okay uh ready to go we are calling the T town finance committee meeting to order at [Applause] 6m everybody's in the building but we call
attendance Carol H Sam Grant Don hay is four members we have a quum so we are good to continue meeting is being recorded
um it will be played back on Channel 9 and available On's YouTube channel has a YouTube channel we do yeah wow um and when I go to YouTube I go somewhere else double check to see if anybody else is recording the meeting
um and we see one one additional person on the phone muted and no volume LS who is that strs and
others Lisa was that Lisa strs yes okay thank you yes okay see you on Friday okay so we nobody's recording at this point uh
item four on the preliminary additions or deletions um I'm going to delete item two in the work session I did not the the minutes have been generated I haven't sent them out for review yet um we'll move that to a
future meeting what are you moving um the minut reviewing the minutes it two we're just going to move that to a future meeting then um we'll start with the main purpose of today's meeting is to
review the war articles and make recommendations as we normally I will call the warrant sorry started two um we have just done the preliminaries we just getting ready
to grab one of these off [Music] okay so the article one is the article that did not complete in the last that's the same one from number 19
last correct yes yeah that's one that we don't make a recommendation on correct y so I just want to make sure that we are all good with that how does one find
the chapter 145 of the town code particle 10 go to the planning board website okay and then there's a a link for bylaw okay and you can then I think there's a search that you can search 145 I want to know why you want to remove
two and put it as one and all that because it says nothing to and I'm on the planning board yeah and I think I don't know I think I think I just want to leave it the way it is if I had anything to say about the last one
as soon as he said something about you have to hire have to hire an outside consultant to do something whatever he was talking about I'm sorry but he did draw BR go on and on and on I know Robert
can he gets passionate about this stuff he can get he he called my wife and asked me to join and she politely said thanks anyways it'll be it'll probably that's why she put it on first it could be oh I know why because she
she's still the L's still the chair of the planning board right and she said got cut off so she wanted this start with first we don't have to take any action we don't have to take any action um but there just because there were questions
um in addition to the planning board you can also get through through the selectman um page on website um again over on the left side would be bylaws um we visit it out at the end of the meeeting if you want I can I can wait to read it
out and send you an email if it's really important um to possibly meet before the meeting to get an intelligent point of view I'm not sure my eyes are going to come up with
one okay article two um to see if the town will convert Town CLK from an elected position to a position appointed by the select board are we allowed to get a professional point of view on us um well
do we make a recommendation because it's not Financial it's not financial and I think if we're going to speak to it it would be um as as a citizen um at that should we give our opinions right
here at this table we can we can have a conversation okay kind of like um it um never never try to suppress conversations you want me to start if you want to start go for okay
well to me this is just one more time that they try to take your vat away from you just like they did last spring I don't think it's a good idea that people have the right to vote and it's a very it's one of the most important
positions I mean next to the guy who sits in that other room um that this town has as far as keeping you know all the right PL information in the right place right and Kathy I tell you just the other day I need I wanted to know
what the article was right and I they printed one for me right there so I knew exactly where to go to get the information I needed right so as a board we won't be going there
making a recommendation U but um anybody else that's my answer I just wanted to P off the fence one way or the other it's kind of so on on our board Other Board of our board at the um at town meeting
do we make a recommendation we don't normally make a recommendation on articles that aren't financially oh it is financially has to do with how this person is going to be paid what this person uh you know they
might they might change a lot of other things on it they don't have to give names but I think I truly feel as though we should take a vote whether it's three to two one to five whatever it is I say I'm on the fence part of
me P of me was definitely wanted election and then I talked to Lai after one of our other meetings and she kind of persuade me to going to the appointed I mean an election it could be an a PO
popularity contest who's who's more popular versus if you're appointed there has to be some um looking at your experience in education and background instead of just we're
elected you really don't know what the person's experiences and what they bring to the table so I'm on the fence I see one way I see the other way so I'm not
and you know you know my daughter is running they can also be unapp appointed for political reasons too well yes this and that's the most important thing yeah I know I know of some people
that person who been unelected or un Ed from you know a position in in this town who um you know who was going decent job not a good job but a decent job well and that's why I said I'm on the fence I because you're right there's that
because I'm that's why that I'm like the elected it's it's there either one is a personality con concept either one whether it's appointed it's a real good friend of Blackman or it's real good look really
good in front of the public for voting but normally speaking the public has a tendency for a job like this to find out if they're going to vote at all who's got the experience in this position in this town so anyways I'm on the fence so I don't want to vote either way can I
ask you a question about your um if there were five Bard s would that change your mind instead of just two would sway you to the appointment evence um
versus the elected fence if there was no versus well yeah versus the elected fence yes if there was five select five SEL um yeah I'd have to know who this they are yeah I know and that's why
I'm on the I'm on the fence because exactly what he what seem just said so um that's why I'm on the fence because I know what you said is his true um so
yeah that's why I'm I'm still I probably won't even vote either way because I just don't know you can abstain yes because like I said I'm yeah I don't know which so I
would so I'd be either way I would not be unhappy but you know what however the vote came out I would I'd be fine either way so I don't have like so like I promise you in this town if somebody
gets that job besides a fine young lady behind you um and they mess it up a little it'll be all over town oh yeah please I know it's everything's on I don't know what the voting rate is around here per
population but even if it's 10% those 10% are going to know and they'll be back the next time oh yeah the um it's all over Facebook believe me I just think it's taking a taking your privilege but it's
also historical it's way we've been doing things and there's too many things in the last 75 years in my lifetime that have changed to the worst and I don't think this should be one of them okay so
this is kind of we will it's kind of like um no okay um I don't my little piece is that it is in the town Charter that the town clerk position is an elected
position right now so we're talking about changing the town Charter through this so I it's not a short process and that's the charter that just got approved it was just yeah it was just updated updated we did yeah the updates
were were posted and updated to it um but if it's going to going to change it it has a whole sequence to go through okay um that that's going to cost money right um yeah well yeah I was say
there's going to be that um the um town lawyer will need to reu it will have to be subed the Attorney General gets submitted and then it's V I guess that would sway me to keep it and it's not just that and and again
it's kind of like one of the things that I think has been missing in the last couple of Elections is we don't have that ability of um having um a candidates night I haven't seen a candidate's night at least last year
where you could ask those questions what are your qualifications um and to um to take this position so we we we have had that in town we've had qualified people for the position
usually people that have been working in the office and understand the office what's required and and moving forward um and this this is the first time we're we're changing from that and we have a hard time we had a hard time with it in
the budget how do you adjust a a pay rate for somebody whether they're new stepping in and have the same qualifications as the candidate that's that's in there doing the job today um or it's it's somebody that doesn't have
full full knowledge and understanding of the job so um but but it still goes back to that um it's the voice of the people who gets elected and and it's and it's the town resident at that point you're not you're
not taking somebody from out of town into the position okay any I'm okay now I had started the um recommendation sheet so um I I had verified not reviewed but
it's kind of like we're we are reviewing and making recommendations so from the finance committee um if we if we support this yes V we'll
be supporting it um that um we support the change to an elected position if we're opposed to it then respond in the negative and we will our vote so we're gonna respond in
the negative because we want to keep it elected right that if you want to keep it elected a no vote it's a no vote it's yes V to support it as is written this is one of those you know that's I think something that we have to
clear up on the sheet are we putting are we making sheet pleas get it right there so that will be given to people this will this is the sheet we we have started we we changed the layout a little bit last time but yes this is our finance committee recommendation right
no vote means no change so if we no vote means a no vote means we're not supporting this article to convert it to to convert it but we're not voting on this article are we um are well the um the finance committee said oh they want
okay they would like to so okay um it does hit the poet the bottom line it does hit the pocket book yeah okay no that's fine I don't have a problem with having a vote I like pocket books like having something in them no me no change right no means no
change so it's kind of like I guess a motion to um I would entertain the motion to um vote to vote on article on article two yeah for the we I will make a motion
to vote on article two I'll second okay we have a motion in a second any further discussion and I realize sequence wise if you look at other boards they will have a motion in a second before they discuss generally
go discussion before and then if there's any additional discussion okay um nothing additional requested then uh vote I vote no I vote
vote no all right I vote no and I'll vote no I'll okay I will no okay so I've recorded it it just here
I'll it later was Z4 five against and one okay uh moving to article three let's see if the town will vote to raise appropriate borrow a transfer from available funds in the treasury the sum
of 8,790 um or any or any other for the purpose of funding Thea so were your concerns satisfied or not no okay I just and I'll tell you why because when I went back home I did a search for Massachusetts to see if they
have in fact put into place uh new requirements for fire engines 25 and6 27 and they don't they have one requirement and that's for a backup mirror but it's not in the
$80,000 range they do have a compliance issue coming up for diesel engines like we were told but that's not coming on until 2027 so I don't see anything from 2022
when the actual contract was signed until 2025 when we're supposed to get delivered that satisfied his reason for just signing off to 80,000 and I'm really not satisfied with the Tariff
issue because I I don't understand why they don't know how much what what parts they're going to be putting into this fire truck that will come from Canada that will be subject to tariffs
this discussion on this particular article predates even you know whose mention of tariffing everybody um correct so therefore we $80,000 and change uh predates the
knowledge that it's going to happen except unless you went back to happen to listen to any of the thing it said last during the campaign season that's the only thing you might uh go by but no and that's still you have a contract
