Morning everyone. My name is Laura Shiffren and I will call the meeting of the select board to order. September 30th, 2025 at 9:15 a.m. Roll call, please. Veronica Calich
present. Laura Shiffren present and remotely please join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I would like to thank all of our veterans as well as all of our members of the service both here and abroad.
all of our emergency response people, all of our elected and appointed officials, as well as all of their families who help serve our community. This meeting is being recorded and
uploaded to YouTube. Is there anybody else recording? [Music] Um chairman's additions regulations under 1.5 uh we will be moving with the permission of the board.
It's okay. Um minutes of September 25th, 2025 shall be moved to October 7th meeting. Is that I'm okay about that. Okay. Thank you.
Under 1.5 I'd like to bifrocate this. Uh they can I just go back a minute? But they are in the SharePoint. Correct. They just got put in late. Correct. 9:25. 9:25 is less.
Oh, is we're okay. It's not on what we need. Um 902 is still on today. Yes. Okay. What I'd like to do um if it's okay with you
uh the motion to be to include uh February 25th, February 27th, March 1st, April 9th, April 16th for the first motion. Yeah. Um, I move that we approve the
meeting minutes for 225 20225, 227 2025, 301 2025, 409 2025, and 416 2025. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? Hearing none. Roll call.
Veronica. Um, I abstained. I wasn't Laura and I. Thank you. So now continuing with the minutes that we have seen in SharePoint um with 429
um I move that we approve the meeting minutes 429 2025 429 2025 executive session 520 2025 522 2025 513 2025
42 52 523 2025 63 2025 610 2025 617 2025 618 2025 624 2025 701 2025 902 2025 and 918 2025. Is there a second?
I will second that discussion. Um I do have a change for 624. This is the meeting where um Roselli uh went over the audits. Um, my changes are in the arc of funds discussion and I have
them here. You guys want to look at them. Um, and I was going to give that to Sabrina. Other than that, I'm good. So, it's not substance. It is not substantive. That was the element.
That those are that's the only paragraph. You want a second? Yeah. Second the changes. Further discussion. No, that's the only change I have. So, it would be the motion with changes um
as noted for 624. [Music] Yep. So, okay. Second. Thank you. Uh roll call on Veronica. I wish.
Thank you very much. Um, and then there's a motion. Okay. Um, thanks. I move to release the minutes from the 629, 2025 select board executive session
pursuant to the September 16th, 2025 opening law determination of the office of attorney general and to authorize town council to notify the office of attorney general of the release of those minutes. Wait, did you say 6:29 or April 29? April.
Did I say I think I thought I heard 629. It's quite possible. Um, I move to release the minutes from the April 29th, 2025 select board executive session pursuant to the September 16th, 2025 open meeting law determination of the office of attorney
general into an authorized town council to notify the author office of the attorney general of the release of these minutes. Is there a second? Okay. Any discussion? Hearing none. Roll call. Roll call. Roll call. Roll call. Vote.
Sabrina wanted me to make sure you confirm I try for under nothing under two for appointments and hearings this morning. On number three, 3.1.
Is there a motion? I move to appoint Cindy King to the Commission of Disability effective 6:30 2020. 9:30. Sorry, I'm switching my nines and sixes today. Let me try this again. I'll restart. I move to appoint Cindy King to the Commission of Disability effective
9:30 2025 until 6:30 2028. Second. I'm going to say Veronica Keel second. Thank you. Any discussion? Cindy, thank you. Thank you.
Um, roll call vote. Veronica Cal I Valerie Gish. I Laura Shiffron I. Thank you, Cindy. Um, if I may, uh, we, uh, have a lot on
the agenda today and we also have a executive session and I, I think we should start that no later than 11:15 to allow us enough time to discuss things because if we don't um finish up the
executive session, that could have um an impact. Yeah. impact on the next um union negotiating meeting. So with that said, we have just under two hours to go through as much as we can. I think some
of these items um depending on time might have to get pushed to another meeting. So just to you know keep um time uh you know the time constraints in mind and I think something will probably be taking out of session. I think Tesa is here so we could probably do that
first. Um, Adam is also online. Actually, I think Adam has a hard stop at what did he say? Uh, 9:45. So, maybe we uh take Adam first while uh he we have about 20
minutes with him. Can I suggest that um we move 4.1 to the end and only do it if we have time? Okay. Thank you. So, uh, Adam's discussion is is 4.3.
Adam, morning. Good morning, Madam Chair, members of the board. We are in receipt of your letter. Um, do you want to just give us a little outline? I I'd be happy to. So, I I don't think
that the letter will uh come as a surprise or I don't think that it came as a surprise to any of you. I know I've spoken with uh at least one of you since it was received, but the nature of the letter, it's a to notify the the town of an adjustment to the fee structure um pursuant to which we have been
representing the town since 2018. Um each of you know because I had conversations with you in the late spring early summer uh that there have been some struggles of late uh over the past 12 to 14 months or so uh with respect to the effective rate um of the
services we've provided to the town as town council. And what I mean by effective rate is we we offer our municipalities and we have for the better part of a decade or more uh we offer our municipalities options when it comes to representing them. We offer a
flat fee structure where we provide all legal services for a guaranteed monthly fixed fee and we offer a more traditional hourly model. And then of course we have hybrid models. And Townsend actually opted back in 2018 when my firm was brought on as town
council opted for a hybrid model. And the way that the hybrid model works in Townsend is all of the general municipal services, which is the bulk of what is provided to the town on a month-to-month basis, have historically been provided and are currently provided for a fixed
monthly fee. Um, additional services that are built hourly include labor services and litigation services. And that's a fairly popular model with many of our municipalities. Um the objective of that model is um as we often say during interviews, it's it's to
recognize that some months we eat the bear and some months the bear eats us. Essentially meaning that when we calculate our effective rates, what it cost us to to represent the town, what it cost the town to have us represent you, we do so on a monthly basis. And there will be months for certain where
that hourly rate uh that hourly effective rate is much less than we would typically charge if we were charging a an hourly rate uh year round. Um conversely there will be other months when the rate will be higher and the idea is that over the course of a quarter over the course of uh two
quarters certainly over the course of a year uh that all evens out. So the objective is not necessarily to provide the town with an opportunity to get legal services for you know incredibly cheap as compared to the to the competition. It's to provide legal services at a reasonable cost to the
town, but also allow the town the flexibility to plan on a month-to-month, quarterto quarter uh basis so that when we come up toward the end of the fiscal year, typically in the months of uh March, April, and May as we're preparing for town meeting, the town doesn't find
itself in a situation where it's concerned about uh its ability to uh continue to pay legal counsel to perform the services that are quite important at that time of year um due to budgetary shortfalls. Uh the challenge in towns over the past 12 to 14 months has been
there really hasn't been that eb and flow. And we're not quick to react in these circumstances. Um we don't we don't pick up the phone and call our municipalities after a single quarter and say your effective hourly rate is quite bad. We need to increase your fee. That's that's not how the effective hourly rate is meant to work. It's meant
to provide for again that eb and that flow so that over the course of a couple of quarters or three quarters or a full fiscal year. There's an averaging out of the cost. So when all is said and done, uh the town has received legal services for a reasonable fee. Uh and we've been
able to collect a reasonable fee that allows us to cover our overhead to operate the business that we are ultimately operating um on an annual basis. The challenge in towns has been that that hasn't been the case over the past 12 to 14 months. the effective hourly rate, and I've gotten into some detail in the letter that I sent to the
board back on September 18th, uh has consistently been low. In fact, um only, I think I said only five times over the past 12 months has the rate exceeded $125 an hour. And that number may seem high to you, but by by way of comparison, uh legal services on an
hourly basis are typically charged at a rate of between $200 and $225 per hour. That's what our firm charges to our municipalities. We know that our competition is charging higher than that. They're typically in the $225 to 255 range. Um, so an hourly rate of $125
an hour effective rate. Uh, simply is not sustainable in the long term. And again, we've only surpassed that five times in the past 12 months. We've had months at $105 an hour. We've had a couple of months at $75 an hour. Um, so as a consequence of this, what the
correspondence we sent to the board informs you of is that at least in the short term, and certainly we're happy to revisit this in the future if the board is so inclined, we're going to shift to a an hourly model. And we're not going to we're not going to increase the fees substantially. We're going to shift to an hourly model. We're going to honor
the same fee that we're currently charging for your litigation and your labor services, which is $200 per hour. um that is u about $15 less than what we're charging some surrounding communities that we we bill hourly. Um and it's about $25 to $50 less than
we're charging other communities where we bill hourly. Um and that that would be the hourly rate moving forward. Again, that would be for all general services, for all labor services, for all litigation services. I don't think that necessarily means that the town is going to find itself in a situation
where it's up against a budgetary shortfall as it relates to to legal council services if the town can more carefully monitor its use of services. And what I mean by that is I look back over the past uh 7 8 years that we've represented Townsend and with some
consistency the the rate has exceeded even the $200 an hour we're charging. In fact, in many instances, it's exceeded the $215 an hour that we're charging some neighboring communities. Um, and that's an effective hourly rate calculated on an annual basis. Um, so in
