Okay, this the towns and finance committee and I'd like to call the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m. Um, I know we are all in the room, but to keep constant with consistent with what we've done, can we have our roll
call attendance, please? Jer is here. Sam G. Hi. Oh, Mary Jane Churchville here. Dave Walker here. and chair offices for present. My name is here at 6. We have a quorum. We are ready to continue. Um
this meeting is being recorded um for playback on channel 9 and it will be available on the YouTube channel. Um I see just one visitor in the room who's a invited guest for the agenda. Um I don't
see anybody on on um the Zoom. So, at this point, uh there's no additional people recording um the meeting. So, we're good with that. Um at this point, I um this was
just a short meeting to address um an item for the FY26 budget. Um and and have a meeting with the town clerk. So, I have nothing to add to the agenda.
Um and that being said, we'll go into the work session which is the town clerk um has updated the election budget changes. We did record that in December last week. Um
the change from constable to um hiring hiring the police for each of the elections. Did you want to come up and speak? Well, I just I can I
can 162 changes. I'll have to go back and make sure it didn't come up. So you want and then we'll share share those. I I don't know why it's not sharing my screen. I have to share
individual files. Um and today's I think toward we do that we get the um maybe is that that
one muted Okay, thank you. I just want to make sure we're getting volume. Um, you're not hearing us. That's not unmuted. Yeah, yours should be muted. Unmuted? Yeah, that I just looked and it it
looked like it was unmuted. Okay. Maybe the volume turned down because it can be muted. It could be unmuted and the volume may not be right. Yeah. Is that is that this? Um, that is that. But I wanted to that that I wanted to do
Kathy's first. So, you wouldn't necessarily hear yourselves here. No, we won't hear it. But when I when I unmuted my did the echo. It's kind of like seems
like it's working. Okay. So I have um the department 162 the um for the elections budget up and you had provided the change um on the professional services
line right I had to um add $800 to that line. We only have one election um in 20 fc year 26. Um but previously we had had constables.
We had no longer going to have constables after the 1st of July. So instead of paying $210 for a full day for a constable, the last time at the presidential election, we had to pay a police officer $1,040.
So, I increased it by $800. Okay. So, for each election, it's going to be to have police presence there, it's we're going to have to um budget a little over $1,000 per
election. Okay. Yeah. And so, an increase of $800, which is some people behind. Why do we change the selectment, change the policy? They have no idea. They wouldn't say they wouldn't say we asked
last week and they would say and we were in a budget crisis and and and they want to do this. Yeah. And like I say, that's that's my assistant's weekly salary almost her whole salary because the con she's been doing this for a while. Yeah.
And before that we had um Bill Martin was there and John Whitmore was there and Roger Bian was there. question. Our constable is the one who posts all our meetings, everything. Does that mean we're going to have a police detail post our meetings? It's I don't
what I was told they would do it on their um regular rounds. So, it would be incorporated into their pay. Whether they get extra for doing that, I don't know. Right now it costs I think it's like
$3145 or something like that to have um the constable post in five places around town. So basically like $32. Yeah. Yeah. Around and that's to post five places. Yeah. And that's okay if the cops do it on
their regular rounds. But if you have them do it outside, you're talking we count a lot on You're talking a lot of money, right? Exactly. And we don't have any money, right? And I don't believe it
costs the town anything to have a constable um to appoint constables. I don't think there's any cost there because they have to provide their own bond, right? So please Well, that doesn't make sense. I don't think it makes sense either. So,
I just wanted to come and explain where we are at. We always have a police presence at the presidential plus the constable um just for the safety and they're paring outside as well as inside, right? But the parole outside is
basically part of their regular patrol or is that extra? For the presidential, it's extra because we have them all day. But for regular elections, they might ride through just to make sure everything is good. But that doesn't cost anything. That's just on the
regularities. So we're required to have either a constable or a police officer at the election. But to make the change and the slant just do that or doesn't have to go to the people, you know, it's a policy. So they can just conip around since the
beginning of time. But does the conible have some duties or that the police don't? Somebody told me that there was something that the conible does that the police really aren't supposed to be
doing or something serving papers maybe. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. Well, yeah. Because if you if you own property, say, and you want to um foreclose or something. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't think of the word
you get someone you have to serve them pay and know from what I understand they have to go through the sheriff's department and I could be wrong maybe the I think that's typically done by the sheriff whatever else it's just the added cost of this change yeah doesn't
make I don't understand in a budget crisis how this can even be discussed right much less passed and put into some kind of policy and we're lucky this year because we only have as far as we know there's only one election. Well, for
instance, last year we had six elections that would been over $6,000. Yeah. 1,200 and and they can't give us they can't Well, she would give us the consideration of telling the people why they did it. Isn't that a bit
authoritarian? And this is what And good word for it. There were other words, but that's a good one. I mean, it's okay to ask for an override when you're being fiscally responsible, right? But when this is basically fiscally
irresponsible and you have no right to ask the taxpayers owning up more money when you're unless there's an explanation that they won't give it, but they won't discuss it. They wouldn't discuss it. So, wow. So, and but they want us to put money up based on what they have decided.
Wow. Town's wake up. Come and vote. Yeah. Um but it seems wanted to continue on your on the number um your elections. FY27 is going to be three. So because
FY27 will be the fall of 26. So yeah. So we'll have a primary, the general, and April. Yeah. And that's if there's no or anything like that. Special elections. So it's at least three. But if there's an override Yeah. And then
you're talking 3,000 over 3,000 versus a little over six. So 100. Let me ask a question. And and I'm just curious. The So before it was 37, now we're now because of this change, you need to raise it to 45. What was the 37 for just to understand? Um so
the 37 is for professional services, which is the printing of the ballots. turning it down. Um the they program the um the USB drives to go into the voting machines. Okay. And that type of thing that Okay. Well, I was just curious what
if the town specifically votes that line item just saying no, it has to pay at $3,700. Does that force them to go back to a constable if they don't authorize the extra $800? Of course, it's an unattended election and I don't think you want that. And I don't think we're
allowed to have that, right? No, I I Yeah, I wouldn't argue that, but I'm just saying, right? I see what you're saying. How are we, you know, you mean the people that I would say, right? What if the people vote and say, "No, we want the cost." You can do that. When the whole budget is presented, you can make
recommendations on changes on lines in the budget. You have to have all your subtotals all ready and and updated. Can we do that as the fin con? Um, we're an advisory board, right? We we Yeah. Can't we advise that? I mean, that's what we
can do. We can be advised a lot of things, but does any going to listen? Well, I don't care if the selectman listen. I I care if the people listen. I think the people will listen. Listen. I think we have an obligation to do that. And and again, this gets to this is for
one one year in our 26. if we're then going to take it as we said there's three elections without anything it three guaranteed elections in FY27 budget two in the FY28 and three in the FY29
um and that's that's why it's it's kind of like so F28 FY FY29 though because it's in the fall right you have one in the spring the pres so you have you have two because we have the March presidential
which is in the year before in the year before in April. That's why the two the FY28 and FY29 is the the primary in in the falls the September primary it's the same thing and then the annual
they're both in 27 29 they would be in the FY29 even though they fall in 28 because FY29 start 27 will have the general Yeah. I always get messed up between the calendar and that, but I know it it's
just one of those things. It's kind of like uh because we also have to watch that other account that we're paying for elections from to make sure that there's money in there, right? And right now my for this year, I have no money left in
my elections to speak of. I mean, I have a few dollars that can cover some things, but I just received the bill for the programming And um that is coming out of the special article. Right. So and so won't the
uh mailing it the salaries. Okay. Yep. Okay. So that's going to and I don't know what the balance in that account is but I think we won't need it for 14,000 at this point. Yeah. After the bill I just submitted today. I think that's
what it was. Um, anybody have a question on that? No, I'd like to make a motion that FINCOM does not recommend this change even though we don't have anything any I I think we should tell the people that we don't agree with
this. I agree with you. Can we make a motion? I'm going to I just I'll second it. Don't select them and get rid of the console. Constable is a the town officer from the beginning of time. Can't remember when there wasn't a
conible. I remember you've always said and they as far back as you want to go arrogance answering our question when we ask why. Maybe they have a good reason but the arrogance of not answering you know that's
that tells you what they think of the people. Hey Jerry, you second my motion? I did. Okay. So, okay. So, I'm gonna read it back so you could tell me because motion was made to recommend to
keep the conible place for police at the elections. Yes. Then I will have we had a second. Yeah, I got that. Yeah. I just keep comfortable for
it's kind of like but but again the for presidential in that's a whole different ball game. Um is that is that both the primary and the fall the November election? No, it's usually just just the actual just the
actual I think we had when the first amendment auditors had come to town meeting and then we had an election shortly after for an override I believe. Okay. We had a police officer there because we weren't sure how that was going to go and it was fine, right? Yep.
