like to call to order the towns and conservation commission's um meeting for December 10th, 2025. Um can I roll roll call please starting with Mike Mike Padet present. James
Doyan present. >> James Gates present. >> President Mike, do you mind leading us? >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. This meeting is being recorded. Is anyone else recording? >> Yes, I am. >> Thank you.
>> Hang on one more minute. >> One moment. >> Sorry, I'm late. Sandy, you mind just uh announcing time you're joining us? We we're just getting going. So, >> okay. S Lord 705. >> Thank you. Chairman's additions and or
deletions. There wasn't anything. I saw my email. >> Nothing that needs to be added to be voted on or anything. Yes. While I get my notebook. >> Yes. >> Thank you.
Um, chair report. Um, I had a conversation with the owner at 112 West Meadow Road regarding Silk Fence um along Lockbrook.
Um, and that will be taken care of tomorrow. Does anyone have a copy of the agenda? >> Yeah. Sorry. >> Oh, it's okay. Thank you. Did you pass or have a copy of the meeting minutes from October 22nd?
>> We'll move it to the next meeting. >> Yeah, >> the minutes. >> Oh, no. This is my >> Oh, okay. I started looking at it and I did. >> So we're just behind that one. >> Okay. Um so I'm actually going to um
be re uh review and approve meeting minutes from October 22nd, 2025 is going to be moved to January 14th, 2026. Um 1.7 uh last couple weeks I visited 71 Pittsburgh
as you know there's a OC there for new septic and they Uh they've got their supplements in place in state. U I visited one people road extension.
Um and I know this is not it's not for the conservation commission to monitor but it's what I have to do with my time. Um, so I had to make sure that the storm
water permit there is is um up to date, that the monitoring and the infiltration on there. Took some photos and it was done very well. >> And that was what
road extension. >> Oh, extension. >> All right. I'm sorry. rail trail. We do have the CC coming up on that. >> Yeah, I spent I guess I'll just say I spent
bit of time walking trails to take pictures, try to take pictures with the snow cover just to uh complete the COC for it. uh 112 West Middle Road that came up
just today actually. >> I actually mentioned that in my report, >> but you can go over what you talked with. >> Okay. >> It's probably going to be very same. Um kind of realized a little bit of a
a gray area, I guess, for permitting because it was permitted for the driveway to go in and some I missed the conservation commission being um being informed about that. Had it had that happened, we probably wouldn't have
had the confusion that we had today. Now, when you bring meaning I'm a little lost on the driveway, is it the driver location that >> No. So, when you put in a driveway in the town or any town really, you you have to request a permit from the
>> by what? >> Building inspector. >> No, you requested by the um highway superintendent. Oh, >> it's a separate permit. >> So, how do you want to deal with that?
>> I mean, is this the >> So, the Do we have an issue where the car is in the front and the horses are in the back? >> Carry on, young man. right to catch up with the analogy >> somebody
like reverse that analogy somehow. So, >> um it's really a loophole. >> Yeah. >> But it's something that we can approach at some point and in all our free time. So, I I was just going to have a
conversation with the DW super uh and to keep us in the loop when they go in so that we can run it through um any any of our jurisdiction areas. >> I don't know how you would do that.
>> It isn't in our jurisdiction. They're performing excavation within 200 foot or 100 foot operation. >> I'm I'm sorry. I'm just where is this? >> 112 West Madam.
>> Oh, okay. >> So, >> it's right across from >> if it were the building permit, right? Town desk. >> Correct. >> On a form. >> Yeah. You have checks and balances there. And this one has yet to um have a
permitted building permit pro. >> It hasn't been submitted. >> Not a new one, >> right? >> Yeah. >> The last one was denied. >> Um
but yeah, there was an old old old order conditions. Um but the footprint or the work is being done outside the buffer. So >> I I did a little drive by. I didn't I
didn't stop and talk to him because it was a bad time. He had dump truck in the road and he was up in the middle of the slope. But >> but it's active. There's a lot of live dirt there >> and it is a strong radiant. My concerns
were why I spoke to you, then I spoke to you. It needs to be addressed. It is a downward gradient. I did that sitewalk six plus years ago. And in our
discussions at the meeting, we were all very adamant that soak control was key. We've already had one problem with it as you remember, James. Uh yeah, it wasn't it was just the whole fence wasn't maintained >> and so but once again
>> so breached and it got out he had to be reproached and there was a fine le >> so there there should have been documentation of the last time there was a breach in the s fence when he was building the first two houses >> I had asked you
>> yeah and I didn't find anything but >> I was in the office today >> it came up comes up as a different address Yeah, it would come up 110. >> Yeah, >> cuz originally that was one big parcel, >> correct? And they broke it in three. >> They're supposed to He's supposed to
have the soul fence in tomorrow. >> It's built for that. That's owns it. >> And I'm comfortable long as the silt fence is implemented and it's stable, >> right? And last time he only pulled the sil fence up. He didn't replace it. And I asked him to replace it this time because
>> correct. We've already been there, done that. What, a year ago? longer than that. >> Okay. So, you know, the episode fence is non-existent. So, now he's got to get in contact with Jimmy Smith with the highway department,
get his building permit. >> Well, that's not him. That's not ours. Not mine. You know, >> what else? >> I don't mean uh other one other house 10 West Elm Street. Then that's going to be a septic
replacement and it I haven't received a site plans or or septic design for it yet, but it's it looks like it's going to be within 100 ft. >> Yeah, that's another job. >> And uh that was that again. >> Yeah,
>> Wisconsin. >> Yeah. >> So they're aware they're aware that you need to know. Uh last one is 180 D road and I came across a month ago.
So changed the address from zero Whitney right on the corner of 13 in Dudley there. There you have a building for that. >> Oh, across from the police station. >> Yeah. Y
>> and that's all I have. Any questions, comments, thoughts? >> Yeah, this is why I have to say um I signed the appointment of agent form for Craig Burch today. Um and that's part of uh the the
cutting plan and plans moving forward for meeting house road and they are moving forward. Uh he has >> submitted the um horse cutting plan to the service forester. Uh they are looking for um
uh a letter from the again from DBW supervisor to go right up to the road on 119 to remove the uh trees there. >> Would that be the would that be the uh dot >> because it's 119?
>> Good point. I don't think it it's not our jurisdiction. That's >> it's not Route 13. >> State, >> which is our state. >> So, it be DOT because they're doing the bridge >> that out. >> Okay. Yeah. >> That's good. It's moving forward with the cutter.
>> Yes. And he's expecting to be in there in some point in January. >> Couldn't be any better by then. >> Yeah. Moving along. >> That is all I have. Got school in your eyes. Anything.
All right. Um 716 on schedule. Um 2.1 16 Meadow Road continuation of NID number 308-0724
TWW 2025-007 applicant P. The proposed project includes the raising and uh raising of uh existing garage and other out buildings and the construction of a new garage within 200t riverfront area
partially within 100t riverfront area. Um and within 100 foot button buffer um Frank with Bill Mory is here representing. Thank you. Um once again, Frankartland from Zillison Roy here on behalf of the
applicant, um Corey Patterson for 16 Meadow Road in Townsen. Um >> Kobe, are you going to sign on to >> Yeah. Okay. >> Pull it up here in a second. >> Yep. >> That's all right. Um, so since we last
met, um, I I consulted with my client and we have moved the proposed garage and gravel driveway completely outside of the 0 to 100 foot riverfront zone. Um, we've also uh changed the footprint
of the garage um to 40t wide uh by 52 feet long including the lean to. So, so you in other words, you reduced it by what? Instead of a 50, >> so it was um it was a 40 by 50 building
with a 10-ft lean to and now it's a 40x40 building with uh with a 12t lean tube. >> So, the lean 2 is considered an external extension of it. >> Yes. It's it's still going to be all the same roof. Um correct. So, it's it's
essentially a 40x 40x 52 building, but um uh for clarity, um I included in my reubmission um the kind of the proposed layout of the barn itself. There'll be
three doors, three garage door bays on the front. Um, and then a manway on the side, which is basically the the previous one had three garage bays on the front and a manway on the front and door on the front. Now we've moved that to the side, which has allowed us to
shrink the size of the garage. >> So, the facing profile reduced the width of a man door. >> Yep. And uh what I what I also showed was the roof pitch for the building. It's going to be front to back peak in
in the middle, not side to side. So it's going to e either discharge onto the gravel driveway or down the back down the lean to to a stone drip edge that I added to to the plants. >> And the runoff is going to be basically
directed to the road. >> What's that? And the runoff is basically >> well it could be gravel. So >> should >> in the winter time it doesn't matter whatever >> in the winter time it would run over
essentially 50 ft of gravel to the road. So there's >> my point being I just wanted it to be established whatever runoff from that roof from that driveway is going to the road. >> Yes. >> Okay. That's all. >> Um yeah. So the roof pitches front to
back like I said. So, we included the drip edge. Um, I discussed with my client uh plans to pave the driveway, adamant that he does not have any plans ever to pave the driveway. That is, he doesn't want the extra expense. He wants
the the gravel drive dry driveway and that that's it. I said to him, if you ever want it, you'll have to come back and permit it. And they might say say no. And he said, I don't want to do it. So it is >> I I've seen a lot of moments and times
where people say no no when no it's always going to be in this use etc etc blah blah >> completely changed completely in 180 as quick as it was permitted as quick as what they said they would
>> Harley can uh co have screen sharing please >> I I I made that I made that I made that point and I said >> we will respond we can even show it as paved >> and then you don't pave it. >> He didn't want to make that change. He
he he wanted he wanted gravel and gravel is all he wants. So, >> okay. >> Um the proposed use of the garage is uh residential um storage and maintenance of vehicles, home work, shop, etc. There's his car, his wife's car, and a
mother-in-law's car. three garage bays, three three cars, and then in internal storage that fills up real quick when you have family and kids and >> No, absolutely. >> So, in other words, the question in the discussion was that it was not going to be utilized for any of his business. >> Correct.
>> operations. >> Correct. This is a >> because that to me is another stick staking point with me because it is a residential area >> and the premise of it is for A B C D vehicles >> vehicles vehicle maintenance and
>> he's reduced some of his external bonds. I now can see where he's going to have a buildup of other things he's going to want to bring inside too. So, >> right. Well, and even then you say vehicle maintenance and it's not probably real vehicle maintenance.
>> Correct. >> Because I remember when I first got on there was a huge discussion about >> what is the verbiage of >> Yeah. So I just don't want it to >> not the maintenance of everybody's vehicle in the neighborhood. >> Right. >> Correct. This is not a shade tree
mechanic garage. This is a this is this is home use. >> Right. I I like that. >> I'm learning some new verbiage tonight, Frank. I appreciate that. H happy to help. Um so, uh that kind of outlined
the changes. Um I also uh I adjusted the size of the um the construction staging area. Now, now that we moved everything o over, I made it um >> well, even as much as that, he made the
driveway that much bigger. So he has all the more per se area for trucks, parking, equipment, etc. >> So he pretty much is in good shape in that regard. But it increases of course.
>> Can you zoom in a little please? >> Yeah, >> where he's referring to now is the speed. >> You're just looking. >> Yeah. So the the the original stage staging area look was pretty small. Um, I don't have those dimensions, but I've
almost >> And it was just off to the right. >> Yeah, it it was smaller and off to this side. >> So, I I kind of pulled it over just to let him have a little more area inside
of the silk fence to potentially staged during construction. >> Sure. I didn't want to have >> and of course that staging area after the the disruption will be rate clean >> will be restored to existing conditions. Yes.
