fit for this property. I don't think they should be approved unless there's a benefit to the city. And that's part of the comprehensive plan. Things that develop here should have a benefit to the city. And so I ask you, what benefit is this to the city? The
benefit is to this developer. Please deny this application. >> Next card, Lori. >> Kathleen Oor. >> Hello. Dr. Kathleen O and I'm a Titusville resident and I want to talk a little bit about the market demand
analysis which um the city actually requires the applicant to do and as far as I can see that did not actually happen. Aside from the issues I'm going to present below. It seems apparent to me that when an applicant does not follow the required procedure, this
individual shows a serious lack of respect to the city and the current residents in the area. Additionally, the applicant has, as Vicki said, not even identified a clearly defined project or a builder. So, what are the problems requesting a smallcale amendment without
completing the market analysis? First of all, multifamily units are being proposed, but maybe they're not actually in demand. The overall housing unit vacancy rate that I found from Titusville is about 17.7%. That's pretty high relative to other
markets. That means that nearly one in five housing units are not occupied. This proposed area is already surrounded by eight large existing developments that are not fully occupied. According to the city of Titusville website, there
are over 1,800 new units already in review or being built in Titusville. Without a thorough and comprehensive market anal demand analysis, the applicant is putting the P&Z in a difficult position on making a decision on a proposal without the information
they need. One serious risk of not doing the analysis is it can be a mismatch between supply and demand leading to overbuilding, underbuilding, or a situation where properties sit vacant for years. A proper study would show who's moving in and out of the
community. Building apartments in a market already um I'm sorry I lost a word already saturated. Yes, with multif family units can leave new buildings half empty while failing to meet demands for the homes
family want. If buildings remain vacant, this can impact on nearby property values, wasted resources, and unnecessary ecological disruption. The lack of a market demand analysis can result in poor planning and ineffective
land use. In addition, there's a greater risk of misguided design choices, improper mix of choices, and potentially zoning and permitting issues. Furthermore, approval of this application without this analysis can result in community backlash and loss of
trust from the residents. Thus, I recommend that this current application be denied as at this point it is speculative and not based on the type of data needed to enable informed decisions and responsible decisionmakings. We
request that this accurate market demand analysis be conducted by the applicant in accordance with the Titusville land development regulations and any reasonzoning be delayed pending receipt of this analysis. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Um, for staff, is is it a requirement that the market analysis be submitted with the application? >> So, so the language is to the the extent to which the amendment results of a posit positive market economic and phys physical benefits of the area as
demonstrated through a market demand analysis, economic impact analysis, and physical impact analysis. Um, I I can tell you that this isn't something that's typically provided with our SSA applications. Um, so,
>> but is what you're reading from a requirement for an SSA application? >> That's part of the um comprehensive plan analysis criteria. member face.
>> Yeah. So, there are some parts that that are missing. Um, when it comes to an SSA, for example, she she used the word speculative and and I was like, okay, this is kind of speculative because we're not used to seeing a SSA, look, I'm not that's so
light in details. Um, when they was asking, you know, what is the average price per unit? The answer was, well, we don't know. We haven't gotten there yet. Um, we have talked about building. We don't know. We haven't gotten there yet. We don't know. We haven't gotten there yet. Um, and so
my question, which I just Googled on, I'll read it to you. You know, what is the risk of approving a small scale amendment in Florida, but a develop but the development never happens. Now that resoning has taken place, development hasn't happened. A small scale has been
applied to that property. But again, I said development never happens. Um, you know, right now the housing market in Florida is is going down. You know, I'm in school. So, I read an article today in class that talked about the work from home. Zoomtown is decreasing now and people are being stuck with properties
that are no longer sellable because the housing market is closing down. So, um, I I do have a concern that if a small scale amendment was to be approved, developments never happen. We have 1,800 on the books right now that won't happen. Not saying that you guys will or will not build. Not about that, right?