So, but it's nice to have that presence and I mean uh Chief Sartell is very good. All we have to do is call him or he'll even have them patrol through and that that's great. But to have somebody there, I checked with him just to be
sure. to have somebody there from 7 in the morning till 8:00 at night. It's a detail and we have to pay, right? And and rightfully so. I mean, I understand that, but it's it's just frustrating when we're in such a tight budget trying
to trying to watch every every penny and keep keep it. Um, exactly. This is not the time to make that change, right? I mean, unless there's some we don't know about, right? something we we haven't been informed of. Yeah, but they
told us they weren't going to tell us. So that that we can only go wrong what we know. Yeah. And correct. Oh, are we going to take a vote? I I was going to say we had a motion and a second. Any any additional discussion? So if we're going to vote on this in the
affirmative, it it is to recommend that uh we stay with the constable as the monitor for elections going forward to help keep the cost of elections under control. Jarus, yes. Sam Grant, I
charge. Yes. David Walker, yes. Carol is yes. Don, yes. Unanimous. All right. Then recommendation. See if we can keep Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, I
thought it was worth explaining. Yeah, appreciate the explanation. And take care of yourself, too. Yeah, you too. Thanks. So, let me ask you this question because we had the snowstorm the other day and they did plow the streets. I saw when I
got back in town. Yeah, I shouldn't applaud the streets because you know what? They made these big balls of IP packs at the end of my driveway of chop. But anyway, um so that cost some money. It did. So
now that has to be however much that sand and ice. So that's going to increase our That's right. this year's budget. It will. Yep. I I suspect. Yeah. So, are we going to be having a shortfall
for this year's budget? I mean, well, we already run it at a deficit, but I I think Well, I know I in the recap sheet, it was I think 350 last or 385 something, but I I I understand because that's a must pay bill
eventually, right? But we just added more. We just added another, right, that we don't have. That's mother nature for you. Well, yes. Yeah, in May and we've had May storms. I guess the question we is I know in
before the idea was that okay we covered that from we year to year we covered that from free cash right with the change with the change they committed 200 200,000 from free cash to the schools for next year 1,000 to the fire
truck. Do we is there any free cash left to cover the shortfall? I think the answer would be no at this point. weren't articles planned that were going to use free cash. So, we'd have to see if what the plan and intention is for that is as a minimum was the one-third
of the assessor's um money for the for Patriot the assessing. They they do an article every year to allocate $8,000 into an account so that when we get to the year and we have to pay $25,000 for the reassessment that it's in there but
it's level. It would would have been level. If that money isn't there now, we're going to be short when we get to what assessment is um the the has to have a full assessment um done every 3 years. Oh, okay. Yeah, the regular
assessment. The regular assessment is kind of like and we know I mean I know well that CPA tax does that come into effect does that come into effect July 1st and is there a cost in implementing that? Do we know if there's
a cost in implementing that? Yes. Yes. Yes, we know it's going to go into effect and yes, there is a cost. So, it's going to be on our tax bill. Well, yeah, it's will be on your tax bill. So, we're paying 1% for um 1% of the tax. So, you you take your
tax bill, take 100,000 off, and 1% of that remaining number, whatever it is. So your tax is going to 3 and a half%. Really? No. There are exemptions that you can apply for. I know. But if you don't qualify for you don't qualify. Yeah. But
your taxes are going up. Three and a half%. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. But that was voted that was a vote. No, I know. I know that happened. So we um because people didn't understand what it was because people were you know Yeah. I haven't seen the
warrant for the town meeting, but I would believe that there needs to be a CPA article on either the special or the annual town meeting to set up and implement um the CPA. Can it be revoked?
Yes, after 5 years, but it has to be 5 years. I looked What is the CPA? I remember it, but barely. It's the Conservation Preservation Act and they sold it as this thing that they're going to do all they got to get all this matching funds from the state and they're going to do all these wonderful
things with those matching funds. Well, so my next door neighbor cuz he's he goes on the state website and looks and I kind of follow him. He goes, "Well, when it first instituted, the state matched it pretty well, but he says over
the years, the state has declined on the matching like the schools." Like the schools. So he says, "Why would you be such a foolish?" So you're not going to get in 10%. So whatever you collect, there's the three categories I forget. Housing,
recreation, and historic buildings. So a minimum 10% has to go to each. So now you So now the 70% but you have to but you have to have a vote to implement. Yeah. And what if what if we what if we vote that down? You can't vote it down.
No. No. The individual individual projects and say okay because if they're if someone proposes a project we have to have a vote on it. And we have a committee that controls that probably but but 10% of the dollars has to go to each of the three categories. Yeah. There's a minimum percentage that goes
to each of the categories within within that's available in this will it be presented to the people to vote or the committee that should be it should be something from the committee they put it together and put their recommendations and the town votes on it. So they could say no they could it yes they could say
no I mean I and if we say if the town says no can that money get transferred like other transfers that we do? No, no, they the CPA money is going to So, it'll just sit there. It'll just sit there for for some other purpose. Yeah. And and if
we vote to dissolve it in 5 years, can we reclaim that money that sits there? I don't know. Good question. That's a good question. When my my neighbor comes back from Poland, I'm going to tell him to go research that cuz I mean that's that
might be there that's there's a little light at the end of the tunnel. If we don't spend this money in 5 years, we can claw it back. would I don't know that you'd be able to call it back. I don't reverse it back. I'm not not necessarily saying call it back to the people to but but claw it back to the
town and say okay I'm not sure because the CPA we got to find out I I did go online because he did tell me he says oh we can resend it. He says he saw he thought it was a year and I went online and I researched it and I
went back and I said no I found out it's 5 years and I gave him the website but that's a good point was do we keep money if say we do rescend it of course when you go online it says no nobody in the whole phone has ever
well we could be first we could be first so that's a good question um let's see if I can because I know I I do remember they said before any money can be spent the town has to vote on the project the project. So, so the town votes down
every project, right? And then at the end of the 5 years or simply say, "Okay, let's get rid of this." What happens to that money? That's I mean, if we can if we can claw it back to the town, they the town's portion of it, the rest of it would have to go back
to the state if you didn't use it. And the state may have rules that if you don't use it in so long, it's kind of I don't know. Sure. Talking about the town's portion, right? Yeah. I'm going to tell them not today. Well, cuz I'm kind of figuring the state won't give
you the money anyway. Well, they won't give you as much as what they s the people. What happens if you vote for the project, the tax goes 10 10 and the state doesn't give us any money like they do with the schools? They are we
stuck with the project? Oh, no. I I think I think from what I understand from reading the CPA online it there has to be a separate account. The money goes in but I think the money from the state goes in and the money that's collected from the tax revenue. But I'm saying if
the money from the state doesn't come Oh well I don't think the money can get spent until it's there. So you so at the time that they would propose a project if they say oh this project's going to cost a million dollars. Well guess what? You only got $750,000 in there. But but that's my point. If the town says yes,
we want the project and it's a million dollars and we only have $750, do we have to go through with the project and and come up with the money? Oh, no. I wouldn't think so because just like the recreation money where the where they spent the 125 on
the fitness program, it's sitting in the barn. They need an extra money. How come the recreation commission isn't doing a fundraiser to get that money? I'm trying to the wrong person. Trust me. I was going to say CPA when you know
it's kind of like an offshoot of where we where we are. CPA will will be coming in. Um again, I believe it has to wait till the we have to set up all the all the bylaws for it. Um and that's why I
say I expect it on a warrant in in either the special or the annual. Are we going to create for the CTA? I do believe. And so what if we decline to do that? Um does the CPA then go away? No. No. No. It hasn't been established
though. It's only been voted on. It it right that to implement the 1%. Now you have to set up all the bylaws of who's on the committee, how many the committee is going to be. Um what the rules are. That's what I'm saying. That's going to be on a warrant article on annual town
meeting. So you have but not this town meeting coming up. There's going to be a committee. There's a CPA committee coming up maybe one I'm my understanding is if you want to leave the charge if if you want to implement it and and get it
running and start collecting in July you're going to need a um policy bylaws right and that's that's that's kind of what I'm ask let's say the town votes down and says no we're not going to establish this does the
does the 1% % not get implemented because they because we haven't set up the infrastructure to do that. Why they vote to have it in the first place? They would because it was it was voted in. I I would suspect that they would go back and rework the um bylaw and present it
again and see see if it would be acceptable after that. So they they'd get the input and um they they did present it once to the board of selectment and I believe we were in the room. If it wasn't
everybody I was in the room and they presented to the board of selectment and it wasn't the whole committee. I I was in the room when the CPA presented the bylaw. So, they're working with the lawyers and they're working to present it and my understanding is it would be
availed at this town meeting because my thing is it was so long ago that it was voted on that nobody ever remembers that they voted for this. posture. And so when they not only get their new tax bill if the override goes and then they
get a separate line separate line there'll be a lot of Y. Okay. So that's we went from well I I guess I I'd like to know what will happen if the
town refuses to implement these bylaws and stuff. Does that mean the tax doesn't occur? We have to we have to you can talk to someone who knows something and not account like a real estate or a real authentic. We have to look look at
it and see can they collect it without having the bylaws in place because it was voted for. Yeah. We'll we'll look that up and we'll report at the next meeting. I'll be responsible for that. Okay. That would be a way to get around. Yeah, exactly. Implementation, right?
Especially this year, you know. I can't even believe they did it, but I say those people and they Well, yeah, because they were sold, right? And I was I was at the meetings. Well, the other thing is I was at the senior center when
the guy came and and um he was from the trail restaurant. Yeah. And he he sold it to the senior citizens and I actually I challenged him cuz he said this all this stuff that I I knew because I painted in
Westford so I knew what it was and I I even got up and said, "No, what you're saying is not true. You better be careful. you better be careful. And I said, "It's not." He was saying, "Oh, it's it's only $40 and we're going to do all this
wonderful stuff." And he says, "No, it's not just $40." And I says, "It's a tax on my property tax and it's not just assessing everybody 40 bucks this year and it's you're never going to see it again." And he says, "Goes up every year. It and he's oh no, no, no, no.
