All right, here we go. Good afternoon and welcome to the special commission meeting for March 10th, 2026. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Now, if we could please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> City clerk, please call roll. >> Good evening. Vice Mayor Vasquez >> here. Commissioner Clark
>> here. >> Commissioner Sison >> here. >> Commissioner Dicki >> here. >> Mayor Doctor >> here. >> Thank you. And we have uh one item tonight and that's all we'll be dealing with. Um what I would like to say is that uh the
uh once we open up the communications here in a second, this is a committee meeting within a uh a commission meeting. So uh we may take a little bit more leisure on our conversations that
going back and forth. Um and then uh we when we finally get out of the committee meeting then uh we'll be go back to the commissioner meeting which basically will be uh adjourned. So um David I'm
sorry uh Charlie well as you just uh noted mayor you're the evaluation team uh going through the next step of the procurement process. you've shortlisted nine proposers down to three as a body. Um, so I'd like Mr.
Green, our assistant director of finance, who's our procurement specialist, just kind of lay out the next steps. >> Great. Thank you. >> Good afternoon, everybody. I'm David Green, assistant finance director, and we are here as a followup to the
February 24th evaluation committee meeting for the commercial redevelopment master plan procurement. Three firms were shortlisted during that meeting and they are here today for presentations. As a reminder, those firms are Cotler
and Hearing Rafelis Financial Services and Calvin Jordano and Associates. The purpose of our meeting today is to complete a final ranking of these three firms and determine next steps. We'll have up to one hour to spend with each firm which includes their
presentation of no more than 20 minutes. Following the presentation, we'll move into a question and answer session where you can follow up on things you'd like more information about, including their written proposal. I do want everybody to get their questions answered, but there is no
specific amount of time allotted to each of you. So, please be mindful uh of giving everybody their turn. If you finish your questions before the hour is up, we'll go ahead and move immediately on to the next firm. Once interviews are complete, you can
then discuss your thoughts and even take public comment. But again, our intent is determine a final ranking and I will serve as timekeeper. Uh are there any questions before we move on? >> No. >> If not, I would like to uh call our
first presenter, which is Calvin Jordano and Associates, to the podium, please. Okay. give me a moment here to uh to just make a a couple of comments. >> Absolutely. >> Um I think that everybody knows why we're here. Um our city's long-term
survival depends on shifting from a a reactive and peacemeal and infrastructural repair to a proactive comprehensive and resilient long-term strategic plan. Uh, a master plan requires a delicate balance between enhancing resilience and
protecting private property rights and investments. And I think that that's uh um a a good reason to be here and a good cause. So, please >> we have hard copies. Thank you.
>> Why don't I start so we can keep going and keep you on schedule for this evening. Um, good evening. I am Jim Hickeyi. I'm the director of planning for CJ or Calvin Gordono Associates. I always say CGA because my old Boston accent can't say Girardano properly, so that's kind of what I do. Um, I'm the
director of CJ. We uh work with a number of communities in Florida. Uh primarily too, we work with a number of um coastal communities and we know from the last few years we've had a few hurricanes come through and uh you know our specific expertise is in there looking at rebuilding, looking at resiliency,
trying to um kind of preserve what you can but also look to the future um to um move the community forward. Uh with me tonight is Louis Cerna. He will speak as well as Jerry Debcowski. Um he will speak as well and then I'll close it. Um, I do have staff in the back too.
Todd, Paul, and Chris. Did I miss anybody else? And and Moan's here as well from I uh just a little introduction about CJ. Um, we've been in business since 1937. We have over 60 clients within the state
of Florida. Um, we have, uh, offices here in Clearwater. We also in Fort Lauderdale. U, we have a stero offices. Uh, we have folks in Weston. Um, one of the things that we think about when we look at CGA, one of the things I always talk about is that we have many different disciplines in house. So, we
have engineers, we have surveyors, we have traffic people, we have landscape people. So, down the hall, you can go and ask a question. If it's something that, you know, a planner brain can't answer, maybe an engineer, we talk to them about some of those things. So, that's something that we have in house um that we do. The other thing I always
like to say too is that we the majority of work I would say probably 95% of the work we do is for communities. So we either working with the community sometimes we're actually the planning and zoning department for the for the community as a whole. Um so we understands kind of how cities work and
how policy matters and how when you write a code you need to make sure that the policy folks understand and know what you're what what changes you're going to put in. Um, that's something we'll talk a little bit a little bit about as we go through as we go through a public process. We want to make sure that you as the policy makers understand
where the where the discussions are going and going back and keep going back to you to make sure that what we're going to propose is something that you all want to vote on and ultimately approve. Um, this is just a list of clients that we had. I just wanted to identify I think in the actual RFP we talked about
um Penllis County um the Belair's Bellair Bluffs Belair Beach Penelis Park South Pasadena Treasure Island um Readington Shores Readington Beach and St. Pete Beach would be just a few there but you can see there's a number of communities. A lot of these communities
as well are um coastal communities. So um again I talked a little bit about our technical expertise that we have in house. We actually have two consultants that are working with us. um one is infrastructure consulting and engineering or ICE and the other is Lambert advisory. We have worked with
both of these subconultants on numerous projects. Um so it is almost like we're just starting a new project. We come in, we we know what each um firm is doing, what their project is, what our goal is, and kind of how we mesh those together to get a product that's best for for the
city. So with that, I will stop my speaking and I'll let Louiesie come up and he can talk about the scope and how we're going to approach it. >> Yes, I know you've reviewed our complete scope and um are familiar with it, so I'm not going to go through it in great
detail, but just to uh tell you the our approach and hit some of the highlights, uh we recommend starting with the city commission listening session. And this is really to uh let you tell us what your issues and concerns are. we've read the the RFP, but uh really it's good for
you to get together and go over that with us. Uh and also to discuss our specific approach. Uh this is based on our experience. We found it's better to get these issues uh addressed at the beginning of the process rather than at the end uh because that doesn't work well. Uh we we'll also plan a project
kickoff with staff and this is for the purpose of uh discussing who the points of contact are, sharing data and discussing project deadlines. So we'll quickly go through the overview of the project. Task one as
we described is it is existing conditions constraint and market analyses. So we're going to do our existing conditions uh site analyses uh using Lambert advisory. We're going to prepare market analyses as well as population, real estate and market
trends. And the uh deliverable on this task will be the existing conditions and trends report. Task two will be the vision and guiding principles portion of the project. This will be a big task because it'll involve
a lot of community input, a lot of community engagement. We have proposed uh in our RFP the uh three community workshops. Uh one is a broad introduction of the project and two uh will be broken down by geographic area.
Uh this is uh an approach that we can discuss with you probably at our initial uh kickoff meeting with you uh and listening session, but uh that's just based on uh what we we're seeing and our recommendation of what's worked before.
So our community engagement approach uh this is one of our specialties and we've been doing a lot of uh community engagement uh very successfully. Uh we have quite a bit of uh tools that we use that we employ to get compete community engagement. Uh they're very hands-on,
very interactive. Um and so yeah, it's something we've been working on. Um two features that we uh that we like to promote is live audience polling uh and also real time 3D visual visualization
uh in which uh we can we can show in 3D uh alternate development scenarios uh live. So it's a lot of fun and a lot of good community engagement. Task three is our land use and redevelopment scenarios and feasibility. And during this step,
we will assess the development potential of each district based on existing development standards. Uh, one thing I think that sets us apart is we're very familiar with Treasure Island's code based on our hands-on experience. Uh, we're very uh aware of the unique
features. Uh, and I will say that it it is a very unique code. Uh, we're aware of the updates that have taken place dur since the storms. Uh and we're also very aware of uh unresolved issues and questions. Uh we we're also very aware
of how the city uh interacts with their plans with forward penllis uh based on our experience and we work very closely with forward penelis and other communities. Uh and so based on this, we're going to develop alternate scenarios based on community input uh
such as density, height, floor area, and uh based on community input and market data will provide alternate development scenarios from this task. And then task four will be mobility and parking. And I'll turn it over to Jerry Dabcowski to talk about this task.
>> Thank you, Louie. Jerry Dubcowski, vice president with infrastructure consulting and engineering. They gave me two minutes to talk my presentation. So, I'm going to take one of them to thank you for putting this city back to the beautiful way that it was. I live right up the coast. I had an 8ft storm surge
come through my property. I feel it. I understand it. So, let's get back to why we want to help you under task for the mobility parking. Oops. Uh, we're going to really take a close look at the parking. We're general consultants all up and down the coast.
I'll give you a perfect example. Little city of Dun Eden been their consultant for about 15 years. They're actually looking at three garages right now. Very similar to what Treasure Island is looking at. Two of them are developer driven. One is citydriven. So we understand that whole process how to
make that money work for you. Also, we're going to look at a lot of data. We know this is a tourist driven community all up and down this coast. I used to be one of them when I was six years old. So, but uh I just love this place. We're going to look at all the data. your peak season traffic can make
a huge difference on just Golf Boulevard right out here. So, we'll be looking at all that information and then the strategies. That's what's really really important working with CGA. We work together all the time that there are some awesome strategies that we can bring forward to get your parking and
your mobile mobility working to this area here. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Jerry. So I'm going to walk through the economic vitality in housing. I think one of the things is I think the market study is important and
we need to identify kind of what what actually can be built. But I think the second bullet is most important that we don't want the analysis we want it to inform the process and not necessarily guide the process if that makes sense. Right? We have to incorporate the economics with the what the public wants
and what you as the elected officials want. Um so we kind of build that in. One of the things we also do is try to um take that and do viable options. And that's through both the economic and as Louisie has said through the 3D rendering. You know, sometimes it's very important, I think, when people hear
about density and things, they get very up, very uh upset, right? Because they think you're going to have downtown Miami, and that's not what this community is looking for. But you have to show them what that's going to look like. If you don't show them, then it starts to get concerns about, oh my gosh, we're going to be too big, we're going to be too this. And I think
there's a balance there in how you how you um look to the future and try to make that vision work for the community. Um and then what the other thing we do is as we work with the 3D modeling, we have flexible um financial models to
look at that what could that mean? What could that build? Um one of the things we don't want to recommend with code and changes is we put codes in and it's great. There's a beautiful building but it can't be built, right? or it's not economically feasible to be built or you know they don't have they have livable air in the first floor. Those types of
things you know you really need to look at and make sure that that's um being done and then really looking at the cost potential because of course um one of the things you want is increased tax base. You want to look at what the cost of that will be to operate that as a city to understand what that really is
so you get the the net positive gain I think that you're all looking for. Um, and it really is looking at maybe there's options of uh public investment, maybe public part partnership. Um, city owns some land that may want to redevelop. That's something that you could look into and help uh kind of
balance the the uh proforma into whether or not that that type of uh use, whatever it might be, is something that the community wants. And then we want to just identify those areas. Um, and what I went through that
right? Yes, I did. Apologies. So once we work through all that, then we would uh kind of combine everything and then we would provide you with recommendations of what you would need to have in your comp plan and also your land development regulations um and the prioritization of
identified redevelopment actions. As well as that, I do like to mention um I know that the legislature is looking at Senate Bill 180. We hope that they're going to make some changes to that. Um but at that point, if we get to that point and we still have Senate Bill 180, then what we would do is work with you
and identify one thing what things you may want to do once that once that rule is over. Um because we can't be more restrictive or burdensome, right? So, we want to make sure that we identify those moving forward, but hopefully by the end of the session, we'll um have a decision on that. So, um I know there's two or
three um that are still working through the process. And then finally, we would come with a um draft recommendation and plans for you to look at. Um and this is just an example of one we did in Sunny Alles Beach as well. Um and identify and that
would include the changes that you may need for your comp plan or your LDR. And just to summarize, I think the uh CJ team, we just wanted to identify a couple of things. The first thing is just the local experience. I know Louie himself has has worked in Treasure Island. He knows the code. He
understands the code. Um Jerry's been a resident for a number of years, right? So we bring that local expertise and I think I think specifically local coastal expertise. I think that's very important. You really have to think differently when you're when you're on a co in a coastal community. What impacts
you put in and what you put in the future is going to impact what you have. Even underground infrastructure, those types of things you really need to look at. Um again, we've teamed with these other subconultants a number of times. Um and again, we're looking at it from
different eyes. We're looking at it from the engineering side, the traffic side, the planning side, um even GIS and 3D. looking at all that economics as well to come up with a recommendation for you all to move forward and um unrival c customer support. I think I would just
add that we work with again a number of communities. So we understand the policy side. Myself I was in the public sector for 25 years. So I worked for elected officials for numerous years and I understand kind of the the constraints. Sometimes they're financial but also political, right? We need to look at all
those as we move forward to get you a plan that works for your community. So with that that concludes the presentation 13 minutes and we can take any questions that you that you may have for us. >> All right, let me go ahead and start. Um
being that we are dealing with only commercial properties. Uh what do you believe the city can offer to entice developers and land owners to actually build a commercial project? I think the answer probably just in the
beginning I think we'd need to look at what's viable in those areas. You may we may say that you're you have a lot of commercial area, right? You have a lot of commercial. >> You may not need all of those per the market, right? So, you may think to look at those as mixed use or other uses that
could potentially go there. Um I think if you have a plan in place as well and identify what areas you're going to do, I think that entices um initial development and usually development that's that's kind of in the region or even outside the region, you know, maybe
um national chains and things like that if that's something that the community wants, of course. Um but I think it's a balancing act between kind of what the community that you want and and and bringing more in. That's what we would look at, I think, first is say, "Hey, we've got a lot of commercial here. Is
it really viable for the future of the of the city to have that? >> Okay. And one more question. Uh, currently Treasure Island, we do not use PDs and uh and I think that uh it's going to be really important for us to use PDs and have that tool in in the
box. Um so uh I I'm asking with your concept and with the creation of a master plan, could we do you see it being feasible that both the PDS and the
master plan run a parallel path and continue from the time we hire you until it's it's all done? >> Yeah, I think I think P PDs are one of the tools in the toolbox. Um, cities use them differently. Some cities, I work in cities that have 100 acres in its plan
development and they do a huge almost like what you're doing is a master plan. I mean, I think in your case, you probably want to look at PDs that are smaller in area, maybe even one parcel. There's some communities that do one parcel, say, "Okay, we're going to do this and we're going to give them certain incentives to build." Um, I also
think PDS in a city like yours, you know, not every every parcel is square. So, you're going to have issues with, you know, you probably get them with your setbacks, with your height, with all of those things. So, if you can give people some flexibility in order to build, that gives a little bit more, you
know, it it just makes it more viable. And I think developers are looking for an easy way to do something versus, you know, going through five or six variances. if they can apply for RPD, then they can kind of get all of that within there. Um, and then, you know, not have a non-conforming use at the end
and all those things that, you know, banks sometimes don't like to have when that goes through. It's a it's a really good tool that we use in other communities. >> Great. >> Have you uh ever had a have you ever done a master plan for a city that only includes private property?
