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[Music] Dave not. >> Good evening everyone. >> At this time I'd like to ask you to stand and join with me the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. [Music]
[Music] This meeting is convened with in accordance with the provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act of New Jersey. Let the official minutes reflect that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by publishing a notice in the Asbury Park Press on Monday, April 8th,
2024 and the Star Ledger and thereafter posting same on the town hall bulletin board for such notices and filing same with the township clerk. This meeting was also posted on the township web page. Councilman Sakosi is asking for an excused absence either
way on business in Italy again. >> We need to make a motion on that. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second that. All in favor? >> I. >> Councilman Lamb >> here. >> Councilman Loman. >> Councilman Loman.
>> Councilman Loen's also asking for an excused absence. He has another meeting to attend this evening. So we'll require a motion. >> I'll make a motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Councilman Iverson, >> yes. >> Councilman Quinn,
>> yes. >> Council Vice President Otul, >> yes. >> Council President Coleman, >> yes. >> Item five are the minutes from the regular meeting on March 27th, 2024. >> Move the minutes. >> Second. A motion is made by Councilman Lamb and second by Councilman Iverson. Councilman
Lamb, >> yes. >> Councilman Nverson, >> yes. >> Councilman Quinn, >> yes. >> Council Vice President Otul, >> Council President Coleman, >> yes. >> There are no honoring resolutions and presentations. We moving to item seven. Item seven is an ordinance of the township council township of Tom's
River, Ocean County, New Jersey, repealing ordinance number 47 4792-24 of the township code of the township of Tom's River titled amending and supplementing sections 503 50-3b 50-3G and 50-3R of the township code to revise
the roster of petitions within the department of law enforcement. This is a final reading. >> Motion second. >> Uh there will be that public comment. >> Need public comment first. Okay. At this time, we'll uh accept any public comment on this.
>> This is on the final reading of the the resolution uh number seven on the agenda. >> Ordinance, I'm sorry. Ordinance number seven. >> I see no takers. So, yes. Okay. Sorry, sir. Go ahead. and make sure you talk directly in the
microphone, okay? Name and your address. >> My name is Jerry Nappy. Live in Point uh Pleasant Plains section, Monroe Avenue in Tom's River. I've lived here a little while. I've lived here about 50 years. I've raised four children. I've raised
six grandchildren. I got married in this town and I liked it so much I did it twice. Um, thought this was a safe town when I moved down from Brooklyn back in the 50s and 60s. Uh, moved down here in the 70s.
Great town to re relocate and have my family, which I did. Um, 50 years have been great. Up until the last six months, I have grown to a point where I don't feel safe in this town with what's going on with the management of this
town, cutting our police department. I've gone and got gun permits. I've got a don't have it on me, but I have a concealed carry weapon permit as well just to keep safe because I feel that we are bending to the rules of a person who
actually caused a lot of conflict in this city. He actually made this an anti-semitic uh vote on his last time. made people hating the Jewish religion, and I'm going to say that out loud, and put signs up around town, which I have never
seen before, that say there's no room for hate in Ocean County. I've never seen that before until the last few months. Okay, you need I understand, Miss Oul, you're you brought in the vote for the ambulance to your district. I give you a
lot of credit because you supported your people. Okay? You're getting rid of or trying to cut down the people in town, the police officers in town to have eight new people on the street. Eight new EMTs. That's only one
ambulance. Eight EMTs is only one ambulance that staffs it 24/7. Outsource it. Oh, wait. We don't like the guy who outsources now, so we don't want him to have more business. You know, this has become a political thing. We put people in place. We offer them jobs. We offer
an ambulance. We offer a police job. We offer people places. You guys are a jury. You are here to do what you were voted to do. If you're being persuaded to vote any other way than somebody is tampering with the jud the jury and
that's illegal. The people here in your ward are the ones that told you what they want. And any way anytime you vote against what the people who put you in office and everyone here put you in office. Are there any veterans here? Any
Can you please stand up? Can you please stand up? These are the guys. Thank you. These are these are the people these are the people that you see in the street. They have a hat on says World War I, World War II, uh Korean War, Army, Navy,
Air Force, Marines. You say, "Thank you for your service." You shake their hand. You may buy them a cup of coffee. You give them 10% off in a restaurant. And then what else do you do? Nothing. They You're They're here telling you what they want. They They're here telling you
how they want you to vote. And if you turn around and don't vote the way they asked you to, people that voted for you and put you in office, then you should all resign and would have a half a million dollars more money in the in the kitty. A $200,000 a job, $50, $60,000 a
job each year. Do the numbers, add it up, you've got a half a million dollars right here for people that don't do their job. Please remember, God bless America, but God help Tom's River. Thank you. Just just like to clarify the council
people, we bring home $221 a month. That's it. That's what we get paid, not $56,000. $221 a month. That's what we get paid >> after deductions. >> Then you should take it from the time. And there was about 90% of the other
people who wanted us to vote the way we wanted. Not one person. We only see the one side here. Okay. Um ma'am and sir, would you get stand up in in the aisle? I don't want to waste time people uh coming up. So ma'am, come on up and then
gentlemen, would you please get in line? I'm sorry, ma'am. I didn't realize I couldn't see you behind. And please make sure you state your name and your address, please. >> Hi, I'm Liz Dorick. Feeasant Lane, Tom's River. And I just wanted to bring up a couple of um
comments from our last meeting on this ordinance. I know that you um had decided to to uh go ahead and I just wanted to talk about in the mayor's diet tribe at the last meeting, he stated he never needed this
ordinance to begin with. He spoke of saving money by rem getting rid of those administrative positions for the police department and he's not going to backfill them. He also spoke about eliminating the as he put it chief's PR
person and I just wanted to correct it and have it on record that that title is public information officer which is an integral position in law enforcement agencies throughout this country. The last time I well two times ago when
I've spoken to you and I talked to you about voting on your own and not just following what everyone is saying to do, you all said, "Nobody tells me what to do." Well, I can quote the mayor at that last meeting as saying, "I've advised
the council to repeal the or ordinance." Now, that sounds to me like somebody told the council what to do because he doesn't need the ordinance to begin with. So, I just wanted to point that out as an inconsistency and he said he was advising you to do that in order to save the cost of
special elections or litigation. And Ms. Oul, when you read your your statement after the um the ordinance decided to to to be um changed there, you said, "I still
support the mayor's plan. The salaries are outrageous." and you were discussing the salaries of the police officers whose jobs will not be refilled and backfilled. This was never about salaries. The town council negotiates
police officers salaries. And I do believe, Mr. Rodri, when the these salaries were negotiated, you were a councilman at that time. So salary negotiation is not what this ordinance was about. And if you think those police officers make too much money, I think
that you might be incorrect in that. So, I just had these comments I wanted to say about the the last meeting. And I also want to return this Tom's River Bulletin because I was going to I think you're a teacher. I think that's what I heard somewhere,
but I was going to correct it with red marker and whatnot because number one, the header of it should be Tom's River bull crap because this is nothing that I want to pay for and it's nothing but perpetuating the lies. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
>> Is there somebody else who'd like to speak after her? Would you please come up and stand behind her so we don't waste time waiting for you to come up? >> Irene Watson, Messenger Street. There is a lot of things I don't understand regarding the police department and
change, but one thing I feel I understand a bit. You're going to downsize the patrolman by one. Is that correct? >> No. >> No. No. Actually, this is repealing all of the changes. So, no.
>> Okay. So, you're not going to downsize? >> No. >> This this ordinance right now repeals the changes rather than litigate over it. So, there's no change. >> Okay. So, you're keeping the things the way they were. >> The way they were. >> Well, I'm I'm not back filling the
captain's spots. So, >> okay. But, >> so you're not >> right now. Well, I believe we're at maximum. >> We've always been at maximum through this entire time. We've had 113 officers. So, even when we changed the office uh when we changed the ordinance,
we never decreased or laid anyone off. So, all it said was going forward, we wouldn't go past 112 versus 113. And that's uh at the time we were at maximum we had 113 people but uh one person was not
actually uh working. Um so we were at 112 but on paper we're at 113 and we're paying 113 people. None of that has ever changed through all of this. It's been the same number of people working there. >> All right. Okay. Thank you. I have something for public comment but I'll
wait then. Okay. Thanks. Uh Julie Adam, uh Cedar Grove Road in Tom's River. Um I just want to make a comment about this um downsizing with the captain's position. I think everyone in Tom's River has noticed the
tremendous increase in crime recently. We had the jewelry heist at the uh Ocean County Mall. We've had the um catalytic catalytic converters stolen in a section of Tom's River. We've had a number of burglaries uh over off of Whitesville
Road um in a wealthier um development there. And I just think that this is a big mistake. You have to have a strong um administrative department and uh people that are well-versed and have a
lot of experience and they're the the backbone of the police department and it all trickles down from the top down to the bottom when you with the uh uh patrolman on the street. So I think this is not the right time to be doing this.
Um I think it's been stated at many of the meetings uh that we have a shortage actually of the uh the police in in the police department uh that we should be better staffed than what we are and we know the population has increased uh uh
exponentially in Tom's River. So um I would like to uh um the council and the mayor to think about the uh ramifications of this decision going forward. [Applause]
Good evening, Mr. Coleman. How are you? >> Evening, Chris. How you doing? >> 111 Flax Street. Good sir. Um, we can go round and round with the uh sematics or semantics from the mayor here. The department is being downsized. There's no doubt about it because if you cut two captains, you're going to have two less
officers. So, all you need to know, car burglaries, houses have been broken into. Forget the mall. That's that's another incident. But crime is up in Tom's River. If you expect the officers at 112, which is probably maybe 20 below to do the job they should be doing, it's just not going to happen. So when they
come to your house or they come to my house, maybe you'll be complaining. But you're better than this, Mr. Coleman. You don't want to be remembered for the legacy of cutting police officers in Tom's River. Never have we ever cut police officers. If the chief or the deputy chief asked for positions to be
cut, I'd listen to them because they know. I've talked about this before. They know what's going on. All due respect, sir, you're an educator. I wouldn't expect you to weigh on this, but you all have. And Mr. Nvice, you speak about 90%. I can assure you it's 90% that don't want our our police
officers cut. You live in Silverton. You live in a good area of Tom's River. Doesn't matter where you live, crime is going up. And until you guys really stop listening to the mayor here, it will continue. If you had chose any other topic, instead of cutting the police and
going after the dogs, we wouldn't come to these meetings. This is why we're here. It's our town and you should be listening to us. We have 4,000 signatures plus. So, if that wasn't alarming enough, you you guys dismiss us by repealing new ordinance. That's not going to work because if there's 4,000
people that'll sign it, there's a lot more that gonna gonna eventually vote you all out if you don't want to listen to us. And Mrs. Oul, you and I obviously would disagree, but Silverton's a good area. Holiday City, Silverton. Crime is up there as well. You may not be aware of it, but when an officer's on a first
aid call and the house gets broken into and the Tom's River Police Department is at minimum staffing, you're going to be waiting. It's not 30 minutes for an ambulance, it's 30 minutes for an officer. Sometimes the calls are stacked up. You could do the right to know yourself, but I really wish you would
start listening instead of listening to this because eventually this is not going to go well. I actually think the town has gone backwards 20, 30 years because of Mr. Rodick here. And please think for yourselves. I hear good things about some of you, but listen to this.
Not good. Again, stop listening to one person. Listen to us. We are the people of Tom's River. We're not going away either. Thank you for listening to me. [Applause] Hey Paul. >> Good evening, sir.
>> Well, just all due respect, okay? >> Mhm. >> Three meetings you told us about your prison term >> and your criminal background, >> right? >> And you also told me that I don't know how to run a meeting and that's fine. That's your opinion. Please don't repeat those items again. I think everybody in
this room has heard it. I hope you have some other point that would help us make Tom's River better. Okay, that's and I'm being respectful. I'm just asking you please don't go through those things again. We've heard it three times. Okay. Thank you. >> Would the township council like to
advise Mr. Coleman about content? >> First of all, Mr. Williams, your name and address for the record. >> Paul Williams, 35 Broad Street, Toms River, New Jersey. >> I do not choose to advise him at this point. He's asking. >> Of course you don't because if there's litigation, you get paid. >> In any event, I wasn't even going to bring that up to this evening. I wasn't
even going to bring that up this evening, especially since Mr. Elman is not here to moan and groan about it. >> But in any event, um I want to piggyback a little bit on on what was said and that was about not listening to the mayor and and doing
your due diligence and things like that. I personally would not advise you to not listen to the mayor. Instead, what I would advise you to do is listen with one ear to what he has to say and listen to an objective voice on the same
subject to be better informed because I hate to admit it sometimes, but sometimes he's right on some things. It's rare, but sometimes, and he is the mayor, he ought to be advising you and consulting with you uh on some things.
