Okay, I'll call the meeting to order at 3:01. Um, can I hear a roll call? Jerusale Churchville. We don't have a quorum. Uh, we do have a public hearing scheduled at 3:15, so we'll wait and see if anyone shows up. Otherwise, we'll
have to table this meeting and the hearing. So, we're in a waiting mode. Why? I guess we have to be on film, right? So, if we are presenting this this evening, they
usually question. Maybe I will this spring. Maybe it went to Dawn. Oh, maybe it did. How was your trip? Oh my god. I I can't even tell you. I like a
new person from the broken one I was when I left. Oh, it was amazing. I saw Susan. I did, too. She's in the building. Oh, yeah. because she was in the assessor's office. So she was I started from there. Yeah. Not not the assessor. She's in the
to I'm going to say Laura's here. I'm here. Yes. And we think Susan is She is in the building. She is. I just saw her across the hall. She was at the T. So when did you get home? This morning. Very late last night. Oh, last
night. Yeah. Well, you're tan. Well, I'm the yacht a lot. I Oh. So we open the pool and I'm out and you know I'm I'm rarely outside. Yeah. Let alone and I have a pool but I'm rarely outside. So I
always but there it was like I I didn't think about anything. I didn't think about anything. It was just a marvelous vacation cuz even when I go um to Vegas Yeah. which hasn't been as much as I want it
to be. I'm working, right? I'm working most of the time and I worked a little bit. I mean, I was always in contact with Nelson or Serena. That was almost daily. But that's nothing, you know, when you're like away instead of, you
know, like where they can really grab you. Probably should because we don't have a quorum unless we have Susan, right? No, you make the No, you made the quorum. But we're having a public hearing at 3:15. Okay. I don't see any um I The only
agenda I saw was the public hearing. Correct. That's it. Yeah. Yes. We're not having our meeting today. When are we having a meeting? Next Thursday. The regular one. Oh, okay. But I didn't post that one yet because I wanted to see what happened here. Oh,
okay. Um I know I made a copy of it. The What date is that? That's our regular meeting. Oh, the 12th. Oh, crap. Oh, no. Wait. What?
I have 3:00 in NA. Oh, whoops. I can change it. Oh, no. Um, no. I thought we were going to do this because I know, you know, I'm working on volunteers. I've been working on volunteers for
years and I I I understand we have two locations. Three. Okay. Yeah. I was going to bring that up the meeting. Yeah. I was going to bring it up at the meeting and I wanted to ask if we wanted do we want them to come in? Do we want to meet them or do we do that later? Miss Susan doesn't want the door.
She's avoiding us. She had a terrible fire next to her. Did you know that? I heard on 4 400 block on Main Street. We're right next to it. Was it right next door? I assume I thought it was right next door to Yeah. Patterson's garage. Patterson's garage
there. Terry Dugen. Okay. But I had the an idea of the area right next You know where Sue lives? Yeah. Directly next door. Were you say that correct? Yes. Didn't I guess so?
A while ago. I mean, I know there years ago, but um it would it did sell, right? Maybe twice since Susan Anderson with her. Um Oh, she did? Yeah. After she got married. I forget her
married name. Oh, isn't Oh, different. Yeah, it's uh Well, Barbara Barbara Regan's daughter. Oh, okay. Um, yeah. Oh, I just got the notice on that one because I have Sabrina notifying me
every time a volunteer form comes in. Oh, is it another one? No, it's probably um maybe she's going. Yeah, it must be because it's HDC. Yeah, I got his I have a copy of that. Maybe she
forgot. Maybe she might be right back. All right. participate. She'll be right in somebody else. Did you remember? No. She'll come. She's coming. She's going to come. I told her we had a quum. She was busy, but she's
good. So, I'm not sure about what we do. Okay. But what if if no one shows up to the meeting? for hearing. Well, you you open it and state what it's for and
um hope it's saying nobody came. So then what do you do after what's the procedure after that? Well, I I didn't post a meeting for us to take the vote cuz I thought there would be people coming and I sent it to you. Oh. No, we
got we took this came up the last meeting and so we had a public we're having a public hearing now for the certificate of appropriateness for the installation of windows on solid brick wall of historic building at 69
Main Street that's going as a public um that's the public hearing at 3:15 right notice we don't care so much about the um the roof because it's in kind. It doesn't matter. And the
doors, garage doors, I mean, I don't know what I would like to know what kind of doors they had on there. Yeah, but I probably nobody remembers. So, building in front of it, right? That was the antique. Exactly. So, nobody knows
except the owner what the doors were like. I'm just wondering if there were type of doors that closed or were they garage doors that went up and over or were they sliding doors? No. Okay. So, we would have to ask. Do you think
the doors were still there? Yes, I know they were cuz I saw them, but I just didn't take really look at them after the front came down. The doors were there. No, the front never came down. They um they put the front the building never No, that's
not the building that came down more. The building that came down was a little bit in front of it and that was raised, but this was a little garage behind it. Yeah. But they never did any they never took anything off it that I No, it's always been the same because I remember
this this is way back when the assessors went in to look at it. was the only time I met the people or went into that antique little shop. Um, I didn't see a garage door. Was it just a blank? But what was there? Well,
when you walked in, there was a wall and then there was a door into the back that was different. That now this is a different building. This is even a smaller one behind that one. Yeah, I know. That was supposed to be the
garage. The front of it where you used to go into the antique shop. Oh, you're saying is what was taken down. And I'm telling you that when I went in there Yeah. you there was a wall. Uhhuh. And then a door that went into the back
that was open like he had stuff back there. It was like piles of stuff. What? That's what we saw. So there was no garage door. Not that I remember. I remember like a
pass through door, but then it was nothing there. An entrance door. An entrance door. And that was it. Yeah. And the the thing that was um like maybe some wall space on the side was
space. Just wall space. It was not a door or it was kind of like you went around and maybe there were shelves and more storage in the back. That's what I remember. I suppose other things. Thanks for coming. Yep. I needed to do some other things before I got
here. Let me see. What time is it? Understanding. Yeah. Is it 3:15 yet? No. 12. So you're you're right on time. Oh, good. Yeah. You didn't miss anything yet. So your house was safe from the fire?
