All right. Welcome to the city of Treasure Island Planning and Zoning Board meeting for November 20th, 2025. If you wish to speak on a topic which is on today's agenda, a speaker's card is available on the table over to my left by the
entrance and must be completed and given to the chairperson. Please do not address the board from your seat, but rather from the podium where your comments can be heard by all and recorded as required by Florida statute. Unscheduled topics may be presented
under the public comments section of the agenda. If everybody would uh please silence their cell phones and must stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Tia, if we could have a roll call. >> Gary Patenziana >> here. >> Ross Sanchez
>> here. >> Chris Downing >> here. >> Grant Smith >> here. >> Marvin Shavelin here. >> Richard Harris >> here. >> Thank you. And I assume that uh Mark and Daniel are did they say they weren't going to be here or
>> I did not hear from Mark, but Daniel and Valerie both did tell me they were going to be absent. >> Okay Gabe, I apologize for listen missing the last meeting. Um I think it's an excused absence due to the date being moved. So I apologize to the board
for that. I usually plan these out a year in advance. So my apologies. All right. Uh the minutes from February 20th. Any comments? Or could I have a motion to approve those? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> All right. Uh all in favor?
>> I >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, they're approved. Prior cases, anything changing? Um >> my apologies. I did not have a chance to get around to the status update sheet that we normally have uh next month. I
will have that to you. Um I can give you an update of like future ones for next month or we can wait until after we talk about next month's meeting at the end of the >> Go ahead. Hit us with next month. Go ahead. >> Take it away. >> So um so next month's PNZ which is going to be December 18th. Uh we're looking about two to three cases. Those will be
variances for stairs and the setbacks. And then some other future cases. Um we have a site plan for 10 dwelling units and that's also going to come along with a plat. And then another site plan for three town homes. Of course, that would be platted as well. And then we have a site plan for a coffee shop with an
outdoor dining area. And then a variance for a single family residence setback. And then a variance for a pool. And then another variance for stairs. And we have about I'm not quite sure on the numbers, but I know we do have a lot of DRC meetings scheduled coming up. And
typically those usually lead into some type of case come before the planning and zoning board. Um, so I believe we have nine of these scheduled. So that would lead up to nine more. I think a lot of those are variances, but I'm not sure exactly what th those meetings would be about. Um, I know a lot of
folks are calling me about uh raising houses and DRC's. I just explained to them, hey, try to keep your front balcony to three foot wide, your back balcony to 5 foot wide, and your steps in the front to a 5-ft encroachment. I mean, is that being I
think most of these raised houses can work within those limitations. I mean, are you getting that impression? I know there's some really weird ones out there like Barb Adams's lot, which is irregular as can be. So, I just uh you know, people spending a quarter million
bucks to raise a old house. We just need to help them any way we can. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um like as you know we passed those couple ordinances for like the balconies to encroach the meter platform. Um and then also we do have like the setback factor thing. So like if you do bring in Phil to help elevate
um there's like a calculations you can do that allow you also to encroach as much as possible depending on how much fill is brought in on site. >> So Richard, I do have an item that I want to bring up um during the new business discussion here. >> Yeah, let's do that. I'd like to make sure you know that Jesse you're around
because we may have some questions when we have discussion on that item. Uh will you be here for the whole meeting today? >> We're right. No PNZ today. >> You'll be okay. >> Yeah, I'll be here today. >> All right. We can talk about that then then. That's fine. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. We'll
refresh my memory and for the uh watching audience if there are any uh what is the latest on a Duke Energy platform? How far in a sideyard setback can a Duke Energy uh platform go in?
>> So, it's limited by the width, which is I believe the standard is 3 foot stair width. >> Three foot stairs platform. Yeah. So, the width of the stairs pretty much dictates >> the encroachment. Um if I recall, Jackie, she is here. Jackie Gver, um there was a representative for Duke
Energy. I'm not sure if they touched on anything else about platforms. I'll ask Jackie to come up and see. And this question is for a lifted or being raised house, correct? Not a brand new construction. Correct? >> Well, and and it's really the new construction that I would wanted to bring up as new business later today
regarding this because if whether we want to get into that now or later, it's up to you, chair. >> Well, let's get into it later. We got uh people in the audience that are here for their cases. So, let's get into that a little later. Yeah, Jackie. Uh, we need
to talk at you anyway, so we'll talk to you later. Anyway, uh, let's see. Hearing procedures, city attorney, you got anything you need to tell us? >> Well, um, first of all, my name is Nancy Stuperidge and, um, I'm an attorney with the Vos Law Firm. We are very um,
honored to be here working with Treasure Island um, and me today working with you um, as the planning and zoning board. Uh, I'm not going to tell you that I'll be here at your next meeting. It might be Ralph Brooks. I think some of you may
have seen him um at the city commission meeting um this past Tuesday. Um I think you all are pretty seasoned on the conduct of uh quasi judicial hearings. Um so just very briefly I'll say a few
words uh to fulfill the uh agenda item. So today before you you have um a variance, you have a special exception and you have a site plan. And these type of land use approvals have been determined by Florida courts to be quasi
judicial in nature. So what that means is that your hearing uh on these items is going to be just a little bit more formal than the remainder of your meeting. Um, and the reason for that is these individuals are coming forward to
you and um asking you to make some changes to their private property rights as far as the regulations that um are imposed upon them or um the requests that they're asking uh to change. Um so
because of that there are some basic um fundamental due process considerations. The first is that the uh property owner received notice of today's hearing and generally when they're present they've gotten notice, right? Um also that the
second uh component would be that the city staff has actually applied the correct part of the land development code to the request that has been provided. And lastly, and this is where your responsibility really comes in,
there is criteria that is established in your code. And your job, your responsibility today is to make a determination if that criteria has been satisfied based on evidence and testimony that is given to you today.
Um, you can vote um the majority would of course vote for approval. There might be some conditions attached to that. In the event that the majority votes for a denial, you do need to set forth what the basis for that denial is. The denial
should be based on the lack of competent substantial evidence, testimony or documents that a criteria item has not been satisfied. It should not be based on um an opinion or mere
flaws that you might have. I know we don't have too many in the audience today, but that can happen sometime. Um and with that said, I do want to mention that the courts have found that testimony by experts um has been viewed
as competent evidence uh to show that a particular criteria has been satisfied, but also testimony from residents who have personal knowledge and information about a particular uh criteria that
might be before you for your consideration. I think with that said, I've kind of given you a summary. Um, again, we'll be a little bit more formal now, but then at the end of your meeting once your quasi judicial hearings have concluded, we'll go more into a
legislative type setting. So, um, Mr. Chair, I think at this point it would be appropriate to go ahead and have the oath administered. I Is it the clerk that is doing that or >> Yes, it is. I did have one question for you because this is something I since you brought it up, you know, the
testimony. This is just my past experience. >> Yeah. >> When you have a individual giving testimony of any type, is it appropriate to ask them their uh background, what their field of
expertise is? Because obviously if you are >> Oh, I'm going to pick on myself >> and the other we have one other engineer on the board here too. We'll pick on these engineer types. If they're engineers, obviously I feel that they their testimony has a little more weight
behind it. So I always like to know what these people's field of expertise is. That's appropriate to ask. >> Absolutely. In fact, I would even suggest that you go one step further and that you take a vote or consensus that they are an expert on a particular area
such as engineering. um that really adds a lot more um ability to defend a decision based on the testimony that they give you for that criteria. >> Thank you. Okay, John Doctor, that one
was for you. I hope you're listening. >> He's the mayor. Anyway, let's go ahead. Tia, if you would, if you are in the audience today and expect to speak on any of the cases, please uh be stand and be sworn in.
Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony and evidence you're about to give before the planning and zoning board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any exparte uh communication on
any of these three cases today? Seeing none, we'll keep on moving forward. Okay. First case, variance 0000562-2025-11525 G Boulevard a marine variance to section 69-71
A5 to permit a 14x 16 boat lift to encroach 14 ft into the 20 foot setback. If the applicant is in the audience today, can you please approach the podium and state your case? Uh, good afternoon.
My name is Gary Debo from Debo Marine. Um uh good afternoon planning and zoning board members. Um I want to thank you for being here today and doing your duty for the city of Treasure Island residents in this in the city. Um I know
some of you longtime residents here. Um, I did want to say uh that lately uh the permitting has been going pretty well with Stephanie and Bianca and everyone we've been dealing with. That's been kind of nice compared to some of
these other cities we've been dealing with. Um I thought you were going to do the the your presentation for the first >> Oh, no. I'm next. >> Oh, okay. No, we actually get let the
applicant state his case first because the problem in the past and I must admit I changed that the city would make their recommendation and a lot of times they'd recommend denial and it put you in a bad position. So you get to go first and that is the reason why.
>> Well, I'm I'm here today on behalf of my customer uh Mrs. Nicolova and her family requesting uh granting them a variance according to the code. Um, according to the code, I I was going to say that Jesse explained, but since they
flopped it, um, uh, we're putting a cradle lift, uh, 16,000lb cradle lift and an existing slip. There's 17 slips um behind the condos and it's number 17 which is on the end and it's uh in this
inside the 20ft setback. Even though it's an existing slip, all the other you know slip owners are able to have lifts without coming to a variance. Um anybody have any questions or
Well, so so the slip was existing prior to this request that >> see I see where you mark the two existing tide poles. >> Yeah, that was the old Jolly Roger if you remember. And then uh this is
Catalina Grand. They built those all those slips when they did the condos uh 2005. >> I see. >> So this is a better picture of it. Condo association. It's got slips. The ones on the very end, like this is saying on the highlight, if you put a lift in, it's
going to encroach on the setback. >> I see that. Yeah. And but the tide poles themselves are already in the setback. >> Yeah. It's an existing slip. Yeah. >> An existing slip. That That's what I'm trying to get to. >> So tide poles are allowed to be outside the setback or on like on the like would you have a house with tipoles? You can
have that. It's the lift that's the problem. >> But that's why he's here for a variance. So there wasn't a pre previous variance to get the tip poles. >> No, when they when they when they built the project, if u it's it's not on on there, but
>> if you if you and I lived right next to each other, I could put tide poles basically on my property line. >> Yeah, that's the way the code reads anywhere in the city. >> Good. No, I appreciate the Now I understand then how we got here. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Thanks. Um, I've got a uh I've got a poster board that I'd like to show kind of old school if that's okay if there's any other questions. Um, I do know U slip one was installed
in 2019 and it did not have to go through a variance hearing. Um, just I guess it's somebody else's interpretation, but they're uh uh 9 foot 10 in or actually a little bit right right next to the tide poles. They're uh what like
9 foot 10 inches away from the property line on the north side. And uh excuse me extra curricular kind of sorry for the old school presentation here. Not much
for this is okay see all this. >> Is that a good spot for this or somewhere else? >> Perfect. Yes. >> All right. So anyway, >> you'll still have to talk to the microphone though, unfortunately for benefit. >> Okay, let me pull it back a little bit.
>> So, as you can see on the C Catalina Grand Condominiums, you got Gulport Boulevard in front. There's building one and building two. Um, this is the view looking down the north side of the property. It's got a retention area coming back. And there's the
um you can see the lift that sticks out past the the the building set back. And of course, here's the property line. Um this is a view. This next picture down is a view from the north side property
line looking down the seaw wall. Um the property width is what is it? Uh 303 feet altogether. And you can see the all the lifts that are in. Um this is about halfway down slip number 10.
Um and there's another picture looking at the north side property line. Um this picture here is from the is from the canal. Uh the slip is right here. And this is the slip looking at looking
at the condo. And this this property over here is in um you know the hotel in Marina and he's given us a notice of a notorized
letter of no objection next door and they are the adjoining property owners. And then of course this is the right side property line that looks down and you see that's that's the slip number 17 basically in the same position as this
one. It's just going to be over a few more feet. >> And there was no lift here prior to the storm. >> No, there was no lift there prior to >> And there are some of these slips already in the middle that don't have lifts on them. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. >> But I mean, there's nobody that has a
boat that's sitting in the water. >> Okay. Let's let the man finish his presentation and then we'll have time for questions. >> Yeah. >> Gez. Let's have a little chorum here. So, and then of course this is um so that's
looking at the slip from the from the canal side. And then here you can see base uh base side in and this is not a slip. That's right in between the the two the two slips. That's his first slip which would be over here. And this is looking at the slip right here looking
north um at the marina. And you can see the other slips that are that are in there and And that's actually the slip looking out from the property. And these two pictures here I figured you like to see I took these from the
bridge that's showing Bayside in here and Grand Condos and Estrada. And you can see I mean a lift putting a lift in that slip would be consistent with everything that's over there on that on that side of the
canal. I think I've explained the pictures and stuff. If y'all have any questions. >> Okay, now's the time to ask questions. Go for it, people. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Are the are the boat slips attached to each unit or are they sold separately?
