WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=K2uf31fzOFI

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: K2uf31fzOFI):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Called to Order: Roll Call and Pledge
- 00:01:12: Adjustments to Agenda and Agent's Report: Harbor Trees
- 00:04:21: Administrative Approvals: Squook RDA Discussion
- 00:05:53: Certificate of Compliance: 18 Main Street Starbucks
- 00:10:59: Issuing Compliance Order; 2 Brookline Road Continuation
- 00:15:27: Brookline Road Sidewalk Site Walk; Schedule Discussion
- 00:18:26: Continue Brookline Road; Joint Meeting with Trail Alliance
- 00:20:26: Towns and Trail Alliance: Expanding Trail System Discussion
- 00:26:57: Motorized Transportation; TTA Mission and Revenue Streams
- 00:31:11: IMBA Grants; Surveying Conservation Properties; Kingdom Trails
- 00:36:16: Signage and Guided Walks; Discuss Commission Partnerships
- 00:41:07: Existing Trail Length; Mapping on All Trails App
- 00:45:57: Town Property; Kiosk Signage; Local Experts and Safety
- 00:50:14: Stewardship Model; Trail Creation Act; Best Practices
- 00:53:13: Open House Proposal; Requests from the Conservation
- 00:57:48: Support to Towns and Trail Alliance, Parks Commission Support
- 01:01:50: Lunenberg Snow Riders: Partnership Opportunities Discussion
- 01:04:36: Community Preservation; Rail Trail Connections and Grooming
- 01:09:13: Supporting the Greenway; Discussion of Rail Trail Restrictions
- 01:14:54: Snowmobile Access; Build Relationships; Communication
- 01:17:39: Hunting Considerations and Recreation; Committee Concerns
- 01:21:43: Adjourn TTA; Voluntary Response; Cemetery & Parks Meeting
- 01:26:55: Removal of Adam's Dam, Pro's Con's, and History
- 01:32:00: Under Maintenance and Portfolio; Maintaining Our Waterways
- 01:36:58: Adamant About Preserving; A Focus on Natural Swimming Areas
- 01:41:18: Discussion about Waterways and Grant Money
- 01:45:36: West Townsen; Study Related to Dam Removal
- 01:49:06: Debris Blockage; Problems With Rivers
- 01:50:58: Native Fish Coalition Contact; River Health Evaluation
- 01:53:56: Ownership of Adams Dam Question; Assessors Info
- 01:57:32: History of Adams Dam; Repair Work
- 02:00:08: Email Update Request; Study Title
- 02:03:22: The Pro Con Study of Adam's Dam; Dam on Squan Cook River
- 02:05:34: Website from Deer; River should be Cleaned
- 02:07:41: Review and Discuss Opportunity
- 02:11:19: Natural River Watershed, more information is needed
- 02:14:10: Flood Plane review; Flood water to be mitigated
- 02:17:24: Lions club and emotion; Practical need for recreational areas
- 02:21:15: It's all about Balance
- 02:24:45: We're working together now
- 02:25:34: Praising our members; Time capsule
- 02:29:12: Getting Help from the State
- 02:31:16: Looking for help now
- 02:33:14: Working is hard, but it is enjoyable
- 02:34:37: Ethics Conference; Thank You Lori, Next Meeting


Part: 1

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I'm going to call to order the Towns and Conservation Commission meeting for Wednesday, April 8th at 7:05 p.m. I have a roll call vote starting with Mike. >> Mike Pard, present. >> James Dean, present. >> James Gates, present.

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>> Sandra Lord, present. I'm sorry. >> Um, Mike, do you mind leading us in pledge of allegiance, please? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under

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God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> This meeting is being recorded. Is anyone else recording? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Um chairman additions and or deletions

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>> with that. Yes. That means yes. Who is recording? >> Sneaking. She doesn't have to identify herself. >> We know who it is. Um uh chairman's additions there was

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supposed to be okay it's combined 2.3 um and we are going to move 1.6 Six meeting minutes to the end of the meeting >> after 5.1. >> It's on the back side.

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>> Yeah. Unless sooner that's >> um chair report. Um, anything I have will really be

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covered under Kobe's report. Um, 1.7 agent reports. Okay. Uh, yep. Still this week we did a walk through at the harbor. Jim and Sandra joined me to meet with

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Townsen Historical Society to look at trees that were removed uh this past January without a permit. Uh we sized them all the stumps. Uh and

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>> we will go over that in >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But u they um they need we need to get them on the next agenda. It's kind of getting

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too far out, but they need to get on the next agenda because they're not placed on this agenda because they're supposed to submit a restoration plan. I don't know if they have that ready yet, but we got to keep that fire and put them on

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agenda. So you'll communicate to them that they're going to need a restoration plan for >> we'll discuss it at the next meeting. >> All right. So that's not on the docket. >> Not tonight, but it's in the being

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worked on. >> What? >> It's being worked on. It's It's not been put to the wayside. >> I know. I was at the meeting. >> I know. At least it's publicly. >> Mhm. I'm good. sign to god RF sign offs. Um

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I miss I don't think there's any other particular items. So >> can you do administrative approval for squook? >> I have not done that yet. Um no doing the minutes I it was on the minutes I was doing today.

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Um, and you guys, um, you know, collaboratively decided it was RDA. Um, who I just wanted to, um, I guess bring it up again, just make sure that that would be the consensus of everyone.

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>> So, you're going to have to so it's clear. You you'd have to re bring up everything again. Yeah, >> answer the applicant for the the resident. >> They submitted the RDA.

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>> The guy wanted to level it out of his yard. Very minimal, but as a commission, we had talked about it. >> All right. All right. We're all done with this. Anything else?

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You want to go grab your notebook? >> What do we have coming up soon? >> I know it seemed >> it seemed quiet. So, >> yeah, I don't have anything additional. Oh, you know, I met with the the folks that

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are already here, so that will come up later. >> Okay. >> Yeah. three 18 Main Street uh certificate of compliance DP number 308-0717 applicant Alicia Escani uh representing

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Key Point Partners has uh submitted a request for COC approximately 7:50 p.m. Um, >> do you have any pictures, Colby? >> Yeah, you know, I I was fighting with uh

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I didn't have a folder up today or yesterday because I've been fighting with uh one drive and sharepoint for some reason. I can't share anything. >> Well, our email was compar systems. Val, didn't we have issues last

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week? Um, it should be all good. >> Oh, I know, but I know there's a trickle down. >> Mostly affected police and fire. It shouldn't affect much, but it's Yeah, there happens. >> I don't know what the complication is,

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but I couldn't share documents. Um, so that's why you didn't receive um anything. What would have been that makes sense? >> Volunteer response for the application for the certificate of compliance for 18

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Main Street. >> Okay. So, you did a site visit though. Is there >> in there was a grub folder if you need, but you know there was no activity

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beyond the pavement that's already in place. Um they had silence up around the Starbucks um parking lot already uh to and mainly it was there to catch

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trash. Um they did reach the the top of the bank there. Um is it grown in? >> Yeah, it's all grown in. Um trash is in there already. Um the the Yeah, it's uh

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>> progress. Yeah, I it definitely established and nothing has really taken off and grown yet. So, it hasn't been mowed this year, but the top of the bank already established sign. >> Okay,

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>> that's the extent of what our jurisdiction was there. >> And they do kept it fairly clean because they put that fencing up which kept a lot of debris from blowing in. It could have been a lot worse. >> Sitting right here request for the COC,

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but you know, >> you did a site inspection. You saw there was vegetation. Like Jimmy, it sounded like was there at some point. You been there, Sandra. Starbucks. >> Yeah. >> Um, no, not for a site visit. I just went there to drink coffee. >> Okay. Well, coffee. Did you notice?

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>> I took a peek. I took a peek. Everything's looking like it's growing in, establishing good. I didn't see a lot of debris that had blown in. If they was I think they went in and cleaned it already. They did a good job. >> Well, I had my first cup of coffee today and and and I was with my grandson

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Xavier and five years old and he noticed how neat everything was and how it looked like it had been there for quite some time, not just a month. >> A lot of money in there. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> It looked nice. I think it did. >> Yeah. >> I mean, without having done a sidewalk

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on it, just it was very very appealing. It looks nice. >> Besides it looking nice. >> I I just got poked. >> I'm sorry. >> Don't Don't be sorry. >> No, when I did the drive-thru, you could see like was saying it was established.

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I didn't see a lot of junk. It was good, you know, and the coffee was good, too. What What are you going to do? Right. There you go, Jimmy. I want to keep that. So Kobe, your recommendation is to issue completed

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conditions. Um like to make a motion to issue a completed order conditions um creating Main Street D number 3080717 um for Key Point Partners. Um is there a

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second? >> Second. Roll call vote starting with Mike. >> Mike F says yes. >> James Dorian, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> Sandra Lord, yes. >> Thank you. >> Jesus Christ, I hate these.

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>> You need help? >> No. Mind your own business. Old man trying to open a fruit juicy and I got him in trouble. Whatever happened >> 2.2 2 um 0 Brookline Road TWWB 2026-00006.

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Can you see your notes, please? Yeah. Is there D number? >> No. >> Grab it. >> Like the D. >> No, but it didn't have the actual number. I just want to update it. >> All right. for

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um okay so 0 row TWWB 2026-006 uh DP file number 308-0730 um continuation of a notice of intent from Kevin Smith uh for installation of a new septic system on parcel property parcel 38-14-1

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Um, Dillson Roy has asked to continue that. Um, handle has also uh requested that the conservation make another site visit with them.

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Um, so if you could schedule or set that up with the commission. Um, and Jack or Frank cuz I talked to Jack earlier and we and I talked to Frank

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uh this morning. >> You did? >> I sent out email as a storm. >> Did you talk? >> Right. Um, which isn't awesome. >> Okay. and you know um so

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yeah um >> be more elaborate or >> our stuff. >> No no I don't I think we should just continue it. >> Yes. >> We had a marathon last meeting.

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>> Yeah. >> Just be more specific. What are we What sidewalk are we going to? Zero Brookline. Is this a repeat of what? >> Uh the engineer the engineers have requested it. >> Roy. >> Yes. >> Is it going to be Jack?

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>> Jack or Frank? >> Okay. Frank didn't say I didn't hear anything when we were down at But >> Well, >> that doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Okay. >> I just want to ask so there has been a sitewalk already. >> There was. >> Okay. Now he wants they want another

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one. Yes. Okay. >> Just for the commission. the engineers. >> Okay. >> So, um Jack said that he could even do Saturday mornings. Um I can be available Saturday morning and Kobe, I know you have other

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support for kids. I don't need >> I I'll try to find a poll everyone see what um times are most >> the only day that's not good for me is Wednesday morning so and I know in the

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past you scheduled them on Wednesday mornings but that's sort of a all commit every Wednesday morning commitment that I have >> yeah I'd like to get James there too so I think the weekend is going to a weekend day is going to have to >> Okay.

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>> So, you're tending to go towards Saturday now? >> Saturday be easier for you. >> It's It's an easy walk. It's not >> It's an easy I was just going to ask that. I'm going to have any trouble. So, yeah, I'd be happy. >> We got Pat through the woods. We can help you. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's easy, right?

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>> I think Mike went to that one. We helped Pat. >> I don't mind doing a little walking if it's a lot of uneven walk. you will assist. >> Okay. I'd be I was just going to say I was going to be happy to as long as it's that >> it's no different than we were at the historical societ.

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>> Oh, okay. >> Straightforward, easy. No worries. Sorry. >> Okay, that's good. That's good. >> Saturday would be >> Saturday. I mean I mean if someone wants it other than Saturday or or Wednesday if I don't you're saying a Wednesday doesn't work for you. So do you is there any other day of the week that someone

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wants it? I mean >> it doesn't matter. >> Saturday morning or Sunday in the morning works. the next Saturday. Why won't >> Okay. Oh, Saturday does work for me. >> I just can't do it Friday. Friday morning. >> You guys will have a chance to read the comments there. Anyhow,

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>> was that the one in the that you uh emailed to us? >> I think I'd like to see those and question because it's I mean I don't know um the people who were here I guess would have been a hearing or something. the people

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the audience the public se >> yes the butterers do was there something set up for them >> no uh we have been as >> Oh really okay >> so mostly liability >> oh okay >> so

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>> now are you referring >> Oh thank you >> it was declined >> I didn't know that >> the engineers advised highly advis or yeah they said don't do that because of the in the char liability.

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>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. That that that's good to know. I was just wondering. Okay. Oops. >> So, if Saturday morning works. >> Oh, yeah. That works for me. >> Let's pull the trigger and make it Saturday morning. Works for you. Works for you. Works for you.

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>> Oh, yeah. 11 difficult for you, but I can tell 9:00 and if you come, you can come. You can >> be 9. Going to be a little later. >> I'm so I'm so sorry. like 10:30, 11 o'clock is be a lot easier. >> I have responsibilities. I gota

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>> 10 I Let me see. I'll give Jack a couple. >> Okay. But yeah, 9:00 is just that's that's tough. What's going on in my life? >> So, um, someone make a motion to continue. That's the motion.

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>> I motion that we continue um zero book iron row TWWB 2026-6 to our next meeting which would be the date of what what do you want? >> Uh I I would say

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I have a copy of this >> you've emailed us. >> Yeah, but I don't have access to my email yet. >> Yes. Oh, sorry. >> Yes, we'll get you a copy. >> Okay. >> Do we want to do it for the next meeting? >> Want to throw out a date, Kobe? >> Okay. >> So, I can finish the motion.

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>> Well, the next meeting is 426. >> Is that you say approximately 426 if you want? >> Yeah. 42. >> Yeah, that's what it was. 22, right? >> It's the next meeting. Right now would

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be our next Ming. So it would be 4226. >> So this is incorrect on this agenda. >> Says 26. >> Oh jeez. >> You're right. 426. >> We'll change that to 22 for you Kobe. >> Okay.

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>> Very shy. >> Okay. So 42226. I second the motion. >> Like said, yes. >> James Duran, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> Sander Lord. Yes. Um

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2.3 Towns and Trail Alliance. Um, so I just want to note that we do have a joint meeting at 8:00. Um, I believe did Robert be. Um, did you find out if they were we were doing that like they confirmed?

