Smith will call the meeting to order. >> And Jerry Lynn is >> Joe and Bazique is >> on on on the committee here >> on the board on the commission. >> Who's that handsome guy on the back? There's the name.
>> Good, isn't it? >> Yeah. Okay. So, the roll call, please. >> Colby present. Susan Ger present. James Rollan present. >> I'm present. >> Okay,
we are being recorded by Tcam. Is anyone else recording this message in this meeting? >> Marie, should be all set, but she said she's going to be late because she's in another meeting. >> Oh, she did let you know. >> Okay. So, um,
we're not going to be able to accept the minutes for April today because I forgot and you don't have any minutes from August because no one showed up except Claire and May. So, we didn't have a quorum. So, you couldn't come. >> I thought that was September. No, that
was >> last May. >> That was September 9th. >> And I said I was going to be late and I was here. >> You were late. You were here. But it was >> all I was here at 5, >> but the meeting was 5. I've never gone to a meeting at 3. So
>> I'm out front at 5:00 going, "Oh, nobody showed up and I didn't get pulled." >> But we're on the website now. Put it on the website. >> Mrs. My phone. I mean, I'm just a computer. I mean, >> the text.
>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I can even send one back with a smiley face at meeting, you know. >> Oh, yes. I You only get the smiley face. >> She wants me to pick her up from >> Okay. So, the first item is the zoning
board of appeals. I really want to talk with everybody because I think there's a gross misunderstanding. Wait a minute. 51 and >> item I mean item number five. >> So view this for you. >> Okay.
>> Number five. Um I move that we um take the minutes for April 2025 >> to our next meeting in November.
>> Do I have a second? >> Second of it. >> Susan. Okay. May I please have a vote? I Susan Bber and I >> Jamesburg. Yes. >> Lauren. Yes. >> Mary Jane. Yes. So we will bring those.
>> Now it's going to be the from September. >> No, there are no minutes September. Those are the April minutes. >> We're behind the April, but >> we'll get them. >> There are no minutes for September because
>> we weren't there. I got >> there wasn't a form. >> So now can we go to six? You go to six. Oh no. >> No. I was going to say we could actually >> Well, she's in charge. So let's go ahead. >> Oh, whatever. I'm confused.
>> All right, we're good with that, right? We don't have to >> No need. Yeah. So I mean, we can't take anything else. All right. Can >> I have a copy of the agenda? I did not. >> You know what? You can have this one cuz
I have a copy. >> Okay. So, we're going to discuss the zoning board of appeals briefly. Briefly, briefly. I just want to say that that meeting was uh very disappointing.
Had I known that the zoning board of appeals did not have jurisdiction over the historic site, I never would have bothered with it. >> Yeah. >> But um so be it. But then it opened up a can of worms because
of the authority >> of the building inspector >> well o over the historic districts. So that led to the art of warrant article asking for the building inspector to be
the enforcing agent. Kind of convoluted but after the meeting cuz I asked for it to be tabled. Why was that convoluted? Because it was the town council who explained it at the zoning board where we were jointly meeting. Town council
explained why and what had to be done. And so he was directed by the select board to do the warrant article so that we would be in compliance with what all the other cities and towns are doing.
>> So that's why that ended up there. Okay, that's good to know because that's not the case because mass 4C chapter 13 which is what we're under jurisdiction and we don't have anything in our bylaw specifically so we
would default to 40C and 40C says that the enforcing body is the historic district. >> Okay. So my question to the board is I guess the warrant article is going to come up again.
>> Yeah. >> So should we ask for it to be cancelled or whatever the legal term is or should we ratify this 40C section 13 jurisdiction in our bylaw?
>> Include it. question. >> I don't think we can put 40C into our section 13. The language language. >> Do you want to read the language? No. >> Right. Everybody has a copy of it. >> What page is it on? >> Yes.
>> Um it says part one. Yeah. Looks like it's >> Yeah. But what part of it is what part of this >> is it the whole thing? Well, all I really The only thing being
all of section 13. >> Oh, section 13. >> Yeah. Section four penalty concerning you. Are you going to read it out? >> It should be the
>> Yeah, that's it. Okay. So this comes right out of 40 C section 30 >> in our bylaws. >> Well, no bylaw state >> Massachusetts HCD
>> review which we are presently under. >> Correct. Yep. Exact. So if I could further without the building inspector with us in overview of construction work all the different window installation door
installation whether it's concrete or who is the expert from amongst us and are you telling me that the people from Massachusetts HDC will come out to towns and
>> no they give us they give is not a good commission. >> The commission has the authority. We can't give permits. >> The authority >> does authority have the knowledge. >> Doesn't matter. We have the authority because we have to. So the process is
when somebody wants to do something exteriorly on their propert. >> They they fill out an application and they present it to us. The building inspector is not supposed to issue a building permit until we have determined
whether the work is going to be appropriate or not. >> Right. >> In terms of architectural, historic, medical, >> we're a little different because a lot of the cities and towns do have the exact language that was in the warrant
article. >> Correct. >> Okay. Which is acceptable to the state, >> but not acceptable here. No, not not at all. So, what we want to do is understand that the building inspector is ancillary to our job,
he can't do anything until we say it's okay. >> Correct? So once we approve it and let's just say it's going to be windows >> and we have a picture because we're supposed to have pictures all the time and they're going to put in say 6 over6
windows for the historic look. >> Mhm. >> We approve it and we drive by and we see that they did 404. >> The paper goes to the building inspector for for enforcement. Do you want to
announce the other people that are on? >> Hi, Mil Maria Milikin. I recognize you and I recognize Harrison. >> Thank you for joining. We're talking about the um what are we talking? We're talking about the uh jurisdiction
authority of the HDC. >> Yes, I've been listening. >> Oh, okay. Good. Thank you. So the question came up with the inspector the building inspector >> warning well I don't know if you wanted to language saying that he would be the
enforcer. So if if so for example if the four I go to I call him I say um look I just looked at 292 Main Street and the plans are for 6 over6 and there's only four over four and they're in. We want them
out. Okay. Is there a violation? So always historically we've always had a great relationship with the building inspector and he has always been our enforcer. we correctly are you correct. This is
the first time we've come up against this kind of obstac. So, so now it's in, you know, grand, >> for example, in my house, which I'm in historic district in West Townsen. >> Mhm. >> And we were um we're taking like the
shed kind of look of the right side of the house bar, and we wanted to make it into a twocar garage, >> and we needed more room because it was originally made for a Model T car. So, it was not long enough for today's car. So, we were going to bump it out in the
front. That's how the architect did it. Got to the meeting and they didn't like that. They wanted it to be straight across. So, I just right then and there redrew it. We bumped out the back and now we're straight across. >> So, in other words, your facade stayed
consistent to what was needed by the historical district in your property. >> So, I I agree that >> your compromise came by extending it to the back instead of the front, right? But I think my my concerns are and this is that she keeps getting a phone call
and you can't stay focused on her. >> I know it's the phone >> you >> Okay, it's off. It's off now. So I don't So this is about jurisdiction. So we as the commission have the authority to take
those people if they're not going to comply with >> to court. Pardon? >> I prefer it to pass. I would like the heat to think we have to think somebody to chip. So we're the enforcing body. My point being we don't need the building inspector to be the enforcing body
because we're already appointed by virtue of mass gem. So we all these years before it was okay. >> Well because we had a cooperating building inspector. Now we don't. >> Well, how did you know?
>> How do we know what? >> How did you know? because it was um it was it was done outside of our bylaws. >> What was done? >> Because they because they always came to you first. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. There was a system in place
with the prior uh building inspectors that allowed the um commission to have notice that someone was going to be doing work. and the building inspector's office through Janet and I don't know
who was before her gave the applicants a application. So there was >> she's been here forever. >> No, she's No, I I don't remember anybody before her. Remember a lot of building >> she's already done that >> but this building inspector
>> took that particular job away from her and he does it himself. So she doesn't get the she >> So what do you mean he took that particular job away from from >> Janet? >> From Janet, >> correct? >> How I have no idea how it works is what
he told me. >> That doesn't make that makes no sense. >> He told me this. So >> Janet will get the the permit from the building inspector. She will the application. She will mark it accordingly that it is in the historic district. So when the building inspector
was to get that he is oh it's aware it is in the district. So therefore >> it's not going through that process anymore. >> The current building inspector has only given Janet jurisdiction to work on um
oh I can't remember what she told me. She she she doesn't deal with new permits. She only deals with after I >> repairs or something >> repairs, inspections, setting appointments and that thing. >> He takes care of all the applications now according to what he told me.