It's just and and people at the election, they didn't even know. They were asking, "What is this? What am I voting on?" We couldn't say anything at the at the uh the polls. At the polls and a lot of people just Right. Yeah. We can't we can't say
anything at the polls. We can say stuff. Yeah. at at the poll, which was unfortunate because there was a lot of people that just were so confused by the whole whole thing. And the way it was word, it wasn't worded very well. So, it wasn't
worded very well for the truth. Well, right. Yeah. For the right. It was slanted. Yeah. Just like this one. The right and the idea public schools. And I don't understand why we do this.
We know we know and it just it boggles my mind. But anyways, we're coming back coming back. Coming back and okay to the reserve fund. Reserve fund. Reserve fund. Okay. Okay.
Now a lot of people in the room I think especially all the new newbies haven't seen us use the reserve fund before. Um the reserve fund is the line it was in the budget this year $50,000. Oh our
our dropped 10,000. It it dropped 10,000 by FY26 um which is a 20% drop um and what has been asked is can we drop more
um if the override doesn't pass. What do we use it for? um the emergency the emergency. So if if I go to FY24 and bring this up, this was in in the file. So um you you used almost all of it. We used almost all
down there all the 50 level. So what's number up there on purpose? Okay. So if we if we the reserve fund description Yeah. And um put in the glossery. We can find it on the web page.
Extraordinary reserve fund an amount set aside annually within the budget account not to exceed 5%. So 5% of what of the tax levy from the prior year which means 5% of 20,000 20
million say it's kind of like that would be the not to exceed. Well we had we handed it 50,000 which is half half of a percent. Oh, it's kind of like so we we dropped it to 40,000 which 410
Yeah. No, we're not going to drop it. So it it says um for extraordinary or unforeseen expenditures. Okay. Like a lightning strike when that was a go. So this this year when we when we spent
a lot of money, we had an elevator repair because there was a safety issue. We came in to be inspected. Yeah. Um and we had to have the elevator upgraded. Um we had an alarm repair that was unplanned for at the police station.
Generators died out here. So that you didn't have backup. Um the sewer pumps went out to the septic. We couldn't Yeah. Whoops. Both pumps went out. It's kind of like And those are serious items. Those are those are serious elevator. Okay.
Yeah, it was a safety it it was a safety upgrade that was needed. So, it wasn't not operational. It was just a safety feature that had Okay. So, can I ask a question about this? Have we been asked by the selectman to drop it? Yes. So, I thought that there was no uh cuts
to uh safety. Well, this is if you look back to the past safety elevators is safety. Well, no. When they say safety, the public safety section of the budget, it's different. That's that's the public safety is is the section of the budget.
I So safety is used in different. So and then there were three deductibles for litigation and here 10,000 a piece. We have a deductible in in our litigation and they closed three cases. Okay. So this now this what FY20 the
litigation what's that all about? There there were three lawsuits all kinds of lawsuits against the town over the last many years. Oh yeah there's tons of lawsuits over this only because I was cleaning up the clean but we used that's what we allocated this money for in addition to
the ceiling falling over the main stairs and and others. So there there was a lot of activity. So that year we used uh 48,000 and change of the 50,000. So let's go back to litigation. Was litigation for people that did wrong thing that
sued sued the town. Someone sued the town. Somebody sued the town. Bunch of people. And so that doesn't go to that department that got sued. The person that got sued from that department. It comes to the It comes to the town. The the town's I think somebody just sued
recently for workman's comp. I think they won. Um, then it comes to this reserve fund. It It doesn't always This is the first time. So, this was the first time we hit it. That was extraordinary. We didn't see it coming. So, do we vote on it? We We have to vote
on it and we have to pay it. Now, with the reduced money and these things, we maybe need to decline what these extraordinary and unusual events. So, let me ask you this. In in fiscal 25, what have we spent so far? I've spent
nothing so far. You because you haven't seen one of the forms. There's a a request form that comes in to transfer from the reserve fund to we can't spend directly out of the reserve fund. We have to transfer from the reserve fund to the account like a a maintenance and
repair account to repair the auto system. Okay. So, if we don't spend this 50,000 for FY25, so the end of the fiscal year, does it go back to the general fund? It it does. Then it gets certified as free cash in the fall. Oh,
free cash. So then, all right. So for FY26, Yep. they ask you to take the the $10,000 cut, but are they actually going to are they actually going to give you the $40,000? It is it is allocated in
the budget to us and it only comes out when we assign when we approve. But you're going to actually you're actually going to get it. Well, we it it's it's in the account in the BBA, you will you will see the Yeah, I've seen the line.
Yeah. Okay. And it until we transfer something out of it, it will stay at 50,000 and 40,000. And they're asking us to go down even they're asking if we feel comfortable going. That's just a budget trick because we, as you know, couple of years ago we spent down there
50,000. This year we haven't spent anything. You never know where they This is an emergency. You know, it's a sponge to collect problems. You're not We've got problems all over the place waiting to happen. This town is a couple hundred years old and a lot of our buildings go
back and and that's why I put the averages and how much we've used over the years that I've been tracking it. Prior to this, I I could go back to the town of Calton and ask for a report and see what the others were. But we have a
three-year history and we have basically used an average of 30,000 in that account over those three years. I'd be reluctant to reduce it any more than I I feel uncomfortable with that. I feel uncomfortable the drop in the 40 because it's the emergency because it's our
savings account when that goes back to we don't have any how much money is left in like the stabilization. I mean we we've got like no money anywhere. Stabilization is 1.1 million issue. Okay. ish is it's a little more than I I
know that it's more than a 1.1 million, but I I wouldn't want to go any more than 40,000. Okay. And that's that's that's why I I sort of I didn't bring it to the whole board when I said, "Yeah, let's take 10,000
off because that's what we were backing up by 23." So that that was my bet. I should have brought it to everybody. That's okay. We we'll forgive you for the 10,000, but I don't think we should take any more here because the other thing that concerned me was I did see
the email from Ka to I think it was I don't know if it was to Nelson. I think it was to Nelson. Where's my $10,000 that they keep promising her for the recycling center? They haven't paid it. No, they're not paying bills now. Well,
she's I know. I saw an email. She said, "Nelson, where's my $10,000 for the recycling center? What are you going to pay me?" Um, so that$10,000 going to the I mean, I don't know if they've paid it
since, but it's like I'm concerned that it's there's a 10 there's a $10,000. I mean, we keep robbing Peter to pay. There's like no, right? And and I know that they made promises and maybe at some of the I think it was the trash
meetings they were It was something to do with the trash. Yeah. And and that's probably why I got all the emails that I was Oh, trash and um and there was something in that meeting about the receipts and all this stuff that she
said. and um she specifically said about the $10,000 which I thought she had already gotten but it was a email that I got like I think the end of last week. Um oh they taking that $10,000 and
giving it to her. Well they're supposed I think she was supposed to get $10,000 from the bag receipts from the recycling center or something because she gave up I forget what it was but I know what the trash feeding she gave up something. Well those were the the promise of
getting 10,000. So it might have been the purple bags were the overflow bags maybe that was it something before pay your throat and everybody had to use purple bags. So they were probably had done some calculations about how much
revenue they had for overflow bags. But don't they get paid for those immediately? Okay. So that all of that revenue no longer goes to Border Health when it was when it was only used for overflow bags. All of that revenue for overflow bags
went to Border Health. Okay. In the recycling fund. Now it doesn't go there. So some of the money that they had used from the overflow bags helped pay for it sounds like it helped pay for the operation of the recycling center. You
ever did it? I you know there's a lot of like unknowns and they keep moving money from line item up and down and taking money away and putting money back you know do you think it's time for a real forensic audit I mean a real forensic audit not an independent audit a
forensic audit which means they have that every year right no not forensic forensic is that you look for specific illegal items that are happening and I'm not saying that they do anything illegal I just don't have a lot confidence on
it. I don't either. I I I would Okay, we we need to get clarity on that on that item before I'll have to look at the email again. But maybe she got the money from him. I mean, because it was like a week ago. So, but where did he get it from?
It it could have been would have been from the bag receipts. From the bag receipts because the bag receipts are going into the general fund and so they Who takes care of that? I mean, how does it get from Anids to or McNams to How
does it how does it So, it goes to from what I remember they said it so the the the stores get get paid for the bags. They send the money to the to the company that made and supplied the bags. So, the company that made supplied the bag says, "Here, I gave you this many
bags this month. You owe me this money, this much for those bags." So, the store sends the money to that company. Yeah. And that company then sends the check to us that says this is how much came in with the bag. We took out our cut and the rest comes to the town and they
I think that's way so weight zero is is the order for the bag from all the retailers. They receive the money um from the retailers. Wow. For the bags. It's kind of like then waist zero.
That's a lot of work for the retailers. I mean, I know. I understand that. It gets them in the store and they buy more stuff. I get that, but it's still But $0. It does. Oh, I was at Walgreens today. Walgreens is selling purple bags. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they they have a window.
