like to call the order the uh towns and conservation commission meeting for July 23rd, 2025 at 7:02 p.m. Can I roll call vote starting with Mike, please?
Mic pods headed here. James Dorian present. James Gates, present. Kevin Smith, present. Kevin I aliance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for
which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Nice job. Nice job for 50 years, buddy. Well, that's why we got you here, mister.
Uh, this meeting is being recorded. Is anyone else recording? Chairman's uh additions andor deletions. Um, yes, you have a list. got one re addition.
There's a an anr road that's under correspondence. So 4.1 and our belly road. Okay. What else? Is there anything else? I'm sorry. Oh, that is it. I lost my pencil
in the hay field. That's an A in there. Yeah, it's just under correspondence. June 11th minutes. Um chair report. I don't have anything that won't be covered under the agents report.
Um view and approved meeting minutes for June 11th. You said yes. You're done please. Yeah. June 14th, right? What? June 14th, right?
June 11th. Change. have a chance to read anyway. Yeah, I read this one that wasn't here. All right. So, the three of you had a chance. I wasn't here. So, um no,
someone can make a motion in a second. I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes of June 11, 2025. Second. Roll call vote starting with Mike. Mike said yes. James Cron. Yes.
Uh James Gates abstain. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Pat's not here tonight. Okay. I didn't know she called. Uh I haven't talked to her. Colby, did you reach out to Pat by chance?
Okay. 1.7 agent report. Hi Colby. Oh, yep. Right. Uh for ID RS inter departmental reference forum.
Uh we had 146 Mason Road. Um and they were up they were up there if you want to look. There's not much to them. 146 Mason. Yeah, that is the old farm. Right there. Yep, it is.
Sydney Larson. And there's a map there for on site plan for that one. There's no filing on there for us. Everything's outside the outside the buffer. Yeah, there's no wetland uh involved septic replacement and I had
proved it. Y signed off. Yep. And that's and that was I found Yeah. And that would have been for Cindy Larson. Yeah. Okay. And isn't there a new house going across the street?
That's where she's going to live. Yes. That's where her and Harry are going to live. They uh sold the big house. They did building. I I understand. Okay. I haven't just They're there, I think, while they get the new house built to my
understanding in the field across the road where the old tent was. Gotcha. Got your old wetlands. Everything's outside of it. Right. The only thing I'm pretty familiar with and I'm sure they were aware of there a lot of runoff holes into that field sometimes.
Yeah, they were. Uh the next one was three Redwood Street. Uh that's another septic replacement with a wetland buffer on the property but work with self buffer and if you need to I actually have a site on is that for Patty
for uh Patty what's his name then Patty on Redwood friend it would be for again I called survey and engineer firms to get estimates coming in for survey of the
properties for the wild and scenic grant. Uh so waiting on those now what's that? Just waiting on the estimates. Okay. Who were the three out of curiosity did you reach out to?
Yeah. Uh Haley Ward, Philip Stone, Billy, Hanigan, enough. As long as we You might get You might get a couple to respond back. Yeah. And it's long as we had three.
Yeah. You know, you know, four is better. Yeah. Keeps everybody humble. Yeah. Who won the last go around? That was Yeah. Delis did West. They had done done the surveying
on D. They did D. They did West. Both properties on West. And they came right in on budget. Yeah. With what? Just a smidge. Smidge under under. Yeah. Smidge under. Smidge.
So this is just uh Yes. And then once we get enough estimates, we'll vote on it. Well, I know. If they go a smidge un under budget, then that meant they did it for less than they quoted.
No, the quotes come in less under the um quotes in less under the grants come in for under the grant a lotment. Okay. It's always two points of it. Seeing what we are allowed in the grant, seeing what the three estimates come in at. We're going to be paying out of paying
out of our budget for it. Well, not not our budget out of the grant. grant I mean yeah sorry okay it just didn't quite get so we have to get three at minimum three bids always or three quotes and
we'll go from there reminder there's flexibility in the grant money so if we need it does wind up that we need more we so there is a plus minus allowance not a minus I only said that to get your attention
yeah that was a good Uh uh I attended a webinar for it's called the mass ready act. It's a house bill. It's also known as uh has been known in the past as a environmental bond bill. Uh reason for it is that um there will
be um some changes and wetland protection act changes. Um this isn't the regular way that changes to the regulations occur. Uh but it's some kind of new initiative where they're getting kind of wrapped
into a bunch of environmental um is what they're like uh new rules. So are they looking to streamline to simplify the rules or are they looking to
That's exactly the word that they use to try and streamline. soon knows the the process doesn't maintain so arduous and difficult to be able to follow with. Yeah.
Um they are due soon. So they're still taking comments on it. If you really want to get into the weeds of this these things I have the sections that you can Were you able to chime in on any? I kind of took you I was more of a listener.
