Uh this is council and finance committee. We call the meeting to order at 602. Uh roll call attendance please. >> Carol Hobs is present. >> Mary Jane Churchville President Grant Don Hayes
is five members um present. We have a quorum. So we are good to continue with the roll call. We know um Jerry Bizikas is on vacation out of the area and unavailable and Dave had forwarded an email that said he was not available for
this evening. So, excused absences. Um this meeting is being recorded um for playback on the Townson YouTube channel and also on the local TCAM channels 8 and 9 at various times. Um, is there
anybody else recording the meeting? >> Yep. >> Yes. Okay. >> Just just one. I don't have that up. So, okay. Um, at this point, uh, item four,
additions of deletions. I have no further additions. I know I modified the agenda and posted and updated because we had a slight change to make sure um it wasn't another exception. So item 2.12
has been added since the original posting was posted earlier today. Um moving into the work session. Um the hiring freeze exemptions. Um we um
now I have them in reverse order so we can see the request to head come in um >> on the second page of the handout today. Um >> and the second item on the list is actually the uh first on the agenda I
without it being much. We have been requested by the select board um to recommend an exception to the hiring freeze for permanent town administrator for the search committee. So, we would be replacing an interim town
administrator. And so, the um after after the search, >> I wanted to recommend to um allow the county administrator to be hired >> to post for so in in addition to um just
the simple request that we're we're supporting documentation for the posting and the quoting. So they they the request is to post for permanent >> with the new language that they put in there. >> I'm sorry. >> Are they posting with their new languages that they put in? >> Um
>> Don, I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt. Um I'm happy to answer any questions about this if anybody has them. >> I just did. >> Okay. Yeah. So in the in the I going to read the details of the job posting. So in the job posting um that would be
going out is the salary a range >> yep. So the job description there is pretty much essentially what it was previously. We just updated a few things made it more efficient. Can you hear me guys? Okay. >> Y
>> and um so yeah so not a lot of change in the job descriptions. just recclarifying some stuff and um the select board approved that and it's linked on the town website. The job vacancy is going to be um posted with a range of 140 to 180 to start um and then we'll see where
we go from there. >> And that's based on I I just forwarded down the presentation that I had done for you guys previously so he can forward that around to you. That's based on analysis of comparable towns and combined with geographical comparisons
also. What were the changes? I I know I got it, but didn't they add the human resource duties to that? >> So, right. >> So, if I if I can, we gave a little bit of clarification because some of it was
not entirely clear. Um, just to kind of specify where some of those details would lie. It was that area actually had more detail added to it, if that makes any sense. No. Um, can you tell us what they were? I mean, to be more specific,
>> changing stuff. >> Is it on the website? >> It's on the >> It is on the town zone website right now. Actually, if you go to the um >> go to this the town administrator page.
>> Oh, okay. So, what clarifies? >> Yep. One second. Let me just um so the beginning of the job description is essentially pretty much what it was before, just removed some repeat language. Financial management um we
just made sure to specify a little more details on the long range financial planning part. Um just brushed up the expenditure control. And then on personal management, um it's basically on the second page. I can just
go through this. Um, personnel management. Number one, administer and make recommendations on personnel policies and procedures to the board. Provide for regular performance reviews for town employees in coordination with department heads. Appoint subject to recommendation and approval by the board
all town employees for whom no other method of appointment is specified in home charter or bylaws. Implement corrective action and or discipline. Um, number five, ensure effective onboarding and orientation of incoming employees. delegating such duties to administrative
staff or department heads where appropriate. And number six, conducts exit interviews with personnel leaving the employment of the town >> if that's helpful. >> Yes, very. Thank you. >> And sorry in the meantime, and I know
it's behind you, Jane, I did go to the website and call it up. >> Oh, thanks. >> Oh, yeah. >> I was Yeah. Well, I was trying to pull it up and >> that's okay. No, that's good. Good to hear. >> That was good that she explained what
change. >> Thank you. >> Um, yeah. What? I don't like 180. >> Well, it's a range. No, I understand what it is. Yeah. >> Maybe we find somebody accidentally,
very accidentally, um, who is really capable and confident. But I mean, do you think 180? I mean, we don't have good luck hiring these people. I mean, our track record's pretty bad >> because our track record is pretty low. But >> I don't think that's the only reason,
>> but I I think the range the range is comparable to what I was able to see out on MMA. >> I understand that, Don. And I looked at it, too. I just think for our town and our size, I like to stick with the 170 rather than the 180.
I mean, and where do we go from 180? >> I mean, well, if as the town administrator, the interim town administrator said 2 and 12%. Because that's >> Well, okay. >> It's kind of like So, if you sign a contract with the next town
administrator, we have to this >> Well, I think we have to keep that in mind because >> the 4% the 2% the uh >> union wages going up, the automatic if if I if I can. So I I'm speaking for
myself here and not the entire select board in this circumstance, but based on conversations we've had, the the the increases per year would be the two and a half% based on tax levy. That's our intention. >> 4500
180 >> if you get that. Well, you know, that's going to be why would they go why would anybody take the job for West if they thought they could make 180? >> Can Can I explain the range a little bit? So if you can imagine uh a world in
which you get a very seasoned town administrator or someone who has a lot of uh executive and administrative experience versus someone who if we don't get anybody like that and we have someone who is less experienced or no
experience at all that would be that range. Now obviously we have to the select board would have to negotiate and the screening committee would have to pass those individuals along if we felt they could fit into the role but that's the reason for that range. It depends on the quality and the experience of a
candidate that we get. >> I understand that. Um so I asked a question at the meeting that we had that was joint blackman. how many candidates you have at the 125 when
we hired an Elsa and it was told that we had 22 plus a great one that came in late that we didn't hire. >> So, if I can give a little background on that, I think uh you have to realize when you get 22 that some of those
candidates were immediately removed. You can't have, you know, a remote town administrator working from Kansas or someone who applied that doesn't have, you know, any experience in organizing and leadership. So, there's going to be
a certain amount that we're going to get a large number of candidates that don't even make that first cut past the screening committee. So, I instead of looking at it as a total number of candidates, I'd like to look at it as the number of qualified candidates that we can put forward to the select board.
Well, >> none of them were qualified at that very meeting. >> I think it was well well >> sugar. This is just this just my opinion. I
think 180 >> at this time >> given our dire straits financially I think that that's >> I mean >> you know if we get somebody and they turn out to be fabulous
>> let's count our blessings and and give them the perks but >> see it's kind of like that the perks were taken out as far as the cell phone the car allowance those those things so it was kind of like it just moving it and bundling it up all in a in a salary.
>> Well, that's not a good idea to come back though either because so if I can that's all that'll all be part of contract negotiations. We have we have that number up to in the budget, right? And anything else would have to come out of that select board
budget somehow. We're going to have to negotiate that in those negotiations with qualified candidates. So that's just our intention at this moment in time. how it plays out in the end is part of those negotiations with individuals who we whom we offered a job to.
>> Yeah. What were you saying? >> Yeah, I understand that. But you start if you bundle everything into a salary, it's not good because the raises come off of the salary, not off of any car allowance and that type of stuff. Yeah.
So, so it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily be if you look at >> order and Kathy, please finish. >> Um, okay, never mind. >> I I think if I were to continue, I think you were trying to separate the salary
and the raise from the salary versus the expense items that allowance, which >> right any of the the perks, so to speak, >> right? >> Um, I just think it's better that way. We had another department head that when he negotiated his contract, everything
rolled over into a salary. And I don't think that's a a good thing to do. >> I agree 100%. >> I agree. Sounds reasonable. >> I So, we're supposed to recommend I make a motion we don't recommend the range 140 to 180.
>> Is that what we're here to do, though? >> Yep. Well, it's I I think >> Well, can we make a recommendation? >> I think we can make the recommendation that um that we go with the posting now
>> I not to influence and give my opinion. I was thinking it's kind of like my my my thought was the 175. It's kind of like >> Yeah, I like 170 175. I think 180 is going to jump from 125 to 180. It it is a big jump, but
>> that's assuming we're going to get Superman. >> Mhm. Right. It and and that's the piece. But if we don't and we make an offer and it's 140, then there's >> room. >> Well, I Yeah, I understand. You have to have that range. You have to go the high range to budget for >> budget for it. It's kind of like so
those are the pieces. So I wanted my my thought was not to go to what the total in the budget was um but to go a little lower to there was some room and if there was negoti and and generally they they they have
dropped in um and depending on on where you are um and and again if if we go back prior to >> go back five years >> go back five years and look at the salary that it was then we were 135. It's kind of like if we had continued on
that trajectory, we're already well above the 140. It's kind of like but because we had >> made offers to less experience and people with no real town administrator experience. >> Eric's legal didn't have it.
>> No, he did not. He was he he managed the um u like assessing and and zoning in low. So he he was he was in the in the assessing >> with the law degree and municipal law that he was he started in the the city
solicitor's office and so he had quite a bit of experience around. >> Yeah. >> But he he had only done a budget >> with within the one department or one group of departments. Um, >> he had budget experience and and he had legal experience and and he had
municipal experience, right? >> So that's pretty experienced. >> Yeah, that is >> coming from LOL. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. LOL is >> LOL is one little department. It's bigger than our whole town. >> It and and it could be but but those are pieces. It's kind of like he he was he
was not a an executive. Um I he he ran his departments but he didn't run an overall city. So um you know those those are the pieces. It's kind of like um and so when you when you make the decisions and you hire we we probably took the
salary and it was reduced. When when you had somebody that came from assistant director of a DPW it went even lower. It's kind of like and you're hoping that the person's going to step up and do the job. this kind of like and so I think
what we're looking at here is that we're looking to get true town administrator um >> experience coming and I don't think you'll >> you'll get it for you know the the numbers that we're at today.
>> I you know what I I can't believe that the the world is so tough and turby people don't have jobs. Um people are leaving left and right for municipalities. I mean, >> like three people just left me. >> Mhm.
>> Boxboro and somewhere else. Um, I don't know. I I don't think money is the only answer. And I don't think dangling the carrot big is going to get us the best person. I really don't. Just my opinion. >> I think 180 for our town is too high.
But we don't have enough money. That's $50,000 more. Oh, I don't know. Wait, what is it? 180. Yeah. >> $50,000 plus or minus more than what we have now in a budget that we're squeezing >> and that we need other things as well.
>> Right. >> And and again, I look at it and this is this is the first step. I think if we look at the other departments as as we go down and look at the pay rates that we have in there, if we were to lose the
person and then need to fill it with a with either um a new person coming in, whether it's hired or whether it's a vote or um where we are, those you know or go out to bid for a job, those rates
are going to be much higher than than they are in the budget today. So ultimately we we do have a big budget problem. Um town administrator is only one of the many places where where we could have issues if if we had to and
and we look at it you know we and we're we're doing it a little bit with the accountant with this year we there was a salary that was somewhere near 70,000 with benefits and a $40,000 contract. Um, so that was the total compensation,
but when we posted the job, we weren't getting candidates in that were ready ready to to take take the job, had the qualifications, had the certifications. Um, so that's I I understand that the 180 sounds high, but
>> um, when you look at what we're trying to draw, it does need to need to have that. we have to count on the select board during the negotiation process to try to keep it >> well now there's a whole different issue
because they they chose the last group of them and that didn't work out so well so >> probably more comfortable with going like a high of 170 >> I think 170 is way better than 180 I mean it's not that good it's only 10,000 difference but
>> it is 10 somewhere else >> exactly That's my point. If we were flush and everything was great and we had a lot of money go. >> Yeah, maybe 180. I mean, but I think 180 is high across the board for the state.
