city of Treasure Island local planning agency meeting for Thursday March 21st 20 24 if you wish to speak on the topic which is on today's agenda a speaker card is available on the table the rear of the room must be completed given to the chairperson pleas not address the seat Podium heard and recorded as required Florida statute sched topics may be presented com of the agenda please keep your cellones silent silenced and have a roll call St Michael heres here ly fer here Diana here Marvin Shin here here here here all right we're going to start off with item six a workshop to review concepts of the terrain modification manual in relation to the proposed changes chapter 67 Marine structures and Commercial Fishing uh this is the one that everybody wants to hear about in regard to seaw walls Justin Keller with Advanced engineering um again always a pleasure to come in front of the board and appreciate youall having me so um thing I do want to reiterate when we talk about get to some of the subjects today of the train modification program is um you know we have two separate items we have the code element and we have the manual element so we're going to be talking a little bit about both today because again they both pertain to the program that we are proposing uh We've we've talked about some prior chapters before um what we'll do is we'll we'll kind of provide a running list um as far as you know items that we have discussed and then uh obviously today is focused on um Marine structures specifically seaw walls uh so I'd like to kind of share some feedback or some thoughts first as far as how do seaw walls play into terrain modification um we we identified four main development classifications within the uh train modification manual uh single family is uh designated a classification D1 commercial and multifam are classif classified as D do d.2 uh roadways and uh a Json Parkway essentially public infrastructure is D3 and uh Coastal erosion structures which the majority of time we're going to be talking about seaw walls is a separate type of classification um and obviously we classified uh seaw walls separately uh because of their importance to the system so seaw walls are not designed to prevent flooding um you know their their sole intent is to make sure that we prevent soil erosion and we stabilize the shoreline so really from our standpoint um I want to make sure that that um that that thought kind of stays stays throughout the present presentation that um this is not a flooding abatement this is about making sure that we can continue to keep the shoreline stable at the elevation that we want um in Prior discussions we've talked about uh the framework of the program and some of our core goals um specifically when it comes to um elevating the ground underneath and around a structure we mentioned that we want to maintain the elevation that allows for positive drainage from a property to the roadway in in a similar nature for seaw wall we are we are not proposing a situation to where the seaw walls are higher than the structures while we do have uh minimum grades uh minimum grades that we identifying as our goal we still want to make sure that we have positive drainage over the seaw wall so the map that I'm showing you here is essentially a um identification of the basins or the storm water um drainage area on the aisle of Capri just for example so you'll notice that we have this red line that essentially perimeters um the the fingers and what this demarks is that within everybody's side Lot line you essentially have a high point the water on this side of the towards the road side of the high of that High Point drains towards the um towards the roadway and eventually gets collected within the city's um ms4 or or storm water system there is a large part of the city of Treasure Island Watershed that does not hit the actual infrastructure of the city and that is this area that is outside and essentially perimeters the um you know let's say that or runs along the ridge of those properties and we we want to make darn sure that we hold those Basin limits because if we start messing with sea elevations to where now we essentially don't allow for that water to drain away from the house of over the seaw wall and we force it to go back to the roadway now we are purposely making our ms4 bigger and forcing us to essentially over to to increase collect more storm water which is something that we are not proposing to do so just like we talk about elevating um elevating homes and making sure that we maintain that positive relationship between a garage or or a parking area and the roadway same concept for seawalls we want to kind of keep the elevation relationships as they are today we just want to move them up a strata if you will and then this is um specifically identifying the um you know a location to where we have this Bas and divide between the um parts that go to the ms4 and parts that flow Overland I um so when we look at um Seawall elevations moving forward within the manual we we've identified goals to where we have a low road elevation goal for public infrastructure we have a base floor or essentially garage floor goal for um uh commercial and um single family residential structures the same thing with with uh with seaw walls we have a top of structure goal that we're shooting for which is a minimum elevation of five but just like all of the other goals within the manual it's important that we recognize the uniqueness of each situation in each property which is why we've termed them goals because then we need to go within the framework of the manual and make sure that those goals essentially meet or that elevation can work with all the requirements um that are needed in order to make sure that we're using fill in a smart and sustainable manner when it comes to a seawall um the lowest floor or the base floor or finished floor is a term that's often used um essentially the the grade of the structure um that will certainly impact the seawall elevation uh the yard of the applicant the yard of the neighbor those yard elevations will impact um the elevation of a seaw wall um the type of a flood Hazard area we're in will impact the elevation of a seaw wall if we are in a um Coastal High Hazard area or a vzone which has wave action or if we're in a coastal a Zone which is an area that has one to three feet of wave action we have certain limitations uh to how how much fill and therefore how high we can Elevate our um our seaw wall structures and then also the presence of a flow transfer will also be um will also be something that would dictate or or have a a large impact in whether or not we have a um or or how these seaw walls are are designed and when we talk about a flow transfer if you just imagine