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okay John Let's have at it right good morning and welcome to the special Commission meeting for February 7th 2025 I'd like to call this meeting to order now if we could please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to
the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I hope I didn't hit you with my chair no okay see clerk would you please call the role commissioner Toof here commissioner krael here commissioner minning here vice mayor dicki here mayor doctor here all right moving down approval of
the special agenda anyone have any changes or okay then we will continue to move on and let me pull up my computer real quick there we go okay so uh first issue is public comments do we have any public comments hi Barb please come up Barb Adams a of Palms um oh a couple
meetings ago I had mentioned um one of the residents who had told me about a large um permit fee for lifting her house and I said 10,000 but it was actually a little over 9,300 so I wanted to make that minor correction um but still I do hope that when the fees are being looked at um elevation fees are going to be waved or the permit fees for elevating because you know if somebody's putting many
hundreds of thousands of dollars into making their home um taking from their retirement everything else because they love this community they're not going to have to be big fee um in order to do thank you all right we'll close the public comments and we'll move on to items of business our first item excuse me may mayor if I could um
I do after barbett brought that up a few meetings back we had staff look into this and yes there was a 9300 or $9,400 fee that was in there um we went back and looked at the calculation of the fee and found that there had been an accounting mistake so the fee was actually reduced to a little bit over $6,000 so that's good news and we also were able to to validate that the the way that the fee was calculated was according to the schedule that was adopted by the commission so basically
for every I think it's a every thousand of improvement there's about an $11 charge so it was it was 500,000 or in excess of $500,000 in improvements which part of the the elevation was a portion of that but it wasn't just attributed to Elevation it was most of it was though yeah and most I I didn't get an exact breakdown didn't have that but we did do the research on it we're able to notify the property owner that there was a reduction so just just so you know we
did follow up and also let the commission know that so thank you great thank you all right so D1 resolution 20253 fourth resolution to wave certain permit fees through May 31st 2025 and to provide reimbursement of specific previously collected fees our staff presentation please good morning mayor and Commissioners uh I just wanted you to know you had a a new copy of the ordinance on your desk this
morning morning when you came in uh there was one minor change on page three you'll see that it's in bold and what that is is just clarifying that we um are not waving or rebating the state search charge that we're required to collect which is since the permit fee is um zero that would be $4 on a permit great thank you
so at the commission meeting on February the 4th the commission requested that staff prepare a fee waiver for all permits and plan examination fees associated with repair or demolition of storm damage caused by Hurricane Helen and hurricane Milton to residential or commercial buildings and to rebate those Associated same fees um going dating back to September the 24th so the uh purpose is to discuss extending this waiver um to May 31st and waving the
permit fees so that's what you have before you today any questions uh the question I have and it's probably more for the for the commission than uh than for Katherine but there were three types of permits that I wanted to get clarification on whether they were going to be included or excluded from this uh from this uh resolution and the first one is a complete demolition I know we've mentioned demolition several times
already but uh I've heard demolition used as uh as the first step in in in going through hurricane recovery when we you know demolish up and pull out all the the drywall and all the damaged uh part of the structure from the from the flood so that that's that's one type of demolition so the three types of uh permits that I wanted to get clarification from to see where the other Commissioners stood was a complete demolition which is tearing the entire a
house or structure down that's one type of permit another one uh which uh we just heard brought up was elevating a a new structure would that be would that fall under the same consideration and then the third one is building a new home so you've already torn your house down now you're going to build a new one is that also uh uh again I'd like to hear from the other Commissioners what their thoughts on on on on I guess where we where we draw the line on on uh on this if it's after you build a new home
before you build a new home or or where it is I'd like to hear other thoughts Katherine can you give the commission the the layout of those three so so this was the language that was selected at the meeting which is uh the new language as compared to the interior demolition that was already in the in the um prior fee waivers that we carried forward but the new language is permits and plan examination fees associated with repair or demolition uh so to me that would be
repair or demolition whether it's interior demo or full demo um but it would re repair of existing and would not cover the way that it's written um building a new house or elevating a house okay if we want to come back and bring that you know if that's the commission Direction but that would be a different ordinance and if I could I me different resolution I'm sorry and Katherine if I could but commissioner I think you mentioned that first one on
demolition which would be included yes full demo yes so that would be the three all right thank you all right any other questions I it would be my uh my view at this point on having it stand as is is there some should we maybe consider some um type of reconsideration for the rebuild or the elevation but at this point I think we just want to get
