I'd like to call the uh meeting of the board of selectmen uh to order on May 22nd, 2025 at 7:30 p.m. Is there a roll call, please? Good
present. Veronica Cal present. I call for a joint meeting with the board of health and the board of selectmen today, May 22nd, 2025, 7:30 p.m. I call for a roll call. Dr. Commission Roman Ram
chairman and Denald present. Um, do I need to call our joint meeting to order? I was going to go through the whole thing at the beginning. So, I'm going to finish going through the preliminaries and then I'll call the joint meeting. Uh, so please join me for the pledge of
allegiance. Allegian to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Um, I'd like to announce that the
meeting is being recorded and uploaded to YouTube. Is there anyone else who is recording? All right, seeing none. Um, chairman's additions or deletions. I have none. Do you have any Does Nelson have any? Sabrina, do
you know? No. Okay. We don't have anything. Okay. Um, uh, we have no meeting minutes to review. So with that, I'll call the joint meeting of the select board with the board of health um to order to
discuss solid waste proposal and funding sources at 7:32 p.m. And I don't think we need a roll call on that. Uh so before uh we talk about um what the reason for our meeting, I want
to present the Massachusetts Association of Health Boards, uh Mr. Mike Hugo and Miss Cheryl Sabara who going to talk about the border health and its relation with trash. Um I don't know if Tam can
um allow um Mr. Hugo the presentation so that he if he has any slides so that we are able to see it's actually who who would like to uh screen share. Yes please. Who would like to screen share? I feel
though. Actually, it's going to be Cheryl's going to be doing the initial presentation. Cheryl Sabara is the one. I'm sorry, Tam. Okay. So, Cheryl, you can do your screen share and your slide. Um, I need to be given permission. I have it. Oh, nope. I
have it. Hold on. They gave it to you. Um, can you see? Yes. Okay. Um, let me put it in slideshow. Okay. Can Are you seeing the presentation mode or are you seeing We're seeing the presentation mode.
Okay. Uh, see how do I get it out of presentation mode? And slideshow. End it and start it again. Okay. Slideshow from beginning.
And it's going back to we may have to just do it in if you go to the bottom the very bottom of your screen where you have the side the little slider thing that has the size of the slides bottom right corner there's a
picture of a screen. I think if you hit that one there it'll do it. Oh no. And then it fans with the Hold on. just have to go. I think we're now we don't see
anything. Right. Right. We see you. Hold on. Oh, I see it. I see what happened. Hold on. It went over to my other your other screen. Yep. This is why I don't do this.
So, we're just going to have to go with this unless You got it now. You're good. I'm good. Okay, great. Um, I apologize for the delay. Um, just to introduce myself um to you folks, my name is Cheryl Sabara. I am the executive
director and senior staff attorney for the Massachusetts Association of Health Boards. And I am here with my colleague Mike Hugo, who is the director of government relations um for MAHB.
Um now is it's not moving. Okay. So first I want to make it very clear that we I MAHB is just providing this information forformational purposes for educational
purposes only. Um this is not legal advice. you have um a municipal attorney who represents towns and um and and we do not enter into attorney client relationships. So legal advice can only
come from your um municipal attorney. And just a tiny bit about us, we are a nonprofit membership association. We were established in 1982 and we provide legal education,
technical assistance and training to board of health members, health directors, staff, um public health nurses, municipal officials, city and town um attorneys, anyone who is looking for some more in legal education on
public health issues in public health law. So I I just want to review um for a minute um where boards of health get their legal authority from and they get it directly from the state legislature.
Um the state legislature has delegated its authority to um protect the residents of the commonwealth to boards of health directly from the legislature. So that power is normally called the
police power and it's it's to protect the health, safety and welfare of residents and um so we're constantly doing this balancing test when we are a board of health member. Um we're
constantly looking at um an individual's freedom, the right to engage in business and the right to protect public health safety and welfare. And sometimes that is even at the expense of individual freedom or the right to engage in
business. And an example of that is we require motorcycle helmets when you're riding a motorcycle. Um that's an expense of that that's infringing on someone's individual freedom. But we think that
there's a paramount right there to protect public health. In business, we prohibit smoking. in enclosed workplaces that can sometimes get in the way of engaging in business, especially when you're looking
at restaurants. Um, that argument was used a lot, but that was a balancing test that was done by the legislature and by local boards of health in looking at the paramount right of government to protect public health. So, um, our Supreme Judicial Court,
which is the highest court in, um, Massachusetts, has consistently throughout the decades, upheld this authority. And as I'm sure you know, a board of health regulation stands on the same footing as a town bylaw, a city
ordinance, or a state statute, or a state regulation. and all um rational presumptions when those are challenged are um made by the court in favor of the validity of that regulation. And courts
have held consistently in Massachusetts that they will only strike a board of health regulation when the challenger proven proves the absence of any conceivable ground upon which the regulation could be upheld.
So in, as I mentioned, in Massachusetts, the state legislature has delegated the bulk of its authority to local boards of health. They may pass a public health law um but boards of health can pass a
law that is stricter than a state public health law in Massachusetts. So, um the state laws do not prevent cities and towns from further um regulating in that specific
area. So, I just want to um just bring to everyone's attention, and I'm sure you clearly know this, but but I just wanted to bring a couple of um laws to um the attention of both boards here.
Um, you have a charter and your charter indicates that boards of health are responsible for formula formulating and enforcing all rules and regulations um relative to public health. and the board um pursuant to your town charter states
that your charter states that the board shall have all powers and duties given to boards of health under um the laws of Massachusetts of your charter of your bylaws and any other town meeting vote.
So that's one law I just wanted to um um to to mention. Another law that is on the books in Townsen is the article 9 which addresses the removal transport and disposal of solid waste or
recyclables in the town of Tons Town Townsen. This law was adopted in 2019 and amended in 2023 and it requires um permits for all haulers and it is enforced by the board
of health. that that's a a a local law that is um on the books in your town. Then we have a couple of state laws that I just wanted to mention that are contained in chapter 111 which is the
chapter in Massachusetts general laws that addresses public health. And section 32 of that chapter says that the um local board of health um issu must issue a permit for someone who would be
hauling um waste through the streets of any city or town. Um that permit cannot be transferred without the approval of the board. and that um when you're transferring when you're
um transporting waste, you need to do it in accordance with board of health rules and regulations and you need to register with the board of health and clearly municipal owned vehicles are not subject to these rel these requirements but
everyone um any other hauler would be. And then the last law I just wanted to bring to your attention is that boards of the that 31B of chapter 111 specifically gives board boards of
health the legal authority to make regulations relative to waste. And just a little um a little snapshot on what boards of health what laws and regulations boards of health are charged with enforcing.
