Rob Usulo. I make a motion that uh we open the meeting on uh November December 3rd, 2025. Okay. >> 6:30. >> And there a second. >> Darlene, sit down on seconds. >> Thank you. Roll call. Darlene.
>> Yes. >> You have to say Darene. >> Oh, you called my name. So, yes. Darlene, yes. >> Strener, yes. Rob, yes. >> And Vicki Jiki, yes. All right. So we are open our um hearing starts at 6:35
so that we look at our meeting minutes. Let's see 19 October 1st which um does anybody need a copy of it? Anybody take a look >> the minutes? Yeah,
>> I look to them. Do we have a motion to accept the do we have any amendments to the October 1st document uh minutes limits? >> October thought it was there's three of them. October
last >> So October 1st was um we are still looking at the Parkline Street. Yeah. >> Yeah. And this is the one
big one of it. Thank you. That's just a continuation. Yeah, that's where we went from an amended special permit to it was withdrawn. >> Yeah. >> To with the recommendation to submit a
new one. >> Okay. >> Need that back? >> No. You have any amendments for October 1st? >> I do not. >> We have a motion to accept the minutes. >> Second. >> Oh.
>> Oh, >> I thought you made the motion. Darlene Sano um moves to approve the October 1st. Second. First. >> October 1st. >> October 1st meeting minutes. >> Second. >> And who is seconding? >> I was Robuls.
We'll start with Darene. >> Darlene. Yes. Coy, yes. Robel, yes. >> Vicky Jiki, yes. All right, that takes care of October 1st, October 29th. This is the meeting where we uh discuss
Dave Chanel as a new member. Darlene Sedana moves to approve the October 29th meeting minutes. >> We'll be sure to second call. Start with Darling, please. >> Darling, yes. >> Colby, yes.
>> Come on. Robert. Yes. >> I wasn't think that's something. >> Oh. Oh, okay. But we don't we only need three. So, >> hey. >> Hi. >> I'm David. Hey coach, >> we started the actual meeting so we're
just approving the minutes. >> So move >> um so we need your vote. Um the third accept comfortable >> you could share. >> This is fine. It's fine. No, it's fine.
That's fine. Don't worry about culture. >> Yeah. This way I can avoid ignore everything if you guys say that. >> I'm leaving. My bum hurts. >> TMI. You go bye.
>> All right. >> All right. Let's Let's roll out on >> 19th meeting minutes. Um, >> do you want do you want to announce that he's joining or do you need to do that? >> Hi Dave. Hi Dave. Thanks for joining. Uh
we don't need to elevate because we have four full right now. >> Yeah. >> Five is the full board. If you have just four, then it's going to be unanimous. Five couldn't be majority. >> Great. So, >> uh I'm elevating Dave Chanel to full member for the purposes of this meeting.
>> Thank you. >> Okay, moving on. Uh, November 19th, that was the last meeting we had um where we opened but we did not have sufficient pass. What was the date? November
>> 29th. I'm sorry, 19th. >> Darlene moves to approve the November Say it again. What? 19th. >> November 19th meeting minutes. >> Second. And you have to say your name. >> Only if you're appearing electronically.
I mean >> I think if all five all members of here supposedly you don't have to but they were trying to get in habit I guess. >> Yeah. Um >> bill. >> Okay. >> Say Dave second.
>> So it's do roll call. We'll start with my right Dave to approve the minute. >> And what's the correct protocol? They should know. Yes. >> Okay. They should know. Yes. >> Dialene. Yes. >> Culture abstain. Robin
is Nikki. Yes. So we'll approve them. >> Robertain. >> You obtain or no? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> All right. So we are officially at uh
meet uh uh time for the hearing a little bit over. So welcome. Uh, looks like we have Addison. And who else do we have here for the hearing? Just let us know. >> Business partners with us and
>> Okay. Thank you. All right. Do we have a motion to open the Oh, we open the hearing for 159 Brookline Street. So move. Second. >> Oh.
The move David seconds. >> All right. Roll call. Start. Right. >> David. Yes. >> Darling. Yes. >> Yes. Rob. Yes. >> Make a Yes. All right. Uh, does anybody want to have the pleasure of reading the legal notice? >> Did that last time.
>> Did we do it last time? Okay. All right. So, we're all set. >> All right. That's fine. >> All right. >> Just comfy. >> All right. Um, Addison, uh, you get to go first. >> Sure.
>> Give us a little plead your case. >> Sure. Okay. Okay. So, to refresh everyone's memory, um I'm Brendan and I are requesting a special permit for our property at uh 159 uh Brookline Road to
make uh long-term residential uh leasing of our cottage units permitted. And my application basically goes like this. the our property is zoned as outlying a
commercial district and the single family dwellings on the that property uh fit the definition of a uh cottage as uh in the in the zoning laws and cottages
are permitted by right in outline commercial districts. Um, and so if you guys recognize these dwellings as as cottages, then it follows that um,
the law allows us to get a permitted long-term uh, leasing of these as long as you deem it to be not more detrimental than its current uh, than otherwise. basically and in my
application I've gone through each of the items from A to G uh from you know sewage disposal to water quality and all this stuff um addressing each point as to why it's not more detrimental. I don't know if you guys have the
application summary in front of you >> and did you read the on town council. >> I did not see that. >> Can I ask for clarification on something the applicant just said? >> Sure. >> What did you what did you mean? You said something about cottages
being um I think you use a definition of cottage. You said something about >> well the um the law says that that within you know certain things are allowed by right in outline commercial districts. Right. One of the things that
is allowed are cottage dwellings. And the definition of a cottage dwelling is like a single family unit that is under 1,800 square feet. And so I'm just saying that if you grant that these dwellings are cottages by that
definition, then they're allowed by right within outline commercial district. >> Okay. I just wanted clarification of what you meant. I don't agree with that statement, but I wanted to understand that. Yeah, I would just throw that I I think
you guys had um the legal opinion uh letter uh drafted where I think they said uh something to that effect where uh the inspector thinks that they should be uh
deemed as cottages and and as long as uh it's not more detrimental uh than its current uh uh zone. phoning, which is motel, hotel use. Um, and they're they
see no issue with it. >> Do you have anything else to present at this time? >> Um, I don't have anything more. I think I I did provide a PowerPoint at some a point of visuals of these places. if you're interested. I think everyone
maybe has already seen that because it's been a while since uh I submitted that. >> My my issue and that's and it's going to be a hard hard um mountain to climb is is how do you get past transient in the bylaws versus long-term rentals
>> change in use that's not allowed by by statute and by state statute is state law as well. How do you get past that >> existing use for probably over a decade before we even owned it? Uh >> not my question.
>> All the permitting all the permit that was that was issued was based on transient use and they they were bold and highlighted with on each each of the PL sub the special permit decisions. How do you get past you you'll I agree with you. Your your grandfather to to do what you're doing now is provided that it's
transient. You're asking for us to say now you can use long term. >> So So right, we're asking for a special permit to to make that >> that's not allowed. You can't you can't change a use by special permit. >> But he's also saying
out. >> So let me just This is the monkey wrench for me. Okay. You've got >> hotel. They were granted a special permit for transient use >> brand hotel >> because did not exist in towns in 2009. >> Okay. Well, let me finish my thought
first. >> That's not true. >> So then I just lost my thought. >> Sorry. >> So um he's saying cottages by definition are allowed in the bylaw. I think what
what I what I read in your talk. So you're trying to say single family dwellings are allowed on an OCD, but only one single family dwelling is allowed, not multiple dwellings. And that's what you have. You have nine nine
cottage dwellings, if you will. And only one is allowed as a matter of right in every single district. >> So okay. So, that's the part that I I'm not sure of, >> but but you are following what I'm what I'm getting at, which is that my my
argument is that long-term leasing is allowed in outline commercial district as long as the as long as they're cottage dwellings. So, that's my answer to the first person asking, >> where are you getting that from? I don't I don't read that anywhere on the bylaw.
And if that were true, you wouldn't be here. If it's allowed by right, you wouldn't be asking for a special permit. So >> we um well let's let's not get into a discussion fight yet. Let's see if there Yeah, we have to >> but well I want clarification because he's presenting something as like a he
thinks is a fact and I want to know where he's where his from. >> That's yeah >> if he had an attorney he would do the same thing. She would make makes a fact sometimes on a house of job to knock them down or accept them. That's that's how we do it.
there a definition of transient somewhere >> that's in the hotel motel definition. >> Yeah, in the in the bylaw. >> So there's been there's been a lot of f Oh, you want to go in a different direction first? >> So I just want to see Yeah. Do we have specific questions? Yeah. Make sure they
finish their point finish if there's any more. >> Um what I want to say? Yeah. Is there anything else they wanted to say? Um, and at that point probably should just get like some of the let's see then we can go into questions.
I just want to make sure that I can I ask do you have a complete copy of the package you sent us like a hard copy >> yeah not the application but for these all the things you all the supporting docs you had. I read through them. I I'm
not I'm not going to use my own printer to print that stuff out. Yeah. >> Do you happen to have the the town's uh legal uh opinion letter in front of you? >> Yeah, >> I have read that.
>> Yeah. Which, you know, I I actually disagree with a lot of things this this young associate is saying, but that's another story. >> Yeah. I think he misinterpreted the way he formed it. Actually, he was correct. But and when
he says that the board can can grant a special permit if you find blah blah blah blah blah, well that's procedural. It doesn't mean we should or bound it. It's like that's the procedure. >> Yeah. Special permits. It's not by
writing, but you make the decision. It's not detrimental. That's that's that's that's what we've been doing for me 30 years and you for 30 40 years, whatever the hell it is. But it's the question is I mean I agree that you guys are grandfathered for what you're doing with transient use with the cabins, the
carges, whatever you want to call it with the kitchens. That's what we did in 09010. It's the transient versus long-term that I can't get past. I'm just telling you that straight up front. So I was hoping you could hear your your discussion towards that and try to convince me otherwise.
