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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=4j04KlEWHZM

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Okay, I'd like to call the uh meeting of the Towns and Conservation Commission of for Wednesday, July 22nd, 2026 at 7:02. You have to have a second. Okay.

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Okay, >> Mike. These are the reasons why. Give it a minute. Even if you start at 7:02, 7:05, it's okay. Okay, that move 703 sample board. >> Okay. Well, we haven't done the roll call yet.

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>> All right, we just call the meeting to order. I'd like to roll call starting with Jimmy. >> James Dorian present. >> Sandra Wood present. >> Brian Pickerton present. [clears throat] >> Abigail Farley present. Mike Bot

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present. Okay. Uh, I'll lead us in the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation

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under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. >> [clears throat and cough] >> This meeting is being [clears throat] uh video recorded. Is anyone else recording? >> Okay.

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>> Uh chairman's addition and or deletions. I would like to move um 4.2. >> Excuse me. Do you have a physical copy of the agenda? >> Yes, right there.

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>> All right. >> Item 4.2 [clears throat] to um 3.0 4.2 >> 3.0 just to get it if the um engineers are here.

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Um we don't want that to wait too long. >> Could you repeat that? What what you want to move to? Well, um we might um expect some uh some representatives from Mass D to talk about the uh the permit application for Culver under Route 119.

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>> Oh, okay. >> Okay. >> I see. >> And uh so we can move ahead a little bit. >> Okay. And um >> Okay. >> Chair's report, I don't have anything.

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Uh, will you approve minutes? We do not have any minutes so we can move along to the agent report. >> Kobe, are we just one one set of minutes behind? >> We're behind at this point. So,

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>> well, what what are we behind with two? >> Yeah. So, you can be three to three. No, this four. >> This will make it four. >> Yeah. So, >> we're getting close. >> Okay. So, you know that. >> Oh, yeah.

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>> Okay. >> I didn't want it to be this way, but >> it is what it is. >> Everything more stuff other stuff priority. >> So, I don't know the the rules. Is it possible for you to send to us so we can pre-eread it before the meeting or do we

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have to read it at the meeting? >> You have to vote on it at the meeting. But, >> but we can get it ahead of time. >> Yes. >> Okay. by coming by the office or you can >> yeah be honest I've been by the time I

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have minutes done it's the day of the meeting so >> okay [clears throat] >> okay >> it take about half a day each >> so the long and the short of it if we get all them caught up with the minutes

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I have no problem coming a little earlier to the meaning if Kobe could send us >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> You know, I will certainly come 5 or 10 minutes early so we can get them caught up. I don't want you to get behind the eightball. You know what that is? >> Yeah. I don't want to get behind

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>> because you turn into a pumpkin, they say. [laughter] >> Okay. >> You know, we did not have any IDFs medical uh in the last two weeks. Everything else I is going to be covered in.

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>> Okay, >> good enough. >> Okay. 2.1 Z road. Um, so I need to open the hearing on this. Okay. I'd like to open the hearing. Take a motion to open the

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hearing for 0 road map uh parcel ID uh 23-4-0 uh NOI DP file number 308-0729 comma TWWB2026-00004 >> I second >> okay >> are you done reading it

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Do I should I go a little bit more? >> Okay. >> Um well, let's just uh have a roll call uh to uh open the hearing. >> I'll second to open it. >> It's been seconded.

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>> Okay. >> Seconded. Yeah. >> Abigail got it. Okay. James M. Yes. Sandra. >> Yes. >> Yes. Abigail Farley. Yes. Mike said yes. Okay.

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Is there anyone here who is going to speak on the matter? >> Are you here for Sber Road? >> I think on >> they're coming in now. My >> Okay. >> They knew it was a 7:15, so they're we're >> Oh, right, right, right.

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>> So, just >> we're we're a little bit ahead. Uh it's on the agenda for 7:15, but we're up to Sver Road now. Are you here for Sever Road as well? Okay. >> If you know you've got a meeting coming up at 7:15,

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look at the agenda to see if you can maybe pick off something briefly so that >> you do start it at the proper time because of people around. >> Right. Okay. >> No problem. >> Got it. >> No problem idea.

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Um Colby, >> do you think we could knock off the certificate of compliance for one brown >> um road in five minutes? Not >> I do, but you have a hearing right now. >> Okay,

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>> that's what I'm saying. I in the future. In the future. I should have said in the future. [clears throat] I apologize. >> That's all right. >> Just take the time to review the site plan. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. But um

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John Melo Jr. is on being here. >> I was expecting Wayne on the line for >> Where's Wayne coming from? Colobby, where is he? somewhere.

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>> Yeah, that's what I found. That's what I found. [laughter] >> Now, is everything the same from when we first saw this? When I first saw it, do you think you see the road? >> Right. Okay. >> We've already seen this and

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we accepted it, right? >> Originally, yes. Uh originally it was voted on and had approved on the city. Um it was invalidated because uh because the >> green cards >> green cards were not said the butters

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were not notified. Um and this is uh this is through the advice of the D representative to basically scrap that proceeding and to reopen it and

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go through the entire motions motions. >> Okay. Start from scratch. Well, while we're waiting, can I have a refresher on SA Road if I was here for the first vote? [clears throat] >> I don't know if you were, so probably

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good idea. >> Yeah. >> Can you describe and um because that's part of it. It's supposed to be discussed in in full agenda. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. In the future, wait for the meeting to proceed.

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your questions most likely to be answered as a proceeds meeting as Kobe said we're going to redis >> because the green cards were not received by the abutters so we have start all new

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>> so they can participate >> so you're going to we're going to start >> just like it was the first meeting so all your questions can be answered ask what I said, "I just felt bad having some weight."

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>> That's not a problem. You'll be brought up to speed. That's okay. Patience, that's all. >> You probably guessed that I haven't done this very often. [clears throat] Haven't been sitting in this chair too many times. >> Grateful to people who are willing to do it.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> But there were not people around. So we followed protocol one way or another. >> I assume there are more of brothers than just the four of you.

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>> I'm trying to recall one house. >> Okay. Okay. And your last name. You look familiar. >> Million. [clears throat] >> Gotcha. You've been in town quite a while. >> Yes. >> So I was notified as an for

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segment, but I've not been notified as for the conservation. So I don't know if that was a miss or what you did not gentleman in the back row says that >> nice to meet you.

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>> Gentleman in the back row says that he is a but didn't get noticed notified. >> All right. Um yeah, if if you don't mind waiting, we can cover that. Sure. [laughter] Don't mind me your address so I can look

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it up. 38 38 38 >> [clears throat] >> Oh, there's there's Wayne. >> Hi, Wayne. >> Where? >> Hey, folks. >> There he is. >> Where are you? >> We've opened the hearing. >> Oh, you did? Okay.

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>> Seven. >> I'm sorry. I thought we were up for 7:15, Mr. Chairman. I've got 7:13, so I'm ready to rock and roll whenever you folks are. >> Now, we've got a couple more minutes to wait. >> Okay. Okay. [clears throat] If you go 76

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better to have done here and see [clears throat] [clears throat] >> [laughter] >> That's the computer read out for the others. >> Yes. for

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a 38. The mailing address. In the past, as the clerk, what you would receive would be these green cards he's going through. [snorts] You would have a list of the names and you have the green card. You go through

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the green card, take the name, check it off, check it off, check it off. Now, all of the abutters correspondents don't come through the with a green. It comes through computer now. Right. So, I don't know if he's going to have you

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read the computer sheet, check it off with whom's here. We'll see how the process moves forward. is so bold as to her attention.

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[clears throat] >> Could you sign in please? >> All right. Should we get started? So Wayne, we can get started, but you should know that there are uh three new members of the commission who uh uh [clears throat] didn't see your

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presentation first time you presented it. So um you need to go into a little bit of detail for them. >> That's fine, Mr. Chairman. They didn't miss much. [clears throat] >> So they do sitewalk. >> Okay.

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Um, so with this being a new public hearing, um, it would seem that we're kind of starting from scratch anyways, Mr. Chair, as I, as I would understand. So, and I'm ready to go whenever you folks

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are. Um, you let me know when you'd like me to do my thing, if you wanted to read in the public meeting uh, into the record, the the advertisement and all that. Um, I understand you guys are looking at the list of abutters to confirm that everybody's been notified.

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Is that my understanding? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Now, >> yeah. And I don't I don't see it. It's uh agency. Yes.

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>> Can you just double check on the list? >> It's on the list here. >> Yeah. 38 Sver. >> 38 Sver. >> Can you see it, Michael? >> Robert. >> Yes. >> Okay.

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38 C. All right. And you did not receive correspondence. >> We did not. >> Of the meeting? >> We did not. I suggest we proceed cautiously. We already have one person that has not received a green card and the reason why we are here is because of such.

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>> Yeah. Or you can >> I didn't hear that. >> Maybe Wayne has an idea. But [clears throat] >> technically we're supposed to It is a legal legal stipulation.

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didn't need to get one else from >> how can it be on the list and and it wasn't you know 13 other pins in the open that's why we've done this >> Sandra

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>> yes >> we're in an open meeting could you if there's an emergency stated to the chairman but the phone ringing and such >> oh I'm sorry my husband has medical conditions I thought it kind of

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>> excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Is the question as to whether or not you can have the public hearing if one of the abutters is not present? >> Correct. >> My understanding uh is that you can hold a public hearing. The abutters have been notified of the How many did you have

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and how many receipts for the green cards did you receive? >> It looks like there was one that was missed. >> Okay. So, this is not um uncommon that all abutters don't show up. I have projects where only two abutters show up

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uh after they've all been uh notified. So, you can go ahead and my understanding is you can go ahead and hold the public hearing if the abuter wants to review the previous meeting. Um and I would leave it to the commission if the commission feels that they would

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want to continue. I mean again uh just based on what I hear here you know to go to proceed cautiously you know if the commission wanted to continue the public hearing after the abuter has had a chance to review uh the presentation and then weigh in at the next hearing you're

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that's at your discretion uh but we could proceed we could you know if you know typically it's not continued but I will I'll defer to your you folks so and however you want to do this um >> I think there was a communication. It wasn't attending. It was an was not

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notified. >> Yeah. Right. >> Because we weren't notified, my spouse would have been here, but arrangement. So, >> how was that? >> So, that that sometimes happens as well. And you know, as I understand from some

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of the correspondents from one of the abutters in town with with Colby is is that you know, the the notifications had gone out um and in towns and it took some five or seven days uh to be notified and that is by certified mail.

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Um that it's it's not uncommon. Um I don't know why that happens with local mail. You know, it seems like it goes to Boston and then comes back to your local town. It's ridiculous. But in any event, with that said, um if they haven't been

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notified, it may be that it is delayed in getting there. Something may have gotten conned up. You know, there's there's any reason that it may not have arrived. But again, I will defer to the commission. However, however you folks are comfortable in in moving forward,

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that's you know, I want you guys comfortable here. Well, I would put in his decision. Ask ask. >> All right. >> Is this is this possible? We go ahead and hear the presentation, have

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comments, and then um continue the hearing and not vote on anything tonight. >> Again, I think there's a miscommunication, Wayne, but the notice actually didn't go out. So, the conservation agent said one of the abundance notices was not even mailed.

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It wasn't, but it wasn't received. Oh. Oh, okay. >> My other half here, I would much rather have the formality of being an attend. >> Okay. >> I see. I see. >> Wayne,

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>> I see. >> You're coming from there. The reason why we are back at this meeting is due to the fact that the butters were not notified in the first meeting. >> That's correct. This is why we are starting this meeting over again.

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>> Already out of the hall, I have an individual from 38 CO that was not notified. >> Okay. >> So for you to say, oh no, no, I'm used to it. This happens sometime. I think we can move forward, that's not right. We won't move. But until

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>> I know, wait a second. until I hear that all the abutters have been communicated to in their cards was sent out right at the moment. 38 did not get it. It will be to the discretion of the

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chairman. If it if it moves forward, I'm a commissioner and that's all I have to say. >> May I make a comment through the chair then? >> Yes, you can. >> Thank you. So my comment was made with

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the understanding that the mailing to that particular butter had gone out. Since then, if I understand correctly, that mailing had not gone out. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. So that changes everything. That changes my the response to my comment uh

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to that point. Um and as I indicated earlier, um this is however you guys want to proceed. I leave it to the chair and to this commission on how you you folks want to proceed tonight. Should you wish to continue the public hearing,

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we open it, we continue the public hearing until that mailing goes out and that that person receives I'm totally fine with that. Totally fine with that. >> And in [clears throat] fact, where the where it hasn't gone out, Mr. chairman, if that is the case, just to avoid any

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further controversy, um I would suggest that and I I I suggest this respectfully that the public hearing be opened and continued so that this abuter can attend at the next meeting. They will have been

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notified and then in that case there is no question uh as to whether or not somebody has not been notified. And obviously this is why we're here tonight is because of what happened last night >> and we're in agreement. I think that's what we should do. Okay.

