##VIDEO ID:be4pzp16BQU## i' like to call the order the December 11th uh Town Conservation Commission meeting at 7:01 PM I have a roll call please James Dyan Pleasant Michael P present James Gates Kevin Smith you leaving usge Ali to the flag the United States of America to The Republic which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all wonderful happy that I saved you all that money yeah you're supposed to sign this no thank you I don't sign it until my lawyer reviews of anything I don't sign anything is there a new rule about that no meeting is being recorded is anyone else recording name from pond yeah they are yeah used fins oh yeah well one is he's she's not okay good evening Bob he's still AOL Boer okay Bob is actually a member of the zoning member of the zoning booving a little slow tonight because we're early welcome to the Conservation Commission um no he's a chair additions and deltion I just said so 3.1 anymore are you sorry uh Chairman's additions and orations 3.1 the volunteer request for Bill R cannot attend our meeting tonight so we going to move that to January 8th he on the historic hisor mission was onion Society he is one of those that spearheaded to the rail trail so he has been in front of us many times and he will be would have been here for the rail trail nope he would have been here he wants to join the commission oh cool uh January 8th meeting yes that will be the next when he'll be in yes my next meeting and he he's been in town quite a while three here B can't call down he but he's been here a long time heck of a nice fell he spearheaded the rail trail historical commission met him I met him down when we did that sight so briefly he he's a he's AER engineer uh background experience Masters in physics um but he has worked for well over 20 years with permitting and the creation of the swanic hook River Rail Trail yeah no you have that he was with Pat and everybody at that meeting for the bridge yes yes y I am I am reasonably arated with them nice guy [Music] yes oh he's a Haba man yeah just good good will that will that fill us no one more that we're getting there though better we need to I want a woman on here we don't want we don't want competition with you we're just fine with you you know we're sorry God don't take it person yeah yeah you know what is and I I'll say this probably till the day I die is you know I wish only wish there was more people in our community they would want to give freely of their time in other words yeah he's got to be spread yeah he's got to be spread pretty thin you know there's few people that fewer of us yeah right there's a perfect example there's fewer of us as we get older that you know can take a couple hours you know three hours twice a month you it's it's a very sad thing I've served on many commit years some of them since the Inception of the committies it's tough no I agree I got I'm in the middle of B Andy and then I stop down something oh yeah um run through correspondence um so 4.11 Depot Street Extension um zba notice of a ditch uh decision zba has gred perit Kevin Smith for construction of AG restricted residential development of a pre-existing non-conforming property located at one Depot Street Extension that where is that the table oh I didn't know they sign in even if you have um so and then uh 4.2 249 Main Street board notice decision the planning board granted a special permit um to am Shai sha uh shop to rever a commercial property into two separate commercial units and operate a UPS store which will be welcome yes anything from my UPS Brothers I guess it was a little bit of trouble with it because of parking he had said when he originally had spoken to me about it but I said but they seem to have worked it out with the bi um came with yeah that's a great thing to it is what's worse than having something you got to RTS or get back I don't want to go to lar I want to go to skap it's nice to have one close we all have that the building where they sell the shoes Evans yeah I think they might it might be like AR but they'll be able to label it Ure it do the whole process I mean they do it there too but you got to have it all filled out I don't think I don't think they do that they used to because I I used to bring my stuff there right see huh 18 Main Street notice 18 Main Street uh planing board notice of decision this is for the Starbucks going into [Music] the planning board has issued a permit for that [Music] Main Street notice [Applause] prision office yes um next fin next to Mi yeah modification to a special permit site plan has been granted are they miss a completion we modify the special site okay or the special per site I don't know anything about it so figure for parking lot out back I think they had it wrapping around before now they don't yeah Gary I I don't know 4.5 ma CC 2 um our dues amounts for fisal year 26 will be $320 Katie said that was less than last year something so Mike this is something that once we get an agent or land use coordinator that we can get you on um or maybe Saina can in Aller free time on the webinar um MC offers class mic that the town pays for um for wetlands and everything associated with being conservation commissioner so Jessica told me about them and I think she registered me I had to I think I'm pretty sure pretty sure maybe guy I hope did you have you received an email from him yet um not sure you're welcome to reach out to them okay um Mrs ger still I have no idea I think Mrs Dr is most likely your contact show okay so well I'll check yep some notes like I had said you it's kind of nice to go to to the meetings you need a lot of people yeah so so the MCC AR due until next fiscal year which is uh July 1st 2025 so at a later date we will vote on on it um so that that's up to 30020 is actually lower than last year I think 35050 was last year I was going to say that's that's a good thing for us Trump in office price is going downin opinions opinion do not gonna here here's the next one I want to just throw on to us 4.6 nasty epsd a intervention withdrawal for 76 Barker Hill Road so other way when you say it's withdrawal let me I will reive the letter or I'll summarize it um Mass DP has ple review of our appeal to the RDA for the do determination of pability issued uh to the applicant by uh towns and concom on October 24th 2024 the EP intervened in the commission's decision on November 4th 2024 the appeal and the intervention was made in accordance with mass uh WPA masteral Law chapter 131 subsection 40 and its regulations 310 cmr1 Point 00 the commission issued a positive DOA overturning The Perennial stream classification for an unnamed stream located partially on 76 Parker over in towns m in this case because the documentation submitted to the commission during the RDA review was inadequate to overturn perennial status for uh 310 CMR uh 10.58 to1d on November 13th M DP can conducted a site visit at the property with you your Wetlands consultant and members of the commission that was there was there um and I were there um at site visit unform m P that you to provide additional documentation of dry stream conditions during a non- drought period you also stated the primary purpose of overturning The Perennial stream classification is to facilitate the construction um of a gage within existing Lawn and Landscape areas of the property approximately 150 ft from the bank of the stream as Ste observed a tarp cover shelter shed storage shed within the an undeveloped for of the 100 foot buffer zone in the in the southern part of the property you informed Mass T that Wetland permitting uh was not sought nor received for the installation of this shed and DOA does not propose the back permitting of the shed subsequently we confirm that the shed will be removed during construction of the garage on November 14th and November 15th he provided ASD with additional materials documenting no flow condition within the stream of the property the photographs demonstrated four days of no flow conditions during June and July 2024 non drout period um based on an evaluation of the new information n DPS determined that the requirements of 310 CMR 10 um 5821 D to overturn The Perennial status of the stream has have been met there for Mass D sends our intervention and regards issuing authority back to the commission D thanks you and the commission for your probation in this matter sincerely J that was J that day right no that was uh