Okay. It's >> like a Russian egg box. You know those dolls? >> Yeah. >> Is that what that is? Yeah. >> Okay. Um, good afternoon everybody. Thank you for attending.
I am Laura Kathy. Um, I guess I want to open the meeting. And it is 3 No, I got to wait a minute. What time is it? 3 259. Don't want to open at precisely 3. How
exciting is that? It's 3:00. I'm going to call the meeting to order of the towns and historical district commission on this Thursday, December 11th at 300 p.m. Could I please have a roll call? >> Jerome Zeke is here. Glad to be here.
>> Laura Shiffren here. Laur um I think I can speak for myself. Laura Shiffron virtual. >> Okay. One, two, three, four. So, we have a quorum. >> Is it okay that I said the table? Mhm.
>> So, we have a quorum. This meeting is being recorded by TCAM. And I believe we have another recording person, Cindy Kang. Is anyone else recording this meeting? Hearing nothing.
I'm assuming that's it. I, the chairman, have no additions or deletions. Does anyone have an addition or deletion that they want to add? I do. You do? Okay. What is it? Couple weeks ago,
the town clerk sent out an email to board members requesting ideas or suggestions for hiring and increasing the volunteer
list. Okay. And I'd like us to address that. Oh, okay. Okay. We're not going to do that right this minute, Claire, because we have all these things to get through. >> That's fine. >> So, we'll deal I mean, if it gets too much, we'll have to put it on another meeting cuz we don't want to stay here
until 7. >> No. >> Okay. But thank you for bringing that up because I did receive that and I think it's important that we participate. >> Um, now we have to wait. >> Can I make a point of order? >> Yes. >> I just want to suggest that you put that
on a future agenda so that you don't violate the open meeting law. That's not an urgent matter. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Cindy. >> Thank you, Cindy. >> Okay. >> I don't know who that is.
Is that Lori? >> Okay. Yeah, Lauren. Okay. So, we have 14 minutes to kill here. Um, I'm trying to see if there's anything. Oh, I think we can do this quickly.
I would like to make a motion to take an item number eight out of order. And that item is to recommend appointment of Kathleen Sparford as alternative member of HDC. I'd like to second that motion, then make the motion. I'll make a motion to
appoint Kathleen Sparford as alternative member to the HDC. I have a second. I'll second. and any discussion. >> Yes. >> Uh Laura Shiffren, I just because things are getting very uh we're always
reminded now that you need to state your name when you make a motion. So, if you're the first, you state your name. If you're the second, you state your name. And then in the roll call vote, you state your name and then vote.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Do >> you want me to do it over again? >> Yes, please. >> Um Gerald Mazakus 84 Highland Street. I make a motion to assign Kathleen. >> I'm sorry. >> Kathleen as the alternative um member.
Thank you. May I have a second? Click second the motion. Thank you. So, just to bring you up to date, James, we jumped ahead. The 3:15 is going to be our um public hearing on
sign request for Darn Lacious. >> Lacious. >> Yes. But what we're doing is we're jumping ahead and we're doing number eight on our agenda. Oh, hi Maria. How are you? >> Great. How are you chair? >> Oh. Um and so different. We want to
recommend a motion has been put on the table that we recommend appointment of Kathleen Spaford as alternative member of HTC. >> Meaning because there's a absent member, she's taken that person's place. >> No, we need two alternatives. We only have one right now and and Kathleen is
going to be the second. >> Okay. So, you're not taking the place of Mrs. Kirk and then >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, cuz I'm not I won't be appointed yet. >> Okay. >> This is just a recommendation to send in.
>> I got you. All right. >> That's okay. You weren't here. Um do you have an agenda >> uh in my email? >> Thank you. So, we jumped ahead to 8 because we have to wait till 3:15 to start the um public hearing.
>> So, may any further discussion on Kathleen's appointment? >> I think it's a good idea. Kathleen, this is Maria Milan. >> Maria, nice to meet you. >> Um, Kathleen is our former clerk of court
>> and she's very versed in all the statutes and >> rules of the municipality. >> Maria is new. She is with um Dunl no DF Murphy. >> DF Murphy. Yeah. >> Insurance and Oh,
>> but she's a town resident. Okay. >> You live in town, right? I have to >> Do you remember your address? >> 312 Main Street. >> Okay. >> All right. Time's in. >> Yeah. We're going to take a vote now. >> Just a quick test. We like to run
through them. She got it. I mean, both of the questions correct. Outstanding. >> Okay. Then may I please have a vote? Roll call. Jerzigas. Yes. >> Alpa, yes. >> James Dean, yes. >> Maria Milican, yes. Thank you. It's
approved. Kathleen, welcome to our >> Well, no. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Lori. >> I can abstain if you like. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Abstain. >> That's okay. It >> will abstain. >> Okay. >> Maybe.
>> So, Kathleen, welcome to the uh board. >> Well, it has to go up. >> Well, I know, but we want Thank you. >> Yeah, we've got the vote of confidence of the members. And as usual, the selecting the nominating >> appointing. Yeah, we have to appoint
>> but it's good to be vetted. >> Um Jane, you know, to have um get that to Sabrina as soon as possible so we can get that on the agenda for the 18th for the select board. >> Thank you for reminding me. >> And I as a select board member. So
>> correct. We understand. Um, now I guess how many more minutes do we have? I'm trying to push us out of here. >> 307. >> 307. 15 take away seven is what? >> You want to do nine? The appointment of
the HTC board member to comm board member to the community preservation committee. Does everybody know what the preservation committee is? >> No. >> Okay. Lauren,
>> um that's uh in relation to the I believe um the CPA. Cindy, I'll I'll be stand corrected if you know. >> You're asking me for sure. It's a it's
the committee that's been that has to be formed in order to spend all the money that they're going to collect on the CPA tax that we're going to be paying starting in February. >> Thank you. And um James, were you appointed for the conservation?
>> Um that I think I will be. It was just a matter if I wanted to take and be on six, five or six different boards, but I don't >> Well, it's just a buffet. Well, I'm I'm in. >> Um, okay. So, I I would say that and
also um it's not going to be a heavy lift, just as an explanation. It's going to probably be um led, if you will, by Vicky Tidman, the assessor, who will be the most um
informed about it. >> Okay. I'm going to talk to Jimmy later on today about a violation on something on on the road and I'll tell them I'll tell Jimmy that I will um be coming from conservation.
Yeah. Wait a minute. >> Well, I want to get back to the one for HDC. Okay. >> So, >> um >> Yeah. Wait a minute. >> As soon as you nominate somebody again, that's why I explained it's not a heavy lift and you will be guided through.
It's a new process for towns in so it's going to be new to everybody. Okay. Except Vicki will be very well verssed in it and it's per the makeup of how that committee was formed
as to who represents from what as to what committees get represented. >> Right. Right. >> I hope I made myself clear. >> Yeah. So the cliff note on that is that it's going to be a tax on our real estate 1%. And that will be put aside
for the purpose of recreation, housing, and historic >> building. And was there any form of the environment and conservation also in that? >> No. >> Okay. So I I didn't get as much information as I just got now from you
and Lori with it. That's why I kind of stood back from saying I definitely will do it. But >> yeah, gladly. Yeah, because but I'm not sure if conser conservation has to put someone on the board. There's a whole list of people that have to put someone on the board. So, that being said, do I
have an um volunteer? It says required members. There's five. I'm just I Googled it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but we already know that. >> We have We already know that. We need to appoint one person to represent our uh board
>> and I have to step away from that. >> That's okay. You got to just catch me. >> I don't know. >> Make a note. >> Okay. I'll volunteer. >> Thank you, Mary.
>> Let's Let us You want to stew on it? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm willing to consider it, but I don't really understand much of what it involves. >> Well, that's part of municipal. >> So, it's new. No, everybody's everybody's new.
>> That's why I kind of got a little apprehensive to say that we'll put this on the agenda for next time and everybody can become acquainted with the pro the program, more research. All right. >> So, do you want a motion to table it to the next meeting? >> Yes, please. Yeah,
>> I make a motion that >> I was going to do a second, but James I motion to um table this to our next meeting in >> what would be January? >> I don't have a date right now, James. It'll happen before the end of the night.
