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Um, I'd like to call the meeting of the select board to order for June 3rd, 2026 at 5:00 p.m. Roll call from here. Sarah Logan here. Valerie Gage here. And um, if you join me in the

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pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'd like to thank all of our veterans as well as our military both here and

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abroad. All of our first responders, all of our staff, and all of our elected and appointed officials and their families for helping to make our community a better place to live. Thank you. Thank you, Lori. And I'd like to announce that

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the meeting is being recorded and uploaded to YouTube. Is there anyone else recording? None being heard. So, our agenda for tonight number three is just interviews for two child administrator candidates at 5:00 p.m. and Alexander Lauder at 6

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p.m. followed by some deliberation by us. Any questions? Wonderful. So, I guess um I am going to go invite Mr. Ne in and then we can get started with the interviews and I'll make a little note for start.

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>> Thank you. Ready? >> We live streaming, too. >> Even better. >> Oh, yeah. And being recorded? >> Even better. Do >> you guys need copies of my resume? You have all of that? >> We have it. We came prepared always.

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>> We're select board of people. Okay. I'm going to grab it in there. >> Sure. >> Mr. Me today. I think you know all of us. Um I'm just going to start off with a little something and then we'll get to >> Sure. So um I just like to thank first of all

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the screening committee and the candidates for their time um invested in the application and screening process and for their continued commitment to public service committee candidates like um it's not lost on any of us that the process of applying and selecting a town administrator is a labor intensive

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process for candidates the screening committee and the select board. Everyone we interviewed is an outstanding parent and ultimately um our decision will be based on who you feel is best fit for the needs of our community at this time. Um I think for both interviews we're going to start by allowing the

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candidates to make a brief fivem minute introductory statement about themselves and then we have a series of questions. We're basically just going to go around the room that we've prepared um to allow everybody to highlight themselves. Um, we'll end by allowing the candidates to add anything that they have feel we may

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have missed or um questions that they have for the board. Um, at the end um I'll ask the board if there are any follow-up questions after um a has had a chance for an initial response and then um just avoid side conversations and pop up.

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>> Sure. Um well, I'm Kieran Mian. I think you guys know me pretty well for those sitting at home or those um in the room here. Um, I've been your interim town administrator since about the end of December, start of January. Um, so it's been a really, uh, fun and sort of

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interesting almost 6 months plus or so. Um, you know, I think Townsen's in a really unique place where, um, it's a town of about 10,000 people. Um, you have a rural freight corridor. you have um a lot of really invested residents in

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the town that um like many communities in Massachusetts, you know, take pride in volunteerism. You know, Memorial Day, different events in town, the the church, the library, um the school system, um which reminds me a lot of where I'm from, which is I grew up in a

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really small town in Connecticut. It's about 4,000 people now. It's part of three towns as a regional school system. Um my parents were both municipal servants. My mom was an English teacher um all through high school. I actually had her as a teacher which was really fun in high school, a little awkward at times, but um you know, my father comes

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from city development. Um he's been a mayor, you know, first selectman in our town. Um and with my three brothers and I, it was always sort of an adventure of, you know, where our parents are and whether we get into trouble and they're going to hear about it before we're going to get people to tell them about

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it. Um which is part of being one of four boys growing up in a small town. Um, after finishing my time in high school down in Chester, I went to St. Michael's College in Vermont. Um, it's a small Catholic college in Vermont, about 2,000 students. Um, there I participated

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in soccer with the team. It's a division 2 school. Um, also participated in the, um, student commerce, if you will, I guess the student association where I was a secretary of finance, helped manage, you know, all the different clubs and things like that and campaigns that go on campus. Um and that sort of

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led me to Boston where um you know I was able to join a small tech company. Um unfortunately in 2008 2009 they folded like many companies did during that time the economic recession. Um where I was laid off for a little little time about four or five months and I ended up uh

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stumbling into a wonderful opportunity at Harvard Business School. Um I spent almost a decade at Harvard. um started off as a staff administrator, ended up as a a manager there, managing the entire MBA program for all um MBA students um as well as doctoral students

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at Harvard. Um that encompasses managing everything from the day-to-day operations of hey, we have a pipe that bursts to what are we doing for student life? Um how are we managing through crisis? You know, the Boston Marathon bombing happened while I was working at Harvard Business School. We actually

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lost a staff member um in that incident. Um so while we're you know grieving as a group um as a department operations department we're still realizing we have to provide services to our students to our faculty to those that make you know that campus their home as a residential

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campus. Um so it's not to say um it wasn't a wonderful place to work but it's also a place full of diversity even though it's you know Harvard you know people always have these connotations when you go to these big schools. Um, I was lucky enough to take advantage of

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some programming there, which is when you're a staff member, you can be getting your full graduate degree. Um, I took that opportunity. Um, graduated from Harvard University with a master's degree, which is a nice, um, sort of assemblance of, you know, working, going

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to school, having a personal life, and sort of juggling all that in between. Um, you know, I spent again just about 10 years there. ended up um realizing that commute from Dunville, Massachusetts was arduous. It was almost two hours each way and um found an opportunity at Brotten School, which is

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just a neighboring community this way. Um where I was their database administrator for the admissions department. Um Brontton School, fantastic, you know, private organization in the area. Um they have, you know, wonderful students from all different parts of the world. Um varying levels of income, you know, you know,

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New England boarding school kind of life. Um but they did um offer me an opportunity to learn a new skill. Spent about five years there for uh finishing a project for them. It was a database implementation project which I really had my hands on from the start. Um and then finished that project. Spent some

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more time on real estate. Um which is sort of a side hobby of my own. Um which I really enjoy and I know is um really interesting in sort of the southern New Hampshire northern Massachusetts region. Um and then saw that Townsen had a grant opportunity open. Um, I love municipal

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work. You know, I just finished my sixth year as a selectman in Dunville. Um, I didn't rerun just after six years and four or five years of previous service. I said, I think a decade is pretty good to leave your print on a town. Um, so, you know, took the opportunity to work

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for Townsen. Um, you know, and then in the fall, you guys had your MBTA community zoning, uh, meeting, which, um, I had a little hand in terms of help sharing with the town what would happen if you didn't pass MBTA zoning, you know, community bylaw. And it was like a little chart that I think sort of

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highlighted the grants you would lose. And that was my job at the time. So, it was a little vested interest. Um, and I think it helped sort of demonstrate to folks the importance of the MBTA zoning. And I don't know if I necessarily agree with all of its aspects. I understand

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its purpose. Um, but more importantly for towns in was what happens if we lose those grants. Um, I just finished a grant this afternoon for the town um, as your interim town administrator and it's going to help create the bridge design for the Brooklyn Street Pedestrian

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bridge. And that's a grant that could be awarded to the town for a two-year design and permitting project that's worth about $300,000. Um, so I think you know the grant and the the grant role in the town's really important. Um, and it sort of I think

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opened the doorway for me to help sort of see what your previous town administrator had going on and sort of work hand in hand inand with them at times. Um, and then you guys took a chance on me and I'm very appreciative of the opportunity to um, work with your town, work with your employees, work

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with your residents and sort of see where things go from here. Thank you so much. Are you guys started, Lori? >> Yeah. >> Few tidbits in there that I didn't know yet. >> It's like keeping people. >> Not surprised. Not surprised, though.

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>> Um, yeah. So, I get to go first. What aspects of your municipal leadership experience have have prepared you to guide a town like Townsen through current challenges? And how would you apply that experience here?

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Fun question. So, I've quite literally been in the very seats that you guys have been in before for three town administrators, having laid one off, um, hired two and then re, you know, extended a contract of a third. Um, so it's a really challenging role to

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be the executive branch of the town. um you know the the role of the town administrator is to execute the policies that select board sets with the residents and I think you know that presents challenges from day to day because you never know on a dayto-day if the air conditioning is not going to

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work in the building and what that does to employees while they're trying to enact the policies that the select board have you know charged on them from the residents at town meeting at you know different conversations um so I think I can you know fully say I I empathy iz

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for some of the challenges that are in front of towns right now. Um you have a community that is um very loyal to the town, very fiscally responsible and that presents challenges in our world where the costs of utilities are, you know, 9

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10% and your tax levy can only increase 2 and a half%. Um and I think it's kind of disingenuous to say over time that we're just going to, you know, do more with less. At some point you can't. And I think towns and sort of um I'm going

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to steal a thought from one of your one of your leaders here. Uh what side of the fence is Townsen on right now and how do we move forward in a positive way rather than fall into the ether and sort of be dealing with really negative consequences and a lack of forward

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motion. Um so I think kind of a long-winded answer, but it's an opportunity for the town to kind of stabilize. And you heard me say it last night, like I kind of like the manila folder version of life. Kind of bland and we just we function. We're stable and we you do do

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what we can with the resources we have and you know not overextend ourselves more than we have to. >> All right, Kieran. Um, given the turnover Townsen has experienced in the town administrator's office in recent years, what would you do to establish

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credibility, strengthen relationships and employees and elected officials, and rebuild public trust? >> Yeah, public trust is tricky. Um, I'm not a huge Facebook person, but I know the power of social media and what it means to different folks, especially because it's so accessible. Whether

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you're in the car sitting at the traffic light and you're quickly looking at Instagram or Facebook or it's, you know, you're just catching up on YouTube and you're watching a someone who's got a video of a meeting up or it's the town's own TCAN function. Um, so I think building credibility is it's very

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incremental. Um, for me, it it starts with you start with your staff and it's the same message and it's really dull. It's the same thing over and over again. Um, I've heard from a member of staff just this past week, you know, hey, good luck. Good luck on the interview. We hope you do great. We'd love to see you

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stay, which is a tremendous compliment, but that trust has been built from being the same person since they met me last March. And I don't think wavering, you know, or being, you know, Dr. Jackal and Hyde, like I think just being the same

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person who brings candy and says the same thing over again. Here's the budget. Here's what it is. There's no surprises. It It's been the same since day one. and that will help sort of disseminate to the public that way because our staff work a lot with our boards and our commissions and our

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committees. Um, so it's an opportunity so they could say, "Hey, the the town administrator's office select board figured something out." It's it's the same land message over and over again. Um, and that communication will build trust over time. Um, it starts with a couple good town meetings. We were

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really fortunate. Um, at the March special town meeting, it went pretty well. I think you guys did a great job at the annual town meeting. Um, and that really helped I think let people know the 120 150 or so people that came that things feel positive. It was one night.

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It was three hours. It was a PowerPoint presentation. It worked. I think that's a real compliment to some of the messaging that your board is supporting and that allows your town administrator to be successful. >> Can I do a follow-up? >> Yes, of course. Um, any ideas on how to

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get that consistent message out to a wider demographic in our town? Besides when you say 150 people showed up at town meeting, that's really not a lot of people and it's usually the same people at board meetings and the same people here. So, how do you get it out to a wider audience? Yeah.