the um essentially the road is a big bathtub and the bathtub only has so much volume and eventually when it fills up it's going to want to spill over in between people's side you know people's side lot lines so part of what we have within the manual throughout our development is we have to make sure that we don't we don't use so much fill that we Dam off those locations and then push that flooding onto somebody else's property so when we talk about Overland transfer we're essentially allowing for um let's say the terrain to be shaped in a manner to where the road the storm water can almost I guess relieve itself is not really a good term to use but let's say you know uh uh release itself which is also not a good term to use um but you know essentially allow it to flow over and um exit the city's ms4 and go into the water and that would be present on every single lot well so well so you know there it it actually varies based upon a lot by lot basis so but but there would still be some I mean there well you say the presence of transfer flow from the street area to yeah so so when that would be every single lot not every single lot because we're basing that off of a specific storm so we we're modeling the 100-year 24-hour storm and essentially we're able to map pretty uh definitively the limits of flooding in that location and if you have a if if you have an area that is low you know low near the inlet and then it continues to grade up the water is typically going to want to pop through at those lower points right when you get to the higher end although in if you know if you had a Noah's Arc Type event you could have a you know a spill over between okay but but really kind of conventional um flood plane management is we want to make sure when when we execute our model on the city's terrain right now where are those points to where these flow transfers happen and how do we make sure that our actions don't result in any adverse impact and this is all based all those volumes are all based on the current storm drains that are in place yes yes and yeah and as as we continue to improve throughout the city the goal is to have it to where you know some of these areas go away you know or where we have it going between three people's lot line maybe we get it down to one and and and this is part of how the program will evolve over time to where these flow transfer locations um hope you know the goal is to where as we go through and perform a storm water or roadway Improvement project we're going to be able to to address some of these locations okay now not not everyone may not be able to be addressed or it may be ineffective from a cost benefit St standpoint to do that but theoretically from a goal standpoint you know the the mission upon starting a project would be okay how how can we address water leaving essentially the confines of our system and get it to go through the pipes and again um I do want to reinforce that this is not a one-size fits-all um you know to where one one thing that we felt was important throughout the development of this whole program is that we can't paint a broad brush and say everybody will be this we can say everybody should shoot for this goal but then with the seaw wall with the house with anything else we're going to use these sight specific parameters to determine if we can hit the goal and if not the manual has a specific sequence that would be followed in order to step it down as we need to and the same thing applies for seaw walls so where it's very possible that you know we you know the the seaw walls is is a minimum so somebody you know and the minimum is elevation five some properties may be able to get 5.5 some properties may not be able to hit five and the manual will show them they have to step down to four and a half and so really it's it's every property is unique and it's important that we recognize that when we created a system that hopefully is going to being you know being used in order to address some of some of the sea level rise threats that face us what I'm highlighting here is a a crosswalk between some of the some of of the tenants within and we've we've talked about this with the manual but I wanted to kind of uh reframe this discussion as it pertains to seaw wall seaw walls so as you can see as we develop single family multif family and public infrastructure projects we have a lot more checks if you will um seaw walls while certainly I'm not trying to say that these are not you know not as important but you can see from the seaw wall scope of work um when somebody is is designing a seaw wall there are less checks that you would need to go through just because there just because to be honest there's just less moving parts and if you're building a home or roadway something like that so when we talk about the proposed revisions um we are proposing one thing that I think Katherine can speak to which is we're going to be able to elevate seaw walls and and that's something to our understanding um that you know the the city staff has received feedback that's something that's desired by the community so we certainly are excited that we can you know incorporate some of these you know incorporate this big Point as part of our program and then two we're also going to be taking the opportunity to Define Coastal armoring uh specifically on the beach and um also we're going to be identifying when new seaw walls are required and certainly um that that's something I'm going to hit on pretty heavy here in a little bit we're going to modernize the material and construction guidelines um within the code and then also um the goal is to reinforce manual adherence to make sure that we have a clean connection between the requirements of the manual ual and the actual codified language within um chapter 69 now there are certain items that we are not proposing to change so right now the code requires that all seaw wall seaw walls be designed by a Florida registered professional engineer that's that's the way the current system is set up and that is something we are looking to carry forward and also um the current system requires that um any seaw wall applicant must illustrate that the seaw wall is not resulting in any adverse impacts from a storm water runoff scenario that requirement is also being carried forward um or proposing to be carried forward I should say with within the new code and then also um the placement criteria as it sits today which is 12 Ines off of an existing wall is proposed to be carry forward we're not looking to to build any more Islands out out here in Treasure so um you know so the the these are three critical parts of your program as it is right now that we are looking to incorp or proposing to incorporate um in in future code modifications