Good afternoon everyone. My name is Laura Shippen and I'm calling the meeting of the select board on May 6, 2025 at 2:12 p.m.
Present. We also have join hi labor council. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining us. Would you all join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'd like to thank all of our veterans and all of those serving um currently here and abroad as well as all
of our emergency response people here in town. We certainly appreciate all that you do for us and your families as well. They sacrifice. in New York. Um, the meeting is being
recorded and will be uploaded to YouTube, but is there anyone else online or here that's recording the meeting? Uh, chairman 1.4 chairman's additions or deletions. Um, I do have
a complaint yesterday about smoking on the premises here. So, I did pull the policy and um, we'll discuss that under a work session if you'd like to or we'll do it at another meeting, but it has happened.
Um, Harrison would like 4.3 taken out. Yes, he told. Okay. Um, I was just going to finish preliminaries and do that. In fact, I was going to do it now. Additional declarations and it it pleases the
board. We've been asked to move 4.3 to the first item that we address. Is everybody okay with that? We're ready. Thank you. Um, and so I'll do it now. We'll be doing this.
This is the people are from the uh treasurer. I don't know um have an introduction for the topic. Um just to pass around who wants it first. Um well we have to make a motion and discuss
correct before we Yes. Okay. Um 4.3. Is there a motion? Uh yes. I move to Are we debating signing? What do we do?
Um, I would make the motion sign and then discuss. I move to sign the documents for renewal of short-term ban art per article 11 at 5223 town meeting for 142,500 award to
uni bank at 4.35% interest, no premium or reoffer. Is there a second? There's a second. Okay. Discussion. Um, yeah. I'd like to know what these um this fund covers. I'm sure it's probably capital requests from the annual town meeting.
Is it itemized on there? Um Sabrina, do you want to have Melissa? Um to explain, but I mean I'm looking at the the documents right now and it was from um the annual town
meeting two years ago. Yeah. And it was um for fire emass it was an ambulance. Um it was a fire truck and then in highway there was a pickup truck of a plow, a covert camera and a 10-ft
wing plow. So that was in highway and then in facilities there was a a pickup truck as well as storage cabinets. Do we know which ones were for borrowing? Because certainly all of that isn't 142,500.
Um so the fire EMS was borrowing through ambulance receipts. The remainder was just borrowing. So this is um basically a shortterm um loan. Um I think you only pay the um interest the interest on it
for a certain number of periods. Correct. So this is the second year of the band of the uh the short-term loan. And I think typically in the third year that's when you um you pay for interest and the principal. I don't know. I'm looking at this and I'm thinking it's
it's the whole nine yards if you Okay. It's the whole nine yards. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Any other comment? My only comment would be I wish this was
the interest rates that the buyers could use to purchase the homes. 4.35. Yeah, that's a pretty amazing. It would be amazing right now. Certainly got rid of a lot of first home buyers. Okay. So, um you have the
document. Can we vote? Sure. There's no further discussion. Uh, ready to vote. Uh, yes. Veronica. Yes. Chess and more shifting. Yes. Paper book is back. I just handed your signature to
who it to you. Oh, here we are. This is it. So, Harrison will just need to witness the signature and he'll sign and stamp it. I'm watching. It's good to go. It doesn't matter. No, whichever line
you like. I don't think it's a big deal. It doesn't have to be very much and thank you for accommodating our order. No problem. 1.5 Review and approve the meeting minutes for March 18th and March 19th.
I make a motion to review approve rates for 318 2025 and 319 2025. Second. Second. Any discussion? Um I have a couple changes which I will get to um Sabrina. They're mostly you know remove
athe or change an ed to an ing. They're that sort of things. They aren't content changes. Okay. Mine were the same. Alex has spoken. Okay. All right. Then we're ready to vote. Veronica ke
and thank you. We have no appointments under two three uh 3.1 appoint town clerk Harrison as records access officer Rao until town election of April 27
2026. Is there a motion? I move to appoint Harrison pronunciation sorry as records ask access officer aro until annual town election on April 27th 2026. Is there a second?
I want to amend the motion. So should I second this and then make my amendment? No, you amend it now and then it it can be seconded. All right. Um, I move to appoint Harrison May as records access officer until July 1st, 2025.
And my reason for that is I would like to see with the um records grant that we got for 130,000 I would like to discuss having someone I don't know who maybe the assistant town clerk um to be the
records access officer as well as to work on that grant with the departments because I don't know how that's going to be administered. So, I asked I think I sent that Did I send it to you, Sabrina?
An idea for uh and to you, Nelson? I'm pretty sure I sent that idea. Was this to July? Did you say July 1st, 2025? Five. Yes. Okay. Through the end of the fiscal year. Okay. and to give us time to decide how we how that grant is, you
know, to understand how that grant is going to be administered. And it would make sense that the person working on that grant would also be the records access officer because they would know where the records are. Um, we have a
serious records issue in this town hall and that's my reason for doing that. So we could revisit it. If in fact we aren't anywhere with that, then we make another appointment. Okay. So that's the amendment. Is the town clerk usually
also the records access officer? Typically. Yes. Typically. Yes. But not always. And and as Veronica said, we have a problem with records. So the grant is would be very
helpful to find out really Uh yeah, we did receive it. And when you say problem with records, we just have a lot of paper is what it comes down to. Well, you also can't find them. Um I suppose, but it's really the the the
volume of paper that we have in every nook and cranny that we really need to dig digitize. Bound to have only one records access officer or you can have more than one I believe. Is that true, Jane? Do you know? Typically each department would have its own records
records person. I I just think we need to talk about how records are managed in town hall. And this goes too with the warrant article for public records. Oh, absolutely. I'm not involved in I'm just wondering if if removing that
from this individual versus adding an additional records access officer. Oh, I see what you said. You know what I mean? Is there a way to do I don't Did you mean removal? I mean it was just a month of No, I wasn't removing. I was just that pointing until July 1st and then we
can have a discussion about how records are being handled, kept, organized, found. What happens when a public records requests come in? Um how is that handled? Do all the people on all the
boards have to on a weekly basis turn on turn in all their private emails from that were done with town. Um people uh because there's a public records request out there for everything on my private
devices phone etc etc from the past five years uh with all the people in town. No specifics about anything just yeah give me everything. So, are we going to every week have all boards and committees turn
in their stuff or how are we going to be handling these things? I think there needs to be a discussion um and these requests come from vegetables. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Trust me, I understand. I I already get the notice emails. I completely understand where
you're coming from. I'm just wondering putting what would we change on July 1st with regards to the um decide whether or not we're going to continue with this structure or a
different structure. Thank you. Sorry. I'm I'm good with with giving it the um you know appointing him till then and when we have more information we'll make another decision but we can have conversation about it. I
just discussion the my only concern is that this comes off as a um undermining of the position at all. Um making sure that's not if they're supposed to be recognized with every department and I think that should be made clearer as well.
Yeah. It's been [Music] um interesting the last five months. Oh, see how many um have come in with
like I might have had one in the 40 years for I don't know if it was housing authority or assessors, you know, and then all of a sudden could um is it possible because the town clerk is in charge of those records to have them involved in those discussions?
Absolutely. Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh yeah, just I also because I think this is also somehat in my point of view. It's also um our boards and committees aren't given much information. So this is kind of I think related to that to some
degree. I think there's lots of policies just that I've initially like I can't access any I can't get to any of the policies online either. All of a sudden yeah I used to be able to all of a sudden a second link won't open. Yeah. So, but so I think I think this is a a
conversation and I just want to make sure that all parties that participate are involved in that because I think that the town clerk is the first point person for the elected boards and I know in like there's a lot of policies the two that I've looked at that apply to
elected and appointed boards in addition to town employees and so and as a elected board member for nine years I never received those policies and I didn't know they applied to those boards. Right. Right. So, I mean there's a lot. Yeah. And and there's a lot of
training and stuff that doesn't isn't done on that. So, as long as I'm fine with that as long as the intention is to get everybody involved in the conversation. I think so far what I've seen that we've done is an idea discussion and then if a
policy change was going to be made, it was first reading, second reading and we even went to a third one time. And all of that's done in public meetings. That's right. And certainly anybody can chime in. Well, not anybody can chime in. I shouldn't say that that way, but
you know, we do address other comments. No, no, no. I'm not saying, you know, I'm just saying I just want to make sure everybody that is part of this is involved in the discussions of how to do it best. That's all. Yeah, that's I'm good with that. I want to make sure that everybody gets involved that knows they're supposed to be involved. Yeah.
Exactly. Okay. and and in cases they don't know that they're supposed to be involved precisely. And I don't want anybody to say, well, we already have a records access officer, so why do we need to have that discussion? That's another that's the
counter to what you're saying. So anyway, um but the state recognizes different ones, not just the town clerk, not just the whoever you designate. Yeah. There's multiple often in town
officers for example public officer police department I like it because you can you can tether it to making sure that they have proper training or whatever you got policy internally they can tether it to the town clerk is typically the public
records officer for the whole town because they're the keeper of the records. So having the assistant also be a public records officer, that's there's no problem with that. I think that um well,
I'm the one that I'm the one that's been working on the public records policy. I think that we have to have people trained in how you respond to public records. We've had public records requests not go unanswered because no one realized that the 10 days had
passed. I I just want to make sure that we're adding to the other people too instead of taking away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's my I just want to make sure that's the case. So that was my amendment. So now we need a second. Right. My amendment was to change the
date to 7012025 and that will also force the conversation before then. So second you second. Okay. So basically a friendly amendment to your motion which is fine. Any further discussion?
