Good evening everyone. My name is Laura Shiffren and I will call the meeting to order of the select board on October 21st, 2025 at 7 at excuse me 5:03 p.m. Roll call.
>> Veronica Cal present. >> Laura Shiffren present. Join me in the pledge of allegiance, please. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'd like to thank all of our veterans as well as our current military serving here and abroad. All of our first responders and all of
our elected and appointed officials as well as their families that help us achieve things for our community. Uh our meeting is being recorded and will be uploaded to YouTube. Is there
anyone else recording? Hearing none. Chairman's additions or deletions. I do not have any this evening. 1.5. Review approve the meeting minutes
of October 7th, 2025. Is there a motion? >> I move to approve the meeting minutes for October 7th, 2025. >> Veronica Kel second. >> Okay. Do you want to first? >> Yep. >> Statement. >> Oh,
>> okay. Just we have to get used to this. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> So, I probably should say I, Valerie Goodidge, move to approve the meeting minutes for October 7th, 2025. That would be a first. >> Okay. And >> I've already seconded this. >> Veronica already seconded.
Okay. Any discussion? >> I have none. Ether hearing none. Roll call vote. >> Veronica Kelly. Yes. >> Valerie Guchess >> and Laura Shiffren. Yes. Um going to go down to
>> Okay. I've got five minutes. So seeing that we have five minutes, I think. >> Are you with me? >> Yep. >> Yes. >> 4.1. Is there a motion? >> Um, I move to approve and sign out of session all 2026 renewals for
entertainment licenses contingent upon receipt of required documentation and pavement payment. >> And that was I Valerie >> and Veronica Keel second. >> Okay. Any discussion hearing? None. Roll call vote.
>> Veronica, yes. Yes. Laura Shepron, yes. 4.2. Is there a motion? I Valerie Gooditch move to approve and sign out of session all 2026 renewals for class one, two, and three licenses contingent upon
receipt of required documentation and payment. >> Is there a second? >> Um um Veronica second. >> Is there discussion hearing? None. Roll call a vote. >> Veronica, yes.
>> Yes. Laura from Yes. >> I think I think we need a second motion on that for both 41 and 42 to approve and sign these out of session. >> We did. >> We did included one. >> Oh, at the beginning the beginning
>> and and we just got two. >> Yeah. And >> yeah. Okay. >> Now I'm looking >> and I'll entertain a motion. I, Valerie Giddage, move to approve the Christmas tree license to sell Christmas trees at the Town Kelman by Lions Club 2025 for
November 21st, 2025 to December 21st, 2025. >> Veronica Cal 7. >> Okay, any discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote. >> Veronica, yes. >> Valerie, get her. Yes. >> And Laura, yes.
I'm going to skip 4.4. That'll take too long. >> 4.14 might be pretty. >> Thank you. 4.4. Is there a motion? >> I Valerie Gooditch move to set the trick-or-treating time for towns in
Massachusetts to October 31st, 2025 from 6 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. >> second. >> Any discussion? >> Hearing none. Roll call vote. >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Do you think we can do 4.16 in two minutes? >> Is there a motion? >> I Gooditch. Move to approve the contract for surveying work with Dillis and Roy funded by grant to be signed out of session. Well, I can call second.
>> Any discussion? >> It seems pretty straightforward. Is there anything we need >> to know extra? >> Excuse me. >> It seemed pretty straightforward. >> Yep. It's a It's through a a grant that the conservation commission has received
and they're just doing um land surveying work at this part. >> A good idea. >> Yeah. And I looked to make sure it was they were putting pins in or whatever and they are. Okay, we're good. >> Very good. Roll call vote.
>> Veronica. Yes. Valeress >> and Laura. Yes. >> Thank you for those. Next, we're going down to 610 510. Um, executive 6.1,
executive session pursuant to open meeting law, chapter 30A, section 21A3, to discuss strategy with respect to litigation, namely RFS Corp versus Town of Townsen,
Middle Sex Superior Court Docket number 2581 CV is in Victor 02381. one or an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigation
position of the board and the chair so declares. I, Laura Shiffron, move to enter into executive session at 5:10 p.m. Pursuant to open meeting law chapter 3A section 21A3
to discuss strategy with respect to litigation namely RFS Corp versus Town Townsen Middle Sex Superior Court docket number 2581C vistor 02381
where an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the litigation position of the board and the chair. So declares worship and declare. I know I've done this now three times for the same thing.
>> Is there is there a second? >> 6 o' >> Veronica Ke second. >> Any discussion hearing? None. Roll call vote. >> Veronica Keel. Yes. Good. Yes.
>> And Laura Shrim. Yes. Thank you very much. >> Um, TCAM, we will be um coming back into open session after the executive session concludes. Um, I'm anticipating that to be uh about six o'clock. So, you
can pause recording for now. >> Hi everyone. We're back in our general session and because is Adam back on? >> Jane. Yep, they're both.
>> We do have council on. So, our next item will be >> eight or nine. >> 4.9. >> 4.9. 4.9. Restructuring of departments. Uh so Adam and Jane um you know the
select board and myself have been um thinking about uh next year budget um and you know there might be potentially cost savings to you know restructuring certain departments uh here in town. And
certainly a public works department has been um um considered um multiple times over the years here in Townsen. Um so the select board is looking to uh sort of resurrect that conversation and just wanted to
have a discussion about it because a lot of these departments um are kind of under you know a elected board or commission um and then we have um a town meeting that an article needs to be put
forth. So, I just wanted to um discuss what the what that process might look like and whether there's some challenges ahead to um to accomplish any of those things. >> So, I can address very generally um the
requirements of the charter. So the the charter like most municipal charters does address um the re uh restructuring or potential restructuring of uh of town government of of administrative functions in particular. Um so uh I just
pulled that up. It's section 5-1 uh lowercase letter A number two 5-1 A2. It's under a section entitled administration of government. And it says that the town administrator after consultation with the select board can
from time to time prepare and submit to town meeting plans for organization or reorganization that would establish uh operating divisions for the conduct of business of the town. And it goes on to prescribe
the process. If the town administrator prepares such a plan, the select board is required to hold at least one public hearing on the proposal with notice in a newspaper of general circulation. Specifies when that notice has to occur. And then it says that following the public hearing the proposal which is
subject to amendment after the public hearing in response to any feedback that might be received at the public hearing uh gets submitted as I had said earlier to town meeting in the form of an appropriate warrant article for a town meeting vote and requires a simple
majority town meeting vote. So in terms of process and procedure that's all prescribed by by the charter. Um what you've got to be mindful of is um not doing anything under the guise of organization or reorganization
that would alter the uh authority, purview, discretion of boards, commissions, committees, uh town officials or departments that is otherwise specified in in the town charter um without a charter amendment.
So if the charter specifies that a particular public body is charged with doing X Y and Z, while you can reorganize or restructure town government in terms of um lines of communication or consolidation for um
ease of administration of day-to-day functions. um you you can't alter or amend the charge of the charter as it relates to that particular public body without otherwise amending the charter. You could you could do it um in conjunction with a town meeting vote on
a reorganization plan. You could also propose a charter amendment, but as you know that charter amendment um is required to follow the the usual amendment process and yours is a special act charter. So that process requires submittal to the state legislature for
votes of the of both the house and the senate and uh ultimately endorsement by the governor. And um while simpler charter amendments that are not full wholesale revisions to the charter uh are typically um approved more quickly,
that's no guarantee that you know quickly is actually quick. Um we waited over 3 years on uh the approval of the last um charter um charter amendment which again was a wholesale amendment. And so I wouldn't anticipate waiting
quite that long but um it's not unusual to wait um 6 months 9 months a year or more even on fairly routine charter amendments um when when legislative actions required. So, so it it sounds like um we have to
be pretty mindful of um you know the current um various boards and committees and how the charter um delineates sort of their responsibilities and roles and you know we have to make sure we don't um make any changes that would conflict
with what's currently in the charter. >> That that's right. I mean, remember the the charter establishes a framework, but it it doesn't um dictate the uh authority of every public body in towns. In fact, there's a a limited number of
uh it addresses elected officials and in some instances elected public bodies uh in article 3 um by separate sections. So section 3-2 is a select board. Section 3-3 is the moderator. And it goes on to address the town clerk, the assessors,
the board of health, the planning board, the water commissioners, the library trustees, cemetery and parks commission, recreation commission, uh the housing authority, and then a handful of other um of other committees. Um but beyond
that other elected officials um may may be governed by statute but are not necessarily directly uh addressed in the charter. And then similarly with appointed officials while there is a a different section of the charter that uh gives in most instances the select board
the authority to uh to appoint individuals to to certain positions um multiple member bodies as well as other appointments. um it doesn't get into great detail regarding the authority of those individuals or the authority of those multiple member bodies other than
referring to mass general laws. So it may be that it's not as uh complicated a task to uh affect a reorganization plan without running a foul of the of the charter provisions. It just depends upon what you're attempting to reorganize and
whether um those officials, departments, uh bodies are are referenced in and given a specific charge within the charter. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um did did the select board have any other
any questions regarding >> well I guess then with regards to that if we can just take the example of say a department of public works right >> where right now we have parks and cemeteries highway facilities whatever else we decided and we wanted
to put them under one organizational structure right um in those circumstances I believe and correct me if I'm wrong you know the parks and recck commission is still has those people with them. It's just the organizational structure itself. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> So in that case, and Jane, you might be
able to answer this better even um what processes do we need to make sure we follow for the sake of unions and labor etc. I guess is a question I have >> and budgets. How would that be done?
>> Well, yeah. Is is there any steps we have to make sure that we follow during that process? because obviously it would have to be presented to the town that reorganization >> at a town meeting, >> right? So I guess part of that question is would the budget be structured
assuming that it was combined or um >> I mean I I would think that we would have to the the goal would be to get it approved before at a special town meeting. Correct. Um would it is it just any town meeting that we we we would put
forth this warrant article, Adam? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So just a hypothetical, Jane, assuming that you got some reorganization approved in January, right? >> To just put some groups together
that then could go into budget season. Correct. >> Right. So, I guess if you're looking to combine positions into one um department to make it more efficient and to maybe
have um personnel fill in in other roles um when necessary. Um, I think that we'd have to look at what tasks each position might be performing under this new department
and um, we may be a we may need to negotiate over changes in job descriptions and um, what the what the wage rates are based on because they might be taking on new responsibilities. So, I think it would depend on on how
it's configured. Um, but we can certainly work with Nelson over the coming weeks and um look at some of these details and maybe come back to the board with um with some ideas for a plan
>> and we could we could negotiate that if it had been approved by the town prior to the budget being completed. Correct. >> Right. If the if a consolidation is approved, um then we'd need to budget
over then we'd need to negotiate over um any potential job description changes that would be that would be necessary. >> Well, we know we're going to have to do something because 27 is going to be
worse than 26 and we won't be able to afford some of the positions that we have now. So this is the way to do it. Make sure we do all the right processes. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Any other questions from the board? >> Thank you, Jane. Thank you, Adam. We appreciate it. >> Okay. Have a good night. Thank you. >> Okay. So going back to
4.4, can we do the legal council policy? Sure. So, um, do we have a time that there was Okay, there was the 18 and then there was 19
policy 1 2019 replaces policy 4 2018. >> Yeah. Yes. And I'm thinking we need to look at things and go back. And there was another one that signed. Did you ever sign a sign? >> I never did. No. >> Okay.
>> No. So, it might not ever have been. >> So, we just have a 2019 one. This >> We have a 2019 one. I think we need to edit it and go back to the 2000 something more like the 2018 one only
because we no longer paragraph one isn't true anymore. Um and uh in the 19 >> correct? >> Yeah. It says um an effort to provide broader legal access to services the exception of labor and litigation
are covered under a monthly retainer covers telephone and email communication with council monthly office hours and occasional tenants. >> So that's not >> Yeah. I I think I think that the 2018 one, >> okay, >> is um that we should look at that, make
updates to it and discuss it at our next meeting. And if we each do that and put each of ours in SharePoint and um share it at our next meeting. >> Okay. I thought that's what we did, but >> we we did except that it the changes to
it don't take into account the um the change to payment structure. Oh, >> that we just voted at the last meeting. >> Can we make sure we're all working off the same root document? So this this one here that was the 4
2018 4 2018 the one that was signed by >> policy number 4 2018 replace policy 1705. Is that the one you're talking to? It says right on top. >> Yes. >> Okay. I think we need to go back and
consider that and um update the um it's the 2019 one um update 2019 bringing that back. In other words, I think that for use of legal counsel, a board has to vote to
allow it, fill out a form, get the approval from Nelson because we won't have enough funds in the legal counsel bucket >> if we do things otherwise because everything is charged at this point. So,
there has to be a vote from the board or committee. Um, and for access, it can't just be a CC on an email anymore. That can't work. Or if someone does CC Adam,
he shouldn't act on it until an approval form comes in with a vote. And um, and we need to look at the approval form because the date of that vote needs to be on there. Um, and so it becomes it it
goes back to the way it was a long time ago. >> Okay. Could we have um Okay. Well, I'm >> with Can we do this for our next meeting? >> Yes, that's what I think we should do and and look at it and think about how it's going to work with the new fee
structure because we don't have office hours anymore >> and have Sabrina type up our recommendations within it and then discuss that. We could do that >> because one of the things I think that's going to happen though is it'll be virtual only.
No travel time unless it's an emergency or you know needs to be in here and that was added to um >> yeah um so yeah things like that need to >> um be done but any reference to office
hours or anybody can go in and talk to legal counsel that doesn't work anymore. So, okay. All right. So, that's to be on our November 5th meeting. >> So, are we um giving our changes to
Sabrina each of us? >> I think is that okay with you? >> All right. 4.5 financial team creation and report on budget process. Nelson
Um, let me see here. So, >> so I met with um the uh couple members of the finance committee recently to see if there was any uh changes that they wanted to make.
Well, they they requested a meeting to see if um what changes can be made with the upcoming budget cycle. And one of the things we we were kind of um focused on was some of the the budget um sheets
that the departments were using. Um you know, everyone is using the same sheet, but you know, I guess there's probably could be some room for improvement. So, I think the finance committee we're going to meet separately and come up with some suggestions of um how to
improve or tweak that um budget sheet and and then we would um afterwards meet discuss what those changes would look like and then if everything looks good, I will incorporate that into the upcoming budget process. Um so everyone
is consistently working off of the same you know documents and then when they submit it back to me um and the select board you know they would all be again cons consistent as well. >> Comments I think it's not just working
off the same forms because they were working off the same forms. It's using the lines in whatever form is chosen consistently. some of the notes. I think the notes was a big part of things and how some departments describe things and some don't.
>> Correct. Yeah. I mean, it's the use of those forms. >> Yeah. Consistent use. >> Consistent use. And I think that having an example and going over it in an apartment head meeting might be, >> you know, soon. I mean, as soon I'm
hoping that this is all going to be resolved in November. Um so that when you go forward with the budget message >> and these forms whatever form they're in there's an example that is presented to
the department heads so they are using it consistently >> because that was to me the problem. >> Yep. And uh I will certainly um once I receive them I will do a tighter quality control if something doesn't look sort of to the standards that we're
expecting. I will certainly push back to the department heads that you know it needs to be revised or just cleaned up a little bit so that you know it's in a cleaner more presentable fashion that anyone can sort of pick it up and you know um understand it very clearly and
there are a couple examples that are very good that um it's very clear and concise and you know I can certainly provide those examples to the department heads that you know this is sort of the model budget submitt that um all department heads should, you know,
strive to, you know, um get to. >> So, we'll have that example for November 5th. >> Uh yeah. >> Yep. I can I I have a couple of really great examples that um that I can certainly provide. >> Okay. We can review them.
>> Y >> um and the financial team creation. Um so I think we had mentioned um the town accountant, the treasure collector and the um assessors. You
know, I've um separately have had different conversations with them about what the upcoming year is going to look like. Um I've been gathering information. So now it's just a matter of getting everyone together um hearing what they have to say and seeing if
there's any additional ideas or concerns to bounce off of each other. You know, everyone brings a little bit of a different piece to the budget process. You know, Vicki, um you know, the assessor side, you know, there excuse me, there's the new growth
expectations. There's the overlay as well um from Melissa. Um there's the, you know, what the debt schedule is going to look like. Um the um the information from the Middle Sex County, the retirement board, and for the town,
it's um you know, what we expect the local receipts to come in that for next year. So, everyone brings a little piece of, you know, the budget process, but nonetheless, it's it's all very crucial pieces that um you know, the more
feedback and um information we get, I think we can um you know, come up with a you know, pretty solid budget with their input. So, are you thinking that they're going to give a report say in December for the
budget process? I to respect. >> I think once I get everyone in in sort of um in the same room and everyone presents their information, I can distill all that in a memo of some sort to the select board. Just sort of
highlighting what um what they're expecting from their perspective points of view, you know, um in terms of how the budget's going to look like for next year. >> Questions from the board. Um, so I I would like to see the um the projections
and I would like to have Okay, my understanding is in November the school um districts are to pres present their anticipated budgets to us. There's a budget summit >> at the end of November. I
>> that's not >> I'm not sure November if they are in a place to >> that we have a meeting on it. >> Um >> no it's not until >> I I believe you're right that there is
something in the budget process that alludes to that but I'm not sure realistically if November >> I don't think it's I think they're holding their budget summit later. I I they definitely are. Um >> because we had those four meetings, right, Nelson? There's one in November.
We had one in October. There's >> there's one next week, >> September, October. No, it's next week and there's another one in December and in January. I can find out from the the superintendent's office um when you know
anyone is realist realistically able to present any sort of uh projections you know for a budget on the school side but I feel like November is probably unrealistic you know it's so early in the school year that
>> at least you'll have an idea from our our side how everything else [Music] Um, yeah, correct. Um, but I I can ask the school if uh if November they'll have any preliminary budget numbers.
