This is the Towns and Finance Committee. Uh, today's date, April 30th, and like to call the meeting to order at, uh, 6:36 p.m. And again, I know we're all in person, but like to do a
roll call for attendance. Your own boutique is David Walker here. Sam Grant here, Carol present, Hayes present. That is six. And it is a quorum
and we are ready to continue. Um the um meeting is being recorded and it will be played back on channel 9 and posted on the YouTube channel. Um there are
people in the audience. Is anybody else recording this meeting? None being the only reporting is being done by T. Thank you. Additions or deletions at this point. There is none that I'm aware of
other than I'm going to do just a small detour right now. Um I would like to recognize um a member that is not here that has been on the board passed away over the past weekend. Um she has dedicated many years to the town
multiple decades. Um she helped us through quite a bit, helped train um a lot of us in this room. Had a lot of knowledge. She had been select board members. She was on board commissioners. she was on finance
committee. So far as I've gone back, she was there starting in 2006. Um Andy award um was always a voice in the room u whether she was in attendance or attending on the zoom. So I really
appreciate her and what she had passed down to me the knowledge. And I just like to take the minute of silence to remember Okay, thank you. Um, yeah, sorry. Wasn't expecting
it to be kind of tough. The Baltimore Orioles came in today and that was one of our conversations that we had we had over time. How do you get them into your yard? I thought you were talking about the baseball team. Yeah. No, kind of like they're in the yard. Get the
oranges out and they'll they'll come in. Oh, and grape jelly. Oh, yeah. Grape jelly. So, somebody talked about that at Bingo today about the grape jelly, but they say you have to be careful because if it gets too much on their feathers, then
they can't fly, right? Yeah. Yeah. They have smaller smaller containers. It's like they thought was the topic of conversation was feeding the birds today. Yep. Yep. And I I was out there and hummingbirds are in town, too. So, if
you've got some flowering plants, get them out. Okay. Um work session. Um as we get in here, we had been reviewing the on the bus that have been provided to us. Um but that has now changed after after last night. Um there were a couple of
items that came out of last night's select board meeting. See if you hadn't seen it or heard it. Um one of the offer projects the 100,000 for the town housing trust um didn't have the
paperwork followed up. the audit team that we have in doing our annual financial audit picked up on it. And because we are so far down and pasted when things needed to be in place for it, um it's going to be that $100,000
transferred back and used in this year's um FY26's budget. That's nice. So it's unexpected but it's a one time and you know again it helps us for 26 but not the last. Um in addition they went into
executive session and when we came out they had the changes. The file that was provided by Nelson this afternoon which was forwarded out um does not have a line by line accounting for it um
everything. All that they did was um apply the changes for the groups the groupings. So we'll see the changes in the total in the groups but not individual line changes. So there's maybe not a lot we can do with that other than other and take a look at it.
We can see um the changes in the old old And also we we have reviewing the warrant articles. Um but I think I guess I'll leave it open. Do you want to look at the warrant articles first and review it and leave the budget till till last
or go straight? Okay. Um when you do the art there's not too many right on the articles. We'll we'll we'll leave the budget one for the last but in the special town meeting there's only four. Um but the annual meeting has total I
think it was 17 or 18 but some of them. Yeah. So, we'll we'll take a look at them and then we'll switch to All right. Did you send us your um We passed those out last time. We
passed them out last time. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Are you going to put them up? I'm going to put them up so I can think about where I put them. Okay. So, there's one We're not yet. No, no, no. I We're gonna
We're gonna do one and go for We'll do four and then we'll do a break and do the budget and the 13. Okay, now I'll get blurry. It doesn't make any difference. Okay. Um I I had wanted to start with
the special or just wanted what with the special town meeting. Happy birthday. Yeah, that was a 2007. I was I was looking at quite a few things. [Music]
She is. Okay. [Music] [Music] July downloaded meeting. That's that's all we're dealing with
next week, right? No, we when you when you start in the special that you you do the first article which is reading reports um and then you make a motion to adjourn to the special town meeting and then return to the annual after. Why why
are some called special and not just part of the annual? Um generally the items in the special are financial articles to deal with FY25 issues or get ready for the FY20 what you're going to be doing in the
FY26 in Okay, here we go. Okay, so let me Yeah. No, no, let me um You know how school you want me to go first? I'll go
second. You can do that. These ones a shot. Yeah. Yeah. Then I'm sorry. Okay. It'll be here in a minute. Okay. So, the special town meeting articles. Um first one again when you move to the special the first
article is always to see if there's any report from W committees commission's corrections. Article two is let me throw it up better. Okay. So we don't we don't have the
motions yet. We only have the articles to look at. So the first is to and again this is the FY2 5 item uh to see if the town will vote to transfer for free cash or electric funds the treasury the sum of
291,600 um for offsetting the FY25 snow and ice deficits under the general law. So that's where the bulk of the available free cash is going. Um and so this
motion takes us and the budget in the BBA which is negative that and we saw the the summary it was 307,000 and change. Um 291600 is the only amount available is the maximum available in free cash and
so the other 16 we voted in the uh reserve fund transfer last week. Um, so that would total it. But again, when we're looking in voting at at town meeting, we're only looking at the the balance that's in recapture. Um, now generally we make recommendation
motions to recommend an article or not. Um, this one seems fairly straightforward. We may get to some articles that we're not going to make recommendations on that we're not going to make them. There's there's something we Yeah. If they're not financial, we
don't. if the financial it's kind of like if we don't have the information. So I think we recommend that we approve this, right? I mean we kind of kind of have to. Yeah. Yeah. You kind We have to make a motion on that. We we should I will make the motion that we that we recommend approving article two. I'll
second it. Second. Okay. So we have the motion and a second. Any additional questions? Okay. None being heard. Roll call vote, please. Mayor Jean Churchville. Yes. Yes. Walker. Yes. Grant. Yes. Carol House
says yes. Don yes. Unanimous. We'll pay our bills. Article three. um to see if the town will vote to course out old warrant articles and reallocate um to renovations of Memorial
Hall, including the replacement of the exterior trim, painting, and stone windows. Um what these are and you can see in the highlight this um you can see in the
number the year um that the the this was um a motion at town meeting. So there's two from 2023 and one from 2019. And so there is in the details I talk about
um when when they were done. So there's remaining a balance in in these. So the three are going to total $53,784.74 and that will be transferred to the special town meeting article 3 for 2025. Um that would create this and
move it. Um we don't have the funds um in capital the capital stabilization money. We we don't there was only $80,000 or $81,000 in the capital stabilization. Oh capital, right? So um that and the
capital the capital plan had the um town hall renovations that are discussed here, the painting, the storm windows listed and approved by capital planning. And so this is the way of funding this going back and calling back money. So is
is this where is this money sitting now? Is this money sitting in a fund? It's sitting in these accounts. Um they they were pro and like it and we'll talk about just the first one. The rest are similar. So in 2019 um at the special
town meeting in December, we voted to say put $50,000 into an account to do some repairs. Okay. Um, and oh no, this was charter. It's kind of like it's a little shorthand here. Um, so there was a lot of money put in there and they
didn't use it all. So now we're clinging back that money. So So that money didn't get put into free cash the next year. No, because it's in an account for a specific purpose. Okay. Um, so it's it's not going in they're not general. It's not general funds fund. Yeah. Okay. So, so that money is still sitting there
unused and now we're now they're propos now we're proposing to take the money and apply it to this to close that balance and bring it back and put it into a new account for 2025. Okay. Okay. So, this is going to still go to
um the windows and things like that. This is this is exterior trim painting stone windows. Okay. Have we received a um an estimate on this? I don't know that we have an estimate on it. And the other question I had is I
don't know if they've done with the building evaluation yet. We've got a report back from the company that was doing the evaluation of all town facilities because I I I don't it doesn't really make sense to me
that especially we took up part of that it would be that much. 28,000 28. Yeah. Um, what what are you on the 28,000? Yeah. Are you talking about the
building the halls? The memorial the windows in the hall. What's What's the trim? What's the harbor fire thing? Um that um that I might have to go back and look at
it, but that was um is that the new station or the old one? Oh, like that. I think it was it could have been the old one because um Cherry Hill, right? Let's let's let me go back and take a look at that. That's part of
the evaluation I didn't get to do. So we haven't received anything like I there is no supporting documentation for these. So um
Don, can I speak? Sure. Yep. Go ahead. Um uh this was part of the capital plan. So Gerilyn and Carol, if you look at the capital plan that was put forward in
capital planning, um we had voted to approve these things. They were facilities made requests for this. Um so look at the capital plan and that should perhaps settle it for you.
Well, I remember the capital plan very well, but um Well, thank you. Um, but did was there any backup documentation or was it just a quote that came in from department head for that? Well, I thought a new I thought a quote has come
has come in. I thought there was a quote in correct. There's one. There is one. Okay. I just don't have I'm confused why we don't have the quote. I guess. How much is the quote for? I mean, did that leave some Is it lower
than John? I just I I can email it to you if you want. I have it on my phone. I just don't know who your email is. The one. Yeah, it's um Don Hayes Jr. Townson.
Okay. Atyahoo.com. All right. Thank you. Check spam. Okay, I don't see it. Here we go. Okay. So, page two. So, that one must be page
one. How much is it? I can't. Okay. Looks like 68 something. Looks like 68,900. How about that? Let me check the detail list. Is that an old um or is that new?
Um it was March 14th of this year. H2. It just continues with the remainder of the work was being done. No additional. So we we we've paid some of that, right? I don't have today. Oh, okay. Well, if
they do if the if the invoice is from last month, this is not an this is an estimate. An estimate. So, we don't know if any of the money. So, if we took money from whatever was left over from facilities last year, do they have anything left over? Um, well, the
article is looking to transfer how much was it? Um, 53. Yeah. So, they look these 53784. Let me get [Music] BVA facilities. There is still repair
and maintenance for the buildings. There is still balance. At the end of March, it was 20,000. Still there. 20,000 20,000 so you take some of this add it to the 53 and you can and you have enough you have enough I don't yeah so
we have to make sure that that's the plan is to use the existing building building funds so just a quick question um so would just putting it out there
would fixing those windows and and in the memorial hall would that constitute like an emergency situation which would be made available by our resource funds possibly. Um it's really not. Um these these are long needed
repairs. Um so it's if if there was something that caused the damage like that then I'd say yes. Um but to to your point can we do something with the reserve fund even if it's not an emergency?
[Music] one of the windows, right? If we had that kind of emergency, there may be, but we'd be looking at their account and seeing $20,000 in there for repairs. So, we wouldn't do that. However, one of the items that I've
read, we can present at and we have a town meeting come up. See if we can do it where the town votes on approving the reserve fund because it's not for an emergency. Okay. We have the emergency
we we have yeah available money similar um similar to the the other transfers because we are tomorrow we will be in the municipal transfer relief window the last two months of fiscal yeah the last
two months of the fiscal year if there's money but if we make this transfer that with what they have remaining in their budget it's enough to cover they have enough to cover this this Right. So, you know, I I don't know it I don't know what other invoices Rob may have coming
in. They may have monthly maintenance or contracts that they have that going to come out of there, but that's it. It's looking like, you know, it could be money money there to uh to help cover the total of the of the quote of 69,000.
But it needs to be covered when you know we we we'll need to see what the plan is to cover the next the other 16,000 for that for that quote. Okay. And again that's you know what happens
if it goes over it's an estimate if at some point he doesn't typically go over unless he's usually very good. Well, no. I mean, unless it's something un unexpected, right? Right. Which is the reserve fund situation.
Yeah. So, can we wait to make figure that out? Yeah, we we can. I mean, we if we're going to do recommendations, we need to do them and print them before the uh annual town meet date on the 6. So,
we'll have to schedule something for say Monday and uh finish them up. Yeah. Monday. So what do we think we need? We need to know from we we need to know where the rest where the rest of it where the balance is coming from. Yeah. The quot 69,000 and we're moving 53. The
69 689 689. Yeah. Which is essentially 69. So any left over budget, right? Right now there at the end of March there was money in the budget. Yeah. How much? 60 68,900.
689. Okay. Yeah. So that's probably why I round it up to $100. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So we find the 24 somewhere else like in professional services or some other spot. Um you move it.