>> Um, >> so like if >> I I think that you you know when they bought the units originally, they had to buy the I I don't know exactly if they came with the units back then. Okay. >> But, uh, they had to purchase that that slip. >> I get that they had to purchase it. So,
I'm just curious if that unit like if the if if slip 17 is attached to that >> home that's in that property. >> Well, it it is now that she purchased it. >> Okay. >> You know, earlier this year. >> Well, sometimes they're separate transactions. They're
>> It is It's It's deed separately. It's It's taxed separately. >> Yep. Okay. Understood. >> All right. Thank you. Yeah, I don't have any questions. >> On the property to the south, immediately adjacent to it, I see that there are dock tie piles there. Are
there lifts on that property also? >> On the south side, you meaning the the marina? >> Yeah. >> The there's a property adjacent to >> Yeah. Bayside Marina. >> Does Bayside Marina have lifts? >> They do have they do have uh one lift. He has one lift. He just has slips
because he rents the um you know, they rent It's a hotel motel, so they rent and people bring their boats obviously, but there's a uh there is a lift in the very corner. Um I did I have a picture of it, but there they do have a lift on the on their south end of their
property. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Yes. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> It's technically not a marine. Technically, it's called a marina on the sign, but it's not a marina. Make that very clear. >> Technically, it's not >> cuz that's a different class. Okay. if
you would have a seat and we'll have the city staff give their presentation. >> Mr. Chair, may I ask the board a question? Um, so you have been looking at some photographs. Um, does the board want to enter those photographs into
record? Into the record? >> Yes, we do. >> A motion for that. >> Let's have a motion to enter that exhibit into the uh record as evidence. >> I will make a motion to add the applicants
board of pictures into the record. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? No. >> Good old style presentation. >> I'm glad you appreciate that. My daughter was laughing at me about it.
Thank you. >> Okay. Go ahead, Jesse. All right. Um, so just a reminder, yeah, this says case number V A-00562-2025, um, which is a marine variance request to section 69-71 subsection A5 to permit a 14 ft x 16 ft boat lift to encroach 14
ft into the 20oot setback. And this is located 11525 Golf Boulevard. Um, just like a little background. Um, so the waterfront width is like 302 feet. Um there's two existing multifamily structures with a total of
20 dwelling units and this allowed for nine multi-use private docks of which have a combined total of 17 boat slips on this property. Um so for lots greater than 60 ft the minimum size setback is required to be 20 ft from the extended
property yard lines. Um so the I already stated the applicant's request. Um, but I do want to point out it was brought to my attention in the staff report underneath the history and background. The applicant is requesting a variance to reduce their right side setback for a boat lift. That's actually should be by
14 ft, not 16 ft. So, I'm going to have to adjust that before we get the development order. And then also from 20T to that should say 6 feet, 6 and 1/2 ft, not 4 feet. So, just a correction on the staff report on that one I want to point out. And then as you've already witnessed,
this is the the uh 17 slip dock layout. And then this is just a closer up just showing you where that encroachment is actually going to be on the site. Um okay, so staff's analysis, this is stated in section 69 uh 69-91.
Um so criteria one, the applicant does not appear to demonstrate through substantial competent evidence how a literal enforcement of the provisions of the city code would result in extreme hardship due to unique nature of the project and the applicant's property. Criteria two, the variance being sought
is not the minimum variance that will make possible reasonable use of the applicant's property. The applicant will be able to continue to utilize the boat slip in its current configuration as a wet boat slip without the granting of the requested variance. Criteria three, the granting of the requested variance
will be in harmony with the general intent and purpose of the chapter. If the board finds that there is an extreme hardship due to the unique nature of the property and the variance request is the minimum variance that would make possible the reasonable use of the applicant's designated boat slip. The variance may create adverse effects on
the adjacent properties. Although the adjacent property owner did provide a signed letter of no objection, a variance would run with the land against future property owners. Uh so staff's recommendation staff recommends denial of a marine
variance request to section 69-71 subsection 85 to permit a 14 ft x 16 ft boat slip to encroach 14 ft in a 20 foot setback based on the f the following criteria. Uh the applicant has not demonstrated through substantial compet evidence that a literal enforcement of
the provisions of the code would result in extreme hardship due to the unique nature of the project and the applicant's property. The variance being sought is not the minimum variance that will make possible the reasonable use of the applicant's property. The variance may create adverse effects on future adjacent property owners. And that is
all I have and staff's available for questions. >> Jesse, I have a question. Um, in regard >> second, Ross, I I'm chairman. I get to go first. >> That's fine. Have at it. I know you're going to ask the same question I am, so you might as well hit it. >> Anyway, um I forgot my question. Go
ahead, Ross. Classic. >> That's great. >> Truly classic. >> Uh he had asked you you should ask the chairman first if he has any questions then you can come to us. >> No kidding me that time. >> Um in regards to slip number one that is
has a lift that is over the setback. Was there any historical data that you were able to find on how that was approved? I'm not basing my decision on it. I'm just curious because I like symmetry. I get the property. Um so I was curious if you researched anything on slip one.
Yes, I did look up that permit. Um, there was a letter that was provided by CDD which stated that it was a preliminary approval and they said they could put that boat slip in, but just I'm not going to cut down staff, but they staff member at that time might not have been aware that this 20 foot
setback was in effect at that time. >> Okay. >> All right. Who Marvin, >> so I'm not sure if this is for you or the city attorney. How does the letter from the neighbor play into this? I mean, obviously the neighbor doesn't
have an issue with it. I mean, to me, there's no hardship here, but >> if the neighbor says it's not a problem, does that >> Well, it it isn't specifically, again, we're not counting heads, how many for, how many against? Um, however, it does
your criteria. I believe the very last one, um, will be in harmony. Um the one of the concerns that staff had was that it could create um adverse effects on future adjacent property owners. So you
through the letter you have an indication from the existing property owner that they don't they disagree basically that it would have an adverse effect. So it's it's information for you to consider.
Can we base our decision on something like that or >> that that information would go to one of the criteria that you that um your code contains. So it it's persuasive. Um if you believe that the letter is a true
and valid letter. Um it's hasn't been fabricated or or anything to that effect. Um you haven't heard any testimony from anyone to negate that. Jesse, is there any indication that there's that the letter I mean the letter seemed to be legit?
>> Yeah, I have not received any complaints or negative feedback from any other neighbors that were this was advertised. >> It did have a uh >> certification >> certification. It was notorized. >> Yeah, it's in our it's in our packet. >> Yeah, that's actually that's actually
>> So Jesse, let's just break this down for a second. If you if Gary and I are neighbors, right, in a residential community, I'm building a dock or he's building dock, either or. And his lift is going to go over the setback and I sign something because I I've done this
before with residential. It technically wouldn't need a variance. It can kind of go through, right? In the in the residential world, >> that would be a variance that would just go along with the permit application. >> It would go along with the permit application. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's because this is commercial why this has to come before
the plan. >> Okay. That's so that that that clarifies a lot for me because I know that in the residential world, it could go through if both neighbors are if one neighbor wants to build something and the other current neighbor signs off on it and it goes I actually think you did that on
your property. Um I had a neighbor do it for me in in my last property. So >> this is because it's more of a commercial situation on how it's zoned and that's why it's >> okay. All right. Interesting. >> Jesse, could you uh be any be more
specific about the potential adverse effects that staff sees? >> Um that could be here. Let me bring up the layout again. So just like if you look at this aerial image. So say the applicant to the south
if this boat slip I mean if this um boat lift was put in in dock 17 and then the property owner on the south also would want to put one in as well too. The property owner then to the north could be like no because we already have one that's already almost up next to the
property line and we would still want to keep a little bit of space in between them. So it it would basically fall upon the property owners at that time if they would agree or not. >> So it would prevent the property owner to south. It just would have to go through a
permission. >> Yeah. So if the property of the south would come in and they would want to do this exact same thing, they could get a letter from this property owner saying like, "No, we object to that." >> And it would still be a variance. >> Yeah. Yeah. that would still have to come back for the planning >> and then future boards could look at it
and say well a previous I'm not saying you're basing the decision off previous board's decisions but there's a history of okay well they did it for this one slip that's adjoining to the property line basically the roles are reversed okay interesting
>> all right anybody in the audience to speak to this case other than the applicant seeing none I have no cards any comments that the applicant would like to make. >> Yes. >> I think it was Ross. Were you asking about was somebody asking about a
picture of the lift that's on the south property? Was that you? >> This is one and and I believe I have the actual permits for this one and the permit for the uh the north lift. um that was pulled and and he pretty much
uh you know said it they it was signed off um without having to go through a a hearing and um >> hold it up for the camera. Also wanted to give you a few more pictures uh just kind of let you know. They said there's
no hardship, but I don't know if if you know how many y'all have boat lifts and live on the water, but um if you have a you know 60 to a $300,000 boat, you're not going to tie it up and leave it in the water. I mean, it's just not going to happen, especially if it's new. Um
I'd like to give you all some pictures from this past storm. lift. And this is the exact type of lift we're going to be putting in. >> Jeez, you burned a whole ink cartridge on this presentation. >> You know what? I'm kind of old school. Sorry. >> You don't have to apologize.
>> I built doc's not computers. >> What are you saying? You're You're saying that this is the lift you're putting in? >> No, this is one that went through the storm with the boat on it. It's a 30 foot boat. Um this this was up. >> Yeah, but I don't think Yeah. Okay.
just kind of give you an idea of uh you know if this >> for instance if this boat was uh left tied up in the water because the way the rule reads they could leave their boat tied up in the water but they can't have a boat lift. >> I don't know why we're looking at this
one because this is a 30,000lb lift or 28,000 >> that was that's from behind Robbies that just got put in. Um that's another one that was there during the storm and that was permitted. Um, could you tell us do you know how long the owners owned the boat slip?
>> Uh, I think it was uh they bought it in like February when it came up for sale. >> So it was this year. So their new owner. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And it'll double in value after this approval.
>> Anyone? I mean, I I find it hard to recognize the hardship. I know that's a criteria that we do have to meet. You know, I don't see that this is an a lot that is, you know, unconventional
or or or different than most lots that are in this zoning. Um, so I I know in the rest of the board that you know we do have to make a decision based on on hardship and recognizing whether there is one or not. I find it hard to find a hardship in
this. >> Okay. Any other comments the applicant has? >> U not that I can think of. >> Okay. With that we'll close the public hearing. I I'm going to start off with a couple of comments. Um the condo that we're dealing with is 20
unit condo. There's 17 boat slips. This will be lift number 11. Uh number 12 rather. There are 11 existing lifts. Bayside next door. 13 boat slips. One lift. I mean, if you go out there, and I think most of the folks on this board
have boats. I know I do. And you do not leave your boat in the water any longer. I left my boat in the water for a week. I had a great crop of barnacles within a week. And uh it's just ridiculous to own a 30 $300,000 boat with any idea of
leaving it in the water for any length of time. And this is not a residential area, so to speak. I mean, it's in the RFM district. U look at the aerial photograph. There's 30 boat slips on
those two pieces of property. It's just one big boat slipped area. So the situation is is is it a true hardship? No. But it runs into the situation of no
harm, no foul. I don't care. I want to help out our neighbors and give him a boat lift so he can not have to put that damn bottom paint on his boat and scrape for barnacles every year. So I'm going to support this 100%. Any other
comments? >> None here. Ross, any >> No, I'm just waiting for the board to finish discussion and then I'll make a motion. >> I I agree with Richard. I'm a boat owner. I wouldn't want to leave it in the water. >> There is no hardship though. I don't
think there's really a hardship, but the fact that the neighbor next door is okay with it. Like Richard said, let's help out our neighbors. So, >> if you really want to get down to it, we'll call it a hardship. Putting leaving your boat in the water. Number one, we saw a lot of sunken boats out
here. I was out in my boat the other week. There's a jet ski over there by Hanala Palms that's still floating upside down after over a year. You know, let's uh make this a safe situation during after Hela. You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff floating down the
pass behind up Blind Pass, including boats. So, you know, it's a safe situation. That is the hardship in my mind. So Ross, if you would go ahead, Chris. >> So, as much as I really would like to
support it, um as my colleague next to me here um had a hard time seeing the hardship, I do as well. Um the owner obviously purchased this uh as a wet slip. Uh doesn't meet the criteria and there's not really a hardship. So, I don't I I think there could be an
alternative that since there aren't lifts on several of the other slips that perhaps they could do a um a property exchange, a slip exchange, it may cost this property owner some money to do that, but it would stay within the rule and they would be able to u put a lift
in without getting a variance. So, unfortunately, in my case, I can't support it just directly. >> And at the very other end, there's a boat lift. So, that's a ridiculous argument. I mean, geez. Well, it's I'm not saying anything about the we're not supposed to be setting precedent based on be. But damn, look at that aerial
photograph. There's 30 slips there and there's 12. This will be the 13th lift on those two piece of properties. >> Like I really I do want to support it. I just don't see a way to do it. >> Jesse, like I just said,
>> it's a situation where it really makes no difference. Let's help our neighbors out. Let's do the right thing and let's make sure that during the next Helen, which is coming someday, let's not make sure that this guy's boat, I mean, I saw a boat right
down the path from this sunk down by the bow and it was really bad looking. And uh you know, it's one of those situations where if we're just going to be stupid and uh read the rule book, >> then let's just disband this board. And
in the meantime, Ross, if you want to >> go ahead and make a motion. >> Hey, Jesse, in regards to our packet, um, you had said you wanted to make some edits. Can you just give me the edits that you would prefer, uh, for our packet to read in regards to me making a
motion. It's still 14 by 16T boat lift to encroach. I think you said 12. >> Uh, so underneath the history background section in the staff report. >> Oh, okay. Start the second paragraph. It was advertised and the development order is stated correctly. It was just in the
paragraph. >> Gotcha. So development order is stated correctly within our packet. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh in if the there's no more board discussion, I'll make a motion in regards to case number V-00562-2025 at the location 11525 G Boulevard number
2011 Treasure Island, Florida 3376. Um, I'll make the motion as a planning and zoning board member, uh, that the board has determined that an extreme hardship does exist pursuant to section 69-91 of the Treasure Island code of ordinance.