>> Oh, you're not sure when just yet. >> I know it's the third Thursday. I'll tell you. >> Okay. Contingent. >> Contingent to the decision when the meeting will Jan 8. >> That's the second Thursday. >> That's it. January 8th, right? >> Okay. >> Okay. So, I have a motion on the table
to I have a motion to table the appointment of the HTC board member to this community preservation committee. Do I have a second? >> Jerome second. >> Thank you, Geraldine. Any discussion on this? >> Okay. Can we have a vote to table it?
Jerome Z. Yes. Table it. >> Cla. Yes. >> Kathy's not in this. >> Oh, that's right. James, yes. Maria Milikin. Yes. Thank you very much. Oh, Laura. >> Oh, Lori. >> I know. I keep forgetting she's not
here. She's not there. >> Yes. Virtually. >> Okay, great. Thank you everybody. It was Carrie. Now we have exactly 3 minutes before >> in 3 minutes. Can we think about maybe
um are you guys definitely set on the 3:00 time frame for your meetings? >> Well, that's what when we first started that was good for everybody's problem. >> Well, I I work, you know, it's it's a busy time and I have kids, but I know
that our other member who hasn't been able to come, she works every Thursday. >> Yeah, you had told me then. >> Um >> Jen Ravallet is her name. >> Yeah. Um, she's in the soccer program. I know her. >> Really good day for me. >> Okay.
>> It was a good soccer. >> I mean, this was a good day. >> I mean, truth be told, only reason why I'm here today is cuz we're not putting strong if it if we were finishing up. And if it was in the summer, you wouldn't see me at 3:00.
>> Let's put that on the agenda. >> I really struggle with if we could think about it. Yeah, we'll definitely think >> and I'm retired, so I have all the time in the world, but I don't. I mean, I don't know how songs. >> All right, I'm going to put that on me, J. Thank you. >> So, do you have any suggestions?
>> Yeah, evening. Yeah, like evening. Okay. >> Know what evening? Cuz a lot of us are are on different board. >> Yep. That's what we're going to think about. We're going to put our heads together. >> Wednesdays for me aren't good. Tuesdays aren't good. >> I'll go back to having fun because we have to open up the meeting.
>> Okay. So, we are going to open up the public meeting. Oh my goodness. Um, at 3:15, the board members present are chair Mary Jane Churchfell, member Carolyn Mazikas,
Claire Cowie, James Dyan, Maria Milikin, >> yes, and Laura, >> and Laura Shiffren. I keep forgetting Laura. I'm sorry. It's out of sight, out of mind. I'm sorry. So, I'm going to pass around the sign in sheet.
I'm going to get a um sign in sheet. >> Does it have to be line? >> Well, it's easier that way, but it doesn't have to. >> Is there a rule about line paper? >> Line paper. Sorry. >> There's no rule. I mean, I could give
you one of my pieces of one. I'm not I don't mind sharing. >> Are we signing in? Oh, the guest. >> The guest. >> The guest is here. >> He's a guest. >> Yeah. That's Don. >> Oh, you're a guest. >> Hi, Don. >> Don, do you want to come up and get
>> introduced? Sure. >> So, you just need my name, my signature, and my address. >> Yes, please. >> And um the left thumb print >> and my first born. >> No, Ros. I would rather give over my youngest.
Okay, let go on side. She's a guest. My neighbor. >> So, what we are discussing this afternoon is an application by Don Lacius and she is at 422 Main Street. Does everybody know where that is?
>> Settle shop. >> Yep. >> Settle shop property. She is going to be opening a bridal shop there. which is very exciting for town. Very exciting. >> And >> I'm at the edge of my seat about it, being honest with you. I just didn't
want to let in. >> All right. I'm not going to let you go. >> So, uh, Kathy wants to >> And she has a request in for signage. >> Now, think about what's there right now.
She wants a magnetic door sign. She's also asking for the wood sign that's presently up there to be a part of that, but that's going to be part of our discussion. Sure. And she wants to put sandwich boards out front. Those are her three or just one. Okay. One sandwich
board. Those are her three requests. So, I like to take things one at a time because the other one then there's no convolution. Everything's clear as a bell. But before we start, I want everybody to know that nobody's
here for this meeting. I only received two. Do you have the letter from Phil? >> I do. >> Okay. I received two responses from the people that I sent the notice, the public hearing notice. >> Did you need a response from Phil? >> Yeah. Well, I just I like to get the
responses so I can put them in the file. And she has bills. >> Excuse me. You have the outline for the public hearing. >> Okay, I got it right here. >> I think you have to state the legal notice first and then the applicant
presents if I remember the order. >> Didn't I present the >> No. >> Okay. Um Okay. This public hearing is being held for a certificate appropriateness requested
of Phil Kamea and Don Lacius for signage to be put up at 422 Main Street, West Towns and Mass, 01474, which is front retail space, fronting on Main Street. That's what that means.
Number one, she wants a magnetic door sign 5T >> 5 in >> 5 in by 22 in a white sign with black lettering that will say the bridal muse. Her second request is for a wood Aztec
sign. >> Wood/ASC, which is a >> Oh, okay. >> wood/ AAC, which is a material. >> Correct. He's a good >> to hang beneath existing fault and sage sign 1 ft by 4 ft
would hang from hooks. Sign would read the bridal muse alterations in boutique white sign with black letters. The third request is for one sandwich board sign 24 by 36 in freestanding with a poster
board inside and she has images attached. Everybody has a copy of this. >> So, um, that being said, nobody being here to oppose. Um, I would like Don to speak and let us
know what the scope of her request is. Do you want me to just talk about the science? Do you want to hear a little bit about what I'm doing there? >> Well, a little bit I think we should know about what you're doing. >> Yeah, perfect. So, um, I am a seamstress. I do I've done vital alterations for most of my life. Um, and
I have recently decided to expand that sculpt a little bit to include some vintage restoration and things of that nature. So, I will be selling some gowns as well. So, um, the saddle shop space became available um, which sounded amazing to me. I grew up in West
Townsen. I grew up as a child going to the saddle shop. So, when I knew that that space was available, it just seemed like that would be super place for me to be. My previous location was just down the street at um Bill Schultz's building. >> Oh yeah.
>> And I was on the second floor in an office building. No real retail visibility. So that's why I decided to take the sale shop space which I am really honored to be in because it feels super historical and uh part of my history. So I love being there. Um in
fact when I hear that little bell on the side door brings me right back to when I was about 10 years old. As you open that door, did you hear that familiar ring of the bells? >> So, I have a question. >> Yeah. >> So, as the layout of the building, you have the settle shot with the the bow window where the actual thing was. Then
we have the little connector >> where there's a little black door that's >> right in the middle. And then we have the great big picture window, which are you taking over the whole entire building? >> No. So, they did a little subdividing of it. So, um, so let's say we're walking
into the front door where there's the two bay windows on either side. That room looks exactly the way it always has. If you recall, there was sort of a ramp that went off to the right. Um, >> which the ramp is still there, but it's
completely closed off on the end and there's a door cuz it doesn't connect to that other house anymore. So, they sort of build like a wall. So, that's basically just like cold literally cold storage. So, that's not really part of it. Then if you were to go straight ahead, do you remember that you would sometimes enter into the saddle shop
from the side door? >> So now when you enter into that side door, you're kind of walking into almost a I guess I would call it an open greeting meeting type of space. Um, and then the candle maker is beyond
that. So >> the candle maker, >> the candle maker that's in the building, >> okay, >> the candle manufacturer, whatever you want to call it, is also in that building, but towards the back. So I am just that space to the right >> where the plants and stuff were.
>> Exactly. The old salt and sage space. Well, I should say old saddle shop space. And then after that, salt and sage. >> So it's just from that black sliding door >> to the front. That's my space. So he's not going to open those glass that glass
front area where all the drapes are in the front of correct when you look at it. >> Oh, that's a house. >> That's where that's where he subdivided separated. >> Yeah, that's a house now. So I think Exactly. I think that's rented out as a house and it was attached by that ramp.