Yeah. I called up his BBA again. Yeah. Facilities. Um there is facilities professional services money available at this point. Um it's 26% use. So there's 24,000. So there's a couple of accounts
in in facilities that looks like they might be able to make up the difference. Um so again that's that's one of those. It was approved. Um well falling down should be doing something about it. He's going out
the windows. It's kind of like all all those things. It's kind of like so sealing the windows and doing that kind of thing is going to improve the energy cost and bring that down. So we're not doing it and I'm sure that's why your capital planning is
right. So it's kind of you know so so can we say that can we make a motion that we take the money from alternative funds um being that well we can recommend the article but during during the discussion we need to see where the
other money's coming from. It's kind of like it needs to be if it's presented. So and that's why I say maybe we want to hold off until we know the whole story of where the where where is the rest of that 689 coming from. [Music]
So the cruiser that's part of that um no cruisers. Okay. Cruisers in in the regular annual town meeting article for capital. Well, so can that um provide an
alternative way to um we we have seen something but I don't know what the plans are from leadership leadership being voter select and town administrator anything to us um no we we don't have the motion um and there's no
discussion about this article yet um all that we have is the warrant article to discuss and the warrant article is is looking at it. The warrant article was moving $53,000 in into an account, but looking
at it, the invoices for 69. So, there appears to be a gap. So, we're looking for an answer where the gap how the gap is going to be covered. Okay. Professional services, right? Um maybe go to reserve. Well, it it's it could be they um as we do this at town
meeting, we'll set up the new account number and then there could be a municipal transfer request to take it from one of those accounts and so we so we're going to revisit this. We I think we need to revisit right like right I yeah and just to make sure it's the
quote yesterday okay leave it over okay so at this point we'll make no recommendation on article three is town hall town hall where's memorial hall oh no no memorial hall that's it that's what I kind of thought they're both one and the same and yeah they're the same
building just different thank Yeah, I thought so. Doesn't have a roof. We're looking around a place where all the other buildings are. Yeah. See that? Um, we had moved when you look at that article that the 2023 article for the town hall roof and wreck stairs. There had been
money for the wreck roof. And when that was done, there was money left over and we moved that 26,749 into another special town meeting article for the town hall roof and the rec stairs. Never used it. So that's why
that full amount. So we had 23,000. Well, that's that's 26, but no, it's but we're moving that in this article. This article is taking that that's part of the 53, 774 a couple years ago. I thought we had HTC. Didn't they put
the roof on on the building? Yes. And that's what I'm saying is they they allocated 50,000 they estimated $50,000. We voted a town meeting to put $50,000 into the And it was yeah it was 24 or 23 and
change which left that to 26 749. Okay. All right. So your general feeling is to not make a recommendation to get more information until we get more information. This is a part this this only partially funds it. I mean you know it's kind of like if if
the rest of it is going to come that's that's nice but we don't have that answer right now. So, okay. Um, we'll see. We'll see what the claims are. Article four to see if the town will close out old warrant articles and
reallocate to the capital stabilization account. The balances as indicated below for a total of $26,32920. on the on the first one, you can see no year. So, it's kind of like I don't know exactly when that account was set up. Um, but you can see the other two were
2016 and 2018. And so, those those are no longer um so that's my that's money that was allocated at the town meeting. It wasn't and they didn't use all they didn't use all of it. And so, they just want to put it back into the capital
fund. Right. Yeah. That's a good place to put it. So I I would make I'll make a motion that we recommend this article for approval. I'll second that. Okay, we have a motion in a second. Any further discussion? Uh what do you mean by the American Legion? What were we doing
there? [Music] Um I can't I I don't have the details. Yeah, it's kind of like um there there was an account set up for it. Um it doesn't have a year. So I there's no way to go back and reference what where
where it came from where they had actually done that. It is okay some some special town meeting or or annual town meeting allocated the money for that and that's the description that's on the account and that's why
they're using it. Okay. Um, yes. Just Yeah, we're both just keep going with Yes. Yes. David Walker. Yes. Sam Grant. Yes. Hus.
Yes. Weing article 4. now annual meeting. Oh, now well okay just came up a minute ago. That was the bill. That was the
bill. Yeah. And thank you. Okay. What would you like to address? Are we doing the annual town meeting articles though or not? Um, after budget we can. Oh, we're doing after. Okay, that's fine. Well, it's
kind of like if it it will be part of the annual budget. So, it's kind of Okay. So, if we if we look at the articles, I'm just going to page down till I see there's a lot of page 39 pages here. Yeah, I know.
I know. Um, and The budget's being done towards the end but not in the beginning of that one is that one will be article 11 when we get there. So So the budget
is article 11 in the end. Oh, the budget is article 11, right? This is the preliminary. Then we get to the Yeah. So, it's kind of like if you want to go through until we get to the So, you want to go in sequence? I don't know. We can go in sequence and get to
it. There's um article one again uh we're not going to make a recommendation because it's just that generic uh to see if there's any reports for boards, committees, or commissions. Article two is a zoning bylaw. Um
So yeah, so they moved zoning bywise to the beginning. So we'll we'll hit zoning by um article two is Oh, sorry. Yep. Article two is the appointing um authorized to vote to appoint town officers unless
um provisions are made by Mass General law. Um so this is this is just saying that the select board will do the appointments that they've always done. This is not yet changed. No, there there is there was no changes. This is when
um and we'll take for for instance, we just had the annual elections. Not all positions were voted. We didn't have people running. So now volunteers can come in and apply for those and they would appoint those positions. I see. Um
uh they're going to do appointments for firefighters, for police, for everybody that they usually do appointments for um on boards. There's no new hires. There's no new hires. This is this is just appointing the people they normally appoint. Is this something that they renew every
year? It is. This is an annual We do every year. Yeah. So we are we make a motion on it. We I don't think we need to make a motion on it. There's no there's no financial, but I just want to make sure that if there's any questions about the articles that we cover them.
We cover them. Can you make it a little bigger, please? Yep. Sorry. It's kind of like I changed. Okay. So, we're on two or three. We're on three. We're now on three. I mean, is this something that we would be recommending? I mean it doesn't seem like this is something they need. No,
they generally zoning right it's not going this no this is the restricted development one um this this is planning board presenting it article four to see if um
district this is the flood plan for district um there's new flood planes out from FEMA. Um, and so this is the adoption of the new plans. Um, the next article scrolling article five is updating the Z
the town zoning map with the new overlay. Okay. So there's no financial there's no financial impact. This is just planning planning board updating the zoning and adding the plans
to article six community preservation bylaw. Dave, you had a question on this one last week. Oh, this is one that if we don't fund it, does it can we get rid of it? Yeah. And the answer is no. It's kind of like um it was approved by vote.
So they can start collecting in July. Um the this this article is complimentary to it but it it doesn't prevent um prevent them taxing us. Right. You have to wait five years and after five years is that official five years. Yes. I went
on the state website. I went on state if we don't authorize the board for five years. Then after five years five years you can resend it. Can we what what happens to the money that that's been collected if we if we resend it in five years? I didn't read all that. I just
I just wanted to know about recyc this this is to set up um and add to the town charter. Um the So the town has to vote on this. The town has to vote on this. So what if they say no? If they say no, we the funds will be
collected and they'll probably try to rework this if if and find out what the objection to to the wording of this one is. My objection is not to the wording. My objection is to the tax do all this and it's gone from my
brain. Yeah, last year. Yeah, we voted on one of the votes. They had the provision to add a 1% sir tax to establish this fund to where what to your property tax. So you're going to pay initial an additional 1% this year on your property taxes for this fund,
right? Minus the the $100,000 exemption to start whatever. Yeah. And so that's and so this now establishes the commission to try to apply those funds someplace somewhere. Right. Right. And and again, this is the committee that's going to determine the projects. The
projects have to come to town meeting and get approved to get approved. So it's kind of like so that Oh, so they could hold it off in 5 years by not approving the plants. It that's a possibility. It's kind of And you have to I think 10% of this there's three
funds and you have to three major sections. Yeah. Do we know I mean do they haven't committee yet? Correct. No, no, no. This this is the that's what this does is establish that committee. Okay. What are we preserving? Whatever the committee decides
recreation open. Yeah. Say again. Historical recreation and housing. Recreation the problem. Historical I find some housing. Okay. That's not fine.
I was just going to state what some of the uses were. So there's multiple things. So like other community preservation, for example, if Harbor Pond was infiltrated with um the weeds that grow and show, you can treat that.
They do that in Groten and Tinsboro, right? Um if folks that live in apartments wanted community gardens to grow vegetables because they don't have access to fields, they could do a community garden for folks. If folks in any of the historic districts, even
community members have homes that needed restoration, they could go into that. It's not necessarily for just public homes for restoration. What is there a It's got to be so old homes. There's a whole lot of details.
Um there's things that could be done for folks to help them stay in their homes. There's some communities that have done like a reverse tax program so that seniors can actually stay in their homes. So, it's there's thousands of projects that have been done across the
state. Yeah. And usually uses Yeah. Yeah. There's lots of information on the and it's matching on the website. I've I've written some of the community preservation grants in other communities and it helps you get matching from other foundation and philanthropic grants and
it can often be used for other um federal or state funding too. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Like it is a very complex piece. Okay. So how that kind of Yeah. Again, it's kind of
like it's passed the the financial piece is is going in. Um and at this point, oh, this is a good one. Number seven. Um yeah, number seven was a citizens
petition to increase the um size of the select board from three to five members. I think it's a great idea. It's a great idea. Thank you citizen. I make a motion that we accept this without any recommend. I recommend
Okay. There's no finance comp. Yeah, but I think the finance component to this is negative because this is going to add more cost to the board of selection. Dave, no. So, well, you're going to I mean the Oh, you mean going on there to
to travel and Well, whatever that whatever you got to pay. I know. But look, more supporting. But look, you need three people. We've just gone through two years of two people and then one people and then nobody and then
they have little clicks and they do what they want and then one five man out. I mean, I don't see how that's going to change with five people though. No, no, there'll be more. It'll be bigger. But I don't I don't know. I don't I just don't think it's going to be any better. I don't think I think you're still going to have the same problems. We can figure
out a way to convince him. Yeah, it's way better. I don't think I don't think it's going to be any better. Dave, is that because of your faith in humanity or No. What? No, it's because my lack of faith. I guess I'm kind of with you. That
should be I guess I guess I guess I'm with you Dave on the You don't think five is better than three? I don't know. I don't think it's going to make any difference is what I'm saying. I think it's all it's going to do is cost a the board of selectment now is going to have more
money that it needs to spend to support five people rather than three people. So it's just going to add cost burn to the town. I'm not saying it's going to be huge, right? But I think it's so there's that piece. But if if we take for instance what happened last year and two
selectmen resigned in a board of five, you still have a functioning board and your town can function. When we were down to one select board member, you couldn't do anything. You didn't have a form. You you were running for a couple of months um until the election. Well, I
mean the answer to that is to is to better select each person in a perfect world. Yeah, experiences around the country with three versus five and seven boards. Well, after the meeting if you want to
talk, I'll tell my experiences with three member boards around seven to seven member board. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, okay. Something that we have to worry about. All right. It's gonna No, but and as you
read it and we look at our bylaws, if we approve it here, it has to go to an annual town vote, which is next April, which is up to the people. Which is up to the people. Oh, yeah. The people should decide, right? The people will decide. So, this is going to say basically we want to get it on to the
next the ballot next year. Oh, right. then you'll vote for it in April and then after that you come into town meeting or they can start preparing the budget for for five person boards kind of um those are pieces but find more
money I want to find more money find less money yeah you you want to you want to cut costs yeah I want a tax refund right um we we did have a motion and a second Oh did we on Yeah. Well, I'll take a
recommendation. You want We need more discussion on this. We need to be able to convince more people like you and Dave. Yeah. No, it's it's not that you we can we can take a vote. We don't have to be unanimous. We are like we are the town's people and we represent. There are people on both sides of this. It's
like this is this is not if this is just to get it on the ballot. I for getting it on the ballot, letting the people figure out what to do. That's what ballots are for. Y making that motion, Sam? I'll do that. Okay. So, who's who's doing what? Okay.
Is Sam going to be first? Yes. I wrote that the town puts this on to the ballot recommend and then decide at the polling where they want them. That's right. from a historical perspective. Didn't they try this once before? Yeah. Wasn't
this tried before? I don't know. Yeah, it was um I want to say maybe back in 2016 there. Okay. I've lost four years of my life, so I don't know what happened in 2024.
