Good afternoon and welcome to the commission workshop for December 2nd, 2025. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Now, if we could stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, city clerk, would you please call roll? >> Good evening. Vice Mayor Vasquez >> here. >> Commissioner Sison >> here.
>> Commissioner Dicki >> here. >> Mayor Doctor >> here. >> Thank you. >> All right. Discussion items tonight. We have one discussion item. It's to amend the comprehensive plan to add plan development zoning. What about the uh
agenda uh approval of regular and uh workshop agendas >> for whatever reason that one's actually listed here that should be on the regular meeting agenda I believe. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> That is odd.
>> All right. Uh so do we have any staff that's going to make a presentation? >> We do actually. Um I had been working with uh Gavin over the last few weeks and he had put together a presentation. So I had asked instead of having someone
else try to do his presentation for him. I had asked if he could come and and give it. So I think probably the best way to start it off is with that and then we can kind of go into it. Uh, mayor, may I be recognized? Yes. Before we get into that, and I try I do
apologize to the people that have attended here, but prior uh to this meeting, I was trying to I was going to suggest that we uh uh postpone this discussion because one of the commissioners is missing, and I feel it's important that all five of us uh
get the benefit of having this discussion. So, I was going to uh I had tried to do that uh uh with the city manager and the city attorneys, but they suggested that it might be a better idea to do this uh uh in in the sunshine. So,
anyway, I again, I hate that that at this last minute I'm doing that to the people that have arrived here to have this discussion, but I would like to to uh suggest that we postpone this uh discussion until uh Commissioner Clark and all five of us can be here.
I mean my >> is that a motion? >> I'll make a motion to postpone that. >> Do we have a second? >> I second. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Do we have any discussion?
I just I mean it's a discussion that needs to be had and I mean I did wasn't even aware until earlier today that um Commissioner Clark wasn't even going to be here. Um but we don't have another meeting until
January. So, I think postponing a discussion um on something that's as important as this um one, I think the actual knowledge of what a PD is needs to get out there as soon as possible. And not just a PD, um just in general,
um because I do think it's important that the people realize that having plan development doesn't go against a master plan. It does. It's not in place of a master plan. You know, there's a lot of falsities that are out there that I
think need to be corrected. And I think giving it another month of that going on is just going to snowball where if we especially being that we have master plan on the agenda
um unless we plan on postponing that as well. I think it's a disservice because as I'm sure we all have gotten emails saying you know master plan instead of plan development when it's not an eitheror situation. It's a work together
putting a tool in our toolbox. We're the only municipality in Penllis County who doesn't have it in our toolbox. Um so it was more about a discussion to clarify exactly what it is um before we move forward with you know
before you know the discussion on the master plan. That way everybody understands it's not an eitheror >> um by any stretch of the imagination. And I think waiting till January 6th is irresponsible and we don't have any more
meetings until then. And why I say I think it's irresponsible is again if we're going to postpone this then I think we should also postpone the master plan um discussion on the agenda. Um because I think they do both need to be discussed in the same meeting because
they can work hand inand so I would just assume talk about it tonight. um you know it's a workshop but you know obviously if nobody else agrees with that >> and also you've you said you've been working with Gavin on this for a couple weeks. >> Well I had yeah I had asked Gavin um we
had talked before our new attorneys were in um as >> he's obviously been billing us for the work that he was doing and now we're not going to discuss it so we're wasting money >> and taxpayer money no less. >> I don't disagree with it. I mean, he
came here. >> It's my understanding, Gavin, that you're done this week. >> When When is your last day? >> Uh December 7th is is the letter from the city that ends my contract. 30 days based on my uh the original contract. Yeah. So, December 7th. >> So, how many hours do you think you put
into this? >> Um I I don't know right off the top of my head, but I could get that to you. >> Well, it's not going to matter because we don't have a second meeting. So, uh, I think, uh, we're throwing money out the window.
>> Well, per perhaps, uh, we could convince Gavin to leave his PowerPoint presentation with us to to >> I'm certainly willing to do whatever, but this is all regardless of what you guys decide. And again, I'm not trying to jump in that. This PowerPoint is
available and is a public record. So, um, you know, that can be it. I'm happy to present it tonight. It can be presented at a different time as well. Either way is is an option. So, >> okay. Thank you. In my account, and I understand uh Vice Mayor Vasquez, your
your point and and uh so so I understand that, but I'm thinking if I was Commissioner Clark, I would I would want somebody to stand up and do this for me in my absence, >> right? uh this is a very important discussion and and uh I think all having the input of all five of us is is
critical to to making this successful. >> Well, again, if that's the case, then I think we should go ahead and put our next meeting back on where it originally was then in December instead of doing away with the second meeting. And that way we can start discussing it so that
things can start happening because the problem is it's always delay delay delay delay delay and that is you know unfortunately that's why we are where we are and you know I know it's the holidays believe me I love the idea of
one meeting as well but if we don't want to have this meeting tonight then I definitely think that the master plan should also be rescheduled. And I personally think that it should be we should put our our uh second meeting of
the month back on and do it at that point then um rather than to wait an entire month um to have this discussion. It's just it's important for our city. >> Yeah. I I don't >> being that one goes with the other. Uh
the master plan is basically just as it says it's a master plan. The other one is a tool that a master planner and all of the the folks that he's going to have around him will utilize so that we could get things happening. That that that's really what it is. This is a tool and
we're talking about a master planner and I think they're two different things even though the master planner uses the tool. >> No, no, don't I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I'm talking about what the belief of the citizens is that it's one over the other. That is what is
put out. That is what's put out on social media. That is the emails we receive is master plan over PDS. That is I mean we have a select few here in the audience who think that's not the case. But I see it on social media every day
and I get emails every day and that is what I'm saying is I agree with you 100%. It is a tool in a toolbox. But I just want to make sure it's very clear. Could Could we please have some order? We're trying to have a meeting
here and everybody tries to overtalk us up here and it's just rude. >> Thank you. >> Is the hammer broken today? >> It's Come on. >> You're running the meeting. >> Yeah, >> people are out of order. >> I just Okay. >> I I mean that again that's I am
definitely not opposed if you want to postpone it, but I think for clarity of what everything is, again, my opinion. I'm one person. If you guys disagree with that, that's fine. I'm just giving my opinion on it. >> All right. Uh, well, we do have Yes.
>> So, I was going to bring this up in the regular meeting. I've talked with all five of you prior to the meeting and workshop today. Commissioner Clark has a work conflict on Tuesday, January 6th, and he asked me to request on his behalf
if the meeting could be moved to Monday, January 5th. He said it really wasn't a huge deal either way. He would just not be available January 6th. So, please factor that into your discussion about doing something on January 6 because I still don't think you're going to have
Commissioner Clark on that date either. So, I think we should reinstate the meeting in December the 2nd on the 16th. >> I mean, if that's the case, I don't see where we would have a choice if he's not going to be at December 16. >> Businesses are struggling on Treasure Island, so we're just delaying.
>> Look at the hotel across the street. Not one car in the parking lot. They're struggling. >> Okay. This fix it, >> please. >> Thank you, Tom. All right. So, uh I guess that we have a
uh a motion and a second. Um any further discussion? >> The only just a a point of clarification. Uh, Commissioner Clark's not here, so obviously he can't vote on it, but has he suggest he talked with uh
either either you uh Charlie or the city attorney about about requesting that this meeting be postponed? And and does his does his uh opinion matter at this point without him uh being physically present
here? I really, unless you guys tell me you don't want you you care if it's discussed or not, I try to keep my individual conversations with you guys individual. I would not have come in here tonight and said Commissioner Dicki
called me last week and asked that this be taken off the meeting. You said that, so that's fine. Uh, so I I don't The only thing Commissioner Clark asked me to bring forward tonight um specifically was moving the Tuesday,
January 6th meeting to Monday, January 5th. Um, so I I don't I can't speak for him in any other way. I don't feel like I'm enabled to do that and I would not share those details with about the other four of you
uh without you telling me to do so. Becky, I have a question. Uh, when there's a vote for this or we just move forward because if if we vote for the workshop to postpone it, it's going to be, I would assume, a two two tie. So, what happens if there's a tie on the
vote? >> A a two two tie fails. So, it depends what the motion is, whether the motion is to go forward with it, then if it fails or >> the motion was to table it. Yeah, the
motion was to take to postpone. Roger >> fail. Yeah, two time fails. However, you you can cause it to go either way depending upon. >> I'm fine with doing a roll call at this point. Give us a roll call, please.
>> Commissioner Dicki, >> I. >> Mayor Doctor, >> I. >> Vice Mayor Vasquez, nay. Commissioner Sison, >> no. Okay. So, let's move forward now. Thank you. >> All right. Um, I'll try to move pretty
quickly. Uh, PDS are pretty complex and can go into pretty in-depth conversations, but I'm just going to give you kind of a general overview and then obviously Becky has a lot of experience in this too and we'll probably add some some input too. So, planned developments an overview. What's
the source of PDS? They can also be called plan unit developments. They can also be called plan commercial developments. Um they're called several different things in different contexts, but it's found in Florida statute and then ultimately uh regulated at the local level like most zoning. So what is
a planned development? It's like I said it can be called a PD, can be called a PUD, PCD, which is a planned commercial district. Uh the city of Venice has some of those. Um it allows flexible zoning. So to put it clear um kind of in a in a
one scenario, there's no perfect scenario, but if you were allowed to build one house per 10 acres and but you had certain setbacks and certain requirements for each acre and one house per acre, that's standard strict zoning, normal zoning that we all understand,
one house per acre, and it has to be laid out each house per acre. A plan unit development, in this case, a residential would allow for flexibility and depending on the specifics of the the town, could allow for putting most
of those 10 houses in maybe half of the five acres and then leaving five of those acres as a community space. So suddenly you're getting a little creativity. The overall cap on density is still there, but you're allowed to shift where the density occurs. And um
so that's one kind of just simple example of how with residential a plan unit development would allow some flexibility whereas straight zoning doesn't necessarily allow that flexibility. So it encourages these are just generally things that people see as as advantages. It encourages creativity
mixed use well-designed projects. It's alternative to conventional rigid zoning as we talked about and then it allows you to combine multiple parcels. In fact, a lot of PDs have um a requirement that you have to have a certain size parcel before you can do a PD. So,
that's something to keep in mind if that's the direction you guys at some point wanted to move in. What are the advantages? It allows negotiated deviations. Um but again, and this is one of the things I want to be very clear on. When you're negotiating a PD,
you have some flexibility, but it ultimately still has to conform with your comp plan. And then with the land development regulations that are accompanying or written for PDS in general. And so you would have LDRs for the PDS that you would you would want to
um list out. And I'm going to show you an example of that from the city of Venice. So there are still restrictions. It just allows a little more flexibility than specifically straight zoning where it's kind of a cookie cutter approach and it creates a unified project
specific master plan. um not a city-wide master plan, which there's been a lot of discussion about and I think is is a great idea, but it t it talks about specifically for that project. So, you kind of get a sense of what the project's going to be like in the beginning and then it has to get more
specific and detailed as the process goes forward. And then it sets expectations for the developers and the community. Now, we're going to look at some examples because what I just said kind of sounds academic, right? So, what are examples of PDS in surrounding communities? First is the city of V
Venice and this is taken right out of their uh 9.1 of their code their definitions and it just defines planned districts as land that is unified or is under unified control and planned and developed as a whole in a single develop operation or program series of
development operations. That's how they define it and then specifically this is how they list it out. Zoning districts in the city of Venice are divided into three types. There's traditional, you guys are familiar with that. We're all familiar with that. planned and then mixed use. These districts occur
throughout the city consistent with the city's comprehensive plan. As we talked about before, it has to be consistent with the comprehensive plan and they're indicated on the zoning uh city zoning map um in this case. And so it it lists the types in the city of Venice. That
doesn't mean you guys have to do that, but you could do plan unit developments, which typically are residential, mixed use, not always, but typically. And then they have a planned commercial district option where obviously you're talking about a downtown a commercial area. And then they even have planned industrial
development. I don't believe that would apply for Treasure Island. This shows you a visual. This is their zoning map from the city of Venice. Took it right off their website. And it shows you I have the blue arrows pointing to how they have pud zoning. And you see how in
those those cases it's still consistent with the overall um future land use map and the comprehensive plan, but then specifically allows creative creativity within those plan unit developments. So the the group that would want to put a plan unit development or PUD, PUD, those
are kind of interchangeable terms. They would have to come and present a master plan to the city of Venice and they have very step-by-step process. They present an overview, then they come back um after the process is done and ultimately present a final product. But there's a lot of control that the city has in that
process. >> Gavin, go back to that zone map for a minute, please. Let me ask a question on the PUD for the city of Venice there, and you may or may not know the answer to this, but the is PUD's applied all over the the whole city or is it just in
certain zones? >> That's a great question. So, when I get to the city of Madiraa Beach, um it I it I have an excerpt that talks about where PUDs apply, which zoning categories. I didn't pull it for the city of Venice because I wanted to um kind of show two
examples, but it answers that question directly. So, that's very good question. >> Um but this I knew Commissioner Dicki would appreciate this if not all, but uh this is actually it's hard to read, but it's directly from the city of Venice's table that accompanies their PD
categories. And if you'll notice, it has building height max 35 ft. So they you can you can you can put in a height cap max in plan development um ordinances enabling ordinances and then land
development regulations as a part of that. So, this is an example of it. And I actually talked to Kimley Horn, uh, Kelly from Kimley Horn, who's been super helpful, and he he was talking about they I think were a part of this, and I know Becky's been in part of multiple, um, PD processes throughout the the uh,
Bay Area and probably throughout the state of Florida. So, there's a lot of different options and ways you can kind of carve this. There's no onesizefits-all um, with the way you guys design it if you chose to move down that path. All right, City of Madera. Sorry, the when I
expanded it got a little fuzzy there, but this is theirs their intent and purpose and they talk about it and the city of Madera as you as you probably remember when we had the joint planning conference and the mayor of MadiRaa Beach came she talked about how they have done a master plan process and then
they also updated their comprehensive plan and then did the enabling ordinances to add in PD as a part of that and they now have several PD processes and what's neat about the way they do their website is you can go and see the different plan development projects that are out there and you can
click on and see the master plans for those projects and see exactly what's happening and what's um going on with that. So there's a lot of transparency in being able to find it and access it and if the public's like what's going in that space there you can see it. So this is similar to Venice so I won't read it
all but I did highlight it allows for design flexibility and it's consistent with applicable and future land use plan categories. So let's look at as Commissioner Dicki said um how it and then it talks about purpose and intent included but not limited to the density and intensity and impervious surfaces.
