##VIDEO ID:3IoDlUcoUA4## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good morning can everybody hear me good morning now can you hear me is it playing yes is is rolling along um and and that we're going to be uh uh beneficial or it's going to be beneficial to us and uh so we uh we decided we'd take the extra 30 minutes to make sure we had it right so um we're going to start this morning I think that we have everybody here now give me one second okay if we would all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge aliance to the FL of the United States of America and to the for it stands na indivisible withy and jusice let's get the party started see clerk roll call please commissioner Toth here commissioner Min here vice mayor Dicky here mayor doctor here all right we have a couple of things to talk about this morning the uh the first is the discussion and action items with public comments uh on the discussion uh so this is on the direction of the permit issuance options one options two um with or without substantial damage assessments so city manager please thank you mayor mayor doctor and commissioner before you this morning staff is seeking your direction in relation to the option communities have about how substantial determinations are completed as our community has been significantly impacted by two hurricanes items have been discussed previously and referred to as option one and option two with both options requiring substantial damage determinations to be completed after conferring with federal state county and other previously affected communities staff was working under a hybrid model of taking in permits and Performing substantial damage assessments where the substantial damage assessments were being performed while the city was accepting permit applications on Tuesday of this week we had three teams of two on the ground performing those inspections and they were doing about a 100 to 110 properties a day they did that for two days as of as of Thursday excuse me we had 12 teams of two on the ground performing those inspections we did receive the missions and the individuals we needed on the ground in reinforcements to perform those inspections so we are four-fold from where we were the other day but while the pace of the assessments has increased the community members can still cannot return to their homes or repair their homes to prorm conditions this is where staff is seeking guidance from the commission as to allow permits to be issued without the inspections being completed while this may allow for quicker return to the home for residents this comes at a RIS to both the city and the property owners fima will come to audit our Disaster Response because the entire city is in a special flood Hazard area and is C covered under the national flood insurance program if they determine that the city did not follow the steps to provide substantial damage determinations to the homeowner at the proper time the city could lose nfip coverage individuals could find difficulty in obtaining mortgages or refinancing those mortgages their could be an increased cost in flood insurance and it could affect the ability for a homeowner to refinance their mortgage excuse me I stated that before also at Jeopardy if we were to lose the national flood insurance program is the federal assistance that is provided to communities after disaster strike this is not meant as a scare tactic and I'm just raising the concern and the caution because what comes with issuing permits before substantial damage determinations could be completed we have 450 permits you know permits that were taken in under option two and what we're doing is we're prioritizing those permits with the in that four-fold increase we have in the inspections going on on the ground we've got 720 inspections as of yesterday completed out of the 2200 residential structures the individuals who are out doing the inspections are working on Saturday and today to continue those so if you do the math we are significantly increasing those number of inspections what we need to have a determination from the commission on is a discussion first and any questions that could be asked having to do in relation to how permits are processed within the city the internal permitting review process and also so the commission is aware how the information is provided from the field inspectors back to the county and how it gets to the city so what I would like to ask is for director yunan to come up and to speak to those items specifically good morning Commissioners and mayor the question was um what is the process once we uh get the data from the inspections so once a week the city anticipates getting the data this is in the agreement with the contractor that's out doing the work these teams are from the state division of Emergency Management and a consulting firm so the this data comes back to the city the city has the ultimate responsibility for making these determinations so these will come back to us in a large trunk we have committed to everybody that has a permit that they will be reviewed first uh and so we pull the ones with permits out of this queue of information and send out those determination letters and put their permit into the normal review process normal review is depends on what the work is if the work is all interior it's typically building there's no zoning there will be a flood plane review from the financial aspects of the permit and there right now is a substantial damage determin ation is the first in first review on each one of these permits so all of the ones that are determined not substantially damaged will be released to go through the process when the permit is complete the homeowner or contractor or whoever's on the permit with their contact information will receive an email saying the permit's complete they can pick it up digitally through our op system or they can come in and get the actual placard to put on their property showing that they have permit we anticipate having this information next week staff will have to go through each one of these determinations and send it out it should be a fairly quick process we just need to ensure that there's not open permits or other things that would affect that letter we have um one very unfortunate group of condo owners that had damage from Debbie Helen and Milton so there are some really unique situations out there so if I could May so director what you're saying is basically the individuals who are in the field they input that information to the county but it's made available to the city and we have to take that information in the substantial damage estimator correct because that includes other data such as value of the structure Etc and some other pieces in there flood plan verification and such and then that is done then a substantial damage excuse me determination is completed what I what I mentioned Mar and what I alluded or you alluded to earlier and I forgot to mention was that we received information from the county last night which could definitely affect a majority of these 450 permits we already have the county has just released some information that we're just in the process of taking a look at that will affect anyone who is looking to have drywall replacement if they've received 12 in or less of water that has been in scw it into their structure so they are providing other options to loosen the requirements for permits so we're trying to figure out how to make sure that that guidance which will make it simpler for the homeowner can be of benefit okay do you have anything else or can we uh ask a few questions you can ask a few questions I want to answer a question you had for me earlier okay um we have received since we opened uh under the building before we came back to the building 492 permits uh 264 of those are um to remove drywall flooring baseboards that kind of um demo those permits are no charge because of the fee waiver that the commission passed uh and those as soon as they're determined non sub that they're not substantially damaged those permits will go immediately out so about half half the permits we have little more are U permits that could be immediately processed okay when you say immediately uh do you mean today so as soon as we make that sub a determination that a structure is not substantially damaged that will go into our Integra permitting system that permit does not require refu for by building zoning or anyone else at that point and is simply issued by the perit tax I just want to not immediately like in 5 seconds but very as soon as we make that determination we talking about today if if thank you yes thank you go ahead M um is substantial damage determined by the estimator so what how this works is there is an what's called an estimator tool and they go in and they see 75% of the drywalls damaged uh 5% of the windows x% of this this this this and it comes up with a number and those numbers have value and I'm happy to share all these tools you know publicly I can give everybody a link to these tools they're online so uh basically it goes through a financial calculation versus the Property Appraiser's uh value in the FEMA wlm letter okay two variations on that theme one is is how does a resident interject their own appraisal so how that works is these letters are going to go ahead and be sent out there will be in the same letter what is called a re-evaluation or reassessment all they have to do is apply with whatever other information they have they may have photos they may have invoices for materials they may have you know other things that show that that could be re re-evaluated would that that's where that private cash value appraisal comes in um okay two issues here one is if I have drywall damage and I have a contractor come in and the contractor is willing to sign an affidavit that says it's going to take X number of dollars to replace this replace this it's actually he fills out a what is called a FEMA cost breakdown worksheet where he itemizes the items in this is normal procedure that we do on every permit all the time fills out this cost breakdown worksheet and it will tell you the value of this the value of this the value of that okay can I substitute that in then for the estimator now the estimator is coming up with a number that it's going to cost that's that's the re reassessment part of it that's the step two basically the city makes that sends out that determination based on the data that we have and then the reassessment comes in with the US usual stuff that comes in with a permit their cost estimates their um photos maybe you know the estimator said you had two feet of water and you had one foot and you can show that maybe uh you have a cash value appraisal that says my house is the 50% value is not 100 it's 150 whatever evidence substantial evidence that they have is considered okay so