Uh, my name is Andrew Shepard. I'm the chair of the Towns and Planning Board and I call this meeting to order at 6:31 p.m. I'd like to have a roll call of all the board members present. So, please say your name for the record. Carol Hopsis present. Ples present and Andrew Shepard present. Uh would you
please join me in the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice
for all. Thank you. I would like to thank all of our veterans and those currently serving here and abroad, their families, and those who contribute their time to public service. We owe them our gratitude. This meeting is being recorded and will be uploaded to the
town of Towns and YouTube channel. I do have uh in addition to tonight's agenda, we can call it 3.4. We do have an applicant from a community member to join the planning board. Um and if time permits and if he does make it um we will discuss um the application. U
before I begin I do want to acknowledge the loss of Brenda Theion. She was the wife of our fellow planning board member Robert Theion who could not be here tonight. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Theion family. I'd like to briefly outline tonight's agenda. We
have in my opinion one of the most exciting planning board meetings and well attended that we've had in a good while. Um, so tonight is our public hearing for Townsen's NBTA communities bylaw. Uh, this was a law that was passed by the
legislature in 2021. Under this law, Townsen was designated as an adjacent community and tasked with zoning for 178 multifamily housing units by right. Um, I do upfront I want to be really clear that this is not regarding any area on
Blood Road. Uh, there will be a public hearing next week for a citizens petition. That will be Monday, September 22nd. As you will learn during this public hearing, uh the design by this planning board for this uh MBTA communities
district is for market rate units. They're not affordable. They're not specifically affordable. Um we are proposing a somewhat innovative approach that Joe, our representative from the Monachus Regional Planning Commission, will get into a little bit later. Um but it provides for multif family, two
family, and single family. um building by right. Uh tonight's discussion is specific to articles two and three on the special town meeting docket which will be this uh this September 25th which will be a Thursday.
Okay. So I would like to officially we've got one minute. We're going to wait one minute before we open the public hearing. And while we do that, Carol and Hartley, have you had a chance to review the minutes from the last meeting?
Yes. And I'm okay with the minutes. I don't have any comments. Okay. Uh, a motion to approve the meeting minutes from August 25th, 2025. I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes of August 25th, 2025.
I second that motion. Second. All those in favor? I All right. Passes. All right, it is now 6:35. I would like to to open the public hearing for the MBTA Communities Act Multif Family Overlay District. I'll
begin by introducing our board members. Carol is present. Harley present and Andrew Shepard. Uh there is a public signin sheet that is circulating. I believe it's still over there. It's over
by the entryway. Um, if you haven't signed in, please sign in. Harley, would you please read the legal ad? This is legal notice. Towns and planning board notice of public hearing in accordance with
provisions of Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 4A, Section 5. The Towns and Planning Board will hold a public meeting public hearing on Monday, September 15, 2025 at 6:35 p.m. in the Selectman's Chambers Town Hall, 272 Main
Street, Townsen, Massachusetts, to consider proposed amendments to the Towns and Zoning bylaw, chapter 145, as follows. Amend. What is that known this thing known as? Section, I think.
Okay, section. Thank you. Section 145-37 to I have to go back on that. I lost track. I apologize. Section 145-5 change quote apartment multifamily building close quote to quote housing
close quote add quote or multiple buildings on a lot. Remove restriction in dwelling units definition limiting unrelated persons to five. Amend section 145-37 exempt departments in the multif family
overlay district from special permit requirements. Amend section 145-42B allow residential uses in NFOD as of right not subject to special permit.
Amend section 145-42.1 to replace the site plan review special permit with site plan approval require landscaping plans and establish review timeline for projects with um
that uh that's that less than four housing units um greater Four. Okay. Greater greater than four housing units. Avenue section section 145-54.2
establish NFOD to allow multifamily housing as of right per MGL chapter 4A section 3A. Under a separate article amends section 145-54.2 B1 CP
F8. add single family dwellings to MFOD uses allowed as of right. Then the towns and towns and zoning map to include the multif family overlay district. The complete text of the proposed amendments above is available for review
in the land use office at town hall address above during normal business hours or by emailing our request for digital copies to planning townsa.gov. Remote access is provided as a courtesy
login credentials. Join Zoom meeting ID 891-96036724 Pasco 121589. You are invited to attend the public hearing and participate in the discussion. Any person wishing to be heard should appear on the date and the
time and the place designated. Comments may be sent to the board at the above town hall address or via email. As for said, prior to the date and time of the public hearing, Shepard chair published in the Boston Herald on August, excuse me, Broton
Herald on August 29th, 2025 and September 5th, 2025. Should I read the U CC? Uh, I don't I'm okay with I don't read the CC. Thank you, Harley. Um, yeah. Would you
the uh overlay district zoning amendments? Sure. And then I guess I would have a question for Adam. Do we need to read like Heartley read the um read each amendment and each bylaw or can we have
Joe go over them in summary? Joe, would you be willing to talk about the proposed amendments by? Yeah, I sure see. So Beth's going to be sharing it, but I guess for the public, this is Joe Bole, representative from Monusa
Regional Planning Commission. He's been working with the planning board, I believe, since sometime in 2023. Yes, it's been about two years. I'm principal planner at Monusa Regional Planning Commission and I've been working as a board consultant uh in uh
helping them get the response to the MBTA communities act. Excellent. Um so Joe, go ahead and just you know give an overview of kind of what we've been doing, what we're focusing on, the nature of the bylaws. So, the MBTA communities act um requires
uh housing to to adopt a zoning district in which multif family housing up to a density of 15 units per acre is allowed by 15 units per acre looks out to uh if you can picture a two family home on a 6,000
foot lot. That's just about 15 units a day. So, um the first uh action was to try to um choose a location. Uh the towns have considered three locations.
Uh one of which is close to the town line in the uh outlying commercial district right along Route 13. A second was right along 13 also with a little frontage on Old City Road. A second was farther back on Old
City Road just having frontage on Old City. And the third was also on 13 closer towards the town center in the vicinity of the water tank if you can picture that. Ultimately the decision was made to go with the
location down on uh on route 13 near the town line. Uh towns required each MBTA communities act communities each MBTA communities act community was uh assigned a number of units which is
responsible for zoning. the district that it adopts has to be big enough that at that density of 15 units an acre you get to your unit and so here in town it was 170 uh that works at 15 units an
acre that works out to right around 12 acres so it is an approximately 12 acre district growing down here near the town line on route 13 uh that location was chosen for a couple
of reasons. Uh first, uh that location was chosen because the other two basically were just found not to be particularly suitable. having potentially 178 units whose only in-n-out access was off of old city road, a winding narrow country,
that would recommended plan. Um, site conditions up by the water tower would uh uh really recommended against that location as well. all of the units, you know, but the overall district would
have been 15 units maybe, but much of it up on the ledge isn't wouldn't have really been buildable. So the units would have been all concentrated and it would have been on that area down by the road that see significantly greater than 15 units acre and that wasn't considered
desirable either. And so uh the vision instead was to adopt zoning districts in the back meaning away from the frontage in the back of your outlying commercial district here. The
idea being to preserve as much of the frontage along Route 13 business development as possible and push the units further towards the back away from the busy street and also to not eat up and uh to reduce as little as possible
the commercial development potential of your commercial district. Now I said that uh Townsen is required to adopt this zone. That is what towns are required to do. Adopt zoning.
