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I'd like to call to order the Towns and Conservation Commission meeting for um Wednesday, June 24th, 2026 at 7:07 p.m. Can I have a roll call starting with Mike? Mike Mike said, present. >> Abigail Farley, present.

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>> James Gates, present. >> James Dan, present. >> Sandra Lord, present. >> Brian, present. Mike, please. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it

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stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. This meeting is being recorded. Is anyone else recording chairman's additions and or deletions?

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Um I'm going to add um a 4.2 letter um to uh Mr. Wayne Bellic uh who is representing the

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owners of Zero Sver Road and I will read it on record under correspondence. He was a site engineer. >> Yes. Representing John Melo Jr. L. >> Is he the one that we sat with on the

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sidewalk? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Only because I mentioning there was another Wayne. Uh chair report. Anything I have will be covered in the

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agent report. 6 review and approve um meeting minutes for April 22nd, 2026 and May 13th, 2026. Did everyone have a chance to review them?

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>> It's only one up there as all time permitted. So, it's for April 22nd. Okay. So noted questions, comments, motions to accept the minutes. >> Yeah, of course. >> Okay. I'd like to make a motion to

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accept the minutes of April Wednesday, April 22nd, 2026. >> Is there a second? Second. Discussion. Roll call vote. Starting with Mike. >> Mike. Yes.

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>> Abigail Farley. Yes. James 8. Yes. James D. Yes. >> Sand. Yes. >> Brian. Yes. I'm actually going to backtrack to 1.4. Um, under five, we're going to add 5.1 um upcoming

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con um conservation commissioners uh training and KBY and I have a date for what >> the training the D is going to come. Is that the circuit writer? >> What

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>> is that with the circuit writer? >> Yes. >> So that would be Nia. >> Emily has moved on. >> Oh, she's in Boston. >> Is it? No. Emily Petro. >> Yes.

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>> All right. Um, the 1.7 agent report. Uh as far as ID RF interdependent departmental referral forms, >> what were the dates that this covers fully? >> June 18th through June 24th,

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2026. >> Thank you. >> You want me to uh do that from now on? >> Uh yes, please. >> Sure. >> You usually don't. That's just why I asked. Okay. So, um

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came through for nine bridal path. Um it's a septic replacement and there's no wetlands involved. I looked at the I have more information on the MACC handbook budget. It's the e handbook which is what's available. is

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$20 per uh commissioner and what it has um I'll read the other features it's online you have to have an internet connected computer or tablet um I have to ask them if get it on your phone I

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think would that be useful yeah I would imagine so um I got to think it is um you know it's available 247 revisions push through immediately ly at no cost to subscribers. Uh legal policy,

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scientific and technical information and guidance, 22 chapters and eight special topics sections, word search, pop-up glossery of perms, note-taking function, internal and external hyperlinks, ability text and dollars.

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Um, uh, like I said, for those who would like it, uh, be $20* 6, it's $120. Um,

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so about that, get back to me. Um, >> I can tell you right now, I'm interested. I would like that. >> Okay. >> Well, if we all want a copy of it, we might as well just all vote for it. Um, and we can put it on the next agenda to

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vote for it. Obviously, it's not on here, but >> agenda >> will also be Yeah, because it also be past July one. >> Yeah, >> you can you can ask um the accountant what account that can

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come out of. >> All right. Receive grant updates. uh the mass trails grant that we applied for. Um and I I'll I got a correspondence about this late. So I

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I'll put it on the next one, but I'll give you a quick updates for all of these. We didn't get it. We didn't get uh neither did we get the wild and scenic land grant survey. Didn't get it. A lot of a lot of properties and um and

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that got applied for it was the explanation I got. um and a lot of properties that were less protective than what we have. So, they deemed it um not necessary as

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not a priority this time. Um >> you have a copy of that email that you could or is it in the folder? >> Yeah. Uh it's not, but I can like I said, I came in late so I can put on as a correspondence finish. >> That'll be great. >> I'll email it to you, too. Is that going

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to ultimately agree apply? >> You know, I don't think it went to the conservation inbox. Some of um >> Adams Dam has the preliminary data report being wrapped up right now. So,

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they have all the preliminary data and they're going to couple edits and corrections to it and some have it out by the end of this month on the 30th. Uh, but we do have the data. It's

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actually a folder this thick in there. Um, so I didn't print it out, but and I did actually send out a link, but it's through Google. It may be problematic. So, um,

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>> but I need to know how, >> right? I didn't receive a copy of that. >> Okay. Um, I can also why don't I um download as PDFs and send it to you. It's just it's cumbersome, so

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it'll take up some space in your inboxes. Is that okay? And it might have to be a couple emails. Like I said, it's a book. Um, on that everything else is going to be

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later in the meeting. 2.1. Hold on. Um, as part of the court, have you heard me read one of these before? >> Possibly. >> So, I'll read this one. Um, and then

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I'll give it to you so you can read it. Um, you don't have to read out loud, but you can see how I cuz like I don't sit there and read the entire Zoom information. Um, and I try to um shortcut stuff um without leaving out

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information. So, I'll read it this time and then you get to do it next time. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> I do have some experience uh reading legal documents because I took constitutional law. So, I do understand that. >> Perfect. Um

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so pursuant to the mass WPA in the towns and wetland bylaws, the towns and concom will hold a hearing on Wednesday, June 24th, um 2026 during their 7 p.m. meeting. Uh the hearing will be held virtually via Zoom um and in person at

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town hall at approximately 7:15 p.m. on a request for determination of applicability filed with the concom as TWWB 2026-00009 by the Townsen uh Historic Society. The property is located at one south street

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assessment map 33 parcel 44-0. The proposed project is for temporary installation of scaffolding in and along Swanok River um the Squan Cook River for the purpose of restoration and repair of sighting for coup building

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um which is uh within 100 ft of a bordering vegetative island in within riverfront area. Parties wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or in writing prior to the meeting. Copies of this application are available for review at town hall during

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business hours. So pretty much just um like the mass EPA. I don't say it all out. Um you know, same with the concoming >> what >> the mailing. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> You

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certificate of mailing? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. um >> that son >> it it doesn't it's not a requirement for RDAs. >> Okay, cool. >> You sent a copy of the state, right? >> Yes. >> Thank you.

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Um Frank from Dillisoy is here um representing historic society. You have the floor. >> Thank you very much. Um as as um Jim said, my name is Frank McFarland from

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Dillis and Roy here on behalf of the town's historic society. Got it right this time. Um so the proposed pro project that we have uh in front of you tonight is the repair and restoration of a siding at the historic sping crew bridge at one south street in Townsen.

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Uh project site is located on the southwest corner of the intersection of Main Street and South Street in town towns and Mass on a 0.32 acre lot. Uh the site is completely developed um and contains the uh historic Spalding

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CBridge which was constructed around 1790 along with associated parking and retaining walls. Uh significant site features include uh granite the granite retaining walls which define the shoreline. uh granite blocks reinforcing

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the riverbed at the base of the towns of Far Harbor Dam and the Cantal Gable of the Spalding Coupe Bridge that extends over the Swanagrook River. That's um that's the the section that they're looking to

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add in the to install the temporary scaffolding to walk around and be able to work on that side of the the river. Generally uh the site is surrounded on uh three sides by wetland resource areas

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that include river to the south, the harbor pond to the west on the upstream side of the dam and mil race a to the north. The west side is of course South Street. I said the propos the proposed project

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is repair and restoration of the sighting. Um they're looking to install temporary scaffolding to provide access to the southern gable of the coupridge. Uh that scaffolding will run uh south side south from the east side of the

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building. Bear with me. This this gives me possible headache every time I had to write it out. But um south from the east side of the building, west along the southern gable, and then north along the western building um face. Basically,

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we're they're going to put it on three sides around the building to provide access. Um, adjustable jack post will be placed on existing granite blocks in the rivered. A level of the scaffolding and a tarp will be hung under the scaffolding and secured to the underside

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of the gable to collect any debris that may may be generated from the uh restoration of the siding. Uh the project will not alter areas defined as bordering vegetated wetland bank or bordering lands subject to flooding as

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defined by mass DP or town and wetland protection bylaw. Uh there's no excavate no removal, excavation or dredging of soil uh sand, gravel or aggregate of any kind imposed. No change in pre-existing drainage characteristics. Uh no drainage or

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disturbance of the water level or the water table. Uh no driving of pilings or erection of buildings or structures of any kind. Um no placement of permanent obstructions. Um no significant destruction of plant plant life is proposed. They're not they're not

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looking to remove any vegetation as part of this. Um no change in w water temperature and um no activities or work which would pollute the the stream or body water is is proposed. Um

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I've stated the site includes bordering vegetative wetlands uh which are basically defined by the existing granite retaining wall around the property and their associated 100 ft buffer zone. Um a 200t riverfront area

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which is 200t landward from the top of the bank which in this case is essentially the granite retaining wall along the river. um bordering land subject to flooding. Um that is associated with the Squanook

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on site. Basically that whole section of town is within um flood flood zone for the Squanook and Towns Harbor. Um project does not include any disturbance of BBBW on the site. Um, as

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far as riverfront area goes, uh, the entire project site has been developed essentially since 1790. Um, no new permanent alteration of the repairarian zone is proposed. Uh, and the work consists of temporary installation of SCA scaffolding.

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Uh I did provide just to kind of check check the box a table of existing and proposed um repairarian zones and uh on the on the property uh there's 13,940 square ft of repairarian zone uh 0 to

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100 ft which coincidentally is the same size of parcel. Um and 100% of that um repairarian zone would be considered degraded. So it's not um it's not of any um any significant value um when when we

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look at through the w the wet weapon protection act um and yeah the spalding coup bridge is located within zone AE um and along the flood way of spawn river um as depicted on the town county town and towns and uh

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latest effective firm flood insurance rate map as of July 8 2025 as I that is most of that section attack along main main street. Um mitigation measures um

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we proposing um kind of straw waddles around the limits of work um up to the uh retaining walls. It may not be all that necessary. >> You're going to put strong waddles in

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around for >> I was thinking in the water Absolutely not. No straw. I I have a straw waddle called out um around the pardon area. >> Correct. >> But um not not in the river.

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>> I understand. >> Yeah. >> What's the necessary application for straw waddles for staging in river area? >> I don't think it is anymore. I call all this out on the original application and um just as general engineering practice,

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but then when I was out on the sitewalk with with the commission uh yesterday morning, right, I I was looking before I got there before the commission got there and the the work zone is very well defined by the granite retaining walls

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which come up above grade. So um I don't feel that there's a need for any kind of um erosion control measures around the site. >> So you have granite knee wall in that whole area. >> Yes. >> To put straw waddles in this move. >> Yes. >> Unnecessary and and just overengineering

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on on my my part. So I I I know no longer feel that those would be um required. The major mitigation me measure would be the debris target. So that that's going to be attached to the underside of the bottom layer of scaffolding as I had detailed at all on

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the plans and then brought up and under the cantaled building so that any debris that falls would would there was no um clear access and path to the uh to the river itself. >> And our biggest concerns with the top

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underneath there it's being mitigated for lead paint. Yes. >> So that's the biggest concern. Yep. >> Any wood product also is good to catch. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, they're um so they're I know

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that they're I thought they're probably replacing a lot of flatboards as well on as needed basis. It looks like they're replacing all the wood all the way. >> I think so. I I think so. So they're going to basically duplicate what they've already done just on that side. >> Correct. >> Yes. So the only question I have is that

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is all those things going to be preainted or they put them up or are they going to put them up and then have to go back and paint? >> Great question. >> Uh that I am unsure of Bill. Do you know the process? >> I would ask John because John is from online. Oh, Jo,

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>> could you uh repeat the question, please? >> Uh Jock, the the the question was are the boards going up preainted? They are all >> Are they being prepainted and pre- primed or are they being installed? Is the clapboard being installed and then painted?

