--------- Welcome to the city. >> Hit the button, Richard. >> Your mic. >> I always forget about that. Are you ready >> on TV? >> Yep, we're ready. >> Okay. Welcome to the city of Treasure Island planning and zoning board meeting
for September 18th, 2025. If you wish to speak on a topic which is on today's agenda, a speaker card is available at the table over by the entrance and must be completed and given to the chair person. Please do not address the board from your seat, but
rather from the podium where your comments can be heard by all and recorded as required by Florida statute. Unscheduled items may be presented under the public comments section of the agenda. Okay, let's all stand for the pledge of
allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
All right, if everybody would please uh silence their cell phones so we don't get interrupted as usually happens at least once. Come on. Phone there. Uh could we have a roll call there? Uh Tia,
>> first we have to start off with the oath of office for Valerie. >> I was going to do that, too. Right. >> I was just doing it out of order, but I forgot. We do have a new uh board member today, Valerie Ari. Welcome to the
board. And we need to swear her in, then we'll swear in the audience. >> Yes. >> Is that Is that the way you want to do it? >> Oath. Roll call, then swear we're in a audience. >> There you go. Okay, sounds good. >> Don't forget to press the button on your mic because I don't know if they told you. It has to be green. If it's green,
then it's on. >> Go ahead and raise your right hand and repeat after me. I state your name. I, Valerie, >> do solemnly swear >> domly swear >> that I will support, protect, and defend >> that I will support, protect, and defend
>> the Constitution and government >> the Constitution and government >> of the United States >> of the United States >> and of the state of Florida >> and of the state of Florida >> that I will well >> that I >> will well
>> will well >> and faithfully perform >> and faith faithully perform >> the duties on the planning and zoning board >> the duties of the planning and zoning board >> and local planning agency
>> and planning agency >> of the city of Treasure Island Florida >> of the city of Treasure Island Florida >> on which I'm about to enter >> of which I'm about to enter >> Thank you. >> Okay, thank you. I will get back in order then. Now we'll have the roll call. Valeria Cree,
>> she's official. >> Gary Plateniano >> here. >> Ross Sanchez >> here. >> Chris Donning >> here. >> Grant Smith >> here. >> Marvin Shablin >> here. >> Richard Harris >> here. >> Thank you. >> Let's see. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Everybody gets to vote today
because Mark's not here as well. All right. Uh, election of chair and vice chair. I will say that this is my last year on the board. I've enjoyed my let's say I'm up to 12 years now. This will be my 12th
year. I'd like to uh throw my name in as chair for one last year and uh if somebody else wants to do it, they can uh throw their name in as well, but uh I would just like to say go out with a
bang as the chairman. I um we've I think that we've accomplished a lot together as a as a board with uh Richard as the chair and I'll make a motion to let him carry on for another year. >> If I don't know if we have to have a discussion about it for the city
attorney or >> um so what you'll open nominations essentially and anyone can nominate anyone. If there's a second then um you move to discussion and several people can be nominated and then ultimately you vote in order of the nominations. If there's multiple people and I recommend
doing a chair and then a vice chair separate. >> I will make a nomination of Richard Harris to remain as the chair for one more year. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> So I'd like to make an alternative nomination. >> Okay. >> So I would nominate Chris Downey as
chair. >> Okay. >> Well, if you're gonna uh I appreciate that. Uh, I guess I'll I'll do a a second nomination for vice chair for grant just so if that's if that's appropriate at this point. >> We haven't recommended although you know
I'm doing probably chair first and then vice chair just for simplicity to keep it clear. Um but so you you are allowed to second his motion if you if you're on um your nomination and then what you would do is you would vote first for um and if a majority has already elected a
chair then obviously you wouldn't go to the second but um if if you have >> Sure. I guess if no one else is gonna going to second, I'll I'll do my own second. >> I guess I'm going to do Ross as a as a chair, vice chair. >> Well, let's do one complete first.
>> Fine. >> We're doing the chairman first and then we'll go for the for the vice chair. So, we have a sec uh a nomination by Ross Sanchez for me with a second >> me >> from Gary. Uh, we have a nomination for
Chris Downing and a uh second by Grant Smith and a second by Christopher Downing and any others? >> Seeing none, let's have a roll call vote then from for chair. >> Are we starting with um for Richard
Harris? >> Yes. In the order of nomination. So that would be first and if he doesn't receive a majority then you move to the second name. >> Yeah. Just call the roll call and just announce whoever you want to vote for. >> Valerie, >> Richard Harris.
>> Gary Patenziano. >> Richard Harris. >> Ross Sanchez. >> Richard Harris. >> Chris Downing. >> Chris. >> Grant Smith. >> Chris Downey. >> Marvin Shadlin. >> Richard Harris. >> I guess that'd be a no. >> Richard. >> Yeah. Vote for myself. Okay.
>> Looks like five to two. Thank you very much for your support. Uh, with that, I'm going to nominate I'm going to keep things rolling the same way they are. Ross Sanchez for vice chair. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh, any others?
>> Anybody else for vice chair? >> Did somebody already nominate? >> Yeah, I guess I I'll nominate Grant as vice chair just so we have a choice in the mix here. >> And could I have a second on that? >> I will have to second my own nomination.
>> That's allowed. People sometimes don't do it because of it seems funny, but it's certainly allowed. Yeah, >> it's sad. >> Okay, we have uh two applicants uh or two candidates. Uh you know, they both been nominated and seconded. Can we have
a roll call vote for vice chair >> Greeniano? >> Ross. >> Ross. >> Mhm. >> Chris Downing. >> I'll vote for Ross on this. Grant Smith. >> I'll vote for Grant Smith on this one.
Yes. >> Marvin Shavelin. >> Ross. >> The one Richard Harris. >> The one. Correction, Valerie, you actually mentioned Chris Downing. Who the applicant is is uh Grant Smith and Ross Sanchez. >> Chris Smith. I'm sorry. My apologies.
>> Grant Smith. >> Grant Smith. >> Okay. Grant Smith. And just to make sure I'm getting them all right. Gary was Ross. Ross was Ross. Chris was Ross. Grant was Grant. Marvin, >> I was Ross. >> Ross. And I will vote for Ross. So,
thank you very much. Ross Sanchez is also the vice chair for >> Thank you. >> for another year. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh we'll have the uh city attorney review the Sunshine Law and Public Records law if you have any comments. >> Um just quick overview. I think
obviously the the returning members are very familiar with it, but you can't talk about with fellow board members outside of a publicly advertised and noticed meeting. You can't talk about issues that are before the zoning board or may come before the zoning board. Um,
and so that's that's the biggest aspect of the sunshine law. And then also Florida has broad public records under chapter 119 and others, but known collectively as the sunshine law. And so just understand anytime you have discussions or conversations um that are
in written form that those are if they're about city business then those are generally subject to public records even if they're on private um like a mobile device that kind of thing if they're about city business. One of the things I'd also just um one other caveat is because um some of these zoning
meetings are quasi judicial uh that you typically want to um let people know if you've had what's known as exparte outside of this publicly advertised meeting. It's allowed. You're certainly able to have those. You just want to put it on the record. Hey, I had a conversation with the applicant about
the meeting. In fact, you can meet with them. You can have a conversation. Better understand that's all totally legal. You just have to say outside of this meeting I met with or had communication with the applicant and that just creates a uh public record for notice um that you had that exparte
communication if that makes sense. >> Or with somebody else, >> correct? Not just the applicant. Yes. Any anyone essentially, but um typically it happens with an applicant or a representative of an applicant wanting to meet with you and discuss the project ahead of time. Um, but yeah, if somebody
um and if like you get emails on this or that type of thing, you can just collectively say, I've received several emails from different folks and kind of um that's in the public records. It's pretty clear who that is. But typically it comes up with with either a developer or an applicant or a representative of
the applicant wanting to meet with you ahead of time. So >> So just for clarity, it's just it's only exparte if it's regarding that that a particular case that's before. >> Correct. Yes. >> Not a general conversation. >> Yeah. So, if they generally come to you and say, "Hey, you know, I would love
for um you guys to look at updating plans or I I'm frustrated by this or that kind of thing." But if a specific like for instance, we have a variance on the agenda today. If somebody talked to you about the variance ahead of time, I mean, city staff is fine, but like if if an applicant or representative of the
applicant talked to you about that um and advocated for that, then that would be something you would want to disclose. And then uh one other real quick thing on because I have gotten this question uh in the past. Just to clarify um when
it comes to conflict um of interest and and voting on stuff, if something benefits you, you're that's allowed as long as it's not a specific and unique benefit to you alone essentially. So for instance, if you vote on something because you think it's better for Treasure Island as a whole, that could
benefit you, but it's not a specific benefit. And so, um, in in cases where like it's your actual variance coming before the the zoning board, that would be something you'd have to recuse yourself because it's your actual variance. So, >> this is a point of clarification. Is
there a threshold? So, when you say it benefits the entire city as opposed to a single individual, is there some kind of cut score threshold is applicable in those? >> It's usually the the specific um financial benefit. So if if somebody
maybe was a contractor or did work out there or had a house that was directly affected, that would be the threshold. Direct affecting is the key. Whereas if it's a generalized benefit, so one of the questions I got from I I forget actually who it was, but one of the
members of zoning board was if if you're um wanting to at some point do an application to raise your your house or you do are participating in raising of houses, are you allowed to vote on generally on raise? Yes, you absolutely are. The only issue is if you are the
actual applicant. um obviously you can't or if there's a direct benefit like you could not be a planning member of the planning and zoning board and get money to represent a zoning applicant that type of thing. Does that make sense how it's very specific? It's not generalized because generally I hope you're voting
to benefit yourself and the community as a whole and in that that vein. So um but if you ever have specific questions myself uh Mr. Sabatini or um Miss Sabatini, all three of us are available at any time. We all have our cells out there. Uh, and if you don't have my
cell, happy to give that to you and please feel free to call us. We're happy to answer anytime. So, >> so if you have a property >> and you're voting on an ordinance that affects your property, but it also affects 30 other properties.
>> Yes. No issue because there's no direct >> Okay. specific benefit to you because again like if you're you know in the same way the city council if they vote on a trash contract well they're covered by the trash contract but they want good service for everyone. There's no direct
benefit but they certainly couldn't be uh an employee of the trash company that is applying that kind of thing. Their direct benefit aspect is the is the main issue. So if you get a incidental collateral benefit that's totally fine. It's the direct benefit as that you're
essentially in somehow involved in and directly benefiting from it being voted up or down. >> So, does it only take one other beneficiary aside from the applicant for this to be a generalized benefit? >> Um, so
I would um generally yes. I mean it so it it that's more of a probably fact specific case. I wouldn't want probably a specific case but mo the the biggest thing is like a variance is a very specific thing right so if um somebody is um coming to the board with a
variance and someone has been hired to represent them or be a part of that variance then if there's a direct benefit from that variance being granted then that would be maybe where someone would want to recuse themselves but generally most of the things you guys are voting on if it's hey we we think
this is a good idea to have um a certain thing or this isn't a good idea. That isn't going to be a direct benefit to anyone. Even if incidentally as a result of that maybe um you know you have a business in town and it does better because now there's a public or does
that's that's not direct benefit enough um for it to be considered a conflict of interest under Florida statute. That makes sense. So but again I'm happy to just in the sake of time happy to answer any specific hypotheticals or or fact specific situations that you have questions about. happy to um take those
calls at any time. Um feel free to to to reach out to myself or Anthony or Francesca. >> Okay, moving on. Uh approval of minutes, we have none. Status update on prior planning and zoning cases. We usually get that from Jesse Miller. As you as
you can see around town, we don't have any construction, but go ahead, Ross. Um >> so this is the second month in a row that we don't have this sheet. because last month's PNZ got cancelled. Um,
is there did Jesse provide any type of like update because three meetings ago we were told the Nor Haven was going to be coming in front of us for something. I understand that there's some other properties that are in that um
moratorium. Is that the would I use the right word? in regards to the cycle like the rally, the McDonald's, like I understand that those things are still in in the push back error, but can we and I'm not saying for right now that we
need an answer, but for the next P&Z meeting, can we at least have some type of data or content because >> I don't want to go three meetings in a row with not having updates on cases. >> The summary sheet, >> yeah, he'll be back next week. Um, so we can probably email something else to you
guys next week when he gets back. He did we do have um >> we have a variance that I believe will be coming next time. >> Yes. >> You sent over today. So there is a variance for single family home um and
then there is a site plan coming um for 11295 Gulf Boulevard. >> It wasn't ready for this meeting. So, okay. >> You know, hopefully be ready for the next one, but we can certainly put something together and get it out to you guys next week. >> Okay. Thank you. >> What was that address again for next
month? Uh >> um the site plan that's in the memo that we got before you left was 11295 Gulf Boulevard. >> 11295. >> And then there's a variance um which is
8576 West Gulf Boulevard. >> It's always good to know where these places are. >> Always going to be coming. >> Okay. something out to you next week when he gets back. >> Hearing procedures, anything you need to talk tell us on that, Gavin? >> Just I think I covered it kind of in the um it's a quasi judicial hearing
especially on the variances. Uh and so in that what you do you you want to do is end um objectively here and then make a determination and you can't be arbitrary or capriccious in your determination. You just can't say I don't like this and that's why you have
to have a a foundation for a denial um typically or um try to keep it similar to a what a a courtroom a neutral arbiter would would do. um but it's not quite as extreme as a courtroom and that's why it's the quasi um judicial
aspect of it. So, >> okay. Could we have uh anybody who's going to speak at today's hearing? Could they uh raise their right hand and be sworn in? >> For everyone that's going to be speaking, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that
the testimony and evidence that you're about to give before the planning and zoning board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Thank you. >> Okay. Expporte communication. One of the
commissioners did refer this case to me and uh said, "What do we do?" I said, "Well, you apply for a variance." So, that's why we're here today. And that's was my contact. So, we'll move on to the presentation of
the item 13A VR-000035, excuse me, 535-2025-117007th Street East. Variance request to section 68541 to allow a proposed 8 foot wide front staircase for an elevated structure to
encroach 8 ft into the 15t front yard set back. The applicant is here. If you could uh approach the desk and make a uh your presentation. >> Okay. Good afternoon. How are you? My name is Alan Dallas
>> for the podium. This is my lovely wife, Robin. She unfortunately is out on business today back in Washington, DC, so she couldn't be here, but I do have my mother-in-law here who is supportive of me today.