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>> We should just u continue it. Um that's the opinion a butter who was here who was not notified. >> So uh we will continue this hearing. So we need to continue. What do we do on that one?

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>> Yeah. Vote to continue >> motion. Yep. >> We need a motion. make a motion that we continue this hearing at Zero Sver Road um until next meeting. >> Correct. >> Next meeting which will be

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>> 20 August Colby >> August uh 12 August 12th continue to August 12th. >> So move Mr. Chair, [clears throat] would you like to me to read it all out? But you just stated what?

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>> Right. Is that good enough or read all the numbers again? [clears throat] >> No. >> Good enough. >> We're good. Okay. So, we have >> second on my side from James >> Roll. Yeah. >> James B. Yes. >> Sandra Wood. Yes. >> Brian Pton. Yes.

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>> Abigail Farley. Yes. >> Mike said yes. Well, sorry all came out for >> I suggest at this time you can do a hand delivery right now and that will be at least uh take care of the notification.

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>> I that was a good call. >> Yeah. And I would like to also apologize [clears throat] from the commission for the inadequacy here. I know you people have things to do and it's an inconvenience, but we appreciate and

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apologize that it did not come together this evening. I hope you can understand that. >> I'll bring some garlic in for everybody at the next meeting. [laughter] >> It always smooths it over. A little bit

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of garlic. [laughter] So just clarify >> Kobe just stated he is going to actually give you the notices as you leave now. So that will count as your notification. Am I right Colobe? >> Are you so we can go through that

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formality. Everybody knows that that's why we announced that it'll be the 12th. Same same place, same town hall, different possible time. >> Rich, who's another is not here this evening. He had sent an email saying he

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wasn't going to come. So just [clears throat] >> so maybe that's a good thing. Maybe the the meeting of the 12th he will be able to attend. So good, bad, that maybe that's just as wrong. >> So second apology to the abutters and

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also apology to Wayne. >> No problem. Totally get it. Got to do it right. We've got to do it right, folks. So I appreciate where you're coming from. >> See you next meeting. >> So thank you for everything. Look forward to hearing from you folks and seeing you folks on the 12th. >> Okay.

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>> Thank you. Have a good night. >> Yeah, you too. [clears throat] >> Thank you. Oh yeah. >> Thank you everybody. >> Thank you. >> And I will have the garlic. I'm telling you I never miss a promise. >> Looking forward to the garlic. [laughter]

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>> Can I get an overview of like what happened here to add to my >> Are you see we're here? Sber Road. >> No. >> Okay. >> Pardon? >> 80 Main Street. >> Oh, okay. Nothing. >> No, we haven't started that here. This was this was the uh SER meeting section

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on >> Got it. Got it. 80 Main Street should be coming up, >> right? Uh, [clears throat] okay. So, um, this is coming up at 7:45, so we're a little bit early. So, what I'd like to do is,

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um, uh, be I can't read your letter until 7:45, [clears throat] >> correct? >> It pertain to Main Street. >> What's that? If you did not open to a

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management yet, >> right? >> You have approximately >> 15 minutes. So now we find something else. >> There you go. >> Let's go. Let's see what we can do. >> Mr. Hard to do the certificate of >> Oh, compliance.

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>> Brown Street. >> One Brown Street. >> Beautiful. Let's get that um out of the way. >> Not that we want you out of the way. We want to get that >> out of the way. Everything works. Thank you. >> Can you put something up for us to see

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or >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> [clears throat] [clears throat] >> Okay, excuse me. Too slow. What does that say?

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Has started screenshot. >> Yeah, it seems to [clears throat] We know what's going on there. No. >> Should uh is it possible that someone in the uh command central needs to do something?

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>> No, I'm sharing right now. It's just taking a long long time to download. >> Get a couple of minutes on my screen. That's what I know. Sometimes it's just doesn't have that giddy out. [clears throat]

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Look at my iPad. Passing around pictures are still on there. [snorts] photographs of >> just photographs of >> So, we're basically getting ready to see

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>> pictures of the completed established lawn. The house is all done. Thank you for all kind of support. I appreciate everything you guys did. >> Let me bring it over to you. >> Yeah, why don't you bring it over and uh

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>> really out there wants the pictures I can make them available. >> Okay, >> maybe if people come around, we can all look at it together. >> You sent this in an email, right? >> I couldn't open those up.

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All right. So, here's the sideline with the tanks and grasses established and been mowed. All right. Look very similar. [clears throat] There's a >> lawn.

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Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. >> It's established. >> I was going to ask it looks nice. I was going to ask if it was Scott's fourth step >> right here. >> Oh, I just thought it was bare paint. [laughter] >> That's what we use.

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But what are the most important things this commissioners are looking for? Any disturbances, any leakage? >> Come on, a picture.

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>> Some of the most important things are going to be that the lawn is established, there's no chance of erosion, the house is in completion, etc., etc. Those are some of the key things you want to look for. >> Okay. >> The most important aspect of it is that

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alarm is established. We're not going to concern ourselves with erosion. Did you leave the soil control up? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was going to be the next picture. >> So from there the decision of >> Well, I will look at it. It'll be

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established. Then the blessing control materials can be removed. Yes over where the silk control is removed. So because it'll be dead underneath also. We're very

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knowledgeable customer. We like that. >> It's always to the discretion of the home, >> but we like you learn from the sounds of it. [clears throat] >> Did you bring the holy water so we can do the blessing?

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Okay. So, it's fully we're going to rely on your judgment and your judgment. >> Yeah, it's fully establishing it's ready to come out. >> Okay. >> So, would someone make a motion that

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before you do that? But as I was saying to you what Kobe just pointed out, the most important aspect, you want to see the lawn established. You want to you don't you want to see it in completion because the next step is for us to as Kobe was said then we can go to the next

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step to remove silk control and he'll go back over seed it sort it whatever you you know the routine and then everybody's it's done but you can still come and visit if you want once in a while we don't mind [laughter]

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>> again I I appreciate for this work. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, I'll make a motion that we uh issue a certificate of compliance for one Brown Road D number 308-0718. >> Second.

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>> Second. Roll call. >> James B. Yes. Sandra Ward. Yes. Brian Fingerton. Yes. Abigail Farley. Yes. Yes. Okay, >> I do have uh the certificate form there

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right here. >> I don't have the date on it because it has to get mailed out with the same date. Um so if you allow me to put the date on for tomorrow so mailing the same date on it, >> right, that makes sense. >> Okay. Do we get do you know where it is

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right off the top of your head? You know these stats better than I do. >> Cambridge. Is that how that works? >> Yeah, you can mail it too. >> Unless you registry. >> I'm just saying.

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>> I drive. >> Good for you. >> All right. Got three copies here. Never mind. I'll just send uh send uh signature forms around unless uh anyone wants to go through and fully read it.

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It's pretty short form. >> Just keep the signatures. This [clears throat] is the time to ask any questions about a COC. The uh green with the green what would they be

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called? Plates in the first image. >> Oh, those would be called risers. >> The green risers. Those are that's what we're looking for. That's what we >> Yeah, those are the caps or covers for the septic. >> Easy access to get into the septic, >> right? I just learned something new.

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>> Yeah. Wanted to know what they were. >> No. Yeah. I thank you for saying that. They ask me because I didn't know. >> It's actually a nice thing to have so you don't have to dig up your lawn. You have to have your subject system. >> Perfect. There you go. Two stainless steel screws. Your cap comes off.

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[snorts] Some people don't like to see those. They'd rather dig their lawn up 8 in down to get to the cover. >> I would prefer the cover. So now we know >> because that was the only thing that I saw in the image that wasn't a fully

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established lawn. So I want to know what they were covers never fully established. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Thank you. >> So risers are called >> Yes. Those are called risers. >> Okay. Is it's rising up from the septic tank. [clears throat] >> Yes.

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>> Yeah. I did not know that. You see them a lot more than you were saying, but they're different color like those that are in parking lots and stuff like that. >> Okay. Yes. >> Um and the silt

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>> guards. >> Silk fence. >> Silk fence. >> You have the silk fence which is the nylon. Then you have your silk either straw filled socks or straw hat straw bales with silk control. We do not like for

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them to use a cuz it will bring in invasive species and when they rot out they start to grow. >> That's why we we prefer in actually >> require Thank you. I just came

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[clears throat] up short. [laughter] >> [laughter] >> 7:40. [clears throat] Good. pick up one more thing as we >> and we're going to roll right into the next one right on time

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earlier. >> We were going to keep you all the way up until what time? Nine. >> Fair enough. I appreciate everything. [laughter] Thank you very much. Great work with everybody. Thanks again. >> Thank you. Have a good night.

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>> [clears throat] >> We have uh three minutes. Can you do uh education and conferences? Three minutes. >> I don't have any. >> Okay, we're going to knock that one off. >> Well, we could we could quickly talk about education and conferences if you

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could I take it quick for a second. >> Sure. >> My new question. Where are we with our MACC webinars and where are we with receiving our MACC handbooks? That'll come from Colby in a second because you did we did

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appropriate the money and the books are on the way. Correct. >> Correct. >> So, the three of you will have your MACC handbooks coming. >> Has any of you indulged in your webinars or signing up and going to the MACC classes?

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>> Not yet. I need to talk to you about getting me actually there. >> Well, Edie, so you I would suggest you attend the MACC class. >> Okay. >> You're going to meet a lot of new commissioners and it and to go [clears throat] there is a much better

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education for you than because you're going to listen to these instructors and they're very good. You get more out of it than sitting in front of this. Oh, >> for sure. Yeah, it's been Yeah. Well worth it. You get one of the next conferences where you get choices. You

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pick and choose what you're most interested, what you need to be most educated about. So, >> is there something I should specifically be looking to? You have eight different classes that you can pick and choose from. You could do plant life, you could

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do so horizons, you could do invasive species, you could do vernal [clears throat] pools. I mean, it's endless. And they I think they usually have a sort of a 101 for new people. So they you know go over the basics. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that's

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>> but I strongly suggest and to go to the college in Worcester is it I enjoy going there. They have a nice lunch. The school is really um got to think about the important things. [laughter] The lunch is good anyway and it's worth

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it. There's there's some phenomenal instructors. And after you get done with the MACC and you're still involved, you're really into it, there's a multitude of other places we can send you. Garden in the Woods and Framingham, Walden Woods does some outstanding

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programs in more finite conservation education. They they've got some really good stuff, you know, stabilization bank restoration, replanting bank areas and flooded. There's it's endless. It's it's just

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endless. So they can even teach you how to do all your plant life in the Latin. I suggest you don't though. >> As far as education, I I just want to remind everybody July 29th the D training. >> Yes. >> 5:30. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> You all were told that last week,

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correct? >> Next week. >> Next week. Yeah. That >> 5:30. >> And the people from the Dome very sharp. they they can answer [clears throat] whatever you throw at them, you know.

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>> Okay, it is now 5:45 7:45. So, we can um So, I guess I begin by opening the hearing. Do we have Oh, Kobe, do you have all the materials for the >> But you have everything is that has been

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received that needs to be received. Well, because it's not a hearing, right? It um it's just a you're deciding if it warrants being an amendment to the to the OC. This is not a hearing.

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>> Okay. >> Uh there's no legal notice that went out or needs to. Do you have 80 Main Street? >> 80 Main Street amendments to order. >> Okay. >> So, you want all the amendment

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information? >> Uh, no. Well, I just want to know what Okay. If we don't need >> Yes, we have. It's not a new. >> So, here's the There you go. That's the site plan for the amendment and the

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amendment request. >> Okay. Um before we read the amendment request, I would like to read um uh like to read into the record a letter

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that Colby sent to the towns and historical society after he noticed significant creep outside the scope of the original plan. >> Significant what? creep outside of the scope. That's the that's terminology

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that's in our own bylaws. >> I'm not familiar with the particular verbage of creep. I've always viewed it as something else. >> Please go forward. the a great deal of work has been done

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outside the scope the scope of the original OC >> enough so that when Kobe saw it he I believe rightfully so sent the letter to the towns and historical society.