Yeah. Yeah. written 10 times to read stuff. So um let's see and one other webinar was the inland waterways permitting um that's 3
310 CMR 9.07 07 and that puts the process for uh getting permits for work underneath the um mean annual high water mark that you were in there. Um
and but I didn't um remember everything but I know where the where to find information. Now, other than that, one more thing is uh OC's. I scrubbed all the OC's and found out which ones have expired. And there's
a there's actually Excel spreadsheet there. There's uh 13 have expired. Yeah, they have expired, but they some of them go back a long time. In fact, in 2005, that's kind of an out that's an outlier,
but um that far back. Yeah. And then there's a big there's some that remember they were finding them from I don't even know how long back in the 90s 90s I think even early 90s late 80s
and there may be some others that can be scrubbed off that list too a little more research but I looked at anything stand out that might be concern that we would still want to
look at again. Or have they got to the point where honestly you might have to these than I do because I was still researching. Can you uh bring me up to speed on what we're talking about? Order of conditions have a specific
amount of time. They have to be reviewed and signed off on. So what Kobe found was how many? 13. So these are these are people that never came back to the office and said we're ready for the final inspection. submitted an application for a COC, a
certificate of compliance. So, they're kind of like in limbo until they do. Um, so in other words, would these particular orders of conditions hold up a land sale if they want to sell their house, they would if people were savvy
enough and researched it cuz I've seen that turn around and become an issue with a house that went up for sale. They had it come in from the board. It was a big well you didn't complete your order of condition so
therefore here we are it's property owner's best interest to complete it once they have that COCA in hand or on record I should say with the registry of deeds everybody's moving forward y
but as I just said there was a situation it was 22 years old order of conditions they went to sell the house and it's like boom lawyer said you got to get this off the top of the the paper so it would be clean.
So by the next meeting I hope to have at least letters out to everyone. I think some previous uh congregation agents have done already but yeah we were able to get some of them cleaned up. I would be interested to see some of them have changed hands already.
So that's what I was going to say. That would be interested to see how many houses have changed hands with our with conditions hanging. That'd be interesting. Anyway, Nick and Brian flew on Ven Pond Road.
I wonder what what you got something on Ven Pond. Who was it? Uh the Fluids. They just sold their house. A new owner just moved in. Is it What number was that? It's 35. It's the one uh next to the end.
So next the property has changed hands. The people that bought the property are responsible for Yep. They own it. In other words, if it wasn't cleared and it wasn't caught by the attorneys clearing that paperwork,
they that's theirs. It it rolls over into their lap and that can get sticky. So, uh I'm getting to know her pretty well. She just just lived there um couple of months month and um so she
should come to the office. It adds up. Okay. What's adding up? Yeah. What is it? 100 bucks a year. $100 per year and and now she's responsible even though the real estate people didn't catch it. Right. So that's why
it stays with the property, not with the property owner who sold it. Okay. and was issued in 2015 and it expired three years later. So we're talking seven years ago.
Uh so she could be 700 bucks. The reason why it gets sticky is cuz they'll go back and say he did not do a prudent review of the title and the paperwork for this house. So then that then it dominoes backwards, right?
Who was the who's the uh agent. Um, that was Jessica. They were supposed to have signed off on this. I actually got one on here. Yeah. Those ones on Warren Road. You do know that a lot of those the state did did invoke extensions on.
Was that during the um It was last year they did it. I think it wasn't due to the CO because they they uh No, I don't remember the Everything there was restored. That's Kevin. Take care of that. It's 100 bucks a year.
I didn't know that it wasn't taken care of. Let's keep it moving. Um I'm sure you didn't. I didn't. It was also Wasn't there another building permit that was in your docket? Yeah.
It's on. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can talk about that a little bit too. That's uh um on hold right now I guess u due complications I guess but I three-wheeler road um has
submitted a permit building permit for a large uh chicken barn on the property there uh on top of the existing foundation. Yeah, as you guys are aware. Yeah. Um the problem uh it is on hold uh because
there is an NOI there. Um and the NOI is broad reaching to begin with. It covers like uh all the activities uh that are ongoing on that property including excavation. Um do you mean rest or the OC order of
conditions? No, same thing. And I order conditions is what we need to talk about, not the notice of intent because that's the Okay, that's why I Yeah, let me Yeah, let me bring it back. Um,
so um if it if we look at it from a view of just as a new building permit, um I know that you have looked at it. Um but there is on the maps um a what looks like a stream or hydraological
connection which has to be inspected. Um because if it is that building falls within a 200 ft uh riverfront area but it's a matter of looking at it. Well, it's not it's outside the 200.
It's an agricultural building and it falls under um maintenance of said building. Well, that's how I look at it. They they took they took the building down to a single floor, right? They took they took a level off
the two two levels off a single floor. Let's not I'm not going to get wrapped into the details for me. I I want to make sure that as a commission we are following mass D's guidelines with
regards to this. Now we can't just throw out agriculture freely because I've been myself into trouble in the past, but the the building in question is an agricultural commercial agricultural building that um
is was pre-existing. It used to be a chicken barn. It's going to be a chicken farm. Details about everything else. I don't want to be part of, but I want to make sure that we follow timeliness. And I understand your frustration because you're not
allowed access onto the property. It is a matter of operating our commission as within our guidelines. Now, that the hydraologic connection is between two ponds. It's at 202 ft at the
mean annual high water mark as you said. because I haven't seen so but it's also falls under a um which NASD has a exemptions um and does
it does and as you know you have to be careful with them um but because the farm has what 75 year history of being a chicken farm that that is part of it um so I I don't want to go much more than
in terms of it being in the room. Three of you can discuss it. I'm going to step outside. You're going to chime in. You But it it's just a matter of making sure we follow the law and if we have to reach out to the state to ask questions, we
can and we should. Um, so I'm going to step out. It just I I don't want to I don't think we should be discussing it because it's not even Well, I don't think we should discuss it should be in in question because it's really outside our jurisdiction order
conditions. Yes, it is broad and and it's it reaches the entire property. I know that's if we're working under the in the OC, but is this like a new building? But it's not a new building. No, no. It's an it's it's a renovation of an
existing building. Isn't it Isn't it a renovation of an existing building? No, it's it's actually considered it's actually that was a raised building. No, the building was only taken down. We'll raise the use that in terms of demolition.
