calls for Wednesday, November 12th at 7:05 p.m. [Music] What you want? [Music] This meeting is being recorded.
[Music] report anything. I have report Our original talk Yeah. agenda [Music] 19
but there were other items >> that didn't get to this print Right. [Laughter] >> Caught you off guard there. >> I know you did. I'm not. Oh, so it
worked very well. >> So, >> what did what did we end up because of the day? >> Yeah, >> that's all right. [Music]
You're fine. >> All right. So, we're still going to go 35 [Music] >> There's a wedding for I think we're gonna [Music]
want to go. All right. No problem. 1.7. [Music] First one is Parker Hill [Music]
Adam [Music] Okay. Well, it's already been [Music] collapse. [Music] [Music]
Conservation Commission. Yeah. Okay. started. And since it's not supposed to be what snacks, [Music] >> By the way, I I did autographs. put your
your name on your agenda and stuff and smile. [Music] You mind just announcing that you've arrived and what time? [Music] [Music]
Did provide? Guess we should wait. Yeah. [Music] kind of that was >> right. So what doesn't go into the
general account instead of meeting property [Music] here? [Music] I thought we had a Can you read it off?
[Music] Oh, you You just repeat the number. Make a motion to open the hearing number 2080725WB 2025-008 [Music] Wagner
[Music] project The construction of building addition and drive location. Pursuant to the mass and dialogue, the town of Concom will hold a public hearing on Wednesday,
November 12th, 2025 at approximately 7:15 p.m. via Zoom or incom [Music] Wagner. The property is located at four pastorn lane map 53E parcel 503 lot
zero. Posed uh project is for addition driveway location to this application. So we need right prior to available for review.
[Music] I have Harley, >> can you give Bobby screen sharing please? >> Excuse me. Uh, who would like to screen share? >> Okay, one moment. Why do you think
we had a site review today and we made some adjustments? >> No, no, trust me. That's so good. >> We emailed him. I can go hand with engineering representing Robert. Um we had a site review today with um
with Kobe and Mike uh to review some of the features of the of the plan here in the site. Um that's clear. >> Yeah, I can zoom in. >> You want me to leave my text? up to you
um >> on my phone, but I have a computer. >> I sent you a text a few days ago. >> It didn't come on my phone. [Music] >> Figure it out. >> Do you have his number saved at >> Do you have Mike's number saved?
>> Do you have an iPhone? It might have gone to spam. >> Looks all through it. I didn't see it. >> Okay. Sorry, Bill. That's okay. So um essentially this project was submitted to the commission and approved back in uh 2015
for essentially the same project which would be a building addition. So the existing building is put in here. The addition starts here and has a garage with a room above it proposed. >> You came in front of the board in 2015 with this. >> Not me.
>> Wagner you came in front of >> No, they're not. Yeah. Yeah. Wagers did. Yeah. So they they were approved and the uh order conditions expired. >> Okay. So this is what we're doing is we're basically doing the same general thing.
>> So we're upgrading the OC on this. >> No, no, no. They're reapply to for >> completely right new. >> Nothing pertains to 2015. This is completely new. It's just informationational just to let been here before
>> because we can't rely on anything from >> Absolutely. >> So we went out and we got the wetlands ref wetlands that >> we went out and retoled the site located everything. >> Um tree line is existing and not
proposed to be adjusted. Um and all the buckers are are shown on the plan relative to the border wetlands as well as to the the riverfront areas on the property. for the riverfront area extend the 200 foot river front end is up in this area here. So potentially the
entire property within the riverfront the 100 foot buffer zone is the line a little bit above >> catches the corn res >> and the 100 foot um riverfront is in this area right here. So then we have the 35 and the 50. So the work is being
done essentially within the 100 foot bucker zone and portions of it are within the 100 foot river furn. This is a lot that was prior to the riverfront existed. So it's it has certain exemptions which you're familiar with. Um so what we're proposing to do with put in the building addition. Um we're
expanding and repaving um the existing driveway because it's in just it's all need to be updated. Um and then the uh the building itself is proposed as a garage with a room above it. um during
the sidewalk today. We looked along um the perimeter of the lawn area going down on the plan that we submitted. We had picked up on the original approval that there was a row of shrubs that were being proposed in
this area. Um, when we were on the site looking at it, I I felt that it would probably actually do more harm than good because of the fact that you'd actually have to dig next to the next to the edge of the woods and from the edge of the woods, it drops right off. So, there's really no value in in adding that.
There's no I think the intention was that they wouldn't approach any further and I'll let Mike speak to what we saw on the site today, but there really is no reason to go any further because it drops off very very quickly to to the weather down below. So it's a real strong downward radian from that edge.
>> Jimmy, if you remember right next door, >> I may remember this in 215 to be honest. >> No, no, right next door. We had last year the maybe the end of the year before uh uh Kevin Ory um >> an addition.