Can we just read the whole motion? Um would you repeat the motion with your amendment? Um the amendment was I'm the motion is I move to appoint Harrison Mayot as records access officer
until July 1st 2025 second. Okay. Any further discussion on roll call. Okay. 4.1 affordable allocation reallocation of
affordable housing funds for policy. Um, do you want me to talk? Yeah, sure. Um, there is there is a policy on this. I I Sabrina couldn't find where anyone else had ever filled out this form even
though we've allocated the town has allocated and reallocated um funds all over. It's normally just been done in a meeting and the change has taken place on the charge the 01
through ARPA01 through ARPA 27. So I started to fill that this policy out. Does everybody have it there? and I I read through it and it really didn't apply. This is to for the reallocation of the funds from um ARPA06
affordable housing trust into um the the um the salaries. Yes. 100,000. So, so um you know the reporting has been done um with capital strategic
solutions on April 30th and the 100,000 is being reallocated towards just I think the term is general salaries which makes it as open-ended as and it gives us the flexibility and that's certainly
allowable. So that has been reported to the the Treasury Department. So that's all said. This vote is really just internal just to sort of um clean things up and um you know uh make sure that you know the money is being allocated
towards you know uh wages and salaries. Then do you want me to make a motion? I was just going to say is there a motion? Um, I I move to reallocate the $100,000 from the ARPA line for ARPA06 affordable housing trust to salaries and wages.
Second. Any further discussion? So, um, what is needed now to sign something? Uh, nope. It's just a vote just to get it on the record. Like I said, the reporting is done with the treasures the treasury
department already. So uh you know everything is sort of buttoned up at this point with you know the the housing trust. So that's and what you're saying is that's in general salaries. Yes. It will
be put towards general salaries and gives us the flexibility to put it towards um basically anything you know we we that's allowable. That's wages and salaries. Okay.
Second. I made the motion. There was a second and we discussed roll call. Yes. Yes. And ship and yes to
terminate. Is there a motion? here under 4.2 on the max. Yes, it's 4.2. Okay. Um, questions from the board motion. Go ahead.
No, go ahead. Um, I don't have a lot of background information on this particular thing, but with this contract, having read through it today, I see a lot of issues with the website
right now. Yeah. Because I mean, as a select board member, I can't I have to ask Sabrina for any policy document I want because I can't access it. And I know the public is very frustrated right now and a lot of that We are too. Yeah, a lot of those come through open I mean
public records requests because those documents aren't accessible. And I'm just wondering with regards to this contract, is there any I mean I guess I I would ask you guys and Nelson in particular how that
will work. Is there any way to is it going to be finished? Is it not? Is it not? I mean, if if it's all we've paid for and that I can understand that also, then we just need to have their next person is in charge of fixing it. I just want to make sure that like right now I
can't do we have for the condition of the trying to say how can we get just looking at the contract I see I see some areas where it says the work has to be completed and I'm wondering if there's
any way to you know for that it might not be with this contract if we're if we're resending this contract that's understandable and I'll take the guidance on that I just want to know what our plan is to get the website fixed. So, you know, if it is it just
the next employee, that's fine. I just wanted to make sure. Yes. So, us terminating the the contract was requested by the vendor because um you know of um conflict of interest. Totally understandable. Um so, between now and
then, what we can do is we still have they intend to terminate it on May 31st. So between now and then, we still owe them some money. So they owe us some work hours. So whatever um issues we've
had been able to identify, let's put them in a in a ticket. Okay. Send it to the vendor and have them uh complete as much as possible. That's the edge fund to make sure that was something that we could do to see what work we can still get done correct for that. and and and
on June 1st, uh whether it's a vendor or staff member that handles the responsibilities afterwards, we can discuss what that ends up looking like. Great. Um so, but I I certainly um want to make sure we get our money's worth
because we are paying for it through the end of May. Um so, and also I think just for the public's sake because I know I've dealt a lot of frustration with the website. So, I just wanted to bring that up. So, you know, if whatever um links that might be broken, send them to
Sabrina. We'll we'll open a help desk ticket right away just to get some. Okay. So, we're working on it. There's there's a lot of um because I also have tried that and very frustrated. I have been right along for all year actually
on it. Um but now it seems that stuff I was able to open before on the website I can't open now. And when I went to a certain policy yesterday and it sent me to another link, it said error 404. So I
was trying to access policies yesterday. I can't get the and I used to be able to because I have used this website for the past four or five months. I mean has been changing things on the website over the weekend it changed or within the
last week I would say the ability to get to a secondary link so you can get to the first one. that's not a problem. But if you have to go to another, you know, if it sends you to another page, you cannot get that. It either just comes up
blank or you get the file not found 404 error. I just want that the public also know that we are aware of this and it had nothing to do with this board not giving access to we're as frustrated as everybody else was in town. So we have a
help desk ticket um already in in place. So, you know, we'll have the vendor. What guarantee do we have that he's going to fix the problems that the vendor is going to fix the problems? Um, I think if you isolate the the the issues, you know, they will I I think
they have the capability and will fulfill it. My issue month with that is they are reactive only. There there is no proactive action. In other words, they're not looking at the website saying this isn't working. I need to fix
this. What they're doing is if we tell them something, they will fix it. So hopefully that when we I know there's a job description post attached to this that will be resolved when there's I I Yeah. And that job description these are actually I pulled them out and sent them
to Sabrina. They were the ones that were posted when we did this job originally. And so the wording has to be changed in here because our website was the Drupal website when we were um Civic Plus. it is no longer that. So, um the underlying
language used to develop the website has changed. So, there are things in here that we need to talk about and see if we want them to be different. Um the other thing, so that is for and this would be someone who is an employee of the town, not a contractor.
um and who would work with the departments to make sure that the sites are all up and to do the do pages for those boards and committees that don't have a staff
member assigned to them. Um so um the other thing about this is I would like this is just in general. I would like um a discussion with revise to find out if we can get something. This is not the
website that was shown to us in October of 2022. And I don't know why when the transition happened, it didn't happen differently. Maybe it was No, it wasn't 23. I wasn't a select board member. I
was still a select board member. So it had to have been 2022. And then we had to go to town meeting to get the money to have the website done. Things did not get transitioned. The documents that were
available even last March are no longer found on this website and things are back several versions in some cases. All of that needs to and that's under this contract. This is this contract, right?
That we were supposed to get certain it but didn't get them. Well, this with Revise, which is um two different vendors. Revise is so Civic Plus was the website platform
um so to speak. Now we have Revise. We moved away from Civic Plus. They provide an outline, so to speak, for your website. And that's where we were. And there's different levels of service that you can buy as far as do you have one of
those websites where it all scrolls scrolls up, you know, those or is it one where you go page to page to page to page? We thought I thought we were getting one that this beautiful scrolling thing that it's on that there's a demonstration and everything.
We didn't get that. We got Civic Plus with a different platform and not as good. That's what we got. And then what this contract does is maintain the pages, fill in the content that we have.
And I I don't know what happened when it transitioned last June. I don't know what happened. I don't know if all departments were expected. And probably you don't know. None of us Yeah. sitting here really? No. Were all departments
expected to look at their page and say, "This is what I want. This is what I want there." Um, and was someone from each department trained as to how to um make changes, make changes, how to update the page. Yeah. Um, I don't know
if that happened. Yeah. this during the the transition when Eric was about to leave, Ross came on board. So, I think Ross had a lot on his plate and you know, this might have been one of the things that slipped through the cracks
and um and we need to fix it. Yeah. So I think we should talk to revise and see what platform we have. how we how much does it cost to get some civic plus had people that you could call and you could
say hey how do I make this happen and they would work with you there was a customer service person I don't know if we have that with another just Sabrina has yeah chair there were there were training links provided when we first
switched over some of the training links expired so we had new training links issued for that. Um there are certain people that have access to the website to edit their pages. Um the expectation was that every department that has access edits
their own pages um going forward but um I believe not everyone did the training links that was re issued and we send out to departments
to training things. See on civic plus those training were always there. There was one initial training with a was a big video that was recorded. Um a lot of people participated not all of them and then
there was another training session training sessions that were provided and then after that were issued for the training. So there was training there but um so I mean I'm fine with saying the
contract. I just want to make sure we don't lose sight of that we need to keep discussing this. Oh, absolutely. I I also have a concern that we're going to have a gap where the website won't be able to be revised because we don't have people who are able to revise it and we
won't have a vendor um you know whose responsibility that's to where it is in just this last week. But that's a question. Um I I can look into it. Um, I'm not sure what's sort of
transpired in the last week or so where so many links that used to work no longer work. Um, but I'm hoping maybe that maybe the the the ticket that we put in may shed some light on that. But I will make sure that um Metro gov um
does as much as they they can within the aotment that that we pay them for to you know button up as much as they can and the transition all the credentials. So they actually weren't um responsible for the
site itself. They just did updates to it or trying to clarify. Yeah, they would be the ones to uh update documents. uh revise certain pages, but they didn't build the site. No, that was revise. Y
but the piece that I think was missing is nobody went in after revise said okay here's the site that there was a disconnect between saying here's the site and people checking to see if the site was was what they wanted it to be.