Yes. Yeah. If there had been if there had been the wind the other direction, it wouldn't have been Oh. Was it the house itself or the garage? Oh jeez. Oh jeez. Now were the new people doing the house? They were just moveing to move in. They've been
working on it. Oh yeah. They're doing some of the floors. Oh, they were doing the bedrooms. That's not historic, right? Oh, that's sad. It is historic. I believe so. It's 401. Do we have the addresses? No, I
don't. Um, I think that is though. Oh, wait a minute. I do. Pretty sure it is. What a shame. I saw I wrote by last night and I saw it was standing up just looking at it. Yeah. Oh, you know, they don't think
I hopefully they have insurance. H well if they have a mortgage they have insurance but depending on the work they did. Are we taping yet? Oh we didn't call to order and it's um Oh yeah.
Oh it is? No I called a meeting to order. Yeah I did that. Um I don't think I did a roll call. We added you. Oh, we're all should we tell them to start?
We're being recorded right now. I'm trying. Whoever's here, did you get that that we have already called to order and announced everybody that was here? Yes, we started the recording at 3:01.
Okay. Thank you so much. And then if there's anybody online because it's a public hearing and in one minute they have to announce. Actually, you have to call to order the public hearing, right? At 3:15, right? And then we all say who we are again,
right? So it's like they're meeting within a meeting. Yes. So what that's district three. So, here's a railroad track. So, I don't know what what numbers are one.
These are not these are mus numbers. They're not addresses. Yeah. So, I'm thinking that that's Christian's old place, you know. Oh, I don't think No, it looks like it should be cuz it looks like an inn, doesn't it? Yeah. I don't know where the forms would be.
I don't know why there's so many spaces. That would be if that if they're in you. That would be you. Yes. Correct. And then that be Russ and
then For is here. Oh, that's And she knows she's in the historic district. I I talked with her yesterday. I bet everybody would hear. Are we sure of a member? Claire's not here. She's in. No, I mean, but No, we we're not
we're not um short. We have a quum. No, I don't mean a quorum. I mean numbers of people on the committee. Yeah, we're short three. Okay. Cuz this person that at Forton's house, she would be very interested. Is her last name? There's three people that applied. Oh
no. All right. I better call I want to call to the public. meetings. I'm going to call the public hearing. Yep. Thank you. May the order right now at 3:15. May I please have a roll call? Your own is here. Lauren Shepard here. Seren
here. Mary Jane Churchill here. Anyone online? Is there anyone online? Is anyone reporting this other than TAN? Hearing nothing. Two or three. I can't see that. Lost my pen. somewhere
says three others online. Okay. One would be TCA. [Music] Um I don't know who the other one is. We asked them to identify themselves. Um who doesn't really matter. They're not
voting. They're just they No. When you have a public hearing, everybody signs in. So they get announced when they're online. Okay. So, can we please have the names of the people online? All right. Lisa
is Marcus N. Marcus N according to the screen n Lisa. Nancy is Lisa's brothers on Lisa are you on? She would answer. She knows about
the house. Mhm. She called. She called me. Oh, she did. All right. Um, what's the other one, Lori? I can't see. I can't tell. Well, it has um Well, you know what? We must be one. Tam is two. Okay. So, that's the third one.