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>> Or any ideas that you have to do that? >> Yep. So, in smaller communities, you'll see people print newsletters and send them to the mailbox. That gets kind of expensive. Um, you know, I think we touched on it um recently with um one of the staff members here about getting the TA reports online and just making things

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more accessible. You know, it takes baby steps. You know, is it sitting down at the new Starbucks once a week and just being like, "Hey, I'll buy you a coffee if you sit here for an hour with me and just air your grievances." Um, I've done that as a select board member in my community. Um,

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and just said, "Fire away." and you let people just sit down with you, boot and holler, and you just start to build trust that way. So, um I think given the opportunity, I could probably come up with a few communication platforms and ways to do that. Um, I half joked with

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uh one of your residents, uh, Cindy King, who's I think live streaming this now, that if there was more interest, I probably would have liked to sat with her on her news channel to talk about the annual time meeting award because people do click and watch and use our

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YouTube platform. Um, so maybe those are different things that we can take advantage of down the road. Yeah, I have a good friend who's a second member in Actton and they do like um their TA sits down with a select board member, you know, once a year and

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basically does a little like >> I ho question just for fun and then they put that on YouTube and they actually said that's very, you know, positive interaction because it's not a forum. It's just a casual thing. Last time she did it, they were talking about how much

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they loved our meeting more. So things silly things like that I think. And I think, you know, you have like we're going to see the benefit of Starbucks in sort of a growth overlay for the town. Like let's try to create some more business for them. That's sort of where my head goes. Or is it, you know, sitting out at Dunkin Donuts, you know,

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back here where I know folks sort of hang out. Some of the seniors I've seen down there when I'm getting a nice coffee sometimes down there hanging out having coffee. Why not sit there and see what they have to say? >> Don't forget about Cliffs. >> Cliffs is good, too. >> And they've been here longer than Duncan. >> Senior Center.

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>> Senior Center. >> Senior Center. with the TA right >> um so Kieran given the town's aforementioned leadership um changes how would you approach strengthening its systems in organizational management um

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provide an example of a municipal process that you improved and outcome >> so what was the first part of the question is >> so given that how much flux we've had how would you look at strengthening our organizational systems

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as things have fallen fall through the cracks, if you will, at times. I'll give the example of a lease that was approved at a town meeting and never was executed on. >> Um, some processes during hiring or some, you know, processes for RFPs or

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stuff like this that >> there isn't really a process there right now and how would you approach like looking at the bigger picture and putting some systems in place? Yeah, I think um you know having just getting towards the tail end of your the three of your ask me union group negotiations

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I think there's an opportunity for you know maybe a quieter time like I think the month of July is sometimes quieter in these buildings is let's look at our policies and procedures and just let's go through them line by line and let's make sure they're not competing with one another because if we're going to

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default to people saying well this is what the policy says then we should double check and make sure what they're actually trying to achieve. And then once you sort of review that, maybe it's an ad hoc committee, maybe it's the select board's charge, it's your town administrator's charge, I think once you stabilize that side of things where

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people's default is saying, well, this is what the policy is. Okay, well, we redid it. We retoled a bit and this is how we're going to implement. Um, and I think along the way it's working with staff. You know, some of our staff have been here for 15, 20 years. What have

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they learned? you know, ask them questions like what could be done better and sort of rehash those things and then, you know, use their knowledge and their wisdom to improve. So, that's sort of where I would go with things. >> I was looking at some policies the other day and I was like, "Wow, that one's

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from 2001." >> Yeah, >> we started those. >> You know, there's there's a lot of policies. >> Yeah. and the select board was doing it. And I guess the only of course we had things get in the way too as far as

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>> income and you know finances but um so that took over a lot of that but probably having doing one policy every meeting >> until they're all gone through >> and they're really valuable. You know when I think of 2001 that seems like

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forever ago because it was it was 25 years. So I think it's, you know, every every so often it's a good time to sort of bring it back to the table and sort of have a campfire around and say what how how have we done this? Is it actually effective? Like what could we improve? What did we learn? Um because

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we have a great number of minutes and meeting you know videos online that we can go back and reflect on to do that. >> Yeah. Okay. As a town administrator, you would serve as a steward of public funds and

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custodian of taxpayer dollars. Describe your approach to making fiscally responsible decisions, particularly when balancing competing priorities and limited resources. >> Yeah, it's a particular challenge for

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towns and um and this is in my resume. It's I brought it up at town meeting and I've brought it up um at various staff meetings, but um it's 2 and a half% for a reason. And I think you got to live within your means. I say that knowing full well that that's

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very challenging when utility costs again are jumping at 9 6 8 10%. Um, but I think we need to encourage the transparency in terms of this is what 2 and a half% gets you and here are the results if you want to grow more than that and here's what you lose if you

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aren't able to, you know, fulfill those obligations. Um, I think that's true of our vendors. It's different contracts we have. Um, and I think folks have to get on board, but this is the this is the way Towns and can survive and sort of

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write the ship, if you will. Um, we went through that recently with just our town meeting. You see it's 2% all the way in the far right hand column. Other than a few different specialized buckets, it's two it's 2% all the way down. Um, and we're fortunate enough that the residents supported that effort this

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past annual town meeting. I think um if I can just have one plug for that that there is towns has showed time and time again that proposition to not right don't go over really well >> and um I know that some towns are very

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successful. Do you have any ideas of how in a future world that maybe could be a part of the picture? I think for towns in an override, you guys have had very little success with uh many of your residents. Um I think

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it's close to 50 60% of your town is on a fixed income level. Um so I think you have to be really respectful of that because those folks are turning the lights on. The cost of Verizon TV has gone through the moon and they may have kiddos and they have family obligations. So, I think, you know, challenging folks

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to consistently say, "Do I want more money taken out of my pocketbook for something that could be as simple as, you know, uh, turning off the AC because it's hot? Is it a little unfair?" Um, I think an override in town really has to

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be systemic from day one, July 1, all the way up until the vote, um, in order to get complete buy in or else it's just kind of a wasted effort. And um you know, I thought the police override worked really hard to achieve that. They weren't super far off from getting that

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vote through. Um but it it it says a lot when your police or your first responders aren't able to to successfully, you know, um persuade residents to to increase their taxes. So, you know, that's just what it

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is. There were a lot of overrides in the Commonwealth this past year. I think so far it's been one out of five has passed just out of a ballpark stat in general. So, >> well, it's very difficult to compete with anything over 2.5. >> It's what it is

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>> and that's what the state allows. And how do you get people to finally realize? I mean, at some point we're going to have nothing left >> but insurance cost and um benefits or whatever, but we're going to

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be down to we could be down to one day a week for the town. >> Yeah, there's town hall. >> Yeah, there's a world that, you know, that's sort of the nuclear option. I hate to say it, but um I think you know I think your staff and some of your residents have begun to realize like we

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just keep edging closer and closer to that, you know, point where it's to your point, it's just insurance costs and it's just snow and ice in schools. >> Yeah, snow and ice, right? I forgot that one, you know, and that's just sort of what it is. But, you know, um it's it's

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the reality. A lot of towns like like towns in our fac uncommon. Um >> Yeah. And it's not news. >> It's not news. >> It's not news. You can always say it the same way every time because that's what it is.

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>> All right. Moving along. Um managing employees and resolving conflicts is a revolving responsibility of the TA's office. How do you approach these difficult interactions? >> Yeah, you we I've had a number since I've uh I've started here. So, I think it's you know, always hearing both sides

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of the story. Um you know, doing a proper investigation and understanding what happened depending on the seriousness of the issue. And then um you know it's I'm not a human resource officer but I think it's if you're able to try to sit folks down if it's as

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simple as enough as like airing of grievances and sitting down with party A and party B and there's a mediator whether it be myself or you know another vested partner um I think that could yield really really positive results. um when things are a bit more serious then I think it's you involving your town

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council your labor council because they're experts in the field and they're supposed to be relied on for um protecting the town's interests and that's all you know almost 10,000 residents interests and not just those of the employee um I think you have to be responsible when you um are a staff

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member here and that means proper decorum you know kindness is important I had that message for a few folks um with my first 45 days of being an in town administrator that you know we're we're we're going to steer away from certain terms, language and stuff like that. If

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you can't be kind, then you're not on our team. Good. Um, so what do you see as some potential benefits and challenges in having changed from a three member to a five member select board in council and how would you help to navigate that

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extension as chief administrative officer? >> Um, fun. Yeah, that's uh I know a lot of communities are facing this challenge. Um, so I think it's great to have more um, you know, perspective and different viewpoints uh, for the town. Um, I think

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that could be incredibly positive for Townsen. I think during that transition is, um, you know, whomever runs and wins. I think it's, you know, catching up with them and saying, "How do you want to how do you want to do this? What are you interested in? What what are your passions? You know, what made you run?" Um, because I think to be a

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volunteer and to give your time and so much of it to the town is really um quite a service. So, it's it it really depends on the folks. Do they have any experience in local governance? Have they done it before? you know, where do they come from? Um, so some of that just kind of writes its own story and then as

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a town administrator, you're there to support them, be available, you know, rain or shine, you know, uh, to see what they say and and what they can do and sort of take it from there. >> Kind of a blas answer, but it's it's it's the way it is.

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>> Not a lot of room for Yeah. >> Yeah. >> kind of is. And I think uh, our board is hoping to kind of, you know, pop those people on board. It's going to be a transition. There's no way around it. So, >> we need more help. Yeah. >> True. >> Less leazison for you guys. That would

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be the win. >> It's like a lifetime position. >> Okay. What are your thoughts on using intermunicipal agreements to tackle fiscal and organizational challenges for towns and its neighbors? Yeah, thoughts

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on realizations actually on my list of notes I just made. Um, you know, we're unique because of our um our staff's um representation with union groups. Um, so that does prohibit some regionalization in different aspects um because you it

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changes a job description or it co-lends it with you know a pep roll or an ashby. Um so there are some limitations when it comes to regionalization. Um, however, there are roles that I think given the opportunity and compensation, those

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folks might be more intrigued to um, see what could be done. Um, you know, Ashb is a very small municipal government. They're only open about 3 days a week or so. U, PEP is a bit more robust. They've got fewer um, you know, more more

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people, more resources. So perhaps there's an opportunity to um you know we talked about the animal inspector last night like could we could we share that between the two towns. Um so some of those um lesser roles we might get some buying power. Um you know I think that that could be said for Lunberg. I know

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they're potentially discussing a water opportunity um and sort of their their fallback option is to sort of team up with towns and water um and sort of see if we can bridge the gap for their systems. Yeah, I think there's

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this board last year um kind of started opening those channels to towns around us and I hope as I think it seems most the towns are open to conversations as we as positions come up and so >> as long as it benefits everyone.