>> I think 155 to 175 is more in line >> or I'm sorry, 14 probably 135 to 175 is more in line. >> I think 180 is high >> for us. Yeah, it's you know what? Like I would like to have a Mercedes. Sure. But
you know, I'm driving so Sometimes you have to make a concession >> and we're not making a lot of money. I mean, >> where are we going to get the 50,000? >> Well, the 50,000 is is in the budget
that was prepared by the interim town. >> Oh, they kept it at 180. >> They they it it was in the budget presented to us at at 180 and um Well, it's it's there to cover it. >> Well, they're going to do whatever they want. It doesn't matter. But I make a
recommendation we don't go to 180. I say the range between 140. What? What? >> 140 to >> 140 to 170. 172. >> Don't wear a line there. >> Yeah. I just think 180 is too high. And
and and I I am also in firm disagreement. The dangling of big carrot get you the best candidate. I I I just don't think that that's necessarily true. I think you're going to get the best sales pitch from the candidate.
>> Well, I mean, how many times have we interviewed people? Well, I don't know, but I have and wow, this is the greatest person that turns out to be the stud of the century. >> So, the vetting Yeah. Yeah. The vetting and the in the review and the process. >> Have you shared what would get you the
best candidate in your opinion with the search committee? No, I'm not on the search committee, >> but you there was an open public forum and they're also still taking comments online for feedback that they're looking for to help identify the characteristics that will bring the best character.
>> I'm not saying that I know better than them. What I'm saying is that I know that there'll be a sales pitch and I don't think necessarily that the highest number is going to get us the best candidate. It doesn't necessarily, but that's where the the review the reviews and
interviews are supposed to try to weed those out. >> I understand. >> But when we look back at the candidate that track record, it's not great >> starting from where it yet. >> It is not. >> Yeah, exactly. Let's be truthful because
it has not been great. >> Well, it hasn't been great. And that goes way back to like 2004 from what I understand. We had a really good town administrator. He he asked for $5,000 rates. He was right out of college. $5,000 range.
>> They said no. They hired a guy who did not have any experience making $5,000 more. >> And it's happened a couple of times, I believe. >> So,
and at least the one that they did hire was very good budget-wise. He's a financial director. Uh so he's very good budget >> and and and there's also retired town administrators, retired people that
would come >> that might come in might come back. >> The chief of police for example in town >> retired >> from New Hampshire and he came back and took and his salary is pretty reasonable.
His contract's up for negotiation. >> His contract is up. It's kind of >> Okay. So, let's um >> I know you don't like it, but that's how I feel. That's the motion
I want to make. >> Thank you. >> I share and I feel my whole screen. I'm sorry. Thank you for checking. >> Okay. Uh, sorry. I didn't We have two two hands up. Um, I didn't see who's
first. Um, um, we'll do it alphabetical order. Cindy, you want to >> Actually, I'm going to defer to Val because she did have her hand up first. >> Okay. Thank you. I was kind of like, >> she outranks me, too. Thanks Cindy. I appreciate it. And I
didn't mean to interrupt earlier. I'm just It's hard on Zoom for me to see I couldn't see Kathy talking and hearing everything. Um yes. >> So just for the uh point of reference, I do recommend anybody who wants to give a public comment to the TA screening committee to do so. Um that 140 to 180
came with a a good amount many hours of research. Um not lightly at all. Um I'll give the example probably the most prudent run right now which is West Boilston I think there's so many in my head right now um who has had three interim TAs in the past year set past
calendar year um and they have a 140 180 range and when I talked to their interim TA right now they're expecting to hire at the highest end of that range and that's where they're probably going to settle. So that was the basis for that range. Um there's the other comparable
that was lower 167 Rutland was uh only 4 day week town hall. So there are you know other options for that type of position. But at this point in time um I'm going to stick with that 140 to 180 as my recommendation based on the
research I did. And I did send that PowerPoint to Don and um I'd encourage you all to look at it and just um look at those comparables in their salary ranges. And then we do have to take into comparison geography because we don't want someone who lives you know 2 hours
away to make that commute and if they can jump to a neighboring town for a pretty significant increase that we need to just take that into consideration. But I'll let you guys deliberate because I have to go because it's my Tuesday off this week. So thanks a lot everybody.
Thank you. Happy Tuesday. Um, uh, to comment on what Valley said about Boilston, West Boilston, they've been looking for over a year. My guess is there's other factors involved in that town that we don't know about that's pushing it up. You know, it's
like comparing apple to apples. We don't have all the details, right? >> Yeah. And and Yep. town of Berlin which is only 3,400 people their high number is 175 >> what's their average income
>> I I don't know >> is a part of a five district school system >> it's probably when you're that town that size and just to see the market and having done the search a few times in my own town
>> took us a while to find some that was of any remarkable And it was money. I it and he drives 45 minutes every day to get to our town hall and we pay him $10,000 in mileage on top of his number already
and he's almost at 190 in >> I would say average income indeible. It's higher than isn't it? >> It is but you guys are three times the size. You have three times as many tax. >> Yeah. Richard
>> people with pain. >> I'm not all the part of the variable. >> There's also only one union in Dunable and there's five >> 400 here. >> Yeah. I mean like it just adds the complexities of the villages. Important
to be mindful of that. >> Okay. Um Cindy. >> Yes. Thank you. Um, I just I mean I want to refer back to your agenda and I think if unless I'm misunderstanding something, I believe the select board asked the FINCOM to approve a waiver to
the hiring freeze and they weren't asking for an approval on the job posting. I think that they're just looking they just want to be able to hire somebody because you got everybody did this hiring freeze and knowing that there's a town administrative position and and Kieran's only holding down the
fort as an interim until another someone else can be hired. But then they implemented the hiring freeze and now they need a waiver to it and know so that Kieran can either apply for the job or move on with his life and we can hire an experienced town administrator from from elsewhere. That's number one. And
number two, I I have to say I've done my own research on this and after living in this town for over 40 years and really kind of knowing the the work product of the town administrators that have been here that um and and knowing what's going on out there in the world in other
communities, I I'm I'm kind of concerned that is 180 enough and I think it probably 180 is probably fine, but going I I mean in the actual hiring, I mean it would be up to the selection committee to determine the the level of experience
that is the minimum standard that they would want to hire. But um we we're hurting. We we haven't had a a real experience administrator in years. Everybody's been a fillin and just you know some people have a variety of
experience in municipal government, but nobody has come in here for for years that hasn't that has been a town administrator before. and based on all the problems that we're having, you know, mostly financial but other issues that I think you're all aware of that
having a a seasoned experienced town administrator is critical to many of the problems that we're having. And rather than have somebody that doesn't, you know, oh, that's a new one on me. I got to look for solutions. Let me I got to check with everybody to find out what I should be doing. No, we need an administrator that that has seen this
before and and really knows how to do things. I think Karen is you know an expert in some areas and then but and gee even Nelson had his strengths but it was DPW not you know town administration I mean nothing ill will towards Nelson
but his experience was not town administration and but we need somebody that the select board doesn't have to worry from day to day and that and the fincom you don't have to worry and as a citizen I don't have to worry that I want the town administrator to be able to handle problems
not, you know, without having to scratch his head and say, "Oh my gosh, what do I do?" I they they need to actually know what the regulatory guidance is and know exactly where to look things up and having, you know, know maybe seen these things before and some of the problems that we have might be nothing to them
and but we have to pay for it. We can't afford to get somebody that's just moving up from another position in municipal government or coming out of private industry. We need somebody who's been a TAN administrator in the past and that salary range has got to be the
executive level and I think it's about 170 180 and I can't I I I I fear for if if the selection committee determined that they're going to hire lower I'd be worried about who they hired but um I I just think that the executive level
search for this position is is much higher. But I mean I I just based on your agenda, I hope that you guys just support them getting exception to the hiring freeze. And if you having a budget conversation is a whole different conversation and maybe could be had at
at the um selection committee's meetings which Valerie just invited everybody to. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, Cindy. >> Okay, then I resend my motion. Did you make a motion?
>> I did, but nobody seconded. So, that was a motion. >> So, just submit. >> Okay. >> So, you're dealing with the hiring? >> Yeah, >> we're dealing with the hiring increase and we can make
>> Why do we have a hiring like had exemptions? Like, what the heck? >> Well, that's >> you know what a joke. I mean, for this one, I I get it. I mean, >> it's nice to have a temp administrator. >> For other things, maybe not so much,
>> right? >> All right. She just >> And and those right those those are the pieces, but we've been >> You need one cook to know how to make it put all the pieces together. >> All right. So, that's it. So I make a motion that we we approve the posting
for the board of selectment to post for permanent town administrator. >> Is that >> approve the exception to post? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Say that again. >> Approve the exception to the post for a
permanent. Okay. >> Do we have a second? I'll second it. >> Thank you. Any further discussion being um a we can do voice vote since we're all
in person. Um a vote in the affirmative is to vote for the exemption to the hiring freeze. All in favor? I I all oppose passes unanimously. Thank you. And as mentioned, if we want
input, there four different places. >> Yeah, got it. There we go. Okay. Next on the agenda is the um um exemption for water department summer interns.
In the top of that piece, um they're looking to rehire three interns that have been there before and hire a a single new intern. So that this exemption to the hiring is for a total
of four four people, three of three of which are basis with these people out of the water department. >> They are. So, they have nothing to do with the town budget >> except for a couple of little overlays having to do with paperwork, >> which they take care of by doing the
transfer, right? The annual transfer. So, yes, it's very similar to what were voted for. >> Where do they get paid from? >> They get paid from water receipts. >> They're paid interns. >> They're they're paid interns. Yes. Takes
money. They will be doing work but they're paid from the water enterprise fund. >> Yeah. Which is increasing the rates because why >> Yeah. >> Well chemical I think I think you'll see that the chemistry the chemicals are getting very expensive
and >> I kind of agree with you Mary Jane that if it's if it's taking money I mean this is the water takers month. >> Exactly. Exactly. which is a smaller pool where tax pays which yeah because I thought
this started out the insurance started out with a grant didn't wasn't it a grant that they were paid for at the very beginning >> may maybe at the very beginning but um I know the last few years they've been paying from the the enterprise um
the only thing I was going to say I know looking at it I don't know every job they're going to do but I know a couple years ago if anybody has noticed around town all the fire hydrants with the different colors, the blue post with different colors, the green and the yellow. >> The interns went out and did that work.
So, we weren't paying the full-time staff to do it. So, they're they're coming in. This this is a place that if somebody moves out of out of the water department, they've got experience with them um and and they're introduced
into the water treatment. I think that's a very good thing and and and I also think that it it's a when you can you should >> I don't know the 5% raise which I oppose
vehemently. >> Can I can I say something with this? >> I'm sorry I didn't >> like I'm not going to finish. Thanks. >> Okay, let let >> No, let him go. Let him go. So, so the interns are paid allto together $10,000 a year. It's the and
the same it's been the same$10,000 for six years there. There hasn't been a change and one of them is only one day. So, and they're and each one's limited not to the whole week, only a couple days a week.
And it gets them it gets them experience. It gets them building the red. They actually learn how to do the treatment plant. So this this is not something that is a expensive item and it hasn't gone up for six years. It's
been the same amount of money. >> The first time we we've seen it because it's an exception to that. Um I will ask because we we had this with the um recreation department on the
reappoints that are in here which is the rehires. Is anybody on the list there more than two year two years or more? um as whoever was looking >> on the three Dave, do you know? Because
there's separate there's there's different requirements when they're when they've been rehired. Um and I would assume that that they're considered permanent part-time >> for for us. >> Yeah. For the
>> these are three uh these are all high school kids in in in town. They're all towns. They're all high school and we work with high school to put up what I have no idea what the recreation department does, but they
>> they pay a lot more than their staff is much bigger. >> Yeah. No, no, no. It it's it's not that. It it's the fact that people are considered um it's it's their employment status. Um when I say permanent part-time, that would be their the
employment status assigned to these people. But when it's permanent part-time and it's more than two years, there's requirements um that they get registered with the state. That's all >> right. >> So that's that's why the question about is anybody gone beyond the two years on
the letter as a on the reappoints and again that's something you can you can follow up with if that's >> we don't know the answer to that. Does that matter? Um, >> does it matter for this?
