Good evening everybody. My name is Andrew Shepard, chair of the planning board. I call this meeting to order at 6:32 p.m. I'd like to have a roll call of all the board members present. Please say your name for the record. >> Robert Thuran present. >> Hartley Fleshaw present. Brett King
present >> and Andrew Shepard present. Um would you please join me in the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under indivisible
with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. I would like to thank all of our veterans, those currently serving here and abroad, their families, and those who contribute their time to public service. I think we owe them my gratitude. This meeting is being recorded. It will be uploaded to the town of towns and YouTube channel. And I
do not believe I have I do have an addition. It will be to revote the ANR on 198 North End Road. Um it appears at our last meeting we made the motion but we did not vote formally. So
and then we'll move to we'll move from 1.4 right to 1.5. So, we'll we'll do the revote right after we look at the minutes. Does anybody have any comments? 1.5 for the meeting minutes from November 17th.
>> I looked at them. I was happy with them. >> Okay. >> Okay. I'd like to entertain a motion to approve the meeting minutes from November 17th. >> I make a motion we approve the minutes of um 11:20. Is that
>> 11:17? 117. >> I second the motion. >> Okay. I'd like to go around the table for those who >> Robert the Ily blush I >> Brett King I >> and Andrew Shepard I. Uh so next I would
like to let me make sure I find the spot so we can get the wording right. >> 2.1. >> Yeah. 2.1. So, I'd like to entertain a motion to approve the endorsement of an ANR plan
for 198 North End Road Towns and Mass. Robert, you you moved it the last time. >> Okay. >> If you wish to do it again, >> I will. >> Okay. >> I so move that we approve the site plan
>> ANR >> ANR for North Edinburgh. >> Okay, I second the motion. Second. Let go around the table again. >> Robert Thean I >> Arley Plushaw I. >> Brett King I. >> Major Shepard I. All right,
that takes care of those two. And then perfect timing at 6:35 we have 48 West Elm Street site plan review application for accessory dwelling unit detached. We do have a draft decision in the
portal right next to you. >> So staff review comments. Uh the assessor says looks good. The conservation agent says there are not any perceivable wetlands related to 48 West Elm Street. Therefore, the
conservation commission has no issue. The building department says the building department is familiar with this application and has no issue. The water department superintendent says living space requires a new water service and separate water meter. The board of health agent says, "I have the
septic plan but still need to review it and put it in front of the town board of health for their review approval. If approved, the primary dwelling in the ADU would not be able to have more than four bedrooms as identified by uh
reference law combined. Let me know if you have any questions about this." And then we have a draft decision here as well. Let's see. Got the highlighted in blue. Is that
uh >> those are the things I went over with the applicant. >> Okay. >> The statement of case was probably something I needed to updo, you know, kind of uh touch up a little bit um because that was a decision for another
project, but I think it's pretty close. Um, but anyway, you can look over the architectural design as well as the plans. >> Would you guys like to look at them? Does anyone >> Mr. Chairman, I just have a question
here. Um I uh the zoning bylaw that for the ATU I thought said um up to 900 square ft. Is that correct?
>> Believe so. >> Uh yeah 50% >> right. Somewhere in the documents, somebody said something about 700 square ft, but I wanted to be clear that as far as I was concerned, it was
900 square ft maximum. Um, and so that's why I asked why is this a request for a special permit? the the way the ADU bylaw was written I
believe by us >> was that anything that is within the existing structure or um in accessory buildings we don't need to see it all >> right so if it's outside of the scope of anything
already built and we wanted to look at it to make sure that I think the intent was parking and you know the it was reasonably accessible for emergencies or anything like that. >> Okay. >> I think that's that's broadly what we do
>> because I thought the whole purpose was to eliminate all these ADU applications. >> Sure. We could probably revisit that if that's what we wish. I mean, I think we were kind of intending to be I've always felt as the board, you know, we want to
be nimble and as this new law develops, if we find that we don't need to be doing this anymore, we could probably try to change the bylaw. But as of right now, this is the process. >> Well, as far as I see with this applicant, everything complies already.
>> Sure. As all have that largely have come before us that they've never more been stamped. >> Okay. >> So, any any questions or comments from the board or applicants? Would you do you have any questions or comments? >> Not really.
>> Fair enough. Okay. I I don't I don't have any issue. So So Beth, do you believe or mention that you think there needs to be some refining on the decision? >> Uh maybe just I would recommend adding a condition that you know they go ahead
and get the water meter, you know, installed. Um but I think all the other conditions are pretty much standard, right? Well, just just in addressing that that would be normal for any permit
application anyway. So, I think henceforward if the other requirements are met by the bylaw as we wrote it, no application would be needed for a special permit for that.
>> No, we can't we can't do that at a public meeting. >> I'm sorry. That's that can't no you already have a bylaw and a site plan approval process in the code so you can't um wave all future applications.
>> So not yet we can talk about that later I suppose. >> Say what >> we can talk about changing the bylaw. >> Okay. >> In a substantive way later. >> Thank you. Um, so I think there is a condition on here that uh says the applicant shall contact the water department to obtain a new water utility
meter and any requirements of that department. >> I think we're all >> that seems reasonable. Um >> that's good. >> Everything else? >> So yeah, read the motions then. So if there's if there's no other questions from the board then I will
make uh a motion to I Andrew Shepard make a motion to approve the condition the site plan approval application for a detached accessory dwelling unit at 48 West Elm Street West Towns and Mass based on the findings of fact and should
be built according to the plans uh and report submitted. >> I second that motion. >> Excellent. So you being >> Robert the excellent um like to go around the table for our votes. We'll start with you Robert
>> Robert the yesly. Yes. Brett King. Yes. >> Andrew Shepard. Yes. >> I will mark that up and get that out to you later. Okay. >> Okay. >> You're good to go as far as the building department. >> All right. Thank you guys. >> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Have a good evening. Okay. Excellent. Thank you, Beth. So, that and then 650. Joe Bole, are you here for the 650 Glenn Eaton
or are you Glenn Eaton tonight? >> Uh, I I am here uh for that. Yes. Um, is uh Glenn was going to attend in person. Is he not there yet? >> Oh, not yet. We We Oh, I see. If I read
quick enough, I would have noted Beth's notes that say in person. >> So, I think we'll be waiting then for the next eight minutes. >> Sorry about that. Uh, is this I hope did you have something you can jump on your agenda? Is something else on the agenda?
>> Uh, we'll come up with something. So this bet that this if you can we can sign it. It's still blue. >> Yeah, I'll pick it up. I mean, I'll just work on it now while we're while you guys are doing your >> Do you want us to sign it even with the blue? >> No, not yet. I'll print out another one for you.
>> I got you. Welcome. >> Hi, Carol. >> Hi. >> Let the record show. Carol, help us. >> Finished my other meeting. It was short and sweet. >> Fantastic. Okay, so let's see. Uh, so we're going to postpone two or we're going to wait
for 2.2. Um, 2.3. We have the Hi, Lori. >> I missed you guys so much. >> I thought I'd bring you a treat >> with you for a bit.