Marcus and I don't know who Marcus is, but Okay, we're going to put you down as Marcus and in attendance. So, we do not have anyone other than Marcus. Do you have any questions, Marcus, about this application for
uh a certificate of appropriateness on the property at 69 Main Street? I guess not. Okay, hearing none. All right. Anybody have an extra pen? I do. Okay. action are we going to take because we can't talk about this because
I didn't post it. What's that? I only posted the public hearing, right? But you can when you post it, you there's a way that you can post if something comes in after you've posted it, we can include it. That was
not foreseen prior to the posting. Right. But we're in the public hearing now. We need to finish that. Any discussion with that and then close it? Any discussion on the public hearing? Well, yeah, once you opened before, but
it wasn't public hearing. We I mean, so this is inside my me. This is inside the meeting. This public hearing. So, is there a protocol for how long keeping open? Do I have to keep it open for 15 minutes? No. But what what was the
what's the intent at the end of the public? At the end of the public, we needed input to find out what the abuters feel and want about the Did you get anything in writing? Nothing. No, I sent it to everybody. I have a list of
all the Oh, the butters. Oh, okay. What are you speaking about? I don't know what you're talking about. Um 69 Main Street. Well, that's what the public hearing is about. You probably should have read that. Okay. hearing not. Yeah, the public hearing what's for. Why don't you read it? What
page is it on? It's not in that packet. Oh. Oh, no. I just gave you that packet so you could see district three. Oh, okay. That's all. That's got nothing to do with No, nothing at all. This is all district three. Okay. So, do I have anything here
for the meeting? I don't think so, but I do. And extras. Okay. Do you want to read the public notice? I'm going to leave. Yes. Yeah. In accordance with Mass General Law Chapter 3C, the Historic District's Commission
will hold an in-person public hearing on Thursday, June 5th, 2025 in room 2 at Towns and Town Hall at approximately 3:15 regarding an application from Gary Shepard for a certificate of appropriateness for the installation of
windows on the solid brick wall of historic building at 69 Main Street, Towns and Mass, parcel ID 39490. zero. This meeting will also be available via Zoom. Yep. Okay. We have no one in attendance
from the public hearing. We do have a Zoom member, Marcus N, but he has not announced himself nor had any questions of us and no one has written any comments from the notice of the public hearing. No, I have not received any and
nothing from the neighbors. Okay. So now what is next? I mean, I think we close public hearing. Yeah, but you can vote the appropriateness, but I didn't put it on I didn't put it on the agenda.
No, it's part of the public hearing. It's part of it. Oh, okay. You know, there's a um and that's too bad because we don't have a staff person, but there is a public hearing template. Oh. And then it
tells you what to do at each part of the public hearing. Jerry knows because we had a lot of ton where we can plan that. It's right online. Or if you can't find it, Beth Faxton can get it to you. Probably Sabrina can get it to you. It's a public hearing
template. Shows you instructions of how to do it where you ask if there's any first being usually it's the applicant who will make a presentation first. the applicant's not there, then it's um any
comments from the public. Well, you and then you ask if there's any written comments and then those are read into the record. And then after that, you then can make a motion to either approve or h however you want to whatever the outcome
is for that. But if you have no objections from the neighbors and they happen to be the right the main right focus if you will and um we did we did before and I can reiterate the discussion that I had about what I
remember about the back of the building. I don't know if you were here then but um my memory sometimes is short talking about just for reference. Okay. This is a building that is in front of well now it's trying behind the
gift shop at 69 Main Street. So this is I discovered this work was being done and told the building inspector to go down and look at it. Mhm. The building inspector brought back the application that was never filed.
And this was the situation when the builder inspector went to check it out. So the owner had already gone through with doing what he wanted to do without getting any permissions from from HTC. Um totally changing the
architectural look of this building. Um but according to um Lori but that's separate. So talking about the window application has three issues. One is the roof.