you have a contract well that's what I say but that's apparently not what um there was an escalation CL in there though no there wasn't there's no escalation I I
haven't I haven't read the detail myself but the meeting read it he he read something he read paragraph n paragraph nine says for compliance issues taxes and tariffs the increase
would go on that's not for materials which is what the amendment says my issue is I don't think we have enough information yeah but I do think that we need a fir track I want to go on record is saying that I'm not opposed to
buying fir Tru or possibly two but I do think that given the misinformation that we SE to it gu well and the other thing is if these contracts are being reviewed by our
legal councils why why did he weigh in on that's an excellent point I mean because this should have I mean I asked Veronica and she said yes legal council reviews everything except things like pest you know hiring a pest control
person which okay that's fine I get that but if he's looking at these contracts as our attorney he should be picking up that kind of stuff I agree and I think he should have the authority to
make put in writing questions and and to mention that it's a possible breach what what or or it's a bait and switch because we apparently went into this contract in 2022 and at the same time that we were going into this contract for New
Hampshire was receiving the identical letter that we received saying oh well she made a mistake we have to increase your $880,000 the same number which is incredible so and and the other thing I want to say to I mean you did a lot of good research
on all of this which I really appreciate the only and I agree with you on all these banners but I think at this point we need the two fire trucks and if we do and that's why I want to say I don't want to let them go necessarily but what
I want us to be aware of or twofold when we sat down with the board Nelson and Veronica both said well if we don't pay for it um then the people who are making the fire tracks are going to go out of businesses everything's going to be lost I want
well I don't care either but I want to say that these fire companies are no long manufacturing companies are no longer Mom and Pops they are now owned by great big Equity companies who don't care and so they do this kind of corporate bullying this
happens all over the country in every field and I just feel that not given the privy of what happened and what all the negotiation alleged negotiations were I don't know if we struck back hard enough New York
still has their case they dismissed based on the venue because this company has $20,000 corporate fails and their lawyer the New York lawyer didn't catch the correct one for the state of New York so the technicality of David dismissal but that's the corporate Bully
game yeah no at highest so I just two things strike me number one we're not getting transparency from the chief you back to back to back he wants the money that's fine but don't give us all these different madeup stories of why you know
you should have just come up and said you know we screwed up on the contract we we we need to pay this to get our food to get our trucks because if we don't it's going to cost us a million you know an additional whatever I think
could have been done there but what I'm saying he could have just said okay this contract is screwed up we screwed up the contract need 80 grand more we need 80 grand more but we're going to get the trucks in yeah I don't think he scw the contract up
though I think to pass but the other thing is but our legal council didn't do a thorough job of you even look into it well I don't know because I I only half believe what she I only believe half of what I
information I get and so we don't really know if he looked at them or not the other thing is this is 880,000 that probably that everyone's going to stand up and go for because but the other thing is what about the
tariffs and we have to pay the tariffs where does that money come from and that's going to be a reaction than a proactive do you think didn't he say that this was this was it and then he doesn't control the tariffs date
involv the materials for the first truck a roll in because it's in manufacturing now so told us so right so we you know from from the information we've been provided by from from fire chief that the parts for the first trucks were in
so there should be no additional tariffs coming um and they the answer to us Don was we'll deal with that when right it's kind of like yeah so and that didn't work for me no it it really doesn't because when it and I just started to
capture a couple notes from the conversations one of the things that we have to learn from from this case is that when we're voting we need we need firm prices at when we're voting them because we have borrowed we have borrowed for this truck at the amount
voted at town at the town meeting in 2022 since now we have to come back you can't go out to bond for $80,000 at the end for something you've already voted up it's kind of like we're changing we've changed the price it's a to us
it's a bait and switch to the town's people absolutely um that we said if you vote for this and here's your price for the fire Tru now we're coming back and saying it's $80,000 more oops and then are we gonna have to come back and say we need another 40 for ter um and and
that's that's a possibility um although I will say they just delayed them for a month I know I saw that but that's only till June mayil if we sign that contract now we be less than the tarff
what the tariffs of the tariffs and they're in effect you got to pay them or they won't let the truck theor has to pay did you say they were being delivered were they may or may may June oh okay was later I had May in my
head beginning yeah beginning of but may maybe that was a date to go out and see the final I just think that if we're the watch dogs that we should be getting firm and firm answers and we shouldn't have a different answer every time we ask the
same question I agree maybe we need to start looking at contracts I won argue with that maybe a person from the finance board might be should probably part of the contract reading and right and and
signature I don't know who it is now who's announced I would say it's probably between the Town Council um the purchasing which is Tom administrator at this point um and and the manager um or
department head would be would be involved in it um as far as what flows from there the treasurer has to go out and get the bonds and put together packages to get bonds funding when we're when we're going out I think it would be
a good suggestion that somebody from MH Finance it yeah yeah or there's a report back before yeah it's kind of like and that's that's the piece it's kind of like um as as we're doing this that's
the kind of information that we should be presenting to town meeting when we're voting on this is not just you know this is this is an amount in a line let's let's present the background information purchase order quotes and
and that kind of information so that there's more why does it take three plus years to I think that's going I that's leg look in the contract for one change orders did he did the chief ask for any
changes no um is there a clause for an inflationary Clause probably not there should have been obviously um because you're ordering in 22 which is pre-inflation after a decade or more of no inflation um I don't know how long it
was it's been good but it had been good for a couple long time this one's Tak me all the way back to the early the late 70s early 80s this this past inflation and a new one coming up
um so I mean I don't know how you protect yourself from this kind of thing really because this is a classic corporate bullying move there's no question about it and you know you can pay a million dollars to take them to court they have a lot of lawyers they have a lot of years go on
for years so I think what is really disturbing me about the way this went down was when we came to the meeting of the board of selectman and the fire person was on the zoom and he said he needed
this based on the escalation Clause that was misinformation and I I think it's the misinformation that's bothering me more than anything else and the fact that we still have tariffs out there looming and we don't have a plan so you
would have been better off or you would have felt better about if he just came and said that I need another $80,000 rather than go through that no I would have felt better if he had said we have received this letter what I don't know what I say but we got this letter from
the corporation we owe 80 grand I have written a letter I have in writing a retort to say that we believe you breached the contract what are you going to do about it to have some kind of rebuttal to that breach and just have his word and we know his
word is not really that good because he changed his word three times in the middle of the conversation last Saturday so The credibility is not there so I don't know what happened I think 80,000 is a lot of money I I do believe it's corporate bullying I know there's four
or five other cities that I've called they have acquiesced the New York people are hanging in there in New York but um we probably over a barrel but I think we should be very very watchful of these this particular this is a good lesson
for us to be more watch in but I do think we should have a plan in the event that we need to spend 60 or $70,000 for a tear oh maybe please God it won't happen but maybe it will happen in and then what happens do we have a plan
for if the override doesn't pass no not not yet we have to yeah that's but I think he should have to tell us rather than oh I'll deal with that when it happens or if it happens yeah no that's not good fiscal plan no
it isn't it no it isn't you're right right it's kind of like what happens if you can't pay the bill when it comes in take the right y um yeah it's going to be oh
that's just why we're here no I don't isn't that our job yes so but this is a good lesson for all of us you know being more cognizant you know contracts and maybe trying to get so how do you
how do you put this to the town's people to the voters so let know what's happening without risking being shot at night um um okay me I'm just trying to capture one of the last item I just put on here was to find
a plan if if tariffs increase the price um guess right now right now we have there is no no determined action um um well it we
um um I'm just trying to say I'm trying to capture what we said that there's no plan if the price increases so are we going to accept this with Amendment or Okay
so this says truck not truck s oh no there's two trucks truck so the two trucks and one truck is encumbered by that $80,000 the other one isn't it's only it's only one TR he said that they agreed to not change the other truck
when they when when they settled on the 80,000 for this do we have two letters and then we negotiated I don't I don't know they I'm sure because they were they said it doesn't mean anything I don't know who they are and they were supposed to give it another what year or
two or three years warant warant but that lesson was learned by them because wolf bro New Hampshire when they got there this same exact letter same wording everything it's kind of creepy so the New York they went and negotiated and the
negotiation result was the one-year warranty so the so the company got the scoop we'll put the onee warrant that's our but I wonder I never did which you just dragged my mind now I wonder if
they got that oneyear extension in writing W after the fact we got in writing in that Amendment but like they I don't know if there were two letters and he negoti negotiated W only had one fire truck and
so we we're the only ones that I know of that had two fire trucks so let me ask you do you think or do we know willbo ordered fire truck before us and the company kind of learned a lesson immed their delivery was in
2022 so in 2022 this B switch letter was going out to people I mean how many people buy fire trucks there's a lot of fire apparatus companies so see graes that's one we're
dealing with wolf bro called wolf bro's lawyer see and this is the other thing all the other towns that I talked to they had lawyers that did look at this letter and the lawyers sent the letter to Graves so so there's a paper trail of what how the town was
represented in this tobacco so we don't know if our legal council ever sent a letter we don't know Dan answer that's a good question we don't know the thing is I think if we I mean we're over Rock and high place
two we need the truck we need a truck well I don't know if we need to but we order didn't he didn't he say also that that there was somebody else who refused the increase and their truck got basically cancelled and we're actually
getting their truck this year we're getting it a year early details tell us with the name of the company you know he can say anything and and he's great at that you can't you can't fault him he's got one Silver T