>> And then you know you have the slab elevation >> which is 300.5 and the existing contour >> down slope is 300. So you're not >> you're not raising the area. >> See
the plan. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't want to have to get up and do that. I'm trying to be lazy, you know. >> I got to get I gota get another speech. Anyway, >> go around the table and start with Mike.
>> I don't think I have anything. It looks I mean he's satisfied what our concerns were and um >> I don't have anything else. >> You have to have something.
>> No, >> not just a little >> is all the stuff on the plants that >> Well, the the waddles and the silence aren't on the legend, but I wasn't going to say that. >> You should. >> But that's what we have. >> Yeah. Okay. >> You know. >> Okay. critiquing.
>> Um but and that's something that we that can be changed or >> Sure. Yeah. >> Amended and but just >> quickly noted sent to us. >> Yeah. >> Um Jimmy, do you >> I think Frank rebuttled, you know,
eloquently as to what my concerns were. I mean, it's good that we've increased the driveway. We've got it on a further set back. We're out of the 100. He increased and kept the staging within the silk fence areas. Um I mean it's
apples for orange as far as the mandor going away from the front and to the but it's still >> it made the building narrow. It served its purpose which was to me I it's appreciated that he appeased us in those
regards but with your discussion with him like I have concerns with we don't want to see that turn into somebody's you know a bunch of company trucks here a bunch of equipment being store it's a residential setting let's maintain that
which it seems through your discussions with him that's not a problem you Um G was to you James. >> Um I
I think this um revised plan addresses everything that we had discussed in the last meeting. um >> then some, >> you know, it I remember if it reduced the footprint much, but it's still in the right um
spirit of things uh to that we're we're trying to accomplish um so that the property owner can build the the structure um that he wants and needs uh but doing it in a mindful way. That's
really all I have. I don't along with the reduction of some of those out buildings which is good for him, good for how the aesthetics will not where the aesthetics you know whatever or anything but in regards of
and you know everything goes back and forth in trade it's all good it's all good anything you >> No I listen and I looked and it's you know Everything looks good as far as you
know what's been done. So >> Sandy, I know you um we talked a lot about stuff last time. So um >> Right. I just I'm going to ask a few questions just because I'm I'm new to this. So I'm like I'm just trying to figure out how everything works
together. Um so it sounds like the 100 foot buffer was addressed in the How does that affect the the 200 foot area? I'm sorry. I'm not sure how it all fits together like so it's away from the 200.
>> So So we um so the original concern was >> still working on the 200 >> let do his job is so um >> answer the question quick and easy. >> Yeah. So the the the originally presented plan, we felt that essentially
having kind of it worked out to less overall disturbance but more disturbance within the 0 to 100 uh riverfront zone which itself is a resource area. Um and and
D guidelines basically by regulations basically want to limit disturbance within the zero to 100 and that it it's more more desirable to have more disturbance in the 200 if it means you
don't have to disturb the 100. >> Oh, okay. >> And in in the best terms, what what do you what would you refer it to be? It's it's not a tradeoff but it's >> compromised
but the >> certain things we can achieve but certain things we cannot we would in a perfect world want it not to even be in the 200 but I mean there's a dwelling there there's a house there there's established area
>> and and the the upland area isn't covered by a septic system so we can't we can't put it in any area that is nonjur jurisdictional because that is all already taken up. >> Yeah. >> What other questions did you have?
>> That was basically my main one that because I was just trying to figure out like you have all these adjustments and stuff and I was just trying to figure out I heard you say that it's not within the 100 foot but then I'm thinking what about the 200 just answered just answered that question. Thank you. >> Yeah. But as Frank said in the
guidelines and in the eyes of the DP D to have that 100% out of the 100 and we can deal with it better in in that area in the 200. >> Okay. >> As he explained far better than I could
ever >> and Mike is really he can show you if you have a question he's right there the 200 the 100. So, and he's a real stickler for him to be mocked properly. >> Okay. >> You know, so he's the, you know, he's
the man that really does a nice job getting them. I think is you really want to make sure that they >> are presented correctly so we as a group can read them. >> I was thinking and and on on the legend on your your point, I was thinking about the jurisdictional lines more than the
proposed lines. So, I'll I'll make sure going forward that the uh the erosion control is also in in that letter. >> Are we concerned about that riverfront area that probably won't get
impacted or will get impacted somehow? You want to compromise? >> Keep explaining. >> Yeah. >> Work yourself into >> I know the terminology is escaping. No, it's fine.
>> But you understand what I'm saying though? There's like 200 and then you stay away from the 100. It's better to be further away. >> Are we worried about any any kind of >> impact upon the wetland still within the
>> Pretty much not or >> um See, that's kind of a drawn out. >> I'm sorry. >> No, don't. Is this a time to bring up what I brought up last time about how some of Col's photos from last time showed that uh the mowing goes right up
to the existing land or maintained landscape. >> So, it's not like he's mowed something that is new or he put in a lawn that's new. That lawn has been there I don't even know how old the house is. >> Um it's it's an old house.
>> Something that's just always been like that. And that's it. that is exempt from, you know, we can't tell him to stop. He has to stop mot. >> If I remember my my original >> I don't think we're answering what you're trying to ask. >> No, I was hoping you'd grab on to it cuz
I don't want to touch it. Don't >> I'll mess it all up bad. I know I won't. What what what what we have is is a situation here where um the the the existing disturbance on on on the property uh if I remember my dates right
it it predates the Rivers Act 1996. So so that that that >> I know that Yep. Yeah. So that that lawn condition from the 200 foot buffer down to right in close to the wetlands um is a
it's a pre-existing disturbance of it. It's a pre-existing condition of the um of the the river riverfront zone zone there. So, um with that with this being
maintained as grass um and there being existing buildings here already, consolidating those buildings in the outer 200 foot riverfront zone um I would say maintains
the the existing condition with within the one 100. So, it's not going to be ma making a situation worse. >> Um, the way that the water will be shed off of the building to the front and the back is going to extend the amount of
time it takes for the water to run either most like mostly through the grass. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that's it. the stream >> park. I I would have a concern if the roof was was pitched the long way and was dumping water kind of straight
towards the the stream. Now it's going to >> come down falling it fall into the drip edge >> and then run through the uh through the grass to the the river. I mean that that that grass is going to essentially operate as as a
filter strip. >> Yep. kind of a riarian zone in itself. Well, because it's a vegetated an existing vegetated area which is defined um by mass D in their response >> their response
>> right yeah and any areas that are disturbed are going to be turned back into what was pre-existing >> um you know that will filter out any of the junk and slow it down prevent erosion and this would be a significantly different
question if this was a wooded repairing zone that we were we were trying to permit a building in. >> We gonna ask Sandy. Yeah. >> Um you made a mention last time maybe requesting a little bit more grass left before not mowing all the way to there.
>> You know, we would be hardressed to even approach him in the in regards of the 35 foot no disturb. This is pre-existing. >> It's pre-existing. It's established. >> We have to be we have to be careful with that sort of stuff,
>> right? That's why we, like I said, I didn't want to goof it up in my analogy, in my opinion of it, but like I said, that's established area. There is already a house in there. There are outuildings in there. >> So, we can't tell them no, you can't,
and correct me if I'm right or wrong, Jenny, we can't say he can't put this in because uh it's not just that, you can't tell them you can't mow a lawn that's been lawn for since before I was born, >> you know. And in the regards of damage done, that area is all it's all it's
gone through the soil compression. It's established. It's not going to run off. >> How frame has it outlined with the salt fence? That's a that's a a suitable area that is protected by the silt fence. >> Yeah. >> Um or water, whatever is chosen. Um
>> yes, both, which is perfect. um you know and it it it contains that construction area um to that area and then anything that is disturbed is >> receded and um >> reveated so it it turns back to what it
um it's returned into its natural state quote unquote but there's also no real grading associated with this either. Um the slab elevation is 300.5 and it's six inches higher than what's the contour line is the closest contour line is
>> six inches. Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's engineering. >> Um, so >> we what >> everything was done that we were asked or that we had asked, but >> yeah, >> you also have to learn uh, >> right? >> And you're going to see other sites
areas that are going to put you into a tail spin compared to this. >> Okay. >> I mean, this is good. This is a good learning curve. But >> Adam's road, that's another example which is a lot. >> Yeah, we can there's a bunch of examples. Uh, okay.
>> They're all unique, but you're >> I can think of one of those >> in the words of wisdom. They're all unique. They're all Give us a learning curve 19. >> Yes. >> Um, yeah, this I I think this is the right
approach and it's the right adjustments. um to be made. Colby, did you have any input that you was need? >> Uh let's see. I I appreciate you you and your client changing the plans and adapting.
Um there's a administratively uh on in the eye uh the I think it's page three I was trying to bring it up uh has to be changed a little bit to reflect the new uh alteration areas within 0 to 100 foot
riverfront area and 100 to 200 foot area unless I missed that. >> No I um I updated the plan um itself and those numbers. I didn't go back and revise the notice of intent. I I can either I I can I can e either revise
that document or kind of just issue an update memo to >> because it's reducing it, right? Yeah. >> We're changing um >> you're not going to get a refund, but >> Oh, no, no, no, no. That that's that's not a video.
>> We just want to let you know we can't do that. >> No, I I think you wrinkled because you have to >> do the paperwork. >> Um, as far as the jobs I do, you need some flagging up there. I can see where this 100 foot
area about quarter. I don't see any up there. >> Uh, here's what flags. >> So, what flags were you worried about? Um, and >> I was going to say we we could um, >> you know, as a do you want to see it on
the ground >> at this point in time? >> We I think we should. >> Yeah. >> I'm not gonna >> So that could be part of the >> I think we should, right? >> Yeah. What I would suggest is that could
be a a condition um where you're put it on a no say for that. It's a special it' be a special condition. >> A special condition where we could um you know we could stake out we either stake out the 100year riverfront the 100
foot 100 buffer or I would I would suggest staking out the erosion control >> because you know some of that's 100 foot buffer and that would that that would clearly establish >> his his limits of work instead of just having him eyeball it.
>> Oh okay. So, so I I would I I would suggest a special condition to stake out the erosion control and limit of work. >> No, but had you you specific concern was wetland blocks, >> right? >> Right.
>> Well, really I just want that this construction is >> outside of the 100 foot. That's correct. >> And I'm sure >> I got conflicted for just a moment. >> Well, what I mean, we could add to that condition that we we stake out the
building, too, >> you know. So, so because this is such an item of of of concern. Let's let's survey locate the building instead of someone pulling swing ties off the existing house or something.
>> Frank is being way too accommodating. >> What? wonderful more item. >> That's not the revised one. >> This is where I get to be the next one. >> You guys still have the option of asking of requiring requesting um a peer
review. Um if you think that this is not sufficient uh if the plans have not been uh adapted enough or altered >> Mhm. >> you still haven't >> to get a third party.
>> Well, let's we can talk. We can go around the table and and >> I have not heard this. >> No, we did. We did last. >> Did we? >> I remember that. >> I sometimes voluntarily make I don't remember.
Mike, your thoughts on we're not This isn't like a vote, but uh third party review. >> I don't think it's necessary, Jimmy. >> I do not think it's necessary. >> I I feel that it um this plan is amended to accommodate all the require or the um
feedback from the state. >> Had I seen anything that they were not willing to take and work with us on, I may not. >> Good point. You know, >> Pat, >> yeah. No, I I see that. Yeah, it looks like, you know, everything that
was revised, redone is now going to work for everything. >> Sandy, >> everything that sounds good, but I just want to hear what Kobe has to say about it, about your recommendations.