like for lake in kind. The second one is for this change architecturally and the third one is for a garage door. So the public hearing I had only for the windows because that grossly changed well changed the
architectural integrity of the building. And I think we should vote on things individually. one the roof, then the windows, and then the garage door. And but not the bricks. Well, the bricks. He has put those bricks back on. I think
the old ones. Oh, so they don't It doesn't look like that. No, it doesn't look like this anymore. So, he finished it without our um decisions. So, I think I would like to take this individually if you want to vote on it
now and take the roof first, which is incind for inind. And I'd like someone to make a motion to either accept or deny it for the roof. I'll make a motion that we approve the inind roof for 69 Main
Street on the uh application dated what? What's the date of this application? Um reference. It's not dated, but it came into we have it stamped
stamped and uh I'll take the stamp. Yeah, I want you to stand. April 15th, 2025. Excuse me. So, that's my motion on the roof. Do I
have a second? Okay. Any discussion? In kind for in Can I have a vote? Yes. Sh. Yes. Susan, yes. Mayor Jan Churchley, yes. Okay. So, we're going to approve and issue a certificate of appropriateness for the replacement of
the roof. Okay. Now, may I have a motion on the garage windows to either accept or deny? I'll make a motion that we approve the windows installed per the per
the applications permit, whatever. Um, at 69 Main Street. Mhm. Do I have a second? I second. Okay. Can we have discussion? Okay. So, there where are there where or
were not windows there? No windows. There were not windows there. Okay. And I can't say that cuz I don't remember cuz it was when I saw it when I saw it through the whatever talk about the door door after
I only saw wall and lots of stuff stacked. Right. So, I can't tell you from the inside. No. And you saw it outside. So, did you see windows in the building? No. What I'm saying is when I remember I
said that there was an entry door and like a wall and then lots of stuff was piled up in the back. Like, so if there were windows there, I didn't see it. And then I never saw the back of it, but you know. Yeah. You just you walk into the
front where they had the what you call the gift shop. Okay. Exactly. And then there was just tons of stuff, a little more organized in the front. Mhm. And then there was that entry door to the back that was just all full of stuff. So
you So I can't say that I saw windows and then I never saw it from the outside. We do. We have any pictures of that building? What What is that building? This is a small building. That was a garage building behind Ben Mor. Yes. Okay. I don't know. Well, behind
the front part of the gift shop. Well, that makes it kind of difficult. Can I Well, I think one of the things we do know is Can he replace the bricks or what? He did replace the bricks around the window. The windows are the issue. Okay. The windows are what are um
architecturally not a correct. Okay. Let me see. Let's see. Let me see if there's anything on a past field card that the assessors might have as far as photos. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, because I seriously I was in there, but I don't
remember. I don't remember a baby gift shop. I remember little gift shop out front. Yeah, the gift shop was out front. Oh, sure. What was that? Oh, god. They just took it down. They just took it down this year. Oh, yes. The little yellow building. You know what? Originally, it
was a grocery store, I think, or a little a little package store. Package store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then it became a gift shop. Um, I never was in it. So, I don't Yeah. So, I don't remember what it looked like, but that that's gone now. And this became exposed
when that went. So, now we have the garage that we can see from all sides yesterday. Um, the thing that concerns me is the what is the use of this building now? What's it going to be used for? I have no idea. I'm going to put this down as
questions cuz we can we are actually It's good that we have questions cuz we have no information. So, what is it being used for? And the building inspector doesn't either. They don't have any application for it. He might now, but he didn't share that with me.
How recently were you in touch with them? Um well recently enough maybe yeah about probably when in a April April 25th so that was what 3 months ago. Oh wait it's June
a month ago month ago. What is being Oh I see where you're going with that Terry. You you want to know about the purpose for reaper. Yeah, that's very good because this is a a dramatic drastic
100% change in the architectural. Well, the windows coming in and the door. Apparently, there was a side door there. The side door. There is a side door and another window there, but you really can't see that for from the street. No, you can't. So, I didn't think that that was appropriate for us
to include that work. Yeah. It's not where the door there or where's the door where the garage door is. Is that a garage or what is it? We don't know what that's going to be. I think it's going to be a garage because he asked for garage doors.
Oh, I think but I'm not going to make that assumption because who knows what. So, is this still going to be part of the the fire department things in there? I don't know. We don't know. I don't
know. That's a good question. That is a good question. I mean, were they going to make like a museum area? You mean other than the fire station itself? So, will this be an additional Yeah. museum, which would be
appropriate, but that facade is Mhm. Exactly. Of the fire station museum, right? That's a good question, Susan. That does would it have changed anything if he had used FL?
Correct. I not a clue. It's the thing. If it was It doesn't look like I think it looks like vinyl, but I don't know. I mean, it could be wood. Who knows? That's why I wish somebody was here to at
least give us a clue as to what we don't have a clue. I mean, we can always vote to not um issue it. How how recent was this taken? Oh, this was just taken in April. Okay. So, it still looks like this. No, he has since completed it. He
since put the old bricks back. I assume they're old bricks, but he's he's in here, too. Yes. Okay. But that does change the look of the building and change the purpose of that. That's what I want to know. What what's
the purpose of this building? Okay. So, we have questions of the owner. Absolutely. I don't know that that's would make a difference in our vote the purpose of it. But it would be appropriate to know. I think it's appropriate to know because it's so changed. Is this change
necessary for the purpose of the building? like with the with the church remember the door that whole business and we agreed at that time that we were going to do appropriateness because of the repurposing of other building. So I do think that knowing what it's going to
be used for is a legitimate question. Yes. And and will influence our decision. I really do believe that. Well, typically with a museum there's a museum shop and there's more information about it, you know, right? That's that's if he's going to do that that. Yeah. But
remember this is not on the fire station. This is personal to the house 69. Right. So not that he couldn't do that but just would Do we have a clue? No, because the photo, which is odd in
itself, um, of the side of the side we're concerned with, right, is not on. And I looked at and she pulled two other previous field cards and it's like the same picture. But what's really interesting is that how were the awnings
allowed? There were awnings on that building. When was that picture taken? Was it in the district at that time? Always. Yeah, I think I think that one was in. So that what do you And I didn't
remember this either until I saw the picture. And of course, this is the part that's not there anymore. Oh, no. I think all this is gone, guys. And I think that's the garage. I think that's great. Oh, okay. Is this the same thing,
Lauren? No, that's the main house. That's amazing. I thought it was too. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. They don't. She looked for two other ones and they don't have the other side of this table. This is something that we're going to have to in the future people hearing is
we're going to have to start documenting houses. Oh, my whole point of agree. Yeah. See, it hasn't been done. I mean, then we take a picture of the front, but it really doesn't. There are pictures that were taken a
long time ago of all the of many of the houses in the historic district. Vicki said they're in personal They're probably personal property. Really? Yeah. Personal property. No, I would I got some pictures of the house of your
house. My house. Yeah. The in person there as the owner. Sure. That would been passed down right for to the next owner. But do you agree that this is the building right here? Yeah, cuz it is setting. It's It is set.