The reason I underline this is um PD development must meet the intent and criteria of the overall comprehensive plan. So you can't it doesn't give you a free-for-all to just say ah comprehensive plan's out the window. Uh, in fact, you would most likely want to update the comprehensive plan to include
some of of what you're looking for, your vision related to PDS if you did want to include that and move forward. And um, back to this is continuing on, but this is to answer your question. Planned zoning is permitted in the following future land use plan category.
So the flu map, future land use map, which is part of the comprehensive plan, is the visual of the comprehensive plan. this is what the city of MadiRaa beach says they want PDS in these categories and so like Venice it was two specific categories whereas in in uh MadiRaa
beach these if you're in these categories you can apply based on the criteria in their ordinance enabling ordinance you can apply for PD zoning in those areas but you again have to present a master plan of what you're planning to do there's there's feedback
from the public there's public hearings on it that type of So see how it lists it has um activity center commercial residential office and then RFM with resort facility medium which I know we're familiar with resort
facility medium 30 and 15. It's been discussed a lot. So, that kind of gives you an overview of how they do it. And I sent everyone an email with the master plan from Madiraa Beach, the comprehensive plan, um how they did their ordinance, what it looks like,
city of Venice, and a whole bunch of other stuff that goes into more detail. These are just excerpts. Um so, I did send that to you guys if you have um interest in kind of going more in depth to on that. So, this is how their future land use map, their flu um looks in MadiRaa Beach. And if you see, this is
not the only category where they could put um a PD, but it just shows one area where PD is allowed, and that's the resort facility medium. And so that you in theory, if you're in the resort facility medium, you and you had a couple parcels, you could bring those
together and present that as a PD zoning option. And then you would have to present a master plan of what you wanted to do. Then this shows how specifically how the zoning is listed out and and you have already areas that are listed in zoned um
professional or or plan development within. So you have the flu is kind of broad overview and then you zoom in specifically to the zoning and this is in in Madira Beach and then this is their process. So what does it kind of look like in the neighboring
city? You submit a PD zoning application and that's the preliminary development plan. That's sort of a this is what we think it's going to look like, the vision, the overall. Then you hold neighborhood andformational meetings. And again, this isn't a this is just a broad overview there. There's is much
more detailed than the actual steps, but just obviously for time sake, hold the neighborhood meeting then and then it's reviewed by the local planning agency and the planning commission. And then it's reviewed by the board of commissioners in public hearings and then final decision and then post approval conditions, timing and
restruction, construction requirements are obviously implemented by the city. But you start out with an overall plan and then by the end of it the they have to submit for final approval a very detailed plan that includes details like you know how high the shrubs are going
to be and how far off they're going to be and and in some cases colors and very very pretty nuanced stuff. What are the benefits? Uh higher density, um quality and cohesive planning. And higher density doesn't mean necessarily the whole project has
higher density. It means you can put the density in a specific area. And then I think the mayor of U Madira Beach talked about this like if you had a a building that was maybe a little higher but then it was more narrow and so then you had a better view of the ocean when um because
the building was here and then you had a little space. Same same overall space but shifted. So it gives you more flexibility and creativity with that opportunity for mixed use and walkable environments. Infrastructure improvements are tailored to the site because it's a mini kind of master plan
for that site. Better storm water management, improved transparency and cir uh transportation circulation. Those are some of the benefits and then the key principles again must overline with the comprehensive plan and the city vision should reinforce community character and long-term goals and then
consistent with land uh use framework required. So, what are some of the advantages? We talked about that. What are some of the trade-offs? You know, not everything is perfect. Not everything it's more complex review process. It takes longer. And some some developers actually don't like PDs because they're more complex. A lot of
them do because they're familiar with it, but some don't. It just depends. Um, some of the smaller developers, it's it's a pretty complex review process, requires a lot of engineering, that type of thing. Requires detailed planning and studies and then again longer timeline and multiple approvals. um that feedback
from the community. There's community meetings required, multiple submitts, that type of thing. Some of the trade-offs. This is the process in in um MadiRaa Beach, but I'm going to kind of go through that quickly because we already went through it. The applicant meets with staff discussion, applicant
submitt. So, what are the next steps for Treasure Island if you guys want to move forward with it? If you don't, that's uh that's why you guys are the get paid the big bucks, right? And are in the um hot seat. But if you did um then you could look at Madira Beach, Venice, some of
the surrounding areas, take the best practices from those and what you think is good for you guys. And that's why I included some of their ordinances and language. And then what restrictions and safeguards that's the biggest thing I think if you wanted to do PDS you you want it on the front end whether it's
height caps whether it's uh density caps whatever it is you want in PDS you need you would express that up front so in the development process you have a clear understanding and then u develop a master plan that includes PD as a tool to achieve that plan that's kind of what
Madiraa Beach did they included in their overall city master plan that we do want development um or PD's as a tool and it's one tool among others. It's not the only tool, it's one tool. And then ultimately, I think specifically for Treasure Island, if you did want to move forward with it, work with Kimley Horn
in their phase two. And obviously your uh city attorneys are very familiar with PDs and can work closely with Kimly Horn, update and implement revisions to the comp plan as necessary, the um future land use map, and then land development regulations. So, I hope that
wasn't too fast or too long. I was trying to hit in between but that is the presentation. >> Thank you. >> I am standing by for questions or I can leave if you want either way. >> Thanks Gavin. That's pretty straightforward. I mean it's Anybody
have questions? >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks Kevin. >> Thank you. >> All right. So >> any further discussion up here? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um I would like to refer to our our city
attorney. Um and he was talking about other tools in the toolbox that could be used um along with you know master plan and all of that. Um I know we've discussed it a little bit. Could you kind of um
>> give us overview of that? There are so many tools that you can use and I think it would be a really good idea for purposes you're going to be going out for a master plan. Part of that process could be to ask for suggestions about
what would work in Treasure Island. Um just you know over over the bridge in St. Pete Beach. Um they just recently had a development that resulted in a lot of of really good benefits to the city and that was the result of a conditional
use um along with bonus density. Um and there are these things can be very complicated and but that's not a bad thing. Um it might you might want have something very simple but probably
that's not what you're going to end up with. um if you want, you know, really good results. Um in I'll tell you in Fort Myers Beach, which was basically wipe clean with Ian, they needed
something that would get them going and we created something for them down there that was um a development agreement with deviations and it resulted in what is called a home rule development agreement. It's not a development agreement under Florida
statutes, but that can be very very helpful, too. Um, but what's >> that called? I'm sorry. >> Um, a home rural development agreement. And it it's we called it and I'm the one who who wrote it. We made it out of
whole cloth, but they they definitely needed something to to start things going, and it definitely started things going. Um but it we called it a um development agreement with deviations and you know there were breaks that were
put on it um which which is important because you don't want it to go you know spiraling off into something that you know could possibly um cause problems with your comp plan because the comp plan has to be adhered to no matter
what. um and anything that you do right now, you have to look at it in terms of SB80, how it's going to impact all this also. So, it's it's not, you know, an easy
lift getting this stuff going, but it's important in order to, you know, start the development process and attract attention of developers. Um, you know, I I think the idea of of a
master plan, I actually love that idea. Um, to, you know, see what are some ideas out there, you know, for different areas and and, you know, what of these tools could be used in order to
facilitate um, development that is in accordance with the desires of the people who live here. Um because, you know, ultimately that's what we're looking for is the balancing.
So anyway, um you know, I'm I'm willing to work with with y'all and with whatever consultants you bring in. I think our firm has, you know, a great deal of resources. You know, we've it's not our first rodeo and, you know, we
want to be here to help. Uh Becky, you'd mentioned the St. Pete Beach, the list of public improvements that they had uh negotiated in a public >> uh in a planned development agreement. >> It was not actually that was actually it
was a conditional use using bonus density. >> Okay. >> In a in a density pool. >> Um do you have a copy of that list with you? I know it was attached as one of the attachments. Do we >> I don't have it. I didn't provide that. I'm not sure where it came from. Anyway,
the the question I was going to ask, were there any of those benefits that could not have been negotiated under our current developers agreement? >> Um, I don't know because I'm not that familiar with what is in, you know,
we're just starting in Treasure Island. >> I could not by any um stretch of the imagination >> uh say what what is allowed under your current rules. I just don't know. >> Okay.
Well, I uh I had an answer to my own question before I asked it. Okay. And uh and the answer was no. There wasn't anything in this agreement that couldn't have been negotiated un under our current developers agreement. >> Okay. >> I was hoping you could say that, but I
don't know. >> But anyway, >> it would have meant more coming from you, but but I understand. I understand. No, I I I get it. Um, oftentimes what you really need, you know, you need
carrots and you need sticks to do any kind of negotiation. and these different tools that you have. Sure, you can negotiate anything, but you've got to be able to have something that you can refer to and kind
of hold it over people >> to to actually get to a point where, you know, the developer may not be totally happy, but the developer sticks around and that the
people in the area are comfortable with the result. And I I think ultimately that's what you're trying to get to. >> Okay. >> And I would agree with that. And that's one of the things of why I like the the P zoning and you know the other tools
that you've talked about is because it is so transparent. They have to come with a not just words. >> They have to come with as a lot you know some people like to say a pretty picture but they have to actually come with that. they have to come with what it
they potentially want it to look like and start there. And there are public meetings and there and that's one of the things that >> I think is excellent about it is it's completely transparent. It is it's a wonderful negotiating tool, but it also
lets the residents see what it looks like. You know, I think that is the biggest thing is words are words and and as you just said a little bit ago, you know, it's it's easy to say and and and do, but when when people can physically
see something and you have those negotiation tools, there's public meetings about it, there's town halls about it, um I just think that that is I think it's good for everyone. I think it's good for the citizens. I think it's good for the city. and having that ability to negotiate
the um you know everything from infrastructure and and public use and everything else I think is is just I mean it's a a tool that we absolutely I believe should have I mean there's no reason there's no downside to having it in the toolbox >> right there's not
>> um just in my experience um it's the process is so important to start with neighborhood meetings I mean I've I've seen things where everything is very centralized and the meetings
have everybody. This is this is a small city but still the immediate neighborhood matters. >> Absolutely. >> And you know having um a process where you do have to make presentations to neighborhoods and that sort of thing. Um
you know I found developers will do it. They may not love it, but then you you gain if you can gain the support of the neighborhood, then it just makes it flow so much better. That that's just my experience.
>> Absolutely. >> Good to go. >> Anything else? >> Go ahead. I'll I'll say >> yeah for closing. Okay. So, uh we want to make sure we get all the public comment in. So the first Derry Smith
>> I just walked in. >> Okay. Grant Smith. >> Good evening, commissioners. Mayor Grant Smith, Sunset Beach. Uh Gavin, thank you for the presentation, the explanation. I just wanted a point of clarification on planned um planned developments. Um, in
2009, Burki and Godshock published a metaanalysis, searching for the good plan. A metaanalysis, if you're not familiar with that, is a summary of research that's been published, and they had 66 articles that they summarized on
planned developments. They published this in 2009. Just some clarification on Madiraa Beach's definition of why planned development is there. In this metaanalysis that was published in a peer-reviewed research article that
summarized 66 different published articles, it says, "The purpose of the planned development district is to allow flexible, innovative site design only when such flexibility results in demonstrabably superior public outcomes
compared to development under the base zoning district. Uh plan development shall not be used to one increase density or intensity inconsistent with the comprehensive plan. Two circumvent established zoning
standards without proportional community benefit. Three facilitates spot zoning preferential treatment or private relief from code. Madiraa Beach's definition is lacking because there's no reference to public benefit. So, I just want to make
sure that plan development is subject to put putting forth compelling public benefit. That's it. Thanks. Thank you, Mark Hoey. Uh, good evening, Mark Hoey, District 3
and Arthur Sison does not reflect my values. Um, I just wanted to kind of address the beginning of this meeting because there was a lot of uproar there. But the thing that caught me was
um there was a bit of feeling that uh we the public are holding things up with development on Treasure Island. And that's not the case at all. In fact, if you go back to summer, uh the whole idea
of master plan development was brought forth and then subsequently poo pooed repeatedly for the next three or four months. And in fact, it wasn't until October 21st at the commission meeting that it
was actually voted on and the city commission asked the city staff to begin that process of selecting or finding a selection. But nothing happened on November 4th when that was supposed to be reported
out. What kind of options project whatever uh there was no report. It was just skipped. Then we come to November 18th. You all remember that because at that point, two of our commissioners flipped. Two who
were adamantly quiet about any master development all of a sudden were for it. Okay, people can change their mind. That's great. But at that time, the commission voted to seek the master planner by 4 to one. So that was good. But in the middle of all this, the PD
thing keeps coming out and that where did that come from? I don't know. What I can tell you is it uh it seems to be a buzzword. I get that. But in the end, I see in our examples, it was same at the
special workshop, the joint workshop. We keep hearing about Madira Beach, Madira Beach, Madiraa Beach. We're not Madira Beach. And and so you start saying, "Well, why is that? Why does this keep coming up? I know we're neighbors, but we're not. Why are we patterning ourselves after that?"
>> Well, let me ask you this. I'm sure you know uh the name Jeff Begins, >> right? >> Big developer, big real estate broker. I believe our vice mayor hangs her license there. >> Yes. >> He wrote in this past weekend, he put a
post on Facebook answering a uh gentleman named Tom Wood. I don't know, Tom. But the answer he had is quite interesting. You have way more development coming in Treasure Island than in Madiraa Beach. MadiRaa Beach
only has a few places to redevelop. Treasure Island has so many more flooded out redevelopment properties. So, I guess the the question is now we know why we're getting such interest. All the developers want to come here and
take the property. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Barb Adams. >> Hi, Barb Adams. Is of Palms. Um, I guess I have some confusion because I was so confident that, you know, we had already all agreed moving forward with the
master plan. you know, the residents want it. This city all seemed to agree with it. And now all of a sudden, like David said, after the flip, um, it's all about PDs. Let's get a toolbox first. If
if a PD is a tool that we can use, and perhaps it will be a good one. Who knows? I mean, it could be a very good tool, but let's move forward with what we have already decided to do. we don't have to slow things down um to because
we have to talk about PDS now. Forget about the PDS right now. Let's get the master plan, get rolling on that and then we can start discussing it. Especially when everybody's here, not doing it when um we don't have a full
group. I mean, what that's Thank you, Barb. Uh There is no name on it. There is an email address. See Warick. >> Thanks. >> Lari Warick, Paradise Island.
Um, I would really like the PDS to stop. I I think we need a master plan first. I think that would benefit us greatly. I agree. Um, we've got some people in bed with, like I said, last meeting with the developers
and we know who you are. You know who you are and actually you outed yourself the last meeting speaking to my comment. Um, we also would like you full attention when we speak, not to be on your phones. Um, it's annoying. I know you're texting
people at the back of the room. Um, I really, really, really would like to see the PDS go away until after we have a master plan. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And Chris Downing.