I I guess I mean obviously I'm not a legal expert. So I guess our case was is more we believe it's just more beneficial to have these as as long-term rentals than than transient uh motel use. I think that would just be
better for the the town. So that's why we're we're we're just applying for the special permit for that reason. Um, >> I disagree with you, but but just because of it's something that's good doesn't mean we can go we can ignore the bylaws and the state statutes and say
otherwise. We have to, you know, we've had it many times where people have come for applications to us and we all as a board say it's a good idea, but we're not we don't have the jurisdiction of authorization to do it and people have gone to town meeting and and drafted and had new bylaws drafted and accepted that
way. Well, we don't just because we want to do something, we have to justify it based on the jurisdiction that we have in the bylaws. >> Well, I Yeah, I hear you. I I if I look at the the legal opinion here, it seems to me their conclusion was as long as
you determined it was not more detrimental than the existing non-conforming use to the neighborhood, uh, then it's it there was there's no issue with with the change. Um, That's just from the legal letter. I I not an expert.
>> So this So I'll give you the sections that that that run contrary to what the what the attorney is saying. So um 145-4 it's called prohibited uses. Does any use that's not specifically or generically listed here in or otherwise
here being the bylaws or otherwise permitted in a district shall be deemed prohibited. So because of the OCD allows for cottage types that are transient, it does not specifically mention long-term, which means it's prohibited. Then it says then
then we don't have the ability to change that with a special permit. That's the problem that I see. I mean, I'm dissecting the bylaws, which is what you get for doing it for so many years, but that's that's the problem that I have.
They're reading into Garid's definition. He when he wrote the letter, he got into definitions in the Bible. And the definition, >> these definitions really don't pertain as far as I'm concerned because
what's there structurally was there before, >> right? >> So that's why I can. So when when those special permits were issued, it's because there was a motel already there. So it was Harrison's Motorc Court was
the name of that place for over 35 years. Now it's on the record. Yeah. Been deal. >> So Harrison's Motor Court is what was purchased. When the zoning board, they allowed them to redo structures that were already there which had kitchens.
The motel definition doesn't include kitchens and that's where people are getting hung up. Motel are in the bylaw for OCD as a matter of right and as special permit the kitchens >> and they wanted to rebuild them with
kitchens. We allowed them to do that and that's what was nonconforming was the kitchens the use >> but they had it in the existing in the Harrison Hotel. They had kitchens in there, right? So they wanted to build new structures with the kitchens and his grandfather. >> That was what the pre-existing
non-conforming was cuz it didn't it was already there. It didn't conform with the definition of motel. >> Okay. >> And we allowed them >> the motel. It wasn't Harrison Court motel as transient that was pre-existing non-conforming. It was the kitchen
>> kitchens in it, >> right? Structures pretty much >> which so it's the use of the kitchens all together. That's what was nonconforming. >> Okay. >> So, that's why we made a big deal
out of the transient because we knew with the kitchen someone would try to do long-term rentals. And guess what? They did. So that's but so that's what get me to
and like okay we need they're they're going into what we need in town and all that but that's that's not our view >> of what we need in town. We have to go by what's allowed >> by by um right what's allowed by special
permit >> and then how you get to the changing and nonconforming use that's prohibited. So the the re the thing the application they made was under 145-18 which is extensions and alterations. It
starts off pre-existing non-conforming structures or looses may be extended, altered, changed or rebuilt only by a special permit. >> Um so why doesn't that apply? Why is I think that's what the law >> Yeah, that's what they're coming in under.
>> But then it gets it gets >> typically states but prohibited us. It's not it's not mentioned like a lot of the bylaws we have that we deal with. Um there's there's activities by right. You don't it says you can do this that then it says well but you if you want to do
something else these examples then that's a special perm requirement. If it's not if there's nothing mentioned within that bylaw section at all by by this paragraph it's being prohibited. >> Okay. So even if I have a pre-existing >> pre-existing is different.
>> Okay. because pre-existing. There's a there's a a six year and a 10ear um statute of limitations by state statute that allows allows for um we've done it a couple times, but it allows for I don't say waiver of the bylaws, but
allows for overriding the bylaws. If you can if you can demonstrate that you've had um long-term in this case a long-term rentals for for at least 10 year period, you can do that. Um, and then that that would be a grandfather use as well. Um, that said it's a
there's a seven-year stat for structures and tenure for use. Um, but we're not here for that. You know, we're not here for that. The one thing that the the section that the attorney missed that I and I was I'm disappointed Adam didn't do this himself, but um it's 145-4, the
prohibit uses. It's spec and that's that's the catchall for everything. If it's specifically not a permitted structure activity, use whatever in a section, it's deemed prohibited. >> Period. That's it's a it's one of the shortest bylaw sections we have in our
town bylaws. >> You guys want to read this on it? It's 145 for >> so >> and I would agree the OCD does have hotel motel as a matter of right which
>> special apartment you don't yeah I don't understand why >> but >> it's the kitchen portion that was added back in the day >> okay but I think that's why we had do nonconforming said the definition was
>> all right. >> Yeah. >> And that could have been a stretch, you know, >> those those were done in those are the two years that I was off the board when I was a select. But I you guys did a good job at outlining the the decision. It was point on. Um, but even if I was
to go through all this criteria, I and I I read all this, you're not getting me as to less det as to not more detrimental. >> Oh, so >> how is it not detrimental? >> Well, the OCD is allows for it's a commercial
district. Now granted there are res there's obviously homes in the area but that particular site you've got a single family home you got nine motor courts or cottage dwellings whatever you want to call them and then you have a storage
unit right next door and um what's the difference between longterm and transient? Well, in Townsen, if that was transient, you're not going to have nine buildings with vehicles pulling in
and out of there twice a day, checking in and checking out. >> There's also tax burden on tax basis for the children in school, too. >> Well, that's a if if you when people travel, there's they usually travel together in one car. If people live in a
two people live in a dwelling, most people have their own car. So this I would say you might have two cars versus one car, right? >> Okay. >> But most people share a car. Most people have their own car. So you have two cars
coming and going every day. Um you have a school bus potentially stopping there. You have, you know, when people are transient, they show up at a motel, they probably check in, go to sleep, wake up, vote, and they're gone. Um are they hanging out in the yard? Are they
>> there? There's so much more activity I see with longterm completely different than transient in my opinion. >> This is just a regurgitation of discussion we've had for 30 years that I've been involved. So on 14565 which is part of the bylaw that you referenced
for your application. Section F it says in addition to any this is a qualifier. This is the lead this is the lead into the seven points that we have to comply with. It says, "In addition to any specific requirements elsewhere in this bylaw, in addition to any specific requirements elsewhere in this bylaw,
bylaw being the entire thing, this is incorporated by reference and that's the prohibited use." >> Well, that's >> so even then it says you could do this, but it can't you still can't get past that. >> Well, that's where suitability of the site probably comes in to me is okay.
It's a prohibited use. It's not suitable. >> It's more legal a It's not even a physical acronym. It's just the start. How do you get I don't know how you get, you know, I I'm a purist. I mean, I can't, you know, when I first got on this thing, I I I can't look the other way. If the BA doesn't allow for it,
then I don't do it. I mean, I'm but I'm just one one person. But >> Rob, you have questions or or >> right now, what is the right now? It's long-term
rental occupancy. Is that right? Yes, that's correct. >> All right. >> Contrary to the what was allowed in the special. >> So, >> and then the building inspect the geese. >> They're Yeah, they're in violation. >> So, so we're just going to shut them
down. >> Well, >> well, let's we don't that's not we have to speak. >> Well, it sounds like what we're saying, >> right? But that's not >> I mean, by the way, with your arms cross says you're angry. The one thing about being on the zoning on the zoning board, you sometimes you
have hard decisions. >> I mean, we had people move we've had people move the structures before when they were over the limit. >> It's just I'm just trying to see where we're going here. It sounds like we're saying we're going to deny this application and tell them they got to come back and
do something else. Well, they exist as a >> in violation. >> How is that? I'm willing to listen to anybody that can make an argument that for the transit versus, you know, that the the long-term is not is a prohibited use in that OCD. It's it's reading the
statute of bylaws. It's clear. I can't get past that. If somebody can make an argument, I was hoping you were going to bring an attorney in here to that could maybe cloud the issue a little bit, maybe confuse me and and make me agree. >> I was trying to get you to get some Sony help when we spoke about this.
>> Yeah, truly. I I mean, I mean, I didn't do land use when I was when I practiced. I I had a lot of friends that did it and I would refer people to to different various people, but I know enough about it to be dangerous and I just can't see how the I would would come past get it past me. I I
>> do other towns have this prohibited um section or is it sort of you because >> so 180 185 I think is the state statute for the zoning stuff. You know, I and a lot of that stuff's been codified in
various city or town violence. I don't know if they have to take those section. I I would >> I don't know. >> I was just wondering because I I'm kind of surprised the our legal advice that I'm so sure. >> Yeah. Um >> would I be able to ask a question? >> Yes.
Um, so if I am understanding correctly, um, it sounds like I'm sorry I'm not familiar with all your names, but, uh, there is a potential issue where you just can't get past the fact that the bylaws might not allow it just in
writing. And then someone believes that the a a long-term rental is is more detrimental than transient. Am I understanding those are the two main arguments against it right now?
>> If I if I may, I think the um the initial question is to get past the transit versus long-term. If you get past that legal hurdle, then the question becomes whether it's more or less detrimental. So that's that would be the order of of of the um the issue
you have to hey you have to first find out if it's an acceptable use allowed use and then you're going to then you go into 145 section 1 through7 those findings of fact you know detrimental and all that all the things
we talked about >> we did not go >> I'm sorry >> yeah we we did not specifically go into finding the definition of of transient versus long-term. I I think
because we were operating under maybe an assumption that that this seems like a better option for the town than than transient. I mean, people coming and going and no idea who they are or
I just I I we we figured long-term housing was was better for towns and then a hotel motel use. Um, just on its face. I guess that's what we were thinking.
>> I can't even find an OCD where multifamily is allowed. It isn't right. Yeah. >> So stay away from the definition. Let's go with you. What is it? >> So that's why I was taking the angle of cottage dwellings, right? I'm not I'm not saying I understand that there's
quibbling about the definitions, but I was I I don't describe it as a multif family because I think of a multif family is multiple units under one roof versus cottage dwellings or standalone cabins under 1,800 square feet according to the definition. >> I'm just going to interject before you continue. So on the definitions in the
bylaw it says hotel/mult a building or portion thereof or a group of buildings on a single lot intended to be used for temporary lodging of persons. So you do qualify you you do match that meet that that that uh definition multi you know says or or buildings or a group of
buildings nine is a group so you do you do qualify for that >> that's what a motorord is >> right right I mean I don't have a problem with the number of buildings on the on the lot because that's allowed I read I I was reading this last night >> um you know then then that definition
says you can't cook but we back 14 years ago you guys trump It's just a transient. Does it talk about transient versus Can you speak to that more >> through what? >> Yeah. >> Where's the limit between transient and long-term rent? Is it >> 14 days?
