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[Music] Good evening everyone. Like to call this meeting to order. At this time like everybody to stand and do the flag salute. Thank you. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. At this time I'd like to call for a moment of silence for the individuals who lost their life recently in that horrible boat and bridge mishap down in
Baltimore. So if we have a moment of silence, I'd appreciate that. Thank you, Council President. So, a a moment of silence for the young police officer in New York City that was shot a day or two ago and killed
I think I believe he was 31 years old. So, if we could have a moment of silence for him also, please. Okay. Did everyone hear that? No. Would just Dave, would you repeat that yourself, please? Okay. I would like to also to have a moment of silence for the police officer
that was shot and killed a day or two ago in uh New York City, please. Thank you. Okay, council president. Thank you, Dave. This meeting is convened in accordance with the provisions of the Open Public
Meetings Act of New Jersey. Let the official minutes reflect that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by publishing a notice in the Asbury Park Press on Thursday, January 4th, 2024. the Press of Atlantic City in the Star Ledger and also forwarded to the
Toms River Times, Tom's River patch and WOBM news on Tuesday, January 2nd, 2024, and thereafter posting same on the town hall bulletin board for such notices and filing same with the township clerk pursuant to a resolution adopted by the
township council on Tuesday, January 1st, 2024. The meeting dates have also been posted on the township web page. Councilman Scozosi here. Councilman Lamb here. Councilman Loman here. Councilman Nison here. Councilman Quinn
here. Council Vice President Otul here. Council President Coleman here. Item five are the minutes from the special meeting on March 13th, 2024. Move the minutes. Second. A motion is made by Councilman Lamb and seconded by Councilman Nverson.
Councilman Lamb. Yes. Councilman Nonson. Yes. Councilman Sakosi. No. Councilman Loen. Yes. Councilman Quinnisk. Yes. Council Vice President Otul. Yes. Council President Coleman. Yes. Item six is honoring resolutions and
presentations. Tonight we have National Library Week. I'd like the council to join me down in the well to make this presentation. Would you please take a motion to to move the honoring resolutions and presentations? Oh, I'm sorry. I'll make that motion. Second. All in favor? I I. And also I'd like to ask TA Patino to
come forward. Hi TA. Hi. How are you? Good. [Music] I'm sure we all remember our experiences with the libraries and women school. I have to say it was one of the better experiences we had. They were most helpful and
a lot. I should learn my lesson right there, Mike. Mic for Mike. Very good. Thank you. Uh, we have this township with Tom proclamation. If I stumble a little bit, it's the first time I've seen it, so bear with me. Whereas the week of April 7th through
13, 2024 has been proclaimed as National Library Week in Ocean County. And whereas librarians libraries adapt to the everchanging needs of their communities, developing and expanding collections, programs, services that are
diverse as the population they serve. And whereas libraries are accessible and inclusive places that promote a sense of local uh connection, advancing understanding, civic engagement, and shared community goals.
Whereas librarians off the opportunity for everyone to connect with others, learn new skills, and pursue their passions no matter where they are on life's journey. And whereas librarians have long served and trusted institutions striving to ensure
equitable access to information and services for all members of the community regardless of race, ethnicity, creed, ability, sexual collections, programs. Wait, I skipped my sorry, sexual orientation,
gender identity, or socioeconomic status. And whereas librarians adapt to the everchanging needs of their communities, developing and expanding collections, programs, and services that are as diverse as the population they serve. And whereas librarians are
accessible and inclusive places that promote a sense of local connection, advancing understanding, civic engagement, and shared community goals. And I promise I'll finish. Whereas librarians play a a sorry the lighting
is not too good here a pivotal role in economic development by providing resources and support for job seekers, entrepreneurs and small businesses, thus contributing to local pro prosperity and
growth. And whereas libraries make choices that are good for the environment and make sense economically, creating thriving community for a better tomorrow. And whereas libraries are untreasured institutions that preserve our collective heritage and knowledge,
safeguarding both physical and digital resources for present and future generations. And libraries are essential public good and fundamental institution in democratic societies. working to improve society, protect the
right to education and literacy, and promote the free exchange of information and ideas for all. And whereas libraries, librarians, and library workers are joining library supporters and advocates across the nation to
celebrate National Library Week. And now, therefore, thank you. Be it resolved that I, Mayor Daniel Rodrik, and the township council proclaim April 7th through 13, 2024 as National Library Week. During this week, I encourage all
residents to visit the library and celebrate the adventures and opportunities they unlock for us every day. Ready, Set, Library. [Applause]
Yeah, wait till next year. We're gonna So, of course, as you know, librarians are very wordy, hence this very long proclamation. But thank you so much. My name is TA Patino and I'm the branch manager at the Tom's River branch of the Ocean County Library. And I just thank
you for giving us the time tonight to receive this proclamation. We are so committed to the community and giving back. And if you have not visited us, I hope that you please do. We are now fine free. So if that's holding you back, don't let it. Come on over.
Please join us. We have programs, we have books, we have music. Anything you can think of, we have for you there at the library. We're here for you. Thank you very much. [Applause]
two. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause] [Music] [Music] Get you doing it. I could.
Unfortunately, I just got the message that Senator Joe Lren passed away today. So, if we could do just one more moment of silence, I think that'll be appropriate. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Up next, we have the certification of township clerk pursuant
NJSA4069A-187. Council President, if I may have the floor. Yes, you may. I am the municipal clerk of the township of Toms River and as such have the responsibility for the examination and certification of petitions submitted
pursuant to NJSA 4069A-185. On March 4th, 2024, a petition consisting of over 530 pages was filed with my office by a committee of petitioners. The petition contained the following language. Petition protesting against ordinance to
reduce police roster. We the undersigned registered voters of the township of Tom's River, Ocean County, New Jersey, hereby request a referendum election and submission to popular vote for the police roster reduction ordinance designated as an ordinance of the township council, Township of Tom's
River, Ocean County, New Jersey, amending and supplementing sections 50-38, 50-3G, and 50-3R of the Township Code to revise the roster of petitions within the Department of Law Enforcement bearing number 2024-05. 5. Under the powers of
referendum granted an NJSA4069A-185, the undersigned voters demand that the police roster reduction ordinance in its entirety with any changes whether by amendment or resolution by the township council be submitted to the electorate for a vote at the general or special election with a question to be put on to
be put to the Toms River Township in the form of a referendum. NJSA469A-185 states, "If the petition shall be signed by a number of the legal voters of the municipality equal in number to at least 15% of the total votes cast in the municipality at the last election at
which members of the general assembly were elected, the ordinance shall be suspended from taking effect until proceedings are had as here and provided. In the general election of November 2023, 20,53 voters of Toms River Township voted according to the
data obtained from the Ocean County Board of Elections and 15% of 20,523 is 379. After my review of the petition, I hereby certify that each p each paper of the petition has a proper statement of the circulators. I further certify
pursuant to NJSA469A-185 more than 3,79 registered voters which is equal to 15% of the 20,523 voters of the township of Toms River who voted at the last preceding general election have signed the petition in question and that pursuant to the pro provisions of the statute Toms River
Township Council must within 20 days take action to repeal this ordinance or will be submitted to appear on a ballot as a question for the voters at a future special election. Thank you, House President. Moving to item seven. Item seven is an ordinance of the township council, township of Toms River, Ocean County,
New Jersey, repealing ordinance number 4792-24 of the township code of the township of Tom's Riverver titled amending and supplementing sections 53B, 53G, and 53R of the Township Code to revise the roster of petitions within the Department of Law Enforcement. This is a
first reading. At this point in time, the mayor has asked for an opportunity to speak. Mayor, thank you, Council President. I want to thank the council for showing their support for my initiative to properly staff and fund a muchneeded increase in our EMS program. Although we didn't need
it, the council went forward under great pressure to pass an ordinance to demonstrate their support of the administration's plan. The fact is I never needed the ordinance. It is the administration's right to determine the staffing levels of the police department and that is what we will do. Residents
cannot wait 30 minutes for an ambulance. We do not need two more $350,000 a year management positions at the PD. We need more boots on the ground. We need more EMTs at the PD. I have been advised that we could easily defeat this petition in
court. We could absolutely prove that these petitions were not in the hands of those who swore they did on an affidavit. We all know these petitions were left at multiple restaurants and businesses and those who swore they witnessed these
signatures in many cases did not. We could also prove that many of the signatures on that petition were not signed by those individuals whose names were on them. That being said, that being said, I am
not going to spend taxpayer dollars on lawyers to fight in court for an ordinance I do not need. That money would be better spent hiring more EMTs, and we have a budget to balance. I will
not raise taxes. The township had a $3.5 million budgetary shortfall. does not and putting another ambulance on the road 24 hours a day is going to just one second please. Any more else burst and that person's going to be removed from this room. Okay. Please be
respectful. You'll get your turn. No. Thank you. The township, excuse me. The township had a $3.5 million budgetary shortfall and putting another ambulance on the road 24 hours a day is going to cost us another million dollars. That's $4.5 million shortfall. We've made a lot
of progress closing that gap. By not backfilling the retirement of these two management positions and by eliminating the chief's PR person, we now have the money to properly staff EMS at the police department. With or without this ordinance, the captains are not coming
back and we're putting more EMTs on the road. I'm proud to announce we reached a tentative agreement with the EMS union. The township will be raising the starting salary for EMTs to $30 an hour for full-timers and $35 an hour for
part- timerrs without benefits. At $62,000 a year, Tomms will be the highest starting salary for full-time EMTs in the state. This will help the township attract the best EMTs. We are a family town with a massive senior
population. We need to do better for our families and our seniors. We need more boots on the ground. No one should ever wait 30 minutes for an ambulance under any circumstance. To avoid the cost of a special election
or litigation, I've advised the council to repeal the ordinance. But to be clear, this doesn't change anything. We are going to do what's best for residents and we won't be pushed around by unions. I have nothing further. Do you really?
Okay. At this time, I'd like to call for a vote. Do I have a motion to approve the ordinance? Second. We have a motion and we have a second. A motion was made by Council Vice President Otul and seconded by Councilman Nvice. Coun Council Vice
President Oul. Yes. I want to make a little statement before I make my vote. I still support the mayor's plan not to backfill these two management positions at the police department.
Their salaries are outrageous, costing the township close to $400,000 for each man. Meanwhile, our seniors are waiting up to 30 minutes or more for an ambulance. It's unbelievable and bloody outrageous that people are fighting this absolutely
sensible plan to properly fund EMS. This problem has been going on for the last four years, but only our mayor, Dan Rodri, has had the courage and fortitude to take on the fight to fix it. I also feel this petition. I listen to you now.
You listen to me. Very funny. We can sit here all night. Councilwoman, please continue. Oh, I know why. I also feel this petition was presented to the people of Thomas River under false pretenses. It was presented as we were defunding
the police, which was totally untrue. Not bumping up everyone up the chain to fill two retiring captain seats is not defunding. So, for my money, this whole debacle should never have occurred. I'm only voting to repeal this ordinance because I know it's not needed and I
also know the mayor will not back down. He will do what's right for the people and hire more EMTs. Thank you, Councilman Iverson. I vote yes to repeal it. I fully support the police department. This is about
fiscal responsibility. We need more first daters and shorter response times. Councilman Sakosi. First, I want to thank everyone here that was involved with this petition. God bless
you all. We all did the right thing. Uh they heard us and more petitions can come down the road and I I just salute everybody in here. Thank you. You had the courage to stand up and and and you
were heard. Thank you so much. Thank you, Councilman Sakosi, for for the record, your vote. Yes. Councilman Lamb. Well, first I want to thank the police officers who came out tonight because if anybody that works shift work knows it's
not easy coming out at certain times during the week and I I appreciate you being here. While I'm advised we could successfully challenge the petition papers due to glaring irregularities, this governing body does not want to spend tax dollars on a legal fight that we don't have to take on. With or
without this ordinance, the table of organization of every township department, including public safety, rest solely with the mayor and the administration. Let me be clear, this governing body is not defunding public safety. Our sole purpose is to increase funding by putting more boots on the
ground now by holding off on back filling retirements in upper level management. This is a common practice of fiscally responsible towns throughout the state of New Jersey. The mischaracterization of our plan, the shifting posture by the unions was expected. However, this governing body
again knew the decision solely fell upon the mayor. This ordinance was merely an inkind show of solidarity, as is tonight's vote by all of us. For the last two years, the majority of W1 taxpayers that I represent have demanded and not received EMS coverage.
This governing body is now delivering on that promise to hire a complement of EMT trained community service officers. And for all those reasons, I vote yes. Thank you, Councilman Lman. I'm going to vote yes only because I feel that it's the mayor's decision and he's going to make that decision and
there's no reason for us to spend all of this time in court fighting about this. So my my discussion with the mayor says that if he has the right to do this, he's going to have the right to do it. Um, and I vote yes for Councilman Quinnless.
Wow. Um, I'm going to do a quick uh quote from somebody that says, "If you tell a big enough lie and repeat it, people will eventually become to believe it true. [Applause]
There's a lot more to it. Please look it up. You could just look up uh uh to tell a big lie. Um I haven't heard that much propaganda in the two years that I've been sitting up here so far combined. If if he was right that these these
petitions were uh not valid, then let's pursue it that way. But I'm pretty sure that the clerk did a very diligent job and spent a lot of time uh validating all those signatures and they were probably somewhat validated before they even got to him. So if you're going to tell us that he was wrong and the guy that sent you all those signature was
wrong, well, come on. Uh the people this the people of this town fought hard for this. They're sending you a message and it's similar to what I said a couple of weeks ago that your ship is sinking. So I vote yes for this ordinance and I thank everybody that had something to get do with getting me pregnant.
Council President Coleman. You know, even after learning the administration didn't need this ordinance, the council passed it on a second reading to demonstrate our support of the administration's plan to properly fund EMS. No one should wait half an hour.
Nobody does. I didn't interrupt you. Sorry. With a loved one waiting for an ambulance. And I know that personally it's a horrifying idea. I know the police department has said that the
three-year average is 7 to nine minutes, but your loved one could die in a lot less time than that. We have all read and read and heard horror stories of wait times up to 30 minutes. We cannot allow this to happen anymore. At the end
of the day, these two retirings will save over $700,000. That's enough money to add eight EMTs to the police department staff. No one is defunding the police. All the money goes right back into the department's budget.
I only agreed to repeal this ordinance because the mayor doesn't need it. We cannot afford to spend tax dollars on costly litigation. And I vote yes. Moving to item eight. Item eight is an ordinance of the township of Tom Zur
County of Ocean State of New Jersey. authorizing the mayor to execute and the township clerk to attest to a lease agreement between the township of Tom's River and the county and the Ocean County Board of Health authorizing the leasing of certain municipal property pursuant to NJSA4A
12-14B. This is a first reading. I have a motion to approve. Council President, yes. I just have a question on the word um and it's not clear to me. It says the
leasing of a certain municipal property. Which property is that? Can we put it in layman terms? You you could ask uh Mr. McGucken. He he wrote the lease agreement. It's the animal shelter property. Why does it say
it's I'm sorry the animal shelter property. So, it's the annual and and I misunderstood the the lease agreement agreement is already written. There's a draft that has not been finalized and it's attached to the ordinance.
Okay. All right. So, why can't we read into this first reading the animal shelter? Why can't we put that in there? I don't believe it's appropriate for the title. I don't believe it's appropriate for the title. You don't believe it's appropriate?
