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Video-Count: 2
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=hyTujdGYTEA
Video-2: youtube.com/watch?v=dR1pQtouSNA

Part: 1

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--------- I'd like to call to order the conservation commission meeting for Monday, August 3rd, 2026 at 5:05 p.m. Um, can I have a roll call vote starting without

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>> here? James Gates present. James um Mike, do you mind leading us in the pledge of please? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation

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under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> This meeting is being recorded. Is anyone else recording? Um there are no additions and or deletions. There's no chair report

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[clears throat] um or meeting minutes pro uh approval and no agent agenda. We're going to move on to 2.1 Main Street Towns and Historic Society request to amend order of conditions [clears throat] D number 308-0705

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TWWB 2023-161 approximately 5:15 p.m. Highway 6 do approximate uh request to allow amendment of original order of conditions [clears throat]

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uh to EP number 308-0705. Um I am going to abstain and step out until after this is discussed. Thank you. Okay. Uh so we're here whether uh to decide whether or not we're going to accept the

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amended order conditions. And um uh let me just say this that being a relatively new and being involved thrown into a unique or unusual

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situation. Um, I would say that um I should have um uh listened to the council of uh Jimmy when he suggested that we um accept the uh the amended order. And um I think

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that I got hung up on the fact that uh there were the the supports for the uh lamps, the lights were not anywhere close to where they are in the uh amended order of

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conditions. And I I felt that there were people in the room that were not aware of that. And I thought that was an important piece of information. Uh, as it turns out, I think it is ultimately going to be important, but that wasn't the right time to uh consider that. So,

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uh I'm um prepared to make um a motion that we uh allow the amended order of conditions for DP number 308-0705 D WB number 2023-161. Is there a second?

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>> Second. Okay. discussion. >> I I'm the one thing I'm still a little confused about, so apologies for that, is it? It seems like they went the town in the circle society went much further

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out of the original order than >> right. But I think that's the discussion that we have the next meeting. Okay. It's my understanding that this the society uh towns and historical society

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uh will put a notice in the paper will notify a butters and do all of that work that um they need to do for the next meeting. But that's the discussion for the meeting. We either accept it or not and I suggest that we accept it and uh

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move on from there. >> Are are you comfortable? Do you understand what I basically explained? And we realize we have some issues ahead of us, >> but the best time is to go over at our next meeting, iron these things out, get

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a resolution, and keep moving forward. >> Yes. Comments? >> No, I have any. I understand. >> Okay. So, can we have a roll? >> Are are you um open to questions from

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the public in attendance? Um that depends on the question. >> Well, I I don't see any plans on the table. Um so the it's not clear to me because I've just walked into this our first night what the scope of the

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changes are. Um I did I went through some old agendas. I saw a mention at one point of relocation of the septic system. Is that in scope of this amendment? >> Be more specific to the question. Is the

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septic system going to be on the side where the church or is it going across the street? Is that where the question is? >> My my question is there's there's some there's some information on agendas and at one point it was in there that the

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location of the septicate system it was being proposed to move that. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Am I read that right? Okay. >> Yes. >> In the lead field just just the lead. Is that relocation being included in this scope of what's being amended?

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>> Yes. >> Because that that doesn't even change. >> Correct. The line has already been established across room 19 for the septic system to be relocated and directly across the street. I mean, normally we would we would take a big

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change like that as an amendment if it was less disturbance versus more >> much >> which I you know I >> much less >> not looking at plans. No idea what I'm talking about. >> Right. Right. But >> so the process of that being relocated across the street is already commenced

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with the line already being punched out from where the subject line will be right under >> but work has already started under the original order conditions. line has been established >> right >> to go across the street. So that is moving forward in that direction as it

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stands. >> And my understanding is that the moving septic system is less disturbance. >> It's being taken further away from the Squank River. >> Thank you. Thank you for um because when I read that I was like, "Wow, moving up

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is >> Yeah, it is a less disturbance." >> Interesting. the the leechfield has moved completely out of the flood zone. So we eliminate that risk factor completely. >> So it's like taking the major problem or the issue and >> potential

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>> just >> interesting >> getting it out of the flood plan. >> It is nice when things come down that are improvement >> and sometimes that happens when you start working you get involved. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> So, is am I also hearing that there's still another application coming for other work? This the scope of the work that's being amended is not the full scope of everything that's changed. Original filing. >> I don't know about that. I just know about this particular one. And that's

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>> I thought I thought I heard Mr. Ryan say there was more to come. >> More what was more to come. I thought you said there was more to come after the amended order. >> More to come in terms of the discussions, >> right?

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>> And and yeah, >> where we're going with it. >> Okay. >> That was basically to surprise Abigail as to what her curiosity. We're not discussing what comes. >> No. >> No. Uh next meeting.

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>> Our next meeting. That's when when the meat and potatoes of the discussion come forward as to what we're going to do and how we want everything to be done >> and and questions like that are relevant for the next meeting.

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>> So right now you're voting on the mechanism to address >> whether or not we see it as um a a minor change or major enough change so that we would require a new NOI. You're making right the new NOI versus amending the

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order decision tonight. But what that amended order is going to look like >> as it >> that's why there's no plans on >> that's why we're going to work on what we're going to work on next week if >> that makes sense. >> Okay. >> I probably will explain it like that.

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Mike did a better job I guess. >> No, I like your meat and potatoes. I like that one. I'm going to use it. All right. Uh any other comments? Okay. Can we take a a roll call starting with Jimmy?