years past, this has not really been a problem. Um, it may be and and I don't I don't you know, I speculate a bit in the letter, but I don't really know the reason um entirely why legal services uh or the need for legal services has increased so substantially over the past
12, 13, 14 months. Um, but I I I suspect that it may just be that towns and requires additional use of of town council more so than it maybe has in the past. And that's not unusual for uh growing municipalities. And we do re-evaluate
our even our fixed fees on a regular schedule in the municipalities that we represent using that model. We do the same thing with our hourly fees. Uh it may just be that the towns legal budget, you know, hasn't grown at the same pace as other budgets within the town. And as
the town continues to grow, it is going to continue to require uh the use of town council labor council services more than it did in you know 2005 or 2015 or even in 20120 just a few years ago. So that's the essence of the letter that we
sent a couple of weeks ago. Certainly I'm happy to answer any questions that board members uh might have. Again, I haven't covered all the detail of the letter. I tried to be fairly comprehensive in explaining for the board why it is that that we're um that we're um modifying the the the model
that um has worked fairly well for a number of years in towns. Questions from the board. Um one question I had, well actually two questions. One is this means that the fixed fee goes away and everything is
build hourly. Um and what does it do to office hours? Those are my two questions. Um, sure. So, we offer the same services as a firm under the hourly model as we do under the fixed fee model or the
hybrid model. And so, trainings, office hours, attendance at at of course annual and special town meetings, but also other meetings, whether they be meetings of the select board or the planning board or the zoning board of appeals. um contract reviews, assistance with open
meeting law complaints and public records requests. None of the services will change, but yes, those services will now be build on an hourly basis. Now, the the question for the town is going to be, and it's not something that needs to be answered now, maybe it's something that will need to be answered over a period of months as you evaluate
your use of town council services pursuant to the hourly model. Do you want to continue to request office hours? Do you want to continue to request trainings? Do you want to seek the same sort of assistance that you've been seeking? Attendance at meetings, for example. We have communities that in
an effort to sort of limit their their legal costs will, for example, ask us to zoom into meetings as opposed to physically attending meetings. Uh whether they be planning board meetings or board of health meetings. Um office hours. Again, office hours in most of
our communities are conducted uh with us physically present in town hall, but we do have a few communities that from time to time will opt to conduct those office hours or ask us to conduct them remotely. So, we would send a Zoom link around and we'd be able to meet with personnel uh by Zoom or we'll limit
office hours. So, rather than the office hours being conducted on a monthly basis, they'll be conducted on a on an every other month basis. So, that's really a choice for you. we're still able to and willing to provide the same services we have historically provided. And again, we've been able to do this
for years within the fixed fee model at really an effective hourly rate that is not much higher in many instances than than what we're what we're charging moving forward. Um, it's just a question of what other services are are going to be requested by the town beyond what it
has historically requested all these all these years. Um I wonder Adam if you could just speak to I so I pulled up all the this past year's um bills just to look through um I know like most of them seemed very
much within the realm of mute who's ever not muted of you know what I would consider probably previous experience a lot of you know land use um a lot of you know
special meeting meetings, etc., etc. Um, but there was a lot of billing for public records requests. I noticed when I was going through this past year, it was phenomenal. Actually, I stopped adding it up in June, I think, just
because I ran out of steam. But, um, is that something that's normal for your firm? Um, so not not always. Um, so you are correct. We we've of course um I've specifically looked back on on past invoices to get a sense as to what maybe
the root cause has been for the increase uh in in the use of town council services by the town. Um I I do think that public records requests have contributed significantly. You've also had some other challenges. I mean of course you've had multiple regular town meetings and special town meetings more
so than you typically have in a single fiscal year. uh those town meetings are not just one night affairs where I show up at town meeting. There's a lot of preparation that's required for each and every special or annual town meeting. And so those have certainly caused the town to incur more cost than it might in
a typical year. You've had challenges with things like the trash contract, which has not just been um the challenges of dealing with how to go about adopting, let's say, a pay as you throw program or shifting from funding trash within the typical budget to an enterprise, but also dealings with the
board of health, helping the board of health to understand how it operates, renegotiating contracts with the with the trash hauler. And so that was a an extraordinary expense. But to your point about public records requests um and I I think to a maybe to a lesser extent I would include open meeting law
complaints within uh the same realm. There have been a significant number of both in um the past several months. Um especially public records requests. Now open meeting law complaints. Um we have some towns that will regularly seek our assistance, others that will seek it
less regularly or less frequently. But we certainly recognize that when it comes to open meeting law complaints, there are nuances of the open meeting law with which members of public bodies often need assistance from town council. Public records requests, that's typically not the case. Public records requests, you know, what is and what is
not a public record is specified not just within the statute, but also within the state public records guide. And so in most municipalities, we will be called in on occasion to assist with maybe a unique public records request, something that maybe seeks documentation that is connected with, let's say, a a
pending lawsuit or documentation that would include communications with legal counsel, which might be attorney client privileged. And so in circumstances like that, we would expect to get a call. But in most of our municipalities, the records access officer processes public records requests, uh even voluminous
requests. We have one community where we have received about two public records requests every week for the past nine years uh from the same two individuals. Um and you know we do get calls on occasion from the records access officer to assist with uh the the occasional
more challenging requests from these individuals but for the most part those are processed uh through the use of uh administrative staff and and without without involvement by by by me or by my firm. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. Um, we certainly
appreciate your assistance. Most of us, as you know, are new, including our town administrators. So, we've had a challenging year. And, uh, you're right about the open meeting law complaints and the public record requests. They take away time staff, not to mention the
town clerk's office and select board, which is non-productive. Um, we have a recent one that god knows how long it will take because it sounds like a fishing expedition for 10 years worth of records. Um, and this comes at a time
where nobody wants the override yet we don't have the funds to pay the current salary wages. and the union uh the labor council has been involved quite a bit more I think probably this time around
than in a previous year. So we appreciate your assistance and my electrician and plumbers and vendors make a lot more per hour than what we have been paying you. And um I I really
feel bad about that. I don't think it's right. But we don't have a choice. Again, we appreciate you. Um, and let me say if I could, Madam Chair, you know, I I very much have enjoyed and and will hopefully continue to enjoy representing towns and certainly, you know, you have your challenges. Every
municipality does. Um, I feel very much that I've become in some respects a member of the community. Um, uh, I am happy to and and would hope to continue to work very closely with the select board, uh, and with Nelson and other staff, um, to try and monitor the use of
legal services. I know that another item on your agenda, I believe, today, although I probably won't be around for it because I do have a hard stop, uh, is the use of town council policy, which is maybe something that needs to be revisited a bit. Um, but I'm happy to continue to work with you in coming months, particularly as you review
invoices that are now build on an hourly basis to determine maybe where services can be provided more efficiently. It is certainly not our objective here, as is indicated by the rate uh for there to be any kind of a windfall coming our way. We're we're not even seeking to recoup the losses of the past year. We're
simply uh attempting to stop the bleeding, so to speak, with respect to continued representation of the town. But there'll be a learning curve. Um, but I'm certainly happy and would hope to continue to work with uh town officials and staff to try and find ways where we can continue to provide quality
service. The town can feel that it's getting the services that it needs and is being well represented uh in a manner that that works out financially both for the town and for us as a firm. Thank you, Adam. Appreciate your time today as well.
Sure. Thank you all. Have a great day. Thank you. Um before we go on, where do we want to take? Okay. 4.11. Would you like to come to the table?
[Music] Okay, I think where we left off was some things had to be changed as well as the map. So, you have a floor. Okay. Um, so I sent in the map that we discussed. Um,
everything else I feel is consistent with what we had before. So, um, are there any questions for me? I don't see, uh, that was much clearer within that.
I'm good with I'm good with relief. I guess the only thing and this is something that we can discuss closer to annual time meeting is how to go about doing a transition and requesting a longer period of time if but that we can do at another time.
This is just to renew the current lease. So, I'm good with this. Just substituting in the um math that you which is much clearer than the one I had. Yeah. Um and then I guess you'll get back to us
with what you're hearing on how long the lease would be convenient for those grants. Yes. I'll motion today. Think so. Right. Um, I make a motion to accept the Tesa
lease effective Nelson. What should the date be? The 4th 101. October 1st. Okay. October 1st, 2025. [Music] Um, through September 30th, 2028.