>> That's an interesting question. Um, I think I would say that the majority of ones we have have a city hall or some sort of park parcel, but I don't think it's any different than having one that has public property. I think
it's just more it's more important to have that community communication with your business community, right? To understand really what >> Can I tag off of that? >> Sure. >> Um, I'm going to kind of tag off of that a little bit. Um, unfortunately when we
had the the final consensus on um what properties to include in the RFQ um I was out with an injury and um I'm blown away that we didn't include um at least
three or four of our but especially three of our major city-owned properties that are in the heart of downtown um which is one of the biggest redevelopments. Um I definitely you know looking researching you know
the basically the catalyst to kick off a lot of investment that I've seen in research um for people to redevelop is kicked off by a city-owned property. Um and in the presentation you were talking about parking and and all of these
things. And it's not to your detriment because it wasn't in our you know or any others um because it wasn't in our RFQ. I personally believe that it has to be part of if we're going to move forward with a master plan. I don't know how it
can work without it because we have, you know, two beautiful waterfront large pieces of property that, you know, one of them sits right in the heart of downtown, one block off. We have the park right across the street, you know,
so on and so forth. Um, so my belief is, um, if we do move forward that we have to include our city-owned properties to make it make sense and again to maybe even be the catalyst to kick off the rebuilding to begin with, you know, um,
it it it starts with something. Um, so that's one thing that I would really, you know, if we can agree if we do move forward that I definitely think has to be um, part of that is including city- owned property as well. Um, you were
talking about the economic uh, feasibility study. Um, I didn't see a whole lot um, in the original paperwork, but you you spoke about it here. Um, I'm a little and I would just like a little bit of an explanation, a little confused
as to why task two would come before the economic feasibility study because to me before we start because obviously we all want certain things, but let's say we're
focusing on the downtown area on 107th Avenue. um we could have a big meeting everybody's excited about and then we do the economic study afterwards and it's like okay we have to double everything so we can't do that. So if you could I
would love to know why that is um just as a explanation. >> Sure. >> I think they're listed that way and let me just kind of go back a little bit when we start that public engagement and this is what we've done elsewhere but if you all have a different process we definitely can talk to you about it. The first public meeting we have is just a
general meeting just to introduce us, introduce the project and get get kind of an understanding of where people are, right? We don't like to put any sort of information or data in front of them at that point because all we want is the information. Tell us what you want. Tell
us what you want this area to look like. Tell tell us what you want this area to look like as we're moving forward. So, as we get to the second meeting, you would probably say, "Hey, here's what you said. We heard you. Here's what we did. And here's what the numbers are telling us potentially. >> Got it.
>> Some of this might be viable, some of this might not be viable. And then that will kind of lead to the final if that makes sense because I don't I you don't want to lead people into a process and say, "Well, you can't you just can't do that right right away." >> And that's my fear. I just don't want to mislead
the public into thinking they can have something that they can't. Agree. >> And that's why I had that question. >> Yeah. And I think part of the part of the first meeting that we have with you is to kind of get a little gauge on that. You know, we don't want, you know, what's what's height you guys
comfortable with, what type of thing, you know, maybe some of that, what types of uses you might want to see. Um, just to get an understanding of where you all are, and to look at the community. Usually they're the same, but sometimes they're not, right? So, we want to make sure that when we go to the public, we understand a little bit about kind of
what the what the policy overview is. >> And I just had right now I just have one more question if that's okay. Um I know the original RFQ had stated, you know, hopefully within a 9-month period. Now, I have researched multiple projects that
you and everybody else have done um and even the original nine and uh that we were looking at and I didn't find any that um that I could find that were done and completed in nine months. Um so,
realistically um what are your thoughts on that? Nine months is very quick and I think because we're talking about such um you know as planners we're in it every day right we understand those things they need to understand the concepts and we need time
to kind of guide them to get to the point where they understand what we're saying so we're not you know no no we're not saying this this is what we're saying um the other thing that I was just thinking about with this morning I was talking to Louis is we have to be cognizant of your seasonal population
>> and we have to figure out how to engage engage them through the process. This is a nine-month process. We're going to be with you all adopting it December, maybe January. People may say, "Wait, wait, wait. What happened?" So, just we would have a discussion with you all to kind
of see how you would engage them if we were going to do that. We we definitely can do online meetings and things, but sometimes with this, it's tactile. People need to see it. People need to feel it. People need to write on maps and things like that. So we would work with you on that but I think nine months
would be would be very quick to get it to get it through. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh the major uh uh entry roadway is from the Basill Bridge to Golf Boulevard. What is your opinion as to excluding those from the master plan? >> Excluding that area. >> Mhm.
>> Are you talking about the area on the other side of the bridge? >> From the bridge to Golf Boulevard like uh the Treasure Island Yach Club. In my opinion, driving it today, I I would say that's your that's your front
door. I think you I think you want to have some sort of touch on that. You know, they're coming into your community. Hey, we're here. You know, kind of a kind of a showstopper. We may not have um acreage out there for landscaping and things like that, but you want to have I think you want to
look at that. And again, this is something through the process you could look at these five areas and say, you know what, we might not want to do that area at this point because we might want to do something or we may want to include city hall or city property at some point. Some that may be what you
want to do. Um, but I think in my opinion, I think you should at least look at it and see if there's there's some viability there because that's where your traffic is, right? That's where your highest traffic counts are. So, you may get some of those commercial uses that, you know, that want the
traffic. so that they can you know hire business. >> Thank you. Uh for a uh private uh development project, would you consider to be the minimum internal rate of return for a developer? >> That's a that's a financial we could we
could uh I don't I don't have an answer for you because I'm not the financial person, but we could get we could ask the uh that question. It has a lot to it has a lot to do with land value and actually the return has a
little bit to do what the city wants as a return investment as well. It you know are they going to provide infrastructure? Are they going to provide you know new water sewer? You know that that balances you know if the city says hey we're doing we're going to
be doing water sewer at some point or we're going to be doing the roadway over then they do the roadway. They don't necessarily do the roadway. sometimes that sometimes the additional costs offset on the off offsite um items are what really kind of hit the proforma.
>> I have three more questions, but I'm going to let my colleagues go next. >> Go ahead. You're you're on a roll. >> All right. Uh so land prices are flat, construction costs have doubled in the last 5 years, and sale uh prices of homes are down 15 to 25%. How do we
overcome that to encourage new people to live, work, and invest in Treasure Islands? >> Honestly, I think what you're doing is the is a great idea. I mean, you need to you need to show that the city is is invested in how the future of the city
is going to look. And I think sometimes they need a catalyst. The vice mayor talked about that, you know, and it doesn't necessarily have to be that property is there. It helps if city has property and city decides to do that, but the city land is the city land. You can you can decide to make changes to it
if you so choose as well. So, you have the ability to do that. You're in the front in the in the seat. Um, but I think in my opinion, lower land values sometimes are a good thing because this is the time when other development comes in because it becomes a little more affordable to to purchase, right, and
redevelop. Um, as that number comes down, as interest rates come down, everything becomes a little bit more affordable. I always say it costs a lot more money to redevelop than if it was a flat piece of land, right? Because you've got to knock it down. You don't know what's under the ground, run pipes, all of those things which you, you know,
it's almost like a double, not double, but you know what I mean. You have to pull stuff out and redo it. So, I think that's I think yes, it might be negative on the tax role at this point, but it's probably good for your future redevelopment opportunities.
>> Thank you. Uh, two more. Um, in general, for the scope of work for the five private properties on similar past projects, what was the total cost and time expended at the completion of the project?
>> We have the RP with the five listed. >> Yeah. No, we had the five um >> No, but the five um five ones that we actually provided as references,
>> we we have the cost of the five that you provided us as reference on this worksheet that uh each of us has. >> Okay, gotcha. And then um last question, what amenities and other factors are important in people's uh
delusions to live, work, and invest in Treasure Island and what do you see as the three major uh deficiencies in Treasure Island? I think to get people here. I think if you if the city can control whatever they can control, be it roadways, be it
water, sewer, those types of things, infrastructure, um parks, that's what gets people here. Um those are the types of those are the types of things that that get here. Um the three deficits, I think some of the things you talked about was one of them. you know, you I I
would say you've done a lot in in getting buildings back, but of course there's still buildings there, and that leads to blight. That leads to people thinking, "Oh, we don't want to reinvest in here." Um, I don't know how your infrastructure is. That's usually the second issue is your infrastructure is
you know sometimes gets damaged when the when the storm events happen and looking at those and how that becomes more resilient as storms become hopefully they don't become more they're getting stronger by the by the year right so you need to make sure that those are incased and the third one I think is just you
know your commercial areas need a little you know I think it needs some reinvestment and if you can come up with a plan that works for you I think you can start to get some of that reinvest investment more tax base tax base gives you ability to do more improvements in the community.
>> Thank you. >> Sure. >> Do you want to go? Go ahead. >> Yeah. >> Um first I just wanted to address um the whole I've seen a lot of hubbhub kind of about the um um you know private commercial areas versus our city-owned
properties. I I don't I know you said you were out. I don't think Arthur um but there was no underhanded reason that was done. I I I I want to develop 100% of the town. Um and if you can help us with all of our areas, that would be
great. Um I think the reason why at least I chose to focus on the commercial ones is because all we ever hear every day is the downtown. The downtown looks terrible. We we need to get that Thunderbird back. We need gators to get get going. So that was I think my reason
why I wanted to focus on those first. Um but I'm I'm open to to looking at all of those. Um for sure. I mean that would be great. Um you mentioned it a little bit but can you give examples of like where you guys have you know conducted
developer level financing feasibility modeling um such as construction costs. We've talked about those going up, you know, return thresholds, IRR analysis, you know, structured financing scenarios and, you know, for redevelopment projects and kind of either do you do
those in house, do you use a firm for those? And kind of is that something that you're comfortable doing? >> No, that's something that we actually do with um with Lambert. So, we've done a number of we've done a number of projects with them. The most recent one I'll talk about is um the city of Hollywood on the east coast. Hollywood
is a um historic beach town, a lot like you all. the um the buildings there. It's it's older than a lot of the other communities on the east side. Um and they're looking at three areas. They've had constraints because of I think
public didn't want to change things, right? And we may come across this at some point. Um but we worked with Lambert and then we used our 3D modeling through I think it's city view is what we used and we the economics ran the economic numbers and showed what had to
it was helpful for them to see this what this is what you have to have in order to make it work on that side. Of course Hollywood the east coast the the values are just still insane over there. So you have to look at kind of structured parking and all those things. Does structured parking work? Can structured
parking actually work on a parcel of that size? How does that all fit in? And how do you consolidate? One thing we may need to talk about is consolidating properties. You know, how does someone come in and purchase properties and do that redevelopment? Of course, they have to do it on the private side, but maybe there's incentives that we can work out
to have that done. So, we've done that in Hollywood, uh, Tarpon Springs, Oldsmar, um, Leburg, we did a little bit of that. And, um, the self-dade vision plan, that was a huge plan that we can get them working through. So, we've done it in a number of different places. Um, and
that's why I I kind of like them being the economic that comes in because they can feed us the information and then we can say, "Well, that's that's okay, but this is really not going to, you know, it's a round peg in a square hole. It's not going to fit or vice versa." >> Okay. And last question, you you
mentioned this would probably come into play more if we did look at some of our city- owned properties, but kind of if you can just talk about other experience and references you have with, you know, tax increment financing, developer developer incentives and, you know, public private partnerships because I
mean those usually require, you know, detailed financial structuring, you know, developer returns, public subsidy levels, and you know, long-term, you know, tax increment projections. So, how kind of you look at all that stuff and and and your experience with that? >> Right. So, some of that I mean right now
that's we're doing for the city of Hollywood. Um they helped us in the city manners as well when we did form and density for them. Um they had a downtown area. Um very small parcels and we looked at potentially kind of what the value would be to allow them to go
higher and to bring more density in. Um density was a was a four-letter word there. They didn't want to hear it. Um so that's something that we did with them as well. Um but Lambert itself has done numerous of these. They actually um work on the private and public sector side. So why I like to work with them is
they understand that side of it. Right. I'm in the public I'm in the public side all the time. They bring that information back to us. So >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Okay. I have a couple of uh points of clarification before I ask you questions just because of some of the other issues
that my fellow commissioners brought up. Uh one of which was the yacht club uh as you come over the bridge uh that is already included in the in the original RFQ. So that was uh that was planned to be part of the the plan the uh master
plan all along. Regarding the uh city-owned properties, I think including 108th Avenue where we have the two acres over there uh makes sense. I think including the community park uh how what we can do to make that uh more attractive, have more amenities. I think
that all makes sense. I don't think including Treasure Bay uh is a good idea to incorporate in this. It's too controversial. Uh if we do that, we're going to have we're going to have lots of people in here. They're going to want offer their opinions. I didn't want to bog what I think is a very good idea
having a city-wide master plan get layer all that controversy in. So that's why my original proposal excluded Treasure Bay. It's something that we still need to deal with, but I don't think we need to deal with it uh in the scope of this uh this work here. So I wanted to talk
about that for a bit. uh regarding your specific uh proposal, you you you'd mentioned that you'd uh worked with the city of Treasure Island for uh in your written proposal for about seven years. Can you tell us some of the projects that you guys have done for the city? >> I will let Louie answer that because he
was actually working on the projects. Uh yes. So we did uh a lot of uh filling in staff, assisting with applications, zoning reviews, permit reviews, um site plans, variances. Um we also uh yeah did
some comprehensive plan work as well. >> Okay. Uh the you mentioned about permit plans. You've helped multiple cities with uh with permitting uh issues in the in Penllis County, >> correct? Yeah, we do the zoning part of
the permit reviews. Okay. >> So, not not so much the building side of it, but the the zoning setbacks and things like that. >> Okay. Uh and I have a couple of generic questions that I'll be asking each of the presenters today, but one is most master plans end up sitting on a shelf.
uh what what will you think will actually change in the city of Treasure Island within a year after we're finished with this project within a year or two? >> Yeah, I I think we'll uh we'll we'll tag team this question, but that's one of our pet peeves with when we do master
plans is that it doesn't get implemented. Uh one of the things we do is we try to find the champions behind the plan. uh we try to have uh policies in the plan to uh require periodic review and implementation. So again,
that's something that we like to see uh because the public gets fatigued if they they go through a public engagement process, a plan is produced and then they're back to the drawing board two or three years later uh with more public engagement. So yeah, that that's some that's those are some of our um
strategies to ensure that doesn't happen. Yeah, Jim, I don't know if you have any other >> Yeah, I would just add I think one of the I think one of the things that comes out of this is you have to have an understanding of what you're changing in your code and what you need to change in the comp plan. And if that can be done concurrently, not to not to put it on
staff, but if that's something that you that you want to have happen, as we get closer to that, you can actually start that process because until you get the code in there, it's going to be hard to to make the the changes. You can start to make it. you could start to potentially do a a zoning district if that's what you want to go with or keep
the zoning you have and do plan districts. We can talk about what the what the best thing is. Um I've seen, you know, redevelopment plans and things like that. They work if you have a specific my opinion if you have a specific district. I'm old school. I like zoning. I like zoning districts.
And then if you have that district, you can also do plan developments and things if if something comes in. I think that in that way um you start to see some changes much quicker than you would if everything kind of stays the same in my opinion. >> Okay.
And uh the last question I have and again it will be a generic question for each of the presenters is that uh we have a very uh engaged community here in Treasure Island. And uh I don't know how engaged other communities are, but but uh I appreciate the the community
engagement slide that you talked about, but it almost seemed like it was just at one phase and the and the and the whole process. and and that concerns me because I I like the fact that you're going to get input from the community upfront before you, you know, before you come back with any pre uh proposals, but
how do you how do you gauge uh before you make your proposals, how do you gauge how the community is going to react to those? >> So, I will I will say you never know. Um we were in a community last week or the week before. I thought there maybe was
40 people. We had 140 people show up. The community was extremely engaged, which is great. And what I thought was great, we had all those people there. We did some live polling. We instantly found out kind of where they we got kind of the the temperature of the of the
group and what they wanted. Um, it's diff. We I know we went through the task, but task two is really goes the entire length of the process, right? The public engagement doesn't just we do one and then we stop. As we go through the other tasks, we're going to go back to the public and say, "Hey, this is what
we this is what you said. Here's what we want to do. Is that okay?" Yes. And then come to you all and say, "This is what we're, you know, this is what we think we're hearing. Is this going to work for you all?" kind of thing. And get that feedback from you. So, it's kind of a it's a loop process where we give them a little more information, get the
feedback, and bring it back final. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions? Okay, David. >> All right. Thank you all. >> Thank you so much. Appreciate the time. >> Thank you. Thank you. All yours.