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>> Yeah. and and not just same book >> and it could you know there's some buying power maybe it decreases cost maybe you shift you know insurance I mean however it shakes out for individuals and different personnel >> all right um how would you handle employee and public perception when

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managing union and non-union employees under different rules and contracts >> yeah so I think that goes back to our policies and procedures in our handbook and um again we're coming towards the tail end of three union groups and we're going to kick off a fourth on Tuesday in

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terms of negotiations. Um so I think it's getting getting everyone on the same page and um you know our union groups are great. They are um they're responsive. You know I think they collectively work pretty well with their their staff members. Um so I think it's

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just you trying to approach it in the same fashion. everyone gets treated the same. Um because that's the most consistent way to do management is, you know, whether you're on the the Yankees or the Red Sox, you're still a baseball player. You still you still work for the MLB and you work for the fan or a taxpayer. Let's think of it that way.

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We're all on the same bridge. You know, I use I'll give a little thought on this is um I'll give the example of longevity which you know is at the top of your conversation in union negotiations and it's also applicable to non-UN employees

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>> and so you know if any of that changes on the union side I think it would be really important for outreach to also happen to the non to get their thoughts. Yeah, I think it's um I've started to do the math for folks in terms of what longevity actually means. Um and I hope

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everyone uses a little AI to investigate on their own and what that impact could be to everybody rather than just those that have been here for 20 25 plus years. So >> follows um so this is kind of a complicated

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answer but we have time so feel free to run it. um what steps have you taken to prepare for this interview and based on what you learned about the pound, what your would your priorities be during your first six months as administrator? >> Um sure. Yeah. So, it's kind of been a trial by fire if I'm being brutally

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honest. Um you know, it's again I'm deeply appreciative of um the board and the residents and the staff for taking a chance on me. Um you know, I was pretty upfront where I had never been a TA before. Um, but you know, I think in a

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town like Townsen, though it's wonderful and it's complex and it's got a lot of characters and you know, tremendous staff, it's it's a learning opportunity for me. Um, just as much as my first six months as a Dun School Select board member was, um, when we were, you know,

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mid TA search and then COVID was right on the the horizon. um and a school system that was you know trying to figure out what to do with COVID and meetings with the building wide open in February like what did that look like? Um so I think you know in the first six

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months u let's say July one fiscal year um it would really be um focusing on what the next fiscal year looks like. Um I've started to do your books for next year and I can see that there's a there's a tsunami coming. Um, I've been

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really upfront with the staff about that. I think we've been upfront with them since this past winter in terms of what what's coming and how uncomfortable it may be. Um, for all of us, for anyone >> words at the annual meeting, by the way. >> Yeah, I did. So, it's um I don't think

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that's lost in anybody that it's it's particularly challenging. you know, as the executive board, you're going to have the decision whether you advocate for an override or do you say, well, we haven't been successful in what the last five plus years in getting one. How do

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we do it now? Um, so it's really um the focus should be the budget um and you know determining what the makeup of the town is and what kind of town you want to be. Are you open five days a week? Are you open one day a week? What is the sort of breakdown? How does that impact

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residents who may use this as a resource for um just coming here to shoot the breeze and catch up with folks, which I think is wonderful and charming. Um but sometimes it could dissuade your staff from maybe spending all 40 hours in a week working because they're sort of

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getting charmed by, you know, different visitors. And that's part of the, you know, the whimsy of a town is, you know, people come in and out and learn more about different things, whether it be a beaver dam that's breaching or um, hey, there was a big, you know, medy flight landing on the the back parking lot.

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What happened? Was everyone okay? Um, so I think it's those different aspects, but they all resent, you know, they all matter financially and I think that's Townson's most significant issue ahead of it. Um, and you know, six months

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probably isn't enough to come up with a plan, but I think it's it's going to be needed to try to figure out where to go. Um, and and what that means to your staff and your residents who use this as a resource um, and where your tax dollars are going. You guys are residents. You pay taxes. You probably

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want to know what your ROI is on your tax dollars here. Like, are all the lights on at 10 o'clock at night when you drive by because you just finished dinner? Why? Yeah, simple things like that that >> Yeah, you never know. Um, >> I turned them off last night as I was leaving,

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>> right? You know, so it's really an opportunity um to really sit down with staff, sit down with your executive board and your fincom, you know, they're they're a wonderful part of this process because they are sort of your checks and balances here and, you know, I learned a

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great deal from them this past spring. Um, and I think they have some visions and some goals on their own. I think we have to bring those together. Um, we did that in some different instances in joint meetings before and that's a pretty common practice in a lot of towns is those groups come together and they

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say, "Hey, we're a quarter million dollars short. How are we going to bridge the gap and what are we going to do to get there?" Um, I hope it's not more than that, but I fear it may be. um for town council. So >> it it was I'll say that this year I felt

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that there was it was nice when those meetings were coordinated and you know everybody kind of got around the same page on a few instances like you know the hiring >> and to get support from both groups was important >> and it starts from day one. I mean, I think it's I remember going to one of

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their meetings and we went line by line through the budget and, you know, a part of me enjoys that because I don't know everything and the chair of the FINCOM was like, "Hey, you missed something here." And I'm like, "Well, that is important." Like, "How else are we supposed to learn? How else are we supposed to get better without someone saying, "Hey, you just missed something

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here. We can fix it, but like just make sure it's right." Um, so I think it's sort of it's a teamwork. It's an effort that we're all on the same page together. So, that kind of wraps up our little series of questions, and I'd like to open it up to you to approach ask this

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whatever you would like to hear. >> Sure. Um, well, again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to sit down with you guys. Um, you're probably tired of seeing me on TV for those listening at home. Um, I think it's just a few of us, which is always fun. Um, >> I better watch it later.

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>> Yeah, there you go. Recap on the way home. Yeah. >> Um, so I guess I like Sarah's question in regards to communication, but are there any vehicles or any methods that you haven't seen done that you think would be worth trying and like what does that look like to you? >> I mean, I think it would be great if

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more things were on the website >> as well as doing something on Facebook where a lot of I think a lot of the vocal people are on Facebook. So, it's like if we can give them more information and an understanding of what's going on, you know, in town, >> more negative people. Do you want like

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live interactions or you want just be like a message and >> No, I think your I think your idea of live interactions is great. I have no opposition to that. I would do something down in Starbucks if that's you know something that everybody wants to get on board with. Um I think definitely written communication as well in

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whatever format you feel like it's going to reach the most amount of people. I understand >> um that doing like a newsletter that you mail out to everybody is a little cost prohibitive um at this point. Um, but even if it's like maybe posting a newsletter at like the senior center or a newsletter in some of the other post

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posting places that we post for, you know, other things just to get it out there and let people be more aware of what's going on. A lot of people feel like there's not a lot of transparency coming from the board and everybody higher up in town hall.

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>> So, you know, whatever we can do to show that we want people to know what's going on. We know people aren't going to show up at the meetings. We know a ton of people aren't watching >> now or you know I know you said people go onto YouTube and watch it later but >> I mean collectively like you had

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mentioned 150 people at annual town meeting that's not a lot of people. We have like 9,000 people in town. So how do we >> how do we get more information out the information correct information so that there's less speculation >> and less >> negative talk about what's going on

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because they don't know what's going on. Yeah. >> So, getting rid of that negativity, which you mentioned, you know, you've been working on in town hall since you got here. Like, that's just not the way to, you know, communicate with people and and get the job done. >> Um, but I think there could be a bunch of different valuable ways to get that

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information out. >> Yeah. And negative, you know, being negative is fine. I think you know sometimes being the skies falling is a wonderful characteristic that I probably have along the way but I think it's you know doing it but being courteous which I know sounds so juvenile but it's one of the most important things to remember

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is you know what we were probably taught when we were little was like you hold the door for people you be kind yes sir yes ma'am >> you know like I I I've had that instilled in me deeply and I try to say yes sir yes ma'am to everyone who comes to the door you know here in the town

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hall so um I I think that sort of gentle white glove touch is an important art and it's not hard to learn and it's not hard to do. Um so I think it's encouraging that across the board here. >> I think it's easier for people to be discourteous behind their keyboards. >> Yeah. >> Um you know when you

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>> that there's a person reading it on the other side >> children you know that are that are watching adults >> not be courteous. Yeah. >> Well, one of my favorite things I said in Dunville was we had some keyboard warriors and they were great, but then it was so different when you got them to

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a meeting and I loved having them come to a meeting. I didn't mind that they were online either, but you know, we all it's all it's all a little different when you're sitting at a table or you're participating live. Um, >> so, you know, I think people their schedules are challenging. So, sometimes just being a keyboard warrior is the way to go.

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>> I think it's, you know, always keeping sort of proper decorum along the way. Yeah. Um, so that's a great communication suggestion in certain >> Yeah, getting the fact factual information out there and also like the wins like you said that you're just finishing up on a grant, you know, um, you've had some other grants come in.

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I'm not seeing those like >> I know about them because you told me, not because if I was sitting at home, I know where to find that information, >> right? >> Could be a new bridge. That's what we're working on. >> Yeah. So

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there was well we have been talking for a few years actually not just now or even since I became selectman but for te camp to do little roundabout towns and things >> and honestly our schedule has just been

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so fluxed all over the place that we can't get to do the things that we wanted to do. >> Yeah. >> You know, and then when I tried for some of the department things, >> um then we had some departments that didn't want to go on camera like just

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for little snippets of five minutes of what they do or what the process is for their their departments. >> So, it's not like that we haven't tried or talked about it. Um, it's there and TCAM will be very cooperative. Yeah. You

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know, about it to get it done. So, I'm sure one day it will be done. >> Well, and you and I touched on it back in the spring where um, you know, like it's like the the dun we call we called it the dunable minute or I was trying to think of what the towns and mascot was was like in where I grew up it was the

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Chester squirrel. So, like there was a little that's the mascot of the town which is hilarious. But, you know, it's, you know, you just spend three minutes. Are you guys at Towns and Tigers, right? >> I have no idea. >> You have like a town mascot. >> I didn't know we had >> And M has the Patriots. >> Yeah.

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>> What's the town the town icon? >> No idea. >> That That could be the first thing we do is create a mascot for the town. >> So, I like the Towns and Tigers. That's where my head goes. Um, but you know, it's it's the towns and tiger minute. you know, something like that where it's uh it could just be a picture of town

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hall and it could be myself talking like this is what happened. Here's a 90 here's your elevator pitch in two minutes. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think we talked about it and then you know my responsibility just got pushed to the wayside because there's a lot going on. Um >> you still want to see towns first in >> town first. Yeah, we're working on that.