It's actually the same building contractor that's doing the work on this project as well. Okay. Um the other ones that we did this or they had a double silk fence. >> Okay. Okay. >> Cuz it was so steep and so close. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So this is not the work the slope is
down in this area here. And the work we're proposing to put um siltation fence with h with um straw bottles >> straw >> around around this whole area here. We added this area today. Um and we also added a silk fence going in this direction here. So the initial
construction is for the excavation and and installation of the foundation regrading around the back side of the house which can be very quick and then from there it's really just construction vertical um for the building itself. Um, at the end of it, we are going to put a drip strip along the back, five foot
wide drip strip, so that the the runoff from the roof can get to the back of that um area there and and make its way into the ground um for some some sort of recharge, some sort of benefit that is is provided within the room area and buffer zone. We found out today that
they're also considering um stripping the uh siding off the building and putting brand new siding on the whole area. So that's what we did. What we did was we added a row of tiltation fence around this area here just to make sure the contractor doesn't go too far beyond the uh you know and get get himself into
trouble by doing other work on this side. So there's no excavation or grant or ground movement over here just the building itself. But they're going to be taking the wood down. It's uh barn board >> basically. Yeah. >> Yeah. And um so they're going to be
taking it down and and and stacking it and then moving it and getting out of the way. We figured we would add a siltation fence around this side of the of the of the project to make sure that they didn't go any further than 10 15 ft away from that. That's now shown in the revised plan which we've submitted for
tonight. Um along with Mike requested we add a legend to the plan so we would know what each of the lines mean. That's been added to the plan as well. We've also added an area uh adjacent to the driveway for basically a staging area for the the equipment in and um
>> Okay. Because I was going to be look I wasn't sure if that was your staging area. It didn't >> staging or >> staging stockpile. Okay. Very >> good. So we added that whatever. Um based upon site review it the contractor was there. It made sense. He said I'm
going to be putting my stuff over here. Yeah. >> So now we now we know where everything is on the property. Um so everything should be um squared away when it's done. Lo and seed it's all lawn now. >> Stabilize it. >> Stabilize L and seed. And then at that point we come in for bring up there for
a COC and make sure everything's all set. Then we take out the habil. >> Could we circle around again to the drive where you said they're going to possibly or are taking the driveway asphalt existing out? >> No, they're existing. They're going to
remove it and replace it because it's all it's all undulated. >> Did you put any waddles or anything in >> that's all encased within the waddles of the site? So everything drains from here back part of it drains. >> Yeah. So you get up to here, you know, you're outside the buffer,
>> right? >> So >> all right. So we're still in the river front. >> Correct. So that's why I'm looking for some models in that driveway area if it's going to be stripped down. But the way it is going, >> it all comes this way. It goes down from the road. Yeah. So you got 330 and 332
there. So it's good for Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But you got the staging area. They made ample, >> right? They'll they'll be using the driveway during the whole construction. The last thing they'll be doing is ripping it out and that one time. >> All right.
>> Mike, are you happy with all? I think my question primarily was uh what kind of foundation was it going to be and how much excavation there was going to be and where they were going to >> assume you're going to do >> footings. Walls. No, it's a frost wall.
So, it's just it's just a garage. So, the garage Yeah. Yeah. The garage is on the ground floor. >> Wall slab >> and then So, it would be a slab with a a frost wall foundation. Then, timber framing. >> Colby, did you take any pictures today? >> You did? Yeah, I have
>> just so that Sandy and Pat can see [Music] >> towards the backyard and towards the uh drop off to the stream. That's the drop off. >> Was that the drop off?
>> Oh yeah. This is get an idea of the slope and what's the kind of vegetation that's actually there on the slope >> present. >> So it is a it's showing facult. >> I mean that's obvious
>> from a backyard shot. So this this bushing area here right now we have the hay bales come the straw walls coming up in this area and then up to the deck and then going around the back of the house and around the side on that side. So that that bush you're seeing on the plan is
is right there. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> That's a good one to show. >> Yeah. >> On the original plans from years ago. Whoops. This is the location of the proposed plants.
Woody plants I guess. And even before we had the discussion and I saw them on the plane, I wondered why. I wish I had been here to hear the discussion why they thought those were necessary and I came to the conclusion like you that it might
be more disruptive to actually dig and put them in than any benefits that you'll get from them. So >> that was that was on the original. >> It was a different group, different commissioners, different commissioners take different approaches. >> Yeah. to replanting etc etc. So,
>> and the meditation that that there are today may not have been as as >> larger. It's more stabilized. I mean, it could have been more exposed. There's a multitude of different reasons for that too, Mike. >> Yeah, makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Did you get any pictures of the driveway
here? >> I believe so. Here's the another backyard chair with the walkway. >> So, this is the side of the house. >> So, that's where the back side really dives off. Okay. So, this is the end of the existing driveway and there's like a walkway >> that goes around the back.
>> Um the existing driveway is right here. This is the walkway that comes along the back. >> That's what >> that's right. >> So, this is the existing driveway comes in and then this walkway here is what you're seeing on the left here.
Thank you. get a lot of pictures of that bush. >> Yeah. >> Caught my eye for some reason. >> Well, no, you a good representation of what that slope, the existing slope is deep back, but
it's outside of the uh Thank you. Um, so Pat, and then I'll go to Sandy if you have questions. I, um, I don't know if you remember, Pat, we went to the neighbor's house, like I
said, a year and a half ago for their project. You can see the addition they put on, >> right? >> Um, >> yeah. >> Was that two? >> Like a year and a half, maybe two. >> Two years. >> It's all blur. >> Mhm. Um, I don't know if you have
questions, Pat, or concerns or >> No, it's good pictures of how it slopes so and everything. This is a better idea. >> It's pretty steep, but it's a very wellestablished lawn. >> So, >> I don't want to know it, though.