But you also have a responsibility that's inherent in your being elected in your power to vote on these things. Your responsibility to vote on these things to figure out what's what instead of just listening to the mayor.
It's important and I and I think it was since the very first time I wasn't here for the January 1 reorg meeting, but the very first meeting after that I came here, Mr. Coleman and I reminded you that you as the council president are the one that decides what goes on the
agendas. That's pursuant to our municipal code. It's not the business administrator's responsibility. It's not the mayor's responsibility. In fact, it's not even their right. It's your responsibility for what goes on the agenda or what isn't on the agenda. That responsibility lays squarely at your
feet. Even though it may be something that the administration wants, it's this council's responsibility to vote on the matters that you, Mr. Coleman, decide goes on the agenda. And by that, there's a reason why these
things are supposed to be in concept posted on the website for all of us to see. This is why there's supposed to be an agenda meeting a week before the actual meeting so that the council members and yourself can discuss these things that are being proposed to be put to be put on agendas.
As always, I try to implore you to do what we need you to do. Sir, are you are you going to address the the ordinance because this is >> there's going to be public comment, but >> Right. >> This is on the ordinance repealing, >> right?
>> And I'm about to get there. Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. >> And I'll get there right now if that helps. Okay. So, at this point now, after you've already voted on something that caused so much uproar in this community, you're now on the second reading of an ordinance to repeal
something that you all voted for, not once, but twice. And now you're going to repeal it when it never needed to be done to begin with because the stated reasons through the mayor was about saving money. when
there was a LEAP grant through the uh Department of Community Affairs for $400,000 which the mayor knew about could have presented to you as an alternative to cutting these positions in order to save the salaries. There was a grant that
could have been applied for and I believe is in the process of possibly being applied being applied for now only after the citizens were successful in their referendum petition. There was more information that you did not have because you only listened to
what he told you. You only listened to what he told you about the necessity for the ordinance when you first voted on it, not once but twice. There was a grant that's available that would have paid for those positions which he now insists he's not going to backfill
anyway. So, there was no need for this ordinance to begin with. And now here we are only two months later and you're voting to um to resend that ordinance. So as always, I try to encourage you to not just listen to the mayor, but to
listen to other information as well. Thank you, >> Council President. I was wondering if I could have a moment to address this grant. >> Uh Mayor, you have the floor. >> Thank you. Grant is coming up on later on in the agenda. So, I just wanted to address this alleged grant since
>> when we first got in, I believe it's two um Mr. Pascarella, perhaps three times recognize you. I did not recognize you. Go ahead. >> Perhaps two or three times uh Councilman Coleman and I uh when we first got here, uh a new software was in was uh
incorporated into the township as far as putting agendas together. Um department heads report to the business administrator. Uh but department heads were enabled to place all kinds of things and some folks weren't even
department heads onto these agendas and they were just accumulated out of thin air which has been rectified but there was never an agreement between myself, the mayor and the mayor of Island Heights about anything to do with Island
Heights or shared services with Island Heights and putting something on an agenda that says you're supposed to have a shared services agreement with another municipality voted on by both municipalities and pretending that you
have a grant opportunity, filling it out and turning it in is equivalent to being fraudulent. Right? If you need an agreement, uh it's the administration that negotiates shared services agreements. As to this alleged $400,000
number, the entire grant statewide would produce $2.2 million. We're just one small town. Well, we're a big town, but one town out of $550. So, the idea that we would get $400,000 is somewhat preposterous, but you'd have to have an
agreement. The agreement would have to make sense and then we would then apply for it after two communities had an agreement. We never had that, but we kept seeing this show up on an agenda.
Uh but again, department heads go to the business administrator with their ideas. The business administrator decides that's a good idea, that's a bad idea, this is an okay idea, that makes it onto an agenda. When the business
administrator decides this is a policy we'd like to pursue, then checks and balances. Council president has the opportunity to say, you know what, I don't like that item and it's his right to pull that item. should he want to pull that item. But one thing that never
happened in government here, as long as I've been here, seven years, never ever did department heads all of a sudden put together agendas. And never ever did a mayor and a council president have to sit down and weed through 30 or 40 items to figure out where the hell did this
contract come from? What is this agreement? Do you know anything about that? That never happened. We do now have that under control, but there was never an agreement with Island Heights. Even the chief even the chief of police
when he was asked about this alleged grant opportunity is in writing. Some of you out here like to Oprah. You could Oprah it is in writing saying that the only negotiations that occurred was when a subordinate officer talked to a subordinate officer in the police
department in Island Heights. that does not constitute a shared services agreement. And pretending it does may be good politics, but it would be very bad policy because it's akin to fraud. And that's that's what all this talk about a grant has really been. We keep
saying there's this $400,000 grant and some folks feel that if you say it enough times, it will materialize, but it doesn't work like that. Certainly doesn't work that way for Republican towns. We just imagine that we're going to get a half a million dollars and it's going to just show up. that doesn't that doesn't happen. Thank you, Council
President, for for giving me the time. >> You're welcome. Uh, Councilman Quinn. >> Oh, God. Um, he's right in some points. Uh, but uh, first I want to um acknowledge that he just threw Solanus under the bus because at the last meeting I believe they said they had no
information about such a grant. So, he just said it just like it's hard to keep up with this. I It really is. Um the the grant was uh uh started way back in February and if the mayor didn't like the way it
was done or it's an incomplete application, which it is because the the chief doesn't have the authority to negotiate it, but he can present it. The mayor did nothing with it or I should say according to him, Solanus did nothing with it because it was stupid or something to take a a potential $400,000
grant. Uh, so that falls back on this administration and I hate saying and I hate when I hear everybody out there say this administration because sadly I'm part of it and I get lumped in with some of these poor decisions. Uh, it was it was a very foolish thing for him not to
take advantage of that grand opportunity way back then and get it rolling. Now I understand he's got some super plan coming up for us later on in tonight's agenda and I can't wait to hear what it is. Thank you, Mr. President. >> Okay, sir. Yes. Uh Bob Tolan, 109 Messenger Street,
Toms River. I don't know if the council or the people out there are aware that the salary that the mayor wants to pay the starting EMTs is more than we pay starting policemen in this town. Thank you.
Now, >> Council President, may I may I just answer that? >> Mayor, you have the floor. >> Okay. So, yes, a starting police officer starts out around $50,000 or 50 some odd thousand a year and has a 12-year guide
which tops out at around $168,000 which is somewhere in the neighborhood about $10,000 a year. The new guide for EMTs starts at 62,000. It's 17 steps and it doesn't get anywhere near that. So, it's really about attracting people at
wages that are above what people pay in Walmart. You can't pay somebody $20 an hour now and expect to get a skilled labor. So, you're just not going to get skilled labor for that. You have to pay. Police officers on the other hand, they're coming in at a lower salary because they know that in a year or two
or three, they're going to be making a heck of a lot more money. And I'm not saying they don't deserve that. These officers that are on the ground. Uh but at the end of the day, we need to attract EMTs. It's a very competitive space. very competitive and a high starting
salary will attract a lot of EMTs. We've already gotten in four days, five days, 50 applicants. So sometimes you pay a little more upfront and you have better opportunity for the town. Uh we don't have a shortage of folks who want to be
police officers for Tom River. Last time we did the test, I think we had 300 applicants and the time before that I believe it was a thousand. At least that's what I think. I could be wrong. It's been a long time. >> Mr. Coleman, may I?
>> Okay. Councilman. >> Um, both the CSO union and the police department unions both have negotiated contracts. The strength of their union helps dictate how well they do in those negotiations. So whether uh it's a 17step program for the CSOS or 12step
program for the police, uh that's up to the union and business administrator to hash those things out. Uh, obviously the police union did a little bit better for themselves, but I got to point out one more time that Mr. Rodrig as a councilman voted yes on both the FOP and
the PBA union contracts last time. So to fall back on that argument, just as weak as many things, thank you. Okay. Yes, ma'am. >> Um, say that same >> Julian Msina court. >> Thank you, >> President Coleman. This is um directly
for you. All the talk about the salaries and the grants and all this stuff, it's very easily settled as the council president. You can have the DCA come in and talk about the grant and it was available and we have a lot of
information about it. Uh I understand that um unfortunately it wasn't on the agenda. So this one we missed. However, as the council president, you can contact the DCA and they would be happy to come here and discuss the grant and
explain everything and you'll hear it right from their mouth. So, I would ask you that maybe the next meeting you invite them and find out about the grant opportunities. I mean, one of the best things we can do for this town is hire a grant writer on a commission base because the more money they bring to the
town, the more money they get paid. and we can find all of these. So directly to you, sir, I'm just asking you to please invite the DCA to come to the next meeting. They're happy to come and they will explain everything. You can do a whole a whole setup. They'll they'll do a whole presentation for you. So I would
ask that you would do that. [Applause] >> Okay. I see nobody else in line, so I'd like to call for a a vote at this time.
Take a motion to close public comment. >> I'll make a motion. >> Tom made the motion and Mul to second it. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> take a motion to move the ordinance. >> So moved. >> Is there first?
>> I'll make that motion. >> Second. A motion was made by Councilman Lamb and seconded by Councilman Quinless. Councilman Lamb. Well, with or without this ordinance, the table of organization of every township department, including public safety, always rest solely with the mayor and
the administration. This has been the case for the past probably several decades. The governing body was never defunding public safety. Our public our sole, excuse me, our sole purpose is to add funding in order to cover critical EMS coverage for the Barrier Island.
That's primarily my award. For the past two years, we've I've asked practically begged the last mayor and administration to fund EMS on the Barry Island. That was ignored and we can't ignore that anymore. The mischaracterization of our
plan and shifting posture by the unions was expected. However, the governing body again knew the decisions solely fell upon this mayor. For the last two years, the majority of Ward One taxpayers again that I represent have p practically begged for ambulance
coverage 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and they don't get that. This governing body is now delivering on a promise to hire a complement of EMT trained community service officers that are within the tent of the police department. Again, they're they work at the police department and it's been
ignored for two years that I've been on council and it can't be ignored any further. For those reasons, I vote yes. >> Councilman Quinn, I have to disagree with most of that statement because I believe Mohill did staff people over there in the summertime when it's most
needed. And I am pretty confident that uh nobody up on this council can tell me exactly how many um ambulance calls we have over on that island, especially this time of year to help justify uh getting rid of four police officers. And it is four because it was two captains.
We were already down required uh or up to uh one police officer and we just didn't hire in another one. So that's two patrolmen and two police off two uh captains. Um I would love to know how many calls on the island are taking 30 minutes. how how many calls on the
island there actually are and how do we justify any of this because uh I'm all for having ambulance where we need them but make sure they're where we need them. >> Your vote. >> Yes. >> Councilman Iverson. >> Yes. >> Council Vice President Oul.
>> Yes. And I would also rect >> he wants it for the island, not your community. >> Say what? >> He wants it for your island. The island, not your community. >> Everywhere. But we have a problem in our barrier island right now. >> We want it everywhere. Council, >> we want it everywhere. However, the
barrier island is ignored after Labor Day to Memorial Day. There's no ambulance coverage over there. >> How many calls? >> I mean, I'll go and show you later. We're we're in the middle of a vote. Council Vice President Oul voted yes. >> Sorry about that.
>> I am voting yes. And I, as I said, I will reiterate what Justin Lamb said. We have problems in our community with the ambulances. And there's something else that bothers me very much. There was a petition
signed by a lot of people And the petition, as far as I'm concerned, was signed under false pretenses because everything that was going around at the time was defunding the police. And nobody has defunded the police.
And that was how that petition was signed. And I feel that petition is not worth the paper it's written on. >> Wow. >> Thank you, >> Council President Coleman. I kind of have to reiterate what Councilwoman Otul said because I did talk to a couple people and asked them
why they did sign and they said they were told that the police department was going to be defunded. Um, we need the ambulances, we need the EMTs, and so I'm going to stick with my vote from before and say yes.