Um, you know what the peer review could do for you is, um, tell you a bit more about the delineation of the wetland. Maybe they have they have a creative option for the building and placement of it.
You don't know until you hear what they have to say. >> So, Col's point is is a is a good point. Jimmy's also had a good point where if
the owner was didn't want to change what was proposed, um that's that's a different almost um yeah, we would have to approach it differently.
>> Yeah. Um, again, >> um, >> yeah, I don't know, Sandy, did that answer Kobe's >> Did Col's response answer your question or your >> It kind of raises more questions because I mean, I don't want to see anybody run
through any more hoops than necessary. I I realize everyone's been really accommodating. Um >> um and if I may um so please situations that I've seen where peer review has been asked for from a conservation
commission generally include >> um much larger wetland delineations >> uh >> right out of the get generally um and will include stormware calculations some
something that that you need an engineer to look Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um this we we have no storm water cow populations. We don't really require them for um disturbance air areas. There's nothing to kind of
trigger that with with this work >> and we have a um about 180 ft of wetland line. It's uh not a very large delineation. Yeah. >> So, um I as someone who does peer
reviews, I would be very surprised to see something like this come across my desk in a peer review proposal. >> Can you collaborate more on that for for Sandy? >> I don't. >> As far as >> you can't collaborate with me. >> That that would be a problem to do that.
>> My point being is where and at what point in time have we been I not >> third party peer review when >> I I don't know not since I' >> 17 years I have never once been
>> there been times that you might have needed it though >> in my opinion though I I don't think this is one of those >> I would I would agree but I don't see it at that no not here so >> um
simply on the fact that it they the plane was amended to um accom accomodate what our concerns were >> and and to fit in the purview of the regulations >> and get out of the 100.
>> Yeah. Purview of the regulations. So that said, >> move the motion. >> Well, I I I'm going to make a motion and then we can have discussion still. Um, but I I make a motion that we issue
a O close first. >> What? >> Have to close first. >> Close what? >> To close the room before you can >> No, I have to do that after. >> Okay. Um, what I've done always are. >> No, that's
fine. >> He's okay with it that way. >> I've always done it that way, but if I'm doing it wrong, I want to make sure I'm doing it right. >> You just want to do it consistently. Um, so I I make a motion that we issue a um order of conditions uh for D number
308-0724 TWWB 2025 uh 007 with a standard order conditions along with special conditions that the um Bill Roy
>> stake the silt fence layout and the building footprint. >> A second >> discussion. >> That includes Does that mean it includes like the 100 foot buffer? >> So the
building >> So the building footprint is outside the 100 foot buffer. >> Okay. So it's a way >> it would by them staking it because they're going to use cheap GPS that will and they'll field measure to verify but that that staking will make sure that
it's not someone relying on a paper plan and scaling off of it and saying oh good enough. >> Okay. Um I'm just looking for a little >> So that's how measurement was by them doing the footprint layout. It would
ensure that it's outside the 100 foot. >> Okay. >> Um frontfront did that clarify? >> Yes. Thank you. >> So mo motion and a second. Uh if there's
no other comments >> my part holds as a second. Did he? >> Okay. roll call vote starting with Mike. Yes. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> So, Kobe because I I'm new to this. So, >> what are your thoughts on this as for
the peer review? You feel strongly one way or the other or you just throwing it out there as a possibility? >> I'm making you aware of your options basically. So, I'm not saying that you need to or it's you should. It's for you to decide upon. It's an option. We also
lean on you for recommendations and if this is a project that you you know we yeah we we do ask opinions. Now we don't always have to listen but as my wife I never listen
no uh they are abiding by what the D is asking. Yeah. >> And acquiring. Um, I think that's, you know, this, what you said, this house was built long time ago
with different rules. So, I think this is the best situation that um can be um yeah. So >> maybe to help you with what you just
went through, he he made a recommendation as far as where he stand. Correct me if I'm wrong. You should address this yourself, but >> I don't think I I I was good with what had said.
>> I'm just concerned about where this third party um came from. >> It's the same place that the bonding came from. once when I brought it up. >> So, >> all right. Uh >> it would it would also protect the town
from anyone questioning if uh the regulations are being followed. >> It would protect the client as well. But with that said, we are outside. We are
the project was amended to um fall within the DS or the WPA's regulations. >> Correct. >> The WA and once again to address other we're
the commissioners, but it's ultimately the commission's decision to approve or not to approve. We can listen to recommendations if we chose to. If we saw problems, we would decide to make and go forward with a third party.
>> Well, and and with and with that said, that is also true. Um if we denied this project, applicants have the right to um >> within 21 days. >> Yeah. They they can um dispute it and
then it becomes just a mess. Not a mess, it's a lot. there's a lot of abort and then it's um there's other issues >> as Frank explained to you if you go to that next level for a third party review that gets expensive. It gets tedious and
they could ask for a >> Oh yeah's overview of living in the swamp. >> I'm going to move this along. We're point >> I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns either. Um, so Mike second I broke all
votes starting with Mike. >> Mike said yes. >> James Dorian yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> General. Yes. >> This is I >> move forward with our >> No. You can say you. We're all one vote. >> Yay.
>> Nay or abstain? >> Or abstain. True. I guess I'm abstaining because I just don't feel comfortable because I mean this is one of the first few projects that I just don't feel comfortable >> that there's nothing wrong with that. >> I've done that before.
>> Okay. >> I did that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, there's no wrong right or wrong answer. >> Okay. >> Um down. So that said,
>> um, >> so if she stands as an abstain or Okay. >> Yeah. No, that's what she So, um, with that said, I make a motion to close the hearing for 16 Meadow Road, uh, D number 308-30724,
TWWB, 2025-00007. Is there a second? Second, >> Mike. Second. Uh, roll call vote for Mike said yes. James Bion. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Yes. Sand that abstain.
>> You don't have to abstain from closing the hearing. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. It's for closing the hearing. For some reason, I thought it was the vote again. I'm sorry. Yes, >> it's okay. You can still say stay abain. So, close the hearing. >> Yeah.
>> Close the hearing. >> Do you want those? >> No. No. I see another one. >> And Colby, you have a revised plan that can get printed into something. >> I'm sure I'll give a lot more a lot more chugles when we >> Is Frank staying with us for 35.
>> Do you want to have a five minute break so we can have a scoopy snack and we all relax, take get our breath? >> Oh, wow. >> All right. Um, it feels good. We can move on to the next one. Could I ask one
question really quick? >> Have you taken the time to look at the webinar for your MACC classes or anything of the sort? >> No, I have not had an opportunity to do that. >> Okay. Have you saw any of your Can we get her the booklet
on the WPA and all the different stuff that a new I'll dig them up at the house. I'll get another email dialed in with the classes in the webinar. Please
>> got my password. >> Use what? >> Yeah, >> I haven't used my computer in a long time. It was the second one on my phone. >> We'll send you to the classes. They're great. >> Um, so 2.2 uh
35 Pittsburgh Road, continuation of notice of intent PDP number 308-0726 uh and TWWB 2025-00009. Um applicants Lawrence Churchville from Doulison Rory is also representing
um him. Uh the proposed projects include the repair retaining wall between the house and the Swan Cookook River which will be within 200 foot riverfront area and 100 foot wetland buffer approximately 7:30. It is now 7:55. Um
you sent a email yesterday with a narrative for >> Yes. So um >> just reading that. >> Not a problem. Yeah. Uh Kobe, I think it was on Friday, had asked for kind of a a more robust um construction C sequencing and weather contingency and I was able
to get to that yesterday. Um and that reads uh the memorandum dated December 9th, 2025. Um as requested by Towns and Conservation Agent, Dillis and Roy Civil Design Group offers the following uh sequence of construction. Item one,
notify towns and conservation commission of work commencement. Uh number two, install erosion and sediment control measures. Erosion controls to be installed along the top of bank of the Squanuk River is this and around the south side of the A
series bordering vegetated wetlands. So I added some more specifics there. Um, in in addition to what's shown on on the plan, uh, request inspection and erosion and request inspection of erosion and sediment control measures prior to any
disturbance within jurisdictional areas. Item four, um, install timber matting or equivalent along planned access to the lower portion of the wall to limit soil con compaction and reduce disturbance. >> Oh, so they're going to install a corridor. They they're gonna have to
install some kind of corridor >> to get down to >> Okay. So, they're going to put a wooden >> mat or timber mat or equivalent. >> Okay. Um and then uh to facilitate site
access, contractor may temporarily excavate in the vicinity of the existing deck. That was that kind of knob area that we saw on the sidewalk. Yep. No, it's an excellent point to to get a piece of equipment in there. >> They might have to dig that up or they
might have to alter that. So, let's have it in the C sequence of work in the permanent work that that's been before. >> So, in other words, when they back out of it, >> they'll restore it. >> We'll have the mic mic mound replaced. >> Um, and uh this area shall be restored
to existing grades as part of final restoration. Uh, step five, uh, demolish existing retaining wall. All construction debris are to be stockpiled outside of the 100 foot riverfront area. >> Show a spot. >> Yes. >> Um, I don't show a spot at this time. I
just call it out outside of the 100 foot riverfront area, which would put it up at the um up by the existing driveway. >> The house driveway. >> Yes. Up by the house driveway. >> So, it'll go to a stable accessible area. stable grass area.
>> He's got it. He'll put it up in a minute. >> I say um uh native soils are be stockpiled and covered on site for reuse within the project area. So, I don't want them um >> well, especially because some of those soils are wetland. >> Some of those soils may be wetland or
Yeah, >> they are. >> No, we're not we're not digging in the BBW. >> Oh, okay. But okay, because I I I think there's a great point for Sandy to learn. Um >> most when soils are hydric and they're
considered wetland soils, if you excavate them and then put them back, a lot of the the uh plant matter will reveate on its own. Relatively quickly, too. >> Oh, okay. Whereas if you bring in if you
import a soil that that physically has the same characteristics, it might not vegetate as fast because it it it won't have the the um native organics in it already. >> Which brings us to the philosophy why we
would use a straw waddle instead of bringing in a hay bale. That'll bring an invasive. >> Correct. the same concept of >> oh >> which you will learn at your MACC classes >> which is why I I make sure my plans say straw >> straw is dead >> okay
>> start in there per say that's technical here at this meeting >> six uh excavate with >> you excavate within the retaining wall work zone sufficient to install new retaining wall >> he's working on it >> geocynthetic reinforcement drainage
aggregate uh wall drainage and compacted back fill which is basically all the components that are on the retaining wall detail. Now I just so that's um uh stated that you know the the drainage that is associated with this wall is
daylighted through the wall but that doesn't mean other pipes are running into it. It's just to help the >> this is to keep the wall from being pushed over. >> Is that what they consider daylighting? >> Yes. In other words, let's just pour a hole out of the wall just for
>> any discharge degrading would be daylight. >> Okay. >> So, this whole thing is to prevent the land from eroding. I mean, it will just keep it he'll replace this wall. It just keep eroding and eventually the >> eventually collapse. >> Yeah. >> And then you're you're looking at a
property damage um or structural damage >> stability. I I would be in here for an emergency order as opposed to >> We'd be on the phone doing this on a Friday afternoon. >> Yes. >> Well, we've done it. We um >> so contractor to take all measures to
limit the time that soil is exposed without without uh backfill. Uh any unsuitable soils encountered within the limits of the retaining wall work zone shall be removed and replaced with suitable backfill. Uh item seven, finalized grading within limits of the
retaining all work zone loan seed and mulch disturbed areas in accordance with towns and conservation commission order of conditions. Um any areas deemed overly compacted shall be scarified prior to loan and seeding. Basically that that that means um mechanically
raked. So as as they're leaving so that the ground gets broken up and it's not what's been driven over. >> Okay. uh prepare uh animate prepare site as built documenting final grades on limits of disturbance and submit to the towns
and conservation commission. And that was a specific item from the DP when they issued the file number. >> Oh, okay. >> So, they want to make sure that that we haven't encroached into the flood plane with this work and filled in the flood plane. >> We don't want that. Um and then uh item
nine after review and approval of the asville plan uh remove erosion controls and schedule certificate of compliance inspection with the town of conservation town of towns and conservation commission. Uh and finally um I I say that the contractor shall install a
stock of erosion control barrier and straw waddle to repair any damaged erosion controls. I should have said on site um that's oversight on my part. And then in the event of inclement weather, contractors shall be prepared to install additional erosion controls to protect
any exposed excavation areas. >> That's nice. >> Um in addition, contractors shall be prepared to install sufficient sandbags to protect the work zone in the event that the Squanuk River is projected to flood during work activities. >> Wow. >> It happens.