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>> Uh James Dwin, yes. >> I Farley, yes. >> Brian Pigton, yes. >> Mike P said, yes. >> Uh so guess that that >> um correspondence will go right down. Um

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next meeting 8:12 and um a >> Okay. What's our next meeting? Have James come back because I have >> Oh, a question that is going to be on the >> wake up. >> We kind of like to leave him in the

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hall. >> He's going to get excuse me. >> I got carried away with my authority. >> Well, you were doing something good in our role, you know. and problem comes on >> you have space on your agenda Mr. Chair

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>> to discuss the vacancy if you still have one. >> Um, we still have >> You still have a vacancy? >> We do. Um, it's not on the agenda. I don't want to get in trouble. >> Oh, it's not on the agenda. >> No, >> I'm sorry. >> But we would love if you're interested.

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Um, we can talk about it or you fill out the volunteer. >> I did, but I haven't turned it in because I just When do you guys meet? Because I had the hardest time sorting this out. second, second, and fourth Wednesday of the month. >> 7 p.m.

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>> general schedules. >> That's almost always the case. Uh >> Monday, >> right? No, I know. >> That's fine. >> Oh, I know. Um we're trying to uh fix things. Uh >> but uh yeah. No, it's it's always unless

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if there's some like crazy reason not to that we don't. >> Right. >> I know. But uh so if >> second the seven >> y >> and you're no stranger to the

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constitution how many you had served on the commission how many years ago >> you're going to want me to remember how many years it was >> no get in trouble for talking about stuff that isn't on the agenda. >> So if you're interested in turning in your form if I can put it on the agenda >> be on the not agenda

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>> Wednesday. So, it'll be Wednesday the >> 12th. >> 12th. That's what it needs to know. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> So, the meeting starts at 7. >> Uh, I got to look to see what else there is, but I don't think it's too heavy. >> Okay.

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>> No. Um, >> yeah. >> How many years was >> two? >> Um, just one opening. >> All right. Next meeting is August 12th, uh, 2026. And um is there a motion to adjurnn 517?

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>> By a motion to during the meeting at approximately what time is it? >> 517. >> 517. Second. >> Roll call votes. Abigail. >> Abigail Farley. Yes. >> 25. Yes. Gates. Yes. J. Yes.

Part: 2

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committee meeting to order at 7:01 p.m. Um, could I have a roll call vote? Sorry, a roll call attendance.

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>> Emily Fine, remote. >> Selena Thomas, remote. >> Present. >> Mike, present. >> All right, Selena. I just have to go get my glasses out of the car real quick. I'll be right back. You guys can

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>> Okay. Um, the meeting is being recorded. It will be uploaded to YouTube. Is anybody else recording the meeting? All right. Does anybody on the committee have any

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topics that were not added to the agenda 48 hours in advance? Okay. So then the next thing is to uh I think it's this one is to review the

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meeting minutes and of course that's the agenda. Um, did everybody have a chance to look at the minutes offline? >> Yes, >> I did as well.

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>> Emily, did you Oh, yeah. Of course you did. >> Never mind. [laughter] >> All right, then. In that case, I think um I would like to take a motion to approve the minutes.

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Did you just make the motion or you're asking for one? >> No, I'm asking for a motion. >> I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes of July 9th of the Conservation Restriction Committee. >> Can I have a second? >> Minutes. >> Second. [laughter] Yep. You

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>> got a second? >> I second. >> All right. >> Who seconded? Valerie Goodrich. Oh, okay. All right. And a roll call vote. >> Starting with remote. >> Yep.

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>> Emily Fine, yes. >> Selena Thomas, yes. >> Yes. >> Mike P. Yes. >> Okay. So the next thing on our agenda is a

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presentation by inland the indigenous landscape initiative on indigenous land stewardship practices and this is in regards to our habitat management plan >> and can I I'd like to introduce

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>> please do. Okay. So, um I was contacted by Marissa at National River Watershed Association a few weeks ago about um Schlomia Lightfoot who started the

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Indigenous Landscape Initiative. Um and I'm I'm just going to read from her card. Um, I guess the saying or or the the goal of the the group is caring for

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the land together. And um in land works with communities to bring inland is is the the group within this indigenous landscape initiative.

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And um this group works with communities to bring indigenous stewardship practices back to the land in the northeast for ecological health, food for people, learning, relationships with

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the land and each other. And um so um several days ago um Sher um who's one of the people who um helps with the turtles and I um took a walk

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with Schlomia through um the the turtle nesting grounds and um Schlomia talked about the value of fire especially for um a certain species of

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turtle. Um so and I was I was really impressed with her knowledge. Um and I think that that Lamia and her organization could be a good partner

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with us. Um, but specifically the reason I I asked Lama to come tonight is to talk about fire as a way of maintaining the habitat, the nesting habitat. Um,

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and in our habitat management plan, I don't think we had mentioned fire, but I think that maybe we should. and maybe and so I want Schlomia to talk about

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that and um and help me convince this committee that we should try and add the possibility of using fire um for our habitat management. Okay, take it away.

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Oh, could you take down the um the share the the share screen? Thank you. Okay. >> Um yeah, thank you so much, Emily. It was it was really amazing to walk on that site. Um I'm happy to answer

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questions. I don't know um what would be helpful for me to talk about when I visited um the the area that um that Emily was showing me with the um with the turtle work that that she's doing.

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Um it's really um fire a type of habitat that is um fire m that is sort of fundamentally fireformed and fire maintained. Um, a lot of species there like fire and want

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fire. Um, tur the turtles among them, especially the Blandigs turtles from what I've read, um, benefit from burned habitat for their travels and nesting. Um, and I mean, the turtle end I'm sort of just learning up on, but at least that

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I've been I've had had been reading about them. um and how much they need fire, how much they benefit I should say from fire habitat. Um and sort of looking at the history, fire is one of

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the if not the biggest force that native peoples traditionally used to maintain healthy habitat in this region um and in most of the continent. and it is

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one of the biggest changes that has happened to the land is removing fire. Um there are things that people kind of try to do as proxies for fire which is important when you really can't use fire but on the other hand um prescribed fire

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does things on the land that we're really just learning about. Um and we're seeing the effects um kind of right there there are things that you can see that fire immediately does that you can try to imitate but there's a lot that happens on the ground

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in the ground in the roots in the nutrient cycling um in the nutritional value of the food that's grown on on on fire land. um that is is kind of unique and distinctive to fire. And it seems

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that site with the species composition that you have there is just asking for fire to come back. Um and that that could be important for um preparing soil in ways that are helpful for nesting for

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other species. Um, and um, I don't know what else would be helpful for me to share or I can kind of um, take questions or um, what what would be helpful? >> Um, one thing that intrigued me, you had

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mentioned a study of Blandings turtles and um, their returning to fire scarred land um, that had recently had fire. Could you talk about that study?