What if funding does fall through? Um that small scale amendment has been applied to that property now. So what then happens? >> So the small scale amendment um with this application is part of a PD master plan. So any future development would
have to be consistent with this approved master plan regardless of the property owner. >> Okay. So, does that mean the SSA goes away if the PD goes away or vice versa?
>> No, it's kind of a package deal. So, um it I mean in order to deviate from the proposed master plan substantially, uh i.e. do some type of different development, whether that be single family, um they would need to come back
for a reasoning and uh an amendment as well. >> Good to know. Thank you. Next card, >> Laura Lee Thompson. Laurely Thompson, Mims, Florida. Um, the pictures that I just gave you include the St. John Street Basin map, the
flooding that was still occurring in the Baker subdivision and Temple Drive a full week after Hurricane Ian and the freshwater flowing into the river at the St. John's Street outfall after a simple coldfront with rain passed through in January 2024.
To be functional, wetlands must have an upland border. Storm water going into the wetlands is reduced by trees within their borders because trees absorb tremendous amounts of rain. When trees are removed, the water they absorbed has
to go somewhere. The wetlands that will be impacted by this proposed development are unique to Titusville. No other municipality in Bvard County has anything like them, and they're critical for mitigating flooding for the neighborhoods that border them. These
wetlands, which are within the St. John's River flood plane, have been draining into the Indian River for decades. Removal of trees around their borders will significantly increase storm water that goes into the wetlands which drain to Lake Morba then go
through underground pipes to the Indian River. When there's more water to drain than the pipes can handle, which is happening more and more often, the water backs up and low-lying neighborhoods near the wetlands flood. This ongoing problem is worsening due to the annual
rise in rainfall due to climate change. Approval of this amendment will set a precedent for a sprawl development pattern of similar 50-foot complexes and increased density along the boundaries of all of these wetlands. With the
exception of one apartment complex, all development in this area is single family residential, including Fox Lake Hammock, which was referred to multiple times in your packet as an indicator of the trend towards residential development in the general area. This is
not the right place for 50- foot high buildings with their increased density and imperous surfaces. Buildings of that stature are completely incompatible with surrounding developments where there are zero buildings of that height or of 40t
height. The city has received a half million dollar grant from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection to do a feasibility study on how to reduce the amount of freshwater that flows from these wetlands into the Indian River. The city is also
conducting a vulnerability assessment to determine where flooding is occurring. We need time to understand where the problems lie and to craft solutions before we add to the problem by allowing highdensity development along the state
road 405 corridor. No market analysis has been done either by the city or the applicant to indicate that 50-foot town homes are needed at this location. We can't just treat these wetlands like they're cleared cow pastures. Please say
no to smallcale amendment application number 2-2024. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Next card, >> Stan Johnston. >> My name, excuse me, my name is Stan
Johnson. I'm a professional engineer and I've been my I've got five generations of Johnston's here and five generations of my wife's side and so we've been here for a while and actually is you've been
here longer than I have. Um, I came to you earlier and I told you about my mission to uh the corruption in the city of Tyville. And what you see here is an example of corruption. Now, let me tell you what the corruption is
here. It's the same thing what I just told you. Water flows downhill. This is not their their engineers's fault. It's right here. City of Titusville. See this book right here? This is what I talked about. This is applicable, still
current 1966 stormwater master plan of greater Titusville. I've had this for years and years and years. In 2012, I went and visited the engineer who was in charge of this stormwater master plan for
years. He had never seen it. Never. So, what I did recently is that knowing that these people right here in our planning department don't look at it, I bought them a copy of this and gave it
to Brad and them to use. Are they using it? No. None of this project has been reviewed by this. The shocking thing is is that right here is a very important place in this
vicinity where the water is shown to go to the St. John's River. In fact, is before 1966, this this canal has been constructed maybe in the 1930s and so forth that goes through there and it drains it to
the St. John's River. What Mrs. Thompson was talking about. So, what I have done, here's what I've done. I'm coming to you. I'm not saying to you deny it or accept it or table it. I'm I'm asking for a condition.