We now have purple bags. So, yes, where's Walgreens? Down at the harbor. The harbor. So, yeah, there's there's more retailers with the bags. Um and and that is the process and that's how the money was was
going when it was paid when when it was only over four banks. So all that they did was expand expend expand the program to every every bank which was just more money transferring between the retailers and way zero and then way zero was
transferring still transferring to us on that. Can we go back a lot of steps in between there? Wait. Yeah, we need to we need to go back on that. But be before we do, I will also reserve fund the the reserve fund. It's kind of like we're going to make a motion. Oh, to reduce
not any further reducing it 20%. And in looking at the averages, we were at 30,000 a year on the years we've used it. So, we're not comfortable going. Remember, every year it's shrinking just by the fact that what needs to be repaired next year
costs more than having it repaired last year. We don't have the money to fix it this year. Number one, that's one of the reasons we work very hard to get it to 50 from wherever low it was. Like I said, it's.5% of the, you know, the
receipts. It's only used for emergencies. And if it happen to get through a year without it, we get the money back into the town and then a different 50,000 is, you know, given to us at the next town annual meeting and
Oh, you mean it will always be 40,000? No, no, no. It It's kind of like this year it's going to be 40,000 because we we So yes, we we've gone back to So normally it was 50, right? Normally it was 50. It was 40,000 for FY22 and 23.
it went to 50,000 in FY24. So that was the first time we we had gotten the increase and again it's based on the budget is getting bigger and it's kind of like so every year the budget gets bigger this amount if we don't increase
it gets smaller. So um when you and I don't I don't always like the comparisons but I look at the other towns they have 150,000 in Oh my. Now that that I would I would love to have that. Yes. Because that tells me there's
a re, you know, if you have a real 50 50 $40,000 isn't going to cover a roof. Yeah. No, it's kind of like it it it might cover, you know, if you have an emergency to patch a big roof. It's kind of like um Okay. I'll make the motion.
I'll make the motion. Yeah. Sorry. It's kind of like I can I can go all day. I make a motion that the finance committee does not drop the reserve fund any further if the than 40,000 if Yeah.
If the override doesn't pass. No anyway, no matter what. No, it's still too low at 40. Well, it's already at 40. So, that's what I mean. But not below 40. push. That's why we wanted it up to 50 was a theoretically eventually to push
it a little higher to make sure that it's there for those eies for the real emergencies. And again, you know, we all with that. Now, the other one, we we have the dues and memberships line at
$750. This year, we used about 500. We paid for our dues and we paid for the manuals. How much for the dues? Um the dues were 196 this year. So they're asking us to take No, I I'm just throwing that out because that's the only other line we have in our budget.
Okay. We have two lines do some membership and but nobody has taken classes, gone to seminars or anything else. So, but I think that we should keep that because the three of us at least are new. I mean, if there's something we would like to go to, I
think it should be available. particularly knowing what we're up against with the other side of the table. But it's always good to keep up with what's been changing and going on the DS stuff. It was an annual something or other down
in Worcester at the college there. Yeah. And it was very, let me put it this way. I came out with 10% and stuck in my head trying to figure out what the other 90% was they talked about. And then I went back the next year. So the
bucket is the brain started the fill. I think we should be attending things like I do too. Okay. Well, we'll look at the MMA MMA schedule. Um and and I know the annual is in November. Um Oh, good.
Well, I think you know Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, it's it's kind of like so the annual meeting is first couple of weeks in November usually if I recall. Usually is down around Sharon or something like that. So the long long ride but Sharon
Sharon mess it's a long ride but Mhm. I think you get more out of in person than you do looking at Absolutely.% 100% you meet other people and you exchang half of that 10% definitely came from shooting a bull outside the meeting
itself. Absolutely. Yeah. Holy Cross. Did anybody second to second? Okay. I said not yet, but yeah, sure. I'll be sorry. Okay. Sorry. It's kind of like
things are going to get harder, right? You know, as soon as the going to get deeper and deeper and deeper, we really need to get deeper and deeper. Okay. So, we had a motion to not not I said a motion for the finance committee not not to reduce the reserve fund any
further. Correct. So, um roll call vote in the affirmative is to keep it at the at the 40,000 which is 20% lower than asked for. Well, that's for on purpose. Not it's not like we're going to go out
and buy something with it. We are only there holding a special fund for those emergencies that no I mean all maintenance funds should always be set up to anticipate some emergencies but there's a point to which that you know
and then they have a real emergency and that's when they come to us right y and that's and then we transfer it to their emergency fund or wherever they were so they don't even go we don't even pay for it we just transfer that money over to Well, I'm I'm definitely going to vote.
General Maz is yes. But then I have a question. Okay. Okay. You want to go around and vote? You want to vote on that? Well, is is the question in the motion? If because if it does, we should can we be overridden by the selectment
on this particular vote? Um I don't I don't believe so. It's kind of like they've asked us and and we're saying no, we don't want to go any lower, especially this year with all the cuts. If if the override doesn't
pass, if if the override doesn't pass, we we have given up 20%. We don't feel comfortable giving up. That's very fair. I think that's fair. Start all the machines and then they won't break. Start again.
Okay. All right. Mayor Jane Churchfully. Walker. Yes. Chair says yes. A's yes. Unanimous. We um unfortunately don't feel it is anymore we can we can
offer because we're trying to protect the town. Yes. Yes. Be fiscally responsible. A lot for a town this size. That's a heck of a low amount of money to have for that emergency that we can't plan and no way
to plan on for for a $20 million budget. And and that's low. It's a 29 $28 million budget. Yeah. Um but the levy is where we have to get it and that the levy is 20 20 million for my purposes. Um I have a tendency to look at the
entire physical structure. Um the the only budget that I saw was the omnibus budget posted on the website. Um so if was that the one that was so little you couldn't see it? Yeah, you have to blow it up. So there's been
no there's been a tiny bit of movement. Let me go to the omnibus and I apologize. It's kind of like is the omnibus posted as a PDF or as a It's a PDF. So I had time to kill. So I I looked at the total budget and the
total budget was different than we had and then so I went section by section identifying the ones that had changed and so I went in and I marked up the bus with that you had in Excel that I had in Excel. Okay. With with the changes that I could find and
could you tell us what lines those are? Yep. That's where if I if I get to my right and this one is not it I don't think. Um, yeah. 4:15. This should be So, I'll go back up to the top.
Okay. Okay. This is the file that we were talking about over with last week, right? This is this is last week's file. You'll you'll see on the on the very top. It's hard to see. Um, I put it I put the dates on on the top. So it
says on the bus budget FY26 override version two415. Version two or version three. If the last one that was given me was version two which what number are you at? I can't see where those numbers are. Okay. So if you just say what line you
want. Okay. So I'm going to I'm going to filter on reds because I highlighted the lines that were different. Okay. Okay. So the first line that's different in the budget is line 120 wages operating staff.
Okay. Okay. What is that now? Okay. It is 27,715. So they reduced it by 19,000. Now the 19,000 in their notes says it's coming from Arper. So this is
still truly a 46,719 line. They're just using it from invisible funds or not not visible in in the budget. How does it come from Arthur? They they they will open up the
project with the company that opens the projects for us and say that they want to use it for wages and and assign it for the town corp wages. I thought assistance. I thought the opera funds were all done with. I thought they use
all the opera funds to balance the budget at the end of the There were there were two items left in the budget. There was the unused funds for the community outreach, right, for this year, the FY25 numbers. And then there
was also for the human services. You want it bigger? Let me let me make it bigger. Well, they just let the kitchen lady go. Walk up anyway. So, she's done at the end of June. But they didn't let the HR lady go. They
did. They should. They should, but I don't know who they are. We sent our recommendation in. We did. Yeah, we did. I I I don't copy everybody on those emails, but we're Carol. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that you said the email with the
four motions that we made. The one was the the HR. There was the four motions we made that day. One was the HR person, right? One was the community, one was the page as you throw. Yeah. Not to fill the community. Remember we said we don't want that transition fil. And so this
this line if if you take line 120 and go back to the PDF, you'll see the note that says $19,000 is being funded with ARA. So it's a change in here, but it really is not a change. It's still a 46,000. When you
get to FY27, you need 47 40. Yeah. You know, and you still need the 46 and all the other lines were police lines that went up. Um, what number do I have? Okay. Um, so if we go to line
258, the police and wave. Now, what how is it that they go up? Well, because they're going to take over the constable's job. No, no, they were No, this this this is about I believe
they're doing their police contract right now. They were negotiating police. Well, you know, that's another thing. Um that's I really feel very I don't have a lot of confidence in them negotiating with the with the unions. I mean, Lori
Shiffren said right at the meeting that she was not qualified, so that takes care of her. Nelson didn't want to do it. Veronica has been had Burfinger in it for the past six years. Oh yeah, I think we need a real municipal
negotiator. And the other thing is who where's the attorney in all of this? Because those two contracts that expire in June that automatically renew if nobody says anything, what attorney lets that go? I mean, go does what he's told?
I I don't know how attorneys I mean I love my cops but um yeah but sometimes I I've heard through different people that we're overstaffed for the size of our town. Well I don't know if that's true
or not but I think that's something we should probably look into is the finance rate over based on our based on our population and our our call records. I mean, how many rapes, murders, robberies, you know, have changed? The
number changed to Well, I know I drive into town and I see 979,000. Two cop cars pulling a car over 979,000. 979,37. So, that's $75,000 increase.