those two the contractor's cost estimate and the assessors the appraisers substitute or their own appraisal yes um those are two separate items but they come together yes I'm sorry Corey could you please take the call outside thank you and that gets submitted to the building department yes yes okay and what's the review process please so when that comes in um what we we go through the financial analysis that we do on any permit once again we'll look at all those new factors just like we do on any normal permitting process okay so how often are we receiving or giving the uh the data or receiving the data from the county so they have committed to sending the data once a week this is a program that's being used um Statewide by the Florida Division of Emergency Management this contractor was actually through the county and is with uh Treasure Island and 15 other municipalities in pinelis County doing the same process so we are limited by the information that we're receiving from the county are transmitting to the county uh because it's on a weekly basis yes but to be honest once these start coming in uh even with our supplemental staff and the supplemental staff we're still seeking we have to have time to process them anyway so once that first initial one comes up we're going to have a hard time keeping up with these 500 700 900 of these coming in a week so it's going to be a constant flow but we are bringing in additional folks to do this correct yes do we have a a head count we have um six now and looking for we have missions in for four more uh in talking with the county it was yesterday uh they have suggested teams that also include uh property appraisers so we're going to see if we can uh request some of those as well and mayor I've got a separate request I'm working through legislative channels to uh to mimic those same numbers on top of that okay would rather have too many requests in for too many people than not enough okay I'm working that through another Channel and if I'm correct uh the the term missions basically means we made a request correct yes okay this is not per se a mission this is a work through legislative channels okay commissioner to anything um I have a lot of concerns with multif family and when they can get into their homes too and get getting their permits issued and do we have also a list of multifam and houses that are FEMA compliant that doesn't apply to sorry sry didn't mean to interrupt you yes um that is our first pass is going through all of the structures and trying to pull out all the female compliant ones working um through our list of ECS that we have on file so we have elevation certificates for the as they're called post for firm structures so we have to ensure that they are still FEMA compliant they may have been compliant when they were built we want to make sure they're still compliant today but Treasure Island is in a fairly unique position in that our flood zones went down approximately 2 feet two years ago so we are what we're seeing so far is very positive that if they were FEMA compliant when built most of them are still femo compliance okay so the ones with the minimal damage and the flooring dry wall things can kind of like from the letter I'm getting from the county from the information then they could probably get processed quickly yes yes the FEMA comp buildings we're pulling those out so that those can go ahead okay and then we do have supplemental staff coming correct besides the ones we have okay is I'm sorry I was taking a note yes commissioner we do have requests in for other staff to come in to Bol for our staff you know and if everything works out then we're going to run two shifts we're going to run a day shift and a night shift oh okay if and if we can get the staff that's that's needed and get them trained we'll be able to have multiple staffs operating to process these permits okay do we have a number of how many houses we've inspected so far how far along we are roughly 700 and we have how many three days so we have roughly 2200 residential structures so we're about a third of the way through and if I could add in commissioner yet and that was when we had three teams of two for two days they were doing about 100 to 105 a day you know and then we got 12 teams of two y excuse me so we went from three teams to 12 teams of two which is why we've jumped up to that I think it's 720 cther to be exact on the number of structures have that have been inspected and they're working through the weekend they working Saturday they're not working Sunday so where do you expect it will be maybe like Monday Tuesday Treasure Island well say C no I'm I don't want to put that out there okay thank I can't control that okay I was just curious as far as what our projected completion of the initial assessments would be you could do math and say we've got a third done now and if they're doing you know three to 400 a day you know we could have that if you use 400 as a number you know we could have that done in four or five days max you we give you 1600 on top of the 700 that gives you 23 I think that goes a lot into decision making process that and just to uh clarify basically um we have everything that we're doing has to go up to the county and are we accountable at a state level as well as a county level for for the information and the city is accountable for substantial damage determination okay and and the recommendation from FEMA is that these inspections occur okay but I'm looking at their process that we have with this is the preferred method from FEMA okay please yeah yeah let's yeah please let's uh let's we'll have an opportunity for everybody to speak um so okay I I what I want to really clarify is though that we can't do everything on our own here we're working with the county with this group of 22 or 28 inputs and um yes the county has a team of approximately 75 they're trying to get it I believe up to 100 assessors and they have 25 inputs they're trying to get that up to 35 right now okay uh but we are looks like getting a very large share of the team so great yeah what I wanted to EMP there is that uh that we are building upon what we have and that we will have you know the inspections we're going to continue to do inspections because every one of those buildings whether or not we do the uh uh determination before the inspection every one of those uh is is going to have to be inspected and uh and that we believe will be done midweek mid next week uh because right now we're we're seeing it uh at about 4 to 500 today uh since we ramped up with the uh the 12 and uh and we feel good about that and and we're still though going to only have one day per week that we're going to be able to give the data uh I guess it's we give the data up to the county and then it comes back to us or the county sends it to us once uh because they're doing input so they send it to us once a week actually the consultant is doing the input so I'm not quite sure if it comes from the C through the county to us or just directly to us but it once a week time yes okay does anybody have any other questions on uh just in general discussion here before we move on my I have a Sten more than a question uh and Chuck you mentioned about options one and options two and you also talked about uh the concern about option two in terms of making sure that we do everything FEMA requires so that we don't put ourselves at risk of losing nfip coverage and FEMA financial support in the event of future incidents both options one and option two are FEMA options and FEMA uh so so we're not going against any FEMA guidelines if we choose option one or option two is that correct correct okay thank you uh question Katherine um let's walk through um a homeowner who has an inspection done yes okay and it from there goes into the determination dead into that algorithm yes there's actually paper forms online that I can show you but basically it's a it's an application an app that does the same things on a computer so it takes all the numbers it takes the values from the property appraiser it takes all the numbers of the percent damage of U like 10 or 15 components of the building and puts that information in takes in the waterline level um whatever other data is we have or is perceivable we have um the water lines on pretty much all of the structures from our residential all of the residential structures from our residential damage assessment which is what staff was doing for the days between Helen and Milton and then for 10 days afterwards was going around and doing unsafe structures as well as finishing the preliminary damage assessment preliminary damage assessment is different that is done to bring resources that is done to for the information goes through the county to FEMA to you know say we need help so that has a different purpose but we do have recorded water lines on residential structures from that okay so from that point where this data is input what happens next so the data is input into the um it's called the substantial damage estimator tool it's input into that tool then uh internally the consultant goes through a QA process make sure everything is correct then they go through a QC process um and then uh they go through a determination process and so that is the financial that's adding the financial piece to the damage piece okay and and so at that point a determination is made by the software okay then that information is given to the city and the city just ground TRS that that we don't have some conflicting information permits on file anything else we already have you know uh EC that shows the building is FEMA compliant or any you know any other thing that would make that not true and then the city will issue the letters to the homeowners the city does not have people's email and phone so these have to go out by mail except for the people that have applied for a permit we do have their contact so we are going to email them as soon as we get those letters okay so the time frame between the field determination is made and the time that a resident receives the letter is how much uh um we're going to get data once a week we're going to as Chuck mentions staff up as much as we can we're working as hard as we can to get as many people trained and ready to go uh so I'm assuming and I haven't done this yet so I can't promise you anything that we could do a 100 a day going out of here maybe better once we get rolling and I think commissioner if I could part of it does it depends upon the type of permit that's applied for yes know there's some permits that like drywall alone that are much simpler to do you know we were doing a quick calculation upstairs after receiving the county data and if we've got 450 permits I think there was 20 Katherine correct me on the number 264 296 that were relating to you know we have um 492 permits and 264 are drywall and drywall