Madam President, ready on your call, Madam President. We may begin. Trenton City Council special meeting, Monday, August 18th, 2025. It's now called to order. Please stand to salute the flag.
Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Oh, I just I don't see him right there.
Adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act pursuant to public laws 1975 chapter 231. This agenda is complete to the extent known. It was sent to the Trenton Times and Tronia newspapers, p posted on the first floor bolden board in city hall and filed in
the city clerk's office and posted on the city of Trenton website. Formal action will be taken. Roll call. Vice President Edwards, present. Councilwoman Feliciano. Councilwoman Figuroa Kenberg,
present. Councilwoman Frisbee, present. Counciloman Harrison, present. Councilwoman Williams present. Council President Gonzalez present. Myself Brandon Garcia, Municipal Clerk,
present. Mr. Colloji is excused from this meeting. And city attorney Wesley Bridges. Thank you. And Madam President, at this time, if you like, I'll read the invocation. Yes, please. Almighty God, who holds the fate of man
and nation, we most humbly beseech thee to bless this our city. these deliberations and these thy servants that they may act with wisdom and understanding for the good of our community and thy greater glory. Amen. Amen. Thank you. And Madam President, as I understand it, did you wish you'd like to go into
executive session at Council President, Councilwoman Feliciano? Thank you. Um, out of respect for the people that are here tonight and the importance of this issue, I respectfully request uh I'd like to make a motion that we adjust the agenda to put the discussion in the presentation first and
hold the executive session after. I'd like the people to be able to hear what it is we're discussing. I don't want any blurred lines with this. I'd like us to be upfront um and forward facing. So I'd like to make a motion to adjust the agenda for the discussion and presentation to be first and then the
executive session after. Um if that's the case I would like the motion that the executive session would go last then because then at that point we would have to be worried you know have the public also discussing. Yes that's fine. So I'd like to I'd like to so Mr. Garcia.
Yes. I'd like to make a motion that we move the discussion and presentations first and then the resolution and then the executive session to be last. But we also have the attorneys that are present here to talk to us. I still want I still make a motion to do
the discussion first and then the executive session second. I'm not comfortable going into executive session with this. Thank you. That's fine. Oh, okay. I mean, so I have a motion. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, Madam President. I'm sorry.
Yeah, there's a motion to move the discussion and presentation now. Um, Councilwoman Feliciano, thank you for that, but I I I was trying to figure things out, right? Okay, we going to do this. Um, not you, but somebody can say that's okay.
Yes. Okay, we can have a mo. We can have a motion. Yes. I didn't hear you motion. That's what I'm saying. So, I have a motion from Feliciano. Do I have a second? Some moved. So that is the second. Yes. Okay. So I have a motion by Feliciano,
second by Figuroa Kettinberg, and roll call. Vice President Edwards. Yes. Councilwoman Feliciano. Yes. Councilwoman Figurero Kenberg. Yes. Councilwoman Frisbee.
Yes. Councilman Harrison. Yes. Councilwoman Williams. Yes. Council President Gonzalez. Yes. Motion carried. We will adjust the agenda and that would be for the discussion to occur
before first. Correct. Yes. So then next on the agenda, Madame President, after that motion pass asked would be the discussion and presentation. Mr. Sean Lazaret, Commissioner, New Jersey
Department of Environmental Protection. Yes. Thank you so much, Mr. Lazarett. You are more than welcome to join the podium, please. Looks like I got to press that button there to speak. All right. And I'm loud, so I should probably back
up a little bit. So, first of all, Madame President and members of the council, I thank you for the invitation to join you this evening to discuss the serious issues affecting Trenton Waterworks and for arranging a
special meeting for this really important purpose. Before I begin, I' i'd like each of you, the elected leaders of of this city, to know that I am not here to fight with you.
I'm here to collaborate with you because at the end of the day, we have the same job, a shared responsibility to ensure that every Trentonian and every person who lives and works and
learns in the greater Trenton area receives reliably clean and safe drinking water from Trenton Waterworks. And I want to recognize that that this topic feels in many ways very personal. In my
experience, water issues often do. The waterworks has a long history and is a point of civic pride for Trentonians and naturally a discussion of how to secure its future can stoke passions and
even raise suspicions. And I want this council to know that for me and my D colleagues, many of whom are here today, Pat Gardner, our assistant commissioner for water resource management, Trish Inelito, our director
of water supply and geoscience, Kristen Tedesco, our assistant director of water supply, all of us and the many staff members of the D. We
are deeply invested in the good care of this community and of the waterworks itself. For for each of us, this is not about throwing stones or pointing fingers. It's not about taking something
of value from the people of Trenton. It's about protecting public health and safety and securing Trenton's future together. Together through an inclusive and a democratic process, we can put Trenton
Waterworks on better footing permanently. We can improve upon the assets and the operations that exist. Make water consistently safe and undoubt and undoubtedly reliable. Ensure that
the city derives financial benefits and reduces its liabilities. And most importantly, invest in the waterworks workforce and every Trentonian who are this city's most valuable asset.
I truly believe that this reality is possible, but it needs your support. It needs your acknowledgment that the city cannot go it alone. So again, I I thank you for the invitation and if you'll indulge me,
I'll share a few a few specifics to understand where we are in the choice that's before us. I think there are a few important facts that we all uh should take stock of. You know, over the years,
Trenton Waterworks has consistently struggled to meet drinking water quality standards, has struggled to maintain system reliability, to manage, perform maintenance, and improve upon capital infrastructure and
struggled to satisfy many other compelling public health and safety obligations. And that pattern which existed long before me and long before uh your council membership, it
resulted in a series of enforcement actions in 2009, in 2013, in 2014, in 2017, and in 2018. There were many attempts by the D to resolve outstanding compliance issues by
agreement and ultimately the agency felt compelled to bring litigation to enforce the Safe Drinking Water Act in 2020. And then a number of events unfolded, including a Legionnaire's disease outbreak that unfortunately costs lives.
And with that litany of events, we took the unprecedented step of declaring that Trenton Waterworks poses a imminent and substantial endangerment to the public health and the safety of its customers. Now, it's important to put that
statement in context in imminent and substantial endangerment because to make sure that every New Jerseyian receives reliably clean and safe water, the D enforces the Safe Drinking Water Act. We monitor hundreds
of community water systems, evaluate the quality of the water that they deliver, perform inspections to ensure their proper proper operation and maintenance, and we provide critical funding to help them make system updates and improve water infrastructure.
And never before in the history of our state has the DP felt compelled to reach that conclusion that a water system presents an imminent and substantial endangerment to the public health and safety. And that's due to the recurring
struggles for the water system to properly operate and maintain the system to cover or adequately treat the open water reservoir of clean water that has been a source of non-compliance for decades.
The potential for Legionella and lead risks within the system. and the inability for the system to advance capital improvements that are really critical to its stability and very critical to the finances of this city
because deferred maintenance and investment ends up costing the rateayers of Trenton Waterworks, the budget of this city much more. Now we now have Trenton Waterworks under
direct operational uh oversight as a function of that order and that does not mean that the D operates Trenton Waterwork Works. Far from it, right? Rather to help ensure that the stability of the system is
improved. Our water professionals are a regular presence at the waterworks alongside contractors that have been retained and secured at the state's expense, not the cities. We've utilized state funding to procure limited equipment and engineering
engineering support for the waterworks. And over the last two years in particular, we've worked with personnel at the waterworks to triage really critical matters uh and help to write the ship as it were. But that stability
support, it's not a long-term solution for the waterworks. It doesn't mean that because we're stable that we're okay because we're not. Now, to help inform a long-term
solution, DP procured two independent third-party assessments. One to collectively appraise the status of the waterworks to evaluate its technical, managerial and financial capacity, which is a term of art in the
water sector and for regulators like us. And number two, to examine options for restructuring the system so that it can be stable and self- sustaining well into the future. And those steps, those two
steps were designed with the input and support of all of the Trenton Waterworks service area mayors and the legislators for districts 14 and 15. The third parties conducted substantial data collection, engineering review,
on-site inspections, and they interviewed many, many Trendwater Works personnel. And their end conclusion is that the system is at an extremely high risk of systemic failure that the
city alone cannot repair even with the support and stabilization uh from the DP and these independent assessments which I I hope uh this council has had the chance to spend some time with and if
not that you They explain in detail many of the considerations that underly that conclusion of a lack of technical, managerial, and financial capacity. And so I won't I won't go through it in
detail, but I'm happy to address it in any questions you may have. But importantly, the independent assessments also uh confirmed that the waterworks can be successful if it is
restructured as a public utility that is independent of the city government. And I can explain some of the reasons for that conclusion that it could, if established as a separate utility,
it could maintain compliance with the Safe Drinking Water Act, ensure the long-term sustainability of its assets of and improve its governance and operations. if those two things are fully modernized and professionalized at
every level of the organization. Now, we believe that that type of transformation is indeed possible. And so in consultation with Mayor Gusiora and the mayors of the
surrounding communities, with consultation of the legislators of 14 and 15, DP solicited firms that could assist the city in a democratic process for
exploring regionalization. And I wanna I really want to expound on that point because I think there's some confusion um at least in some of the things I've read that somehow an outcome has been determined that the fate of Trenton Waterworks has
been decided. No, far from it. We are here to talk about taking the next step and engaging one of the eligible firms to walk with us hand in hand through a
process for exploring regionalization. And I want to I want folks to understand what I mean by that. Um so first the goal of this public process which
would be about 2 years in length is to evaluate how we could establish a regional utility by providing every stakeholder with a clear understanding of potential benefits and challenges
that are associated with creating a new utility. This was done in the in the area of Raleigh, North Carolina, where multiple municipalities came together to establish a regional utility.
