all right can Can you hear me no we can okay no echo hey excuse me this is Todd Malansen yes can you guys hear me we can hear you but we can't Oh there you are okay i was going to say we can hear you but we
couldn't see you but there you are okay i I have to be I have to I I have to be very very brief i am on the site of a main break so um um so I'm my guys are like really
deep in the ground so I got I'm Anyways um I just wanted to state in looking at in looking at the maps or I didn't know if you opened the meeting or not i sent an email to uh Veronica and Nelson and stuff um but I gotta go so I just want to be
on and be on the record that looking at where the water supply land is where potential wellhead protection land is i oppose the transfer of this property to fish and game if it is it is a detriment to the town because it does affect the
ability of the water department to pull the um to set up and develop the land as a a public water supply it is designated the budding land is designated as public water supply and that's actually under the control of the board of water commissioners so I just wanted to get on
and say that um and I I I'll listen briefly if someone has something to say but I need to get off and get back with my crew okay the fee the the fee does not transfer to fish and game only the
CR and the CR will be I I can't I I I cannot I I I I have talked to uh people that I know in water resource management on the public works on on the public water supply land and I I cannot agree
to the conservation restriction i'm sorry well the um Ann would you like to speak to this nope okay i will I will just say that um the the conservation restriction
that piece of the property can be if that is the case it can be um uh the bounds of the conservation restriction can um exclude that piece of the property it depends on how I'm sorry i I
I'm I'm sorry i am adamantly opposed to it it is a detriment to the town and its future development of a water supply i I I cannot agree to it and so my vote would be no okay thank you
yep thank you um All right i'm I'm I'm gonna open the meeting now so I don't know if that counts at all but um I'd like to open the meeting at 7:06
uh for the uh conservation restriction committee for um Squanook Meadows so could I have a roll call of all those present and I will first note that uh Todd Meansen was on briefly prior to the
start of the meeting to um voice his opposition to the CR being put on the at least the water piece of the property it probably means all of it but I don't know why that would be um I can see
holding out the water piece of it the part of the property that is water supply and designated as such so there's probably a couple ways that could be done so um anyway roll call vote of
those present um on the um from the uh committee selena Thomas present mike potent emily you need to unmute
[Music] and again I'll note that Todd Manson was here prior to the meeting but he is no longer on the call um all right i'm going to announce that the meeting is being um recorded on Zoom it will be updated to you uploaded to YouTube are
there any other parties recording okay hearing and seeing none are there any additions or deletions to the I have no additions or deletions but does anybody else have any additions or deletions to the um
agenda all right um everybody should have received the minutes for the March 20th 2025 um meeting um is there a motion to accept the minutes and any discuss
um so moved is there a second second so Selena um made the motion and Michael seconded is there any discussion on the minutes for March 20th
um my only discussion is my name is misspelled but that's okay how do you spell your name is it S A S A L I N A did I have E N A i had gone through actually you have it both ways in here
or something really yeah we will correct that it's okay ina ina okay um any other comment on the on the minutes all right all those in favor of
um accepting the minutes we need to have a roll call vote so starting in the room with Selena Selena Thomas yes mike Fox said yes veronica Kelly yes emily Fine yes all right thank you
everybody all right um on March 20th we went over we talked about the history of um this process this this committee I will again say is formed in order to put a CR on the property and that was
approved um through the conservation commission and the um and the board of selectment at the time um the the uh TEASA um lease was written
based on that with a three-year three-year and three-year extension and with the understanding that um the organization would be expanding the fields and the area that is the soccer
facility and um those those plans came forward to the board of selectman was it January or So it was after I mean might have been dece December January time frame I don't remember the exact date um because the town had to sign off on
allowing the engineering because the town is the property owner and so uh that was done and the question was what happened to the CR and consequently this committee became um uh came into being
so I had sent everybody the um the minutes of the meetings that I could find and you could look at the recordings of all um I guess are there any comments on that
well I wasn't sure if I go ahead should have added this to the agenda or not but um with some trepidation that I might be opening a can of worms here um I'm wondering you know I've been on
the board relatively short time steep learning curve starting to get the the hang of it starting to see the big picture and the more I thought about it it seemed to me that um the conservation commission's
decision to go along with the CR three and a half years ago um the commission is almost totally changed now in personnel i'm wondering if it might be a good idea to go back and see what the
commission feels about it now um I can see some advantages of perhaps the commission um holding the deed for the property so I did find I went back through my um so on that I went back through my um notes because there were
and James you were present at the meetings there was one on November 14th 20 um 21 and September 21st i think it was 2021 or 2022 might have been 2022 november
10 the one that you gave us one of them where you gave us right but there were other meetings there were two other meetings that were held with NHSP um I think um I have Misty Han Mike Jones James Gates Emily Fine and me