>> Uh, evening everyone. Um Chris Downing, Ido Palms, member of PNZ and LPA. Um all roads lead to the master plan. I think that's what everyone has said on both sides here. So I think we're all in pretty violent agreement on that. So we can move forward. Um I'm actually in
favor of PDS. They are a tool to go in that tool box as Barb said that our master plan could be. So, we're having a lot of discussion around what this means and I think it's good to present it tonight and thank you Gavin for making the presentation so everybody could
understand what a PD includes and it really at the end of the day it's just it really is a part of a master plan that allows more flexibility and actually provides more review in the process of any particular lot and you know in the case of Madera Beach I'm not
sure in their allowance of PDS if they made a restriction on the size of the particular piece of property that it would require for that. So there's a number of things to consider in that so that you don't try to do PDS for very small properties. It doesn't make any
sense. So there's a lot to consider down the road, but let's do the first thing first. Let's put the horse in front of the cart and get the master plan done. >> Great. Thank you, Chris. And with that, we'll close the public comment. And do we have any further
discussion? >> I just had some uh closing comments I guess uh to say is that uh I do uh uh philosophically support PD zoning. I think it's I think it's a good idea, but I am going to suggest uh some safeguards
or or uh uh some safeguards around it. and and I'm glad to see when Gavin made his presentation that those safeguards were built into both Madera Beach and into uh Venice. So, I'm sure we would too. But but just to be clear on my uh
my list of safeguards, one is I is I wanted to make sure that we limited to specific geographic areas that it wouldn't be uh citywide. So, where would I I see uh PD zoning working for us? RFH50, which is the west side of Gulf
Boulevard, the PRMU Core, 107th Avenue, PRMU Golf Boulevard, uh, and for lack of a better term, the Gator Property, and the Treasure Island Yacht Club, uh, and lots within those
uh, zones that were greater than one and a half acres. So, those are the kind of the areas that I would uh, support that. So anyway, that's one issue. The other one is that negoti uh we could not negotiate uh heightened density above the comprehensive plan. Uh that looks
like a safeguard that's already built into it. We wouldn't we wouldn't be we wouldn't be able to uh negotiate heightened density beyond what's in the comprehensive plan. So that's a given. It's like >> it depends how your comprehensive plan is written as to whether there is any um
wiggle room in the comp plan. If there are absolutes, I I have not read your comp plan yet. Um, comp plans can be written as more aspirational with some wiggle room. And, uh, some
comp plans have just hard lines in the sand. So, I'm not sure exactly what your comp plan >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure ours had have those hard lines in the sand. So anyway, uh not being able to negotiate height or density above what's in the
comprehensive plan. And then the last requirement, we you've heard that repeatedly, is that we move forward with a master plan first and incorporate uh uh PDS into the master plan. So those would be my my uh safeguards I would
say, which I think again come with it. It appears that other cities are doing the similar things. >> And Ardan, I would absolutely second that on the zoning you were talking about. I that's pretty much the circles I have on mine. I mean, that's I think
those are definitely the appropriate properties and areas for it. Um I think the big thing we need to look at also is because we are doing our um working with Kimberly Horn, we already are contracted with them and it could be integrated you
know to not be a greater cost I guess is what I would say um if we're amending but I absolutely agree there has to be limits there ha I mean you can't just make it unending or else you know it's downtown St. And kudos for them, but that's not what
we want. But um so I I think you and I are pretty pretty much on the same >> uh path on that one. You know, it's uh but yeah, couldn't agree with you more as far as zoning and all of that. I I agree 100%.
>> Okay. Yeah, the the PDS truly are a great tool. And I'll tell you where I would like to see us use this type of uh uh product. And that is that uh every time
that we go up and down the beach and then people come in and people say, "Well, we didn't see a whole lot of the beach. We saw a lot of the motel. We saw a lot of everything else." We've got one of the best beaches in Florida, if not the best beach in Florida. and a PD that
would help us open up. >> Absolutely. >> Between all of the different buildings and and everything open up so that we can see our beautiful beach. When you pull up to the the stoplight right now and you look forward, what you see is you see uh Bill Maher, you see the uh
Thunderbird, and you see a fence. And that's one of the things that we're trying to do is talking we're talking to the uh the developers and the hotelers and basically say can we open this up and there are ways that it can be done in the benefit of the community as well
as making sure that the the property owner is is getting you know his his due as well. So I I really do think that this is the great thing. As you know, on the last meeting, I I was the one that said, you know, can we go a little bit higher? You know, 20 feet higher. And I
know some people think that, oh, okay, well, 20 feet means uh next year 60 ft or whatever it is. And and that I think that we can control and and right into what needs to be done. And you know, every year we're going to have different
commissioners in and out. So, we need to really strike why the opportunity is there and and get something moving and get things coming up out of the ground because I'll tell you what, the development is going to look a heck of a lot better on 107th than open fields and
cars parked and and everything else. So, um do we have any last comments? >> I agree with the restrictions and the safeguards and the areas that Commissioner Dicki mentioned. So, I'm all for moving forward. I would actually like to see the December 16th uh meeting
come back and we could put this on the agenda. >> Well, and and that's a actually a question I had. Um so for this to start moving forward, you just need guidance, correct? Is that something that has to
be even go on? I mean, tell us what you need from us. I'm I'm hearing a lot tonight that gives me some ideas about where you know what you want to do and how you want to do it. So I don't
know if it needs to be more refined before we bring something back to you with some ideas. Um I mean it can be done handinhand also with the um with the master plan. >> Right.
>> Absolutely. I guess that's my big question is what you need, you know, what it is you need for from us. Is it something that we have to put on the agenda or is it just something >> Well, you just gave me an awful lot of information which is very very helpful. >> Good.
>> Um and and honestly, is it Kimly Horn that's going to do the master plan? >> Oh, we don't we haven't chosen we have to bid it out. >> Okay. But they're the ones that are doing our um >> Oh my gosh.
>> the phase two updates. >> Thank you. Phase two updates >> on of the land development regulations. >> Yes. So in in with that and you guys if we get to the end of the agenda of the six o'clock meeting where we are discussing m master plan you give us
direction on that. If you want to give it some thought over the next hour or two, you want us to give us okay work into Kimley Horn's LDR phase 2 updates language that would accommodate PDS.
Um, you can do that and we could bring something back January 6th. Don't forget that you will tell me at the end of this meeting or the next meeting if you're going to keep the meeting on January 6 on January 6 or if you want to move it to Monday, January 5th to accommodate
Commissioner Clark. And all I think I need is uh some firm direction and I'm going to be dovetailing into Becky here who has much much more experience with PD. Why don't we clear up uh since we
know that uh Commissioner Clark is not here, but he can do the fifth. >> I just had to look at my phone so I can see my calendar. >> Yeah. Can that's Yeah, if you need to look at your phone uh for your calendar. >> This is January 5th. >> Yeah, January 5th.
Um, would it be like still an evening meeting? >> It would same hours. >> It's the same hours. >> I think it would be Ralph who would be here. I don't think Ralph has a conflict. It's hard for me to I I do have a conflict. Um
um we can we can work something out. >> It's open for me. >> It's open for me. How about >> It's open for me. >> Okay. So, it really will uh Lisa, would you please follow up with our attorneys
and see make sure that is and then move it to the fifth. >> Great. Thank you. Okay. So, have have we given enough direction for this evening? >> The >> um Yeah, let me ask a question. So,
Kimley Horn is doing an update with your LDRs. >> Now's the time for me to get with them. Yes. >> And if I can be authorized to do that, >> I would be happy to do that and just talk with them, meet with them, um and
try to fill up your toolbox so that you can you know, really have it all put together because it would be a shame to have them do phase two of the LDRs and then have to go to phase three of it because honestly that's >> exactly what my point was of why the I
felt >> I need authority from y'all to >> so it doesn't cost us more money. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Is it okay if I contact them and >> uh yeah, I think you have consensus on that. >> Okay, great. >> Absolutely. >> I'll do it. >> All right. Appreciate everybody being here tonight. We appreciate your
comments and we are adjourned. Good evening and welcome to the regular commission meeting for December 2nd, 2025. Five. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Um, can we have a roll call, please? >> Vice Mayor Vasquez,
>> here. >> Commissioner Sesan >> here. >> Commissioner Dicki >> here. >> Mayor Doctor >> here. >> Thank you. >> And moving on uh moving on to the approval of regular and workshop agendas. >> I'd like to uh ask for some changes, please. Uh I would like to uh move
consent to items uh E2, E3, E4 to the regular uh meeting uh business items. Uh these are big ticket items with a lot of money involved. I think they need to be discussed to save money uh before F2. as
F2 is related to some of these um >> which items did you >> uh items E2, E3 and E4 and I think we need to discuss them before F2 as F2 pertains to two of the items.
>> I'm fine with moving it. I agree with you. They're large amounts. So, uh I'm fine with you with us moving those to the main uh to to the uh regular agenda. >> Potential savings of 167,000 just for one of the items which is uh F
F3. I think needs to be discussed to save money. >> Okay. So, we're consent agenda is now going to have only E1. >> Uh yes. All right. So, if we did
um left F1 the same and then uh did F2 for E2, F3 for or E3 for F3, uh E4. >> Are you writing this down? >> I have it written down already. So, uh,
leave F1 the same. >> Uh, E >> and just bump everything else. >> Yeah, bump everything down. >> E1 is the same. >> E, F1 is the same. F1 stays in the same spot. And then, uh, F >> Hold on here.
>> Your, uh, what is your F1? >> Uh, second and final reading of ordinance 2025-33. Uh, mandatory lot mowing. >> Okay. So, but but E1, let's go back up to E1. We got E1 and it stays >> stays as consent. Yes.
>> The next three move E2, E3, E4, >> right? And it'd be F2, F3, F >> four. Yeah. Bump everything down because we need to talk about that before we discuss the current F2 which is related
to >> Okay. As long as we keep it that simple, I've got it. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Yep. And then also um I'd like to uh make a motion uh to reinstate the December 16th commission meeting as there needs to be a lot of work to be
done and 35 days is too long to wait for many business items, especially the PD we just discussed. >> Can I ask a a question of the attorney on that? Um, you've gotten direction to
have discussion with Kimberly Horn. Is that something you think we need to discuss before January 5th as a commission in Sunshine or what is your opinion on that? >> Um, I think I got enough information from you to at least get me started. I
mean, okay, >> we have a serious start with Kimley Horn on this. I don't feel like I need additional information. You know, if there's another reason to have the meeting, I have no problem with it. And I did get a text from Ralph. He's available for that meeting
>> for the January 5th meeting. >> Um no, from for the um the one on the 16th December >> if we had if we have one. >> Yeah, if you have one. >> Okay. He was he was watching the >> watching the meeting apparently.
>> Okay. So, well, I think that uh tonight we've got to decide whether or not we're going to have this the meeting on the 16th or the next meeting being the 5th. I know I've made a couple of arrangements >> because we are going to be uh available. >> I mean, if you if you if you feel like
you have enough direction to move forward with Kimberly Horn because otherwise I would 100% agree. >> So, I retract my motion. >> All right. And then I got a third one. >> Okay. >> All right. So, uh, there are two declaration pages that I've received from the Sabatini law firm and Gavin
Rollins as in as individual interimm city attorney. It does not appear that this meets the requirements in their respective contracts. Uh, could we please have either our city attorney or whomever is responsible for insurance in
the city to review this matter and determine whether it meets the contractual requirements of each contract. And for the record, I'd like to give the two items that I received from uh the Sabatini Law Firm as well as from Gavin Rollins into the public
record. Thank you. And that's it. Let's move on. All right. Um the other thing that we need to do is we need to adopt our regular meeting agenda and uh calendar
for 2026. Correct. Has that already been >> We did that the last meeting. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> So, to adopting the regular meeting agenda, >> that that's just for what's on the agenda tonight, which you just All right. So, we're through that. >> So, you're in the process of that.
>> All right. Great. Thank you. >> All right. Does anybody have anything else? >> Hearing none, let's move on to proclamations, recognition, certificates of appreciation. And we do have a proclamation recognition. Uh, let's see
here. All right. Recognition of retiring firefighter EMT Joe White after 26 years of service. Chief, >> thank you, Mayor, Commissioners. It's a pleasure to be here tonight. Um, I have with me Lieutenant Joe White. We're here to recognize his 26 years of service to
the uh residents and visitors to the city of Treasure Island. Lieutenant White was hired in September of 1999 and quickly established himself as one of our most reliable and skilled driver operator engineers. For nearly 20
years, he held the critical position uh of driver of the firetruck and operator of the firetruck, answering thousands of calls, ensuring his crew arrived safely and ready to work no matter the hour or conditions.
From 20 2002 to 2014, Joe also served as union representative, ensuring uh ensuring that the men and women of the fire department were represented and advocated for fairly and professionally,
always keeping the best interests of the public and the organization at the forefront. In February of 2019, Joe earned and I had the privilege of um giving him the gold badge, his lieutenants stripe. And um since putting
on the Bugles, he has continued to lead by example. He's mentored younger members. He is my logistics officer. So that means he has kept that old fire station running and habitable for us for many years. kept our trucks running and
making sure the firefighters and the department have the equipment and the resources they need to do the job every day. Lieutenant White, on behalf of a grateful department and community, thank you for your quarter century of service, plus your steady hand behind the wheel,
your voice at the table as a union representative, and your leadership as an officer. You've made us a better place to work and live. Thank you. >> I'd like to ask the commission if they wouldn't mind if they came around and got a photo with Joe with his plaque and
um I'll present him with his retired Treasure Island Lieutenant badge. >> Thank you very much. His last day is actually the the 12th, so it's a bit premature, but Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yep. Go up there and get it for >> while they're taking pictures. On uh the
9th next week between 1 and 3:00, we'll have a reception here to uh honor Joe and his time here at the city. So, Tuesday the 9th, we'll be in here from 1 to 1 to 3 for recognizing your service. >> Thank you, Mayor Commissioners. >> Did you say the night on that next
Everybody's taller than me. It's easy for me to hide. I'll just come over creepily over shoulder. >> Good luck. Thank you. >> Yeah. And now we will open up public comments
for non-aggenda items. Tom, I don't see a last name. Tom. Thank you. This okay? >> Yes. Tom Bar, 422 Sandy Hook Road, Treasure Island. Um, I've just got some
questions to ask and I hope that this is being recorded so they can write get this down. Uh, one thing that we haven't talked or I think is real important is called transparency. And I don't think we have transparency here in the city of
Treasure Island. Uh, I've got some questions to ask. Questions have been asked, comments have been made. No one's ever responded to them over and over and over again. So, I'm going to put these on the record of these questions. And I think we ought to
get response from your email or from your site or whatever to the that staff can answer these questions. Uh, as you well know, our budgets doubled in the last six years. That's 16 to 17% a
year. I'd like to know where all the excess funds are. Or have you just been spending the money that's been coming in? Uh, our millage rate is now is 3.81, which is the highest of all the surrounding communities. The average
community is one uh 1.87. Uh, ours was 3.81. In 1994, it was 1.67. Why? Why? Why do we keep raising the millage rate? Who made the decision not to clean up
the fire department, Treasure Bay, and the police department after the hurricanes? I had 32 inches of rain in water in my sea seawater in my house. Within three weeks, it was all gone and everything cleaned up. I'm 77 years old.