>> All right. Uh hello everyone, members of the public. Uh for the record, my name is Terry Boy, senior vice president with Reptalis, and I'm here today to give you a short presentation about our proposal. So, uh who is Repalas? Um we're a financial and management consultancy. Uh
we operate nationally. We're roughly 200 um employees, consultants located around the US. We have a headquarters in Charlotte, North Carolina. One of our largest offices is here in Florida in Orlando. And that's where I operate out of. Everyone uh key members on our
project team uh live and operate out of uh central or south Florida basically. Um you can see some of the services that we offer. Uh what that sort of indicates is that um we have a pretty crossf functional team of consultants and um uh
staff members from a diverse background and we're going to talk a little bit about our project team and and some of their background um for everyone's benefit and understanding. Um, you know, we've worked with 300 different municipalities in the state of Florida, uh, doing a variety of different, um,
uh, financial management, planning, uh, different types of engagements. Um, and I'll talk a little bit more about that in a second. Our project manager, Cheryl Trench, she couldn't be here this evening because she's facilitating at the moment right now in Colorado, actually. So, she
operates a national footprint, but is based out of uh, Cape Coral, Florida. Um she's a um former um uh planner and uh helped oversee um uh several different
uh revisions to their um uh comp plan over her career um you know facilitating that and so she brings a a significant amount of experience uh that's relevant to the project. Um on our team, our subject matter
experts uh include Mike Burton, Dan Marks, and Steve McDonald. Uh Mike Burton has worked uh 40 plus years in the state of Florida uh doing general fund financial modeling uh for local communities. Uh that's an area of
expertise for him. Um Dan is an AICP uh to provide some support to us. Uh Stephen McDonald is um an economist and has done a significant amount of econ economic development work in Florida
both with Refal and um outside you know he's he's done um actually participated in I think three uh tiff bond issuances in the last year alone um you know not in Florida but in Michigan and in
Illinois and a few other places. Um, our staff consultants on the team that are going to be supporting, uh, Cheryl, uh, Mike, and, um, our subject matter experts include Emily Yuzelton, who used to be a finance director, uh, works for
us now and helps with organizational operational assessments, uh, Joe Williams, who does a lot of financial planning and modeling on the general fund side, um, Eric Van Mousson, who also uh, does some of that similar work, and then Diana Ling on the bottom right
there, who, um used to work for um uh Florida resilience and did economic work out of there and um now works for us and is also a CVA uh similar to uh my colleague uh Stephen McDonald. So we
have their resumes and our proposal that gives a little bit of more detail about that. But our team is a little bit non-traditional as you might see. Um we have a mix of folks that are um you know financial economic heavy as well as work
for local government on the planning side and development side. Um and so we're trying to bring maybe a different perspective to um a type of a project like this. One of the things that isn't really uh listed um since Cheryl's going to be carrying a lot of the burden is
our excellent uh communication professionals. Um, but we're always supported by our our team in that regard. Uh, we have uh some folks on staff that uh used to help with communications for the EPA. Um, so we have a lot of uh professional expertise
and uh crisis communication all the way. So we're very familiar with the different types of ways that we can communicate with and uh perform stakeholder outreach um to communities and uh including those in Florida. our our director of communications
um worked with Penllis County in their comm's department. Um Nick Ser uh again he wasn't specifically listed on the project team. Um he then went to uh Georgia spent a stint there and then we hired him you know about a year and a
half ago to join us to lead our communications practice. So, um, you know, we understand that, you know, the community here is a builtout barrier island community. Um, five districts we want to look at, but there's a broader, you know, focus that
needs to be had. I think that, you know, we put together the proposal based on the RFP, but certainly open a discussion around h, you know, what your focus wants to be, uh, related to this engagement. you know, we understand that there's a significant, you know, peak community uh that comes into town
seasonality that occurs that needs to get factored into all of this and um we're trying to balance tur economy with resident quality of life for all the residents that are in the community. So, how do we find a good mix of that to uh achieve a path forward? Um you know, there were a number of strengths in the
2006 master plan. We think there's some opportunities as it relates to the fiscal and service cost impacts um general and um ROI related to the uh projects. Um these were sort of the key uh
elements or focused uh from the RFP and our proposal that we identified. um focusing on the five commercial areas, a holistic approach, um something that is uh practical and actionable. Um but I think this might do a better job
of explaining sort of our approach at a high level. Um it starts with kind of the visioning. Um you know, and this is where we're doing a lot of the outreach things like that. Uh we're also benchmarking what works in other communities. what communities are you
most interested in in benchmarking to and what are the policies and tactics used there? Uh are there things that we can um you know bring to bear here that could help with the success of the project within the community? Um the assessment work which is um economic
impact analysis uh developing uh policies, strategic frameworks um that could be actionable and then of course you know the planning side of it which is where we develop uh the tools that we can use for decision support around you
know which direction we want to go. I think that if we were to look um uh actually here is just um some of uh some visuals to kind of support this process. So on the lefthand side you can see some uh vision and strategy
community engagement activities. Um we sometimes use visual facilitators to help us in uh documenting the uh ongoings of those meetings. And then on the right hand side you can see some of the general fund financial modeling that uh Mike Burton my colleague has uh led.
Um this is an example where you know we were looking at some of these analyses and we're trying to evaluate some of the issues with the homestead tax exemptions. So it just gives you some feel for how you know uh these can things can impact uh the general fund.
Um you know my background is also in economics and I think that um the financial planning side is an area of core strength for us. Um but uh this was uh the formal approach that we laid out in our
proposal and you know it starts with inventory condition assessment uh the vision and the strategy land use redevelopment um you know need to have mobility and parking factored into all that. So the
the proposal itself goes into good detail and I think is a pretty welllaidout approach for dealing with all of these items. Um, however, we know that there were some potential concerns. So, at the February 24th special, uh, commission meeting, you
know, what I kind of heard when I was reviewing that um, meeting were, you know, cost was a consideration, time line was a consideration, um, alignment of the community around the process and results, um, partnering with other teams. Um, so we know that
there are some, you know, NOS's that potentially you may want to, um, have a look at providing some of the services at a lower cost. Um, so we're happy to work with whoever um, the city would like us to work with. Um, or even if
there are some other um, uh, uh, team members to to support us um, in the execution of project, we're happy to work with, you know, all parties that the city would like us to. Um I think from a cost of service perspective, one of the things we can do is you know
there's a lot of time and effort on the outreach and the visioning that's necessary and um if you know it it is a pretty small community. I think there are folks with a lot of probably good ideas. We could even start to look at
those and prioritize those, do some of the economic and financial modeling at a high level, determine whether these are things that we really want to pursue and then that could potentially save on the cost. And then if we want to move forward down that path, we can. But if not, you know, then we don't have to
invest a lot of time and effort into something that maybe we don't think is going to be a good, you know, rate of return. And obviously, you know, the fundamentals need to drive the investments. um you know internal rates of return you know for these types of
projects you want to target around 20%. Um you know as a rough number so you know can we can we find ways to identify potentials for those types of returns uh are those reasonable and then of course um if that is something that's feasible
then you know we definitely need to support that with all the other things that are going to drive folks into the community. Um so um uh some examples of that might be you know modernized hotels and resorts uh walk walkable commercial
areas um recreation and waterfront uh marinas um I actually helped uh Denedan with their marina feast study not that long ago u so our background is very diverse in the types of uh engagements
that we do and Um so yeah, what sets us apart? Um we're strategic and financial planning experts. Um we have a national and regional presence. We have a pretty large depth of resources. Um cross functional team. We have um uh proven
success uh with many many successful engagements. Um one of those engagements was actually with the city here uh with a storm water fee study that we helped support. Um and um obviously we're passionate and dedicated about local government and um helping to support
communities achieve you know their objectives. >> All right. I'm I'm going to ask the the same question I asked of the the other folks and that is um we do not use PDs. We haven't used PDs. Um, but do you see
any issue with the PD uh being put into at parallel with whoever is going to uh do the master plan um so that we can begin to take a look at the the vision? I would right now what we have is that
we're not doing any of our government properties. We're doing all of the commercial properties in five areas. And the only way I see to entice them is to have a a PD and give them an opportunity
to negotiate. We don't have to accept anything, >> right? >> But we need to move forward and give them, you know, a path to for development. >> Yeah, I I think that that makes a lot of sense and provides a lot of flexibility.
Um so yeah, I I don't see any issues with that. However, um I'm I'd be remissed if I didn't say that Cheryl would be better suited to answer this question more directly and um certainly I want to confer with her as well to see what additional thoughts she might have for you. >> Sure. Absolutely.
>> Um I ab I I love the financial aspect of your company. Um being a business owner, you know, it all comes down to the money. no matter how pretty it is, no matter how much we want something, if the money doesn't make sense, um then it just doesn't work. Um so I do love that
aspect of your company. Um you said something that definitely intrigued me. Um you I had the question wrote down, but you kind of answered it, but I would like to go a little bit more into it. So,
because of our unique situation with our downtown area, our property up on the north end, you know, the the properties on the Gulf side, a couple of those um thus far that we've heard from the developers and the owners that currently
own it and and um a lot of them are local. And the one thing that they consistently say is that they cannot afford to build back with today's cost at our current codes and zoning, which is why we're here. >> Right.
>> My question is, um, does your company I'm going to kind of curveball. >> Um, and you kind of answered it. Um, is there an option that before we go diving head first into a full master plan, is
there an option to do just the feasibility studies um possibly on these five properties um and look at it to see where we're at um you know to be so that we can be completely transparent with
everybody. Okay, it's not me, it's not them, it's not the developer. It truly just doesn't make sense. Um because we have been working um with a company redoing our comp plan. Um but of course all of that stopped when we started
discussing the master plan, but to me um and you said you did the Dun uh the Dun Eden Marina um and that's awesome by the way. Um, however, I'm just curious if that is something that would be an
offering um, aside from doing the full-blown master plan. >> Absolutely. Yeah. We And in fact, you know, that's kind of based on that last commission meeting, you know, that was something that came to to us and uh, I even mentioned to David, you know, after
reviewing it that, you know, before submitting the presentation, just want to incorporate the slides so we could speak to that. Um so yeah we we think that is but I I think the one thing and I talked to my colleagues about this before uh coming here before you to sort of share that option is that it's kind
of like um uh resolution. So it's like if if you make highle assumptions your resolution on the vision is a little blurry and fuzzy. So I think we just need to understand that the resolution on the output of that work effort is
going to be blurry. And so I think like getting a general idea of what's potentially feasible and then dialing in the resolution on that going through the steps engaging the community um all
those steps can kind of so yeah I mean we could do something high level and then if it passes muster this is something you want to pursue and do then we can continue on with the remainder of the engagement. And then just to kind of finish up on that, um, to me, I mean,
just sitting here, I mean, obviously doing the research on your, you know, your company and everything, it speaks for itself when it comes to the financial aspect of it. Um, maybe not so strong on some of the others, but definitely the financial. Um, and it
just to me it kind of seems more fiscally responsible. Um, I know some of my colleagues said, you know, rather than seeing a master plan, go through it, spend the money, you know, well into the six figures, um, and the time for it
to just sit on a shelf. Um, to me, the the fiscally responsible part of it. Um, and who knows if we have if we have the feasibility analysis with PDS, you know, maybe that's what makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. maybe, you know, we
want to go ahead with it further. So, I like what you said where maybe we can do that and then see if we want to take if we need to or if we want to take that next step. So, thank you for that. >> Yeah, of course. >> Go ahead. the uh one of the proposals uh
that was submitted to us uh included those some of those early deliverables that you mentioned specifically uh that the proposal uh uh mentioned an early deliverable for feasibility study for uh Pirate Square and for uh the Thunderbird
as well. So, I I like the idea of as part of the master plan process getting some early deliverables so that we can take a look at those those areas that have been uh uh top of mind uh and and see if our you know get answer the
question once and for all. Are our current codes uh too restrictive for developing those areas? And if if we do need to change them, what do we need to change them to? because the tendency up to this point has been to want to change those codes to whatever the maximum the
county allows. And I was hoping that that part of the strategic planning process, whoever was going to do this for us, was going to uh come back and say, you know what, the current code may not work here and you don't need to go to the county maximum in these areas, but something like this would work would
still work in those areas. So anyway, uh to I guess I'm reinforcing uh Vice Mayor Vasquez what you said about uh about having some of that stuff up front uh where we can probably make some decisions about which which uh direction
we go from there. Uh sir, you mentioned about the that you guys had done some work for the city of Treasure Island on a storm water uh project or storm water fees. How long ago was that? Um, I would say within the past two to three years, I believe.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh and and again to Commissioner Vasquez's or Vice Mayor Vasquez's point, uh your firm has significant expertise in financial strategic consulting uh for our project in Treasure Island uh to
ensure what can you do to ensure that we're going to get the same kind of expertise on the physical design, the land use planning and redevelopment aspects? Well, like I said, you know, Cheryl had overseen the um uh comprehensive plan development in her
own municipal community and uh develops these types of strategic plans um you know for our our clients. So, and then we also have Dan Marks who is an AICP uh that's going to be party to the team and advising us in this area. Um, I would
say that, you know, if it was a major concern, we're willing to bring on a sub that would rectify any immediate concerns you might have about our qualifications in this area. However, you know, if the intent is to do an economic and financial feasibility more at a high level to beginning, that may
not be all that necessary um since we think that our project team is capable of providing those services. >> Okay. And I had asked a couple of other questions uh to the previous presenter about uh what's your confidence level
that that your approach uh will not just end up sitting on the shelf here that will actually be implementable and and in short in short order short time. >> Yeah. I mean I I don't know how quickly it can really happen. Um, but I think
that if the fundamentals support development in the community, I think that there's going to need there's going to be a desire to want to invest because everybody's going to want to generate that rate of return. Uh, so it's basic fundamentals. Um, so I think that that,
you know, I think as long as we can propose a plan that has a good, you know, rate of return and is economically feasible, um, you know, we should expect that there's going to be interest in in the community. And I think that all the things that you know um that typically
go into this type of a planning engagement where we're concerned about the aesthetics of the community and all those things those are all very important and those are necessary requirements. Um but before we identify all those things I think just making sure that the fundamentals are there and
building off of that. >> Okay. And the last question I have again which I asked the previous presenter was about uh the community engagement and you and as the previous presenter you had a a a a point in time in which that you were going to be doing that. Can you
help help me understand how you keep uh the community involved in the in the uh entire process not just not just at one stage in it? >> Well I mean this was a little bit of a different example but I'm only referencing it because it was very recent. I was doing some work out in
California and we were assisting a community to evaluate um redoing their whole solid waste management plan basically within the community and you had a conflict between you know some of the folks in the urban areas and some of the folks in the rural areas with how
that system is going to play out and so we involved our communications professionals to help on the the front end of this process. So first we identified who were all the relevant stakeholder groups within the community and um and and those that we need to
engage with and um engage with them sort of headon and then uh understand what their concerns are and then um transparently address those concerns you know um and so um it it normally and I don't have my like professionals from
the communication side here to really like explain but there is a a spectrum of which you can achieve outreach. So one would be asymmetrical. You're communicating just information to folks and then the other you know spectrum would be you want to get their input into the process itself. Uh so those all
involve different layers of communication and outreach. But I think the point is um you know with this example I was bringing up is that uh it wasn't asymmetrical information. It was the community getting involved in the process, communicating about what their
needs and wants were and then having someone understand what those were and then um addressing them through the study and the engagement. And by the end uh the communities that were involved uh that were against uh the proposal u
because we were able to sec successfully incorporate their input um had no issues and fully support it. In fact, we had no comment when the plan went for adoption. We had a um unanimous vote and no public comment for it. >> Okay. >> Against it.