October 14th that was when we walked the fields no we were here we were here and then there was another one held on March 30th the following year so it must have been 2021 i think it was when Emily was trying to
do the when you guys were trying to do the uh conservation management yeah the the Japanese mw weed removal and the um and the management we took out the small trees so yeah it was to all plan that
and the discussion was also around the options um for what could be done um and if if the so the option went to the conservation commission land transferred in fee to the conservation
commission with a paragraph added to the deed and this is from Mike Jones to make it article 97 land and follow up um and I I actually I I have actually changed my opinion
on that matter um because I I I do recall that conservation commission really doesn't have an interest in um I don't want to say dealing with it but holding the deed um but since then I
have um rethought a lot of it and seen what we can do with properties in town where we've had them surveyed and found and um ma attempt to manage them better um
excuse me I have no idea who's speaking um go ahead um could you come to the table James so that you will appear oh okay it's so that you will appear up here um during that discussion um and it was
again a different commission at the time um you know we and different administration in the town um we really didn't feel the um we didn't feel that we would be the best fit um now since then we've had
incidents where we've had dirt bikes on the property um that I've been able to help mitigate relatively quickly um other times and I know there's other properties in town that are stateowned
that are more difficult the state to manage um because of their lack of resources you know all the environmental officers will spread thin um but I feel that um it should go back to conservation for discussion now that
things are moving forward i think there was there was what did I do i think mine needs to mute all right on this one
on your computer and and Veronica it's Kevin Craraven um I'm on Zoom at some point if I could speak to this item as well i I want to right now's going to
speak um I'm not sure what happened does my voice echo if I speak okay uh could could we keep the audio open for the uh for for the
um the main computer and everyone else unless you're speaking everyone else muted thank you yes yes are we echoing again no okay so anyway what the notes I have are
if it's um we can either it's an either or and if it transfers there has to be a deed language that makes it article 97 land um a conservation and management plan
put in place for it um and uh let me see formal gravel habitat [Music] um and there has to be enforcability so um and at least as far
as I know at least three of you were on the conservation commission at that time again you know there was I think only four at the time and I have changed my opinion so
why why is it different now than it was then we've had those incidents where we've had people come in with wheeled vehicles and motorized vehicles that I I don't think the state has the resources to
um enforce and again people change their minds every day you know you you learn different things you um you experience have different experiences that um you know change the way you look at things
if if I may ask you mentioned James that you mitigated the um legal off-road vehicles um how How did you mitigate it we're attempting
to with signage and if I receive a report I'm able to respond right away we've had people go down there on Saturdays during soccer games and I'm the lucky one that gets the phone call
and if if I could um Veronica I would like to speak um um I'd like to have talk first and James is on the conservation commission so I'll come back to you okay i just I'm
on hold from school committee so I wanted to to speak and leave i'm wondering if I can talk to it also yeah i would like to hear from the committee so okay um it's my understanding
um unfortunately that that this committee is made to develop the CR so if a decision not to do a CR is to be made I don't believe it's in our
purview to do that um I do know that James has has been a huge help to us in recent years um they recently put up um signs to try to keep people off of the
slopes um I know that that when um people have been um using either bikes up and down the slopes or or other vehicles that James has gotten the police involved and um gotten them to
stop my only concern is that the makeup of the conservation commission changes um almost yearly and it's made up of all
volunteers so I'm just concerned that on in the long term it might be it might be better to have a CR although um I again I just
don't know that it's in our per purview to change what we were brought here to do so I that could be a problem i would agree i
know you don't want me to speak which is I really it's it's it's relevant though Veronica so that you all can frame this we I I entered a letter for you um the selectman the commission recreation i
sent it to Todd i sent it to James um I haven't seen a letter okay um and that's why I'm jumping on so it is on behalf of my dad that he is writing with his deepest concern the current discussions
to place the conservation restriction on Squanook Meadows Holly's playground the parcel that he donated on behalf of the family to the town of Townsen and it was made in good faith that the town would maintain control of the property um at
time there was not a conservation restriction committee in place and that his intent was to give it to the town um given the conservation commission was and is sustaining committee whose local knowledge and stewardship is trusted to balance the ecological preservation with
community needs they should be the one with responsibility um any proposed transfer of oversight to an outside entity included mass division of fish and wildlife is not in keeping with the spirit of donation while I understand and appreciate the role of conservation restriction in protecting
ecological value I did not envision this parcel being removed from local jurisdiction or burden by permanent restrictions that could limit the town's future flexibility in maintaining its resources i'm especially concerned that such actions may discourage other land owners from considering similar gifts in
