##VIDEO ID:JNADy6bH1nA## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I'd like to call this meeting to order good evening and welcome to the regular or not regular because we normally are on Tuesday but because of the election it's been moved to Thursday meeting uh now if we could please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of Al of the United States of America and to the repu for it stands under indivisible andice for all see clerk a roll call please commissioner Toth here commissioner Min here vice mayor dicki here mayor doctor here thank you now for the approval of regular and workshop agendas do we have any changes I have two I'd like to to make uh first one is add the city manager City attorney reports that was inadvertently left off and the second one is I would like to remove item i1 that is the contract for the living seaw wall um with c and Shoreline LLC and my reason for requesting that is I think we need more time to take a look at that and uh do a thorough evaluation of the numbers uh of the contract itself and the ramifications so that's my request how do you feel about that I I support both of those I think that's good because I haven't had a chance to really review the contract either I'm in the last bits of it but just okay so we will take uh let's see which one was it that was i1 i1 i1 okay we'll take i1 and remove it from tonight's agenda yes mayor um question would you like a briefing on the contract or anything about the living Shoreline piece just not a not a decision or just just information for the commission and the community that's all now we'd like a thorough review starting way back and the commission first said let's go ahead with this and then um how it evolved how the second uh bid letting why that was necessary and then why we wound up with the sea and Shoreline contract and then a thorough discussion of the funding and the sources for that and I'd like included in that discussion a zero alternative I.E a do nothing alternative yeah well they they do nothing alternative uh basically says that we may lose uh up to about a million 7 in grant money so that that'll have to be the discussion that that we'll have um but yeah I'm not sure that a zero alternative uh is the best way to go well I'm not advocating for a best way I'm advocating for a thorough discussion okay all right so commissioner if I could you you mentioned the second bid letting funding discussion and is z alternative correct correct okay thank you all right we will eliminate item i1 also the requests that commissioner minning made is I would also like to see the full detailed cost of this um seaw wall replacement included for comparison and the amount of M money's difference with the gr fund okay because that 1.8 million will make a big difference on what we put in there okay now did we have somebody that was going to speak tonight on the living seaw wall uh yes we did okay and are they in the room yes they are y it would have been uh director boils who prepared a uh rep for but no outside uh folks no outside so I I will uh apologize to Stacy that we were pulling that one off but I'm I'm glad that we don't have any folks that traveled here um and wanted to help us out and give us a presentation tonight so I I appreciate that so okay let's go ahead and move on uh we do not have uh any proclamations recognitions or certificates of appreciation uh at this point I'm going to stick in both the City attorney and city manager reports thank you City attorney do you have another report tonight we do not I'm I'm here to answer questions though if you had any I believe uh commissioner minning did U I do have the question and the question is how did we arrive at the um affidavit um I can read you uh City Attorney Jennifer Cowan's comments on that yeah Jennifer just for the audience said sent a an email right to the commission which was appreciated and if you could read that or if city manager could read that I think the audience would appreciate it all right so this is from Jennifer Cowan the city's attorney uh in regards to the affidavit first my understanding is that there is a FEMA affidavit that is required with permits this has been in place and was required before and after the Hurricanes after the commission direction to issue permits through the normal process but not to to wait for inspections to be complete the substantial damage assessment a second affidavit was drafted because of the enhanced risk at the commission meeting on November 1st both Commissioners Toth and Dicky discussed that they would like option two with an affidavit for residents to understand the risks associated with spending money and then subsequently being found to have substantial damage this revised affidavit was created and provided for indemnification an assumption of risk it explicitly identified some of the risk the property owner was taking in proceeding this way many members of the public stated in public meetings they were willing to take this risk there were also many members of the public that may come in and are not aware of the risks and need to understand those before moving forward since that time the city has also received information from the state nfip that is the national flood plane insurance program coordinator and the state flood plane manager that the risk for the city and its residents is that EMA audit determines that the substantial damage determinations did not have the necessary data to compare the cost of the repair to ensure the true entire cost of repair of all damage was included then femi can bring enforcement actions against the city which could impact all residents specifically the state nfip coordinator and state flood plane man explain that there are communities who have issued repair permits without the total cost of repair and that was a contributing factor that led to an enforcement action by FEMA specifically they advised that the easier way to ensure that the entire cost of the repair was contemplated when making the substantial damage termination was to conduct the assessment through a site visit further my understanding was that the original affidavit was to be used then the city had the full assessment with an inspection and the revised affidavit was only being used when the city did not have the full assessment with an inspection as those property owners were assuming a greater risk as discussed above thank you any questions okay is there anything else for the uh for the attorney uh well yeah if the Jenifer were here i' have a lot of questions I can I can give an attempt if you'd like um well why is it that we already under the normal permitting procedure the city requires an affidavit and on that in that affidavit you have to State the work to be done uh who's going to do it and the costs and you and you are subject to an audit uh under that affidavit correct correct okay and so now we come along and we put in a second affidavit and basically regurgitates the same thing he did the first one the difference between the two my understanding is that because without the inspection there's a greater risk specifically that FEMA uh might take action against the entire city if they're not in compliance with the national flood plane uh insurance program well let me backtrack a second because under the first option where you go and get an affidavit sign and list the costs and the money involved that's subject that itself is subject to an audit by FEMA and we get audited I mean talk to our staff um we do get audited um so why is there an extra layer being added which basically does the same thing we we fill out the form we get it notorized we list all our expenses the costs and it's subject to a fem audit okay same to the same thing is it not again my understanding is the difference is the enhanced risk um I wasn't involved in the process of creating the second affidavit but the risk is the same because if you get it audited under the first again I read you Jennifer's opinion her opinion is that the risk is not the same here so she will be next week okay I I'll jump in here I I commissioner Toth and I both had suggested we thought it was a good idea that if people were were going to proceed with work uh before their home was inspected and before the substantial damage assessment was complete that they understood that if they were over the 50% that any money they put into it could could be at risk and that's that's really pretty much all you know I was hoping to accomplish is that people had a full understanding of of what the risk were in in in proceeding before the substantial damage uh evaluation was completed so so that's where I was headed with that that's exactly it just a double layer protection to make sure that this is what you're going into without a substantial damage assessment and well and it was designed it was it the intention I believe now I didn't uh not this particular document I was thinking of a a two two or three sentence uh disclaimer uh when I uh recommended that but the intent was to protect the resident from not spending money that they might otherwise uh have not had they had the full inspection report it wasn't to add any layer of complexity or difficulty it was just to make sure people were aware that they were taking that risk yeah that was my understanding as well okay thanks okay I I don't think there's a difference between the two personally I mean you're exposed either way if you're a homeowner and you put that down I'm going to do x amount of drywall and I'm going to do it at x amount per foot my contractors charge you me Y and I bundled all up and and that's my number and it's the number that I used in my first permit and it's the number I used in the affidavit for the FEMA I'll make sure to isn't my exposure the same I'll make sure to pass your questions along to Jennifer I yeah I've given you her opinion I'm not I don't TR I'm trying to put you on the spot but that's just my rationale is to I apologize um it was moving into option two to make sure that we were trying to expedite the permits and just make sure that it was very clear that you have a potential of spending a lot of money that might not pass the permits the substantial damage assessment and it was good good nothing that was intended to create a a roadblock or anything of that sort it was just to make sure that people were protected before they went off on their own without a permit all right I think that uh probably we've got all the answers that we're going to get so um let's go ahead and move on to the city manager report and within that city manager report tonight we're actually going to have uh a what third or fourth quarter uh review yes I correct mayor we're going to director Munger from Finance is going to come up and give a third fourth excuse me fourth quarter review for the fiscal year ending in 30 September okay so if I could before that happens I'd just like to pass on some information myself and um the community development director will be meeting with representatives from a well-known engineering firm tomorrow to discuss the feasibility of bringing their personnel to augment and bolster Our Community Development staff to take in process and issue permits Community Development is processing permits on Monday Wednesday and Friday and taking in permits on Tuesdays and Thursdays of course they're open for emergencies if something does arise they have ceased mobile permitting to focus on the processing since they open the doors back to the public and we got back into the building here since the 18th of October we've had about 950 customers that have come in and inquired or filled out applications for permit permit excuse me permits yesterday 300 permits were scanned and entered into the permit System since alen we've had 772 permit applications to put that into perspective in a normal year such as last year there were 1685 permits that were applied for from the community with Community Development and since Eline we've gotten approximately 772 out that 772 565 are in completeness review three are void 16 were incomplete 102 were in what you would call like a functional review so basically the areas that could be reviewed are fire engineering building zoning and flood plane 85 permits have been issued or have been issued and closed 85 substantial damage inspections we have not received the official data but we did inquire with the county 1878 out of 200 59 or 91% of the residential structures have been inspected for non-residential 90% or 151 out of 167 have been completed over in public works is asked to pass on that pelis county is applied for an emergency beach renourishment permit from the Army Corps that is currently in review and if it's approved we would begin Construction in 2025 commercial debris removal to update the community there will be a one pass for collection which will begin on Saturday November 9th this is for commercial debris removal RightWay entry forms are available on the city's website for properties that requir debris removal beyond the public right of way residential debris removal will also have one final pass that will be on Saturday no November 9th we ask that all properties move all of the storm debris to the curb at this time and ensure the debris is separated appropriately the will not be collecting hazardous materials including paint and chemicals at that time but the city is hosting two Hazmat turn-ins for residents one on Saturday the 16th and then also Saturday the 23rd of November it'll be between 9 and 12 at the old fire station on 108 storm water cleaning crews have cleaned lines throughout the city except for the completion of Sunset Beach where work is still ongoing we're waiting on Duke Energy to complete the disconnect to the El iCal utility so we can begin the demolish excuse me begin to demolish The Old City Hall and the Public Works admin buildings fire department has returned to normal pre-storm response modes and is working on replacing damage equipment resuming training inspections and Public public education activities and also working with the Florida Department of Emergency Management to prepare FEMA Grant applications to replace the damaged Fire Station Park and wreck has a um an update for the commission and I would ask commissioner hey Duke if she could come up here there's a number of items she would like to have a discussion with the commission and get some direction on it I commissioner commissioner did I say commissioner you did Cathy sorry thank you Kathy um few things we're here to talk about holidays and I know it's um kind of a weird time to talk about holidays but um it is something I have to address so we have the holiday boat parade tentatively scheduled for December 21st we need a consensus as to whether or not to proceed with the boat parade I will tell you that um all the Readington uh St P Beach and South Pasadena have canceled their Boat Parade St Petersburg is doing theirs on December 7th madira Beach on December 14th and Indian Rocks Beach is doing theirs on December 21st which be a conflict with ours meeting with the Marine Patrol and the police department there are still some concerns one that people aren't in their homes um that we might have debris in the Waterway um some people may not have their boats um I've reached out to all our 2023 participants which were 35 of them and I heard from four and said they would be okay with it as long as the waterways were clear so I need consensus on whether or not to proceed with the boat parade this year that's we can go each activity if you want so start with the boat parade well there still is a lot of debris in the I see it going up and down uh in and out with the tide every day so I would hate to uh give you the green light to proceed with that until we were assured that most of that debris has been picked up and staff's consensus is is to not do it this year um we have a lot of concerns about that and um when our Marine Patrol was driving the parade route that we did last year which was down all the fingers um noticed a lot of docks um damage and stuff so his recommendation was if we were to do it we'd go back to the old Route um and we also do not have a current viewing area which Treasure Bay is primarily our viewing area so that is closed and it's in the nighttime so it's even I think more dangerous with all that floating debris out there yeah I'd like to get back normaly you know and uh but I think that this probably is one that we should probably sit out there's going to be a lot of folks that still are not back in their homes and I think that uh it probably is best to to not do the parade this year okay yeah I Concur and focus on getting our people home okay thank you so item number two is our holiday decorations and although I love the Grinch I don't want to be it and it it um we met with the chamber the other day there was a lot of businesses and some of our residents and they felt we should go with the decorations now with that said it will be very limited um I don't believe we'd be able to put them up on Sunset Beach um the South Golf Boulevard still doesn't have all the new polls um from duke so we would be primarily focused on downtown um the whole 107th Corridor and North Golf Boulevard um Mike and I I've talked to the um holiday Decor company and Mike and would be riding around tomorrow seeing what poles are there um what trees are still there that are normally wrapped and what's missing and then giving a report to um the company to see what we can do so consensus is whether or not you want the decorations up this year as well I would say yes now getting back to normaly this is something you know that uh that you can do it it's not going to impact you know the the homes and but I think that the spirit of of being you know everybody being a community and uh and spending the the holidays together okay so and I know that I think the brackets and the power are still on West Golf so I don't know if we can heavy up on West Golf maybe and just see what we can do but I know there's seven poles that we counted were okay or still had brackets and power that we know of okay about the obviously the tree would have to be moved to City Hall um TI Park is not a place for the tree at the moment so um I've talked to the electrician we're just trying to come up with a location to put the tree and help run the power for the Christmas tree yeah um I'll backtrack a second and say I'm with the commission