I don't think the people with the police department or fire department are as old as me. And I think somebody should gone in and clean the stuff up. How many times has FEMA inspected your properties? And have they turned down all your claims?
How much money have you received from FEMA for those buildings? That's just a question I have. Have any of you been to Treasure Bay in the last 30 days and walked the grounds? Everybody?
Well, it looks like a war zone. I bought at Village of Paradise because it backed up to Treasure Bay. We had pickle ball, we had golf, and we had tennis. All we have now is tennis. No pickle
ball. And you've destroyed the land for the t for the golf course. Who's paying for the seaw wall collapse? Is it the city of Treasure Island? Is it the engineer or is it the developer that did the work?
Who made the stupid decision to put in a 6 and 1/2t walkway around the Treasure Island, which is only about half done. But by doing that, you completely eliminated the feasibility of having a golf course again, which you voted for
two years ago, 4 to one, to fund, and you never did why why are we not looking at at least getting a bid from Panelis County on using their police and their fire? Maybe we don't
want to do it, but we ought to at least find out how much money we can save. We saved a lot of money on the trash. And I think we ought to look into that and that should be reported back. >> Okay, your time is up. >> Okay, everybody in favor of these questions
getting answered, raise your hand. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Diana CrarAl. Good evening. Diana Crarable, District 2. I'd like to have Chief Barkley and Chief Bars come up, please.
I'm here. >> Oh, yeah. Come on. She's got checks. >> Oh, okay. Yeah, >> I was going to sit down over there. >> No. Uh, I'm I'm I'm here on behalf of the Treasureletes. As many of you know, we've been a longestablished
organization in the city and giving for the city all the time. Um, tonight we have for the police association and for the firemen's association and the our
board would like you to take use that money for your holiday parties >> because we want the entire staff's acknowledged because we got admin people that aren't out on the streets and getting thank yous and we want to make
sure they're taken care of. Also, >> absolutely do that. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. Thank you, Diana. >> You're welcome. >> Buzzy Barnett. >> Yeah. >> Not sure.
>> Not sure I can follow all that. Congratulations, Lieutenant. That was a lot of time here in Treasure Island. And like like he has, our family has spent a lot of time here on Treasure Island. I think y'all know we've been here since the 70s. and and I plan on that that house being left to my kids as well, so
it'll just go on down the the lineage. Uh I left town about 3 weeks ago. My wife made me do a 40-year anniversary trip. But anyway, I'm back on the island and and as rough as it looks, it's I'm a lot happier to be here in the ruins of Greece. But anyway, um all I want to say
is is, you know, I appreciate the time and everybody's effort and I think we're starting to see the light here. You know, I ran my own business for 40 years. I I worked for two large corporations before that and and I saw in my business, you know, I could make decisions and we could roll. The
corporations, they wanted to beat stuff up forever and and it just that's why I started my own business. But what we've got to do, guys, is we've got, you know, the master plan. I think everybody's in agreement. We need to lay out a nice plan for the city because we need a lot of work, but we do have a blank canvas
to start from pretty much. So, let's uh let's, you know, move aside all the all the disagreements and let's let's do a plan if the PDs need to be in there as far as as far as, you know, some direction, but let's get an idea on a master plan where this city can be because this can be a great city again.
I mean, it's a great city. It's a great place to live. I love it here. Even like it is now, it's still a great great place to live and and I think most of residents will will be like that. It's the holiday season. Let's all try to get along and have a great holiday and let's move this city forward rapidly. Thank
you. Thank you, Buzzy. Mary Ellen Huer. >> Hi, I'm Mary Ellen Huer. I live at 2408th Avenue. On November 8th, I wrote a an email about ebike safety and I wrote it to
our city manager. As of yet, I have gotten nothing back about it. I'm very concerned about ebike safety. They're on the sidewalk. They're on the street. They're in the bike lanes.
As far as I'm concerned, they're a menace. And I wish that we could make our city more safe for everyone. But at 11:00 at night when the
restaurants close, our sidewalks are full of ebikes. Sometimes they don't have headlights. Sometimes they don't have tail lights. It's a dangerous
situation and I hope it's one that we can consider doing something about. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mary Ellen. Brandy Long. >> Hi, Brandy Long G Boulevard. Um, I just want to announce that an official effort
to recall District 3 Commissioner Arthur Saison is now underway. It's become evident that he is not appropriate to continue serving and since he has refused to step down, this is the course of action available to us. A large
organized team is in motion to collect the required signatures. You'll see v volunteers canvasing neighborhoods and visiting local businesses. We'll be sharing frequent update updates on social media so that you can easily connect with a volunteer and add your
name. Thanks in advance for your support and listening. >> Thank you, Brandy. >> Jeff Banyan, is this now the time that you wanted to speak? >> Good evening. Jeff Bane and Isa Palms. Uh I'm I'm speaking to something that I
brought up I brought it up two months ago a little over two months ago and it was brought up last month and that's uh the St. Pete uh Petersburg beach on 112th Avenue there in the Gulf. Uh that's a
mess and it's and it's an embarrassment and I thought I thought our commissioners had some rapport with St. St. Pete uh whoever's in charge of that and get it cleaned up. We have a fence there. We have weeds. It looks like a jungle. I mean, you you're worried about
your hotels here. Well, I think a nice clean beach wouldn't go uh wouldn't hurt us uh in our presentation to this beach. A lot of people pass that way. And I know I do every day coming off my island. Now, I mean, if I have to do
something, I'll go somewhere. If you if the commissioner won't handle it, then give it me and and I'll I'll go I'll go right up to to Santis. This is a dump. We got enough problems on this island. This is something that can be cured. Very simple. So, please, I'm asking you
again, please pay attention to it. I don't think it's a big deal to do. Take that damn fence down. It looks horrible. Thanks a lot. >> Thank you, Jeff. Mark Hoey. >> Uh, good evening again. Mark Hoey and
Arthur Sison does not represent my values. A couple of things. Uh we we moved so quickly through the the earlier part of the meeting and the discussion got kind of heated about whether we should have
even had the workshop or not and all that. But I I thought that needed a little more clarification and I fortunate enough that I was able to foyer the communication between our attorney and and you the commission and
it's very interesting and and again um Becky I do not pretend to be an attorney whatsoever because you write a whole lot more words than I can understand. However, um I think I think we missed a point there. uh if that was going to be
a change in procedure, I think you all agree maybe you all have either added or taken off agenda items over time and that you've done it with a consensus of three or more of the commissioners and
that's done and it changing that in the middle of a meeting cycle was very poor thought. I mean, it could have waited till now. You could have agreed, okay, from this point forward, we're going to do it a new way, and that's fine, but we
didn't. You know, it was changed in the middle. And I think uh uh thankfully Ardan provided a pretty strong rebuttal to that. And I'm going to make three points if I may, Ardan. One was the public relies on the published agenda to decide whether to attend.
Yes. So you're you're messing up them if you don't present a correct agenda or worse yet you change it and drop stuff right now. That could be a problem. The other is our long-standing procedure draft agenda review final agenda was
designed to avoid sunshine problems not create them. So I don't know how much does that is interpretation. And finally, and I think that was in this case for tonight, when a commissioner must be absent, the meeting day only
rule, as expressed, silences that commissioner. So, whoever's not here gets no accommodation, gets no voice in what's going on. Now, I know that's going to happen, but this could have been avoided. One last thing, clarification for the public on the
direction that the commission gave Miss Voy about incorporating PDS into the Kimley Horn projects for LDRs. It was I'm confused. So, you don't have to answer right now, but I think the public needs to know.
Was that a decision made to director to do it, get more information, and come back? What is it? It was not clear. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. And that closes out the public comments
for non-aggenda items. And we'll move on with approval of the minutes. >> I move I move to approve the minutes as presented. >> Second. >> We have a motion, a second. Any other
comments? Um, let's do a roll call, please. >> Vice Mayor Vazquez, >> I. Commissioner Dicki, >> I. >> Commissioner Sison, >> I. >> Mayor Doctor >> I. All right. Now, consent agenda.
Authorize say manager to execute contract for MMCI laser fish cloud upgrade. >> I move to approve the consent agenda E1 as printed. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any other
discussion? Do we have any public comment? I see none up here. Okay. So, we'll close public comment. Um, all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> All right. And now we're going to move
on to the switching of the items of business. And what was item E2? Uh, authorization of purchase order for sidewalk restoration for Gulf Boulevard undergrounding project. Um,
the first F1. >> No, we we're gonna >> do we need to have the attorney read the ordinance on E. >> Okay. >> F1. >> I thought >> F1 or we we're still on the consent
items. >> Yes. Or >> that are now on the items of discussion. >> Correct. Okay. >> Which was E2, right? We're going to take what was E2, E3, and E4. >> All right. I'm just going to take them down. >> That's fine. Okay.
>> So, whatever the discussion is, if you have questions of me or staff, okay, >> we'll accommodate. >> So, once again, it's E2 authoriz or I'm going say it. Ah, E2 authorization of purchase order for sidewalk restoration for Gulf
Boulevard undergrounding project. So, looking into this, uh, $80 per square foot seems very, very high. Actually, I just got a call back from one of the GCs I use. Then I asked them, "What's the Rolls-Royce of sidewalks?"
Uh, and he said it's $35 a square foot uh, with bellfooters on each side and expansion joints. And he even said 80. The guy's paying off his boat. So, yeah. So, I thought that was kind of high. I was wondering also if we got three bids
for this or if we just got one and where's the money coming from >> Gary? Yep. Thank you. >> Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. Gary Volenick, public works director does not want to stay up.
Um the the price is fairly high. Uh Commissioner Seaison is correct. Um however, the thing that you have to take in account is that that this is not just a stretch of sidewalk. This is about 900 over 900 ft of sidewalk, but it's at 96
different locations. Each it's small pieces scattered around. The forming is not just one continuous setup. Additionally, they're going to be three separate mobilizations to do the work. we've separated into um you know the different locations uh each side of Gulf
and and and and Sunset. So um it's it's a little bit different than just you know someone forming up 900 ft and just coming with one truck one time and doing it. It's several locations. It's constant start and stop. You got to you got to provide maintenance of uh
pedestrian traffic to and you've got to work around these these sites along the rideway there. So it is it is expensive but um it is unfortunate that it's part of the the pennies for penelis uh undergrounding project. Um when Duke
Energy uh worked a we worked a contract with them and I in 2023 unfortunately the contract stated that we would be responsible for all of the restoration. And it's not a common thing for a private uh contractor to do work in the
rights of way and for they usually do their own restoration. Unfortunately, this contract was approved by the city at that time. So, we're we're trying to, you know, address these deficiencies. We've gotten numerous complaints from citizens, near
trips, bicycle accidents, and things. So, it's something that I I I really think it's important we address quickly. Uh the last item I want to uh mention is as far as quotes, we did use our our continuing contract um uh uh for general contractor services. This is something
that was bid out and we got pricing from and stuff. So this is this is all in accordance with our city procurement process. So um I'd be happy to answer any other questions you might have. >> What about like some of the easements that were torn up in during the hurricane? uh like there's certain
easements throughout uh Golf Boulevard that have uh access to the beach and during standing ovations a lot of people were tripping on the easement between I Beach Resort and the Page Terrace. So I >> I think that you're two different things. This is for the restoration for
the undergrounding. It is not for just general uh fixing. >> I I would be happy to we I I noticed it myself is it had a cone by it but it was pretty nasty. Um I've told the crews about that. I'm not sure why it hasn't been addressed yet, but I do know that there have been >> some discussion
>> absences of staff, but we will get that addressed. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> No more. >> Okay. So, uh, we had a motion, correct? >> No, >> we Okay, read the motion if you would, please. I move to authorize the city
manager to execute a purchase order with CNT Contracting and approve Handyman Contractor in the amount of $75,319 for sidewalk restoration within the Gulf Boulevard utility undergrounding project area.
>> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Do we have any public comment? Seeing none, we'll close public comment. And uh would we uh do a roll, please? Vice Mayor Vasquez. I >> Commissioner Sison. Hi, >> Commissioner Dicki.
>> Hi, Mayor. >> Hi, >> Mayor Doctor. I >> moving on down to the next one. It was E3. Authorize city manager to execute the construction work order for the Treasure Bay Clubhouse repairs.
So, um I live in district three and I usually walk around um uh Treasure Bay uh during its construction and I we should definitely immediately fix the restrooms and reception area for check-ins into
Treasure Bay. Uh the building itself is past its use of life as it was built in 1966 according to Penelis County Property Appraiser. Uh, putting $167,000 in for new windows and doors, I think, is a waste of money in my opinion. Um,
obviously we fixed the doors that need fixing and hopefully we could repair some of the glass that's broken, but replacing it with hurricane impact glass right now. Um, we don't know the future of that building. Uh, and uh, let's see.
putting money into a non-conforming building that has structural issues is likely to get demolished in the future is a waste of taxpayer money. Uh minimal work and expenditure should go forward. Uh no expensive replacements of windows
should happen in my opinion. So that's all I have to say. Gary, thank you. >> Commissioner, I agree with you 100%. We do not uh intend to spend $167,000 on the windows. When it came to my attention that that the windows had been
specified as hurricane resistant, um I I asked immediately for us to get a sec a bid for just normal windows. Normal windows are going to cost 30 to 40% of the cost of a hurricane window. So we have to launch when we load things into
the into the agenda, we get documents, we have to get them in by a deadline. this right before Thanksgiving, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we're trying to get the pricing. We were unable to get the pricing to uh to provide uh as a as a uh an example, but I commit if I felt let's
go ahead. It's important we get this project going. We didn't have a meeting a second meeting in December. So, I wanted to go ahead if you can authorize us to proceed with the the interior which was the 93,000 and and not to exceed um you know 50% of that number
even less than that um just to get the project going. I'd appreciate it but if not we'll we'll scratch the windows and doors from the project totally but there's no hurricane glass going to go in there. We will negotiate inexpensive fix for the windows. They are in bad
shape and and we need to do something there. You were right. We're not going to spend that much. >> That was going to be my question. Are the windows are they broken? Are they what what is the And I mean I've been there and I didn't really notice. I've been inside of it
and I didn't So I'm curious as to some of them are broken. Um what we what we were going to do is actually kind of wall up a little bit to get the if we do get any kind of water flood water we'll make smaller windows just put some block in at the lower courts because they go
almost to the floor right now but um I mean yes they do keep most of some of them are broken um if we want to try and just repair what's there we can go ahead and explore that also. I mean, to me that makes the most sense because I do
agree and I think we've all said it before. I mean, the building's passed its life and we don't know what's going to happen in Treasure Bay. So to me, fixing what's there, spending as little money as possible, obviously fixing the restrooms and all of that so that we're not spending money on portables and
people having to use them, but I mean if the windows aren't broke, I mean, the building is not going to be unless I mean, if the building was going to be completely restored and stay there, I would be 100% behind it. >> Well, some of them some of them are broken. I want to just clarify. >> Well, no. And that's what I'm saying.