They're not required to build the units. They're not required to do site work to make it easier to build the units. They are required to pass a zoning amendment which makes it lawful under the zoning to do this. This phrase that you're hearing, these units must be allowed as
of right. What as of right means that refers to the zoning under uh under a zoning bylaw. Look at a land use like two family home or drive-thru restaurant or something and it will be categorized as as allowed by right will be a Y for
yes put in your uh table of uses not allowed will be an N in your table of uses or special permit put an SP in your table of uses what it means to say that the units have to be allowed by right is that it's like that yes yes this land
use is allowed in this district it doesn't override the other regulations of interior zoning such as uh dimensional setbacks and or other zoning conditions and it doesn't override the nonzonic bylaws
such as wetlands laws um the state septic the sanitary law uh which which se if the zoning the the district is zoned to
allow 178 units other features related to wetlands and septic or other legislations reduce that the possible build up to less than that that's not a problem to councen has done what it's required will have done what it's
required to do by adopting the so the zoning approach that uh that worked out for this district was yes to allow by right um multif family housing at a density of
units an acre. Now, in a big wide open piece of land like this, one pos that with zoning allowing multif family housing, uh what might be built is a multif family campus, okay,
multiple bu apartment buildings that are together built in a in a you see an apartment complex. It was the board's desire not to push developers towards that, but rather to give them a second
ramp for how to develop uh this property which would be just as easy, just as convenient for them and be attractive to develop the property with a smaller scale with a mix of single single family
homes, two family homes, and small multifamilies. um that that would be a more desirable uh vision than just having it be one big multif family campus. So in addition to
uh adopting uh zoning which legalizes uh um multif family on uh district on on that side at that density sets a big lot size you have um already
in your residential zoning districts. There's a second element in here which allows for small lot down to 6,000 square foot lot uh two or single family homes. One reason that we think that that might
be attractive for developers to build that way instead of uh going for the big multi is that there isn't sewer here. So that we think that the uh lack of sewer capacity is likely to uh to to
restrict the development potential of of property. It's easier to build uh a non septic if you're not building very large apartment buildings. It's easier to build a septic system for a
single family home or for a two family home. So if the only that was allowed to be done on this property was a big multif family uh development then that might provide
enough of an incentive for a uh for the developer to bring sewer up to the property. However, if they can develop the property without doing that by building on septic and building smaller, then maybe they don't
bother with bringing up the sewer and they go with a second operant instead. There is no it would have to come up in Yeah, it would. Yes. And it would be a big And who's paying for that? The developer. If any developer wanted to do that, they would have to do the
work themselves. So, we're gonna we'll get to a point for public comment shortly. We're gonna we'll go through Joe's presentation. We'll hear mandatory referrals from different boards. This this is what I mean when I say that the lack of sewer is likely to be a uh
to to put a cap on the actual likely development potential of this site. If there isn't municipal sewer here, there's only so many units to get there going to be able to get there. and bringing out the sewer from wherever it is in Pittsburgh would be a big
expensive uh project, a big expensive project which might be worth it if he's building a great big multif family uh um development. But if you if a if a developer has an option of going in a different direction that doesn't require
that expense, that's why we put in the second offer. Now it's vote. Now the reason there are two warrant articles the MBTA communities act is on is on a warrant article which is going to uh be
up for a vote for a simple majority vote. That's because there was a bill passed by the state legislature which exempts certain zoning amendments which are uh done to uh authorize multif
family housing from the normal twothirds majority requirement and instead makes it simple majority requirement but like I said that uh exception is for amendments that make the construction of apartments and multif family housing easier not single family housing. So in
order to adopt the single family part of this it's uh those small lots as it's written in the firstborn article only two family houses are allowed on those small lots. The second article is to allow the option of single families who
will build on those small lots as well. Okay. Um, I think that's an o that's an overview of uh the vision and uh uh how the uh district and bylaw were created. Now is
the um only followup question uh just for the public and anyone listening the the evaluation process of these bylaws who reviewed them. Could you speak to that very briefly? Um like the HOLC and
Oh, okay. Yes, the the uh so I've been uh working for the planning board in the development of this and we've gone through multiple versions uh to their satisfaction. The district and bylaw were then sent for it's called pre-adoption
compliance review uh to make sure that what's being proposed will actually satisfy the town's obligations. And uh you know the last thing the town would want to do is have something at town meeting send the state then the state then says actually this isn't good
enough. So it went to the uh the state and uh they came back and they were happy with the district. Um I think they weren't happy with the inclusion of single family which is broken out. Oh that's right. They called out the
single family uh issue. Originally, it was going to be one more article and and they called out the fact that we single family uh if uh basically broken down, but ultimately the state approves what
we're have had council look at it and review it and has no objections at the moment. No concerns, right? And I think that's the biggest point that as of right now it has been reviewed by different agencies, different entities
has checked out. Uh we also have um uh Kieran our grant administrator present. Kieran did put together a list that has either been floating around or is on the table um of different funding that the state is tying to uh this effort. So if
uh ultimately it'll be the decision of the town before the town meeting whether to approve or deny this zoning and the state is attempting to incentivize it with high funding to it as the state does. Um next we'd like to go through um
the mandatory referrals we have from different town boards and departments. I'll read those quickly and then we'll open it up to public comment. I believe uh the first is from the water department. Uh the water department is
in full support. Next we have from the select board. The select board comments uh they suggest an affordable component. Highway department has no comment. The conservation commission also has no comment.
and the building commissioner has no comment. We also have um submitted by our superintendent from the water department. Uh just a one-page summary that I'll read. It says MBTA zoning thoughts. Getting right to the point.
There are a lot of health half truths and lack of understanding going around. So cutting through the clutter. One, there are no plans to build anything. You just need to put the zoning overlay on paper. Can you put five or six six home subdivisions in instead? Yes, it
doesn't say you can't. Two, why would a builder build anything for profit if there's no profit? There's no building. Three, who regulates the project if you plan to build? uh a the water department if there is town water in the area or
mass D if it is a well a well servicing 15 service connections or 25 people are regulated by mass D not the town D requires a 400 foot radius around the well which is 6.5 acres in which any
development restricting any development B the board of health will approve septic systems or if it is a larger Project Mass D who would approve a sewage treatment plan. C. The planning board. A project of this size would require large storm water
protection and retention ponds. You cannot dump water off the property. Example, Hannifford's retention pond. D. The conservation commission. There are wetlands. So, there are conservation restrictions. E. The building department. Every building must
meet codes and zoning setbacks. F. National heritage, various n natural habitat protections for endangered species. And then four, after all this research and before permitting, the contractor will think if it is cost-effective or not. The answer, good
luck. That was from the water department. And I believe, let's see, um, we do not, we have not received any written correspondence from Butters or concerned citizens. And now, uh, Unless
the board has any comments, I would like to open it up to public questions or comments. Anything from Hartley or Carol? Okay. So yes, I just realized there was one um
in addition to the state level reviews of septic and fire and whatnot, there will also be time reviews of this project under the site plan approval section of your um I had mentioned earlier this uh that these that multif
family housing has to be allowed by right that means cannot require a special permit. A special permit in which they apply to the board and the board has the option of saying no, we don't think this is the right location to have this land
use. However, uh by right zoning also allows for site plan approval. Site plan approval is a type of review review in which the uh the planning board uh is not allowed to say no this
is not the right location to put a multif family park. However, they have fairly extensive um district authority over the layout of the site, access to the site, layout, um architectural design, landscaping, things like that
are commonly viewed under site under site plan approval. Uh multif family zoning projects in this district would be going through site plan approval. Okay, I'd like to open it up for public comment for questions if anyone has any.
So to summarize this, we have no choice. We are required by the state to change our zoning laws. Um summarizing it, technically we do have a choice at town meeting and we can choose to not approve it
and then what happens? But to the nature I think of your question, the tying of the funding would mean that the state would remove some amount of potential future funding. So they also remove the requirements that
I can't. Yeah. So for the the grant funding, so I help you guys with the grants. Any past grants the town's already received are past grants. They've been done. any forward looking grants after January 1st, 2026,
no longer eligible. So like the Greenville Bridge, Council on Aging Vans, there's a whole list of them that you're no longer eligible for as a town that a lot of your residents and your different departments be highway, police, fire, etc.
Just the condition of the MTA zone. I I have to go with that. If it doesn't get through, I had lined up a $4 million grant to expand and it goes away. And this is Dave from the fire
department. So, next next comment or question I have a question about I will deal more. I'm not big on the state telling us what to do, but um we have x amount of residents here and if we go over that
certain amount, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but then we get switched into another status is either the town or and then we have to do certain things. So how does this 17800
people they're trying they're trying to put in our town affect moving forward it's changing the status of our this is the first time this question has come up uh you are not close you are not
close to needing to change your phone okay well give us a little better I'm going to make I can answer that one. It doesn't change the government at all. What it will change you is that you're
not anything over 10,000 people will affect the water department because if we're not a disadvantaged community in M2 in order because we went over 10,000. So we also have town council
here and I believe that so I think that's answering a slightly different question a valid question in terms of the 10,000 person threshold. When the MBTA communities act was first adopted or first envisioned the idea was that it would apply to MBTA communities
communities that are served by the Massachusett Transportation. there's only a handful of those subway communities and then the handful of commuter rail communities that then got expanded to include what were referred to as adjacent community. So it's not just any community that is serviced by
the subway or the commuter rail. It's any community that touches in any way even at a point any community that is serviced by the subway or community. And as you might imagine that about quadrupled the number of communities that were quote unquote MPA communities.