>> And Janet confirmed it. >> Okay. >> So that's why it's missing because he doesn't have access to the same if he's at home on his remote phone. He's he doesn't have access to what Janet does on her >> the cards >> municipal computer or cards and he's not
standing in front of an applicant giving them an application. >> So he doesn't know that it's in the historic district, >> right? >> Unless he looks it up on the map of their address. >> No, I disagree. Anything that was put in front of Janet, she will know to mock it that it is in the historic district.
>> Or is he getting it before she gets it? >> I do not know that. He told me that he's do well. Let me get Janet in here. >> Okay, that would be just as well to bring somebody in that can verify what we're trying to decipher here.
>> Are you confused as I am with what I'm you're hearing? Does it make sense? >> Again, I'm not an expert at historic commission, but I thought that they were marked. We mark them in the assessor's office.
And years ago, we had this we had discussions about having all of the departments talk to each other. So when a permit is pulled, they tell the assessors to look for it to come up because you're talking about a visit. You're talking about adding the assessed value to that property. So if they're
supposed to all be talking to each other and know historic, it will be then with in that process. Yeah. Historic district will come up. >> Correct. And and I know Janet will come in and she will tell me that I will mail our fellows accordingly to being in
historic so all all parties are notified of this >> for whatever reasons we need. Um >> but they might have changed that. >> Well, I do not see how our our policies change from building inspector to building inspector. I mean I don't
understand that from Richard Hanks to this Richard. I I think these individuals are consistent. >> One or two intern people, >> correct? >> You know, and then it's hard because when that person comes in, they're the department head, not the admin.
>> Correct. >> Not clerical. So, you know, every boss is different. I I don't know, you know, >> but at the same time, I think we all have we're all in a specific parameter of our responsibilities and job as a
building inspector, a ZBA, etc., etc. I I kind of don't accept, well, this building inspector doesn't work with us, but the other one did. That doesn't flow. >> Well, that's what happens. Well, then I I I personally will try to delve into
that to see why this is happening. That makes no sense. That's an inconsistency. We I don't feel as though we can work with or anyone could work with. >> Janet. >> Hi Janet. >> Hi Janet. >> Hey everybody. >> You all know Janet, right?
>> Yes. Janet Levit, building department assistant. What can I help you with? Mayor J. No, but it's your question. I'm good. >> Okay. So, just have things changed now with a different
in building inspector than it was before? And do you do you still get the applications or no? What happens to an application when it comes in? He's not here. >> He does most everything remotely.
So the application goes into permit link. Everything is no longer on paper. Most everything comes in >> through the computer online. So, he reviews all of the building
permits, not the gas or electric or any of the other mechanical >> um types of permits, but the building permits he handles mostly on his own. So
as far as somebody holding it in their hand and saying, "Oh, this needs HDC." What I have done to the system is I have flagged, >> okay, >> every property that I know is HDC.
So there's a big red box that says flagged, >> okay? and he should be looking at that and then deciding is this an interior permit that makes no
difference to HTC or is this something that is going to affect the appearance of the outside >> which it would have been bad be something that triggers HTC >> right >> correct >> at that point at that point what should
be happening is either an email to the contractor. Whichever email has been provided on the application, >> yeah, >> would get a message that says this is an HDC property, blah blah. And
>> there first, >> right? >> Okay. >> Right. >> That sounds right. So in other words, you just verified for me what I made the point of if something in an application comes in, we will have knowledge of it
because you have set the computer up. So it will flag it if it's in the HTC >> the building will >> please know he's notified. So that system is still in place. Correct. >> It is. >> Thank you.
What what I want you all to know is that you do have access to that. You should be >> so it should be CC to Mary Jane. In other words, >> if there is need, if there is need, it
should go to the email that was given to us for somebody on HTC Jio link. Correct. >> Right. If if I do see them, I will photocopy and throw it in your
mailbox. Or if somebody bypasses everyone and just goes to the clerk and says, "Hey, I'm going to do a project. I know I'm in HDC." They will throw your form in your mailbox. So So
I have a question. What is your question? >> I I didn't get what you just said. If somebody goes directly to the clerk, what clerk? A town clerk. >> Clerk. Yes. >> Who would that somebody be? An applicant. >> An applicant. Correct. >> Okay. Trying to be clear.
>> Something in the building to the clerk. >> Sometimes people do that. Sometimes the clerk shouldn't go there. >> Goes to Jan. It goes to the building instead. Here's what has happened. >> No gray zone. >> Here is what has happened over the
years. Over time, people have come to depend on the clerk for almost everything and they know some people know that it has to be stamped in by the clerk and that their clock starts
running. So, >> remember who is doing that is obviously circumventing the system by going around the building inspector >> maybe. >> So, I think Harrison should be in here so he hears that. So, that doesn't matter. He's online. He's online.
>> This I I'm unfamiliar with this in my time here. I don't know if that was a practice or something that occurred in the the prior years. I I don't know if that has occurred. >> He would he would send them to the building department. He would not >> It does happen from time to time and I
would not worry about it. It's not an everyday occurrence. But if it occurs once and it isn't that is unacceptable >> structure it is that's incorrect process. >> It's going it's going to get to us one
way or another >> but and I would only expect Janet you would say >> and it should go to you first. It should never >> be brought to it the clerk >> with the intentions of circumventing
you. That's it. Incorrect. You know what you need to do and you're done with this. >> Never happened. I think that's pretty uh >> She just said it happened. >> Well, I don't think it was with the intent of circumventing. >> I think circumventing changes the whole thing. >> Well, how do you know what somebody was thinking when
>> Why would somebody to the clerk for a building inspection? Well, I tell you something right now. We have got six We have six >> deals where they should have gone to the building inspector and somehow they didn't. And that
>> and they went to the clerk. >> No, they didn't go anywhere. The guy did his work and you said they do it all the time. So, what I'm trying to do here, >> who does it all the time? >> Who does what all the time? >> We had an application for 65 million. Was it 65 million? M
>> 65 Maine. We never had an application. The building inspector missed it, I guess. I don't know. Did you ever have an application? I don't know. All I know is that I drove by, work was done, windows were replaced, walls were taken out. I went to the
building inspector. He said, "Oh, let me check and see." And then he checked and saw, "I don't know. Next picture shows he >> I don't know." Is what he said. That's what he told me, James. I don't know.
So, he was going to go look. He went down. He looked. Next picture showed I got an application filled out by the building inspector, not the applicant, which was incomplete, which I had to send back. And that's when I said, "What's going on
in your office? I never had this happen before. Is this not right, Susan?" And >> thank you. Yes. I mean, you two are pretty new to this, but we've been doing this for a couple years. >> I may overdo it, but I am not naive to what I hear and what I understand.
>> Believe me. >> Then it happened again on a property right down the street from >> in the 65 main. >> Well, my comment had to do with 22 Main Street who did it for two years. I don't
>> whether there was something who is vetinarian. It's not historic, right? >> Totally wrong. >> Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, nobody should be doing That's what I'm saying. >> Janet, I I I know you got a good comment.
>> If the door is closed down there, >> I don't want anybody at this table to think that it is unusual for somebody to come in and ask that something be tossed into the mailbox. It's not unusual. I'm
not here on Fridays. Bob's not here on Fridays. >> Oh, let me get that closed. >> You said tossed into the box. So, you meant that they go to the town clerk, he stamps it, and then it goes into the building inspector or whatever whatever
or HTC, whatever box is supposed to go into. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. Now, I understand somebody delivered and said that office is closed now. Can you put this in their mailbox? Makes sense. I'm good. I
understand that part. >> Yep. >> I guess I understand that. >> Yes. Okay. You're clear. So, I'm talking about why are properties in the historic district
owned by certain people not getting applications, not getting building permits until I have to do some kind of drive around town and see what's going on. Do you know the answer to that? I don't. >> Oh, yeah. That's where I'm getting at. And
>> truly understand your frustration. I see it. totally understood my frustration. Now going back, those were the houses. Then we had the bridge issue, the trestle issues where the building inspector took it upon himself to make a decision that those
properties were not in the district, which he put on YouTube or whatever that is, that he had made a mistake and he was sorry, but the horse was out of the barn at that point. And that has happened six times with him with the same ownership in the same
district. And that's not acceptable to this commission. At least the majority. >> Wait a minute. He thought it was within his juris and he said it when he apologized. He thought it was in his jurisdiction like is most in cities and
towns the building inspector. That's the zoning official. So, he apologized for making the decision because it's not in his purview. It should have gone to you first. >> But here's what happened. I asked him to please wait until I got a a decision
from the state and he didn't. And that's why he apologized because I had >> You thought it was already done? >> No, the work had been done. This refers to the two foot the railings on the foot bridges >> in regards of a safety overview with Lat.