>> Is your mic on? Is your mic on? >> Can you not hear me? >> Is the green light on? And >> green light. >> It's on. >> Okay. All right. >> I don't see a green light. >> He said it's on. You're good. >> Is it on? Can you hear me? >> No. Y Okay. >> Thanks. I'll try to speak into this. So,
my wife Robin and I moved here back in 2020 from Washington DC. And maybe this is some information that I just want to provide to you to give you a little feeling for who we are and where we're from. So, we decided in 2015 that we wanted to relocate relocate to Florida.
After 5 years of searching the West Coast, we decided and picked Treasure Island, Florida. And one of the reasons we selected Treasure Island in support of our police department is we noticed in our travels that the other cities around here didn't have their own police department, but Treasure Island did. And
that was something that made us feel very comfortable in moving to Treasure Island. Another thing we loved about Treasure Island was it didn't have the density of a St. Pete beach and of a clear water and uh we really enjoyed that. We wanted to be a part of a small
town community and to participate in the government and the the running of our uh small town and to have input into that running of the small town. So we came in in the middle of COVID in 2020 and
Washington DC was on a lockdown. You couldn't even go to your friends houses and have dinner. You had to stay separate. So it was quite an interesting scenario. We came down here and wow, the bars were open, the restaurants were open, people were communicating, they
were gathering, they were enjoying life. So, we loved that idea and we uh moved down here. Since we moved here, uh we've had to deal with many, many storms and from being from DC, we were never affected by storms of this nature or
floods. So, we've learned to live with the trauma of hurricane season, right? So, here's just a few of the hurricanes. I believe it's a comprehensive list of everything we've seen since we moved here in 2025 or 2020.
So, the narrative I've come to you today for is uh front steps for our new home. So, I'm going to run you through the substantial damage letter, but we got a substantial damage letter from the city substantially damaging our house. And as
part of that, we were given four options. Elevate the house, tear it down, and rebuild, um, move the house somewhere else, and I forget what the fourth one was. We'll see here in just a moment. But, uh, because we are substantially damaged, I
did request the backup data for that substantial damage classification. And so after waiting about four months, I finally got a letter in the mail that showed me exactly what the damages were to my house with a breakdown as to what was damaged. And unfortunately, the
superructure, as they call it, and the foundation were damaged, contributing to this classification. So, a couple of things I want to talk about are the the city ordinance 202427. I'll get into that in just a moment.
So, here's the substantial damage letter. You can see, let me see if I have a pointer here. You can see that we did get a substantial damage classification. And the next slide here is gives us the four options when you were substantially
damaged. And because our superructure was damaged, we were pretty much forced to select rebuild, tear down, and rebuild your home. So here you go. This is the complete breakdown of all the damages and
percentages for our house for our home. At the top there, I've circled the foundation and super structure were each damaged by 5% each for a total of 10%. Superructure and foundation are pretty important things when you're lifting a
home because you're using the foundation of the prior slab to lift it. So, we do not believe that the option for us would be to elevate the home. So, some of the supporting ordinances
that don't aren't apples to apples comparison here, but there is city ordinance 2024-27 codified on January 21st of this year. I understand that this ordinance applies only to elevated and jacked up current
homes. However, in our situation, because elevation is not an option for us, our only option is to rebuild a new home. I just asked for your consideration of
2024 which you've already given the u capability to encroach on the setback for any home that was jacked up and lifted. And then the second topic I want to talk about is terrain modification setback
adjustment factor. And this factor comes into play when you're bringing in field dirt. So, our new home will be elevated 2 feet above the current grade. And if you drive around Treasure Island, you'll see that many of the new homes that are
being built are doing exactly that. They're lifting a foot and a half to 2 feet above grade and then bringing in filled dirt just in the front in order to grade the property up to the garage door. Well, the terrain modification setback
adjustment factor with 2 ft of fill gives me exactly 3 foot2 in that I'm allowed to have inside of the setback. So, I'm asking for 8 ft, which would be an additional 4T 10 in.
If anyone has any questions as I'm presenting, please feel free to stop me. >> Okay, >> you're probably very familiar with these. I have a question. Yes, Mr. Shavelin. >> Did you talk to anybody about lifting your house? >> Mr. Shavelin,
over the past year and through the trauma of being disposed, displaced from our home. Sure. I'm an engineer by trade. I talked to probably 15 different contractors. I got quotes from 15 different contractors to
rebuild the new home. Before that, I spoke to about four or five different contractors to elevate it. Now, none of them would make a commitment that the home was elevated unless they do a $5,000 assessment of the entire property.
So, I got about five quotes to lift, assuming that the foundation was strong enough to support that lift. If you've seen, I'm sure you've seen the elevations going on around town. Um, they put these big hydraulic jacks under
the house and these big beams and they lift the whole thing slowly up. However, our house was built in 1969, and I've just shown you the the uh data that supported the substantial damage,
which said 10% of the structure is >> I'm not sure what super structure is, but the I guess your foundation's 5%. So, >> so sidewalls, like sidewalls, >> that's the superructure, >> trusses that are sitting on top of those sidewalls, things of those natures. And
just for the record, I am not a contractor by trade in any means, but I am an expert when it comes to this >> and superructure. I can only make my own interpretation, but it sounds pretty critical if you ask me. The superructure of the the home um so that was damaged
5% and the foundation was damaged 5%. So, um based on that, we were substantially damaged and that's what brings me here to you today. So, the terrain modification, as I
mentioned, gives me 3.2 3 foot2 in. And so, I'm asking for an additional 4T 10 to put steps. By the way, the rest of the setbacks of the proposed structure are all within where they're supposed to be. I'm simply asking for steps 8 ft
into the 15t setback. >> Yes, Mr. I did I did have I I was wondering about the setback in the back cuz I noticed you have in the back you have the steps coming out and going to the side. All of those steps are within your setback. Correct. Okay. >> The set back in the rear
>> is larger >> in the pool. >> So, >> okay. >> And I can only go back five feet within the pool. >> Right. >> Yeah. I noticed there's a pool already there. So, okay. >> Right. So, we're keeping the pool. >> Okay. So, for Mr. Dallas and Marvin, I'll give you the exact definition of
superructure. the portion of the building or structure located above the foundation or base flood elevation, including all structural components such as walls, floors, roofs, trusses, and any other elements um above the lowest supporting member being the foundation. You're welcome.
Okay. So, here I've just given you an exhibit E, which is the actual city ordinance 2024-27, which was the ordinance passed in early 2025, but allowed for the encroachment
and the setbacks for any home that is jacked up and lifted. So again, I'm building a new home, but I don't have a choice because my superructure and foundation are damaged. Here's the terrain modification setback
adjustment factor. Uh, it's in the terrain modification manual, but it's just a detail of it says that I'm allowed to have stairs not more than 8 feet wide and I can have them 3 point or
3'2 in deep into the setback. So, some of the supporting considerations. So, while these are not ordinances, they do contribute to my hardship. So, Isisle of Capri, aisle of seventh street
on Isisle of Capri is a unique situation as far as I can tell in all of Treasure Island. Seventh Street is wider, excuse me, wider than any other street on the tree
by 10 ft or more. The reason for this, I happen to be, as I mentioned, I'm an engineer. I'm a history buff. I'm a research buff. So, I wanted to figure out why. So, I did some research. And if you go to Seventh
Street on Isisle of Palm, you'll note that there is a huge grand median with grass and trees and and so on. Isisle of Palm was built before Isisle of Capri.
The original intent was to mimic Seventh Street on Isisle of Capri, to mimic Seventh Street on Isisle of Palm. And they even had talked about putting a bridge across what I call the Grand Canal, which is the canal that goes between
Capri and Palm. However, somebody came to their senses and said, "Wait a minute. All these waterfront homes are going to want boats. If we put a firm fixed bridge there, they will have less access or
maybe no access at all. So, they shelved the bridge and they shelved the center median on Seventh Street on a Capri. However, they did not change the easements or the rightway.
So on seventh street from the curb to my property line is approximately 35 feet. On all of the other streets on Palm on Capri, it's 15 ft from the curb to the property line. So
on fourth, fifth, and sixth, your front steps are going to be 30 feet conceptually, if they're not within the setback, 30 ft from the curb. On aisle of Capri on my lot, I have a
35- ft easement and then another 15 foot setback from there, meaning that the house is 50 feet from the curb. So, if you were to allow me to put the steps in the front, the steps will
terminate at 42 ft from the curb. On all the other streets, the steps are 30 feet from the curb. So, I am well within what is normal and usual for the rest of the island. in fact had
who the city at the time when they decided not to go with the center median on seventh street on Capri had they reverted to the easements on the rest of the island we would not be having this discussion
today. Any questions about that? >> Well, I will make one quick comment. And I went out there the other day with my tape measure and uh I just differ a little bit on your numbers, but I see where you're going from. The actual
pavement width out there is 32 feet with a twoft curb. So you're in the ballpark. We're not talking >> about 30 35 somewhere in that range. >> It's 35 32 foot wide road, but if you throw a curb on each side, then that makes it 36. But I just want to point
that out. I did go out there and with a tape measure, but uh I see where you're coming, so we're okay. >> I'm saving my questions for the end of the presentation. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Sanchez. >> Thank you, Mr. Harris.
So, here is an example. If you look at this picture, my house is circled is in red and that's Seventh Street. The street to the left of me is across the the canal. That's sixth street. If
you look at the easement lines between the two se uh streets, you can clearly see that seventh street itself is a lot wider and the se the easements or rightaways are much deeper into the
property than they are on sixth street. So this is what this is one of the premises of my discussion. So, here's my house explicitly. I don't know if you're aware of this, but on Penllis County Property Appraiser, there's this cool little tape measure
feature where you can just click on two spots. It'll tell you what the depth is. So, here you see that the depth from my property line, which is the big white line going in front of the house, is 35.1. And that was using the Anellis
County Property Appraisers website and their measurement tool. And then the red dotted line is my easement. My 15t easement goes to the red dotted line. So I am asking for
8 ft into that setback. >> I think you mean e the setback not easement. >> You're right. You're right. I just caught myself. So the 35 ft is the easement and then from there to the red dotted line is my setback.
And I can assume the city's not really taking care of that yard area in the front on that easement. Right. >> Mr. I have to mow that lawn, maintain that lawn. >> That's what I figured. >> Water that lawn. >> To make clarification on that, it's the homeowner's responsibility to take care
of the right away in front of their house. >> Oh, I'm well aware. I just uh you seem to have a bit more of it than others. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh please proceed. >> So, did you have a question, Mr. Harris? No, not at all. We just uh hate to say
this, but believe it or not, we've got to move along because there's a city commission meeting at 4:00 in this room. >> Okay. All right. So, here's an example of with the tape measure for Sixth Street to show you the the delta there. Here's the current home. And all of the
information that Mr. Harris just referenced is right there on this survey. That's a 32 ft street. 35 foot from the curb is my property line and then 15 ft from that is the easement of the setback.
Here's the proposed home. So you can see the steps in the front there. They will encroach eight feet into the the setback. So summary statement, I've mentioned the
the the 2024 27 ordinance. I've mentioned the terrain modification setback. And I've also discussed the differences in the easement rightaways on all the other streets that are different from
Seventh Street. So, some of my hardships obviously are Hurricane Helen and Hurricane Milton, which is something that we all went through. All the residents of Treasure Island are dealing with the same issues that I am, including yourselves that live in Treasure Island
has built character in the residents of Treasure Island. So, another topic that I want to address is cost. I'm retired. My wife is working part-time. We moved here, sold
everything in Maryland and moved to Florida. And you know, we're on a fixed income. I had money set aside for retirement. Well, that money is now going to be used to build my new house. It's not something that I anticipated.
So, I've had to look for ways to save cost. So, one of the ways I can save cost is to buy pre-planned designs for a new home. So, I searched exhaustively to find a home that was pre-built. You've probably seen these websites. You can go
there. It's got a thousand different designs. You got to pick the right one. You see the dimensions. You see what the house looks like, some illustrations and depictions. And I can buy those plans for $2,000. And then I have to spend another $7,000
to have them signed, stamped, and sealed for the Treasure Island permit process. So that is approximately 9,000 versus paying architects, and I spoke to about five different architects that wanted 50 to 70,000 to design a home. So if I want
a custom home, it's going to be 50 to $70,000 versus 10 or nine. So the cost is certainly something that is of a concern for a retiree and a wife that works part-time. I am
also have filed the paperwork to become my own general contractor to hire licensed subcontractors to do the work on the house. So I will simply act as basically a project manager and all these subs will be licensed insured and
you know licensed to work in city of treasure. I also had to find a house that was going to be somewhat close to the current footprint. The current house is 2525 footprint. This is per F Penelis County Property Appraiser. The new house
is going to be 2543. So, it's just going to be a twostory structure with garage underneath and living space on one floor. So, it was an exhaustive search to find something that met that criteria.
A personal statement is just from my heart. We love Treasure Island. We love the people in Treasure Island. We love our neighbors and we have one neighbor here today. Uh and you know what? Through the course of two hurricanes,
it brought the community closer together. uh we discovered the compassion of our neighbors and we had gratitude for the help that they provided for us for the moral support that they gave to us. So a personal statement is we love
Treasure Island. We love everything about Treasure Island. We don't want to be forced out of our paradise found homestead in Treasure Island. We're still shell shocked from these events. were living in a rental a
renting a rental home about four blocks from the house. As part of the process, I had to go through flood insurance claims. And because the house was substantially damaged, they gave us the max, which is 250,000. And you're probably aware that whether your house
is worth 5 million or 1 million, the most you can get is 250. So, I got the 250. The rest of it comes out of my retirement fund. So, as I mentioned, the new house is 2543 versus 2525.