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>> Uh the clapboards are pre- primed before they go up. They'll be painted on the on the building once they are up. The intention at the moment until we get up there and really see condition is we are not planning to strip that wall entirely, but to replace uh necessary

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clapards. So, spot repair with prepainted clab clab boards and then um a finished coat of paint. >> Prep prime or pre- primed. You just said after

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everything's done, they'll go back and paint. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Josh. >> Welcome. >> Um, do you have more to add? >> Um, that's that's the the bulk of it. Um I regular um I have a section on

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regulatory compliance, but it it's a whole lot a lot of we're installing temp temporary scaffolding. These are not really we're not really um causing any impacts to the these items. >> How many contact points are you planning

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on? We have one, two, three sections. So it'll be in between 8 to 12 >> right >> points of contact in the riverbed area. >> Yes. If there is two sections, it'll be eight. If there's going to be three, which I think Jacques said to me,

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they're going to put three stansions in. >> So, basically, there's going to be 12 contact points of about, >> you know, 6 in diameter or so. >> I think it was 4x4 or 6x6. >> Yep. And that that is going to be on the

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um the rocky bottom that is is there as a reinforcement at the top of the dam. So there is enough granite slabs for the >> granite slabs and boulders. Yeah. >> Okay. How >> So they've got good stable contact

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points everyone. >> Well, yes. So two questions or three actually. How long is the staging um >> going to be up for? >> That was my question. >> Um Jo,

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>> I expect it up for a month. >> Okay. How often is the tarp going to be um emptied or cleaned or however you want to? >> My understanding is that it gets emptied each day. >> It'll be what, Jacqu?

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>> I I my understanding is it gets emptied each day depending on the amount of material in it. >> Excellent. >> Um third question. What if we get a 100redyear rain like we did what three years ago when we had nine inches of rain or seven inches of rain in town in

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three hours, four hours. >> The scaffling will not be uh impacted by the water. Clearly, we'd have to get the tarp out of there knowing the uh rise of water. Um, >> we didn't get any correspondence back

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from NASA. Everything cool with them. >> Okay. >> Um, so we can go around the >> I also do want to note that um now seemed to be one of the best times to do it. Um, water is currently not go going over the dam. Um, it's it's um using the

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the mill race and going around. So, this is as dry as that area is going to get. Now, is there any ability to increase the flow through HUV's waterway just to e even lower any of the water going over the dam or breaching through the dam

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cracks? >> Not that it would matter. >> Right now, there doesn't really seem to be any going. >> It's where in are you talking if if it does >> a diversion tactic to drain more through the sleuth?

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If I mean that would >> maybe >> I mean the whole side story >> kind of a doom and gloom there. >> How long how long uh do they expect to take to set up the scaffolding?

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Probably pretty quick. >> I wouldn't expect it taking longer than a few hours. >> Okay. Um, with in regards to tarp, you mentioned that if we get a big storm, we'll have to take it down, but what

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about just regular high winds? Are we going to have to worry about the tarp maybe blowing some of that debris off or the fresh coal being chipped away because of high winds or something like that? >> No. So I would think any kind of um

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significant windstorm they they would be wanting to get out from that that work zone. So that would that would end that would end the day. So so that would be considered the end of the day and have to get that clean. >> All right. And you remove the tarp out of

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>> it. Abigail we so what we can do is um we >> to the discretion of the con. No, no, no. We as a or part of the um >> conditions is we can require them to remove the tarp at the end of every day. >> Yeah. >> So then it doesn't have to get babysat

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overnight. Just throwing it out there. So keep asking your questions. I'm just >> But that number you going to want to put that burden on the contractors to take that top up and down every on and off every day. >> They have to empty it every day. >> If they got to empty it, that's one

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thing. And if it's clear of debris, secure it. Make sure it's all I mean, >> I leave it just because if anything drops overnight, >> that that was that was the thing I was thinking why I didn't want them. >> That's >> I mean the you got to have scaffolding

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and everything's going to be tucked up underneath it. I really don't think even with some high winds it's really going to go in there. >> Is there is there an estimation of how long this project will take? I'm just curious. So I I think um about a month.

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>> Oh, okay. >> The uh the tarp the deleting process is shorter than the month, but to take it through the repairs, deleting repairs and painting, you're probably looking at a month >> cuz that front gable took them all of a

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month, didn't it, Jo to do that? The opposite side, the adjacent to it. >> Yeah, it did. And uh again, we really been able to look at this closely. The north side had some structural repairs that had to be dealt with. >> Okay.

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>> Like, >> so the there's lead on all of the boards >> most likely. I guess this is on some boards and >> Yes. And so the D and some boards will be taken down and removed I mean and

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replaced. But are all the boards that are left up there going left up going to be deleted? And what is that process like? I mean is it like sanding with a giant vacuum cleaner or something? I'm wondering

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about >> Oh, abatement. Yeah. Um I think >> you know how the abatement is done for the lead paint >> and then >> you're not going to be sanding they just scrape get off the loose stuff >> right

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>> and the next acceptable approach to it is you paint it what Jock said was they they're going to be scraping loose paint off so this isn't a this is isn't a scour to bare would abandon it.

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>> Okay. >> I just have a question because I'm not familiar with the the containment in DLED places. I know with asbestous they have a certain thing. Is it similar to to asbesus when you have to have everything covered and >> this won't need to be counted.

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>> Okay. >> Good question. >> Thank you. So, I don't want to dwell on this too much, but if they're scraping loose paint off, I can see little pieces of loose paint fluttering down, not necessarily falling into the chart.

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I wonder if that's a concern or not. >> That's what I was thinking when I was asking about like if it was going to be temped, I guess, is the term. I was thinking about that, too. Yeah, >> it is a licensed dleting contractor that's doing the work. I'm sure he wants

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to protect his license. >> Yeah, I think I >> Well, I I tell you, I saw someone do asbestous removal one time on a property and given it was licensed, it was still kind of question questionable. >> Well, I would be a little bit crazy to

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do that. >> And at the same just looking at that over the water, >> it's been flaking. How long has been chips of paint falling in there? Now we're going to cut our losses short,

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reduce it completely, stop it, but in a perfect world, >> we should have a vacuum cleaner with a bunch of people underneath there. I don't see you know, >> but how much is falling into the riverating it now rather than

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moving on? Yeah. Yeah. >> Am I not going to get a very good point? >> No, it's a great point. You don't you have to just rip the band-aid off on this one in my opinion just to get it done because otherwise >> Yeah. >> Um >> I like the bandaid.

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>> It's going to be coming off of bigger trucks anyway. >> That's true. >> It's not like it's over time where a little piece breaks off. It goes down the river. A little piece breaks off. Right. I like that ripping off the band-aid analogy. That's a pretty good one.

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>> It It's >> But it's true, you know. I agree. >> So, I think we've all brought up good points and good questions. And >> you laughing at me. >> Oh, no. I already complimented on them. I was just thinking it was a little harsh. I mean, >> I mean, it kind of hurts when you say it

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like that. Oh, but that's all right. Got to get it done. Um, >> so we discussed uh special conditions. Um, >> any public >> what

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>> any public comment concern? Obviously, this concern this slide button better than letting it just fall into the river. >> Abigail, do you need to see this? Do you want to >> uh I saw a photo of that second was up

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there. >> Okay. I have one thing. >> I saw that. >> Yes, >> you want I haven't checked. It's in the pool. >> I saw that. >> Do you want check the filing fee? We have 75%. >> Um >> it's not 75% discount. I don't know why

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it's word like this, but it's >> 25%. Um >> I applied the search charge because we were in the riverfront, >> right? Did you also apply the nonprofit discount? >> No, I don't know that I did. So, uh, organizations operating as 501c3,

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uh, charities and nonprofits shall be charged 75% of the listed fee for the, uh, applicable, uh, project type. >> And that pertains to >> I was wondering why the check was in there. >> Yeah, thank you. >> That pertains to our our file.

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>> So, confirmation. So >> I can get a new cut new check cut. >> Well, right now we right now Disroy has cut cut the check, >> you know. So um >> and I'm sure that that

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>> but it's on behalf of a non the guy. >> So what's sorry what's the one that check >> the 75% discount? No, no. 25% 25. You pay 75% of >> what it normally would be. >> The fee goes up and then down.

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>> Are you sure of that, A? >> Yes. >> So, um um I let Let me grab grab the check and I'll get you a new one tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> What was the overall number on it for

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the filing? >> Uh 28125 for the RDA fee and the uh in the rear wire. >> So, um it's worth it. >> Yes. I mean, what negative would this

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be? So that so that's why we it wouldn't be a negative. It would be a five. >> So we can talk special additions if we have any

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um to the permit. As long as the cleaning of the prop on a daily basis, I don't see anything other than >> as you said, Mike, the responsibility of the contractor, his license for the deleting. As Jes said, those guys need

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to pay strict attention to every bit of the mitigation. You know, we can hold their feet to the fire, but my biggest concern would be need to clean the carpet every day, however it may be. Vacuum removing and reinstalling it how they do

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it. They don't take it down, shake it up. >> I would take if that's the condition, I would take cleaning of the tarp and leave, you know, means and methods to the the contractor. That way, you're not dictating >> correct job, >> right?

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>> Because then if it goes wrong and they're doing it the way that you're saying, >> yep, blame gets spread around. Nice job. >> I was thinking of a roomboa. >> Yeah, there you go.

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>> Is that in the perfect form? >> Well, this would be a good time for me to learn this negative. Um, you know, how how does this work? >> The jargon when you're accepting something like this. >> Seems even I'm a teen teeny bit green on the

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negative five due to the river front. We don't often pulling it up >> get that. Do we? I don't I don't remember >> a negative five coming up quite some time. >> I don't know. That's what I want to find out. >> This is why we're doing a training. Jim

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Jim is pulling up the RDA regs, but um the the there there's a series of determinations that the commission kind of grants um specific to the project for a request for determination of applicability whether it's um and

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essentially the and RDA has a lower level of you know filing filings and burden burden of proof from a notice of intent and With that the commission identifies which category kind of covers

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the work >> and we usually work in the realm most of the time negative3 twos not this is even Jimmy will mention it's I haven't really >> start

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>> on a five but that's all due that it's in the riverfront directly. Yeah cor is that is was that would be correct Frank um what triggers it to a is that we are on direct

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>> we're within the river um I just find it >> in it literally >> okay thank you um so this is positive determination you want to Go down to the negative, please.