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>> I mean there's so many things honestly that we had ideas about but then stuff happens and you have to deal with the stuff >> Yeah. that takes away from the progress, I think. >> Yeah. And I think it's sort of a couple steps forward, sometimes a few steps back, but it's, you know, once you sort

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of stable stabilize the ship a little bit, maybe we could explore those other opportunities. Um, or it becomes just part of, yeah, the weekly or bi-weekly process that, you know, myself or whomever, you know, wherever your TA is is working with your admin staff to say, "Hey, we have this to do. We have to do

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it on Monday. It's every other Monday. We know we got got to get it online. It's just a checklist thing. Um, so I think stuff like that becomes really tangible and isn't hard to implement once you've just figured out the parameters, take it from there. So, >> so I this is kind of a question that I

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thought I'd add at the end if we had time, which we do. So, um, as kind of a first time permanent TA, what additional resources do you think you will need? >> Uh, clone me. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, I think um >> that >> you guys probably feel the same way with

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liaison and all different things, but it's >> it's you know, figuring out um you working closely with staff, you know, department meetings and then for me it's um you know, recently like I love having I love having the door open and people coming in and you chitchatting. I

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realize that sometimes that could be um my girlfriend Maggie will say that's kind of like a time thief and you could spend two hours with somebody and you're really having a joyful conversation but then it's that two hours like should have been focused on cleaning up a grant

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um you know checking in on a different issue whether it be personnel or you know just re you know revisiting the budget >> or that one person gets it instead of 500 people with communication >> right so it's um you know I think being a bit more aware um just improve my own

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self-awareness or you know we started messaging that you know the TA's office you know isn't available on Thursdays afternoon time something to that effect I think would really benefit um your town administrator whoever it is as well as your admin staff because we know that

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that half a day is dedicated towards admin work people you can't come in you just got to give us a moment so we can get the things done you know and uh plant the seeds let them grow and go from there because I think that would yield some really positive results for staff, for residents, and just an

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overall performance of the office. >> Anything else? >> I agree. I mean, having an open door policy is great. It's lovely kind of thing, but it's not always productive. >> And how are you going to get the work done when you've been accommodating?

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>> Yeah. Um, >> and some of that shine may wear off if you're sitting at Cliffs, you know, on Monday, you know, let's say Tuesday before select board meeting. Like, I'll be there. The agenda's up. Ask me about the agenda. I I'll sit there and have a cup of coffee and eat home prize with

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you. Um, but you get to ask about the agenda now rather than coming, you know, Monday afternoon and when I'm trying to prepare for the meeting for you guys so we're wellrounded and we're ready to go. Um, >> are they open before the meeting? I'm not sure, but I just thought like Tuesday morning and lunch.

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>> Yeah. Or Tuesday morning because the agenda's up, you know? Um just be like, "Hey, you can come and I can have breakfast and you can yell at me if you need to." So, >> yeah, you can do that, >> right? I mean, but that's like a lot of town administrators and town managers are doing that.

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>> Um and it's I think it's yielding some publicize it though. And I and I had um I think I don't know if I mentioned it in the candidates when I was running, but I talked about having you know like open select board hours and rotating your members to sit with the TA during that time. >> Yep.

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>> We you know a stack member doesn't have to really answer anything that they're seeing and they're hearing >> and then when everybody takes a turn to do that you know once a month. >> Yeah. >> If there's five members you have to do it twice a year, >> right? >> Skip the >> I mean that's a great idea too but again it's like one of those ideas that Yeah.

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They were all great ideas. >> Pipe dream until >> But we couldn't we couldn't get there, >> right? >> I can make that work. >> Yeah. With whoever. >> Yeah. >> It might little effort for a big one. >> It's a little budget ask. It's not um because you just do the math on if it's once a month and it's $100, it's $1,200

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per year. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, it's just it's pretty easy to gify it out and just figure out who will visit and it may be nobody certain days. Then your TA is sitting there just doing work. >> Yeah. because you can sit there with a anywhere with a computer these days and do work um when you're available. So,

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>> and then having different times I would say morning nights. >> Yeah. >> For those that are people that can't >> I have a whole thing of I think I talked enough about him so >> well like your towns like Carl Wild do it. Um Dunable Grten um Kingsboro is

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doing it. I think his name is Colin. He's new and he's crushing it. He had a great town meeting. great resource in the area for a larger community with a lot of different commerce and things. Um, so they're yielding some really nice results from those interactions with people. So >> wonderful. I think we're good.

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>> Yeah, >> have a little break. And thank you so much for coming in and >> thanks for having me >> sitting with us. And >> thanks Karen. >> I'll go back and sit in my hot office. So good luck. >> I'm in charge of the clicker tonight. >> That's right. Thank you. So, um,

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>> chilling in here now >> for everybody. I think we're just going to take a little recess just to >> Yeah. >> I'll find our next candidate and then take a little break and we'll be back right before 6:00. Thank you. >> Thanks. I'm going to start this back up. So,

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welcome back everybody. Our little break there. Um, Alex, Alexander Louder is here for um, our 6 p.m. interview. Um, I'll just give you a little introduction, Alex, that I gave to our previous candidate. Um, so I wanted to say thanks to the screen

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community and the candidates for their time investing in the application and process um, for their commitment to public service. Also, it's not lost on us that this process is very time consuming for the candidates and the screen community and this life board and um everyone we interviewed has been

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outstanding candidates and ultimately our decision is going to based on what best need of the community at this time and um I'll add that you know checking everybody's references was just a wonderful process and if you want some optimism in the world call and check references for two really good

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candidates. Um for this process, I'd like to start by allowing you to make a brief five minute introductory uh statement about yourself. Um we're going to follow by a series of questions that the board has prepared um to give all our candidates equal opportunity. Um and we'll end by allowing you to add anything you feel we may have missed or

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um any questions that you have for us as a board or individually. Um I'll ask if the board has any follow-up questions after any uh candidate has given their response and then um just avoid side conversations and um we'll have to do a greatation after this. So floor is all

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yours. Very good. Once again want to thank you for having me this evening. My name is Alexander Lauder. I am currently serving as the community and economic development planner for the town of Tuksberry. um my journey to municipal government I think is like a lot of folks it kind of happened by accident and madam chair forgive me you've heard

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a lot of this before but for the benefit of your fellow board members um why are we here so I started as a member of a volunteer committee the public events and celebrations committee when I first moved to uh that's just how I started getting involved um putting on the annual fall

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festival the town treelighting and uh at that time I was working full-time for a federal government contractor contract administration uh primarily in wildfire recovery in the state of California, worked with Caloes, the Army Corps of Engineers and um and other government

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agencies out there and I was going out to California for a month at a time and started wanting to do a little bit of public service that was closer to home. Uh so when an administrative assistant position opened in the community development department, I knew I had to throw my hat in the ring. I spoke with

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the select board liaison that I was working with on the committee at the time and she encouraged me to apply and uh the rest was all history. So I entered the full employment with the town as the department's administrative assistant. I was primarily supporting the zoning board of appeals and planning board, a little bit of conservation

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commission, but I was also handling all of the office tasks. Um POS, payroll, you know, you name it. Uh I was kind of the the suit to nuts person in the office. And when the planner that I was working with at the time chose to end her employment with the town, I

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transitioned into the planner role and I've been in that since 2021. And in a town like Tukbury that has been built out quite a bit, um what I wanted to bring to the role was something that was a little more responsive to what the

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community's needs were and not simply just a technical adviser to the planning board of of which I still do, but with a lot less new development. We had to kind of pivot what the position looked like and what the office looked like. So I at the the support of the town manager at

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the time decided to add uh economic development to be a little more prominent in my role. And what that looked like was making sure that I was the first person that businesses reached out to when they were coming to town. And that was because I was so well positioned with the building department, the health department. I worked a lot

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with the clerk's office. Kind of all of those things that you need when you're opening a business. Do you need a food permit? Do you need a business certificate? Are you doing renovations in the space? And then of course the piece was always still with the planning board if somebody was building new and between that and then joining other

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organizations to really expand my network and make sure that I was always hooking up businesses with helpful resources. So joining the Middle Sex 3 coalition which is an economic development organization that hosts all the communities that are along the route

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three corridor along with some of the adjacent ones because of course is not along route three. um and using that as an opportunity to network with businesses, developers, um and other municipal professionals to really, you know, no one's reinventing the wheel here, so really uh resource share. I was

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also heavily involved and still am, excuse me, um in the Northern Middle Sex Council of Governments, uh where I interact quite a bit with some of your neighboring communities of uh PEL and Dunstable on uh regional planning efforts. Um, and I'm also on the board

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of directors for the Greater Lobo Chamber of Commerce, as well as Revolutionary Valley, formerly known as the Marramac Valley Tourism Board. And again, that's just to make sure that I'm interacting and meeting with all the other professionals in the space because we all have value and we all have, you

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know, things that we can bring to the table. Um, and between adding economic development and still staying heavily involved with the planning board, again, still continuing to support the zoning board of appeals and the conservation commission as necessary, including

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stepping in as the interim conservation uh agent a couple of times uh during transition. um really making sure that I have a good idea of what everyone does. And beyond my immediate department under that umbrella of community development, I have also taken on um training and

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certification classes with the mass building commissioners inspector inspectors association, treasure collectors, uh DLS assessors. Uh still trying to get to the accounting one. That one's a really tough one. Um I done the mass municipal managers boot camp which was really really valuable. just

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kind of giving a high level overview of all the major tenants of being a manager. Um and then you know between expanding training really putting everything in community development under my wing and um adding economic

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development the other piece is being heavily involved in organizing town events. So, like I said, I my roots were with the public events and celebrations committee and as folks started to move away and their time because a lot of the time their involvement was tied to their

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kids being involved in school or what have you. Um, I absorbed that committee into my department and what started as a volunteer committee eventually turned into actually a much higher level organization of town departments putting on these events. So the fall festival

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that we had actually grew into something we called fallene which was a great term that was coined by our assistant library director. Um the tree lighting started to come underneath and the next thing that we did uh was organize a big last day of school celebration which really

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was the culmination of individual departments doing a lot of different things and volunteers and participants kind of spreading themselves thin and what I helped work to do with with the co cooperation of really every other town department was bring all those things together so we can give everybody

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the best experience. Um, outside of work, I volunteer at the MSPCA at Nevin's Farm. Um, I foster animals. I work in their lowcost um, spay neuter clinic and I also work with the Grigalo World Runners and I work on the big state marathon.