So for purposes of determining what bucket you fell into in terms of number one, when you had to comply with the act, how long you had, some communities had to comply two years ago. Uh number two, how many units you have to create in your community. They they base that on the size of your community. And so
fortunately for all of you, town fell into the community known as small adjacent. That's that. And so as a small adjacent community, you were not required and are not required to comply with the law until the end of calendar year 2025. There were some communities that were required to comply with the
law back in 2022. Unfortunately, you had quite a bit longer, but there's no concern. They've already determined it's in the legislation the number of units that you have to create. That number 178 was it? Yes. So that's the number you have to create those. You have to create zoning to allow that number. You don't have to
create the units themselves. And that number is not going to change. Was that the question where whether the township might get bumped up into the higher level of MCA community? No, higher level like town as city. Right. Right.
I'm going from a town to a city. Right. No, I know of I know of towns that are still open towns that are licenses. There there there is nothing in the MK community law that requires you to change your form of government from town to city. There are towns in Massachusetts that are larger than some cities. There are cities that are
smaller than some towns. It's just a form of government. There are also towns that have adopted a city form of government. They still go by the name of town to function like a city. The wild I think I saw Dave first. Yeah. I just have a question. These
units once built um are they rental units or are they owner occupied properties? Are they for sale or are they just, you know, rentals? That will depend on what the developer chooses. uh they zoning is not allowed
to make any distinction between the rental unit and the owner and ownership there. So uh this much housing at these dimensional requirements is allowed to be built there. It is up to the developer to decide does it want to
build apartments does houses does condos that that question it will be entirely up to the developer. I have a question. Hold on one moment. We'll get to you next. Hi. Um, this is going to change the face
of town greatly. This whole thing, um, number one, when you do the Olay district that basically invites building on any other lot in the same unit, correct? Just in the district.
Just Okay. So you're saying to South, we'll just use that as an example. Not that this is this is only on a very So this map right here where you can see in the pink is is limited to that area only. A district and these rules will only
apply within that district. That totals 12 acres that are brought over part of the commercial district. Okay, that that answers. Okay. So, in other words, the South Road, you can't it's that doesn't necessarily apply to there or any other larger parcels, just
that one district, just the end of Route 13 on the LER line. Okay. And I have another question with this multif family district and any other building that may go on in the future. Um because it will be building
other parcels. We're gonna have increased number of children and that's gonna impact the school system. I had someone suggest that while we could open up Ashley Elementary, I said that's cost
prohibitive. That would not be an immediate solution because that's totally out of code. It means lots of work. So, we're going to I mean I don't know what the ratios are now. I wanted to have that information for tonight or for meeting have that information what the school ratios are and I suspect with
the cuts itself that have been in the not pass that the numbers are up there for teacher teacher student radio ratios as it is. So that's a big concern of mine. Also, I guess have another question.
Now, it's come to my attention. Pine Ridge, I don't know how if that's been investigated or not that I will say that's that seems to be outside the realm of this public hearing. Uh we're not disconing zoning on zoning.
Not that could not be whether that was considered earlier on as a potential district. It has been it was not. This is the proposed district. So that that's not even considered could not even be considered.
So I in terms of the consideration process, there was a number of locations that were considered throughout the town. Uh there was a number of interdep departmental meetings that went on with different districts as well. Um I can't speak specifically to the interdep departmental if that came up or not, but you can't I'll defer to Joe. You can't
pick a lot that's already been built. Yes, counselor did it. So, let's defer to Joe. Um, some communities run their community districts partly or completely over
areas which are have already been built uh for a redevelopment district. um that the uh for example is looking at a district that's right in their downtown in in inspire
[Music] is ready to to build another building to replace the burn down. So that would Perfect place. People walk to town town center. We know we're in a perfect
location and I don't know. I'm here on the phone by the way. The pineage owner. I know we had you next on the questions. Do you have any Well, this is your time. So, do you have any other thoughts or questions? Um, just I think we just have to change
zoning. It's slippery slope for all the other parcels. We're going to have really really a lot of houses. live in many city that's not what people who move to child towns they want really they love the small time town and they're looking to change the total face
of it and I don't think that's right I know a lot of people um maybe no one can speak out about that but I've talked to numerous people you know and it's not something that we want to see changed and you can make the
houses look really pretty which is great but the number sheer number that are are coming down the line. It's going to destroy our town and how you view our town, people who and also affordable housing. How does that all play into all this too?
So, well, before we transition into uh ZAD, um Joe, would you mind speaking to how we went through affordability? And Karen, I think you may also have comments on that as well. So uh this bylaw is does not include any uh
affordability requirements. uh communities uh communities are allowed to require up to 10% of the units uh be affordable towns that Ashby is also working with are
because of some regulatory confusion are not in a position and are able to do that. Basically, the MBTA communities act allows you to acquire up to 10% of the units to meet an affordability
condition. Affordability condition that council would have to meet is based on the incomes of the Boston Cambridge metropolitan area. That's affordability for question, right? Well, guess what? None of us can afford that,
right? you're allowed to require your affordability uh to 10% of the units have to be affordable at 80% of that median income. Now like towns in are subject to the 40 B act. They have what's supposed to
subsidize housing inventory that's supposed to be up to 10%. That level of affordability would not qualify as an affordable unit for towns subsidized housing inventory that those have to be at 80% of a lower
uh using a lower level. So the affordable units that we could potentially require 10% of them would not actually count as affordable units for your account. So we um planned made the decision not to include affordability. So Kieran, do you have anything specific
to add? Not really other than from the affordable housing trust side, they had no comment for this. It was just the MBTA communities act. Um so specifically the planning board when we discussed affordability, we chose not to include any affordability
requirements um in those. So we had another question online I'd like to go to. Zad. Yes, thank you. Uh, my name is Zad Ramadan. I am the owner of Pineridge Estates Condominium. Uh, in 2019, I had a b a
building burned down on me made up of 36 bedrooms. I went to you, the planning board, and I got approval to replace it with another 36 bedroom unit. However, because of CO and everything that follows and the interest and everything else, I end up delaying building it
because of the cost going through the roof. I would like to still build it. Am I can I still build it because I know planning approval only is limited to a certain time after which is not valid anymore. And how does that what you're doing affect me replacing the building that was built? I mean, I already have
the septic for it because the existing septic is good. I have water connection. I have the whole infrastructure. I just want to understand how does that impact me. So thank you Ze for your question. Um I would defer you or refer you to Beth our planning board administrator. Right now
the the scope of this uh public hearing is specific to the MBTA communities and specific to your project and your permitting. Um that's not the focus of of tonight's discussion. All right. Thank you and um and answer any of those
questions. I believe I saw a hand over here. Yep. I was wondering so if we want this block to the zoning changes that they're requiring can anybody develop now that
now or do we have to save that for their purposes like their requirements on what we can do with the land change? No, there are no requirements that are any different from any other zoning change. But it's just creating a new
little zoning district and the property owner uh there now gains some rights to develop um the property in certain ways and that's it. So this lot is also I believe zoned as
neighborhood commercial. So if they chose to develop it in that manner. Right. Right. This is also an overlay district. Um but it an overlay district. Imagine a child's puzzle with big pieces. Now
imagine you lay a slice of baloney on top of that. The baloney covers one entire piece and half of another piece and a sliver of another piece. The the puzzle pieces are like the underlying zoning districts and piece slice of baloney is the overlay
district. We're creating an overlay district. Those underlying zoning districts still exist. property owners maintain all of their rights on the underlying zoning district. So if this guy wants to develop out his property
for uh commercial use under the outline commercial district zoning and ignore the MBTA zone and ignore residential entirely. That's his right and towning has still done what it's required to do. Um I did see Cindy's hand up online and
then I'll go back to the floor. I uh good evening. This is Cindy King, the other Cindy King, as I call myself because the other Cindy King is present there. Um I I want to speak in very strong support for the town to approve
this the MBTA community's um zoning. Um I want to make a couple points. One, I I think it's important for all of us to understand that this is again strictly zoning. There is no secret plan. There is no town board that's sitting there
waiting with baited breath to contact a developer to get in there and break around and start building 100 apartments. That is not in the plan. This is strictly allowing for the use allowing the owner who is not the government. It is privately owned. And
as far as I know, the owner of this property, it's a family trust. Unless something's changed, it's owned by the family that owns towns and Ford. back several years back if you've been here as long as I have that there used to be Towns and Ford annex. They used to have
a used car lot down there and they shut it down probably in the '9s I think. But I'm I I I don't know that anybody's talked to them about what they want to do. But I wouldn't be surprised if they have absolutely no interest in building any housing down there. They may want it
for their family for generations to be able to go back and maybe even move town I'm speculating move the main towns and fort down there or put in another car lot. I don't know. But that there that they have not been part of this conversation that they I would assume that maybe they don't have any interest
in building a bunch of housing down there. We're right now in in this pickle that the state has put us in. And I know a lot of people are just angry that the state's telling us what to do. And I know some people want to vote no on this strictly because it's the state telling
us what we have to do. And it's a lot more important to us to vote this in than to put our stop signs up because one, there's no guarantee we're going to get any housing out of this, but the
punishment is severe. And there's at the beginning of this hearing um it was mentioned that Kieran had done a list. I think it's passing around the room, but you haven't mentioned what some of those things are of grants that we've had in the past and that we are
ongoing grants that we are guaranteed to not get again if we vote this down. The state is not giving grants. There's other communities that are already had their funding pulled. So, the threat is real. It's not just a wild threat. It's real. Uh, one grant we get every year is
the Green Communities Grant. We've been very good about getting that and that's $200,000. And these grants I'm going to I'm not listing all of them, but um these grants are things that we depend on to run this town. And we've been saying no to
overrides for several years, and I'm okay with that. But if we say no to MBTA, these grants are going to amount to nearly $2 million that we're going to lose. And that I'm telling you, we're going to have to replace that money from
somewhere. And if you're not willing to vote in a $2 million override next year, then you got to vote this in. If you vote this out, we got to come up with $2 million next year. I'm just going to give you a couple more of what's on here.