And the the goal would be to reach agreement, not have a foregone conclusion, but we need help. We all need help, the city of Trenton, the DP, the surrounding communities to be able to engage in that
process meaningfully, right? And it has a couple of steps, but very importantly, each of these steps that I'll explain to you is overlaid with a consistent and
democratic community engagement program that would deeply engage the residents of this city and those in the surrounding municipalities through community town halls and open houses.
hard copy educational materials for distribution, a website that is informative and intuitive, that provides updates as all of the parts that I will explain to you are evaluated, digital newsletters, engagements through
surveys, because everyone should have a voice in determining how we move forward. the 200,000 200 plus thousand people who receive their drinking water from Trenton
Waterworks, which of course is not just limited to the constituents that that you all represent because a a high visibility effort like this one, it requires a really thoughtfully designed strategic
stakeholder engagement process that helps to build people's understanding that that ensures its credibility and a well-informed outcome that is many if not 18 to 24 months away if we
are to engage in this process at all. The first step would be to establish an executive steering committee for this effort comprised of high level leaders from the jurisdictions involved a working group that in that involves
representatives at at the staff level. It would then uh the second step would be to conduct a comprehensive needs assessment that captures the full scope of the current conditions many of which we know but if you've read these reports
in detail you'll know there's some things that are still lacking in in understanding the finances of Trenton Waterworks are a bit obscured in many ways. For example, it would build an asset inventory, an inventory of condition and capacity and
performance. It would a a key very key component would involve a fair and transparent valuation of every water system asset at Trenton Waterworks. And to the extent that there are assets in the other communities that would come in
together in a collective form of regional water governance evaluation for those as well and similarly an accurate inventory of all of the financial liabilities. We know some of
them. And one of the potential conclusions that were was reached in in one of the independent uh assessments was that the amount of debt may we don't know for sure may outweigh some of the value. We need to deeply know the answer
to each of these questions. The next step, the third step would be to evaluate the organizational and the governance and organizational structures that are available to this
endeavor. So build on the 360 degree review by further assessing governance models. that that review put forward five different types but those are large types. The status quo which no
professional has said is sustainable or advisable. There's a regional uh utility authority that is publicly owned. There's a special purpose entity. Yes, these big categories have been identified, but the details of them need
to be explored with you, not for you, with you. We need to build on those assessments and then develop from them a governance framework that is advisable and potentially acceptable to
all of the communities that would have to make a decision about it. develop governing documents and determine operational models, right? How how would the operations of this new utility ones
to be created differ in in some ways from what exists today? These are all questions that need to be explored through this process. questions that would necessarily engage the staff of Treton Waterworks as stakeholders in
that process because the outcome should be informed by them not chosen for them. That is the type of depth to this process. operational planning. How do we set the new utility if one's to be created up
for success with things that Trenton Water Works lacks today like standard operating procedures that correspond to every piece of the operations which aren't which aren't in place today? How
do we ensure that we maintain, not abandon, not fire our workforce, right? But how do we support them better? Because there is no training program established that meets any
credibility. There's new employees who show promise but don't get what they need from the utility that exists today and that they deserve. You have incredible folks who keep this system running, but it's
almost as though in the current fra in the current uh formulation, they've been abandoned to hold it together by themselves. And that's not okay. Folks like Tea and Teresa and Dasia who work their hearts out, you know, sometimes I
bet it can feel like they're working alone. We need to make sure that they're better supported. Financial planning would be the fifth step in that process. Developing operating operating costs and capital cost priorities. Planning for how to
manage consolidate debt in a way that's really beneficial to the city and other of its obligations. My request of you all here today is that we allow this process to move forward.
That you all as elected leaders of the city be an advocate for improvements that this could work. that you be engaged in that process that on its
executive steering committee so that you see the full details and scope of what the problems are today and how they can be fixed well into the future. Because I will tell you,
not a formulation of this city council and not a D commissioner has yet been able to ensure the success of this utility and we can't leave it this way. We've got to we've got to pursue a better path
and I think it's before us and I think we do it together. I'm happy to take your questions. Thank you, Commissioner. So, I'm going to open up the floor for our council members um to ask questions, but I just wanted to just quickly just start it off
by one simple question. I know like on the the tone of your letter um it was very shocking to me the tone in the letter that we received on July 29th. And so on page five, you recommended regionalization, right? You're
recommending it to us today. And then on page five, you're telling us that you are reducing the technical assistance and day-to-day plan operation support and the funding and all of these things. So my question would be one, we've been under your oversight for quite some
time. Have we let me backtrack, I'm sorry, let me backtrack. Have we done any of the improvements that you've asked of us in the last couple of years? That would be my first question and then I have one more and then I'm going to open it up so everyone has an opportunity to ask questions.
The major improvements that are necessary remain outstanding and have for a long time. We've been focused these last two years on helping to maintain stability. So, so listen listen really quickly. Um, everyone in the audience, can we please
be respectful to our guests? Um, Commissioner, I I just wanted to know, have we made any of the improvements that you have suggested or your department has suggested? Yes or some? Yes. I I don't want the audience to say anything, please. Thank you.
Yes. Some, yes, things some of the improvements that we've made and maybe some that we have not. All of all of that is in the the assessment reports that have been provided was updated most recently in
the administrative order that was issued in October and some of them are identified in that letter as well. Um, and there are four major areas that we need to focus on moving forward that
have not been addressed in total. Right now, for example, the city is behind in its requirement for replacing lead service lines. It's making progress thanks to the technical uh assistance that's been provided,
but still behind in the replacements that are required. The unfinished open air uh finished water reservoir is one of the most prolific in the nation and has not advanced
in order to replace or cover that reservoir and that is incredibly important to the maintenance and improvement of the the the maintenance of of public health protections.
There are multiple issues that have not advanced to the degree that they need to and that have been long outstanding for a long time that the city had been cited far for as far back as 2009.
So yes, progress has been made, but at the same time, the independent assessments are very clear on with on on this point that
is without the continued presence of the state government and its support those that progress. there's no confidence that the progress and the stability that has been achieved will be maintained.
Thank you. My next question and then I'll open it up to whichever council member wants to go first because I want to allow us all to have a couple of minutes to ask questions, but I know that you all conducted the uh water the quality water
study and can you share the results of that? like what's our quality of water study results? Um I'm not familiar with what you you mean a a water so I know we've asked for a comprehensive plan that was asked for um
the results of that and that hasn't been shared to my knowledge. I'm going to say that hasn't been shared with us. So I'm asking so with that I see you're you're talking about an engineering review of certain um infrastructure as I understand it two different things. Yeah. That's not yet complete.
That's not completed. Hold on. Hold on one second and I'll confer with the staff here. Yeah, the performance evaluation is those are two almost complete. So, it's not done yet. And then I was asking about Oh, okay. I think there's a
misunderstanding about water qu like what the performance evaluation is versus the the water quality uh report that you're mentioning at Okay. So, we didn't do a water quality
one. You I understand the comprehensive is not complete, but we did you're telling me we didn't do the water quality study because I was told that we we that was conducted. I I'm not sure what is I'm not sure what is what what you mean by that. There
were three assessments that that the state was uh has had solicited for and paid for on your behalf. Uh the technical, managerial and financial capacity assessment, right? uh that was completed and put out in January, the
360 degree review put out in January and the comprehensive performance evaluation that pertains to the engineering. Okay. And that's the only two and that wasn't complete. So there was no quality of like so you can't tell us the what is the standard of our quality of water
here in the city of Trenton in Trenton particular moment? No. in this in this particular moment. Yes. Like what was Yeah. So I I think what's maybe where we're missing each other is water
quality is determined by sampling that is taken on a very routine basis. Yes. Right. And because of the work that we have done to help stabilize the system and the improvements that have been
made, we have not seen an exceedence of a regulatory standard in the most recent sampling. Now there is concern about the there is concern about the the
maintenance of the sampling program. As you know, there was a there there was a um a a criminal indictment because of sampling error because of sampling that was not that was not done and was
falsified. Um we've but we have been there with the staff helping to maintain the water quality. Right? The question is not about the water quality in this very moment. It is it is about the
ability to keep it clean and reliably so in every moment and that is where the failure is. Okay. So, so just from my understanding and whatever council member please light up if you want to go next. Um thank you
Frisbee. Um, so to my understanding, the way you just explained it, there is nothing wrong with the quality of water. As you just stated in your presentation, you said that you were concerned about the quality of of our, let me go back because I quoted what you said, but you're telling me at this moment that the quality of water in the from the
Trenton Water Department is of standard. Correct. Am I understanding? Yes. But I think that misses the point though. Okay. Okay. I don't understand how that would I'm trying to go back to what you said. You said
you said investing in shredding and it's a a concern of yours for the quality of health and the quality water standards. But you're telling me that the stand we are up to standard. Correct. In in this in this very moment. Yes. Okay. But you're receiving the the the system
is receiving a lot of support from the state government and from outside contractors. And the the the concern is that that is unsustainable. that without that added support, the
organization as it exists, the finances as they exist, the infrastructure as it exists cannot sustain compliance. That is the concern and it's detailed in these independent
assessments. You don't need to take my word for it. You can you can read from the professionals who have who have evaluated this system from top to bottom and not just now and years past as well.
The same cyclical problems arise and it places the system at continued risk of catastrophic failure. That is a reality. Thank you. I'm just going to allow my colleagues to go. Um, Councilwoman
Frisbee, I saw yours first. Thank you, Madam President, and thank you, Commissioner, for coming out this evening. So, I'm going to read back to you some of the statements that you made this evening. Um, you said over the years that Trenton Waterwork has struggled to maintain, but in this
moment, you're saying we're good. Um, then there's a button. Nope. No, not my turn. No, I'm not saying you're good. My turn. My turn. Um, but you did say we are have we we are we are it's quality water. It is drinking. You said that the it's not sustainable because the state
government and other entities are helping to supply that. That is also the problem because the state is sitting on so much land that we cannot uh occupy and get the resources from all that. That is also part of the hindrance. Then you also said that you're not taking
something of value. But the Trenton Warrior work system is absolutely of great value to all of the residents here in this city of Trenton. said you're not here to fight, but you're here to collaborate with us. Um, you did you you said you didn't realize.
