I'd like to call to order the right >> August 13, 2025 um conservation commission meeting um at 7:02 p.m. Can I have a roll call starting with Mike? Mike Mike said
present. >> James Dean present. >> James Gates >> present. >> Pat Jalo present. >> Do you mind leaving us? >> Yes. Yes. America to theublic.
One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Everybody's doing it even on my meeting is being recorded. Is anyone else recording
chairman's additions and or deletions? Uh we have an addition to the correspondence 4.3 uh DCR cutting plan forum uh for the Otter River complex. Um
>> Otter River Complex. >> Y bring us up to speed where that is. Is that the only thing for you? >> Yes. >> Private property. >> They they consider that audit or Um
Jared, do you mind muting yourself, please? >> Yeah, sure. >> Thank you. >> Um I think this was already done. This is just the completed form, right? >> Okay. So, I'll put >> So, it has both. >> So, 4.4 cutting plan
>> all the peak out of us. what we can talk about when we get there. Stunning plan completion turn the board when we get there.
>> That was >> um chair report. Um anything I have is covered under uh the agents report. Uh 1.6 review and approve meeting minutes.
Do you want Jared to come back on? >> What? >> You muted Jared. Do you want >> No, he muted. I asked him to mute. >> Right. >> So, he is on at on 15. >> Oh, okay. >> I get distracted very easily. So, >> I just
>> um did everyone have a chance to review? >> Yes, >> I read some of it. Got to go to it. That's amazing. I need address. It's just You're also stream. >> Yes, I am. I have working on it. I'm
just >> No, I'm almost set up now. >> Yeah, >> I put my Okay. >> So, I need a motion and a second, please. >> You want to make a motion to accept the minutes from date? >> June 25th. >> June 25th.
>> Yeah. I'll second that. >> Roll call vote starting with Mike. Mike said yes. >> James Dan, yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Yes. >> 1.7 agent report.
>> Okay. Start off with departmental reference forms and board signups. Uh we had three men stream submitted a revised site design, septic
design, excuse me. Uh no proposed work within 100 foot buffer zone. Um 108 road has a septic system replacement design and there's no wetlands involved.
Uh I wasn't here and James actually signed up on that one. uh site visits. Uh I went to 15 Park Road yesterday, the 12 and uh inspected models and silence there and they're
starting on the 7th request, but uh they were installing appropriately. Uh I did do a site visit to Old Meeting House uh conservation commission property. Um the area that I was looking at was up
off of Old Meeting House Road coming from Highland Street. Um but the conditions there um were there was minimum trash and trails are open and easy to follow. Um so kids were in there
maybe some junk. >> So that that we actually gave someone permission to do that. Oh, okay. >> The mountain bikes. >> Yeah. So, that's why doing mountain bikes. >> Oh, yeah. They got some nice firms set up. >> So, we actually gave him formal
permission. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Last last year. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He signed something for it. >> But it looked
>> But it's to the So, you you parked at the top of the meeting house. >> Yes. >> And you went to the lot. Yes. >> For um what's it called? Um what are those houses that neighborhood? >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, but yeah. So, it's still on. That's where >> Yeah. Okay. Exactly. Um and also I'll mention it's on the agenda, but I just investigation. We'll get to that. It's on the agenda.
That was a pretty much straightforward walk on conservation property house from 119 up through >> Yes. >> Yep. >> all the way through the flat to the top.
>> Well, you don't get you don't go well. >> You park at the top in the parking spot. Came down from there. You know, you can go hard left to go all the way up the hill to the top of hill. >> Yeah. >> But my group kind of put down where the
prime scale investigation was 119 >> and you had to kind of get 219 because it's spread out down that for a little bit. It's a it's a good good size track of diseased trees. Nice job.
agenda. >> Um, and then the other thing we had was the Harbor Church was on that's going to be a volley. They're going to pass back and forth to each other. >> Yep.
>> I know. I know. I think they were keeping up on task. Like >> guys are using technical terms. I'm not aware >> organiz what what's a volley is that >> we'll get there when we get there >> to a surve or
>> no when we get there >> so tough to do the meeting >> yeah but so when I walked in it said AI was dictating it >> oh yeah >> yeah we don't want >> it's a matter of time bad >> well I've tried it >> on
that great for a lot of things But not our meeting minutes. >> Gota talk over each other, >> right? >> Trust me, got to give him credit. You know, >> in time in time. Um,
I'm not It's 71. Um, thank you for putting approximately >> Well, you know what? We're all caught up at the meeting and it's those times where >> okay, >> you know,
>> um, so it is 7:12. We're gonna open the hearing. Do >> you guys have meeting minutes? I can put back in the >> I'll keep mine. memories. Oh, I can't believe this.
Is illegal ad in the notice? >> You knew there was a site. >> What's that? >> Did you know that? >> Yeah. After the fact. >> Yeah, that would be great. >> Yeah, exactly.
>> You text me. >> We gota >> It's all good. >> Um, so make a motion. um or 2.1 notice intend for 71 Pittsburgh Road D number 308-0722
TWWB 2025-00005 applicant is Jared Whitcraft approximately 7:15 p.m. It is now 7:13. Proposed work is for the replacement of a septic system within 100 ft of a wetland buffer. Um
the motion is there a second. >> Second. >> Roll call starting with Mike say yes. >> James yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Yes. >> Um I can read it if you want.
>> Okay. was going to read the legal ad and then >> to get pursuant to the Massachusetts Wetland Protection Act and the Towns and Wetlands bylaw Towns and Conservation Commission will hold a public meeting on Wednesday,
August 13, 2025 at approximately 7:15 p.m. The hearing will be held virtually via Zoom meeting at the link posted and the phone number is provided. Um
we'll be in person at town hall on a notice of intent filed with the conservation commission by Jared Woodcraft. The park is located at 71 road session 17. The proposed project is for the installation of a new septic system to
replace the existing field system which is partially in 100 wetland. >> Nice job. >> Yeah. Um do you have those three cards or >> I don't have them with me. I can email
them to to Kobe. >> Promise they're done. >> Oh yeah, they get done. Will you send those out when the not when the whole notice of intent is done? I know it's it's a >> standard practice for >> Do I have the email? >> He said he's going to send
>> I said I will email them to you. I probably should have but I probably haven't yet. >> Yeah. Sorry. >> Yeah. But yeah, we we have we send out all our notices when we file and it's all done at the same time.
>> I I I have to make sure I follow the supposed to do. No, we definitely have those. Um, so Chris McKenzie from Dills Foy is joining us and Jared with Prep is on. Um, >> can you put something up on the screen for me to uh
>> Harley, can you give Colby screen sharing please? Jimmy, could you just hold that up? Like did you colored any of this? >> Well, I should have brought my codes. >> I find with all these screens, it's actually easier to have something up
here than uh plas. I'm on a project now that's a 48 by 24 in sheets something ridiculous >> that's small up there >> no 36 by 48 stupidly big
on the plan with you early. >> So this is existing house number 71. You can see the property is only 125 by 100 by 125. It's real close to the road. This is route 13 over here. Uh there's a wetland that runs all across the back.
So we have 50 foot buffer shown shown and the 100 foot buffer. So you can see uh we've designed a Geomatap system here which is IA system uh that the state has approved for use in sites that are difficult to put the conventional system
in. Um so we've designed that here and what that allowed us to do is allowed us to keep the leech area entirely outside the 100 foot bucket. So all we got going on is this new septic tank pump chamber and some grading related to the the system installation. uh we show a
proposed turnaround area. The uh the residents currently use that area as a turnaround. We didn't want to lose that. We all know how Route 13 can be back and out of this driveway is uh fairly difficult thing. So they they need an area to be able to turn around.
Uh so we've shown that on this plan so that can get uh put in, you know, for for real instead of just backing up over the lawn and stuff. Um, so we show our road control area down here from the building out to the uh beyond the 100 foot buffer and from the uh garage
corner out to the 100 foot buffer here. That gives the driveway in this area as a as a work area for for equipment and stuff for the installation of the system. >> So you're not going to be stockpiling any material out back. buying materials
will stay up front and you're going to be going up what 2 and 1/2 3 feet in the front area. >> Yeah, about 3 ft to 3 and 1/2 ft. Right in right about here is probably the most built talking uh
>> 329 to 333. >> So 32 and a half. So it's about three and a half feet maybe. >> So that's going to take a whole big change out in front of the house. >> It will. Yeah, >> that system is at zero drive on. That is not set up for any load.
>> Geomat system cannot be driven on. >> I'm just making the comment that that cannot have any vehicles on it. >> So, he's going to have to maintain parking to the right of the house. >> You're not going to be able to park on that.
>> There's going to be a really steep slope right here. >> Exactly. >> Coming from the driveway area unless you're pulling straight off the road. And I believe I think there's a pretty heavy curb or something along that along all the roadside that it's going to prevent people from driving straight.