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>> Yeah, they have it on their agenda. >> You just want to make sure. Um, so we have to try to be respectful to the 8:00 time frame. It goes over. Goes over. >> No, no. We're We're You guys are next. But before you guys get up there, I don't want you to

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>> seems like >> No, you were. >> Yeah. Okay. You've not watched our meetings. >> You're referring to a joint meeting like we did Monday. We're planning and you had >> uh I was >> Veronica and Emily Fine there.

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>> Yes. So >> that's a joint meeting. In other words, >> and it's to discuss the Adam Stam stuff, which should be short and sweet. >> Good. I just want to make sure that we paid attention to the time. We ran to almost 10:00 last time,

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>> which I know I was getting moody, huh? >> Not as bad as Select Ford. He now has to start earlier just to finish. Um, so, uh, Towns and Trail Alliance, the TTA, is a nonprofit 501c3

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organization with the purpose of, uh, maintaining and organizing use of towns and public trails. Um, Patrick, I I don't want to butcher your last name. Uh, what is it? >> Kanek. >> Kanek. >> Um, and Ron Spears will discuss

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expanding the trail system on the conservation commission's properties for outdoor recreation, specifically meeting house park. Justin Bears of uh the Lunberg Snow Riders will join the conversation to discuss successes and possibilities that their club have

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experienced and also offer. Um you guys want to come to the front of the class and some slides if you want to share it if you want. That's fine. Justin, you could sit at the table.

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Val and Val is also here. >> I'm I'm not here in my special for >> you were emailed. You were part of emails. >> It's a personal passion of mine and I will bring it a positive thing that I want to work with. So

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>> Oh yeah, all the time. This is something that Ronnie and I have discussed for years. Justin and I have been discussing for two years now. I think um >> now this is the group right in >> a mountain biking trail.

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>> So that was so originally I came in front of conservation for meeting house park originally. Yep. Um and so finally I got I got some people I roped I roped some people in. Um, yeah, Patrick is uh Patrick has been um working hard on

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doing all the red tape stuff that I'm not very good at. >> I'm not very good at it either, but we got it done. So we are here just um we want to represent we feel like a missed opportunity in town of of we just have a vast uh you know great array of um land

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that is uh being underutilized and we feel like we might be able to maintain help out um get more people on board to realize uh the the outdoor opportunity that we have in town. So, yep.

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>> Cool. So, Pek I know I know Ron I know you and I know but I don't know everybody else. So, I moved here in 22. Uh, and we moved to Towns and because when we you drove through town, you saw the woods and all the outdoor recreation opportunity. Yeah. This is >> 2022.

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>> 202. Yeah. >> Oh, you're a senior. >> I'm a new 22. >> That's like been here a long time. >> Four years. trying to make feel invited. >> He's invited. He's invited. I'm going

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here, too. And these guys, they make you feel welcome. >> Okay, that's So, I I grew up in New Hampshire, so I'm like relatively local, but new to Massachusetts. So, we moved here because we really liked the area. That's it's nice. Our house up to the towns of State Forest, so it was nice

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having that in the backyard. I met Ron maybe like weeks after months maybe. I don't know. We met very early. Yep. And so he showed me around the state forest. We started talking like you know how do we how do we build trails out here in the state forest? How do we do it on the

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land on town properties? There's no real like organization to um to steward all that stuff. So um I took it upon myself working with Ron and Steve Levery uh to form this 501c3. to our nonprofit, Town

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Trails Alliance. Uh we just got our IRS determination letter, so we're legitimate uh for federal tax purposes. If you provide us a donation, you can get a tax card off on your receipts. Um so now we're all paperwork is done. So our intent is to represent all the user

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groups, humanpowered, motor powered, um horse powered, even water trails. what we talked about a couple weeks ago with Colby the water trail could be the Swanuk River Pond. I think that may be one of the I don't know how many other water navigable areas we have in in

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Townsen but we have Benton Pond Harbor Monica is there is there anything else but a water trail is a thing right so you can have a water trail and so we want to represent those user groups um so u we want to start small and so we

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started talking with Colby it's there's a lot of red tape associated working with downstate forest u I'm sure Justin can can attest to Um, so we want to start small, um, with townowned properties and, uh, nothing

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super high impact, but high visibility, minimal to low cost or or no cost, just human volunteers. Uh, I understand we have signage, but it hasn't been installed yet. So Ron suggested Meeting House Park. Um, I've been out there a couple times. You've been out there way

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more than a couple times. >> Yeah. um >> with I was going to say so recently Bean House Park had a a little logging operation I think for some diseased trees. Um so you know something that we were thinking of and something so I've been in town 41 years um and you know

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just have stomped around probably every parcel of forest in town that I can possibly be in. And um what I hear from a lot of people is a lot of people are just like well yeah I know something's there but like it always seems overgrown and I don't know where to go and I'm not sure what to do. And so, you know, we

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just, you know, we're just thinking that we could there's some lowhanging fruit that we could capitalize on. You know, Media House Park is a uh there it's called the Eminem trail goes down and and goes beyond um down the field over um along 119 and there's a outer loop

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that goes up to the top of uh Walls um Highland Street almost at Walls Hill. So just there's a lot there that we could capitalize on and and you know maybe show people in town that like hey this is a great loop for for walking, hiking, whatever whatever it may be. Um so we were thinking low hanging fruit to start

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with you know clearing the slash that's there uh reconnecting the trail that kind of got um you know um messed up when they were doing the logging process and then hopefully you know try to figure out some signage and just get more people in town aware that there's there's existing parcels here that that

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are are usable. Um, I know a lot of people won't venture out on their own and and explore because you know they're afraid of getting lost. So, we're just we're hoping that we can um capitalize on on a missing group that um you know there's a lot to do here in town. So, >> I like to circle back quickly to what

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you had said when you mentioned motorized. >> I'm going to want to hear what your thoughts are on our walking trails with anything motorized. Are you you're thinking dirt bikes, fourwheelers? >> No. anytime there. It's good points

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>> for this because but we all know it's a very sensitive >> so we know that's a different that's a different talk. Yeah, we're starting with humanpowered transportation, you know, hiking. We're we're trying to I guess figure out um

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how to how to approach that. Justin might be able to speak on some of that. Yeah, it it I I definitely touch on the snowmobiles, dirt bikes, and four-wheelers are really all different in the environmental impacts. >> Yes. >> And we like for example, I know that the

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the state forest is you're allowed to ride snowmobiles in the state forest if there's enough snow coverage. Um >> it turns it into a completely different scenario. Absolutely. Your impact with a snowmobile cannot even be equated to what a dirt bike will do, a four-wheeler, or a a utility like our

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fourwheelers and six wheelers. >> Absolutely. >> So, but you know, hearing what your ideas are on, >> you know, totally totally understand. I mean, there there is always a responsible way to to develop multiple news trails.

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There's a way to do it. >> Not suggesting we do it now. equal to that. There's always a time and a place for everything, >> right? >> Certain things there is not a place for that. There will there could never be a place for it to fit in. >> I don't think we would ever suggest putting dirt bikes or side by side and

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meeting house. >> No, that's No, we're strictly that's walking human power and that's out to see if we're on the same page. >> Yes, we are absolutely the same. >> Again, I didn't snowmobiles though are

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different. totally different scenario. >> So >> I think further down the road I I think you know one of the one of the things that is um you know is evident here in town is we have different governing bodies. So we have towns and conservation land, we have DCR and then

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we also have mass wildlife. Right? So mass wildlife, fish and game conservation are probably two properties that will never have human power trans I mean um motorized transportation. Right? So, one of the things that, you know, maybe the future down the road, maybe

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the DCR is willing to work with, not not sure. That that is all kind of up in the air, but this is um more or less for for properties like Mini House Park is strictly humanpowered um passive recreation. >> Thank you. >> Keep going with the you know, why you

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guys form the the impacts the the model that you're um you're trying to build this on um because it's they're it's a proven model. >> Yeah. So, um, what what we created here, Towns and Trails Alliance, is not something new. Anyone ever been to

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Kingdom Trails in Vermont? >> A great place to ride a bike or go hiking, uh, walk around. That town is completely centered around outdoor recreation. So, I served on the planning board for a bit of time, uh, and and probably new towns and residents, but I

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I hear a lot about, hey, this town is cash trapped. We don't have enough revenue sources. it's always taxes on property taxes and that's basically it. That's where we get our cash, our tax revenue. Um, and so by using the natural resources we have and leveraging that to

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our to our advantage, you can bring in people who who spend money and it can benefit the town. Um, mountain bikes are not not cheap. You can spend two three $4,000 on a mountain bike, no problem. Um, hikers, you know, you get hungry,

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you got to eat, right? So people come to town, they use the trails. Uh and Pearl Hill Park or Pearl Hill State Park and Willbrook and Towns and State Forest, you can easily spend 10, 15, 20 miles plus out there. Um at the end of a 20-mi day biking. Me personally, I'm smoked. I

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want to eat. I probably don't even want to drive home. You know, I want to stay somewhere overnight. And so there's an opportunity there. So focusing on town properties um first is is our focus because It's just me, Ron, and and Steve

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at the moment, but we want to establish committees to be more organized and worked with um you know, raising revenue, eventually getting an IMBA trail accelerator grant. Um next year, we won't apply for that. But in order to be competitive for those sorts of grants, you need to to show success. You

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need to have a plan. You got to be organized. You got to have a nonprofit. >> I've got some input. Um I think the Eagle Scouts, you guys probably know more than I do. three. Uh um Eagle Scouts have done trail projects before, >> so I'm thinking they would be a good

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resource to help with the trails. Um I'm on the con um community preservation committee, newly form committee and we're setting up guidelines in the proposal process and we we're just getting into that. It sounds like that would be on the rep for that. Um it

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sounds like that would be something that you'd want to apply for. >> Yeah. Is that >> uh community preservation committee >> CPA? >> Yeah, CPA. Yeah, >> because your group is based on recreation. >> Yes. >> Yeah, you can apply for grants for projects,

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>> right? Cool. >> We're just setting it up now. We It's in the It's bare bones. We just had our first couple of meetings. >> But yeah. >> Excellent. >> So, I need to get you know, whenever there's new jargon, I need to get caught up on it. So, what's an IBA trail?

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IMBA. >> Oh. Uh I >> it's International Mountain Bike Association. So it's it's a group that is formed that represents um you know sustainable trail building. Um they have a lot of different grants out. There's people that will work with you to like come up with you know they'll look at at

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land that you have in town and come up with ideas and you know that's all down the road. But, you know, one of the great things about Townsen that we have is that we have a lot of connectivity um via our our outdoor parcels, which is kind of cool. You can, you know, go from meeting house park over to the rail

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trail if you wanted to. And, you know, so we're just trying to figure out how we can capitalize on connecting different parts of town with with outdoor out, you know, outdoor spaces. So, >> IMBA, International Mount Biking Association, is a is a worldwide

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organization. They're they're renowned. Uh, I mean they have a Bible, a trail building Bible that's probably 400 pages thick and it tells you it goes over substrates and grading and how to bench um bench cut a mountain a trail on a hill. I mean, there's it's it's really

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the Bible for trail building um for private organizations that that build trails for for profit and for nonprofit trail organizations. So, uh, if we build any trails, um, or maintain or, uh, improve existing trails, it's it's going

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to be according to that IBA standard >> and you say that they come and >> so there's there's opportunity. So, >> talking about the accelerator grant. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, yeah. So, I've done a little bit of research on that. We're definitely not ready to apply for a trail acceler accelerator grant today.

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That uh window was in this March, I think. So, we just we missed it. We wouldn't have been we would not have been competitive here um this time around. But, um you got to show progress. You've been trying to do something. You got organized. You you have town support.

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Um I think the meeting house project is is a great baby step. You can probably do one or two more other, you know, smaller projects. >> But, uh those trail accelerator grants, they, you know, they bring in professionals. They'll bring in surveyors and um people who do this regularly with

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>> so they'll help you lay it out with a with a to minimize impact. >> They can do that if if those are your goals. So they want to understand what are your goals when it comes to building a trail network. Um do you want it to be multi-use? They they'll identify

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opportunities where you can connect them. If you want, as an example, do you want dirt bikes over here? you want them segregated from everybody else because those are dirt bikes and you don't want them next to the horses. Makes complete sense. You know, they'll they'll work with that. They'll work whatever your your town goals are. So, um it's a

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matching grant. So, if you put in $10,000, they'll put in a proposal for $20,000 and they will match the $10,000 difference. But you get a product. You get a a professional document with uh professionals who do this for a living and they they give you a product. What's

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what's nice about that is we're just we're just people and I don't do this for a living. I think it's fun, but it's not my job. So, they give you a product and you can present that. They'll present it to the town. You can present it to the town. It's a it's, you know, professional product you can use to

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apply for um, you know, another grant for the next phase or the town wants to fund it through a bond or however the the town wants to approach it. But it comes with cost estimates and you know mileage of trails, signage, all kinds of a lot of really good information. I can I can dig up some uh example products

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that they built for other towns if that would be helpful. >> Yeah, I think you know with with that being said um you know that's obviously going going way down the road. I think today what we're we're coming here to just kind of represent ourselves um kind of give an idea of what we'd like to do.

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Start small, start making our parcels more aware, maybe get some signage out, need some guided walks, some guided hikes maybe for um for residents that that aren't aware. >> I know Emmy Hawk has joined us and Val's here. Um but one of the things as a

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commission that we've started to do um utilizing grants is um start to uh survey our conservation patrol properties um and bound them and um

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you know uh submit a registered uh plan of land um which will also allow us to start to manage our forest with um you know logging and selective cuts that will generate revenue but also keep

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our forest healthy. Um and I think working with a group like yours and working in tandem so that as properties are delineated and bounds are marked um you know that you know we don't want to

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go onto someone else's property and have problems. People get weird with that stuff. Um, and I think it would work out really well. >> So, it's one thing that Kingdom Trails has done really well. Most of those trails are built on private land. >> Where are these trails located?