And I will make a motion to move uh, with approval, a marine variance request to section 69-71A5 to permit a 14 foot x 16t boat lift to encroach 14t into the 20 foot setback.
Second. >> I totally second it. >> Okay. Thank you, Ross. Motion by Ross Sanchez, second by Marvin Shavelin. He beat you to it, Gary. >> No problem. >> If we could have a >> Can I just ask just for recordeping? Um,
there were some additional photographs that were presented to you as well as the agenda materials. Um, those are included in the record. Is that correct? Just a consensus. >> Yes, that's fine. >> Thank you. >> They do nothing for >> Okay. to you if we could have a roll
call vote. >> Gary Patenziano, >> yes. >> Ross Sanchez, >> yes. >> Mark Sojeski, >> Chris Christing, >> nay. >> Grant Smith, >> yes. >> Marvin Shablin, >> yes. >> Richard Harris, >> yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Go build a boat lift after you get all those permits. You're a
competitor who just sold his business. Uh Mark Spieler said it drove him out of business getting all these permits. >> It's it's mind-blowing. Too much. >> No, he said it. >> They're both sold. Yeah, >> for an existing dock, it was taking him
6 months to get a permit. And I understand that the his buyer bought Doug Spieler out as well. So, you got some interesting competition. Congratulations on your staying in business. Let's move on to the next uh case.
>> There you go. We'll probably all need you eventually, us that have docks. Okay. Number 10B U special exception- 00008
excuse me 580-2025-2 92nd Avenue special exception request for a single family residential dwelling as regulated in chapter 68 division 4 RFM30 is the applicant here today. Please uh
approach the podium, give us your case. >> All right. Thank you for allowing me to come in today. Uh my name is John Horak. I'm here to represent my wife, Vicki Careway. She's the listed owner on the property. And um a little background
about 292nd Avenue. We purchased it in 2017. We moved in in 2019 as our primary residence and we used that home as our sanctuary during COVID. Uh my wife is a uh cancer nurse and she operated out of
there during the entire COVID um scenario. Uh I myself am a healthc care construction executive. I worked for John's Hopkins All Children as the director of construction. I'm a certified licensed uh general contractor, a certified healthc care
constructor under the American Hospital Association and a certified healthc care facility manager also under the American Hospital Association. So, this is our background. Um, it was a great little house, 768 square ft. You might
recognize it from the channel 8 uh news story that they put out last year standing in front of our house talking about the challenges people are going to have with substantial damage. Um during Hurricane Helen, various um cabanas from
the Gulf floated through and smashed through the side of the house um leaving it uh 33% standing there. It was determined 66% substantially damaged. And so we we had to tear it down. Knowing that it was uh substantially
damaged, I started reaching out to um Katherine Yncan with the city in November of last year, trying to get the rules of engagement, if you will, on what we can and can't put back on the property. And it was more in regards to
the 768 square ft. There was a lot of discussion and conversation over um maximum lot coverage being 50% allowable maximum lot coverage. Um the subject of being a commercially zoned lot versus a
residential structure really didn't come to mind because it has been a residence since 1949. I you know it was thought at the time to be grandfathered in. After further review and a DRC, it was determined that
there never really was a variance to put a residence on a commercial lot. Now, I don't know, it's chicken in the egg, whether the the residence was there first and then the zoning was changed to be commercial or vice versa. Nobody
knows that. Um, so this puts me in a position of cart before the horse. I undertook an an effort with a local architect, Alex Rios and Associates, working within the 50%
maximum lot coverage and the setbacks as were deemed in the code um with 15 on the Harrow side, 10 on the 92nd Avenue, five between lots, and no setback
between the rear um because it's a corner lot And the chapter of the code is very odd in that it says um Carol Avenue between 91st Street and some other street there are specific east and
west rules. So over this past year I've worked with the city on nailing down those rules and this is what's shown on our current site plan. Um we're probably going to be discussing site plan and variance at the same time
or not variance but special exception because one is tied to the other. And um our current our current plans are to put back u a house that's suitable for our retirement. As soon as uh I get this house finished, I'll be moving back. We
had to leave obviously after the storm. My wife is a a chief nursing officer for the Miami Cancer Institute. She was in Miami. I was here working at John's Hopkins. I left my job at John's Hopkins and move moved to Miami to have a place
to live. And so in in one step, that's our hardship, having our place to live. In the second uh sense of hardship, if you look at the lot, uh it's got everything working against it. It's 218
square feet, which is smaller than most people's homes. The lot itself, the lot is sort of oblong and odd shaped. It has a shorter distance on the on the left, which is the west, and a longer distance on the east. Um, hence the design of the
house. Even the balconies have been uh designed at a slope or an angle to maintain the uh the proper setbacks. Um, the original house that was on the property uh was 1 foot over the property line on the north and 1 foot over the
property line on the west. So, whatever the plot was drawn, the houses that were in that area were not taken into consideration. Um, my neighbor actually had a corner of my house on the property for 50 years. um the house adjacent to it, Hurricane
Helen picked up, flowed eastward, smashed into the next residence, and destroyed a vehicle in the process. So, this this area took a really bad hit right in front of the Lion's Club uh Caddies. The Lions Club parking lot is across the street. And um basically
we're we're asking the board to um look at the code, look at the accepted uses stated in the code. RFM30 is one of those that is an acceptable uh use for the property. And we ask that the board
take into consideration the historical aspect of the of the house being there. Um it's keeping with the look of the neighborhood. it's keeping with the typical uses of the neighborhood. And um if the board were to deny the u special
exception, I'd be left with a commercial lot that meets none of the criteria for commercial use. It's not large enough for parking. It's not large enough for a structure. Maybe I could uh put concrete pads and park food trucks on it. I don't know. I don't think caddies would like
that. Maybe a pin colada hut. But, uh, we're looking to make maybe put our home back in a in a reasonable time and and get back here full-time again. Um, I think I covered a lot of it. Um, I did
fill out the packet. I on each line of the required um, items where it said it the the staff asked the questions. Jess, if you can flip to that next page. on the application.
Um the I'm sorry, John, what was what did you want to see? >> No, this is staff analysis, my application where I I took your same form and I answered each of those 13 criteria to give the board an idea. >> I'm sorry, I do not have the presentation. We do have it on file
though and they do have access to it on their iPad. >> If you like, I mean, Jesse's going to put that in his presentation and you'll have a chance for a rebuttal. So, And I >> we'll hear it one way or another. >> I printed a couple hundred dollars worth of drawings. I hope everybody got them
and used them. I was disappointed when I saw the iPad come out and I was like, "Oh man, >> all those sheets." But normally you wouldn't see a full packet like I I delivered because obviously the design wouldn't be complete until the land use
was clarified. >> It's the first time I'm seeing these iPads, too. So >> yeah. So, I would uh I at this point I would just turn it over to the board and ask their consideration in approving uh the exception as presented and see what >> Okay. Start out with a couple of
questions. I mean, I'm just clarifying a few things for the viewing audience. I live right down the street from this uh your your house. I've lived there for 40 years. I've seen this situation. The house that was due west view had its
challenges. I was glad to see Dan McNut buy it and turn it into a parking lot. You do realize you're going to have a lot of parking right next door to you. >> It's been like that since we bought it. >> Okay. >> Dan has been a has been a good neighbor. He's uh he's not he's allowed us to park
when we have family over cuz you know in this design we uh we come up with two parking spaces under the house plus the parking pad out front. So, in rearranging the house, we've actually bettered our parking. Um, >> and I appreciate the fact that you are
asking for no variances whatsoever. You do meet the limitation of 35 ft over base flood elevation and 2 ft uh in height. Um, we all have our opinions on architecture.
I uh yours is fine. I'll just I will just say that because this board cannot rule on architectural design. Might not like it, don't really care. >> It's a matter of preference. >> It's a matter of preference. You know, >> working working with a 720 square foot
footprint, which is the base floor square footage. It's really hard to get a usable home in there. >> I think you've done a lot with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure 100% that I can afford the elevator on day one. It may be prepped and then I have to earn some more money and put the elevator in after
the fact. But there is provision for age in place so that when I can't do those stairs, I have an elevator shaft designed in structurally and architecturally. >> Well, they are getting cheaper. Any other questions from the board for the applicant? Seeing none, please have a seat. We'll
have Jesse give his presentation. >> All right. So, um I'm actually I'm of course sessions. We do have site plans to come in with these. So, I'm going to combine these into one. Then, of course, as you know, you make a motion on each case. So, >> I was hoping you would do that. >> Yes. >> All right. So, these are this are both
these cases SPEC-00580-205. Then also case number SIT-0000581-2025. Um, so the these are a special exception use request to allow a single family residential dwelling in a commercial general zoning district. And then the of course we have the site plan approval request for a single family residential
dwelling in the commercial general zoning district. And this is located at 292nd Avenue. The land use of commercial general is also zoned commercial general. And as you already seen, this is a site
plan. And so for the review criteria, I will go through the special exception criteria. And then for the site plan, I'm just going to pull over the actual table that we have showing that it meets the code. Uh I won't go through the site
plan because it is a single family. It has to come in through permitting. We have to review that all as well then too. All right. So, special exception use criteria is stated in section 68-481. Criteria one, a residential dwelling is a permitted special exception use within
the CG zoning district. Criteria two, the proposed special exception use is consistent with the redevelopment objective within the comprehensive plan, which is to encourage redevelopment that is compatible with the existing character in order to achieve an orderly and aesthetic mixture of land uses.
Criteria three, the residential use will adhere to all applicable land development regulations which protect the public health, safety, welfare, and convenience. Criteria four, the residential dwelling use will be similar to existing residential uses in the neighborhood and should not adversely affect the value of other properties.
Criteria five, the proposed use is compatible with development in the vicinity, which is primarily residential mixed with some residential I mean some commercial uses. Criteria six, the residential use will be consistent with the purpose of the CG zoning district,
which is to deline delineate those areas as defined within the city's comprehensive plan. Commercial general suitable for general commercial activities and development together with the associated special exception. Residential use is a special exception within the commercial general zoning
district. Um, one thing we do want to point out though with the special exception, the regulations for a single family dwelling resident is pulled from the RFM30 zoning district. Criteria seven, uh, this does not apply. Criteria eight, the proposed use will
adhere to all applicable land development regulations. Criteria nine, the site was previously developed for residential use and the proposed continuation of residential use will not impact the existing natural environment of the site and neighboring public parks or neighboring properties. Criteria 10,
the proposed use will adhere to all applicable land development regulations. Criteria 11, uh this will also adhere to all applicable land development regulations. Criteria 12, the use has sufficient land area for the construction of the single family residential dwelling unit. Uh criteria
13, the developed level of service. Um this should not be impacted as this was previously developed with a single family residence criteria. So this one I'm going to jump in right now to the site plan review criteria which is stated in section 70-92. Um as you can point out, it meets
everything. The only thing I do want to highlight on this is it does not meet the lot area which is required for that zoning district. Um just because of that it is of course is a non-conforming lot and under code uh non-conforming lots
can be are allowed to be developed with a single family residence. Then I'll just go through the staff recommendation for the special exception use. Um, staff has reviewed the proposed special exception use and determined that it satisfies the applicable
criteria set forth in section Wait, was this a state plan? My apologies, I mixed these two up. But this one is the staff recommendation for the special exception said for section 70-92. Um, staff has
recommended approval with the following conditions. Let me read these from the staff report. I think this slideshow got messed up. Right. So, yep. Staff recommends the proposed special exception used to allow a residential dwelling in the commercial general zoning district be approved with
the following conditions. A site plan which is case number SIT-0000581-2025 for a single family dwelling unit must be approved. Uh did you want to go make a motion on this one and then I'll do the staff recommendation before you do the next motion?
>> Uh I was going to ask you that if you had any any comments in regard to the site plan because we don't want to hear it all again. >> No, no, that was it. No, I mixed them all into the same thing. >> Yeah, there you go. So, >> just want to make sure you didn't have any more. >> I'll just read you the staff recommendation for the site plan then
too. >> That's fine. >> Staff recommends the proposed site plan be approved with the following conditions. Condition one, a special exception use. Case number SPEC-0000580-2025 has been approved to allow a single family dwelling in the commercial general zoning district. Criteria two,
all building permits and construction associated with this development proposal shall be subject to all current regulations within the Florida Building Code, floodplane management regulations, and land development regulations in effect at the time of the building permit application process.
>> And staff's available for any questions. >> Thank you. Anybody have any questions for Jesse? I >> I have a question, but I want to make sure you don't because I don't want to go ahead of you, chairman. >> No, go ahead, please. Uh Jesse, in the parcel that's like directly west of it, the one that's uh I don't care who owns
it, but I guess you guys were talking about the parking. I mean, it's in the same area, same zone, whatever. They technically I'm not saying if we approve this, could they come in and basically ask for the same thing and build the same exact structure in that parcel?