This is just one picture of them. And you will see under environmental regulations, you've got hazardous solid waste, septic garbage, um and then many many other um areas of the law that boards of health are um responsible for
enforcing. And here's just another look at the exact at at another way of looking at the same um issue. So you will see that the there are many areas um that boards of health are
specifically required to enforce including whatever local regulations the board may have adopted. I know Towns and has some um tobacco sales regulations on the books as well. And I think that is the end. Um I'm happy to answer any
question but I just wanted to review just some of the relevant laws to um the discussion that is going to take place and I will end there. Is there any questions from the
community or anybody here present regarding the presentation? Okay. not having any comments or any questions. We want to thank the Massachusetts Association of Health Boards, Miss Cheryl Sabara and Mr. Mike
Hugo for their presentation and and and with this information, we we we really appreciate all your efforts. Thank you. Uh I think we are ready to go to
um from our agenda the joint meeting uh with the select board to discuss um the trash alternatives, the budget fiscal year 2026 pay as you throw program trash contract extension and the general
revolving pound. So today we had a meeting with the FIM a joint meeting with FIMCOM and the board of health presented um uh the new curbside trash and recycling program implement
implementation plan um and it's divided in phases and I'll I'll give reading to to this um for phase one for fiscal year 2026 pilot the funding the board of health will bring an article before the
town meeting to establish a curbside solid waste recycling enterprise fund. An enterprise fund isolates revenues and expenditures from the operating budget and allows the board of health to retain earnings on funds
yearoveryear. Pays as you question. When do you want questions? Do you want them as you go or do you want them at the end? At the end, please. Okay. Uh pay as you throwbacks will continue for fiscal year 2026 as current rates. Um flat fee
will be $125 per household will be implemented. Um subdivision from general stabilization fund of $160,000 to launch the pilot program. Pay as you throw grant funds will be deposited in to the enterprise
fund. um fiscal year 2025 payroll expenses to be submitted by June 30th, 2025 to capture portion of the $62,000 max of the pay as throw program grant will be applied to the fiscal year
2020 2026 stipen for administration, sticker costs, mailings, education expenses, and other necessary expenses outside of the Shaw's contract. The board of health will actively seek grants and other funding sources to
offset cost to residents. And note that unexpended articles, it was requested by the select board that the board of health look into all unexpended warrant articles to be reallocated to this pilot program to reduce the
amount needed from general stabilization. The board of health followed through on this request and was informed by the accountant that she is unaware of any remaining unexpend unexpended articles. A contract the Shaw contract
for collection only will be selected for this pilot program. The actual tonnage cost of disposal results in estimated savings of $30,000 to $40,000 as compared to all inclusive contracts.
Municipal trash and tarnish are excluded from this contract. And any and all expenses relating to municipal trash will be paid from the from the general fund. Wait, not the enterprise fund. The the
municipal trash. The the municipal trash and Spanish are excluded from from this con from from this contract for the month of July 2025. The board of health has negotiated an extension of the current contract in order to allow
households time to register and obtain their sticker for uninterrupted service. This expense has been factored into the flat fee cost for the year. The method of operation is the participating households will register for curbside
trash and recycling by paying an annual fee of $125. A sticker will be issued to each household with a unique identifying number. The sticker must be placed on a receptacle. Any any receptacle is
acceptable. The sticker must be visible to the truck as it approach. Purple bags will still be required for trash. Unlimited recycling will will still be included. The board of health will continue to manage any issues related to
pickup for all registered households and fees will not be prrated. Um, additional information. This pilot year will be critical to creating long-term stability for our town curbside trash and recycling
program. Throughout the pilot year, the board of health will will collect valuable data necessary to set strong foundation for the program's future. Phase two for fiscal year
2027 transition and the overview is that pay as throwbacks will continue in order to allow access to remaining grant funds without repayment. The pay throw program did not begin until October 1st, 2024
and the pay throw grant was not signed until February 5th, 2025. We are required to maintain the program for at least two years which will bring us to fiscal year 2027. A flat fee per household will
continue with the rate to be based on the data collected during fiscal year 2026. participating household actual tarnish cost etc. as well as the contract cost negotiated with Shaws and
any other available funding resource funding sources. The sticker program for fiscal year 2026 will remain in effect. Fiscal year 2026 pay as throw expenses will be submitted by June 30th 2026 to
capture remaining portion of the 62,000 max of the pay as you throw grant. These funds will be applied towards their fiscal year 2027 stipen for administration, sticker costs, mailings,
educational expenses, and other necessary expenses outside of the SHA contract. The board of health will determine what contract option will be the most beneficial to the residents. The board of health will actively seek grants and will consider any and all
potential funding sources to determine what is the best interest of the community for phase three fiscal year 2028 and future years stability. Pay to throwbacks may be eliminated. Uh the board of
health but on the one that I find that that has the signature That's why you may be eliminated. The border health will be responsible for negotiating and selecting a curbside contract that is
most beneficial to the residents. The border health will will maintain authority to set necessary fees rel related to the curbside trash and recycling. The border health will continue to actively seek grants and will consider any and all potential
funding sources to determine what is the best interest of the community. Tolds may be upgraded depending on available funds. Decisions regarding the curbside trash and recycling program will be made by the board of health based upon
factual data collected during the pilot and transition years as well as public input and collaboration with the finance committee. And this was the plan that the board of health and the finance committee had signed unanimous um
regarding this plan that we're presenting at this joint meeting with the select board. Okay. So, how do you want the questions? Um, because I have several. Go ahead. I can my mind then I'll go
ahead. Do you want to do it section by section? Um, phase one funding and um and then we can go to contract. All right. Um, an enterprise fund. Can this be established in a special town meeting? Well,
according to what I understand, yes. And we have a article a warrant art a voter have article for that. Actually, did you confirm with um town council that you can establish an enterprise fund in a
special town need in my understanding? Yes. So you did confirm with um because initially initially we had and Carla came are you there Carla
special meeting? Yeah. Um the the question is where can enterprise funds be established? Can they be established in a special town meeting? And if they cannot can you go with a revolving fund and then in the next year make it an
enterprise fund you know roll the the funds in. So the question is can you establish an enterprise fund in a special town meeting because the window for annual town meeting has passed or adding an article to spe to
annual town meeting. So our initial plan was to increase the amount of of the board of health revolving account for that. But no, you couldn't use the recycling. You could establish in a special town meeting a new revolving fund. You could do that in a special
town meeting. I believe I'm not sure. So I just was wondering if town council had been consulted. So we did we did cons we I did propose um uh a article a
article regarding that and I don't have the paperwork on me right now but we did did a consult with town council regarding um regarding uh whether to in this in in this meeting to present this
to the public but um Nelson Carla, come here. Nelson. Nelson might be there. And Nelson, can you answer the question? Um, so I did speak to Adam a little bit
earlier. I think it was around 5:00 or so for about 15 20 minutes regarding the establishment of a revolving fund or enterprise fund. Um, the revolving fund, yes, that can be done at special town
meeting. the um the enterprise fund that's a little bit more tricky simply because um I guess according to our charter something should have been um submitted you know um prior to March
1st essentially I think there's something in the charter uh or bylaws that that reference that um requirement and I think it was kind of spoken uh on at the um annual town meeting as well. So that might be a little bit trickier
to establish a enterprise fund. Um I can double check with Adam to see if that's possible. Um there would need to be a warrant um to establish it as well as what the budget is going to be and what some of the indirect costs um that would
need to be um sent back to the general um to the uh general fund town budget. Okay. So number the first bullet needs a little more rethink. Um may I ask did um did Adam um was able to
zoom in for the the fincom joint meeting earlier this evening? No. I'm trying to look um the email that he sent over. Can I read the correspondence that I
have from Adam um Nelson if I may? I think you were CC on it too. Yeah, go please go right ahead. Okay. Uh on one paragraph he mentions, I recognize that the warrants closes today. However, and
Nelson can confirm, I believe that placeholders like these meaning either what you circulated creating a revolving fund or what or what I did creating an enterprise fund out to be sufficient to allow us to make a further adjustment in
these coming days. Yeah. So, that is correct. You know, um placeholders is perfectly acceptable. you know, we don't need the actual fully vetted um language to be, you know, um ready right this second. So, that is
absolutely correct. So, um you know, a place order could be um could be done. So there should at least be a placeholder for a um a revolving fund or if an enterprise fund is able to be
established outside of an annual town meeting. So yeah, you do need a placeholder if this is going forward. And and if I may share one concern that Adam had revol uh involving the revolving fund. um what his concern is
um you know you establish a revolving fund with a limit. You you're collecting um revenue from the bags and and the fees um but but Shaw is paid on a monthly basis. you know, you we potentially could run into the an issue
pretty quickly that there's simply not enough funds to pay um Shaw, say, you know, somewhere around the week uh month three or four area. Um you might have um some seed money whether you know there's
been talks about stabilization or um some other means of you know seeding some money whatever money that might be you're probably going to be able to pay Shaw the first month or two maybe 3 months but you know you're going to run
into cash flow issues essentially um you know um kind of early into the program and that kind of puts everyone in a bind you know, Shaw, you know, our they're a business. They obviously want their money in a timely manner. You know, we
can't really ask them to um you know, for us to postpone payment and and it puts us in a bind, too. Uh you know, money only comes in as quickly as it can. So, um what do we do in that situation? And so that was uh one of the
concerns Adam brought up um you know for um how a revolving fund you know financially would would would be solvent. So I I mean I I wish if Carla can can speak up regarding Shaws because the
situation is that is here. Can anyone hear me? Yes. I'm so sorry. um connection um issues. What exactly was the question about the Veronica's question? Please if I may.