>> That's not the issue. >> Oh, no. Safety is no safety issue. You got it all wrong and that's where I want to speak to that. >> Well, you've said you have said yourself that you would not have allowed them. >> I have not said that. The issue with me was that the property was in the
historic district. I don't care about >> I was there. you know, I was there and I absolutely and I understand. >> So, don't convolute it with safety. That's a whole other safety is involved in it. So, if you're as upset with those about that, so if
you're in such disagreement with those railings on that bridge, >> no, that's not the issue. >> Okay, let me follow through. >> Oh, boy. >> Hang on. Now, with that fencing that the state just put up, that black wire mesh >> going >> Yeah.
>> Do you like that? No, I don't. >> Did we make any protest to that? >> And how is that? >> Did we make a Did we go into protest on that to the state of Massachusetts about that? >> No.
>> Proceed. I'm listening. I find that >> you're not on the same page in the conversation. >> Truly, I am. >> No, you're not. >> You're not. >> You're talking about We're talking about district. We're not talking about it. And I and I understand that and and and
the building inspector was very humble and he made his apology about not understanding that how it was structured with the HTC. My point is and let's get to the point. We should have the building inspector in our coffers in our corner for his
ability to do enforcement his knowledge etc. If you say to me that, well, the prior building inspector worked with us and he was wonderful and we had great luck, but this one we don't have any luck with him and he's not working with us. There's a problem.
>> Well, we know that. >> Oh, we know that. We totally know that. >> That's not so you understand. I am on the same page. Mary about Mary J. I understand. >> Back I want to go back to the part about safety.
At no time ever in my conversations with the building commissioner was >> safety discussed because that was not on the table. On the table was the district. >> Mhm.
>> He made the decision on his own without doing >> investigation. Yeah. >> I said please wait until I have a opinion from the state. He did not wait. He jumped the gun because I guess he was
told it had to be done right now by the applicant. >> Am I right on this? >> Mhm. >> So already done. >> The work had already been done. >> Gee, he's out of the ball. >> The point being, he gave me his word that he would wait until I got an
opinion from the state and he didn't do it. And the reason he got on television that time was because I had a letter from the state identifying it. >> Right. And you did read it out and it it verified 100% you were correct. >> And I'm not trying to say I'm correct. That's not my deal.
>> But you were truly >> Well, I understand that I was correct. But I was correct from the beginning and I asked him to wait and he wouldn't cooperate. So I don't want to have this commission go down the road again and again, year after year after year, having to prove that we have a district, that we have jurisdiction. I want it
settled for good either in a bylaw or we default to the state. I think that this is where we should be because we can't guarantee that we're going to have a building inspector that is going to be for the historic district 100%. We can't
there's too many special interest that go by >> we have this fault. >> So your default >> if you want to default and not do a bylaw. So my question is, do you want to do a bylaw to ratify this or do we want to keep this and just have to pull it up
every time somebody gets weird? >> Well, you don't do bylaws anyway. >> No, I know. But we're going to have to address this bylaw at some point. Um, >> in other words, we're going to have to make a decision when it comes to one whether we're going to bring the
building inspector in as the overview or whatever is done in HDC or we self-govern ourselves per se, >> but we have authorities then you don't need a bylaw change. >> You don't
>> I mean, if you're if you're just going to go on this, you don't need a bylaw change. And we know now that the building inspector doesn't get it first. That if it's HDC, it has to come here first. So there's no permit. >> He will automatically have to step aside
and make sure that it comes to HDC. >> Right. >> So when it comes back to town meeting, >> the article, >> how is that handled to >> Well, in comparison, >> well, it can come back every meeting if
it wants to come back. But if this is >> I'm sorry. I thought I heard my name being followed. >> You did. That was me. >> But if he wasn't vulnerable, what was >> So when we have an article that was brought up at special town meeting,
article 4 about the HTC and jurisdiction of enforcement and my question is it will come back up again. We are going to make a decision on how we want to handle it. If we decide that
we want to keep it as according to Mass General 40C section 13, how do we handle that article coming back again? >> Sure. So, procedurally the action that was taken was to table the article. So,
it stays on the table unless it is either um at the same meeting brought back up from the table or now that that meeting has been dissolved it would need to be warranted. So right now it's basically it's permanently dispensed with as no action having been taken. So
whether an article is brought back and in what form an article is brought is entirely up to uh the the select board and warranting the new warrant. Um you know given the subject matter the commission may have you know input on
that but as far as it would be rewarranted by the select board have a brand new article. that wouldn't be >> specifically lifted as a >> rec leaves it open to be brought back to the table again. >> No, it'll be rewarranted.
>> What? That's what I mean by it can come back again. >> But honestly, I don't think this I don't think it's worth it. So, we all thought that this is how it was because that's how it's been or uh has worked well, if you will, in the past.
Um, the only reason why it was brought up was to make it in compliance to what we used to do, which is what the other cities and towns do. Okay. And and it's it's written to still give you this you I say because the
um authority to make that decision from now on. Okay. Anybody who comes in has got to know that they can't get a permit. This might be one of the things that go on the postcard, you know, that we don't have done yet, but more
information given to people who are actually in the district. >> Um, and maybe once we get to boards and commissions, we can have a little clip video for the public to see regarding the historic district commission and what they should expect and where they should go first for things because we're
hoping to get a roll that out, too. So, I say if if you don't want to have it like all the other cities and towns do have it that used to be here, then fine, we'll weave it off. >> Would you clarify that? What What is it
the other cities and towns do that we don't do? >> They have this they have this verbiage in their bylaws. Do you know what towns they were? Because I looked up what towns and I didn't see it. >> I think Grat. >> I don't I don't know. But this is from other Graten doesn't have not that language. No.
>> Do they have language in their bylaws regarding >> how they must fine with leaving it off the table and and you guys come up with what you're comfortable with. >> I say that it's already been decided by the state of Massachusetts and 4C, but
I I don't think we should usurp what we've been given in terms of authority. >> I don't think we can. >> Well, you're probably right. >> I do not think it is. I don't know. You're not >> I'm okay with leaving us. I'm sorry that we spent the money.
>> Can I make a commentary? >> Okay. Two things. I understand HTC has to come first. People can make an application for a permit. You know that they can make the application. They can't be given the permit until your
>> things are satisfied. The other thing is there are people that sometimes don't bother to come and get a permanent. >> Well, that's the issue >> and that is >> that is the issue that is this is funneling down.
>> Thank you. >> So just just >> I I want the historic district. >> Well, here's the thing. So all right. by many different people. >> But be very clear about this. >> If somebody does work without a permit,
we don't have to go to the building commissioner anymore. We can take that person and whatever mitigate or we can take it to suburing. That's the kind of power we have right now. I don't want to diminish that. Excuse me.
>> Do you have to have money to do that? >> I'm sure you have to have money to go to superior court. I'm sure. The town council supposed to represent us. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> The time we went >> you you historic district went to the
superior court >> and who was counsel? >> Uh June Riddle. >> That's a long time ago. Who was it? >> And was it for um Lord and Son down there on his building >> where the that used to be
where that used to be on Main Street. Mhm. because it was internally lit, too big. >> It was an outdoor sign, but it was huge. >> And that's historic and he didn't get a permit, >> right? >> And I assume the historical society was
able to procure that decision and it went in your favor. In other words, >> absolutely. >> Okay. >> With with the the feet. >> I mean, I see both sides. I see both sides where you are with that we can't and I
have to agree maybe I but we kept people going about doing things without permits >> but we do we have done >> I think that has to come into discussion too >> that that is a discussion at least
>> and we've been fighting this for two years then correct so nobody ever did this before two years ago I don't think that's right I don't think that's true well not in the areas that we're >> I mean we have seven six permits right
now that I'm ready to take them to court but >> we have six per >> we have six or six people that did not >> it's all the same person it's all the same person it is six incidents in district 2 where >> the harbor. >> Yeah.