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The document entitled amended OC plan has been received by the conservation commission. This request to amend the order of conditions DEP number 308-0705 by the towns and historical society will be considered by the conservation

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commission at its meeting on July 22nd 2026. Wetlands program policy [clears throat] 85-4 establishes the process for amending the final order of conditions. Under this policy, the issuing authority must first determine whether the

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requested changes are substantial enough to require the filing of a new notice of intent or whether they are relatively minor and may be considered as an amendment to the existing final order of condition. This preliminary

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determination does not require legal notice or notification of a butters. If the commission determines that additional permitting or an amendment to the current order of conditions is appropriate, legal notice will be issued and public hearing will be scheduled.

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Because the request involves after the fact authorization for construction changes that have already occurred, no further work shall be performed within areas regulated under the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act, including the riverfront area and the wetland buckle

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zone until the matter has been reviewed by the conservation commission and any required approvals have been obtained. Thank you, Goldie Streer. Uh, conservation agent, um, Towns and Mass.

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Um, since this is not an enforcement order, it was not to be ratified by the uh by the commission, but I do want to put it on record. So, um, and we hope that no further,

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um, work is done on the site until, uh, we have considered whether or not we want to accept this as a, uh, an amended amendment to the OC. So, >> or in other words, move forward the new

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NOI. Correct. >> Could be. >> That is the second choice. >> That's the second choice. >> Correct. Can I ask the commission as a quick question without interrupting? Sure. Did anyone of you agree know what creep meant? >> I had an idea. >> I understood.

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>> Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. >> When you make when you use a terminology, verify they know it. Okay. Verify they understand it because this person didn't even understand what you should be able to make sure they understand why we are

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here because of that. Noted. Good. >> Thanks, Mr. Chair. >> But it is it is a term that I got in our from our bylaws. >> So, um >> that doesn't mean everybody knows what it is. >> Yeah. Got it. Um

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Okay. Amending the final order. This is from Wetland Protection Act. Um Massachusetts wetland protection act. It this is sort of stated in the letter that uh Kobe had sent but I want you to just uh hear this yourself. Amending a

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final order of conditions is at the discretion of the body that issues the final order of conditions i.e. I mean uh aka the issuing authority. There is no provision in the wetland regulations that requires the issuing authority to

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consider or act upon a request to amend the final order conditions. There's no right to request the superseding order of conditions um conditions. Um hearing

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uh if a request to amend is not granted. If the issuing authority refuses to amend a final order of conditions, the only opportunity for further review is the filing of a new um notice of intent.

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So, we need to look at the original OC. We need to look at the amended U plans to see if we think that the changes are significant. If they're significant, um

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then um the alternative would be for the historical commission to file a new NOI. online. We have Sat. >> Okay. >> Hi, S. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the commission. Um, I wanted to let

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you read in the notice and the the letters that have been received before I barged in on you. So, I I am here tonight u on behalf of Franklin Partland who is also for my office. He's on vacation this week and he had previously been discussing this with members of the

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town. Um, and I'm here tonight specifically to answer the commission's questions. And if the commission would like, I do have on my screen the issued order of conditions, the previously approved plan and our current amendment. And I can give you a highle walk through

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of what was submitted and why we're here tonight. But I don't want to step on your toes or go out of procedural process here. So I'll wait for you to instruct me to do so. >> Oh, no. I think that's why we're here. We'd like to see the original plan for people who might not be as acquainted

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with it and um then see the the uh the amended plan. >> Seth, can you give me the date on the plans? So the um the order of conditions um as as you read and that's D file number

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3080705 and your commission has a date of issuance of that of February 1st, 2024 and that's specifically referring to a sewage disposal system design plan prepared by my office and that's dated

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January 11th, 2024. Um, and you you do have a a additional plan or document title that references to the the notice of intent application that was submitted at that time. [clears throat]

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>> You also have them in the second. Okay. [clears throat] >> So, I would be happy to put that original plan up if if we just want to familiarize ourselves what was approved um and and what was going to happen there. Is that a reasonable starting

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point for us? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I I saw the um share screen had a little bit of a lag with it. So, hopefully I do not suffer from the same thing. >> Oh, we got saw it on my end. Do you have it?

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>> Yes. >> No, we're good. Thanks. >> Fantastic. Okay. Okay, so 80 Main Street um towns and historical societies or the church is right here. Main Street is plan top or north and this is the approved plan with orange lines

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representing the buffer zone. So 100 foot buffer zone and then we have the 50 and locally regulated 35 ft. The previously issued order of conditions primarily encompassed placing a septic

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system or subsurface sewage disposal system. Um and that had to be in the buffer zone at that time. Um so that that was approved and that had some fill associated with it. Those are the solid lines. Um there was compensatory flood storage calculations that went along

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with this um due to some of the resource areas on the site are particularly bordering lands subject to flooding. Um, so this is the approved plan that's before you. Is it okay to switch to our amended order of conditions plan? >> Yes. >> Great.

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>> Any questions from the commissioners as to what they were looking at >> at the moment? >> And and I I'd be happy to flash back to those at at any point in this conversation this evening. >> So this is this is the amended order of conditions plan. So again, the church um

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or the historical society is right here and the primary purpose of the amendment request is that the an agreement was reached to utilize a separate septic system or subsurface sewage disposal

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system area which allowed the applicant to completely relocate that outside of the buffer zone um and outside of the condition um the commission's jurisdiction. So, so obviously a significant environmental benefit to to remove a leech field from that area.

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>> So, does everybody understand where the leech field went? >> Yes. >> These symbols were actually the test holes that were witnessed by the board of health for the purpose of citing the leech field. So, that leechfield was in

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this very specific area on the property there. Um there are some tanks associated with the building and those are now going through and across Main Street to a remote leech field now. So so that's really not part of our amendment other than that we're removing

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that. >> But the commissioners I would like for them to know that in the big picture of this the individual went proactive and he shot the line underneath 119 and brought the leech system to the other side. Correct Seth?

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>> Yes sir. That's correct. >> So, so from that from that standpoint that that's a significant improvement. Well, while they could have put a leech field in that area, um it's it's presently not there and it will not be there. Um should we be able to move

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forward with everything >> and I understand an individual town donated a parcel of his property to accommodate that s. So, so there's um part of if if we can use the word creep,

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I know that that was um something that we were working through. There's certainly been a lot of generous gestures. So, so both um the historical society and Squanook Greenway, so the the rail trail or the being established rail trail is south of us. I'm sure

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you've seen that all the time. These are both nonprofit entities. um they've been going through a lot of work over the years to reach their intended goals and in this case um the removal of the leech field allowed for um them to combine or

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have an agreement on each other's properties which allowed for an appropriate parking area that was presently lacking. And so that's incorporated in the amendment plan. So previously there was a gravel parking lot behind the church area in this area.

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There was essentially a lawn and that was utilized as overflow parking and now that is intended to provide um established and sufficient amount of parking that can be utilized by both the rail trail and the church facility at this time.

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>> As I as I talk through this, can I just ask um through the commission if there's anybody um representing the historical society or Squanico Greenways in the audience as I don't have visibility on u who's here. Yes, Karen Reposa, vice president of the

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historical society. >> And I'm Bill Ry out. I am treasurer of both, but for this particular meeting, Karen has taken on historical society and I am representing Squanico Greenways that the nonprofit building has built

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this river rail trail is hoping to extend it into West Town. Um, should I make a disclosure that I'm on the society and HDC? I don't feel as though I'm in conflict. Am I? >> No.

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I'm Jock Snith. I'm a director in the society. Well, can I ask why uh the parking lot has been moved roughly 12 feet closer to the uh rail trail than is indicated on

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that plan? >> Um on the site right now? >> Yeah. >> Is that is that your question? >> So I I I would have to measure that. So I do not have that answer for you tonight. Um so so really what what I'm here for you is we we had submitted we

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being my office had submitted a um letter to the commission that requested the amendment of the previously issued order of conditions and it had some bullet point items some of which I've already spoken about that um justified

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in our opinion um the reasons that this could be amended and I understand that uh Mr. Streeter, your agent, has has certainly issued his opinion in his July 15th letter. The historical society would like to move through this process

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as as fast as possible and I think that's a mutually beneficial proposal in that um construction does require some disturbance to areas and reaching a permanent stabilization and utilization of areas is certainly beneficial in this

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scenario. So, so I don't have a direct answer for for your question tonight, but I can certainly talk to my office and we can take those measurements and compare that to what is ultimately proposed and what what is happening at this point.

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>> Go ahead. >> Oh, I I wanted to point out too and I the reason I asked if there were members of the historical society or greenways with us is the history on this project, this property. Well, certainly the

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history on the the property is longer than any of us have been on this planet. It's it's um that's why it's historical. But the the attempts to um establish the rail trail, I've been involved with that in the background through my office for many years. The

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folks that are on this call have in-depth knowledge of everything that's gone on that will certainly um supersede what I know about it. and I wanted to let you know that they're here. I may speak out of turn on some of these highle items and I would like them to

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interrupt me and let the commission know anything that they feel is pertinent to the discussion tonight as we go through this. >> Okay. Well, when you do go to the site and take the measurements, uh well, let me ask this. Using the

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scale that's on the plans, roughly what's the distance between the edge of the parking lot as proposed and the rail trail itself? >> Um, I'm actually going to give a rough measurement on my screen

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off to the side here. I would guess in the ballpark around 15 16 feet. >> Okay. Well, when you take your measurements, you're going to discover that it's actually about 2 and 12 or 3 feet. So, the whole parking lot has been

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shifted around, I'm guessing, around 12 feet towards the um towards the the water. And in fact that brings it into the vegetative buffer um which I think is a little problematic. And the other problem that

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or concern that I have is that the small burm that was there um uh on which the two tree stumps were located has been totally removed. The tree stumps have been removed and I think that they weren't um supposed to

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be removed at this point. Um, so, uh, yeah, I'm concerned that the whole thing has been shifted. I don't know if it was a mistake or or what, but it certainly doesn't represent what's on the plan in my opinion. So, you need to

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check that out. And the other thing is that I wonder about is you know okay so the work was uh went ahead and proceeded um but um I don't know putting in the the large concrete supports for the for

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the lighting um one of which is really just a few feet from from the rail trail. Uh so if we were to accept this as presented, I would think there would need to be

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quite a bit of restoration work, removing some of the concrete um supports and restoring uh the burn. So I don't know those are things that I wonder about.

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>> So we can talk with with the applicant after this meeting. I'd like to pull the comments and figure out procedurally um how the commission would like us to proceed and make sure that's agreeable to all the parties involved. And I I would expect that the the end product um is is to have a substantial restoration

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area. And that's one of the changes that has evolved over the years as as this this project has evolved. Um you'll see on the plan before you there's specific callouts for ecological restoration and stewardship areas uh on the approved

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plan those those were essentially absent. So, so the bank of the pond um and some small pollinator areas adjacent to to help collect um storm water runoff. Um the storm motor runoff portion remains intact from the original

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plan, but that's essentially been enhanced by additional plantings and um I I don't think the applicant would be appro opposed to having mitigation plantings um between what ends up being the parking area and the rail trail itself. Typically, that would be

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something that that would be desired to separate the two areas, >> right? >> What? >> Yes. >> What I'd like to submit for you to review is the the building department review that was from January 17, 2024,

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showing that there is gravel very much closer to the rail trail than depicted here. So going by this plan that was approved for. >> Well, where do we go from here? We've

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got something that they're you're applying for an amendment which doesn't reflect what's already there. You have this that's approved. So if that is ultimately approved then

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there's we I don't see how we can accept this amended >> but it depends on the baseline that when you're what you're amending it to. So I don't know the whole history here if there were multiple

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different plans approved from different boards that didn't correlate but this is what we were >> maybe maybe you can explain and this is this is a little thought bubble that I have why did you proceed

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why did you know work proceed before the amendment was Okay. I I don't understand how that can happen. >> And Mike, there was a letter, I believe January 2026

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that Kobe sent out. Am I correct with the date about cease and like with like a no more work, don't do any stump and grinding or whatever. Um and [clears throat] >> those two stumps in question.