So the question is whether whether we are able to establish on this Tom on this town meeting the uh the revolving account the the enterprise account. I wouldn't have that information. and
that's what we're asking town council to answer for us. Okay. So, the first bullet needs some more thought, but a place Mr. Chairman. Yes.
Uh, this is Kim Craraven. So, there seems to be some confusion or question as to whether an enterprise fund can be set up during a special town meeting. um that is authorized under
MGL44. So it it is allowed. So I'm unclear as to why you're being asked that question. So I don't know if you can get uh clarity. The question is can you establish an enterprise fund in town's annual town
meeting? That is the question. Well, it's uh Mr. Chairman, are you not looking at the Are are you I'm trying to get clarity from the the board of health chair. You are requesting this at the special town
meeting. Correct. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Which is allowed under MGL44. So that's why I'm unclear as to why you are being questioned to the actions of the board of health. If you could obtain clarity for that as as a
citizen from the board of selectman, I would appreciate. The question was, can you establish the enterprise fund in the special town meeting? And I was asking that of the board of health and from the board of health from my
information and I could be I if can correct me if I'm wrong but we are able to to request that especially in in in in this special town town meeting it why we couldn't
I just asked Adams insulted and Kim if you have some expertise piece, you know, that's great. But I was asking the board of health, the question was, can this be established in a special town meeting? If if I may, please
go ahead. Um, I I don't find anything in the bylaws or the charter that prevents it. It's it's a state law. So, okay. Thank you. Um, moving on then. Uh this is bullet three and four.
I do not support taking money from stabilization to do this. Last year we took out about 135 from stabilization for trash and an additional 200,000 of ARPA funds had to be changed from where
they were allocated to support trash. So my fear is that come December we're going to be in the same position with do. So question is what happens and this kind of goes with what Nelson was
saying. What happens if DR do in October, November, December comes back and says the funds that you have are not sufficient to maintain the program. Where is additional funding coming from?
So, how I I was hoping to see a spreadsheet with month-by-month numbers um because I would recommend instead of taking money from stabilization, increase the flat rate fee to $200,000 for the first to
$200 per household for the first year. How much are you um how many households are you using in figuring out what you have here? Like I don't see numbers um
saying that it's going to cost this much. We're going to have this much in. What are you anticipating that your household participation will be? So roughly with with with this presentation as I presented on on the special town
hall meeting we we did a number of roughly considerably between 180,000 to 200,000 participants to participate in this program. And if you add it with the
125 plus the fees with the pay as you throwbacks and that would gives give us uh a big cushion on how to finance and according to the finance committee there there there is the funds from
stabilization to help us launch that program but I don't think it will be fair to increase especially in this phase that adding add um adding it from 125 to um to add it to
$225. That's no 200 not 225 to 200 per household. That's um an additional 75 per household which would give you 150k if in fact you have 2,000 people and only for the first year.
after that go back to the lower fee, but it takes it without taking from stabilization. Stabilization is tax dollars. And we had an overwhelming vote that no override trash was included in
that. People do not want to spend tax dollars on trash. So, let's not spend tax dollars on trash. Let's do um let's let's do a higher fee the first year. And if in fact it works the way you hope
it works, then you could in a sense give back some of that the next year if in fact the startup of 150 really does give you what you need interestwise to make this work. I'm just opposed to taking stabilization
fund when we have such a low amount of stabilization. And I'm surprised that FINCOM would support that when they spent several meetings saying we have to put money back in stabilization. We can't take it out. We have to put it back in um when we were doing the
budget. So, I'm surprised that they're they're um supporting that piece of it, not the rest of it. I support having trash pickup in town. And so I played this with number. These are not and with the $200
fee just the first year I give you this. Um, yeah. And Sabrina, um, it would give you
um, it would give it it would work out. If you use more than two purple bags a week, it probably is equivalent. Two purple bags a week, you're good. 505 a year um total for
trash. So I'm looking at what it would cost if you paid Shaws directly. So if you paid Shaws directly, you were you'll be paying 50 a month roughly 600 a year. So to if you keep the cost under 600 a
year for the program that and this is a startup program. So if people are really invested in having trash in the community, I think they would be willing to pay that 200 initi. After that, I would hope it would
drop down to the 125. It's just that we've gotten the money from a different source than the town's emergency funds, which have been hit and hit and hit and haven't been paid back in probably
seven or eight years. Um, I don't know the last time exactly, but I know in the past five years, no money has gone back into stabilization because we haven't had the funds and I don't know that we're going to have the funds to do that going
forward. without an override. So anyway, um that's just my thoughts. Um so yeah, get the money that you need. A related question, and this goes down to contract. The contract that
Shaw wrote, and if I remember right, Mr. Shaw did say he would work with us. That was for pickup for the entire town. This is not pickup for the entire town. and he is maybe all everybody isn't going to
shaw as their holler but I'm wondering if given that we're looking at twothirds of the town or less being part of this program has anybody talked to him to see if he would consider decreasing the um
the collection rate that 480k I think we've been in conversation with Shaws and um if Carla can give us some light about that. Um yes, I I can um if I may. Um we
we are in negotiations with an extension for two months, but there's really I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm not talking about an extension for two months. We
did that last year. Um, and uh I I'm not sure how you're paying for that extension. Um, it it was explained in in um the implementation plan that it would be absorbed in the
$125 flat fee cost. So, what Nelson said is that the projection is you're good for the first three months, but not after that. I um the the my second piece of this is that
it's not only taking money from stabilization but what happens if the town cannot support it we have nowhere else to get money from we then wind up I mean just to make the budget work at annual town meeting there there will be
um you know Kim and Dawn I'm sure think differently because there's magic in the world but there will be staff hours affected And if we have to pay because there isn't enough money in this fund and I'm not seeing projections on month-to-month
projections here which I would the fees the fees are collected monthly Veronica upfront they're they're collected upfront not monthly right so you're good for the first couple of months but not