I think you've made your point. In the interest of time and we do have a full room, I'd just like to turn it over to Kieran briefly to speak to specifically on the grants and then we'll continue with with other questions. But I do believe I have one more point then I'll if you to let him but I think listing them and
not just having a paper around the room because this is going to be seen on YouTube and people need to to see what was talked about. But um but I'm I'm glad the owner I don't know if he's still there. the owner of Pine Ridge was on there because I wasn't aware that he was still planning on building over there. But when that
building burned down, we lost a lot of tax revenue that we have lost. If anybody builds anything, we need the tax revenue to to replenish our budget. That's one of the reasons why we have financial difficulties. And I know Mary Jane had a question about the increase
in population if we build more apartments somewhere else. But if we go over 10,000 residents, well, we were right about at that level when Pineriidge building burnt down and now then we dropped below 9,000. So, it's not this is not a a crisis of oh my god,
the world's going to change when we hit over 10,000. We've needed to replace that building that burnt down in one way or another. It will absolutely help this town if somebody builds something, whether it's down in the MBTA area or if it's actually Pine Ridge. But we we
really need more more buildings to help our town, both the residents as well as the tax base. But we're really we're really in a in a a dark place right now and passing this MBTA thing. One is
again, it's just a zoning thing and not a development we're approving and it just having this on the books will continue to have the money flowing in from the state. Thank you. Thank you, Cindy. Uh briefly, Kieran, I know you earlier mentioned some of the
grants. Would you just mind getting a high level of some of those grants? Yeah. So, for instance, if anyone's gone by Kids Country, anybody been doing there recently? It's a beautiful new playground that's accessible designed and accessible for all people. Whether you're in a wheelchair, you've got bad
ankles like I do, or you're my dad and you're 80 years old and you can bring your grandkids in, that type of playground and that funding opportunity gets undermined without MBTA compliance. And by undermine, that means you compare us to Tinsboro versus Townsen. Towns
MBTA compliant and sorry, Tinsboro is Muta compliant and Townsen isn't, Townsen gets an advantage in the rating. Same with the sidewalks that were done down by the South Harbor light there that are ADA compliant to improve the accessibility for the rail trail. Things
like that matter to the town and we can't afford to pay the folks that are working to do some of that work because we have really constrained budget. So, it's just an opportunity that pass the MBTA compliance, nothing really changes other than the
NRPC gentleman's point, it's just an overlay. There's no there's no eminent, you know, domain or any, you know, housing plan. It's just an overlay. They still have a lot of herbals that go through or even a house or shovels in the ground. Thank you, Karen. Um, so I saw a lot of
hands over here, but I am only really looking this direction, so I just want to take a moment. Have I missed any hands over here? commercial residential. Yeah, right now it is is currently commercial. I believe it's called outline commercial. Well, we know whether I knew it was the
old Ford dealership. I bought a car from there. So familiar with the area. The answer to your question was both. It will be for both commercial and residential. will have an underlying commercial district and an overlying residential district and property owner
will have the right to develop it under both one or both sets. I really hope that if this gets built out that the property owner takes advantage of that and does a mixed use development combination 12 acres correct
we're minimum you have to build on three acres to acres in the new the sizes in the new district are smaller yeah according to saying it's two acres
you need exchange for residential change for residential. Yes, that's what I said. It's changed for residential. Yes, there's there are if the new overlay zoning the new overlay district gives
the property owner the right to construct residential multi family, two family and single family um on lots of of the dimensions that are described in
the uh in the amendments. Okay. If for multifamily housing, for those residential uses, uh those new dimensions do not apply to other uses. So if you wanted to build a car lot or you wanted to build a shopping mall
industrial use or something the the dimensional requirements of the both the underlying commercial district it's only if he builds the residential uses described in the MF zoning that those
new dimensional I'd like to come back to you and then I'll go back over here. So, I believe Mr. K, I saw your hand up. Well, I'm aware of the housing crisis and the affordability aspects and I know the governor of great state of
Massachusetts has put us in this spot for the the executive order for MBTA and MBTA adjacent communities to change the zoning law to the multi-ousing family overlay or failed. Sorry if I don't have the warning right, but we use the time yet to vote on it. However, I'm just
venting and I don't know whether maybe other people have the same viewpoint, but I personally do not find this to be very democratic. In our town meetings, we get to have a voice in majority rules or the simple majority, but how democratic is it really be told that
this is a law you have to vote for to be forced to vote yes and to be told that if there's a consensus of a no vote that there will be negative consequences. So, I personally find that an oxymoron that you do this, this happens. If you
don't do it, this happens. I've done some research. The town of Vegeta, it was an issue. I think they're in court over it because they voted no. And I know that one of the negative consequences besides the funding opens up to 40. Am I correct? And 40R housing
if it's not compliant. So, so you're you're subject to 40B and 40R anyway. So, 40R is a municipally driven program. So, nobody comes in and sort of forces a 40R upon you. The municipality, the select board initially have to support a 40R. So, that's not a
risk. 40B is a risk. If you're under that 10% threshold on the subsidized housing inventory that Joe had referenced earlier and towns in under 10%, um you're subject to chapter 40 whether you adopt this or not. This is apples and oranges. I see. So, uh, 40, can you again press
my memory? We're under the stock. We're at like 4.3. It was supposed to be 10%. So, I I'm sorry. I just don't quite grasp how we're going to get to the 10. We're not trying to. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I had that straight in my mind before I go any
further. So, this 12 acre parcel that's related on the um the Lunberg Road And that's going to be on 13. 13. So that is going to be on the town meeting uh as floor as well for a vote.
Yeah. Yeah. September 25th, I believe, will be Thursday. September 25th will be the special. I just wanted to make sure I had all my ducks in a row. So I kind of had my own mind because all this confusing for me. So I just wanted to make sure I had it
straight in my own mind. Um the other thing is too the um part of the MBTA um goals are to have more housing closer to the places this is part of the the law that I was reading that we go every day such as shops, jobs, schools,
restaurants, etc. and to have better access to work services and other destinations by increasing mobility and utilization of public transit. Right now I understand the MAR is um you can get it by direct
phoning as needed basis. So is that going to satisfy our requirement for public transit? Okay, you the town does not have a requirement for those are the goals and vision that they hoped that writing
their um housing zoning uh law would help to promote. But in terms of what housing has has to do, we don't have a public transit. We just need So, as far as um town planning, I I do know and it's
going to be I'm not going to directly reference the hearing that's next week, but I do know there are things in the works too that do um address more housing needs. So, I as far as knowing that there are more things in the works.
So, I'm just speaking that there are things in the works currently. And just to just to drive home once again, this zoning amendment will have no effect on any other part of the town
except that everything that's all of those all of the language of the amendments only apply will be. If you wish to if if somebody wanted to apply those somewhere else to another partial town, it would require a whole
new article to amend your uh zoning to amend your zoning map to draw the overlay somewhere else and that would have to pass it. I that's I guess that's the roundabout question I was getting at the roundabout way. So, thank you for answering that question.