on not having the B parade so okay thought I'd add that on the decorations I would agree if we can at least have some joyous uh moment and something that uh gives you a little satisfaction to look and say mother nature you didn't get all of us but you got a good chunk well they are scheduled to go up um November 29th weather permitting in all the areas so I haveen until we're going to really focus um tomorrow and next week on just making sure where they can go and what we have okay and then last not but not least New Year's Eve fireworks um your thoughts on that as well what's the status of the um establishments along the beach um I spoke to them at the chamber meeting um some feel they won't be up till the first of the year however a few of them that had bars felt that it was important to have the fireworks for New Year's Eve um what's the cost of that 5,000 for a 5 to S minute show I'm in favor I'm in favor as well I concur I I don't primarily because I don't want anybody out on Sunset Beach uh trying to watch the fireworks from there but coming up here I suppose it's safe but it is it is too dangerous to be out on the beach in the nighttime uh e even as of uh earlier today so okay and we can get that messaging out we did it with Fourth of July with you know people Laing own fireworks so it did work we can get that messaging um still consensus at midnight yes all right that's it thank you thank you thanks thanks Kathy if I could ask director Munger to come up please all right good evening mayor and commission I uh provided you a uh report that I uh just finalized earlier this afternoon uh and I'd like to go through it just uh kind of briefly kind of cover some uh highlevel end of FY 24 uh finances um as of today we have closed 11 of the 12 periods from fy2 24 most of the expenses for that final period are in we just haven't done the final uh bank reconciliation for the month of September um but that should be uh coming shortly uh at the end of the year we had the city had recorded 82% of budgeted revenue and spent or encumbered 55% of it budgeted expenditures U the chart there on the first page has a u fund level summary for the revenues and expenditures um and a percentage collected for the entire year so it's pretty self-explanatory but um if you there any questions about that I'm more than happy to answer them uh looking at the general fund revenues um uh the taxes the or yeah taxes uh did fairly well since the property tax rate was held at the same 3.81 29 for FY 24 uh the final tax collection came in at the same roughly 10% increase reflected in the property value increases it's just a if property value goes up 10% and the rate stays the same revenues will go up 10% um even so the collections were about 60,000 less than the budget and this is due to that uh that whole less 5% which has now been corrected for the FY 25 budget so that should not be an issue uh moving forward uh utility taxes are relatively flat compared to FY 23 um um and the local business taxes are still below the prepandemic uh level that was the year that the commission waved all of the local business tax fees and the city has not yet quite recovered to that pre-pandemic level so that's just something uh that needs to be monitored going forward uh for permits and fees um the biggest issue at the end of last year was staff refunding about uh refunding Beach bookings for beach weddings um if people had weddings booked for the past month or two um it didn't feel right to charge them for a wedding that they couldn't have so we've been refunding that Revenue so that's going to be about uh 20,000 or so less than was budgeted uh for intergo mental Revenue uh we did receive a couple of grants for um prior or actually really FEMA reimbursements for prior year uh damage assessments um a $41,000 grant from USA to resurface Courts at Treasure Bay and the uh higher $75,000 visit St Pete Clearwater grant for sanding Ovations uh but the largest single revenue is the 3 million dollar in arpa that we recognized uh back in September but this is effectively a zero sum some um Revenue because that expense was transferred over to the Wastewater fund uh for the completion of that project uh there's one a little uh concerning Trend in the state revenue sharing and the half cent sales tax returns um the fy2 24 actuals so far have been about $96,000 less than was budgeted uh the state can be a little slow in remitting some of those to us so there's a chance that a lot of that some of that will be uh uh recouped in the next couple of weeks as the state finally gives us our money uh but it's something that going forward uh the city should look into um fines and forfeitures the only real item of notice there in the general fund is that parking fine Revenue uh was budgeted at 200,000 but will collect close to about 350,000 um that's just um in having a fully staff parking enforcement team however I will caution um our public works department has told me that our entire parking equipment has been White out um so my recommendation going forward to Chuck um will be to kind of look and see um how long and what we want to do with that equipment moving forward if there's an opportunity to move to mobile only parking at this time you know there's a couple of different options there um but in the immediate future I don't think for fy2 considering we're not enforcing parking on the beach this revenue and the parking uh fees Revenue will be significantly less um and then the miscellaneous uh the city received a settlement check for 150,000 for the damage to the city marina in storms a couple of years ago um and then the only other revenue of of note in this category is the interest earnings um in the general fund alone we had budgeted $150,000 uh but the city collected $900,000 um so that's a uh excess earnings of about $750,000 just based on interest earnings and some prudent investing at the right time um that should continue through next year I've locked in um a fair number of treasury bills which I'll get to in the investment section um but that should continue for at least the next 10 months or so uh looking on the expenditure side um there's a little bit of uh you'll see there's a column there for the incumbrances those typically at year end would be zero because we would carry those POs into next year I just simply haven't done that process yet for this year we just did our uh last eight or last check run for FY 24 so now that everything's settled we can move all these uh uh incumbrances to fy2 um the F the uh FY 24 carry forwards have already been executed uh but uh again none of those projects will uh really um be spent until that reprioritization comes back before the commission uh looking at some of the other funds throughout the city uh the penny for pelis fund uh probably needs to have a close eye on it for the next coming years because we um we've asked a lot of this fund over the next five years um FY 24 revenues for the uh actual sales tax came in about $100,000 less but because the interest earnings came in about1 $1,000 more um the revenue is is a wash in this fund um and since it doesn't have a real significant fund balance it's not an operating fund it's purely a capital fund um each year this is you know looking at the forecast of this fund is is very important and kind of drives all the other you know decisions throughout the city um if you know the major projects in this fund if they're reprioritized the funding really needs to be looked at just to make sure that the uh any projects laid out in this uh fund uh can be afforded I will also caution that this fund expires in 2019 I'll have to look at the County ordinance again so the count is a subject to uh the county voters uh re re-upping this uh penny in a couple of years so there are projects most significantly the replacement of our fire engine that is budgeted in this fund um if the the penny is not renewed that fire engine will have to come out of the general fund that's just uh something for three or four years down the road um the building fund did uh fairly well the revenues came in a little bit less than they did for FY 23 but I've mentioned before it's a lot of uh a lot of permit fees are collected up front uh so there's kind of a leading and lagging um issue there between the revenues and the expenses uh the the one thing I will caution in this fund is the temporary waving of the permit fees related to storm recovery um there are still staff and vendor costs associated with this work so effectively the commission isn't waving fees you're really deferring fees um so you're you're deferring fees either to Future permits that are issued um because those permits will have to pay a higher rate um in order to keep the fund balance where it needs to be and cover those expenses or the alternative is they transfer from the general fund to offset those revenues and the first what you're doing is you're asking all future permit payers to subsidize current permit payers in the second scenario you're asking all taxpayers to subsidize permits it's it's entirely up to the city which which option they choose but there is a state statute that governs how much fund balance must be in this fund uh to support you know the enforcement of the Florida build building code um so it's you know entirely within the commission's perview to wave and uh forgive fees but there are Financial impacts to doing so um none of the other uh special Revenue funds are have really any items worth note at the end of the year so moving to the uh Enterprise funds uh the $3 million that was Rec recognizing the general fund and transferred over to the Wastewater fund um was executed by the end of the year um this will ensure and preserve that $3 million for the uh um Master lift station project U this fund also received Grant revenues budgeted in Prior fiscal years for waste pays to the City of St Petersburg for processing um our Wastewater at the we budgeted 3, 37,500 TH or $500 in fy4 and our total spend was 3,374 187 that leaves $883 in that account that's 9999975 was the fifth and final year of the uh 10-year base rate increases um future base rate increases our forecast at 2% growth in the out years um in addition the current pass through adjustment formula seems to be effective to offset the uh historical inflow and infiltration uh cost effects uh the rate structure of the Wastewater fund seems solid for the upcoming few years but should likely have a rate study between FY 29 and 31 just based on um common practices that will carry through for all the Enterprise funds we did rate studies between four and four and three years ago five and three years ago something like that for the different funds so those will be coming up for uh needing re-review in the future um for future expenses in this fund uh the $1.1 million Force main replacement at 116th Avenue and the approximate $6 million for the master lift station project are the largest unknowns with this fund um as those projects get bid if they come in significantly um higher than you know more than budget there are fund balances available in the fund to uh support those in the short term but it may uh affect rates in the out years uh Solid Waste revenues did well in FY 24 also um Services charge for services coming in a little bit more than was budgeted uh that's just um being a little conservative and making sure that we don't do it the other way um the biggest issue in this fund is the uh uh residential garbage trucks being at end of life and commercial trucks are nearly there um the near Round the-clock usage for the past month has made those made that issue even worse um I think we've rented at least two garbage trucks in the city of clear water has been in town to help us augment the normal uh solid waste collection the past couple of weeks uh Capital spending was slightly over budget because the replacement claw truck was a little bit more uh than was anticipated but there's personal services savings uh to offset those overage so uh uh entirely on the expense side um the longer um there is a desire to consider Outsourcing Solid Waste those maintenance costs uh for those trucks will only increase exponentially um almost to the point where if we have trucks that are out of service and we're renting trucks uh those costs will start going through the roof really quickly um that's it's a major caution so whatever the city is desires to do for looking at Solid Waste um time is of the essence um stormw water fund collected about $200,000 Less in customer charges compared to FY 23 but it was slightly more than was budgeted in fy2 for um this is actually a little bit vindicating data because the new rate study that we implemented was um advertised as being Revenue neutral the whole goal of it was to um reshift the burden to um the properties that drive most of the storm water um Services um this fund also looks to have a stable Financial Outlook the one key issue in this one is what the city desires to do uh for the West Causeway whether it's they want to do an enhanced um project us utilizing external grants or just do something um internal and use only City funds uh to rebuild it exactly as it is uh looking at some of the Investments I've already highlighted some of them previously um the one uh issue I did uh mention earlier is we had a uh a $12 million mature um come up a couple of months ago and I split it up into 12 equal million do Investments That mature on a monthly basis um so with our investment uh Partners each month we have an opportunity to uh have access to a million dollars in liquidity or reinvest million dollars in in liquidity and see how much extra interest earnings we can get on them um if the city maintains this this could be a uh uh Financial just nice little nice thing to have going forward in the future being able to have emergency access to million dollars in liquidity it's almost like you have your own little internal commercial paper uh process um let's see um as it stands right now um as of the actually as of September 30th uh there was about $17 million in cash on on hand that's actual liquidity uh the city has a day one access to and we had about another $18 million invested in uh Florida safe and long-term Investments again that uh mature on a regular basis if the city should need them um from another uh big cash flow perspective um this being November the first of the property tax payments are starting to come through um in November of last year I think we collected right about $3 million so just on a cash flow perspective uh November is usually a pretty good month for the city it's actually when I uh tend to throw some stuff into Investments and really uh try to see what we can do to get a little bit of Interest earnings uh as the year goes on uh in addition to that I had provided a um uh kind of an update for the penny for panel's fund uh in anticipation of talking about the treasure BAS project um I don't know if that's necessarily uh required this evening um there's that information in there if the commission has any questions about that um it seems like the the questions the commission may have maybe for uh one-on ones or you know in private sort of things before we come back to the meeting so if there are any questions that are uh in there with that information we are uh happy to answer those and then the uh the final uh she I provided in there was a general fund actuals as of today um so this is kind of showing where um an fy2 how much we spent out of the general fund just to kind of see storm related impacts um as of right now there there's two different breakdowns there's one by the uh spending category so Personnel operating Capital Etc and there's one that's by uh the Departments themselves just to kind of see two different comparisons um as of right now you know effectively if you were to straight line a year we should have used about 8% of our budget and we've used about 10% so that burn rate that extra 2% um a lot there's a it's kind of hard to say that that that is all storm related there are a lot of expenses that we pay first thing in the year invoices for the library for example come in at the very beginning of the year so there's a lot of front loaded costs I guess just gut feeling about half of that is like the normal front loaded cost the other ones are actual expenses that we've already uh encumbered thus far most of those will largely be FEMA reimbursable um and there's a lot of future costs that aren't reflected in our numbers yet but are just estimates based on uh the missions that we've assigned through our state and federal Partners um you know assuming all of those missions are fulfilled exactly as requested there could be a few2 to3 million dollar in storm related um requests a large portion of those should be um reimbursed by FEMA but we are still a little too early um in the recovery process to have a full picture of exactly um the city's uh burden for storm recovery uh with that if the commission has any questions I'd be happy to answer them I have uh several comments the first is I think we're going to have to do this all over again uh I understand there's extenuating circumstances in terms of the uh hurricane and and all the work that's being uh work uh directed toward hurricane recovery efforts but we can't get this report just minutes before the meeting starts uh didn't give us any time to to look through it to to organize our thoughts to to be able to answer questions so and I understand uh Mike November 13th is your last day uh so I understand why we probably had to push it up as quickly as we did but I I I don't think the review we had today wasn't uh is not fair for the commission nor for the public because the public hasn't had an opportunity to look at this either so I'd like to make that point a couple of other points uh you mentioned about uh the waving fees is more like deferring I think I would disagree with you on that because the only fees that we waved were hurricane related fees so the regular permit fees uh should be pretty much uh on schedule so I don't think we're necessarily deferring fees out out in the future that doesn't mean we don't have uh we'll probably have more than we normally have because of all the activity but but waving fees I don't uh see it as as uh deferring them to later uh later times and then the last comment I have is regarding the garbage trucks uh we have asked several months ago to begin a study to