>> It it absolutely happens. Uh I the last flood that I saw on record was like 2018. It didn't get up this high, >> but it was before that was 2010. >> Before that was 2010. >> Yes. >> Because that's where a lot of our floods are.
>> It was 2010. >> Yeah. >> Because the nearest nearest stream gauge is on Squanook back in West Groten. I think >> probably >> somewhere down by Perusi
is the river. >> Yeah. where Yeah. >> And they did all the my rope is still up there. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's what my son told me. Still there >> or someone told me and they just didn't
um they changed all the flood plane footprints in an increased much much larger area. >> Oh, no. There was a um >> Oh, the amended FEMA mass. He amended the FEMA base in June July of 2025.
>> Yeah. >> Which this flood is based on >> um this flood flood line is B based on Yeah. So there have been a lot of changes >> right and I knew they had done it this year mid midseason. >> Yes. Where the
>> so a lot of stuff is changing greatly. We we are seeing a lot of additional flood insurance applications around >> even their verbiage when they it when they even talk about a flood they roll the 500 now they're using words like oh
well this was a biblical event I'm like what did this >> I I don't like that in engineering writing but >> no I found >> right I just founded you know like Moses in this Right.
>> Um so um the the comments that I I had >> um at our last meeting other than us not having a um uh D file known number so the commission couldn't act allowed last time was
adding a legend um and uh we had discussed the possibility of um needing some kind of tim timber map for access. So that that was why I added that into the construction sequence which Colby had requested.
>> And that's no different like a logging man. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> They're generally, you know, eight 8t wide by 20 ft long and drag them in, put them down. >> Right. Depends. >> I think they're 8 foot ones. There are 16 foot ones. I don't think we'd be able
to foot fit a 16 foot wide one in this area. Um, and this will be this will be provided to the contractor. >> If they're going to propose anything different, we'll definitely review that with Colby at the um, you know, at her
before the any site meeting. >> Okay. Um, we can go around the table again, but uh, starting with the mic. Uh, well, I think you address all the the the concerns. I mean, it's impossible to
know what kind of flood is it going to be and and what are you going to do? It's a tricky situation. So, but it sounds like with given that it is a tricky situation that you seem to have addressed every concern we had, I would like to point out to Sandy that this
right here is like a berm that comes up and then down again. So, it's almost like it would be very difficult for anything to actually make it to the water. And so, this is just a, you know,
just a shore that nothing can get there. But yeah, so it is a steady slope down to the water. There's actually a pretty good burm right there. I'm not so sure about over here. >> I don't think as much on on that end. But yeah, this is this has has a pretty good burm
>> on the the east end of the of the work. >> And who knows if 80 or 90 years ago when they were working on that house, that was just an area where they were dumping material out dumping. >> Yeah. >> Yep. So, >> but they did address your one of those
more major concerns you had. >> No, given given the challenges here, >> seems like addressed >> concerns. >> Yeah, I think Frank's done a good job. I feel pretty comfortable as to what needs
to be done as to what they have to do to get to that point. It's pretty straightforward. Thank you, Frank. >> Welcome. Um, you know, the spirit of this project is to prevent further property damage um
and to prevent erosion and um environmental damage to this quant. Um, I think all of our concerns were addressed properly. All of D's concerns were addressed. Uh, and Colby did his due diligence by requesting a thorough
construction plan. We thank you, Frank, for providing that uh to us. Um, it is very thorough. Um, that's all I have. Pat, >> I don't have anything else to add to it,
>> Sandy. >> I don't have anything to add. I think it's a tough situation, but it has to be done. That that's the so this is the two sides of or just two examples of
>> how what we have to uh do as our job. Um and this isn't a a necessarily a want, it's a need, >> right? You're looking at major property damage. So I I I get it. I understand. Um,
>> so >> so I'll make a motion that we issue a order of conditions for 35 PB Road. Um the only and I'm going to just cover us with the special condition that the um
construction um plan is followed. >> Mhm. >> Um >> as it should be >> and is signed off by Dillis and Roy and our agent. >> So that just with his saying that means
you're going to have to keep it better. >> Well, yeah. It's also >> Mark's responsibility to also have to work in harmony with making sure everything >> the duck stay >> so that way that there's some accountability that there isn't just a
contractor going in there and >> stomping around and >> exactly >> we've seen him make messes. >> Wow. >> That's fair. >> No, no, I I feel that that that's fair. Um my my problem with with this um
sequence and some of the the other notes is to is to give the client an issue for construction set that updates what I have and I I can certainly copy that to Colby so he he has that >> and I'm sure as the owners they're going
to be keeping an eagle eye on it to make sure. >> Yeah. and they'll have that in hand and they're gonna >> knowing why. >> So, >> um yeah, that's that's the motion and
>> second. >> Any further discussion? >> No. >> I was kind of hoping to get the second, but once again, my whatever >> Bob jumped on it. Uh, if there's no further discussion,
roll call vote starting with Mike said yes. >> James Droyan, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> General, yes. >> Sandra Lord, yes. >> There you go. >> Thank you very much. >> Frank, >> thank you. Thank you.
>> Happy >> with no contention. >> All right. 3.1. Uh, >> oh yeah, thank >> we've had to do it before like so uh I make a motion to close the hearing 35
Pittsburgh Road uh DEP number 308-0726 TWWB 2025-00009. >> A second call vote starting with Mike said yes. >> What was the other one I wanted to do? We got James Doyan. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes.
>> Jav Lord. Yes. >> But you did the Scooby stamp, so I ain't going to make a big deal about it. All right. But I could 3.1 uh D file number 308-0669. >> Um rail trail greenways certificate of
compliance. Um ways is apply for COC on the portion of rail trail from depot road to the groten line. Um I'm going to obtain from this conversation and Jimmy can >> um
>> you want me with this? I forgot. >> Sir, >> which one are we doing right now? >> 3.1. Kobe, what do you have on this? Anything that >> refusing? >> What do you have on this? Um,
>> bring it right here. You got a screen share with it. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. Don't have these. >> I I have I have not been fed by by by a commission by Told you cutting edge,
>> right? Cutting edge back. >> There were a lot of documents involved with that 3.1. >> Yeah. >> Hearing to >> Is this a hearing
>> for CO? Thank you. That looks good. So you do have the verbiage on all of this. Um Kobe. >> Yes. I think I should open it because there is a document involved. It's the COC. >> Yes.
>> Open here. >> Um I want to make sure he's got his ducks lined up before we open it. >> Yeah. >> I mean because there's there's a degree of literature behind it, right? several years.
>> Wish you had known ahead of time you was going to have me do this, but >> surprise. >> I'm sticking around because I'm curious about this one because you see my email. I had um I had asked if you had any plans for this
>> on the rail trail. I'm I'm working with Greenways on something else and I was curious if there was a PDF copy of the notice of intent plans possibly available. >> We know better. >> What was the document you want?
>> So, I'm I'm looking to see if there's a copy of the notice of intent plans available. >> Yes. Um because I'm I'm proposing on doing some more rail rail trail work and I want to see I don't want to over overdo my my my plans. >> Yeah.
>> Versus what was previously approved. So I I want to submit some something at the same >> so the amount because I've I've I've designed a rail rail trails in the past where we've done something at 100 scale plan 200 scale
plan or I've done ones with you know 20 scale plans >> quarter >> just like a road >> oh >> railroad rail trail and profile so there's definitely different levels of >> right like the Washington rail
Winston rail trail or I did um I did a bunch in Cambridge. >> Did you do the winching? >> I did not do the winching. No. >> Okay. All right. >> Answer is yes. I have the NOI here um along with the attachments and the
modifications to it. So there's quite a >> That's fine. >> All right. So I'll open it. I'm not really sure which way you wanted to roll with this. >> Are you going to bring everything up onto the screen?
>> Yeah, I'm ready. >> All right. Um 3.1 D file 308 um dash 0669 rail trail greenway certificate of compliance. Guanquick
Greenways has applied for the um a COC on the portion of the rail trail for from depot road to the Groten Town line. Um I'm not sure which way we go on on that.
I don't have whatever information you I should have here, Jimmy. Um >> well, you second that. You just second. >> Yeah, second. >> Okay. Mike pot said yes. >> Okay. Roll call vote. >> Mike pot said yes.
>> All right. So I'll from there James Duran. Yes. >> Yes. >> Voting to open. >> Oh to open. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And yes. >> Oh, sorry. I got lost looking.
>> You want me to jump in a little bit? >> Please, Kobe. >> All right. So, um, Bill Friedo has been emailing me the last month and a half or so to try and close out the OC associated with the portion of the round trail that's
completed thus far. Um, and it I mean it goes it it's kind of there's a lot to it because it goes back several years to 2021 I believe, but I'll correct myself if I'm wrong. Um and it has some
modifications and it covers about 3 miles of rail track. Um so the extension goes basically from where the harbor dam is to the GR town line. That's the
continuation of the three mile we are referring to. Right. No, it this the OC covers the entire portion that's constructed now from where the from depot road >> Yeah. center town all the way out to the grton town line >> just beyond it actually.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And and in there there's there's plenty of wetlands that and wetland buffers that they were working in. There wasn't um and I have many
many pictures repairs. Um, it was a I mean I was going out with Jimmy even that issue with McGee turned into a change over with it too with issues. >> Yeah. >> Which is just now completed. So that
section is off the hook per se, right? I don't want to speak out of turn, but I have no kind of work that it's been finalized, but I I've seen better work there and >> because I would assume it would be
contingent on >> working with Dillis and Roy representative or um I have experience with the projects at McGee's pro property that abuts the rail trail. >> Correct. >> Um my understanding is that construction
is complete. However, the uh we have not done the asbuilt or or closed the um the state um uh order. So um >> so it's still open and pending. >> That's still open and pending. However,
my understanding is is the work other than plant things is done >> right and they're waiting for the stabilization and it to grow to a certain point in the field area etc etc. Yes, more or less. >> Right. So, can we really move on this if
that is open still and it isn't in if it's not in completion because it's active. >> So, my so my order is separate from this order of conditions. So, and any work that might have to be
done on behalf of the order that's associated with McGee's property is a separate file number, separate filing with the state, has nothing to do with with the rail trail >> D because D took it over from us. >> Correct.
