##VIDEO ID:OgyZZBr_30s## like to call to order the um towns and Conservation Commission meeting for Wednesday November 13th 2024 7 7:04 PM can I have a roll call please no we have a new member does that mean we we changed the rotation second line Michael pot said Jim James Jo present I didn't know we had a tradition bre you we're all over that okay James Gates Kevin SMI and P yeah still G to do the pledge alance all right just as long as everything stays the same pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republ for which it stands one nation under God indivisible for liberty justice for all this meeting is being recorded is anyone else recording get sorry um Chairman's additions Andor deletions I do not have any uh chair report uh we had a handful of um departmental uh sign offs for building permits pull it up right now um one was off of blood Road and that will requireed permit um because of the brook B Hill Brook but then there's another one that did not have any um you know number blood no I can't off hand okay myem loing review and approve meeting minutes from 1023 24 as everyone had a chance to review I didn't notice anything make a motion I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes of 1023 24 I'll second that roll call vote please is that yes or no oh yes James B yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes no staff report um sta report B well actually I'll R back to the chair report we have the draw position has been posted um and there has been several applicants um I do not I've have not seen any of the any applications appliations yet 16 of them supposedly for land use no for conservation for the time being more 16 yeah but I don't I haven't seen them so I don't we got we got the lovely sub in the meantime so she's in for a little while picking helping out while Jess is out yes until we have an agent okay thank you the internet always terrible all right my phone um [Applause] because we don't our first until 7:15 is that this is something else um so we're move down to 4.1 chap um chapter 61b notification for 27 bar Road um parcel IDE is 17-10 D1 own is Virginia F Welch your to Dear board please be advised that I represent the estate of Virginia F Welch who was the surviving owner of the parcel sold the lot where the home exist in intents on selling the two remaining parcels and removing all the land from chapter 61b classification while we are unsure of the actual proposed use of the vacant Lots upon the sales seller does anticipate that it is for the construction of a single family residence I attaching this to this letter of attent the executed purchase and sale agreement which I certify is true and accurate copy the assessor map show which shows this parcel and its aage as assessed um so see I can understand this is already yes but the time right but that's not anything to do with us so this 278 pzle was it's number 27 27 B all right so it's present land use is in what 61b yes which is forestry yes manage Woodland which would be they have to primarily how it works is they have to offer it to the town if it's been in current use um if they're going to sell it this was the question I was going to because we have first refusal the town would have first refusal I'm not sure why it came before G usually go s it's a notification it's a cc process notifying us can you give me a number on the acreage Jimmy are you looking at that now yeah so lot one is 2.42 lot 2.2 what yeah 2.42 is lot one lot two of the houses is 3.65 lot three is [Music] 4.58 but it was it's considered one lot presently this is all been these are the numbers of what it's been subdivided to well it would have to be five acres for it to be able to beult correct that's why I wanted to know so it's almost 10 and a half chis because you have to take the hustle out of that that's 3 AC zoning up there I believe so that would leave the remaining land that was large enough to put it into classification I think that's a a field they're doing it yeah field right there yeah so nothing for us here no more questions I saw the way it went on the west property which was interesting so 4.58 acre lot went for $20,000 12242 acre lot just going 420,000 so on and so forth with them all three no there a house on one oh those in exist that does not include the house one when was the last time the town of towns ever acted on first refusal on a piece of Agriculture property being sold I don't know I don't know that I served on the properties committee for 25 years by the way was reasonable but that is the old lenen property though Paul's Sabrina looking for the plan for the other okay I'll go look in the box did you look in the box did you find the Box no mon yourselves what yeah for and both those plants for same job they look like for right both those PL the same job yeah yeah you want one no no I can see it right there when he puts it up looking for one you good evening Linda nice to see you on thanks good to see you guys all right 77 153 wall Road twb 20241 192 DP number 308 d716 settlement from LLC representative is Hanigan engineering uh project status installation of a driveway crossing over an intermittent stream and an access driveway and horse padic within the 100t buffer of ordering vegetated weets good evening Mr this is a continuation from our last meeting correct record so for the commission a few Mees ago uh there's a couple comments and clarifications that were requested uh some of the changes and additions that we provide to the plan are the relocation of an existing manure storage area it's currently within the 100 foot buffer zone uh we relocated that to be located behind the existing Barn structure which is about 300 feet probably uh yeah about 300 feet or so great uh it's now located outside the Wetland buer zones and is actually um downg gradient but the Wetland flows the other direction so we're well away from any direct connection to the Wetland itself um additional um Provisions that made we did do an existing as built of the L clearing that was done as part of the