All right, so welcome to our energy committee meeting June 23rd uh 2026. Uh this meeting is being recorded. Um beginning 4:08 [clears throat] and there's nobody else
here. All right. Um could we consider the previous meeting minutes of May 6th, 2026? I did send those to the committee. And if you if you've had a chance to look at it, Mike will will
ask for a motion to approve the minutes. >> All right, I [clears throat] make a motion to approve the minutes of the meeting of May 6th, 2026. >> I second. And I guess there's no conversation about that. There's two of us, so so
Michael, you you approve? Yes. And I also approve. So The yes. >> [clears throat] >> And yes. The back hill status of of the uh minutes. It's interesting.
Today, I got a message from from John Court who has actually done entrance entry suit of all my everything that I have submitted to him so far. So now I can give him some more. And uh >> [clears throat] >> the
I wanted to call it up on screen, but I don't think I can share it because we're not getting >> [clears throat] >> the I can't come up this time. No, won't let me in. I can't can't get my own
uh email to run. No. At least not here. But it it was amazing. He has dates back to 2011. >> Yeah? >> Probably 20 of them prior to when I joined >> Oh. >> the committee here. Uh a lot of work has been done and but we're going through
it. The most interesting thing that I found was uh you know, what I showed you there, the the original plan. I didn't I I never really looked into it deep enough, you know, cuz I thought of so far long ago it wouldn't really matter, but it is. It has It's the stuff we did. >> Right. >> You know. Um
So, bottom line is that project is moving forward and we're getting more recorded. I don't know to know to what degree people will care [clears throat] about stuff that old, but I'm I I feel like I have responsibility to to complete the record as best I can. >> Um is so what would be is if you go on
to the town website now, what's back to 2024? >> I think it's 20 23 he told me today. He had 2022. I I can't even open his his Well, I can't I can't open how far back it went. Actually, it's only my computer that's
screwed up. Shouldn't be the file. So, he sent me a >> [clears throat] >> message. No, not a message. It was a text. These are the dates he has paperwork for, but they never scanned. Oh.
Oh, all the way back. Wow. It still goes down below that, too. Huh. >> Uh, so [clears throat] somebody handed in like paper and >> It was turned in and it was thought done. So, that that
That hap- that happens so much that apparently Brent just quit sending them in. >> Right. Right. >> And I had the same experience. I, you know, part of our minutes that I'm finding that the uh agendas that I submit were not getting
going anywhere. So, now we're going to Those are the ones he's got. I don't have to worry about half of them. But, I have what I have goes from 2019 uh pretty much forward. I do have some, you know, 2012 this paper that I found.
It's not even filed. But, if No, he doesn't have them. We don't have them. Anyway, that's the project that's going forward and kind of backtracking. But, what I find in that >> [clears throat] >> and and and what's good about the
that is that if when we look at our project uh well, the guest name we're supposed to talk about on the on the agenda is the current project status. And really it's nothing has happened because of the new new um
no new grant opportunities are identified that we did, we couldn't do anything. Uh I'll I'll send a text to Frank and ask him what the status is cuz we're getting some warm days now, but I know they wanted to check the air conditioning in here. >> Mhm.
>> You have to have a warm day to do that. >> Yeah. >> Um I wanted to check here. I wanted to check to see if you are getting the email from Department of Energy Resources Green Communities Grant Program. Are you getting them directly?
>> yeah, I get those. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Get periodic communication. Yeah. >> Right. Just want to make sure you get and then uh I don't know if Cathy is or not, but >> All right. Uh web page update thing. Um I I I I I actually
prepared this, but I don't [laughter] have any time. I don't can't get my my uh my stuff online right now. But um when you uh how do we do this? Yeah, you you'd be looking at that. >> Oh, okay. Okay.