decide if we're going to Outsource uh a garbage pickup and as far as I know no progress has been made on that and and at that particular and I understand again the hurricane us off but there was no progress that I've been made aware of about uh about that Outsourcing project so we can't make decisions on purchasing new uh uh m million garbage dollar garbage trucks until we have a have a good look at that Chuck I think that uh goes to and maybe do you have any more of a report for us I I think that uh I think commissioner Dicky said it very well that uh thank you for uh Mike thank you for everything that you've done for this over the years and uh as commissioner de said we understand you're leaving on November 13th we wish you the best I appreciate thank you very much thank you mayor the only other item that I did have is um being that we did remove item i1 from the item of business I would recommend that we take a look at item I2 and H3 because they are also associated with the living Shoreline discussion decision yeah okay can I ask a question about the waving of the fees we all still have the staff requirements and also since we've had the Hurricanes um we've had to have extra staff come in so it does offset some of the costs that as Mike was talking about with we still have the burden of the staff payments to come out so I can see where he's saying where the the offsets there and what you're what I think you're referring to is the additional staff that came in from uh from the county and the state those were missions that were put in through there and so they will be reimbursable through FEMA for those staff Personnel oh okay that's good I wasn't sure if it came out of FEMA or a pocket now that would be there would be a cash flow piece because depending upon the timeliness of the reimbursement from FEMA but there are programs for FEMA that we can request an acceleration to have those U Monies paid back to the city thank you and we are pursuing those go ahead uh question you mentioned that um there were 950 permit applications I believe in the 972 972 let me correct that of which uh only 85 have been issued 772 was it yeah he's correct I yeah my own writing here 772 correct 85 that have been issued or issued and closed so yeah that's correct okay so we have 972 applications 772 my fault okay I got it of which 85 I think that's the correct number that is correct okay so there's a a backlog you are correct okay what seems to be the major problem um in getting these permits processed it would probably I would associate that to a number of items primarily it's the number of staff that we have that are actually processing the permits and taking the permits in it's the same people that are taking the permits in the entire staff plus the augment augmentation that has come in they work two days a week excuse me Tuesdays and Thursdays to work with individual customers to get the permits and have them submitted and then they turn around on the other days Monday Wednesday and Friday to actually process the permits you know and the processing of the permits is is not just a simple you take a look at it and it's good to go you have to do and and I don't know all the steps off the top of my head you know a completeness review you have to make sure you have the correct signatures you have to make sure the payments are made um you have to then figure out if it needs a building a u excuse me a flood plane or a zoning fire and Engineering coordination and check off and from there and then you would go through and then work to issue the permit with the individual so it is primarily a staffing meet and that's why I started the city manager report to say tomorrow we're going to meet with a a very reputable commercial engineering firm to try and augment the staff so we could run two shifts a shift where we could you know if my vision is to take a shift that is doing permit um submission during the day and then the processing into like a swing shift something that would happen before midnight so we could keep that going on a daily basis how many do you think you can process I know it's a all of them on a daily basis I would have to defer that to uh director junan just to see if we bring in these people is that what you're predicating that on that that question or well we the backlog seems to be increasing as osed to decreas it it is not a it probably takes anywhere from 35 to 55 minutes to process an individual permit and that's from going from a a beginning with a completeness review up until as I mentioned the the did certain functions that have to look at it whether it's engineering or flood plane building or zoning depending upon the type of permit that's requested okay so you said it would take about an hour let's say say an hour hour an hour to process okay so some an employee a staff person can do let's just say seven a day is that fair depending upon there's a number of and I'm starting to get out of my realm of understanding so I'd like to ask director young going to come up because yeah part of that you you have to take these permits and actually scan them into a system so that is also part of the step and I don't know if that's included in when we talk about that 35 to 55 minute or an hour that it takes I'm just trying to find out and I think everybody would agree how do we get this processing done faster I think that uh as Chuck has said um we're going to be meeting or he's going to be meeting with his staff with the the folks from the the firm and U they have uh a a relatively large base of employees compared to what we're doing they are much larger they're working a project right now but they're going to be out of that project completely by November 18th and they're starting to already uh bring down the the head count and we're hoping to pick up that head count uh as soon as next week and and so I mean we've we basically took a look and said last Friday when we had the emergency meeting that uh we need to focus on on permits yeah and and that's really what we have done this week uh matter of fact uh one of our residents helped put together together you know this meeting that's going to take place tomorrow and I'll give him some credit officially here and that's Andrew vasy um helped us and uh and it was great and like I said this is a a company that is reputable they have large numbers of employees they have Offices here in multiple cities in state of Florida um they also have uh their one of their top folks uh is semi-retired and uh he had moved Tiara verie and so he's going to be here tomorrow as well so we're trying to wrap it up we're trying to wrap it up as quickly as as we can and like we said the the the cost that's a secondary issue we need to get permits pushed through and out the door and uh and I think that that will be uh next week it hopefully it will be uh a something that we can make a difference in I I think that these folks they're they're very well educated um they also will be folks that we'll be holding on to potentially if the meeting goes well uh and they're holding on to because they are schooled in what they need to say they do this on a regular basis when there are uh the FEMA rules of the 5050 um or 50% Rule and they will be able to walk people through what steps and how are they best will be capable of getting back into their home even if they have an assessment that that looks bad that they these are the things you can do to make it better and they will be uh be able to um to calm people down I think you know our our folks were they're doing a great job staff is but uh to have you know a relatively small staff and now to see you know a thousand permits coming our direction is is kind of scary so we realized we have to have more help we can't do it all on our own thank you mayor well um I'll chime in here uh where have we been for the past month for the last month we have been working on Disaster Recovery Personnel recovery and getting the city back on its feet okay the 100,000 cubic yards of debris that has been collected in the city has been picked up in the last month as I read back a few meetings ago I'd like to read back and say this again September 26th St or excuse me John's past tide chart had a 7.8 foot storm surge we emergency evacuated 32 adults two children and seven pets we had 114 calls for Fire EMS and storm responses on September 27th we had 139 calls holding for Fire EMS and storm responses we had search and rescue teams that came in from Across the Nation we had all of our incidents cleared by an 11: p.m that night we had cut and toss teams that were brought in to take debris out to clear roads fire rescue responded to 165 calls for EMS and storm responses that day transported 22 22 adults and six dogs off of Treasure Island Public Works came in made sure that we had 10 lift stations and two Master pup stations put on bypasser generator power to make sure we didn't have any sanitary system overflows we didn't want any contamination and didn't have any had it yeah we get rude we had 400 4,000 48 total hours that were worked in a twoe period by that staff the average employee did about 119 hours with 39 hours of overtime that week we've put in 106 requests through the state in order to ask for other missions we had Comfort stations set up in multiple locations across the city debris removal teams and incident manage teams requests were put in on the 27th of September we started getting Comfort stations on the 28th of September we set up bus routes to take people into and out of Sunset Beach being that there was between 2 to six feet of sand across the entire area in Sunset Beach we had community help with being able to provide parking for search and rescue teams we had our individuals from Community Development that were responsible for initial damage assessment and after her excuse me after Helen it took them eight days to complete that after Milton it took them eight days to do their damage assessment and it took their entire staff to do that on the 7th of October the state pulled their resources because of hurricane Milton after that on October 9th we had evacuations of adults to shelters adults evacuated to hospitals responses to firing EMS we found 92 residential structures with severe roof damage 55 requests for other resources to help bolster the staff we had 10 grapple trucks that came in with 50 dump trucks and I'm sure that we've seen those dump trucks going up and down the street we had a new comfor station that was moved over to the fire department and police department parking lot we had 173 people that were requested that came down to assist the city to get back on its feet as of October 21st we had about 42,000 C cubic yards of debris removed and I think we're at 97,000 yards today you can see over in the park that we're are taking that final piece of debris out of there so the park can be returned we have ongoing debris removal now we're going to be working on a commercial debris removal and we're doing second and final passes for the residential our pump excuse me our lift stations and our pump stations are still operational three of them are on bypass and generator power because the salt water knocked out the components so we have individuals that are servicing those generators 24 hours a day we're coordinating efforts to sand removal from Sunset Beach Gator dredging has been down there for probably the better part of a month now to work Beach I won't call it renourishment but beach sand replacement screening debris and doing that and they'll be here through next week we began vegetation removal and we have a daily sanitation pickup schedule that's back on City staff went from City Hall to the South Pasadena Church to St Peter excuse me St Pete College Midtown campus individual City Vehicles after that back to South Pasadena church and now in City Hall to operate emergency operation centers and whether it was an emergency Operation Center of two people sitting in a vehicle or 40 people because we had State assets that's what we were doing was Emergency Operations residential damage assessment was completed for Helen and Milton we had a commercial safety assessment completed by the Florida Fire Fire Marshals group our permitting process has been streamed streamlined excuse me and as you saw there's 772 permits that have been submitted almost a thousand customers have come in not everybody's coming in for a permit but they're asking for guidance and we're servicing those people with Helen we had over 1600 major structures that were damaged for Milton we had 15 that were destroyed 188 with minor damage and there's 780 structures that were totally affected that's some of what we've been doing for the last 30 days or 40 days commissioner and I and I don't say that in any way other to than to please have an understanding that staff is doing all they can we have a small limited staff they're working six days a week to get things done to try and process permits there's a number of people who haven't had a day off in over a month but they're not complaining they're trying to work to get the permits processed because right now that's the focus the search and Recovery aspect and the debris cleanup is is on a smaller scale that is being accomplished and the focus is now here um I appreciate all of that and my kudos to you and your staff and all the workers who've knuckled down um to really get this ball moving my question was was not aimed at at that my question was aimed at today tonight we hear that um an engineering firm has been engaged to provide extra assistance and why knowing the backlog that we have of processing permits why did it take till now to reach out and get that done that's my question and and I don't have a simple answer for it we've requested numerous times State missions to come in and augment our staff told we would have you know say 10 to 12 people that were you awarded or you know slated to come in and we would have two show up we're working under a state and County contract where we're competing with 19 other municipalities that are going through this same um same predicament I know that we are farther ahead then of many of our sister and brother communities along the Barrier Islands here in issuing permits there are some some sections in the county that haven't even started issuing permits yet so so where we where where we have been and and I appreciate the question thank you it we were waiting on state missions and when we couldn't get the state last Friday's meeting and and we're taking them up on that because we we can't wait for State missions if they're not going to happen amen and we don't want to wait for State missions you know I can't wait till this when we're going to have a productive meeting tomorrow and figure out a way to make this work and then the state is probably going to go through the roof and we tell them we don't want any of their assets we' s fulfilled well I think everybody recognizes that and the folks here in this room and the rest of the property owners in Treasure Island would like to get back in their homes and an order order to do that they need a permit and so my whole point in doing this is to what is the most expedient way to get everybody the permits that they've applied for and uh a a parallel question to that is why or do we need to have that extra affidavit signed and notorized is there some legal basis for that or is it just something that's a I'll call it a c a for lack of a better term there's a couple of questions there so I'll I'll take the first one if I can don't pass to you no on the second one and director yunan would you be able to speak specifically on what is the most expedient way for an individual to get a permanent process thank you so yes and to answer I would like to answer a question that was asked as well so you have to understand that we have been working with the public for 2 and A2 weeks we've been back in this building we finished damage assessment after we came back here and under our EOC mandate that is our first priority so we until we finish initial damage assessment which is the survey of every structure on the island every residential structure we are not mandated to be here doing permitting so we opened for permitting two and a half weeks ago we have seen 950 people at least most people don't even sign in so way more than that but 950 that signed in um we're answering questions by email we're answering voluminous questions every day to try to get people on a path to get a permit so I just wanted to clarify that we really began processing permits yesterday when was the first day that we've been closed to the public so that we could work other than Saturdays so until takes longer for staff to do that because it's a financial calculation we have to compare cost and so that is what we are doing so these permits take a long time to review with the exception of interior damage because we have created an internal policy to be able to issue those permits and capture those cost on the rebuild if they're only interior Demolition and we've notified everyone that has one of those permits of their options to do that so okay so we are have literally had two days to review permits two complete days well well half of which we're we're open to the public 9 to three but our office there are still people in line at our office at 5 at 4:30 every day when we're supposedly closed so that's the time that staff has to work is when we're not with the public everything you said Katherine is appreciated believe me and you guys are working as you said also I don't think this was clear there were are eight additional people that we've been training they came in a week and a half ago so they've been working behind the scenes and in the lobby to help people as well so we do have eight people but they have to be trained they can't they don't come fully formed and able to understand our local regulations our Florida building code they're from out of state you know there's all kinds of learning curve for people that come in the door so and none of us excuse me none of us have been in your shoes either so right I mean there and the you will see these numbers accelerate we just yesterday was literally the first week day that we've been closed to the public so since we got back in the building two and a half weeks ago so well what you said earlier is that it will go faster now that we're closed to the public Monday Wednesday and Friday we'll go