Well, the No, because the if if you raise a building, you've removed the building, right? You they did not remove the entire building. They took they they took the two top floors off and down to this first floor and they're going to put trusses on it and rebuild it. It's on
the existing foundation that's there. Okay. And it's out, in my opinion, it's outside of our jurisdiction. This is really simple. It really is. It's a building permit.
It's a re It's a building permit for renovation. Just like additions get addition would go under the very same thing if there single room was being put on the house and it would had possibly not even definitely but possibly a wetland area
involved with it. I would put it on hold. I would go out measure it look at the wetland area approve it or say that it needs some kind of permitting through the wetland protection act and then it would move on. Right? That's the same exact thing
that's should be happening here. And and you're right because I know you had a question about Sean Tossy's on road and you talked about it and you you said on the map it looks like it's close and I said uh I don't know Sean from a hole in a wall
but I know that you know based on apartments he's had you guys know he's always been good but I know he's he stays far away from it. So I know he's Sean's always been very good. OB is trying to that's my job. It's if there's a question if it's questionable whether
there's a wetland regulated excuse me a resource area involved I have to go look at it just like there was a property up on uh Route 13 there. It was just a it was just an addition. Um, but it was
just close enough to the 200t riverfront area that I went and measured it. And you know the things on online, they're tools. They're depictions of what's there. They're not absolutes, right?
Commissioners are measured. I measured it online and it was 167 ft. I did a field measurement. It was 202. not to the water but to to what the highest point on the
or to the actual radiant of the bank where it but you also did a measure. I measure at I I measured it at I measured it around 210 ft. I measured it at around 20 28 to 210 if
I was going over the fence. The problem the the problem is the the the problem is in this particular case the owner is is well it should be in this particular case it should be in all cases well in all cases you you don't have the
owner upset but but uh I also look at that more I also look I'm also I'm also looking at at that is is um how do how do we hold up a guy that's that's That's taken two
stories off the building to make it a safe a safe, manageable building from three stories. That's not an efficient, manageable building. Taking it down to a single level for cleaning and and such. And and uh and how do we
how do we how do we even re I don't know how we have any jurisdiction over what's going on there. I mean, he's over he's clearly over 200 ft. I don't even know if he has to be over 200 ft. I'm only thinking it'd be 100 ft. So, because
that's a ditch. That's a ditch in the middle of the That's a swale in the field. That swale is is is there collects water. The the the two ponds were clearly dug to water the cows. I mean, I got a couple of them at my place that every family got, you know.
So, my I I guess my question is is why are we really even having this discussion? No. Well, a not it's just a transparency on interp
does um we have to have the discussion because presently this commission is holding up the permit. So the discussion is necessary but but I think any further discussion we will need to put on an agenda. Mhm.
So really what we're doing as individuals, as commissioners, having a brief discussion is to what we're going to keep this brief cuz it's 7:30. Well, I only want a minute to be able to chime in on this. I have gone out and looked at it. I know what we're looking
at and I understand where where the holdup is and I understand where the difficulty is with con the commission and the owner. We need to come up with a resolve to this because if at this point in time, not blaming you, not blaming
the land owner, we have a communication problem. We need to see if we can get through this and get some connection made to get this to move forward. Yeah, that's a timesensitive project. And did you Well, okay. So, I'm going to
go back or not go backwards, but were you able to reach out to the people on New Fishburg Road? I sent a letter. I had not u been able to actually actually make contact. So, I sent a letter. Okay.
I go by another you want to go in. No, no. I I No. I I drove by today. You can kind of see the Yeah. Jim, did you have
No, I I my comments are that bit frustrated with it and I'm not sure if the OC should be used to hold up this building permit. We went out with three commissioners. We measured it. We established and I
understand I'm I I only did it out of the courtesy I don't want to be involved in. No, but Kevin and I went out and measured it. I know it it is in excess. I know why the water holes where they came from, etc., etc.
We need to get this resolved and we need to move forward to get this to the building inspector. So, let's rack our brains to get this on the agenda for the next meeting. But this needs to be addressed and
expedited. Well, I don't even I just don't even I I don't even understand why the process the same for everyone here. I understand. I truly do. Was this Did you guys go out before I was on the board?
No, no, this just last week. We thought you were going to be away. Oh, so we invite you to the peekaboo. Sorry. That's all right. We figured you were up there with the window. Thought you were having fun. We have Michelle waiting,
please. Yes. Um, so we're going to move on to 2.1 um climate action plan. Michelle Zolinka um to renew caps from other towns in order to determine items that Townsening can
incorporate. plans uh include opportunities related to waste reduction in natural agricultural lands as well as additional ways to build resiliency and sustainability beyond just reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
Hi Michelle. Hi. Yes. Thank you for having me again tonight. Do you need uh screen sharing? Um I sent example of examples of the um other town's climate action plans to
Colby. I'm not sure if I can share my screen too if you want me. Harley, can you give us give Colby screen sharing please? Uh sure. Uh is he does he have his own computer?
Yeah, he's signed on. Streer Oh jeez. or two years ago. One is Yes, that's Yeah, I'm going to have to come out and check it. Yeah, those trees are dead. Huh? Those trees are dead.