the future look stewardship has always been the hallmark of conser um conservation success in towns in we turn oversight to the influence of an outside agency we undermine both community involvement and the very spirit of generosity that allows towns like ours
to protect our open space respectfully urge the select board and conservation restriction committee to reconsider the current direction and ensure the conservation commission is the oversight entity please explore the options that maintain the parcel under the care custody and control of the town of
Townsen as originally intended and with the conservation commission being oversight rather than transferring stewardship to a committee not elected by our community members that includes the state agency thank you for attention to this matter and your ongoing commitment to preserving town's natural
spaces in a way that honors the trusts of its residents um so that's from my dad um and as one of the you know remaining kids in the family um and having my own personal opinions
of the lack of maintenance and attention that the state has of some of its properties that it owns in town nothing against the folks in the room um that this was given to the town of Townsen and the care and trust of the towns and
town of towns and residences and those elected um whether it be the the boards of selectment or the conservation commission and it was to the town of Townsen and you might remember that there was many discussions back in the time about the water um because
originally um the deed was going with the water rights remaining with the family but we did turn the water rights over to the town as well um so if the town's changing its decision that you don't want the land you can give it back to my dad the town still retains
ownership of the property i believe that's a misunderstanding of what conservation restriction is the fee I I understand but you're giving control to an outside entity no it's not control it
is um uh let me see how I can put this it's not control you work in concert with um an agency when you have a conservation restriction to um make sure
that the values of the property are retained there in no way would I want the water rights to go away um I it's an an added layer to make sure that the property stays in the way that it is
intended to be by the owner of the property and the ownership does not change the oversight does the oversight is influenced by the state and not by the town to which it was given in the intent
i um I see a um a member with a hand up so Emily go ahead um the the conservation restriction um what we would do is we would write
down just in the protected area what activities are allowed and what activities are not allowed and this is and and that would be something that we the committee we of the town of Townsend
would be deciding and all that the holder of the conservation restriction does is make sure one that that those stipulations that we decide about not
them us what we decide about um are being followed that's all it does so it doesn't give them control it it it it does if they're involved and
I've seen what happens with the you know the other pieces of it so I just want have to disagree about that because they don't have control we have the control we the writers of the
conservation restriction um so so so thank you Emily for for saying that and I hope that you can understand that we the donors are hoping that you leave it with the conservation
commission and not a state entity to have any influence so I just wanted to drop in give the letter from my dad let you know um my personal thoughts as being a family member i know you have other folks to to speak at your meeting um but it certainly will give a
precedent to um the flavor of our community and those that choose to participate in uh generous donations to to really just see how this response is given so thank you for letting me speak um Madam Chair and um I'll be kind of
listening um you know as you proceed with your meeting okay I see that Ann has her hand up so um Ann Gagnen would you like it to be yeah I just um wanted to
uh find out was was this land donated or was it required as part of a cluster development i'm a little confused i thought Mr craraven had developed the the residential culde-sac that abuts this
property was that part of this donation are you asking me that yeah well whoever might know my understanding was that it was part of an open space preservation
development that it was the open space required to be um set aside as part of that process okay because that's what I thought um so I was a little confused when
um Kim mentioned that her dad had donated the the property so it was required as part of that subdivision development correct um can you hear me
um that is my understanding okay that was my understanding too i just wanted to confirm that and I didn't want to say anything uh to Todd earlier um because it sounded like he was in the
middle of a a water break crisis so he he probably wasn't of a frame of mind to discuss the details um but if fish and wildlife were to hold
the CR we could make arrangements so that a a well may be able to be put in or maybe we would exclude that portion and have someone else hold the CR on that portion
um so there are different ways around that in terms of um enforcing you know uh illegal activity on the property we don't we don't own the property we have no rights over the property right now so we really
can't be doing anything uh in terms of enforcement but if we were to hold the CR then obviously we we would so I do I did uh I just have one other thing to add i did reach out to the
water superintendent today but I didn't realize that their office closes early um I think that they uh leave at 1 now so uh I did leave a message and I sent an email asking about
um the water master plan or management plan um and this site in particular but obviously I haven't heard back yet okay all right
um I I don't think writing a CR precludes the town from also monitoring the the land i don't think it it's the town still owns the land with a conservation
restriction the um the the flavor of the conservation commission goes in and out uh depending on who's on the board or the data pardon me or the day of the week the day
of the week so uh a CR doesn't um at least in my experience I have never seen where people have you don't give up the land you still are the owner you're the
holder of the fee you you are using the property you are there it's a layer of protection so that and it it is in perpetuity so it means going forward um there is an entity and you want to