>> Um Where was I? Right. So, we want to open the town website. >> [clears throat] >> Oh. >> [clears throat] >> That That's it. I mean, one at a time. The um the They make a big We're making a big deal
in our website out of the climate action plan. And I would like I I don't want to abandon it, but I'd like to kind of recede it in terms of its visibility cuz, you know, actually we what we should have in here someplace is this is not proceeding because they have no
volunteers. But then anybody sees it they go, "Oh, if they care, you know. Yeah. >> Well, we should explain why why it's not moving after 2025. >> Yeah, I don't I don't remember what I know that right in the front of our page was like, if I recall, um
was about the survey. I mean, that's still there. That's sort of outdated cuz the survey is still there. >> The survey's done, you know. The survey's been incorporated into that plan. >> Right, but but I would include it, but it's but it's it it it's like our website right now. The the main front
page, energy committee is, you know, we're participating. >> Right. >> Yeah, I I think I >> actually moving. So, I think we have to I would like to include information that I we should get I got us corner him and and uh what's her name?
>> Jennifer, yeah. >> And uh >> So >> So, we're making agreements and not telling us. And I don't like we should communicate to them, I feel, that we don't care to have a have a something that isn't moving forward be the primary thing in our web.
Now, we have to have we have to substitute something. >> Mhm. >> And what I in considering all this you know, it's not only that we want it to reflect our goal, but I think an element that is missing is action.
Action oriented. We want to cause people to take action. And that would be the Mass Save thing first, I think. >> Mhm. >> Um So, I I guess to to me um I looked up today, but I never never
got figured it out. I wanted to identify which contractors are approved by or eligible to participate in this area by Unitil, you know, be electricals. But right there other contractors besides Rise.
>> Mhm. >> And Rise has been contacting me a separate element not not the the Mass Save people want to you know have go to a meeting or have a meeting and have a presentation. And it's far
easier for us to use this stuff than to come up with our own. And besides that at such a meeting people will be you know invited to take action schedule a visit. So I to me I don't I I was reluctant to to do
something like that cuz I don't want to come on as endorsing any given contractor. I mean even though they're insured and Mass Save contractor not as in >> Well what what are you talking about? In other
words you're saying we would our website would prominently display I don't know that it would be the number one first thing you see. I don't know if that makes sense. >> [clears throat] >> The website somewhere prominent to you know to give links or whatever
reference to those resources which is the main way that the average person could find out how to save energy and save on their energy bills and and consumption. So yeah I would say we should have certainly links and maybe a little bit of information on the whole
Mass Save Yeah. No just to I So I'm not sure what you mean by a contract is is going is using the Mass Save program necessarily referencing a particular contractor. >> Well because the that particular contract whoever it is would come and do
a do a presentation at the library. May have a couple of people but interesting slides you know these people we saved them $3,000 a year and it cost them 800 bucks. You know so that's kind of thing they do and they
have probably they might explain some building science. I I know what what it what any given contractor does. Um but I don't want to come off as having endorsed somebody. You know, it it
they'll be invited uh to come they'll they'll present actually they would even print a postcard to send it everybody. They'll tell it says we're doing presentation to Mass Save, you know, the uh the uh sponsored by you know, whoever they by
Mass Save. Um and uh and doing kind of uh on on behalf of the energy credit. >> Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> It's because I want to find out how many contractors there are. And is there an obvious one? And Rise would seem to be an obvious one because they did all the
work and you know, 800 grand worth of work in the pool. >> Yeah. >> But um they're not the only one. And I think I think maybe even if you make that part of the presentation, you know, whoever it is that comes from Rise is be their presentation group. Um they they uh
in introducing them, you'd say you would say uh and tell them you're going to right that these these people are not the only contractor that does it, but the prices are all the same cuz they all quote Mass Save prices. It's not individual contractor prices. >> Mhm. >> I did this kind of work myself for years
and you know, I know how it works. Uh people who who shop for a competitor are not necessarily going to get the same quality because they cuz Mass Save has very strong building standards. >> Mhm. >> And I actually lost a job one time. I sold I
sold wall insulation to somebody. And the most important thing to them was they reduce the sound cuz they were they're they're they're uh their house was right right near a uh stops uh stop light. So, traffic was stopping and going. So, they had a lot of lot of road noise.