and he'll he'll have the people bwing at the knee at the meeting so my caveat is yeah we should have had the why wasn't the law there why isn't there paper trail negotiations but anyway I guess live and learn isn't it yeah yeah I mean that's
that's almost like the the next time he wants to buy a piece of equipment like that somebody from the finance committee needs to be part of the con of the contract negotiation right right along we should be part of the reading
yeah I got Hood winked on the the new shed stable shed that we got a number of years ago we asked to get rear doors put in and he said no they won't work they won't work very well ETA which he was wrong so we finally had to go back and
they get at least one door in the back door I mean and um they charged just a lot of money for the exchange and it's I had to go with it I had no choice because I had to have that Bloody door you see that's one of the I need all three of them to be
honest with you that's one of the things now that Corporate America has become part of you know hedge fund in equity companies they know all these little things to browbeat people and they know that you want what you you need what you want when you have it you need it and
and that's what they rely on and we can't fight that because we're not equipped financially but I do think that the people who represent us should be representing us with full disclosure to the best of their ability and the lawyer should be involved and there should be a
paper trail as negotiations well definitely any any contracts like this in the future have to go to the lawyer but I'm not necessarily trusting the lawyer to know how to buy a car or fire truck yeah or a ladder to put on that fire truck the
lawyer should be able to look at a contract and look at a B switch and say hey whoa this is a or at an escalation cause and at least and a definition of that escalation cause because that escalation cause doesn't mean I quoted you
manufacturer I can buy this for $5 and sell it to you for $10 now all of a sudden I have to buy this for $10 so I'm going to up your feed that other five another $ five to get my $5 back and I do think that we've gone through that Co
thing where the supply chain thing is we're getting tired of hearing that that's another yeah that's dead and gone an excuse now so I I don't know how you word it because this is yes or no
we we recommend or we don't that's yeah short term is recommend yes or no um put a phrase in afterward that all contracts must be in the finance committee notes where I'm adding that's what I've been
capturing is the Y see trying to I can't read oh okay yeah so we will this get printed and passed out as part of the meeting it will right so I'm trying to capture it
there'll be probably some RMI thing that I have to have to do one as as we always do with these meetings we try to capture our thoughts um in including processing improvements that we're we're
seeing as a result of some of this un uh so how do you how do we work how do you yeah how do yeah so we we've been a vote to recommend it with reservations oh M yeah oh
okay you can say recommend with reservations I would say would be yeah and and the reservation could I mean could be some of those well it sounds like the reservation is really in the future right we need finance
committee involvement in large large purchases right that require that require that require bonding right requ bonding yeah right right this purchase required bonding so we could say you know in the future any purchases requiring bonding need to need to have
finance committee involvment right and and and again I'm putting additional documentation so that people at town meeting know what they're voting for you know if there if there was a quote for the price of the truck and and we saw that that's that's one piece um
all the Articles and what we present in to the people is is only the words and how much money there there's no backing and no background information so as we're doing a recommendation sheet it would be nice to have a sheet behind it
that said this is what the quote is paper of the trans paper trail I think it's critical for us to see is obviously we weren't getting that right and if we had them early enough we could post them on the website and it'
be available on the website I people have a right to know the I can see this coming again doesn't want say get ready closes well that's why I'm saying it okay that you want if you want a new ambulance well M let's go through these
contracts better and make sure that if this Clause is in here it's spelled out better or or it's or it's struck and say we don't we don't you know don't want that we're a municipality and we are how about doing a little bit of
homework before on that vendor right this vend has you go on you find lawsuit imediately de do v um well we can we can certainly vote I captured that uh recommendation
with reservations so um do we does do we say the recommend the reservations we can recommend well I think the reservation the reservation will be captured under the finance the reservations are captured in those notes yeah right see finance committee
notes yeah what did it say from this case our learning must be the contast which firm prices voted at town meeting with no price changes recommended Finance Committee Member part of the negotiation team and I think we should say that that Town Council should be
part of the um yeah negotiation negotiation team and we should vent the we should vent the vendor before we can well I mean we're paying him the lawyer he should be
automatically part of the negotiation team isn't that what he's getting paid for I would think I don't know I really really have no what he well yeah that's true I mean yeah is a lawyer I think that's nicely
put don't you um it it's captured maybe maybe you know like I say maybe I'll would SM it a little bit but theoretically amendments in a contract get described as part of words that follow the word Amendment
right okay what do you mean by any amendments if it's the purchaser making amendments yes the seller has the right to increase the price to cover the amended changes but there was no but there was no there were no um changes
right and this do not come from our side this came from their side telling us I'm sorry we can't make the truck for 835,000 have to give us another yeah I understand but I don't understand where that you know where because I don't know
the contract where they have the right in the contract to do it again that now you're into contract law and really in contract law right now and they clearly could have VI
it right I'm just making a note I as part of this background information we should probably have the original truck price the original article how much was voted in that Capital plan um and then what this increase is and then to
mention it that there's going to be what what did he say 120,000 for each truck to outfit it after after they come in um where is he gonna get the money for that what was that say that again oh yeah he did say that now that you say
that I remember him saying that about outfitting the truck which I I thought it I thought it came already outfitted but he did say that Saturday I can't understand hoses being replaced I really can yeah but I remember coming out and asking him directly are you taking the
old equipment off that can be reused and put on the fire truck and he said yes but I mean I do understand hoses they don't last forever I get it no do when you use them as bunker guards on side of yeah there that um so will we voting
on this um well we we haven't made made a recommendation so he um as a committee can we use the word abstain we can if you don't want to want to vote on it we we quote that vote in
sufficient data available as to what went wrong I agree that that I agree with that we have insufficient information in the end do we need to pay for it yes in but in but that doesn't mean I can jump up and down and say that's a great idea let's just keep
giving her money away I agree 100% we're not going to be taking the final vote on this the people are yeah people are so we can we can say that um some that we don't recommend it based on lack of information we could say that
yeah we could that would do too is little harsher but nicely harsher in the right direction we we have done similar in the P yes it's kind of like when we can't come to a decision we can't we find that we can't support
something we have have taken that vote and said we we came to make no recommendation on we came to vote give no recommendation we don't have to that's I like the first way was word with the reservations no the oh insufficient
information insufficient information right it's kind of like so we can't it's no du to insufficient there are still many many questions and insufficient information obain I think we could obain with recommendation with
reservations including we we know so it's up to it's up to the we know the town needs you know needs that needs to chart but um we soain is a little bit different than no I know it's a little softer because
it has a tendency to say we are very much aware of the fact that it needs to be done right we are against it being done and therefore we have to abstain from voting you as a general public out in front of us right have the right to not vote for it too right right but they
have to know why we are yeah this man is a genius with keyboard better than I am my it takes me forever to get this my horse type's better than I I've been practicing since
[Music] I think it was in June 2 745 yeah I know that's good yeah that was the next year so so okay so that was May 22 right that we did that okay um thank you nice from this case our learning
must be that contracts have to be fired yeah when I was in the lumber business we had a door and a window shop if you ordered something to be man in or would we put the door made the thing that goes in that hole where the
door is so that's the whole thing trim it all we put the wrong trim on it why do we go out of the country I mean one's in the country one's out of the country why do we just that's a corporate that's it's a corporate right now it's kind of like right now this company is doing the
final assembly test in Minnesota but other parts are Manufacturing in Canada and I'm sure they're getting parts from China right so it's I mean from China just like your car your your car has part and Transmissions come from Mexico and it's kind of like so there's this
final assembly and test plan that puts it all together and delivers it okay and right and he's and what he said that he was told was that all the parts needed to to finish the assembly are already in Minnesota so there should be no
additional tariffs on them because at the time they came to Minnesota the tariffs were not there cleared so I think that's what he's that's what he's claiming right yeah right as long as it doesn't go back over the Border because right um with with the reciprocal
tariffs if you have a part and you send it back to Canada and then back there are terrorists that go both ways both ways both ways now it's kind of like so it yeah it it's kind of like tariff can complicate things and and can we put
that we would like to have a plan in event of tariff additional fees for tariff right yeah from him I mean somebody okay somebody
auth if somebody comes to my house in an ambulance and I can't get my hand on my pistol fast enough um and he hauls me away he's going to charge me a th000 bucks it's going to
cost you $800 $1,800 oh it's up it was a th000 bucks the last time one had to come oh we talking about the the we're talking about the the the ambulance receipts oh okay now okay what I mean
he's borrowing the money from the ambulance receipts how he's going to pay it back I don't know it's saying that we're GNA borrow I believe borrow the money but the payments to repay that debt will come from ambulance receipts much much okay borrow and take the
so what are the ambulance receipts available for besides paying for the ambulance and the EMTs that's all the ambulance receipts can be used for okay so so much he talked about giving us giving an extra $100,000 to the town
yeah last August yeah you talked about it on Saturday but it was part of the town meeting right the special town meeting in August um so that 100,000 could only pay for EMS or Fire or the vehicles but
freed up $100,000 in general fund that we could use to support the the trash and and the other things that we using for kind of so so truly the ambulance receipts is a special revenue account
that can only be used to support to support the department that it that is generating is that EMS and fire or can that go in both directions it fire and EMS there is one Department you don't have a
separate fire and a separate EMS um all the people are within and it that's why it's Fire EMS so the fire truck is part of the EMS and therefore part of the ability to be part of the ambulance receipts right okay