>> Yes. That the owner has gone, if you'll pardon the word, rogue and just done whatever he wants. >> I'm sorry. That would be the >> It's a good word. >> It's what you're referring >> and
six of them that statement against the I don't even know what to say. It's it's to me it's >> it's irrehensible that somebody would be that uncooperative with the municipality and the rules.
>> It's just flagrant. It It's flagrant and it's >> it's wrong and it's deliberate. It's flagrant and I and I really It's not without knowledge. It's with knowledge. So with that being said, and I
understand where you're coming from, is there a resolve and we work to find a resolution, take this individual, these individuals for whom matter, and work with them and
find a reasonable resolve and nip it in the bud and we can move forward in in better standings. What do you feel would be a worthy resolution to me taking somebody to and I'm referring I pretty familiar with
just what you're talking about. I am what is our best resolution so we can move forward the plate get everybody on the same page and move ahead in good >> one personal
>> personal okay >> I only say that and you know I give it with a grin but I do it >> okay I would say take down the wall and replace what in you took out >> oh wow >> you're going to the the granite wall
that iconic just put in. >> Who's iconic? >> The individual that just put in the the granite wall in front of the two homes. >> So, you want to take I say >> No, I'm saying that that would be my solution. >> Take that beautiful granite wall
>> down >> and replace it with the concrete gecko. >> No, no, no. It wasn't concrete gecko. It was a short >> I went up. I know where the rubble went, Mary Jane. I know where the Don't ask me what you want me to say and then fight me. That's what my opinion
>> what I'm saying is what you're trying to say is just makes no sense. That >> Well, it does that was put in there. >> It's not in kind. >> It's not >> it's not inind. What?
>> So, it doesn't matter if not that is not the issue. That's not the issue. >> Better is not the issue with us. And we better get that straight. All of us on this better pretty. That's not why we're here. We're here for architectural integrity of the historic preservation.
Not >> anything that was falling apart. >> Doesn't matter. It's got to be replaced in time. Then, Lori, that was changed years ago. >> You're not on that page. >> I can't get on that page. >> Yeah, I know. I know where it was put in. I remember
>> a real estate agent was concrete >> and a broker and telling you about values. That's my position on this board. I don't have I don't have to in favor of dilapitation. >> We're not saying that, Lori. You're taking a huge leap. We're not saying
dilapitation. We are saying that we're are not about pretty and we're not about clean. We're about keeping it historical. There are a million historical uh architectural wood, slate,
everything is now fine. That's what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to take a building, strip it, and change it. You know what? It's like transgendering a building. And that is what we're not for. Mary Jensen, I hate to say this, you
really need to take a minute and think about the direction you're taking this commission. I'm sorry. >> Well, if you feel that way, perhaps. I feel that way because at the moment I'm working on a 200-y old Victorian that
stands up as nice as any building in this town. >> And I'm I am working straight forward with slate replacement. I'm putting $100,000 into rebuilding a barn. >> You're replacing slate. >> I'm not replacing it with architectural
shingles or asphalt sheet. You're replacing it. >> But it's new slate. >> New is fine. I'm moving the bomb from its original location 20 ft away. >> First of all, not in the historic district, so it's moved. >> But >> oh, you have to understand what I'm
talking about. So why would I spend $5,000 putting a stone wall in on my property that was dilapitated trees growing in there? Why do you do that? >> For the aesthetics, apples to apples. >> For the aesthetics, for the quality of
what I gained on my property by doing that. When you leave an old g stone te block wall that was falling apart, dilapitated and you show me you were telling me you're an objection
to that granite. One of those properties had no wall. Now all of a sudden it's got a wall linked to the house next door. That is not historically correct. Well, guess what everybody? If the applicant had
come to us and we had a chance to discuss it at the board and take a vote, maybe it would have gone. Excuse me, I'm speaking. Oh, yeah. Pity had a public hearing, right? >> But say the vote went out and they said, "Yeah, you can change the law." That
would be fine with me. >> The point is the process is being absolutely ignored 100%. >> Deliberately, >> deliberately, flagrantly, and arrogantly. I just for me cannot get on board. Are you saying to me that that >> and you shouldn't ask me the question if
you didn't want a honest answer from me? >> Well, then you shouldn't you're getting an honest answer for me. What was >> ask question is a beautiful job and it enhances the look. >> You made the job. >> I understand what the point is. >> But how do we move forward now? Is your
only resolution to take him to court? All you can start done is done because I'm getting really done with the whole thing. But you're destroying the look of the village. Am I not right, Susan? Am I not right? It's already destroyed. >> Okay. So, how do we move humanity? But
it's destroyed on >> change it. We can't change it. It's back 100%. >> Why can't we change it? >> Why can't those rails come down and be modified to be safe? would we could go and look for a period
correct railing system, right? >> Well, first of all, that won't happen because Trestle's never had railings. >> Bingo. >> I did my homework on that. But at the same time, I also called two scrap yards. I had to do a lot of tearing down of old estates in Boston area.
>> And he said, "Jimmy, I've got hundreds of feet of beautiful architectural." >> See, now that was a great alternative, but we didn't get the opportunity. truly and I but that is my only issue. That's what I want to keep saying like a broken
record. It's about the process. It's about the >> So that is the the rail trail, >> right? >> The trestle. >> That was okay. So are six the trestle that you're talking about? I mean the >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> Okay. Is um
>> Was there an application? Never. >> No. And Bob Garite said it wasn't in the district. He fought me for three months. I understand. >> And then all of a sudden it is in the district. No kidding. Because I had a letter from the state. >> So >> and and he lied about comparing the maps
of of brought exactly that do not exist. >> The whole premise was they don't no names. >> Gotcha. >> So it goes back to why do we have a historic district commission? >> Well, that's my question. Why are we sitting here having arguments about stuff? I prefer not to uh argue and try to move
forward. >> Well, we can't move. >> I tried to present just now. >> People will be able just to do whatever they want to do and then then it's after the fact. >> So, you want to go for >> That's not my point. It's what do we do?
>> How we moving it forward forward? >> It's wrong. It's It's wrong. >> I think there should be consequences. >> Yeah. I think there should be consequences. Otherwise, why are we here? >> Exactly. >> Well, I know since last fall, we've been talking about violations and putting
together um a list of what the rules and regs would be and what the violations would be if they're not enforced. Where's that? >> Well, it's right here. So, we can take people to period. I mean, it's in place. We don't have to use it, but it's in
place. Yeah. We talked about having a violation >> fine list. >> Yeah. Talk a court to be fined. >> We can't we can't >> No, you can find the store can find and
you can have a fine list without court. Absolutely. Like any other thing >> if we put it in by Yes. If it's not >> if it's not in the bylaw, you can just do a fine list. the historic and I've said this before the historic commission
can have a fine list >> but we have just done it in in conservation we reviewed all of our violation what this fine was regularly 10 we increased them to 30. So, not all the woods that we do have the ability to
hold people. Have you Have you actually finded anyone and >> Oh, yes. >> And they paid. >> Oh, yes. >> So, or did you go that go through court? >> No. When you're dealing with the D natural heritage, they've got clout once they know they're breathing down their neck from conservation.
>> I don't know. They have clout. >> Well, yeah, we do. >> They're equal to us. So go to court. >> I don't think you have to go to court to find. But >> I don't know. I don't know. >> Court has fines. >> Yep. >> We department has fines.