The broken ones, it makes sense to replace, but to replace all of them. >> If you're telling me that we will we will replace it within three to five years. Are you telling me that? Cuz I'd like to get at least something that's going to get us a few even if we you know, that's going to last for some time
and be be watertight and and and air, you know, we got air conditioning and thing. We want it to to be functional. But if you don't want to, we can just patch it up with, you know, we'll do whatever you decide. >> I'd say patch it up. >> I mean, I just don't see why replace
windows that aren't broke. >> I mean, that's just my opinion. I mean, if they're broke 100%. I understand it and and I'm 100% for restoring. >> What about replacing just the glass if the frames are fine? >> We can explore that also.
>> Can I I see Kathy in the back. Can Can I get you up here for a second if you don't mind, Kathy? Because this is your territory. >> I like this. Plus, it's warmer. >> So, because I've been there with you, so that's what I
>> Yes. The windows, a lot of the windows are cracked. >> Okay. >> And they're held together by um tape and tint. So, I don't know what would happen if you would remove the tape in the tent, but we do have from top to bottom cracks all the way down the some of the
windows. >> Okay. And that's what I was curious of. I didn't know if it was all the windows or if it was some of the Okay, >> there's a few. >> I mean, I'm 100% for replacing the broken windows. No question. But >> broken glass or the whole window? >> I mean, I would agree with that. Well, I
mean, I to me that's neither here. I mean, unless it's a massive price difference, it wouldn't really matter, but I do agree with not replacing everything. >> What if we move forward with the 95,000 to start on the interior and maybe uh Gary, if you could come back with a more
dent, a more price for uh replacing the glass as opposed to uh replacing the glass with hurricane impact. >> I I think it's a good approach. uh we'll report back and we'll have a second phase for the windows and doors >> and explain to you what we can do.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Want to make the motion >> agree with that? Would you agree with that? I mean, do we all agree with that or >> Well, I think at some point that uh we we definitely we've got good staff folks. Our public works folks are are
some of the best. Uh I I think that um when they go out they're looking for the best option >> and to challenge some of the best option isn't necessarily the best thing to do. That's my thoughts.
Public comment. Uh Rick, >> you guys pretty much covered it. Um I I was concerned. >> Rick Matthew 104th. Um, I was just kind of concerned about we have no scope of work yet for Treasure Bay. So to repair
that, not knowing what we may need in the future out of that building. Yeah, get the bathrooms back so the tennis players can can use the restroom, but that's a lot of money. And I agree with well more more so we need to figure out
what Treasure Bay is doing and then go with the clubhouse and everything else. It's just waste of money. >> Great. Thank you, Rick. >> Is that it? >> All right. And so that was our public comment. We'll close public comment. And
can we have a motion, please? >> So, I'm going to I think I have this right. So I move that the city commission authorize the city manager to execute the construction work for the interior
repair project of n is 95 of 95,68120 um for Treasure Bay interior clubhouse repairs. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor say I. >> I. I.
>> All right. Moving down, we are now going to what was E4. Authorize the city manager to execute the construction work uh work order for repair of the Sunset Beach Pavilion. >> So, the reason I asked to put this on
the regular meeting is uh $222,000 seems a little high. Uh I was wondering if we got three bids. Uh where's the money coming from? And uh at F the old F3
uh I'm sorry, the old the F2. Um let's see. It appears to be a $350,000 budget transfer under F3 or F2, but the contract estimate is only 222,000.
Uh so I was wondering what's going on there. >> That's you. We did get three bids on this one and this was the most competitive bid we've gotten. So, um this is the same group that's doing the Beach Dune walkovers.
They've done very good work for us. We're very pleased with it and um uh I wouldn't bring it to you if I didn't feel like it was a a good purchase for the city and get to get the pavilion back in shape. Uh you had
another question. What was the uh money the monies? >> I guess I'll ask the question for the next agenda item. >> Was it the budget transfer? >> The budget transfer. >> Um I thought the we had the budget transfer. There was monies for the Treasure Bay clubhouse renovation and
also for the uh the pavilion. I thought that they were adequate enough. They >> I think you are asking for another item that is in the agenda. Erh, so I I guess Gary can speak on the construction and the need. So the budget transfer is
coming from the general fund. We did receive about $2.5 million for damages from the hurricanes and we put it back in the general fund last year with their budget amendment. So right now that money is sitting in the general fund. We're taking that money from their
350,000. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That's all I have. >> Okay. Motion, please. I move the city commission authorize the city manager to execute the construction work order for the repair of Sunset Beach Pavilion. >> And I second.
>> Gladly. >> Yes. Yeah. But I do have a question. I I'm unlike Commissioner Zan, I'm kind of shocked that uh that this is only costing $200,000 because the damage out there just looks enormous. Uh is is is the plan to put that back to its
original state original condition? We're we're working off of the uh construction plans. Um we've toured it several times with the with the contractor and that's the intent. Yes, sir. We're going to we're going to be able to reuse a lot of the I
eay wood the decking, clean it up and re But this includes repainting the thing, >> the restrooms. >> Yes. >> Everything. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's a pretty good deal. >> Glad to see you moving forward with that. Thank you. >> I excuse me. the restroom. I think we're doing a little bit of we're selfperforming some of the the
installation of the fixtures and things. I think we're doing some of that, but it's the finished product will be um a complete pavilion with the exception Kathy. What are we not putting back in? >> No, we are. We were going to remove the concession area, but I think we're going to leave that as storage. >> You're going to leave it. Okay.
>> All right. Thank you. >> All right. We have a motion. >> We have a motion and a second. All in favor say I. I. I. All right. I I just have a comment here. Uh this is at least the fourth meeting now since March where we have had
consent agendas and yet people are asking to take everything out of the consent agenda which basically is is not productive at all. It's counterproductive. So, at at the end of our meetings when we meet with uh with city manager uh if somebody doesn't want
it to be on the consent agenda that they need to voice up either get the answer or basically have it moved to the uh the regular items of business >> and I have been doing that. >> I have as well. >> Okay. So, so is that something, let me
just get some clarity, please, that you want to do if one single commissioner wants an item off the consent to the discussion, you want to go ahead and action that. Would you like a policy that said if we're spending more than a h 100,000 that's not previously budgeted
or something like that? Just a policy on what goes on the consent so we don't put something on there that seems like a lot of money. But we're going to be doing a lot of repairs, a lot of projects. They all cost money. Some of it's insurance money, some of it's general fund. One
day FEMA will give us money. They haven't yet. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, but it it's it's really counterproductive. Even if one commissioner is going to ask for it to be moved from consent agenda, it's counterproductive. So, I think that we
have to have our people in agreement because to start pulling it out of here and mixing it in and out uh isn't working. It's it's just a waste of time. >> I thought saving 167,000 was not a waste of time. >> Where did you save 167,000? I didn't see that. We just approved uh for Treasure
Bay 95,000 for interior work, but we're not we're trying something else for the windows >> because the windows were I don't think it's counterproductive. >> Okay, counterproductive here as well. So, >> why don't we go ahead and move on items
of business uh F1, second and final reading of ordinance 20 2533. Okay. This is ordinance 2025-33 on second and final reading. An ordinance of the city of Treasure Island, Florida, amending chapter 18,
article 2 of the code of ordinances of the city of Treasure Island, Florida, relating to abatement of nuisances, adding grass in excess of 10 in as a nuisance, providing for conflicts, providing for severability, providing for codification, and providing for an effective date.
>> And thank you so much for reading that and taking care of that responsibility. A motion, please. >> I move to approve ordinance number 2025-33 at the second and final reading at public hearing. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. I do not
see anything from the public. So, we'll close that and uh we need to take a uh conversation >> and we need to take a roll call, please. >> Vice Mayor Bazquez. >> I Commissioner Sison. I >> Commissioner Dicki. I
>> mayor Doctor. F2, first reading of ordinance 202536. >> Okay. This is ordinance number 2025-36 on first reading. An ordinance of the city of Treasure Island, Florida, amending the fiscal year 2026 general
fund budgets to recognize additional expenses of $625,000 for expense of beach pavilion and treasure bay clubhouse repairs and adding a FTE community development administrative assistant providing for
severability conflict and an effective date. I move to approve ordinance 2025-36 at the first public hearing and to schedule it for a second reading at December. Okay, >> January.
>> That would be January 5th regular commissioners board meeting. >> Do we have a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Uh no public uh hearing, so we'll close public
hearing. Anything else? Yeah, I I have some questions on this. Um, in particular, the the additional uh full-time community development administrative assistant position that's being added. Is this a position we've talked about uh at our last meeting that
that we felt that code enforcement needed it to back that up? Is that the same position? >> Yes, sir. And at the end of that discussion, uh, our current CDD director, Miss Lee, stood up and said, "Just to be clear, we're hiring an additional person to administrate all
this." And you guys acknowledge that. >> Okay. I just I just wanted to make sure it was >> that's the same person we're talking part-time position because 30,000 seems kind of low. >> We allocated the the cost based on the months of like I I was assuming the
person is going to start in February. So because this ordinance needs two readings. So by the time we hire somebody's >> is a 8 months. >> So the 30,000 is 8 months of an annual salary. >> It's about eight months. >> Okay.
>> Okay. We have a motion and a second. And roll call, please. >> Vice Mayor Vasquez. I. Commissioner Sison. I. >> Commissioner Dicki. I. >> Mayor Doctor. F3 adoption of resolution 202527-27.
>> I move to adopt resolution 2025-27. >> Second. >> Okay. We have a motion and a second. I do not see any public comment. Uh any additional comment up here? All right. Uh, roll call, please.
>> Vice Mayor Vasquez, I. >> Commissioner Dicki, >> I. >> Commissioner Suzan, >> I. >> Mayor Doctor, >> I. >> All right. Four, non-exclusive license agreement with Two Mermaids Beach Resort for parking access.
Well, and last meeting we table this item because uh if I remember commissioner Basquez asked me for for some numbers uh for you to take a decision and looks like I don't have this presentation here
somebody from it or Where? >> Here he comes. >> We have access to >> I apologize for the delay. >> I send it.
>> Yep. Okay. So I'm going to you know I like short presentations so this may take me two or three minutes. Uh so this is just a discussion of what they had this contract that they had expired. It was for eight lots. They
were paying $600 a year for six for eight lots for a total of 4,800 a year. Um this is some information of what the revenues for last year uh citywide. So the average per space, which is the
number you want, is uh $2,400 rounding. If I'm too fast, just let me know. So th this is a map. So then the north part here, this is where uh Two Mermaids is
located. So if you go a little bit south, this is the spot that Commissioner Basquez asked me. And this is three spaces. We we own this parking as well, but this one we get revenues. We we charge per parking. So it's just a walking distance. I believe it's 110 of
a mile. So this is some pictures of the parking of the three spots that that we actually collect money. So for those three spaces, what we collect is $5600 a year per space.
So that's the number that commissioner Basquez as last in that last meeting. So going to two more mates. So these are the eight parkings that we are talking and and we we did block the the license plates here for the purpose of these
pictures. So we have three different picture of the same parking spot. These are eight spa space. So I I have now three options, but you commit the commission can come with the
four one and I'm here to listen. So this is based on $1,000 per space. We will be charging $8,000 a year on revenues. This one is based on the average revenue per citywide which is 2400
and we will get $19,200 and this option is based on $5,000 a year. So we will get $40,000. I think I didn't update this this part was my fault. This is a mistake. But here I have the
figure. So we will make 40,000 a year if we were charging uh similar to the three spots that are there. So uh with that uh I need some directions on from the commission.
Thank you for doing that because um as I stated in the last meeting, you know, totally get the city average, but we all know the beachfront parking is at a premium and our figures, it's exactly the figures that that I thought it was from a
previous conversation. So, beachfront is premium. I mean, the fact that we make $5,600 a year per spot on the beachfront that has three spots and hidden is um that speaks volumes to me. And not that I'm
by any means trying to hurt a business. Um but uh you know this sets a precedence you know and what I mean by that is we have another business that has no parking for their um employees
and they used to contract with us and this is before you Victor because it was before um the hurricane and they were able to use our city hall parking lot for their employees because they have evening hours so city hall wasn't open
So, it worked out well. But the problem is if we set the precedence where okay, we'll any business that needs parking, we'll give it to you for $1,000 of space, however many spaces you, you know, we contract, it's $1,000 a space because
how can we charge them $1,000 of space for the two mermaids, but we can't but we want to charge or potentially charge more for middle grounds.
Um, so it is and no matter how you look at it, it is setting a precedence, but it's also taking revenue away from the city. Before the hurricane, the Two Mermaids property was up for sale as a tear down and it was, I believe, at 8
point I might be off a little bit. I know it was over 8 million. It I believe it was 8.4 or 8.7 million selling it as the piece of property with a new home on it. So, it was they had no intention of it being a hotel. Um, to my
knowledge, it's still not reopened to this day. Um, but they it was up for sale until the hurricane as a a tear down piece of property that they were going to build a home on and sell it for over $8 million. Again, if they want to reopen it as a hotel, I'm not opposed to
it. But I think that it is absolutely crazy for us to do it for $8,000 a year. That's costing the city money. And I definitely don't think a three-year contract, I mean, I don't think any of these contracts we do with businesses should be three years. I
think it should be a year max because things change. Um, but am I saying we have to charge the full $40,000 of the value of the property or if we want to get technical, $44,920?