>> Okay. So, you the finance um All right. Town of Townsson's budget process begins in early to midfall when the town's financial staff updates the town's five-year financial forecast. At the same time, the town administrator and
designator staff collect and analyze other data that may impact the town. This is presented to the board of selectmen, the finance committee, and the school committee at a financial summit in early November. And I know the first couple of years that I was a
selectman, we did have that. And so the finance team, which is what you're talking about, the assessor, the um accountant, the treasurer, >> presented that to us at a meeting.
I would like to know when that's going to happen in November. And then you take that information and the school committee should be there as well, our school, you know, representatives for towns and at least to take that back to
the school committee so we know what we're able to do for the next fiscal year financially. >> Right. Well, certainly um the the the Tritown letter um to um >> yeah, >> the superintendent's office kind of
spelled out um what what we can all afford financially, the three towns. Anything above and beyond that, you know, I I think the the letter spelled out it's either a combination of cuts or overrides to come over a balanced
budget. So, um we can certainly, you know, um present the information, um in a different format to the the school committee. Um but I certainly think, um the letter that we we sent to Brad
Morgan's office clearly, um you know, stated our what we couldn't afford financially. >> I think that our school committee members need to be with us in the process. They need to understand where we're coming from as much as we need to
understand where they're coming from. And I think that's been missing the past couple of years. And I I would really like our school committee members to be there when the financial team presents to us and the fincom the financial
forecast for the next fiscal year. >> Okay. Um, I think we would we could be ready for the the second select board meeting in November. I think November November 5th is quickly approaching. >> Yeah, the second November is fine.
Doesn't have to be the first one. >> So, I think that we're scheduled to meet on the 19th. >> 19th. >> Yep. So, that's that's the date. Um,
>> we did. Never mind. Okay. [Music] >> Oh, Callie had a question. >> Sure. >> So, projection preliminary at this point.
>> Keep it down, please. >> I can't hear you. So if he's to have those projection second meeting in November, does this mean and I don't know what the deadline was already set for the uh department has to present their budget?
>> Um January, >> this is just projections of where the town will be at >> what we can afford. >> Gotcha. Okay. ask questions for clarification. >> Sure. >> Your next meeting's on a Thursday. >> Wednesday.
>> Wednesday. >> Next two meetings are >> and the 19th. They're on Wednesdays in November. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yep. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Okay. Anything else on uh
4.5? We'll be good for now. Is the date going to be discussed on the 19th of November? >> So on the 19th after that we can provide any input for the budget message which
Nelson will present to the department heads >> by the end of December. >> So typically that memo that's sent out to the department it's uh very late November early December.
>> Okay. So early December >> falls into place >> so we can vote on the budget message our first meeting in December >> which is December second >> and then get it out to the >> to the departments. >> Correct. >> And then they come back with their
budgets by the beginning of January. >> Correct. And I guess somewhere wrapped up in that whole thing just to add confusion is if we're trying to >> Well, I think that this is my opinion that we can still they can still go >> because everything's going to be that
things are going to come together. So they do their budgets, we'll have a town meeting. >> Yeah. Hopefully we have a a rapport >> by um together during this same process
that we can present at a town meeting which we anticipate to be January. Correct. >> Um that would be my goal. Yes. >> Okay. >> January 10 meeting And so I think that going through the
process of developing that >> and then if it were to vote if they could it would >> work out together at that point. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm being mindful because we have the 7 o'clock public hearing.
So I I just have one more question. Will the forms be ready for the budget process? >> You should be >> uh that would be my that would be my goal because it wouldn't make any because um
>> with the letter that >> with the letter that goes out I attach I attach the form. So, so in theory it it would need to be ready by then and you know it certainly there should be enough time to make any tweaks to the forms. Um
you know once we can all agree on what that might be. >> Okay. And I'm sure the consistency of the use time >> Yeah. >> helpful to all. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Right.
4.7 select board goals fiscal 26 including budgeting software Nelson. >> Um let me see um so I have updated the the goals um for myself for the next for
this upcoming year. Um >> that wasn't in SharePoint was it? Is it the word or the PDF? >> The word document. >> Yep. I did not see today. >> It's been in there since the weekend, but maybe you guys can >> I have it here.
>> Take a look at it. >> I think I printed the PDF which was mine. It wasn't. >> And just so you know, we kind of skipped over 4.6, but we we should go back to it later. It is a much >> I thought that might be a little longer
than this. Yeah, correct. Yep. So, I think we should do it after uh the public hearing is over. >> Where are we on the um budgeting software? Um I I had given I've gotten a presentation
from um the uh CLAG gov the the budgeting software. Um >> is that the only one that you got that you were looking at? >> Um that was really the only one I I
considered looking at. Um, clear gov is the municipal leader in budgeting software. Um, I know, um, Pepper uses it, multiple communities end up using it. Um,
I did receive a quote, you know, depending on when we want it to be implemented. Um, certainly the issue is cost and timing. Um, we certainly don't have any free cash at the moment to um
contemplate. >> What was it cost? >> Um, >> like 30, right? >> Um, let me just double check. >> I thought they did a um, you know, like
a threemon setup kind of thing and then after that it was monthly, something like that to get you going. I don't know. Yeah, there is a setup fee because they kind of need to populate all the modules with um town's information. Let
me just [Music] So yeah, there was a onetime fee about $3,200 and then there is a um subscription a halfyear subscription. Now, this is assuming January 1st start
date um six month fee of um $7,900 and then um starting on July 1st would be our first um annual subscription which is just under $16,000. So, it's it's it's um not an
insignificant um it's a you know not an insignificant amount of money but I think it would have um a lot of benefit because um
you know the software is pretty robust. Um it's online based, you know, so anyone can sort of look at the the town budget and you know um the the detail that goes behind it. >> I think that was part of it. Everybody looking at the same thing. >> Yep.
>> Not different programs and different ways to interpret. >> Yep. Right. And you know there's um you know it's pretty robust because you can um make certain assumptions whether it's about personnel cost or um expenses
and then it will you know um project it out for you. Not that we couldn't do that inhouse with um something like as simple as an Excel spreadsheet but again >> it hasn't been working very well. um you know it has its you know downfalls um
but you know clear gov you know it's a pretty um easy to use interface um you know um you can include also capital budgeting as well you know which kind of feeds into the operating budget when we considered the
debt service payments so I I see the benefit in it but again it's it's not a um you know it's not exactly inexpensive and it would be an ongoing expense year after year
but >> I think it would be well worth it. Do we need a motion to go forward cleared up? >> Well, we need I mean it's funded though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, that's that's the problem and we won't be able to do that until >> free cash. >> Free cash and then at a you know some
sort of town meeting. Um what I can probably have um clear gov do is maybe do a quick presentation for the board um sometime in >> I think we should include fincom with that some um >> if they could do November when we do the
forecast meeting if they could come >> great >> and uh present them because we would have everybody on the financial team there. So make sure that um the treasurer and the accountant and the assessors can be um there
>> and uh final and we could take a look at it then. I mean, that's one of the goals. And that may cost some money, but rather than having all the free cash go, we could have this and be consistent with uh something going forward
that's going to make it easier financially on everybody. >> I agree. >> Uh so we don't need a motion at this point. >> Okay. >> But um expect that to be at that meeting. >> Yep. I will um make the necessary
arrangements to get everyone um hopefully there on that particular night. Um so I'll stop. >> You don't have to be a joint meeting. >> Excuse me. >> There'll be a joint meeting. >> Uh yeah, I I think so. Yeah. >> We're going to have a joint meeting on
the 19th. >> On the 19th and it'll be with the financial team and clear gov. purchased a couple years ago. >> That was clear go, but it was through a grant
>> that we got from the state. >> Yeah. So, >> from what I understand, it was during a bunch of turnover. >> I was going to say, why did it get st? >> No, it wasn't. >> No, it just never. >> It's just that for whatever reason, they opted not to go to continue with it. I
have no idea why. There Eric was our town administrator. He's the one that wrote the grant and got it. Um, when my term ended, my understanding was that there was going to be training for it. I know I had a log into it as did many
other people. I logged into it and played with it. >> Yeah. And for whatever reason, when I I mean, I didn't follow that. It wasn't I was no longer a selectman when I came back in this term. I fully thought it
would be there and operational for the past, you know, two fiscal year cycles and it wasn't. So, I don't know what happened. >> I can't tell you. Can Do you know, Jayen? >> I don't know. >> Um I I have no idea what happened.
>> I wasn't here either, so I I can't It's all speculation. >> Wasn't that Wasn't it brought up during the um budgeting process? So, we had already done >> we had already done the budgeting, but we were going to we were kind of just
letting it sit and and finish the budget the way we were doing it for that fiscal year and then start the training right after the and it just never got picked back up. I have no I have no idea why.
>> And it it lapsed and that was that. And um and here we are, same place. >> So um >> and unfortunately that grant um that we originally got the software with >> um the the state stopped doing that
>> part of the grant >> at the moment. It's a the community compact grant. So, so now we're left to contemplate um paying for it on our own to you know acquire the software again and then you know continue with it you know
um as part >> is it the same software I mean >> it is yeah but certainly um the modules do get updated by the software company year over year um they add new capabilities to it so and I think the presentation that we would have on
November 19th I think everyone can kind of see what what's it's capable now and you know what it can do. >> Well, maybe you can save some money if they've already done some preliminary work here. >> Um maybe um there's still like I said a
setup fee which um is um about $3,200. So it's it's just the get all the data ported over Okay. >> Are we going back to the um goals?
>> We're going back to the public hearing. >> We can go back to it after the public hearing. It's 7 o'clock now. >> I can bring us back to the goals after it. Thank you. Okay. >> I don't see Bill Solomon yet. So,
>> all I know is I've been given a script. >> Yeah. And uh I think he he's probably the one that start things off. Um [Music] >> is Mr. Solomon on? Attorney Solomon.
Do we have a Do you need something to write on? pass that along with >> um if Bill is running a little bit late, we can certainly either continue the goals discussion or
um talk about something else. >> Goals. >> So even though this is scheduled for seven, I can do it later. Yeah, you can start later, but you can't start earlier than what was published. >> Okay. As long as I'm legal. >> Yep.
>> There's nothing. >> All right. Veronica, do you want to continue on the go, please? >> Sure. Um the one thing I would move after our discussion with town council is we had had um the March town meeting article, I
would move that to January. >> Yeah. under DPW. >> Yeah, I was thinking that. >> Mhm. Okay. Yep. >> Because it would be good to have that in place. It will affect all >> because if we have to do any negotiations that gives us we've already
got the vote so we can do the negotiations, >> right? >> And that's part of the budget cycle then. >> Okay. I'll put that in January now. >> Okay. Thanks. >> For DPW, >> correct? I had already put that written for January.
Okay. Um, anything else on the goals for utilization? Um, yeah, I think um, you know, um, I've had, um, an an initial meeting with, um, four of
the communities on Monday. um Ashple Gr and Dun. We're talking about potential regionalization of uh fire and EMS. We're going to try to um have Littleton and Air possibly be part of
the mix, too. Um you know, in situations like this when you have, you know, multiple um parties, invariably some drop off. So, you know, we might have seven now, but you know, when it's all said and done, you you might only be
left with three or four. And then >> So, you think we're going to add Aaron and Shirley? >> Air and Little >> Littleton. >> Yep. Um and then once we sort of have initial buyin from, you know, uh the the
town administrators, um we'll invite all the subject matter experts to the table. meaning, you know, the fire chiefs, you know, are typically in charge of fire and EMS >> and I've asked for the swordman to be involved,
>> at least the chair. >> So, and then um you know, we'll have a couple early meetings and then it's really up to the subject matter experts to hammer out the details to see if we can make this work, what it's going to look like.
>> Um I don't know if I can give you the contact information. I had talked to somebody with Franklin Regionalization. I think I brought up to you. Franklin County does a huge regionalization. >> They do it for a lot of different services and they had been more than happy to come and talk about how they do
stuff because they've saved a ton of money over the past two decades just by >> town. >> Oh, it's different towns join the Franklin Regional. I forget what it's called. Franklin Regional. Don't quote me on it. Anybody can look it up. But um so they may do like accounting services
together. They may you know or they do all like certain aspects of RMS like if I'm not sure but you know you can do your all your ambulance billing together those types of things all so you have those authorities in all the towns like training is a big thing they they offer
training for so they don't do all town services but towns opt in for certain services. I had told Nelson that the um conference I attended in May was that was one of the things they discussed and there was
someone there from the Cullen Center >> who will work with towns as a consultant and I don't know if you contacted them to find out what services were available. >> Um I didn't um I meant to bring it up at the meeting yesterday but I did end up
talking to the um um petrol TA about it. um he's going to contact ELS to see if there's any um funding available um to uh do, you know,
studies of this nature. >> That would be good. >> Um so, you know, um I I'll report back once I find out more. >> I I just think having a consultant or somewhere look at it and talk about what other places have done would be helpful.
I just talked to Bill on the phone. He's at a remote location. Just finished the meeting, but they've got lousy internet. So, he's traveling to a location that he can then log in. He figures another five minutes or so. >> Okay, we'll continue. We've got stuff.
Thank you >> for the update. Okay. So, are we good with um the goals for tonight? One of the things I I'll mention, I've
asked for and hopefully the select board is okay with this to change the agenda to have new business and old business. And anything that is not finished from the business of this meeting will go to old business
for every future meeting so that the topic is there and we don't forget it. >> So under meeting business we're going to have old business and new business. >> Yeah. But new business I think first and then you address old business. >> Okay.
>> Because once it's finished it would be old business. I think new and old is a standard and >> new and old is standard and in fact >> took care of that today. >> Yeah, that's what the library trustes always need.
>> It's very common in organizational one one thing I also frequently see opinion for those is the continuing items. If there's if there is a more ongoing item that's not quite new or old, it's just an ongoing discussion. I I often will >> ongoing and continuing.
>> We could have a lot of those. >> So, >> but it does give you the space to address it at any meeting, which is nice. I know like the library, we always had the previous budget >> as a manable business. So, if anything came up about it, you could address it at that meeting. >> Okay. >> Or you could just pass over if you
didn't need to. >> Exactly. But it's there. >> Okay. So, you good with that? >> Um Oh, yeah. I'm good with that. Uh what we need then is to um
put this timeline into a article into a um document. So, Cali, this would be you that we use for review. And um by contract, we are to be setting
goals for um the town administrator based on the things that we identified, which we did. >> And then they need to be measurable, >> which these deliverables should give us.
And um if Cali can work up a um review document that we can agree on and Nelson has to agree on it as do all of us. >> Okay.
>> So I would say take what's there. >> And we can put that on the next agenda. Okay. >> I don't know if that's considered new business or old business. Probably new >> with the with the uh deliverables as old. I don't know.
>> Okay. Why don't you make a note on that for me figure out where to put it or how to put it next month. Um I'm making notes like November 5th, November 19th kind of thing as I go along. So I'm sure we're all going to give her our notes.
Um >> I think November 5th would be good. >> Okay. Well, the agenda will look different to Cali >> and Oh, as far as the goals >> as as far as a review document goes.
>> Review document. Okay. >> Got that done. >> And then we can um review it, see if we need to add an update for November and then be done with that. that piece of it. Did >> you say the fifth or the 19th? >> Fifth.
>> Okay, got it. Um, so what we haven't done and let me know if you think we can do this until the attorney gets here 4.6 on the uh on the budget.
>> Um, let's wait. I I rather not be interrupted for that. I want to just >> It's going to take longer for So maybe 4.11. >> Oh yeah, 4.11. Is there a motion? >> There will be.
Um I Val Gooditch move to approve the letter of support as read into record >> and Veronica second. Let me read it into record please. One moment. Sorry. Apologize for the delay. It's okay. We
we all seem to be busy here. Um this is town of select board 272 Main Street Towns and Mass 0469 October 21st 2025 Rise Massachusetts/ Mosaic Opioid Recovery Partnership Care of
Massachusetts Department of Public Health Bureau of Substance Addiction Services. Dear Mosaic Review Committee, on behalf of the Towns and Select Board, we are pleased to express our support for the Mosaic Opioid Recovery Partnership and our intent to participate in its
municipal grant program. This initiative aligns with Townsen's commitment to community health prevention, harm reduction, and recovery support. Like many small towns, Towns and continues to experience the impacts of the opioid crisis. Mosaic's focus on local capacity building, equity, and evidence-based
response provides a meaningful opportunity to strengthen our community's ability to prevent overdose and expand access to treatment and recovery resources. Townsen anticipates using Mosaic resources to support outreach, Nlloxxone, Narcan, distribution and
training, and enhanced referral pathways to recovery services. We also value Mosaic's technical assistance and peer learning network, which will help ensure our efforts are sustainable and effective. Thank you for consideration and for your continued partnership in
advancing community health. Sincerely, all of us. Do we need to amend that to say to sign out a session? >> We don't have to sign out. >> Is it here? >> Is it right here? >> Oh, if you have it, then we'll sign.
>> Okay. So, there was a motion and a second and it was read. >> Any further discussion? >> No. >> Hearing none. Roll call. >> Veronica, I shipper cast the public.