Yeah. I I don't think and I think that could be transitions of this entire floor. So that could be part of the problem too. Um we'll make sure we'll make sure things are approved.
Um so the contract then we can still work on the other parts of it. Yeah. Yeah. We're just talking about the contract right now. 4.2. Yeah. Do you want a motion to resend the contract? It's
to terminate the contract. Terminate effective 531. I move to terminate Metro Gov's contract with a proposed effective termination date of May 31st,
2025. Second. Um, and so we're terminating the contract or they are they request that we officially make a vote to terminate it. This is per their request that we're
terminating. Should the motion say that? I can revert it. Um, I make it I move to um I move per metro gov's request to terminate the council websites for contract
effective May 31st, 2025 and seven. Okay. Any further discussion? Um, I just want to discuss after this is over and before we get out of here whether or not we are going to post for a web master and because we
need someone on June 1st to step in if we're terminating on May 31st. So, I would like a plan for that. These these um you know the job description and the posting needs to be updated and put out
there. So I would like to make after we vote this I would like to make a second motion to have that done first. Okay. If no further discussion on the current motion I'll take a vote. Veronica Kelly. Yes.
And yes. I would like to make a motion to um for the uh web master posting to be updated. um the the web master job description to be updated to fit the
current um state of the town website and accordingly to post for the job of web master and I don't know like it it's grade C step one I don't know what the hourly rate is
tell you that right now two seconds is this in our current budget it's That's 650. It's one of the lines on the BOS section. Just wanted to make sure that 6,500 650. Yeah, it's uh part time. Um
it's 5 to 7 hours a week for a maximum of this says 6,000 annually. It what we put in the budget is 6,500. Um and what's the what is the FY? We should be looking at FY26. So we'd
have to up that by 4%. Correct. Um, we have the 26 numbers. Actually, just go by. Yeah, you could just two up. Yeah, it's actually just 2%. So that I thought it
was 2% um cost of living. Okay, so just go up one, I guess. So this is grade C. Step one. 1993. An hour. 1993. Um, let me get this to Sabrina. I I did
some scribbles and then you can look and see if it's anything. Okay. We'll have Cali posted. So this would be for Cali. And so we would post this uh internally, right? I would post it internally first and if no one steps up then then we
could go and post that externally. So do I need a motion for that? Did I make a motion? You did make a motion. Did anybody second it? Second it. I thought we were discussing it actually. Yeah. Okay. I just don't remember. Are
we done with discussing? I am. Okay. Vote Veronica. Yes. Yes. Um Okay. 4.4 discuss review approve potential
revis 26 on the post budget. Nelson. Um, I think there was maybe it's some potential that we would revise the omnibus budget given with
uh some changes being um considered um not certainly not by the select board. Um, so I I think probably uh the best course is to
stick with the budget that we voted on last week and you know present that to the voters. I know there's a different version floating around that might be um presented to the
voters at town meeting tonight, but you know that's certainly not the sweatboard's version. So I think it's probably best to to stick with um your version of the budget and and um see
what happens tonight. I we developed a budget that I have full confidence in. It may not be perfect, but it's what we developed. It's what Nelson worked with the department heads. We don't have the we cannot be involved
in the daytoday of the um running of town hall. Nelson is the person that all the department heads report to. I find it curious that the fincom can work with the department heads when we the board of selectman
cannot. So that's an interesting um maneuver. I I also find it interesting that a private citizen can become an ad hoc member of the fincom and provide um
budgets to the finance committee for consideration. I I guess I'm wondering why Lori and I couldn't get a private citizen to come in and work with us as a third member of the select board. I thought we had joint meetings in
February through and before March 1st joint meetings twice a week. No minimum and met with department heads. So how people are saying that we didn't have joint meetings or met with department
heads and Nelson you had since talked to department heads in reference to this budget that the SL board voted on. Yes, as much as I can as as I you know mentioned quite a few times um you know
with the collective bargaining um units that we have in place you know um what I can or can't talk about is kind of limited in that regard and that's you know through the uh advice of you know town labor council you know so is this your write up of our process article one
you know so as much as uh I want to be uh as transparent as possible there's certain details We're just limited of what we can openly discuss with employees and you know certainly after town meeting we will
then um engage with the unions to come to the bargaining table to discuss the proposed changes. Um but that's certainly not going to happen till after town meeting is over the process. Um but Veronica did do you want to read this
report into the record? I would like to read it um for article one at town meeting tonight as as the report of the select board on the budget process. So, what I would like is for each of you to
take a look at it and um I'd like a vote as to whether or not we go forward with it as the report of the um committee for just as all committees make reports
should they want to um and do it as article one of the annual town meeting. I prefer not to read it into the record now in case there are changes to be made. Okay. And that it be brought forward um at
the because we have labor council here. Can I just ask question? Is that permitted and you can say the answer? So the way when cuts were made to union positions, the way this was portrayed in the budget
was with a line item for that grouping in your work with other towns. Is that typically what happens when there's you don't have to say if you want to, but do you want me to show you example? Sure. Sure. So, you know, where where the select board decided within
this grouping that and these are there's some union staff that there would be a change instead of putting out what the exact change would be, they grouped these staff together and put a total. Okay. Until the budget um
determined there wasn't a starting point to make proposals to the unions. So if the town is going to propose eliminating positions or reducing hours, it would it would propose to the impacted unions
what those changes would be. So obviously until we know the budget amount um that would be step one because if the if they um decide to cut somewhere else and not what you're what you're thinking of and the bottom lines
ends up being the same but just for the different um if the town meeting tonight they decide to come. So that's um as soon as we have those numbers then um we'll be able to
schedule meetings with the unions and make the proposals and negotiate the changes. Can I ask a question follow on? Sure. So um what I heard this morning is that they're giving blocks of dollars to
each category and saying this much needs to be cut. What happens if the decision of the department head is to reduce staff hours? Then how does that work? I
mean, are they required to cut it from other than staff dollars if the um employees in that department are um union employees? Again, I think it goes back to how what the budget is and
how the cuts are made. I'm sorry. Wasn't either. And with the how the cuts were made if um I'm not I'm not quite sure how the
how the votes will occur. So it will it be um in the past I believe they voted by um functional segments by functional segments. Yes. Correct. So if that's um if that's the same then the cuts would be made within those functional
segments. Um yes understand that part. But if they if the voters decide to take all into their
own hands at the meeting tonight and eliminate or reduce certain line items versus the segment which they've been doing segments since Kryler was here 19 or so
and um I don't recall in the years any line items being removed certainly from any of the budget. So, um I don't know what they're thinking of how they're going to do this. I think we're going to have to see what
happens. Um I I just wanted to point out there was something that I um realized. Um, if you recall, I was going to put some of the ARPA money into um the snow and ice um wages.
Um, looking further into it, um, in order for us to be able to deficit spend, the what the state has said is that you the it can't be below it can't be below it. So at So what we would need to do um at town meeting is um to
actually amend that section of of the snow and ice. I would just put I would restore the snow and ice um expenses and you know reduce it from the remainder from highway wages to come
up with a roughly $100,000 because we can't reduce it from snow and ice because that would mean we couldn't deficit spend next year which is not that would be a non-starter. Right. Okay. So, so that would be enough to take it
from salaries. There is overexpended and then there's no paving because of it. Am I getting this wrong? Okay. I guess the the dollars in highway
is high enough to reduce the amount of the ARA. I don't know that there's any other full budget. Yes. I don't know that there's unless we go to public safety. I don't think there's that many um staff hours
in grouping, right? So, you know, that would that would certainly mean uh 26 is fine, but then when you start developing the 27 budget, the highway um budget now looks artificially low. And
then when you have to bring it back up to regular levels, it looks like it's a big increase. But everyone knows this. These one-time funds creates that um that you know you know um and we have been able
to recover from all the other cuts that were all the other staff um hours that were covered by ARPA previously. So previous so it's just during budget season everyone just needs
to remember what happened the year before and why it artificially looks higher um in the upcoming year it's because the ARPA it just gives you a false sense of everything is fine but then the following year you know things
significantly increase so that's what happens when you use one-time funds to um cover general fund expenses so it's just the nature of the games just simple math. So, so that was the only change um
I can think of that we would need to amend that the amend the uh the select board's um um approved budget. It doesn't change the total of that functional segment. It just moves again, you know,
the the ARPA from Stone Ice Wages back into uh the highway. So, give me those reports and let me cross out words. Okay. Are we looking to vote on this?