That's correct. It's not. This is an ordinance to lease property. That's what it authorizes. The lease itself identifies the property as does the ordinance. Attorney, I I beg to differ, but um All right. So, now everybody knows what it is. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Take a motion to move the ordinance. I'll make the motion. Second. A motion was made by Councilman Lobin and seconded by Councilman Lamb. Councilman Lman. Yes. Councilman Lamb. Yes. Councilman Sakoszi. No. Councilman Nuson.
No. Councilman Quinnisk. No. Council Vice President Otul. Yes. Council President Coleman. Yes. To item nine. Item nine is ordinance to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and to establish a
cap bank. Pardon me. What was the talent for? Yes or no? Four to three. Yes to no. Okay. Thank you. Item nine is an ordinance to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and to establish a CAT bank pursuant
NJSA4A 4-45.14. This is a final reading. I have a motion to approve. Uh this is a final reading. There would be a public comment portion. Oh,
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Uh any public comment concerning this ordinance? the cap. The cap, right? Take a motion to motion to post public comment. Second. All in favor? I I I.
Are there any opposed? Take a motion to move the ordinance. I'll make that motion. I'll second. A motion by Councilman Lamb and seconded by Councilman Loman. Councilman Lamb. Yes. Councilman Loman, yes. Councilman Sakosi, yes. Councilman Nson, yes.
Councilman Quinn, yes. Council Vice President Otul, yes. Council President Coleman, yes. Moving to the consent agenda. All matters listed under item consent agenda will be enacted by one motion in the form listed below. There will be no separate discussion of these items. If
discussion is desired on any item, that item will be considered separately. Can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? I'll make a motion. Can I get a roll call in discussion on B and H? B and H. Okay. Anyone
else? Say again. Sorry. B. We have that already. We have that already. Okay. So, so far we have B, H, and I. Yes, sir. I say again.
C. See, we already said I. Okay. C. Anyone else? One last thing. Council president. J. J.
Okay. So to this point we have B, C, H, I, and J. Yeah, I will. Can I have a motion to approve the remainder of the consent agenda? I'll make a motion.
Second. Sorry. Who made the first motion? Uh, Tom. A motion was made by Councilman Nivonson and seconded by Councilman Lamb. Councilman Iverson, yes. Councilman Lamb, yes. Councilman Sakosi, yes. Councilman Loman, yes.
Councilman Quinless, yes. Council Vice President Oul, yes. Council President Coleman, yes. Okay, then. Uh, resolution B. Is that you, Jim? Yes, sir. Okay, go ahead. Thank you. Um, I'm curious as to why
we're willing to spend $314,000 to put sand back up on the beach when we're not willing to spend $500,000 to put structural paint back up on our parking garage that is clearly deteriorating. Oh, council president, may I address that? Yes, you may. Okay. So um the if you read the
structural what you call structural which is not if you read the report you would see that it was paint and that the report stated that uh if if the repairs weren't made to where you see the back the uh cement uh whatever that stucco
coming off if they weren't repaired that it could in the future lead to problems. So we sent a structural engineer out just in case that person made a mistake. We're waiting on that report to come back and if whether it's structural or not structural that will be repaired uh
at a lot less than a half a million dollars. As for your comments on the beach, um actually the bids for the replenishment came back at half of what you voted for last year, uh which was about $600,000. So perhaps they know
there's a new sheriff in town. Uh so they're going to replenish the beach for 300 for $314,000 this year, Jim, instead of the 600 that you voted for uh last year. Um so I I think the beach generates a tremendous
amount of economic activity and more than pays for itself um via that economic activity and just our beach bash sales are in the millions. So I think we need to have a beach, Jim. Um, so I would just ask the council to please support that.
Jim, I'm not arguing necessarily replenishing the beach. I'm arguing how we're going to justify spending this when that garage clearly has some issues. In fact, there's a park bench blocking a railing that's falling down. That's not Listen, Jim. I I think I just explained to you, excuse me, Mr. Mayor, there's plenty of things in that building that are clear
to see that were pointed out in the last bid package that went out that were already voted on and already approved to go through. Except for Except for you don't want to award it because you're hoping to save money on it. No, no, no, Jim. I'm going to save money. Uh, a lot of money. In fact, we'll save more than what we need for
the beach. And if that gets swept away, we'd be able to pay for the beach again because you want uh because I'm not doing what you would like to see, which is pay $500,000 to paint a garage. Not It's not just paint. It's clearly not paint. Did you read the bid? Yeah, I read the report and I just told
you what it was. The people in the press read the report. It's not structural. There's stucco and paint. And okay, I ordered a new engineering report in case you were right that it's structural cuz you know, you you do strike me as an
engineer, right? I mean, um, we're going to have them come and look no more than you are. And it's going to be repaired. And we're not going to spend a half a million dollars to paint the parking lot. You're going to have to deal with the way the parking lot looks. Now, I think the beige is okay. I don't think anybody's worried about the aesthetics. I think you are because
I just told you that the report you're referencing is about aesthetics. So I I Jim, we really need sand up there. I mean, I've really maybe then you could see that it's not just paint. I parked there, Jim. Yeah, it's you got that first spot right here.
The report you referenced talks about repairing the stucco uh so that it doesn't become a structural issue. I think you're wrong. You think you're wrong about the report? Did you read the report or you just Gentlemen? I think we've discussed it enough. I think there are two different
opinions. Um Jim, as far as I know, the engineering team is taking a look at it and they will determine whether there's a structural already took a look at it. Already put it out to bid. Well, we're going to take another look at it. Okay. All right. And it was only one bid that came in,
Jim. And it was only advertised for a day. And you're up here lobbying for $500,000 for a paint job. Do you know the contractor? Not the gentlemen, let's move on. Let's move on. All right.
Can we have a vote on resolution B? Please motion, please. I have to abstain from this. Motion was made. Do we have a second? I'll second. A motion by Councilman Lamb and seconded
by Councilman Nusson. Councilman Lamb, we need sand up there. I see a lot of people from beach there in the crowd. Um I think I agree with the mayor recently. We discussed that in the past we had the sand delivered prior to Memorial Day weekend and we had issues up there with
norers that were coming early June. Um so I I think that these repairs have to be done. They got to be done soon and for those reasons I vote yes. Councilman Iverson. Yes. Councilman Sakosi. Yes. Of course. Councilman Loman. I have to abstain.
Councilman Quinn, I'll abstain. Council Vice President Oul, yes. Council President Coleman, yes. Okay, moving on to resolution C. I'm not sure who brought that up. Was it you, sir? Would you please come forward and
come to the microphone? We just did B. Hold on. We We didn't get to Jay. I think Dave called. Well, I I think it was a procedural error. Everybody should allow the public to comment on B first. I'm sorry. I apologize.
Can we can we resend the vote, Mr. McGucken, and then give the public comment or do we have to or not have to? Or you don't have to resend it yet. You can have the public comment and then if the council wants to rescend it if they want to resend it. So, council president, can you take for Yes. Um, sir, you have some comments.
Uh, we're back on B again. Okay, you're on B. Come right forward, please. Now, just before you start, let me just go through one piece of information here. We still are getting complaints from people in the back end watching the
show that they're not able to to hear the speakers. So, please do me a favor. If you can come right up to the microphone and speak, that'd be great. If you are a little funny about coming up to the microphone, stand, pick up the microphone and hold it in your hand and
speak directly into the microphone, okay? So that everybody can hear what's being said. Thank you very much. Deborah Martin, 1921 Ocean Avenue, Ortly Beach. Um, first of all, I don't remember I was going to ask how much was spent last year. I do not remember it
being 600. Well, it's worse damage this year. So, how is 300 gonna cover 314? First of all, well, they they put the tonnage and they went up and they did an estimate and they bid it based on the tonnage that
they would need. Maybe sand prices are lower. I don't know. Two years in a row they ran out before they got to Fifth Avenue. I know Justin seen it. I don't know if you saw it. Well, if they do two years in a row they ran out. We had horrible, horrible two years of getting on and off the beach.
Well, you know, you have my personal cell phone, Miss Martin. And if that happens, you just call me and I'll make sure they go out and fix it. Probably shouldn't have to. It should have been done right to begin with last year. Okay. Well, two years in a row, Fifth Avenue was not done correctly.
Um I'm looking at the reports and I see about $250,000 more from this year. No, 100,000 more than last year. So there's already extra money coming in on building and wreck. building alone
200 and some thousand more than last year. That means more I guess people are building houses which means there's going to be more people which are also is Earl promising to come in right after Memorial Day because there's already
like half of the entrances are not able to be used right now. One step may I jump in just one just as far as the building permits I believe Mr. McGuck would have to his memory might be better than mine. I believe the price of the building permits went up
last year. Correct. Think so. Yeah. So I I think that that's what you're seeing there. And increasing building permits when people can't sell their houses, right? Real estate market is slow. People start doing their kitchens and they they do vinyl siding.
And so that's I think what you see there as far as um the other component of your question was hardly any of the entrances are able to be used. Right. Right. I want this done by Memorial Day weekend, but I don't want to do it too soon because as you remember uh last
year, I think they literally threw a half a million dollars and that's where I'm getting the half a million dollar number uh out. They put it down. It came out beautifully, but it was swept away in a noraster. So, uh we just had another noraster last week. I just I want to wait until we get closer. And
there will they said they could start within seven days of me letting them know. So, well, that's what I was going to say because unless they start right away, it's going to be like July 4th before they're finished. They they said that it would take them a week in their response.
Yeah. Because they rush it and it doesn't get done right again. Okay. Well, I've never I've never I've never been in this seat, but I can promise you I'm going to make sure that they do a good job. And if they don't get do a good job, I'll keep their feet to the fire. I know Councilman Lamb will do that as well. He and I were both boxed
out in previous years, but that's not going to happen this time. Councilman Lamb, you wanted to say something just real quick, Debbie, you know, it's always a band-aid every year, and you know, it's never enough. And really the really our uh uh eye goes goes towards the uh Army Corps of Engineers. They need to come in. They need to really do
it right. You know, they didn't do it right the first time and they got to come in especially right where that surf club property is. And we've had discussions with new engineering firm and we're trying to get that going and do it right. No, last um last year I mentioned to Mr. Amarosa and Mr. John Callian and they didn't feel it was
necessary to supervise, you know. Well, I I also our tax money going into this and they don't have the right to supervise. Yeah, they do have the right to supervise. I I've also begun discussions and I've said this through the newspapers with the governor's office regarding uh some
sort of pilot. It would be nice to try a nearshore reef or some groins. uh try something other than just pumping sand on the beach. They've had a lot of success uh down south and in other countries, you put a a reef about 300 to
500 uh yards offshore and it breaks the waves and it's the wave action during those uh big storms that erode the beach uh and beach grows back where they've been doing this. So, it's an interesting idea and Ortly is so small uh that that
uh it might be an interesting place to pilot it. I feel bad that we have to keep pumping money in, but we get it right town, a lot of income. We get it right back. A lot of tax money and we get it right back in economic activity.
To uh Mr. Murdoch from channel 12 and he was a little surprised at comments that were made in the January meeting. Mike, I lost track. Where are we with resolution B? Um, a vote was taken for resolution B. Unless anybody else has any comments, we'll move to
item C. Okay, looks like we have another gentleman who wants to speak about item B. up to Messenger Street, Tom's River. Uh, first before I even say anything, I empathize with the people from work. I've been down here since 1948.
Orley Beach. Some of the people here probably don't even know Orley Beach was an inlet. In 1794, it was open for shipping. Orley is still an inlet. As a kid, I remember seeing Ortly getting washed away the March storm of 62. If I sit in my lifeguard tower in
Lavallet, and Justin will verify this. If you look to the south, you can see where that coast goes in. You can put whatever you want there. And every year, this town has put hundreds of thousands of dollars into replenishing Ordney Beach. It's not going to work.
Something else has to be done. Maybe, you know, I look up at Bayhead. They had got flooded all the time. What did they do? Anybody know? They got those big boulders in there. Those boulders stay all the time. Then they cover them with sand.
We if we keep putting sand there, we're just going to keep wasting money. Every year we're going to be keeping keep having the same discussion every year. Where's the beach in? It was an inlet. After Sandy by the S-curve there, by the acne, there's a Volkswagen down in a
sinkhole. I get out of the car and look down the sinkhole and the water's still running underground. It's never going to change. So, I don't know what you can do. I feel so sorry for these people from Mortley. They come to the beach and they don't have a beach.
But my true feeling is no matter what you do, it's always going to be that way. You're never going to change mother nature. Council President, may I just jump in with one one more comment? Go ahead, ma'am. The only thing I would like to say when people say that, hey,
we shouldn't spend money replenishing. It was an inlet and it's going to become an inlet. I think you forget about when the inlet did open up in u Manaloken. And with an inlet in our area, uh we wouldn't see higher price homes. What we
would see is a 6-foot title change, which our area is not um developed to handle. So if all of a sudden we allowed an inlet to open up, that's what you would have. You would have a six-foot title change and most of our houses would be underwater. Uh so we have to do
what we can, particularly when the Army Corps of Engineers does not come through. It's our responsibility to protect our beach because in protecting our beach, we're protecting our entire township. Um that's all.
Anyone else? I'm sorry. Yes. come forward. Name is Joe MK former talking into the microphone. Mayor, I just want to know where that six foot title change came from because
I've lived on Alder Drive my whole life. The street's been flooded for numerous numerous storms. They just did a reconstruction and guess what? The flooding's back. I just want to know where and I'm giving you permission to speak. Where did that six-foot title serve? I lived on the board today my whole life. I've never heard it. I just
want to know where that came. If you were in Manisquan, you would understand what I'm talking about. So the poor Sandy, were you here during? Yes, I was here during a resident of Pal River during Yes, I lived in Silverton. You lived in Silverton. Were you underwater in Silverton? I was not on the water in Silverton, but So I was my family was
I I know I know your dad. That was the worst storm ever to hit this coast in my lifetime. Right. And we've dealt with a lot of storms. I've never heard a six-foot title serve. Never. Never. During s during Sandy, you waited. Mr. Winnick, if you would
like me to comment, I'll comment. If not, I can just shut the mic. It's okay. So, during Sandy, you waited around in water up to your chest. So, uh, once the tide made its way in, that's how deep the water was. And that was the result of partly to do with the opening. the
opening as the tide dropped, the opening partially closed, right? And would only allow water in when the tide reached a certain level. Call a title surge when a storm makes land. Right. Right. There's the surge. But if you were to go to Manisquan or if you were to go up to Belmar, all of
those towns experience a six-foot title change because of the inlet. If you had an inlet in the northern bay, you would experience a 6ft title change. This is just a mathematical certainty, sir. Where is that study? That's alone. It's not a study. It's all up the entire east coast if you of engineers should have a study.