Through September 30th, 2028. And Veronica Kell second. Okay. Any discussion? Any further discussion? Hearing none. Roll call. Vote. Veronica Cal. I
Good. I Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Um for the rent, will we be given an invoice or should we just submit? uh wanting the contract is
you know I I suppose the invoice so to speak. Okay. So we can so we can just submit. Yep. Okay. And is there any issue with submitting the full rent for the next three years immediately so we don't forget how much is that rent? A
dollar a year. We do not accept cash. Right. Thank you. Um I So which way do we have to do it? I think it because of fiscal year it needs to be done annually. Yeah,
that would be my response to that. Yeah, I think that's right. It's not an issue. My treasurer just asked. So I wanted to check. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Uh 4.2 here.
Sure. Good morning. Good morning. How are you today? Good. All right. For the recording, I'm Colobby Streer, conservation agent for the conservation commission. Yeah. I I believe you wanted me to speak
topics that I have nothing in the folder here, so I don't know anybody else. So, all I see damn removal except etc. and the other projects that have been going I wasn't clear on it. Uh the you have the floor.
Yeah. Uh I'll jump into the dam removal application. Um it has been submitted. The deadline was October 1st. Um and it's an application for um preliminary preliminary design services uh for the
dam removal of Adam's Dam which is behind Farmers Exchange. Uh what else? So that's a study. It's a study. Yeah. It's uh not this application is not for the removal of the dam. It's for the preliminary
services which include the analysis engineering and analysis uh that goes along with so what happens if we pull the dam out? Exactly. Yeah. And if it's uh you know potentially uh outweigh the the benefits
outweigh the any any counterproductive uh measures that would uh be involved with it um being you know temporary siltation in the water. But the benefits include
well a bunch of ecological reasons to do it. And the dams typically uh warm water behind them. Um they collect sediment. Um they the sediment is actually almost up to
the top of that dam. You can walk across the the dam as it is now. Um they're major barriers to obviously fish and other invertebrates. uh they trap pollution and those that
area there that dam has actually have has u several report cards on it for u elevated ecoli over the last few years um uh beyond the safe u safe standard
that they they uh um consider to be safe for swimming. What else can I say? Uh that was the application was actually um turn submitted by Kieran the grant administrator. Uh I did some of the
footwork well leading up to that. There are going to be grants uh available for any of the preliminary services that they think are appropriate. Um but it's not clear what
that grant process is quite yet. uh it will become more clear if they say that yes uh and I say they meaning the it's the deer which is the division of ecological restoration
uh if they deem it to be a dam that you know would uh is appropriate to remove uh they will outline uh the grants available. So, and that should be a a no cost um
sum to us. So, there should be no costs with the prelim preliminary services. Having trouble with that word today. So, how does the grant work? Is it that the town is given funds that we then hire a a firm to look at it or is it the
ER who looks at it? Maybe. We don't. Wait, wait, wait. It's not clear. We've asked um what what the grants are, how they work, and we just have not received an answer yet. They they work on the it's a little bit
um the reverse operation there. So they determine whether or not the dam is uh should be removed or would be beneficial deer and then they outline what the um grants are that would pay for these pay
for those services. But they they have so they are the ones that do the initial look to see what the um Yes. And they what happens if the dam is pulled out. Correct. and they have some kind of grant structure, but they haven't explained it. Okay.
Yeah, that's interesting. What else can I answer? Um, uh, Nelson mentioned Dudley Meadows. Uh we recently had it on the special town
meeting as an article that that property was transferred from was it the the select board right to the uh conservation commission. Um there was also and this is well it's a little bit
related but not um there was a property there that had an encroachment on the property and those homeowners have removed their fence uh and are in the process of moving the chicken coupe um onto their property. So they they were
very much on top of it and got right to it. Um and along that side of uh it's Peter J. Drive, we have put up uh placards that uh denote our property.
Yeah. Okay. I think that's all I have for you. Unless you have any any other questions for there were three properties along the river at Adams Dam that um there there was a discussion I think you brought it to the board Valerie.
Uh so tell me about that. Uh yeah so uh on either side of Adams Dam uh we have two town owned properties. I thought there were three and there's one closer down to the correct there's one there's like a peninsula in the river. It's a little
bit south of that one, but yes, it's it's it abuts that that property to the south. Um, and it came up uh two of those properties on the east side of the river came up dur through the towns and property
commissions um as looking for a town office to own it or take control of it. And we voted on it. Uh we the conservation commission uh voted on it in a meeting to suggest that
it be placed under the care and custody of uh the conservation commission. Um and I guess that's I would want further protections. Yeah. I mean I'm I'm not opposed to going to
the conservation commission, but I want to know what happens once it gets there. Okay. Um I to me that's sensitive area. It's right along the river. It it's it would be a lovely park. It would. Um and uh I just want I want something
more definitive is what I would be looking for. Okay. Um as far as what is the conservation commission thinking to do with it next? Yeah. Well, um, what sort of protections does it provide
the town? I would want those properties preserved, but also you the ability to use them, correct? So, so I think that's uh the the came up in the discussion that we had when considering them for transfer. Um,
do you know about what date that was? I should watch that. I I have every conservation I got to go back and for this past summer. Yeah. Yeah. This past summer I'll look at agendas.
So has just been fully seated. No, but it's conservation that discussed it. So I don't know when town properties discussed it, but I don't remember either, but they'll be meetings soon. and it was a month or two prior to that.
Okay. Okay. I'll look it. So in the the support that I recommended for the conservation commission to transfer these properties, I included uh that you know the conservation commission can protect them the most out of any
town office through has not necessarily been my experience but well it should be statue because it it would fall under Mass General law chapter 40 subsection 8 A
I want to see A. Correct me if I'm wrong if it's C or A, but I believe it's AA. Um, and that that um protects it in per in perpetuity. Um, meaning that
you it removes any kind of uh building rights that can on those properties and those properties are have would be tough to build on as they are as it is right now because they're all they completely fall within riverfront area and and flooding flood area um the flood
district. But this is um this goes further. They because that master um prohibits the sale to any private land owner or without legislative approval.
It's extreme. It's really tough to have it removed uh from that from that um statute. Uh yeah. Yeah. The So I I guess the other
alternative maybe is for it to go to parks and cemeteries, but I don't think they have any kind of laws that really protect it. They do not. So, okay. And that this was the the purpose of
that law is to place properties in a state where they cannot be developed. Uh they have to be used for conservation purposes with a purpose to transfer. Okay. Yep. and and but that doesn't uh mean that they cannot have um uses by the
public. They can still have a park area or um and possibly limit limited structures as far as like a canopy or something. Um okay. Yeah, that's up to the commission
from there on. Oh, uh part of that the third property uh is across the river on the west side. uh been exploring it because it's been it looks like it's uh actually in the care of the select board. Again,
I I know that the town um it's been understanding that it's been under cemetery and parks, the property on the west side. Um and I I can't find anything written on um Are you talking about the property that
the trail is on? Nope, that's the east side. Uh so if you look, it would be across the river uh on the Worcester road side. Okay. And there's a large property there that runs along the river. And again, that's one
that is largely undevelopable. Um but it's not clear who is who's taking care of it. Current usage current usage is nobody takes care no one I mean it's there's a couple
trails in there already by people fishing but again it's in the flood district so that's one to consider as well to be transferred to the conservation commission.
Yeah. So, going farther, I would say um there's a quite a bit of potential there for um conservation area or or park area to be developed right in the center of town.
I right on the rail trail with a parking lot right there. And if the rail trail ever does extend beyond, which I'm sure is in the works, which they have money for now, receive money, right? So, it's um uh I don't know. It's
an opportunity. It is. And there are people from out of town that started using the trail. I've talked to them because I'm on there frequently. So, it could be a bigger drop, right? Yeah. if it could be worked into the
plans for the downtown area. So anyway, that's my two cents. Thanks. Tourism. Thank you for that. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Cody.
Okay. Um it is your pleasure 4.4 review discuss of town council policy thoughts. Um I think we need to look through this policy and um make sure that the form is
actually being used by departments. I think Nelson, you need to keep track of hours and who accesses. In other words, there shouldn't be any um use of town council that doesn't go through the town administrator.