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>> Yeah. >> Yes. So, I did send out a letter in that time frame. I don't have an exact date. >> Was January something 2026? >> Yeah. January 15th, 2026. >> So, it shouldn't really have proceeded that far,

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>> right? So, Sandra, you're concerned about the stumps being from the tree, two trees that will cut the two stumps being removed. Is that what you're concerned about? Um,

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all I know is that what co the Kobe sent out that letter. I'm going by that letter. I'm going by now you see it, now you don't. The stumps are there. The stumps aren't there. Um, and there's a process for everything. And I just feel like the

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process hasn't been followed. >> But can you see the buying we're in? Because you already have gone by that plan. How can we possibly agree to the amended plan unless you're

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willing to move it back to where it was on on the plan? And um >> yes, to understand our quandry, I don't know what you're you're basing your assessment on versus have you looked at what was presented here to know what the

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letter was that was generated? >> Which letter are you referring to? >> The most recent letter that was initially >> from Yes. >> which was the 15. The one I just discussed was from January 15th. The one that you read at

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the beginning. Yeah. Is that Do you want the name of that? >> So, as I see it, either we go with this plan, which negates the amended plan because it doesn't conform with it, or

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we go with the amended plan in which case you would need to do a great deal of restoration. I don't I don't see how the two can be together. How can how can we possibly accept this amendment if your intention

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is to keep that location where it is? That plan doesn't show that location. >> The the location here shows the the gravel driveway much closer to the the railroad. Okay. Can I can I see that?

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>> So, does the conservation commission have a copy of that at all from Can we make a copy and enter it into >> make a copy? >> Oh, yeah. Enter it into the records. Our records

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uh will be a copy right there if you like. >> [clears throat] [cough] >> I'll have to see sort of an overlay or something. But um there are the trees

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where >> who came up with the number of 12 ft and deviation? [sighs] >> Uh I measured it roughly this is at least 10. >> Who came up? >> Was it you? Yes. >> That roughly

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you said 10. Now we're at 12. I want the exact number. >> Well the gentle Mr. uh whatever his name is Donahghue >> would be >> going to take some measurements and we'll and we'll get the the real >> figures.

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So, so if I may, the I I guess the the the primary question here is procedurally um what would the commission be okay with us process that we go through? And and I'd like to propose and and I'm certainly

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open to feedback and and listening to the commission here, but certainly an amendment for removing a leech field from a buffer zone. I think we can all agree that that that is that's an agreeable outcome in this scenario.

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>> Um without a doubt they they need to utilize the property. Um and it is a constrained property in terms of environmental cons constraints. Um I I would like the opportunity to have my

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office work with the historical society to figure out the final determination of that parking. I understand that it's under construction. Things can look different under construction and they may not represent what's finally there

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and incorporate restoration um appropriate restoration along the limits of the work area um hopefully with a goal of making this environmentally better than than what started. I mean that there are some

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invasive species as there are along most rail trails in the state and there'd be an opportunity to enhance that buffer zone in that scenario and due to the fact and I'm not um crying or crocodile tears here that the

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historical society is a nonprofit. I do believe that the amendment process is significantly less costly for them and frankly a faster process to move forward through uh for the commission here too. So if the commission deemed that we had

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to file a new notice of intent in this scenario, that's a new abutters list, new abut butter notification, um waiting for the meeting and then we go through that whole process and then even after the order of conditions is issued or voted on, the commission knows

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there's a lag there as well. So something that can be addressed quickly through the amendment process here is going to take likely several months through a new notice of intent here. And frankly, the the end product is the exact same. We're not removing the

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commission's powers or and we're not being disrespectful to your opinions by requesting an amendment here. We're just looking for an option to to cleanly move forward with the existing D file number that we have and then be sensitive to the comments that we receive through

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this process. >> Yes. Can I comment? I mean representing quite quick greenways here is is occurring on on us. We are you know our belief is that we should move forward the amended process. We were just showing you this explaining what steps

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we took in the past. This is not saying that's what we want to do. We want to go and have the water conditions be amended. In particular, some of the things in the diagram that Seth showed are a little out of date

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because Frank and I and um Schlavia who's from the inland who's doing a lot of the restoration have suggested um in that area where the parking lot ends but before the rail trail begins that we consider adding another catch basin with

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a pollinator garden in there. So that is the kind of thing we're actually looking for. Um and we would actually like trees in there too, uh planted. Uh so we are not looking to do that. We are looking to have an amended order of conditions

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and we want to negotiate that out with you in a in a fair way um that satisfies everyone and that's that's what Greenway's position. >> Well, I'll open it up to the discussion. I'll just say this final thing uh for

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now. the if you had proposed the um amendment. I agree. Uh yep. It's better to have Lee Field across the street. It's better to have, you know, whatever it is and have

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the parking lot. Okay. But the fact that work proceeded when it wasn't supposed to makes me wonder, okay, if we were to make to accept this amendment,

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you know, what is the assurance and you move and because it would be it's on the site plan, the U parking lot would be moved back where it's supposed to be according to the plan.

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Where's the assurance that you're going to do the restoration and these other things, the the burm or whatever to put put it back where the way it was when you didn't follow the rules before

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>> respectfully there there'd be there would be a new plan that um would be agreed upon as we work through this process with the commission. And I mean that's that's really the entire intent of the order of conditions. Now I fully

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acknowledge that um sometimes things happen during construction. U I'm I'm not a person that's on site but I I have been by at many sites and sometimes things change. But the intent of the order of conditions and and you guys

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before this meeting tonight looked at a certificate of compliance and and that is the end result here. I mean, this is going to have to come back to you for a certificate of compliance. And if they're not complying, by all means, that that there's going to need to be

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some adjustments. Just because we submit a certificate of compliance doesn't mean you have to say yes to it. Uh it looks like you're doing a very thorough review of those and and we we would expect the same thing on the back end. and my office when we do those um we will if we

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see something that's wrong we will tell the contractor that um this is not appropriate to submit a certificate of compliance yet you need to do xyz >> okay got it I just want to get comments from any of the other commissioners

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>> well I I do have a couple comments I I you know I think that Leechfield thing you know going across the street is a great thing and I you know a lot of good things are happening I I I appreciate that. Um, [clears throat] by the same token, Mike, what you said

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kind of resonates with me cuz we sent out a lot. All of a sudden, 22 trees were down. I don't care if they were diseased or not. >> Okay, we have to leave the trees out of it. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> I I have to >> Can I finish speaking, please? Thank you. >> You need to make sure that you're focused on what you're making comments.

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Those trees are not in the purview. Why did you bring them up? >> Okay, let me finish. Well, the two trees that was stumped and they weren't supposed to. You're referring to two stumps being removed. >> Say two stumps being removed. >> All right. Excuse me. >> Is that what you're saying? Two stumps being removed. Lisander.

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>> Thank you. I appreciate appreciate that. So, yeah, those were removed. And then I read something recently. I don't know. Was something in the the whole stuff that Colby sent something about landing turtles. Was there was there an issue of landing somewhere? >> That's not related to this.

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>> Okay. For some reason, I thought, but anyways, >> it is in priority. What's that? >> It's priority parking lot. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's my >> I missed that one. Sorry. >> And then and then like all of a sudden

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like you said all of a sudden more work was done in the parking lot. I would go for that site where I did go with Kobe and Abigail was there and Brian and all of a sudden there was more work done in the parking lot. So yeah, I'm like

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>> good. Thank you. anything. >> Um I just my own two cents to this thing is that you know as far as uh you know contaminants in the leech field being there and it being removed and put

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into a different area that's safer for mother nature then that suits me. And you know, things do happen on construction sites. Whether they're wrong or right, things do happen. And if we're not looking at

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the finished outcome of something, we can't judge a project that's not completed. That's my two cents anyway. You know, if they want to move forward so that we can get something in writing for compliance

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and then hold them to it after that, then so be it. But as right now, my main concern was getting that leech field out of there, and that's been accomplished. >> Mhm. >> That's all I have to say. >> Okay. >> Um, I mostly agree with what everyone else has been saying about the removal

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of the leech field to the side of the street. I fully happy with that work. Um, the thing I'm a little confused about, so I got to ask the question is when it comes to that map and the map we

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are being shown [snorts] up there, it seemed like it they were too different with two different maps of the same site, two different approved plans or

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>> I don't know what you looked at. [clears throat] I wasn't >> who approved this plan. >> Uh I would have to look into that, but that's from another >> the first one you looked at >> the the one that was displayed up there, the 2026 plan that we've been talking

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about that I'm familiar with and then that one which talked about the distance in the parking lot. I'm confused. Was that two is does it sound like it's two separate ones saying where the parking lot is? >> Yeah, that's that's it. So the building

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department somehow submitted this plan and I I don't know what the protocol is for that whether they they I would think they would need the approval of the some other departments or commissions but I

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don't know exactly. Well this is what I'm wondering. Yeah, I see that one. >> If we could continue the discussion, not make a decision right now, you

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Roy get together with the historical commission and Squanica Greenway or whatever and >> historical society. >> Pardon? >> The historical >> society. Historical society. I'm sorry.

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Thank you. And um and I'm quite sure that you're going to discover that this plan was used and not the plan that you want amended in putting in the uh the parking lot. So

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you're going to have to reconcile it somehow, I think, for us to approve it. >> Yeah. I'm just a little concerned about the consistency in what we're seeing. >> Does that sound reasonable? But that's reasonable to me. I I just

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want to make clear that um if the commission were to be leaning towards us submitting a new notice of intent, we want to make sure that we have the opportunity to start that as early as possible as that is a timely process. It it sounds and I don't want

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to put words in anybody's mouth, but it sounds like there is a path forward through the amendment process which would certainly allow for the exact same plan to be submitted and have these discussions um submitted at or continued at consecutive meetings instead of

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having a lag in this. So I am f I I am fine with that. I I I'd have to Oh, go ahead. I don't want the historical society to spend any more money than they have to. They should spend money on on education

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and facilities and get that whole thing up and running. So, I don't want them to spend money on a new NOI. And I'm hoping that somehow we can figure out the sort of reconcile the uh the plan with the

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concerns that some of us have with the the parking lot. Yes. >> Yes. So just you know uh you know we we we got a um we went through the whole process building the rail trail of the notice of intent getting it and we just

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we went through the whole process of getting a certificate of compliance sending it off to the registry you so I mean I am very much focused on I understand that ultimately we need a an agreed plan that you guys agree on that ultimately gets us compliance right

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>> there's no way to do that if we don't do what's in the final plan that's free. So that is what Squid Greenways represents and I believe that >> is our intent. >> It would be our intent to get a certificate in compliance. >> So

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>> Colby, what's your viewpoint here? >> Excuse me. I wanted to ask chair a question. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I'm here to speak. >> Could Well, every all three of you got a chance to speak. I thought I thought we would. But if you want to talk to Kobe, go ahead. >> No, go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm not a

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gentleman. She was Go ahead. Go ahead, Sandra. >> No, I insist. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. >> She'll see you. Yes, I do. Anyway, >> I'm close to asking, you know, for a motion for us to move forward with the

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amended order of conditions so we can get this project moving forward. I feel as though we can address parking lot to locate all these other things moving forward with the amended

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for us to go through another NOI. I don't I don't think that's in anyone's favor. I think we can resolve work forward with Seth everybody and obtain a very very good

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>> I agree. I'm just >> but if we sit here keep spinning our wheels coming up with oh these two stumps are removed they shouldn't have been I agree with that >> it's it's the fact >> we are seeing a lot of deviation >> okay correct

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>> when the scanook greenway asked for an amendment to the um OC for putting in the canoe ramp they did it before they put in the canoe ring.

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This is all after the fact. >> I understand. >> Okay. And I feel I would feel very uncomfortable. Where are we missing in the monitoring of this? >> Well, we've

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monitored and discovered that things were being done that shouldn't have been done until they were okay. So, you can make a motion if you wish. Okay. Thank you. Um, so Kobe, I was wondering what your viewpoint is in all

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this as our agent. Okay. Um for weeks and I'll start with the how the OC is the current OC is out of compliance. Um there are conditions in there that

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are not being met in the permit. Those being as well as the attachment A there are conditions there that are not being abided. um uh maintenance. There is um there's been

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unauthorized work that has been already completed without any change to the plan or um informing of information provided to the conservation commission.