All right. Thank you. I think the next hand I saw was Ken. Thank you. So in this district with the pictures that you show, so you show the one of So a developer could put in maybe eight
of those or something that those [Music] thinking from the vantage point of development and their profit because it's our market they could forgo the
numbers. So when they come in it's no requirement that they need that is an arbitrary number based on on us by the state. So very
they could decide they wanted a small little cluster development and that is what they could do or they could do something that is a mixed use with shops
restaurants cost for 17 and the other question I have so there's there's no requirement ever for any developer can you speak up so we can hear you over here sorry sorry what I was saying is that there's
no requirement for the developer ever to have to get to 178 that while that was the number that the state placed on us no one ever has to get to 178. It could be developed how the land owner sees it.
The question that I did have though, while all of the regular restrictions are in place for this district now, can anyone ever come back and try to apply to it? Because it says specifically that it has to adhere to all the wetlands and all
the other regulations. So, does that mean that we would always adhere to that and that we could not buy a rule or could they come in under 40? They can come in under 40. They can always come. There's virtually nothing you can do from a local zoning perspective that will prohibit a
potential developer from proposing a chapter 40. You can have a residentially zoned parcel, commercially zoned parcel, industrially zoned parcel. You can have a parcel that has an underlying zoning and three overlay districts on top of it. Um the concept of 40B is it's a state statute that gives applicants the
right to come into your community to go to your zoning board of appeals and to ask the ZBA to grant waiverss from all those requirements whatever they may be however many levels on them they exist. So technically you could have a MTA zoning like zoning district that is the
subject of a 40B development. But I will say from experience because I get this question a lot in the context of 40R. Can we reszone an area under chapter 40R? I mentioned before that 40R is driven by the municipality. Can we reszone an area under 40R and does that ensure us guarantee us that we won't get
a 40B? Well, again, the answer is no. However, what I've seen in practice is that when you allow the sort of greater densities that are typically associated with 40R, and you give a developer a choice to go the straightforward 40R as a right way, which is what you're allowing in your MFOD as of right, or go
the much more difficult 40b way, where they have to go to DBA, they have to see waiverss and exceptions. If the board is is reluctant to granting, you have to appeal to the housing appeals committee, they have to litigate the case for a year or two or three. They would much rather go to buy rightway, even if it means slightly lesser density. But to
your point, sometimes there are issues of wetlands title five that they can't get around in the context like this force them. So it's not an absolute shield, but it isn't disincentive. Thank you.
This amendment would change how easy it would be. The whole point of that local adopted list or not. So, do you see your hand up? I don't know if it's a question or about the sound. I want to say that those of us who are
seated over here, the blower is too loud and we really are at a disadvantage and can't hear a lot of what's being said on the other side of the room. Can the blower be turned off or can there be a microphone here? If if you get to the point where you
can't hear anything again, um just feel free to shout it out. Okay. Thank you. That that should be a little bit um I'd like to go the last hand I saw I think was a gentleman on the end and then I think I saw some other hands back over here.
What are uh some environmental effects from this area if you were to do it any build stuff? I know it's a lot of wooded area over there. Sure. So I think from the perspective of the planning board, we've only been looking at from the more narrow lens of
selecting a lot that's somewhat reasonable. And as to what the developer would choose or how he would deal with that, that would be subject to whichever developer, but I don't know if Joe has any comments. One one one point I'd uh bring up in response to that is one of
the reasons that this site was considered appealing compared to the other two sites is that it is already marked for development. It's zoned for your outline commercial development. It was drawn to a certain depth to allow a
certain size of uh of development there. the the town's vision has been that this will get built out as a commercial district. So, it's, you know, as opposed to the other two sites which are wooden areas in residential uh in
your uh in a rural residential uh zoning district in which even on buildout there is going to be a lot of woods left. That's not what you currently have this area zoned for. So putting you have this area zone for is for a big
district-wide buildout and so putting the multif family overlay district over there is putting it in a place that was already slated for development not a place that the town had wanted to keep. Does that answer your question?
Back to this side of the room. Any other hands? Any other questions? Anyone behind me? So there is water there, correct? I don't believe there's water yet. There is not. So we would have to pipe that in. No. Oh, you cannot pipe it in.
Would it have to go well? Yes. Because I know up they Let me give you the full answer. Thank you. So there's 250 ft of elevation you have to overcome and in a mile of water station. So you have to have somebody would have to pay
a half a million dollars for a parking station and pipe the water up the hill as it currently sits now or use 6 and 12 acres of the land to put a well in because the town has zero control over well after 25 people.
Yes, because I know because up in up uh was going to do that with the commercial the condominiums and thank god they didn't because we were unwell and that would affected our So that's interesting. Yeah. So there's a there's a lot there's a lot more to it and
there's a lot of state regulations you have to go by. I guarantee you that piece of land would not even come half of what the housing that could possibly be there because there's too much wetlands. There's too much water.
There's water as well. There's wetlands in there. I guarantee there's wetlands in there. And so there's a lot of other stuff going on. There's never going to be 178 houses. no matter how hard you you try in that there's just not enough land to
put to meet all the regulations and and on just for I've just been through this with the building for the the treatment plant and the well there's so many regulations and so many permits from the state you have to go through
it's unbelievable and I I know I know the whole process we put two buildings up on our in our property at work and it took us five here so you can get shown on the ground. Correct. That's what it about takes. And just for the grants that we got from the state
what the town got, we got so far we've gotten over $13 million in grants for that building and and we're still get we're still getting come. So it's a it's a huge it's a huge um process.
Okay, another question. So where does this leave the the two parcels on Blood Road and South Row Road at? So as of right now what I tried to say earlier so I mean right now this is not the focus of that and next Monday I
believe is a public hearing on a citizen position petition that came that is coming to the plan board. So tune in next Monday. Exactly. Sure. [Music] Can I address that?
It does nothing to them. It will have this zone. These zoning amendments, these two warrant articles will have no effect whatsoever anywhere except this little zone on 13, the town. So, we'd have to go through the same
process for to allow uh developments in those other two areas. Uh to do this to do this there you would have to you'd have to do the same process to apply this district but this will satisfy the state's
requirement correct it will yes for this has nothing to do with completely different so unaffordable housing gives you entirely different lots of land and overlays
[Music] So on top of this, the state's requiring us to make other affordable housing. Well, not as BTA, but there's the existing 40B uh uh law which has all which already applies to the town and
has already for a long time applied to the town. Adam, would you like to comment briefly on that? That's right. I mean, so the the town has been under a statutory edict for decades now that requires you and every other one of the 350 cities and
towns to meet this 10% threshold. And there are a number of other thresholds that that would also apply that could potentially be off ramps to avoid the 10% rule. But you've got to meet these affordability targets that the state has created for you and they've existed for many, many years. So you hear the
references to 40B so often because 40B is a mechanism that developers use to create affordable housing communities that wouldn't otherwise allow them to build sorts of densities that they deem to be profitable. Um it serves a dual purpose. It's profitable for them as
developers, but it's also supposed to be beneficial for you as a community because it creates affordable housing bringing you closer to the target that the state has set for you. So 40B requires a minimum 0.5% affordability. The idea is that all those affordable units count on the inventory, your
inventory, and bring you closer and closer to your 10% target. Of course, it's a bit like chasing your tail because at the same time, you're building other market rate housing, which is includ which is increasing the overall count of market rate housing in the community. So, as the denominator
increases, um it it makes it harder and harder to meet your 10% goal. But the affordability requirement has existed for many many years, unrelated to what we're here for tonight. MFOD. This is an entirely different law. This is a law that is relatively new. Was adopted just a few years ago that requires for the
you to adopt a zoning district for more dense housing that in town's case is not even affordable housing. It's market housing. Okay. Can I just I just ask real quick to Let's do a real quick question. I'm gonna go to Lori who's here as who is a
select board member. Real quick. I'm sorry. I just want to ask you something about this affordable housing. So, um, if we don't get that affordable housing in by a certain time, are we penalized for that, too? No. No. No. So, so, so that law doesn't have built-in penalties the way that the MBTA
communities act did. Okay. Um, the risk if you don't meet that 10% standard or one of the other thresholds they've established is that you continue to um become liable to potential or open to potential chapter 40 B developments. Once you hit that 10% threshold or one
of the others, you can turn away unfriendly projects, 40B projects that you would rather not see in your community. There are a number of communities, a few dozen communities across the state that have met their 10% threshold. And once they've done that, they can say no to 40Bs. Nobody can come in and force you to don't to force you
to approve something that would be too dense for your community because you've already met your threshold. But most communities in the state, I would say upwards of 70% of communities are nowhere near their their their 10% threshold. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I would like you to go.