You'd be Yeah, 75. Yep. And they're asking us to cut our savings budget, emergency [Music] budget. And so is that a new position? I don't necessarily believe so, but it
could be that it's the officers that were in training or coming in. The ones from the academy. The academy might be. Yeah. How many is that? Three. I think it was three. Yeah, three. I thought that was already in the budget when we looked at it. Yeah, I thought
that too. Yeah, I think you're right. That's why it could be, you know, we'll go back and question it. We see the changes. This is the first time. Okay. You know, I I saw them this morning because like I said, I I looked at the file line 263, the
police additional gross holiday. Where is it now? about the gross holiday pay or something holiday. Um it is increasing to 42,779. So that's an increase of $579.
That's Yeah, that's how much line 264 police other stipen longevity is increasing to 9,500. So that's an additional 750.
Okay. Okay. Um line 265 police are the stipens the bill uh well it says Quinn bill but as we've heard the Quinn bill okay is it's just a name they put on the account that
is stuck bill um but that is going to 125,983 okay so that's an increase of 8, [Music] 32. And do we know why? Um, I don't. It It was something I found this morning. I
haven't gotten any of the any of this to to ask. I suppose I can go to the chief. The next one is line 266. Okay. Police other uniform allowance. It is going to
20,200, which is an additional 1,200. I got to close myself in a decade. It's a real old video. And then one one final change. Um line 378 center for the services. Mhm. That
is reducing to 277,993 278 277. these custom tailor and what's it going to? No, that's what that's what it's going to. It was 283. 277 277993 9993. So it's reduced. It's reduced by
about 6,000. Do you know why it's reduced? And it's 277. I don't. The only note said per direction of the chief. You know 277 line 378. Oh 378. Yeah. So I just want
to go back that when we went over the first bud the first time we were told oh can't cut any of that now all of a sudden we can well if if they've got their assessment from the communication oh from the
communication people right I see you know so that may have been a first cut first estimate and getting Could I have that number again okay so it's going to be 277,993. That's a reduction. That's a reduction.
So that's like a pass through. That is that like a pass through? That's a Yeah. Okay. What else? That's all that's all. Oh, that's it. That's all the changes I was able to find. Now in the bottom it when it gets to the bottom line my number
matched with the number that was on that PDF file. So by doing these changes bottom line everything everything matched matched. Okay. So how much did we gain and how much did we lose? We gained about 100,000.
How did what do you mean? How much how did we increase? We increased we well we increased at least Well let me do the math. Well, though you're pretty good at math, you're really good at math. I'm terrible at math. I'm just
I have to pay for and it takes me a few definitely an increase. Well, I I don't know what the 979 was increase of 100,000, wasn't it? Well, we had the $75,000 increase and then there was a
couple little thousand and then there was a couple of hundred. Okay. So, and then there's $6,000 decrease. So, the total increase is okay. So, the total
Okay. So, let me let me manipulate the cells and I'll put the figure. Yep. I can I I know you can. Um, once upon a time I could do that too, but been too too many years since I've had to manipulate cells. And again, it's
not manipulating. It's using a formula called subtotal. So everything that you if if you if you built the right, it will give you totals for just Yeah. If you if you fill the cells with the right formulas, then you can then you can
easily manipulate the cells and you can make it. Okay. So it is an in a total increase of 61,621. Can you say that again? 61,621. What's the total? That's the that's the total that's the net total. Okay. Minus.
Yeah, there there's a there's a couple there's a couple of minuses and and the pluses. So from the budget that we originally had, it increased 61,621. Not going down either. No, not going down at all. So, is the is are they even
asking enough money for the override? Well, that's been working on that as we speak. And if if they go for if they go for another override because they can't change it, right? Right. They can't change it. No, they have to live with it. So, if they're lucky to get it, if
they get it at all, they have to live with it. The ballot the ballot is printed with the number. So that's that's the number they're trying to get to. So now let me ask you, is it 640 or 625? The ballot says 625. That's that's the
ask. So the override is 625 that Why do they keep telling us it's 640? No, they Okay, so let me I'll pull up the recap sheet and we can we can go that piece. So let me
let me filter on the bottom. So we can see the B. Well, maybe it's not even real. Well, maybe it could be any number. We have no idea. It could be anything. And how you don't know 15 days before you have to vote on
it. You know, my brain is still working on the trash. Please don't bring that up. We'll be here until midnight. Just want trash. I won't be there so you don't have to worry about Y. Yeah. Well, I'm going to say I don't remember. Well, I
mean, she she kind of explained it and she explained why she felt the fee was better than increasing the price and she said that's based on the experience that she's had with other towns that are doing this program. So, I'm going to take right a word
because she's trying to figure out how do we preserve the trash program and she felt that the fee is better than increasing the price on the bags. Okay. Fee plus bags. Yeah. Keeping the bag
cost as it is and adding a fee rather than increasing the cost of the bags. Except now she felt the better because I think the fee was going to be assessed to everyone whether
they real. No, I think she said it was only going to be assessed to everyone whether you use the trash. I think that was one of the versions. I I thought what was presented by Arrene at the meeting was they're going to come with a sticker for the people to pay. Oh god.
Yes. The sticker. The sticker. Oh, and then you have and you know, you're going to drive people crazy because actually after Irene said about, well, a lot of people don't have barrels. They just put the purple bags out. And you know what?
When I was driving through or walking, I guess walking through Tiboly Park. That's right. Because I never really noticed. I mean, I never paid attention. So, I paid attention. There's a lot of people don't have those to No, they I put out a purple bag
because the shape of the bag doesn't fit in my barrel. Right. But she's saying you got to have a barrel to put the sticker on. Well, the barrel is going to cost $150 and it's You have to buy the barrel from them though. Yeah. Not at all. No, you have
to buy from at Sam's they're like $200 to buy recycle. Oh, yeah. She was going on about the stupid sticker and I was ready to shoot myself. It was like we don't know how to fix it. There's Yeah, it was she was going on about
how to fix it and then you know you got to tell them and are they even going to pay attention? Those guys they're coming along and they're dumping this stuff. They're not looking at the stupid. And that's that's why she Oh, you don't know about the day I brought my trash up to
Nelson. Did you? I absolutely did. Yes. Good for you because this whole he said, she said this, they them. I said taking it up to you never came and got it. My sister had a big argument with people at the board house about the trash, but they told her
she was wrong that they did pick it up. It was a nightmare. I can only imagine that it's going to get worse. Did you leave it here? I didn't leave it here. I brought it up to his office and Well, well, that was a good thing because I when I lived in Westford, I got an email threatening it went out to the whole
town, but it basically threatened that if you didn't put your recycling out, you wouldn't get your trash picked up. And I said, "Well, sometimes I don't put sometimes I just walk out because my driveway was very steep and I couldn't
get out cuz my barrels were at the thing and I would just take like the kitchen bag and just watch the truck and drop it out and I wouldn't put the things up." So I said, "I'm a senior citizen. My drive is extremely icy and I can't always get up there." And she comes back
and says, "Well, I suggest you hire somebody to take your trash out there." Oh my god. So, you know what I did? I went to the town administrator of Westford and I said, "If my trash is not getting picked up, it's going to be on your front steps." There you go. And it's like and
I said, "It better be picked up." Oh, yeah. And he was like, "Oh, oh, that should have gone out to everybody." We And I said I showed him the email and I said, "And this is a town person. She's and she's saying this stuff." I'm like,
"We always have recycling. We just don't always have grass. It's kind of do that comes home with lettuce containers. No way to compact them. You can't jump on them. You can't do anything to break
them down. So I it's putting out a lot of air. Oh yeah. I just put my stuff on every other week. I was going to say crashes. I'm sure it would be Thank you for the update. I appreciate what I've heard. You kind of had to miss the last event.