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>> Yeah, I can show you. I mean, I'm happy to send anybody the paper. I think I sent it to you, Emily. Um where they did a study on an area that had been burned over time in patches um in the Midwest. So, they have a little more um a little more fire than we have,

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but they they were burning this area in different spots. And they mapped they tag um radio tagged some turtles and they were mapping where they were spending their time um where they were spending their time when they were in in

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pond areas and also over land. And in the overland it seemed like they had a statistical preference for the most recently burned land. And after that they liked kind of land that was burned a little while longer ago. um but that

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they had a preference for this for this um land that had been burned within the last year, within the last season. Um and that got me thinking about what would be different if our land saw more fire. Um

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and there are a lot of spec, you know, there's a lot of reasons for a species to become rare or endangered. Um but then there can be kind of underlying vulnerabilities, right? if if car encounters is one of them. Well, if they

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have to travel for suitable habitat or nest near roads because that's an area with bare soil that they that sort of thing, um that's going to going to affect how other factors affect them. um

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and just strengthening the health of a population or the well-being of a population um even when right people aren't listing lack of fire as one of the stresses. There are plenty of other ones but it

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can be um in ways that we may not understand and ways that we could learn more about. One of the things that Inland does, the organization um that I started is work on research. So, we don't pretend to have any final answers, especially trying to bring back

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practices that have um that have been out of use on the land through a lot of changes in the land. Um we don't pretend to have lots of final answers, but to have directions to work and things that we know will at least be a very good

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idea. um and then to do research and to learn more about um about the effects of the work that we're doing. Um so this can this working um here could certainly be an opportunity to partner for for

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research um for for inland to partner or for UN inland to partner for other with our other organizations to learn more about um the turtles and fire also. Um, does that answer the question? Does that help?

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>> Yeah. Anybody have other questions? >> Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Um, kind of a two-part question. And Emily, you probably a part of this in I'm gonna pronounce it wrong. Shamaya. Shamaya. Is that how you pronounce it?

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>> Shomia. Yep. >> So, two-part question. is part of that it encourages discourages woody growth and more encourages the herbaceous growth with fire so you're getting rid of is that preferable in this habitat situation Emily is that one of the

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reasons and also is this something I know you could do like annual or periodical like every couple years versus other management techniques >> um >> question for Emily and >> well one of the things that we have to

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do to ma maintain the nesting habitat is we have to scarify the surface. Um and a couple of years ago um we had a little work party in the um late summer fall

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and we um we had shovels and we we just dug like down like 6 in or so and turned over the soils to to kill the

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the plants. And we also sort of pulled rock rocks out of that area and we had two little plots like that. And sure enough, the next spring a Blandings turtle nested in one of those spots. So,

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um the fact that a fire is going to to eliminate the plant growth and really that's going to start succession over again. Um, I think that would be a lot easier to do

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than digging with shovels by hand. >> Um, so that was one of the things that I was thinking about. We also talked about um invasives on our walk. Um and

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um Sher could could say more about that cuz Sher had been to some meetings um with other groups and also with with the state where the people speaking said that fire is going to eliminate all the

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invasives like be a magic bullet and and Schlomia said well that might be true for certain species of invasives, but for some species of invasives, it will improve their chances of of

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growing. So, um that was another thing we talked about. Um but but one thing that um I've tried to do every season is when

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I go down there usually I pull up all the white pine seedlings. And last, not this year, but the year before I must have pulled up at least a thousand white pine seedlings. And when I walk there

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now, there's a thousand more white pine seedlings there. Um, and it's it's just it's really frustrating. Whereas I was thinking um

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if we used fire in areas, different areas, it would make those specific areas have to start from scratch. Um,

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and it just it might be a better way to try to keep the land open for nesting. >> White pine seedlings are good tender. So, [laughter] >> but uh going broke for me.

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>> Yeah. within the past year there was um one of the issues of um mass wildlife uh magazine a little magazine it had an article about the reclamation of a of an area I think it was somewhere in the

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middle of the state and um they did a lot of work removing trees and shrubs and everything they wanted to get back to what it used to be which was uh some kind of barren I'm not exactly sure but the description of it was like, "Oh, this is where our turtles nest and this

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kind of thing." And um the uh one of the strategies once they get it back and start introducing uh the the flora and fauna that had disappeared and there was some evidence that it was already beginning to come back, fire was uh was

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one of the strategies that they were planning on using. So, um, and I I'll try to find the magazine so, uh, I can talk a little bit more, but, um, it does some kind of, um, uh, Baron. Do we

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>> Pine Baron? >> Maybe it was Pine Baron. Yeah. >> I mean, this is a combination of it's I mean, there's certainly Pine Baron going on there. what the big grassy area is. Um, that's really much more open. I

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don't know what that would technically be called, but it may also be a type of pine baron, but any baron or heath land um are all really fire maintained. Um, frequent fire maintained. You were asking I don't know, I'm sorry I don't know anybody's names here, but um you were asking about the frequency of fire

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in terms of um um woody encroachment. Um, so it really does depend on the frequency. If you're doing it annually, that's really a way to get um to keep the woodies off. Um,

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if you do it every 2 years, every 5 years, it really depends on the underlying soil conditions and moisture sort of where where's your cut off point for preventing the woody encroachment. Um, and some woodies you may you may get certain kinds of trees and not others.