Rebecca yes okay he's are way too good so as far as the commission goes that that you know our decision was based on the facts and which were those pictures provided to us were for those dates but the dates were not on the actual photo and that had to be included that was disgusted and he provided that and he so that's a good thing nice job you like that yeah that's all of us and you st a a bit longer after Jimmy and I had left right I know Mike did but you know I hope that things were learned that's what back with the D yeah and the yeah I I didn't stay much longer because it wasn't anything really discussed well we left you in Char you were the lead person after me and Jimmy yeah okay so you're not ready for that yeah I think you're right I think I do agree so again that is in my opinion uh that's a good thing for us it's fair logical and fair yeah the right thing to do so and they were prompt um the owner had she did get out there relatively quickly yes which is nice so we're going to move on to 2.1 is 78 can't really P them off any any longer Mike okay and he's going to have to recuse himself correct yeah he can he can speak for himself though represent himself all right so not guys I'm I'm actually here right now to help Mike out the um other meeting hasn't gotten to me yet hold on okay that's good then M this is your La Land engineer yeah but hold on I got try to figure out how to see who else is here public [Music] no us you have the window oh here it [Music] is do you have one of those yeah Kevin okay um so now 718 uh 2.1 notice 1022 sa Road twb 2024 197 e 308 and that's it we do not have a complete um number applicant is Jam poot said and Mike poot said uh project status is rais or Rin uh rebuild a single family home within 100 foot buffer of Bank of Von pond good evening ladies and gentlemen uh Matt Mar represent I'm sorry open the hearing so I'm sorry I like to make a motion to open the hearing for this uh do I have a second Jimmy got it um roll call vote please Mike James dran present yes no yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes Pat definitely yes right um pursuant to the the mass WPA and towns Wetland bylaws the towns and conom will hold a public hearing on Wednesday December 11th 2024 at of approximately 7:15 p.m. the hearing will be held virtually via Zoom um and in person at Town Hall on a notice of inent filed uh with the Conservation Commission by James poad um the property is located at 22 sa Road parcel ID 2-1 15-0 the proposed project is raise and rebuild a single family home within 100t copper of Bank of vitten pond parties wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so uh at the meeting or in writing prior to the meeting copies of the application are available for review at Town Hall business hours now he's from shley road yeah Matt are these white sheets the certificate of mailing that's in in L of the little green cards that's correct the um regulations allow for certificate of mailing um as you guys know I did get an email um from wab butter asking me for a copy of the plans so because I usually offer them um you know a free PDF copy of whatever they want um and I did get one taker um and I did send the email over to the selectman's office so that they would have a record of that so so the did get a PDF yes Senate Monday Monday all right um um that we uh vote to deny the grant of a waiver for the delineation that you Matt yes okay no I I hear someone talking I'm just trying sounds like it's down there with heartley it was woman talking just making sure grandson now he's out of the picture oh yeah that's him nice nice how old Four's 22 and he's an electrician he helps me for nothing Matt on the uh what's Matt's last name um on the Butter's list there are some that aren't on the the certificate of mailing well I mean as far as I know everybody was notified um we're going to have to continue as it is because we have no D number so I can R notify for the January 8th meeting if that's okay oh wait no no there's some different there's some duplicates on here yes because of because of what it is you don't have any green CS you want me no no this is what they you can do this now okay so it comes right from the post yeah so 31 SAA Road Ro that's US 31 or we're 31 he's 31 we own 22 live in 31 oh yeah the two okay sorry can you throw trust in there or this in there oh yeah the states you're just protecting yourself I understand so okay Matt you're good with the certified mailings they all make sense so essentially what we have here is the the existing house the staircase um everything in the existing footprint on 22 sauna road is proposed to be raised and rebuilt in place with the exception of the deck the deck is going to be left alone um the floorboards will be disconnected from the foundation um and then reconnected um after uh the New Foundation is put in um nothing is going to change from the existing footprint erosion protection is shown on the plans um there's going to be no filling no change in elevation nothing everything's just basically a new house is going to pop in where the old one was that's it and I'm just waiting to hear if theep has any comments they want addressed well there's a slight modification that uh my son has um made in the plans and because back in the day when they first put in the place uh they weren't as concerned with boundaries so in fact um the the one person who U expressed interest in getting a copy of it um I talked to Matt about the deck in fact the deck the few inches of the deck down by the water is on the neighboring property okay and on the street next to the street uh that little bump out which uh includes the bathroom on the inside um two or three inches of that is uh across the boundary so that was a bump up that was a foundation though as I looked at it am I correct right okay the foundation itself is within the pro oh yeah the original Foundation but that was added later back in the 60s when the Wilsons bought it they put they put the bathroom on yeah so you you you don't want to do that you're better off to to leave it the bump out out of it I think you I think we discussed that when we were there well we talked about moving it moving it in enough so that there's no question so it's not going to into butter right you want clean paper you don't want that bent on somebody else that could turn around bite you he he showed me that in on the site I remember that and in terms of the the deck you know we'll make sure that um it's well away from the boundary that's that's an easy one to to solve to the front of on the water area that could be resolved by simply cutting it back a little that's right it's going to be replaced okay and uh when it's replaced it'll be um away from the away from the boundary okay yeah because like Kevin say you don't that's a SL pretty slope yeah I know we talked about that on site and that the you what do you this one from you can see that this Edge right there is on Boundary across the boundary and that's your cousins that's Jane's cousin Larry's yeah so and that's where you gonna okay move it in enough so that it's away from the boundar off of the other people's boundaries okay we jumped ahead on agenda what do you mean just keep going like M and the other change is that uh to um minimize the possibility that somehow we compromise the road it would be pulled back about a foot and a half from the front uh um front front boundary front corner of the existing home yeah you sliding it back towards back away from the road a foot away from the foot and a half and then to comp say for that our son who's made up these detailed plans has a a canal lever that's going to make up the square footage difference but the the footprint will be the same we can't delete yes okay okay understood you there do you have very thin the tight spot they're working within what they got you were up there 1.4 three times yeah forever we both been going by the 100 for 100 years I think what he's doing is definitely an improvement to the to the site well originally when we bought it um we were going to just remodel it and then I even have a stack of 2x4s that I ripped that I was going to add to the the 2x4 construction when they remodeled uh Tom wi Wilson before he sold it uh the third of the structure that was closest to the pond was uh a big Screenhouse it was just a Screenhouse and then they made that into a permanent uh construction it was and