Okay, I'll go into He's not here yet. I'll go into um 4.12, which is the BBCC. Um we did meet today. Um it was a much shorter meeting than
what we had planned because we ended up with um having a board earlier today. Um Harrison's done a great job with I don't have those
or >> um you set aside to >> I want to thank Calie. >> Yeah, we reviewed the um the onboarding
documents. Wow. Um and as well as uh for the volunteer board committee member as well as the onboarding for project volunteer which is non-elected and um non-compensated
which I thought was interesting. We actually went through every page of these and it was really good. We had a couple of comments that um I think um Harrison will go over with you, but um we definitely um like these would like
to have these signed for and as far as the board goes and um select board, you will get copies of these as well. uh once we have the the uh >> once finalized >> once finalized because we did make some
changes today and Harrison will have those ready and he'll probably review them with you as well and also I think our last comment was that we'd like to see the policy handbook >> uh be one of the documents that are signed for as well.
>> So this is awesome. We know that you put a lot of work into this and I feel like it's um a great asset for the town that you've done that. Thank you. Um so the board was all excited about that
and uh our minutes are going to be reviewed at the next meeting. We also got feedback from at least I think seven of the boards for um what they would like
to see uh given to people when they come on board. One of them will be a list of links that each one of the boards and commissions will have for them to go to training. Conservation is a number of them. uh the assessors came up with well
you have to take a 40-hour class to be an assessor and be certified as one which is not known to everybody who you know goes on. So um it's being worked on what I'm going to say we're not done but it's being worked on. What I don't have for you today
because of a little bit of miscommunication I guess is the backside of the volunteer form. Um but we will have that done at the next meeting so that the new volunteer uh reappointment
form will be ready and we meet next uh Friday 31st. >> So I guess my question is what is the end game here? What what do we expect to see in the end? Are there is the board policy handbook being um updated?
uh is the um >> we didn't go through that document yet. We did go through >> I'm not I'm not rushing you. I'm just wondering what what should we see in the end? >> Hopefully everything updated. That's that's the goal I think
>> and more usable and more informative. >> I think there was like when I came on one of my concerns was is like I had been on boards for years and never received twothirds of the documents. Right. >> Right. And so I think I think the main goal is informing this was everybody who
volunteers or is elected to board >> else gets the same information to start >> and where will it be written down what that information is. >> There's a sheet you have to shine. >> Yeah. There's a signature for mostly everything. >> Okay. So that that you worked on today
is what the end product is. >> No, not yet. >> That's what we have right now. >> That's what we have right now. But that >> okay >> like a packet you you join a board receive a packet of information with everything you need and you have to sign that you've received
>> okay all right >> okay to so to one of the concerns >> because I was account like accountability who's going to monitor >> yes I I had sent Harrison because >> I want to know who checks ethics I thought it was Kathy the town clerk
because Kathy always said you need to take this >> you know or yours has run out. So, I assumed that she was the one monitoring it for all the boards and committees. Um, is that the case? Is it town clerk
that monitors that or is it human resources? Who gets the information that says it's time to update? So, if I may, I'll be careful as to not create new BBCC deliberations, but in my switching hats as town clerk, um the
generally speaking, the the master general laws for ethics doesn't require that there's an ongoing monitoring or enforcement on the part of the town. The requirement is that of the individual public employee as defined by their particular law. There's been some
helpful nudging over the years and and I I have some strategies that were discussed that will continue to helpfully nudge. Um but they're all courtesy notices. There's no enforcement like active monitoring there. There are some automated emails that we can set to
send. There's also going to be a letter sent to those who do not regularly check emails and a general reminder to everyone in town that hey, this is a requirement that is every two years and every year for an acknowledgement. It's not just a one and done. So there there will be communication done from the
clerk's office as courtesy notices. Um but the the real enforcement the with the new training system the ethics commission can see and they could ask the town please provide a list of every employee or boarding committee member and they could go through the list and compare. >> But they aren't the ones that send you
the reminder. Those come from even when I worked for the mount, I would get a reminder that said you need to take the ethics test >> that I needed to take it. >> Yeah. So, this new system does that and
it's from the state ethics commission's portal that we're sending. >> So, it goes to you. It doesn't go to >> No, it goes directly to you >> to the individual to the individual that you signed up account. >> That's good. That's better actually. Yes. >> You know, a middle person where it can
get lost. So it goes directly to the individual assuming they have an account. >> Yes. Not everyone has an account. >> There there's a significant number of municipal employees as their do not even have an account let alone out of date.
>> Can you take the ethics ethics exam without having an account? you know, you're to sign up and have that account and that's how the certificates like folks don't have to print and send it to the clerk anymore. It's automatically in that system. Um the way the certificate
is generated is on file. >> Do do you think it would be possible to do a one off at the start? These are all the people. Here's everyone's status. >> That that is the intent within the next couple weeks. That notice that's going to go out is going to be based.
It's going to go to every every employee and board the committee member. Um, you know, please check your status. Call the clerk's office. We'll check. We'll look you up. Try logging in. If you're having a hard time, maybe you don't have an account, we can help or we can reset your password. >> Yeah. >> And do those things. So, that'll be kind
of an ethics training drive, so to speak. >> And we're working on getting set up with a kiosk that people can come if they're not so computer literate. We can have it ready to go for them. um that will will do basically all of
the setup and all they need to do is watch the the videos that go with it and we can take kind of the technology aspect out of it and make it as easy as possible. >> Okay, >> we'll work on on it and we'll keep going until everything we feel needs to be
done is done. >> Okay, thank you. Yeah, >> next meeting is the 31st and hopefully on the 5th we'll have final and a couple of things there. >> Oh, attorney Solomon. >> Hello. I apologize. I was at a hearing.
We had a license signing in a school and there's no uh internet access for let my phone. So, thank you for waiting. >> Okay. So, I'm going to open the public hearing right now. Okay, >> great.
>> Are you ready? >> Yep. >> Okay. I'm just going to read your script and hopefully I'll be out. >> Yep. Great. Thank you. Town of towns and hearing regarding renewal of cable television license of
Comcast cable communications management LLC. Tuesday, October 21st, 2025, and it is now 7:23 p.m.
I will just I'm not sure if it's on here or not, but that everyone who's here has signed in to the public hearing. This public hearing is regarding the renewal of the cable television license of Comcast Cable Communications
Management LLC, formerly Comcast of Massachusetts 3, Inc. The current Comcast license was issued on November 1st, 2015 through October 31st, 2025.
This hearing is being held in furtherance of the goals of the Federal Cable Act, the Massachusetts Cable Law, Chapter 166A of the General Laws, and the Regulation of the Massachusetts Department of
Teleer Communications and Cable. Public notice of this proceeding was published twice in the Sentinel and Enterprise, which I have copies of here. I will now recognize the town's special
cable counsel attorney Solomon is here with us by video conference. Special counsel William Solomon, please. >> Thank you, uh, Madam Chair. Um, first, it's good to be here. We've been working
hard on the, uh, cable license renewal. uh your uh town administrator uh Nelson's been a integral part of the planning, the ascertainment and the negotiations and of course uh Dave who
is here uh chair of the cable advisory committee has been fully involved. Uh so I'll just briefly say that um with with respect to the major issues the uh uh we're down to uh the quest the
question of PEG capital public education government community television capital dollars. We've had uh some discussions with Patrick Shurns the Comcast uh uh government affairs manager who's handling this matter. Uh, and we've been
speaking in the last few days to try to get to a an agreement. We're going to I'm speaking again with your team tomorrow and I'll be speaking to Mr. Shurns. So, I hope uh that um uh by the end of the week or the beginning of next week, we'll have an
agreement on the capital dollars. From there I'll be drafting the license uh passing it uh by the your team the committee and then um providing it to Pats to finalize with Comcast. So I
think that process has worked well. A critical part of that uh and you heard from you might have heard from Dave is the uh capital plan where a uh very talented outside consultant came in working with Dave uh input by Nelson uh
and uh that plan has served us well in with respect to the negotiations on dollars. Uh so that's where the the matter stands today. today is to hear from the public and most importantly to to check off some of the boxes that are
required to give the public an opportunity to be uh to hear and to be heard if they if they if they'd like uh so that we can proceed ahead. And my goal is that uh and a full expectation is we'll have a license agreed upon and
then ready for a board vote uh before the end of the year. Uh, and that's that's I think we're in good good path to do that. Uh, I provided a a summary of the basic license terms. Uh, and I'd be happy to answer any questions with
respect to those terms or if you'd like I could go briefly go through what those are. >> Um, yeah, why don't you go through the terms that you haveed? >> Thank you. Um, well, the license would be a a 10-year license, which is the
maximum allowed by by state law. And I I firmly believe it's in the town's interest to have a longer license. Uh, the the the competitive uh environment, the legal environment will not get any better than than it is now. And so, now
is an excellent time. As I said when I came on, I'm very pleased that your license is up up now because it's a good time to renew. So 10 years makes sense. Sort of like a long-term mortgage makes sense for most people. Uh the cable
subscribers of Comcast has at the end of last year was 1,85. 1,85 uh down from 1,970 the year before. 2,187. So your loss of subscribers is less than
than many communities loss of cable subscribers because as you know this only relates to the cable portion of the service that Comcast provides. Uh at by the same at the same time while the the revenues have not gone down uh uh in the
same manner that the subscriber number has which is good. The operating support uh we we've negotiated would be 5% of the gross revenues. That's the support for um a TAM and 5% uh in the current
license and the maximum allowed under current law. the peg capital as I discussed uh and I I the uh last license had $30,000 peg capital and had $130,000
uh payment toward the moving of the studio. Uh we have uh said had good negotiations with Comcast uh and I hope to have that number completed as I said by the beginning of next week. uh it the
form of it it may be on capital paid on a per subscriber basis quarterly or it might be based on a gross revenue formula and that we're discussing internally further and with Comcast uh in addition to that is PEG access cable
casting cable casting from local origination points in your current license uh those those locations are the town hall the spolding elementary school, the uh Squanakook Elementary School, the
Hawthon Brook Middle School, and your regional high school. Those are the license requirements uh that the you go live from the town hall. uh some of the other locations uh
are required and uh they're not they're not all working at the present time but would would be required in the license going forward unless there was a uh negotiation uh point which allowed Comcast to
provide other dollars in lie thereof. uh in your current license, the town had 24 months to uh request that Comcast build out to your buildings at Dudley Road. Uh that's the library, as you know, the meeting room and the council
on aging. Uh that was not required at the time uh because there was a focus on other issues. But go going forward and by the way that extension under the license would be paid for by by the town
or the access corp. Uh so going forward uh the license draft will provide that either Comcast will will connect and really the only connection as Dave uh Finella points out needed is to the
meeting room the other other two buildings there or rooms can be connected internally by the town or TCAM. So that Comcast would would under our draft license be required uh to uh to bring out the
fiber to that location so that cable cable could be uh sent uh to the uh to the town hall in the head end. or alternatively uh the license draft will say that the town or the access
corporation has the right to build its own connection according to Comcast standards that sometimes is the better option for a number of reasons. So in some uh the uh the light I think the license draft
uh will in some respects write itself because I think I've reached an equilibrium on license draft with misassurance of Comcast and with Comcast. So the last major issue we have is the pay capital and I think we have
to uh make sure that everyone's on the same page on the local originations. Uh, with that said, I'd be happy to answer any questions. I do think when we get done with this, we're going to have a very strong license uh, at a challenging time that'll serve the town well for the
next 10 years, subject to the fact that, uh, we can't control whether people uh, maintain cable or add on to cable. I think cable may be stronger than people think it might be, but but that's what that's outside of a control of his
license puts us in position to be in the best position possible to uh to go forward as I see it. >> Okay. Thank you, Attorney Solomon. I'd like to um ask Jay Fiol as the chair of the cable advisory committee have any
comments? Uh, as Bill pointed out, the uh the cable committee, we haven't done a lot now. We did all of the work that we we were required to do upfront in order to get Bill to the point he's at now with
his discussions with Comcast. Uh, so if you look, you haven't seen us uh meet in months now, but we met >> seven committee. >> What's that? I know I'm on the committee, >> but I'm treating you with your select
person hat on, not the table committee, but so it doesn't look like we've done a lot lately, but we did a front end job of everything that we needed to get done, the origination points Bill was talking about, which basically means
Comcast installing necessary equipment so we can plug cameras and things in at the meeting rooms over near the senior center in the library separate from their infrastructure they already have. So, it wouldn't touch, overlap, or be
part of the town's fiber system right now. It'd be totally separate from them. Uh we've been, like Bill pointed out, him and I have been talking almost on a daily basis for the past couple of weeks
right now, just trying to make sure we've got all our ducks in a row. He then turns around and talks with uh the Comcast people. So, it's like a pingpong match. It keeps going back and forth. Things get dropped, things get added,
etc. Um I think Do you want me to discuss the uh capital plan part of this bill? >> Sure. That you that that briefly? Yes, that'd be great. >> That that was really the major work that
the that you and the committee have done. So, yeah, it's a brief overview. >> Um, I don't know if everybody's got a copy of the document, but it looks like that. It's a handful of pages and it's just rows and rows and rows of
equipment, cables, switches, etc. We're talking to Comcast about them implementing this for us over a 10-year period. the entire 10-year contract.
It's broken up into chunks by year. For instance, my favorite that I'm really pushing to have Comcast do for us up front is to get a mixing system and the necessary equipment. So when we have town meeting, we go down to the high
school. We don't have to hire people to bring up their men and their equipment in order to broadcast out live. So that's what a lot of this entails, plus future replacements of the expensive equipment like the the
casters machine that actually does the broadcasting that's scheduled for like year six or seven to be entirely replaced by the Comcast agreement that we're working on um setting up right now and finalizing.
Uh there's a lot of good equipment in here. A lot of this wasn't in existence during the first contract from 10 plus years ago. So there's a lot of equipment you guys may have seen downstairs in the rooms or
stored in the garage or here and there that are basically fundamentally just um >> surplus or just >> Yeah, surplus. But they're they're almost useless surplus because it's like having a Model T Ford trying to pull a
tractor trailer. Yeah, it's a vehicle, but it's not the right one and it's not powerful enough to do the job it needs. So, functionally, just about everything needs to be replaced over the next 10 years because things get obsolete and
things wear out. And Dave, if I just add because the the Comcast would be providing funding and the access corp would use that funding to uh to purchase that equipment, but but I think based on that Patren had asked specifically for a
capital plan. Uh we generally do it and we did it here and I think it's helped to try to get a a a strong a stronger capital dollar number. One last thing I should mention I I left out in the outline is that Comcast will be providing excuse me a highdefinition channel.
Currently the license provides that the current license that there's two PEG access channels and that's what's run by TCAM. You have the right under the current license for a third channel upon uh upon notice
to uh Comcast. Going forward, Comcast is going to take one of those SD channels, standard definition channels, and transition it into a highdefinition channel. Uh, and what we'll be discussing further and
I've discussed with Mr. insurance is the question of the third channel and the possibility and I've discussed with Dave the possibility of forgoing the third channel and that there's some benefits to a third channel
for sufficient peg capital. So, we'd have to weigh those. That's a possibility. But what's a certainty is we'll have one highdefinition PEG channel. And in addition to that, we'll have a side letter that that gives the
board the right to have Comcast in to discuss the technical and uh financial feasibility and actually doing additional HD channels in place of the standard definition channel. So, that's been a discussion. We've also discussed
the the possibility of two highdefinition channels from Comcast. So that discussion is continuing. Uh we're weighing together with Comcast uh the Peg Capital and the question of the of whether a second HD channel and
the question of whether the town could implement a third PEG channel. Uh and what when we reach some sort of tenative position on that, we'll of course be coming to the back to the board and presenting the the total proposal in
writing and discussing it so you can make your judgment as to um whether to move forward with that agreement. Again, my goal is to have this agreement done, you know, by the end of the year. It'll be likely could be December. Uh but but
but not to go past that and and I'm optimistic that'll occur. >> Our agreement ends on the 31st of October. >> Yeah. And what what what I suggested there is that if we get an ag if we get an agreement with well the license will
continue uh be in effect uh Comcast continue to provide service and they'll continue to be uh obligated to meet the terms that what I've suggested is if we can get this license agreement done you know with within let's say two weeks we
then proceed ahead with a license document and we'd have a license draft uh before you uh in uh in in in toward the end of November. If it turns out that that progress isn't being made,
then I would uh pass through the town administrator uh and yourself and and provide to Comcast a shortterm call it extension. There's reason it's it's not needed. Uh but if if we go past
a certain period, it probably makes sense to do. But for now, my preference is not to do that since the license is in effect. Both parties agree it's in effect. I can get Comcast to agree in writing it's in effect and they'll comply with it. Uh and I rather
focus on that than give Comcast the idea that we're just extending it and not looking to be completed. So um uh we're we'll we're in okay shape legally uh going forward. Uh and if we want to uh further document that we can but the
focus on my part will continue to be and we spent a lot of time in this in the last two weeks is to finalize with with Comcast government affairs representative so we can provide it to the to the board. >> Okay. Uh any questions from this web
board? Could you just clarify what the where the original the origination sites are? >> Yeah. Um, currently you're sitting in one of them. >> Yes. >> The studio downstairs. We can broadcast live out of there, which we do.
>> Okay. >> Uh, the second one is down at 222 Main Street at the uh, TCAM studio there. >> That's the home of channel 8. >> Okay. >> Here's the channel 9. Channel 9 is the government station. >> Okay,
>> that's what we focus on here. The other one is all the stuff like the old movies and TV shows and uh like when people give lectures over at the uh library, the senior center and we film them and put them up. Like there was a woman we
couldn't we couldn't film her that particular night. It was a night of the town meeting, but she was a reenactor. She was Paul Revier's wife and she did a little uh presentation down at the senior center explaining what she was
going through as the wife of Paul Rivere the night of his famous ride the few days after. So that that's primarily what we use channel 8 for. The third one Bill was talking to is traditionally
uh the education channel and that's usually tied in directly with the schools where the schools create their own content and then upload it to us to show on their channel. But we that's a
third channel he was referring to. We got to get that eventually going. I mean, if we don't, we still need to talk to the high school and the middle schools about getting them to provide content, you know, school plays, concerts, etc.