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Right there. So you see negative negative determination of three has within it buffer zone which do not apply to a riverfront area. makes a decision somewhere,

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>> right? Hold on. Um, okay. So, negative determination is no further action under the WPA is required by the applicant. However, the department is requesting it uh to issue um

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superseding determination of applicability. work may not proceed on this project unless the department fails to act on such requests within 35 days of the date. Um the request is postmarked for certified mail or hand delivered to the department. Uh work may not proceed at

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the owner's risk only upon notice of the or notice to the department and to the concom requirements for requesting uh or request for superseding determinations are listed at the end of the document. So uh negative one is the area described

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in request is not an area subject to jurisdiction under the act or the buffer zone. Negative -2 is the work is described the work described in the request is within an area subject to jurisdiction under the act but will not remove

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fill dredge or alter that area. Therefore that work does not require the filing of a notice of intent. uh negative3 is the work described in the request is within the buffer zone as defined in regulations but will not alter an area subject to jurisdiction

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under the act. Therefore said work does not require a filing of an NOI subject to the following conditions if any. Um so that's where we can do a special conditions. Uh, >> isn't that more the reason that we work

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in the negative three because of >> no in front of us because they're in the 100, 200, 35, etc. >> Hold on. Let me just get back Peter's being >> um negative4 is the work described in

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the request is not within an area subject to jurisdiction under the acting buffer zone. Therefore, said work does not require the filing noi uh unless the als and until said work alters an area subject to jurisdiction under the act

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and negative apply the area described in the request is subject to jurisdiction under the act since the described since the work described therein meets the requirements for the following uh exemption as specified in the act and regulations. No notice of intent is

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required. Um, so that'd be an exempt activity, which I don't know if >> I So, in my reading this, I think we were scroll back up. I think a -2 and a negative three. We're working in the buffer zone,

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>> but we're also not removing filling, dredging, or altering. So, >> doesn't cover, >> correct? But it but it covers the buffer zone. Negative -2 would cover the river. >> Yep. Oh, >> and then three

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>> two would cover the rubber front there, >> right? Correct. Yep. A -2 and a negative. You could either do a -2 only if you have no conditions or a -2 and a -3 and then you add your conditions on to the3.

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>> Would that cover us better with a two >> and a three >> and a three? >> Um, >> no bases touched. >> Let me let me finish. Um number six is the area and or work described in the request is not subject to additional review or approval by

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u name of municipality pursuant to a municipal wetlands ordinance or bylaw which is obviously not this. So um yeah negative this is not an exempt activity. So it would be3

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-2g3 in my opinion. Uh, do we have session? I know that was a long- winded statement on all of those. >> Uh, I think I agree with >> maint. The scaffolding

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is within scaffolding. >> I just want to make sure I get this. Um, so three is where you put the conditions like the tarp and removal and cleaning of the material at the end of each day. >> OC. Yeah. No, it would never

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the conditions aren't. >> Abigail, you started to say something. >> Uh, I think I agree with you from my understanding. Uh, two and three sounds like goodgative -2 and negative3. >> Brian, Mike, >> negative two, good. And then on the three, we just had the condition that

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has to be cleaned every day. >> Make a motion. Or do you want >> I don't want to read it all out. So move you want to bl I don't mind. So >> is there discussion or comments from the public

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>> or will be >> I really think number three is reserved for riverfront area which is not considered a buffer zone. >> Well, aren't we working on riverfront area because we're putting the scaffolding on in the river. We're

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actually in the river in the river. So I don't know how much clear you can get. >> Are we in the river area? Yes. >> Yeah, >> Abigail. >> In the river. >> Yeah. No, >> directly 100%.

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>> Saying that, >> right? >> That's what I'm saying. So that's what >> it's 100% in the river. That's what's kind of throws us off. We don't usually get or put anything in the river. Yeah, we're listening. >> No, I was

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agreeing realizing what you're saying. >> And even if it done count the it's still the above river part which is still riverfront area. >> So no matter which way you look at it, we're riverfront.

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>> And what I'm just letting new commissioners talk it out, too. And you know, as far as buffer zone goes, so yes, we're 100% in the river repairarian zone, which yes, is not a buffer zone. >> Um we're we're also within 100 ft of,

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you know, the wetlands associated with, you know, the edge of race A. We're associated, which is not a riverfront. Uh we're associated with wetlands, you know, on the south side of Harbor Pond. We're we're we're within 100 foot buffers as well, which was why I I I was

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thinking that the mechanism for the commission would be a two and a three. And I think we're all in a good track. So, >> we got a roll call. >> I mean, N. >> Sorry. Sorry. I'm jumping. >> Yeah.

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Get Emily's advice on this too if you like. It's >> who advice and the circuit writer. I I If when did you submit this to the state? >> Um this would have gone in um the same

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day I filed on um June six. >> Yeah. So they'll they'll respond if they >> if they see >> they have questions. Um >> Frank, you said June 6th. >> I believe I I upload this on June 6th.

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>> So I make a motion to issue a negative -2 and a negative three determination on um the project at one salt street TWWB 2022-00009

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with a special condition of the um debris from the tarp be removed daily >> I second roll call or discussion yes >> what >> no I didn't hear you

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>> at the end of the day that matter Well, we wouldn't want to leave it the cup full of lead or materials overnight >> in case it was a heavy windtorm over clarifies it makes the end >> at the end of

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>> I thought you were questioning why >> no >> we do it at the end of the day just so >> no I didn't say that >> I couldn't hear you very quiet very very quiet >> so uh special with a special condition that Var is um clean of fiber daily at

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the end of the working day. Second Abigail second. >> Mike says yes. >> Uh Abigail Farley. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> James, yes. >> Sander Lord, yes. >> Brian, yes. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> I like the process. It takes you a while to get there, but you get there. You know, >> we all have the same concerns. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it's >> Mr. Chairman is time period that I have

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to wait for the scaffolding to be set up or we do it as soon as we >> the order. >> No, we we have to sign this. Um we'll have to sign this and then you once you receive it, you can move forward. Um so I don't know how long it'll take. Kobe

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dropped it and then >> Well, is that >> okay? Colby, we'll try to get it so we can sign it by the end of the meeting, but we can't we really shouldn't do it like that, but we'll try to get it to you as soon as we can. Jo,

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>> I can't ask for anything more. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you, Jo. All right. 3.1 um town Historic Society 72 Main Street um

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properties discuss the cutting of trees vegetation within 200T riverfront and the 100 foot popper. Um yeah, this isn't what I thought it was going to be but uh so discuss a

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remediation plan. Um and an update uh there will be no public comment at this time. Um Frank is here with his crew and um you know everyone mind introducing themselves so that

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>> who you represent the towns and Historic Society with me is Bill Ry from the Towns and Historic Society and Sia >> Lakewood. Right. Got it. um from um uh the in the um the indigenous landscape

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initiative uh group. Um so um previously in I I had submitted a restoration plan that uh the commission had had remarked on as lacking. Um unfortunately I was not available to um present that that

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that plan at that that that meeting and I I apologize for that. Um, since that time, uh, I have gone out back out to the site of 72 Main Street, um, with Colby to first, um, verify all of the

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stumps that were removed on and around, all the trees that were moved on and around the property. Uh, we flagged those, numbered them, and then I had a survey crew field locate them. Uh at that time we also when the survey crew

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went back out I also had them uh refresh the wetland flags in the area in case the commission had a desire to pull tape. Um but uh what I was a able to identify were 18 stumps on or around the the pro the property that had been

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removed. Um uh five of these stumps are outside of the jurisdiction of the commission. Um, I've noted those as stumps 5, 9, 10, 11, and 12. Um, this, uh, restoration plan.

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>> Yeah. This uh restoration plan also depicts um the approximate limits of the ecological restoration and stewardship areas A1, A2 and B1 as depicted in the uh the document that I submitted to the

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commission titled notes and initial stewardship recommendations harbor pond project draft which was prepared by group. Um the intent of that is to develop kind of a comprehensive ecological restoration

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and stewardship program in the areas along the north shore of town and harbor including Main Street Main Street Streets it over. >> Yep.

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>> So the um these these proposed 18 of them >> um would eventually >> can't read it but somebody on the other side of the table from over these are the 18 trees. these um these restoration

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act activities um would require an order of conditions from the commission. So we will be filing a notice of intent to to cover this work. Um there are also some planned improvements that the historic

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society has for 72 main street including a um a gravel parking area and replacement of the tight tank at the uh the the the septic tight tank at at the property. Um so we will be submitting a notice of intent for that work. Uh the

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um historic Society and Squad Greenways is also looking to install a gravel walking path within the existing rails um from 72 Main Street West to 80 Main Street.

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So there is as kind of a walking path. So these um these activities are going to be a future filing that I'll be bringing before the commission. But as part of kind of this um this activity to

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identify what went on at 72 Main Street and all kind of future activities in in the area, I wanted to u identify all all of those and get them in front of the commission so you know what's what what's coming and what's been um what's

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kind of been the intent to act as remediation for this tree remov. Um, one of the things I some of the things I added to the restoration plan include um existing native species on

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the property that humane as well as invasive species and of course the um the tree removal table that um has the the stump number, the diameter and species um confirmed with Colby when we

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ran in the field as well as some notes as to the conditions of those um of those trees from what we can see from the stumps whether they appear to be dead, decaying um that that kind of in in information as to the health of the

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tree that was removed. >> Kobe, I had mentioned to you about some trees. No, you go >> that were already cut in front of the historical society that he had just >> Wally had just cut the stump down

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because it was just John. We didn't accidentally get those in the mix include those. >> Okay. I just wanted to double check. >> Zoom zoom zoom. >> What what what trees are you talking about? I'm sorry. I didn't >> front. So along the road. >> Oh. Oh, I see. >> But those are also outside the our

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jurisdiction. How many outside of our jurisdiction? Five. You said >> there were five. Yes. >> So, because my question is um it wasn't about those though, but um Colby, I thought you had a different number when when you did the you went on the sidewalk.

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>> This doesn't include the two from Amy, right? >> Correct. This is just the trees around uh 72 main street. And these were field confirmed with >> KBY. Okay. Um, I was in the in I was out

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with him. We I had flags with numbers and I stuck those in every one of the stumps and then my surveyor picked those up and we so we both have the same list. >> Okay. Cuz I was there were maybe two trees. I guess it was outside of

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missions, but >> five of them like near the harbor church. >> Yep. Those those are being treated separately. They're different property. >> Okay. So, >> those are being treated with the amended

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um the amendment request for >> because there were two of them that were totally gone. The stumps, >> correct? >> Okay. But those those are those are in another filing that um I hope to have in

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front of the commission. But um I have some adjustments to make and I'll I'll be getting Kobe either um probably Monday at this point. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Say that's a new development, right? Yes. Those are being separated now. >> That's not new. We talked about that.

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No, I mean separation of them on 80 Main Street outside of these ones on 72 Main Street. >> What do you mean by a new development? We had talked about that. >> Because they were all all the the little trades were being pumped together.

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>> Yeah, Jim. My my initial plan that I I had submitted to the commission to try to do document all this had those included all all in the same file. No, I know. So this this diverging of them, this is the first time that a plan

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>> Okay. I'm just making sure because it's nothing new. >> Correct. No, no, no. These these are not newly identified trees. This is just um but as far as 72 Main Street goes, it's 18. >> Correct. >> 18. Five of which are outside our

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jurisdiction. >> Do we know which five? >> Yes. >> Yes. So if you look ask Mike has Mike is the man of the >> the legend. >> Show Brian which ones are outside of the >> what numbers are outside.

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>> So the numbers that are outside are five 9 10 11 and 12. >> Those were noted in my letter to the commission and those are also noted on note 6.2.