one thing that I that I really want to discuss is about um identifying when a new seaw wall is actually required and we have two situations we have what what we're uh uh a term we're coining as a major repair or if you have a newer elevated building and you'll notice uh beneath there I have a um noted uh statement referring to the 12inch rule and I'll go ahead and I'll get into that momentarily so one item or one action that would require a the construction of a new seaw wall in accordance with this new code um would be a major repair and we're proposing to define a major repair as one that utilize a um repair that utilizes new seaw wall panels for more than 50% of the length of a of a property Shoreline so couple examples if you are looking to put in a belly beam or a whaler system to stiffing up your seaw wall that is not something that we are considering a major repair you're looking to rebuild your cap that's not something that we are considering a major repair however if you have a catastrophic or consequential failure and you have a 100 foot lot and it requires 55 ft of sheet or seaw wall panel replacement that is a repair of significance that we are calling a major repair that would trigger the need to um to construct a new Seawall and then also um a new Seawall would be required um with any new or substantially improved building um whether or not a major repair is required but we do have what we're referring to as the 12in rule and the goal behind this is um when when somebody is come in and building a new home go back to first part that Y Must replace with the 12-in rule in force and I want to talk about that because that's certainly important leaving the seaw wall intact is not an option it depends on the application of the 12-in rule so and I'm not trying to coin the phrase It's just yeah yeah no so so essentially you know you know part of what yeah yeah no so well well it what's what's proposed is that part of the goal of the program is to elevate Treasure Island right that's that's what we're trying to do we're we're trying to make sure that our roads our structures our seaw walls can be elevated in a manner to where we can continue to live on the island as we we are for the foreseeable future now that being said there are a lot of places to where if you're building a new home you would essentially go into the manual and say okay well my goal is elevation five okay and I run through the manual and I find out that okay actually I can be at elevation 5.25 and this this is where the 12in rule comes into play if you if your existing seaw wall is at elevation 4.75 we don't think it's worthwhile to ask residents to make an investment to do a new seaw wall to elevate six inches so so essentially what we're trying to do is that we're trying to say okay we want a new seaw wall and we want it at this elevation but if that elevation change is so inconsequential which we're calling pretty much 12 in as the threshold then then that seaw wall would would be able to remain in its current location and what that does is it provides you know again we we we want to be cognizant that chall changing a seaw wall from 4.8 to 5.0 is not our answer to sea level rise right that's that's just a bit silly to be honest so but changing it from 4.8 to six is pretty consequential so what we're looking to do is that we're trying to identify a threshold pretty much one to where when somebody comes in and they do a new seaw wall or or or they's say they elevate their home or they build a new home we want to provide them the opportunity to keep that seaw wall if it's not at an elevation you know if if if if there's not the ability to make any consequential change well let me ask you this I mean we're we're building a new structure on a parcel and we're looking for that 5T and we look at the specific application we say well we can get 5.3 in the existing laws that it's already over four but but within that outside of that 12 in say 4 foot one or something yeah so going to require it in in that case because again there has to you know there there's always going to be and actually the first application that's going to hit is going to be 1.03 feet right that that I mean it's just Murphy's Law so where there's never going to be a clean cut off because that next applicant's always going to be in an inch over and above so we we kind of determin that you know anything greater than 12 in is really something that we feel is going to be of of consequence essentially and and so in that case if somebody's able to get 15 Ines although you know I get that that it's close you know that's that is what's being proposed so and we're allowing for that to maybe be a little bit of a judgment call there well so at the indivual parcel in that case you know as as as you're going through the manual um a a design a designer will have a responsibility to essentially look look at what they're proposing and and pretty much try to get to all these elevations so there there certainly are you know just like with any pering program um there are certain strategies you can use um to benefit your client right um so I can imagine that this program won't have certain strategies that people adopt to benefit their client so um but from our job we you know we don't really think it's really worthwhile to say nope you got to rebuild your entire Seawall and spend 50 Grand because we want to get that much that's it's crazy so but if we're talking about this you know and and so we we pretty much identifi a cut off and you know as we sit here today yeah the first application is going to be like you know 13.1 inches and there's going to be yeah and that's that's going to happen so um but again the cut off is important because we have to have a cut off or else why even have it and this is kind of a unique situation but's orals sea W and then are building one house well so you know with and and that's a good point that's going to get into some of the other discussion is that there there's going to be times to where um you you can't get that elevation five and let's say you're at 4.6 we are going to want from from a design standpoint we're going to want the dead men the tiebacks and the actual uh you know the sheet that you select and the embedment you select to support that elevation five so while you may need to build to a certain elevation there we want to make sure that if somebody wants to come in and almost like recap the wall or or build upon the wall to get additional height that that the seaw wall will allow for it because the know last thing we want to do is just assume a seaw wall can account for these additional Earth and loads and and have a failure curve so um when when the seaw wall is is designed that first time in in theory um that would