it must have added enough weight on that corner that you can actually on the inside you can see a crack in the foundation that's definitely it's lifting and there are some other issues the block U has cracks in it I guarantee tomorrow after this rain there's going to be water pooling on the inside Corners so so we you know quickly decided that that wasn't a real option was good pretty straightforward Landing elevation start changing any of this I think it's just kicking back and now it's going to the timber landing at the bottom will change that'll go away actually C fo and a half in from the road from the road yep y if it's over the wall right here it's if it's over the line right half in in out yeah that will just be cut out K this back move this back slightly off the exis and why is it that we were moving it down away from the road it's so close to the road there's an i in corner pin okay it's got a got a re BL corner pin between him and um the neighbor the neighbor to the west you get a chance to do a visit oh yeah yeah she what are your thoughts everything what they're talking about it looks good I mean you know I I know about the trees being moved and where they're talking about um as far as the front with the deck and everything so that little that little bottom clip be is over which is going to be when it's replaced oh yeah yeah so we' established that I don't know how Jim's going to want to decide upon it in this little corner here which is that concrete that's on cousins right is this a pump septic system yes yes and it was a new system across the street which you realize over ex I I know it's across the street so the reason I asked that is what is what are the measures going to be taken to prevent anything from um going backwards I know there's check valves in the system and everything but always looking at that would be what's the worst case I acoss the I mean literally across the side of the road is it gravity to that it's it's it's gravity across it's gravity across the road to a septic tank I believe Y and then and uh and and then it's pumped up so do we have a holding tank nothing on all all the toilets think everything is on the other side of the road it's going pipe coming out of the top of the House Road all pumping systems are in the there'll be there'll be a there'll be a pump there'll be a pump in the in the Celler correct but it's just a lift pump just to pump it up to what would be gravity I believe and send bathroom the bathroom will be on the first floor well so I'm I'm thinking during the construction process oh okay of how do you prevent you know anything from discharging back I know it's gravity but the gravity on these systems isn't is minimal it's 2 2 and half during construction during construction there would be of it no there wouldn't be use of it but it'll be cut off ground water through the top well the best thing to do with that would be cut cut it at the edge of pavement and just cap it you you pump that tank prior to anything just to be safe why would you need to if I um getting a gist of this the uh septics system is not connected to anything there's not no functional toilet or sink in there right I'm sorry hasn't even been utilized so that hasn't had any ability a mute mute concern it's it's a mood Point correct mute or moood which way we going whatever call James in my house I like that one so no the plan is that you know once it's not even in use yet so once constructed then we either work with the highway department and with you know I've been assured that you're already you're already across the road and everything right with that system with the new system over to the house no you haven't even gone across the road no worries at all no well that it does work because that needs to be taken into account for this you're gonna so that's another part of this because it's within the 100 foot buffer it needs to be represented on the plan yeah because there you got to have the pipe going across a good point you know that would have been the discussion with Jimmy that there's going to be a point in time where there's going to be a tar cut and a line drop or well it should be on should be on the plan it should be in represented on the plan okay so does it need just to be represented on the plan or do we need need to talk to the highway department and come up with a plan with that dep doesn't have anything do well no they do sectionally technically it is it is a town way right there because the Town Road technically ends Steve's driveway what was Smith's driveway Steve Smith driveway yeah Donis Don and Steve yeah so it it's a variable with existing 150 year old Old Road that serviced those camps and Dr rossy's house right that's why I was amazed at it Al the Town Road technically ended at that old Gate Post Yeah at at the Smith okay so we need to have yeah um so he needs to put forth a schedule of when the septic system is hooked up when he scheduled it in with with the town well the town's not going to put it in his engineer and his people put needs to do is he needs to go see Jim Smith probably with a plan from the engineer sketch from the engineer showing a road cut so part of that and going across the road getting it across the road probably at time of B because this is going to be all reported this should also the plan should be imposed on this yeah it should um so that it's it's all included in the order condition we know you are and that's a separate order conditions but just because you want if you keep a plan up to date it's easier in the long run should he should show that septic over here on this plan he should show the he should show the line coming out of the house left side right side wherever it's going to be like and showing it going across the variable WID whatever the hell it is I don't think it's very wide right there it's only probably 20 it said yeah 14t right away so in other words with the new sub system that was put in in 2022 all they have to do is just cut and past it on this plan yeah just show it on show pipes arees are going yeah num so reference all that information on your new sutic plan all that it'll all be there right we have that it's matter Jimmy wants is that plan demonstrated here so we know where the debox connection is where the going to go across the road from the house the right variable with 14ot wide because you're going to probably depending on how they look at this road you probably have to go to the select and get a permit to do an open cut on the town Ro most likely they require a permit for okay and they're gonna want to see a plan um but because it's within a 100 foot buffer it needs to be represented on this plan um and can I ask Jim Smith is he would be the town Highway oh yeah superintendent DPW DPW whatever it is Highway and we don't get him to go out there and take a look at it and he can give you just the direction to travel um from the town's P Town selectman's perspective um it is an existing there there was something there obviously in the past right right um all of those houses on that side I think the septics are across the road Le some of them that have septics um and uh so they've all gone across under the little 14 normally right away is 50 ft wide to 40 ft wide 40 ft being about the narrowest today this happens to be 14t wide like I say that was a c Road horses used to go up through there horses and Buggies three years ago yeah and model T's so they didn't need a 25 foot wide Road everybody that travels up that road when they meet their neighbor that's that's coming back from the grocery store somebody pulls over onto somebody's yard the other guy pulls into somebody else's yard and they kind of squeeze by one another in right just the right spot and uh and it's it's worked for 100 years it's not like it's a high traffic area you got you got Dr rossy's Place Smith place and then those few camps that are homes after you let's keep this neat and tidy all right now just quickly um several people have mentioned to us that there's uh some people can actually drill under the road without disturbing you can do a horizontal drilling this would be a Cate be a good Cate because it's all sand horizontal drill trenchless and it's such a short push correct you know and we y yeah um the other thing is and we've done it on projects in the past is the need sometimes it's good to have a double silk fence especially with the elevation change here and