Um, good afternoon everybody. Mary Jane Churchfield, chair of the historic district commission. I'd like to call the meeting to order at 3011 this afternoon. And I would like a roll call, please. >> Maria Milik.
>> Okay. >> Kathleen present. >> Present. Lean present. >> Do we have a >> one two? Okay. No, without we have a quorum. >> All right, so we have a quorum. We'll
continue with the business. Um, we are being recorded. Is anybody else recording us? >> No. Hearing nothing. >> Okay. So, I just I'm sorry that I didn't get the minutes. It's been one heck of a
week. So, I had them printed and gave to everybody that the meeting was called. at 3:00 on Thursday the 12th. The present members were Gerald Mazikas,
Cla Cowpie, James Doryan, Kathy Scoffford, Laura Shiffren, and myself. You were absent that time >> and we had guests. We had Tiffany Iona and Johnny the Silva and Alisa Strugs. Tiffany owns the property that burnt on
Main Street and that was her architect. Um, we did accept the No, we did not accept I got to give you January a minute. I owe you January. And then we had a discussion with Tiffany and Johnny about their concern about following the
process with HTC for a rebuild on our property. It's pretty extensive. No votes were taken on that. And then we announced the public hearing that we were going to have the UPS sign. Um, and
We also discussed the article at town meeting, but I didn't get it to Adam, so it's not going to go on this report. This was for the amendment on by law. >> You remember that? >> Mhm. >> Good. Thanks, Marine. >> I
was that we had to amend it from 40 C to 40. >> Oh, yeah. >> To correct the language. So, I I just want Adam to make the language for us. >> Right. Did you give it to Select for a placer of like a place? >> Do that first. Oh, how do I do that?
>> Just um I'll let them know that you you should email them that you want a placeholder for um >> placeholder. That's what it's called. >> Yeah, because the warrants I mean the warrant was closed. >> No, I know. But not for the special
within the annual, right? Was that closed also? I don't think so >> because that usually stays open longer. >> Yes. >> Sabrina Sabrina >> that you need something to be I guess it
could go on the special amendment. >> Yeah, everything's >> I mean this is small enough I think that it should be okay. >> Okay. And then who sent it to Adam? Do I send it to Adam or does Sabrina? >> No, Sabrina. So I'll ask her to forward a tab
>> for the right language. >> Yeah, he because he reviews all the Warren articles anyway. >> So if you have it the way you think it should be, send it to Sabrina. >> Okay. >> Tell her you need this on the special
town meeting and Adam looks at all of them. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> She doesn't just look at yours specifically. Look at all of them. >> All right. So she'll know that. But I'll just I'll put it that way. Um and that was passed by unanimous vote by the way. >> Well, I made a second on that.
>> Yes, Laura. I don't remember. >> Well, I remembered it after saying about >> and then we had a discussion on uh guess what everybody the fines again. I thought we did very well though because we did talk to Melissa about where the money went that we if we were to get any
and it goes to the general fund and that will be certified for cash which is a good thing. So then we also discussed types of offenses ranging from a resident unaware of the HTC rules to residents not making
an application and residents failure to follow order of conditions on approved application. Those are the three categories that we agreed on. We didn't take any votes on any of this because we're still in discussion. And then we tabled the postcards ran
until you were ready. >> Okay. I do have a sample. He's not on our agenda. Um, it would have to be. >> Yes. >> So, next month, I hope. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. >> No, forgot. But yeah, I did. We didn't want to do it without you because you were the one.
>> I have it drafted. Yeah. Just read. So, I'll put it on for April and then you bring it >> and then Sam if I'm if I'm allowed to. We just can't respond to you saying, "Oh, we don't want this."
>> No. No. Yeah. >> Emailing all of us. It should be blind copied. >> Yeah. >> I'm starting to have me send to me. >> Yeah. >> And you know, and then nobody gets caught or
>> Well, you send it to yourself. >> Yeah. BCC is >> and then BCC everybody else. Yeah. >> Um I have a question though because I was wondering about um a photograph of like a historic property in town that we could use in the background.
>> Oh yeah, we have plenty of those since they're historic. >> So am I allowed to say can someone give me a picture? >> Oh um >> well no I'll bring pictures the next time. Just >> it'd be better digital digital copy. >> Okay. Yeah.
>> Cuz I have it online. It's not a print. Um, I'd love a nice pretty picture of whatever building to have in the background. You know what I mean? >> Yeah, I do. I understand. I'll just bring >> Can you just email Can you email that to her though? She can do like a >> Yeah, she can do whatever she wants and
then >> Okay. >> You can bring a whole bunch if you if there's something that you want the board to vote on as I >> sle for sample >> and then we'll use let's bring in a variety to decide what to use. That
would add a little special touch to it. Yes, it would. Good idea. >> Yeah, people might take more notice. >> Yeah, >> definitely. HDC. Uh, so then a motion was made again by James Doryan and seconded by Laura Shifflin to adjourn the meeting.