>> But he will have ample ability to turn have good egress out of his drive. >> Right. That's the point. That's the point of showing this turn around here. >> Gotcha. So that >> and it drops off pretty steep to the other side in in between the neighbors. >> Right. And that steepness is actually on
the neighbor's property. >> That's on the neighbor's property. >> Yeah. This is that steep. So I believe furniture back here. >> Yes. >> It just had a real strong drop off to that side. >> That's where the water is going through the area. Had a lot of live soil.
It'll hopefully seed up and stabilize. I'm good. Mike. >> No, I'm fine. Was it looking at it today? >> Questions? I don't
>> but just make a mental note of that particular system, Mike, in the future. That's >> that isn't an installation for the just because it's a tight area in there. that close to the road in proximity and it's
a do not drive stuff on. So >> I think on sheet two you can have sheet two there Jim. >> Yeah. >> And the bottom I printed it out right showing. Yeah. See that's >> what a conventional system would look like. We'd have a a retaining wall along
the property line road there. We would have filled out into the driveway here. part of the system would be in the 100 foot buffer. So >> that's a conventional stone pipe trench system >> due to the size of it that you have to go. That's why that
choice. >> So this is what it would look like if it was a >> conventional stone and pipe trenches two foot wide by foot or whatever. We'd have a retaining wall here. We'd fill all the way into the driveway. They'd have no turn around here. They probably have to
move the driveway or something. They fell right into the property line. >> You didn't see anything. >> You didn't see anything. >> It's quite improvement. >> Straight forward. It's such a small You're talking 125 ft. 125 ft as far as
>> what an acre 12,500 ft. >> So that refers back to very small lot area to work with. >> So what's the name of the system? Mhm. >> It's a G. >> G O
>> G E O M A T >> M A T G. >> Michael's just curious as to the reason for the use of that system. Why you wouldn't have gone conventional? It's the restrictions of the size and the area, proximity.
>> I mean, he's going to walk what, four feet out and he's going to be on the debox, >> right? Yeah. So, it's tight. It It is what it is. >> Well, and if you look at that conventional one, the fill the fill on the conventional one went right up to the house here. So, it just been a steep slope going right into the house,
>> which is attractive in its own way. >> I've done one. I did one like that. But what we ended up doing is we ended up running a retaining wall with like 3 ft off of the house so people could walk through there and not be walking on the sloping leaning ball against the house.
Over the years, we've seen some truly interesting things to accommodate what they need. >> But >> Mike, um, >> Chris, just out of curiosity, how much more is that particular system from a conventional? Is it the time constraint
or extra materials? >> Um, a little of both. It's It's really hard to give a general answer to that. on this site. >> No, >> this geomat's probably cheaper than the conventional one. >> It probably is. The geomat's expensive
product to buy. >> Correct. >> But you're getting a big reduction in the amount of fill. >> You're not having to build a retaining wall, which really once you start talking about retaining wall, you start adding adding money on by the thousands depending on the length of it. Um,
>> you know, not to mention the amount of fill. I mean, it'd be enormous fill. um >> that system is generally about 40% smaller than a conventional system. So that's 40% less fill if you will. It doesn't really end up being exactly 40%
but it's a it's a definite reduction in the fill. >> Where's the existing system >> in the back? >> Not on the Got something on there somewhere. >> I think I did see something. >> Yes, it is in the back. >> I think I saw something on it.
>> I believe it is in the back. It is. >> Um, we had I think if we look carefully on there, you'll find a note that says that the plumbing needs >> tell you too. >> Well, >> now Jared, you've been there all your life. So, the system was put in when you
were a kid or you you just you know where the Dbox is to pump it. >> It's out back. It's been there since 1945. >> Okay. So, I assume you're going to just crushing it. >> Whatever. I don't see it on the planet.
>> No, I I don't know if we know an exact location of it. I don't know if we know that. >> We're going to want that pumped and and crushed >> standard operating procedures. >> That's within the 50.
It doesn't there isn't >> right >> provisions on the plan for erosion control there. Um, I just want to make sure that >> I agree. It should be marked on the planet. So, >> it happens all the time. Guys will drive out where they don't think there's a tank and there's a tank and next thing
you know, you got a crane toppled over or a truck toppled over. >> No, it's really important that these get filled in. There is, we do have a note. We don't not accommodate the fact that there's an existing system there. Under repair note number three, it says existing tank and other existing system
components to be pressed and backfilled with clean granular material and or removed in accordance with the town of town to board health rights. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> As a stand that goes on all these upgrades. >> It's a very bottom line, >> right? >> But usually you're
>> usually we know where it is. We don't we don't know where it is. It's in the backyard somewhere. some verbiage on it as far as >> well no it should be on the plane where additional erosion control um for the backyard >> because of demolition and the
>> sorry I don't mean to slow >> it's just about ready to >> yeah especially because it's >> oh it is strong too and as you saw when we were there have a strong drop off so we should
>> run some more Yeah. >> What you're >> there will be some activity due to the crushing of it. >> So pumping, >> right? >> So there's this Yeah, we have this old tank that we have to contend with in the
backyard and I just And it's with within the, you know, 50 to 100 ft and um >> etc. >> It's typical that they get crushed and killed. So, >> Mhm. >> I'll look to Pat and Mike for their thoughts and then
>> Yeah. No, you're right. You make a good point. That's probably more an influence on the island than the actual >> Yeah. tank. >> You'd be lucky if it's not a a 55gallon drum.
>> Right. So, I I've witnessed many of times these uh tank uh situations. Um the whole process takes about five minutes >> after it's pumped out. They come with a m the pumper. The pumper pumps it out. The the machine comes over. He scratches
off the top. He hits it a few times. It falls in. He throws a bunch of sand in there. Throws lman seed on top and goes away. So, it it really is it takes about 5 to 10 minutes for the whole process to happen. Um, and it all happens quite quickly.
Um, so sometimes I think you know erosion controls it's going to take longer to put the erosion controls in than it's going to take to do the actual work. >> I know. But >> can Mr. Woodcraft show us where it is? >> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah, I can definitely get >> Do you know what's in the ground out there, Jared? >> I think it's a 500gallon tank right there. 500 gallon. Exactly. 500. Yeah. 500gallon concrete tank >> and then it goes out to a leech pit. >> The Yeah. A leech pit.
>> Yep. >> Jared, >> what's that? >> Tell me where to put the >> um Yeah, I guess. >> So, it's right here. The tank is right there where the deck location is just in front by a few feet. And then the pit is
somewhere around here. >> Tell me to move left or right or up and down. >> So stay right there. Up. Go up. >> Go up a little more. Say right around. Oh, down to the left of the deck. >> Yeah. >> Left of the deck. Somewhere around there
is the tank itself. >> And where's the leeching? >> Can you see my cursor or No. >> No. >> All right. Go down about to the corner of the house. straight from where you are. Right about there, give or take. >> 10 feet.
>> So they're not going to be digging out the piping and anything there. >> But they still have to have to dig it >> pump it, pump it, brush it, and blow it. But we still need to have some sort of erosion control because it's just a BMP
and we start getting lazy about it. >> How is the pumper ch gain access to it. >> Long hose. Long >> a long hose from the driveway. >> Yeah. >> Now, Jared, due to the work that's going to be done in the front. The backyard
area, I assume, is going to go to a nice backyard area, seed mode and whatnot. You're not going to have access anymore. And I'm sorry to see you lose that ability to have some equipment and supplies.
Exactly. You have a real >> very small little rock, but it's yours. It's your piece of the rock. So, the backside will get stabilized, cleaned up, loned, etc. More of a backyard opposed to >> correct
>> any dirt and whatnot that >> it's going to look just like the Joneses when it's all said and done. Nice and green. They're not as we don't like the >> Jones control even that simple process. >> So I mean does it make sense to start
here the corner and come down here? >> Yeah. So just move it out and then almost >> almost get rid of the other one that is on the uh if you're looking from the street on the left side because you're going to have to have access to the backyard. >> Take this one out. The shed. Are you going to take the shed out Jared?
>> It's actually not a shed. It's just a tent. It's a portable garage. >> Mean, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's It's going to come down. It's not going to be there. Um that will that will be It's just a tent. It will be gone in two seconds. >> Oh, yeah. We'll take out that control. >> Just Yeah. Just loop it around so that
you I I just don't want to see us get >> um Yeah. >> Get one too and not make sure we don't >> Yeah. >> We try to follow the rules. Right. Right. Right. uh you know it's a it's a fairly small area but it is going to
disturb the ground. >> So while you're adding So you're going to add that to the plan while you're adding I don't see in the legend the um 50 foot and 100 foot buffer symbol >> symbol. Oh yeah, we can add that to
that. >> Oh yeah, >> I can add that on there. >> It's it's labeled on the plan. So a lot of times when something's actually labeled on the plan, it don't necessarily >> uh Right. >> Right. >> Now you don't have anything with your covered markers to >> Well, I'm going to I'm going to do it.