removal and baseboard removal so those can be issued right away correct soon as a subst they're not substantially damaged okay so the amount of time then is what would you say for to get a permit after the substantial damage determination so in our software we have um steps of review so as soon as it's released from substantial damage inspection it goes to simultaneously building Zone and flood plane if needed depends what it is um if it if the only permit somebody has is a drywall permit that is certainly not going to be substantial but we want people to understand that they if they need to know if they're substantially damaged or not before they continue to spend money on their property well they need to know if they're substantially damaged before they get a permit isn't that correct yes and that's why we are doing the substantial damage determination okay um now I get my determination and I get my letter and I don't like it yes um the appeal process the appeal process okay please explain certainly we are going to come up with a form that make it a little easier for people and it basically says I would like a re-evaluation or reassessment of my uh substantial damage determination and we're going to make it easy with checkboxes I have photos I have have an estimate I have a private appraisal I have and there's several other things that'll be on there MH and they will be attached to that form that'll be submitted to the city that'll go to the flood plane manager for review which is you technically Jesse Miller is our flood plane manager but he is on FMLA leave and we'll be back next week and we cannot wait but we do have an interim person here um that was sent as one of the teams from the state and they have been the flood plane manager in Bowmont Texas so they are very familiar with this scenario okay so can you approximate the amount of time then between we don't know how many we're going to have no I just I would say if we had one it would probably take a half hour review okay so if I get my my determination I don't like it I give you all the information on that checklist yes and you get it and we will make a redetermination as okay and that amount of time is pretty quick you're saying okay yes unless we get 2200 of those well you you may get quite a few I do know I have a lot of people that want to either raise their house or demo so they are probably not going to want a reassessment okay but I'm speaking from experience um the number you get from the county property uh is a low ball um and so if you're going to have your own appraiser come in and do that that's going to going to be substantially different as our experience yes yeah but that but the only way that enters into the equation is if you go to appeal the determination that you additionally make correct yes that is correct okay I just want to outline the process for the folks so that if uh if you start at a and you want to get to Z yeah all the uh interpretations in between like to point out too that the property appraiser has at the bottom of that letter an appeal process to them as well if you have evidence of other improvements that haven't been Incorporated yet for instance we close out a permit we send the reports to the property appraiser once a month but there's a lag time before your closed permit will reflect in their data so there may be situations like that where you've got something very easy to show okay so assuming everything runs smoothly uh and there's no appeal what's the time frame involved within the city to get a permit so it depends what the permit is for oh drywall drywall drywall um that would only be building review and so probably three days is that installation or REM removal of drywall as I stated earlier um does not need right an inspection the inspection is to put it back yeah okay thank you with people that have already done an independent inspection can we add something like a little form on the front when they put their permits in that they may have a um contested value so that way you have a flag on it already when they put the permits in just like a little they are coming in for a reassessment that they've asked for a reassessment no that they've already had an inde independent appraisal on their property if people already have done that oh yes that would just come in with the permit and with go in with the normal flood plane review okay it's it's already marked on there for people that okay thank you wasn't sure about that right I know I mentioned this last time we talked about this but uh because we're talking about the re-evaluation um we are going to have a team that is going to help walk people through the process so that they're not in the dark when they get here they're they're you know wanting to be re-evaluated and part of that process is getting a private appraisal and all all of that but I just want to make sure that the team is there to direct the people through the process and they're just not walking in blind and and being bumped from one table to another table no we are we we will set up a additional table in our lobby permitting Loop for evaluations great got there let me take a look at uh at going through option one and option two so option one basically says it's that 2200 folks that we're going to be out there inspecting and that uh we have to do in option one we're going to do a assessment and uh but we don't have any any I mean we have the addresses and the names but these folks have not been seeking a permit for the most part we had as of last night 492 permits so I would say no 2200 okay so the the 492 then is option two and those are the folks that are looking for some activity on their permit and getting those out the door as quickly as we can because we want to get back in our homes and we want to rebuild the city so uh so let's move on to I think what everybody is looking for and that is this option two and what can we do with option two and I think that uh that our city manager uh basically talked a little bit about the liability and and about you know that it's uh puts us as the city in in play as far as uh what we're saying we can do and it puts the the homeowner kind of in in some Li AB ility as well because the homeowner has to provide certain things and um and that that that plays that plays into it you know when I say that it says that okay when you go in with an affidavit and you got your contractor and he says hey I put in cabinets and I put in you know everything in the kitchen well that's not that you know at that point he can sign it but that's not appropriate and it's probably going to get the homeowner as well as potentially uh the city in trouble because you got to bring in the entire package not just the kitchen and uh you know so all the damages that are there when it goes to that process or what we're doing with with option two and talking about doing with option two is that it has to be the bundle and has to be there because we have not made the assessment at that point but we're looking at doing the uh determination uh now ultimately all these properties are going to have an assessment done but uh you know we're moving quickly and trying to move quickly uh by doing the uh taking a look at option two um what I would like to hear from the uh the commission today is uh the direction that we want to move and uh this is not anything that uh that requires a motion but it is a direction from the commission that basically uh tells our city manager and his staff uh what direction we're going to take and so uh I'd like to hear the thoughts about uh option one option two can play together in the same uh in the same ballpark but option two the the big difference here is that uh there may not in some cases or most cases whatever there may not be a determination uh or there is a determination made before the inspection is is out there the assessment so can I hear from the commission sure I I I have felt all along that option two was was better for the community it allows them to begin the work on their on their repairs uh immediately but they do need to understand and I had suggested this to uh uh the City attorney uh yesterday that we have some kind of affidavit that the resident will sign saying that that yes they are aware if they proceed ceed with the work that if their houses later to determin to be substantial damag that it's possible that any money they spent up to that point could have been wasted money so so I think that just really applies to the people that are on the bubble I think most most of the people most of those permits that we're seeing right now probably are well within the 50% Rule and we can move forward on those so uh the the uh it looks like the city and the state the county everybody's doing what they what they can do to expedite the inspection process and the but it's still it's still a slow process we got we've got another few days before all the uh uh field inspections take place we've got a week before they send us the information it's going to take us we can only do even though they give us 700 inspections in one day we'll only be able to do a process a hundred of them a day so that's we're still talking about if we do option one it could take weeks before some somebody could begin work on on replacing drywall in their house so I'm in favor of doing option two uh to allow people to begin that work but everybody needs to understand that every structure will be uh inspected and will be assess so if you're on the bubble you need to you need to proceed more much more cautiously than if you're not commissioner min please uh I'd like to hear from our City attorney as to the risks involved in option one and option two certainly so um I mean as you've heard I think from City staff is that they're going to continue with option one um and that every property will be assessed the question with regard to whether or not you proceed with option two um you heard from the FEMA uh the woman from FEMA that you could go with option two you also heard from the woman with FEMA that she said that um the city had chosen to do substantial damage assessments by collecting data and that was a good way to protect themselves from liability issues and I think she cited several examples where she had said you know when you took in permits and people had signed affidavits um they hadn't necessarily shown everything on the affidavit and then it was subsequently found out and that put both the community and that individual property owner in a very tenuous position um and you saw that you're seeing that in many of the southwest Florida communities um that have received letters from FEMA um for and I'm not saying it's only because of option two but I'm just saying for not following all of the regulations that they they were required to follow so is option two something that's allowable under FEMA I think she was clear in saying