be something to where the the calculations would support that okay we know they could at least get this elevation to where if the cap was installed at 4.7 there's you know we have the mathematical backup to say we know that we can add new owner builds a home is level gu seaw wall I could see that scenario potentially yeah withstanding all these other criteria yeahh and you know the the the goal would be when that new seaw wall is built that first time that the Builder is aware of I think this is a case where it's already built it's a catch 22 in this one they wer people there's a lot of houses under construction right now that yeah well I mean if you know if I if it's a house under construction now I mean certainly this isn't this is a vacant yeah right you're talking about going forward I mean yeah yeah they already built to make their lots more sellable because they knew they were going to be building two houses and they were starting the first they rebuilt the seaw wall for both Lots at the same time being proactive so now they have a seaw wall build at the existing elevation okay so I guess this all goes to whether or not this is being codif codified or is a guideline which I know it's kind of both well in that case as a new Builder I think he would want to be proactive and uh while he's got a brand new Seawall he knows that it will support a new cap is either toh take off the existing cap or brand new one or add elevation to the existing C that be done either way at my house that I did in 96 I added 15 in to the height of the SE believe me definitely the house next door is one of those situations where they did repace the seaw wall putting Vel Heating in front of the old seaw wall and a huge cap on top of that and that got up him up to Elevation five and you know it's going to be sea Ando you know and in in that situation to where you you have an existing seaw wall you know kind of the goal of this 12inch rule is recognizing the reality that when when this gets put into place doesn't mean that everything is stopped before it and so we want to make sure that we provide you know that we provide Property Owners at least a set of tools to where we're not arbitrarily having these situations occur to where there's not a tangible benefit now if this person can can get 18 inches of additional height on their seaw wall I mean I I I hate it that that they that they built it already but really where we're trying to go in order to make sure so I mean there there's going to be certain situations you know with this program both I you know I think just with seaw walls and anything else that you know there's going to be some some unique challenges that are going to have to be dealt with um is that dep give us the spec on sea and or is something well so from a seaw wall design standpoint if it really is that let's say it was built in the past five years I mean typically you're going to have a drawing you're going to have you know you're going to know what what is and you're going to know what the sheet length is and the embedment so typically you can kind of reverse engineer it and and understand what capabilities that system would have um and and some may be able to handle it and some not that's really just going to be based upon what the what what was built um I think the idea is just the opposite we want potentially that not have to do even if it's capable you even if they've raised their base level they were allowed to now you're causing them because they did the right thing with the house forcing them by this this is SE reality yard wouldn't hurt anything but I just want to be careful that whatever we're doing here we're not we're we're causing things to be done because in a natural way not script yeah and you know the the intent is to tie the new seaw s to the new and elevated homes in order to try to follow that natural development cycle you know um being that is being prescripted but I'm okay with that you know that's for would be up for debate again Chris a lot byot basis sense yeah this guy built new sea wall a year ago top of sea walls at elevation 4.8 she wants to build the F of his house of seven uh yeah we're not I would think that that's where Common Sense would apply and say yeah let's not make this guy go in there and raise it just because technically has to hit that two10 of foot minimum but on the other hand the homeowner has to take little B and say this do it if you have a h seaw wall at 4.8 you're building a million doll house and you can build a house for a million dollars okay somewhere else you're going to build a 3 million doll house and you say hey this is my one chance to get the top of this seaw wall up to Elevation six it would be worth taking the cap off new and I think it's the ter new sea wall that I was mostly questioning because a cap serves the purpose yeah and and that's certainly something we can CL you know because really I think the intent of that is you know we're we're in you know I think what we're talking about here is probably not going to be the norm you know I um but but we still want to make sure that that we recognize that these situation exist and you know as long as there's a way that we can understand that that seaw wall can handle those loads then I think maybe it's like a new seaw wall or cap elevated to this elevation um but we also you know I I would certainly want to make sure we caveat with you know having those calculations to do that because the last thing we wanted to do is say NOP we don't it to this elevation and find out that the sheet or the you know the structure of the wall physically can't handle working J yeah no no I mean making yeah I'm making a not succeeded yeah but you know this this 12inch Rule and the recognition that you know that that's that's really something that that we feel as we you know because um Katherine's actually provided us a couple example sites to try to truth this thing because you know it it helps us to be out in the wild so to speak and say okay I can create this framework in in in my little world but let's apply it in the real world and and so I think the 12inch rule really allows for us to make sure that that we're not you know just forcing walls to go up when there really isn't a a benefit to it I guess I should go on sorry um and so what we're showing here is that you know we we um nothing you know kind of going back to that prescriptive term um the goal is prescrip prescriptive as a minimum but the applicant will need to determine what the end elevation is going to be um for seaw wall big picture our our concerns are going to be what's your flood zone where if you're in a coastal zone you're limited 24 in doesn't matter what we want FEMA says 24 we like getting flood insurance we're sticking to 24 