No, not even that part. Um, I wanted to you hit on something that I felt that was really important. Um, you named some individuals in our water system that I think are absolutely vital. one person you didn't um mention and it's that's our director director honorary um a
black man Sean I'm saying Shan Sibble excuse me director Sean Simple who is a black man you also did name black um TA Brown Humphrey who is a black woman she's our plant um plant supervisor you did name Dasia Brooks who is our chief
chemist and you also who is also a black woman and Terresa Pollina Ponella who's our environmental engineer who is not a black woman but is a woman. So here's my my my take on this. Why did I say all that? I say all that because I don't
want this to feel like a Black Wall Street incident about to happen to us once again that once we're getting this thing all right all throughout the years. You mentioned many years from 2009 and on where the water quality was really bad. Right now our water quality
we're selling it to the American Waterworks and all these other pl we're selling it. They're drinking our water. Our water gets tested every hour on the hour. And I know you know that because you came to visit us, right? So they told you that. So you have beautiful black people in here. You have
minorities in here. And they're doing their things. These are topnotch quality certified people with their with the ability to handle this. You're saying that you're not sure if it's sustainable or not. My question to you is if you are here not to take something that is of
value to us and to collaborate with us, why not empower us to maintain our own water system, if you have the resources? That's my first question. Councilwoman, I recognize your passion, but I want to be abundantly clear and
and on this point and for no one to mistake me. Compliance with the law is your obligation, not mine. Compliance with the Safe Drinking Water Act is your obligation,
not mine. So, let me ask I'm now speaking. I let you finish. So the problem here is not made better because over the last two years
the D has been helping you. The problem is deeply systemic and structural. One might say an outgrowth of systemic racism itself it itself. And ma'am I am a professor of environmental justice. Right. I understand what you are getting
at. But the problem with the decades of disinvestment, there is a hole dug so deep that you cannot get yourselves out of. That is what these reports say. And the goal is
not selling it off. The goal is not to take it away, but to help put it on a better footing. for example, were a regional public utility to be developed,
it would free the waterworks from the city's bond rating. It would get a bond rating of its own, one that might be able to meet the needs of the financing that it seeks. Our stability support
can't do that for you, but you can do that for yourselves by exploring the regionalization and utilizing the potential for generating investment that that is hard
for you today to get to get in a different form. It doesn't mean giving anything up. If there is a new regional utility that is public owned, you're its majority shareholder. This is not about taking anything away at all. But the
details of that only are able to be accessed by you by going through the process, not attacking it at the outset as though it will do something nefarious
to you. You will ultimately decide whether the outcome of that exploration is something you would adopt. No one decides that for you. You will decide that you will. No one is making this
decision for you. However, every year that the capital investment could be made but isn't. Every time you're operating off the off of a crisis
reaction response model, which is very much what Trenton Waterworks is doing, you're digging the hole deeper without helping yourselves out of it. The solution that could be before you is
not is not defined. You will define it by going through the process. All I'm asking of you is that you don't close the door on that process and that exploration. The the outcomes of those assessments are real.
You answered that part of the question. I don't want to take up too much time. Thank you. Um I want to you said you talked about the solution. Um if I to understand correctly, you've been in this seat for seven years, correct? I have been commissioner for five years.
For five years. um your first time that you've been out to this plant. Was that this past um month? It was in June. Okay. So the in June June was the first time that you've been here in seven years um since you've been in that seat.
Um 5 years. In 5 years you've come out to us for the first time in five years. Um, if we're to work together and we're to work for what is best for our community,
here's something that people I I feel that they seem to always think that Trenton needs someone to come in on a white horse and rescue us because we're always we don't know what we're doing. Actually, we're getting it right now. Our water system is really doing good.
And you But you already know that cuz you you tore the plant. No, but it's not doing good. No, it's not. I'm talking. I'm not talking. Not your turn right now, ma'am. I'm sorry. It's not doing good. It's it's it's my turn. You can answer and you're I'm going to finish in a minute when I answer the finish
answering my question. The D mandated that we hire M McDonald. Are we Is that correct? M. McDonald. The D mandated Nobody mandated hire anyone. Okay. That's not what the leads say and I will get that out to show to um prove
that. What? M McDonald designed our intake system that failed with the uh frazzled ice. Mike McDonald, your person your and when he was when he was questioned about why the what questions we had, he told us he couldn't
even answer to us. He had to go to the D because they're the ones who did the hiring and firing. That was not our who we picked. No, ma'am. That's not correct. I'm sorry, but your facts are incorrect. Your facts are incorrect. Look at M McDonald did design an out an an
intake for you but but you you're saying you did not have anything to do with the hiring of M McDonald. That is my question. The question is is it it's a yes or no. Did the D have anything to do with the
hiring? This is your water system. You choose its professionals. Not if you're mandating it. You choose them. So, did the D have anything to do with the hiring of M McDonald? You I think you're confusing two things. No question, sir.
Okay, ma'am. I I under I understand your frustration. I do. I'm really frustrated. You have no idea cuz this is personal for me. This is why you never called me. You've never been here in 5 years. Now you're here. You're getting the the the offices are changing and now you're here
after 5 years of not being here and we're getting it right. We have great engineers in place. We have a system that is working that other people that is failing. You put someone in place that you say, well, you won't even answer yes or no, but the
record says you mandated that we hire. No. No. So, so your answer is no. Your facts are incorrect. And if you would let me speak, I can give you accurate facts. Did he do anything have anything to do with hiring M McDonald?
Not for the reason you are saying. Did he So you didn't hire him? First of all, have anything to do with him? Oh my goodness. Oh, I'm I'm just asking the question. Did you Did they have any with here in the city?
Guys, listen. Can we just be um those in the audience? Those in the audience. So, here's what we're going to do. am I'm going to answer your question if you will let me I'm very prepared council I am very prepared to be here today very prepared
commission so am I those replace I will let me finish my answer to your question five times waiting on it you're actually not waiting on it yelling at me I am councilwoman Frisbee can you allow him to answer the question please thank you go ahead commissioner
Matt McDonald was an engineer on your intake design Somehow without any investigation, the the folks have concluded that the Frazzil ICE problem is M. McDonald's
fault. I don't I'm not offering an opinion on that either way, but I think that the immediate inclination to be defensive is part of the reason for the problems at this water plant. Secondly, Wow. Secondly,
Matt McDonald's, a different team, was hired by the DP not for your intake for which you hired them, but to perform oversight functions
with us. There is there is no investigation having been done as to the cause of the or the exact cause of the intake issue. Those investigations are underway.
They should be complete by now. They're not. I do worry about the next winter. But there's other issues there as well. The lack of adherence to standard operating protocols is also a potential
issue in that matter, right? Whether staff were were utilizing the the intake and doing blowoffs prior to the icy conditions of the Delaware, which happen every year, is also a
concern. But here's the thing. I'm not here to level blame on anyone. It's thoroughly unproductive. It's thoroughly unproductive. The facts are what they are. Multiple
professionals have deeply analyzed this water system and it is at high risk of systemic failure. That does not mean any one person has done something wrong. It's the system itself. It's everything
that preexisted, you or me. Okay? And we can fix it together. But this isn't going to be the way we fix it. Being at each other is not the way we fix it. Thank you. It's It's not about being at each other. Um, you said you don't see how M McDonald had anything to do with
it if you designed it. No, I said I have no opinion. And quite honestly, neither should you. Neither of us are engineers. You're saying that it's if our system is failing and he's the one that designed it that there's some correlation in there somewhere
doing otherund different reasons. Okay, moving on to my last question. My final question is you came in you said in June um and you did an inspection um but within when you came in and you did an in um when you you did a walk through um our directors I don't believe
knew anything about it. Um, it was a surprise, an especially a surprise. Every you came you there are others. There were pictures that were put out that day. Yes, I took them myself. You took them yourself. Did you ask anybody? Did you realize what you were doing when you did that? Did you realize
that one of the pictures that you put out actually compromised everybody who drinks our water? Why did that picture not done yet? The picture that I'm referring to is the one that everybody thought our water is so contaminated because look at that red dirty water.
That wasn't red dirty water. That was the water where we actually put the chemicals in to clean all the rest of the water. So that one bay, that one bay, that one one picture that was put out for everybody to think that was
misleading that the water is contaminated. That was the area that is where we put the chemicals in. How do I know? cuz I did a walk through also right after you did the walkth through just so I could get a better understanding. Thank thanks for our council president here and we got the
understanding what it the pictures did which I just thought it was really um rubbed me some kind of way because I felt for my children, my family, my constituents, my community if anyone were to be an
idiot and they wanted to know where is the one place that they need to go to drop something in to contaminate the water. Here's the ideal place because there is only one exposed place. And you, sir, I'm glad you said because I didn't know who took the picture. I just knew it was on your watch. You took a
picture that actually compromised our facility. Were you aware that you were taking a picture? Did anybody tell you during the tour? Did it, my question is, did anybody tell you when you came in to take that tour that the picture that you
were taking was where the chemicals were being put in to help clean the system? Ma'am, I understand how a water system works and I understand what the pictures are of. You didn't answer my question, though. And there's nothing that compromises the
safety or security of the facility by having photographs of the facility and its conditions. So if anyone want to drop something from Ariel, the the the one the one spot one
one spot that is red, they don't know with the help of your pictures, that's where you should drop it. And that's what makes a difference in the quality of water. It is a misunderstanding of how water systems function and what people would do to access them. There are multiple
gates that one has to go through to even get to where the picture that you are referencing is taken and by and if the fac and if the facility can't maintain its security that is another problem in itself and that too is in the
independent assessments. So our area was secure and I put the word emphasis on the word was. It was secure. We had there was no problem with it. No one had taken pictures before because it's it's not legal. People ask when they people ask when they come in. Our directors
were not there. They were not there to get give you guidance and you said you didn't need to know because you already know if you knew that. Ma'am, one of the water works force was with us on that tour and also I'm the commissioner of environmental protection. It is my right to inspect
whatever facility that I regulate that I wish. What is inspection? That's a picture is not an inspection. And again, I'm I'm wrapping it up. Council President, that picture compromised our system is what I'm telling you because no one else took
pictures. No one else who was allowed to go through our plant took would would have been allowed to take pictures. So ma'am is blocking your that your staff does not allow visitors to take pictures but but the D has not compromised the
safety of water. I'm done. Madam President, thank you. Thank you, Counciloman Frisbee. I have Councilwoman Williams. Thank you for joining us tonight, uh, Commissioner. We all appreciate that. So my first question is to follow up my colleague uh Councilwoman Frisbee. Were
taking the pictures in the public release of them any violation of Department of Homeland Security regulations? No, there are violations of things that are required by the Department of Homeland Security, but they are not because of the D. They are redacted from reports and I cannot discuss them here
with you. It is why I requested a private meeting. Okay. And then one of the statements you made earlier about uh not trying the TWWW and not trying to fulfill uh certain going back to the reservoir which in 2004 to my memory uh Department of Homeland Security post 911 said that
we needed to cover which was at that point and uh when we had actually uh congressman uh Chris Smith was our congressman tried to look into funding for it and it was technically an unfunded mandate. the city was never given money to do that and that was something and this is back several
presidential administrations ago. So, I'd like if you can enlighten us if they were provided money particularly for a federal project that was mandated by the federal government, but I'd like to know what happened with that. But also, that's a serious accusation particularly
as we've been trying to put tanks uh to replace their reservoir, but it's been much more difficult. And the attitude that Trenton and Trenton residents and Trenton Waterworks doesn't care about the residents of our neighboring towns. Uh to me, that's disgusting. And to me
uh to put forth that attitude that we're being lacadasical, that our staff is inept, that our staff is unqualified for the positions they have beyond insulting. It's a travesty because yeah, there have
been problems. I think we've we've recognized those problems and particularly in this city council since we've come on board. We have approved every single appropriation that's been asked for the Trenton Waterworks. So, please do not come and tell us that we're not doing everything that's
possible. And I want to get to my questions in a second. But I will frankly say to you, sir, having taken a tour of it and seeing a lot of this, I have confidence that we can turn this around and we have been turning around. The fact that we are meeting federal and state standards for
water right now and our water is as drinkable as anywhere in the country. And I asked that of our staff at our last meeting. I do not understand how the statement could be made that we're incapable of preventing a catastrophe,
let alone preserving the successes that have been made going forward. For those answers, I defer you to the reports that have been done for you at the state's expense that
say all the things that you just said you don't want to hear. Okay. Well, let let's let's push back on that a little bit. So, we're not here to not hear things and we're not here to say we ain't wanting to hear anything either. What I'm going to ask you is
January 27th this year, the report was released, your first report of 2025. You made a statement on NJ Spotlight News about ensuring, and I am going to paraphrase you, that the Trenton Waterworks be free from political influence in the future. What did you mean by that statement? Because we're in
a city where the citizens, our fellow Trentonians in 2009, 2010 had to fight for the right through petition to go have a referendum that ended up going to the state supreme court for that right to say our water works the first time. So is when you're saying political
influence, does that mean our council? Does that mean the citizenry like you know exhibiting their rights of citizenship? No, it doesn't mean any of those things. Okay. Um again, I think that every member of this
council needs to read every single page of these assessments. But every single we we all can read. Guess what? Everyone up here is extremely intelligent. I'm not saying we're not. I know you're not saying we're not. And I'm not trying to be combative with you, sir, but in two and when you wrote that and said
free of political influence, I want to know where you're coming from cuz the tone of a lot of the stuff we've got in letters hasn't been exactly friendly and I'm not expecting a Christmas card this year. So, please tell me what you what you meant by that. So, I I I don't know how to respond to
your point about friendly and Christmas. These are conditions that have afflicted this water system for decades. This is not new. Okay, this is not new. And when the statement is made about political in influence,
read the H2M technical, managerial and financial capacity assessment. It says exactly what is meant by that, right? The fact that you, an elected body, are the ones in charge of of a water system.