necessarily after that to pay the I I need to see numbers There needs to be someone figuring out how much you're taking in, how much is going out to Shaw. And I mean,
you this is doable. Um, and because my fear is, and this is what do last year, they came back and said, "You need another $200,000." And if they come back in December and
say, "You need another $200,000." We don't have another $200,000. I mean, that's all there is to it. It's not that we don't want to pay it. Last year, we had money in stabilization, not stabilization. That
was our other option. We had money in ARPA and we chose to take that instead of going and taking stabilization. And I'm not in favor of doing I pay taxes in this town and I would do this program. I I am doing the
purple bags now. Um I am definitely a participant. I don't know that everybody on this call is a participant, but I am. And I would be willing to pay $200 for the front fee to get this going. It's almost like we're doing a
trash co-op instead of a food co-op. And to me, it's worth it to Shaw is working with billing to coordinate the receipts. If if that helps your concern, pardon me, I said Shaw is working with
us for the billing to coordinate with receipts. This is a new This is a no pro pro program for all of us. I know that he's going to we the town will be paying for the um tonnage and
he's going to bring the receipt. So that I understand, but we still have to pay his bill monthly and we have to also pay those tonnage fees. And I without seeing some concrete numbers here, um I'm
not I mean we're like it's like in the wind. Um and and what do we do if and is Shaw's willing um to say okay if you don't have the
funds I'll I will do this quarterly and so that we have time for the pay as you throwbacks to come in. Um, do do you see what I'm saying? Or or are you just saying, "Yeah, let's just go for this so we have trash in town." And if it doesn't work out financially,
well, select board, here you go. Figure it out. And we go and say, "Well, you know, uh, we need more money now. Let's just pull more out of stabilization." I don't think that's a good
plan, you know, to do it that way to not be certain where we're getting the funds from. And so I don't think there's, you know, and if you're using more than two purple big purple bags a week. So by my figures
with a $200 fee, if you're buying, you know, doing one big purple bag every other week roughly, which is about what we do. It's about 3005 a year. That keeps you under the shaws. I'm trying to keep it under the shaw rate. Now I did
this from the participant. I didn't do it from the town side. What is the town going to have to pay each month? I was really hoping to see those details. So, we take in this much, we owe Shaw this much and we think our tonnage is going to be where it is. Is there a point
where it's more than what we have in that account there? You can do projections on that? I haven't done them, but I think they need to be done. So, one bag every other week, 305 a year. If you're doing one purple
bag every week, it's going to cost you about $410 a year with a $200 fee. Um, which is more than the more than the um for the average
household, more than the override would have cost. But hey, we're where we are. All right. If you do two purple bags a week, big purple bags, it's going to cost you 5005 a year. After that, it's diminishing returns. You know, you might
as well go to Shaw. Um, Veronica, can I I've done the numbers on this if I could um give you some of the calculations that I've done because I have contracted out myself so I know what the numbers actually are. um using the weekly basis
the um if anybody with two bags at the is $7 a week in purple bags and if with the at the 125 rate that is meets to me it meets the the point anything over 125 it's more cost effective to actually go
to Shaw because it comes out to $489 a year if you do two purple bags a week and pay the 125 That's $489. If you pay Shaws the lowest rate,
which is $45 a month, um it's $540 a year. So, it's a whole 40 or $50 more a year, just a year to go with Shaw at that rate. So, for $50, I think, is a a
fair convenience fee. Like, it's not worth just the aggravation of purple bags. it's worth going with Shaws at the 125 rate. If anybody's using more than that um more than the two bags, then
it's even more cheaper to go with Shaws. If you go to 200, then you're far exceeding you're far exceeding the break even point of the 540 to go with Shaws on the um on the for the you're going to
exceed $540 a year for um for if you charge people 200 plus if they're using two bags. Now, I also know that as looking at all the the estimate over the months that we've been collecting the data on the purple bag revenue, the
average household is using one and a half purple bags every week. So, people that are up around the two or more definitely they're going to bail or they should bail because of the it exceeds the Shaws the flat fee for Shaws. So
we're going to lose I mean you're going to lose even more people. So the more fees you add on to the consumer there the more people using common financial sense will leave and should leave because they're going to be spending more money and having to run to Hannerfords or wherever to buy their
bags. So hitting that 200 is excessive. it exceeds um only if people want to actually if people like yourself have money and you want to donate to the town the extra 200 then I please do that anyway but you can pay the treasurer
it's taxdeductible donation so but I you know this is the 200 I think is excessive I mean I have other concerns about the whole program but just on that one point um I think that I think that I'm I'm concerned about even the 125
because you're right at the break even point for consumers to make a financial decision. Um I think that might be a little bit excessive itself. I just think that 125 is too low and the program won't work without
stabilization. I think that you'll be back in December saying we need another 150 from stabilization and I think that that's not the way to go. So I am not in favor at all of hitting stabilization.
I think that we should be going back and talking to Shaw and contract and negotiate a contract for fewer. You know, I know that yeah, you have to go through all the streets in town, so you're driving, but you don't have to
stop as much. So, I just think that um you know the the people that are going for um not doing the town thing are [Music]
um are still part of the of what we um received from Shaw for the town contract. I also think that there has to be some sort of how did I put it? um some sort of out for the town. In other
words, some sort of okay, you don't have the funds, you know, maybe not monthly, can we pay quarterly, can we pay um how the payment schedule, can't it be different? And now, seeing as how we're
extending for this says one month, Carla just said two months. Where does the money come from to pay for those first two months? Because if it's the current contract that's at what? 900,000. Yeah. And so divide that by 12
and multiply by two. And where are we getting that money? You are going to empty your bucket before you ever start using it. We do not have the money in the in the general fund in the omnibus budget to cover two months of trash
going forward. It's not there. um a stabilization. I mean, if you want to ask for stabilization, it's a twothirds vote at town meeting. Just know that. Um and I do not support
it because I think that paying a higher fee for the first year is worth it to get the program going. And I think there are enough people in town that would be willing to do it. I understand now that Cindy King isn't one of them, but I do
think there are enough people in town who would be willing to pay a higher fee to not hit stabilization and to keep the program um within town. That's just me. Can we open the comments from the public?