Um I want to speak as a professional and I think that um Adam can maybe fill in a little bit because this has not been brought up and that is that there have been communities that have sued the state for this mandate because nobody likes to be told what to do especially
if there's no money coming to you for doing the mandate. But as Joe pointed out we don't have to ever build anything. We just had to find a spot that the state would approve. We we spoke of at least
six while on planning at least six spots before we got to three and then we picked another which was not agreeable to the state and then we ended up with this one which was one of our favorites anyway to begin with. So two of the two
of the cities or towns that sued the state lost. the court upheld the state's mandate. If you fall on that side, like Adam mentioned, or I think it was Kieran, I'm
sorry, mentioned, um, you get to the bottom of the pile. You're not going to be looked at favorably at all. And as that list shows you, it's over $2 million that we've received in grant funds that has benefit the whole
community. So I think the planning board had worked on this for almost two years now and all of them were public meetings and all the videos are still there if you want to go back and see the process that we went through and I think we did
a pretty good job and Joe did a great job for explaining the summary to you now and I don't know anything else on the law cases lawsuits that you would say I mean all all I would say and because I heard something said at the outset of the meeting that you you forego
eligibility for various grants. Well, that's what we were being told three and a half years ago. So, if you read the actual MBTA communities act, it referenced three separate grants and that was the penalty if you didn't if you chose not to comply because the language doesn't suggest you have a
choice. I know we've all said casually that well you can say no if you want, you can vote it down at town meeting and you become ineligible for grants, but that's not the way the legislation is written. The legislation says you shall adopt a zoning district that permits this sort of density. And then a couple of sections later in the law, it says if
you fail to do so, the penalty is ineligibility for three different types of grants. So that's what we were advising our communities in the first few months after the MBTA Communities Act was adopted that you would forgo these three grants if you chose not to comply. Well, then the state said, "Well, we didn't really mean it was
limited to those three grants. We just meant that those are the three we specified in the legislation. We really meant you could be ineligible for any grant program that is established through the Commonwealth. And then when community said fine, we don't need your money. The Commonwealth said fine, we can actually sue you because your failure to comply with the act is a
discriminatory practice under state and federal law. And as we know, they have done that. There has been there have been a number of lawsuits, both the state suing a community and then a number of instances where communities, including two of which we represent, suing the state. And those lawsuits suing the state have been unsuccessful.
The courts have upheld the law and indicated that it was within the authority of the legislature to do so and it was it was within the authority of the executive office of housing and livable communities to implement the regulations that we're all talking about in in drafting these bylaws. So, it is true that you become ineligible for
various grants, but that could be the least of your problems because you could also get sued and be forced to do this anyway after you pay me a lot of money to information about the I just want to wait one second and Heartley raised his hand. Yes. Uh Lori, correct me if I'm wrong,
but what you just said is this is a matter of deciding on zoning. It doesn't necessarily mean we are or have to be committed to building anything in that we wouldn't be doing it anyway. Right. But whoever wanted to would have the
right to. Right. Right. But but u it doesn't necessarily mean that if we comply with the NBTA on this that we're going to have to build something on there within a particular period of time.
Okay. And then if we should decide if collectively the town decides it's okay to build something on there, that would be uh for us to decide what kind of building. It wouldn't be the state that would tell us exactly what to build. The state's not going to tell you a
developer is going to come before a permit. Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, it doesn't just affect grants that the town gets. Um, I spend a lot of time in Pittsburgh and on behalf of a nonprofit, I wrote a grant to mass development underutilized properties.
And when you fill out those grants from the state, even if you're a nonprofit, there are questions in there about whether the city or town that the money would go to has met their requirements for all of this. So, it's it's nonprofits in the towns have to answer
these questions, too. So, it's a whammy on everybody. Thank you. Um, situation. It's got a ripple like tentacles. So I I know this on this note which is quite the rosy note. I know we've been dwindling down with a number of questions. Are there any other questions
or new topics that haven't been brought brought up this evening? None. Okay. Anybody online that we haven't looked at yet? I'm not seeing any. Um so with that, I would like a motion to close the public hearing.
I make a motion to close the public hearing at 7:48. At 7:48. Any second? Second. All those in favor? I. The eyes have it. Public hearings are closed. Let's see. So, um, so thank you all for coming. Um,
be happy to have you guys next Monday if you're interested or any upcoming planning board meeting. We have lots of fun. So, we'll wait a moment for everybody out of How are you?
[Music] We can do that after the public hearing. Yeah, that was next on my bullet point. Um, okay. So, the it's quieted down a little bit. We've lost a lot of our audience. They didn't come just to see us. Um, I
would like to entertain a motion um to move the proposed zoning amendments as written and as posted in the warrant to comply with chapter 4A section 3A forward to the voters at the special town meeting on Thursday, September
25th, 2025 at 7 p.m. at the North Middle Regional High School auditorium. I second. Second. All those in favor. There's no um so Carol you motion
hardly second. Yes. I guess Beth will find that. She probably already wrote it down, but you can write it down for work. Um yeah, I'm here. Got it. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Is Is any one of us jumping at the opportunity to present this at town
meeting? God. That was a god note from Carol Hartley. Okay. I see a lot of excitement in your eyes. Um I guess as with the honor of being your chair, I shall take the uh I will do it and you will do an excellent job. Thank you very much.
The the sheep will follow the shepherd as it were. Ah that's very sweet of you. Okay. Um okay. I believe that is it. I think board reports and presentations if any should be complete. Um so I guess if we have a report or a presentation for
special town meeting um we could talk on that. I will work up some things with uh potentially with Beth um that we'll say on our side and Joe I expect will have you at the special town meeting. That is up to you. Um
that is a if you're available I think we'd like to have you. Okay. What what's the date of your time? September 25th. Next week from Thursday [Music] all right. Um, so that let's find the agenda. We do have our special guest
tonight. Um, didn't you make that as an addition to the agenda? I did make that as an addition. 3.4. Yeah. So, let's let's take care of Brett while he's here. But Brett, if you want come on up or you can sit right there.
Okay. Um tonight we have Brett King joining us. Brett applied to be uh um for the vacancy to join the planning board. And if we have any questions, there is a tentative meeting. I believe we have to vote as a planning board to recommend him, but there's a tenative joint
meeting scheduled with the select board or it just got moved late in September. Um assuming we vote to approve Brett and join add to board. Okay. Do we do vote tonight? Uh this way I would
I was just going to add that um the select board are meeting right before town meeting on the 25th. So I'm not sure that that would be appropriate for a joint meeting. So we were probably going to October then they're they're meet they're meeting following uh the
29th. I'm sorry the 25th. Yeah. Ultimately the process wise we would vote to recommend Brett and then when we can get that up schedule. Okay. I can help. Exactly. Yeah.
So you can approve your volunteer. Thank you Brett. And uh move it right to Sabrina. Okay. If you choose move it right to Sabrina. Um we have an executive session on Thursday at 5:30. It which has been
posted. Right. Can I uh send in a revision or can I make an addition at the meeting because it's not No, you No, this has to be posted for 10 days. The joint meeting has to actually be posted 10 days prior to the
appointment for the charter. The position wasn't posted already. No, the joint meeting has to be posted with the applicant's name so that it uh it's either five days or 10 days but yeah no there is a period of posting for that
I just know about open meeting but she's talking about posting the agenda the agenda posting sorry for the joint meeting to appoint we as the board will make well Dr. Brett, if we like him, we'll ask him to
join as long as he's not fed up with having been here for two hours and a half. Vacancy has posted for 10 days. That's posted already. So, let we'll figure that out. I guess I don't know if we need to figure that out right right now, but No.
Brett, do you have any thoughts? We'd love I think we'd love to have you potentially. Does the board have any questions for Brett? No. Um, you know, Brett has come before us before. He's a developer in town. Um, as I've disclosed, I work with Brett on the fire department. He's one of the deputy
chiefs. I work as a firefighter there. Um, any thoughts, any comments? No, we do still have a couple ongoing projects. We understand we have to I have to recuse myself from anything that that I have going on in town, which is not a problem.
Any comments or thoughts from the board? Hello. Well, we we don't we'll say if you I can't promise that all the meetings will be as exciting as this one. Sure. Uh so I guess I would like to
entertain a motion to uh recommend Brett for the appointment of the vacant position on the planning board. I'll make a motion to appoint Brett King as a member of um the planning board to the select board for appointment. I
second the motion. Okay. All those in favor. All right. Um and then I guess um Beth and the select board, we can work to figure out what day how that would work. Sounds good.
All right. Thank you. Um so let's see. What do we have next? Um meeting business. So 3.1 is discussion of any edits to zoning bylaw amendments and finalized text of the amendments. I believe we did that already.