>> You didn't go. You didn't go to >> Oh, no. Common sense to them. >> Has fines. >> We're not going to get away with this. We're up against it. We better >> pay the piper. You know, been there, done that. >> You know, almost 20 years on the pad commission. So, and far more complicated
than what we're dealing with here. Yeah, >> let me get back to this, Mary Chen. For instance, I hate to see us getting hung up with some rails on the trail. That to me demonstrates safety, but at the same time, I said, you know, what's
is there a solution? Can we still do good here and move forward without getting hung up on all this? I think some of this stuff is foolishness. I really do. Not your your point is right. Why are we a commission if we even if we can't take
control of what's going on >> saying that now >> we're basically having people sitting and they go >> yeah that's exactly what's happening >> if I'm on I find it to be unacceptable and inappropriate but what are our solutions this guy will come out he's he's going to send me pictures of a half
a dozen different railing systems so we take the PT railings down we put some nice old architectural rod iron off of a particular bridge he sent me out and it would look phenomenal. >> Well, here's the thing. >> Can we find solutions for these things?
>> If you put an application in and ask for an advocate for appropriateness and you send pictures and you tell us what you're going to do and then we sit as a board and we discuss it and we come to a >> certificate lesson, we all work together. Yes.
>> We all like each other. Can we find that avenue? Is it possible? Because what I'm seeing is like, oh, it's taken to court. This this is happening. >> You're misinterp. I truly am. I wouldn't have taken the time to call this scrap. I'm going to
get some pictures sent over to you. >> So, but that other issue with that granite wall that Warren put up from Iconic. >> Well, let me tell you this. >> I can't For the life of me, man, madam chair, look at that and say that's just terrible. That doesn't look
good. >> Saying it's terrible. Your mission. >> So, you're saying to me you do like it and you feel as though it it does help. >> I think it's beautiful. The granite is gorgeous. I am a big granite person. I
got granite walls all over my property. And you can see what granite is the process is in our face. That's correct. >> And it's deliberate. >> And I want to say one other thing too. >> When we were sold, we being a historic
district way back in 2023, was it? >> One of the aspects that Bill Ry kept riding on was >> real trail, >> rail trail economic development in that district, okay, that we're going to create the harbor village and was going to bring all kinds of money to us. Okay.
So um >> we need >> and so I have been doing a lot of research and one of the things that's happening in the world it's called his heritage tourism and that's the kind of tourisms that brings people who are
interested in history. >> These people are not the Disney World people. These are people who understand history and are coming to look for cultural, architectural, music, food to create their heritage experience.
We right now have created a Disney World in the Harbor Village. We have taken the history of that church, if you will, and that fire department right now, if you will, and made it very pretty, but it has no historic integrity. So what we're
doing is we're kidding ourselves if we think that real people who want historical experience. They're going to come and say no. >> Okay. So you know what I think a good solution would have been? >> What would have been?
>> I don't know. I think we should have just left those buildings just the way they are, right? The church just the way it is. Let it fall into the ground. >> Yeah. I I can't talk to you because you know they just don't get it. And you who are putting million-dollar slate roof on your house should get
>> and side. It doesn't it does not have a >> my put your slate around the side. Right. >> Right. Second floor and side. >> So you're spending money >> every day. >> Yeah. So to make it real to make it real
to make it back where it was. >> Correct. >> No. It's just so my parents can look down and say, "Well, my son's doing a good job making the house in good shape. I I don't I I think though >> see that's apples for orange just I'm trying to say to you Mary Jane there are
solutions to what was going on in the >> that we that we should have let the church right I think is very very >> what was the solution what did you have what were your plans on keeping it in good good standings and living on for another 100 200 years
>> we knew it wouldn't >> we knew that it would not stand that >> very Oh, we're going to allow what? What was the solution? >> Because someone putting their money in to do it meant that we had never they never came
before us. So, we had no saying anything because it was all done. >> The doors and everything. >> Well, well, we us kicked me off the board. >> Yes. >> Mrs. You both just
let the old fire station fall into Miller's brook. the old >> I don't think you know what the town of Towns was responsible for that fire station and the HDC begged and
begged and begged for them to force DC to do maintenance on that building and nothing ever happened. >> No, >> we don't have money to pick the trash out. We barely have enough money to keep the roads. Let me finish.
>> This was a good 10 years ago. >> Three or four s uh town administrators ago that this all started. >> And in the lease, it stated that DCR
could have the use of that building >> free of charge >> with maintenance. never lifted anything more than a rake to Reiko. So, >> okay. >> Okay.
>> Who's DCR? Department of Conservation >> and Recreation. >> Recreation. >> Oh, in town. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Which would be like people that take care of Wenber D. >> Those exact people familiar with them. That's almost like having fishing game do it.
>> Yeah. which makes absolutely no sense. >> Well, that the town entered into that lease. >> So, >> once again, if I could be so bold as to say it's disturbing to hear you women
say that you look at the harbor is Disneyland. >> I see it. I don't I don't think it's >> Would you prefer everyone to walk around in Pilgrim G and >> No, we're not talking about that. Well, what we're talking about, you want things to stay and not be changed.
>> I have a threetory post in Bean Barn. I cannot leave it without >> doing some very serious engineering work to save it because it'll be there for 200 more years. >> You're missing the point. >> Please enlighten me so I would not be so
disappointed. >> You're not saying that we will not we want everything to fall over. Of course, we want things to be done right, but we want the process to be done right. And I as the chair and any individual person does not make that decision. It'll be a
board decision that we vote on, but we can't vote on it if we don't have the application. That's the point of this thing. >> I didn't disagree with you on that. >> Move forward. >> We have to have figured out >> because we can't do this. We're stuck in
the mud. I would not I can't for the life of me figure what the solution would be with HDC taking over that old fire station and leaving the church to its own demise. >> I don't get why you keep saying that. >> That was that's not never been our point. >> That's never been the point though.
You're missing the point. You keep repeating it. It the point is >> you wanted to stay authentic and period and not change. >> Oh, wait. Okay. >> Right. You don't you want to see it stay in original original status >> architecturally correct
>> not constructionwise but architectural visual the architectual aesthetics not the roof slate or whatever you call it today versus wood versus vinyl siding
etc etc and the integrity of what the building was made for and that's just an example And the fire station is another example of I think everything is who knows who knows what it is. >> Everything is what do you mean?
>> I can tell you that the sign is not period because guess what? I don't think they had gold lead in 17. >> No, it's not it's not period. >> Yeah. Not even close. And if we're think if they're thinking about bringing people in for a historic district just look just I set up as an example of
Williamsburg or what's the one ser >> mystic >> and we're not following that. >> Not at all. >> We're not following that. So that's a it's a big it's going to be a big um uh fraud.
>> Yeah. That's very well put is >> is people actually the people with the money do not see this. >> Oh, absolutely. >> With the money, >> can we execute that type of work
and keep it to the original >> footprint? Are you doing that at your house? >> I can't. Why did I move the barn >> on the old? because I couldn't couldn't how can you put a foundation under a threetory bound
>> jack it up. >> You'd have to jack it up anyway. But it would be >> where's where's your >> monetarily in West Road? >> I couldn't financially. It was cheaper for them to raise the bomb, pull it off
of the old floor, trolley it over, drop it back down onto a re-engineered modern floor. So from my farm floor in the basement where I I had to pour concrete, it's all 2005. But from the upstairs floor where I cut
all my own oak boards, it's all 100% 200 and odd years of handmade all post and beam handed. No saws were done on that and it was all hands saw and it's a beautiful bottom.
>> Let me help I could do it. We do not have jurisdiction below grade. So your foundation, you could put anything you want it. >> So I mean in terms of this >> so we just I don't know we for myself
with being on this commission I believe that the mission of the commission is to keep the integrity of the architectural preservation of our districts. That's what I am committed to. And we're butting heads.
>> Can we do it? Is it possible? >> Well, is it is it a >> Can people afford it? Can people actually do that with within their means? >> Well, everybody that we've had up until this year has been fine with it. I mean,
we've had push back a little bit. Um, money was one of the things. Well, I I'll tell you exactly what one of the bank >> the bank building. The rec building. >> Oh, the rec building. They had an issue because that was a slate roof. >> Mhm. The old towns and >> the bank. The old bank. Yes.
>> They they they submitted an application because they wanted to change their roof. They wanted not to do slate. They wanted to do or whatever. So, >> sure. >> I don't even know what it is. So, they put >> No, it wasn't asphalt, something else.
So, they put in an application. It was brought before the board. >> Yeah. >> They brought in pictures. They showed us what the difference was. because they pleaded their case. At the time, we had an architect on the board, which we should have, but of course, we don't. And we voted again. And so, we voted and
the vote came out. It wasn't unanimous by any stretch, but the vote came out that they were allowed to use the prefab slate look >> because they couldn't afford it, right? Because there is an application for hardship.