>> Oh, yeah. >> Transient's typically 14 days. >> Are you getting that as a as a broker or is there is there >> Yeah, it's in real estate. >> Yeah. I lease and controls you. >> Yeah, you want to rent to someone every
14 days, but then you got are they going to have a mailbox? And you know, that's a whole different thing. You know, long-term rentals. But, you know, talking to your prohibited if if there was even multifamily buildings allowed in here, you could probably you could change your
definition, right? If you if multif family was allowed in here, you know, no matter which way you slice it, you've got multiple families living on one lot >> long term versus a hotel which is
transient. >> But change the facts. If you had multiple families living in this lot and they were transient, no follow, >> right? >> Because transient isn't the same as long. But I'm saying but it's being if you if it's a transient use then then
they comply with the definitions of the hotel motel and the bylaws. It's just that it's just >> Yeah, you're right about the status too. >> Yeah, why not? For sure. Um is I can't find a definition of what transient is. I don't I mean it makes sense. Do you
know Beth >> is it is there anything in the bylaws about transient? >> Uh I don't know. I just wanted to remind you as part of the public hearing um those mandatory referrals there weren't a lot but >> I wanted to get to the public on here
any others or others on the call who have comments. Oh, we never received written comments. Um, sure. >> But I I had a different take away from the CD parl. I think it I think it was a
little bit ambiguous, but it seems like it's supposed to be a little bit ambiguous since I'm sorry. The is it specifically says the purpose it's to is the OCD is designed to accommodate the widest range of permitted commercial
activities. This is commercial activity and uh that detach single one family dwellings I don't think it's written well but I don't think one in there means the number one it's defining single or
>> right >> in addition to one family >> dwelling number one that's not a commercial activity >> that's >> and number two somewhere else in the by it says there shall be not more than one single family dwelling on a What? Until the ACU thing came along, ADU thing.
When the ADU thing came along, I think some only one of those. So, >> so this it says this on every single um >> statement you just read. There is >> Oh, it's 145.
>> Thank you. >> Single detach single one family dwellings. Just because there's an S on dwellings doesn't mean you can put multiple. That's not what it means. Um, you know, restaurants are would you put more than one restaurant? Would you have more than one educational religious use on a lot probably?
>> Okay. But going going what's the name? >> I'm sorry. So going going on your line purpose. Okay. And then on that B of that section hotel mult we've already said by definition you can have multiple buildings on that. So it does comply with that. Right. And and it says the
purpose is designed to accommodate the widest range of permitted commercial activities. That's the That's That's my That's the crux I have. >> It's specifically not permitted or allowed. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It would be easier. I would absolutely agree with you guys. If if it said the following shall not be permitted and they listed, they make a list. Yeah. >> And the following you do that there's always an exception list. >> They went the other way. >> Yeah. The other way. Yeah. Yeah,
>> I know. That's >> all right. Let me um read in >> OCD bylaw. Does it talk about transients? >> I don't see it. I just >> It's the hotel motel definition under definitions. There's a whole separate section of the bylaw
>> that um now you can find that online if you want. >> They're also rental. So, they are a commercial activity. So can they fit under it? >> So the definition of a hotel of a building a portion of or a group of buildings of a single lot intended to be
used for the temporary lodging of persons says who are lodged with or without meals and in which major provisions for cooking may be made in a central kitchen but may not be in the individual rooms or services. So it's temporary lodging is is the is the trans units
>> and even if you be multif family you can't get a multif family building on a lot less than 8 acres. So every which way you slice it that >> it just it just doesn't go it's not
suitable for that zoning that lot or anything like that. Then how is it the board of health said that they can't they just don't buy >> by the septic system it was designed to trans you live there all the time it's
the same size substance system I mean >> unfortunately that's that's that's not their jurisdictions >> so they're just looking at at capacity that's it >> right >> right so apartments multif family
building. A building designed, you know, it's building sounds singular. Designed and constructed so as to contain three or more suites of one or more rooms. Each suite provided with individual cooking and other facilities for independent housekeeping used or
intended to be used for the nontransient housing of three or more families. >> That's the apartment definition. >> Yes. So there's the but again I there doesn't in our bylaws there doesn't seem to be a definition of what transient means.
There may be something in state like at a state level. >> Yeah. When when you don't have you don't have a definition that's by statute of law when you looked at less. >> Okay. Yeah. having a definition. Where did that >> just back knowledge
>> just your real >> just my Yeah, it's my uh >> they could have changed it. I mean, >> I don't see a definition such as this final. It's just so >> I don't think I've ever seen one, but Tanzian is just a general term that's
accepted as someone who doesn't live there all the time. It's not their permanent residence. and you're traveling with the only definition that you do have >> is the is within the hotel motel and that's temporary lodging. I mean, I
guess everybody has their own definition of what temporary. Some people say it's short time two, three days, whatever. But it's certainly not indeed. >> How in your mind does it get you does it get you there? >> I'm okay with it under OCD.
I think it fits under death detach. Oh, my family dwellings like like just as simply as it reads. But how do you get past the the promoted use? It's a permitted use. It's it's not not London permitted use. >> Hotel Motel, which is temporary temporary London. No, but you're you're
you're arguing that >> it fits it fits better under the bylaw OCD bylaw by saying that they're cottage dwellings with >> talking about section B8 hotel motel operation >> uh 14529
B6 of detached. I don't know why they would put single family dwellings under the OCB bylaw, but there was a reason I can't that's not that doesn't work for me. I I would agree with section 8 which
hotel motel but then you go to the definition of hotel motel and it has temporary temporary watching. >> I I'll pepper that with saying that as long as there aren't any major detrimental consequences of of having nine cottages on them. Is
it one? Well, it's like it's like three 2.3 acres or something like that. Three acres. It's like three acres, >> which I I you know, go going back to if we if we would get past the hurdle of the prohibited use thing, then we would go down the, you know, the findings of
fact for special permit, you know, that more detrimental traffic flow views and vistas and all that stuff. I probably would find no problem with it. I really wouldn't. I mean, aside from the traffic aspect and the and the burden on the taxes for potential um school age children moving in there, but I can't
get I can't even get to that point. My me personally, and that's just me, you know, I've been a lot of times I've been >> been negative the last person voting on something where I was over overruled.
>> Would I be able to jump in for a second? >> Yes. Go ahead. Um so in the in the legal opinion it said notably the subject property is located in the OCD where a single family dwellings are allowed by
right b two family dwellings apartments/ multif family structures multif family development lodging or boarding houses and mixes mixed uses are prohibited and c hotels ins or motel are allowed by
special permit Um, and I mean it goes on to to basically say that if by by reapplying for a new special permit,
I I got the it was my understanding that the the new special permit is to allow a a non-conforming use essentially, which is perhaps the transient versus long-term rental. I thought that that is
the special permit and that is the non-conforming use. >> Well, you can apply for anything you want. Doesn't mean that it's allowed or we're going to find the criteria to allow you to do it.
Um, so that procedurally you're correct, but you're asking to do something that's not allowed there. Well, >> the table of principal use regulations defines
uh says dwelling single family. I know it doesn't say the word cottage, but the word cottage was not even in the zoning requirements until town meeting in 2021, which says like we just said in OCB it's allowed
just by regulation. So, >> well, there is a main house there that's a single family dwelling and the rest of them are the are the Nordic courts which were >> you're saying they're not cottages under under town meeting amendment in 2021. >> I don't see them as single family
dwellings because they're not allowed. You're only allowed one single family dwelling per lot. >> Period. End of story. >> That would be true. >> You're reading >> that would be true. >> You're reading an S here and wanting it to be that and that's not what it is. And it says it under every single one.
And if you could have multiple single family dwellings on one lot, then why do we have another part of the bylaw that says you can't have multif family on anything less than 8 acres? It doesn't even make sense. >> It's it's the grandfather nature of of
the property really. >> Well, it's a their grandfather. That's probably the reason why hotels and motel is even allowed or they made that OCD is because they were there for a really long time and they wanted the bylaws to fit what was there. That happens
>> cuz they existed before the bylaws, right? So he's like, "Oh, there's a motor court here. We shouldn't put that in OCD as part of so commercial use >> um what they do." There was some vote
about cottages, cottage dwellings at the last special town meeting. I mean, it was a spring or >> but they haven't been created for the age restricted bylaw. >> That's right. >> Okay. That's what those were created for
and they're actually part of that bylaw. >> Are they specific? Is that definition specific to that bylaw section or was a g it's a a general definition for all of bylaw since >> well it was I I I don't know the answer to that but I do know it was added under
definitions when the age restricted bylaw was adopted that's all I know okay that's what it >> would I be able to ask um it sounds like some of you have been on the board for a long time when that when that cottage
dwelling definition was added. Uh what was the property or what was the scenario where it had to be added? >> Age restricted bylaw development. >> She's talking about in 2022, right? It's
not going back when the Harrises Harris courts were created. This is something specific >> and that would have been something done at town meeting. We don't all we do is in is >> enforce the current bylaw. We don't make changes. We don't we stay away from
everything like that because this is our job is to read these words, interpret them, and see if we can help you do what you want to do. >> Yeah. I was just I was just hoping to maybe get an idea of it if if there's another property in towns and that that
is using this cottage dwelling definition um for comparison. >> But the only one would be the age would be condon. Yeah, >> they couldn't get they couldn't get multif family on >> there was a there was a a structure was
called Benjamin Motel >> back in the day. Um they have since gone condo. they condolize their their entire structure. But that was the the two reoccurring I don't say problems, issues that we had over the years in that area
with was the Harris Motel that you have now and the Benjamin motel which is no longer on the boards because they they they created put put them all into condominiums. Um, yeah. I mean, I think those between one of those is is what the reason for the
creation of the hotel motel section of the OCD was created for, but I don't I don't have a recollection of I mean, by they first came out like 67 and there's probably four or five iterations of it and each one went from the first was like five or six pages. I went I used to
before I left I had every I had complete copies of every sec before back in the day. All right. So, just for to be complete, I'll read in the referral notices just so we
have it in the record. So, the first is from the highway department. There was no comment. Next, we have the planning board. Um, sounds like change of use comply with current town bylaws.