Yes, correct. >> And it was all part of there for the saddle shop. >> I wish. >> Okay. So now we know where you're going to be. Yeah. So the front space of the of where salt and sage was. >> So generally how many square feet?
>> I want to say it's about 300 >> less than a th00and process. >> Definitely. Right. >> I got you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. >> So the magnetic door sign will go on which the very front door. So it's sort of like a raised panel door. Uh maybe a
would that be called a nine light door or a 12 light door. So it's got the you know the window at the top half and then it's got the panels on the bottom. So, I was just trying to fit a sign in below where the window is, you know, and I said magnetic because the door is made
of metal paint and black. Looks wood, but it's actually >> magnetic. I mean, excuse me, it's actually metal. So, I thought magnetic. I the the things that I put down for signs, I mean, I'm I'm completely flexible to do what
what's appropriate. Yeah, we have some considerations on that. And then Salt and Sage is no longer there. >> Correct. >> So, how does that change your plan to hang below their sign? Because are they is Phil taking that sign down?
>> No. >> So, so did you get the email I sent you today? >> No. >> After we got off the phone, I I actually I totally have my phone with me. I took a picture of it of the existing sign. So, basically, it's the big wooden sign.
The top half says um Salt and Sage, and then the bottom half says Birch House Botanicals. Um Salt and Sage has moved out. That's where I am now. >> Wait here. You You put it in here. >> There's a picture.
>> After kind of talking to Phil, the owner of the building, he had mentioned because all the stage is no longer there. if I wanted to go over that upper portion of that sign and cover that up with my signage that that would be that
would be fine as opposed to me wanting to hang a little sign below it. >> Okay, I see it. >> Being that they own the building and I didn't know what they wanted to do with their signage. So, I just thought the easiest way is to kind of come in underneath, but >> it's the easiest way for all.
>> Is this botanical business? That's stain. Correct. Okay. So, so you'd be on top with salt all the sages. >> Yeah. I mean, that's just an option that they kind of um threw out to me. I wasn't sure they would like that. So, I
just went with, you know, going underneath. I was just trying to do the easiest. Doesn't mess with anybody's sign. Just put something underneath. >> They're not there anymore. >> That's a good question. No one took it down. It was just a room where you would
go in and absorb salt and >> your truck about salt and stage was an actual I actually feels like was running in >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Okay. Let's move on to the third sign.
This is going to be up before. I'm sorry. >> That sign is not an approved sign. >> No, I understand that. We're going to talk about that. I just want to go through the three that she wants and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty. >> All right. >> Um because we have to close the public
meeting before we do that, but you can stay. Please do. >> Okay. >> So, um the sandwich board sign. >> Mhm. >> So, that will be in the front like so in front of um the building, the front retail space.
>> There's a lovely brick patio area there. So, it's not the sidewalk. It's just outside of those windows. So, I would just kind of put it on there. I doubt I would put it out, you know, if bad weather or whatever. It's just something you can put in and out. It wouldn't be permanent on wheels.
>> What What's is it going to be? Sometimes those things are ugly. >> So, I gave you pictures of it. It's black. >> Really not much to get from looking at, but it is what it is. It's not a permanent sign. It's going to be something that you bring in and out of.
Yeah. Every day. >> It's not going to be left out overnight. So, I mean, it is what it is. >> Yeah. >> So, in other words, that would be what you would >> the water basic. So, that keeps it heavy.
>> You put water in the bottom. Yeah. I guess you doesn't blow away. >> That's cool. >> Oh, Jackson. I thought that was a monitor for computer. >> No. So you It's funny because the picture looks like sort of it's angled, but it it really is.
>> Yeah, it's like a rectangle. The way they took the picture, >> it's going to be black. >> It is black. Yeah. And then it's just got clear acrylic panels that you know, you put a poster board under >> and then it will be lettering. >> I think that's in there as well.
>> Let Yeah. My my entire um design is white with black already. >> Okay. >> Um I believe that was the sandwich board image. >> Oh, I see it. >> It appears ivory here, but it would just
be white with with black lettering. >> Oh, is that is it going to be like this, John? That's the one that goes to hang underneath. But that's the type style. So that's >> you're going to keep everything the same lettering, the same type lettering. Okay. >> Is that the type of a sign that you're
going to put over the sage and salt? In other words, what we're looking >> certainly certainly could >> that's the general >> it would be. Let me see. >> Muse. That's pretty much >> So this was sort of a diagram of what would go under here. I would propose
just putting that over and covering that salt thing. You >> serve two purposes at once. Whatever. >> Like I'm flexible. >> This, I believe, was what the wooden sign would look like that would attach
under the sign if we went that route. >> So that would be the same sign that you would now put where Sage installed. I mean, I I I I would say it would be the same exact design, but perhaps it would be a different material because I
believe that sign might be >> may even be like a laminate >> that's up there. >> Like something that maybe somebody did on a cricket or something like that. >> So, okay. >> Can I ask a question? >> Yes. >> Change to the board. I'm just trying to
feel out what the priority on signage is, what your expect. >> We're going to we're going to have an informed decision. >> We have to be we have to live with what?
>> No, no, we um Yeah, we're going to discuss that. Hold that. >> Okay. But it is one of the larger parts of responsibility as this commission of signage if it's it can't be a lit from
inside or light shining onto it. >> So here's the rule. You want to hear the rule now. Signs everyone has to listen to this. >> Signs of not more than one square foot in area. Oh, wait. That's residential. Forget that. One sign in connection with
the non-residential use of each building which is not more than 12 square ft in area consisting of letters painted on wood. I got this right here so everybody can have it. Painted on wood without symbol
or trademark and if illuminated is illuminated only indirectly >> meaning from in other words there's a sign a light shining up onto it. >> Correct. >> Okay. In other words, you do not want lit signs internally,
>> correct? >> To take You do not want >> no open signs blinking. You know how they do that in the bar? Absolutely. We don't want that. >> So, when I look at the brick store and I look at that array of signage, >> Yeah. Don't look at that because we have issues and we're going to talk about that. >> So, when I look at the brick store and I
look at the arrange the signage and everything like that, would they be no more under scrutiny than this individual now with this signage? They are under scrutiny. Every meeting we have we have done. >> Okay. So that's interesting. They have answered two questions at the same time
because >> I see question in that if we >> Right. I understand that and and it's unfortunate. >> I'm educating myself. >> Right. And it's unfortunate that we can't get better um >> responses >> responses and you know cooperation but
but we're not done with that. >> We're going to bring that up. We we're looking at that brick store as a work in progress. >> Correct. Nicely put. Yes. Thank you. >> So I think we've kept How long did I keep this? I'll let you talk for 16
minutes. That's good. So um we don't have anybody else. Wouldn't your issue about her sign? That will be in discussion >> after I close the meeting. >> Right. Does anyone else have anything else that we want to ask Don about her
application? I mean, other than >> Madam did you read into the record your public comments that you received? >> I didn't receive any. >> Oh, I thought you said you had two >> that came in
a butters whatever. >> Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. They said they weren't coming to the meeting. That's all it was. >> They don't have Oh, that's all they said. They didn't make a comment. >> No, no, no. They just checked a box that they weren't going to attend. >> I'd say
>> so. In other words, for this meeting, we had a mail. We had to do in the mailing. >> Yes, I did in the butter mailing and everybody got one and I got two back. No, three back because the Phil sent his back. But it was just it says, "I the person do hereby wave the need to attend
the public hearing schedule for Thursday the 11th at Memorial Hall Town and Mass regarding magnetic door sign wood/ something sign to hang beneath existing salt and sage sign. Sandwich board sign freestanding at the uh 422 Main Street."
I have one from Albert Cret. I have one from John Delaney. >> Okay. the >> Oh, wait a minute. Don is Phil Cullen also Dam LLC. >> Yes. >> Oh, I think that's how we signed it.