No, I'm not saying that. But I think we definitely have to find a happy medium. I think um I just I think that is uh that's asking a lot of the city to give up that kind of a revenue source on
premium beachfront property. So that's that's my two cents on that. I don't >> I think we should start at 2400 as a bargaining, but I agree we should go to 5,000
for for those spots. Okay. That this one I I've been involved in this one for per over a year before the hurricanes. Uh this came up uh and they came back uh the your your uh predecessor came back with something
like $800 or $800 a year uh per thing and was feeling pretty good about it that it was going to generate the company the uh the city 50% more money. But, uh, off of that very low rate, it didn't didn't really amount to much. Uh, there are
obviously unusual circumstances here. This this hotel has no other parking spaces. The the years ago, just for the benefit of everybody that's not familiar with this, years ago, before G Boulevard, I guess, was four lane, people used to park right in front of
that hotel. And when it became Orlane, uh, that hotel lost their parking spaces. So, the city in its ultimate wisdom back in those days decided to let let the hotel lease out these for very,
very inexpensive rates. And I agree, I 4,800 a year for those eight parking spaces is is uh is very uh disappointing to say the least. Uh having said all that, we have a business that's not even open right now. And uh and even if it
was open, I'd say let's let's be to keep the to be business friendly to work with them. I would recommend that we give them, you know, a discount off of off the market rate. And if the market rate is $45,000, I think a 50% discount off of that would
be would get us generate us uh more money and be uh be reasonable to the hoteler to be able to afford. So what I would recommend is what is uh 50% off the going rate for that marking for that
parking space, which is roughly the 2400 that you talked about here. >> Mhm. So, you're saying like around the 20,000? >> Yes. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. >> Do we know and and I know you're probably not going to know the answer to
this. Do we know if they have pulled any kind of demo permits or are they in the middle of remodeling that or do they intend to reopen? I mean, do we have any of that knowledge? Because if we recall, their contract ran out over a year ago
and they had no parking signs and cars could be towed and they from that spot for them and they weren't even under contract. So, I'm just curious as to if and I don't know if if someone
from CDD can answer that. Um, but basically I'm just curious if if we do know if there's any kind of a or has there been a demo permit for inside to remodel? >> I don't have that information with me right now, but I can search for it.
>> I'm just curious >> and send it to our commissioners next week. >> Have you conversations with the owners? >> No, the only conversation we had with them is that they're interested on renting the updating the the parking agreement. Plus, they just paid the BTR
license, the business tax, and and they paid couple years behind. Okay. They just paid it. >> All right. Because, like I said, I I want to work with them, especially if they're going to rebuild. Uh but even if they're not going to rebuild, well, if they're not going to rebuild, then we they should should free those parking spaces up for
>> That's why And that's why I'm >> If they're not going to rebuild, then literally they could >> rent those parking spots out. >> Exactly. and make money off of those parking spots without So that's why I'm curious agreement the contractually states they can't they can't do that.
>> I understand that but they also had towing signs with their name on it for the last year and they weren't under contract. >> It also had it also had one element that the pre that the previous a year ago contract didn't and that's that that we can terminate the license agreement at any time with 5 days notice. So that so
if they do sell sell that piece of property and they >> right >> build a house on it that doesn't those eight parking spaces don't come with the property >> right >> we we would recover those at that time. But anyway I think I think the important thing here is to let's talk with them about what their intentions are. or if
their intentions are to rebuild or reopen back up then then then if the commission >> I think we need to know that because I don't want to give an I mean and I agree with you that if they intend to rebuild and and open I agree with the 20,000 I
think that's a a very more than fair deal. However, I think before we do that we need those answers. I would just like to know if if that is the intention cuz why tie up eight parking spots that we could be making $45,000 a year on
>> for a place that's not really intending to reopen as a business. >> So let's say they don't want or they're not planning to reopen this anytime soon. And so will be feasible to rent like two spaces for whatever their needs are at the moment and then leave six
spaces. I'm just guessing for the public open. >> I think that would be reasonable. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I I I'll make an effort to contact them and and talk to them together with our economic development uh director. M >> in my opinion and and I'm going to put
my two cents worth if if we were to do something like that on two spaces and it's not a a functioning business then I think we need to relook at cost because I don't know necessarily on price that I would go to the extreme
of doing 50% off per space if it's just two spaces. Um, but that's again my opinion, but I think that's where we'd have to in my I think that's where we need to start is finding out if that's their intention. If they get this, are they, you know, are there plans or have
they already started? >> So, I'm bringing this back in the next January >> fe I believe meeting. >> So, I motion that we table this until the next meeting for further information. >> Okay. >> Second. >> Motion in a second.
Any discussion? >> Thank you. >> No audience. >> Thanks, Victor. >> Participation. So, uh, roll call, please. >> Vice Mayor Vasquez, >> I. Commissioner Dicki, >> I. >> Commissioner Sison, >> I. >> Mayor Doctor, >> I.
>> F5, authorization to proceed with the consultant selection process for the Treasure Island master plan project. >> Okay. I'm gonna keep our public works director, our economic development
director, and our CFO handy here. Um, but we've just got a couple slides for you. I hate reading word for word. Um, but this is just a summary before you of what a request for qualifications
is. Um, I guess the big difference, many of you are familiar with RFPs, with the RFQ, you're you're looking for a particular set of skills, abilities, experience, um, you know, past work, things like
that versus just the low bidder, uh, approach like a RFQ. Um, so we would send out something similar to what's in your uh meeting backup
requesting uh people submit the scope of work. This is very general. It meets our procurement uh process guidelines. Thank you. Well, I'm your doctor. Um but we would want uh a little more
direction to add to the scope of services um as you're thinking and entering your discussion after this short presentation as to um where all this scope is applied.
So just a super brief um time frame. This can all be adjusted, but um if we got a scope of work out this month, um we could have have a due date of the end
of January to have it back. Uh start deliberating um having discussions with those uh individuals about exactly what we want them to do, >> get those tasks completed throughout the rest of 2026.
Um, this cost estimate again is rough. You're you're going off of qualifications and not exact uh dollars in the scope. Um, so the the direction I'm seeking from the council or the
commission tonight is is this every inch of Treasure Island? Is this north and south up and down Gulf Boulevard to the east and the west? Is this our downtown core? Is this the um the property up at
John's Pass? You know, where where what would you like exactly master plan? What portions of the city so that we can refine this and when we start talking to people that do this work, give give them some more
concise marching orders. So, just to be clear and understanding because the way you just said it, the way I would take it would be very similar to what Ardan and I said with the zoning, the PD zoning. I mean, I would think the areas that the PD zoning
are appropriate for would be the same areas that would be appropriate for the master plan. I mean, I don't know if that's But one question I have is do you mean like section it off or is a whole I just want to be clear or just
>> Well, I I we went back I I reread your motion, watched it. Um, and it was very clear you wanted a request for qualification. So, I took that me to mean that, not a request for proposal.
Um, but it didn't gear it towards any particular part of Treasure Island. And if there's a consensus among you, we want to use the same areas that Commissioner Dicki articulated earlier for the master plan that th those are big chunks of area and that's fine and
that that that's fine with us if that's what you want. I just want to be able to articulate that when we send our scope of work out. It's time to take a pill. Sorry. And uh
>> yeah. So does that answer the question? >> It does. Yeah. I just I wanted to be clear on that. I mean, in my opinion, again, I I don't see I mean, if we're if if we're going to move forward on getting, you know, the proposals in, I
think it basically should be on the same exact places that we talked about. I mean, I don't know if that's the >> No, I I agree with that. And I I'd notice on the handout or the the the uh work that uh not the work, but the
material that was loaded up in advance for us to take a look at it. Originally, it just said that Central City Corps, both sides of Gulf Boulevard from 104th to 112th Avenues. And and that was that was not what my thought I or or many people's thought was about a an overall
master development plan. So, uh, do should I read off those areas again for the benefit of of it being on record or or do you want to? >> Um, you can. >> Okay. It's it's RFH50, which is the west side of Golf
Boulevard, PR-MU Core, 107th Avenue, PRMU Golf Boulevard, the area known as the Gator Property, and the area known as the the Yacht Club property. So, any master plan should
include all of those areas. Uh >> that's four areas. >> That's five areas. RFHA50, PRMU core, PRMU Golf Boulevard, Gator Property, and the Yacht Club property.
Okay. Uh other questions or other concerns I had was the solicitation period. It looks like a 4month solicitation period and that seemed pretty long from the uh four months seem long. At least the research I did it
said most for RFQS most solicitation periods were 45 to 60 days. >> I believe that includes the award period that's where solicitation close and then evaluation and award. >> Okay. Okay. Uh and then the criteria I
had questions about that. One of the proposed selection criteria was relevant Florida experience. I was going to recommend we drop the Florida. I think we need relevant experience. Uh I was a consultant for many years in my uh uh
job in the newspaper business and and what was uh on the business side of the newspaper business. Not on the not on the news side, but uh I could work as easily in Miami as I could Detroit or or Philadelphia or Kansas City. It was very
transferable. And most of this type of work, I believe, is also very transferable. So, I would like it to say just relevant experience and drop the word Florida from that. >> I would be okay with with drop I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I was just going to say I would be okay
with if you didn't want Florida but coastal. I still because of >> my my concern is Florida has um statutes that are so complex on these things. It would be it would be
very difficult for someone from Wisconsin or California or Texas, whatever, to come into Florida and do this and not trip over um some Florida specific issues. I I just have
some concerns about that. I mean, I hear what you're saying, Ardan, when it comes to certain things, but when it's when I mean, this is infrastructure and and construction and and I mean, we are so many.
>> Yeah. to build. >> One of the things, and Joan, you uh you know this very well, uh when we're rebuilding Treasure Island, we need to rebuild and build bigger. We need to
have more residents that uh that are here. and talking about apartments and talking about condos and talking about and a lot of this is going to be right there in our downtown area because that's where the mixed use is coming in. And when you have mixed use, you it's
just what it says. You have retail, you have uh hotel, motel, you have condos or condoels. and uh that we need to have somebody that has, you know, an architect and a master planner, you know, that really can build up that
mixed use and how it kind of sets back when you it gets bigger as it goes back. And uh and so we need to make sure that and I'm sure there's plenty of guys that are out there and ladies that are out there that can do this type of work, but here when you actually look around us,
we don't see much mixed use at all. Uh, and that that's one of the things that needs to be developed and that's going to be the the two places that are probably best for that is going to be the downtown area and potentially the Gators property and uh and that uh
that's important as well. So yeah, you you had talked about the the residents and how to build our audience because our audience is going down a little bit, our residents, and now with the hurricanes, who knows really where it is, but it can't be much more than maybe 4,000 residents at this point.
>> Well, if the master plan was going to take, you know, kind of a a little lean toward some of those economic development issues we're facing, you know, we're looking to build the non-residential tax base. That's where the mixeduse comes in. We're looking to
add more um customers and foot traffic to the island because that's certainly important um to our businesses that are already here and those that could come. Um the opportunity to rebuild commercial
spaces that we lost, but also bring um modern um commercial spaces to the island. that allows us to diversify our business mix. That's certainly an opportunity for us um if this project were to move forward. Um yeah and and
again just from a you know increasing and continuing the momentum that you know we've we've started with some of these smaller winds you know again businesses reopening um redevelop recovery and repair um
happening continuing that momentum as we look to reestablish Treasure Treasure Island as you know the um paradise found that um we know that it is. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Do you have uh >> I I I do have some other concerns too. One was the timeline. Uh because what I've heard frequently, what we've all heard frequently is concern about, you know, does this now mean that it will be March of 2027 before we can start
building even start thinking about building something? Uh so I'd like to see some deliverables uh in during that period of time, not at you know March 2027 we get a PowerPoint presentation and a notebook full of full of recommendations. We need some action
steps going on during that period of time. And I think uh I I had uh left uh for each of the commissioners to read a suggestion that I had about the PRMU core about doing a a economic uh
feasibility study about whether whether our current code uh is it can you know can stand the test of time or or stand through this and and what I mean by that is let's let's use the PR cord specifically Pirate Square and and do an
economic feasibility study that the city pays for, not the not the developer, that the city that answers the question once and for all. Uh can that area be developed uh based on our current code? And if it can't, uh so that would be the
you know, question one is can it be built? And and if the the independent uh study says yes that it can, then uh then the developer is just going to have to figure out how to build 50 over one with the current density restrictions that we have. If it cannot be built, if a
independent uh economic analysis of it says that, you know, in this day and time you just can't build it, then it should come back with a recommendation as to what what it can what what is required that we need maybe need to go from, you know, 60 units per acre to 80
or or something else. It doesn't necessarily because what we've been talking about in both Pirates Square and in Thunderbird is going to the county maximums. And what I'm suggesting here is that we have some kind of intern. Am
I three minutes up? Uh my some kind of uh recommendations here early on in the process that would take a look at these special areas and say uh yes or no, they can't be developed and what those if they can't be, what the recommendations
would be for increased uh uh uh density or or floor area ratios of of that nature. So anyway, I guess what I'm lobbying for here is let's not wait till March 2027 to have a deliverable. Let's have some deliverables uh during the process. >> Absolutely.
>> I actually like I mean I really I I like that idea. I was looking over it a little bit in between the meetings and such, but I think it's a great idea. I think that's a perfect piece of property to do it on. Um my question is, do we do this in tandem?
Is that what you're That's what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that it might be might be phase one or part one of the of the >> Okay. >> master plan. >> Got it. >> Just so I'm perfectly clear, the master planner would be producing the work
>> possibly. Possibly. I'm going to hand this out to the uh city clerk, the city attorney, and the city manager as well. and I'll I'll make sure I send it to the city clerk to to post it on uh as an attachment to this discussion.
>> Put on the record. >> On the record. Thank you. >> Okay. Char, do you have what you need? >> So, I I believe so. I had made a note myself to come back in February after we've received the request for
qualification uh responses and kind of lay out a little bit more defined timeline after we're able to talk to some of these people and some kind of a phased approach which I think is what commissioners think he's talking to.
Maybe each quarter have some deliverables and you know be a be able to show some some progress along the nine month year and and smidge depending on what I don't
know yet that might come back. Is that sound palatable to everybody? >> Right. Do will we have a deadline? >> We have a deadline January 30th to have all the RFQS back. >> Okay. are the the the submittals and um
Victor would that be something we open like a sealed bid building a building we open them all at a certain time on a certain day. >> So now that we have uh these directions I'm going to be working close with the city attorney to see what type of RFQ. Now, um, another option we have is to
bring the RFQ here to the board for their approval and but that that would take them longer because next meeting is January 5th. But, uh, we can do it in house as well and I'll be working closely. So, I'm guessing is RFQ and if
it doesn't fall until CCNA, we we discuss that with the attorney, we can actually ask for for fees in the same RFQ. >> Okay. So, he's saying that uh January 5th we're going to be meeting next, which is true.