Okay. If you have an inlet here, you would have a much higher title change. You sure of that? 100% sure. I want to know where that came from. All I'm asking because the only reason why I'm asking when a storm approaches a coast, makes landfall, that's called the title circle, right? The core of the eye of the hurricane or
eye of low pressure. Once you've the once the low pressure goes north and west of the coast, we have a backbay blowout, which most people don't know what a backbay blowout, but if you lived on a part of your bay, you would know that the tide actually empties out. Right. Sir, please talk into the microphone. So that would be a backbay blowout. When a storm goes north and west of the
coast, the northwest winds blow the back north bay waters offshore with there no longer a six-foot title. Okay. So, we right now live very far north approximately 12 to 15 miles or so from the inlet. Correct. So, it takes a very
it takes a very long time and you could if you if you want my explanation I'm the mayor. I'm not really a I actually I'm undergraduate in this but in but if you don't want me to explain it I won't but if you want me to explain it I'll explain it. So, in every in every I just want specifically you're saying
an inlet. Just tell me which inlet, Barnagate or Madas one. That's all I want. The title change in Barnagate is 6 foot as well. You know, there's a difference between the Barnett inlet to the Masquan inlet. When you live in portions of the Bay, whenever you're near an inlet within a certain proximity about a mile or so,
you experience about a six foot on the east coast. That's the entire east coast. I'm good. I'm good. Thanks. Thank you. That was an exercise. Anyone else? We can put this in. Okay. Uh any wish body to wish to change
their vote? Everybody's going to make a point. If not, move to item C. Yep. Resolution C. Who was the one that brought C up? Dennis Galanthony. Sir,
can you raise that mic up a little bit? I think that might be helpful if you can do that. That's good. Perfect. Really? Um resolution C. Is this is this the full text of this resolution? Is there more to it than just this? I asked a similar
question a couple meetings ago about I guess budget transfers, I think it was. And is this an enabling ordinance or are there more specifics um to this resolution? You know how they did the Easter we were supposed to have the Easter egg hunt and we're going to have all of these uh blow
up bouncing things. It wound up it wound up very wound up very nice with the storm you had the wreck did a great job and they gave well anyway uh because there wasn't enough money in wreck and there was extra money in other departments for that purpose uh the
money was moved from one uh account in the budget to another to cover what is it 67 $7,000 or so for this act all these activities uh for the um so this is from surplus have to paint.
It it was it was never spent, right? Okay. But it it it it increased it basically increased the amount of money that could be spent out of wreck and reduced the amount of money in an area where it came from, but no money was actually spent because it uh it rained and poured. But
but the action still took place as far as the movement of the size of the budgets and so on and so forth. So that's why it's still on here. Okay. So, so there's more to and can that be seen by the public prior to this meeting in its entirety? I remember when
Mr. McCucken was council president and I asked Mark Mutter, I took every item off the resol off the consent agenda and asked for it to be read in its entirety. See, I wouldn't be up here asking questions like this if I had all this information.
Right. Well, everything that goes on here uh has been going on like this. We're here for three months. So the procedures and I I do remember there was once a upon a time maybe seven or eight years ago where they did have physical papers of the resolutions. We could go back to doing that again. But whatever's
going on right now, we've been here uh for for 3 months. It's been going on for four years and 3 months and uh I'm certainly open to making things more accessible. It's a good idea. It's just information like the leasing of the animals. I think the way the the way the clerk set this up now, I think
you're able to click on this, right? But you need an account, Mike. You don't need an account. No, but I can certainly do that if that's the procedure we want to have. Okay. Thank you. All about the information, right? Transparency. Absolutely. Council President, if that's the case, I
would like to make a motion right now and that do this and that these these agenda items be put up there in a little more timely fashion instead of two hours. is always like it's not always like that. I got the agenda about 354 minutes. It was always there was additions always like that for the past two years when
you guys were in a majority. It was always like that. It was not always like that. We had agenda meetings a week before and yes and met who was invited Jim and yes you all the all the professionals even you Dan this is this is not working. We do this every meeting. There's excuse me gentlemen stop lying
and it be gentlemen that's enough every meeting that's enough. You had 20% of the vote in the primary team and they're going to have 20% next time. Listen, this is I made a motion. I need a second. If there's a second Okay.
What What is the motion, Dave? To make these There is no motion on the floor. To set agenda available to the public to make what? In a timely manner. Just what this gentleman more specificity I believe for legal. Can we have an opinion on it? It's going
to have he said these and he said consent. I don't know what that means. So, well, the full text of every resolution that's posted on the agenda. There you go. That sounds a lot better than what I heard. That would be your motion. The question is is whether or not case law permits any of this right now at
this time. The council can going forward, if they choose, adopt a motion directing the clerk to provide card copies of any resolution at the time of the meeting or them politics nonsense. advance copies. Not hard copies in advance,
but that might be too late because you don't know the entirety of the resolution. If it's only available here, then someone may not show up the question as like what I'm questioning. If you'd like, we talk about this a little more afterwards if you want. I'm not sure. I understand either quite
frankly. So, what you're suggesting, Mr. Clante is that you want copies of all the agendas, all the resolutions, everything available online beforehand before the meeting so you can review them. That is not a legal requirement. Um and the council can decide whether they wish to or not. Right.
That's a motion. Take the motion again. Oh god. Almighty. Do you guys want to make a motion? Is Is there a hardship and actually there's there's actually a motion on the floor though, correct?
Yes, there is. No, there's a motion for C. Can I ask a question? Isn't this all online? I think it's been I've I've seen this online. Everything the budget's not online from last year. Everything is online. Okay. So, the budget this year won't be online either. I I don't know. News to me.
We don't have a budget yet. We haven't had a budget meeting. Oh, really? Okay. But I'm saying years past it's not online. Is that the inevitably? Oh, it's not online last year. You're saying last year it was, but we're in 2020. Okay. Why do you got to gang? I'm just asking. Are we going to move the meeting? Question. This is not Okay. I mean,
we have Mr. Clerk, I have a question. Go ahead. Is Is this a problem for making it available? If it needs to be available to the public before time, it's it's totally up to Council President. If he wants this information out to the public prior to the meeting, then we can make it happen. But I
council president the the problem is these consent agendas are never provided in a timely manner. I never get them at the last meeting that the bills weren't up there. I mean it's it's it's
frustrating to me compared to before the last two years. Uh honestly I don't know what the hell's going on anymore. I just readed the a half an hour before the meetings. I can't. You should have You should have got a
lot longer than a half an hour before the meeting. I believe that Mike posted the agenda three days two days ago or three days ago. So, it is getting better. Council President, we there is there's we have to vote on item C. Yes. However, a motion was made if
But there's a motion on the floor ready for C, right? There is a motion on the floor for item C. Um, well, not I'm sorry. There has not been a motion made with respect to item C yet. There was a motion made by Councilman Sakoszi for the council to direct the clerk to provide hard copies
or or post. I'm not sure I understand what that motion not hard copies. So, Councilman Sakosi, your motion again, please is to provide the agenda 2 three days before the meeting in its entirety.
It was I mean I read it. I went online like everybody else. I I I Justin, I don't know how you could say that because two days ago, two days ago, we were up to letter E. This afternoon, two hours before this meeting, we made it up to J. We're going to move for the meeting or is this going to be show show time for
the Mohill gang? Is so that a motion can be heard and determined. This is like showtime for the Mo Hill gang. All right, let's that's essentially what it is. It's election season again. They're going to run an election. Can we get back into being more professional,
please? This is just unbelievable. I'm sorry. Let's get back into order here. Dave, you were making a motion. I understand what you want. U personally, I would like to have an opportunity to meet with council and then discuss this
and for our next meeting, we can bring it up again and vote on it. Okay. Is that all right? I That's very good idea. Thank you. I resend. Okay, my motion. Thank you. Thank you, Dave. All right, so then
let's vote on resolution C. I'm sorry. Sorry. Are you Are you finished? Well, sorry, mayor. I take exception to the Mohill gang. That's not why I'm up here. I I wasn't I wasn't talking about you, Mr. Mr. Galante, but your five minutes is up, right? Okay.
Can we move the meeting? Can I do uh can I do I while I'm standing up here, or should I wait? Should probably wait. Yeah, let's do let's let's stay in order. Okay, thank you. Anyone else on C? Anyone else on C? Thank you.
Come on up. Come on up. I see a hand back there. Yes, please come forward. Oh jeez. Here we go. You're applauding for Paul Williams, Broad Street, Toms River.
with regard to item C and it may apply to other items, but specifically with regard to item C. Item C on the agenda that was posted on the township website about two or three
hours before this meeting this evening was listed under I think it referred to as consent item 8. the hard copy that we have in our hands this evening that's been on the table only a couple hours after the meeting.
Uh, excuse me, only a couple of hours after what was posted online is actually on item uh, excuse me, item number 10. I have a copy of it here on my laptop. I pulled it up as I was hearing this discussion about where it is. Couple of
hours ago, it's under item 8. Tonight at this meeting, it's under item 10. There's a huge difference between what is being posted online and what actually happens at the meeting.
Huge difference. With that being said, I just wanted to make the point on that because I I hear a lot of confusion and discussion about what is and isn't being posted to the public for public notice. Aside from that, the council president, with regard to item C, I would like to
remind you that this is your meeting and there's video that's displaying that almost every time someone comes up here with a comment or a question, you don't say anything. The mayor does. And then we have
uh other council members jumping into the conversation. We can't get through simple public comment without interruptions mostly coming from the mayor as well as coming from Councilman Lamb and then others are instigated and
antagonized into joining in. In the years that I've been coming to these meetings, I barely heard the mayor or the business administrator say anything. And when I did hear them, they were looked upon by
the council president to address a particular issue if the council president didn't know it. Sir, and I'm trying to be as respectful as possible about this, but if we watch the video and the people in in this audience are paying it close enough attention, they see that you don't have a single
substantive answer for anything that is on these agendas. That's terrifying that this council doesn't know what you're voting on, including, and I want to keep saying I'm talking about item C, but wherever it
applies, it applies. It's terrifying to see that this is what our council mostly comprises of right now. Thank you. Have we finished this? One more. Oh, I'm sorry. Come right ahead.
My name is Jerry Ambrosio, 938 Milstone Court. Um, council president, Mr. Coleman, I would just like to know, sir, the monies that were moved uh to have the festivities for um Easter, unfortunately, that had to be cancelled. Are they going to remain now at Wreck or
are they going back to where they came from? I'll have to pass that question on to the business administrator. They'll be allocated where they need to be allocated, but they were So, what we're giving permission for is not just for them to be moved to wreck to be used for that specific uh event,
but to be used wherever they're needed. Is that correct? Correct. These are Okay. These are funds that All right. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Motion to approve resolution C. I'll make the motion. We have a second.
I'll second the motion. A motion is made by Councilman Lobin and seconded by Councilman Nverson. Councilman Loen. Yes. Councilman Nson. Yes. Councilman Sakosi. [Music] I'm taking a shot in the dark here. Uh, yes.
Councilman Lamb. Yes. Councilman Quinnless. Sure. Council Vice President Oul Council President Coleman was when I read it. Okay, moving on to resolution H.
I would have second who proposed the discussion on resolution H. That's all. I think everybody would agree. I don't I'm sorry. Resolution H. H. Yes. Resolution.
Resolution H. uh that uh um is that moving uh all engineering to Morgan Engineering, our entire engineering department? Mr. President, would you like me to answer? I would appreciate the president should be aware. President
he can he can defer to administration who sets the agenda. You would know that, Jim, because you deferred to administration for four years. Whoa, whoa, time out. We're out of order already. Jim, you asked the question. Let me answer you. Okay, look. I am not proficient in every single
phase of what goes on in township government. I try hard. I've only been here for what, three months and I'm learning, but I also have the intelligence that when something comes up, you go to the professionals that are professional in
that area. Okay. So, I do pass on Excuse me, Mr. I'd like to pass it on to somebody who has the background to answer your question. Mr. Coleman, you're still supposed to have a basic knowledge of every one of these ordinances so that we should we can ask you and get something out of it.
And he does. Hold on. Excuse me. The council president's job is to move the meeting so you're aware. Move the meeting. It's a job to create the He can't do that when you keep interrupting. So please I'm just telling you that you're wrong with the duty of the gavl while Mr. Lamb is talking over me. Please.
But it's you don't have the floor, Jim. Neither does Councilman Lamb. I quote, "Mayor, even if the Mo Hills Club screens out, it doesn't change the fact that you're on the floor. Stop. Just stop right now. If I'm supposed to be running this meeting, I
want to run this meeting." Well, if he wants I want to run this meeting. If If he wants an answer, [Applause] Mayor, if he wants Mayor, mayor, don't put me in this position. If
he leaves, please. All right, let's folks, please, you don't help me. Okay, he is running a meeting. All right, he's running a meeting. My question was, what is the what is the what is going on with Morgan Engineering? Are they taking over our entire engineering department or we just subcontracting some work to
them? And how come the contractor though listed hourly rates for every position did not have a not to exceed amount on that? Did you want an answer or not? Just a minute, mayor. Okay, Jim. I don't know. Okay. Okay, that's fine. All right. I don't know.
Can we ask the engineer? Ask him up. Invite him up. Is the engineer here? Would would All right, then. Mayor, you have a comment. Okay. Yes. Well, that that's what always happened though. Jim, what always happened is the administration answered
the questions about administrative actions, which is what's supposed to happen. So you could put on a display and all this silliness and you could have your club members scream out from the peanut gallery or you can ask the
question and have the question answer. Right? You're a voter. You're a voter and you're yelling out. Do you want to know about the engineering? Right. Okay. So do you want the answer or not? All right. Listen. Let the mayor speak and then when you have public comments, you can come up and react to
his answer. Okay? Please, can we get Let's make this look like a respectful meeting. Okay? We're on TV. I you know, it doesn't help when you yell out from the audience either. It doesn't help at all. Okay?
Just listen. I'm going to answer I'm not going to answer the question. You guys could vote on it if you'd like to vote on it or not vote on it. How can we vote? But without it's possible to answer the question when you're doing what you're doing and you got a big smile on and I it's it's really childish. Do you want to answer
or not? Mr. President, what is the not to exceed amount of this contract and is it going to be all engineering contracts are open-ended when it comes to appointments like this. You don't know when they're billing you because they're billing by the hour. They are taking the place of a
$700,000 group of people in town hall and they're going to do it a heck of a lot cheaper. It's not easy to get a township engineer. We advertised. We have a pool. They're in the pool. They're highly qualified and they're going to run the department like like most municipalities.
So, we have most municipalities don't hire $250,000 engineers to the tune of two and multiple inspectors. Most townships sub out and get a better rate for the taxpayer and get more qualified personnel. That's what this is. We're
subbing out engineering, Jim. So, this is going to be cheaper, more cost effective, and we've cut like everything I've done has been aside from the two engineers, we're cutting more staff. Are we cutting staff? You just said five. I didn't say five. You did. No, I didn't. Okay.
I didn't hear five. I didn't say five. All right. Let's Do we have a motion to approve or is there any public comment? I'm sorry. On H. Yes. Come, please, forward. Robert Burns, 531 Lily Road in Tom's River. The The only thing I have to say
about uh subletting out engineering department is we just don't want to be in a position if we have another Sandy and it's a privatized company. Is this company subleted to us exclusively?