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You know, it is your perview to to assess if regulations uh under the weapons protection act are being met um by this job site and there are activities there

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that you have not um assessed. They're already the work has already been done, right? Um, you know, the next thing is uh if you want to consider um

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consider amending the OC, you have to think about whether or not there are significant changes or not. The amendment process, the OC is for minor changes. Um and I don't I it is in my opinion that

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the gravel parking lot is not a minor change. Um and the significance of it is increased by moving it towards the towards the pond. Um not only does it bring it within the 35 foot no disturb

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zone but it is also in 50 foot no gun um zone. um as well as uh to foot perm that is considered a river. We have it. We have that written into

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our [sighs] >> Can I ask Seth? >> There are there's a there's a another there are many um activities here that amount to it not being um minor changes.

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Uh those being first starting with the removal of two mature trees uh the stumps, the regraing of that area of the the uh area where those trees were. um the

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excavation of soil of soil the soil profile filling of filling with grapple and then there's the leg post foundations installation [clears throat]

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now going forward I I it's my advice not to do it with a amendment amended OC that leaves you really two options Um, one you mentioned an NOI. You can you can try and do it

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with an NOI. Um, or you can work uh the other option is an enforcement, you know, um, if you were to do the NOI avenue,

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you know, I and you are looking to reclaim the area that was uh, made into a parking lot. That's a that's a tougher um that's a tougher road to go if you

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want that done because there's a um an appeal process that can slow that down dramatically. I think and you know I I would suggest the enforcement order.

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I know everyone has their their misgivings or or dislikes for the an enforcement, but if you can address a rehabilitation, excuse me,

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um a rehabilitation plan, that's not >> restoration. >> Restoration plan. Thank you. Um much more um quickly and cleanly with um enforcement you know, and you have to with that NOI

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if they if you apply work for an NOI, you would have to consider if those activities that have already taken place can meet the performance standards, excuse me, within the weapons protection act spelled out

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in 310 CMR 10.58. They're all written written there. we have to review them all. Um and if you if they could not be met um those performance standards could not be met

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within the NOI, we would have to deny it deny it not approve it which is why I suggested enforcement and I think that would actually um hasten the process. So I think that is

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the quickest and easiest way to do it. I I will suggest to sorry I've been in discussion with the DP and if they they are very reluctant to accept an amended C.

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So state the obvious. It sounds like the amended OC is not the way to go then if the PEP is reluctant. I mean what it so the enforcement order can you describe that a little bit? >> Uh yeah

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looking at it as well and I'm getting this all out of the wetlands enforcement manual. >> Okay. which I have made available. >> Well, can I ask this? Okay,

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Seth, if you could meet with um the two organizations and come up with um a plan that addresses our concerns that

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the parking lot has been moved in a location that's not on on the plan. and you could come up with um the plans for the restoration plan which would be similar to the plans that would

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be on the enforcement order. Do you think you could do that in a few weeks and have it ready for the next meeting? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, so I respect everybody's opinion. Um, I've worked through the enforcement order process uh

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frequently, a couple times a year. Um, I don't personally receive them. We're hired to to address them. My my um my two cents on this is you could issue an enforcement order and it's going to take time to issue that and it's going to say

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that we either have to come with the very plan that we're discussing right now and offering to prepare for the commission um at some date uncertain or we have to submit a new NOI. So, well, certainly I I I I feel that the

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commission has certain protections in issuing an enforcement order in an in an ability to um have additional followup. It what we're asking for is not bypassing that very process. It's essentially accelerating it. Tonight,

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you have multiple representatives of the applicant and the parties involved here. I haven't heard one of them object to say that they they don't intend to do what the commission asks here. So, your request is completely reasonable, Mr. Chair. We we would be happy to meet with

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them and put together a plan that um demonstrates not only the compliance with 310 CMR 10 Wetlands Protection Act and the appropriate provisions there, but also the restoration um and and intended final project that's being

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asked of us. Okay. So, considering all the concerns that the agent has expressed, I'll I'll level with you if if the if

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the um amendment had been submitted and we act upon it, acted upon it appropriately. I think it was a good plan. But you know my concerns. So if you can

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do what you just described, uh I would I don't know if we need to make a motion to continue this discussion or just say that we're going to continue it and depending on um what you

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present to us in a few weeks or Frank presents to us in a in a few weeks at the next meeting. uh if it seems as if it's going to address our concerns, then I I do want to avoid the NOI.

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>> All right. I I I find that agreeable. If any of the applicants on the call um don't agree with that, please let us know. But I I I see this as an olive branch. And thank you. >> Um any any comments? toward Greenways, please.

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[clears throat] >> We'll agree with the as a historical society. We're trying to be compliant. We're trying to move forward on our project here for the good of the community. Um I

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would just ask that the your side, your agents also follow process and procedure that they're supposed to. >> I've absolutely been following the process. Can you tell me where you think he hasn't followed the process?

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>> Um, I've heard there's been issues that instead of going through the greenways, you've taken initiative to go to outside resources to reach outside. >> Okay. This is this is not this is not what we're discussing right now. This is a

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>> question. >> Okay. But relevant to this situation in your opinion, has Colby done something that he shouldn't have done? >> No, I'm just saying in general moving forward. >> Okay.

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>> I would like it to be respectful that your members also follow the progress. [laughter] >> We're going to try the best we can. [clears throat] I I would I'm sorry, but I'm trying to figure out how any of us have not

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followed the process. >> Okay. >> We want to stay No, I'm sorry. We want to stay within the realm of compliance. You're absolutely right. We don't want to do enforcement. I a >> ultimately we are not a board of

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enforcement. We're a board of compliance. >> We're not really a board of enforcement. We're a board of >> compliance. It's about following the conditions of the permits idea that are um we breach

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it. And the real problem came when work continued as if we were going to automatically accept the amended conditions and that wasn't right. I don't know how I for the life of me I

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can't figure out why you did it backwards. It would have been so easy if could you do it the right way? And I don't think there would have been a problem. That's my opinion anyway. So where do we go with this? We just do we need to make

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a motion that we can um continue the discussion or we just say that we're >> I'm not saying I'm a little frustrated with this whole process at this point in time. I wanted to say something. I got in there. >> Nope. We wanted >> move forward. you're the chair, move

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forward. But I'm in disagreement. We can come to an understanding and we can move forward with this. And what I'm seeing is a great deal of unnecessary counter resistance when there are solutions available to us and now we're wasting

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more time and it's valuable time and it's very frustrating to see what's going on. I agree with what you're saying as to where you feel it shouldn't have been done. So

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I'm going to be cautious as to any more comments from myself. >> Okay. So I think we just uh continue this till u next the next meeting on the 20 on the 12th and um

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>> so we will not entertain a motion to >> if you want to make the if you want to make a motion >> no you make a motion if you wish. >> No let's stick to what we're doing here. Okay. >> Do we have to sign off on this one if it's done? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. So if things aren't done the way they're supposed to be then we don't sign off. Right. Correct. >> Okay. So, why can't we just make sure those things are fixed and move forward with this? [clears throat] Because if they can't close the book on it unless we sign off,

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that's our guarantee that things will be done correctly. Correct. >> One would hope that eventually they would uh want us to issue a certificate of compliance. Yes. But isn't that

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how we can guarantee that it will be fixed? >> Um, >> yeah. >> Well, possibly. If if fixed means move it back. See, that's as long as the plan >> No, I'm I'm saying moving forward. If we

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if we move forward, do an amendment on this stuff. Isn't the fact that we have to sign off on this our power to make sure that moving forward it gets done properly or things that need to be fixed get fixed? They made the suggestions of things that they wanted to do. Isn't

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that our guaranteed our power to sign off on this to make sure that those things get done because I know you can express the concern that who's to say if we move forward on this thing that those things will be done. So my question to you chair is if we move forward on this

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isn't our power to sign off on this our guarantee to make sure that the >> that's a valid point but there's and my concern is that things were done that shouldn't have been done and I'm I guess

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I just needed reassurance that the consultation would come up with a plan to assure me that um the restoration was going to be done the way

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we think it should be done if we were to give them the uh okay now and they would say sure we're going to restore it. Well, what if it's not restored exactly

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the way we would want it restored without any input? >> Well, isn't that Well, that's why I just asked you. But we need I I think we need to get agree to what the plan is before we say we

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agree with the amendment, but we don't know exactly what the restoration plan is yet. I think we need the restoration plan. >> So, I mean, I think what you're proposing is reasonable. let's let's

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come up with a plan that you think is is would be acceptable to you and then say okay you can amend your order conditions and this is the plan we can accept and uh then we go ahead and make sure we get to the point where we have a certificate of compliance I mean that is ultimately

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what we all want to do that's the cheapest way to do it it's our you know Squad Greenways has a has a history and a lot of this is happening on Squad Greenways land of of doing that um I think that this is a good plan that you're suggesting and we go ahead.

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>> Okay. >> So, so can I outline the process a little bit, please? >> Yeah. Can we talk about it? All right. Great. So, if first you decide if you're going to hear um their if you're going

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to honor their request to amend the OC, you're going to hear about their amendment. If not, if you don't um agree with that it fits into the amended OC, then you can either work under new NOI

352
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or the enforcement, but kicking the ball down the road, kicking the can down the road here without um voting on if whether or not you want to hear the amendment based on their suggestions that they've already

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submitted. be out of process. >> This is well, it's already way out of process because they went ahead and did it. So, um I don't know if we have a framework exactly how to deal with something like this. But to me, my

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suggestion, it makes sense to me that we can wait three weeks, I think it's three weeks, hear their restoration plan, and um then we can vote. That's unreasonable.

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>> Kobe's making your face. >> I've said my piece. I've explained it. Yeah. I don't know how else to explain it. someone actually measure going to measure the because you were kind of like doing an estimate about that the number of feet the parking lot moved

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like well also you know that that burm served the purpose and I I think just to level it off and now drainage has changed. Trees are one thing. They were gone. The

357
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the stumps are going to rot, but um there were enough changes that I think need to be um >> talking about >> replaced between the parking area and the rail trail. >> Yeah. >> The sto

358
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>> and and and 10 ft of grass or other lanterns need to be restored. I don't know the exact footage, but there is a burn there. It hasn't brightened down with grass. I've seen it with my own

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eyes when I did the last. >> How wide is the BM? >> Like I said, I don't have a measurement on it, but I'm saying it is there. >> Is this the BM you're referring to directly behind the church? >> Uh, no. The parking lot.

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>> The parking lot goes down to the rail trail and there's a couple of feet of vegetation which maybe it creates the illusion of a burn but I don't see a burn. >> In other words, you're talking right

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where the parking lot is from the direction of where the post is, the concrete post to the rail track, >> right? >> You're saying that it's basically roughly how many feet? >> Two and a half, three feet. Huh?

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Okay. What was this? >> The the marker, the pillar that comes up out of the ground, >> right? >> You're saying that's two or three feet from the rail trail? >> Well, there are three of them. Two of them are well into the um the other side

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of the uh the parking lot. There's three of them. One is very close to the railroad. And can we establish if it's >> pictures if you like? >> What's that? >> I have pictures if you like. >> There you go. That would be helpful. But

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another thing I would like to establish. >> What is it? Is it 8 ft, 10 ft, 12 ft? >> Well, this is this is where Seth is going to take some measurements and he'll present them in 3 weeks if we read that that's what we'd like to happen.

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Are we going to think of assigning a commissioner to oversee any of this to make sure things are getting done right? Because it seems like >> there's a lack of overview and

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some things have slid because they have not been getting checked and double checked on. See, it's just a couple of feet where that concrete marker is is about, I believe, roughly where the front edge

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of the parking lot on the plan on the amended plan is supposed to be. So you're telling me from that over it's supposed to be >> that granite post isn't what he's referring to.

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You're referring to the concrete post that were the light post. Correct. >> Right. I don't know why that if that concrete uh was there before. >> Yes, it was there before. >> It just hasn't been removed. railroad

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>> hasn't been removed to something >> referred as granite, not concrete. That'll confuse him quick. That's granite, right? >> That's not the concrete, >> correct? >> But you agree that this concrete >> near the rail trail.

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>> That's got to go. >> Yeah. >> What's got to go find that? >> Just the post that's right next to the rail >> in proximity to option to what sets but I would guess.