>> We've seen steeper. >> Well, yeah. And the neighbors were the one of the special conditions was or they actually proposed it was the double salt fence. Um you know they were disturbing a lot closer to that slope. This isn't as close.
>> No. No. I mean, it's a good strong drop off, but Sandy, do you have I because this is your first hearing and um you're new to
it. Um questions. Uh >> this is the first time I've ever seen a representation with all the buffer zones and everything. So, yeah, it's kind of cool. It's different. Um, I don't know if this will sound silly or not, but I noticed like the buffer zones
and everything says NHSP priority habitats of rare species. And so I'm like looking at the buffer zone, 100 foot buffer zone. I'm I'm I'm gathering there's enough buffer zones if there's a rare species to >> So there's two there's two designations
on there. There's three actually. Okay. >> Okay. >> So there's the annual high water mark which is where the riverfront areas are established. Then there's the boring vegetated wetlands which is where the buffer zones for the 35 50 and 100 are established. The rare species line is a
designation that is on essentially mass GIS which says this zone which is actually off of our property has has areas that are subject to review and protection under under the um national herit heritage and dangerous species program. Okay. So we don't have any of
that on our property but that's what that representation is. >> Oh okay. Well, thank you very much for >> see not this is Sy's first meeting. Yes. >> Yes. >> I love teaching. So >> appreciate it. >> Yeah. No, it's it's you know >> and usually if it's going to have
natural heritage involved and there's going to be any type with him as well. >> It it it's a process. It's >> it's a process. >> Yeah. >> But no, you have other questions. >> He's that's what he's here for. So,
don't we've all gone through them. >> Okay. >> We don't know what the color of the house. >> Sorry. >> There was there was debate about that. Okay. Today, >> I thought it was a great >> the builder and the and the owner. We going back and forth and I said I said
there's there's a time when you know you're not supposed to get yourself involved in a conversation. That was one of them. >> Colby, do you have thoughts or concerns or input? Uh I guess a little in um
yeah, as far as alternatives go, uh the septic systems in the front yard. Um and the the only possible thing you could do differently maybe is to pull it forward 10, 10 or 15 feet, but I don't
know what that gains yet. It doesn't really gain much. Um, >> it actually would it would be it would eliminate to the gas line right here. It would have Yeah, we'd have to move the we'd have to move the gas lines. >> Yeah. Once again,
>> not worthy of the disruption for the like move just like putting some of those trees in. Not worth the disruption to what you're going to gain. >> Yeah, that's the only other thing I was going to comment on. You talked about the possibility of putting plantings
along the back edge of the lawn there >> to the top of the rad. >> I'm sorry. >> To the top of where the radiant drops down. >> Yeah, it's it's a slope, but then it gets steeper. You can see it in the contours there. The ra >> was this was a plan we submitted and we
did this based upon the 2015 plan. We think there must have been a reason we got the 2015. Don't bring this. So, I I emailed the um the rendering that you saw earlier in >> to basically show that we're removing those. We're not we're not proposing
those anymore. >> Correct. >> And that's on that plan where we've added the additional silt fence and and the stock is staging area on under on the new plan which you now have in front of them. So, this is the plan that we're >> So, there will not be no planting. >> Well, so correct. Um and D didn't have
any comments to the originally submitted plan with the planting. So, which is always good. Um, yeah. Does anyone else have anything they want to go over or concerns or It's pretty
straightforward in my opinion. >> Yes, it is. Especially because at 215 they had already made the approach dock and like I said, they have a staging area for the material. So, it's silk fences all around it. they've made adequate for the driveway and that's dug
up. It's all moving down this way. >> Like everything on the plan is what needs to be. >> Well, I was focused on the legend. Of course, >> that's fine. >> Uh, and I didn't bring a ruler to check
this, but let's see. >> I looked at legendary was >> most well written in on the whole plan. Yeah, I think so. >> It looks straightforward to me. >> Yeah. So um did you know what he meant
with as far as the legend demonstrates all your sil your five your all your different zone areas your 35 your 100 your 200 every I mean >> it's my sense that go ahead
>> it might even be hoover you to keep that plan take them home it's something to look at just read all of this go back and look at that >> it's pretty straightforward. It'll it'll be helpful to absorb it.
>> Pretty straightforward once you've seen it 20 or 30 or 50. >> Okay. >> Good idea to take that. >> Just look at it, right? >> You know, >> some light green. >> Well, yeah. >> And Mike >> Mike is, you know, become our plan guy
where he points out >> colors for you, too. Green. He likes the color in Dexton, too. >> I did. I did bring markers. If >> I get him in time, I'll tell her code. But >> but >> it's helpful, too, especially when she's
newer. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Um >> I'm ready. >> I don't want to Yeah. rush it, but I I don't >> We could keep talking about this all we want. I don't think there's really much else to add or >> I mean a little extra conversation due
to when you get out here. It helps. >> Oh, it big cookies. I don't know. What do you want us to say? It's all going in real good direction tonight. >> You want to add? >> It is. >> No, I understand. >> I'm going to I'm going to still ask. >> I know. I know.
>> I understand. >> Are you good? >> Yeah, I'm good. >> So, even though it feels like it's been a year since we've done one of these. Um, [Applause] so I make a motion to issue a OOC um
with a standard order of conditions for um for Peppercorn Lane uh notice of intent 308-0725 TWWB 2025-00008 um for Barbara Wagner. Um is there a
second? >> A second. Oh, that got >> I was trying to shoot for that. >> Roll call. >> No. Take my thunder tonight if you >> say yes. >> You brought the cookies in. >> James doyan. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes.