Are we number one if a disaster happens? If something happens to a lot of homes or streets, will we be serviced first like they're our own? If they're contracted and they have to work here and Morgan wants to call them away, they
can't because our contract says we come first. Then it might be effective. It might be cost effective. As long as we can come first. There's a difference between Wawa Coffee and 7-Eleven. They're both good and but one costs
less, you know, but as long as we can get the good out of it and as long as we can be treated as number one, which is what the council is trying to do, as long as we know that you guys got our backs,
um moving this decision to be privatized is okay. But if it's if we're not going to be number one, it's got to stay municipal. We uh with with the exception that if they get overwhelmed, we call in outside agencies
to assist us. We have nine nine companies that do engineering work. The township engineer role inspects projects and manages the departments of building and zoning and oversees that. Uh but we have a very robust pool of engineers
that are highly specialized. Mr. McGucken went over this at the last meeting. Uh and we have a lot of people that do work for us and these companies like Morgan are very large. They have a lot of staff. Um they're very talented and they see a lot of different things
because they're in all different towns. Uh as opposed to having blinders on. You know, sometimes when people are working in the same place for a long time, they don't they don't have other experiences. And frankly, right now, even if we wanted to hire a municipal engineer for the town, it's very difficult to find.
So, private sector pays a lot more money. I agree with those things. Just we can't be sacrificed for saving money as long as the contract exclusively says you you have to assign somebody to us
immediately when we call you and they have to be here. They absolutely have to be here. All right. I think we need to take that's reasonable. They they are here. So they they're here several days a week. And they're they're off in their hammock
sleeping. They got to come back now. Right. That could happen when an employee, right? As long as the contract is solidified that they have to come when you called them. Yes. They they said, "Well, I'm in I'm in Miami. Well, you got to get on a plane and get back here right now."
I agree. I agree. Absolutely. Yes, ma'am. Did we jump to the shelter? Uh Julie Adam, 69 Cedar Grove Road, Tom's River. Um on this issue, the I have a couple of comments. one uh as far
as trying to advertise and look for another municipal engineer um I think what's happened over the last three months with this town um and just uh slashing one position after
another. uh anybody that was um a professional that was going to be considering a position would be looking and reading uh um articles on their potential employer. And I think that this new administration
uh the things that they've been doing for the last three months are creating uh problems as far as getting qualified uh um new hires. So I think that's part of this issue. Um, and then the other issue I have is this to me it seems like
a conflict of interest because the owner of Morgan Engineering is actually a county commissioner. So to me that seems like a little bit of a conflict there. [Applause]
Anyone else? like to have a motion then to approve resolution H. Motion made second. A motion is made by council vice president Oul and seconded by Councilman Lamb. Council Vice President Oul Councilman Lamb.
Yes. Councilman Sakosi. I'm against anything being subbed out from town hall because the way the township should work is the engineering, the mayor and the
business administration should be here all the time 9 to5 extra hours not something out. It has nothing to do with this engineering company or any other engineering company.
our problems get solved quicker and faster inhouse. So, I'm I'm voting no. Councilman Loman, over the past three decades, this township has been engineered by various
engineering firms, not just municipal employees. Uh, I could tell you at least three or four of them under Kagglestro that that worked with me in the past. There's nothing wrong with having a engineering firm from the outside contracted to do this particular type of
work. They have far more expertise than one of our guys would have in just his knowledge. They can pull from staff in the in the company itself from any level of it, whether it's structural or whether it's permitting or zoning. They they do know their business and they
know it probably more so than we would have somebody coming in and just being a municipal worker. There's nothing wrong with this. If you're going to use somebody, make sure that they're the right company, that's all. And if this guy has the right background, which I've been told
he does, it's a good enough firm. They're a big enough firm. We're going to have people situated in the office, the same office that is running it right now. I'm going to vote yes because I think there's nothing wrong with the suggestion to bring in a design firm
that can handle any opportunity that we need them for. Councilman Iverson. Yes. Councilman Quinnless. Although I have no objection to Morgan Engineering, their fine firm. Uh I'm a little concerned that we're going to exceed what it cost us to do it in-house and we're not going to get the attention
as the other gentleman pointed out that a town of our size necessarily uh uh would benefit from. So I'm going to have to say no at this time. Council President Coleman. Yes. Resolution I. Is that you, Jim? also. No, that was public.
Okay. Some who Yes, sir. Dennis Galanti, Cherokee, for conserv. So this I guess this is like C and H and I just resolutions that I think are incomplete on all the Texas. So I guess
this is actually this is the dissolving of the Tom animal shelter between the lease of the property and putting out animal control service to a different company. So my question is trying to find the expenses the operating budget of the
animal shelter what is the cost of this service compared to what we paid through our animal control officers and that's the information that I don't have in the resolution if you would uh allow me. So, uh, the
subcontractor who does an awful lot of towns in the county, does Lacy, for example, they charge $200 per animal pickup. If you were to go on the state's website, you would see that uh we average somewhere in the neighborhood of
400 or so animals uh a year. So, you're talking about $80,000 versus a facility that probably costs somewhere between six and $800,000 a year, depending on how you calculate it, uh, to run. Uh,
but even if it costs that to run, if it were running well, I I would leave it alone. U, but I think I've been clear as to why I feel the county would do a better job at it. Um, that's but but but but it's a
significant savings. Hundreds of thousands of dollars difference. Hundreds. Three years ago, I called animal control. I had a rabid raccoon chasing me around in my backyard. They were there at my house within seven minutes. How long is it going to take one of
these people to get to take care of that problem? You know, I don't I understand the tax savings involve this and not increasing taxes, but that's all. Thank you.
City. Any other comments on I I'm sorry. Yes, sir. Please come forward. [Music] sir, you're kind of tall, so could you try to Yes. Hold the mic up.
Thank you very much. Alan Alfano, Bon Avenue, Tom's River. Uh, good evening. I am one of four full-time animal control officers employed in the township. I thought I'd come up tonight because I have the unique point of view.
um that before taking the job here over a year ago, I was employed in the same capacity in Stafford Township. Stafford Township also experimented with going private with a academy. Yeah.
For their own reasons. Loss of staff for one because of wages. That's that's their business. In late July, they had no staff to run their animal control department. So they had no choice but to outsource to a academy.
In late August, early sorry, late September, early October, they reached out to me to ask me if I wanted to come back and work full-time as an animal control officer because they almost immediately regretted going
private. And that was twofold. one because of the outcry from their citizens. Not only because the service took a major step backwards and after nearly four decades
of a service that they had grown accustomed to, the outcry from the public regarding public safety above all else was their main concern. They were concerned that dangerous dogs
running around the neighborhood with uh possibly, you know, fighting the public or getting into fight with other animals could take upwards of two hours for a academy to respond if they responded at all. And when it came to
expenses for the public for other services rendered that are not legally required at the bare minimum for animal control, such as an injured swan on your front lawn for all of our
waterfront properties. A Academy has no obligation under state law to respond to that call. Animal control only is legally responsible for vector species animals, animals that can contract and spread
rabies like your raccoons and your skunks and your possums, etc. So when a academy won't come out for the injured swan on somebody's front lawn who's now getting aggressive towards them, the alternative will be they'll send
their pest control service company out at an expense to the homeowner. And that is a a service that we provide now at no cost to the homeowner. So
the public safety and the expense of the township people was enough for Stafford Township to hear them. And after a mere months of using a academy, they opened up their contracts. They revamped their
salaries. They stabilized leadership. And they reinstated their animal control department. And it's still going strong two years later. And they they never looked back. Uh, a Academy currently
has two animal controls control officers on staff. They just recently lost one. They cover eight townships. Thomas River would be their ninth in Ocean County alone. From Little Lake Harbor to Long Beach Island to Brick.
When those dangerous animals are out in the public and potentially causing a hazard and a liability and a lawsuit to the township, it's not okay that it's going to take upwards of two hours to get those dangerous animals off the street. It's a
public safety issue and it's a township liability issue. Stafford Township also realized that a academy would not handle the quarantining of sick animals or dog
bites. They don't do rabies testing. All of which are things required by the health department. These are services that your local animal control officers already take care of without stressing out the health department.
And it's a concern that the township would have to take on who's going to do these services because a academy does not provide them. Private companies also won't bring any money into the township. Stafford's licensing fees last year brought in $50,000 for their their dog
and cat licenses in 2023. They have a third of our population. Guess that's my time. Go ahead. You can finish, sir. Thank you. If animal control, which is separate from the animal shelter, although we
work out of the animal shelter, if we're allowed to get out and do our jobs and enforce the licensing fees, we can bring in more than Stafford Township is bringing in to offset costs to support animal control of itself.
I haven't seen the bid myself. It's easier for you guys to see it, but as the mayor said, they charge up to $200 per call, sometimes up to 250. Last year, we ran a,000 calls. That's $200,000.
We're basically breaking even with the staff of animal control that you have now with officers in town who live in town, obviously work in town, and spend money in town and care about this town. and its residents.
I have some information packets here that I ask that you look over before making any sort of vote. And in fact, if anybody would like to in a private setting, I would love to sit down and discuss more about what animal control can be doing to this town and why it's
important. Thank you. You hear that? Yes, sir. How's it going? I'm Tom Pella. uh Jaclyn Court. Um I didn't think I was going to be talking tonight because uh it wasn't on that
docket. It's still not uh still not all what's online. But um Mayor, last week or or last month, I think when you uh Excuse me. Could you hold the mic because I can't hear? Last month when you talked about numbers, uh you know, you said that you
know, your interest was really the quality of life for the for the animals. My wife's in the back. She's not going to like that I say this. But when I looked at the numbers, the reason why I didn't come to that protest is when
I I could eat it, but All right. So, karaoke done. All right. So, I didn't come to the protest last week uh last last month because when I looked at the numbers, honestly, I kind of thought that you were right. I
thought it looked I thought it looked clean. Um since then, we've pulled the numbers um going from uh Thompson Animals Shelter to Ocean County as a whole on an adoption
on an adoption. Um you have Ocean County um or Tom River Animal Shelter is beating Ocean County by up to 11 points. Okay, this uh they're beating uh Northern Ocean by 11 I think it was let me go back to 2021 here.
So if you look dogs uh this is adopted after owner retrievalss because I don't think anyone should be responsible for a lost dog. So when we talk about uh adoptions there were that 55% of the
animals that were taken in compared to 44% at uh what's northern ocean. So that's an 11 point um now I think we recognize that there was issues last year um some issues with the board. I I don't know.
Seems like there still is, but that's not my thing to So, last year the numbers dropped off a little bit. Dropped to 15 points down. 20 in 2023, 38 points, okay, 85% of of the dogs that
were brought in that didn't have didn't have a home to go to were adopted out compared to this North Ocean uh Ocean County's 47.48%. If you look at Ocean County's numbers,
they also lose a lot of dogs. I I don't know that lose died or escaped from the shelter. I don't know. I don't know what that statistic means. So, I think that some of the numbers that you were given or maybe some of the
numbers that you saw if we look at the Asbury Park Press, they were incorrect. 250 wasn't the right number. Right number was actually 212. 38 adoptions. If you add the two together, you get to 250. But I think that number was incorrect. And that
number greatly changes changes the outcome and it ch changes the success rate for uh for the shelter as far as euthanizing uh which I I know is something certainly to consider. Tom River is arguably
better at that too. Um or close I should say close when we look when we look at the animals there for cats. Um, not so much uh not so much when you look back to 21 22 23 the numbers. I mean you
could see it right here. I mean I've got everything green across the board in every category. So this is this is last year comparing and I and I compared it each and every way. I know you're a numbers guy. You're a data guy. I compared total animals brought in. I
brought compared animals that that had owners, animals that didn't have owners, animals versus animals that were euthanized versus animals that came in uh DOA and times of animal shelter is better each and every way across the board. So
that along with what the gentleman before me said, I really think it's something that should be looked at. I think the last my last point here is that at last meeting we talked about how a million dollar
donation would cover animal control for two years and now we're talking about $600 to $800,000 a year. So I'm not sure how that number changed so quickly. Um, so what happened, the reason some of that
money got spent was uh the leadership at the uh animal shelter, they purchased uh two two like a washer and dryer, a um industrial type. They were about 30,000 or more a piece and uh they didn't fit
through the door and they sat outside 6 months or a year. Uh when we got here, uh we spent some of the money to uh get the machines inside and to repair some of the broken cages and so on and so
forth. But if you bear with me, I'd really like to address the kill numbers. Uh the last time the state data came out was the 2021 data. Uh our shelter didn't report in 2022. And uh I know some folks are saying
there were these other numbers now, but I could tell you that in 2021 when the state reported data uh Tom's River picked up somewhere in the neighborhood of uh 400 and some odd uh dogs and put
down 12, correct? And then the county, excuse me, put down 50. We we 2021 we put down 50 about 50 animals 50 dogs out of somewhere in the neighborhood of uh 250 dogs picked up or something along
those lines about 12.5% and then at the county the same year they put down.5% right no you can go ahead I'm listening I said I have I have 18 for 21 u for 22 right but what did you have for the county and that
oh uh it's the difference between a half a percent and 12 and a half percent. The county put down a half a percent, we put down 12 and a half percent, which means a dog would be 25 times more likely to get put down in Tom's River Shelter than at a county shelter. If you're looking at 50 54 dogs compared
to the 954 brought in, right? You just divide one by the other to get the percentage, right? So, you're talking about what was it? Am I correct? 50 50 out of 50 54 out of the 954 brought in, which would be 9%. I think you don't have the
state data in front of you. I I have it. I can share it with you. Yeah, this is a A data. This is the No, not EP data, but the data that was reported to the state of New Jersey by our shelter. I'll I'll share it with you if you like when this is over. If you're talking to Tom River animal shelter, yeah, I have those I have those reports. The only thing I don't have is
the Southern Ocean County, the one uh for mom. It's all on the state sheet. You're supposed to report Tomz did not report in 2022 and the kill numbers were outrageous in 2021. So, I I could show them to you if you like. It's the state's data and I think it's good data. I think yeah, I think there's I think
there needs to be a review of it because the information may not be correct for you. It may not be correct for everyone here. But I I I think that again the numbers that I'm looking at which is apparently the the reported data. That's what I've been told. I I think like I said I if you want as
soon as this is over I'll I'll show you the state data where we report and it would have been it would have been Tom's River that reported to the state. it would have been the county that reported to the state and as I said it was uh 12 and a half% of the dogs we put down uh
the county put down a half of 1% a half uh so it's it's quite a staggering difference in 2021 based on the state data uh I don't know where the A data comes from but I I I did look at the state data myself it comes from the state reports the only way you get to 1/ half or 1% is actually
is if you don't multiply it by um multiply and make it 5% % but again if you don't if you don't take out like owner pickups you know I if I'm an owner we have two dogs at home if I lose my dog you know I that shelter better not
kill my dog so I mean those numbers shouldn't be counted even against against the numbers I don't think it's an accurate depiction and I'd be happy to take a look at those numbers with you what I'd ask is that we suspend the vote until uh until that that could be done just just to make sure we all have
accurate information if you want If you want to, I'll get up. I'll show you. Anyone? I'd ask the board please suspend the vote. Anyone else wish to comment? Yes, ma'am. It's right here.