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referencing right now. Right here's >> our >> What was that question? If they're out of our jurisdiction, we don't care. >> We care. Well, I mean, we care, but they're they're not really, >> right? That's

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>> we we can't do anything. >> We can't do anything about it. >> Yeah. The trees are out of our jurisdiction. We don't have authority over them. >> We can't do anything about it. >> You seem very confident in that. >> Yes. If they're out of our jurisdiction,

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then we don't have power over them. >> We have to define we we as a conservation commission, >> but we as private citizens who probably can uh read between the lines of legal legal

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ease and come up with something >> correct. And very subtle. Mike, can you can you repeat that? I'm sorry. >> Well, I was just saying that um >> that

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we was defined, you have to define we. We as a conservation commission, it's out of our jurisdiction. We can't do anything about it. We as a private citizen perhaps could do something if we felt strongly enough, but that's not what we're here for,

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>> right? >> Yeah. You have to find ways. There was a method to the man. I'll challenge you. It's a good learn. >> It's It's a learning It's a learning experience. >> You want to keep following? >> Yeah. talk about

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>> the other um the other thing that I um I identified on this plan and provided more in in more ind depth information on is the um what the uh historic society greenways and and greenways are

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proposing to do in partnership with the indigenous landscape initiative um in in the area. Um and that would be this >> that would be the this draft currently draft document is still still a living

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document that's in preparation by group if you would like to um speak to it more um one or two but uh what I what I did identify on this 72 Main Street are

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areas specifically around 72 Main Street property that were identified in in in the draft document and that's ecological restoration and stewardship area A1, ecological restoration and stewardship

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area A2 and then ecological restoration and stewardship area B1. So those are the areas that are on on this plan that are hatched with kind of kind of the plus side. A1 is to the east the northeast of the

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property. um >> towards the monument area. >> A2 is south um kind of the southeast corner of um the the plan plan view that I have there and

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then B2 is the western most hatch. >> Yeah. >> Um so uh >> so D1 and D2 are down the road. D1 C D1 and D2 are more in the vicinity of 80 main. >> All right. So that's a se we're going to

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maintain that separate in this scenario too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Good. >> So what what I'm showing on this plan is I'm trying to illustrate the areas that would be in the vicinity of this project of this property that would be um uh

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>> up for invasive removal. >> Correct. and serious >> management. >> It would be more under management. >> Once again, it's uncharted to a degree. >> Management is doing a lot of work for you know one word

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>> and it'll be a big effort. I don't know if you want to speak to >> if you don't mind. >> Um you don't have to I guess keep it short and sweet if you want or you can go into detail. It's up to you. And I

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know this is very preliminary and you're still working on a lot and but there's a lot of information in the five pages you gave us. >> Yeah, I appreciate you're recognizing it as preliminary. Uh but yeah, I mean when when we went and did uh the site visit

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with Ben Silverstone who's a restoration ecologist and um Abigail was there also and >> uh but sort of all of the areas I guess one thing I mentioned is A2, B2, B1. So

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everything except for A1 is kind of really a continuous swath. Um but he kind of identified different areas based on their condition and kind of roughed out the locations of those. and um he identified that A1 is really sort of has

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become a um a time-sensitive opportunity because of the tree removal that that made a difference because those um that area had been shade suppressed and so you got sort of a lot of little um it looked to me like sort of you know a mix

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of native and and exotic invasive plants there um where where Ben realized that now that that's been released from shade. Um everything's going to kind of bust out and the invasives are just going to make a whole mass of the thing.

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Um if we don't kind of push those back efficiently and um promote the native desirable plants there. Um nothing else has seen that kind of big change very recently. Um so I can talk more about the other areas but I don't know what

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would be helpful. So due to the removal of the canopy, which has increased the sunlight coming in, you're going to get a growth a growth spurt. That most likely is going to be your first area you're most likely going to want to attack. >> Yes. >> Yeah. The plan for this summer is to

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hold one of I mean I I mean I've been like, you know, looking over that area several times and um I think the plan would be for this summer to focus on A1. >> Yeah. and then hopefully be able to hit

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some of A2 with um kind of pushing back some of the the big invasives there. Um and then there's a really neat spot in B2 that could turn into a little like w semi-w wild blackberry patch >> um in a in a you know more aesthetic,

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you know, accessible way than it is now. Um and those are kind of probably the primary areas to hit this year just because we're limited capacity. Um and then just kind of do more over time. >> Do you have any what other areas have you done? Whatever

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What other areas have you done invasive removal on of of this magnitude or small or bigger whatever? Do you have any pictures of the work that you've done before and after so we can get a good sense? What's your crew size? What do

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you have for equipment? >> Yes. So um you being indigenous landscape initiative we are very new and this is our very first project so I have absolutely nothing to show you in terms of things that we've actually done. Um

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Ben is sort of guiding this process and he has done a lot of them. If it would be helpful for me to ask him for more detailed what where he's done things and pictures I can ask him. Um, and it sounds like that's a yes. I should ask

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him for what he's done. >> Well, what I'm saying is that you're taking on a rather monumental area that that's going to be quite a hard area to work. You know, pulling out invasives isn't I mean, >> I know how we do it at the farm.

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>> I'm interested to see how you do it at this A1 section to see how successful you're going to be with it. >> Yeah. I mean, they it's it's not trivial. They keep coming back. um >> relentless. >> A big part of what we're committed to as

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an organization, which I don't know how much this helps you, um is is sticking with it. Sort of continuing to work. You know, our one of the first things that I said to um uh the historical society and the and the Swan Greenways when I first

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started talking with them a while ago was we're not looking for an inout project. Um we're looking for a long-term commitment to the land um and to the community. So what kind of crew we have is um right now we've been arranging and sort of starting to have

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conversations about some of the details of our community program to um draw in some of the community. >> Yeah. So when Swanook Meadows has I'm sorry to interrupt when Swan Meadows has community days or cleanup days, right?

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You draw how many people? >> A rough guess. >> So, we typically get 40 >> people for our, you know, trail clean up days, things like that. >> That's a good >> We've been doing it. >> That's a good show. >> 2015 before the trail was built.

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>> Right. Right. Right. >> The days we're building the trail, we have a typical for >> 40. That's a >> Yeah. I mean that's like >> okay so >> that's take that into consideration

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sometimes harder. >> Oh yeah >> that's a true >> so >> I agree with >> but it it's also teaching the community methods to handle invasive management.

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>> Yeah what they see there they can bring home. Sorry. >> What they see and what they can remove is only going to go home with a somebody that volunteers clearing an invasion. They now can identify it. They now understand how to remove it, etc., etc.

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It is a process >> and that's that's a big part of I'm glad you're mentioning that because that's a big part of what we want to do also is also teach people, you know, our the the indigenous principle is when you benefit from something, you benefit it, right?

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return to something to it. And so to mention to people, you know, you're enjoying a walk on the rail trail, you're enjoying a space that you are, and now you can go and just yank something that maybe shouldn't be there. >> You know, it shouldn't be there, you know. You know, >> so one question I have is what and this

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is preliminary. I understand that. Um has it been discussed about proper disposal of the invasives? >> Um yes. So we are starting so in terms of what we teach um people at the event.

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We're kind of currently in conversations blocking out some of like what coins really ought to get made. Uh we haven't talked specifically about disposal, but that's one of the things that you know is on my list of things to talk to people about where the invasives that we're going to be pulling at this event

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are how we're going to dispose of those. Um, I recently sent an email saying to the to the historical society, a few historical society folks saying, you know, we really ought to kind of look at the land and figure out where these are going to go and how they're going to be disposed of. I mean, we could say we're going to put them in trash bags and

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throw them out, but that's not the way I'd prefer to go about it. So, there are areas to sort of ideally you kind of many of them you kind of leave it out to dry. Um because once it's very dry, it's not going to regenerate when it goes

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places. Um last year, >> are you sure? >> No. >> Um not at all. Like they're plants, right? They will grow from anything. >> Berries on it. Birds get into it. >> Exactly.

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>> Berries I would do my best to isolate off. I will not leave berries out because indeed they get they're they're a treat. Um, >> I've seen invasives buried for years, resurfaced, those areas get spread back >> and they're home. They're back again.

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>> I'll I'll mention >> you see the bamboo um >> came back. >> Yeah. >> I'll mention two >> we call it the crematorium. One is the idea last year and I think sometimes in the past the historical

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society um in the winter has held a an ice skating event with a little bonfire and I thought it would be nice to >> dry out those and then fuel the bonfire >> and then we can make s'mores. >> That's what I refer anytime. I mean you

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should talk to some of the old farmers in the agricultural world how they would deal with invasives or such. I >> they're particular is that they know how to attack and they know how to >> you know that's why I say the crematorium. I burn brush on a 365. >> Yes.

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>> And the only way you can do it. >> I was I was just talking was if you have people to recommend I was just talking with an old farmer the other day about handling these things and >> and the only thing you don't want to burn is poison ivy, >> right? Oh yes. >> So >> so we all got it, right? We understand that. We want to talk about poison ivy.

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But but the other thing I would mention part of inland's approach um going with the the our indigenous advisors is um that that and right rather than thinking of invasive species

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as bad and just you know we just remove them because they're bad. Um the idea is that they are also representations of the manifestations of the fact that the ecosystem is out of balance. Um and so >> what do you mean by the ecosystems are out of balance?

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>> Um there are other ways that it isn't being cared for or that is ecologically out of whack. Um so for example um there are people who are finding that when they knock back invasives

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um and then in this case the the learning that I was doing they knock back the invasives and then they restore fire um and once you restore fire to the land the invasives don't disappear but if you do it right they become they find

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what what my native colleagues would call a proper their proper role system. >> They're small, right? They're just sort of one of the vegetation, right? There are all sorts of non-native plants out there that we just kind of like, oh, you know, it's just kind of there >> and

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>> really what that means is it's smaller and it's controlled. >> It's not causing right invasive. >> It's in control. >> Right. Exactly. >> You're you're handling the monocultures that are out there, >> right? It doesn't become a monoculture. It doesn't it isn't allowed to become an

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olive culture because you've knocked it back because you know humans are part of the system right you have people's eye you know people's eyes on it and they're blocking things when they get out of hand you have fire on the system at whatever frequency is appropriate um different ways of kind of you have appropriate nutrient balances right

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things that will restore a healthy system can help invasives things that could become invasive not be as much of a problem then you're not just faced with like ah another one Right. Right. >> Part part of the activity it's not just

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removal of invasives. It's encouragement of some of the native. >> Exactly. >> And that is what this >> the the handout that everyone got >> does help describe. Now you um one of the the heading for project area A you

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also have seed collection. >> Yes. Um it also in the description um states one large remaining Norway maple should be cut down in order to prevent it from receding. >> Right. Cuz that is >> I know what the answer is to the question I'm going to ask. But do you

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mind explaining Norway maples to our commission and whoever's listening? >> Uh yes, but you may very well know better than I do. That's not my specialty area. But they're >> it's a strong invasive. they're not from here and they can become uh they they

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seed vigorously and they can take over. I mean that that document mentions one because he noticed sort of one big one. There are a couple of saplings there also >> that probably aren't that they're probably fresh. >> They're a number of years old but sorry.