They are. You don't have a smile. Would you like hanging or link up? Um, let's go with um Lincoln. I think that might be sort of the best example. Um, but yeah, my my main reason for just
sharing these examples is um I just wanted to show that, you know, I know we we kind of talked about this last meeting. Um there's, you know, energy, transportation, and buildings. Those are kind of the the big um top three sort of
greenhouse gas um uh emitters. But there's with a climate action plan, there's more than just that. There's also um you know opportunities to build resiliency
um protect uh natural lands. Um, and so I I just wanted to provide these examples to just kind of show you that it's it's more than that and it's it's not just kind of focused on um the greenhouse gas reduction. There is the
aspect of um uh preparing for climate change um uh and making natural lands more resilient. Um so I think if you go kind of down towards the end there's also the table of contents. you'll see
um the working lands and natural resource section. Um and that will show just like some examples of um actions that towns can take to um kind of improve that
resiliency. Um and then it also explains carbon sequestration um through natural lands. Um, so my main reason is just, you know, to let you know that, you know, I'm I'm helping the town work on this plan and I know there
are some aspects that I think overlap with your work. Um, so I I just want to let you know that this is this plan is is happening and that you know if there's any um opportunity for review or or collaboration um I definitely want to
in invite that. Um so with Lincoln's it provides um kind of like an explanation of baseline conditions for the town um an inventory of their natural lands um forest cover things like that. And then
um if you kind of scroll through that section it provides just a number of actions that the town can take to um kind of improve resiliency. Um, so that's that's sort of why I kind of wanted to provide some of these examples
and then again um invite participation and make you aware of of um what I'm I'm kind of helping the town with. Uh who is it in the town that you're working with?
So um let me back up uh first. My role is um is funded through a department of energy um energy efficiency conservation block grant. Um so the town of PPL they
applied for the grant and they were awarded the the grant. Um but they wanted to invite surrounding towns um so towns in Littleton and Dunstable to submit projects that they would like to have some assistance with. Um so towns
in um the town administrator Nelson, he wanted help with this climate action plan. So that's that's where I I come in and that's that's my role. Um and that's the reason why um I'm sort of yeah again helping the town with this
plan. Hey, is it okay if Colby shares this with us? sends it to my house so I can look at it more closely. Yeah, absolutely. And if there's other lands you'd like to look at too, um I
can find other examples. Um I also sent another example from um Hangingham. Um but again, there's still very similar actions with that as well. Um and where are you in the process with um
PPL? So, Pepil um I should mention too there are different projects um that were submitted. So, Townsen and Littleton both um wanted assistance with um the climate action plan. Um Dunable is
looking at an energy reduction plan. So, it's a little bit of a um less broad focus. Uh and then PEPO also is looking for assistance with their capital planning process um and identifying measures for electrification
um of their municipal buildings. I'll ask you that. Hey Michelle, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I have a question. It is in hopes of uh personally understanding it better. Um
what are environmental justice communities? Yes. So, um, environmental justice communities are, um, neighborhoods typically that have sort of borne a, um,
disproportionate brunt of, um, like environmental hazards. Um, towns in so environmental justice communities in Massachusetts, they're kind of broken down into either um, by race or um,
income. Um, so Townsen does technically have um a section of town that is considered an environmental justice community, but that's based on income. Um, so typically like lower income um residents.
We have an area of um interesting. What are the implications of an environmental justice community? Again, this isn't to put you on the spot. It's so I can understand it better. Yeah, of course. Um so we want to make sure with like a climate action plan
we're kind of incorporating um those inputs from those individuals and make sure that um you know we're addressing that that that problem um within the the plan. Um
so the only thing I know about it is that it requires it is a threshold for permitting with NEPA in Nissa. Oh okay. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. In our favor form. No I don't think it is but that's my
personal opinion. Right. It adds a great cost to projects. Okay. Again, I I am asking Michelle these questions because I'm trying to understand it better.
Um, and yeah, kind of continuing with that. Um, I know towns in like it's maybe not expected. Um, a lot of times these communities are kind of in more urban areas um exposed to more um, you know, industrial hazards, things like
that. Um, so that that's sort of I guess what what you would think of maybe when you think of like environmental justice communities, but there is also sort of the um uh income as well is a factor.
Always is. Mhm. But the cost to permit something is a lot higher for that project, Mr. that was done done when that No, no, not for that project. For for other projects.
Okay. So, we're looking at it. So, it it's based on what this disturbance of land. So, like an acre or two acres. Is there a minimum of disturbance? Do you know what the disturbance uh
threshold is, Michelle? Uh I'm not sure about that. That's fine. I again I'm not trying to pick on the on Uh, I think that would probably be to this to the project. Yeah. How much do they allow?
Hurry, Colby. What do you got pulled up? Uh, I went on to the next town. Yeah. Hangingham. Right down to I went to their natural resources. Hangingham. Now, what's what would Hangingham's
gross population be opposed to towns at 9,000? I don't ask Michelle. She's she would know better than Michelle. Michelle, do you Well, first, do you know what Hangingham's population is? Second is can you go through the chart that Colby has um up on the screen right
now to kind of give us an idea um you know of things that can be done to help um as I look at small the urban concentration the amount of houses well if you look at it you know towns is a
town that is it 38% of the total value of the total land mass in towns and is owned by the state and the town. I think it's actually more than that more than that. I think that's changed recently.