And besides they didn't have enough insulation. Uh that would would have been a benefit. I explained that to them. Gave them the price. Then they signed up for it. Okay, we'll do it. And a couple weeks later before before, you know, I knew what the schedule was, I saw
another contractor's truck out in front. And they they apparently went with another contractor after they signed my contract. I mean, they >> [clears throat] >> we gave them the deposit back and all that. The point is that the other contractor was not a Mass-Save contractor. They do
not do dense pack. You know, who we we would put 4 lb per square foot of material in, right? And they put a pound and a half of material in. That pack reduces noise. And I told them that during the visit, but but no one at the the company was
[clears throat] not very good about dealing with competition. They Mass-Save is Mass-Save. There's no competition, right? >> [clears throat] >> But these people were probably didn't get what They saved They may have saved themselves three or four hundred bucks out of their two grand, but
you know, they didn't get what they wanted, and they will use extra energy. That oil-heated home is going to be Yeah. So, this is the kind of thing that happens. So, you tell people there are other people who do insulation besides Mass-Save, but you won't get the
same thing. >> Right. >> So, you want to go with a Mass-Save contractor cuz there's standards, there's inspections, third-party inspections. Who is going to do your third-party inspection if you hire an independent contractor? You. Right.
And so, [clears throat] that's the kind of you you just set them up to understand for one thing, you know, we know this is a good contractor. They did most of the work in town. Uh or their their commercial group did. This is the residential group. But I knew some of I know some of these guys
cuz I worked with them in in uh in the >> [clears throat] >> But um you so you'd start off by I think that if if it's acceptable, I want to I think I don't know if I need to go through this, but I was thinking that I have to go to the board of selectmen or at least
our liaison to say this is what we plan to do and I want to know if it's acceptable to you cuz you know >> Mhm. >> We just want us to educate people. There's education and action. >> Yeah. >> Uh and we don't have to do a lot of it.
Our two-person committee I I've tried to do the presentation myself. I tried to create a uh >> Yeah, for a while we were really planning to do that and >> I tried I I got I got so far with it but I'm not good at it, you know? I ended up
with with it would look to me would be a like a two and a half hour presentation to do it right. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, probably nobody's going to sit through that. >> Nobody will sit through that and it unless you you said you'd like to learn a little bit about building science and the reason why this works, you know,
that's another presentation. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I actually am comfortable talking in front of people, you know, about technical things. Um so conceivably if we wanted to do that like I wouldn't mind giving the talk as long as you know, I I'm going to
assume that I could sort of spend a little time and understand it well enough to present it if you were there to answer questions that I couldn't answer. You know, I could I would be volunteer to do that. >> The thing I don't know how if it how it'll come up in our particular meeting
but um there are things that MassSave does or does not do that comes up in the discussions. Um I remember as as as a as a guy going doing visits. They had us come into the
office for a meeting every month. One meeting and it was always stuff that changed in the MassSave program. Last week if you do if you don't do this you'll be in trouble. This week if you do this you're in same thing. You know, it wasn't monthly to month but it like
every six months the rules kind of changed. You know, you can do this in an evil at one time and don't dare do this in an evil or another and so I'm not qualified to do the presentation of what Mass Save would do.
Because I don't know what their current rules are. And even in individual contractors might have their own rule what they will do outside of Mass Save. Like I've got a floor attic. You know, can you insulate the attic with a floor? No, you can't. But
one contractor will have a will say I I can remove it, but it sure could Mass Save doesn't get involved. And the other contractor will say I I don't get involved with that at all. You have to do it yourself. So, I don't know what the rules are for an individual contractor. >> [clears throat]
>> Um But it's that that action that is missing. Uh I I think it called to action cuz like nobody comes to our meetings, nobody knows we exist. >> Yeah. >> They're all saving money, but they don't know where it came from.
Um >> I I I noticed some some little things about the uh the website that other other than that that we could probably work. Um I mean, I thought well, I you can let me know what what you saw when you looked at it. I
know when I had looked at it a little while back, um I thought what that we probably want the first thing you see a couple among the things you would see right on the main page or maybe there would be a a big link to it would be, you know,
what mostly what we've done is is facilitate all of these energy conservation projects. So, some sort of summary of that. And um you know, off the top of my head I could list a few, but I there must be somewhere a list of everything we've done. >> Yes.