have an entity that's going to be around for a while um that that's going to follow with the land to be there and making sure that the um the interests of the owner
are being honored so I I don't think there's any um intent at least on the part of the town to stop it to be being used for youth activities i think we're very much
in favor of having that continue and we're very much in favor in the um the uh modifications that are being made the I mean there's nothing nothing negative
about that and I think um you know we as far as the water goes you want to be able to keep that as a well site so you can just either keep that out of the conservation restriction or write the
restriction so that it is an allowed use for the future um so I from my perspective and we are the CR committee if we want to change that I would want something from the conservation
commission to the board of selectment i mean I I think I agree with Emily i don't know how everybody else feels about how the intent of this committee is to write a CR if there is um some reason not to um
then different you know different story but needs to come in a different path to go back to the um select board and request that the conservation commission makes a plan re-evaluates makes a plan
and I would want to have talks with so that's a whole different story from from this this is this is the way and there was a lot of thought that went into it you know two or three years ago as to what was going to happen year it's taken
years of planning and right trying to just figure out the the path to take because you know Emily's put in all this work for for and and you have too with um the stuff that you've done the past couple of years when I thought the CR
was going to roll along I didn't but realize it wasn't it's a lot of work and you know I know Colby's here as our agent um you know we can add that to our next agenda um um but discuss if that's the if that's
the how you see fit well if it was a viable alternative in November 21 it would seem to still be a viable alternative now here's the thing when you are on the board the board changes
yeah you can do that come up here if you're going to talk again though James so that you can be on the recording and people know who you are um the the the thing is um uh if there is something signed by
the board of selectmen and the board of selectman changes the things that were signed by the prior board are still in place they don't change because the board changes and so um when when TASA came
forward with the we need to have this sign so we can move forward with our permits it was like great where is the CR that was part of everything and it it got dropped for whatever reason but I
the decision at least in my mind is still the decision um and all of these things even you know Kim coming forward as the person who developed the property
and and this was the set aside open space and there were specific things that needed to be done on that site um and they have been so and they will continue to be so I guess
I see CRS in a different light from you know I always go back to the West property there's a CR on the on the Christmas tree farm on Boutell Road new England Forestry Foundation and now North County Land Trust are co-holders
of that it hasn't changed the use of the um of the property but it did get monitored regularly and there was an encroachment situation um a few years back that was handled
through the CR holder so it wasn't a um a negative for I don't see CRS as a negative i see them as a way to um ensure that the property stays in perpetuity as you want it to be so it's
it's just a different and and it was a viable alternative it was just that the decision was made so how many times do you remake the decision is is what it comes down to i mean it was it was well thought out it was more than one meeting
it was talks you know with like what we're doing now um to figure out how to go forward and um the you know I don't know
so any questions about what happened historically because that's the agenda item selena were you able to find the things that you asked about um I went back and I found a bunch of stuff so I was able to watch all the videos of the meetings
that were sent to us and then I found a couple others that were further discussions so it was conservation commission or um I found one that was a board of selectment i didn't find the conservation commission one but that's okay all right so I went through and I
watched all of them and took notes and um I think all of the history makes sense now good all right well that's good
um so um how do we proceed i mean we are the CR committee so the question is um should we uh you know there's I there's work that's going to be done on the part of fish and wildlife we do not have
today and Ann could maybe talk to this more the the sample CR that um we had hoped to have today but she did look into the hunting thing did you all get the hunting map no okay that's something that I can share yeah the um because
that was definitely a concern yeah so there's that one up here while I hunted them now in the past we conservation has received uh inquiries about hunting on town
property and it's allowed it is so hunting is technically allowed currently allowed at the soccer now does that mean anyone does it um I don't know i don't but you
know it's it's the sound of a season for you know because you can hear it all over town so right and I I am not at all opposed to hunting i'm wondering about including something about needing to be such a
distance from the soccer fields specifically oh yeah right now you have to be so far from a dwelling or a road right so like because we do play in the fall which is the biggest hunting season in
the area I think here too um so yeah the hunting maps would be good because I wasn't sure what was already not like where the boundary line is for the existing hunting
are you going to share that map Veronica yeah I'm looking for it right now um do you know what date you sent that to me on i don't it was a while ago sorry and I'm not and I'm not at the office or at
home i'm sitting on someone's front step so I can't I can't look it up and provide it i think if memory serves me correct and we can confirm this you got it i I do have it yeah let me get it um
I'm going to need to be able to screen share from my computer um Hartley so if you can um give me permission to do that that would be great um and Ann if you have anything