that it is is um but not without you just understanding that there are some risks so what could those risks look like um I can tell you that in our code it says that we're going to apply um our code our flood plane management and that if it there is something that's not in compliance we're going to proceed with code enforcement to try to bring them into compliance and ultimately they could be reported to the FIP and be pulled out of that program what that would mean and we've actually um I can tell you in non-emergency situations um we've had a homeowner who asked about that like what if I get pulled out of inip what does that really mean and hired an attorney to look into it um and what they found out was that it would make it so that that property um just couldn't have a federally backed mortgage that required flood insurance that was one of the issues with that property now that homeowner decided to deal with that property differently was not pulled out of nfip but that's one of the possibilities as far as the city the other position and this isn't as much a a legal consideration is just a consideration for you all is these residents have obviously gone through a lot and if they're going and they're building back and then they're let's say they're close okay to that 50% and it's determined they've gotten these permits and it's determined that they have and now the city's in the position where we're required to enforce against somebody who has already been significantly damaged so I just from the human element of that kind of want to put that in your mind as well um that's why I think what you see with the county is the county is looking at um do like a certain threshold you know like you heard the city manager talking about um 12 in I think part of why they're looking at doing that and allowing that instead of um I think without the assessment is that they're judging whether or not that's ever going to topple close to that 50% so I think they're looking at maybe we'll say doing the option two for the um lower level uh repairs that aren't even going to come close to that so they're not in that awkward position of of potentially having residents make um a significant mistake um so for the city um I can tell you that going option two you're going to be scrutinized somewhat more in the audit um I think you also um may have heard some of that from the the FEMA provider and um I will tell you that there is a a guidance document um with regards um that's put out by FEMA and it's called the public assistance companion guide Disaster Recovery relief reform section 126 and in it it doesn't mandate it says the moment you know that that the moment it's safe to you should go out and collect the SD assessments substantial damage assessments of the flood Blane to assess all damage structure this includes field survey inspections data collection document impacts next you do the determinations so in their guidance as far as what's ideal and I understand you're judging what's ideal versus you know how you can help folks but what's ideal is to do those determinations so you have that done you have the best information um in making your determination and you put people in the in the best position so with that um I just wanted to make you aware of that guidance like I said it says should um it doesn't say you have to um but it is their guidance on you being reimbursed for cost and so certainly in an audit process if they find that you're not compliant there could be questions as to whether or not they're going to fully reimburse you for cost um and then the other um potential um hazards are if somebody you know tips over that 50% how the damage that they could incur so in this process um the contractors affidavit saying that uh these repairs are going to cost X um is in contrast with what the county or the the assessor no excuse me the inspector feeds into the algorithm right okay and if you don't like it you can appeal right right yes yep you can come in for a consideration and and I'll let you know even with um substantial Improvement determinations like when we're not in a damage uh Arena um when people were doing trying to do substantial improvements to their home that was part of the assess that what was done at that time was um you would make a substantial determination and sometimes they would appeal or ask for reconsideration because they had additional information so it's not uncommon for City staff to look at that information and make that determination I think that's part of the normal process that's right yeah that they referred to um but within that normal process uh we've got a now a ringer thrown in uh to this that uh you know I sympathize with you folks I don't know what the clear guidance is to walk through that um it's not clear to me so um does a person does a homeowner uh who chooses to go ahead with option let's say the commission said option too and the homeowners then are in line to get their permits okay and then the work is done and it's signed off on okay is everyone still subject to FEMA coming back in and reviewing all that yes okay that's part of the auditing process y commissioner to um I'm leaning towards option two with the affidavit like vice mayor Dicky said with making sure that we have that on file um I'm really worried about future uh where this leaves our Island our community in the future if we have gone over the limits and then we lose our national flood for people that are buying in in the future and can't get flood insurance I'm really scared about that as far as making sure our residents are protected um but I am leaning towards option two and making sure that we have documentation and affidavits as commission um vice mayor dicki suggested I don't know what else to say I'd like to get the permits out i' like to see people in their homes because it's our community okay I'm going to uh to kind of call the question here we like I said this is not a something we take and do as a motion uh but it is the direction from the commission to the staff um and uh and that's uh what we would intend to have happen and uh and if not then we would be talking um so I'd like to do uh we'll start with U commissioner Toth on uh whether or not we move forward on on the uh on the public or public comment will be coming but uh at this point like I said we're not really doing a motion or anything else we'll have public comment and but I want to take and see where the commission is and then I want to uh address one additional issue and then we'll go to public comment so let's first start with uh commissioner to and uh which way are you uh I just said I'm leaning towards option option the affidavit and further documentation that okay they know what they're getting into commissioner Dicky option two commissioner minning well I'm going to withhold right now because I'd like to hear from the crowd uh I'd like to hear what the Public's input is and I think that's a a very um com uh what I want to say strong component uh of how the commission should respond so that's that's where I am okay mayor doctor um I I am definitely uh moving towards uh two the the option and which basically so what it basically says that's going to happen is that the option is going to uh option one is going to continue to move forward we're going to be continuing to do those assessments option two basically says that we're ultimately you'll have a assessment done but it could be after the the determination um I I see our attorney looking okay so after determination um but here's the bigger issue is that at the pace that we are at right now we will have all of our uh assessments done on all the properties by mid next week the bigger issue now is this that we can only get uh through put for a 100 um permits per day and uh and that's my concern because that is what's going to take the time it's not going to be the actual assessment so is there a way um Chuck city manager is there a way for us to get enough headcount don't worry about the cost if if we can get enough headcount and get those knocked out in 3 days 4 days 10 days but not carry out out through three weeks or three and a half weeks when you say head count you mean additional staff additional staff correct and I'm I'm texting right now with um my contact for the legislative action to help out to assist with that with existing staff taking in the permits and processing that you know we can't do that we need the outside help so going back through the missions that have been requested through the county and the state and the other the other avenues we're undertaking I will keep you updated as I get responses back on both of those Avenues okay yeah because I know we've had a discussion that uh you know the cost is not our concern at this point um and what we need to do is that I think the whole commission would say as the quicker that we can get this done the better off it is for everybody got it regardless cost okay yep all right uh does the commission have anything else to say okay so we will take uh public uh input here and first would be Clyde Smith good morning thank you for your time this morning um I want to comment on both excuse me personal and business as a business owner here on the island and I haven't heard any talk about how the process is going to go for the businesses so I'd be very interested in that but from the personal standpoint um my home did get flooded more than 12 Ines I don't know if anyone on Treasure Island that did didn't have at least 12 Ines on their first level so that part of the discussion is interesting but we had a contractor lined up on the 27th of September and you know we had to take action or we have to take action and here we are in November and we're still talking about what the process is going to be it just feels like these conversations are weeks too late to really help us get into our homes and and to move forward and and you know for many of us many of the people I know in this room we're doing okay we have a place to stay but I have 100 employees that don't in my home and they their homes on you know Sunset Beach are flooded out also so this process isn't just for those of us in the room it really is truly for the whole community and from a business standpoint and a home standpoint we just need to get moving so the additional staff that sounds great getting the assessments done um we just need your help to continue this on as fast as possible please thank you thank you and uh we will have uh I'll bring up uh Katherine yonan after this is done to address the businesses specifically because I I do know that a few people are wondering what's happening with the businesses next up uh Anthony Johnson morning my name is Tony Johnson I live on the aisle of Capri I I've read all 174 pages of the FEMA Desk Reference and I'm a little confused about what we're doing here because my understanding