>> That is that I could show Can you see what my screen over there? >> Um >> to share screen first, I guess. >> Yeah, I'm I don't see it now, but uh yeah, so you know, maybe a really high-level summary right on the main
page, like, you know, in the last 10 or years or 15 years. >> It's to say in 2012, we engaged with this project and and through all these years uh we received so much so much money and I don't know, it's kind of hard to >> Yeah, I mean, the main you know
>> what we're saving every year. >> We've done this, we've received this much grant money, whatever it is, $800,000, and here's major projects that have been implemented, maybe the maybe the important categories or most,
you know, a few representative ones, maybe have a link to a full list, I don't know. >> The the the link is there. >> Mhm. >> The list of things we did is very abbreviated. Um >> Right.
>> In the Green Communities Grant Program webpage, there's a section um where there's one section where they show what awards were done each time, you know, each each time they made an award.
>> Oh. >> Uh and it's all the towns listed and the total, you know, $20 million in total that they granted at that time. And the towns are listed, but no detail. You don't see what any town did. And the next one,
it you can sort on town, it gives a list of town, you sort on the town, like town and then it shows the five individual grants we got. In one column, there's a very brief, I mean, it's like as few words as possible to fit the
space, they said what we were what we did with that money. And and and it does usually mention at least the building, you know, the Hall and Brook and you know, >> Yeah. And we know like with the schools it was probably the LED lights or or whatever.
Sorry, I'll turn that off. >> The individual contracts are not, you know, spelled out in detail there, but you get an idea what we actually accomplished out of that list. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, we could probably
>> [laughter] >> I would say that would be a the future revised website would have that prominently. Um some sort of summary or a link to the full list and we can go >> Do you use it before or after the mission? >> I think we'll go go after the mission.
>> Yeah, the mission that and and as you say maybe maybe also links for people what what people themselves can do. Maybe link to mass save. >> Mhm. >> Um >> There are just just uh some pages here that go to a
a non-existent link. >> Yeah, I noticed that. >> And there were some that went to an inappropriate link. Jesus had one that was kind of pornographic. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Some of them I just thought were things that weren't of interest, you know. Not I didn't notice that, but
>> Well, I didn't I didn't really go into the text says there's porno porno pornograph pornography here if you look for it. >> Really? >> Yeah. And and um I didn't know >> What energy? >> But but I I made a note that, you know, it was inappropriate. And [laughter] and
uh where it is. >> Maybe it was some site that had a similar Yeah, address or something. Um >> I don't need to find it right now cuz we're not going to look at it. >> Right. Yeah, I think the
the um climate action plan is is overly emphasized if we are not actually doing it. And >> Right. >> to have something I would like to have something in its place, but >> When you say we're not doing it, well, that there's no active >> There's no active >> people designated to implement
>> And I think our it it would be appropriate to say our uh we we we have not we've not moved forward with it because lack of volunteerism. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh if you would like to volunteer hit the link.
>> Uh well, um I guess that's the next thing on the agenda, but um I mean, the plan is is it is written, hasn't been finalized, I guess. I think my my recollection was it there had to be some discussion as to who would be
implementing different parts of it. And that because that was mentioned that was part of the plan, so it's not really finalized. >> then I think the board of board of selectmen would say, "Yeah, what is it we're going to do?" No, we're we're just a an arm of a board of selectmen. >> Right.
>> And actually the town town administrator, Nelson got us involved in this thing. And it turns out that nothing they did will satisfy Green Communities requirements. So, you still got to do basically the same similar [clears throat] or same thing
with uh Green Communities. There is there's an opportunity to do that. It's uh called um It's I It's not It won't be the same orientation as that one, but it uh had climate action,
uh what is it called? The Green Communities um It's it's just getting it prepared for what uh the decarbonization. [clears throat] It's a pre-preparation of decarbonization plan
it which is not climate change incentive but the same data. Um Oh, there was a lot on here that I here on that I thought was explaining climate climate change. This was the this is something that Jennifer said
near the beginning of that. Um There's elements of that that are interesting and brief enough to be Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> And one that I one that I wanted to include, I don't know if you would agree, but uh let's talk about it. What keeps coming up in my private
personal life discussions of of of the United States position in in climate change, what people come back with is China is building coal plants.