So you kind of they and so I just filtered too. Well, I brought it up even though I was stepping into a the pile of trash. Good for you. I applaud. I'm on a roll. to do that. Yeah. So, the
the new total amount for the budget is 28 million 971,7371. Yeah. 28 97173 and they haven't negotiated the contracts, right? So, they could it could still go up or they try to negotiate down. Well, the
contracts don't end the UV contracts don't end till next year. They all get 850 for clothing allowance. Oh, next year. 26 is when the What's this big What's this big talk about? They're going to negotiate where they can negotiate. Oh, I think you said the
police. No, yeah. So, we have the town employees context being the police. Yeah. So, the the police is up. We have five unions. The police is up now. Everybody, the other four unions are next year. They told us I believe they told us that last week. Yeah, that is
that is what that's what Nelson said last this was what everybody was worried about the negotiations for the town or or is this not No, no, no. That that I think what you're thinking about with the negotiation of the town. If the override doesn't pass, then there has to
be negotiation. So, so yeah, that's not what we were just talking about. We're talking about renegotiating a police union contract. Oh, you mean because it came up? Because Are they in the midst of that now or are they waiting until after the
town meeting? Are we waiting? I would assume they're in the judging from We have updated number. It depends when the contract actually ends. It may not. Well, they said they said they said it was the contract the current contract ends June 30th at the end of the fiscal
year. So they Yeah, they're probably in negotiations now because you want to have it in place. Yeah, because they got to have it signed by. So does the 61,621 bump up to 625? It it can't bump up to 625. The 625 is a
number that's printed on the ballot and that can't change. How are we going to pay the Well, because after if if the say the override does pass. I want to say the override is not going to pass. I don't think it I'm waiting for the reality to set in and what happens. But
just just say for argument sake it passes at the 625 cuz that's what the balance question is. Well, okay. So now they probably don't have still don't have enough money and they're going to turn this is my
thinking that they're going to turn around and oh by the way we have to have another but are they backing into this number? Are they trying they're not they're not back they they're not necessarily trying to back into the number. Let me get the recap sheet open and then share that. She just doesn't
give me a feeling of confidence. Have you ever had a feeling of confidence since you've been here? No. Not in this room. Not my decision. And you have I think confidence in the budget. Well, the first couple meetings I I really enjoyed them and I liked learning stuff. But then when I found
out what was supposed to be done asked, do you have any confidence in the budget being accurate? No, none whatsoever. Absolutely not. None. Or that Nelson's going to be able to if he's asked about figures tomorrow that he's not like No, it's going to be all
done show. It's all going to be and he's going to be like, "Oh, what?" He'll just put numbers out of his hair until somebody like Don Priest or somebody else have any hair. That's true. What if they the I I mean
the signs are up in I've seen signs over vote no for the over and I talked to some guy today that I haven't talked to forever and he was like on that override that can't pass nice well you know Carol it could
have passed I think if it was done correctly and we knew the number before but this idea they're not looking real good they're not looking real knowledgeable But they they mislead you by putting the words public schools in the book. Well, that's a whole other story. They still don't have the number
regardless of the public schools been in or not. I I know they still don't have the number and it it I think part of the problem is the fact that the select board turned over cuz this year we should be starting the budget process in like October rather than waiting till January. I say September. Okay. Damn it.
I mean, you're right though. Wait, what? I said I don't have a problem with September. Right. Right. The idea of waiting until the end of the year and but I'm not so sure. Don and when when is the budget process typically started
in in history? It it December the town administrator sent out to the department heads to request. Okay. So, so that's so we were consistent this year with what we've done in the past. In August, you know, send the letter out in
August in September. Yeah. And and this year is is going to be critical because most most town hall budgets were cut on the on the expenses for sure. It's kind of like
everybody came back and tried to cut more and so they're going to be running off a lean in town hall. Um, well, you know, the other thing is I I seem to have apparently some towns are on top of
this. Um, they have these bound books of the budget that they give out like in the month of April prior to their town meeting. Towns and used to do that. We had them. I can remember those. And Kathy actually gave me three of them. I forgot to bring them tonight. But I want to know why we're not getting those. Why
Why are those not done anymore? Probably because there's an expense to it. I mean that can't be. They don't even have a number though, right? It the budget is not firm enough to print and bind at this point. You can't you you don't have anything to bind at this point.
The long bus was posted is different than what we had last week. So it changed over the weekend. Yeah. Or maybe Friday. Um but even still that change the week before it. Yeah. And it may change again.
It could change an hour before town meeting. Well, Veronica made that very clear that their obligation to give it to us before the town. Oh, Tom meet them come in an hour before town meeting and say, "Here's your new budget." Well, you know, change after town
meeting, but Jared, that that's not right. No, it's not. You're not kidding me. I I think we should be prepared for that. And I think that we should recommend to the town that it not be voted if we're not getting until now before cuz how the heck can we recommend anything if we only see it now before?
One of the main things that we usually do with the finance committee you go through in the budget and recommend and not recommend. Um we we we haven't seen anything firm enough that is in place that we can we can actually take votes on because it's still changing. But when
does that stop and we do our job and recommend or not recommend? Well, if if if we go back and look at the bylaws in the process, um if we didn't have our firm budget, we're supposed to go back to
last year's budget. Uhhuh. Um and just use those numbers and and pass them forward. Why don't they just do that then if they can't? Yeah, probably. Well, it it could be higher than than we know what that number is. Um,
let me let me get the fiscal 25. The turn off that I had said it was 27,456 for the operating budget. Yep. Well, that's lower than the 28, right? That's lower than the 28. 28. Then why don't we just go back for But but see,
that's the schools and the schools have including the schools. But to make the average department, whether it's police, fire, um the highway, there's no reason why they can't have a format, not this particular page. I'm just pulling this
out. It's, you know, that has every line item they need. And if they don't need that line item, they don't get it, then they just leave it blank because obviously the the town clerk needs different
things than the um whatever the police department but but so that line doesn't get filled in and therefore when we get it y we have an idea of everything with the states over here to make the questions. What is
why are you doing this? Why are you asking for more money? Why aren't you asking for less? Why are you asking for the same? You should be asking for less um you know for the police department uniforms. I don't understand why you need another that much money for a uniform. I had my Civil War special US
grant uniforms handmade for a heck of a better price than that and they were expensive. So I mean what are these handtailored? uh uh you know you know you go in for a fitting
every couple of weeks to make sure that it's maybe the patch maybe the uniform's the same and the patch costs the money. I don't I don't know. Patches are reasonably priced. You can get them one off. So So that's less. So Oh, you're
saying the 20 No, no. The school is in the 28,971. It is. But if Right. But it's higher than than it was last year. Last year because the schools were that doesn't matter. I mean that the number is the number like trying to blame it on school or blame it on I'm not I'm not blaming
the wrong word. I'm sorry. I'm I'm trying to say if we're trying to compare apples to apples yearover-year. I would take the school budgets from this year add the difference into last year's total budget to come out with an
equivalent total budget because we know what the schools are. The schools have been consistent. Oh, because the schools can't change, right? Right. Yep. Well, I I think we have to take a stand because if we're not going to get this thing until now before, there's no way I'm going to I would just tell the
people you're crazy on. You're on your own. Yeah. It's kind of like you're on your own. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's kind of like we have no recommendation because we can't even see it. That has happened. We We have Well, is it is it done on purpose? No. No. I I don't think it's done on
purpose because I do truly believe there's an effort trying to be made to get to a budget that balances. We're not there yet. The I I just I don't understand it. I do not understand it. Okay. But we've been
working on this and working on it working on and it's now April. Okay. What seems to be the problem? That they can't balance it. What is the problem? It is like the state hasn't given us any
money. No, that's part of the problem. It's part of the It's the You mean for the school? The school I take the school out of it because we did we did take the school out of it. Yeah. So, we still have a problem with the rest of the budget because the the money that we're now paying for the school we have to
make up for from the rest the remainder of the town budget. That's what that's what we've been trying to do and the selective board has been trying to do. Don, didn't that happen last year too? Um, doesn't it happen that the school does not get the money from the state
every year? That's right. And we have to go to the overight every year. So last last year we level funded the school assessment year over year. So the FY25 number identically matched the assessment and
the FY24 number with trying to get an override so that we could pay the assessed value that the the assessment from the schools. The override failed
and we went we went forward um we got a new budget from the school. was a little lower and the assessment was a little lower, but we still didn't have the money because when we passed a balanced budget, we had the same dollars from
FY24 in the FY25 budget. So then we got to August of last year. I have to get my dates. Um then in August um the in the annual election in in the
other towns um they didn't they didn't fund the school budget either. So when two when two of the towns voted down that's when the school had to come back with a different number. When we got to the
August time frame, um Ashby had an override question that failed in their general election in April. They got to August and they paid it out of their operating budget. So that's why it passed Ashby. So Pero had passed all
along. Ashby then passed it an hour before we started our town meeting. When we started a town meeting, that's when we we took all of the trash money, moved it to the school line, paid for the school assessment, and and that's what
started this whole downhill thing. Okay. But even for this time, now for this, we've already got the schools, even though they came out of the free cash and whatever, that that piece is done. That piece is done. So now we're working
on the rest of the budget. Forget about the school. What's left? What wherever that money comes from? Y and they still can't seem to figure out enough enough cuts to come. Well, because they won't
do the cuts that are necessary. Well, that's the answer right there. And that's the answer. Is they picking two because the school they're trying to they're they're trying to come in with a with a with with a fine. I don't think so. And you need a bigger you you need a
bigger you you need bigger chunks. Unfortunately, I don't think they're trying to keep their who they want to keep. And unfortunately they don't want to let anyone go. But at this but at this point in time we have no no
basically no money. We don't have a a kitty for ready day a ready day kitties find. Yeah. So at this point in time we need to make those hard cuts. We
do. And maybe in if we can make those high cuts, build up our kitty, we can maybe bring some people back. But at some point, she going to have to have to pass down. You bet it won't pass down,
you know. Well, but but you're talking I've seen too many times at the table where we sit, you know, and we were whatever against it for whatever reason, you know, it's not right. this has to go and somebody stood up and you know then
everybody stood up and then they voted on it and they voted it in even though it was not recommended at all that it was you know the money needs to go somewhere much more important than that but now we're going to be coming to a point in time whether it's next year or the year after where there is no money
well then then what happens I mean that's what I see happening I mean that that's like forecasting 101 I mean it's like and Those are the pieces. That's why last last week I asked, okay, so let's say the let's say the override passes this year. What's it look like
next year? Exactly. It's going to be another override. It Well, it but if you don't show people what what it's going to be with the override and without the override. Um and and again we're we're looking at
trying to cut individuals rather than maybe looking at what departments do we absolutely need to run the town and keep those open and look at the optional ones. Absolutely. But I don't think that's happening at all. No, but that
you know is is that what we have to do is is that more is that we we the ping we we the towns is is that what we have to look at rather rather than trying to cut every department so there's a
shortage of people in the work that's the answer I don't think that's the answer and I think you need to come up with that list of what departments do you need to run absolutely what are the require what are the statutory requirements to the the state and what has to be reported. Town
clerks, assessors, um treasury, you you have to collect your money and get it. The treas treasuries are required. Accountants required because you're going to pay the bills. It's kind of like so go right. The necessary to what what absolutely required like triage. Yep.