our residents back in their homes and know and get those permits and no fees tied to them I'm not saying that the other two items that you brought up um commissioner Dicky are not ones that maybe we want to consider doing a partial on or completely or none at all um but right now I think I want to stay on task on how it's written so that we can go forward and get this implemented ASAP for all of our residences and business businesses okay think yeah I I
would agree with what commissioner Crable had to say I concur um because also there will be some State funding also for people to elevate their houses with the Elevate Florida um grants that are coming through so I think we should at least try to work those Ino yeah y but I'd like to see it stand as it is no problem with the standing as is but um
folks who have received a letter of substantial damage of greater than 50% um listed in that letter are two options either Elevate or you you tear down uh and so we're not going to uh acknowledge that that's a hardship on the folks who received those letters how much more are we going to pay I mean this is this to me is a is a partial at best and and also like
Florida um pod I don't think that money might not happen for years I've looked into that too and it could be years and then they're also saying that there they will decide who will do the project for you I mean that to say that we might be getting grant money that's totally a nebulous uh okay thank you people right now need to either get out or sell their homes or raise if they want to stay here
and a lot of us don't have any other choices we can't wait okay we're actually having discussion here between the Commissioners but we do appreciate your feedback let me may I continue please um second part of this is um don't forget that this is retroactive so whether it's enacted today or whether it's enacted two weeks from now or a month from now it would still be retroact retroactive so uh um
my fellow Commissioners I think that side of the equation is covered the just the part that's not covered is that uh every day we're issuing new permits so it's going to it would add an additional burden on that re refund process so right now we probably have maybe 1,400 permits that we have to refund if we if we wait another week or two it could be it could be 1,800 so we would hope yeah well and also we have people who are waiting until this meeting today day
hoping that this passes so I just wanted to put that out there I think earlier you had mentioned there's like 25 people that are waiting speciic get their per told I'm not picking up my permit until they have this meeting so I would like to see the commission though come up with a date certain to discuss the fees for elevating and for um new home or reconstruction because right now those people don't have any recourse
I mean there is no refunding of fees and those are some substantial fees so I think the commission should should address that sooner rather than later could we address that at our meeting uh February 18th okay yeah that's but let's make it a date certain okay we're getting head nods with the February 18th just we'll make we'll go ahead and vote on this as as stated looking at our city manager thanks M yeah what what like to do is be
able to bring that piece back because we do need to identify and to lay out for the commission and the community how this rebate program will work I understand that some people are thinking that as soon as this has passed they can come back and get their reimbursement but we are we have to work to as we mentioned at the last meeting you got two accounting systems in two different departments and we have to make sure they communicate we're not trying to slow down any type of rebate back for folks but just to make sure the city's books are compliant with what we do on the rebate side of the house from the
Community Development and the permit side you know we can't have one out of whack or we'll be in trouble when it comes to the audit so we need to get that piece together did hear the community if there's a way to pull a spreadsheet without purchasing software and to make this simpler we'll do that but we also need to make sure we have we have to get some staff that are dedicated and understand that to do it we need to hire a person on a temporary basis to do this or maybe use some of our volunteers for that or use other volunteers if we can do that you know we have to be yeah we'll we'll look into that commissioner okay yeah I think
commissioner Dicky is asking I'm sorry commissioner minning is asking that uh that we take up at the next meeting or as soon as we can the uh the lifting of the homes or the rebuilding of the home completely okay yes we we'll put that on for the 18th uh and could we have a discussion make sure that that's what everyone wants so that before we write a resolution and bring it to you just to make sure that everybody's on page I don't know I I know that uh and I didn't bring the papers with but uh most of the
cities are not doing the lifting um or doing a the new home build um but I I wish I had the paper in front of me but I don't and I I had some of that information also but I don't have it with me and they had not been so I'd like to get some of that information to bring it back to the commission um and thank you director y know just looking to see if there's there three Commissioners who would like us to pursue for the 18th to bring that back well I think we could do a workshop I mean the people that are lifting their homes and then rebuilding their homes
it's not going to matter you know if it's another couple of weeks or so so I think I'd like to Workshop it okay I agree with that well I would also like to bring up um Mr Mayor that and and commissioner minning that we do have a couple of recourses because they can go out and get a an actual cash value done and they can they can just they can have reconsideration for assessment on that but some people are are talking about
lifting just so they don't have to go through a flight again not that they had substantial damage of the 50% or more and I think those are some of the things that we should look at to identify where are you going to have that Line in the Sand because there are different situations for the elevations and I'm not trying to me me but I mean we've got to look at it uh a little more holistic and look at individual cases before we start saying that we're are or aren't