Why should we, you know, spend money to not make carbon and then >> I know that's an argument, but there are many answers to that. For one thing, um I think China is also, you know, really advancing in in the use of renewable energy.
>> Well, I understand that and it's just how do you answer that question? I I think it deserved to be answered and research that I've done, you know, just like here, we were to to uh electrify this building. >> Mhm. >> No question someone I'm going to raise
the fact that what are we doing in a power failure, you know, if you could have a power failure the last three days with the extra strong storms are getting these days, a storm could very easily rip a power line and you have no power here. So, what are you doing in the winter time? You got no power.
And you you you think about you need to have a backup. >> Mhm. >> And that's what [clears throat] China's doing. And part of the reason for their 50 is that they have had power shortages and they have experienced that with wind and and even though they've spent more than
anybody on uh per capita on on this stuff. Um >> Right. I mean, >> They they suffered and they decided to come up with a plan. And their most readily available fuel is not oil or gas, it's coal. >> Yeah.
Um I mean, and China uh while they are the biggest emitter in quantity per capita, we are by far the biggest emitter. So, we you know, my answer is always like we we're usually the leader on
you know, most major challenges to the world. Um especially when it comes to science and technology. You know, we we need to be the leader and of course we're not now uh currently, but um Uh yeah, that that to me is a very very
serious point in an argument that people, you know, oh, well, China is And also, you know, we're we're a wealthy, developed, much more wealthy, much more developed country. Every, you know, you have to allow a country that is much poorer to go
through maybe getting developed before they can >> Their challenges are different. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and their challenges are different. And and with the [clears throat] amount of renewable effort they've made, they're they're way ahead of us on renewables. I mean, it's a cap. >> Yeah, not
>> And they're going to continue to get ahead of us on renewables cuz we're not trying to do it anyway. >> Right. I mean, not only in terms of adopting renewable energy as a big part of their energy. And I don't know if they're ahead of us in that sense in terms of a percentage of their energy use that's renewable. I don't I'm not
sure. Um but certainly they they are the leading developer of the technology now. I mean, they're they're making most of the solar panels and uh you know, electric cars and and all that. >> I think it I I it's something that I
would address cuz we know that it it it'll come up. You know, people >> Yeah. >> have that attitude and that's part of [clears throat] the attitude of basis of the United States not being a leader anymore, you know, that's the attitude. So, I think you have to address it. And I
it's to say that I accept China having to use more coal in the future because they have different circumstances than us. It doesn't really The fact is they're making an enormous effort to reduce
their carbon output. And those plants are, you know, largely backup. I mean, they won't necessarily run to capacity. The thing that's really really uh uh nasty about it that I recognize is that using them
it'll be difficult not to use them. >> Mhm. >> You know, you're building it's hard difficult not to use it. So, we know they'll they'll make more carbon. We'll shift the plants, but everything else they're doing is, you know, the negative part not adding.
Uh it's it's The point I got to the the effort would be to interrupt the argument that China's not doing it, you know, >> [laughter] >> it's it's a subject. Um The uh what we what we should do is they figure out here whether there's
anything, you know, whether we want to meet again before uh fall. And uh also what it is that we might be able to do individually over the summer to advance this Mhm. this project.