Here's the current house. We're keeping the pool. Here's the new house. So, those steps, everything on the h on that house is within the setbacks except those front steps. Now, I've investigated, can I
move the steps to the side? What can I do? Well, because of those two little porticos on either side of the front door, I can't get steps up from the side and those those columns in front of the house are right on the setback line. So,
100% of those front steps goes into the setback by 8 ft of the 15t setback. Here's a couple other pictures of the house. Now, keep in mind this house is a pre-planned house. It was actually built
down near Port Charlotte. I called the owner. He gave me the grand tour of this house. So, we actually got to see the house. It's cool cuz he bought the plans before we did. Here's another picture of it. And I just
want to end it on one personal note that today I stand before you as a humbled Treasure Islander asking and appealing to your human element,
your human emotions and compassion. Throughout the past several years, my wife and I have had the sorrow of death. We lost two fathers. But then we've had the happiness and joy
and rebirth of a new baby granddaughter. And we see those fathers in that new life. We've also had the depression and sorrow of sickness and disease.
So, I had a heart attack two years ago. Doctor said I was minutes from death. My wife has been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and recently still recovering from skin
grafts from melanoma cancer. But we are in awe of God's miraculous healing. She's almost back to 100%. So, we're in all of that. As Treasure
Islanders, we all experience the devastation and tragedy of two hurricanes in a month. Within a month, September 11th or September 26 and October 9th, just a few weeks.
And through that we all experience compassion, gratitude, empathy from and to our neighbors, our Treasure Island family. As Treasure Islanders,
we are strong. We're resilient and compassionate. Together we will rebuild and we will recover. Together we will overcome this adversity.
Today I ask for your assistance as we begin the road to our new beginning on our road to recovery. >> And thank you. and we're going to uh I hate to cut you off, but like I said earlier, we do need to move on. I know you're almost done.
>> Thank you very much. >> We got a couple of questions. I'm going to start out real quick. All right. This is for uh stairways only. >> That's right. >> One of the conditions that I'm looking at if we approve this is a condition for stairways only. You will never ask for
anything else and you will never build anything else other than stairways. You agreeable to that? I'm agreeable to that and that's all I'm asking for, sir. >> Okay. And Ross, I understand you had a question. >> Yeah. I I um I guess I'll start because
I'm sure I'll be the the bad guy on this one. Um and a great presentation, you know. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um if there's anyone that could on this board that can probably relate to your situation, it's me. Identical. um where
I think we're going to run into some problems and I knew that and I appreciate you calling out what has previously been approved for lifted homes. I knew eventually this was going to come up at some point. Um, there has been applicants prior to you that did
not come for a variance that went through the the uh building department asking for similar things and it was denied and they've already started their building contracts whether it's the stairs or that's the air conditioning what the the Duke meter platforms. Um,
you know, I'm definitely going to struggle to be a yes on this. I I truly am and I do apologize because I I do always try to find a way to Yes. Um couple of the questions that I had from you because you had mentioned that you were investigated from the steps
perspective and you had spoke with some architects. So on the plans, and I'm not trying to interrogate you, but from the plans that were presented, how many architects did you take them to and say, could you modify these steps to get me from this level to the thing?
>> Approximately five. >> Approximately five. Yes. All five said it can't be done. >> And again, I'm not trying to interrogate you. >> All right. Then let me clarify my answer. I not sure that I understood the question properly. So these are shelf
plans, correct? You had said that you had scathered the internet for >> That's right. >> Stock plans that you could just drop on to to a parcel. >> That's right. And mind you, >> the sader design, >> I am not I am not a builder. I am not an architect. I am not an engineer, but I am a Treasure Island resident. And I am
going through this exact same type of process. I've actually explored everything that you've done there. Explored everything from a lifting perspective with contractors. I've explored designing a custom home, a stock home of of the tmi, everything. Again, not my not my sole responsibility
as my occupation, but being on this board and being educated and living through this experience and also sharing with my fellow board members. Um the stock plans that were presented on this application, you you said that
you had investigated with architects on modifying to put stairs in that would be inside the setback. >> So let me clarify that. Mr. Sanchez, >> I found these plans online and when I found them, I was not aware at that
moment that the steps were not included in the footprint that was presented to me on the Seder design website. >> Okay. >> I called Dan Seder. He said, "Everything in that house is included in the footprint that we've provided to you,
which is all within the setbacks." He said, "Except those stairs." So, at that point, I had already been investigating and what I had done was I took these plans and there was plans you could download on their website even before
you paid for it. And I g I took those designs, so it's apples to apples, and I handed them to probably 15 different contractors and uh asked for a proposal for what it would cost to build this house. At that time, I did not know that
the steps were not included in the footprint that was provided to me until I made that phone call. As soon as I found this out is when I started this process for a variance request for the front steps. >> Okay. So, I'm sure you're aware that
variances just in general are very difficult. Um, they're reviewed by this board for to see if a hardship does exist. Um, and I know that someone will probably also make that comment. Um, great presentation. Again, I'm a little
Your statement about $50,000 to $70,000 um for a 2500 2600 foot home. A little bit on the higher end. >> I was shocked as well. >> A little bit on the higher end. Um I I know that's on the higher end. I I know it is.
>> Okay. Um, so again, they I know that you said that you searched the internet. I I'm just going to be it's very going to be tough for me to vote yes on this solely because it is something that we knew that was going to come up when we did the initial ordinance and you're
you're talking about this street. I get the street. I get the setbacks. I get how it was designed. It's going to create some other other types of requests that are similar uh from a stairs perspective. Um I don't have any additional questions at this time. I
don't want to take too much time, but thank you. >> All right, let's go with Marvin. Your question. >> So the plans that you presented, um were these the plans that the homeowner that you visited used to build his home? >> He built that identical home.
>> Okay. And so those weren't Dade County, right? Those plans. >> It was in Placida, Florida, which is on the coast. I think it's called Charlotte County. >> I know where it is, but I'm What I'm saying is you talked about building to
Dade County uh Dade County specifications in your narrative. >> Yes. >> I don't think those were Dade County, right? >> I can't say that for sure. >> Okay. But I can tell you that in my research, um, Dade County obviously has
the most stringent I get that laws or construction. I understand that. So, >> I will be building this house to Miami date, including the Miami Dade glass. >> U, I'm going to fill every cell and the concrete block. >> That's not my point. My point is
>> that you mentioned that he went through a hurricane Ian. I think >> unstable go through Ian, >> right? And from what I can tell, I don't think he built to to Dade County. Did you notice, Richard? Could you tell from those plans or not?
>> I really didn't pick up on that. Doesn't really matter. I mean, >> well, it does matter because my point is why spend the extra money to build the Dade County specs when this house was unscathed with Ian and you're spending you're spending that money. You're also
I noticed a a raised concrete floor. That's a big expense. >> Well, Marvin, you're getting into the weeds. >> Well, what I'm saying is >> we're talking about a variance. >> I get it. But he's complaining about his his expenses, how expensive it is to do to build a custom home. And I'm saying
you can save money on building that home and pay for those >> architectural fees, build custom, and build within the setbacks. So, I have a hard time saying yes with this, too. Although I understand where you're coming from, but I've got issues.
>> Well, thing is economics doesn't come into the issue at all. >> And for this is for you, Ross. Each house stands on their own. The uh but anyway, Grant, you said you had a >> question. >> I did have a quick question. You did uh
comparatives between seventh and sixth, but I was curious if this variance is granted and the stairs extend into the setback. How does that compared to the homes along Seventh? Are you now going to have the house that extends farthest out towards the street? >> Ju just the stairs.
>> Just the stairs. Correct. >> Just the stairs. >> Just the stairs. >> The stairs are now going to extend further beyond any other element of any other house on Seventh. So luckily I have my neighbor here today and as if I recall correctly your steps
protrude a little bit further as well don't they not? And you've got a variance request for those. >> Yes. >> Uh we'll come up with public down from two doors down >> presentation >> and your steps extend out further than these would.
>> No >> we'll have public comment after the city presentation. Please, let's finish this up. We got to move along. >> Let me ask this gentleman. Will your steps extend out further than any other on the street? That's my question. >> I have not gone with a tape measure and
measured every one of them. >> Okay. >> So, I felt a little weird about that because I don't want to go in front of someone's house that I may not know and get out there with a tape measure. >> Fine. Thank you. >> So, I'd like to address Mr. Sha Shavelin's question or statement. Is
that Mr. Shavelin, after you've lived, which we all have, my wife and I were there when the storm hit. You say, "I want to build the strongest possible house that I can. Can I afford it?" I don't know.
I have not gotten pricing for the additional cells being filled for the concrete for the additional window uh res uh hurricane resistance from Miami date. When I get those quotes, I may have a change of heart. I won't change
the look of the house, but I could use cheaper glass. So, it the cost is very much a consideration. If I can afford it, I want a strong house for the protection of my wife and myself. >> I mean, I think our codes are we have good codes.
>> Yeah, we I mean, like like I said, we would want that for you and your family as well. Unfortunately, they're it's >> well most of most of the state of Florida adopted the Miami date code anyway. It's in the Florida uh code.
Thank you, Mr. Dallas. If we could have the city presentation now. >> Do you need to look up here? >> Uh yes, I got you. >> Okay. Do we know who this is? I don't know who that is. >> I guess he'll grab this.
>> All right. >> Hopefully he'll introduce. >> Yeah. While we're getting set up, I just wanted to introduce myself. If you haven't been here earlier, uh I'm Louis Cerna. Uh filling in for Jesse Miller, and I'll do my best to uh fill his shoes
today. And I'm sorry, you're a city employee or a >> contract employee. So as needed >> and you've been working as a contractor for TI and not you're not just here today to fill in for >> No, no, it's been years. We've had a relationship for years. So
>> just seeing you for Thank you. >> Thank you for your services. >> Thank you. >> Let me just move this out of your way. I have to keep the only one. Grant in review of like just like Google Maps. I mean, I don't see anything
that's like >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. So, as you know, this request is for a variance to allow the 8 foot wide stairs uh to encroach 7.9 ft into the 15 yard front setback.
This aerial of the house that you've seen. Uh the property has a land use of residential urban and it is zoned RU75. Um so the subject property contains a or contained a house or contains a house. The applicant is seeking to demolish
this house as you heard uh to construct and meet the current flood elevation standards. And as you heard uh the structure will require stairs to access the first habitable floor which are proposed to extend into the ride ofway or into the setback rather. Uh this is
the existing survey of the house. Um you probably can't see it but it shows uh the current house is 15.2 ft from the front setback line and the rear is about 40 47.4t 4 feet
uh to the rear. The proposed will would uh structure would still be 15.2 ft uh in the front with the stairs uh encroaching into the setback. Uh the rear uh setback would be
reduced to 44.9 ft. So uh we reviewed this for the criteria for variances. uh as you're familiar with section 70-221 and I'll go through our findings briefly uh the first is that the variance is in fact a variance
as set forth within the land development regulations and within is within the province of the board or commission based upon the opinion of the city manager or his designate. So our finding is that this request uh is set forth in the land development regulations and
under the purview of the planning and zoning board. The second is special conditions or circumstances exist which are peculiar to the the building structure or land for which the variance is sought and do not apply generally to the building
structure or lands within the same district. Uh you heard the uh the testimony about the um building having to be uh the new building having to be elevated. Um the applicant also cited the the right-of-way width along 7th
Street South which uh is 100 ft wide. Uh 60 ft is a typical rideway width on Capri Isle. Uh the wider than typical rideaway width generally places the 15 foot minimum setback 20t further back from the roadway edge of pave pavement
which would reduce the visual impact uh of the proposed uh variance. Note however that the lot depth and buildable areas along 7th Street are not reduced as a result of the 100 foot ride ofway width. Uh this unique circumstance does
apply to all properties along 7th Street East on Isisle of Capri. Uh and as I think the question was raised, um this would result in the setbacks or the bu the stairs extending further into the setbacks than the other properties along
this roadway. Three, strict application of the provisions of the land development regulations would not permit the applicant reasonable use of the building structure or land. Um, strictly speaking, this uh this house did contain
does contain a single family residence. Uh the applicant is uh would um strict application of the setback standards would require the applicant to move the building 7.9 ft closer to the waterfront setback which would not require a
variance. Uh the proposed waterfront setback is 44.9 ft while the minimum waterfront setback is 25 ft. The applicant could also reduce the proposed building size slightly in order to accommodate a portion of the exterior
stairs to access the second level. Uh another alternative to the encroachment would be to design a switchback staircase that parallels the house uh for the last run which would require a smaller variance request. So u basically there are some other development
options. Uh fourth, peculiar conditions and circumstances existing or not the result of actions by the applicant, the applicant's agent or the applicant's predecessor and title. Uh our finding is the variance is a result of the applicant's design of the proposed house
which includes the proposed encroachment. Uh number five, the variance proposed to be granted is the minimum variance that will make possible the reasonable use of the building structure or land. As I mentioned in my previous comment, the applicant does have the uh option of
moving the house closer to the water uh or reducing the size or redesigning the stairs. Uh so there are some other options uh that would uh make our determination that this is not the minimum variance. Oops.
Number six, owing to special conditions, a a literal enforcement would result in unnecessary hardship. Special conditions to be considered pursuant to this section of the land development regulations shall include but not be limited to the following circumstances.