>> Well, not yet. >> Um, do we have to have a motion? >> Yes, we do. I'll make a motion to accept the minutes. >> Maria Laura Shipper and I second the motion to accept the minutes. >> Any discuss
any discussion on these minutes? >> I want to ask what date James is on. >> February 12th. >> Yeah, >> this is February 12th, but we didn't do January yet. >> Okay. Again, mixed up because 26 was the um UPS meeting. We had two meetings in
February, >> right? >> Yeah. So, this is the first meeting. This is So, and that's another question I had. >> Do I have to do meeting minutes for the public hearing and then they get accepted at the next
>> Oh, and not at the next public hearing. >> Yeah. I wanted Okay. >> Did you have another question, Claire? >> No. So, would that have been today meeting? I would have should I should have had them. >> So So for next month it's January
>> and public hearing in February >> February >> public hearing >> for the next meeting agenda >> and >> was the up wasn't that contractor going to give you a mockup of what's
withdraw? Did they withdraw? I haven't heard they was true. They sent me nothing. Nothing. >> Yeah. He was supposed to send you a sample what it would look like. Like lit, >> right? That's what I said on the on the
on the agenda. It says if we have >> Oh, it may just be a hold up. Then I did hear on the committee meeting. >> Withdraw the application. >> Maybe they withdrew the original application and they're going to resubmit it.
I think so. I don't think it's dead. >> Don't you think they would have told me? They've been very communicative. They decided their assistant is very communicative. Well, she was. >> I'll reach out. >> Remind me. We held the public hearing for their sign. Correct.
>> Aren't you there? >> I don't think I wasn't here. >> Oh, you weren't many of us. It was a small group. >> It was not anybody came. Not one pub. >> Yeah, cuz Jim wasn't here. >> James was not here for sure.
>> Susan wasn't here. >> Someone was on the Zoom. >> The architect. Yeah, the sign. >> Yeah, Ryan. >> Yeah. >> Um
I thought we was more 26. Christ. >> Oh, >> is this I had a packed day, but I didn't see HTC. Okay. There was very few people, but we had a qu for quum because we had Gerald and Claire, myself, and
you and you were here also. So, we had a quorum, but no public showed up. >> Okay. >> All right. So, any further discussion on accepting the minutes? I guess not. Can I please open?
>> Yeah, I don't need to vote because I believe >> Mary and alternate. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Excuse me. If we if we had something that needed um
a majority vote or a full board vote and there's differently different things >> then you could appoint and you knew that was happening like for the public hearing she could have >> appointed you at the beginning of the meeting. >> Okay. >> Okay. Before it started and then she
would be allowed to vote. If you don't have your full board there, you have an alternate you could put in for that purpose. >> Even if there's a quorum, >> yes, if it's a public hearing that's going to have a vote, >> you the chair could appoint an alternate
if you don't have your full board here. Gotcha. >> Okay, good to know. >> Yeah, I didn't realize that. >> Yeah, that's good to know. >> And Harrison might be able to tell you that or >> Yeah, but I don't know. >> Well, you made it pretty >> well. That would be clear to me. Yeah, the process for getting things put on
the agenda, like asking for things to be added, >> just ask the chair to ask me do whatever it might be. >> Yeah, I just thought I could share the um uh community preservation commission. I was remissed because I wanted to do that and I was remiss on putting it.
>> They recorded it. Oh, you mean to have me give you guys an update? >> Yeah, just a little. >> Yeah, next month. Do you want to talk about that one, too? >> Because I think we should know what that's all about. >> Yeah. I'd be happy. >> Everybody's getting ready to spend the money. >> Yeah. >> There is no
>> Well, actually, yeah. Yeah. It takes a while to get to it. >> And it's a whole process which I will let you >> Yeah. In the first year, we get to spend double two years worth of money. >> Yeah. >> So, this will be interesting. So, if you'd have a president, so it's going to be about you over the next.
>> Yeah. Very exciting. Good energy. It's good people. >> That's good. Yeah. Okay. So, I guess we're not going to be able to do anything with the outside because they're not they didn't send me a revised plan. >> Yeah. >> So, we're on hold. So, I'm going to table it. >> Okay.
>> I don't need a vote to table it, do I? Well, we can't do anything anyway. It doesn't matter. >> There's nothing on the table. >> There's nothing on. >> Okay. Do we want to discuss the fines again? I I would like a recap. I don't have any information. So,
>> okay. So, at the last meet, well, this has been going on for like ever. >> Mhm. >> Lori said a year, but it's been way more than that, right? >> Well, nine nine years. >> So, what what you haven't been on for 9 or 10? >> No, no, but I remember it from our first meeting. From our first meeting. So, the
the situation is that we have repeat offenders and we have people who refuse to follow the rules and we have people who don't know the rules. Mhm. So we decided that we want to institute fines because we think it will bring us more
credibility or seriousness. >> More visibility. Visibility. >> Yeah. >> You and I were both introduced as commissioners at the October 23rd, 2020 meeting of the historic district
commission. >> 2020. You just found that >> 2024. >> Oh, 24. >> Yes, I have I have something that said historic district commission and I put it in my folder.
>> So, here it is. >> This one. >> Oh my word. >> Now I know when I started. Yeah, this is good. This is something.
>> I know. We need find something like that. >> You come. >> Sorry. >> Okay, come on in. You can sit next to Laura's friend. >> So, what' you come up with bird? >> So, yeah. Well, okay. Um on a recap,
James, we are recaping the fines again 50 miles. >> So I know nothing. >> No, no, you're Maria doesn't know wants to be updated because she wasn't here. So essentially
we created three categories. One was the I don't know I didn't know anything about this but unaware and I think that that happens. Correct. And then she's talking. >> The second one is the >> I don't know
>> the the resident who does not apply for the application. So ignore they know but they ignore not making an application and then >> not following the >> right. And the third one was we've granted an application but they haven't complied.