else that you want to talk about while I get this roll yeah I I believe that it will show that the soccer fields are already within the hunter uh the hunting safety zone because of the distance the
setback requirements for um setbacks from roads and houses and so as you can as you can see that hashed area is the is the hunting setback
the purple that's not hatched the pink that's not hatched is the property that we're discussing okay well that includes part of the soccer field yeah that that could very well be but we
could certainly put up signs that would preclude hunting from that whole area i mean I think that's one of the reasons why you haven't had any issues even though the town allows hunting on the
property in theory because in theory hunters understand that there's there's uh you know with the setbacks there's really no place to hunt right there unless you're right along the river right
and is the river the white line there in it's blue yes that dashed line mhm so So it's in this area correct yep
up to here or so yep and that area just to the south of the property that we're talking about that is not colored pink that is also town own land but not part of the Craven
development okay so that's another parcel that the town had taken for non-payment of taxes I assume okay it's almost entirely wet and uh
next to the river right but as you can see a lot of that portion is also um not allowed to be hunted due to the setbacks so it's really just this area in here
right exactly that area that's sort of the light pinky purple nope the other right there that is soccer field right there right
right and said we could as I said we could put up signs that say no hunting in that area and you know I don't know how many years the soccer fields have been here been there have you ever had any issues with
hunters um to my knowledge no i've been on the board for three two three years now um but yeah the soccer fields have been there for 25 years
yeah I've I've been around the area for you know I don't know 20 years or something and I've I've never heard of any issues out there well if in fact a CR gets put on there I
think we would want to post for sure um I think that would be one of the not allowed uses maybe for the entire property you know the CR would well we haven't made any decisions but it would more be on the
the area out here than the Sulerfield area um so all right um I see uh Ann do you have anything else that you want to um say before I see Colobby has his hand up so
I want to give him an opportunity to to talk sure no I'm done for now um like I said I think we need to uh get some more information from the water superintendent to see um you know I I couldn't find the uh water management
plan um on the website the water master plan um yeah thank you yep i I haven't seen there was an older version but I thought they had just recently up updated it and I haven't seen that so um
Okay okay thank you thanks Ann are you gonna stay on you're gonna stay on right yeah I'll stay on more questions yeah I want to I want to hear what Colobby has to say okay Colby you're on
all right hi hi everyone thank you so well I don't think the CR is a negative thing i um I think it does come with some uh positive aspects but I think there's a more pragmatic approach here that we're not considering um and that
is uh uh to deed it to the conservation commission put in the care of conservation commission um and the reason why I bring that up is is that they come with built-in um you know protections through article 97
um which is in the mass general laws um and I think what that does everything that you are looking uh to do with this property um and that is to uh keep it in
conservation and uh protected um as open space and that's built in uh to the article 97 oh I just don't know don't quite understand
why that's not considered that's Could I ask a question um uh yeah Emily go ahead um would would
um going um riding bikes on the hills be also be covered in article 97 you know prevent preventing that because you know we can we can tailor make the CR can we can we tailor
make um the turning it over to the conservation commission to make sure that we are able to prevent activities there that would degrade the habitat for the um for the
listed species that's my question and I guess my question kind of builds off that if it's article 97 does it allow for the um the use of the land as
a recreational uh facility these are questions i I don't know um you know I know that it uh protects the land um not even necessarily in perpetuity
unless it's uh it needs an act of the legislature to take it out of article 97 but I guess it's more of the can you specify allowable uses versus um uses that are not allowed in specific areas
of the property i I don't know this is something we can check on colby do you know should I take down the share or do I should I keep it up i think I would have to research that but
I don't see why there is any reason why we couldn't have um stronger restrictions or stronger protection in certain areas um with it being in the care of the conservation commission
and I I I'm not quite sure how the state or uh any state entity can actually protect that protect more than the then right here in town uh with the conservation commission when there are violations on any of these properties uh
wildlife management um as well as conservation commission commissions the the first call is to the police that they're the ones responding to violations it's It's not generally uh the environmental police coming out at
least not right away um that's a little bit of my rebuttal to that okay i I just want to reiterate that the purpose of this committee was to put a conservation restriction on um
my understanding was that this had already been discussed you know in depth for you know several months way back when so um here we are so um
uh that's all I'm going to say on that but we could look at article 97 and see i I think I would want to go back to NHSP and have more discussions if the scope is changing um but Ann go ahead
you're and I your hand is up still yeah thank thank you um yeah I I was just going to say to you know uh to Col's comments that um did
consider having the land having at least a portion of the land transferred to the conservation commission and as Ronnie has mentioned on a number of occasions it was already voted by the commission that