You you need a more studied managerial executive leadership that can run the water system along with its staff, not in place of its staff. But you don't have that. You have a director that's
got to go say mother may to a mayor. That is not the way this should be. Okay. Can I hold on? Let's let's set the table for real. Let's set the table for real. It's not to a mayor. It's to another government agency called a
department of adi department of community affairs. Sir, they have to approve everything we do from a janitor to a paperclip. Right. And to say that this council and I believe I am not saying anything derogatory
about this council at all. Our commitments there. I'll get to my next question sir. So up to now, why did the NJ DOP not provide the capital appropriations to the Trenton Waterworks in the past nearly three years? That
would make our waterworks not be on the verge of catastrophe. And as you said, imminent substantial endangerment of public health. Why was that not done? But you want to pull the supervisory the supervisory um work that's happening
through consultants. D doesn't have an office in the building. You're not there full-time. So, how why were the capital appropriations made that we have to do to make sure that our water is supposedly saved from catastrophe? Why
did that not happen? Ma'am, it is not I I think folks might misunderstand the role of the state government here. Our job is to make sure you do yours. Meaning you, the water system, do yours.
That's our job. Our job is to provide funding if you can demonstrate your eligibility for it and if you get in timely applications for it. That has not occurred unfortunately. Right. There's been a lot of funding, really valuable
funding that has been left on the table because there is not capacity within the water system because you have people stretched to the max that aren't able to engage in the funding opportunities. It's not as though the state government
goes and gives appropriations to every water system. That's not the way it works. You're providing a fee for a service. It's your it's your job as the provider of that service to make sure it's consistently safe and reliably so to to comply with every single
regulation, not just the one you seem to like on momentary water quality, right? Every every obligation, including covering the unfinished wet reservoir, which is not an unfunded mandate. It is your obligation
as a provider of water to people who pay for it. Thank you. If this if the system applies for funding, there is plenty of funding available. But take for example the most recent funding that's been made
available to to the city to advance lead service line replacement. Without these incredible women here pushing and pushing and pushing for those applications to get done and get in and get funding, you wouldn't have it. Okay? And I and I thank I thank the ladies on
your staff for doing this, but this council, including Councilman Harrison and all the ladies on this council, have been voting and voting and voting for every bond we could possibly pass, which gets me to my next point. We're not allowed to meet our full debt capacity for the waterworks. And then second to
that, why does the state of New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection or any other state agency try to help us increase our bonding capacity and possibly if we're such a bad risk, help underwrite the bonds by giving us a
credibility to be able to get those bonds and also get them at lower rates? Ma'am, why is that impossible? Ma'am, I'm not going to speak for the DCA, but it is a fact that the city receives considerable transitional aid from the state, right? I'm here to talk about the
the infrastructure, the ability to maintain it, and a better way that can be pursued that does not rip away from the city its asset and ability to generate revenue. Right?
pursuing a different mode of governance does not do that. Is it possible for the state government to underwrite the the water system itself? No, it's not possible. We have a mechanism for
supporting you. It's through our water infrastructure investment plan. Unfortunately, it is the system lacks the managerial capacity to take advantage of all the financing that is available to it. Okay. So then
let me close with this sir. If you're saying the managerial capacity doesn't exist, then let's let's get all the cards out on the table. What changes wanted to be happen? But there's nothing holding the state of New Jersey, the state DUP from being all in. No one's
saying you have to be our mommy and our daddy and tell us everything we have to do and do everything for us. We can do for ourselves, but we do need the financial capacity to do that. We also need if there's additional expertise to be found, we need to find that better
expertise than we had this last time around certainly. And you need as your department, as our state government, you need to actually want to partner with us, not take away from us. and nobody's trying to take anything away from you.
But if the posture remains a defensive one, this doesn't move on from here. You stay in traction. I want the reports, all of the assessments are very clear on this point. You need the help of a different form of governance.
Well, there's another alternative that allows us to do this ourselves with your assistance, not your oversight. And we're not asking for you to take away our waterworks. This is not defense. No one is talking about taking away
anything. But that narrative itself is a problem, council woman. That narrative is a problem. I've been up here all evening telling you that I don't want to take away your water system. At what point? Why do you think I want it? It has been driven into the ground.
Nobody. I want you to be able to fix it yourself. the pro there are too many. I don't I don't disagree with you. Since we saved the waterworks, I'm really going to close with this. Since we saved the waterworks the first time in 2010, have all the investments been made, all
the right decisions been made? No. But now they are. Save the waterworks in 2010 from what? Uh for being sold to New Jersey American Water, first of all, which is part of a conglomerate. This isn't new. Privatizing water is big business in the
United States and around the world. It's not hard to find out. All you have to do is go into Wall Street Journal and business. I think you misunderstand the distinction between privatization and regionalization which you control. And I would encourage you again to read every
page of both reports. Thank you, Council. Thank you, Councilwoman Williams. I have Councilwoman Feliciano next. Thank you, Council President. Good evening, Commissioner. Good evening. Thank you for coming before us tonight.
All right. So, when we talk about the regionalization of of the waterworks, how does that look when when we talk about running the authority? Who would be running it? Are there commissioners that are
appointed? Would it be from someone from each municipality? Who would run the authority? So what I am suggesting to you is to engage in a process to even determine that it hasn't been decided
for you. Again the process that I am suggesting that quite honestly I had thought everyone was bought into and I want to be clear about this. I thought this is what we were doing together. What do you
mean you think I am this council bought into? We didn't know. Well, I am not in control of what you know from other parts of your government. And you're exactly right. And that's why we have you here so that we can hear it from you. So that before this council
makes any determination, we can hear it for ourselves. Not hear it third party, not read reports that we were never privy to. Not hear about conversations until they were put in the newspaper. I don't understand this. this has been going on and these reports were provided
to the city. But the whole January but the whole concept of this regionalization and you know what exactly it entailed us having the opportunity to ask the questions that we're asking that we're entitled to ask before we got your letter saying make
your mind up by this day or this that's not even fair to us and I know that you the council question. Okay, now you know. So the question I had was the structure because from my understanding
the structure could be would be commissioners that would come from the different municipalities that would oversee this. Everybody gets a nice salary. There's a big director that gets a nice salary. Why are you thinking any of these things? Because I was thinking because what
about Trenton? What about our employees here? What about what about us? But but I'm just asking you what it looks like. Ma'am, I'm saying that what you should do is explore what it looks like and decide for yourselves. No one is doing this, making this decision for you. I
think there must be some swirl of misinformation about what this means that somehow people are going to march into the city of Trenton and take its water system. It's yours. It's failing, but it's yours, right? And it needs to be improved upon. the circumstances that
exist right now for all the reasons explained in these reports. There is not the capacity in this city to do it yourselves. I'm sorry, but that is the reality, right? And I acknowledge that none of us created that reality. But
what we get to decide is if we're going to do this, if if Miss Frisbee and I are going to yell at each other, if if Miss Williams and I are going to say, "Don't talk bad about this person, that person." I mean, in my letters right now to you today, I am telling you, I seek
not to impugn the operators of of Trenton Waterworks, they are operating on a shoestring cuz they were left that way. And not by you and not by this council, but by history. And we get to choose if we make it better or not. But
the way forward isn't for us to presume that. And I get it. Trenton makes the world takes. I get it. I get it. But here's the thing. If you are used to seeing enemies everywhere,
you forget how to make friends. And we are trying to be a friend to you and telling you that we think this is worthy of your consideration. All the questions you're asking about how it would be structured sit on the executive steering
committee for this effort and you decide. Not us, not the state government. Sure, we'll be there too, right? Because we want to help, not because we want to take away, but in essence, so again, I don't think
anyone up here sees people as an enemy. We're not an argumentative group here. It feels that way. Okay, I'm sorry you feel that way, but here we are. So when it comes to and I and I hear what
you're saying about this steering committee, the group to do the study to see what's going on and and try to come out to to what we're going to do at the end of this from my understanding the power of whatever happens if we move
to this authority then moves from the council. we would have no say over what would be happening. It would move from the hands of the city into the authority itself which then would be able to decide rate increases if they wanted to sell it to American Water. Um that we
would have no say on anything that is that is an incorrect presumption on your part ma'am. Okay. And I'm sorry I'm I'm I'm sorry that that is the incorrect presumption.