Uh I think now that's not the case. I don't know. Um um this form is um typically used by most departments either um you know, this is certainly a more formal way. Sometimes it's uh a request via email to
me instead of the form. Um but nonetheless, it still goes through me. Um I will uh have the form be used a little bit more often versus just a um request via email. I will also send out
an email to all staff members about the fee structure change. you know, they certainly don't uh it's $200 an hour. Not that it ma not that that number matters to staff members, but I think uh we need to be
more judicious about what um what goes through Adam cuz we probably should keep that number in mind. You know, he looks at it for half an hour. That's a $100 that's being built to the town versus, you know, the previous flat fee uh structure. So, I think I will need to
sort of reiterate how important it is that we um limit the use of town council unless absolutely necessary. Certainly, the next few months just to see how things um potentially level out level out. Um
you know, the way I I did the math uh previously, the flat fee was $4,500 a month. And if you apply that to the $200 an hour that Adam just recently mentioned to us, that's 22 and a half hours a month. That's roughly
an hour a day that we can use the services for. So, you know, I think of tomorrow. Yes. So, I think we need to be very judicious about things we end up sending to him. Um, you know, I I will, you
know, I'll certainly make a first cut at making that determination and if something uh warrants more discussion with the select board, I'll certainly bring it up as well. But I think I have in my files a different use of legal counsel policy than what is
bringing up here. I I this is 2018. Uh yeah, 2021. Yeah. Um and but I haven't gone through everything. So I I looked at what came up here and I thought, "Oh, is this another instance of where policies got
uh the policies that got transferred were not the correct policies?" I'm assuming this came out of the website. Um and so I I wanted to um look at that. Um
so what I will do is send you what I have. It's not a signed policy and so I haven't in other words I have the the signature policy always get saved here. It's not something that would be in my
working stuff and I don't have access to my emails from 2020 to 2023 or whenever I my term ended. Um I don't have access to those with guardian. So based when I became a selectman again, I
was given a new um same address name but different. I can't look at look back at my emails to see what happened. Okay. So people who are copied now. Okay. Go ahead. So I will forward to you guys what I
have. I'd like to compare it to what is um available here in the SharePoint because I read this and I said I think that was changed but I have nothing to say it was or was not
um because I honestly don't know how what happened with the transition of that website and why it was never checked to see what was accurate and what wasn't. Um, and so I'd like to put this um what I would like to see done is
for the staff to understand that they do need to use the form to request legal services before calling town council and that um uh Nelson keeps track of the
funds because I would like to see it that we don't go over the amount per month that we've you've budgeted for this. It would be nice if we could also stack it a little bit so that we have more flexibility at the end of the year. Yes, it would. Um or for when we need
it. Yeah. Uh I don't know. Um I haven't gone through and added up. I'm sure certainly it can be to see what we've spent already from what was budgeted. That's um that would be good to do because we have been using labor council which has
always been an additional charge. Um, so I I just think we need to have an analysis of what we've spent so far, what we have left and what is being um uh what it what it's spent for. We can see from the invoices. That's not a
problem. But it would be good to have like a um a graph or an Excel sheet to say. Yeah. I started going through and they just it became a little bit too much. Yeah. So it but it would be good to start now keeping track going forward
looking at what we've already spent, not necessarily what it's been spent for. Um we can look at the invoices if we're curious about that. Um and then keep, you know, have some idea
of what we are where we are with this and also to review the policy to have an I I'll send you guys out right now. the um um the policy that I have I did I did note and I don't because this is actually something that I'm not sure if
it's currently being followed. It says all boards and commissions must have a vote authorizing request before yes. So if planning is it has to have a vote of the planning board before council can be um used. Yes, that is
correct. And in planning, I remember um that the admin would ask, "Do you want to request town counsel on this matter?" Whether not it's been a formal motion, I
don't remember. Yeah. So, this is this spec specifies specifies. So then that's got to be brought up to each all the board. Well, and I was thinking too for the trash contract stuff at the board of health vote. Um
of the full board. Yeah. The only other thing because I did talk to Adam about this after the town meeting is we I think a lot of time too is spent when there's an inerson meeting because we have it's the travel.
Yeah. Oh yes. So like you know for a lot of those planning meetings and land use meetings just zoom right I think we'll take a huge bit of that off and so at least two hours that wasn't a thing in 2021 so much I
mean it was only becoming a thing and so we might want to adjust the policy to put something maybe maybe saying in less like zoom in less it's really and a question I had I wanted to ask too about this was is what There are our
thoughts on office hours. Um well here depending on what we determine with policy. I like the office hours. I because it was part of the hybrid model. I have tried to use those a lot. Yeah. I've tried to kind of bank my
questions for that half an hour. That's pretty much what I've done unless it's something that can't wait for office hours. Um but most things can. Um and so that's that's I've used them. But
if we are paying separately for office hours um maybe we want to do it um by Zoom as opposed to or is it that important um to have that? It's it's how I've done
my thinking over the past many years to say okay we need to bring this up at bring this up. bring this. I'm good with Zoom myself, but it's up to Well, I'm wondering if we even have them or if we just, you know, if we if there's a, you know,
it's more of a select board, you know, policy that select board members should consider, you know, scheduling occasional meetings with all the questions for the month or whatever it is. Like how how many I haven't used that much. No, no, no.
That I mean I've just used mostly just that half an hour once a month is is enough usually, but Nelson, do you think the departments benefit from those office hours at all or um I think um the land use office has um
used it on a pretty regular basis, but you know, he works handinhand with the planning board. So you probably don't need that all the time. So well there need well the it's the hand in hand piece that's the issue that is
that has to stop because that has been a lot of the use of yeah that was land use was when I was going through things land was and justifiably but I think we maybe have become to rely too heavily on it I have to export this toward
um so maybe we discontinue office hours for the rest of the um beginning October 1st, which is when this I know he's here October 2nd, but those are his September office hours. He requested it because of
it was moved. So because of town meeting, I should ask him. So those were September, which were we were still part of the flat fee. So I assume when he is here on Thursday, we're not going to be charged $200 an hour.
Well, don't assume. I I'm gonna ask him. Ask him. I I would think that it those are his September office hours that he was moving to, but ask him. So, I guess use this while you have if it's true. But yeah, I think moving forward, I
think the office hours probably we can put a pause on it because if we're paying for every minute that he he is essentially assisting us, you know, um we need to be a little bit more judicious about what we use him for. Certainly, if you have a
question or concern, um bring it up to him. Not you don't have to wait for office hours anymore. Um well, you have to bring it to you. um not if you're a select board member but others this one does say this policy I have
here says the select board has to notify town administrator not of the content but just that's a 218 look at what I've just sent Yeah. Um, look at the exceptions
for the board of selectment. So, it's for budget purposes. Was this version ever voted and signed on? I don't know. The one that I just sent you. Yeah, I thought it was. That was my
recollection, but I haven't gone through to um if you can find it. Um at the very least, I can up I can upload the new version versus looking at the version from 2018 if you if the version that you just sent was indeed signed.
Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's from Sabrina was here, so she may be able to help. No, she wasn't here. This was before her time. No, she wasn't. She started 22, I believe. Um, she started in
May of 22, as did Eric Slegel, if I remember right, cuz I had the three years I was a select board member, I had there was a different town administrator every year pretty much. So, it was Jim
Kryler, Ross Perry, and then Eric Sigel. Um, and then I came back and it's now Nelson. So, it there has been very little consistency and so I would have to go through minutes and look, which I haven't. Um, I
I know I looked at this before and thought this is different from what I remember, but I don't remember. Um, I can't say for certain. I have to go back and do the research. So it seems pretty similar. It's just basically saying that
it's more robust. Yeah. A little more detailed, right? It it leaves less to the imagination. Um I have a question. If um where uh Veronica is selectman now, is
she able to go back to her own records? No, I can't. Um I had to what was the question around uh it was there was some public records request. Oh I know. Uh it had to do with
um the uh um so is that automatic? Has um Guardian done that for all past sele? I have no idea. I don't think guardian was in place until I became a select
then it guardian had just started when I became a selectton during co we did not have guardian pro prior to that we had our own people in house who did the um
the IT stuff and so it was the last one I think pardon me bossom yeah was the last person uh that is correct So we had our own it and then guardian came into play right
before I became a selectant I believe. Um right in that time period. Okay. Uh when would you like to discuss this again? The next meeting. Our next meeting. That's the seventh.
That might not be a full ball meeting. Yeah. Oh yeah. No. I I thought um well that one is just for uh bond council correct? Yeah. No, not that meeting. It would be the one later 21st is the next one.
Okay. So October 21st. I guess I guess the question is is is which policy are we working on? I'd like to see the she has but I think that for the purposes of the next month I think we should use the form that
Oh, for sure. and that there should be a vote by a board before town council is approached and that Nelson should be keeping statistics that he can bring forward to us including how much of the budget have we already used for town council and then
what has happened in the three weeks prior to that meeting where do we stand what access has there been and how much have we spent and is that true for the town clerk yeah the town that he used to go through you yes Yes. Yes. Correct.
The clerk goes through you. The clerk has to get permission from that. That's the way it always was. So anyway, okay. But it hasn't been used in the past nine months or whatever.
If you have policies, I guess they should be used um with that then until October 21st. So 4.5 discuss animal inspector vacant position.