excent no no no that's we're still yeah exactly far out that and find your your email but thank you um while I'm talking about receipts you you would sent in what happens if we have ex yes yes so I I asked the
question yeah I because and it's really more out of curiosity how do we with it right and because my question is basically what happens if we get what let's say we let's say we just we pass the budget at is the over right goes in and what we came up with Saturday that's what we're operating on good nice okay
fine we move forward and we've got you know we've based it on this income and this outcome well then all of a sudden let's say what happened let's say we get lucky and by July more people are buying purple bags
and instead of 40,000 a month we get 50,000 a month so at the end of the fiscal year we got an extra 120,000 income from the purple bags what happens with that income what is that inome how does that in that income goes into the general fund yeah
and then gets certified in the following December and it becomes part of the free cash okay so it so it's not available for use in the fiscal year where it's generated has to become part of the certified free cash in the next year in the next year well that's fine good I mean yeah that's that that's what I just
wanted I just wanted to know that and it's going to we'll see that with um the the um lots and houses that were right optioning that that Revenue comes in but again it's not we know how much we sold it for we hav't check we deposited it
but that wasn't part of our Revenue that we submitted that we budgeted and said this is what we're going to get and this is what going to get so now we have extra in in in the general so the extra gets basically pushed out for use for in the next year as part of free cash and and which
also has restrictions on how you use it um right because you have to you have to vote articles to to allocate the free cash right yeah yeah but it's one of the little pockets that you have in your cargo trousers the manyi pockets yeah
yeah okay so we did get a couple of extra yeah but when we were talking about Revenue would kick me I couldn't find the email to respond back to it it's buried somewhere in my inbox so so what have we um so we have
to vote on article three right or we we can um or do we have to or can we just say we're going to abstain and leave it at that no I think we should say yes no or somewhere in the middle okay right so um
I was yeah and I was just starting to capture what we were saying the finance committee could not um okay well committee could not make the termination of this article yeah there are many unanswered questions well that's fair um right it's kind of like
um and under the the notes I'll list what the questions are put your notes in there um um and and so we we should still have a vote right we should still have a vote that we we want to make no recommendation on this with the
appropriate wording MH if um in the recommendation sheet okay so I will move that that we make no recommendation as a finance committee with the wording that's typed in up there on the sheet I'll second
that so we have motion to make no recommendation for the article for the fire Tru had second any additional discuss or questions I know we talked about it
quite a bit before nothing being heard a roll call vote and in the affirmative we are the a a vote in the affirmative is to for the finance committee to take no action to not
recommend a not make a recommendation on the whatever your words are up there right yeah right yeah I I yeah can get you a copy of this if you want toker yes car off
yes yes Grant yes yes it's [Music] unanimous we're not saying no but we're not saying yes Wishy wasy right down Wishy oh I know we don't have enough
information know and right have enough information what year what year did this particular letter of the 80,000 come in um I think 2024 calendar 2024 but that would be yeah so so it took a long time to get to
the finance committee came in like November December well we don't really know when it came in because I never start we never start okay there good thing there's only articles oh my goodness what about the
one you well so article four I I don't understand article four um is just if is just asking the tal people that are at the meeting do you want to see a presentation from North midle the
slideshow yes then then Article Five is the slideshow no no Article Five is approprate before is asking the town's people and and it's on two pages so it's kind um speci town meeting
voters and then North midle sex Regional School District budget do they want to see a presentation from North midle sex if the answer is no then North MX doesn't make the presentation and we go right to Article Five the answer is yes stand up and make
a present make a presentation yeah up on how long does it take for them to do that um 45 minutes 45 minutes well and then there's the questions it's kind of like we'll be there all night don't
it doesn't seem like we need to take a position on this I think we exctly I don't it doesn't seem like we need to take a position we don't I I I I put not reviewed on this we did not no recommendation I will tell you one thing
though the nooba Valley Tech does have a breakfast where she invites and she has a tremendous slideshow I don't any went to it well you would care you no it was phenomenal
andain everything and she does it well enough ahead of time so that you know you have time to digest it and and you get it I think that the the high school should take or the district should take they don't have anybody to
cook we don't have to have breakfast but I think they should have you know rather than um just dump it on us like they did and then those horrible meetings that we attended where everybody was ready to shoot
everybody and then the Ash and falling I what did they do did they close the school I mean they they scream the Ashby screamed about this school so the next thing you know Bing is Clos and tons of people are screaming about that school and now it's back to Ash
believe why would they close ASP that's a hell of a long way to truck people it is you're talking elementary school kids yeah kindergarten J and I did a Recon on Sunday we decided Ash should go to bitburg because pitchburg height is
exactly four miles Center CR m is exactly six month and and maybe there would be some school choice parents that decide school choice if if fishburg is accepting there's a lot which they're building out
there and it doesn't stop I mean just because they lost that part of the building off building the wing off doesn't mean it doesn't I know but that that we don't have we don't have to we don't have to V
several times a year hopefully more this year okay I head out to taond deroga the only way to get to taond deroga is up through Ashby at 119 it's the only way to get actually if you're
going only as far as Keen that's the only way to get there um and um that trip from asby Center to Spalding is one hell of a drive Oh you mean long
I'm driving a 27,000 pound truck and horse trailer okay that's the average loaded um and at one point in one of my drives with my brother-in-law we came pretty close to
going straight where the road goes like this um because there's you know no little Mar what yellow markers or reflectors to say the road's going that way well so it kind of snuck up on me it was long back you know three and a half
hour ride out a three hour ride back to that point and plus the whole day you know doing presentations and it snuck up on me that entire Serpentine road is pretty darn
bad and not to mention they could be up on the hill on on the Hills off the main roads it's kind of like they have to get the kids from their homes to his to a center spot and get them and get them to tell they're gonna be on I don't I mean until until the
state stops screwing us the school's stuck with between a rock in a hard place because if they didn't close Ashby this number would probably be double it would possible it would be higher yeah I do understand the problem with the state what I don't understand is why the every
town in the state isn't you know doing not the kind of protest on the steps of vegan Hill but uh but a similar you know getting together getting our representatives in one room democrat or republican I don't care and
say they're not allowed out until they start fixing the school systems that they've started y because it's 120 Town supposedly in the whole same fix so we all those Representatives that's a lot of Representatives theoretically and I think somebody here
knows that I'm telling the the I'm accurate um when that school bus comes by in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee my daughter doesn't get on that hasn't gotten on that since before the
um Co she went from Co to Francis Parker um and she's never coming back yet as far as I know there's a seat on a truck for bus for her that is no not responsible fore
there you have a when I've been in the automobile business in the 70s into the 80s I know how to under staff as far as appointments in order to take the emergency kid there's no reason why
there shouldn't be uh a full bus less a few seats in the event of somebody or a re evaluation of how the busing are going to do in the middle of the year when somebody else comes in and these little go-karts that run down the road
with school bus written on the top of them those are for the special needs special needs District not District where I come from in Pennsylvania special needs also meant Superior kids you I don't think they do up in
Massachusetts they don't in Massachusetts plus I think the state mandates that they'd be for every child that mean was it's a mandate it's it's but it needs to be unmated when I said we need to tell we
need to tell the state I don't I see us all arguing here with the selectman here with the towns people here but I don't see any of us getting together with asby and Pittsfield and everybody every other
120 towns these should be reped 2 yeah that's what we need to do but we can't solve that here tonight so I know we can't but where do we start but those those are the pieces and and if you look at the the seats on the bus and then go
down to any of the schools when they're getting out or dropping off it's kind of like there's a line of cars in in a backup traffic trying to get in and out of the schools and every one of those students when the buses running they're
running practically empty um because of all the alternate Transportation but nobody's willing to give up the seat on the bus just in case the car breaks down they can't get there in snow whatever plenty of re to really can improve on
the transportation cost without running into a situation but the the situation is is the Mandate of the seat on the bus State doesn't give us any money they don't give they don't fully fund the transport and you don't get competitive bids from
bus company to bus comp can Sol it's kind of like so those are the pieces they we're not necessarily going to solve them here but and that's just from the Transportation side not all the mandates for in the classroom um and
they they don't they the funding is per student cost they don't work at the cost of the region and what it cost cost to to run the budget so the formulas they use to provide money and again we used to have 4,000 students in the North
Middle sex District right there are 3,000 students now so the fact that we have reduced the student population by 25% is kind of like that's why it looks like we're not getting much money year overy year is because the population is shrunk but the overhead in the schools
hasn't it's kind of like so that that's where you you have to and really get everybody to to start looking at the the formula calculation may be off it's kind of like with the the unfunded mandate so
it's it's a whole it's a it's a whole sorry it's kind of like so we we're not reviewing article four Article Five is a vote on the overwrite um I don't really like the way this is
worded I don't understand it well remember la la I remember last year a big part of the controversy was if you didn't the override was targeted to the school not the town budget if you didn't vote for
the override the town budget didn't change but the school budget had to change and that's the way this is worded here again but but we but and when we were talking Saturday it was kind of like these two things are tied together this 1.3 override is for the town and
the school not just for the school exactly and that's the way it's written because because it was written the the motion was written before we got the updated assessment which dropped it to the 1,
10,666 not asking for three no we are because we needed to to make because the budgets we were dealing with on the on the Omnibus budget and and said we were going to take the remainder of this which is
323,000 um and use that to fund the town operating budget so it needs to be clearly stated some and I tried to do that here is documenting what the current assessment is I didn't put it in I just