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>> Um, Vermont. Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah. Um, they have a pretty decent web page with good maps. uh when you go up there um it's it's free to use their trail system, but they they want you to go to the bike shop where um >> a little bit more robust in those areas

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and >> they've been around for a little bit >> in area and and size of area and allowing certain things opposed to what we would probably have available here, you know. So, >> I mean, we're not going to be the next

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king trails overnight, that's for sure. took untapped >> 30 years probably to get to where they are today. >> There's a lot of there's a lot of woods in downtown. >> So I do like they have that public private partnership there where you get permission from land owner in the back

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there 100 acres you connect two parcels and towns and >> and then I mean longterm you connect property. >> So that's an example. Another example is actually the New Hampshire and their snowmobile trail network in Maine. I actually Vermont,

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but it's private land ownership and that the partnership that's there um that keep it moving. Um >> I actually just I came from a meeting in Ashby that was from 4 to 6 uh tonight.

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Monachus uh Regional Trail Alliance. >> Justin, just uh introduce yourself formally. Yeah, I'm Justin Bear. I'm representing uh Sam and the Bloomberg Snow Riders. So, I just came from a meeting in Ashb um where this Monucus

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Alliance, they were presenting, they're trying to do the same thing. They're trying to connect these network of passage trails from town to town to town. Um so, all these small towns can get a little more passive recreation in the community and and get some things going on. Um,

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>> Ashb has it's not as easy in Ashb because we have it's so caught up with fish and wild fish and game conservation land. Um, we don't in private property. We don't really have these big land parcels like Town does. Um, I think these guys are doing a really good job

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at trying to bring some more recreational opportunities. I think pound for pound we we exceed what Ashp has as far as what property is owned by fish and bane DCR and on and on it goes. I mean the I

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think we have a lot more state property. >> Yeah. >> Than after you even >> Absolutely. >> post. I mean we're >> Yeah. >> It takes you to parts of town that you didn't realize were there. >> Like they were saying the

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>> King's Cross is a great example of that. >> That's the Vermont area. >> No Cross Towns. West Townsen. >> Oh, West Towns be there. So yeah, I think like they were they were saying, you know, DCR um one of my clubs, we've been trying to work with DCR for the past year and

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we've got absolutely nowhere with them. It's very hard to get through any of their red tape or get anybody that's going to be accountable for anything or to even help you move forward. Um so I think them proposing to start small in um the meeting park area, it's it's a

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really good idea and I've hunted in that area before and it's like I said, it's very underutilized and it's a gorgeous area. There's some nice trails there. So, >> what's the total length of the trail that you're proposing? >> There's So, to be honest, you not 100%

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sure. There's an existing trail there. Um, so if you drive down 119 by Dale's Mark and you look off to the left, you can see the logging that was done. So, um, in there, we just want to reestablish what's there, clean up some stuff, make it visible. There's not a lot of great signage. Um, there's an old

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trail that I think the Boy Scouts did at one time. Um, mark with with tags. It's um just there's just not a lot of use out there. So So gets grown in really quick, you know? So uh even for example, the map at the top of Meeting House Hill Road off of Highland Street, when you're looking at it, like I'm in those woods

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all the time. When you're looking at it, it's like I can't even figure out where I am on the map. Map's kind of funny. So again, we just want to get um just try to get more people outside and seeing these different parcels and and um you know, maintaining them and and trying to keep keep up with them and um you know,

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just seeing what we can do here in town. >> There's no doubt that when you had mentioned it's going to be when you ask for permission to go on people's property, that's key. I mean, when we were kids, that was a long time ago, we could get anywhere on our dirt bikes.

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One of the biggest issues with us, we would knock on doors, introduce ourselves, and ask if we could have permission to cut through your field or 99% of the time we were embraced. Not a problem, you kids. Be safe. Be quiet,

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you know, and it worked great. That's changed. >> Yep. Absolutely. Actually, um, so I'm the president of the Ashby Animal Dirt Bike Club as well, and we're putting on an event this summer where we're doing an 80 mile trail ride through five different towns

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>> on >> on all private property. >> Mountain bikes, >> uh, dirt bikes. And so we have, >> you're a brave group. >> We have uh, we're backed by Nitro, which is New England Trail Rider Association, and this stuff happens all over New England every weekend, actually. Um, and

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we've reached out to over 30 different private land owners um, over the past three or four months, and everybody has said yes to us, and they have actually welcomed us with open arms, which has been really great. So, we're it's it's a one-time thing um, one day through

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private property and using roads as well. All the motorcycles are plated, so they're all dual sports. But, yeah, like you said, you know, asking for permission is is the way to do it. Cuz the first time you go through somebody's property and you didn't ask permission.

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>> Yeah. Then you're you're done. That's >> it. So >> So Patrick, you have definitions of stuff that >> uh you guys have done or >> so no this is our proposal of what we feel like the meeting house project will look like when it's done. And so we want

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to clear the brush the existing trails GPS map the trails publish on all trails. All Trails is an app that's really commonly used amongst bikers, hikers, dirt bikers, probably snowmobiles. It's it's just an app on your phone. >> Are any other trails right now currently on all trails?

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>> I don't know to be honest. >> Yeah, I don't know. >> There's other towns of not being park. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Something on all trails right now. It's >> There's other towns and trails, but not that I could find. in in December when we met uh

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informally. I I just put a notice on our on the Facebook page, Townsen uh whatever that page is and uh said, "Hey, come to the library. We're going to we're going to talk about this." And we had 15 people show up. >> Yeah. We wanted to get an idea to see if other people were interested in in, you

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know, in in um performing something like this as well. And we got decent feedback. Just >> minimal minimal advertising. I just wanted to hear them out like what are you what are you concerned with? And one of the one of the things that people continue to bring up and I I mean myself too. Uh you go out to town of State

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Forest is huge. You can go out there >> which area of state forest. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. You go out there three four miles and you're like where where am I? >> Well and I know the first responders have >> had troubles. That's another another missed opportunity. It's like I mean there's a

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lot of people that we could form a group if they need a hand or you know again and signage helps and different things like that. It's intimidating, right? Like some people I go out there all the time and there aren't very many people out there. >> It's not intimidating. >> Well, it can be to to a new person who's not >> It's not intimidating. >> Okay, fine. It can I heard from multiple

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people. I got lost there myself. I go out there all the time. >> I'm not a new person. >> I know I know Margaret Hill's over here. She keep walking toward the street. I'll get to the street and know how to get home from there. So, um >> I spent 15 years in North Conway. I was on mountain rescue. We went out to do

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some stuff. That's intimidating. Okay. >> When we find >> I would disagree. It's 3,000 acres. You can get lost in how this absolutely. >> All I'm suggesting is that we can we can work with DCR, but that's like a later goal. Let's let's work on town properties first. Signage is signage is

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great. Like you get to a kiosk, you're like, "Okay, where am I going? I'm going this way. It's a mile and a half. I know what a mile and a half feels like." >> But if you go there and you're like, "I don't even know where I'm going." Just go. King's Cross is over there. I know it takes me about 25 minutes to get the king's cross, but >> is that what you get down 25 minutes?

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>> Yeah, something like that. >> Takes me like four weeks. >> The the Bloomberg Snow Riders has worked with Bloomberg Conservation Commission and they've done a bunch of kiosk signage and even at intersections, they got, you know, a printed out map like this kind of showing you where you are

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and whatnot. And it's it's awesome. >> Even if it's like basic, that helps a lot. It reduces the level of anxiety if you're starting to go into the woods for the first time. you're like, I don't know where I'm going. Right? So, um I know enough now about King's Cross and the loops around there that it's not intimidating to me anymore. But if I go

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off trail and get over, I'll get lost. >> And that's a plus if you have a good group of people that are really acclimated to all the trails and god forbid we have somebody lost out there, you know, we're going to look to you to activate you and your guys going to be boom, we know where that is. Go >> no matter what.

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>> What's that? >> Be the guy. >> That actually So in Grten, that actually happened. That was a huge aspect in in the mountains >> in the GR forest. They had a a group of mountain bikers from Grten that formed a little bit of team that if the police didn't know who to call because uh someone did have a heart attack out

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there and so they formed this little group and just a a great way for uh you know community resource to to >> that's that's one thing I'm very >> Yeah. That's okay. >> Yeah. So, I just I just feel like we need to promote um the stuff that we currently have, which we have a lot. Um

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promote what we have, uh maintain what we have, um you know, work uh together with the conservation and just uh again try to just get some more passive outdoor recreation, get people aware of it, and um maybe it could be an e economic driver for our town. Um I'm a

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firm believer that it could. I I know it'll take some time. I mean, I think I think >> um you know, for example, I know a lot of people come um from all over and they park their car at the the back dirt um common to leave on their bikes to go for southern New Hampshire road rides, some of them to use the town forest or

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whatever it may be. But >> we have something here. I think we're just not um I don't want to say we're not capitalizing on, but I I feel like, you know, we we have a opportunity to um to make something good out of this. So that's why we decided to form this group and to see where it goes and hopefully get some more volunteers on board and

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and uh see what we can do. >> One of the keys to that success though I want to just mention is the rail trail. >> Absolutely. >> Is the main throwaway that will help connect all these little parcels that um people know about but they're like Patrick said intimidated by. Yep.

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>> Um and I grew up going in the woods. You just ride your mountain bike on a trail and you know hopefully it takes you back to where you started. um kids now they're not know they'll do it but you're not really confident um even as a parent you know are they

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riding on private property public property is it allowed um you know but the next slide at stewardship model yeah so I just want to highlight some of the things that we we will do but we

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will not do I think the the will do stuff is is pretty self-explan- explanatory, but uh I'm not comfortable having volunteers within the nonprofit to use any power equipment. So, we ever need a a tree cut on the trail and you need a chainsaw or something, I'm going

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to look at Col, hey, I don't know, you got town resources. Can you help me out here? >> We don't have the insurance to Emmy from the department who's another um stakeholder here, too. >> Well, and you have Roger Rapa.

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>> Yes. properties as well. They have insurance available. She was explaining to me for >> Yeah. I I mean, I would rather I would rather tell the town like, "Hey, I got a tree over here that filming trail if you guys don't mind take care of it or just cut it and we'll move it out of the way." I just don't want them using power

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tools. That's all. We don't we don't we don't have the right insurance. We don't have any insurance yet um for for the volunteers. So, I I don't want to be involved with power tools at all. Um and we're not we're not cutting any new trails. Um, at least not for this

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initial meeting house proposal. We're just going to clean up the existing stuff. >> I like what I'm hearing. I like this. That's good. Yeah. >> And there are provisions in the Wetlands Protection Act that promote um

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trail creation. So, it's not going to be constant red flags on, you know, >> so will work with everybody. You know, like you said, there's provisions. Is there stuff in there that embrace it? >> They're also following a model that's an

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international model that has um best management practices associated with it, >> which I'm sure that they're all well documented. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's best practices with signage. If you're on a bike and um you're going 10 12 miles an hour, you want to be within

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eyesight. As an example, where the next am I going left or right? Right. Today, if you go out to meeting house, there's no signage. Right. Right. >> Um, so my I took my wife out there and she was like, "No way. I'm not doing this." And they're not very intimidating trails even for a biker. >> No.

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>> But she was not not cool with that. She wants to >> because she was concerned about getting lost or she was concerned about quality of the trail. >> So she's a rather novice biker. So >> Okay, I got you. >> And so if you go left, it's like a pretty steep downhill. And she she's

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like, "No way. I'm not doing that." So we went down the easy trail. um I'm comfortable riding on a bike. So, uh and she she just she needs to know exactly where she's going and what the trails like. So, she would prefer to walk in first and then bike in. But, um bike trails are are kind of like skate

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trails. You can design them so they're beginners or moderate or expert. >> Now, didn't you do work on >> I did I started a little project out there and I kind of felt like I was um you know, it was Yeah, a lot of work. So again, uh, you know, with this being said, one thing I I I think that we

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haven't I haven't capitalized on is is um I I I want more youth to be outside. I this is a focus of mine. I'd like to get more youth outside, you know, and if they have a place that they can go um, you know, to maybe explore, ride their bikes on trail, you know, just something

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and just again, it's another way um that this trails organization would be great to get youth, whether it be like you said, the Boy Scouts, getting other kids involved in trail work, teaching them good practices, you know, be good stewards of the land, you know, if they're, you know, someone's, you know, here in town and we have we can teach

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kids, you know, the proper proper stuff, it would be great, you know, I just there just a great opportunity I think will come from this and just um we we got ourselves established and we we just realized that you know for people to take us serious I guess you have to be established and and um so that's what we did and I don't know we just we're not

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sure where it's going to go but we just uh we want to get more people outside and and maintain the trails that we have and and see what we can do and maybe uh so the next week >> open house proposal um obviously self-explanatory and I think that would be a great step Um, you know, especially

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with Earth Day, I don't know if you guys have set up or cut a table. >> That was a thought. Yeah, >> it's a good idea. >> Yep. >> Um, and then your ask um you know from us

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um and what how we can help you and then um Justin can talk to us um from the snowmobile aspect. Um, and if you guys don't, we're just a little behind, but it's not a big

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deal. >> I told you these guys are >> I just No, you're fine. Let's keep >> um So, how can we help you guys in um >> seems like you guys are generally

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supportive of it. We just we just we just don't want people out there working on trails without the blessing of the conservation commission. I mean I if it's nonbinding it's non-binding you could make a motion to work with F alliance conservation on that property and then that if there's any issues that

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come up I can raise them. So I wonder we've already given Ronnie formal approval with town council that >> we did that. >> Oh yeah. >> Just just reaffirming that with the town trails alliance specific label might

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that helps us if there's anything that I need to bring forward or you guys need to bring forward. Just a thought. Now even the select people are >> so my question and this is more cool because he's going to have to follow through with the um an action item for

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him is can we take Ronnie's agreement he has with conservation commission for meeting house park and can it be transferred to town uh towns and trails alliance um you know I guess in perpetuity

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um you know for the same type of Do you need me to look up what was that was actually said in the meeting >> or the agreement and make sure it's kosher with >> just by you guys saying you would like to that to also follow the town alliance

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if the board agrees then we have that going forward we can see how to transfer >> I make a motion that towns and conservation commission um agrees to partner uh with towns and trail alliance

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um in maintaining, improving and creating trails um on our properties on our town properties, I'll say. I won't even say conservation properties, but our town properties. >> Okay. >> So, you're limiting it to that.