of those two options they options to determine substantial damage we seem to be combining those two in some sort of hybrid thing that frankly doesn't make any sense to me you do one of the one or the other I submit to you that we're past the point of option one the language of option one indicates that that should be done let me see if I can remember exact the exact wording short After the Storm we're a month we're more than a month after the storm so option one in my mind is past I know that you're trying to get that done but we're way late so we do either one or two this hybrid thing I don't understand once again they're both methods of determining substantial damage and that determination is either made by the inspection or by the permitting process which is option two if we're doing option two we know need option one they're mutually exclusive actually you don't need both of them and you don't need a hybrid you need one or the other I suggest that option two is clearly at this point the way to go I I I've heard that people are concerned that FEMA may have some fault with option two it's their option they told us we could do that so why don't we do that right that's really basically all I have to say about that thank you thank [Applause] you Arthur say how you doing mayor Commissioners Arthur saon resident in District 3 and business owner in District 4 uh the cleanup of Treasure Island Beach was done in record time far earlier than any other Beach communities for this I thank you the beach is the lifeblood of Treasure Island we small business owners and our families depend on it however a major majority of our businesses remain closed hurricane Helen was 36 days ago and hurricane Milton was 23 days ago and only in the last few days it was clear on the process of Permitting we're looking to restore we aren't trying to take advantage of a desolate situation and gain from it we just wanted our businesses back up and running so we could provide for our families our staff and our community my regular guests depend on it my staff depends on it and my family depends on it and my property I cannot file and emergency roof repair as I have a 6ot gaping hole in my roof which was covered by a blue tarp right there uh on uh Thursday uh the sky the sky could be seen from the room uh on Thursday November 7th and 8th we are forcasted for a 65% chance of rain I need to be able to submit a permit to prepare my roof and stop further water water damage my general contractor M roofer already has the needed documentation and Engineering with materials waiting in the warehouse to be delivered anything other than option two will res result in delays in welcoming tourist before the high season starts Christmas is 54 days away any further delays in permitting will res result in the domino effect of further employee layoffs Commissioners and mayor doctor you've probably already seen the real estate for sale signs as is signage and listing sprouting up everywhere on Treasure Island on Paradise Island alone I know eight residents who have either sold as is or walked away please uh make the right decision for option two in the future of Treasure Island you and you are our neighbors and you're in this with us thank you for your time thank you Robert baso uh morning Robert baso uh just one this is really important obviously because I'm missing pickle ball this morning and I'm here so thank you so uh this is very serious it's a defining moment and again I thank you for having this emergency meeting um now there it's a letter of the law and there's a spirit of law rules and guidance and I think we're kind of we're kind of missing that obviously the letter of the law has been fully articulated by the staff here but the spirit is what is for us not to waste uh government resources uh good money against bad I get that um and and and I respect that but I think we've misinterpreted really what the guidelines are as we've learned recently the the ones that are responsible for determining substantial damage are in this room we are an incorporated municipality it's not the federal government not the state not the county people in this room and you've delegated this to the flood plane manager so you guys determine that okay um one of the reason we don't trust the government is hurricane to Katrina the Lower Ninth Ward is zero at sea level or minus 14 feet below sea level uh in New Orleans it got flooded out and what did the federal government do rebuilt the Lower Ninth Ward because why it was culturally and and historically significant we are what between three and 9 ft I think above sea level and so we're all concerned again get about this this F and number words matter what is market value we all we all accept that the the value that we got from the county from Mr Twitty uh Twitter Twitty is correct it's incorrect but why do we accept that it should be correct and we have to pay three four 500 $600 to get a private assessment no let government should work and work correctly we should know the the market value should be correct and again these are not a market value is not finite what's a market value what I'm willing to pay for your uh your product on that particular day and is clearly not the number included in that letter and by the way the letter we all got which was really fast which dated November 1 I got the letter two weeks ago which is really really pretty pretty fast um words matter words matter substantial damage what does that mean well we have the written definition the 50% rule but what really what is that what does that really mean to us the Supreme Court decades ago struggled with a with a definition of the term pornography what is pornography the famous Justice p uh Stewart said I know when I see it the same thing with substantial damage we know it when we see it and so let's sometimes we need to to find a word by saying what it isn't substantial damage is not drywall and electrical outlets it's not it simply is not we're talking maybe perhaps the trim should be substantial structural damage SSD there are some uh buildings and houses here that have moved off their slab the walls have been demolished the roof has been blown off I get that I understand that people talk about Ford Myers Cape Coral I think a lot of those homes were indeed uh substantially damaged but not Treasure Island most of our homes are fine there's also no regulation that says you have to have an inspector come in and use his algorithm with his iPad permitting is the way for us to track damage the cost of real damage and some of the Commissioners have noticed that should be the Benchmark not somebody with an algorithm and an iPad 12 in of of water equals to the government x amount of dollars well guess what I may have a Contractor License by the way in bond it that says I can do it for half of X so you mentioned B let's bundle permits together that gives us a cost and that will determine substantial damage not some estimator on the street looking at my water line and by the way somebody mentioned I have to have a on level house and I was blessed enough to had to I had zero water in the house is some inspector now going oh he must have had two feet of water in his house come into my house I've got zero substantial damage is determined by the people in this room and let's keep people here in this community uh and I know you guys I know you guys really want to do that we can make a difference today you guys are it's it's aing moment carpedm seize the day and get permid done thank you thank you Chris Downey I get to follow you I'm Chris Downing I live on on is of Palms I'm also a member of the U Planning and Zoning Board you I I've really watched for the last since the storm with astonishment that there's been confusion about the direction to take on how to issue permits when we already had a system in place to do so there actually wasn't a reason any reason after the storm for people to be able to just submit for a permit and go through the normal process um you're to here today to look at this option one or option two we don't have a definition of either one of those my own interpretation after reading much of what has been out there and listening to what everyone has to has had to say is that option two is in fact our normal process for this city in issuing permits and doing the analysis of whether or not the 50% rule would be violated or not when all of these inspections are going to be done that you're doing now under option one you're going to get a red light or a green light for your particular property at that point whether you have that red or green light you're still going to have to go through the permit process and determine the building official is still going to have to determine whether or not that submission meets the FEMA 50% rule we haven't accomplished anything by that first survey effectively so it it is confusing to me why we've had to have this you know long discussion and and delays that we're seeing today so I'm very pleased to see that the commission and the mayor is supportive I think of option two which is supportive of our standard operating procedure for the city right now you don't actually have to make any movement except to allow our building department to get to work now where we are going to see a bottleneck and it's already been pointed out today is whether you get a green light or red light I call it off of this first survey these permits are going to be clogged up in the fact that you have to go through this process and the liability is still there no matter what so I would encourage the commission and the mayor to do what they can to give more support to getting additional staff in the building department to review these permits quickly we could have been doing this three weeks ago and I'm glad to see we're going to maybe get started tomorrow actually doing it thank you thank you Andrew vasy good morning um yesterday was Halloween um I was out at my house no trick-or-treaters I get the email with the agenda item today and it looks like for Halloween I've got option one disguised as option two and um we we need to we need we need to clear this up um and it's all about substantial damage assessment which you heard Catherine speak about you've heard the last couple with with Robert um and everyone talk about and the issue is that the people in this room have the ability to do it um Robert wrri the words matter we keep hearing the word could um well if we don't do this we could get penalized by nfip could get kicked out we could this okay words matter we could have this meeting on the moon it is possible but it's probably something we don't want to do so the the there is no mandate to have FEMA uh people with iPads and algorithms as we talked about conducting these the damage assessment is compiled by the math that is done you submit you have your assessment and you have