>> It's freezing up. >> What about freezing outside, too? >> Yes, it is. Okay. So, we got to wait for 2.3. >> Maybe uh we take a moment to go over our correspondents. Heartley find them here. And I, you know, no
different than times past. Just feel free to hit the general high points of First of all, um before I get into the various uh announcements, let me um read that this uh statement uh from the Massachusetts Joint Transportation
Committee, Wednesday, December 10th, 2025 at 2:30 p.m. Uh there will be a uh discussion of uh FFY 2025 corridor profile route 119 in Townsen at 3:05
p.m. Uh so the overview of the FFY 2025 UPWP project in Townsen and uh that will uh if I can uh Okay, so that's that's that. Um
this is from the town of Lunenburgg planning board notice of decision 225 Sunny Hill Road. Storm water permit with conditions. Application purpose construction of a single family home driveway domestic sewer and water
services drainage improvements and associated grading. This is from the town of Groten Planning Board public hearing notice. Site plan review auto sales 14 Town Line Road. The
Rotten Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Thursday, December 11th, 2025 at 7 p.m. in the Rotten Town Hall call. Town of Shirley Planning Board decision of the planning board for the special permit and site plan review applications
at Great Road Shirley, Mass 1464, parcel 72A1.4 um for the construction of a single family house. This parcel is located on Great Road, parcel ID 72A1.4 in the North Shirley Village Business
District. Copy of this application can be obtained from the town clerk planning board decision. Vice Chair Oelfki, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, made the motion to approve
the special permit and site plan for the construction of a single family home on map 72, parcel A1.4 Parker at Great Road, Jeffrey G. Dusty, 206R, Great Road, Shirley Mass, with the following
conditions and conditions follow. This is from the town of Lunenberg, Office of the Planning Board. There will be a public hearing on December 15, 2025, 60:05 p.m. at 17 Main Street, Lunenburgg, Massachusetts, Zero
Reservoir Road. Planning Board storm water permit. An application for a storm water permit pursuant to section 204 uh-1 of the code of the town of Lunberg by Justin St. Clair for the proposed residential development consisting of
four single family homes. Now, Town of Pearl, Board of Appeals, notice of decision uh a zoning board of appeals variance has been denied. A variance to construct a 10TX 15T
150 square ft mudroom and a 32 footx 30t 960 ft garage. Uh that has been denied. Count of Peril notice of decision notice is hereby given that a zoning board of appeals order on an administrative
appeal has been issued. William Brenfield on behalf of Brian Spencer, owner of property at Fort Hyest Drive, as shown on tax mat 17, parcel 95-0 and by a deed recorded at the Middle Sex
South Registry of Deeds, book 3 to 73, excuse me, book 73639, page 553. And that is all I have as far as uh these communications. Excellent. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Hartley. So, we've got two minutes. I believe Glenn has joined us. Excellent. I think we'll wait two minutes until we hit our designated time. We've announced we may have a flood of individuals who
want to come join us in that journey. >> That's very kind of you. Um, what else do we have going on? Um, administrator. We got the administrative report. Maybe when Beth gets back
there, Beth, do you know if there is updates from the planning board representative on the community preservation? >> I defer to you. We got Yeah, we got a report >> tonight from
about moving forward. >> I think things are moving well. You're getting people appointed, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is there one new from your board? >> Lance McN. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. That's right. You already
appointed. >> They haven't met yet. There's still vacancies. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any um or updates regarding town properties committee, MRPC, and MJTC? >> Are you on town properties?
>> I believe so, but I haven't met yet, >> but they haven't nobody's contacted me yet. >> Not yet. >> Okay. And uh MJTC, my update is on Wednesday there's a meeting and they're going to present the route 1919
corridor. analysis. So, um, if anybody wants to log in, it's online. It's going to be around 2:30, 3:00 for MJTC. >> When's that? >> Uh, Wednesday the >> 10th. >> And then, Arley, have you been able to
make any of the were they the MRPC meetings? >> I I wasn't able to make one last week. >> Okay. Because I had to work. >> Sure. Sure. So, uh, my apologies, but I I Beth and I have talked about this. Um,
I'm going to, uh, she has sent me a list of those upcoming meetings, and I'm going to, uh, uh, crossch checkck them with, uh, my supervisors at TCAM, and if there are meetings coming up, I can't attend, I'll let Beth know in advance.
Fair enough. >> It's um, B Good on Select Board is the backup. Okay. >> For you. So if you can't make a meeting, then the select board member that was appointed, which is
>> can make it for the town. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> I'd like to ask u on the earlier topic about the um preservation committee. I'm on the um parks and recreation
and pox and recreation had nominated me to be on the committee. >> Okay. >> And I didn't I wasn't aware of any meeting. >> They uh they haven't met yet because they don't have a full meeting. >> Oh, they haven't? >> No.
>> Oh, okay. >> The report came on conservation restriction. So, which has to do with soccer fields or something like that and that's what I was mixing that up. >> Oh, okay. >> But they have not met yet. >> Okay. >> And if you have been nominated by parks
and recreation, just um when you're in the building or send Sabrina a note, send Sabrina a note and she'll tell you what to do. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. So, we've we've hit our Unfortunately, there's not been a rush of individuals to attend. Uh but Glenn,
thank you for joining us in person and Joe, thank you for uh being here tonight as well. Um would you mind introducing yourself and Dr. giving us the update? >> I'm happy. Do you want me to sit here because I like chairs between me and >> you can whatever >> whatever is going to unlock your
presentation skills that bad. >> So actually I think can you give me a time limit? 10 minutes. >> 35 >> 45. >> Oh really? >> No. Let me try to sing this tune in 15 minutes. >> Yeah. >> All right. Let me let me first hand out
um packets. Now, we're going to hit some highlights in the document on the top and then if you have questions about the remaining document, I'll go over the second document. There you go. And I'll get to here. If you have questions about the second
document, the second document is >> you got you got both. >> Watch out. Just give the whole just just go ahead. >> Um the first do is really a draft internal report or it'll turn into final
final report eventually. >> What's that? >> Well, I sent you both just in case you wanted to. So if you're going to share anything, I would do this document. Okay. Sure. >> I have a habit of working backwards, so I'm going to go to like page 31 or something. I'll let I'll let you know.
Okay. Beth. Awesome. Um, so I want to credit and thank Joe for being here also. Uh, Joe's been very helpful uh to me on this report as I'm trying to uh trying to help out get this finished and get over the goal line. Uh,
and our goal is to get all of our reports done by December 30th in this funding world in this particular uh category called district local technical assistance projects. So, I want to thank Joe publicly because he's been a someone I can lean on to get this done. Um, so
we have, if you want to go to the top document and if you want to go to get page, it's up somewhere page five. This is a screenshot of the scope of services for
this contract. So basically it says marketing strategy and I'm trying to write a report within that con and marketing strategy can be JP Morgan hires somebody for a million bucks. You hired us for a free grant and we're trying to give you a million bucks of quality but that's my whole budget for
the agency. So I I can't I can't give you a million bucks in services. But we're trying to give you something meaningful that's very very important to us and it should be for you. Um and I'm sure it is. So that's the scope. Would you want to refer back to it at all during the meeting? Go ahead. In this document, what I'd like to do is I tend
to work backwards in these things. And if you go to page 31, so we did a communitywide or townway survey in the May June window. Now, we don't like survey responses when the
numbers are on the low side. The reality is that national surveys, national polls are based on response rates of 2 to 4,000 people. Only 56 people responded to this. Now, I felt as though we have enough responses to
find some common themes, and that's good. In other words, more than three people responded, but you know, I feel a lot better with 500 or 560, but it is what it is. Um it's fascinating to read to read the results and uh I'll I'll
highlight quickly on page 31 under the rural and natural character. What we've done here is we've kind of categorized under certain themes rural natural character some of the words that were used by their survey respondents you know such as on page 31 rural natural character uh the fourth bullet down
nature nature oriented fifth one preserve land five outdoor activities. So these are just not quantified and these aren't weighted in any response. These are just some of the words that people used when they talked about when they responded to the 16 questions in
this survey. Um on page 32 under community and friendliness um the inhabitants they they like their town you know and they really everybody's kind of prideful of where they where they live and work or where they work especially right you have I find and
I'll go off on a slight tangent uh you have a lot of uh historic under historic identity but you have a very rich historical and cultural community that I live in Templeton I was born and raised there and we have a lot of that too. But you have really great assets
that you preserve and you have preserved and you should you should use those to promote. So I you know I'm I'm very a little jealous of that because in my hometown we have a a very active historic society now uh and they've saved the local Grange Hall and we have
a nice historic uh building and visitor center and so on. But um you know our towns do things a little differently than my town does than yours. But I want to say you really kind of knock it out of the park with preserving historic character and historic assets and that's really great
really great to see. Um summary of the themes is on page 33 rural country nature call it scenic update friendly and and welcoming historical identity. Uh and then there's critical feedback which I'm not going to go into
the details. People don't give a survey without criticizing something. take it for what it's worth. Take the good comments for what they're worth. Take a big picture and then move on. You know, I I don't put a lot of weight. There's a in in people when they're being uh what
I call brave behind keyboard or BBK. Um everybody can do that. And it's like, okay, acknowledge it. And to me, it's more why did they say something that they said on the positive side or the adverse side? and they're really trying to dig in a little bit more to try to