He went away. Uh Julie Adam, 69 Cedar Grove Road in Tom's River. Um I've been up before the council a number of times uh over the last uh three months. Um so I'm here here again to talk about this topic. Um
one thing that I'm um I want to zero in is on is there's a different staff. The staffing's been increased recently at the animal shelter, but there's a different staff than there was in uh 2021. Uh that would be like saying there
was fraud in the Toms River Township 10 years ago and 10 years later we're still talking about the same thing. The there we were told in January by the mayor himself that he was going to make these
changes and evaluate them and then and if everything was going well keep this shelter open. Now can I can I interrupt just one second? I I'm a little confused, which is not unusual, but anyway, this resolution, I
believe, talks about whether or not AA Academy Termite and Pest Control would be hired for animal control services. We're not talking about the shelter per se. We're talking about animal control right now. So, I'd
really like to focus on animal control and the word ordering the awarding of the contract. Well, as far as specifically just with animal control, the our animal control is able to go out and rescue wildlife. If there's a deer that's stuck in mud, when they had the
rabbits that got released by some hoarder over at Katis Island and there were 20 or 30 of them, they went out and rescued them. That and none of those services are going to be available through this a academy. Um, again, just
as the other uh speakers have said, if there's a dangerous uh a dangerous dog, there could be a dangerous dog in the Walmart shopping center. Um, you know, are you going to wait for 2 hours for somebody to respond? And now I'm hearing that they cover eight towns and they
have two or three animal control officers for eight or nine towns. That is absolutely ridiculous. We are a 44 mile uh town. Uh we ha uh we have loads
of people that have numerous animals and a large area to cover. And to have two animal control officers in a company that's going to cover eight towns, you know that right off the bat, the response time is going to be poor or
non-existent. I mean, that's that doesn't take uh Sherlock Holmes to figure that out. Um, and um, I just want to I just want to reiterate that the response time is going to be is definitely going to be slower and I'm
going to ask you to uh, when this comes up for a final vote to uh, vote no on this. Yes. In the back, please come forward. Hi, my name is Susan Carney. Is that too loud? No, it's good. That's good. 802 Main Street in Tom's River. I've
been lived in Tom's River 56 years. Privatizing animal control. Let me take this off. Privatizing animal control means no oversight and no transparency for our animals. It shuts out the public from
interacting with care. Please realize these are pest control companies and there are many that have horrible reputations. As an animal advocate for 13 years in this town, I can attest to that. There have been many horrible situations with a academy um you know
with raccoons um mother rescuing mother raccoons but knowing that there are babies in the attic and leaving them to die. Um I don't know if you guys are familiar with the three dogs that were starved to death by a woman in Lacy maybe about 5 years ago. Um AA Academy
had a chance to interact and to prevent that and those dogs were starved to death by that woman. They were involved with that. So just to give you a little, you know, knowledge about any kind of private animal control. So please, please, you know, let let's keep our
animal control officers of the town. It's the best for the animals. There are many animal lovers in our town and, you know, we need it to keep keep it local and we're going to fight it to the end to to make sure that it doesn't get privatized. So I hope you all feel the
same way. Thank you. [Applause] Yes, sir. Hello, Council. Michael Cohen, Stark Road. [Music] All right, so I'm not going to let you
misrepresent our numbers. I know you can look up our numbers anytime you want from your buddy Drew. You can come down and take a look, but I'm not going to let you get away with it. All right, so let's get into it. For 2021, Ocean County, uh, their euthanasia rate
was 26.8. 26.8, not.5, 26.8. Different numbers. Excuse me. Again, are we talking about pest control? I'm just again I'm a little confused here. This relates to to the animal shelter,
sir. I know that, but we we're trying to find out whether a contract for a academy termite and pest control for animal control services would be approved. That's why we're really on this resolution. Okay, I understand, sir. However, I would like
to correct misinformation if I might have just a moment. This is the point in the meeting where you should do that at the end of the meeting when it's time for public comment. Right now, we really need to hear comment about the awarding of the contract for pest control. Okay. And you can come up at the end of the meeting and and state your case. All
right. You got it, sir. Thank you very much. I appreciate you surrendering the mic. Thank you. Yes. in the back. You can hold You can hold the mic, ma'am. You I I do better if it's in the stand. Okay. Irene Watson, Messenger Street, Tom's
River. Um my son's dog was rescued uh just this past summer. It was very efficient. He got out of the yard. Um, I was babysitting for his daughter. We
drove around the neighborhood for about an hour. I finally called my son. He called down to the uh Toms River shelter. Um, a neighbor of his saw the dog. The
police came and picked up the dog within a few minutes. He was taken to the animal shelter. He was booked. My son came and posted bond bail and he was
returned home, I would say within a half an hour. So, I'm very happy with the service that the Tom's River um animal shelter and whatever uh provided for my son's dog. Thank you.
Thank you. And ma'am, you'll be next. Okay. This young lady's going to speak first and then you'll be get your turn. Hi, I'm Liz Doric, Feeasant Lane, Tom's River. Well, obviously Tom's River. I just wanted to um I don't know if we're allowed to ask questions, but when I
looked up when I saw on the agenda that this contract was going to be awarded to this A Academy, I did do a quick peruse of their website, and I didn't notice them talk at all about any kind of animal control for domestic animals that might get loose. And I'm just concerned
that if they're like specializing in raccoons and and wildlife animal, that's a different animal. And I know that with our animal control officers in town, they do wear a badge and they do hold
authority and I think that that helps in situations where you have a violent dog and a situation like that. And last time I had to come up here to speak to you all, um, I did ask you to just think about what you're voting on. And that's
what I want to say right now. Do you know this a academy? What they're like? You just heard a gentleman that I don't know, but he he just talked about the Stafford Township thing. And I think that an important thing for a government to do is to look at mistakes that might
have been made in other places. And maybe you're not always right. And I know it's hard to sometimes be wrong, but perhaps you guys can just think about this and not automatically say yes to this contract. When we've got
something that works now, maybe you don't need to fix it. And that's just um my thoughts. Not not as a Peanut Gallery member, but as a resident of Tom's River, a proud
resident of Tom's River, a res a resident that votes and that would like to be listened to, and more importantly to be heard because you give us time to talk. I'm just asking you guys to really
listen and to hear what we're asking. don't just automatically vote for this outsourcing. Outsourcing doesn't always work. It really doesn't. They don't have a real concern for us and our town. And
I thank you very much for your time tonight. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to say something, Councilman. Yeah, I'd like to say something right now. I think we should table this for
more consideration. To me, termite and pest control, that's exterminators in my book. Okay, I know the animal control officers, they're doing an excellent job. I will personally oversee the shelter to make sure it's running at
total efficiency if need be. But I say we table this resolution for more consideration. Council President, I would like to second this motion. Please take a vote.
A motion to table item I has been made by Councilman Iverson and seconded by Councilman Sakosi. Councilman Iverson, yes. Councilman Sakosi, absolutely yes. Councilman Lamb. No. Councilman Loman, I think there's enough discussion here
to warrant tableabling it and doing it again. Let's talk about it a little bit. I would be very interested in seeing how many staff are with this a company and looking a little bit more into it. I don't have any objections to
passing it. So, I'll say no. I mean, yes, I'm sorry. What the vote is to table it, right? So, table it. Yeah. Motion to table gets confusing. Yeah. Councilman Quinnless. Yes. Council Vice President Otul.
Sitting here listening to a lot of the talking tonight. And I have to go with my heart on this one too. I think I'm going to vote to table this also until we can see.
And Council President Coleman. Yes. Item I has been tabled indefinitely or to a future meeting? Future meeting. You should put a ter limit on it where we can sit down and look at all avenues.
I say we table it indefinitely. Mr. McGuffin. Is that [Applause] Thank you very much. [Applause] Thank you. We appreciate that.
The motion the motion did not include a particular date that it's tabled. So it's tabled indefinitely at this point juncture. Council can bring it back anytime they wish. Okay. Thank you. Absolutely correct. Okay. Moving on to resolution J.
Okay. That was me I believe. Yes. Okay Dave. Go ahead. Hi, I just had a a quick question if uh someone knows it or Mr. Rodrik knows it. Is is he um replacing or is it another
addition to the pool? Mayor, it says that we're putting him in the pool. It says uh resolution of the township council of Tom's River, Ocean County, authorizing the retention of the firm Coronado Law for pool legal and
litigation services for the calendar year 2024 to be utilized on an as needed basis. All right. So, he's just being added to the pool. Correct. Correct. Yes, I believe that's what it says. That's what it says.
Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, seeing no one else, I call for a motion. I make a motion. Second a motion. Motion's made by Council Vice President Otul and seconded by Councilman Nuson.
Council Vice President Otul. Yes. Councilman Nason. Yes. Councilman Sakosi. I'm going to vote yes, but uh it it it seems like we're adding uh a lot of legal law firms uh everywhere. So, uh, I vote yes.
Councilman Lamb, yes. Councilman Lman, yes. Councilman Quinnless, yes. Council President Coleman, yes. Moving to the reports. Got a motion to approve the building part. I'm sorry, the reports on item 11.
Reports. Second. Sorry. Who made the motion? Councilman Iverson. Councilless. Motion's made by Councilman Quinn and seconded by Councilman Loman. Councilman Quinn, yes. Councilman Loen, yes. Councilman Sakosi.
These numbers are wonderful. Every department is up as I could see. And um and I just want to say if if we would fix up Bailey Golf Course, the building and everything, these numbers
would even be higher to put back into the infrastructure. So, uh, I vote yes on the reports. Councilman Lamb, yes. Councilman Nverson, yes. Council Vice President Otul, yes. Council President Coleman,
yes. Moving to the approval of the bills. And I have motion to approve bills. I'll make the motion. I'll second the motion. A motion made by Councilman Lman and seconded by Councilman Iverson.
Councilman Lman. Yes. Councilman Nisonson. Yes. Councilman Sakosi. Yes. Councilman Lamb. Abstain from bill number 24-01461 and also abstain from all bills payable to the menrate salaries and yes to the balance.
Councilman Quinn. I have to abstain from the all bills payable to the board uh board of fire commissioners district 2 and Remington Vernick Engineers. Yes to the balance. Council vice president Oul. Yes. Council President Coleman. Yes.
elected officials comments. Okay, we're going to start from my far right. Councilman Lamb. Thank you, Council President. Just want to say that I glad to report that we moved the kayak racks at Bayside Park to behind the tennis courts and it's looking to shape up over there for the
uh summer season. I'm actually going to be meeting with the um trustees of the OBVTA um sometime prior to April 20th. Then we have a public meeting on April 20th. I should have some uh any complaints or any issues we have to bring up at the next council meeting.
That's all this evening. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Klick. Well, uh you know, before I got here tonight, I was wondering how uh Mr. Rodick is going to put some sort of victory spin on the repeal of the police ordinance. And I guess we got what uh the best spin he can come up with. Um
it's the people's responsibility to keep the government in check. And clearly that's what happened here today. The ordinance that handcuffed our police department was wrong from its inception and it never should have happened. We have one of the best police departments, best police officers, best
citizen staff, and above all leadership that keep this uh department running lean and efficient and has been doing so since well before the efficiency study that was done over 20 years ago. Please let the chief do his job so that uh that
he's been doing so well for his entire career and that he and the entire police department keep this town safe and peaceful. Let them keep doing it. Thank you. Councilman Loven, I have no public comment. Okay. Councilman Nyerson,
thank you. No comment this time, Dave. Okay. Um, I want to thank everyone again and I'm going to keep saying it. Thank you for staying to the end. It's so important
and and keep coming back. It's it's your duty. Everyone in here is a patriot for for what you did, okay? And going to do in the future. All right. Um, I need your help. Okay? Tell me what I'm doing wrong
and tell me what I'm doing right. I'm going to give a 100% and I try to make every meeting that barring a catastrophe because I love this town just as much as everybody here. I I raised three kids here. They
went through school here and everyone is more eloquent when they come up to the microphone than me. So, thank you. Um, real quick, I just want to bring two things up about the governor in New Jersey. Um, uh, he said, uh, couple of
crazy things about our school system that that we should close one high school and one middle school. and uh and he based his uh reasons on because uh Tom's River does not have a large industry
or large corporations and does not have a dense population or a high population of homeowners. I have no idea what he was talking about. I don't think he does either. He's used to
Okay, that's what he said. All right. Um now the second thing that came up is um this overhaul of the Mount Laurel decision. If uh no one's familiar with that they they tell us what we can build
where we can build it homes and it and it had I haven't read the whole law yet but um it it's going to be worse than what it is now. Okay. So, um, basically
Trenton's going to tell us what to build, how much, and where, and it's out of, uh, the court's hands. And, uh, the governor said he's going to enforce it and and make comp compliance
about it. Okay. All right. Um, so I'm very conflicted. Okay. Um, I want to say some things tonight and and I'm just not sure how to say it. So, a person a long time ago
said, "He who's without sin cast the first stone." Okay. So, um, and that applies to me, but, um, I am saddened to see the way our town's being run now
compared to the last two years. Okay. Uh, it it's it's an ugliness here. It truly is. It it it's sad what's what's happening. And it's not a beautiful ship sailing like before.
It took years and decades to get to this point. And I look at all the past mayors, men and women, up on that. And I remember a lot of council people that sat here before me and in this chair and
and I understand the gravity of my decisions. Okay. I'm just petrified what's going on. Um, I do try to obey the ten commandments. I taught my kids that. Go through life.
Sometimes it's harder to do the right thing than the wrong thing. And um, now I'm I'm bouncing around all over the place. So, just try to follow me because I I I don't prepare my speeches and and
I should. Thank you. So, I want to jump to the bit. Okay. I did the a lot of research on why the mayor was always saying it only benefits a few and not the most. So, um,
and I'm trying to connect the dots. There's probably no dots to connect, but the last years, who's buying the property down here in downtown Tom's River? And believe me, I'm for property
owners, rights. America was the first country in the world where you could have private property. And and and I could see who's buying the property. My tenants have
told me that they've been getting cold calls after the uh June primary. Um, oh, is this building for sale? They're coming knocking on the door. Is this for sale? And they said, no, we're we're tenants. So, I have to tell these
people. I don't even answer them. No, the property is not for sale. So, getting rid of the bid, who's that going to benefit? You got to look at that because they don't want to pay the the seven 8% on the property taxes.
Just people. Okay. Just people. Okay. So then then we have um in the middle of April we have a big application coming downtown. 64 units. Has anyone heard about this?
It it's been awful quiet. Okay. So, um I'm worried about that also. And and I'm up for a deposition. I have to be deposed because the town's getting uh
sued um for one thing. And and my testimony has been delayed and delayed and delayed and postponed and postponed. And I think I'm the only one last uh left that hasn't been deposed. So, I
don't know what that's about. Um, and then, uh, one of the last things was, um, the last campaign we had three candidates running for mayor. And, and
one of the candidates, their total expenses were $368,000 to run for office. $368,000 and and you look on the agendas and and you see the contributions,
then you could start connecting the dots, who's getting what. Okay? and um and I just don't know what to I don't get the agenda the full agenda until the
before the meeting. I can't do my research and and it's hard to come from an administration before where I was part of it doing the work. my opinion counted and and I felt involved half of
the time I I don't know more than half of the time I don't know what the hell's going on. I I I you know I don't know how many people were fired, who's coming in, what the salaries are, insurance, uh
compliance with uh the community affairs. It it it's a mess. Truly is. So, happy Easter everyone and God bless you, [Applause]
Councilwoman Oul. I won't add anything further to that than I wish you all a blessed Easter and a joyful day and a safe one. I think it's all been said pretty much. I think everybody understands all the
issues. I'm a little disappointed how this meeting went. The meeting before this was very orderly, respectful. I think we kind of lost sight of that, but hopefully in the future we can get back to what we had the the previous meeting. But um I do thank you for coming out and
giving up your time. I really do. It's important. Mayor, your turn. Just wish everybody a happy Easter. Okay. All right. I'm going to open the meeting now for public comment. Yes, sir.