>> Even if it was just still within the per purview of towns and conservation, they're separate file numbers. >> They're separate. was the D numbers. >> Correct. >> Right. And Kobe would have those anyway. Correct. >> Separate filing numbers cuz you had you
didn't per say go down and do any inspections on it at all. Did you? >> No. It's not requirement of the D for us to do that. >> Correct. >> They're guidance was to watch it and see if
there's any new disturbance that occurred. >> Okay. But I'm just not really sure if I can move forward on this with that being open and active if we can. We >> I think Yeah, I think that's uh
separate. It's covered under their order. >> Okay. So, all right then. >> Yeah. >> Well, what's left on it, Kobe? As far as what do we need to on the order of conditions? Well, um,
is anyone actually here from Squanica Greenways? >> I was wondering if John Barrett was here for that. >> Is he part of Squica Greenways? >> I think he has something to do with it. >> Okay, >> John.
>> Hi. Hi. Hi, folks. Um, actually, no, I I don't I could call Bill Ride out if you want. Uh, I don't know if he knew that you uh were dealing with this tonight, but um I was actually wanted to talk with you about the Adams Dam uh
situation. >> All right. That that's going to have to come later. >> Yeah, that's later on. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you want me to go sign off and call Bill or? >> Um Well, I think I'm going to just go ask Jimmy quickly what his intention. He
kind of sprung it on me and I don't I'm not sure. I didn't have any >> I I think we can start the discussion here because I think this is most likely going to be continued because of the you know the length of that trail and the different number of sites >> and the changes
>> but this is >> I'm not a voting member just suggesting that. Um >> I was hoping that I was hoping he was going to be here >> um so that we can point out a couple things that need to be worked on. I do have a couple emails out to him
uh for contingencies of the uh order of conditions. Yeah. That he's aware of. >> Um >> and I can go over those. >> How about we get >> Wait, did she just go to the confirm? Um Kobe, did I make Who's the engineer
on that? I'm going to be embarrassed if it was Stan. I don't think it was but >> Stan Mcllis. >> All right. It was >> so I I can I can talk about the orders and what was expected.
>> Please. >> So, uh there are numerous areas that like I said um go through the wetland. Um they were expected to be reveated um and um
help me out. They were the um left with no areas that could have potentially be um eroded. >> Um there within the attachments here there's a couple areas where as you know the trail was modified to go around the
church for one >> and have an infiltration trench. Um, >> and that was going around Martin's property, which skirts everybody onto the new sidewalk area. >> I I don't know, Martin, but yes, that sounds accurate. >> Yeah, that's the that's the property
that wasn't accommodating on that. >> Okay. >> Section. Um, and I have lots of pictures, but it's winter and there's snow on the ground now. And I can show them to you, but may not do it justice,
>> but may as well take a look. >> Did you get a chance to go out and look at any of it, Mike? >> No, this is all new to me, >> right? >> Predates my membership on the committee commission. So, >> well, it's knocked out with me. I mean, I've been We really haven't had a lot to
do with the rail trail. a certain approval. >> I know I know basically nothing about it. >> So >> So for that reason probably could just have discussion about it now. >> There's a lot >> we can prepare ourselves for what's
going to be coming at the next meeting January's anyway. >> I mean I'll get us through with it as as much of it as we can but he didn't give me any lead time that he was going to focus on me. Whatever I can do to help
anything that's flagged specifically from the order, you know, I can we obviously have some involvement with uh with >> Well, if Sandra is involved, you know.
>> All right. Let's see. They're going to be kind of look like all the same. I think I can try. All right. So, this is actually starting um I'm
going to buzz through them fairly quickly a little bit because they're going to get a little bit monotonous. Um >> that's okay. Just give us an idea of what we're looking at. And boom. >> We're going to start at one end of the rail trail and work our way up the depot.
>> So, we're in Groten. >> Yes. This is the drawing line behind the supermarket. >> Okay. >> Um >> Hannip Hanniffords. Yeah. And this is trap rock underneath. You know, probably the steepest section that needed to be
um firmed up. That's not a great word. Waiting for a word. >> Stabilized. >> Thank you. I really don't want to X out of this every single time. >> You might be able to make the photos larger on that view. You might be able to see them >> on here.
>> Yeah. Um >> Oh, yeah. Is there a view? Put a view to the uh three to the left. Yeah, >> see if that there's a large extra large. There we go.
>> That might >> help a little bit. You can see the >> Yeah, >> somewhat. >> Somewhat. All right. because I think the last time I got called out there was to look at
some trees and you were right there was that spot behind the um Hannipers was a real deep area where they did the six plus of them you know the rip route. >> Yeah. So this is probably the area most
likely to have the erosion on it. And the last last photo showed the rip wrap underneath the snow here. >> Mhm. Well, this is the brook down the steep slope and the back of the
>> roots. Where are my arrows? >> There you go. >> Uh, let's see. Let me take you out to the church area. So this is uh >> we had a little problem. >> The boat ramp. >> Yeah.
>> And this this deserves some discussion probably cuz the infiltration trench is in here. >> Yeah. >> Um that's just a stone trench basically. Uh you can still still see the soap fence up there
>> as best it was put up after it had been knocked down quite a bit cuz there's that's really a lot of traffic there cuz that's >> you can see the snows there. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. I had a small emergency I got to take care of. But anyways, what did I
miss? What did I miss? >> Um no, no, no. He he was actually getting >> not too much >> getting pictures out of the computer so we can look at some of these areas we need to address. >> Okay. >> He's presently but at the church that was just redone
>> and uh showing where the silk control is down the trench area that needs work. >> Okay. So really what we're doing is we're going over per se with Kobe some of the hot spots that he has concerns with. >> I see.
>> But we can't really know with the snow on it. So um >> but we'reating ourselves. >> A comment was made earlier. It sounds like DP is overseeing this whole thing and we No. >> No. There's a section of the rail trail
beh when when he did the work on his field, the water just ripped over the rail trailer and over to the other side. >> Okay. So they >> So he was put in violation through us. We pushed it to D because we were getting into some big headaches with it.
And my questions were how we could close this out with that being active right now and not signed off by DEP because it was both sides of the rail trail as I recall down there that would disrupt it.
They had to remove silk, they had to restabilize it, etc., etc. So, and we don't really know what the stabilization is like. We don't know anything because we haven't watched
it when we can see what's going on. >> But what we're doing now at least >> are showing everyone where some of these problem areas are. Let's get used to what we're looking at and we'll address it sooner than later. >> Okay.
Mike, I kind of got this dropped on me. So, I'm a little >> Yeah. Right. You know, >> just a start here. Like I said, it's big project. >> Actually, it turned out to be a very sizable project. Yeah. You know,
>> so this is kind of I'd say this is kind of typical of the sides of the rail trail where they are vegetation coming. Now Mike, I think if you recall when I met you at the church, >> that is an area that we had walked
when they had gone in and started cutting more than they >> Oh, right. Yeah. >> Do you recall that? >> Oh, yeah. >> That's where we are. I think basically on this picture, Kobe. >> Yeah. Looking east towards the church. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> I'm just trying to get you a little more dialed into what what that area pertains to. because that was a problem that we had to look at when he was cutting and brush hogging and etc etc. So this is another steep area and again
I just want to show you that it's it's vegetated and the work did not go outside of the um you know 20 ft of the rail trail. >> I'm assuming we are in back of stair line >> correct?
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Another steep slope. >> Yeah. >> Again it's stabilized. >> Yeah. Um, let me bring up the OC to show you the attachments that uh, >> so I I just want to ask this. So when
you say hotspots, are they like areas of environmental concern? Is that how you phrase it? >> I was thinking about areas that would likely be subject to erosion, right? >> Areas of concern, areas that we would want to make
time to look at and keep deep keep close with. >> Okay. So there is a little bit of homework when you guys go home to look over these attachments. >> Yeah, >> you got the standard um attachment here, attachment A, but
you also have attachment B. >> Attachment B. >> Okay, so it's two separate ones. So this I would say uh if you could focus on the u going over attachment B and see what they have to attend to.
there are >> and special conditions >> and these were this is where I pulled a couple things to tell Bill about >> 2013 what was it the end here
that I'm pretty comfortable with whatever you want to show us as far as the order of conditions A or B. I'm going to continue this, you know. >> Oh, certainly. Yeah. >> There's no voting to be made on this.
Yeah. the post construction. So, and there's a lot lot here to >> So, that certificate of compliance requirements. >> Here we go. >> Yeah. So I'll just read that uh for certificate of compliance requirements
following completion of work and stabilization of the project site and as built plan showing final grading and new structures and all storm water components of the site as well as a report detailing any deviations from the approved plans shall
be submitted to the commission at the time as a written request for a certificate of compliance. of compliance shall not be issued by the Towns and Conservation Commission until it has been determined that the elicit
discharge compliance statement has been submitted for the project and that it has been verified that there are no illicit discharges. >> Are they looking for a 401 water quality? >> I didn't see anything about a 401.
an elicit discharge statement would just be that that's a storm water requirement, >> right? That's why I'm asking. It's two different realms on that. >> But there would have been a if if you're putting in infiltration trenches and
whatnot up and down the this site, that would trigger a storm water and an operation and maintenance manual and in that would be an elicit discharge statement. >> Okay. So, so different path different document and there's two infiltration
treasures with the projects. One being near to the parking lot at depot >> at the church too. >> And at the church >> and at the church. >> Okay. And that's the one we have some problems with. We had to get the D signed put up. >> I got Jo to go down there and somewhat
reduce some of the >> and the materials that were left there. I mean, Right. Yeah. And again, it's a little tough because, you know, there's still going to be an open OC for that area, but the the infiltration trench belongs
to this LC. >> Oh, okay. And along with that, the church isn't in completion yet. That's still an open EP file, is it? No, it is. It's on that as well.
>> Okay. which he's still waiting for his permitting for certain pieces of that. I just spoke to him recently said he's still waiting >> for some more. So, we're way from Okay.
And I got to do some homework on this cuz I know I'm going to be the one to take the lead on this again. Okay. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to motion for a continuous. >> Sure. >> Okay. Um we we are going to at this point in
time with DD pay file 308-0669 the rail trail um certificate we're going to go for a continuence at our next meeting which is going to be will be when >> January 14th
>> 14th yep >> 2026 Six. >> Wow. >> Okay. So, as it stands, we're going to >> second Mike Pod said yes.
>> All right. James Drawing. Yes. >> Yes. Dear Lord. Yes. >> Okay. And we'll close that out. >> Do we have to close this one out? >> You leave it open. Continue >> open because it's continued to get that
one. All right. I'm Rusty. Rusty >> and um procedural question for my two broad projects. Would the order be signed at the next meeting or do you did I'm not sure how you guys handle >> Yeah, I think orders.
>> Um so I u go and created it. I I fill it in and um I attach the attachment a and any special conditions and then the commission come and sign it. >> Okay.
>> Yep. Every every time has a different can't thank you enough. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you guys. I'll send I'll send Jim back in. >> I was gonna say
>> I'll wake him up. Wake him up. Give him a Jack. All right. I can go back to what I was doing before I was in trouble. Thank you for your patience. >> Likewise. >> In my lack of knowledge as to what I was having, you know.