Right around that, right? That's it. Yeah. 40 40%. 40. Yeah. So, in other words, you're right. 60% is owned by the community. The other 40% is owned by the fish and games. So now when
you take out the years ago we did it on the town properties the development study many years ago and if you took out and I I thought that number then was 38%. So it's 40%
which makes sense. And then when you took the wetlands Squanakook River, Habond all the ponds are and ashwam the tributaries brooks coming in and you took that up it became
like 60% of the total land mass in town. 60. Yeah. It was something maybe it was 55. A lot of area over half. Yes. of the total land mass of towns and is basically off off limits to do any
kind of development. So I think back and and I'm going back 20 years I think when we we did this when this assessment was done that towns would never be overdeveloped. It would be impossible to overdevelop towns because there was the land area land rock
elevation every imaginable between the the solid rock Mhm. between a big wetlands and the buffer zone, the state owned land for fish and wildlife and MDR uh forest and parks especially because they're large land owner
DCR too DCR. Yeah. And when you took all that into play, Towns and didn't have a lot towns would never was it would be impossible for Towns and to have much more population than I,000.
But I think it's more than just development. I mean, let's face it. Climate change is happening now. It's going to get worse. Uh, that little town in Texas, I wish that they had taken some action. They could have and saved a
lot of lives. No, Mike's right. Because they had updated the flood maps and they didn't pay attention to them. No, you know, every town every town is going to have a different plan. And there's no boiler plate that's going to fit every town, but we'll be the town that doesn't take
some kind of action to mitigate what's going to happen when we have uh 6 ines of rain in in two hours. You know, things the things well done well which we had that we we have had that in
actually I think it was 9 in we are seeing what we are about. Yes, correct. And that's why that's why I was interested to to see what these other towns are doing. Some of those I'm sure can appi be applied to towns.
See if you take that map right there. Is that the town of Hangingham? Go down. Is that the town of Hingham? We have to scroll back. What? What? Colobby, I'm going to go down a little bit to see what they address in their plan. Well, I was I wanted you to go back to the map that showed the greenway and
green area. In other words, you're talking about what the Oh, hold on. Right there. Now, see that's that's the town of Hangingham. Yeah, they mentioned it here. Hangingham has about 25% of their land in conserved property. That's it.
I think everybody's string there because you we're seeing the issues with housing, budget issues, um you know, and reduced areas that we could develop. Yeah. So these strategies
I think we need to really start focusing um and paying attention to them so that we can intelligently develop the rest of our town. Well, we're not going to be able we're going to have we're very limited colby. We're very limited when you take when
you take out the land that's probably in permanent egg and there's a lot I know I've got a lot that that'll never be developed. um in my lifetime or the next lifetime, my next generation. Um
and then you take all the other egg land, but you take the state that the what what forest and parks I call them forest and backs DCI and fish and wildlife owns and all the buffer and the wetlands towns and is never going to be
able to I don't know what you could ever call overdeveloped. I there was an assessment done this was 20 years ago I'm going to say and they felt that the most population that the town could ever have would be 10,000 people. I don't know if that's right or wrong. We're at
9,000. But you look at the development that's going on. There are no big pieces left that can be developed. Correct. You know for theund the 700 homes like was in Timberly Park, there's none of
that left. What you got is two lots here, two lots there, you know, maybe four or five somewhere in the corner. They're all going to be small. Yeah. And the four or five are very You'll be lucky. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You know, you
if they'll ever come up, so I I don't know. Mike's got something I can I can tell. Well, it's it's just it's it's more than development. It's like when I went to that uh talk on culverts, it isn't just a matter of, oh, we need a bigger
culvert because there's got to be more rain. It's like, well, what can we do downstream or upstream to absorb a lot of this extra water? So, there are a lot of things that we can do that can mitigate flooding and damage. Correct. Yes. Yes. other than developing.
I mean actually in the farming world we do think about that mechanism down in the field across from me how that floods out. I mean I have a Lake Victoria one morning and the next night it's gone. So that mechanism
just the field at your house will do that. But if and as everyone knows, if you watch the Squan Cookook, like if you ever want to see something cool, check the Squan Cook when it's really high, you know, first thing in the morning and go back in the afternoon. Oh, yeah.
And it goes down. It's incredible. That the It's a fast changing. It's a It's It's fast changing. I've always been amazed by it. And the water table's right behind it. Correct. So, you know, spoken like a true resident. Mitigation is going to be
expensive, but what we're going to spend in towns is nothing what other parts of the world are going to have to spend. You know, we have to face the fact we have to do something. Texas is a great example. They had the hurricane built through there a couple
years ago and they had houses built with within a flood plane that no one paid attention to. Yeah. Yeah, this is why Hang's paying attention because they they mentioned in there a couple of the cyclone bombs or something. Micro burst. Micro bursts.
Oh yeah. Big snowstorms and some big raintorms that create a ton of damage. A lot of money that they have to spend. I zoom in to that table so we at least I can read it a little bit better. Maybe please. Thank you.
And yeah, I just want to say, you know, you're all saying really good points and um again, like you you were saying, um no, like every plan for every town is going to be different. Hangingham, of course, is on the coast, so there's going to be um you know, that aspect as
well. Um but in towns in you mentioned, you know, the flooding, um the wetlands, um and then also drought, of course, extreme heat. Um so all all of that is is sort of also in play um when kind of developing the plan as well. Um and
again I want to emphasize too it is sort of the beginning stage of the plan. So I'm I'm still kind of formulating um these ideas and and um would definitely welcome any any input as well. Thank you.
Well, keep up the good work. Thank you. And yeah, I just want to also say next Thursday, July 31st, I'm doing a public outreach event um kind of explaining the climate action plan process a little bit more and and um
offering some initial um points that might be uh might I might use in the in the climate action plan. So, um, basically, what's the location? It's, um, Towns and Public Library, um,
their meeting hall B, which I think is right next to like the main library entrance and, um, it's at 5:30. So, um, but yeah, it's Oh, I'm sorry. It's on the website.