>> Who's that? That's >> what the um >> sign the select said that too >> wherein said we trust zoning will make
correct decision >> and I don't even know why the select are asked to comment they really shouldn't anyways board of health uh the septic system and well on the property are adequate for proposed use regardless of whether the occupants are long-term
tenants or transient in nature. >> That's >> that's what we have for the referrals. >> So, they've been right in. We're formerly >> Is there a letter that the that the um building inspector is only postal officer that he wrote? >> Yes. >> I haven't seen
>> I haven't seen that though. >> Go into the terminology definitions. >> Yeah. That wasn't >> and it said regardless you're violating claim. >> Um that what's the history? How did we get here? Did you guys apply to en to to uh
enhance a special permit or did the zoning enforcement guy saw what you were doing and he sent you a cease and desist letter? How what's the horse on the cus one? How did you guys get here? >> Allison went through but we initiated it. Um, if you want to go into it.
>> So, you spoke to the >> Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. >> No, I said you spoke to the building inspector which triggered his letter or he I was wondering if he initiated himself. >> No, no, we we asked him his opinion and he and and he wrote a letter that we
have. I I'd have to find it, but um no, there there nobody came to us. Uh we initiated it um because of the uh health uh department
uh wanting us to renew um I I can't quite remember various uh certificates and um we talked to them and they said you might want to think about reszoning it as as long-term rentals. Addison, you might remember
better than I do. This has gone on now for probably six or seven months, I think. >> Yeah, that's correct. That's Yeah, we reached out to Robert Garside uh for that reason. >> Right there. >> Yeah. I I was just curious what was
driving it. >> All right. >> So, at this point, if there aren't any more commentaries, I'll close the public portion of the hearing. Um, I I still want to say some stuff.
>> Um, well, I was just I'm just going back to what what Brennan pointed out in the in the um legal opinion, which is I think where I got the the line of argument that I set up here, which is that it says at the bottom that in outline commercial districts, single family dwellings are allowed by right
and the definition of a cottage dwelling is a detached single family dwelling. So I I feel like for me there is a clear way to in good conscience formalize and you know formalize and
grandfather in this long-standing decadesl long use to avoid the alternative of evicting nine families and subjecting the neighbors to you know having a transient motel next door. So
that's sort of what I would submit as the the the reasoning, the logical path to get from that first question to then my seven bullet points of why this thing is not um more detrimental than
uh a motel. So, if codex dwellings are in here as a matter of right, um, or single family detached dwellings are in here as a matter of right and the building inspector agrees with you, then you wouldn't be here,
right? >> No, I Well, he based on what the building inspector wrote, >> um, I think he did agree with us. Yeah, he he he wrote he wrote a letter uh agreeing that >> I think he he advised us to do this. In
fact, he thought it was going to be my interpretation was he thought it would be easy enough that we would not even need a new special permit but just re revise the old one. >> Fourth paragraph says that being said, my determination is that you need to reapply.
So that was that was an administrative that was not a good good suggestion to the ZVA for use as a long-term rental units in lie of the hotel motel use which was directed in these decisions. So that's that's what that's what reason why he directed to us is is the the
transient versus long-term use which again is the issue that I have. >> I don't see anywhere in this letter that says anything is a matter of right. >> It's at the bottom underneath section 145-5 the last paragraph. No.
What's the date? What's the date of your letter you're reading? Because I don't see that either. >> May 29th. >> September 29th, 2005. >> September or May. >> It's the >> It's the email from Beth. It's stamped September 30th.
>> Oh, I'm reading his letter on May 29th. But it doesn't say here. Okay. Um, single family dwellings. If you go look up the definition of a single family dwelling, does it say it has to be long-term? Does it say it has to be transient? No. So if it fit under
there for permitted uses, if that's what they were, multiple single family dwellings and nothing in the definition like you're trying to say for everything else says long-term or transient. >> Hold on. I'm not following. So to me,
the transient thing is coming from if you deem this to be a hotel or a motel, then that's where the transient term sneaks in. I'm saying if you re if you consider it to be a cottage dwelling which based on this is allowed and I'm saying that each of these is a single family unit that's under 1,800 square
feet and single family dwellings are allowed by right and OCD to me that's a clear way to say that therefore the motel definition doesn't necessarily apply therefore the transient you know what I mean the trans you don't need to go to >> that doesn't it say it allows cottage
dwellings it says single one family dwellings Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a single family dwelling. >> Single family dwelling, >> right? >> Yeah. Single family dwellings allowed by right. A cottage dwelling is a is a single family dwelling.
>> A building or partup design erected and used for continuous and permanent habitation for one or more families or individuals. >> A it just says a building. So question is can you have more than one dwelling on one lot? If you were to go that route, you'd be
better off calling them cottages to limit the square feet, >> right? Yeah. 18. >> You're saying the total square footage of all nine is >> each one can only be 1800 square.
>> Yeah. The intent of the cottage >> they're on >> for what? >> For high density development uh and an age restricted development. That's what they that's why they created that definition. >> The cottage dwellings was related to for high density
>> specific spec. Yeah, we're talking about specifically >> and properties on one one building. I've I'd only be saying what I said before, repeating this. >> What does this >> building? He's the temporary building.
>> Interim. Okay, that was a very good question. What was the question? Well, something about single family definition >> of the of the OCD. >> Yeah,
>> there's my ter classification we classify. There's non-owner occupied cottage dwellings as defined by shenan bylaw don't have to find right do we have cottage dwellings is defined
>> we have we do have a definition of said they could find it in 22 but it was specific to the age >> and and then it get it gets referenced with adus now as well >> did you find that
What was the the definition of of um think about time bondage dwellings was it in 2022 you said it was specific to the age >> it is specific it was created for the age restricted development does anyone have the definitions I I printed out 145
>> okay so yeah 1455 would have the definition of cottage dwelling but it doesn't say in the definition that it's specifically Right. >> For age restricted age restricted, right? >> But you can see when it was added the same year. >> That's what I was saying. Is it general to the Bible or is it specific to the second?
>> Doesn't matter. You're taking the term cottage dwelling and you're interpreting it to be single family dwelling. >> And if it was it would be under here as a permitted view. So cottage dwelling. They would have changed that if that's what they >> if they wanted it in there as a permitted use.
>> Can we pause there? I I don't really understand that. So why why is it because a cottage dwelling it there's other um constraints on that, right? It's the square footage. So why why can't a cottage dwelling be a more specific kind of single family dwelling? It says it's the it's a detached one
family dwelling that doesn't exceed 1,800 square feet. Why is that can't be why can't that be a subcategory of single family dwellings? >> You can call it whatever you want. You're still not getting me through transient versus long-term. >> But but but transient only applies to to
motel, >> right? So the trans there is no transient requirement on cottage dwellings. >> Yeah. Just that the building inspector that that was passed over, the building inspector defines transit as um occupancy for less than 30 days. So
that's >> I don't see that in the laws, but that's it. that he >> Okay. >> I don't I don't know that guy. So, I don't I know we we we share them with like four other towns, but >> So, if it if it wasn't defined in the bylaws, how how would any motel hotel be
expected to comply with it if if nobody would know what transient even really meant? >> The tr Well, the term transient it talks about I we read it. I'm getting >> a dictionary the dictionary
>> but it talks about temporary the hotel motel talks about temporary lodging that's on hotel motel in our definition section it talks about temporary lodging of persons who are lodged there so we use the term transient versus
temporary if it's tomato and tomato but that's we've been using transient for many years but the the bylaw defines it as as temporary Temporary. >> What's temporary? >> A person who is staying or working in a
place for only a short time. >> Yeah. >> Uh a momentary variation currently. >> But I think the cottage dwelling is I the um it is defined as far as temporary
dwell you know temporary residence not not long term. Can I just add some context for cottage dwelling definition >> in the age restricted bylaw? Um, looking at subsection C, subsection 4, it says
for cottage dwellings, two family dwellings and town houses, the minimum setback shall be 30 ft from all property lines in the RA and RV districts unless the planning board determines that a reduced setback is necessary to achieve the purposes of this section and will
not have a detrimental impact on the neighborhood. So when I read that, I feel like this this cottage traveling belongs in the RA or the RB district. Would that be right? >> It doesn't reference any other zone zone section. >> It's um I don't think it's anywhere else
in the bylaw. I do believe it was created for this >> here though the 1455 >> it's in the definitions. Correct. Yeah. But it isn't anywhere else in the B1 that I'm aware of. >> Um value
It could too. You It says added um May May 8th, 2021 at town meeting article 23. You would be you go back to the um the article itself and see what the what if it said the intent anything kind of statute. You just go back to the articles.
>> Yeah. So this this is the context of why creating dwellings. Can you describe what you just dropped off? >> Can you describe what what it is just so we have a context? Um, well, it basically, yeah, it's just like I said,
it's created for the age restricted development bylaw, which is uh grants higher density for developments that are age restricted. So, you can build more units on a smaller lot um if you comply
with the rest of it. Uh, the bylaw. So, yep. It does say here, you know, in the RA and RB districts for this particular bylaw. And you know, where it doesn't say it in the definitions, yeah,
>> it does say it in the bylaw. I don't think it can be transferable, but I don't know that. I know it says for college dwellings, two family dwellings and house town houses the minimum setback on all properties in RA and RB districts
but it doesn't say specifically any other districts. I can argue that. >> I just I can't get the the definition the difference between running a transient business with one single family home and a transient business to
rental property, long-term rental property when multif family isn't even allowed in the area. It's it's the bottom line really. You can get into definitions and all this stuff. You can try to read an S on something when that's not what it means.
It doesn't get it doesn't get you there, you know. Especially where somewhere else in the bylaw. I know single family needs one per lot. >> If they were gonna >> and where they're allowed >> for legality it would include us.