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>> We're limited to pretty broad, >> right? But our town property, but we can't speak for fishing. >> No problem. >> I I think this is a great idea. I'm all for it. And getting trying to get kids out in the outdoors is it's a challenge.

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Yeah. Yeah. Really get off the get them off the phones. >> That gives me the inspiration though. >> Yeah, it does. Um >> I'm pretty new to the conservation here still and so I you know I'm sure we'll be careful with the wetlands and everything.

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>> Well, with that said, they there's still um you know, environmentally sensitive areas that they're going to have to >> come to. >> Right. >> Okay. Um but there are provisions in the WPA I think >> I think it's there's a width of um trail

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that are exempt but you know if they have want to do stuff they especially um conservation owned properties that really are going to have to come to us with the ideas like um >> trails they where they want the trails and everything to make sure there's not

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into the wetlands. Is that >> you know if there's an existing trail that leaves through a a marshy area and they just want to maintain it. >> Okay. I just wonder how >> it generally >> don't go through marshy areas but I

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think we could even like reroute >> we can pro you know we probably should walk it with somebody just to show like here's what we're want to do another commissioner um you know when you guys are planning on doing another

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section >> either way guidelines >> but yeah I do think it's a great idea I I Thank you. >> I made a motion, >> Mr. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, uh, regarding the >> Do you mind identifying yourself? over there and I'm one of the pox

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commissioners and um I spoke with the other commissioners here and it may be productive to have you come to one of our commissioner meetings and see how we might be able to assist you and

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integrate your intentions with ours >> and I just wanted to comment. >> Yes, sir. our our hold. I'm John Barrett and also park commissioner here on the next item on the agenda. But just to say we we don't have as large a holdings as the conservation commission in terms of

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the area, but we do have um uh some cemetery lands and uh Howard Park. So, which is a great a great spot that a lot of people don't even realize is there as well. Yeah. Which is Yeah, absolutely.

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>> Um I know what I Yeah. Yeah. My motion was broad. Um, >> you ready for a second? >> I'm ready for a second. >> Second. >> Who's your turn? I already got >> And and we're not We're gonna Justin has something to talk to us about after. Um, roll call starting with Mike.

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>> I said yes. >> James B. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Sandra Lord. Yes. >> So, anything we can do to help? Obviously, I know you guys are still in your infancy, but >> I've literally talked to Ronnie about this for years, and it is

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>> it's more or less I've grabbed Jane's ear for years, and he has had to listen to me. Find someone to help you with >> his attention. He's brought it back for us. So, it's a good thing. >> This is a great to have another

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commission here that in the select board rep. Emmy, did you have anything you wanted to add? You're paying attention, not multitasking. >> Moving on. >> Oh, her mic is turned on. >> All right. Yeah. No, I am multitasking,

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but um but no, I've been paying attention to the whole thing and I just wanted to add, you know, I met with all the guys a couple weeks ago and um you know, wreck 100%. We've been on board with any kind of outdoor recreation we can push forward. We're in it. Um stewardship's a big deal for us. Um, and

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getting the kids outdoor. That's I mean we are a non-technology program for a reason. The idea is to get the kids out and playing and um connecting as much as they possibly can with the community. So you'll see our rag and muffins outside often. Um and yeah, we're I mean we're

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as a commission, we talked about it at our last meeting. Um myself as the director as well as my staff. Um, we are 100% in for whatever we can do to support this and to work with the alliance on getting these trails more accessible to the entire community.

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>> Wow. >> Just kind of coming to fruition really quick. It's It's really exciting. >> Very exciting. >> What is a raga muffin? I haven't seen any of those on trails before. >> Is that like you kids?

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>> Yeah, that's them youths. Okay. Because that's the biggest thing to me with this whole we get the kids more involved in it. Yeah. Absolutely. >> I'd like to see more kids involved in conservation. I'd like to see more kids involved in agriculture and getting out and you know instead of

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>> so as a uh as a as a um 41 year resident of towns and as a kid I always was out in the woods and I still am out in the woods this day and um I recently got a certification as a mountain bike instructor and I'd like to just again get kids outside on bikes or exploring

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the land and and you know obviously with that being said I mean there's an education that comes with it too. Again, we want these these future stewards of of the land, you know, >> and that's what they are. >> If you can get them enticed to it, you know, they're the future to it. >> So, that's what we're that's what we're

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hoping to do. Like I said, we're we're starting now. We're in our infasy stage, but we're we want to uh do some good things and so >> see what we can do. >> Um I I appreciate you guys being here. Uh Justin is here with Lunberg Snow Riders and Sam Snowmobile Association,

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Massachusetts. Um, and something similar. We're going to keep it just snowmobiles. >> Yeah. >> But I don't want to bring up wheel things. It's can of worms. I don't feel like dealing with >> decision. >> Um, but snowmoing is also equally as

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important. Um, because it connects you to areas that you can't access sometimes during >> incredible year. It's a whole different world out there in in the middle of the winter when you can get to areas. I

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mean, extremely quickly. >> So, um >> I'm going to pass a couple things around for you guys to see. This is just >> tell us some proposed maps. >> Lunberg Snow Riders. They work uh with uh Lunberg Conservation and Shirley,

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right? Um and they are in the initial talks of with Swanico Greenways um to possibly um or to discuss the opportunity to um bring snowmoing to Western Towns.

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>> Yeah. >> Um yeah. Want me to take it from here? >> Yeah. Um let me pass some of these around too. These are some letters of support we've got from local businesses. >> Uh Lunberg Conservation. So, the Lunberg snowmobile, uh, the snow riders has been

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around for 59 years now. Um, and they've >> been around for a while. >> Yeah, they've done phenomenal work. So, they've they've partnered up with Lunberg Conservation for years and they've done in the past 5 years, they've done over $250,000 in grant work. Uh, and most of that's

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not for snowmmoiling. It's for regular foot foot traffic trails, biking trails, horse riding trails. They built parking areas, um, signage, kiosk, uh, bridges. They got this one, there's an area in towns in, um, or Lunberg, the

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Hullman Street, and there was this whole town owned property that was owned by conservation that you couldn't access because of a river. The Lunberg snow riders got a grant, they built the bridge, and now it's this awesome recreation zone for the people of Lunberg. We even made a parking area. Uh

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we got a $60,000 grant uh $61,000 grant a few years ago. Um and we built an ADA compliant trail and we made a like a viewing platform that was ADA accessible and it was kind of overlook some uh wetlands uh that was like a drainage out of Hickory Hills. So they've done a lot

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of really cool projects for the area and we're we're looking to broaden and do some more work with Towns of Conservation Commission, Ashby Conservation if they'll talk to us at all. Um but uh so anyways, what we're trying to work on right now next week.

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>> One second. Yes, sir. >> I just uh I'm trying to help your people and the guest tonight. Um Sandra and I are on the community preservation

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committee. It's newly founded and the our committee will be accepting grants uh applications

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um to review to determine priorities and to uh make recommendations. There are some funds are already available in the town to do this.

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um they can't be released until they're approved at the town meeting. Um but um and I would suggest that um if there are grant requests that they

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might be submitted for our committee to make a recommendation or consider. They'll have to be considered with other applicants as well. Um, but I did want you to be aware of that and uh the people that you have as

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guests tonight. >> Thank you. >> That's that's an exciting opportunity that's taken a long time to >> um come together >> with they know the extension for the rail trails heading to the west west towns and next, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So um

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>> so anyways an interesting corridor towards our way. >> Exactly. So, so with with the future extensions of the rail trail, our snowmobile club realized we're like, we need to get involved with them. We need to work on a partnership. Um, we want to

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be able to bring more passive recreation opportunities in the wintertime to the town of Townsen in West Townsen over by the poor farm. Um, snowmoilers very often come from the Mason all all of the Mason rail bed is maintained by the

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Brook Brooklyn Icebreaker snowmobile club and they groom right up to the Massachusetts border. Um, the winter recreation going on over there is >> um it's quite >> you know when you hit mass >> it's fantastic when you leave. >> So this year there was so much winter recreation. You get you hit the

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Massachusetts border and the trail was awful. Uh it was not maintained. Um so our our >> you cutting across the pole farm going through. >> Let's >> No. So we're just talking about the rail trail. Yeah. So so we're trying to get

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we're trying to get on board with the um the Squanico Greenway committee here. >> Yeah. Um we we feel like if if they bring us in as a partnership, we'll be able to groom and maintain the rail bed in the wintertime and help out with uh

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summer maintenance as well as we pose another opportunity for grants. We get grants from off-road funds that they cannot get. Um, so we see a real good opportunity for this partnership. Um, not only for the greenway committee, but the town of Townsen. Um, just this

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winter alone, when you drove by the rail trail, when we had 2 ft of snow on the ground, you didn't see any tracks on it this winter. It was extremely underutilized. And >> isn't it restricted? You can't run snowmobiles down. >> Well, right. No, you can't. But there

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was too much snow to cross country ski. >> Yeah, there was no >> I understand. I'm sorry. No. So, >> yeah, >> it was always a joke. It was nice when someone took a snowmobile down the trail so they could so they could. >> Yeah. So, for instance, um the Lunberg Snow Riders, we we groomed from Lake

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Shirley to Trap Falls in Nashville. Um so, I personally groomed 124 hours um in Willard Brook and Pearlbrook this winter alone. Um so, and in Pearlbrook and Willardbrook, we saw so much foot traffic. Everybody was walking their

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dogs out there this winter. The crossc country skiers were loving it. Um people were mountain biking. Everybody was in the state park because the trails were groomed. They were packed. They were maintained. Um that was not the case for the rail trail, which I believe if that

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was groomed and maintained in the winter time, you would see everybody out and about on the rail trail. And >> and it's not their choice that, you know, they haven't had a heavy winter like this since rail trail was built either. >> Right. It's been a while since we've had

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>> substantial snow follow like that we did this year. >> So, so basically the reason why I'm here is I'm kind of we're hoping to get your support as we move forward talking with the greenway committee. Um ultimately it's up to the greenway whether they want to allow snowmobiles and the

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snowmobile club to help out with them. >> Um we have a meeting with them next Wednesday the 15th and they're very open to this discussion and having these talks. So, we're we uh been going around. We got um we have letters of support from most of the town, most of

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the businesses that are along the >> letters. >> Yeah. >> Or were they in that email for you to get more? >> Here's here's one from the Mariano family who owns a bunch of restaurants. Here's the Townsen House. >> Yeah. Even Bobb's all about it. >> Yeah. So, >> music.

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>> Yes. So, you know, having having the snowmo the snowmobile club present um down the rail trail and everything, it's going to be great for the businesses that, you know, are typically a little bit slower in the winter time. And having having more, >> it's not just snowmobileers, it's skiers

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and mountain bikers taking the trail right to the towns and house and to village. >> Yeah. >> Um, we think it'd be a really great thing. So, we were I'm here to hopefully get you guys' blessing and we were hoping to get a letter of support that we could present to the community. >> I spoke up in West Towns and we all have

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snowmobiles. We all have four wheels. We all have snow. >> But we're motorized. We I'm all for it. You're welcome. come up through. >> Another concern we have too is as of right now, you know, um so the snow

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riders, we have access to towns of state force where the DCR has permission. We're allowed to ride all the trails in there. We're allowed to maintain them. We haven't um just because we don't really have anybody stationed in that area. So we but we have been talking about getting a grant and we're going to put another groomer in the other area.

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>> Oh, that's what you meant by station. Somebody that can take care of the trail. Yeah, we have five groomers right now. >> Five? >> Yeah. So, we have them spaced out between Ashb and Lake Shirley. >> How many did you say? How many miles of trails? >> We have about 70 miles of trails. It was

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awesome. I I probably did 800 miles in with five, you know, I mean, I'm not sure they're not pissed over. And one of the hurdles that has to be um overcome um if >> lease agreement

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>> is the lease agreement with MBTA. Um >> for the rail trail >> for the for the additional rail trail. Um >> so as of yet to west >> as of right now the rail trail is the lease agreement says no motorized vehicles. >> Right. So if they continue to the Mason

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line, the trails that the snowmoilers use in West Towns and now will become no longer legal trails for snowmobiles because of their lease agreement. >> So >> So we're trying to get ahead of that, be part of it. So snowmoilers maintain that right. >> Um it would

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>> if we lost that right, it would disconnect towns and state forest in the Mason rail bed. We wouldn't be able to >> So that's a big disconnect. >> It's a big disconnect. >> That's way more than you can compensate. >> Yeah. So what we're proposing with the the greenways, they are still going to

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be the main steward of this. Um so if they don't like how things are going, they have the overall Yeah. they can pull the plug on it. Um so we're just we're just hoping to get a foot in the door. We want to work with them. Um and it's not just for snowmoiling. It's for all winter recreation. And we want to

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help out in the summertime. We want to help out with grants. They have a lot to do to fix these bridges up, too. There are two trestles that >> Oh, West Towns and >> those haven't been determined what they're going to do with them yet or how they're going to >> We we have uh we've had huge success

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with getting grants from the off-road funds and we we can be a big help for that. Um if they can work with us said about snowmobile clubs, they do the heavy lifting. >> Um and there are other um rail trails in the state that allow snowmobiles. Not

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many, but there are >> not many. Snowmobile Association of Massachusetts is working on this issue um in a couple different regions. Um historically the MBTA the railroad areas have always been deated no motorized vehicles. >> I was just going to say

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>> it's not just the MBTA services like that. >> And I and I've heard that. I've always heard that. And so my my view was well these were originally intended for trains. that's the biggest motorized vehicle around. And then and then at some point um the

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you know the the Squano Greenways completely changed changed the verbiage the the agreement you know as part of the original plan for these railroads. There was no there was no clause for if this if this group wants to rip up the

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rails and make a walking trail that's okay. But they were able to change everything and they were able to get this awesome rail trail that we have now. So I don't see why we couldn't get the contracts amended once again to allow snowmobiles

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and winter passive recreation. This is only west towns and this is not the existing trail itself. >> Um but there is some state level work that has to take place that um you have Sam backing you. We we've talked about

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it and you know if possible we would like the lease agreement to accompass the whole trail if that's a possibility but once again this would be something that the Squanica greenways would control the say on that if they say

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snowmoilers allowed up to a certain point there. We figured we'll go for everything and then we'll work together. And >> so it's going to be a matter of they're really going to need to build their relationship with them and communication.