Okay. So, I have actually I guess I have four response cuz I sent one to >> Did I see one of the letterheads so I get familiar? This is what you would mail out. >> I got that from your Did Yeah. This is >> This is right. This is our new letterhead that we just implement. Well,
no, not really. >> All right, let's not get bogged down in like those kind of details. Um, that's >> So, that must have The waiver came with a a notice, correct? >> Yes, it came with this. >> They just mailed the notice. >> I got you. I got you. >> Oh, there was another
>> I was with a notice of the agenda. So, I just had to notify the people. You know this, James? When you were going to have a public hearing, you got to notify the abiders. That's what I did. No, I mean I'm the clerk on conservation, so I'm used to having a green card to read out opposed to this form of In other words,
that's why I asked to see this so I get familiar with it acclimate to how you can what you use. >> So, but now we're not even using this. It's all done electronically and we have the print out in the meeting. >> Oh,
>> things change. So, that's why I'm trying to get used to what you use to communicate the etc. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Cuz like I said, I don't >> I'd way much rather do it electronically. >> I don't like counting through all the green uh when we have 23 of butters.
Yeah. >> Interesting. Okay. So, I don't have that. So, um I read the mandatory read acknowledge receipt. I did. It's really check marking it. Thank
Okay. Laura, do you have any other um concerns you want to make and help us? >> I know she doesn't. All right. There's >> Can I unmute? Uh, no, I do not. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we have no public questions because we have no public here except for Dor. Um,
so we can Can I have a motion to close the meeting? Does anyone else have anything they want to ask of Dor? public hearing. I'll make a motion to close. >> Gentlemen, make a motion to close the
public hearing. I have a second Maria Milican. I'll second Maria. Any discussion on closing the public meeting hearing? None. I will close the public meeting with a vote. Gentlemen, yes. Go ahead. Yes.
>> James Goran. Yes. >> Maria Milican. Yes. I have to excuse myself. Okay. Yes. Virtually. >> Okay. Very good. Unanimous. Yes. Thank you everybody. The public meeting is now closed.
That's it. Now we're going to resume back into our regular meeting and I would like to start the discussion with a motion on each individual sign. I think that's the best way to do this
because it's not all it's not going to be a broad Yes. So, can I have a Do I have a quorum still? >> One. Okay. >> Okay. So, I have May I have a motion to
accept? I don't know how to do this um to be honest with you. >> You can motion what you need and I'll go from there. So move >> a motion to to vote on the first sign that will be the magnetic sign on the
door. >> So you're going to do >> you got to say your name? >> Yeah, I'm going to do all three individually. Yeah, cuz they all have different um issues. >> Could I have a motion for the door sign?
>> Uh sure. I'll take the motion. Is someone taking notes? >> Yeah, I am. >> Oh, okay. Um, I'll make a motion to vote on the magnetic door sign at 422 Main Street for the new wedding shop. >> State your name.
>> Maria Milikin. Sorry. >> Laura Shiffren virtually. I second the motion. >> Thank you, Laura. So, we're going to have discussion now. Everybody is familiar with the sign
requirements. Claire, do you want to help us with this? Cuz you've got the most experience. >> Um, well, it checks all the boxes. There's no symbol. It's less than 12 square ft and there's no lights. >> I know. We can only have one sign on this door.
>> So, you can only have >> Oh, one whole property. >> So, what? All right. So, well, this is a pointless conversation right now then because don't you have to take it up with the building owner who put the other sign up there already?
>> No, no, no, no. We're talking about the magnetic sign. >> So, I can only use one sign ever >> in the historic district. >> I'm sorry. I'm a little hard here. >> Okay. So, in the historic district, that's the rule. But we can discuss this. If it's magnetic, does that mean you can take it off
>> or does it mean it's got to stay? Is it screwed or >> No, I only selected magnetic because the tool is made of metal, but it does look appear to be a wood. You know, it looks like a traditional wood door, but it's metal. >> Gotcha. >> But it could easily not be magnetic if
that was a problem. But no, that kind of show you a little picture of like where that was was going to be located. It's fairly small. >> It is small. Um, it was just so that if somebody approaches the door, cuz I have no signage at all, they would kind of know that they're at the right location.
>> Well, because you have so many doorways on that building. I understand that and I appreciate that for you. Um, I my two cents is it's magnetic. It's removable. >> Unknown color. >> If you took it down,
um, when you're not open, when you're not Um, do you know where I'm going with this? It's not permanent. >> I mean, I agree with you. That's um if if I may be recognized. Um, >> yes,
>> I think the removal of it is probably what we allowed at the brick store in that he kept changing it or he took it off one day and put it back two days later, whatever. But I I think that your comment that
if you had it on, if the applicant had it on while doing business and expecting clients to be coming in, I would think that would be very appropriate as a directional of what door to go in. Just my two cents.
>> It's like an open sign. So you'd have to remember every time. >> I think I just will withdraw that sign. >> Yeah. Well, don't don't go. >> No, because there's no I I can't imagine that I'm going to not forget one night to pull my sign. >> It's not like we are going to find >> I know, but like if that's what I'm I
just feel like if I can only choose one sign and I have to that sign at night, then I'll choose the other sign and we can just that one. >> Of course you would. But I I want to hear from everybody about that because I I think it's legitimate that um I understand strictness and you know I'm strict about this kind of stuff.
>> Claire, can I hear from you? Are you going to be using the side door at all? >> I'm I'm I don't really My clients are supposed to utilize the front door. >> The front door. >> They could technically come through that way and knock on my other door and I couldn't let them in, but primarily they
come through that front door. >> That front door. I mean, >> I know we haven't discussed other signs, but I could put something like inside the window like just freestanding on my shelf or something like that that people could see if this was problematic.
>> Okay. So, if you look at your application and you'll notice that at the chart, it says you've got three. You've got certificate of appropriateness. >> Yeah. >> You've got a certificate of hardship and you've got a certificate of
non-applicability. Do you have that? >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, I'm suggesting that we change the application for the magnetic sign to be a certificate of hardship
based on the fact that you want the people to come through to your shop in the front door rather than the side. Cuz I I see where you were going, Claire, and I thought that was a good idea. But you're saying you want them to come through the front door. So this is more
of a identification of entry. >> Yes, that's what you're saying. >> It I don't want to say flies in the face of but it doesn't fit. >> Sure. >> But you need it to identify your clients of how to get into your business. So
you're I think you would be better if I can have everyone's okay on this. I think she would be better served if she asked for a certificate of hardship for this particular little sign. >> Mhm. >> Based on the fact that she does need it to direct her people to the shop.
>> Yeah. >> Madam chair. >> Yes. >> Would you uh are we allowed to do that now? Can we amend the motion for certificate of hardship? >> Yes. Yes, we can. Yes. And that would be
>> I would like to amend my second if the first will accept the amendment to issue a certificate of hardship >> and I speak to my amendment. >> That's okay. So, we are we certainly and
Mary Jen, you made the point, we do not want to cause a business to not be able to have their clients come to their door and I do see that as a hardship for the business. So,
I actually don't see um her having to remove the small sign that she's going to have there to direct her clients. >> Thank you. >> So, thank you, Laura. So, you you want to make the motion to amend her application to a certificate of hardship
for the magnetic sign. >> That's what I ship and made that do I have a second on that? >> James for one second. >> Thank you, James. Any discussion on that? >> Do you understand what we're doing? Okay, great. Um, can I have a vote,
please? >> Click. Yes. >> James Dorian, yes. >> Maria Milikin, yes. Mary James, virtually. Yes. >> Unanimous. >> Yes. Virtually. >> Now, now it's unanimous. Thank you very much. I'm very happy about that. Okay,
Don. You're good with the little sign. Thank you very much. >> All right. Now, not one yet. I'm going to go out of order on this because it's going to be easier. How do we feel about the sandwich line? So, can I please have a motion to accept or to issue a
certificate of appropriateness for the sandwich board sign 24 by 36 freestanding with poster board inside with an image to be taken in at night. >> So, it's not going to be there all the time. So, it's a temporary day thing.