I'm sorry. No, it's okay. It's fine. Um, I think this has to go to the town and it has to be perfectly clear that I'm I'm new to this board, but I have to go with policies to a certain degree. And I'm just going to, like I
said, I um the town will not balance any budget by using one-time or non-recurring revenues to fund ongoing expenditures. So I well I personally may have as a citizen have things I also I'm just
getting used to these and I just think the town's people has to understand what they're doing. So that vote on the town floor of twothirds of people agreeing is really important in this case because they have to know what they're doing. if they agree with that. Okay. And I also
feel like there's a little bit here that people that aren't participating are paying for the program because that's coming from stabilization. That's exactly right. So the town's people just have to understand if you're not using this program, you're still subsidizing
it. And that's fine. If that's what we want to do, fine. I just think we need to get the town. I agree with you guys bringing this forward. I think it's a great idea. I just think it needs that support at town meeting of more than 50% of people because we have to realize
that that that cost if you're not participating in the program, it is your capital stabilization being used to fund the program which lots of things in town get funded that way. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. You can you're holding back. This is a joint
meeting. No, I just think I think I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I think yeah people are still going to fund it because of stabilization but people are are so mad that they're going out and get their own private contracts even it's cost double triple whatever it's
costing relationship tick because they don't want to they want the trash so if we keep it at a low cost I think they might come back but but but we have to be able to afford I understand that but I think and and well those people who they just don't want to do it because of
purple bags it doesn't matter too But if you make it not enticing, but and I understand, believe me, I appreciate all the effort and work that's done to put these things forward. 100%. This town is not in a good fiscal place, and we need everybody working together to figure this stuff out. Full stop. 100%. I just
think it's really important to get that twothird support at town meeting to use those funds. And I don't I don't even know like if this board should vote on it tonight because I think Lori should be heard for that. But and we could recommend or not recommend, but I do think the town people are the ones that
probably should have the say in this. I have to agree. I would like to see the numbers from Shaw because I haven't seen Yeah. And and I think there's going to be some people that really would appreciate having that spreadsheet laid out of here's how the funds what Veronica said. I think I bet Shaz would even do it themselves probably to a
certain degree and lay that out just so then those people who are unsure. There's people who there's certain aspects of it that um some people I've talked to they just like if I get a sticker like can I just put if my neighbor gets a sticker can I put my bag in there think that type of stuff that
just I think having the town's feedback as meeting is really important for this but the the thing also is that Shaw's we right now while we are still negotiating with the contract he's being very flexible towards us too it's not that he
is not overpricing us, but he is we we are working and he working hand to hand and I wish to this moment if we can allow any if anybody from the public has any questions any comments. Yeah, of course. Uh Miss Priest,
thank you Mr. Chair. I was at the FinCon meeting when they discussed this uh the stabilization specifically and voted in favor of it. So I was hoping to add a little bit of context there. um the numbers when they had discussed them I I
know it's being based on 1,800 households which is a estimated 15% drop off of current participation. In addition, it's being based on,300 tons of trash at $110 and $850 tons of recycle at $130. And those
numbers are greater than actuals right now. And actuals also include the municipal portion. I know that the municipal portion that they built into their discussions of the budget was the about 99,900 in month in the dumpsters
and then about 10,000 in tonnage for a municipal for that side of it. But overall the contract this way was saving about $30,000. Um when they were discussing the stabilization fund specifically, they said the balance was
$1,226,026 that the mass best practices recommend 5 to 7% of operating budget excluding the schools and FINCOM prefers 8 to 10%. Uh given that the proposed
select board budget operating budget is 10,826317, we're currently sitting about 11.3% and will remain at 9.9% if 160,000 is applied to this program. So their goal was really to make this affordable to residents as a transition
toward getting to where it needs to be, keeping it affordable under a private so they stick with the town and and get through this till till it's at this stable point. Um I don't agree at all that voters don't want taxes to pay for trash. I think voters didn't want the
override and they get to decide what their taxes pay for at town meeting when the budget is presented. So that's a really broad assumption. Um, so I I definitely don't agree with that. And last year we took another 200,000 out of
ambulance funds, 287,000 out of ARPA because the bill was forgotten to be included on the recap as well as trash and 135,000 out of stabilization. So um, that I pointed this policy out to the select board last year and it was
ignored and not appreciated to be heard. So I just like to point that out as well. Thank you, Miss Craraven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, a few things um especially seeing I was called
out by name um from your joint um board there. Um it's not magic. It's certainly numbers and um there's been a lot of work on the fincom level to think thoughtfully about
the town employees that are on the levy and belong on the levy. Um so Mr. Chairman, what you have done like the fincom is thinking thoughtfully about the budget um that we have within our municipality.
um the funds that are available and think about our community members and what they want. And to the best of my knowledge, the board of health has not asked the question of whether the citizens would like to pay for trash out
of the levy, nor has the board of selectmen. And in fact, in 2001, our community did vote for a tax levy increase override for trash that was for
$600,000. That value of that override is over $1.1 million. That override has brought in over $21 million. So to say our community will
not put levy dollars onto trash seems a little bit misplaced for me that when they are asked the question specifically if they want to fund trash they did indeed do so. I think what has come about is a bit of a quandry
because away after when the the town's people thought that it was in the budget for last year. So that caused a level of complication. Last um December I believe it was end of year there were further
complications with the miscalculation misthought of what might be coming in. So the need for additional funding. What I see your board has done now Mr. chairman is looked very carefully with the staff at the numbers that have been
coming in and very conservatively looked at what the drop off might be. If I look at this from a dollars and cents figure, it would seem that the more people that we get signed up, the better negotiating
power and you yourself have said this going to be phased in looking at it over the years is that does give you the opportunity to make sure that the citizens and their thoughts are taken into account. So I
appreciate it. I also appreciate that um FINCOM understands it it uh seems that the numbers in the stabilization fund are corresponding with what the state requires. So in order
to please sometimes there has to be some takes is one of those give and takes. We also heard from the association earlier that really outlines is in charge of certain things within the community and trash is
clearly under the board of health. Um and FINCOM has the opinion on our budget. They are the ones that when budgets come up they give their opinion. They've given their opinion. It seems in keeping with it. There's also ways that
I know you haven't had the opportunity to discuss because you're of walking before you can run here and especially you have a new board member, but across our Commonwealth, there's other programs that boarded health put in place around trash hauling and that might be
something that you consider in the future uh once you get your enterprise fund. So I think there's possibilities on the horizon for you and as a citizen I appreciate the stance that you've taken with with the staff to really look at the numbers, look at alternatives and
really talk with Shaws. They do seem very accommodating and wanting to work with us. So hopefully you can bring this to fruition and hopefully we can get the message out there that according to the state regulations, stabilization can be used
for any lawful purpose and keeping clean communities um the the whole purpose behind a municipal trash pickup is certainly a lawful purpose. So, I'm here to thank you and certainly will support you in
your efforts um up to and on town meeting floor. I think that everybody here is stating kind of indirectly, but the town's people, not just people in this meeting, need to vote on this and that's who we
need, everybody needs to convince at this point in time. Miss King. Yes. Yes. I I have another comment question uh for the board of health and possibly mass association can help as well with my question. I have a concern about the
implementation of the fees. Um, I've I've read the state sanitation code and it has provided for the allowance for when collecting fees that the if I'm I'm considering rental properties is my
concern that we have a couple of hundred properties that are two and three family and under the purple bags which I'll say the pay as you throw bag fee program the state sanitation code allows for the tenants