So, and I'm not saying that our answer I'm not saying that our answer is based as a board. I'm not making the decision based on that because we don't do that. Um, but I'm just curious like I mean this they build this home in this area. It's got a view. There's the potential that they could come in and ask for the
same thing. Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. They would have to go through the same process. Get the special exception use and then the site plan. >> Okay. All right. Just want to clarify that. And just to reaffirm what we've already talked about, this building does not go outside any of the setbacks,
>> which I know Richard Harris commented about earlier. No variance required. >> No variance required. Okay. >> Appreciate the designer who designed it without that. >> I I actually was going to say that to the applicant. It's nice to see an application that is fitting inside the footprint. >> Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, based
off of what we have here. Yes. Um obviously would go any because they still have to submit for permit. It'll go through review again and if something is beyond the setback, it would have to be addressed then. >> Yep. Okay. I'm good. I don't have any further questions. >> Anybody else? Seeing none, Mr. Mr.
Horic, have you got any further comments? >> Uh, I just wanted to comment on the mic, sir. >> The podium and >> Yeah, I just wanted to clarify on the uh the way the setbacks are stated um because it's not an issue, but the Duke
platform extends into the rear, which is north uh 3 ft, whatever the Duke platform is. So, in my what I was told via email was that there's no setback on the rear of the property because of Harold Avenue
and 92nd. >> Um, there actually still is a setback. It's a 5 foot setback based off the layout. Um, I apologize if you were given incorrect information. >> I was going to say we do there are setbacks on Harrow Avenue.
>> Yes. So, this um you don't have your rear yard because it's a corner lot. So, you have a street setback. street setback. Then this is a sideyard setback of 5T and then this is also a sideyard setback is 5. >> That's a sideyard setback and not a rear yard. >> So if that is encroaching um that is
something we can address during the permit. >> Yeah, that that is the only thing encroaching is the Duke platform into that setback. >> Okay. So we can just have you just redesign that before you submit for >> We need to move it. >> Yes. I thought you just were talking about
exceptions for the Duke platform. >> I believe I'm not really sure. I guess I could ask city to any of that if they would allow if the board is able to add conditions to >> without an actual variance. Yes. To the site plan that it be relocated to not uh
conflict. >> Okay. They Okay. is that's that that in itself is a hardship because you're cutting into my 728 square feet available >> or or we could also allow it. Is that correct?
>> Well, if you're talking about a hardship and you're asking for a variance, I mean that is another land use approval that would have to but you don't really want to delay him. I don't >> we cannot get in the business of new construction homes allowing Duke platforms to be built outside the
setback through a variance. I'm sorry. We we cannot be doing that. >> That was a general procedure and u that we use saying new construction you we're not going to grant variances for Duke power platforms. We just were not for you for
raised homes. I see >> that's that's a different scenario all misunderstood >> and uh situation is you do have some corners up on the northwest side where you could potentially get it in there. >> I will tell you sir that that there are
options. I'm going through this same process right now of building a new designing a new home. I am bringing in filter. I don't need, again, my elevation on my property may be different than yours, but because I'm building my house up, I don't have to put stairs on the side of my house to
get to a Duke meter. They can build it because the ground is lifted. The Duke meter can come down lower because it's still correct. So, I'm not saying that that there is something that you should explore there. Again, my situation is not approved or anything like that, but
>> yeah, we don't plan to bring any fill. We plan to >> I understand >> maintain >> but I you know I'm not trying to take the hate to use the cliche like wind out your sales but if if that came back before us it's it's not just >> it's not going to get approved. >> This this is throwing a a wrench into
the situation. I mean I really don't see that northwest corner having adjacency to the building. Uh it is right on the 5 foot setback >> five on >> on uh >> are you at maximum height? >> Yes he is.
>> Yeah. is the only purpose for the stairway the Duke meter. Is that the only reason that you have the uh stairway in a setback? >> Yes. And it's a it's was put there because the power pole is on the northeast corner. It's the closest
adjacent power supply. >> Grant, can I cut in real quick? Sure. Um I misspoke on that one. Actually, the applicant was correct. Uh I misread these setbacks. There is no side setback for that one. So he he's good. Okay. My apologies. >> You can pull the heart out of your
stomach now, sir. >> For real. >> For real. >> And your $800 packet of plans, so you don't have to throw those away. >> So, uh, >> so you're good there. >> No variances. >> Come on, Jesse. >> You're good to go. >> Thank you. >> Good to go. Good to go. >> Take this guy to Waffle House to a nice dinner in Treasure Island.
>> No, I'm human being. I don't know everything. Yeah. >> Wow. >> Okay. >> Dodged a bullet. >> No further comments. Uh, could we get a motion on both of these items? Well, we will need two different uh motions, but uh whoever wants to make it make one and
then make the second. If there's no other board discussion, and I'll look for a nod, I'll make a motion if that's okay with everyone. Sure. >> Uh in regards to case number SPC-0000580-205 at location 2, 92nd Avenue, Treasure Island, Florida. Uh, as a planning
planning and zoning board member, I will make the motion to approve a special exception use request to allow residential dwelling in the commercial general zoning district with conditions listed in my packet. Being that there's only one, I will list it. A site I'll
read it. A site plan site-0000581-2025 for a single family residential dwelling must be approved. Unit must be approved. >> Second. Okay, we had a motion by Ross Sanchez, second by Chris Downing. Uh, roll call, please.
>> Gary Patenziano, >> yes. >> Ross Sanchez, >> yes. >> Markes, >> yes. >> Chris Downing, >> yes. >> Grant Smith, >> yes. >> Shavelin, >> yes. >> Richard Harris, >> yes. >> Thank you. >> All right, second motion. Ross, >> if there's no discussion amongst the board, we've already heard it. Thank
you, Jesse, for doubling up those uh the client packet for us. I will make a motion. Just let me look. Okay. Uh in regards to case number SIT-0000581-2025 at location 292nd Avenue, Treasure Island, Florida 33706. As a planning and
zoning board member, I am making a motion to approve a site plan approval for a single family residential dwelling in the commercial general zoning district with the conditions one and two listed in our packet. >> Okay. Okay. A motion by Ross Sanchez,
second by Marvin Chevlin. Uh, could I have a roll call vote? >> Gary Vateniano? >> Yes. >> Ross Sanchez? >> Yes. >> Mark Zeski? >> Yes. >> Chris Downing? >> Yes. >> Grant Smith? >> Yes. >> Marvin Shavelin? >> Yes. >> Richard Harris? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for taking on this section
of the neighborhood. You've obviously had some challenges. Like I said, I live down the street for the last 40 years. and uh that you know what's going on in your neighborhood. It has its challenges. >> Does anybody know of the Lions going to
rebuild? >> Yes, I do. And hopefully with this board, we'll be seeing that soon. And it's public information. They don't mind me sharing. They're going to sell off one lot that will give them the funds to uh build their new clubhouse. They will
have an elevated clubhouse. It potentially will block your view of the Gulf, but like Ross was saying, there's a potential that house just to the west of you would build there, too. You know what's you know what's there, but >> I think you got your balconies in the right way. Go build your house after you
get a permit. >> But the uh the Lions Club hopefully will be uh submitting to the city soon according to what they have said. And that's another issue after your case is done that now that I'm reminded that I
won't talk about. >> Don't worry much north of your property anyway, so you'll be okay. >> All right. Thank you. Uh public comment for non-aggenda items. Anybody in the audience today? And there's nobody in the audience at all. Reports and
comments of city attorney, staff, and board members. >> No comments. >> Okay. >> I got a couple. Hold on. Let's Let's get the staff first. Jesse, you got anything you want to talk about? I know we got cases coming. >> We do. Yeah. Um I don't know. I I
already kind of went over some of those already. Um I guess I might as well announce it now. Um but next month, um could be my last month presenting here at the planning zoning board. We do have a new principal planner that is starting on Monday. So, we're going to slowly bleed him to taking over the planning and zoning board stuff for us. We focus
strictly on just flood pl. >> What is that person's name? >> Braden Evans. Can't say >> you're going to focus then on I'm sorry I missed the last part of that. >> Uh I will be focused on being the flood plane manager then folks. >> Okay, great. >> All right. Uh getting into the the board members.
>> Joan, nothing from Joan. Nothing. Not one thing. >> Okay. Go ahead, Ross. We'll let you start. >> Yeah. Um I'll take a couple of minutes uh while we're here together as a board. Um, I mean, I I gotta say that I'm very
discouraged in regards to what's been going on within our city from a growth and development standpoint with a lot of the stuff that this board has put forward. Whether you're for it or not, it's going out there and it just seems like it's not going anywhere. Um, you know, a typical frustration is, you
know, a lot of that Thunderbird application stuff was talking about the Thunderbird. That application was for the entire zoning district. So, in the future when things like that take place, I'd like for it to be labeled differently from the just the Thunderbird perspective because there
were comments about developers pockets getting lined and things of that nature, which is just truly sad. Um, the some of the other things I think that there was some um uh not what's the word I'm looking for? It's the the thing that you
send out to to residents and there's petitions. Sorry. So there was petitions that were going out and around and they're flooding on the internet. The amount of misinformation that was on that from an education standpoint was truly disturbing. There was so many things out there that people were reading and people are putting I get
signs in their yards, but when you actually know the education of what this city needs to move forward, it it truly it truly um kind of really really frustrates me because there's a lot of time and energy that goes into the from this this board application. Um, I think
that it's going to be a while. I understand that there was a lot of talk about master plans. Master plans. I I get the buzzword of master plans. We have them in place today and they or over the past decade or so and it's got us nowhere. So now as a taxpayer, we're going to be paying hundreds of thousands
of dollars for another master plan where my taxes are going up on my dirt lot and I have nothing to show for it when it comes from a from a city perspective. So, I'm paying taxes on a dirt lot and over the ne we're there's going to be a delay from a perspective of now we have
to go out to RFP. Now, we have to have someone come and do another master plan which we already have. Again, from an education standpoint, like we had that joint meeting, which was great for all of us to have a joint meeting together. And we had right there the ability to kind of move things forward and we're
now stalled and we're going to go back. And one of the things that I know that Kimley Horn's looking into, and Joan, I'd like to challenge you, not for the next meeting in December, but maybe in January or probably February, is to talk to these major commercial owners. Does anyone know if a transa transaction has
taken place on the Treasure Island Club? You know, if has that ownership changed? Are we talking to those people? Um, I know Kimley Horn's coming out and and and supposedly going to give us feedback on what this city needs, but going back to that education perspective, like one of the things that we could have talked
about, if something is built in downtown, I'm not talking about Pirate Square specifically, I'm talking about anywhere in downtown, that it could be built right on the road. Everyone has said that they do not want a cave look approach when they come into Treasure Island. Does do people know that if something were okay if the if the owners
on either side of the clock tower said, "Oh, I want to build something." It's going to be built up as a as a canyon. I don't think people know that. So, as we're sitting here saying, "No, we don't want height." Say again, Jesse. >> I was going to say that that that's just a setback. Like, they don't have to build it right up against there. You
know, if they want to build like a setback, for example, like you have to build 20 ft back that you don't have to build zero feet back. If you don't, you can >> they could build they could build it at zero feet setback though. Correct. >> They could. Yes. Correct. Again, if people are talking about maximizing
dollars and things of that nature, they would end up doing that. I'm not saying that they will. I'm just talking about >> correct that in the current circumstance we could get what we don't really want. >> Correct. Correct. So now >> goes to many of the arguments made. >> So we are now going to delay. Okay.
Which is fine. I I I I'm not really happy about it, but if this is what's going to do, but I also just as we're going through this process, if we're going to hire, if we're going to do this master plan, and I apologize I couldn't be at the meeting on Tuesday, but if we're going to hire and we're going to pay this money, we need to have some type of performance guarantees in
regards to that plan coming back because there's a lot of money that this city is going to dump. By the way, we have to pay for a new pump station. We have to pay for a new police and fire. We have to pay for uh we have to pay for probably Treasure Bay if what we're going to do there. There's other things that this we have to pay for staff. We
have to pay for inflation, things of that nature. That is all going to cost more money. With all of these dirt lots of these residential homes that are now being scraped and 20% of them are only being put back, there's going to be a decrement to our income from property
tax money coming in. So, if we're spending a lot of money and we don't have as much money coming in, where are they going to come from? Where where is the city going to get the money from? Is it going to get from our already the highest millage rate in the county or from the be from the barrier islands? Because we can't keep increasing our
taxes. That's going to be on our backs. I think that's what's going to end up happening in regards to how this city is going to make money if we leave it the way that it's going to leave as we go through this process. So, I appreciate you all listening to me. I'm a little fired up about it because truly a lot of time and effort has been put in trying to get this city to the next station. I
know that the property owners are saying the same thing to you, Joan, or at least I hope they are. But we got to start getting some feedback in regards to what's needed because we we can't live like this. >> Yeah, I I'll follow that. >> Thank you. All right. All right. I'm sorry I just had to say it because you know, one of the things just real quick
because I actually made some really good notes on it and I want to I want to focus on it. When the potential Jim Brainer was here, um there was three comments. I have the minutes marked about how he talked about height and density on how good height height and
density could be required. um you know some of the things he was talking about were the cars underground. You know we can go I'll go through this later because I have it in my notes but there is a discussion that needs to happen around that and I know that's we're trying but it just seems like we're getting absolutely nowhere. I understand that this is the the public but I
actually have a lot of people that come to me and say they're for it but they're too afraid to come up to a podium or email to the city because of what repercussions could come from the opposition. So thank you. >> We we we I think we all share your passion. may not agree with everything, but I think we all to a lot of us agree
with that passion. >> Okay, we're gonna go down the line here. >> Uh Mark, you got any comments? >> Gary, I'm going out of step. >> That's all right. I'm good. >> Anyway, Chris, I >> I have comments on other subjects that just if I could reserve my time. >> Okay, Grant.