>> And bad weather, I'm not putting it out. If you have shoveling, I'm probably not putting it out. >> Are you open five, six, how many days a week? >> I'm open mostly by appointment only. >> Oh, cool. >> Oh, so Oh, okay. So, this is interesting. So, you would only put the sandwich sign out when you were there
with your appointments >> or I'm there working, you know, or Okay. So, they wouldn't be out every single day from 9 to 5. >> I love my free time. Well, that's even better. It's It's going to be in limited
amount of exposure >> and it's not going to be out there all of the time. Now, will the verbiage on the sign change or is it going to be that >> pretty much would just have that made? >> Okay. So, one of the things that we're
not allowed to have if we read the directions is a sign with a symbol or trademark. a sign with what could you repeat that >> or a trademark? >> Oh, you mean something like that? >> Coca-Cola. >> It's like her drawing.
>> I call it artwork. >> Yeah, I like it. It's very beautiful. There's no question about it. However, we're in the historic district and we got to consider that. Um, if it if I can say it is always much lighter. It kind of fades into the background cuz the
design of it. The lettering is black and then this is like a a lighter gray. So, the sandwich sign's going to say bridal muse. >> Yeah, >> it's really just a background. >> I know, but it's a violation. >> Um, the picture part
is that a symbol. >> What What do you mean it's a violation in the eyes of the district? >> Massachusetts in historic district. >> Yeah, these are state. This is This is Mass General 146. >> Can I read that? And also uh it's our
bylaws are >> it's in our bylaws. Yeah. Yeah. Um >> clarify that for me clearly meaning that >> the size of it or the >> the picture the whole whole concept >> letters >> it is in bylaws that is considered
inappropriate unacceptable. >> I have a lot to learn. >> Oh yeah this is serious wood and people have not been >> No not that's not my point. I have a lot to learn. I do not take the board >> less than anything. >> So if you're reading this black and
white, it says letters painted on wood. >> Mhm. >> So then the whole thing is against the violation of your I don't get your point just about the symbol. >> I'm trying to give her a break here. >> I'd like to give her a break to have the
beautiful picture for her beautiful business. I'd like to know how becomes illegal like that for her advertisement >> in the historic district. We're not concerned with beauty concerning preservation of the district and what
was there and the signage is actually kind of a benefit. You know, it's a privilege. It's not expectation like you would downtown, you know, in the center of town. Um, so we have to be
true to what our mission is here and and what the rules of the Commonwealth are. Um, I don't know if we could pull hardship off that. Does hardship allow you to stray from this rule in part, but not? You gave her
hardship on the metal door because she needed direction for her clients, and I think that was appropriate. I'm not seeing that with the sandwich sign. I mean, how do you really want the sandwich? Do you love the sandwich sign? Does that do I love the sandwich board?
>> Yeah. Sign board or whatever. >> What would it do if you if we said no? How would that affect your business? >> I guess it would depend on the third sign. >> Yeah. Right. >> Cuz I I feel like if people were driving
by the little tiny sign that's on my door that sits pretty low, I don't think people would see that. I haven't seen that. >> So, I guess >> so that's why I'm saying if if I had the sign, you know, that was up that was bigger, then that wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. However, if I can't
have the big sign, nobody knows where I am >> cuz you know how I get people now. I say you can see the salt and sage sign. >> That's how I do want to switch back. Would it be appropriate at this time to go to the
big sign and then come back to the sandwich sign? >> I think so. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Then can I have a motion to um table the application for the sandwich board sign?
>> Click copy. I make a motion that we table the application for the sandwich board sign. M would you be as comfortable if you know you seconded it perfectly. Are you comfortable if I were to say so? Move so we don't have to repeat that. So we can
move a little. Okay, great. >> Say your name first. Say your name first. >> Yes, I realize that. That was a question. I'm sorry. >> So move. So I have it clear. Calpy made the motion. James Dorian seconded. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Can I have a discussion quick?
Thank you. Can I have a vote? Clin. Yes. >> James Dorian. Yes. >> Maria Milikin. Yes. your friend. Yes, virtually. >> Okay. So, good. We'll put that to bed for a minute and let's go to the big sign.
>> Okay. Okay. Claire, do you want to start or do you want me to with a motion? >> Yes. Oh, okay. I had coffee. Thank you. Make a motion that we address the
application for a sign for large sign of the bridal beams at 422 Main Street. >> I thought we were going to talk about Phil's sign. That's it. That's the one she's talking about. >> Correct.
>> So, um, you made a motion to address the large sign, the wood sign, >> right? would sign for the bridal muse as presented in the application. Uh Maria Milicanin, I'll second the conversation. Thank you, Maria. Can I
open the discussion on the sign? Now, a little history on the sign. Claire, do you want to do the history? The sign that's existing now. Please don't put up with our consent.
She never gave in front of us to present that. >> Did the owner go to the building? >> No. >> Department or anyone? >> I don't know. We don't know about that. No idea. >> So, I understand it just appeared one day. >> It did. >> Without the blessing of the historic >> That's right. >> Yeah.
>> This is terrible. >> It is. >> Well, it could have been an oversight. >> No oversight's in the historic district commission. >> Okay. Well, either way, that happened. Yeah. So, have we addressed that with the owner? >> Oh, no. They're gone. >> What's that?
>> They're gone. Oh, no. At the time. You talked about the time. At the time. >> Oh, so it wasn't the current owner. >> It is. >> No. Yeah. Yeah. It's gone. >> Let's get the right information here. >> Put the sign. >> No, it's Phil. I don't understand. It feels like there's really
>> responsible for that sign. What are you talking about? There's no sign. I mean, I'm trying to give you a history on the sign. You want it or not? >> So, where's Phil? He still owns property. >> I don't know where he is. He's not here. We're talking to Don. >> I can call him. So Phil is the owner of the building and >> and he put the sign up. Okay. Has Have
we discussed with him the fact that the sign is not legal or >> I don't know. I don't know. I can't answer that. I wasn't I I think I was told that it it sort of got in through default. >> I think you through the building department because something didn't quite happen on this and they slipped
through the cracks or something like that and were able to do it because there was no response. But he that is just not your problem. >> I think I think that's was said to me maybe like through going with the building department in down here and
something mentioned it might have been you that mentioned that something had happened that didn't >> that was me that told you heads up this might happen at that. >> Yeah. Okay. I knew I had heard it somewhere >> right. That was me. So Claire is correct and in part Darn is
correct. It slipped through the cracks under the commission and it was allowed to stay because it slipped through the cracks. I mean, if it stops up can't I mean once the 60 days passes and we don't make a decision then we lose the control.
>> So in other words that sign stands as grandfathered. >> No this is a new application. >> That's the sign that was grandfather. So in other words, oh boy ripped. >> No, but I'm just giving you said you
wanted the history, you wanted the facts and I'm giving them to you and we have to work around them as a workaround. We have to find it. But we can't ignore the fact that that doesn't exist as an issue for us. We can't just say so. >> So there's, as I understand it, there's no
we can't say to Phil, take it down, and he can't now come and apply for approval. Is that correct? >> But he's not applying. Dawn is. No, I realize that, but just backing up. She's a tenant. She's a tenant. >> Would it be easier in any way, shape, or form if I just asked for a different
sign? >> No, no, no, no, no. >> Because I didn't know. I just thought there's a sign there. It makes sense to maybe utilize that. >> It totally makes sense. >> Okay. But I would be so happy to do a whole separate sign. >> You only have one. I think I understand.
One sign per I'm totally flexible. I just tried to do what I was looking at was like what would look the nicest without adding another sign or >> doesn't it make sense for us to ask Phil if we can make alter the sign to fit within the rules
>> going forward? >> Oh, sure. Yeah. Well, I wasn't going to All right, if that's what you want to do. I mean >> I mean that's a reasonable next step, isn't it? It doesn't really affect you in a way.