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>> That can be >> that's doable. >> It's doable. >> Yeah. And it would be a great >> I know there were two questions over here. >> This is just actually it's another question that's coming. And I think it's important to note too is like if you go to the snow breakers in Brooklyn that is primarily used for flood traffic. It's

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that short season and it's all the snowmobile people maintaining it that allows that foot traffic for the rest of the season. That's beautiful because that snow protects >> um that's Palmer >> Palmer Palmer Bartell sorry

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>> they have a line of a lot of the snow trail that impacted >> they have three networks that work together >> that entire trail bed and you can't ride it when they're yours so that it's a protection layer and the trail is beautiful it really is so >> yeah same I mean other words that

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>> there's another >> they can live together it's it's doable. >> Not all trails, but those wider trails with good gravel base. I mean, that's kind of And then it opens up your cross country skiing through all the time. And I don't have snowmobile and I use those in the winter. So, >> I don't have the facts on it in front of

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me. Some >> some of our other members in the club would, but um I bet you it's over 50% of the work we've done as a snowmobile club wasn't intended for snowmobiles. Like we've done huge work in Lunberg for hiking only trails um and and that kind

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of stuff like the Holman Street conservation area that is like the biggest it's a dog park. It's mountain biking. It's foot traffic. Um even when you cross through there on your snowmobile this winter, you never saw snowmobile tracks. It was so beat up

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with footprints and everything. It's a huge >> passive recreation zone which is and that whole area was made by the Bloomberg Snow Riders. Uh we have >> and you guys mapped it too. You kiosk like you said. >> Yeah. Kio, parking area. It's beautiful

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out there. Bridges um to you know avoid wetland mitigation and everything like that. Um so we're really hoping the rail trail >> that'll be one of their strong suits to get some of these allowances working with their trails. Even if it isn't a snowmobile, we're all to walking trails,

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too. Boom, boom, boom. Everybody working together, >> it's doable. >> So, I could talk about snowmobiles all day long, but another one. >> Basically, we're just looking for your guys' support. >> Chairman, uh I just wanted to make a mention on the fact that well, I'm a hunter and Townsen has a long uh history

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of hunting people in town. And I just wanted you folks when you're doing whatever you're you're doing with the trails and allowing I know there are some areas where hunting is banned. Uh obviously you got to be careful when there's a a road with a rail trail. You

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have to consider that a road. So as a hunter you have to stay, you know, 500 ft away from it. But uh although it's not paved, so maybe that's not that far. I just want to bring that up as a consideration in your, you know, I think again like the idea that snowmoilers can

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be compatible with bikers and crosscountry skiers. I just feel the hunters in the mix. >> Well, I think that is another abs user group that I think it could absolutely benefit from all this as well. I mean, I think there sounds has an abundance of hunters, right? And so >> and then we have another question when you guys

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>> I that would be another user group that we could also you know again education behind it you know agreements of you know hunting season we we know that areas closed down or what whatever it may be. But I think you know >> I think the the common the common theme

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to all this is we just we all see maybe untapped uh you know outdoor recreation possibility that that maybe could be like I said an economic driver in town. Um, but we're just looking to hopefully tap into it. All different user groups try to work together. >> Cindy, >> yeah. >> What

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>> did you say? No, you just said thank you. >> Oh, Cindy, >> your hands raised. >> Yes. >> Yes. Uh, thank you. I I just want to speak out. I'm not representing my commission right now, but myself. I am the chair though of the commission on disability for the town and this sounds

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like a pretty exciting uh group to do some of the work that some of these things can really make it more the trails all over more accessible for the disabled by by making doing some of this grooming and and even some of the work that it sounds like that they're looking

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at doing can be in order to make the trails more accessible for the disabled. So, um I think we'll probably be excited to work with them, too. >> Absolutely. Um speaking on that, uh snowmoiling is a great opportunity for u

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people that aren't as accessible. I have a friend that lives in Ashb. He's in a he's been in a wheelchair his whole life. I bet you he rode probably 500 miles on our trail system this winter. He was out probably three, four times a week.

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>> Um so, it gives an opportunity for people that can't walk. um to get out and uh enjoy the same trails that everybody else gets enjoy. >> Amen. >> Commissioners, >> you going for a vote on this or

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>> Oh, yeah. I I I motion that we um >> provide a letter of support to um the Lunberg snow riders um on behalf of the conservation commission and the town of Townsen.

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Just do the conservation question. I'll I'll bring it to Yeah, you guys do your thing first >> and you'll go >> Yeah, go ahead and do your thing first. >> The only downside is we need by Wednesday. >> They got it. There's AI.

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>> Yeah. >> Um and I have a bunch of examples here. >> Mr. Chair, have you completed the motion? I just wanted to make sure I second >> on behalf of the conservation. >> Thank you. >> Can you second? >> I second. It was my turn. >> Roll call. said, "Yes." >> James Dro, yes.

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>> James Gates, yes. >> Sandra Lord, yes. >> Now, you can talk to Val who >> a se member and >> Yeah. Thank Thank you guys. Thank you very much for your time and your support.

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>> Like I said, um this is literally years. Everyone read this table. >> It kind of just came out of nowhere. >> It's very exciting. >> It's very exciting. >> Appreciate it.

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>> Thank you very much. >> And we have another commission here that have recently been waiting that need to call their meeting to order. >> Nice meeting you guys. >> Thank you guys very much. >> Very interesting. >> Thank you everyone. >> You guys are moving. They're coming up

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to the call. They got to call in. >> We know. >> I know. >> Thank you. >> I don't want to miss anything, but I really have to step up for a minute. >> That's fine. It looks like everyone's >> Okay. Yeah. Just leave some paperwork and I'll be right back.

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>> Thank you. Well, so actually before you guys got once you guys are done um >> 3.1 also on the pass commission one sec. Um so 3. So 3.1 um voluntary response form with

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Natalie call uh we >> please we have an open meeting going >> um >> thank you >> she wasn't able to attend uh so that >> um so we're going to just table that until Kobe can have a response.

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>> Okay. Did you get all that? The letter of support by Okay, that was a lot. Um I know >> 3.2 cemetery and parks commission joint meeting approximately 8 and 8:30.

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>> What? Thank no problem there Jim. Uh I I just wanted to as chairman mention the fact that I think that um uh where you >> No, actually not because I think we will be here. >> Uh at the posted meeting of the

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conservation commission. We are not going to as park commissioners, we're not going to deliberate. And this is under the provisions of uh section 18 C of uh the general laws that provides that um

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>> we're not going to >> the following words shall unless the context clearly requires otherwise have the following meanings. Um and meeting is a deliberation by a public body with respect to any matter within the body's jurisdiction provided however a meeting shall not include and one of the many

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reasons is attendance by a quorum of a public body as a meeting of another public body that is complied with the notice requirements of the open meeting law so long as the visiting members communicate only by open participation in the meeting on those matters under discussion by the host body and do not deliberate

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>> and I'm suggesting that we approach it this way because Even though we requested meeting with you, I don't believe our meeting as a meeting was posted. >> So I think >> it was. >> Yeah, it was. I think it was. >> Oh, it was >> because presently yours you stand in.

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>> All right. Well, then we can open a meeting. >> The posting they stand. >> It was posted. It was posted before our meeting. >> Posted as our one of our meetings. >> Yes. >> Okay. I never saw it. Okay. Well, I guess we can call >> Now, am I right in that because they stand in quorum? >> You just read why you didn't have to. >> I didn't think it was posted. So

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>> I think >> um >> what did I miss? >> Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. So I guess I'd call the uh meeting of the parks cemetery and parks commission to order. >> All right. >> Uh roll call vote for those present.

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>> Robert the present. >> John Barrett present. All right. We're open. >> Roger is our superintendent. >> So you are only two. So they're >> No, we've got three. form. >> We only have three

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small little group. >> So, um, appreciate you guys taking the time and I know you guys, uh, have a heavier schedule, I think, for meeting, uh, than than we do. Um, so, appreciate taking the time. Um, and, um, we wanted

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to just have a dialogue with you about our concerns about the removal of Adam's Dam. Um, and I passed out. I hope everybody got a copy of it, but a poem which for me, uh, >> do you have another copy? >> Uh, oh yes, >> thank you very much.

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>> Can we have a copy of the letter? >> Yeah. And I don't know if um you guys also have a copy of the letter. I've got copies of the letter that we sent to the select board um about a couple months ago, three or four months ago, and you

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can just use that for reference. Um and uh thank you sir. >> Um copy that too. >> Oh no that's okay. Don't worry about it.

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>> So um just briefly I I guess we feel that it's it's not a good idea to remove the dam. Uh we understand that there's a a strong uh argument by fisheries and wildlife that they they want to remove

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the dams uh to to promote the fisheries. >> It's deer that is pursuing the initiative deer environmental resources. Okay. >> But it is optional though. It's not it's not like mandatory though. >> No. But

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>> right >> just Yeah. Who's who's the ones promoting this idea? Um, and then I think there's pros and cons to it. Um, I think I would, and if you don't mind, Bob, I'll just give my spiel and then

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>> I'll speak you a chance. Probably take longer than me. Um, is that, you know, if you look at Adams, for one thing, it's it's a it's a relic of what it used to be. Um it there used to be flashboards there uh that raised the

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height of the river upstream I'd say by about 2 to three feet anyways. And in my youth we always could go swimming at Black Rock and dive off the rock. Not Black Rock itself but the rock uh at the uh at the riverbank. Uh and uh you know

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um it was a great swimming hole. Uh, also is a great swimming hole is the pool below Adams Dam itself. Uh, I've gone there. Uh, I've taken my grandkids there. I've gone down there and seen other people that use that as a

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recreational area for swimming. And, um, we believe or I believe that if that dam is removed, that's going to pretty much eliminate those swimming holes um, from any meaningful swimming. Um, it's part I think of Townsen's culture and that's

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why I passed out that poem by Philip Gwyn. I'm not sure exactly when it was written, but I I from the terminology I sus suspect it was probably around 1930 or earlier. And um I think that u I would love to see I'm glad that the

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other folks were here, the Towns and Trails Alliance and Snowmobile Group and certainly what you guys all are I think involved with is preserving Townsen's nature. And I think even though it's man-made, you know, it's I think part of the nature of towns and to have that

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that dam there in its limited sense of a dam. In fact, we had been talking at our meetings about the fact that we would like to see it raised. Um, and if that were to be done, I I guess I'd like you to consider the options as we participate in this process of of maybe

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there are some alternatives. Maybe a fish ladder or something could be put in. Uh, I don't know what the costs are for that. I I suspect it's a lot easier to just rip the dam out, but >> but I'm sure there's grant opportunities for that. Yeah, there's also all the groups, but keep going. And

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>> yeah, so I mean that's that's I think that's about it. I think the two basic things that I have is recreational um or three basic things. Not to sound like the Spanish Inquisition, but the the recreational, the historic, and the

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fact that I I'm not convinced that the removal of the Dan is going to improve fish habitat that much um as they are projecting. So anyway, um thank you, John. Um, I grew up in this town

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and I can remember probably 8 to 10 different swimming areas in the whole community. All that I can recognize now are two which is the Adam Dam area and the other

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part down at the Squan Cookook which was I called it peptides pat >> and so >> the public at large is not even aware of these >> I'm too >> south road take a hide right on a shop

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corner take a hide can take you right to it be a bridge. >> So the public at large is not even aware that we have any >> and we have lost those of the swimming areas. I have to agree.

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>> And so, um, my posture on this and the other chair, uh, commissioner who is not present tonight, Brian, um, also he and I were very vocal about

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what was being asked for. Such so that I wrote a letter to on behalf of the commission to the board of selectment >> parks and recreation. >> Right. >> Okay. >> And that letter I think is before you.

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>> The issues here are far more than concern of fish going up and down the river, you know, the area there. Um, so we believe as part of Pox and

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Cemetery that the Adams Dam area is really under our maintenance and portfolio. Um and so there was a very strong voice about three members of our commission

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about preserving the swimming there and even trying to enhance further swimming throughout the community. So um the other thing is if it's solely focused on fish then it should be solely

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focused on a fish ladder if that's what's needed. Secondly, I have done further um review or research on this myself

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and I'd like to point out some other topics that impact this topic. One of them is the CO2 level in the waterways that we have which includes the

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>> Squanicqu uh Probrook and Willlet Brook. So it really impacts all the waterways in our town and that

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it seems a little fully to focus a lot of money on having the available, you know, the fish being accessible to more water when the water itself isn't beneficial for the

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fish. >> Depleted. That's one point I'd like to make. And so the CO2 levels in the water is related to the slower current in the

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water. So over time the lack of maintenance of our waterways has caused those waterways to become shallow filled in and expand

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which further enhances our wetland problem. Um so the real cause or the benefit for fish and the public at large is to maintain

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our waterways. So, and then the other statement that was made at our commission meeting is Adam's Dam is one small dam of a whole series of

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dams along the same waterway. >> Absolutely. >> So, what impact would we actually deliver even if we removed it? So I wanted to bring this to the attention of everyone here and on a

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personal level I personally believe that the people of Townsen deserve more freshwater swimming areas and upset the subject their children to chlorine swimming pools.

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And as what you had with your previous guest tonight, discussing the rail trail, >> discussing meeting house park, and as I mentioned earlier tonight about

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the community preservation group. >> Yeah. >> I personally was going to introduce, we haven't had our meeting yet, >> right? Because you're in the beginning stages with the community. That's right. But we'll be able to accept applications

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this fall. >> Mhm. So, one of the things that I thought might be a good thing to that our parks department might approach the community preservation

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people uh for grant money to enhance Meeting House Park to create a town beach, which would be a familyoriented

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thing that would attract even more people. >> It all works with the community development offices objectives to attract tourism to the town. >> Sure. So, what I'm saying to you,

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um, why our parks department is so adamant about preserving the Adam stand to begin with and to declare the need for more natural swimming areas in our

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community. Um, so John and myself have grandchildren and we have to travel to take them to swim. Um, >> well I don't. >> Well, he doesn't. I do. But

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>> well, not very far anyway. >> Anyway, I I I just wanted the people to understand that there are other subject matters related to this dam beyond the fishing component. Absolutely.