so um that's that's certainly number one number two is we want to make sure that whatever we do is not resulting in um greater than one to five slopes again that's a FEMA requirement um I doubt we're going to run into that from a seaw wall standpoint a lot but again I still think it's important to have have in there um as a check so and then also we want to make sure that we maintain positive drainage it's so important that we maintain positive drainage from the rear of a property to the um to the seaw wall and that's not only for the applicant it's for the city we get to keep our Watershed in the same limit you know if we started jacking up all these walls and putting all this water back into the ms4 now we're increased the ms4 by a certain percentage and so we just you know kind of the goal is to keep things as they are keep these elevation relationships as they are and then allow allow the program to work within the natural cycle as as homes are new homes are elevated and provide or recognize that not everyone's the same not every property is the same Sunset is not the same as Capri and provide a set of you know provide a framework that can work for all properties and then two uh this is something that we hit on within the um within the manual itself but I just did did want to kind of share this to kind of uh um demonstrate what what the flowchart essentially of review looks like so essentially we would have you know in in this uh case what we would do is if we couldn't meet our goal we would pursue our goal modification um you know that's more of a this is more of a terminology statement but I do want to make sure that we we um you know that we've we've kind of shared to the board that while we have goals and we have guidelines this program needs to work with each individual property it's not a blanket you must be this Kell High Water the only thing that's come hell or high water is FEMA we're not yeah that's that's and we're not messing we're not proposing anything within our framework that is going to Trump what um as far as some some upcoming activities that we have pertaining to seaw wall um you know C certainly in the last meeting we talked about you know fencing and and visibility issues that's something that that really hits other parts of the code but but we know that it's it's present here so we want to make sure that we come back within that section but we also want to recognize that that we're not ignoring that concern um and then also we're going to be holding a seawall contractor's Forum um you know you know to get their input um there's is there a timing on that or um I can check on that to see I CU I don't have that off hand but I know it's coming up in the near future so I I I just don't have a date right now um I would say I don't have my computer but I had to bring it out so you know the um and then two also um ju just like all the other ordinance that we presented it'll be presented in the formal underly strike through but we just wanted to provide you know provide some of the concepts um that we're proposing to present to the board for discussion okay anybody got any questions I got a couple also a questions one of the items brought up of last City commission meetings where there's a section of seaw wall over 15 is Verge is a good way to put it yeah any day any day anyway as I walked around the city in Sunset Leach lot there's actually for instance at let's just say you got to be an emergency situ fix do we uh fix it up at minimum elevation or do we just fix it' be really great at start raising seaw W okay okay well you know the the um certainly I have come to you preparing a program that says we feel that the long-term Solutions Elevate the nerd in me won't let me do it until the codes are there to support it um to where you know I I I get or I'm I'm I'm hopeful we're on the verge of of you know going through the process and formalizing the adoption I I just can't recommend anything that would deviate from the city's no fill policy right now um now now what we could do is you know we talked about having some strategies to where we can certainly know that well we can look at the site we can say okay we think we could get it to this elevation and design it to way where the deadmen the tiebacks the the you know the the sheet the sheet um section modulus and the the embedment depth can support that elevation at a later date um I mean that that would be I think a you know kind of a no-brainer there I would just be leery of of pretty much moving forward and using doing that before the before the codes allow us to itd require a variance it's more of a maintenance situation would be what it would come back I think it is a great idea for this board to move this thing along plain and simple there are segments of seaw wall private and public that would benefit greatly from this you have man of the audience Gib could you address for the record and your home address thank you yeah but what I heard differently than municipalities from pretty refreshing running this running you up to ringt they had all El down right now it's perent that has highall I mean with like with with that timing is there a way the seaw wall could late no the Wall's about to go in today and I even said to the homeowner let's wait know you don't know let me ask you a question in regard to that then all right you build a seaw wall today and top of the SE wall 3.75 okay two years from now something happens you need to build a new seat wall I mean it is a point where well right now I guess that would be kind of answer question those new sheets streng seaw W is there any way to streng the seaw wall to add that cap get it up to five yes potentially it's not fly down the road somebody brought up raising a you know for for I'm I'm you know so so some oh no no so so so really because you know some of the things that we've we've thought about internally is that you know it's it's easy to say oh make the wall adaptable but you can't you can't drill the where what we're thinking is that we could either do you know you could dowel along the C and and pretty much let's say you wanted to get six in all the time we'll Topp that was my question is it so this when the designer is designing that seaw wall that you're putting in today is there provision made to do this little 12in cap on top of it oras yeah right that's what I mean I mean do they provision today to allow for an additional cap to go on is it or is it it's sit it depends but but we can in this situation to where if we're imp perating and we have a designer on board but it's not typical not it's almost under a 5 has to be designed letter fill out or whatever saying that yes it's out of elevation but accomodate that 5 at a later long yeah which that's within