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small white big white pines will be resistant against fire, little white pines will not. Um, and you know, one of the reasons that native peoples used it traditionally is that it's a very big, right? It's relatively low labor for the

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amount of stewardship mileage that you get. Um, and it sounds like Emily, that's one of the things that's of interest here is when you're doing it, um, the the hard way um, in terms of labor, you know, that that the value of that in terms of

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scarifying the soil, I really need to, um, look into that more in terms of exactly what fire will do on the land because it will, um, in some places it can encourage the growth of certain herbaceous plants um, but it's also will

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expose mineral soil, right? When you have uh organic matter all over the soil, it'll expose that which is beneficial to a number of turtles and other reptiles that need that for nesting. Um so one of the things that

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would have to be figured out, first of all, no stewardship, I mean you know this, right? No stewardship is ever in and out done, right? You don't do don't do one fire. Um but we'd have to figure out what the regime would look like, right? how frequent, how hot, that sort

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of thing would have to be figured out. >> And Selena, uh, didn't you, uh, talk to was it Dan the >> Go ahead. >> Who who wrote the habitat maintenance

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plan for us? >> Yeah, I spoke with Dan. Um I also spoke with the [clears throat] TASA field uh director and um both of them think this would be a good idea and that it would

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be worth including. Um I [clears throat] myself also think it would be a great idea. My family growing up we always had a spring burn to help control um the growth around us. So,

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um, nice. >> I am going to recognize Veronica Kell. She has her hand raised. Thanks, Selena. Um, let me lower my hand. I have one question though on this piece of property. I can see the value

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in doing it. I I I am thinking of the houses on Horseshoe Drive and I know if a controlled burn started out back here, I'd be a little concerned. Um I I wonder

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uh if any if there is any parameters for the um housing that's in such close proximity to the field. And that's it. So, I'm going back offline. [laughter] So, that that would be my concern on

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this. That's all. >> Yeah. Should I uh speak to that a little bit? >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Okay. Um I also now remembered there was a question about invasives that I may be able to add a bit, although Emily kind of summarized well the conversation. Um

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so houses yeah there when one sets up a prescribed burn um there are a lot of sort of rules and frameworks for how to do that safely for everybody. Um and that includes um so first of all you have kind of a

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burn prescription that identifies where you want to burn and it identifies things like um in what season and what um what kind of day you can burn on. So that includes things like identifying

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anything in the area that you don't want smoke going toward or anything you're concerned about in the area. Um, and then you make rules, right? You write out um what the wind direction has to be, right? I know people who burn and

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they're burning on Long Island and there's just buildings everywhere around and things they have to be worried about. They're right next to hospitals and the whole thing. And they identify what they need to be concerned about. Um, and they notify, right? Some neighbors they will notify, okay, this is the morning that we're burning. You

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need to close your windows, please. um or we recommend you close your windows. Um and then other ones where they will shift the time of the burn based on um things that they're concerned about in the area or that they have a very restricted sometimes wind direction that

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they're allowed to burn. And if the wind isn't going in that direction, you just don't do the burn that day. Um you also cut um you sort of identify lines, fire, what's called fire lines um sort of areas without vegetation or you create

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them. So you come in and you um dig with either machinery or by hand sort of areas that aren't going to be able to carry fire. Um and you um and so you're kind of there's a lot of controlled in the controlled burn. um

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you divide up typically an area is divided into smaller units. Um if the area is any size itself, you divide it into smaller units called burn units and you place fire brakes between them so that you're only burning, you know, you burn one and then if the conditions are still good, you burn the next and if the

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conditions are still good, you burn the next. That increases diversity on the land, which is really important cuz then you can choose to burn this one every two years and this one on the off years or things like that. And you um but it also gives you a lot more control over not having fire beyond where you can

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safely put fire that day. Um and you have to I mean neighbors can be you know in many instances neighbors will at first be concerned um which is fair and you have to you know you talk and you explain and you show um and you address

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particular concerns. I know people who were burning and somebody had a um one of the neighbors had a child with asthma and said, "I'm worried about this." And they burn while the kids at school. Um so there are ways that you kind of work with people and their concerns and you

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also kind of people learn that fire can be a safe thing nearby. Um does that answer the question about um about the houses and neighbors? What what more would be helpful? >> No, that's good. Thank you. I I just think it needs to be a consideration.

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>> Absolutely. >> I haven't actually seen a controlled burn more than just a couple of times in the my hometown when I was growing up and it struck me that the because he would do it every year. The flame doesn't get we're we're we've created

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this image of these towering infernos from the wildfires in Canada and out west. But the the actual if you're burning every couple of years, the flames don't get very high at all. I I guess will they? >> That's the question. [laughter]

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Oh, you're frozen, Somia. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah, that's one of the great things about regular burns. Um, sorry. There's if if I'm too laggy, I'll switch back over to the phone. Um, just let me know.