are are responsible for purchasing the bags. But when it comes to a fee structure, it my understanding of the state sanitation code is that fee has to be paid for by the property owners i.e. the landlords and that also within this
sanitation code that the landlords the property owners are responsible for providing uh um the trash barrels that the the um I forgot the word that's used but the containers the trash containers they're also responsible for for that
and right now I know that some multif family dwellings the tenants are putting out the purple bags and sometimes it's quite a quite a scene but um if we go to a fee structure what's the implementation plan. Who's going how how does the board of health plan on collecting the fees? Who's going to be
going in and getting these stickers and and how what kind of communication has been planned to coordinate with the property owners if I'm correctly understanding the state sanitation code that the property owners will be responsible for paying the
fee. Thank you. I could go ahead. Okay. So, the the program is going to rely heavily on education. We're going to send out a
flyer. Hopefully, we'll be using the solar signs, the cable channels after the town meeting. I think it will be very um widely known what the new program is. That's why we need a one or two month extension with Shaws because
we're giving the residents 10 days to sign up for this program. And I already have as the municipal recycling enforcement coordinator in 2015, I already have the roots done in a spreadsheet. So, it's very easy for me
as people sign up and the stickers will number on them to put their address there. When this trigger goes on, it will be alerted to Shaws. These are the people that you pick up. So, and it will
become weekly. And as I believe as the weeks go on, more people will sign up. And our trash right now is Tuesday through Friday. So, I'm able to get that list to them on Monday. So, I can give them the list of who not to pick up
because we're looking at the stickers and who's going to be where where the stickers are. Does that that um I think the question is more to the rentals. Yeah. How are the landlords are you how
do you plan on some of the property owners live out of state and they're deal with uh realtors or sometimes property managers? How are you uh going to be and am I correct on the state sanitation code that the property on which my question probably leans over to
the Mass Association folks who are here that um my understanding of the state sanitation code is you can't ask tenants can't be required to pay this fee that it would be the property owners and how is that going to be managed u within the within the town not just educating
people and when you come in and get your stickers who's going in to get the stickers and if the property owner ers don't get the word and their tenants are going to continue to put out the purple bags and the purple bags aren't going to get picked up because you haven't given them the address. Um, how is that going
to be dealt with? And have you considered that difference that tenants pay the purple bags but property owners pay the fee? I think that a lot of property owners don't understand all this stuff. Um, and I because that's not
neighborhood. We we do have um residential customer and commercial customer and landlord and tenant um notices that will go out. We've been sending them out sporadically as the pay
as you throw program has come into effect and there are some dumpsters that are um they're residential dumpsters but they're still putting their recycling in. So we we do have a program in place for this I
guess ahead. I'm thinking landlord. A landlord with two more tenants is probably going to pay for their own contractor versus paying all those fees for two and three family homes fall under the municipal trash contract and the law
that uh they fall under and many of my neighbors, my whole neighborhood is mostly multif family dwellings and uh they're mostly two and three families and they you know they're all under the town. When you go over three, then they cannot participate in the municipal um
trash. But me, most of them do participate in municipal trash contract and not use a dumpster. And that's kind of my my kind of snide remark about the pileup of purple bags that are out there. But they they are they do participate, but if we're going to go to
a trash fee in addition to the purple bags, the tenants aren't going to be paying it, but they're going to continue to put out the purple bags. Mike or Cheryl, do you have any um any comments regarding Miss King's um question? If
I would have to do some research on the housing code. Um, I believe she is correct that the tenants would be putting out the bags and the the own the occupants would be putting out the bags and the landlord would be responsible
for the fee. But I can do some research on that um, and get back to you. Three tenant three tenant house is going to pay more in the in the sticker than they are a dumpster. So they're not going to do the the
sticker anyways. And that's apartments, they already have dumpsters. Most of the apartments have dumpsters. Conent, go ahead. Yes. Hi everybody. I'm Irene Congden. I have two hats on. and I'm a resident here in towns and I'm
also the regional recycling coordinator with Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection and I've been put in this position for over 20 years. I have communities that do both. Um, and it's pretty much if you are under three family, one to three family, you're in a
town program and that each unit pays their own in most cases. So, but the town of Clinton, how they work it is um the landlord deals with if it's over two. So, for one household, it's the
bags. If it's a two family or up, then they have a different price structure. So, there can be for two, three, um a different price structure if we wanted to do that. So because it's really a stop price is
pretty much what um Shaw gives us for that that stop for that household unit and that can be so we can address that on how many households have the two and three family households most you know most of towns it is a one family households that are participating in the
program but first we need to move forward before we can get into those details but we do have both in central mass Thank you. Any other questions here on the floor? Uh, I guess my other concern I would
like to see a breakdown monthto month, July through June. I want to know how the bill is going to be paid for Shaw for July and August, if there's an extension.
um and what the plan is if the fund falls short. These are these are all things I think that the people that aren't attending today who attend meeting might want to know. Like I said, I don't think any of us are against this plan. We they these are the questions that you'll be asked
by some people probably. So, you think the fee fee idea is a good idea? The fee idea? I don't know how else you do it without that. Okay. But you don't think the 125 will work? I don't think you think the 200 will work. You would have to take stabilization.
The 200 will match the stabilization. You just you just have to go to bigger go at town meeting to get stabilization. But but if we met you in the middle at 150 meet you in the middle at 150. Well, I don't I don't think it'll I don't think, like I say, I actually don't think
it's what you have to do. And I need to see monthto-month numbers, you know. So, you're taking in within that first two months, you're taking in those fees at 125. Assume you do get stabilization.
you know that stabilization is going to be gone for the first month. I mean the the fee reasonable we have 3,400 people participating now at that I thought 2,000 he said he was
estimating we're going to lose 40 to 50% of people I think that's but if we can sell this $10 a month is all we're asking them to pay all right $125 okay there's some pennies in there but that's $425,000 if we can get the majority of
people to stay on the program and then it's very fair for somebody who's going to put one bag out every two weeks versus me putting three out every week. I'm supporting the T. I'm staying with the program. Even though it's cheaper, I hear it every day from my wife. Be a lot
cheaper to get the dumpster and a lot easier. I would be out there stuffing the bags on the porch because I can get three bags and sit on it into one purple bag, three little bags. But um I'm I'm I would like to keep the trash
program. Yeah. But I think that you're saying $10 a month. That's all you're asking. The override was asking for $13 a month. And if we had sold people saw the big number um well the
big numbers there anyway, you know. Um, so I don't see um I'm afraid that it it the program will be insolvent within the first six months because you're going to take the
stabilization, it's about 75k per month, my numbers might not be perfect, but if it's a 900,000 that we have the contract with now, and you divide that out, it comes out to 75k a month. So the stabilization that's put in there is
going to be gone in the first two months because the board of health and the revolving fund or enterprise fund, whatever it is, is going to have to pay the fees because we don't have that in the on the bus
budget. So um or you make this rule real quick, you know, so that it can fly by July 1st. Um then maybe but you've got to work out a spreadsheet that shows what you're bringing in and what's going
out. Do that. We had it at some point um for each month 380,000 I think generated now purple Carla but you're not going to you're going to only have
and I haven't bought any purple bags because I don't know what's happening with trash. So, you know, I have purple badge enough to last through the end of June hopefully. Okay. But, um, so I don't think the revenues that you're
going to see and a lot of people have already jumped ship. Um, partially because they don't know why or what's going on. And I think that was that was Yeah, that was the last board. We had two three town administrators that have been involved in this in the past year.