>> Oh, there's a lot of errors. >> They just didn't know how that was. >> Well, no, that was a town shot. Isn't that >> why we're as sort of why we've gone through this process to get a new a new
special permit be because it it doesn't >> uh comply neatly with anything currently. So I I thought that's sort of the the whole the whole purpose of this and and and we felt it
was less detrimental to the town. Um, >> okay. >> One more. One more thing on the single family dwellings. >> There's multiple allowed in the OCD district. It doesn't mean on one lot. >> It says detach single. There's one
family dwelling. >> So, I I would take that to be one one dwelling per law. So, >> if you're gonna make if you're gonna make an I try to get my my issue, that would be the one way to do it for sure.
>> Um, one way >> using using attached single as opposed to the hotel motel definition. I think they're I mean ultimately trying to find a place for this to fit in. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, >> no, it's valid. Anda in in previous
times we've had we've had discussions with applicants and we've suspended the application and give it was one time was like a year and a half or something like that. We gave we gave them time to to draft their own specific article for the next town meeting and we we put the we put the application as
long as the application is in obeyance and we're and we're holding it they're not going to they're not going to take action on you by as you say evict people because um because you're in the process >> you just have you would have to submit a letter in writing saying you agree to to um suspend the hearing um and we have to
continue for time specific I forget oh it was the do it was at dog place a A couple years ago, >> we had the groomer. Yeah. Because we continued that for like 18 months until she got the town meeting to vote on a new article that allowed her use. And >> the next >> two weeks later, we >> we passed it. It was like boom.
>> You're good. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, there is ways to get around. We've had we have history with that. I know you guys are probably trying to sell this as one of the one of the one of the issues that you are. Is this going to be marketed? Is that >> No, no, no, no, no, not at all. We're not trying to sell it. We're genuinely
trying to to just to do was trying to sell up. Sorry. >> No, no, we just want to comply with the law and do what's right and and I appreciate that there are other avenues to get this done on a longer time frame. I guess what I would say sort of as a
closing statement maybe is that from my perspective I I know that everybody here wants to do what's wants to find a way to do the thing that is right by the town, right? I think that is beneficial to Townson and to me seems like this is a question of is there enough gray area
to allow everybody to in good conscience formalize this arrangement that's been working successfully for the past two decades right and to me based on all the argumentation I've heard my view of it seems like there is enough gray area for
us for the board to vote in good conscience to allow this very unique particular case. >> Thank you. >> So, let me carry that one for I I again I'm I'm kind of a stick in the mud on the prohibited use thing. Um, but if if
if um if this if this was going to go down and and denied, as opposed to having it denied, would you be willing to entertain the prospect of drafting an article that that would make it allowed
as it as an allowed use in this particular? >> Yeah, it would just mean updating that zoning to include >> um long term rental. I'll tell them what the process is so they understand. They have no idea. >> Yeah. Well, you would have to you would have to draft you'd have to either get
the planning board or the selectment to basically um sponsor sponsor a new article or town meeting. You could do it yourself citizens petition I think 25 signatures. >> Yeah. >> And um and you just change change the wording to in change the wording to
include long-term long-term rental. That that's basically it. Then we wouldn't even be here. Well, my my feeling hearing this, I mean, in meetings past that we've had, there's been concern voiced by the board that if they allow th this niche case here, that's going to
open the floodgates to anyone who wants to build a bunch of buildings on a single OCD's plot and it's going to create issues. So, I guess from my perspective, I'm just saying if you if we just thread the needle on this one because it's so unique, that shuts the door. You don't have to allow anybody
else. But if I go and change the law, that does exactly what I heard the board was concerned about. And now anyone can just come in and oh, it's it's to to replicate this. >> Well, in that would recommend I would if recommend is it would be a special
permitted allowed under special permit >> instead of right. >> Instead of by right and then we would have that control. >> Where would they even put it? >> Yeah. I I would I would also say that in the years that I've done this, I've never been one that said if we do this
to this applicant, we have to do it to the other one. I've always treated every applicant different and unique. Um I've never been never >> But you've also heard oh but you gave it to him. >> I've never that's never taken any weight to me. I don't really care. >> But als
you know I I I don't think this is going to open up a niche thing. I mean, who's going to go out on 3 acres and build cottages that are 500 ft? You know, >> I don't think I think you guys are in a very unique situation. I think by having a special permit, do what you want is is
if it was possible by this by the bylaws, but if if it was an allowed use by the by the bylaw itself, that would be more of a a a stronger foundational use. Then you wouldn't have to special permit. It' be a matter of right. You wouldn't have to do all this stuff.
Well, by special permanent. Yeah. >> Would it be discriminatory if he wrote it specific to this property that wrote the >> No, we change. Well, that's So, you're talking spot zoning at that point. So, if you specifically said to this particular prop, you can't do that. That's spot zoning. But you would just
want to inject the words or long-term in the definition of OCD. That's all you'd have to do. >> And and Dave, you you did mention something earlier. I don't know if that's viable where you said if it was 10 years of use as a long-term.
>> So to to get to get there um we would deny you would go to you would have to appeal it to the district superior land court and then they have to point put that issue up at the litigation matter. >> Okay. Yeah. So that but it is another channel. >> Yeah. They've only owned it three years.
So yeah. How do you Yeah. I don't know how you approve that. >> How do you prove that? It's fact. It's fact-based. >> So, if if there's I don't and I don't know how I mean, I kind of can guess how some people are going to vote, but if this was going to be denied, would would
you rather have it suspended so you can give you time to change the bylaw to add the word long-term rental in as well? Is that something that you you would entertain? Would you be able to So, so the two options are denied or
suspended and and deny. >> Yeah. I mean, we don't know how everybody's going to vote. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, >> well, once we once we deny, if we do deny, then you then you you're tagged for two years. And that's state statute.
>> How long is the suspension? as long as you want. We we would cont the way we did it in the previous one is it had to do with a dog room facility. It was it was it was a bunch of stuff. It's actually more complicated than what you have. So, but she needed to have the bylaws changed. So, we continued I think
for 6 months. It has to be a date specific so we don't have to repost it, right? Which saves you guys money. 6 months, >> May 2nd, whatever. >> If we meet to do it that long, we didn't have to keep doing it. >> Yeah. May and then it was Yeah. And then we did a day second and we we hadn't
they still hadn't done it yet. They still had gone through special hadn't gotten the town meeting to approve it. Then we continued again for another four months or five months and I think we did it three times. It was 18 months but by the end of it >> I think it was that quite that long. >> Well there was a kennel and there was a groomer. >> Yeah. >> Remember so the groomer I think wasn't
as long as the kennel. >> Yeah. We did two different things. Yeah. Had to do but so we we you continue to a date specific and then you go to that date. We open the hearing. If you're not ready, we continue again, close the hearing, and we go back to the to the following date and keep going until you
get it approved. And then once that's done, then we then we take take notice of the new bylaw. And it's then you can actually withdraw your what happen? You just withdraw your uh your your application or if it's or if the changes by special permit, then we just
issue a special permit for that change. >> Always go through the special permit process. >> Yeah. Yeah. And actually what they applied for would kind of be the same. >> That would be the same. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think their application if the if the BO definitions change, your
application would would be spot on. So, >> so you're you're suggesting possibly changing the definition to include >> Is it specifically right long-term rental of
multiple single family dwellings or how how would you word it? >> Since you guys in the history of this thing, you guys have been deemed to be cottage. What is what's am I looking at? Yeah, >> you're looking under Garfield. I'm
looking for too many papers. >> Yeah, I know. Bear with me. I apologize. I'm just trying to find the I didn't do one draw because I I still think that's the problem with the one thing. >> But if you do um
who the heck is it? >> Hotel Motel. There we go. >> So So you've been considered a hotel motel since the pope was an alder boy, right? So it's it goes back a long time before you guys were probably even bought >> the carpool. >> Yeah. Carp
um for existing for existing hotel motel. >> I don't I don't I wouldn't make it complicated. I would just >> hotel motto a building there on a group of buildings on a single lot to be used for the temporary or long-term lodging
of persons. Period. And then it's done. I do you want to create a motel motel that get into the definition the definition problem >> but we have we have special permits from 09 and 10 that's that call them a hotel motel
>> I mean that's >> and specifically said transient because they had kitchens >> okay but now >> because we knew what they would do and they did it >> was based on the hotel motel if that definition included if the hotel motel definition included long-term rental.
Um, >> we would have been done. I'd be I'd be watching the Bruins right now. >> In which case, I would definitely want that under special permit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Cuz then people would Yeah. >> Well, who's going to build a hotel motel?
Um, >> well, there's Benjamin Hotel, right? And and don't do it without an attorney because it's going to affect other things in the bylaw. Like someone's going to go, "Okay, well, what about the multif family thing? That's 8 acres."
They're going to want to put other restrictions on this. So, they could guide you into the easiest way to word it or >> um define it. We we are not we're not allowed to like assist you in the creation of the new I mean we've I've
helped people in the past at at a hearing like this and made some suggestions and they they've run with it >> but the other the other board the other land use board the planning board that's that's one of the things that they do they can help you create that create a new an addition to the b I don't I don't
think it's I'm not looking to recreate the wheel just saying you just got to add the long-term in the definition. >> To me, it strikes me that that changing the definition of a motel to be a long-term residential
situation like that that like defies the English language in a way that I think that's a harder sell than what we're pitching to you right now. To me, it seems like the gray area here is is enough to just do this versus what what it it sounds like what you're suggesting
is is if it's an easier thing. I mean, to me, this seems much harder to do is to make the case that a hotel or a motel is long-term residential real estate. >> I I I understand >> I apply
recognize that you're trying to give us a an easy way to to make this change. I I guess I would just be concerned with if if you if it could be 18 months more than that, everybody living there would be in limbo.