So, I know that I went to the whole store area and apparently this was the store area. Oh, so you were here? Yeah, I was in here, but it had a door, entry door into the back storage. Was there
another Was there like a a little um breezeway or something between it or storage for storage? No, it was strictly there was no there was no door but at like an entry way. I think there was no door on it. Oh, I'm just I'm just
remembering walking through and looking at this space I mean I didn't take measurements. Well, I know but in general saying that would you say it was just a door you walked through or was it like a normal door that you walked through or do you think it No, it was an entry just an entry. is an entry door
into a space that was open. Yeah. And just had stuff piled all over. Well, see, this is why I want to know what the use of this building is going to be. Okay. He's putting a garage door on. That's okay. But I think that's a
legitimate question. He is putting a garage door on it. That's absolutely true. But is it going to be for a garage? I don't know. Or a museum store. Maybe we get this within. Well, that would make sense. And so, I think we have to ask them some questions. Yeah.
Do we have any other questions we want to ask him before we about the windows? We're doing windows only right now. Just windows. These windows right here. Right. Yeah. Well, are they Well, there you want to know if
they're wood. They're six or six. Um, does he have any photos of showing the property previous to that? Did did they windows in there? I don't I mean I I don't even remember the building. I remember this was blank
wall blank wall until May until April 25th. So we know um does owner have any photos? So the windows will be very dark inside. I get that. But it was Yeah,
right. So, okay. So, what we're going to do, um, can I have a motion to to table this until we get the questions answered? I move to table it until we have Do we have more information? Yeah. Okay. Now,
the third one is the garage doors. You took a motion if you want to vote. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Can I please have a vote? A motion. I vote to hold. Vote to hold. So you're voting for questions against Jane Church. That
was the motion. Yeah. Well, are you going your vote? Yes. Yes. Mary Jane Church. Yes. I think that's the smart way to go. I know. I was standing there all down. So the third one, the third issue is to
um he wants to install two garage doors. and he wants us to choose which one. Oh, but I don't think that's I think Well, I can understand that. We just don't know the size of them and where they're
going. What's the purpose of it? Yeah. Is it going to be storage? Is it going to be a real garage? Is it going to be Well, I don't know that makes it any difference. I think it's visual. Does it kind of go with the um the year and the date and the Well,
that's that's that's the question. Well, our garage doors, they would have just been open. Well, see, that's that's what I had said earlier. It had either opened or was on a rail, one or the other. And when we did our house, mine in the district and we did the garage,
which had just been like an extension um of the house, I I came before the historic district commission. And when Bob Johnson drew up the the um the look of it, the architectural right view, he he this was
so here here's the garage and he had bumped it out cuz we needed to extend it because it was only for model T cars, correct? So it it made it changed the look of the front of the house. So right then and there, I changed it that we bump out the back. Okay. And we keep it all straight like
that. Oh. Oh, that was good. So I I changed it right away. I understood that which meant a lot more work but it does look better. Does look better. And then we rode around and looked to see garage doors everywhere. Ken and I everywhere. And what we have now when you go by is appropriate. What do you have now? What
do you have? Um they're they're you know a button. They go up and they go up and they look like they're panels and there's windows. Okay. Oh, so that's just like a a minor like that. So, so why do you have to I'm not
understanding the garage door. Why would we as a historic society be approving or not approving the garage doors because of the architecture? The Yeah. Yeah. issue. I mean, we could have done just yours didn't change in the front. Yours
changed in the back. There were no garage doors there before. Can't call that. That thing right there was like they sit. You couldn't get modern doors. They're not They're not visual. But they're panels. Well, they're panels. Yeah, most of them are panels, too. And there's uh I don't know, four lights across, right? Yeah, there's two of
them. I think one of the things that we have to one of the problems we're having right now is that we have no idea what it was like originally because we were never involved at the original when we should have been the first line of asking for a
permit because that's the rule. Yeah, you're in the historic district. We're dealing with a property Shepherd. We're dealing with an owner who is more than knowledgeable about the historic district. And our hands are really
tight, I think, because we don't know what it was like before. It was hidden. He took it down, but nobody realized he thought he was going to come before us about anything. So, we don't know what we were changing.