We need to um Yes. Do we have to have a motion made to amend that at the meeting tonight? We would otherwise that motion. Yeah. Just remove that. And this is something that we used
to do on planning board when we had um articles on the annual town meeting. You gave a report the hearing was it was posted in there. We had so many meetings. It was continued so many times. She just mentioned I noticed the chief is here. Do you want
to talk about his budget at all or he's here to observe? If there was any questions or anything came to mind, I'm just going to try to see where everything appreciate. It's the motion. We'll talk about a couple minutes. I already have some. Is
this just the special? Yeah. Okay. Even though what we have decided and to present is less than the.5% increase over last year. There's a lot given up
for being that low. Um, and I think what people uh kind of maybe don't quite understand is um for many years now we kind of have put band-aids on the situation. you
know, increasing ambulance receipts, using free cash stabilization to um cover that. It's back to my point earlier. Those are one-time funds. You know, you you you you fix you you you fix the issue um
this year, but next year the problem is still there, and what do you do then? Eventually, you sort of run out of band-aids to to fix the situation. So, um, and you know, this is kind of where it's gotten us, where we simply don't
have enough revenue to cover all of our expenses and we've run out of a bandaid, so to speak to uh to fix the budget. So, you know, we people say
that's a structural defect in municipal budgets. Um, prop two and a half certainly doesn't help us. Um, so when you add everything up, it really it's a snowball effect and year over
year, you know, just it stays with you until it comes to a point where you simply need an override or you need to make cuts to make it work. Um, in your expertise, Nelson, do you think any of this could have if we had
had a better continuity over the past five years? Because I know I is there like the fiveyear plan, the proposed plan, our fiscal outlook seems to be like do you think any of this could be
avoided if we had had more continuity? Um, maybe a little bit, but I think the override problems that we are having, it's not unique. It's not unique. No, I know every other town I talked to and stuff I talked to, they're also having this problem. I'm just Yeah. So, I'm
trying I'm trying to let people understand that we're not alone in this situation and it's not a lack of um the details. We could all argue how we would do things differently and we can learn and go into next year. But
this situation isn't just counts and right. Yeah. And I I think even though we have lack continuity over the last several years, I think even if we had stability, you know, within town government, um I think you would still
run the same issue. Um um it's like I said it really is a structural issue when the school budget this year is um North Milsex is 6 and a half%. You know above last year and last
year was pretty significant as well. You know those effects are compound on each other and you know even at six and a half for one year like how do you how do you afford that? you know, it's very difficult. That 4% doesn't seem like a
lot, but it's over $600,000 in addition, you know, to 2 and a half% that that's all we can afford. So, again, we're we've been relying on um you know, onetime funds to sort of
um build a balanced budget, but that's not sustainable. And you know, most places including the state would tell you that's, you know, not the way to do it. But we all know, you know, part of the issue is, you know, the school funding formula. And
we've this year certainly have done um quite a bit to make our voices heard, advocate, you know, for the school district. um spoken to our local legislative, you
know, certainly um Representative Scarsdale, Senator Cronin, um you know, writing letters to the governor, participating in budget meetings, um you know, in Beacon Hill. So, I think we've done quite a bit. Um there's multiple
advocacy groups out there as well. You know, project 211 plus hopefully this will not help us for FY26. The um the fund the increased funds in the cherry sheets for regional schools. I don't expect that to trickle
down to the town. Um the and the towns uh our cherry sheet was level funded in the unrestricted general government um from level funded to FY25. So the increase that was originally in there
with the um governor's budget was removed and so we will not be getting an increase in the on the other. Uh so in any event um that that's detrimental to us yet we
still have to um well we have we have to fund the schools and of course we have to fund the schools and at this point Ashb and Pepper have both funded it and um so we will also fund it and the schools aren't required to trickle down
any of the additional funds that they get to the towns. the towns have accepted the budget and that is that. Um I so um the most we can hope for is that our school committee representatives put as much effort
into advocating for the towns with the school budget for FY27. Um hopefully they can do two 2.5%. Because it's unrealistic what's been happening the last few years um coming in with their budgets. It's we don't it's not sustainable. It's not
sustainable. And so I think that in this budget that we're putting forward tonight where we've looked for the bulk we've all of the department Nelson talked to all the departments but where we looked for the bulk was really in the town hall cemetery and park recreation
area. Um because that is the and and the I feel the adjustments that were made as far as staff hours goes just minimal. the
um next year if we see another 1 million plus increase original ask from the schools, the places that you go to for the cuts are much more significant as far as quality of
life in towns and goes. Um and and the year after that even more so. And then so I am not an advocate of the chop off the head. Um you know just take the thing cut straight across. I I feel like this
budget does a more um uh for lack of a better word refined look at where cuts can be made. Um so it doesn't do an acrosstheboard cut.
Um and we we have difficulty with that anyway uh with personal services contracts with all sorts of other things. So So I do have the motions
drafted. Um town council has reviewed it given their feedback. Um, so what we would need to do here is just figure out who reads the motions. Before we go on to that, can I ask about this? Can we
have a vote on whether or not to put in a report for the um for article one? I'll make the motion. I'm going to abstain just because it's the budget process and that wasn't involved. No offense to anybody here. It's just just
the whole process of the time between election and but um but I'll make a motion. What is it? It's not on there. Yeah. Um I'll make a motion that the report the select board for the 2026 budget process be submitted
as the um report an article one. A second. Yeah. Any further discussion? Is it good with you? Yeah, it is what it is.
I just heard it. Okay. Just facts. Okay. So, do we need to vote? Yes. Veronica. I hear the motions for tonight. Um I will be obtaining next year I promise. So why don't we start with the um yeah
why don't we start with ours is in the special four of them. [Music] Um do you have handouts for us or is it in our the handouts I I have it in my office. I'll get
everyone basically just the budget with the recap. Are we looking at the budget with the recap? No, no, we're looking at the motions to see who That's what I was looking for. Yeah. See, so let's look at
the special town meeting one. Um not sure who wants to go first or second. Well, I think Laura should start first because she as far as make the emotion goes, she's a chair and we'll just go round round robin. That's fine.
So, I'm happy to read any long ones wherever it ends up. Then there's no uh Yeah, exactly. preference. So, Lori is article one unless we get to something that is when
we get to like planning. Yeah, we can. that we can. Okay. Yeah. So, um, basically, and I never understood why article one is in the special as well as the annual. It didn't
used to be. Oh, but now I put in there just to cover our bases. So, [Music] it's there now is we're not moving it. your Yeah. Are we expecting any reports
in special? Hard to say. Okay. All right. Like I said, I I put it in there just to cover. Okay. I'll do number one. I'll do the second one. So, you are article three. I guess it's
So, do we need to talk about anything in the motion or are we good? Well, I'm good. Okay. Thank you. Um but I understand that um and and of course we we did this with the department heads as far as like what we
I would hate it from capital right for the town maintenance but I'm hearing they're not going to allow that. I we have to have this town maintenance and this was in a meeting with the
department heads. Do you want me to Well, it was capital planning meeting that we um approved this. It was agreed on on February 26th, I guess it was. And then on March 18th, I think we reviewed the capital budget in our meeting. It's
in the minutes that you just did. It was either the 18th or the 19th, I can't remember. And um uh this was agreed on. Um I'm uncertain at this point what FinCom is doing with this. Um one of
their budgets allocated this to the um the police cars, the police leases. So instead of having this money go to the town hall repairs, um they thought it should go to the
police car leases and then they decided not to do that and at after today's meeting I'm not exactly certain. It doesn't matter. I it it was a vote for by capital planning. Um we should go forward with this and see what the town
thinks. Um the reasoning was that the um the so after all of these votes were taken, a vendor was asked to provide um an estimate for doing town hall and um
it came in at 16,000 more than the 53k that we have. However, um one of the reasons for putting this article on the special town meeting instead of the annual town meeting so that was that the these past articles that are being
combined, the work could happen in fiscal year 2025 and um and consequently facilities could get started right away. And if there are funds left in the um in the
budget for repair and maintenance or professional contracts or whatever, those additional funds could go towards this. Um or you just do as much of the work as you can um until the money runs
out and work with the vendor to see what is doable within that amount. How how long is the estimate for? I don't know. I imagine it also probably go up in the near future. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that's true. So, um that was the
reasoning for putting it in the special town meeting instead of the annual um so that work could begin immediately. Annual town meeting, those funds can't be touched until after July 1st and then you miss the some good
weather months. So, sorry. Yeah. Okay. So, why don't we move on to the uh annual town meeting one articles? Um the three planning board articles.
Were you hoping to read all three or Why don't we start with article one? Yeah, that's okay. I'll I'll do article one and then I can Mr. Moderator, I have a report. Yeah. Okay. And that fits perfectly with going straight from the special tone
into this. I guess I don't know that's okay with everybody. And then it would be on to Valerie for article two. Mhm. And where are we at with that may put you perfectly for
and you can decide how many of these you want to do. Um I I can do them all that have to do with Okay. So that's um because I have all the backups for that. There won't be anybody from the floor speaking. Oh,
really? Just you? Just me. you. So, you're doing three, four, and five. And three, four, and five. Yeah, there's three. And um needs some volunteers, too.