I just remember this being this coming up once. Okay. Okay. In it. Oh, so we need a vote now. We had a second. So, any further discussion? No. Okay. And a roll call vote. Mary Jane Churchill. Yes. Carol, yes. David Walker, no.
Grant, yes. And Carol House is yes. Because I don't mind it going on the ballot. Don't worry. I have no problem being a lone voice in a voice and again we're supposed to be representatives.
So five to one no problem. Yeah. I think it is the I don't think we should be you know two different opinions three. I did I was yes. So 5 to one.
Okay. uh revolving fund article. Do we want to skip that for now? No, let's just get over. Okay, we'll keep going in order. Yep. Um and then at some point we can review details if we
want. So what this is is at town meeting. These are the are the 12 revolving accounts that we have currently set up. And each one there is like the recycling um
and um it probably could be salt called solid waste. When we look at the bylaws it said it was supposed to be set up this I thought there were two of them. Wasn't the recycling and solid waste? No no there's just one but it's called solid waste in the book in the in the
bylaws. So it's kind of it should be changed to follow the bylaw or the bylaw needs to be changed to follow bylaw. Yeah. But and again this is this is naming on the account and and it's been this account for as long as I could go
back and find um change is always good though. it it if if necessary. And and so this is the revenues are coming in from the recycling center up um on Mason Road. Um, and those revenues are coming
in and we're we're paying the salaries of the people working in the recycling center as as well as the removal of of when are we able to m what we're bringing in are we able to pay them without the town being that's yeah so
the the work is two Saturdays a month generally unless you're a spring cleaning time which is we're in now and they're open every weekend from like April 15th to May 31st. Okay. Minus the weekend for Memorial Day
weekend. So, all right. So, this is for the recycling. This is for the recycling. But what about recycling center? The recycling center. Yeah. Why do I keep getting hung up with the solid waste thing with the tickets or the not the
ticket, the the bags? The bags. The feed. Yeah. The feed. Okay. So the originally the bags were purchased as overflow bags and right and that revenue went to the board of health
in this account. So they were that was the revolving account and it was for the extra the extra again it was only the excess. So we had two back two two 64 gallon barrels I think.
164. So that means So if you have So it's in another spot. Okay. Yeah. So now we've already Well, okay. I get it. Since page came in recycling, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
Um the recreation programs at 100,000 a couple years ago. Um it was at 80,000 with the money that's coming in and rolling out. They're paying all their rec. They're paying their expenses. All of that is coming out of the recreation revolving fund. Now, so when this says
spending limit, does that is that saying that they can't spend more than 100,000 a year in that account? Correct. So if more than that comes in, it just stays in that account. It stays in that account. If if during the year, this is approved at town meeting. If during the year they find there is they have more
money coming in and they have extra expenses, they can come to board assortment or finance where the two boards uh those two boards can approve raising the limit before the next town meeting. So they're not stuck but this this is the annual review of those
accounts. Okay. So if they get the cash they can come to the these two committees and say we want to use it for this. We yeah we we want to spend more. It it's kind of like our our expenses are going to go over this this year. Um and and we do that and
again if we look at recycling it was 33,000 last year. So how does these maintenance bring money in? Um we rent Memorial home. Oh. Oh and the reading the reading room has its own um
revolving fund and and we'll see that later on. Uh but there is some money that comes in for facilities. Um and okay, it it's there so if they need cleaning cleaning and and expenses, they can use that to pay for some expenses, too.
Okay. Cemetery. Cemetery, those are the pots and and all the work associated there. Fire alarms is the fire department doing the alarm inspections. And so that comes in, the money comes in from the inspections and and goes out to
pay expenses associated. Um, animal care, we talked about this. I thought there was no I thought they didn't bring money in. Um, that one I'm going to have to look at. It's kind
of like it sounds like I think animal control officer can charge back to people. I think so. Yeah. Like you can get you can get a ticket if your dog's running loose too much. Get one. I mean I don't think you necessarily do like I don't but you can
I never and this would if they care for your dog and you come pick it up. Yeah. Like like let's say if your dog is constantly getting out, right? Right. Then eventually then you can start getting you know she's going to start issuing a site gets out once every four
years. I mean get out. Okay. Hey once every four years. Mhm. You know, something like that. But if they if she has to put it in the kennel and care for it, then it probably be a bill for it, too. So, it it goes in there and she can pay expenses that might be associated with it if it's not her kennels if she
had to hire out a kennel. Oh, right. To cover them. So, kills a chicken. You have to pay for the chicken. Yeah. Really? Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. I know that. Oh, you know that? Experience. It's been a Well, I don't
anymore, but if it was a chicken, he brought he brought the chicken back to the person. Oh. Oh, the chicken was quite dead. Good boy. Fire EMS from fire EMS services. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So, what does that mean? Um, good question. Just kind of like um don't particularly know off the top of my head. Let's see what get more info. Let's see what we got. So, that was And this is Let me
find it and then I'll pull it up. Okay. Yeah, find it first. Dogs. I have doggies on my um Okay. So, I don't see anything in the expenses. Let me go to What number is what series number? Um
220. Yeah. So is this is this where if Pepper uses our ambulance, we get paid? No, that's that's that's in the fun. But are they going to start paying? Are they because
they've lost not lost they know where they are but because we go so often to I I I don't have details on that. I I believe that the fire chief is working with purple to try to recover um some
money some some money but so he'll let us know when he's got it down nailed down. Yeah. Um, yes. Um, I don't see anything expense or Yeah, we we So, it's kind of like that could be one that could go
away. I don't see anything an expense, no balances. What doesn't? It's It's not $5,000. There's no money in the account. There's no account. So, it's it's an unused account. It's a piece. It's a piece of data. Well, it wouldn't be in the on the
bus, right? It would not be in the omnibus. These these revolving accounts are outside the omnibus. Um because there's money coming in and going out. So um it was 5,000 5,000. So we're going to look at
number seven and and see if see if that's used. doesn't doesn't necessarily appear to be used in conservation 20,000. Yeah, conservation has 20,000. What does that mean? Um Oh,
sorry. Conservation Commission. Yeah. You've been looking at I've been looking at the numbers all day. And I Oh, these are revolving. These are the this is the general ledger for the revolving accounts. Um so and I
apologize if um I didn't get them out to you. I just started looking at them um yesterday. Um well this yeah kind of um so you can see the um this this one old meeting
house park revolving fund. Did you see it on the list? Where's old? No, I didn't see where is it. Where's old meeting house park? Up on meeting house at the top. So, it's kind of Yeah, I know it's tiny. Okay. And it fits. It's kind of like Thank
you. So, yeah. So, during this review, I said, "Oh, look. Old meaning house park revolving tongue. But it's nothing that there's nothing in here that says old meaning house. So what happened to Yeah, this is the first I've discovered it.
First time I've seen it. Oh, so we need more information on it. Yeah, we need to go back and and take a look at it. There's money in in the account that's been sitting there for 10 or 15 years. We have to find what the revolving account was set up for, what the purpose was, and and investigate it and come
back. But okay, it it needs to be probably brought brought back active again to and we need to investigate it. It's kind of like just just discovered like I say just discovered today working out. Interesting.
So that's brand new. So fires again they keep yeah they this is hazard the hazardous materials. Oh so this one is is a little different. So it kind of um and then um
firearms licensing was set up and the two new that we had created for police for the detailed cruiser fees and the police public record requests um those were set up last year and the year before. Um and they're the 3,000 and we
can if we come in here we can see um scroll down to police and we see it. So the 210 again is is their in the BBA. That's that's their department number. And so um a
little bit the school resource officer that we've seen pop up on the recap sheet just recently. Yes. Um and then so the firearms revolving the public records request and the detail. So is that saying the resource officer is no longer going to be in a revolving account? No. um since it got added to
the omni. No, no, it it was always in the revolving account, but it was never on the recap sheet that I recall seeing before. So, it's new on the recap sheet and re revenue that we're getting from North Middle Sex, the school district to
pay for the resource officer, right? But then the resource officers got added to the police budget, right? because in when he did his original budget, he just did that officer as SRO and his salary was not included in the police line. So,
it's totally offsetting. No, I know it's offsetting. I guess what I'm what I'm wondering is you said in general these revolving accounts are not in the omnibus, right? Which is I think that's I think that's why the officer wasn't there before. Okay. And I guess
what I'm wondering is so why is he there now if it's not typically I will ask the auditors may have picked the auditors may have said you need to Okay. Yeah. It's kind of like and that might be a new one. I have not seen the audit report come in from for sale yet. When will we get that? Um I believe we're expecting it June
1st. Um but they they were in doing the audit and they finished finished up the and they should do their management letter and and the full report and we get a copy of that. We get a copy of that and then we have joint meeting with the audit committee, finance committee,
board of selectment and the audit team comes in or um the head of Roselli comes in and does the presentation of it and we we have the ability to ask questions on the audit at that time. So anyway,
this is there's one in here that's not on the sheet that looks like it either needs to be on the sheet or what happens to the money in that account. We need to revive it. What was it? It had a purpose. It had a purpose. We created the account and and so we did it. Um so
this is just re redoing them. I like it said everything except recycling is the same amount as last year. I believe I'm doing my quick check. You believe you do. So, do you make a motion on this one or
do we bypass it? We can we can make a motion. It is somewhat financial on the accounts. Uh, but if you want to wait until we look at Well, I know we didn't look in great detail at the No, we didn't pay a lot of attention. No, but
um we have another meeting before. Yeah. Well, you can. It's got to be Monday and I got to get it posted uh quickly because Monday is the only day before I know it. And especially if we're going to do the recommendation sheets to get them done and printed. Um
Monday's Monday is the best day. Oh, Monday, not Tuesday. Not Tuesday because Tuesday is kind of like to to do the recommendation sheets and print them and get them right. So Monday we have the meeting and then we print these up our
recommendations. So, and I apologize, the cemetery is up to 35,000 this year. It was 30 30,000 last year. Um, oh, the police was on for 80,000 last
year for that Yeah. position. Yeah. For the for the uh resource officer. I mean functionally it doesn't matter if if you have them on the omnibus as if it
I'm just curious why the change in accounting right and yeah it it could be the accounting or it could be that we've also changed town administrators and it was a Dawn it's Veronica Kell it was a recommendation by the accountant and
um DLS DO. Thank you. That's it. Okay. So, we can move on. We take a motion. Um I will entertain a motion if if you want to make one on uh recommending article 8.
I just want to clarify the recycling revolving account is specified under 104-1 of our bylaws. It is for specifically recycling purposes. The solid waste fund is a revolving account specified under section 37-
Yeah. 37-5 of our bylaws. Thank you. And that is specifically for exactly should be going. Okay. Yep. Right. It's kind of Thank you. And yet not yet.
and and we haven't had solid weight as a revolving account. Maybe. No. Well, we'll see. We'll see. Kind of um you want to make a motion to recommend balances for the revolving
account or just Sure. I'll make a motion that we recommend these balances on removing it balance. I'll second it. Okay. So, we got a motion and a second. Any further discussion or questions? Okay.
Now, please. Mary Dan Churchill. Yes. Bikers. Yes. David Walker. Yes. Sam, yes. Carol Hoffus, yes. Don Hayes, yes. and and I do have an action to look at that inactive one and find out why
meeting. Yep. Or at least bring it up and see if we can get it. Article 9. Um the town will recommend to amend chapter 104 of the bylaws entitled authorized revolving funds.
Adding adding funds. Yeah. And we're going to Oh, here's the list. Here's the fund. town hall public records request. Very similar to the police records request, but this is for when when the
records requests come in to town hall and and uh it would be fees associated with it collected. And um um what are the fees? Are they is it the printing fee that we're or what
printing? It could be investigation fees if if certain number of hours I believe um are spent doing the work it takes away from it and how that would be funded by the person who's doing the request. Correct.