But if you are to form a regional utility and you are contributing whatever it is you have to bring.
Your power in that regional utility is in proportion to what you bring to it. Mhm. Right. You don't lose something, but you do gain something. You gain
more partners in helping you run it. you gain more um confidence of the market which does not have confidence today in order to get the type of investment that you
need. You gain a lot more by coming together with others. It doesn't mean somebody is taking something from you and and you get to decide how that works. And if you
ultimately sign up to do it, you will have to decide whether you do it or not. So what do you want it to look like? Engage in a process to design it. If you don't like how that process ends up, don't vote for it.
I'm suggesting that you pursue a process that could put you on a better footing. not that we ignore the facts and say, "Well, we've made some improvements, but not others, and they're just being too hard on us." That's not the case. It is impossible
for a system as complicated and as old as this one to recover from the level of disinvestment that has occurred over time all by itself. It cannot do it. And so what happens if
we were to say no? Then you say no. And what happens? And you are on your own. I don't know what happens. So there's not a legislative order that's waiting to be handed down to require that it happens anyway. If we do say no, this deal was already done.
We're sitting here. We're having the conversation. You could tell me on the record right now that if we were to say no, there is no legislative order ready to say that Trenton is going to go ahead and do this anyway. Ma'am,
the fact that that's the presumption is a barrier to moving forward in a productive way. There's no legislative order. Okay? There's no D order. D order is quite
simple. You have to do what is required of you under the law. You have not right. What happens if you don't? I don't get to decide that. Does ultimately if you still can't meet
compliance does ultimately a court have to decide that? Possibly. That is not what anybody wants here. And in fact, the lawsuit from 2020 was put on a on a
on a stay was put in inactive by me so that we could work collaboratively to advance this point, right? So that we can build a better future. I don't know what happens. I don't want
that to be I don't want that to happen to you. But I also may not be the commissioner stopping it from happening to you in a few months if there's a change of administrations and I'm no longer here. I want you to be successful so very
much. I want you to pursue this process that will help you be in charge of your own destiny so that somebody doesn't sweep in and decide it for you. Whether that's the legislature, a next administration, the federal government, I don't get to control any of those
things. I get to make you a recommendation. That's all I can do. And that's what I'm here to do. Recommend to you that you pursue the process. There's no foregone conclusion. Thank you. Um before I allow uh
Counciloman Ferrero with Cutenberg, I just want to state Commissioner first. We do thank you for being here because we all wanted to hear this all together. Um but we're not trying to be combative. You have to understand the p the passion that we all have, right? And the picture that is being painted. You continue to
say that you're here to to explore this idea. However, in the letter, it was like a forced decision. An RFP was put out. We had no idea that that RF. So those things make us feel as if the decision is already made. So you have to understand where we're coming from and why we
I really do. And I want to tell you members of this council, I am sorry that that this has unfolded in the way that it has. That RFP was written by me with the input sitting
next to me at the table of your mayor. How do I know what happens between the levels of government? Right? And your mayor has worked really hard to make these improvements. I'm not
impuging him either, but I don't know what I don't know about the operations of city government, right? And so I am sorry that we have not talked directly about it. Thank and but I wanted to I wanted to sit down
with all of you and explain what I what I thought was a miscommunication. And I appreciate that you want to meet in public. We wanted we wanted everyone to hear the same same information. The private meetings some people may understand something one way and others will do it the same. So that's why we wanted it in
public and with all everyone to be able to hear. Um Councilwoman Figureroy Kenberg. Thank you Council President. Um Commissioner again thanks for meeting with us tonight. Um, again, we're not trying to be uh combative at at any cost. We just want
answers. Um, we represent the city of Trenton and all the people in the city of Trenton and we're supposed to represent the best interest for the city and that's what we're here trying to do. Um, as a lifelong Trenton resident, um, I have to speak to
our community's wants and their needs. Um, our residents value local accountability, local jobs, the right to have direct voice in how our water systems managed. We recognize that there's serious challenges um that require investment, oversight, hard work that the state of New Jersey incessantly
has not provided us. We have gone years and years and years, decades of not receiving valid funding from the state of New Jersey as the capital city of Trenton. We have taken years and years and decades to try to pull ourselves out
of a box of getting the minimal money from Chris Christie. We are still pulling ourselves up from the bootstraps. I have to say that I have to second Councilwoman Frisbee's sentiments about you being the commissioner for 5 years and you have just now recently
visited Trenton Waterworks plant. I find that highly offensive. I'm a director. I've been a director for TWW for uh 10 years now almost. I cannot go two weeks without sitting with my staff and seeing what they're doing and
talking to them and finding out the ins and outs of the dynamic. I run a whole state program. I I find it offensive that you have just come to our water plant as you said 5 years. You just went in June, right? Is that correct? Okay.
Yeah, that's correct. Okay. So, I just Would you like to know why? No, you you can you can ask you answer why. I question. I I I understand why hearing that I just went to Trenton
Waterworks might sound weird, but that is not what the Commissioner of Environmental Protection does. There are many, many staff at the DP who routinely
visit the water systems in this state, including Trenton Waterworks, right? I thought it was very important that I go there and see things for myself
at this particular juncture, right? But it's not a routine function of what of what a cabinet secretary does. There are many folks at D who do
that. I read their reports. I see their pictures. I talk to them constantly. But that is not a f this state has more than 3,000 water systems. That is not a function of what I do.
But it was important here because of how deeply invested we are in trying to make this better. And it felt as though in order for me to be able to explain it all to you and the public, I
needed to be there physically myself. I did not see anything different than has been reported to me. It's troubling, but it's not as though I didn't know before. It's not as though this isn't a re this
is a recent discovery. And I recognize what y'all are saying about the state of New Jersey and and being due some funding because you're the capital city. I understand that perspective. I ask you
to understand mine. My job is to treat every single water system the same to ensure that there is compliance. The only water system that I have not
treated the same is the city of Trenton. Had there been the degree of non-compliance in another place, you wouldn't see the s the the D there trying to help them get it right,
expending the resources of our staff to send it to you. There are many things throughout the rest of the state that our our focus is distracted from in order to help you because we want to.
I am sorry that the history of this important place and this utility is what it is. My suggestion is only about how we can make it better together. I can't fix that history any more than you can.
Thank you, Commissioner. Um our goal as a council is to make sure that we are strengthening our waterworks and not dismantling it. That is not what we are trying to do here and we don't have a clear understanding as to what this regionalization would look like. So let's just go into that direction. Let's
say we regionalize. Correct. How would D ensure that trans taxpayers and water customers are not forced to subsidize the cost of regionalization surrounding in our surrounding towns? So that's just not the way that it would work. And I think you I again I'm going
to ask every member of this council to carefully read every page of these two reports. That's not what regionalization means. Right there there's no sub it's not as though Trenton is subsidizing others. The majority of your rate base
is outside the city of Trenton. The majority of your revenue comes from outside the city of Trenton. That's not that wouldn't change right the there's no subsidizing of others. There's a
question about how coming together collectively the whole region can be better supported in its water quality needs. Right? because
those needs are at risk of being consistently met, right? It's not as though you would give away something and not folks have a tendency that I think to
think of these things in terms of privatization as though if you are selling your water system and you're going to get a check. That's not what we're talking about here. That's not what regionalization would do. What
regionalization would do is bring assets together outside of some of the limitations that the city faces, right? Bond rating is part of that, right? You would be able to build a bond rating for
that new utility that doesn't suffer from some of the debt burden. And in reverse, the same is true. By not having to carry the debt of the waterworks on the city, you can lift both bond ratings
and do better to to better collectively. And then the revenue that you would get from the waterworks, which still would flow, would still help to lift the city.
You are not optimized for success and in the current structure you couldn't possibly be because of all the barriers that stand in your way. But this is not about giving something and not being paid for it. It's about adapting the
forms of government to do their most work for the people that government serves. That is why no one has talked about privatization because it wouldn't have that public identity, right?
But I feel like we are being Trenton is constantly under a looking glass and being bashed for things that are common. Um, for instance, you've led off with Legionella. Legionella is actually common in over 50% of uh water facilities. Um, even well-maintained
water facilities. Ma'am, I've never had a Legionella outbreak in this state like we had in Trenton. And no, I'd like to see statistics on that. I would like to see. Um,
so again, we haven't gotten clear answers to what regionalization would look like. You keep telling us to read, but we we we have read and we we brought you here for transparency. We brought you here to answer to the public that it's coming from you and you only. Um, so I really resent the fact that you keep alluding to the fact that we're not
doing our research up here. Um, but I want to ask you one more question. Given that Trenton is a a majority minority and historically underresourced city, how does D plan to address the environmental justice implications of removing local control of its water system? The local the local control that has
resulted in the near collapse of this system is an environmental injustice. I'm sorry, ma'am, but I will not tolerate environmental justice being thrown around as though somehow the work to help ensure the protection of the
public health of that underserved majority majority minority community would be undermined by ensuring that Trenton Waterworks does not collapse. I've not had another water system where we've had to call in the CDC, the EPA,
ATSDR in order to flush Legionella out of a water system. I've not had that. I've not seen that in my career. I've not seen an open water reservoir be have an accidental release of or of zinc ortho phosphate and risk the development
of a harmful algoloom that creates cyanotoxins that could potentially paralyze people if not addressed. These things I don't see elsewhere. I am not suggesting that no degree of improvement
has been made. I'm not suggesting that. I'm only suggesting that you cannot do this by yourselves. And it's not just my suggestion. Many professionals who deeply know this
stuff have reached the same conclusion. And no one seeks to harm the city of Trenton or rag on the city of Trenton or put a a a undeserved magnifying glass over it either. That is
not what is happening here. So, Commissioner, then I I'll leave with this. Um D basically would be the one to have to reconcile the fact that regionalization would essentially penalize Trenton residents for failures that occurred under DP watch. Thank you.
Oh, you've got to be kidding me. No, that's absurd. That's absurd. And quite frankly, it's a bit shameful. Thank you. Um, it's a bit shameful. Councilwoman has been shameful. The attitude this evening has been shameber. Thank you.