I'll give it to uh Mr. >> I used to live in this trailer park. Uh and here's what the condition says. This has to do with the city of Titusville planning department engineering department. I told you before what they do is when they do something they don't
they don't name any engineers. No engine. Okay. So I'm saying condition is a named city professional engineer shall report on this project as to whether this project conforms to requirements of city's 1966 storm water master plan.
That's this document. Especially the requirement that this project drains to the St. John's River. That's not a difficult thing to ask. In other words, I'm asking you to put on whatever you re whatever you choose,
even if you deny it, to put on there a condition for this project to be reviewed that way. That's all questions. It's a crazy thing to thank you for what Mr. Fson added. I think I think he was very good what what he added just recently.
Any questions? There's got to be some questions >> for the staff member faces. So, do we does I know that he has the 196076 master plan6 1966 stormwater master plan. >> Does the city still have a master
stormwater master plan? >> I personally don't have that information at this time. >> Okay. >> Wonderful. It's not surprising. >> So, if we don't have one, then they can't >> Oh, yeah, you do. You have it. I know you I hand delivered it to Bradley. >> Well, we got to find out.
>> I paid for it. They have a she should have a good answer to that question because that's that's that's that's a big thing big issue. That's why I'm wearing this shirt. FEMA. No questions.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any more cards? No more cards. >> All right. Um, applicant rebuttal opportunity. >> All right. I tried to take good notes if
I don't know how well I did so that I can answer some of the questions that were raised. I I think I want to start out by saying, you know, this project offers an affordable alternative as single family housing. So, it's not rental, it's not multifamily, it's fe
simple ownership for folks that might not be able to afford a 2,000 foot home. >> Oh, I thought I was. Can you Can you hear me now? >> Okay. Now. >> Okay. So, what I said was um this
project is a feasible ownership of town homes, an alternative to affordable single family housing. That's what it is. In many of our jurisdictions, this one included, that's an issue. People want home ownership. It's just out of reach.
This would make it attainable for 62 families. In order to obtain the required permits, the project has to take into consideration pre and post storm water runoff. So, several of the questions had to do with that. Well, what about the
existing oncoming storm water onto this property? Whatever volume is currently running onto this property is part of the after calculation. So regardless of how much impervious surface is added with this project, it plus the existing
current runoff onto the property from all of those other subdivisions that either didn't take it into account when they were built or alternatively as the first speaker said infrastructure affecting it adversely. And that is not
the applicant or any property owner's responsibility. If there's infrastructure needs, unless it's part of a homeowners association where dues are paid for that to be upkept, like this one will be, then that's an issue outside of our control.
Additionally, we would like to go on the record as saying that we will ensure that the lift station is a minimum of 75 ft away from any water body. It's over that now and even if it has to be relocated in final
design plans, it will maintain a minimum of 75 ft and likely more. Several speakers said that the project was 50 feet in height. We agreed the last time around. We've not changed. We agree to
40 ft. So for the record, 40, not 50. With respect to conservation areas and wetlands, wetlands can be seen as a subset of conservation areas. So some of you mentioned it, maybe I'm hoping a little clearer this way. So you can have
an uh a canopy of trees that are considered wetlands depending on the species or you can have lower scrub materials or scrub vegetation also considered cons wetlands. Conservation simply means the type of
property put in protection under an agreement that is generally recorded so that that property cannot be developed. This project increases the amount of conservation area by 10 acres.
10 acres, 76 acres, 15 developable, five additional set to the side for parks and walkways, etc. So 10 acres are really being set aside for development.