>> Well, I guess the other thing is if somebody takes another job or is is it going to be that for these specific people or or is the request for a total of um similar to what we did with recreation for a total of four?
>> Oh, right. Right. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, was this already posted? And when was it posted? >> Okay. >> Well, no. Okay. So, the question for David is was it was it posted or did you just reach out to the schools based on
past history? >> This is posted >> when was it posted? >> It was posted at the out on the um on the board and it was posted at the high school. >> Yeah. when
>> about four or five weeks ago >> cuz see you're comparing this to recreation and I think it's a total different pool of money because recreation has a revolving account. >> The people who use recreation are the people who are paying those kids
>> versus the water takers are paying for this. Is that right? >> I don't think so because that's I'm >> um want to take >> what are my services from this?
>> I don't know. >> You see what I'm saying? Where if I have a child that goes to summer wreck, I'm paying them for service. Okay. >> So, I think it's a little >> Oh, I see what you mean. Oh, that's very interesting. That's very interesting. So you're saying that this is superfluous
kind of that we really don't need it for our service. >> Well, yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying. >> So it's really like a social justice for the schools to help the kids. >> And I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but >> you know, money's money right now. >> If they've been doing the same $10,000
for six or more years, it's appears to me have nothing to do with any raises in the in the water rate. >> Yeah. that the water rate raises have to do with the chemical. >> We know that's true. I mean, do we know that's true? >> No, we don't know that's true, but we they accepted in every town meeting
since for the last more than six years. >> Oh, you mean? >> So, I know with this come in the rebate from them to cover the paperwork that the town does for them uh and all this, you know, all these we going to get
these exceptions. the exceptions whatever they are. >> Well, for once I can see this is only the second one and this is only um uh these are both both this and the last one with the wreck um is has everything
to do with these temporary people that are getting hired to be paid out of money that's not have anything to do with the budget. The budget doesn't go up or down if you hire these two people or not hire these two people. >> Oh, I get you. Um, right. >> Yeah. So that
>> so it doesn't affect the budget. >> It does not affect the budget. >> But what didn't you make that motion? >> What motion >> about affecting the budget? We didn't want it. >> It it um we we did make it but um or we
discussed it and it was um >> I don't think we're talking about the same thing we already talked about. Yeah, >> we we really are because you know this this money is >> it's not affecting the budget in any way. >> It's not affecting
>> does have excuse me water does have indirect costs to the town and they contribute a certain portion of their budget to the town via indirect costs. So in this sense because it's an exemption there are still indirect costs
that I think has the opportunity to deliberate on as Kathy was bringing up a point and Don's bringing up a point in terms of whether you want to be supportive of the exemption that does have indirect costs to the town
money back to the town >> to cover all the paperwork and the stuff that the town That's an indirect cost. >> Okay, fine. So, they're still we're still being paid by the water department. So, therefore, the water
department is wholly contained, including buying services from the town. >> $10,000 is not going to be >> it's not going to raise your water rates. >> Indirect cost your water rates. They're
taking they're absorbing services from payroll for >> so by you they're adding to their burden on the town by adding people here because it's going to put a burden on payroll but you get you get to decide if you want to improve that cost as an indirect cost.
>> Yeah. And then but then theoretically that indirect cost increases by these four people, five people, whatever. It it may it depends what their portion of their changes are within >> that also ind
the same kind of role on those ind you know when they recap recapitulate them at the end of the year >> people would be the point of the value my opinion that's why I'm asking you to get my head straight not yours I could
extend if I needed to >> um I don't know every increased >> I just feel really >> on the town payroll it's not it's not one for >> it's not one for one >> I mean a good argument for
>> what'sever left over is not going to break the budget already broken >> all these sales pitches >> now these people are necessary to train the next generation on how to make water >> yeah they making water is not easy
>> to the initial meeting, >> but they were supposed to because Karen said that he wanted them before the certain date and they it was ignored and so now we're sitting here doing this. >> This is another issue that you know the rules. Did you know that you
>> say there were three requests that came in at the time was highway, the police >> and >> recreation >> and recreation. >> Those those were all in at the appropriate time. >> Correct. if because you asked for you
had a deadline and so and so this is a non this is this >> this is probably the first one outside the deadline you're kind of >> the first one we're going to get >> well didn't we get the van driver or was that >> oh yeah the driver >> the man driver yeah >> so yeah
>> but I think that he I think that guy quit after >> the issue so Right. >> Well, he doesn't need four. He can just use three >> his re appointments. So,
how does that return for two years affect? um the the return if if somebody's more than two years, they're supposed to be registered with the state because they think they the idea is that if you're paying somebody part-time and you they're permanent part-time, um
you're trying to hide and get away from benefits and things. is Henway. And so they >> even even though they're kids even though they're >> even though they're kids >> even though and they work like the intern >> and they work like one day a week or two days a week three months that seems
>> it it seems weird but that that was really >> Yeah. It was explained to me that we have to be, you know, if we are to keep current with um the requirements um with the state that we should we should be
looking that's one thing we should be looking at. >> So how long has Anna Bowen Lucas Cassadian and Connor Dini been working for the water department? >> Okay, so that >> this will be their second year. >> Okay, no problem. Yep. All right. So,
they're within they're within the window. >> And again, that's not necessarily for us, but that's just a double check for the department head that we're following labor practices. >> Well, that's a good idea
to follow the labor practices. >> Once once we know what they are, we can attend kind of like >> all right. Yeah. No, >> we just like got to do something. Yes. >> No, we have to do something with this,
right? >> Do we have a motion? >> I'm not making a motion. >> Okay, I'll make the motion. You have to write it. >> You have to write it. >> Two motions. >> There's two motions. >> Yeah. There's one to hire a new person
and there's one to return to three old people. >> Well, it's we hire. So again, I I think it this hearkens with recreation. I I understand the names are here, but if one of them decides not to not to accept
and start, should we just do it as >> Well, yeah. I wouldn't put the names there just You're right. Just in case one Well, you >> because they really need four people. >> They know. So, so just so you know, they're going to be painting the tank
this year. >> And that that usually painting the tank is about $50,000 and you know when you hire it out and we're going to have the kids do it. >> So, it's going to save the water department about $30,000.
>> Yeah, that's understandable that just as soon as you say hire out. >> What tank did I paint? >> Highland tank. Which >> time? >> Yeah, there's one on the Oh, this one up
in the >> All right. >> Okay. to I'll make a motion to approve the approve the exception for one new hire
>> up to up to four. >> I I think we did for recreation up to four >> up to let them figure out how many rehires and how many >> um positions >> hire rehire positions.
>> Yeah. Or at least it a little more. Yeah, >> possibility that if like I say if one of them determinates that they want to be >> there should be in term position. >> Okay. >> Okay.
And the motion is to approve the exception for up to four higher rehire intern >> intern positions for the water department. >> Do we have a second?
>> I'll second it. Okay. So we kind of wanted discussion. Any any further discussion questions? >> No, we just have reservations about this whole hiring freeze. It it has nothing to do with the water department. These
are probably great kids. They do a good job. It's going to save a lot of money. But this hiring freeze, it's at a point where bring it to us and we'll just say yes. And >> well, everything so far has been outside. It
was outside money, >> not spend budget money. >> Yeah, they weren't increasing. >> I still pay for it though. >> What? >> It still comes out of my >> water. >> Water money. >> Oh. >> Oh. Do you have water >> in the ground?
>> No. No. Are you on public? Are you well? Oh, so you don't care. >> I do care anyways. >> I'm on I'm on tunnel water. I mean, I do care. >> No, I hate, you know. Yeah, but I think the water department >> principle of the idea of the freeze that
that's one issue and this is a very common thing in town. You have rules, you put principles down and then you have people that just say no. >> This is why I wanted to do away with the hiring freeze for everybody that wasn't
on the actual pound >> which was their recommendation. So, and and because it makes no sense to keep coming back to do exceptions when it's not an exact. >> Yeah. >> And we voted for that council.
>> We did. >> We all voted. It was unanimous. >> We unanimous with the other board. >> What other board the select board stuff? because I wanted to know be in the loop of what exactly I
>> kind of like being in the loop because I don't know other words we cap the police department at x number of people they don't all exist at this point right >> right >> okay but there is a cap on that all
right um we basically have a cap with the hiring freeze on almost every other department. Okay. So therefore, anybody that needs to be an exception, whether it's on the budget or not, such as a replacing a
very important person that just quit, we need to talk about it before, you know, before we say yes. Even if every answer is yes, it's been studied and gone over. I've heard great ar arguments from that end of the table and
reasonable ones you all not much from me. uh about the fact that we need to go over these things and and then approve them because one, we're not increasing the budget. We're filling a hole, but we're filling the hole
>> for the town for the town's benefit and the town people and know if they want to figure it, find out somehow um that it's at least been gone over. It's been looked at by town >> administrators such as the finance
committee and the board of selectment. It hasn't been left to the board of selectment alone. >> Well, that's valid. That's valid. >> That's a valid valid. >> Yes. I agree with you there. >> Yeah. Like >> Okay. Anybody else? >> No, thank you. I'm fine. I have to have
dinner when I get home. That'll spoil it. >> So, we we the motion and a second. We've had some discussion. Any further discussion or questions? >> We're ready to vote. >> Box says yes. >> James rightfully. Yes.
>> Oh, Kathleen Spford. >> I know. I think I'm going to abstain. I just don't think I can. >> Yeah, >> I know it is. balance though.
>> It has nothing to do it's process. >> So get it right. >> Just so frustrating and this is the first time we've gone through it. So it is a process we've done. We can maybe improve as we
at some point or is going to be a motion to at some point to remove the phrase. I went over it. >> Well, it's safe for work. I mean, theoretically, >> what positions?
>> What position has been asked for? >> None except >> who quit. And who are we replacing that's on the payroll? >> Yeah. >> Right. and and there may maybe if I understand it right from town meeting is
could be another police officer position coming in because we voted two to fill at the time and I believe there's been one or two resignations since >> so we may have >> we have to talk about it again fine but as far as I'm personally concerned he's
capped at x number of positions and and administrators ced at a number of heads He's got he's got X number of heads available to him. We've already talked about the fact that you need every one of those in order to run kind of decently, if not
efficiently. >> Well, kudos to to Bob Garside for losing his administrative assistant to retirement. I mean, he's >> retired and he's trying to do it without her, >> right?
>> He's following the rule. He's Yeah, I have not coming in even as a replacement, >> right? >> With with a replacement report for somebody that was already in the budget. >> And yeah, >> that's correct.
>> Okay. Um, we're all set, >> Dave. And it we've made the motion to recommend the hire and we'll recommend that to select board and we'll sure it
will be on your agenda in the future. >> Okay, moving on. Next item. >> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. Thanks. I'm giving you the answer to the board of health enterprise fund review expenses and
revenue. So um these are the long sheets and I will tell you on 0 and 12 by 11 um last page on 8 and 1 half by 11 is
um because of clicks I tried to keep it down and 8 by 11 so >> um so it that's that's >> February. >> Okay. So let's if if we go back on the
first sheet um >> the long sheet >> the this um yeah the first first launch sheet um is the actual I I didn't print the tab name on here so I will tell you this this is the and I'll just share it
for people online >> this this is the actual >> we didn't get it yet >> we we didn't get it Yeah, it it came in. So when the report was run, it didn't come in. The re the revenue for the bags is going to come in. >> So that's that's why the actual looks
the way it does. So So the first sheet is is the actual revenue by month through to February. So you you can see this little trickle of um >> So should we so we shouldn't really include February as the program fees,
right? >> Um >> thank you. >> God bless you. >> Well, the revenue revenue is is the new still people purchasing stickers and then the revenue for the bags. >> Okay.