um as to whether they have a house or not. Um I it it just it's it's very hard for me to to process that as opposed to just granting it. >> I said 18 months. Vicki Vicki corrected me. He said it was a little it was
shorter than that. We did we did it twice. >> Yes. The tell them the process. So this would go to the planning board. The planning board would have a public hearing on it. Open it up, you know, whoever wants to attend and then go over it. Um and once they put their um their
blessing on it then it goes to town meeting and it gets voted on at town meeting. >> So and usually the annual town meeting is in when do we do that now? >> April the first week of May. >> April May. >> Okay. >> So if if it and you have enough time to
do it but you have to get on it. Um and then do you have to wait for the AG's? It would be we could do it subject to the AG approval though. We could we could grant this uh after after our bylaw change, it goes to the attorney general, and that does
take a long time, but we could after the after um the town meeting approves it, if they did, we could resume this >> and and go through it and if it was granted, we do it just subject to AG. >> I the extensions that we did was we were
waiting for the AG's determination. So after the town meeting passes it. So t what happens when whenever you have a bylaw change that affects land use bylaw sections the attorney general reviews that sometimes they're fast and
sometimes they're not. Um but generally a couple months and now we we on the dog one we continued it once because the age was taking longer. It's all dependent on >> do they have a lot of things in there on their plate and what town's sending up stuff to review that kind of thing. Yeah,
>> but um you're looking at if if you get on it like Darlene said you and the AG responds in two months after town meeting and it's approved, you're looking at probably June. >> Okay. What happens if they say no? Like the board says it doesn't make
sense to have a hotel be a long-term residential >> thing. of the discussion in the commentary, they may come up with a better solution because that's what you know that's what the planning board does is is work on the bylaws and update the bylaws. So they may come up with
something better than what we're suggesting. So it wouldn't be a black and white thing with the planning board. It would be here's your proposal and they'd be like, you know, they'll get commentary. The planning board will might say, well, we we'll endorse this
if it's this way or we think this is the better way to do it. And then it goes to town meeting. >> So, um, >> yeah, I guess we initiated this
out of good faith because we thought that this was was better and it made more sense and aligned better with what would help towns and and it seems like now we kind of would be better off if we
had just done nothing. Um, and I guess that that >> I thought we were helping. >> What what I what I would say is that I um >> I I just I'm a little bit hesitant to be so optimistic about the process that you
outlined because I feel like it is sort of reminiscent of the process that I've been through to get to this point here where we've gone these stages. We've we've had I've been getting signals that this was going to be easier than it
turned out to be and it seems like there's always like a dead end like and that that's why I'm just hesitant to believe that oh no if I just go this other path they're going to help me rewrite the law to to make this work. I I just don't see how that is a path of
less resistance than what what we're doing here. me trying to keep arguing my case in different ways for in this forum. I can't imagine that that it's going to be easier the other way. And I'm just forgive me for being
pessimistic, but it just feels like that's going to be a redux of what we've been through to get to this point here. And it's been a lot of friction and rewriting things and just trying to find uh like I said just what
I think should be just a little bit of gray area to let everyone do do the thing that's right by the town. But it seems like we're like almost determined to find reasons not to do the the thing that it would be simple and less disruptive for the
citizens. And so that's why I'm just hesitant like am I really gonna go down this other p I would totally do it if I knew that >> can I just stop for a second the last time we had these conversation we went around and around and around for a really long time and I tried to tell you
you needed some help with this we can zoning board can sit here and like your proposal all day long and want to help you and do something with it but if the if it says we can't do it what we're trying to tell you. In my opinion, I'm going to vote no on this. When they make
a motion to approve this, I'm voting no. I can't get there. Um, so we're trying to tell you what an opposite solution may be. And you're not listening. There's no gray area with me on this. Um, you didn't you should have
sought some legal counsel to help you. You're reading it all wrong. You're trying to say, "Well, this is better for the town and we like this." Well, as much as we like it, that doesn't change. >> But that's what the legal opinion says is that if you guys determine it's less
detrimental, then it is okay. >> They're saying they can't even get to that point because they have that they're saying it's that's why I'm trying to say that that the cottage dwellings being single family dwellings which are allowed in OCD make them not hotel motel necessarily. That that's
that's at the core of it because they're saying they can't even get to the seven points of is it a not detrimental, >> right? >> And and and I guess yeah, if if you tell me there's really no it is totally black and white for you and there's no gray area at all, I understand. I'm I'm not
asking you to make a decision that that you think is black and white and asking you to vote the wrong way on it. I'm I'm just suggesting that from where I'm standing, there's enough gray area to do to do the right thing. But if if you disagree, then that's that's fine. if
you think it really is black and white just everything that that we've been over to me it's stands that there's enough gray area to move on to that second question about non n not detrimental but >> so I'm going to um so at this point I'm going to cut off public comment um I
think we've we've heard the arguments uh from our applicants thank you we appreciate the frustration this isn't always easy uh zoning board is not about gray areas it's about applying the bylaws and uh as to our best of our
ability at this point. So at this point I think there's some options you we could continue the hearing to allow you time to pursue other you know whether it's a zoning change whether it's um
getting legal counsel um looking at some other options or we could move forward with a motion um at this point of to what does the applicant want. So for so I'm going to open this uh you know back to you. What
would you like us to do? >> Um >> if we go forward and it's turned down, it's done for two years. >> Yeah. Okay. So let's not do that. Um and we'll go down the other route.
>> Well, I can inject. So there's five people here. So you need it's a three. It's a majority vote. >> Oh, it's only three. I thought it was four. >> Three or four? Five. When five people are voting, is it three or four? >> Three.
>> Majority of majority. Yeah. >> For what? >> For a special. >> No, it's four. >> No, that's a business. Yes. Actually, yes, it's three for business, right? Four for a special permit. >> You're talking about where for a quorum? >> I'm talking about I'm talking about the decision itself. If you have a board of
five, you need a majority vote. You want to find it again? >> I believe that's what I was going to what I was going I just wanted to tell you that >> specifically says in our bylaw the quorum for a special perimeter of variance is four people. >> It's part of the
>> which means you need four out of five. >> Can you find that? >> I think it's majority. I just want I just want to tell you the process that I go through because I'm I don't come here predetermined to make a vote. I when I get an when I get a package like I did
before the 19th. I look at it and I say, "What do you want to do?" I get the bylaw section. I read them and then my first question is, "Do we have the authority and jurisdiction to do what we they're asking us to do?" That's that's my first step. I don't even look at the facts. I just say, "Do we have the authorizational jurisdiction? If I can't
get past that, I can't get past the if I can't pass that, I can't do the other section." That's and that's where I am. It's and it's when you talk about doing the right thing, as Vicki said, there is no the right thing is to follow the bylaws. That's what that's what we're here for. We're not it's the zoning board of appeals. We're not we're a
reactive board that people come to us with questions or applications or you know whatever. We don't look for trouble. We don't we don't go out and find find violations in poling. We're not policing. Although some people in the past have done it. >> Um >> it's so
I again I just I just have that prohibited use section. I just can't pass that. But if you if you did an amendment to one of the bylaws, however they however you want to do it that allows for long term, I'm good. I I fly
through this seven findings. I have no problem. >> Beth Wood, what was it? >> Four concurrent votes. >> So it's four concurring. So it's not a simple majority >> or concurrent. >> Good darling. Good. >> All right. So um I'm gonna So based on all that, what would you the applicant
like to do? What would we like to do at says interjected administratively? I just want to be sure that that's okay if they just continue this and continue that. >> We've done it. >> We've done it. >> I know we had, but I want to I want to make sure that this isn't a constructive >> Well, they have to. So, they have a
timeline. >> Yeah. Well, they have to they have to submit a a something in writing that says they agree to continue it. Every time we continue, they have to agree to it. >> Yeah. They need to uh >> we have 90 90 days >> give the board relief from the statutory deadlines.
>> What's the stat? Is it 90 days? >> Uh 90 days. >> Yeah. So just as what we're talking about guys, we at the application, we have 90 days to react and to make a decision or it's constructively granted. That's how it works. In order to get past that and continue this, you would
have to submit a a letter in writing to the board saying that you agree to continue this until such time as a town meeting or some however you want to do it. But it's got to be in writing or we can't do it. >> And if you close the public hearing, that's a different scenario. >> Yeah.
>> If you close public hearing now, then they cannot continue with >> I just I close public comment. >> Yeah, that changes it. >> Yeah, we didn't need to >> We didn't close the hearing. >> Well, we didn't close the hearing though. >> I thought public comment. >> Got you. That's still You don't want to
do that either. >> You don't want to do that, right? >> Right. If you're going to if you're going to come back into session and look at the bylaw differently, you don't want to you want public comment to be able to happen. >> I would but we didn't vote on it. So you can undo it. Okay. I um
>> I would resend the closing of public comments. But >> so going back we talked about you have to you'd have to give a writing to agree to extension. >> How about if they withdraw it again? >> Then they have to pay. >> No, we can wave it. >> Yeah. But but how will that if it's
suspended will it keep >> it's not going to keep the building inspector from advance from doing a cease desist. >> So we're talking about if you continue it then they can't take action against you by evicting or cease and desist or whatever. >> That's a good point. >> If you cancel if you withdraw your
application then you're free then you're fair game. >> It would be better to continue it and do your and do your stuff. Would he really if he knows they're doing if they're going? >> What happens and he's a temporary building? What happens we get some kind of another one? That's >> what if a letter
>> I think it would be better if you continued it with a letter accepting the extension doing it that way. >> Okay, >> that's my opinion. >> And Beth, is there any special town meetings scheduled that you maybe one in January? I heard. Okay. So, yeah.
>> Not enough time, not enough time. >> Cleaning board has to they have less time period. >> I mean, they can do it. They can do it on their own. >> No, they can do the citizen. >> They can do a citizen petition in 25 votes. >> Yeah. For a special town meeting,
>> but to get the town to agree to it, the planning board should be behind it. >> I think it adds weight. >> Yeah. But a lot but you could you could. So what we're talking about I don't know if you're hearing all the mumbles going on. Um there's a special town meeting
coming up in January which does not allow for enough time through the planning board through public comment and public hearing that kind of thing. But you could do your own suggested amendment with 25 signatures. I mean you got nine of them right there in your property and you just need a few more
right. Um, and you can and then you could have that article an article drafted and and put on put in on the floor at the town meeting as a citizens petition. Darling, what Darlene's concern was that if the planning board doesn't look at it first, they may they may say no, which
sometimes that sways people. But if you had someone speaking, you could I mean, you both speak very well. You could have an attorney or you could speak for yourself at the town meeting and why you want to do it. I mean, if you if you did the if you did it that way, you did a citizens
petition, you could you probably talk in March before and you could be we could be back here in March versus April, right? >> What if they did that and the town voted it down? Is there again? >> Yeah, there's no restriction.