All done. Yeah, that's what I thought too. 3.2 was the public relations um MBT community zoning law compliance. Um was there anything specific to that, Beth? I that's kind of just pending, right?
Uh well, it's ongoing. So, between now and the 25th, um if the board has ideas about how they want to disseminate information, um public information, that'd be great. Uh so far, I've reached out to
uh town approved social media, uh Facebook, um I'm not sure that that's the best option because a lot of comments come back and and things, you know, are not exactly as they are presented. Uh, so I don't know what the other options are. I
think we talked about a highway department sign. Um, so that would be great if we could get something up, you know. Um, other than that, the board has any ideas in terms of how you want to get the message out to the public and I can help. Let me know.
Okay. Thank you, Beth. I don't I think I believe the highway signs. Yeah, we've already approved that. Oh, you have? Okay. Okay. And today I sent your whole thing from our town website to towns and what's
going on and they did put it up. That was this morning. Awesome. Thank you. information on great I guess the biggest thing that um that I saw on the internet and I try not to spend too much time in the depths of the
internet but the uh the flyer that we had done um there was a lot of given some of the other concerns or projects going on in town concern about the wording of affordable on that top section and we can strike I think we I don't see
why we couldn't strike that Um, okay. And then I need to notice that, but this that doesn't have anything to do with this. Yeah. So, it says, "Ensure that affordable units required do not exceed 10% and because we don't have we're not attempting to do
that." I don't see why. Oh, yeah. It's just Yeah, that was one of the It was a comment. It was a comment from one members. So, that's why that came through on the referral. Yeah, but I know comment I made wasn't on there,
but but it was sort of um I think in terms of advertising I I guess I I've felt like I've noticed public concern when they hear you know 179 unit eight units and they think having section 8 and everything else and it has nothing to do with what's
happening. It gets confusing to the public. Yep. Um so I don't know if anyone else has any ideas. I know we've talked about messaging in the past and such and I'm not a social media person so I wouldn't know if I was going to look I'd look on the town website.
Sure. Sure. That's that's where I go but that's just me. Sure. We can have a joint meeting on the 25th at 5:00 if you like. Okay. It's five days for the charter. Do we need a quorum as a planning board for
Yes. Okay. um 25th at 5 p.m. Would either of you be available? Check. I think I No, I better say 55. We couldn't count Brett towards that because he wouldn't be a member.
The appointment I want to go home look at my calendar. I mean, I think so. What they Yeah, I'm a chauffeur. That's my only issue is I'm sure for kids grandchildren [Music]
whoever but yeah okay weird charter provision but that's how it works. I see. So um once again they we're talking uh 25th is of course the same day as the town meeting. Correct. So this would be before then. So we would meet at 5:00 p. p.m. that night.
5:15. Uh, yeah, that's a discussion before the meeting. Yeah, 5 5:15 5:30 put you on at 5:30 if that's which is easier. What time? Um, I I I just have to go home at what do I have your email? I could always
call Beth. I could call Beth and tell her what time. I can tell you tomorrow. That's fine. And I I mean, she'll get with Sabrina and I'll make sure Sabrina knows. Yeah, I'll I'll talk to Beth tomorrow. I would guess technically you don't you
wouldn't be a member of the planning board, so we don't necessarily need you there, but you would be available at that time. Um, and if not, you get, you know, and you'd have to get subsequently sworn in, I believe, after that. But it sounds like the 22nd might be a
good one for you to go to for experience. Okay. Give a little flavor. So, we we'll have Carol reach out to Beth um to confirm timing and relay that with the select board to figure out what works and then
we'll tentatively say um I would block that time off partly from approximately 5:00 p.m. Thursday the 25th and then pending on Carol's availability and we're not sure about Robert either um but pending our availability I think
and and if it were to be held at that day and time would it be held in this room? Yes. Okay. Thank you. I'm sure we're planning to be here for because I know the select there you select and do your thing before the town meeting. So I want to
Okay. Um All right. What else do we got? Correspondence. Correspondents. Heartley. All those correspondents you have. Would you mind? Okay. Let me uh first of all um
the uh Beth gave me this uh notification for the uh the edits approved by the board to add in the energy committee goals. We we need our sign that needs our signatures on this. So we can talk about that after the meeting. Is that okay? Yeah. Okay. Great.
Okay. Uh I have here now I also have here a thing for board vacancies. One of those vacancies has just been filled. Um, so yeah. Okay. So I I should still should read this, Ben.
Um, until it's filled. I mean, you can. It It's not necessary. It's up to you. Well, you know, I thought one of the positions was just filled right now, but Oh, no. It's not It's not filled until he's appointed by the joint uh meeting of the planning board and the select
board. So, that's one more step. It's okay for me to go ahead and read this. Okay. Uh public notice of vacancy in accordance with section 5-5 of the town charter requiring a 10day posting. The following vacancy is posted. Planning
board has one vacancy for a full member until the annual town election of uh April 27th, 2026. the planning board orders responsible for hearing and approving subdivisions, site plan review, approval not required, ANR
locks, and applications under the scenic roads act. The board also serves as the storm water authority overseas updating the town's master plan and makes decisions and recommendations required by the town's zoning bylaws and the
state zoning act regarding zoning amendments and reszoning petitions. Interested parties are invited to submit a volunteer response form to the office of the town clerk at clerk@townsenmma.gov or the town administrator's office
select board at townsmma ma.gov and uh I also have a a second page here with regard to that. Um I'll go ahead and read this as well. Uh public notice no notice of vacancy towns and zoning board of appeals pursuant to NGL chapter
48 section 12. The zoning board of appeals hereby announces the following oh this is the zoning board of appeals. Okay my apologies of the following openings on the board. one full member term effective from
appointment after 7125 to June 30th 2030 uh chapter 145 zoning section 145-63 zoning board of appeals a establishment there shall be a zoning board of appeals consisting of five members and three
associate members appointed by the board of selectmen as provided in Massachusetts general laws chapter 4A section 12 and the town charter B powers. The zoning board of appeals shall have the following powers. One, to hear and decide appeals in accordance
with section 145-64 appeals. Two, to hear and decide applications for section 145-65, special permits and comprehensive permits upon which the Board of Appeals is empowered to act. Three, to hear and
decide petitions for variances as set forth in section 145- 66 variances. If interested, please submit a volunteer response form to the town clerk or board of selectment in person or online via the town website at volunteer
opportunities towns.gov. The online volunteer response response form can be found at www.townsandm.gov by navigating to the jobs and volunteer page. We welcome adults age 18 and older
from all backgrounds to join this dynamic and exciting board. Training is available. We encourage everyone to apply. So that uh takes care of the board vacancies. Now the legal notices. First one, Town of Towns and
Conservation Commission 272 Main Street, Townsen, Massachusetts 1469. legal notice. Pursuant to the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act and the Towns and Wetlands bylaw, the Towns and Conservation Commission will
hold a public hearing on Wednesday, September 24th, 2025 at approximately 7:30 p.m. The hearing will be held virtually via Zoom meeting at and gives the address for the Zoom meeting. I assume I don't have to read
all that. I keep it as general as you can. Okay. Uh, meeting ID 82406269811. Passcode 031728. I even think Harley, we don't have to read that. Oh, we don't have to read that either.
Okay. Talon access 1317158592. Find your local number at one of those other website addresses and in person at town hall on a notice of intent NOI filed with the conservation commission as TWWB2025-6
by Kenneth Tully. The property is located at zero Adams Road, map 27, parcel 33, lot zero. The proposed project is for the construction of a single family dwelling deck, walkway, driveway, retaining wall, and subsurface
sewage system within a 100 uh foot. Is that it? 100 I can't read that too well. What does that say? 100 100 foot wetland. 100 foot. Okay, thank you. 100 foot wetland buffer parties wish you Thank
you for all your help on this. That's okay. Parties wishing to speak in support of or in opposition to this application may do so at the meeting or in writing prior to the meeting. Copies of this application are available for review at town hall during business
hours. Colby Streeter, agent, towns and conservation commission planning board legal notice. Townson planning board notice of public hearing pursuant to Massachusetts general laws chapter 44.
skip skip those types of things. I don't know if we necessarily need the specific chapter section or okay I just you know that's fine with me for the general see if okay I'll get to the need of it I hope y
uh following citizens petition uh to amend the zone the town's zoning bylaw to see if the town will vote to amend section 145-26 residential districts appended text at the end of section 145-26B14
13. Notwithstanding any provision of this bylaw, to the contrary, an apartment/ multifamily building as defined by section 145-5 is prohibited on the following parcels. Assessor's map 10, parcel 52, Blood Road, and
assessor's map 10, parcel 70, West Elm Street, amends section 145-47, open space multifamily development, OSMD. Insert at the end of section 145-47B. The provisions of this section shall not
apply to assessors map 10 parcel 52 and assessors map 10 parcel 70 or take any action in relation there too. In parties may attend in person at the selectance chambers or participate remotely via zoom.