>> Okay. The revenue fees of the sticker. >> Yep. and bags >> and well the second revenue bags is >> the second line is revenue bags. >> Yeah. >> First we're oh >> first
of course oh revenue fees and revenue bags. Okay. >> So revenue fees is for the sticker in the bags. >> We don't have the bags for February and it's kind of like Marches should be
probably posted around April second. So >> people are still signing up for >> a sticker >> the program. >> Yep. You can I mean it's >> it's not prorated. Correct. >> It is not prorated. >> Okay. >> Right. >> People might have moved into town maybe.
>> Right. Yeah. >> Or people might have figured out they can't get it the other way. >> And again, this is our first first year. So the rating may be something. Um I know other towns do offer a pro rating, but when you get to a six-month period, it's kind of like there's
a reduced sticker price for the remainder of the year. So that may be something that gets gets offered. >> So they brought in 470,2750 >> total >> for all the revenue and all the bags,
>> right? Now if we would have >> and their expenses are 423,500. So they got a net >> 26683. It is. >> See that? That went down from the >> Well, let's if if and and I know it's
behind you. Um if I put in say I >> can't read it anyway. >> Yeah, I'll I can go around. So, if I if I would have put 24,000 in for the February bags, which I can do this >> bring it up to the brings up
70. >> So, yeah. Bec because the revenue for February wasn't in this report. I mean, >> yep. Got it. >> So, and this does not include the 160 that we're >> This does not include Y. Yep. That would No. >> Oh, you mean the total revenue,
>> right? >> 160 from there. They own it. >> Right. Okay. Wanted to be sure that it wasn't. >> So, that that was I don't want to hear about it coming back together for the either. They're doing a good job. Yep.
The next page is um very similar but this this one is called projection. So they're projected out for the rest of the year. >> Okay. >> So you'll see that the act actual are
there and February's revenue for the banks is showing at 25,000 and they've just done a flat 25,000 out for the remaining remaining months. and and then not expecting the the uh sticker fees.
>> Now, how long was that contract with the hauler? Was that >> I'd have to look. I I got to go look. I thought it was three years, but that >> three years from last year. >> Yeah. So, this would be after year, but >> Okay. >> Um I'd have to I'm pretty sure it was
three years, but I'll go back and and confirm. >> Yeah. I'm just curious. >> Yes. But I have a question on the waste department. Mhm. >> Did they have to come back and beg us again at town meeting to do continue this? >> I don't think so. >> No, because it was set up as an
enterprise fund. So, it it is going to continue to run as it is. Okay. >> Um they had presented us what their FY27 recommendations were. Um and we reviewed that a couple of meeting a few meetings ago. um and showing um what they're
>> so they don't have to go back to town meeting with any of this enterprise thing except to maybe tell us about it. >> Exactly. I think I think that would probably be a good item to to put in there because um the enterprise fund is going to continue to run and uh they're
going to start offering the stickers for FY27. >> We know what those fees are yet because they sent out a flyer. >> They they sent out a flyer. They didn't tell you what the fee was. Well, I thought it was 150. >> I don't know. It's at the meeting where they presented it to at the board of
health, the sticker was going to be 15. >> So, it goes up up and again that's just for the individual house. >> But I also want to say that is not going up because the 125 is only for 10 months. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> So, it's really not going up. >> It's really not going up.
Yeah, >> this year people will think it's going up like >> the cost of the sticker is next year will be 150 but it's for 12 months not 10 right >> and it really would have been 150 last year had started this year.
>> Mhm. >> But I think it's important people know that >> yeah if they're hearing us >> to be clear. So that so still the projections um >> with with that and with the fixed um
>> yeah and and again the looking at the numbers um the trash tonnage and recycling tonnage are not broken out on the individual lines. You will see it's just all included on the on the waste services. Um the
breakdown that we we get for that is in the um um is on the the last if we look at expenses on the last of the big sheets. Um >> is the last of the big sheets is this
real? These are real numbers or these >> these are real numbers from February. These these were pulled by a fountain being put together >> 765,000 what 755 what >> that's the total budget for the year. So
with >> but 2026 or 27? >> 26. >> Okay. >> And so um you can see how much by month was was spent and you'll see the the weight and they still no they're still not broken
out yet. So um but you can see the um five month each each of the prices and this is this is just a further breakdown >> and eight months into right. >> Yep. We're eight months into it through
February. >> Four more months, >> correct? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, it is it is still going going well. But that's just a a different breakdown of the of
the summary. This is this sheet is the breakdown by each each of the account numbers that were set up for the enterprise account for them. And as as they keep putting things in, I I do have a question that I'm going to go back with.
Um there's something in here that says additional funds voted at annual town meeting >> of 5625 article 2. I couldn't find >> what was it? Um second um >> second from the
>> if you look at it was article five >> it it was May 6th to article to May 6th of 201. >> Yeah. So it's kind of like I just want to get >> Yeah. What was that? 5,000 >> that all is kind of like it's in there,
but like I said, I went when when I went over the the minutes for for that, I didn't see anything. So, it's just a question I I have with it. And then the last sheet which is the last sheet on the 8 and 12 by 11s is is the revenue
>> in this again this this just matches to the the larger sheet that was put together. So this this is a pivot table off the detail um there were two sheets um that I didn't print out because they are the detail if you want to look at
them. Um I believe are folded. Yes. Mhm. >> Um so you you can see line by line um everything that was posted the date it was posted but that's that is a pivot table summary from from that day.
>> Absolutely. >> But that's good to know that they're doing what they do. >> Yeah. So continues on. Um any any questions to go that need to go back to the boarding house? >> Well, not yet.
>> Okay. It'll be probably August or September before we get >> right >> the end of the year to find how the whole year looks. >> And not only that, it's going to take more than two years, >> the beginning, the middle, and the next
to really get a handle on where we are. So because we're wherever it is, it needs to have a very nice uh piggy bank to be working in and out of. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. And again, one of the reasons why they need the piggy bank in order to fly
the labels and do the shipping for next year, >> we're going to be expending that money this year, >> right? >> So that they're available and we can do trash pickup with a new sticker on July. So there'll be
Okay. So, that's that's that piece. Next, um we had been as I there were questions a couple of meetings ago, and I'll I'll forward it out um to everybody, but I just wanted to hit um if we go to the next 8 12 by 11, you'll
see mass nuts. Um, I will get this to you in electronic form so you typing all that in. >> I'm talking about the honest. When are they coming out? >> Um, I have never seen a followup. They
sent out a questionnaire and >> they're not coming out. >> But the week of April 20th, I emailed Theodore to say, "Are you available that week?" And I just literally as we were sitting here because he had nudged me and said, "Hey, when do you guys want me to come out?" I was like, "Oh, yep. Week of April 20th. So we'll see what
>> Thank you for asking. Thank you for asking. >> I think >> um April 20th >> week of so I I think I think Patriots day is that Monday, right? So it won't be Monday. >> So the Tuesday I know there's a select board meeting I believe.
>> So someday that week I think we have ethics training later on I think. Is it >> the 21st coming? So, we'll find a date and I'll relay it to the pincom email address, which I don't know. I think I told Darren Jane about it, but >> that would be great,
>> wasn't it? It wouldn't sound like >> I think the 23rd, but the town clerk's office knows best. >> That's good to know. >> So, that the preliminary and the municipal cherry sheet estimates.
>> Okay. Yep. So um so uh just to hit it the the mass dot um I don't know if you want to look at the links but if I click on the links the the chapter 90 past appointments that is
all the prior years FY26 and before you can see those numbers the chapter 90 for FY27 will take you to this year's estimated >> okay >> because until they're signed off on the budget they won't be actual but you When did they get signed off?
>> Uh, probably >> June. >> They try to get it done by June, but sometimes it takes a little longer. >> Didn't we have that issue last year? >> Oh, >> okay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, the worst. Oh,
>> yeah. Just kind of love this word old age because I had the same problem when I was only 20. But now that I know >> remember >> Yeah. No, I I'm not really I was I was doing some work today. I knocked off all
the top my posts and I replaced them with LED. >> Oh, so it's light. So when I get out of here, I'll I'll be lit up like your Christmas tree. I'll see when I go by your house. >> Solar.
>> Yeah. Well, I'll I'll be going by your house. >> When they wake you up in the middle of the night and you're >> Thank you. >> Yep. do that. >> So, um just so
obviously links don't work here and typing that mess in is kind of like but >> right >> if if you're so I'll for the file and and maybe what I should do is put the >> link >> yeah it's kind of
just Now, does everybody get the information from DLS? I get it all the time. >> I get it. >> Well, that's going to be one of my next questions. If if people aren't getting it, we'll make sure that people have signed up and and get it. I I get emails
all the time. >> I don't even know how I signed up. Oh, I know. I took the classes when I first got on the committee. That must have been why I >> I'm not sure I got those. Did you take the You didn't take the classes. >> I must have taken classes. >> I wish you did.
>> I'm sure I took classes, but I've taken lots of classes online. >> Yep. >> For the town. >> So, the the link for this year takes me to FY27. And it's every town, but if you want to search for Townsen, you can
spell towns and parking, >> okay, >> in the box. And you can see that it just returns the thousand um numbers for this year. The standard formula and then 100
miles only for a total of six six. >> Um do the cherry feats. Um yeah, we follow that link. Um the the opening page that it comes to, you get all 351
pounds >> and cities in nest. >> Oh yeah. >> So you again you can um go ahead and put in select town. I just hit the letter T until town comes up on the list. >> What was the 690?