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>> No, they they Norway maples also tend to kill anything underneath them. >> Right. Right. Because what are they? They they're taking all of the sunlight equal to the acidity they they're dropping into the soil. >> They'll alter they'll alter >> soil

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>> the system the soil around them again. >> What maple maple? >> Colobby. >> Oh, what? >> It's on this list. It's on the invasive. >> Hold on. Kobe Kobe is trying to explain

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something that is technical. >> I I think again as a happy where they exude substances that dissuade other plants from growing there. I don't think that's proven yet, but I it's certainly a combination shade.

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>> You learned it. I I learned it. Walnuts. Walnut trees. >> Walnuts do it. >> That's the >> shaker is doing. >> Ben was pointing out that also that with

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the release from shade that the other tree removals have had on that area. This remaining Norway mapel is going to just seat everywhere like crazy. >> Yeah. It's it's going to have a perfect, you know, canvas. So Frank, you know that you make sure we make note of that

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on >> what um what what kind of the next steps are for um deals and Roy on behalf of the whole pro project team is we'll be submitting and I need to figure out the best way to do this whether it's one

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notice of intent for the the project area or a couple of number a couple of notices that that cover all all the work zones. because it's it it's given me a popsicle head because we have towns and

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historic properties. We have the the rail trail. It's kind of a green green greenways properties, you know, kind of spread out along the area. So, and you have invasive management and also naturalized

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plantings which are triggered usually an abbreviated notice of intent but >> but I know you're trying to do it all in one. >> We're trying to do we ideally we would do do this as one filing. I think if um if in discussions with the product team

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we feel that we want we might want to come back you know if if we focus on A1 A2 and maybe B2 in the shorter term and then have another five filing for the rest of the area that might be my

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approach. I'm not 100% sure what what the the best I think one ultimately is the best way to do it because then I'm not managing orers um D file numbers for

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work cold is not managing a bunch of um file numbers in the area you know which work is being done under which which expires on what day. That that could just get far too complicated. So, um, what what will be coming from my office

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is an application to to to to the commission to cover the proposed program in this area for the stewardship and management. Um, as well as a couple of small improve improvements that the historic society

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wants to have at 72 main street. Um, >> how long can we have leave an NOI open? >> This is this isn't a shortterm project, you know. >> So, and and order conditions can be o open for three years, >> renewed three times, been renewed, I

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think renewed twice. Um, I know that a lot of um programs that like power company does in their fi filing, they immediately ask for that 2-year extension. So instead of having a three-year notice of intent, they end up

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with a fiveyear notice of intent at, you know, at at the meeting where it's approved. >> Is that do they do that just for the comfort zone, that extra buff of time? It's so in the case >> they do it. Yeah, they kind of >> three years you would

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>> theoretically and who knows if if we'll have more permit tolling because that that that can complicate things and extend orders but that you know if we're looking at a fiveyear that that that would give us a fiveyear plan to do this

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work >> meaning A1 A2 B2 and B1 >> well that's to be determined >> you know determined my I think My my preferred path um is is to file

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for all of this area, you know, >> 80 and 72. >> Everything, right? So 80 invasive management and then some stuff at 72. >> Correct. Right. >> Yes. 80 80 is separate. Um and I've got

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um I'm going to make a few adjustments to my my my plan to cover that that amended order. um uh to cover the removal of the the septic city system from that design, but um for the

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historical society completely separate and not not under this >> and then we're still going to need to do a filing for the tree planting also. >> Or does that work? >> No. So make sure it's covered.

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>> Yeah. So I'm I'm I'm going to make sure everything that's being proposed is covered in the order that this is going to be comprehendive for this work. >> All under one roof. >> All all under one roof. any any um invasive removal, any um planting and

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proposed plantings, any trees that in this assessment like like those Norway maples that we feel should come out, those would come out. Those would come out under that notice of intent and be permitted before they're cut down. >> You didn't mean Norway me.

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>> What a crazy thing. >> Yes, ma'am. Um >> just something I don't know if that was the right time to ask about this. >> Of course it is. I was, as we were saying a few minutes ago, um I would really like when we have a community event to be able to encourage

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the participants from the community to pull invasives, you know, where and when they encounter them on the is that something that needs to be noted or given permission for separately so that people go there by the by

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>> I don't think we need a permit to educate people. No. So they don't they don't feel like they're in they're not in violation going on a different day. >> I No, I understand. >> Oh, okay. >> I don't >> I think we

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>> if it's on at this property, they're covered obviously. I don't know. I know you Bill had in or you guys had talked about other areas of the rail trail for invasive removal which there's plenty of opportunity along the rail trail for

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>> but on this property they're they're covered. So like that, you know, we're supervising versus not supervising or something like that makes a difference. >> Um it's just a matter of the disposal which

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>> can be figured out. We we we would be submitting and you know as part part of this we would have a plan that that because that that's one of the boxes we we would need to check in this submission is yeah how how is the the

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invasive how are the invasives being removed and then how are they being handled once they're >> correct >> removed. So we we would need some procedures in the in the application document. >> Um what's I want to go around the table

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before we um wrap things up, but we can start with Mike. >> A great project obviously is going to require perseverance, >> you know, and u but if you look at the size of the area,

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it's it's not huge. A1 is not huge. I was involved in a removing um uh multiplose from an abandoned rhubarb field in conquered and it was just all

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covered and we persevered and eventually it's all gone and it's now in agriculture. So it can be done. You just have to you just have to persevere. >> So what did you do with the monkey floral on your >> I don't know what they did with it. Maybe they burned it. >> I've seen people say, "Oh, no, no. We'll bring it to Louis house.

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>> Guess who's cleaning invasives out at Louis house 3 years from now? Cuz it's >> Well, and that's that's why I brought it up. What What is the plan? >> You got to have a plan what you're going to do with it. Ship it, incinerate it, >> send it to >> Yeah. So if you have people doing

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on their own individually who have been trained so they know they've been part of the group I guess or they know what which plants that it's okay to to pull out. Yeah. They need a place to put it. Maybe it's just a temporary box or something to put it in. But that's an

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important part. Yeah. >> Abigail. >> Uh so uh again full disclosure I went with them. I'm interested in working personally volunteering with this group. Um, one plant I'd like to ask you about

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particularly because you guys are more experienced than me. Um, American black currant. Um, >> I'm going to assume >> what is it? >> American black currant. >> It is a native species here. However, it

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is actually illegal to plant because of old timber history or >> pine rust. >> I think it's pine rust. >> Pine rust. >> Well, we you had something. Yeah. So, what are you suggesting? >> Uh, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm

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wondering because we talked about seeding um plants. I figure this plant has to be excluded from that. >> Yeah. I don't think you can. I still don't think that's legal.

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>> Well, current gooseberries related. >> Yeah, currents and booberries. >> I'm usually pretty good with plants. I've lost on this one. So, >> what what is your point on what you want to do with it? How you want to remove it?

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>> Yeah. No, what to do with what to do. >> The the question we were excited to find a few. We're excited. So they were they were like the the effort was made you know century ago to eradicate these native >> that particular

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>> because they are host >> for a pathogen that kills um that can affect pine trees and when this was all pine logging you know timber on the old fields. Oh yeah, >> they they the the the timber lobby got

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it made illegal to to propagate and they got people to to try to just eradicate the black. >> So your biggest concern is going to be as to what we do with it. >> Yeah. >> When it's been removed >> burn. >> Do we have to remove it? Because it so

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it's a native plant but it's illegal to propagate in towns. >> The question is you don't have to remove it but you can't plant it. >> Okay. the I think one question we had. Sorry. >> Yeah. So it it's the early 1900s a lot of area around here produced packaging

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pine boxes. Um so there was a lot of >> barrels box in the I think that requires one life stage on pines and then one on currents. um their solution was to eradicate the native

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current plants and make it a label. >> And I think a question that we had, tell me if I'm the question that we had was if the project at some point wanted to look into propagating it. It's illegal town by town to propagate it. Like

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different towns in Massachusetts have different rules. So the question is who is in charge of those rules? Would we ask you for permission to >> We're getting into the weeds. That might be a select board question. >> We're not at that point. >> Oh, yeah. He'll defer to a tree warden

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and he'll defer to us. We'll just go in a circle. >> Mostly I'm just wondering if we have to remove it, but it sounds like we don't have to remove it, but we can't spread it. >> At least at least not without asking the question again at a later point in time >> without going to the town selected

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changing the law. Yeah, that's >> you know specific plant plantings will be covered under the the application. So we we'll we'll definitely be saying what what we're looking to what we're looking to plant, what we're looking to remove, what what we're looking to manage um

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that that will be covered in. >> So there'll be some verbiage in this how to deal with it, what we're going to do with it, blah blah blah. Yes. >> Okay. >> So it's doable. >> I I get it. Uh, James. >> Well, do you have anything else you want

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to add? >> No. >> I've already talked now. Jimmy, >> I have already talked now, too. I think >> Sandra, I almost felt Cindy for a second. >> Wouldn't be the first time someone said that, but um I don't have any questions.

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I enjoyed listening to discussion about the different invasive species and everything. It sounds like um it's a very very um interesting project. >> Brian, >> I'm good.

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>> We're not there yet, but maybe we'll bring his holy water that day. >> So, yeah, >> Mike. >> So, um it's great that Abigail went with you, but I'd like to go with you, too. >> So, jealous forward the email for everybody?

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>> Yes. I I sent it to um James and >> Col. And I think you forwarded it to everyone. >> Okay. I'll have to check. I don't know. I missed it. Somehow I don't want to miss him in the future because I I do this the kind of thing I love to get involved in.

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>> Mike is really good with his plant life and and his blueprints. >> And so as part of the application, um maybe we'll have a section on planned outreach and >> as part of the application. >> Yes. Yeah. And we're we're we have a meeting about that I think tomorrow is

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how we can do our I mean I'm I if you're like I'm happy to just take your email address and make sure that you know I send you things. We're we just fixed a date for the like community event. Um and I haven't emailed anybody about it yet, but we're saying we're thinking

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we're going to do that on the 30th of August. So, >> I don't I want to make sure we're careful um with how much outside involvement we have until we're here. >> Correct. >> Right.

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>> Um so, I I just want to exercise caution. I do actually have a question though. Can are you um going to pursue prescribed fire? >> Um >> it's a small area and that's why I ask.

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>> Yeah. Um over time, I mean over time we would like to do that. Um not for this year. >> Okay. >> Um but I mean that is part of what Inland wants to do as our work. Um and when Ben looked at the spot and we were talking about things like how to

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maintain good ecology over time, you know, that came up as a as a thing that would be beneficial. I I completely agree and I think it would um be great to talk or to to pursue. Um,

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you know, I know Massachusetts is doesn't do it as much as other states, but >> is this something we would need to put in the uh >> we would we would have a we would have a discussion of we we would need need to cover cover all the work we're looking

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to do unless we wanted to come back and amend the order after you know >> I think it should be included at so that this year next year four years Yeah, put it in. Everything that we want should be in this application. Put

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everything in it. >> You know, every every I sw >> can I just throw one more thing out that I I don't remember anybody talking about it, but >> we there's a lot of edible plant life

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out there that we as people just have no clue. I go to a lot of different farms and one specific one there's a lot of lay ocean in the east etc etc. Steve nudges me and he goes Jimmy everything that we pull out of the ground is a

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weed. Look over there have it in line. They're growing it and and it's like they have a completely different grasp on their nutrients, their foods, fibers and everything. But we look as a weed.