>> There's no restriction. All right. You can keep bringing things back up. Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, so to clarify, >> yeah, I think we're on the I want to clarify the path forward. So, if I have my notes correct. So, you're suggesting
we we do this, get the signatures, schedule this hearing to change the law itself, and we hire an attorney to make the case for why the town should change the law, the definition, specifically the definition of a hotel and a motel to
be long-term residential housing. Well, he's saying we can do it sooner without an attorney if we want, but the planning board wouldn't see it um necessarily, or we can do it with an at, but we can do it ourselves if we get 25 signatures. But the first step would be
you need correspondence from us saying that we accept an extension on >> No, that you're request agree agree to continue the hearing. >> Yeah. >> And it's got to be a date specific. we have to say. So, the thing is if if if
you're looking to try to get on in January, we'd probably continue it to J to March. But if if if it hasn't happened yet, then we're going to have to continue it again. Or if it happens right away, you still got to wait till March to take action because you >> Oh, right. >> You don't want to go too far out where
where you're just hanging there waiting, especially if it's been approved. >> You know what I'm saying? So, so the first step would would definitely be to write get something in writing to you saying we're agreeing to the extension of the hearing. Just first
>> is there any way you could send Beth an email right now before we close this thing? >> Yeah, I can. >> Yeah. Can you do that? >> Comment. >> Huh? >> You want to reopen the send? >> Yeah. Send send Beth before we get out
of here. Send send Beth an email confirming your your your agreement to continue just so we don't I don't want to not that I don't trust you but >> you just want you don't want to drop anything >> well forget or
>> okay thank you we we will do that. >> So are you guys recommending a time for this continuence? General, can I ask you would you would you try to shoot for the January or would you go for the April Tommy? >> Oh, you mean May?
>> May. Sorry. >> I'm I'm >> suggestion. If you're not looking, there's no timetable emerging timetable. Why don't you wait till May and get it done through the planning board? >> Okay. >> There's no there's no restraint. If you're not looking to market the
property, you're not looking to do anything different. Why why why squeeze it? >> Yeah. No, I I I agree. We we we can go we can go longer uh to but we can if if we if we can if it goes through the
planning board can we still do it as the citizens petition with 25 signatures or does it have to be done differently? >> If you go to the planning board they would they would be the they would be the sponsor of of of your um your article. It would be submitted to meeting by the planning board which
carries more weight. >> Okay. So, we would go we would be going directly to the planning board. >> Yeah. And Beth can help you with that. >> Yeah. >> No, >> it's it's tough. I mean, it is a request a specific request
>> that would they would have to do the petition. >> That's that's how I understand it to happen. >> Yeah. Talk to you. mistly a request for their >> their what she's saying you would d you would draft something and submit it to the pling board for for um
>> well they can't just go in front of the planning board and they could sponsor it if they voluntarily want to sponsor it >> they could guess I've never seen that before you know to someone have a specific change to the zoning bylaw to benefit
>> themselves how did that happen >> we changed Right. But like how about like did the applicant go to the planning board because it went through a planning board? >> I think it was the planning board. Was that >> a petition? It goes first to the board
of swman and then to the planning board public hearing. The planning board won't make up zoning bylaw amendments for no reason if you will. >> So they got they have to they have to be requested to do it by the applicant.
>> Mr. attorney or if the ZBA request it. I think that's how we did the dog. I think the ZBA actually requested that. >> But I can find out more. >> Well, we if we do that have to make a motion that done. >> Say it again.
uh if if you if you've previously gone to the to the uh planning board before uh for this dog facility, are are you able to do that for for this scenario? >> We didn't. >> Yeah, we I think we sent I think we sent >> we recommended
>> we sent we made it we submitted something to the planning question. >> Did we? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, because it was a definition. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We just added we added dog grooming into >> we just added the term dog grooming into a definition.
>> That's right. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was very it was very similar but able to do that for us. >> You know what the >> is for in here and say existing motel
can be don't have to be transient. They could be long-term rentals and that way it doesn't affect any other property. It's the only the only one in town at this point because he did Benjamin Hawk. Yeah. That went to condos.
>> When did do you guys know when the motel first became when they were first erected? You know, >> we we just we just know of the renovations that were approved for the special permanent. I think 2009 I think
it was, but I don't know when they were first built. >> The way to fix the way to fix that is like Donnie says hotel motel um shall include long-term long-term rentals for structures in existence as a date of this bylaw >> and then you then you preclude anybody
from doing it. It would be the easy and that way you wouldn't it would be easier for an attorney to do it with you because now they don't have to read the whole bylaw and see what other sections of the bylaw it contrasts with and fix
all kinds of other things. Um I don't know. >> Oh boy. I think we're getting wrapped around the axle. I really do. All right. >> I'd rather see it be made to fit this by a lot.
>> Yeah. And >> I think it does. >> That's That's the problem. I think you have two people and three I don't even know how big. She's always She's always kind of hit her cards really. I know you you two guys would probably
vote in favor. Um I think Darling and I would vote against and I don't know where Vicki is, but then doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. That's why I was if it was three to two then I would say let's vote make a motion I'll even second by vote >> I was going to make the motion to grant it then vote no
>> so I understand why I do that by just if we deny it's going to it's going to cave them in for two years >> welcome to the zoning board this happens every once in a while >> it does >> just to put cottage dwelling and ADUs into context a little bit those are
allowed on you know properties are half acres lots now four houses next to each other. >> Yeah, >> same. >> That's the overlay district we just we just created for >> and you have four additional units or penny homes. It's
same density as these essentially. >> Yeah. Unfort doesn't just >> doesn't say it. It doesn't allow it. >> It's not there. >> That's the problem. >> It's not there. >> I told you.
And I told you you're reading an S wrong. >> Exactly. >> That's why >> you talk about the one talking about the It actually has the the word one in parenthesis though.
>> Yeah. I don't I don't think that I don't think >> Have you read every single word in this by the zoning bylaw? Every single word. I have actually you're going to find >> I don't think I can actually >> go find prohibited
>> people said would say yes to that >> um >> well over the years come on >> they'll they'll probably >> Oh my god >> that was next to my bed I read it great bedtime reading um and then there there's just so many aspects of the rest
of the bylaw that that tell you that not a plural >> because it was written in five different iterations and they reference each other all this That's why you're suggesting the easier the easier change you suggest that doesn't affect other areas of the bylaw
they have to go and fix to complement his >> if you just again if you just take that CD section >> 14529 on C C5 hotel shall shall include shall include long-term rentals for structures in existence at the time of the
>> Okay, here we go. Um, in the outline commercial district bylaw >> permitted uses, which means you don't need a special permit, it says hotel mil in operation prior to January 1st, 1970. >> Yeah.
>> So, I think that uh provided the requirements of 14535, 14542, and 14565. >> That's the reason why they needed a special permit because of the kitchens.
Yeah. Um and then by um special permit hotel motel. So um so what was my point there? >> I don't know. That's >> other than I saw that it was prior to January 1. So that remember we were
trying to limit to existing >> but there's nothing there's nothing in in the playbook now that something something's being constructed. So if you're just in existence as the time of this bylaw, January 1st, 2026, >> yeah, >> you you you eliminate the the copycats, >> right?
>> You don't even I don't even if you make it specific to when Harris Motel was created than it is, then it might be more considered spot zoning than just general. >> Go back to Benjamin Motel. Well, they >> they both they both were constructed
prior to the bylaws. That's where they that's how they got got around it. We just try to make bylaws to fit those cookie cutters. So the you're proposing that we update the definition of hotel motel or >> 149 outline commercial district is
allowed by special permit from the board of appeals motel um which shall include long-term rentals for um >> shall include kitchens and be used longterm >> long-term structures existence of
January 1st 2026 or something like that. It's not spot because it's it's general, but it's there's only one prop. It's only one property that applies to, but it would take care of your problem, guys. And then then you'd come back here. Then we would issue a special permit like you wanted with the seven
points non-detrimental. We then you'd fly through it. >> Do we want to recommend as a board to the planning board with that word? >> I would I I guess I got the impression though that not everybody agreed that it was not detrimental. So we would come back
and then potentially be turned down. >> No, I think I think if I if I may may be Houdini's ball here, I think the only if we all if the five of us are still on this board, it would probably be a photo of four to one
>> and that would be sufficient. You being the detrimental part. Well, there's a lot of things that you know, but I pointed out some things that may and if it's a special permit, you could, you know, they said, "Oh, we're not going to allow animal." I don't know
what I'm just like throwing stuff out there. >> Okay. Worst case scenario based on what people said. >> Based on the size of it, you're limited in people as well. So, um, and just answer the questions, >> be fine. I mean, Dolly and I have been
talking non-stop. Kobe and Rob, what do you say? I was doing it this way. I know you you if if the permit's not going to fly, you think about doing it this way. >> I think that's the only way. I don't want to
>> That's why I something like that. So >> I agree. Yeah. >> What about the what about the suggestion on 14529 the wording that? >> Yeah. So it would be hotel motel. So this would still be considered a hotel
motel but allows long-term rentals >> with kitchens for structures in exist with kitchens for structures in existence January 1st 2026 or pick a date you know just as long as it's after it's predates the uh by someone can't go and say oh get a >> how could you yeah a special permit you
just saw the veter how could you say no if the town meeting allowed it you'd say everyone thinks it's fine how could it be detrimental to the neighborhood >> n that's the only path I see. >> Yeah. >> And we we could make a recommendation
suggestion to the planning board to to modify 145-29 C5, but they may they may find a different route to take. I don't know that I think that's the simplest straight most straightforward
um path. That's >> okay. Are are we able to >> um request that that you you could potentially uh bring that up to the the planning board or the zoning board um or
the planning board um to make this change to the bylaw. >> We can make a motion to recommend the planning board um this update and >> um we'll send it off. So, what I would
hope is that when it got to the planning board and there was a meeting about it that it would be great to have you guys there to support it. >> This is what I just sent over to Addison. Is this what you were thinking? A request for extension. I just want to
make sure we're doing this. Oh, it's up on the Oh, yes. Looks >> I just sent this to you in an email, Addison. Do you see it? We can see screen. Yeah, >> this is muted. I don't know if you realize.