you want to double the wles or you want I would say double Waddles and Sil fence one row of Waddles at the bottom right at the end of his deck the water the water is 25 feet from the deck night now because the water's low and it's to come up Spring but put a row put a double row of U of uh Waddles and a row of Sut Pence right at the bottom yeah but I'm talking another row of Sut Pence too we did that on to the bottom you feel com you feel that that it's going to need it it is sand no I know right and it's a real aggressive down radiant so if that water starts chucking down through there it wasn't if the road wasn't right there yeah I suppose yeah you could but I think the still for anything to catch anything that could blow into construction I would be afraid that if it's going to blow out it's going to blow out that and now Pawn can get real windy up there fortunately the wind usually blows across the pond up towards us toward the girls so but uh yeah we we'll put all the Waddles you want in fact um well that's something that should be depicted on the plan so that when be gets the revised copy they they'll wear that that's taking taken into consideration so can you show me where exactly we need to put the models well so you got do they it dises the existing just WD there's no Sil PS no no Sil so it needs sils too absolutely I thought that what you were referring to by no I'm sorry oh this should be Waddles and Sil fence is is it possible well I can get another one of on that one and I can take it you've got another copy here too so you got plenty of them to make notes on and copy and Matt is obviously not with us still he signed off so he should have been maybe but you'll get these footnotes to him y yep Y and then do another world went down yeah well so water and Sil pens where it's marked and then do another row of it you know down closer to the water yeah the biggest thing is that Silk fancing to keep any debris from blowing in and and to prevent if you have a wash out when it washes it's going to wash it's G it's t that would be just so much speed in a short amount of time going down that Hill so a lot of the prevention should be to the top of the hill as much as the sides I'm also not supposed to be you're just footnoting it that's all requests yeah that needs to septic sorry interrup can you guys hear me again yes ma okay sorry my computer just froze and I had to restart it so I wanted to let you guys know that oh thank you you missed all the good stuff welcome back man I I really apologize guys that it's that's really weird no it's okay we're not going to take any points today Matt no demerits none none Jack we're gonna give you points is it okay if I tell you what what I you tell me what I missed um yeah so you have Waddles on the plan we we feel that it should be Waddles and Sil Pence but not but it should be doubled um so two two rows of waddle two rows of silt Pence you know with walking path in between um just because of the the grade change from the road down to the pond and remember thead one somebody else is I know so you're gonna have well this this one won't be any problem at all this one we'll talk little about it well I mean you can trench in the silt fence too so that will actually help with the double row of Waddles well no we think we feel that having a second silt fence inste of second two Sil Fen and Waddles yeah you know and leave a space in between so if one fails there's that that second catch and the road up top is you know the water that could could come off of it in one of those heavy rains better safe than sorry okay so is is it um that make your Christmas or holiday Gatherings weird filled the pond with sot so if this is our property we'll say that this is the house yeah so um on the other side of the stairs onto here there would be is it water W Sil Sil fence right with space in between so that the first Sil fence Falls it has room to you know and roughly in between is just walkable distance five six feet whatever is feasible oh that much so or three feet whatever so it adds up to 15 feet maybe something like that I can't design that okay right okay got it um the other thing Mt on this plan is the location of the existing well yeah the well is not located it's on the and then the as built for the septic that was put in which I know is under a different D permit um should be on this plan and also the propos Crossing in the road because that's going to have to go get a permit for the open cut or if they're going to we Mike asked about trenchless excavation also for that so you basically want Evan carone's do you want the entire septic system or just that area in the road for the Force main that leads to the house if you're going to do the if you're going to copy and paste it I would copy and paste the whole thing all right I can I can work on getting that done you know that's how I'm assuming that's how you probably do it just get that external reference well I mean I I can give an electronic copy of evans's plan to Chris perah who did this plan and Chris can take the data and just superimpose it on his okay whatever works just so we see it so who will put in the location Matt will too right because how do you know exactly where it is without tracing it right what J Who's going to put the well location in we should have that on the map too I was gonna say Evan Evan's data should have the well location to do a well offset so all right good I will talk to Evan about that tomorrow that shouldn't be an issue and part of that is if he's going to have a plan he might as well have a complete plan so that later and we have all that information it'll be on again you know doing this the road crossing that's within the 100 foot Wetland buffer so that's on us but he's going to have to take this and figure that permit out with the town 70 feet so what else Pat I'm going to go back to you again I don't know if you have anything you want to add to or thoughts or concerns no not 100 Kevin no it was cut and dry considering the circumstances it's an you know existing L that's been there for 100 years the foundation is shear it needs to be be replaced I don't have any problem with the project itself just uh you know the like I say the biggest issue obviously is is 's RO control and and you know kind of getting a little permission from the neighbors to try to to to at least use this little section to put some uh put some uh Waddles on at the very least um yeah but and it's nice you know you have the pond elevations on the visits so and I don't know what the foundation Height's going to be was well above it it's it's from what I could see I would if I had to take a while guess at it I'd say it's what eight eight8 feet above the mean high water mark if not maybe even put it right almost at the no sorry sorry 10 people mind um maybe not quite that much but it's clearly above five six feet we talking about the foundation yeah we just talking elevation versus the mean high water mark yeah I was going to say it should be a minimum of about 5et BAS on what I'm seeing um on the data yeah you could be right could be very you could be very right at the pond no no right down rise up right now the water's low and my evaluation of that was from that based on the proposed sell floor elevation yeah that it looked like it was five or six feet or better what would be I water Spring Run let's make it easy Matt can you put the proposed solar floor elevation on there I think Mike has it in his so deck elevation 48 4.6 okay I see why you want that he again no no I'm here so Waddles yeah my wife just informed me the reason why I was having computer problems is because of whatever we're having for a storm the power I guess blinked it made all of my routers reset oh so it looked like all of you guys were sitting there like Frozen like mannequins so but my computer's on a battery I guess when I restarted it it started around the same time the internet came back on so again I appreciate the Indulgence here so we got Waddles that you want and silt fence and double rows you want the septic outlined on it and you want the top you want the top of the bottom of floor what cell lower first lower cell floor uh elevation because up because it's kind of a tri level yes it's all gonna be step tell me actually that's an excellent term for it Tri level yeah well that's that'd be the term I'd use that's what we used to call them when we did them and given