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No, no, no, no. Don't pull that out. Let that grow. Let's put some fertilizer on it. So, that's an important aspect that we should look at and identify. What are some of our in edibles in this whole big picture, too? >> Yes. So, that's that is also an

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important part of what we're talking about. I guess I mean I when you're saying to list everything is is gathering for food one of the things that we >> don't think you need for that. you're not >> you're not removing you're not you know

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cutting a tree you're not removing vegetation you're not >> but even that so yeah and but there's exemptions within the WPA within reason >> uh same with planting um >> I I think maybe you consider adding that

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as a um something to document but um This is a great start to where we need to go with this with everything that has that happened over the winter. And um

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yeah, I guess what are the next steps, Frank? >> Next steps um >> getting a get a order final with the division as soon as I um >> because I know that you you don't you don't want to lose your opportunity to

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start. >> You don't want to lose the season. So >> I would I would need to have something I think in front of commission second meeting in July which would >> even then you got I know you're

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>> I like I'm saying >> you're on vacation then I think >> yeah you're reading my emails Jim >> Yeah I know I do read my emails >> I had a picture attached that's why >> that's why I put it in red

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to be able to and you know the end of the summer. >> I know. >> Yeah. >> Um >> now you're going to want to do that down the historical society or >> Yes. >> I'm going to follow up with a timeline. I'll I'll dig in in that tomorrow and

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send an email out to our group and figure out what what I have to commit to to get something to to the commission so that we have we have summer. >> Now with that also we

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dig a little deeper within the WPA. You may be able to find some exemptions. >> We might be able to do some activities, >> do some activities, but you have to come in. You have to at least notify us about what's before it even gets done. >> Um,

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just so that we're aware and not it doesn't necessarily have to come in front of a meeting either. It could if it's an exception and it is explained clearly in an email. Um, it can be sent to Colby and I. >> Um, >> yeah. >> And then we just note it.

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>> I had the same thought. Yes. >> Sorry, Colby. >> Yep. >> Sorry. >> He's writing my other order, so what exactly for this work today? What exactly would we be doing? And would that possibly be something that we just run by James?

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Yeah, that >> that's I will research that. >> Yeah, that that's um >> nice to have one point of contact. >> Yeah, it' be nice to have one point of contact who says we're doing this so

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that you're not playing who's >> right. >> He said what she said. >> Correct. Yeah. So I I mean Frank really is Frank is Frank. Oh along with the um you know research and pulling the time timeline together I will I I will have

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both bullet points on what we can do that's kind of activities that don't require a permit. So so so things that we can do we don't have an activity that doesn't >> Yes. No need

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for everything we do. Frank I don't want to go in circles. >> Yeah. I don't even want to go home. >> That's a job. >> Yeah. So I I there there there are ways there are multiple ways ways forward. I think so

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>> as long as the commission is aware of the work >> that is the biggest thing. No surprises >> prior to anything being done. >> Yes. What do you mean no surprises? >> I don't want to surprise you. >> All right. So, um, Frank will get back

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to us with a timeline for his permit and more discussion. Um, and, um, he'll also come up with a game plan of what could be done short term so that this doesn't, um,

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yeah, that it doesn't go dormant, right? Quote. Uh, so, >> you know, we're moving forward. It This seems it from the outside, I'm sure this seems like a a weird really ridiculously long process, but there's

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so many different layers to this, especially with the invasive removal or invasive management um that it can take time to make sure it's um thought out and done properly.

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So, I appreciate everything the the document and the time you everyone spent doing this because this is it's a good thing for town. It's good thing for the environment, especially in that area. I remember growing up even going fishing down there and it was you could

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walk right down to the water and the whole that whole shoreline. >> It was much different. I mean, >> now you have this little area that's >> just a one little cut into it. I mean, it it it's changed a lot. A lot of these

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areas have changed over the since I was a kid, too. And you're a newcomer anyway. >> I used to enjoy the cleaning race that they used to have there. >> That's cuz you never >> So, any other questions, comments?

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>> I got a couple comments if you don't mind. I'm glad glad you realize that it's getting a little deep into the conversation. um without having a permit. You got to get that done. Get something >> so it can get advertised to the butters and not in a work session in the

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hearings. >> No, but there are exempt activities that can be done. >> I know, but this is all promated by the removal of those trees and tree stumps. So, >> but can still Okay, >> don't forget that

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>> correct. That's all. >> So, noted. Okay. Um, let's see. >> Easy. >> Yeah. Please get permission from all property owners, including the MBTA. Even just get it in writing.

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>> Greenways controls the property. Yeah, >> we we we will include the documents from Greenways that are authoriz you you ran over chemicals quickly. That's a

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something that should be it should be included >> just in case. >> Just in case >> just the basics like >> just in case. aquatic safe

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word and land is not up in doing that. >> I know they're not and but you don't just national heritage. Uh Mikey, you can actually speak on the behalf um of Swan

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Cookook Meadows and National Heritage. Um may um actually maybe you can't National Heritage as part of their management for invasives, they they

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require to be included in permits >> as what chemical applications for invasive >> just in case. >> Just in case. >> We just did it six years ago in town. >> Would things like vinegar need to be

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specially? >> We'll let Frank answer that. But you don't have to answer it now. No, just >> we'll be listing our methods and we'll be listing our anticipated you're required to use >> in the request for permission.

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>> Yes. >> Cover all your bases. >> Yes. The other thing is as far as having volunteers remove invasive material without direction, that can actually be written into the OC. Um, I've seen it done on from a

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trail maintenance where where trail crews are allowed to remove dead or fallen limbs or to snip back branches. So, there is a there is a way to write a site. >> You didn't like that using chemicals,

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did you? I I saw a quick reaction in your eyes and I agree. um you know but in certain instances we had a huge area of fragmitees and we had no other choice but to um use the glyphosine.

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>> Yeah. I don't >> so that's a great example. I don't want to go. >> I want to go home. >> And I know you don't I know that's like out of the question though for your group and I I appreciate that. >> But ultimately the order is going to be

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for historic and the greenways. So potentially there might be activities that they they want to do in parallel in the area like so it does need to be covered.

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>> Yeah. But we we can discuss that with our project team. >> I I did have something to add. I'm glad you glad you said no more uh please no no more s surprises or anything. I um like the cutting of the trees were

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originally to everyone. Um, I did have some input from the community, but >> nope. Public comment is not being taken at this time. >> Okay. How about how about something I have to say? >> I don't think that's a I I don't we

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can't if they have a comment, they they can submit it to me or Kohley. >> Okay. >> But you can't circumn the process. And the process is the chair has to be recognized right >> speaker or um so I'm just trying to

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follow the the rules that are given to us. So it would be >> your comment that's one thing. >> Yeah. >> You got to own that comment. >> Okay. Well, I'd like to own this one. >> Okay. >> Okay. It was okay. It was a surprise to

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me about the trees in the first place and I realized that some of them are rotted and everything. I can appreciate that. Um, I just feel that the process was not followed for the removal of the trees. I think we

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could probably all agree upon that, right? >> Well, I'm not agreeing upon anything. >> What you guys say? >> Okay. Um, I I that's the way I feel and I feel that what's to prevent something like that

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from happening again, whether it be the Towns and Historical Society or someone else if there are like no consequences other than the filing fee after the fact filing fee. >> Well, there's quite a substantial filing

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fee. I bet all said and done cuz there's a lot of square footage here. Um we do max it out and we do reserve the right to double it. Um but how do you prevent that? It um dil you have to be um observant as a you know as

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commissioners. >> Can I comment? >> Yes. Um I mean I think there's been way more than a biography. you've got this huge project going on that that in part, you know, came about because of this thing. So, this is this is going to be a

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yearslong project. This is not a >> which is no consequence. >> I think I think he's right. I think you've been years responding to this. >> Well, I I do appreciate what's going to be done. I do appreciate that. I think it's going to be a good thing, but I

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just the actual removal of the trees without a permit and the way it went down, it just didn't sit well with me. That's all I want to state. >> And and um that is some something that can be addressed and discussed in the commission

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once this is formally filed >> and once the hearing is open. >> That is definitely something that is a subject for discussion >> and it should be because this has turned into quite a process. >> Yes. And I I got to be honest with you in my brief sense of it all is like

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we've made much more of this than it's needed to be and we're going to spend a lot of money on this and I I'm just not going to get into this. No. What did you have anything else you wanted to add? >> No. Thank you for listening. I

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appreciate it. Well, it's, you know, it's a public meeting and it's recorded, so it will be, um, you know, noted in the minutes. So, >> Okay. Um, Brian, >> so don't take any action on this.

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>> So, in other words, it's continued. >> Nope. >> No, >> we're not. This isn't a hearing. Um, >> oh. So the next step is >> a hearing. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I see. I see. >> Filing. >> This is putting in perspective what was

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presented to me. >> This has essentially been a essentially extended pre-iling hearing. Pre pre-iling discussion. Yes. >> Essentially preiling. So Sandra, with different uh National

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Heritage, you you do a lot of pre-filing, consultation, and discussion. >> Oh, okay. >> Um and that's pretty much how we've approached this >> because it's recognized as yes, the trees are taken down, but there are

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other um environmental issues that will be handled at the same time like the invasive extensive invasive management, >> right? I think that's a fantastic thing. I really do. >> We have to to get to the filing, we kind

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of have to weed or um you know work our way through this sort of stuff. >> Okay. So, it's considered a pre-iling. >> It's a discussion. >> Discussion. >> You have to have a discussion to be able to understand put together what how

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we're going to put the paperwork all together. Especially in this situation. >> Especially Frank, one other thing. Did you put in anything about stump stump removal, stump grinding? >> Not yet. >> Okay. We need to be able >> to be included

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discussion of the intent with stumps would need to be included. Yes. >> And and that's something that >> treat. Yeah. >> Okay. I'm just mentioning it cuz I >> cuz I'll tell you this that close to the water on some of those you just going to have to leave them

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>> close to the water on what the stumps >> I'm only looking at before they want to do I don't want to have anything to do with water >> we'll be we'll be discussing the dispensation of >> that also means for the love of God don't grind any stumps even if it's

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outside the buffer until we have an order of conditions Yes. >> My recommendation. >> I can probably go down and get the stump grinder out of there. >> God, please. >> Understood. >> Thank you.

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>> You know who's going to hear about >> I got mine cut. you had a comment. >> I guess I wanted to make sure I understood. So, are we saying I don't the the timing on asking for permission to do um the things that we're talking

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about doing? Um does that mean that for this summer we should assume that we're only doing things that are exempt from a permit? >> Um yeah. Uh yeah, >> potentially. >> Yes. Yes. But I'll I'll be I'll be

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discussing I'll I'll bring I'll discuss it with the team tomorrow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So our next meeting is going to be what? July >> 8th or 24th. >> But but Frank be signed to prepare and then it has to get submitted and have

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you know we have 21 days >> to open a hearing. >> Calendar doesn't look good. Frank it does not look good. No. >> There goes that vacation. We'll be we'll be I'll be handling >> expediting it as best you could

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possibly. >> All right. >> Extensively, you'd probably be looking late summer or meteorological fall, you know, se after September. Um >> for permanent activities. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> But we'll try to navigate it so that something can be done. So obvious Yeah. I think we can get >> Can you give an examp what >> an example of a nonpermitted >> Frank's going to provide us with

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something >> or come up off off hand I can't because I'm going to have to I'm going to have to quote chapter and verse in the letter so I don't want to do that yet >> what >> thank you very much for your time tonight

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>> thanks lost cause. >> I know I know everyone's itching to go and we're itching to get this off off of our >> um the more you put in plan better. >> Exactly. We're heading in the right

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direction. >> Yeah. No, make Yeah. No, I'm not going to go in circles. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um >> we like your enthusiasm though. She didn't like your enthusiasm. I

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haven't been enthusiast to go attack someone who been paid since I got >> uh 3.2 volunteer response form from um Abigail Farley reappoint. Um Kobe, what is the ending date of this

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um of your reappoint or Abigail? What's the ending ending date? >> Nope. Uh sorry. the the one she is >> she's just finishing out her first. So your term ends what? Next >> 230, >> right? But what's the next what's the

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term she's applying for? >> Three years. >> Three. >> So it' be 29. >> Okay. Is she taking it? So 6:30 29. I motion to um recommend reappoint of Abigail Farley for for a term ending

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6:30 29. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Thanks. >> Discussion >> roll call vote starting with Mike. >> Mike. Yes. >> Uh same. >> You don't have you can. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes.