>> Those are the three not correct by the three kids. Then we decided that the first time the unaware person the first time would get a warning. There was no sense in charging somebody who really doesn't know cuz we're not going to be
mean hospital. So So they would receive a warning and then they would have to put in an application and it would go to the board and we make a decision. the decision meaning a waiver. That's only if they were unaware. That's only if they were unaware.
>> Unaware. So not first offense in general. >> Well, that's a good >> Well, I said unaware, but not first defense. No, it's not a first offense.
>> If you know and you No, if you know. Okay, wait a minute. Now I'm making up Sorry. That's okay. So, if you're unaware, it'll be your first offense. >> Correct. >> Because, >> well, if they lie,
>> right? >> Well, you know how long they've been here? >> They can do that. >> They've been here two or three years. They've been exposed to it. >> Well, they're going to know soon cuz we're going to send a postcard. >> Correct. So, there'll be no unawareness. >> Okay. Hopefully, unless they don't read their mail,
>> unless they're new residents. Correct. >> That's acceptable. >> Okay. So they got to be within six months. >> So they get a free ticket, get out of fine, jail sign, whatever. >> So if you send them a warning, >> how much time do you give them to apply?
Because then you come down to the next one that the resident doesn't apply, >> but at that point they're aware >> go through the process within 30 days. >> 30 days for them to permit an application.
>> That's fair. say that in the warning you have 30 days. >> Correct. >> You have to have some time to be able to get them to the table. >> 7 days or 10 days or 3 days if you can. I think that's >> more than enough. >> Yeah, I think that's good. And we can
always explain that. >> So that would be the first tier if you will. >> Then the second tier is they knew and they just didn't come for an application. Mhm. >> So we were trying to establish
first time. No, they didn't come. We cited them. They had 30 days to fix it and they didn't fix it. That that was the second tier. >> Mhm. The the money part we didn't really settle on, did we? Because we talked
about everywhere from $25 to $2,500. Did we go to other towns asking because I remember there was discussion about asking Pepro what they >> I didn't make it to any other towns. I figured somebody online. >> I looked on the website and they're not online but CLA said that it's at our
discretion and I think she's right at your discretion. I don't think it matters what the other towns do. I'm going by what the judge >> Oh, told you. >> Oh, he he issued to the uh
guilty party was $150 a day. >> Oh, yeah. That makes sense. Usually when I $150 a day, you must have already had gone through the whole process. You were in court. They were in court. >> You were warned. You were told this and this and that. and they got to the point
where they did not want to even work in compliance and they were brought in front of the master. >> Yeah. >> I don't like the daily fine idea. Is that what you're leaning toward? Well, >> if it's a bing issue or a conservation issue, I believe it's a daily fine,
>> especially on a conservation issue. It's actually a seasonally dangerous dangerous >> fine every day. And that's what we're leaning towards. >> And fine can be pretty devastating.
Let's all keep in mind what $150 a day within a week with him in with two weeks and 30 days. >> So really what you're going to get >> their attention quick. >> They're going to they're going to comply. >> Simple as that. That's why we end up
doing >> it in that format in conservation cuz we have situations that it can't sit there. They're environmental correct issues. So it's different. This issue is
temperament work with you know why would it get to a point where some was being fined $150 a day in a historical problem. >> Yeah. Well, I mean such. >> No, I know. But but the historic that's
because of Fort Towny hasn't really paid a lot of attention to it. But if you go to other communities, they are strict strict strict about it. I mean, in every relationship, >> well, you don't even have to go that far. I mean, you have got right down the street.
>> God said you had to paint your house white. Remember that this >> be Yeah. Right. Exactly. So, I think that if you're going to take it seriously and you really want to preserve your historic districts, then I
think you do have to damp it down like this. Unfortunately, >> yeah. >> I mean, I don't know. Laura, maybe you can answer this question. Are there buyers that want to be in a historic district because they love historic housing? >> Do Yeah.
>> I mean, the one that bought um Mr. 's house. >> Oh, >> definitely >> wanted to be definitely >> Mr. D's house >> across from where the forens live. >> Yeah.
>> Philadelphia from the the settle shop. What's the settle shop now? Not the gift shop, but the settle shop across and a little this way. >> Yeah. >> The brick end. Brick end. >> Yeah. >> 410, I think, might be. >> Okay. That's something. Yeah.
>> Oh my gosh. Well, he they had to come in front of um board of health when I the board of health. >> So, do you like 150? Maria doesn't like a day. >> I don't like the day. I'm sorry. I just thought I sticking to my guns where I
first came up with first offense, second offense, third offense. Fine. >> Oh, okay. >> So, this is under the second tier where you didn't file for an application. So, you wanted to >> This just an idea. First time you do it. >> First offense, second offense, third
offense. So, it'll be a flat fee. >> It's like a DUI. >> I guess I never had one. I don't know. >> Well, that's good. >> I mean, that's what they say. One, two, three, license >> and then you're out. >> Yeah. >> Um, so, all right. So, that's one choice. Here we have the f first.
>> So, on your first offense, are you saying that it would be $150? >> Yeah, whatever. Correct. Whatever number we pick. So be a flat sign with a time period to apply the question.
>> Got to give them an opportunity to defend themselves. >> Mhm. And then >> 30day, but then I don't know about that for the people who knew about it but didn't apply. >> Right. >> I think I think you have to treat them all the same.