Last time you were here, we had some discussion about trying to get No, I was just going to ask you, Tommy so I can know. on those Thursday, July 3rd, as they enter the town, there are some signs that uh announce the electric signs, electric,
unfortunately, I I don't think that is going to happen. Um, but I have been I did go to the um band concert um on the common um and a few people were were interested in attending, but um I'm still trying to get that that
registration up for the for the event. Um, I am going to be coming to town tomorrow for the second band concert. Um, and then also uh just uh looking for other opportunities to post the the
flyer. What What did you do at the band concert? I usually stay till aftermission. So, how did you present something? So I basically what I did was um I had to get permission from the um host of the
event. Um so there was a church hosting um and kind of helping set up and I just went around to people and explained what I was doing and and gave them flyers. Okay. All right. Good. Thank you. Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you. And again Yeah. um if you're if you're interested in attending um again next Thursday and um I really appreciate you um letting me explain the climate action plan process a little more and um really appreciate your your input.
Thank you for your time. Thank you for your visit, ma'am. Keep us up to date for that. Okay. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you. Have a good night. Thanks. It was interesting. And I just watched a
special recently about their overview of what a 100redyear flood event is. Nothing changing. Anything we look at that's demonstrates or the state, oh that was a 100redyear
event. We won't see that again for quite some time. There's very much wrong. Very much. I personal opinion on that is we we've seen it. only records for 150 years. Mike would probably know better.
150 years, I think. You know better cuz you're older. He was a science teacher. 1834 is when they started. No, just kidding. Either way, 100 to 200 years. Yeah. Things are going to get interesting.
Things are changing regardless of Yeah. But the model the modeling that they had said this is a hundredyear flood. This is a 500y year flood. And now we're having 100redyear floods uh yearly. Yeah. Every year. Using a different terminology.
Biblical. All right. Never seen it before. I can't never seen this before. We don't have records that go back this far. That's concerning. Yeah. We're going to move on to 3.1 if
everyone's okay with that. Um, no. I'd rather go get an ice cream. I'll make it quick. Okay. Examine town properties that need to be sold or transfer. Discuss properties that have conservation value. Um,
yeah. So, I did a little work on uh on going around and looking at the properties that were on that list from the last meeting that I saw. I went to three areas and some of them are comprised of multiple um properties with
like this up there. This is uh of a proctor road and I just want to give you a better sense of what the properties are. Gotcha. Gotcha. See if I think they could be best put into conservation commission.
We should. That's the one right is that the one right behind the high school. Yeah. Okay. And that's four properties that makes up that um this larger area. Yeah. Right on Proctor. Yep. And what is the acreage?
I think it was like 15 maybe. All right. So, it's one of the bigger a little less ain't it? Maybe an acre a piece. Not that much. Right. Right. Right. Well, that piece there is that piece on the left
when I was on the properties committee and I pulled my properties committee app back on. Y that piece was like four acres, was there? And there four lots in there. There is though. Uh the back side of that along Edwards Road have a big property owned by Mr. Savage.
Yeah. Also all the way to the back side. It does. And we owned one property in that other corner on Edwards that just got sold. So 2.4. And then these are kind of all the same similar.
I didn't think it reached on the way to the back. It ends up being like 2.9 acres. Okay. That's all it is. I thought it was like four little piece. Hold on. Yeah, I think like four. Yeah, a little over three acres.
A little over three. Okay. Okay. I thought it was like four. Well, again, a little over. Yeah, that's all right. Um, that's a nice piece of land. Beautiful conservation. No development going there. You could you could you can go and pick
cranberries in there at the right time of the year. Truly, there's two of them. There's one right down the road from there, too. Where do you get the access point? Yes. Um based on this on Spalding Street. Yeah.
Crocker you park. I I don't know really how you get to it. And then there's a little piece of property that Well, it's frontage on Proctor. It's frontage is on Proctor right right at the end of the school. Yep. You know, I mean it's just a cranberry
properties. Yeah. Then there's a privately owned cranberry bog up the road from it on the opposite side on the right hand side behind Andy's the side Andy's house. Yeah, my son-in-law's place. And then you got the one another little
section that's on there. Is any cranberries in there? The piss on them down in the back. I would assume once there was there'll always be. Was this commercial cranberries? It looks very similar. Yeah, I think at one point in time they may
have been doing some cranberries. My grandfather my grandfather used to used to harvest cranberries down there. Yeah. Go in with your old scoops with your weight and something was telling me um a question. The the one that you're talking about
that private that's private is that on off to the right damned pond there. No no no above that. Okay. There's no cranberries in there. That's actually a a pond. That's, you know, a nice trout pond, swimming pond.
