All right. So, >> at 419 MB and Kelly's here. All right. Considering the minutes of the uh previous meeting, Mike, have you had a chance to go over
that? >> Yes. Um any discussion? Um all right. So um need a motion to approve those minutes. All right. Make a motion to approve the
minutes of Flex City January 21st, 2026. That's going to be 125 1 26. Uh all those in fa uh we have a motion to approve those minutes. >> Yep. >> I second. Uh all those in favor Michael.
>> Uh yes. >> All right. That has been approved. Now we're discussing the uh energ uh energy committee uh annual report. Um I I just discovered what looked like a kind of a discrepancy in the uh in in those um in
some values. I sent you a copy of that. We're not going to discuss that now. We'll get to that when we talk to Jenny. But um having um looked at that and uh done some editing, the only uh the things that um we've
we've kind of determined to fix were uh first of all the discussion of the uh of the uh uh energy emission s reduced as a as a percentage of
assumption you know >> right >> to energy consumption good energy consumption was 17%. We're not going to get a new figure right now. We're not they're not publishing figures since and actually all the data prior to 2022 is disappeared.
They just took it out. Now it's like starting over again. Uh so instead of talking about reduction of emissions, how much we reduce it from the base, we're talking about how much we're making, which we want to go to zero, right? I don't think any of that is in
is uh in in in the MEI yet. >> So um that part of it, Townsend has reduced emissions due to energy consumption. I mean, or was it or it's just that we reduced energy consumption? You know, I
don't know. has reduced energy consumption but um the value of the uh how much emissions reduction that is how much have we moved towards the goal >> mhm
>> um is is not something that is published in MEI I asked for Zach for it separately and as I was reading the details of the CAP report it looks like there's a difference in the way they in the report of corporate producing for
for emissions. >> Um, so we'll discuss that later, but we got we can't really talk about how much we have reduced emissions because there's no third party uh supporting what we're what we're reporting. So I would I would say that um you could say
as of uh uh 2023 we had this report we had reduced we have reduced we had reduced energy uh emissions due to consumption by 17%. We can stay with that, but we just have to say that that as of 2023
or I guess 20 2022 >> because there the year after that it went up, >> right? Um it went it went uh prior to 2020 I think it was 2022 it was like 24% 23 went
dropped to 17% because of the snow >> and uh 24 25 I don't have really data >> oh so this number is from 2023 well I guess I can say that since so >> we say since 2020 2010
>> you can't say that and you say as of the end of 2023 towns had reduced any emissions, right? You can just drop that alto together, I guess, Brad, because it does it's kind of a >> Well, it's difficult to difficult to
say. How about from 202010 through 2023? >> Yeah. Okay. Through 2023. Uh, latest I mean I we could just leave it at that or I could put in parenthesis latest available data. Okay. >> Available data. Um, most recent. That's
kind of funny that that's the most required that's the case. Uh now on the um okay as of the next paragraph there the two 700,000 that's correct as of 2025.
Uh >> right. >> Originally I said uh GCGP funding and utility incentives, but I I think if I understood right, this is just the GCGP funding alone.
>> Yep. Well, what they do is they take the total cost and they subtract the utility >> amount and that becomes the grant amount. But the utility amount is already taken out. Oh, theoretically you could go ahead and do these and you and
you wouldn't get the grand amount. You'd get only the utility part >> and I think for lights considerable amount is is the utility but >> right >> for the other stuff is >> so and similarly in the next paris I had a figure of 122,000 in the latest round.
>> That's correct. And >> but it was really 198,000 because when you added the extra 76 I think it was more. So I like I like what we have. I think it'll work. >> All right. And uh that's what was what you added for the cap.
>> Oh, right. Uh yeah, you have the latest, right? >> And I have I have read that and I printed it and I I I I would go along with that. >> Uh is there anything else to discuss with this? >> Um no, >> unless there's anything >> I I think you covered it.