Yeah. Yeah. So records request cut down record. They had a paper themselves. Right. Don't you have to do some is there is four hours? I forget. Yeah. No, there's no threshold. Um because we're
under 20,000. The only thing is is that if it's readily available records, you just release them. The public has the right to know. It's something that has to be researched, redacted, and all of that, then that's a whole different
balling. Yeah. If you could put your hands on it like five minutes or a half hour. Yeah. And but if you're spending four hours, right? Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yes. As a frequent Yeah. Great question. As a late person, it's
because it's not readily available on our website, but I test first if it's available on somebody else's website. Mhm. So that might be something that collectively our community can work for is that it's a lot of these would not happen. I can go to other towns and just
about everything that I've asked for. That's pretty critical. Yeah. I hate to Yeah, exactly. If we were Oh, is that number nine? That was number nine. Yeah, we recommending or we doing
something. I'll make a motion to recommend Oh, the the Okay, so we had a motion public records request involving account. Um, and a second by any other discussion or questions?
None being heard. Well, no, I guess I guess so. So So they haven't nothing's been stated about the threshold for charging a fee, right? Do we do we have an actual fee schedule? Like you charge in 25 bucks an hour? I mean, whatever it is, she can charge us $25 an hour.
Usually goes to the lowest paid person that is able to do the job. So depending on what it is, because is it going to be some kind of take accounting? Yeah. Um the assistant
accountant is more able to do most of it versus the department assistant. Y so it would be the $25 versus is there going to be like a fee schedule say like the first half hour is free and then after that I have no idea because I don't they
didn't Okay. So we don't really know how it's we don't know how it's going to be implemented. Right. I have no idea what it's for. Oh, or how they came up with the $5,000 figure. They just made that up.
What the money would be used for. Ah, isn't that the spending limit? I don't know. That's the spending limit would come in. As far as where the money's going, whether it's with coffee fees or or what
if back to the department, it could be a transfer. So when we do charge a fee, we will not release the record until we receive the fee. If there's mailing costs or cost for a thumb drive or something, it would basically tomorrow.
Okay. Okay. And we haven't seen any any bylaw up above that explains what the what the fees are. So um we need to relate the bylaw to the um this this actually when we look at this bylaw this is the bylaw
that talks about um revolving revolving funds but as far as fees goes there there is a section in the in the bylaws for fees too where it's So that I would maybe think that is supposed to be
a an associated article to take the fee section of the Bible. So we need more information. Yeah. Yeah. I second. So I guess we have to No, we um can we withdraw? I think you can make a motion to um and then we we request
more information and see. Okay, I'll make a motion to withdraw. I'll second it. Okay. Sorry. Yeah, you did. You made Oh, I did. Yeah, you made a motion. That's okay. And I just made it to
override you, right? Yeah. I I would say article 10 is not necessary. Article 10's moved, right? Because the override vote failed. It actually is not. Um I would I would say at this point if if we have a
balanced budget going in and we don't make any changes to it, then the answer will be yes. If if somebody makes a change to a budget that's going to take it and increase increase it, you might still need an override. I I think there's going to this is going to be
take no action, but like at this point we would Okay. So, you're saying if the adjustments that we make or that are made on artic during article 11's review. So yeah, article 10 really should come after article 11 then it
yeah it's in this case in here it's going to be before but we should do it after after we look at the oh we should we should because if the town because if the town votes certain things that says okay now we're over the two and a half limit we need to revisit
article 10 to say okay now we need now we need a second a second ball with a different so it seems like article 10 needs to get moved moved. Um, after article 11,
they should be reumbered. Yeah, I don't know if that's how they do things. Well, no, you can make a motion to move. Yeah, you can make a motion to to go out of order. Um, why did they make that like ch and a to Well, you can't you'd have
to make a mo motion to to to break it into break the consideration change the consideration because the articles printed. Yeah, I'd believe it that you know you pass over article 10 and and go to 11, look at the budget and find out what the budget is when you get the bottom line. Yeah. and and what it looks
like when you take that budget and plug it into the recap sheet. And again, we still have articles that are coming after that can have an impact on a two and a half over after 11. Yes. Yeah. You um after 11, then we get into some of
the articles about additional funds and Okay. So, you don't have those on the printout we had last time. Oh, okay. Um, okay. I'm sorry. For those looking I don't have an article 12. Oh, no. Oh,
I'm sorry. I misspoke. Okay. No, I do. I just wasn't looking 12 14. This is the goes down to 19. Now we can talk about we can talk about the budget. Just what everybody wants to
do. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, so the budget in the warrant article. Oh, did we skip 11? No, 11 is the budget. 11's the budget. Okay. So, it's kind of like what's in the warrant is no longer valid. It's no longer valid. This This was what was
valid at the time they printed the warrant and posted it. I see. So there's a new one is there's going to be a new one going to be what we what we have been provided by Nelson is the new omnibus um that does not have
details in it in it. So let me so let me so I have a question about So it's the Yeah. So what we have is the totals by the section by what? By the sections. So we're trusting the rope. So, we're just going by what he says. Vote for it. We don't need to know the details because I
don't think we should work it together. I understand. So, let me take a look and see. Is there really one thing together? Um, well, one of the things that they said that they actually said last night in
front of everybody that watches is that I believe it was Valerie, our new select person, asked if they were going to share the information with Fin and they said no. Yeah. So, what does that mean?
Um well they I believe what they were meaning by that is the details related to um human resources that may be impacted. They can't give us those details. That was it. That's all they meant.
Yeah. Okay. It's kind of like because in order to give it to us, we would know what their plans are and they haven't discussed with the unions yet. So, you know, and there's another question I have because again on TV when they were discussing the union and
discussing executive, right? So, Lori Shiffren said um she's unqualified. Nelson said, "I don't really want to do it." So, that was left last man standing was Veronica who I guess has had experience doing it, but why aren't we hiring a real person
who can negotiate for the municipality? I understand it will increase the budget, but it seems to me that that is a good thing to spend some money on because this is going on and on. Where's Where's Adam Costa and all that?
Um um I'm not I think he only reviews the final contracts. I don't think he's part of I don't think he's a labor. I think we should find Collins who labor what master. We have labor council. Yeah. How about
that? Do we know who it is? Oh, you don't? So, how do you know we have a How do you know we have a Because it's not in he work for the town. He worked for himself. part of our working force. He might be
part of um mention which is the Oh, so it would be the same a law firm. It's same law firm, different attorney. So there would be under the cover. It would be So he'd be covered under the budget for whatever
cost of the attorney line. Okay. Do but we don't know who it is. Does Veronica, you know who it is? Yes, it's Jane Freriedman and she and we do consult with her on all negotiations and I believe she's the
attorney that will be present for annual town meeting. Was that the woman that was on the stage the last time in March I believe? No, that was Lisa me. So yeah, maybe it's time Mr. chairman to
look at that because how many meetings has Adam missed as our main he's our main guy right he is yeah um and socially another special that was discussed last night at the select board meeting
kind of um and and I believe that the March one was pre-engagement I um a prior engagement for Adam in this one is because town meeting. There's a lot of town meetings and and the they don't
have enough people to cover all the towns. Yeah, that could could be um I mean KP Law I mean there's other municipal attorneys. I mean they may be more expensive but maybe we can get maybe Adam Adam's a
great guy. has been with us a long time, but maybe someone that really wants to have we're not a priority. That's correct. Yeah. So, um what I what I have up this
is the final that came from Did I get an answer about lumping everything together? Are we lumping everything together or are we doing individual departments? Why are we doing that? Um, what are they? What are Yes.
Right. What are they doing? Um, as far as how they're going to present it at time. We should know. They had said that they're going to do by segments, but that has been presented every year. They like general government is lines one to
261. Does anybody have any questions? So that that means we need to that means they have to know what's on the line. You have to know what's on the line. A little bit of information, right? I suppose the answer would be that they should be watching these meetings, but not everybody has the time. Not everybody has the time and you're going
to get to the meeting. I I think there are a few people that have paid a lot of attention. Apparently 1,100. Um what are these? Dalmatian. No. Um there's a lot more attention I think
paid to the budget this year and and trying to understand what's what's on every line. last year it and other years it's always been there was a balanced budget presenting at at town and I think it was very easily and and maybe quickly
done that you know you run this section if it if nobody has any questions about the section you you quickly move on so therefore when it comes up to general government we've got to break it down section by by section if you want you
know by department by department. It should be that way by department. By department. Yeah. I mean, we can Why did we just do it that way? Why does it have to be all lumped together? I think it was it was something that was
started a few years ago. Yeah. Under under a couple of TAs ago. But um doesn't appear to be working. No, it it's kind of like I think that is part of what what appears to be not transparent. Yeah, it it's quick to go
through. There were there were some times where we had two spreadsheets and people were flipping through two spreadsheets trying to figure it out and then they tried to streamline it and I think that's what evolved into into the process that we've had the last few town
meetings. So we used to get a book a book. Yeah. the budget book. Yeah, I guess that that that's gone to Right. It's again I think in a lot of cases where the budget was being
prepared and changed all the way up. But I think that's a nice question because it's right there. It's all bound. You're not looking all over. You can go to the department. You can focus on what you're interested in and it's not going all over. I think it's a very excellent tool for the
taxpayer. Mhm. Because we really have to remember that because they're out there speaking. Yeah. So to that, can I speak before that? I think Oh, I'm sorry, Kim. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say I I hope that there's a really good solution
because I think that it's unfortunate if we just are seeing them together groupings. I look at the nine categories they came out of with executive session and the grouping of those. Yeah, I would say just like at one time when the board of select gave lot numbers at a town
meeting, most people don't know their own. Those people when they look at those categories um are not going to be saying, "Oh, I know what goes in what." And I think it's very confusing Council on Aging and Cemetering is saying, and people don't
know what that means. I think that we have found that people are very interested in the budget process and seeing exactly what they're voting for. Yeah. So, I hope that we'll have a grand we have some information here because
after that meeting last night with the board of Yeah. that as far as I'm concerned I've spent how many months working on this watching it over and over and for them to say that they're not going to give us the privilege of knowing what they know so that we can
make recommendations to the town. We yeah obviously we can't without uh that sounds to me like we are discounted off the table. So I got together with Joe and some other local towns
people who have experience with finances and taxpayers who are concerned. And we put together that budget which we are calling the alternative budget like alternative facts.
Just turning on editing it. Now what what we talked about was this very issue of departments. Y and one of the reasons we chose the departments as the the um category or or the division is because we really believe that the department
heads should have autonomy in their own department and that they know best where the funds should go. So if the department is allocated X then the head can say okay I want to do this get rid of that keep this buy this add
to. So, we would like you to look at it for for a minute and just give us your feedback because we're really I I think we're really over barrel. We have like not even seven days, right? Yeah. And to be so discounted so publicly is
is frightening for the amount of time that we put in. And then when we see the vote, the people want to know and the people are not getting that information. The people have spoken loud and clear
and the transparency. We have to go into executive session and talk about salaries and oh whoops now here's the budget behind closed doors. Not that's not transparent. It is not and I think um
No, no, no. I I'm just trying to go back and forth because um I want to take yeah just just because what is this the alternative so that's the alternative that from us it's a collaboration of
finan people so there was no violation there's no yeah I know there was certain citizens and certain financials. Okay. So, and I was just taking a look the and I said solid. Now, it's not going to be perfect. We just want you to
know, right? But it's human, right? Well, that's it's it's a start and it's a recommendation. Um because the the other piece that I heard that I hadn't validated yet is the curbside pickup and and trans and then
transfer is kind of like and that went from 780 to 10 in in this one. It basically curbside pickup is gone away just like now in this budget we did keep
the waste and we also tried very very very hard to not go around any kind of salaries so that people keep their job but then again that would be the department head's decision within the budget amount
might be a different approach it's a different approach It's kind of turn. It's It's another another thought process looking at it. It's kind of like Oh, you can see
there peach and yellow. Yeah. There's some there are some other changes on this. There are uh just get the peach. The peach. The peach is the key. Okay. So, we explain the
peach. Yeah. That's kind of There's the changes. There's the changes. They're the alternative fund changes. Yeah. So, um, can you see that? We need to blow it up. You can blow it up. Um, control Z real
quick. Maybe control what? Wrong columns. Oh, which column are you looking for? Uh two. Yeah. Yep. The two. Yeah. Because I filter it on pink. Oh, I'm sorry. No, it's collapsed
at all. So, only the pink ones are showing up. No, no, no. No, that's not No, it's not your fault. We want to see 2024, 2025, and 2026 because that was we looked at the past to see what the
patterns were so that we could make some kind of an intelligent decision about what is going to be moving forward. So in 20 FY25, do we want to see column F because that's what happened after? Yes. But what we want to do is we want to go
to let's just say example um where I can't number four just example what is selecting wages here other auto allowance we noticed was 48 48 then it bopped down to
two two and we said okay let's go to one okay here's the thing this is Veronica Cal that is contractual Jim Kriedler got $6,000 So just know that that is contractual
and it is worked out with the um town administrators. So you can do that but it won't happen. Yeah. All right. That's okay. Well, we're just sharing the information we have because we didn't we don't get to
you don't get to share with us, but we wanted to share with you. We're taking the high road here. Okay. So, right. So, um so if
just trying to shrink this stuff. Okay. So, we got 24 25. Yeah. looking. Now remember, we are not this is not in this and then the department head would say okay yeah like Monica just said can't do
it contractual so she gets but with that what I think I'm hearing from this is you want to take and say cut 3,338 from water selection something like that yes exactly that's exactly
what we're saying yeah Mhm. And then we'll go down to the next one. That's a good way of doing it. I was telling this Yeah. So that that's um um so we have
okay so we all talk about that the general cuts total 1 I'm sorry $195,371 when you look when you get going through all this we don't have to make decisions tonight but we I do want you to look at this. Um, then we found
funding from alternative sources to include I believe that's the trash. Then we have the ARPA we found 100,000 there and then we were heard about the ARPA housing the
found the 100,000 fund. Okay. So, we found that we could reduce it by $814,196. And then we had some conversations about her the Hero Act, which has not been passed yet, I don't
think. And we're not quite sure how many people participate in that. So, we were thinking about maybe we could take that from stabilization this year if it's adopted. I know you don't like to take stuff from stabilization, but if we could just
balance our budget and then really July one really sit down as a committee, work collaboratively not only with the water selectively but with each department head and find out exactly what their needs are and then work through it. So if the Hero Act
passes this year, you want it you're you're saying funded from stabilization. What if we delayed implementation and recommended that it be implemented in FY27 when it had a fuller? No, not that we're trying to delay. Well, let me see.