forry project uh that was done a couple years ago uh so that has now reflected on the plan um and we're also now showing the limits of the padic areas for the horses within the actual cleared area we're showing the Outer Perimeter with the interior configuration of it of the padic being determined um around the entire site we'll be installing a line of or Sil fence uh promptly followed by 5 foot wide 1 foot 18inch tall mul stump R firm that'll be utilized as the primary means of Ro control and will remain in place and allow to natur degrade in situe till it's back to Earth um additionally we have shown the extension of the gravel driveway ex and into the center of the site will have a 80ft diameter circle uh diameter turnaround area for uh vehicles to come in and out as necessary as well as uh including a water spot uh that'll be effectively attached to the side of the crossing as it goes over with a flushing valve on so that during the winter operations it can be flush so it doesn't freeze on um that being said the crossing has remained uh unchanged all stream Crossing standards uh we chose the smallest location uh for the crossing itself for obvious reasons in order to minimize the crossing and we are proposing to uh replicate um the Wetland location at the existing logging Crossing effectively haul out all the stump grindings uh bring back down to Natural grade any areas that are void of enough uh wet and soils will be augmented with wet and soil mix and the are will be uh seated with the Wetland c miix as well uh that being said is any questions from the commission more happy answer them looks like a great appreciate the um moving of the Manu from that W area that was good that's helpful very proactive looks good you a nice Wide Circle at the end for the goose neack horse trailers and uh pick up trucks with the ladies that sometimes need to swing why looks nice careful you know what's in it's a we're showing the New England's specialty C Mix so it's just generic blend of various plants and stuff like that what the it's New England Wetland plants New England wet Mi this miix that we used on various other projects L of stuff the log is back out with too when they get done logging and throw out chip they'll back out with there's a handful of different know from NE wine mix to goats andas did National Heritage in on this don't believe so CU on the Parry cutting plan they they did see anything from natural heritage did you I [Music] don't because that's a rarity for them not to make comment or try in on especially if they did with just the loging right the right and the padic is going to be in the within the area that was yes it was within the clear area um did you read this first I did that one this is from the car stre cutting plant national heritages response for The Bling Turtle thing yes yeah so you what you did read it I'm I perused it very quickly okay I was looking more at the forry component then to make sure that it was done appropriately and that particular turtle was mentioned because and they listed it as a take so I want to make sure so September to show mic natural fishing no front articles to what you want to read but you did not receive any correspondence from natural one what was just submitted wondering if it was submitted appropriately if what if natural heritage got a copy of the noce SP right because for them not to chime in it falls to the a [Music] rarity and I would suppose no because it's been stated as habitat yes it was stated as a take so yeah that's got to be looked and everything meets the Massachusetts storm water management standards that was also the another comment from D that one yeah we're installing the there's really no impervious area that's created as part of the project take so by installing the burm it does allow for that retardation afterm man did they receive updated copy of your plan they did get your plan and everything the an to Natural no we're talking d right I okay sorry I'm asking it's natural heritage needs to if they got a copy of the noi I assume that starts everything here outside their jurisdiction because the their jurisdiction if you will was in the logging area yeah so as part of the logging area it went past this initial finger of wetland if you will okay so based on mgis the wet or the natural heritage area comes half way through here it was slightly clip through here just which is outside of construction anywhere yes it would be outside constru construction area and that's round about where the totally outside totally outside the construction area by a fair distance yep and I can show the commission members GIS just to so that would you assume that's why they didn't chime in I think that's why we didn't submit to them it's because we're outside of their area I can show you yeah yes like yeah if you don't mind it just FS the corner so you can see the yellow area there natural heritage that's the property itself so it's mostly on the Far Eastern side and it kind of clips about halfway through the Little J in the property line coming through here we have property line yeah hits about the midpoint where the jog is and then it doesn't show it on the plan unforunately and then extends through and runs around the Eastern proper l so it's it's completely out of where we are I just want to make sure oh that's a eye we can't miss yeah I don't need another thing right now um so I have all of the requirements of the comments and yes we'll get there we'll get there so the stor first one of the major first comments relative to D is uh storm water management because there is a single family house on the property but there is commercial components of the property so it does kind of fall under that gray area of storm water management um there's really no impervious area being developed as part of the projects uh the gravel is a pseudo impervious State it's not going to be doesn't generate runoff as typical of other developments like a parking water anything like that uh so stor Water Management relies heavily on cious areas part