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Um, where you have um what's called a creeping fire or a light surface burn and it's relatively low temperature. Um, and that's kind of the type of fire that you get when you do it regularly. And that's one of the reasons that native folks would burn traditionally is

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because they didn't like a big wildfire. Um, especially not near their towns and uh fields. Um and so when you burn it regularly and one of the they would actually teach um in the early times of the colonist they would actually teach them that if you burn out an area

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regularly you won't get that fire problem. Um and so indeed the flames stay low and um and the question right a question happens is how do you get to there right when you have a land that hasn't been burned in a

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long time um how do you get back to the point where you can burn safely and sometimes that involves kind of pre- removing some vegetation um in order to get to be able to start fires again safely um we'd I'd have to look sort of in more detail exactly

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where we'd want to burn um at the that um the field site, but um but it seems really nice sort of open, right? It's not completely overgrown in ways that make me sort of feel like you'd have to do a lot to get it back to being able to

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be safely burned in that in that way. >> Generally, how big are these burn plots that you describe? I forget the name of you call them, but you burn one and burn generally. How what are the dimensions? >> Yeah, burn units. Um, and they're

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generally um so around here what I've heard about is along the lines of a a fraction of an acre to an acre, maybe two, depending on the conditions. um when you go out west and they just need to burn huge areas then you could be

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talking you know tens hundreds thousand acres in a burn unit depending on but around here you're talking under an acre maybe a little more than an acre um of burn unit um and those are al also

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designed to follow kind of existing um features in order to control fire so if there's a ridge line or if there's a road or sort of an area that's already a natural or existing divider. Um, people

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will use that to form burn units in order to minimize the amount of disturbance you have by kind of removing vegetation and um maximize the amount of control that you have over the fire.

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Selena, were you gonna speak to um the water department? Was >> um yes. I haven't heard back from them yet. >> Okay. because Selena had a question about whether the water department would

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also support this idea. But what I was thinking was that we could just add to the habitat management plan some sort of a um a statement that says that controlled

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burns could be considered. Um, just just to throw it in there, not that we must do controlled burns, but to add that to one of one of the possible ways

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that we could u maintain the habitat. So, >> um I might add, um Selena, if you're talking with water folks, um I'm happy to put them in touch or put you in touch with um people in Massachusetts and in

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and elsewhere in the country who are um who are water managers, right? That primarily what they do is water um and they are using prescribed fire to manage better for um for water resources. Okay. Um, let me just see what they say

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and if I need resources, I'll reach out and [clears throat] get those from you because yeah, that would be helpful. >> Just one other comment. So, when you first mentioned these U burn units and I visualized our location, um, the units

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that I visualized that you do one and then the other were significantly less than an acre. It was more like what I envisioned was maybe 200 feet by 200 feet. I mean, do we do you ever do it uh

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that small a unit? >> I've seen that. Um I mean I am no expert and I would not be like personally at the level of training that I have, I would not be the one laying out those burn units whatsoever. That's people who know more about the on the ground fire implementation than I do. Um, but yeah,

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I've seen burns done that that size. >> Seems more controllable somehow. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> I think anybody interested too, I forget the exact plot of land. It's right in Harvard on 2A maybe 495.

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I can get the exact measurements. they do it every spring for anybody interested in going and looking seeing what they do there. So I'll get the information for that for everybody if anybody's interested in contacting those people with what why they're doing that. It's a meadow that I believe they're doing for bird habitat actually

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primarily. So >> Molton I would love to learn who's doing what there. >> I'll I'll get that information if I can from Harvard and share it with them. >> Sure. So, could I could I make a motion to to add

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um using controlled burns to our habitat management plan? >> You can. >> Yeah, [laughter] I can. [gasps] >> I move. [laughter] Oh, I have to say my name, right?

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>> Yeah. Emily Fine moves that the possibility of using controlled burns um to maintain the habitat be added to our habitat management plan.

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[snorts] >> And you second it. >> Second. Valerie did a second. >> Who second it? Valerie. Valerie. Okay. All right. Can I have a roll call vote?

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>> Emily Fine. Um, yes. >> Selena Thomas. Yes. >> Val said yes. >> All right. Great. >> Well, thank you, Schlamia, for your time

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today. It was very informative. >> Yeah. Can I just say one thing before she disappears? Uh the conservation commission has had the pleasure of having Shia speak to us several times and we always enjoy it so much because

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we always learn so much. So uh and that's what happened here as well. So thank you very much. >> Always. >> Thanks. I would concur. >> Thank you. >> Okay. All right.

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Next thing up, um, agenda item 2.2, the conservation restriction, uh, status update. So, um I finally got in contact with Misty Anne,

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um to ask the questions that we had from when we last reviewed the conservation restriction document back in May. Um

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just this one. Okay. So, um, one of our questions was whether or not we needed to review the restriction with her since we made some edits. So, I

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specifically put in what those edits are. Um, and so you can see the email here. Um the first edit we made she had no issues with.

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The second one was about the sledding on snow [clears throat] covered slopes. Um so her she said the idea is not a problem but the specific phrasing could raise problems um unless we define what sledding and

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snow covered are. So, she suggested a change in the text to something more like non-motorized snow travel when the [clears throat] ground is frozen and more than 50% of the traveled area is covered in snow or

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ice, but except as may be posted to disallow such activities. excludes all use of snowmobiles, all-terrain vehicles, utility terrain vehicles, motorized snow bikes, dirt bikes, and other gas-powered electric

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powered or hybrid winter travel vehicle. So, >> well, since wouldn't it behoove us to to use her suggestions? Isn't she the one that has to sort of

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give the final okay? >> Um, I don't know that she's the final okay, but she is part of it. Yes. Um I think using this would be fine. I'm wondering

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about including the specific types of motorized vehicles and instead just say excludes the use of all gas powered, electric powered and

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hybrid winter travel vehicles. I don't know that we need to include specific types. Any thoughts? >> Yeah, I think I think as as she wrote it, it's quite redundant.

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>> Yeah. >> All right. So, I'm going to >> [clears throat] >> find that section and then I'll pull it up actually. Okay. Oh, I gotta make sure this is set to suggesting.

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All right. So passive recreational use of premise such as non-motorized snow travel when the ground is frozen and more than 50% of the traveled area is covered in snow or ice

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[clears throat] but except as may be posted to disallow such activities. Excludes all use of we just say motorized vehicles. >> Sure. >> [laughter]

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>> That should cover it all. >> All right. So, that was that one. >> Just a a question so I can prepare myself emotionally. How many of these suggestions uh did she make? [laughter]

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Well, she made two to the um things we talked that we changed and then she added some other things in addition. So, >> so not not too many. >> Not [laughter] too many.