much faster so if that helps I'm certain that I can make that statement it was just a eye Awakening my last comment eye Awakening to hear you say that it was only yesterday that you started processing permits no we started processing them on Tuesday we were told to process them starting Friday oh that's so but we are open what I'm saying is we are open to the public all day every day and we can't process permits while we're intaking permits because we're with people in our office that we're helping good point that that's not part of the I just can't multiply the people right C Katherine let me me jump in here I we do know your staff normally I guess to process roughly 30 30 permits a week uh based on the math based on the math so so you did 85 in in the past couple of days so we know we know we got you stretched and nobody's being critical of of the work you and your staff are doing in terms of uh how many permits you're able to put out what we're trying to do what I think the commission wants to do is make sure we get you all the resources you need to get caught up as quickly as possible so so please don't take this as criticism because that is not we know you guys are working as hard as you can I think the idea to close on Monday Wednesday and Fridays was an excellent idea otherwise you'll be waiting on we just keep getting more and more exactly so I I I I agree with that approach so again I think the commission we just want to know uh other than the the suggestion that we uh have already heard uh that came through Mr Vass what else can we do to give you the resources to do these as quickly as you need thank you okay did one of you have a question for the attorney no the affidavit question you just said is it necessary is the affidavit yeah absolutely necessary yeah so there is a FEMA affidavit that's required with permits that is necessary uh the second affidavit the one I believe for discussing now was drafted due to be uh the enhanced risk and this is what provides for indemnification for the city um it's a matter of whether the city would accept potential risk or not uh Jen has contacted the nfip coordinator and the state flood plane manager we indicated without or with going through this process in general could expose the city to liability and losing cover under nfip well my my concern is our normal per permitting process requires us to go through the same routines that we're going through for this extra affidavit so why the duplicity to protect the city from the enhanced risk it has a stronger indemnification provision to have us pay for I can address the difference two affidavit one affidavit says this is the total work on this permit that's the standard affidavit for substantial Improvement for substantial damage you have to have all the work to bring the building back to pre-storm condition and that's one of the things we're struggling with because when we were still in the EOC people were putting in permits and um so we got not a lot maybe 50 60 permits those first few days of the storm because most people were not able to put in permits but people off Island were and so some people have five or six permits that have to be aggregated for a financial look too so substantial damage is very very different situation than substantial Improvement substantial Improvement is voluntary you're doing this you want to do your kitchen your bathroom what that's a owner Choice substantial damage the big difference is you have to do all the improvements to bring your structure back to pre-storm condition in one we have to have a financial package that shows that the big difference with the new um hold harmless agreement it's holding the city harmless from any impacts that the homeowner has from proceeding without having the whole package so that's really what that's about it's a hold harmless agreement that holds the city harmless so I think that's the big difference that people please people are hold harmless is a different thing than a affidavit saying these are all the cost those are they're for completely different purposes thank you Katherine city manager anything else may the only thing I would go back to is um in reference to item i1 that was removed would just go back and recommend that we remove I2 and H3 also I2 would be the executing of the grant with Florida the EP having to do with um to fund an ada8 kayak and paddle board launch for Treasure Bay and under consent agenda H3 it would have been a third amendment to a contract for a Tampa Bay Estuary program having to do with the living Shoreline so with commissioner minning recommending and the commission approving taking i1 I would recommend recommend I2 and H3 also be removed I think that uh makes sense it does I agree okay I'm not sure that I understand why you would want to delete the agreement with Tampa Bay Estuary program though only because it's It's associated with the with the discussion that will be ensuing on the project and or what what the project looks like in the future if we go and execute it and then we don't to the project then okay but it's on the consent agenda so there it is yeah correct so there's generally not much to discussing on a consent agenda no but I I do think it's a part of the package of the Treasure Bay improvements correct it is part of the Treasure Bay Improvement package I just don't want it left up where it seems something was skipped over that needs to be included for the next discussion having to do with Treasure Bay that concludes my report okay so let's go ahead and move on to we are going to do the uh I'm going to do it a little strange I'm going to do the approval of the minutes can we uh have that taken care of do I need to make we need motion please I was waiting for that certainly I move to approve the minutes of the commission special meeting held on June 20th 2024 as written second all right we have a motion and a second do we have any uh public discussion all right hearing none do we have any changes or additions no I think they look good thank you okay say clerk could we please have the uh roll call vice mayor Dicky hi commissioner Toth hi commissioner Min hi mayor doctor hi all right let's move to uh public comments and uh I'm going to guess that we can elimin minate the uh did we remove all those we removed this one yeah but we still got one and two yes but I'm not uh I'm not at the consent agenda yet okay that would come a little bit longer a little bit later in the uh in the in the process okay so I'm I'm going to go very quickly here oh I'm sorry right and uh and do the non-agenda items first so um I'm don't know because these are in any special order but Buzzy Barnett thank you mayor and uh I appreciate everything that everybody's doing the city I know it's a nothing of us expected I've been coming down here for 60 years we've had a home here for since the 70s and nobody expected us to be in this position we're in you know my wife's grandmother said little powder little paint make you something you're you ain't but you know this city needs a whole lot of Powder and Paint right now and thank you for doing the Christmas decorations I know I'm putting mine up I may not have sheetrocked but I w't put my Christmas decorations up but anyway you know I just happened to stumble in here you know Monday morning I walked in and that's when they hit me with this after David I didn't know anything about it till I walked up to Lobby I was I came just check on my permit and she goes have you filled out the latest after you know after David I said no I didn't know there was another one so I filled it out they notorized it I went in the back and the ladies really nice back there and they said yeah we'll add this to your jacket I said yes you know all I need is two feet of sheet rocket that's all I need and I said do you know when I'll get the permit and they said oh no we have no idea it could be weeks and the problem is is communication I think we've got to communicate better to the public I own my own business for 40 years I used to tell my salespeople you take care of the customers and will all be successful I think the city and the staff and everybody else needs to understand we the people are the customers and we've got to get these businesses back we got to get these people in our houses I'm in my house even though it's not you know it won't take me a week to get back like I was but I got to get shrock I can't do anything without sheetrock my house is not 10% damaged on FEMA but it it may be Christmas we already canceled the kids you know comeing for Thanksgiving I said there's no way I'll have sheetrock by Thanksgiving but we've got to and and so happy that that we've got somebody that stepped up to help the city we've got to get a team in here and get these permits processed and take care of We the People the customers and I want yall know we do appreciate what everybody's doing thank you thank you Kim Matthews yes and here over the Applause um Kim Matthew District Two um oh I'm sorry District three District three um I wanted to just revisit the discussion that went on last week about um our now mayor doctor and the term that he would fill and the confusion that that surround founded um what the documents say the rules of procedure should be um so I kind of went back and thought about back in December of 2023 when commissioner Partridge stepped down um that left a vacancy at the board meeting on January 8th um which I was hoping that um Jennifer Cowen would be in attendance tonight but there was discussion at that meeting about the vice mayor position and um among the commission other than mayor uh commissioner Partridge discussion was had about selecting one of the the other Commissioners to serve as um kind of the interim vice mayor and at that discussion it was mentioned that that would just be um an interim until the next election which is kind of the discussion we heard last time and then they were looking to fill the District 3 um position and that that appoint that appointment for that individual would again be just until the next next election however when um mayor Payne at at the time um called for candidates anyone that might be interested in filling that commission position that was open for District 3 um um he said that that person would finish the term of that uh former commissioner and that they would stay in until 2025 that's how we so luckily got commissioner minning on our team I listened to that meeting very carefully because the camera panned around our attorney Jennifer Cowan was there never pulled up the ordinance the charter never mentioned that no that that appointment would be um inim only she said it's for the length until that person's um seat would be up for for uh grabs again we get an election in March 19th that's how we ended up with commissioner dicki um but again no one from District District 2 was named um to be interim and that seat did not go up for um taxpayer vote in the March election I'm concerned about having our current mayor um only serve out until March because as we talked about last time the district one District Two District three and then the mayor position would all be on the ballot I think that a precedence has been set um on what was done to have commissioner minning um fill in for that district and I would like to see that we follow that precedent keep mayor doctor in his seat to fill out um former mayor Payne's position um and I think having that stability to our commission is going to make the commission stronger I I don't think anybody envisions the possibility of four new commission members sitting up here and trying to catch up to speed I think it's important for the continuity of the work that the commission is trying to do and I think it's important for the residents to see that and have that continuity as well thank you thank you Stuart Sim hello everyone I get up here and speak and honestly wonder if everybody understands me but I'm going to talk anyway um couple of things I want to talk about the uh special damage assessments can show of hands everybody that's had one of those done on the property so far okay yeah in the uh 53 seconds that they spent on my property uh when I was out of state on Friday um they made their special damage assessment um two guys walked up to the door this is including walking up my driveway and back um they walked up to the front door um rang the doorbell I was unfortunately out of state but I've got a very good camera system that I like to switch on and leave on all the time um they made a comment to each other uh measured the distance between my driveway and my porch step took one photograph and left so I'm presuming I'm perfect and I'll be I'll be good to go within seconds as uh being a private and commercial building inspector it normally texts me e the demo permits that you know most of us may or may not have uh but if it says demo permit on the top it should be rubber stamped and issued straight away um if it's minor repairs like doors base boards and dryw um if a licensed contract is completing those repairs and there's a the feem letter attached from the appraisers website again I don't know why we're sitting on those I can't see that that would take an hour more like 5 to seven minutes and rubber stamp that and get those people going I understand if we've got a house off its foundation or we've had you know six seven feet of water and there's Windows blown in and the roof's gone I completely understand um but those can be viewed and organized in my opinion you know very very quickly um and I'm sure the firm that comes in is going to be able to see that and organize those and process them a lot faster I hope that that's that's what would happen going forward um wasn't going to talk about this but Kim just brought it up um we've all read the section that was discussed regarding uh term limits on Commissioners and and yor um I feel what you were related was was our attorney's interpretation of that documentation um and let's not forget commissioner M at the end of the day if you want to change that and you want to change the way your terms are presented and the way you're reelected you have the power to do that so you know don't let somebody tell you something else you can you can do what you want to do so um thank you for listening and I appreciate all your time thank you thank you Sarah Pennington all right so there's been a lot of talk about how to expedite the permit process tonight and actually for weeks and what I have right here in my hand is a screenshot directly from the Treasure Island website that says that permits are not required for storm damaged drywall and baseboard removal so and I can if anybody wants to confirm it anybody watching at home or here in the audience I can tell you exactly how to get there you just go to my treasure island.org you click the menu I want to click apply for a building permit there's a submenu that says building you click it and then there's an area that says when do I need a permit when you scroll down there are examples of when permits are not required and the very last item says removing storm damaged drywall and baseboards the issue is three things with this for me one is just the basic inaccuracy and transparency from our city two all the wasted time processing demo permits that according to our City's website are not even required this only adds more delays to when residents can start getting permits that they actually need the ones to repair their homes three we're talking about a 50% FEMA rule where you take off $1 to make sure that you're under the 50% value of your structure these demo permits they're adding unnecessary dollars onto a permit total for the 50% I know there are people that have paid a lot of money to have their homes demoed and this should not be coming off of their 50% total I would hate thank you I would hate to find out that someone demolished their home because they were over the 50% Rule and that could have been due to the amount of money on a demo permit that wasn't even required so someone needs to look into the code and find out are they required by some sort of code or is this just an assumption that has taken a life of its own and now everyone is just going along with it so I would like an answer as to why we are being required to get permits for something the city itself on the website says that we don't need who can answer that for me we won't we don't answer questions during this period but uh we can take that uh when we have our uh commissioner reports okay great because I think it does need to be looked into especially for people like I said if that's counting towards someone's 50% value and we don't technically need it according to our own website why are we doing that it doesn't make sense and it's slowing down the permit process since I have a couple minutes left my next question is since we changed to option two last Friday why are we even discussing substantial damage assessments when they are not required for option two this new affidavit seems to connect the substantial damage assessment with our 50% threshold which again we do not need those for option two it is clearly stated in the FEMA guide book and by a FEMA representative who I have on video saying that it is not required for option two so I'm still not clear on why we are even having these assessments and and what's happening with that so I would love for that to be looked into as well thanks thank you Heidi hork hi everybody horac 123 88th Avenue Treasure Island Sunset Beach where we're still digging out um I listened very closely to the meeting the emergency meeting you had uh I guess it was Thursday or Friday I am really really upset with the tone that I'm hearing coming across Airwaves from this chamber I'm fully supporting staff they are in a horrible situation the city commission certainly and possibly the city manager who I've never even met uh should at some point look into a failure of leadership early on which many people have referenced tonight and even bigger a failure of public relations because after being on the planning board for almost a total of 11 years and sitting in that commission seat for two years I can tell you the amount of inaccurate information that is coming from everywhere I mean I hear people say things that I know are not right but I don't hear them getting corrected in a way that's respectful because they're trying to figure out what to do the delay in issuing