>> Uh just in response, Russ, I think that um the misinformation that you refer to is is an issue and I think it's an issue on both sides. My stance on this from the very beginning has been there is a documented
validated verified series of steps that you go through when you engage in a rigorous due diligence process. It doesn't begin with the developer requesting greater height and density and that's the extent of the evidence
which is what we're working from. There are documented steps that you go through. Public benefit, impact studies, alternative analysis, sensitivity analysis, perform analysis. When you're talking about an ordinance that impacts
the entire Gulf side, the scope and the scale of which is significant, >> to simply move ahead based upon the request of a developer without any perform analysis that essentially says
why they need this and what our benefits are going to be to me is irresponsible and it's just wrongheaded. So, I'm all for development. I'm all for smart development, but this should be an evidence-driven process in which we
consider multiple views. We consider multiple angles and multiple alternatives to this. If we are considering merely the request of a developer and they're, you know, I I think that their self-interest and their profit motive is what's going to drive
it. And as it should, that's what they're in business for. My point is, we just need more information. And to be honest with you, in terms of stalling the development, had the Thunderbird agreed to rebuild under the current codes, they'd be 60 days into this
process now. They reached high and they they it didn't work. So, I agree. I want development. I want to see us rebuild, but I don't want to do it so haphazardly that uh there's always time to do it right. There's uh never time to do it
right, but there's always time to do it over. I want to make sure we do it right. Mr. Marvin, you got any comments today? I got a bunch. Anyway, we'll stay on this same subject. Bottom line is real easy. If six stories, five over parking
worked, it had already been built on. It doesn't work. Plain and simple. I've been in the land development business for 40 years. Don't you dare try to tell me what works and what doesn't work. I designed and I built six hotels.
Five over parking on that site obviously didn't work. So now what are we going to have for the next 5 years minimum? Nothing. Nothing. They're not going to do anything. I guarantee you they are not going to come in and say, "Oh gee,
we were wrong. Now we going to have five over parking and we're going to build a project that loses money." That's a high risk, highreward business. You know, I talked to the owner of our downtown area. His comment is city just took a
great step backwards. I'm not going to do anything. You know, situation is people don't remember what happened at the Fargo and the Buccaneer. They asked for a variance for 7 over1. They didn't get it. Sat vacant for 10
years. plan on the Thunderbird sitting vacant for 10 years and that's just the way it'll be. Fine. It's not going to affect me at all other than the fact that I'm going to end up paying more taxes like Ross said, you know, situation is. But anyway, down on Sunset
Beach, I counted the number of vacant lots. 67. That's how many houses have come down. It's pretty amazing. The answer to all this is something that I've been pushing for 10 years. plan development ordinance. It's a zoning category that doesn't even exist in this
city. Has never existed. Did we ask Emily Horn to work on it? Yeah, we might get it in two years. That means nothing's going to happen on this city for 10 for at least two years. The only big enough property to do a true plan
development project is the Krabies on the Pass property. It's nine acres and uh it's going to be big enough. the other ones. I was really truly hoping that the uh Thunderbird would jump. You know, I've heard all kinds of rumors.
Oh, they're just going to get their approval and sell it. Yeah, I know that. They could they could have done that, but now nobody wants to buy it. Situation is I don't think it'll happen. But I was hoping that that project would jumpst start something into this city.
Can't you see all this big construction out here? No, you see nothing. But anyway, I got a couple of other things. Uh Bobby, uh Shay, why don't you go ahead with yours? But I do have a question for uh Jackie before you uh
leave. Um couple of questions and but go ahead. >> So, I apologize. Um as you guys share your concerns and your talking, I realize that I know a lot more than I realize I know and I'm working on a lot more than I probably have shared. So,
I'm going to go down the list. Um, we're going to start with the LDR updates. You guys did a fantastic job. We had our joint meeting. We're moving forward into phase two. We've already started to begin to schedule our stakeholder meetings as part of that. And we're looking at our community outreach pro
outreach programs as well. TI club, I don't want to say too much because I certainly don't want to jinx or cause concern in the community and and unrest where there doesn't need to be any. I will just say um that we had a fantastic meeting with for Penllis. Um, we see a
path for the first time in a very long time and anticipate that with our new council, we'll be able to find a pathway forward for them to open up for business. Uh, the Ford Penelis piece was huge. Um, unexpected and and we don't
want to celebrate too soon, but we are hopeful with that property. Uh, with Green Leaf, same thing. We're having conversations. I've been speaking with their attorney um waiting for our new council to come on board and Jesse as well and uh there are there are some
options there that could help their development uh site plan and again I it's it's hopeful and they are hopeful Pirate Square uh we stood before here when we did the ask for the um the amendment and our recommendation was
that they meet with for Penelis and have the necessary meetings. Those meetings are on the calendar. So while chair I know you're you're concerned that they're not going to move forward, they have showed the appetite and the initiative to do the necessary steps. Um to your point, Mr. Downing, when you
talk about or I'm sorry, Mr. Smith, you talk about the impact studies. We have a grant out through the county to to handle and cover the cost of our impact study. Um impact fees. So we came before you, Ford Penelis came before you about the impact fees and the interlocal agreement that
is now at the next phase and we will be hosting the meeting for forward penelis um with this region where they're going to talk to staff of multiple municipalities about the steps moving forward, the county's intent, their appetite, what those fees look like and we'll be sharing that information with
our commission um as as we move forward because as we know that was a statemandated obligation to um to have an interlocal agreement with impact fees across the county. >> And so those would be impact fees beyond
multimodal the the >> multimal impact fees. >> These would be broad-based. >> Nope, just multimodal impact fees. It's the next phase of the multimotal impact fee. Yeah, we'll have a timeline of when the county tends to implement the fees on their end, what that means to us, and the steps that we need to take moving forward. Uh yesterday, the TDC made a
fun announcement. They're amending their language to include beachfront parks as a separate category for grant opportunities. I don't know that Treasure Bay necessarily qualifies as a beachfront park because it hasn't been defined, but certainly we have the Sunset Beach Pavilion and we other other
areas in the the city that would qualify. So, that's that's a pretty cool opportunity because that's a whole new pot of money or a whole new designated uh pot of money in that passed yesterday. Um, >> please send a note to the city of St. Pete for
>> there. So, so Gary Volnick, our public works director, is actually in conversations with the city of St. Pete. >> I didn't mean to cut you off. I just >> No, no, you're fine. It's on our radar and it's something that we're following up on. >> Yes. >> Do can you provide any update on what
the city of St. Pete is planning to do with >> It's my understanding that they plan to demolish the concession stands and just add restrooms. Oh. >> Clean up the property. That's unfortunate. >> Yeah, that I mean they because they
>> but again this this amendment through TDC was just award was just uh determined yesterday. So maybe this is a tool that they can use to help uh beautify their their space. I can't speak for them, but it certainly seems as though that's clearly a beachfront
park access. >> We got to figure out ways to get people to invest in Treasure Island. It's very difficult for someone to say, "I want to put money into Even the city of St. Petersburg, they're going to look around and go, "Why are we going to put money into this concession stand, we can make
more on parking and put in showers and be done with it." >> And I understand the frustration. I've only been here since May 27th and the progress and the the movement that I've seen with my team and what we're trying to do. I mean, given the circumstances, I can tell you that we're putting
everything that we have into it. Um, we are not accepting no as an answer. were looking at hurdles as opportunities to find a way and yeah >> imagine being here since 1989. >> Oh my my my my family settled here in 1927. They were one of the first hotel
years the same. >> So maybe a little out of the box but in case of this St. Pete property or that the the parking area >> uh I don't know how what the history of that is in terms of how it was deed and all of that >> it was a it was a legacy deed that was
given to St. in the terms of the deed say that if they forgo the property, they cannot transfer it to another municipality. It goes back to the family of the legacy. >> I see. >> So, that nicks what I was going to at least recommend to see if there was any
chance of us, >> you know, making a deal with St. Pete to take it over. Um I I would say taking it over would be a challenge, but um right now we maintain the trash pickup on that property and maybe there's more of a
mutual agreement that we can expand upon. I believe >> I know we and I know we do the enforcement as well >> and and that's something that Gary Vnick is is has on his plate >> um in that conversation with the CCP >> but maybe the grant what you said terms of looking at the pro the family maybe
there is something there. I appreciate all that information and thank you. >> I apologize. I get wrapped up my day and I forget that I know what I know. So, >> Mr. Grant, like I want to because I know Mr. Grant made made feedback and and I'm on board. I just want to make sure that
as you're talking to these people because it goes in line with what Grant's saying. We we we got to be friendly. Like I understand that we want to do these studies and impact studies and and I understand that we cannot be turning these people away because right now it looks very bad on nothing's ever
going to happen here. I mean the you know again not calling out the Thunderbird but they went through the process. They put it all together >> and they got shut down which okay that's fine but they're hopefully they're still at the table. All these business properties are still at the table because we cannot keep going the way that that we're going.
>> Sure. Well in answer to that Ross I get a lot of phone calls. I was up in North Carolina, so I didn't make the meeting. As I'm driving back down here, I get phone calls from one of the largest land owners on this uh island. Several, you know, more than one call said it was
unbelievable what happened Tuesday night. We have a city commission that votes 3 to two to approve the comprehensive land use plan. Then they remove the RFM30. Okay, they approve it four to one. Oh, okay. were uh might
something happen in this city? Oh, nope. Everybody changes. PD comes into the uh mix. Uh denied 4 to one. Great victory for the people who want to keep things in the status quo. The comment I got from all these land owners, enjoy your
status quo. You have a rundown city. It will stay that way. >> And that's it. I mean, these people said, "We're not moving forward. Not until the atmosphere in that town changes." That's a I just I know you're working hard. I know you work hard. >> And and one last um one last thing. We
just had a I had a conversation with Marcus yesterday and uh I believe Jack can confirm we have a DRC set up for caddies um in their their next steps. So another business back online. >> And you mentioned Green Leaf. Is that the Gator's property? >> Yes, it is. Okay. >> They they prefer not to be referred to
as the Gator's property moving forward. So we're we can call it the pass. >> All right. um >> tell them to come in here and give us some type of plan that Grant and everyone else can sign off on that makes sense and they can have the conversation. >> I can appreciate that. >> And we'll call them whatever they want
us to call them. >> Sure. Sure. And I'm going to I'm going to leave >> just cuz Grant I want to make it clear like I think there's a big difference from these applicants. I understand you're not just saying, "Oh, let's just give them everything." I think where I want you and I to come together from a positioning standpoint is I I think that they need to tell the city what they're
looking for and the city tells them what they're looking for. That's what I'm trying to get to where, you know, the city has the stats of of what makes sense for them and then you can figure that out because we don't have that tool in the toolkit as you guys have said before and that is something that is readily available for us to where we can
get things moving forward and in in the smart way because when people like I know Commissioner Clark sat up here at one point and said twice I'm a he's this is a comment from him I am one million% behind development but smart development you had made the comment as well I am for development smart development Okay,
that's fine. This is smart development. If people are wanting to invest in Treasure Island, we should be having those conversations with them. It's smart for us to have those conversations to tell them what we want and what they want. And then you kind of figure out what works moving forward. That to me is
smart development and 1 million% that's a pretty good odd to have when it comes to >> which favor positive or negative that you're that you're going. >> And then he turned and voted against it. I mean, Corey Landing in St. P Beach is a prime example. You know, that was
pretty much whether it was officially won or not, a planned development. The city got a park. They got a lot of boat slips. They got parking. You know, I mean, these people were willing to give a little to get a little. Like I said, it's a high-risk, highreward business.