pull out what they really need. To me, that's where a survey like this has to mean. >> Come on in. >> Sorry for the interruption. >> That's dedicated. Yeah. Did you climb up all the stairs? No. I hope you took the elevator. Just so you know, I'm on page
33 of the doc and I'm just summarizing survey results right now. So, continuing to work backwards a little bit. We're going to go to page 30 and I want to credit the team for coming
up with some buzz words and the team I had a meeting with planning development staff a couple weeks ago. We talked about this project among others and one of our planners throughout the word connected the community is connected by the swanook and the three major I'm going to call them villages or areas of
population concentration towns and harbor west towns and towns sorry are connected by the river. So this word connected was a was a buzzword in our office about a couple weeks ago and obviously it's towns and the authentic I believe Joe was Joe's word when we were
talking about your West Townsen uh antique cluster your antique center connected authentic towns and because what you're selling when you're selling antiques as one example they're authentic they're real and and so so Joe came up with this tagline I think it was uh um last Monday or Tuesday so I'm
leading off with that one there are other taglines or other ideas, but the point is you need to have a brand or a message if you're going to do some marketing. If you're going to go down that road, keep it simple. You know, KISS is really the the the theme here. In the middle of that page under promotional channels, uh I wrote down
social media influence. I highlighted that in red for a reason I'm going to discuss about let me just call it the Grten example, the town of Graten example in a few minutes. And then I have under measures of success which is related to social media influence number of views on Facebook from creation
publication promotional video created by the social influencer discussed under item number one digital preference above. And let me go off on that tangent very quickly. So for about 2500 bucks there's the destination graten committee. They're appointed by the
boardman in the town of Graten. Uh Greg Sheldon and Jeff Gordon. um I think they're like co-leads or co-chairs on this committee. I know you know these people through your job. They're really really dynamic people and they have a bunch of other good people. They
basically >> I think they got a budget of like 10 grand from the town meeting through the board select in the last town meeting. I'm not sure of the dates right now, but and they took 2500 bucks and they interviewed and I happened to be in a meeting with them about a year 15 months
ago when they interviewed this uh this individual who whose career is about publicizing, marketing, making videos and promotions. She used to work for either ABC or CBS. Um and she said in the interview, "I was fired and I created my career over here to help
people out for 2500 bucks." She did an incredible video. Beth, when I have it, when I can figure out where it is in my email, I'll forward it to you if you want to share because all of a sudden it made Graten look like just as exciting to visit as downtown Boston and walking the Freedom Trail. It was just amazing
for for a couple grand what what this video did. They had over within the first 30 or 60 days, they had 50 to 60,000 views on Facebook. Within 3 to six months, they had over half a million views on Facebook. My point is if you want a marketing strategy, you're going
to market. We all know how to market things, whether it's, you know, digital, whether it's brochures, whether it's cross marketing. Another another point that Joe brought up to me about cross marketing your farm stands with your with your antique stores with, you know, cultural assets, historic side buildings, and other places in the
community, retail shops. Um, I'm sorry, I forgot the name of your restaurant in your downtown. When I come in over the bridge on the right, >> House. >> Yes. Yes. Thank you. Uh, see, I don't know your sound as well as you do, do not. So, I'm going to need your help tonight. Um, but you know, this video
was really very good and for short money. I mean, you can spend 10, 20 grand on videos for companies. And this this young lady knocked it out of the park. I thought she did a good job and I will provide you with her contact information. I think that's one strategy to get a lot of exposure for peanuts.
Now, 2500 is not peanuts. It's a lot of money, but at the same time, in the grand scheme of things, I will I will share with you at MRPC, we've spent two or three grand about 6 months ago to have uh 10 educational tutorial marketing bluntly
videos for MRPC. What do we do? I didn't know what an RPA was until I took the interview to be honest with you. Back in 99, I was on the board of stuckman at Templeton. I knew what they were, but I didn't really know what they really did every day. You know, what do they really deliver? took the interview, got the job, blah blah blah. The rest is
history. But the reality is I my family knows the least about what I do. It's like my siblings and my parents never knew what I did. But the point is, if my own family doesn't know what I do, how do you know what I do or the agency does and so on? Can't wait to see you in a meeting. If you ever want to talk to me
between meetings, I'm happy to to communicate with you, sir. By the way, um happy to help if I can. Um so we spent about two or three grand. We're going to have uh about 10 videos come out of it. We did about 10
interviews with 10 of the 18 staff or 16 staff on the time who were we did this last fall. They're going to come out this winter. Um and it's basically 60 to three minute videos. Each of us being interviewed with a lot of B-roll of background of a community with voice
over and stuff like that. Who did we hire? Templeton Local Cable Access Television today. I hired the local cable guy and they're they're doing the videos of course for us for two grand for 10 videos at 200 bucks a video in my final report or our final report with
Joe and me. It'll it'll say lose your use not lose use your assets that you have. I find cable commissions cable committ cable staff to be wonder a wonderful asset in the community. I don't know yours but everywhere I go they're they're fantastic. >> Um I'm I'm a member.
>> I work for >> Oh, I'm preaching to the choir sir. Yes. Okay. So, was I close? Hopefully. >> Well, we're trying to do that. >> Okay. >> Can't get off the ground, but we're trying to do it. >> You you you'll absolutely >> Yeah, you'll get there. I can put turn if you need a colleague over here. Steve
Castle is our cable, >> right? >> Director need to convince for talking, >> right? I I I can direct you to our executive director. >> Okay. >> Here in Townsen. Great. >> And if we can get something going, that would be great. >> I'll bring Steve out. We'll have lunch at Townsen House and let's just let's just rock and roll. I mean, this isn't this the taxpayer is paying me to do
this stuff, so I'm happy to do it. Okay. All right. On page 28, it gets a little bit more into the nitty-gritty. Now, I think the first one, this report is draft. Pardon me. It's really important that
these are initiatives under in a draft format. Excuse me. and what you don't like you can change. The difficulty about being a public sector planning consultant business is that when we write a report locally,
it's typically referred to as the the the Smith report or the MRPC report. Make this your own. Rip our name out of this in the future. You're going to get all this stuff in Word, Excel, PowerPoint, PDFs, and Word documents. If you don't like stuff in here, you can
feel free to change it after we publish it. But what you do and don't like before, tell us now or we'll make changes to the report now. So we we have an open open process to do that. But on the top of page 30, um you know, today it's really I think we all know that if
you're not online somewhere or multiple places, then you're really not exposing yourself to a large a large audience. >> Is that example under towns and tourism website? Excuse me. That's the groten example they call it where they had x
number of viewers for a 30 or 60 second video for 2500 bucks. And um just so you know on this particular sorry I got to get you the name. Beth I'll email you the concept. I wish I remember her name. Let's just call her Jane for now. Um I emailed her three or four months ago
because I see the value for MRPC doing a video of this caliber. Also $2,500 bucks. We have about a $3 million budget realistically. That's great promotion. It's good education. It's great marketing. So, I'm going to use this person as well. Um, social media.
I'll share with what I've learned, which is scary in the social media world, but I'll just tell you MRPC story. I'm not going to use Tik Tok at MRPC. All right? Tik Tok is for kids dancing. I get that. That's fine. But in some businesses, Tik Tok can be very, very powerful. Uh, my
wife about a year ago started a dog treatment business. So, and and she's in a store now. So, in her in her case, we talked and I I said, "I don't think Tik Tok's for you, but Facebook and Instagram, oh yeah, we got to use it." So, every entity, municipal corporation, the private business, everybody's going
to be different in what social media outlets that they want to use. And these are obviously not the only three, but you have to be online. You're really going to have online and and pushes the events. I talk a little bit about them on you know uh there are some obviously
some some ideas there. This is meant to start creation of ideas and add more to these ideas or subtract them. Again, this is your plan. Okay. Uh but but Joe had a very good point this morning when he's helping me prepare for tonight's meeting about
the events are very important in any community. You want to draw people out. 10 years ago, the town of Winchenden started in the town hall and they have kind of a great hall structure like you do. It's very similar in in kind of volume and square
footage. And they started um like a vendors sale in November, December, maybe it was October. They did a fall festival. They had 10 or 20 vendors the first time. Now they have 200 to 250 vendors. It's held in October. They have 6,000 people attend from all over town
and all over the region. It's incredible how in 10 years how much the that festival has grown. Businesses will constantly say if a community can bring people to downtown then I can take advantage of that and I can sell the food or the widget or the whatever that
they're retailing or the antiques and so on so forth. So there's a there's a connection between events. So if someone's running a lot of events here, that's a good thing. Let them continue to do that and and foster that. Your rep department or private nonprofit, it doesn't matter. But tie the events
together with promotional materials that you can have at those events that you can cross market your assets in the community. And I mean all your assets. I remember picnicking at Willlet Brook State Forest by 40 years ago. Um it was my wife's name is Tori. It was BT before
Tori. So it was an old girlfriend. We had a picnic and oh my god I fell in love with Willard Brook and we walked and it's one of the most pristine places in in the region that I've ever seen in my life. And at that time I was into hiking and a lot of stuff like that. So I was very outdoorsy.