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It's my fresh marathon. >> It's a lot. It's supposed to be a very good one. I haven't run I haven't run it myself. Yes. >> That's why I'm running Chicago later this year. Well, whatever I could Oh, sure. >> What aspects of your municipal

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leadership experience have prepared you to guide a town like Townsen through its current challenges and how would you apply that experience here? Sure. So I think the the easiest experience to reach for is the cooperation among town

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departments for fun things like the the fall festival events. Um and that involves coordinating over multiple departments over multiple months including transitions and leadership which is certainly something that you have to contend with. Um a lot of that for us comes from the school packs that

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turn over every year. So you have one set of leadership that you know agrees to all these things and then it changes in July and the events in October. So, we kind of have to go over everything again, make sure everybody's still on board, make adjustments as necessary, and then keep going. Um, another thing

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that I'm working on right now is the renovation of a school building. So, a historic school building from 1859. It's really one of the last historic buildings that we have in town. Um, it came offline as an elementary school in the last 20 years or so, and

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unfortunately, it's out. Um, and so I have been spearheading that. Started under our previous town manager and continued under the new town manager. I'm functioning as one of the owner project managers along with our facilities manager. Um, and he and I

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work together to work on the um, you know, plan review, RFP prep, RFP issuance, you know, evaluating the bids and eventually putting together the construction contract. And since that contract issuance last Oh, wow. June. Um, you know, we're coming up on

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actually finishing the construction, but through the whole way, I've been involved in the bi-weekly construction meetings and basically managing all of the contract aspects. So, change orders, um, time extensions and the conflicts

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inevitably arise when you are renovating a building that old. Um, you know, digging up the parking lot and finding that there was a buried swimming pool. Um, and figuring out how you deal with that. um you know coming up when you have especially the way mass procurement

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law works the the subcontractors aren't always the first choice of the general contractors because they don't get to pick them right that's not how the file sub bids work. So helping manage the conflicts that arise between the general contractors and the selected subcontractors when not everybody's kind

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of moving in the same direction. So, I think being able to that project has been on budget and save for an unforeseen issue with uh the town's water lines um has remained on on schedule. So, I think those experiences

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would make me uh well poised to be able to take on the challenges in this town. Sounds like quite a big endeavor. >> Yeah. Um and forgive me for not knowing this. I I didn't look it up, but how many residents are in Tuksbury? >> Approximately 30,000.

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>> 30,000? >> Yes. >> And has have you had an override there? >> Not yet. >> During your tenure? >> No, certainly not. No. I mean, I think most Massachusetts communities are kind of barreling towards one one way or the

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other, but no, all of our um all of our capital projects have been funded by basically snowballing um debt exclusions. So our previous manager who's with the town for 14 years >> pretty much had every major endeavor funded that way. So it's always kind of

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been within the the the levy. >> Um we don't certainly don't have any excess les levy capacity but our new growth has been able to pretty much cover um >> your new growth something we don't have >> right which means that come up with new

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ideas. Yeah. Can I ask a quick followup just um to highlight um a part of this question um in your research for this position um what do you think are the current challenges that the town of Town's facing?

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>> I think a lot of it is that just the costs are outpacing the the the money that the town is allowed to raise. And again, you know, I I mentioned this in in the previous

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discussion that um that the state formulas aren't keeping up, but unfortunately whether they fix them or not, these budget challenges are going to be here. And I think that ultimately getting all departments on the same page

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and everybody just needs to understand, you know, what the limitations are. And I think being able to provide scenarios for folks, which means like, you know, you always want to be realistic and and possibly conservative about new growth because you don't want that to cover

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your sins. But I think understanding this is everything we have right now and this is what it's going to take to continue to have that level of service um really helps paint a picture for people. And then ultimately everybody has to contribute

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to going back to the drawing board. You don't want one department to feel as if they're being targeted because it's easier or less important. But then also thinking of creative solutions for um you know waste removal um and and other

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kind of uh service contracts that to the best of the ability because unfortunately a lot of those companies have a have a monopoly. So, um, yeah, so think thinking through creative solutions. Um, but I think ultimately just making sure that everyone's being realistic about what the capabilities

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are and if folks aren't willing to make a decision for an override and that's okay. That's well within their right, but to understand what those consequences are, whether it's, you know, reduced library hours or what have you, which I would never advocate for if you have to. Those are great.

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Um yeah, I mean unfortunately you have to start, you know, cutting the darlings and start doing. >> Thank you, >> D. Yes. Um the next question, given the turnover Townsen has experienced in the town administrator's office in recent

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years, what would you do to establish credibility, strengthen relationships with employees and elected officials, and rebuild public trust? >> It's an excellent question. So I think you really just hit the nail on the head immediately facilitating

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strong relationships with department heads but also among department heads. You want everybody to be rowing in the same direction. So it's important to have those individual relationships but it's also really important to feel like they all support each other and they all understand the implications of each other's operations and each other's

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budgets because you want them to be able to support each other as well. Um, I very much love being a boots on the ground kind of person. So, you know, I would certainly listen to what you folks would have as a recommendation, but as

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my own approach to building trust in a community. I just make sure that I I am where I say I'm going to be and do what I say I'm going to do. And you know, folks won't know me from anyone, but I think that it's really as simple as that. It's just making sure that you're

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following through on the little things. As you follow through on the little things, I think folks will be more likely to believe that you deliver and follow through on the big things. >> Absolutely. >> I'll do the same followup question I did

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before. Do you have any ideas on how when we talk about building trust within department heads and then with yourself and then departments with departments so that everybody's kind of working together? How do you then do you have any ideas on how you would you know bridge that out to the larger community

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people that aren't in the day-to-day business of running the town um you know to build that trust with them? How would you connect with the entire town? >> Sure. So to start inside the, you know, inside the house a bit. Um, I very much

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enjoy shadowing each department. So I do that now. I actually went on a ride along day with my building commissioner when he did his inspections to get a really good idea of what he's doing. Um, I know other uh municipal managers have, you know, spent a day with the fire department, spent a day with the police

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department, and I have, you know, a reasonable idea of what all these folks do, but to really understand like what what their daily operations look like, what their pain points are. Um, and then something that I do now is we host a weekly um interdep departmental meeting.

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And it's really just more of a a time for everybody to informally discuss issues that they're having, be able to reach across the table to different departments and and kind of get their their say in their their buying stuff, even if it's only 10 minutes. Um, having that standing weekly meeting has been

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really nice to have uh for all of us to be able just to kind of have a touch point check-in. Um, and as far as translating that to the larger community, I think that different department collaborations help demonstrate that. So, um, something that

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I did, for example, is when the, uh, affordable homes act was enacted by the governor and ADUs became a topic of discussion, I grabbed the building commissioner. He and I did a presentation at the library to be able to kind of bring everybody in on a

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couple multidisciplinary uh, things. So, um, another example is, again, I now I can't remember which law this was. It was definitely the Affordable Homes Act, but one before that, um, I teamed up with the conservation agent and the health inspector to do a 101 for real

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estate agents because, you know, one of the things being in that in the community development department is you get tons of calls, oh, my client wants to buy this house or I'm trying to buy a house and I want to know about the septic system. Are there is there conservation land on my property? and we get to have the fun talk about you actually own wetlands and you know it's

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not conservation land, it's yours. Um it's a fun geographic feature that you own. Um and then of course zoning that you know folks don't always understand and and I fully appreciate that zoning is like speaking a different language and trying to make that accessible to

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people. And um something I did during our uh our discussions about MBTA communities was I set up office hours at the senior center and the library and just made myself available for three hours. Um I was hoping people would ask me about zoning, but some people just wanted to chat. Some people told me

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about all the unpermitted work they did on their house 30 years ago, which is also fun, but I said, "Please stop telling me that." Um, so really I think ultimately it's meeting people where they're at, going I did a read across America and went and read to a fourth

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grade class. So really reaching out into people's spaces because as beautiful as this building is, as beautiful as any town hall is, it's intimidating and people don't always want to come into that kind of formal like, oh, Robert Tools kind of environment. So, um, going

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and stepping out and getting stared at the senior center for an hour of being incredibly suspicious of why I'm there. Um, if I'm not going to be playing bingo with them, you know, I think that that's that's something I really enjoy doing is is meeting people work around. I think those are great answers. Senior center,

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library, other ideas. Um, I know there's been a lot of talk among residents that the boards aren't transparent, the town administrator is not transparent. So for all those people that aren't coming to the library or going to the senior center because there aren't a lot of great turnouts when we have events at annual town meeting. There's only about

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150 people there and we have 9,000 people in town approximately. So how would you get more information out about what's going on on a weekly or monthly basis um to the most amount of residents that it's just information for them to

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easily be able to see? Sure. So I think that that's a bit of a twofold issue because making the information available isn't enough, right? Because a lot of the information that comes from municipal offices is very heavy and it can be really hard to digest. So then

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comes the challenge of you need to be able to analyze it a bit to make it accessible, but then being careful not to appear as if you're cherrypicking um you know what what to present and what not to present. Um, and I think that social media, you know, curse it or or

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what have you, love it or hate it, it's it's a great tool. And I can see I see that you folks um recently in the last year or so um established your Facebook account. And I think that that's >> building that presence is ultimately one of the best ways to do it. And then, you know, I know that a way that it works in

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Tukberry is that the police department has a significant amount of attention around um their operations and and for good reason. You know, they have they highlight their school resource officers, their comfort animals and things like that. And I think being able

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to piggyback on where people are going. So if the police department account or the library accounts our library uh we have an excellent library newsletter >> and that's where pages and pages and pages >> and that's where a lot of people get their information. So I think piggybacking on resources that people

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already use to make that next introduction and ultimately I think breaking things down into actionable items is really important. So, you know, I've been doing it since day one in my days in municipal government where I constantly have to, you know, walk

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people through filing an application for the zoning board of appeals and making them not feel like it's a terrifying experience to have to put your name in the newspaper and show up to town hall for a public hearing and have a board of five people be like, "And what do you think your project is?" And I think that

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that's something that I am adept at. Um it I've been told by town council and residents that I'm able that that's a skill I have is that I'm able to break things down into um easy actionable items. And I think better than throwing

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a lot of information at people telling them what they can do with it. So here is the budget you can review X Y and Z. Here's a piece that's completely different from last year. pointing them to some piece that intrigues them to

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then engage because I think the other part of this is what's so hard in municipal government is having people engage when they're not upset >> and I actually did my um master's thesis on that which was government involvement and truly people usually feel motivated

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and mobilized when they're really upset about something. So pointing out areas of interest that can bring them in in a positive light and not out of outrage I think is really important. >> Thank you.