they didn't want to take control second um I was just at a conservation commission meeting a few weeks ago and Mr gates had said more than once um in the
taped recording that they were considering swapping some article 97 lands um considering it we asked a question right so my point being that having a CR
on on the land to a different entity from the town um would be very protective particularly if the commission members changed and didn't feel as strongly as you do about
protecting article 97 land and I understand that there the change over in personnel um in the conservation commission you're not wrong there there's a considerable um change but the objectives of of a do
not um change and it is not easy to to uh to move or swap land you know there's a I believe it's a two-thirds vote of not only the the commission members but there's need two/3s vote of
um town and then you need two/3s vote from the legislature the state legislature to do so so it's not an easy thing yeah I'm well aware but it does happen on occasion and
um yeah I I just put that out there i understand i understand i I guess um as far as proceeding goes here I think what I'd like to do is go forward um proceeding at with the
conservation restriction and with the understanding that if something changes we could wind up you know I guess it depends on if the committee is willing to put in the time on a conservation restriction with the
understanding that um if if there is a ground swell to change paths [Music] um that uh we disband um but I would like to go
forward i think that going forward and looking at the property and understanding what allowable uses are for all of the entities um how to keep the property because whether it's
article 97 or not how do you with article 97 put a well on the property for instance um I I don't know exactly how that works um so maybe Kobe you can
find that out um you know how does does that work uh um I don't know so I mean and it was an option it was there were two options brought forward to us by um
NH DSP um one or the other so um I I sort of I agree that we should probably start considering allowed option allowed activities and not
allowed activities and I think people will feel less threatened um if we we see that it's really a very reasonable
um request to protect the habitat um and I think that that it makes sense for us to just look at those things and I think then people will feel a little less
threatened i I just feel a lot of of um nervousness about losing control over over the land uh by the town and and I don't think it
involves that at all especially if we just look at what's allowed and what's what's not allowed what we decide would be allowed and not allowed i think it would help
to calm people down i don't know that sounds reasonable i I know with the West property um we that there was initially a CR put on the CR the terms of the CR
changed maybe 10 years later 15 years later and it was amended um the the family came forward and wanted a change and so which would they're the property owners the CR holder doesn't make
changes to the allowable uses and and the things that are not allowed on the property that isn't the CR holder who does that it's the owner of the property and the town retains ownership so Selena I know you were going to say something
and James has come to the table so I assume he has something else to say so um I have I remembered I did have one question from all of the history which was there was a discussion about whether or not a part of the land was dated to
the water department did you find that i looked all over for that it was in a select board meeting it was it was January 18th um and there was a discussion going on and somebody had the deed but that didn't get shown on
the because and so did he and we had a discussion with town council after that and it was definitely the town that owns it okay with the um with the I looked all over for that and I could not
there's just so much okay so it was January 18th 2023 2022 2022 yep i keep a notebook a notebook and I have four of them and so
I was looking through that because I knew there were notes and I just couldn't so anyway thank you you're welcome um the other thing was I found that there is a conservation restriction for public drinking water supply purposes
um and I actually just sent you the link because my computer is running out of battery and I didn't want to lose it okay um but it is specifically um for water supply purposes and it says
that it is the CR can be held by a municipality or water district through its board of water commissioners okay we can look at that so maybe it's so that might be
part of what we want to do or and makes it not get lost by the water department kind of um town retains the ownership they hold the the CR for the water supply and I do believe the fields are
considered to be part of the water supply because they're part of the water shed for the water supply oh really i'm not 100% sure i was trying to find that um before I came and I didn't but somebody at that
meeting had mentioned that at least one of the fields was in the water shed area so that would be field two that would be field two so the question then would be if they held the CR could they hold it for the entire property and we'd have
the allowable uses of the recreation from the existing field tube back towards the road and would they also monitor the um habitat area and and also allow for maintenance of the habitat area right that's something that's
another thing that is my one of my bigger concerns is allowing for maintenance of habitat area and Emily has done a lot of work the last two years right um with it and I don't want to see it go backwards we did a bunch of stuff down
there in 2020 and it needs to be done again um and I've had conversations with National Heritage about doing it um or quote unquote doing the heavy lifting so it's easier for the volunteers um to
manage because you know the property did go many years without being maintained um it really the habitat did deteriorate um if which then the animals or reptiles move further out um for some
right so are are we good with taking Emily's suggestion of looking at I mean there's there's a lot to look into allowable uses and restricted uses if that's the right word um and looking at the CR for