permits is clearly why you have such frustration in this room clearly and the ideas for how to speed that along are terrific they're terrific but they're too late right I mean having a separate pering person for just you know your small 20% drywall whatever just just that alone would have been great having uh one of the state missions come back so you had extra people that would have been great we clearly did not have enough contingency planning here and that goes back a long way right when disasters happen you're supposed to put your contingency plans in place why wasn't permitting part of that you know that it's I can understand the frustration um you know I had a structure substantially damaged and I'm not going to stand here and give the answers to all the Mis information that's been floating around but I think we have a real public relations failure here and I think that's what a big time going on I'm upset with hearing the booing laughing clapping personal insults personal vendettas I know this is not supposed to be funny but when I saw the words Stacy next scrawled in red paint on a pile of debris outside City Hall I thought it was the next storm that was coming I thought the next storm was going to be named Stacy I I feel like I'm in the city where I have to join the Crips or the Bloods we cannot have Mom rule here we have to be respectful the positions you you all have are volunteer jobs I can't wait to see all these people volunteer for these jobs thank goodness for the guy who came in to help us with this permitting um problem we have I have always felt that we have not relied on the expertise of the residents to help us through some of these tough times so going forward what I'd like to see and is one yes a review an accountability review within the city from the city manager it's the city manager's job to handle his staff not the Public's and if the city manager agrees with the city commission that there should be accountability and some kind of review that's up to him and if you don't like what he does then you fire him right I'll I'll complete my comments here there's room here for Learning and there's an opportunity to harness the expertise that we have in the retirees here in our city and in this room they could have been called in to help a long time ago and we wouldn't have had to have any staff to do it the commission could have called for help in certain areas and they would have lined up to help we love this city we are a community we have to respect each other we have to help each other and we have to realize when we've fallen down and we have to get up and do it better next time hopefully with the respect and consideration that's always been here in the city staff retention has been a Hallmark of why we're a great City and we're about to lose that all of it need to provide your staff what is important for them to do their job and if they're getting costed and attacked every day they can't do their job and they can't issue the permits thank you Heidi would you wrap it up you very much for letting me um make my comments and letting me go over a few seconds thank you Mark Hoy good evening uh Mark hoey District 3 104th Avenue so uh just a quick comment commissioner minning I fully agree with your desire to fully understand what's going on with the living Shoreline project that has been in gestation for years been through many mations and changes and still looks like it's going to be a shortfall of funding of a half a million dollars or more so you're you're right to do that U what I wanted to talk about is uh permitting imagine that uh last week of course attending the meeting here certainly got a lot of good information from Katherine during her 10-minute kind of Q&A that she did watched it several times to make sure we gleaned what we could and along with some additional board members from our condominium community we came here Monday morning first thing with a list of questions that are specific to Condominiums and they are different they're treated different than the single family homes had that had some backup had forms and we started through the people who were taking questions from the city and they couldn't answer them they couldn't answer them you know it was wait if you want to fill out a form that's great but if you're asking questions about the process H so we asked for an audience with Katherine and I knew that was a pipe dream she's very busy it's got a lot of things going on but uh what we did was pass the packet we brought with the questions along uh to her through one of the staff on Monday uh with the hopes that we'd either get a call back or possibly schedule an appointment at her first availability uh to to go through these and answer it you know the the method to the madness was instead of 10 residents coming down here trying to figure this out our board could help it and take that message back and work with them and keep them off the door here uh I hadn't gotten an answer yet I followed up with an email on Wednesday attached the questioner again and as of this evening have not had an answer now I don't know if that's enough time but I'm just saying I think there's a means to if we had some form of checklist that residents of condos could go through to know the steps that are unique to them what they can and can't do we'd keep the people out of here that are creating part of the backlog in getting permits processed so something to think about thank you thank you very much Robert baso hi evening uh Robert baso proud member of district one um a lot of my comments have already been been addressed but I I I do want to say that as a you know 35 year um government worker military and civilian I I respect government I respect the workers nobody here is being personal we're certainly not a mob I mean as somebody said uh it's civil discourse it's civil action and I respect everybody here but we're doing our job and I think to be to say that perhaps we didn't have the the right 9911 mentality after the St I think is correct uh we should have been ready to go a week later with augmentation staff um triaging permits um having that mentality now commissioner meing I splited job tonight if I was if I was worked for you and I was a city manager and you asked me why we have this backlog why are we in s this situation as a military man as a government worker knowing that it's five weeks later and we have a huge backlog my answer to you would be not 10 minutes of words but to say no excuse sir no excuse that's not criticizing a person individually it's about leadership it's having a plan this is our 911 should have been gone in day one now one of the speakers talked about misinformation coming from from the people I've not seen that I have seen some misinformation put out by by by staff for instance somebody a director saying that a substantial damage assessments are mandated before a permitting we now know for sure discussing with femur at their Town Halls that that's not true there's a lot of things that are not true permits need to be triaged is there a triage process I don't know but if it's Dy high wall and electrical out the door in 2 minutes we should rack and stack them of that her of a triage process for for uh um for permits we need to get permits out the door speaking of of substantial damage assessments I spoke last week about it really should be substantial um uh structural damage assessments we understand walls down trusses uh walls off the houses off the foundation that's structural uh that's structural damage not substantial damage most of I think most of the almost thousand permits probably are fairly are fairly minor drywall and electrical if we had a triage process out the door if we had a good plan a disaster plan by week two augmented staff uh double shifts just like you after 911 in the mil we got things done and I don't think we have the mentality here this is our 911 let's let's get the pro we at five we we should have double double shifts already again I'm not criticizing the worker here who's already working 50 hours a week I respect and love them but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have two or three shifts how about a weekend there's mom and pops out there who are living with their sons I love my son don't want to live with him okay this is our 911 it is your time to shine let's be better than this let's streamline let's get a process going this is these are assessments how do you deal with structural substantial damage assessment from the street I'm how do you come up with a good number to compare to a market value of a house how do you do that quick C story I got a call that the inspect the incestors outside of my house and my neighbor said he had zero water in the house and this and P the assessor said you I think it looks a little high okay the next day I saw an assessor and I and they were actually in a in a in a in in a car down the street I said hey guys what you doing hey can I get you a cup of coffee by the way my house is over there I'd like you to come in the house one guy said sure guy said can't do it because your house has already been assessed it's blacked out on my iPod iPad I said what does it say can't tell you it's a secret it's some sort of a you know algorithm come into my house I'll get you a cup of coffee no so it's so his iPad is blacked my address is blacked out does it say no water in the house I have no idea but I'm waiting I'd like to know I hate to get something that says I have water in the house and I have to come down and get get uh somebody else come out there come to my house come in my house how do you do substantial damage without going into the house this r91 let's get the work triple shifts thank you for your service thank you Robert not Shing the last name here but Dominic SEI good evening good evening everybody well just like Robert said basically most of my questions have been answered for me I applied for a permit on October 21st it's for my mom's house I'm I also have a resident I'm in Robert shoes also I had zero water in my house I was blessed but I have a sister that's out of her house because of severe damage to drywall I have my mom's house who is losing her Revenue because of severe damage to drywall and and this is again Robert hit on it before drywall and electrical outlets so I did get a contract I applied for a permit on October 21st so now the past seven days I've come back just about every day to check on my permit the answer I got it's in review all the time in review so today I got a little bit more pushy well how much how much of it has been reviewed what step in the review process are they at they had no answer for that I can't tell you well who has seen it who's reviewed it has anybody in this office actually reviewed it and if it's been in review for seven days and we have 900 permits to go through and each one takes seven days to review I don't think we're going to get anywhere and it seems to be the theme tonight Robert just hit on it this is your your chance to shine separate these permits into the ones that actually you need that assessment done on and the ones that are not drywall no you don't need an assessment to put up dryw you don't need anybody to go into anybody's house for that you don't need an assessment to put in electrical outlets this is 90% of the damages that the single homes have suffered it's really getting to be a bit you're get to the point where you're pushing people to just go and do the work without going through the step I went through all the step but again October 21st is when I file my permit it's November 7th I think that's more than a reasonable time for a permit to have been even if you did a full assessment it should have been back to me already I've already lost one contractor because he's not waiting around to perform work I'm about to lose another one and everybody I call now to try and get back up they don't want to come to Treasure Island to even do work so we are making the problem even worse again just get these permits out the door if any of us here could help stamp a permit let's I mean like the other lady said we'll volunteer to do it we'll come in here and stamp a permit these assessments are not necessary for dry wall and electric that's it thank you thank you Andrew vasy good evening Andrew vasy Isis of Palms um commissioner minning thanks for everything um I think that the permit issue is a it's not a staff issue it's a failure of policy at the director level and it goes back to the self- selection of option one early on after the storm and that led to the belief of you know FEMA assessments and all the stuff we've gotten into we got to Last Friday we we daylight at option two and we're moving in option two and then Along Comes what I want to speak about tonight which is which is this second affidavit um uh commissioner Toth commissioner dicki you were right to ask about how how do we inform the residents of what their risk is as they go forward under option two without this you know massive FEMA tangle that we're in so you asked the right question the problem is you got the wrong answer answer from your City attorney what you got is and the reason you got the wrong answer is you you already have affidavits that are part of your permitting process if I file a permit with a contractor it has an affidavit in in it if I decide to do the work on my own then I sign the owner Builder affidavit and I'm and you're covered that way so um the action is required by this commission and this new affidavit needss to be cancelled this is not a discussion that needs to go on for another day or a week because you holding up permits unless people sign this affidavit and the reason this affidavit is horrible is that it asked for indemnification of the city from the residents and that is the huge difference between this new affidavit and what's out there and and um indentification is something that as I've read contract over 30 years I would read the identification Clause my eyes glass over I start drooling on myself it's super boring stuff except the first time it hits you so as a resident I have to I'm being held hostage on my permit so I sign an identification recommended to you by an outside Law Firm okay and on the identification if staff does something wrong if there's a math error on the permit and FEMA moves on the city under this new new affidavit indentification I as the resident now pay the legal fees for the city to protect you against your lawsuit against FEMA absolutely unacceptable it's an overreach by the City attorney and it requires action by this commission to cancel that affidavit cancel that requirement and allow permits to go forward without such an onerous uh responsibility on the homeowners and the residents can't say it any clear what makes it worse is that the agreement that this Law Firm has with this Commission on another engagement allows this Law Firm to raise its hourly rate $100 an hour per position for their shareholder for their Associates and for their paral leals so that on top of indemnifying them and having to pay their bills while they defend you I got to go get my own lawyer then I got to pay them a higher rate than you pay them and and it's a great business decision if you can get it but this is not what we need so the option two is done the permits are held up I participated as you mentioned before to try to get this done the triage is a great idea we're going to we should be doing red light yellow light green light red light's over 50,000 yellow is close to the 50 green is go triage the permits get them moving so I hope tomorrow goes well but th this commission needs to bury this this second affidavit all we hear is from the city attorney if okay if my aunt had a beard she'd be my uncle okay could I we talked about this last time we could have this meeting on the moon might okay they never come with any empirical data they you when if you're going to talk about risk management then give me the data that comes with it do your work do your job bring to you the decision makers information that you can use to say we might get kicked out of the flood program to say if we do if there's a FEMA action then we could get penalized sounds like a scare tactic where is the data that comes with it you all are charged with making decisions they can do all the risk manage managing they want they're lawyers I don't know if anybody's ever worked with a lawyer who's solve the problem they're great at pointing out every other possible problem that could ever come but in the end I as their client I make the decision on what to do when I hire a lawyer and the same responsibility is with you tonight and so it's not simply a matter of well we need to take it back we need to discuss it we need to do that it's an indemnification we should not be paying anybody's legal fees and you as Commissioners should make a decision and cancel that affidavit you're covered by two different affidavits already thank you very much thank you not sure who what the last name is but Paul kiry Kirby Kirby thank you that's a tough act to follow and the triage actually is I think one of the the biggest key elements in all this and um but I always like to start these meetings off to uh kind of remind people that I live over here right across the street from Publix uh we had the fifth and sixth Cottage ever put on the island I used to say 1925 went up to Clear Water a couple months ago looked it up I was wrong it was December 31st of 1924 so we're in the year of celebrating our 100th anniversary I'm third generation my two kids are fourth generation and in 8 Days the fifth generation I pray to God is here in good health um again triage is is is one of the big parts and this might just be another part of the story it's true that you guys really are working hard to do things right you really are but as part of triage it really asks the question are are you doing the right things go online and read about uh putting in replacing your fence I took permits out had my fences built back whenever and guess what uh the Hurricanes had a different idea about how those fence fences should be and I've got an intertwining of a couple of posts down I've got the panels blown and the permit process says I hate to Hur anybody's feeling it says I can replace the panels by myself no no no permit needed but if if I put a post in I need a permit if that's not the beginning of tree triage what he said the the red