Yeah. And so it's no wonder people are confused and and thing has been like mad craziness. So I think that's why this having it well laid out, bringing it to town meeting and letting everybody have a say
on what they think is I think that's the right I think I think all that's being right now that's the right way to present it to them. And we as a board can discuss this more if we would like recommendation or not. That doesn't have to be in this meeting. You know what I mean? We can we then we would
communicate that to you. But I think you guys presenting it to them and then because some people are going to ask the question if I'm not participating am I paying for it? That's a town service you could say and they do lots of they pay for lots of things they don't participate in but that just
because the the the fee program is not enforced for everybody. No, of course. No, but from because we're seeing stabilization that's why. And so I trust me I hear I hear from everybody and there's people who yes 100% with you and then people who no. So I think that's
why I think we need to bring it to come meeting and let them decide because it's it's for some people at this point in time it's it's they're super super busy. they're looking at maybe the $100 difference if they have
that in their budget and saying I just get I don't have to get purple bags I can just contract and I trust me I don't do that but I'm just saying some people say they just you know so I think that's why we have to present it and hopefully they buy into it because I do I do want to continue the program yeah if you go
independent it's one barrel of trash one barrel of recycling there's no overflow I'm sorry you got to get it in that barrel there's no overflow bags shot. They're not going to pick up two or three medals. You do that $45 a month
and that's it or 50. I mean, does that make sense? My at least I think that because I think the people will tell us at that meeting. And one more thing that we we we that that I've been bringing up with my proposal is
that we would actually try to get the capture the the statistics the the real numbers of people coming in and and and and define a little bit more about the program. So you might get more people if they know that's going to happen.
Especially it can't come to next year where we have to pull some stabilization again to that's I'm afraid for for the next for you know what I mean for the next year going forward we have to have that going into so there there's an issue there if
it's a three-year contract with Shaw for um for seeing if this will work um I I just have a lot of concerns around that that's all. I mean, if it if we're signing a three-year contract with
Shaw, how are we paying for it for all three years? Um, it it'll sell it to the people. Yeah. No, exactly. Exactly. So, where are we now? Are we paying charge?
Oh, yeah. it's in the budget through the end of June. The end of June. We're good. We're good. We got the extra 200k that we needed and put it in there and so it covered it. But um and but July hits and it's coming out
of that revolving fund or enterprise fund or whatever is you know able to be set up and I think working with Adam to figure out what that is if it's enterprise or revolving so that we have the right legal and you guys have access to that. And then ju and just just so everybody's
on the same page, the reason this came out last year and I was not on that board Nelson was town was none of the select we had to pay the school's assessment after the override failed last year and that select board decided
this was how they were going to fund that without getting rid of positions was to essentially put in purple because the other piece says that we don't have to sign the three-year contract and we can do it a yearly contract to be more reasonable than and if that's a
renegotiation because the contract that is in front of us is not a one-year contract but we can contract we can we can talk to Glenn and we can negotiate an a year contract and and to to alleviate the concern but I mean we
can certainly uh talk to Shaws And I think I don't think there would be any issue, but again, we we we we would and I we could instead of having a three-year like a yearly contract to see how how and and can that year start on
July 1st instead of why not? There's just not enough time, Veronica, to initiate the sticker program because this all has to go to town meeting if and correct me if I'm wrong, but this does have to go to town
meeting and you're giving the residents 10 days to sign up for the program. And I just did talk to Glenn and he agreed that he will work with us to your question that you needed
something from Shaw stating that their monthly bill won't exceed our available funds on hand and he agreed to that. You have that in writing? Not yet. I just I I'm trying um to um involve him
in this conversation as much as I can. He was not available to be on the meeting tonight, but he will be at our meeting on the 27th, our board of health regular scheduled meeting. And so I think there's a lot of things that if we can iron them out, hopefully we get the buy in. Excuse me. May I may
I have permission to leave? I have a 7 o'clock in the morning appointment. Thank you. Thank you, Mike. All right. Thank you very much. Any other questions from the public? Comments. So I know that I mean
um I've written part of of the feedback given by the select board here and and I mean I have to defer that that the people won't pay more than 125 per year if that is the case. That's
just I mean um and if FIMCOM is supporting using from stabilization that 160,000 how come is that now that the board the select board is saying no it's
not who what I I don't think we're saying yeah I don't think we're saying no it's not it's just that the people have to vote on that. I think that's my position on it personally is that that is money that everybody pays into and
if hundred residents all come and say I'm not participating in that they have a voice at that town meeting. That's my position. I need to hear their voice and yours and yours and mine and everybody's. That's why I'm saying that I completely support bring this to town meeting 100%. in in the even the format
exactly as you have it. We just need the people as you said to to to agree to it and their vote is required to use that funding. So, does that make sense? At least that's my perspective. My added perspective is and I need to
see numbers. Yeah. Well, and I think there's going to be people on the floor that it will be solvent and that if it's not solvent, it's not the town that's going to bail it out because the monies aren't there. At this point in time, if
we have to bail out trash, it's going to be salaries. we our expenses we've cut so much that that and I think the town's people just need to understand because our budget is so tight and I think next year it's not because last year we used
some money onetime funds so we're already behind this year so I think that's that's the and I just think that people need to understand that that's the situation and better communication full stop the last year was not the best of communication so if we can have this
say this is what the program because they start paying for it. This is this is the potential downfalls and even on my proposal the program we even on the second year we won't be depending on from from stabilization or anything like
that but I mean the people how do you know that well based what is your interest rate versus what you're paying out that's what I want to know um I I how do you
know that you won't be dependent on stabilization when that stabilization money gets spent in the first two months if we have an extended contract. Well, I can say that by that time the
people would would be part of the program and we will recapture. But again, um, in my proposal for the for fiscal year 2027, we we we would have enough people on the program with the use of
the purple bags that and and with the grants and and and what work we able to do to to be sufficient without depending from any tax levy. Got to convince enough people to get on it.
Yes. Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Yes. I just uh just to clarify, are you saying if in 27 the the 125 looking at the data isn't going to be sufficient to carry it through, you would consider raising the
fee to avoid taking from stabilization? Mo most likely. Yes. Okay. Thank you. We're bringing in around 50,000 a month back. No, no, it's not doing the total based on seven
months. What is it, Carla? Right now, what are we doing per month, Carla? It's close to we um last last month, April, was our worst month ever because it um the word got out that the trash contract might be
defunct and and there would be private hauling. So, we only brought in $19,000 in revenue. Um, we were typically had an average of 29 to $32,000 a
month, but it's decreased dramatically because people don't know what's happening. The estimate of 40,000 didn't work and that's what the used to say we needed. The board of health did not support that number. What's the
average 32,000 bags? Carla, do you know how they came up with that number originally? Excuse me. Do you know how they came up with that number originally? Because none of us were here. Um, I'm sorry, my dog is jumping on me. Could you repeat that question?