>> Okay. If it's the first offense, it's the first offense whether they knew or they didn't know or I mean >> that would be a warning. >> Yeah, I like that. >> I like that. No matter who you are, >> no matter who you are or do you find them and then let them come in and
explain, you know, I'm sorry I just moved to town. I bought my house 3 months ago. I didn't realize this or >> know that about it and see when they bought the house. Yeah, >> there's people I know there's people in town that do not know they're in a
historic and they've been here for a while. We ab that we >> they just don't have no have not had any reason to come before us. So never thought >> right >> and we don't have signs either. Didn't we talk about the signs for the historic
district and it got voted down? That's something that the I talk about it next month, but the CPC can help us pay fund money to put up signs that historic properties of people that want them. >> Oh, right. No, that this is separate.
I'm talking about when you enter >> district one, there's a sign says you're entering district one towns. And I mean, >> but I mean the CPC could help us pay for that is my point. >> A sign. >> We could ask them for that to help >> help us do that. It's like a lot of
times like just I'll speak in regards of agriculture. We have a right to farm by law in towns and so that's why a lot of towns take that pride in putting winch in. We have a right to farm by law. Yes. So I mean that's like Lion's Club coming
into the town. >> Maybe a little bit more exposure to people understand. >> You have to have purple heart community and then we have those. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Absolutely. I would really like to see size for each district >> in a tasteful sense.
>> Yes, very much. Small something has a nice one, but it's elaborate. There's going to be a decent amount of money and we're one of the four areas to spend money >> the available finances are >> and we're one >> what are the other three
housing >> recreation and one more >> there is four >> I think there's >> affordable housing >> recreation and oh >> I think conservation >> we have a a Oh, that's right. You're on
the board, right? >> They say I know I'm saying that. >> So, we like warning for everybody first time. Is that what we're saying here? What's up? We want a warning first time for everybody. >> Good evening. Okay.
>> Isn't that usually the best way to deal with our talent? I I You guys have sufficed so long without having any type of >> Do you foresee issues coming? What is this one with structure? >> Yeah. Yeah. Now,
>> um >> we >> the board um one is clearly next door which is now closed and has more sides than >> Oh, yeah. >> the rest of the town does. >> Yeah. Let's face Honeyland. >> So, in other words, we're looking at
some issues with advertising. at two different stores in town or are two >> different stores >> issues in front of us? >> No, not yet. I no >> say not yet. Ongoing because we have
given both of those sites warning. Not warnings, but notice that they're in violation. >> So, in other words, that sign out in front of Sunny's at the bookstore, the seller sign, that should not be there. >> He's closed now. Should be nothing. Oh, that's another long
>> and that would be a situation where there would be a potential fine. >> Absolutely. And he's been warned. >> You you guys have repeatedly approach Sunny on that. >> Mhm. >> We had the the building inspector did too. >> Eric Chartran and so did um Inspector
Garcia. He also >> sold twice. >> Yeah. So, >> and he's closed now. The store is closed. >> Somebody told me since Christmas. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> So, so we wanted Then if they ignore our warning, we're
giving them a warning with a 30-day fix. Okay. Then if they ignore us again, we're going to jump to 150. >> Mhm. >> And as an intro fine, just >> Yeah.
>> Warning, we're going to go to $150 fine >> with a with a 7-day compliance. The warning is a 30-day to comply. Correct. And if they don't >> after that, find them whenever you want.
>> They got 30 days. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. Don't give them another seven day. Okay. I understand. Okay. >> Okay. Now, she's right. >> Talk to us to come forward and they make an attempt.
>> That's different. >> Right. Right. >> Right. because then we'll hang. >> We'll have a meeting with them and we'll work it out. So, it's >> we meet monthly. So, that's within a 30-day period >> and they'll know they'll know the date.
Yeah. Okay. And then I don't know if we need a third offense because one or two. I mean, you're either getting a warning and you're fixing it or you got a warning and you didn't fix it and now you're in front of the board.
That takes you. That's it. So then on the next part, do we have to discuss when do we when's the threshold that we take them to court or do we just
put it on the taxes like the water did? >> I don't think you can lean. >> You got to go to court first to lean. Does the water department go first? >> Are you talking to mechanics lean? >> No, no, no, no. Not a mechanics. Um, they can't pay. It's no work.
>> The water department doesn't they lean for what's owed because it's a municipal >> um income. Yeah. Utility, whatever. >> But they don't automatically >> um
they give them a a lot of leeway >> is what I'm hurt because I I asked the question. They give them a lot of leeway because it's more trouble to actually do the lean and go through the process. >> Yes. >> So they give them a lot of leeway and
then once it hits that threshold they lean it. >> Do they have to go through court or tell them >> get the lean or they have counsel? So I don't know that's separate from town council that does that. What does a lean
mean? >> Against their home. >> Oh yeah. >> Municipal leans. >> So this would be considered a municipal lean. >> Yeah. When you see um like we just went through town properties with the >> Yeah.
>> You know tax taking. >> Okay. That's this is municipal. So I wouldn't have to find out how a judgment gets on it. Should we know this now? >> Yeah. Rather, I'm waiting until the shoe
falls. >> So, >> I think we're ready to take a motion on this. >> Yeah. What about if they >> If someone comes in Okay. Um, somebody comes in and has an application and it's been approved, but then they go and do
their own thing. I mean, didn't you have that happen? Not that long ago. >> And they do their own thing. So what happens in that case >> that to me is >> what was the circumstance? >> Yeah, enlighten me. It's good to hear an example to understand what did happen in the west side. >> Do you remember?