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>> Okay. So that's what you're referring to the concrete pia that is going to take the light posts. >> Right. >> Correct. That's where you're saying the two to three feet >> from. >> Now does that concrete light post represent the edge of the parking lot or

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is that just a light post? The parking lot is still, you know, is going to be where the parking lot is. Sadly, we have agreed on plan. >> Did you just say a moment ago that that concrete has to go? >> I I am not, you know, I'm can't speak.

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>> That's that's that's very encouraging because that could be part of the discussion. >> That is certainly something that we talking about. >> That's right. All right. >> But my question was, is the concrete post

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>> does that represent the edge of the parking lot? >> The most important aspect of this is the parking lot. Correct. >> Right. >> Not necessarily the oppos. >> That's the concrete, >> right? Yeah. That's the light post as

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you can see the schedule 80 out of it where they're going to have the wiring. >> But what I'm saying again, does that represent here's the concrete post is the parking lot right up against it [clears throat] here. Where is the definitive ending of

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the >> in in um uh relating to the discussion that that's almost irrelevant because it's well within the um vegetative buffer.

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Okay. >> Okay. So that's what we'll do. Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. So, it'll be on the agenda for um 812

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2026. [clears throat] >> Next meeting is the 12th of 12th of 13. >> Um 12 >> 12 I'm sorry I put a three there. That was a bad two.

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And we will revisit with Seth, >> right? Or Seth and or Frank. >> Yeah, I say Frank. >> So, Seth has just taken over for Frank on the in this just to represent this one.

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>> Well, I will I'll speak with Frank. This this is an involved discussion. So, uh you may get both of us at the next meeting just so nothing's lost to communication. I don't want to not convey something to him. Um, you guys have spent a lot of time on this tonight and I want to make sure that we get a

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plan back to you that addresses what you're asking for. >> Okay. >> All right. Let's revisit circle around. I think we've uh I think you have to attend to activities

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until the next meeting because this is a little bit >> what we have to do. >> It's not clear this process. >> So are you allowing them to put up like are you allowing them?

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>> No, they have no we into the into the uh the minutes your letter. There should be no work done until we get this resolved. >> I just >> So you have did you actually >> I've written these letters before >> but have you labeled it as a cease and

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desist? >> Submission should be making a decision. >> Okay, that's what I'm asking. Does that letter represent a cease and desist on any further work? >> You can do it right now. >> Okay, that's why I'm asking if you feel

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the letter demonstrates that do not see more work. Or would you prefer we use the verbiage of no more work if it's personally under? >> Well, I I I would prefer >> that this I I'm hoping [clears throat] that this is enough to stop the work so

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that we don't have to do an enforcement order. >> Y if we go the enforcement order route, then we have to vote on it and this just makes it a lot simpler. That's why I'm asking. So, it's defined and we all are

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on the same page. Right. >> Right. >> Other thing I'd like to go back to, um, it's very obvious we need to increase oversight on this. I'm not saying

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>> I didn't hear you. Okay. My We need to increase some oversight on this because you went out when when I saw you out there when they were doing horizontal boring. Correct. >> That's when you were pulling the measurements. Correct.

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All right. So, >> point we'll take it and we'll >> So, so where do we go with who is going to double check on stuff? Just why you >> uh because I'm very concerned that things are done correctly.

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>> Am I any different than that? >> You can you can come anytime you want and check. >> Well, I had made the volunteer in the question as to where we're going to go with better oversight. >> Well, I think that's a that is a discussion, but it's not necessarily

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for this. Now >> it's a condition of the order of conditions that [clears throat] agents and commissioners can visit the site um

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to monitor the performance. You can monitor the conditions off the >> Let me see if I understand what you just said. Yeah, I was >> any commissioner would be able to go down there at any point in time. Is that

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right? You basically >> doing reasonable hours. >> Yes. >> Okay. We've uh given this one. [laughter] Uh okay. So, that's where we're at. I don't think we need to take a a vote on

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anything. We'll just [clears throat] uh continue this discussion for three weeks. >> Thank you for your time and we'll see you then. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, S. Thank you. >> Yeah, we can.

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And that's the one you had gotten from the BI downstairs at um [clears throat] >> You see where [clears throat] the the fact that this was the work continued just makes an awkward

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situation where nobody's actually. [clears throat] All right, moving on. >> [clears throat] >> What are we >> continuation of notice of intent um NOI DP number 308-0703

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TWWB2026-0060 Brookline Road and um so this just needs to be continued. Ask if anyone's here to represent >> Oh, good idea. >> I couldn't hear you, Cole. >> Ask if there's anyone here to represent

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that property. >> Is anyone here uh to represent the uh zero Brookline Road? >> No. was there. >> I have not received any information from them or any updates

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>> meaning from the engineer on the um from Dillis and Roy. >> Correct. Or the applicant. >> Okay. So, have you received or gotten any more

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01:58:19.520 --> 01:58:36.712
correspondence from the individuals at the buildings down below? >> Thank you for the reminder. Yes, in the folder there is a heard you just correspondence from the neighbors this one [laughter]

401
01:58:38.080 --> 01:59:01.119
>> correspond. >> Yeah, I think I put into the zero line. Look at that. Okay. >> Should I read this into the record? >> Your discussion.

402
01:59:01.119 --> 01:59:18.159
>> Yeah. It's up to you. So is important to get that information to the commissioners. >> Uh Loren Sullivan to the towns and conservation commission. Dear members of the towns and conservation commission, as a buddish to the property under

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review, we are writing to express our growing concern regarding the repeated continuences and the length of time this matter has remained unresolved. From the beginning, we understood that this matter involved work occurring in or near protected wetlands, and we have

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participated in the process in good faith. However, the repeated continuences have unnecessarily prolonged this matter, delaying resolution of important issues involving work in or near protected wetlands and leaving a butters without timely

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01:59:49.280 --> 02:00:05.040
answers. We respectfully request that the commission move this matter forward a time move move matter towards a timely resolution while ensuring that all uh applicable provisions of the

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Massachusetts wetland protection act and the towns and wetland bylaws are fully addressed before any final decision is made. [clears throat] As a Butters, we recognize and appreciate the commission's responsibility to protect the town's wetland resources and to conduct a fair and transparent review.

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We respectfully ask that this matter not continue indefinitely and that it be brought to a timely conclusion. Thank you for your time, consideration, and service to the town of Townsen. respectfully submitted concern the butters David and Lorraine Sullivan Dan

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02:00:38.719 --> 02:00:55.760
Mlin Scott and Wendy McGrath Marilyn Brown Ryan and Amy Balkan and Rebecca go 2011 Brookline Street Townson Mass >> is 2011 Brookline Street that's the

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02:00:55.760 --> 02:01:13.639
condos that's their >> right >> yes >> street and all the people you just brought up are we assume M >> at the at 2011 Brookline Street. >> Very good. And that was stamped in when? >> Uh July 13.

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>> And you make a good point. So what's our what's our um what do we do about it? Can we ask ask uh Billis and Roy to push things along?

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02:01:34.400 --> 02:01:49.840
Oh, what what are the issues that are [clears throat] that are making it so difficult? Can you outline what the issues are that are making it difficult for [clears throat]

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02:01:49.840 --> 02:02:15.920
a regular NI to be considered? explain there. So you're aware of external um factors that um make that are causing the delay, right? Or >> are you referring to that it's with the

413
02:02:15.920 --> 02:02:33.440
engineering aspect with DIS and Roy or are you referring to the the Oh, we can go right back to the um comments by the the DP if you like. You can use the references there. They have

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02:02:33.440 --> 02:02:50.159
the NOI that explains what the project is. Y >> and then the DP explains what the problem is. Right. So what we're looking at is what do we have in our arsenal to bring this to

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fruition quicker? Do we call the listeneroy? Do we call the home the property owner ultimately? We were looking to you what is the mechanism to get this to proceed forward so we don't

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see this again continuation. >> Okay. Exactly. which is why I'm trying to get you to that point. Um, so you don't obviously don't like enforcement bars uh as a provision. So I suggest writing a letter

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and stating that this this is beingcome um becoming a prolonged process. We want to see an update >> to both the home I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. to both the homeowner the letter send it to the homeowner and Dillis and Roy >> the applicant

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02:03:40.480 --> 02:03:55.840
>> the applicant >> and ultimately the applicant shall be the one to prompt the engineering company or whichever so >> ultimately responsible >> correct >> they know the prompting they applied for the permit >> okay

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>> can you uh I mean can you be write the letter and be almost as succinct [clears throat] as you just expressed I mean, that was that was to the point, >> right? Doing my best.

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>> Okay. Do you um do you want me to uh help you with that process? I don't mind coming in. You want me to uh read it before we send it or you just >> I can write it. >> Okay. But the way you just expressed it,

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I think gets to the point. We got to got to move this forward. and and send his to the homeowner, to the owner, and to >> and respectfully request a response. >> Okay.

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[clears throat and laughter] Um, Mr. Chair, >> I'd like to excuse myself. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Have a good night, Jimmy. >> Okay.

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Uh, we were moving um the um mass dot District 3 engineers up to 301. Is that uh who is that? Anna >> or who else we looking at? 3.2.

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>> Uh 4.2. We're moving it to 3. What's that? 32 4 D's on >> 4.2 is now moved to 3.0 >> and we're hearing from Hannah or Diana.

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>> Diana Diana, hi. >> Hi. How are you? Yes, Hana's here from BSE as well. um she's she's participating in the permit preparation of the project and she and my my colleague Shila are both here to just kind of keep up with the details on the project um to help support everything.

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So, um, also the mass DOT district engineers couldn't be here tonight. So, I'm going to do my best to answer technical questions and unfortunately I don't have some qu you know maybe some questions might come up about uh traffic management or you know timing and I don't know that but I did just want to

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discuss the so there's basically several scenarios that we could go through for permitting and then several scenarios that they could go through for needed activities and um so it might be some mix and matching of of what is

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allowable. Kind of reflecting back to the conversation you were having about amended orders and how far those can go versus maybe administrative approval and how comfortable you are with that kind of approval um all the way through to a new notice of intent. So, um you I'll

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just start by saying I'm Diana Walden from BSC Group. I don't think I said that. Um but I am here for the mast um covert work on uh route 119 um adjacent to Edward Road. Um the tributary to the Squanakook River

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crosses under 119 and I know the commission is familiar with um the deteriorating conditions out there and it was several years ago now that um we did an after the fact notice of intent for kind of some emergency repairs they needed to do on the embankment. Um I

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believe they pulled up a few pieces of stone that had fallen into the water as well. Um so we did get the after the fact approval for that work. And so, um, they are still concerned with, um, debris clogging that that that covert,

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um, to the point that a little bit ago, uh, it was really backing up and, um, beginning, you know, to create some flooding conditions or concerns up upstream, um, for residents on Edward Road. and um they were able to remove some of the debris, get some get some

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clearance to start draining the water, but I think they're concerned about that happening again and being able to address it quickly. And they also know that, you know, there's slabs of con or slabs of granite inside the culvert that have like slipped down and might be kind

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of catching the debris, keeping it in place. um they've tried kind of pushing and and pulling the debris and also tried jetting water through and they're not fully clearing the culvert. So their their latest request is to basically

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stage themselves on the roadway um excavate down into the roadway surface to reach the top slab of the culvert and basically pull that aside, try to remove the debris that way. Um, and if the

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covert is holding well, the ideal scenario would be that they'd replace the slab, you know, clear the debris for now, replace the slab, and and continue on keeping an eye on it until we can get the replacement um, designed and permitted, which is in progress, and we are hoping to finish up those

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02:09:03.920 --> 02:09:19.920
applications this summer and then deal with the D for their 401 and the the Army Corps for the 404. Um, so that would be the ideal scenario is is working from the roadway, lifting the top off the slab, clearing the debris

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that way, and being able to replace the slab and kind of leaving it leaving it as is again for a while. Um the other the second more um the second more complicated scenario would be while they're in there feeling like the covert

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isn't going to hold much longer and to see if they could fit a 36- in HDP pipe through the covert to kind of stabilize it for a little bit longer. Um they would, if that was the case, they would

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probably have a flared um a flared end on the inlet side and they would probably build up some stone on the embankment again to stabilize that area around that head wall on the inlet side. Um they would try to keep any of that stone stabilization from actually being