Moving to item eight. Item eight is an ordinance of the township council of the township of Tom's River, Ocean County, New Jersey, authorizing the mayor to execute and the township clerk to attest to a lease agreement with Docsider Marina LLC to to lease a section of block 1097.01,
lot 172 for Township operated recreational kayak launch and associated amenities. This is a first reading. >> Move the ordinance. >> I'll second that. A motion was made by Councilman Lamb and seconded by Councilman Nvice. Councilman Lamb,
>> I want to thank the administration for renegotiating the contract with the Docker. This was important because we had new kayak um basically new kayak racks built. However, the Docker was also a great spot for a few people that prefer to be down there. So, the fact
that we renegotiated the price down, I believe we got a multi-year lease. Um that's going to be beneficial for Whartley Beach and for my residents over there. So, thank you. Can I vote? Um, yes on that. >> Councilman Iverson, >> yes. >> Councilman Quinnless. >> Sure. >> Yes. >> Yes. Sorry.
>> Council Vice President Otul. >> Yes. >> Council President Coleman. >> Yes. Item nine is a resolution of the Township Council of the Township of Tom's River, Ocean County, New Jersey, authorizing the Township of Toms River to accept a grant award from the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs,
Division of Local Government Services, Local Efficiency Achievement Program, LEAP, in the amount of $171,000 for a shared services agreement with the Bureau of Island Heights for waste collection. >> Second. A motion is made by Council Vice
President Otul and seconded by Councilman Lamb. Council Vice President Oul, >> yes. >> Councilman Lamb, >> yes. >> Councilman Nverson, >> yes. >> Councilman Quinnless. >> Yeah. I just want to quickly point out this is a different leap of grant. A
leap grant uh and it's with the burrow of violent Heights. Imagine that. But yes, >> Council President Coleman. >> Yes. Item 10 is a resolution of the township council of the township of Toms River, Ocean County, New Jersey, authorizing the mayor to execute the township clerk to attest to a shared services agreement
between the township of Toms River and the barrier island towns including the burrow of lavallet, the burrow of seaside heights, the burrow of seaside park and the township of Berkeley for EMS services. >> Council President, mayor, my may I jump in?
>> Yes, you have the floor. Mayor, >> over the past few weeks, I've had conversations with the mayors of all four island communities regarding a shared services agreement where we would back one another up. As you know, uh, Lavallet splits Tom River's northern
beaches from Ortley Beach and we have um volunteer services in all of those five communities. Volunteerism is in great decline. Uh so we are going to ask the state to see if we can get a grant that would help us to start up an islandbased
EMS service. This would be in addition to an additional ambulance here on the mainland. Uh so it would be terrific to see if we can get some money for this. Uh but again, just so that everybody understands, this is a one-time grant. It's not something that we could budget on, but it is something that could help
us try this out and see if we can uh service in this way. So, um it would it would allow us to back up these other towns and they would back us up in different orders. Um but but it would have to also be voted on by those
municipalities as well and then we would submit to the state of New Jersey. >> I make a motion. you want to. >> Councilman Quinsz, you have the floor. >> I'm really sorry to be so vocal. Um, I do want to say that uh this got thrown
on agenda. I was uh asked about it at 8:30 this morning when somebody was at their other job and uh I've been trying all day to get more information. I've gotten absolutely no supporting documentation on this. Um I did hear from one of the other mayors that there uh there there was a meeting about this
particular subject and Dan wasn't even there for the meeting that he arranged for for this. Um, I think it's uh wonderful that we're going to try and do this, of course, because it's more money for the town. And yes, we'll get that ambulance that's so desperately needed on the island. Um, and I say that a
little sarcastically, but um the uh Thank you. Um >> um >> I don't think this grant that we're applying for here also has a deadline of April 15th, which is Monday. So, sure, we're going to say yes, and then we're going to have to start working on the
application process, but before the April 15th deadline, each one of those other towns uh would also have to have a a a meeting, and they're going to have to vote yes on it as well. >> Um the uh and yeah, they may allow an exception. There's no doubt. But all that being said, we already have an
application that is ready to go and shut the hell up. And we're ignoring it. We're ignoring that application. And I can't see any justification for ignoring one. If if you can talk to these four mayors, why couldn't you talk to our neighboring mayor that we already have a
leap grant going for? I don't understand what the rationalization is between letting that $400,000 go, but I'm tell Robert's rules. I believe I get a rebuttal. Council President, >> are you finished, Jim? >> Robert's rules or Roberts. Roberts, right? >> Jim.
>> Robert's rules. >> Jim, have you finished? >> Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. >> Go ahead, Mayor. So again, you know, Councilman Quinnless continues to speak about this imaginary agreement and application when there is no vote. What this does, it allows me to enter into an agreement with those towns and then
those towns would have to vote on that agreement, but we can apply by the 15th noting in our application that we're awaiting a ratification from the other municipalities. You would know that you already have that you ignored and you blame Solanis for
>> freak. >> Okay, so listen. I know. >> Let's stay let's stay in order. You'll give your turn, Jim, again. Okay. >> Sorry. I got >> I know, Mr. Quinnless, that you believe that if you say something over and over again, it makes it true. >> I've read Animal Farm as I've read Animal Farms as well,
>> but that the chief of police didn't negotiate an agreement. He wouldn't be allowed to anyway. >> Correct. >> We never negotiated one. And if a crossing guard from Tom's River talks to a police officer in, I don't know, Island Heights, that doesn't constitute an agreement. I've explained in detail
why that would be like equivalent to fraud. But you seem to think that if you say it enough that that's going to change the facts. It doesn't change the facts, Jim. You are completely clueless on this and I've tried to speak to you four times. But it >> I I don't know. Is it that you're
incapable of understanding it? Do you just not care about the people on the barrier island? No. What is it? >> No, I think you just lied too much, Dan. >> No, it's in it's in it's in writing. It's in writing. >> Show me the agreement. >> I believe I emailed
>> Show me the agreement. >> I believe I emailed a copy of the uh >> Show me the agreement. Who negotiated the agreement? >> It's the mayor of Island Heights called me two days ago to say, "Hey, what the heck is all this talk about a shared service agreement in Island Heights?"
>> Dan, you've had >> I don't know what he's talking about either. desk. You could have moved it forward and gotten >> what? You need an agreement. What don't you understand about an agreement? >> Keep repeating that. >> We're doing it right now for >> the mayor of Highland Heights has no
idea what you're talking about, Jim. No idea. You can repeat it 10 times. No one in Heights knows what you're talking about. >> Gentlemen, please. Can we get No one knows what you're talking about. >> Can we please get back? You can say it again. It doesn't change things. >> I am asking if we could please get back
into order. I I have no further comment. This is silly silly silly nonsense. >> All right. >> From a silly man. >> Let's move on. >> Council President, a motion was made by Council Vice President Oul. Is there a second? >> I'll second it.
>> A motion's made by Council Vice President Oul and seconded by Council President Coleman. Council Vice President Oul. >> Yes. >> Council President Coleman. >> Yes. >> Councilman Lamb. Again, while we need EMS services desperately on the beach, unfortunately, I have to abstain due the
inclusion of Lavallet since my relative, direct relative serves on the governing body there. >> Councilman Nverson, >> yes, >> Councilman Quinn, >> I have to ask uh and I know Dan has the answer. Uh do we plan on station station uh stationing one ambulance over there
full-time 24 hours a day? If we get the we are if we get the money we can do more ambulances >> but we're going to station one on the island 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year >> despite no call volume. >> Yes we're going to do that Jim. Yes.
>> There would be there would be higher call volume if we were all in it together. Right. So if Trib is on a call right now there's nobody to answer the call that Tri for another town. Trib is covering three towns. >> Okay. So, if you keep that ambulance
over there on the island, dedicated to the island, >> are they coming over on this side if there's a call? >> Jim, all the details are being worked out. We're applying for a grant right now >> because you said to me that >> you want to vote for it or you don't want to vote for it if you don't want to vote for
>> 24 hours a day. >> We already have mutual aid service agreements, but Quinn, let's vote, please. >> I vote yes because I, you know, I certainly want to see more ambulance. If we can get this grant, that's fantastic. But I I I think it's all really blown out of prop. >> All right, moving to the approval of the bills.
[Music] >> Motion made the bill. >> I'll second that motion. >> A motion is made by Council Vice President Otul and seconded by Councilman Iverson. Council Vice President Oul, >> yes. >> Councilman Iverson, >> yes. >> Councilman Lamb,
>> seem to abstain from bill number 24-01934. Um, yes to the bounce. Councilman Quinnless >> abstain from bill's payable check elevator and remington vernick. Yes to the balance. >> Council president Coleman. >> Yes.
>> Elected officials comments. >> Okay. Um Councilman Lamb, we'll start with you. >> Thank you, Chair. Just want to clear up that you know the six are half a dozen or so of you that come to the meetings and say that uh we're not listening to the six of you. Um that might be how you
feel, but I have to go to uh approximately over a dozen homeowners association meetings. Um at my ward, my ward is very uh it's it's it's a large ward in that there's a lot of home associations on the barrier island and
they come to me and they beg for AMS coverage and they've been doing so for two years and it's being ignored for two years. So, at this point, you know, I have to support this plan because it's the right plan to get ambulance coverage on the beach. Now, my partner over here, Jim Quinsless, might believe that the
call volume is not where he thinks it should be. I I appreciate that opinion. Um, however, that's not what I'm being told on the beach. And I would I would name stories of people that waited 18, 20, 25 minutes, but again, the privacy of those people and those victims, I'm
going to maintain that. Um, but if you come to the meetings, come to Whartley Beach voters and taxpayers meeting, you'll see that two hours or so is pretty much devoted to why don't we have ambulance coverage here 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. After Hurricane or
sorry, Superstorm Stand, you had a lot of homes that were again uh destroyed, allowing for more people to move down here full-time. The population has increased dramatically, exponentially since Sandy.
With that comes more call volume. And again, Jim, I would I would say that just to clear up what you're saying, it's increased exponentially as well. The call volume for first aid. I don't know what numbers you look at, but I can tell you from a personal standpoint and from talking to many people over there,
they want more coverage. Um, that's all this evening. Thank you. >> Okay, Jim. I asked for how many. Not that it's increased exponentially. Yes, if you have one resident and you get one call, that's one. If you get a second resident, that's two. That's a 100%
increase. But are we talking about 100 calls for the whole year? Are we talking about thousands of calls for the whole year on the island? You don't have that information. So, you don't have to worry about chiming in on that. >> Um, I don't have the exact figures, but I'm working on it. >> Of course you are. >> I'm working on it. Don't you worry about it. Um, meanwhile, Tri Borough First Aid
uh does cover Seaside Height, Seaside Park, and even Island Beach State Park. So, there is service over there. May not be the uh 24-hour ambulance sitting there most of the time waiting for very few calls in that area, especially in the winter time. The mayor, like I said earlier, the mayor did do something
about it last year, and it cost us a lot because he was staffing it uh in a different way to make something happen to to make sure that the island was covered >> um in the summertime. Yes. Um, I want to apologize for some of my comments at last week's meeting, and I mean this
wholeheartedly. Uh, last week I made a comment that uh uh I heard more propaganda in that one meeting than uh than I've heard in most of my time doing any government service or any meetings I've ever attended. Uh, I need to amend that to say that was
before I read the D the Dan Rodrik newspaper. Thank you. Um, and I do have to correct, we're down, uh, we're supposed to have 200, I'm sorry, 114 police officers according to everything I've read. We're we're down to 113 before the Maritans instituted
this. And he and we're down one more because of that. So now we're down to 112 officers plus the uh, the two captains. Um, >> and the and as he's saying, we're well staffed. about 20 I mean I hate to repeat myself but apparently only you
guys are listening because 20 years ago they said we were underst staffed 20 years ago the population as he just pointed out including the burial island has increased yet we has we have not increased the the size of our police department I'm not a math teacher but it
looks like uh I think we need more um and lastly I want to congratulate uh um Mr. Coleman please don't get offended uh for being a good uh disciple of Mr. Rodri's cuz I see you got yourself a brand new township car too. That's it.