>> I think it's supposed to be uncomfortable. >> I think it's supposed to be uncomfortable. >> Yes. That deals with the territory. cold. My legs are a little bit cold. >> Do you want want to put the heat up? I'll put the heat on.
>> I don't know how to, but I'll still do it. Kobe, you know how to put the heat up on? I'm good with the AC. Not >> Oh, yeah. You're getting old, too. >> Am I the only one that gets up and makes
funny noises and limps? >> No. No. Do you have a good nap? >> Yeah, >> should do it. >> Something's making some noise. >> Yeah. >> It was continued. Obviously.
I knew that one was going to be a bit messy. My apologies. >> It's okay. >> Not your fault. I guess it comes with the territory. >> So, moving on
to 3.2. um National River Wild and Scenic Stewardship Council land protection grant update. Uh so this is in addition to the grant that we have already received. Um this is will allow us to
survey a second property uh that conservation that is under conservation commission. Uh, and they have granted us an additional $2,450 um to do so.
>> Um, and now what does that cap add everything out to be almost 25,000? >> No, it uh brings it to $18,450. >> Okay. >> And that procures both West Meadow survey. >> We've already done that one,
>> right? But there was one that they didn't have enough to >> It wasn't West Meadow. That was last year. So that's Alyssa Drive, right Kobe? >> This will allow us to complete the Bas conservation area with >> Okay. Corral plan of land.
>> Yeah. Which one's that one? >> So the Baz is on the Lenberg road. >> Okay. Corral. >> Okay. Corral. >> Yeah. That big that big sign thing. Okay. >> See, I I got a decision. >> I don't even know which one it is. The
Okay Corral. It's just south of um uh of Bayberry Hill. All right. So, we we received the additional funds. So, I make a motion that we accept the proposal um
number 25-8772 from Disoy um from August 6, 2025 to survey um the land map 9-3-1 uh-2-3
and four Lindberg Road open space parcel um also known as the Bassan's Conservation Area. area. Um, who >> has never been surveyed? >> What >> has never been surveyed before? >> Uh, it might have been, but it doesn't
have boundary markings. >> Oh, okay. >> So, the the the proposal includes boundary survey, property line staking, worksheet plan depicting lot staking, and 81X plan of land.
um plus the $105 uh registry of beats reporting fee. Um that's included in meeting and plan revisions or >> and that's all right too. >> Yes. Um >> they were we asked for how many
proposals? We we sought many proposals. We got two back and the other one didn't >> wasn't thorough. So the 81X plan of land allows this plan of land to be um recorded with the registry of deeds
>> with all the boundaries and everything. Okay. I see. >> So >> it was never on the registry of deeds before or just not with all the boundaries. >> Not the plan. >> Okay. >> So it it would be the deed would be on there but not the actual an actual plan of land.
>> What's the plan of land? All the boundaries and >> Yes. And a map. It's a map. >> It's a map. Okay. >> And it's deed to the towns of conservation. >> This property already, >> but not in towns and conservation. >> Yes, it was.
>> It was deed. >> You're thinking of Dudley Road. >> Dudley Road >> that we surveyed. That wasn't conservation uh commission. >> Okay. >> So, you're mixing up your years. >> Yeah. >> But I do, too. Um, so I make a motion to
accept this proposal for these services for the sum of >> $8,360. You are really definitely confusing your years. >> Yeah. >> Um, is there a second?
>> A second. >> Discussion roll call vote starting with Mike >> said yes. >> James, yes. >> James Gates, yes. >> Yes. Sord, yes. >> Even I got confused. I'm sorry. >> 3.3
um community preservation. >> A quick update for the other. So, this drive has been surveyed. The outside work has been done. Um so, let's move forward. Uh they're doing the um indoor work now, the mapping.
>> So, is it you're saying it's a conservation piece? >> Yeah. So, it's it's an open space parcel that was associated with the development of Alyssa Drive. >> I see. And we did the same thing with that one as well. But we the grant we didn't have
enough to do both and we were just shy. So >> right that they said >> so in other words the 2450 was that little bit to finish up so we could get everything secured. >> So this is the second year in a row that conservation commission the conser
conservation commission has applied for and received land protection grants. uh from the Nashville River um wershed >> which is their wild and scenic program. >> Yes. Um
>> yeah, I mean that's >> so in that money >> the fourth >> um prop or these two years four properties and $40,000 in grants to over $40,000 pay for it.
>> What is this? What is the stewardship council land protection grant like what is that whole thing like do for the land like? So by deed by uh recording the plan of land the map with the registry
of deeds um if any of butters ever encroach onto the property um they there's a document that is um associated with our property that would be the
source um the reference source >> I see >> um that has been filed. So it makes a the legal side of things a little more clear if there's ever any questions
>> and and vice versa. So it helps for us not to encroach on those properties >> and that could include hunting as well. Oh wow. >> As part of that >> true forestry hunting plants. >> Yes. So, but it's kind of like a first step
of going down that bar stream management um side of things that we want to do um to help um keep our bars healthy >> to help prevent forest fires. I guess >> that too
>> that yeah that's important to me you know and and just having a sustainable plan um and it also generates a little bit of revenue um so that we can do things >> yeah a little bit every little bit
counts >> good um so 3.3 community preservation yes vote on it. Oh, we already did. Okay. >> That's why John votes >> Adam.
>> Okay. Um, Community Preservation Commission. Uh, the select board requests conservation commission to designate a member to be appointed to the CPC. Um, >> CPC.
>> I was looking at that. Now, what what would that entail? >> Yeah. What is the CPC? >> Community Preservation Commission. >> Yeah. Uh they um >> And is it just a representative of the
conservation commission? Do we have to name an actual commissioner to do it though? >> And like a voting member >> a voting member. >> Okay. >> I guess it's like how Mike is on the conservation restriction restriction. >> I guess it's like that, right?
>> Yeah. Uh yes. So bring it up. Um they actually um apply for and accept grants for open space and recreation programs
>> and housing and historic. >> It's a lot >> and historic. >> You should be able to pull it right up from the town's website. Yeah. I don't I think they need to Would it be on with that one? I don't
know if he's looking there. I'll look on the phone. So, yeah, we need to figure out someone that wants to represent the consensation commission on that commission. Um it's a commission that is newly formed. Um and
Hold on. Cindy, are you there? I see your hands raised. I think you can probably help us not butcher this. >> Yes. I want to try to help you explain what that is. Uh you probably all remember the CPA tax that we're all looking forward to paying and uh and when we get our tax bills in February
and May. And the CPC is the commission that's being put together on where to spend all that money. And there's the different the just the different ways that you did mention which was correct but they have to put a commission a a board together and it's designated on
what what boards are required to put somebody on that commission to decide on where that all that money is going to go. >> How many members is it? >> I don't remember. There's a bunch. >> I think it's like seven. I think three are public and then the rest are
representatives from a from commission, conservation commission probably uh >> and select board. Yeah. >> So would it be in our favor to have
somebody that has that is on those boards now to be going? No, I don't think so. At least that's my opinion. Sorry to just >> I would I'm not looking to I'm not I'm on five right now anyway. I don't want to go on board.
>> I was thinking about it if I knew what I was doing. >> It would that's not a bad position in my opinion. Thank you Cindy for helping us uh navigate that. Um
I don't think it's a bad thing. Uh, but I I guess who wants to throw their hat in? I'm a little >> I don't think I want to take on anything else right now. >> Really? I just don't I mean I'm on >> No, that's fine. Uh
>> three of us. >> I I can't I have too much in my life right now. >> Really? Um would you be interested Sandy if Pat doesn't want to do it or >> I was thinking it but I mean if Pat wants to
>> we don't want to you know >> do you know what the guidelines for the meeting times and how long is the board going to be together >> for so this is a a commission that will be with us >> well I hope forever
>> is it considered it's going to be considered a permanent >> yes >> although I hear some people are looking to >> cuz the board >> that's neither here nor there. Um >> it's it's I think it's a great thing.
>> I'll put a possibility on it because one of the boards that I'm on right now is ending in another month, two months. >> Are they looking for a decision tonight, Colby, or can we make a decision the beginning of January?
I think they make a decision at the beginning of January that if you have they were they are looking for it soon >> to put it to get the board put together soon and I didn't hear anything about it either. Um I >> unless we consider the possibility
>> I think it would be in my opinion you know we kind of shoved Mike into the conservation restriction and you I think >> oh I'm glad I'm on it. Yeah. No, that's it's >> What are you meeting once a once a month? It's not too time consuming. >> Once or twice a month.
>> Oh, you are doing once or twice a month? >> Yeah, but they're not marathon meetings like this. >> No. And they're productive uh interesting >> and basically just >> you know some outside activities.
Um, >> and doesn't the majority of it pertain to the soccer field or >> that's what it's the intent of it >> and it's not a permanent and something that will be once it's completed >> it'll be liquefied or
>> um so I think we can keep this until the >> town is on its hands right Um, I doubt turn back around. We don't need to go down there. >> I would doubt if they would meet until I
mean, what do we have? 14th. No, it's holiday season. Nobody wants to start a new committee. >> Right now, >> a lot of us don't even want to do the ones we're doing right now. >> So, we can all think about it. I I think I wouldn't shy away from it.
Sounds interesting. >> I'll see what it's about a little bit more. >> Do we know who the chairs? >> They won't we'll determine a chair once we get together. >> Once it gets put together. >> Yeah. >> But do we know what there is a member of
the select board? >> I don't know. I don't know who's been appointed. The only person I know that has been appointed is Kim Go. I don't know. Cindy, do you know of anyone else that has been appointed thus far? Kim Green was on the board already.
So you knew about this on >> I'm not sure. >> I think the boards are all putting this up on their agendas, you know, starting kind of this week. So over the next several weeks. I don't think there's I mean I'm not I can't speak for the board
the board of selectmen certainly, but I don't think that this is a a major rush. I think they're just trying to put something together. I don't think any money is going to come of this until almost this time next year. Right. No. Yeah. No, I I the only me or
the the atlarge member, however it's termed, uh the only person I saw so far was I believe Kino, but >> glad I could be >> for all that I know. Um,
so I think I'm I make a motion that we um >> table this to our January 14th meeting and then >> we can go from there. >> Yep. >> I think I'm going to ask around about it
more someone >> right tests before you jump in you know don't overextend yourself. I made a motion. Is there a second roll call? Yes. >> James D. Yes. James Gates. Yes. >> Petal. Yes. >> The Lord. Yes.
>> Marathon meeting. >> Oh, you have a pet. Brought his snacks. I They're delicious. Your son did a great job with them. Thank you. >> He's learning. >> I didn't want to say anything. All right. >> It's not my cooking.
>> I couldn't help. Um so 4.1 Natural River Wershed Association water quality testing of Adam Stam area repeated e Eoli levels above the state's beach each action value observed. Um
yeah. >> Yeah. We are >> 2024 we had higher um we had let's see over 50% of it was above. >> Wow. >> People still swim there. I heard I
thought people didn't swim there. >> No comment. Okay. >> Sorry. >> And where? >> Yeah, this is hard to read because there's um holes in red. So in 2024
there were 1 2 3 4 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 tests and one two three four five six of them. So just about just under 50% were um above no above >> above. Uh and then there was 13 tests
done in 2025 and there was one two three four five six seven so over 50%. >> And I guess my other question would be >> so this was so they did the this testing as a result of two failed years in a row
and they wanted to find out more about what type of ecoli they were finding and those results came from this sites here. This is their can't fit the whole thing in, but uh
these are the sites that they looked at. Uh you can see >> there's two more Ros back dam and Adam. >> Yep. The dam down here at the bottom. This is 119 going across. >> Yep. >> The peninsula and there Howard Park.