>> Can we basically get something out to each individual commissioner and each individual commissioner approve you know what what's there? >> So, and I guess that's >> but between now and January 5th, I think we could draft something if you wanted
to launch it on January 6 for 30 days or something like that. I mean, have we not already decided >> document >> what we want in the RFQ? >> I mean, is that that's what I'm saying. >> Yeah, I thought we already decided that. >> Well, I I think we did with some of the
exceptions that I talked about already. >> Uh, >> so everybody seemed good with the five areas >> in terms of the geographic. >> So, if this gets put together in the next week, can can you can we share it you share it with each one of us and we
give you our comments? Certainly. Certainly. And then um that com those comments would be used by the city manager to put together a final package. And that's that's fine outside of the sunshine because you're not coming to
any kind of a right >> a joint conclusion. You're just giving ideas. >> Okay. So, everybody's going to give me some ideas and I'm going to bring a final product back to you on January 5th, but you're going to see probably a couple versions of it, probably at least
to your initial one. And then, hey, you didn't get this right. I don't want that. >> I mean, you already have mine. So, and then again, the geographical area that I'm 100% on board with that. So, you won't get anything from me. You've already got mine,
>> right? Well, yours was a a great starting point. That's kind of what we use to rough out. >> Yep. >> What what you see before you Let me just get clarity, please, on the uh >> Florida. Do we care if they have Florida experience or not? >> I I still feel very strongly about that
that it needs to be I I'd like to get the best available, not not the best in county experience. >> And I feel it needs Florida. I mean, our our city attorney already stated that it I mean,
>> yeah, with the statutes >> with the statutes and everything else, it just could be a nightmare. So, I think >> construction way to construct I mean, you can't build a parking garage underground. I mean, >> yeah. >> Um, I just I think regardless of anything, I mean, what you said makes a
lot of sense. regardless of what our feelings are. The fact is we have certain restrictions in the state of Florida. So, I'm sure there's a variety of people out there that can do it in the state of Florida. So, we just have to look at it. >> Okay. >> So,
I'm So, do I need to make >> I'll leave the Florida in there. Um, >> put it together. Y'all vote on it on January 5th and we give it 30 days. >> Okay. >> For responses. Is that fair? And you'll have all five on January 5th. And >> I think that all we needed was
authorization to proceed. Giving you authorization to proceed. >> Got a lot more clarity than I >> I don't think we need a motion on that. Correct. Or would we? >> Do you want a motion? >> If in fact it's a split commission, you ought to
at least take a consensus of what you want. >> Okay. Okay. To give give firm direction because I'm not I know how you feel. I know how you feel. I don't I do know how you feel. I don't know how you feel. >> Well, I will make the motion. Um, I move
to direct the city manager to proceed with the request for qualifications, a solicitation for Treasure Island master plan with the perimeters and scope of service discussed in this meeting, including it being a uh, Florida experienced.
>> Okay. Do we have a second? Second. I second it. >> Okay. >> All right. So, we have a motion and a second. I I don't know. I'm a little confused here. Um, would you call roll? >> Okay. Vice Mayor Vasquez.
>> I. Mayor Doctor >> I. >> Commissioner Sison. >> No. >> Commissioner Dicki? >> No. >> Okay. That motion failed. So, it won't have the Florida experience in there. >> That's what I'm confused about.
>> Yeah. I'm confused because >> So now we're not going to proceed to get a consultant. >> Yeah. So I'm not sure what everybody's happy about. >> Yeah. Come on up. >> I'm very confused as to why we're happy
about this. >> Nobody's happy. Mark Hoey, District 3 and Arthur Sison still doesn't share my values. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, um, just a couple of comments
on this. Uh, I'm no engineer, no architect, and no attorney. Right, Becky? I'm no attorney. But the criteria that were circulated as part of the handout are extremely weak and inadequate for this kind of project.
This is huge. Can you see that you're going to make a decision to hire somebody that's going to affect the look and feel and construction of this city for 50 years or more? And all we have is a couple of page typewritten
pages. So, I'm not the only one who thinks that because when this was circulated amongst selected staff at the city, at least only one wrote back, and I'll
quote a line from that, from what I read, we don't know where we want to go and are relying on a vague scope from a consultant to tell us. I will stand corrected if I've overlooked something, but in my experience, I have
never seen such an unclear scope of services. That's exactly what it is. At least one member of the staff is willing to tell you that. Whether we're going to listen or not is up to you. But it is totally crazy that we're sitting here
doing this and making a few notes and sending our city manager out to find somebody in Florida that can match this thing with what little scope you have. Well, they'll fill in the scope to their
advantage, not to ours over time. So, I just implore you. We We heard it before. Every This is like I hate to say it, John. It's like the military. Hurry up and wait. We're in a damn hurry to get something done, but then we don't have
all our stuff together to move it forward. So, we're just not ready for this. None of none of us are ready for this at this stage until you have a better definition of what we want out of it. Thank you.
Okay. So, I I think what we need is a better scope of services just to tag along with that. And that's that's what I'm uncomfortable with. Uh the scope of service looked like it was, you know, downloaded from from uh AI, which is fine because I I do that a lot myself,
too. But I edit it. I I research it more. I get others opinion. It it does need the scope of service. It needs a lot of work. And I think we agreed as a group that you were gonna that we all gonna have an opportunity to to send you guys something to strengthen that scope of services. So I think we're good on
that. I think at least where did it go? >> I think we're went haywire was on the Florida >> uh discussion. >> But you were the only one who didn't want Florida. That's what confused me is the no vote when three of us wanted Florida. >> So that's what was confusing to me.
>> Okay. Well, it's 22. So, it's it is what it is. Fails failed. >> Let's let's work on the scope. I think we still all want a master plan, but we want a a much stronger scope of service. So, let's go ahead and work in that direction between now and
>> kill it. The motion killed it, did it not? >> You can certainly do another motion. >> I'm not going to All right. >> Commissioner Dicki, do you have a uh I I
don't have a a a alternative scope of service, but I certainly would like for the city to work on a on a a much stronger one and present it uh back to this group. then you need to do a motion. >> Okay. I motion that we direct the city
manager to proceed with a stronger and more indepth uh scope of service to go along with the request for qualifications for uh for the uh master development plan.
Is there a second? Yeah. All right. It uh it failed. Let's move on. Uh F6, Sunshade installation at Roselli Park Playground. I'm >> happy about this one, Kathy. I know a
lot of moms and grandmas that'll be happy about this one. Roselli Park is our city's ADA accessible playground. In the past, it had been shaded by a very mature bottle brush tree that everybody referred to as the tree. However, it was damaged by the
hurricanes this past year and it was removed. That shade uh tree probably shaded a great portion of that playground um leaving it now unshaded and very hot for most of our users. We do have two small um shade structures
that are on the east corner of the playground that provides partial shade. We've had Commissioner Vasquez and myself have received numerous um emails and calls about shading that playground. So, Commissioner Vasquez requested that
I receive a quote for shade sales and that's exactly what we did. It would shade the entire playground. Um, we have different elements. We have a shade structure or I'm sorry, a a play structure, two climbing apparatus, and a
swing. We also have a standalone swing over by the um baseball field between the soon to be pickle ball courts and the baseball field. The standalone shade structure was budgeted for this year, so we do have the funds to cover that. However, the remaining um funds for the
shade sales for the playground are not budgeted. And if approved, a budget amendment would be coming back to the commission for approval. So with that said, we need direction as to whether or not to um fund or to approve this
request so we can do a budget amendment and the city manager's purchase authority and um for this this shade structures. And just to clarify for those who before I do a motion to clarify for those who don't go to Rosselli Park, um it is a very very
active park. There are always people there. Unfortunately, throughout the summer, they could only go in the early early morning or they would have to go at dusk because one, it's artificial turf and anybody who has artificial turf or has been on artificial turf knows it
is way way hotter um than the average grass. Um, and that playground basically from 10:00 a.m. till sunset is in full sun. There is since since our trees gone, um, it is in full sun all day
long. And again, Kathy and I both have received numerous um, people begging us. Um, grandparents take their grandkids there, you know, parents take their children there. You know, am I happy about having to spend this money? None
of us are. However, this is a benefit to the very people, one of the small benefits to the people who are paying taxes. And this is a small win, but a win for a lot of families to be able to even on cooler days that is still
extremely hot because it's full sun. So, I just want to thank you for doing that. And um I move to approve the city manager to move forward with the contract presented by project innovations and spending authority in
the amount of $191,624.40 to project innovations. >> We have a motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. I will second it. >> Okay. Yeah, I'd like I'd like to discuss it. Uh I did go by there uh Vice Mayor
Vasquez and and you're right and I went by Sunday uh afternoon and I understand what you're saying because it was a relatively cool day and it was still uh pretty hot out there without the shade. Uh having said that, uh we recently installed at the playground on at the
Pavilion Park in Sunset Beach a shade uh around the playground there and at a cost of about $30,000. And I remember when that uh came up for discussion and I was hoping it was going to be approved, but uh I was really intimidated by that $30,000 uh price uh
price tag. Uh I understand what you're trying to do at this at at Rosselli Park in terms of covering the entire park. Uh given that we given our financial situation, our financial situation for this year is we really don't know what
our financial situation is. I don't think until we get our quarterly our first quarter report, we're not going to have a good sense of how our property tax revenues are coming in. Uh this year is very unique in terms of it is the first year following the the hurricane.
Uh we know what the the uh county tax appraisers office gave us as as a guideline, but we really don't know what what's going to be coming in. So I would like to do one of two things here. I'd either like to make a recommendation what whether we cut this project back to
one or two shades instead of seven at this point or table the item until next year after we've reviewed the first quarterly report to make sure that we're we're financially uh able to do this based on our on our property tax
revenues uh how they're coming in. So, I just think spending 191,000 of unbudgeted money uh for shades uh at this point uh is too uh is too premature >> unfortunately. And Kathy, you can speak
on this. Um I mean, I can speak on it pretty well because I'm at Rosselli quite frequently. Um, two or three shades isn't going to make one bit of a difference because it is it is a wide open park and you have swings, you have slides, you have the little I don't know
what that one thing's called, but where the kids run around on it. Um, and you know, I I I get it. Believe me, I don't like spending the money either, but this is something that actually benefits gives the taxpayer some benefit where
they're not, you know, they don't have a lot of places to go with their kids, let's be honest. And it's not like Isla Capri are the only people who use Roselli. People come from all over the place. And it is, you know, it's a it's just a sad it's a sad situation because
I I I don't like spending the kind of money either. Kathy and I talked about this and believe it or not, this was the less expensive option. So, it it really was. So, you know, to be able to uh to give that win to the
families, I I just think is imperative. Otherwise, it's just one more thing they can't go do because it's too hot. Yeah. Again, >> and then it's useless >> again. I if if we if we I would say by February or March, we'll know better now
where we stand financially. But I am, you know, a bit a tad bit nervous about about the property tax revenue and to spend almost $200,000 on an unbudgeted item. Uh that's why I was suggesting another shade or two to, you know, to temporarily hold things over. And I'm
looking at the photograph uh that on Commissioner Sison's iPad right now. So I and I understand that. But you know, it it would provide them at least some shade to to uh to get out of the sun for a bit, but uh that's a lot.
>> It's the equipment is the problem. The equipment and the turf is hot. It's not the kids necessarily getting out of the sun. It's the equipment's too hot to go on and the turf's too hot to walk on. That's the problem. What is the life of those shades? >> The next
>> has a warranty in here. So there's >> And they can be taken down in storms. >> Well, they are all taken down. We have quite a few shade structures throughout and we do take them down all pre hurricanes. So um I know you had a
warranty in here and it it's hard to tell, you know, like the one at Beach Pavilion didn't last. I mean it it did. It lasted about 8 n years, but it was also vandalized. Um, people got up on top of the play
structure and poked holes in it. Um, so that one actually didn't last really long. Plus, being right on the beach was um they didn't use the correct um hardware and stuff when they installed it. So, we struggled with with that one
at the beach pavilion. Um, it's limited 20-year nonprated uh warranty and then a 10year. So, I I would say probably 10 years. >> Okay. >> So, um I've been to Rosella Park with my kids. Um I know all about hot equipment.
Um with my kids getting burned on hot equipment. Um I do like the design. I think it's a lot of money. Uh without a doubt. Uh I share the same concerns as Commissioner Dicki. I do like the design though. So my question is can we uh put
up the you know do it in sections maybe and you know because I share the concerns with the property tax uh revenue and and so on but if we could just do the center uh main anchor and then do sales one two three because
they're covering the main uh playground equipment and then later on we could add more anchor systems and then add the later sales down the road >> and the cost would go up with that too. >> Installation cost would go up and so would eventually but I mean you can do
whatever what we've kind of done like with Isa Palms you know that has luckily natural shade but the swing set was um right in the direct sun. So we put an individual retrofitted the the equipment to have another canopy which is what
we're going to do to the standalone swing set um at Rosselli. You can do sections. It It just may in the long run cost you more. >> Is there a way to downsize it and not do that many shades and that many supports or
>> it it's the direction of the commission. One of the we have those two sales there now or the shade structures. And one of my questions was, well, should we remove that? And we decided to leave it because if we did remove it, you'd have that removal cost as well as the turf repair.
So that's that's the issue with that. Again, I believe me, I don't want to spend the money, but you know, it it's it is something that has been heavily heavily requested and these are people that are
living on our island and there's not a lot to do and they at least want to be able to take their families to the playground without burning themselves on the equipment. So, I it's I know it's a big ask, but it is one that truly the community has reached
out to not just me, but >> to uh Kathy as well. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. >> Public comment. >> Public comment. Seeing hearing none. >> Wait a minute. There's one here.