We are way too early in a process for any developer or any municipality or county to expect full-on drawings. That's just not where it happens. However, the process here is robust. So,
everything that happens down the road comes again before two hearings, this one and the commission. So, you get another bite at the apple. All of the folks here and more get another bite at the apple. As was explained during the
community meeting, anybody in this room can ask the St. John's to be copied on any and all correspondents about this project or any other project for that matter that they're interested in and they'll add them to that list. So even if we diverge
and something goes to the St. Sean's that's not required to go to the city. Unlikely, but if that were to happen, any interested citizen can ask, "Hey, I live in the area and I'd like to be copied on everything and anything for the project located at fill in the
blank." You'll get it. It happens. It's a good way to follow things next to you, um, or down the street from you or what have you. Um, we've worked really hard to address the other con uh concerns that were brought up a year ago. We took
an entire year to do it. We went back to the community. We offered a full community meeting. It was with areas. We had a the storm water engineer there. We had the traffic engineer there. All those studies were updated. We can't get further with that data until we get
further with the project. We want to work with the city. We want to be good neighbors. We want to do it right. If you have any other questions, I'd like to answer them for you. >> Member Sidler.
>> Thank you. Um you I asked you what the uh proposed or the the price point was and you couldn't give me that answer but then you just said that the affordable housing fee simple ownership town homes what is what do you consider affordable
housing when you're building and how did you determine that Titusville what is affordable in Titusville okay there's a for there's a formula that you apply when you're doing affordable housing there's also another category called workforce housing. So, it has to do with
and I don't have the the numbers in front of me and so I'd be lying if I made it up for you, but it has to do with the median income. It also has to do with salaries and then it also has to do with housing type and those those numbers and it also has to do not only
with the local, but then it goes out a little further. So, here here is Titusville. What's it look like here? And then the numbers that are applied. Okay. will look like going out a little further entire all of Bard County and then those numbers reduce to what would
be considered. So affordable housing in Titusville will differ from what affordable housing um you know in uh Bithlo is or Christmas or Orlando or Melbourne. They'll all be different because of those numbers. And if there's
a table and I I I don't have it in front of me. I apologize. her face. >> So, so I'll help you. Um, so it's 64,000 almost $65,000 a year. Um, it's been up it's up substantially um because a few
years ago it's in the 50s. So now it's 64,000 65,000 um annually. And then so what you do is you you do some math with that. And so what they consider to be very very low income is 30% of that. So if you make 30% of that then that's considered to be very low. what they consider to be
average or workforce housing is gonna be 80 to 130% of that. So if you do the math, you do anywhere between 80% of 54,000 to 130% of that. That's considered to be workforce housing um income. And so um that's I'm just answer
the income. >> I appreciate it. Okay, I'll leave it at that. >> Any other questions? If not, I will close the public hearing. Thank you very much. >> And bring it back to the commission. Any discussion? Anyone here? Member
Sidler. >> Thank you. I just want to point out one thing on page what is this 28 I believe of the staff comments and it is has to do with the infrastructure connectivity and reducing
the need for increased public costs or earlier public costs and if you go down to line 10 11 12 13 and 14 it does say here from staff that there may be a significant demand land on city resources. If portable water is used for
irrigation, sustainable landscape or alternative irrigation methods could be utilized to reduce potential impacts on the Cindy's portable water supply. So, I'm just concerned they're concerned and so I'm just wondering where are we start seeing that addressed? If it's here, how
do we address it? So that information will be will be addressed during the site plan process >> site plan process and and full engineering on the project. remember child,
>> you know, are I remember this from a year ago and um and but what were the Can you remind me what the conditions that the planning and zoning commission um recommended? >> Yes. So, they were there were two