The other thing that concerns me not singling this deal out but yeah if we don't get a handle on things shortly people are just going to start doing whatever they want historic district I agree with you%
Jerry I think that um giving a pass to people who don't come appropriately is not helping in the historic district at all. Well, it's not fair to other people. And it's not fair to other people. It's not honorable. It's not honorable at all. It's not
legal. And it's not legal. I I really think the commissioner should have ce I asked him to cease and assist this work. And I don't know if he asked the owner to or not, but the work was not ceased. So, we're dealing with two issues here. We have no idea what and the only reason
we're dealing with this issue is because the owner chose to ask for forgiveness, not permission. And I really think that that is a a rogue way to do business in a town and the owner was knowledgeable. More than knowledgeable come before us.
Yeah. For a year, right? If it was somebody new who didn't know what was going on, all right, you might want to have a pass. But we can't even go to the site and see what he's changing because he's already done it. Yeah. It's all finished. Yeah.
So, I don't know if you want to drag it out and ask more questions or if you just want to deny the certificate based on all those. All right. I don't know which time we want. But but I but I do think has the work been completed that's going to be done?
I believe it has. Do you want to do you want to hang with me while while I ask them give them the information? Do you mind? No, I know. No, I'm just trying to figure out the
facts. Okay. So, there there was a door where you see the two windows. There was a door on the right and a window. and he replaced the door with a window. Is that the application? Yeah, Mr. Shepherd's on
the phone. All right. So, I mean, we need this information. Okay. So, I tried to get you the information. So, I'm trying Any other questions? So, what's the building being used for? That was our question. What's the building going to be used for?
A garage. Just a garage. Do we know what kind of doors were under here? Was there was there a gra Okay. Yes. He said they were plywood. Plywood. Rotted. Rotted. What? Rotted plywood. Oh, sorry. Pl particle board worse.
Yeah. Well, I'm not concerned about the the I'm concerned about the the architectural look. Okay. So, what was there before? He doesn't have pictures, but what was there before was a window and a door? Let me ask him something. Yeah. Can he reverse that side of the
building because there's a window. on the other side. Did he just reverse the door? No, that side of the he said east side. So that side of the building had a window and a door which I never saw because when I went in there it was all blocked off. So what was on the other side of the building directly? I think
what you see in the um picture there right here. You can't see it. Yeah. Yeah. We're not talking about the store. The store's down. No, the store is down. But and this is what the store was. But we don't see that little tiny thing. See
that? That's right. So I can't see what that is. Were there windows on the other wall or were there two doors of this building in the Gary in the garage? Were there two built two windows on the left
side? Those the western side? Yes. And so we put the door and the window there. Oh, he did not repair those. On the left hand side, there's a door and a window there. On the left hand side. Yeah. If you look
at the building on the left hand side, there's a door and a window. You look at it directly. So, what's he saying? He didn't do anything. So, the the door and the window that's on the left hand side of that garage, you only like repaired. You didn't you didn't make it different than it was.
Right. So, but we're talking about the garage now. That's left. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. Yes. I remember that door. I don't in the in the old building. Well, we can't see it cuz there's no
picture, but in the old building that came down, there is no door on the side. There is two windows with awnings on them, which I don't know how that would have happened, but
anyway. Um, okay. So, any other questions? So, what what are the windows made out of? Are they vinyl or they like what they were made out of? Are what are these are made? Okay, Gary, on the
windows that you have on the right hand side, the east side, are those vinyl or are they wood? Can we put him on speaker? Yeah. Yeah. Do you do you mind if I put you on speaker?
Okay. Okay. So, um, what he just said was he doesn't really remember, but that if it's on the outside it would be vinyl and on the inside it's wood. That's for sure. Huh? I
told my guys that make it look like the windows in the house. Oh, okay. Well, that doesn't feel like I have no idea what this is. No, except for those are older looking.
That's truly divided. 6 or 9. Oh, there's six over six. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So, any other questions? Any other question on He doesn't have any photos. He doesn't know what the
windows are water or vial. Um, will the fire be additional? Oh, what was that question? What is an oak? Is it? No. At this time, he's telling us it's a garage. Yeah, it's a garage. Yeah. So,
whether it's part of the museum or not is not. Okay. Okay. So, we're going with garage. Will it be roll up roll up um doors on the garage? Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to do the up and down kind of garage door with a garage opener with the garage door
opener kind of thing? Um, okay. Um, so what what can you take down for the garage doors? Do not It was particle board. No, no, no, no. Were there two or one? Oh, was there I think there was two. Were there two or one in Did those go up and down or was it like
a barn thing? goes on pretty much everything that was there except we use wood this time. Oh, well, it's hard for us to know that we um Well, it laid a dollar short. How can we know that? So, they were originally
two doors. Is that what he said? So, what's he putting in now? Two. One and two. Here's the pictures. You guys will have to figure out. He did do a um It looks like one. Is it one? Will it be one door, Gary? It's two.