light or green light what it I don't know what that is it's it's it's really kind of a a truly your time and efforts can be spent better and that's really where your efforts want to be you want to eliminate uh some of these distractions and in terms of um other things to look at uh the city manager talked about uh Dukes coming out to uh disconnect the city hall power good luck on that Duke's been to my house twice to disconnect my power and my house is not condemned I actually built the house as a fortress 150 mph wind rating 32 foam poles 40 feet long driven into the ground to support Foundation blowout walls for the new wind mitigation and I learned later that the floor to your U garage goes away too okay those are all the things in my house several of you who know me and know my house it's bulletproof okay it's just bulletproof God bless us we've been there that long but by the way the old Cottages were there when they were the fifth and sixth Cottages when they got torn down oh I don't know how they lasted all those hurricanes but Duke is now out trying to disconnect my power and when the uh workers come out they're your meter is 15 ft in the air above the ground which is 7 and 1/2 ft over sea level okay it's actually 18 feet never got close I did get the first time ever I got 20 some inches of water in the floor okay I stupidly left a couple tools on the floor and I lost them but I there's no damage in fact I've decided I'm going to move everything up the necessary distance and I did something else unusual but I put a garage door on the the beach side I'm going to open up all the garage doors and let the water roll through so I feel bad about what some of you guys are facing but I also would feel a lot better if we could simplify the whole process that's what I really would like to see happen and triage is is the right answer you got to make some decisions now to move this ahead and get the kind of you know results that you need and I hope that uh Duke doesn't come to your house disconnect your house it's in perfect working condition and I also have a generator I'm kind of wonder wondering if they disconnect my power of my generator B there's a third problem thank you thank you garyo sorry I got one I got but Duke came out not once but twice okay and my wife spent uh 45 minutes on the phone trying to convince Duke uh that you know you should take us off your work list because the work is listed as incomplete they still want to come out and and disconnect our meters okay that's going to be fun when that happens and then today we had unannounced people at 8: a.m. come to our house and never bother to ring the doorbell and they're running around and taking pictures and I go you know what's going on they said well we're you know we're checking your house that I said well you ought at least ring on the door doorbell and let us know where they're living the house is occupied it's a little embarrassing how well the Fortress does on the beach boy knock on wood that we don't have to face anything else but there there's an ongoing just absolute distraction from doing our jobs with these other kinds of things uh the permits for for fences is the best example so I'll leave you with that thank you Gary Gary penano Paradise Island District 3 uh I have to refer back to Chuck's report on talking about the status of the storm clean up we did have intrusion of raw sewage in Paradise Island so the report is wrong there with raw storage out on the streets on the lawn it was there okay yeah so you need to correct the report because that's not right F would you happen to know the day for that sir right after right after hel next day the next day thank you I'll I'll check that the next day okay how can that happen then what what failed that that sewage backed up on those pumps and why did we get that I need to know that I'd like to have an answer back on that secondly we keep kicking this pump station down the street when are we going to get the thn thing fixed what's the what's the long pole critical path keeping this thing from going and then I hear some other pump stations are in danger you were you were the one reported on it the financial guy here so you mentioned some of the pump stations are running by generators right I think I think you're talking to the commission if if you could refer the question to them I'll refer to the commiss then need to understand what's going with the pumps why we keep kicking a pump down the street when are we going to get it what's the critical path for getting it up on line and now we have trouble with other pumps as well I think we got a big pump problem we need to know it came from the financial review thank you thank you Chris Clark Chris Clark thanks again for your time um and I just like everyone else want to thank everyone for everything that they're attempting to do and putting hours of worked into um I just have some questions about the permitting process like everyone else because I got conflicting information today from City staff so I wanted to try to to get to that but before I do that I just want to say you know commissioner minning your question to me was awesome as to why is it taking us 32 days to decide to get outside help on these permits but beyond that what's incredibly concerning and scaring to me and he had to leave for his wife's birthday but if Andy had not brought this up and done it I don't believe that we would even be doing it today or talking about it so that is incredibly concerning to me um so thank God for Andy I wanted to give him a round of applause but he had to leave um so again around the the permitting process um I just want to look into my own individual situation because that's the only thing I can really talk to but um I saw the mobile unit I don't know what you call it code enforcement or I thought it was permitting they were doing mobile permitting at one point drive by the house today so I went out and talked to them and I said you know I've already turned in my permit can I find out what's going on with it and they said to me well have you have you filled out the new affidavit you need to do that it will make your you know your permit go faster and like Andy I read the the a David and I'm like I'm never going to sign this why would I sign something that says if you make a mistake calculating something on it I have to pay for it and get an attorney and do all that that makes no sense and to me that wasn't the spirit of what Arden and and commissioner to were were trying to do but my issue is this I have a home that um you know my contractor uh his bid we turned in all the paperwork last Tuesday um um his bid was less than 50% of my 50% to fix my home I had the inspectors come in that same day last Tuesday I let them in the house they were nice they asked me all these questions they measured my line they said you're going to be 25% damaged I said well I have a second floor he goes oh you do I said yeah there's the stairs right there we're living up there oh then you're 10% damage and I said well I also have a third floor he said no you don't he said yeah I said come over see those spir staircase I got a little Crow's Nest up there oh third floor you're 5% damaged so I've turned in I've turned in my permit from my contractor less than 50% of 50% I've turn they've now done the inspection and it is uh they said I was 5% damaged so today when I asked the question you know they made it sound like I have to fill out this affidavit in order to ever get a permit so that's the question I have is that true now when I called her back today she told me this she said okay well no this is what's going to happen is if we do we look at your what Your contractor said and we and we we acknowledge that you're less than 50% we'll give you a permit if you sign the affidavit if not you have to wait for the um in for the uh the substantial damage inspection so all we're doing like Andy again said a couple week ago we're just we're just disguising everything as option two it's really option one you have to wait for the thing but I was actually told today that really I'm not going to ever get a permit if I don't sign the affidavit and I'm not going to do that so I guess I I need an answer to that is am I can you get a permit without signing the affidavit um and because I'm not going to do that um and you know we heard people talk about I love the Christmas decorations going up but you know unfortunately I can't have my family to come in town to see him cuz my house won't be ready it could be if I could start working on it tomorrow it's all ready to go but I can't and and I just beg to differ with one thing um that the city manager said is that we're ahead of every everyone else on permits I know people in Clear Water I know people in madira Beach I know people in St beach beach and they all have drywall up in their homes so we we got it like we talked about communication communicating actually better because now tonight I don't know if I can get a permit without signing the affidavit or if I have to if I don't want to sign the AFF affidavit then I have to wait for the substantial damage inspection the problem is my inspection was done early last week and so was my permit turned in so the time that it's taking just seems seems to be way too long so thank you thank you Chris mararo everyone um I just I'm my husband and I we work like 10 hour days and um I did not know that there's an affidavit uh I did get the permit number on October 25th so what I'm trying to say is that we need communication because some of us we can't go to the City Hall every day to check up on our permits um so I want to know what am I missing am I missing something because it seems like everyone is saying that there's a new paperwork now that I need to I need to sign and also uh we do have contractors already Lin up but um they can't work uh we live on a second floor on our second floor we have no kitchen we have no washer and dryer we have no dishwasher there's only two bedrooms in our second floor so we work 10hour days and then we come home and clean up our house and try to live uh better you know every day but we do have we're ready to have our contractors come in but we have no permits you know and we just need communication from you all because you know we live here we we love our our community and we don't want to move but we're thinking of moving now or you know doing something so we just need um our permits right now thank you thank you Ronald good evening mayor doctor Commissioners city manager my name is Ronald diazi and uh I'd like to make a few comments tonight basically uh if this is not the venue for it uh please advise me and I'll stop if you tell me so uh the first comment I would like to make is the city manager could only report what he is being told now I don't know where he got his information from about the city doing such a great job cleaning up air and responding to this horrific storm I have a house in Treasure Island in Sunset Beach and I also have a home Isa poms and I could absolutely tell you from observation the rate the city was going we would be here for the next 20 years because they were doing absolutely nothing okay so I don't know where the city manager gets his information from and is patting himself on the back when I lived through this storm I witnessed what was going on and it was nowhere near what he just reported this evening secondly I would like to bring up uh the fact that um a woman came up here and asked the city manager or City attorney whatever what or you people she has a written document that states what she could do I don't remember the exact details but she's still here why can't she get an answer to her question tonight that and she has documentation that shows what she's showing you people is true uh third I would like to uh bring up uh a while ago a woman at one of the prior meetings within the past couple of weeks brought up that she favored our Representatives being voted into office by the people now M doctor I think you're doing an excellent job okay I have no problem with what you're doing but you were not elected to that office uh I you have a petition on your desk that I gave the city clerk to give to you to read before my coming up that we are going to start a process to change the city Charter with that we want a strong mayor representing us not a city manager we want an elected official from the city that lives here that has skin in the game okay I've been trying to do this for I don't know how long I've been getting different answers from the city manager they tell me that it's the state that I have to go to the state tells me no we could vote as Citizens to have a strong miror which would be accountable to the people we have no accountability with our government right now none whatsoever They Kick the Can down the road every time you ask them a question they kick it down the road well we'll check into that they never give you a straight answer the same way her question was not answered tonight why she's got it right in writing so my thing is is how do we go about right now changing our form government okay I would like to have the mayor elected by the people okay as far as appointments I don't see I don't see why number two I don't see why we have to search the universe for a city manager why we don't have people qualified here right here in Treasure Island your time is up or or in the OR in this city I know my time is up okay thank you I'm just saying why can't we get a a a a strong mirror right from here in our community canellis County thank you okay thank you Chris Downey are you goingon to answer a question we don't do it on public comments it can be done when the Commissioners have the ability to to speak uh and some of these uh that I've written down tonight we're going to have to get some I don't have all the answers to all she's got it right in writing yeah that's yeah but we don't we don't respond to questions would be here all night long so but comment not this it's public comment not discussion as uh commissioner minning says Chris how you doing good uh good evening uh Chris Downing ISO Palms uh just want to uh I guess reiterate the what several folks have already said about the confusion that we all seem to have about the permitting process at this point at last Friday's emergency meeting it was pretty clear that the commission agreed to go with option two that we could move forward and I realize all of the efforts that are being put forth to get more staff and I applaud that and I do think many more things could be done done to to do triage has been already um spoken about tonight uh but what then comes is this affidavit to gum up the works not to implement option two so effectively we are back where we were several weeks ago that we have to wait if we don't want to sign this affidavit or the substantial damage reports to come in which I understand that many of those rep the data has been taken these guys are walking or girls are walking around with iPads and doing a very brief look at the front of a house and trying to make substantial damage from that I understand that none of the data has actually come to the city yet I probably I may have misinformation on that but I don't think any any of work has been done to actually take that data because the city doesn't even have the data yet so again we're back at where we were several weeks ago that we have now option one and option two but it's really that we're all stuck that if we don't sign this affidavit that we have to wait for option one and that's not what the commission I believe was put you know made a decision to do last Friday so I don't think the city staff is actually going forward with that recommendation now I realize they're trying to do something with the legal part of this but but this is actually not an affid I'm an engineer I'm not a lawyer but this is not an affidavit it's you know it's a it's an agreement to hold the city harmless and I'm not going to sign an agreement to hold the city harmless it's not going to there's no reason for me to do that there's no consideration here so there's no it wouldn't be a legal document I don't think anyway but it is certainly not an affidavit so I would encourage the commission tonight to squash this and go back to what she said last and agreed to do last Friday allow us to all go forward with option two I don't mind them doing these substantial D damage assessments and having that data but let's not slow up the process and please triage this down to getting the ones that you know have very little damage moving forward because like a number of people have already said tonight this is going to take till 2026 to get a permit the way it's going not 2025 I thought I was going to get to start at the first of the month but I I guess I'm not going to be able to that's the way it feels right now so again I would encourage you to tear up this well it's not an affidavit this piece of paper and go forward thank you very much okay the rest of these all are to talk on agenda items for tonight so we are done with the okay good on up I'm Patty pensano I'm from District 3 um all I wanted to say was is I felt like I followed all the rules that were in the guidelines for the city um I did an emergency permit as soon as it happened the weekend after Helen to let you know I was going to be tearing out you know all the stuff get it out of the house get it out to the street we did so I Then followed up with the city to within the next week to two weeks as soon as they opened up downstairs before they were allowed to get in the building filled out all my permitting got everything um signed off on and then my um contractor took it to the county panel and got a commencement to start work so it was filed with the county of pelis so we have everything we thought we were supposed to have we have the permit number I have called and called the city I have been up here at least three or four times waiting in lines trying to get a permit trying to move forward we are less than 50% we know that I then after I kept hearing all this stuff about you know maybe I I need to go get a you know a new um review of my house okay I did I paid $600 I went and did it now the thing's worth three or four times what it's not even nowhere near the 50% now so now I'm going to pay more taxes probably because of that um which yeah a stupid so you know please please do the right thing for the people