Um there are there are some uh couple of disasters in the in the links and I'd ask your permission to point those out and have them deleted. One of them is the uh foreign one and the other one is the uh um
the position that we have in terms of There was one of the error one that I had. I'll figure it out. >> Yeah, that would be the one So, yeah, I certainly be happy to go through it again, maybe make more get
more specific ideas. Um and then is there somebody I can May have talked about this. There's somebody who would help us implement >> John Corey, the same guy who's doing the >> Is he assistant town clerk? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, um if we say, "Oh, we want to
have We want to say this on the main page and we want to have a link to this or that." Like he can implement You know, I don't know how you do any of that, but he he can do that or he can have somebody do that. >> I think if the plan is for them to do it, but of course
our town clerk is now also a select person, I think. Did he get elected? >> Uh I don't think so. >> Harrison didn't get elected? >> I don't think so. I think it was the other It was a woman and I can't remember her name. >> All right. Well, I I'm I'm glad for that. I think it's too much for one
person. >> It is a lot, yeah. >> And uh >> [clears throat] >> So, Corey should be able to deal with it. He's not short-handed in town clerk office. [clears throat] Um but you know, I think another thing that we
might try to do if you agree to it is try to arrange a meeting with Karen and have a specific discussion. You know, what is the conversation with with her? Is this thing, you know, have
a chance of moving forward or not? Don't Well, let's get it the hell off the, you know, we do pull it down off the web page, stop the survey until we are, you know, eminently proceeding. >> Right. >> And I'd like to look I will look at the
the specific tasks they came up with for the um for the climate action plan and see if there is one of them that I might be able to handle. >> [clears throat] >> Can't handle the whole thing.
But pick one >> Mhm. >> to try to help get the ball rolling. >> Mhm. >> If I feel like I can. I'm feeling better now than I was, but you know, I could have another collapse. I don't Yeah, this is just trying to move things forward. And
hopefully if I if I I would try to pick one that I can do and that might have a broader interest level. So if we can get people into that meeting, you know, some of them say, "Well, I'd like to do that one." They they'd be learning at the same time, you
know, about the climate action plan, not just that element, and that there needs for other volunteers. Now, you may have one two people, you know. >> [laughter] >> But if you get someone to volunteer, you know, that's okay. But it's it's action-oriented,
getting people [clears throat] to take action that I'm thinking about it and that you know, that fixing minutes is, you know, ancient history. It's not going to get it done or do anything except make a record. But action
If if if you you you got to make a commitment to it, but action is I think the biggest element we're missing right now as a And and action might you know, in in doing the you get people
attracted to a presentation at the library, you get four people to show up. Um that's a good place to just say that we're the energy committee and there's only two people, it should be five. You know, you the people are interested in energy. >> And yeah, that's true. >> I don't know if the level let us use the
bulletin board down there, but you say energy meeting tonight at the library, you know, mass save meeting, you know, whatever. And and and make a genuine effort to build this momentum. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Cuz what we've done is great. Uh and
there are some things I had to say about um the uh uh community aggregation thing. >> Mhm. >> Um there's good material about that in our website. Um but and and and it it it says an
independent topic here. But um I would love to have some stories. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> You know, resident one, resident two, resident three, you know, saves me $600 a year. I say
copy it doing what other people are doing, you know, and that helps move things. Help people take action. All right, do you do you think we ought to meet again this year or do you wish you want to let it go till um >> Uh you're thinking just typically we take summer off, but
I assume you don't mean meet again this year. >> This year. This summer this summer. >> Oh, summer. >> Till till uh uh August. If if we see an opportunity, we'll jump on it anytime. >> Yeah. >> But >> Yeah, I can always, you know, I'm pretty flexible during a couple of vacations, but
>> So good. We'll we'll um leave it open. But if I have a meeting with Kieran, I would would like to have you there. >> Yeah. >> And uh >> Yeah, that'd be good. >> Before we do that, I got to look at the list of stuff I need to be buying see if
there's that I might be helpful with. >> Mhm. >> Uh >> And you know, so that's the plan. >> All right. I can go back to take a fresh look at the website. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Any more ideas on that? >> All right. Um
Yeah, that time and action plan we had to discuss that. Top top new topics for all the foreman form proposed I don't know what I did there, but minutes >> [clears throat] >> And then from the forum done
August unless new opportunity comes up. We agreed to that. >> Yeah. >> Um Do we have a motion to adjourn? >> Okay. >> Make a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> I second that motion. There's no discussion. There's two people.
>> Yeah. So I second the motion and we Well, Mike >> Yes. >> Yes.