put X's for now um but the current assessment that we had on Saturday is the number we need to put in here and talking about if there is let me ask with this y you know this letter about the debt
assessment of 1.25 6104 okay yep so let me let me let me call up is that different than the overall school budget or that's in addition to the school budget let let me call on
with us so we need three things we need the school the general fund and trash or do we just need the school and the general government school and general government government so do we get a number for the school and a number for the general
government so I have a question they didn't split it they should have split it out that way should split yeah three ways General School trash um trash right now
yeah they the the rest the rest of the Town operating budget and and I don't it semantic wise we call just one part of the government the the general government the rest of it is the whole town operating budget it's the public
safety it's culture and recreation it's Public Safety culture okay so we we okay we we started with education let me finish with education then we'll we'll go to so school both schools right d so
we um I'm highlighting up here um we have two lines for North Middle sex we have the assessment that we have for their operating budget and then the exempt debt so that 1.2 million you were just reading 1256 104 is the debt
exclusion for the building so do you subtract that from the 14,000 or add it um if if we're looking for the total it's the two of them together we're looking for the total bad news well again the the
the debt is going down year over year because we're paying down the principal no I understand that but still we still have to pay it in a year it is we we still have to pay it in the year and then n has the same and again the the assessment is the ongoing budget and
then the exempt debt much like what we have in the town operating budget we got the debt separated and when BL you when they were voted they were voted as two and a half overriding exemptions so they're listed separately so that as you
do your math and and add it up they're excluded from the proposition 2 and a half assessment you need it bigger so the school it's is 15,
29353 is that towns share or is that the full that's Town share the school is going to be about 66 million oh so what was that again Mary Jan was 15 million what was it 29353 I added that y okay my friends
know I don't add but no those are good it's kind of like did you do it yeah um if yeah down on down on the bottom when I highlight two cells and bring them together down here it highlights what that total is oh I got it right nice you were perfect yeah
great Y and so the education assessment is all four lines two from each school one Exempted from Two and a Half the other we have to squeeze into the two and a half budget so when we vote for the so we vote for the two schools as
school as education as education okay yeah so the the black areas that we highlight in the Omnibus those are the major sections so that's why you see education is the black so if I filter on black
um you can see the major the major sections so we had General government we have Public Safety in the education highways and Street Solid Waste Human Services culture and
ret oh I remember when we did this and then the debt and then the insurances again it's kind of like it's the first time you're seeing seeing it and then you started for the first time put together on Saturday so General government total yeah does that include public
safety education h no so what's General government total okay if I if we look it goes down to line 253 in the Omnibus so I'm going to get rid of my filter what's it General General
um General government yeah and so here I'll filter on Gray you're so good with the spreadsheet does not [Music] contain I have more okay so what this
does is breaks it down so that we can see it's the board of Selectmen it's the finance committee accounting Board of assessors Treasurer collector the legal Mis okay town clerk elections register SE um Street listings conservation mrpc
do the planning board zoning board land use facilities um that gets us to the end of General government so how much is that b together oh okay well no no no it's kind of like I mean I
can certainly go back there it's kind of like um so we we can put it together so that that one all together is one 1,921 hey you know what it's kind of
like let me let me get these to you oh I see it's kind of like so um right that's the sum of all those that's the Su of of those departments that he listed on yeah understood yeah so if we want to see how that building
block was put together we can um we can go up and and we did that on um we did right it's kind of like and I think this is not Nelson's version of it this is the version that I that I copied so
if Nelson has updated anything so now why is the number on the bottom 12 when so does that number exclude the school no yes okay so if I highlight this okay you see that I I took the total of the budget right and then subtract it out to
schools to say the town amount of the budget is 12 12,51 16,000 so do you think that the voters I mean I know how I feel about it as a voter
but as a group do you think that they understand this oh they have no no I don't think they do it all but you know what I as a voter all I care about is how much is my taxes going up I don't care about the 1 million 34 I want to
know what my taxes are going to go off right in the end well yeah you probably want to know that before you even go to the meeting which you'll never know but but but that's what I want to know and I asked that at Nelson and he tried to give
me CRA well we can work on that how do you feel about that day I mean's right the bottom line is what you really want to know but but every everybody's is going to be different and there's a different impact and if you
add it on your house this year you might see a higher increase than me if I didn't add on to my house it's kind of like so you can't necessarily 100% pursue it but what you can do is say this what this is what it looks like per thousand and then you
multiply it by how many how many thousands your house has been valued so so you asked me how feel frustrated because I don't think there's a whole lot we can do about this because all these contracts are pre-negotiated people have an automatic
increase all this kind of stuff so you know fire fire you know I I'm frustrated because I don't think there's anything we can do except suck it up and take it
because if we vote no okay fine then then we're GNA basically be throwing throwing people out and I mean okay fine we have to if we throw people out we have to throw people out yeah but then then everybody's going to be bitching about where where of all the
services well so and I mean it's it's like we we we as a finance committee as far as I can tell we have no control all we can do is say well this is what's going to happen no we can't do that we absolutely cannot do that well but we
can't because we can't say we we if if we could go in and say all right the town is in a horrible Financial condition we're not giving raises this year we can't do that if we could do that we don't need an over maybe we can get rid of the closing
Clos but we can't because that's negotia contract well that now that's the thing I think that we can recommend I see I don't understand how you get the recommendation part and where where any Authority or any information that we have gets to the people I do think there are things think that there are
definitely Cuts I I think there's probably $400,000 worth of salary cuts that you can take out of that budget really and I'm sorry people might lose their job but I really do because I think there's a lot of what's the word friends and
family and and they being protected I don't think they're particular she talked about consolidating departments that might be something to do if it saves money the does who looks at the clothing allowance you can't tell me
that they're buying boots every I mean that's a lot that's a lot a lot of money the problem is we we can't just say we're eliminating the clothing anal because because it's negotiating the contract but what we can say is we want professional negotiators
to represent towns and not the board Selectmen and the Town Administrator well that's what I was going to one thing I was years ago I made the recommendation in this room not this when we were in a different room um that the board of selectman it should be in the town chart a board of Selectmen
can't do anything without the advice and consent of the finance committee not that we have a vote not that we have a vote but that meant you have three plus balance seven or six or five people
looking at a problem trying to pick up because we have lost a lot of money in this town just by contract being um very badly laid out whoever and I think that that's one of the big things that we I don't know
we as Finance can we but we as people should be saying you know we need a we need a real negotiator because those Union guys they are top notch what if we had um a vendor do you want jackets you
all get the same jacket oh yeah can get a uniform he's got to buy you got well usually that's why that's why I don't understand why there's not a
Massachusetts site that they go to to buy to buy this stuff because the federal govern has a has a site go it probably wouldn't be a whole lot cheaper though well no you're right because in some instances because they might they
might get they might get the per un cost down but then the state would probably had a whole bunch of on in the federal government there was all kinds of I always I always used to say fire me because I'm going to the cheapest thing and I'm not following the rules and just I just went to my commander and said I
think I can get that better at the PX than you waiting two weeks we get so I think there's things we can do but I don't think that this committee has has um well they've never asked us well I don't think they no we've got to tell them we don't care what they think we
have to tell I I guess have to goine at the contracts and find out when they um remember anything but there were certain uniformat s that probably Contra for whatever we were looking at for
whichever department for a person that didn't need a uniform allowance I'm sorry well they sometimes get out of their car oh my God and get renegotiated so who does that that's the
problem who does the rentia yeah I don't know it ad and for the accounting it's way too expensive oh I think Outsourcing is horrible oh yeah terrible especially for
the services that we get from what about Guardian they probably cost us triple to what we if we had somebody yeah I think the things can be done people we have to be included in
their negotiations they have to because we're not including show the two SEL are on every single sary board in the town well they they're they're on the boards because they they were Le on when when there's a
third they to work no no no I mean they're on board as me you know right heads anyway back to this article okay how do take um now generally do we want
to recommend how people vote they prop two and a half or do we again let let the Town members vote the way we are we we don't I don't I would like to say yes vote two and a half but it's kind of
because that would allow us the flexibility um of not having to um take this million dollars or 1.3 million and if it does if if the school budget gets
voted by the two other towns have to pay we have to pay it and if we don't vot the override that means that you have 1.2 million more that has to come out of the Town budget what it mean more so last school less less less
if if the other two towns vote the North Middle sex budget Townsen is responsible for our amount 16,000 16,000 million yeah 16 that's at the polls right but that yes so who go last on the on the
10th they all go well this everybody goes the the same um as and on the on the same I thought they were a week off that's town meeting for the election for the for the yes for the election and and that's so
there's two parts to this right there is the town meetings and we're all having them March 10th but the town it has to be followed by a town vote it has to be on a ballot Peppo and Ashby don't necessarily do the same town vote dat that we do no they do they for the
annual for the annual yes it's in part of the school contract because we have the school committee members okay thank you yep y so we're gonna vote the school is a little tiny bit out of our hands because if pepper and Ashby
vote Yes then we have to pay the 16,000 million million million sorry so what is I like her you know so what is the difference of the What's the total of the override 1.3 million
1334 yes but that includes the general fund well well but if if we if the if the override does not occur the 1334 million has to come out of the Town budget if the other two town