Why don't we get the real >> He's good. He's good. He's our new man about that. >> Um All right. So, we do we have an idea. One of the things that we got to talk
about is the trees that were cut. Um Jared, how many trees did you get taken down and where were they and how big were they? >> So right where your cursor is, if you go straight back uh down. Yep. Go down a little bit more.
No, away from there. More to the right where the shed is. >> So most of the trees from where that cursor is to the road. Jared. And that was done over a course of how long? >> Uh
like a year or so ago. >> How big were the trees? >> Uh not really not really sure. Um different sizes. 10 inch diameter. 8 inch diameter. Smaller >> five. >> Five.
>> No, >> I'll let you and go that one. >> Well, Chris has to make revisions. I have to get the take the time of the commission. So I drove by and noticed trees look like they were cut in
preparation for this work and um it just caught my eye. So >> how many square foot did you say the lot was again? >> It's like 12,000 >> 12,000 square foot. >> So of course if any tree take cutting one tree you're going to notice it in a
lot like that. Um >> where the uh where the stumps are. I didn't see any st I did not see Jared I assume you you did pull the stumps they went away. >> Yeah, stumps are all gone. >> Okay. So that's why I was not able when
we were there to really define what trees were removed. I looked >> and that's why I didn't mention we had a lot of live soil, a lot of live ground area. Also why I had mentioned that back area is now going to go into
lom clean seated etc. >> But you're also >> should be going back in too. >> Yeah. >> No, absolutely. >> What are your thoughts? You were able to make such positive. >> Yeah. Because I didn't know there was any trees there either. Um because you
couldn't you know there's no stumps. But um now I had thought about it for a while at home and I'm like yeah that was all cuz it wasn't that open that clear um at the time they started putting things in there. Um
but I wasn't sure how long ago that was you know. So what are the implications now that we know that the trees have come down without going through the required process? >> Um it's usually at our discretion.
Colby, what are your thoughts before I I go down a hole and then we have to go backwards? >> Yeah, I think about what I have done there and I understand Jared that this is um the backyard there outdates all the regulations we have. Um, but there
did look like some uh new clearing. If you watch the cursor up here, it it's really the area down here right next to the the wetland right right next to the stream. It looked like it had recently been cleared out to me. Uh because it was fresh air, fresh l
I think that's the area that we we are most concerned with as as we spoke at the site visit a little bit about it. That that that's the area really in invention. So are we going to so we can keep this
moving forward request the land owner put in a reasonable schedule replaces that are >> this is Your discretion comes in replant, reveated signs if you like.
These are options. These are not >> Have you seen the signs? >> These are not um you don't have to signate. >> Yeah, I have one. You guys gave me like >> I had it on one of my plans. >> Those would be the things that that would be.
>> So, moving forward. >> No. No. Is that something we would ask of those and Rory to put a brief scheduling of some trees or is that >> Yes. >> So why why do we think that trees would
be necessary rather than some other stabilizing vegetation? Uh I think trees is more a broad a broad term in this conversation. I think that >> we could do blueberry bushes. week. There's a multitude of different
>> and we're not talking landscape grade either. >> No, but what about the grass? >> That's the reason why I had mentioned Jared. >> Now that that area is closed off, he's not going to have all his brick block and material out there. >> Well, no, that that's that's we're
talking to the other edge. >> We're talking the back within the 50ft buffer that really should be reveated with something that's a native even like a sedge bud. you know, more >> grass isn't good enough for that or
>> Well, if there's some kind of wetland plant that could do the same purpose. Um, could I have permission even though I missed the site visit this morning or uh to go on the property and check it out myself?
That's a question. Is he hearing you? >> Did you get that, Jared? >> Are you asking me directly? >> Yes. >> Oh, yeah. Sure. I mean, definitely. >> Okay. Yeah. I'd like to go down there and check it out and see what's down there anyway. And then
>> uh because we're going to meet with for this again, right? >> I I think we we're going to have to >> Yeah. >> with some revisions. But, you know, the there should be an area of restoration that much if that it was cleared like that within the wetland buffer. Um, and
I would like to incorporate the wetland signs. >> Okay. >> It's not that big a property. You need three of them. >> It's so small. It's almost pains me to make him do I mean I think Jared had his eye on that. He's going to stabilize
with lawn and everything. But I think you're right. Well, we should make sure we put some >> I think within the 35 foot we should there should be outside some sort of delineation with some wetland. >> What's the downside? What's the
downside? >> There's never a downside. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. So, you know, we're not going to take away all his backyard, but if he is that close to the buffer, >> no. No, we're not talking a very big
schedule of planting. What? >> Well, some of what we're talking about is >> straightforward >> outside this boundary. >> Glad somebody brought it up. >> What's that? >> So, I'm glad somebody brought it up. I
don't know how much restoration you can do on property. >> And I actually tried to contact the neighbor there for us to get permission to go on the property. um is I just haven't thought that properties somebody
owns it further in the back of this. Well, if you look at the property lines there um the half of the stream is on some of the >> right there's only a small corner of the wetland actually on the property. >> Yeah.
>> Mostly most of the wetland is not on the property that's affected. Well, >> so if I check it out, I can give you my opinions what might be a suitable stabilizing vegetation. >> Let's get the permission first
on the neighbors. >> Well, not neighbors. >> We're not planting on the neighbor's property. Yeah, the neighbor outside some of the trees. It seems like some of the trees were clear on the neighbor's property. >> I thought we were staying in the
parameters of what Jerry needs. >> We are going to the neighbors at this point in time and asking them about who clean trees. >> Yeah, >> that was obvious. >> No, you know, I'll be perfectly honest
with you. obvious in in the regards of now to get this completed and going forward. We need to wait to hear from the neighbors to discuss. >> No, >> but we're not going to complete this tonight anyways because there's stuff that has to get
>> Please correct me on what I'm looking at. motion. >> No, no. Hey, >> I asked a specific question. >> Okay. The neighbor at this point in time. >> Yes.
>> Were any pictures taken today? >> If we enter beyond that behind his house, >> you're sitting on someone else's property. We need permission to do so. Mike's house. Well, I wouldn't I wouldn't go necessarily. This won't go
on the property. I'll just stand at the boundary >> to see and seems like it's a separate issue. We're dealing with this and I'll see what I think could be done on his prop on this property regarding this
project. And that sounds like a separate issue, but it's something worth pursuing. Yeah. All I'm saying is if trees were cut that closely or there should be some sort of restoration plan. So, and if prop trees were cut on
someone else's property, well, that's that is a civil matter at this point. Um we've asked for revision to include the uh buffer in the legend and then buffers in the legend and then the silk
fence relocation it I can't instruct Chris to do it but maybe Chris should put eyes on you know based on the property line. You know what areas were disturbed and
if they were within the 50 foot um get a basic idea what we do. It looks pretty flat through there. Um maybe it's just a grass seed mix at that point, but we still should do our due diligence
and make sure that it is stabilized properly. thoughts. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure how many activities are you talking to put in there.
It depends on how much ground. There's a ratio of how much grounds disturb to what the planting is. And you don't put you don't necessarily just put trees, you do shrubs, you do it. all small stuff, all you know, wetlands uh grade or replication grade, whatever they call
it. But that's why I'm kind of deferring, you know, maybe Chris should put eyes on this to see or and Mike might or just have Mike look at it, but we're not really the ones supposed to be designing it. There's area that's disturbed and
cleared within this buffer. We've had cases like this in the past. He added up on Pierce Road that things were over clear. So, >> all right. So, it sounds like the
suggestions you made for the for uh upgrading the plans. >> Yeah. Amending. Yeah. And that wasn't just it was all of us. Um but determining an area if if there needs to be,
>> right? The idea was to stabilize the area with grass seed again. However, at some point after getting the plans approved to move the separate design to the front of the house, I still have to get plans to do some work on the existing garage that's
to the right of the property. So, before I'm going to get into any of that work, obviously it doesn't make sense to spend any money on doing the seed now. Well, can't leave bare soil. >> If I have to if I have to establish it, I can get that done within a week,
even less. >> Or is it going to drive over again? >> Okay. Well, so do we need a motion or >> we need a motion to uh continue this uh to the next meeting. Um
if there's things that it's we could have just not a big deal but but you know Pat Kobe Jimmy what are your thoughts on continuing based on just amending this and then um
like has permission to go on Jared's property to look at it and I think really have to go past the back of the house. >> Right. >> We all should have gone on the sidewalk. We should have been You should have known about the sidewalk. I'm not happy with that. We got slowed up on that.