Like it's not you're we shouldn't be dealing with you in a way. >> No, because it's Phil's sign. We should be dealing with her. It's her business. >> But it's Phil's sign. >> Doesn't matter. It's her business. >> But that's a hardship. That's a hardship for you >> if you can't put a sign up because the
owner broke the, you know, process. >> This is true. >> This is true. >> You have to hang on because it slipped through the cracks, >> right? I'd like to know how it slipped through the cracks for the room. >> I'd like to know how you guys are even using the verbiage. It slipped through the cracks. >> Yeah. What's that mean?
>> We have some pretty wide spaces going on here. >> I see vinyl siding on the building and that flew poster. >> No, no, no, no, no. We made a deal. No, no, no, no, no. That's not true. Uhuh. >> We made a deal. >> We absolutely We conferred with him. Hours and hours. It was a long thing. He
wanted a whole bill. No, I'm not going to go into that because that's not part of the agenda. >> We'll get back to >> I'll get back to you on that. Yeah. Go into the town clerk's office and look it up. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, we c we we bent over backwards for him and he was very cooperative, I want to say.
>> So, he was a very cooperative client. I >> Don needs a sign and um so >> when are you opening? >> I'm I am I am >> You're open. Like I said, I just I say I have no sign. Look for the sake sign. You'll
find that I get people in. >> Yeah. And and I respect that. I really do. >> I want to get back to the fact that we're looking at a sign that's illegal that we want to continue giving Dawn leeway for her
business because we want to encourage her business and we don't want to have tension. >> No tension. no tension. So, um, we've got to look at this with mature eyes and figure out a workaround that's going to
help her and help us. >> Madam Chair, >> yes. >> Can you state the illegality of the sign and how can we address a solution or a resolution?
What is the illegality of the sign? I mean, I know you're saying it's illegal, but I don't know why it's illegal. So, >> Well, yeah. If you would I I sent you a copy of Mass General Law 4C section. >> Lori, I think it's the size. Wait a
minute. Wait a minute. Hold it. One person talks to the sign. >> It's the size of the each building, which is the sign has to be not more than 12 square ft in area and consist of letters painted on wood without a
symbol. Mhm. >> Now, I'm not sure how big that sign is because I've never >> No. So, we'd have to ask Phil how big is that? >> Yeah, maybe you could ask Don. Maybe you could ask Phil that. But more importantly, is the picture the picture is the issue. Is the structure considered the whole sign or just the
top white sign? >> What would we be measuring? You know, >> the the just the white >> the white side. Okay. 3x4. >> I'd say it's about 3x4 because I was trying to get my sign to fit in between.
And what did I cuz I went out there with a tape measure. >> What's 3 by I I'm not sure by 4T. Oh >> 12 is 12 ft. So maybe it is pretty close. >> I I think it may be. >> Can you call him and ask him? >> Um
>> right now >> I think he's on the top of the hill from my house running a machine last I left. >> 1 ft by 4 foot is what I was proposing and I knew that that would have fit kind of like under there. That's I know that's there's um images is
>> images right here. Okay, let's let me read it again for those of you who are not getting it. 12 square ft in area consisting of letters painted on wood without symbol or trademark >> that doesn't have any. >> Right. That would fit. >> That would fit what?
>> Yeah. And I don't know. >> Now look at the one. >> They have like a fancy BB on there, but that's two letters. It's stealing yours. This is fine. You can do whatever you want with the print. The font is not the issue. >> The picture is the issue. But there would never be a picture on this sign.
It would just be that >> covering all the words of sage and salt. >> Yeah. There's no >> How simple is that? >> So that's what she's saying. >> And maybe an idea just I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not a historical person, but >> I could even h have this sign made
>> wood >> hang it under here for now. >> Mhm. And then when people iron, cuz it's going to be on cup hooks, like little eye hooks. >> Very simple. So easy. >> Then if we wanted to later, >> if people felt it would look better, we could move that up.
>> I I I like putting it up. I think you should I guess this is in in existence, that sign should come down. >> That makes sense, >> too. I do get people who stop by. >> Yeah. Put it right over. And then do we have
to talk to these other candle people? Is that that's bottom businesses? >> Still there. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, I mean I >> So the only part that would you know isn't there anymore is that sort of rectangular area and the top cover. >> The rest is still accurate to the
business that exists. >> This is so simple. Just cover it over with the bottom muse all through. And you know what we can do? >> Use really old antique wood. wood. Make it look really nice. >> This is shiny wood,
>> you know. This is like, you know, kind of like >> a shiny metal or a shiny >> I don't know that or it's probably wood and maybe it has like >> laminate over it or something. >> I I I don't want you to separate to me. I prefer that you don't separate
the two business sign. >> Yeah. Okay. >> With a with a um frame. Okay. Is that what you're suggesting, James? That we put antique wood where >> her sign? >> I just want to see her sign put over where it says sage and
>> we move on. This isn't anything so complicated. It it resolves covering a business that isn't there, which Mrs. Coffee just said it in a sense falls out. >> And then we just need to resolve the bottom. Okay. I don't want it to look like there's two signs there. That's my point.
>> But in that could make it look like that. two businesses. It doesn't say two businesses here. It says one sign. So, we can have one sign with two separate, but I don't want it to look like two separate signs. >> Oh, so cover the whole thing up and have these guys put a new one up and her put
a new one up. >> But you have to talk to them. >> I I think he'd be okay. He's okay if she just does if you just do your text on top. Then you've got one side of two businesses, which is what
>> I think it was like printed on something that's really sticky or something like that. So I I think and I think you could because the background would be white and I believe the sign background is white if you could put up there. I think it would look fairly seamless cuz it's not wood.
You're not trying to make it dimensional. >> So we could cover up with something similar. >> Yes. So decal like for lack of a better word. Right. So now on your application >> signed >> we do that in terms of artistic.
>> I want to help get this passed, but it's already 4. If I were to leave, we don't have a quorum, right? >> My my feelings could be hurt, but that's okay. >> All right. So clear. >> Could we move the motion? >> I don't want it. I don't want to. Yeah, we can move the motion, but I need to
see what it's going to be. I need I need a visual. Yeah, we have to close discussion. >> Yeah, >> that's going to replace. >> All right, I don't want to rush because somebody has to leave. D I really >> So, can we convene next Thursday? I mean, I I don't want to keep her
hanging, but I can't. >> Do you want to go for another meeting next Thursday? >> No, let's just get this settled. Well, I mean, you said you had to leave. >> I won't have a Give it another 10 minutes. I have a winter concert for one of my kids. Claire, me and Yeah, we don't need you.
We don't need you. So, you can go without doing. >> No, because I have a quorum if she leaves >> with she wants to sleep. >> Okay, I'll stay I'll stay to try to read. All right. So, let's don't waste the time. Let's get to it. >> All right. So, Don, what would what I'd
like you to do is to reddraw, if you will, >> what you want next sage and salt sign to wouldn't change anything. It would be this on the vinyl with the black lettering
>> her business and what she does in both. >> Same same exact thing just to fit over that salt and sage which would probably be about exactly the same dimensions cuz I went out there with a tape measure to try to make sure that it would fit underneath. So >> I have to think that it might even
Phil's wife who may have made that >> sign >> sign with I don't know the decals. or something like that. >> So I think it would be easy enough stickers. >> Yeah. And this is just because it got photocopied. It doesn't have a border.
>> Okay. Now look at that. So understand I have to file this in the clerk's office. So I need a picture. So what we're saying is salt and sage is going to be removed. Are you going to center this or you going to put it up where salt and sage were? >> I would I would propose to put it right where the salt and sage thing is because
it's nicely balanced. I think it looks good on the sign where it's located. Not bigger, not smaller enough that it covers what they had there. It's simply that. >> Okay. So, you'll have So, for everybody's information
>> cuz it's kind of see how it's in like a a little bit of a rectangle. >> Yes. >> I would go beyond that a little bit so that we wouldn't have that border. It would just be white. >> So, we'll have that be dropped down. Uh, what you can't see is very lightly
underneath that it says BB. >> I do see that and that's what I'm going to go to. So BB is staying. >> Yeah, that's good. That stands for the Birch House Botanicals. >> Correct. And I see that. >> I mean it could it could come down a I think the idea is more or less to cover up that salt and sage portion so that
the sign looks >> Okay. So your bridal muse would be at the top speaking then there'd be a space and then it would be botanical. Is that what we're looking? I'm just saying just leave the sign, the whole sign, and I'll just cover up the salt and sage. >> Okay. >> So, everything you see. >> And you're good with that?