Comes out of that brook there. Whatever. Uh where is that? Come that comes off North End Road, right? No. comes off of comes out down from Hannes Road from the Haynes road swamp down comes out of the Hanes road swamp goes down
through the woods and comes across eight Proctor Road I think it is right up toward Tommy Connor's house further down the beginning of the road right behind Tommy Connor Tommy Connor's house on the right I know comes down through there
of that same waterhed goes behind Tommy's house goes down crosses is Brock Road right below Andy's house. Yeah. Okay, that makes in there 15 Proctor 15
the one from the last meeting. That's that is that book. Yeah, I just like to throw it out. I did it at the last meeting. Would it be on our best behoovers to find a way with some of these landlocked small pieces of property
where if we were to approach the abutters to offer them to buy it so we could build up a larger amount of money to purchase a more substantial piece of property for our conservation commission
or agriculture? You'll never get anybody in my opinion of these small pieces to us. They're just little slivers. And if an says, "You know what? I'd be more I've always got my eye on that little piece and my neighbor would like the
other half." Well, I'm not sure that piece of property falls into that under that criteria. Right. Ones that I will agree with you 199% are pieces like the stuff off of memory road. over in that area, you know, get
them back on the tax rolls for the town. I've said that for years serving up properties, you know, offer them to each one of the people. Whatever they bring, they bring something and then they bring a couple hundred bucks here and in back in back in the coffers for the town
and then those people can use and there's several of them over there. Kobe, you found a few of them. um you know then uh you know the people can use the land themselves right give something for them and if we can get something to put into
our coffers and maybe at the right time the right individual say listen I'd like to sell this to conservation it's a big track of property do you guys want it yes we do well that the the money that would come
from the sale of that land I believe if I'm not mistaken go back into the general fund in the town. I don't know that we I know cuz everything or we've seen that happen too many times. It goes back into the GF and let's
just reel this in. We got to run every had long day and week and month. Uh it's not funny. Maybe we're good at conversations. I get I get it, Jimmy. I just don't know. Don't worry. We have more to have
similar conversations. Let's just move on to the next property. This is uh reservoir part of sumac. Yeah. Which is over emery development which is pond
cherry I think it is overby. No bixby. That's the Bixby reservoir area over there. That's right where the bubbling bear lives. Right. Wasn't those halfacre pieces, ain't they?
Yeah. Yeah. The little halfacre lots that the developer couldn't couldn't do anything with and just gave basically uh let the town take them. But you I will say all of these things that um were the ones that I thought had
the greatest conservation value because they're all wet. develop on them and um which we should be overviewing of. But some of these small little slivers, I think we could use those to look
better. Um and like you said, Kevin, they were to be absorbed by the homeowners. No, you're buying homeowners. Well, but not like this one. It doesn't fit the criteria. Yeah. We've got to do a breakdown of AB
CD properties which is this that that you know which I mean he's we struggle we've struggled with that for we struggled with those pieces there on the properties committee for 20 something years and I'm not sure what you would generate
for for the sale of them either after transaction if you generated a hundred bucks or a thousand bucks people can add that land to the I've seen you into their lot, but you're also getting another $100 a year out of
it. The town's getting another $100 a year out of it. You have 10 of them, it's a grand and sometimes it's better if you want to look at it that way. Little slippers off the books and the and the people are using them anyway. Mhm. Or they're encroaching. Well, they're, you know, they're they're roaching or they think, you know,
chicken coops in this. Yeah. All kinds of that kind of stuff. Okay. So, that's big world. Yep. and my computer post. Is this the conservation commission camera that you're using and everything, Joe? I'm sorry. Is this the conservation camera and
everything you're using? No, I use my old I found the iPad that you were talking about, but I got to find the password for it now. That was on a sticky note somewhere. I don't remember where. It should be in in your doc. It's like your stack of paper that you received, but I don't remember where.
Jess would probably know. Yeah. What? Jess would probably know. I'm sorry, my computer froze and it's rebooting. So, but I thought for some of this stuff right in the middle of that development on Willow have So, are they itching to have an answer
from us? So, no. Then by the end of the year, they got they kind of want to have these properties settled. They move them, sell them, sell accurate. No, you're you're right. Yeah, we got to get rid of them. So, should we break
them down to figure out what category they fall in? Well, he started to, but it's pro. He was trying. He was trying, but he lost he lost control. So, in other words, we'll look at it as a keeper. Something that we should speak to the about
the bigger pieces. I can see there's a few bigger pieces that I I think the town should hold. I've stressed that to the properties committee. But these little pieces, these are all insignificant. Have bigger lots. Thoughts?
Well, my thought is uh tangential is that does town have a land trust? No, not it was rolled into North County Land Trust. Okay. I mean, meaning No, North County.
North County, which is basically fishing like kind of water, isn't it? What? kind of like vision. Uh, same thing but different. I I think they're a little bit better. In in town in in Chsford, I was on the
board of Chsford Land Conservation Trust and they had some really nice properties. I was just thinking some of these properties are beautiful and well, those ain't those ain't those ain't any of them. Those particular like the cranberry bog.
Um, yeah, but you know, some of them might not generate any generate any income, but if they were out of Arkansas, well, you take the cranberry over there, people can go and pick cranberries. I know a few people that still do. Yeah. No, I was just wondering if there
was a land trust and it could be a nice train ground for some of these. Put it in conservation. Just just put it in conservation under their jurisdiction. That's what we're planning on doing with some of our lands in the in the in the
near future. So, due to technical difficulties, but I wanted to go to conservation due to Yeah, I'd have to get back on and share it again. That's right. So, let's just move let's roll off, but we need to discuss it. We kind of have to
until we get through the entire list. We'll have to pick away at it. Yeah, we'll pick away at it next meeting tonight. But it does at some point. Well, we got to deal with before the end of the year. How many pieces are there? I mean, if you guys
23 pieces, I think we're driving around town. If you're stopping at these places, see if they really do have some kind of value to the town. I think I think you and I have tripped through them at one point. every inch of it. I you know I just need
to remember there isn't there isn't any of there isn't a piece of property in this town. I don't think even way up into the Benton Pond reservation across the towns and hill that I even stepped my foot on at some point in my life.