our code but if you took a look at the typical seaw wall that's been put in in the last 5 to 10 years those seaw walls have not been provisioned design wise to add another layer of 12 in of concrete and rebar some may if you design if an engineer looked at it he might say yeah you can do it but but not 100% that would be a lot yeah right okay that's something I didn't realize but I mean you know I was building a I think there is an opportunity now to where if you know because um who's who um do you know who who's designing your seaw wall you know who's who's designing that seaw wall R okay so I would imagine that if we know like for example the 37 if there's a way for for the embedment and the sheet selection pretty much be done to where we know okay we got a design so let's say if if we know we're building in the 37 if we got to be a minimum five that that we can at least handle of at toe of the wall scalos you know I think you know should should should these codes come into I think at that time you know there's going to be more or less the requir have to and and and in most cases I think that could be done with relative um and also too if we have a situation to where it was put in within the past five years I think the data would be there to at least have analu cheap and to be honest there'll be that will comment I was going to make is if you're building a 3 million on it building A3 million house another $100,000 make sure you can this code this code going it's not like a subjective code it is going to happen and it's up to this board to makeen I think we got a pretty good start I would hope that that I was just going to ask Richard I agree with you we need to move quick going through the wickets we got to go through when when do we get the final approval you think looking in your so we there there is a timeline on Elevate ti.com to where you know you know we did want to provide just give me the seaw wall um forget all the other stuff just give me the seaw wall okay well I I I mean without speaking you know cuz I don't want to say anything and then have to walk it back in like 24 hours we you can trust us yeah I'm sorry July July okay of 24 right 24 all right thanks thanks for being here thank yous okay we're at the question section we uh have a City attorney here who has to leave here uh at 4:45 we got two more on the agenda right quick goad Chris okay we've been talking about runoff and just want to the S water when seaw wall is elevated I just want I want to understand that the be continuous that water will run down from that house on that L not the idea is not neighbor so these houses are built upot or two at first level we're we're making sure that there's zero impact neighb the goal and that's the way the and and really so we talked about this slide as far as the items that that are carrying forward right now the city requires that elevations be obtained along the side lot lines to make sure that that can happen right and and and that's a really important thing to carry forward so yes I think that's one of the bigger questions that's going to come up from many people that are in smaller yeah single level homes across having large homes buil not be ADV no see that seaw wall go up a foot next to them and obviously the house is going up or two next to they're not to be know that's difficult to do no you know the the first meeting that I think we had that point was brought up I mean that's a real concern so and we you know the the storm St water code as it says now can't do it and the storm water code as it's then says you can't do it which means that now that we're prop you know we're using we want to elevate and use Phill there's different strategies that we need to use to accomplish that goal but the goal definitely stays the same concern still so for yeah so for wave action that's where we talk about the coastal a Zone and vzone because that's where Fe says that the wave you know that that's where the wave action is and we have a 20 we have filled restrictions in those areas to to address that concern I guess I'm okay are and what of course yeah is anything on the beach any so so right here this this line actually I think here let me turn this off yeah so this this line is the limo if you will and essentially everything from that line out towards the water is essentially where the wave action is is occurring so everything so like in the canals here that that wave action is under a foot so and then too you know during a storm there there's a you know during a a a surge event you know especially like a the big one let's say you know like a 100y year event I think this area has like The Still Water which is like the elevation before the wav start at like elevation 10 and elevation 10 we all bets are off I mean you're kind of looking across the landscape and it's all just looks like water you know um it's a crappy image but um and um so so really but in these areas out here there's a very real concern where I live oh okay oh okay all right concern no and and so you know and and those those those areas out on those tips that are in those wave action zones 24 in hard stop nothing more than 24 in because anything more than that we have adverse 24 in it seems like my sea wall is bigger but most of the lots are 70 feet if you raise 24 in on both sides of a 70 foot lot seems like you're going to become a Spillway to the street for that wave action the when you look at the totality of the volume of water that that's coming in during that you know more or less like kind of a you know an example maybe maybe a way to kind of present the image is is that if you had that that static tail water across all those properties and you came in and you put in walls at that elevation the the one property that does not have a wall put in that elevation of the water will not change on on that property because the volume of water is so infinite essentially that's coming in which is why like you know why in a in a coastal flood plane you can fill from a Swift Mud standpoint because there's really no concern with adversely affecting your neighbor's property when it comes to large storm events right with wave action that's I've sat there during storms and waves it it won't it won't so and and you know FEMA's own guidelines State you know their federal guidelines state that anything 24 inches and below is inconsequential doesn't require wave run up analysis so the outside of the blue lines the maximum of that is 24 so the interior of the island be raised more than 24 in so long as they followed the requirements of the manual okay because I it seems like with the Wastewater management Max everywhere so yeah that that 24 like you know pretty much the 24 limitation if you can get it and and again that's not