Redevelopment, substandard lots, neighborhood character, public facilities, architectural and/or engineering considerations. Uh this is a redevelopment property. Uh there there was a house that existed on this side and as you know the elevation uh does
require stairs to access uh the lowest habitable floor. Uh this is not a substantial substandard lot. Uh the neighborhood uh consists of single family structures where p which were primarily built at grade and on and on
or close to the setback lines. Uh this variance would however allow the stairs to be further into the uh uh setback than the surrounding properties. Uh public facilities that's not applicable. Architectural and or engineering
considerations. Uh the requested variance is uh related to the design of the stairs. Uh as we indicated uh we've noted that the proposed stairway setback is not the minimum necessary to permit access uh for the proposed structure and
the applicant can move the proposed structure or redesign the building or stairs uh to meet the setback requirements or require a smaller variance. Uh number seven, granting of the variance will be in harmony with the general intent and purpose of this chapter. uh the granting of this
variance uh will not be in harmony with the general intent and purpose of this chapter uh because as we stated earlier uh it does not comply with the uh other criterion. Uh and then granting of the variance will not be injurious to the neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to
the public welfare. Uh the granting of this variance will likely have minimal impacts on the neighborhood and would not otherwise be detrimental to the public welfare. So our our recommendation based on those criteria are is for denial uh for the uh
7.9 ft encroachment into the front yard. Uh based on the analysis of the criteria of section 70-221 above finding that they have not been substantially satisfied and that unnecessary hardship does not exist at this as this request could be minimized
by redesign. Again, our recommendation is for denial based on uh the criteria of section 70- 221 and section 6835 F2. >> And I'd be glad to answer your questions. M
>> Okay. Who has questions for the question for the city? >> It's a Mr. Na. >> Cerna with an S. >> Oh, Cerna. Okay. I just wrote it down. Um by any chance, hard question. Um, are you in the report? Were there any other variances that you could find on 7th
that were up and down that street? >> Yeah, that were on file. >> Not to my knowledge. I did not do that specific um did did not do that specific research, but this is sort of a unique case. >> Okay. All right. I'm good. I actually have a solution for the applicant. So,
I'm good. I'm I'm good. >> Mr. Um I really a question about the easement on this on 7th Street on Capri being 100 ft versus mean the rightway >> or so sorry right thank you right away uh being 100 feet versus typically 60 on
the rest of the island. Is there any purpose to that 100 foot rightway being that large? >> I I I heard the history uh that the applicant mentioned sounds reasonable but I don't know of any reason why you'd want a 100 foot ride ofway. I I don't think this road is ever going to be
widened. >> So, it's your opinion that that 100 foot right of way is not actually wouldn't be required if you were doing it today. Is that your opinion? >> Correct. Yeah. Typical rightway in residential areas are is 50 to 60 ft. >> Okay.
>> It is oversized and the urban legend, I don't know if it's true or not, but it is out there. I've heard it is actually go from Capri to Palms all the way to paradise. And I I sure you have no there's no nothing no plans to do anything with that right of way uh that you're aware of.
>> Yeah, not that I'm aware of and I doubt that there would be anything there. And then one thing that I'll just add, not a question here, is just a comment that Seventh Street on Isle of Palms has the um median and a larger, you know, the two streets
are separated, but the city actually does take care of the lawn area and the landscaping on that right of that part of the right of way. um which is a little different in this case where you have all of the residents taking care of you know the right a larger right of way
than what is the others are taking on Isa Palms or or Capri so it's just an interesting situation on that particular street that's all >> okay Marvin >> on number five you talk about uh the size of the lot would permit the
proposed building footp footprint to be moved closer to the waterfront rear of the property without requiring a variance, but that doesn't take into account his pool, does it? >> I I don't know if it's possible to move the building 8 ft closer to the pool. He
does have some separation. Um I know there structural >> sounds like it to me, but I just wondered, >> yeah, we >> makes it sound like it's you can do it, but >> it's it's an option, I guess, to be considered as is reducing the size of the the building itself.
I've got an easy solution because I've lived through this exact scenario. I will say a glass half full approach is it is a rectangle lot or a square lot which is a lot more is it rectangle? Yeah, like it's a rectangle. Um when it comes to the footprint as we all know
lots in this town can be different across all the different communities. I will tell you, I understand that you're wanting to use stock plans, but a simple, you could talk to the architect or even themselves, is you can actually remove the stairs in the front and create a foyer on the ground floor that
you can walk right under the balcony into the foyer and then because you automatically have stairs that are inside your foundation floor. So I can tell you from my experience in designing a house that we tried to do this and a lot of times we ran into the stairs cannot go over the setback and we
actually came to the conclusion that that is the route that we are going to go because we didn't want to burn our front area um just on stairs. So again I know it's a little bit of an edit. I'm sure that these plans looking at it there's already stairs in the garage
floor that go up. I know that if you rem looking at that picture, you could remove those stairs. You could walk in the foyer down below and you're inside your house. >> And it probably wouldn't have to be moved eight feet. You're only talking about moving it four feet because there is the >> No, no stairs on the front in general.
You create a lobby. You >> Oh, you're talking about doing it that direction. I I was thinking just in general pushing the house backward. Okay. >> But you take the stairs off. You make the balcony in the front right underneath it. >> You got a front door. You enter your foyer. There's already stairs there in the plains. You're inside your house.
>> It's called a foyer that's inside your garage. >> Just an idea. Not an architect. Just an idea. >> Denial. >> Well, wait a minute. We're not We're getting ahead of ourselves, Marvin. We're not to that point yet. No, it's
not yet. He's talking. Anyway, the situation is Any other questions of staff? >> No. >> Seeing none, >> not at this time. Yes. >> All right. Seeing none, we go to uh the public. We have no cards. I know there was a neighbor that might want to sit.
You need to fill out a card if you're going to speak. Do you have anything to say? We'll take that as a no. Anyway, Mr. Dallas, here's your time for rebuttal. If you would like to approach the uh podium, don't speak from your seat.
Approach the podium and uh say what you got to say. >> I I would like to say that we have pretty much looked at every option again to modify the current house. This is a you know home that's pre-planned and pre-engineered and preackaged.
Um the first question is yes. Why don't you move the whole building back 8 ft? Okay. >> Or four >> cuz you >> feet wouldn't be enough for the stairs. But the problem is, and it's a unique situation apparently because there was
another ordinance change by the city of Treasure Island that has told me that when I demolish the house, I don't have to demolish the pool. >> And that was an exception for this storm situation. Apparently, normally, you have to remove the pool.
We are going to have to put a deep foundation into this house which requires those 10-in diameter telephone poles to be pounded with a big machine into the ground possibly up to 35 ft. >> Right. >> And I am being told that that pounding
can be felt two houses away when they're doing it. And I spoke to an engineer about this and he recommends that we keep the house as far away as possible from that pool. They accept no liability if that pool is cracked because they're
forcing these these pilings down. They said, "What we can do is we can pre-drill the hole so the pilings will start a little easier until they get down below the pool or the water the water table." So, I just wanted to say that we have investigated moving the
house back and we didn't want to get too close to the pool and that was a recommendation of the foundation folks. >> Um, the other thing is Mr. S Sanchez, you had a great suggestion and a great idea. Um, if you take away the front steps as they are now, you take away the
character of the home. We selected that home to mesh with the character of our neighborhood. The character of our neighborhood is old Florida. And so we selected a coastal Key West style versus I have seen a lot of new
houses going up that are the squared off things and they they look like a bunch of boxes stacked up in some regard. Uh they don't have the character of the Key West Coastal style which I believe and my wife and I believe matches the
character of our neighborhood. Um and remember we were trying to match the square footage. If you put those staircases inside, then you've taken away 4x8 32 approximately square ft of walking space with inside the house.
Figured 8 foot 4t wide inside is what you talked about, right, Mr. Sanchez? >> In the garage floor, it's called a foyer, >> right? But then they have to they have to go. You already have stairs that go up to your
>> There's there there's stairs inside the house that go up and there's stairs that go down from the front landing inside the front door. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. I have one letter. >> I got a question, Richard.
>> And I have a letter and I'm going to read it and then you can ask a question. to whom it may concern. It's from Jonathan Fuss. Regarding the variance at 117007th Street East for the 8-oot setback extension, I believe this should not be granted. When I purchased my house, I
had to abide by the rules for setbacks and had to build my garage due to a twoft setback overage. A few years after purchasing, I asked if I could get a variance for about 6 ft to extend my garage. I was told that that fell in to the required setbacks and they wouldn't
approve that either. So I never applied for the variance. Everybody should be treated equally. Jonathan Fuss 11 950 Fifth Street East Treasure Island. Make note that it's on Fifth. Go ahead, Gary. And then I'll finish my comment.
>> Thank you. I'm sorry. So that's on that that letter is from someone on Fifth Street, not >> not Seventh. Fifth. >> Seventh. >> And that's part of my point. But go ahead, Gary. I want you. How far are you going now with your geo study having to put your >> How far down did you have to go?
>> I I have not had that done yet because the recommendation from those contractors that do the foundation work recommend that the house be the current house be demolished first and they take those cings where the current house sits. >> That looks good.
>> You you could consider hilly foundation and move that thing back. >> We're talking about a variance. We're I've been told to get move this thing along cuz we got to get out of here. Well, >> we don't care about the damn pilings. >> Can I Can I Can I make a comment?
>> If as long as it's about the variance. >> It's about the variance and it's about the way we're handling this variance. I I just think uh our chair is trying to cut this off when it in a short way. I think we should be allowed full discussion. This is a pretty important thing. >> We're going to have full discuss. >> City council has to wait 15 minutes for
their meeting. So be it. Well, that's fine. Let's just keep once again I will say we are here to talk about variance, not foundations. >> I ag I agree with that. So, let's just >> be a little kinder. Thank you.
>> Go ahead, Marvin. I disagree with you. The the city is saying that we should not allow this because it can be redesigned. That's pretty much what I'm saying and that's what Ross is saying. And I think they're
right. And it it may be an easy fix if you get the right architect because Ross's idea is great. >> So, any other uh questions, comments? With that, we'll close the public hearing.
And if you would have a seat, public hearing is now closed. We'll have a discussion. I'm going to start it out just because the one thing that I keep coming back to on this one is this urban legend and I'm going to call it that cuz God
knows it was a stupid idea to build a bridge from Capri to Palms to Paradise. But there's no other reason for this road to be 100 have a 100 foot rightway. With my measurements,
the stairway would end 39 ft behind the back of curb. The reason I'm talking about this guy's letter on fifth is cuz he's on fifth. It's a 60 ft right away. Same situation. The the uh stairs would terminate 23 feet from the back of curb.
16 ft difference. I mean, to me, it's one of these situations where if it had been a house and you wanted to build a house 8 ft closer to the road to get more square footage, the answer is definitely no. I've been a consistent
for my 12 years on this 15 years on this board or how about 11 years on this board saying setbacks for additional house area definite. No. especially they went into the sidey yard. Uh backyard,
not so much. Front yard, I don't like that idea either. I have had a history of turning those down. This is stairwell. And quite frankly, if you look on page 21 of your packet, I happen to like uh
the grand staircase look. And that is my situation along with the fact that that's a 100 foot rightway. I just don't think it's that big a deal. It's one of these things and I was scolded for using this term earlier, but I'm
going to do it anyway. No harm, no foul. What's the big deal? I mean, I know it can be done, Ross. I know it's hard to prove a hardship. Matter of fact, there's no hardships at all in this town, but it's one of those situations where we all had a hardship when we got
beat up by storms. It may happen again, but I think this house looks good compared to some of the uh garbage that's currently being designed in this uh city with the way of sugar cubes. And I know that we do not take uh
architectural design into account, but once again, I like somebody who wants to build something nice. So, that's my reason for support. Uh any other comments? Go ahead, Chris. >> Any other comments? Okay. >> I don't have any comments. I was just
making sure that if I make a motion, then I don't want to cut anyone off. >> Yeah. No, I have comments. Um first, uh you know, um Mr. Dallas, thank thanks for your very good presentation and the heartfelt you have the heart you have and your wife have for Treasure Island as as we
all do and you know you have been through a hardship as most of us have um to varying degrees. Um it is a hardship for you to have to rebuild this house or you know actually you re build a completely new house in your case and you're not able to ele elevate. Um the
city and this board together have done a number of things to help those that are elevating their houses uh to allow some encroachment into the setbacks. Um and unfortunately we we didn't make I think some amend amends for those that are
having to rebuild. That is part of the hardship. It is costing you more if we if you have to make any of these changes. Um, I think you're in a very unique situation because you have you're what you're asking for is not even 8 ft. You're really asking for four feet into this right away since you get you get an
extra four close to four feet because you're elevating u under the TI TMM rules. So, you know, you're asking for for this 4T and it's a special situation where the right of way is much larger. I think it's already stated by staff that
in terms of changing the neighborhood, you're not really changing uh having minimal impact on the the neighborhood character as a whole by just going four feet effectively into that setback because you have and I think part of that is true because you have a 100 foot
rightway in this case. I'm not proposing that this board move to change that right of way across the board. I think some compromise and and amends to reduce the hardship on the Dallas's um as Richard has has mentioned to possibly
have some criteria on this that just if we were to vote to allow this just for the staircase that it would be only for that staircase and that it would not allow change anything in terms of future building on that particular lot or have
impact on other lots up and down uh 7th Street. So that's where I kind of stand on this one. It's just, you know, I understand the hardship. Don't want you to have to rebuild your pool. You're already in a hardship case. It's just going to add to it. So I think this is one of those times where this board can uh have a little bit of discretion and
uh allow a small amount of setback or encroachment into that. Thank you. >> You know, the one thing that I do want to clarify is this rightway kept hitting me in the face. I mean, the difference of 39 ft behind the back of curb to the
terminal of the steps versus 23, it's a 16 ft difference if this guy lived on uh sixth or fifth. I went out there with my tape measure to make sure I was seeing it right. My wife usually thinks I'm nuts, but went out there and
measured it all just to make sure that uh it was correct. And it is. It is correct. So, in this case, a little leeway needs to happen. But like I said before, this board generally
does not grant any variances for enlarging a house. I don't like that at all. And my comment has always been the same. Customize the house to fit the lot. Don't try to modify the lot to fit the house. >> I I think we're all under hardship. I don't just don't want to make it any
more of a hardship than it already is on you um for this minor thing. Anyway, with that, any other comments? >> None here. >> Whoever makes the motion, what I would like to do just to keep it helps keep the profusion make a motion for approval
with the condition that this will be a stairway variance only and only eight feet wide. And of course you can vote against it, but it it's always hard to say yes or
no. It's if you vote or if you make a motion to approve and then say no, then that is a definite no. Do you have any problem uh vice chair if you make that motion for me? >> Yeah. >> Or anybody I'd be happy to make a
motion. >> Go ahead, Chris. >> Okay. I I'll make a motion that uh uh we approve uh variance um 0000535-2025 uh with the condition that it is only applicable um as stated within the
variance for this front uh stairwell and will not um be applicable in any other way. >> Okay. Motion by uh Christopher Downing. Could I have a second please? >> Second. second by Gary Patensiano. >> And just to clarify, um there's no
precedential value to a variance across the the the neighborhoods because by definition it is a specific and unique facts circumstances. So you can add the condition for that property if it's rebuilt, but you don't need to add any language related to other properties
because you can't really it's not >> right. I was only adding the language. Just wanted to clarify that point for just in general if there was anyone who had questions about that because the variance is very much a case by case situation. >> So if they rebuild then that variance will be in effect for the stairs only.