I said, "Do you know how they came up with the estimate initially?" Because we weren't or maybe Irene might know her hand. Yeah. Yeah. Speak to that. Right. In most communities, I I normally start off with a $2
um $ 250 per bag. But because of our short time frame, this was the shortest time to go pay as you throw um within a month from yes to being on the road. Um it was unbelievable to start on October 1st that we had to use our existing 350
overflow bags. There was no time to change any prices and so that's a very high price to start off with and of course the um we had more people going off than expected. So I think that's thing and then realizing that yes Shaw has this
good price of $50 $45 a month but note that um people in PEPL are paying close to 70 $80 you know they're paying a lot more and when we have no program here it will be even worse. So um I do expect
people will come back at $125 they'll come back to that. I mean, even if they um if you try to go to a drop off program, that's kind of what they're paying. And then plus the pay as you throw bags. So, we have curbside and can do that, then we'll have we'll keep
people. Um, I think if we're all on the same page here and we have the people that originally said no to the um, override and now they're in support of a town program, then um, we'll all be together
on the same page um, to support this program because everybody wants trash. And I have 17 out of pretty much there's only 34 communities out of 361 in Massachusetts that have no trash program. Everybody else has either a
curbside or a drop off. And those 17 that I have in Central Mass want a curbside program. I have four of them actually going out to bid to get the contract that we have with Shaw. They can't even get close to that rate that we have. So, we have the best rate in
the state I feel with Shaw. And we got to sign this as soon as possible. And I know you guys are thinking you want a one-year, but still go with a three because he's giving you the best rate he can. And um if he goes with a one, he has to up it a little bit, you know, because that's just his business. If he
knows it's uh long-term, he'll give you a better rate. And we got a really good rate. So, let's get this passed and get this signed. I I will help the town as the D recycling coordinator um to help with
the towns with the um projections of downgrading of how many people are using it. But we have to be supportive and if it keeps on saying this is not working then it gets on social media that hey go with the dumpster go with the dumpster then people are not using the program we
want people to use this program it is the best efficient program and I want you to know people like who do I have that's is Lancaster you know they don't have any program their residents are paying $700 a year for trash service and
the town still gets questions they still have issues they still get everybody is still talking about what do I do with this what do I do with that we have the best program for the best price and if we have to have this flat fee plus bags that's what all drop offs
do that's so it's not something new it's not something hard we'll just do it and we can have all the things down all the websites and all the other communities have it all on our website and I'm here to help
I think that's Yeah, we have to bring it to town meeting. Yeah, that's that's I think and with the with the cons with with the honest concerns also being but if the data is all there the concerns can get
out weighed because I agree we I mean we all agree this is a great program we just got to pay for next year the schools are going to come in with a million more need and where does that come 2.5 you got to remind them um It doesn't matter. Is
there anything else? So, I think we as a board I'll take all the feedback that we received from from the select board and from the community and we will talk it over in our next board health meeting and I will try to see if we can come up
with a more with um with some of the respon some of the responses that I can have for tonight's meeting. Um and um I think that um yes, the people have to decide what
they want to do and I I think that that yes, the people has the power to do that. But right now, the board of health is coming with a proposal and a solution based on what was prop was voted on the
select board before the town hall meeting of eliminating trash and having this document that I presented to you was that was it it's it is a
solution for that deficit of of not having uh a trash program. Um can I get a motion to adjour the border house meeting tonight? You get a second.
Uh nothing else to say. All in favor say I. I adjourn it at 9 p.m. during the joint meeting and then we just have one thing. Yeah. I' I'd like to uh journ the joint meeting of the board of selectmen
at 9:08 p.m. Is there a motion? Seconded. All those in favor? I thank everybody. Both meetings are adjourned.
No, the joint the board of selectment meeting is not yet adjourned. The joint meeting is Thank you. Thanks you guys. Have a good night. Good night. Okay, so is Nelson still on? Nelson
still there? Yeah. Um Nelson, town administrator updates and reports. Do you have anything? Um I do not. Uh reports from board liaison. Um, so I just have a quick question that came in
from conservation today that I just wanted to bring up because they were looking from Kobe. Um, so there is a piece of property on Dudley Road. It's town property and um, it's kind of known as Dudley
Meadows. Is that the is that the open space for an open space development? Um, it's I'm not sure. I forget. Peter J. drive it off. No, it's it's on Dudley Road known as Dudley Meadows. I can get clarification fully, but so um it's for
a long time the conservation it was the town kind of conservation commission was in charge of taking care of it. But the the it looks like the deed says it's just the towns and that that necessary little categorization. So it's under the
conservation commission isn't there. And so the conservation commission would like to go forward because there's a lot of encroachment on that piece of property right now from abotterers, fences, trash, and they would like to know if they can work on
behalf of the town to remedy that while we're figuring out if they're actually in charge of that piece of property. That's I want to know what piece of property it is. It's Dudley Meadows on Dudley Road property.
Um I am aware that it's kind of what's going on there at least on a you know high level. I did um suggest to Colby that he talk to Adam next Tuesday during office hours. I think Colby has
mentioned it to Adam. Adam did request additional information so that Adam could I guess present a a clearer, you know, determination for Colby because without certain pieces of information, I
think um Adam doesn't have enough information, you know, to to make a a sound opinion on it. Nelson, do you know the map block lot? I do not.
Veronica, there's a trail that if you're coming from the center going down Dudley on the left hand side, you've got Peter J. Drive. Right before that, there's a trail. There's a little divot where you can pull over and there's a a sign there. I think it says it must say
Dudley Meadows with I think it might say conservation area, but but there is a trail that goes back there. And in the conservation meeting, they had they show quite a bit of encroachment with a fencing especially that's gone right into that trail area. And it's I think
they're just looking to so the while the deed's being ironed out. Conservation would just like to know if there's guidance that they can go in and work on that encroachment because it is town property that is being encroached on. Okay. Maybe we should put this on our
next meeting. Okay. um only because I want to take a little bit of time to look at this. Okay. They weren't they weren't um asking for anything different to be done. They just wanted to know if they could work
to get the fences and trash off the public land while it need questions. it is town property and so right now nobody is you know doing any of that work on the encroachment and they would like to be able to do that. That is the could they
act to um on that situation while I'm not ready to vote on without seeing exactly where it is. Okay. Is is that you looking for a vote for I mean, I didn't know if they were just they wanted to be able to help to remedy
the situation and were willing to do it prior to the exact details of if they were in charge of the land or not was ironed out, right? Because it is property either way. It's just is it under their jurisdiction or
do we do we are we going to allow them to act as if it is well it's being it's been treated like that but apparently there's wasn't treated properly but we can we can do yeah I'm not this this is going
maps not found that's yeah I I think you you guys should uh we should do a little bit more research and maybe get some clarification from Adam uh during office hours and we can put it on the next select board um agenda. Okay. Yeah, I I
agree with that. Sounds good. Right. Anything else? You like the board's public safety? I have nothing. No. Next meeting. Next meeting is um Don't we have an executive session tomorrow night? So, the next meeting is
tomorrow night at 5:00 pm. Correct. Yep. And there's a open session portion to that as well. Okay. Um, so is that posted? It has been. Yes.
All right. This is a virtual only meeting at 5:00 pm tomorrow. Um, do we have any payrolls or warrants? Do we need to vote to sign out of session for next week? No, we did that on Tuesday. We did that on Tuesday.
Okay. Then is there a motion to adjurnn? Make a motion to adjourn at 9:15. 9:15. All right. Thank you every uh second. All those in favor? I. All right.