you just do 24 it has to be your ceiling is 24 if you meet all the other requirements um 24 four is pretty much the cap only on areas that are like a coastal a or a velocity Zone which are water word of this line here so like you know the tips of Capri tips of Palms um you know part of the you know part of paradise north of the causeway n is totally you know somebody that lives there and has seven brand new homes within the last eight years I don't see where they're ever going to be able to elevate that they're not yeah I mean there but they're they're yeah so so really part of the program nothing in this program is essentially going to say you you have to like you know it's it's always going to be the applicants actions that trigger the manual you know this is not a e that pretty much says all right we passed this manual and now everybody has to rebuild their home so if those if those residents want to rebuild a home in theory which if they just built probably not but in you know in 20 years if somebody wants to move in that property and says they don't like the you know the view and they want to change it then they would need to rebuild it in accordance with the manual but as long as that that compliant home at the time it was built is being used and the resident doesn't doesn't pursue any substantial Improvement or propose a new structure nothing changes those are those are new homes but this is aund 100 year plan so 75 years from now those will be old houses you know and and my house kind of funny to think about years right you know and and too you know also that that doesn't mean and you know that doesn't mean that from a from a roadway standpoint that doesn't mean that there's not opportunities for us to you know kind of incrementally elevate out there so you know again part of what's hard about what everybody's facing is that there's not a you know there's no like instantaneous day one here's a solution for everybody this is going to take and and there's always going to be this transition period where you have people that just built five years ago you know and um and those are the ones we're hoping that we catch on the tail end you know of of the program and that as we move forward and and really maybe when people start recognizing that there's a benefit in building higher and protecting your your property uh from some of these threats although there may not be a direct need from a use of the property standpoint maybe they're like oh well I want to elevate now so let's rebuild you know and that's that's something that certainly we we can't predict that but we can certainly put in um you know so those those guidelines to where when the resident does make that decision to rebuild that they're able to be compliant zones make a little seen the lines but I didn't really have an understand oh no thank you very much take me out sure go ahead if if if they start it's there is no the the the the timeline does not um the timeline does not matter regarding or or the timeline does not restart when you have a d change because really I mean if you did that then people could just retitle their house all the time and then get a new it's was the time yes it 10 years 10 years was was what was proposed and that's where we were up for discussion because I know Ross Sanchez was saying he thought the 10 years was too long and uh situation being is yes it especially down on sun these little Beach cottages some of them have a structural value you can spend $25,000 but U yeah like like was saying that a change does not well but I mean if I I guess in theory if they just put in a lot of money in their property then then then it would it would actually increase and and then your 49% is based upon the yeah well so if if you know I guess kind of talking just cleany numbers here you have a $100,000 house let's say and you spend $49,000 and then you sell the house and Catherine please correct me if you think I'm speaking out of line and then they come in and they say I want to do X well the value of that house and and and let's say after those improvements were completed it's now at 200,000 well so now theoretically the 49% is what 99 and change or something like that so if so there would be additional room there because that value has been reestablished because the one thing we're not doing is that we're not saying when when the you know clock strikes 12 that's your value for moving forward like you know so that value will change based upon it's the value just of the structure not the land just of the structure but but at the time of permanent application so if if it's something to where you put in money you know because you know kind of like the the house hunters type thing right you put in aund or 200 more you know so that that that's something to where you know you you would realize that benefit but how often does that typically when you put money into a house a lot of it I agree with that we will bring that back as a specific proposal to you and at that point we'll discuss it in more because Qui question on that are roofs included in that yes so if your insurance company says your roof needs to be replaced we won't insure you I guess this all goes back to the what you're saying about when you do one set of permits or one permit under that 50% rule you can reassess and there's now more room within that even with the five or 10 year rule yeah well like when the the value is always based like when you turn in the application it's the value then no I understand that so let's so you spent your half now you reassess after that permit's closed I think what I was just hearing was you you're not allowed to go back to the well for the full 50% again but you can go for the margin that was in inreased so is that correct you would be based on whatever your current value is as shown by the property appraisal or a specific less what you had spent to get it there before prior within that five or 10 year period whatever was decided so the remainder of what that % value right so so it leaves a little bit of breathing room yeah right why why I I'm sorry I missed the last meeting but what why do we care about changing that why not let people keep just do it on a Perman by perit basis I think if we look at the goal of the lb yeah sure yeah like from from a that okay yeah like from a FL play management standpoint our our you know kind of the the the goal is when a storm hits not if but kind of when it's a crappy reality um when it hits we feel the goal is to make sure that the that the property value damage is as minimal as possible where we can get back up and running and that the the residance you know because it's almost like for these Investments to be made in in in structures and structures um you know a lot of time that