going to do it because we do have some um repercussions if that I shouldn't say repercussions we have other avenues that we can get away from the substantial damage and things so I want to make sure that we don't rush into that because like most people know we're not going to be able to most people aren't going to be able to elevate their house in the next couple of weeks and stuff so I just wanted to put that out there that we
have some people that want to elevate but they're not required to they're just doing it because they just don't want to go through the mess again yeah okay so yeah i' definitely Workshop it versus bringing it as a resolution good idea agre okay okay uh is there any public comment on this okay so we'll close public comment uh do we have a motion I move to approve resolution
2025-the approved permit fees to add a waiver fees for all permits and plan examination fees associated with repair or demolition of storm damage caused by Hurricane Helen and hurricane Melton to residential and commercial buildings and to rebate any previously paid fees associated with these types of permits retroactive to September 27th 2024
do we have a second second we have a motion and a second any additional discussion no say clerk would you please call roll vice mayor dicki I commissioner Toth I commissioner krael I commissioner minning hi mayor doctor I okay and that was unanimous All Right Moving On to D2 terrain modification program
revisions performed by Advanced engineering design Inc at the request of the city commission good morning uh the commission requested additional work be performed on the terrain modification program the goals of this work authorization are to modify the proposed ordinances and the terrain modification manual in a manner that incorporates the nine approval conditions outlined by the C City's LP a/
commission and uh the it is to authorize the expenditure of $ 31,700 two is the manual revisions that go with this as we explained at the last
meeting the majority of the work in these changes um for the consultant are in the manual the majority of the work for the city is in the ordinances and as requested by the commission the attendance at public meetings um or the presentation of meeting materials is not part of the scope of work um that was adjusted to take that out at the commission's recommendation uh the funding for this project would come out of the storm water fund and this work was not
budgeted in the fiscal year 2025 storm water budget um and we'll leave it to you to discuss thank you all right any uh questions for the staff no sir okay I U I don't actually have a question but I do have a statement that that I would like to uh to make um clearly uh I definitely am in favor of fi dirt I mean we've been
talking about this now for years and uh going back to the August 20th meeting of the commission uh the commission asked for an alternate simple fil dirt ordinance proposal and uh we we've not seen that proposal and uh and now uh we are trying to rush a $31,000 expenditure uh for a reev for a revision 32 days before the new commission is
going to be seated um so I I would think that it's it's poor timing or for some maybe they think it's good timing but uh I would like to uh basically see that uh that this doesn't take a final vote even though it's it is $31,000 and $31,000 is $31,000 um so I would like to uh to actually uh move this um or actually probably
I don't know what I would uh I would want to table it I guess you could table it if you want to pick it up at any time in the future or you could continue it to a date certain so a motion to table or a motion to continue to a date certain okay I would say uh motion uh to a date certain of March 18th yes uh I am not in favor of that uh We've kicked this can down
Road adium I'm and uh I I think it's time that we put this to bed for $ 30 some, considering where we've been and the implication of this this gets us to allow Phil in the quickest fashion and this commission is entirely capable of making that decision we don't have to wait for a new commission um to do this so that's where my my head is
I concur with you and I'd like to make a motion that we continue this discussion that we continue move this forward oh I see you don't need a motion to continue the discussion disc I didn't quite catch what you said sorry I'm a little congested yeah we that it would be a motion to continue the discussion to another day the discussion is already get this done with since and I concur with commissioner's mening and Toth I do too um LP a from being a
member on that we have worked they have worked at this point now not we anymore um for a year and a half and it was all about trying to get get the fill implemented in that and when we go back and really where a lot of the objections for some of the stuff that comes before the commission the residents and people should truly be going to those LPA meetings and getting
their objections done there because that's what brings everything forward to the commission and therefore knowing the work that they have done and I do know that there are members in the LPA that they feel like the commission ignores all the hard work that they have done to bring different things forward and being sensitiv some to that and we are with
nothing on 10 years mandatory that gives a new commission maybe even eight years down the line to come back with a better program and stuff but this does allow our Phill for now and we do have people that do want to do that especially with people that are wanting to elevate their houses we've had several of them in um Sunset Beach in particular that had came
to the LPA meetings asking for the fill because of their dire needs and stuff so I'm on that we need to take a vote today and push this on through we've got time that we can redo it no matter who's sitting up at this dis or anything else so uh we have a table we will'll take a vote on that correct on it being tabled you don't have a second if you had a second on the vote you okay who