>> Yeah. And I'm ready to uh if there's no further discussion, I am ready to um approve this. All right. Uh we're talking about the uh energy committee submission for the 2026 uh
annual report. Um we have produced a file which we would like to submit. Um all those in uh I have a motion to approve this motion. Yours is yours. Uh I second. Uh motion to uh vote. We're
voting now motion. No discussion because there's only two of us here. >> Yeah. >> And then um so your vote is to approve it. >> Yeah. >> Yes. So I will >> and my vote is to approve it. >> Okay.
>> All right. And so I will send it to Sabrina. All right. And we only have this updates here, which we can uh move the web page update up so we have any time for that, but at a future meeting, we'll be looking at that maybe maybe in April. Um maybe not in April because
you'll only be back from your trip for a week or so. Um current uh project status, I have that covered. And the minute status, I haven't done anything more. I've been screwing around trying to get my new computer going. But then okay, so that that is in the queue
still. And uh for third, any any discussion on anything and questions or discussion on anything we've had previously so far? >> No, nothing. Uh Jenny, Jenny, you with us? Yep. She's unmuting herself.
>> I am. I am. Um all right. So I think we were used There's Kelly. You're You got the four, Jenny? >> Yep. I'm waiting for Kelly to come on as well. She's in the process of joining.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right at 4:30, right? >> All right. So, um, we pro provided you with a draft and we're glad to either talk through it or what we what basically what we need to do next is we need a sense of the town's priorities.
We also need to better understand who realistically, you know, if if these are the right measures, who realistically from the town would be uh the entity that is kind of moving these actions forward. either as a lead or in a
supporting role and then to kind of get a sense based on your priorities of like sort of the the timing of uh you know when when you're able to complete things. So the technically the long-term outcome is to 2050. So there's various
you know uh timelines. It could be near-term, short-term, midterm, long-term. We want to get a sense of what of you know looking at the measures where the town might be at in terms of their ability to move forward with any
of the the measures. Um the uh I did see an email about uh just the numbers in the um the G the greenhouse gas emissions and we can certainly figure out reconcile to figure
out why that number is different. My guess is it's because it maybe we didn't look at the most updated number from the uh central mass climate action plan because towns and is technically part of central mass. So we'll take a look at that to make sure that we have the right
information. But the point of this conversation was to focus on the measures. So I think that what Kelly and I mostly want to do is is take your questions and comments. That that's the goal of our of this as a conversation.
So, Kelly, do you have anything else? >> No, I think you covered it. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um, I have to confess I I mean, I haven't read it yet, so um I haven't gotten to the point of of generating questions really. I really I think we
just got this a couple of days ago, >> but I don't know if >> right I have read the whole thing and I made notes. Um I I sense that you you were I didn't know that you were looking for priorities but I'm trying to find uh
who would lead each of these things uh these project um categories that you've identified and uh it's a difficult question to answer. We have two people on this committee. Um we don't have a lot of contact with other people here.
Uh every once in a while someone will open the door and say hello while we're here, but um we don't have a lot of exposure to the rest of this this building. I mean other than Kieran and uh there's supposed to be a liaison with
the with the uh board of selectmen but we haven't we have not much rea interaction with her I haven't said we've seen her since her first week she was here a year ago so um what support
we have to do this we don't have enough people on the committee we don't have enough people with interest in the top so there so there are s I I I I have an impression there are some places where these some of these things could go particularly the uh water part of it but um
I I I I you say setting priorities I I could tell you what my priorities are um but I don't think uh we have a picture of the priorities I mean the uh the meetings that we had brought up a lot of issues this is very thorough report
beautifully done Um, but looking at it for the first time this week, um, I I do not currently have, you know, Karen is is not even here. He was invited. He just walked he just walked by. He didn't not even hear.