>> Yeah. >> Mle whenever. Yeah. She was at the barn, >> the red house. >> Yeah. Yeah. Red. Yeah. Okay. >> What happened? She had um he bought the propert. She bought the property and she
went on her merry way taking things down. She wanted to take the barn down and she wanted to put a deck on the property and lower the barn and it was something else too. Oh, she wanted to put a deck around the
side of the house. So she wanted to deck and get rid of the bar and she was starting to do it and she was stopped in process because Lisa Sts was the chair at the time and we found out about it and and Eric Shan was the building
inspector and he worked very closely with the board. >> So she refused to do what we told her to go through the application. >> Right. She's about ready to you know bang Dr. barn down and Eric showed up at her house in prison.
So then we were then she came to the table and >> she was black through the building department to comment anyway that she was historic. So she knew, right? >> She absolutely knew and she we must have had five or six meetings with her. She >> Well, wasn't she a real estate agent?
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So she had nowhere to go. >> Okay. >> And fair enough. >> Um so he fled to put a cease and desist on it. Meanwhile, we insisted that she give us a inspection, an engineer's inspection on the barn to see if it
could be saved or if it was really >> structurally if it was structurally a mess. And it came back that it was structurally sound. It just needed to be shored up or >> some other kind of thing. So, she did it. I mean, she was reluctant, but in the end, she did everything she would.
No deck. She did fix the barn and and the place looks really nice by the way from the outside. >> Holding her feet to the fire. to me that was of a worthy cause. >> Well, she had to deal with she didn't >> due to what she actually would have
devalued her property in ever trying to sell it because it wasn't in compliance. >> So, would it come off for historic? >> Would a property come off of the historic like the map? They can't without a town vote, right?
>> No. Right. when you're in it's like trying to take the house of out of town. It it's deemed it is to be >> when they establish a district, people can ask at the town meeting to be removed um from the district.
>> So, it may be a historic district, but that property I know cuz I've listed those types where the people the owner went and said, "I don't want to be in the district, so take me off your list." period of past some established. Yeah.
Now, if you're going to recreate one, if you wanted differences, a new district, >> extend it. >> Yeah. >> So, um so what would you do in the case of that where she did not? >> Oh, we would have if we had the fines in place, we would have placed them
immediately and I'm sure it would have happened within 24 hours. >> But should in a case like that, should it be a daily fine? >> Yes. Yes. because it's so blatant >> and you know it is blatant and that's what we had talked about this last week too last month because there are certain times I think when people like don't
know because they're unaware they and then there's the guy who is not a construction person or in the no real estate wise who you still have to worry with them but she had all the boxes checked. >> Yeah. >> You know she was flipping so she didn't
care. She was a real estate agent so she didn't care. Yeah. She wanted that flipped within six weeks. >> Oh, yeah. >> She'd be gone out of town. She did not want to stay around. >> She was from Winchester. >> Yeah. >> Did So, she's no longer the owner.
>> No, no, no. Oh, no. It was sold in the interim. >> That That roll quick. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And like Lori, you know, the real estate game deferred to pulling that barn down, which I know the bones were good in it. That's my old playground.
They would have lost immensely to the world of that house. And >> it was a good thing because look, are you familiar with the that particular house >> from where it was is to where it is now? >> Oh, yeah. >> It shows you that this commission does do good stuff.
>> I'm so curious about the house that burned. You said there's a lot of problems. >> No, they came in. >> No, they came in. They wanted to know what these ones are like the best of all people. Please tell me what I have to do before we do it so we can do it right. >> Oh, good. And then it's like, do you
want wood or can we use vinyl? And it's like, if you want wood, then we'll do wood. >> They were very, really good. They just want to get it built back, I think. >> Oh, of course. >> It looks terrible >> cuz they really started on the rear and getting it >> and they were like hoping me in there
for the, you know, definitely historic. >> Did I say something? And I kind of bit my tongue at the meeting. when that house had burnt and I was it was brought to my attention that it's it's going to be a full reconstruction would she have come in front of the
board to say since this is a complete rebuild new foundation could she have not changed some of how that existing building design sits >> from the inside she could print the same
>> so you're The full foundation footprint has the same that the exterior form in construction has to say stay the same. >> How is it going to still be a historic property if it's brand new? I'm very confused.
>> No, no, no. So, it's Yes, it's brand new, but you use historic >> architectural materials, architectural design. >> That's going to cost a lot of money. >> There's no such thing as historical architectural material. going to be
today on the bottom. >> I understand that. I understand. My question was >> since it is a complete rebuild, >> wouldn't it been to her, right? To if it was me, I would have come in front of
these people with a a design of the building to my liking, to my footprint of the new construction. That house is gone. It is no longer historic has been burnt and taken away from us.