This is kind of this kind of conversation we have, right? I mean, I still benefit from bets that Excuse me, Don. Don Don, this is Cindy King. This is Cindy King. I'm the real I'm really the strong advocate, as you
probably know, about the Hero Act stuff. I know. This is um this is not a budgetary item. You can't take it from stabilization. This is a tax exemption. It it provides this never ever hits the budget. Even even on the as an article,
it's not hitting the budget. It's a tax exemption. So, it's it's I want to call it almost invisible because you'll never see this again. You'll never vote on it again unless it changes again, which it's been 20 years since it changed. And this is um this comes, you know, pre-tax
levy or as the tax levy is determined. We we already have tax exemptions. All these veterans are already getting there's 119 disabled veterans getting a form of tax exemption right now. This is just increasing it to keep up with inflation really. And
yeah, you'll never this is not something that you're going to transfer money from another fund. It's a tax exemption that comes in pre before anybody ever talks budgets. And this is just the article that needs to authorize. There's two articles, article 18 and 19. And and
they're they're pre pre as the as the levy is determined when it even comes from the state to us when what we're authorized to raise and appropriate or whatever. Um, so it's not something that you're going to move money around and
and and say we're going to get the money for the Hero Act from some other source. No, you're always going to get it as a tax exemption and it's never it's not a budget item. It's not impacted by override votes, none of that. It's a tax exemption authorization. We already do
it. We already do it. We've been doing it for decades, but this is just increasing the authorization. It's on the recap sheet under current year. Um the board of selectmen put that it's very confusing. I wish they hadn't have
done that but they put they've listed it as a recap to say that all right this is going to impact the amount of money that's it's it does impact the amount of money coming to us as far as the authorization and the tax levy for 2026 and 20 you know years in the future. But
it's not a budget item. It shouldn't be listed as a budget item. It absolutely has nothing to do with a budget or over anything. It it has to be accounted for in the in the tax levy so that we cover it. We tax levy, but you'll never see it
on a budget. It's part of the tax levy when it comes in. You get a tax levy. You won't even see it unless you're studying the documents that are coming out of do which doesn't get that or I mean it's available to you but you don't use it
for anything. Yeah, we do. But okay. Um, yeah, we we look at it and make sure you get the final number. You get the final tax levy and what your starting point is to determine what's available to you. But the the the exemption comes be it's already out of the tax levy before you
start moving money around. You can't it's not I can take it from somewhere else. It has to be accounted for. You have to have an account that Oh, no. There's no account, Don. There's no account. It comes from the out. It's taken out of
the tax levy. You're not going to see it on the You don't see it anywhere on the budget. Nowhere. Yeah. We don't see it on the budget. It will Sorry if we Yes.
First off, I support the Hero Act. So, know that, but I don't support funding it until it passes. So, here's the thing that Cindy is correct that it shouldn't. However, it is a line in our omnibus budget. They have built it into the omnibus budget. It's No, they have not.
It is not in the budget. It's in the recap sheet. It's not in the Oh, it's a recap. It's It's a recap item. Yes. But they they've included that in Right. And it was even included in the overap. Everything Everything in the recap has to be accounted for to get the balanced
budget in the bottom kind of like so. Exactly. it be. So everything in your omnibus feeds into the top. Everything else is going to be articles and approved has to be accounted for in the recap. So when you get to the bottom line in the recap sheet, you have a balanced budget. And unlike the prior
HERO act, there's a segment of this one that is not reimbursed now, right? This this whole hero act is not reimbured. The whole increase is not is not funed, right? It's reimbured and the other one has partial $10 as the
exemption. Before it was sort of silent a wash because it was reimbursed. Now the $10 won't be reimbursed. So it does impact the funds available. So somehow we have to figure out the first year because there hasn't been
information yet on how many people or how much money that's going to look like. Yeah. Of of funds needed. Right. It is fully it has been fully disclosed by the assessors. The the numbers are out there and uh I have it I've already done one video on it. I'm doing another
one shortly. But it's it's in fact in the in the supplemental budget that the the House just passed um they fully fully in fact if you look at our cherry sheet and you look at the veterans exemp veterans and senior exemptions line in
the most recent cherry sheet for reimbursements the supplemental budget provided additional monies to fully reimburse our last goround on the exemption. So the state is starting to even and I do it year to year in the law
it's only certain reimbursements but um they've fully reimbursed us for the previous uh goround and it and which is tells me and and it's because of the hero act that the legislature did that for the all the towns that they fully
reimbured exemptions for the previous year. Just to let you know that. So don't think that we're getting the short end of this. Yeah. And those Yeah, those were on C9 on the recap sheet. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so that
idea. All right. Okay, that's okay. So now now we move down to trash. See where we are everybody on the first page. So trash the contract excluding the municipal part. I think it's six or 8,000. I can't remember or nine
remissible do we have to pay no matter what number so 770 oh 040 the bad receipts let's just say we just put our own number on it would be
360,000 based on 28 to 32 each month and the grant which it's a little confusing because we've heard that it can't be reimbursed and I don't think it has to be and then we've heard that it can be reimbured
based on certain factors. So we put it in as we're getting reimbursed. So we have $348,000 the user fees are going to be added at 115 or is it 125? 115. Say
here. Yeah, but I don't know if that's 100%. Because I've heard 120 120 125. I Yeah, it's kind of like that. Nobody's made decision. So here we if we use 115
just as an average. So that gives us 20,000 in user fees. Okay. And I know you're not going to like this, but if we could take out the remainder from stabilization just this year, if we could, I'm using stabilization in the
literal word of stabilizing our budget so that we can move forward, and I mean really work at it because I don't think that it's been really worked. I've talked to some of the department heads and and they've said that they really want to talk to Fincom
because they do have concerns and they want to work it out. They want people to give them input. They want to give input to us and and they want to collaborate rather than be told what to do or or discount it all together. You can't talk at this meeting. So, we would really
like to as they say day one get that started. We'll see. It's kind of like last last two times we say we're gonna add to stabilization. The money's come out has not come back. It hasn't come back. None of it has come back. So it's kind of
like and that's about 350,000. Um so so I would just Okay, that's good to know, Don. So if I could take a look at what that was just to see who didn't pay us back. Well, it the first one was 220,000 for back pay when we signed the
contract and negotiated for the employee. This the last the second one was 136 last year for the trash. Well, okay, let's take the trash because that was that was like a full issue. I mean, let's be honest. I mean, we woke up one day and it was like uh purple bags
period the end. So that right but that that was to balance the budget for last year because there there was about a million dollars that needed to be but that's because they didn't have a plan. They didn't have a plan. I'm saying that we h we get a plan. We don't play that game again. But the figures have changed also the number of people that are
participating. Well, that's a good point. That's a really good point. I I don't think we're getting real accurate figures on you pointed out before. I think you pointed that update on the purple bag purchases. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And again, well, the number has changed. I mean, it just not as big as it was. Well, no. It makes a big difference. It does. And and you have to look at the latest receipts. Are the receipts continuing to decline or is
there Yeah. I mean, we just believe in what we're told. from what we what we have heard that it is declined. I mean there's three supposedly there's 300 supposedly
there are I'm sorry 3,000 people who are taking 3,000 host households but uh the decline so we only significant it says it it was 3100 when we started
so you're saying we only lost 100 homes. No, I think Oh, I think it's I think it's almost like maybe 30%. Yeah, that makes a big difference. Because they go around at least in Timberly Park on Wednesday, they collect
the uh private private um so on Wednesday when you were out, you could see who's privately alert. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't think the trash was ever thought out really thought out. I think
it was just a band-aid because wow, we need the money and here we can grab it. And I and and I think that it carried over to this administration. What's I mean, we heard the same conversation from Irene that we had last year. Same same thing. So, I don't think
they've pounded it out, so to speak, which I think we should do. And maybe the stabilization hasn't come back because nobody's revisited who got the money and what they do what they have planned well to give back to us. They
were there were plans. Um but did anyone stay on them to make sure they worked well it when 200,000 of free cash was moved that was 136 that was supposed to go to stabilization. That was where some
of that money was Oh the free cash got moved out. Yeah. It's kind of like, so that's that's a piece. It's kind of like you can't account for what's going to going to happen. So if we take it down, you're you're going to be down under a million dollars in your stabilization
account. I understand. And that impacts the borrow rate and we're borrowing more because we don't have the other money to And I'm not saying No, I I agree 100%. And I also go to your previous weeks
when you said we should be working on economic development. We should be working on the positive, not the negative. And I don't think that's happening. No, we it it's hard to figure out. We're trying to dig out of a hole. And that's what you're looking at. And well, at one point, if we don't dig this
hole out, we're going to end up with the state coming in and saying, "Okay, ABCDE FG." So, we have to make a decision as a town. And I really believe that this is the board that it's going to have to come from. I really do. I mean that vote the
other day said that people to me it said town is listening. The town is angry. The town wants answers. They want plans. They want economic growth. Right. And and we and to ignore that is the height of negligence in terms of leadership. And I know we have to act quickly
because we're now going to start having mixed messages about no trash. It's going to end July 1st or are we going to continue? That was the game they played last time. Same game. Same game. But that's that's what this So, let's find
out how can we save our trash if that's what the people want. Well, I think the people do want to save the trash. I think they want to get rid of the purple bags. So, we've got to figure out a formula that takes you might have to charge a fee, but there'll be a formula that finally we could get to and get rid
of the purple bags and just have our Just let me tell you one thing about the trash. It was if the former board of selectment presented it to us on a band-aid situation and walked out. So, how did they have a plan to get that
money back? How could they? They left. And over there go ahead first. Um I just want to point out in capital stabilization. Yes, we have a little over 1.2 million in there right now. Not not capital stabilization. I'm sorry. In
stabilization. Yeah. Um in we have about one a little over 1.2 2 million and if we actually did this and act needed to come from somewhere we would still have 9.2% of our operating budget and capital
stabilization. I know the mass municipal association best practices are a minimum of 6%. I know we want 8 to 10. Mhm. It's not something to draw down, but as a taxpayer, I do agree with what Mary Jane is saying and that I would rather
remove the trash from the levy and not have it be part of the tax base anymore, then I would keep that 100. And and I mean, honestly, you don't even have to offer that. You can charge a higher user fee, but I'd like to see it out of the tax base.
and and I would too, but it as we're doing all of this, I would want to see and put the numbers in for what FY27's going to look like, which is relatively easy to pick up the weight up and see where it is. Is is doing this work of
taking stabilization money and the other money going to be sustainable when we get to next year? because a lot of I think it should be you but a lot of what we did in the budget to get where we are is cut pieces that are going to have to come back.