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>> I didn't know if this was going to be the the slog or not. >> No, this should be fairly quick. All right. >> And I would have sent this ahead of time, but she only just got back to us. So, sorry. [gasps] Um,

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all right. So, she had no issue with item six, but with item seven where we were talking about Woods Roads, um, [clears throat] and we said there aren't any existing ones, so we wanted

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to take out including Woods Roads. Um, she recommended that where we say new footpaths are discouraged, we might need to it might need to be included in the purposes to

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have a legal hook or basis. Maybe add a sentence in I A and IC related to foot traffic. So IA and IC are um up at the top. [clears throat]

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So the purpose of the conservation restriction and a it's talking about wildlife habitat protection. Um, so I'm not quite sure how we or how that would need a foot path

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because it's just talking about what species are here. Um, and then I see scenic landscape preservation. Yeah, I'm not entirely

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>> Could you go back to the first one? Yeah. Wildlife and have it. So, conservation will protect habitat used by variety of wildlife. And she wants us to put something about

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footpaths in here. >> That is what was indicated. It doesn't make sense to me. >> Nope. I would think I think it makes more sense where we wrote new footpaths are

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discouraged to put the reason. New footpaths are discouraged in order to protect habitat and the

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whatever uh part C was Does that make sense? >> This is where we talked about it. >> New footprint [clears throat] are discouraged are discouraged and then and to to put the reason

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>> but I don't think we need to put the reason >> but she wants us to. No, she doesn't want us to put the reason. She wants us to [clears throat] I think she wants us to have something >> might need to be >> about

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um having foot pads on the property. Is it part of the purpose of the property? Cuz that's what this one section one up here is all about. It is what the purpose of keeping this property as is.

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Okay. So that's the purpose. But then where we're saying that new foot path paths are discouraged because >> but I don't think we need to say >> to support the purpose of prot. So I

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think she's saying that we need to include in the purpose that foot paths are part of the purpose of this area. >> That doesn't make sense. >> Yeah. I think the only place it might

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make sense is in here where it says the land protected under this conservation restriction is an important public resource and that it has open space attributes in the recreational human enjoyment.

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So I think >> but that >> that already talks about people having recreation on here as part of the purpose. So I'm not

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like calling out foot paths specifically seems again redundant. Well, the the purpose of a footpath is so people can traverse from A to B >> recreation >> without disturbing the habitat outside

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the foot paths. I mean, but that's kind of obvious. >> And new foot paths would be discouraged because the foot paths actually chop up

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the habitat into smaller pieces. And habitat fragmentation is um one of the causes of um decreasing species diversity.

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>> Um so I think I would recommend that we don't add anything about foot paths other than what we already have. >> I think that's a great idea. when when the town council looks at it, maybe he'll say, "Oh, we need to, you know,

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add a definition in legally here or something like that." I'm almost thinking that's kind of what she was meaning. >> I think that's the >> the legal hooker basis. But wouldn't the legal hook be better

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right there? Right. right where we say foot paths are discouraged so that habitat is protected and it I don't know all right so are we okay moving past

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this one >> yes >> okay um and then she said oh I reread the CR and would recommend a couple of edits [clears throat] So, XIV,

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we don't have an XIV. [laughter] [gasps] This is fine. big picture and a good I think this is aimed trespass entrance traveler otherwise disturb areas in the BDR.

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Let me see if I can find that. >> Looks like it would be handy. >> Oh, did I XIV? That's why I write it backwards. Sorry. Okay, this was the section.

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Um, so XIV trespassing on Sandy slopes except with written authorization from the division. She recommended saying trespass, entrance, travel or otherwise disturb areas identified in the BDR [clears throat] as a sand

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management area and any additional such areas that may be created after the BDR. >> Is our BDR going to label sand management areas? I don't feel like that's what we called them in our

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habitat management plan. Um I can look it up. Want me to? >> Yeah. I'm just trying to remember when our last habitat management plan was. I think it's from February. Does that

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sound right? >> Okay, I will check here. Documents see >> which year? >> 2023. When did this start? [laughter] >> Habitat management.

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>> I shouldn't. Yeah, we we had >> I have one from March 12th, 2026. >> March 12th is the newest one. Okay. >> Okay. And now what am I looking for? Sand whatever. >> I don't think we called them that. I

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think we called them sandy slopes. She called it sand management area. >> So, should I look on the map? H >> Yeah, >> the habit. Okay. So close this one.

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See our committee draft habitat management map nesting foraging. Oh, he didn't see Sandy slope just describes what it

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is. uh sandy uh management area implies some active activity going on in that area I think. >> Yeah, that the map doesn't even name them.

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>> So it's not it wouldn't be in the map see our committee. So, it's got to be in the plan nesting habitat description existing [clears throat] trees nesting habit. All right.

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>> I don't I don't see anything here talking about. >> Yeah, we talk about the sandy slopes, but we also talk about first wash, which is a sandy slope and lower flats.

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not sandy, >> right? Slope one and slope two and the blanding slope, those are all sandy slopes, but we never >> call them out like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah,

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>> we never defined the sandy slopes. That's she's referring to all of them because they're all sandyish, >> right? Yeah. >> So, what does she want us to do here?

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>> So, I think she wants us to um >> this is >> that people are not allowed in any area defined in the BDR and then define it as a particular thing. So that would mean that the BDR

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would need to include this terminology. Slope may not be the maybe something like as sand management area >> and we have to put that in the BDR. Though in the BDR we would define

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specific spots as sand management areas. >> Sandy slope management areas >> which would be yeah the sandy slopes. >> Right. First slope, second slope, landing slope,

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sliding hill, and above the wood pile. >> Yep. I guess we just have to do it. [laughter] All right. So then We'll change this All right. And then the next one is the next item. [clears throat]

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Um, so this is uh saying that uh you're not allowed to remove vertebrate wildlife except with written authorization from the division. [clears throat] So if the intent is a messa species that

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is already prohibited by law. If the intent is other wildlife there are variety of other state laws that apply. So maybe removing, harming, harassing, moving or transporting vertebrate wildlife

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except as permitted by relevant state laws. >> [laughter] >> We want to avoid having someone call the division for every injured mouse and chipmunk. It's not great, but Okie dokie. That's fine.