water that sort of thing and um meeting again to discuss that maybe look at what the CR from fishing game would look like um and I'll I'll get the deed
information on the water so um James I just want to make sure it's okay to speak go ahead i'm I'm just dur I will say that during our last meeting in March and Ann and you did say that
you've never seen property B um swapped um out of chapter 97 now again it was just a simple question that we asked you're muted an muted but you had also on on recording said
it's never been done um you know we have no interest in doing that with any property in town but we have to ask those questions because you just have to it's in my makeup i just asked but I believe wasn't
North County Land Trust an option to hold the CR on this property i I talked to them and they I was hopeful but there was not a lot of interest and my only other thought for um CR
holders because this is on the Squan Cook River with Nash River Waters who I had worked with was Al Futterman and Anna um at North County that was who those were the names that I had given to
Eric but then Al we talk um and I'm not real certain who the person there is now to talk to their land person ann are you talking i can't tell if she's trying to get in
here now um all right well um but those were th those were my initial go-tos for the CR holder um and uh the last time I talked to Anna was fairly recently and it was now so
um the water I think it's more a matter of the monitoring that when you hold a there has to be a baseline development report so what's the baseline and then you have to annually monitor and so you
need to have an entity that feels that they have the resources to allow that to happen and because of the the number of possibilities on this property that that makes it a challenge for an organization
that isn't a huge organization um so all right so any other comments before I go on to the place where we say discuss tenative meeting dates and agendas for that state well I'm just curious how
people feel regardless of why the Craraven family um donated it it wasn't a donation it was a requirement okay but somehow in my mind regardless of how it was
done we still somehow we don't we do we use that as an excuse for disregarding their their feelings about it she was pretty adamant that she didn't want this to have a conservation restriction and not that I I I I read
that differently i I heard her say that she didn't she wanted the ownership to stay with the town did I hear that wrong the ownership and the management of the property to stay with the Okay and I think the the sticking point for her was
the management under the CR would fall to some other entity out of you know it's not really managing the property though um but go ahead i'm sorry yeah and I'll
just briefly tell you now obviously we're not thinking about ever selling this property but I've moved from Chelmsford and about 10 or 15 years ago there was a situation where um a town family had been there historically for a long time
had donated a pond and grassy area very close to the center of town and I don't know what entity in the town controlled or owned the property but clearly it was written the deed or whatever was written in a way where the
town if they wanted to could sell it which they did and so now there is a medical office building there and the family was I rate they donated it in good faith and the town sold it i think I would be I rate too
yeah so not that you're planning on selling it but somehow in my mind it's important to respect the people who donated it and not just see that it's it was required as a way out of of disregarding their
emotions but it So can I can I Yeah go ahead um first of all um we need to clarify that it wasn't a donation it was part of a real estate
deal and so that's number one number two the ownership would not leave the town the ownership stays with the town um I I actually wrote a letter in
uh support of expanding the soccer fields me the person who goes there to protect the wildlife because I know how important it is to have recreation but also this is an amazing
this is one of the most valuable sites for a for particular species plural in the state and that comes from um natural heritage
and that needs to be respected too because the wildlife can't just get on a bus and move somewhere else they're stuck here and if we don't protect the habitat
they will die off so I really feel that we need to meet people's needs and the environment's needs and we can do
both um and um you know the the soccer fields are are expanding they're expanding the entrance they're expanding the parking um and it's great because we need that
type of thing but we also need to protect what has become smaller and smaller and smaller habitat for these species sure I get that okay
so we need to respect one another not the former owners of the large area that became a development and and then this land was set aside so that more houses could be
put on the other portion of their their former land okay so it brings me to What if there is in her mind and I don't know her Miss Craven sort of a hybrid
she talked about she wishes that it would be under the control of the conservation commission she spoke pretty strongly about not having the restriction held by um fish and wildlife even though it's hard to find
um a another trust that might hold the restriction is it worth because it's my understanding they've donated okay this one might be part of a land deal so he could uh build the uh the the houses but
he's donated a lot of land in the town is that true i think it's the But that's that's irrelevant sir mike that's that's irrelevant i understand that but if we could do a hybrid that she would be
agree agree with such as that the town doesn't own it anymore that if she could see the benefits of the conservation restriction perhaps not by fish and game fish and wildlife
whatever um another entity that she felt they would feel comfortable with and the rest of the property is uh deed to the conservation commission is it worth asking if that
asking her if that was in her mind a viable option so I think we are at the point of all of this discussion happened back in 21 and 22 and um the board of selectmen voted based on
the recommendations of conservation commission to go ahead with the CR option i just described that so I think for our purposes we need to move ahead with what we want in the CR