if the Two Towns approve the school budg if two towns vote no on the school budget the school budget doesn't pass we responsible for it yet the school has to go back and and do it over do it over but which is what happened last year
doing that I mean and again this this this is the dance every year right but they could just reduce it by a dollar and come come back and say you know here it is it's you know one 1,334 they keep coming back until we
vote for it oh no well the number went down last year each vote I think didn't it yeah a little bit each time a couple hundred thousand each time but in the end it was 150,000 I think was the number higher
than what we were trying to we had come down that we thought we could afford 55,000 question you we just spent a whole month talking to all these directors and all these whoever they were and looking at their budgets and getting an idea why if we cut that cost
there you cut that how come we don't have that same thing with the school because the school does the school committee do that yes that's the what the school committee is supposed to be doing so the school committee would be the finance committee equivalent looking at for the school not the town right I see that but they came
down what they did come down yeah right and and they they were talking this is with school closure so so we need 1, 335,000 on the it's on the article it's on the
handout y you don't have to article to think about it no you don't have to think about it $1,334 for general fund budget expenses right and and again they're saying for the north M sex Regional School District operator and transportation ass the
town okay that doesn't make sense so okay so so it's for the it's for everything it's for the general fund that's what I think I'm trying to say I want to separate school from the general budget no you the money to pay whole budget which includes schools comes from the general
fund so so okay but that's so what we're talking about is doing an override to put the money into the general fund to pay this 1, 33498 to the schools it's kind of because it has to come from that bucket
of money we don't have two we don't have the school fund and the general f we have the general fund and we pay all the different areas of the budget from from the one so I so the source of the money comes from one spot right but the but
the the ask is from two places right the school okay so this started with the ask from the school for the assessment in February now the assessment that we saw on Saturday which is now March reduced
it by 3 300 some, yeah 300 some thousand so so the number in the in the warrant is a little higher than the actual need for the line in the ONN us budget but we left the number as it was because the
warrant was already written and we were short in the in the onnibus budget that we did so the extra 300 we said well we can use if we leave the if we leave the article the way it is and it's approved then that extra 300,000 is going to help
us balance our our general government budget okay yeah 300,000 right so it's it's not accurate to say this 1.3 million is only for the schools that's what I'm trying to get yes that's what you want to know what pots actually
going to the town versus what actually is going to the school right so the the one so if you look at the details from the finance committee I think I put in
there that said the um it's going to be 1,10,000 and change for the school and [Music] 332 you sure did it I lost it so um but
so we go [Music] from the school town was 3 334 332 was it did I did I not I only got it on okay sorry yes so the town would be the 3:30
doing change it'll be back up in a minute here 19 1 million 10,000 in change was anything decided about the trash not yet
[Music] um hey the Board of Health has one thought and the board of Selectmen have another thought um so I won't say it's a single Consolidated message the only thing I
think we really decided on the trash is that if this was approved we are going to continue the bag program okay and then the only question is do we to go the flat fee contract or do we go to the contract where we pay for the tonnage
that we throw out okay and the cons the the The Balancing Act is the flat fee the flat fee rate yeah is probably going to be higher than if we pay for
the tonnage right but we don't but it's possible that the tonnage could go anybody thought about making a $5 a bag to start with to help with that Yes actually the thought was to add a $100 fee on any on anyone who was using who
was who signs up for Town Town trash $100 fee for the year this year I think that's going to go over like a lead balloon I think if you say we're the selectman just pointed out that you're GNA pay ,750 for to
bags and that's it okay okay we weren't happy about it but we kind of sucked up and went and you know by increasing the price per bag that you buy H Wheels definitely cut down on the the tonage is hauled out of here uh
trash truck came by today I have one horse bag full of uh that's a 50 PB horse feed full of all the trash for the last two weeks I did not go on today's truck because I still have room in that
blacked that purple bag to to punch stuff in you know we have small little Barrel about so high she puts the horag in and every now and then as it starts to fill up I actually climb in you put one foot in and jump up and down so that
stuff pretty compacted yeah I'm going to you know I know what a trash compactor cost if you go to Lowe's and I also know that they break five weeks after you buy them yeah pretty much so my leg hasn't broken yet I'll keep stick with it the people don't
get to vote when they're not they want to do TR think we did vote don't you remember we voted a year ago saying we wanted to pay or whatever we wanted to pay for the trash and then all of a sudden they said they had no money for trash and we went to
the purple bags that's what I mean how does it get on the ballot that we we just don't want to do trash Oh that we don't even want to do it I'm certainly very much against anybody putting anything on a ballot saying we don't want tra I came
here how many decades ago so it's been a while yeah there is 6 maybe 88 February 28th 2008 I made it official no longer Pennsylvania Pennsylvania got the first
two months of my income tax that year and the rest went to the fools down to Beacon Hill I thought Harrisburg was bad okay so on Article Five I I don't know that we we don't have a choice
not Accord to what everybody we don't we don't have a decision yet on on a decision of how they're going to go so if you don't have a decision on which bill of price you're going to have you don't know what this what the steps
forward are see that's where that's where it's bothering me we have to make the decision very soon so that because we can't have people buying and it's not just people buying purple bags we we we're going to use the purple bags until the end of June at least we also have to
have the revenue streams in the flow we have to let waste zero who manufacturers the bag know that we're planning to pull a plug on it we have to let the vendors know that are buying them we don't want them to have no not yet it's kind of like if
there's no decision you can't you oh they want to know what's happening May 10 March 10th and then they'll make a decision rather than be prepared they're going to wait until okay but then again the Arles there's no trash on here no no
no no but but what happens with the override is going to have an impact on the rest of the operating budget if we have to cut$ 1334 million from our town operating budget the place you're probably going to start with is the trash even though
there's some Revenue with the trash um it's still about a $400,000 Gap that you can cut 4 you know say 380,000 right out of the budget and then you stop looking for the rest you g to cut it very close though because say
this passes now yeah but you really don't know till the April election when it goes on the ballot if if it really we and and that's why we we talked with for of selectman that we should have two
budgets one that says his this is our budget if it passes that's what we going to do but then it happened well we just we just got the first budget done on Saturday it's kind of like Oh I thought we were gonna do the whole thing no we well I think we talked about doing the
whole thing but it was then by by the time we finished the first pass it was 3:00 oh right yeah I couldn't take anymore it's kind of like yeah so are we gonna have another we're gonna have I think we're gonna have more joint meetings with them and and will we get
the picture of what happens if it doesn't pass and what's the budget G look like I'm gonna now that I'm thinking about it I'm going to see if I can find that Waste Management because I asked Nelson about that and he kind of indicated that they didn't really have a
contract and I remember this thing no with Waste Management to make the purple bags because I want zero so he says yes because I know when I was on the
trash Comm committee yeah those was Zero they said they wouldn't start manufacturing the purple bag till they signed a contract so I don't know so those those little pieces we we said they the waste
zero in a contract we may have with them there's the logistics of doing it and then there's all the revenue and everything has now this money that they said come in actually doesn't reflect the price of the bags because we haven't gotten an invoice from them okay
we we are getting the invoices the stores that are selling the bags are getting the invoices for the bags yeah because they get they take it off the top so so so waste waste zero will manufacture the bags the retailers will
order the bags from waste zero they will pay waste zero for the bag right and then was Zero takes their cut off the top and transfers the remainder of the money to the town account I think it
was I'm just going by memory okay but I think it was 35 cents a bag so 35 cents a bag times all the bags they sell throughout the state of Massachusetts no well but the was you know n of it was we were getting 40,000 a month right from
the B you mean after the badge were for and stores were paid for we were n, we got 40,000 a month yes what was our gross cost the number that the state is willing to per month to get rid of
that trash that has been valid get on get it out of here State validates your income that was I don't know what the number was for last year the number that we have in for next year sorry what so anyways what are we doing with
Artic we making no recomendation okay that includes all theend but so get $780 for the year to pick up many last time I saw we added on the top
number number D take he charges $780 80,000 and we had a 40,000 come in per month right okay hang on hang
on we got a couple I think the best thing is to not because if we recommend we're basically tell them tax payer yeah go ahead and increase your taxes I say don't I if we say vote no now we have to
come back and cut 1.3 million 1.3 million what I mean why can't we we're gon we're gonna have to plan for that but call you must come right and great just like
that I say we vote no and we that way no I no I'm saying that we should vote on whether we do or not and I just feel that it should be up to the individual voter whether they want to raise their taxes or not raise their
taxes not telling them we're recommending which is different than well but even recommending I kind of feel like this one's a neutral one like the other one yeah yeah but if we say don't Rec if we say no if we don't if we don't
recommend then we're saying don't even send it to a vote that's correct just no we can't do that yeah it seems like I don't know that we can I don't think so vote and and will say one no five yes
but very very similar we didn't we didn't recommend to the to the towns people that they either vote for the CPA or vote against the CPA that was their choice whether they wanted to vote but they looking to us to get information to
make that decision they're not asking us to vote for them they're saying what do you guys think about this how do you feel about this what are your recommendations after you've looked at it because we don't have time to look at it the CPA not really it's all the same they're
asking us no no they're not asking us our job is to give them a recommendation I think that to say nothing Y is to cop out our job and I think we should take a stand and I think we should vote and those of us who want it should say yes and those who don't say no and we tally
that vote no we can do that I think that's the only fair I would like to add a little bit here y um having to do with what has happened since 20120 especially since 2022
um it well surpasses our not measly because it's always bothered me that every four years I've my taxes going up you know 10% um um not including the assessor coming by and making it worth
more um and I'm we meet the school with a two and a half override this year we've got a lot of like to stand on say we help you with the