>> Yes. Sort. Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> That's beautiful right there. >> So, I make a motion to close the hearing Capricorn Lane. Uh, notice of intent 308-0725 TWWB 2025-
008. Is there a second? >> I say yes. >> James Dorian, yes. >> James, yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Time 7:42.
[Laughter] Sandy, both of those the same ones. >> No, the bottom one is different. >> Okay, >> take the one that we just went over. >> The legend. I think the other one.
>> Thank you, Bill. Thank you very much. [Music] All right. You ready to keep going? Cuz it's late. >> Yeah. This is going >> either one. >> You can still get
>> it now. My wife responsibilities with it. >> Um 2.235 uh Pitchburg Road. We don't have a D number for this one. We do know >> um they didn't issue a D. >> Not yet. Uh notice of intent. Uh we do
not have a D number. So ultimately this will be continued but uh TWWB 20225-00009. Applicant is Lawrence Kirville. The proposed project includes the repair of retaining wall uh between the house and Swanoke River which will be within 200
foot riverfront area and 100 foot wetland buffer. Um, try my legal notes. Um, so I make a motion to open the hearing. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Roll call vote starting with Mike.
>> Mike Pson, yes. >> James Doroan, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> Matt, yes. Sandra Lord, yes. Pursuant to uh mass WPA and towns and veterans bylaw, uh the towns in Concom
will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, November 12th, 2025 at approximately 7:30 p.m. The hearing hearing will be held uh virtually via Zoom uh and in person at town hall on a NOI filed with
Concom by Lawrence Churchville as TWWB 2025-00009. The property is located at 35 Pitchburg Road, map 17, parcel 68, lot zero. The proposed project is for the repair and replacement of a retaining wall between
a single family house and Swanakook River. Proposed work to take place within 200 foot uh riverfront area and 100 foot wetland buffer. Parties wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or
in writing prior to the meeting. Copies of this application are available for review at town hall during business hours. Uh Frank from Dul and Roy is here to >> Is that the only set of plans you have? >> So was that >> is that the only set
>> this other set that that I brought? Yeah. >> Okay. So um and he said my name is Frankartland from Dillis and Roy here on behalf of the applicants going to church at 35sburg road. Uh the applicant seeks
to replace an existing stone wall stone retaining wall at the top of the slope. Uh it's located here behind the house with the river and the existing uh
the existing dwelling and barn and associated out buildings. Um that there's been a house on this property since the early 1900s. Uh the retaining wall itself was on site when the applicant bought the property
in 1999. Um looking at those photos. It's obviously older than that. So um all the the disturbance on on the property predates the 1996 Rivers Protection Act. >> Do you have pictures you could Yeah. put those up?
>> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Then you can go back to the plan. >> Yep. Um and as uh as was said in the legal notice, this is a repair of an existing disturbance, not any kind of new disturbance of the jurisdictional
areas on site. Um the jurisdictional areas were based on an April 2025 wetland delineation consisting of soil observations and vegetation evaluation. Wetland flags A1 through A6 delineate a bordering vegetative wetland and that is
in you can kind of pick. So there there's a wall that is this growth in here like standing at the river. >> And then um on on the plans uh flags RA1 through RA12 delineate the mean annual
high water top of bank. >> Perfect. >> There we go. >> That's your flood plane. >> So this is uh though those flags would be the high water top of bank for the Squan River. The 100red-year flood plane
itself is at approximate elevation um 3 let's see 384 2 no 284.9 per the latest firm map and that is that's about at the base
of the of the slope and impacts the and it's at at the base of the retaining wall Uh the jurisdictional areas on site include the 35- ft buffer which I've added to my exhibit plan and we'll add to a revised plan before the next
meeting. Uh the 50oot buffer, 100 foot wetland buffer and the 100 foot and 200 foot riverfront buffer. So given the proximity to Swan Cookook, the entire property is riverfront or jurisdictional in some manner.
It is 100% >> riverfront >> pretty much. >> And I can interrupt. Had you brought this in front of for work to be done years back? >> Is this the first time you've made an approach for
>> Okay. >> Why do you remember it? >> I just something in that area that over retain Kevin and I had spoken and I think this is it pertains to this
Go ahead. Um, so, uh, the proposed work consists of a, uh, a replacement retaining wall. Uh, the the the rear of the new new retaining wall will follow the top back line of the the existing
stone retaining wall. >> Back to the plan now. Not the >> the top of the wall would be at approximate elevation 290 and the bottom elevation of the wall varies between 2889
and 285. So we're just outside of the 100 foot the 100year flood plan at the base of the wall. >> So this is the existing conditions plan. You can see I'll um this is the 100year
flood plane line >> going right through the middle >> right through >> the middle. Yeah. >> 50 foot buffers 100 foot buffer and riverfront zone. They're kind of coincident in some spots. Um >> interseeding.
>> Yeah. And then the bordering vegetated wetland. That's this uh hexagonal shape. That's the only BVW you have on it. >> That's the BVW and then the rest of the site is um the
mean annual high high water line. >> Yeah, >> we do have and this wasn't identified in our report. There is a wetland flag B1 that's here. So there there's a tiny bit of BBW coming off of um between flags RA11 and
RA10 which I I will also clear. You don't have it marked on the plane? >> No, it wasn't. I I didn't catch that because they didn't label it for me. >> Okay. >> When I when I was >> That's easy. >> But it's But it's it's again it it doesn't really change the the lines and
why why we're here. >> No. No. >> Um so yeah, the uh switch to the uh the next page that shows the retaining wall. You need a half. You don't need glasses.