of that calculation um so there's really no impervious and the burm that we're placing around everything is going to stay intact for the entirety of its life if you will uh so that would create a natural retardation factor for the flows coming off the site uh currently it is a brush mixture we're going to a grass mixture so the r coefficients are pretty similar to one another uh so that's um one of the first major comments and the second one is relative the forest cutting plan was making sure that everything was done on the up and up with the forestry plan um provided the for cutting plane that was signed off uh last month by the DCR W in this area so everything's been done per plan and the third comment was relative to the commission confirming the absence of Fringe BBW and the location ofos Crossing when we were there it's pretty about as cut D you can get for wetland nice deep ravine Wetland contained entirely within the channel so there's really no other Wetland area per se with the area of the Cross was yeah it was it was Port stream yeah right you know it told the tale with the scouring Etc and then you have replication area um that they noted the access um secondary Hall not shown on the approved FCP verify that all resources area impacts not approved as part of the FCP will be restored or permited under this filing which you have so the only alteration that was trly performed was that initial Crossing into the forestry area which we're intending on restoring where they they Crossing you mean you're going to restore that area yes take out that existing zipper area clean it up drop it down put some seed in done moving forward well yeah and they going to use mix and yeah all understood I just was not didn't know it was under our taking and you quiet I'm just listening I know do you have anything else anything you want to add no I I I think it looks great and what they plan to do and and everything so I'm for it here we go Mike I know this is your first yeah being new I I just listen and I think it seems fine to me from what the comments you have made and but basically I think for a while I'm going to be deferring to um your judgment and it'll help me make mine did you did you go to the work up there yeah you were there yeah you don't have to vote either if you're not comfortable yet until you get your would be is there anything that you see that you are curious of and you have a question too well I mean the nature of the the bridge was described in a way that makes me confident that it conforms to whatever regulations it should conform to he can give you a full breakdown of the bridge the concrete thicknesses sides walls how it's stacked how it's keyed so probably not necessary though if you want to rund down on how well no I just it's one of those areas where I you know over time I'll learn the jargon and the construction techniques and all that stuff but right now it's yeah with the mulch bur usually what we do is we'll key it in a little bit six Ines just so it doesn't move around too too much so what do you mean you're blocking block it a little bit but you put it you sink it down like you do with water you yeah it's 18 in tall 5T wide at the top doesn't never want to go anyway he's trying to do a good job no I know can I all your stumping you're going to be grinding all your stumps at your pull yeah it's a nice process around it oh it's bulletproof fail it's just bulletproof let's reframe for using words like bulletproofly correct you know the only one that always isn't I see l square bales move I've seen wi back Bing b so yeah especially with the storms of lster yeah lemonster was but you also look down south where they had in Appalachia where they had the hurricane come through nothing mattered to them the you could design for that could have designed what you what happened in l nope cannot do that so I I think this is a robust plan and um I don't have any other I I it's great plan absolutely car let's get the holy water are you going to try to complete this over the winter uh yeah that's the idea if I see the opportunity if the weather holds stays dry the idea would be if we go after doing the Crossing in the bridge I'm going to watch the weather if I can know I can get it stop to finish and finish it then I'll do it but I'm not gonna me finger nice proactive luy with the Dr cross right right perfect time perfect time yeah yeah um so I'll make a motion to or before I say anything does anyone feel that there should be any special conditions no I don't think so yeah I don't looks great job just theming appeasing the manuver maneuver they they've done a great job and just to be proactive that'll be the first thing we do is move that we get that done get that I like this guy I knew I would too this is great make a motion second I'll make a motion to issue a order of conditions for 153 wall Road twb 20241 192 D 30807 six with a standard order of conditions with attachment a second good Kevin second roll call vote Mich PO said yes James cin yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes Pat J yes thank you so very much for your time thank you gentlemen thank you then I'll make a motion to close the hearing or for the notice onent 153 walls last year we can go work all [Music] winter not in the ground just got done planting so you don't have anything for sale everything is sold out this year every B okay I was told to ask attorney plants garlic he's like I need garlic B couldn't find any tell next year I'll have whatever all right thank you thank you thank you I make motion to close the hearing for noce 153 wall Road twb 20241 19-1 192 DP number 3087 second roll call vote today kid said yes James C yes James G yes Kevin Smith yes yeah g [Applause] is person all right [Applause] agree hi Dave he moving on to 2.2 is 741 notice inent One Brown Road twb 20241 96308 0718 make a motion to open the hearing for this second call vote Michael pot said yes jamesan yes James yesc are you obing sit in the crowd thank you Mr chair um puru to the Massachusetts WPA and towns