um uh the you know your the fact that inflation has been hurting you very badly now it's your time to help the damn people who have to pay for this school and I'm not sure they're helping the people that pay for the school last time when I heard this the only people
that were really let go um were the people that have to direct hands on kids you know oh you're talking about the school yeah the schools well I well we just I'm decided that we can't do anything about the school because of the school committee right but we can do
something about the government yeah know we can help tell the school committee and then and the school committee and the schools themselves we can only pay you so much we have already given here's your override okay here you go take your
money this year okay up our taxes it's not going to be a terrible pain except for like I said 10% every four years my taxes have increased period there's no such thing as an under 2 and a half% yeah
automatic unfortunately I believe they're probably going to come back from another override for the schools correct it's like it's never ending why are we talking about the same thing all the time why don't we have that plan we got to do that plan of what we're going to cut at the school
so had for school what when was the last override we had was it a year or two ago last year the school it it did not the school for the school it's kind of like so yeah well that was the state problem that was you know the state said we'll
give you you know all this money if you build it from scratch right otherwise you have to work it out yourself we're not going to help you if unless you build you know re we actually wanted to build it bigger and they made us build it smaller well but we also we
also made us build it period it's obviously the right answer if the school population is shrinking it's kind of like not to not to have built it but if we look at just the North Middle sex assessment last year it was a 5.6
increase this year based on the number um and the change is 7.76 it's going to continue along those lines see that's why I think that we should make a recommendation we say no because it you want tax well see and and
there's the balance you g take everybody individually you have to take every and there's if we say vote no for the schools and the other two towns vote that the budget's good we now now we're looking for the million
dollars and so what we have to do is if you don't vote the override and we and the other two towns do there's so many ifs ands or Bots it's probably more even more confusing of of how you're going to get
there um and again it's it this is just the special town meeting to vote the article to put it on a ballot and then you're going to you saying we put it on the ballot we're voting to put it on the ballot that's all we're
doing are we gonna whimp out in April and no no I think I think I think we need to April well April is when the vote is this just to get it on the ballot this this is this oh yes to get it on the ball I thought
okay the voting at the polles is for on it so back back to right and which one comes first doesn't matter to meeting and it does on the election it it doesn't pass a town
meeting it it doesn't go to the election go to the election right if it passes town meeting and not on the election then it it doesn't has to have a yes vote for both right yeah so both both have to be yes in order for it to you say no to put it on
the and just not put it on the ballot it doesn't go on the ballot how does it get but I think you can still put it on the ballot first you can put it on the ballot first but then you have to have a second the town meeting right so then you have to have a special town meeting somewhere in July or August to vote if
it if it passed on the ballot when it was there fails at The Ballot Box goes to town meeting school budget is passed and we're on the hook for it we can always go for another override so right so got go for another
override after that so damned if do yeah it's a mess yeah a mess and there's no so tonight all we're doing is just saying you want ballot that's that's the main piece for
here then we have to say is we vote Yes to get on the B and we're working on the we're working on the budget scenarios for what happens if the override doesn't pass and we have to cut Town Services now the budget we put together even with
this if it does pass is cutting $250,000 from roads for the paving it's kind of like it's already cutting quite a bit of stuff we we cut a total salary out of the budget even though the position's empty right now if it was to be filled there's no money to pay that
so we can't hire h000 that Jimmy Smith was never going to get anyway well I I would hope that somewhere along no but I mean the reality is he was not getting it came here and sat there and said I know I'm not going to
get it but I'm putting it on any right, it's not necessarily a false figure what we have to do is present it that's $250,000 with all the PT balls that are in the ru in the roads would you like your roads to continue to be just patch or would you like some real work done
and and we've cut out the real work and we cut off the real work except for the chapter cmpy old Pole road that it was years ago that slow traffic to U borrow $5 million and you
didn't have to take it all at once you could take it an increment till they voted it only lost by like 20 votes you know right but you're GNA had nice roads yeah right but my thing
is I'm I'm a cynic so that $250,000 that Jimmy wants we might vote for Jimmy to get the $250,000 going to be scooped up and spent somewhere else well it it shouldn't no
right if in his budget he should get but but but to the to the the person who what is this keeping it open if we don't have the person that you keep it well don't hire another person but that's that's the piece if you don't have money you can't hire a person
supposedly um but if if the the idea is that if you don't have a person in the job and you don't put money there you can't hire them you can't hire it you can't keep it for that year but you can do it next year but but we know we we don't have a plan that looks past this
year we have oneyear budgets presented the whole issue right it's kind like but how how are you GNA go from where you are today to putting it in let's show the money in there next year but we Al we have to guess what the revenues are going to be but can we
afford to put it back next year if we take it out this year and I don't know that we can yet it's kind of like um because again looking at all the numbers look you know if you guess that the school's going to come in and look for another 5%
next year um or we we up the number of students we send in to the to the tech it's kind of like and that increases it's kind of like we we don't have scenarios and we we don't have anything past looking at what we put together for
this year so that's why we've been trying to push um we had that conversation with them and they said they do it and by they so if the override does pass y we get everything that's on the sheet on the on the bus no no no everything that have numbers we
get the numbers that we had on the OM so again if if we vote the override we're still because we don't have enough money to fund everything that we had it's still you know there's still no no
$250,000 for Paving um there still that those position were how we got balance to the 1.3 override was we eliminated stuff in the general budget right we we kept going back and cutting little little pieces so we're we're
still going to have cuts and that needs to be communicated even even with this we we're not asking for enough to cover and put Paving in there um we're not it's kind of like there's there's not enough money to to put those other
pieces back in and so and and again add to it that we had another position that's being being paid for by arer eventually that's going to come in and we're going to have to fund it I don't understand what they do they
Town's responsibility but those that yes right it's but but that's the thing it's it's it's a number and there going to be an art we're going to have to C the police the fire chief salary right
now is about half what a regular fire chief would get yeah it's kind of like are we getting going to get to a point where we have to really pay a fire chief we that what's that guy's name Captain KK Captain Kirk I mean why can't e the fire assist well we we don't have a plan
we don't have a vision past this why we hire him to become a new become the fire achievement couldn't tell you kind of like is it in the plan anywhere is he gonna take the salary that the current fire chief has or is he
expec right and is he gonna is then he gonna expect the deputy chief also it's kind of like we don't we don't know what the future looks like yet how do we get to that point where we know we're doing this reactive stuff is not good this is
not right and nobody else is making a suggestion it's going to come from us I say we vote no on every and the whole thing and make them change don't have money recomend you don't pay
it and the same with the school we want the school to give us Bo s we don't recommend it we're not happy with what they've given us right now as the what do you call us the finance we're not happy with what we have for the numbers for for all of us no no I'm just saying that but are you
happy Jerry am I happy no I don't mean to [Laughter] go no I mean with the fact the taxes are going to have to go up two and a half% right so well this is two and half more
than it always goes up it always goes up two and a half% so this is asking the tax payers to go for more than two and a half% so my thing we should just take a vote vote the way we want you don't have to put your names bes
after that let them decide what they want just give them a feel what was I mean I'm not opposed to it being on the ballot I'm not either that doesn't mean I mean but that doesn't mean I'm going to vote for it
when it's on the ballot I think should go on the ballot so the people can make up their mind what they want to do that's the only just taking a vote away from right yeah it's kind of like it's it requires the two votes but again it gets into the how many how many people
think you just keep on presenting this until over that that that's the perception that the voter has unless they come to this meeting or they watch TV watch the average person that we're
taking the money from believe that we just keep doing it until until we get and it's kind of like and it's and it's you know there people that like at some point it's like I can't afford my taxes well absolutely because people
think that's GNA happen to yeah sorry I'm just making a note because I think I'm afraid my bank automatically takes what they say but I'm not opposed to putting it on the so so should we vote on the article
then to say put it on the B put it on the B that's that's that's what the article is is to put on that's what that main main piece of the article is and we don't have the motion so we don't know if they're going to drop the number we just not we just leave it
alone yes but do we vote are we just put it on a ballot only yeah or do we even vote on it and just leave it alone as it Town might I've seen iten when people stand up and point to the paper and they
say the committee said or the committee didn't say yeah way on that okay but we're just just getting putting it on the put on the ballot that's the best place for it to be numbers in there I think that's Mary J problem what upsets
me the most about everybody around this town that's part of this town voting member from Southern County Pennsylvania you vote for selectman to with a call a different name down there now I've forgotten what it was actually used to be I couldn't remember selectman I
remember that name now it's the other way around but nonetheless there were three people that run the town period and town manager okay there's no vote no nothing you either vote for that person to be that um Overlord or not and that
Overlord can do what he wants and when my father was one of those over Lords he what heed we people out here have the what I consider one of the most April when they
vote on it be able to come to this town hall and have a say in whether you bore me to death or not to say in what happens if you worry about your vote at the general election
not really mean anything fine but you come in town meeting it does mean something here you have a that's all that's all this is doing right that's all this does that's all this article does is put it on the I think what Jane
is opposed to because wife born and raised INE should be broken out I really do well whatever they are all I think it it's pretty damn should be actually
but oh the trash go well so so don't touch my trash one of the things I'll point out is the way the trash is budgeted in the omnius budget right now yeah that led to this number was the 780,000 flat rate
contract okay what about the time okay the tonnage in this in this figure the tonnage doesn't matter well that's when it should matter well right but I'm just saying the figure that we have in the budget is the contract where the tonnage does not matter they gave us two contract options