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in the water but up and around the culvert. And that would be the kind of the second scenario. And then the third scenario would be they can't get that pipe into the cover. Um the work that they try to do to to get the debris out and fix things up seems to make the

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covert even worse to the point that it's really going to collapse. And uh they have then they could potentially take the pipe and create a new a new hole through the embankment and use that pipe for a diversion for the stream. And that

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would be what would be proposed in the replacement scenario as well. So once we finally do get to the replacement scenario and permit that, they are going to have to have a diversion pipe, you know, in during the construction phase. And so if they had to get to that last

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scenario, they would um put it in place, you know, the water would be diverted for the moment and and it would just stay in place until the replacement could be completed. Um, we do have a plan we could show you for where the diversion pipe would be. It's a kind of

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a pre uh, you know, pre glance at the existing or the uh, permit plans that we're we're making. Um, so we could show you where that would be. But, um, basically those are the the three scenarios of work that might happen that they really don't know what will happen till they get out there and open things

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up. And then the request would be, you know, can some would some level of that those scenarios be something that could be approved as an administrative approval? Um, is there a level of work that would require an amended order? And

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is there even a further level of work that would require a new order of conditions? And so those are kind of the two [laughter] the two scenarios running that we were asking for some advice on. And I, as I mentioned, I don't know how much of an emergency or concern they feel that this

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is where, you know, could any of that work happen um with the the commitment to do an after the fact of whatever the you know, if it's the amended or the new order of conditions um decision being made. So, there's a lot of questions there. Just kind of curious if if we

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02:12:21.360 --> 02:12:42.320
could talk through them and see if there's any advice as to the best path to follow. Yikes. [laughter] [sighs] Oh gosh. Well, the good news is that you actually came in front of us. Sometimes when things are done uh that don't need

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our authorization, we don't you don't hear about them too much. So, that's the [clears throat] good news. The bad news is that personally I have had zero experience with anything close to this. So um I'm going to [clears throat] defer Goldie. Do you have any thoughts about

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02:12:59.040 --> 02:13:13.760
this? >> Yeah, I mean my suggestion would be for the first two scenarios I think would be very comfortable with doing an administrative approval. If it gets to the the third set area over there, Diana, that's a bit

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more more I would suggest. And when you get to there, then you perhaps you would uh look at submitting a new NOI or amending the NOI that you have currently. >> Does that make sense?

453
02:13:31.119 --> 02:13:47.119
>> Yeah. And then I would just say um you know if the third scenario happened it would probably happen right at you know right in the field when they realize that neither of the first two scenarios would work. So, I guess it's almost as if the commission

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has to to be okay with the fact that if that does happen, it would probably be done and then that piece would have to be the after the fact if the other two were allowable under an administrative approval >> just because it it kind of be like a scenario happening at at the moment that would have to to be rectified kind of

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02:14:03.280 --> 02:14:18.560
thing. >> Diana, is is that a concrete cold that's under there right now? I believe the head walls are concrete, but I know there's granite involved in the internal structure of like the slabs

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on top. I'm not sure about the walls, but I know the slabs covering the top of the culvert are granite slabs. >> All right. And they [clears throat] just want to clear this. They don't want to repair it. Or is the repair basically the last

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alternative? Um the repair I think that the the the repair is going to be the replacement. You know they I don't know how much more they can repair. Um >> that's what I mean. Total replacement would be the repair.

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02:14:54.719 --> 02:15:11.119
>> Yeah. >> Cuz me personally, I drive that road every day and >> I have a concern because when you're going westbound on that road, your whole vehicle dips to the right when you go. [laughter] So I'm like, okay, uh, public safety

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kind of supersedes anything. Let, you know, I mean, >> let's not let's not try, you know, little things. Let's just take care of the problem. >> Yes. Yes. And and they definitely are working towards that. And, you know, it

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is frustrating how slowly the whole process moves. And I think that they're frustrated, too. um you know as maintenance they they could do things for maintenance but the full replacement um just kind of requires a lot of additional analysis and there's a lot of

461
02:15:43.599 --> 02:16:00.719
um [clears throat] factors out there being that you know there's overhead utility lines um that that need to shift for for the proposed work for the proposed replacement and the wider crossing. I believe there's some utility mains in the roadway and and that's actually one last thing to mention too

462
02:16:00.719 --> 02:16:17.040
um in a minute. Um and you know to replace it to make it wider as wide as possible to to better this you know stream crossing and stream openness. They don't want to make it so wide that it becomes a bridge because that's a whole other mass DOT bureaucratic [laughter]

463
02:16:17.040 --> 02:16:31.920
situation. Um but if they can keep it just under the width of what a bridge would be which I believe are going for like 9 and 1/2 ft. Um, you know, the problem is when we like kind of um dominoing into easements and right ofway

464
02:16:31.920 --> 02:16:48.719
and takings to make the larger crossing work and to do the scour protection needed, you know, just beyond the roadway layout. And so anytime Mass rightway gets involved, it becomes a much longer process. The coordination

465
02:16:48.719 --> 02:17:05.599
with utilities ends up taking a much longer time. So, it it does seem like a long time ago that we were in for the after the-act repairs and we're still, you know, going through the process to get this replaced and, you know, even even like with applications kind of like wrapping up this summer, it's still

466
02:17:05.599 --> 02:17:20.960
approvals and then finally a construction season. But I I know that they would really like to have those approvals in place for the next construction season. Um, you know, and they're very worried about this. I think this this covert's on their mind as well. And I actually live in West

467
02:17:20.960 --> 02:17:35.519
Graten, so I pass it as well. And [laughter] I see the the cones and everything out there and feel the feel the dip in the road. Um, yeah, I don't I do I definitely understand. >> Yeah, cuz it's just my personal opinion here, which doesn't really have a

468
02:17:35.519 --> 02:17:52.319
bearing on fast, but they it you know, they [clears throat] shouldn't just why kick the can down the road per se with these little things when we know it needs to be replaced. >> Yeah. Anyway, that's just my few cents. They should work on that replacement

469
02:17:52.319 --> 02:18:07.439
instead of trying to kick the can down the road and hope it lasts another season like they do with everything else in this state. [laughter] [clears throat] >> So, where do we go from here? Do you need um >> Yeah. What do you need? >> Approvals

470
02:18:07.439 --> 02:18:25.840
as uh Colby described or do we vote do we need to vote on this? >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. can decide which which uh permit you want to go with. That was the administrative approval. Um amending the

471
02:18:25.840 --> 02:18:42.525
current policy. Um you can it's up there if you want to read through it. And I don't think you were thinking about a new NOI. Is that correct or were you? We were hoping to avoid a new NOI, but I know that, you know, as you mentioned what you and D can um accept,

472
02:18:42.525 --> 02:18:58.559
[clears throat] you know, how how much can um impacts change and things like that and and um you know, the the new like the new diversion pipe kind of in a slightly different location than the existing covert may push push that a bit. Um but I know it is kind of a

473
02:18:58.559 --> 02:19:14.479
localized area. It's all the same situation. is just trying to, you know, trying to repair things until the replacement can happen. And um yeah, so I think, you know, the worst case scenario would be having to file an order of conditions just as the worst

474
02:19:14.479 --> 02:19:29.359
case scenario would be having to put uh the diversion pipe in to the embankment in in a separate location. I um it it sounds like the it needs just

475
02:19:29.359 --> 02:19:44.240
administrative approval for their go-to scenarios and I understand the fact that there may need to be an after fact if we get to that third scenario that we try and avoid because of the way that these

476
02:19:44.240 --> 02:20:02.640
things sometimes go. So I I think that administrative approval will be good. I understand the after effect. >> Can you make a motion? >> Uh, I can try. >> Yeah, go for it. >> Could I quickly just add to um from the

477
02:20:02.640 --> 02:20:18.240
engineers um I don't think that this is anything that affects necessarily the the resources, but when they're in there, they talked about installing insertion valves um for the existing water line so they can isolate the area. I'm I'm not 100% sure what that means.

478
02:20:18.240 --> 02:20:34.240
If it's just kind of a plate or something within the the body of the roadway and the culvert to um to kind of protect the water line. Um but that was another thing that they added to to the description of the work. So I did just want to mention that.

479
02:20:34.240 --> 02:20:50.080
>> Okay. Thank you. So if we have a motion and second and then we can have the discussion. >> Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Uh so I Abigail Farley make a motion [clears throat] uh for administrative approval

480
02:20:50.080 --> 02:21:06.640
on NASDA district 3 engineering and BSC group uh act we uh actively working

481
02:21:06.640 --> 02:21:22.240
uh permit application to replace the deteriorating covert under route 19 near Edward Road. >> Yeah. And I would I would add just suggestion add in um as

482
02:21:22.240 --> 02:21:39.680
administrative approval for first two that scenarios that Diana explained and beyond that >> as as described in the first two scenarios that uh Diana

483
02:21:39.680 --> 02:21:55.359
uh what's the last name? Walden >> Wald just like Walden Pond >> Diana Walton described and uh for after the fact and beyond that >> and beyond that

484
02:21:55.359 --> 02:22:10.000
>> amended rules >> amended rules. Okay. >> I'll second it discussion. >> Yeah. I'm sorry I had to step out for a minute so I missed this the scenario. So, could you just have like a little

485
02:22:10.000 --> 02:22:26.399
recap so I know? I'm sorry. >> No, no, that's fine. So, um the best case scenario uh would be they are going to do excavation from the roadway surface down into the top of the culvert, remove the slabs and hopefully remove any of the debris that's kind of

486
02:22:26.399 --> 02:22:42.560
causing some of this concern about um the covert flooding back, you know, back flooding up into the up um upstream areas. That would be best case. then they could just place that slab back on and leave it as it is a little bit longer until we can do the full replacement and permit that. Um the

487
02:22:42.560 --> 02:22:58.720
second case scenario would be if they're feeling like the covert uh the the um structure of the covert is maybe um starting to fail at that point, they could try to install a 36 in um HDP pipe

488
02:22:58.720 --> 02:23:14.560
through the length of the covert to basically kind of stabilize that opening. they'd have a flared um a flared end at the inlet and they would try to put some stone around the um around the head wall and around the slope to kind of keep that stable. And

489
02:23:14.560 --> 02:23:30.720
then the third case scenario would be if they are working on that the pipe cannot go through the covert to keep it stable. Um and they're feeling like the covert is going to basically completely block the stream like fall further and block

490
02:23:30.720 --> 02:23:47.840
the stream. Um they have we have a proposed location for when the replacement happens where they would be basically installing the pipe through the embankment in a separate location where the flow would be diverted into that diversion pipe so it could continue flowing while they work on the

491
02:23:47.840 --> 02:24:04.560
replacement of the um covert. But what they would do is put that in now and the stream would be rerouted into that culvert uh that pipe um for the length of time from now until the final placement could happen. >> I see. Thank you so much for doing the

492
02:24:04.560 --> 02:24:21.920
recap. I appreciate it. >> No problem. >> Okay, motion has been made and seconded. Um uh vote to accept the motion. Roll call starting with Samuel. Um Kobe I what was what was your input

493
02:24:21.920 --> 02:24:37.280
on that the the motion? >> Yeah I suggest I made the recommendation for the motion. >> Okay. Okay. Um Sandra Ward. Yes. >> Right. Thank you. Yes. >> Abigail Farley. Yes. Like B said. Yes.

494
02:24:37.280 --> 02:24:53.040
>> Thank you. I can certainly follow up with Kobe and send kind of a different, you know, additional description of those three scenarios and, you know, the additional technical details that the engineers had provided to me too, just so you have it in writing and and um, you know, and maybe we can get some

495
02:24:53.040 --> 02:25:09.439
answers to on timing um, anything like that from DOT. >> Yeah, that would be wonderful to have a little narrative to it. So, I'd appreciate that. >> Yes, certainly can even turn it into a letter, an email just to have kind of a a record. So, >> okay. Thank you. >> Thank you so so much. Have a great

496
02:25:09.439 --> 02:25:28.560
night. All right. >> Bye. Bye. >> Okay. Where are we? >> Uh 3.2 standard operation procedural development for trail creation maintenance fund. >> Okay.