I just saw you know about that. Yeah, I did too. There's a from Beth. Yeah, Beth, which should probably be on our next meeting, right? Yes. We're meeting on the 13th. So, let's put it on. I missed that. It just came in like just before this meeting. Oh, 15 minutes
before [Laughter] so look at it and or the go any further in this meeting. I I apologize to anybody who I have not called
back because from and this will be today because I take calls all the time and I probably start at 7:30 in the morning and go until midnight and with Sabrina sometimes it's 1 or two in the morning.
Yes. So today I had a three-hour class, 3.5 whatever hour class that I had to do. And during that I did some text messaging, but that was it. I couldn't do I I couldn't do my work. But I also
work. So if I didn't get back to somebody today, it's because of that. I only talked to about a dozen people today alone and half the class. So, um, some people think I'm a superwoman.
Well, my daughter thinks I'm a superwoman. Anyway, so far I can go. I really can only do two or three things at the same time. Now that I've made my apology, you can go on.
Okay. So, article six is the community preservation committee bylaw. Is one of us reading that, Nelson, or is that the committee that put that forward? Um, I mean, the motion is pretty short because we're just basically referencing what's
printed in warrant. Um, the language is certainly pretty long itself, but but people have the, you know, the the warrant articles, so they can sort of read it, you know, certainly during or before to
Okay. Be familiar with that. Um, Bill, that's yours. Bill Ry out will be on hand to answer any questions. Oh, good. Okay. All right. That's good. Maybe he'll volunteer to read it if people ask to have it. The whole
thing, but it's wouldn't be the first time, right? Fair enough. Five sections. So your order for seven then Yep. I think it's great that we have two
femal unusual lead article eight that's the revolving funds. I'm article nine, which by the way, the last I heard the fin is voting against that.
Okay. So, you're 10. I'm nine. Valerie's 10. which is appropriate actually. Exactly. I'm fine reading I'm fine reading any article. I really am. I have no problem with that. So, being the obstainer, but I I would if you want me
to read it, I will read it. That's not a problem. And Lauri, you get article 11 just the budget. That doesn't seem appropriate. Like I said, I'm happy to read it. I have no problem reading it at all.
Um, so I think I think you should do 11. Lori Valerie's doing 10. You 11. Just rolling right along in our our rotations. I'm doing 11. Is that Yes, I'm doing 12. Um, and I have a
question about 12 and it's it's really one for Jane. Can I ask it now or do we want to finish this and then come back? No. Um, if you look at the budgets, item I
um 121, if you look at 124, it lumps together both positions there. Yet in article 12, we are setting the compensation. How does that work?
We have a union and non-un employee in there. Article 12 pertains to the elected officials. Mhm. And the only elected official in town
um that's paid that's paid is line 122. Usually not this year. We had to lump them together because uh you know of the um cuts that were proposing to be made.
I'm I'm not sure I understand the budget. The town clerk salary is proposed at 70,000. Oh, that's it. It it's grade grade F step one.
Okay. Um the Collins report put the town clerk at our grade on our um wage compensation our class and compensation scale and it's a new new employee new clerk. So step one seems fair to me.
Okay. Um maybe not to everybody but to me it does. Um and that's where we had set it. Um okay. So that would be town meeting um would be voting for that. Okay. All right. Grade
F step one. All right. I I think it's a sticky one. That's all. Um, we had also received a a note from Nelson about that. I don't know if you
all received it, but I did. Um, that someone at town meeting is going to be proposing that it be a much higher rate than grade F step one. Not sure why they would do that because to raise the step like that,
somebody's been there 15 years and we we do have other employees on grade F that are farther up the scale. Um so it it just seems fair to me, but just know that this could be a a
sticking point. We agreed. Yeah. Okay. All right. We don't have an executive session on here, do we? Anyway, let's keep going. Article 13. No, Valerie. Oh, I'm sorry.
Um, I want to back up a minute. I'm looking at Some of these are majority, some of them are um twothirds, and it's kind of mixed up here. Nope. Uh, it depending on what the uh article is, the the threshold to get
it passed is different. Sometimes it's twothirds, sometimes it's u uh you know, majority. Um, okay. and John will announce those. Okay. Moderator. Yep. And uh when town council reviewed it,
they they provided to us what the threshold should be. Okay. To get it passed. Um let's keep assigning and then I want to come back and talk about article 8, but let's keep assigning.
So article 14, we were at Valerie, so it's you right. 14's me. Yes. Capital planning and then 15 will be me also capital planning.
So, it's the overlay surplus account for the 10,000. This came up last night at the um FINCOM meeting. So, this is for the overlay surplus is the um revenue source in the recap. Correct. And it's
for FY. Which one is it? Is it what came out of FY25 or is it what's um being set aside for FY26? Well, they have a surplus account. So, that that's cumulative. Cumulative.
Okay. All right. So, that's Valerie. Article 16. Oh, that's Lori, right? You were 15. I'm 15. So, you're 16. Yep. Sorry. My bad. That's okay. Losing the order here somewhere. Article
17 is Lori. Article 18 is me. That's the first of the Hero Act, right? So, I wanted to talk about art. Um, I I didn't have time to digest
it. Um it this has to do with um trash from what I gathered this morning. Not not first of all from the fincom. The fincom did not have trash in. Um but then someone came on the Zoom and said,
"Oh, but there will be trash." And I know that um Carla said that uh during the finance committee last night that there would be a presentation by the um board of health on trash. Do we know
about that? And do we know where we're putting that in? Um and um I a resident in town had sent me this clip about something that Don Priest had put up on Facebook saying, "Hey, is this true? I
think you saw a Adam did respond to it today. So I forwarded those thoughts on and they have to do with revolving accounts and whether or not stabilization can be used and blah blah blah. Nowhere in this meeting are we
pulling funds from stabilization. Yet the fincom seems to think that they can amend things during um the uh budget budgeting process to pull money from
stabilization. What I read from Adam's response was yeah no you can't do that. Uh, no, you can set up a new revolving account or use an existing one without having already had the process in place
similar to what we did in article 9 for the revolving fund for town hall public records. Um, so, uh, that's what I read. Am I understanding that correctly? Um,
right. It's not on the warrant. So, anything that's not on the warrant can't be brought forward during the town meeting. I mean, we had a we had a crazy town meeting in March and I'm just trying to avoid I
want to make sure that we stay to the program, right? I mean, it's scope um stabilization here. Um, so it obviously it would be the moderator's call, but it seems beyond
the scope of the warrant. It's beyond the scope of the warrant. Okay. I I don't mean to be the select board dictator. However, I cherish the role. Can I just a question because I I don't know a lot of things.
Um, can they use the whatever fund they have now for the recycling place they have? Is that a revolving or enterprise fund? Okay. So, can they use can they combine that? Do you think I had asked that
during one of our meetings joint with board of health when Carla was saying and we're going to charge Lunenburgg more money and I said can we use that for the trash and she said no and so I took that as God's truth and
I'm not and and so what I read in there is the answer from Adam is no you can't use that. Um that you would have to set up a different one and because it hasn't
been set up in this warrant, it can't be that just came in. I I read it right before I came here at the same time I read Beth to ask us to post for finished reading it. I didn't read his earlier email to Ross yet. Yeah, it was
a a fast um Yeah, because there is an earlier email to Ross in there which I think you got it too. I don't know if everybody got it. I don't know if Lori or Val got it. She her hand is up. I'm
gonna address her. Yes, thank you. I'm at the bus stop here. Um I just uh wondering there is an article that says a revolving of fund for recycling is at like I think 45,000.
Could that be added if needed of like if you can set the time right then at annual town meeting the max of that account. So if that account can be added for temporary and then can be done at a
special town meeting and another one to uh move money. But I think you have to have that max um expanded so that money can go in there because there is going in there grant money is going in there. Of course
recycling the transfer station money is going in there. Um, but if it needed to be temporary and I do think there is an actually another account because I have one for Earth Day and I think that could also go in there as well. So I think that's a revolving
account or it's just an account under the board of health. No, I think the board of health only has that one. It must be under that one. Um, Irene, can I ask a question? Absolutely. Do you remember the meeting you were there and Carla was talking about
charging Lunenburgg more money to use our recycling center? Um, yeah. So, that's a suggestion I gave to them. So, I worked with two other towns that have opened their recycling center to other towns. The town of Lunenburgg, as of
right now, does get grant money for utilizing our recycling center. So car the board of health and the town of Lunenburgg have actually a draft which I helped draft them up uh is uh the buses like here
um that u it's just a small stipen to have utilized the transit stations. Okay, that's okay. I had asked if that could be used for trash and I was told no.