>> Thank you. >> I'm going to go with my same questions. Have you ever done a master plan for the city that only includes private property? Private property. >> Um no.
uh the major entry uh roadway uh is from the Bascial Bridge to Gulf Boulevard. What is your opinion as to excluding those from the master plan? >> I think that as I mentioned before, if there are some key projects that you
want to focus in on to better inform, you know, the level of effort you want to invest in this process, then I think that it's fair to focus on those other areas. and then um the ancillary with the other communities you can
incorporate those. I know that wasn't specifically the point of your question but I did want to kind of re reiterate that point from earlier. >> Thank you. And I hear you heard you say that uh for my uh question about private uh development projects. What do you
consider to be the minimum internal rate of return for developer? I believe you said 20%. Thank you. Uh so uh land prices of course are flat, construction costs have doubled last 5 years and uh sale prices of homes are
down 15 to 25%. How do you uh overcome that to encourage new people to live, work and invest in Treasure Island? Um, you know, I have family that lives uh north of here in Penllis County, and I enjoy coming down into Penllis County.
Um, and and um, experiencing what the communities here have to offer folks, uh, not only as a Flidian, but as someone who has lived in other states before. So, I think that what really drives people here, what what brings anyone to a community like the city? Um,
it's the it's the um it's the beach, it's the vibrancy, it's the life, it's the culture, it's the individuals. So, I think that like those are the things that are going to ultimately draw it. What we have to do is figure out, you know, what types of development is going
to drive an an an economically viable plan that is going to contribute to that overall vision and character of the community because obviously there's a there's a trade-off that can occur depending on how you adjust. um you know if you go to the county maximums for example or or what have you you know and
then allow further development high density to occur and balancing that against um you know potential interest within the residential community. So I think that um you know yeah I I think that those are some of the key considerations. >> Thank you. And in general, for the scope
of work for the five private properties on similar past projects, what is the total cost and time expended at the completion of the project? And I know uh uh Commissioner Dicki passed out a piece of paper that had uh some past uh
experience with similar projects and none of the uh cities that I believe is on this list compared to Treasure Island. So uh what do you think would be uh the cost and the time expended at completion
>> in a master planning engagement could easily be six figures um because of the outreach involved and a lot of the uh labor involved in the production of the the work product itself. Um, so you know, I would say that, um, you know,
tackling it in a targeted approach could, uh, help you optimize what your total investment is going to be in a project like that. But, you know, um, and and if you had to push me, I'd say, you know, upwards of 250,000. >> And what about time?
>> Um, I think that the time constraint was what was requested in the RFP. And so we have a path to achieve that, but you know, I would agree that it is um expedited and there would need to be
things that would have to be working somewhat concurrently. And I think that the engagement piece is possibly something that even though on paper feasibly it could be done, is it something that you really want to rush? So I think that you know those are the
key considerations I have. So, is it feasible? I I believe it to be feasible. Um, is it something ultimately you'd want to adjust? I I'd leave that up to the city. And last question, what amenities and other factors are important in people's disillusions to
live, work, invest in a city, and what do you see as the three major deficiencies in Treasure Island? >> Um, I think that, um, I think that there's a need for reinvestment. you know, the community
went through sign, you know, just like Penllis County when the hurricane came through. Um there's there needs to be reinvestment into resiliency within the community. Um so that, you know, we can uh still be open if we have like a major
hurricane or something like that. Um I think that we need to have um things that uh draw people and want to keep people here within the community. Uh, I mentioned, for example, you know, the concept of a marina, um, uh, you know,
higherend or more modern hotels. I know that Underbird's trying to redo that and get open again. Um, I think those are the types of things that a community um, such as the city of Treasure Island needs uh, for the for folks that want to come back.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah. So, as far as um the whole cost component keeps coming up and I mean, you know, it's like either either we don't do a master plan or we do a master plan, it's going to cost us a half a million dollars. We're the commission.
We can decide what we want to do. We may get halfway into this thing and figure out that we've got all our goals and we're well on our way to building back. And, you know, we could add, we can add, we can take away. So, we're not locked into some figure from day one. it all.
It's going to depend how we decide to set it up and how we decide to structure it. So saying it's a nothing or you know half a million dollars is really to me is not accurate. So um again I liked a lot of your financial things. Can you give again you talked about you know irr
and things for building back but can you just give some maybe an example of a place where you kind of started from scratch and you know conducted that developer level financial feasible model you know feasibility modeling um you know with return thresholds rate IRRa
analysis and structured financing scenarios. Yeah, I mean I think um you know we we had um I have a list here from Stephen McDonald who provided to me before the presentation, but I'll just name a few
of them. Um you know, New Smyrna Beach, um Miami Dade, Miami Uptown, uh Ocean Cadillac. Um, so we could uh I could get with Stephen and and I mean there are about
25 or 30 examples here that we could provide um you know to the to the commission uh to review it. But um I think I mentioned earlier that you know there were three in particular you know because one of our just to kind of harp
on some of the strengths is uh that experience with TIF financing. So we had done three um TIFF bond studies. Um Steven had done them. One was Allentown, Pennsylvania, Mskegegan, Michigan, and
Matune, Illinois. Uh those were um three uh last year alone. And um was a brownfield redevelopment um tiff financing. So, uh I would say that you know we have a number of experiences and projects I think that
are relevant um to the consideration and um can provide more detail you know as as necessary. >> Yeah, that that was my next question. You kind of already answered it but along the tiffs and the public private partnerships and development incentives I assume you have experience with all that.
>> Yes. >> And you know we have a lot of local developers that want to develop. I want to see them succeed, but I think for also for our town to succeed, we also may need to bring in some outside development, too. I mean, is that something that you could if we set things up properly, you could help us
attract, you know, additional uh developers? >> I mean, I think um you know, I I I definitely want to reserve that for Cheryl to respond to you. I would I would imagine yes. Um, you know, like I said, you know, some of the folks on our
team have a background in economic development, so I think that, um, they would probably be very pro on that answer, but I'd like to just confirm with them. >> Gotcha. Cool. Thank you. >> Anything else? >> I just have a follow-up question uh,
regarding the nine months uh, timetable. Both you and the previous presenter um, mentioned that that was tight. What What's a more realistic timeline for a master plan? I mean, probably a year and a half. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> All right, David. >> All right. Thank you, Terry. >> Everybody good? Drive on. Need a break? Let's go forward. >> All good. >> All right. Our final presenter this
evening is uh Cotler and Hearing. >> Good evening. Uh George Mamemer. I'm a vice president with Cotler and Hearing. We're a a land planning landscape architecture firm. Uh we have two offices, Jupiter and a regional office in Orlando, Florida. I'd like to start
uh as I do in most of my public hearings uh just thanking you for the service you provide your community. It's a sacrifice uh for everybody. So uh I appreciate it in my own community for those who represent us. So uh thank you for what you do. Um first thing I like to share is just a
little bit about our team, who we are, what we do. Uh and personally um first three things that I usually like to say about myself is that I'm a father. I'm a husband and and I'm as I'm accountable to them. I'm accountable to my co-workers and to my clients. Um we're a
family uh we consider ourselves a family our office and those who who we work with. So uh it's very important to us. Uh we have a team of uh multiddisciplinary professionals of uh more than 50 at this point including certified land planners, urban planners,
landscape architects, landscape designers, graphic designers, environmental specialists, as well as arborist, irrigation. Uh we're designers at heart. We work with local governments. We work with private developers um creating uh beautiful developments that uh fit both uh
economic uh vitality of an area as well as creating places that are special to the community. Um, as I said, we have two office locations. We understand our strengths. We understand our weaknesses. There's a lot in the RFQ. There's a lot of areas of focus. You guys are really going after
it. The whole kitten kaboodleoodle. Um, so I think that's why there's some concern on the timing of it. But we work with professionals on a daily basis that specialize in all areas that you're looking for. And so we put together the best possible team of those that we work with, that we're comfortable with, that we know are accountable just like we
are. In terms of point of contact, uh you'll recognize this from our RFQ submitt. In terms of an organizational chart, um we like to have one point of contact with government contracts. Uh it keeps communication clear. So for this project, if we were to be selected, I
would be the point of contact for our team. Uh and uh we have multiple of our consultants here are experienced in master planning as well as all areas. So you're really getting a full team uh that's really experienced in all areas of of what you're looking to to
accomplish. A little bit about Cotler and Hearing, we have more than 35 years of experience uh in South Florida working in a number of different uh communities uh in municipalities as well as working for other government organizations such as FDOT doing various roadway and uh beautifification projects
um and experience in again all areas of what you're looking to accomplish. Um some of the projects which we included in RFQ working for other municipalities recently we've been contracted with Lauderdale by the Sea is a similar community uh to Treasure Island slightly
different in that it's on the east coast of Florida um but similar in size and population uh looking to overhaul well not overhaul but an analyze their comprehensive plan and land development regulations slightly smaller scope they didn't want to jump into a giant master plan and redevelopment but it's
analyzing and updating their LDRs and their comp plan fit what the community needs today. Uh another example of a large master plan that we completed. Uh we designed the city of Westlake um which was uh one of the newest cities in Florida located
in Palm Beach County. Uh about six square miles of total land area including mixtures of densities, intensities and uses uh as well as significant designs from a transportation perspective. We do have ongoing contracts with sever
several several municipalities for uh reviewing plans uh assisting in analysis of comp plan and land development regulations. Uh one is village of Royal Palm Beach. We've been working with them since 2019 from everything from vegetation removal permit landscape
inspections to plan review for new developments. So, one of the things that we specialize in is implementing master plans and uh uh special zoning district regulations. We really envision and carry out those guiding principles that are set out in
uh one such example was our uh recently approved and under permit under construction project Rio Marine Village in Martin County. It's a CRA project uh in an area uh it's an infill development project where we implemented a CRA code that we assisted in and re assisted RG
assisted in uh for a mixeduse project which includes substantial um public interaction. It's the only uh public accessible waterfront in this district. So it's very significant to the community. We worked with their neighborhood advisory committee uh
through some design cherettes to understand their wants and needs. Something that we're very confident in. We work uh really well in that capacity for public outreach and developing these 3D renderings in house. Um so we have a team of
professionals inhouse that does 3D renderings, uh massing studies, and we're able to be very responsive that way. uh some examples of quick studies that we're able to accomplish in a day to where we can take a property, this
example is in downtown Orlando and understand uh from a comp plan and LDR perspective what's permitted and then from a developer perspective what they want to see, what's financially viable for them uh and then what that looks like so we can create quick exhibits that are able to be um shared through
that process. As I said, we have a in-house staff of professionals for our uh design development. Uh we've worked with a number of municipalities from a roadway perspective. Um something that I see great opportunity in city of Treasure Island for improvement uh for some of
your roadways, not only from a beautifification perspective, but from an accessibility perspective, walkability uh and and such. uh some examples of completed projects that we did for FDOT
uh similar in creating those spaces. Uh there's another project that we completed for FDOP along Alligator Alley was an environmental uh struggling for the word for it but it's an educational center that we created
which which a designed wetland feature and boardwalk feature and environmental enhancement. Again as I said we're designers at heart and we love what we do. Um some of the takeaway from our experience um we understand how to implement uh the designs uh working with
developers as well as municipalities in balancing those needs um uh extensive experience in evaluating the land use and zoning regulations, understanding market statistics, what's driving a market at a particular time.
Um there's a constant evolution uh in markets from uh uses that are more readily available for financing or you know influxes of of residential that's needed for you know critical uh improvements. Um so we're we're able to
be responsive and understand those those interactions. Uh in terms of the RFQ that laid out, there was five locations indicated, five unique locations uh indicated within that RFQ, we really see this as uh guiding
principles and guiding design uh guidelines that could be implemented by the city. Um and so it may not be just affecting these five areas. Obviously, they're the focus areas, but if we're talking about streetscape uh improvements that may be applicable for one district, it's not necessarily
strictly to that location. and they could be implemented citywide. Uh we laid out uh a process uh following the outline within the RFQ. There's minor differences in our timelines. Obviously, we wanted to be responsive to the city's uh stated objective of being
within 9 months. And uh I while I think that's uh we can accomplish that uh if you're able to provide additional time in different phases uh then you're able to achieve more from a design perspective from a community
outreach perspective. We've adjusted some of the timelines here because we see some of these things running concurrently. Uh so from you know the foundational knowledge doing the existing analysis and understanding what there is to work with uh and then the visioning and community outreach we
really need to run handinand so that we can uh have that information to create the scenarios to create those designs to again get additional community feedback. uh some of key challenges or opportunities that we see in this uh one
of them being coordinating with multiple stakeholder groups in every community. There's competing interests. There's different groups that want to see different things from private land owners who want the highest and best use for their property or the most value if they were to sell it to residents that don't want to see their community change
to what they don't recognize anymore. And one of the strategies that we implement for that are focus groups rather than a really large town hall where you get a bunch of people that might, you know, all be have competing interests. It's hard to get uh unified messaging from those different groups. If we're able to break it down into
smaller groups, you can work uh much more closely with a community and understand the different interests that are there. Uh another one is current data for traffic and mobility recommendations. Um we are getting out of season. Um so
we're going to have to rely on prior year data uh in terms of you know not doing new studies to understand current uh data available. Um so again from a timing perspective if this was to move uh into season the following year we
have a little bit more availability with the seasonal residents and tourist crowd. Uh and then clear and concise direction from elected officials. Um, we find that if there's vague language or planning jargon included in
recommendations, it's difficult to get feedback. Meaningful feedback comes from clear and concise policy direction with actionable items. Um, so that's what we would propose as part of our work. Um, so our experience in all areas of expertise
necessary service the city. You know, we anticipate these challenges, but we have a plan to address them. um from a company perspective and our team that we've put together, you know, we have extensive Florida knowledge and decades of experience in South Florida
and coastal communities. Um we have the the tools and the expertise and the staff to immediately create visual uh um product to communicate those designs to get important feedback. We have a
collaborative approach with our team uh and we have an extensive Florida presence. Uh I'd like to introduce a member of each of our team. We have them all here tonight. It's very important that you meet everybody from our team. So first I'll have LJ Engineers come up. There you go sir. Jeffrey
>> George Mleti with Macintosh Engineers. Um we're a parent company is LJA. LJA is uh countrywide through throughout the south uh all the way from Florida to Texas,
Colorado. Uh 3,000 employees strong uh and over 80 offices across the states. In Florida, we have 17 locations and we are 300 people strong and the staff we would support this project with are more
local. um my office in Tampa, uh Sarasota, as far south as Naples and Fort Myers, as well as Gainesville in Orlando. Among those offices, we have more than 60 staff uh of project managers, engineers, designers uh all
supporting uh this project effort. Um, I won't get into my own background, uh, because I'm told I have a limited amount of time, but like the others on my team throughout the the region. Um, we have experience in areas of utilities
including storm water, uh, sewer, water, wastewater treatment, water supply, uh, infrastructure of all kinds, roadways, bridges. We have structural groups who can design anything you need. If it's a large culvert or a bridge, anything of
that nature. Um I would point out and I if I may be mistaken what the previous presenter was saying about a high level financial uh view of the project um without uh looking at more granular at the technical level um I I think you're
doing the project whole the whole project a disservice you could spend a lot of money if you don't look at some of the technical level uh challenges you might have. I understand the city of of Treasure Island is invested a lot in a new uh treatment plant. Uh that's fine.