>> I'll respond to that. I've been given the responsibility of representing the township in ribbon cutings, proclamations, been called down to this uh building numerous times and I've been using my own vehicle with my own fuel and I only
use the vehicle for Tom's River business and that's all I will use it for. and you can come my house and watch and you will see that that's the case. >> Mr. Coleman, as much as I appreciate that and I understand what you're doing with a vehicle, you're the first president in in known history to get one. So, you know, everybody else has been doing the same type of tasks and
nobody else has gotten a car. But I get what happened here. Don't worry. You bought so many cars, Jim, that the basement of the parking lot is loaded with cars. Take one. There's so many cars, Jim, and you wanted to buy more cars this year. You
fought us when we repealed purchasing cars. You fought us on that. $700,000. You said, "Spend it, Dan. Spend it." And now you're worried that the council president is going to a ribbon cutting with a township vehicle. >> I'm very happy. >> You've been driving around fire vehicles for I don't even know how long. Big
giant Taho. >> I am so glad you're >> Are you kidding me? >> Because >> Are you kidding me? So he takes a little tiny Jeep Patriot to a ribbon cutting and you're upset. You've been driving around in township vehicles your whole life with the fire department. I'm so glad you're defending because it's not really for Mr. Coleman. Can I
say this, Jim, please? >> If if that really upset you, let me let me finish. Let me finish. >> If that really upsets you, you know what? I'll turn it in. Okay. It's >> the right thing to do. >> I'll turn it in >> and then I will give the receipts for
gas, mileage, and everything else that for the car that I used, the family car to the township to pay for it. Okay. Is that all right? >> Sure. >> That's That's what you would like, >> right? It is. Listen, it's and the reason why we have so many extra cars down there, and let's not uh confuse the issues again. Uh the extra cars we have
down there is because we're down like 30 town employees since uh January 1st. The cars that I'm talking about that I do vote for are going to be definitely the police office uh police offic I don't want to have you removed. Please, please, >> we're here from the public. You have an
opportunity to speak. >> You can speak, sir, when it's your turn. >> Please be quiet. >> I'm going to Last warning, sir. >> Last warning. >> Last warning. I'm telling you right now. Last warning. >> Don't tell me anything. >> Sir, would you please remove this
gentleman from the room, please? >> Sir, would you please remove him? I've given him several warnings and he refuses to comply. I refuse to comply. Please remove him. Thank you. Let's get back on track here. >> Okay. I kind of actually lost track
where we are. >> My council my >> Okay. Council Quinn. Councilman Iverson. >> Council. >> No comment at this time. >> Councilwoman Otul. Everybody, I respect the people in the audience. I respect what you have to
say. >> I don't think her mic is on. >> Okay. Be polite though. Can you just be polite about it? You don't >> said I respect the people in the audience and I respect what you have to say. But I will say this
uh to I didn't catch your name. I'm sorry. But if everybody agreed with you and did not agree with us, there would be no room for anybody. The town would all be out.
They would be up in arms. I talked to a lot of my people where I live all in and around and they're happy with the way things are going. We got a very large tax increase a
couple years ago and it hurt us very badly. There was a meeting downtown about it. I'm not going to mention names, but it was the old regime at the senior center. And one of the people where I live
went up to one of the councilmen and was actually in tears and he said, "I don't know what to do. I live on a very fixed income and I can't afford this." And the answer was back with no empathy, no compassion, no
anything. I guess you'll have to sell your house. We ran on a no tax platform. We are trying to do the very best that we can for all of Tom's River
and not raise taxes, but do things and get things done. Thank you. Okay, I guess it's my turn. Uh again as president of the council I've been given the responsibility of
conducting a professional organized meeting without interruptions. In the regard in that regard the following procedures will be used. Any individuals who do not show respect for the individual who has the floor by interrupting be given a warning will be removed from the room if the
interruptions continue as we just saw. This goes for council members as well as the public. If you are interested in making comments, please get in line so that time is not wasted uh walking to the microphone. All right? So, if you're going to make a comment, get in line, take your turn. That way, we don't waste
time waiting for you to get out of your seat and coming up to the microphone. If you've made certain comments in the past, please avoid repeating them. The council has a pretty good memory. After hearing the same comments as many as three times, the opportunity will be better spent covering other concerns.
Finally, we're still getting complaints that some speakers cannot be heard. Please stand close to the mic or if that's not possible, hold the mic in your hands. And some people have been doing that and I thank you for doing that. Good job. Thank you for your cooperation and thank you for your respect. At this time, I'd like to open
the floor to public comment. >> Council President, just before that, is it possible that we can in order to have more people speak, if we could drop the minutes to three minutes from five, that way we can get more speakers to speak? If you can't get out what you can say in three minutes, Why? Why can't you have three minutes? >> No.
>> Why not? It's my motion. >> You want to come up and make it? >> I'll second that motion. >> No. >> Want more people to speak? That's all. >> Um, can I just interrupt? I'm sorry. >> There's a motion. >> Yeah. >> There's a motion. All right. I apologize. Go ahead.
>> This This was already brought up at the beginning of the year and we went to five minutes. There's a motion council speaking if we go back to two meetings a a month instead of >> there was a motion made by Councilman Lamb to reduce the second 5minut time limit to 3 minutes and motion was made
by Councilman Lamb and a second by Councilman Niv. Councilman Lamb. >> Yes. >> Councilman Nson. >> Yes. >> Councilman Quinnless. On January 1st, this mayor said he's moving our meetings to 7:00 at night so more people can be
heard. He has done nothing but make it impossible for you to hear be heard. And this is just another example of him trying to quiet you down. >> I'm asking for it's my motion. >> This is another example of somebody on this council trying to quiet you down. The fact of the matter is >> Well, more speakers more. All right.
>> We hear more from We hear more from the mayor than we do from the public. I encourage everybody to get online three times. Can't speak. >> Hell no. Speak fast. >> Council Vice President Otul. >> Yes. >> Council President Coleman. >> Yes.
[Music] >> Speak faster. >> Remember I said if you really have your points well organized, you'll see you'll be able to do it in three minutes. You really will. All right. Okay. Um I believe we're at the point of
>> No, you got it. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I did it again. Apologize. Mayor, Mayor, it's your turn. >> That's okay. We can just go forward with public comment. >> Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Please get in line if you want to speak. Please.
>> Please. >> Go ahead, sir. >> Thank you. Jerry Nappy. I live in Point uh Pleasant Plain Sections, Toms River. I would only like as a courtesy, as you said. >> Can I have your address, sir? Oh, >> sorry. 51 Monroe Avenue, Toms River, New Jersey. I would like to ask as a
courtesy to the people that come here that the mayor when he speaks stand up so the people in the back room can see him. You mentioned people can't hear the microphone, stand closer to the microphone. We'd like to see the mayor face his public and talk to them at the
same time. That would be a comment I would like to make. Whether he sits up there, stands up over there. Thank you. Remember [Applause] people, if you're going to speak, please get in line, please.
Dennis Galante, 11:49 Cherokee Court, Tom River. Uh, boo to you for uh for uh putting it to three minutes uh public comment because really you violated your own resolution back when in the first of
the year when you made it three minutes and then since then you've allowed it to be five minutes. So, you violated your own resolution, >> right? >> Okay. >> Um, Robert's rules of order. So, then I guess that allows someone if that's what
we follow that if I get to speak three minutes, I have another two minutes. Is that the way it works? >> They just made it up. So, >> well, if it's a rebuttal. Okay. >> Um, Oprah requests, emails, Is that the
privilege of the Oprah that's sent to the clerk? Is does the either the council or does the mayor have privilege to look at those emails for open requests being that when I get sent a response from an
open request on the bottom there's a disclaimer that that is between myself and the clerk. So we answer that question. >> I don't look at anybody's Oprah ever. The attorney, I believe, occasionally looks at Opra's depending on disclosure.
Correct. Is that is that correct, Mr. McGuck? >> There are requirements sometimes that the clerk will require legal advice as to whether something is can be released under Oprah, but Oprah requests are not private or privileged. They are also a public record. Anybody can see. >> You're correct. I could Oprah, but I'll
tell you, Mr. Galante, I have enough emails of my own. >> Yeah. >> All right. I asked you about our uh I asked you about our budget meeting. um or when the budget presentation is going to be. So I have the revised from the um local finance board. It gives all the
specifics mayor council Faulner act submission of the annual financial statement deadline February 10th. It should be done by uh March 8th uh 2024. I don't believe that's been done. The introduction of the budget February 10th
2024 to change to March 29th 2024. I don't think that's been done. And the budget needs to be approved or adopted to April 30th. Now, what's funny is I also have on the bottom of this, it says
a local finance notice containing this information should be published next week. In the meantime, please share this information with your municipal finance officer. So, here you go. Actually, I guess >> you can give it to the clerk. He'll give it to >> the clerk.
lose my time while I'm walking fast. When you did the u the fire district resolution. Okay. So, you did correct it and you corrected it by having a public hearing that I knew that you needed and
uh Okay. Thank you. Good evening, Council President Coleman, Council Phil Brilliant, 79 Holllet Tree Lane. Uh, first a thank you out to Council President Coleman and Councilman Quinless for coming out to Congregation Ben Israel on Sunday for an event we had
which celebrated Caner Daniel Green for being in the community for 50 years. Um, in addition, you know, thank you very much. Lo applause, please. We got to keep going. Um, I was wondering task force on MCO. We talked about it back on January 18th. Anything gone on that yet? >> It's been in discussion.
>> In discussion. Okay, good. We're moving. Um, I saw something that there's going to be another engineering report for the parking lot. Is there a due date on that? >> Did you want me to answer because you only have three minutes? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there Yeah. Is there a due date on the on the report? We didn't have a physical report come
in, but we had the engineer discuss with us and he confirmed but again I want to see it in writing. He confirmed that the structure is not structurally it's not structure structurally uh what's the compromised and that uh it really just needs to be in that stairwell needs to
be taken care of and then painting the stairwell. And then he also suggested that there were roof problems uh that were not identified in the prior report. Um and that those roof problems are the cause of the deterioration in the stairwell uh which I believe you
probably saw on News12. I spoke about that there. But having the report actually um handed to us yet? No. But we've gone over all of that with the engineering firm and that it's the biggest as you know because you're in engineering. They are the biggest >> I got it >> municipal firm in the state of New
Jersey. So they're very competent, very competent firm. >> Will that go out to bid again? You most probably >> it'll go out with different specs. So the specs will focus on the damaged areas and not the rest of the building. Okay. Um I think you know we've already talked about the police department. I think you know they've done a fantastic
job. They do a fenda job in this town. I know we're talking about crime going up. There's a lot of homes in Northover and other areas being affected. But I think it's you know two things are important. one is we have the greatest police department in the state of New Jersey. And two, you know, when you take money
from positions and move it somewhere else, there's no nothing else you're doing but defunding. So, I think saying it wasn't defunding is wrong because you're moving the money somewhere else. Last thing is, we talked about it a couple minutes ago, now we're down to three minutes. You know, there's nothing wrong with being wrong. There's a lot of
business going on in this town. I think you should consider two meetings a month. I think calling these special meetings, you were missing two council people tonight. I think setting an agenda before, like you said, to be organized. When an agenda comes out at 3, four:00, it's changed. It's really
tough to do it when a meeting's at five. So, we're doing our best, but I think you're going to do count two council meetings a month. You've done four special council meetings in four months. Let's just go to two meetings a month. Set a schedule. You can, correct me if I'm wrong, council, you can cancel a
meeting if it's in up in time to do so in advance. >> Council decides what their meeting schedule is. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And they've decided. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Dana Tormolan, Messenger Street. Um, I'm going to use my time to thank the mayor
for all the positive things he's done in his first 100 days. Thank you first and foremost for allowing me to realize that there are still some very wonderful people in this world. Your attempts to eliminate police jobs has brought the town closer than it has been in years. People coming out to rallies and petition sh signings to show their
support for our police officers has opened up so many opportunities to meet wonderful people and the best residents. The residents you despise, even though some of them were part of the 69% of the 18,000 voters that voted for you in November. And if the rest of the 72,000 voters had voted, we may not be here
right now. Thank you for all the efforts you have put into closing our our township animal shelter. Once again, you have opened a door for so many more friendships to be built around the fact that there are so many wonderful township employees who along with the residents do what they can to make sure that our local animals have safe, clean,
caring place to go when they are in their most vulnerable state. I'm on a time limit. Thank you for showing us that safety of the residents is not top on your on your list of priorities. not only by not filling police jobs, but by teaching us that a coat of paint will fix any structural
problem, whether it be in a crumbling parking garage or on the side of Bailey Golf Course. Thank you for allowing us to see that due to party lines, voters will vote blindly for the party they feel best and do not do their research as to who they actually are voting for. Maybe this has been a learning experience for a lot of people and in
June during the primary, they choose a candidate, whether it be a Republican or a Democrat, but someone who has been loyal to their beliefs for more than 90 days. Thank you for showing us how uninformed counsel who follows the lead of a dictator can be influenced so easily when they're allowed to when they aren't allowed to answer their questions
without a script in front of them. Kind of like the script that was given to the press regarding their election questions and answered when they didn't answer for themselves. You did it for them. Thank you for allowing us to see that there's always a price tag that can buy any politician who is weak. I mean, look at the state of our country, state, and now
our town. Thank you for allowing those of us who are unfamiliar with the likes of Mr. Solonis and Mr. seem to see what they actually are. Lying, scheming, bullies. I guess it takes one to no one. Thank you for the recreation opportunities as well as the plan for five minute fireworks shows scheduled
five dates this summer that you have tried to put in place, but we will see if they come to fruition due to the D, DOT, and CA and CAFRA. But most of all, I want to say thank you for making me realize how much I love this town and how many wonderful residents there are in it and how many council people need
to follow in suit of what the residents are asking them and not the dictator or the mayor. Mr. Mr. Galante Mr. Galante I would just like to ask that Mr. Galante usually Mr. Galante always prepares very
thoughtful comments and questions and >> the school board just so you recognize and I know you know this is three minutes. I just respectfully ask the council that we allow him to have the full time for his comments if he so chooses. >> Okay, I'm going to beg your pardon
because you're wrong. It's three minutes on agenda items and it's five minute in public comment. Look it up. >> You may be right. You go more than I do. >> You go more than I do. I watch, but you go all the time. >> Okay. You didn't answer my question about the budget, but I don't want you
to take up my time. I appreciate. >> Would you like Would you like it? You could p You could pause and I'll answer for him. Pause, please, if that's all right. So, your question on the budget, just reiterate for me real quick. >> Yeah, I just gave the paperwork. >> We We were Would you like Mr. Solanis?