>> Yeah. >> So, >> um, as I was saying, the, uh, proposed retaining wall, uh, the back of the wall location is going to match the back of the wall of of of
the existing uh, retaining wall. So, we're not we're not going any further down the slope. We just want to repair and replace what's there. um a a modern manufactured block wall
would likely not travel as far down the slope to provide the same same rise and and and height. So we'll actually end up with slightly less wall closer for itself.
So, we're going to be going in with modern materials. Yes. Concrete >> likely um concrete block giant concrete Lego blocks >> and they're going to be pinned glued in construction. >> Well, I I detail
>> the details for like Allen block or a diamond block >> that that is yet um the final construction of the wall is yet to be established. what what all all the materials and and the the anchoring will be. Um we were looking to get this first
step done prior to them the my clients in engaging a contractor. We we wanted to make sure that we knew approval was closer >> that approval was closer. Exactly. >> Okay. Um, so moving to this one because
it'll be a little easier to see. Unless you want to put that up on on screen, Kobe. That's the aerial. >> Yep. That that one maybe >> aerial photos will do that. I apologize.
So, um, we'll move to this one. Um, uh, I originally had erosion control barriers, uh, tighter to the project site, kind of wrapping from an existing deck in front of this one, in front of
the BBW, and then coming back up. And during our sitewalk, while we were talking things through with Mike and Colby, um we thought it would be better to uh adjust the the uh the erosion control bear barrier slightly. So it
right now it's been moved further out on this side and then follows the the riverfront line and then back up. And then we'll have a second line in front of this BBW to protect that. What
that's going going to allow us to do is is provide sight access from the existing drive driveway over between the house and the existing barn down the slope to the bottom
of uh the bottom of of the wall. So a contractor can work. >> Kathy, you mind signing in, please? Thank you. >> What's your total >> um footage of wall? >> Total footage of wall. Good question.
>> Um I know the the disturbance we're looking at is uh about 315 square ft. >> The wall length. >> What is your grand total of length? >> Yeah. >> Of wall. >> I called out square footage and I do not
have a scale in front of me. Uh maybe rough estimate estimates. >> So we're looking at that's 20 20 40 maybe 60 feet 60 >> approximately 60 ft of wall. Yes.
>> Yeah. And it'll vary from the highest point at >> the top of the wall is going to be a flat grade of about 290. And then the base >> block will be step >> the the toe of the wall the the finish grade at the toe of the wall would be
between 289 and 285. >> Okay. >> 285. >> What is the plan to finish the the toe of the slope? Um, >> yeah, because you you're gonna want to get that stabilized.
>> Yeah. So, I guess what's the proposed And if you have more to your presentation, I'm sorry. >> No, no, that that's that that that's fine. Um, but I was just getting into um that the work zone would be accessed. We would access the bottom of the wall through this route and then the top of
the wall around the house this way. Um uh and then uh construction and staging stockpile would be located outside of the 100 foot buffer and NHSB habitat. So there is a small portion of the property
way up here. It's natural heritage. So I'm I'm betting that's why we don't have a file number yet. >> Unfortunately, it's well out of anything to do with the work. So that's in their view probably now and they're they're
going to review that after. Okay. >> Yeah. >> See, I didn't know we had an an H in that. So that >> it was filed concurrently. However, >> you agree with that? >> They like to look at stuff. >> Yeah, they do. They just take forever. They said Yeah, they're
>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. And I'm that that that was the difference between this and the one of the big differences between this and the and the one and the project before us tonight that did get a that did get a a number.
>> Oh, correct. But no, you can ask your um coworker Ryan. National Heritage has been slow. >> Yes. Very slow lately. >> Staffing cutbacks. I understand. >> I don't really care. I don't
>> whatever it is. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, um yeah, construction staging stockpile. Um I did because we are in RI riverfront, I did delineate all alternatives in the report. Essentially,
they were a no build all alternative, which is essentially eventually letting the wall fail and then and then you have you have to you have to clean up the mess and and it's it's a bigger problem. I looked at the possibility of removing
the retaining wall and just creating a slope down, >> right? Yeah. Just >> um and to stay out out of the wetland um that would have to be like a one and a half to one or a one slope. So you're going to bring in that would a lot of material bring in. How many yards did you figure there?
>> I I I estimated about 3400 cubic feet. I didn't do I didn't do yards, but you know, you divide that by 30. You know, it's it's a lot of material in the flood plane. That's a that's that's a that's a a no-go.
>> No. >> Correct. um maintaining the retaining wall, building it out of modern materials will will keep any will keep anything from from happening there for a for a long more time. >> Right. Right. Did you I'm sorry, Mr. M
for church, but did you visit and think about using a natural field stone having somebody actually build the stone instead of using the concrete wall? >> We haven't talked to anybody. >> Okay. So I'm just >> so I I think they're going about it the
right way though to get the permitting done >> and see if we are able to get you through the process and you know get to doing it. So all right I was just wondering if you had gotten that far. >> Yeah. Um and as far as Jim's qu question
that I uh I ignored to finish what I was doing. Um, I was anticipating um at at at the base of the slope restoration with native materials. Um, I'm I'm thinking that they'll be able to
uh any anything that they excavate out they will be able to use to back fill at the base of the slope. Any any materials and then >> so they have native material plant with native plants. Correct. >> What what gets disturbed?