>> I am. I'm fine with that. >> Does that fit your dream? >> No. I mean, I had got the whole historical piece and all that. So, >> yeah. You know, if I had had a choice and I was trying not to ruffle feathers, I would have said, "Hey, can I cover up your salt and sage sign with with my
bridal muse, but he's my landlord, too. So I was like, "Wow, you know, >> and he knows the story. I mean, he does." No. And he he was the one who suggested it to me. He said, "You know, Don, I I know you're saying you're going to put the sign on there, but maybe you should just think about covering over."
So I know he he's good with it. >> Okay. So, >> and it was by his suggestion. I would have liked to have suggested that truthfully, but I didn't want to push too hard. >> So, it's going to be this font. This is what's good. >> If if that's agreeable, yes. I think it's a very common, you know, classical.
>> Yeah. Font. Yeah. Font. Very, very classical. All right. So, can I have a motion? Oh, no. Let's have more discussion. Claire, do you want to add anything to this? No, I'm almost. You're good. Yeah. James, >> I'm I'm fine. >> No. The only thing I would
suggest is that you contact Phil and see if he can help you with with with this. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I I will because Phil called me before I left to say if you have any questions while you're in the meetings he couldn't intend to call me.
So he know he he knows what's going on. So I can easily call him and say hey this is what we're thinking of doing. >> When you say help with her meeting putting a sign up or with >> with concept okay I just want Okay. >> Okay. Okay. Laura, do you have any um
further suggestions, comments or additions? Oh, she said good. Oh, okay. Okay, great. Then I would like someone to make a motion that we issue a certificate of appropriateness to Darn Lacious for a
wood sign on the top of the existing sign with the font as presented in the application. Does that work? >> Wood. >> Not wood. >> It's not going to be wood. >> It's going to be like >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Decal.
>> A vinyl decal system similar to what's already adhered to the board >> on the but the Okay. Yeah. >> It will not be wood. >> No, but the the frame I guess right is wood. Right. >> Correct. Pressure >> on the wood. So the existing frame you
are going to add the bridal links right. Okay. I didn't write this down. So you still need a motion made. Yes. Okay, I'll make that motion your name. >> Maria Milikin to allow Dawn to put a
laminated black and white sign over the salt and sage sign to cover it up on the existing wooden sign at 422 Main Street immediately.
>> Can we please have a second? >> Second. James Dorian. >> Any further discussion on this certificate hearing? None. Can I please have a roll call vote? >> Blair Gby, yes. >> James Deoyan, yes.
>> Maria Milican, yes. Mary Jane Churchill, yes. >> Laura Shiffren, yes. Virtually. >> Okay. >> Does she have to say she's virtual? We We can't figure it out. >> She's funny. >> I don't know. Okay. Excellent. So, we're
going to issue a certificate of appropriateness to Don. Now, >> you can go anytime. >> Okay. I do a sandwich board issue. >> Yeah. Well, uh I I love I I obviously love it cuz I designed it. However, I
could just It could just be the writing. It doesn't have to have >> It's coming in. It's coming out. >> It's going to be out. It's It's a temporary. It's >> when you're there. It's when you're there.
>> Yeah. I kind of pull it in and out. >> Like I said, this is a little bit lighter in the background than the >> It's been a pleasure. We'll see you. Good luck. Take care. >> We'll see you again. >> Bye, everyone. >> Bye. >> Thank you, Maria. >> You're welcome. >> Um >> I don't know. Should we go for high
check? >> Can we go to her board thing? You don't have jurisdiction over them as long as they come and go. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Okay. So, we can say that this would be non- applicability, >> right? >> Oh, okay. Oh, very good. Nice. Thank you. All right. Can I have a motion that
we >> enlighten me a need to interrupt? >> There's other signs in the ground there. >> Oh, no. They got to come out and that's going to be addressed. >> I was going to Okay. >> Are we being recorded right now? >> Yes, we are. >> We'll talk about that. Yeah,
>> I have trouble with what's one. >> Okay, so this is what we're talking about doing cuz I thought like if you just like what is it? I forget what it's called. It's just a little thing and you stick it in the ground. >> A yard sign. >> I guess it's called yard sign. I thought yard signs yard signs are were okay to
use one or something like that. >> Not in historic district. You do it in the >> See, you can do whatever in the town. But once you enter the historic district, the rules start coming down. So, um, what we're doing, Don, is you're getting everything here. You're getting the full slate. We're giving you a a
hardship certificate on your door sign. >> Thank you so much. >> We're giving you an appropriateness certificate on your big sign. >> Yeah. >> And we're in the discussion of giving you a nonapplicability sign because, as Claire says, if it's in and out during
the day, we don't have jurisdiction over it. So, we can't give you an appropriateness or a hardship because we don't have jurisdiction over signs that are what would you call that? >> Temporary. >> Temporary. It's a temporary sign. >> Temporary signs. >> So, Claire, I can I please have a motion
that we issue a certificate of non-applicability to Dawn for her sandwich board. So, I felt so moved. >> James Dan second. >> Any further discussion on the sandwich board?
I have a roll call vote. Yes. >> James Dorian, yes. >> Laura Shiffren, yes. Virtually >> Churchill. Yes. Oh, great. Past. So, do you understand? You're getting three different certificates here. You're
going to be a champion. >> Thank you very much. >> Well, thank you very much for coming and being so cooperative. >> Yeah, I'm like I said, I I'm so flexible. I just, you know, like obviously want to >> such good luck. We wish you on your business.
>> I wish I was getting married. >> Well, we could arrange this. >> No, no, no, no. Please. No. >> Feel free to stop by, pop your head in if you want. >> I want to see that vintage get what I'm >> So, you do alterations of all kinds. >> Strictly bridal. >> Strictly bridle.
>> Very, very nice. Now, I don't want to keep everybody here for Darn. you can go, but I do want to get this Glen Shepard, Gary Shepard thing off the table. Um, so briefly,
>> and it wasn't so hot, was it? >> No, no, it wasn't hard. >> I thought it was just >> I'm all warm and fuzzy once. >> Wow. >> Pleasure to meet all of you. Thank you for your signs. I really appreciate appreciate
your cooperative. Say hi to Phil. He was fairly cooperative with me. >> He's a great guy. I'm lucky to have him for a landlord. >> All right. So, I got to have Can we have Glenn on here? >> Yeah, I thought something about Glenn
was signed for Glenn. >> Okay, this is going to be quick. So Glenn Shepard on behalf of Gary Shepard wants a certificate of non-applicability to repair the roof on the leatherboard shop >> because they have a um a leak. And I
talked to Glenn through email and he said that nothing is going to change at all. He's using the same exact material for both sides of the the repair. There will be no visual change whatsoever. It's strictly in kind. But I like to bring these things to the board because
I I think we should all be aware of everything. >> Oh, absolutely. It's just for a roof replacement. >> It hopefully it goes to the building inspector before it comes to the historical district. >> No, it comes to us first, then it goes to the building. >> So, we've come before the building
inspector. That's >> we are the way I want to know about that. >> I think the 60 days passed. H >> I think the 60 days pass >> on what was that
>> on that sign I got to get so >> All right that if the sign had been up without any objection too long for us to say something >> what's today 12 what >> in other words there's a period of time
with the where the commission can make >> yeah the commission has to act within so so many days >> right nothing happens, then the applicant can go ahead and do whatever he wants. >> So, in other words, that's where I went back to that. He's kind of grandfathered
in because it wasn't caught. >> Yeah. But we don't grandfather in the historic district. >> You just accept it. >> No, we change we try to go for a change like we still keep pinging on that particular sign for that reason like you are presently working with the bricks
trying to get that. >> Oh, yeah. He's an issue. >> The most Mhm. I need to have a motion to accept. >> So move >> repairing. That's the unique part. >> I was going to as soon as I said so
moved. >> Okay. James Dorian. >> So move. So my my motion that James Dryan is is to uh accept is issue a certificate of non-applicability to Glenn and Gary Shepard for the repair of their roof.