>> Correct. That's the way I've I've measured it. Yes. >> God forbid this home were destroyed and wanted to rebuild for this home. >> Right. Correct. Because it's Yeah. It's um the variance is being granted for specifically the stairs and and not for the extension of the building in general. And that language should be
reflected in um if if passed should be reflected in the minutes and in the um paperwork that the city provides to them >> so that that variance can run with the land for a future >> with that tia. Could we have a roll call vote?
>> Valerie. >> Gary Patensiano. >> I think it's a minor request. Hi >> Ross Sanchez. >> No >> Chris Downing. >> Yes. >> Grant Smith. >> Yes. >> Marvin Shavelin. >> No. >> Richard Harris.
>> Yes. Thank you board. That uh passes 52. Uh go get your building permit. Anyway, moving on. Sorry to be pushing along. I kept getting told to get the heck out of here because they're having an emergency
meeting. That's another issue. >> I know this way. We're supposed to they asked for me to get out of here by three. >> Regardless, public comment for non agenda items. >> We're going to have a meeting of the
city commission to talk about the train modification manual at 4. I will attend. If y'all want to attend since we heard so much about it, stick around. Reports and comments of city attorney staff and board members. Staff already told me they didn't have any comments.
>> I have >> I I like to go on the This is Go ahead, Marvin. >> I was just wondering if we could have at the next meeting we could discuss development orders um and how they work,
how they we can benefit. We may have one coming up with the hotel and I think it' just be a good conversation to see what's the best way to approach it. >> So basically overview development orders
101 and different legal options is that >> right and do we need to have guidelines set up? Do we need to be talking about guidelines or you know or do we just wait until they come with with plans and then we you know so I just think we ought to talk about it. Um, is that the
>> So, the desire of the >> comprehensive plan review that was submitted on a previous application, I think is now back, >> right? I know it has another I know it has another reading. Correct. I get it. >> I also at the same time, it was part of my notes was Kimley Horn was approved
from a budget perspective in the second to last commission meeting. Um, and I love that the consultant just stood right up and walked right out after the approval when we had all the stuff following right after it. Um, not in this meeting. So, was Kimley Horn do we know if Kimley Horn is going to be
present at our next LPA meeting? I would have thought they were going to be present at this meeting, >> the one we were they were supposed to be here today. So they're they've been late >> and we had asked them to present this month because >> and they didn't obviously she had to get
>> I don't know why we didn't have a meeting. >> Well, they they they had >> my understanding is that they had to get the commission's approval for the additional work that Kimley Horn provided in RFP. So now that that is approved >> and you know everyone's on this Kimley
Horn train, whatever, right? But part of updating our LDRs >> got to have that. Yeah. >> The comprehensive plan has to be done first. So, and I know that and I would like to hear if we can give some feedback to Kimley Horn prior to their
presentation to us about LDRs. I want to make sure that they are well aware of what is going on in this city to where they come here and they are not surprised in regards to what we have pending whether it be an ordinance or a project because that is important in
regards to how we are continuing to move forward. I know that a lot of us have questions whether it comes to impacts. Um but I think at the same time we're all collectively here trying to say how like Martin was saying how can we help get this thing going um because right
now we're not going and it's we're and I not trying to go to fast pace. I'm just saying in general we need some guidance um from that. >> Yeah, I'll talk to them. I I know the the scope of work um the the first step in that is actually a joint workshop between the LPA and commission and we
are right now just finalizing a date for that. So I was going to mention it but we don't have the date nailed down so I was going to let you know after the fact but it will be next month. Um and it will include all you guys and the commission. Um that's the first step on this one. So >> so that's why we didn't have an LPA
meeting this month because we're still what the next step is that joint meeting. I that's what >> we I didn't have anything to bring for LPA for ordinances or anything like that and we just got the contract approved with them. So, we're still working on details on what that means. So, >> um I didn't have any ordinances or anything for LPA. So, >> okay. Thanks.
>> But I I will be getting back with you guys very soon on the date for that. So, um >> I'll probably send that in the email when I shoot through the projects. >> Will Joan be in those meetings, the LPA meetings? >> Yes, she should be part of it. >> Okay. So my ask to the city and to the
staff is moving forward when there is something from this board that goes to the city commission that Joan or someone from city staff presents that to the commission. One of the most recent things that we talked about on this board with that went that we voted for
it to move forward went to the city commission and only the applicant stood up and presented the their case. >> There was no feedback. whatsoever from Joan, our economic developer. So, I don't know if I have to make a specific ask or request, but I thought in that
moment we really let ourselves down by not having Joan present how this can impact or how it can't impact because I think that that's a lot of questions that are out there >> as it looked like it was an applicant pushing all the development.
>> There was zero city zero city input. >> I would second that. I don't think you have to make a motion for that. Yeah, I just you're asking and I think >> I'm kindly asking for Joan and I don't know. Um, so I mean that was one of the that was one of my topics today consensus. If there's objection >> I don't think there's any objection to that, right?
>> You would do a motion but if there's consensus of the board that you want that then that can be >> because these these things that we're deciding on or that we're putting in front of the commission, the commission is deciding on are impacting business development without question. and and obviously the business development
that's out there and the funds that can come from it, whatever it may be, she is talking to those people and it would be great to have her feedback as those things are being discussed amongst the public through a staff member with the commission that's that's in place.
>> Okay. Yeah. I'm not like screaming at you. I'm just I think a lot there's people that are passionate about this town. I'm one of them. And so I'm not like being disrespectful. I'm just saying like >> I thought it was really awkward that no staff presented any type of feedback to the commission. And one of the thing
comments I'll be quick you know one of the comments is we do have a comprehensive life genius plans what we do not have is an economic development plan and that's what a lot of folks are looking for what's going to happen and how does it get done economically and
the good thing is I mean the guys at the uh Thunderbird have enough money to do their hotel but uh not I mean there are potentials out there we've heard them all the private public partnership ship the uh >> there's lots of opportunity,
>> TIFF financing, that kind of thing. >> City owns a lot of waterfront land, you know, >> and they do. And uh I will say this uh Chris, I actually had lunch with the uh community um not community public works
director. God. Anyway, he did a nice uh drawing because he knows AutoCAD of that area and it looked good and it included private development on that piece of city property. So there are potentials and there are possibilities. >> Did you tell him to come in for a site plan for his fence and his warehouse
that he put on 108? >> Supposed to be temporary. Ross supposed to be >> Can you share that with us though? The what you what you have from the from him? Can >> I get it? >> Oh, you didn't get it. >> I saw it on computer screen. >> Okay. >> I'll ask him for it then.
>> He just Well, I'm not sure he wants to release it. It's just his idea. That's all right. accommodate things and it's just his idea. >> We're talking about Gary, right? Pardon me. The public works director. >> Oh, Gary Vol. I mean, you know, the thing we're talking about the same guy. Okay.
>> He uh I mean, you know, it's it was his idea. >> Yeah. >> But has it gone any further than his idea? No, we need not to my knowledge. Anyway, moving on. The next meeting is October 16th. Hope we all can make it
have some more fun. Anybody anything got from anybody else? >> Point of clarification. So we did you guys want the development order overview and how long do you want that to be? Roughly 5 10 minute. >> That'd be good. >> Sounds good. Everyone >> sounds good. We will and thanks for coming today.
>> Thank you. So >> anything else? >> Amazing view. You know >> October 16th. >> Yes. >> Okay. And 2 p.m. planning and zoning. And then >> 2 p.m. it sounds like we're going to have a P&Z meeting. And uh if we can have an LPA cuz we need to move we need
to move this city forward. We all agree on that. I mean right over there is our central business district. It's a disaster >> and there's no doubt about it. Let's move. Let's plan on this board helping any way we can to move this city forward. And with that, let's have a
motion to adjourn. So moved. So moved. >> Second. >> Thank you guys. And sorry about trying to push things along as Part: 2
probably not. I'm not very good at comput. Good afternoon and welcome to the special meeting commission meeting for September 18th, 2025. I'd like to call this meeting to order. And now, if we could please stand
for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
City clerk, would you call the role, please? Good afternoon. Vice Mayor Vasquez, here. Commissioner Clark, here. Commissioner Sison, here. Commissioner Dicki, here. Mayor doctor here. Thank you. All right. And we are going to call
public comments. Now, if you're going to say something, please fill out one of these forms uh before we finish with the uh the comments. Looks like there is about six of them. And uh the first one is Rhett Carl
Carlton. Carlton. Thank you. Okay. Commission, mayor, city attorney. Um, I'm kind of here to sort of finish my statement from our last meeting. What I've circulated and you guys have in
front of you. This is basically just a demonstrative aid to kind of help move uh the the process along with changing this LLM. And I don't know if you guys recall, but I got two permits uh uh issued based on a drainage
plan. Um and uh I copied all the drainage plans after that. And then I've gotten denied based on all this stuff. So what you guys have in front of you is a denial and it show or one of the comment letters is sh if you look how
extensive it is. It starts on I think page two and is four pages of comments. Um neither here nor there. Uh what you guys have in front of you is basically a stack that's in green that says approved. So what I've got is a drainage plan that was approved for 2090 Kansas.
It's one page that's in the city of St. Petersburg. Uh look at the top right that's stamped by the city. The next one I have is my own personal home. Uh 4522 Clearwater Harbor. That's a one-page drainage plan that was approved by Penllis County. Uh the stamp is on the
top left. Um the next one is 154032nd Street East. That's also a one-page drainage plan out of Madiraa Beach. Uh then what I have is 19 Paradise. Uh this uh municipality did not like my
one-page drainage plan, so they asked me to put it into four pages. Um admittedly, there's a scrivener's error. It's D1, uh, D101, D102, D103, and I missed D104. It's mislabeled. It's now D105. So,
basically, what I would respectfully submit to you is that this four-page drainage plan is the ex is the same thing as the onepage drainage plan, but it's broken down into four pages, so it's not as cluttered and it's a little easier to see. And again, this was
approved by the city of Treasure Island. Now, um, the very next one that was approved is from the city of Sarasota. And this is something to pay attention to because the whole point of all of this is is drainage and flooding. Well, if you look at this project, this is an
actual elevated driveway, unlike the projects that we're doing here in Treasure Island. And uh it's also a one-page uh uh drainage plan. Now, what I have denied here is the same exact drainage plan that I submitted for 19
Paradise, but I copied it for, you know, the the style, if you will, for 112405 Fifth Street East, and it was denied. And here are the comments that are based on this denial. And it's just it's overly burdensome. And we all know the
intent of this is to protect homeowners, but this is procedure over purpose. It's not protecting anyone really. Great. Thank you. I think this would be a good road map for you guys to maybe work on this uh this drainage plan issue. Thank you.
All right. Next up, Alonzo Milan. Uh how's it going? My name is Lonz. Uh I was here during his past meeting uh in preparation for this discussion kind of to reiterate what he uh already said. The intent is not for us to point out
this is what this community is doing. When can you do the same? It's just to point out this is how they have addressed kind of like the same issue. uh in Sarasota. I wanted to include that project because the point of uh drainage page is to show that the grades uh
either if they're changing, how are they changing if you're creating a hydraologic effect to adjacent properties or um how are you prepare like how are you draining or preserving the property itself. Uh in this case,
this is one of our only four projects that we actually alter the grade of the the structure by actually just having a ramp driveway. But for a majority of our projects, it's a 12T elevation typically and the existing grade remains the same.
So for us, it's kind of like arguing that what are you doing with the grade? It's going to remain the same. What about the water? it's going to be doing the same thing it was doing before because we're not changing the grade. Uh so kind of like a moot point coupled with
the revisions that we got on that four-page drainage page that by far is the most um more more extensive side of drainage plans that we've had to submit to any any municipality. Uh it's basically
asking elevations of seaw walls, elevations of uh provide a puvial flood plane boundaries of the city's website if applicable. And I understand if there are a couple of lines that it's if applicable if applicable if applicable. But when you
receive a a a revision this extensive, you have to go and do your due diligence to see what is is that if applicable. So for us, it's kind of the irony of this is that the intent of the uh project or
TMM is to help with flood plane to help with um mapping the conditions basically of Treasure Island. But in of itself, that's kind of like the only thing that is going against getting a permit for a flood mitigation program or I mean a
flood mitigation uh project, which is the elevation of house. Um, I mean, as as we're going out, like the gentleman mentioned that we're going into the um one-y year anniversary of the damage. Uh,
more than that is that we're going into another hurricane season. The majority of these homeowners are on hold, waiting on us because of the fact like I don't want to redo my house because I don't know if I'm going to get flooded. I want to wait till my house is elevated so I can redo this this house because
technically what I'm spending here to raise my home. That's all I got. So to to just keep it short, I think everybody agreed last time that you're trying to keep your community here. Um and the
only way to do it is by creating a clear path of getting there. Uh so I mean I hope that with a couple of these uh drainage plants or by any means if you want other plans uh it would kind of
facilitate how everybody else is addressing the same issue that you're having. Thank you, Richard Harris. Richard Har here, 374 Bay Plaza. Over the last month, uh, I have been working with Gary Volinac, uh, Jackie Gabriel,
and Mary Ellen Edwards. We have come up with a document called residential lot grading policy for new home construction and accessory dwelling unit located in infill and redevelopment lots. What that
was is a revision of what I sent to every commissioner. It was a lot grading document from Orange County, Florida. I don't know if you remember getting that, but anyway, we changed it so it's now applicable to Treasure Island. The nine
conditions that the LPA came up with for the uh terrain modification manual are still in place. The one most important one is a signed and sealed drainage plan uh must be provided signed and sealed by
a Florida professional engineer. What we want to make sure of is that the city staff does not think that they need to be the backs stop for these professional engineers. It's their responsibility to make sure
that that plan works. It's their work. They need to make sure they're signing that ceiling. They don't if they submit crap to the city of Treasure Island, they should be turned into the board of professional regulation, but it's not the city's job to hold their hand. Uh,
one thing that I have uh gotten involved in is helping people out. Uh there's a fellow named Kia right now. I can't pronounce his last name. I am trying to help him get his house raised over on Capri. Um I'm here to volunteer to help
the city take a quick look at these uh grading plans. I got plenty of time now that I'm retired. Got the documentation. How many uh permits are in, you know, applied for but have not been approved. I think with
my help and the fact that we're going to put the onus on those professional engineers, not the city staff, just take out the fact that they need to farm it out to an outside engineer. That has been the problem. Ardan Dicki and I said
the process is the problem. It's becoming worse and worse. I mean, poor old Bianca is the intake clerk. She takes the permit in. first thing she does is I'm not an engineer. I'm going to send this to whatever engineering
firm. And it's this back and forth and it's just not working. Uh we take the onus off of uh the outside engineer. We put it on the guy who's doing the work and that's the way it needs to be. That's the way it always has been. I'll
make a quick analogy. I submitted a set of plans to city of Barto. They rolled them out, stamped it approved, rolled them back up, handed to me. I said, "That's never happened to me before." And they said, "Yeah, it's you. It's on you. We're not your uh babysitter. That's what the city of
Treasure Island has to do." And I'm just here to help. And I'm throwing my two cents in to let's get these people back in their homes. I mean, it's a little rugged when you hear the statistics of uh how few permits have been uh approved
since May. Thanks. Done. If you got any questions, you got my number. Thank you, Richard. West. Thank you, Mayor West Evans. Isa Palms. Uh I just wanted to come up and remind the commission that it's was six months
ago that this was passed when uh this room was full of people asking you not to pass it because it was full of errors that were going to hold up construction. It was done to make things quicker. It didn't do that. And I just want the
commission in the future to maybe keep this in mind when other things come along where we think it might help, but maybe there are people who deal with this stuff in our community for a living and they're telling you uh this isn't the best way to do things. Let's maybe
hear them out. Keep that in mind. Thank you. Thank you, West. Now, moving into uh still public comment, but uh comments on today's item. Mark Hoey,
if I could, Mayor, I was hoping to speak after as is typically protocol speaking after there that commissioner discussion before your vote. Okay. Do we have anyone that's wants to speak on the topic of the raising of the
homes and the uh now and do I I have cards for all of those? Um, and what is your name? Tom Smith. Tom Smith. Okay, come on up, Tom.