Potentially and and do the you know if if we want to try to come up with you know do you want to keep trash? If you don't want to keep trash, that that might help cut. Well, so then we do their job because it would be so much easier for not only us, but the town's people
if they had given us the with the cuts budget and like they promised us and promised us and prom override, no, without the override the two and they right, they won't give it to us as opposed to tomorrow night. No, they
haven't a forum to create total chaos. Well, well, they they my understanding from last week was that their intention was to do like the school does when they were announcing, not say where the cut, what department
is actually getting, but how many cuts because they're not going to tell us what services we're not going to have. So, we're going to vote on something we don't know because the reason they're doing that is you can't announce it before there's been negotiations with
the unions. I think that whole thing they negotiated the price. They didn't negotiate who might get laid off. That's the negotiation. We had a job for 600 hours in town hall. That's what they negotiated. Now they have to negotiate.
There's going to be 400 hours in town hall which means we're going to leave 200 hours of your union employees. So the negotiation is now how is is the union you know what John they've known about this for at least 2 months. Why
haven't they gone and just bit the bullet? They made all these horrible rumors and everybody got all scared to death. 20% cut family and friends in the fall. What? Why didn't they do negotiations in the fall? But no, we
didn't know the FY26. We we FY25 was a balanced budget. We didn't need to make those cuts in the fall because it was a balanced budget. And what we did in August with the extra 100,000 from the fire um receipts re receipts. They they
went in, they funded EMS, but that freed up 100,000 in general fund for the rest of their We can't keep going to the ambulance receipts. We can't we can't we can't keep going there. There was 136,000 from stabilization which we thought was going to be repaid with the
with the free cash. Well, that didn't happen. Yeah. It's kind of like so all of these things that were supposed to happen aren't happening. Saying the things they wanted to happen is not happening because the vote on the floor was the people
speaking. So what why did they hire I heard that they just hired three um summer hires or temporary workers for water or for cemeteries? I think cemetery or whatever. I mean could they get along with one? I mean I mean at
this point in time Mhm. I mean I know there's grass cutting but can't the people that work for the town cut the grass less times? Yeah. less time. Yeah, less frequently. Less frequently. I mean, I I
don't know. I I I thought mowers if you wait for the grass gets too long, you just mow it twice that same day, which puts in the same amount of cost in the end. I use the same amount of gasoline. I use the same amount of time.
I've just instead of doing it last week and this week, I did it this week twice. You already mowed your grass? What? You mowed your grass already? No, but this is what this is. I'm talking about you don't cut it so often. Yeah. No, you have to. And I think that's what I think
that's what is so difficult about this is we're trying to be fine-tuned and cut individual amounts here and there to try to get to a number like this. This try to the the
number of 640 was um the bottom line and Because this isn't the exact file. It says 734,000. I thought it was 625. It the 625 is the ask for the override.
The 640 was was the gap between the revenues and the budget. So they had to cut another 15. But that was before they added in this other 61. So now they have to cut 70. Oh 75. When they did the
override question, I guess they didn't they thought they were at 640 and they thought they could get to 625 equally. This is what's wrong. I don't get it. Yeah. So, they they had a number that was in a file and they thought they
could reduce it by by 15,000 to get to 620. And oh, whoops. It went up to 700,000 after they thought they could. Again, they this this is not their exact file. So, and and we still don't know how much the snow budget's going to go up from this last stop. Yeah. So, we
need Hey everybody, this is Cindy. I know you can't see me because you got the screen up. Um, since you just brought up snow and ice, could I speak? Yeah. Um, did uh Nelson tell you the problem with the snow and ice budget for fiscal
year 25? No. Okay. Um I was I was just in the select board meeting before I came to your meeting on Zoom. And apparently Nelson reported to the board of selectmen that the highway department found a missing invoice. And
I can't stop laughing. They found a missing invoice. One of those missing invoices that turn up every now and then. Um, apparently there's now not enough money in free cash to pay the fiscal year 25 snow and ice bill. So, one of their plans is to possibly ask
the fincom to use the reserve fund to fill the gap or um or they're going to have to do some kind of creative financing, but this is fiscal year 25. This isn't even before we get to fiscal year 26, but this is a plan that they don't have a plan for, just to let you
know. Okay. No, appreciate it. It's kind of like tell them what we did. Yeah. No, that's an FY26 thing. Oh, this is the 50,000 we have in FY26. Oh, they want it. They know it's there and they want it. Well, they they they think this is unforeseen highway. The highway. Well,
this is this is unforeseen. This is another reason we need the forensic it. But she didn't say how much the missing invoice was for. Cindy, how much is the missing invoice? I'm not really sure, but they they have um a need for
apparently it was hard to follow because you know how they are that 300,000 needed and they've they've only got 290 something in the in the free cash to use. They've only allocated that much. So, they're short. Um I think that's
what the numbers are. I'm not 100% sure because they were going back and forth, but they do not have they it's definite they don't have enough money in free cash to pay this invoice. Yeah. $300,000 invoice. Well, tell them
nope. I think that's the total snow and ice deficit. And then they have with the invoice included. Well, I don't have the exact invoice number, but they they were reporting that the the snow I believe the snow ice
deficit total is 300, but they do not have that money that much money left in the free cash spending, whatever they were doing with that, but there's just not enough. and and Nelson's trying to figure out how to manage it and going to try to either ask you guys for money
from the reserve fund or possibly um the you know transfer season when we start the municipal transfers later in the in the next couple of months. But there is a real plan right now. Yeah. Two yeah two weeks they can they we enter the window for that. Um Sydney, does that
include the this last dose stone? I believe. Well, it's a missing. This is I I don't know that. Well, we just had this last weekend. I don't think that money's in there yet either, right? We already purchased everything. I don't know. I think that still could be coming
in because that wasn't It's a late storm. Yep. Yeah, that's that's what we I I anticipated it to go up from there. I didn't know about the missing invoice, but can I do a little creative financing for wowing? Yeah. Okay. Well, now and if
anybody's listening, I'm I'm all for the fire truck. It has nothing to do with the has to do with the fires, but not to do with the fire truck. I want the fire caveat. And so anyway, um we took 80,000 out of 81,000 out of
Okay, we took it out. Okay. So now what if we had borrowed that instead of taking it out? Wouldn't we be better off? Yes. Then we would have the 81, right? We would. But that was a motion on on town meeting that that allocated that 81,000 for free capture. It's kind
of like um we No, no, no. But it to your creative, we need to check. We need to we can maybe go back and ask the um they're still going to
get paid. I mean, you know, it it is, but we can go back and and and and ask uh town council. Is it possible to have another warrant article on the special and to change the out to change to borrow from
to borrow rather than give us it would give us a little Yeah. So in your in your I see what you're saying. Yeah. Can it can something like that happen? I don't know. Um but it but trying to just build on your creative creative
financing. Yeah. That's Yeah. Well, and then there's the other thing that we brought up and got the big don't worry about it till it happens answer when we said if there's going to be any tariffs that are going to come on those two fire trucks, where are we going to pull that money out of? Exactly. Yes. So we're supposed to wait until it happens and
then what? and and then do the same. Well, I thought that the 80,000 because we were um paying it was before the tariffs. Before the tariffs yet, that one may be the 81,000 does not
include possible tariffs. No, that that one doesn't. But based on Well, we're getting before those tariffs come in. It doesn't matter. The tariffs are already in place right now. You got to pay. So, but going back to the timing of of that, they said all the parts were already in
the United States in Minnesota where they were going to assemble it. So, there wouldn't be. So, they business information from the same company that said that it was going to cost 800,000 and then they popped 81 grand on. Okay. So we believe that and
and you know the people that that told us this information I have not talked directly to the manufacturer but the second truck is a later delivery may have that tariff issue. So but it
doesn't matter which one. What do we do? We're going to have to go to street. That's is that for all the truck? I thought we already bought for the truck. So you're saying to add the 81 to the 81 is to the what we owe we have to do
another borrow another borrow because we borrow the original supplemental amount right yeah I think that makes perfect sense but now the other part is we're also in the
upcoming borrowing the money for the truck for highway department now because it was going to be used out of free cash but now and and or it was going to move from free cash into capital stabilization and then capital stabilization was going to pay for the
truck. Now there's no free cash to put into capital stabilization to pay for that truck. So now that truck is going to be financed, the highway the highway truck. Yeah. Well, we certainly need that. So, so now now we have to
work with the treasurer to find out what this is all going to be and the impact on what is the long-term debt going to be. Is is it going to hit FY26 and is that number going to change? Oh, in are we limited how much a town can carry for
debt? Is there a debt ratio that the town it what happens is it comes out of the tax levy for next year. It doesn't show up so much like in the budget, but the amount that's available in your tax levy is just going to squeeze the town
to where our budget will have to actually go down. The two and a half% raising the budget is is a fallacy. It's that's completely not should not be even mentioned because when you start the more our borrowing is
really out of control. Um we're really cutting into our tax levy every time somebody mentions borrowing. I'm I'm not sure that borrowing for anything right now this year is a good idea. And it really frightens me the amount of money that you guys have um on the agenda or