We We We're constantly in touch with the DCA. So, as you know, our CFO um left Okay. >> Okay. So, the CFO prepares the budget. We hired a firm to come in and do it. They're working on it. We're we're in talks constantly with the Department of
Community Affairs. I you know, and um we're meeting all of the guidelines uh as we should. >> Not by according to the paper that I have. >> Would you would you address >> our our budget consultant spoke to the state? They told us that we could have an extension to the next regularly
scheduled public meeting, which is April 24th. >> Okay. and and and it looks it looks like we're not going to have a tax hike. >> We didn't have them four years ago. Thank you. >> No one in here claps for that. >> It make no one no one in here claps for
the fact that we don't have a tax increase >> that we're not going to have a tax increase. Doesn't Does it matter to the folks >> in this room? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Clock me in. >> Matters to the folks in Holiday City,
doesn't it? you already have have had a a time period a limit on how many people can speak and I think it's uh 30 minutes okay public comment 60 minutes or something there that you can limit >> it it was 90 minutes you'll notice that
I did not announce that tonight and that was for a reason >> all right >> okay >> but what's the point of I mean All right so my last question to you is the uh uh I asked for the full text of the consent
agenda resolutions. Has that been discussed as was said it would be at the last meeting that it was also said if I saw the tape that it would something may be presented at the next meeting. Was it
discussed? >> Mr. Sakosi tried to make a >> I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. So bear with me. Okay. All I know is that now I I can go on my computer when the agenda comes out and go through each item and it gives me a chance to go into
the explanation for those particular items. >> Can I? >> I don't know, >> Mr. Coleman. >> And that's that said, does each and every one of you read each and every resol consent agenda resolution before you vote to approve or disapprove? Do
you read them in the entirety that you get all the information you need to make a vote? I just Mr. Galante, I did I did just explain earlier on about the computer system that was installed by Mohill on his way out and and and how how the items were coming onto the
agenda. So, that was really just rectified. I think you and I have had a number of conversations over the years. You're always a transparency guy and so was I. I think you always compliment me on that. And I'm just curious as to where where the sudden change is coming from because there haven't been those
items haven't been sitting on this table since about 200 I don't know, 19. And now you're asking about them, but in meetings past, you didn't ask about them. >> Yes, I did. >> I don't recall. But we have a new system
now. The system's up and running. We inherited it and we're working with it. >> Greg McGucken was council president. >> Oh, that's a long time ago. That's a That's a real long time ago. >> Thank God. >> And a good one at that. The consent agenda resolutions used to
be oneliners and I brought that up back then and I made the the Mark Mutter. I removed every consent agenda from that uh agenda from A to Z and asked for each and every one of them to be read in
their entirety after three of them. I did you know didn't want to put Mark Mutter to task but >> Mr. Did did council >> did I hear you correct that you now you have the computer so you could see the consent agenda >> or using the computer so you can see it. >> Yeah.
>> You're supposed to be creating the consent agenda. Not >> what I'm trying to talk to you about is that so that I understand the particulars for each of the items. Okay. And I go through that >> Jim. >> It's just it's it's difficult that you
have a problem with everything. Jim, and I and I'd like you as a person, but why do you have a problem with every single thing? >> I'm just You have a job to do, >> council. Council President, I I think earlier on I I addressed the way the system has always worked. Uh, and you're here how many months now, sir?
>> Three, right? So, don't don't worry about what he says. He's just >> I understand. >> Just makes it up as he goes along. >> All right. Let's move on. Sir, are you finished? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> ma'am. Remember, if you're going to speak, I really would like you to get in
line so that we don't waste time while you come up from your chair and then, you know, getting to the microphone. Thank you. Go ahead. >> Irene Watson, Messenger Street. I'd like to address the Tom's River Bulletin. A lot of people dislike it, liked what was
printed. Some people liked it, they agreed, or they disagreed. But at least you know what the mayor has done or is planning to do. Uh they had articles on the EMTs, the police
department, the animal shelter, a Hilda good Gordon's hundth birthday, the senior center, the kayaks, the Easter Bunny. I think this was all interesting. And again, you might not like what he's
written, but at least you have, you know what's on his mind. I've never received anything like this before and I like knowing what's going on in the mayor's mind or in the councilman's mind. I also
appreciate it, not Tom's River, but I appreciated that Congressman Chris Smith writes a report and sends something that looks like a newspaper. Um, he had a very good article on human human
trafficking. I think this is this is just so so important for people to know. Uh the previous publication was on the wind turbines that were being put out in the ocean or plan to be put out. Um one
other publication I'd like to know about why was the Tom's River Times removed from the lobby. >> Mr. Pascarella, should you? >> Well, we looked at the uh township code. The township code is pretty explicit
that there's only advertisements. >> Advertisements are only uh permitted in certain designated areas of the township and downstairs in the lobby is not uh one of those designated areas. I understand that it's been there for a while, but um
>> and there was no lease either. Correct. >> Correct. There was no lease. >> There was no lease. So >> So showing favoritism to one publication. Um and obviously we can't have a million publications down there all over the place. So that's why it was removed. >> Um, real quick on the ambulance, there's
all different ideas on how to put an ambulance over on the island. I think the one thing that people have to realize, >> an ambulance >> is like a hospital on wheels. A police car
h has about a dozen life-saving pieces of equipment. an ambulance have has hundreds of things not only different items but items that will fit a neonatal a baby to an adult. They are very well
verssed in talking to the people in the hospital. So when they come into the emergency room they will know exactly what they're dealing with. So even if it's one person if that one person is dying that mini
hospital is there for them an earlier previous >> ma'am I'm sorry I have to cut you off your time is up okay I apologize >> but you can come back for a second shot if you want >> all right thanks >> okay Paul
>> Paul Williams Broad Street Toms River March about 57 years ago Martin Luther King said that A riot is the voice of the unheard. And that came to mind just a few minutes
ago when I saw the motion made by Councilman Lamb and by a majority of the council members was approved to limit the time from 5 to 3 minutes. I don't know what that thought processes may have been, but saving two minutes during
public comment um just it just struck me as another example of this council doing this council and as well as the mayor and as his and his business administrator maneuvering in ways to
limit people's input before this council. When I came up here originally, Council President, you took an initiative before I even said anything to suggest or demand or ask or ask
>> question >> or ask that I not speak about my history. >> Right. >> If that's something that I want to do at every single council member uh council meeting, I'm allowed to do that. Let me let me finish.
>> You're I'm just saying you're right. Okay, that was just a request of me personally, but you are absolutely 100% correct. You can bring up that every single meeting if you wish >> during public during public comment. >> Nobody asked for anything. Nobody asked anything. Shut your mouth.
>> Oh, I should shut my mouth. >> All right. All right. I just want to let make be clear that was simply a request for me. Nobody else. But as a council president and as a and as a government official to say that to a citizen, you may not have intentionally done it, but
you you threatened to quell >> I did not threaten. It was a simple request. No, I'm not going to hear you out if you're going to tell me I'm threatening. I'm not. I'm just telling you that was just a request between you and me and that's it. >> In legal terms, in legal terms, when a
government official suggests, asks When in my opinion, and I guess we'll we'll work it out in court where you'll get paid extra, right, Mr. McGucken? But in my opinion, when a government
official suggests, tells, asks a civilian to not do something, it has the capacity in and of itself, even if it was innocently done, to quell that person's freedom of speech. >> Can I ask you a question?
>> Sure. Wouldn't that be a violation of his first amendment right? >> He's a council president. In this capacity, he doesn't have a first amendment rights. >> He does. >> Well, he does not. Not when he's running a meeting. He does not. Shut up. Nobody's talking to you. >> First amendment right >> respect you. All right.
>> And nobody asked you to say anything either. This isn't a riot, council president. This is not a riot. And this is what I'm talking about. You have people that And there there goes Lamb. Right. >> They can't help themselves. You don't get to do that. You don't get to attack
someone and then want to quum at the same time. >> Next speaker, please. >> Your time is up. [Applause] >> Yes. Bob Tremolan, Messenger Street, Tom's River. Um, last meeting, uh, Mr.
Rodri made the statement that the previous administration, his favorite words, uh, spent $500,000 to, uh, replenish Ortley Beach. I just would like you to know that that was a lie. Uh the exact cost was $34,000
900 or $34,000 $913.13. So there was a uh another prefabrication put out there by the mayor. Uh number two is how come there's no videos? Is there any reason that as soon as this meeting is over there's no videos?
There's no replays. You can't get anything? >> Don't ask. >> Okay. I'm not wasting my time on that one because it's because obviously you don't want this people to see what a joke this is. Uh number three here. Um
Mr. Quinslick, you mentioned something about Mr. Coleman having a car. Uh I'm wondering if Mr. Rodri, are you still driving your car to school that the town's paying for? Um number three is I found figured out a great way to save money.
We have a part-time mayor. Pay him a part-time salary. He has a job all day long, takes our town car, drives it to school, pay him part-time. We don't have a full-time mayor. We used to, in the previous administration, we had a full-time mayor. We don't have a
full-time mayor. I think his salary should be based on the amount of time he actually puts in here a day. Thank you, Mr. Uh, my name is Chris Raymond. I Mr. Tomolins kind of stole my thunder. I wasn't going to bring this up, but Mr.