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>> I appreciate that take on things because decreasing the negativity along the way and the side effect. >> Yeah. And you know just to add it's also a strategy that I've seen in um in mun

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like MMA classes that yes the social media is a good tool to communicate when there's a public hearing for you know the tree warden or there's this uh budget hearing but also interspersing that with stuff that is feel-good will

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make it not seem like it's just a a a mouthpiece for the the scary stuff. Um, you know, Massachusetts, I think it was last year, was either last year or the year before, they did the ice cream trail and Tukesbury had two ice cream uh

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facility stands on the list. So, like highlighting that as like highlighting some of our businesses and like what they're doing. Um, and and just doing nice things like that, not not to fluff everything up, but it's easier to accept the information that's not just you're not getting beat over the head with all

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the all the numbers. Um given the town's aforementioned leadership changes, how would you approach strengthening its systems and overall organizational management? Um give an example of a municipal process you improve in the outcome. So you

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need to need to elaborate. >> Sure. Um so something that we've done that I was a part of in Chuksbury was implementing online learning. um really streamlining the process for applicants, for business owners to really have a

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one-stop shop where all departments are going to put all of their comments and they understand what is expected of them to get the end result that they're looking for. So, prior to online permitting, we literally had an actual green sheet, use a green piece of paper that applicants would have to drive and

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walk around to all of the town buildings to get signoffs for and those sheets got lost. They got thrown away. dog ate your homework. It ended up, you know, on people's desks to languish forever and they would often have to start that process over again because it goes over the course of months and then someone doesn't remember if they signed up on

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something. So, that was a pretty easy thing to do. Um, and it and it's been really successful. We've also used it for streamlining um DPW service requests. So people are able to submit um potholes, you know, branch down,

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things like that um into the streamline system. It goes straight to the DPW and then they're able to assign it to Forest Street, Water and Sewer, you know, whatever the appropriate party is. And that's been really helpful not only for ease of reporting, but for

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accountability. And again, it's not something that goes into somebody's inbox and like dies. It's there's accountability and we run reports and we see what um what complaints are still open. We use this for um for health complaints for h housing, food, you

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know, we use it for kind of everything. Um just to be able to add that layer of visibility because then if a resident wants to check in on the progress of their complaint, all they have to do is log into their open gov account and they can pull it up and they can see the progress and the comments that have been

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made by the the responding party. Um, >> and what source do you use for that? >> Open gov. >> Open gov. >> Yes. >> And we don't have >> So anybody I don't mean that we don't have

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open government >> but >> no that is that is a software. Yes. >> Um that's the software. >> Yes. So that's like all of your permitting is done there as well as the complaint. So

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it's board of health, it's planning, it's conservation, it's all of that. >> Yes. >> It's convenient. >> Yeah. >> It's it's a big lift to get it together, but we had a really good team and we have a couple of people who are just

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absolute wizards at the system that know how to manipulate all the if then statements and build all the permits and the whole back end. And it's it's really great. Um, and it it really keeps like I said, it keeps everybody accountable and it's a great place for documentation because we can make internal comments to

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each other of say like I tag the building commissioner and say, "Hey, I finished my review, you know, tag you're in." But then it also allows individual departments to say, "Hey, um, for opening a restaurant, for example, the health department can say, please apply

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for your food permit here." and they'll put the link to their individual application. Um, for even something as simple as residential building permit, someone wants to put a deck. Again, I'll pick on the health department again. They can say, "hm, looks like your septic system is really close to where you want to put that deck. Um, please,

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you know, review this as built. You may want to make adjustments." So, it it gives us a place to put all those things. And, um, it allows it's a really more efficient way to keep track of open building permits, too. um particularly in an age where um banks are becoming a

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lot more uh liability averse not that they aren't anyway but they're becoming much more prudent about the properties that they mortgage right so what I'm finding is a friend of mine uh and I purchased my home 10 years ago and I didn't have any of this but a friend of

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mine was purchasing her home two years ago and in Chubsberry and she calls me and she goes do you have the building file for that and I'm like yes and I was like can I ask why you're asking for it because it's really ticked up in the last like three or four years. And she said in her purchase and sale agreement,

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there's a clause now that talks about like, you know, the uh seller shall not be responsible for any open building permits. So, they all come and ask for open building permits. And having opened up to be able to be like, "Yep, they had a roof last year and they never inspected it or and it just gives us a a

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tool to be able to better explain things like that." And it's, you know, a heck of a lot easier than having a manila folder this wide that every time you open it up, things fall out of it or rubber bands, you know, explode >> permit link here now.

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>> Um, but I don't think it's as detailed as >> I don't know. Yeah, honestly, >> but I know that that it is done online now. >> Sure. >> It's all done online now. Started the process at least. >> Yeah. >> And I think, you know, it may have those

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capabilities. It's just finding a way to dig into it and see what what it has available to it because there aren't too many of these companies that do this kind of software. It's pretty specialized in the same way that um you know town websites like Civic Plus are like >> one other group. And I' I've heard of

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some folks going to that other group and be like a never mind. We got to go back to Civic Plus because they may not be perfect but they they're kind of the ones that are equipped to deal with it. Okay. Next.

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As town administrator, you would serve as a steward of public funds and custodian of taxpayer dollars. Describe your approach to making fiscally responsible decisions, particularly when balancing competing priorities and limited resources.

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>> Sure. So, I think the the cardinal rule is to only use um you know, when you have recurring revenue for recurring expenses, you want to avoid using

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one-time money to stop at what your operating budget is. It it can I think a lot of people have kind of had to throw the white flag and do that every once in a while. Um but it's certainly not a a sound practice to to go on. Um, I think

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that collectively it looks like talking to the community and asking what the priorities are and understanding like I mentioned previously where where do you want to prioritize the level of service um you know there

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are things that people can live without but then there's also opportunities for regionalization. So, um obviously you folks are a part of two regional school systems and there's always opportunity for um coming together to share inspectional services, veterans agent

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services and things like that. And there's I think that there's uh efficiencies to to be explored in in those um in those fields in particular um shared animal control officer services and things like that. So I think finding where regionalization can

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be helpful um is really important and you know the way that we have it in Toky is that everybody is expected to submit a a level service budget but then break out what the asks are and

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having people be realistic about what is necessary to operate on the dayto-day and then what the asks are is really important too. Um because everybody wants, you know, a little bit more money. Everybody wants another, you know, vehicle for inspectional services

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or another employee or what have you. But um if things are operating well and you understand like what your what to keep level service looks like, I think that helps better understand

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what you look at when you're looking at funding priorities. And I I think I mentioned to um the chair during our previous uh meeting um getting good arms around what your capital needs are too because there's a lot of nice to haves that I'm

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sure every department wants to put forth but um making sure that that we're protecting what we have because in in in reviewing the um the financial audits from your previous two years I know that you know taking a good look at all of

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the uh the municipal buildings and properties is is something that's that's on that list. Um and tightening up daily standard operating procedures is on that list. And um and cyber security training. Those are all ways that contribute to sound financial practices.

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Um unfortunately, you know, a couple years ago, Tukbury was the victim of a a fishing scheme and a uh $90,000 wire transfer fraud. And boy, I'll tell you, we got a lot of cyber security training right after that. Um, and there's grants

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for those things, too. Um, to implement through, um, the executive office of technology services. So, um, >> we have guardian, so we get >> Yep. I get it anyway. >> Every week training. >> Yep. Good. >> They they give us the

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>> I fishing all the time on them fast. So yeah, a big challenge for a lot of um we just had an issue with um our emergency service response the federal um group over there

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was packed and the you know our dispatch systems for that. So luckily Town was on the safe side of that one but yeah so >> Oh yeah it happened to the city of old in the last two years they had to start doing manual payrolls because they couldn't use any of their systems. Wow.

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>> Yeah. >> We hope to stay on this side. Yes. >> That way. >> Not in all ways, but we've been lucky that way. >> Exactly. >> Um, moving on to the next question. Managing employees and resolving conflicts is a revolving responsibility

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in the TA office. How do you approach these difficult interactions? >> So, I you know I can use an example. So, we had actually the the historical building um renovation project that we're doing right now. We had what started as a

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conflict with the general contractor turned into a conflict between departments. >> Um and it was the um the water connection issue that I mentioned that pushed the schedule a little bit. So, we had the set of drawings from the the

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public works department that said, "Okay, the water line's here, sewer lines here, this is what it all looks like." And then the site contractor gets into the ground and find that that is not the case that they are there's actually very little clearance between the two and then they start having to work through what does it look like to

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be able to kind of th thread that needle and make the new connections for the building. And we thought we had it understood, myself and the uh the facilities manager and um and it turned into the the public works water

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superintendent saying, "No, you need to do this." is going to result in a $50,000 change order. And the general contractor is trying to manage the site subcontractor. And it turned into a lot of circular discussions. He should, he

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said, she said, and then what ultimately after hearing after trying to provide each party the tools to resolve it on their own. So, me speaking with the public works department, speaking with the site subcontractor, speaking with the general contractor to try to get

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everybody on the same page and it still wasn't working. Um, ultimately what worked the best was just getting everybody in the same room to have a discussion and it sounds simple and we were actually resolved in 10 minutes. What started as two weeks of runaround

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was resolved in 10 minutes. Um, so that was really good. We've also had um differences in how some permits are administered. So the um building commissioner has his set of permits that the plumbing inspector that the um the

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backflow prevention person and the water superintendent all sign off on. And there had there was some conflict between order of operations, who's supposed to sign off on what, who um ultimately has the authority, and then

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trying to have some folks take on more responsibilities that were not in their code. So again, I think ultimately the the approach is to try to facilitate the discussion to happen on its own. So giving the tools to the people to have the discussion to reach the resolution

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on their own. But if that's not the case, then I think the be ultimately the best thing to do is to come all together and have a discussion. But I think you don't always want to be the one that has to, you know, the buck stops with you, but you don't want to be the one that

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jumps in every single time because ultimately if you're the person that's the the conversation lubricant every single time, you're not giving people the ability to solve problems on their own. And there's value in that, too. Now, absolutely there's going to be times where the administrator has to be

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the broker, but I think ultimately having people try to have those discussions on their own in in a productive way is is the best at least first course of action. It's it's true too, you know, that people talking at each other over email

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online and then you think there's complete disagreement. you get them in the room together and you can find that nugget of, you know, shared grounds within you. Yes. So, so um what do you see as some potential

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benefits and challenges in the upcoming change from a three member to a five member select board and how would you help to navigate that expansion as chief administrative officer? So, I genuinely think that the more people are involved, the better. And I

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saw that was it was a citizens petition that >> the charter allows for it. >> Sure. >> A little vaguely. Citizens petition and vote over the last two years. >> Yeah. And so that's something that tells that communicates to me that more people want to be involved and that's great.

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And in what I've generally found in, you know, in these more rural communities, there's more people want to be involved. There's a lot more um engagement and like I said, engagement and not just when you're mad. Um so I think the positive is that you're going to have

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more engagement, more people coming to the table. Um certainly when you add more people, there's more room for dissension and you know, more room for stalemates. All it takes is, you know, one person's sick and then you have a two two and everyone's staring at each other. So, um, but I work primarily with

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five member uh boards and I find the conversation and the debate to be robust and ultimately um I saw that there was some discussion with town council about how to literally get there. Um,

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but I I tend to think that if people are running and they're they're ready to serve, then then transition shouldn't be terribly difficult. Let's it's more people to keep apprised of everything and more people to um, you know, kind of work with on a daily basis. But again, I'm

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I'm used to that that level at this point with a five member planning board that I respond to. And I think from our perspective, you know, helping having a chief administrator who helps us put maybe some important policies in place to make everything run smoothly while new

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numbers and stuff might be a big factor in that. >> Okay. Okay. What are your thoughts on using intermunicipal agreements to tackle fiscal and organizational challenges for towns and its neighbors?

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>> Love it. So, we have an intermissible agreement with the town of Charmsford for a sealer of weights and measures. So, the Northern Middle Sex Council of Governments, our RPA, was doing the uh weights and measures for all nine communities. And then they found that

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they they had the one guy that was doing it and he was retiring and nobody wanted to do it. So, they were kind of like, "All right, towns, have fun. Figure it out." Um, and if you're under a certain size, the state will do it. Um but Jerry was not small enough and I don't think

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town's small enough. So um you know finding those opportunities for I thought it was under like five that was a really low number. >> Oh to be able to have the state do I could be wrong or 10 >> we're consider we're considered in the

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small town uh >> size. Yeah,000. >> Yeah. For the for the weights and measures threshold it's really really low. that just that specific avenue. Um so amongst the nine of us, LOL's like, "Oh, we'll go hire our own inspectors." Like, "Cool."