your damage reported and that is your substantial damage we're subject to audits today last year year before because of the flood plane so the audit provision that was doing is nothing new and so um the to move forward on option two means to do it without the assessment in the sense of the way that the fem handbook is written I understand you want the additional resources I suggest that um that you consider contacting the large engineering firms like a Comm and Jacobs who have lots of people who would love to come in as as mayor doctor said don't worry about the money let's get help in to review the permits let's report out at each commission meeting how many permits came in how many got turned out how many are pending but firms like Jacobs aom rs&h they're all out there they would have the capability rather than trying to go to the state and wait for another level of bureaucracy to help out you know another government let's let's get proposals in quickly these guys they would love to come in and set up an army of people it's a great time to come to Florida November and and help out and process these permits but I want to be really clear let's not try to disc put put a costume on option one and call it option two let's do option two as it's laid out in the handbook and that you have as a community the ability to do the substantial damage assessment thank you thank you Chris Clark most of what I was going to say has already been said but I I just want to compliment you Ardon on on your question at the beginning which was basically are option one and option two's both approved options and the answer was yes now unfortunately at the meeting you know Tuesday night it was there was no option one or two and we had to use option one and so I mean I don't really understand why that happened but I think it's clear now that there is an option one and there is an option two and like everyone said option two is the way we've done it forever and the way we we still can do it um I do agree that there is a you know it's going to have to be on the homeowner somewhat in the in the in where you talked about people that are very close to the 50% um they're going to have to make a decision I think on their own do I want to move forward because they could come back and tell me that I you know I now I'm over my 50% and they're going to have to appeal and do all that but I think every single person in this room that's in that situation can make that determination on their own um and I think that they should be able to make that determination on their own my issue is with people like myself and others like me where I fortunately have a very very high number you know I've already turned in my my my contractor has turned in the building permit I am less than 50% of my 50% um the inspectors have already come to my house they told me they listed my house is 5% damage so when can I you know when can I get my permit and I think that's what option two allows us to do is move forward and get me that permit even though I have had the the the inspection done but um you know I think that we need to get as many people physically possible working on these permits so we we we can get them out thank you West Evans West Evans is of Palms uh I had to type mine out because I'll get up here and rant and uh my wife doesn't like that uh I before I read it though I I do want to say that Kathy I feel like she said once the assessment is in uh they can start processing the permits but starting with the drywall removal permits I feel like those should be rubber stamped and out the door in fact the Treasure Island website says that no permit is actually needed for drywall removal of sto storm damage drywall so that's a waste of time to even do those first those should be done with out the door all right now I'll start with what I was going to say I understand that the inspections have already started and that it should be wrapped up in a few days the problem is not the assessments SL inspections necessarily it's the timeline though I do have a problem with the way they're conducted is I don't trust a computer program created by an organization that wants my house demolished to give me an honest determination on whether my house should be demolished or not but that's beside the point I want to make anyway my issue is now we are going to be set back another week two weeks maybe a month we don't know once the determination comes in how long is it until the city staff truly starts issuing the permits we need this contractor will be delivering results once a week but they're working with 15 other municipalities I believe she said so how many a week are for Treasure Island alone we don't know we know to get a permit regularly in Treasure Island is not exactly a speedy process now with added bureaucracy not sure are we making it any quicker right now we could already have permits issued to those that have less than 50% damage as determined through permit valuations which is a regular permitting process as allowed in option two I understand behind the scenes there's pressure and legal talk that has to happen between the city and FEMA and other organizations it's not as easy as a resident want it to be I understand that but I also understand that we have a city manager and City staff that seems to be adversarial to the residents and right now we honestly do not know who to believe but I do now know without a doubt who I do not trust thank you thank you Sarah Pennington okay thank you very much uh Denise Sher sh there hi I'm in a multifam condo just down the street on 104 so we have 20 units um I think my original question's been answered out in the hallway about permitting as far as um the units but my question is as a homeowner um I don't understand because I live in a multif family that why can't I be the contractor I have life subcontractors lined up to do the work but I'm told that I cannot fill out a permit for renovation because I have to have a contractor why do I have to pay that when I've done built multiple homes then multiple res reservations I know how to do this and I have licensed folks lined up why can't I just pull a permit myself you guys can come out and inspect it make sure I did it right I'm told I cannot do that thank you Tim Butler is Tim Butler maybe outside he left Tim Butler left okay Greg Smith hi Commissioners uh day where I want to be on Friday morning but I'll put in a couple couple thoughts here I think we have to be realistic about this problem this problem started when option one was moved forward without a commissioner vote okay this option one was started without the commissioner voting on it so let that sink in for a minute now we're trying to create a hybrid all I hear is that how tough FEMA is how tough FEMA is and we're going to create a hybrid and rewrite their we're going to rewrite their rigs we're we're changing FEMA guidance calling it a hybrid the gentleman earlier was right on this is one or the other this conversation should be should have happened a week after the storm option one option two the decision should have been made option two is business as usual get your permits go through the process follow your normal permitting process do the inspection as you do the work if you do electrical bring an electrical in inspection in you do drop we've turned this thing into a mess for no reason it was so simple now I appreciate mayor mayor Payne Chuck Anderson Stacy Bo kather yonan they had their own agenda so they moved this through and took it around the commission we we have an attorney who says without a commission vote option one is not even in play and we're and we're have we're out here now paying inspectors adding inspectors and it's costing everybody you know that you're going to get an assessment on a house that you're going to have to appeal I would guess 80% of them are going to be appealed that's fine maybe the appeals process will work how many weeks are we going to add on to this now we get information once a week it comes in it's not it's not accurate so you're going to go back and forth and fight over it I I I just guys realistically I don't I don't think this is a a week or two delay here we're talking now month or two and it all goes back to a bad decision on the front end a rush to judgment and move this thing forward and I think the residents are it's it's time for some accountability guys the Commissioners have got got to own the city you know we're I don't want to bash any staff mayor Mayor Bob Bob me I'm with you on that we're not talking about staff here we're talking about highly paid professionals they're supposed to be professional managers taking care of the stakeholders at my company when my professional managers don't take care of the stakeholders we ask them to take their talents elsewhere where they're more appreciated and okay that's all I'm going to say thank you Greg um I'm not sure on the is this Doug hton is that correct Doug great I live on Al Capri I don't think my story is any different than anyone else but just kind of the real impact of people I spent probably three weeks on couches and at relatives now I'm in an Airbnb it's 3500 a month my mortgage is 3500 a month I have single family and I also own several multifamilies I get to ask every day for my tenants what's going on when can we move back in and I and I have to tell them I don't know option one option two uh it there's a lot of confusion in the city all of these structures are concrete block structures all of them just lost drywall and plugs that's it you know maybe it maybe an AC in one of the units the assessed value from FEMA which is about half of the actual reconstruction value is um the the repair cost is a small fraction of that value and yet under the option one everything has to be inspected the same and I agree with what a lot of people said you know former Circuit curent Judge uh Anthony Johnson there you know mentioned this 12 inches none of us got 12 inches but if you had 12 inches you're very lucky it was more like two feet so I don't understand the hybrid either because everybody cut off 48 in because that's a sheet of drywall so what what what's the difference between 12 16 18 in I mean if there was a hybrid and I think that time's way past for that it should be value of your house so if they assess my house at 425 and the 50% rule gives me 200 Grand and it's just rwall and plugs why do I have to wait what's what's another month and I have to write another check for $3,500 the day to Airbnb a lot of my family members are doing the same thing I just met a gentleman that's driving to Tampa every day for Airbnb so I I think everybody wants this option two not option one that's that should not be an option it should just be option two so we can move forward start putting drywall back in and move back into our homes my contractor said he could do it in two days