Wait, just wait a second as I cross the room. Sure. Go ahead. Okay, I'm gonna let let Sue talk in the meantime. Okay. You there's an article, isn't there? I think you just referenced it um about a new
revolving public records. Yeah. In that revolving fund motion in in that article, doesn't it define where the money comes from and what the money is used for? Yes. Yes. We
do we do specify that. So if each one because if my memory serves me all right sometimes it's not great. Um, every time we created a revolving fund, we
specified where that money is going to come from and what it's to be used for. So, it's it's pretty well defined for each one of those, right? So, so to do that doesn't sound you can't do it. That's what Adam
was saying. He said you can't just it's out of the scope. the only way and it's I think it's the state that defines what we can do for revolving funds. Actually, we have a the state defines how to create them. Exactly. Our bylaw defines
what they are, right? Okay. So, you'd have to reference the bylaw if there is one for recycled or for whichever ones you're talking about. Um but typically it says it when when we create it. This is what it is. This is I
mean you three a few years back. One to deal with public records, one to deal with cruiser administration fees that that we can then use to offset maintenance issues with cruisers. And the third one to recoup administrative fees for our fingerprint for our
firearms pering process to offset the costs of fingerprints. Well defined and it was specific an article we presented research find out I mean it's not these are these are not over the season
yeah yeah yeah I think you make a good point and Adam's correct I'm going to select board meeting is it can it wait or do I got to get back to my town meeting so okay I'll
talk to you tomorrow okay so I am sitting back. Did you want me to answer back? I know that there was a question. I was Did you Did you hear that the revolving funds are specific and you can't do an add-on? Right. I
It's It's It's not like it's definitely different. It is just for trash and recycling collection is what it is right now, but it would be for a temporary for this, but that might be for the annual town um special town meeting versus the
annual town meeting, but it's on the warrant for the annual town meeting. I I do have that in communities that an enterprise fund needs to be approved at annual town meeting and a revolving up can be approved at any town, any any
um special town meeting. It's just that we don't have one on the warrant for this special town meeting. So, we can't you can't just add it on is what it comes down to. It's not here. It's not on the warrant to address,
right? Yeah. Like our trash now is we have the bag money coming into the town. We don't have it under It's just coming in. It's it's under the general fund. That's kind of where we are now. And that's what other communities do for other things is when you hit a certain
number, it's beneficial to have an enterprise fund or a revolving account just to make the accounting look a little more streamline, but it's still coming all out of the resident's pockets. So, not as tax revenue,
it's all coming out of our money no matter how you get it. Thank you. Yeah, but it's not exactly Yeah, it's either it's either a fee or or a tax and right now it's a combination.
It's not in the tax levy. In other words, it's outside of the tax levy is what I'm talking about. And if it's within the tax levy, not at this it was voted down. If we wanted trash, we should have voted
for the overall or come up with a way that was in here as an alternative been a lot cheaper if we just went the 625 override and everything would have been focused, right? And cheaper for everybody in the long
run. Okay. So, um the the meeting um I actually was able to get to assist to law enforcement. At first I thought they weren't able to do it because Well, I thought they were
along. No, no, but I didn't know. I I thought so. Well, I knew they weren't potentially going to be available and the reason was it was a placeholder. Pepper had their annual town meeting last night. But if there was a chance they went a second
night, then you know obviously they would have assisted versus helping us. Um but annual town meeting took two and a half hours last night. Like that's a record. Yeah, I spoke to the TA annual town meeting.
Um so folks are available. I wonder if towns will lead and be done within three hours. I got it. I I did go and think for next year. There's some thoughts I have on things that we could do that might help that seem to work for them.
It's too late to change now, but you know, going forward, next year's budget practice, just a few little things that seem to work really well. So, so Pepp folks will be able to assist us to uh go live because they they're really the only ones with the capability in that to
uh go live on channel 9. Okay. So, the folks that can't make it um can certainly tune in um and and watch it. They won't be able to participate obviously, but they can still view it. Everything should be all set. TAM will be arriving there shortly to start
setting up along with the purple folks and couple of um um teachers, administrators, high school helping out as well. So, and printing out the handouts as we
after we adjourn this meeting. So, we'll have um handouts, a copy of the bound annual county annual report for anyone that's interested. We will have budget copies. Correct. Correct. And the recap. Yes, that is the
handout. Okay. All right. Good. And then is finance going to have a separate budget that they're handing out? Yes, I believe so. And that kind of segus us into 4.6. Um I I don't know what that recommended budget looks like. I think
they were still working on it this morning and probably when I walked in there were three of them downstairs. Okay. So, um I don't know if they're still there. I mean, we certainly have seen when I walked in. We certainly have seen a preview of what it looks like,
but there's probably tweaks to be made. Um my concern is um a lot of department heads haven't been consulted on it. Um certainly bigger ones you I think the police chief might have been consulted earlier this morning but I don't know if
the fire chief has been consulted. So that's kind of my Did you this morning? I did. I did. um the original budget that they that they had submitted um I think it uh cut my expenses line probably in the 15% or something. When I
when I asked about that their um their response was that was a functional segment issue meaning that they just needed the dollar of figure not necessarily out of the line that they proposed not knowing what that would do. where we left it was I it's my
understanding I I explained to them that those cuts were catastrophic. I couldn't do those that I would actually lean towards a personnel uh cut and not hire an open position for the entire year rather than just a quarter of the year or whatever else and I had come up with
um their response to that was that they were going to reflect that in their budget that they were going were going to present at time but I don't know what that looks like because even that is difficult because if you tell me $70,000
out of my first part of my personnel side. I have to unpack that and pull that out of the individual lines that it would it's much more b it's much more granular than what they are suggesting. Suffice to say either budget is tough
for me uh because next year uh when I refund that position fully I'm starting out the gate with a 2% increase in my personal services with the selective budget. So I that that's challenging in and of itself. If the the impeach budget
or whatever budget the finan comes up with were to pass and it's a yeah I would be starting the year at a 4% increase next year in my personal services line without even moving anybody on any scales without incorporating any sort of steps or or longevity payments or any of those those
issues. So both certainly challenging. Um I I I will do my best with whatever budget I get, but suffice to say there is nothing to cutting the expenses part of our budget without catastrophic impacts to our ability to provide services. We are we are very lean. I I
think my initial budget prior to Nelson and I working together, I think my total budget increase was 2% and I think at this point it's probably zero if if if not even half a percent away from zero. I mean it's pretty it is as neat as we
can go without actually I can't go any other place other than at this very comment that's first time I've ever heard in all the years that I've been going to town meetings and involved it's the first time I've ever heard about a
finance committee coming in with their own budget. I I I I I question I know their role from a legal perspective. Um advisory advisor we have we have a
policy a finance policy you know this is this is how the budget is built. This is how it's presented. Um they certainly have recommendation rights and and responsibilities. Um, but I'm just
trying to picture how Joe Q public is going to sit there and see the budget that's attached to the warrant, which is your handout and try to compare that and be
able to make a decision on a whole new budget that nobody's seen. And we have, I don't know if you were here when I brought this up earlier, but we have um first time, you know, three new
people in just for like two months. And um half of the finance committee was new, less than six months. And so we thought it was going to be a great idea if we had joint meetings. So we did up until March 1st when March 1st was
seven-hour day jointly with department heads in in all of February. So all those over 40 hours, all those meetings and then March 10th happened and what we had decided and
thought was the way to go, which was going to require an override, was shot down like within 10 minutes of the first presentation of the two warrant articles that separated and explained where everything was going in
the government part and everything was going in uh what is going to the school budget and then the motion to eliminate all free cash and absorb the school amount forgiving anything that was going
to happen to the rest of the town passed by six people and we have been in turmoil ever since. But you have some influencers out there that think they know how to run the police department, how to run the
fire department. I was on finance for 12 years when I first started. Okay. Way back when with the oldies and we would uh me or
me cuz I was here. You weren't. Um but Yeah, you were. But we um we worked together. We met with all the departments and we all we did was recommend or not
recommend what select board was putting forward. That was all we certainly didn't get outsiders to start putting stuff. Of course, it wasn't Facebook then, but putting stuff out there to rile people up who are never
involved. They are not involved. Yet, they make disrespectful comments all over Facebook thinking that all of us don't know what we're doing and we must be lining our
pockets. It that always makes me wonder those who accuse are usually the ones who have done. Anyway, I I I'm didn't get off my soap box. I just um I I really hope that
um I I don't know if council's even looked into that part of it, but it's to me it's not finance committee's role to to submit a budget to that meeting. The f is I mean It's defined in state law what the finance committee is is
for. It's defined in um in our bylaws what the finance committee is for. It's defined in the the policy you know our our budget policy what um you know what is to be done and how it's to happen and it just
it just blows my mind totally. I can't that what I expected a and going along with what both of you are saying was that after the um that last week Wednesday
Nelson had sent the budget the one that is right here had sent it to the fincom and I had expected that in that meeting they would go through our budget and and it's fair game to recommend or not
recommend what is in the budget and they could do that with the line item and they and they do that write it up take it to town meeting present it to the people instead what happened was they came in with the budget that had been created by
two of the fincom meeting members two of the fincom members and two town residents apparently that's what they said if I remember correctly and that is the budget that they reviewed And I asked I at it was towards the end of the
meeting and I said, "But you haven't even reviewed our budget." This morning it became clear that none of them had looked through the budget. And um they started the meeting with um the chair saying I looked at the budget and the
the chief because Chief Sartell was at last night's meeting and um the chief had already made cuts to his budget that the chair at least was unaware of um because they hadn't gone through line by
line and he started to recommend that they go through the budget line by line and make the recommendations. Um, but it was decided that that was not the way to go. That instead they should look at this budget and prepare a budget and um ask that
that budget replace the the TA select board budget. So, um, did the finance committee vote on that? Yes, they did. So it wasn't an official subcommittee authorized by the finance committee
or the moderator though I don't know the moderator appoints the No I know but as a as a committee I think they have the right to create a subcommittee but that subcommittee doesn't have any power they have to come back and officially report to their main committee they made some
motion at the direction of the town resident who was there advising the fin some motion that whatever votes they take during the subcommittee meeting is for all of them. Um that's you can't do
that sub I you know committees have no power. Um anyway so Oh isn't that interesting? It was um that that I'm that's what I saw. The FinCom meeting is up online if you want to watch it. the
one from this morning. Um, so, uh, I don't know what else to say. Um, thank you informing me. Thank you for coming. So, it's it's we don't know what that
budget looks like. Again, I think we we have a inkling of, you know, what might be in there, but it's anyone's guess what the ultimate um proposal from them is. Well, the might have in the end, it's hard to say. And they were going to
meet with all the department heads today and department heads were to um report back to them by 4:00 on whether or not their suggestion for the amount to reduce by was um okay. with the
department head if they could do that in order to save jobs. Yet giving an amount does not necessarily save jobs. Um so I've I've this is a new experience.