Uh, Tom Smith lived in India Rocks Beach. The, uh, I know it was in good faith that you guys didn't want to drain water on people's property and set this whole TMM thing and not you couldn't I can't as a builder not even understand how ridiculous that was. It meant well.
What we do uh since 19 I built thousands of homes all over West Central Florida. What we do is we use a private provider. They do the plan review and they do the inspections. Before that, I pay the architect. It goes to a structural engineer. Then it goes to the surveyor.
Goes to all these people that look over the plan and make sure the drainage on top everything else is right. Then the prior provider takes all that. He checks it over doubled. goes into the city and now we've been bogged down two months in the city. Everything was on
that blueprint. The the the surveyor had all the elevations on that. The house is we had all the elevations shown where the water drained. The whole thing is ridiculous. It just has to be stopped. This TMM thing is is just not right. So I could go through the craziness that
the whoever did this thing for us did. I won't waste your time with that. What I will ask, hopefully you're going to vote get rid of this thing today. U I would even recommend you don't even do that for commercial work. I've done shopping centers and other junk like that my whole career also. We never have
anything like this. Never anywhere I've ever dealt with. But uh I I respectfully request that if you pass this today, my customer has been waiting for two months after we went through all those other approvals by all the licensed engineers that we get his permit tomorrow so I can
start his house. Absent of that, let me start digging the footer. Nothing happens until I dig the footer and then no inspections until all the steel is in. Let me at least get started to help this individual out. He's one of your obviously citizens. Last thing I want to
address while I've got a few minutes left. The Elevate Florida program. Terrible program. Was written terribly. What I'm going to recommend, I did talk to Bobby about this before the meeting. You've got 300 people have been rejected. those that have been accepted aren't going to get their house built by Elevate Florida. I promise you that. I
won't get into details. I would like to ask this committee or whoever does that if they would just set one of the meetings for November so we can have the 300 families have been waiting a year. Now they don't know who the hell is going to build their house.
It could be the individuals here last meeting wants to raise houses. Fine. Some people want that. It might be the guy that's building the modulars on stilts. Fine. It might be companies like myself that raise the homes and build all conventional. Fine. I recommend that we try to get those three types of
people together and talk in this room or someplace else and try to assist people. Let them know their options to get their homes built. Certainly needs for them and certainly needs it to clean up this this city. So, I respectfully hope that you might get that on the agenda. Whoever we have to whoever gets to do that,
it would really help. I don't know. But the main thing I'm here for, I want that permit tomorrow to help my family out, please. Thank you, Tom. Thank you. All right. So, Ross, do you uh want to speak now or? Yeah, I'll go now.
Okay, Ross, come on up. Go a little one. All right. Here you go. Okay. All right. Hey guys. Um Ross Sanchez. This is broken. Ross Sanchez. Uh 44 Dolphin Drive.
Um my name is Baron Sanchez. Where do you live? Treasure Island. Yep. What happened to your house? Got flooded. Yeah. What's going to happen? We get we we buy a new one. Yeah. In a sense. All right. All right.
Good job. All right. So, just real quick, as you guys are making these decisions as well as future decisions, that's Treasure Island's future right there. So, um I'm not standing up here. uh for however this goes. It's it's perfectly fine with me. Um I know that there are a
lot of residents that are going through this. I am one of them. I feel like I'm almost an expert at this point when it comes to the seaw wall, the house, bringing in Phil, not bringing in Phil. You guys are familiar with my presence around the city. And um the only thing
that I ask you guys are going through this is just to think about the people that are right at the doorstep of submitting a permit. Like I've already paid some fees to get my stuff and I know people have struggled from drainage. Like my guys are telling me that like we're good. Like we're we're
moving. Like we've got it. It has been a headache. Yes, without question it has. But they did get through it. And if we are going to reverse that's fine. But just if you guys can make some thing clear for the folks that are out there that are already paid with their
contract or not contractor, their their architect already at final, like not submitted, but like I'm so close like 99% done to have my plans for our house because we got smoked like a lot of people did. So just just think about that. Again, I'm not for it or against
it. It's more of just like at your at your decision. and just think about the folks that are currently in process, not only the folks that are going to the future. The other thing that I just want to call out and I want to put it on the record is just policing this whole
future fill dirt situation. So, if you have somebody who is not building right now, there's builds going on on both sides of them. Let's just say they do bring in the fill dirt. What's the repercussions if the water is going onto somebody else's property? do they like
how do you prove that and I and I think that that's something that just needs to be re I understand that there's a drainage design that's submitted with the plans but there's also field there's there's something different when it comes to the actual field so just again enforcement I think is something that needs to be key because a lot of people
are wanting to do this so there's going to be people that want to do it because that's what's best for them there may be some people out there that don't want to do it because of cost or they're not familiar with the situation so that's the only reason why I wanted to be here today and Baron and I and my wife Laura I wanted to just say thank you guys for all your service. Thank you.
Thank you, Ross. All right. Um, does Harlon want to speak now? Thank you. Thank you. My name is Harlon Heshlo. I'm a general contractor Legacy Design Group. Um, I have four four projects in
for permit various stages and three more coming. So, and I also draw my own plans and draw the design. So, I'm very interested in this and I've gotten very confused by that. As a matter of fact, on one of my jobs, I set a private meeting up with the private the uh engineer that she submitted to and most
of the stuff that was on there, but I had that that in I resubmitted that almost a month ago. I still haven't got that back. What I'd like to do I from what and Jackie was kind enough to call me this morning because she knew I had projects in here that keep it simple. The whole fil the whole no fill dirt for
a long time. I never quite understood that, but I I I understand the concept of it because we need to keep the drainage on people's property, but you should be able to keep fil dirt within the parameters of the house, keep the natural grade as close as possible. I've been a contractor for 42 years. Pineelis
County is very flat, but most houses drain generally unless people have altered them. And I I get the surveys. The other thing that I'd like to point out, oops, excuse me, is that if you, and I know it won't have to do with this meeting, but one of the things every city wants to do is they want to do a
swale and they want to do a 6-in swale. Well, and I've had those arguments, so I'm blew in the face, but I I just make it work. For a swale to work, the bottom of the swale has to be at the top of the curb. And that's pretty much impossible on a flat lot. So, what what what I'd
like to do is point out, just make sure it drains it. I mean, you know, you you do drainage arrows and make sure it drains. Water will flow downhill. It doesn't take much. If you really do a 6-in swale, essentially, you're creating the retention pond on on the side of a
house and then you have to bring it up for it to get off. So, that's just something I mean, I know that has to do doesn't have to do with this meeting, but I wanted to bring that up because that's kind of been one of my bugaboos because it's just it, you know, math is math and uh and and and I appreciate
that that you guys are working forward so that we can get this stuff forward. Thank you very much. Great. Thank you. Okay, we will uh we've got two others, but they are for this uh today's uh agenda item.
So, uh we will close the public comment. And we're going to to go to our first item of business, which is the emergency ordinance 202523. Would you please read the title? An emer uh ordinance 2025
25 an emergency ordinance in accordance with section 3.10 10 of the city charter repealing certain sections of chapter 69, marine structures and commercial fish uh fishing and chapters 76 storm water and providing emergency relief
from terrain modification manual requirements providing for severability providing for conflict providing for codification and providing for an effective date which a couple of points of clarification. The effective date will be if passed tonight it would take effect um tonight. That's different than
obviously a normal ordinance that has a 10-day effect. Because of an being an emergency ordinance, it allows you to have it take effect immediately after passage. Um, one other point of clarification is that um, be Florida statute requires uh, because of it being an emergency ordinance for it to be
twothirds of the body, which for this would be uh, four votes. So, if you have any other questions, happy to answer those. But just wanted to clarify those procedural differences between emergency motions and regular ordinances. Okay. Just want to check the uh number on the
ordinance. It's 2025 23. I have 20 25 is the is the copy I have, but um do you have 20? It's 23. 23. Okay. Okay. That must have been an older version. So, this is Yeah. 23.
Okay. Okay. So, to clarify, ordinance 2025-23 and the same title is um in both. Great. Thank you. Staff, would you please Mary Ellen? Hey again. Um
so, pretty much a lot of what they can hear. Um so, basically this is continuation of what we talked about a little bit on Tuesday night. Um as we mentioned we you know we have a lot of applications that are kind of in on hold
um right now for this. We have several failing seaw walls. Um so we took a look through the code and um as you guys know in order to change the code we got to do LPA we got to do two readings of the commission. We also if we ch make changes to chapter 66 we have to send it
to the state before we can do anything. Um so that's going to delay the process but we know we don't have time right now. So, that was the reason we discussed the emergency ordinance with um the city attorney to see if we can move this through. Um it essentially, as I mentioned the other day, just it
doesn't remove the requirement for a drainage plan. It just it's not as stringent as the requirements are in the terrain manual. They will still have to submit a drainage plan as Richard mentioned. Um we've talked to Richard, we've worked with Gary, we've talked to um the Seaw wall contractors as well.
Um, so they're all uh helping us kind of kind of fix this. Um, we if this goes through, we're I just talked to Gary today and he's welcome to come up if he wants, but um we're working on a trying to figure out if we're going to just slim it down and then I can come in
behind that and change the codes, send it to the state, but we do know that's going to take time. Um, so I guess, you know, we're here for that. And my question to you as a commission as a whole, I I am aware that some of you want to repeal the entire thing. Um I've
talked to some of you that don't. So I think I need some direction on where we go from here. Um so that I can work with Gary on that. So I just I would like that guidance before we leave if we can you guys can talk about that and see what we want to do. Um, but I think
overall the the important piece is that we we got to get these applications through and approved. And Jackie and I are working on new checklists and we will get that out to the contractors as soon as we can if this passes today. Any questions for Marielle?
I have one. Um, if we repeal the entire thing, how would that affect those that are in currently in permit or like they're in the middle of building um the ones that um similar to what um Mr. Sanchez
said that are like right there ready to hand in their permit, how would that affect them? Would it start the process all over for them again or what does that look like? I mean, I can defer here to the city attorney on that, but my understanding would be that we would just start begin
to review it under the whatever we have in our current code. Um, I've talked to Gary. Uh, our I think he was going to look at it, but our current code is um I think strong enough at the time right now that we could review them under
that. Um, I think there need to be changes to it to to put basically all of the requirements are in the manual. Most of the requirements are in the manual. We if there's anything we need, we would need to move it over to the actual code itself, which we can do. It's just going to take a little bit of time, but I
think we're okay um to uh I got in trouble for touching the mic. Um I think we're okay to uh to review them under our current code. And you can correct me if Yeah, I I would concur on that. And when that the question came up, I was kind of looking into a little bit. And because
basically um there's a drainage plan in both, you could use the drainage plan that has been previously submitted. Uh and then moving forward, obviously even if there's a slight um change in the the the drainage plan, the old drainage plan would suffice because the new um
temporary requirements are lower threshold and so therefore a higher threshold would suffice. It's not really even a grandfathering in. it's it's a um that the standard was higher previously and so they would also um be applied to
the lower standard if it was uh the temporary measure was passed tonight. And one more question. So really the main reason the terrain modification came into play is because of field dirt. That was the whole purpose of it in the
first place. And we had many, many residents begging us to let them bring in fill dirt. And um so that was the original purpose behind it. Um where does that leave us with the fill dirt? Um if we were to repeal it,
it's still allowed. Um, you know, I wasn't here when when all of this started, right, with with terrain and and you know, I do Gary actually asked me that today if if it started as a public works project and my understanding is it is it started it came out of our strategic plan from our watershed management plan and it was a
resiliency plan looking forward and if we have Phil here are the standards for that. Um I we would still allow fill um under our current code, but it's the restrictions I think would just be be different than what's in our code right now. I mean, I'm not an engineer, so I
No, but that's good to know because again, the whole reason for it is because we didn't allow filter, correct? So, I just wanted to make sure if it was repealed that we would they would still be able to bring in Phil. So, that was really my main concern because that's why we did it in the first place. So,
thank you. I think there's uh some confusion here because you keep saying current. Our current code, our current code is the terrain modification manual including when I say our current code, I mean our land development regulations. You okay, but our the manual is an appendix to the code. When I say the current code, I'm talking
about our stormwater chapter and our previous our pre before the train modification uh was approved. Before that, we were not allowed to bring Phil into this thing. So if we repeal repeal the train modification at this meeting,
if we repeal it, how do we then suddenly allow Phil dirt in? We're appealing the manual. Phil is allowed in our regulations. Our regulations allow fill in certain zones up to a certain height. Um it's already in the code in the old code.