That's so you understand where I say to you, can is it freezible? Can people afford to be able to bring it back in addition of originality? It's a tough It's a tough one. >> But we're not saying they have to use
hand hu boards. We're not saying they have to use slate, but what we're saying is you can't change it from two doors to one. I mean, background I don't mean to be >> if people don't come before if people don't come before us and just go ahead
with >> you know >> what can we do it's done >> why are we here >> okay well we're trying to educate people more of what they should be doing and putting information out there >> and I I mean I'm certainly willing to do
that moving forward we can't I don't know what you want to do about the past but moving forward we can try to get the word out to everybody Some people know the word already and won't won't >> Well, you have to put the fine thing in
place like the other boards do. >> Yeah. >> Well, I guess >> I think you >> I mean, how do how do the other cities and towns do it if they have violations? They must have made process. I don't
think everybody goes to court. >> I I don't know. I have no idea. And it's more expensive to go to court now than it was 20 years ago. >> I can't answer that question because quite frankly, >> it's frustrating. >> It's frustrating. I don't care. Let back to this. If we're not going to make
people follow the rules, why have the commission? That's my area. Why are we wasting our time? We're going to say forward and we will have a plan for them. They they have to follow and they will be fined if they do not. >> Okay. So, you and Jerry are on that subcommittee, right?
>> Yeah. Okay. So, will you and Jerry get together and for the next meeting, can you bring something back? >> I try, but I think she's not been around. >> Oh, she's not around now. She'll be back in a week. >> A couple weeks I can meet with her. >> Jerry Lynn.
>> Jerry. I did send you an email. >> And she's on this commission, right? >> She's on another permission where they're doing structuring where Jerry Lynn could look. He's going to put it together. Water commission. And I'll ask, but I haven't talked to Oh, she's on the
water, too. >> So, there's that. >> But in in I just like for us not to get stuck on this and I I am struggling to sit there and try to disagree with you about what you're saying. I can't. You're right. I can't disagree with you.
>> If people are bypassing getting a permit, >> following all the rules that everybody is supposed to follow in towns, >> there should be a fine. >> There should be a fine. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know that's either fine or the building inspector. I don't know. I don't know where it comes from. >> No, it's under the
we can just like I was saying we just upped all of our standing times. What we did is we went to three other towns >> because correct an overview where they are and we're like down here and they're up here and it's like ooh. Mhm.
>> So we brought him up >> for two different reasons to be current and for them to see if I don't draw within the lines here it's going to cost me some money. So that was a I think it would be in our
best to as Lori saying structure a particular fine strategy for when people get out. No, you were supposed to get an application. You were supposed to A, B, and C. You didn't do any of the three letters here. take them to task.
>> So, >> and I don't want to see anybody get behind that because we don't like that in conservation because you don't make friends and it isn't a good thing for our community. Can we seek a a reasonable let's get together with what is creating
our problem? Everybody sit down. Let's find a good solution. Let's everybody figure it out together and move forward. >> Well, the other thing is I don't think that up until this debacle in district two,
>> we never had issues because even we had this one investor, you know, flipper real estate lady. >> She came in from Westchester or something. She bought a building and there was a barn in it. >> Mhm. >> She wanted to take the barn down.
>> Mhm. We said no. She fought us a little bit. >> Why did she want to thank the mom down? >> Because she wanted to put a deck on the house. We said no. Absolutely not. So we we must have had 10 visits with her, right? And she would do something and then
she'd change her mind and she say we tell her stuff and she was a real pain in the neck. But eventually she as somebody come Oh, I know what we do. We had the barn. We had a structural engineer come in and tell us the barn could be saved.
>> Once we had that certificate from him, we told her she had to save the barn. End of story. And she did. >> And she did every single thing we told her. I mean, she thought she was going to nail me. But eventually, her building looks gorgeous from
>> gorge. Talk about pretty. Talk about B. The place is beautiful. It's big red um empire Grecian up in west town. It's Greek revival. Greek revival. It's gorgeous. >> They just did it. They just repainted the barn and everything. Got the lawn done. The job done great. They did a nice job.
>> But she fought >> she was she was an out of town. >> Yeah. But she wanted to do what you guys are saying. She wanted to make it pretty quick, but she didn't want to keep the architectural integrity. And eventually she did. And I I think that
>> I mean kudos to you. Well, the worth of holding your feet to the fire. That was the worth of what the commission can do. That's right. >> Correct. But did make an application. So, we know about it. >> So, we know about it. >> So, that that's the first step, >> right?
>> And if I mean, in hindsight, once a person's done all the work, I mean, me, I would say take it down because you didn't follow the rules. by Daisy. I know, I know, I know you're much softer than I, but um we we have to do something. I guess we
can't do anything about the Harvey Village. It's decimated in my opinion. >> Not it's not Madam Chair. >> It's not beautiful. >> In my opinion, my opinion, >> please. It's >> my opinion. I get to say it's free speech, first amendment. having trouble
wrapping your head around it. But I've been here since 59 and I got to be honest with you. The harbor is looking >> a lot better. I agree with you 100%. Yeah, that big old uh dump that used to be up on uh Yeah, >> I can remember going down with the
cousins down turn road and lighting the dump on fire. >> It looks better than the dump. But anyway, so I don't think we can do anything about I mean I like your idea of trying to do something about the rails, but >> Oh, we can that can be an issue.
>> That's a decision. >> But would that be something with we could all work together is can we find resolutions to these? >> We can find Jamie if we had applications. We will discuss it as a group and we'll have a
>> We're start we're all starting at ground zero here. >> Yeah. Right. So, can we move forward? >> Yeah. I don't know. >> Okay. Why don't we change up by saying I hope so. Let's see what we >> Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. >> Let's see if we can work to get some resolve
on here. >> Yeah. >> What was it? >> Number six. You were >> that was >> that was the whole Yeah, that was all in that >> that all that segueed from that table right now. >> All right. We're tableling this. In other words, >> speak with a fee schedule and a notice
>> to the nonapplicant >> of penalties. I'm trying to get with >> before the November done decent business >> and uh is it
>> but we're trying to move forward so get finally get things in place so that >> well um let me just tell you this one thing don't don't blow off the fact that we still have the right to take this deployment and and have the
court decide if if it's architecturally within the parameters >> a half hour ago. >> Yeah. No, I mean that's that's an >> in other words in the box. It's an option. >> That's right. We're going to talk about >> can we find kinder more community
friendly ways of these to resolve. >> But we're talking about two things. We're talking about moving forward. We're going to do the fines. You're right. But we're talking about what the situation that we're stuck with right now. So there's two different things we're talking about. >> Sure. >> So let's focus on one thing. Let's focus
on the fines. That's the moving forward part. >> And I'll try to get with Jerry Lynn and we'll try to have a reward for your November meeting. >> Now Claire, what were you talking about just two seconds ago about the case schedule and the application?
>> Did you say something? We notify this nonapplicant >> that the trestles >> Oh. Oh, now. Okay. Now you're They're not moving forward. You're in the back. Hold on. >> No, I'm I'm moving forward. That the that existence of the trestles
will cause him to incur a daily. Oh, I don't know. >> Bring me back up to speed. In other words, we're so adamant with those pressuretreated realings on that we're
we're going to now let you fine. >> If they're not removed and replaced with whatever you come up with, >> whatever I come up with. >> That's interesting. Now, I bring the um photos and whatnot related to railroad type Right.
>> He had all kinds of different things from old bridges from estate fencing to s there was a multitude of different >> You're going to have to talk to the applic as a member of the commission. He's
going to bring alternatives to us >> to discuss. Yeah, >> we're not doing you don't you can't do the application and but we'll tell >> you have a discussion with the individual or the applicant >> so we can move it ahead and >> right
>> yeah soing back >> and I will do at point me representing on >> that's a good idea >> and because there's never been any kid that drowned off those trusses
>> they do not have to be falling off twice on my bike going through. >> Well, you had no care on your bike. >> Shouldn't have been on it. >> Yeah. >> So, that's why I didn't say deal cuz that's the first thing I heard. >> You shouldn't have been doing anything. That's >> right.
>> And today, the rail trail does not go there. up on the side. >> And I really think we have to read it because a lot of people do not understand that that the rail trail does not go from the church to the >> There is some misunderstanding.