that live here in this city please get rid of that stupid piece of paper that I sent two hours out here never got to talk to a single soul and I've sent emails and I have sent I've called people I just keep going to just voicemails nobody returns your call we're all lost we need help please that's what we wanted you all to do for us get rid of the piece of paper that came up after last Friday's meeting that the lawyer went off on a tangent and did and I don't think that's exactly what Deb and Ard wanted is what they put into place I do not believe that I sat here and listened I listened over and over again I beg you to please do the right thing for us so that we can get back at our homes thank you very much thank you we need you to fill something we're gonna hopefully go very quick here because we've tried to close it off but West Evans West Evans isop Pals I'll make this quick I just want to say it looks like we have uh two competing governments within our city right now we have our Representatives that we all elected and then there seems to be another government working inside that hasn't hasn't been voted on by any of us and uh they're making they're making decisions and when the commission when the people speak to our commissioners and to the mayor and say hey we don't want this and the commission and the mayor said hey yeah I don't think we want to do this the city staff uh unelected By Us is angry that you guys went against them and now they're punishing us through process that's what it seems like and I don't know if the Commissioners need to get together and find a solution for this why it seems like I said at the emergency meeting there's an adversarial relationship between City staff and residents uh it's just something I think you guys should talk about and see if we can find a solution to it because right now our elected representatives seem to be on our side it seems to be that way they're telling staff what we want done and staff finds a way to work around it because they're angry at us is what it seems like for choosing what they didn't want thank you and the last one Dana thank you very much I understand the living seaw wall has been taken off the agenda this evening my concern is where staff has been putting City funds that is important and taking a deeper looking into their agenda please bear with me as some of my comments will probably be discussed later September of 19 of 2022 hurricane Ian hit santal Island and took out the sanabelle causeway prohibiting hundreds of residents able to get back into their homes I brought to Mayor pay's attention the failing seaw wall on 100 to to Mayor Payne's attention we also have a a failing seaw wall on 115th Street on the is of Palms I sent him an email stating this it was possible that the seaw wall might be original I'm not an expert but none of this looks like it's ever been replaced I pointed out that there were several spots where the Earth behind the Caps was gone and sinking into sink holes not only is this is dangerous to people walking Behind the B behind the wall but a Telltale sign of failure over the next two years I I looped in now mayor doctor in the emails on July 11th 2024 mayor Payne stated that the seawall was going to be started soon but Elevate TI was pushing out the start date over the series of many emails I was told by mayor Payne that the new SE SE was in budget and he was checking with public works when they were going to get started this seaw wall continues to erode drastically at last count there was 18 compromised areas behind the Caps we're extremely lucky that hurricanes helain and Milton didn't take out the 115th Street seaw wall there're about 335 single family homes with residents that rely on that stretch of road to get to their homes daily obviously this was prior to helain and and Milton because now is of Palms is basically a ghost town there's a handful of us living there there's roughly 425 ft of seaw wall on each side making up about 850 total feet of seaw wall I talked with consulting company Ru clarson who Co quoted me current seaw wall prices of around $400 a foot to make a new seaw wall That's from scratch new seaw wall making 115th seaw wall project around $340,000 this seems like my very well spent to me to hear that one person's agenda to push through the living seaw wall during a time of Crisis and one that's grossly over budget to me is absolutely maddening no one relies on a seaw wall a living seaw wall to get to their home no one is using Treasure Bay right now this further proves that you don't if you don't live in the city with Treasure Island you don't have the city's residents in mind and you don't have their interests first I would ra I would car a wager if a staff lived on is of palms and relied on 115 to get to their home they might care more about rebuilding the seaw wall versus Treasure Bay seaw wall I applaud the zero contract option and just because we have a grant for a sea for a living seaw wall doesn't mean we have to use it thank you thank you all right now we come up to the uh commissioner reports and uh commissioner Toth thank you um yes thank you um I do agree that we do have some issues with permitting and we do need to get our people in the houses I also really really want to thank our staff because they have been working very hard and very long hours and I'm grateful that we do have sta additional people coming aboard to help them I like the double shifts because and nursing that's kind of we don't stop for the nine to five um I think that's good I don't think that our intent on what we wanted for the affidavit is really truly what came out of it and I think we can fix that um um I also wanted to make a note that um permitting for Condominiums is also very different um we've found out that so I do agree with Mr hoe on Condominiums versus single family homes there's some new caveats with condominiums that do need to be addressed and maybe we need a bifurcation on where we go with if you're in a condo a small project the rules that you have to have with permitting versus single family homes are total different can of worms because I've found that out myself my hurricane windows failed so my place is at the moment gutted so I understand the need to get through and get people home um that said let's move forward and then also I want to make an announcement that the library will be hopefully opening at the end of this month we also got flooded in the library and had a lot of work done there as you know we just remodeled all of that that so hopefully we're back into business and we'll be offering also application of assistance at the library for different um programs that people might qualify for we're going to try to get grants for people for their houses houses and things and that's what I have thank you thank you commissioner minning uh I would like to use my time to uh maybe clarify something I said earlier maybe it was construed uh to be anti- staff uh and I by no means ever ever would denigrate the staff for their work so just to just to put that on the on the table uh the main thing I'd like to go over is who uh and I'll ask the city manager and City attorney under what Authority was the affid the requirement for the additional affidavit uh developed who gave that authority to the City attorney my understanding was that Jennifer drafted it because she believed that was what was necessary to comply with the board's previous Direction but if that's not you know that's your decision to make uh I don't recall and maybe my fellow Commissioners can but I don't recall there being any type of directive from the commission uh to develop an extra ordinance um it's not an ordinance it's not an excuse me I misspoke sorry an extra requirement uh in order to get a permit and um I know we can't take votes here at the uh at the meeting there's not an agenda item on this but I would like for the commission and I would like for the city manager and yourself City attorney um to find the most expeditious way to remove that as a requirement for permit commissioner Dicky commissioner M if I could add in I I had watched some of the previous meeting and there were a couple of points where there was a reference to the affidavit and option two that was made during that meeting so I think that's what Jen took as to take a look at this and and provide an affidavit as part of option two thought that I'd have to go back to check that last part again but I thought she worked to clarify that through the commission before the end of the meeting I'll have to double check that I know there's two references one of them at about the 37 minute point and then the other one I didn't catch a Time on okay well I understand what your got your direction okay if I could mayor I'd like to address that I think that's referring to both commissioner Toof and M's suggestion that we have an Affidavit of some sort or disclaimer to uh warn people that uh that if they proceeded without having that substantial damage uh uh assessment done that they they they uh could risk losing money from that I wrote a two sentence Avid David that I sent to the city manager uh earlier today he's probably hasn't seen it yet but I had offered to write this up and what here's what I if you if I may I'd like to read that I wrote uh as an affidavit or a disclaimer probably I understand that if I choose to begin repair work on my house before the substantial damage assessment is completed and sent to me that I risk losing any incremental money I put into my house uh if my home is to determined to be substantially damaged I also am aware that I can appeal both the amount my home structure is valued at and the cost for repairs as calculated by the FEMA estimator that's what I had in mind for a a disclaimer uh to uh caution people who were either on the bubble or over the 50% rule that make sure they were aware that they were uh were doing that so uh I concur with uh uh commissioner men and commissioner Toth that if the commission has the authority to uh to cancel that current affidavit and substitute it for something more simple uh I would certainly support that I do have some other comments on top of that please uh one is that Gator dredging we I just found this out uh yesterday G Gator dring is pulling out of uh Sunset Beach uh uh at the end of next week uh as of today they already began to pull resources uh out of uh Sunset Beach and if you've been down there in the last several days uh you would understand there is a lot of concern there's still a lot of sand that needs to be moved moved both off the streets and on the beach and if we lose Gator drudging uh we're going to be in a we're going to be in a heap of trouble so I'm asking the the mayor uh and the city manager to please use uh whatever influence you have to uh uh convince the county to keep Gator dredging here longer because we uh there's a lot more work to do and if they leave uh that work could go undone for for months uh that was uh one item another item I'd like to talk about is uh last night a group of Treasure Island residents met on the fifth floor of this building uh at the request of a resident uh paval Bella and the the item or the uh the topic of discussion was elevating your house there were 18 people that attended that all of which I shouldn't say all of which 15 of the 18 were Sunset Beach residents but they came there to hear about uh the the possibility of elevating their current one-story structure there were three uh contractors there that were very helpful and shared quite a bit of information that was not planned uh they had heard about the meeting and they attended and they were I thought they were very helpful the reason I'm sharing this with the people that are here today as well as anyone who's who's watching is uh Pav's main intent here is he intends to raise his house he started out this this mission on his own uh and he's gotten several estimates to do that and they range from 100,000 to 300,000 and he it occurred to him that if he could get more people to do the same thing at roughly the same time he's doing that he might be able to uh substantially reduce the cost of doing that so uh he has right now 21 people 21 residents who are interested not necessarily who have committed but who are interested in learning more and probably uh uh go along with him uh to have his house elevated around the same time and be able to take advantage of some economy scale but anyway if you're anyone is interested in and learning more about that or doing or or uh from paval let me know and I'll be glad to send you his information and the last thing uh I wanted to mention was the triage uh we we' mentioned that Friday uh I think that's a good idea I don't know if this city is doing that uh Chuck do you know if if if she is doing that okay thank you that's all I have great thank you um I I feel the uh the same way that uh most of you and the other Commissioners do about the the affidavit the new affidavit um we did not intend to or I can at least I could say and I think everybody up here we did not intend to have the a document where they had to indemnify and they have to you know we did not if anything um commissioner Dicky did a great job of writing up few sentences that basically makes it clear that if you start early without the uh assessment being done that there may be you may be on the hook for any uh work that you had as far as the expenditure um and that's all I was trying to do is is make the make sure that the resident understands that starting at this pace without the assessment uh that you may be out on on limb of whatever you put back into your home and that's all it it really was I think all four of us have the the exact same thought process that uh that we don't need to do anything um yes I I also agree that um you take a look at uh option one and option two and um option two although uh we will start putting things we will start moving permits forward had to sign the affidavit the new affidavit otherwise it just stops and I don't think that that was our intention either so just a short little disclaimer of of what it is and moving forward I think that that's the direction that uh we would like to see for the the attorney um and moving forward um everybody's asked a lot of questions tonight about permitting and what is and isn't and timelines and everything else and that's uh I I really can't answer that from here here because it's it's very difficult to do um I I will say though that we realize that we have a Manpower issue um I think that Chuck will have a very successful meeting tomorrow um and I I understand from the uh the zoom that I was on Zoom business mean I was on yesterday that uh they have the ability to move forward quickly and quickly could be as early as next Monday um and and right now they're working a project and as I said a little earlier the project that they're working on is very similar to our project uh so they do know all of our codes and the state codes and the state uh you know code for building homes and everything else and they also uh have been uh trained to to be able to speak to customers uh or residents uh that um that are having issues or on certain things especially when it comes to that it looks as though that their property may be substantially damaged and they can walk them through a lot of different steps that uh that start from one is there is something that the uh uh the County Commission or I'm sorry not the county the county uh property appraiser um has something on if you go in and you you look he has a potential way of bumping up the value of the structure uh by as much as 20 or $30,000 and and um and so that's the one of the things they'd look at the other thing is go and spend the additional money and get the appraisal because the appraisal uh when Mike or yeah when Mike uh Tweety talked about it uh at madira Beach last week it was you know that that potentially you could go 40% higher 50% higher even up to 60% higher and so uh so these folks though that they are going to be there and hopefully you know our folks are working hard behind the scenes doing all the codes that and that's that's the best part is that you know that they they know our local codes the folks that are coming in know all the building codes and most of the states because a lot of the codes are the same in the state but uh a lot of times you have your own code as well um and those are the ones that we're going to have to train the people and get them up on up to speed on but um hopefully uh we're going to be able to talk to you next time which is about 12 days from now uh and talk about uh you know how successful it's it's been and how quickly we're moving forward yes you thre um no after after you go ahead uh I'm sitting here with a feeling that there's some unfinished business um and the unfinished business is we still have an affidavit that has to be signed in order to get a permit and so my question is since that affidavit was never authorized or voted on by the commission is of no one void Chuck and I were actually actually going to ask you about that is it the commission's direction to go forward with a shorten version like uh commissioner Dicky read or to have no requirement at all requirement please yeah my my preference would be no require we already have a an affidavit requirement is that shared by the other commission I think it's important to at least give them that uh piece of paper so that they're aware that there is risk they don't I don't I'm not that uh keen on whether they sign it or not but I do think it's important that uh that information be shared with resident that's fair I would agree with that I would agree with that too give him a notice it's notice doesn't have to be signed all right thank you is that fair yeah I I agree unless there's something that they come back with that's really uh off the wall you know saying that we did it because and we have to and everything else uh I think that it it's a piece of paper that we can give them and something even as short as commissioner Dicky but but just so that they recognize when they're there getting the permit and they're signing for everything that uh that this is this is the case understood so if we could immediately stop using the the appid David that's uh been used the last several days uh and if we could see the uh the rewrite of that uh document that you're going to leave with people so they understand what their