and Wetland bylaw the towns and Conservation Commission will hold the public hearing on Wednesday November 13 2024 at approximately 7:35 p.m. the hearing will be held virtually via Zoom meeting in inperson at Town Hall on an noi filed with the fcom by Brad Han the property is located at one Brown Road s through map 36 partial 31 lot one the proposed project is for construction of an addition in Deb to an existing single family house part of the construction will take place within the 100 feet of bordering vegetated Wetlands parties wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or in writing prior to the meeting copies of the application are available for review at Town Hall during business hours um certified [Applause] quickly cards streer y fish G trustees West West radi trust yes yeso Kimberly yes Linda ma yes protection d That's a d notification George Park yes trusty yes and National Heritage and Y done this what you looking [Applause] [Applause] for right um that's Now comments yeah you want to read them yeah Crossman is here representing the applicant um you have the the floor do you want the uh screen sharing Dave to put up put the plan up uh sure excuse me can Dave Crossman have screen sharing please okay standby okay he should be able to go with the screen sharing yeah so can you see that no no all right all right there we go okay all right how about now yes okay so this is at one Brown Road Mr Han is proposing a 20 by 30 foot addition at the rear of the house with an additional 10t by 10 foot deck on the east side of the house next to to the patio around the pool all of the work is within the N the lawn existing lawn and inside the existing fence um we have also proposed erosion control silk barrier around the work area inside the fence so there'll be no activity occurring outside of the fence or in the tree line everything will be in the lawn um so this this area is within endangered species habitat and we do have a letter from natural heritage saying it's not a take which I believe you also have a copy of yes and we do have a d file number as well they were they did ask about natural heritage because I forgot to put the green receipt in the noi that I sent to them but they also have received the copy of the no take from Heritage can I ask when that letter uh was written you mind just uh introducing yourself please oh sorry this is Linda Mack a butter can you tell me um Dave that letter was written November 7th okay 20 2024 yes yes thanks right [Music] there um so one of the comments from do you have the comments from D yes um so the it states the applicant should provide the commission Mass D with the determination letter issued by National Heritage uh in 2021 to verify the expiration date and any conditions that may have been specified even if a not take determination was issued any conditions specified in the nhp determination should be incorporated into the order of conditions for the current project Miss should refrain refrain from closing the hearing until revised materials are received by mass D and the commission um and then the second comment was the rosion control should be extended behind the proposed addition to prevent erosion and sedimentation in the wetlands Wetland downg gradient Jason to Wallace Hill Road um referring to the other side of the fence silic control around the front that's correct to the front of right it's that area is actually the septic system and the addition is actually going to be a little bit of a down slope from the septic system so if there's any erosion it's actually going to head towards the pool and the corner where the deck is where the proposed deck is I should say because that's about a foot lower it's going to be about a foot lower on that side of the house but the cont as for the L slope towards the fence we can add erosion controls that's not really an issue but I'm just saying that reest from the D what what is 60 to 70 feet of round W Stak in yeah we can curl that right around to the uh septic [Applause] tank so when you put the wles down they'll roll right over towards the [Music] fence 100er what did you say two3 yeah just looking at it well as it shows 2/3 just about the same amount with P 23 no was L um half this all marinates there's and this is a fence ining area all that area is well hold on let's let's go back to the can we get a copy of the determination letter issued from nhb in 2021 uh I don't know if I have that readily available but I can look but this doesn't the recent letter we got does address this the proposed work that we're presenting tonight explain this thing take and no take excuse me take no take taking up habitat well the a no take just means that we're not disturbing any rare species habitat a take would mean that we are doing that and then there'd be all kinds of studies that we'd have to do and to prove that we wouldn't be doing that species impact did they specify which species might no they don't specify and we don't mention our particular species in open meetings the one the one I have literally 2020 looking for 21's right um what does be mind reading it to us and then sending the conservation email a copy of it please so we have it this is uh in regards to the pool defense thank you for submitting site photos and project description to the natural heritage and endangered species program of mass division of fish degrees and Wildlife to review pursuant to the sorry all right this is Species Act and is implementing regulations based on review of the information that was provided the commission has determined that this project was currently proposed appears to be exempt from the Massa review pursuant to 321 CMR 10.14 which states the fallowing projects and activities shall be exempt from the requirements of 321 CMR 10.18 through 10.23 construction or removal of structures that are secondary to the primary residence and located within existing paved areas and lockly developed and maintained Lawns or landscaped areas on Residential Properties provided there is no expansion of such