>> Sorry about that. Yeah, I didn't realize. Um, okay. So, is it enough for me just to reply to this saying I agree or do you want me to print it, sign it, email it back? >> No, I think so. Just email saying you agree because I think it locks in. Would you agree with that?
>> You can you can take care of signing it and sending me a signed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Say you you agree with that. You'll follow up with with a with a signed hard copy in the mail. Something like that. >> Okay. >> Okay. We'll reply with email right away saying we agree and then we'll print it,
sign it, fill it out, sign it, send it in physically. >> Yeah. I would I would have been I would have been hard I would be remissed to continue a hearing for four months without something and usually usually the applicants are in front of us, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, you just sign something and just give it to us. But
>> yeah, we're both local. We just we I guess we didn't think it would turn into >> That's okay. >> This much. >> But but by having an email with your with your um commitment that you're going to sign it and return a snail mail copy, hard copy, that's fine.
>> And And I put June 30th, 2026. >> What is it? >> June. >> That's what we did. >> Yeah. So May, that's probably right. >> And then you make that motion. >> So Rob, I was you were writing some stuff when we were talking. I I have
this problem. I have I I talk a lot. I say things in most, but I don't remember what I said. So I don't write a lot. >> She was I used to use a daily life. >> Yeah. Yeah, I take the phone out. I just talk and I put it in. Right. So, so the
hotel motto, we say something like two >> to um I'm going to allow for long-term rental and kitchen. >> Hotel and motel shall include long-term rental in use prior to >> and kitchens >> with kitchen with >> prior to what January
>> 2026. We got >> David seconds. >> David David second. >> All right. >> Do you agree with that? >> Okay. >> Any discussion? >> Any discussion? >> Roll call. >> Oh, wait. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah. >> You want to add in a square footage requirement or maximum >> to minim So, let's talk about the the probability of somebody being able to get. So, if we do this and they get a permit and they
get it all approved before town meeting, what's the likelihood of that going to happen? I don't know. Because right now we're dealing with 4 500 foot structures. >> Is that what they are? >> They're tiny. >> Guys, how how big is your units average? It's like 4 to 500 ft or less.
>> About that, right? About 500. >> 5 and a half. They're tiny. >> Are they all onebedrooms? It would have to be, right? loss. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. With a bathroom and then just a a kitchen and and and bedroom com sort of
combination. Yes. >> Would you feel com more comfortable if you put a square footage and not and you can just say you can amend the motion saying for in for infrastructures not to exceed 500 square feet per unit. What's the largest
you have? They're all similar, but I I I wouldn't have a specific value. So, I I I don't know if 500 would be like cutting it right on the razor's edge, but I don't know >> typically under 700.
>> So, so we'll do that to exceed. So, >> yeah. >> So, that's So, so you would need to make an motion to amend amend the motions by including a square footage. Second. David second.
>> You didn't see that before. >> What What is the square footage? >> Not to exceed 700 square ft. >> So, could you read the motion, General? >> Hotel motel shall include long-term rental with kitchens in use prior to January 2026, not to exceed 700 square
feet >> per per structure. >> Per structure. >> Darlene, yes. And but this motion it's to the planning board. >> Yeah. I'm not following on that motion.
>> So it's a it's a motion to request assistance from the planning board. >> Oh, okay. From the >> prior to you're going to set a date prior to that's probably not usable, >> right? No, the date of this that the changes will apply to only structures that were
>> Yeah. >> No, this is wording for the actual suggested look. >> Oh, it's a it's a look back period. So you can't get a copycat in the future. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. >> I'll listen to the video. >> Good luck. >> All right. All right. So Dave,
>> Dave, yes. >> That's Darlene Sedano. Yes. >> Junior. Yes. >> Rob. Yes. >> Vicki Chaniki. Yes. >> And that motion that motion did include that as a referral to the planning board for assistance, right? >> Yes.
>> There you go. >> And so what's the process? Will you bring that to that or do you like need to work with me and and we bring it together? I don't know. >> Uh I with your motion I can bring it to the next planning board meeting. >> Yes. >> When are they meeting next? >> December 8th on Monday.
>> Okay. >> December 8th. So they'll talk about it. I don't know what the process is like. How long is it? 30 days 60 days. Why do I think it's something 60 days after? So what they what they what they do is they draft some they may they may like this and stamp it or they may work on their own version and then they have then they
have a public comment hearing and they have a hearing on it and then then they submit it to the submit an article to the select one for for inclusion. >> Yeah. So it likely will be done by the >> How long is the hearing notices? >> Uh how long do we have to before the
town meeting to >> Yeah. the planning. But when they when they put a notice up for a hearing, you know, public comment on a bylaw change, how long is that? >> How long is what they're posting? >> No. So, you have public comments on a on a change to a bylaw. How long do they how long is that period do they give
people to comment? >> Oh, we have I think it's like two weeks. I mean, the public hearing is posted and you have to post it and publish it two weeks prior to the hearing. So, that's the comment. >> That's what I said. We don't have enough time for January. >> Don't in January. >> Yeah. Well, if it's the end of January,
we might >> might even squeeze in by January. >> You know, by the end of January, and I don't there's no date set yet, so I'm assuming it's the end. But if we continue this to May, you can't make it sooner, right? >> You can't meet earlier or can you?
>> But you have to read post. >> That's right. You have to read post. So maybe you don't want to go to that five. I don't know. I think it's better to be conservative, you know, because if you don't make the January meeting then, yeah, it's not going to be.
>> So, gentlemen, if the issue is if you guys if you if this gets to the planning board on Monday, the meeting the planning board's meeting on Monday the 8th, they can they turn this around and they get it approved for the town meeting in January and it gets approved. We can't do anything until June,
>> but it'll be most likely that the AG will have approved it by then. And you know, it's coming up, >> right? It's >> I have another question. Well, another Yeah. question. >> Can zoning changes take place at special
meetings or they have to be annual? >> No, it can be. I've seen them at special town meetings. >> Yeah. And that special town meeting has not been declared yet, if you will. >> What's it for? >> We don't know. >> We don't even know what it's for.
>> Usually sometimes that's just like we always had our specials by the end of Janu November. >> Yeah, it's used to be September. >> Well, that's >> a few months after the, you know, the fiscal year ended. >> All right. So, at this point,
>> Vicki, >> yes, >> it's Laura Shiffren. I had my hand up before. >> Sorry. >> So, I so I put it down, but I'll put my hand up again if you'll allow me to speak. Um,
>> uh, as selectmen, we are, uh, discussing the special meeting on the 8th. So Monday, we meet again on Monday from 3 to 6 >> and that will be on the agenda. >> Laura, is that January 8th is a
>> January January special is going to be on our agenda to talk about on Monday the 8th. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Do you have any idea when the when the projected date is for the special town meeting? hope. Well,
we had discussed last week that by the end of January is when we would like to see the special, so I don't know yet, but we have things come up every day. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, that still would >> if they got if if the if the town
meeting was held at the end of January and everything happened exactly how it should, it might they might get it done and submit it to the AG's office by February 1st. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Good work. I think that all of you are doing a great job and to the applicant
they're really trying to help you and planning is very accommodating and helpful. So from my experience um >> y agree with that. >> I think >> that's encouraging. Thank you. >> Yes, they are and Beth is too. She'll
walk you through everything. And um as far as when the and um Darlene may be able to find this out. I couldn't on public record. I was looking while you were speaking regarding the age of when
the bungalows were built. Um, it's not on there now, but in their field cards in the assessor's office or in the building inspector's office, they would have the plans, the permits or whatever
for that address. So, you might want to check with that. And all I can tell you is I've been here 49 years and I believe that those cottages were there. >> Yeah. >> When I first moved here. So when or if
it's before 1970, I don't know. I was here in 76. Um, so wish you luck. >> I think everybody will help you. What >> bylaws were injected because that's that's why Harrison motel that's why
they created this hotel motel bylaws because the Harris was already constructed. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. No, I think I think we our motion to to go to the planning board was just to say that this only applies to structures in existence as of January 1st of 2026, so
we don't have copycats coming down the road. >> Yeah, I think I I've heard your discussion and I think it was great. Good job. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, I think we're we're good with Is there anything we need to do? Any loose ends on this? Um,
>> so we got we got the motion to the planning board. We need to make the most to continue January June 9th. >> Oh, continue the hearing. Yeah. You want to go with the June 30th? >> I think so. I think I think Vickiy's right. If even if this gets done by the
town meeting in January, then you then you have four months for the AG's office to approve the bylaw. >> Yeah. >> You know, it may they may get done a month before. But >> yeah, but in the meantime, you're you're good. You >> you're good. Operator operator operate
as normal. That was very helpful. Thank you. Yeah. So, June 30th, 2026 to continue June 30. And that's what that's what you sent to him. June 30th. >> Yeah. In the extension. >> A motion on a motion that we continue the hearing to June 30th, 2026 at 6:30.
>> What's your name? >> 35. >> 635. >> Darlene seconds. >> All right. I'm going to start on this side. Left side. >> Sorry. Sorry. You say yes. >> Hope yes. >> Darlene. Yes. >> Damn. Yes.
>> And Vicki Chaniki. Yes. >> Okay. Uh so thank you guys for your patience. Um >> it should >> we have a path forward. >> It should work. >> And uh yeah, just maybe um if you can come to the next the December 8th
planning board. You're going to put it on the agenda >> Monday. I can add it to the agenda. Yeah. Okay. >> Definitely. Yeah. I'll see if I can make it. >> Oh, thank you. Yeah. And I don't that section. Did you reference that
section in the motion? You did, right? >> I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um All right. So, we're good with that. Uh anything else on our agenda now? I've lost my favorite. >> Yep. Uh is there any
>> I was supposed to have jury duty today. My fourth time. I' never I've they've always let me off because I was on attorney. >> Yeah. >> I was hoping to get in and make someone's life really. I got a call yesterday. >> All right. Um, is there any
correspondence we should be aware of benefits? >> Um, I don't think I put any in this time. Did I? I'm pretty sure I don't see any in there. >> All right. So we have a motion tojourn for the evening.
>> So move David Chan also move seconds. >> All right, Robert, why don't you start us off? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Darling, >> David, yes. and Vicki S.