>> She should have been allowed to rebuild >> to her choice of design that mirrors and does become acceptable to the historical society. >> Done that. She could have done that. I get I hear where you're going on this. For example, >> good if she's willing to do all this
stuff. >> Yeah, I was going to say um >> she must have had good decent insurance. You have to have >> special historic. >> Yeah. Like flood insurance. Is it special insurance? >> No, it would just be the replacement
cost value that would go up if it's a historic. >> Well, yeah, I suppose that's >> that's you know that because you're looking at cost to rebuild >> as higher. >> Yes. And if you look at your assessment, >> if you went outside of that, it would
cost more because it's not the same thing. >> Yeah. Like if you did >> they ended up on a house on Highland Street and it was never really finished. >> Oh, really? >> Because it was a ranch and it burnt and they went two stories thinking insurance would pay for it but >> Oh, they that's not how it works. So,
but on your assessment and all that >> on your card I don't have my cards, but on your assessment card it says if you're a historic house or not. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And your insurance company should know that and they should take that into
consideration when they come up with the replacement cost value >> because every different mine 1,100. I thought to myself, yes, let's have a fire. And then I looked at it and I said it's brick. >> That wouldn't work. But yeah, it'd be
nice if she could have made something bigger if she wanted to or >> But do you have I question have some >> Let me address Let me address that. >> I am going to say yes because remember it's a discussion among the board
member. >> Well, she she could not put a ranch house in lie of that historical. She would have to have presentations of something that depicts that period of
farmhouse design >> from the 1700s. >> So >> that was 1700s. >> Wow. No, wait. I'm sorry. Yeah, it was 1700 farmhouse for sure. >> Old house house.
>> Yes. And and the station was what? >> Still there, I think. Isn't the station in the >> garage? And that was 1800s. 1850s. Yeah. 1850s. So >> mid 18s mid. >> Yeah. When the railroad came. So she's
got an old farmhouse. There are I'm sure different old historic farm houses designs of which we would have talked about and allowed her to do. But I don't think she could have put a Victorian. >> Oh god. No. >> You know, or a gothic
>> or a colonial, >> you know, what do you call softball? >> I think she like I think she did like the house >> in the inside. I mean, she can make a beautiful new kitchen if she wants what she whatever she wants to do on the inside. >> But the point was that they wanted to
comply with what we could probably said anything. >> Yeah. >> I mean, she just wanted to do the right thing or whatever the rules were. >> It was nice to She was very very very >> We do have a lot of people like that. By the way, we had Jake Tart, remember him? >> Jake came in and he said, "What do I have to do?"
>> And he did it within minutes. Which house was was the church? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I got you. >> Y >> it was really good. I thought Donaldius was very very cooperative. >> Oh yeah.
>> The sign. I thought he was very cool. >> So >> that's interesting. The amount of money that you would be allotted if a house that was in historical state is going to cost that much more to reconstruct. >> Yeah. And most people, you know, if they don't know their home's in historic,
they're not paying attention. So that's a shame. Another reason you could even put that on the postcard. Make sure to double check the value of your home with your insurance. >> Yeah. That way. Yeah. Yeah, that is that's a good idea >> cuz my insurance company had to come up
do that review and look at it again due to and age and >> replacement as well as slate >> all the chimneys. >> Yeah, it's brutal. Yeah, it's brutal. Don't give me
>> a new thing is take your own pictures. >> Not every company. That's pretty brutal. >> I mean, are you kidding me? I got to call my niece. Don't take pictures for a while >> of my outs because they don't send people out anymore. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. They actually >> Yeah. My insurance pick up the pilot on that because my friend had to have a tree taken down out of her front yard because they said they weren't going to insure her anymore cuz it looked like it
was going to burn down in the house. Two years ago, >> they made me cut the big hickory in front of the house. >> Are you kidding me? >> There was the house. I could touch the house and touch the hickory tree. The insurance agents there. >> Can you see this? I can touch the house
and touch the tree. Don't you think that's a little close? Why are you asking me this question? I didn't plant it 150 years ago. >> Yeah. >> Well, I think we may have to show. >> But you have to pay to take it down. >> Oh, that's easy stuff to do. enjoy that.
>> Well, >> but I had to have somebody with a big piece cuz like the King boys go >> last year. >> You did too. >> Yeah. You had a drone taking the pictures. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's the the insurance companies
are very quick to drop you right now for the stupidest things. >> Yeah. They act like the whole history of insurance. >> Yeah. home owners for health. >> That tree didn't fall on anybody's house somehow.
>> Tree >> and they're getting better and better at what they're looking for. >> Oh yeah. >> She had to walk up onto the hill to look at the second floor. She goes, >> "I think you've got a rotted window sill up on the middle middle window." >> A bunch of
>> I did. I mean, I said to her, "But look at all the work that I've already done." Well, that was >> Well, you have a rotted windows. >> Yeah, sure. Okay, let's go. >> One more story. I had someone who replaced their roof. I took a picture. I went to the property, took the picture,
it to the Yes. I work at Murphy Insurance. Submitted it to the company saying, "Look, my client $30,000 new roof cuz you asked him to." >> Well, in the freaking picture that I took, they've now discovered another issue. They're like, "Oh, the foundation
needs to be fixed. I'm what? >> Yeah, it's Dave. >> And it's just like that. And you open the let it go. >> Bologoney. >> Cancelled. >> Yeah. And they don't even care. >> Oh, no. It's like
>> he was a 35y young line of boy was good to go to the >> matter. Don't care. >> They have no care. Well, >> I just got an email about my insurance. Yeah, >> go back. >> I think I already paid the premium, but
they're estimating something >> recommendations. They probably have some crap you have to fix. >> They'll give you 30 days to do it >> or they'll drop you. We can't drop people. We can't do a 30-day drop. Well, I mean, let's take Can I have a motion
to accept the um fines as said before that our first offense will be a warning with a 30-day compliance and a second offense will be a 150 redeem fine.
>> It's going to be an accumulating. >> Yes. Accumulating until >> and that's the last. This is like where I would send them with you and this is why we're doing it. >> Yes. And then would be a traditional
>> Well, do you set a point to that like up to 60 days of 150 a day and then do something? >> Yeah, you should put a ceiling on that. >> There there has be advantage on it.