And by the way, could you do me a favor? Again, the microphone's important. All right. And also, when you say your name, if you could spell your last name, it's hard for the clerk sometimes to understand who's speaking. Okay. My name is Michael Dalvo. Uh I live in Tom's River in a community
called Saratoga. It's on the north side of Tom's River, the Forgotten Land. Okay. Uh I'm concerned from for my community and the people that live there because of the traffic situation is
horrendous. We can't even get out of our community. We can't get out of there. It's a small community. you whatever our uh zoning board or you okay a a 15 acre office complex there that comes into our
community. We're now having uh problems with water drainage because of these things and they don't respect our community. This company comes through our community with their construction uh trucks. Cars come through and cut
through constantly. We're just like a community that's in dire need of somebody Karen. What was the name of your community again? I'm sorry. Saratoga. Saratoga. It's It's in North Dover on Whitesville
and Route 70. You know you I don't know if you any of you have gone there and seen what's being built there. Okay. It's 100 ft away from my home that was okayed. That's what's happening Tom's River. That's what you're talking about.
It's right in my backyard. It's going to be in back of your backyard because the construction and what's going up in Tom's River is ungodly. It's ridiculous what you'veed and it's it's creating a safety hazard for us.
There's already been people killed on on Whitesville Road over there. And I noticed that two two lights have gone up on Whitesville, on Stevens and Riverwood over there. 27 years I've been here, nothing's ever been done. There's no new
construction. So why are they putting all of this stuff? Why is all the construction going up on Whitesville Road? Are they changing pipes and stuff for what? Whitesville is a county is a county road. So all of the lights and such that you see is uh all the county takes care
of that. So it's not Tom's River. All right. But it's in Tom's River, Mr. It is, but okay. I'm sorry, Mr. Um, Mr. Mr. McGuck, you wanted to say something. I did. That was me. Well, I just want to say that the reason why they're changing all the traffic patterns on Whitesville Road and on Old Freehold Road is because they're trying
to lessen the traffic load on Route 9. And that's between the county and the state. They came up with that plan, right? But we're residents of Tom's River. So, what are you going to do for us? Again, it's county and the state. You may want to you may want to attend a a county meeting and bring that up. I think that would be appropriate.
Yes. All right. So what else? What are you going to do for us? County road. That's what I'm trying to say. You need to go and I pay my taxes in Tom's River. I understand that. But you have any ideas? I I don't want to go talking to 50 million people.
We're we're open to your ideas. Okay. And as for all of the development this uh the new members of council want on a platform against all none of us voted for none of us voted for the vot. You're talking I know the office complex. I feel like I'm being I'm being chased from my home.
I voted against every development when I was on council. So did Councilman Lamb and the new members of council won. And I understand that uh what's his name? Who was the uh head engineer at the time? He Mr. Sakosi. He was on the planning board for like a decade. Uh who was uh David Roberts?
Okay. 12 years. 12 years. David Roberts was the engineer or 12 years on the planning board at the time this was okayed and he retired right after the project was okayed like that's a coincidence and I was here at another meeting then where another
engineer or who uh retired just right after that project was okay we're going to grab control of the overdevelopment we're going to put a stop to it I've appointed a whole new planning board uh as Mr. Sosi said he was on that planning board for 12 years. It approved an avalanche of development.
Uh this council and myself we we uh we won on a platform against the development. Uh as of now there there is no uh development that we've approved. So uh we agree with you as far as being
against but once something is being built there's nothing really that we can do right. Well you could manage what they're doing there. I mean, it's a 15 acre monstrosity that is it intrudes into our
neighborhood. There's no fencing up. Their stuff is all over the place, all all over our community. They do what they want to do. There's six buildings going up over there. How the at Mr. Pascarella, there's violations. We get out.
All right. Well, somebody get out there cuz nobody's, you know, I'm not going to go chasing after people. Maybe. Have you tried Have you tried calling in a complaint about any of the the building stuff? Not yet. Not yet. If you could always if you if you see something, say something.
Well, you know, and now you are. So, we'll send somebody to take a look. Okay. Thank you. Every every member of this committee is against the overdevelopment that you're talking about. Every member to all of us. Nobody wants that to happen. Well, two voted two of them voted for it
all. It's not an improvement. It's not an improvement. Drive down Route 9. Some of that stuff is if it's zoned for what they're doing and they're coming in in accordance with it without a lot of variables to it so that the board of adjustment doesn't have to get involved in special reasons
variances. If it's zoned for it and they don't have the variances, they're approved to do it because there's nothing really that can make us stop it. it's it's approved for that zone and they're constructing it with we don't have the control to tell them no they can't build on their own property if
it's not something requesting a variance we just don't have the ability to tell somebody no I mean it's impossible this country isn't by what's going on but we are definitely against it yeah I'll talk to you
council president I have six years of every planning board meeting that I chaired right here. Okay. Who showed up within 200 ft, what the vote was, who voted what? And there was
no sweetheart deals here. So, anytime you find a sweetheart deal, show me and we'll go through it. We'll go from there. Dave, you voted to give Dave, you voted to give a 30-year property tax abatement for 10tory
buildings downtown, and you gave the property to him for a dollar. I would say that's a hell of a sweetheart deal. And you voted for that, sir. Gentlemen, we're at the We are at public comment at this time.
Let's get back on track. Ma'am, my name is My name is Paul. I live in Saratoga condominiums on Arlington Drive. This is my first attendance of a council meeting and I'm shocked. You guys, this is embarrassing. No
professional decorum. I mean, what the hell? This is embarrassing. But what I want to say is you have to listen to us, especially you. You're our ward councilman. We can't get out of our development anymore due to the overdevelopment
that's been going on in the 22 years I've lived here. You've allowed it there. When those where the flea market was and houses when they open up, we're going to be Route 9 on Route 70. We can't get out of Whitesville Road
without fearing for our lives. Go to the county. Go to the state. What do you think we've been doing? No one's listening. No one's listening. You're sitting here fighting with each other. It's freaking embarrassing. We need some help. You need to come to one of our
meetings at Saratoga. I am the board president. We handle our meetings a whole lot better than you guys do. [Applause] It It sounds like you need a traffic light. I know the entrance.
Yeah, that's that's the first step. Well, This woman hasn't had a chance to speak yet. So, ma'am, I'll get to you right after Paul. Okay. Good evening again. Paul Williams, Broad Street, Tom's River.
Um, to follow up on something I had said earlier about uh directing my comment at the council president about the way that the meetings are ran. Um, as you may notice, I happen to be wearing a sweatshirt,
says the Towns River Police Department. Man, there's certain guys that I could never walk around wearing this sweatshirt. I'd be in a world of hurting because of the the background that I have. I can only imagine what some of the new
council members have been told about me. I'll say that there might be some truth to it. I have an extensive prior criminal record. Served a total of 17 years in New Jerseys prisons, a year here and
there in our jails. But I want to tell you something. In those 17 years, I served most of that time at Rawway. I served most of that time at Northern State. Northern State prison in New York is called Gang City.
In both of those two prisons, both of them being medium maximum security where there are men there who have committed murder. I'm not talking about murder by accident where they kind of shot blindly. Murderers.
And the point to this is is that in those institutions, I was a representative. Those men were going to hold my feet to the fire if I wasn't doing what I told them I was going to do. And that is to
speak truth to power no matter what. I don't know what you your vision of prison might be. the TV version, the movie version. But I can tell you that in that environment, the men and the women with the badges
literally could have taken my life and gotten away with it. In that environment, I still spoke truth to power. I ran meetings. I demanded decorum
in that environment. If I gave someone the floor, it was their time to talk. And it's by that structure that I gained respect. Council President, I don't think you have the respect of
your mayor. I don't think you have the respect of Councilman Lamb. And I think it kind of diminishes more and more from there. And that's unfortunate because as the council president and I would love to sit down with you and talk
to you at length about it and maybe enlighten you to some of the things that you probably have not been told about about the tremendous amount of power you have as a council president about the items that go on the agenda, the items that aren't going to be on the agenda,
who gets to talk, who doesn't get to talk, when they get to talk. You are our council president. And as much as it seems like I'm overly criticizing you, I'm saying it from a
heartfelt place. I get it. You've only been here 3 months, but I also know that you're considerably older than me and that you haven't been at council meetings in all the years that I've been here. The same with your
other uh new elect. you guys haven't been here, I would encourage you to go on the township YouTube channel and watch some of those meetings from the prior administration, except for maybe when Mayor Keller was the mayor. He was he was kind of like a
a Rodri sort of but but the prior administration is a is a thing for our mayor. constantly likes to harp about the prior administration and call people here that they're basically, you know, Mo Hills,
whatever. Since you didn't come to the meetings in all the years, you don't know how ardently I was opposed to the development on our waterfront in downtown Toms River. That to this day, I
still support an appropriate way, if it can happen, the mayor's agenda to stop that development. And I say that to say this, I'm like an umpire. I'm going to call balls and
strikes. I have no agenda. I'm on the losing team as a Democrat in Tom's River, right? But I'm going to stay a Democrat because I'm not a quitter. But I call balls and strikes. When my party's wrong, I say they're wrong. When Republicans are wrong, I say they're wrong.
But I hope I hope that helps you understand where I come from a little bit. Thank you. Well, I just have one thing to say. One of your comments, and I don't think you meant it uh to be mean. I've never really told anybody that they couldn't speak. I've tried to stop arguments, but
I've never told anybody that they couldn't speak. When people are out, let me suggest this, sir. When people are out of order, like you said, it applies for council members, probably the mayor, too, and the general public. I have yet to see you exercise that power on anyone except me.
Paul, I'm just telling one thing. I said I'd never stop anybody from speaking. That's all I said. Okay, you should, sir. Thank you. Oh, wait a minute. Ma'am, you're next. I'm sorry. Can everybody hear me?
Yes. Okay. I live at 5301 Belmont Court and I came along with a lot of other people from Saratoga. Tom's Can you tell us your name, please? I'm sorry. Nila Sims. Thank you. And we've
we're in a lot of we have a lot of problems. People are very upset, very disgruntled. A lot of people walk. It's a nice townhouse community. We're kind of stuck in a mess. We're on uh right
off Route 70 and Whitesville Road and those are our only two access and egress points which are po impossible to get out of like the prior people said. I understand 70 is a state road and
Whitesville I believe is a county road. We do not know how to approach the situation to get a light at one of those intersections and would appeal to I don't even know who our ward pres uh
okay where we'd like some help. How do we approach the county? Who do we approach? Are there forms? But we need help. It's gotten completely out of hand. What's happened is there was a lot of wooded area on 70. First they let a
storage facility come right into our backyard and then they let on the other side of our um entrance. They let a I think it's six buildings four and five stories office buildings. Now what's
happened there is this is another problem besides the traffic situation getting in and out. What's happened there is all the construction vehicles are coming through our community which is a private road. Our main road is um
Yale which we maintain. We snow plow. We cut the grass. We do everything. I think we get a a rebate from the township but we maintain it. But the majority of it is pro is uh private. The other road is
McFersonson and um which starts out as a common road and then where our community begins. It's a private road. We've posted up sign. We put up great big we had them professionally done. No through traffic.
This is a private road. The trucks and these are giant sand and gravel trucks. you know, the kind that rattle everything in your house. They keep on driving through our community. We, as a lot of us that live there, have actually
tried to stand in front of them and stop them and they laugh at us. I've gone to the construction sites to talk to the um uh supervisors and they're denying it. They litter all o over the place. Those
little uh fences, you know, where it's like black plastic and they put the post in. The litter's flying all over. Those are down. We were here for the initial meetings when they were trying to get approval and they were not going to have
any access into the center of our community. They had to come around because they have a very large entrance off of 70. Now, the word they're building it and putting all the um uh
curb line in and the islands, it's they've left a big gap right onto Yale, right at the edge of our community, which means they plan to use it. We'd like to know, have they gotten
variances? Have they changed the plans? Are they going to have access? I mean, they made a lot of problems, but I've learned the hard way that you can't believe anything that developers tell you, and you have to be on top of them every single minute because they just go
off and do what they want. And then, oh, it's too late. And then the towns will buckle and say, "Well, it was built." And we're asking for help. It's a mess there. We're at like, do we call the police when they come through with their
big trucks barreling through? But what are we going to station the police? We put the big signs up. We've stopped them. They ignore us. You may want to try calling the police to see if you have any recourse. I mean, I don't I don't we don't know
how to really approach this legally. We want to find out what are the proper steps. Who do we notify? Do we go to the county? When's your next committee meeting? The next meeting you're going to have. You know, have a date, time. Okay, we'll go.
All right. Can Can you please You're our ward representative, right? And anybody else, you're very welcome. You know, a lot of people are too shy to come to I don't know why, but they're too shy to come to a board meeting. And
um we have a big I mean there's so many other things the traffic flow I won't even get into that when you come to our meeting we'll tell you about the flow. There's just nobody's going to be able to get anywhere. Thank you [Applause]
sir. [Music] Dennis Galanthy, Cherokee Court, Tom River. So, I'm not understanding that you approved the lease for the animal shelter and yet thank you for tableabling to outsource
the animal officers, control officers. Isn't that one and the same, though? Aren't they interlocked together and working out of the same building? To me, that doesn't make any sense. So, it's basically getting rid of the animals. Now, there was a million
dollars in donations, but there's also another million dollars plus for a trust fund. I understand besides washers and dryers and, you know, taking care of the cages. Where is that money going to go? where that by statute or by by law I
think those donations are not allowed they're they're specific for that purpose and they're not allowed to be red redistributed is that correct so it would depend upon what the donation is and what the legal instrument is that creates that provides
the donation the million dollars itself well both I think also the trust fund both of them were specifically don donations for a purpose I that I don't No, all I can tell you is that the uh donation from Ms. Pine and
her will uh is being reviewed to determine uh what has to be done or not done with it. That'll be done. What's that? We're reviewing that now. Okay. Uh what what happened to the past meetings archive on the Tom River
website? Certain ones just vanished. Where'd they go? And why why were they removed? You've asked me this before. Sorry. You've asked us this before. No one removed. Did you remove it? No, I don't think I did. You did. You asked me in the in the back
of the room two meetings ago. It might have been for one there was something missing, but now there seems to be more. Maybe you could just if I spoke to you in the back, maybe you can address my question for the audience. I'm I'm not aware of anybody taking
anything down. How far back did those meetings go? Uh, a couple weeks. Uh, maybe two or three, four meetings passed. Okay, we'll look at it. Okay. When are we going to have our proposed
2024 budget from the DCA? I have the timing of when that budget is supposed to be. You asked me that as well, too. I ask you again if I can. Sure, you can ask again. The budget is due in April. It is. Yes. Were we granted an extension of time by
the the budget will be out very soon because I have the timing schedule by law. So tell me what the timing schedule is by law. Okay. supposed to be in by introduced by March 10th, adopted by April 20th.
Adopted by April 20. Is that correct, Mr. McCucken? I I don't recall the specific date, but the townships do not introduce their budgets until the state aid figures are finalized. I don't I don't believe they certainly are not available by March 10th. Um, and they will be have been available or will be shortly available.