>> Um 690 was the pavement. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, I told you. >> Y >> yeah. So that's why and that's under Mass D. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> And then the mass
dos. So um this this one allows you to um pick your your gears. So you can right now it's selected to 2027. So you can see only the first two um columns are filled in the 2026
cherry sheet estimate and the 2027 cherry sheet estimate. >> Okay. >> And then under the estimated assessment and charges. This is where you'll start seeing the charges for the different different
sections. They the questions came up because of the recap sheet. there were values in the recap sheet. Then the question was where where they come from. So that's that's why jury jury sheets um and
that's where I'm hitting this one. So the total of all so far on the estimates are there. If I change the year and go back to 2026 um and submit that change, you'll see
all the columns are filled in. So you can start seeing where you get the FY26 estimate, then the House will do a budget, then the Senate does a budget, and then you get your final conference committee numbers. And this is the final
numbers that are issued to town. >> So that's and again, we don't get that until the final budget comes out of conference committee. >> Yeah. that expected >> um same time frame when they when they
sign the budget, you know, late late June. Sometimes they've gone into July and they they they pass uh supplemental budgets. I think it is just to keep going. But um that's the
DLS um for that one. Go back. I'm going to do operating position just because >> what you said >> um this is this is the map and the dashboard um for what we're look like
and again um you select your town box and so you certify free cash year over year. Um the percent of free cash or free cash is percent of the budget. So it it gives you a different look and
these are all the numbers that that they capture with us on on the certification. We provide reports to them. >> Um so I just wanted you to know that it's it's here. um you know if you're you're
looking for um uncollected property tax you can have that overlay as part of percent of the tax levy. Um and you can see the jump last year because that's when we um when we put in the Hero Act
piece though it jumped significantly last year. Um but and then the last two the the self-insured health insurance and self-insured health insurance trust fund. We're not self-insured so we don't
have charts in there. So lots of lots of data were available from from BLS um analytics and then the last one that I put on the list it could be more we can we can keep
building this list um of things that we find useful when you're in here share them um so again select municipalities you have 300 all 300 151 selected. So you can
choose to look at just town. Um this one has a few more selection criterias. Um you can strictly look at a single year or you can check multiple years if you want to see data from the
multiple years. Um and we'll stick with just the one year for now. Um the the receipt types if you wanted to look at just one like motor vehicle X size um you can you can pick
that selected um and then if I go back and check the multiple years you can start seeing the um always hit the submit button um in order to make it happen. you can see the
estimates versus the actuals when recorded. Um, so again, it if you wanted to see all of the data for all of it because there's a lot of revenue that we
actually don't get. >> Say that again. There's a lot of >> But there's a lot of revenue areas that we don't >> Oh. Yeah. >> Where are they? >> Well, and now it's >> But just out of curiosity, what do we
know? We be getting them. >> Well, some of them are are cannabis for instance. >> Hotel um there's other you know you can see all the zeros in in here now. >> Oh, okay. I'm going to look at that. Um
just fees, cannabis impact fee, other fees, department revenue, schools. >> There's a world that we negotiate for impact fees due to the Mason Onyx 10-year gravel pit they're building. I don't
know if anyone's caught up on that, but in Mason, >> Mason, New Hampshire, there's a monster like I'm not using the word. the one that's Yeah, it's Onyx is the aggregate company that >> is proposing the open gravel pit
basically the road and they're going to come through towns and the main thoroughare in towns and at 13 and 119 there. >> Oh, great. More often than not, they're going to go straight through. They may take a left some of the time. A few times they may take a right to go up that way. Mhm. >> And you know, this is a 10-year plan
where there's going to be 50 truckloads a day on the roadway Monday through Monday through Saturday. >> They're coming from Mason >> and they're going up Greenville Road on the bridge. >> They're coming down. Yeah. >> Back and forth. I mean,
over the bridge we just >> Yeah. Over the bridge. >> I was that' be a great test. But there is um >> Well, there's a weight limit right on the bridge. >> There is. Yeah. So, if these trucks are over the weight limit, they
>> Yeah, they'll they'll stop there, but it's they won't all be triacles. They'll be smaller ones along the way. You know, the gentleman from Onyx was very well spoken >> and you sort of pushed back a little bit just because you don't want them opening up behind the high school coming down
Wallace Hill and you know that area. Thought that'd be really dangerous there. M. So they're likely looking at this main thoroughfare here. >> Oh, because the five that five points there. Oh, that's too bad. >> Um, so we're, you know, we there may be a world that we actually get some impact
fees as a result of it. >> Absolutely. >> Because a 10year project, you just think of the Brooklyn Road Bridge there. It, you know, the pedestrian is in shambles. I know we have a grant coming for that, >> but the rest of the the bridge is not in great shape either itself.
>> No vehicle bridge >> and I don't think it's the Emmy truck transport bridge by any stretch. >> I just think it's the repetition truckloads of aggregate. I you know I don't know all the nuances of it but we're we are going to go to bat to try
to get some impact fees to >> question about it that only money we're going to have to spend later anyway. >> Yeah. >> And you know just that this main thorough bear is not really appropriate for trucks. We already have enough trucks going through. >> Now if we had 50 more, >> you know, >> especially if they're turning and
everything, >> they got to change the light. Then they have to put the light so that people can make a left or a right. You know the arrow. >> Yeah. Because excuse me, the traffic is backed up. Be like house. >> I know.
In New Hampshire. >> I go through the lights and turn it down Brooklyn as well. >> That's what I do. That's what I do. >> It's tough with you got the barber shop and you got cliffs and you got, you know, there could be a a concert on the common and people want to be able to hang out and you got trucks pulling by. So, I think it's something we have to
think about as a town and have people >> speak up. It's a good opportunity to >> Well, I can't wait. I've been talking to Bug for like five years now. >> We can't say no though, right? >> I mean, >> you can't say no. But you can really We could really advocate. We've already
started to advocate to say this is We weren't even included as an auter. But where are they coming from? >> Coming down 13. All the way past the police station, pastine, >> but they're starting in Mason. Brookline's losing their minds over I
mean, but they are beside themselves with frustration in terms of what it's going to be. >> Okay. But still way to get to Mason. The main way is 123 after all for 124. And that nice. >> Are we done? >> Country road. >> Oh boy. Is it a country road? If I was
still 22, I would love that road with my little bug. >> So that's impacties. We may maybe we benefit somehow. So >> let's hope big time. >> Even if we >> even if we have to let them do it yet, they have to pay for it.
>> Yeah. Maybe maybe actually do a proper traffic flow right in the center there where you move the road around a little bit. So it's you get better parking. There's a plan like a long >> They already they already have all that. That's all been done. >> Yeah, we didn't get the DTA. So, yeah, >> we didn't get the grant.
>> No, but we got the studies >> study studies six years old now. So, >> I thought they just did a study on the pling board. I mean, I just saw our study for doing the section of 13. >> I wrote the grant that there was an old
It's an older study. >> It's an older study. >> I don't remember how old it is, but it's it's old. I think it's four or five years old. Maybe six. >> Okay. >> Better be home if I when that meeting. >> So,
>> yeah. >> Okay. So, >> where are we? >> Um I I just went through the local receipt estimates versus the um actual. So, >> um so that that's uh >> 2.3
>> 2.3 1.2. >> Oh my goodness. My indis like it should have been indented and it shouldn't have been three numbers. >> That was when you brought up the BLS. >> Yeah, right. Um,
>> okay. So, that was all part of Yeah, that was that was part of it. Um, I also wanted to >> bring up one of the one of the items that we had forward on the on the agenda for is talking about the income sources in the
town. >> Okay, that'll be okay. Let's go. >> All right. >> The real ones or the ones that could be. Well, that I I guess the ones that could be because um I I just wanted to show what we what we had and what was
available because the >> what was asked to be presented on on the agenda is what are the potential other areas of of that we could have or maybe that we want. I went to the recreation meeting the other day, even though they
hate me there, >> and they talked about something very interesting that Kobe Studio from conservation is trying to put together a cleanup of the river. >> Wow.
>> To bring back the kayak canoe race. >> Wow. Wow. >> Which I think is huge for town. >> Yeah, that would be really I don't know the details of it. Karen, do you know anything about it? >> No, not much. I think you've got more info than I do. So,
>> okay. I'm going to go talk to Kobe and get the scoop because they're talking about not only making the river clear for >> Mhm. >> boating, but they're talking about including all the trails, making them
available for walking, biking, hiking, snowmobiles, the ones that are designated for, in other words, our natural resources. finally talking about getting them as potential economic
>> in started cleaning up the river a few years ago and then it kind of fell by the wayside. I think they did it two years or something. I know they did at least one >> but but I think that would be huge. It's really It's kind of like you you mentioned that and it's kind of like I I
remember people I was working with down in conquered were very excited they brought their kayaks out here twice every year and that was probably before I moved out here 40 years ago. >> People love it. >> It was it was a big >> which river? >> I don't know which one you were talking
about. >> Um >> well how do you fill up the pond? Well, one of the >> Okay, thank you. I have never been any further than the middle house or whatever. >> Okay, so >> I've never been other to stand there and look out and watch a
>> bird. >> So, from the BFW to the >> pond, right pond. That was the race. >> Okay. >> Yep. And I know a few years back they had to get out and walk around a couple
of places because it was so bad. >> Yeah. so bad now they can't do it >> right. >> So anyway, I think that's exciting and I think we should keep our eye on it and I think we should get our friends and family to help them clean it up if we can. >> Well, and I don't know if the Lions Club
was still going to be willing to do it anymore, but if not, maybe >> the recreation department say recreation could put that together >> a thousand%. It should it's a no-brainer. Um,
so that would that would be good. >> So, but for other income sources, should we request the departments to go through their fees? Um, >> the planning board updated their fees this past year.
>> Okay. I know building department usually keeps theirs pretty good. Um year they >> um counter not so much. >> No nothing about Harrison. I'm talking about me. >> No, I I think he he and I chatted about
it. He was thinking maybe dog licenses could go up. >> I I agree. >> You may know you probably know best. >> I agree. They could go up and even vital records, we brought it up from $6 to $10 a few years ago, but that could even go to 15. Yeah, I was going to say I looked
around at other >> a lot of Yeah. I mean, you go to Boston, it's $50 to get birth. >> Why would you go to Boston? >> A little boy there may there are you sympathy. >> Um, so there's that. And there's also
another thing I wanted to bring up is the rental of or the leasing of properties. Um, why are we leasing them out for so little money? >> Like the dollar? >> Yeah. I I don't understand that. Even if
we were to get >> what the value in taxes would be on that property, >> even if it, you know, 3,000 a year or 5,000 a year, whatever, I think would >> be pretty reasonable. >> Well, I mean, we have the assets, but
we're not letting it work for us. And and that's like very not smart. That's talk about fiscally irresponsible. >> Yeah. I think that that would future at this point. I mean the lease is assigned but future lease a recommendation we
make is that future leasing um >> well >> and Karen really put some light on it. Sorry to drag you in Karen. That's why I'm here. So he said that now I understand I saw the dynamics of the last town meeting
and and um I was really disappointed because I don't understand why the town can't either get money for it as a rental without feeling bad for the soccer players and the baseball players and and
the officers of that corporation. But I think that it's a two there's two ways I could do it. They could either have the leases or recreation could somehow join. >> Mhm. >> Now, at the meeting of recreation of the day, the director talked about
some kind of um I don't even know what the word is. She used a word for the longevity of the recreation. I have no idea what that means. It's like, you know, corporate salad talk. So I I don't know if she's like made a deal with him. Do you know
anything about that >> with the soccer fields? >> Yeah. >> Because the lease hasn't been ridden yet. So I don't think I don't want to put the car before the horse. >> Yeah. >> But I I just think that it's unfortunate because they are making money, >> right? >> And I just want to be very clear to all
the people listening that just because you're a nonprofit does not mean you don't make money. >> No, you absolutely make money. But what I what I took from that is I heard they were willing to pay the schools for the rental. That's what I was just going to say, >> right?
>> But they don't want to pay us, >> right? It's kind of like it's kind of like that is sort of a light bulb to me was, oh, >> they're willing to pay, but we want to charge a dollar. >> No, it's crazy. It's crazy. It No, it's physically irresponsible. That's what it
is. It's not crazy. What do you think the chances are of them charging more than a dollar for a 50-year lease? Which is >> that first vers first? >> Yeah. >> I don't think a 50-year lease is a thing. I think it's 30th cap. >> Yeah.
>> I think I think that the town council's got to go back and look that up. >> I would check your charter. Your charter does not have a says it can go up to 50 years. I believe 95%. >> So, the charter would trump the state. charter would Yeah.
>> Right. >> Okay. >> But I need I agree with you getting some type of something more than a dollar >> exactly like I say just just for the t the amount of the taxes or whatever. What are they paying for the schools?
>> I bet they don't know what they paid. >> Probably not. >> They don't know history. >> Yeah. So, >> and I know that they're >> they're improve they're putting the fields in and all of this, but that's for their purpose. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Not for our purpose, especially like
baseball. >> Well, they >> they're locked. And I'm sorry, there's no pickup games on the baseball field. >> No, John Barl was right. And and I do think that that's really really really wrong. I mean, this is not we're not >> we don't have gangs shooting kids at the
basketball thing. This is a tiny town. I think the kids should be able to do pickup games. The five kids that are out there riding their bike. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> You see it in Pepro. There's always kids playing by the >> It's actually kind of cool right near the rotary there. You see people playing
on a Thursday night. Like this is refreshing. I thought kids play video games. >> I know. They can't get into it. But >> they have they're out there playing ball or something on the field. They need a psychiatrist because that's doesn't have value. Well, they said that there's a
process to open the fields for that type of thing. Well, April vacation, it's a nice day. The kids want to go play. They don't want to plan it ahead of time when it rains. >> Well, kids are okay. Looks like Friday over there playing football, basketball,
baseball, you name it. Soccer. Just >> going out there with the chasing the soccer ball by themselves. >> Just got triacles. the trucks going by. >> Yeah. >> But the funny thing is they have those fences and it looks ominous. Looks like a prison.