>> So, you can you can uh project from here from all the schools, from your studio, and you're adding the meeting hall. Is that right? Yes, that's what we definitely want to
do. >> Well, not not currently though, >> but that would be in the renewal. >> Currently, as No. >> No. >> Yeah, it's in the current license. Uh, and what's in the only places that that that
have live origination, as I understand it, are the town hall and the studio currently. >> Oh, yeah. and that but the license requires like member the uh those other the three schools and uh our position at
the at the current time is that obligation to have live origination of the schools would continue uh if Comcast you know was interested in getting out of that obligation then
we we're we discuss what what the finan cial benefit to the town and peg access would be uh to allow allow them not to have that same obligation going forward. So those the three schools uh are an
obligation but not currently uh functioning uh likely because of the end use equipment the encoder transmitter rather uh not because there's not fiber. So,
uh, our position is those should continue and if Comcast is interested in what I used to call a a buyout, uh, providing dollars maybe as part of the capital grant, then we'll discuss that
further. Uh, the town does have some ability in the modern day to go live from those locations just using the internet or wireless or you you have some town fiber. So there are some other options but uh but but but
the the last issue we're discussing with with the Comcast representative is the local origination. Uh and we'll tie that in together with the pet capital. Uh and again any any preliminary agreement that's reached will come back for the
board for its approval. But one way or the other, uh, the access corp will be able to cablecast from those those locations. It's really a question of if they're going to do it a lot, then it makes sense to have fiber. If they're
going to cablecast uh periodically, then there are ways to cablecast without fiber. Uh but if the town were to allow Comcast not to have that obligation, then we would expect that there' be commensurate uh benefit
to the pay capital number. >> There's still a lot of things that that are possible to happen. As Bill's pointing out, it's final negotiations and talks with Comcast of what both sides can agree on and then depending on
what that decision is, we can go this way and accomplish what we want or go this other way and accomplish what >> but it is it's it's come to a head and I I hope to have it resolved within within a week or so. >> Okay. Is there anything else? I don't
know if it's if your list is on in the share points. Did you guys get >> Bill, did you provide a copy of the capital list to the town yet or do you want >> you know I I I I be happy to do it. I I did provide it, but I'd be happy to provide it uh uh tonight when I get back
to the office. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would just say I I was in that the capital planning meeting and Danielle or Daniela was great. She was >> Oh, that was >> a lot of that list is bringing us into the future.
>> Okay. So, she knew she knew her stuff. >> Yeah. And by the way, just as a side note, as part of Bill's service that he's providing to us to deal with Comcast, the uh technician, I think she's more than a technician, uh Danielle that prepared this capitalist
for us, she came to us for free as a gratuitity towards us. She works for the AERS company, which is a pretty massive uh technology company that does a lot of
peg access as well as other things. Uh she spent a lot of time putting this list together for us. And this is what Bill is working with Comcast on is seeing >> Mhm. >> how much of this we're going to get to implement
>> over the next 10 years, but has to be part of the contract currently. >> Right. >> Any questions from the public? >> Oh, everybody's reading Toronto. >> Um,
okay then. Basically, I'll add if everything goes the way we want it to, there's nothing but blue skies and unicorns and rainbows and and the peg access future. >> Okay. Thought we were going to have some music with that for the lyric.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, I'm going to finish my script here. >> Are you going to listen? Are you going to take questions from the public? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> You're next.
Okay. Um, yeah online. >> Yes. I'm wondering, you know, is there anything any provisions in the contract or is any thoughts into it that with our dwindling number of subscribers over that were we've dropped considerably over the last several years with
streaming and with the only people that have access to these PG access channels are cable subscribers. Um, and over the next 10 years of the contract, I I'd anticipate that that number is going to dwindle quite a bit
more over a 10-year period with improvements in technology available to people in their households to to stream or to to access normal regular old television. Um, probably won't even call it television by the time we get to 10
years. But um are there any provisions in the contract for Comcast to I mean no longer provide some of this stuff? And if at what point is is there no point in peg peg access channels? Is there is there a subscriber number where it kind
of gets like all this work and all the staff with TCAM to at what point is it not worth it to have a cable all these cable channels? How many do you get to download? 300, 400. How many how many cable subscribers is too little?
>> That that would be entirely up to Comcast themselves. If they look at this the overall scenario and they say, "You've only got 300 subscribers in your town anymore. We don't want to do this. We don't want to do that. We want to
change this." But there is one behind the scenes thing that is also kind of going on at the same time. I've been working off and on with Margaret Scarsdale and she's uh put forward a couple of bills, got a couple of
co-sponsors for it to make it required that all cable companies, not just Comcast, start sharing any revenue that they make through pure streaming services.
So their incentive is is to try and keep as many Comcast customers as they can get one way or another, >> but start sharing the money with the peg access people to keep it going. As a side note to that, which Bill didn't
bring up and all that, but uh the equipment we currently have, the casters machine, we need a little more equipment, but we can actually live stream through Facebook, YouTube, other uh social media
sites, these meetings that we currently record and then put up on YouTube after the fact, which would help in the long run, like broadcasting a a live town meeting from the school. We're doing it
live directly through the TV system, but we can start hopefully in the near future pushing it through directly to social media sites where anybody in towns and whether they're a Comcast subscriber or not will be able to view
the content that uh cable uh peg access cable is producing now. Yeah, I would really look forward to you guys putting as much uh live feeds onto YouTube and some of the other stuff that some of these shows that are locally
produced at least that you have on on the cable channels onto the YouTube channel so those of us that are not not cable subscribers can enjoy some of the cooking classes that I used to watch when I had cable. Those would be nice. Yeah, >> Madam Chair, if I could just say one
thing on that, as Dave mentioned, there's the bill in the in this in the legislature to get to have streamers who use the public way to have to pay a percentage of their revenue. Um, on the issue of streaming, I I think I I think it's helpful if the the board gets
involved uh with TCAM and what decisions are made. I mean, you know, almost every Access Corporation streams uh its its programming, but I think there are decisions to make whether you stream it uh and then people go to your website,
the TCAM website, or the town have a link to to stream. Um and the towns would only be the government's channel but uh as oo as as as contrasted with social media if you feel you want uh you want to share that
or you want to keep it separate from social media uh where they have their business and you have yours. Uh also cable companies traditionally when streaming began would say well look uh people who are getting that programming
are not paying for it. It's the cable subscribers they would say who pay for it. Uh and so uh when the benefit goes to non-cable subscribers eventually, you know, the system doesn't work. Well, what changed in uh 2019
uh based on an FCC decision, which cities and towns would disagree with, is that a cable company has the right as a since they're a cable company with a cable franchise, cable license in Massachusetts, they have the right to use that public way for internet and
telephone. And the FCC says, even though we can disagree with it, that uh that the the franchising authority, the town doesn't have does not have the right to regulate that or even to get fees from
it. So that since a cable company has the right like Comcast unlike Verizon which is a teles in the public way not just because they're a cable company since a cable company like Comcast is in the is in the public way for internet and telephone at the present time only
because they have a cable franchise. Uh it would seem that the fact that uh people who use Comcast for internet and get the streaming over the internet uh it wouldn't seem to be unfair to Comcast
since they're they're getting the ability to provide that service because they have a cable franchise. So that so that you certainly have the right to stream. Almost every access corp and your access corp which has done a great job in building where it is and plans to
go ahead will likely stream. But I do think as I said that I think that discussion of where and how to stream should be had with the board because there are policy and uh decisions one can make as to where that is. uh and eventually uh you know there are pl
there's very a few places one place in particular that began the process if you want to get the program from streaming that there was a cost uh there was a payw wall for streaming now I'm not suggesting now what happened then is the town ended up helping out the access
corp and that disappeared but there are decisions to be made and I think Dave when when DAM starts to do that it should do it do do it in consultation with the board. But yes, that's going to be the future. People will be able to
see this this programming uh at the very least on a dam streaming website. >> Thank you. >> The slightly long answer was is that eventually we're going to be doing it. It's just a matter of we got to get this
current contract and the current situation nailed down and then we can start looking at some of these other potential options. >> But I think I also heard at this time uh attorney Salman said that even though
the numbers have gone down 100 plus a year for three years, the revenue is still up there. Well, I think my guess on that would be because five years ago your bill was only $75 a month, but now
it's 150. There's less subscribers, but that lesser group is paying more money, >> right, >> than in the past. So, >> I think that's everything. >> Um, any other questions? >> Good question. >> Hearing none.
Okay, I do have a final comment. The board the town reserves the right to hold additional hearing or hearings as may be needed, although that is not anticipated. Thank you all for participating today.
And if there's nothing else, I'll call this public hearing closed at 7:59 p.m. Thank you, Attorney Solomon and Dave. >> Thank you very much. Again, I wanted to thank you, T administrator, for being a
full partner in this. Very helpful. >> Good night, Bill. >> Good night. Thank you. Bye, Dave. >> Okay, so are we done with the goals? I think we finished the goals, right? >> Yeah, I think 4.7. >> Yeah.
>> And so, next would be the organizational chart. 4.8. Nelson, if you're going to speak to it, do you want to screen share that? >> Um,
remind me of what um what specifically are we talking about um related to the or the organizational chart? Are we just looking to update it? I >> I thought that was part of the um whole
thing with um the attorneys and uh >> but they seem to say whatever changes we make we just have to bring forward. >> Yes. So it's probably >> the notes I made were in reference to the charter whatever deal we have to >> but I I mean I I'm under the understanding I think most of the
changes we've like with the goal of department of public works I don't think that changes anything in the charter because we're not changing the job the descriptions of any of the boards >> right >> it's purely organizational employees
if the board moved along with an employee or is That's right. It's not changing anything for a board me. >> That's that's what I >> The job descriptions may change. >> Yes, the job descriptions will change,
but um or may change, but the um and the placement on here will change, but um I think we got the questions answered that we needed to have answered for this. >> Okay. >> I I don't
>> So, are you done with 4.8? >> I 4.8 8 and 4.9 go together. And so Nelson will provide us with >> updates, >> recommendations >> for for joining things. I assume that that's what's going to happen.
>> Correct. And that may necessitate a a new org chart organizational chart being produced. Um so yeah, I think those two items kind of go hand in hand. and the timeline >> um >> that
>> well I think we were shooting for town meeting article in in January so you know we kind of have a lot of work to do between now and January >> I have an update for the 19th for us >> yeah absolutely
um you can't see Yeah. Uh, so just Okay. Do you want to do 4.6? >> Uh, no. I want to wait. I, like I said, I want to give you all no interruptions with that one just to
get through it. Um, >> oh, wait on the agenda, you mean? Okay. So, just do that. Next 4.13 updates on policies being worked on. >> Um, we unfortunately did not get an
update from town council. We have provided them with I think a handful of >> I have the website content, federal funds, media relations, social media, emergency assistance, and alcohol beverages. >> Yep. Um we
>> those are the current policies I think waiting with you >> that we had uh asked town council for them to take a look at. I have not heard back from them yet. So I think they're still working through them all. >> Um okay. One thing I would like to do is
have the personnel policies and procedures looked at because I do think that has to be um voted at town meeting also. >> Okay. So, um, you know, at some point we need to start working on that because
that will take a hearing process and a warrant article and I thought that was part of the in this timeline. >> So, I think what we should do is um yeah, I think it was towards the the secondary goals or the policies
>> policies. Yeah, secondary goal. uh November personnel policies and procedures started with town meeting vote in mind and for March any warrant articles needed for the policies at the end of the town meeting. So um >> okay so the November 19th meeting
>> uh we need to get started on that however that's going to be done. Yeah, I think um you know to your your guys points earlier, you need to start with the the base document. Everyone's looking at the same one and then
everyone reviews it on their own and then at an open meeting we go through everything. Any questions or comments, we we revise it and then keep going through that list. It's a pretty big document, right? So, it's going to take multiple
meetings, I think, um, to to sort of get through it. >> So, maybe it would be good if >> Yeah. Um, that's the selectment operating policies. That's not it. It's the personnel policies and procedures. So,
maybe if Cali could provide for us >> for the next meeting, whatever version you're working with, and then we can go from there. >> Yep. Okay. Does that make sense? >> So, November send it in advance so we can look through it. >> Yeah.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. So, why don't we do um so 410 to fire chief is here. >> Yeah. >> Show you. Sure.
>> Sign it. >> Sabrina probably needs this. Correct. >> Yes. >> Um, >> Sabrina will need it. >> I'll take it. She needs >> Hi, >> how are you? >> Good. How are you?
>> Thanks for the invite. >> My pleasure. Okay, questions from the board. >> I guess I was going to give you guys an opportunity to explain the plan for the leadership structure with the opening
right now and what you see going forward. I I know we have a good solid job description for the assistant fire chief. um how that fits in with a part-time fire chief, what the goal is for who you would hire in the future,
etc. >> So, some of that I think Valerie was out there, but I'll try to recapture and and we'll dig as deep as you want. Um the the position that we posted for the
assistant fire chief was certainly to be groomed for my position. Um, and then that has all changed. And I think the 2 and 1/2 override that failed exacerbated the problem. So, we don't just have one opening, we got three openings right
now. The town's people have voted. I think we got to give them what they want. And what that means is there will be uh a reduced level of availability and services. Instead of having two regular shifts around the clock and one
per DM, there may be two regular shifts around the clock and no PDM. The um the vacant spot that we have as an assistant chief, we've reduced that by $20,000 of the 74,000. And by the way, for the
record, I believe my department was hit individually of any department in the town hardest. I don't think there was another town, another department in the town that was hit for the 74,000 that we paid back. >> So, >> in dollars, that's true. Proportionally,
I think it was probably the police station that was proportionally hit. Yeah. Equal or worse. Even >> I hope you've had this conversation with Jay because he and I have had this conversation as well and I don't and I refuse to put words in his mouth. So,
we're missing an assistant chief and we've cut that back this year. And what that will look like for next year. Um, I don't think we'll be able to fill that position for his price less 20 moving forward. I
I I don't know how you're going to do that. Uh, fire chiefs right now are 140 to $180,000 in the area, not 65. and um and Jim's price was was very good at
110. Um and I think most everyone is dedicated. So, we're down an assistant chief. We're down a full-time uh person on one of our one of our groups. And uh we've also eliminated another position. So, we've eliminated two operative
positions and an administrative or chief officer's position. So that's added to the uh the responsibilities of myself and the deputy and the majority of the folks that are within the department to pick that up. On the short term, I think that you know that's doable. The long
term um probably not. And uh I think you need to be prepared that the unions are coming back for renewal again in the spring. We did have a pretty substantial increase. We we made up that difference
in our receipts. Uh you probably got a perfect storm coming. Um because without the shifts being filled, without us being able to cover some of the demands that are out there, that means the revenue will decrease. And with that
decrease, um I know that I don't always get the information as quickly as I'd like it. the um the 700,000 and I understand that maybe there's an increase that you proposed from ambulance receipts for
next year of eight or 900,000. >> Um I haven't really contemplated that. Um but there >> I mean it's a it's a consideration. Um I haven't really populated my >> it may not be there for you to take and
>> if you're going to take it you might want to have a conversation with us so we can give you an idea of what the projections look like. and uh I just don't see it. I and I know what it's happening in the region. So, I told you that by October we'd have a
pretty good idea and we'd probably be posting a position in the in the winter for early spring and we still are moving in that direction. Um we do have some unknowns. the unknown of what the grant looks like, what the criteria is for the
closure of Moba, but they anticipate that um um the new hospital emergency department in Gaten should be open November of 26. Um it's a uh it's a complicated problem.
I'm humored sometimes and not in a good way that there are folks that sit on the sidelines that feel that they understand the mutual aid agreement. They understand the uh the intercept charges, they understand all of that and how the money can be moved. But we're in a
precarious position that without the right people in the right place, without the income that you've been accustomed to, um we the town have been accustomed to, it may not be there. So, I guess in the question, one of the
questions that has been raised and I'll raise it is is the long-term goal to continue to have an assistant fire chief and a part-time fire chief or to make that one position because I would think that would affect who you would be looking for and what your goal is in the
next year. >> That has been the goal though. The goal my goal >> so that because that that then that salary range >> my goal was never to be budget. >> No. Yeah. So, but in terms of the organizational structure that's the you know those you understand what I'm asking Veronica
>> that those two commission positions combine into one >> effectively. Yes. There's not a lot of there's not a lot of the the role as fire chief is is to understand the fire ground and the uh
EMS role but also the administrative side >> and we've increased our revenue substantially and you got to be able to maintain that moving forward and so you don't take the best quarterback and make them the general manager. So you don't just pull someone out. They've got to
have an understanding of how all of that integrates. And that's what some of our success has been to generate the income. And it appears that there's a fair amount of eyes that want a piece of that income. But the cost to the town has not increased dramatically in 10 years, even
though our cost of operation has increased substantially because we've made up the difference. So the simple question is, what does it look like? I'd like to say that I know, but yes, the short answer for you would be an
assistant chief and a fire chief could be rolled into one, and I would hope that to be the case. Um, I know that some of the communities locally are going to be changing their chief officers in the next year. >> And I know there's discussions about regional EMS services.
>> Not as simple as one might think they could be. >> Of course not. I'm not implying that they are, and it's a long-term process, but I think that plays into the conversation. So we try to have a succession plan and we try to train on multiple levels. So if I walk out the door tomorrow, the
next in command is Mr. King, Deputy Chief King. Um it's a 247 gate. >> I'm not dying it up. >> You know, we all understand that. So to find the right to find the right fit
isn't uh throw an advertisement and have them walk in cuz it's not happening. >> We've been advertising to fill the paramedic role that we've got and we've had three candidates we've offered jobs to and each one of them walked away.