Exactly what was there? Exactly what was there is what he's going to replace. Well, which one? He gave us four choices, but he gave you the choices. Um, okay. Let me see. I don't think we should be picking the garage door for him. Okay, then we don't talk about it. I mean, this looks like a
He should be telling us what he's going to do. Well, because he said he's replacing them like they were, but they have flash, but you know, it's two cars. They're not panels. Well, these look like two garage doors. Well, no, we had particle boards for doors. So, there
were no windows. I don't care about the material on the side. So, the particle board would have been in the recess part panel of the door. There were windows in the middle. There were windows in the doors. Okay. Right in the middle of the
doors. Okay. Yeah. In the middle of the I like that. But that's that's what he had. I like that. The little windows in the middle. I I don't think we should be picking this. Okay, then he should be as telling us what he's going to do. We shouldn't be picking for him. He should be telling us
I'm going to do this. We can suggest that when I talk to I shouldn't be picking. I do the picking and somebody takes a swing at me because if I do the option want you to have the option, right? Okay,
good. All right. So, you're okay with whatever is decided here for that space? Well, I didn't read that. Okay. Well, I mean, whatever's here, we're not gonna be making up something that isn't here. I'll take a picture of my garage doors. Okay. Restore things and improve things.
They can't see that. Gary. Okay. Gary, my our garage doors up at 403. Um, when Ken and I were doing those, we went rode around to see what the windows looked like that people because we want definitely want windows and you do, too.
Um, I'll take a picture of that and show the show the committee and show you. So, what I found too, J, the more the older the door, the more more likely it was to be almost transfer higher up rather than
at the but I gave you the option. If you take a dollar, just take the door and I'll put it in. Okay. All right. All right. Sounds good. Thank you for your time. Byebye. That's what I have. Transit windows, which aren't they don't look appropriate in an older house, though.
Not not like transit windows look appropriate. Transit windows are like these right here. That's what those are. Are they I can't Are they Yeah, those are in them. Those are transom. Well, see, mine are mine like that, but mine are square. It's
square. Yeah, I'll I'll take a picture of mine and I'll send it to you. All right. cuz we rode around to see what other people had and what looked appropriate for a house of in the 1800s. Okay. So, he's willing to put in whatever for the garage for a twocar
garage and it's a garage, not anything else. What were the other questions? Um, well, that's and the brick. No, no, no, no. We're doing this separately. So, we did the roof. Mhm. We were working on the garage window, but we skipped down
to the garage door. Right. So, do you want to make a motion? I'll make a motion that we approve the approp the appropriateness of the windows as shown on this photo. You're coming only about the side. Yeah.
Are we talking because that's the only question, right? No, it looked like at the front the front doors, too. Yeah, but that's garage door. She's got that as a separate promotion. Okay. Okay. So, so did he put the old brick in there or did he put new brick or Well, this is the garage, isn't it? This is
the garage. He replaced it with the brick that he had. This got finished off with the brick that he had. And he said this was a door he made into a window. And this was the window. And it's the same size on the windows.
We should have walked the property. We should have had an application before you started the work. Okay. Well, that didn't happen. We can't go back. You know what? I understand that. But can't go back. Okay. But you know what? Um you and I had talked earlier but not today but I
mean last meeting about people who you know make mistakes and then we would do a policy and maybe it's time to um do that to do that. I did go upstairs and talk to Beth
and there's only one up there. The only policy I had was storm water was storm water. there was a a policy for fines for that, but she said there wasn't anything else. But I thought there was. I really did. However, I did also go into mass general law and we
theor you can establish a policy. It doesn't have to be a bylaw. It can be a policy. So, I think I think we need to do that. I mean there's we just did that on the public record
request in the select what the policy for fines not fines but charges for to do because I just maybe I think that's what we're if you're truly going to keep it historic. Yes, I agree. I think you got to move forward
and create some time. But I agree. And and actually the ones from Mass um that were applied were much more than I thought they would be. They really were. They were they were thousands. They were and it week one was a thousand, week two
was 2,000 and then day by day just so I think you want to establish but you want to establish a true historic district. I mean for years. And this is historic district. It is. This is historic district. And these bricks weren't here
before. No, those were the bricks. Oh, they reused them. They they reused them. And they were just like this before. But what he telling us, but we can't prove that there was a door and a window there before. So we're taking his word for it. Yeah. So what was a door and what was a
window? And on the other side there's a door and a window. That's what I was trying to ask if he So we haven't we don't have any pictures of how things look now. We need to only he added we don't have a picture of before and we don't have pictures. Yeah,
but we need to do a picture of what like what things look like now. No, we're going to either start or get rid of your district really of them. Yeah, I agree. I get rid of us. Well, yeah, we get rid of us. I mean to vote on it, but I
really think that you you do need to establish something like that so people a policy, you know, Jerry, I I understand what you're saying, but you're talking about a person who's lived in town his whole life and is completely renovating the historic
district. He knows better than that. That was a ask for forgiveness, not a permission move. And I think that's disrespectful to the board. He's not the only one. I'm not saying that he is. I'm saying in this instant and I don't think we should give him a pass because he's
not the only one and because who he is, it's wrong for the other people in the district who are coming to us. I'm not upset with what he's done. It's got nothing to do with it, Laura. This has to do with our decision about keeping the historic district architecturally
correct. Correct. Okay. So, what he is doing though is he's using the bricks. He installed a door versus a window and it's the same size as what was there. Now, you don't know it because we don't have pictures, so you can't say that it was or it
wasn't. I called him to find out what was there. I didn't know about the door and the window on the other side. Okay, I'm just looking at this, but he's saying that this was a door like the other side. Okay, we have a motion on the table. We have a motion on the table
to approve the certificate of appropriateness for the windows as submitted on the application from the windows. This is just window. So, can I have a second? Second it. Okay. Can I have a vote? I la.