existing paved lawn and landscaped areas any changes to the proposed project or any additional work beyond what has been provided may require a filing pursu project site is with in estimated habitat and a notice of intent is required and a copy of the notice must be submitted to division so that is received at the same time as the local Conservation Commission please note this determination addresses only the matter of St State listed species you have any questions this letter cont species review biologist she has thank you I'm sorry you want me to forward this to her uh the con email for the town um it's 2020 you started to is that from 2021 or 2020 um the one that's on the screen is from 2020 that's the one August 31st 2020 regarding the pools I mean the patio 21 was the pool in the fence okay okay so yeah there should have been one um I think it's conservation at mass or yes [Music] yeah yes so all these activities are exempt under Misa because even even our letter from November 7th States this is the following activities that shall be exempt from the requirements yes so the the pool the fence the patio and these additions are all exempt from review by Misa so they don't consider this to be a take okay so um I've got two emails here that I'll read or I'll read one of them and the second one was from Linda and she can share it um so this one's from in the butter uh Kim greo um good afternoon chairman Gates unfortunately I'm unable to attend the meeting tonight due to con due to a conflict please note that I inquired at the land use office about the previous order conditions that would be associated with the property however I was unable to view it the office staff was very helpful but in absence of a land use coordinator or conservation agent it seems to town lacks capacity refill a butter request for information beyond the current application I am writing to appeal to the commission to do their due diligence and research the original delineation order conditions and input from the state regarding the environmentally sensitive concerns of this part of towns and I believe we are in a designated area of special concern and speaking from personal experience we are in a active Wildlife Corridor um review of the original and possibly refiled orders order or orders of conditions um is critical to not only recognize and uphold protections but put in place at that time but it's also in the interest of the applicant to understand what can be requested that will not be in violation of the order of conditions on fil with the state thank you very much for your time Kim greo 250 Wallace Hill Road um she would be an across the street about and then Linda do you mind reading your email that you s this afternoon you can go ahead and do it oh you're the one getting paid a lot to do this job you know I haven't got a paycheck on a while [Laughter] own a lot of back P dear will be attending the hearing tonight on one Brown Road to voice my concerns and opposition to the expansion of the buildable footprint of this property I asked the town employees to view previous records no prents uh in order of conditions but they were unable to assist me because they did don't know where they were filed I went to the registry a deed site but was unable to find a previous order of conditions or plans I have also put in request to the town Clark for all records I may not get them until December um which L Lindo did put in a um request records request yeah up to 2010 you did yeah but I I recently found out that the original orders of condition are 2006 so so and I looked up looked it up at least by the ad or by the homeowner um I didn't look it up by the address on the D website so yeah so the owners um were uh they owned the four Lots on Wallace Hill Road so this particular lot was referred to as one of those four and it was Wallace Hill not brown originally so when you look it up you have to kind of think about all that so when you look it up you'd look it up under Wallisville Road it would number you have to get Crea okay okay same with yeah it's under Lynn careno she was a realtor and she owned those four Lots fisheries and wildlife bought two of them the ab budding two yeah one on the other side so yeah okay she bought the two Center ones and the one on this side she didn't buy and the one on the furthest side on Wallace James would the uh commission need a order conditions for the Builder build on the spot say that again wouldn't the Builder who have had to have filed orders of conditions yes so that would have been newer than what Miss Mack is saying would not with the house being built 2019 it was that your house was brand built brand new in 2019 right on the cusp of 18 19 I took ownership of it in 19 there was no existing no existing home there so you developed the whole par I did not I did not he bought it okay turn key yes in other words so you bought a lot you built the house well he bought the order of conditions that could be outstanding correct um yeah also in 2016 um Benjamin Builder filed the notice of intent because it had expired really yeah so that's when yeah Gary he um sold the land and built the house after he refiled and got a new orders of condition so y so how would this be open if I was able to purchase the home would had to be closed no sometimes they it falls through the cracks um we've dealt with real estate transactions where houses were built in the 90s and a good lawyer um or paralal will notice it uh when they do the the deed search or the title search title search um you know there are we've seen SE houses um change hands and then new owners get them and then they come to us or previous owners didn't even know it when they bought the house even 10 years ago happened to Maria milin um it uh and then yeah you have to backtrack and then pay that the fee to close it now correct me if I'm wrong I've been in front of this board a couple times now the board have that within the first two times that I've been in front of you guys for different projects the first time I wasn't on um