I've been on projects where uh no one's asked the question, is there capacity at the treatment plant? And well, no, there isn't. So, the project is dead. Well, it's not to say that your your system does doesn't have the capacity, whether that's your roads or your your
pipelines, your sewer, your water. Uh we have to look at that because you could uh you know a highdensity hotel development could could look great on paper and and with financials yeah it supports it the your your your developers will love it if that's what
they want to build but if you don't have the infrastructure um well it's not going to happen and you're going to get to to the design level where it's just going to fall apart there. Um that's the point I really want to drive home and uh thank you all for your time.
Good evening. Um, my name is Nicole Po and I'm an attorney, a senior attorney with Lewis Longman and Walker and we are so honored to be here as part of this team. Um, we have five offices across Florida with a local office in St. Petersburg that I'm in and my colleague
Katherine Rossmemell who is an executive shareholder in our um, West Palm Beach office. We both have extensive experience with comprehensive planning, master planning, redevelopment work. So we are here to support the team in any
way um that we can with respect to you know the legal um field regulations governing the project and any work you you may have um in that regard. Um we have experience working for
for Florida Department of Transportation. We have experience working for many different um local governments. Um so we are able and willing to help the city and help our team in that regard. And I'll just say
it's it's an honor to be back here. Um I have worked on projects for the city in the past. So I'm really excited that um our office is part of part of that team. Thank you. >> Thank you, George. >> Good afternoon. My name is Alli De Laga.
I'm a senior project manager at Reg Architects. Um just a little bit about the the firm. We're 35 plus years in practice and have collaborated all those years with Cotner hearing throughout
various projects as well. We have extensive experience in these type of projects uh master planning and also with the form-based architecture that's tied to those those projects as well. Uh we are a 25 person strong firm. We have the ability to to you know be on site as
needed wherever throughout the state of Florida. Um we are as you as noted in the RFP there's several projects that we've identified that we've collaborated collaborated on together with coloring
as well. Uh we are the architects for Mara Lago. Uh we did together the Royal Palm Beach Village Hall. That's one of the the projects together with color hearing. We have a niche market and historic preservation as well as well as
um urban design and feasibility studies. We've also worked together on several public outreach um events with coloring. A small aside, uh it's nice to be back. I lived in this area as a child growing
up, so it was nice to back. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, George. Uh, good evening, Mayor, Dr. Commissioners. My name is Larry Zabbeek. I'm a partner at Zabic and Associates, and we are a construction management and an economic development consulting firm based in
Royal Palm Beach. Uh, we've worked together for probably 20 years with Cutler Herring. Our firm is 30 years old and we have provided economic and demographic analysis for projects across the state of Florida to assist communities in making decisions like
you're going to make today, not only short-term but long term for the development of Treasure Island. I have a master's degree in economics from the University of Oklahoma and a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering from Norwich University. In addition to my professional work, I used to be uh
retire used to be a city commissioner and a vice mayor in Royal Palm Beach. So, I very much understand the position you're in and the trust the community has put in you and we recognize that and we really really appreciate that. Our firm will provide the economic demographic financial analysis for the
project. We're honored to be part of the team with Cutler and Herring. We're working with Lewis Longman. We're working with RG Architects on a number of other projects. We're currently working on two very largecale master plane projects. One in Cape Coral, the Seven Islands project, and the other Wellington Lifestyles. Both are
billiondollar plus projects that we have been working on for years. And that's something that's very important for you to consider. What you're looking at is billions of dollars of development over time. And it will not be a one-year, two-year, it will be a 20-year vision you need to look at. We won't have an answer for you in six months or nine
months. the first development won't come onto the ground in 18 months. It's going to take time. But from the development community, because those are many of our clients, they look for certainty. They look for rules they can follow. They look for the ability to meet with the decision makers and the community so
that they're able to design their developments to fit the needs and to be responsive to the community. So our goal today is to help you develop a plan that will reflect your vision and the community's vision that will also provide the flexibility to be changed
amended over the next decades because that is going to happen. You all will not be on the commission in 10 years from now. Maybe some will, some won't. But as change takes place, the community vision will take place and what we'll develop for you will be a plan to provide you with that flexibility to move forward into the future. and we
thank you the time for your time this evening and we thank you for your service. >> Concludes our presentation. Be happy to answer. >> All right. Well, let me start and uh we're going three times, but um we don't use PDS. We we've not used them. Um I
think that we're going to need to use them um to entice developers, land owners to to move forward. And uh like I said, we can always decline whatever they want. So we want to You don't see any issue with us uh applying for the PD
in conjunction with the master plan? >> No, not at all. I mean, as part of when we reviewed the RFQ and it was very detailed, a lot of information in there, and we saw that as one of the tools that we could recommend as part of that potential change to your zoning and
LDRs. Um, it's one of the most important ways that developers are able to get unique developments approved in unique areas where they can respond to conditions, specific site conditions, specific market conditions, and create those unique projects. Um, so we see it
as a very important tool that the city could use. >> Great. Thank you. >> And I'm going to kind of go to the same question. Um, I didn't hear you really speak a lot about feasibility studies.
Um, can you tell us a little bit more information on >> Absolutely. >> I got the sense from your questions that is a focus of yours. Obviously, Larry Zavic is is our subject matter expert on the financial modeling of certain developments. Um, talking about timing,
I understand from your prior question about, you know, doing a feasibility study up front before you get into master planning and it's a little backwards. Um, there has to be some element of a plan to implement your current zoning or recommended zoning changes to create a project that you
could then financially model. Um obviously there's uh certain improvements I mean uh analysis that you can do from a taxable perspective in calculating what a potential investment of this dollar amount on this property might generate for the city uh or
impacts to certain public infrastructure. Um things like that you could do upfront. Uh but if you're looking at specific development areas and you want to envision a design for the community, it's really difficult to do a feasibility study um with financial
modeling without a design something to look at uh in that perspective. So, um, it really goes hand in hand and it's hard to do one, uh, really well first. Kind of have to go to >> So, you couldn't take or you don't suggest
I'm not going to say you can't. Um, but that you don't suggest taking, and I'm just going to use the property right here, Pirate Square. you don't suggest taking that and looking at it at our current zoning, current limits, and if
it was built to the max of what we allow now, um looking at the ROI on that, you you would not suggest that. >> It depends on what you're looking for. And if that was a target, a goal of the city to understand what's the maximum return investment that we could get out
of a a city-owned property. Let me before we go too far that way. No, the the intent is to because we have our developers who've own owned the property um who want to develop it but they have stated we have
some of them here this evening that under current cost of building they cannot build to our current rules and regulations and zonings or you know heightened density whatever the case may be. So ultimately it would be kind of
out of the gate to say okay they're right or they're wrong you know you can do it. So that's more what I'm looking for. >> Understood. So I mean in terms of we could absolutely complete the study and the feasibility analysis just going off the maximum of what the zoning code
allows what could be built and then understanding from a financial and modeling perspective is a developer going to want to do it is it worth it for him? Um so 100% we can do it. >> Okay. thinks >> when uh when I read your written proposal, I I wrote notes all over it
and and I was writing love this approach, love this. Uh they really did their homework. I mean, I I was I was uh I really got enthusiastic about this whole project once I read uh your your company's approach to it. So, I appreciate that very much. Uh the
biggest uh weakness you mentioned you know your strengths and weaknesses but the biggest weakness as I saw in your written proposal and you had a slide on it up here as well is the people that you've assigned to this project. It's like you you've assigned seven landscape architects to to this project and that
you know seems like six too many maybe but not knowing more than I do about what landscape architects do but uh c can you talk a little bit about that? you you seemed a little uh uh heavy on that side and a little bit short on the
financial side in terms of your >> people assigned to this >> organizational chart. >> I'm sorry. >> Are you talking about our organizational chart? >> Yes, the one that you had up here plus you had a hard copy of it uh in the proposal. >> Yes, sir. So I mean that was primarily to show the the number of professionals
in our company Cutotler and hearing specifically uh in the knowledge that we have available to us. So um we're not saying that they're all going to be integral to the project. Um but we work very closely together as a firm and we
advise each other. We get feedback from each other. Um, so they're they're my partners, a majority of those, uh, including our two founding partners. Um, so they're uh they're experts in what they do from transportation planning to landscape architecture to land planning.
Um, so understood, but I think what we were doing was just showing the number of professionals in our own firm. Uh, obviously our consultants also had a number of experts within their firms that they also would rely on. We didn't put everybody's names in there, but um, I think that's what you were looking
Yeah. So you you're you're saying that you all these seven landscape artists wouldn't be architects rather wouldn't be assigned to this project then. >> No. So they're not they're not all going to be competing and doing their own designs or >> Okay. I appreciate that. Anyway, you did start out by saying you know your
company's strengths and weaknesses. Tell me what you think your company's weaknesses or are. >> Yeah. So when when we look at the RFQ that you put out, like I said, it all-encompassing. there's a lot of information that you're looking for in there. Um, and so that's why we put
together the team that we did. We don't do financial modeling in our company. We understand it. We work with developers. We know what they want and we know how to implement zoning code to achieve developments that are financially feasible. Um, but for some of the analysis that you're looking for in that
proposal in the RFQ, we know that we're not the ones to provide you the best service. we went to the best Larry Zab for architectural uh analysis in terms of you know providing recommendations for new development. One of the strategies is to um do with especially
with PDS is there's uh incentives where you you get trade-offs to where if you do a public improvement maybe there's additional density available to you that might make your project more financially feasible. Um or certain architectural elements to include. So, if you're doing uh zoning additions or modifications to
zoning that might provide bonuses, uh a detailed review of architecture uh is critical to that. And so, RE architects are renowned for their design ability as well as their master planning. And so, having that feedback
and and that teamwork to put together uh and be all-encompassing is really important. And that's why we wanted to put the team together that we did. So, and I mean from an engineering perspective for public infrastructure, understanding uh traffic counts or availability and capacity for water and
sewer, you know, having an engineer on board uh is is critical to that. So, you know, there's a lot of detail in the RFP that you put out. It's not just master plan. Um so, we wanted to put the best possible team together for you.
>> All right. Thank you. >> I have the same six questions. So, have you ever done a master plan for the city that only includes private property? >> Yes and no. So, you know, it so um a lot of the master plans that we
see and that we participate in for for both public and private entities are majority privately owned properties. Um and you know understanding how those want to be designed uh is you know again a partnership with community private
owner the property owner themselves or developers and in the city. Um so we it is something that we see um a lot of times you have master plans for cities that include parks uh in you know different uh assets owned by the city or
the municipality themselves. U but it's not altogether terribly uncommon to see it. >> Thank you. uh the major entry roadway is from the Basco Bridge to Golf Bulver. What is your opinion as to excluding those from the master plan?
>> Right. So when we reviewed the RFQ, you know, in your you five locations that you indicated as priority zones, again, we don't see that as, you know, there's a solution for each individual that's, you know, separate from the others. And so it is your front door um in in many
respects. And so some of the policy recommendations and design recommendations that we would propose is part of this could be applicable to your roadways in general. It's not necessarily that it's not in it's not in. I think there's a there's some evolution in this and a lot of what we would recommend would be applicable to
that area regardless whether or not it's within one of the five zones. >> And for a private development project, what do you consider to be the minimum internal rate of return for a developer? I'll let uh Larry give you an exact uh
number on that, but part of what we do uh in advising local governments, you know, you you have to be responsive and you want to have a zoning code which is um usable by developers, that's functional, where they can create a development that works and they want to
invest in your community. Um but from a city perspective, it it has to be a balanced approach to where you're getting what you want to see. um you're not, you know, um you're not giving away too much. You're getting what you want. Um and it works
for the developers. So, I'll give Larry a chance to to also answer that question. >> I don't think there's a magic number. I think there's probably a range, something in the range of 15 to as much as 50% depending upon what the developer is trying to achieve. But more often than not, the developers have a feeling.
They have a sense. It's a community they want to be in. They have a reason that they want to be there. and they have an anchor in what they're what they're trying to do. Um, but certainly, you know, they're looking to develop a project that's going to put profit in their back pocket. But from the time you look at something, you say, "Okay, I'm
going to put a hotel over here to four years later when you open it up, whether or not you're going to make a profit, there's a whole lot of steps to get to that point." So, they may start with the budget that has a defined internal rate of return. At the end, they're just hoping to get out and still have made a profit.
>> Thank you. Uh so land prices are flat, construction costs have doubled in the last 5 years, and uh sales prices of homes are down 15 to 25%. How do we overcome that to encourage new people to live, work, and
or invest in Treasure Island? >> I I I think you're doing it. You know, you're wanting to analyze your codes. You want to understand, you know, where a certain code might work, where you might be restricting developers from being able to to invest in the community. You know, there's kind of
three main things in a community that you look at. You know, live, work, play. Understanding your own dynamics and what you have to offer in the community and then focusing your energy into a certain area uh would be really, you know, the critical path for those items. You know,
we work with a number of developers that have different priorities and they have different, you know, um analysis and how they see a project coming in. I don't think any one of those um conditions is an obstacle, so to speak. And there's opportunities in all of it. You know,
some of the residential developers that we work with, they they have a buy and hold philosophy or a build and hold philosophy to where they're not modeling their finances over, you know, a two or five year span. They're holding it for 30 years. So, if it works out at 30 years, then they're okay. Um, so, you
know, there's there's a number of factors in there. >> Thank you. And in general for a scope of work for the five private properties on similar past projects, what is the total cost and time expended at completion of the project?
>> A tough question. Like I said, with Lauderdale by the Sea, you know, we're doing a comp plan and a land development analysis for them and their own regulations, and they're biting it off in pieces. They didn't want to do they didn't want to commit to a really large project all at once. And so we're doing
an initial analysis for them, you know, ranging from, you know, 25 to 50 grand. And then, um, you know, there's going to be work after that. So, with everything that you've laid out, um, you know, six figures, you know, easily and, you know,
it just depends on the depth uh, that you want to get into with some of those designs and, you know, modifications and how long it takes. you know, we appreciated your approach to nine months, which could be considered aggressive from a timing perspective,
but also, you know, from your own position and wanting to be financially responsible for your community. If you let something drag out for several years, it's going to cost you a lot more money. So, if you have an aggressive approach which has specific targeted deliverables and guidelines that you
want to see, I think that's going to help you keep the cost down. in your uh graph that showed how many months would everything take, what do you see as more a revalent timeline like nine months or longer? >> I think it we can accomplish it in nine
months. I think from a design perspective and how many community meetings we're able to have, you know, some of one of the problems that we have with community meetings is it takes time. So, it's not just, you know, how long a meeting takes, but we want to send out notices and have people know that a meeting's coming, you know, weeks
in advance. And so, you know, if you're going to have multiple design cherettes, that that just stacks timing. So, that's going to be one of the longer processes and trying to get community feedback. And if we're coming up with designs and then going back to the community for additional feedback to show them what we
did with their initial feedback, that's an item which time, like I said, I think you can do it in nine months. It just, you know, the level of detail that you get into some of those master plan designs, you know, it might not be as as detailed. >> Gotcha. And last question, what
amenities and other factors are important in people's dissolutions to live, work, and invest in the city, and what do you see as the three major deficiencies in Treasure Island? So, I wouldn't necessarily call them deficiencies. I don't know if I can come up with three, but you know, one of the
biggest things that we look at when we're trying to design um when we are looking to place make to create something that's a center of a community or something that a community is proud of um a lot of it is um the pedestrian
orientation and the vehicular access. And so, um, just driving through Treasure Island, I I think your streetscape is a little, you know, non-uniform. There's certain areas which are really nice, other areas that are really urban in settings. So I think
having uh clear um policy and design guidelines for new development coming in even if it takes 20 years to get a uniform picture. If that developer knows coming in what his obligations are for beautifification of the city that helps
them it helps you. It helps the residents. So, um I think that's probably, you know, the main issue that I see, but other than that, I think, you know, what you're doing in this process is the solution.