Quinnless spoke about the use of township vehicles. You know, Mr. Coleman, you drive a vehicle in this town, I don't have a problem with that, but who on the governing body is going to follow the ordinance which states you cannot take a township vehicle? I believe it's 20 some odd miles out of Thomas River. Who's going to who's going
to govern over this? Who's going to tell the mayor he can't take a township vehicle to Middletown? Who's going to do that? Nobody. And and and when Mr. Mullen speaks about the salary. We're we're cutting police. I know Mrs. Oul, you don't believe that, but we are
defunding the police and not only that, I believe it was one of the previous meetings where we cut the purchasing of new police vehicles. So, we have plenty of vehicles supposedly in the garage. We're cutting the police. We're cutting their vehicles and we're allowing the
mayor to drive wherever he wants. The shell game comes to an end eventually, gentlemen. I've given you guys many opportunities to get in front of this. You're not going to listen to me clearly. But I I tell you, this is not Tom's River. And I can assure you, Mrs. Oul, people of Tom's River are waking
up. They're not going to put up with this. So, you can limit our speech. You can limit the meetings. We're not going away. So, have a good have a good night. uh Julie Adam Cedar Grove Road in Tom's River. Um I wanted to speak about two things. One also about the Tom's River
bulletin which a couple of residents brought up. Um I was really very dismayed to look at that uh publication when it came at Easter time. Um and I actually got the the prior letter that had come in the mail from the mayor with the police salaries. It was pointed out
at a prior uh town council meeting that the salaries were not accurate on uh they did not tally up correctly and there was some excuses uh given uh at the meeting but then when I compared them in the bulletin uh that came in the
mail the same figures showed up. So that tells me that that was not innocent. That was done deliberately because if it was innocent, the error would have been corrected. And when this was published, these the salary the salary list for the police were put in this bulletin. They
would have been corrected by that time. So uh there were false statements about the Tom's River Animal Shelter. Um, fortunately, uh, for the for the residents of Tom's River, we had rain that canled the Easter egg hunt because
I don't know about you, but personally, I think as a resident, $7,000 to be moved from one budgetary category to another uh, for a for an Easter egg hunt sounds exorbitant. We're supposed to be
saving money. Now, nobody's against having an Easter egg hunt, but maybe those eggs were filled with gold or something because I saw a box of plastic Easter eggs at Walmart full price, 250
of them for $10.99. The week after Easter, $2.50. So, maybe if you want to do this next year, you should buy them on clearance like everybody else does. But um like I said, that to me is exorbitant. I could
see $500 for an Easter egg hunt. I could see $1,000. But $7,000 sounds absolutely outlandish. So that's my comments today. [Applause]
Joe Nardini, Derry Drive, Tom's River, New Jersey. Council President Coleman, I respectfully ask you this question. At a prior meeting, it was mentioned that our parking garage needed no work. There was a a you were able to vote on having it
repaired. Uh, everybody up here, most mostly everybody up here said it doesn't need any repairs. We had one person sitting here who said they were a um had a background in engineering. He says, "I examine it. There's nothing wrong with it. We had another person up here who
says it doesn't even need paint now. Why? Why? In a few days later, there's pump jacks under it holding up the structure. Who knows if the pump jacks are on a substrate that's going to hold the structure. All of a sudden, now it needs
repairs. What happened? How did it just fall into disrepair? a main header is is in disrepair. This place can collapse and cause a catastrophic failure. That place can collapse and all of a sudden somebody or
prior in a prior meeting it says doesn't even need paint. What happened? Nobody's really following up on things. It's like a bunch of yo-yos over here just following what's they're being told to say. What happened in the past couple weeks?
Can I comment on that? Well, let me just answer one question. >> Sure, >> sir. >> Yes. >> I never said that the garage didn't need >> I didn't say you said I don't want to mention the two councilmen who said >> Okay. I was going to say because I never >> I know you said I'm not saying you did.
I don't want to mention names. >> All right. Thank you. Okay. The contract called for paint. >> No, it did not call for paint. If you read the contract, >> the title of it was for painting. It was No, it was representative painting. I personally inspected the entire garage. >> That's correct. I didn't want to mention
your name. >> I came back. I came back immediately and said, "We need to get an engineer in here ASAP." >> Not what you said at the meeting. You says, "It doesn't even need paint." >> No, this was before I This was before I did the inspection.
>> I said, "Let's >> We had an engineer in here. We had I think it was Maser or Kier's engineering come in and says, "This place is in harm's way. Okay, Mr. Mr. Nardini, I know you're in construction for a long time, right? Nardini Electric and School, you managed the whole the whole
project for the school referendum, right? While you're on schoolion, >> we had a report from Collier. I said this earlier, maybe you weren't here at the time. The report from Collier said it was nonstructural. Said it needed to be patched and painted so that it wouldn't rust the steel anymore. That's
what was in there. The contract was for, excuse me, was for $500,000 because it included a lot more than just the stairwell. Mr. Quinnisk and please extend this time when we're done. Mr. Quinnless sat up here on this day and said that that was
structural. So at that point, given that there was a conflict between what Mr. Queenless was saying public publicly and what we had in the cyers report. We had a responsibility to the people of Tom's River to have that reinspected. It's been reinspected and they've confirmed
that is not structural. It will be repaired and it will be taken care of for a lot less than a half a million dollars. >> In all due respect, >> no, not in all due respect. Those are the facts, sir. Read it in a report. Are you done? >> Yes. >> Okay. In all due respect, mayor. Okay.
You're wrong. Because if this All right, quiet. Listen to me. If this was nonstructural, why were there pump jacks holding up the structure? >> They're not pump jacks. >> Yes, they are. There's a piece of plywood. It's been like me. It's been
like this for 5 years. >> Okay. Why? 3 months and it's being fixed. Why are they there? Do you think they're there for fun? Do you think they're there so they don't collapse? You think it >> they're there to hold up the they're there to hold up the crack of cement
that was done months ago. >> What do you think? There's one. >> It's not structural. >> They're not. >> So, so you're saying that you just said that Maser was one of the best engineering firm that I just said that we bought and then CME. So, you're saying that you Joe Nardini, the
electrician, you know, structural, but Maser and CME don't. Did not. That's ridiculous. I did not study. Creepy trying to put words in school. Amen. >> Do not put words in my mouth.
Ridiculous. >> I did not say what he said. >> Please just stop for a minute. We're going to remember what I said before. We can argue from now until next freaking psychopath. Listen to >> Why is there five punch holding people without you interrupting me, please?
>> Yes, absolutely. >> Okay, I can tell you why there's John holding it up. Excuse me, Tom. Who are you? >> I'm I have the floor right now. >> We're not going to get anywhere just having outrageous arguments. Okay, you have your opinion and you made your
point. I heard you. Okay, we're going to do our best to as soon as possible to take care of whatever problems is with the garage. And I think that's the bottom line is that we're going to get it fixed one way or another. We're going to get it fixed and it's going to be fixed correctly.
>> Okay, sir. But I want it on record. I did not say mayor's maser's the best. I did not say it didn't need this or that. That man put that out there. I did not say listen to the recording. >> We're past we're past that. And I just I made a commitment to you. >> Sir to you. >> All right.
>> I respect you. >> I thank you, sir. >> I don't respect him, but I respect you. >> Thank you. And and I appreciate you stopping when I asked you to stop. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. Anything else, sir? >> No. Have a good day. And thank you. >> All right. You, too. Thank you very much. How to follow that up?
>> Excuse me, gentlemen. Could you remove this man? You removed him once and he's back. I'd like him removed. Patrolman, please remove him. He has no right to come back. >> I'll reclaim my time. >> No. No, you can't. You're removed from the room, sir. You're supposed to leave.
You are to leave. You are to leave this room now. Now you are to leave this room. This gentleman is going to let you escort you out. No, you're not going to speak. >> Sir, please remove this man immediately.
Please, >> please. >> I watch the video with him. >> Please remove him immediately. And I will sue you. >> And I'm surprised you [Applause] >> Please leave him. Get him out of the
room now. I've asked three times. Please remove him and have him outside the room. Outside of the room. >> Okay, >> sir. It's your when we get this under control, it's your floor. >> We'll end that now. Okay. I'm going to
follow both these guys up, but I'm I don't have nearly as much energy. Uh Tom Fidella Jaclyn Court. Um, in 2016 I was in Seaside Heights and I was assaulted while trying to break up a
fight. Uh, my orbital socket was broke. My orbital floor crushed. I had a laceration on my right eye. Had the laceration been a little bit worse, I could have been blinded and disabled for life because I'm legally blind in my left eye.
as the kind Seaside Heights police officer threw my license into into the rocks and uh didn't stop to to to provide any well didn't continue to provide any assistance.
I had someone drive from Fork River all the way to Seaside to pick me up and drive me to a hospital where I was given emergency surgery. So, let me say thank you to the EMS. Let me say that. Okay, for that case it was needed and I'm sure there are many more
instances where that's needed. Now that I've also shown that I don't universally back the blue, uh, Governor Murphy said that if we want to live in a state with low taxes, then we shouldn't live in New Jersey.
While I completely disagree with that statement, there are a couple things I'm willing to pay taxes for. Okay? And that's police when they say it's needed. And that's EMS. So
I think it was Edund Burke who said those that don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. 2020 was a tumultuous year. We're about to we're about to head into an election that's going to look very
much the same. Our population is up. Crime is up. We don't know truly how much our population is up by. I don't think that it's smart to put a a headcount on the number of policemen
because if you can negotiate a budget, you could always negotiate that price down by making the argument that doubling up cars at times would actually make police officers safer. you know, as we just saw, I think just today or yesterday, there
was there was a you know, a shooting a shooting with a police involved shooting with um just on a on a traffic stop, which is one of the most dangerous stops they can make. So, um I think that's something that we need to look at and I think that's something we need to be just kind of in consideration of and if
not, you know, on an ongoing basis, at least have a contingency plan for this year where situations can get, you know, can get rough. And and just the last thing, and I I'm would welcome your comment. Last time I was here, I talked about the times of animal shelter numbers. Uh
thank you, Mary, because you did you did provide me with with a source to go find those. And then I know some people would like to open a request. I'm going to finish because I had to wait. Um so what I what I did was I I did go and I put through those numbers uh all the raw numbers from the intakes to the
adoptions to the euthanize to the reclaims. Um I did it for 21 22 23. Now I have I have a a comparison a summary sheet here and I also have it broken down by year. I know this is on the next agenda I guess for us to vote on this.
>> You want to give it to me? I'll look at it. >> Well I'll Yeah, I'll give this to you and I'm going to make sure that everyone here actually has an advanced copy of it. Well, I I'm make sure we have more copies, so I'll get I'll get you them, but I want to make sure that everyone has has uh has the chance to actually
review the information that you're going to be voting on. So, I I'll make sure that I provide the information to you as well. >> Thanks. >> I'm happy to explain how I came up with those numbers, too. So, that's it.
[Applause] Ma'am, you've been up twice. Could you let the gentleman behind you go, please? Thank you. >> You want me to keep it or no? Or you want it? >> Alan Alano, Bon Avenue, Tom. You're >> saying they're comparable. >> Uh, thank you all for hearing me last meeting when it came to the
privatization of animal control. I think it was very smart of everybody to curb that discussion and very brave. And I just real quick logistically the the animal shelter and animal control are two separate departments but
we work out of the same building. So logistically I'm just food for thought for the next and final vote. If correctly we're not going to privatize animal control which I think is a mistake. Where are we supposed to
work out of if you close the shelter down? Are we moving here to Washington Street? The mayor has said that the shelter for that million dollars won't cost the taxpayers any money for at least two years. So, it's just food for thought before uh you vote final on the animal
shelter. Thank you. [Applause] >> Julie Adam, Cedar Grove Road, Tom's River. Um I just wanted to touch base
again on the animal shelter and I want everyone in the audience to know everybody listening on YouTube today that um come the 24th uh there was there's the legal notice coming that came out that that's going to be voted
on uh the status of the animal shelter whether it's going to be ultimately leased to the county and the uh Toms River bulletin um uh things that have come out from town hall have been uh reflecting information that dates back
to 21 uh statistics as far as euthanasia etc. Um the uh and they just seem to be rehashing the past rather than looking at the mo most current data. So I think that the public needs to really realize
that the uh adoption rate for the township is superior to that of the county for animals. The uh township also accepts wildlife. Um they go and respond to injured wildlife. The county would not do that. And uh the euthanasia rate
is lower. Um for the uh township versus the county, especially when it comes to cats. Um the cats uh at the county, the euthanasia rate is about one and one out of four. So I just want everybody to
keep that in mind. And I'm asking you to um uh do a f further uh research on this before you take that final vote. >> Good evening. My name is Jody Cayaza. I don't live in Tom's River, but I've been an Ocean County resident for 40 years.