the second time was under an RDA right so you know we don't typically look or bir that's the envirment of scientist and land owner I've been asking for a raise so I can have time to do this stuff but so also just so you know I did contact D they would have the ERS of condition from 2006 yeah it would have been under Wallace Hill though right yeah so I gave them that information they're G get back to me only reason I'm concerned about that is because this lot was um quite um constrictive because of the wetlands um and sometimes conservation would put a condition because this often happens that when somebody builds a house um and it's understandable you want to expand you know you want to grow the house grow the footprint um but sometimes Conservation Commission would put um one of the conditions as uh you know that it's limited to that to that footprint so I just wanted to see what they did back then and they can also tie it to the deed yeah so it's permanent right because that happened to you for Milan's house their new house they have um the National Heritage piece tied to the deed yeah of the order of conditions no the deed to the property so it never goes away so it's it's always there always there yeah it's not going to be something an attorney will miss in a that was from the prior owner put right but it's something that you really can't get rid of so there has to be some research done I ask you a question you GNA speak up a little Leslie I'm sorry I is that better a little can you introduce yourself please hi Leslie Gaba 5 Warner Road did you all do a S sidewalk to this yes and it's all within a Fen in landscaped area I see that I just didn't know if there's any disturbance and Lawn beyond the fenced in area or is that the limit of disturbance for this project itself just on the site is the fence The Limited the limit of lawn or is it cleared in lawn beyond the fence more so where the SE where the septic is in the front yeah the side um no well the front of the house there's the septic system in lawn and then just in the back where it's all fenced in okay so where it's beyond the fence it's wooded yes okay so it can't be because of that comment that natural heritage made about lawfully created Lawns of their additional lawfully created lawns beyond the fence but there are not there is no work proposed beyond the fence it's all within the existing lawn just that's all that we can do according to Heritage is work according to the plan that we presented correct but when you're out there and looking at it I didn't know if you do approve it if you wanted to say excuse me this is the limit you know no further disturbance Beyond this so that more and Lawn isn't created and then additional not no take designation because it's more lawn that's been created point there so that was previously voted that has then since become lawn that would had been filed with National Heritage yes interesting okay I think Les thank you for that education I appreciate it how is that police I'm asking that part of your payche yes but it's also it's also people that have devoted literally their entire lives to it like was L um so I appreciate having people so well educated on that those two well versed and been in the game a long time long time I mean I done Mission 15 years and she was one of my mentors you know so you were good um I as much is it' be great to at least get this off of our list um I I think that we need to um continue this to our next meeting um so that we can do a little background and what specifically are we going to be looking for the 2021 um letter from Yes uh and that would I I would put that I would put that onto the applicant to provide us with a letter from the 2021 right which National Heritage should have on pile and too well that yeah and that's when the property changed hands but also finding out through the regist Deeds um you know if there's anything tied to that yeah property um and making sure everything is because if there is an open order conditions it should be handled prior it's got to get taken care of you quiet I know you're just taking it all in I don't want to you same with Mike all right so I have to get going to another hearing in westf in about 10 minutes which I'm not going to make it this point but so I will agree to a continuation to your next meeting at this time and I'm gonna have to sign off right now thank you thanks and that'll be one I don't know I lost my agenda um it's right there December 11th thank you pat pat what are your thoughts questions or well I feel bad I mean if this wasn't done correctly earlier and now he's on a hold on this and I understand you know that we need some more information and how how will this change the whole thing I mean is it going to be even if we find out I mean is that going to have to be redone the valid points we have to find out what the verbage is with the O we have to find out what's going on natural heritage 221 letter there's that and then there yeah there's the original did Lorden build your house you reuil that one that was build can I can I just add a few things because I I don't think my letter got completely no so I think on the plan just the plan itself is lacking um updatedness like where the driveway is now where the fence goes I just think you should have an updated plan given to you um yeah I don't think the grading of like where you know it um where where the addition is happening like how are they going to grade it um I I didn't see those proposed grading on there but maybe I was missing it too um there yeah no you're right Linda and I don't think there's enough of a because it's so flat no great changes but that should be indicated on just as a note it's a simple note yeah um um addressing that the lot is in the um AC again and natural heritage of course you're dealing with that it's a the lot is designated outstanding resource water and should be addressed in the mass surface water quality um you know I'm when you see the old filings I'd be curious as to see if the Wetland deline is consistent