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>> James T. Yes. >> Sandra Lord. Yes. >> Brian. Yes. >> Okay. >> Who seconded? Sorry. >> Mike. Thank you. F >> fast Mike. Got it. Is that it? Are we holding

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We do 4.2 2 541 strong. >> Of course, the pen had to run out of ink and >> that's fine. It's all right. >> Um I make I'll do this. I'll make a motion to

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um table 3.3 to our meeting on >> Can I make it? Can I make it wicked quick? >> Yes. >> I'm printing it out right now. Um, so trail maintenance SOP. Uh, the best I

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found is Weston's they put in actual OC for it, NOI OC. Um, and that was in 2009 that listed out guidelines for how uh trail groups a

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trail association that's in their town can go about doing work on the on their trails. Um, so print it out, take a look at it, line stuff out, get crayons out, you know, add stuff in. Um, it's not,

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you know, it has to be tailored a little bit to town. So, I think this is doesn't have I don't think it has to be an OC. Um, we just have to adopt it. Um, >> we're just looking for standard operating procedures though. So that's

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what >> and that's what this is essentially. >> So are you looking for us to vote on this? >> No. >> Okay. >> And give me give back with some ideas and thoughts, please. >> So he's just going to handle Can I make

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a motion to take the list for next >> to Yeah. >> the next meeting. All right. >> I second that. >> I roll call vote starting the mic. What's that? >> To table.

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Yes. >> Abigail Farway. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> James. Yes. >> Sand Lord. Yes. >> Yes. >> Is that a journ? >> What is that? >> No. >> This

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formal covered. >> What is the next? >> You did, but then we had to read it and I asked we had if you wanted to vote on it and I said, "No, we >> just go over it." >> No, take it home and read it. That's >> right. And then we'll vote on it next meeting. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> We're good. We're good.

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>> That's what he said. >> Are we struggling >> here right now? >> Yes. >> We are struggling every meeting at 9:00. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, let's get >> Oh, can I have a copy of the plan, please? >> Figure out a better way to get documents.

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>> We need a copy of >> that plan to be a struggle. >> The plan that's Thank you. >> What if I wanted >> what I said? What if I wanted those?

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>> Are your friends sharp? >> Was there going to be something we were signing tonight? >> Oh, >> I didn't get it done except uh Yeah. the go for the >> Yeah. No, it is it is what

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>> I can accepted practice putting it all together at the beginning meeting and have a sign at the end. >> I don't mind that. Can we get it done that way? We don't have to come in. We'll come in tomorrow. >> He's trying his best. like

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>> get it done for tomorrow. >> No, it's it's really not good to do it like that. >> All right. Uh 4.1 Nashville River Wershed Report Card. Um well, it's safe to swim.

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>> A or B minus? Oh, >> I don't know. But if you look at it, Townsson's uh this is E. coli, right? >> Correct. Right. >> Yeah, it's high. >> We got Damon Pawn closed, >> but safe. >> No, that's not what we're talking about right now.

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>> I know. >> Um it's safe, but it's high. Last year, Natural River Wershed was able to identify a potential failed >> systemic system >> upstream. Yeah.

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>> Do you know if they've done anything? >> Don't know. >> Okay. >> I assume that would been met for review. >> So, did they receive a copy of this? >> Yes, they received a copy.

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>> So, I can send them a note. Say, "What's the plan?" >> Okay. >> Jumped up there. >> Jumped. >> Yeah. And then you got Okay. So, yeah. Then you look at Westboro Bridge. It dropped.

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>> So, it's data. Um, and we'll receive these throughout the summer. >> Right. >> So, moving on. Um, the statistics down. figure that would

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be a deep brok. See road. Um >> what? >> Right. >> Huh? >> Said the 4.2. >> 4.2. Sorry. >> That's the one you added, right? >> Yeah. Okay.

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Pass it along. I'm going to grab one. >> Sorry. Here you go. >> And then Abigail, I'm going to ask you to read it just so that it's read. >> Okay. >> Um interruptor. Um this is regarding the

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new sub or not subdivision, but three house lots at the end of Sever Road. >> Right. Um, so Abigail's going to read this into record and we don't really need to spend too much time on in my opinion, but

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>> let's read it first. >> So, should I begin? >> Yes, please. >> Uh, should I read the full name here? Okay. >> Yes, please. >> Sorry. >> No, it's >> uh John Melo Jr. 396

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Andover Street, LOL MA 01852. Uh Wayne Bellic. >> Uh Land Design Collaborative 45 Windman Street, Sweet One Westboro, MA 01581.

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Dear Mr. Melo and Mr. Be Bel, sorry. It has come to the attention of the towns and conservation commission that a butter notification was not provided for the hearing associated with

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order of condition DP file number 308-0729 for the property located at zero server road towns and ma01469 >> sver >> sver Sorry,

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>> sorry, I butcher these all the time. So, >> as a result, all work authorized under this permit must pause immediately pending further action by the commission to comply with the requirements of state law. The commission requests all work

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related to the permit be stopped. Notify all butters of a new public hearing date July 8th, 2026. Uh re Republic

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>> republish sorry republish the required legal notice and reopen the public hearings. The towns and conservation commission recognizes that the situation is a significant delay to all parties involved. However, these steps are

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necessary to ensure compliance with applicable legal and regulatory requirements. The latest date for which the legal notice may be advertised for the July 8th meeting is July 1st, 2026.

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Thank you for your patience and attention to this matter. Kobe Steer is that >> uh conservation a agent lands use office. Huh? >> You're good there.

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So, um, we have to reopen this and voters need to need to be notified. Uh, you sent this today, correct? >> Um, you sent the certified and email. >> I did priority mail. I think certified

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mail tomorrow >> and then also email. >> Okay. >> They responded. >> No response yet. So in other words, at that last conservation meeting we had the >> when we discussed this

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>> with the meeting with Wayne on SA road, we did not have verification from the abutters of notification, >> right? >> Cuz I had gone to the planning board meeting with the people that were there and all of them had said straight up

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none of us were notified from conservation of the meeting. know about us were notified and I remember mentioning that to you >> and that's where we landed. >> Yeah. >> Well, this is where we landed. >> Where did we >> Yeah, I I can explain how it happened,

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but I'm not looking for >> No, no, no. All I know is I remember hearing it from the planning board meeting and I just like to understand >> Can we make sure we can double check so we don't run into that again? >> Yeah. Yeah. I uh read so we received a

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certificate of mailing at the time from the >> digital >> for the permit um that he submit uh the LDC the land bell's organization that he submitted for the project. >> Yep. >> Unfortunately, it only had the u mailing

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to the department of conservation on it. It did have the butters on it. So, it was error. Um, >> it happens. >> Yeah, I probably take that one on the shoulders. Is that a good term?

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>> Only reason why I remember Cole cuz I remember they all spoke up in the planning board meeting and I >> they should have stood out more um too. Um, but

441
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ran through this is the >> Would it be better back to the green? This is the pile of work that paperwork that came with it and it's just a really bad oversight. >> It was a pretty expensive. >> Well, Jimmy says >> certainly learned a lesson.

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>> Would it be better for us to go back to the green cards? >> I don't know if that's an option. >> Is that the green card? You know the green cards? >> I do. Yeah. I don't think so because then I have to actually check each individual one. But the certificate of

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mailing, >> it puts it all together and with all of them >> because it's a pain to look at the green card, check off the name on the list, look at the next green card, check that off. >> Well, and it was just >> let's leave it in your >> It got missed and it was, you know, and

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I'm not passing the bucket. uh it is the applicant's responsibility but they understood the uh bylaw um so >> I don't know how that's possible because it's not just the bylaw WPA >> yeah if you go to the D's website it's

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clear that it's the applicant's responsibility well I can show you take a look at because maybe it should be rewritten >> well rewriting a bylaw takes a lot more effort than a

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But what so what does our bylaw state if you don't know off hand I don't know if I really want to go into the but >> it does so I would say it might be up for debate whose responsibility it is whether it's the conservation

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commission's whether it says it you know depending on how you if it says it's the concom's responsibility to notify me about us or the applicants now I I I know the answer is the applicant. But it's just the wording is awkward.

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>> So he feels all way. All right. >> But I I understand his >> How are they going to get the digital readout? How are they going to get green cards? >> Everything gets mailed. All the correspondence gets sent to you though, right? >> The the green cards. >> Yes.

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>> Done correctly. Yes. >> How does it roll over to the applicant then? How does it go? >> They receive the confirmation and then they forward it to to us. >> Hold on. I'm pulling up the bylaw and I

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will There's going to be meetings like this even worse. Don't worry, it's all good. >> What? >> There's always meetings like this that go a little longer than they should, right? >> Oh, yeah. That's just our life. Well, so far I haven't been to a meeting

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that hasn't been 9:30. >> Um, >> there was a time back in the day. >> There was a time >> many I got it right here. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> So, it's under chapter 138-2 hearing.

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Uh, the C conference the conservation commission shall hold a public hearing on the proposed activity within 21 days of the receipt of said notice. Notice of the time and place of said hearing shall be given by the conservation commission at the expense

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of the applicant not less than 5 days prior to such hearing by publication in the newspaper or of general circulation in town and by delivery or mailing of notice thereof to the applicant to the board of health board of selectment and

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the planning board to a butter land as determined by the most recent assessor's records. on which the proposed activity is to take place into such other persons as the conservation commission may determine. >> I agree.

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>> It is ambiguous, isn't it? >> And that's, >> isn't it, Mike? >> I'm not leaving this. It's on them. >> It is. It's >> like we can't >> Well, historically, it's always been on them, right? Well, it's amazing that the

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DP has much clearer language >> than what our than that was our bylaw in verbiage. >> Yeah, but if you only read this, I can see how you would >> say that it's the applicant. >> Say that. But he's a smart guy. He's done he's

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been in the business a long time. >> Oh, yeah. But >> I'm not But he >> Oh, yeah. >> You know, I'm not like I said, I'm not trying to blame blame Americans. Absolutely. This should have been caught by me. So >> So we're going to leave it at and we blame you.

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>> You can blame me. >> What do you want to do? Wayne and Kobe and Jimmy. >> Blame me. We want Wayne to >> Mikey. Do you want a little cut you want to do? >> We want Wayne to agree to just reopen.