additional conditions recommended by the planning and zoning commission at that time. a building height no greater than 40 ft. And then number two, allow the Forest Hill Baptist Church to access their proposed driveway at the Singleton Avenue intersection if possible. So that's the language that was uh
approved. >> Um and I don't I don't know that like many situations have really changed um as far as uh the flooding, but we definitely everyone who sits on a board or city council or state
state position. Um they get questions about flooding daily, you know. Um and so it's something that is in the front of our mind a lot recently. And um and
it's really tough to like go through some, you know, something like this to zone it. And it may not be, you know, the person who owns the the property that you want to develop, but it's it's probably the city's fault, you know, in this in certain cases, especially we
already have flooding in the neighborhood that's directly to the south of this property. >> And um maybe there's some storm water um ducks that need to be cleaned out because I mean, it happens right by my house. It's a little storm duck. And
from my house, I have I have some of my lawn just, you know, some of the dirt from my lawn just goes to the sewer. It goes right there and it's just a little storm water pond, but it goes through there and it gets clogged up. Now, city comes out sometime. It's it's come out
at least once um and uh clear that out and stuff, but I think we have a problem we need to address before we continue to exacerbate the problem. And um I'm you
know it's it's unfortunate that that's where we're at right now. But I don't I just don't you know it's no fault of the people who built you know 50 year you know in 1950s as my kids would say the 1900s which makes it sound even further
back and makes me f you know feel really old but so it's not their fault and it's not the people who bought the property's fault either but you know I think um what the city could help with is what are we doing
for to solve this issue. So we don't have like you know we don't have these reszonings and we have to say look what's you know we I know it's not your fault the flooding is not your fault and but what are we going to do you know we
we can't just keep you know approving things and um and ignore the problem so I think this is more of it's not the applicant's issue but it is the city's issue of what are we doing for this
flooding so we can move forward with you know uh developing in a responsible way. So that's my issue and two cents about it. >> Any other comments? >> There's a lot going on with this with
this with this here. Um because again we're only brought the only action before us right is just do we basically yay or nay to the PD not necessarily to their plans their plans is just preliminary giving us an idea what they want to do with it but not
necessarily what they are going to do with it and so that's not really what we are voting on today is 62 units 62 units is just hypothetical okay um the reality is they can put as as many as can fit there to be honest with you right.
>> I don't believe so since it's a PD, right? Am I correct on that or >> No, I'm going to say whatever that whatever they're allowable to to have. I don't know what that number is. I'm not saying you can put 100 out there. I'm not saying that. I'm saying whatever you guys are allowable to do, you're going to put that many out there. That's that's all. But that's not our concern.
That's not what's before us, right? What's before us is do we say yay or nay to building something in a PD on that property? understanding that yay means you have these potential issues. Nay
means you won't. Um, and that's all that's before. So, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm conflicted to be honest with you, you know, as I sit here and think about it. Um, because we our our last member that's not with us anymore, he he wanted a a
property this size. He wanted something that was 6 to 800 square feet. Um, and and and that doesn't exist in this community. Well, and and I I have an economic, you know, background on the business side and and the city needs the
tax revenue to be able to do the corrections that we're talking about as well. So, it's it's a bit of a a double-edged sword and I share your conflictions. Yeah. That uh >> whether you do do or you don't.
>> Yeah. and and you know but but the the other part of that goes back to that report that says that our infrastructure can handle more growth and then so we we have that before us and then we see that the current situation doesn't even we
can't even handle what we currently have and then you want to put more on top of that you know what I mean and it's just it's no fault to y'all not at all right rain's going to happen you know things are going to happen but you know so anyways I'm just I'm just as
I sit here, I'm I'm I'm pondering the right thing to do for the city of Titusville and for those residents. But sometimes residents sometimes, you know, you you you own a lake and it floods. Whether they build or not, your lake still floods. Okay? So that's not their fault.