with the one that Gary Lorden Benjamin Builders submitted might be different might be different huh might be different might be I would want I that's an interesting point might be I guarantee you so we just just throwing that out there um and lastly uh yeah I just think you know these lots that you know and it's not the owner's fault they don't know I wish Realtors let people know I wish the developer let you know the Builder let people know that there's wetlands and natural habitat maybe they did I don't know but um yeah I just um think again we're seeing a lot that's um you know was a difficult lot to begin with and expansion just keeps happening so um and the habitat of the um endangered species um I still think the orders of condition should um address when it's okay to do construction exactly just to make sure you know like when I had my when I had a tree thing done um you know I couldn't do it during certain H um you know breeding habitat and that kind of thing y but you guys probably know that so within that fenced in established mode consistently lawn area we we were going to look for have a a habitat schedule on no no no no it just means it just means um construction so when the the what it means hold let her finish go ahead I mean it just means a few months that you don't do any construction well you can't right right the construction side of things and um April through November usually what Leslie what April through November okay yeah yeah that you can you might you might also you know if you do approve it and you condition it sorry to interrupt I can't we can't hear you I don't know what to do how to be louder up louder I'm trying how about that so better I'm you come in person I could anyway just just to have a because of the species that's out there have some kind of limit for where the construction equipment goes and where you know all this stuff where they dump yeah you know where they Park where they do all that you know all that from other ons but to just have some control on where the access is right I mean that that is one of the questions is how you going to access it you just you put in going across the front going across between the tank and the sub fence come down and here's the thing I have the money to redo the patio if we had to money is not really an issue on this project so I if I had to redo that that's not problem yeah but you shouldn't have to the SE lead field is outside side right 100 foot you travel on Long well no well the Le Field's right on the we're going to travel right across the we're right across the middle of the system that's pipe and stone system with schedu 405 we're going to lay some deck in down go right so we're still but you're still within you still have that the habitat so correct but we're outside but it's also only a 20 by 30 so it's something that's going to get dragged out right no it's and the grades aren't changing we're just going to cut into the existing grade and the foundation is going to slope to the grade to the existing grade so the the yeah does the revised plan have the the wood line it does not we talked about that at the site plan yeah the sidewalk there no Woodland area you still should right but it still should be depicted on it because you're still within you know yeah I know the the wood Line's right at the tree line I mean right at the fence line it's about 5 10 feet back how many feet prob it's five to 10 if I'm Ball parking yeah but we did talk about that the sidewalk that was something you wanted I could had that plan updated time unfortunately this down to the next meetings um yeah the lack of administration administrative help is no um can I ask a question yes sir I'm new here so I don't know what kind of questions I'm allowed to ask or not you can ask anything you want so uh initially I wasn't sure if your intent was try to stop the project Al together but more you you talked about it I'm getting the sent and correct me if I'm right or wrong um that you just want it done you're not necessarily trying to stop it you just want it done carefully so that it mitigates any potential harm to the environment is that is that correct let see who are you asking the question to he's asking yeah both of you actually oh um no as a former conservation commissioner I I you know I would say that um as hard as it is to say no to families when they want to expand um you know you just sometimes you have to do it but it's up to the commission not me but I would I would say I would uh prefer to see less expansion on a site like this um that's just my my opinion about it why is that um because of the um impact to the species and to Wetlands and what they um what the wetlands give to us you know you follow that same belief on your own property we're not going down this road tonight I am way too tired for that yeah it's fair um I think I think um that's regulations where you'll learn as you get trained on the Conservation Commission um it's not personal it's it's about regulations and trying to adhere to them as the Conservation Commission but also be you know realistic and work with the applicant so I just think if you're going to have that ruling then you should kind of practice what you preach as well that's just my opinion on it my concern is Benjamin Builder stiffy on this one like he has so many other people in this town and you you probably have an an order conditions I can guarantee un unfortunately and I want to make sure that that is is it has get taken care of well and again I think if you look at my track record with the depart good I've done everything you guys have asked I have no problem contining to do that being transparent you know even dating back to several others so well and yeah unfortunately you you've inherited that those things but right um so we'll work out a few of these variables and and just keep moving forward yes um but I do think it's important for the conservation that people are going to bring up kind of throwing stones at one property kind of take a look at at maybe multiple Properties