>> Thank you. >> You went already. >> Ardan. Oh, okay. Um, yeah, I actually I forgot now. I actually had a lot of the same thoughts that Ardan did. I got a little scared when I saw the landscape architects up there and I I thought you were just going to come in and make our grounds look really good. Um and and I
was concerned about the financial aspect. Um so yeah, I had a couple questions. You also mentioned trade-offs and I want to get into that in a second. Um but I know your proposal stated that you will perform scenario-based financial modeling and proforma analysis
of priority redevelopment sites. co can you just give an example where you've done that from top to bottom as far as you know we we've talked about it a lot tonight I've asked this question in a different way to other people but you know developer level financing IRS um you know return thresholds structured
financing scenarios >> yeah absolutely Larry's going to be the best one to answer that but my my experience and cotler hearing experiences we work with developers on a daily basis in creating developments which are financially feasible understanding their needs needs uh from
you know a residential developer that needs a specific unit count to make the development work. Understanding the cost of structured parking to know that you know it's 25 to $35,000 per space and integrating that into a design. You know there's there's trade-offs in that
respect from a design perspective. But u Mr. Zet can give you a couple examples we're working on now. In Lake Park, Florida uh they implemented a beginning of a visions program in 2017. They adopted a code with a master plan in 2019. The
first piece of that opened up in December because we managed that project. It was a $300 million condominium, Nautilus 220. It's the southern anchor of the redevelopment along US1, their main their main drag. Included in that were 100 public parking spaces and other elements that will
contribute to a P3 agreement as well in terms of redevelopment of an adjacent marina. There are other developments looking to take place in the rest of Lake Park. now that have stem from that. So it it starts you got to start somewhere and in this case Lake Park started uh in a pretty good place in
Wellington, Florida where we're partnered with Carter and Herring and we're doing a similar project for lifestyle development which includes uh equestrian houses, hotels, commercial spaces, recreational areas. Wellington has had us do those types of analysis
throughout. In fact, they had Raph Telus come in and peer review our work and we got the thumbs up from Rafelis in that work. So, we're really uh pleased to see that. Um, but it's a process that we'll have to work through and it it will be dependent upon what you end up approving
for your master plan and your vision and then we can attack it piece by piece and component by component >> and experience with, you know, TIFF financing, development incentives, public private partnerships. I mean, is that all stuff you've done and have experience with? >> Yes, we're working with a couple of
CRAAS right now. Uh, in Riviera Beach, we're doing two projects with the Riviera Beach CRA and they're funding affordable housing projects. One of which we're actually partnered with Reg on. Uh, and in Lake Park, their community development, TIFF, uh, we're actually trying to talk them into
expanding it to include the marina because they pick up $300 million in taxable income. And there's possibility they may do that because that will give them more money to put into the tiff program for the rest of the city as well. >> And before earlier you mentioned tradeoffs. Um I think a key issue in the
master plan is going to be evaluating trade-offs such as allowing you know reduced parking requirements, increased heightened density, you know, in exchange for community benefits infrastructure. So you know are you what type of
financing modeling do you use for that? Are you are you experienced in doing that? >> We are experienced in doing it within our office. We've got another accountant. I've got three project managers and three research assistants that help me in that process. But we take whatever we're looking to do. In this case, let's take what you're
suggesting. If we want to do reduced parking, we'd have to have a a basis for it. We can't just say, "Well, we're going to go from two parking spaces per apartment to one because it makes sense." But we need to come up with a reason for it. People are going to Uber. It's all walkable from here. So, there
has to be a rationale. Otherwise, we're going to be dealing with the same parking problems long term. But once we make those decisions, we can do the modeling with uh both ways. if it need if a if a building needed a parking garage with 400 parking spaces versus
200, what the cost impacts are and how much that changes the potential rate of return for the developer by having to buy build the bigger amenity for uh more cars that really don't add to the value of his project because it would be the same number of apartments or condos or
whatever they were building. >> Gotcha. All right. Thank you. Anything else? I'd like to thank all of our presenters tonight. We uh we sure uh need some help and uh and we want to get done. So,
David, what do you take it from here? >> Uh absolutely. So, I want to allow you all as the committee a chance to discuss your your thoughts and and observations and um solicit comments from members of the public if you so choose before we
move on to the uh the the final rankings. Um, what I have for you related to that is much simpler than the process we went through a couple of weeks ago. >> Okay? >> You probably recall there were four evaluation criteria, each with a maximum
score of 25 points. It's going to be much simpler tonight. I'm simply going to ask each of you to rank your number one firm, number two firm, and number three firm. And then we'll take all that information collectively and see how it all washes out.
>> Okay. So, why don't we uh open this to public comment and um make sure that when you step forward that uh if you've not filled out a card that you tell them what district you're from and your address.
>> There aren't any cards, Mr. Mayor. >> Oh, okay. So, show of hands. Come on up. Okay. Scott McKenna 235 126 A Isa Capri
Treasure Island. Um it seems like it's a big giant plan to take on something like this. Uh the best way to approach it may be to do it in in in areas like concentrate on
one or two areas first. eat it elephant one bite at a time. Um trying to like you guys are concerned about getting a big master plan, spending all of that money and all that time and all that energy only to have it sit on the pl sit on the shelf because it seems overly complex and you may or may not get
investors to be interested. Also, uh it seems a squeaky wheel always seems to show up. >> So, thank you. >> This island really needs needs to move forward. We really really need to build
uh to have a whole bunch of five-story condominiums here with people that sit in their in their in their rooms and watch TV and and go to dinner one or two times a night. That's not going to grow our island. All of the business districts are going to die. We need to have hotels. We need to have things to
do. We need to have shopping. We need to have restaurants, public areas, excitement, enjoyment in this island. We don't need to say we want to be back in the 1970s. We need to move forward. So, please, I've talked to numerous business owners.
They're all dying. They're dying. They need people. I know it doesn't happen overnight, but the foundations happen soon. They happen now. The what you allow people to do to the develop going forward is important and it has to be
foot. One of these guys mentioned 20 years to do. It does. It's the vision you take now to move this island to what it's going to be in 20 years. Are we going to be a 1970s barrier island that nobody wants to be on? Who's going to want to live in that with a bunch of
little five-story condominions? You go to dinner once and twice a night, you know? So, I I want to see growth. I want to see visions. Um, don't do too much at once. Don't I mean, just But if it's a hotel, keep it a hotel. have people
coming and going. That stimulates business. That stimulates everything that people want to be. Also, if you have a bunch of smaller condos up and down the beach, it makes that beach, it it's not private property, but it sure feels that way. You lose the feeling of a beach and it's just a bunch of
residences of rich people along the water. So, um, think long term. Think visions. Think what can it be? What's exciting? What's what's it going to be a nice place to live? and visit and people want to talk about it. When they leave, they're going to say how great it was.
They had a good time. They don't want to say, "Man, that place was dead." You don't want that. So, squeaky wheel gets grease. I'm tired of hearing the negative. I want to hear positive and I want to build this island. >> Thank you very much. Yes, please step forward. >> Marie Barbara, District
4 and three. Um, I'm a little um just perplexed. I'm not sure how this works in my professional um experience as an engineer but in defense and weapon systems totally different right um I'm not sure if um we have um we usually
have RFQ and then we have the RFP and the RFP of course is more detailed with more financial um disclosures and other things but um so is there is there is there another step after this RFQ is there going to be an RFP a proper RFP
that is requested that when do you select are we selecting one person one team or one group or how are we doing this? >> We don't have a a conversation back and forth. It's just a one way and you tell us what you're thinking.
>> Oh, I thought this was quasi judicial and you can have a conversation but you cannot. >> No. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that's that was that's my >> Thank you. Anyone else hearing? None will close up.
Gilly. >> Hey, good afternoon. Good evening. Actually, uh I just want to say Gilead from the Thunderbird Hotel, one of the owners. Um I want to say that I think that this is in terms of the timing, this is the time element is very
important uh for us as a developer and for many other developers over here also. I think for the community, we hear it over here. Uh there's a lot of the key parcels over here in downtown right now that are just vacant and needs to get going.
Everything that we hear from you from the master planners uh that it nine months is going to be very very challenging and I think that's a consideration. I think if there's any task that is going to be taken, I think it should be much more specific and
probably much more phased in a way that it can be targeting those specific parcels that are with developers that are ready right now to move forward for development because you have to understand that also on our sides on the
uh you know we are there's very heavy investment that we did in properties and you know and those properties are not going to sit around for us too long without a return. So obviously we're going to build what we feel that is feasible and we want to go back and
rebuild the m the the Thunderbird but at the end of the day if it's going to be waiting around for another three years that's definitely a challenge for us and it it may take another course of direction and we don't want to have it happening. We feel this is the right
thing to do. This is the highest and best use but there has to be some sensitivity for uh the developers the land owners and also for the community because you know if there's no points of attractions over here for tourists to
come everybody is suffering so I think the main thing should be even if there is any task that need first of all I thank everybody that the sensitivity for the pod and I didn't hear anything but I think that was part of it is going back to the countywide rules, the ability, if
you put the POD, you also have to make sure that you have the countywide rules ability to allow for those additional flexibility in the code. Without it, we really can do anything with the POD without having that resource. Uh so the
promotion of that is very very important and if there's anything that we want to do in terms of like the master plan I think we should do something that's going to be first of all very focused on those main elements of the town that are
ready to go. I can tell you 100% certainty that we are ready to go. We have a team that is ready to go. uh we are, you know, eager to come back to business and build something that is going to be fitting for us, for the community. We're willing to go through
this process of back and forth with the city and getting things done quickly, but the time element is very crucial. Like I said, if it's going to be few years, that's definitely an issue. Right. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Okay, Mr. Basel. Uh Robert Vazo 760 Capri District 1. Um couple things. One, this this is a this process, this massive planning process is a great idea. It needs to continue. We need to make the uh make it happen.
Um nine months should be a target date. Um I support the catalyst project idea. I want to see Thunderbird. I want to see Pyus Square uh go to the top of the top of the list and and and and and be focused on and maybe we can do that
first. I I believe that. But I mean, the last uh the last uh owner I I great respect for him. We're we're both veterans. Um but again, it's it's it's kind of like the the time thing and who's driving the train. It's it's really our it's our city. It's the
residents. And I respect very much that he's concerned about time and that the other developers are concerned about time. I respect that. I I mean, I like the Thunderbird project. I mean, I really want to start that, but we need to remember the history and perhaps if
it wasn't rushed, if uh if the system was used properly to look at changing zoning, >> please address your comments to the to the commission. >> I'm sorry. the um I think it hurt I think I think it hurt
the idea um the process that we tried to maybe go too quickly to have a private developer drive the train drive our community development department to make changes instead of going through the proper way. I personally like the Thunderbird. I
like Pyro Square but we need a master plan. We need a vision. We need an organization. We need a company that is unbiased, expert, and non-aggenda-driven. Somebody with the the least amount of experience with Treasure Island. Um,
Kimley Horn, for instance, thank goodness we didn't choose them. I like these three presentations a lot. There's some great expertise there. I like some of the subcontractors that are going to be brought in. I I like it. I find a little bit some doubt here that we're not going to do this process. We need to
do the master planning process, but we also need to put Thunderbird and Pirate Square at the top and do it simultaneously. So, I I sense some doubt here about this. Let's do it. Let's make it happen. And I want to see Thunderbird and I want
to see Pirate Square get to the top. But again, we are driving this. We as a residents, not developers. We're a team. Let's work together. Thank you. >> Thank you, Robert. Mr. Vasy. >> Uh, good evening. Uh, Andrew Vasey,
District 2. Um, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to speak after the Thunderbird. Um we heard what a what a terrific um development that was and then we got through a first reading of the ordinance and uh um a lot of people
were opposed to the process as Mr. Bazo just spoke that you were jamming through changes to the zoning and the LDRs on the premise that this one project needed to go and there were issues raised about
conflicts of interest and and a whole number of things that went off. So, we came around to the second reading of the ordinance and lo and behold, Thunderbird has their lawyers there. They think they've got the thing nailed. RM50 is going to get approved. They're going to
go forward with their nice big project, 180 something rooms. And who knew? Those of us sitting in the back of room knew one of the commissioners was going to flip their vote that night. And then the other one, it made sense because given
an ethics issue that had been raised, it was an easy out. So now we come around to this master plan process that that we're looking at. And we look back at RM50 and we see similarities. Now, we
know from commissioner comments made the first week of January that there's a bunch of unusual stuff going on around this city. And there's sort of a syndicate out there that has some objectives that are tied to this master
plan, that are tied to RM50, and that are tied to PDS. And the way the story goes is if you suppress the pricing in the RM50 zone, then it makes a great opportunity to
purchase land to then come in and blow out a big PD and build whatever you can build right up on the water. So in order to do that though, if you had passed RM50, the land prices had go would go up. So that makes then that scheme not
work. So the appropriate thing to do for that business syndicate is to pressure off of RM50 to kill it and to pressure to kill the this master plan process. And there was a specific person in this master plan process that was named and
targeted. Now, what I find most disappointing about this, I don't this the scheme, it's the scheme, it's people trying to do business is that when the comments were made in early January, there are three of you up there who know the the details behind what's going on.
And you, the three of you that know the details know what the target was as part of this master plan process. Okay? Thunderbird could have had their deal, but the syndicate didn't want Thunderbird to have their deal. And that's why the rug got pulled out from underneath you. Okay? So now they've
come back and offered you, oh, PDS are going to be the magic solution now that we took away because we're going to suppress the value of the land on the water by changing our votes on RM50. Okay? So now you're you run this process
and the three of you up there running the process, making it secret, withholding the proposals from everybody know full well what the syndicates operation is trying to do and who they're trying to kill off from the master plan proposal. So, I think it's
just shameful that this process has been broken by a by a horrible scoring process by withholding the proposals from the public until 24 hours. So, the same cast of characters come back. Applied sciences is back. Hey, how many
checks do I have to hand them to get a permit? Okay, they're on one of the teams. One of the people tonight's owned by Safe Built, who did all the inspection and everything when we were having permit debacles. And then the third one, um, the third one that's back is Kimley Horn in the lead. They're on
day 540 of trying to generate a simple filter ordinance. So, I don't really understand where the backbone is among some of you up there who had full knowledge of what's going on here and let this process go and come down to this. And I I just think it's
disappointing. It's why there's no trust in you as an organization and that you and what's worse than the people who are trying to jam this up is those of you who have knowledge of it and are permitting this to happen. Thank you. >> Thank you.