de that information is never they they like KN that stuff for some reason then it's then it's on there as far as elevation elevation off the the the lower level second level top foundation proposed top of foundation such proximity to the pond and anything you know showing a trench location crossing the road uh Matt with and showing the septic box on the other side leechfield box and on the other side of the road and showing the existing well location you don't have it it's got to be there he's got to yeah just got to get it put it on the data and get it in there okay a lot of that is probably combining Evan's data along with Chris's data which I can have Chris do I will talk to Evan about it just to make sure I have all of the data because he has all of that already done I have a lot of his stuff on my computers already um so I can just basic give that data to yeah whatever magic they so it won't old school way they just take one guy work and they load it right lay it right onto the survey instead of having another another plan another level um so this needs to be done for the next meeting January that's hold on let let's talk Matt do you think you can have this done for January 8th or should we wait until the 22nd no I'd go to the eth I I don't think there'd be a problem getting it done all of that information is available C I just I want to make sure I don't want to yeah well no and I appreciate that I probably would have asked for longer if it was going to require some more survey work or other shots or other types of locations but the data has already been gathered here so it's just a matter of having them sit down at their computers and taking care of it that that that's what that amounts to that's why I say the eight should work so well location we'll have the septic we'll have cross has a list on things that we looking for the EP would want that want that elevation too at the bottom yeah just because here's floor elevation right and there's times on that pawn that I've seen it halfway up my aunts and uncle stay away there that that pond can get very high sometimes so it just confirms that the height is where it needs to good wow so I'll make a motion to continue um the notice of intent hearing 22 son ra road to January 8 2025 second Kevin second roll call vote please supposed to get that one Jim Duran yes James Gates yes Kevin Smith yes yes to thank you my thanks and again I apologize for the um you have to check out your turn to say goodbye be quiet leave all right guys away go away have a good night thank you you um so we'll do the meeting minutes after comes in this next um hearing chair report I don't have anything to add we we're just trying to keep going without an agent they have they're on their second round of good evening Mr how are you sir good thank you for joining us tonight you always enjoy your company now you have your your copy all ready to go to give to Matt all right ready I got to try to order use your EXT I'll put him here a least you have something to look at that's almost 20 20 years old relationship with the Mr you been [Music] is this stuff you have to make sure you put in the right process for Saina [Applause] did you were you able to PR the [Music] see if we can try to get through this no worries Mr H is here um oh you don't mind introducing yourself and who you're representing who we're the property location uh bman BNC Associates representing Brad H the afcan the one Brown Road um looking to put a an addition and a deck onto his existence family house so we were here at the last meeting and I just to a bunch of questions that I wasn't privy to because I had to go to a hearing and concert but I'm here to answer any questions you may have now okay um so there was well Sabrina is printing off something right now um I've got I I'm just g s with the fact for a second are you rebuttal from d and no there is no rebuttal from D so the I'm going to read the comments from D I'll reread the letter for from November 7th 2024 and then we will go from there um so DP comments were issued October 30th uh this is BP uh file 308-7884 um tracking number is 24-1 18757 the project has been assigned of the following number uh 308-7884 verify the expiration date in any conditions that may have been specified even if no take determination was issued any condition specified in the nhes determination should be incorporated into the O for the current project the commission should refrain from closing the hearing until revised materials are received by mass and the commission uh that was the first comment second comment is erosion controls should be extended behind the proposed addition to prevent erosion sub mation in the Ws down gradient adjacent to Wallace Hill Road that is the D comment National Heritage is U the applicant listed above has submitted a noi with site plans dated October 2024 one sheet prepaired by David E Ross Associates Incorporated to the National Heritage and Invader species program of the Massachusetts Division of Wildlife of fisheries and wildlife the division in compliance with the rare Wildlife species section of the mass WPA regulations 310 CMR 10.59 the plan shows the proposed 20x 50 foot addition in 10 x10 foot deck on the south side of the existing house within the exist within the existing fenced area uh the W WPA uh the purpose of the division's review of the proposed project under the WPA regulations for State listed rare Wetland into Wildlife is to determine whether the project will occur within actual resource area habitat and will result in short or long-term adverse effects to the uh resource area habitats based on a review of the information provided and the information that is currently contained in our database the division has determined that this project will not adversely affect the actual resource area habitat of stat listed rare Wildlife therefore this project meets the state listed rare W Wildlife performance standards for the issuance of an order of conditions this determination addresses only the matter of State listed rare Wetland wfe habitat um Massachusetts Endangered Species Act USA um based on a review of the information that was provided the division has determin that this project as currently proposed appears to be exempt from Misa review pursuant to 321 CMR 10.14 which states the following projects and activities shall be exempt from the requirements of 321 CMR 10.18 through 10.23 for the maintenance repair replacement or additions including the construction of a driveway for an existing single family or two family home within existing paave and law fully develop and maintain lawn Lawns or landscaped areas provide there's no expansion of uh such existing paved lawn or lawn and landscaped areas any changes to the proposed project or any additional work be beyond that provided May uh require a filing with the division pursuant to Misa regulations please note that the determination addresses only the matters of stat listed species and their habitats if you have any uh questions about this letter please contact Melanie Cheesman dangered species review assistant um sign Jesse litic um assistant director um was the letter of determination uh forwarded to De per their request you did fo with atitude to us where it go uh oh we don't have it but it's just yell F oh this letter yeah that was submitted file okay yeah this that I sent you last night thank you did you get the one I had sent you that's what I got no there a different one it's fine are you going to go through that one too or is that it's the same thing it's just a copy so if you want I would if there's a copy available this is previous stuff okay so so the letter of determination was not forwarded to theep um read it so I will read the letter from August 6 2021 so um before you do that yes can I say that that letter is actually remot at this point because this letter that we received for this filing suedes supersedes right that that letter was for the RDA that we filed was that with NES yes goes over the EP they a final word good paper I understand that so in the comment it asked for copy and it asked for that any conditions well D natural heritage copies the commission and D when they send these out so D has I would expect the same copy that and what you receive they receive correct they all CC back and forth with each other well it doesn't there's a cc section on the bottom and it's not filled up okay but I think