made the motion I'm get ready to make the motion I think the mayor made a motion the tbling okay so uh I made so I guess we don't have a motion because as mayor I cannot make my own motion correct you can under the city's policies okay okay so uh so I've made the motion and I guess we do we have a second okay hearing none uh we'll go back to the motion that uh well let's
hold off on the motion to be taken um and let's move to public comment and Andrew vasy uh Andrew vasy District 2 um um I I'll I'll commend you for engaging the residents at the commission level because you filled this room up Time After Time uh on August 20th you
had us come and sit here for 4 and a half hours while we listen to a bunch of revisions to the offshore fishing ordinances and everything else before we could speak publicly as part of this commission you mention the go to through the LPA this commission went around the LPA to get to that point why did that happen because there was an agenda that was launched from the mayor who's no longer here from the um Deputy com Co
whatever she was called director of Public Works agenda who was here on Elevate TI there were memos written by the staff here that wanted to push people out of the houses the great ideas that came out of this was a 10-year look back that because of your hard work over a year and a half on this brought the residents out to kill that and to realize what this commission and the
staff we trying to do to the residents if you want to look at how government fails its residents look around this room today okay this staff had an agenda there's that has been going on the staff is gone three of you Commissioners here voted against this on August 20th okay you voted against all this and you asked for a simple filter ordinance the staff also within an agenda led by people who are no longer here you had a brand new
city manager and you were asked to bring a simple Fielder ordinance and you didn't do it and you resisted it and you misled as to why you couldn't bring it and you misrepresented how soon it could be done and you Commissioners who rejected it on August 20th were provided a road map on September 22 to do it and you did nothing with it you let the staff run over you and not do it or maybe you were complicit with it at that
point a month later but we we sit here now you've paid this firm a million4 for a storm water plan that intended to impose a tax on the residents to make us do a mandatory $200,000 Improvement if we wanted to raise fi dirt and then you sit here like you're somehow giving us a gift here the the the LPA failed us on the eight or nine issues putting a Mor on it is working off the wrong wrong documents
you all voted against this on August 20th and you asked for a simple fiart or you've never received it how you can analyze this and then come in here and vote and then put more money after this we go through a hurricane instead of putting the residents first the same people who recommend this couldn't figure out how to triage permits for 120 days and now you're going to sit here and say oh we're good we're ready to vote there is a new commission coming in they don't
have to wait eight years to change this we're going to wait 32 days so if you want to waste 31,000 more dollars go ahead and get on the record and vote bring your experience and your LPA work because your own committee was cut out by the commission because this was so agenda driven and go ahead and approve this to a company that has been under contract for the most part of seven years because the same people who are doing so good for the residents can even go and run run an RFP process to bring
new engineers in we had a 5year on call you just punt it on it for another two years and this is what we get this is what it looks like when government fails the residence and this is completely unacceptable and the res the only thing you've accomplished is you've organized and rallied the residents we're all going to be here on March 18th and then we'll take it up again from there we'll see who's here thank you very much thank you uh that's the only card I had is there
any other public comment Barb yeah I'm I'm confused um didn't we push the um fi dirt mandate 10 years down the road is that true no no no it's immediate pardon so there is I mean so if we use fil fi dirt we still have to pay the $200,000 there's no $200 there's no $200,000 a madeup number well and it's not a mandate is for the first
10 years this is voluntary so you want to bring yes for the first 10 years so if you want to bring fi dirt in you can if you don't want to you don't have to and you don't have to build to the full uh uh 7.6 feet that the city has identified as a Target if you want to build at six feet you can do so okay I was okay thank you great any other public comment seeing none we'll close public comment and move it on to commission a
motion commission yeah discussion uh we'll do that after we do the motion okay I move the city commission approve the expenditure of $331,700 for the commission requested the commission requested for the program revisions of the terrain modification program second we have a motion and a second then now discussion um Mr vassie made a comment that this
commission um I guess it was back in September is what he referred to that um we rejected this um I would add that um what is in front of us now uh includes nine um conditions recommended by LPA that are certainly and vastly different than what was presented way back last year Year and that to me was the game
Cher um because many of the things that this commission had issues with uh were addressed by LPA and are now included in the conditions for the U moving forward so that's uh I was sad to see that because there is another side to this story and the commission is sensitive to the needs and the resid needs of the residents and to me this is regardless
of where we've been this is the fastest way to get to a fill ordinance uh that we have in front of us thank you anyone I agree I was pretty much down the same Pathway to get this through to get it through to our residents so they can get working on it I I can very well said city clerk will you call the role vice mayor Dicky all I commissioner K to
I commissioner krael I commissioner minning I mayor doctor nay all right this is uh relatively quick today and all we have left is for the adjournment thank you