John's Pass in Madera Beach is getting a Marriott or an autograph. Like, >> well, they've been talking about it >> in the past. Yeah. But anyway, situation is we need to move forward and we took a great step backwards >> Tuesday night. >> So in the in the
>> spirit of going forward. >> Yes. >> I understand that at the last at the Tuesday meeting they did prove to move the location of the or at least the planning for it for the fire and police over to >> back to 108. >> 10 108th. But now that leaves a fairly
large swath of city- owned land. And this would I'm sure this is going to be something that Joan's going to be working with as well to um look at what are the options for the city to do public private partnership on that land to help with the development of the
downtown area. But um so maybe we'll get at least some thoughts on that. I know we're early in the process. >> So just I'll leave you with two things. Um, one just to help us spread the message and the word, uh, I have set up a pop-up resource center on December 2nd
at the community center. We've invited the county in to be there for the people's first program um, in an event so that people don't come and find their declined and feel defeated. I've added Sun Coast Credit Union has reached out. They have low rate loans for rehab,
rehabilitation, rebuild programs. Um, also Volunteers of America has a new project, COPE, which is a a variety of resources all the way from mental health, PTSD to getting back in your home and and um necessary resources for
that. So, that's December 2nd all day. Um, and then to address an issue that was brought to the commission in public comment, they have posted the position for director of community development, but that does not mean I'm leaving. I am I'm still on staff. I am still working
the projects that are dear to me and uh I'm still available if you have any questions. >> Can you repeat that county event? The December 2nd >> December 2nd at the community center from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. >> Okay. And there's folks from the county that are coming like county leaders. >> The county No, no, no. The county
people's first program. So the um the staff that is executing and evaluating applications for that program and it's designed it's part of the CBDGR money that's designed to get people back in their homes. Uh, I believe there are 95 applications from Treasure Island. A small percentage of those actually
qualify. But again, it's a first come, first serve and it'll be information and anybody from the surrounding areas can come to Treasure Island. It's it's, you know, a regional popup, if you will. If any of you know of any programs that fit in that model that would be helpful to
our community, we don't have a closed door. I'm welcoming um this this isn't picking and choosing. And I I'm welcome anybody that um has something to offer. >> I just thought if county leaders were here, I wouldn't wanted you to give them a tour of our police and fire setup. So
if they're not here, >> uh I don't So I'm not sure if you know, but I come from the county. Um I actually work for Chair Brian Scott for the his first two terms. Um helped get him to office and he's very aware of the need. >> Okay. um when the CBDGR monies once they
exhaust and they have met the the first requirement is getting people back in their homes there's discretionary funds a percentage of that that be can be used for things like our fire station and so that's another issue that I'll be working but I don't anticipate
that even being put on the table in probably late spring after session >> yeah they're going to issue that money out to individual shouldn't be dependent on it anyway, but I'm just >> the total comes to about $180 million of
discretionary money of the total $400 and some million dollars and reminding that's coming through the federal government and being filtered through our counties. So, >> so that is some >> it's significant. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you.
>> Go ahead, Jim, please. >> And I'll just um pick up where Bobby Shay left off. So with that CDBGDR funding, also in the spring, we'll see the county open up its small business fund and opportunities. So for some of
our small businesses um that have been impacted, they'll have a chance to reach some funding. Um I won't take too much time. I know Ross, you tried to give me a softball there as to to what else we've been working on. You know how I
see things, Tuesday was a disappointment for sure. However, there's been a lot of great discussion in these different meetings. Again, with the joint session that you did with the city commission, we're now talking about plan development, zoning, right? So, so
a great opportunity to see if we can get that um put into our toolbox. Obviously the private um amendment that the Thunderbird um brought to us that put another new tool on the table for us to consider which was the development um
agreement. Additionally, as Bobby Shay um and and the team is doing, the LDR's um phase two with Kimley Horn is moving down the track. And I just wanted to come back to the master plan um thought.
Um Ross, just you know, for um uh your education, I think the master plan that was being discussed was more citywide. Um we've done master plans for water and downtown and parks, but we've never
looked at um the city as a whole from a master plan. So potentially that could be something new that fills the gap between our comp plan and what we're doing with strategic plans and our capital improvement um program. So on
the topic of the master plan, I'm working with our CFO and our public works director. We're preparing an agenda item for the December 2nd workshop meeting um to bring that um forward to the commission so they can
have a discussion. Um we uh the city manager was tasked with um as it relates to the master plan project to go out for quotes um to obtain um a master plan advisory um services. Staff had
completed that quote. So, we'll talk about that in the December 2nd workshop meeting. Um, then, um, just this week on Tuesday, um, the city manager got another directive regarding the master plan, citywide master plan to look at an
RFQ, RFP. So that will also um be discussed in both the workshop meeting and we're preparing um an action item for the regular meeting that follows the workshop meeting on master plan in the in the um work that we finished for the
quote for a phase one master plan advisory service component to it. It had two key parts to it to get us started. one was visioning, you know, so working with our community to really look at the
vision that we currently have. So like in the downtown setting, we've got a mixeduse vision for the downtown, which right now we just define on 107th, which is kind of interesting. Um, and in
along this part of of G Boulevard. So, I wonder if we ought to think a little bit more broader on what our central city downtown district should look like. That could potentially be if the master plan, a citywide master plan were to go um
forward. That be could be the type of conversation that we have um together as a as a community. Additionally, we put in phase one of um of for the master plan the tools. So, um I know Mr. Smith,
you had shared information um with our our city commission and you just articulated some of the analysis that would need to partake um if we were to put some of these new tools in our toolbox that would also be included. So,
we would again get ourselves um ready for the investment that ultimately will come to this island. Do we have to work for it? Y'all are absolutely right. It's a It's a highly competitive or mixeduse
development, the quality development that we want that gives us living and working and entertainment, etc. in the center in the heart of our island. Yeah, we're going to have to work really hard
at it. But I would I would say um being the newcomer to the island, we're we while we take a little step backwards and sometimes sideways, you know, the fact that we're talking about all of these key aspects to setting ourselves
up for future success and allowing our commercial property owners, they're not developers, they're us. they own own this island like we do as residents, you know, to allow them to unleash um what you know their their
hopes and dreams are for um for the island, too. So, let me ask you a quick update on that. >> Okay. Thank you. Have you worked on any plan developments before in your life? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. I've worked on about 25. I was on
the side of the the developer. I came in with a proposal. This is what I proposed. this works and I proposed it to the various municipalities and said this is what we need to be to build in order to make
this worthwhile otherwise we'll walk away. A lot of people right now are saying okay we're just going to walk away but we do need a plan development but it needs to put the ball in the court of the developer. Let them come up with something that we they know will
work. They own the property. The citizens of this island do not own this property, but we would want to have input, but they start the ball rolling. The city comes back and the and the residents and say, "Well, we'd like to make a few changes." You do you see
foresee that at all happening? >> Oh, absolutely. Again, one of my communities I had the privilege of working in as we got ourselves ready for plan development, use of development agreements. We actually worked with our community. I think we had a list of 22
community benefits. Um because I don't think anyone who wants to make an investment like this wants to guess or to get it wrong, you know. So, the fact that from a from a city perspective, we had this list that was kind of blessed
by the community because it came from the community, you know, we we'd love, you know, the the funding for the new fire truck or we'd like the, you know, extra green space or or do the green building or whatever was important to
us. But it ended up being 22 things um long and it was useful. And in the community that I'm referencing, it was Delray Beach. Um, we actually got a headquarters out of it. We've got we got some creativeness out of it. Um, so that
in how do you say that word besides for creativity? In ingenuity. >> Ingenuity. >> You got it. >> Yeah. Ingenuity. You know, man, you know, that's the this is what I see around me. the ingenuity of this community for us to do these creative
things moving forward. If we can just get some of these tools and plan um development zoning and and this and that, you know, in place, I I think we definitely better position ourselves for for current status quo.
And there's there's certain that the situation is on huge projects, you can ask for stuff like, "Oh, yeah. I want the developer to build a new fire department, fire station." Yeah, no problem. You know, cost >> been on the developer side like you have, Mr. Chairman. I've only been on
the professional staff side that >> But you know, the situation was our downtown redevelopment plan. The city staff back in 2006 to 2009 hired HDL to build to come up with this plan and they
said, "We want you to build this." Every developer I knew looked at that redevelopment plan and said, "This is garbage. It does not work." I try I I can give you examples of that type of development that failed miserably. And
there's one on 22nd Avenue North in St. Petersburg failed miserably. So the situation is is we need to come up with a situation where the developer throws the first pitch and that's what I'm looking for is yeah let's see what you want to do and go from there but when
the city puts it that are not retailers that are not developers they don't know what they're doing when it comes to retail that retail being successful retailer or restauranteer or a hoteler is one of the hardest jobs in the world
and when the city staff is dictating what you will do. What happens is what happened, nothing. And once again, >> I I support your, you know, um, you know, desire to have PDs in this community and allow us to have that that
planning um that, >> you know, that planning tool. I think we'd get the support of the residents for that as well >> if we put some good guard rails around it. I'm sure in the case of Delray Beach, there were >> ceilings and guardrails around how what
you could do within that PD. And I think that's what our our citizenry is probably asking for around that. So Joan, if we go through these studies like because I know you had just said that people will be all for it if we if we create this master plan which okay if
if we create or if we get these studies, we do the master plan, we pay taxpayer money to go get this plan. It comes back and it says, "Yeah, you you guys need more height and density." And then we're back at square one where
they're going to be asking for more height and density. and it's proven is the is this the residents gonna just be like, "Okay, I guess we did did the research and we're okay with it now." Like I just don't see that happening. >> I I I see that happening. I actually think that can happen. I think it's
reasonable people in the community. >> Yeah. To your point, that would be an independent analysis that is not, you know, biased by itself. >> 15 stories in the air, 20 stories in the air. You know, I'm I'm an evidence-based analyst. And if the evidence is rigorous
and it's defensible and it's been compiled, if it's not based merely on somebody's opinion or somebody's experience and there is quantifiable evidence that shows the return on investment given the residual land value investment and all these things, this becomes a math problem.
>> Yeah. I'm just I guess I'm a little bit more jaded with like what what has happened. So, I mean we'll >> and that's because the information has been really thin correct about this. Yeah. >> So, why can't we have Green Leaf come and give us a presentation? They must have a concept of what they're thinking
about and let's, you know, let's hear what they have to say. Maybe they'll come up with this concept. >> But it go but it goes back to the same scenario as the Thunderbird. They came in, they wanted us, they they they had this concept. This is what they wanted to do. >> These guys might be more sophisticated. I don't know that.
>> Yeah. >> For sure. But >> let's give it a shot. And that's I think I think that's where the PD in the meantime these guys come in >> and they could help inform >> the direction even of some of what the master planning gone.
>> We may love what they come up with. I understand they were talking about a Margaritavville concept. I mean we not going to like that. >> I mean come on. >> I think we would. >> Well, I was going to say um Green Leaf is pretty easy. you know, the the zoning
for Green Leaf on the east side of Gulf Boulevard is general commercial. So, we could get a real good um marina storage. We could get about 200,000 square feet of retail, maybe a BJ's, you
know. So, so for Green Leaf, um and Bobby Shay, correct me if that's within the current we have. It's it's definitely zoning, you know, category right now of of the their property um generally is where, you know, you'd
start. Um and they want to I've I've heard Green Leaf say um to me, you know, they want to give a beautiful mixed juice. >> Great. >> But right now, general commercial mixed juice. >> Just tell us what you want and let's see
if we can work something out. >> Yeah. I mean planning stuff is like >> we approved a parking lot for them and they haven't done it yet. >> Well, a parking lot >> because they don't want to do the parking lot, Ross. I mean, I've talked to these guys. >> They would love toh do something, but
they're not going to th risk a lot of money. >> Going to have something very enlightening to say. >> I I'm not going to speak for Green Leaf. I can only speak to >> Thank you, John. I can only speak to the conversations that we've had and
there there's a an issue that interferes with what that site plan looks like now versus what it could potentially be. I'm excited that Nancy and Ralph and both are on board because I feel like they are the key to unlock this property. Um
the conversations will happen as soon as everybody is available to sit at the table. we've already had the preemptive discussions and he is as enthusiastic about moving forward as this board is to see him move forward. Okay. >> Um and and I have to commend his
patience and his investment in this community for as long as he has. Um, and I I just feel like we are so close and I know that the temperature is hot and I know that the politics is hotter, but I
also know what this community is capable of, if we can just take a breath and keep our eye on the ball and remember that regardless of where we stand and what we support and what we love best better than the other, we are all
looking at the same goal, which is having a vibrant, economically affluent, successful, well-visited community. And if we can just spend a little more time focusing on that um and how we get there
and the way that we make compromise to get there versus winning is the only way we're going to get this done. And that's just the opinion of somebody who's been in government affairs for 20 plus years. So that is my plea, my personal plea as
a resident of Treasure Island, by the way. So if I can say that now, what's that? >> It's not a straight line received. >> It is not a straight line, but we are all adults and I have a I have confidence that um with all the brilliant minds in the room and all the uh recommendations and suggestions that
we have to offer and the enthusiasm of our chair, I am not giving up just yet. Mr. Harris, >> no, I'm all for it. I tell you it just it's just frustrating because you know you see all these signs around we're for
sensible development. What do you know? You start googling sensible development. What is sensit development? Taller buildings and higher density because they want to prevent urban sprawl. My whole career I was doing designing
subdivisions. We don't want subdivisions. We want high-rise buildings. We want everybody I mean what's happening in the dome district right now is amazing. I mean if you like that type of housing I personally don't but uh you know we just need to keep
moving forward. I guess that's the thing and we just are not moving forward. I do um I hate to change the subject but thank you in the back here I'm not working just yet. I'm going to be taking notes because I think you guys want us to create an ordinance. Right. And
Richard, just a reminder, I've got about three very quick items when we're ready. Yeah. >> The uh you go first. >> I know you uh want to talk about Duke Power Platforms on new construction, but anyway, I wanted to ask Jackie. Unfortunately, we are losing Jackie to my former hometown of Safety Harbor.
Yes, sir. >> Uh >> and uh we hate to see you go, >> but uh >> even sadder than Tuesday. So, uh, since you're going and it's some things you can do something about, some things you can't do it. Since I've known you, I've
talked to you about 11685th. Is there any updates? Is she going to We all know what the answer is. The answer is she needs to sell that and tear down that cond that horrendous house. The neighbors actually have to put up with it and it's
horrible. Any updates? >> I don't have anything solid. Um, I talked with Pastor Andy and a little bit of Karen. Both of them are still trying. They haven't given up. Um, I have to I have to say throughout my whole time here, those two have been incredible to work with. Karen Barnett, if you haven't
met her, is a saint. Um, she's still helping. She's still still there. But we have nothing solid. The lean is now running with that property and will be for the foreseeable future. Other thing is that house on Dolphin Drive, like I mentioned before, it took three years
for the beautiful house there now. But, uh, >> our code guys will be working closely with Nancy to see what, um, what resources we have. Obviously, that lean's got to run for a little bit, but we we do have some options. We just need to explore those with her and it'll take a few months before we get there.