They understand the climate in the community. People don't want to come where it's not supportive. We don't need to get into that. you know, they want to make sure they know they're going to a place where they're going to be okay. So, it's all
>> that was just the goal on that structure and >> the structure goal hasn't really changed. The the uh the reduction in our ability to hire at competitive rates has changed.
You get what you pay for. I'm not ready to quantumize that yet, though. We had a bad fire two weeks ago. I think you're all aware of it. Man was dead inside the building. Folks are I sent you all a letter. Folks are adequately trained. We need to make sure we're
trained. They went in. They were able to identify him, grab them, drag them out, and they were able to shift without having command make directive decisions. Pump operator leaves the pump. Somebody else backfills. They go over, they do it. They revived him, flew him to Worester, sent him to Boston. The guy's
alive. If we want to give up that level of service, we can do it. I'm not ready to do that yet. But the town made a very clear statement. And I think all of us in our positions have to give them what they want. And unfortunately, there will
be a day that someone may not be made won't be able to say that success story. There's a price for everything. That's where we're at. >> Any questions? >> We appreciate you. >> We do and everything that you do.
>> We try >> cuz I don't think People think enough that you put yourselves in danger when you go into something like that. And all of our guys do, >> police as well as fire.
>> So when it works well, it looks great. When it doesn't work well, it's a big problem. We got two new fire trucks that are in Haveril. They're expected to be delivered. That'll keep us in compliance. Not that folks worry about
that with NFPA, with ISO, with a number of things. Um, but as I said to Nelson a week ago, what do you want me to do about outfitting these trucks? We gave back money that we weren't anticipating that we were anticipating to use it. Nelson said, "Well, take it out of your
250 from the state." He said, "We can't do that." And he said, "Well, take it out of ambulance receipts. At some point in time, that well runs dry." So, we got two new trucks that we've got to cobble together to get equipment that's 2025 compliant.
We're 125,000 short, but the town voted. And so, I don't know what we're going to do with that yet. There will be a day that we're not going to be able to give you the success story that we've had unless we get some type of miracles coming up.
Anthony, regardless of who the chief is, the people have to the the department has to buy into that chief. You can have the best chief here, and if our people don't buy in, we're going to have a problem. People are going to leave, medics can leave, they can get a job anywhere
tomorrow. Um, we all support Gary. And I mean, it shows, our department shows. So I I don't understand what I know we have a budget problems but um you know in our department's eyes Gary seems to be doing a pretty good job in holding it together
the best we can. If you get the wrong person we're going to be >> we've been there. We've actually been there and we know how bad it is how bad it could be. >> Other towns have tried recently to get a chief and it hasn't worked out. It's not
there's there's not a bunch of guys looking for the position. So, um, and someone's going to have to work under gear for a period of time to understand our mission statement because it's working. >> Hire one. I know one backed out.
>> Yep. They're back at square one. >> As per replacing the, you know, there's going to be an assistant sheet for a while to work under Gary. It's not going to be an overnight thing where a guy just comes in here or chief comes in here and understands how everything works.
We are paramilitary. This is not to make everybody feel good. Our job is to deliver when you call. Sometimes it's not pretty. Sometimes people here think they don't want. Some people don't like us. That's too bad. After we had that call on Friday, the
following day, they had a an elderly woman took a tumble downstairs, broke four limbs in another town. They called us in. We were already on a second call. They had to call for extra help to the other town. So, our department guys came back. People came back to work at 9:00
at night. They went there. The woman went into cardiac arrest, brought her back twice, put her in a helicopter, and flew her off. She did ultimately meet her demise, but the level of care and the level of expertise and the expectation that we hold, uh, people hit
it. And it's really sad to see it on the precipice of a of a slide. And for those that think it's easy to replace and pull somebody out, tit like to say go ahead and do it. But the taxpayers deserve more and better.
I'm grateful for you guys. So, um, >> if you're good, we're good. >> I hope to be able to give you something concrete. >> The pool is small and it's gotten smaller because we can't afford to pay much. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh, you know what? Tom's here. >> Yeah. Why don't we uh >> why don't we do 4.13 about your portal and >> 4.15 >> or 15 and um >> yeah in the interest package
>> in in the interest of time I know um you know these materials were sent out to all of you so I won't repeat everything um if there are any particular questions um I'm happy to address any anything that you have
>> good Um, >> Veronica, do you want to start? >> Well, I want I want to start with a um It looks like it's already in place, I guess. Why are we finding out about it after why wasn't the select board
included in the conversation that started probably before the beginning of August? That's one question I have. And that's really more process than it is um content. Um I also want to know the cost
and where the cost is coming from. I know you developed some of it >> entirely. >> Um so there >> but there was a what the way I even found out about it was the warrant. There was a charge in the warrant for GitHub that I didn't recognize and I
wanted to know what that was for >> and that was the way I found out about that. So for all the talk of transparency, this process was not >> and so I requested that it be put on the
>> um on the agenda. Um I also saw the weigh in from town council on the advisability of doing this. >> So >> well the >> So tell us about it. I guess is what it comes down to. So this came as a result
of months of a really large number of public records requests, >> right? >> And contrary to the belief, you know, coming into this meeting, this did not get developed over a period of months or weeks. This was developed in days to
solve a problem that we had right away. Well, maybe that's the case, but the idea for it came up two months ago because you checked with Civic Plus. Well, sure. That was in the email stream that you probably had. >> Sure. There's there's a pro there's been
a problem since, you know, back in June when the requests were coming in. >> The this particular solution to the issue did not appear until immediately recently. >> Okay. The fact, what I'm saying is the
fact that there needed to be a solution of some sort. It would have been nice to have known that that was even being discussed because I heard it from nowhere if I hadn't been signing the warrant. And I go through the warrants um and and saw a charge that I had never
seen before in the town clerk's realm. And that's why I requested that this be put on. And and that's why I don't even know that I would have known about anything or we would have known about this new portal at all >> had I not been looking at things when I
signed the warrant. It was GitHub. >> Sure. Yeah. And so GitHub is a a tool that's used for the management of the source control of code. Basically keeping the code together in an organized fashion, right? >> Um there was availability within the
existing budget. So, there's no new incurrence of expenses for this. >> Is it a one-time charge? Then >> the $48 is an annual expense for as long as it is necessary, which it may not always be necessary because development
is active actively occurring now. Some features are still being iterated upon. Um, I don't know if all of you were if you saw the followup to the conversation with council. Um, >> probably not. We had a meeting tonight and that came in right before the meeting.
>> Yeah. So the the followup with that was um that a feature to implement a private request to hide the the content if it in if it may rise to the point where it causes potential legal liability to the town. Um it it could be marked as
private and could of course be obtained by a separate public records request but isn't broadcasted. So that issue is resolved. And >> how is it resolved? who determines whether or not it needs to be private. >> So that that's a procedural matter within the the purview of the town
clerk's office. >> So that means you determine that. >> Correct. >> But I'm sorry, but that wouldn't be up to your objective if it is perhaps disfiguring someone's character publicly, let's say.
>> Well, if a request came that request comes in to make it private, it's already happened. So, I'll say at this point that's a conversation with council about, you know, the approach that's taken. If the select board wants to promulgate policy as to how that determination is made,
that's within the purview of the select board. That's not a matter that's posted on your agenda for tonight. >> Can can I ask a question? I'm sorry. You know, I've been out and I haven't read the proposal or whatever is in front of you, but I'm struggling to understand
why we need code management for this. I So, when I left and maybe this is what you're referring to, but there was a table on the website with >> Yeah. So the >> so the the core issue here there was a
digital file system on the town servers for storage of files. There's a spreadsheet several spreadsheets related to the tracking of requests generally. There's email folders that have been used for storage of some files and then
there you know we're >> misimed storage >> right but that's not if I may continue the the point is all of these are systems that are manually maintained separately that are not in sync and it's not always clear if you go
to the website right now the town official townsenmma.gov public records page that is not current. The spreadsheet is also not current compared to that. The emails are also not current compared to that. And the file structure
is also not current compared to any of those. So maintaining all four of those systems manually separately was a bottleneck when dealing with tens per day, tens per week, um you know,
hundreds in a month. So >> yeah, there about and >> so this is all in sync. It's a has the ability to generate a report so it can be accurate for who the departments who
are viewing it and the the point is to solve this workflow issue that is again a procedural matter within the purview of the town clerk. So, I go ahead. >> I 100% concur with all the backend stuff, everything you're dealing with and the hundreds of requests and however
best it needs to be done within the towns office. I think where I, and you probably know I'm going to say this because we've talked about it before, where I come in is the publication of all this. And just because >> it's unusual in Massachusetts
for towns to publish all of the public records requests on their website. And I worry because of the sometimes and I just want this to be on the record solicious natures of the public records request >> that we open ourselves as we know up to legal liability by publishing these
things and decide. So I guess the question is is like I I completely appreciate that you need to consolidate and if $40 of code helps you consolidate everything >> wonderful and if it makes your life easier. I guess the question I have is just that last step of it all being
>> if the select board wishes to issue policy that's saying they're all private by default that's fine. The reason that they were published starting around May when I took over is because we were getting public records requests for public records requests and it to do
that circular while we also have hundreds of other new ones coming in becomes challenging. Um that's also why the tracking numbers were implemented so we can be clear about okay are we talking about request one two three or one 124 and so the you know there were a
number of changes implemented then um you know if the select board wishes to make that their policy that none of them are publicly available that's fine. the ability to do the searching that if you go to the requests page of this new portal that still is maintained internally. Those features that improve
the ability and the efficiency within the clerk's office are still available and they don't have to be visible to the public. >> That's a policy determination of the select board >> and because I really do I really do appreciate the effort to consolidate for your workflow and your it's overwhelming
to that office. >> Well, and I'm saying it's overwhelming to everyone as well. and to have one sold accurate information >> and and I appreciate the ability of a department to be able to go in there and say this is what I have. I love that where I come in is was just and that's
why I got legal counsel. >> Yeah. The public part and you know the other he did say you'll probably know though as far as legal liability and I think the select should he said I'm not >> not unconcerned [Music]
not unconcerned. So the point I'm trying to make, if I may finish my statement, oh yeah, is that the select board should weigh what qualifies as what should be private because there is value in having some displayed publicly. There are many repeat requests that come in perhaps the
the BVA year to date. That is a ve very standard thing that may be requested multiple times. If we can eliminate duplicate requests that come in, that is the value that comes from that because instead of having to pay cbiz to respond to the same request 15 times,
>> but you don't need to do that. You already have the record. You can just >> Well, if it's year to date one day after that year to date is different than so it they may be similar in nature. That was a hypothetical example. >> There are two for the um letter that the
fire chief sent at the beginning of >> Right. And that two exact same requests >> for the same thing. >> And so I'm I'm just saying the select board. >> No, not the same person. Two different people make the same request. And so it doesn't exactly work that way. I can see
the need for doing it. I would like it to be held up as private until we determine >> Yeah. >> Um how it should be. Um, I I think it should be private until there are policies in place that we've worked on.
This is not something that I even anticipated before I signed the warrant last week. So, um, I had no idea anything. >> Um, and so that's what I would like to see happen. Well, um con but I do like
the table that you sent out that said these are the requests and I can see where that is useful to department heads >> generated perspective but to to have it out in the ether >> I understand >> um >> I mean there are some of them that I
think um >> if I were a latigious person I I would be picking up some of those Um so, uh anyway, >> so how do we um I'm really baffled by this between yesterday and today um this
list >> I'm happy to address. Oh, so the >> of a hundred over a hundred requests >> and with the statement uh this is a reminder that these are pending 23. This is a reminder that these are pending 84.
Um >> these are the ones that are still outing from June. >> From June. >> Yeah. Many of them. Some are brand new and were within the the due date schedule. Some have as I'm uh there was an initial email that was sent out. We
received about uh 35 if I recall correctly in the last week. Um so many 35 of the 134 on that report >> in the last week. in the last week >> and some of them are duplicate the same question to the to different department
>> I don't recall all of the details of those intimately I can get you that information you know after this meeting if you'd like but there are many requests >> okay when this says town administrator and select board there's 84 for our board so what >> I don't remember seeing 84 oh yeah there
were 142 that came in in one day those new >> so if I may not all of them are for the select board members themselves. Raffle or not raffle but like let's say it's a class 3 auto license. It's none of these requests are for that but a
hypothetical that is a select board office record that would not be in your individual custodies but it's the custody of this office physically right here. >> So this is >> and so or some many in in fact are
related to procurement records. The chief procurement officer is required by master law to generally have these records. So >> I'm not aware of those >> procurement records request >> bids contracts th those are records that are
required by law to be man managed by the chief procurement officer. The charter requires the the town administrators the chief procurement officer. >> Where are we going to show the cost of staff time for all of these? We have to have a separate line item for
addressing this because for all the money we spend staff time addressing this takes away from all the actual >> projects issues we're supposed to take care of for the tax dollars that the residents are paying. >> Yeah. So this is an unfunded mandate from the state. We're required to comply
with the public records law. State doesn't provide anything other than its unrestricted general government aid. um you know that that's a broader policy and funding conversation for the legislature and perhaps I'm sure but the division that's what we do and that
we're not transparent who has time >> well you know that's it's not something I have an answer to it's the this public record >> to this amount Kathy >> yes >> to this hundreds >> 2015 2016 even requested from the state
>> would they give us money No, >> no. To to put an end to this because it was the same people over and over and over asking for the same information and they said, "Sorry, this is your job." At least you probably knew who the people were. >> Um, which is a difference
>> also. I mean, we don't know for the most part. >> Fake emails coming through. >> No, it's anonymous. >> They're anonymous. >> They're anonymous. Who's Titanic >> Townen? >> I don't know. But Nelson and I have, you know, had lengthy conversations with the supervisor of records office and they
have given us tools to use in responding to requests. But the moral of the story was as long as it's asking for kind of legitimate government records, it's a lawful >> kind of legitimate. >> Well, could could the town plausibly have a contract for such and such?
You know, could it could it? And it if it's asking for legitimate governmental records that that was what the state told us and whether it's paraphrased or those exact words that's >> we need a line item to show at town meetings how much is spent for this.
>> I mean I I I don't have the data from other departments. You know I could ask generally for roughly how long. I know I personally spend 60% of my time. So 60% of the the salary line item um can be extrapolated to public records time and that's just within the clerk's office.
Yes. >> At this point, >> but it's not necessarily residents that are asking for this information either. >> They aren't required to be by by law. Um you know, and that's you know, we compare and part of the conversation was around the open meeting law process.
You're required to use a particular form. You're required to put your name on it, sign your name. that is unfortunately not even close to the requirement for the public records law. It is far wider open. Um and the state has given us some tools to use and we've used those including time petitions but
and extensions but um you know th those tools are you know at a certain point limited. I think at at this point it might be this is for a um a department head meeting to go over the public
records policy and to make sure that department heads realize that they need to look at things and estimate >> um the amount of time it's going to take them and charge the requesttor. Well, >> I think that if we regularly charge the
requesters, >> I think that it would be a different story. There are some things that you can find easily. They're right at your fingertips. >> And then there are other things that you don't even know how to search for to find and it takes you hours to figure
out how to search >> if it's not clear. And here here's one of the other recent tools that we have. If it is broad and sweeping is the legal term that comes from case law. If it is broad and sweeping, we can deny access on the basis that it doesn't meet the
legal requirements to be a public records request. >> So I think we need to start that is a new tool. The the other aspect is the things that we can charge a fee for are extraordinarily narrow. the requirements under the the CMR for what we can charge
a fee for are really so narrowly construed and on appeal the supervisor of records there's extensive case law as to what is and what cannot be included um and there are a lot of things that you might generally think could be included but like you know something as
simple as well okay and I I've got these emails here I'll print them out and give them to the requester if the requester says provide them electronically and they are electronically natively and they're printed out, we can't charge for those print outs. So, and that's a that's a recent situation that we did
encounter, $150 worth of printing. Um, so there that was unable to be built because the requesttor asked for them to be provided electronically. >> And can't we say we are not able to provide it that way? >> Well, it's time to gather. >> Well, that's but we can't charge time
for gathering. >> We can't charge it. >> I thought you could to go research. Yeah, I thought you could >> research generally something your job description electronically >> it's it's very narrow. There are certain things that are required for that. I
don't have the citations in front of me but I'd be happy to share that with you and the board. The thing in particular as far as that particular request that relates to that I would say that involves litigation that was the subject of your earlier executive session. So I I don't know that you would want to
continue as far as you >> I think that >> I understand that that and that's why I'm stopping it there. >> I I do I do appreciate the effort and like I said I I really anything to make that more efficient and I think we just need to have a further conversation
about and this is nothing to do with your responsibilities or you >> policy as to what's public or not. It's more than anything just >> fair enough >> looking at the town from a legal perspective. >> That's the within the purview of the select board >> because we just don't want to get if we put information out there that
>> it's had you know an employee a town's person anything that was considered defamatory we don't want that. No. So that was just my my one concern. It was nothing to do with the project itself. >> Thank you. Was there another question? I'm sorry. I I don't think we should be
picking and choosing which ones are private. They just should all be private because then you have an issue of why was that one not disclosed and mine's publicized. You think they all need to be private. Also, I have to put my HR hat on for a second. This uh portal is
something that you found somewhere or you were developing yourself. >> It was entirely created in house. >> So that would be intellectual property of the town. >> The town. Sure. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I I really think it should all be
private until we understand what's going on here. >> I agree with that. >> I don't want to I mean, I don't I don't I don't even know what most of these are. I I can't say that they came to my email for me to look at them or even answer them. >> It's probably true that most of them in
fact did not because many did not involve you personally. And there there were a large number that that did and those we we've had prior discussions about. Um but many of them >> to date or am I in violation here somewhere? >> Well, I would say I have no idea from what you sent. >> I wouldn't say that you're in violation.