you know and then he's got a tape and mud and stuff but I don't know if I could move in do I need to pay for December rent now too plus my mortgage it doesn't make any sense and I understand there's risk I mean the state attorney said uh a person you know went over the 50% Rule and that person now has to get Alternative Insurance for FEMA that to me doesn't doesn't seem like it's quite the threshold to go back to option one I mean there's going to be people that are on the bubble and may maybe if there was a hybrid it's it's that you know if your house is worth under a 100,000 and it's rwall even then it's it's like 30 grand for drol cabinets for an entire house so I understand there's risk but what's the threshold is it 10 people make that mistake 100 people make that mistake I mean if it's a person that did this mistake and it's at risk with their house then that seems like a pretty low risk that's like 1% out of 99 so I think the decision has to just be made for option two done it over with move forward so we all know what we're going to do so we can all plan and move forward so we can tell our tenants to move forward that's my comments anyway thank you thank you R Miller good morning commission nice to see you um sadly under these circumstances Robin Miller I'm with the Tampa Bay beaches Chamber of Commerce sounds like you are are taking uh the direction of option choose so we appreciate that speaking on behalf of the business Community very often the commercial properties are left out of the conversation I know a mayor doctor you did say you will be addressing that we just um want to Advocate strongly on behalf of those businesses because the sooner that they can get their permitting right the sooner that they can get in and get this work done with their teams the sooner some of these properties can house some of your displaced residents that are driving to Tampa to airbnbs and also give you more a sense that the community is coming back together when we can get those businesses opened and the unemployed back to work so thank you really for what you're doing I know these are challenging times and I'll will tell you you know you are the leaders of this community and that's why these wonderful residents are here looking up to you and in difficult times uh leadership means you have to take some risks and I know that's a scary thing I know uh commissioner meing a scary decision to make uh you know being towards this option but I think you all with the affidavit you're protecting you're you're showing the residents in the business community that you're looking out for their best interests and you're being strong leaders uh on taking those risks so thank you thank you [Applause] that's all of the cards that I I do have do we know did Katherine go back to her office or is she still available oh I'm sorry I didn't see you sitting back there Chris was too tall so my first question would be uh how are we handling the businesses in in this U procedure so businesses go through the same process um I had reached out to Clyde and you know said do you do you need any help from our department is there something you need and um I was aware that he was housing a lot of the people from the community so we prioritized that inspection okay but they are handled in the same through process the same value the different the one thing that is different as Condominiums because the property appraiser carries no value for those Condominiums so they are going going to have to have an appraisal okay and I want to clarify something else that I've been asked many many times by condo residents is how is that money allocated within the condo for repairs and that is going to be up to the condo association and the HOA and the condo docks and so we used to have a process which we got rid of to streamline things requiring a condo letter saying from the HOA saying this is we approve of this permit we're going to have to go back to that process okay um we had one L I believe it was Denise that uh was in a condo and she was wondering why she can't do the work herself yes uh owner Builder is an exception to the laws requiring a licensed contractor that is a um State Statute and it is only applicable to one and two unit dwellings okay I I don't know if Denise is still here or not so is uh I don't usually like to do this but would you would you want to come up and ask any further question okay I'm sorry Mark no worries and that's fine cther really be answer um Mark Hoy 22500 4th Avenue District 3 so learned something new this morning and that was that we need to have a uh to see if our property 20 unit you know ground floor slab construction that needs to be seen if it's still FEMA certified or female except that was news to me that that was an issue uh we had to place we had a general contractor come in and muck the place out and in fact um they're done so we're kind of sitting still uh better than 10 days ago because we did have water sufficient to get the lower Outlets they sent a note to the uh Buildings Department to ask that question do we need an inspection of that before we can move ahead with a permit didn't get an answer they're done they're gone they're packed up and we're waiting there to say okay what do we do now I guess because the thought was do we have to go hire another contractor to start that process before we can turn it over to the owners to do their build back so anything that you can clarify for the condo owners would be helpful Catherine please so that work to build back would come in on a permit uh and that's where that condo letter comes in because it's each condo you know know is a separate parcel separate owner uh but the money is aggregated per building so that's where the condo association comes in but where that would be handled is through the permitting process of putting the electrical back in the drywall back in whatever needs to happen in those units now do we know uh are there folks that live in condos that have come in and basically tried to start the permitting process me yes yes yeah one in the back yeah and two we got one here sitting next to me yes there are and how does that how does that work if it's an individual coming in or does we we accept the permits and put them in process um we just figured out about this condo letter because you know you can't have one unit come in and put in you know a whole new kitchen that maybe the units on the ground floor need to be rebuilt so that's going to be have to you know bounce back to the condo association to make sure that they are okay with that permit so it actually would be the condo association the the what the president of the association that's going to speak for the the entire condo legally like in the condo docks it will say who who but there's going to be one one person speaking for the condo and saying this per okay to process this permit for XYZ person for XYZ work okay what about being similar to that form what about our FEMA compliant condos so the FEMA compliant we are pulling all those permits now out of the queue we've been doing that for two days and checking the elevation certificates making sure they're still FEMA compliant they may uh that's the ones we talked about at the beginning where they may have been compliant where built we need to ensure that first of all the flood zone is still they're still compliant second is that um we see this all the time um flood vents haven't been closed off and those kind of things so that they're still compliant that they haven't built out the ground floor and I can tell you from riding around the city and seeing some of the piles on the curbs it's been obvious that some ground floors have been exactly used in violation of FEMA so yeah I I get that but yeah the so we just have to ensure that they're still complying okay great any other questions for Katherine before we allow her to sure would you would you come up just because we are uh back recording comment about feema compliance or by a condo and you're in the middle of that how are we going to be notified are we are we not so we can move forward yes the plan is for permits that can be processed now is the ones that are safe FEMA compliant uh they are just pulled out the queue and the permit is processed uh we can also send an email saying where you know your permit is in process we haven't been doing that because it just goes in process and gets gets reviewed all right um we we would need to have you come up to the microphone Theo I'm Donna uh right over here can you uh address apartment buildings because it's not a condo it's residential and is this 2200 residential inspections including condos and Hut and apartment complexes yes the 2200 is 2200 buildings not 2200 units uh so that is apartment building condo buildings and all of that they have all been inspected as far as the valuation on on an apartment that is a a value that the property appraiser has so that goes through the same process as a single family home would go through okay thank you come on up hi Matthew District three question if we with the process of permitting I'm on the HOA board what is going to be required from the HOA because we're going to have we have 10 units that are flooded 10 that were not we're going to have 10 units that require permitting individually can we issue a blanket letter from giving the city the authorization to issue the permit for restoration of the units how specific does it have I just don't want to get two weeks into this and then we we got to jump through a bunch of Hoops in the HOA issue a letter these 10 units have the authorization to restore their units at as they see fit good question please Katherine we would accept that letter as a blanket letter or it can come in with each permit the only concern is as the condo you probably want to identify the maximum amount that each condo has because if you send a blanket letter and say everybody can do whatever they can bust through well if you've got a million dollar building and each one all they one took 90 one took 50 one took 150 so you want to control that side from the condo side s of put in goldplated pictures yes none of this is more than drywall and if your letter wants to say that that would be do have cabinets cabinets yes but in order to I don't want to have somebody waiting on their permit say oh we're waiting on the H yeah you can go ahead and create that letter and put what limits the condo wants to put in that letter perfect thank you Rick okay last one my name is Ryan White I'm in District 3 I have a question regarding the condos I live in a cond and I'm also on the board of that cond so how do you determine if a condo complex is FEMA FEMA approved how do you determine that is that already known so you can tell me if I come ask you you want to answer that question y so the city has elevation certificates on file or in a out in a digital