Correct. Well, it was modified when when the code and the ordinance were adopted. It the codes were modified at that time to allow Phil enough. Am I the only one confused on this or everybody else? It was, but I think it now.
So, previously chapter 66 was what had a fill prohibition in it. It completely said you cannot have fill. um when they made the changes within TMP, they took a lot of consideration of um the CRS program and other things that are
controlled by 66, which we've looked at from a single family perspective and a seaw wall perspective, probably not so much commercial at this point. Um, which is why we're recommending commercial stay in place. But from the single family side of things, Bill still says you go off the
requirements that are written within the code. All right. But again, I'm still confused. I I know if we vote for the ordinance that that's been presented to us tonight that we can move forward with the 49 permits that are in Q right now
that are that that everybody's here wants to wants to get approved and get processed and those will be some of those 49 have a fill component to it I assume. Right. Okay. So we can still do that if we if
we uh at the same time I think you want we're not here to vote on the train modification. We're here to vote on this. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. Thank you. And what that that basically is I don't know if repeal is the correct word, but the
wa we repeal those two sections, which is the seaw walls and the single family homes for these 60 days until we can make permanent permanent changes. Mr. Mayor, if I might just kind of clarify a little bit. So, there's two things that you guys have the
opportunity to do tonight. one, make a decision on an emergency ordinance that would give you a 60-day waiver. That does not make anything permanent. That by definition is a waiver. It's an emergency measure. It's a stop gap. It's temporary in nature. You could extend it 30 days but it's at 60 days you'll have
to make another decision then completely separate and should not be I mean yes it's very much around the same issue but a separate decision and discussion could be had on how do you want to affect a permanent change on these on the manual and moving forward. So those are two
separate conversations. If you repeal the manual itself would be waved tonight, but then you'd still have um the amendments to the chapter that were enacted in ' 66 that allow the filter, but the manual and the specifications for how you do that are being waved. Um
but then moving forward, the way you alter and and determine it that that's obviously direction for staff and I think they're asking for that. Does that help clarify? It does. Perfect. That's what I was going to say. It's not really a vote, it's a direction. Correct. Exactly. We're voting on one item and giving direction on another.
And that is a lengthier process which is why the there's kind of the the short range waiver and then the long range um updating and and improving and streamlining or however you guys want to do that that has to go to the state has
um se two readings a standard process that that is obviously you guys are familiar with. Um I I have a couple questions. Just trying to I I think everybody knows that um I think TMM is probably one of the worst thing that's ever happened to this
town since its existence. I think the heartache and pain it's caused a residents has been just absolutely terrible. Um and I think if if Harvard Business Review could do a case study on failing your residents, this would be this this this could be one. Um and I
don't put the blame on anyone any of the current staff. I think we had, you know, previous staff that did not want a simple field dirt ordinance. We had Bob Mitting, I think, start asking for a simple field dirt ordinance back in 23. Um, I think Ardan, we even asked for a
simple field dirt ordinance right before we got in. And let's just be honest, guys, the previous staff didn't want to do it. So, I I agree a little bit with the vice mayor, but I disagree a little bit where this was passed because we had to do it to get fill dirt, but but but
we really didn't we we could have gone with a simple field dirt ordinance if if if we would have been allowed to by the staff and by the town. Um because we had a multiple of very smart people standing up here at the podium saying we we we should not we should not be doing this.
This is going to be a disaster. And that's exactly what it turned out to be. One out of 13 applications for homes and seaw walls have been approved. One out of 30 permit applications for single family homes and one out of nine permit applications for elevated structures have been that that's beyond a disaster.
Um so my questions are this what I don't understand is why cannot why can't we resend this and until we can get a new simple filter or is in place just do variances for people
um until until we until we get the new simple f filer in I'm not sure of why the variance why wouldn't we we're working on the waiver for 60 days. Well, waiver for 60 days, but after that, why can't we resend this?
But we we can go back again another 60 days cuz it's going to take time for them to send it back to the So, you're telling me we can keep extending this until we have a whole new simple fil dirt ordinance in place? Yes. Yes. If I can, just to clarify, this 60 days starts at a a clock for the
emergency order, but it doesn't um doesn't mean we can't start working on our upgrading and or updating our current ordinances immediately. We can start those conversations. You We were already doing that, weren't we? Trying to come up with a simpler plan. Understood. But you know, this 30 days
too is going to actually provide almost a pilot for us to see exactly the changes and where they're making a difference and what we need to keep versus what is interfering with what the final product looks like. So after 60 days, if we're not there yet, we can continue for another 30, another 60,
whatever you prefer. But the maximum is 60 days on an emergency order. So, do we feel like we can have something completely new and simple in 60 days? I think that we can have something done efficiently and effectively if we know exactly what the direction is of the commission.
But again, don't come up with it in 60 days. I know you want the timeline on some level, but you can extend it, but you just can't it can't be permanent through an emergency ordinance this way. And that's um they don't want, you know, quick action to then be permanent. and they and you would have to review and
find a need again for an emergency and that kind of thing which I would foresee you would but that's the reason for the 60 days. Ultimately TMN would end up being no longer in existence if that's the direction we give them. Yeah. And and remember too the purpose of the 60 days is to get residents moving and
the permits moving. I hate to delay that by putting it through a variance process where it has to be heard and we're we're kind of repeating a process that we're trying to get past. So this 60 days allows us to repair these walls that are in are in pretty bad shape as well as
get residents back into their homes. Yeah. More questions. Clearly though, it would be a uh an issue for the uh the resident if we're going to not use the waiver because if it's going to go through a variance, there's all paperwork that's got to be
filled out. They got to attend. No, I get that. I I just I I'm talking about in the meantime while we have this in place, but but there might not be a need if we could come up with a new simple filter ordinance before 60 days. That's what I'm trying to say if we give them that direction here this afternoon.
So, two more questions. Every every single um homeowner that came to me with, you know, that ran into the roadblock with TMM, every single person said the same thing. I got to the TMN part, it got sent out to an outside engineer and that's where everything
came to a complete standstill. The outside engineer seemed like they were trying to just bill me hours and make money. So, there's no need for anyone to go to an outside engineer anymore or we're not going to send these to an outside engineer anymore. That's correct. We're not going to send
those. And uh when um Richard Harris speaks here in in a little bit, we'll uh we'll qualify that. Yeah. And just just to clarify that is the kind of direction that we need. If you want us to no longer send out to third party then you need to indicate you need to keep engineering inhouse. We
have spoken to someone who's offered to do that work. Um but those are the kind of directives that we need so that we have a clear understanding of where you want us to head 100%. And and I I would like to go one step further and say that AED can have nothing to do with any of this because
they created this issue. I tried to to get rid of them. I think the vice mayor is the only one who voted along with me to get rid of them and I don't want them anywhere near any of this because they are one of the causes of this and the the damage it's done to our residents is just horrible.
As is applied science. As is applied science. Yeah. Yeah. I 100% I would defer to the attorney or the city clerk on how you want to give the directives if you want to give them as you know five steps in a row and to and consensus agree to all of them or if you
want to do them one at a time but that is what is going to make us successful and give us clear um understanding of where we're going how we're getting there and serving the will of the commission and I think what we'll do is uh we'll we'll get the ordinance passed first
hopefully and then we will address each one of the uh the other issues I think that provides a clarity because then you can once there's a waiver in place now we can talk about the future but we already have affected change immediately one way or the others right so who who is this in-house engineer
that we're going to use um we are having conversations with Richard Harris who's offered to volunteer his services to review drainage plants um there is no definitive if you want us to go out to RFP for dingier my only concern is as a
volunteer, we need to be sure that there is some fee or contract included for insurance purposes. And again, I would I hesitate to speak even further than that because I wear two hats today as acting city manager and as CDD, I'd like to be Charlie Charlie to be here for that conversation as well. So,
I mean, I I like Richard a lot. He's told me multiple times that he can do one of these drainage plans in 30 minutes and they're so incredibly simple. But the only issue I have there is that he was one of the major proponents pushing TMM and that to be honest scares the crap out of me. So
again, that would be one of those conditions that you would discuss and determine as a as a board, I would suspect. Am I correct? Correct. Yeah, obviously the direction from the board on how they want to do that. And uh so again, you can do it however you want. One recommendation would be may like the mayor said maybe
vote on or determine the emergency ordinance and then have a discussion and try to come up with some consensus as much as possible or some overarching agreement on how direction for staff moving forward. So also I guess prior to TMM we still had to turn in drainage
plans right? So have we always sent those out or do we used to do those in house? Do we not do them in house anymore? What I guess that's we don't have anyone that can do that. I'm gonna ask Marielen to come up because she's been here longer than me. In the past before TMM, we would um
review drainage plans for regular seaw walls and single family homes in house. Commercial drainage plans and elevated seaw walls would go out to engineering for review. There would be a third party review as well. That was she just asked who reviewed it. It would either typically our building
official would do it. That was a little bit before me right as I came in. Gary, would you please like to come up? Gary Vanick, public works director. I wasn't sure if I was going to have to fill out a form or not. I' I'd like to be able to spend a few
minutes to talk about it because I I think there's a lot of of of we got the the community here. We've got builders. We've got staff. And um I I think that there's an easy way out of this. I I think that uh I've had some very constructive meetings with Jackie and
Mary Ellen over the last few days. Um I've met with Richard Harris on a couple of occasions and you know I've reviewed the the TMM manual and uh um again I I think that that during this waiver period we have
the time to develop a way out of this. a uh Richard and I have probably we've probably permitted over hundreds of projects, drainage projects, 10, 20, 30, 40 acres. There's nothing on this island
that could throw us a curve. So, we've seen it all. Um that, you know, Commissioner Clark, yes, we can come up with a simple ordinance to address fail. Um, we do have we currently have drainage plan requirements in our uh in
our procedures already. I think that the TMM just became a big because of its length and complexity. Um, I get kind of dizzy reading it myself. Um, so so I think that we can distill it down to something. It could
it might just be end up being a Treasure Island drainage manual or standards. We can we can simplify it. Um, Richard has volunteered to work with with CDD staff, but I I I think I we have in-house capabilities to review a postage stamp
lot to figure out if it drains or not. So, we can do that inhouse. I don't think we need to go outside. Um, we can train staff to help CDD. They can shoot it to us. If we can't review a plan in a few an hour or two, we we you know,
we've got a problem. So, I think internally we have the resources. I think you know the the you know I kind of I I told Mary Ellen I said you know public works is kind of the fault of this whole thing because we are the ones who brought terrain model to to the
forefront and so I feel like we should be helping to help you know to take the heat off of CDD any way we can. Again I I mentioned that Jackie and Mary Allan have been very cooperative and and we're looking to find solutions. So, I think we can make this happen for you. Thanks. Thanks for saying that. That's
all we've ever been asking for is a simple filter ordinance for couple years. That's true. Go back to again like with the trash. Uh you'll come in and save the day, I guess. Hopefully. So, I do have a couple questions on uh 25 2025-2023.