>> Yeah. If it's wetland soil, it'll just >> it'll mother nature will take over and >> Yep. And unfortunately, as we saw on site, it does have um Japanese notweed on site >> in that. >> Is it in the the air the work area?
>> It's it's in there there was a there was a little stand of it in the BBW. >> We've seen >> but we're not we're not working in that. >> Right. Right. But we've seen a lot of notweed and milloro and such. It's hard not to. >> It's and we're plagued with a lot of
common read right now up in the high head water. So it's inevitable. >> Yes, >> inevitable questions. What do you mean? She's I mean you're looking at a lot of new stuff and this is a good chance to
>> try >> get all the questions out of them. >> Okay. >> Don't want to scare them yet. >> Not yet. But you know if there is any this is the time to ask them. >> Um >> well can I point a couple things out? >> Yes please.
>> So uh >> Mike and Cole we were on the sidewalk. Yeah, it's it's a little hard to see >> on the top. >> I just circulate through them. >> I don't know. >> So, my my concern was
we could have Well, there's a little um >> a bump. Yeah, a little bump out right here. And in order to access the work area, you'd have to cut into this. So, the question is uh you just said that maybe some of this stuff could be used to back fill at the base of it. But my
question was, um, there's no place to really stockpile these things. So, every stone once you cut in here, this material, I guess, would have to be taken out. >> They'll need to Yeah. So, they'll need to um there'll need to be a
>> one bucket at a time, >> a machine parked here >> and and a a smaller machine would come around the back and they'll scoop from here as needed. empty a bucket in in into that and until
it's full and then that that that'll go up and stockpile outside outside of the bucker zones. It's it's not an easy >> construction sequence for this. >> A lot of projects are like that now. >> Oh yeah. Yep. Um >> one bucket at a time.
>> Yeah. >> Not like five gallon bucket but like skid steer bucket or >> skitser bucket. Um, I'm, you know, I'm thinking that this wouldn't have to be hope, I'm hopeful that this wouldn't have to be activated out and then be able to pull the machine up onto it and then and then work on the wall itself
from maybe a different angle. >> But that, you know, so that brought my the question is in concept. I mean, it would be nice if the house wasn't in the way. It'd be a real easy job, but >> so it is challenging.
I didn't do that alternative >> and you can >> and you can kind of see this little part that would have to be excavated in the backyard. So is this is this a reasonable request that we in concept say yeah you need to do it and it's
doable but get the contractor to describe if we describe what we think should be done and then it has to be translated to the contractor or transmitted to get once the contractor is here um get their take on how they
would actually do it. I don't think they're at that stage in the project or not. >> If I may speak to that, Mike, um what what I had thought with that is we we go through this order, this notice of intent, order of conditions process. We
we outline what the commission is going to want to see and that that that's in the order. We have an idea about how how the work is going to be done. They'll bring a contractor on board. We'll go over that with with them. And if they say, "No, you can't do that. No, you
can't can't do that." We're back here to to discuss this with you because that's a that that's kind of a redline change on the permit. Uh we we would re review that with with if if we review the the significance of anything that a
contractor brings up with co Colby and see whether it's something that we just end up discussing at the kickoff meeting or whether it warrants me coming back here with an updated plan saying I need
to have a minor amendment to the order to cover this bit of work. Um, think >> does that answer your question, Mike? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Okay. Yeah. Um, Pat, do you have
thoughts? >> A lot of this is going to be what the contractor is going to bring in for equipment. Is it going to be rubber track? Is it going to be excavated? Etc., etc. There's a lot of variables in this. >> He can get Yeah. If the contractor brings in a bigger >> fall down to his responsibility.
>> Yeah. If the contractor brings excavator, there might be fewer trips, >> but you're trying to get a bigger piece of equipment. So, >> we're going down that road where I'll get separated into this and >> you know, um >> we're falling into what what contractor means.
>> It's the responsibility of the contractor to bring the equipment in, figure out what he's going to do, lease disruption, etc., etc. Yes, >> Kobe's going to be in there doing periodic inspections of it >> and he's going to know when he's in the danger zone and he's gonna know when
he's not. >> Um, right. And this is right on the shore of the Squan Cookook. And um, >> can I point out one thing? >> Of course, that might allay some fears. Um, right about here, there's a natural
burm right on the river's edge. So the work that would be done would be on the low side of the burm and the rivers on the other side. >> Yeah, this is Thank Thank you, Mike. This is kind of a low spot along along the the river. Yeah.