This is a straightforward septic system installation. I understand we're getting jammed up on some trees that were removed. I >> I don't think they're good. >> Anyway, let's reel it in.
>> There's also something that has to get crushed and we have to >> Oh, absolutely. location of >> and the location obviously we don't know but we have to make sure we have the road control on it and you know >> so we come we got to come back to the
table Mike's got to get brought back up to speed >> I'll go >> on the sidewalk if you want I'll go out with you whatever you want I'll meet you there already are you comfortable with that I bring Mike out and get him up to speed with that >> yeah that's fine yeah >> thank you we appreciate that
apologize that we have to go back out with a commissioner Yeah, >> appreciate that. >> No worries. >> Do you have anything you want to add before we continue this? >> No, not right now. >> I
just have to wait. I think. Yeah. See what they say and and we can >> I'd be happy to see the amendments, but we can't have we never approve something without >> I totally understand that. So, we need
silk guns. >> Yep. >> We need to see septic location of the the location of the old septic system for the crushing. >> So, that that's that's vague. >> What I I what we are careful not to do
and I I don't I'll have to look into the file. Maybe I have a something that has an actual location. Most times we do not. If we might have a shot on a tank, then I know the tank is there, but nothing against Jared, but we get told things are in certain places all the
time and they're not there. Can you just do a hash? >> I went a five inspection on a site and the lady told me tanks right there and I dug it up. The tank's only half full. I'm like, >> did you get this pumped up? No, we haven't had it pumped up in forever. I'm like, well, we got a problem. Tank's only half full and it's got clean water
in it. >> It was the old tank. They had a new tank in a different spot. That tank never got destroyed like it should have when they did the system. >> So, Jimmy, you're not looking for >> with just and then the sulpants shown around it for the
>> rotational tank to be destroyed. If I have something that shows the actual known location, I will I will include it on >> but you don't but I don't think I do. Otherwise I normally I would have shown it. >> I just want to make sure >> that players may be turned off >> everything figured out
>> existing system. >> Is he going to be asked to go put a schedule area and location for trees so Jerry can move forward? Is this all going to be done and ready to go? That's what I was hoping for and that's why I said maybe Chris should go look to see
how much area was disturbed within the buffer and then come up with the the ratio or or just a recommendation. Maybe you sit there and say this is flat. Just put grass seed on it and call it good >> and maybe a little look and I'll
signs up every 50 feet and and you know >> it's every 50t very many of them. I know I said real two. Sorry, two. Two. One actually. But >> I'm thinking we're budget one's just perfect.
>> Yeah, I forgot budget. >> Um so yeah, I I don't think it does not need to be complicated. It just, you know, trees were cut within the buffer without
um you know, the formal peritting process. Unless of course it was used for firewood. >> Was it used for firewood, Jared? >> No, it was not used for firewood. Everything was hauled out. >> They were falling down.
>> Some were Some were falling down. Some were dropping branches. Um makers basically. And I didn't want my daughter getting killed obviously. rate of show safety reasons. >> Okay.
>> What? >> You should make a motion and not second it. >> I make a motion to continue this till our next meeting uh with the revisions that we requested on the plan. >> That's going to be what? The 20 agenda
>> 27th. >> 27th. Second roll call vote starting with Mike >> Mike said yes. >> James yes. >> James Gates yes. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Trees. >> You get there.
>> Oh yeah. They need an intercept system. So I have to get there. >> All right. This shouldn't be a problem. Again approximate location. We know you don't nail yourself to the wall there. All right. Thank you guys. Have a good day.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you, Jared. >> Thank you. >> You want him to keep that if he's going to go out on the sidewalk. >> You okay, Kobe? If he takes a copy of the plan, >> yeah, there's two. >> There are. I just want to make sure you're okay. You're the keeper of the
files. >> Do you hear them? Return it. We need >> I will. Yeah. Once I color code it. And uh >> that's okay. >> Oh, I can't do this tomorrow. I got to take my wife in to have a colonoscopy.
>> Text shoot me a text. >> I'll either send a happy face or an unhappy face back and I'll meet you there. >> 3.1 Red Pine scale infestation on town own property. Do you want to come to the table for this, Colby? Do you have
pictures? Too much slow down. I There's a spot in town that you can see it really well. She wore really well. >> The trees that are dead. >> Yeah. >> From 119.
>> No, I know. But you can see like you can see the whole canopy. Sorry. Of them. I'll go through some pictures here. I don't know if they do it justice. This is from 119
meeting house. Here we go. Here's a couple standing dead ones. And uh let's see. These are on some of them are at 119 are on private property. Um uh mostly they are on our conservation commission property
on pro meeting house park. Well, uh, just so everyone knows, these ones here that are dropping their needles, their needles are turning reddish and brown. This is from red pine scale.
All right. So, I'll go up back into the woods here. So, a little difficult to take pictures of trees in the middle of the woods um adequately, but you can see the tops of these are dead. And this is what the
base of them looks like. See you know the uh press coming out of holes from in other insects that are are >> Yeah. pouring holes and whatnot into them. See? So just for uh the scope of things
here, this is pretty good. It shows in here you can see about 100 trees. It's probably takes up n um well I know that it takes up um 15 to 20 acres
and that's at least hundreds of trees and that's probably on the conservative count. Let's see. Uh there are a couple resources I found. Uh it's actually
already known by the state. Um so DCR is um intentionally removing all red from all of their correct >> as part of their >> they are um unfortunately I I spoke to the forest
health office which is through Dart um and they don't have any resources um for um any town owned or NOS's are privately owned forests.
I also um I have u contacted the management forester for our area and they haven't gotten back to me with any resources. So if we were to um remove
them, which I'm not suggesting entirely, um it would be on our own diamond. I'm not aware of any rate cuts that actually make money. I think at best it could be break even, but I'm not even sure.
>> There is a there is a an account associated with old meeting house park. >> Okay. >> Um there is a little bit of money in it. >> Um and I believe we can use it for this. Uh you'd have to talk to the accountant.
Um, but >> like for Meeting House Hill Road specifically, it has an account. >> Meeting House Park has a >> Meeting House Park. Um, so, but I think hiring a borrower to go
in there and figure it out, come back to us with a plan is the best way to do it. I I we can only exhaust our resources so much. But if you double check with the accountant and then back to us at the next meeting um and we can find a bar we can use or
come back to us and say yes we can and I found three barers that we can pick from. >> How widespread is this? >> How widespread is this >> in this area or in general? I mean
here is about 19 acres >> total. >> No, no, no. I mean I mean statewide New England is this I hadn't heard of this problem. >> This is a statewide problem. DCR um is in their harvesting management plans specifically call out red pines because
of this >> um >> it doesn't hold they don't hold up as >> yeah it's spread throughout New England now. Is there a I see you're on the GIS. Is there a layer that shows? >> We can get to it.
>> There. >> Well, this probably explains there's a couple of red pines up the pond area and they suddenly died. >> There's a lot of red There's a lot of red pine going up. >> They they favored it
>> in the plant. That's why these are not red, not as hardy and they're more susceptible to these bllights and these particular resources on our website. >> Um, click on the red pine scale again.
>> Yeah. >> See if anything lights up or not. >> Yeah, you can. Um, >> hey, zoom in right to 119. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Keep going. Right there. >> Yeah. This blue blue spot right there, that's our red pine scale that we're talking about. Click on the red pine
scale. They can see it. It It goes away. Oh, never mind. There it is. Oh, yeah. Look at that. >> Oh, look at that. Yep. 19 acres. >> And I'm sure with a little cooling around, you could separate out all the other insects. >> What's the pink one? >> Jesus. But
>> yeah, >> this is town. >> No, no, no. What's the pink one? >> What's the pink represent? >> There's a bunch of them. >> The pink is environmental. I think it's frost. So, these larger areas cross damage, but there is some white pine.
Let's see. White pine needle disease here. >> Yeah, we've got one along the river my house that died real quick. >> We got more red pine scale here as well. >> Is that our town? Is that our property? The second one right there.
>> Not ours or is it? >> That's the forest. Forest. >> So there is coming up in the agenda. We have we have correspondence from the state um >> BCR. >> Yeah. For um their forestry management plan
um and towns and state parks is in it. So that probably Okay. So what's the red? >> This one here. >> Yeah, >> that's the way needle >> see. There we go. Going down the rabbit hole.
>> Um it's good resource there though. the uh Mass TCR Forest Health Aerial Survey results. >> Huh. Yeah, that'd be great to get that on our website. But okay, so back to the matter at hand and please someone else speak
up. But I think find out if we can use the old meeting house account to hire a forester to come up with a management plan so that we can log it and then we go from there because the wild and scenic grant we might be
able to ask for money from them. Good point. >> Um, for next year, ask for it. But, you know, it takes time to come up with the management plan. Pat, what are your thoughts?