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So, we have to make sure to put sand management area in the BDR, right? >> Yes. >> So, who's going to tell the person who's doing the BDR? >> Well,

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um, I'll add that to the BDR thing. And when we get there, we can figure out. >> Okay. Okay. Oh, I got two Rs there. [clears throat] Okay. Okay.

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And management area. Okay. All right. Um, so that was up for the update or it for the updates. Um, she did suggest that we put up signage that

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indicates that people are not allowed to go on specific sandy slopes and whatnot. I know we already do have some signage out there, but she just wanted to include some

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specific um examples. >> Mhm. >> All right. Um so that was [sighs and gasps] whether or not she needed to review it again. Basically, she said that she

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doesn't need to review it unless we make any more significant changes. [clears throat and cough] >> So, let's not. [laughter] So the next part of the conservation restriction um

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was that the draft document was supposed to go to um town council after July 1st. And I spoke with Kieran, the town administrator, um, on [clears throat]

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Thursday and he said it had not yet gone to town council, but that he thought it would be soon. And Val, I don't [clears throat] know if you have a different update since Thursday or not. >> Nope, that's the basics.

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>> Okay. >> Issues. Um there's been some other more pressing matters that have taken our town council resources in the intro. >> So that is the plan. >> Okay. I've got just one other little

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what is that coin in the ointment or something. [laughter] Um we are adding the possible use of controlled burns to the habitat management plan which is a part of the CR. Correct.

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No. So the habitat management plan is another document. It's not part of the um CR document itself. And uh >> so we don't have to get Miss Deianne's okay for

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>> well she has had the habitat management plan for review. Um, and as part of that email, I asked her when we were going to get it back, and she said that she plans to review it next week.

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So, I will send an updated version to her with that line about the controlled burns. >> Okay, great. >> So, it's still in her to-do list. Um

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and yeah, >> is she aware that we really need need to get this done soon? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um okay. So I will send

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that to Dan and get it incorporated. the the controlled burns and get that sent to Missanne as soon as possible, probably tomorrow. >> Great. [clears throat] >> Um, so the next part of the conservation

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restriction document is that uh this might actually be part of the BDR, but they're all tied together. Um, it is the new map that shows the

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conservation restriction on the property where it will be located. So, I sent this to you guys all this evening um shortly after I got it and [sighs and gasps]

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it looks to me like it covers the area that we had all talked about. Um, for TASA's point of view, there is one question as to whether or not this corner um, at the corner of field two,

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[clears throat] excuse me, is in the right spot or not because the survey crew did not find the little monument that's there that shows the corner of the field. So, uh, they're going to go back and

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verify that the corner is in the right space, but that was the only item I saw as far as [clears throat and cough] as far as any issue.

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I'm wondering about um the area near where the test wells are. Does >> the CR area go all the way to the shore? So the boundary of the land doesn't go all the way to the shore uh of the

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property. So who owns the shore area there? >> Um let me see if I can So, H&G Realy Trust from the looks of it on [clears throat]

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on the side that on the right hand side of the river there. >> Yep. Because this is the property line. [clears throat] We've been laboring under. >> But it's a dashed line there, isn't it?

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A dashed line. >> I don't think that's a property line. Well, I think it's >> Let me see if I can >> And I was I I recently looked at um

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the map that's that's on the town website and it didn't it didn't show that. It didn't show a property lying there. All right. Yes, I have the town assessor

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map. And you're right. The property line goes right along the river. >> Thank goodness. Okay. [laughter] Yeah. >> Okay. So, that is a question for Dillis and Roy property,

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>> right? So the CR should go right to the water. Right up to the water. >> If that map is correct. [laughter] If the other map is correct. We've been releasing turtles on private property. [laughter] >> The assessor.

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>> I vote for the assessor's map. [laughter] >> Yeah, obviously. [gasps] Wow, this is a new little wrinkle. >> All right, I will ask him about that. [clears throat] Thank you for catching that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, cuz right here it says the river

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property line is the property line, >> right? So on their map, they just need to to [clears throat] move the CR all the way to the river. Okay, I will talk to Ryan about that

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tomorrow. And catch this little corner too. Right. Which corner? Right here. >> Right. Yes. Selena, can I ask a question? >> Certainly. >> Are they surveying based on the deed?

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>> Um, I don't know cuz that surprised me too. I mean, I just saw this map now and I also thought it went up to the property line. I've always thought that, but I don't know that this property was ever surveyed

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even by the town when it was donated. I don't know for sure. >> Yeah, I don't know. I will ask that question. Okay. All right. Yeah. Everywhere else it seems to be following the property line, which is

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good. [laughter] Yeah, like they have this little detail drawing of IRF. I'm not quite sure what that is, but this is IRF here. >> Was that probably that that's probably

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what it should be. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> If they have that, >> they're probably correct if they have [laughter] those markers. [gasps] Yeah, if they're working from a deed that describes, you know, straight line from A to B and to the different points

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>> and if it's been so long too, that actual waterway, it's possible is not an exact place. >> No, there's lots of really big trees close to the river, so

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I don't think it has changed that much. >> Yeah. And it does say like river property line right here. [clears throat] So I'll ask why why it doesn't and I don't know. I'll

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I'll ask. [laughter] >> Okay. >> All right. Are there any other items of concern that anyone can see? Uh, Selena, can I >> Yes. Veronica, go ahead. >> Did you forward this map to Anna as well