>> So they did a couple upstream. They um the neighborhood over here, >> Black Rock area. >> Yeah. And they're and they're finding out where more specifically the the is coming from >> where it's coming from. Okay.
>> And it's mostly from human be although there was some uh some from chicken and boine bovine cow cows but largely
it was human. So there's a housing development around there. >> It's just houses. It's not really >> a development really. >> It's a road with houses right side, left side, >> I guess. How do you define a development? >> Well, is it heavily like is it like
houses close together? I mean, is there a cluster of houses or or is it they separated out? I mean, >> minor traces of bine and chicken. Well, I was just wondering if this is largely human. >> Well, in in regards of what they do,
they're they're trying to isolate where areas are. Then they're going to go in and do >> title five septic testing. >> I guess what is the next step, >> right? >> Physician. If they know where it's coming from, they should define whether obviously they would
>> Oh, no. Let's keep going because there's actually >> Yeah, they found >> Oh, so they do have a >> You see that on the last page? >> Oh my god. Come on. >> Let me say what do you
>> So there are some indicators of >> more specific >> Yeah. >> places. In other words, they are able to dial. >> Hello. >> Not going to lie. So, if you can we pass this around.
>> Yeah. >> So, these two pages there is the test results and then >> in other words, I guess that indicates for us we have a document failure of a septic system. >> Septic or septics >> in the board of health.
>> It narrows it down pretty good. It narrows it down pretty good. >> Okay. >> So, it's a board of health responsibility. >> Yeah. That's in their wheelhouse, but at the same time, it's our water. >> Something to be aware of. Oh, okay.
That's pretty specific. This is just correspondence. This is part of forformational purposes. >> So is that like a pre preliminary thing like the findings and then the board of health has to proceed or >> I think they're getting fairly ind depth into this because they don't generally
do these Edna tests um until they know that there's repeated uh pollution. >> I see. I do not recall having seen any issues with E.oli in the river
before. This is fairly new. >> I only know what the report says going back to 2024. >> And it's interesting as to how they can go out and test the river as to boom. I mean, I like you said, it's kind of
obvious. We can see where the a source area. >> Yeah. So, what are the next steps for I know this is just correspondence. Um, >> so is this just information that we get CC down to from
health? >> What's going on? >> This is coming to us from Natural River. >> Okay. Okay. meaning they want everyone aware of it, everyone working on it.
Question, >> Mr. Barrett. >> Hello, gentlemen and ladies. >> Um, if you don't mind, I I just like to make a couple comments, >> please. >> Go ahead, >> about this. And and to answer Miss Lord's uh question about do people still
swim there? Uh, they do. Um, I I swim there quite often in the summertime down by Adam's Dam below the dam up at Black Rock. Um, and uh, I've swam in the river all my life. I've never had any bad
consequence from it, although maybe sometimes I've gotten the summer cold. Um but um you know I think part of the what's going on here and and certainly I think that it's good to identify what's causing this because my recollection is
you know we've had title five the improved title five now for about 30 years um which hopefully would have improved a lot of septic systems. um the Rosback farm which you know they used to spread the manure uh in the fields uh to
fertilize it from the from their cattle. Um I don't think that's happening anymore. I don't think the Rosbacks have very many cows left. >> Um >> no they still do. >> They have some but not like they used to. >> There's still um some that's my
father-in-law. >> All right. So how many do they have? Because I mean they used to have the the barn there. They they used to have >> 30, right? >> Uh no, there was 250 head and now it's >> okay. So that was that was when in my
youth and we swam in the river all the time and there was never a problem. I think some of what's going on too is that they the state has raised the standards or lowered the threshold for what's considered acceptable. Um, just a a little anecdote. My wife went went up
to go bring the grandkids swimming up at Damon Pond and they said, "Well, no, you can't swim here. It's too high algae or or bacteria." And the the guy that was there said commented the the I think the D the DCR guy that was there,
he said, "If we had these standards back in when I was a kid, we never were would have learned how to swim." Um, so it may be you know, it's it's better to have higher standards and and not risk the
fact that some people might get sick uh because of the you know, EC coli and stuff. Um I think it's definitely a good idea to um um investigate and find out, you know, what's causing it. Uh but uh I would definitely
bemoone the fact if there was any sort of directive to say no swimming uh in in the Squanakook. So that that's about uh I I guess I would ask that they um I can't I don't see what you guys have but um
>> as far as identifying the sources, but certainly it's worth investigating, find out what's what's causing them. >> Col's computer died and he he they have it narrowed down. Um, but I I think that's
>> and and that might not be anything new folks can do anything about. It's probably more of a case for the board of health. Um, and I know the town has had in the past programs to help people fund the repair of their septic systems. >> Um, and maybe a a push towards doing
that would would help the situation. And I can at least say I mean John I'm in West Towns and so I I'm across where Rossbacks for many years had a lagoon for the materials out there. >> No, that wasn't them. That was good
party and it was the other guys. >> What do you mean? >> Roberts. Was that Robert? >> Robert wasn't. You know it wasn't. >> No, >> never mind. Jimmy, go ahead. You You know everything. You got it figured out. But the lagoon has since closed down and
has been deconstructed now. So they're not using, as you said, the manure out in those areas and those >> it is 100% reduced. >> Oh yeah. And so that's why it amazes me
because I mean we swim in the river all the time as as kids. >> Always at the stone bridge swimming. Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid, I we were always in the river. Always. >> Right. >> There's what we used to put out for
manure. It's it's fractional. >> So, Mhm. So, what this where does this go from here? >> It doesn't go anywhere. What the hell? I wouldn't discount the reports.
>> You would what? Now I wouldn't discount or >> this piqued our interest in August when you brought it up to us. >> So this the reports when they we started to receive them.
>> So it it's interesting that they were able to narrow it down. So, >> what did you mean by discount the reports? Mean that they're incorrect or they're >> No, to just simply minimize it because you haven't gotten sick from swimming in the river before.
>> Not to ignore it. >> All right. >> Now, does the board of health get the same kind of >> alert as the latest? >> I agree. I >> um Yes, the board of health also gets the cop. >> Oh, absolutely. No, I could see that.
And that's on >> then it's right. >> Yeah. I mean they it's not rocket science. They can figure it out. Is Yeah. >> So Bank Terrace >> 4.2 uh planning board approval not
required ANR for um 198 North Road. Nothing besides just correspondence. And then Adam's dam grant update. Division of Ecological Restoration has approved grant for preliminary design services. Kobe, what does that entail? Just so
that it's um >> I have no idea what that's about. >> Yeah. So, it's just that we have got approved for uh this grant to um do the
preliminary work, design work on the Adams Dam. Uh they're going to look at it as as potential um potential um dam to remove
>> breach. I'm talking about the department ecological resources >> restoration >> restoration >> and that and they're going to work in conjunction I assume with fishing game too >> because fishing game's already approaching the BFW dam to breach that
and bring it back to natural. >> I don't know. I just know the deer has sent us for a letter. No, they're going to they're going to stop pulling permits because Fishing Game owns that dam. >> No, we're talking.
>> We're talking Adam for though. >> I know. I know what you're talking. >> Is there a trestle right around there or something? >> Mhm. >> And this is not for the removal of the dam. This is to see if it's uh >> viable >> viable appropriate to remove
>> feasible for the the water gate retention. There's a lot of different pieces and parts about this. >> There's siltation of the river sedimentation. Um and there is there are ecological concerns that
are going to be asked the questions are going to be asked about the ecological benefit of it and biological the sedimentation water temperature um being a >> cold water fisheries are going to want piece of knowledge of it. Yeah, because actually
>> so there's study there's studies associated with it and then there's public comment period as well >> and like I was saying cold water fisheries would that affect what they're talking goes hand in hand. >> Yeah. Well fisheries in general as a
fish route or obstruction from fish movement and other amphibians. >> Now these dams in towns and they've been here for a very long time. Correct. >> Correct. Uh early 1900s. I have historical documents about it, but I
don't have them on at my fingertips right now. >> I'm just curious why why look into these now as opposed to like I mean they've been here for a long long time >> for the ecological improvement of the
>> It also can help mitigate flood hazards. >> Are we talking about rem end up removing all of them in town? >> Nope. No, >> just Adam Stam. >> There'll be no place looking any others. >> Uh, well, they they they've approached it, but
>> meaning approached what not the stone in West Towns and >> they asked about the the stone bridge. >> Someone was saying that that trestle is historically, you know, it's >> the wooden trestle, the train trestles.
Well, the on Adam the Adams someone I don't know like >> so the train trestle is an Adams dam. The train trestle is the train trestle. >> That is that is a historic structure. Yes. >> Okay. That has nothing to do with that. >> No. >> Okay.
>> So Adam Stan was built in the 1800s for a sawmill. Um >> that would have been >> one of the many sawmills. >> Yeah. I was just going to say along with that could have been an Fezant era
loopy fees I don't remember that's going way back and there was a lot so >> extrapolating into the other dam say like in the harbor would that affect >> the gris that's the dam was there for
the gris so how could you do that like take >> that was no I know that but I'm just because I saw something a mass double but I did look at that as far as the dams and they they do want to start removing dams everywhere. >> They're doing a lot of studies in on the
rivers about removing certain dams. I mean Adam's Dam has been in decay for quite some time. It's not anywhere where it used to be. That used to have a 4ft extension up. I >> was going to say is there much of it even left? It's to a point where it's
just the remaining concrete. So, it doesn't serve purpose. Purpose served years ago when it was holding retaining water for a sawmill function. >> It's similar to the BFW dam which doesn't do much. It's just a head wall that
>> that holds water for when they were swimming. >> But you look but you look at >> that was made for activities for swimming for you know >> I think no I think that was another sawmill >> was it? It could it may very well have been something else. >> Somebody said it was maybe for ice
making too at one time. >> I think that was part of it too. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I mean >> so and then the harbor dam there's there's flood control. There's a lot of stuff to that where that doesn't make sense or canal street that would make sense because there's >> you couldn't touch that because that's
part of >> and that's our opinion though. Isn't that HMV's dam to begin with? >> That's privately owned. >> So is an Adams. Adams is owned by the town. That's >> okay.