I don't even know if we've gotten them yet. Right. Well, this is the only information I have from the DCA. Um, I look for the bid. I look for their budget and that is not online. But not only is the proposed I'm sure I know
it's coming up before the council, but the 2023 budget also is not online. And I called them up to find out why. And I was given a like, well, who are you? That's was the question I was asked. So
that is also part of the township. Is it correct bid? No, the bid is a private entity. Okay. Um, one last thing. I'm going to back you up on something. And it was about your $3.5 million
deficit in the budget that you're trying to correct. I understand that, but it seems like, you know, a lot of things are going by the wayside just to be able to save money. I I get all that, but and
I know what you're trying to do as far as what I see say, you know, the $3.5 million because the lack of the tax increases in the last year, the year before that, the year before that, I believe were subsidized by all the
revenues that we got from the American Rescue Plan funds, different CPDG grants. And when I looked at the budget and I looked at the full budget, all those all those figures were there and that was a lot a lot of money. So if that budget was supported by those
revenues then and it's gone now, I can understand what you're trying to do. I just don't mean the way you're doing it. I'm sorry that you feel that way. At the end of the day, um I think I've been clear about the animal shelter as far as why I did that. I
think I've been clear about our need for EMS and I think you know that there is no other money unless I raise taxes. So we this council and I made a promise that we were going to write this ship and that's what we're doing. That
requires tough decisions but you know everybody wants something right. Uh but but at the end of the day, we as a governing body and as a administration have to do what's best for everyone and that's what we're going to do. You're going to outsource for instance
like our engineering and if the public had I didn't outsource I didn't outsource our engineering willingly well it's it's we had in-house uh in-house left. It's very difficult to get a qualified person. It is not
difficult to get a qualified firm. the firms gobble up the engineers because they can pay better than we pay and that's just how it goes. So, uh, we have nine firms that we work with. Um, and I think it's a good idea and it saves more
money. So, I don't I don't see what the problem is. Actually, some of the biggest complaints that we have in this town were all related to engineering, right? They were building department complaints, CO complaints, all that was part of the community. All that was under the branch of the umbrella rather
of the department of community development. So, uh, residents weren't happy with that department. I mean, that's for sure. We've Justin and I have listened to complaints for several years, years and years and years. So, I think what we're doing is the right thing, Mr. Galante.
Okay, my time is up. I did have a whole statement of view that I took off the internet about the quorum of public meetings, but I'll save that for next. first of all was talking about the public, but I'm also going to bring forward the rest of the talking about the council on Mayor. Thank you.
Yes, sir. Robert Burns, 531 Li Lily Road in Tom's River. Um I know um about the I'm glad you tabled the matter about the animal control officers and and one thing
that has that we all have to be aware of animal control is being recognized in more and more communities as an extension of law enforcement and then they're specially trained and especially when you see ASPCA in Houston or Dallas,
they're trained like police officers only they deal with animals and they identify animal abuse whereas a academy is not trained to do that. They may not identify it. Um more communities are
giving animal control officers police powers. they can arrest somebody. And uh I think we should extend that to our animal control officers once they're trained to do that. And then we could be a community that's identified as
rid of or not having any animal abusers in our community. And I I think where we can't make a private entity do that. this. We can't I mean we don't hire mall cops to get in
police cars. We have actual highly paid police officers do real jobs and these guys are hard thinkers. That's we got to pay them what they're worth. And I think we should do that with animal control. Keep them here. When they when they wear
a badge and um when they go out in the community, you can see it in their face. They you can see it. They don't say it. I'm here for you. Private entity, it's just a job. And if you annoy them, they care less about
you. Somebody who wears a badge says, "I'm here for you. You hired me for you. I'm here for you and only the people in this town." That's who that's who they are. So, I can't make anybody do anything. I just
want you to be aware of that point. And I had some ideas for the signage for the u for the animal shelter. I think um it should be 4 by six feet. The bottom of it should come up to here.
Two boards. One faces flat from the bailey from the traffic intersection. Flat. The other one comes out at 60 degrees so we could tuck it behind that wall so it's not blocking people you know view
from coming out and not having a tra but at a 60deree angle somebody could come by and identify because when I went to look for the animal shelter I couldn't find it right away and that would be nice and my further suggestion is we should have a
competition with the schools two boards the kids come up with the ideas of what these things should look like and somebody you guys pick the winner. So, one school or one student will have
their idea put on one panel and another one on another one and you guys could have requirements like but the address the address is going to be on there. My little idea was have a syringe with the Ghostbuster symbol in it. You know, no
euthanasia, you know, be identified with that. That's but but it would give the kids something to be charged up about, you know. [Applause] Thank you so much. Carlos Amosur um 11ham
a lot better I got to say but we got to communicate better. We got to work together. Now, as a businessman, I like to hire local people for local jobs to keep the money in town. When you
hire outsider, that money goes outside. It's not the same. We need to create more jobs in town for the people like me to apply for. You guys are well educated. You guys have college degrees,
MBAs, and all this other stuff. Why don't we need to create those jobs that these guys are doing and maintain them here? Why? We save 200,000 and give it outside. But guess what? We spend that 200,000 extra in town. That person got
to pay rent. That person got to buy food. That person got to buy gas in town. So that money stayed in town. So at the end of the day, our economy is still in town. We need to sit down. We need to work together.
The young lady said it today. It's her first meeting here. I've been saying this every meeting. You guys keep fighting yourself. I'm just looking and it's like the street got more cold than you guys do right now. And that's not
right, guys. You know, if it's about tax money that you guys need, I could give you the money. My business will sponsor more than enough money, sir. I'm I'm a farmer, but I don't grow tomatoes. I grow cookies.
Uh the money's there, guys. The CRC is willing to give me a license for this town, and this is why I want to put my business. So, if it's about money, let me put the money in the community. Let me create a thousand jobs. But you guys got to learn, we got to
keep all this stuff in town. If we keep bringing outside into our town, the money's going outside. But so what we doing the engineer I agree that's a big firm let's utilize everyone but the local jobs we got to keep them in town
those gentlemans they go around uh I seen them get dogs especially from my neighborhood so I see everything now Saratoga this this gentleman I show him a photo five months ago I actually saved the gentleman's life because of an accident
I took all the glass out of his mouth and his eyes and brought him back to life. His wife came, hugged me, kissed me because she said while everybody was just was looking at my husband dying, you acted on it. So in there, we got to go and put a light in there. I have the
photos if you guys like to see it of how everything was after I save the gentleman's life. And it's in that light that they speaking about. So we got to act on that. But most importantly, guys, you guys got to sit down together. If not, allow me to be part of the councilman with you guys and I get you
guys straight. Uh I I don't I don't represent no politics. This is all new to me. Remember guys, I never came to these meetings to now. So everything that I'm doing is not for you guys. It's for my community. So I don't give too damn about no disrespect to you guys
about the comfort that you guys got. That's not me. I do not care. Sir, I know you son. I have a lot of respect for your son. I know who you are because I know your son personally. We did business together. I see everybody in here. So
you guys need My son's a commercial real estate broker. Well, listen up. He leased him his business. Yes. And it was a very good So nothing with the cookies.
That was the first I'm hearing about cookies. Yeah. That was for the community as well, that business. So Eric did a wonderful job. So you know, like I said, I'm learning about every single one of you guys. So we need to work a little bit more together because I know we can
put our differences and make better decisions. You have a lot of great ideas. It's just that you got to utilize them as well because if you work by yourself, whatever you present to me, I don't want to be part of it. But if you include me and I I can put my two inputs
and we can make a better idea. Guess what? Now we got the solution. And there's no way that she said, he said, he said. No, this is the best for the town. This is the best for our people. And we cannot be calling them names. We got to respect them because remember they voters. They got their difference.
You got their difference. It's a point of communication. My point of opinion and your point of opinion is difference. But we got to respect each other's name because this is looking ridiculous. I'm really about to call MTV and just make a MTV show out of you guys.
So, please let's work this out, guys. [Applause] Mike. Mike, where are we on time? Was it
Yes, sir. Yeah. Bob Travol in Messenger Street. Uh Mr. Nson, this comes back to something you and I talked about earlier in January, I believe it was. Um gentlemen made a comment before about uh the agendas and council not knowing what
they were doing. And I think you and I said that it would, you know, you would push to see if the agendas uh got brought out earlier. Well, I looked at the agenda that came online at 5:00 tonight, and it's completely different than the one that I saw when I walked in the door and picked up the uh agenda
tonight. Uh, and as a result, just out of curiosity, questions that were asked to the council, which the council should be asked to answer, should be able to answer, the score was council zero, mayor Rodrik 10. This is not a mayor's
meeting. This is a council meeting. Right. And Mr. Nson, it comes back to what we said. You guys didn't have the agenda. So, if you don't have the agenda, how can you prepare yourself? Uh, when I got up and talked before, I said something about Ortly being an inlet. And I heard the mayor say
something about, you know, you can't open up an inlet and in Ortly, I believe. And then Mr. Winn got up here and the mayor tried to talk to Mr. Winn about tide fl rise and flow. That's pretty good. Mr. Uh, Rodri, I guess,
knows more than a marine engineer or marine scientist like Mr. Wnek is. Um, I'm also very tired of hearing madeup numbers. All right. I'm tired of hearing a half hour for a response for an ambulance. Yes, I'm over the beach. I work the
beach in the summers. There are occasions when maybe you get one or two times a summer. Not usually though, where it's a long time. All right, look at the statistics. statist statistics don't say anything about a half hour. So when I read that, I went back to other
notes that I got and flyers that came out during election time about 500 units going up downtown, uh 20 more apartment buildings going up, and they were made up stories. So, we got more madeup stories coming.
Uh I don't understand also u I can't I can't fathom this. We had a $30,000 washerd dryer commercial at the animal shelter that couldn't get through the doors until somehow you got it
through the door. Did the door get bigger? The washer and dryer gets more that I can't buy all the I'm just tired of lies. Okay. Numbers being thrown out there. And here we go. Here goes the mayor, you know. Yes, you can wave and
everything over there. You No, I'm talking. I'm talking. You wanted an answer. No, I don't want an answer. I didn't ask a question. I didn't ask no qu any question. Yeah, you did. My my com my comment is this.
You would like to throw, you know, you keep threatening people here. When the mayor is challenged, have you ever noticed how he gets defensive and starts yelling and holling? Why don't you throw him out? Why don't you talk to him and tell him to be quiet? I do.
Okay. Next time, throw him out. set an example. Good evening, Phil. Thank you, Council President Coleman. Phil Brilliant, uh, 79 Holly Tree Lane. So, to start off, I want to give a big thanks to our clerk, Mr. Kruglio, for
what you did. I mean, I know how we went through the names. I know how we checked the names. I know how we counted everybody. It was not easy, but we had a crew. Okay, you had one person. So, thank you for what you did. I I'm not surprised that all
your hard work was kind of ridiculed and ripped down and made to seem like your work was not accurate, but we appreciate what you did and thank you very much for all of that. I I was I wasn't surprised tonight. I
actually had a couple bets with people. I had a feeling it was going to be repealed. I'm happy. Um I hope that you know, Chief Little and the superiors at the police department get the opportunity to manage their department. They have done a phenomenal job. I think you know when when your chief of police
is being asked by other towns throughout this country to come speak and talk about what he did here in Tom's River when he started Tom's River United and other things to bring this town together when there was unrest. He should be commended. He should not be ripped up in
the paper and he should never have his job taken away from him. So I think I hope we give him the opportunity now to what needs to be done. look at the efficiency report and do what needs to be done in this town to make sure we have strong public safety. Um, with that said, and Councilman uh, Council
President, excuse me, uh, Coleman, you know, there was an opportunity here for a shared service agreement with EMTs for a $400,000 grant that was never presented to this council to approve. It would have been $400,000 to be able to have a shared service agreement for
EMTs, but yet it never came to this council. Okay. an opportunity that would have been that money could have been saved from this town to get from the DCA. Tonight, I heard that we have EMTs. We're giving raises. False. I didn't ask the question.
No, but you made a statement that was completely inaccurate. No, it's not. Okay. All right. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let him Okay. Wait. Let don't make statements that aren't accurate if you don't want to be corrected. I just want to say come to the microphone and line. Wait a minute. Just a minute. Come on,
guys. Let him finish and then you'll have your chance. Then you'll have your chance to speak. I know, but let him finish and then you'll have your chance to speak. All right? I've been criticized about not running the meetings. I'm going to run these damn meetings one way or another.
Okay? Whether I lose friends or not and I respect people to have the floor. He's been recognized to have the floor. Maybe he's saying things that are inaccurate. Let him say them and you will have your chance to refute. Go. Thank you. Um, and you know, tonight I I'm glad to hear we're raising some
salaries for EMTs. Maybe we can we can get more people in, but that's, you know, going to throw off some of the numbers that we originally heard. I'd love to know what those numbers will be. Hopefully, we'll see in the budget where they all come out to. I think this microphone's getting lower. Um, and, uh, you know, also, um,
uh, you want to go through my thing. Do, do we know at this current time who, this is a question, who is the certified purchasing agent for Tom's River? Yes. Who is that? Cassie Caparelli. Say, sorry. Say again. Her name is Cassie Caparelli.
Thank you. Who is the director of engineering? We just appointed Morgan tonight. Well, you appointed them as the township engineer. The code 48.4 states that there's a director of engineering who is an employee in the town.
Why don't Why don't we have the our township attorney answer that question? He is he he wrote the RFP. So the uh director of law is not an employee. That's me. Uh I'm a contracted professional. This will be the same
thing for the engineer. Okay. Thank you. Um we talked a little bit tonight about the municipal parking lot. Um there were actually were three bids that were returned. Um and there's 147page document that was put out by the township for that bids to be returned.
And just to name, you know, it's just so we're clear because I think we've heard a lot about paint. Um we have crack repairs, concrete surfaces, uh fill existing joints, replace building expansion joint material,
remove and replace timber rails. That is just on the first floor. Then we have stall repairs, crack repairs, scrape clean, paint steel. So, we are painting uh drain pipes replacement structural posts that is on the upper. I can go on.