We've cut expenses this year that need to come back in FY27. So the budget's going to grow by some of the lines that we've cut. So I would suggest then considering a higher user fee if stabilization funding is a problem to help reduce the user fee. I think the idea of keeping the payment lower for
residents is is a nice one, but not necessarily a required one. Yeah. And I'm not saying that stabilization isn't the way to go, but if if we're using that to bridge a gap for this year, I don't you you don't want to see it year
after year, we should be building it and adding it to it, not not draining it. Agreed. I think there will help with that. Yes. And how do people opt out of trash if they don't want the feed? Um the board
of health already has a plan for this actually. Um we checked in and they have it's kind of almost we're we're thinking stepping stone kind of a thing of revolving the revolving account provided for as a hybrid program. Um and the
board of health would take that on. There'd be no additional administrative cost for that. Um, and eventually it would be nice to see it in an enterprise fund. So, it would be a purpose without the
bags. It would be just a fee with no bags moving forward. And 27 is sort of the what they're looking ahead towards. But what I'm really happy about is they're looking ahead. They're making a plan. They're gathering real numbers. And this is like a step toward the final plan. We can't rush it. We've learned
that the hard way. So, um, yeah, that's the forward thinking they're they're working on. And it appears through their thoughtfulness that the fee would be less expensive for those that have moved away to the private pay to come back to the municipal side, that they would
still get the service without the bags in 2027 at a lower rate than paying out private pay. So, that would make it better for everybody. So, so anyway, I think I have those bags on
Amazon. I know. I I forgot to buy them this week. Now, my trash is like next week. Now, I got to buy two. What? I obviously don't buy bags at the house. We use the bags. No, I know. But who buys them? You know who buys them?
Yeah. I go into a grocery store. I don't know where I am. I guess I'm curious, how are they saying fee and have it be less than than private pickup because you still have to come up with $780,000 a year if it's based on a fee.
I mean, that's going to be a couple thousand dollars for every household. It's a different program altogether. The board of health is already um speaking to Shaw about it and it's something it's again it's something that would be planned for in the future. Dunstable does it this way. Tinsboro does it this way.
um it's not nearly that expensive. It's a whole different fee structure. I I think the board of health offering input would be helpful because they've been speaking directly to Shaws. Um there are a couple if anybody's online
from the board of health chairman of the board of health regarding the trash contract. Um we going to have a meeting on Friday at 5:30. Um the only thing that I'm able to say is that um we're considering a um
some sort of a fee, but we want to have the input of the public. Um, and yes, it was brought up about the example of how Duniple is working their their their trash contract, but what has been suggested to us that that it doesn't
involve um some money um specifically um but um right now we're still working on the logistics and getting some more information about that. But um I think that um what we are planning is the
board to retake the trash situation and and come up with some sort sort of a fee. It's my understanding from what I've been having conversations with with some people as well. Okay. So it it's a straight fee and that
would cover the total cost of the program and the contract withdraws and but we have to stabilize it for this year because we have and it would be it's not it's not there yet. Yeah. And the fees would be paid to border health. Yes. I would think so.
When we go to the recycling center I believe that we make checks to town or towns. Yes. So, and when you deposit it, it would be into a specific account. I mean, they have a they have a revolving account. They have a revolving account for the
recycle center and well, no, it's not set up on the list. Well, Mr. Chairman, y it's my understanding that it's it's some sort of account. I'm not an accountant and I apologize that I don't remember the right term, but it's it's
it's an it's it's a sort of account that the money would come in to pay for the trash and that money would come out to to Shaw to pay to cover for the for the trash contract. Yeah. Similar to the revolving account that you have for the recycle center,
right? Before that, right? Why do I think it's there? Why do I remember solid waste? That's been a that's been John has brought that up. So, it was established in the bylaws.
Because we never had fees, right? Getting it opened up again and getting it started. Not again opening up what was already planned for, right? If it came cheaper down to a fee, it would people would come back to it. I didn't
come back. I never laugh this morning yesterday morning. I'm ready to leave. Okay. All right. So, you know, look at that and give me give us, you know, when we meet next when are we meeting?
Monday. Have to meet Monday. We will set I'll check with DMC see see if we can get a Zoom meeting and see what time we can we can I'm not sure Monday. Yeah. Can you make a Zoom? No, I can't make a
Zoom. Be away. Not away, but I mean I got something else Monday night. Okay. Yeah, you can. I will probably make it Tuesday. Thank you. Probably.
I'll make it Tuesday. Okay. Okay. Are we going to meet on Monday or Tuesday? Monday. Meeting Monday. And our meeting Monday and then we have our our other meeting on Tuesday. I was going to say you can't we can't meet as a fin because we have the town meeting Tuesday. That's exactly we can meet
early in the day. Pardon? Don't you have a five on Monday? On Monday. Well, could we meet early? See that you're not coming on Monday. Could we meet earlier? Okay. I have a 12:00 noon. No, I was thinking like um
noon 3:30ish. Yeah, that would be better because at Monday I want to hit down the hall. I think it's down the hall. The auction at town hall. Oh. Oh. For the for the
Oh, what time is that? Noon. Okay. So, hello. 3:30. Are you going to buy something? No. I I record the numbers. Oh. Oh. Yeah, I I sit and write numbers. Oh, I didn't understand that. The number is the number guy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, that's
it. No, how long does that take? Um, it depends. Two hours or something. Tops. Yeah. I mean, there's nine properties and and some may not even 2:00. He's got to go to the bathroom. Oh, we're going to let him do that.
So, yeah. Okay. Sorry. I'm just back looking at some of the lines. Okay. And professional technical services. Sounds like that's the Where are the number? I almost have these all memorized. Line 43. It It's like budget
line 43. Yeah. Oh, no. I know. Accounting and professional. Oh, sorry. 143. 43. 43. U Mr. Chairman, just to remind the public that um the board of health is having a meeting on Friday at 5:30
regarding the track contract. If everybody that are in Zoom or in in a meeting can attend, it'll be great. Okay. Okay. Thank you. This as an emergency meeting. So,
yeah, I appreciate it. Can you go to that? I Friday. No, I won't um be at a softball game. Softball day. Friday 5:30. I won't be around. You won't be around any. So, um Sam,
I am interested. But we'll see. That Monday. Okay. 5:30. Let me write it down. Write it on your Zoom and then 2:30 on Monday because we have another meeting at 5:30.
You say 2 or 2:30 done. We can do 2 two or get it done. It's early. What about the auction? What? I'll get somebody to report. What time is the 12? Might be over. It might be over. It's kind of like again the sign properties.
Not sure what the talk real fast. So 2:00 on Monday. On Monday. Okay. Here at the building. Yeah. Room room availability. That's health department.
That's health. Health is Friday at 5:30. Right. And if if there's going to be three there, then I won't show up because we don't want to have a quorum when we it's right. We don't want Yeah. Too close to post. What if we were on Zoom and some people here? Does that
create a quorum? Oh, it does. Um it does. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll we'll be we'll we'll make sure we don't have a phone on what Friday. On Friday. Yeah. Because it go too close to close to Oh, okay.
I'm really too close to it's spring. Yeah, you're you've got some you've got some to do. I don't know where spring came from because I was winner just two days ago. Yeah. So, line line
46 I'm sorry 43 the accounting and pressure services. Yes. To 25,000. Yes. Um reducing to 5,000. Yes. I don't think that is feasible. Okay. Well, that's that's why we're getting
because anything I'm way deeper than 5,000. There's 20,000 in there. Is 20,000 reduced to five? No. No. I think it's reduced by and the answer is still we can't we can't cut that. That's a contract with
the outside service that is actually being our town accountant. Um because We don't have a certified account contract and so this we knew this but not we didn't realize it was that right it's
kind of like and again it it's just making sure if we're looking for it that we don't we don't cut the wrong thing. Correct. And that's that that again is okay. If we go back to my original statement when
we started looking at department this is we want to cut 5,000 from accounting go to the department head let's see cut it and say okay have it have it's your it's your problem now it's kind of like but this in this particular line that's okay
but see I'm new too know the ins and outs yet trust me will happen eventually and this was I don't you you heard me earlier I I love you because you've been very patient with us. Um, we I I don't even have all
the answers right now. I think the thing is in next year maybe if we could find out what's contract, what's not the treasure when the treasurer gave to us the the original worksheet, right?
That had absolutely everything that was coming out of that line. That's what we really want by every Okay. Well, then we should, you know, this this this is this is the standard. This is what we want to see, right, in every department. Well, maybe we should work on a form. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's consistent across
the board. You should be somewhere, right? Well, you do have a form for everything. There's a couple of different pieces. one is how they're generated because you can run
like that BBA report we get generate that so you get the account number and the description and that's what's provided and the and the current rate those those things can be provided into a base sheet and then move from there so there's no guessing and no renaming of
anything because somebody's thought oh yeah they were going to take their own capab what's what's in the BBA and and what's in the accounting system to be to be brought forward in the next year. If a new line is needed, then you you get
it and you we have to develop relationships with these department. I I think that's critical. The communication is like zero. You know, we came in here and we had the sheets and the BBA and all this and then the percentages and we had no idea who, what, where, and why.
Nope. And there's a learning curve that we have that anyone who wants to learn and ask questions needs to ask questions and be involved and and again something we can do as a the finance committee is
very similar to what the board of select do and have a liazison for each department. And so one of us becomes and working one-on-one with the department head so that a department head isn't working with seven finance committee members. Oh, I agree 100%. I
agree with you. But we had started that, hadn't we? Didn't you say Carol was in charge of trash and Dave was in charge of fire and remember that? Oh yeah, I do remember. We talked about it. Oh no, you're back now. When we were doing a when we were doing a sub, right? We
talked about that. We did talk about I don't think it wanted to be the fire we can either I don't remember [Laughter] water conversations you want to back
back started but yeah so that'll be something we can we can take forward okay um but yes I you know just just looking looking at it that way that was going to start out your right this is a different approach but I I think it's
something. I mean, looking at it. You haven't seen this one before. Yeah. Yeah. We've been looking at the same thing for five months. Okay. So, we also had But it's kind of like just one thing. It's kind of like
Yeah. Um and just going in because it's me remembering things too of these No. 63. 63. 63. Did you skip over?
Yeah. A board of Yeah. Right there. Board of assessment. Board of assessors. Of equipment, right? Yeah. Right. That had to do with their um copier, right? No, I I believe that's their software. Oh, that's right. I was
right. That's that's a software one and that's a contract. So again, Another contract. Another contract. Maybe we should be reviewing the contracts, too. Yeah. And and and again, because we don't have anything any lines in here that say software, that's why we're
getting things that go why why is software maintenance? And so that that gets into Yeah. You can't remember everything, right? Can can we can we have um I mean I know the these these account
counting names get assigned to the to the numbers and column. Can we have departments rename some of these accounts to rem because so like change the name from you know line 63 where you just talk about oh that's a contract. Okay,
we'll change it from repair and maintenance equipment to software contract or maintenance contract or software because that's misleading. You would never think that so that by the name you think it's repairing equip item that's a
contract. Yeah. Has a line. Well, it has to be a new line because you still have other things that need to be maintained and repaired. Okay. The machine on which the contract operates may well be just a
single maintenance machine that doesn't get you know doesn't have any contract or anything which is yeah there's other things like your car you needed occasional maintenance on 63 a contract line 63 it
it was a contract contract all right that's why That line's name is misleading. Okay. All right. Next page. But like I mean generally I'm just kind of saying if you if anything that's contracted
could have contracted in the account name. In the account name. Yeah. Right. Then okay you look at it and say oh this is professional services contract. Well then you know it's a contract. Exactly. Very good. Yeah. And then I don't know
if you can rename any of these accounting line items if you're allowed to do that. I I believe you you can. I think it's just a description field in in there, but Excel, but but again, then you lose history. If you change it now and then go back and look at your FY25
numbers, it's going to say the new name. So have the same number though, wouldn't it have the same account? It would have the same number. But then as long as there's the same I mean I'm just thinking let's description. Let's move forward and get better names on the
account or add an account or add a you know parentheses contract. Yeah. Or see if there's a a long description field that they can use to dump off. Kathy, you would she suggested
the parenthesis too. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now remember when you take this into consideration we were looking at 24 25 and so we had a little history so right you were looking you were doing trend trending yeah
yes you have a term for that all right so oh the tax collector yeah the 19000 that the tax collector assistant being demoted financially.