>> It does not look like small town. Welcome. Let's play. I understand they're worried about a dog pooping on the lawn, but that's part of the whole But what about the geese, >> right? >> Oh, yeah. They're horrible. >> That works as far as revenue. I think
that we're miss I think that the town is missing the passes that they have. >> Very tasty. >> Y >> the geese are >> Canadian geese are very tasty especially >> well I don't get that close with the fat
car. >> Do you think that this new economic ar they put didn't they vote to make an economic committee or something? >> Yes. >> Yes. Mhm. >> Right. >> Do we know who's on it? Has anybody asked to be on it? >> Um I think Lorie's on it. Uh Bob Gar
side. They were um they had a couple other planning board members. Um I think there was someone from housing authority they were trying to get as well as housing trust. >> Um I think some like stakeholders of that. >> Did they ask?
>> It's the inside group. It's the inside group. So nobody from outside might have a different idea, right? >> Yeah. I'm not sure on the membership. I know I was not invited. So >> couple days. >> So yeah. Okay. Oh, was invitation.
>> I think it was >> better yet. >> I think it's an ad hoc committee. So yeah. >> Oh, is this the think tank? Yeah. What's considered the think tank? >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. Um that >> can can we vote on um can we make a
motion to ask the selectman to really think about the leases and charging fees? Is that something that we can advise them? >> I'm thinking I mean it >> we're advisor well recommending board advisor. Yeah,
>> right. We're recommending board and I think that's >> where are we now? >> They can take it or leave it by put it out there. That's where >> that's the only place on the >> No, no, we have the taser field, >> right? >> We have the heart library. We have the
library. >> It's right next. >> We have the reading room up in West Townson. >> Fire station. >> We have the Harvard Fire Station. We have the D Center Fire Station. >> That's right. Um Yep. I mean, it needs to be puffed up, but um
>> wasn't that part of the generous gift, >> right? >> Um so there are assets that creative out of the box thinking is what this town needs. They got to stop doing what three people want them to do and they've got to start thinking out of the box.
>> Well, the problem with the library, I heard has to do with the decontamination. >> Yeah, but everybody's heard heard heard. We haven't seen the real evidence yet. >> Do you know what I mean? I went in there and and yes, the there's a lot of books, there's a lot of paper, there's a lot of humidity. >> I don't think it's a million dollar
loss. I mean, unless you want to pay some outfit out of Boston's going to come over. I mean, >> well, what are the rigs coming down from Beacon Hill? >> I don't think it's a super fun cleanup spot by any stretch. I think it's got
mold. Of course it does. But >> get all those books out and doubt with bleach. >> But there may be more to it than >> Well, yes. But I'm sure there is, but but I understand it's kind of like you
utilize the resources we have. um try try to improve and try to get to to a point where you can utilize them and make them revenue >> because even if you lease it at a very low rate for somebody to come in clean it up. >> Mhm. >> And then give them
>> that break for 10 years or whatever, but then you start >> I don't you mean a tax break on it or a lease break? >> Lease. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> you know what I mean? because they're going and it is our property, but then after a certain amount of time, you need to start charging.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, you'd have to work that out cuz and not necessarily what you have to say. We're giving them a break, >> right? Um that's what the economic people should be trying to bring most people in. Um
>> parks, I mean, do we have any um RV parks? Do we have land that we could convert or use as RV parks? Remember when we did open space? >> Mhm. >> Nobody brought that up. >> Yeah. >> Didn't really think about that,
>> right? Yeah. Because with um >> well, what's her name? The governor of the state of Massachusetts said that she would let property go for development. M >> I don't know if she just meant residential or
>> I think it's it's building houses but I mean it's so many but uh so many pieces but I mean one of the things one of the pieces was you know with music was supposed to be my try to develop and bring more in into town and I don't
think >> well I don't think anybody did anything about it the town historical society talked about it when the generous gift came on board >> but that was like a day late in the short. They should have been talking about that before the Graten Hills thing was put up. They knew about it. It was the biggest thing in
>> in biggest development in the area. >> Yeah. And they didn't get on they didn't jump on board. >> I wasn't here when it started. I I came back. >> The um uh plan was gone that time.
>> Oh, sorry. One one idea might be because you guys have a really unique 55 plus housing bylaw is perhaps you make a recommendation to your planning board or your zoning board of appeals or to your se select board to wave permit fees for
55 plus housing >> because you have one that just went up for sale on Depot Street one being built on um 13. They're building them up in 13. >> And your your bylaw is very advantageous to a builder compared to surrounding
communities. >> So they they got the three and they're building I think eight more units on >> further up. >> So you basically put up to >> 13 house.
>> Yeah. She said he just put eight unit. It's like an old house >> and then they go down the barn >> and then they I think they're putting >> they already Yeah, they're they're up and then the house is going to be converted to two, I
believe. >> Oh, really? >> Well, the other thing is in the middle of our town, >> we have probably the ugliest thing happening. That yellow mall, it's disgusting. It's embarrassing. It is absolutely horrific. that should be
taken down retail on the bottom and two levels of >> building. Yeah. I mean that that >> is and and landscape it. Hello. I mean it's >> can be done >> it could be done very attractively
because they did that they did that in Bedford Center where it's all the bottom is retail shops and restaurants. >> Yeah. And then they did it they did it they residential and it looks and it's beautiful. It's really >> well your zoning overlay actually
captured it pretty well where it was retail on the first floors >> leasing a residential on the second. >> Yeah. >> You've already done it. So like >> those are your like recommendations that I would be thinking to capture like the 55 plus one is good. I'm a realtor as my
other part-time job and I know enough builders have said towns and figured it out. >> Took their wicked expense. >> Yeah, but they have a million dollars. >> That's what it is. That's the going rate. I know that it's
tiny. It's a onecar garage and you pay a half a million bucks. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. On road you can't even out. But like that's housing. >> Yeah. And the cost to live. So this all circles back to paying wages and it's to
live in Massachusetts you have to make a lot of money or come from money. It's one or the other right now. >> Well, that's why you have so many people with six they're losing so many people, >> right? So but like it's so enable more more housing to be generated is a
recommendation US of income could make and no one has to take it. It's just a recommendation. I I do think housing would be helpful, but I but but I think we also need economic commercial and retail. I really do. >> Right. Well,
>> but you're flat taxes. It's it's it's a one year like you'll see Starbucks give you one year of growth and it's just going to flatten out. >> Yeah. >> And that opened on Friday reportedly. >> I I I saw somebody try to go in on
Thursday and it wasn't open. Yeah, >> it's supposed to be Friday, isn't it? I don't know with it for a long time. We had a two-tier attack system because we had residential and commercial because we have >> Well, that's another thing. >> It was Yeah, there's a lot of
commercial. >> Yeah, we had a lot of commercial and years ago it it was before town meeting, you know, about where to develop the commercial. >> It just shifts the burden. It just Well, you know, 110 is where >> Oh, yeah. That's So,
>> because if you go off of 110, you got very >> You don't have 495 in your backyard. >> That's the difference. >> No. Um, right. >> Right. Because it's it's like 30 minutes to the highway. >> Yeah. >> Towns. >> You have towns. >> Okay. All right, everybody. I just want
to say one thing about that. Two things. >> Picky place. >> Oh, yeah. I haven't been there. I got to go. Well, first of all, you're going to be able to find it number one deep in the woods in New Hampshire. And when you get there, you're going to find a
parking lot that rivals the high school that is packed with every license plate in every state in the union. >> You park and you have to dodge a tree to get between those >> and you can't make a reservation
>> for 6 months. They're booked. >> Yeah. >> So, that's number one. And number two about this whole highway business, >> heavens, >> you've got an amazing high-end store, retail store in the middle of nowhere.
If you come from outside of >> know people who come from >> Yes, they do. Yes, they do. And we're not capturing that market that he's bringing to our town and leaving on the doorstep and we're just >> maybe they go to Starbucks.
They'll get their dollar coffee in a new pair of >> They'll get all the high school kids. They can walk right across. >> I'll go to McDonald's and get my dollar coffee. Drop the kids off at Starbucks. >> I think we've got stuff dropped in our lap that we're just not seeing.
>> Right. And and when the master plan was put together, they um the one piece that was done by an outside firm was economic development. So they they listed where the gaps in retail were and so you know some of that
>> have that harbor pond doled up and have kiosk there for kayak. I mean >> yeah it's kind of like main town >> this is coming from a low IQ person. No, no, no. It's kind of like how do you how do you get people? It's kind of like
>> Well, the one on Walton Pond does great summer. They make a >> brutal, but Walton's a little bigger than it. >> Do we have a couple? >> Yeah. By the Harvard church. >> Yeah. >> Oh, the Harvard church. Okay. >> And you can put It's got a What do you
call a launch? A launch. A launch right there. >> Yep. No more. You can do like a popup. >> You can do a popup. Absolutely. canoe rental. >> Yeah. >> Have them have 25 kayaks. >> Those two things the kids love.
>> What keeps you from going over what used to be there? Stop it back in the day. >> I don't think you can go over the falls, can you? >> You you could have back in the day. >> Yeah, but >> you you're going to have to make sure. You're going to have to put up awesome.
>> So, they had they had at what they had was called the Sweetheart bar. You know where all the junk is right now. >> Yeah. It was an ice cream place and they had paddle boat rentals right there that went all around the pond. You remember that? >> No, I don't. I really don't remember that. >> Yeah. When you're way paddle paddle one
thing, paddle boards is what people doing. >> No, no, this is one person standing up on the board with a big tall paddle board. >> Oh, no. Not that kind of cattle boy. I know this the thing that you know.
>> Yeah. You know, so >> um >> No, there's economic >> opportunity. We just don't have >> rail trail rent bikes. >> Rail trail should be renting bikes. >> Look at in in >> cannabis is a big one. >> Cannabis is Well, >> well, yeah. You know what happened with
that? Did you ever hear that story? They were going to have medical marijuana place over by the uh country club on the back road. People were up in arms because they felt the traffic was going to be out on the road because they were going to have a drive up window. Okay.
No understanding. And the police chief we had at the time who did not last long said not in my town. And the guy came in to talk about it and it's like this is the safest thing you could possibly have. >> And you've already made a million bucks. >> So I mean
>> yeah before they get >> I would Daniel Webster and like Tinsboro there. >> Oh yeah. each other. >> Yeah. But they're owned by the same person. >> Are they really? >> Yeah. >> Really? >> And it's there's like there's so much I'm like it's all the New Hampshire plates going to buy their >> Exactly.
>> or whatever. I'm like, "Hey, whatever you want to do, don't >> live your best life." Like, but the tax, >> but they wanted to put it someplace out in the middle of nowhere so that nobody It's like, "No, you put it right in the malls, right in the center of town." >> Brian has right in the center of town.
>> Yeah. Brian has a gun, right? They got right by the old people like that yellow. >> Yeah. >> You know, do they even know they have >> dispensing, >> they decided just stick it in some sewer somewhere. >> Yeah. Exactly. and where you can't get
to and the limit on that was the town that decided that. >> Yeah, >> we do we do have a citizens petition for cannabis stuff. So that will be a real >> yes. >> There's a warning article based the citizens petition versus cannabis. >> Really? >> Oh, good. >> Okay.