So, um, did you send a copy of this to to Karen? >> No, just to the committee first. >> Yeah. There's only two of us. Well, I I tried to print it out, you know, so that I could, you know, read it more
carefully and circle things that I wanted, but the the the font so small I I can't read it like that. Um, you know, on the screen, you can enlarge it and all that, but if you if if we mentioned several several times here,
um, water, I think it's mentioned like uh 10 times or 12 times, then drought three or four times. Um my my uh impression was that that water is not getting a fair share of the attention in terms of um
categories. I mean the the the uh so so that I could could find it. I went looking for it and and uh didn't find it in any of the headings. So um >> it's actually in the section called like agricultural and natural lands is where
we talk about water resources. >> Yes. >> It's mentioned seven times there. And I would like to see I I I think I would like to see that be uh agriculture, natural lands, and water. Then someone could find it in the in the you know
titles and get right to it. Um, the font size, I know it's not what you're looking for in this meeting, but if I printed this out to leave at the library and in town hall, nobody's going to be able to read it uh at Teontai Tech. I I
I I need Fifth 14, which looks like it's written for an old fogy, but that's what I am. And I think a lot of the people uh who I would like to, you know, get to understand this and read it are in my category. of eyes. Uh so I I think
there's there's a lot of there there may be people in town who would uh like to I can leave it at the senior center. You know, a lot of people might actually pay attention to it if we have it in print that they can read and we encourage them to read it. That's that's the you know
what we say. Please pay attention to it. Give us your opinion. But um Oh, I I I did see what might be an error in the in the uh document. Um
the one that I'm I'm not referring to the to the uh the uh greenhouse gases uh number. But on page uh 14 there's a chart percent of total building energy emissions by customer type. There are uh five
categories in on the percentages chart. The colors there um there are six colors uh there. Uh the yellow is so small you can't see it but there's must be a heading missing because the the uh explanation of those
colors only has um three uh five there's there's six colors and five categories. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, >> yellow. You can't can't hardly see the yellow, but that's another category. And
it is there. That's that's the uh the uh >> Oh, yeah. There there should be three blues down. >> Yeah, there should be three blues. And I don't know what the other one is, but I just thought I'd point that out. Um, as you can tell, I'm kind of a detail guy. >> Oh, four blues. Actually, there there
are three defined, but there it's four different shades. Anyway, >> yeah, one of them is actually green, but yeah. So, so there's only three blue. The top one uh fall is underneath the yellow one, which that's residential fuel oil. The next one is residential
electricity. And uh but the bottom blue one I don't think is is has a has a title. I just want to know what that is. And I think >> Yeah, I think it's just the the the So, just basically it's just the um
>> there may be another one in there. Yeah. Okay. So, I don't know what it is. >> The chart is fine. It's just that you can't see the key. The the box in the key is just not dragged down. So, the other one was commercial and manufactured natural gas.
>> Okay. So, the one on the bottom is is related to that. No, on the on my print out the bottom. >> No, I understand Ron the the key like the legend, you know, on that chart. It
just the box is not you have to just I have to dra manually drag it down so you can visibly see it. It is labeled correctly. You just can't see the label cuz the box is covered. >> All right, that's all. I'm just saying that we need another label. I had uh
on page 12 that was that question about the 77,000 uh uh tons of um CO2 and there was a different number on the uh one that on the note that I got from
MRC >> and as I said I think that's because we were using the Metropolitan Area Planning Council's data as you can see that's what the figure is referring referring to, but you probably have the Central Massachusetts Regional Planning Commission's data. They actually have a
different um they had a different regional analysis performed and greenhouse gas inventory. So, we just we need to look that up and we'll we'll remap the uh >> well, in in in tons I still don't understand. In tons of uh CO2,
they're you know, 600 and we're 77,000. So, I this just an enormous difference. I think there may be a a decimal place or something. >> It wasn't just >> out of out of out of place. I mean, I can understand there being a difference because they're taken from two different places, but I can't understand why one
would be 10 times the other. >> Yeah, I think that that's that's a comma when it should be a period. So, we'll we'll we'll make sure that that's up to date correctly. >> All right. Thank you. And then um I had one more that I found there. Seven. What
was this? Well, this No, that's nothing. That's something that we used uh we use some of your information for our annual report. Um >> Oh, good. I hope not the wrong information. >> No, I I the information we we use I think is good.