or those that are bringing up um kind of actions or or things hold up my project I think it'd be fair to look at Leslie's property and Linda's property take a look and see hey do they follow the same practices that they're throwing in my my property and I don't know if you do or don't I I really don't know you guys so P well I I'm thinking about all this and thinking about the property and stuff and we're you know I understand the fence going to come down just to to do it but it's already fenced in where the other small deck is or the deck is going to add and stuff so like it's not anything outside of that fence so like everything is already been done in there the pool everything else so established yeah everything you know and there's grass there and everything so I don't see one it would affect any of the what lands or the say the habitat because it's all fenced in there's nothing that they're not going to get in there anyway and you know I can just see adding the small you know make it a little bit larger to deck um without changing anything in there um and it's pretty level in there so that's my opinion and I'm sorry you're going through this and yes you may still have to look into it because of the Builder but I don't think it should hold him well look and it could be an open order of conditions in there so he will fall back and do some research but I think you're spot on I got to tell I think you spot on them what your observation and opinion yeah it's it's I mean if it wasn't and it was just all open and then he's going to put a deck over there or something but it's all enclosed controlled environment speak I think when Common Sense kind of looks at it I think a lot of people it's done beautifully in there and I love it I love I I get excited when you bring up it was a very valid thing and Linda's points valid lesle points valid um every everyone's Point um you know Brad's Point's been valid it's and I I just want to make sure that we're not moving forward without taking into consideration previous orders of conditions previous um we have to make sure the Pape is clean yes I me I think we should get that done and then he should be able to move on after that I just can't see holding him up because of it I just well you you also can't hold them up you're not allowed to hold them up unless you do your due diligence but so if he so November to April if you guys get this information soon then you can issue him in order of conditions and he can get work done before April right yeah no and the the the construction timeline as Linda said and said that's a real thing you know with the rail trail we had to try our best to abide by that um because the animals do come out when it gets warm so um with that I I I make a motion to continue this to uh our Wednesday December 11th 11th yeah um Brad Kevin can you just hold on Brad can you get us an updated plan with the the tree line any any proposed changes to the grade but if there is not changes not it so I I'm not going to promise you that I can get you anything time with the holidays I'll do my best to obviously I'll be held up by my surveyors go from there but I'll I'll work to get that done for it I think more importantly right now I'd like to get those orders of conditions closed that is what I was just going to say that's the biggest thing that can hold him up right now that's like closing on the house an attorney didn't get a mechanics lean for $1,000 somewhere that said that's something that I don't think if there are existing orders of conditions that need to be closed out you know they'll have a side inspection to make sure everything's stabilized and sign off on it but we that discussion to close it out um can be held on an administrative side which no idea how we do but spring will help us you know if and then if there's any verbiage we'll just have to bring it to the table for next time but you know if it's something where we can you know do a close the order of conditions or complete the order of conditions and then have this after discuss it after I I think that's a something that we can accommodate of course so can I just say one last thing I just wanted to say that um I wanted to answer the question for me at least anything that's been done on my property has always had a permit to be done so and I think that was a bit of uh you know a bullying tactic uh for those of us who want to come as a Butters it's the first time I've been able to speak about this property because I've always been on the commission so I've never been able to say anything because I was but I think it's um for Leslie to be questioned also whether she has ever I think that's unacceptable behavior and uh so I'm just going to say that because people should come to these hearings and be able to speak without being intimidated so I'll leave it at that so noted and it's on so not it's on record so noted Linda thank you um could you get your friend in the background a chair so we can sit down get a little bit it looks like he been standing up the last half hour I'm standing too I'm just short you guys are both well that all right never mind you both stand you know I like standing I okay I don't lock my knees you know military you fall down right to next meeting the 11th of December I'll second that second it we have a roll call vote please M yes jamesan yes James Gat yes Pat Jal yes and Kevin isain I see your agenda again please thank you Linda thanks Leslie thank you both thank you guys for doing the work you do yeah it's good to see you I seeing you too we've all put in for pay increases we haven't got a word on well I'll at town meeting I'll vote for your pay increase for sure something for mileage and stuff driving around also he earned it yes so items for discussion next meeting is one Brown Road um the next meeting is Wednesday December 11 2024 and January 8th 2025 7.m select board chamber second floor um can I have a motion to adjourn at 8:30 p.m. I make a motion that adjourn I second roll call yes James yes James Gates yes yes Kevin Smith yes