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And I I I have um I had intended tonight to have published the uh research article on the CO2 that that also is far more enhanced.

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>> There's there's I mean if I I don't want to interrupt you. I want you to >> No, but I'm saying if you want that I'll try to get that available. I I found the article. I clicked on the link >> and then I sent the link to all my

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commissioners here, all our commissioners and they none of none of us could open it. So, we have to find a way to open that link so I could give you that handout. But it's very uh it was a pretty comprehensive uh survey.

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And so I was going to suggest to my board commissioner members that we apply to the community development office uh to request grant money to study the

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cleanup of the waterways. >> Correct. So that we can touch on that. Don't put a pin in that before you say something. Jimmy Sandra had her hand up. >> Oh no. >> I don't know if I had my hand up. I had my mouth open. writing up. But um yeah,

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I I totally agree with um John and Robert about this. My husband I I always talk about my husband. My husband's a biologist and we talked about this even before this came up as far as like fish and everything and dams and everything and I forget when we were talking about

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it but and then all of a sudden this comes up. um he believes in his professional opinion that you would have to take down all the dams just like you're saying to be s you may be successful and and he was saying

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a fish ladder as well. Um that I I believe firmly I think it was you know fruitless endeavor to just take it down and just and just >> so to make sure that we um the

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I don't want Kobe to be discouraged either because I appreciate what he does and this isn't this was kind of the I don't say this is going to sound worse than it's intended but Adam Stan is the easiest targeted dam to discuss. us. >> I'm sorry.

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>> Adam Stan was Sorry, I'm I've got a head cold. >> Well, I'm out of here. >> I am, too. Adam Stan was the kind of the easiest dam to discuss about removal. Obviously, you look at Canal Street Bridge, that is a very important dam,

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especially with flood control and same with the harbor, >> right? >> Um the purpose of the grant is to just do a study, >> right? um and not there's no decision on if it's going to be removed because the

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environmental impact come back and say there's no need to you would cause more impact by removing it which Roger knows how steep the slopes are. >> Okay. >> Um it'd be a very difficult thing to do without very large equipment and

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probably harming more of the environment >> um than really providing any um >> benefit >> benefit. So >> again, this is just a study thing. Um, >> no, I wholeheartedly agree with the studying of our waterways.

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>> I I connected with uh it was um Native Fish Coalition um with one of their members last year at the um outdoor expo at um Hampshire Hills >> and they put me in contact with their director um

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>> of what Cold Water Fisheries. Yes. Or um Native Fish Coalition, which >> they all it's cold water fishers. >> Yes. >> Um it's a nonprofit organization in uh I think yeah the um

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they're nationwide or at least this one is New England, but they know the Swan Cookook. Well, um, Bob Mallerie, who's the executive director, emailed me >> to connect and he said, "I've fished

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this river so many times, >> and it's truly a special river." Um, but Colby, last meeting, we talked about um discussing cleaning up the river. As you remember, they did that

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>> almost 10 years ago now. Well, I can we we understand >> that this was just a study and the grant money was for that. I think what was more disturbing is

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the scope of review of that grant, meaning encompassing some of the other topics that I just presented. And there was one other topic that I did not present as yet, but I'm on the

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member of the planning board. And last fall, the federal government flood insurance program >> Oh. came up with >> 500 year math and a lot of guessing of where the

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>> exactly and a lot of the expanse of >> water uh wetlands is related to >> we saw an incredible increase of the footprint on the >> my wasn't objection so much to the grant

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but not knowing specifically the limits of the study. Do do you understand? >> And maybe more studies required before any decision is made. Um so that was the

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purpose of why we asked to be present and >> it's something that needs to get discussed and I know it's tough if it's only one of one of you in a meeting to bring up everyone's point, >> right? >> Um >> I know there have been like three um I

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guess test results with bacteria last year. That was one thing that stood out when we talked about it. >> Yes. >> Um but I imagine if you started cleaning up the waterway that would have a positive impact. >> No, that was a failed septic. >> That's a failed septic failed septic. >> We already isolated where that was

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coming from familiar with the water. >> Oh, that's right. Okay. >> Okay. So, that's a resolved issue. >> So, we've been able to figure out where that comes from. Yeah. But there's a >> Can I run it for a minute? >> No, keep going. There's a lot of dynamics that are going on with the

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river right now. I'm I'm in the west west towns and so they're looking at the VFW to breach that dam and allow the VFW to disappear. That's going fishing game has already targeted it. They don't have the

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money to do a rebuild for a dam there. So they're >> so that's a great example. >> They're going to just say we're going to breach it. We're going to allow it to go to a natural waterway area. But they also have to do a study associated with it. They have to do the same process. I

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attended a seminar or a presentation two years ago with the um dam removal and there are benefits to certain scenarios. I'm not a professional but I feel the VFW dam would be an example of a great

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um area because it would be difficult to muck out the pond. Um, and there I don't You can't repair. >> You're going to take out the pond? >> Uh, oh, no. We're not doing anything. Nothing's set. >> What did she say? >> Oh, no. I live in West Townson, so I kind of like

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>> kind of like want to know. >> No, nothing. Nothing. Nothing's >> under study right now. >> Oh, you didn't know that? It's under studies for to have that dam removed. >> Well, it's only Well, no, it's just a study that it's preliminary. >> Correct.

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But the, you know, to repair that, Dan, I the net benefit wouldn't, I think, be there. But again, the net benefit may be and probably will be much um Yeah, there'd be a lot it'd be less beneficial to

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remove something like Adam's dams. >> Uh you have a letter, John, from a dam inspection. >> Yeah. >> Which I think if you don't mind reading. >> No, not at all. It's um >> you had somebody from the state go down inspect. This is >> fairly dated. No, this is this is this

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is something from our records. >> How long ago was it? >> 1999. >> Oh, that's just >> So at that time though, they said based on visual inspection results uh and the the code of mass regs the Adams Dam is considered non-jurisdictional.

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Uh this is for the the department of I think dam safety. um that the Adams Dam is a run of river dam and is less than 6 feet in height and impounds less than 15 acres feet of water. I think this is well before the

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flashboards went on it too. So back then it was six feet now it's probably 3 feet >> you know and there might have been changes in you know the law also so we can't >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's but but what they do say is that the office of dam safety wants to bring to the town's

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attention a debris pile located upstream at the abandoned railroad trestle. Large trees, roots, etc. impedes the flow of river flow as potentially unstable restriction that may exacerbate a high water or flooding event. Therefore, we recommend the removal of the trestle and debris pile. So again, I think that that

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pile is still there. But >> is it by and large? Yeah. And I go back to when we did that clean up with the Squan Cookook crew. I was on that when we took all the canoes down there. We got all the approvals for it. We had have spotters from the D there.

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>> On and on it goes with fishing game. It was an act of Congress to be able to go down the river and remove debris, clean it up. Yeah. >> When we used to do it >> all the time automatically. I haven't lived in towns in very long, but I remember with my father, we were the

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Lions Club, Jamie, getting a canoe, we're going down to do the usual once a year, >> Lions Club, clean up the river for the for the canoe race. >> That so there's there's a lot to that conversation, too, because I don't know if you follow Groten news.

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>> Um, again, very similar. a um GR school has kind of had this standing verbal um I don't want to say order but um condition where because they do um rowing on the natural river they remove

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down walls because of the >> and they tie them up to the size uh for habitat. Um >> that's an accepted practice. >> Well, not anymore. In other words, they're saying debris tile is not an accepted practical.

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See, that's the problem. They're changing the rules and it's making it harder and harder for us to maintain these waterways, riverways, and dams and whatnot. >> No, this is the crux of it. >> No. And the state itself is negligent. >> But so, but part of that is they've

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never had an issue. There's never been any effects that have negatively impacted the river. It's helped keep the river active. It keeps it moving and flowing preventing flooding. >> But because it some one person brought

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it to their attention and then it gets pushed higher and higher and higher up the chain now is a problem. >> Yeah. >> Removing these debris clogs, >> you know, the trussle is just part of it. go all the way around Rossax and through the rest of

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>> I don't know how many logs are blocking the river and it's they're big and they are tangled. >> Yep. >> Um and those logs are causing erosion. Massive massive amounts cutting into the right >> into right into the hill.

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>> It's cutting and that's where we get that silt release. >> And now you're getting silted in >> which is plateauing the river base. Exactly. >> Which is it's pushing it out. It all is a domino effect. >> It's shallowing the river causing problems with fish.

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>> Yeah. >> I I think I'm going to make a motion related to this, but kind of more with studying the river. I I feel that as a commission we need to ask um the native

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fish coalition to come to our meeting to come to a meeting and um and um discuss opportunities for them to help us understand our river and what we can do to improve it. Correct.

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>> Um because there's just so much um that is associated with it's it's all connected, >> right? It is. And from where the river begins in front of my house to where it ends up in the harbor.

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It is not like it was when I was a kid in 1959. Even like when I was a kid in, you know, early >> you could even look at the waterfall in the Harbor Dam >> to see how lower it is than it used to be. >> We we're in we are in the need of doing

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some serious, you know, maintenance on our river between some of the the contaminants down there, the the flow problems, on and on it goes. There's a whole >> but part of so part of discussion >> I don't know if

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>> you might be able to explain it better if he's still awake. >> Um you know the the impact study for Adam's dam might not be a large enough footprint you know to get an accurate interpretation. Yeah,

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if Jim I you know I think and we understood it was just to be a study the concern we had and why we wanted to bring our our concerns to you guys >> is that sometimes these studies become >> kind of they're for ordaining the result and so we did want to participate in

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that and I guess we we are scheduled I'm not sure if you guys are attending but there's a meeting uh Tuesday um at Adams Dam to move things over Um yeah, part of the uh >> the sidewalk

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email came to the sidewalk. Is it >> It just came through. Just Yeah. >> Is it conservation fish? >> Well, I'm surprised that you guys weren't. >> No, no, no. >> I'm surprised I didn't go to Colby. >> Really? >> I didn't see it. It didn't come to my email oration email. >> Yeah. Molly,

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>> so it just hasn't trickled down to you guys yet. >> This is the um I think the engineering firm that's conducting the study called Yeah. So they they proposed they sent out a thing to see when people could meet and this is the date they came up

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with which is uh hang on Tuesday >> Tuesday night >> at Adams >> um >> so who are the particular players that are going to be done the engineering firm that is doing the overview of

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>> the impact study of what if two or two we remove it >> y starting with them >> okay did the I can Copy this little poll as far as who >> one more question. Who owns the dam? Who owns Adams Dam? Is it physically under

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the the control of Townsen >> or is it under the control of Fishing Game? DC. I my recollection is and I'm pretty sure we got the the records for this that in 19 4648

409
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the owners form I think of the former Adams Dam Mill >> dated it to the town for recreational purposes and it's come under our jurisdiction since then as cemetery and parks. Um that's at least the east side. I'm not positive whether the west side

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is included in that. Um >> well the key person that owns the key to the dam is the one that controls the dam. >> So if it's not and whatnot >> it should be in their realm to make the decision to or not to breach it. >> Well no

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so I understand now it's just put it up it's up in the air. Put it that way. I think >> no we should find out just exactly who is the one that controls >> I believe that Kobe >> has you have

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yeah you know I've asked the assessors I've asked commission if they have more information I've looked at the registry of deeds it's not clear >> okay so here we are we're up in west solely by the town >> but there was a town meeting vote in

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1948 dedicated it to recreational purposes and came under jurisdiction at the time. >> You should find out separate parks. >> Who holds the key to the castle? >> The one that holds the key to the castle controls the moat in my opinion.

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>> Well, just like with the the harbor dam that's owned by Hollings and Bo. >> Oh yes, we know that quite well. >> Well, that's the the water rights. >> It is owned by H&B, not the dam. It's the water rights. >> Well, they have the water right, but that means they think they control.

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>> Would that be mass water waste? >> I'm not sure. We're in the middle of doing some study on on that right now. >> Okay. Let's keep one more question. >> Yes, sir. >> What was the scope of the original grant? What were they what were they

416
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requested to study? Do you have a copy of the proposal that I >> assume it's going to have anything to do with flood controls? And there's a multitude of little things that >> Yes. This is what they've completed thus far.

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>> I just wanted to um say I kind of misspoke when I said negative. I meant I meant they failed the three tests, but it was like the E.coli test for the swimming. That's what I meant when I said I said negative, but I meant the three failed tests. I just felt I had to

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clarify that. Um, and I remember us talking about the failed suspect, but I never remembered. >> Yeah, we already we've targeted where >> I know that, but I just feel like we never discussed it again like >> it's outside our

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>> question. Be careful with what we >> Okay. I just wanted to know that. >> Okay. When the dam, the stone dam got hit with lightning, it blew the left side out of the dam and it had to go in there and get repaired. Remember when

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Lee Lawson bulldozed the whole river, closed it up, brought it over to the spillway to the left >> and the Lions Club went in there, did the repair work and paid for it and everything. >> Do you know it came into question who owned

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>> the dam down there? >> Yeah. Do you recall that? >> I don't. I don't. >> I think it it came down. >> When was that? That that had to be >> 40 years ago. >> Oh, no. It was longer than that. >> Yeah. >> It's probably 55 60 years. >> Okay. >> You know,

422
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>> maybe 60. Yeah. It's quite a while ago, but it came under the impression that Delaney's owned that. >> Well, it'd be interesting to see. But yeah, >> I I you know, this this is an outline of tasks that they were going to do in a

423
01:57:50.719 --> 01:58:06.800
schedule of of of tasks. Um but I would like to see, you know, and it seems like they're going to get some of the information that we were looking wanted to look for.

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Um but it would seem to me that uh how far upstream they go would be important to know >> for the for the study. >> Yeah. >> How will the study be completed is what I would like.