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>> Measures inspector >> in town. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um so we have we share one with Chumsford. Chumsford hosts that person and we pay them annually um to facilitate their um their benefits and and pensions and things like that. And

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so that's that's one. We also share uh animal control with Laura. Um, that's been a long-standing agreement. Um, and I it's a really it's a really good tool, honestly. Um, because some of these harder to fill positions, >> you know, it there's sometimes not even

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enough work to want a full-time position. Then you see the kind of push and pull of like you try to offer a part-time and someone's like, "No benefits, no thanks." Like, >> and even if you try to up the the hourly pay to make it a little sweeter, you're still kind of coming up empty. So, I

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think intermunicipal groups are an excellent tool for for things like that. >> Um, how would you handle employee and public perception when managing union and non-union employees under different rules and contracts? Mhm.

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So I think across all groups, it hearkens back to the point I made earlier, which is doing what you say and saying what you're going to do, but then also not overpromising, right? You don't want to

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set expectations that you can't deliver on, but also being mindful of what the external pressures are. um what are comparative uh comparable towns paying for those positions? What do those union negotiations look like? We we experienced it with um our teachers. You

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can see they can point to well Bara got this and Wilmington got this and being able to factor that in, but having realistic conversations because ultimately if the numbers don't work, they don't work. and saying, "Okay, well, you want

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this increase, but that's we can only accommodate this many teachers, this many paras, this many administrators, what have you, to be able to achieve that." And just really being realistic about where the negotiation actually is.

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It's not going to be no one's going to walk away thrilled, but if everyone can walk away reasonably comfortable and at least understanding how we got to where we got to, I think that's really important. And as far as union versus

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non-union, I I haven't seen that play out negatively in Tukbury. What I will say is, you know, when the union positions negotiated an additional personal day, all the non-UN folks got it as well. Um, just to make sure that

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those benefits are all still in in the in the same level. >> It is a tricky balancing active time, especially when budgets become really tight >> and honoring both sides of that point. >> Yeah. And I think it's really just a

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matter of um hearing everyone out, being realistic about what the projections are, and then being able to illustrate what different scenarios look like because you don't, it's not, you know, we don't want to be an arbitrary decision, but people need to understand the consequences of what they're asking

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for. Um, so I have this little question. What steps have you taken to prepare for this interview? And based on what you learned about the town, what would be your priorities and approach during your first six months as town administrator? >> So, what I've done in preparation um

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definitely is uh reviewing the financial statements and audits. Um looking through the uh the budget, going through some of the last few town meeting warrants. Um, and really what I'd be looking for in

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the first six months, um, like was already previously discussed, I'm facilitating strong relationships with and between department heads, um, demystifying the budget process a little bit. I think that that's a place where um, good visual tools can be really helpful in helping people understand the

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breakdown of budgets, you know, how much goes to what, you know, that kind of 60/40 split between school and town. um and clearly defining trade-offs, scenarios, and and what overrides look like and what you're going to get with or without it. Um collaborating with neighboring towns, so intermunicipal

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agreements, regionalization where it makes sense. Um and again, evaluating capital needs and figuring out kind of a baseline of where everything is. um looking at standard operating procedures because that was something that was mentioned in one of the audits.

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Making sure that there's um just kind of some standardization across operations to make sure that everybody's kind of operating off of the same same set of rules and whatever the board feels is necessary as far as establishing their own uh rules and regulations because you

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don't want to regulate stuff to death. If you don't have guidance on where to go, then something as simple as having a a flag policy for town buildings can be a weird thing that can create tension that I've seen. Um, but ultimately being

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a strong communicator of towns and priorities. And that's going to come from meeting people, listening to people, and understanding what comes first for for all of you guys and um and carrying out the priorities of the board. ultimately I I would be an

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agent of you all and you're the ones who are elected uh by by your your fellow residents and that carries a significant amount of weight. So administering some some judgment where necessary but ultimately I be carrying out what what believes

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best. we'd like to open up the floor for you to, you know, hit on anything we may have missed or open ask us some questions, ask us some questions and see if we can help you respond and then add them last again.

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>> Um, so I guess I I I'll go with the question where you guys you folks are all saying like that there's, you know, definitely the the turnover's contributed to a little bit of lack of trust perhaps and in the public process. Where where do you see opportunities um

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for increasing outreach? Like where because you know I I know where I go in Chesbury, but where where do you folks go? Like where where are the places that people go for their information and go to have discussions about about town

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operations? >> I have to say something. Um, I think that we first off when I got on it was to fill vacancy >> and uh knowing that we had a brand new

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TA with no experience and then the second person came on. We were 6 weeks without um a select board in 2024. Wow. >> So there was one select person. It was basically the town clerk and the new

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administrator who was running the town for that time. So as soon as we had our first meeting, all of a sudden we were not transparent. Now I've done a lot of years in town hall in a lot of committees, chaired a

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lot of committees, done a lot of things, and was never called transparent. But this seat has the uh I guess you have the ability to be called all kinds of things whether you've done them or not. And um

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I I couldn't dwell on that. There was too much going on in the sea. We were on video. All of our meetings were on on camera. People could get the information if they wanted to get it. So

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I think being visible and talking to people, you know, or answering questions of those people who actually called you, you know, to find out the actual information versus reading Facebook is probably the only way that I had any

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resolve knowing that I wasn't responsible for their comments. Sure. >> You know, um so you kind of have to be adult about it. Yeah. Um I we've had we've had a rough time. Um and Sarah is is brand new coming on and Val came on

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in April um of 20. So, um, it wasn't until the end of December that we actually got somebody that understood our position

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and could help us through um the last 6 months. >> And I think I think the we've touched on some of you know the outreach that we think we could help with. >> Yeah. you know, in being directly, you

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know, in the community and and you know, having like select board hours or whatever it may be. And you know, unfortunately when you're putting out so many fires >> and the scene, that's why we need this position. >> Sure. >> To be doing all that so then we can

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We were also fortunate at our first meeting, our special town meeting, D was not on yet. It was March 10th of 2025 where our 42 hours of working with the finance committee was blown up on town

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meeting floor where they took our free cash and committed the school budget to our budget which we had which was not the planning that we had done for

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uh December, January and February prior. prior to the March meeting. So it was almost like okay we did all this and then we're put into chaos >> which continued >> the power of town meeting. Right. >> Right. Which continued. So

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and with not having people that were experienced to guide us through this. Um it was difficult. >> Yeah. I'm sure. And um just kind of in response to that, I mentioned to the chair uh during our previous meeting

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that one of the things that I make sure that I'm doing every day is responding to everyone who has reached out to me. Even if I don't have the answer to what they want, even I don't have the answer that they like, I make sure that I respond. And if something can be

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resolved immediately, someone wants a document from a file. Well, I I do know that there are communities that will say, "Oh, file a public records request." Well, why am I going to throw a book at them when I literally know where the piece of paper is? I can scan it to them. So, I I've been called

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brutally efficient with communications. sometimes to the point where I answer before, you know, another answer has come up, which I'm working on, you know, but I I do endeavor to be not only accessible but responsive because I think a big issue with the image of

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government, you know, capital G, but also at the local level is that like I mentioned earlier that communications in an email or a voicemail, they go there to die. They don't die with me. Anybody who reaches out to me, you're going to hear back with me, hear back from me

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within 24 hours max. And that's even if it's just to say, "Hey, I got your call. I have so and so looking into it. I'll get back to you when I have the answer." Um, and even if it takes a week or two, I often find that people are appreciative that they were acknowledged and that there was follow through

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because it's easy to say, "I'll I'll check on and I'll get back to you." but then to actually do it. >> I just in my personal experience, I found it difficult sometimes to find the information that I'm looking for at any given time. Um, and I'd definitely just like to see I would love to see some

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sort of newsletter whether it follows the select board meetings every two weeks or it's something that's done monthly, but just kind of like, you know, a very short brief, you know, explanation of like what's going on, what things are being worked on. Um and in addition to a newsletter also like

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really posting about wins when you get a grant when something great happens when a project is completed you know and you know showing the good side as well as the work that is being done. Um and the work's not always great and not always you know we're making decisions that you

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know we don't always want to make but we have to work within the confines of the budget that we have. So, but just really just putting it out there simply, not >> you know this long thing that makes it difficult to understand, but very simply. >> Um, and I know that we're on TV and everything all the time, but people have

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jobs and kids and sports >> watching expect them to either. >> No. So, they can't be here. They can't be watching all the time. So getting it out there so that people don't have to go search for it that it's readily available whether it's the website

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Facebook posting somewhere else and it's digestible. >> Yep. That's certainly something that I've seen a lot of area town managed in moment. Um Dunable does that, Westford does that and I think it's something that's generally wellreceived and I do that on a much smaller scale. Right now at planning board meetings, the chair

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gives me the opportunity to give a report at every meeting. So about twice a month and I'll highlight you know uh activities that are happening in the community events, updates on projects. Um you know the this Saturday the historical committee, excuse me, historical commission is hosting uh

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their annual meeting of the library. They're going to be doing a walk through um Chuksbury as a part of the 250th. So pointing people to those things, pointing people to all of the 250th celebrations that are happening across the state. Um but then also, oh hey guys, remember that permit that you that

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special permit you issued three years ago? They just broke ground and kind of talking about those major um points, but then hey also the finance committee is meeting next week and you all should pay attention to that. So using those opportunities with a little bit of a captive audience and maybe they don't care about that, but they're going to

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learn about it anyway. And so I'd just like to add one kind of question I had in the back of my head previous with you was um as a first time permanent TA, what resources do you

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think would be helpful from our board and from the community that you would need to call on? Sure. Um, so I'm really very fortunate that I do have a lot of town managers that are currently serving and town managers of past that I um am

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friends with um that so I have my my past uh town manager who has acted as a mentor to me since the day I got to town hall and he retired two years ago and I was crushed um because he was he was you know just a rock star to work for and

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really opened my eyes to all of the opportunities within um government recognizing that I had a an an aptitude for it, but also that I had a desire to learn and to get more involved. And every time I finished with something else, I wanted to learn a little bit more. So, he was the one who set me up

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for the MCPO certification, which I currently hold. Um sending me to Treasure Collector School and really tapping into anything I wanted to learn about. And and he's still somebody that I'm in contact with today and I talk to regularly. Um and he even though he's

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retired, he's still an absolute junkie for this stuff and and he did let it go >> and he did it for almost 30 years. So um you know he's offered himself as a resource to me and I am I'm super thankful for that. But I also have relationships with a lot of the managers in the area. So um Andrew over in Pep,

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Jason over in Dunable, Kristen in Westford, um a lot of the Northern Middle Sex Council of Go. So well was Paul Cohen and Chumsford until he uh he tapped out to go to Exit New Hampshire. another one we're all very sad for. Um, but I have I have a lot of um folks that

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I can call on for advice. Um, but really as far as the board support, it would just be, you know, you got to tell me where the where the the potholes are, >> right? So, you folks are the ones on the ground. You live here. You breathe. And

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as much as I put everything I have into where I work, as I'm I'm super committed to any work that I do, ultimately I'm not here 24/7. So I would be looking for you folks for guidance on, you know,

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what what are people saying at at GOME down the street? What what's coming up? What's a pain point that maybe hasn't made its way to town hall yet? Okay. any anything else? >> Thank you so much for coming in and it's

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been a pleasure talking to you and as I said at the beginning, I think you know this has been a pleasure for me getting to know our candidates and talking to everybody that you earlier. You guys both really have done a great job of coming in here and just

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explaining everything that you know we like to hear. And I'll say that I think um it's kind of big broad statement. I think that Massachusetts is lucky to have this up and coming group of newcomers coming learning about and it's just it's really it's really

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wonderful to talk to all you guys and your new thoughts on everything. >> Yeah, it's it's hard work but it's it's work that I love to do. >> Wonderful. So um we're going to take five five minute recess and then we'll regroup together as a backward if that's

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okay. Tam, you're uh you're going to another recess, right? >> Yeah. Just we'll just be five minutes and take a little refresh and then the board will come back to discuss amongst ourselves the next agenda item. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, Harley.