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at North County? >> Yes. >> Okay, good. Thank you. >> Yep. Yeah, I will ask her for any questions she has before I contact Ryan in the morning. >> Okay. just to make sure that they got all the pieces that she had talked about

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that they did not want as part of the CR. >> Right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah, I did look those over. Um, but I'll make sure she agrees. >> Could you just scroll up a little bit there? Okay. I just wanted to make sure

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that that um that jog to the right was there. Okay. >> Yep. Um I have one other question as well. Is the I'm not seeing it but I'm not seeing the full map. Is the um water department piece on here? You know how

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we had to provide the size of the building and the location and all that? >> So the water department um all of that will be included inside the conservation restriction area. So it

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doesn't get put on this particular map because this is just showing what is in the conservation restriction like what part of the parcel the water department stuff is included in other maps that

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show more details of other things. >> All right, great. Thank you. >> Yep. All right. So, [sighs] um that is all I had specifically for the conservation restriction

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[clears throat] update. Um does anybody have any other questions for that piece? All right. So then moving on to 2.3 reviewing funding sources. Um nothing

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has changed since our last meeting. So unless anyone has any questions, we can move on to the next item. [clears throat] >> Um I do. Um >> go ahead. because the cost of the BDR

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is less than the um grant we got, the recent grant we got. Um and um you said that in in our in the granting of that grant

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to us, it was said that the money was to use in order, you know, for to use for costs related to obtaining the CR.

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I had asked at the last meeting whether some of the leftover money could be used for um what was that one more thing that we had to give to North County Land Trust. I forget

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what that was that we were going to we were going to try to raffle my quilt to pay for that. >> The legal defense fund. >> Yeah. Do you know whether we can use the extra money for the legal

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defense funds so that we won't have to do the raffle? Did you find out? Um, so we said based on the wording of the grant, it just

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said it was for costs associated with the conservation restriction. It didn't call out any particular item. Um, so I did not go back and ask them if >> it was

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for a particular I'm trying to find the email. Of course, I cannot find the email and I want to walk. It's 3500. Here we go. Okay, I think this is it.

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All right. Is this the application and not the actual grant? >> It's the application, >> right? No, >> no, it's the grant. [clears throat] Ah, here it is. Okay. Sorry, I went past it.

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>> Yeah, I was going to say it's the funds will be used to establish a habitat management escore account and contract for the EDR both as required by the state. So, we did spell out that specifically. >> Yep. >> So, we can't use the extra money. It's not. I think the email we got from them

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was before this came in where it explicitly talked about the items. >> So, we still need to do a raffle. >> Yes. So, we will still need the monies for the legal defense fund.

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>> Selena, do you want me to just double confirm that? >> Yes, please. That would be very helpful. Um, >> can you just >> can you just bump that document to my up in my inbox? >> Yes, I can. >> Thanks.

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>> No rush. You can do it after the meeting. >> I'm just going to hit the forward button on it and then I'll do it after. But that way I won't forget. [laughter] >> It's in It's in there. It's just It'll come to the top tomorrow. So, thank you. >> Yeah. Um,

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so I do believe there were some other possible sources for the legal defense fund if we end up not being able to use this grant. So, um, at the next meeting, we can

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hopefully know the answer to that question and then discuss other options. And that way I can make sure I look through my notes for the other possibilities. >> Okay.

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>> All right. Any other budget related questions or comments? Okay. So then next up is uh 2.4 review of the BDR status. Excuse me. Um I spoke to Kieran last

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Thursday um and he said that he had not yet contacted the uh group that we discussed uh the woodsman for doing the BDR. So that has not moved forward

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yet. His his intention was to the end of this week. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> So by the end of this week >> that is what I have received as information. >> I can I'll double check on it and keep an eye out for that.

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>> Okay. All right. So, as far as making sure that the um sand management area uh item gets included in the BDR, um I think we need to just keep that on

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our radar and then when we start working with them, we can make sure that gets included. Okay. >> Don't know how else we could do it right now. >> Okay.

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Okay. Any other items about the BDR? All right. So item 2.5 presentation update. Um the recreation committee has agreed to include uh

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members of this committee coming to give an overview of what we've been doing at their next meeting. I don't seem to have it in my calendar because that's how this week has gone >> and it's only Monday. [laughter]

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But I know that it is before school starts. Um so I believe it's the week of the 17th of August. Um I am happy doing the presentation to the recreation uh commission.

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If I'm thinking that I will send an email that says when the meeting is and what time and then if anybody would like to join me, we can decide that via email. That way you guys will know your

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schedules. Um, and as always, if more than two of us go, it has to be a joint meeting. Does that sound good? Yep. >> All right. Then rest assured that I

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won't [laughter] be going to that. [gasps] >> The other meeting that is outstanding is the public meeting. Um but again, I think we're not quite ready for that. Not until after things move bit further

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forward. So, any thoughts or comments or questions? All right. 2.6. The agenda for next meeting. Um, I think it's pretty much the same as this agenda except we will

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take out item 2.1 because we just had that presentation. Um, does anybody have anything else they would like to add or change to the agenda? All right. And then we need to pick a

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date for the next meeting. Do we want to try in two weeks on the 17th? >> It's my birthday. >> No, we can't do that. [laughter] >> No meetings on birthdays. It's not fun. [laughter] So, I'm

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>> How about the 20th Thursday? >> I could make Thursday work. >> Yep. >> It should work for me as well. >> All right. So, August 20th, 700 p.m. >> Yep.

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All right, [gasps] then. Could I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Make a motion to adjourn at 8:27 p.m. >> Valerie Goodrich second. >> All right, roll call, please.

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>> What time? What time was it? >> 8:27. >> Oh my goodness. [laughter] Emily fine. Yes. Selena Thomas, yes. >> Go a chess. >> Mike says, "Yes."

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>> All [clears throat] right.