So uh I think certainly last budget season when um we were going with the budget the animal inspector um stipen was you know a topic of discussion. We haven't had one in quite a while and you know I think
simply put the the stipen is is not enough for someone to to take it on. Um I've spoken to Mary Lerno who's currently the animal control officer. Um she is willing to do it but um she does
believe that the current rate of $1,200 is simply not enough. Certainly the volume of um properties that she would need to visit um you know the the gas mileage involved, you know, the hours of work. Um it simply doesn't make sense
for someone to take that position on at $1,200 for the year. Um we desperately need the barn book to be updated um and someone to in inspect all those properties. And you know,
I think $2,400 would be a very fair number to get someone in that position. Mary certainly indicated she'd be willing to do it for that amount and nothing less. Um, we've had this discussion before. In
fact, wasn't it moved from 600 to 1,200? Oh, it was even less than that prior. It it was like 200 or 300 in 2022. I guess it was. But even the 1,200 that's being advertised now is But we did that now. We This board did
that. We did up it to 1,200. Yeah, we did. All right. Um but even that is not enough. Um there PEPO pays significantly more. What do they pay? Um I think it's
somewhere around $45,000. Really? Yeah. It's quite a bit. Um, $1,200. I I don't think you're ever going to find someone to do it. And like I said, we desperately need the farm book to be updated. It's been many years since it's
been updated. So, I think it was 2022 and it was John King who was our animal inspector and he didn't reop. So, um, it's something to think about. Um, I think if we
decide to increase the the stipen, um, Mary will will do it. Well, I think if we increase the stipen, we have to we have to post it. I think we can't just say we have somebody for this. They want more money. We're going to give it to them.
No, I I I I think we still need to go. Do we have it posted now? I believe if she has not taken the position since we did the 1,200. Let me just see if it's been posted. I believe we have the posting here.
It's Yeah, it is posted. Yeah, it's for Hunter. Y it's been posted for a long time. Then can we come back to this after we get our contract settled and know what money
we have? because I I know it's only 1,200 more only, but it makes a difference in what we pay our staff. In other words, I want to get our contracts settled and know what we have in the budget
before we start um unless we're getting dinged by the state for not having a an animal inspector in place. Okay. So can we um move that to the
21st? Yeah. And see how we are then. I should have a little bit more clarity by then on you know the state of the various uh you remind me again of our hard stop for the executive. I think uh we should stop no later than
11:15 to give us enough time to discuss an executive session. You have a 12:00 card stop. Yeah. Okay. Um, let me see. Yeah, I think we should go right to 4.6 and we might I might suggest jumping
around to something else after that. So, we can Okay. Um, review discuss community preservation at website information sheet. Um so the assessor's office um has um
drafted up some language for folks to sort of uh it's basically explaining what what the the CPA um sir charges for and how it's calculated. um you know there are folks
that would be exempt from it whether it's uh due to I think age is part of it but there's also a criteria that's just basically based on um income but all that is a detailed in this umformational
um document if you will so um I think um just need to the board just needs to review it if there's any revisions or changes is um then we can make those changes and then um get it posted onto
the website um so um residents uh know what this uh what the CPA sort of charges any input from the board. I mean it looked based on my information to I learned a thing or two when I was
reading through it. So I think it's good. I I think it needs to get up there so that they can start getting the applications. I think the assessor's office start getting applications in and processed. Okay. I'll uh I'll have them post it then.
Do we need a motion for this or are we good? I mean I think we do, right? It's the assessors. Yeah, I don't think is necessary. I'll post it. Thank you. Thank you.
4.7 discussion about open meeting requests. Um I don't know what that was. Well, the last one we got in was for 10 years worth of open mean law public records.
No, they're calling it an open meeting law, but they want minutes. But and my I I missed what this one can does have separate criteria and excuse me apologies but the open
meeting law has different criteria than the public records law regarding minutes but both are required. So whoever made that request I believe used the open meeting law. Yeah I did to in order to require you to respond. I
don't remember what the the request said. I think I read it. I think I haven't read it. It's not I read it. I don't know what we're talking about. Is it an open meeting law request or a public records request? It's an open meaning law request because I haven't received it. It's fall under both.
Yeah. But I'm just saying I haven't received it. I haven't received it either. So I don't know what we're talking about. Um Harrison, I can forward it to all of you if you would like. Right now I'm pulling it up. Would
that be preferred? I I guess it would be good to know what we're talking about. So, uh, yes. I believe it had something to do with um alcohol being served on the town premises, mainly the meeting,
senior center, the senior center meeting hall, council on aging. Oh, there was a request. It was at least 10 years ago. It was by the friends of the library. They wanted to have a fundraiser. I remember this. They wanted to have a fundraiser
um and to serve alcohol and um it was denied and my understanding was that you could not have this is just and why do I know this? I must have been at a meeting because of conservation or I remember
there was there was something there was something about it. It was brought up that it was proposed and then it was too difficult and it went away. Well, the request is for all meeting records regarding that from 2014 to
2024. How is this an open meeting? I have no idea instead of a public record. Um, well, they're they are um using a different MGL to to get the record. It's um I'm going to have Harrison Harrison speak to it. It seems to me that you
just pulled the records from that time. That's not ours. This is not the one I have is just So there there were two uh requests that came in if I may. Okay. Um there's a provision in the open
meeting law that allows for requests for meeting agendas, minutes and the documents referenced in the like the open session uh to be requested for. So that that very narrow MTL um is focused
on just open meeting related records. So I'm happy to answer any questions related to that. We're waiting for input from the um attorney general's office about what other uh rules and regulations are. I did I did ask him because it's very
time consuming because you're talking about you're not you're talking about a time before hybrid meetings so before co Okay. So, the one that we're referencing here, if I can so say this was this was from
Mary Jane and it's um that's curious. Um this is not a request under the public records law and therefore is not subject to public records exemptions, fees or procedures. This is a request for any and all minutes of the board of selectment related to serving of alcoholic beverages and the town meeting
hall at the Lierce C Center from date of opening until September 2022. Because this is a request made under the open meeting law, the board is required to provide minutes within 10 days of this request. expense to the board of selectman
and prevents our staff from doing something productive versus looking for a fishing expedition when we don't have the money, we don't have the funds. We keep getting things that distract us
from doing actual work and productive dealing with productive issues for the community. So, I have no idea why we're getting this now when we're just catching up with everything else to distract us from doing what we need to do. And none of us
were on any board. No. At that time, I know from July of 2020 to September of 2022, there were no requests by the library senior center for anything having to do with alcohol. Prior to that, I remember being in a meeting where this was discussed
for the library um and it was voted down and it was decided not to. I remember Sulissio was on the board at that time. Yeah, you're right. I think it was right after me or either while I was on or right after. I think it was before you
before. I think it was before. I think it was Colin McNab, Sue Lissio, and it might have been Carolyn Smart. And so this would have been this would have been an event of the friends, not even of the employees.
It wasn't the employees, the friends of the library wanted to have a fundraiser. And this happens, for the record, it's never happened at our library, but it happens annually at Peril Groten. There's usually some sort of fundraiser event, wine tasting thing. So this is
not an unusual question might be able to answer that is Carolyn Sers come to think of it. I mean she was she's on she was on the endowment for the library um
Clement Clement I think it was before Karen Clement even was involved with the library so much. Um Caroline Sers is not in town anymore. No she is not. Um but it was but she was the endowment.
So the and this would be even more than 10 years because the library senior centers 15 years. It it was in the 2013 2014 time period would be my guess. There be a file on it there.
Alcohol licensing request. How is this an open meeting law request only that Mary Jane doesn't want to pay for public records? No, I mean that's I'm I'm just open meeting law request.
Um anyway, that's what that is and we're looking into it. I I don't have a clear answer. It's I thought that uh Sabrina came up with three minutes and asked for an extension
because that was all from way back when. Oh, so she did find the minutes. She found something, but it wasn't through 2024, which there probably is nothing, but you still have to pay for staff time to do that. Uh, I believe Sabrina did request an
extension. She did. She requested an extension. It's absurd in my opinion. Um, okay. So, that's where we are on that. Um, thank you, Harrison.
There were two here. Yeah. Um, so I just looked at the second one that he sent or is it the first one? I don't know. I looked at the one about I'm I'm happy to address any questions that you have. The the two um one of
them was just for one set of minutes that you had on your agenda today. Um, one was the larger one that I believe was the bigger part of the discussion. So those were the two that came in for open meeting law request. I to answer kind of the question that posed um how
is it open meeting law as opposed to public records request I think it really just is because of the the narrow scope of the open meeting law it has to do with committing. So that's the distinction. Well here's the thing. If it's open meeting law, I thought that if you saw a
violation, you had like 30 days from when the meeting was to to flag it, that you couldn't flag it 10 years later. Well, that's correct. And it's not a violation that's before you. It there's a a certain provision under the open meeting law that allows requests for
these meeting documents be made. So, it's not a violation and it's not alleging a violation. It's just a a request for information. So, in your opinion, can you expect that then we're going to be getting requests for information under the open meeting law going forward in order to circumvent the
cost that could happen under the public records request? I mean, perhaps, but the the thing is you could deny those if they start to get if there's scope creep, so to speak. So, if someone asks for something that wasn't discussed in an open meeting,
then it's not subject to the open meeting laws request procedure. Um, I I think this is a a fine line here, Harrison, that we're walking. Harrison, um, Sabrina made a request. Was her request granted?