>> No, I understand. >> We had we had to uh edit our annual report. You were here for that. I guess you were listening. >> I was listening. Yeah. >> Okay. So, I see those those spaces at the at the bottom of the uh uh
climate action plan u the yellow highlighted ones. And for each of those, you're looking for who might lead that section, right? In in terms of uh uh departments and personnel here in town.
Is that correct? >> Yeah. So, what I think what we'll and we don't have to talk about it tonight um or this afternoon, we what what I think we'll do as a followup because you you probably need more time to review this at least for both of you anyway. um is
that we'll we'll ask you to uh provide some feedback, but we also want to um make sure that we get kind of the um relevant boards or committees or staff
input as well. So, what is your relationship with? I'm not understanding enough. So, you'll have to help us. We need more towns. We need town staff to be on board with this because most of the actions here relate
to staff actually providing you know direct support or leading on activities. This is not something that the two would do most of the things that are in this document. So we're who how will that happen? Because we we need
the input of various other entities across town. I wish Kieran was here because he is the central figure relative to the staff, right? And I I uh I agree that that we need to get other people involved. I know Michelle did a
great job of of getting around and getting a lot of different different uh groups together, but I'm I'm uh I'm at a at a loss as to who wants really to particip it really matter who wants to participate. I guess the the town
manager if he wanted to could say this is what you're going to do and then it becomes part of their job. You know I I but I don't know how he wants to handle that and uh who who would be participating in these different elements. It's a good question. I mean, right along we've
known that, you know, we're short of help here in the the energy committee and uh this this makes it, you know, uh stark very clear that that other people have to be involved to for the
implementation of making suggestions and fine-tuning this. >> Would it be helpful if um if I reached out to Karen then and kind of followed up from there? Would that be useful?
>> Uh, sure. I I I include me in those conversations, but I I uh Yes, you you will be better able to describe the things that are needed than I can as a third party, you know, with
>> just to clarify, NIMCOG never intended to write a plan for the town that was completely just coming from NIMCOG. We we need to have you you know we your if you're going to implement the plan we need other committees and boards in the town and staff to be on board with it.
it can't be some, you know, we we're not going to write it in the in the dark over here um in LOL, you know, so we we we need that to happen and the best we can do is we can reach out to Karen. I'm glad to, of course, include you in that, but uh there has to be interest in the
plan in order to get an understanding of who's doing what. The reason why things are highlighted is because we we certainly can give it our best guess but and and sort of what's in you know best practice but we can't you
know the town has to own those responsibilities. >> Yeah. >> And uh there probably more people here don't know we exist than there are people who do know we exist. Um, you know, the uh
that's where we are. >> Kelly, >> I'm very impressed with, you know, the detail, the the uh amount of consideration for all kinds of different parameters, you know, different different sections that get involved in
this climate action. Um but I am not able to individually reach out and know who to reach in in any given department or or area. Um uh to to to help that. I mean, I I think
maybe listing water as as part of a title might help direct, you know, uh you know, getting the uh water department more involved because they're the large they're one of the largest users in
town. Um from what we can see from MEI, of course, you've got data on the other system that that probably a little broader. I don't know what industrial consumption is in town because I don't have a view to that. But um your your your number that you
gave us for that um um consumption includes all town usage, right? And vehicles uh commercial. >> Yeah, that's where that the those data are from. Yeah, >> I know that the one that uh Zach gave us
is uh it appears to me to be only um the t the town building, but it's you know without the decel point it's bigger than yours, which doesn't make any sense. Oh, that would count. Well, if the discrepancy was in the right direction,
that would account for >> just my my only view to the numbers and is the MEI numbers and apparently there's other, you know, another database, which I'd love to have access to because, you know, people ask me questions, how did you you know, where' this number come from? I'd love to to
have access to that data. Um, you know, I I have many times before downloaded everything I can find in me relative to the town and try to make sense of it, but and I but I'd like to do that if we had the uh access to the database where