>> Is it um >> what >> again? I don't know off the top of my head. I just like 40 >> articles. They said put it down in next to its >> mean put it next to a laundry mat where someone can >> do their laundry
have a cup of coffee >> wait an hour then go home. Okay, that's that's the dream. >> I mean, think, >> well, they better hurry up and do it because um >> the only talking about repealing the candy
>> and they're also talking about having cafes rushing in >> to buying at the door to get there >> because of the voters. Um,
>> they sent their people out to Colorado. >> Yeah, >> I just went through the map. I don't see anything >> any real commercial building around here. >> I mean, you go up to heaven.
>> It's totally surrounded by one church, one >> town center, >> and the rest is all out. >> It's just like it didn't work. So, >> going to buy up their houses and break some of, you know, anything budget policy
up they already kind of burn of it now to review it but nonetheless to >> you try to put it somewhere down these other places >> askman to review things
>> what's the name of that >> well can you just write a letter >> we Yeah, I noticed you know >> emailed them discussed it. >> We can take a vote on it, but I think it it's more than >> you got two spots. He's got one down,
you know, 19 on the left because I don't think any really do you think it should be part of the policy. >> I um >> or no, >> we can make the recommendations that we're we we're just talking about, but
I'm thinking that the budget policy is, you know, take take a look at it and and is it working? Is it not working? Modify it if it you know, make recommendations for >> modify policy. You mean the way they do it? >> No, the the policy about the numbers. >> You're talking about the actual budget
policy. It's kind of like to and there's a couple of couple of things. One of as as I read it when when a budget comes in there supposed to be background information. We're not seeing >> Well, please. We already did that last year. It didn't happen. >> Well, it it's not background information
from the department. It's from select board to say this is our budget and this is the word to support budget because I think that's an important but if they're not generating I think we should be generating it. So that we say
this is this is what the change is in the budget. When we look at um even even peace I mean I'm still would like to get more on the reserve fund. It's kind of like I don't know a lot of people
>> understand what the reserve fund is for and how to publish how we used it. I wouldn't publish it any approvals have have man >> I mean I guess to have a reserve fund of $50,000 with a history of not having
used more than say what was it 35 >> it's it's an average of about 20 29 um six but we had a high year of 46 that that so it's kind of like So when
when you're talking about the reserve fund and you're talking about say 35,000 you're talking about a.3% of your own operating budget not the total budget which includes the school that's a that's a tiny number.
>> I think it's very tiny number and I also think that it's tiny because all the pieces are not working together. Example our um building repairs. You know why? Why? Why don't we
have something that we spend minimum >> $10,000 a year to paint one window every year doing? We we're not >> on the right track in terms of taking care of our assets. Yet again, I'm talking about that. >> Um our hands are tied with all this
union stuff and all the contracts and two and a half bit. There's nothing we can really >> do there without becoming real rebels. But I think that when you talk about reserve for an emergency, it's going to have something to do, I believe, with a
building, with a storm taking a roof off, with a stairway coming down, with some kind of >> un unanticipated expenses at the time of the budget. >> But those kinds of things could be mitigated and less risky if the
maintenance was ongoing and maintenance. Right. Right. I'm not saying I'm talking to go away because some but then 50 would be >> reasonable as opposed to what >> you're supposed to have like I don't know
>> it it it depends. I mean looking looking at the the uh finance committee they they say 5% 5% is a number >> 5% of the budget >> of the budget and kind of um I don't think we can get there in right I don't you know there's no way
>> I know we have fire and ice we have highways everybody >> right everybody going to do that but in in the bigger bigger part and as as a guest do it should the budget policy in include things like um the pieces what
what a free cash policy is, what a what what the policy what what the policy should be for submitting the budget, you know, create creating getting it to a point. I think we we have to learn how to how to get our budget to a point because of the things
we're not doing. It's kind of like we have to know um all all the pieces and and what's not not going to get done if we don't build it into in to the budget policy. >> That way >> I mean it's like of course we should do that.
>> I'm going to I'm going to say the bad word, but um in order to increase our base, we're going to have to have an override at some point. >> I I agree with you. >> We we are so we we have scrimmed and cut so so much. Um, some departments have
grown. Most departments are still where they were years ago. So, you know, are we still able to to supply the same services for the same amount of money because we we're getting the the larger amounts are are going to to schools and
and things and and we have to be prepared for that. it. Budget sustainability is is a word I'm going to throw off because several years ago there was a budget sustainability team put together to look at and and with Prop 2 and a half
expenses are going up higher than the than the 2 and a half% every year. So we're losing ground every year in the budget. So it's kind of like there's got to be a stop gap we have to work at at where we are. How do we get to a point where we can invest in building only?
It's kind of like I remember one time somebody talked to me and said, "We do a good job maintaining our buildings." I said, "No, we don't. We we we every time we need something major, we we have an anonymous donor that comes in and builds us a new whatever we need, highway,
highway department, library, you name it." It was there was always >> and it's kind of like so the town wasn't taking care of itself. It's kind of like and so we have to find a way of getting a getting to a point where we
can stress that we need we need these things and and we need to to boost to get to a point of um >> there's no question >> sustainability for a few years. you know, don't because every year it's it's an override coming. I mean, we
still have the one for the police coming this year. We don't know what that's going to do. If that fails, there's $200,000 that we're going to have to >> But Don, I can honestly say, having looked at things >> for the past 5 years,
>> the reason is because the reckless financial spending of the people in charge. And I'll say that again and again. We don't have people >> making the decisions >> who are paying attention who are looking at all the factors and making good sound
decisions. Now, let me give you an example of one of them right now is that recreation thing. >> So, yes, she was able to get a grant for it. >> Yes, it's recreation. Yes, it's good. But now we're stuck with this money with she wants 25 grand for the capital. We
got 35 from Mark and she still hasn't done any fundraising and there's no and she needs extra five for the glue. >> Whoever allowed that for example who is allowing these leases for a dollar when they're assets that could be. So I don't think that the town should be giving
this town an override until we can be sure that the people in charge who are spending the money are doing it not recklessly. >> Not for their friends, for their family and reckless. And this town's in first thing. Holy mother of God, gotta go. >> Gotta go. And
that's my piece. >> Okay. No, understood. And and again, we're trying to keep it around budget policy. And >> but that budget policy, >> it is. And and those things aren't necessarily written into the budget policy and there's no checks and balances with it. So, you know, and and
I was going to go with free cash and and the stabilization funds. you know, it's kind of like we're only growing the stabilization funds by the the interest that we're getting on on those funds. And I understand they're limited, but
should we be looking at things on an annual basis and saying before your free cash is, and then again, free cash and paying off snow and ice is one thing. We're not going to be able, in my opinion, it's kind of like we're not
going to be able to sustain paying the snow and ice budget if it continues to grow and be 300,000 a year. That's 300,000. I don't want to put it all in the budget because of the limitations that it puts on you if if you don't spend that much. But we need to get we
need to get higher and closer to it. Um so that we're only needing a h 100,000. If we come to a point that we don't have free cash and the snow ice budget is 300,000, we have a $300,000 gap that we got to fill. It's kind of like we have to
be >> you're going to have you're going to have the unions are going to increase. We got people at two and a half. We got people at 4% automatic. How do you if two and a half is the override limit or not limit but that >> that's the cap. Yeah. >> And and you got contracts that were
negotiated by the board of selectment at 4%. Holy mother of God, you're never going to get even and sustain it. It's not unless you increase your taxes 4% every year, >> right? And and >> so it goes back to the people who are doing >> the decisions. But going back to your
point about grants, when we go for a grant, we need to know is that grant going to cover everything or or if we apply for a grant, do we have to come up with additional funds?
>> And is it then is it worth >> going pursuing a grant? And we don't we don't make those decisions when we go look for a grid to look at the whole picture and say, "Okay, we like this grid, but what's it going to cost us?" >> That's an excellent point.
>> In addition, um because >> um because just like the recreation, yeah, they got all that equipment, but it came with substantial amount of money that >> so did the bike lanes. Now we've got these yellow and green stripes all over town and they're starting to erode
because of the because we're in New England because the roads are horrible and because of that now do we have it in the highway department to paint yellow and green? I mean we can't even get yellow lines in >> on straight. >> So that's a very good
>> right now. I mean, >> no, no, no. >> If this is sort of the way you started your night, >> if you have a good talent administrator, they work with your group, the select board, and all the other groups to link all these things together. Part of the
issue in this very cracky, unique town is that struggle. >> You've had no continuity in leadership. >> It's been a revolving door. Like you've had a select board, great, but like there's nobody who bridges and builds
relationships with your unions. Like I get to start that on Thursday. Like I have a plan for that. And like I'm going to and I'll say it on TV right now. Like it's 2 and a half%. >> What more could you possibly ask for? >> That's an excellent question. >> And I'm just going to say it over and
over again. They I've already told them. I go, "It's 2 and a half%." And they're going to look at me and be like, "Well, we want four." I'm going to say, "How can you ask for more? Tell me who you don't want in the room at the next department head meeting. >> Do you tell you guys tell I literally I hope they're listening to me like who do you not want here at the next one.
>> Yeah, it's a good point and and I think that that you're right. It hasn't been done. The continuity hasn't been there. >> Without good leadership, you don't succeed there. >> So you're going to the thing and that is I bingo. Yes, you're right. without good leadership. And we have had leadership
that has been family and friends for a very long time here. And that has got to change. It's got to be for the benefit of the town, not for the family and sense. >> You're right. You have 9,000 or so residents. >> Yeah. How many are represented? Like maybe 0. >> How many showed up at the
>> No, no, no. I mean decision making. Not not when they >> I understand that. But even at the town meeting, >> there's nothing at this last town meeting that couldn't have been right here up here. >> That's right. And then the people that want the agenda and they got up and left. Yeah,
>> I got up and left cuz I've been up to pull it back with more that we were talking. Um, I also thought with it, why don't you have a grant acceptance
proposal that is signed off, reviewed by finance that says this is how it's going to be paid for this year and this is how it's being paid for >> and then we get to look and ask the questions. >> Yeah, it's very good. >> It's it's time. >> But
>> so I applied for 30 grants this year. You guys want to go through 30 grants worth of paperwork with me? only only when they're accepted. When you're going to accept it and it hits the budget or if you think we need to do it before then then >> but then if it's already accepted though you're already on the hook
>> fun. So you guys want to be the stop gap on what's applied for? >> Well somewhere along the line >> I wasn't I was thinking more and >> careful what you wish for. You think the hiring freezes is exhausting. This is right. >> This is like I applied for three and did
three presentations last week for close to a million dollars worth of grants for culvert replacements. >> For what kind of replacements? >> Cold replacements island and Bixby and Naturebased solution on the back side of town common for around a million dollars. Like
it's dry. >> Oh, luxury. >> Like it's a monotonous process and there's zero there's no match required. >> So yeah. So if there's no match it's no brain. The only thing I'm concerned about is a grant that requires >> matches
the budget. >> But what about the maint? >> Yes, the maintenance should be included. >> Yes. It's kind of like the >> those those other pieces with the maintenance. Do you do it as >> a reserve fund just for maintenance? Do
you do it as a state as a >> you're talking about our reserve fund? >> No. No. stay separate. You you can have um you can have multiple reserve funds and you can have multiple stabilizers. >> So, in other words, we need to have a meeting a workshop meeting on budget policy alone.
>> That seems to be heavy. So, >> it it can be, but you know, and this may not be the right time to do it. >> Well, no, not probably right now. not not in the normal budget season, but it's kind of like >> well, we could have a whole meeting on just going through the the budget
policy, the the whatever part of the charter has the budget in the bylaw or whatever and just review it all. >> Yeah. >> Do a work session. >> I like that idea. >> I review all of the budget stuff.