>> So Glenn, I don't I don't want to cut you up. We're getting close to the 15 minutes. >> Shoot. Okay, I'll finish up. I'll finish up. And that's why I need a time. >> But I've hit the highlights. I really really have. And I think it's important for you to know. I will close by saying
the structure of this report. If you want to go to the table of contents is on pages three and four. On page two, we hit you between the eyes with what we think is a decent tagline. This is not a tag. This is just a tagline. This is
this isn't your mission statement, but this is one. Have multiple taglines connected authentic talent. You can love it or hate it or edit it. That's up to you. But in closing, I do want to say that on the top of page two, many of and I'll I'll quote this out loud. many of the themes gathered from the town w
survey can be summed up in a response number 39 to question 12 and the question was which assets do you think are underpromoted or overlooked in towns the respondent said I feel like town events local farm stands and small businesses in our area don't get a lot of attention and when we move there it
was easier to find information about businesses and surrounding communities uh than it was to find in our our town our new town a website would have been a great idea when I was looking for places to to check it out that really sums up a lot of themes and the respondents in here. And I'm out of time. So if you
have questions, I'd love to feel them. Please read this stuff. Get back to us as soon as you can. Individually, collectively, we'll take any comment and then move forward. And I'm done. Hopefully I did it within 16 minutes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any questions or comments from the
board? >> Yeah, you wouldn't have to have a business card, would you? >> No, not on me, but I will. that has my >> contact where to find I'd like to link you up with TCAM which is our local uh cable
nonprofit community access television corporation for whom I work >> and connect you with our executive director and if we can uh put something together that would be a great thing. If I know Beth by 9:00 a.m. this tomorrow morning, you're gonna have my contact and you just shoot me you want to.
>> Thank you, Beth. >> She already wrote it down. She knows where >> Oh, excellent. Any any other comments or questions from the board members? Um, and I'm I'm not sure exactly where we are with this and what we're supposed to
be doing here, but um, in terms of community resources, um, you know, I I'm just talking about things that maybe
we can utilize as resources here and one is the town common itself. Um and some of the other parks in town um so one of the things that I can say
is having grown up here myself um there are a lot of there were a lot of activities that brought the citizens of Townsen together besides the band concert. Okay.
And those included in this particular building itself when I was a youngster, the public use the assembly hall and kids would put plays on the 4 would use
it for various functions. Um, so the bulk of the time that hall's empty and it's not utilized and I think that could be promoted and incorporated in this plan. Um, the other resource that is
vanished and I'm very active on pox and wreck with this is the lost of natural swimming areas in this town. When I grew up here, there were seven
areas we could swim in town. And now there are only two un virtually unknown areas. And if you go back in time when we did have those resources,
um, families got together. There were picnic tables, there were picnics. um the Boy Scouts would have a a function at a swimming pool and those resources
are lost. And the only two resources that we could have had were state parks here um which have not been maintained and uh you cannot even swim there now.
So I think in terms of of what is an attractive and makes the town more desirable would be to recover those lost amenities
and u and to promote them locally um in terms of the citizens of the town in terms of economic development. all those become forums that have other
activities like cookie sales or whatever they might be. Um so right now as I see the only functional thing in town that's being
used is the common and that's pretty well utilized I would say 80% of the summer season. Um um >> Robert, I just want to make sure we try to be concise somewhat. >> Yeah. I'm just trying I'm not sure
exactly what our role here is, but >> I think for >> sure >> last night it was the tree lighting. Yesterday was the hall where we had the historic society had its membership meeting and election.
And Saturday we had the holiday fair at the senior center and library. And I went towards the end. It was packed. >> The parking lot was packed and it was all along up and down the school there. And so >> it was packed in the morning >> too.
>> Yeah. And I got it at the end because I thought it was going to be later than that, but I did get to buy some stuff. So yeah, >> it was very heartwarming to see all of the stuff that was being done. And you know, I guess uh just a plug for the
event like and a plug for the individual that does it. Any event that I've ever participated in or seen that Karen Clement touches has like thousands of people that just show up whether it's the Earth Day that used to be at the common but I think too big. I think that was Earth Day.
>> Oh, and they put it at the high school. Maybe thinking of a different >> It's at the high school now. It used to >> and but it's bigger at the high school. touch a truck that they do at the library. I mean, it's always >> Oh, the trucker. Yeah. Yeah. They She really and her
family does a great job putting things together. So, I guess I the way I understand where we're at now is that this is somewhat of a draft report and if we have feedback to share with you, Glenn before it becomes the final report and from then it becomes a report that
hopefully doesn't sit on a desk or in a shelf and that there's you know what do you have? Is there action items in the report about like putting together a committee? >> No, not yet. I I wanted to do this first and then come up with some >> we lean toward making some action
suggestions in the last few pages that I started with 31 30 29 28 about you know higher social >> but it's not there's not a list of action items yet which would be like the last page four appendices if you have appendices like the survey and the survey results. So right now it's look it over. I'm going to keep writing on
this, getting Joe's input on this. Um, and then get us input. You know, this will be final on December 30th, so we'll get it to you. You know, PDFs and like I said, Word documents and PowerPoints and stuff, so you'll have those then, but you'll be able to edit it beyond this. So, there might be this is the final
report, but you can edit the documents later. So, and I would keep it a living, breathing document. Sure. >> I think somebody just said that recently. >> Sure. Sure. >> Yeah. I would imagine maybe this will be the nature, you know, similar to destination graten that it would be the, you know, recommendation to form a
committee of some for similar to that and potentially if the town has a healthier year at some point have funding. >> Sure. >> Geared towards it >> and funding could be from from the private sector too. Sure. That could be matched. Sorry, >> I was going to say, is that the name of the video? Destination Grunt.
>> It's not the name of the video. I don't recall. I'm going to have to find the actual video. >> I'd like to see that. you send it. >> I'll send it to Beth and she can distribute the business that they did a few months or a year ago >> and thank Beth as well. >> All right. Any other questions or
comments from the board or for Vicki or Lori or all that are present or I guess Mr. >> Chairman? Sure. Yes. >> Uh if I if I uh could uh just add a little bit. Um something that I heard I I've heard from you before and I heard
uh very clearly tonight that I think needs to be incorporated in here is that this marketing strategy, marketing document should be directed as much to the residents of Townsend as to visitors to Townsend. One of the things we found
in the in that uh uh Glenn reports on on uh coming out of the surveys is that there's a whole lot of people reporting that they feel really connected to these different things in towns and to these assets. And another thing we that came out of that is there is another group of
people who said there's nothing to do here. There's nothing in in town who aren't connected to those assets apparently don't know about them. So, we feel like there's a couple of points there. One, you do have the assets that people can connect to, and two, you have
the potential for more growth there for more people in the town to be more connected to different things in town. Point number two, I wanted to bring up re-emphasize, uh, Glenn's talking about cross marketing. Uh, what that means is
flyers about your farm stands at the antique stores. flyers about your antique stores at the farm stands. Flyers about your antique stores and your farm stands at these community events and if possible actual physical presence. Uh a little pop-up farm stand
from different from different places. uh a maybe may may maybe a little pop-up retail operation or just some sort of display from different antique stores or from if there's a collection u if there's a an
organization of the local antiques uh broker working together so that and and meanwhile flyers at the antique stores about the about the public events uh that you know that's that's such an important thing. Um, oh, and by the way, all of these things also making
references to uh the uh natural and open space resources especially uh the uh along the Squanakook. Uh so that's point number two. That's what we're really looking at if for that cross marketing and that is also very closely related to
the idea that we're marketing to people in Townsend. Third thing I wanted to bring up was this idea of the video. I just wanted to um run this idea by you. See uh see what you thought of it. This idea authentic.