the point being is that on both sides it's clean paper ready for a motion let me just read this letter to our records it um my exuberant excitement of it dear applicant the this letter is dated August 6 2021 but thank you for submitting the Visa project review checklist site plans and drawn dated 11419 and other required materials to the ntion NH um Mass division fisheries and wildlife uh for review um I'm going to summarize this so based on a review of the information that was provided and information that is currently contained in Database The Division has determined that this project from 2021 as currently proposed will not result in a prohibited take of State species thetion is a final decision of the division of fisheries and thank you um any changes to the proposed project or any additional uh work Beyond this that is shown on the S plans may require an additional filing for the division pursuant to Thea this project may be subject to for review if no physical work has commenced within 5 Years From the date of issuance of the termination and that project in 2021 was to relocate the driveway and that project is was completed so that was what 2017 you don't you went to the drive no no no I know that my question is the driveway was done in 2021 21 the state the D has had referenced yeah the letter from 2021 which I had just read so it's been read in 202 yeah is been read into our records into our records very good so you don't mind Contin thank you for being patient while I practice my reading I know why my kids are so tired at the end of the day so I know that there was a concern about whether there was a uh permanent restriction on the property based on the original order conditions 2017 we were worried about an open o through Benjamin that's closed moving on well I just want to say that there is no permanent restriction recorded in the order of conditions anything within the or what did you review the original de and I assume the property owner has it would be outlined right in the original feed that there was an o no that there is a restriction on the property Kevin's familiar with these on a separate piece of property right but the commission can put permanent conditions which they didn't do at the time of construction of this house right we was a copy of the original right of which I was the applicant now was that 2017 y yep right de one that's why I was open it that like I don't I'm not going to read more t no but but it's straight go to the next one over it reads it so that's why I was open to that reading it keep going you want me to go back to their original determination letter where I was at on that that's why I was reading it kind of mve but it what it states is to have a turtle plan um in a compliance report and your saltation barriers are in place until the work is completed and that they're taken down immediately after their so can freely move about the country right that only applied to the construction of the house because the foundation was an open pit for the in of that until completed after that it goes away right once the house is in and you have Lawn Lawn is not considered habitat it isn't it's called something get gets molded once a week right so all our work is within existing La only thing we jumped ahead of fenced in and we're still aren't we going with some s fence to the other side of the fence too for Sil Fen is on the inside of the fence so if we have any erosion it won't even reach the fence how good can that be and we're not cutting any trees or any we're not into any naturally existing wood it's a it's a beautiful thing I'm so excited to get him on his way to okay so one of the things one of the things that needs to be taken in consideration and this is something that a know National Heritage is big on um what right you're gonna have to hand to this because this is it's your property are there any other projects in the foreseeable future that you plan on doing one of the things in the original order conditions and this isn't just for you this is National it's a National Heritage thing they're actually doing it with the rail trail right now they want to know what the whole picture is 20 going down the the road so that when they do it the review it's what is the impact going to be which yours is within the landscape area again you're not taking down trees you're not filling in anything right um do you I have no intention today to but I can't tell you what comes long 10 years from now all of a sudden I hit the jackpot we're going up going big go up you know what I mean but right now I I have no intention of doing anything further again I'm just trying to make the house bigger for the and you're doing it within a I feel personally within a reasonable area that was part of the original project you're not clearing anything you're going to state within an area um the whole project is in a well controlled area you know better than that we've seen in a lot of different plans but part of it is I believe you're planning on doing it during when you know outside of their um breeding or their their a ling or whatever season so but but isn't it isn't that kind of difficult to ask a man what his what the future of it is maybe he'll have another kid and he's going to want to put on more addition it is but it's something that they this the how can you predict something you can't predict I understand that but it is something that that's why I say today I have no addition and I bet you you didn't when you bought the house that's it I didn't have plans to do that so I mean that's I think if you look at the original plans the setic tank was a four B SE I don't know any Builder that's going to go for a four bedroom sub T in just for the heck of it it was at one point in time approved for a four to go bigger yeah I think it's just going to be a beautiful accent to the neighborhood but the environmental impact I I I don't well no it's not zero don't don't see words like that what what see I don't see it being a negative impact to the habitat the endanger species habitat I know but I'm gonna word it so that it keeps us somewhat out of trouble P that's his middle name I mean a lot here right M well okay so this was U an interesting um uh event for me because you know being new on the board uh admittedly I didn't know a lot still don't know a lot a lot to learn but this was my first site visit and I was excited because oh I think I'm pretty good at seeing the big picture analyzing where trouble might be and all that and so we get there and it's part of the yard inside the fence you see you know the Wetland is way down there and I thought what am I Miss in you know I realized that sure maybe there were some things in the past that were done or weren't done correctly and that's that's different I got to learn all about that stuff but in terms of the project itself it was like I didn't see any issue myself so I'm thinking what am I missing I've got to be missing something here there got to be more to it than this and I can tell you exactly the moment when I had the Revelation and that was the last meeting when um just before I asked um Miss Mack um if her intention was to stop the project or just make sure it was done in a way that was correct and and the Revelation was that's what I was missing project itself is separate from how you do the project and so as long as I can be convinced that uh and I'm think I I'm already convinced that you're not taking the fence down talked last time about going across the front yard going inside there's going to be some uh silt fence up there's going to be some protection um I personally don't see an issue and you looked for one you struggled to find one and you couldn't outstanding I think he's going to be a great Great Commission you had you said some something very similar last time I don't know if you want to repeat I don't want to yeah I mean I I I can't see it's not you know as far as with the wildlife and all that we already got the fence up and everything um I don't see any problems with it at all going forward I mean it's all in Clos you know he's just adding on and um I I have no problems with it you put it even better last time this time we still good I think we're still good though might be on tape I don't know we could bring it back up but it was her point was well taken and I got right wish she was going Jimmy well now it's your turn you know your thoughts and then I'm