I'm just surprised that there's so many that since we don't get it done, we're going to have a lot more trees infected, >> right?
>> There was no um color coding on Bon Pond area there maybe. right side and left side actually going up the hill. >> No, there you go.
Is that is the damage that you've noticed? >> I've noticed some. I wouldn't say that it's that I've noticed a lot. >> Is that Benton Pond? It just hit the bottom of the red. >> Yep, that's it. >> That's the main.
>> Yeah. All right. >> So up. Wow. That's almost right behind Rossy's going towards the Girl Scout >> area. Rosy's is just to the left, right? Right there.
>> Yeah. >> Wow. That's a big And you don't notice it? >> No. I I I remember going up there last time and you notice some of it. I've noticed that some of the pines don't look great, but a lot of the trees like the uh beach trees in the area,
>> they look like crap. >> Yep. >> Unbelievable. >> Right now, and there's a ton of them that are dead. >> What is that? The emerald >> ashbor. No, that's something different. >> No, something. >> Yeah, that's the ash trees, >> right? Right. They they hit wester
some of those areas >> sweet disease >> and they took those right down chipped. Anyway, moving on. >> Well, I'll have to check. Oh, boy. >> Yeah. No, I'll have to check behind. That's basically on that. That was a
bunch of them, Colby. >> That's the way I used to. >> Okay. The longer you stay on this, the longer we're going to play with it. This is true. >> But anyway, go and find that. >> Basically, we're doing
Mother nature has a way of correcting things. >> You never know. >> Sometimes those scans provide a lot of different nature too. woodpeckers and a lot of different,
you know, she has a way of correcting the population on so that we can jump on this. >> We have a large one that was going after our house. >> Did you have a real big one? >> Real cool.
>> Cuz it was all wood. Now we have the one on the side here. We ready to move on to the land grant update. >> We can talk about the North Americ. two uh 2025 land grant update uh estimates for from engineering land
survey from for survey of properties to be reviewed by the commission. So Kobe remind me to get how much were we awarded? >> Uh 16,000 >> through Wild and Scenic or
>> Yes. >> And that's to go back and do some more >> surveying. >> Yes. >> Both pieces on Lost Matter have been Did the Boy Scouts get up there and blaze and and label again?
>> No. Uh, I'll contact them again. I have a couple emails out to them, but might not be the best way to get over this >> because our last meeting, >> didn't we have a set time they were going to go up there and I said they can park in the field, whatever. >> I'll I'll talk I'll see Derek, I think,
next week. But yeah, if you email >> Yeah. So, this was for Alysa Drive and Lunberg Road. Um, so we got prices from Anigan and Billy. Let's go on two engineer firms for
estimates. That is what we have so far. Um, all right. So, Alys, excuse me. What was it? Alyssa drawing. >> Yep. The open space associated with it. Um should what do you think go through each
line item or just total? >> I I think just the total there's no major difference between >> so because I'm going to add the the plan of land. >> Yeah. So, the Alyssa Drive um
open space area, the total for that is $9,880. And then the second one was Lindberg Road. What was what did you call it? Okay. Corral. >> Yeah. Um, and this is
just some Roy um estimate for the umber road parcel total is $8,360. >> Oh, sorry. Can you repeat that one? >> 8,160. >> Thank you. 8360
>> 360 and the other estimate I'm sorry was what >> perissa drive >> 9,880 >> a total of 18,40 >> so those were the just this Just one. Oh, was we did not go out to bid with
three. We bid two. I haven't read the next one yet. Give me a second. Um, so these aren't apples to apples. Um, oh, and the first one didn't include the $105 to
report it through registry of deeds deeds, registry of deeds recording fee. Yeah, I didn't include that in the the total >> of the 9880. >> Yeah. Or the other one, the 8360. >> All right.
>> Um I I was just giving the total for >> the wrong number. >> So 18450. So the worksheet that's interesting Um, you getting ready to go through the
quote on the second one right now. >> Yeah, Hanigan. So, Hanigan doesn't have a plan of land included. Um, nor does it have the um which isn't Yeah, they don't they they can provide a staking sketch, but it's not a
reportable plan unlike Roy. and they were also more money. So the >> Hanigan was more money and they didn't >> they do less. Um so this is for Lunberg Road. Lindberg Road is
um $8,750 and then um for Alyssa Drive it is $4,750 and that Canigans did not include a plan of land that could be reported. So really for them to
>> do that work and we are not able to put it together and record it. >> What good is that? What what does that do for us in that regard? Nothing really. >> I agree. So Hanigan
$105 for the registrated deeds because it can't be submitted in that regard. That's for this Philoy was >> on the money >> 21,500 for Hanigan and that didn't include a land a plan of land or
registry or reporting the deed >> 21,000 >> yeah 500 >> or reporting of plans sorry with registry >> with RD registry deeds. Wow. >> Is there any way to streamline
the ability to do this? I mean, I'm just >> look at how much we go through for this household. Let me let me see if I we have >> wetland specialist, soil technician, licensed soil. >> Those are the hourly rates if additional
workings. But what I'm saying is are all of the >> they all need it >> computer AED design license. We have wetland specialist. >> This is that's the takeout menu. >> I get it. But to accumulate
21,000 to survey a piece of land. I'm I'm going just wondering if we're getting our best bang for the buck. Well, you got, let's see, a staff land survey. You're going to need >> correct. I know what we're going to need to get
>> person survey pro. Um, you're going to need your PE in there to at least sign off on it. You know, they'll get you a couple hours there. >> I guess we're not engineering. >> Are we really going through it with with a real
close eye? is that's a lot of money. >> Yes. Yeah. >> To survey raw property. We spent a lot of money >> it was through a grant on road. >> Then maybe I need to break it down. So this is great. >> Boundary survey.
>> Boundary survey is $4,240 and the property line staking is $1,520. >> I understand that. Worksheet plan depicting lot staking is $600. >> That's the breakdown with DNR plus more. >> Yes. Uh
>> 81X plan of land is $2,000 plus the $105 reporting fee. Now for Alyssa Drive boundaries survey. is $5,760. Property line staking is $1,520. >> Yeah.
>> Uh worksheet plan depicting lot staking is 600. >> And that right there, all they're doing is taking their topo and uploading the information, spitting out a plan. 81X plan of land >> GIS. Yep.
>> 2000. Yep. Kobe, what are your thoughts? >> Lot of money. >> That breaks it down better. >> We are working on the grant money. um coming out of our direct funds and don't
um if it if there is an amount than um is it more if it goes beyond the amount that we granted so far there's an opportunity for us to more
>> um as far as plans that's why I guess I brought it to your table there >> I think bills ing is is more comprehensive. Um >> I agree with that.
>> I also do do you have you made contact with the other companies that you um reached out to? >> No, it wasn't that long ago. Um but I will do so see where they are with see if we can get
>> at least one >> tomorrow. So in this my opinion in you've been quiet um in my opinion I I don't think Billsy's estimates are
out of line. Um that's Oh, my opinion. >> I agree with you. >> I think they're any what we are required. They watch the meeting. >> I'm good. So Mike,
>> well I mean it strikes me as being a lot but everything is expensive these days. So you know why can't surveying be expensive as well? And don't don't um imply anything from this question. I'm just just wondering uh these properties
have not been surveyed in recently or in the past. Okay. And Alyssa Drive is New Yorker, but encroachment happens as we found. >> Well, well, this is it. I can see the benefits of knowing exactly where your
boundaries are. And that encroachment is one of the bigger infractions that we're wondering. Do we have a sense even though we don't know precisely?
Once again, don't don't think I'm going anywhere. This just will try to answer the question. If if if we have a sense where the boundary is and then we have a sense that oh, they're crossing over the boundary, it would be possible to hire
surveyors to go from A to B to C, just that boundary, which would be a lot cheaper, and then we would know. or is there a real advantage that I can't quite think of other than encroachment
for having this done? Yes, >> I'm going to go back to the purpose of the the surveys and that's to it's for the the long-term protection often through the excuse me the natural river wire.
>> Yeah, the long afternoon. I'm sorry I'm forgetting it right now. >> Yeah, we did it. >> And I don't doubt all that. And and I can see that we're going to do it. That's just, you know, it is expensive. >> It is. Um but
in my opinion, again, encroachment happens. Um, also having a a plan that's recorded the right through the registry of protects us and it makes it more um available. Um, you know, I I've seen plans and I've
seen um GPS different. Lori, are you paying attention by chance? >> I am. sort of >> I'm in my office. >> Could you help us along with this? The advantages of
>> recording a plan of land with the registry of deeds and how it protects the town. Um, I think it's a good idea to have a recorded plan and that's I mean recording a if you
have the plan, recording a plan is not that expensive. >> Um, >> but the surveying part is and that's what we're trying to just get through, you know, and we have a grant to do this. >> Oh god. Yes. Yes. You have a grant to do it.