I think that's really a strength that uh that uh Townsen can play to. So, you know, it can feel it's very authentic with its history with with uh the the antiques in particular. I was thinking about
starting the video project. Just get B-roll of interviews with antique store owners talking about the word authentic, the concept of authentic. What's authentic? Show me something authentic. What makes this authentic? What's good about authentic? And just get
some uh and just get some footage and some quotes and things like that. I bet that stuff would be amazing as your voice over for your 30 little little quotes in your 30 secondond video being
played over clips of anything open space historic buildings anything clips I the the antique store owners talking about authentic I think that's really where we start >> I think I think that's a great idea Joe Hartley I'm happy to hear your comment I
don't know if this will be the brainstorming of video plot But >> well, I was saying I was just saying as he as he was talking, someone in Rotten should excuse me, uh, Townsen, uh, should pretend we're doing
a segment for Channel 5's Chronicle program and think to yourselves, what would Chronicle do if Chronicle came up to Townsen? And I'm thinking that's exactly what you know, a little bit of the farm stands, a little bit of the antique stores, the two state parks,
which is a huge asset for the town, and other events going on in town. Pretend we're doing this for Chronicle and, you know, for a half hour or however long we want it. That immediately is my conception of the video. >> That's very similar to the garage.
I think there's no shortage of great resources in town and minds to to make something happen and drive more uh production and business here. Very excited to see, you know, the final product and then hopefully to turn it over to whichever group will lead the charge.
>> Champions is really one of the last things I wanted to say having I think you mentioned a lady was running events or someone or you didn't mention a name. I don't know the person, but you need a champion to do those. Uh, and I I I just want to close by saying that, you know, I'm I'm a history geek and I have to
credit John Barrett for recruiting me to do colonial reacting. And you know, he musters and I muster with him on the hot end sometimes when I can get here. You know, towns is my home for reenactment because of John Barrett and there's so we're geeks. You know, we can do education anytime about the clothes with
food. Oh my god, we can't shut up like now. But my point is that there's so much other to do, but there are so many other physical places we can do these as well. So thank you for your time. >> Sure. >> One one last thing. Let go. >> Uh I have worked for many years now with
a very successful uh documentary filmmaker who's done a number of uh documentaries on his his hometown uh historical documentaries about his family. And I'm sure he would love to come in on this as a consultant. So when
we get to that stage, I'll be more than happy to uh help out with that. That's a great question. >> I I just um in terms of more direct interest regarding the planning board itself,
um I I'm very concerned um about preserving whatever commercial and business zones that we have in this town um which can be used in
in developing economic development here and because there hasn't been a lot of commercial or business activity, the the community at large thinks that we don't want them or we don't need
them. So as a as a member of the planning board as and also as a citizen of town, I think we have to be very protective of not losing or changing the use
in the business and commercial zones that we currently have. And that's my statement. >> Thank you, Robert. All right, I think we're all set. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. And we'll move to to item 2.3 which is discussion and
consideration of the towns and zoning bylaw amendment to section 145-29 outline outlying commercial district subsection C OCD uses um uses allow uses allowed by special
permit from the board of appeals subsection 5 hotel motel proposed by the zoning board of appeals appeals and we're fortunate to have chair uh Vicki Janiki Janiki with us. Vicki, thanks for joining.
>> Thanks for having me. Um so the background to this particular change that we're proposing is um we've been working a case with um couple of young men who have the cabins up on 13 on
Brookline Street. It was grandfathered for a number of things. It's been there forever. Um, now it's providing sort of longer term housing, but it doesn't fit the OCD zone. Um, it's a gray area and
as as you probably know the EDA, we don't deal with gray. It has to be black or white. Uh, so we had a nice long discussion la uh last week. Um and what we believe is the right thing to do here is to update the OCD
to um allow this particular situation or any if there was another situation in town as well um where the owners could do the long-term
rental, you know, within the ZBA, not be in violation, provide affordable housing, but also prevent prevent us from these little cottage type things showing up all over town um in in the commercial
district. Um so we went through and uh came up with the proposal sort of targeting those particular things. So one is sort of adding to the definition of hotel motel for the purposes of this zoning bylaw meaning that you can have
long-term rentals with a kitchen. Um what we said no more than one kitchen and it needs to be under a certain amount of square footage which I believe is 700 square ft. Um we also put a date as well which follows a pattern we have in our zoning.
If you look at the paragraph above it, it talks about hotel motel before like January 1st 1970 which was referring to this particular property. So we continue with the pattern that we had before. Um so our recommendation is to bring this
to a town meeting and uh bring it um for a vote. Uh hopefully it is accepted and we can move on and and do the right thing about this property. >> Sure. Thank you, Vicki. Um does any planning board member have any questions
or comments or thoughts they'd like to share or ask? I guess I that makes perfect sense. I I have no issue with it. I don't see a reason to have issue with it. Um
>> didn't they say they were if I may? >> Yeah, please. >> Um because I I was at the hearing. >> Um didn't they say they were going to put the date of January 1st, 2026? So, anything before January 1st, 2026?
>> Yes. So this would come into play next year, but it wouldn't this zoning would not be allowed for a newer like development or another piece of land kind of thing. It's not going to be president setting. They're doing this so that the buildings that are already
there probably have been there since before 1970. Actually, they were there when I was got here at 76. and um it would give them them the zoning the ability to continue the use that it's
been permitted before. Whereas right now with the new owners and and what was done, although there's no other structures, um they just want to do it long term, which honestly they probably always were longterm. Some of them were transient,
but others weren't. um you know was Harrison's motor court back then and and just note that this is under the special permit section. So it's not by weight. It's they would need to go through the special permit process to assess traffic
and you know septic and water and and traffic and all that. Yes, >> I'm just trying to get a clear picture of what we're trying to do here. Um, so I understand buildings prior to those
would have been considered pre-existing nonconforming. Correct. >> Yes. But they did change as through the years. In other words, I think originally they probably were cottages, didn't have kitchens,
>> right? And then as time went on and they renovated them and had people living there longer, there were kitchens. >> So it's it's not quite the same, >> right? >> I in listening to all the board members
and of course the new owners. >> Um there's people living there. >> We're short of housing. Nobody's looking to throw all these people out of house. >> Nobody's questioned that. I just was um trying to get make the public more aware
of the purpose of what was being proposed here. >> Thank you. >> So, this is only going to be allowed in that area. >> Yes. >> So, it's kind of like spot zone. >> It it's um anything that would qualify on. It's not it's not the particular lot
and it's um needs to be a hotel motel as an allowed use. So, um there's possible other I don't know of others in the town at this point that would fall under that. It gives us um a little more
flexibility. >> I think we'd like to have a void spot zoning. >> Well, right. >> It's already existing. It's already special. It's um not to set precedent for other areas.
It's to try to keep it the way it is. legally so that their permits can continue or special permits can >> I think that's what we have to consider though um one
just limiting it to this or there are other other possible things that could happen in town. Um so I I think it would be the better approach would be to
make some provision in the bylaw to give more flexibility in that. Um so it does not specifically limit maybe is that something we have to look at >> the property is only
2 acres. So for all the other zoning aspects of it, um you couldn't have as many cottages as as they had. Okay. And you still have to have the subject for that.
>> I'm just worried about how that would impact any thoughts on tiny home village kind of concepts that could be coming. >> Okay. >> I think that's the planning board's job. This is zoning coming to you with an
issue that should be corrected. Planning board for future developments wanting to be uh more flexible with housing. You know what we've always talked about here is if it has if it's approved by the board of health for however many units
it is, >> if it's if it has town water capabilities, then if the board of health allows that, conservation allows it, um it should be allowable no matter what size the law is.
>> Exactly. >> Okay. So, but that's coming from planning. So what I'm fishing around for >> is a mechanism so we don't have to do spot zoning. That's what I'm fishing for. Yeah. >> Would would eliminating the date
eliminating things already in existing and allowing that to be go forward in future places in OCD zoning. Would is that kind of does that sound like that would >> I think that's what we should be looking at.
So what uh looking at what's allowed in OCD right now um you can have residential but it's a single family you can't have multif family apartments so it's um currently the way the bylaw is written even if we took the date out it
it doesn't really help with things like if we wanted to encourage like small cottage type developments uh because they wouldn't qualify under OCD and maybe and I guess I'm just speaking based on what I'm reading, but
like the motion I think that came from the zoning board. >> Yeah. >> Um adding after the words hotel motel, the following words shall include long-term rentals with kitchens in use. And this is prior to January 1, 2026.
>> I guess I would be wondering if we eliminate the January one the prior to because that would have the with kitchens and the long-term rental, right? That would >> that would open up that for anything in OCD.