where this information comes from and um make might make it easier to do a u a u annual report in the future because got our own >> that is that is information that your town administrator has access to. And
the town administrator is the person who has access to that information because they're the ones who have to submit the reports and sign off on them. And they work with the uh my understanding was that they work with Massachusetts Regional Planning Commission on their
great their reports and the data the dashboard the database all of that stuff. So those are the two entities that you'd have to communicate with. I don't think that they will have a way for you to necessarily have access to the dashboard, but I don't think that you're I think they're absolutely the
committee should receive reports um the annual reports. >> So, it sounds like let me make a recommendation. It seems like and I appreciate the feedback that you've given so far just on some of these the details and that we've talked through,
but it seems like well this is what you're saying is you're not really able to provide us with this the the the highlighted areas that are here. you're you're not necessarily in the best position to answer for these questions
and that perhaps we communicate with Kieran we'll include you in that and we'll kind of see where it goes from there. >> Well, there's a lot many more steps and we um with our goalpost of June I just
want to make sure we're getting the right amount of buy in and we had talked about doing a meeting in April. I'm not sure about the based on this conversation. I'm trying to understand what we would do with that meeting. Um I think it's best for us to talk with
Kieran first. Honestly, >> there's going to be Kieran. Um there's just so so little interaction between us and staff. You know, we're not part of the staff. That's what it comes down to. He's he is in charge of the staff. >> Of course. Of course. We understand
that. We really do. and and we understand the position that you're in as a result of that. So, um >> one one other suggestion, if there are other committees that would that you look through this list and there are other committees, I think talking with
those other volunteers would be a good way of perhaps raising awareness about this committee. So even just understanding like would the you know if you know somebody who's on the planning board would the planning board be an actor a leader or a supporter in
taking on these actions? I mean maybe maybe getting directly to staff is not part of this committee's purview but I think broadening broadening awareness of this committee by reaching out to other committees maybe something >> the planning board the planning the planning board and the board of
selectman are the are the are the only ones that we really interact with. Uh the planning board has shown interest, but of course they have trouble getting enough uh volunteers too and um oh just
just a uh challenge to get volunteers in this town. We're not the only committee that's short. move water. >> Well, I think >> I I think Ron um that to me says that we need to that, you know, I I want to
think about this a little bit more, but it's telling me that a climate action plan isn't the right thing. That maybe there's a different approach to use here. That doesn't mean that we have to we're not redoing everything, but that maybe it's a slightly different approach
to communicating priorities for addressing climate in Townsend, whether it's like, you know, sort of more formalizing this into um like a shorter report or, you know, sort of findings and some recommendations and some, you know, that
maybe it's kind of a a maybe it's a step on the way to a broader plan >> and that that's not what we're going to complete right Now >> it's it's just it's March 4th and we had >> hoped you know that if at least having a
little bit more engagement across uh you know the the town body as in not not people living or business doing business in town but we need Kieran we need other boards that this relates to like
planning board or select board. We we need that engagement to happen and >> well they might not get it right now. >> I don't I don't mind trying help figure it out, you know. Uh I don't mind requesting a um some time at a planning
board meeting and going myself and advocating for a uh for for people to participate. Um but that's what it comes down to other other than caring, you know. >> Yeah. Well, I think I want to just make
a draw a little line. There's a there's participating and actually we had good participation when we had those focus group meetings in lie of having a community meeting. We actually had some pretty two really good focus groups uh rounds with staff and then volunteers as
I recall and a lot of that information is what's baked into this document as well as the survey results. So participation isn't a problem, but commitment is what we're talking about. And that that's kind of a different that's a little bit different and it
might require more steps before we get there, which includes educating people about what what we're doing. Um, and understanding also what they're already doing that relates to this work, which I'm not sensing we have enough knowledge