Absolutely. Positively. >> We did three properties last year and we have two properties we're going to do this year and we're just going through the estimates. >> Um the actual the actual recording won't cost that much. It depends on who is
going to >> Huh. >> It's only $105. >> Where does What are the advantages of recording the plan of land um as a you know, >> is it land?
>> Yes. Oh, yeah. >> Oh, definitely. I would definitely take advantage of that. >> Well, yeah. I mean, there's no question that it's a good thing to do. >> Yeah. >> Maybe I'm not asking right away, Mike. >> Oh, no. Yeah. I mean, the answer is kind
of obvious even is that it's just a good thing to know where your boundaries are. Okay. That's the bottom line. for whatever reason or coachman's or whatever. I'm just asking the question >> and I'm kind of relaying. I don't know if I'm the best and I I know the answer.
We don't have to belabor this. I mean, the answer is just a good thing to know where your boundaries are. >> Yeah. Do you have survey plans that you are they surveyed? >> Yes, we've already got a lot of >> We don't We don't have the plans yet. >> Well, we we've got the raw numbers as
far as what our cost and what we're going to eat up with the grant. We're looking at $21,000, correct? >> No. No. That's if we use the expensive one. >> How much? >> Well, we have 16,000, but we have the
ability to go back and request more. >> I would do it. We always enjoy using up every penny of our money. >> I mean, grant money for sure, especially um if it protects the town,
you know, why wouldn't you do it? >> Went into conservation, too. So, it protects us. >> It is. It is. Yeah. empty script to keep the money flowing through the environment. >> I just sometimes get bewildered as to how much money it cost to to get these
land surveyed. I love the fact that we're getting it through grant money, >> but what are your thoughts? I'm just sitting here listening and I would say that, you know, like you said,
everything goes up in prices and >> too bad we >> $100,000 worth of pools. So you show up with minimum, you know, $60,000 truck, two guys with health insurance. And
>> I get I understand your question and I Yeah, unfortunately the answer we get we come up with is it's just the right thing to do. Real hands. >> I think I I'd like to stick with the I'd like to see one more quote.
>> Um >> you only have one quote. >> We have two quotes. One from Hanigan Engineering, one from Dillis and Roy. Well, how much is each? >> Um, Dillis and Roy is $18,450 and Hanigan is $21,500.
But Hanakin's price did not include a plan of land uh that is with accordable with the registry of needs. >> Well, here's the thing I would say from being on planning. Um, Dillis and Roy has done a lot in Townsen
>> and are very familiar with our properties and have done many >> areas already just like um when George Sullivan was doing it a lot, >> he knew so many of the lots that they had already sometimes they could use
other surveys to compare to what the properties are because they may have surveys of surrounding properties already. >> Yes. >> And that's what they did last year for the property we had. So >> on West Meta, >> yes, >> they were able to go back other
overlays. >> Yep. And same with um >> Peter J. >> I agree with you, Lori. Um, Delus and Roy came in the cheapest on our last time when we did West Mal Road and they
are the most the most familiar with everything in in the area. >> Absolutely. >> Are you sorry I was awake? >> No. >> No. My question is, do we just pull the trigger and have Colby get the rest of the money for and have Bill Rory do it
and not wait for the third one? Um, because they're separate contracts. below $10,000. >> Yeah, >> that's up to you. I mean, you can always you can Do you have an RFP out
and then got those quotes in? And how long was it out? >> I don't think we did a formal RFP. I think we just requested >> quotes. You just contacted the engineers directly. >> What?
>> You just contacted the engineers directly? Yes. >> Through the agent. >> Through the agent. What agent? >> No. Co Colby. Co. It's how we did it last time, >> right? >> Well, does Colby feel that he can get
another one for you? >> I already have a request out to two other uh firms. >> Oh, well, there you go. I mean, if you get two more in, you'll be protected anyway, but don't let the grant go to waste. >> No. No,
>> that's money that will protect the town, >> you know. So, everybody else is getting grant money. We should be getting it as well cuz we have a lot of taxpayers in town that give money, you know, that paid their taxes to the state and all of those grants come from the state.
>> Yes. >> Is this an MRPC grant? Was that through the >> Nasha River WHED? >> Okay. wild and grant >> and they've been really good with us
with the last grant and it it's worked out really well. So I guess the way I see it, let's be frugal as we can within money and I like I said I was just overwhelmed that we were at $21,000
>> to get those two lots surveyed. It's a lot of raw money. I get it. It's a grant money and I would expect and hope they want us to. >> How many acres? >> How many acres? >> It's not large area. >> Do you remember?
>> Yeah. >> 17 and 97 >> roughly. It's roughly 26 27 acres. >> Yeah. >> I can't get more specific. >> Yeah. And that's actually parcels that makes up one property than
one larger >> the bigger track. >> Yeah. Well, I'm not surprised. I mean, you can pay you can pay $3,000 for two acre lot, have it surveyed,
>> so that's not surprising. Um yeah, >> you you got my thoughts. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, we'll just wait for one more at least one more. >> Yeah. So, we'll continue this till the
next meeting. >> Yeah. Is it a rule of thumb or is it a pretty hard rule that we go for three? At least >> try to go for three. Unless there's >> every town looks at three quotes high. We everything three always a standard. All right.
>> I agree for three. >> Yeah. >> And it gives you who's being uh good to us or not. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um >> so we're good on that. >> I'm going to roll
in trouble, but uh we move on to 4.1 and 4.2. Um 30. Um these are for the same property, different numbers because they're for different organizations. One spot for greenways and one is historic
society and um there is >> all right. So be more specific. One of them relates to the rail trail >> in the trussles. >> Nothing to do with the church. Okay. >> Just the church area. >> But the rail trail
>> what we what we discussed on the phone earlier, right? >> Yeah. Let's back up. Kobe, you you're the one that did the site visit. >> Can you explain to me what you found? >> Yeah, the concerns are obvious. >> Yeah, maybe I can outline the issue a
little bit. Um, so main street >> in town and there's actually zero main street which is attached to that. So that's why there's two properties involved. Um, they is owned by the town historic society. Yes, sorry. Which is
an essential um that property actually has two uh conditions that are open on it right now and related. I don't have them. They are up there.
One OC is by the Hamilton Historic Society for the Harbor Restoration. >> Yeah. receptic system >> and excuse me the second that's related to it is to
greenways incorporated and that is for the railro >> um but they have that portion of the railroad goes through that parking lot that's why >> listed twice
>> yeah hot spot down there um let's see the fractions. Safe to say in fractions. I've listed in two letters there. Um >> you went down.
>> Yeah. Can we read that? >> What you sent out? >> These are these are draft. >> Okay. Cuz I was on South Street for a minute and it's Main Street. That was
me. I drafted letters up to each of them um as it pertains to their orders and picked out the infractions from the conditions listed in the orders. Um so one's going to go out the construction. The other one's going to go out to
list. >> Yeah. >> Which is what we refer to as >> that would be >> speak up so that they can No, no, keep asking your questions. These are all I'll just turn off my hearing aid. >> Everyone else wants to hear you, Jimmy,
because it's all pertinent information here. >> No, I understand. I just wanted to >> the erosion control that has been destroyed. >> Destroyed. Yeah. Um and it's open to the river pond there. Um
the there's a little bit of construction debris. There's an issue of stockpiling. There's um um and and all of these things are a little bit minor, but collaboratively gone. I mean, it's just kind of I'm going to use a joke. Can I use a joke?
>> Yeah. No, it's added. >> Beth Beth in our office came up with this one. The project there has gone off. >> Sorry. I don't get so far off the rails we can't get everybody. No, I get it. I know. Okay. >> Anyway, sorry.
>> I mean, I was there seven, eight months ago with >> Jessica when we went out there to put >> Yeah. >> sil fencing. Remember, we had to leave it open so they could get in. There's a lot of traffic, >> but now it's completely destroyed. No one's >> Oh, it's pummeled. There's no no doubt
about it. >> And I So, I I sent an email to the construction company and they said, "Well, it's so and so's responsibility." Now, that's the group in Greenville. >> Brooklyn, the construction company.
>> So, and so is wrong. Well, you're the one that pulled the permit. So, it's your problem. >> Yeah. And and and that kind of is part of the issue here, too. The party owner, which is Nordic Society, doesn't isn't really aware of who's actually working
there, who subcontractors are um >> on the insurance. So this is why I wrote up letters for the applicants of the >> right since I'll use the church specifically the applicant is the sport
society. >> Yeah. >> And I don't think there was any other contact list. So >> they are the responsible parties in you know one guy with one one draft there has my name and agent title on it
drafted one changes names. Um I don't know how this is I don't know how you guys want to approach it if it's this is too much >> things listed if you want to go after just a couple. Let's get >> this is
this is an option. >> It's a good I think this is a good exercise for us to go through. I think noting what kind of signs it I feel that it should be the conservation commission not just me for you in this case. Well,
the agent is a commission. The commission is const but this is being discussed with all of us right now and it you know obviously it's going to be it's not a imminent danger but there's >> things that need to be addressed.