>> That's where I would say actually. >> It seems that we're getting into that territory. >> Yeah. Because um they're zoning >> sure >> addressing an issue with that's come before them. And I mean I heard the
board going back and forth going back and forth. they were really um minded, >> excuse me, >> what they were looking to do and how they could do it legally. >> I don't know, Beth, how do you feel about because they had a lot of good
discussion. >> Yeah. >> At that and again, all all of it was not to lose the housing and not to misplace the people, but also not to open what might be a Pandora's box. And again,
planning gets to see any developments that come before them. And if planning approves them with special permits or not or variances, if it makes sense, you guys will do it because we need housing where it's where
it's allowable. Allowable meaning you can have water and you can have septic. And the boardhouse says okay. And conservation says you're not affecting the wetlands. the the lot should be used. >> So, we're in OCD right here. Right. Just
in the center of town. >> That's downtown commercial. >> The map right there. >> Yeah. Down commercial. >> It's yellow. Downtown commercial. >> So, OCD is sort of pinkish down here.
>> Yeah. At the end of town and a little bit >> on the way to West. So, that's by the golf course. Is that is that the pin cash on some of the main street areas? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because you've got outline commercial on Main Street, but it's between
residential homes. >> So, what I'm worried about is another one of these popping up. >> Because if you have water and you have septic >> by by this, we're saying it could be allowable. Yeah. Right. >> And that's my opinion. It's always been
my opinion. forward to January 1st. >> And do do we want to when people drive into the town see a bunch of these little cottages? >> Well, I guess that would probably be the question for the legal. How do you how do you make sure it's not spot zoning? Or maybe it won't be as it has been written and presented.
>> Well, that's that's why they had the date there because their conversations in in the zoning board was back and forth about do you want to see all this all over town? Okay. Well, then that's why they put the date in. anything that was built already to take care of this
issue anyway before the January 1st, you know, 2026. Again, anybody who wants to develop here has got to come before planning. Well, the the concern that I think Brett and I have is
if you if a community, not necessarily towns, does spot zoning, other abutters can say that their property is devalued or increased in value, whatever they
want to say, because this was done on one property. So, it can open a whole bunch of other problems when you start doing that because you gave it to one person, but you didn't give it to other and there's no way to stop it.
>> I understand, Robert, but let me put it this way. Being in real estate for a while here in town, the spot zoning on Main Street has not affected the values of any of those homes and they have not
been difficult to sell. you've got an issue now down across from um Harbor Auto that the guy was trying to sell the property that he bought at auction kind of thing. Well, there may be some issues there, but that that would be a great
opportunity for um zoning or that anybody who is interested to come before zoning to make that um the same that particular property is not zoned the same as Harbor Auto Body
>> and should be >> and should be. But that's another that's another issue. I'm saying I don't think anybody's property on Main Street or any of the main um roads 13 or 119, which is where you're going to see
this. You're not going to see it any place else. You >> I've seen it in other towns. Well, okay. I've seen it in other towns. >> Oh, other towns. >> Right. But so my question is, and this is for
everybody to think about, is what's the difference between spot zoning and getting a variance for a property? >> Variances are given very very
infrequently and there has to be a compelling reason. Um, in my time on this CBA, we've only given >> Well, we've given them >> um so >> on planning. >> Yeah.
>> And and she said it right specific circumstances and the need whatever the board then decides whether or not they're going to issue the >> Yeah. But the same argument you use for a variance, isn't it? >> But that's what I said. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. versus this is.
>> So the question here is do we change something in the bylaw when there is the variance opportunity anyway? This is not a variant situationally
prohibited by >> right for this is a special permit issued whenever for whatever and it does not it's it's not time for a v variance the variance would have been in the beginning >> so
>> development before any of us >> so we're changing the bylaw just for that one property to >> or anything else that might they they threw in the date so it would be should anything else come up that this would
already exist like >> so there was another situation that was the same it would be treated the same >> so what is the >> hometown hotel >> so that would have fallen I think it's a
condo condos now but if it was still condo And they they that would be an example of that would it was transient housing and they wouldn't want that. It was all kinds of stuff that went through that one. >> What is the trigger for this? Why
why do they want to change it? >> I think it was >> because it's existing. >> It was pre-existing. Yeah. >> Right. >> It was pre-existing. So it conveyed it would have conveyed with the property, >> right? >> It was conveyed as um the special permit was for a hotel hotel,
>> right? with a special permit to have kitchens, but it was supposed to be transient. >> And now it's permanent. >> And now it's long term. >> Long term. >> Oh, long term. >> I >> They're cleaning up something that
should have been cleaned up a long time ago >> because I'm pretty familiar with the way that it's run up there. And I might have known the previous owner. >> We all know the previous owner. >> Half the Harrison's. >> Yeah, we all know. So I mean that's the way it was run then. So we're just
trying to clean up the problem. >> I'm telling you as we can. So if there were other instances it could be covered um but without opening up a window or a door here for other
for this type of property which is pro is better managed I think through the planning board and their special permit process and such because then you can look at each proposal and make sure it makes sense and what are the right
things that they need to consider. I I just I'm trying I'm I everybody understands what we're trying to do. Okay. So, I don't think that's the issue or the purpose is not the issue. I think the issue is are we going to be
proposing a new these are the issues proposing a modification to the bylaw. Are we going to alter definitions? Okay. We're not altering. >> Well, no. I mean, what actions can this
board recommend or think of? Okay. So, this is an existing nonconformity. Um, so I don't know if it necessitates
a zoning bylaw change to begin with, if there are other alternatives that can be done. So the question that I need to feel comfortable with is reviewing the other options that exist.
One is a variance on the property per se. The other one is uh expanding the definition of existing karm. It's it's it's already existing
nonconforming. The use is residential. Okay. So I think within some of those, in other words, looking at what we already have, what's the best way to modify
and how to modify to accommodate what we're trying to do? And that's my concern right now because I'm not clear on what would be the best approach. And so I think that needs a lot of
discussion and to within this board. >> So one thing to note about a variance, the variance stays with the property versus a special one that change, you know, expires with the change of ownership. So if you wanted to permanent
use, then you could do there. >> That's right. So a special permit has a limit. >> Right. the minute that changes or even the owner changes um that permit can be withdrawn.
So we are looking at uh a better way to keep that permanent. And so um we can I I would think a variance would
be more appropriate personally um than a special permit. I mean a spot zoning. Um, that's what I see right now without thinking about it in greater depth. >> Let's let's just I don't want to totally
spend all night talk about this, right? I'm having a lot of fun. Let's go around the table and Harley and just as the board just >> any other thoughts. >> Okay. I uh I may be wandering into zoning board territory here. So, my my
uh if I do, >> but um >> I'm thinking um I think Lori made a good point about the fact that so far in town, we've had in the center of town, downtown, we have had an excellent
situation uh with with businesses coexisting with with uh residents. you know, it's technically, I guess you could say, a business district, but you know, people live there and everyone seems to uh approve of that situation, but in terms
of a uh now is this, forgive me for my lack of knowledge about this, but is someone actually planning on building a hotel motel? >> No, it is pre-existing, >> excuse me, >> pre-existing use. >> Okay. >> So, these cottages have been rented out
prior to 1970. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So it would not be a situation where a new structure would be built that would impact traffic or sanitation or anything. >> And that's where having it under special permit clause, okay, allows us to look
at those circumstances and determine is it detriment more detrimental to the neighborhood than the current, you know, >> in theory though, it could be, right? They could tear those down. Um, and that's where with a special permit, if they made a substantial change like
that, that permit would no longer be >> valid. Sure. >> So, they would have to go through other mechanisms to go there. >> Um, let's let's keep going around. Not I know Robert, you've got away with words, but >> okay. I I just wanted to get that uh
that clarified. So uh it it won't it won't directly uh affect this change of proposed change of wordage will not directly affect any situation any business or residential situation
existing right now >> and by changing >> well new building or anything like that >> right >> no the existing >> okay existing >> existing okay thank
Right. >> I don't know kind of mixing. So could anybody do that on any other piece? >> It would have to be >> that would be planning. >> No, it would have to be um this is uh specifically on the outlying commercial
business, >> right? and would have to be an existing motel hotel in order for them to come under the special permit section and then it would be >> so we couldn't just take another piece out of line commercial.