I don't think as much as you had you printed out a list last time. Yeah, Mike, I believe. Did you take a copy of it? Do you need a copy of it? Uh camera with us. He's in a sheriff folder from a previous
meeting and put it in this meeting. Does that work for you guys to put some of that shimmy? I always enjoy getting in on my computer and looking at that stuff. Yeah, Google Drive is better, but that got taken away from us. Um, really? Can you guys get in there and at least
see files and pictures? Yeah, I can. Yeah, I look Yeah, you know, you know the answer to that that Mike can kind of I can um I can print stuff out.
Well, color, but in terms of just a list of Yeah, I'll put it in the in the new shared folder. There's a little less of it because There has been a few pieces auctioned off but I still think there's like 20 40
okay available still. So the goal is the end of this actual calendar year, not the fiscal year. What? This third quarter. It was very l It's a very loose
endless calendar year. Let's try to get We've been cleaning it up for years. We knowing that it and this is not a dig to us, but knowing that it will take we go down memory lane with these, which is fine because some of us have to understand where they are.
Sure. Um and and and the value of them because you guys clearly there's a value to those two just the two that we talked about which in terms of environmental organization. Yeah. Um so you you got their top spots.
Yeah. Um but we pick keep picking away at it. Hopefully more than two at it for a lot of different reasons. Well, we when we started off many years ago at the at the inception of the town
properties committee was probably 25 years ago. I' been I've been on it for 25 years and when the original stuff came to us our our first few meetings I was a lot younger then and a lot more
spry and the few pieces that I hunted on or walked on I walked on. Yes. Evan, I'm not saying there was 62 pieces or 68 pieces, but there was a lot of land, a lot of it. And we've called a lot of
it out. They had an auction this year and called a few out. So, where did they go? How did they get trickled into the town? Did the Butters buy? Were they purchased and sold lots? They were sold as lots. They were uh added to uh people that already own
property. Butters bought them. or something. Over the years, you know, we auctioned a lot of it off in the last 25 years as we just we had a lot, didn't we? Cuz we didn't auction this just a couple months, but
we auctioned off the old towns and water department, West Towns, land on Highland, Adams, some land in Timberly Park. I think there was a lot. Yeah, there was some there was some parcels around town that got auctioned and they all sold. They all sold. Yeah.
And there was I I heard the number and it was like interesting. We paid 70 I think for something. There was some stuff that went for a lot less. Yeah. Um I think that piece up towns have brought 300 and change
across from you. Across from Dallas. What do you mean across from Dallas? Across from across from Dallas. The old water department, right? Just up from just up from any dows as we know it. Well, across just say the old waterworks. The old waterworks. Three and a quart.
I think that fetch 3 and 310. I can't remember. 304. Yeah, that was Richie Ross's garage. It's better than just sitting there and they're already working on it. The local local bought it. So, we got Yeah, I think it was the environmental guy.
At least that's my g that's what I gathered. I I I I believe what's happened because I seen vehicles up there. Yeah. And he's just clean. He wants to use Yeah. Us. But it it was a fetch a decent number. Yeah. And that goes to what? So we can get rubbish picked up again. Huh?
I don't know. That money went down. No, I don't think it went there. Bob, at least my buddy Bob got it. Hey, let's get to the meeting. Let's get to the next meeting. I have about uh I just bought 780 bills of hay. I'm tired.
No, you definitely have 250 off before I came down here. Wash myself down and you move on to the just keep picking away at it. No one um 4.1 ANR Bailey Road. Um
yeah. So just acknowledging the ANR approval not required plan for uh 28 to 30 B road. It was the application not approval not required. Approval not required. Um
you could can I just keep on going? Yes you can. Um education conferences MACC always has stuff. Um, and check the calendar cuz they also have trainings. See if we can get Mikey sent out to
Walden Woods for a couple of those classes. What a what a nice I'm sure Mike pays attention to them. Have you seen anything come up in Walden Woods? No. I went to three classes there and boy,
they do a great job. Leslie, I went Yeah, I know. just down from the pond area. They have a beautiful education center there. They have regular even better than
the woods in Framingham. Really? I'll check it out. They had some top shelf instructors there. Yeah. Uh items for discussion next meeting. Uh 71 Pitford Road, notice intent for subject replacement. Uh,
schedule sitewalk is what I wrote. But yeah, no, which one did we do a schedule? Hold on. Hold on. Uh, there was a legal notice that went out for that, but it went out a day late, so we could not have it on this meeting. Oh,
and we had a re it has to go back in the newspaper and it was Well, I don't it doesn't matter. You just missed out there. Is how it happened. Is it outside their is it passed the 21 days
um from will the hearing open 21 days after? It will be need they'll need to sign the waiver. Yeah. Okay. I'll do that. I I haven't emailed that. It's okay. But I'll get the waiver signed just so that you're covered covered.
It's not a big deal. Yeah. I don't I want to see the newspaper cover that charge too because it was really a miscommunication with them. Okay. So that will be uh when's the second? It's actually 3 weeks from now
13th of August. No, but the the notice of intent for 71 will be the 27th and I'll probably stop up into the office one point in time. There's five of these OC's. I was on the commission
when these were um Yeah. 71 Mason. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I already talked to him about that. I did when I dropped that on commission when we started ticking away at those.
Right. So that was into the riverfront. Yep. Um so next meeting is August 13th. Second meeting August is August 27th. Is there anything else? So we have a three week stretch until Nice.
Think you're going to be able to get all you hate on by then? Make a motion to adjourn at 8:18. I'll second that. Roll call vote start. Yes. James Dory. Yes. James Gates. Yes. Kevin Smith. Yes.