like um Emily was saying the things we want the things we need to restrict and as far as who holds the CR I think we can explore options right I think that sounds reasonable but I think the
part the part that was different and I I don't disagree that we should go ahead and and you know decide on what should be allowed and not allowed and what some but if she could be um assured somehow
that the conservation commission would have the property would be deed the property would be deed to the commission with the CR so I think that would be for the conservation commission to discuss at a meeting and if that is a path they
want to follow they need to bring it to the select board but we as the CR committee don't really have any power over that right the question is is it
worth is it worth asking to make them you know I don't want to make them you know feel better but more comfortable with it but I think that's a question for the conservation um commission or for the select board
but not for us okay the the Yes the reason this was put together was to write a CR and I think there's value in going forward um and and figuring out what are the allowable uses on that property where
how do you block it off for water and do it so that it's there when when and if it's ever needed how do you um I I think it's worth going forward with that with um the intent of doing a CR whether it's
the fish and game CR or the CR template that I had originally sent out to you guys the NHSP one they have a different template than what a person putting a CR on their property would have it's a different template um the process is
different for those two things um uh whether it's an EOE or whatever they're talking about now that's the NHSP or the fishing game that's a simpler process for a CR um but both of them are deeded and in
perpetuity so um I I don't think but we can talk about it when we're doing our allowable uses not allowed uses i don't think there's there isn't anything that precludes the owner of the property from doing whatever they're doing as long as
it's not a disallowed use which is what they chose i mean Mr west still planted his trees he still you know maintained them he still sold them he still you know changed the fields if he wanted to
because he's the one that said "This is what's allowed this is what isn't allowed." It wasn't the CR holder that does that the CR holder works with the land owner and does the the monitoring
to make sure that it stays as is you know I I wouldn't expect that this property would ever change hands from the town but if you're a private owner that has a CR in your property that can change hands and you want to
make sure that the for him it was wanting the farm to remain a farm and wooded you know forever that was the intent was to keep it as is in perpetuity no matter who the owner of
the property was and so it's the outside entity that does the monitoring of that can I make a motion yes i move that we as a committee
um table this discussion and work on um coming up with a list of allowed and not allowed uses is there a second second
oh Selena Thomas second great getting the hang of this emily Fine did the motion selena Thomas did the second um uh any further discussion all right then roll call vote
from committee members starting at the table so Mike Pard yes selena Thomas yes veronica Kell yes emily Fine yes okay with that
um I the motion passes so um should we pick dates and then come back the next time with what we think are possible allowed uses and an if you could provide us with the template for fishing games
so we know what we're working towards um and we'll proceed that way until otherwise noted yes and I will I will look for the deed and I think actually I
think I gave you guys the deeds the first thing that Sabrina sent out there are three the property has three deeds because it's in three parcels right and so if you look at that that's where you'll see it i can't remember which one is the water piece but you can skim it
and find it pretty quickly I think um because I did pull those out so all right um date for our next meeting the only other thing I would like at the next meeting is also to bring the
NHSP CR version um I don't know if you have the current version or I'll check and make sure it's the current version i sent the one that I had from 2023 right um they were revamping it and so
it took a while that's that was one of the things that held it up and HSP was um changing the the template for their um conservation restrictions and so I had to wait till they had it available
and by then my term was ended and I wasn't rerunning so okay I will get the current version so I have two things any additional stuff on the water
um rights I guess um with the D anything I can find on that and um the current version of the NHSP that sounds good um anything else is there a
template for the water um trustees to hold that um you brought up if there is it's a fact sheet and I emailed it to you okay so I'll get it to Sabrina to send out to the committee i can't send it out to everybody because of open
meeting law sorry or I would none of us can um that's just so I'll get it to Sabrina so yes this is the one from or sheet from Selena yeah it's a CR
for public drinking water supply purposes fact sheet there are some other links in there so one of those may be the the the form yeah or where you need to go for it or Yeah okay all right so can we look at
dates dates are Thursday nights generally good for people um Thursday at 7 yes when is school vacation week we want to 24th is school vacation week okay
um do we want to go a week two weeks i wouldn't want to go three weeks but I don't know how people schedule that i'm going to throw out the 24th at 7 p.m does that work for people
works for me it is school vacation week but I don't have a problem with it my kids are older they won't miss me for a couple hours a couple hours all right and Emily what about you does that work for you that works for me okay all right so our next
meeting is Thursday April 24th at um 7 p.m and we'll do it the same way there will be a Zoom link and also here so Sabrina reserved the room for us for like every Thursday for two months or
something so we are good on that all right with that is there a motion to adjurnn so moved is there a second selena Thomas so moved second my pass thank you all right all
those in favor of adjourning at 8:23 selena Thomas yes yes yes emily Fine yes all right thank you very much everybody and see you in two
weeks