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>> Excuse me. >> One second. Let me just my next series of notes here. agenda. >> So that was wonderful. >> Very exciting. Very exciting. >> Good job. >> I think every uh Yeah, screen committee

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did a great job. >> We it >> J and the sorry police chief and my reductory instrument on the process really. He was on. He was on. But thank you to both of them as well. >> Yep.

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Give me one second. Apparently my I was logged out of SharePoint during that time frame. So pull that back up. So uh 4.2 deliberation on town administrator candidates.

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So um I'm just going to pull up another little thing here. >> Did you call back? Oh yes, I'm sorry. Resuming at 7:02 for a brief minute. Um, so I'm going to invite the board to have some thoughtful

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comments on its strengths and what they feel they could contribute to this town. Um, it's something that we should take seriously because it's probably one of the biggest decisions we make as a member of the staff board. a lot of staff members never get to choose a town administrator because you know longevity

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or just return the turn of events when they're a stack member. So, um, if we do this correctly, it shouldn't have to be done that often. And I feel that it's a process that, you know, this board is ready to take on and we're really lucky that, you know, we have

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these two really good candidates and, um, I think they present some opportunities for. So, and I was lucky that I've already got to speak to them on the screen for me. So yeah, >> I'm really interested to hear your thoughts and um kind of contemplate what

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you have seen and heard. >> Who would like to start? >> You want to go? Start. You start there. Go ahead. >> I can start. >> Go for it. >> Okay. I mean, I thought I I thought they both did great. Um they um both

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presented well. Um, you know, Alex is coming from a much larger town where it seems things have been very successful there and she's been able to do a lot of implementation of projects. Um, and you know, the open gov software that she

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was talking about, online permitting, I mean, that sounds like a wonderful project that really, you know, moved some processes along in that town. um that she's open to regionalization with, you know, certain jobs is

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definitely something we're going to need to be looking into. Um, you know, during our budget talks for next year. So, that's great that she you know, is on board with that. Um, she carried herself very well. >> Yeah.

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>> So, you know, we have the benefit of knowing our either candidate in advance. So yeah, >> it's a hard hard to walk into. >> It is. Yeah. >> Knowing that. So I a lot of respect for that >> and um I agree with you. I think I've

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said it so many times that any town is lucky to have you these standards. >> Yeah, I agree >> 100%. >> I do. >> I have a little concern that maybe she doesn't know maybe all the nuance with regards to the budget or didn't do a deep enough dive

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into the budget and how difficult this year is probably going to be. Um, as our interim town manager pointed out at annual town meeting, like it's there are going to be a lot of tough decisions for next annual

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town meeting that have to be made. Um, >> she was very >> Sorry, I didn't hear you. >> I asked if she was at the meeting. >> Oh. if she did attend. I did I I didn't

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ask her to project. I asked her, but um I did feel that she's very ex enthusiastic that you know about everything that she has done and what she'd like to do and she presents

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herself very well. Um it's it's hard not to like her >> and and recognize all that. Um sitting in the seat that I've sat in

414
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since I got in and what I have gone through with the TA position. Um, it feels more comfortable knowing Karen and what he's been able to do in the short period of time that he's been

415
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here. Um, it's a little scary for me to think. Oh, it's fine to admit that. >> Yeah. not um continuing with what he's done when and

416
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knowing that he even came into this position with what he knew was happening. Um, I just I think that you guys did a great job

417
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and um if it wasn't it might be different if he was already not working for us, >> you know, and we already have had the experience of some very good things that have happened, you

418
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know, since he's been with us. Um, I just I just feel that my my allegiance I guess would be to pour in for the town's benefit is to stay with them.

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>> I think there is an aspect of this too that as we've all acknowledged, I think both these candidates really have a lot of potential with the ground. Um there's a certain amount of transition that's going to happen when we you know

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for a full-time administrator it's possible >> and knowing how the knowledge of our budget right now and how quickly we're going to have to really start presenting and preparing what happens next year with union negotiations not complete.

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Police union negotiations starting on the 9th >> from the failed override and some additional issues that you know we can't even elaborate on as much as we probably would like to at this point in

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time. Um having that handoff I think it we would manage it fine. It would just be an additional operational burden that I think we have to consider at this point in time based on the two really great candidates that that would be the

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case. That's >> and I think that makes a big difference knowing where we are in a lot of matters that we are in right now. some consistency might be beneficial.

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>> I think I think that one of the goals of the unregistered scheme community is actually encouraging longevity is actually our first goal which I found kind of interesting when we all started talking initially that that was in it's that sense that there's just this constant turnover in this building which

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is understandable. It's been a lot of pressure for situations >> financially now. Yeah, financial um you know it's a our community is very passionate and that comes out in all the way you mentioned and um I agree with

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your guys assessment and a hard decision because yeah big one >> because she's also an excellent candidate >> 100% and I've said both like talk to six people free from each their references like geez can we just hire them but you

427
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know I think I think that I think there's, as I've said to a couple people, you know, with a lot of older town administrators facing retirement, there's this newer group of individuals that are really dedicated to public service. And it's very very optimistic

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for you know 320 some odd communities in common wealth to know that these people are stepping into these roles in any town is going to kind of benefit from this much enthusiasm and you know hard work and it's going to be a lot to learn. I think both of these candidates

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you know Alex hasn't turned one for six months. There's a lot there but I think that's where our board and you know our spring teams help. Any other thoughts you want to share? >> Well, just that in our position with us

430
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knowing what we have to deal with in the next few months, um I I'm not sure I'm comfortable with somebody new and inexperienced coming in to the position. having been with

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somebody who was inexperienced in the position and not having the guidance that we needed to get through what we needed to get through. >> So I think Karen has a great grasp on

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steps the town needs to take these relationships with department heads. >> Yeah. >> Um set the stage for things that are to come. He's done, I'm sure, a lot of the things that she said she would do. >> Yeah. >> So,

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>> yeah. I mean, he's had six months. >> Exactly. And and you know, that ramp up time. And I think also too like we've seen like acknowledging where he's not sure or apologizing when those get stepped on and errors made

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which is going to happen because we've had so much turnover that as we discussed in the interview questions rebuilding that trust is going to require a lot of humility and honesty for us and the town ministry's office. But I'm really hopeful that having got this bigger board and having a permanent

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time to make sure that we can post our environment. >> He's got the six months in like he could hit the ground running versus Alex would need to take that time to start building those relationships. >> I can't blame her. It just part of the process. That's it's just the situation

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at hand really. And I think she would do a great job with that. But we just I'm sure she would. >> We have that benefit in this. some things again that we can't discuss at the moment >> that we need to continue on the path >> that we're on. >> Seriously think that she would have been

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better when I first came on. >> Yeah. >> than when I had. >> Yeah. 100% 100%. >> So, um would you like a motion? >> Um yes. Would you like to move to a >> I'm losing my agenda. So uh 4.3 you're

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if if the board is good with 7.4.2 I would be happy to. >> Yes. I Laura Shiffren move to offer the position of town administrator to Kieran Mian subject to successful contract negotiations.

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A second >> Sarah Logan second point. Um any more deliberations? >> No. >> Um I just want to thank you both too. I know you put a lot of trust in me to come to you. >> You did a great job

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>> and the library director and police chief. >> Yes. Thank you. >> And um there's a lot of hours and it was great working with them and you know coming up with these questions. The public comment from the community is sharp. >> The screening process actually was really really helpful. A lot of what you saw in those questions, I took that

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community feedback along with the screen community information and tried to really narrow it down and we got both under you. >> Yes. >> So, um, >> you want to vote? You want to >> um,

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you're ready to vote. >> We're ready to vote. Are we going into executive session after that for we can have a discussion just to start things off >> probably and then we'll kind of see where to go then with labor council and okay everything. a little vote on your

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motion and then head to executive session. >> You with that? >> Okay. >> Take a little call vote. Put a motion on the floor. >> Sarah Leven. Yes. >> Yes. >> And um thank you again. I can't thank

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both of my >> Okay. Excuse me. Are you going to executive session right now? >> Um Yep. Just give me one minute. Do you have a motion? >> I I do have a motion for executive session. Um just give me one minute, Harley. And then um we will be adjourning from executive session too.

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Let me just make that motion. Okay. >> Okay. Well, if you're going to executive session uh right now, I will put this on pause and then I'll start recording again. >> No, no, no. We're I'm going to make the motion, Harley, and then we're going to adjourn from executive session if that's

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okay. >> Okay, fine. So, I'll keep going for now and I'll wait until you formally adjourn into executive session. >> Yes, that would be great. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. Um so item number six I Valerie Gooditch

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um move to enter into executive executive session pursuit to open ME law chapter 3A21A2 to conduct strategy sessions in preparation for negotiations with non-UN personnel and contract negotiations with

448
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non-UN personnel. Town administrator um >> can I go back one second? >> Yeah. um that 4.3 I have a conditional offer that will be presented to the candidate just a signature that I forgot

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to tell you all about. >> Okay. Right. >> And then we'll wait for response from the candidates. >> Okay. But along those lines, um, executive session pursa, section 212 to conduct strategy sessions

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in preparation for negotiations with non-un personnel and contract negotiations with non personnel, town administrator and I serve. >> So move Sarah Logan. >> Any questions? I just >> Are you seconded for motion?

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questions for I >> Sarah Logan I and again we don't know if our will accept yet but um we just want to discuss what we can possibly present right your contract so thank you so much and good night everybody we're going to

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be adjourning from executive session thank Here.