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>> I got the permit already. >> No, it's my fault. >> I don't know if he can make it. You had a conversation with D about this. >> Yeah, I know. But I mean, it's What's that saying about catching a bee honey

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or or Well, it's better just to have relation. >> You just you just did it, James, right there. >> He understood me. I bet. But >> I did >> both or something. >> The crazy part is I think we all understood it. >> Yeah. Go ahead.

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>> Yeah. Sorry. So, what do you want? >> Don't be sorry, Colobby. Like, >> what do we want to catch it with? >> Well, he's drawn to honey. >> You said beep. >> Let's read it into record. >> Abigail's got

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>> um we move on to 5.1. Uh D has been gracious enough to offer training on >> um July 29th, 2026 either 5:30 or 6:00. We can go around the table. >> Is it is it

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>> we'll be here. >> Circuit writer is going to be here from D. >> We can >> we can post it as a meeting. So it protects us. We just can't deliberate or >> is that a 29? >> What? >> July 29th.

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>> Yes. >> What time? >> What time? >> She said 5:30 or 6. She was looking for an answer there. >> Can we do it? >> Can we do it at the Townson House >> question?

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It's not a bad idea because I know Bobby will give us a little back room, little conference area and we can get food by >> just screaming open meeting. >> All right. So, we have a timer. >> So, 5:30 or 6? 5:30. >> Yeah. 5:30.

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>> 5:30, I guess. >> Either one. >> 5:30. >> 5:30. >> Yep. >> How far does she have to driveway? She comes to Boston. >> I know. Yeah. Um, okay. So 5:30 >> 5:30 29 >> 5:30 29

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>> you will I think meeting room 2. >> Sure. and we can post it at a public meeting and just um >> maybe ask the clerk's advice >> meeting would training really be

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>> like like a public meeting like >> well no we are that is an exempt >> practice >> um I don't want the activity but it is it is something that is allowable under open meeting law as long as we don't

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deliberate or discuss other matters. >> Okay. >> Um it's just in the name of transparency. So we don't have to thoughts. Can you talk about it quick? >> U it's only 9:24. We got

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>> So yes, it can be. So yes, it could be in the meeting or no, it can't be in the meeting. Is that our choice? >> Yeah. >> Well, I say the less interruptions the better. Well, we can also put no no public comment. I Well, they and people have to be recognized by the chair in

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order to speak also. I know it's just crazy. >> Maybe set up as a meeting just to cover our bases. >> Mike, >> he wants too. Okay, he's >> I am e I I kind of down the middle of

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the road here. Um, >> it's training. I think they should be bogged down with meeting stuff honestly. >> True. We also do meeting minutes >> and then we have to follow all the blah blah blah blah instead of actually learning. >> Well, now that I understand what the question is. Yeah.

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>> But in agreement, you're the one that >> Well, I I think it'd be closed is better in this case. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. I do. >> Yeah. Colby, don't we won't post it, but it is post it. Got it. >> You can ask here and if we should do

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anything formal about it, but >> Mhm. >> It's informal education. >> No, it's formal education. >> Technically, it's formal. So >> So we have to dress up. >> Get away.

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>> That's reasonable though. That's reasonable. Oh, I was going to say down. Um, >> all right. Moving forward. >> Items for discussion at next meeting. >> Uh, can this tentatively continuation of notice

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of intend for D number 308-0730 TWWB 2026-006 Bline Road, Cessor M 38, parcel 14, lot one, applicant Kevin Smith. Proposed project is for the installation of a septic system associated grading within

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river phone area an amendment of filing to include rebuilding cabin access road creating of hayfield and pond. Um we also have trail um building and maintenance SOP

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and then we will need to vote for officers again um because Abigail is going to be reappointed and now that we have a full commission we need to do it. So >> we have to do this

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>> hopefully once we won. >> All right. So we at the 7 >> shuffle things around again. >> 7.0. Are we close? >> Oh, wait, wait, wait. So 6.1 is to continue to next meeting. I just want to be clear. >> Possible. >> Okay. The next meeting. Can I propose

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something? >> Where? Go ahead. >> Okay. >> Um Okay. I went to the planning board meeting when they read our comments. >> Yes. >> I went as a resident. >> Okay. >> Um because I was just interested to see what they're going to say. um the con well I I can't discuss it I guess but so

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so we could put it on our >> okay >> you know the next meeting the decision and how it applies to other things >> did they okay so the decision from the planning board >> right and how how that affects us going forward for others >> okay

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>> I'm confused >> no I am too but it's not a >> you understand where I also understand what where I understand. I think I understand this. Colby, did you follow along any of the

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planning board stuff? >> No, I just got a a quick synopsis from the next day. I don't >> So, was that a >> Was this this Monday? >> Hold on. Yes, it was. But So, was that a um correspondence that we should have

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>> Nope. Um I don't They're not required to let you know what the outcome is. They took your You're required to make comments. >> You took comments. you submitted them. They can do what they want with your comments >> because >> unfortunately

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>> it is common court proceeds for the planning board. Yeah, nothing. But it is it isn't it isn't there's no convers there's no no rules that say that there has to yeah it's a courtesy thing

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>> I wish there was more >> just like when we CC certain things out >> so >> I would like to say more but I don't know if I'm allowed to now >> no so I think you said it right but I don't know if it's enough for Kobe to put on the agenda so if you want to

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explain a little bit more >> at least the background. >> I'll try and give a stab stab at it. Um, okay. So, I went there and the comments were read and I don't think it was accurate what was said with regards to that decision. I I

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think there were some inaccuracies by the engineer and the planning board and I would like to discuss it and the way it went down the decision and how it will affect other siblingless situations. >> Now I'm even more confused just the way you

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>> That was that was a goal. >> But I wanted to confuse you but >> No, but I I don't I can't say much without it being on the agenda, right? My hands tied right now. I mean, can I actually come out and say stuff? I mean, >> what was the Okay, so what was the

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decision >> to to remove the conservation restriction? >> Okay. >> Requirement. Yeah. >> Requirement. And I have concerns about different things that went on in the meeting regarding that and and how the decision >> so that that needs to be brought up to

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planning board. I know that >> but yes and no. But the thing is how it's going to affect similar situations going forward on our FBI. >> Yes, I'm acknowledging that. >> Okay. I'm but I also need to acknowledge

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the jurisdiction we hold as Hong Kong and we're just kind of stuck being the stuck with being the holder of it >> cuz my response to all this is why bother anybody go to conservation but anyways

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>> well that's the thing they don't have to come in >> no I understand that about >> um >> that's kind of why I wanted to discuss it next time because I don't know I mean I could go into it all now, but I'm just it's not it's not on the agenda. So, I feel

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>> No, no, we can't go into it. I'm just trying to think of how we can put it on the agenda and if we can have a constructive conversation about it, >> right, >> and have a tangible outcome that would affect >> what >> other decisions on our part other >> I don't know how we can do that.

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>> Yeah. You discuss the validity of the bylaw itself and whether or not >> But it's a planning board bylaw. It's not a conservation bylaw. >> I mean, >> but it kind of intertwines like they wanted, >> but it's not our bylaw. We don't get the

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data saying we just get we get the short end of the stick here. >> We get to comment on it and then they get to decide. >> I mean, is this something we should invite the planning board, too? I mean, I I don't know. I just don't don't know what to say, how to go about anything here. I just know that I think it needs

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to be discussed. >> I should have made it to the meeting. I'm sure I >> What do you think? I'm not trying to dismiss this either. >> You can invite them for a joint meeting >> because it is going to affect things. I

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feel and like I said, I can't go into it because it's not we're not supposed to talk about something and it's like killing me because I'd like to make sure we stay in line. We we keep our stuff our our discussions within our jurisdiction, >> right? I agree with that too. So >> we're technically not within our

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jurisdiction. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. So >> but it is but it's it's just we're the ones that get, >> you know, be responsible for it at the end of the day. So >> but I do feel it's important.

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>> I think we should I >> maybe like to see get >> maybe you should >> when is the YouTube video going up? We actually didn't we could get our hands on it. >> Okay. >> Um I wish I had an answer for you. I don't

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know how to >> because I was getting very frustrated there and I'm like I wish someone else I wish you were there or someone else. I'm like I felt out of my depth, you know. I really did. >> I was supposed to go to the meeting literally. I should have gone. I >> So couldn't whatever. But

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>> what I I would >> I know I I kind of understand where she's coming from with this. >> Send a letter as a private resident >> um with your concerns and and request that

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it's read into record at their next meeting >> about what I agreed or disagreed with or >> Yeah. Okay. >> No concerns, questions. >> Concerns, questions. Okay. legit >> as you said, you were there as a private resident, so use that voice.

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>> Okay. >> Um and and you know, you could keep it short and sweet, but just request that it's read into record. >> Okay. >> So, >> I don't know if it will go anywhere, but we have to I just I'm trying to make

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sure we're careful, but also offer guidance to what you're trying to >> understand and accomplish and your concerns because you're concerned. Everyone at this table had that concern. Um,

506
02:25:42.319 --> 02:25:58.000
>> when was this meeting, right? >> Last Monday or this past Monday. >> This Monday. Was this Monday? >> Two days ago. >> I bet you if you looked it up >> on the real deal YouTube, >> it's probably posted on there.

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>> Yeah. On the podcast. Yeah. Or could he just funny up? >> He might. I don't know if he sits and he sits somebody in the room. >> I might do that tomorrow.

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>> So if say like Jimmy, you watch it, right? Maybe you could come up with an adequate like way of putting it on the agenda. >> He can always things. >> No, you don't. >> I don't know how to >> No, but I'm saying maybe you could come up with how something that would be

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>> placeable on the agenda. I don't I don't know. I mean, >> I don't know how we can put it on our agenda without >> I don't think >> No, >> I don't think >> but I I I I would encourage you to send a letter on your behalf >> and delve into it. >> Okay. Because I I I I tried to talk, but

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>> And did this this is the one that pertained to zero Brookline Road? >> No, no, no. Uh no, no. Deepo Street. >> Yeah. So you you had a comment and you weren't recognized by I >> I was recognized but I >> question a question you were recognized

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for a question I assume. >> Right. I was trying to make a personal comment as a resident because I I think I said something about I'd like to be um I'm I'm a resident. I'm I'm on the conservation commission but I'm not here representing the conservation commission. I clarified that at the

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beginning. I do believe >> but you can state that you're out from conservation and this pertains to something I have questions of. >> Well, as a as a res knowledge of >> you had something

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you started to Oh, >> okay. >> Yeah, I do have some concerns. So, yeah, I will I could put that in writing. Um >> I I don't Yeah, I I wish I could >> you if someone could figure out a way to

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do to get it on their agenda without us >> if everyone watches it and want someone can >> I I don't think the conservation restriction is that big of a deal on that. Do you hear >> we're not discussing this? We're not discussing that. >> It's not on the agenda. >> It's not on the agenda, >> right?

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>> That's my suggestion. >> Okay. We Good enough. >> Okay. >> Our next meeting is July 8th. >> Okay. It's a wrap. >> Um, no. No. We got two more. Is there any

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>> Is there anything else? Anything else? >> Making a motion to adjurnn. >> Uh, >> okay. >> 9:35. >> Second. Roll >> call vote starting with Mike. >> I said yes. >> Abigail Farley. Yes. >> Yes.

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>> Are you sure? >> Jimmy. Yes. Well, >> sure. I don't want to be here till 10. >> Your turn. >> Sandra Lord. Yes. >> Yes. Thank you.