of right now. um and then what they're willing to do in order to make this plan, you know, implement the plan. Those are that to me is different than participating. uh in you're talking to Karen, you could tell him that I'm willing that the
energy committee is willing uh I don't know if Mike will be available but volunteering myself um that I can go into meetings with a printed copy of the of the uh draft plan and say we need
more people to look at this with us and consider it and commit to you know helping drive this within your committee or whatever. uh which see if I see if I can draw out uh volunteers but having something to leave behind because I I don't think people will in a meeting you
of course they can't read the whole thing in a meeting um I don't mind highlighting you know what's it what it's for what it's doing and and then providing them with you know a very impressive detailed plan um that say we need someone to execute help us execute
these parts of it and uh if that'll work I'm not Sure, I'm describing what you need that but we're looking for pe individuals I think to commit. I don't know if I get a commitment from a com committee but if we get individuals commit and we'll pro probably need looks
like looks to me like 10 or so um eight or 10 to individually ex some maybe same person will help us you know uh will commit to doing more than one you know but um having the right uh skills and
mindset find find that the right people are helping us uh execute these things are are in place. >> So, it's it still seems like talking to Karen is the best, you know, gateway to that happening potentially. And why
don't we we'll we'll take that as a followup. Um, we'll certainly look at the other items that you have already given feedback on to make sure that those things are adjusted. if you want you wanted to come and talk to Kieran, uh I don't mind being there to
participate and explain, you know, what we think about it. I I think we're very positive about it, but um I I don't I I just don't have the contact to uh help identify people who can make a
commitment. I think that that's that's that's really part of the problem getting volunteers in town. Uh what they told me is that the meetings last too long. That's the big complaint they've all they've always had. And uh you know, we do pretty well in the entity committee. I think we haven't really
gone much more than an hour very often. But uh yeah, if you if you want if I if you come see Karen, you want me to participate or participate online, I'm I'm I'll be available for that. >> Okay. Well, then I'll I'll follow up and see what we can do. Um I'm not certain
it will be in person. and it might be a meeting like this, but we'll we'll be in I'll be in touch to let you know what we're able to accomplish with him. Um, and then separately, what we had done with the town of Littleton's uh, sustainability committee is we left them
with a memo that outlined exactly what we were looking for, which I initially I was thinking that's what we were going to do here. But I'm going to pause on that until we talk to Kieran >> because I'm not clear I'm not clear that that will be I I don't think that will
be helpful. But I had I had I mentioned it in my me my email to you regarding this evening was that I was going to talk about that as a next step. But I don't think that I'm going to talk about that because I think the next step is different than the one that I had thought was going to happen.
>> So the next step is that I'm going to talk to Kieran and I'll include you in that conversation. >> Thank you. Kelly mentioned I had uh noted something about there was a paragraph in the thing in this that had a lot of numbers and percentages and it
was like and she suggested that we we we try to figure out a graph or a chart for that and I think that's a great idea. Getting through that paragraph is very difficult whether you have it in print in front of you or the computer whatever it's just a lot of numbers. So a graph would be very
helpful. I think that's a great suggestion if if it can pull it off. >> That's all I have. >> That was that was a note to the for the next round of revisions on this. But yeah, I had it was a very dense paragraph. So
that's all I have. >> All right, then. Well, we will uh we'll be in touch. >> All right. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you all. Byebye. All right. Thanks so much. Bye-bye. >> Bye-bye. Thanks. >> All right. After that,
I have no uh additional topics or do you? >> No. Um, nobody around for a public forum. I can see I proposed a next meeting for 4:00 on April 8th. I have not, you know, made
arrangements with a rumor or anything, but usually at four o'clock this is open. Are you available uh for the 8th? >> April 8th, uh it should be. I I'll be back from my travels. See, quick check of my
calendar. Maybe not so quick. Let's see. April 8th. Um 8. Uh oh. Yep. Should be okay. I was I have died appointment, but that's in the morning, so that's fine. Okay.
>> Okay. Um motion for adjournment. >> Okay. I make a motion to adjurnn the meeting. >> I second. Any conversation about that? I guess not. Um Michael, your vote. >> Yes. >> Yes to adjourn. RM. Yes to adjourn and I
vote yes to adjurnn also. Um Rick, >> yes. >> We may uh close the meeting now.