Jerry, it's up to you. I'm voting no. a bunch of um he's he's used the same there. I mean, you're talking a door versus a window and there's six over six. I get it. And
they do match the greenhouse. I got that. But um I would vote yes. Big over. That's fine. All right. Good. Yep. But I want I'm I'm so I I didn't know that we had anything to say about what kind of shingles they
used. It's just he said in kind, but I I I I don't know that that's part of our jurisdiction. No, if he was going to change them, the name would slate up whatever we Oh, they would change. He put it in fun and kind.
Yes. And kind. Yeah. All right. So, next I need a motion on the garage door. We don't know if they're I I'll show you. You can drive by my house or I'll take a picture and send it to you. So, you don't want to vote on it now? Well, you should see what they look like. They're panels with um with lights. Okay. So,
we'll Which one of these does it look like? No. None of them. Cuz I have I think I've got the same ones you do with the transit. It would be more like a transit. Whereas this is Yeah, I No, they're not. They're not ours. No, no,
no. They're too modern. Yeah, they're smaller lights. Well, you know, would be well the next meeting if that's what is it's going to take. Okay. So, a motion to table the
with him already stating that whatever today is what day we can continue we can continue this till tomorrow. We can continue the same. We don't have to post another week. We continue. I believe we can continue this till tomorrow.
You can do the public hearing. You can continue the public hearing. Yes. But I can't do a meeting tomorrow morning for 15 minutes. I'm not going to be here. I have an appointment enacted.
Am I taking you? No. We don't have to be inside. We can meet right outside the door. Yeah. No, I'm not available tomorrow. Can we go do it now? Oh, we got a meeting. We got fin. No. Oh, we're Sorry, I didn't know about that. Yeah.
Um, are we going to Can I have a motion to make a decision on this, please? So, we can we wrap it up. He said he's going to do what we say. So, if we give him a picture of yours, he's going to do yours. He said that. He verbally said that. Um, I'll make a
motion that we approve the garage door that Sue recommends to the applicant. I think it's I think he might be already doing the panel on the doors. Good. So, your name is going down on this.
That's fine. All right. I'll take a picture when I get home. And I'm good with making a motion. Who made the motion? I'll second it. Okay. Any discussion on Sue Gerkin's decision on the doors,
but I'll I'll text you the picture when I get home. Okay. Okay. But you really don't like it. Then you can I think I built the same door. Yeah, probably. All right. Can I have a vote? Lorship and I Yes. Very truthfully. Yes.
Um so we'll table this and and well, we can do it next Thursday. We're having a meeting. Okay. Yeah, we'll do it next Thursday. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, I thought we were making the motion to approve whatever you recommended. That's that was in the picture. Okay. Well,
that's okay. Oh, you want it to approve? Okay. I I stated it to approve it. Yeah. Because he's not going to do something that you're not going to say that's okay. He already said that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And these are standard doors. And you probably are too. They were
special. We have to close the public hearing and I have two. I have a motion. I'll make a motion to close the public hearing in 69 Main Street Towns and at 4:03 p.m.
We use We did probably second. Okay. I no discussion. I will ask for a vote. I nominate I. So we have just closed the public meeting.
Now I have a hearing. So now I would need a motion to close the I move that we adjourn the meeting. I want to do one thing. Okay. I I take that back. I just want to make sure that everybody understands that we are going to be
writing a policy and enforcing the policy. I don't know who the enforcing person will be. It will be the building commission. Should be the building commissioner. But we do need to get that policy written and we haven't had one and it's about time to get one. Okay. Can I have a second close the
meeting? Second or second be. Okay. Discussion vote is yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. That's the next one.