one was a flat rate 780,000 the other was 400,000 or something like that plus the tonnage fee okay yeah the the number we have in the budget is for the flat rate 780,000 okay that's fine for the budget but it's
not through through the ringer yet but what okay you do have the figure you said it's $40,000 a month we get on Trash Pack right which is 480 for the year right just going I'm down here to the 65,000 right per month cost at 780
flat right 300,000 so we're 250,000 no 300,000 m it's three 3 it's 300,000 that's that's where the 300,000 that was one of the reasons we said leave the override at 1.3 because by leaving the override at
1.3 it essentially covers the 300,000 for the for the for the trash that the bags don't cover right well I wanted the bag to raise the price I'm not paying my just due because I give it compacted understand so I've got to this
this the month I would rather pay more for the bags so that you get in your truck to the dump the least amount of trash I can send yeah so therefore I don't have to send it once a week when he comes by I can put my recycling out
which is a minimum half a big trash bag can full of the a rather large trash can full of of recyclables and and bag and grocery bags of papers get you know they all get dumped in that bucket um and it
I mean that's for me okay but I don't see why it would take um you know a master's degree to figure out in your own home how to start compacting your stuff down getting the recycling in and you know yeah I'm just saying that's
what we have that's what's in that's what's that's what's in this budget in the budget we that we're trying to hit and in between the the money the revenue generated by the bags and so so we even if if we pass this budget we still have to decide on the trash contract
we do it's kind of like there's a meeting being scheduled right now um B health and yeah and I would bring it pretty close to fixing it if we're paying um 350 a bag now and I say pay $5 a bow that kind of covers that other
22 25,000 to make up the 65,000 out of the 40 you're already getting because we're because that you know what because that's free cash that extra a dollar and a half um because you've already paid the other people the
grocery store and the people make the bags by the time you get to that $3.50 Mark and therefore buck and a half more not going to hurt not going to send me you know I got that problem's coming with with fuel in the near future groceries in the very near future so the
last thing I'm going to be concerned about is a dollar and a half extra per month or per week depending on how much trash I want to have eventually I'll get the barn cleaned out and I will have plenty of bags to go We're not gonna solve the yeah okay
so we gonna vote on on recommending article six then still or mean Article Five we still have to vote on that right we use the wording to get this on can we use the wording get this on the B yep my yes vote is just to get it on the
bot get on the words and prices are only a guideline the actual motions um that are written and presented on the floor may not reflect
this number I me um so we don't have to so we'll I will reach out and see if we can get the Motions that will be read on the FL to see what the numbers being read on the floor is going to be you mean for Monday or for April for Monday
it's not it's not going to be this 1.33 doesn't matter right now we're just voting to get whatever number that is on the ballot a warrant whether it's one and A3 million or 5 million it doesn't matter to me whether or not put it on
the ball or not could it's related to this but generally it's not higher but generally if it's if it's a number it could be lower than what you see in the in the warrant article um
motion why are we even B because because this is what you know at this particular time I think it's the best estimate yeah it's it's the best guesstimate but I still like to know how how much my taxes
if it's 40s get that after it's it's taking the total tax base dividing it by the amount we need and telling you how much per thousand we need it's it's just a simple math okay all right so what do we are we GNA vote
on this or we um it sounds like we want to vote on it to to say that we're recomend so the motion would be for the finance committee to vote to recommend um that the article pass on the four so that it makes it to the ballot and the
whole town can vote on it on the annual Town election yeah yes can you write [Laughter] that no sorry just kind of like play hit the playback button that was really good
I like what you just said I just did right fast the Defiance committee is voting to recommend that this article be placed on yeah right so why is that so hard I don't
know so it's going to go on the ballot at the whatever the number is so then an amendment can be made on the floor at the time of the meeting right either Monday but not in April because April's too late right April is the ballot you
has be done it's got to be done prior and the ballot has to be sent out to print so so you can make it amendment that the amounts be split out yes we we can ask for that part of part of the discussion yeah you want to split the two numbers is that what you're saying
so you vote on one and then right it kind of you that you can't do oh you can't do that no it's kind of um because I think that would be meaningless you think you can can I think it's been done before you mean to
make the motion on the floor or you mean um I to make it two override questions but I think you can make that on the motion on the four to divide out if there are if there are going to be actual two numbers that that make this up yeah but then you get then you have two override
questions on in the past had two over question one for the school we had two two separate ones last year one for the one for attack one for right um right so one for
middle but I think they guess I don't I don't see how that does any good because if okay if I pass the 300 and and don't pass the million but pepper and Ashby pass theirs we still we still have to take pay the million and and a million
so it doesn't really doesn't really doesn't really no but but for clarity and and transparency it's okay this this number is really making up two two pieces two two
pieces we can we can say it and that's what I tried to do in the in the not in the not separated in the notes yeah that um you know they said the current North Middle sex assessment is this Which is less than the amount in the warrant if
if the full amount is approved there will be an amount approximately 323,000 and change available for use for the town operating budget so yeah tried to tried to cover it there um wasn't specifically saying that it was trash
because it's going into the general budget right Y and so when do we get to vote on the trash do we get to vote on the trash yes we we will when when there's a decision on what we're going to do for trash we will be able to vote on the trash or the I was gonna say is
but that that becomes the issue well you'll have both on the finance committee we're going to look at it and we're either going to recommend or not recommend budget lines in the Omnibus budget going to town meeting then the whole of the
town at town meeting has the opportunity to vote yay or nay on every line that's in the budget unless we decide that trash is not going to be in the budget I suppose you can still make a motion to add a trash line into the
budget at town meeting um and and change it on the for that's a possibility I mean there there is always the opportunity to make a motion on the floor but then you won't have a balanced budget then you won't have a balanced budget unless there's and that's that's
the if you say I want to do this with the budget and increase a line you also have to have corresponding decreases on on the Flor um but it's got to fund the schools and it and it's got to be balanced
based okay so did you write the motion um I did not I was I guess maybe I'm CL a motion up there look great yeah the finance committee recommended this article be B on theot for a yeah okay so that's fine then then that's the motion
I'd be looking I move that the finance committee recommends that this article was placed on the ballot for a vote it second it okay so we have a motion in a second yes any further discussion okay then do a roll call vote
and in the affirmative we are recommending that this be placed on the ballot for a vote by the whole town D Walker yes Carol hus yes chch yes Sam Grant yes John haes yes
unanimous now do we have a vote for beer time okay one more one one more oh yeah I am oh the article six though doesn't does that does that matter to us since it's a selling property okay selling a
property the last meeting had articles 3 through 11 that we voted on to recommend they sell however this one's a little different if you look at the next page in the packet you'll see that in September of 2023 um we had actually recommended that this
property be sold there's there's a typo in that so article four on that extra sheet extra sheet it's attached not to M no go to the next
page it looks different oh oh that that looks like you got heard okay there should be one more package with a back page on and it starts on the top of the page is article three we're looking at article four no I got this hot off the
press thanks to our great town clerk ah okay um so if we look at that last sheet it's the identical property but the difference is in the 2023 it said block 10 L Zer so m 3 block
1010 if we look at article six this time it's map 3 block 18 somebody probably saw a number thought it looked like a zero not an eight and so you can't sell a property
if it's not correct if it's not correct okay so that article basically got had to get we we can't take action they can't sell the property it wasn't because it wasn't properly it wasn't properly said so this is correct that
error what8 and zero oh article article four on that page yep article four on that page is the same property this and just for those that weren't here this is the old water department building the Brown building out in West Townson that we're selling
okay because they've moved out of there and into towns Harbor do we have anybody that we think is gonna buy that um it's potential it's got two garage doors maybe somebody will put in a repair shop maybe you know there's a nice office area and two garages not pay the taxes we're going to
charge yeah but okay no that regardless though yeah so so it do we need to discuss this much um I I don't think so I I I just wanted to say show that we had voted for it in 23 and recommended we we approve
it um make a motion that the finance committee recommend approval of article six second okay so we have a motion in the second any forther discussion none being heard roll call
Vote Yes yes Grant yes yes now now we've we've covered everything um the next meeting that I'm thinking of
is March 10th the special town meeting um um that's 7 o'clock um and we should yeah it's kind of like once we get past that we'll work with the select board and see when we're going to maybe have joint meetings
because we still need to look at the alternates for the budget what happens if this doesn't work so that's next Monday uh so after that usually we we'll stick it whether
it's a Tuesday or Thursday at 6 o'cl which had been our time with with them I I should not have any conflicts from going forward from here until next fall okay I make no
guar okay some Tuesday nights not all I can make no guarantees no but we'll Monday night try to keep it at 6 a couple weeks ago no it's Monday night Monday night is the 10th couple weeks ago I had a warning I
was able to tell you and then the next day on the Thursday yeah I guess I guess I app it well after s before I realized what time it was because I stuck in not well after
sergeant um so if everybody's good with that I will contact you once we have um the schedule set with the select board will continue on I have a question about this meeting with the select board I know it's
convenient but I think it's kind of like working with the enemy because we have a support one of our purposes as a finance committee is keep an eye on the people spending our money and they are the ones who are spending our money and we've had plenty
of a number of contracts over the years that spent our money way outside the town's ability to really comp you know basically and and again we're only the fork we're only advisory and and
sometimes we have to live yeah but at least we can advise and advise the towns folk what we think about it if we're in the if we're in the meetings with them then hopefully we can we can have a conversation with with them and and hit
it so um at this point I would entertain a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second okay motion adour has been made and seconded R call David Walker
yes Sam Grant yes are unanimous We Stand adjourned