I think there were a couple outstanding that we can talk about. I know many many you know had to do with general select board and town administrator records. I haven't been sending those to all three of you personally as they relate to records within the custody of your full-time staff.
>> Okay. Um, >> I appreciate that answer, >> but I really would like it to be private until we can actually have a full-blown conversation about the way to go.
But I and I agree with Val. I think it's a great system for you >> and to keep track of, but it does not have to be on a public site. >> I I understand that that >> it's embarrassing, actually. And I don't even know who who this is, but this is embarrassing, I think, for the town.
>> We're 10 years later now. Okay. From 15 and 16. >> Put them on the website. All the public records. >> I think it was up through 2018 and that it was >> and then it stopped. >> Yeah. I'm not sure about the details about >> some would be some would
put it out there so that people wanted the same information. We have a large swath of the town that is concerned about transparency. You know, while certain requests again may not have value in being disseminated in that way and it may be a legal
liability to the town there generally speaking may be a value in that transparency of even you know perhaps it's just the request content that's the the part that may not be shown and simply the request the list of these people put in requests >> could be part of it. So,
>> but there is a there is a difference now in that we've been through co and ever since co we've had all the meetings online and they're going to stay online >> so that people if they're really interested on >> this is what I didn't understand about
not being transparent because everything has been on YouTube for all of our meetings and I've been in enough of them to know that if people were really interested in a c certain topic it was there for them to see. >> Yeah. I mean, I I can't speak to, you
know, the individual residents with that. I know, you know, I I am personally inclined to find in favor of what is more transparent for those in town and by by default making everything private is in and of itself not transparent. >> The one thing I would say just in in
contra to that because I have looked into this is >> most towns do not put them online. They they have a request process and they're supplied to the people, no doubt. But I mean, and we can submit >> we can submit Adam's opinion as
evidence. It's it's unusual that all the requests are then published on the town website. I I mean I found about 20 towns. I I could send you that list. Um but >> I'd be curious to see and what they're >> that that is the habit of several towns
if not many. And the other thing is that >> I'm not trying to argue against transmission. I understand but inherently by making everything private is in of itself not transparent. So that's why again I would ask the board to consider weighing what are the
criteria for what is private versus everything because there could be a reasonable criteria implemented that could then be used in a from a select board policy to make certain a category request private as opposed to simply
everything. Do you want to make that suggestion so that we can review that? >> Yeah, I could submit that for your next meeting. >> The point is not to be non-transparent. Okay. The point is not to have any legal uh ramifications
of what could be put out there. So, let me ask you, you didn't till 218. >> Why did you stop? >> Um the public records request slowed down a lot at that point. So, and there was a change in my office
of staff at that time. So, we just it fell by the wayside basically. >> It would seem to me that if you had if they if they got slower and you didn't have as many that you would it would be easier to put them up versus when you
had a a gazillion of them, >> right? But with a big change, >> you didn't have a portal. You had to be doing it a different way. We actually uploaded them and put them on and the change in staff it made a difference. >> Okay. >> And the other thing >> public records are request they're
public records. Remember that >> anybody who wants to come in and get them. >> Why do you have to have them published? >> So the the other thing >> the other thing I'll add is I routinely get calls asking for the public records to go back the way they were in 2017 and
2018. I've received numerous calls in the months since I've taken office to do >> where they sit home and do this. >> I can't speak to that, but I can tell you that my constituents and your constituents are routinely asking for
this. So with that in mind, the the particular matter before the board today for as as it relates to this portal, whether the information is public or private, the request before you is the use of the
subdomain ra.zenmma.gov. The point right now, right now the URL is tow--pr.web.app. It doesn't exactly scream official government website. So the the point would be to have basically it it would
look official from the URL. The content of it doesn't need to be public for it to have the official look. And for other, you know, whether it be other staff, if the report feature is opened up internally for departments to access on their own. Um that is something that
if they're navigating to a website, it makes sense for it to be.gov as opposed to.app. I see a hand raised, Madam Chair. Yeah, I'm just wondering who controls the search engine optimization. That's my >> right now it's set so search engines
aren't reading that website so it's not being indexed. >> I mean, >> so how's the information really out there or is it or is the portal only for the town? >> You can search within the portal and you you would have to know to go to the portal, but it's not being indexed. So
it the intent and the search engines don't have to listen to this but I know many search engines I believe Google primarily does listen to this. The instruction given to them electronically is do not index this website. So if I type in so and so into Google the first
result shouldn't be a public records request >> and it will be there eventually on the list. If I type in Cali, how can I pull up what the >> but will come up. >> That's because the request the the revised website is being indexed. This
once it's off of there, it's off of there off of the revised website. And the intent is they will all be gone within the next few days as this portal is finalized within the clerk's office. So none of that will be indexed anyone. If someone clicks that link, it will go to nowhere. Well, I had to say that in
in the interim till we get it all fixed out, I would encourage that they be taken down temporarily just merely for the fact that as you said there is way out of date. So there are requests made that there are no >> I think we should get back to the topic
>> if an appeal was rejected that is not listed. So, >> so the the the thing I'll say that entire public records page on the town court's part of the website is going to be deleted and replaced in the intent was to be replaced with a link to this portal. And the other thing the requests
don't have to be visible um for a requesttor to submit their request through the portal and the also the intent is to then you know reduce the number of emails. There are many requesters who we do know who they are and we can ask. Would you use the the portal to put it in as opposed to email
to streamline and make more efficient >> I I completely support you doing whatever it takes to get that done. So not a question. >> The rao.tsma.gov also makes it look legitimate for that per public purpose for public trying to access this. The search engine optimization part that the search
engines are being instructed do not read this website. The other thing about the the web system that I'm using to make this website, unless I enable particular settings, it is not search engine friendly. I have not enabled those settings and don't intend to. The the purpose of the website is for those in
towns who are particularly involved with matters with a town or town can go and access this should they go to the clerk's page and see that this is where the public records requests live and they could go and access it that way. So >> it's not for search engines and really
international, you know, reading of this website. >> So what happens if you weren't here anymore? How is that website maintained? Who handles it? Who else knows about it? Who else are you training here at be able to use it? >> So certainly the assistant town clerk is
being trained on utilization of it. I think the intent once it's opened up to departmental staff to have access particular access and user accounts that the public doesn't have the same permissions as them training to excuse me the the staff who would routinely be
involved with public records requests likely department heads and their admin assistants um to be knowledgeable of this system. As far as maintenance goes, you know, while it's currently being custom coded, it's using um a web framework created by Google that's
commercially available for free for people. It's used professionally um you know for from you know multi- trillion dollar corporations to you little websites like this. So it's maintainable from a sense that the knowledge is out there on how to maintain it
>> as long as someone has that knowledge or willing to go and get it. >> Yeah. Um it's why the looking at the Civic Plus and I saw that it was I mean there was a charge for that. >> Um but then it's a it's like the the
difference between volunteers using Excel and I and and using um >> you know software for budgeting. It's that difference. >> Yeah. >> And so I have a concern there on that.
Um anyway, what I think right now is hold up until we get some policies in place. >> I mean, I I would support putting the access to it. >> I I have no problem with that from the standpoint of someone can go in there and >> entering a request. >> 100%.
>> Entering the request. Yes. Because that >> So the action that can occur today, they can all be marked as private in one fell swoop. that the action that I I would ask this board to consider tonight is to it I will authorize Nelson to coordinate
with Guardian to authorize the use of that subdomain. The request will be marked as private at this point and you know the from there the select board can issue regulation on how to classify the request from there. >> I'm I want to >> not for the URL. >> Yeah, not for the URL.
>> So that would just allow though for someone to enter it. It wouldn't allow them to access it. It would just allow all go private. >> They would all go private and I would ask this board to vote. Yes. >> I want to talk to your way into >> Nelson has communicated with Guardian.
>> I've been waiting for a response from them. I >> communicated with them um Harrison's initial request to create a subdomain. Um but I told Guardian to look at to you know talk to Harrison but also explore
what you know is there a cost to it. Is there um you know um a security issue just you know from their point of view if there we might not be aware of that we that that that question and you have not heard that I have not I
pinged them this morning so I'm hoping for a response we have answers to that um and and I think in the future just for information I at least would like to know when there's something like this
even being considered and not find out about it at the very end. Yeah, I would. >> So, there is um just just so I can ask and make this clearer because you're >> we didn't know anything about this and you're saying this is something that was
looked into after June. There is an email in this packet >> that's from John Tate. >> Yeah. So, that's the cost proposal. So Nelson and I evaluated the next request software. Um this particular solution,
the portal that has been made today. >> I believe it was midmon I I want to say you know October 10th or so that it was actually being put together. So this is not something
that has been this particular solution has not been developed over months or you know weeks and weeks. This is brand new. You know the the point at which you were notified is when it was ready for use. The features were finished. That
that's the point at which you were notified. >> Okay. So I think that's what Veronica is uh >> I would like to I think we all would have. >> So I know this board has discussed the need for something related to public records request several times. Yeah, we
have. >> And the other thing is, you know, public records requests are within the purview of the town clerk's office. Um, I've taken it upon myself to fulfill those responsibilities. >> Yeah. No one's I don't think anybody's denying that at all. >> No. >> And I I will if anybody's curious, I
mean, I would reference Adam's >> response. You want me to read any of it or >> No. Okay. >> But just it's basically opening up to liabilities. That's the only concern I have. nothing like I would be fine even with the portal being accessible for entry whenever we get information from
>> guardian it's accessardian whether it's on whether it's on this official looking domain or an unofficial looking domain >> the the only thing that the request that's before you has to do with is related to the appearance of the domain
and whether it looks official on just from the URL or it looks unofficial from the URL And if the board wishes to consider policy at a future meeting, you know, that that's an additional agenda item. >> I mean, I'll entertain a motion for
>> internal portal that is just access internally when to use it but not published. >> I I I disagree and it like as has already been agreed to the request will all be marked as private. The public being able to enter requests
is one of the core gains of this feature. And the other thing as I mentioned, they can do that right this moment. They can go into that system and enter requests. The difference being the appearance of a professional look. The the other thing and and this guardian
will affirm to this when they provide the responses to Nelson that there's no security implication inherent in the use of of a subdomain. Tech Technically speaking, that's not how that works. Assuming the count is in control of it, which it is,
then that's absolved. >> I will entertain a motion subject to Guardian's um advice and it remaining private until there's policy in place. Um I make a motion. Do you want to give me the exact
>> I need your name? >> Yeah. And the request content is if I remain private, >> very quickly I just want to say as a requesttor of public records, I have actually gone in and seen that someone
else has asked the same question I wanted to ask and so I didn't send it in. >> Okay. Well, thank you for that. >> Just Yeah, exactly. Um, so I make a motion that the select board authorize the use of the subdomain
razenmma.gov for the public records request portal pending um, [Music] >> how would you like me to say it? >> Approval from guardian as to the security. Pending approval from Guardian
Technologies as the security of the use of the domain >> and remain private. >> And setting the request content to remain private. >> Yeah. And setting request content to remain private. Want me to do that again? I request that the select board vote to authorize the use of this
request. >> Sorry. I move >> I Valerie Goodri for all the meeting bots out there. I Valerie Gooditch request that the select board vote to authorize the use of the subdomain rao.zen.mma.gov for the public records request portal
subject to >> sorry I have a different friendly amendment as well townsenma.gov as opposed to ma.gov >> so we want to say that subject to guardian >> approving as to security and
the and all content being marked as private. >> Yeah, the request content being marked as private >> as well as the response content. >> Yeah, it would be >> well yeah the documents wouldn't show that's >> it wouldn't be part you wouldn't be able to access >> you couldn't access it. Um I move that the select vote to authorize the use the
subdomain.mma.gov of the public records request portal subject to approval to talk about too many times >> to to review an approval as to security >> by guardian technologies and with all
requests marked as private until further discussion >> request details or or all the the distinction I'm making whether it's a distinction with with a difference is is the fact that there's a request so there's a tracking number a request put
in by so and so on this date. My my ask my by marking request content the details of the request and the response documents that would be private. The fact that a request was put in would be public. >> That's fine. Yeah. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure we were
on the same page. >> I'm not getting a >> There's a hand raising me. Can we make it searchable or I feel like when Mary James mentioned and I think so did Kathy about people going there and finding something
they were going to request. But the problem with that is how far do they even look back right? You look you go on Facebook scroll you just ask >> like if there's so much activity this week they're probably all doing the same thing. >> Yes. So but can you search? Can you make
a search? Well, the problem with that if the request isn't public, is it public for the purpose of searching or is it is it is it private? And so you're using it internally though. >> Internally, we would have full search and the the search and I'd be happy to
walk through it at some point. The the advanced search, you can filter by every section of the request, the request date, the request due date. You can filter by departments, whether it's any of the departments or all of the departments. you can by the request or you you can search by all of it is the
point. So that that that advanced search capability is available um assuming the request is visible to the person. So if it's not visible to the public but you're signed in and you're assigned a department staff role and you have access to that then it would show up for
that department staff user >> and the intent is to make that widely available to staff in the near future. I would like to see this on the next agenda. I would like to see the response from Guardian. I would like the
opportunity to ask questions to Guardian that I may have and by approving it subject to Guardian saying, "Okay, I lose that opportunity and therefore I am not seconding the motion. You're welcome
to, but um I'm not in favor at this point." That does not mean I think it's a horrible thing or anything like that. Um I just I want more time. Would would Harrison would I mean do you think we could have a more complete answer to the
questions for our next meeting? >> That depends on Guardian and at this point I mean I spoke to them I think it was October 17th or so and they said that they were going to be calling Nelson the following Monday. Um and
>> I'm sorry. Yeah. No, it was way earlier than that. Um >> because I mean I would like to get I would like to I mean I can retract motion. We can have a clean thing >> without all these ifand ands buts next time. >> Next time that is what I would like makes it clearer for you.
>> I put it on November 5th. >> That I I will not be able to attend that night. >> Well, no, of course not. But if it's all prepared and you get a chance to look at it beforehand and >> but we'll address it then. >> Anything in writing that you would like me to read, I'm happy to read or talk to you beforehand. >> Okay. whatever is your
>> I mean the process is good and I think we agree with a smoother system for you. It's just a couple of things that are bothersome and everything is for a reason that you found it. Um I I think we're all bothered a little bit by
it but also feel like >> well this request was already coming you know in prior discussions with Nelson. So this was already a separate happening >> um prior to >> absolutely >> I was still >> well we were not made aware of it. >> Well I'm I was working >> it was still early in discussion.
>> I was still working on it and >> and now it's done but it's just to approve it and it's already you know I can't speak to guardians response time. Um, well, I'm I'm talking about us at this point. >> Well, there should have been an answer
at this point is what I mean. >> Thank you. >> Well, if we're going to wait until Guardian gives us um their opinion, can at the very least we can vote to make the contact private. >> We we've agreed that it would be
private. >> Well, it was as a part of that motion. I I'm more inclined to send the the draft policy and follow that draft policy until further guidance. >> What draft policy? >> The the draft policy that would be
generated and sent to this board to consider. >> Okay. >> Um you're writing the policy or we're writing as to give his opinion on it and we'll discuss it. He he has knowledge of the thing and
will know what to say. If something doesn't look right to us, we can address what we don't agree with. >> Okay. >> I don't want to have to rewrite another policy when it he's the department head. >> He knows what he's doing. I don't know what he's doing.
>> Fair enough. And it also it and it saves the legal expense of having to write it >> at $200. If we still have and if we still have an issue, we can always ask for legal review. >> I just >> November 5th. >> I'm trying to
>> um >> and it remains private until then. >> It remains private until at least the 5th. >> If it does not go >> No, that that's that's not what I had just said. I my I said that what I would do is follow the draft policy >> and your policy would allow for it to be
public. No, there would be according to the draft policy certain ones would be marked as private and that policy hasn't yet been developed >> that well that's not within the perview of the board until there's an existing policy
>> well no be that was a condition as a part of the motion the motion hasn't been seconded even >> that doesn't mean it can go live >> it >> he has it live he's done it anyway Okay.
Without our permission. >> So that that was and that was a mutual agreement as a condition of that motion. >> So you're saying you're going to put it out there live regardless. >> It already is. Is that >> No, I will live.
>> The the clerk's office has already undertaken the task of reviewing which ones should be marked as private. Now that functionality exists, so we will continue and that draft policy will be submitted to the select board for review.
>> How long has this been live? >> Maybe two, three days. Not a lot. >> So, and during >> it's not what you see when you go onto the website and go to public records. It
is not what you see. What you sent to us is not what's there. Correct. And that that old information was >> and so I don't want that information out on our website. >> I see. I that was not the I I understand
that. That is fine. And the the old information will be removed, but no new information will be added because right now it's out of date as it is. >> As it was mentioned, there are some appeals without the responses to the appeals, >> right? There were some things that were there to that information. the the
outofdate information will be removed without this new link being added. We we were not on the same page. >> I'm good with that. I'm good with that. Lauren just >> Yes, >> that's fine. >> How do you make sure that everything is up to date on the new still?
>> Well, no, there's there's only one place. There's no spreadsheet and file folder and this is the place >> comp it it was not doable. Right now where we stand here they will be public just on a different page.