>> So, and you know, in that regard, doing the work, you're going to track it up. You're going to move that probably BM around. not move it around, but it's going to be >> you could you could get by. >> There would be an impact going
I think the end goal because this is really this is imminent property damage. If we have a 100redyear flood, >> um there's that part. Um, I I feel that as long as the area is restored to the natural grade or the great existing
grades, you know, including the BMS and this and that, it' be a great time to get rid of the knotw weed if get someone on. But, >> um, >> I I think in my opinion, that's that's the that's the end goal. Um, how we get there,
>> there's a lot of different ways to to do it. Um then it's just matter of >> has a question. Hold on. >> Oh my goodness. Um the retaining wall that's there now. Is the new one going
to help sustain that or is that going to be above that? >> The new one is going to replace it. So we we're going to put it in the same spot. So we're going to take take out the existing wall and put in a new one. If we put a wall in front of the existing one and then back filled, we we
would be filling in the flood plane. So, we can't do that. >> And and structurally that is >> and structurally that's suspect. >> Yeah. >> One of the things, you know, I I in the detail is the the geo grid which is a geosttic that holds the retaining wall
block back. it anchors it to the slope and it's done in multiple layers um you know in a kind of a pattern like first layer and then the third and fifth layer and so forth and there's different lengths you know based on how much sir charge which is the weight of the slope behind it. Mhm.
>> Um, you know, part of that also is you don't just bury the bottom course on the, you know, ground. You you bury that 12 in plus down >> generally. Yeah. There there's a full course of block buried underneath that
there's probably there's 12 to 18 inches of stone under that, >> right? I mean that schedule will come when the con when >> the next stage when and if if whoever's going to do it however they're going to do it that'll demonstrate in the whole new schedule. >> Yep. And that
>> the base of it is he going to put crushed rock in? Is he going to put drainage? Let's get through this. >> No. So that any no matter what rock or what wall or material they use for the wall, it's going to have a element of drainage associated with it.
>> Yeah. So there will be daylighted pipe coming out. >> Yeah. >> Um you know that that's how these walls are designed because otherwise you have hydrostatic pressure build up >> and the hydraology will just knock the bottom out right to the top. >> So when you excavate for that base
course though like said you you got 12 to 18 in of stone plus 12 plus inches of block in there. So you do have a significant depth that you're excavating. You're not digging, you know, 10 feet, but enough. Do you know
what? Any idea the soils? We We know it's sand, but is that area built up with like a silty sand where it may be unstable where it might they might have to over excavate? >> Did you guys do any any We haven't done any um any >> No. >> Okay. So, you I'm going to assume your
your soil horizon in that area is all sand. >> Oh, yeah. No, that's it's going to be the it's going to be the sand, but whether as Jim is saying, we're getting into the siltier stuff. >> Yeah. >> Um and you know, that's just big picture.
>> Um you know, they're going to need an area in front of the wall to stage >> um to be able to do the work, but they're going to dig into the slope >> at least 5T >> plus. >> Yes. >> Um down. >> No back. >> Back. Yep. And then you're going to back
fill it with, you know, a suitable material because that's probably all lom or >> that's going to have to get brought into. >> So it's yeah, there's a lot of different aspects to this. >> I just have I do have a question. Um it's my first time regarding a retaining
wall. Um but I have a question just like a basic almost like a designer question. So >> I washed my hands going to be about the same height. >> Oh abs. Absolutely. So the the um we're
more or less replacing the wall within the existing footprint. >> Okay. >> Of of the the the original wall. >> Oh, okay. >> So same same height. We're matching grades. >> Again though, you your footprint is going to the project footprints is is going to be greater than the
>> final. >> Yes. And I don't want to say replication because it's not. It's Yeah. The final footprint. >> Right. >> Right. So, it's going to work. >> And it is replication. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> It isn't a replication. >> No, no, it's not. It's not
>> right. No, just wanted to make sure that >> it would be a restoration. >> Restoration. >> Mike, you started to say something. I'm sorry. >> I think I might have said something. Maybe I wasn't clear with this this burm here. >> Yes. >> Uh on the water. >> And then there's the little um part that
I think maybe you could get some around it. Maybe not. But I think you'd have to take that the burm next to the to the to this the river. You wouldn't want to excavate and restore that. You just want leave it where it is. >> But you disruption something. It's going
to >> whatever. Yeah. Whatever gets tracked over will have to be restored. >> Yeah. And seated and etc. So when >> any track marks draw, you know, the soil will push out and it will just have to be reshaped to what it was.
>> Exactly. >> And that'll be as they work their way back out >> as they >> again. We don't we can't issue any permits tonight because we don't have a a file number. And um Nico, did you have any thoughts? I I know this you looked
at this I think your first or second week or >> first month. >> My second time looking at it was last March I think. >> Correct me if I'm a little earlier than that in February. >> February was when I when did when the first
>> Well, I had already seen you had already been out before I spoke to. >> Yeah. And originally I thought there was going to be more permitting involved with this, but because it's all the work is above the mean annual high water
mark. Um it doesn't chapter 91 doesn't apply. So an inland water permit is not required. >> That's good. >> Yes. >> Part of why D is taking a while
>> natural. Um >> well no no no chapter 91 >> because if it were another separate permit with the core of engineers but it is also >> what did he mean by 91 >> that's Frank
>> it's a waterways protection >> so yeah chap yes chapter 91 um would be if we were doing any work below the mean annual high high water line if we were imp impacting the quanticoook itself So
if you're in water, >> so it's a triggering mechanism in the water. >> Um we are we are definitely not >> not playing in water. >> We are not playing we we're not playing in the river water. >> Technically there it would be groundwater at worst.