>> Um. Wow. >> So education. I'm going to move along. It's >> I had my hand up. I don't know if chairman you're gonna recognize me. Uh >> I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Uh I I I guess um as I think Jim
was saying that that there isn't much left really to this dam. Um the the flashboards washed out about 10 or 15 years ago and that used to raise the river upstream. I'd say yeah two to four feet higher than it is now. Uh again,
when I was a kid, we mostly swam at Black Rock and you could jump off the rock, not Black Rock itself, but the the rock beach head there and and dive in and jump in the river swimming. And uh now I I wouldn't do that. Maybe unless
it's like the spring spring high tide sort of thing because the the level has gone down so much with the loss of the flashboards for the dam that um it's it's really not that much of an impediment. But I think if you take out what's left of that dam, you're going to
dra drastically change the Squanuk, at least upstream, uh you're going to further reduce the swimming hole at black at Black Rock to to to I I think it'll be the extent of it will eliminate it as a swimming hall and it certainly will affect the swimming hole that's
down well at the trestle because I I still go swimming at the trestle, too. The trestle is maybe about a 100 yards away from the dam. Um, >> correct. >> And um, uh, as you know, the trestle was the the abutments to the trestle were impacted and washed out about I think 10
years ago. Um, and they they the railroad cut the remaining part of the trestle off and put barricades on it, which is unfortunate. Um, I'm I'm hoping that if the rail trail goes through there, they'll restore the trestle and uh and make it functional again. But
that's be, you know, not for the topic tonight. But um I I guess uh Colby came to our meeting as I'm on, as you may know, I'm on the cemetery and park commission. Um and the that side the east side of the um dam uh east side of
the Squanuk rather was uh acquired by the town in the 40s and dedicated for recreational purposes. Um, we have never promoted it as a a park, but we do call it Adam's Dam Park. Um, and it's it's a
natural setting. That one of the things of our philosophy is is to keep things natural. Keep we keep try to keep Howard Park natural. It's not a a playground, but it is a natural area, and it's a it's a great area for swimming and fishing. Um, I frequently have fished
you. And I'm not going to tell you my secrets for catching trout out of the Adams Dam uh area, but um you see people catching fish there all the time. So I I don't I think when Kobe met with us,
I we maybe gave him a warm welcome because I think we were unanimous in objecting to the idea of removing Adam's Dam. Um and I would echo that sentiment. I know we um at our last meeting we uh one of our members was going to draft a
letter to the selectman to uh you know I guess object to the removal of the dam. Um and to to the extent that this is looking into it I I guess it doesn't do any particular harm but I'm afraid that sometimes these studies have a way of having a pre-ordained conclusion. Um,
and I'd like the commission to to take that seriously in in mind. Uh, that um, you know, in terms of propagation of fish, um, you know, the the the river pretty much is is not going to be turned
into a a trout brook. Well, maybe that's what the intention is, but removing one dam is probably not going to do that, but it will negatively affect the the historic area. Uh, as you mentioned, uh, Jim, the, uh, it was a Adams Mill was a
competitor of fees, um, in barrel making, uh, and, uh, there's a, there's a a couple tragedies related to what used to be the spillway there because >> Adam's uh, son, uh, drowned in the
spillway. And then some years later, they found Mr. Adams had walked off. We walked through the factory and then walked off. And later they found him in the same uh spillway uh had drowned. So uh that's a bit morbid part of this.
It'd be better if this was Halloween time because um that's one of the legends at least. But it's not the legend, it's the history. But again, >> it's a >> it's a great place to go swimming. I I mentioned earlier um I've taken my
grandkids down there and uh friends and I gone down there and you see other people swimming there and uh people enjoy it and I think if that dam was removed that would remove that swimming hole below the dam and you would really turn the Squanook from from the stone
bridge uh to the harbor and to a uh a brook. Um and I I don't think that's what we want to see. No, John, I agree with what you're saying. That would be no different than if they would have removed the bridge, the dam at the at the stone bridge down
in West Townsen. >> That would incredibly impact the dynamics all the way up to Ash Swamp in West Townsen. >> That would it that whole ecosystem would literally disappear. It's that holds
that whole headwater all the way back up in into Ash Swamp. I mean, those were the areas of I don't know wherever since I was a little kid. I mean, we we swam in all those areas. Lock Brook, Willie Brook, Witchbrook, on
and on it goes, you know. So, one of those dams terrible. It would detrimental. >> Yeah, that that's my feeling, Jim. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can think of a million reasons why they shouldn't and
not one good one that they should, you know. I mean, that holds a lot of water for flood control. All the wildlife that is up in the ash swamp in that river area is incredible. A lot of people don't realize how much is out there in
West Towns. And >> once the once the study is completed. Who makes the final decision? >> That would go to either Well, I know the one on at the BFW, if they breach that, that's going to be through fish and game
because they own property and they want it breached. >> Probably a town meeting. >> Town meeting vote, I assume. >> Yeah, that I don't I'm not going to, >> but that's down the road. >> I don't want to make assumptions. Uh I
think we John, I appreciate Oh, yeah. handst. >> Oh, yeah. All right. >> Well, I I should go down and really check it out myself, but you said that the swimming hole dam is the swimming hole below the dam would be destroyed.
>> Wouldn't the swimming hole be above the dam where the water's hauled back? >> Well, there's there's two swimming holes that there's Well, if you will, and and I'll I'll just make another observation years ago before the flashboards were out. you if you went swimming at the trestle for one thing, you could jump
off the trestle and I even dove off of it. It's about 25 ft high, but you would never do that now. >> And this the be there was a nice sandy beach. They put in conservation steps near the trestle at one point and that may have affected it too. But I think
that with the with the dam essentially the dam being out because effectively it is out now. um the the water in the spring comes rushing through and it scour the the riverbed and where it used to be a nice sandy beach area by the
trestle. Uh it's now all rocky. Um this you still have the sand on the beach side or the the side of the river, but in the river itself you it's tricky to get out there and get out to a depth where it's swimmable and um and there it's nice and sandy too in the middle of
the river. So, I'm not sure. I don't I don't know why it's doing that, but I think it has something to do with the dam being out. Um, and as as far as the the cold water fisheries, I mean, the dams create nice cold pools for the fish to to go in. It also, I think, airates
the water. uh you know so again I'm not a fisheries expert but I know they've often said that but I've never really seen any hard evidence that that turning it into a brook is going to make it better for fishing.
>> So I'm not familiar with dam construction but you say splashboards >> flash what I think they're called is flashboards. They're basically there used to be uh uh basically pipes driven
into the concrete foundation of the dam. Um and then in between those pipes there would be boards that would build up the water level um and and pounding the water further upstream so that you know
at the trestle the water would be about three or four feet deeper than it is now. And consequentially up up the Black Rock it would be deeper. Um >> okay I think it so it might be famili it might be similar to the dam that's at
Pearl Hill. >> Yes. >> Where it's boards sort of set in the >> Yeah I think that's a smaller dam I think but um about the same concept. Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's just in reference is a height increase. In other words, they would use those boards to control the water
levels. Come fall time, come winter time, they would pull the boards so they wouldn't have so much water back up in flooding. And if they knew we were coming into a drought, they would put more boards on to hold more water. >> Yeah, >> they were, you know, >> Kobe, I have a question. I'll direct
you. Um, this is something my husband was saying that you would have to get rid of all the dams all the way through towns and and in Groten just to to get it to to for the fish and stuff. And who's to say it would even like work?
>> Well, I disagree with that sentiment. >> Okay. >> I think it's kind of defeist. >> Okay. That's just like throwing your hands up and not trying to >> improve upon a situation. And I got to tell you, I I love history. I especially
love logging history. Um, Spike Boots, by the way, is wonderful book if you want to read that. But I think that the ecological history should be considered as well. There's nothing natural about this dam.
It's a I understand that it's a a setting that is nice to go to, but there's zero function to that dam. >> I'm going to you're you're I I'm going to acknowledge. Um and if people would
like, I can invite a representative from the Native Fish Fish Coalition that serves all of New England. um and we can have a discussion with them about benefits or um non-benefits to cold
water fisheries. Um but I hear everything everyone's saying and it's all being recorded and shared. Um thank you Cindy for sharing this. I I It
is 9:30. We haven't had one like this in a while. >> No. and I appreciate everyone. Um I I but this is a this is going to be a
hot topic when it when it starts. >> Okay. >> So I John, I appreciate you joining us and sharing some of the history um to everything um because it helps it helps understand it better. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. And I'm
sorry if my comments made you guys go long because I you know I know meetings go long especially at this hour of the day is not fun. So thank you. Thank you for hearing me. >> No it's fun. >> It was important information.
>> We enjoy it. We always have fun. We got snacks. >> Think of this. At least it wasn't like a town meeting >> or there >> or the uh historic society meetings. Okay, we're moving on. >> Okay, change the subject.
>> Um, MACC oh continues to have classes. >> Wow. Yeah. >> Items for discussion at the next meeting. Um, >> I got one for you. >> What? >> I got one for items for discussion at >> Okay. U, so there's the 10225 meeting
minutes and then the CPA appointee. Um, what else you got? um working on a biodiversity grant for the air for the forest cutting for the area at meeting house park. We're working on um getting guidance as
to what that what the that area can provide um >> different perspectives um uh after we do the timber harvest and there's money there for planting and developing it >> into a naturalized habitat. I don't want
to I don't want to end the the the sentence with >> and that can be and that can look like many things and that's what the guidance and experts can >> so they can you're working on the grant to provide a plan or a plan and
implementation of the plan. So the application has been submitted for monies to provide us with the expertise um a person or okay >> team of people to >> person yeah wildlife bi biologist type
um to tailor tailor the area to like something that is needed in this they'll look at the surrounding area and habitats around um that that uh timber cut and they'll come up with what the most appropriate thing is. You know,
what's lacking for habitat in that area. >> In other words, they probably would do a little soil analysis to see what grow, you know, species overview, etc. All right. >> When So, it's been submitted. >> It has. Yeah.
>> Should we have voted on that? >> It wasn't submitted by us. >> Oh, submitted by the grant administrator. Huh. >> Which is in what? Land use office. >> Yeah. No, it's appreciated. Yeah,
appreciate it. But we also need to know stuff. >> Um, >> it eliminates it to the table sooner or later. >> Yeah. Tell me get a spot now. >> You know, it all gets here sooner or later.
>> So, I understand though sometimes France come across quick >> or last minute and you have to be reactive quickly. So things got rolling and just went with it. >> We're not We appreciate the effort with that. >> I understand what you're saying though.
I hear you. >> Um and I think it's great because it's we're we're not just going to let that go stagnant. And so awesome. >> We would have already I assume usually the forest will go out and do a replanting. >> No,
>> that not usually. It's just >> expect it to grow back naturally. depends on what's there for regeneration already, what they want, what the property owner wants to do with that property, what they want it to look like, what the priorities are for the future. So,
>> okay. I I think that's a great plan. Property owners are us. >> So, there's there's no downside to having plan. >> Okay. So, there might be an issue in how it was >> I don't think there's an issue. I just think as a commission
>> Yeah. communication is so >> we all know because it's it's just it's good for us to be able to >> what? >> No, I I think it's great that it's another thing that we can say we've done or you've done or we've all done. I hope
so. >> Yeah. sense. >> So it wouldn't be to necessarily replace what would be missing like when the machining machinery goes through >> it would be like what they think might
grow. >> Not nec there's a ton of abilities for them to go out with the bioscientist to figure out. I mean they'll go out and do all kinds of breakdowns on it. You know what soils like what will grow >> make recommendations on what it could be when it grows up. They're going to make
a garden and be even when they're done. They'll design it perfectly. Beautiful. >> Recreation as part of it that they can what it can serve as a recreational area. >> What's going to be a hybrid tree that's going to get
>> Thank you for staying on top of it and pushing to get it done. And uh it's it's a value to have plans like that. >> Y >> totally. Next meeting's January 14th and January 28th, 2026.
>> I know. I can't believe >> it's over. >> I Who'd like to make a motion to adjurnn at 9:35? >> I know you're done to make a motion. >> I don't get who makes it. I'm leaving regardless of if they >> I'll make a motion. Was that the motion >> to adjourn
>> for January at 9 at 9:35? I make the motion. >> Is there a second? >> Second. Roll call vote starting with >> James Thing. Yes. >> James Gates. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Thank you everyone.