>> No is there >> particular ones of concern are going to be marked as private imminently. >> Who determined that? You determined that >> I did. >> That's within the until otherwise >> until there's policy issu until there's
binding policy issued then it's it's within the clerk's office's purview. It's operational procedure. And after policy then the operational procedure would follow the policy but right now there's no policy on the matter
>> but the public cannot get to it. >> They can get to townm.gov >> they could they can >> only if they know your link >> only if they know the link >> and so are you publishing the link somewhere?
>> Not everywhere. We have had many requests where the number of response documents exceeds what Outlook allows to be attached directly. They have been sent the link to download the response documents directly from that location because Outlook physically couldn't
handle the size of documents. It has not been widely disseminated beyond the video of this need. No, >> that makes sense. I mean, you can't touch things by email. What's your pleasure? October November
5th, right? >> Yes. November 5th. But I make a motion that everything that's available there be private until um the select board develops policy. >> State your name.
>> Veronica Cal. >> Seconded. >> State your name. >> Valerie. Is there any further discussion on the motion? >> I'll note that a a motion to direct the town clerk's office to take certain actions is nonbinding.
>> Of course, >> absent mass general law. >> Okay. You can you can state that and >> state for the record and the board may vote as it pleases >> and we're just going to let you know how we feel. >> Fair enough. >> You're ready to vote?
Veronica could tell. Yes. >> No. >> I don't like you. If I may make a comment prior to your vote, I I will take the board's concerns and due consideration and apply the private marking liberally to ones that
may be of concern regardless of the outcome of the vote. That is the intent moving forward. >> Okay. I'm going to vote no and I'm going to trust you >> to do the right thing. >> And if there are particular ones of
concern to anyone in this room, whether those listening at home, please bring them to our attention. Maybe we all have different viewpoints. If something is subjectively construed in a particular way and it wasn't initially caught, please bring it to our attention and
that will be considered. Thank you. >> I'm going to visit you tomorrow. >> Yeah. um around 1:30. Are you here? >> I'll double check with you on the timing of that and confirm via email. Are you available any earlier by chance?
>> Maybe noon. >> Yeah, that that would work better. >> Okay. >> So, um because I >> I'd like you to explain to me a little bit more. >> Absolutely. >> And you can walk me through a few pull up on the computer screen and we can go through examples. Yeah.
>> Okay. And I'm happy to do that for either of you as well if you so helpful >> if you so desire. >> And we will intend to um view a policy on the 5th. >> Yeah. That'll be made available for you to consider.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. So, what we have left is >> So, if Harrison gets hit by a bus tomorrow, >> I'll speak to John
>> about to Jack and make sure he knows how to do this. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> We need to have guardian. >> Is he the bus driver? Um, you should have guardian probably have a little bit of control over. >> Hopefully you'll get them tomorrow.
>> Yep. >> Y um 4.6 is is the, you know, final omnibus budget here with the union non-union. >> And so we have that one and we have >> Facebook. That's it.
>> 417. >> Yep. the Facebook page. >> Correct. >> So, quickly, I asked for this to come on here and I'm just gonna ask you to look at the because we don't have
one and I don't know how to get one, but I thought we did have that it had been set up. >> It had been I I had so >> we have a a name. >> So, >> so where is it? >> It's on It's on Facebook. Let me just let me
>> Okay, then you took the lead. >> When I first started, I was wondering if the town had a Facebook page, so I I went and looked um searched for it. I looked at one and it looked really official. I was like, "Huh?" But I asked
Sabrina. She didn't know anything about it. But then um recently I asked um Harrison and it turns out it is the official page. No one has touched it in years. Eric Eric had Harrison set it up. Harrison was our web master at the time.
>> But but when you look at the page and I'll find it and I'll send it to whoever is interested. There's no content on it. There's, you know, I think the picture is like the common gazebo. It says, you know, town of Townsen. Um but there's no content there. There's no >> never put anything on.
>> There's no information to indicate that um it's an it's an official page. So it is out there. Um, but I think what we >> Who's the admin? >> I think it's still comparison >> and we need to write policy as to what goes on.
>> Okay, let's do that. >> Right. And that's one of the policies town council is revealing because without it um >> is that part of the media policy? >> I think it's the social media policy. >> Social media policy. Okay. So once we
have that up and running, I think we can um >> I mean Pepper has one, Ashby has one, they all have stuff they put on it. It's more like um the >> it's for information. >> The fire department has just informationational only >> fire and our police have
>> Yeah. And they'reformational only and the senior center >> and and that's how I envision ours. It's not a place to have discussions or Just another place to get put information out there. >> It's purely to put information out
there. >> Why I put it on here? >> Yeah. So once we have a social media policy in place, I think we can um have an official or an active >> All right. Very good. I can I can wait
for that. 4.6 review discuss final fiscal year omnibus budget reductions union and non-union. Now sent Chris. So, um you know, for the for the residents out
there, um when the override didn't pass back in, uh late July, um the town had to um um cut roughly $250,000
in salaries, wages, and benefits to come to a balanced budget. Um and since most of our employees are in the union, we would we have to bring them to the bargaining table to
to um propose cuts and for them to either accept it or come back with a counter proposal. Um uh I'm happy to report that you know in earlier in the month we did wrap up all the union negotiations.
Um and the reductions that were made on the union side were um the highway department would not fill a operator position
and in the land use office we would not be um hiring um someone to replace the the previous land use coordinator. So in a nutshell, that's kind of >> which is not what we wanted to do.
>> We would not have done that on our own. >> Well, nonetheless, >> suggested it. >> Well, nonetheless, that's what we kind of all agreed to. Um so, so in tonight's meeting, you know, we're in a goal. We're sort of um
top to bottom kind of the broad strokes of the changes that we've made to the omnibus budget to come up with the roughly $250,000 in uh cuts as well as um for you guys to just make it official um um signing
those you know um for the the highway department as well as the um for the land use coordinator. So, um maybe you guys can um consider each um
separately and then vote on it and then I can sort of go over um the the changes that were made in on this budget question. >> Yeah, so I'm confused. So this is in
addition to the rolling back the increases >> for the non-UN folks and that's part of my >> union negotiations. What what about any >> the union negotiations are done? >> They're done. >> So that's part of this conversation
>> issue >> and Nelson's going to go over everything. That's why I said don't say it's reduced because they're non union. But those roles would decrease anyway.
Um >> there there were many the non-union employees were very gracious and did not take their increases. that did not happen with the unions.
>> And you know, like I said, I will go over the summary. Um, but in the meantime, why don't we vote on the twous um for the unions and then we can uh work on the rest. Um, >> can you screen share them? >> The I have them here.
>> I have I have them. Do you want to read them? Should they be read into the record and then we can vote to sign them? No, I think >> I mean you could if you want to, but it's all legally stuff. Um, >> I can summarize the member a bigger room
between towns and um this would be the ask me and this is the supervisor union. Um the union and town have bargain and agreed to the following move layoffs. Um number one parties agree that the vacant position of land use coordinator will not be filled for
the 2026 fiscal year. union expressly acknowledged and agrees the town has satisfied its bargaining obligations after the failed two and a half. Um, and that's that's pretty much all for this supervisor union.
The rest is just legal terms. >> Motion. Um I move that we accept the memorandum of agreement between town of townsen and the American federation of state county and municipal employees um effective >> on supervisor's union
>> for the supervisor's union effective signing. >> Yep. >> Is there a second? >> No. Do we send out a session or do you want you have it? You have it right. Okay. Never mind. >> All right. Veronica second. Further discussion
>> hearing none will call vote. >> Veronica Kelly. Yes. >> Got to do it. Yes. >> Shern. Yes. Want me to do the highway now? Please. >> Um. Sorry. I just got to magnify it. I would make a motion that we accept the
memorandum of agreement between the town of Townsen and American Federation of State Council of Municipal Employees for the Highway Water Department effective immediately. Um, go ahead. Sorry. That's a motion. >> Is there a second? >> Oh, that was that was a motion. I
thought you were going to read the >> I want me to do it first. I'll do it first. So, the member move green between towns and and this is the highway water department. Um it essentially due to budget shortfalls bargained and agreed to following in the layoffs parties agreed that the vacant position of
highway equipment operator labor will not be filled to the 2026 year. Town has fulfilled its bargaining obligations and that's about it. So I would make a motion that we accept the memorandum of agreement. I sorry Valerie Goodrich make
a motion that you accept the memorandum of agreement between town of Townsen and Ane department. Um effective immediately >> second. Veronica Keel second. >> Thank you. Any further discussion?
Hearing none. Roll call vote. >> Veronica Kell. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Thank you very much. Nelson. Okay. Um, so
now, um, you want me to share the share the screen? Okay. Let me ask for permission from today is the 21st. for anything else. >> I don't think so. Thank you, Callie. >> Thank you,
[Music] >> thank you for being here, Jim. >> Thank you. >> Pass this up to One second. One page. Okay. [Music]
Okay, let's see if I can get that. Um, I think all of you should have shared account. >> Okay. Uh, all right. Let's start at the very top. Um, oh, I'm first. I want to
be first. Um, I, uh, if you recall, it was probably several meetings ago, I voluntarily decided not to take, um, a pay raise for this year. Um, I I do want
to say that the reason why you might see a a slight bump in um a lot of people's salaries versus the previous year was because we did not enact the um the the
pay freezes or rolling back until later in the fiscal year. So, a lot of folks did receive their raises or steps or increases probably for the first one or two months out of the fiscal year. Um, so that's why, you know, you might see a
discrepancy. >> The unions, they took them from day one and they have not stopped. >> Correct. Because there was no reductions for the active employees. So, for example, for me, you know, my my base rate in FY25 was my contract was
125,000, but you know, I didn't take I didn't um forego the pay raise until I think September 1st because we were still negotiating. So, that's why you see that number that number there is what you um
>> this is 135. That was what was um approved before Nelson came in. >> Oh yeah, that's right. >> Correct. But my my my contract was actually You're right. I'm sorry. >> Yep. Um so I took I decided to forego a
um pay raise and I think it amounted to about $5,200. Um, next in line, um, Sabrina, she, um, she was part of that wave of in a previous meeting where the non-union
folks did not take a, um, step or um, cola. So, um, she for the non-union folks and she's part of that, um, um, group of folks. Um, let me see here. Just like those in the library never
took it, right? >> Correct. >> From day one, they never took it. >> Thank you. Library. >> Um, let me see here. Um, for accounting, um, I I um decreased it
by a little bit because I think we might see some savings. Um, even though there might be some overlap between our current town accountant, CBIZ, and who uh we will ultimately hire
for the full-blown In-person town accountant. I think there's going to be some potential savings there because we're probably going to not necessarily start them at the top top end of the pay scale. Um, so I think there's some um additional savings there that um we
might be able to take advantage of. Um, where else? Um, down in the treasurer's office. Um, the treasurer had volunteered to not take um a $1,000 stipen that was not only per
their contract, but also um something that was voted on at town meeting. So, um I appreciate the treasure collector for going the $1,000 stipend >> again. Non-union,
>> right? Uh MIS salary technician that was part of the um non-union folks. Uh this was a stipen that it was this was a stipen. So um they did not get their um step in core.
>> Can you do this? Would you um give the number you're on? The line number that you're on. >> Sure, I can. Yeah, we're on number 106 right now. >> Okay. >> Um so yeah, that individual um
didn't get a step or cola. Again, um keep in mind, um they probably got it for July and August, but once September rolled around, a lot of folks >> $21. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, let me see what's next.
[Music] What's wrong with my computer? Let me see. Um on line 121, the assistant town clerk, the assistant town clerk did not
um see any reductions, but um I had to reduce that line because um when we were developing the budget um we were um we had the assistant town clerk at a at a higher step, but when the current
assistant town clerk got hired. They started out at a step one. So, there was some um savings there. So, I, you know, put those savings into the budget to, you know, for in order to for us to balance things.
Um, let's see what's next. So, now we're on line um 210. This is the uh the uh housing and grant administrator, a uh non-UN uh position. So, it's it was part of the
uh no step, no cola that the select board had agreed to. Um that was Karen, right? >> Correct. Yep. So >> yeah. >> Yep. And then
up facilities. So So that um concludes the general government functional segment in terms of the cuts that we made. >> The the facilities cuts had already happened. >> Correct. Yep. Correct. Um, now we're into public safety, the uh
police department. Um, let me see what grand total was. Um, yeah, there was a there was some savings there as well. Um,
Let me just pull up my uh my numbers here. Sorry, one second. My computer is slow as molasses. Sorry. Um, my computer is acting up at the worst time.
>> We can see it here. If you want to explain, >> doesn't look right to me. >> Um, just give me a just bear with me one second. I will Jesus. [Music] I'm getting there.
Okay. We're just taking a recess for a second. We're a question over here. Do I All [Music] right. You waiting for me? >> No, I I my computer was really slow, so I'm just trying to get back into the swing of things. Just um
>> So, I didn't miss anything. >> No. Um just excuse me. Just bear with me one second while I get this uh going. [Music] There you go. Um
so uh on the police side um the reductions was roughly $61,000. Um originally it was a little bit more than that. I think it was like 63 to 65, but we found we found some
additional savings in the building department, which I will get to in in a second because it's further down on the list. >> What number? >> Uh I'm around 257. >> Okay.
>> So, um the police chief um we we decided that um we would not hire a uh a new officer/cadet
um for this fiscal year. Um >> is that the 13 229? >> So it's 262 >> uh >> 261. >> Well, it's it's it's a combination of 259.
Um and a couple others. Um I think the uniform allowance as well as um >> overtime holiday training.
>> Yeah. So it it was a you know um a bunch of um miscellaneous items that total the 61,000 in in cuts. Let me uh try to bring up the screen again.
Okay, there we go. So, that was about 61,000 in uh in police cuts. Um it didn't affect anybody cuz they were not filling a vacancy, you know, um
from a a cadet in the academy. And then when you go down to a fire and we'll start with line 294 um as uh the police chief alluded to, I
mean the fire chief this evening, um he made some cuts to the assistant fire chief position as well as line uh which line 298
>> which is >> paramedics. >> Paramedics of 298. >> Not a good thing. >> Okay, it's just that. Okay, got it. Sorry. >> So, it was uh roughly 70 Wait, sorry. Wait. Yeah.
So, it was roughly $74,000 in cuts um from the police side. Um >> you're on fire. >> I I'm sorry. Fired. Yeah. And then um line 355 um the tea director that's
basically they call it a salary but it's really a stipen. It's a non-UN position that was part of the the roll backs that the select board agreed to recently.
And then you go down to Line 392, the stipen for the alternate building inspector. The um the building and the commissioner um made made a decision to um
basically no longer uh make use of the alternate build inspector unless um it was an absolute emergency. this individual was um you know came in on a regular basis um you know and certainly did do
inspections but um with with the with the budget issues the building the building commissioner um believes that you know he can handle everything um within his schedule and if
for whatever reason he was out um he would then uh call upon you know the alternate building inspector as a you know as needed basis. >> So there was some reduction there.
Um where else? Line 465 the um animal control officer that is a non-UN position um stipen essentially um part of the non-UN roll backs that
the select board have discussed. Um, line 475, the tree warden, a stipen. Again, that's a non-union position that the select board agreed to roll back. >> What are we going to do about
the rabies? >> That's the thing. >> That's the animal control um inspector. Um, >> do we have the money for that? I thought that was statemandated.
We have $1,200 um set aside for the animal, >> but she won't do it for that. >> Correct. The current animal control. >> Correct. We did actually receive a resume
recently, like maybe a few days ago. Um someone's actually lives in town and is in and is interested in the inspector position. So, I haven't had time to review the job application and resume yet, but if they are interested and if
they have the skill set, I think it's certainly worth exploring. But I haven't had chance to dive into it yet. >> Um, so, um, if they're willing to do it for $1,200, then, you know, I think
that's, uh, >> what's it posted at? >> 1,200. Well, they knew them, >> right? Uh I I I I haven't had the chance to re review their credentials yet. I don't know if they're >> maybe somebody new who's loves animals
or something and wants >> Well, I I I think you need to you need to have the experience or credentials or skill set to be able to do it. >> Um yeah, so we're on 475, the tree warden.
um uh you know stipen position then highway which starts at 513 line 513 um the select board earlier just voted to
not fill um the operator um position. So that would be captured in line um 514 operational staff. Um >> okay. >> So all the union personnel that are
staying, they all got the two plus two. All the union current union >> union >> correct. >> Yeah. >> Um now we're down to cemetery and parks. Um what was disc
what I had discussed with the cemeterian park superintendent who then brought it up with um you know the cemetery and parks um board was to um um
transfer some of the expenses out of the operating budget and into their um various trust funds and and cemetery revolving funds to be able to, you know, um pay for some of those expenses. And
that amounted to um approximately $8,100, which you will see um reflected in line 588. [Music] >> Okay. Um and that was voted
>> all of them are non-union but that that makeup is happening by the but so there is more it's just happening from different source. >> Excuse me. >> Can you explain that one more time? Um so
that line item um you know some of the salaries um will be as you can see it's been reduced. They haven't cut anyone. But what what's what will happen is um some of those
expenses will be absorbed by um some of their trust funds because the cemetery has various trust funds they can u make use of as well as revolving funds. Um and that's roughly about $8,100. And with that situation
um that will actually preserve their um FY26 rate. So, but Cemetery and Parks doesn't have any union employees. >> Um, no, they do. They they So, the superintendent is actually in the union
and I think technically this >> union I see that you >> and I think the the operating foreman even though it says non-union, I think that's actually a typo. >> He's in union now. Previously, it had been non-un, but he's in the union. >> He's in the highway union.