497
02:25:28.560 --> 02:25:47.760
>> What do we need to do to that? >> I don't know. I guess being exhaust. Well, the only the only thing I I noticed on it, I mean, it all looked good. The questions that I had um on the identified organizations are Towns and

498
02:25:47.760 --> 02:26:04.240
Conservation Commission, Towns and Trail Association, and then spaces for other ones. So, so we can add more if something comes along after the fact and just vote them on. >> Yeah, I think you can be kind of fluid. >> Yeah, and maybe you should be fluid. So

499
02:26:04.240 --> 02:26:20.960
you can add or alter things as you go. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yes. >> And I don't know if people had a chance to read it, but the only thing and this is just uh maybe pickies um is that

500
02:26:20.960 --> 02:26:38.399
>> might and I stole it pretty good. So I might have >> Yeah. [laughter] Okay. Well, the only thing is that technically towns and as I understand it, we don't have the 25 foot or the 35 foot. Actually, this says 25 foot. Uh we

501
02:26:38.399 --> 02:26:53.680
have a 35 foot >> vegetative buffer. We don't technically have the no disterve zone, I think. Is that true or not? I looked through our I looked through our bylaws and it seems to be referred

502
02:26:53.680 --> 02:27:13.280
to as a vegetative buffer. Okay. >> Is that something we can continue next time to investigate that? >> I don't do we need to vote on this or just >> um >> I saw the if you want to put it into action. >> Okay.

503
02:27:13.280 --> 02:27:28.800
>> I once I tell you once once you do approve something or decide that you like the setup, I'm gonna put it on to the website. Okay. >> I remember I seeing some questions as far as insurance or some different

504
02:27:28.800 --> 02:27:46.439
questions legalities and I uh can you put that up there? It said there were some questions near the end of it I think about who the >> here I have it right here. >> Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. Um,

505
02:27:52.399 --> 02:28:07.439
>> there was some there was some questions on there about well the the town's insurance would cover the people working or something. Remember that part of it? There's a bunch of >> Yeah, you definitely want to stay away from it. So, mark it all crayon

506
02:28:07.439 --> 02:28:25.600
through it. So, I I can remove that. [clears throat] >> Okay. Yeah, like yeah, those are the question. Thank you very much. Yeah, those are like the question marks that I had those all the the uh whatifs and on there.

507
02:28:25.600 --> 02:28:44.319
So, what if what if you make those minor changes and then next time we vote on it and then you can post it. >> Okay, >> hold on. Oh, and the minor changes exit

508
02:28:44.319 --> 02:29:00.720
out the insurance stuff. Plus, we also add that we can take or remove in the future >> modify. >> Okay. We reserve the right to modify it. Okay. >> Modify the trail operation or operating manual. >> That way, as we move forward, new things

509
02:29:00.720 --> 02:29:14.960
arise, we can [clears throat] either take it away or add to it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not meant to be my my >> Well, you know how anything goes. as a standard and then there's certain issues that require special attention.

510
02:29:14.960 --> 02:29:31.120
>> Yeah. Yeah. All right. Oh, good. >> That'd be good. >> Thank you. >> Um, board of health wants to have a work session or talk about 61 Edward Road. >> What's the deal with 61 Edwards Road?

511
02:29:31.120 --> 02:29:47.920
>> Oh, the cleanup. So 61 Edward code there's a letter that they wrote to the that the board wrote to the property owner. Um it's been ongoing for a few years that the owner has um lots of

512
02:29:47.920 --> 02:30:04.800
debris outside of their house and it does make its way into the waterway there >> Edwards. What they're looking for is someone to from the conservation commission to talk to or a full on joint meeting. Um but um

513
02:30:04.800 --> 02:30:22.720
Carl and I suggested just you know one person meet up with another board of health member and kind of uh try and come up with a plan. We can bring the information back to each board mission.

514
02:30:22.720 --> 02:30:37.439
Does that make sense? >> And this will be a plan to how to get this person to clean it up. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anybody want to take on that?

515
02:30:37.439 --> 02:30:52.000
>> I'm just trying to get a little better view of what we're talking about. >> I don't know if I'm experienced enough yet. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> And there is what? a waterway, a wet land next to them,

516
02:30:52.000 --> 02:31:07.920
>> right? Right upstream from the cover that we were just talking about. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I notic that because it did say that the covert was near Edward Grove. So, clearly there is a water

517
02:31:07.920 --> 02:32:15.840
name. Oh yes, >> you can see everything from the 119. I >> Yeah, well aware of that. Yeah, they have a number of items that they leave on the lower parcel of their property

518
02:32:15.840 --> 02:32:34.319
and when the swamp rises, it consumes it all. So, if they could just pick up their items, that would be nice. >> Well, I guess that's the point. We need a strategy to get them to pick up their items. Well, I mean, what's our what's

519
02:32:34.319 --> 02:32:51.840
our >> what's [clears throat] our standard ops to to to go there and say hi um from the conservation commission? Do you think you could pick up some of your items so we don't have to? in the past. It's that ugly word that all I can hear was the guns enforcement issue and it's a long

520
02:32:51.840 --> 02:33:08.319
slog out battle which the previous conservation agents had been addressing um and they have a history of documents being sent to the property owner and then starting to to find the

521
02:33:08.319 --> 02:33:24.399
property owner. They never I'm not I'm not sure what the fallout was ultimately. >> Um if they did collect funds from them I think they did finally do some sort of

522
02:33:24.399 --> 02:33:40.000
cleanup which um satisfied the commission at the time. >> Yeah there. So I I've seen it and it's been quite extensive at sometimes and then of course I wasn't part of the commission back then but one day I just

523
02:33:40.000 --> 02:33:56.560
happened to look like oh someone cleaned up. >> I I've noticed it well you know you know the season where we don't have a lot of leaves on the trees. you could see right through. And um yeah, there have been points where I'm like, "Oh my god, why didn't someone just clean up their

524
02:33:56.560 --> 02:34:12.720
yard?" And then all of a sudden, poof and then this is the first I'm hearing of it being on this board. So, >> well, you seem to have the intimate knowledge of this and very you're very observant. [laughter] >> I [clears throat] try to be in

525
02:34:12.720 --> 02:34:28.880
everything I do. Would you be willing to um uh what's her name for help? Um, >> Carla. >> Carla. >> Yeah. >> Talk to Carla about talking to someone on the board of health about >> Yeah, she's >> okay.

526
02:34:28.880 --> 02:34:43.359
>> Charge that. >> Yeah, I believe. >> And if you if you uh if it comes to the point of like having to going to contact the property owner, his name's Mike. He's really pleasant guy, but he he's

527
02:34:43.359 --> 02:34:58.479
got some problems. So, >> we all have problems. We're here to work, you know, help each other through it. So, >> yeah. >> Did I hear at one of our previous meetings that like a while ago some boy the boy scout troop helped or something?

528
02:34:58.479 --> 02:35:15.680
>> That's always Jim Deian's suggestion. >> Okay. I just remember that. >> I don't think that's, >> you know, we don't we don't need to be rattlesnakes. We just >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Just something I heard thrown out there. I didn't know. >> Sometimes people are going through some things that we just don't know about.

529
02:35:15.680 --> 02:35:32.399
You kind of have to approach everybody. >> Right. >> Okay. All right. So, you'd be willing to talk to >> Yeah, I'll talk to Carla. >> Great. Okay. Thank you. >> Uh oh. >> Oh, I thought your hand was up. >> Okay. Um

530
02:35:32.399 --> 02:35:55.680
4.3 Mass Department of Ed environmental protection is proposing to amend the wetlands protection regulations at 310 CMR10-0000 and the 401 water quality certification

531
02:35:55.680 --> 02:36:19.200
regulations at 314 CMR 9.00 is that it >> I can send out the link if you want to make uh I think they taking recommendations for >> uh doesn't say just propose zoom amendment.

532
02:36:19.200 --> 02:36:38.560
>> Oh MAC I think sent a uh an email out talking about that and I didn't have a chance to open >> I'll just I'll just forward that email. Okay. Okay. Um I guess we're down to Sue Lizio's

533
02:36:38.560 --> 02:36:56.000
letter. We're going to read that into the um record. Into the record. All right. So, although I've gone back and forth about whether to write and send this, recent events have convinced me that I should.

534
02:36:56.000 --> 02:37:12.160
Not because I want to add an opinion to any debate, but because I'm worried about something much bigger than any one issue in town. As someone who has served our town in different capacities over the years, I know that public service

535
02:37:12.160 --> 02:37:28.080
isn't always easy. There will always be disagreements. That's part of the job. That's part of democracy. But I also know that every generation depends on the next one being willing to step forward at some point. [clears throat]

536
02:37:28.080 --> 02:37:44.800
Many who have served our town for years are ready, some long overdue, to pass the torch. We aren't looking to walk away from our community, but we are hoping to pass the torch. What worries many of us is that there don't seem to

537
02:37:44.800 --> 02:38:01.280
be enough people willing to [clears throat] willing to take it. My hope is that regardless of where we each stand on the issues currently facing our town, we can all take a minute to think about something much

538
02:38:01.280 --> 02:38:18.960
bigger. We all say we want more people to volunteer, serve on committees, and run for office. Yet, I can't help but wonder what message we're sending to those very people and to the next generation of civic leaders that we uh

539
02:38:18.960 --> 02:38:34.720
will someday be asked to guide our town. Have we stopped to think about the example we're setting? Every lawsuit, every public dispute, every personal attack, every unnecessary conflict, and every action that pulls us

540
02:38:34.720 --> 02:38:51.200
farther apart has a cost. Some of those costs show up in dollars, others don't. They show up in lost trust, increased division, people feeling pressured to take sides, volunteer burnout, and good

541
02:38:51.200 --> 02:39:06.560
people and in good people quietly deciding no thanks. I don't want to be part of that. Our town depends on residents who are willing to step forward and serve. They shouldn't have to wonder whether serving

542
02:39:06.560 --> 02:39:23.920
their community means spending it their time helping solve problems or becoming caught in conflict. With another important local election coming up, we need a thoughtful, capable people to consider putting their names

543
02:39:23.920 --> 02:39:41.040
forward. Not to mention the long list of committees needing volunteers and elected boards without full membership. If the environment surrounding our town government causes people to decide simply isn't worth it, then don't all of

544
02:39:41.040 --> 02:39:58.720
us lose. This isn't about asking anyone to give up their beliefs or legal right. It isn't about uh taking sides. It's about remembering that every action has consequences beyond the issue of the day. The behaviors we exhibit and the

545
02:39:58.720 --> 02:40:16.560
decisions we make today will influence whether others will be willing to serve tomorrow. If this concerns you too, I hope you'll respectfully make your thoughts known. Let those who represent us uh know that

546
02:40:16.560 --> 02:40:33.600
Let those who represent us know that you value civility, cooperation, and responsible stewardship of our town's time and resources. send them a letter or an email to remind them that they were elected to serve all

547
02:40:33.600 --> 02:40:49.439
the residents of town and that preserving public confidence is part of that responsibility. And while and while we're at it, maybe there are a few new faces you can encourage to get involved. None of us

548
02:40:49.439 --> 02:41:07.120
have to agree on every issue. That's not democracy works. And it's certain and it's certainly not how town meetings work. But I hope we can all agree on this. The community is stronger with disagreements and handled with respect.

549
02:41:07.120 --> 02:41:23.520
When public service remains something that people are proud to do and when we never lose sight of the fact that we all want what's best for our town as a whole. And if it moves you to do so,

550
02:41:23.520 --> 02:41:44.240
feel free to copy and paste to share these thoughts with your friends. Regards, Sue was up. Okay. I think [clears throat] it's good words and uh we need to respect each other and

551
02:41:44.240 --> 02:41:58.960
how not only towns get divisive but countries do the world does. So we all need to work on that. Thank you for reading that.

552
02:41:58.960 --> 02:42:14.319
Okay, I think we have done it. uh items to discuss next meeting. >> Yeah. Uh two bar hill has a NOI that's just been uh submitted. Um

553
02:42:14.319 --> 02:42:31.120
and that NOI may have to be pushed from the 12th for the next meeting as I got a brief message saying that they may not be but potentially it could be on the bank. >> Okay. And for

554
02:42:31.120 --> 02:42:48.399
>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh, next meeting Apr 2026. A motion to adjourn. Uh, Abigail Farley. Motion to adjourn. Meeting at 9:45. >> Second it. >> Uh, roll call.

555
02:42:48.399 --> 02:43:04.760
>> Sandra Ward. Yes. >> Yes. Abigail Farley. Yes. >> Said yes. Okay. Thank you very much. Or is everybody happy?