425
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>> Right. And then um so I guess we'll know more when we see the results of the study. Yeah. >> Right. So I have some questions. general coordination as ongoing introduced project to partners via email which I

426
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never received as chair um responded with bill ride out regarding and then it got cut off what how's bill tied to this >> I only who should be included in these discussions and

427
01:59:00.639 --> 01:59:17.440
because it's greenways to the trestle. >> So there's your connection with the green ones. >> Part of the study was to do seven above and below the trestle there. >> Okay. Which they can actually use

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01:59:17.440 --> 01:59:33.599
in determining whether or not the trestle is like a tear down or it's a you know it can be fixed up. They're going to have gain information about the above the trione.

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>> Okay. >> So, so do we have an estimated time of completion for the study and and the generation of a report? >> No. >> Um, yeah. Is there a Gant chart of, you know, when things

430
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are planned to be done? I know this has some of it, but >> Yeah. Um, I think they have specific days because they've been working around the weather. >> Okay, that also makes sense, >> right? Right. >> Um, can I please >> can I Well, I'd like to also be added to

431
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monthly email updates. >> Nope. >> So, you kind of feel like you left out sometimes or something. Well, the other thing that I I just want to mention here, if we just look at the title of this, >> but but also like

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>> specifically to study the removal. >> So, in other words, they've already committed. >> They've already removed it. >> It's not. You are as agently quiet. >> There conservation should be in here for

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record. So, it's not even >> Okay. I do have I I agree. We should be >> email is just a paper trail. It allows us to >> everybody should have the next group of go back. Yeah. Right. Right. There have been things that

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>> so in other words everybody should have this CC to each to our commission. We should all be aware of it as much as >> Yes. know that that so no it actually should come to me and then as part of my chair report when I always say I have

435
02:01:14.159 --> 02:01:30.560
nothing I should be able to >> push it into >> and I'm off of that damn st you got to understand as a kid growing up we would dive off the trestle >> it's not like we would jump feet first we'd have Stevie Collins in there where

436
02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:45.440
the big rocks were so we knew where they were so we wouldn't get killed >> that's just we have to have a story don't let me get going, you know. I mean, >> but there are other benefits to the study. KBY pointed out that the trussle,

437
02:01:45.440 --> 02:02:02.320
they will be able to determine if it's structural or it needs to be torn down, rebuilt or however done the rail trail part. So, but what we're looking at, Jim, >> that would be good to get that >> the objective

438
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>> of this grant is to study the removal of the dam and what it was >> pushing a narrative, >> right? >> So, it has a specific focus and objective.

439
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>> Yeah. not about preservation or restoration or repair. >> It's not looking at both sides of the coin. It's just, >> you know, one one direction. >> No, he just said that's correct. >> That is okay.

440
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>> So, um, >> somebody wants it out. >> Well, it's not just that damn though. It's it's >> the Now we're going to go big picture, but I'm not going down. Well, >> that conspiracy >> can see >> and I think it was a surprise for you to

441
02:02:49.360 --> 02:03:03.760
hear that. >> It was It was a shock for us to hear that >> the BFWDM is already in. >> Well, hold on. I got to reel it in. >> You have to hear my thoughts about how it makes jobs. >> How it does

442
02:03:03.760 --> 02:03:22.560
>> makes jobs? No, I'm being sarcastic because we don't mean to make jobs. It's just a way of um >> She's being >> Yes. I'm not used to humor and such like that. >> I want to ask Roger a question. So >> this

443
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don't let me forget. Let him recog. >> Um Roger, this meeting on the site >> on Tuesday he was ahead. >> Was this another one >> is the >> the same one? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> This is being conducted by these people >> by the engineering firm,

444
02:03:39.360 --> 02:03:55.760
>> right? And their sole purpose is to determine the cost to remove the dam. >> Oh, and the benefits. >> And the benefits theoretically a procon study on this. This is this isn't a one-sided. There's

445
02:03:55.760 --> 02:04:13.599
a pros and cons to it. >> It should be as it reads. I wouldn't get nervous as to that. >> Well, I just I I really need to know. >> I agree with where you're going. >> Sounds like it is a one-way study. I'm sorry. To me it does. >> So in this within this whole process um

446
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grind is going through their dam um on the Squan Cook in West Grind. >> West. >> Um >> it's the one in West. >> Yes. Yes. That is >> I feel like there are thumb screws being twisted or whatever to to get towns to

447
02:04:29.040 --> 02:04:44.080
remove their dance. >> It it really it's just >> so um Mary Jane not ignoring it. Um, >> so it again and they're looking at repairing the dam or removing it because of everything. Um,

448
02:04:44.080 --> 02:04:59.920
>> and that's a repable dam now, >> but there's other benefits to keeping it. So, >> but it goes further. The VFW does not have impact on the squan river, but they're on to this removing dams thing

449
02:04:59.920 --> 02:05:16.320
>> program and they've got to understand >> they've identified it. They they've taken a lot away from from the US in West Towns and with that being removed, right? hyperbole. No, >> I knew you were going to say

450
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>> the big question is what's motivating this >> goate. I want to say one other thing but Mary had her hand up >> question comment introduce yourself you know the >> Mary Jane church fell 292 Main Street

451
02:05:34.880 --> 02:05:50.320
resident speaking as a resident specifically I have actually gone on the website and I've looked up this project and I agree 1,000% with what um Mr. Varian said tonight >> what website and

452
02:05:50.320 --> 02:06:06.080
>> if you go on deer >> okay and it specifically point um says Adam's dam or the >> initiative say Adam's dam it's the initiative it it's the the pitch if you will for the grant and I do think after listening to what you had earlier with

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02:06:06.080 --> 02:06:21.360
the rail trail guys or the >> pro >> I think the river should be cleaned up you have people who will clean it up if you ask them, I think as a trail, as a water trail. And I think that those

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resources should be looked at before we start to give away the ranch because when I see grant connected with towns and I get a little nervous. >> When you see what >> the word grant connected with the town of Townsen, I get a little nervous

455
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because what I see with a lot of the grants we get, the sustaining aspect is not there. And that makes me nervous. Mhm. >> Um there'll be another taxpayers burden. >> Cindy, I see you. Not um we'll get to you next. No, no, you can keep going. I just want to make sure.

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>> Sorry, >> no. Well, that was pretty much it. That I just want to let you know that what you had presented is 100% accurate and what you've mentioned about the removal of the Dan study. It's this syntax and

457
02:07:08.079 --> 02:07:24.639
the semantics that you got to look at because what you mentioned was it's a one-way study and it's for a grant for what you know what happens after the grant comes in. >> That's true. >> And our >> it's an assessment. That's what

458
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>> No, I understand that. But I think we should be assessing the river for the use of the river. >> If we're going to pay for anything, we're going to be involved in a grant. We should be cleaning up that river and we should be talking to those. >> Okay.

459
02:07:41.119 --> 02:07:56.079
>> All right. That's >> So I thank you. Um your point is valid, too. Um I also made a motion about getting the Native Fish Coalition down here. We did we vote that? Did you get that?

460
02:07:56.079 --> 02:08:12.000
>> No. >> Can I redo the motion? that native fish co we contact native fish coalition come down and discuss opportunities to >> um you know look at our river

461
02:08:12.000 --> 02:08:27.760
>> I second that >> go for in other words an assessment of the river health >> assessment >> to to see >> what they can recommend as >> for on the fish side >> right >> okay so cold water fishery >> I second it >> I think was that your first second

462
02:08:27.760 --> 02:08:43.520
>> yes I tonight. That's your first you have anything you want to add just your sense >> just after talking to of the fish coalition >> is your sense is is that he is sort of

463
02:08:43.520 --> 02:09:00.639
on the side of damn removal or no >> no he's not >> I don't know what side he's on I've had >> two email interactions but in terms of dam removal no damn removal cleaning up the river sedimentation.

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There's a stretch of the river that is unusable, >> healthy >> and and becoming unhealthy. It's not dead yet. >> Well, I'm all for getting as many opinions as we can. We have this opinion

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and I personally think that every uh idea, every conclusion we have is a balance between logic and emotion. some of the things that were expressed here kind of fall into the emotional historical thing and that there's clearly some logic of the CO2 and all

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02:09:32.000 --> 02:09:48.800
that. So, I want to get everyone's opinion and then I'll decide for myself. I want to keep an open mind. >> I don't want to I don't want to fix it if it broke. >> Are you for um having an outside nonprofit come to a meeting to discuss

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02:09:48.800 --> 02:10:04.560
>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. >> Okay. So, Ro's going to start with you. Mike Pod says yes. >> James Drawn. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Sandra Lloyd. Yes. >> We And if you we can invite you to that again. We're not done discussing this topic. Cindy, you had your hand up.

468
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>> Yes. Um I want to, you know, take us back to the conversation about the when we when we were all out there on the river doing the cleanup. I was out there with you guys with my kayak when, you know, some of everybody was chainsawing some of the debris in the river. And I

469
02:10:19.360 --> 02:10:35.119
know I went to the meeting eight years, nine years ago. >> It's like nine. It was running. >> It was like 2017. I was on the board of Sluckman then. Um but we went I mean we did a lot of that was a great job we all did and I went to the meetings

470
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beforehand and um I think something happened in there. Um, we were given all the presentations in advance that there was all this approval and I remember after we were all done having a conversation with Karen Hill and we got

471
02:10:50.560 --> 02:11:07.760
the town got in trouble for that because there was somebody that did not approve and was supposed to be on the approving and or or there was some misunderstanding about what we had gotten the permits to do. So that's why there was there hasn't been there was no

472
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followup on any further cleanup. In addition, after that we did the cleanup, that's when the wild and scenic designation came up on the Squan Cook, which made the NRWA the custodian of that. And I believe that that

473
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designation has also removed whatever uh ability we would have to go into the river. I I because of wildlife that lives within the river and all the salamanders and whoever's in there that

474
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>> whatever's in there. But we I think that that the these are reasons why we can't go in there and make any disturbing especi even even though there's trees down and we've caused a tangled mess. Um I think that there are serious restrictions um on us to go out in that river and

475
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even the work that we did you know after the fact I was told that by Karen who was involved she was kind of direct in the whole thing that >> but um I can't I didn't hear that but but um that there was some push back

476
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from whatever state agency was involved with allegedly u approving the work that we did and whatever we did it was more than we were supposed to or we weren't supposed to do it at all. I don't remember. But um >> I heard a similar thing but without actual

477
02:12:30.560 --> 02:12:46.159
facts. >> What they got down to >> I think it needs to be talked about more. So natural river watershed uh we need they need to be part of this conversation as well, >> right? >> They need to come to the table. >> Just to circle back to what I was trying to say.

478
02:12:46.159 --> 02:13:01.760
>> Nothing about the BFW though. No, it's just a I just talked to the Stewart recently. That's why it's on my mind. But the whole thing with cleaning up the river when we did it with the Lions Club, it was like, of course, Lions Club, you guys are all set.

479
02:13:01.760 --> 02:13:18.000
Go and be careful. Don't sink any. And we would keep it clean. We would do it as kids >> going down there in our inner tubes. It was just a natural. >> Now we're at a point in time where it is like you got to go. We went through so

480
02:13:18.000 --> 02:13:34.960
many approvals. We had to have spotters down there. We had to have somebody down there o overviewing our habit. Oh, no. No. You can't take that across there cuz that's where the bobcats walk across the river. And it turned into so much restriction.

481
02:13:34.960 --> 02:13:53.040
They Oh, when you run the chainsaws, you have to have vegetable oil in there and you can't get oil on it. And it >> it was I understood all of that. What I'm saying is that we've created such a hardship to do >> easy simple things. It's impossible.

482
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>> It's it's I've seen firsthand impact that has affect the land that my in-laws own. Rogers dealt with uh m a lot of erosion um along Adam's the slope on Adam's den >> to try to mitigate

483
02:14:09.440 --> 02:14:26.000
>> try to restore it. Yep. Um and prevent it and >> well there was grant money that you guys rolled that >> material bottles and you know all this stuff and um and then Nashville River water uh shed came in and put some

484
02:14:26.000 --> 02:14:42.000
saplings in. >> I think there was like a hund of them that they planted in that bank. >> Yeah. I remember going water because it was so dry. >> Yeah. >> She puts in like >> Yeah, the waddles and Yeah. steps. >> Getting back to uh Mary Jane Churchill's

485
02:14:42.000 --> 02:14:59.840
comments here. So, I see this is an initial preliminary study that's probably going to generate another gen another study based on this same objective.

486
02:14:59.840 --> 02:15:16.079
I think before we proceed with continuing another grant for further study on this particular grant >> or the DM specific >> that we look at alternative grants

487
02:15:16.079 --> 02:15:34.400
for cleaning up the river and these other topics before this grant advances to another one for the same objective >> which ultimately we as commission voted to give Kobe um the okay to go ahead

488
02:15:34.400 --> 02:15:49.920
with this >> grant application. >> Yes. >> Just to give a little history. Mike, you you making your >> Oh, no. I'm I'm just >> We can go around and around and I agree that you know, but we I'm curious to see

489
02:15:49.920 --> 02:16:06.719
what they say on Tuesday. That's that's >> Tuesday going to be really point >> I want to see who the players are. I want to have a better understanding who's looking to remove it, how they're going to do it, why they want to do it, >> talk to us. Makes sense. >> Well, and that's part of the whole

490
02:16:06.719 --> 02:16:22.560
thing. And we can it kill us after this is completed. >> I was trying to keep an open mind with the study. However, the more and more I thought about it that I do feel it's like that one way. >> Oh, no, no, we've already established that. >> Yeah. No, but I'm just saying I didn't

491
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>> but allowing to to utilize this data that's being collected for also the rail trail. >> Yeah. >> Um there is there will be at least benefit to that. >> Well, we'll have some benefit from it, you know. U >> but as John you add your hand.

492
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>> Yeah, Jim. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I I just wanted to I don't want to keep you guys here all night. I just wanted to just say I just want to commend I just want to commend Kobe. Um, I understand that you guys were looking into this. He I think he probably found the grant and

493
02:16:53.840 --> 02:17:08.559
>> No, they come they came. >> They came to us. They asked about Canal Street 2 before. >> Okay. Okay. >> Oh, really? >> Well, >> I took care that one came to me. I said, "No, that'd be stupid to do because that there's a lot of flood control there." >> Yeah. Yeah. But I just wanted to thank

494
02:17:08.559 --> 02:17:24.800
Colby for walking into the lion's den. He came to present this to us at our meeting quite frankly back in August. I think he was shocked and uh we probably um >> uh it was not a case of shooting the messenger but um he got a warm reception on it and truth

495
02:17:24.800 --> 02:17:39.599
>> and again there is an emotional element to it as as Mike said uh but I I think for me apart from the emotion it's also the practical >> need for recreational areas and natural >> natural swimming holes.