I have come here to be yelled at. I have come here to be yelled at by each of you. I have come here to be yelled at by each of you. And not one of you has ever in the amount of time you have
sat on this council reached for me directly and asked me what is going on. And I come here before you because I am deeply concerned about the public health of this community and you want to yell
at me and tell me that our support of you is not good enough. Yeah. Thank you, Commissioner. Um, Council Vice President Edwards. Thank you, Council President. Round it out. Uh, good evening, um, Commissioner Lere. I want to say thank
I want to say, um, first of all, thank you for coming and taking an opportunity to meet with us collectively. Um, it was very, uh, important for all of us to meet with you collectively so that we can get the same story, so we can get the same interpretations of what's going
on. Um, as you said and as I know historically, um, as a history buff myself and as someone born and raised in this city, I love my city. I've done my research and I do know there has been problems that
we have inherited, this council and this administration dating back decades. So, we are highly aware of that. However, um and and to your point, none of us did reach out to you. Um and I will explain why because when I attempted to and I
still have my email to you saved in my drafts, I was advised not to because there is a pending lawsuit and that they wanted to allow the attorneys that were on the case to work with the mayors, all of the mayors and yourself. So, I was advised to stand down. I did have a
meeting with myself, with the law director, with the council president, and the attorneys that are on the case earlier this year to explore other options of restructuring if necessary. However, we want assessments of its current structure and what it would take
to bring this utility up to standards. Now, I just wanted to give that background information so that everyone is aware that this council has been doing their due diligence, but the lack of communication with you directly was because of a lawsuit that we were made
aware of, not knowing to your earlier comments that you said that the uh lawsuit was put on hold by you so that they can figure it out. So, now that we're caught up on that, um I do want to
know and I hear your points that you don't believe and ne and neither does any of the other professionals who did it some type of an assessment that the city is capable of correcting it as it current structure, right? As you call
status quo. Um, however, is it possible for us to receive a list of every recommendation that you would and and I've read your reports. I have uh access to all of the websites, the the RFP that
you put out um back in April. I see the TMF reports. I see the 360 reports. I've combed through 103 of those pages. I comb through pages with the TMF reports 217 with my interns and with my advisors
and um I mean given our bond ratings and the things I do have similar conclusions that we do need help because financially our city cannot take care of this utility in its current structure and I
did hear your comments that there is money however the city has not been applying applying for them or in a timely manner or not meeting the requirements to qualify for the funding. I would like proof of that. Like, have they applied? When were the applications
due? Can we see all of this information so that we can determine where the systemic breakdowns are within the administration so that this council can provide better oversight? we're missing a lot of information that could help us determine what exactly we need to do,
you know, in terms of the revenues, the bond ratings and things. So, going back to the meeting um that we had earlier this year, and this was prior to your RFP in April, um this was in response to the the report that came out, I believe,
in January. So, we were talking about um coming up with a list of what we need to do to bring it up to par. and we talked about regionalization and we talked about a regular Trenton authority. We haven't gotten any type of solidified
answers or responses as to what would work, how Trenton could benefit from it, whether the employees would be protected, whether um the revenues because it is a public utility owned by the city and by state law, we can take
up to 5% of the surplus and put that towards our general operating budget. So historically we have been taking about 2% for our general operating budget. If we were to restructure like into a regional authority or even a Trenton
owned this authority how we have similar with housing and parking, how would that affect that? Would we still get that surplus or would we have to divvy that up to the other townships because then would it would be a shared service and shared ownership like this. It's very complex if you're
following along with there. I am absolutely following along with you. So on your first question which is what are the things that need to be done to be brought up to par in every part of the
TMF report there is a set of of recommended things that need to be done right in every single chapter things that need to be done in water treatment in distribution
in laboratory right the three main areas, but within each of those, it goes into finer level of detail and explains what the problems are and what needs to be done. So, all of that is there,
right? And then when you flip to the 360 report, you then see how different governance models would enable you to meet the needs in
different ways and at different costs because one government mo one governance model does not receive the same financial benefits as others. So for example, privatization, it does not receive the benefits of a
taxexempt status and access to the funding at very low rates or principally forgiven amounts that a regional utility would. And all of that is explained in
in chapter 10 and 11 of the 360 report. In terms of your third question about how would the city of Trenton benefit from a regional
model that is also explained in the 360 and there are different benefits based on the governance model that you choose. Some of those governance models would help you in under um in underwriting and
addressing some of your pension obligations, make it cheaper for you to meet those obligations by consolidating some of your debt. how exactly all that is done. I cannot
stand here and tell you because that is the reason to engage in the process that I'm suggesting because it will give you all of those answers. It will analyze for some of the information that is
lacking. Right? The the the financials of the waterworks are not easily discernable. There was a lot of trouble in in getting, you know, as good information that we were able to from the systems that exist and losses of
institutional knowledge and the things that happen. Again, not any one person's fault, right? But all of those questions would have an answer in exploring them in this process. That's the only way to
really know the answers to those questions and that's why we are suggesting that you do it. Thank you. Um I want to address the letter that you sent back in um July on the 29th. We you mentioned how the 360
report references all of these different governance or models structures and things like that options. You mentioned five options earlier that is on the table. However, your letter to us, including the RFP in April, did not mention
this assessment um entertaining those other options. So I think that that's where you're getting the biggest push back is it does seem like the DP is saying you need to assess regionalization not all five options to see what would be comfortable for
Trentonians and this governing body and this administration moving forward and how that would affect our city and our um customers who are benefiting from Trent Waterworks. Right. So I think that's where the the miscommunication is. May I explain? Yes.
So the if you think of those five options as a scale from left to right, the left being the utility as it exists today with all of the barriers that I have been trying to explain.
Mhm. And the far right is privatization. The regional utility is only one step to the right. and with each from that left end of status quo which is not
advisable. Regionalization as a public entity is only one step to the right of that. With each other step to the right of that, you lose control.
And it was my understanding that that was not something that was of interest to the city. I understand that that is that was not communicated to to me by you and I and I'm very clearly
seeing the the the communication gap here. Um but regionalization as a public entity would
be the the best option for keeping the things you want and not being by the burdened by the things that are making it impossible for this to see
real true sustained success over time. Okay. Well, thank you for, you know, identifying and accepting there is a gap in communication in your recent letter and the RFP uh with this council. Um because had, you know, we not had to
find out things through the grape vine, mind you, we've been in office for two and a half years, but you've been in your position for five. And as new coming council, we should have been brought up to speed. So, I would, you know, hope that the D would recognize
that moving forward. Um, that when new councils are sworn in, there needs to be communication, especially as a majority freshman council, we need you to reach out to us and then we could take it from there. I I appreciate that that request
and I can see clearly why that is needed here, but I that that's not the way that that's not the way that our regulatory oversight ever works, right? We go to the we we
engage with the water utility and it is taken as um it it is it is taken as a matter of routine that on the side of the regulated entity the waterworks you all
are having the communications that you need to have. I've never addressed a city council or a or a burough council or commission about a water system ever. Ever.
Um I can see why that is helpful perhaps to advance the issues here. Yes, I appreciate that. Um uh moving on. So I would like to ask a couple of more questions. So,
what are your thoughts on, you know, setting regionalization to the side? We do have other authorities that are Trenton authorities where they're the board members are Trentonians and they have their own bonding capacity and things of that nature. What are your
thoughts on, you know, that being an alternative, a Trenton owned model with a credible reform plan? Would that be something acceptable to the D? The DP's regulatory interest here is ensuring
reliably clean, safe drinking water. That is our only interest. all of the and what we're doing by providing direct operational oversight and support and bringing in contractors
when you need that. That is all extra regulatory. It is our work to be as helpful as we can. How the city moves forward is
as a regulatory matter, not our province, but every fact that has been explored, all of the records that have been reviewed, the historical review, the the
analysis and the interviews, they all s they all go in one direction, which is that as the sole owner and operator, the city is not likely to be successful.
Because while we're talking about bond ratings and financial issues, that's only half or that's only a third of the issue. There are the technical issues and the managerial issues without a
without treating what has over time become a regional utility. Right? There was a time when Trenton Waterworks was just a Trenton utility and it has grown over the years into a regional one without treating it like
one legally as a matter of governance. None of the evaluations that have been done suggest that it could be successful. So to be I don't think that you should put it to the side is what I'm telling you.
Right. Right. But I will just wanted you to you know be able to compartmentalize that for a second to entertain whether a trend own could be successful in a city and you haven't answered that question. The reports say no.
The reports all say no. It couldn't be. Okay. So, and clearly you don't believe that Trenton can bring it up to standard on its own. It's not that I don't believe it. It's that we're we're at
here. We are in 2025. These same types of recommendations were made back in the 70s, right? And then flash forward to not less than 10 years ago, these same types of recommendations
were made because there is a a cyclical experience that is occurring here. So why there's not a reason to believe
that it will it will make itself better without the support of making it bigger as a matter of the resource pool as a matter of encouraging folks to engage with the
city since you did not did not know of the RFP. I think there's probably the RFP that was constructed for regionalization support services. There's probably another one that you don't know about that I can share. We we
in late last year after the second unilateral administrative order, we put out an RFP to bring some contracted additional support into the city. Right? because
you don't have enough operators, you don't have enough staff to do the jobs that are necessary. And so we sought outside entities to that that would
bring those types of staff and bring them into the water system to help fill some gaps. Right. the the the mayor and I had discussed this as building some of the capacity and this the state putting out this contract to help do that to
help bring more folks in, right? Not to supplant the workforce. No, no, no. You don't need to lose them. You need more. You need more and you need more experienced people than than you have. It doesn't mean you need less. It doesn't mean you need to fire everybody, right? But you need more support than
you have. And so we put out the bid and we met with folks who had questions about the bid and not a single company would bid. And I think you're going to have if you made this if you if you
um tried to do a separate authority that's still of the city, I think you'll have that same problem. Why do you believe that? because I think you'll have problems recruiting the additional support that
you don't have that you'll need. So, where has the state been on that? I I understand that there's oversight uh, you know, requirements and things. That's your job. Your job isn't personnel. Your job isn't to show up to council meetings. And by the way, I
appreciate that. I understand this is an unprecedented type of situation here. So, I want to say I really appreciate you coming in here. But with the personnel issues that we have with Trenton Waterworks, and we do have it citywide across other departments, but
Trenton Waterworks, uh, some of these positions require special licenses and certifications and education and experience and things like that. And the director was, um, telling us for the last couple of budget seasons, we've been budgeting for these positions.