Okay. So that's opera. Yeah. Well, that's another right. Well, but that's part of this whole budget. It is now going to be 100,000 plus this 19 plus plus plus+ because they don't want to talk about there were opera funds to begin
with. I mean no there weren't but we Yeah. So this $100,000 was discussed today at the accounting feels and Katie has talked to the accountant. Yeah. Um that this money
cannot be reallocated like that. Okay. Um and board of selectman the town administrator feels that it can be the concern that we have is that the money will be taken back from the treasury and
then where where are we? If you use it for salaries, then we're cutting hours. I mean, we're violating union contracts. Yeah. Yeah. And I have concerns because it comes from my office even though I'm
not going to be there but the 19,000 dollars won't be there next year that and that and so is this a way to cut back the hours and and put out the position as as we're
putting together a budget. That's why I say I I I have requested that and started working on one of my own where what this year is and and with these changes what it's going to look like in FY27 because that has to be
added back in plus a raise. It's kind of like you can't give a raise on 27. You have to give a raise on the whole. That's a union person too. Yes, that's a union person. again they they just use using the amount right it's kind it
doesn't matter where where it comes from it it's kind of like it's it's like the salary lines that said 30,000 and they were getting more money yeah so I think there's two things on this that the salary is still the salary and so it shouldn't be
changed in the line item still the salary no matter where it comes from it's the recap sheet that it's a revenue source because of our size. As long as they filed the report today, April 30th, it had to be filed today.
They they can only be allocated to another person with that job description is what the accountant Yeah. But what CSS, the consultant in the National League of Cities has said is that as long as it's to um a
pre-existing position and not a new position, it can be reallocated to salaries because of our size. And that that gets into we have to get that straight because our town accountant we had it in there in the
FY24 budget and halfway through the year we did a fall town meeting and took it all out because they said our funds should not be in the budget. So we had it we had the full salaries in there and they had to be removed. So we have to
get we we have to get really the the answer that's going to stand for everybody. It's kind of like because when you you've got an answer that says you can do it. Our accountant that we contract said no you can't. It's kind of like so we're now in direct conflict
with the person that are trying to count signing signing the paper. Be really good to get the accountant person with CSS and to look at the other what's CSS? They're the they're the ARPA consultants that handle ARA funding. It's the Treasury that's starting to pull back money.
Correct. It's the Treasury that pulls and they haven't talked to the Treasury yet, but most of the other if you if you look at other municipalities on how they spent their money, you can see it's like neat little packages. Um, in the guidance does say
that if you didn't have a project that fulfilled its budget, you can reallocate to same similar project or to salaries. and we were we're under the thresholds for different um rules for the ARPA.
So, but I but I agree with you. It shouldn't it shouldn't designate someone as ARPA. None of the other people designated them in their budgets. If you look at budgets all around, people that helped their um
municipal budgets with ARPA, they don't indicate ARPA next to them would increase their amount of their salary in the budget. There also hasn't been a select public meeting where they've even discussed this. So, I'm not sure where they even came up with this
plan because there's no meeting where they said we'll allocate 19,000 of our funding and took a vote on it. They never did that. So, I don't know when they discussed it or decided on this, but it certainly wasn't at a public meeting. So, I would say just it hasn't
even been allocated. And if it was, then Yeah, exactly. It needs to be the followup and completion of of what what was done. Um, well, I don't mind, but
just you're getting the gist of it. Yeah, I'm I'm getting the gist of it. And then we have to I'm looking at the tax collector of the services now and I know where budget has has the reasoning behind what that line. So, we'll see. Um, so I'm looking at
line 90. All right. services. It's I was trying to remember. Yeah. But but again, it gets to that looking at the budget saying, you know, can you can you squeeze 8,000 out?
Correct. Rather than picking a line, right? It's not the line, it's the amount. It's the amount in the department. So, yep. Right. Okay. I can I'm looking at this and thinking it's a perfect pivot table that I can do
that with pivot table. It's what she's saying after my own pivot tables. Pivot tables. It's kind of like if I add two fields that say general government and whatever the department is board of select and finance. I can bring this column out and
say this much in this department. So he's so good at manipulating. Is this fun to you? No, it sounds like it's fun. Show up. Okay. I I still remember how to do things from when I worked. Oh, that's
good. That is good that you do because I forgot. Yeah, they get to the annual physical. Are you doing anything? Yeah. Doing finance committee. Yeah. So you'll see that there's it was based on a lot of different factors. I
mean Yeah. And and then understanding the 19,000 for opera. Yeah. Right. Okay. The opera funds. Yeah. I remember when I first started to come to the board selectment meetings in June of 2020 for to know what my future is going to be. I
remember from that September on every meeting they refused to discuss our not tonight. We're not going to do it. So I I have no idea what do but we do care about our because it is our tax money. It it's not our it is we needed
to use it for things that weren't supporting the operating budget. That's we needed it for projects, not people because it that's a piece of where where we're at in this county. Yeah.
Get an idea. Yep. I get an idea. Oh, 142. 14. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's You're back to Kathy again, right? Yeah, that's that's the one we didn't necessarily get an answer for. Oh. Oh, is that the
constable? That's the constable. Oh, let's talk about that for five seconds. Why is the constable gone? Why can't we know this? Why is it a secret? Very, can you answer that for us? Yeah. So, the thing is I don't know
why they need to have con. I don't care who the conible is. It's right. Right. Right. if the criterion's changed and I don't know what's going on with it and the current conible is no longer eligible say just to throw it out there
we still need to have coniples it doesn't cost the town any money and if no one applies I don't see why we couldn't go to another town pick it on air just for an example because we had a constable who lived in air who was a
conible in air and worked here. He was appointed here also. So the towns would have a principal but you have to be appointed in the town that you live in I believe. Um in order to work in another town. Okay. So there are ways around it.
Um and the idea is that it's going to cost at least $800 more per election. If an election cost between seven and eight, you're talking 10% increase. Mhm. I don't know why we just don't say constantly. It's It should be the
application process. Yes, you are eligible. No, you're not. Right. Mhm. But the position is still available. So, it's not about the pos. It's not about the person. It's not about the person. It's about the position. So, so is that the issue? Is it about the person? And we're not getting that information
because it's personal. Yeah. And I don't know if that's what it is. We don't know. I can guarantee you that it's not about the person. Um, it has more to do about
the how is the town best protected if in fact a a constable has to have a background check. All of our police officers are vetted. They all have had background checks and um we are
certain of um their eligibility. Um we do not with the police officers we are not putting the town in jeopardy and there's a lot that's been written. I'm sure that uh
you know Kim Craraven can talk more about that and it's been something that's been recommended through MMA. So, and it's been talked about since 2020 and there's a public records request on it. So, I'm sure it will appear wherever these public records
requests are appearing. So, you can all look forward to that. But that's the reason. Okay, that helps. Kim, can you add to that? So there's constables that are
still in use um for you know Veronica is saying safety reasons. So we have police in our town. If there's a viable threat I would think that election workers would be reporting that. I've actually posted some of the
classes around elections threats. I'm comfortable with our community having a constable present. There's constables that work doing all kinds of other work around civil process and tenant evictions which
are can be very um you know heated and they are capable of doing that through the court system. So I think that we can be well served with the constable in our community. Joe, can we make a recommendation to keep the constable?
I thought we did that. We did that. We did that. We did do we did do we need to do it again so it's loud and clear? I mean we made Is that it? The board selectment just says okay you're gone and you disappear the next day. Yeah, they Oh, they do. Oh, okay. I
didn't realize that that I mean I know we did make the right kind of democratic process but Oh, sorry. If not it's kind of sad. It's very sad. usually I'm kind of surp I'm kind of surprised that they don't have background position
leaving. I mean, that's an old position. The consuls have been around. She's done it for a long time. Yeah, but I'm surprised that they don't have a background check, too. They do. Of course they do. I was on um I had to have a background. Well, yeah. I have to have a Corey check. Just
a chaperona middle school dance. Exactly. Oh, yeah. Why don't you go before school there forever? So, so that was kind of a weak excuse, but at least it we got an answer. Okay. Okay.
So, PB communication. Yeah. Couple dollars here and there, but you know there it does not. Oh, really? The specific litigation? No, the
legislation is right. So, we should we should get our hands on that. I mean, not that we're going to protect everybody in the world, but we should know. Okay. Land use professional technical services. What do you want? I jumped to
215 because it's 9:01. Okay. All right. I'm with you. Thank you. Okay. Maybe you should have gone at 208 first. Oh, 208. Jerry wants 208's wages.
Oh, 58 51 51 then I go down part time. I think they went down full time, right? Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah. And they were I thought they
reduced that in. Okay. I'm not even sure if it's like part-time or whether it's like even less than part-time. I forgot I think it was 19 hours something. I thought it was like and not even fractional contract somebody else. Oh
yes, I think you're right. I get Yes. I'd rather say somebody part time than contract out personally. That's just my I'm not a third party contract like a just bring them in for a minute go. Yeah. just kind of like not and not
you know hire anybody but find somebody so they would not get benefits is that it's not a benefit would not be a benefit position okay land use professional technical services so this so again land use would get our decision
and then they recommend recommendation and then they could come back and say yes well we're going to give it to something else you don't know what you're talking about then do what I Police
energy. Yeah. Well, no, there's 25,000 28 31 31. Oh, well, they got the new um and they the new solar solar. It should save they should be
making them. So yeah, let's see what maybe we maybe they can um take the money that they save from those solar panels and pay for the this building or something. Were the solar panels paid by a grant
from somewhere else? No, no, they it was contracted out. We hired the leased panels and so the company put them up. All the construction was all on there. So they're leased. Yeah. Not not least. It's kind of like it was sort of we we loan them the land. They built the
function and they get credit. They they get the credit. So they don't cost us. They do not cost us and they won't cost us. It's a 10year contract for 10 years. But then what happens at the end of 10 years? Are we getting used to with the So the
energy? We are getting that's I don't know where they're getting any money. Um, I'm sure it it's if there's anything it's it it's probably built bigger than what we'll consume at the police station. So, they're selling it. It's extra energy to
sell use. Yeah. I don't think you get money back. I think you just get credit. You just usually get credits. Credit. Yeah. Yeah. You don't get money. My I just saw my daughter's bill. She just get like a credit. I said, "Oh, that's my soul
personally." What? We get money in the bank. Do you own gas outright? Yeah. Oh, okay. I think that's the difference between So, yeah. So, I in fact, the electric company, we owe them at the
present moment I'm sitting here, but you'll get it back. But I will shortly I will be going from um red to black as far as my is concerned and that will carry me well into February when it starts to go red
again. So I don't give them any money. I do pay a mortgage and that's where the money is buried. Yeah. And I was just looking at the BDA on the on the police energy. Yeah. So I just, you know, there is there was a cost up front and that comes out of my uh part of my their
mortgage fee is cemetery says they already did it. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That money was left over from Oh, leftover money. Yeah, that was leftover money that we're transferring in. Got it. Okay. Yeah.
Leftover. Okay. Did we pay cemeter? Maybe that's why it's left over. We don't pay them. No, they they ended up doing the work for the stairs. Cemetery didn't. That was nice. So,
um, yeah, we wanted to spend a little bit more time on police and fire overtime just to get a feeling for because they have PDMs and then they have details. They have over we may need more a deeper dive. Okay. Yeah, they they get all kinds of
rates depending on what they're doing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And again, looking at the BBA, you can see where the over time are going to. Um Yeah. Overtime is is at the end
of March was already at 96% for the year. There's only $5,000 in police. 50 in the box. Fire fire was at 182% used on over right that was red flags. Yeah. Yeah.
Now I know you can't produce predict fires and things like that but you just wonder how the scheduling and who's doing it and what criteria who's available who's not. They they have a lot of software. I think uh this is Veronica Cal. The overtime in fire this
year, the overage is because of the amount of time that Townsen has spent supporting other towns, especially in the uh EMS area. It also is affected by the distance
um that the uh they have to go because of the closure of Nishoba and the time that is involved in getting there. And that's all I'll say on that. But that is the reason for the fire overage this year.