496
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Kobe did mention he was growled at a little bit by the guys, but we got >> it was totally emotional. >> A lot of players to our river and they keep telling us we got to protect it. We got to protect it, but we also have to be able to enjoy it.

497
02:17:56.080 --> 02:18:10.160
>> Right now, >> we got to be able to protect it. >> Allow us to feel a lot, right? >> And that's a great resource for this town. >> Yes, >> it is. We used to enjoy canoeing. >> I know

498
02:18:10.160 --> 02:18:26.800
>> you cannot canoe now. You'd have to get out. >> I work for the newspaper. >> Jimmy, how many times did you have to get out of your canoe to get from west town? >> I never had >> somebody mentioned school. >> How was that maintained? So they can do

499
02:18:26.800 --> 02:18:41.599
that. >> Well, now they have to go through a formal process of annually to be able to clear down logs and trees. That's on the natural though, right? >> Yes. >> Correct. Yeah, >> because they do the wrong >> again. They're doing it in a manner that isn't damaging the environment. They've

500
02:18:41.599 --> 02:18:57.359
done it the same way for from what I read in the newspaper decades. >> Yeah. >> It was always a standing verbal, >> you know, this is what we're going to do and we're going to >> and you know for sure they've abolished lashing and tying gang time for

501
02:18:57.359 --> 02:19:13.040
>> this is based on the newspaper article. >> Any anytime something works well and there's really it it does a good job. No, no, We got to change it and we No, we can't do that anymore. Ah, >> so but we appreciate there's a lot of

502
02:19:13.040 --> 02:19:27.679
collaboration that I feel that has not been happening within our town's departments, our town's commissions, our town's boards. >> And tonight we were able to bring a lot of outside people together, a lot of internal towns people together in

503
02:19:27.679 --> 02:19:44.479
hearing about the CPA um board is is promising. And that's something that I know Bill Ryo fought for years um and it it just does it makes sense at least to me um in my opinion uh because it

504
02:19:44.479 --> 02:20:01.840
provides funding for projects that make a difference to the community. Um and I know Sandra was hesitant to um join or as our representative. No, >> but I feel that

505
02:20:01.840 --> 02:20:20.160
um you believe in why we're doing or why that was >> Well, if you're going to have funds available there, I I want to help promote it, you know, >> keeps our money in our town. M um but yeah the this sort of stuff is

506
02:20:20.160 --> 02:20:37.439
>> well I think generally we should establish some goals that we're trying to work towards and um >> and I was part of the open space and rec uh committee and Mary Jane was and a lot of these things were discussed but they

507
02:20:37.439 --> 02:20:53.040
were also discussed at the previous um rendition of the plan >> and kind of rolled program. >> Some of it has, but it was also great to see the things that had come to fruition like the rail trail that took 20 years

508
02:20:53.040 --> 02:21:09.040
of hard work. And I I try to tell the trails guys, >> um, >> this isn't you're not going to just do this. You're going to have to push and push and push and it will make sense if it makes sense. It just takes time. And I I've I've only been doing the

509
02:21:09.040 --> 02:21:24.720
commission. I've been on the commission five years. And there's times where it's two steps forward, three steps back. But we really try hard as a commission to run a tight ship. Sometimes we be we have story time. But

510
02:21:24.720 --> 02:21:42.600
there are the stories, >> but they're important because it makes everyone remember why our town is >> what it is. down. Do >> you remember the Lions Club going down cleaning the river for the annual canoe race? >> I remember swimming lessons at the BFW.

511
02:21:42.880 --> 02:21:59.920
>> I taught swimming lessons with my uncle. Swimming lesson. Those were my first jobs I got. And then I got a job at Fort Deans as a life guy. >> Well, the biggest problem was where were we going to go and meet to go swimming?

512
02:21:59.920 --> 02:22:15.439
>> Yeah. My kids had three lessons at Pearl. >> Before this ends, I just want to make it clear that my comment on logic and emotion >> applies to them as well. I mean, they're this is their job. So, they got they have an agenda. They have some, you know, emotion to it, too.

513
02:22:15.439 --> 02:22:32.240
>> Yeah. So, fish and the fish alliance, they have a >> I just feel you have to take it all in >> and decide for yourself. And I said before, weigh it. >> I don't want to fix it. I don't want to change it if it's not broken. If it's

514
02:22:32.240 --> 02:22:50.479
okay, then, you know, my my my pre uh evaluation bent is probably not to remove it, but I'm not I'm not sure. >> I I look at a practical standpoint.

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You're going to have to bring in some big equipment to get, >> you know, to remove it. >> Yeah. And it would be that would be a So Colby I know you >> I know these are long days for you man. Yeah,

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>> you can speak. I'm sorry >> your hand wasn't raised. >> You know, I ask you to keep an open mind for all aspects of it. build my science and engineering

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uh information that you get out of the survey and um assessment >> or I understand I realize what a connection people have with the area here. Um

518
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and I uh so I understand how emotionally connected um people are but uh looking at the data and the facts versus keep an open mind >> um >> it's tough to ignore the emotional

519
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connection how many times we camp out at Rock how many times I mean on and on I know >> well Jim if I might we'll have to have a different session maybe not a official meeting. We can all regail people about our stories of right

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>> the squanica fishing swimming and >> and uh what we did >> and I was a west town kid so I had to be invited basically to go to the center >> to the hers I didn't dream of going up >> that was our habitats we were the hets we always

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called you guys the habitat and again I want to I think having your commission here tonight with the trail alliance in a group that um are trying they we all have the same goals um in to be able to

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all work together um for really a common >> Yep. >> uh thing. >> This is very wholesome and thank you. >> Thank you guys. >> It was Don't forget to during your meeting. Oh, that's right. Okay. So, I

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think we've consumed enough of of conservation commission's time and we do appreciate you guys. >> Uh, I think uh we've pretty much exhausted the topic for tonight and I'd look for a motion to cement park to adjurnn. >> I so for a motion to the

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uh cemetery pass commission uh adjourn. >> Okay. Uh I'll second and all in favor >> I >> I 932. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> You are dissolved. Thank you. >> Thank you. Absolutely. We appreciate it all.

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>> And since we're dissolved, I just saw this on the the board and I on your desk, your table. I don't know if you guys had this, but >> Oh, I got that from downstairs. >> Downstairs. We're we we're trying to put on a celebration of of America's 250th birthday this year with a parade on June

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20th, old home day, >> time capsule. It's your capsule. >> So, anything that the conservation commission wants to do to participate, you're more than welcome. And you can get more information at town250.org >> pictures of the swimming.

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>> This meeting right here broke bread. >> This is a big deal. >> I'm intrigued by this pat. And if this was actually we would go to >> Yeah. You can access Hill Road, >> right?

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>> Or South Road. near S. >> Oh, that bridge. >> Yes, >> the old bridge that went out the bridge we try to put back. >> Yeah, >> right. That's one bill right outside. >> You could access it from both sides. We

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used to come side before we would go through Sanderson. >> We're Sanderson. >> If it was washed away in 38, >> that was the old bridge. >> The old bridge. >> Well, actually, >> he's older than he looked.

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>> When we went for that sitewalk, we could still see signs of the old bridge in there. >> Yeah. The abupments are still >> The abupments were still in there. >> You went to the sitewalk. I >> I went to that with fishing game and everything. And another thing that was mentioned to me, if they were to remove

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the trestles, there's there's a pro and a con to it. >> Well, so they're a journ. I don't want to get >> doesn't matter. I'm just telling them a little fact. >> We're not going to deliberate. >> I was talking to somebody in Fitford that does their rail trail. They just got a big bridge in blah blah blah. But when they remove if they were to remove

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those trestles that would just stop all that jamming of material because that's where the big jam-ups happen >> on the trestle areas. >> They would do a span bridge like Jimmy. It would not be pounded peers in it like

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>> they will not restrict water flow. Right. >> So there's a pro and a con to those staying or leaving. >> You get the one up by west cemetery by Riverside. Well, and if you look at the on the back side of that cemetery, >> well, they're being eaten away.

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>> And in terms of >> Yes. big time. >> In terms of the town, you know, I mean, what I saw and what you saw with the flood plane review >> is if we don't do something with these

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rivers, it's just going to get worse. And >> well, and they ask for input, but what input can we give them that they'll take and use? you know, they they've used their computer modeling to determine it, but it's really boots on the ground.

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>> You know, you knew about the water coming through the hill at Swan Cookook Meadows. >> Oh, yeah. Because the water table when got high, >> you know, and they finally included it. >> Yeah. >> In other words, that flood plane area goes way down almost to the to almost to

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the forefront now. >> Never reached that far. And that was just updated. >> No, >> I'm going to say there's a lot of overreach. The people who live in Townsen know Townsen intimately, >> right? But >> you know,

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>> and that's not how I mean have people from the state or whatever tell us, >> but as we are for enforcement's an example, the state, we are the first line of defense. we need to go through our due process in

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order to >> to enforce something. And if the state >> um gets involved early, they they look back at us and they'll say, "What's going on?" We'll get a phone call. What's going on there? Why are we getting a why are we getting a call?

540
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Have you done everything you got? >> Oh, you haven't you haven't? Yeah, you got to do you have steps you have to follow >> and then they'll get involved. But the state tries to allow the towns to make decisions. We have the ultimate decision

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for notice of intents, RDAs. And if the state sees something in in question, they will, you know, >> right? >> Well, if they were to >> decide the town would have to decide whether it'll be removed or not. Is that

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correct? >> In regards to flood planes, >> dam >> or the Oh, the dam. Um, yes, it would have to go to town, >> right? And you'd have to issue a certificate for them to do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, it it

543
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>> it would have to go to town town. >> We can't as a conservation commission, we can't hold up projects lawfully. If it's a lawful product, we have to by law >> I know issue >> if they process we can put

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>> what we're going in circles. Okay. >> Yeah, we can't anyway. You guys >> appcate. >> No, we got a little bit more to go. I told I told I told I don't have it broke down. I'm not going to do this for the

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rest of my life. >> Fun. >> It's enjoyable. >> No one else, >> you know. Thank you guysent. >> Thank you. We'll see you. >> So close. >> Yeah. I'll get that email to you, Robert. We're going to open up

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storage. >> We touched upon it right before they >> it's in process. But um in charge it's going to be discussed. >> Did they do that

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>> at the next meeting after that? >> It's not what you wish. >> Okay. >> So it's >> is it taking up that much daily Monday through Friday? >> Well, I know

548
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you go over there and show the place. right before you came in. >> Well, that's all right. As long as it's still >> showing, you know, you did your agent report. She was asking about >> and I explained to her you

549
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>> was just Yeah, but it was just me. >> It literally five minutes. >> Okay. All right, charge one of the things. >> Thank you. >> 75 and 80s all done. >> Before Kobe melts down and I appreciate

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>> I know, man. >> You got to understand we broke bread with a bunch of groups tonight, which >> it was awesome. It was really awesome. >> I know as as >> did you know any of those?

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I want to make sure he feels acknowled. >> Thank you, Kobe. Because >> nothing's easy and >> you are the glue that holds us together. >> That's for sure. >> What does he got to come my Look at that

552
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head of hair. He's got Look at that. >> You don't think I >> I'm envious when I look over there. >> I would I would chop all those years in the army. There was a benefit.

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>> I was broke, but I got my hair. >> Um, >> well, general stated >> because of some computer issues, our meeting minutes for 128 and 211 2026 are going to be um reviewed and approved at the next meeting. >> Okay. >> Um,

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education conference 5.1. Um the towns and town clerk's office is pleased to host the mass state ethics commission's >> Yeah. When is that again? >> Education division for a 90minut seminar

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on the mass uh conflict of interest law >> GL uh general law chapter 268A. This free training session is open to mutual employees, board, and committee members, special district officials, and staff from surrounding communities to be held

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at town hall April 21st, 2026. 10 to 11:30 a.m. >> 10 to 11:30. >> Yes. >> I told Jack that um I was probably going to go because I asked some tomir the date, confirm the date and time. is

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there. I said I said you have to sign up for No, I got it. You're right. >> Oh, >> hi Lori. >> 10 to 11:30. >> I'm patient. That's okay.

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>> Um, I just wanted to thank you all. I just listened to this meeting. I understand a long meeting and getting a headache. So, Colby, thank you for being patient with everybody that was there tonight. I think there were many good comments made and I give you all a lot

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of credit for what you have volunteered to the town. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Lori. >> Lori, um, is is there any way you're going to help us out with Scooby snacks at the meetings? >> No. >> We don't have anybody here to do it

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anymore. >> You don't have enough candy? >> No. stick through it. It's not going to be bad. >> Okay, I'm sorry to hear that. The next time I attend, I'll be happy to bring some. >> Okay, we appreciate that. Maybe we should have a town meeting warrant

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article for >> Scooby snacks. >> Pick a mandatory. >> Uh, see, we do long meetings, too. Wasn't our last meeting? We made it to 10. >> Yeah, we're so close to 410.

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>> I was at that one as well. You guys had to start your meetings even earlier. Get them all done. >> 4:00 yesterday until 10. >> No, you guys went 4:00 till 10. >> Yes.

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>> And that's why I probably will never run for select board. >> You guys tell that >> you guys tell a lot of stories or something and you don't get >> Yeah. We have nothing else to do but to spend our time in town hall. >> Um, so our next meeting is 4:226.

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>> Okay. >> Um, 42. >> I make a motion to adjourn at 9:44. >> Second. >> You have to make the motion. I second it. >> No, I made the motion. >> Oh, >> and he seconded before I could even

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finish. I knew you were looking at it. I was just going to say he cut you off. >> I'm not letting >> roll call vote starting. >> Yes. >> James, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> Sandra Wood, yes. Yes. >> Thank you everyone.

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>> Thanks, Colobe. Thank you, Colby.