If your lake floods, it just it just does. When it rains a lot, it floods. The river floods. It's not it's not their fault that you floods. God makes it rain. So I'm just anyways I'm just I'm just conflicted that's all. >> Um I just like to make a comment. So um
the property is permitted by Wright to develop 16 single family homes. Um and I think the majority of the issues that have been discussed here tonight would still be in place even with that type of development. So I just wanted to point that out. >> No that that's what I mean. I mean it's
it's not their development making the problem worse except for the lift station being next to the water. should it go out that that that would be their problem. Um and the safety part, but um them merely building is not the problem. You know, that that's that that's what that's what I'm trying to say. Them
merely building is not the problem. Um so, >> member Seedler, >> thank you. I think the engineering models that you guys are that that are used and presented to us, those are engineering models versus what
we're seeing in our neighborhoods firsthand experience. they are we've got localized floating that that kind of suggests that the they're not um aligning with the projections. What what they're coming
out with and we're saying we have enough. We have the ability to to sustain the growth, but what we're seeing is that they say we are, but we're experiencing we're not. And so when those conflict
and we're asked to to uh vote on something when everybody they meet the criteria because they check the boxes um it's a tough spot. So
>> member Scotty >> uh I just want to clarify the last time this came forth a year ago this passed unanimously. Correct? No, >> no. >> The comprehensive plan amendment passed unanimously and the reasonzoning and master plan approval uh was approved by
a vote four to three. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Go ahead. I saw your reach. >> Um I was just going to say um >> when the the young lady uh came up just not the attorney, right?
Okay. Um, and she mentioned she said, you know, that they took the time to do what was asked of them a year ago. They made the changes that they're willing to work with the city. And then it was also mentioned that kind of almost definitively like we will
work and then the gentleman before believe the civil engineer stated that you know to trust their plan or have faith in in their plan and things of that nature. And I'm I kind of agree with what member facing. Um kind of conflicted here because there's a lot of
um it's a lot of information that's being given of course and I wasn't on the board a year ago. So this is definitely um something new for me. Um and then of course hearing the residents and their concerns and and things that nature. So we really have um you know
some a decision to make tonight. Um but I think I guess my question still remains about you know what happens with the flooding you know um how do we correct that what provisions can we put in place how can
we who do we hold accountable for those things that happen um if it's passed or if it's not passed if if there's conditions so I guess I guess are there alternatives to what we're being asked um to vote on tonight. >> Member Chapman.
>> Uh yeah. So, exactly. There's a lot going on here. Uh I would like to try and bring uh us back like Mr. Feson said. We're here uh uh we're here, you know, the ordinance we we've got a legislative item, right?
Correct. And we have a quasi judicial item, right? >> That's correct. >> All right. So the legislative item is the one that we can all discuss >> the land use >> right and then the quasi judicial that one's a little hard pressed I guess depending on do they meet the check
boxes do they meet what is law required by city ordinance things of that nature that that's the two separatenesses there the only issue that we have is our our ordinances and our code is all interpretation based instead of uh
hierarchy based um so to speak um because everything you go this place shall be single family this place you know this zoning shall be multif family uh we have a lot of issues with our ordinances that
contradict I think areas and that's where the heartache is so I just want to bring us back to the legislative and the quasi judicial and and how we approach those two is >> number
I'll make a motion whenever you're ready. >> Um, does anyone else have anything before we get a motion? You can always second up for discussion. So, motion away. >> All righty. I move that we approve the small scale amendment application number
2-2024, State Road 405 in Singleton Avenue, PDU uh PD South. >> Is this where we the one that requires conditions or the next one? Um so we'll need um two two separate motions. One
for the land use um and then one for the resoning and master plan. >> All right. So for the land use I would also ask that you let us know whether or not we have a stormwater um master plan and if we do make sure that they that their plan aligns with our stormwater
master plan if we should have one. That'll be the only condition that I ask. Um, and so we'll take it one by one by one usually. So, >> and so does the height condition and the
driveway condition is that on the zoning or the >> that would be under the reasonzoning ordinance. >> Um, I I believe that the this would as well. So the the comprehensive plan is is just pertaining to the land use amendment and then all of the other
conditions would be tied to the resoning ordinance. So any type of conditions that you want to place would be under the >> rezoning. Okay. >> Okay. Second. All right. Member Chapman seconds. >> Roll call vote, please. Well, any
discussion? >> All right. Roll call vote, please. Sorry. >> Member Scully. >> Yes. >> Vice Chairman Childs. >> No. >> Member Gallen. >> Yes. Secretary Grant. >> Yes. >> Member Troutman. >> Yes.