>> Okay. The next item I got is kind of for both Bobby Sheay and yourself. the Lions Club. They want to come in and build, like I was saying earlier, they're going to sell off one lot, build a new clubhouse elevated on the west side of G Boulevard. It's going to look pretty
good. But they got information saying that the city wants them to pave that off-site parking lot, the one right next to this house. This house, it is, let's see, 90th on the south side, 92nd on,
and it's between Harrow and West Gulf. It's It's a shell sand dirt parking lot. It's been that way for a hundred years. >> It has. >> I know the city code probably says, "Oh, yeah, you got to you got to pave it. you
got to put in uh storm water detention. But the various other cities do have a situation where if it's a intermittently used parking lot, it can be of a pvious surface, grass, shell,
uh sand, whatever. And that's something we might want to look into because that is a unique situation. That parking lot sits empty except on Saturdays and Sundays and maybe sometimes Friday. something to look into. I know that they do not want to go to the expense of
putting in an underground storm water detention vault because that's what they're looking at doing and those things out there on uh on Sunset Beach will not work. They will fill up full of sand and water and uh it'll be a waste of time and money. So, let's try to work
with the Lions Club a little bit. The uh Anyway, y'all go at it. I I've had I've said enough. >> All right. I've got a few I got a few items. Um you know, at this last Tuesday's commission meeting, what the first thing on their agenda was actually
um hearing a a variance case that was on the Gulf side of G Boulevard. And I wanted to get a read on the board here of whether this board would propose to ask the commission for us to start
reviewing those cases rather than them coming going directly to the city commission and one being put onto their agenda. Let us have at least first whack at it um and treat it like any other property. if there I don't think there's
any reason we should treat the west side of you know G Boulevard any different than any other part of the city >> why it didn't come >> it used to be it used to be uh it used to be where we would see it first but then all of a sudden there was some type of rule that was captured and then now
it goes straight to the commission I mean I I hear where you're coming from I'm I'm good with that I think that that's probably the right avenue I mean we look at everything else within the the city um you know I think that there has been some things that go to the commission and they skip us And I mean, we've had a history of that over the last couple of months, but >> yeah,
>> I I can speak to that. Um, and I Jesse just stepped out. He would he's more well versed in this Jesse. >> It has to do with the ECL line and the county redrawing the ECL line. Am I correct? >> Yeah. Really? >> Well, I know I know that's what that particular variance was about, but I'm
just talking about in general all variances on that side. >> You took the words out of my mouth. >> I think everything could come to this. Yeah. Is there one specifically that has not? >> No, that was that was just one that came as an I was giving it as an example. Um, but there's several that in the past
that have go gone directly to the commission and there was there I don't think there's really any reason. In fact, you could say that this board is probably more qualified to look at these variances rather than them going to the commission first. >> Well, prime example, Chris, was the Treasure Island Resort.
>> Sure. This board never got to look at that variance they asked for. And I think if we don't make the final decision, at least we could make a informed decision to the city commission because Oh, there was a couple of them. Oh, you don't have hardship, >> right?
>> No, you're just reading the rule book. I mean, that one would be a very tough one because they asked for two additional floors >> and it became the height and density thing again. And >> so, we could change this. So it's treated >> the same throughout the city. All of it
goes to the PNZ and everybody has >> I was going to say right now we are creating a new chapter in LDRs that covers procedures. So one of those things like if we get a chance we can do a research of see why the code has always stated variances on a golf commission and in my opinion if there's
not a valid reason I think we could pull it out of there and then just add those into just come before the planning. >> So to make that change we'll have to have the commission obviously approve that. So what would be the process for us to do that? >> Yeah, it would go before them as like an ordinance of course whenever we update
the LDR. So they would see that. >> So but but are you suggesting we wait for the for the rewrite of this or we could make that motion now? >> I mean I guess we could create the LPA issue could as the LPA you could direct
>> I'm going to defer to our attorney. Generally, um, a planning board does talk about different, um, ordinances that would be needed as a conceptual, um, study or review. Um, I mean, I'm not
I've only been here two days, okay? So, give me a little break. >> Sorry. >> But I don't think it would be um out of line to suggest um perhaps looking into the the drafting of something like that. Generally, we don't draft until we get
direction from the um the local government, the elected officials. But um you know, I think we hear you. We hear what your need is and I just want to make sure procedurally we go through the right uh avenue, but it is a policy that concern that they're raising.
>> Sure. So, um I immediately consider timeline. So you uh make a motion for us to act and create an ordinance. Um that requires two readings and it requires a posting. So technically that takes about
six weeks. Um we only have one meeting in December. So we're looking at the end of January. We are in the second phase of the LDRs. And and I would just ask if you use it to our discretion to see which is faster
and more efficient. Yeah, that makes sense if it since we're going we could make the change within the LDR. >> That's a compromise and then you could have and then have have the city commission obviously approve that LDR. So that makes sense to me and I'm happy to we're all in agreement to go that direction.
>> I'm happy to communicate what that time looks like and and set realistic expectations. Um >> I don't think it's a huge hurry. It's not it's just like a longterm thing. >> Sure. So, >> so Chris >> the was it is it just for variances that we
want to have it because I think site site plans I think site site plan still comes here though >> uh do they come here first I do they do okay so I think it's just very >> so why would site why would site plans come here I'm not sure the commission >> and the treasure island resort both came
before this board so yeah we get to see it vers first but I don't know why the variances always went directly to the Good. It's a good call. I'm on board with that. Sounds like we can fix the glitch. >> I'm going to have staff that's been here more than 5 months or 6 months.
>> I just phoned a friend. Um, so talked to Marielle and procedures chapters is something that this can be addressed through. The bulk of this can be addressed through. I think our code mentions it in a couple other spots. So, there will probably be some touchup that is set to come, I believe, before you all soon. Um, soon is what I got from
her. So, I'm sure there'll be a little bit of followup with legal. We'll follow up with um the commission side of things and get that before you. >> Yeah. So, I kind of fall back on the same answer. Whichever is more efficient >> um to move it forward, >> right?
>> Variances on the beach to the commission meet or to the planning and say get us back our variance meetings. We want them. But another example I'd like to make is uh I had a variance uh request on my street and at that time because it involved parking on the street uh it was
sent directly to the city commission and they did rule in the correct way but there was no way that that should have gone to the city commission. It was on my street and I live on the bay side. So, we just need to straighten it out. And I I really don't have any problem
just saying, "Hey, this is our recommendation." I do think sometimes that this board has more expertise than uh some of the city commission. >> No comment. >> Take some of the politics out of it. >> Make the changes. >> That that that is that what Yeah. So,
the recommendation from staff would be that you allow us to look at the timeline um if you did it independently versus what we did through the LDRs. My my expectation is it's pretty it's going to be pretty close to the finish line either way, but more efficient through the LDR. >> Okay.
>> So, if you would just allow us the opportunity to make that um >> you know that decision among staff with your interest in mind, we respect you know great >> your your desire on that. >> That's good. I I just have one other item.
I cut it down to two because I think the other one's been taken care of now. Um, >> you know, we as a board helped pull together the changes that were made with regard to what uh setback um
allowances were given for lifting homes or for putting I guess a second story on and this. So, this goes into maybe some of the questions Richard um had as well, but I know of a couple of cases. One came um directly to me, you know, by
phone of someone who was involved in a new build right now. And I've been looking around the neighborhood. The whole issue of treating HVAC units that are being hung on the side of the homes in within the setback being, you know, they're hung up high now. So, you see them before they were on the ground so
nobody saw them. Now you see them with all these homes on a new build being raised up. However, the way we've written the rules, we've only allowed for the allowance of the stairwell up to the electric meter or power meter um on
elevated or I think for second story add-ons, not for um new home development. And yet there's some that are going up that way. and I think they're running into some problems with maybe plans were they those things weren't included on the original plans
and then later they were put up by the folks that were completing the house. I'm of the opinion in looking at this from a very practical point of view that having that small stairwell which is usually then hidden behind a fence
really should be allowed on new builds so that you don't have that you can fully utilize the lot and you're not inter I think causing anything to look poor against the neighbor and you're allowing what Duke Power wants to have
this stairwell up to that power meter. It's what I think is happening now is we're finding people having to put power meters on the front of the houses or doing something odd to the con of the configuration of the house in order to allow that stairwell up to that power meter. It seems that since we're hanging
things off the side that are in view anyway, that are much more obtrusive than a simple stairwell that only goes up 5t or less on the side of the house, uh would be a simple change we could make to allow just better building of
new homes within um within Treasure Island. Now, I realize that, you know, this is an add-on to what we had allowed for allowances um after the storm, but I think it would be a good ad. And so I wanted to bring it up today to get really a read on the rest of the board
if there was support for that or objection. >> Well, what I've always said in the past is architects need to sharpen their pencil and not come into this board asking for a variance. And pretty much when we did that because I've been sitting on this board since 2013,
they quit. They stopped. We didn't see a variance for Duke Power Platform and haven't seen one that I recall for a while. And uh it can be done. >> It can be done for sure. >> And it was just very easy to say, "Hey, I need one." The one thing I would like
to see, and I was just thinking about it, like my next door neighbor, she built a nice house right next door and her two air conditioning units sit out on the platform in the setback like you're allowed to cuz it's just there.
It's just the weird configuration of those lights down there. But have a situation where you could put the Duke power platform and the air conditioners, have them both accessed off a set of steps would be really smart, >> right? >> And uh that would be something that I
would uh support because I think that would be a smart way to do it because you're going to have the uh air conditioning unit sticking out in the set back anyway. >> It's more obtrusive than the meter itself and certainly more obtrusive than the steps. So I think from a practical
point of view that it's it is you you've said no harm no foul many times that that's what we should be doing on this board and that's part of the reason for me bringing it up today. >> Well, it's one of those situations where Duke Power unfortunately used to access these meters off a ladder. Well, they
had a guy fall off and kill himself or something. So now it's a fullblown set of steps. They don't read the meters anymore, >> right? It's crazy. >> You know, >> it's all electronic. Even our water meters are done electronically. So the only time you need it is when you pull
that meter, you have to pull hard, fall over backwards, and kill yourself. So these stairways have handrails so you don't do that, >> right? >> And you know, I'm all for safety. There's no doubt about that. But I agree with you, Chris. But if you cannot
figure out a way to not have it in the setback, try to incorporate it with the AC units maybe cuz we already allow the encroachment of the AC units. We being meaning being meaning the city. >> Y So I appreciate your your response.
Tell the uh architects to sharpen their pencils first and come in with that second. So you're you're thinking of we should just I guess not change the rule but ask people to come in as an with a variance if they need it. >> Come in with a variance if you need it but if you don't need it and there's no
guarantee I know you're shaking his head he's not going to give you a variance for it. Well, I that's why I was getting a read on on the on the board and see what I'm glad >> that's what we sit here for. And I mean that I I'm glad that you brought it to surface for discussion. And it's not that I'm for it or that I'm against
where the direction that you're trying to go. I I mean, I probably would just sit off to the side and just see what happens because there are ways around it. And I mean part of my foundation is for so many years of sitting on this board where they previously did have issues of these stands they like Richard
has mentioned we have made it very clear. So now all of a sudden we would be changing that and that and I understand that you know like that that's how we want to proceed forward potentially. >> I just know that there are ways to do a Duke energy meter with having to do
stairs. >> Yeah. Yeah, I was interested when you So you're saying if you raise the the lower level up two feet, which is what most people are doing on the lower level that that allows >> I understand that not everybody not I understand >> it's only and it's those circumstances that you're actually high enough up now
that that meter can be reached without a set of stairs. Is that the idea? >> So I made that comment earlier. My plans are for my personal residence are not approved by any means. They're but my architect is very familiar with working with the city. I am not going to have to put stairs on the side of my house for my Duke meter to be.
>> They can stand at grade. >> They can stand in grade and see it or get to it, I guess. What's the rule? How is it have to be less than 5T or something? I don't >> 5t from >> from a grade to Okay. >> Interesting. >> So there might be some innovative ways of allowing people to do that if they're
if they're that I guess that only work like the stairs in the front. So like I understand if we're saying we're not going to let me give you this perspective. So, if we're not going to say stairs or if we're going to say Duke Energy stairs are allowed to go outside of the setback, is that going to then open it up to the front entry stairs are
allowed to go over the setback? >> No, I don't think so. I'm I'm very I'm thinking this is >> I understand that specific for me, but >> yeah, very >> for many of years we have always had that stairs stay inside the setback. So, >> I mean that's just again I wouldn't I'm not saying yes or no. I mean, you can
bring it up however you want, but >> yeah. Um, well, >> tell me quick. So, I'll redo the plans in my house. I'm kidding. >> So, I'm in favor of doing this and and allowing a, you know, three foot, you know, small small stairwell that's not
only going up so many feet. We'd have to get to the details of that so that it's always behind a fence and it's not intrusive just to avoid this issue of accessing the electric meter. Um, and it would, I think, allow the architects a
little more flexibility on lots in the future, and it might resolve some of the issues of some current homes that have will have this problem that they'll probably have to come before this board for a variance. >> Well, what was pretty obvious years gone by was it was a second
thought. Oh crap, I needed a uh Duke Power. Oh, yeah. I'll just throw it in the setback and I will come in, oh shoot, after the fact. And we'll ask the uh the board with it. You know, they're rubber stamp. Those guys will do anything. I get that all the time, >> which which we know that's not true. So,
that's >> not anymore. >> We're going to have to hire we're going to have to hire security for Jesse >> because of the amount of people that he has told to go back and do it again. >> Not a bad idea. >> Seriously, I mean, there's got to be a long list of people that have come in here and we have told them to go back
and do it again. >> Well, I'll make a motion that we allow um a three-foot stairwell only for the point of reaching access to the electric meter on the side setback of a new build.