However, it doesn't seem to, you know, we don't seem to get any bites on them. Now, there are some communication issues that I've spoke to the administration about, so we'll leave that there. But where do you see the issues being with them having trouble finding the
qualified uh people to apply for these positions? And it can't just be no one wants to work for Trenton because we're always headlining negatively. So, what is going on? I I think there are a couple of different issues. I don't want to um I
don't want to pretend that the that the Trenton Waterworks challenges that we've talked about here and that are in these reports, I don't want to suggest that that doesn't matter to applicants because it does.
Um, but one of the things you would see in in both the TMF and the 360 is that the the compensation that is offered is not on par with the sector, right? So,
you're not compensating your staff well enough for the jobs they already do, right? you're not compensate and you're not able to offer the level of compensation that would encourage even more folks to
apply and you don't have the required training programs internally at the waterworks that would help the people of Trenton who maybe don't have a license
to get one And when we talk about the lack of managerial capacity, it's not that Mr. Simple doesn't want to do these things. Of course he does. I think he's trying as hard as he can. But in this really
constrained environment, it's impossible for the staff that is operating at limited capacity to be able to make all the funding applications for the money that's available but they can't get to build
the training program that they don't have but the folks need, right? To also maintain the equipment that hasn't been maintained and it's not their fault but it's been decades, right? It's too much to bear.
And that's why the regional approach makes sense because you're saying if you said it, if you did it, if you voted for it, if you chose it, you're saying that maybe we shouldn't be
bearing this all by ourselves and there's a better way to do it, right? Um, but I I think there's too many constraints and folks that are deeply experienced in this sector, they're not going to come from far and wide. We
haven't seen it happen. And we could say, well, maybe that's because the, you know, this government agency, you know, says one thing and then you got the DP saying this and you got the DC say DCA saying that. I am very familiar with that line of narrative, but it doesn't
hold true, right? It's not that those things aren't in themselves ways like in there in their own ways that they're not barriers. I'm not telling you that being on transitional aid is a picnic, right? But it's too many barriers to jump over
all at once. So the thinking is if you just get yourself out of this spiral, right? This spiral, you break out into building this better thing, right? That's the thinking behind
this. Okay. Thank you. Um, so I'm hearing that the the salaries are not competitive, that they're below market rate where engineers or um I forget some of the other titles that you mentioned are
receiving at their current position. So, it's not a good incentivation and being that the department isn't applying for these grants and things, so we're leaving money on the table that could go towards the budget to provide better compensation and salaries. Well, no,
because the money I'm suggesting being left on the table is um capital dollars, right? That's being left on the table. That wouldn't necessarily help you with your operational budget. But if you had a a really robustly staffed water system
with all the necessary levels of expertise that are needed, right, and the staff that was rightsized to it, you would be able to identify issues that are revenue losers and and remove them.
Right? So for example, this break and fix cycle that the system has been in for decades, it's actually costing you more money in the long term because you're paying for a temporary solution responding to a crisis which always
costs more. The intake failure is a good example of this, right? Where where you had to go out and solicit for emergency pumps. Now, we helped with some of that, right? in order to get things working on
a temporary basis while you then are investigating how to make the permanent solution. And so you're paying twice and that first time you're paying a lot more right there. That happens over and over and over again in this system, right? So
you're losing money because of the modality of the operations and and and management, right? And it's not anybody's fault because when things break and people need to get water, it's got to be fixed, right? We're talking about how do we put this in a position where that's it's not break and fix,
break and fix, break and fix. And what you so you'd save money there that could go to operations and then additionally, you're unquestionably losing water and losing revenue as a function of that within the aging distribution system. So, how you tighten it up to to make
sure that you're not losing water that is valuable when treated and sailable, that also boosts revenue, but you're you're you're too stretched to be able to do all of those things. And so,
moving to a different form within the same city structure, it's just not going to resolve those issues. Okay. So, I want to stay on the finances. uh you mentioned earlier that the finances are being obscured in some ways. Do you can you elaborate on that?
I think there are some things that are really hard to understand and the um both the the H2M TMF report um and the 360deree aluation get into this. It's very um it's very difficult
to obtain all of the financial information that's necessary for these reviews. And you know, part of that has to do and you'll see in the TMF an evaluation of the of the collections um you know uh area um you know at some
points you know you've been um in a position where you're having 20% of your bills unpaid right and now part of that there's a COVID lag for non-payment and yes that's part of the issue but when you look back historically over time that's happened for years and years and
years and years and It puts you at this risk of like at a solvency risk because then what's happening is you're budgeting for um a certain amount, right? The council is budgeting for a certain amount for the waterworks. The waterworks isn't using all of that
budget because it it can't get done all the things that it needs to do. So, there's a surplus that then gets carried over. some of that goes to support the general fund as you were mentioning, but then because of the unpaid bills, you're dwindling down that surplus and that surplus and that surplus, right? And so
you you've just got these multiple things all happening at the same time. And it needs the kind of shakeup that is a reinvention to get it right. And it's not that the folks that are there can't
be part of that reinvention. They necessarily are, but they can't do it by themselves. And just getting more effectively junior people to work from the bottom up in a system that doesn't have a program that trains them, you you
can't create the type of bandwidth that your top people need, right? Like take Dasia for example. She's the chief chemist, but she's also the backup operator. And I can tell that she like like she she wants she feels so strongly
about her. I can see it, right? That she's so invested in her work, but she's doing double duty, right? And I think that's you that's an example of what happens when you have um this thinned capacity and you just
you got to rebuild the whole thing to get it right. I do see some of the strain capacity that you're mentioning, but um I have one last question is simple question and it is probably the elephant in the room to council Feliciano's question to
piggyback off of her earlier. If we say no, we want to keep the current structure and work on the corrections, then what happens next? Do you go back and go to the state, whoever your um boss is at the state and say this is the report, this was the decision made by
the council and you know what does that look like? Are you just saying they said no, they want to work on it? Is there a re recommendation by you that is attached to that? And would that recommendation be for a court decision to force action? So again,
what we are doing here in order to help support the city is extra regulatory, right? It's not it's not part of our routine
uh compliance and enforcement job. If the city doesn't want to move forward, then then our work trying to help you move forward is over, right? If the
if but what then happens not because it's a consequence but just because of the way things work, right? We are we are obligated I am obligated to ensure compliance to the things that are
required right and those things that are required are not being met. Maybe they get met in which case we all move along. If they're still not met then
our only option and I'm not saying that that's tomorrow. Maybe maybe they do get met. Maybe you pursue this standalone entity that you're talking about and maybe that fixes things. It doesn't look like that will work. But eventually there comes a point when if compliance
isn't met, we are obligated to go to the court, right? It's not that that is a hammer somebody's wielding over wielding over your heads. There is an obligation. things that the city has agreed to do that it hasn't been able to do.
And all of that is I don't know that it's it's not going to magically get resolved, but no one thinks going to a court is going to magically make things better, right? It's going to cost time and it's going to cost money that we should spend on a
process evaluating a better way, right? At least that's our perspective. And at the end of the day, we implement the Safe Drinking Water Act from the federal government and the state
government. If we are unable to ensure that Trenton Waterworks meets all the requirements, then the federal government can step in. I don't know
if or when that would ever happen and I certainly wouldn't ask, but that's a risk, too. I couldn't tell you what happens. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Council Vice President. Um,
I'm going to see Councilman Harrison and then we're going to kind of close out this this portion. Um, let's start off. You said you've been the commissioner for five years, correct? Five and a half. Five and a half. Five and a half years. Okay. Five and a half years. Where are you located? Where's your office
located? Two blocks away. Exactly. So, so five and a half years. You take one trip in June, right? In 2025, right? And you said your staff in the past had taken pictures. Why have those pictures from your staff never
been in the paper? I mean, you you yourself brought up the election coming up, right? With a new governor coming in, you're probably going to be out of a job. Correct. Correct. That's that's possible, but irrelevant.
Is irrelevant because because it seems like you have already determined these things, right? But you're so close to here, right? But for five and a half years, right? You were part with the previous council, too. I was part of the previous council. The DP was supposed to
fine the previous council for not passing the bonds. What happened? The DP never find anybody. The D was going to give us mid-level staffing. Never happened. So, you know, you're talking you're talking the game here. I'm not. Yeah, you are. No, I'm not, sir. But I'll answer your
question. So legally there is from a water quality uh and safe drinking water act compliance perspective there is only the city of Trenton
that there is infighting politically between different arms of that city government is irrelevant to our obligation to ensure your compliance. Right. So the fact that there was another city council who wouldn't vote
things I understand that that was a constraint. Right. But that is not something that the state can resolve for you. Right. It is the job of the the city and the
folks who represent it to resolve those issues. Clearly the voters took sta took stock of that issue. But it's not as though the DP has to find a council member. That's not the
way it works. Just like the DP does not find you employees. That is your job. Right. So you're saying that your previous Who was the commissioner before you? Commissioner McCabe. Right. That's correct. Right. Exactly. So, Commissioner McCabe
was going to find the council for not passing the bonds. So, I'm guessing you hadn't read the forms. You hadn't read the documentation. There is document. I was the chief counsel to to Commissioner McCabe. I know exactly what happened. And we filed a lawsuit
that cited how the council at that time was effectively undermining the public health in this city. Okay. So, so you're saying this council has passed every bond and and we're moving forward.
No, I'm not saying that. You are. Okay. So, what are you trying to You What you're saying is your vision is to come in our city because you only work over here, right? Your vision is do this and everything will be good. Correct. That's not what I've said at all.
That's right. Cuz I'm telling you right now, you you're more of a politician, I think, than any of us up here. Because I'm telling you right now, I highly doubt that we're turn you're turning the tables around in this room right now and and it's blowing my mind to hear you what you said. We were supposed to reach out
to you, but you're so close to us for five year and a half years. You never once you took one trip, one trip and then those pictures. Have you been there? Have I been where the Trent Woodworks? Been in the waterworks. Yes, I have been there. I've been there. Yes, exactly.
It is your job, not mine. Okay. I cannot say the strong. You're right. So, you're right. We're wasting our time. Thank you. Thank you for coming here. I'm not council. Oh my goodness. So, we're going to wrap up this portion
of it, but I do just want to um make sure that we're clear on what we heard tonight. We did hear that the comprehensive performance evaluation plan has not been completed. Um, you did state that our water quality is currently meeting the safe drink
drinking water standards. So, we are in compliance at the moment. Your water quality results are not your full compliance with the Safe Drinking Water Act. Okay. But, um, Commissioner, you just stated at the beginning when I asked you
that we were So, did I misunderstand you when you said that? But you're misrepresenting the issue and stating it that way. The the city of Trenton is not compliant
with the Safe Drinking Water Act. The city of Trenton remains in serious non-compliance with the Safe Drinking Water Act. You are cherrypicking one thing, ma'am.