>> I think that's a very good idea. So, where are we at with the real budget? I'll send I'll send you an updated version tomorrow because I >> You have another one. >> Well, I changed the TA number from 180 to 170
as was recommended. >> Oh boy, I can hear this one. So, so then the 10,000 can move to the reserve financ,000 back. >> That's not the TA prop version, but >> No, no, no. I said spend down. You
haven't I sent you the averages since 2020. >> You haven't gone over $40,000 ever. >> You the most you ever spent was $32,000. I literally just sent it to you. >> They know they they haven't they haven't applied them, but we voted them. I'm
looking at it right now, but that's that's up to you guys for how you manage your bookkeeping with the accountant. >> Is that is that expended or is that asked for? >> Yeah. In 2021, you went over you were $35$380. That's the most expensive year you've had. >> That that was that was applied, but it
the the accountant was not applying it. We had approved 46. >> It's kind of like But the accountant didn't apply it. Um, it's kind of like so I think that >> so that's a that's a budget policy that's this is be kind of a harsh but
that's on you to make sure you accounted the right way. Right. That's not the that's not the fund's fault. >> No, it it's not the fund's fault. It's kind of like but that's what what was approved and we would only approve up to $4,000 more. We would not have gone over the 50,000. It's it's
>> But you only had 40 that year. >> Yeah. I I literally sent you the entire >> Okay, I'll I'll go back and look at it, but it's an we could put the 10,000 somewhere else. >> We can put there's plenty of places to spot the roof. >> Yeah, I haven't seen war. I'm not
looking. I'm looking at that reserve fund of ours as a emergency fund that has >> not been accounted for in other places. The roof is not an emergency even unless
it falls in on somebody. >> I agree with me. >> I enjoyed my league. It was great. >> Kind of smells like nice mold up there. It's great. >> They painted the walls for me. It just kind of smells like paint and mold blended together.
>> Living creatures. >> Get my towel washer. But it's something that can be planned for. >> I agree. >> The boiler blows up cannot be planned for. Especially if the boiler is 3 years old. >> Oh, you mean because you'll see the roof
leaking and eventually, >> you know, there's a problem. Okay. But if you have a roof that's good for 20 years and you have to plan on in 20 years, you're going to have to sort of 20-year roof will last 30 to 40 years. But besides that, you still have to plan.
>> And that's the thing, planning. planning for it. I mean, >> so there's a difference between an emergency happening >> and something that needs to be planned for. Okay. >> This is why they would do a side a year. >> Mhm. >> A phased approach. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. A phase approach, >> right? Exactly. That's that's the sort of thing we we have to >> When I paint my house, well, the inside of my house now, but I don't paint the whole thing at once. I paint it a room at a time, you know? >> Inside is a wall at a time. But yeah.
>> Yeah. And it all burned a house last year for some silly reason. Oh, the new bloody door. >> Great. >> Okay. The door had to be replaced. >> Well, I won't forget it.
>> Yeah. No, no, no. It It's kind of like the budget policy, the the uh uh use of the reserve fund were on here. We sort of incorporated them in there. So there's there's more to be done, but um
so as far as that goes, are we looking >> we could be done? We uh are we going to meet next? >> No, >> we're not meeting Thursday. >> We're not meeting Thursday. That that I sent out to everybody, >> right? This >> Well, I didn't get that far. I haven't
been able to look at it since the >> Saturday. I think Saturday morning was the last chance I had to look at. >> Thank you. That's a good thing to do. >> 42. So the question is, do we do next Tuesday? >> 47.
>> That is 47. >> April 7th. >> Okay. Would you be able to pick a night that's not a Tuesday in the future so I can sit down and do like a budget presentation again with you guys? >> Um, we were planning on Tuesdays and Thursdays from now till >> Okay.
>> Um, so Thursday. Um, Tuesday, >> Thursday the 9th, I am not here. >> Okay. >> So, maybe the following Thursday. >> Well, that's on you, though. >> That is that is on throw out. >> Who gave you the time? No. Nobody. But
nobody's giving me the time off yet. >> So, it's Thursday, April what? >> Um, >> not 12th. >> That'd be 16. >> That would be Saturday with my mother-in-law's birthday and I had to >> double all day. We we can we can but if
we don't have the budget yet maybe it makes sense. >> I'll send you an updated version of the budget tomorrow morning with recap. >> Okay. And then we can look at it if we have >> if we have questions we'll put them on Tuesday and Thursday if everybody's good with that. It's kind of like Yep.
>> And then the following Thursday we're going to meet with hearing for the >> budget. Right. We we also have Tuesday booked. I I I have to double check and see what we have for dates in Zoom and see if we clear out. There were a couple of dates that were conflict. So I'll have to go back and double check
>> on our Tuesdays and Thursdays. Someone else took them >> Republican committee. There was there was somebody else there. It's kind of like But I mean we always have >> somewhere else. >> We we can go to um um >> the great hall. >> The great hall. Yeah. Well, the wire
department they >> Yeah, they'd have to be there. >> Okay, I think >> she could let us in. >> Yeah, Jerry Jury's the commissioner until the election anyway. She could probably let us in. >> We'll see. I'll I'll send her an email.
Where's the water? >> Uh harbor. You go to the harbor, take a right on Telro Road and then you pass Deluxe and the first left >> after you turn when you go from here to the Harbor, >> right? Take a right.
>> Take a right across the the whatever that thing is. >> Emry, go down south road. >> These are names. They aren't a >> Okay, my father had the same problem. You go down to the first oak, turn left.
>> Do you know where Sver Road is? No, just here. >> Put it into your phone. >> Yes. >> Pick the horse. I've trained him right. >> We'll we'll lay down some. What's the name of the road? >> Trace. >> Trace.
>> R. >> Okay. We can do that after it's so we'll continue. We have ours on >> the nace. >> So basically plan on Tuesdays and Thursday. >> I think plan on Tuesdays and Thursdays and then we'll yeah if we have something that we don't have
>> down the trace road >> for the budget if if we're able to like >> ratify it on the 16th or the subsequent >> Thursday after that. I was hoping to throw myself completely under the bus and like have an open mic night up here
one of the nights and tell people I'll feed you cookies and water. Come here and poke me and >> throw gasoline in as much as you want for any question. >> I prefer diesel with burning. >> Yeah, I'm going to put it on the website.
>> That might be interesting >> cuz it's how I do it in my town and I rather people air out their grievances before they get to town meeting. Right. >> So, and how are you going to get the people to come like through >> bribery >> or pizza? >> Yeah. >> So, that I I haven't really crossed that
bridge yet, but I'm going to find a way to and I would encourage groups and boards to say absolutely let's send a member. Let's pick on Kieran because >> I'd rather you do it here than at town meeting floor and spend >> hours >> hours. It's just it's just not that it's silly, but like why not ask the question
in advance if you get the info and if you like it and then reask if you really feel compelled to. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's a very good idea. >> Like that's just >> you should come cuz she has questions. >> She's a question person. >> Yeah, she does. >> Cindy, you're a question person. So,
you'll have to come. >> Um I'm a question person. >> Yeah. I wouldn't >> I wouldn't miss an a chance to give Kieran a hard time. >> Yeah. See, you know, like I mean it's I think it's it also helps people if I can
get TKM to record it, then I can put it up online. Cross my fingers there. But um maybe a Wednesday night or Wednesday night. >> That's a great idea. Let's do that. >> I think that's a good idea. And have it it be nice if you they could show it as
it happens to the public >> streaming. And guess who can stream? >> That's right. >> Keep the fire. >> Well, right. That's >> I'm going to kind of >> Yeah. I don't know about I know like Cindy does live stream, >> but for me it's just And again, if you guys are on boards, like if you feel as
though you haven't been heard as a resident, >> fire away. >> Guess I I like that idea. >> Okay. >> You may you may not always like the answers, but >> No, I I always like the answers at all. But >> what day would that be? Any ideas? >> I'll be doing thinking of the select
board. It's Tuesday night. >> Okay. >> It's It'll be every Tuesday for select board and you guys up until I think probably the town meeting. >> So the the um 16th if you're going to meet with us >> I think the 23rd. >> The 23rd. It's kind of like that. Wait,
you can't make any >> but I'm likely asking you guys to say the budget's done as of the 16th. I'm asking I'd be asking Fincom to say the budget's done from your side on the 16th. >> Right.
>> Okay. So, >> you're only a few days away from the town meeting. >> Never mind. >> But I'm going to present it to the select board on the 7th, get the final, you know, iterations of it there >> and then just be done with it.
>> And get it on the website, let people ask questions. Like Don was super helpful. He's like, "Hey, you missed 75K. Tell me if I missed something." You know, like I'd rather let's try to work together and ask questions and learn about it and go from there. >> I like that idea a lot, Don.
>> Okay, good. >> And and I think we should encourage people that we know to come for it. >> Y I've done it before. Doesn't matter. >> I'll do some push-ups before I get off my shirt.
It's more informal like he's talking about. It would encourage more people to ask questions. >> It people don't like to get up and talk in front of them, right? >> I mean, that's like not the most popular. >> Or submit them. >> We can we do something online where >> I'd rather people show up because
>> Yeah. No, no, no, but if you don't want to speak, submit it and we'll answer it that night. >> Oh, you mean to write it out? >> To write it out. It's kind of like it just as a thought. It's kind of like um just be just because you're right. Some people don't like to speak. I don't like
to speak. But >> well, some people think there are stupid questions when there are really stupid questions. >> Not only stupid questions now be fear takes over their communication, right? >> It's kind of that's yep that's >> yeah think about the question
>> after years of giving presentation. I don't mind making a >> they come to the meeting and submit. Yeah, it can't be random. >> Yeah. Drop in a bucket, you know, like I can just pull after somebody hasn't, you can pick one from >> Yeah. pick on somebody if they have the
light. >> You want me to cold call? >> Yeah. >> Nobody likes to be cold called. >> Yes. See if I had that in grad school. Nobody Nobody wins in that scenario. Um but so I think that would be >> good idea. >> It would just be again like we do we
call cookies and milk >> condensible. to come and have cookies and milk and ask questions and fire it away. Ask anything. >> That's what I used to do. They had to give a bad briefing to the colonels at work that they didn't want to hear. I've always been thinking basket of cookies
and sweetened up before I tell you the bad news. >> It just it's supposed to be a way to get ahead of town meeting. >> Yeah. I watched last year's town meeting and the one after that and the one after that. And like how do we avoid >> that was ridiculous. >> Oh, last year.
>> Yeah, that's better rather than to hide things. >> Oh well, this year is this year is tad better, right? >> Yeah. Tad. >> Well, I mean, we didn't have any meaning, >> right? Well, last year we had that awful override.
>> Yeah. >> Nobody knew what it was for >> because it wouldn't tell us. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, somebody knew who it was for, >> right? was a budget that wasn't a budget that >> Yeah, the no budget. >> Yeah. And I just want to tell you it's one thing just so you know. So last year Finn worked very very hard to have an
alternative budget. I'm sure you heard this term. >> I watched it too. Yeah. >> Oh, you watched it. So we had this budget going and we called it the peach budget >> and is almost exactly what you presented almost. So, how is it that they're all over you and saying yes and they wouldn't even let us present it be
>> because we are recommending another it and that was a little bit of an overstep but we were we were trying to provide the input and we weren't having it so we took a parallel path rather than rather than
>> love that parallel path that's good >> I want to bridge them together all >> we're going 65 miles an hour straight ahead slow. >> So very difficult. >> No, the minimum
>> except at night time certain times and I'll drop it to 10. >> We make I think it's time. >> No, no, it's really nice. >> Motion that we adjourn this meeting >> at 8:27 p.m.
>> At 8:27 p.m. >> Second. >> And we have a second. All in favor? Hi. Whatever it was, I love it. >> Oh, >> 27 cut fans.