>> There's potential there for some damage to the waterway. Oh, um I did mention in there too that you know it is a natural heritage >> NHSP um >> so they they're well informed.
Yes, there's rare uh it's in a rare wildlife protected area and right now because it's open to the water um they can come in the ts can come in lay eggs in stock ponds in the dirt there's
potential for that that wasn't discussed at a meeting though I don't think there was any national heritage >> I don't recall natural heritage being in it but you know what >> it does they extended their policy
old letter. >> I'm talking the church side of things though. I don't remember there being a national heritage letter issue. >> There is it's old though >> for the church or for the railway. >> There's a letter to for each one of the
greenways and for the church the church permit is from here not from 2018. No 2018 way back. for my time. >> Yeah, >> I can dig up documents if you need.
>> What is What going forward? How do we are we now waiting to hear back? >> Nope. We're going to we have to figure out this letter first and then >> then you're going to send it after we >> So there hasn't been any correspondence
sent out yet. >> I I corresponded to the construction company. correct >> requesting their compliance or to forward this these requests to the applicant. Um I had a verbal response but
um obviously we have to do it in writing. >> No, >> I'm standing out >> it's a pretty straightforward >> to contain it, clean it up.
and and secure it. Who's going to do it? We can't even figure that out right now. We've only >> No, I think you're going to send this to Spical Greenways. Who's it? Bill Ride out. Bill Ride out will take care of it. >> He'll make sure whoever is supposed to take care of it takes care of it. So
>> that's what I'm saying. >> But you got to do it to bull. >> You touch face with Ry out. He's the one that's going to be responsible. >> And you knew who to contact and blind. Yeah. contractor. So I don't even see a bill a heading of who that
company is there. >> He should have some degree of >> he knows who they are. I share the contact but >> the contractor >> I was given. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but that's not who the that's not who's
on the permit. It's source site. >> Maybe you should ask your friend Mary Jane to handle that. >> Separate. Completely separate. She's from the society. >> I I was told they're all separate. HDC
in the society >> on the Historic Society's website, but she is listed. >> Okay. You can reach out >> prestigious too. So >> I know but he he can reach out to her
too if you felt as though that would be a reasonable remedy. I was just being delusious. I'm sorry. So, this is basically just saying these are the infractions, but there's no
talk about consequences if they don't clean it up. Right. >> Yes. And I wrote that and you're right. I'm trying to learn from past experience >> has passed the history about how you might work.
>> I was trying to just outline >> what the problem is. >> Yeah. >> And I was hoping that you would well tailor it to method of contacting >> because I've learned in the past that I
you don't like the way I write the letters. So here's >> here's the input. >> Here's the first n and we have to spend the time to do it. We can't just push it off because then when it doesn't go the way we want it, we all get
so we have to take the time. Kobe, I appreciate you doing this. Um, this is for for society. Um, >> well, we're moving, you know, >> right?
>> It's funny because get them going. >> The the spoils that are left on that site are from the sidewalk that we put in minus the pile of stone. >> What? >> It was bangs that did that from
>> Yeah, they they completely destroyed the sens. It was already done, but they completely tore it out. >> So, where do we put an location of it being an active construction site regardless of >> it it it's got the septic system that's
got to go in. We've got to do all the tower work and so much work to to still get completed then, >> right? But if we fix everything up, get to fence everything, it'll go quick again.
>> Yeah. But that's the requirement of the project. >> We got to get it so it's been stabilized and addressed. So I mean can it be as simple as these the situation needs to be corrected as
opposed to you will receive a decease and desist order you know if you don't comply >> right >> so I think that >> yeah what happened to this what happened to the file number or the D sign that was there it was attached but it must be gone now
>> so I think these need to be corrected I'm available at uh you know you contact. Yeah. If you have any questions, you know, they can be corrected. If you have any questions, contact me. What's the streaming line on this as far
as the GC? I no this is a frustrating thing because it's it is >> a collective group and the guys that did the work at the church it's unfortunately it's their
responsibility but the the people that did the the sidewalk that used that as a staging area I I I don't know why that was allowed. Um, you've been town people that just drag their boats over the salt fence or back into the salt fence. They don't say
anything and they're like, "Oh, whatever." >> Um, >> it's a hightra spot. >> It is. That's why we had the opening of the salt fence. >> A hight traffic spot. >> So, >> cars pulling in, construction,
masonry, roofing, painting, all the mechanics are there. But regardless of it, let's get the silk fence up, cleaned up, and secured. >> Right. So, Kobe, I think this letter is great. It's a great start to this all um
>> for me, if I'm um one of Yeah. Okay. So, you get the size of the sign. Great. >> Is that for the D? Um, so from section C not being met. Um,
got it. Um, so there's a bunch of redundancy in here that I me I you know because it wrote if I'm an outsider looking at it just say again and again and I So I'm not
saying you're not you did >> so what are you saying you want it to be >> I think it should just be >> to the point what is necessary to get it Again, the this is a worksheet that I think we can
really this is a great start. So, I I would bullet point it. Keep the one page and say um erosion control. Um sign >> they had the D.
I'm I'm just looking back at that was up with Jessica. >> No, it's just like the erosion guitar things just get, >> you know, >> um >> those are usually put up with cardboard and sharp anyway.
>> Formal attachment name general conditions number 15 you have in there. That doesn't really pertain to us because it's storm water. Um, I understand where you're going with it, but I wouldn't include it in this letter.
>> Sorry. >> Well, number 15. Um, general condition from attachment a not being met. Um, number three, and it's it's just stated number 15. Um, I would just get
rid of that. Um, and then again, erosion control. >> We'll say I got all these things >> I don't and I don't think you did it. I just aim to for this letter to short and sweet. Um,
>> I think that's the best way. Um the the NHSP determination letter, you can reference it. If you do, just include a copy of it. >> Yeah. >> Um and then the construction disposal in dumpsters that definitely
>> dumpster. >> I don't know. Like there's some bag of bags of mort. >> That's all I saw when I went there. It was mentioned. We're all getting cranky and tired here.
>> Yeah. So, let's reank >> Pat didn't bring you treats tonight. >> I don't know why. >> I was not going to mention that. >> See, he was so upset last time. Um, >> it was just cuz you and you also have the spoils file.
>> Sorry, he wasn't up the park. I think the biggest impression is the erosion control >> in the trash. >> When it really comes down to all these, >> it's erosion control.
>> Yeah. So, clean it up a bit, be done with it. >> Um, in kind regards, I said I would put put all, you know, just conservation commission. Yeah, you can sign off on this. >> Okay. >> Um,
>> obviously keep your contact information. Uh, yeah. I just I just short and sweet as few words as possible in bold. Give them 10 10 not even 10, five
minutes or whatever. Give them a week. I see. Yep. >> You can >> We're hoping that this can be completed within a week tomorrow or tomorrow,
>> but you know, we can >> I'm just trying to avoid the >> Yeah. No, I know. But Mike's right. you know, we hope that this can be completed within this, you know, within five business days. >> There's an implication there, but it's
not stated that we're hoping because most contractors would jump on >> on something like this. >> So, I I don't know if certified letter is right, is the best way to do it, but you I know you kind of done that in the
past. Um, and you really don't know who the hell to send an email to because no one's >> Well, you have an email and send. >> Okay. So, that's what I would do.
>> If I have a email to back it up, I'm just send >> Yeah. >> Okay. Problem solved. And if you want me to proofread it before you do it, you send it to me. Um,
but short >> straightforward communications bold so they know what to read. >> Well, it's under the conservation, >> but this is not this is a great start. It reverse everything that should be included in these. So
um you know you start I got down there to look at silver you start looking and it's just messing and well part of the background is too is that there's fighting
groups here or >> he's talking about your group >> maybe that's strong it's uh what group historic society commission >> I don't know where is region I mean they're not communicating this is hopefully this is
going to get them organized at least down there. So >> you just want to see it cleaned up. We all do. >> I still don't understand what you mean by >> they're not happy with these gentlemen say a green because of this problem.
>> I don't know much about it but was there some issue with the the the trestle? That was the big issue. They went to the zoning board of appeals, didn't they? >> Different. That's considered soft. >> No, but Col's right at the same time.
>> No, let's just stay on on point with what this is. I don't agree with the >> This is the right avenue. As convoluted as we've gone discussing this, uh, but you need an EU sign, you need
>> Yes. D sign. Shame on them. They they should make sure it's updated, but I recall it being there. I saw it when we were going. I originally did the Jessica had sent me down to look at the silks. >> Yes, that was a point of contention.