I just uh I just have uh not so much on the on on the sales you want to put over there, but uh I spent a good deal of my life in retail and uh where little things me meant a lot. And we had an
expression. You watch the pennies, the dollars watch themselves. I'm watching a fortune go out here today. You have no problem putting the gavl down. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry, Miss Vasquez, but um I think a lot of us would be a big no one
as considering our financial situation. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jeff. Okay, roll, please. >> Vice Mayor Basquez, >> I. >> Mayor Doctor, >> I. >> Commissioner Sison,
>> I. >> Commissioner Dicki, >> no. All right, that is the end of of our items of business. We are now on to uh reports. Uh I'm sure the attorney
probably is not prepared with because it's our first meeting with us. Uh but uh Charlie, do you have anything? >> Um one, thank you to the staff. Y'all have been uh great. the ones that are in here and the ones that are watching
really preparing each item. U one of the comments I got from I think every one of you when I arrived four months ago was we're tired of telling the city manager and the staff what we want and then them figuring out a way to not do it. And
that is not this team that we have. We're working very hard every day uh to to bring what we can get uh clear clearly uh from you. And I just uh tonight I don't have any earthshattering news. I would just like to recap our
next meeting will be Monday night, January 5th at 6 PM. Um I don't have a workshop item on for that night. I don't believe as of yet. It was originally going to be the PB and we moved it to December. Unless the mayor,
somebody contacts me and has a workshop item, I'm looking to see everybody in the public again at 6 PM on January 5th. Uh we're pausing our um efforts on the master plan and ready to respond uh once
given uh that direction. And um we've basically given a lot of information to the attorney uh tonight who's very well verssed in land development and she's going to work with Kimley Horn, initiate some contact and
uh make the phase 2 LDRs be able to accommodate PDS if um that's the the pleasure of the group. >> Perfect. Right. >> Excuse me. Excuse me. There are two items actually scheduled for a workshop
January 5th. >> Okay. So, we will have a workshop at 5. I Okay, >> that's why I asked for these things. I'm not >> Commissioner Vasquez. >> I will keep it short and sweet. Um I have received a couple of emails um
regarding our neighborhood signs like the Isaac Capri signs, the Paradise, and I I believe this would um be for public works for you Gary. Um, and it was a very good I I liked I liked the example was, you know, back the broken window
policy back in the day in New York was, you know, to improve neighborhoods, you know, just by taking the wood off and putting a window in. And it was an example used because like our entrance signs, a lot of our entrance signs are
broke um, and in disrepair. Half of them are there, half of them aren't. and just and I've had a few people reach out to me about this and say that, you know, is there anything on the books to have those repairs moving forward so
that at least it makes our neighborhoods not look in disrepair when we're going in. Um I know for us um the Isaac Capri sign is broke. Um, but I know there's a few of them around town and I know we fixed the main and we got the oranges out and the coins in
the Treasure Island sign. Um, but I think that's something we need to look at is is I think it's those it's the little things just like you know it's the little winds that start making our community look better and feel better. And I do think that that could make a big significant difference. Um, so I
just wanted to bring that up because I have received emails on that. Um, other than that, I'm looking forward to um the mayor and I have a conference we're going to um over the next few days. Hopefully we bring some good stuff back from that um over in Orlando. So
hopefully we have good things to say in January. And I just wish everybody a very merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah and happy new year. And um I just hope everybody has a wonderfully blessed one. Thank you.
So I like I would like to see uh for every agenda item a staff report attached. Um having staff prepare staff reports ensures that all uh that we all receive accurate, neutral and professional vetted information so we
can make informed decisions effectively and transparently. And then lastly, I don't know if we came to a consensus with the commission. What is the final ruling on commissioner requesting removal of consent agenda items to the items of business? So, is
it I don't think we ever came up to a conclusion. Is it one commissioner, two? Um, I've asked that multiple times. >> I wasn't super clear either. Um, would you can tell me, hey, if any commissioner wants to move it to
discussion, just go ahead and do it. I can do that. Or you could tell me if there's a particular dollar amount that you guys have in mind of something I can do do that or we can just continue to >> we need to be efficient. Efficiency is
important. >> Would a consistent policy be the best way to do that? I'd be happy to take a stab at >> draft. I would say that, you know, like for example the Treasure Bay one, you know, it's obviously in district three and I felt it necessary to bring it up because we'd save a little bit of money
and so I mean I think one commissioner, you know, and it's up to the rest of the commission what they think as well. >> Yeah, I would agree with that if just one commissioner asked because you're not pulling it off the agenda. You're just taking it from the consent to the to the main agenda. I I don't uh I think
one commissioner asked that. I think you should uh honor that. >> I'm sorry for interrupting. There's then it takes less of your time, you know, then you'd have to reach out to other commissioners to pull them and and then you're not doing the other work that you're
>> No, I'm fine doing that. I I typically meet with you guys one on- one before each meeting and if you walk out of the office and want to pull one, two, three, whatever, we'll just do that as we go and keep Lisa Marie on her toes.
>> Mayor, doctor, what do you think? >> Well, the way it's been going, I think it's just as easy to not use the consent agenda. >> Let's just remove consent al all together. Basically, consent agenda means that everybody's in agreement. Everybody's on the right direction and
you can clear up three, four, five, six things at one time. We've not been able to do that yet. >> Well, not on it's I don't think it was ever intended for high ticket items. Uh when we're talking about 75,000 or $300,000, that's a high ticket item. that we should just put a price
discussion. I mean like put a if it's >> let's just say 100 thou 75,000 or 100,000 or more that it's just put on the agenda. I mean I definitely don't want to do away with the consent agenda. I don't either. You know, it is there are a lot of things that can go on there,
>> but I I mean I personally would say like if it's if we're going to put a number on it, I would say anything over anything we get into six figures that probably should be discussed in a regular agenda. I think 50,000 is a lot of money. I mean, it's all >> I think it's real in inefficient. Bottom
line is is that the biggest things that you're going usually put on consent agendas are things that flow after our budget flow through the budget. Like uh if we're using an engineering ter,
you know, up to $200,000, but you're not spending it on any project that you're looking at, but you already have them in line to so that we could spend up to $200,000. Those are the type of things that the consent agenda swings right by because you
already have the contract. You're just basically reinforcing it after the budget process. But uh you know what the way we're using it is that we're just putting it down and uh and and if you really were concerned about the spending as you were, then it's it's okay. So
then we somehow we goofed and didn't you know we're putting things on the consent agenda that don't need to be there. They need to be on the the other item items of business. So >> is one commissioner able to pull it off or $100,000 or more?
>> One commissioner pull it off as my vote. >> I would agree. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's all I have. >> All right. I have several things. One is this master plan thing really went uh
sideways here, I think, on us because I wanted us to move forward on a master plan. What I didn't want was just limiting it to a Florida uh a Florida item. Now, we pushed it back for a whole another month minimum. And I' I'm very
disappointed in that. I'm very disappointed in myself for being being part of that discussion. I'm very disappointed for the commission because we couldn't make a decision to to move forward on that. But anyway, that was the you know, I think we this is our our
the public has spoken very clearly. We all have agreed we need a master plan and we couldn't as a commission agree on how that >> for the record. >> Yeah. No, you two voted for it, but that that one element that I I was voting against uh nonetheless. But anyway, we
got to figure we got to we got I we got to figure out how to not to just let sit on this for for the next 30 days. We need to figure out how to how to make some progress. Do you have a suggestion, Becky? >> Um yes. And possibly my
um my statement was what caused it to go offkilter and I did not intend that at all. And I'll tell you the reason for it. Um and I did not mean that it needed to be a Florida firm. Not at all. Um I
was the Rafaelis proposal to do this which was apparently the one which was approved by y'all. They are absolutely my favorite consultant. I've worked with them for I
don't know last 20ome years. Um they have great people in Florida. They've got great people in California. It's a national firm. When I saw what they had presented, they've got great planners all over the place, but in their presentation,
the the one planner they listed was a California planner, which which I found to be very distressing because I know they've got wonderful ones in Florida. Um, and that's I I just think that um
whomever the planner is, they don't even need to live in Florida. They could live in California. It doesn't matter. But they need to have experience in Florida. That's my only thought. And as far as, you know, I don't care about the surveyors. I don't care about, you know,
a lot of the different the financial people. I could care less where they're from, but I am concerned about the planner. And I I just looked in an email when when that was shared with me and about a week ago. Um, I commented, you
know, I love working with Ralph Telus, but I'm concerned the planner they designated is a California planner. And I dove down into his experience, and it didn't look like he had experience in Florida. And and I have personal knowledge that they have great planners
in Florida. And I just what I was trying to and I did a very poor job of doing it obviously. Uh what I was trying to get across is when they these big national companies that make proposals on things
like this when they are filling the slot for a planner they ought to be looking in their pool of planners who are from Florida and that's all I meant and and I apologize for not expounding on it more and saying what I really meant. I in in
no way did I mean we should hire a quote Florida firm because most of the firms that do this sort of thing are national firms. >> Um but they all have Florida components because you know Florida's big place.
>> Could that be rewarded in such a way that said it that says it has to have the planner needs to have Florida experience as opposed to >> Oh yeah. And that's what I intended to say and I don't think I said it. >> Okay. That's what it says. >> Well, it just said they need Florida
experience. I think they do. The company needs Florida experience. >> The company needs >> and my preference would be the planner would would need Florida experience. >> And you know, the meeting is has not been adjourned yet. Um y'all can revisit
>> issues um that came up if anybody would want to make a motion. I'm just throwing it out there. I think I would like again I don't I don't think I Yeah, I'll try to and and Tammy, you're better at making motions
than I am, but I I I think the only thing I was trying to avoid on here was was limiting it to a Florida firm, but if you say it could be a non Florida firm, >> yeah, I would expect it to be a non Florida firm, >> but has a has somebody on staff or uh
part of the process that can >> with with Florida experience. The planner needs Florida experience. >> That's That's okay. If you if we can weward that, Tammy, can you make it? Are you going to make me do >> Oh, geez. You're going to make me do it? >> I'll second. >> I'll second. Hold on one second.
>> Yeah, I'll if you want to try and write something, but let me finish my report. >> I hadn't finished either, but go ahead. >> Oh, okay. All right. Real quickly, uh the December 18th, I'm sorry, December 13th, Saturday is our uh on Sunset Beach
is the annual uh uh Santa stroll. Starts at 5:00 p.m. Uh but people start gathering at the pavilion around 4:00 4:30 uh for that. But it's a it's a great uh neighborhood event that uh you know has has three 400 uh participants.
It's lots of fun. Uh, so I just want to make pe make the Sunset Beach residents know that the date and time has been set for December 13th at 5:00 PM. >> All right. Um, one I I want to thank uh everybody out here because I think all
of you participated in one way or another in standing ovations and it was one of the best that I've ever seen. Um, and I I Diana, uh, the eyelets did one heck of a job out there working with the police department. Um, and everybody
just did a a great job. And I I'll tell you what, I'm proud of what we saw and what we did and all the all the fun we had. And hopefully it'll continue to grow. And a matter of fact, a lot of people would like us to see us do six events a year. I know, six events a
year. I mean, one every two months. So, just keep that in the back of your head. >> I would not be that person. >> Uh, pancake pancake breakfast. The Rotary Club is going to be doing the pancake breakfast this Sunday morning. So, uh before church, after church,
they'll be down there serving the pancake breakfast. So, please go down there and and uh participate. Um, I know that uh, Commissioner Vasquez basically said that she and I are both going to the Florida League of Cities uh,
conference in uh, in Orlando. And uh, here's the the one thing I'm excited about is uh, the AI piece of this. Um and they're basically working very hard uh with the governments and uh and the
cities and uh so uh we're being able to put together I think there were five cities here in Florida that uh has the the new software that's AI and the uh the software basically appears that it
could be for every five employees there are today it could go down to three. Um, and it's just because with the AI, it moves that quick, much quicker, and everything that you know, if you have to fill out this thing and you didn't do it, uh, the AI kicks it out so fast that, you know, the person doesn't even
have a chance to walk away from the counter. So, I mean, it it's going to be an exciting couple of years uh with this AI and uh and I think that uh it can save us money, but can uh it can make quality of life here on the island that much better as well. So, I'm I'm looking
forward to that. And that's all I have for uh for my report. >> All right, let's see if I can get this right this time. >> I move to direct the city manager to proce Well, I have to withdraw the other, do I not?
>> No, that that one already failed. >> Oh, it failed. That's right. Okay. Sorry. I move to direct the city manager to proceed with the request for qualification solicitation for Treasure Island master plan with the perimeters and scope of service discussed in this
meeting including that the planner have Florida experience. >> I'll second it. >> We have a motion and a second. Do we have any? Yeah, Mark, please. Yeah. >> Thank you. The world moves in mysterious ways as I've said. Mark Hoey, uh,
District 3 and Arthur still doesn't reflect my values. Um, this has been remarkable and again, you're the attorney, but I find it highly, highly suspect that the attorney is dictating
which policy, what's she's she's advocating for a vendor. I mean, what is the scope of work with the city attorney? It's to advise you on the legalities, I think, and that's what I've experienced in the last seven years
coming here. So, it's just high and I'm not saying it's bad information. Please, it's just highly irregular. Most of the people have left. So, now it's back on to have any comment into this. They're not here. It's highly
irregular. I know again we're in a big rush, rush, rush. We got to get something going. We got to build something, but you are making decisions for 50 years. You ought to have enough sense to think this through. You had a path.
You even acknowledged the scope of work is a skeleton. So by now jumping in and saying, "Oh yeah, let's go. Give her the keys and let her go." you still haven't done the scope of work beyond a bare outline. How how can that be? How's that
going to speed things up? Now, maybe we'll all go back home and go, "Ah, we passed that. It hasn't changed a damn thing." So, I just I I don't know where you're going. I know everybody's trying to get something done, but it seems
highly unusual. And I would appreciate Mr. Vanzant an understanding of the scope of work for the city attorney because this seems totally out of bounds. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Mark. I'll comment if
if I'm mayor is I'd like what I what I'm hoping we can accomplish between now and our next meeting is have let's not proceed with the request for qualifications. Let's proceed with with with and I I apologize uh u I apologize
vice mayor but what what I'm really was hoping that we'd get is let's make let's do some work on this between now and our next meeting as opposed to nothing happening. Let's work on the scope of services. Uh I again I agree before Mark ever got up and spoke and I read it. I I
was surprised and I and I you've read the comment that one of the city staff uh also felt that it was a a very weak uh scope of services. This is important. I was hoping we could again I don't want
to I know we can't send the the request for qualifications until the scope of service is done is done. And so how do we how do we direct the city manager to work on the scope of services and come
back to us at the next meeting with a with a solid scope of services for this job. So rewind to maybe 30 40 minutes ago when we were having this discussion. Where I thought I was going was we were going to go ahead and
refine the scope with the areas that you added, give Miss Voss a chance to take a look at it, send you back out a revised scope, get your individual feedback in, and then
massage it again. And on January 5th, I would at this point I would feel a whole lot more comfortable bringing a scope of work for approval um for the January 5th meeting which you would get we get the thing probably
finalized December 23rd because I think Christmas Eve is a Thursday, Thursday, Friday or Wednesday, Thursday something like that. So, you know, give us some time to work on it and then on the 5th, I think we could make a final tweaking of the scope of work. You could vote on
it. We'll send that scope out for 30 days. So, you know, might not even be the first meeting in February. We come back to you um sometime early February with the responses to the RFQ.
>> So, I'm going to agree with Marco on this one. I just Yeah. Um I'm like we got to clear up this uh Yeah. And I also agree that I definitely don't share the same values as him as well. So, but yeah, we get that clear. And I'm not
going to be resigning. So, that's number three. Um and I welcome the recall. Let's do it. So, other than that, uh are we ready for roll call? >> So, so the timeline I just briefed as part of this motion that works for everybody?
>> Yes. So, okay. So, should >> we need to vote this down? >> Do we do we then we can reject? Uh, >> I'll resend my motion. >> We can I I'll resend my second. >> So, so you got your your marching orders. You just didn't need us to vote
on that. >> So, >> everything I just said by consensus, >> yes, >> we're doing and I'll bring you something to vote on on January 5th. >> That's correct. >> Yes. Is that >> good? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Thank you everyone.