real risk isn't realized until it's too late and also too part of pursuing some of these roadway elevation goals is going to be dependent on elevating um on elevating homes and getting those garage floors up um and it's very likely that as we move you know should should the should the program get adopted and and we're looking down the road there there really could be a certain set of homes let's say that had continual Investments made in them that like for example on 115th right everyone has to get out 115 if you have a bunch of Homes at the very tail end of 115th that just limit your ability to elevate the road because they're so low now essentially we've lost that opportunity to elevate the road to allow for all these other people to live their life in 2070 when the tides are higher so it's it's it's trying the needle between that people are going to want to improve their home while also recognizing kind of the threats that face us now and moving forward and then also trying to really minimize the amount of damage and and and impact when eventually the big one comes our way so and and this this concept is not you know this concept is not unique I know Safety Harbor has a lifetime um I know other entities have a 10e and part of what we're going to do when we come back is is provide you know kind of a snap not that it matters but just as a data point uh provide a snapshot of kind of what others are doing to see where where we fall in line I guess there could be provision for or roof replacement and emergency or what have you within that rule I would again you Case by case Common Sense situation yeah a roof will have exceptions to it anyway we do have two other cases to get to uh let's do those we will be addressing the% rule but I really think that that's uh something for the city to come up with let's think of some things that have to happen that would not be included in that 10year period or five year period roof replacement is the one that jumps out at you you know I mean a lot of insurance companies right now are saying hey we're not going to insure you un unless you put on new roof my roof is going to cost me 15 grand my structure of my house is worth 20 I know most houses on Treasure Island aren't that bad but quite frankly there's some on Sunset Beach that are that anyway thank you for coming today that's good riew LPA resolution 2024 which recom approval of ordinance 20243 amending section 3-4x School Exception by removing the 50 room requirement for hotels from the ex amending section 68-84 accessory uses in motel or hotels by removing the 50 room requirement from the incidental incidental services and clarifying alcohol beverage EST access us thank you for reading that so I did not have to um so I will um so the first item as you mentioned is resolution 202 20242 um essentially what this is is the code currently in 6844 um allows for incidental services such as restaurants various uses pered by special exception provided you have um so we were kind of asked to look into that figure out why and from what we could find it dates back to at least 40s if not beyond that um to Old liquor laws that required you to have us number of rooms for certain licenses um it looks like it's an AR code Le probably as early um so the licenses are are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco um we don't really have anything to say over the licenses uh we also looked into a law of Florida that was in there um that was a special act forel's County and it kind of had that same language and um the city reached out to the county attorney and apparently that has so no issue with us removing this but um in looking at it we kind of determined that it limits uses in smaller Hotel have caal services that would otherwise be allowed by so this resolution um we're hoping that you would recommend approval to the city commission strike that out any questions of the city sta it's a silly question I take it there not a whole lot of school church one church official school so you weren't able to find any about street it's on that allows drinking on beach anyway don't any to do it so I've am cities in the county as well there are many many some and do small like for instance you saw theot are they actually not issue you mean the one that said it would only be for people staying at the hotel wasn't public uh yes that has the sign out on the boardwalk that says public invited yes yeah appreciate that yes thank you but it is an interesting situ go they have to go through their licensing requirements Insurance whatever they have to do we're out of the way depends on what agree with you Richard great I would say I would also say too the it's not just tied to services are not allowed to they you know that's a complaint from all these owners of these hotels up and down they can't keep people here so we got to try to keep people people spend money here okay that we forward from the board to move this forward to the city Comm so move B yes yes yes yes yes to our last item resolution so for this one um we've been doing obviously our development regulations for many things recently was kind of there no defition necessarily so um a couple things we want make by providing a out currently to basically kind of distinguish kind of so LPA resolution2 one's Anin one's a resolution and one's the actual the ordinance did we move this forward do both of those that's correct I don't is over the examples the have part of the that lands ised now they're waiting this those are existing they're all open Manion made out of land in one totally destroyed and removed and they do want to come back and build a concrete structure so for information of the general public watching our meeting here today I don't see any problems with this do wish that somay we do get a SE of that I get a motion to approve resol I move that we move forward resolution 20243 to forward ordinance 20245 to commission by Second Marin yes yes yes yes yes there reason can have it at 2 o00 we have the option to change the P it's just been a very longstanding 2m um the L meeting which we will have we're going to have both Mee next mon is normally at 6m but we've been moving it to the afternoon we can move it to any time in the afternoon that works so would you like meeting for the LPA on the 11th to be at or early will be just keep it at two o'clock okay okay yeah that's what I was asking would we like to move it to one or two on instead of having a night can we just keep it at two if we're just going to do one do we have to go to one it just doesn't work right for me um 2 o00 works o00 and if we don't have we may bring you more terrain just just FYI I am going to miss the meeting on the 11 be out of time Stacy I wonder you know I know yeah because as we good