>> We had to leave it open and curled. And some people said, "Well, you got to when you go in, put the silk on." It was foolish back then. So, let's >> Well, it wasn't foolish and it worked until someone some people backed into it.
It's construct act after construction side. You know, we get that all cleaned up and it'll deteriorate quick again and send out more letters. You you spoke to the No, no one wants to take this one. So,
>> nobody wants >> it's a fingerpointing game. So, send an email. >> Okay. contact people at home. Are we done? >> No. >> Ajourn. >> We got distracted by a freaking map.
>> That was kind of cool. Can we go back to it? >> Are you still with us? >> I am barely, but I am. >> Poor Kobe over there. >> Ready? I I I'm just about done. Mic's
all good though. >> Um, so 4.3 DCR cutting plan Otter River complex. I didn't realize we were part of this. Um, I don't know history, but uh, the DCR has prepared drought resource management plan for the following 13 properties in it. Otter
River complex as state parks. Uh Jay Hary Rich State Parks, Lake Dennis Rec area, Lton uh State Parks, Otter River State Parks, Pearl Hill State Park, Fisham State Forest, Royston State Forest.
>> Did you say? >> Yeah, >> that's a big I mean they're talking about the dam. >> Squad Brook State Forest, Templeton State Forest, Town State Bars, Willard Brook State Bars, and Winon State Forest. Um, copies of the plans are available on
the Central Highlands District RMP's web page. Uh, the public is invited to write comments during the meeting after the presentation by unmuting their microphones or the chat functionality that will be available through the virtual participation but form, excuse
me. After the meeting, the uh presentation will be available for viewing on DCR's past events for DCR public meetings information web page. DCR urges the public to share additional feedback with a deadline for receipt of comments by
DCR September 20th, 2025. Comments may be submitted via the DCR public comment portal. Uh please note that the content of comments you submit to DCR along with your name, town, and zip code uh may be posted on DCR's website for additional
contact information requirement commenting. Notably, email address will only be used for outreach on future updates on the subject, project or property. Um that is posted on the conseration
commission's website. Um, and we have the completed forest cutting plan uh for Old Turnpike Road. This is Townsen Cemetery and Parks Department, 4.46 acres and they took
42,000 board feet out of there. 43,000. Not bad. Mostly white pine and a little bit of red pine black and birch anything. Nothing
in there. There's a name of someone to use for resetting plan right in there. >> Name for harst or right there. >> Yeah. Interestingly, the red pine scale was brought to my attention by a forester from
>> Yeah. New Hampshire there called up >> talk talk to him. >> Yeah, too. So, >> um, is there anything else anyone would like to add?
MACC has the fall conference at Evans this year. Um and they have a fun fundamentals um classes uh coming up. >> Check that out. >> Did you do you must have done all those
online, right? >> Oh, Holy Cross. >> Holy Cross. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Which is a nice post though. >> Yeah. Minus everything that was everything that was on the agenda tonight. Um, is there anything for next
meeting that >> Okay. >> No, I don't have anything. >> So, almost everything um formally agenda tonight was continued. Um, that you good?
>> I'm good. >> Next meeting is August 27th. Um, quick question curiosity. Where do we stand? We are not presently pursuing looking for a land use coordinator was we're running the office
right now with just a question or a comment. >> It's a question. Are you being five different ways? >> Administrator could answer it better, but my knowledge we were not intending
on filling that position. So that's the as I was once already. >> Yeah. >> You haven't pursued it. You haven't. You can't. It is what it is. >> Little guy on the >> So in other words, we're looking at >> it's not really for me to ask.
>> I will say the responsibilities are being covered by three of us. everyone in do something. >> So now you're the one that's doing the grant writing >> and he's taking on >> as the stuff comes in. I from what I
understand they just try to help but I don't know much more about it than I think does. I think just gets thrown at it. But I >> it it should be a question that would be asked, you know. Hello. Hey, why don't you ask the slair that's on?
>> Hi, Lori. Are you there? >> See, it was a test. >> She's not. So, I'll see. Okay. I'm curious cuz it's it, you know, is the workload too much? >> I'm here.
things up to speed. I guess my question being Lori, do you know if there are any plans on bringing in the land use coordinator's position again? >> We don't have >> We don't have the money.
>> We don't have the money. >> We need We need that position. Um we had a number of years um when another TA was in town that it never got filled. >> Um
>> I was there through those times now. >> But as it stand in in discussion that position is not being looked at or we're not looking for somebody at the moment. >> We are not looking for somebody at the moment.
>> Okay. We need to get through the negotiations um with the unions um >> yes >> that begins tomorrow. >> So not in a position to say anything
um now. >> Okay. Thank you for coming and answering the question. >> So it is 9:01. Someone want to make a motion? >> Okay. Just add one little thing. >> Yes. >> There seems to be some discrepancy as to
how a written pond is cons how what it is considered to be. And sometimes there's a 100 foot buffer and sometimes it's a 200 foot buffer. And um I think for most of us along one edge it's a 100 foot buffer but then the
Rossies when they filed and I can't remember the name of the woman Auburn Autumn. >> Autumn. >> Autumn. Autumn. >> Okay. She might be the one I'm not sure that thought it was the 200 foot buffer. I think yeah, it would have been all
there that long time. >> And she I I'm pretty sure I talked to her at one point several years ago and she said that oh there's an inlet and an outlet and I explained to her no inlet or outlet.
>> Yeah, that's like the the the big thing about Mitten Pond. >> It's a contained water body. It's spring >> fully isolated. Oh yeah. They think it's springfed intermittent streams run off >> from the snow melt.
>> There's that's there's no permanent water right now going into it. No runoff going into it or streams. >> And um >> how big is the pond? >> What's that? >> How big is the pond? >> 15.6 acres. Something like that. >> Wow.
>> Is it listed as a great pond? >> I believe it is. Yes, it is. That I mean I know it from even as a kid that has no water inlet and no water >> the the um
designation of the brick pond is sounded like you had more to it. >> Um there is but can I look at it um and get back to you tomorrow? Um >> look at what
>> you're right Mike it's a contain it's no spring >> but I know that the there is something to the great ponds thing um but Kobe said he look at it >> okay but for those of us who have filed
for work um along the bitten pond road and not around where the Rossies were um it seems that every it's always been considered 100 ft. And so the question is why why was that project or why is there work why is it
considered 200 ft and I think it's because of the misconception that it was >> quite it's possible it and it does happen. >> Yeah. >> You had stuff that the past ruin it shouldn't have. Well, when when Beckers
who are fixing up the place, >> Rossy's property, >> Rossy's property, correct? >> There might be other things that they want to do and so they're curious why if why it's 200 for them and not everyone else.
>> I think that sounds like misinformation. Anything around Pond is going to be 35 foot. There's a but the great pond designation I think has something to do it but Kobe said he broke it up.
>> I think that came along at the time of the river front protection. Say 86 or 96. >> I think it was 86. >> 86. >> 86. >> Thank you. I don't know if that if uh >> I remember seeing the great pond being
something. Um, so >> I I've read these read it like five times, but I will get I've got some literature and information to you. >> When I've opened up the scan of worms and anyone along I mean sound a row now
will be considered 200 ft. >> I mean especially because it's a contained body of water. It's even more fragile than any other water area. Bon pond is a a jewel in
towns and if you look at do your history on it >> so many rules to it though like like isolated waters have to be a c certain size and certain parameters. >> Oh there's criteria to how you classify it.
>> Yeah. But just in the you can verify how nice, how clean, how pristine it is. Very rarely >> a bladder wart to see here. >> Huh? >> Bladder wart. >> Lots of bladder wart. >> Yeah. >> Well, this is good to pursue. I'll get
>> that's a that's a great segue to talk about at some point is the aquatic evasives. Not just there, but also the harbor pond. You and I had a brief conversation about that. >> What is it? The mil foil.
>> Any any of it. >> Miller foil is probably one of the stronger people to what's going on across the street from me, which I've mentioned. We've got a big stand of uh ragman's commonry coming in. >> You know, people, you know, known to
clean off their boats and kayaks, >> right? So far we >> we're good because no props are allowed. >> Correct. >> So So nothing gets in there. >> Yeah. So it reduces the >> you never know possibility. Oh, sure.
>> But there's been years it's been pretty bad down there sometimes. >> I mean you couldn't swim out of the island. It was so thick. And >> that wasn't that wasn't bladder wart. Now it's this year it's bladder work, >> right? >> That was that was milk foil. But it
wasn't Eurasian mil foil. is that >> you are. >> No, we have it's 9:08. >> I make a motion we adjourn at 9:08. >> Who's got a second? >> Second.
>> Roll call vote. >> Mike. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Yes. All right.