going to open it up to the public because I have to I I think the man spot on I think everything that he's doing there's no taking but good with um natural heritage we're good with D I think one of the biggest problems is as the individual I'm looking at in the Stream I don't think there's any problem with that project I think it's a personal situation within the butter very disturbing very disturbing open it up to public comment so I guess that was to me Jim do you mind just introducing yourself oh sorry this is Linda Mack and Kim Lee um so you were saying that yes yes it is I found very fascinating those signs that you put up for chemical drift in your organic farming I'd like to be enlightened on that also ma' okay Jim Jim I just want to remind you the only reason you're on this commission is to to um abolutely you know enforce protection act in the bylaw you don't need to get into anything personal it's not personal it's professional you're being very personal so what the only thing I want to say is that um in the original orders in 2006 I gave them to James they are on the deed and they say I want to get back a little further to see this so the one condition that I you know I want to um make sure is on this condition and underscored is the condition about no herbicides pesticides insecticides are allowed within 100 ft and Jim if you want to know why those signs are up um I gave all the inform to um to uh Mr no to James he has all the documentation of that um I don't think it's appropriate to bring it up here but it's the background information to make sure that um no um no more chemicals P pesticides and herbicides go on my property so that is so you don't have conflict with your your Organic certification so I'm not I'm not here to be questioned by you Jim it was a question I just asked is that are your concerns for the overspray for your Organic certification it's for my organic practicing that I do on my farm I'm here to discuss this hearing please and [Music] here okay so I asked my my question I could go further so you are hold on a reg reg you're a farm in in register yes why what do you what do you care you're a commissioner and you should be putting on orders of condition and you should be making sure that the protections of wetlands are happening you don't need to get into the you know gossip or whatever you've heard in town you know stop acting like a little philosopher Jim just do the job you're supposed to do and all I'm asking is that that be underscored I sent it to James yeah and it's that be an order of condition because it has been a problem in the past that's all yeah Kim would you like to say anything and if you do please just introduce yourself please I will introduce myself my name is Kimo Wallis Road um and I had some email comments and I I appreciate they were taken and I was able to actually attend this meeting and they were read record oh thank you um based on my recollection about when these hearings first came through that Conservation Commission spent a lot of time refecting Mr crossman's tendency to minimize everything to try to protect this section of town this section of town is surrounded by fish and wildlife properties because they recognize that it's an important Wildlife order and wildlife habitat and I think that that board deserves some recognition for the amount of effort they put into trying to permit this lot in a way that allowed the house be built and still protected what is very special about what we have up there and when I hear comments that minimized dismiss it's very dismaying to me it's a really great spot up there and I would ask this board to please do your job as a Conservation Commission orders conditions I you can boilerplate what they wrote they already did the work for you right you need to recognize that work they already did they did the conditions are perfect and and please don't dismiss it and Mr Crossman knows that every lot like this which was difficult to permit and and I recognize with the board he knows that there's and he's work this one in I am not minimizing anything I have natural heritage saying that we're not minimizing anything they are the experts far more expert than I am in saying this has no impact to the wildlife in this area this addition that's what the regulations State we have to get their say so from the experts I did that I sent it to them for review if they said we couldn't do it we wouldn't do it under the regulations all we're doing is foll the reg can't do it I think it's about doing it that's and we are doing we are doing it the way that the regulations say we have to do it can I express a little ignorance but so I'm wondering how does pesticides tie into this house I'm getting there and I'll I'll read it and it's something that is typically forgotten well the thing is is it's in our our St we have a standard order of conditions it is not something that has changed from that time um but it is something that is um it's very loose um it's yep it's always been part of the I'm just looking for so attachment a is something we always vote on correct yeah issue an order of conditions with attachment a with these with the following special conditions which as an example as an example like Mike's that we were just talking about the double so don't fall no so in our standard order of conditions which was developed way before my time um one of the conditions is um it's number 16 no picle pesticides herbicides or insecticides should be used within 100 ft of the Wetland no picle de should shall be used uh on a driveway within 100 ft of the Wetland pursuant to the ma WPA Master chapter 131 section 40 in the wetlands bylaw town of towns and um and the rules and regulation what are the chemicals and what are the spraying that's going on well let's but that that's hold on that that's that's not what we're talking about right now we're talking about an addition all I'm all I'm saying is could you just make sure it's a condition and that you um clarify that to Mr Hans so he knows that I think everything is fine but I I don't you know as as as an a butter I get to to have my opinion about things but as a conservation commissioner I can put on my hat when I used to be a commissioner there's nothing here that says you can't have an addition so I don't even know why you guys are even thinking that he couldn't have his addition so I'm just saying that as a former conservation commissioner but as an a butter I can voice my concerns and it's not personal it's just I'm in a butter and I have seen things and I'm asking you guys as conservation commissioners to make sure that that is put on the conditions if it's a standard condition still that's great well Linda you probably were off you might have been on when they developed the standard order of conditions so you're you're I know you're well aware of it so if it's a matter of following the stand standard order conditions it's everyone gets it with a order condition right and for the record we're not opposed we have never been opposed to that condition we have no objections to that being exactly in terms of the the actual project itself of building the addition in within a previously landscaped area you know I I make a motion that we issue an order standard order conditions with attachment a as we always do with the you know request that number 16 is um followed um just because it's the right thing to do could you read out I did but I will read it again to appease you um no chemical pesticides herbicides or insecticides shall be used with within 100 ft of Wetland no chemical deers should be used on the driveway within 100 ft of the Wetland pursuant to the Massachusetts WPA um masteral Law chapter 131 section 40 and the wetlands bylaw town of towns and the rules and regulation PR uh prated there under um again that is nothing new but does the order of conditions warrant hold on I made a motion we can second it and then we can discuss it and then go back and forth a little more the question I think I yeah you want to ask a question or you want to Second it that's the question no no someone second it if they feel that we can vote on this and then we can discuss if we need to and revise the vote you me no that's up to the commission not up to me can I second it just to move this on I can so we second it no and that leads to a discussion not the V it's okay right second second now discussion Pat I just have a question so