Can I please have a second? Second cler second >> and I would like discussion on it hearing no >> I would only shoot for one question. This wouldn't fall under a certificate of hardship because the roof isn't is leaking and it is
>> no because of possible damage to the building. >> Not in this case because he is not making any changes. He's using the same material, same color, same everything. He's just making a repair. So that's why I would fall under the parameters of nonpublic. >> He doesn't need our permission.
>> Ask too many questions. No, you'll learn it better because what what I saw you utilize for a certificate of hardship. I wouldn't I've seen it as a hardship. >> You know what I'm saying? >> This is not just another pretty face.
>> But you know what I'm saying? It's try to understand >> what the hardship represents to you. But you'll understand it more as we move forward and have applications. >> Yeah. >> It it it's about experience on the board. >> Yeah. And I I have to ask those
questions to get some of it. >> You'll get there. >> And it makes sense. >> Yep. Okay. So, can I please have a vote on the um motion to issue the certificate of non-applicability to Shepard for 54 Main Street? >> Cli. Yes.
>> James De Roan. Yes. Lori >> Laura Shiffren. Yes. Virtually >> Mary Jane virtually. Yes. So unanimous. Now I'm going to pass around these um forms so we can all sign them. Okay. >> All right.
Just like that. Oh my. That was stupid. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Okay. I'm going to shoot it down to Claire. Claire too. Now Lori, I'm going to leave. Where can I Are you in the United Are you in um Are you here?
>> Cuz I need your signature. >> I'm not here right this minute. But will you be around the next couple days? >> No. >> No, but I can I'll I'll write you an email and copy Sabrina that you may use my signature stamp.
>> Oh, okay. Well, that's great. Then I can get it stamped into the clerk's office. >> So, you just want signature and not print? No, just you just put your signature and how you voted. Thank you, Lori. That's great. That really is helpful.
I'm so happy. Now, I would like a motion because of the time to move the discussion of the fee violations to another meeting because I think
that's going to take some time. So for explanation, James, um, at this time the HDC does not have any fees for violating their rules and we would like to set these. We have the authority to set them and we would
like to do so. >> Wow. We do not. So in other words, you can't even use the verbiage. We find Phil Kameada for putting a sign up or we find the the brick store cuz you don't have any fine structure.
>> Correct. >> So, in other words, we say we're going to scold them. >> You send them a letter. Obviously, it's not working at the brick store. >> We just went over all of our um fine fees and increased them on conservation. >> You guys are on top of things. We're not.
>> We second since I've been on the board. So, and you have no fine structure. >> So, you're an expert at a gym, huh? >> Huh? >> You're an expert at setting fees then? >> Well, we we just redid all of them for um analyze all these different things
that people don't go in and take care of. They were like we thought minute where they would just say I'll pay the fine, >> you know. But when the word accrudes that is when we gain people's attention
if we do not have this done in x amount of days this financial occurred that's when attention is because we saw too many times people would just say I'll pay the $150 >> and move on.
>> Yep. I can see. When they hear it's going to >> multiply, >> that's when they go, "Oh, okay. We'll go to the meeting." >> Okay. I'm passing this around. This is for Dawn's three different signs and three different certificates.
>> One signature for all. >> Yes, please. >> But you included all three of them on the bottom left hand. >> Yes, I did. >> Got to get Lori sign. How do I do that, Kathy? Lori sends >> Lori will send um Sabrina an email
telling her it's okay. >> So I should see Sabrina to get to get the signatures. >> Okay. >> Copy you Mary Jane so you know what I have sent to her. >> I'll copy you so you know what I have to
>> Thank you. >> Yeah. That's the first time I've ever done it. >> I'll probably leave it in the clerk's office and Sabrina can >> do it. >> Yeah. Oh. Upstairs and it gets lost. >> Should I leave it? Okay. >> You know what I mean? So
>> So can I have Do you want to stay longer and do the feed? No. No. I really We can't really do the fees because I really think we should have Geraldine here and I think we should have a full I think we should have a full board. >> I thought Geraldine was coming back. She had >> No, she had to go get >> Okay. Okay. So we lost >> we lost everybody except Lori and Claire
and you. >> No, no, no. I'm glad to get a chance to meet um >> Yeah, >> we have the commission. So, can I have a motion to >> click? I'll make a motion. >> What am I saying? >> I'll join this meeting. >> No, no, not adjourn yet. I want to um
>> table this um >> fine structure >> fine fee structure for the HTC item number seven. >> You can do that editor and adjournment. >> Oh, you can? >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. How's that work? >> Just when you dissolve it, you can't go back.
>> Oh, okay. All right. See? >> Yeah. I thought she was >> Go ahead, Laura. >> I think it'll be cleaner if you just move it to another meeting. >> Okay. So, >> and not have it with the adjournment. You still have I know that you have old business there and and votes may be
taken, but nothing is listed, but I do have a comment on that once you get to it. >> Okay. So, can I please have a motion that we table the fee structure discussion to the Janu January 8th meeting?
>> I'll be so moved. Thank you, Claire. >> So, and that will be just discussed creating a fine structure. >> In other words, bad sign $10, etc., etc. >> Because you have zero nothing. Well, we
are used to and somehow it got lost. >> Even if you were to >> just second. >> Okay. James Don in second. >> Thank you. >> Lost. >> Any discussion further on this? We'll talk about the loss later.
>> Can I please have a vote? >> Glad. Yes. >> James Doyan, yes. >> Mary Jane Churchill, yes. guest virtually. >> Thank you. Okay. Now, um old business, did you want to mention something,
Laura? >> Yeah. um only because it was mentioned the other day about a mailing going out from the tax collector's office to be included for the board of health and we've been for a year anyway talking
about the postcard out to people and I mean if you can put something within the same I know it's a lesser amount of people but if you could put something in the same envelope you can speak to the treasurer about um I know that we don't have anything on that You mentioned it
at the last meeting as well in November. >> Oh, you're talking about our information about being in the historic district. >> Yes. >> Oh, so tell me again who's putting it out. The assessor. >> Yes. >> The treasurer
is putting it out >> and gave permission for the board of health to put a notice in that um tax mailing. So I I when they said that I thought I would mention that to you if you can you
be you know used in the same envelope kind of thing without a >> good idea and just be done with this for at least 2026. >> Mhm. >> Kathy, do you want to comment? >> You just have to be careful that it doesn't go over the postage amount because if the board of health is
putting something in and you put something in, it might go over. >> Oh, I'll talk to Carla. So, >> well, talk to the treasurer because she's the one that, you know, said, but you only have to have a thin piece of paper and it may not go over it, but I
would talk to her first. Just an idea. >> Oh, it's a great idea. It is a great idea. Love it. Okay. >> But you just have, you know, there's certain >> All right, I'll talk to Melissa about this. >> But if not, this tax mailing the next one. >> Oh, yeah. Because there's three of those. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's wonderful idea. Thank you,
Laura. I'm very excited about that. All right, CLA, you want to join the meeting? Is there a motion? You were going to make it, remember? >> Well, I did, but I could no m Okay. So,
we'd like a motion to adjourn. >> Claire told me so moved. Thank you, Claire. >> James Stroyan. Yes. >> Thank you, James. Any discussion about this adjournment meeting except for one thing? Our next meeting will be January
8th. Okay. Nothing >> for discussion. I'll just insert the time. >> 3:00. At this time, it's 3:00. We're going to discuss changing the time at that meeting. >> Correct. If you if you >> No, no, no, no, no. What time are you adjourning?
>> Oh, sorry. 427. >> Okay. >> 427 question. >> Okay. for >> hi virtually. >> Goodbye. >> And Mary Jane Churchville.
>> Hi. >> Meeting is a join. Thank you everybody. >> You're welcome. >> See you in January. Happy happy. >> Can you still enlight me just on that? Fine. What what that pertains to. >> Okay. You can stop.