>> Yeah. Anytime >> that's just a triggering mechanism. >> The only other thing I would add is that uh >> um the time of year like we discussed will have to be discussed. Uh but maybe when it comes to writing the hose, you
can have different contingency plans if you if uh you have to work in the wet season with mats or something along that lines. But that's we got on the road. >> That's a good point. >> Yeah, I was I was thinking something similar as as we were as we were walking
down to the site. You know, a contractor might the thing to do might be to put down swamp masks. That would >> and then they drive o over that instead of instead of the existing ground. >> No, not as aggressive as a corduroy or
something. >> They're all stitched together so you can drag, you know, remove. But yeah, no, unfortunately there's no easy way or cheap. >> No. No. So they would bring in a corduroy. It would possibly
>> well you know the mud master >> there's I've seen different ones >> different width too in requirement and jobs >> the contractor honestly would probably want to use what they have so it's going to depend on again
>> like I said that's going to depend the contractor will use the wiser equipment what he's going to drag out there what and he's going to want to create the least >> amount of work for himself >> right restor It is let alone a stabilization
restoration job like they're endeavoring into >> well I don't know if anyone else in our audience wants to add to it um or have any >> love it when the audience comes in >> unfortunately Jimmy
>> you guys stuff don't you have any questions about conservation and stuff like interesting You could have bought more cookies. >> Jimmy, have a cookie. >> Okay. >> Hey, hey, hey. >> Yes, Mike.
>> Uh, so if the legend could be put on Yes. the final site. >> Yep. >> And one of these norths is probably accurate, but they both can't be. They both can't be. Did my my my surveyor my
surveyor. >> What's the difference between the two? I didn't catch that >> one. They're they're they're slightly shifted. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Slightly though. >> I love it. >> No, I know. I uh not a lot. Just slightly
stands in New Mexico or else I I wouldn't have gotten away with that one. He's not He's not NY. Okay. >> I've received responses. Yeah. We're leaving Stan this. He's kind of retired now. >> Yeah. He's out of retired. Yes.
>> Right. >> Um, >> good for him. >> Yeah. So, Pat or Sandy, do you have anything else you want to >> I have questions? And so, what we're going to do is um motion for continuence because we don't have the D number. Yeah.
>> I mean, we can't issue a permit without that. >> Now, after that, once you have that number now, is it pretty much like, oh, yeah, we're going to approve it or just, you know, >> Well, um, there's there's more to it. >> No. Well, yes and no.
>> It depends. >> Yeah, >> it it's sometimes it'll move through, other times we there's other obstacles. >> It can depend on what the feedback is from the state. It actually depends highly on the feedback from the state. natural heritage could all of a sudden
go >> or other >> they can be like a game changer >> the same in chapter 91 >> um so >> were you wondering in terms of our discussion about it >> well partly yeah partly
>> so when we you know we'll continue and um at our next meeting where we discuss this um you know we'll be able to talk about it and comment about it again you know, >> that's after we get the they have the number, right? >> Yeah. Okay. You're right. So, yeah, what
we'd end up doing is I would ask for a continuence on behalf of the the applicants um to your next regularly scheduled meeting in December. >> Next week, we would be having but >> if I had if I had confidence in the D, I
would ask for that. However, >> yeah. Um there's there's no no sense in me asking for that one only to reach out to co Colby and ask for another continuence to the December meeting. So um on behalf of the applicant I would like to request a continuence
>> December 10th is >> December 10th. Okay. >> Is that >> but that's and we're only doing one meeting in December. Well, as of right now, >> as of right now and tenative next week.
>> Yeah, maybe. >> Maybe. Maybe. >> Um, so someone wants to make a motion to continue this December 10th. >> So move. >> You want to do it, Mike? >> Have to say all those notes. >> No, he didn't. No, just said so moved.
So >> it's easier. Just go so moved. >> So moved. >> I'll I'll second it. Mike said, "Yes." James Corin, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> Paty, yes. Sandra Lord, yes. >> Question.
>> Thank you. Oh, yes. >> Jimmy made the motion. I I just said it. He said, "So be it." >> Or so, >> which we've never really used it fully. I've never been confident enough about it. >> Thank you. >> See you again.
>> Thank you for answering my question. >> You're welcome. That's why I'm here. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. and Mrs. Churchville. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Did you guys get a cookie in mine?
>> Are you guys related? Is there two church bills in the in the room? >> Six. Oh, not there. Two of us here. >> Sister, brother. >> Wow. >> Same parents. >> We know him. I know. >> As far as we know.
>> Your father. Thank you very much. Thank you. Been here since 59. So I remember him coming to the house and such, you know, the doctor. >> Was your father Hardy? >> Oh boy. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I knew Hardy well.
>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's I call him dad. >> All right. Thank you. Thanks very much. >> Thank you for coming in. Thank you. Have happy trails. Hopefully the roads have been plowed. That's it for our regularly scheduled meeting. Uh so our next meeting is December 10th there. We may have one
next week to take care of the stuff that we couldn't get onto this agenda. Uh Kobe, anything else you want to add? >> Which was just meeting house >> and 16 meadow. >> 16 meadow which was the 50 garage.
>> Yeah. big garage in the close to the right on the wet >> right in the 100 right >> partially in 100. >> Okay. Because I went back and I looked that at that too. >> So uh so one want to make a motion to
adjurnn at 8:22. >> So >> Oh to the end. >> I know how. >> I'll sec I'll second it. Roll >> said yes. >> James Cory. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Pat. Yes. Sandre Lord. Yes. >> Now, should we discuss >> Oh, no. We're not going to discuss
anything. Well, doesn't >> No, we're not discussing anything.