I've been asked to kind of speak on behalf of the Toms River Animal Shelter as I worked with them um a couple years ago on a big horde of over 100 rabbits. My background is I run a nonprofit small
animal rescue, been doing rescue for 40 years, have worked with shelters throughout New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania. my experience with the shelter and I don't know a lot about the politics behind this which is probably a good thing because I don't have a lot of skin in the game. I'm just here to
report my experience. Worked with them like I said they got all these rabbits in. They were not equipped to handle. Most shedlers cannot handle 100 200 animals at one time. They did a fantastic job working with other
shelters, other rescues. Put the word out that they needed supplies. supplies came in, an overabundance of supplies that they again in turn uh shared with other rescues that took animals from them. Um
my bottom line is everybody has to work together. They did a fantastic job of doing that. And like I said, I have no skin in the game. I'm just here to talk about the shelter. And I apologize if tonight's meeting was not the right time to do that, but I was asked to come.
Thank you very much. [Applause] Art Anderson, 12 Park Street. Uh, the question I have is in previous meetings, we always had department managers from
either engineering or all the different departments to answer questions from both the residents and the council members, especially when you're voting on situations that they're in kind of charge. Is there any way we can go back to that? because instead of just getting questions and we're not really getting
the right answers from the department heads and the people that really are in charge, is there any way we can go back and do that? >> I'll tell you what, can I jump on that? I always liked I never liked that the last two years. I I think that the council members should be able to answer anything put from any res. I know that everybody focuses on a council
president. He's been here 90 days or whatever. I always like when people ask the council members directly and then council member should have a direct answer back to you and if you don't have the exact answer, he should call you back the next day where he should wait after the meeting and spend more time with you. That's that's usually how I handle things.
>> But the problem is we're not getting the right answers. >> Well, if you ask me something, I'll answer or I'll stay after and talk to you even further. Are are you referring to the to the parking lot as far as engineering? >> Well, everything will you do you're you're great at Oprain. you know the the
report now I know in the report specifically said the first report that was done it's been written about in the paper Gene Mickel did a great article about it uh Karen Wall did a great article the first report said it was non-structural but could develop into structural if we didn't patch it up Mr.
Quinnisk insisted it was structural. I ordered another report. It I don't have the physical report, but CME has said as non-structural. So, I'm trying to engage you and give you the information that I'm reading in the report. Unlike unlike the prior administration that relied on
the engineer, I read the report. So, uh we did bring in a firm. They're getting their feet on the ground here and they're just just uh just getting started. As you know, uh, we had an engineer, uh, leave and we brought in a a great firm and there were three guys
that rotate in and out and they're they're getting their they're getting their feet wet, but we do intend to eventually have them coming to meetings, Mr. >> But some of these meetings, we're voting on stuff. We can't get back to you and I understand what you're saying, but we're voting right now and getting back the
next >> No, but but this C council as far as like this topic about the parking garage, we have except for Mr. Quinnless who won't take my calls. I've spoken to every member of council about this numerous times and they've all been
updated on it. I think Mr. Mucken knows about it. Everybody knows about it. So, and there's a report and I know there's some news coverage. Um but but I was pretty clear from the beginning and the reports are all available and basically what we did is we spent some some more
money to double check. I don't know uh what the difference is between me telling you that and former engineer Bob Shankalian telling you that. But I'll try my best right now. But yes, in answer to your question uh once we once we get things settled again it's only
been 90 days then we will bring them in. And if you have more questions you know they'll >> Mr. I just to answer your question honestly uh they've been fired or quit before they got fired or got their head shot. That's why that's why that's why
the profession Jim professor is not here for us. >> I did not recognize you Jim. You're out of order the professors are not here to answer questions. >> You're out of order Jim. Come on. I asked you to be >> you know what I lied. >> I said you're out of order. I didn't say
you lied. I said you're out of order. Okay. And I've been good to you. Every time you've waved to me, I recognize you. All right, sir. >> Maybe Mr. Anderson would like to continue. >> I just like I says, I think we should have somebody here that knows what we're instead of us just arguing here. If we had somebody that was in charge that
could tell us what we're doing or what's on what's on that agenda. Like I said, we're getting the agenda very late. So, we're not even really getting to see what's on it, never mind getting back to somebody before the meeting. >> Well, I tried to get the agenda to you earlier this time. Um, we're working on it. and also your re your recommendation
and your suggestion. We certainly will consider that. >> Mr. Anderson, you do recall though that the agenda was not available any more than a day or two in advance for many years. Correct. >> Listen, I'm not going one. >> No, I mean I just in fairness to council president
both ways, but this is the worst. This is definitely the worst. >> Two two days. We had it out two days. I >> We used to walk in here just an hour. We get an agenda an hour before the meeting. >> Can Mr. Mus talk please. >> Huh? >> Can I ask a question? I'm not I'm not sure. >> Well, can I ask him a question too? Have
I not mind too that town hall is open Monday to Friday 8:30 to 4:30. You're welcome to file an open request. You're welcome to come down and speak to us. It doesn't just have to be at the council meeting. I mean, we are open. >> But have I not come down to the count to the town and ask you for the minutes and you've told me multiple times during
that day that they're not yet ready. >> The minutes for a council meeting, >> it's a yes or no question. the minutes for any council meeting in any municipality aren't aren't ready until they're approved to the next meeting. >> Well, that's what I'm trying to say. We're we're not we're I'm a resident, so these guys should be getting away
before. So, if we're not getting it, they're not getting. So, how are we voting on stuff that nobody's going to see? >> That's actually a better That's actually a better question for the clerk regarding the minutes. You prepare the minutes, Mike. Correct. >> The minutes or the agenda? >> The agenda. >> Oh, the agenda. >> Sorry. I'm sorry. The agenda. Okay. Well, as you acknowledged, the agenda
was not always ready. Actually, it was Justin and I. We would have it an hour before the meeting. >> Sometimes I got it when I walked in and I had to read fairly quickly. But that's just me. But like I going back to your last point, I never like the practice of certain council members from previous
administrations that would just default to the to the professional in the room and not have the answer. You should have the answer about everything on this. Excuse me, Jim. Now, I know you're pointing at the council president. Council president has been on a job for 90 minutes, 90 days, excuse me. And his
job is to move the meeting. That's his primary job. I think I told you last meeting, maybe you forgot, but his primary role is to move the meeting. But going back to this resident's question, our job is to know the answers. And if we can't have the answer readily available, we should meet you after the
meeting and get that professional on the phone and and have a full full answer, not just an open request. It should be direct to you. >> I agree with you. And again, if we don't have the if we don't have the answers and you don't have the answers, we shouldn't be voting on it. That's why >> Well, no, I'm going to I always have the answer. Two years I've always had it.
>> Sir, sir, by the way, uh just so that you're aware, there's also no requirement for an agenda by law. The confusion is for a special coun by little stuff like that. I'm saying that we've Let's do it right. I know what you're saying with lawyers, lawyers. OJ was also innocent.
>> Oh, right. Well, now he's dead. So, >> is he dead? died today. >> Carlos Ammons won him. So, first and foremost, I got to say is I haven't seen you guys, not one yet at the
neighborhood watch meeting. Our crime rate has been up. From the first time that I came to this meeting this year to last week when I went to the meeting, I haven't seen not one of you guys. Our crime rate went up.
I'm glad it's not in my area that went up. Ashley, one and two. Sorry, mayor. Your area and your area. The crime is up. I warned you guys. If we look weak at the beginning of the year, that crime is coming up from north coming down here.
How I know? I don't want to say it, but guys, you live in a rich area. >> Excuse me, Guilford Park. I live in Guilford Park. Is that what you're referring to? >> Uh, no. You live in a rich area where >> rich? What rich area you referring to? >> I live in a rich area.
>> Your house is very nice. >> I live in >> Your job is very nice. I live in Warham uh financial help and everything. >> I think all of is very nice. >> I thought I was going to say that. I don't know what you >> the nicest town. All areas are very nice. >> Okay. So, how about this? How about we
have dinner at my house, guys? >> You you cooking back, please. So that's I I'm invited and I will pay for this standard. So it's not under tax. That's off. So that's that. Now, Councilman President, I respect you and
I admire you because you were put in a chair without not knowing a shebang and you're trying your best. So I'm going to give you your you are doing very good, but we need to improve the five minutes. We got to put it five because we cannot
cut down just because a gentleman wants it to three minutes. We don't got enough time to speak our voice and you can see it right now. So, we should go back to five. Two, let's forget about the past. The past is done. Let's move forward. They had 20
days to put the agenda. Guess what? Let's just make the agenda two days prior so everybody can get it and it's no excuse on you guys because right now you guys are the boss and you guys are not doing your job. One is doing it, the other one is not. So who are we going to
if you're not doing your job? Remove yourself from there and put somebody there that's going to do it. It's that simple. Let's stop playing around. Half of a year is already gone. Half of a year is gone and we still wasting time on shenanigans.
If it's about tax, we could find a way to make this money. I'm not the smarter kid, but sir, give me an opportunity and I I will give you not the cannabis. I could find different other ways of making the money to for our town. So, please let's stop making this craziness
because we looking in front of the channels, news channels like we don't know, like we idiots. I'm a special ed and I look better. That's disrespectful to you guys. So, please stop wasting time. We got the ambulance. We got everything. Now we got
to concentrate how we going to bring these positions that we eliminated from the police back. Done. Let's find the funds to bring that back and let's move forward. The garage got to get done. Let's get it done the right way. I respect that you're doing your research for everything. So, let's stop wasting
time and let's negotiate, please, guys. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Hi. I'm going to be quick. I didn't plan on speaking. Forgive me. I'm a little nervous. Um, >> Republican, Democrat, whatever. >> Can we just have your name in? >> I'm sorry. My name is Ellen Margraph. Um, >> your address.
>> My I I live in Loka Harbor. I came up from Loka Harbor, Ocean County resident for 42 years. I want to ask everybody up here so respectfully and I honestly mean that. Please don't close the animal shelter. Um, >> no one no one's ever been closing the
shelter. Just so you know, >> let just give me one second. I just want to say that the way I'm proud to be an Ocean County resident and the way we treat animals and the way we treat people and animals who are innocent says a lot about who we are and I'm very proud to be from here and I'm incredibly
upset about what's happening. Um I don't want to see any youth in Asia personally. That's just how I feel. I I feel like there should be enough we pay enough in taxes and I don't want to see taxes go up either. I understand that. Believe me, I really do. Well, just just so you know, there's information being placed out on social media that says
we're closing the shelter. And this has been a a false uh narrative, false rumor that's been going on for months now since we got into office. Uh we've never closed the shelter. We never planned on closing the shelter. We are in talks and
have passed one ordinance on first reading where we would partner with with Ocean County and that they would run the shelter for us and they were going to we were all going to invest in a new dog walk and improving the facilities and partner together. But that does not mean we're closing the shelter. It means the
complete opposite. It means we'd be investing more uh and and working together. Uh Tom Zur is one of only four municipalities in the state of New Jersey that has its own shelter. Uh most townships out of the 564,
Mr. McGucken, I think four 564 municipalities. They all use the county systems except for four. We're one of them, which means the Toms are a taxpayer uh is fronting the bill for a shelter. Um, and we're underst staffed
and we don't have a lot of money and we're we have an issue with our budget and the county this year is going to cut county taxes. Am I correct, Mr. McGuck? >> They're cutting taxes because they have that much extra money and that money is
your money. That money is my money. and there's no reason why if they're a willing participant why we shouldn't partner with them for a better animal shelter. So, uh this rumor that you've read on social media at first was in Tom's River. Now I you're saying you're
coming up from Lenoka Harbor because a lot of the people who came at first from Tom's River and spoke and we answered there. You know there are some folks that are here obviously from Tom's River for that but we at one time had a room filled until we started talking about what the actual facts were regarding
what we were planning to do. No one wants to close the shelter. Um, what we want to do is improve the shelter and work with the county to do that and to take some of the burden off of Tomms River taxpayers while the county has so much excess. And if you'd like to
continue, Mike, could you please give her three minutes back? Ju >> just just two things really quickly. I understand you want to get together with the Ocean County uh shelter in Jackson. They do have a high youth in Asia rate. So, unfortunately, that's something I would like to see. >> I don't actually I No, I hear you. I
don't agree with that and I've showed that to the press. Uh I think the dog number is much at least when they reported to the state last in 2021. The dog euthanasia rate in Toms River was 12 1.5%. And at the county level it was a
half a percent. I know the county cat number is high but we all know that uh the county gets the feral cats from the entire county and um you know there are some folks who believe we should be doing trap and release. I guess that's something we could all talk about, but I
don't think it's uh relevant to this the changing of the shelter over and who runs it. Um we need we need more people. We need more expertise. We need more financing and we just don't have it. Um we want to see what's best for the animals. Uh I was the first person who
actually I received a lot of emails. Um I took this on uh because it was the right thing to do in early January. I even reached out the papers because I the shelter was full. Um, I took it on even though it's politically unpopular and I'm seeing it through even though
it's politically unpopular because I believe it's the right thing to do. I know there are some folks who disagree with me on that, but one thing that we should not misunderstand is the shelter is not being closed. There's never been a plan to close the shelter. Um, I know
it's an emotional thing because some folks who are are working at the shelter and I see them here, there quite a few of them here. They're concerned that they may not have a job and I understand that's a real issue and an emotional issue and but my I have to think of
everybody and and balance all that out. So, >> I just humbly ask you to think about the animals because I know we're talking about humans, but we have a voice and they don't have a voice. >> Oh, I love I love the animals. >> My hope is that we can do something, you know what I mean? Lower the use in Asia. Uh I understand money is an issue, but
the county has a low dog youth very low and the number skews out and uh particularly over the feral cats because again when you have an entire county that you're responsible for and you can't do anything with the wild cat. They don't have a mechanism. There's no
trap and release program. There's not >> I've trapped and released about 30 cats. So there is a definite there's a way to do it because I've done it. There is there is but there isn't anything going on in any of these county shelters as far it's something like that has to be handled more on a state level. Uh but again, you go out to a a count full
countywide shelter who responsible for 33 municipalities and the cat number gets but but like I said as far as uh their efforts, you turn on the radio, you hear about the Ocean County Shelter, you turn on the internet, you see dogs for adopted, they're sponsored ads all
the time. They do a great job and they have the money to do that and they could use more capacity. And since we've made sure that our shelter is opened and not locked when you go up to the door, we've had a hard time keeping animals. They come in and they go out real quick and we have a lot of extra capacity. So
>> make them shut up too much. >> Mike, I just want to say one last time to every person here, I very respectfully to all of you just ask you to please consider absolutely doing what's best for the animals. It really does say a lot about who we are and the way we treat them. That's the only thing I ask and I ask that respectfully of
every single one of you. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. [Applause] My name is Stacy Wyoff. I'm a Brick Township resident of 40 years. I've been involved in rescue for over 20 years.