U, we we haven't heard regarding um any extension um, regarding that. And I've also, like I said, I I I put a call into the attorney general, so we'll see um what feedback we get regarding that. I'm sure we're not the only town that's stopping these. Um so, we'll we'll see
what um the attorney general's office has for um guidance and feedback regarding this. I know that she originally requested a a scope to narrow the scope to be more specific so that the
information could be found and that was denied. Is that correct? Um yeah, there there was a request and that was sent in um and the the scope um was there there was no narrowing and I think part of it um part of the reason was you know as demonstrated by the
board's discussion you know the we don't know the no one knows exactly when this discussion happened we it seems that we know that there was a discussion at some point um and so I think that's why the scope just wasn't able to be narrowed
I I would like to say too that I there's nothing that prevents someone from going through all the minutes themselves to find the information that they would like. There's there's nothing that prevents records. And in this circumstance, are we
required to go through it ourselves or just simply allow them to go through it themselves, which they're allowed to do anyway? So, I would just I would seek clarification on that. Are you seeking clarification on that, Harrison? I would I my clarification
question is are we required to go through them ourselves in search of that piece of information or simply supply them to the individual for them to go through to find that information. I don't think that the town is required to know and it's just like under the
public records law the town isn't required to do research. Um the way the request was phrased is maybe so that if they if these documents were digital and we could search, you know, it would be easier. But um if they aren't digital, I I don't see why just simply providing
access to those records so this individual could look through them um would be disallowed. Um I I don't think that the town has to take on that role. So we can't afford to actually. I I mean my I would I would recommend that we provide access to the meeting minutes
from the opening of the library senior center in what is it 2012 to whomever is requesting them and they can go through the meeting minutes of the select board and see right what they want I mean I think that
that's available to them however now I mean I don't think it's so is that a recommendation that's I mean that's what That would be my recommendation be barring a notice that we're required to look through them ourselves, right,
to find that information. Okay. Do you want to make that motion? I move that we provide access to the meeting minutes as requested in the open meeting law. Um I don't even know how to phrase this. Um,
I would I would move that we provide access to the meeting minutes as stated or requested on that date from the opening of the library senior center until September 2023
for research into a discussion. Is there a second? Veronica Cal second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Roll call vote. Veronica Cal I Good Gich I and Laura Shiffron I. Thank you for the
discussion. Um I'll move 4.8 next time. Thank you. 4.9 Oh, that's me. Um okay, we have a little
uh apology. uh we didn't get posted in time last week and we then moved it to today at 5 which I inadvertently forgot that I already had a commitment
and so I um asked uh Harrison I asked TCAM if we could have Friday the 6th and which we will be on Zoom now from now on uh during those meetings so that everybody can see What's going on?
You told him on this Friday. This Friday. It's actually the 3. At at 6. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. But you said you said No, at six. Okay. Sorry. Um, but on on another note, one of the
things that we're we have talked about before and are going through during this process is getting the word out. um getting the word out to the public. So um we are going to start with TCAM
and I've mentioned this before snippets with uh 10 to 20 minutes depending on departments with department heads and filming them giving descriptions of what their departments do and it'll be on a
playlist for towns and I was in talking to the town clerk the other day saying that we were going to do that and uh would they participate. I've talked to a number of department heads myself personally inviting them to do that. Um
not all of them are excited but they've done it in other towns and we'll do it again for towns in um so that will start next Tuesday and we'll start filming here in the chambers.
I'll report at the next meeting on the um if not the 7th on the 21st regarding our forms committee. Okay. Update. This is moved.
[Music] Discuss. Oh, okay. Discuss results of the special town meeting. Nelson, could you do that, please? Uh, sure. Um, so, uh, I the big, um, ticket items that
were, uh, passed were the META Communities Act, which I am, I just want to applaud everyone from the planning board, MRPC. Um, you know, certainly did a great job. Yep. Uh, it was many years of hard work for your support.
Um, you know, I thought it would be um more controversial than it was because you hear stories from neighboring communities where um the voters voted down then they are threatened to be um sued by the state. Some cities and towns
have actually sued the state. So, you know, a lot of bad publicity that you see on the the newspapers sued and lost. Um yeah. Um so, you know, I was certainly worried that we were potentially have money to sue them. Well, we were certainly heading down, you know, a path
of that sort, but I was, you know, really, um, happy to see that, um, the voters did vote that in in the affirmative. So, um, you know, and we have every indication that the AG's office will accept, um, the the warrant
article language because it was already vetted by them prior um, and, you know, with with Adam's assistance as well. So, I'm really happy that um all went through um the um tableabling of the uh warrant
article that town council prepared for the for the historic district commission. Yes. Um it was unfortunate that the voters didn't really get to even vote on the article itself.
It was just uh tableabling it and then I think the second vote was to bring back which that didn't pass either. So again, you know, I'm I'm kind of disappointed that the voters didn't get a chance to vote on the actual article itself.
That will have to come back. I just want to ask because there was no discussion really on this. Right. Um my understanding was that article provided enforcement for historic district commission decisions. Yes, it did. Does that mean that pretty much doesn't
matter what there is no enforcement for historic district commission decisions? So if the historic district commission makes a decision now and it isn't followed, there's no way to enforce it. So pretty much anything goes. Is that
right? I spoke to Adam about this and he said I I this is presented with the historic commission having the authority along with the building inspector. Right.
Okay. Now there isn't any. So there is no enforcement for historic district. I'm not sure what they're going to do. They asked further I think the reason was they asked to further discuss it or look into it but fee structure Mary J. fee structure.
Nobody had spoken to the historic district commission about this article. This came in I think from she was in a public hearing that but that that's not the same as talking to her about an article on the Tom Warren. They had not no one who
it was it was stated in the zoning board meeting but that's not the and they were there but no nobody that there was nothing about what present here's the article. What do you think? Nobody discussed the article going on a time meeting warrant
with the HDC. So, they didn't know what it was about. I guess we're going to discuss it then. They need the discussion. Yeah. And maybe Tom Council explaining what the legal definition of that. But to my point, there is currently no enforcement for HDC decisions.
HDC has authority on their own. Do they? In order to get a building permit in the historic district, you must have a certificate of appropriateness. But if you choose not to, but they don't give the permits, but the building it's the building
department still can't give a permit without it. That's already in the law. That's not that an enforcement issue. He has enforcement on building on if I Okay. Okay. I don't want to make this a long thing. We have other things to do.
Town council recommends He recommended this language. It doesn't mean that it's a free-for-all for the historic district. No, people people living it. It's not a free-for-all for everybody. It kind of sounded like it, but anyway. Okay.
Hopefully, it gets resolved and they understand it. I'm going to start building my own. Um because it it was it it was stated many times. We didn't get to state anything at town meeting. We the town didn't get
to speak about it. If it had been explained and which was explained at the zoning board hearing that this is typical language in all cities and towns because there's nobody at the state that's going to come in and
issue permits for the historic district meeting. You're on the HBC. So it was never discussed at your meeting. I can't say it was never discussed. It wasn't. Well, anyway. Okay, let's go on. That
was just that will come back an aside. Yes. Um and that that would be about it, right? And only one thing failed. What? The citizen petition didn't pass. Um I forgot I don't have my notes with me.
the one about adopting the mass journal law for us to um mail out. Yeah. Oh, that failed as well. That failed as well. Yeah. Because we don't have the money. Not that it wasn't a good thing, but we don't have the money. And I do I do think something that may have been missing is I think all of us
would like it. We just don't have the money right now. Yeah. And and specifically people who were saying we need to communicate more. We are limited in what we can say because of and this would have allowed for a yes and no statement whereas the town cannot make a yes and no statement.
We can just give information. Okay. So I just want to quickly say because we have one minute is the board okay with the rest. Right. No we don't. 11:15. 115.
Oh I'm sorry. Half an hour ahead. Okay. Okay. Um, I apologize. It's okay. We're jumping around today. 4.12 highways request to increase plow
contractor rates for upcoming winter. Why do I think we had this discussion? We started it. So, um, the highway superintendent, uh, it's in the SharePoint, um, updated the memo with what they thought the increase
would be. Um if the uh the plow rates were increased as well, he includ basically based on previous years it had 10,000 to the snow and ice budget. comments from the board.