options are going forward appreciate be before we start using before you start or just immediately well hopefully immediately but if we could see it we meet meeting the commission if you could send it out to us just so we can see what it says sure thanks and you'll do that retroactively for the people who have already applied and have received the letter yes we'll we'll figure that out good thank you out to them thank you okay it is it is getting late so uh let's see if we can't move uh quickly through the consent agenda uh and with the consent agenda it uh it appears as though we've taken off U H3 yep uh we do have uh that'll be after the fact so can uh for the consent agenda can we have a motion please I think there's a couple of motions here the first one is I move to approve the city manager spending Authority in the mount not to exceed $30,000 for the purchase of a code enforcement vehicle okay so it's a consent agenda so we're going to we'll wrap it up and just yeah let's go to the next one okay and the next one oops H2 hold on my S I've lost it let me see if I have it here so usually for the consent AGA I move to approve the city manager to execute the attached contract extensions with santac and MBI and their Associated disciplines okay and we have moved H3 to our next meeting so I'll uh prove the I second the consent agenda as it stands okay and public comment and this is on the consent agenda which includes purchase of a vehicle for code enforcement and renewal of continuing Services contracts with multiple disciplines good a couple J each yep I do have a couple uh Rick sitting there too long just turned 60 and I almost took myself out all right um good evening uh Rick Matthew District 3 and I came across this vehicle code enforce it seems like every couple months we buy more Vehicles we just spent 280,000 for some police cruisers now we're spending another 30,000 we got seaw walls that need to be done we got a fleet of over 61 last time I checked Vehicles so that that's that's a lot of vehicles every time we add one that's more maintenance cost than everything else so I guess my question going green has a a price and I'll I'll explain that in the the agenda item as a result of losing all electric or wait a second as a result of being all electric in a low profile vehicle staff is recommending the purchase of a more capable vehicle with greater ground clearance we just bought this car so now it's who's on the hook for we made a bad decision let's buy another one anyway so I'm G to feed into this next thing lead certification I didn't really know what it was there's no tangible reason to chase the lead certification absolutely not what we get at a lead certification is resiliency studies Mobility studies that we all resly rejected we spent thousands of dollars that could have repaired the seaw wall we get terrain management uh it's overseen by the US Green Building Council that is a nonprofit so if we have people in this building dedicated to this thing what is the return for the residents and that's how we get into the kayak launches and the shorelines and stuff like like that I want to hear about 104th Road replacement that's going to be what about our sidewalks what about all these projects our lift station we're doing all these lead stuff that doesn't benefit us we didn't ask for it I have yet to be to a commission meeting or a vote that asks for these things I'm not saying green is bad but it comes at a price and right now the price is being paid by the residents another thing we're recommending the U extension of these contracts I'm a parent if my kid came to me and said I need $20,000 for a broad range of anticipated Services I'd say no what is broad range and they're asking you guys to sign it another thing is the other companies that we shot down GIS mapping and everything else I think if we Trace those back those are all lead initiatives we hired too many consultants to provide studies for things we didn't ask for take a poll of your your residents and say what do you want and nobody is going to come forward and say I vote I vote almost every day well except till helan I don't see kayaks out there what is the big push for kayak launches I don't see kayaks coming over the bridge where are they how many kayaks can we possibly launch I spent a lot of time at John's Pass at Eleanor Allen I see no kayaks and those that are there they're rented there's a few but that fat is gone now it's stand up paddle boards anyway thank you thank you Robert baso hi Robert baso district one again it seems like a little thing uh to put my name down about a car U but um director merer painted kind of a bleak picture for the fourth quarter of 24 I can just imagine what fy2 is going to look like there's discretionary spending and there's non-discretionary spending um he also mentioned that we I guess we lost our parking enforcement vehicle I wonder why that happened I mean it shouldn't be on the island during a storm so um a new truck seems like a minor thing $30,000 is a lot not a lot of money but it's a discretionary or not discretionary perhaps we look at other ideas like uh personal Car Plus pay mileage um something may be used I'm not sure this at the right time for this sort of non discretionary um sort of spending and do we really need it now for fy2 I know it's a tough DEC decision but this is going to be a bleak year I mean our tax so we our tax revenue went up 10% um uh at the end of of 24 it's not going to go up 10% at the end of 25 so I just think we need to start budgeting like you your own budget I mean I worked in government 30 years I I use I always used my my federal budget as if it was my own I mean I ow every time I spent you know a million dollars it was as if it was my own okay and so 30,000 for a truck little thing but maybe it's going to be cumulative over the year that is one thing about there's one nisre nondiscretionary U budget a for FY 25 that I want to make sure we spend on and you all know what it is it's called pickle ball so uh we definitely need to spend money on that in fway 25 there only $100,000 but I'm not sure about the other things things like the living seaw wall and perhaps a used truck we have plenty of used trucks around here right now with a little bit of water damage but they'll be okay okay thank you thank you okay do we have any other okay so uh question I just have a couple questions real quick um the truck the Maverick is for the second code enforcement officer correct that is correct yes okay so there's two code of Force officers we have the car that we have and then the second one that we're looking to purchase correct thank you and then also moving forward it's the contract is just as an as needed if we get into some kind of weed or course it's um a retainer fee so not a not a retainer fee but we're putting the company on for retainer to spend up to that amount if need be for those Services Landscaping surveying structural engineer work etc they do do with GIS mapping correct okay and which is what was used for all the debris pickup commercial residential debris pickup all of those items we use GIS mapping for that thank you go ahead Bob um but this isn't a cart lanch um for these firms they have still have to come back to commission to approve funding corre they would they would still come back and these would be approved by the commission correct yeah okay no I was just saying that we're not handing out $20,000 on a credit card and saying oh we've got this much to spend no yeah okay so you have oversight uh on this correct we do well we we we approved and and we have some oversight with but I want to know what's happening on a daily basis is is basically what are we using these folks for and and I know there's a lot of things but uh you and the department uh manager or Department directors are are discussing as you they go forward correct correct yes okay okay all right anything else can I have a motion please we did we did and we did a second we did so okay and we're so so now we're at the vote it's getting late now we're at the vote vice mayor dicki I commissioner Toth I commissioner Min I mayor doctor I thank you all right so now we are going to move to um we're down to 1.3 I3 aren't we I'm sorry I3 because these two are the shoreline yes so left is I3 on discussing so yes the uh I3 is the consideration of appointment to the city of Treasure Island commission for District Two good evening Commissioners so as you are aware of following the resignation of Mayor Payne on October 28th vice mayor doctor assumed the role of Mayor leaving the district 2 seat vacant tonight we need to discuss the process F filling that vacancy and seek your direction on how to proceed with vice mayor doctor now serving as mayor District 2 is currently without representation on the commission um Charter requirements according to the city Charter article 3 section 3.06 the vacancy must be filled within 30 days meaning by November 27th the appointment must be a resident of District 2 the appointment will last until the next regular city election which is March 11th 2025 so it's a temporary appointment in line with the charter guidelines to ensure an open and transparent process staff recommends that candidates submit a letter of interest to the city clerk with the deadline of November 15th 2024 at noon the letter should include the these are just for your consideration name address and how long the candidate has lived in District 2 reasons for wanting to serve relevant education professional experience and any past involvement with the city or city boards filling the vacancy promptly will ensure that District 2 is represented and the commission's work continues without interruptions so the next steps is Commissioners I'm asking and seeking Direction on The Following to confirm a timeline and process for accepting and reviewing the letter of interest and whether you would like to establish any additional criteria for the applicants and then once we have your direction we'll proceed with the Gathering of the letters in interest and plan to review them at the next meeting which is November 19th and also to let you know we have two applicants as of right now applications letters of interest from Diana crel and Mr uh Chris Carter Clark okay so I um I was GNA hold off until next meeting to to bring up a subject matter but now it probably is the best time because what we're saying is that we're going to be putting somebody in a position for about three and a half four months uh in in the temporary I for one am not sure and I it was somebody was speaking earlier tonight about the process of how this is is actually going down and what what's in the charter and how the charter reads and I'm not completely sure and I've talked with a couple of friends that are attorneys and uh uh and I've actually talked with our attorney as well um because the language is is is a it's an interpretation of what the language meant what intent did it have because it's very confusing and very poorly written and U so what uh Jennifer had suggested is that we uh we bring upon another uh attorney I to write a opinion letter uh on whether or not you know that uh that this is really what it's going to be temporary versus fulfilling the the uh the actual ter firm of the office whether it be commissioner or mayor so I think that uh before we uh we come back on the the 19th what I'd like to do and I guess uh Mr attorney um can we take a vote to uh to do that now um or would that have to be something that's got to go onto a agenda or the city would need to use a process uh you'd ultimately have to approve the contract with the attorney themselves that would have to go on but a direction for the city to begin that process would be sufficient if that's what you want to do okay um yes um question uh when I was appointed uh the process seemed to work fairly well um you I didn't mean that self- serving um but we have precedence uh on this so why do we need an attorney can I well that that's correct that we do because we've already gone through a cycle and and had it so um and and if I may no front the if I may so when um vice mayor Partridge had resigned she resigned on December 31st the ballot deadline um language was due in November or earlier if you will and that was the reason why your appointment has lasted as long as it did for this particular time for district 2 if we did a temporary appointment it would be for that time so that would mean for district one and District three and District Two would be um have to go through the qualifying process of becoming a candidate for those districts um and then um complete it before the d uh the deadline so that on March 11 202 we would have three um seats um district one would be for two years four excuse me well no that well that one depends right we don't know about the mayor yet yes so we're just talking about District Two so um we have the commission district one for two years we have District three for two years and then the district uh excuse me dist District Four and then the district two would be the remainer of your partial term so your term so whatever that would be and then we that would be that staggering that um our City Attorney Jennifer Cowan was referring to so we would still continue to have it so one and three would be continue that one would be a partial so then it would be the mayor two and four make sense so how would we do this to I mean we can say what we want to see happen uh for somebody to a apply for that position um same as uh I'm going to probably have to do the same thing as apply for the position but what a uh a letter should not take that long to to get an opinion correct from an attorney from an attorney we would have to negotiate and execute the contract with them which might take time it's that would be something Jennifer would be handling okay but if you want to give the city direction to begin that process and looking for attorneys that's something you can do today okay but I can't comment on how long would take that would be okay I'm not sure sh you have any thoughts no idea we'll go as quickly as possible all right so so is everybody on board yeah but I just don't understand why we just can't complete the term for commission um mayor doctor to finish his term all the way out to his mayor replace p Tyler and then have our district two person run the term to when the normal election for that District would be I just don't get why we have to have all these little abbreviated terms terlet for M sake of better words then um just using the charter and using it as the next election for that position I mean it seems like that should be the clarity is if it's for for that term or just can be for that position as when it's due Jennifer is your City attorney she's who you know you pay for legal advice uh if you do something she says you're protected by our insurance carrier her opinion is that what the charter language currently has requires the next regular election to be when the mayor's appointed uh you know she looked at the charter language she looked at case law of course are applying scalia's rules of interpretation which really focus on the actual text of theart and the uh construction how it got there so she looked at the Review Committee in 2010 when it was last amended and this is the opinion that she has come down on the reason she suggested that you get another attorney is so that you'd be protected by their insurance if they give you the opinion you know and the city has liability at some point you would be protected by that okay yeah it's a cya as well you're saying she's I I think Jennifer is doing what this what our city Char her interpretation of what the city Charter means and if we want a second opinion to that I don't know if we want to be this casual about it or not uh but I know somebody who's been a City attorney in the State of Florida and also uh has been the city manager uh in the in uh Port St Lucy uh he's now retired but he might be a good person to take a look at this and and uh probably would do no had no charge if we were interested in going down that route it it would be someone you would want it to be someone who you have an attorney client relationship with so you're protected if it's just someone who's not licensed to practice law it wouldn't really have an licensed to practice law right in the State of Florida yeah yeah do we have to have bids and all that good stuff we might that's something Jennifer and chuck would need to look into we need to you know estimate how much it would cost things like that uh it would probably be a lower amount since just be a one-off thing so it would probably be a lower form of procurement I don't think bids are needed unless it goes above a certain amount in the city so I don't think bids would be necessary but I can't confirm that are we all in favor of moving forward with uh getting a contract with a a firm sure with having a second opinion yes okay so that's the direction that we yeah if we drag this out long enough we'll be pass the filing date yeah commissioner dicki can I talk offline with you sure thank you yeah yeah okay so it seems like we're stuck with we have to appoint somebody for short term correct and I think you made a good list and if I remember right from years ago that list is about the same list that I had to fill out for my first year uh because it was a special election so um I I am comfortable with the criteria that that you have set for the uh the term if it if we go to a special election for that that term if that makes sense okay the other thing is is um can we have the applications to be in before um the published minute um meeting notices out so whatever date you want we need that date bumped up a little bit quicker okay because at 15th they're not going to be on the meeting notice so then we'll have late notices and all of that so if we have it so when the minutes in the meeting agenda comes out I think then we need the applications due for that we're looking at the 12th or the 13th thank you we'll do November 13th Excuse me yes four days from that yeah it has to move fast we have 30 days to get this person appointed and then our next meeting is in two weeks and the agenda comes out so we do need to have it so that the public can also see who's applying for the position no no argument okay thank you well with that seems to be the end of our uh agenda for tonight so with that we will adjourn