I've recently read some very disturbing comments that you've said with regard to euthanizing animals and actually chuckled at it and I find that to be totally disturbing. Um, I work with the Jackson shelter. They're they have informed me that you've closed the Toms
River shelter to intakes which is causing dogs in Jackson to be euthanized and I don't understand how you're saying that it's lies that the shelter is being closed because I never closed the shelter and we are intaking animals and
we are having animals leave and I don't know how Tom's River would cause animals in Jackson to go, but I would just read the source that you're reading this from and and try to evaluate where it's coming from. And it just doesn't seem to
make sense that that animals are dying in Jackson because of Tom's River. We we have our doors open. Animals come in, animals go out. >> So, you're telling me that they're open to intakes? >> I believe so. Yes. Yes. >> Bring them in. >> Okay. I'm going to look into that. And
the other thing that I wanted to know is with regard to the $1 million donation that was to fund the shelter for two years, where is that? Okay. The f funding for two years, you're getting that from uh my my math when I said to you when I said to the folks in the paper about there was a $1 million
donation. We've spent some of that money because when we first got here uh someone had purchased two industrial a washer and a dryer. Uh they didn't fit. They spent like $60,000. So we spent some money to open up the door.
They were we spent some money to get that installed. although they had >> ladies and gentlemen, please if you want to speak, please be respectful and get in line and you certainly can. >> So So we spent we spent some money um because they had been outside for I think 6 months or a year or something
along those lines to to get them in. I think they had to take apart the wall, right? And get them in. And uh so some of that's been spent there, but the county has expressed that they would like to do a dog walk and all kinds of upgrades to the facility. And in our
ordinance that we passed, uh it it was the agreement was that we would spend the money from the donation to improve the facilities before they took them over because the county believes that they are subpar as far as the facilities
are concerned that they're not commensurate to being a good shelter. So they would like to improve the shelter and uh that's where that money would go according to the ordinance we passed on first reading. So, you're saying that out of the $1 million, you've only utilized 60,000 of it so far?
>> I'm not 100% sure. I think it was a little more than that because there was broken glass, right, Tom? And there was uh a fence and there's a lot of things that got repaired when we got here. There was a hole in the wall that a dog dug through the wall cuz he was in the cage for so long.
>> Okay. So, I just want to confirm that you are in fact open to intakes right now. Yes. >> And surreners. >> Yes. >> Okay. And the doors were never closed to intakes. >> The doors for the shelter. Excuse me. Yes. When the shelter when we got here in January and I knocked on the door, I think it was January 7th and
they told me, "Sorry, uh, we're we're only by appointment. They recognized me as the mayor and then invited me in. We were full. So, we couldn't have intakes. So, I ordered immediately that all incoming animals be moved to the county
until we got the dogs under control and until we felt like the facility was um up and running properly that open for regular business hours, right? Like if you want to adopt a dog, you got to make an appointment. That was ridiculous. So,
we we we've done a lot and um we'll continue to do a lot. Whether or not it's politically popular, we're going to do what's right for the animals. >> Okay. Okay. So, as of right now, the shelter is going to remain open. >> The shelter has always been remaining open. That's what I'm saying to you.
People are reading. People need to um recognize that just because someone writes something in a in a Facebook chat group does not make it true. For example, we had uh I don't even know, hundreds of emails about allegedly illegal immigrants uh being busted into
Tom's River because someone took a photograph of a bus at a hotel on Route 37. And I can't even tell you how many emails and phone calls and just because some guy who had a bus was sleeping at a hotel and somebody thought he' get a ton
of clicks, man, were they right. We got so many clicks that we wound up sticking something about that in our newspaper so that people knew what the truth was. So look, social media is powerful, very powerful, and it could be used for for good purposes and bad. And sometimes people are just having fun with other
people, but it has never ever been the plan to close the shelter. And I'm I'm kind of exhausted saying that. And I know it's not your so that >> I thank you very much for your time and I just truly hope that your words are true. Shelter is not going to post and I
hope that everyone chooses to adopt. >> Please post those >> rather than shop. >> Please post those comments. I have adopted most of my I bought one. >> Okay. >> Folks, I I hate to cut you off. It's really getting late. >> Well, I mean we've been here for quite a
while. >> Yeah, that's quite a while. Yes, sir. >> Just uh just one quick correction in regards to uh whether or not an agenda should be provided. >> New Jersey Open uh public meetings act,
otherwise known as the Sunshine Law. >> Okay, that's uh NJSA 104-6. Part of that says that uh part of your notice, your >> Sorry, not to cut you off, but this matter has been before the New Jersey Supreme Court. There was a appellet
division matter that uh ruled that a um public body did in fact violate the open public meetings act uh by not uh posting an agenda and the Supreme Court ruled that's not the case. They it only has to be posted in uh a circumstance of a
special council meeting. We did post an agenda in our meeting notice that was uh published in the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger on Monday. um within which was 72 hours of the meeting um and it was the agenda to the extent known at
that time >> and and every time there's an ordinance the ordinance has to be in how how long Peter >> the ordinance has to be published in one paper circulating in the municipality 7 days prior to the meeting and that that happened uh in this particular instance
>> so there's always notice the remainder of my sentence was that you're supposed to provide as complete of an agenda as possible. Now, if there's some confusion perhaps per perhaps there's an opportunity to explain that, but that might might be where people have an
expectation, you know, plus there was regular practices that were performed before that. I will say regarding regarding the shelter, the plan was never to close the shelter. I you know, um I had this debate with my wife. It was it was
always to have Ocean County come in and and you know the debate was would they do a better a better job or not. Now that is that that is something that obvious I've spoken about and we've spoken about I've shared my numbers and that I disagree with based on the facts
but but I I did I did want to just confirm with what what you were saying there um because I think when we're when we're debating issues we should be debating facts and the and you know not allowing that said if one shelter is over capacity and has the ability to
euthanize because of capacity as was the case with northern ocean county from what I understand. >> But wouldn't that change if you had multiple shel more shelters? So if you had three shelters, you would have >> in January, February or March, which is
why uh which is why about half of the animals that were sent there were euthanized. We were full, which is why we had a very very high >> Well, we haven't euthanasia rate here. We were very full. We're not we're not we'll yeah we'll just that there'll be time to discuss that.
>> So I I don't want to you know create the whole back and forth but I just wanted to go up and read that because that's where all the information will go. >> Hi Jody Cow again with Kind Heart Rescue again. No skin in the game. I do have a couple observations though because I work with shelters all over the state
like I said and have done so for 30 or 40 years. I do know one of the main problems comes from when boards of shelters and such are the ones that make the big decisions rather than listening more to the frontline staff. There's
another shelter in Ocean County that will remain nameless, that is going through hell right now. And they have a big problem with holding dogs that have severe bite histories. And for whatever reason, because the board, the upper level
don't see these dogs. These are dogs with bite histories that should be put to sleep. So, there's room for the adoptable dogs. That's one thing. The the front line has to get together with these boards. Another thing I want to segue to this horde in Tom's River that got me involved when there was 100 200
rabbits in a shed in Tom's River. The rabbit problem is becoming real. You're talking about feral cats. Feral rabbits are becoming a thing. I'm asked day after day after day to go to this county, to that county, to this town, to
that town to try to catch rabbits that are being dumped and become inferral. That's also something that every county, every town needs to look at. And again, they need to listen to front line and everybody come together and make the informed decisions.
>> We did have something like that just recently happen where we had a dog that had a bite history and we put it out and I think it it bit someone and that that's something that has to be uh watched very closely. >> Yeah. And that's it's a liability and it's a liability for the town as opposed
to a liability for an enormous county. >> And the problem is that many times when a dog has a bite history, it's really not the dog's fault. But nonetheless, the dog has a bite history and it becomes a liability to place it. There's no reason. And I've done rescue for my
whole life. My parents did it before me before there's even a word rescue. That's the reality of it that some animals have to be put to sleep. It's not always the answer to turn a feral cat back loose again. It's not always the right thing to have a dog with a
bite history not be put to sleep. You know, there's got to be a meeting of minds. >> You got to hope that people make good decisions, >> right? And not just in Tom's River, everywhere. >> I agree. >> It's everywhere. Thank you.
Bill Brilliant, 79 Holly Tree Lane. Just a correction because I thought the numbers sounded a little too big. So, the washer and dryer for the animal shelter, $19,000. I still think that's a lot of money for for a a washer and dryer, but it's it's 105 for a washing machine, heavy duty, everything like
that. 8,500 for the dryer. And the township did spend $3,725 to install it on January 16, 2024. When it was purchased in October, it was delivered. It was not installed,
but it was installed. >> When was it? When was it delivered? >> It was delivered on October 30th. >> Of what? Of what year? >> 2023. 2023. >> 2023. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And actually, they and they got paid in six days, which is amazing. So, but just want to put that on the record. Thank
you. >> My name is Crystal. I live at 536 Skyllock Drive. Um >> what's your last name, ma'am? >> Hendrickx. >> Thank you. >> I just want to address um a lie that was said. So um the mayor claimed that a dog ate through the wall. Am I allowed to come up and show you guys a picture?
>> This is the wall that the dog ate through. He ate through the first layer of it. Um, there was not a hole in the wall. It was usable for like a small dog or a non-aggressive dog. >> Some dog was very stressed though to do that. >> Probably in there for a long
>> I'll get there time. >> No one asked you to speak. >> Um, the dog that was staying in this kennel came in as a stray. He was very stressed. He was a pit bull, an unneutered male pit bull. That same day, we got in a female husky that was in
heat. So, as you may know, nature makes whatever. There was also storms that went on that night. Um, so yeah, the dog was stressed, um, as are most dogs in this environment, and we cater to them and to that. We give them a lot of time to decompress and we work really hard to
make sure that they feel comfortable and get comfortable so we can determine accurately if they are adoptable or not. Um, and that's just all I wanted to say because it made me angry. >> Okay. >> You like a motion to close the public
portions meeting. Carlos, I think we we've had enough for today. Okay, my friend. Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Can I have a motion to to Okay, we have the motion by Councilman Oul. >> Do we have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? I
>> motion to adjourn the meeting. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I thank you folks. [Music]