And at that point we turn it over to the slugman who gives it to >> you. Adam was that >> um >> Oh, so so the municipal lawyer >> Yeah.
>> the town council >> he sets up the >> he sets the date. Oh, we don't go to and do it. Oh, okay. >> Well, yeah, >> we could. >> You want to be present? >> Yes. Don't we file our own and not have to charge them, you know, be charged?
>> We're not charged. >> No charge will charge will charge us for >> going to court, filing it, blah blah blah. >> But we are a town committee. >> They should be.
>> But he's a he's a separate entity, isn't he? He doesn't he's not in town. >> He's a separate entity. He doesn't work for us as an employee and the attorney has gotten paid for doing that. >> I don't know, but I mean,
>> yeah, it's paid. That's a whole issue we better look at. >> So, when they let's get the fines in place first. >> I'll find out what it is cuz sometimes you can just go and file your own. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> For what, $25, $50, $100?
>> Then you get a court date. >> Yeah. And where do we get that money? Under the because that >> may have to go back to the GF on that >> the fine work there. You said it was $150 a day. >> Mhm.
>> What after the court thing, >> right? >> It came down right away. Who who got the fine? Did the town get the fine? >> Meaning did it go to the general fund then back to his store? >> Because the sign came down. Oh, was a
sign. >> Oh, sign >> and it came down right away. >> But then if we have at some place in there, it should say if we have to take you to court, you're going to pay court fees. >> Oh, I was going to say that. >> Yes, >> you're right.
>> Okay. All right. So, good. >> Now, we take you to court, the town ends up paying for it >> and then they take the same sign down the next day and there's no >> no charge to the person who made you go to court. >> Right. happen the next day. I mean, this will
be so the town's favor take them to court. Is that what this and unsure or you are sure that that would that Adam would represent us? >> Well, see what happens first is you have to have the judgment put on. So the
general would get put on and if it's ignored then you brought them to court and then the court ordered for them to take the sign out or $150 a day. Is that how that happened? >> Cuz J first first you have to get the paperwork done. >> Yeah.
>> So somebody filed. So you say June Riddle with the lawyer. So she filed in whatever court it was >> and then it got put on the books >> and then there was 30 days for him to fix it. He got it signed. Some people get a judgment against you. >> No. No. No. No. No, no.
You got brought to court at after the HTC got tired of issuing warnings. >> Oh, you didn't have finding. You had a court case. >> Yeah. Not us.
>> No. Okay. There were no fees in place. So you you sued us, right? >> That's way different. That's way different. Okay. That's very >> Yeah. There was no lee. So, but if we have it in place, we can file the lean >> in wherever it is where we're talking.
Exactly. It's totally different because you had a lawsuit against him. This would not be a lawsuit. This would be a lean >> judgement >> which is simple, straightforward. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Fill out the form. Well, this was too. >> Well, when you got to that point, you
know, it was over and done with, you know, waiting bought more. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. They would still have to wait to 30 days to get into court, right? >> I don't know how long. Yeah. Go ahead, Lauren. >> No, I'm just thinking we need to have a
fine process in place. >> Yep. So, we have one >> hang your hat on that if if it doesn't, >> right? And so what we'll say is court fees to be paid by the if any court
>> the cost of the process will be borne by the defendant. >> Yeah. >> Expense. >> You want me to read it again? >> How long ago did you go do this case? >> Yeah. Quite a while ago.
>> Yeah. J was the We had the early 2000s or like Yeah. Early 2000. >> Okay. I'm going to try to draft a motion here. >> Establish fine >> to establish the um fine process as
I'm leaving off the unaware. First offense is a 30-day warning. >> Yeah. >> Second offense. And even in the warning, you can you can have in once you start doing the outline for it, um that there
will be fines in place should there be a second offense. Then the second offense is $150 a day. Um I would still expect it to be done within 30 days in that second offense
issuance. And then if after the 30 days they're still not doing anything whether they come here and say look I need some more time you know if they try to negotiate something with the commission that's that's different and the the third after that 30 days there will be a
judicial lean and the expense will be at the um >> the owner >> defendant for the defender >> the offender over offender. Yeah. Or the violation, however, whatever the best
way is. >> So, we're capping out at 4500 bucks. >> That's for a month. >> That's a 30 days. >> That's 30 days. Yeah. And then if you if you're still at it, we're done. >> It goes into somebody else's master, right?
>> And the, you know, offender is responsible. And within the 30 I know you're trying to make a motion. I'm sorry. But within that first warning period of 30 days, that's when they can come to us. They can explain themselves. >> They can too.
>> They've had more than enough time to make conversation in the matter. >> Okay. >> So, it's good. So, Laura Shiffren is making the motion to establish a feed process as follows. The first offense
will be a 30-day warning. It's a 30-day warning. At the end of the 30-day, we will establish a second offense which will include a $150 per DM fine. Correct.
>> And after that 30-day period, a judicial lean will be entered in the court and all legal expenses are going to be paid by the defendant. >> That's pretty straightforward. You you've got their attention after 30 days. If it if they can take $4,500 and
say I don't get >> Is there a second? >> Yeah. But if you're discussing, >> right, we're happy. Any further discussion? >> I love the enthusiasm though. We love it. >> I am so happy. I want to have a vote
right now. Can we please? >> You have a first and a second. >> Yes, I do. You You made a motion. Clear. Second it. We had our discussion. Are we good with the discussion or >> Yes, please. >> James Baselby.