Um permits for me are a top priority, but I don't want any legal action against the city. Uh so how does this uh does this 100% uh comply with the state requirements and what about FEMA requirements? It does. Yes. Um yes, there's no no uh
apparent issues that of conflicting with FEMA or um state requirements and um state law allows specifically actually your chart your uh county or city charter um has a certain requirement on emergency ordinances, but we're
referring to the state um statute on that because it supersedes in uh for the twothirds vote on an emergency ordinance um waiver process. So, uh, can you foresee any legal challenges that we may face with this ordinance and what are the consequences if the legal
challenge is upheld? Um, I I mean, you can always face legal challenges. There's no uh apparent obviously um when you have greater complexity, you have a greater chance of facing legal consequences versus simplifying a
process. Um, and so I think that um you have equal or less uh legal liability if you if you were to um institute a waiver. But it it's hard to predict, you know, the future and who may or may not sue for what. But I'm trying to even
foresee who a plaintiff would be. I guess a plaintiff might be somebody who claims a drainage plan wasn't done properly. But if if like a neighbor perhaps, but again, that would be if there's certified individuals who are experts on drainage plans that are
reviewing it and signing off on it. And you guys also have um obviously sovereign immunity. So you have a certain cap on any kind of damages and that type of thing. Um so there's and there's notice requirements and it's it's fairly complex when it comes to suing government. Um so that gives you a
level of protection. Thank you. All right. Um, any other questions uh from for staff? Okay, then uh let's move on to uh we do have two
uh public um comments and the first one uh being Mark Hoey. Please do not touch the mic. He left a note. Thank you. Um Mark Hoey, District
3. Uh as a few of you know, I guess I've probably been to every commission meeting that had anything to do with TMM and its predecessor, Elevate TI. So we go back a couple of years following this
this uh rolling stone of uh regulations that came down and and and much agreed that it has been very problematic. We saw it. It was it was a train running right at us and yet we we went on
nonetheless and it you know we got what we deserved. I will say that uh I attended several of the LPA meetings in which um the group saw that as well and tried to within the limits of their capability
put some u controls on it should we say uh to to minimize the impact but they couldn't do enough just by putting conditions. It really could have would have should have been rescended or highly modified back then. So that's
where we find ourselves now. And I can only tell you, we've spent a ton of money. We being the taxpayers through the city have spent a ton of money to get where we are right now. And it's all going to be flushed because there really isn't anything worth saving in TMM. That
can't be done in a much simpler version and just put into our ordinances and let's move on. I do want to say I I do appreciate Richard Harris willing to uh participate in part of the solution in an interim basis. Uh while we've had
disagreements over some of the policy things, we recognize he's a solid engineer. We recognize that he has been willing to move things along as quickly as possible. He's not going to be a drag on the system. So, I I'll at least speak
in that regard that I think that's a good resource we should tap for the time being until we can uh push away the rest of the regulatory stuff. So, again, vote the way I think you will vote. I I can't imagine standing in the way of this, but
tr truly give uh the CDD director and the staff direction to dismantle TMM once and for all. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Richard Harris. Okay. Now, I'm going to speak as uh
chairman of the P uh LPA rather. When we started this whole process in December 2023, I said, "Finally, we can get rid of this stupid rule that says you can't bring a dump truck full of dirt into this city." you know, TMM. Did it get
out of hand? Yeah, we had an outside engineer that loved to hear himself talk and read a lot of words. We've summarized it. The LPA came up with the nine conditions. The nine conditions gutted the TMM. There's nothing much
there. What happened was, and Ardan Dicki and I discussed this many times, the process got out of hand. I'm seeing it every day. The staff takes it in, instead of reviewing it in house, they
farm it out to some outside engineer and it goes back and forth three or four times. This fellia, he resubmitted some of his plans, didn't get to where they needed to go. It was just ridiculous. I talked to another engineer who said, "Oh, we just have a
meeting with the applicant as they come in. We have what is called a redline session. We spend about an hour tell them what they need to do. We very rarely walk out of there without them having a permit. There's nothing really all that wrong with the TMM. It's all
there. It's the process. And Ardan, you and I discussed that a long time ago. We just are trying to streamline the uh process. But the got to remember back when this whole thing started, you couldn't haul in a dump truck full of
dirt. Now you can. I mean, if we even if we u get rid of the TMM, you haven't accomplished anything. The nine conditions did that. It's just the implementation of it became a problem. And it became a problem. And there's a
lot of reasons why, but I'm just saying that I want to see if we can help out and get these people back in their homes. I mean, I helped Darren Brown get his permit. I talked to Carrie McBride and got her uh helped in the right direction. This fellia whose last name I
can't pronounce. Trying to get him going. So, you know, let's just make it happen. That's what we need to do. Thanks. Thank you, Richard. Excuse me. Can I make one comment on this? I didn't know that we were allowed to make a pre comment and then a
statement. Please. Thank you. Um, thank you guys for having me up again. Uh, I just want to make two sort of comments. One comment was for the other gentleman, this guy right here, who
mentioned private provider. I've got $500 million in projects going on in home elevations. Every single project that I have with a private provider takes longer. Why? Because what happens is I'll have my engineer draw the plans. I submit it to Jackie and Jackie will
look at it. But now, if I have a private provider, I got to do my plans, submit it to the private provider, they got to approve it, then I send it to Jackie, and then even if I have a private provider, Jackie still got to take her month to review it. So, it's adding
another month by um a private provider. The other comment I wanted to make with regard to uh um how you guys do this this moving forward right the checklist of what should or shouldn't be in the projects is a bad idea because I have
personally been in this municipality and sat over there and I don't want to name names but I heard somebody said oop it's not on they missed the checklist this is easy to dump I heard her say this is easy to dump and it's a shame it's not my house thank god but that's the kind of mentality because what'll happen is
is you'll put all of this review on these ladies back there and and and and if if you give them an easy way out to not review it, they're going to kick it because it's easy to dump because it doesn't match the checklist. Thank you. If you could state your name for the record, uh just clarify for the minutes.
Red Carlton, Modern House and Building Movers. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Motion, please. I move to approve emergency ordinance 2025-3 repealing certain sections of chapters 69 and 76
as presented. Second. We have a motion and a second. Do we have any additional discussion? Hearing none. Roll call, please. Vice Mayor Vasquez. I. Commissioner Dicki. I. Commissioner Clark. Capital I.
Commissioner Sison. I. Mayor Doctor I. Thank you. All right. So, that's Are we gonna discuss the uh direction? Do we want to do that or do we want to do that as a workshop? I think we should do it now. You think we should do it now? I don't
I think the beginning of the direction would be helpful. Yeah, you're certainly able to do later to build out, but to to give some clear parameters out of the gate would be fantastic. I would like to start and I'm sure you're probably right there with me. Um,
I definitely the outside engineers I think definitely need to go away. That needs 100%. I'd say it's going to save money for the city homeowners. Make uh engineering in house. We uh get Richard Harris to volunteer as much as
he can and then in the meantime go out for RFP for engineering in house. So we have someone else in here. One point of clarification on the Richard um which I think is he's great and very talented. What I would recommend is ultimately he he not actually officially sign off on anything
that obviously city staff would need to be the one who does that but he can provide advisory almost like a consultant. Um but depending on how you want to structure and that's obviously up to you but I think it could be problematic if a a volunteer who's not an official city staff member is doing
the final approval. So that would just be a um procedurally ha have him advise and and assist in whatever capacity. Um but a city staff person be the one who actually signs off on the final plans. Well, so we understand I mean Richard is the qualified certified uh civil
engineer, he can review it, he can stamp it and pass it then along to the next person which whether it's Mary Ellen or Jackie uh and then so it stays in house but it still is one of our staff people that is moving it along.
And you could certainly do it that way. I think what would be helpful is to have him in an official capacity. What I got ready to say that's all I'm saying is employee he um the in between quasi like just volunteer and you could pay him like a dollar um or something
and then do a contract that way. Is that because that would be my recommendation. Best deal for an engineer ever because if something's challenged, back to Commissioner Sison's comments on on liability, you want to I'm trying to, you know, protect from that and making
him an official part is better than sort of like a come and go as you please kind of a thing. So, okay, I think we can abide by that. I think that uh what we can do is just as we were doing uh temporary employees and
that and we can I think they we can get HR involved well under the $35,000 threshold for an RFP um under the um acting city manager authority um financially to to execute that with your direction. So
can we also make you our full-time city employee from now on? I think we're already in a in a capacity, you know, with and we're happy, our firm is happy in the current arrangement. So, no, I'm not. Thank you. All right. So, I think that is a uh a
consensus moving forward with and what was the other thing of like getting rid of TMM and doing a new simple filter ordinance? Um, based on what I'm hearing from from Gary, Mary Ellen, and the team and the conversations that I've been privy to, it seems as though the manual
is the first thing that should be addressed. And Gary or Mary Ellen, if you want to provide input, I'm just trying to go in the order that makes the most sense. Well, I I I think I'd prefer to come up with a solution on how we're going to do
it. the TMM. Um, as Richard said, it it it was more the process. We need to come up with a good smooth process. Whether it's a reference document, whether it's referenced at all in the ordinance or not, that's we'll work through the next uh 30 60 days to to get all that, you
know, so we have a a permanent solution for you all. So, to your point, Commissioner Clark, I think the question is, do we repeal or do we replace? I mean I I just want any remnant of TMM to be gone
is that we make a recommendation for you all to repeal or replace and you know we have to come with something better, right? And that's that's what so at that point you'll decide to repeal or replace. So is there any further guidance like right now that you guys need to start
moving forward? Yeah, I just just it's like what do you call it? Uh the heebie-jebies from the past. like I don't want you coming back and telling us that we didn't give enough direction, you know, I mean that that's what used to always happen. So So can we get a report uh weekly um if
if something along those lines fits for it? I don't I don't see why not. Um I think maybe more realistic expectation is every two weeks so we could do a report as part of the commission meetings. Um I don't know how much we can certainly provide
progress weekly on what how the emergency ordinance is impacting our our process and moving things through that that could be a weekly report as far as the updates and the modifications. I think maybe more two weeks would be reasonable and I would defer to the team as well. Um I don't know that you're
going to see great leaps and strides every seven days versus every 14 days. Yeah. But I just want to keep it moving. We we've seen what what the government can do. Sure. So, so then the next requirement as I'm hearing from you is that we do weekly reports on the progress of the emergency ordinance and the progress
we're making under the emergency ordinance. And then the second part of that is that we give you an update at commission meetings on the TMM modification. Yeah, it I guess it seems like it's the chicken and the egg, but can can we come up with a new simple thing then
resend TMM and put the new simple thing in? I think that's what they're like suggesting. That is the goal along. So that's why I think we should progress. Okay. The the uh as far as the weekly updates or whatever, but when you say about the progress or h how how this is
working for us that that we just passed, uh we currently have 49 outstanding permits that many of which have go back to May uh that haven't been. So part of that updating process I hope would include hey of the 49 permits we now approved you know five
we would be identifying those specifically that have been able to move based on the emergency ordinance. Okay thank you. All right. So is that guidance wise is that get you where you can start moving forward on it or is there anything else
you guys need? I think that's that's good. I think they said that. Uh that's good. Can I be recognized for a second? Yes. Thank you. Um definitely this is something um it's been a topic of conversation. Um the people that have uh
come to the podium, everything from PNZ, LPA to um our last multiple um commission meetings. Um, and it's uh it's unfortunate, Gavin, that you're
here cuz I you do a great job in the couple times that you've been here. But, um, I want to, um, move that the city commission of Treasure Island immediately terminate the services of Mr. Sabatini and the Sabatini law firm
as city attorney due to the repeated failures to meet contractual obligations and a clear lack of professionalism that has damaged the credibility and legal standing of the city. Specifically, at the onset of his tenure, Mr. Sabatini arrived 20 minutes late to a scheduled
planning and zoning meeting, leaving the city without any legal representation. He has failed to maintain reliable office hours and when scheduled has repeatedly arrived late. demonstrating a disregard for both staff and the public. His recent legal opinions, including the
misrepresentation regarding the multimodal impact fee, interlocal agreement, and the city's obligation under the countywide plan along with flaw other flawed opinions have created confusion, eroded confidence, and damage
with our reputation with county part county partners, local planning agencies, and our residents. The continued engagement of the Sabatini law firm exposes Treasure Island to unnecessary risk, potential liabilities, and further loss of credibility. There
is no confidence in the firm's ability to provide competent, timely, and trustworthy legal counsel moving forward. Therefore, I move that the city manager be directed to immediately issue a request for RFP to solicit qualified candidates or firms for the position of
city attorney, ensuring that Treasure Island secures a professional, reliable, and ethical legal rep representation in both uh requires and deserves. Second.
We have a motion and a second. um when calling this emergency meeting um I I you know we had one target and I think we've we've accomplished that. Um I'm not disputing what you read and the
timelines and everything else but I I will say I don't think this was the appropriate time or the appropriate place in a special meeting. only reason and I'm going to be completely honest u and I I do understand I understand what you're saying um but it has been made
very clear even in the emails that we get that the public and we um have lost lost confidence right down to today um we found out 25 minutes before or I apologize I think it was an hour before the meeting that um Anthony was not
going to be here and um the meeting kind of got crazy on Tuesday Um, I'll be honest. I had completely intended on doing it on Tuesday and the meeting just kind of went rogue a little bit. Um, I completely understand, but I think
moving forward any longer literally puts the city at a liability because there have been poor opinions. again. Uh Gavin, I think you do an excellent job when you're here and and it it's unfortunate that you happen to be here
um today, but I think it seriously puts the city at a liability um to move any any longer forward with the Sabatini law firm only because you know we don't have another regularly scheduled meeting um
you know for another couple weeks and in that time a lot of decisions we're doing really important things like TMM different things um we have so much moving forward with land development everything else we have to be sure that
not only the staff and we can rely on an attorney's opinion on land development we also have to make sure our citizens um feel comfortable and it was very obvious um we heard it from the um the
last meeting and the meeting before last that they felt that even our vote was not correct and it was because um we were advised inappropriately by the attorney and you know it's it doesn't reflect good on anyone. It doesn't
reflect good on the city. Um it doesn't reflect good on anything if you can't depend on the legal advice that we're getting from the attorney. And that was to me made very clear. um we were all confused um on certain things that were
said, but the public definitely the trust was eroded with the public and that was made very clear in the last few meetings um with the um presentation at LPA and such. So, um I completely
understand what you're saying. I just fear moving forward with everything we have on the books, moving forward with land regulations and everything else, we have to have confidence um in competent
legal opinions from our city attorney. I wish that our uh our full-time city manager was here, not an acting city manager because I would like to know what his thoughts have been because he's been working very closely with our legal team and that that's uh that's
evident and uh uh but he was not Charlie was not able to be here uh because of a family emergency and um so I I I for one would really like to hear what he has said wants to say about um how it's been
working out. I understand how it's been working out in our understanding with the attorney um but you know he uh he is the CEO of the city and uh I'd really like to have his he is but it is our duty. I mean we have three offices that we
we hire and fire and that's city attorney, city manager and city clerk. And again, completely understand, but I don't know how we move forward with confidence in the decisions that are going to be made
um when the public themselves have already lost confidence in the decisions being made and we have to question the decisions being made. Um, Penllis County has made it very clear in their emails
that the decisions were incorrect. So, it's just it's it's believe me, it's it's tough. It's just let me let me jump in here. And I hate I hate doing these kinds of things, but I uh you know, our confidence in the in the
city attorney has been shaken quite a bit. Uh, and and just the difference between Gavin and Sabatini is very noticeable. Uh again, compliments uh uh to you. But uh and personally, I like Sabatini. He's he's perfect gentleman.
He's always been very responsive to me. But I have noticed so many times since he's been here that that legal issues have come up where he's been too quick to to offer an opinion as opposed to really know what the what the law is.
And he presents it in such a way that that he's presented as this is how it is. Uh I I didn't realize until after Jennifer Cowan left how important that role is. And we do have almost three weeks between now and when our next
meeting is. Uh cuz the first thing that crossed my mind when I heard you say that was, you know, who's going to be sitting there at our next commission meeting. Uh we have three weeks to do that. Uh uh there's never a good time to do it. Uh, mayor, I understand your your point, but I I I do think I think it
would be uh making the right decision if we decided to move on. Yeah. I mean, mayor, as a point of order, I again, I didn't think this was something we were going to speak about today or emergency meeting. I Yeah, I I
kind of side with with you on that. Well, I got reprimanded by Anthony today at 2 o'clock saying that I was causing drama when I had legitimate questions to ask and he hung up on me. So, yeah, there's that. And I also said
early on that he was the wrong choice uh at a commission meeting and I definitely miss Jennifer Cow's excellent communication. So, any other discussion? We have a motion and a second. Correct.
And uh so please call roll. Vice Mayor Vasquez. I. Commissioner Sison. I. Commissioner Clark. Uh no. Commissioner Dicki. I. Mayor Doctor. No. Okay. And that uh will be the end of our
meeting today. So we are adjourned.