Okay. So, but again, it's not a line item. Mr. Chair, would it be possible for the fin to ask um what specifically has been done to recoup funds from pepper from the ambulance closing? Even
if it's the specific ambulance, they have an offset for their ambulance. the same as we did in the um I understand the chief um has received it. It's allocated to out the ambulances which is great. Um that helps defer our costs in
the future. And then if PEL's not running their ambulance, what are they going to do with it? How are they going to reimburse us? What is that process? And then the second most important part is the 10 million that was allocated recently that the director of DPH is
working on the language for the grant allocation for the additional funds for the communities affected by the closure which in my um understanding of it will have more flexibility to pay for um
operations and staffing and stuff just limited to the outing. So if there's any way that can find that, I would think that will help the planning process moving forward because given that it will be hitting in the FY26,
hopefully that will alleviate some of the you know the fire department pressures around that and hopefully there's a target for recapturing some of that too. Yeah. Yeah. Community members, we should know how that is, you know, and obviously we would want people to
accommodate our needs too. So it's not upset about the needs. Um trying to manage the the health and wellness of our neighbors is important too, but being our taxpayers is just as much. Yeah. Yeah. It's we can ask and see see where there
is explanations. We should we should definitely ask. We don't Yeah, we don't ask. Yeah. Okay. The one the tree
one is number one. I don't know where I mean I remember that and I find it 65 landfill engineering professional services
landfill engineering. Okay. That's item number um 642. 642. Okay. Because we skipped over police basically. Okay. Right. Because we need a deeper dive. Okay. And this was um landfill
engineering and professional services. I think that's another contract. Oh, is that a contract? That's a contract. Is there a party contract? I believe so. Yeah. For the closing and monitoring of the old link. Oh, okay.
And that was reduced. Because he's got a good memory because I remember when he said that he says, "Oh, yeah, that's right. We said we discussed that before about that was a contract for monitoring the landfill." Yeah. Right. And and I think they even reduced
it from Yeah. Yeah. Pinch health insurance. Now that that's a whole other ball of asset, right? Yes. That I mean we can't even address that this year. But I do think that as FINCOM, we should be really on top of that if no one else is joining the
insurance. Yes. Um recurring. We all know. Well, they should be going out bidding out insurance. Well, on the next contract, there should be a larger employee contribution, too.
That's another way you Oh, there's another Oh, there's another avenue. That's true. I mean, no one wants to hear that, but but that's a negotiation that has to be negotiated in a contract, right? That's where I'm I'm really thinking I loved your idea of having a FinCom person there. But I really think
we have to go next level because we have some outrageous things going on in the contract. And not outrageous, but severely beneficial on the part of the employee. Not that they don't need it, but we're handcuffed to freeze them or reduce them when we're in a crisis. And
that's where I think the key negotiations because if we could say for some of the clo I mean, and it's not a lot, but everybody's got a gold allowance of [Music] 800 what 600. It depends on the
between 600. I think one was a lot of conversations. Yeah, I know the school's working on looking into an opt out incentive for health insurance. Maybe that's something the town could should consider. And since it's such a high
cost, it would cost a little less to offer some sort of a right a stipen for someone who's not at a lower rate where they could maybe get on their spouses if that's an option or something like that. That's something for a future. That's true. If
you if your husband has health insurance because I did work for a company where I opted out of and I got a increase in pay. They gave me a little bit more money, you know, because I didn't take the insurance. So, I was actually saving
them. I had the same I had the same thing at I mean, it wasn't much. I think I got 250 bucks or something like that. No, it wasn't much, but it was something. It was something something until I had one too like that. It's kind of like but that's got to be I mean
that's contract negotiation. That's kind right that level municipal employee you collective bargaining. I mean that didn't that didn't exist until the 1960s. That's right. Is that true? Yeah. FDR
said government employees should never should not be doing collective bargaining. That was the one place he didn't feel unions had any place. I wonder who changed that rule. Kennedy. John. Yep. Oh well. I can't. So I think that we
have to do a deeper dive. It's been a great year, but you don't know everything yet. What? You don't know? No. No. I'm saying it's it's a little late to do a deeper dive for No, no, no. We can't. No, I'm not saying for now. No, no, no. What's done is done. But for
for the next next year, I really should start early. We're gonna do I really do. We're gonna do I'd like to send I'd like to have that letter sent out much earlier and then start going to the start going to see them. Yeah. You know,
because u couple of times we wanted somebody to come in and I don't know, it just get squashed in the process. couple of times. Well, I know. I'm just being nice. Yep. It It happened. It did
happen and we all know it was Okay. Okay. And I appreciate the work that was done to produce this. I know budget budget is not It's not fun at all. It's like get me
out of right now. Yep. So, I I do appreciate the work. Um, we'll try formatting it a a little bit and then cleaning it up. I mean, at least it's something because if we're not going to have information, what are we going to sit up there and say
people what they want? No, we got to get back. This is trying to trying to do it without cutting without cutting salaries because we're sensitive to people who need and we're
not being authoritative to say to the department head, you must do this and here's your budget. figure it out. Yeah. And the the other part if we haven't necessarily been in here is taking a look at the original budget budget and see what already
Don this is Veronica Cal. I just have to put a word in here. Nelson did talk to every department head and that is how the cuts to expenses happened. It is because and
each of the department heads made their own choices in the cuts to um the expenses. So I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. Okay. Um what was presented here would No, go ahead. Yeah,
with with the lines that were highlighted in peach that we've been displaying and looking at, some of the lines that were cut were expenses and I know they've already been cut. So that's why I was making the comment that we don't we we have to look at the cuts
that have already been made and if we're suggesting this and again I think it it comes back to suggesting that suggesting it and taking it away from the line that maybe have been produced but um taking it so
that it it's more can you can you find this amount in in your budget in in addition. It's kind of like and that's that's a piece again looking at some of the lines like we said the contract for the the town accountant um and I know it
had been marking that somebody else is cirrus or something that um that line was suggested as a cut highlighted in peach but we know it's already been adjusted and and contract the contract has has been written for the amount of
work that Katie feels is going to be needed by them this year and that was gone over in a selectman's meeting mid-March or so. Um, so these additional uh cuts that you guys are making to
departments with the peach colors, you're making without the approval of the department heads. Correct. Correct. We we said we would take Okay. I just want to make sure that that's clear. Thank you. Yeah, Donna, I'm sorry I couldn't hear
you with um the select board person talking over you. Could you could you repeat what you were saying? I'm sorry. Um I was saying that um there have been cuts from the original FY26 budget. There have been cuts to the expense lines. So I don't want to go back and
say these are the lines that that we're suggesting being cut. And and again that's where I was talking about going in with the pivot table creating you had an amount for the department. So by doing that and coming up we can say can you go back we go back to the department
heads and say look at these can can you come up with something that matches the numbers we're suggesting um and and see if they have it because cutting lines that may have already been cut isn't it is already tough on them because they've already gone in and looked at it
and tried to shave it. in the second budget that was supposed to have been written really nice. Well, yeah. Yeah. So, on on that, Mr. Chair, what I'm wondering is that the question to you was
from last night when you found out kind of what was being produced and some of the members saw nine line items come out of an executive session. Yeah. Not talked about publicly. My guess is that the department heads
did not know or have input on those cuts that were being made because it wasn't public with seven executive sessions. So at some point they've known that. So I would like to say to the fincom, I appreciate that you took a second dive
in looking at a budget in a way that gave the department head some autonomy and doing it at a public meeting to talk about it and give people an opportunity to weigh in. I think is a very transparent and thoughtful way of going about it rather than doing it in a
closed session, right? and coming out thinking that our community can knowledgeably vote yes or no on a budget that my guess is that the department has had no opportunity to weigh in on. So I um I could I speak
again? I just need to speak for Nelson. He isn't here but he has spoken to all the department heads that he could speak to. There are union considerations if there is if if someone is a union head
or steward or whatever in charge of a department and there is someone in that department that needs um that in any event it is all union related. It is to keep the town out of legal jeopardy with
unions and Nelson has had the discussions um that we were able to vote on the um budget lines and Don, you have the budget that Nelson provided to you as a
result, the line item budget. I haven't seen you project it tonight. I've seen you project Mary Jane's budget, but not that one. So, it's a little um it was it was up here. It's kind of But you didn't
go through it the way you went through the one with the peach. Correct. Or did I miss something completely? We did not because it doesn't have all the details in it. It's kind of like I still have to prepare that in such a way that we can look at it and find the differences.
those salary lines are all um zeroed with a total salary because you we are not able until after town meeting to talk to the unions. So So if I don't
have any information that I can compare and bring up then I got nothing that we can really review. I mean what you can review is the difference between the salary lines with the um if the override
had passed and the salary lines total salary lines that um Nelson added in um the total salary lines you can compare those. So if you go down to
um accounting for example I we didn't consider salaries. Mr. Chairman I may I comment your meeting for a minute because it's unfortunate that for whatever reason interestingly enough we are not allowed
to speak at the select board meeting but the select board meeting does like to talk to us at your meetings. So I am going to take a liberty here. So I appreciate it Mr. Chair. Um, what I find extremely interesting is that you and your team are looking as
thoughtfully as you possibly can at what options might be available to save salaries and to be transparent to the department heads about their ability to manage their departments. But it does appear that the select board
went into executive session and determined for the department heads where they thought that they should cut within their departments and not giving them the ability to maybe think of what areas they might want to cut into their
department. So I think there is a striking difference between the approach and I can see that difference and in looking at other municipal budgets and taking a lot of time today to try to see others that have made cuts. I haven't
seen the occasion to go into executive session to talk about things and come out with a trash cut that wasn't talked about. The trash cut was discussed at the 416 meeting
when the override was presented. Anybody who thought that trash would remain at without the override in the omnibus budget somehow missed something. to um
insinuate that there was nothing done with department heads and to totally disconider the fact that we are working with collective bargaining agreements is
just absolutely in error that's all I can say to that I'm not dismissing it I'm just saying the process is different and to be clear is the responsibility of the select board to present a budget to the town's people that is a balanced
budget that shows where we're at. And there was never once a budget that came forward with funding available that did not include a two and a half override to show the town's people and the voters what would be included and what would not be included without an override.
That's step one to show that and then anything else that was needed. So, I look forward, Kim, to the the um school committee budget that comes in for FY25 that has no more than a
2.5% increase over what it it was this year. I look forward to that. If as much effort is put into doing that with the department that is the biggest part of our town budget, I will be thrilled. But
we have done the very best that we can in a very difficult situation that was brought forward. I'm here as a resident. Yeah. So, wow. Sorry. It kind of fits.
Yep. Exactly. Thank you, whoever you are. I I do see the the line that we're looking at is we have the treasurer. Um and then the the collector of salaries. We don't have the individual pieces, but
there's a total in the overwrite showing the overright. What we went through with the peach is um yeah, we didn't want to cut salaries. We didn't have to deal with that because we were told that one of our boards was unqualified. A TA didn't want to do it. So, we had one
person, right? It's kind of like it right and and and we were told last night at the board of slew meeting that we were not going to be able to share what they know. So, we had to do something for the people. It's about the people, not about the board. It's about
the people and that's what we represent. Oh, I'm getting upset. Okay. Breathe. Take a breath. Breathe. just kind of like we're um but again just getting getting it and having three and a half hours to try to prepare wasn't enough
time to to go in and identify all these lines but I can certainly take the time now and um work towards it and we can take a look and we'll look at look at both um and again your your effort was not to not to
cut into into the salaries I was going to like and make and and make recommendations including going into the stabilization fun. And I can tell you this one thing. If I was going to look at the if we excuse me, we we're going to look at the sales. It would be across the board.
Everybody gets the same cut. It wouldn't be, oh, I like you, so you're going to have this. Oh, I don't like you, so you got to go. It would be across the board. So that would be a number that you could pick whatever the percentage is. That's a math problem.
Yep. Got a formula. Okay. So, we are we are at 9:29, which is what we've been doing for our three-hour limit. Um, so I will I will and I all the time that everybody has spent and thank you for
letting us present what we thought was an effort in behalf of the council. There's been a lot of effort. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you for all your hard work. It was hard. I know it was hard working.
I would have been drinking wine. Wine. We had to move forward. I'm much better than to make a motion that we at 9:29. We had a motion to adjourn in a second. At 9:29
Church a Walker. Yes. Uh, whatever. Yes. I'm on his Yeah.