All right. I'm not seeing anything else. So, we'll close the comments and now we need to take a vote or a discussion and then take the vote. Correct. >> Uh that's correct. You can discuss if
you like or you can just read off your rankings to me. >> Yeah. So who who says that we have to do it this way? I mean I I um I have never in my life interviewed I've hired a lot
of people. I've never in my life hired four candid you know uh interviewed four candidates in a day and made a decision uh you know two minutes after I interviewed them. Um we have another meeting on Monday. I've learned a ton
tonight. I took a ton of notes. I found out that you know uh Ref Telus did our wastewater plan which I if I remember correctly I hated. So, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I want to go back and take a look at, and I'm willing to come
back on Monday and have my three, you know, finalists, but I I don't I don't No, no, no one says we have to do this tonight. Who's telling us that we have to come up with three people right tonight? We're the commission. We should be able
to decide whether we want to do that or not. And I mean, and I I guess I guess we'll hear that four days is gonna is going to make a difference in in someone rebuilding their property. I mean, is what we'll probably hear. But I mean, I I just this just this this this doesn't
make any sense. I mean, I think we maybe have someone we can work with here, but I I I'm not I I want to do more research, and a lot of the stuff I learned tonight, I want to take a look at. >> Good morning, commissioners. So you are
are commissioners but today we're you are voting members for the RFQ. So it is our responsibility me and Dave to take this to the to the home plate and and to finish the RFQ. If if the majority of you don't want to vote today or don't
feel ready to vote today, we can reconvene. However, we are going to be very aggressive to get this to the finish finish line. We're going to finish this process and we're going to finish the RFQ. So, h if you are not ready with the boat today,
we're we're going to set up a date for for you to vote. You have the presentations already. You have the the proposers, you have everything you need. If you need extra research or time, we give it to you. But my plan is to get this to the finish line. >> I mean, I want to discuss it. I don't
want to just >> Sure. I >> Yeah, I definitely think we need to discuss it. Um it I mean we knew what we were coming here to do. >> I mean and and we've all had had our research and and I have to say after
listening to all three I kind of changed around my thought process as far as who I had um really considered one, two, and three. Um but the one thing of listening to the three and I'll be interested to
hear what you all think. Um I heard a lot of the same thing um about um you know reviewing the comp plan to see if that's what you know needs to be done. Um they all agree on the PDS which
again we're the only municipality in Penllis County that doesn't have them. So to me that's that's common sense. Um that's not going out on a limb to do something crazy. um they've all three agreed, but I've heard so much of um of
different things that's such an overlap of what we already have. Um we hired the law firm we have and paid a lot more than we were paying mostly for their land use um expertise. I mean, obviously all of their other,
but all of us when we were discussing it and we were going through um, you know, the the different options, we loved that our new attorney that we chose and that we agreed to pay more money for, they're
land use attorneys within within there. Um, why do we have a person on staff, and I'm not trying to target, but why do we have a person on staff, an an economic development person
on staff if we need to hire another company to bring in investors to invest in our city? Doesn't make sense to me. That's another overlap. Um, yes, we have been working with
Kimley Horn to um to redo our LDRs. That all stopped when the master plan came up. That all halted. That was already in the process of being done. Phase one was done and we were moving on to phase two.
All of that stopped. Um, again, that's something we've already contracted to do. That's an overlap. And when we start talking about the time frame, which I am not at all surprised.
I've said it from day one that there's no way and and it's naive to think that this is going to get done in n in nine months and be done properly. Um, and I also think that it is very
not naive is not the right word, but I think it's it's um it's troublesome that we believe that our property owners who were also devastated by the storms as we were should have to wait again for another meeting and another this for us
to make up our minds and and whatever we're going to do to even consider them being able to rebuild when everything that we've heard tonight with the exception of the feasibility study um to
find out where we need to be in our our building, you know, as far as height, density, all of that. Everything else we pretty much have in house um to so I'm I'm a little surprised even to be
honest with you. um you know when we were talking to and forgive me if I'm saying it um wrong that Rafelis I think I'm saying it right you know I love the aspect of negotiating a contract with them to come in and do a feasibility study
um possibly start suggesting the changes if if that's what's needed to be done um but in the meantime I still think we have to move forward we have to move forward with with PDS we have to get back to looking at our comp plan and
working on that phase two. It's stuff we've already contracted to do and to say that uh you know I agree that no I don't believe that Pirate Square or the Thunderbird or or whatever properties
need to be a priority. Why should one be a priority over the John's Pass property that's been sitting for 13 to 14 years? It's been sitting empty, >> 18 years. So to to me they're all important because they all look like garbage and they all have a fence around
them and to sit and wait while we all argue about you know whether we should take a vote now or a vote then or whatever when we've had three different companies tell us the majority of what we already
have and we have an overlap of. So th that's my like kind of start off on on my comments. I just I think we have to start moving forward with PDS and and things like that. Um but I do like the
idea of the feasibility study. >> Okay. So I I'm going to go back to David here. Um are we we're still in the committee mode. >> Yes. And the committee is going to make a recommendation and that recommendation
then is going to go to the commission for a vote. Correct or no? >> So the committee's role is to come up with a final ranking of presenters. >> Correct. So, the information you heard tonight and the information that you
read in the proposals, that's what we need to kind of wrap up now. And then based on how the rankings turn out, that would go back to the commission as to what you would what you'd like to do.
>> And that would be tonight as well, >> if you so choose. The rankings will be complete, but how you want to move forward based on those rankings would be up to the commission. >> Mayor, similar to the public safety
building, you are going to vote today. If the majority of you as the member voting members decide you are not ready to take the vote to Commissioner Clark point, you can say that as well. We set up a different date, but that's up to you. You are the five voting members. So
if you decide to go ahead and vote today, which is what we prefer because I I I want this to get to the finish line. Otherwise, we set up another day. If we set up one company today, what we bring in a commission meeting is a for you a
motion to start uh to direct the city manager to start negotiations with this company. >> Okay. So your anticipation was that we would take a vote as a committee and take a vote as the commission. >> Yeah, we bring an item to right maybe to
the >> So the committee is not voting the committee just >> the committee is basically passing along I I Okay. But but there we are then expected or what your expectation was was a vote >> a vote for the RFQ. We need to finish the RFQ. I the the reason I prefer the
voting to happen today is because I I have to be very careful and I'm protecting the process the RFQ process for from contamination. So uh if uh if we can get a vote today to the RFQ that doesn't give us directions to start
spending money. We're going to bring the item to the board to a motion to start negotiating with this first company. But if we choose to, we can make a motion after we pick the top three. We could make a motion as the commission. >> This is a special meeting. You can you
can >> you could make a motion and and um ask staff to begin negotiating with the highest rank. >> And that was the expectation. >> Correct. >> Yes, >> you can do that tonight as well. >> Okay. >> I'd like an opportunity to weigh in on
this. Uh I I'm going to side with Commissioner Clark on this. I think a lot of this information, first of all, I enjoyed the presentations a lot. It did clear up a lot of questions I had. So, I appreciate that. Uh, but but there's a lot of I I got hit in the last 24 hours with a lot of complaints from residents
that said that were concerned about how quickly we moved uh once we made the information available. We we just uh just yesterday late yesterday afternoon uh we made available the the three written proposals on this group. Many
people that aren't here today that may be watching this on live stream or we'll watch it later uh haven't had an opportunity to hear from them either. So I think holding off another four or five days uh to get uh to give you the number
you want uh is a wise course of action. >> Okay. Commissioner Sesan. Uh, >> well, I would like to know, please. >> Yeah, I would like to know from Victor. Um, what do you mean by contamination? >> No, I we need to make sure that that you are still in open RFQ. You cannot be
talking about this RFQ as a voting member. So, this just take more more days on that laps of time of time. >> I understand the homework assignment. So, I'm ready to vote today. >> And I'm ready to vote as well. So, we have three that uh that are ready to
vote. So, let's go ahead and do the vote. >> So, I I guess I'll just go from left to right. I'll start with Commissioner Clark. If you could give me your rankings of the three firms in order. Who's your number one firm? Who's your
number two firm? Who's your number three firm? >> I mean, I'm not really prepared to do that. >> Vice Mayor M. Vasquez, would you like to? >> Yes. Uh, my first would be Ruff Tillis. My second would be I'm just going to say
Calvin. And my third would be, and forgive my pronunciation, um, Colt Colts. Am I saying that right? >> Cutotler. Sorry, >> Mayor Doctor.
>> My first would be Rap Tillis. My second would be Cutotler and hearing. And the third one would be Kelvin Gordano >> Commissioner Saison. >> So I've always been against a master planner and I'm not ranking any of them
cuz I'm I'm against spending the money waiting this 9 to 2 and 1/2 years. Uh only we had a 2006 master plan and it's sat on the shelf. Uh, it's only, you know, it makes no sense to me that it's
five private property locations that are included in master plan. It should be all of Treasure Island or nothing. Uh, it's going to take too long for for it to finish in my opinion. Looks like beyond 9 months, closer to two years. I think we need to be going now with PDs.
>> But we are not we're not just to be clear, to make sure we're clear, we're not ranking to hire. We're just doing that to move to the next >> negotiate. Right. >> Potentially. Yes. To make the motion for that. I just wanted to be clear on that. >> I'm not ranking any of them. Kind of
like Commissioner Clark. >> I have Can I ask a question real quick? >> What What would keep us from getting uh a a a price from all three of these folks and that would then give us the time to look into them, you know, have a decision to say this is the one I want
to go to. >> I understand the question. And I I believe we we need to negotiate with the with the first because it's a RFQ that so the cost is it should not be discussed in the RFQ. If this was a RFP then we we could discuss the cost but cost is not a factor on this.
>> I mean again if I could get 48 hours to review all the stuff I heard tonight. I'm ready to vote. Um uh but you know that it's ridiculous that that it just Yeah. >> Okay. So, the way I'm reading it, Darden,
>> I don't this isn't going to do any good with two two or three of us not voting. So, we've all got to vote or or or put it off until we're ready to vote. But I I can't see going with just what we have up there right now. And >> can I ask the city attorney?
>> All right. So, city attorney, yes, please. They uh I know that when you are a commissioner, you must vote. You cannot not >> typically our evaluation committees are made up of staff and staff all votes. >> Typically our evaluation committees are
made up of staff and staff all votes and then they present the top >> and if staff does not want to vote. >> That never happens. Staff always votes. >> Okay. So I'm going to ask is this a legal push to to take the uh the next
vote? Um, is this a legal vote that we basically have Rest Hill or Raf Tillis has won >> and the other opted not to vote >> like um >> but they're not going to >> like staff has said he's trying to
preserve the process. So, you're kind of contaminating the process by not everybody voting. So, but you can go and go forward. We also have in the RFQ that we can wave any requirements and um we have a disclaimer in there. So, can can I ask start a question?
>> Hold on a second. I'm still looking for an answer cuz I I don't think that I've got one. >> It's preferable that you all vote. >> It's preferable. Is what's the legal opinion on it? >> Legal opinion don't have to. >> Okay. So, that we we would basically move forward with Raf Tillis.
>> I don't know the results here. Commissioner Dicki, is he been asked whether he wants to vote? >> He he basically said he does not want to vote. If if all of us are going to vote, I'm I'm going to go ahead and vote here. Let's put I'm putting uh Cotler and Herring one,
uh Raf Tillis at two, and Calvin at three. >> Okay. So, I guess that Anyone else want to vote? If not, we tally them up and the low score is the number one. >> Okay? >> Then we can go to the commission and you
can see if you want to proceed with the project or don't want to proceed with the project or if you want to begin negotiations with the first that can all be done as the commission and you can do that tonight or you can do that Monday. Okay. So let's first clear up this issue
of the committee meeting. And so we have I I don't I can read it, but I'd like to see the votes >> somebody here to tell the votes based on the the rankings that we have. So column G adds up the scores for each of the
firm. Rafelis Financial Consultants comes in with the lowest total of four making them the highest rated firm. Top and hearing is the second rated firm. Calvin Jordano and Associates the third ranked firm.
>> Do you want to fill in the box that says final rankings one, two, three? >> I I also want to give again because we want to make sure the opportunity to commissioner Zissong and Clark if they want to vote.
>> We have given them that option and I don't need to to please All right. So, we're going to uh move forward with the recommendation being Rafillis. >> And I want to make clear this wasn't a vote. This is just a ranking.
>> It is correct. >> Right. >> It's a ranking. And >> when we get to the actual voting on motions, you'll have to vote. >> That That is correct. Everyone will have to vote. >> Yeah. >> All right. So now what we have is basically the opportunity
to do a motion. >> Let's um let's close the uh the evaluation committee. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Yes. Close it and let's close the committee meeting >> and now all of a sudden we waved the magic wand and we're commissioners. >> Yes.
>> Okay. So uh so do we want to vote on that this evening? Do we have a motion? So we have a recommendation from the evaluation committee of Raphelis number one, Colier number two and Calvin Jordano number three. Those were the
recommendations that were made to the commission. So now it's your discussion uh from the commission as to what you would like to do uh with this from here. >> All right, >> let's do you want to make a motion? >> Let's make a motion. >> All right, I'm going to go ahead on a
and do my motion. See what happens. Um, I move that um the city manager negotiate a contract for a feasibility study um with Reptilis while the city staff moves forward with
um putting in PDS. I guess that would be the end of it. So I would I >> think that would be a separate Okay. That's >> Yeah, that would be a separate I think that's set the PD part separate. But I think here you're saying that you would
like to go forward with a uh >> yes >> with with the um master plan only with regard to a feasibility study and that you ask staff to negotiate with Rafelis for only the feasibility study portion of the
>> correct >> aster plan scope. Correct. >> Okay. So, are are we giving the city manager >> So, yes, the I'll say it one more time. >> Okay. >> I move that the city manager negotiate a
contract with Reptilis for the feasibility study only at this time. >> Is do we have a second? >> Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. So, uh we let's discuss from here. Um
do we do you have what you need with this motion? If it's voted to move forward with the motion that was made and seconded, then I think what I'm hearing the vice mayor say is we reduce the scope of the RFQ we
put out and reduce it down to a feasibility study on five privately owned properties that are articulated in the RFP. Is that the >> That's correct. >> Okay. And so that's going to be timely
versus having them move forward with the uh the entire master plan. >> Well, that will take less time. I don't I don't remember any of you asking them or any of the presenters committing to how long that would take, but that would
be one of the early deliverables. We >> Yeah, it's an early deliverable. >> Okay. All right. >> All right. Can we talk about this? We we can start negotiations as it is if in the RFQ and the part of the negotiation the the company the contractor can face
out and and put the feasibility and and all the factors so we can complete the RFQ as as it is as part of >> okay that's >> yeah that's not >> that's not what the motion is
>> imagine could we victor Mhm. >> If y'all vote and then I'll ask more questions because I'll have them. >> Okay. All right. So, we got a motion and a second. Do we have any discussion? >> Absolutely.