>> They choose not. >> I like what I'm hearing. >> I do think we're finding ways to make some resolve and get everybody going in the right direction. And I and I'm going to keep pushing these three gals to say, you know, the turf really needed to come
out pretty decent. It does look because it really does. >> That's the point. >> I know. I know. I'm trying to get you know stick in the free musketeers. Can we just go forward? >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. So, um I have a job. You have a job for November meeting.
>> Um next. >> I've got a life. >> All right. So, we always >> Okay. So, you're going to report to us on fines next time with Jared Win and uh James, you're going to get with the
architectural. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Like where and get us pictures, >> right? >> Earlier than the schedule. >> We can if you want if you don't want to push it off and we can have another meeting if you want. Why not?
>> I'm not here next week. Well, not the next week. >> When did you say Jeremy was back? >> 14th, >> which is mid next week. >> And then >> Oh, then after the 20th. >> Yeah. >> I don't know how much we'll have within.
Let me see like maybe the end of the month like in three days. >> Well, that's all we're doing. Then we can help them with Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. That sounds >> who will reach out to the other towns as
to I mean I got to go to Dunable if I want to see the other brothers. So uh think I should pop into th see where they are with their historic district. Are they finding where what how >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So I'll go visit George. Then I go to
the town hall which I like down. I really like >> What town is that? >> That's right. >> They're the ones that have the big cow on the barn. >> Right. I'm familiar with them >> and they're great guys. Well, they own the property across the street from me. So, you and George always come up and
>> What are you doing, Jim? Well, nothing now that you're here. Come on, let's have a cup of coffee. >> Okay. What we're going to do >> I love those. >> Back on track. >> We're going to talk this educational course. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah. Stay with us. Have you been online at all your classes? >> Oh, I don't do what? >> Oh, for the >> You're not Three of us are all set. Claire is not.
>> Claire, you got to what? >> No, it was Susan. >> Susan's all set. Her name's on here. >> I'm all set. I mean, I've gone through my ethics training. >> Susan's all set. Susan's all set. I'm all set. I think you are. >> I'm all set. Yeah,
>> you're in here, right? >> Yep. Yeah, you are. >> What? >> But Claire is not >> what class do you feel like? >> No, this isn't quite >> ethics training. >> This is your being on a board. Any board in
town? Any board >> or so? Yeah, I'm all set. >> Are you still on? Are you listening to us or are you just autopilot? >> I would go for a review of freshman whatever. >> When was this done? This was done last round. Why he's not listening?
>> There's gonna be something at the town hall on that 11. >> They did that. >> They already did it. Oh. >> Oh, this says >> all right. >> August 29th, 2025. >> Digital learning completion status summary. Uh, >> but that's only on the digital. So, if
you did it not on digital and we won't be on that and I think you did it not digitally in the she's not in the well before. This is new this digital business. But this is how we've done it. >> Yeah. For all years. >> Are you dead? >> Years.
>> I don't know that. >> I think there's a new portal. >> They sent you notices. >> Yeah, they send you. They send you >> Harrison. Are you still with us? >> Harrison, >> I am.
>> Okay. We have a question about the um activity with the license with the ethics commission and the review sheet. the digital learning. >> Okay. Sure. Here, let me come to the other room. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Um >> the ethics commission >> and conflict of interest. Hi. We just need some >> Sure. >> tutorial on the um portal like if you're not on like Claire's not on you here.
>> Yeah. So um the state ethics commission website um has a page if you just Google state ethics commission training Massachusetts. It'll come right up and you'll be able to sign up and access that portal um to complet.
>> Yes, that started in 2023. >> Okay. and the rest of us are on >> and just make sure you pick towns and as your town in the system cuz otherwise you still won't be on the list even if you've done it and we see this a lot if you were an employee for another town and you moved to towns and you know you
might forget to change it in the system to >> they did that to me because I did for NRPC >> yeah so yeah you might have been in their system and you just had to switch it to town >> right so Harrison this says finance committee council on aging but it doesn't say historic assist you. Does
that matter? >> That doesn't make a difference as long as you've done it. And that's based off of what you put into it. So, I think the system makes you Well, well, someone's got it blank. So, it it may or may not require you to put in what board or department um you put you put in. I've
seen some people just put various if it's um that doesn't make a particular difference. As long as you do the training and you pick towns in, then you're good. And you can, as far as I'm aware, they made it in the system. So you can pick multiple towns or entities.
So if you're, you know, let's say you're involved with MRPC and the town of Townsen, you can pick both. So that way both the towns and MRPC can see your results. >> That's clear. >> So CLA, you got to go online and check them out. And if you need an extra hand, we're
working on getting um a terminal in the clerk's office, a laptop or desktop or something so that people can come in and the training, we can help, you know, get get you through that. So, we'll we'll have that available soon. >> Yeah, Sabrina helps. She gets me set up with >> Yeah.
>> Margaret sometimes on >> different webinars upstairs in the office. Just easier for me to do it because she can get to it easier in my life. >> Yep. >> Exactly. So yeah, we we'll be able to help um you know, fairly soon. I think we're expecting that laptop to be set up
in the near future. >> She had said something about that'll be for even you come in sit and do it if you didn't. I'm all set. >> For me, it's a counseling. >> Okay.
>> This is just a >> Are you with the council agent? If you guys lost her name, I'm gonna get you. I should >> Okay, don't say
>> she was one of the assistant counselor. She helped me with that. >> Does there have to be a vote? Yes. No. No. Because what I'm doing is every time somebody comes to us in the historic district
that's going to do work, whether they need to have us vote or not, because if it's in kind, >> you don't have we don't have to vote on it. >> I don't understand that. Why wouldn't you just vote that everything was okay? You got to vote to sign it.
>> We can do that. Um, this one came in when there was nobody here, so I couldn't get sign. So, I as the chairman, I approved it, but I want to have everyone ratified that that approval was okay. >> I'm happy to do that >> because I just don't want to look like
I'm trying to do everything myself. And the other thing is, um, but is that allowed for you to do? >> So, just because you're chairman, you can sign without anybody else >> on Go ahead. >> No, you go ahead. >> Only on inind replacement. That in the
the 40C. >> Yes. Well, that's in our POS. >> When you say in kind >> like they want to put clapboards up >> in kind. They're not doing vinyl siding. They're replacing wood for wood. >> Yeah.
>> The historical society >> and that would be 72. >> Yeah. Yep. >> If they stay in kind, >> we put they're in kind. They're in kind. >> Yes. Right. You can do that. Yeah. >> I'll make a motion. wouldn't make us it wouldn't it wouldn't
make sense to come for a meeting when it's already something that's we determine is is all right to do >> which is better approval >> we as a committee authorized the chairperson if it's in kind because to
come to a meeting to to bring that together when it's already a moving point that's >> okay so you you you're stating this like you've already done this before so at one time you have in your minutes that you voted for the chairman to sign any
applications. >> I believe so. Am I supposed to >> 1970? I think. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know the date though. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Because here's the reason you don't have to have approval to do in kind. But since I
>> So in other words, it's the level the board is being done doesn't warrant a full meeting. Okay. you make a simple, straightforward, understandable decision. I >> I changed it up a little bit. I want to have for every piece of property that's in our district, I want to make sure we
have written paper trail of what they've done. So, the reed house is now just changing the clapboards. We don't have to have a meeting on it. I can sign off on it. They don't even they just have >> in other words, to a degree, is it a replacement of the exterior?
>> So, I'm going to file this. So if anyone ever pulls the reed house 20 years, they can see when the clapboards were replaced and what was used >> just to keep a record. >> Okay. >> So it's just part of the minutes then. >> So I got it.