Um and it's uh um and Sue uh in your past experience the budget was voted on at the functional segment as well. Typically all right years ago we did it
at a line item level or at least a department level. I remember I remember most of the time way back um that's that's the level that we were used to voting on because then
if somebody wanted to call out something specific in the department budget they could ask questions you know on line item 25 whatever um I hope that's nothing anyway
um I hope I just a made up number, right? Um but then it seemed to morph into a um let's hurry up and get the town meeting going. And because I'm
remembering um John Stonefield's wife and and um they they had specific questions and that's we had line item budget in front of us. We we voted at the department
level and then at the functional level and it made it easier I think for the accountant because the accountant at the same time was monitoring any changes that were made so that you ended up with the right totals
um and and the accountant was always a part of that um keeping track of what we would be voting on. Then it morphed into doing it just at the functional level which I in particular didn't care for. That was like it and that Kryler did
that in 19. No, it actually happened before before that. It's been for a long time. Yeah. And and I think part of it was people didn't want to sit through a whole bunch and they're looking more at a higher level. Yeah. Well, we used to do two or three nights. Yeah. Way back
when. Yeah. because we were really anal about looking at every and now it's worse and and well it isn't it isn't but I think we lost something not going by department by
department because I think people lost um a view to that but that's just my personal opinion uh typically in the last several years uh I'd say the last 10 12 years anyway we've at a functional
level, but that doesn't mean that you can't open it up at the level. That's what happened last. It's just, you know what it is? I just don't think it's I I think it's a lot to ask of people sitting in town meeting
to have a functional amount and then even even just for the schools, you know, you've got four four school um you really don't get you have to you have to be bouncing back and forth, you
know, it's it's more difficult to do it that way. Uh and and I think you lose sight of what is what's making up the totals, you know. Um and I think people sometimes get frustrated with that. Well, when you
look at all the line items and I think the town can vote on which way they want to do it. Well, people can vote. Yeah. Thanks for your I think they can make I think they can make a recommendation or or a request to the town moderator and
the town moderator will probably not be happy with going at a a more finite level but um but usually he leaves it up to the discretion of the town meeting at some point in time I think it the
meeting drags on too long especially outside of it's set for one night if they don't change that to multiply. I think it actually can dissuade some people from coming because it's going on for so long. And I think that's part of what used to happen is is you're going to especially younger voters who have
kids at home and stuff. If if we are going multiple nights through a budget, I think you will lose those people participating to some degree. Yeah. If if it I mean if it's set in policy you know I know some other towns set it for two nights in their actually
policies like that then people would know maybe I go to one night and not the other night or something but where if it's set for one night I don't know that it was ever policy if we make it through the one night then it oh yeah of course but I know I mean I mean you know when it's actually set for this day versus you know like Heather Town said it for a
full Saturday you know when it goes 10 hours 12 hours. Yeah we did Saturdays from one point way back. Yeah. Well, we did during co too. Yeah, we did. Just again to think about what you're saying.
It's kind of not valid tonight, but I mean I think given what's going on now everywhere, um I think people are paying a little bit more attention to numbers. They're paying attention to their own numbers.
Um, and it I don't think it hurts to to do it at least at a maybe even the department level. Give these guys a chance to speak for their absolutely what they're doing. You know, see what happens.
I know. I see ambulances and police cars coming up my street a lot more now than I used to. I work late in my office and I now have a scanner and they're busy. Well, I I just worry because it's a lot of us older
folks that are wasn't open when I moved here, but you know true for a lot of us. I we were not in favor of cutings. uh police and fire. Absolutely.
Especially since um fire has brought in because of their services so much more money in the last four years. Doubled what EMS has brought in. And we have a good crew.
you also start to incur overtime costs when you start cutting personnel. Yeah, that's the part of it. And I think at least that during my past time as a select board member when I walked away, I'm not exactly sure because I wasn't
paying close attention, but it I have the numbers. I read them to Fincom this morning. In fiscal year 21, our unbudgeted overtime for public safety was $274,453. That is above what was already budgeted, which was in the hundred
thousands. Um FY22 it was $197,547. And there was there's been and I was involved with I think two more one more budget before I walked away. And there was an effort to make things real,
to make the budget that you had to be the actual budget. And that involved also um paying more for on call folks, paying more for um our our providers, you know, our our emergency service
providers, whether police, fire, etc. Um, I know one of the line item cuts made on the first budget I saw was to on call firefighters. Well, well, that means that the quote unquote volunteers. So, guys in town who are on call and
paid at a lower rate than those who are full-time can't be called. The full-time guys have to be called and they've already worked their shift. So, then you're looking at time and a half or double time. Yeah, Madam Chair, just just real quick on the on the replacing
of of employees as well. While it's never easy to retrain people to do any jobs at our time, I understand that and I I'm not trying to say one group of employees is more important or than another. But I will say that if you were and I can't imagine that fire is any different or if they are, it's not much
different for us. My my estimated cost to replace a full-time person that leaves is in excess of of six figures. It's in the hundred thousands of dollars. So my problem becomes if you throttle that and do not fill a position for me to get someone back up and
running to rechedu them on the on my schedule by themselves out there working um is a 9 month to year long process. You add on the time that I recruit, you add on our testing procedures and such. I would
have to start now to replace someone in next October and that's kind of how that work. that person would not even be probably on their own earning straight time and just filling a ship for a lag of of anywhere between nine and 10
months. So for us it's difficult because the decisions we make now are not necessarily going to impact us in the six month window. It's you're talking a year out for us whenever we make these decisions. The the budget that the selectman had put staggered my hire till
the fall. If we if the uh fcom's budget quit in and I was to have to cut that position entirely where it would wouldn't affect us at all in fiscal 26 because it would be a donut hole in fiscal 27 even if I restored funding I wouldn't have that person up and running
in plugging that overtime hole probably until the next fiscal year um if if maybe the end of that fiscal year. So it it's a lagging um detriment for us when we when we do these personalities because getting an officer up and running is a lot different than getting
an office worker up and running or a person of another department up that's the considerations that I make when I make those decisions about personnel and board that can't even be compared to not to be disparaging of other jobs
across our other facilities but You can't compare that need for professional training to people work in the town hall or work for the highway department or do you
know you just you can't the training is different. It's a different type. I understand that. You can't compare it. So um I mean I understand that you know sometimes people think that it's favoritism but it
it's not. It's um it's common money sense to I'm sure it's the same for the school too. You want to get qualified teachers? No. Um I don't know what else to say.
What's on the Well, all I have to say is we have a budget. I at least feel confident in our budget. It might not be perfect. There might be places where things can be changed, but I am confident in it and I think it does the right thing for the
town. That will be a quote on Facebook in a few minutes. I don't know how we're going to do it. I think I think there's going to be ramifications to that for sure for the town like townwide that we may not be
thinking of that aren't going to be pleasant but uh what are we going to do? I don't know what to do. We go forward with what we have. We we followed a process. We did the process.