Zoom address follows. Um, written comments may be submitted to the planning board at Townsson Town Hall, 272 Main Street, Townsen, Mass 01469, or via email to planning townsmma.gov by 4 p.m. on September 22nd, 2025. Townsen
Planning Board, Andrew Shepard, chair, planning board, etc. Okay. Notice of public hearing, town of PPO, uh, zoning board of appeals. An application has been submitted by Massav Rentals LLC seeking
a 40B comprehensive permit pursuant to MGL chapter 40B sections 20-23 to develop a 180 multi-family develop 180 multifamily residences within five buildings on the property
described below having an aggregate area of 14.8 acres. All residents would be for rent with 45 residences designated as affordable to low to moderate income households, tenants not exceeding 80% of the area median income in the mole
middle sex county metropolitan statistical area as required. The subject properties are located at 59 Leighton Street, 59A of LOL Road and 41A of LOL Road in the suburban residential district on the southern side of Leighton Street and L Road within Pepal,
Massachusetts as shown on assessor's map 29 parcels 158-1 and 187-0 and assessors map 31, parcel 18-0. All three parcels are owned by Massav Rentals LLC and further described in a
deed recorded at the Middle Sex South District Registry of Deeds in book 79535 pages 152 SL-155. A public hearing in person only will be held on this matter at the Albert Harris
Center, 37 National Road, Peter, Massachusetts, on Wednesday, September 17, 2025 at 7 p.m. The comprehensive permit application is available for review at the town's office at the PEPO town hall at one Main Street Pepper
Massachusetts or via online permitting system open.gov uh peppermass. opengv.com and search record number COM-25-1. Parties wishing to speak in favor of or
opposition to the proposal may do so in writing prior to the hearing or at the hearing in person and or represented by an agent or attorney. Written comments should be submitted on or before September 10th, 2025. Interested parties are encouraged to attend. John
McCaffrey, chairman, zoning board of appeals. That's like how many acres that was? Excuse me. It's 14 on street. It's behind the BFW. Oh, okay. And they're not MBTA.
This is not 40. Wow. And they're going to need rentals. Well, I think the presumption is their rentals because mass app rentals. I don't know. Yeah. Well, again, I was presuming by the name. Interesting.
Okay. Town of Rotten notice of decision special permit PB-2025-16. Site P site plan review PB 2025-15. No. Office of the planning board. Notice is hereby given that the Bronten planning board voted to grant a special
permit and site plan approval for the construction of a satellite emergency facility SEF pursuant to the code of the town of Rotten Chapter 218 zoning 2 applicant applicant UMass Memorial
Healthc Care Inc. 281 Lincoln Street Worcester, Massachusetts 01605. Landowners 492MG LLC 6 Liberty Way, Westford, Massachusetts 01886.
Quality Green Homes LLC 142 Littleton Road, Westford, Massachusetts 01886. Property location 490 Main Street. Assessor's map and parcel map 216. Parcels 96. Partial 9899.
deeds recorded at South Middle Sex Registry of Deeds in book 883900, page 267, book 78870, page 143. The decision of said board is on file in the office of the town clerk, town hall,
rotten, Massachusetts, certified this day, 29th day of August, 2025. Um, I see the signature of the town clerk, but I can't make out the person's name. My apologies. I think it's Francis something. Okay. My apologies. I hope
that makes it legal. I don't think they'll take it personally. Okay. Town of Shirley Planning Board legal advertisement. The Town of Shirley's Planning Board will conduct a public hearing at 6 PM Wednesday, October 15, 2025 at the Town Office Building, 7
Kyway, Shirley, Massachusetts. Application submitted by Jeffrey Dusty 206R Great Road, Shirley, Massachusetts. Joint public hearing for a site plan review per section 7 of the protective zoning bylaws and special permit section
3.6.1c3 of the protective zoning bylaws for the construction of a single family house. The parcel is located on Great Road, parcel ID 72A1.4 4 in the North Shirley Village business
district. A copy of this application can be obtained from the town clerk. Please check the town of Shirley website for full agenda, possible virtual information, updates, andor changes, or call the office, chair of planning
board, Sarah Linding. Go on to the next one. Town of Shirley Zoning Board of Appeals legal advertisement. The Town of Shirley Zoning Board of Appeals will conduct a public hearing at 7 PM on Monday,
October 6th, 2025 at the town office building 7 Kyway, Shirley, Massachusetts. Application submitted by Prescott Investment Trust, 28 Mulpus Road, Shirley, Massachusetts. Public hearing for section 2.4.1D 4.1D
of the protective zoning bylaws for reconstruction of a structure that was destroyed by fire and requires a special permit according to section 9.2.3 2.3 parcel is located at 28 Muslim,
Massachusetts. Parcel IDs 94A394A3.1 and I'll say 94A2 in the rural residential district. Copy of this application can be obtained from the town clerk uh Kevin Kelly, chair of
the zoning board of appeals. Notice of public hearing, town of Prol zoning board of appeals in accordance with provisions of NGL chapter 4A, section section 10 and section section 3556 and 9222 of the town of Peral
zoning bylaw. The zoning board of appeals will hold a remote public hearing regarding an application submitted by Mark Demer requesting a variance. The applica the applicant proposes to construct a 10 foot by 15 foot
150 square foot mudroom and 32 feet t by 30 feet 960 square foot garage. Both of which will be attached to the single existing single family dwelling requiring a variance of 12 feet from the
sideyard set back where 15 ft is required. The subject property is located in the suburban residential district at one Parkwood Drive, Peril, Massachusetts, as shown on tax 30 parcel 41-0 and by a deed recorded at the Middle Sex
South Registry of Deeds, book 47913, page 557. The public hearing will be held remotely on October 1st, 2025 at 7:20 p.m. Please see the calendar on the town of Petrol homepage hosted 48 hours prior to the
public hearing for information on how to access the meeting. To access the access the application and any submitted documents, please go to our off to our online permitting system opengv
peppermass.openggov.com and search record number zba-25-7. All interested parties are invited to remotely attend the public hearing and provide oral and or written comments to the zoning board of appeals. Written comments should be submitted on or
before September 22nd, 2025. Sean McAffrey, chair zoning board of appeals to be published in the show of Valley Voice on September 12th, 2025 and September 19th, 2025. And finally, notice of public hearing, town of
petrol, zoning board of appeals in accordance with provisions of MGL chapter 48 section section 6, 7, 8, 11, and 15 and section section 9220 and 9 223 of the town of zoning bylaw. The
zoning board of appeals will hold a remote public hearing regarding an application to be submitted by William Granfield requesting an administrative appeal regarding the improper issuance of a b of a building permit and failure
to enforce a zoning bylaws in connection with the construction of a carport structure at 119 l road pepper Massachusetts and refus and the refusal of the zoning enforcement officer to act upon a valid written enfor Enforcement
request dated April 4, 2025. The applicant's property is located in the suburban residential district at four highest drive, Peril, Massachusetts in the ownership of Brian Spencer as shown on tax 17, parcel 95-0
and by a deed recorded at the Middle Sex South Registry of Deeds, book 73639, page 553. The property in which the administrative appeal pertains to is located at 119 Mo Road and is owned by
Lisa and Michael K. Cardus. The public hearing will be held remotely on October 1st, 2025 at 7 p.m. Please see the calendar on the town of PEL homepage posted 48 hours prior to the public
hearing for information on how to access the meeting. To access the application and any submitted documents, please go to our online permitting system openv peppermass.orgal.openggov.com and search record number ZBA-25-9.
All interested parties are invited to remotely attend the public hearing and provide oral and or written comments to the zoning board of appeals. Written comments should be submitted on before September 22nd, 2025. John McCaffrey, chair, zoning board of
appeals to be published in the show valley voice on September 12th, 2025 and September 19th, 2025. And I believe that's that's it. Thank you very much, Hartley. I think as always, you got a great announcer voice. Thank you. You may not know what I'm
saying, but I said that's all right. Um, does does anybody else um on the board have any other comments or concerns or anything to that nature? No. No. Gloria, as our select board representative, you have any nothing.
Okay. I'd love to entertain a motion to adjurnn. Make a motion to adjourn at 8:22 p.m. 8:22. I second the motion. All in favor? I. And the meeting is