>> Well, I would like to sign to just to I you don't have you don't have >> And then you It's not dated either. When did you sign it? You But you signed something for him uh back in September. >> Oh, yeah. I've already um Janet already has it cuz cuz of course they needed it
right away. So um >> but that should be in our minutes cuz >> it's in our minutes and I I clocked it in with the clerk's office and I gave one to Gan. I just saved it out for us to get signatures but if you don't want to sign it >> doesn't matter. So in question about
when you say if the rehouse was going to do boards and changing, they would be just allowed to do it in vinyl. >> No, not in vinyl. No, they can't do that. >> So that's what I'm saying. You would require them to be replaced in in wood,
whether it's pine, redwood, cedar, etc., etc. >> The commission the commission has allowed vinyl. Well, we know that because we just saw all the work that was done in West Townsen. >> No, that wasn't final. She did. That's all. It was It was
>> Oh, no, no, no. That was It was It was the rectory. >> I say that for a specific reason. >> Yeah, we had a lot of trouble with that. >> You know, I see all the work that gets done in West Towns, in the harbor, in the center. So, >> all right. >> Where did we miss? What did we miss
there? This is the medium you had between all the compromise. So this is the stand. >> Oh, so you did you were able to work something. >> So in other words, the show area with the big glass still white
>> and the Catholic church rectory which burned. >> Were you here when the rectory burned? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So the commission did approve and allow them to do something to do >> now. My file change
>> that >> and also the Methodist church was was approved years ago because they couldn't afford to keep clapboards up and they did >> right and they got rid of the spinful swing. >> Yeah. >> All right. The educational >> right let's move to the educ
>> has to do with the education >> my Sunday school class by I said >> okay n so I think once we start these classes you're going to learn tremendous amount I did not bring with me the course courses but I will bring it and
we'll pick what class we want to see and I would really like us to review it together >> so that we can talk about it and and push our ideas around and see how we >> class I know a year ago. >> I know >> what classes >> these are webinars that the historic
commission Massachusetts Historic Commission has put out and they deal with different topics within our district. >> Do you know how long each one is? >> They're not more than an hour. So I've taken >> I would say maybe 45 minutes.
>> Okay. Okay. So, we have to plan a two-hour meeting or I think that should be the meeting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Quick report and then the meeting because there's no sense dragging >> and you'll leave a little time at the end of the meeting to
>> just for a chat feedback >> just so we can be on the same page. >> That's a good idea. >> And I I just think it would help us. There's some really good ones. The architectural ones are really good. The um what was that? Um when we were dealing with the church to
have a church, there was an issue of when a building becomes obsolete. What do you call that? >> Oh, she said I had it until you said obsolete. >> I'm sorry. So something about the building is obsolete. So there are certain rules that you can follow to
bring it up to. It doesn't have to be exactly the same. >> Make it usable. >> It's usable. >> So in other words, it's out of compliance. that it's not able to be >> you want to make that might be a good one to start with. >> That's Yeah. Yeah. Um >> which one is that again?
>> The one she's talking about with the complaints >> that are obsolete. Obsolete buildings and and what you're allowed to do, what what's allowed and what's not allowed >> to be able to bring it back to life. >> Library. But I went by the HUD library.
So the hut library >> was that is that considered >> it's a building but it's not >> 60s invite somebody >> that's a lot to clean up. No, I know. I've been in it and I I
>> for a dollar >> as is. You have to get rid of the insect that's inside. >> Yep. >> And the mold and the asbestous and everything else. It's Well, that's why we can't >> It is cost to be able to do that with
foundation. I was just in there last month and I was just like, foundations, it's all over. >> So, it was too far advanced. That's my first >> bank. Then we'd go over and do my book work over at the library. >> And Mrs. Teddy,
the first class >> and we're going to do the Mrs. Hail >> and Mrs. Hale the next librarian. >> Now sleep you, but I don't. What time is >> Mrs. P was my uh at the church? >> It's more than 4. It's 4:35.
>> All right. So, I want to just hand out. >> This is a handout that is examples of other towns that give letters to their historic district people. This is just for your information. This is not this
is in place of a postcard. Correct. Now, one of the reasons we have to do something about the postcard, we might have to go to a letter is because we have no more money and we didn't get appropriated our $500 this year. >> Why? We should have a bake sale somewhere. >> Maybe we could do a little financing.
>> Let me think about that. That's a good idea. >> They do bake sales during an election. I used to >> Oh, we have no elections coming after >> Oh, yeah, we do. >> Um, yeah, let me think about that. That's a good idea, Susan. >> To do that, >> I think so. You just got like select
board permission to have it in the entryway come in register and have food or >> little bags of cookies and stuff. >> Yeah. >> Might earn $125. >> Exactly. >> Donations >> or more donations.
>> Donations. Yeah, they were donations. >> Donations actually are the >> I've seen people a lot of money for just one cookie before. >> You did something like this. You could do a two-sided well two-sided with some length as if you're going to mail it.
Either that or you have something ready for the election and you have a handout that >> which is only printing it off versus mailing >> mailing. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> Mailers are expensive everything. There's nothing we're doing right now
that isn't >> so we're I will bring forward at our next meeting um broad >> no I know that but we just >> they're just examples we've got ideas from the store
>> so can I bring one more forward >> all right go ahead >> what can we do to find some with that granite wall that was put up Is there is there some type of we like
it but this cannot go on anymore. So in the future we will because I was under the with the owner it was a replacement >> building inspector felt as though it wasn't anything other than it was in
replacement. >> Yeah. But he was wrong. >> Yet again was a replacement. The other half was in the two different properties there. >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah. But when you're saying kind, how can you replace with something that's only going to last another 10 years after you replace it with what was
there, which was deco concrete blocks that that will last >> those should have lasted longer, but they weren't put up installed professionally. >> I Yeah. Yeah. That was just a home order. Let's do the best we can. >> Right. Well, I mean, I think that that I
think we're stuck with it unless we want to take enforcement that we're stuck with it >> to remove it. >> But that would I I'd have to say that would almost be just a great amount of disappointment for everybody. >> No, it would just be a great amount of
disappointment for the own. It wouldn't disappoint me one bit money, >> but at the same time, >> it's so flagrant. It's just >> Well, the whole idea is that it's you know what it is? It's like we're out in the bank. over just saying it isn't really the wall that is frustrating. the
way. >> Well, the sex law could have come in front of us and said, >> "Oh, it's we're going to do this this." >> Yeah. Repeat offender. Repeat offender. Repeat offender. >> So, we've got something we've got to work on. >> Do you want me to go in that direction with that
>> with working with that person? >> We should not talk about that tonight. November 13th is the next put it on the next meeting because >> No, because you know what? >> As you wish. bring ideas like you just did with the rails.
>> I have an idea to to have a discussion and see if we can get everybody on the same >> that's that's for fun. >> Would that be better to say >> this way >> and more receptive? >> Let me get >> if I can get move towards that.
>> Yes. Our next meeting >> is going to be November 14th. 13. >> Thursday, >> you know, I don't want a good, >> you know, on my own person this November. >> It's wrong. It's wrong.
>> Mhm. >> Is that terms or something? >> I have no problem. >> No, no, no. It's totally 26. >> Is there is there elections this year? Oh, no. I don't think so. I don't think so either. No, I think he's doing all kinds of stuff.
>> So, when are you talking about election? meeting in April. >> Oh, he just asked if they were elected. >> Oh, Susan. Yeah. >> Yeah. I had to do that at the next town meeting, not necessarily election. >> Okay. Town meeting.
I think that's what it was said. Is there any other business? Can I just ask to get my phone on time? November 13th is going to be our next meeting. Correct. That's right. When does it?
>> November 13th of the second Thursday. >> But are we having a minute prior to that? >> I thought we wanted to do the webinar >> class, >> right? And just a quick discussion after that. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, we'll do the historical class
and be an office at the end of it. >> You want do you want to do that in like the end of >> whenever whenever you want to? What are you talking about? >> The webinar for the >> Oh, you did the >> the webinar for this all of us
>> or not not the master is commission commission. >> So that would be >> Jen remember her. She did these on >> that would be the 23rd. >> No, she did them. She did them. >> October 3rd, 23rd. >> I don't know.
>> We could do it. Can we do it on Zoom? >> Should be >> I don't know. If I'm here, if I'm here, >> uh, David, >> if I'm here >> and it's on this >> screen,
>> can you all see it? >> The webinar. >> Just come here and do it. >> Yeah, why not? I can see it here. >> Dave, are you here? Everyone's abandoned us. >> Yeah, this is
Green left. >> Okay. >> Do you want a motion? >> Yes, please. Make a motion that we adjourn the meeting at 4:40 p.m. I second that. May I please have a vote? Quick, yes.
Susan Berkin, yes. James, yes. Laura Shiffren, yes. Mary, yes.