Well, I appreciate the um the update, but I will again say I I can't support increasing rates when we are um I understand plowing roads is public
safety, but we have patrolman not um uh they're operating without a contract right now And we've asked for uh decreases in salaries from the fire department as well. And I just can't do
it. I I guess we hire at the rate that we've hired at. And if it if we don't get contractors to do it, then the roads get plowed when the roads get plowed. Um, and
it's important and I've always voted for it in the past, but I cannot support it at this point. Yeah. Um, so I actually stopped in at the highway department and Jimmy wasn't there, but I talked to Danielle about just because they're, you know, what
other towns are charging if they think that we're actually going to get the contracts if we don't move. And they do not from my understanding. And and so and I my concern is that our frustration
with the process that happened for last year and the possibility of it happening in the future, the current situation is we like we will not be able to plow our roads as we have in the past and
possibly unless we offer this. And I understand that our employees are suffering right now from not having enough funds. I'm not denying that at all. But this is because it's contracted, it's market rate. And just like Adam had to increase his fees, I
consider this to be a pretty similar thing where technically it's really hard to not if we had a fully staffed highway department, which we don't right now either. We're down two people. You know, we wouldn't need to have those contractors, but we don't. So we rely on them.
No, we've always needed the contractor. Exactly. Yeah. PEP doesn't have contractors. That's my point. Like Prols don't rely on contractors. They have them part of their staff. And maybe that's something we look to if we're combining possibly cemeteries and stuff and then we can get cross training and
all that stuff. Yeah. But that's long term and I just I worry that because of what happened last year that we don't know what will happen next year with free cash, right? I would hope that what happened this year didn't happen. that we're making the decision based on that instead of and I I know it's I'm not I'm
not speaking for anybody else. Pepper has more money. Pepper has more employees. But so Ashby pays more. Ashby pays more. Westminster pays more. Lunenburgg pays more. All of our surrounding towns pay more. But no, but they they're paying more per
hour than even with our increase we would. So it it comes a point where if you want the service, you have to pay for it. We have a town who twice in within four months voted for no
override. If you don't have the money, you can't have the service. And we don't have the money right now. And that's the way it works. I would prefer to hire both open positions in
the highway department so that we would have more staff on hand for plowing than to increase the rates for outside plow guides. That's just me. And people need to understand that they
may need the roads will get plowed or it'll melt, but they have to stay home a little bit longer on a snow day than maybe they would otherwise. The concern I have here, and again, I'm just speaking for myself, is that if we
look at free cash, we won't have the number until. Is there any indication that our free cash is going to be significantly less than previous years? Even though we're starting lower, we we have estimates. I think last year's free cash was around
low 600s, like 625. Um I think um I still don't have the the numbers yet from the town accountant, but I think that might be a stretch because we have the properties that we sold. Correct. We do. And combined with the end of last year
closing out FI25. Yeah. together possibly around six. I mean, again, I'm not crystal balling. I'm just Yeah, I just think yeah, free cash alone. Um I again, I'm not 100% sure because the
town council has is still finalizing the numbers and last year's snow and ice number. I think we we gave 290 from free cash the snow and ice and then we also took funds from the money that the finance committee had. We
took 20,000 out of there from Yeah, it was for Snowise because we didn't have enough in the free cash account and we had to go to the final funds from them. That's because the 200 that was taken
out for school. Well, that contributed to it, but um I I just can't pay over 5% more for then. It's not that we're not paying contractors. We are.
Oh, yeah. I'm not doing that. And I just can't increase it by five and a half% when we have asked everybody to take a decrease. I just can't do it. That's my own thing. I can't do it. It's
not like we're saying don't hire contractors. I just cannot increase that by over 5% when we aren't even giving giving our
police and an an increase at all in this fiscal year at this point because we are out. I respect that. I I I I see it as a little bit of two different things because we rely on something that we that we can't control the price of just like legal counsel. We can't control what they charge in some
regards, but we can say let's keep track of it. Let's hold it back and let and so we're doing Yeah. Oh, yeah. I agree. I agree with I'd rather see another employee.
Yeah. But that's not happening for that. That's a long-term plan, right? We're not we're not hiring someone to plow another spend the money for contractors that will cost us more than an employee would for two years. Well, but then there's also additional
equipment because these people they have equipment. We have we have the highway department. We have two plow sanders from two years ago and this year a new plow. So, we have the equipment. it. We just don't
have um when we have a large PL, we just have to be a little more patient in town with the roads. Because my other concern about that is is that we have a really large senior population and that's when the calls go
up because those people can't that's there. People who would be able to get themselves to a doctor in those situations, it's harder for them. So because because they're less likely to be able to clear their driveways and less likely to be able to drive in those conditions.
They can clear their driveways. It's the roads that we're talking about, but some of them it's it's hard to get out and that's and calls go up during snow that calls go up because people can't get themselves to those doctor's appointments. So that's
just my thoughts. Okay. Okay. I I appreciate it. I think we can't move forward on it. We We probably need to take a vote though, right? I think that there's some motion that happens.
Um I move to accept the highways request to increase plow contractor rates for the upcoming winter. Veronica Ke second discussion hearing none call vote Veronica Keel nobody
know 413 creation of financial policy review committee Nelson where are we um September got a kind of got uh you know um
really busy so I haven't had time to get that committee together. I certainly um I think I actually have a meeting with at least one member of finance committee tomorrow. I think Val, you you were
invited as well. Um they wanted to I I couldn't tell if they wanted to change the process or some forms. I couldn't really um get um a clarification from them, but I think with tomorrow's meeting, um I'll I'll kind of figure out
what their concerns might be for the upcoming budget season. Um I certainly still need to meet internally with the um assessor, the treasurer, as well as the town accountant on, you know, just start
having meetings of, you know, how the budget's going to look like for next year. just get their input on, you know, you know, local receipts, um, you know, debt service, you know, you know, assessing things like that, you know, that that all is part of the the
background, um, planning, you know, for, um, for what about the software and the agreement that we don't have with one laptop and well, so the the budgeting software um, I I I think I mentioned this uh earlier
this summer. I I got a presentation from um Clare Gov. Um you know, they they provided us with a quote. Um it's certainly not a small amount of money. So, uh, you know, if we were to consider it, it would have to be at a some sort
of town meeting and and only after we we've had certified free cash to, you know, put um the money towards it or and maybe um put it into the budget year after year because it is not just a one-time expense. It's an ongoing expense. So,
that's something to consider as well. there is a upfront cost for clear valve to you know um update um um you know I thought we were in agreement that we should all be on the same page I think that's the purpose of it seemed
like fin wanted to change something that they bring to the departments when I was looking through their agenda and I recommended that they meet with Nelson and I volunteered to meet because we have a process we do have a process
that and I just want to make sure we're all following that process and if if they want to do something different, we can propose to do something different. We just need to all and and I think part of the problem is is I think with all the turnover, I don't think the process has been followed every year. I
understand that. But at the very least, we have to start with the process that we have online. It's a budget policy and go from there. Um, and I I agree with that. Going back to the budgeting software,
um, does Vadar have a budgeting piece in it? Something that we already have? Is it available to us already? Um, and it's just a, you know, a bit that needs to be turned on
for us to have access to that. I don't know. I mean, I really don't know. But I I am not wedded to clear gov. It's just that that was what we had looked at way back when. Um I think it's important that we have budgeting software that it
is not just um a volunteer putting together something on Excel. I think that that's not the way to go. Um I I think we need something that all the departments use
that everybody can look at and that um that projects out for x number of years and if vadar provides that then let's look at that there there could be other suggestions
from the finance team the town's finance team are our paid staff um they may have suggestions. So um I will talk to them and I'll ask about um the budget if there's some sort of
budget module uh within Vader that we can make use of. Um I will say clear gov is they are the leader in municipal budgeting software. Pepper uses it. I don't think Ashby does, but you know, a
lot of communities use clear gov and they are the industry standard and you know it works um and it's very helpful and everything I've heard is um it's it's worth the money and and I think that it would having
some budgeting software would allow the process to roll more smoothly the process that we do have in place. I mean right here so just like just some overview things. So early to midfall town's financial staff updates five-year financial forecast. So right off the
bat, that's like now. Yes, exactly. Which is why So can we have a report on 1021 on where we are in the process, the budget process with the finance team. So I just put that to to move to that.
And I would want in November to have a meeting with Fincom, the town's finance team and select it says information selectment finance committee town representatives D financial summit early November. Yeah. So I would want that. Um and so
we've got to start focusing on that. Okay. Okay. Um so is that possible? stop you. Um I see William Solomon on. Yep. He is the 417. I'd like to go to that and make sure we have that done today, please.