>> Okay, we got a motion on the floor by Chris Downey. >> I second. >> You say new build specifically, sir. >> New construction. I think a limit on it of five feet >> in height. >> That's fair. Yep. Um, I I I can tell you
from my perspective as a builder, there's a lot of new homes that need to be rebuilt in in Treasure Island. I know we talk about density and and um developers being able to maximize, you know, on the return um building a house 3 ft less on a 50 foot long st you're
building it 150 to 300 square feet less. And with the cost of building go right now, um that that really brings the scale of economics down on the cost of a building a new home um and with the small lots and side setbacks that we
have. Um it is the biggest obstacle in designing a home right now in Treasure Island. But I want to amend your amendment uh your motion rather to include uh I don't have any problem with it if you incorporate for both of them because I I used to work on heating and
air conditioning units and there's nothing worse than having to work on one off a ladder. >> Yeah, I'm I'm happy to amend that too that it would it would include access to the HVAC unit on the side. >> Is 3 ft sufficient >> Duke requires 3 ft x 5 foot platform
platform? >> Yes, they are. Okay. >> They don't require anything for the >> that can hang. >> So there like there's a property on Tarpin Drive that has the Duke meter on the front step. Like you basically the front steps are in the setback and the
meter is right there in the front and it's just covered with like some louvered closets. I mean that is a simple >> that is what that is a simple solution um that's out there. You know when it comes to I mean yeah you can put it in the front. And there's a house on Dolphin where it's in the back. Um, you
know, in the back patio, it doesn't have any separate stairs. I mean, I think about the wood being, you know, like the I know you're a builder, but I mean, in 5 years, these things get rotted out. I mean, it's not like people are spending a bunch of money on putting nice stairs in. There's really only one
>> house is that it that it be pressuret treated lumber. >> Yeah. I mean, the house that Lubkey built on Dolphin, whatever, two or three years ago, you look at those steps and it's just I mean, they're got whatever. Yeah, I'm fine. Go ahead. >> They have to meet code. Yeah, of course. For for staff requirements per Florida.
>> Okay. We got a motion by Chris Downing, a second by Mark, and an amendment by me, which says you got to incorporate, if you're going to do these steps, you're going to do both the AC units. And a lot of times on these bigger houses, it's more than one. And uh but
it'll include the meter platform and however many AC units it comes to be. How's that sound? >> I just to be clear, is that saying that they if they're going to be allowed to do it, they have to incorporate the AC units? >> That is correct.
>> What if the AC units are not able to be located a practical distance? >> Then they can always come in here for variance. >> Well, is this going to have to go is this going to have to go in front of the commission for like approval? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> This would be a new ordinance. >> Yeah.
What the >> I'm sorry. >> The only thing I want to look into on this one is to make sure that there are no conflicts with the Florida building code on some of our smaller setback areas. So, I do want to do a little bit of research, but just to make sure that I have it right, we're going to do an ordinance that allows an encroachment
for new construction that is only the size of what Duke requires, no extended platforms, and includes access to the ACs if it's on that side of the house. >> Correct. >> Okay. I just want to make sure I have everything you want. five feet from grade >> not only if it's on that side of the
house at any time. I mean, I don't want some guy to say, "Oh, my air conditioning unit's over here and my meters on the other side of the house." Okay, you can come in and ask for a variance. >> Okay. >> And you can't get it unless Ross Sanchez is still on the board. >> What we >> What's the smallest What's the smallest
sideyard setback in in Treasure Island? >> We have none. 5T is next up from that. So, >> so if you have a five foot setback, three foot stairs, there's that leaves two. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> What if you have none?
>> So, if a fire firefighter has to carry a ladder through the backyard up in the air and he's got two feet of wiggle room and there's >> Look at that house we just approved. >> I mean, that is that area is tight as can be down there. So, I'm I'm actually
I would be happy to amend my motion to only include those areas that have 10 foot side setbacks. >> We'll make it seven and a half. >> Sorry, seven and a half. Seven and a half and above setbacks. >> Most of the setbacks in in Treasure Island are 7 and 1/2t sides >> or 10. Right. I'm happy to
>> So just just to be clear, we're at three foot stairwell, 5 foot from grade including electric meter, heat, HVAC, and only seven and a half side setback >> or more >> or more less miscom variance. >> Correct. And and what but you could
include it's a three-foot with a five foot platform. >> The minimum requirements. >> The minimum requirements. Yeah. >> Minimum requirement. Yep. >> An area like Sunset Beach. I mean, doesn't have seven, half five foot. They're going to have to >> They'll have to come up with better ways
to do it. >> They wouldn't necessarily be able to do it. Not necessarily a variance, but they would have to do some of the things that Ross said, be more innovative about putting it on the back or the side. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm treating different residential areas with different >> We're doing what we can for those that
>> thing is it depends on how >> Let's put this way. There's there's different setbacks all over this city. I mean, people ask me all the time, what's my sideyard setback? I got I got no idea. Five, seven and a half or 10. Take your pick. >> I I would just ask before we move
forward that we um ask the city attorney for her legal opinion. >> Well, as far as far as the actual language or because this is language that you're going to put in the draft LDRs that are going to come back to you.
So, we'll go back and work on something. it. Hopefully, it is what you intend, but there's been a lot of discussion, so it's going to be a little challenging to actually put that into words, but we will do our best attempt to do that and bring it back to you. You'll have the
opportunity to comment on it. >> That's fair. Yep. I mean, we're making the motion for you to draft it and >> to include it in there. Yes. Do you want to include it in the LDR updates or a new ordinance? >> Whichever is faster. Whichever faster. Okay.
Okay, I think you're out of vote. >> Okay, we're already we're we have massaged that one a bit. So, let's have a roll call vote then. >> Gay Patenciano. >> And we're talking new units again, right? Just to make sure. >> Okay. Yes. >> Ross Sanchez,
>> no. >> Mark Sadeski, >> yes. >> Chris Downing, >> yes. >> Grant Smith, >> no. >> Marvin Shavelin, >> yes. >> Richard Harris, >> yes. >> Thank you. >> All right. What was your last issue, Chris? >> I I lowered it down to two. The other one I was talking directly to Jesse
about and that was a separate thing. >> Okay. Well, we I was able to figure out that reduced front yard set back due to the amount of fill and I sent you that information. >> Interesting. You know, I don't know if everybody understand you mentioned it earlier, Jesse, but >> you just need to read that verbiage and it's it's on my phone.
>> Yeah, it's a little complicated. >> It's confusing, >> but it does allow Yeah. some of the stairwells in the front to extend into the setback if you're raising that first level and the formula for that which many of I don't think many of the architects are actually aware of that
and maybe that you know that that's still in place because we're still applying the TMM rules even though we're trying to simplify that. >> We are not. >> Oh, you're not applying that. So if you're not does that mean they can't use the TMM? the the TMM was repealed in the
meeting um >> yes >> where I was acting city manager. >> So that means that rule does not apply then. >> Correct. We went back to simple drainage >> the height adjustment factor. >> We'll have to get an opinion on that because >> I had a meeting with the city manager where it is not repealed and it is being
used as reference material. So we need to get a clarification on that. What Gary Volenac and I are doing is writing a summary and basically taking 134 pages of lots of verbiage and reducing it into probably about a 10-page document that
gives the bullet points. >> But Bobby, I think you you're correct though that >> it what it was actually taken off for residential use. Correct. >> Temporarily. I think it was excluded for a period of time. >> The order the the motion was to repeal
and replace. So, if I can have Jackie um step up, we created a new checklist with a simple >> drainage plan. The manual that he is speaking of still exists and it's still referenced to in our code and those are changes that we have to make. It will be replaced with a summary versus the
manual which is okay >> the beast that everyone had a hard time with. But, uh we are simple reviews >> right now. We need to get a clarification on that because I had a meeting with the city manager with Gary and I talking about the revisions and I
said while I hate the TMM, I don't think it was well written, there's a lot of good reference material in there. So, let's put it on the back shelf and keep it. But this is what this small summary that you're that you've been asking about, Chris.
>> And Gary sent me a copy of that. So, I have >> I have a copy. Oh, you did get a copy. >> I have a copy now. >> Yeah. I mean, it all it was was a FHA grading lot standards that I found from Orange County, Florida, and we took a bunch of different ordinances from
various cities and combined them all and modified it and massaged a little more to make it applicable to Treasure Island. And >> so, I thought I understood you were basically making this be a guide for the guide, if you will. And if but is that that's I guess what we need to get
clarification on going forward. Um because I it at this point it's repealed for residents. >> Correct. The order was that the the direction of the commission was to stop reviewing based on TMM requirements. We
went back to simple drainage with a new checklist. We are working on modifying the code which comes through our second phase of LDR. But we still have a manual that's referenced. No, >> it won't be second phase of LDRs. >> It'll be first. We've we've broken the connection for single family homes and
for seaw walls for right now and that's where the emergency ordinance comes in and we operate every 60 days. I believe they re-review that. >> Um Gary and Richard have written the drainage plan to replace TMM. So all references, all
>> everything TMM will go away. Right now we have TMM in place because the commercial drainage standards, >> right, >> that's not as straightforward as a a single family home. um which we've learned from you two telling us um but the the commercial side is still used for TMM >> right
>> it's it's single family and seaw walls that is not right now the whole thing will be replaced as we move forward >> today you're operating without the TMM >> but with the guidance of that a sealed signed and sealed drainage plan
>> that's correct >> accompanies all permits that would require them >> that's correct including seaw walls. >> That's correct. Yes. >> And the main main thing was Chris, the biggest hangup was farming this stuff out to various engineering firms because
it was just taken way too damn long and they >> No, I think it's a positive thing simplifying this and that's what everyone has asked for and it'll make it your job. Well, maybe not your new job, but your >> predecessor's job or you say first
that'll come back through here. um but separate from phase 2 of LDR. So you'll be seeing those ordinances not too long from now >> for new home builds that also people are wanting to do a seaw wall. You all are still most likely going to require a site plan drainage
plan for that new home before a seaw wall permit is issued if they're lifting both seaw wall and house. >> They're going to have to do them in working together. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. You already knew that Ross. No, I just wanted to make sure other people know because I don't want them to live
in the hell that I've been living in for the last year. >> Those two pieces, it's it's challenging. So, yeah, yours is one that you have. >> I wasn't talking about my I was talking about other residents having the same types of feedback that I have >> cuz I I I shared one
with Jesse that showed the seaw wall going higher than the existing slab on grade house, which doesn't make any sense. >> Won't be allowed. >> He gave me it's going to flow the wrong way. And I think he's given that to you now. >> Yeah, he gave them both to me this morning. So, I'll look into those, see what answers I can find for you.
>> That seaw wall would never be approved. >> That's I think >> we have we have an example that exists that way here in Treasure Island and lots of people have visited that house and there's no solution. No solution. The the seaw wall is higher than his
garage >> and it exists and it was ridiculous and I can't believe it got built that way, but it did. So, it's obviously something you got to really make talk about keeping your pencil sharp on this going forward with all of these. >> They're going to come. >> I would actually like for that to get approved because then if you're building
a new seaw wall and you're haven't started on your house, you could build your seaw wall and the water could flow into the middle of your lot. That would actually work in favor for some people. >> Yes, indeed. >> Okay. Interesting. >> Get a perk. Uh, >> but if I come in for a variance, I still have to have a site plan, drainage plan
is what I'll >> go get a perk test. Maybe your water will perk away faster now. Anyway, >> 11 months. Anything else? We uh have our next uh LPA meeting on it would be December 11th, but we pretty much always
push those back to after the P&Z meeting. Sounds like Jesse, we are definitely having meeting on December 18th. So, is there any chance of having Kimley Horn uh get moving and get something that we could see
in January maybe? Cuz let's put this way. I used to compete against those guys. They move at the speed of mud. >> I would like to under promise and overs serve. Uh some of our stakeholder meetings are happening in the month of December. Um
community is still yet to be slated. I think it's a reasonable request, but I certainly can't speak for them and I hear you and I will do my best. >> We'll see him in We'll see him in January during OPA meeting that I hope we have in January. How's that? >> That's fair.
>> Okay. >> So, what do we decide for December? >> Richard's going to dress up as Santa Claus. >> PNZ meeting. >> Yeah, we have several. We'll have several variances, I think. >> PNZ >> 18th. >> 18th. >> 18th. >> Gary, we decided you're bringing the cookies. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> I got it. >> Anything else? >> Who's bringing cookies? I think we beat
this thing to death today. Anything else? Motion to adjurnn. So move. We're out of here. Thank you.