>> Okay. First of all, I don't know how this went from uh >> on a your mic's off. >> Thank you. Uh I don't know how this went from from us talking all about a master plan to a to a feasibility study. I've always thought the feasibility study
should be the first step in the master plan. So, uh I don't think anybody I I didn't hear anybody other than Vice Mayor Vasquez uh lobby for Mitchen uh uh killing the master plan completely. >> I never said killing it. Never said
never said killing it. I'm just talking about to get started out of the gate. we have to because of the amount of time that all three agreed we have to start moving forward >> and the first step which we've all discussed is the feasibility study
because that's the early deliverable anyway >> um but as I mentioned in our discussion we have so many um overlaps and I just don't feel it's fiscally
responsible to go full all in and and and when we do have so many overlaps when the main thing we need right now is a feasibility study to start moving things forward and then >> I want to move things forward and I want the feasibility study and I never said
kill it >> to be the first step but this community has made it very clear for for a very long period of time that they wanted to see a master plan and uh and if you're suggesting we do a physibility study then come back later and go through this entire process again and find somebody
to do a feasibility study. That's completely different than what we've asked the people to come to and present us tonight. Uh it's completely different than what we've led the community to believe that we're going to be doing. We've we've talked about doing a master
plan. And again, I'm all for having the feasibility study as a first step or not a first step, but the early deliverable in that process. I think that's a very good idea. >> Yeah. And I can I make a comment? Go ahead. >> I want to agree with Ardan 100%. Please
don't take my not voting as me not wanting a master plan. I just wanted, you know, 48 hours or till Monday to make sure I picked the right firm. Um because I think it's a huge decision for our city. And I think, you know, I I this whole process has been just I'm not
a big fan of it. But um you know, I going back to this time thing time thing time thing. The only person that I'm aware of that has plans and is supposedly ready to build is the Thunderbird. And I think we've all up here said we could we could do that we
could put them number one along with the master plan and work to get them done. I don't know of anyone else. We keep praying about these other place. You know >> other places that with no no plans >> no plans and no financials and if they're about ready to build then
where's their plans and their financials? I just don't I don't get it. But my question is, how can we move forward with a master plan and allow the Thunderbird to build at the same time? Because then that's an and correct me if I'm wrong,
um, city attorney, that that would be showing preferential treatment if we're making every other property owner wait until the master plan's done before they could build, but we're allowing one. And I don't want to single them out because I don't mean it that way. But if you
allow one property owner to jump ahead and everybody else has to wait until the master plan is complete. >> I'm not sure. >> That's what it sounded. >> Why would it jump ahead? >> No, no, that's that's what it sounded like. >> No, that's not what I was saying. >> Okay, that's what I was asking. >> No, they're the only ones that appear to
be ready to go right now. I agree with that. >> We could help them. I'm sure these people could help. Do you want to restate your motion or withdraw your motion? And basically it when I came here I was basically going to do a master plan. >> Yeah.
>> And not just a feasibility study. Okay. >> I think it if >> would you be willing to back pull yours off and redo it as for the master plan? >> I will resend my motion and somebody else can make a motion.
>> Okay. No, I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. Okay. So, now we're basically at the we rescended the motion. >> I make a motion to move forward with the master plan uh with Rick Telis.
>> Okay. Do we have a second? >> A second. >> All right. We have a motion and a second. Any more discussion? Roll call, please. >> Great. Public comment. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Public comment. You're absolutely correct. >> I think when you said move forward, you
move forward with negotiation. >> Yes. >> Okay. Is there a mic here? This is different. >> Yes, there is. >> Okay. Great. Sarah Pennington, uh, District 2. I wanted to point out a couple things. Um we have been hearing that these um certain businesses have
been held back from building and it's not fair and I will say that those businesses or developers are welcome to build right now under the current restrictions and land development regulations. So no one is stopping them from building anything right now.
They're welcome to do so. There is a five over one condo building breaking ground on G Boulevard this week. Um, my biggest concern that I have is there is this huge push for PDS now. Huge. It's like if anyone has ever seen the movie
Idiocracy where they talk about Brondo, it's what plants love. It's like PDs, that's what cities love. And really, it sounds like it's what developers love. I am not anti-development. I 100% want our town to develop. But for us as residents
to believe that PDS are going to be this magic tool in the toolbox and that what's so great about it, what's pushed to us about PDS, what's so great, we're told, is that it's because it takes all the public input. Well, the track record
for public input has been absolutely horrible. So, that is a major consideration for us. There has not been enough um public input that has been accepted from the commission and certainly not from any developers. If
you read any online, if any single resident says, "Hey, I don't want to do maximum Panelis County development." They're instantly singled out as anti-development. They're told, "If you don't own this property, it's none of your business. You shouldn't have a say in this. Uh what is your experience in
developing property? You haven't developed anything." basically saying you should have no opinion to be allowed. I have seen this over and over. So the strong push for PDs really concerns me and I would like to step back from that and get on track with the
master plan as suggested. >> Thank you Sarah. Mr. Bazo >> Robert Bazo District One. Uh I guess I I guess PD is as a catnip. I mean it's it's a wonderful uh wonderful term. U
couple things. Um five equal commissioners. Okay. Equal. One commissioner seems to take over and take charge. And if you noticed that last motion included verbage had nothing to do with anything that any any of the
reasons that we're here before. And comm uh Commissioner Dicki, you're spot on. The word PD never should have been in that in that uh in that motion. And the fact that it is is extremely alarming. It's disturbing. Um, we need to uh we
need to vote tonight. I think we will establish that. The motion that Commissioner Clark uh Commissioner Clark said is spot on. Comm Commissioner Dicki you're is spot on. Uh let's get this done. Let's move forward. uh we're not taking we're not uh giving preferential
treatment to to Thunderbird or uh Pyro Square but they are ready to go. So I mean the word is catalyst project. Okay. I think they've done a lot of great basic work. That's why I mentioned those two. We're not giving them preferential treatment. Now PDS are an effective
planning development tool. By all means it is. But it's part of a master plan. The master plan is the book. The PDS are the chapters. People here are are saying we need to go PDS. PDS. The last speaker was spoton. There's a reason for that
and I don't trust the reason. If anybody here is using the term PD out loud, I I I think they're suspect. Master plan process, get it underway. PD is going to be important part of that. And I I tell you, residents need to be on top of this
pyramid. We are in charge of this community, not developers. Let's work together as a team. But I believe in teamwork, public private partnership, master planning process and PD is going to be a big part of it. And the catalyst
project should be Thunderbird and Pirate Square because they've done a lot of the planning already, a lot of the thought, a lot of a lot of the work has been done. That's why they should be the catalyst program. We want something built. We want something built now. Smart development. And please don't use
the word PD again tonight. Let's vote on the master planning process. Thank you. >> All right, Barbara, >> Marie, Barbara, there's a lot of confusion and it's not just with the public. It seems like it's with the
commission board because you cannot stop somebody not to build something under the current LDRs, under the current building codes. Now, you cannot unless there's um they ask for something they that they're not
going to get a variance on or we have used PDs here before. I think you've known I think we've talked about the PD that we used before on the Pirate Square area and it was voted down after because they had to get a dense they asked for a density increase from 22 units an acre
to 66 and it so the commission had and still has at this time. We still stand firm with that that to get an increase in this density, you are going to have to go and take the vote. uh because our charter has language in it that commands
one ordinance out of all the hundreds that we have here in Treasure Island that that ordinance on heighten density in 2002 that was taken in 2002 and the language that was added in 2005 in our charter stipulates that that ordinance
is not a regular ordinance is a citizen initiative ordinance and we had it in our charter in 2005 but there's a lot of confusion If the Thunderbird wants to build under our current LDRs, let them do it. You nobody can stop
them. Even if you have a master plan, they have their time frame. Talk about ROI. Talk about, you know, return on your investment. You got to go now. So, this is all getting kind of confused and um um I think there needs to be more
discussion about this, I think, so that the commission board doesn't confuse the public. Okay. Anyone else? Basy. Mr. Bassy. This is great. We just There are three things that people are trying to take
down as a group in this town. Okay. I just named them. Kill the master plan, defeat RM50, and go with PDs. We just heard two of them in one motion. Then after after I spoke 10 minutes ago on it, this is absolutely incredible. Now
they tried to get three votes to get those three things through. Kill the master plan, need three votes. Kill RM50, need three votes, got the third one that time. Okay. And now push through PDS. And you, Charlie, the city
manager, you know this is going on and you're enabling it through this process. This is just remarkable. the the the people who under who know about this scheme and the activities that are related to it are all sitting here tonight and you're doing nothing about
it. So you you just heard two of the three brought forward. I don't know what you guys are thinking up there tonight and the residents have had it. We're we're into litigation, right? We got commissioners suing residents. We're we're all loaded up and ready to go. So,
let's just have it out because this is just it's incredible. It should be a reality TV show. It's It's so bad. >> Yes, Barb. >> Barbad Adams, Isa Palms. Um, I'm just going to make this like one minute, but
what's important is you guys are elected by the residents and you need to listen to us. It's not about two or three people in the community making a decision for the community. You need to listen to us because
we we voted for you because you we thought you were going to represent us. So, please listen to us. >> West Evans is palms district 2. Uh, color me shocked that this is all fudged up
tonight and in chaos. Uh, we knew this was coming because two or three weeks ago when uh this was narrowed down from 9 to three, the whole process was uh not done in an honest way. There was
people uh several of you guys up there um uh doing personal uh grievances, taking personal grievances uh that you have with each other and putting those into your rankings. Uh due
to that, I'm not saying uh these three are bad at all, but did we really get the best three of the nine up here? I can't say because we couldn't see what uh the proposals
were until last night and uh we had to depend on you guys. But instead of getting an honest answer from you guys and the honest vote, we got I don't want this one because these guys know that guy.
Uh, I don't want this one because this person over here knows something about them uh over in Madiraa Beach or whatever there. It wasn't an honest process. Uh, it it has given us
not the best options for our city and we're talking about something that's going to uh change our city forever. This is what it's going to be from here on out. and you guys took your personal grievances
and you're choosing that over what's best for Treasure Island. Once again, thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Billy. >> First of all, I want to thank everybody
that supports the Thunderbird. We've been around over here in Treasure Island both in the Thunderbird and the Surf Style site and the McDonald sites for the last 30 years and we're speaking over here not only as a developer that coming to make a quick buck as a but as
a property owner and as as another one another people from the community and I think in terms of the PD I there's different opinions over here uh but uh I think we heard all the master planners saying
that this is a a recommended vehicle to move forward. We're definitely for it. There is really nothing that and some some people also from the community mention it. In order really to execute things that are beyond the current code, you have to have a different vehicle to
be able to create those flexibilities and the PDS is one of them and the county rules is another one. So we cannot expect to be doing anything that is outside of what's currently existing without creating those vehicles. So I
think those vehicles are necessary. Um I I think that uh we uh people talked about over here that yeah we have the opportunity to build what's currently allowed by code but you have to understand also that what's allowed by
code uh when it comes to those catalytic projects or project that are involved a lot of capital if there is not and again this is things that also was questions already to the master planners if there's not enough margin over there that's going to protect the developer to make such a
huge investment without putting him himself at the risk. They're not going to take that action. So what happened right now there's different scale. There's one scale that is clear water that we all understand Clear Water Beach that we all understand that Treasure Island does not want to be Clear Water Beach. But there's another scale which
what's existing right now that's really holding everything for moving forward. And we look at that downtown is empty. The beach wherever is got affected is not redeveloping. and and people that are redeveloping. Yeah, they're redeveloping things that are smaller
scale, but not things that when we look at those plans right now that identify specific areas that one of needs to be redeveloped in in order for developers to come and step up to do it, we really have to allow to for them to have their vehicles. So again, it's for first of
all, I want to thank you all. I know that you guys are working hard. There's different mix of opinion but at least from my personal experience with all of you I know that you guys are working hard and trying to get everything and it's always an acting balancing between the parties. Uh I think you know
long-term master plan is a it's a blessed thing to do. uh it's definitely times something is going to be time consuming like I said before I think that those project that's not necessarily only us but whoever that is
identifying on those specific target areas that are essential for the city and is ready to go the commission along with the public needs to allow them to go as long it doesn't skyrock we're not looking to do things that are completely
outside of the realm of what's already existing but we need to have that support to get moving. If it's us, if it's the pirate square or any other property, it's only going to be a benefit to the town, it's going to be a benefit for the developers, and it's going to get things moving. We have to
make sure that we give those tools for everybody to get moving forward. Like I said, PD is important, the county rules is important, and as long as this does not, you know, conflict with the uh um uh with the master plan, I think we we
we should move forward with that. >> Thank you, Gilly. Anyone else? Yes, Marcus. Good evening. Marcus Winters, 8:30 Capri Boulevard. Um, I'm a resident, but I'm
also a business owner in the city. Um, we're talking about a master plan. I think a master plan is a great idea. Right now, we live in a city where I'm lucky enough that my business that I'm able to was able to work with the city that I was able to put a tent up and I
was able to survive. I don't know how this gentleman I don't know how half of the other businesses in town are able to survive being closed down. You're saying that in one said yeah you can build under current codes.
You can't build on the current codes. You this poor gentleman over here the amount of money it's going to cost him to do and build on the current code he might not survive. I know how much
um constructions cost. You talked to the uh three candidates that were here tonight. They both said PDs are a good idea. They're in every other city. I've been involved in a couple of projects that are PD. The city of Treasure Island say we can't
do BDs. We can't do PDs. The system works. Everybody gets a gets a a a speak on what's going in. the people that we voted democratically to run our city, to be on our commission, make the vote on what is going to be built in our city.
My big problem that I have with this master plan is we're going to go out, we're going to spend a nine months. I've been doing stuff with city government for a long time. Nothing happens in nine months. You're kidding yourself. 9
months, a year and a half, 250 to plus thousand to do this master plan. And if the master planner stands up here and said, "Yes, I believe for Treasure Island to go forward that we should have height and we should increase density
and the negative people in this city don't even want it. Treasure Island is never going to go forward. The city looks like a apocalypse. It'll stay apocalypse. I live in this city. I don't like to leave the city to go and have dinner to buy a cup of coffee. I have to
because it's not available in the city. Why? There's a reason why. There's a reason. You're the commission. You're the city. You're here to make this community viable. Make it viable. But this this is not going to work.
That's not going to work. This city will stay the same with 1970 hotels. We have to move in the future. We have to do development. We have to make more money to pay for all this stuff. But the bickering and the over and back and I'm not voting and I'm not voting.
You guys saw what was on the thing. Why are you wasting time? Just move forward and get this city back up and open. >> Anyone else? Donna, >> good evening. Mayor, doctor, vice mayor Vasquez, commissioners, residents. Um,
one of the things, um, I do pay attention to the resident feedback and everything. One of the things I've seen on social media is that residents are want the master plan and they would support a PD if it comes from a master planner. One of the things we heard from
all three master planners that are presented is that they're all four PDs. So, um, in my opinion, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect business sense. While you guys are figuring out which direction to go or how to do it, let's get everything else in place. Why are we
wait Sorry, I'm nervous. Um, you know, not just for the PDS, for us, we happen to still need comprehensive plan amendments. So, why would we not be loading that toolbox? Uh, one of the things that was previously said was that um, the master planner is like a
quarterback. That is so true, but any head coach or any team would be getting all of their other players ready while they're looking for that quarterback. Um, otherwise they're setting everybody up for failure. So, it's like we have everything. Everybody knows what way
they want to go or how or not what way to go. That's up for dispute. But everybody knows what the tools are that are needed. But nobody wants to put them in place. So we need to get everything in place ready. So then when whatever
master planners decided they can start why why should we have to wait until the master planners in place then for them to tell us to put the PDs in place that they already told us are needed. So it's just wasting time time. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you Donna. Anyone else? Okay. I'm going to close the public comment >> and can I say something really quick? >> Uh, sure. >> So, I mean, um, I was I remember having a conversation with Ralph and Becky and they mentioned that they could draft an
ordinance for a PD in less than a week. So, I was wondering maybe we add something on this upcoming commission meeting on the 16th to have our city attorney draft a PDE ordinance in conjunction what we're about to vote on
>> and then get moving for all the p all the five priv private properties that >> but two separate things we got the motion coming so let let's get the motion >> u so we have a motion and a second could
we please have a reading of read back what the motion is. >> Commissioner Clark moved to move forward with the master plan with Ref Tillis. Attorney Brooks did clarify the motion meant moving forward with negotiations.
>> Okay. So, uh we have motion and a second. Is there any other comment from up here? >> Okay. So, roll call, please. >> Commissioner Clark, >> yes. >> Commissioner Dicki, >> yes. Vice Mayor Vazquez >> I. >> Commissioner Zison, >> no.
>> Mayor Doctor, >> yes. >> Four to one. >> All right. So, we pass it four to one. And do we have any other business here tonight? If not, we're adjourned.