>> No, and say I want to I want to put them all out here. >> No, not not um outline commercial district allows like it only one's private January 7. Um, I forget there's like it's
allowed in OCD, but I'm trying to remember if there was a limit. I think it was you had to be pre-existing of 1970 in order to be a motel. Do you remember? >> No. >> But >> no, it's either allowed, am I right, or
allowed by special permit? >> And I think motel are by special permit. So, just to fill you in a little bit on the meeting itself, the public hearing is the date. >> Last or Wednesday? >> Last Wednesday. Do you mind want to
listen to that meeting? Um, I don't think they have to make a decision tonight anyway. I think you want to listen to that meeting because Vicki is getting really wellversed
um on the board and but Dave Chanel is now on the board and you know he's an attorney and Darlene Sudano is on the board and she's been on forever >> forever uh couple of decades anyway and you'll
hear the back and forth of how the board discussed and why they discussed and that's why I say well whatever warrant articles we do go before town council and he has to approve the the likeliness of it and he can explain to you when because you know
they'll have to be above a public hearing >> for the the warrant articles and he can be there and explain should there be what would be the downside what would be the detriment should this happen or or that there isn't any I just think that
would I know it gave me a lot more knowledge base on it when I listened to them. >> I can I have one final comment here. >> Let's just make sure we finish. >> I will not exhaust you. >> I know you won't, but I want to make
sure we finish Brett's comments and then we get to Carol and then I will be happy to have you do the closing bell. >> I guess I was just pleased to see all of our OCD turn into these little >> at this point. Uh the way this is
written uh unless there's a hotel motel there now couldn't happen. >> Correct. >> And plus again it's under the special permit. Um so it have to be reviewed >> which we could deny. >> So this whole thing is just going to go
before the town to vote on. >> So if it gets voted down then what happens? >> Good points. they're out of compliance and therefore um they would >> aren't there other like structures like
old places that maybe not to today's standards and they kind of didn't just exist. >> Yeah, but there's not multi-ousing. >> They're not multi. >> You know, you're looking you're pro probably single family homes. >> Yeah. you know, that wouldn't be the way
it >> is a very interesting property what we got on there. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I mean, >> I don't know of another property in town that's like it. The the closest thing or what was going on anyway was Benjamin's Hotel. >> The old girl scout camp.
>> Yeah. >> But is there anything now? >> No. >> Okay. only because I remember my my ex-husband's cousins aunts own some campground or >> something in town here that for years. I
don't know what where it was, but I guess I'm okay going. >> Yeah, >> maybe on Bon Pond area. >> It could have been. I mean, I know I I never came and visited it, but they owned property in town for years. Um and
um I did I told Beth um at tonight's select board meeting uh the our special town meeting isn't going to be the uh end of January which is what we were told you know last month but it will be uh February 24th. >> Okay.
>> Gives us some time. >> So it gives you time. >> Yeah. Because there'll be a public hearing on the warrant article. So in the meantime you don't have to make a recommendation until like two weeks before So you have time to look at their meeting.
>> I guess my question before we turn over to Robert, which will happen, would would this uh would this allowed them I did pull up the e-code and Vicki, I think to your point, uh section H says hotels motel in operation prior to
January 1, 1970 had the capability to expand to a maximum density of 10 units per acre with or without individual kitchens. Um would doing this. >> But that was hotel motel. >> Oh, I see. I see. >> Okay. Now it's going to be
>> long-term reserve res. >> I get I get you. Would Would this allow them to be able to uh add any more to their property? Do we know based on how the property is configured or >> I don't know. Well, it will be under a
special permit. And that would be >> um one of you know when I look at it and if we were going to do a special permit it would be like you no additional units um a number of you know because we want to deal with traffic as well as septic I don't think they could get that long they they just redid the septic I don't
think they could get more units anyway um and again back the special permit gives us that ability to um manage things like building you know septic um those kinds of things.
>> Okay, Robert, bring us home. >> I the way I see this, I don't think we have to take any action. Anything that happens on that property requires a special permit. This board can make a determination at that time or
a future board depending on what's being proposed. So, I recommend we just leave it as it is. um when and the thought of going to town meeting with it, a lot of the public I would assume would not have
any opinion either way. Um and then I think it's better for the community because whatever the applicant wants or is considering doing, everybody has an opportunity to review it. we get
feedback from the public and then we that that governing agency will be able to make a decision. That's my opinion. >> And then just I guess I have a follow-up question for if per Robert's suggestion to do nothing, they remain out of
compliance and then >> that's not going to work. >> That doesn't objectively work. You know what would happen then? >> They apply for a special permit. They won't get it because it doesn't comply. >> I'm sorry. Can explain that to me?
>> So they um so this started when um they tried to modify their the permit which expired which was already expired. So they applied for a new special permit under pre-existing non-conforming.
The problem is they're in the OCD um zone and that does not allow multif family long-term residents. So, we have a clause in our bylaw one,
what is it? Section 145-4, prohibited uses. If it isn't is if it is not explicitly listed in our zoning bylaws, it is therefore prohibited. And that's what we got stuck on. We we I thought we were going to be able to go
down that path >> and that killed it. >> Okay. So it's a tweak >> I see >> in the bylaw. >> Okay. >> So >> so it requires a minor modification. >> Right. >> Okay.
>> So the way I see this >> is modifying the bylaw. It would still require a special permit without all the technical components that exist. Now
>> special we have our is it five or six A through F >> we have to go through and make sure that >> all right >> it is not more detrimental. >> Okay that I can that I can work with.
>> Do you need us as a planning board to vote or move anything at this point? >> I think on that time I think I guess the process is we do a public hearing. >> Sure. >> Yeah. like the planning from here. You could you could vote to bring this
forward or however you want to make your motion. It doesn't have to be verbatim what they're proposing because it has to go through review. Legal >> legal review. >> Sure. Um >> so maybe I'd like to entertain a motion to to move the proposed zoning bylaw
amendment to legal review and then with the anticipation of bringing it forward for further consideration. Um, >> so moved. >> Second. >> Technically in Robert's rules, we're now Robert's rules, we're now in discussion. So,
>> it's in discussion. >> We're we're discussing now. There's a motion on the table. >> I I'd like another opportunity to review the language of that >> before it goes to the legal review. >> Right. >> So that everybody has a chance to think
of everything that's there or a better way to word it or whatever. Well, that's what a legal review would be. And I think that's what I'm hope my expectation is that >> well a legal review means it's that they
don't see any issue with it. Um, >> but there may be other opportunities to make it better or whatever. So, I guess uh while we're still discussing this motion, would the board
be more inclined for a motion to just bring it up at another subsequent meeting? >> That's correct. >> And then we discuss the >> potential options. >> I make that motion. >> Okay. I think this could be our first no vote as a board, but we have a motion on the table. I believe we must vote on it.
So, um, >> all those in favor of the motion >> that was previous >> that that was previous that Carol graciously moved, >> say I. >> I see. >> All right. How's this? Everyone going around the table say which? >> So,
>> no. >> I I >> I >> I would also say I. So, I guess it did pass and it will go to legal review as is, >> but um
We still have the public hearing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that is far from it is far from done. >> If we may get to the point where legal council reviews it, says it's fine, and then we have our discussion then and then we say bring it back. >> So we just spinning your wheels. >> Are we just spinning the wheel? Well, I
guess wouldn't if if that happened then that would be spinning wheels >> to submit it to legal without further diagnostic. >> I would I would look at the meeting. I would look at the hearing. Listen to the hearing. Listen to the discussion. I
think your I think your questions will be answered. >> I may not be able to express them correctly to you and I apologize, but I really think that you should listen to what the zoning board all discussed and
how they came to the conclusion. >> So, I think that would be helpful. >> We have we have made a motion. We have voted. So, and it has passed. But I guess let's just recap as a board to see if we need to readjust anything. Uh I let's just go around one more time. I I
felt comfortable with the zoning proposed and having it be reviewed by legal and if legal approves it potentially bringing it to the town. >> Robert, I'm going to abstain. >> Absolutely. Okay. >> I I approve. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. I'm comfortable with what you provided. >> Okay. Okay. So I think in that case >> we're okay with it. >> The motion was to bring the um proposal >> the proposal >> to legal review.
>> Yep. >> And with the intent of bringing it to town meeting vote. Correct. >> Correct. >> Did anyone second it? >> Yeah. Carol made motion. >> You made the motion. Yeah. Then second
it. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you very much, Vicki. >> Thank you very much. Okay. So, that now brings us to 2.4 um discussion and consideration of updates to the town of towns and storm
water management bylaws and regulations. >> So, quick update on that. Um, right now we did meet with EPA and uh the town needs to uh do some add some stuff to basically add it and I think we're going
to be able to add it into the regulation. Um, but Gar's working on that. So, we have a let's see we're right now we're under administrative notice. Um, and that means basically we have a deadline of getting this approved
by May 29th. So, it's in the works and we owe them a draft by February 14th of the um the regulations what we need to add to stay in compliance. If we don't make
administrative notice, they wouldn't tell me what happens next, but >> that's could be nothing. >> Not good. >> No. >> What are we out of compliance on? Did they tell you? Yes, I have that in your that's in your portal. So, there are two
sections that were added. Um, and I I haven't gone down into it. >> Yeah, they gave us the words that they want. >> Oh, we have the words. And that's what I as I said, can we just take this and put it in?