>> Member FA. >> Yes. >> Chairman Eton. >> Yes. >> All right. Member FA, you're doing such a good job with your motion. You want to take number two. >> All righty. So uh again we'll um I move to approve the small scale amendment SSA
application number 2-2024 zero 405 Single Avenue PD South uh with the um stipulations of the checking this stonewater master plan make sure that they uh abide by that
>> the 50 foot height and no more than go ahead >> to the 40 foot maximum >> I'm sorry 40 foot max height I'm I'm sorry thank you and then no more the 62 units >> that that would be a given based on the master plan and the ordinance. >> Okay. >> And and the access room.
>> Oh, yes. And that the church can use the access room. >> All right. And were there also staff conditions requested as well? >> Yes. The recommended staff conditions one through five. >> All right. >> Yes. And let's go and add those staffing
recommendations one through five. Do we have a second for the motion? >> Second. >> Any discussion before vote? >> All right. Well, Lori, please. >> Secretary Grant. >> Uh, yes. I'm in favor of seeing the
process. >> Member Troutman. >> Yes. >> Member FA. >> Yes. >> Vice Chairman Childs. >> No. >> Member Scully? >> Yes. >> Member Gellen? Yes. Chairman Eton. >> Yes. >> Can I put mic? Yeah. Yep.
>> So, for the land use, I I think um there will be impact on conservation. I know it's growing it, but I think there's going to be impact whether they want it or not. And as far as the zoning, I don't think it matches the uh surrounding area.
>> All right. And this will come before council when? >> Um, this will be before council on November 11th, >> right? >> Clarification. So the first reading will be on the 28th and then the public hearing will be on the 11th.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> The first reading will be held at the city council on October 28th and the public hearing will be held on November 11th. >> We we don't advertise the first reading. It would we're only required to
advertise the the public hearing. All right. Thank you. Uh, next item of business is item 9B. Um, don't have a lot of detail here, but cancel. It reads cancel December 17, 2025 commission meeting.
Is that a staff? Do you need any explanation or is this just we move and >> um I'm not sure if that was due to scheduling purposes or if that we we didn't have anything on the the agenda, but I have a feeling it might have been
due to some scheduling issues. >> I'm assuming it's so close to the holidays that they uh lack of u attendance was was a concern. Uh, I certainly am fine with it, although I do think I'll be in town
then. But, um, do we have a motion? >> I'll make a motion that that we, uh, yeah, cancel our December 17th mission. Um, meeting >> mission meeting. >> We have a second.
>> What? You don't like our meetings? >> Really? Nice. >> Can we cancel more or >> All right. Uh moved and seconded. Roll call vote I guess. Lori. >> Member FA. >> Yes. >> Member Gellen. >> Yes. >> Member Chapman.
>> Yes. >> Member Scully. >> Yes. >> Vice Chairman Childs. >> Yes. >> Secretary Grant. >> Yes. >> Chairman Naton. >> Yes. >> All right. Um this is uh item 10 on the agenda is our second opportunity for petitions and requests from the public
present. Uh, anyone? >> You're still here, Stan? You want to talk to us again or not? >> Oh, you only get one try. Okay. All right. Sorry. All right.
Uh, step next. Uh, city staff report. >> There are no city staff reports. >> And there's no city attorney present. So, I assume there's no report from the city attorney. Um, I have no report. Any of the members have anything to
report? >> All right. Nice tune. >> All right. >> No, that was to you. >> Uh, seeing none, we will stand adjourned.