>> They Nobody's updated the spreadsheet. >> Yeah. So, I'll need to yeah >> change that. Um, but yeah, there are folks in the union in in the cemetery and parks >> uh department. Let's see. Um,
line 62. Um, that's the housing authority. Um, that's Karen. Um, you know, non-union. So he's gonna uh you know not see col6.
>> Mine it says you there just FYI. >> Oh sorry >> there's a you there. >> I need to change that. Yep. Um, Council on Aging. So that's line 666, the very auspicious
number. Um um it was decided that um a non-UN um part-time staff member um would not only be rolled back to FY25 but also have their hours reduced a little bit.
So I think it was they were currently working 15 hours a week. I think they're now down to nine hours to uh assist with the uh the budget. >> So that's really a non union person
instead of the union person. >> Yeah, that line has everyone mixed together actually. So mostly it is um >> union folks but uh there is a time non-union staff member um within that
line as well. That's Yeah, it's all locked. >> They should be separated out, don't you think? >> No, usually when it's just operational staff, it's all lumped in there.
Um, see, line 683. >> How many other places does that take place? >> Excuse me. How many other places does that take place where you have a line item that's union and non-un? >> Let me think. >> Nowhere else.
>> Um h that might be the only department that does that. >> Maybe next time separated. >> Well, the problem is they're all
operational staff. Um there's that those numbers next to it, those weird string of numbers >> that's for that's a predescribed number. So >> if you were to break it out then you would somehow need extra charge codes
which >> really So these are all about the same number here. You would just add another operational staff. I'm not going to probably get your community outreach person again.
and put non-union next to it. >> I what I what I can probably do is next go around we break it out, but it all feeds up to like one line. Okay. >> Cuz like I said, I we accounting wise
you can't you can't um >> start creating extra charge codes, you know, um like that. I can certainly explore um if that's possible, but >> Well, isn't the director and the operating staff? Aren't those the same
numbers or are they different? Oh, I see the one Z. >> Yeah, 5100 and 5110. That's what differentiates between, you know, those two. >> Oh, you can't just do another line and just put another 5110.
>> It would change >> for non-union. I mean on the BVA would just say 5110 operational staff, you know, so you can't distinguish um between the mostly union folks and
>> I don't see why because the union person has got whatever they do with the union and the non-UN person has nothing to do with the human. >> Yeah, but this bucket is just for operational
this bucket is just for operational staff. Um you know um >> um did we talk about line 683 veterans agent? That's a
non-union stipened position. So they also were part of the roll back. Um uh starting on line 698 library. Um I think we discussed this quite a bit. Um all the union st I mean the library
staff um decided to not take a pay raise for FY26. So, as you can see, um, both FY25 and 26 are the same exact number. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you, library. [Music] >> Um, let me see. I think the last and final one is um band concerts under culture and
recreation. uh we decided to um unfortunately take some additional money from band concerts. I don't know necessarily what it's going to mean for band concerts next June. I
have certainly um spoken to Betty May about it um given when I told her about it was early October. I'm hoping that gives her enough time to maybe um either uh do some fundraising
or maybe figure out if um if Memorial Day is, you know, under budget, you know, she can use the savings to, you know, pay for some concerts in June.
But um I think we took out roughly another $2,300 from uh band concerts in addition, you know, to what was taken out of before the the override. So, uh in a nutshell, that gets us to
the um a balanced budget. Um once you know I can now um have this um um posted on to the town's website so uh it's part >> you put the corrections on.
>> Yeah. Yep. I'll I'll make those slight changes and then um you know I can get it posted onto the website so people are aware of what the what the changes are. um and um
work with the town accountant to populate the rest of the um the budget so that now we can actually have a BVA that's fully populated with all the line items. So I plan to do that in the next couple
days. I already have some time scheduled with the town accountant to get that um squared away. >> So be good. So yeah, that that gets us get that gets us >> to the budget that we uh all agreed upon
at town meeting. Um, and it equates to a half% increase from last year, which is um it's incredible the the cuts we've made to to get to only a half a percent
increase when um you know certain budgets were you know you know 10 15% um you know uh insurance being a big one. And um
you know certainly the North Middle Sex uh you know amount was pretty um yeah pretty substantial as well. >> Questions from the board. Okay, let's go to our work session
5.1 administrative updates and reports. Um, so the TAM up contract. Um, I did talk to Bill Solomon who was on earlier. Um he did agree to represent the town in the TCAM contract
negotiations. Um there's really not a lot with this contract renewal. Um but nonetheless, we do need a a lawyer on our side to represent us and to review the contract.
And I believe Veronica mentioned he represented us in the 2020 TCAN renewal cycle. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, um he agreed to do it. So, I'm happy to have um Bill on board to uh represent
us. >> Um but as you heard earlier, he >> is that process to >> I don't know. I'll need to talk to him. He's probably has the same rate as what he charges now for the Comcast contract,
but I don't think it's going to be as um in extensive of >> right >> of of amount of work that he's >> probably just changing. >> Yeah. And changing a few things here and there. Um >> because nothing much has changed since 5
years ago, >> right? Um the only caveat is uh this contract cannot be executed until the Comcast one has been executed. And you you you heard Bill um it's probably going to be late
this year before the Comcast is completed. >> Um >> I tried to push for earlier. >> Right. I I was actually expired. >> I was actually surprised when he said uh you know late November into like December. Um I thought we were really
close to the finish line. Um but you know from what he tells me um Comcast is not going to suddenly just you know stop service and TAM is certainly not going to you know stop supporting um us as well. >> Understand that. That's still not a
contract. All right. Yeah. Well, it's it's going to be uh we're going to be out of contract pretty soon, but um I don't I don't think anyone is looking to uh you know, stop service for us. Um the Tritown update. Um
I think I mentioned earlier that you know we we had a meeting uh >> now you're going to add two towns. >> Yep. >> So it's not tri town. It's going to be No, you met with five versus three. Three was the first meeting. Five was
your second. Now you're going to have another one with seven. >> Correct. Yep. >> Regionals. >> Yeah. That sounds like a lot, but that could be really hard to coordinate. I'm sure it will be, but they have to explore. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. and and what we talked about at the U meeting on Monday between the five communities was we probably think it's going to start off smaller similar to how um the PREC model that set up it when it first when the first PRC uh
collaboration happened it was only Ashb and Pepper >> what's PRC >> yeah what's PRC >> that's the uh that's the Patriot um regional dispatch >> that's because We were already in the other one and we couldn't get out of it
until another year. >> Correct. Well, that is true. >> And so it's not because >> Well, but Dun but um Gran and Dunto came on after towns didn't sign on and it was probably because >> they had the same issue that we did as far as getting out of things.
>> Okay. Um well, you know, so >> you have to give a certain amount that like a year of there's a whole way to get out of it. So, >> um but you know, even um the the Patriot model um I I hear that um other
communities are interested in joining now that they've seen that it can work with five towns and you know they feel like they have the capacity and bandwidth to add on another community. So I think you know fire and EMS might
be you know could follow a similar model. you know, you start small, maybe three, four communities. Um, you know, get that going for a couple years, neighboring towns, see it works, and then they want to jump on, you know. So,
I think out of the seven that might be initially at the table, you may have a few drop off. Um, some communities that I won't name names um have suggested they might be sitting on the sidelines for the first go round because they just
they don't have the money to contribute to, you know, uh, regionalization at the moment. Um, I think as their um, finances improve, they might have enough money to come to the table, some resources.
I think the trick there too is to just in a previous conversation to realize how short it is on leadership and those types of things right now. So the potential for having combined leadership might be very critical in the future. >> Yeah, I think it's a good thing. I just
think that might make it complicated >> for so many towns. >> Yeah. >> That are so I mean getting to Littleton from here is a long way >> if if you're an emergency service. I don't think it's necessarily, at least from what I understand with Franklin, it's not necessarily that everybody does
that. It's more just leadership and administration versus like actual fire trucks and okay. >> So it's much more you know those like insurance billing and all that stuff that takes such overhead in fire EMS right now from what I understand at least what it was explained to me
>> that stuff you can get towns to come together for efficiencies the billing and all that those aspects of things. So, you know, um it's certainly a a good time to really explore because
Pek doesn't currently have a um fire chief. They just have they have um like a deputy chief who stepped up and is willing to be the interim for the time being. >> Um Ashby's fire chief is retiring next
January, February. And you know, I I I can't speak for the fire chief, but you know, um his contract is up in um the end of June 2027. And um you know, I mean, well, I mean, we're talking about his successor even
at the meeting earlier. So, you know, this might be a good time to, you know, explore. >> Oh, I think it's a good time. I definitely think it's a good time. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think and Graten had an a motion an override that failed regarding their fire EMS because of these
pressures >> just this past spring. >> Yeah, I think they were looking to add several >> just the financial pressures on fire EMS primarily. I mean, I think it was alluded to as the staffing, you know, can demand a place. So, >> yeah,
>> justifiably people aren't going into it. Right. >> I think the ground override was they explicitly asked for an additional four firefighters and the town voted it down. >> Good for them. What good is it going to do them?
>> Who's going to come? >> So, >> I mean, they're on 24/7. They have to have people that are on 24/7. Right. >> And if you're not going to go into
something like that, I mean, the people who are in it love it. They're not in it for the money. You can't be. You put your life on the line every time you go out, >> right? >> So, there's a cost to everything.
>> Yep. Um, so those are really the appreciable updates I have for the board. >> Okay. This time >> he's going to um reports. Um D, do you have anything?
>> I don't have anything this time. >> Veronica under >> um there there was a $32,000 communications grant that the um police received. it was on their
>> uh web uh Facebook page so you can see it announced there if you want >> for you know radios and things like that upgrading software and equipment. Um let me see I attended the MMA uh select
board meeting on the 10th of October and it was on the summit. I just emailed you guys the if you want to look at the it was fi fiscal management. >> Okay, fine. >> I couldn't go but yeah, >> it was it was pretty good. I mean it's it's not just Townsen that has issues
with the way schools are funded. >> Of course not. >> So anyway, um and it also there was a part on public engagement that was good. >> Um how do you get your overrides passed? Not that I am voting for any override
this year because I am not. >> You know, we either do it without, you know, I I am not in favor of an override for next year. >> So, >> we'll be eliminating some of positions. >> That's what we have to do. I mean,
people don't want to pay for it. >> Um, the only way I would do it is if it is for a specific purpose. Um so and then I would consider I guess I should never say never but anyway
>> so um uh the other thing is I had reported on the encroachment in Squanuk Meadows that it had been cleared and it was but we have new encroachment. There's a huge stone that was placed there without permission.
>> Um yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I um it's encroachment. You don't just go around and put stones on properties without um it being yours. >> Pardon me. >> You can put it on your own property.
>> Absolutely. You know, but um anyway, so you can see it if you drive over there and look at the soccer field. So, um, you know, we might want to think about how to
handle that because, you know, um, and that is probably it. I don't think I have anything else. Okay. So, um, let's see. under me. I um
you know assessors mentioned I haven't done much with them actually. >> Well, I did have one thing. No, I talked about last time how we both come. That was the only thing and we talked about it already. So, here never mind. Sure. >> Is that about the forms the forms and the budget process which I think
hopefully they all get on the same page and it will help with clarity. Yeah, that that would be my closest >> uh I've done historic district commission and they um so are not agreeing with the warrant
article that was there because they feel they already have oversight. >> Um >> do they I don't >> they have oversight to um it's they are supposed to work hand in hand. Okay. And most communities do
work hand in hand with the building inspector and there is nobody at the state that's going to come down to them, >> right? >> But and I guess they would work with um I guess they would go on the way they've
always gone on if issues were brought to them first. So the issue comes in when it hasn't been brought to the historic commission and they haven't
uh bless the issue by saying that it is like kind or if it's not like kind with like kind they have no issues. If the permit is for a like kind item like kind roof
>> like kind window window door. So, and then it goes then that certificate of appropriateness goes to the building inspector and then the building inspector can give a permit. So, not sure how long they're
going to do this or go on with it. they are going to I mean I've been telling them since last fall and you can implement a fine schedule a violation they're they're entitled to do that under the historic
commission to issue fines for for violations and >> and um they really have known that because the building inspector has issued um notices of violation to other owners in
town for signs in appropriate, either inappropriate or too many signs because you're only allowed two kind of thing. And they're repeat offenders. So, come up with a fee schedule and vote it in, implement it, and and you
advertise it. We've been talking about a postcard since last my first meeting. That hasn't worked yet as far as getting information out to people about what they do, what to expect, making sure that you send it to everyone in the historic district, letting them know
that they're in the historic district because sometimes people buy a house and they don't know. Anyway, so they're they're active. Um I miss the MPO meeting. Keep advisory
hasn't met for what happened tonight and town properties I understand has a full committee now. I don't know if they've all been sworn in but we haven't had a meeting yet. >> That I'd like to see happen so that we can recommend get I mean have another
auction, you know, as soon as we can to raise funds hopefully early next year. Um, I told you about the water department last night, the meeting, and I thought that that went well. Thought Todd
handled it very well. And that's all that I have right now. I'm going to ask you to do the announcements. There's two here. >> If you would recite them, >> that vacancy positions.
>> Yeah, we Okay. I I promised department heads that their vacancies would be so these are >> actually it's a little cut off but I think mine might be a little bit >> okay. Yes, >> not a problem. >> Yes.
>> So um we have the current board and committee vacancies. Um we have agricultural commission, board of water commissioners, central planning, commission on disability, conservation commission, energy committee, historic district, housing authority, housing
authority representative. Um kids country playground, someone has been appointed but has not been sworn in. So if that's you, come get sworn in. Meeting hall Gallery committee, again, someone was appointed but has not been sworn in, come get sworn in. Um, we need
members of recycling committee. Town properties committee has one vacancy. Is that correct? That you said that was filled. >> Town properties is now filled. >> Okay. >> To my knowledge, it was all filled. >> West Towns and Reading Room Committee planning board of appeals vacancy for a
full member. I'm sorry, zoning board of appeals vacancy for full member. Zoning board appeals vacancy um for another full member. >> Yes, there's um two two full and one associate. So then associate
>> and reminder you can do the senior tax work >> and emergency management volunteer election worker >> and project driven opportunities. Those are all available.
>> You can look on the website. Would you like to read the letter? And so in correspondence we have a letter dated October 13th from T Shepard. Okay. Um
to the honorable psych board. On October 10th, 2025 at 4:10 p.m. a 911 call was received and dispatched for possible building fire at 277 Main Street. Further updates provided as the crews were assembled and in route provided information that there was an occupant within the building. First arriving
company was 30 engine one two minutes and 9 seconds after dispatch situ situational update stated smoke showing across the front of the building. All doors were locked and penetration was made. The initial attack encountered obstacles which forced a regroup and attack was made through a
garage door with deteriorating conditions. There was no visibility from ceiling to floor and heat was increasing. Initial attack comprised of Captain Maro Patuchi C4 and Christopher Reagan A5 and Drew Brousard P15 pump
operator. Second due was Townsen's ladder 30 L1. The ladder company assigned initiated a primary search of the building with firefighter Sam Buglio sorry Sam F23 in the lead position and backing him up in second position deputy
chief Brett King C2. Third position, Lieutenant Rich Carlson,07. The crew initiated and conducted a successful primary search in accordance with the department protocols and SOP. Firefighter Buglio F23 in the lead with
a TIC camera reached the second room and identified it by the floor. He noted his notified his other two partners in a successful grab of the building. Occupant was executed as they exit the building the moving and move the victim to a safe area outside the potential collapse zone. What other protocols
elevated the rescue effort in instinctive training had personnel shift in positions to provide the highest level of care possible on fire ground? Retired firefighter Lieutenant Greg Shepard Company 3 and firefighter Dwayne Kraton Company 1 notished as spectators
the sensitivity and nature of what was being performed. Retrieve a salvage cover and built the visible barrier to provide dignity to the victim as aggressive life-saving tactics were performed. At 4:25, it was cured that CPR was in progress less than 14 minutes after the initial call. Crews had
penetrated a lock building, performed a successful rescue, and full fire suppression tactics were employed. Firefighter paramedic Thomas Hall, P one, heard the call and returned to work and arrived to assist firefighter paramedic Drew Bassar, P15, at the ALS level. The patient was loaded into
Brookline in New Hampshire's mutual aid ambulance and sent to the landing zone where lifelight helicopter was waiting behind Spalding School. The patient was transferred and flown to US Worester. As of this narrative, the victim is man Massachusetts General Hospital Boston burn unit and the fire successfully
controlled to protect life and property as is our mission. All these individuals deserve commendation along with our mutual aid partners for effectively contributing to this incident. Sincerely, Gary Shepard to our department. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, and I do agree that they all
deserve accommodation. Um not sure how we do that if we do that in any other way. But I will tell you from I was in the area um or approaching it when all this was happening. I was coming from Lunenburgg
and for the time that I was in my office I had a scanner and I heard it it wasn't just the fire department. It was the highway department. It was the police department and it was the water department. They were all involved because of that for their own specific
duties. >> You know, police directing traffic, the water department because of the water manes, something was going on there. Um, and highway, I saw highway there, but I think highway was more like sometimes they help with moving things, you know.
So I mean it it took all the departments >> or it would have burned to the ground. The whole thing would have burned to the ground. Okay. So next we have our next meeting. I'm actually going to be the next two. November 5th, 2025 and
November 19th, 2025. I will tell you 6 pm now for both of them. But that doesn't mean that the time isn't going to change before we do the posting >> because that happens regularly
and I will entertain a motion for 5.5. Uh I make a motion to review and sign payroll and those payable warrants out of session. >> Second for Kelly. Okay. Any discussion hearing? None. Roll call vote. Veronica
I >> and Laura Shiff. Thank you all very much for attending this evening.