>> Like, well, yeah, but they have one. Well, you might want to go through and see, you know, well, some of it may may not apply. A lot of government agencies have it down. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't anything like
I think it was just they went they told us they went through the towns alphabetically and there were many other towns that mixed it. So, we weren't really lucky. They got to towns and they got to the team. I think it just take what everybody says if it is usually happy.
>> Yes. And if it's under regulations, it'll be done, you know, in a meeting or two. So that's good. >> So no action from us at this time. >> Uh no, I would make an informal support vote of the process being that it is a requirement. Um it's not an option. It
has to go and be done. So it's been >> what would you would vote? Would that be premature? Would or would we vote to have the building commissioner oppose what we're required to do? >> We just wait till it's ready.
>> Why do we even have I mean, if it's a requirement by the state, I don't even know why we vote on this stuff. Just do it. >> Just do it. >> I mean, just like the Carol's just do it. Just like the state says we have to
comply with the MBTA act. We go through this all this stuff. That really isn't a vote. It's not a free election because you get all these penalties if you don't go along with what the state mandates. >> So you don't have to vote. I'll take that back and we'll just go ahead and I'll keep you updated.
>> Okay. Okay. So that's 2.4. We've done 3.1. 3.2 the administrative report. >> Um it's in your folders. basically all the permanent related communications I think that session
>> okay um we did 3.3 um 3.4 for the route 119 corridor analysis. We we talked to the state about talking to the state. Um
well that's the extent of it. Um we haven't talked to the state informally but I think Beth, myself, hopefully Kieran and Jim Smith will have like an intro meeting with a woman named Anne Sullivan from um Mass District 3.
She manages the TIPS projects. Um and we're going to ask her um essentially about you know what it would it take to have this be considered for a tips project or if it she I talked to her very briefly um she was concerned about having too many people there which is
totally reasonable um and uh she had already mentioned that's she's already received some sort of analysis on that four corners intersection um by the high school. So that's already in their system. I don't know if I got a hard update for like if it's on the tips
track or not, but that's kind of where where that is. So once we meet with them, we'll have a better idea for, you know, >> what can we what can we expect now? >> So when you meet with them, is it will they give you a plan? >> Uh that sounds very optimistic for a
deal with the state. Um >> or what is it that you're going to get out of? the goal in my mind what the goal would be to to figure out from them what you know what could be the scale and the scope or what would they need to get it in their pipeline
>> because I know one of the project or one of the recommendations was that >> in the high school have the have the pickup >> on 119 sure >> and because I pick up my granddaughter at the high school that's a terrible idea >> sure so I and I think that's you know
part of it in an attempt to limit the number of like I don't think any of it is substantive on action or substantive on solution. I think it's more you know you know what are the options here from the state side you know will
>> they give us funding >> yeah more or less and potentially how much or how would they fund it or could they access federal funds or it's trying to figure out some of those earlier okay >> pieces before getting to the point >> so are we trying to get funding >> this is the whole corridor analysis
>> it's a whole corridor but what they did is one of their recommendations >> was in front of the high school on 119 was to have a pickup. So you pick up the high school students on 119
right Matt which because right now I pick up my my granddaughter at the high school >> at the high school but not on >> but but they had on one of their in the analysis >> they had a little on 119 a pickup. That
was one of their recommendations was to pick up the kids on 119 and have like a little little indentation. >> So they go into this obviously not the road but the high school area
>> no like right in front of >> you know that grass strip high school. So you could be like an invitation but the problem is you got high school kids now. You get all the vans lined up and all these kids have to come. If they if
you did that, you'd have cars coming in and then they'd be backed up at 119 because you're waiting for the kids to come and then you'd have all these cars backed up at 119. And then the kids have to walk from there in between all the little vans that are lined up plus all
the student cars and they come across the grass strip. So right now you go behind the school, they come out the little back gate, there's no traffic, you're all lined up, and there's >> It sounds like they haven't been out to town. >> And see how it works.
>> And it's like when they showed that off, they like that's a terrible >> They also proposed removing large amounts of fill from the road. They proposed I mean like the the scale and scope that was proposed. It went from
adding crosswalks and and stop signs to um a $20 million project, >> right? >> Oh, yeah. BMS or something or the the Yeah. >> Old Friendage Road going where all those retail shops are. >> To chair Shepherd's point, he really wants to find out what the state
jurisdictionally can do or may have interest in before we come to the local level because we're we're just spinning our wheels. We are having these discussions like you think you think they tell you like
>> like we we might have this much of a grant set aside. >> I don't I don't know. >> I don't know. Tell like when we I briefly talked to Mike Busel who was the town administrator in Ashb when they did the rotary on the end of railroad and he more approached it with them. Uh they
had to do a what was RSA? >> An RSA >> road safety audit. >> A road safety audit and they had plenty of highspeed accidents up there. So when I talked to her briefly, she kind of >> talked like they would need to do an RSA
themselves and identify, you know, they they would I think they would take in the study that was done and then I think they would do their own study >> and then and this is the type of thing that we're trying to clarify, you know, figure out what they would actually. >> So very very early.
>> Yeah. Yeah. She told me on the phone, she said, "Yeah, the timeline is 5 to 10 years for them to execute on anything." >> Cool. Yeah. So, I would expect this to turn this board to turn over. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or I'll be gone. >> If it doesn't, you should get a
certificate for your volunteerism. >> Put that Rotary Rotary there by Wheel of Road in Nashville or whatever that road is. That was probably not a bad thing. Yeah. >> But it's flat. >> It's flat there because I used to drive up there a lot
>> um with that road. I used to travel that road a lot for softball or whatever. Sure. Sure. >> And um so the rotary did >> Yeah. >> I don't see a rotary at the end of the hill here. >> Yeah. I have no I will not tie myself to
any certain idea by any means. Whatever. >> We'll just see if they have money and if they're willing to pay for something because I don't expect anyone any municipality to have excess amounts of dollars to do that >> at the moment. Okay. So that's 3.4 for
3.5 board web page update. >> Yeah, I just kind of wanted to update the board. All the reports and the latest revisions of all the planning reports are now up on the um reports and documents section of the planning page. Anytime you need to check anything or
review anything, it's all there. So, I just updated everything. There's transportation, there's the master plan, there's the housing plan, all in one place shopping. Is that the one drive? >> That is not that's on the town website. So, um I did put a guide in your packet
so you can navigate to it and just read everything. >> And I and I hate to do this, but I have to go back to the um a pertinent part of the report. We did get a new application just today.
It's an ANR application. So, we have to meet next Monday. That's okay. That will be what? Yeah, we will have to, I suppose. >> Okay. >> 15. >> Okay. >> And I'll have that all ready for you. >> So, we will have a meeting next Monday
the 15th. >> 15th. >> The 15th. Next Monday. It should be pretty judicious for an ANR. So, if it's remote, if you got to be remote, I think that's okay, too. Um, okay. So, that's 3.5. Um, 4.1.
I don't know if the Citizens Planner Training Collaborative still has winter sessions, but >> I did the 40B session last Wednesday. >> It was a Tuesday night. It was good. >> Okay. >> Which one did you do? 40B. >> Yeah. So, I know we haven't had any in a
bit, but I wanted to make sure I was, you know, refreshed because I worked the VBA as well. They're the body, >> but there are a few more in there. I'd recommend, you know, just looking down the list. >> Okay. So, next meeting. Oh, we already
have it scheduled here. So, oh, tenative. Sure. So, December 15th, that'll be the last meeting of December. >> Um, so I'd like and then the following will be the first meeting of January, January 12th. So, I'd like to entertain a motion to adjurnn.
>> I'll make a motion to adjourn at what is it? 8:17. Let's go around the table so everyone knows how everyone voted. >> Um, >> in a second. >> Second. Robert there in a second. >> And your vote? >> Yes.
>> Yes. King. Yes. >> Yes. >> You have to say your name. >> Did it right. >> Hardly pleasure. Yes. >> I'm gonna say Andrew Shepard. No. But I've been outruled. >> Okay. Carol Hoff is here. And and the meeting has been adjourned.