repository saying when the building was built what the lowest floor there are two different Fe I don't know how complicated you want to get FEMA has two different um ways of looking at what your height needs to be if you are in what is called uh Coastal a v or Coastal a zone that means that the structure has to be above base flood plus 2 feet if you are not in a coastal a or V Zone that means that your floor has to be at base flood plus two so we have that data on the building and so we just pull those ele ECS we call them elevation certificates and ensure that that building can be released from the queue uh we would have to pull the data but we can come on out if you'll come see our people in the lobby we could help you okay okay so this is this what she's referring to this process I'm assuming this is only for option one is that correct because in normal process the HOA doesn't have to do anything on permit in a condo is my understanding is that correct that's a good point can someone answer that do you have the answer Katherine so one thing I want to be clear female compliant structures are do not have the 50% limit on Renovations or improvements so if your condo is FEMA compliant I.E meets those two things I just talked about that 50% rule does not apply to that building so the I'm sorry second question only no optional process normal process is to get the valuation of the building and ensure that you do not exceed the 50% rule the 50% rule every day for substantial Improvement but substantial okay I I don't want it's almost turning into a little bit it okay um let's can I just please do substantial Improvement is when you choose to repair your property improve your property or do something to your property because you want to substantial damage is a different thing where the entire structure has to be returned to pre-damaged condition for under 50% if it is not FEMA compliant thank you okay I'm the one that called the emergency meeting for this morning um and the process that we've gone through today is a little bit unorthodox um I did have staff answer questions that uh that were put on the spot and not necessarily that they were expecting to do so and usually during the the uh opportunity for uh input from the audience uh usually we take that uh input but we do not respond but because we are in a unusual circumstance I've asked staff especially Catherine thank you very much for all you've done and and Chuck as well thank you for kind of opening this for us um so uh I'm there was uh one additional item that we wanted to bring up and then I'll go with the last and that is the uh the Condominiums and the debris yeah actually if I could merry two items one of them would be um a discussion upon extending the waiver for permit fees out through January 30th okay 2025 the uh staff will be bringing um a resolution to the commission for them to extend waving the permit fees out through January 30th 2025 you know the need is definitely out there in the community it expires currently the 30th of November but we don't want to just do it a month at a time and then have to come back in the holidays that's not fair so we're going to ask to have the commission approve that through the 30th of January we're also going to look to see where in the fee schedule we can expand those items that can be have fees fees waved where the city can afford to be able to do that okay and in in relation to the last item you talked I don't know if uh director Bo is here if you could please come up she's been running point on the commercial debris collection and she's got some good news great thank forget I'd like to provide a residential debris update as well um but for commercial debris we did get updated guidance from FEMA that they will allow for reimbursement on a one pass only basis for commercial debris um there are some caveats to that and we're going to be working through those on our website today so that we can be sure to share that with everyone um one of those caveats is is unless all of that debris is placed within the public right of way we will need the property owner to supply to the city a right of Entry form that allows us to go deeper into the property to get whatever other piles of debris may be back there and in some instances that we've seen is um I know we talked about this on the residential side too is like the pile that's at the RightWay is actually so big that it extends deeper into the property and even in those cases um we would ask for that right of entry form so that we can make sure that we can get it all up in that one pass to get our maximized reimbursement from FEMA um because it already has been a while and we haven't gotten to the commercial debris uh properties we would I would like for you to help me um in coming up with what you want that time frame to be on one hand you want everyone to have the opportunity enough days to get that right of entry form in but you also don't want people to wait too long um so I'm not sure if a week sounds good to you all or if you would like to to have some discussion on what you would like that time frame to be we can start you know as soon as we can but we want to make sure that people have those forms in so that we don't Miss debris that's outside of the right of way any thoughts is it up to the um multiple unit to ask for the right of Entry we're going to have the forms posted on our website today how do you know where the line is though we also have a map that shows where the right of way is so we have all on one page is going to be here's the right of public right of way map here's the right of entry form we want you to have everything at the curb and separated appropriately by this date because we're making the one pass through um so we'll have all of that out there today I just need that date from you all thank you I think five business days is sufficient they've had plenty of time to notice that would be up to that be through next week then five business days um do you think that's appropriate I I I think it is but let's get let's make sure it's very well communicated so that uh somebody doesn't come here next week and say I had heard anything about this that was the exact timeline that we um were going to present to you on the residential side for final passes well starting that pass last passive collection um next Saturday I believe it's November 9th um so we were thinking that was the most reasonable timeline as well but we do need help communicating it we will use all of our channels to do it but as you're out in your communities this is for everyone and you see those Residential Properties that have those other piles further back please help them to know that uh we need that form completed okay then is condos is uh apartment complexes considered the same thing as the condo so it is the commercial I know this has been super confusing because when you go on to pelis County property appraiser they actually do separate and distinguish a residential condominium you know from a commercial condominium but when you look at the FEMA debris guidance they say it doesn't matter a condo is a condo and it's commercial um so this would apply to all businesses all Condominiums and all apartment complexes great thank you for the clarification so if we have folks here that that know people in condos or apartment complex or you live yourself uh getting that information out would be important they can go onto our website and uh and make sure that uh that everything is compliant Stacy I just have one other question uh this is great news and it sounds like it saved the city about a million dollars is that great wonderful we still have to FL that money until we get that expedited reimbursement but we are um adding to that expedited reimbursement request for the commercial properties now very great news thank you yes it was good news and I'll wrap up with thanking everyone for being here I'm sorry I'm sorry I just wanted to give one residential debris update really quick and I'll make it fast um so we are completing the first past of residential debris collection throughout the city and so we really do want to encourage everyone just like we are on the commercial side to go ahead and get everything else out that you have so that we can make one final last pass and to separate them into the piles that are um delineated on our website and we plan to uh start that final pass on Saturday November 9th because it is a 7-Day a week operation so get everything out there that you have both on the residential and Commercial side please we are going to also start trying to go around and letting people know with notification uh hangers if their debris piles aren't separated appropriately but obviously that gets very difficult with multifam residents to let everybody know thank you great thank you and Bob yeah at the beginning of this I said I was going to withhold my endorsement until I heard from the public and I'll be happy to share with you that I am happy to endorse option to so thank all right I want to thank everybody we are trying to get all the permits out we're trying to get people back in the homes and we'll do the best we can and and as I've already said you know that uh we're not trying to to cheap out on this we're trying to get all the people that we need that are have the skill sets that are necessary to do all this data entry and get our permits out and then we'll uh we'll spend what we have to spend not that we're going to be uh uh you know we're not going to spend all your money or our money our tax dollars but we're going to make sure that we get this done in a timely manner because I think it's that important that we're seeing people that have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage poten eventually and they need to get back into their homes and they need to get their life back to normal so thank you everyone for coming I appreciate it I'm sorry I just want to make sure that it's really clear so we don't have another one so the option one or whatever that's been going on is going to continue in in in the P you know in the um background we'll say you know because there are people who are waiting to receive that information before they submit their permits because they want to understand which path and they don't um want to spend the money on the front end of mitting a permit without knowing um but for the people who have submitted permits we're going to we're going to you're directing to go with option two um meaning that issuing permits based on a substantial determination but that determination does not need to include wait excuse me based on a substantial determination but that substantial determination does not need to include an an inspection is that correct that is correct thank you okay thank you everyone appreciate you coming today are we going to do C2 we already did be on of Like Straw e