Right. So um Bill, uh are you um are you on? I am. Thank you. So, uh, my my daughter had her driving test today and I I somehow I didn't when I remembered uh to to get in, I couldn't get in, so I apologize, but I'm back in my home
office now. Thank you. Okay, you're right on time. Good. Well, thanks so much. It's nice to be here. I'll be a lot of work obviously since you're here at 11 now still. So, let me be quick. Uh, you know, I I've worked with the town before, as you may know, it was 20 years ago and very, very
successful license, huge fight with Comcast, big fight. Um, uh, and we prevailed and then we began the access program and got excellent funding. So, where we are now is met with Nelson uh, uh, and spoke with
Nelson a number of times. We met with the Comcast government affairs representative um Pat Shurns. Uh no one better than Pat Shurns. Uh and uh we did a capital plan.
Dave uh access director has uh worked very closely with us. Uh and the capital plan uh was was done by a company called OERS. They do it at no cost. Uh uh Danielle, I'm just forgetting Daniel's
last last name. Works with the Danielle Duca. Uh works with a guy Gary Pink. We got the capital plan. It's excellent. If if I can share the screen, I will. When I got that plan, I just had one thought on some of the timing of the of the funding and just wanted to see if uh if
uh if the timing could be tweaked uh consistent with needs and reality and it could be. So Danielle actually was going to provide that. I was surprised she hadn't. And so, um, when I, uh, and I was, I was going to call her at sometime this week, uh, to ask where she was, and
she somehow thought she was going to hear from Dave, which was didn't need to happen. So, let me put the capital plan on. That's important because what Pat Shern basically said is he went to the people in Comcast who have to approve the funding we were asking for. Uh, and
it's getting pushed back. You know, the cable world is changing. uh and uh and needed as I I said the town would provide a capital plan to help make his case to Comcast, his company, uh for the
funding, the peg capital funding we were looking for. That's the largest issue. The rest of the license will write itself given what I write and what I do with Comcast. Uh and that's that's that's you know, no better license in the Commonwealth. So, let me if you if I
could share. Let me put it on here. Has sharing. Sharing. Uh, see, has to be given the ability to share. Dave. Yeah, it looks like it's Let me see if
it's doing it. Let's see. Dave, does he have the ability to share? Yes, I do. Here goes. All right. So, let's make this a little bigger. Uh, let's see. Is it coming up? I said
the right thing. Let's see. Let me stop again and let me see if I can get something larger. Um, okay. Here we go. So, uh, very detailed Danielle. Uh, excellent what she does.
Worked very closely with with Dave. uh uh Finella Finella uh on the capital plant. So we have different categories. We have a portable production system year one. I just give you those the
details as you can see cost $94,000 plus uh a uh an upgrade on video and demand uh live streaming 5,700. Uh a year two upgrade on that. the town
hall uh uh upgrade microphones, other equipment, speakers, $2,448. Uh portable equipment upgrade year two streaming equipment regional high school year two studio setup TCAM very detailed
all the equipment you need, switchers, mixers, microphones. Uh that's 32,000. Town Hall great meeting room year four 42,000 portable gear year four editing system
year five uh board chambers year five uh town hall meeting room year five replacement of the streaming equipment year six portable book gear year 7
editing system year 7 total of $38,000 now we have a pen capital number we can provide to to Comcast. That's a strong number. Uh and again, Pat Shern felt if he can to to push it over the line, uh
he would need as we initially said we would provide a a capital plan. So, uh I'm going I now have this um uh I'm going to send it to Patren, check with Dave, uh see if there's any final
tweaks. Send it to Pat. If if it if it all works, send it to Pat Shurns and see if Pat make the arguments again to Pat and see if he can get the capital number we would like to have. We were looking for a set dollar number. Comcast
nowadays likes to go to a per subscriber number. I'd rather not do that even though they would make that number bigger. uh we I would be open to uh a set dollar number and a percentage of gross revenue for capital a mixed standard where you get a certain set
amount each year for 10 years and you get a percentage of their gross revenue. So I I you know hopefully Bill can you hear me? Matt will be able to get that number back and see what he can do. Uh we think it's a good number because it's a great program in towns and uh and get that
back you know as early as later next week. Uh once we agree on that number, I can write the license fairly quickly. So I would be hoping that we would uh uh get get the I'll take a look at the date of the license again, but have the
license signed at the very latest at the the be beginning of November. And let me take a look at the date. I apologize. Contract is end. Bill, can you hear me? Yes. Uh so I believe the contract expires at the end of October and you
know this contract does need um select board approval. The next scheduled select board meeting is October 21st. Um we will certainly have an autocycle meeting if it comes down to the wire to get it signed. But uh you
know if at all possible we should shoot to have it ready to be reviewed and signed. Yeah I I didn't have the license before me. Uh that's the date that I'm gonna shoot for. I'll let Pat know that. I think what we should do is regardless of
where we are, we we we need to have we should have a hearing. Uh it's a little different than a hearing where like everything is all done. So my recommendation would be that we advertise for a hearing. And I think I have another meeting that night, but let me take a look. One sec. I can always
join by Zoom. I guess I like to do in person. Uh the 21st board hearing. Let's take a look. Have a public meeting to declare the contract. Yeah. Yeah. Um Bill, uh the select board has a hard
stop to adjourn this meeting at 11:15. And we I'm all done. What I would suggest is that we we uh advertise a hearing for the 21st. We'll have that hearing. Even if we're not done, we'll go over the license, let people uh comment uh and if
we're and that creates, as you said, a goal to for Comcast. So, my recommendation would be uh together with with the select board staff and Nelson, we uh advertise a hearing for the 21st on the renewal and uh as soon as I know, you know, I'll I'll be in touch with
Nelson moment by moment uh uh as as this proceeds from from here. Okay. We'll uh we'll work on that behind the scenes. Thank you, Bill. Good. Thank you. Bye-bye. Good luck. Y I think we should uh in the interest of time uh wrap up everything should get
tabled till the next meeting. Yeah, I agree. Um that uh are we good with the public hearing for 700 p.m. on the 21st? hopefully get all of our preliminaries out of the way and then have that
you guys can start your meeting earlier in the day two instead of six. You know, get some stuff done. Do it at 5. I'm good. Yeah. 5:00. It's a Tuesday, correct? Y. Yeah, I had six. I will make that at 5
and hearing at 7. We should be able to get a lot of people after dinner if they want to uh be a part of that. So, uh, get that posted as soon as possible for public input. Um,
all right. So, everything else on here, 4:15, 416, uh, will be moved to the 21st. We'll try to do emergency updates only.
on the 7th. I will not be here on the seventh. You're not here on the seventh. So that'll be emergency only. We'll deal with whatever we need to deal with. And I thought it was just for the um bond renewal. I'm just letting you know if something
comes up that we need to address, has to be handled. Okay. Nelson, I'll be you can contact me if you what I may put. So Okay. Okay. Um, can I say something about the Comcast thing
just very quickly? I think we need to um look at the TCAM agreement and see if after Comcast is renewed if there are any changes that need to happen in the town's agreement with TCAM. Okay. Actually, that's another contract uh that's about to expire that
it was handinand with the two. So, and this gentleman was referred by Adam. Yeah, that's okay. I just It's just that I want to look at the TK. And I did I I was with them at the
meeting where we had the person who came in to do the capital plan. So, that's okay. And and I did think she was good. Um let me just say then the next meeting
uh meetings are October 7th and October 20 excuse me at at 5:30 on the 7th of October 21st. Now oh it's 5:30. I had 5:15. I don't know
why I um I'm reading what's on here. And let me just see. 5:30 and and 5:00 pm for the 21st. I didn't have a time. So 5:30 for the
7th and 5:00 p.m. Now for the 21st. Oh. Uh 5.5, please. Um I move that we review and sign payroll and bills payable ordinance out of session. We're honor second. Okay.
Any discussion? Roll call vote. Veronica I Gich I Laura Shiffron I. Six 6.1 uh Laura Shiffron moves I move to enter into
I move at 11:30 I move to enter into executive session executive session at 11 at 11 13 and adjourned from executive session
pursuant to open meeting law chapter 3A section 21 A3 to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining if an open meeting may have detrimental effect on the
bargaining position of the public body and the chair. So declares IO shifin do declare and this is in reference to clerical union, supervisors union, highway water union, police union, fire
union. Is there a second? A second. Roll call vote. Veronica Cal I. Tyler Gage I. And Laura Shiffren I. We will adjourn
the public general meeting at 11:15 a.m. And I'm Is there a motion to adjourn the general meeting
at 11:15? Do it in executive session. I thought we were adjourning in from executive from ex. So, it wouldn't be at 11:15. It would be Oh, whatever. At the end of executive session. Okay. Sorry about that. Okay. We have a second. Is there a roll
call vote to go into executive session? Yeah, we just did that. Yes. Okay. A second. Valerie seconded the motion. And it was a roll call vote. We stated
our names and voted.