There's three po there's three bids. They range from about $380 to $500,000. It's not a $5,000 paint job. Is that all I got? I'll give you another minute, Bill. Another minute last. Um, there is a
there's a ordinance, sorry, a resolution from June 28th of 2023, which was to hire an architect for $74,000 to evaluate the facade of the golf course. It was approved that night on con consent resolution, which included
Mayor Rodrik as well as the council members who were there that night. It then put forth a RFP that went forward and then the work to be done, yes, was about the lowest bid was $389,000
to replace the facade. There was architectural block. There were some other options there. It's not just about replacing one side of siding. Just wanted to bring that to the record because I think it goes back to the fact that when we're voting on things at this council, we should really try to get
these documents. and I didn't have it last month because we got the agenda too late, but it's always at your fingertips to be able to do it. It's it's really in interesting to look at the bids. Thank you very much for the time. Councilman Coleman, Bill, [Applause]
we have an executive session, but if you can hang around, I'd like to talk to you for a minute. Okay, no problem. Thank you. Thank you, Dana Tmola, Messenger Street. Uh, first and foremost, I I wanted to thank um Mike for doing the job that we all did as well because I know what was what
went into that from a large group of people. Um, my thanks to all the residents of Tom's River who actually which there were over 5,000 signatures that we obtained. I would like to thank the residents of Tom's River for that.
um you've shown what matters most to you and it is the the safety and the well-being of the residents of our town. I also would like to make mention of the fact that every time um a lie gets brought up, somebody gets defensive. I
just urge all of you to go and watch the Rodri watch videos and see the lies and hear the lies for yourself. They're there. They're unmistakable. They're there. I also would like to let the residents of Tom River know that we will have another petition later this year to
recall the mayor. Sir, Richard Chulo, Adams Avenue here in Tom's River. Uh Justin, I wanted to thank you for taking a few minutes to speak with me in the planning office the other day. I think we talked on a topic we both agre maybe agreed on. I
subsequently emailed you, Council President Coleman, and the mayor regarding accessibility to documents before the planning board and zoning board. I further referred you to, if you can imagine, the way that Lakewood
Township is as of transparent of a municipality as I've ever seen when it comes to land use applications. Here in Tom's River, it's not easy to put together a small army of people who want to join you in a fight to stop
development in the town because getting access to that information, the application, engineers letter, uh site plans, surveys, it it's oper as time cons. It's a full-time job. What
I'm saying is that there's a a system that's utilized in Lakewood whereby all of those documents are placed into individual folders and they're all chronicled based on meeting dates. So in other words, they had a planning board meeting tonight. I'd be able to click on a folder, it would open up to all of the
applications scheduled to be heard tonight and then I could click on each of the individual folders within that folder and have all of those documents at my fingertips. I can then go to a meeting properly prepared and be one of the objectors from the public. You'd be
surprised how effective we can be if we have the tools. So, it's just my hope that you will consider at least consider some modernization of those of those uh documents. The second point that I would like to make, um,
and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the ordinance that you rescended tonight called for a maximum staffing of the Toms River Police Department at 159 men. The previous ordinance that was on the books at the time prior to that
being adopted was 162 men department. At this point, I heard what I think was a very defiant mayor saying, "I don't really care what happened with the ordinance. At the end of the day, I control this." So, my question through the chair for the mayor is, is it the
intention of the mayor to keep that staffing level at 162? Not necessarily backfill the captain's positions, but at least hire patrolman to keep the number at 162, or are you going to force that number to 159? Would you like him to
answer that, sir? What's that? Would you like him to answer that? I I would love for him to answer it. Mayor, well, as far as the ordinance, if you've read the ordinance, it sets limits on each position type. So, uh, you couldn't
add beyond what that limit would be. So, to answer your question, no, you couldn't do that. So, if you have the two captains gone, you you can't just add two additional police at the bottom unless those police were class twos. You could add class 2s
because they're not governed by the ordinance, but the ordinance would not allow you to exceed the number of patrolmen that are designated. Again, it's a number not to exceed. So 113, it doesn't say you shall have
113 officers. It says you can't exceed 113 officers. And that's because in lots of municipalities, uh, they don't hire continually. you know, they wait until they need 10 people and then they train 10 people at once. That's the way it's usually done. I know here, well, different places do
it differently. So, no, in in response to your question, and it's not about defiance, if those two captains positions do not come back, you would not be able to expand beyond 113 unless you added more class twos. Okay. Would the council President Grant
me one extra minute to ask this question as a followup since the ordinance is is now effectively dead and we're now back at the old ordinance and that ordinance calls for three captain positions which the mayor has now said he does not intend on backfilling. I guess my
question is would you consider either a new ordinance or an amendment to the existing ordinance that would allow for those two positions to be filled at the patrol level? That's something the council would consider. I don't think it I don't even think that would be legal, but we'd have to ask Mr. McGucken.
Well, the council can change the number of any position within the ordinance currently by virtue of a new ordinance. So, if they chose to do that, they could amend the ordinance to provide for additional patrolmen or sergeants or whatever they want to do. But, but I'd be I wouldn't be obligated
to fill anything. That's correct. Understood. I I I don't know anybody who sits at that deis right now or any person sitting in the chairs behind me that wouldn't acknowledge that the Tom's River Police Department is currently under manned based on every report that
that has been presented to you. I'm sorry. I guess I'll stop again if you would give some consideration to I'd like to go home tonight. You pass your time is a five-minute rule for a reason. You had an extended minute. You're remarkably respectful. You know the movement going. Are you the same
Richard Chulu that went to jail for stealing money or is it a different Richard Chulu? Okay, consider yourself consider yourself. Just wanted to clarify. Enough. Enough. I think you had your time. Okay. I think people understand what you said. I have had my time and make sure you
preserve the record of that comment. Got it. Thank you. Now I'm going to yell out of the audience break, excuse me, discretion of the council president when to extend time when stop and I did I did extend his time for one
minute. Yes. For one minute and it was past the one minute. It was up to you to make statement not. All right, sir. You're up. Kevin McCormack, 53 Cze Road. My uh issue is on being discouraged from
performing maintenance to my home by township officials. Months ago, I had to replace the vinyl privacy paneling around an existing outdoor rinse off that I have on fixed to my house. Um afterwards, a neighbor made several complaints to the town and in order to
have my privacy paneling torn down. I was issued a violation by construction and I was also told per engineering that the paneling had to be torn down because it changed the definition into a shower and this would not be permittable in a flood zone. None of this made sense to
me. I went to the state. Two DCA officials confirmed that a this work was ordinary maintenance and required no permits, no inspections, and also b the definition only changes if there is a drain for the shower, which it never had
one. and it just has the privacy panel. Um the construction department of Toms River accepted this, but the engineering wouldn't budge. We requested some sort of ordinance or statute to support their assertion and were given nothing. The previous business administrator um we
were put in touch with. He also requested something and got nothing as well. Um we were made aware at this time that the neighboring the complaining neighbor was a uh building department inspector in a neighboring town. So, at this time, we had to enlist a local
attorney for help. 3 months and $8,000 later in attorney fees, the violation was ultimately withdrawn. No changes needed to be made. No permits or inspections were required, and there was nothing to ever support the baseless assertions by Toms River
Engineering. Um, I'm glad to see that we have a new engineering firm wherever it's going to be. But also, I want to ask either this council or Mr. Salonus. Um, what could I do in the future to prevent this from happening to my family again? Cuz it's not sustainable to pay
thousands of dollars just to perform maintenance to my home. Uh, if somebody could please point me in the right direction. Scroll down to town hall. We'll we'll certainly address your problem. Okay. I'll give you my business card, too. Okay. Uh, Mr. Solange, I do have everything here if you want to see it. Uh, three
months of hard work from Tom's River Engineering. Yep. Okay. Sir, would you say that outsourcing engineering was a good idea? Alan Alan Vaughn Avenue, Tom's River. Uh, just really quick, uh, I understand the shelter has had, uh, not the best
reputation in the past, and I understand that you need to go back a couple of years to gather statistics. However, I do ask that we can use updated statistics because we all know that the shelter has been overhauled with staff
and procedures and I just hope we can look at more recent data for the shelter to make our final decision on that. Thank you. [Applause] Hi, Chris. Mr. How are you?
Not bad. Yourself? Good. I have some hope for Mr. Nverson. Thank you, sir, for what you said that you're willing to rethink the animal shelter academy is not the way to go. You can find out for yourself. Speak to the animal control people. A few others
up here. I'm hopeful. I really think Mr. had Mr. Rodri, the mayor, not pick, in my opinion, a fight with the police department on day one and then gone to animal control, I think a lot of this none of this is going on today. when we're going after the people that are helping people, that's a problem. Uh but
clearly people have agendas and I get it. But the police department is not going away. All right? He doesn't believe that supervisors are valued. He just doesn't. Now, the only person up here, actually, maybe Mr. Quinnless, you're a fireman as well. And Mr. Lamb,
police officer. The rest of you, no offense, Mr. McCucken, how would you know what the staffing of any department would be? It wouldn't be these gentlemen. It would be somebody that's actually a first responder that would know the amount of people. And the department's been on their staff for over 20 years. That's pretty clear. Mr.
Rogers speaks about boots on the ground. It's different than an EMT to a police officer. Hands down. You need more officers. I live off of 37 behind Donovan. The racing that goes on every day, every night, it's unsustainable.
And they had 12 traffic safety people, Mr. Coleman. They have now six. So you do the math. How how are things quality of life going to get better when we have less officers on the street and to you know just to beat up the people that are making money which were given this contract by some of the people sitting
on this deis it's not fair but again we're going to pick a fight with the people that are helping us if he had chosen anybody other than the police or the dogs I think a lot of this is not going on but you for whatever reason think these are people that you claim to value but you really don't value them or
you wouldn't be doing what you're and and the petition, which I guess somebody want to minimize, was a big effort, legitimately done. Thank you, sir. And we're we're not going to go away. We spoke up and we're just asking for you all to listen, whether it be animal control, whatever. I don't think it's
unreasonable. But for people to just sit up here and dismiss what's going on, it's wrong because, you know, in in everyday life, there will come consequences from people's actions. And like you, Mr. Coleman, everybody, mostly the people, there will be another election. So, if you don't listen to us,
we have the ability to vote you out. I actually would give everybody a chance up here if you would actually listen to what we're saying here. I don't need to agree with who you are or what you stand for, but I'd work with you, but we're not heading in a direction. One of the people or no, is Mr. Sakosi. He said it.
It's sad and it is. I love this town. My children go to the schools here, but I don't like where we're headed. So, maybe you, Mr. Nas and a few others can be the voice of reason try to work together because you start taking away the police everything else will fall in this town. I can assure you that sir
I think we did listen and that's why we tabled the resolution um concerning animal control. We did listen in fact I spoke I spoke to uh legal before Mr. Nson made that motion and
asked him would it be appropriate if I made the motion to table I heard that. Okay. And I did vote to table it. So obviously we did hear you. We listened and we'll take a department of I'll just finish this up and again have a good Easter. Um the
departments smaller than Tom's River probably 50% of Tom's River have three four captains. So I just feel like they're being demonized because they got to this rank because they earned it and they actually respond to calls and now we're not going to fill those positions.
There will be consequences to this. I can assure you. But going after the police is not the way to do business in Tom River. Thank you for listening. [Applause] Uh Jerry Ambrosio, Milstone Court
Council President. I just wanted to speak again about item C. Um I had previously asked the question and I just want to make sure that I understand it correctly. Um so because it says plur plurally
uh it exactly says authorizing budget appropriation reserve transfers. So, is that only specific to the monies that were already transferred for to wreck for the Easter event or would
approving C allow for any money transfers between departments at the um council or the you know administration's um uh behast. Is that just for that
specific thing or for anything? Just for that specific thing. Okay. All right, thank you very much and happy Easter to everybody. Carlos Amazar, just one last thing, Mr. President, I would like for to ask you for one thing. Anyone in here that does
name calling or any anything that doesn't have to do with our town should get some type of punishment. We cannot be attacking personal space. We are here for our town. If we start attacking personal space, let's put the gloves on.
Come on, guys. I'm 35. You guys a lot older than me. I should not be telling you guys this. So, cannot be name calling. Let's keep this professional. Thank you, Carlos. Anybody else?
Yes, ma'am. Hi. Um, my name is Virginia Winnick, 217 Asher Way. I just have a question to clarify about the YouTube channel because I can't always be here and it's nice to be able to watch it whenever it's a like if it's freely available.
Who runs the YouTube channel? Who's in charge of it? That's a question. You mean you mean our our page? The Tom's River. Yeah. That that shows the council. Who runs it? Who puts that out? Who posted to who posted to YouTube?
That's what she's asking. I am asking the answer IT people. IT guy. Mike. So you have the answer literally for everything and now it's nothing. Wait. IT guy
in the back. We we don't do the YouTube. That's what I He's the IT guy, right? When the gentleman before asked about why they're being taken off and it's not being made available easily just so you can watch it at any time during the week for the people that can't be here or can't just call to
request or operate however whatever procedure you have who is authorizing these videos to be taken down and why I don't think anybody's authorized anything to be taken down so I I I don't know.
So you're saying no one on this committee has ever that I know about you. Nobody this can be directed to the mayor because he seems to nothing seems to go to happen without his approval. So I'm asking you
why are they being taken down and what is the answer? Just so you know that last statement was totally false. What? About him giving everybody the approval. He doesn't. We don't answer to him. We answer to you. Right. Well, no, this isn't directed at
you guys because I know you don't put the you have nothing to do with the council meetings has been aware that these are being taken down. There's been repeated comments from previous meetings about not having access to these meetings on the YouTube
channel after the date has passed, the Tom's River Township where the council I'm not going to lie, right? Right. So, I'm just curious. I have no reason to go back and watch the previous meeting. So I haven't experienced that myself. So maybe we could ask the IT
guy. Maybe other people may because they can't see it on the day of or they don't have time to to do this process of trying to obtain information that it's not freely available. Well, right now it's it's streaming. There are 200 and some odd people
watching it. Not every not everybody can watch it the night of. So if you're taking it, but doesn't it just stream and stay there? It it it stays there because there's all Okay. So I'm not going to you can't pretend like you don't know what's going on.
Well, I'm not the IT guy. It doesn't matter because you talk about things that everything is going on here like you know like you know what you're talking about. So you can't say you're not the IT guy when you have talked about all these other things that you
don't personally have experience with. So if you're saying are you saying that you have nothing to do or the township is not taking down these videos so people can't I'm saying I did not take down the video and I don't know how the video came down and I don't necessarily know that a
video even came down. Perhaps it just didn't get left there. Maybe it's a setting on the channel. I don't really know. I don't really know. But but I've answered your question already. I'm done answering and I've answered it. I've answered Mr. Galante on the same question. You're going to pick shoes on what you
answer. Would you give us an opportunity to look into that and we can report to you back next week? Because I don't think he's being honest at all. Give us a chance to look into it, please. Right. I feel like the videos because there's other meetings that are still there that conveniently these videos
from a certain date this I understand. I'm saying let us take a let us take a look at it and see what we can find out. All right. Can I ask a question? So will it be just at the Can I ask you a question? Yes. Is my video still up there with the crickets? Which video?
The one is that the one you're talking about somebody took down? No. Like the Okay. So on the YouTube the Tom's River YouTube channel, the um the the streams that are from this meeting, they stay on the YouTube channel. So if
at any any time during the week, if I can't make it tonight because I have kids or whatever, I I can just click on I mean, everybody knows how YouTube works. You click on a channel, click on go into the channel, click on the video, but after I think the the 18th, the
videos just disappear. We will look into it and find out why that happened. And if it's something that somebody at the township did, we'll find out why it happened. I can tell you should be there readily available for the citizens here to watch. If if it's at all possible to find out
what happened, we will. Okay. Thank you. We will. [Applause] Okay. Seeing no other hands, I'm going to ask that we have a motion to adjourn
the public comment portion of the meeting. Motion to close public comment. Second it. All in favor? I. All right. We do have a resolution for executive session. Find it. Item 12 is a resolution of the township
council township of Tom River, Ocean County, New Jersey, authorizing an executive session to discuss confidential matters covered under NJSA 104-12B including executive session minutes review and pending litigation. I have a motion to move to executive session. I'll second I'll make a motion.
Second. A motion made by Councilman Iverson and seconded by Councilman Quinnless. Councilman Iverson. Yes. Councilman Quinn. Yes. Councilman Sakosi. Yes. Councilman Lamb. Councilman Loman. Council Vice President Otul.
Council President Coleman. Yes. Right. Now, can I shake your hand? You need a job tomorrow. You call me. I'm serious. Say your name. Okay. It should be a business card. [Music]
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Make a motion to public. All right. Can I take a motion to go back into public session? Motion made. All in favor? I take a motion to approve the executive session minutes from February 14th,
2024. All in favor? I. Now, let's take a motion to adjourn the meeting. Motion made. All in favor? I. Thank you. Thank you.