Um again I had thought that you know when everything happened I had asked when Vincome was going to meet again and I was told first week of April. So I figured okay we have a week and a half to kind of figure out and then they met
the same day as us like two days later. I don't know. It was like I guess it was a bad idea to do joint. I just kept it the way it used to be. No, I think who doing joins is okay. I I think that
I think everybody needs to reread the policies. Yes. I think also that and now they're not accessible. I was just going to say if you can find them finding something I have copies of. Yeah. And I think just also like the
calendar for the budget. There's some stuff out there. of income can be aware of what our schedule is and what the process is. We used to do that. I I also This is all for after this budget gets done. I I also think we've talked about
having a um a financial team meeting and I mean I've I've harped on this because I was so disappointed but we got a community compact grant in December of 22 to my term was done April of 23 for
um clear gov software and all of the and this is the software that PEPro uses by the way for their um process. We had the software. I had to log into it as did all of the select board, all of the fincom, the financial team downstairs. I
know because I went into it and looked at it. And so at the end of December, beginning of January, Eric um and you can see this in one of the FINCOM meetings where he comes in and says, "We're we're going to have the data
populated and then there will be trainings, but we were in the beginning of the heavy duty budget process and then I was gone in April and nothing ever happened with that." Um and and
that was that. But we do need something that we can all agree to use on to use that we use for budgeting for the town. And it may mean that we have to move a few things around like maybe our categories this gets moved there. But I
think they're all based on what DLS uses in their categories. You know, we had a software before. It was paid for by Charlie Baker's
administration. We had the Collins Institute come in. They did the study. They they sat with everybody. They did the budget. They trained people on how to do it. And it wasn't just the budget. It was all the forecasting. So, you had
software. Do you remember what product it was? I I would be glad to share it with all of you. I shared it with Eric. I shared it with Chaz. It went nowhere. I actually dug it up. I went
back to the Collins Institute. I contacted the head of the Collins Institute and I said, "The only reason I'm contacting you is because you were there at that time and I know that if
anybody remembers it, it be he sent it back to me within a day. Is this what you're looking for?" Yep. Sent it to Eric, sent it to Chaz, never got used. And the reason I did that was because I heard people talking about the same kind
of capability that we had already gone through. Well, that's how I feel. So, you were doing it. I feel like it was done twice and we still and we're still not there. That's great. And I think I think putting having the meeting everybody involved in this financial
process maybe inviting some people who have done it in the past to give advice so that next year we can just at least if if there's question we can say we all agreed this was the process and yeah we all bought into that process so that it
if you ever some continuity between all the groups involved I don't ever want to run again I actually don't even want to go to town [Music] Okay. But let me but I would be I would be
very willing and honored to work on anything having to do with processes and and use you you know you you've lost all your institutional knowledge, right? And and you have to
kind of drag some of that up from the deck. and figure out what worked, what didn't. Um, and I I would be glad to volunteer to help with something like that. Pro bono writing it down.
Where are volunteer forms? About what? Where are the volunteer forms? Well, well, here here's the thing, too. we have a budget process and we did agree with it and now at least um there are are people who aren't on
committees. I mean I would have loved to have had a third select board member, someone from town that we could have just pulled in to come and consult with us and send us stuff um for the past couple of months. I mean, so you can agree on all the policies and say you're
going to use this and then you can have, you know, um it's it's the beauty and the weakness of the form of government that we have here in New England. Well, let's go by the rule of
law as much as we can and um maybe things will straighten out. Okay, I have hope. I do too. Thank you. Your comments much appreciated.
And where are we at? I think we're finished at 46. Yeah. So, I don't have any updates. Um are is there a motion to
um pres present what we had agreed on for our budget? A motion to recommend fiscal 26 budget. Oh, we already did that, didn't we? I thought we were all the way down to the
reports. Uh because we don't have the finance committee budget. Not exactly. Uh they worked on it all day. So Well, we don't. It'll be a surprise. So there's no 4.6.
Um any other reports, updates for us? I I have one thing. I got the I went to the small town the MMA small town in rural um conference this weekend and this was one of the presentations and it's kind of a community building thing.
How to get things done if there's you have an idea and you want idea friendly. Gather your crowd, build connections, take small steps. It was it was a really good presentation. So, they had these cards, so I figured I'd get one for each of you just for, you know, something to
look at. Um they talked about there were of course it was in Holio so there were Western Mass uh reps and state senators there as opposed to our our representatives but um they discussed the cherry sheet budget and the um the
regional school district getting additional funds and the level funding of the AGA money in the cherry sheet in the hopes that it would trickle down to the towns for this year. I don't expect that trickle to happen because the
budget was already approved which means we ha we are cons we have to approve the school budget which we were going to anyway. So um but it means that the school district does not have to provide any more money for the towns even though
they they did get um some additional funding which is a good thing for the schools. They got additional funding but we do not we got levels in FY27 I am hopeful that that funding will continue and that we will see a trickle
down from it. Not a trickle down a pour down from it. So that's all I have to say. So th that was discussed and then there was an EMS um there was a really good EMS discussion I think I sent you uh Nelson
that they were looking for questions from communities. I I forwarded it to you and to Gary. Uh it was EMS and regionalizing services. They did a lot of talking about that and I know and there was someone from the Collins
Center there whose job it is to do regionalization of services between towns or separate nonprofits outfits that we're talking about ambulance services specifically, not fire. Um it it was a good presentation. So when they
post it and I'll I'll send it to you guys. So anyway, but this one was good. She was a really good speaker. There were only three. Um it was a half
day three presentation. We went to the new Mass Municipal Association training in June. It's about all I got. You'll love it. It is good. It's a full day. I did one when I became When is that good? June
13th. It's a Devon and they say you can go. You might want to look. I'll forward you the information. Lori, if you haven't gone, it's really good. I'll haven't gone to the full day things. I I've taken a number of specific. It's
specifically for Ducolin. It's really good. I think you might not because you were elected out of cycle. I bet you didn't get the email. So, I'll invited. It's it's in the latest of June. It's the full day and and if
you get the MMA beacon publication, it's in there. Um I'll forward it to you. Okay. Um can we go to the same thing? Of course. Because it's training meeting doesn't is training. I think we're fine.
Training. You're fine. Okay. We don't We don't have to sit deliberate. We shouldn't sit next to each other. We can talk. Actually, I'm afraid to turn sideways. Really? You know, I'm not I'm turning all I can.
We'll see how many I can collapse. I mean it's just the other day I walked to the building's like even when they said it was for new select I went oh they in the um thingy that I read in that publication it said
that even people that have been selectmen it's good to go like for a refresh especially because they talk about different things every every year you know new new legislation and whatnot So, and and sometimes things
change, you know. It's I'm sure they change all the time. Yeah. So, it's I find things like that well worth going to. That's why I do not eliminate training logs and budgets. I think that you're stronger if you go to the
trainings as this is free. Nobody's paying for it. Yeah, that one is free. Yeah. And I paid for my own training on Saturday so that nobody could say, "Oh, the town's paying. Whoops, she's taking the money." There there was I know there was a question someone at Fincom said
because there's a motion for the five person board that it would cost the town more for a fivep person board for what? And so yeah, that just may come up in the meeting, but it's MMA memberships. There are you do have to It's a town membership. It's a town membership.
Yeah. So I don't think it I didn't pay for it. No, no, the town does. It's the training line. Oh, so you're So we're going to pay for five instead of three in the budget. I mean I I think it's a town a town membership.
Oh, there's so many of it that you can join for. Yeah. So how would that cost him more money? uh if you were to take certain conferences where you have to pay by the by the person, you may incur some
expenses there. But I I think the the paid conferences that select men go to is far and few between. The only one I can think of is the MMA in Boston. The one I went to on Saturday was a paid conference. I just paid it myself. I
wasn't even going to ask. I think it's worth it. and you know, okay, it would be all over Facebook. No time flat. Oh, good. [Music] Um, I really don't have anything except
I mean I I hear from a lot of the boards that I lease on to almost every single day, more than once. So, I think everybody's just um upset about their budget. That's all.
And um and yeah, I'm going to me mention again there is no smoking allowed on town properties inside, outside, in your car. It's not allowed on any town properties. employees do not get special
privileges to smoke on town properties began in 1999 the policy did so which we can't see and it came out of the board of health so it's better not to smoke and it's also better not to have to smell
somebody else's smoke um and I noticed it more recently myself but didn't say anything mentioned it to me but Um, you shouldn't have to come out of your car to walk into the building and smell smoke. Shouldn't have to do that.
It's offensive. Um, other than that, we have volunteer forms and still lots of positions available. And our next meeting is we will be meeting again at
6:00 at um the high school, right? Yes. Okay. Seven. Today's seven, but we're okay. So today's at 7, sorry, for the annual meeting and then we meet on the 13th of
May. Next Tuesday at Correct. And we have a joint with the board of health that day. Correct. Correct. Um I believe we do. It's not It's not on my agenda, but I think I saw an email. I think we did it for 7 We set it up last week at
our meeting. Set it up at my first meeting. Yeah. Yeah. It's at 7:15. So, we're working out the details. To make sure we uh everyone posts correctly for the joint meeting, it's been done. All right. 5.5. Is there a motion?
I'm sorry. I move that we review and sign payroll and bills payable warrants out of session. Seconded. Sorry. Roll call. Veronica. Yes. I Yes.
Thank you all very much. Thank you. Uh now motion to adjourn. Oh. Um that was the motion for us to sign. I make a motion to adjourn meeting at 4:29 p.m. Is there a second? Second everyone.
Okay. I I Okay. We are adjourned. Thank you.