you know they have Mosquito Squad out here my question is if he decided that he wanted to do over towards his lawn and stuff like that is there a problem with him it depends on the insecticide use a lot of those companies do use I think a lemon Glass Center they all have the MS you can get I don't know because when they came to my house when I told them I had rabbits that would come certain area they avoided that area and they went on to other parts of my yard so but knowing if a truck goes there you know I just don't want him to let's look the plan let's have a problem with everybody because oh there's a chemical truck here well it's within 100 anything within 100 feet now chemical drift that is guys just so you're aware me add a com yes the reason why the driveway changed was to add more privacy to those neighbors it's really done effort to get more privacy back the neighbors or for you you to be able to keep from any sort of spray drip taking place so I put in quite a bit of money to try and appease people well so without pulling yeah I can't p no no Jimmy come here I'll show you because there's a wetland 100 I guess I have to look at what I look at the spray drift agriculture I have 12 hives on the top of my hill and I have somebody in the field directly across from my house with a jackco with a six NS of atomizing spray to kill whatever is in the field area with bees out there so what's chem I understand chemical drift in a big manner but not with two neighbors across the street from one another spraying controlled substance Jim Jim it isn't Jim it wasn't up to the neighbors and it's not up to you it was up to the Mass Department of egg and they came and tested you know it's all been done and it's all been resolved so I don't even know why you're getting involved I'm not minimizing what you're saying when I'm trying to stick to the conservation side and looking at the the proposed plan and the the 100 foot weapon buffer you know he's got a a rectangle that gets small and gets bigger as you get to Brown Road of area that he's allowed to yes but is the the original one or it was red delineated in 2022 for the RDA oh so it's the 2022 does does the town ever dice or put salt on Brown Lo every time it smells yeah well aren't they breaking the rules then DPW generally always one well I know well I know but okay but there they seem to be that's breaking the rules but what rules well no no salt within the 100 foot buffer they'll BR road is within 100 buffer Road doesn't have an order of conditions that say that well I know that okay so technically technically they're off the hook but they're still putting salt on the road within 100 foot bucker hold on okay we got five different conversations now I'm just getting annoyed so we can't do anything about it because they dragged their feet getting us an agent now we're finally trying to get us an agent we got to go through 10 Rounds or interview so if anyone wants to join like join us and help us fine you work full time I work full time you kind of do something that's thankfully Fe helping us and Mike just joined us for the ride so we can only do so much and I am so burnt out that I'm one meeting away from just calling it quits and that I know what's going to happen and it's everything that you st import Jimmy all of us have in this room stand for we all care so I understand where Linda's coming from with the spray drift at this you know at no point is are we here bickering about why he shouldn't put an addition within offense theara we're talking about spray drift we're outside of where we should be yes I agree and honestly you guys you guys I just wanted to make sure it was an order of conditions that's all and all of this drama from Jim and other people doesn't need to happen you should just issue the orders of condition and you should move on it's not worth all of this you know you should just do it like James was also we are not objecting to this condition we have never Obed to this condition no Mr I would like to read an email with the that's taken place in the past I think it's important good good afternoon I have a question about mosquito control and the WPA sprs second do you mind just telling us the date that you received or you centered [Music] this July 22nd 2021 I have a question about mosquito control under the WPA spraying is exempt activity is this only for government municipalities or does this cover companies that are fully licensed to spray yards what are your thoughts on this I actually do not see where this is specifically addressed in the regs or called is an exempt activity 10.36 has regs for herbicides use supporting Public Utilities but does not deal with mosquito spraying free category 4G applies to non-exempt Mosquito Control projects but again I do not find a definition of what would be considered an exemp mosquito control project the agricultural sections do contain language for pesticide use but would not apply to sfrs my thoughts are that in theory the activity should not result in loss of vegetation or any other measurable alteration of resource area or buffer zone assuming the company applying the pesticides is licensed to do so the work can occur without a permit so would You' like to know why that's the case because mosquitoes are a um public health hazard right that is the way the state views it now is that right or wrong I'm not here to discuss it tonight I'm just not um but that is the because it's you know Triple E um um that's how the state views it and again does it make it right doesn't make it wrong it's one of those things but our standard order of conditions includes that line obviously the applicant is willing to buy byy it you know so that it follows the order of conditions that's how I'm going to word so it will follow the order of conditions obligated to do that one yes but it's it's it's a standard order of conditions I don't don't everyone yeah everyone everyone has automatically attached every time you make a decision then there's nothing to talk about let's vote on this but it's it's a point that and I I agree with Linda it's a point that is often forgotten about it all all these are we should have a story time and go through every single one of these at some point because people forget about the little things so no we [Music] don't I've made a motion Mike seconded we can have a vote or we can just keep going in circles it's everyone's Choice almost we need V we'll start with my per vote uh Mike said yes James dur yes James Gates yes yes Kevin has to stain um I appreciate him you're joining us I know it's tough to get away sind Linda and I thank you for joining us I know it's tough to do it and I know it's frustrating and again this it is frustrating but at no point and Linda did say no one was against the addition but there's times that we have to talk about individual standard orders and that is one of them so make a motion to close I make a motion to close the hearing um One Brown Road twb 20241 196 D number 38- 0718 so that was yes all the way around four okay now second that second M said yes James James Gates yes a week or so to do the paperwork thank you I appreciate your due diligence thank you I have organize hope that wasn't too much for you too much meeting let's just finish this off it's almost 9:00 um did everyone have a chance s you're joining us again I am uh review and approve meeting minutes from 11:13 have a happy holiday God bless see you later good luck with the addition in the neighborhood you get a chance to read the well actually I couldn't go online so uh Sabrina just gave copy a little while I haven't read it word by word but I scanned it see anything the Amendments we don't we don't want we double check every once in a while I'll see something that I don't recall though how do you jump up and say you don't want you know did you get a chance to yes I did I didn't really notice anything so someone make a motion and someone second it please motion to approve the minutes from what was it again 11 yeah yes M said yes James Gates yes items for next meeting 22 SAA Road CH should down I'm gonna see the company um she still maybe we'll have an agent maybe not um so I make our next meeting is Wednesday January 8th and then January 22nd 2025 700 p.m. for select Chambers also on Zoom it is 8:45 p.m. a motion to adjourn motion um go ahead Pat I a motion the meeting at 845 845 second a second please yes James James Gates yes