the selectman put on the or capital planning put on the agenda um because our our tax levy number, the starting point for the budget for next year is drastically impacted and to keep adding
money to the debt load is going to really squeeze us pretty badly. We're not to the point of losing our bond rating, but that increases the interest. Um, but I I think we're we're our tax levy is really squeezed because we just don't have the new growth. You're not going to see with all the rate,
especially with school budgets going up, the the squeeze is on very tight right now. And this is part of the problem that we're having. we if we borrow and increase that those long-term debts, it's kind of like you it it may look
like you can buy more, but you're paying interest on everything. So, going back to Jerry's fire, what happens to the two trucks that are being replaced? Do do they get sold and we can pop that in? Um, it's 50,000. Yeah, you can put them
on list and try to sell them. Do we do that? I mean, as far as I know, we've done it in the past. I thought he did he say that at one of the meetings the chief there um say something about selling the price. He what he said was
um what did he say? He said he would uh include everything that went with the truck. So, in order to get a higher price for a drug, but I think that's what we should look into. And maybe maybe Gary does do that. I don't know. It probably does, but you got to
remember if you sell that if you sell the truck this year, if you sell the truck, let's say you sell the truck in June, the money for that truck is not going to be available until free cash is certified in December. If you sell the truck in August, the money for that
would not be certified in free cash until the following December, right? Cuz I mean, any sales you make, that money gets has to get certified in free cash. Where does that money go to if if we do sell a truck like that? Does it go back to the fire department or does it go back? It would go in I would think it
would go in free cash which would be fun. Yeah, it's kind of like to be certified for the free cash. And what about the 250,000 that we got from the collaboration on the um I have not looked at the
the town when the show closed. Oh yeah. several towns that money. I heard that we had that I believe and I believe two weeks ago the selectman had it as a I have not watched the How much was it? 250,000
really. Isn't that our problem? Yeah. Doesn't that take care of everything? Well, not everything. But yeah, but again Oh, yeah, it does actually. Right. Because if we get rid of Yeah. Or we could make the budget balance if we have that 15,000 right
here. I we have to go back and and visit the what the select you the select board has voted um with that money where I believe what are they going to tell us though you know well it was in their open meeting you you just have to watch the
agendas and and hit them but when did we just become and I don't want to be told I have to sit and watch videos no I don't but I sat and watched I don't know told that by the way but I sat and
watched one of those collecting videos. I almost had to blow my brakes out. Well, no. You know, the thing is I now I've been on several finance boards. This is not my first rodeo. And usually what
happens is the town really wants to hear how finance feels. I don't know the town people tell me they want to they want to hear what your finance committee I don't think that's true here you don't
think the people want to hear what we have to say I don't I think they'd like to hear what we have to say but I don't think our other portion of oh you're talking about the selectman not wanting us to make recommendations I believe 100% we make recommendations but I
really think that um we should have a stronger voice of what we do have. Well, we were told at the last meeting, if you remember, that would be me that I was too critical of it. Well, not only that, you were told that it was their meeting and not and it's their budget. So, it's
not the town budget, it's the boardman budget according to the board of select. That might change things because if it's their budget, maybe the town people don't have to know about their budget, right? But, but if it's a town budget,
it's the town should know about it. into the town. They made it abundantly clear that it is the voice. They told us that. Yes, they do several times. We have we our voice. Well, I mean, you
see the signs. I do see the signs. Yeah. I think whoever put those together watches these meetings probably. And again, I think people the the idea of of what makes up the 625 for
the override needs to be identified. Um and again, it would be nice. Exactly. You know, but and I don't know that it it's not any individual specific lines. It's the overall budget. It's all the
lines aggregated together come to the 28 28 million and change. and and the revenues only come to 27 million and change. And so the difference is the six the 640. So so
it's not any individual revenue line or any individual line item in the budget that creates the number that creates the number. It's everything to get it. It's the total. But the fiscal responsibility comes by looking at each of those individual items and saying what is
necessary, what isn't at this time. And the to your other point last meeting, how do we create new revenue? You know, the negative versus positive. What are they doing about that? I mean, that's not our job, is it? No, we're not
economic development. Maybe that would be something that I think they just tied um what is it? DTA or a DTA P. Yeah. for the MR of those initi. So they're going to
do some the grant that that's when you get a grant they're the people grant to get more money more things that we don't maintain. This is so it's got one for economic development. So they're supposed to be I think starting soon to
come up with an economic development plan to cost us anything. Well, as far as I know it's a grant. So, um, yeah, but it it still, right? Not $100,000, right? Well, they did that
last year with our money. I mean, it's still your tax dollars, but but the cost of the town is through the grant. So, um, um, so it's a study. It's a study. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. But yeah, you'll
get a report at the end. It's what they came up with. It's been a few years, but we we did in the master plan um go out and we hired a consultant to do the economic development second. But the other thing is but we don't
implement anything, right? You know, we say that's what we want and then okay, but but that's the piece. It's it's kind of like so we can we can look and see it's been probably 5 years. We have no we have no vehicle to get there. Right. Right. Right. It's it's just like
whatever for the federal government. You had to do a plan or report and it sat on the shelf until the IG came and it was supposed to be updated every so often and nobody ever looked at it. And look and then the IG came and everybody's like scattering to the wind. Oh my god,
we haven't updated that plate in 10 years, you know. And look what happened recently. It's all gone now. All the departments. Okay. So, we we're just going No, but the fire I think the fire issue is important. I I I think we
should Well, I think we could look at I mean, nobody wants to borrow money. However, sometimes you have to, right? But I also think that and you don't want to borrow money to pay snow and ice. No, I understand that. But I think that when you talk about cuts, I
don't think anything I I think the most irresponsible statement I've heard so far is no cuts to X, Y, and Z without even seeing the budgets cuz that happened before we even had the meeting, right? And to not know what you're
saying no to is Yeah. I mean, in that I don't have a problem with the borrowing. It's just I don't know if there's like a limit to what the town can, you know, borrow. When you start borrowing and you have the large amount of debt, um it gets to the bond rating
and and then you pay more. Yes. But they don't like you not to borrow either. They like you. Oh yeah. Well, yeah. So then that comes the part where you have to have the money to pay it, right? And if you don't have that, right? And and you don't pay then a whole other consequence happens. Yeah.
or you pay it and the this piece of the file puzzle that's being paid gets bigger and bigger which means the other piece has to get smaller and smaller like reducing the government itself and where oh I think we were talking about
reducing the government a little while ago maybe wouldn't we could you know paid off in a year or two or two Okay. The payments wouldn't be that big then. No, they really No,
they should. No, they and Melissa gave us the little piece. She kind of said that that was really the way to go. She did say that the meeting. Yeah, right. Borrow the borrow. Yeah, I think she did. But I didn't know if she was going
to bundle it with something else because you can take that 80,000 bundle. Well, maybe she was going to bundle it with a, you know, these pickup truck, whatever it was. Well, the the highway truck wasn't on the table at that point. I don't know. Was that capital plan? I don't even know what's
happening. Yeah. Are we going to have another meeting after the chaos meeting? Um, we probably should. Yeah, we probably should after the When do we think we we
can meet again? When Yeah. When do we want? Well, we probably need to discuss the follow from the override that does pass. I think we should probably have the meeting at the town's house in the bar. That would that would work for me. Well, it probably doesn't work for the
open meeting. Probably not. We could call a meeting. Why can't we call a meeting? Do we have to call a meeting in room two all the time? No. Because But it has to be recorded in Oh, you can record it at the townhouse. Oh, yeah. We
don't need your brother. You're remote. The remote meetings have been remote only meetings have been extended to 2027. Thank you, Lord. So, um, hybrid meetings were always going to be allowed, but it's kind of like remote meeting, fully
remote meetings are still have have been extended. They were signed by the government. Um, so that's that's all good to keep tabs on for that. But I I was just looking at this and we have the Do we want to meet after um the
budget presentation and before the vote or we going to Well, no. I think we should and I I think we should meet after the bud presentation before the April 28th meeting or whatever day it is. Yep. And I think we should solidify what our recommendations are to the town
so that we can get up and present them. So that' be next Tuesday. Next Tuesday the 22nd, right? Next Tuesday the 22nd if that works for everybody or our normal day. We've been meeting on Tuesdays. Yeah, Tuesday is usually um I
don't have to drive kids around Tuesday. I don't know why. Um so next Tuesday I I will reach out to Tam and see what time is it going to be? Um is the seven better or six is better? I
think because then it only goes tonight to get Exactly. Yeah. I have steak them waiting for me. Okay. Oh, well, hey, thanks for inviting us on. I didn't he took a slice off the horse.
Oh, you haven't had anything until you had horses. Delicious. Even the McDonald's. I hate it. Okay, we're here. Yeah, we're getting away. I would make a motion that we
adjourn at at what is it? 9:00 p.m. Um, April, what is the next one? I'll second. Okay, we have a motion to adjourn in a second. All in favor? I I I
All right.