Yes. >> Oh, Maria Milligan. Yes. >> And Mary Jane Churchill. >> Yes. >> Thank you all. I am so happy about that. >> So, is it okay that I participate in the conversation? >> Absolutely. That's all part of
>> Well, okay. I just don't want to hold >> If anything, it's like Jennifer Robot should be here. So she can get acclimated to this get to know the board. Get to know >> what did I do? >> No, she's working. >> Not she's not coming. I wonder who can
ask. >> That's why we lead into the next conversation about the meeting. >> It's not on the agenda. >> Oh yeah, she put it in. >> No, we already had this. No, I already got >> Let's go back to that. Okay. So So we have a whole list of things for next
agenda. You want to go over that? >> Yes. Tell Jane cuz you might have something to add. first few minutes. >> You're you're sending us a copy of your email >> and that should be tonight. But you
don't do email. >> I'm stuck. I'm getting I got somebody up there teaching me now. >> Go into the room. Can you get into the copy room? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Just go in there and I'll put it in there for you. >> Yeah. He leaves all kinds of OC's from
each side in conservation. >> Put them in the HDC or do you want me to put them in conservation? >> It doesn't matter. Just put in HDC. I'll I'll pick it out. I That's easy. What else did you guys We got a list. I got a list. >> Okay. Go ahead. I'm right.
>> January. Yep. February 22nd public. >> Oh, yeah. Public 26. >> 26. >> Oh, I said okay. I saw 26. >> Yeah, exactly. um for the public hearing and then you're you'll probably add
March 12th submitt >> and then postcard I'm going to bring the sample of the postcard >> which will be HDC only mail >> yes okay >> and then and that
>> that's the new board we just put together >> um nope right that's the next item >> is the CPA >> and I'm going to give an update on what went on out of the training and what who's going to get the money and how much money and I'll give you guys all
the information. >> And what's the seventh one? >> There is another one. I know >> uh this the Did you want to add >> what >> the meeting time? >> Oh, meeting time. >> Yeah, we can work that out even if I mean I should be put on the agenda kind
of. >> Yeah. >> Supposed to be born in April 3rd last right now. Nice. Motion to Oh, no. Well, you know, the next meeting will be April. >> April
second. >> Yeah, it seems time. >> Okay. So, we got one, two, 30. >> N is the nth. Yeah. Well, you know, you can't
the day before. >> Okay. That's not that. >> Can I get in some more more questions? >> As long as they apply. Don't go off track. We'll give them >> No, no, no. They're all they all relate to the historical commission and everything. It's like I'm I'm fairly
okay with this woman in the new house doing a complete rebuild, but I still in my heart in my heart thinks we we should have offered her or it at least said to her that you can do some changing on this footprint because the old existing
house is gone. Well, let me >> I've got a couple people looking some of this information up to verify what I'm saying, but I think she should have been offered the the ability to make some changes. >> There was some was in the meeting minutes that we reviewed.
>> Yeah, it was. He's bringing on the table. >> So, and then and moving forward, you know what? She's coming back again. Let's see what she needs. >> Okay. And another thing is with some what is like the cell has got my attention.
>> The brick stores got my attention. The house right next to there's got my attention. But all of the vinyl siding the sign that's out in the front of there that was put up for the bridal and >> Oh yeah yeah yeah. >> How did that slip through the cracks?
>> No, we allowed her to >> No, no, no. a sign that says sea salt and and whatnot. >> Yeah, that's been up there. But she they were going to take the sea salt down because they're leaving and >> gone. >> Right. So, they're supposed to be taking that down and putting her on it.
>> But he's saying how did they get that? Cuz that wasn't within the rules. >> Oh, you mean how did they get the sign? >> Yeah, I can tell you exactly how he got the sign. He >> He did it himself. He know he put it in and there was all kinds of
upheaval and the society didn't have a meeting and we went over a 60-day loan to do >> well that won't happen going forward probably. >> Yeah, cuz I seem to be >> Yeah. >> Every time I go through the West towns and I look at things more and more, you
know, and I'm seeing a little more stuff that's kind of getting my attention. I got to do my own. I thought the current owner was pretty amicable. >> Well, he was. It wasn't his fault that we didn't get >> that he was putting in there.
>> You're talking about the sage people. Oh, no. They were all good. They They were good. He did everything he was supposed to. He put an application in, but there was no chair at the time. It was a big upheaval at the time. It was a big mess. We didn't have meetings right in the middle. >> Yeah. I didn't realize there was an application.
>> Yeah. Last year, was it >> brain torn? You must have been we were on >> 2024. You were there. >> Lori was cuz got put on the 24th of September, right? >> Yeah. Mentioned the first July. Yeah. That summer.
Yeah. >> July. August. >> Oh, you weren't having meetings on >> Yeah, we weren't. >> Well, we didn't have any. >> But in awareness, there was an application. >> We made headway with the sign for UPS at Honeylands. No, we made headway to the
point point that they're going to give us a revised sign, but he didn't submit it yet. But he so I'll contact them and say where does it stand? >> Okay. >> He's a good guy.
>> We'll make a motion to adjourn at 403 p.m. 403. >> Second. >> Second. Thank you, Claire. Welcome. All in favor of a joining >> with little meetings. We didn't get up 10:30 last night.
>> That's not going to happen here. Claire. >> All right. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. James. Yeah, we had a bunch of stuff on