No, no, no. I'm I'm just I'm just reiterating everything that was stated here today. I'm only stating what you said earlier today when No, you're repeating your question of me. You're not the question. I don't want to be here to attack you, Commissioner. I'm I'm asking
the question. We asked the question and that was your response to us. You said it was of standard. So, just I just want to make sure the record here reflects that the city of Trenton is in serious non-compliance with the safe drinking and it currently states, can I just read
just just really quickly? Trenton Waterworks is currently under direct operational oversight by the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protections due to past and ongoing compliance issues while the NJD has confirmed that Trenton Waterworks water is safe to
drink based on valid data including hourly testing at the filtration plants. There have been instances of non-compliance with monitoring and reporting. However, it is in current compliance with the the the safe drinking water standard. So, I'm just
stating what's even said here and what you stated. But I like I said, we don't need to go back and forth. It's not to go back and forth. I was just trying to make sure everyone understood what important because that's only a part of the picture. Okay. It's only a part of the picture. There are serious failures beyond that. So, so just
there's serious failures. M Please don't pretend that there's not. Mr. Commissioner, we we also I know you just stated I think council vice president asked um public, can you please calm down? Thank you. Um I think council vice president had touched to it
and your response to her was that um you wouldn't be able to help us if we said no. And I see that you're here telling us that you you know you're you don't want to take it from us. You care about the city of Trenton and the water department and all these things. But as I would think as you would want to advocate for one the funding for us to
receive it not just because we're the capital city but because of your job as our commissioner um two so that we can increase salaries if we needed to do that to attract the people that we need from outside areas and then also just
advocating for our surv surrounding municipalities who have outstanding balances with the tren water department. There are several there are several other municipalities who owe us money and and that's and I'm
not saying that's going to fix the entire thing. However, those millions of dollars that are owed to us from our surrounding municipalities that we do serve would help with the improvements of our infrastructure and that and that's all I just want to I just I see I hear your passion, but you
have to understand our passion, too. And there things that we we want to see for the residents of our city as well as the other four municipalities that we service. So with that, Commissioner, I know there was a lot of back and forth. Um I'm so thankful that you were able to come here and and and listen to us and
listen to the questions, but I do want to ask if you could please say Oh, sorry. I you sure? Um, I do want to ask if you would would not mind staying just to listen to some of our public and I would ask the public who is going to speak to please let's be
respectful and not be in an attack mode. However, get your point across and it's fine for us to, you know, voice our opinions, but I do want it to be done in a respectful manner and I would really hope that you will stay and listen to the constituents here in our area.
Thank you so much, Mr. Commissioner. Uh, can we just take like a two-minute break if you like if you what's that? I was going to say maybe a two-minute break if anyone needs to use the rest room and then we'll allow this. We'll start with the public comment. That's fine by me. And I will stay for
the public comment. I hear what everyone has to say. Thank you. But I hope you've also heard today what what I've said. I care deeply about the public health of the and the people in this city deeply.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Commissioner. Um, we'll take a quick twominut restroom break. Two. Two. Cuz I'm starting literally in two minutes. No, cuz they going to leave. Girl, there's two bathrooms. Go to the
mayor's office. I Yes. Sydia. and Right. All right. Mr. Garcia, I think we have four members. Council members, y'all ready? [Music]
We got one, two, three, four. Councilwoman Williams and Council Feliciano. Y'all ready? Madam President, Madam President, I believe we still have a quorum on your call. We can begin. Yeah, we have I waiting for one more. Uh, Councilwoman
not been provided. I'm going to echo what Miss Tea Brown Humphrey said earlier. Trenton Waterworks is not the only water system within finished water uncovered reservoir. We are not the only
ones. We are, I agree, in violation of covering that, but we do have a Pennington reservoir replacement plan that is going to address that. I am Dasia Brooks, the chief chemist of
Trenton Waterworks, who holds a T3 license operator, which means I am contracted, a licensed contractor of the state. I am working at a facility that does not pay me what I'm worth. But I am working here and I'm providing these results because I care and I will continue to do
my job and I will continue to follow the law and I will continue to train my staff because we do have a training program and my staff is trained on a monthly basis and they will continue to be trained and we will continue to be transparent. I personally reported the
person who was not doing the right thing and I will always report someone who does not follow the law. Thank you. Jerome Wakefield. Good evening. My name is Jerome Wakefield. I'm the supervising employment specialist for
the water utility and also function as the deputy director of operations. I thank you for this opportunity uh to speak tonight because some of the things here are just simply untrue that have been presented today. All right. I like to start out with don't regionalize.
Recognize that they trying to take us over. No matter what they call it, no matter how they try to control the narrative to say it's something else, it amazes me that when you walk into this chamber and
and the commissioner had the the nerve to allude to it that what Trenton makes the world takes. When they made that expression, they did not mean they got our utility. Now, they made the allegation that we
don't train. That's false. And I'm responsible for training. And since I've been here since 2023, we provide training internally, externally, not not just for uh our managers, our supervisors, our employees. and we have
developed a centralized repository for all our standing operating procedures which did not previously exist. Now one of the things that when they talk about regionalization and how it's going to help we already have a leader and our
mayor but in that change with our mayor some things have happened. We had a change in the director Mr. Simple there who's leading us at the utility. We've had a change, they say in management, and I came on, you know, at the supervising specialist. We've had a
change in the BA who's directing us in operations and and how we collaborate and work things out. And as you know, we have a change in the municipal government, right, for the for the most part. And we continue with two people who formerly were part of it and now
very instrumental. So they should not under or devalue that. Okay. So when you listen to the commissioner and I know one question brought up by Mr. Harrison, well when the governor leaves or is your job up? It may not be. He may be leaving soon. I think he is. But when he leave,
don't let him take the water with him. Okay? He may have plans to be the director of the MUA. It's out there speculative or whatever, but whatever it is, this is still our asset. And and as uh uh uh council person Williams said
and others, there's value to our asset. Don't give it away. Don't give it to others. Now, the commissioner I grant has some ability and oratory skills, but don't be baffled. You know, I was taught in law school, you know,
you either dazzle them with brilliance or baffling with the BS. But he had said some things. For instance, he gave us this scenario. If you go left to right, all right, you got over here status quo. Over here you got
privatization. And then he said little bit to the right you got regionalization. But what he didn't say between status quo and regionalization was us surviving on our own with help with investment with infrastructure. So
those things are crucial, right? And so when you talk about and and you have to understand for those that don't the public, there was a shift. They had their two-year time frame for doing oversight. So then they send this letter out how they're pivoting now to compliance and enforcement. I don't care
if it's enforcement or oversight is not going to be done if the money ain't right. So you got to put that investment there no matter what your excuse is for not putting it in there. Right? So that's what you have to understand. And so when you come with this
regionalization uh approach under the opaces that they gonna help us they're going to as as he said support this was not support this is supplanting this is taking over when he told us there was if you listen to him there was
a depth of the process no this is the death of the process if you don't stick to your guns and do what's right in this scenario which you have been doing since you've been here. As she plenty pointed out, y'all have been voting and supporting things of that nature. You
will continue to do it. Your questions and your comments have been very insightful, but don't get baffled. See, but the issue here is not you getting baffled because you educated, qualified, elected people. But I don't want the public to be baffled by some of the things that have been said, but patently
false. Okay? Because he has the oratory ability. The issue here is in large part DP who says they're helpful have been in our way. They they have been blocking certain things. They think that their
role is to criticize us and somehow when they say jump we put to say how high when when they recommend a procedure or process certain disagree we're not being cooperative. Thank you Mr. John. Gosh.
Sean sample. Good evening everyone. Sean Sample, director of the water and so utility. I want to thank the commissioner and the staff for coming out tonight for this presentation. But I do have some something to offer towards this. Um,
first of all, I work with a a bunch of very qualified, hardworking ladies at the plant. I got guys who are very hardworking. They could go anywhere and get a job. They have the licenses. They have the
experience, but they choose to stay in Trenton Waterworks because they love this place. And I'm here with them. I could retire next year, but I'm not going anywhere. I want to see this whole process through. So, a couple of things that that I'm worried
about. We on the brink of catastrophic disaster, but this two-year study, what going to happen in the next two years? Why this study go on? Should we be concerned at this point?
I'm scared if with with the the the the the strength of what was said tonight. He means tomorrow the plan could go down. But we going to wait so long. What going to happen in that time? Could any company or any entity come and change
things? We've been here working very very hard for the last two years. But what the successes of what we've done so far is not being told. Yes. We have we have work to do and with I have to thank the council. You all
have approved everything that I've brought in front of you. And I must say I shouldn't say this but the mayor might might not like it. Had it been the last council sitting there I would not accept this job because I was employee working under
Mark Lavvenberg when I saw what he went through with that council. But we are making progress and I would like the opportunity to continue fighting and making this this work. Now let's talk
about Legionella for a minute. I'm not an expert. I'm not a scientist, but I have to take part in every case that is found within our water utility system. What I've unc discovered
with the DO and I asked the question at the last meeting, you test the water at the house. We are not privy to know where the cases are, which is fine. It's a hippo law, but at the same token, they test these houses.
Every case, some cases is not attributed to the water system. I asked them, "Are you testing the house for any other source that might cause Legionella?" Because it's not just water. You could get it from, you could get it from the
air conditioned systems. Look in Harlem right now, there are almost 100 people in hospital. Four died from Legionella from the cooling system. I was told that they're not required to look into other entities, just the water
source. That's not fair to us. And it's still whether the tests come out positive or negative within these houses is still a case in trend. It don't go away. It's our is my problem. You know, I don't think we've
been treated fairly when it comes to that. Lastly, I'm going to touch on the well the had the reservoir situation. The reservoir cover. Yes, we're in violations from since 2009,
but we have done further study as to the pro the process that was put in place. It the cover in the reservoir with a cover the type of material the maintenance involved with it would only last a period of 13 years. So every 13 years you have to put new a new cover in
the reservoir. And if anyone knows the geometry of the reservoir is very complex. So, we choose the route of putting in doing uh tanks within our system. It's going to take a little more time, but it's the safer and the longer and the
best way to move forward with us. And we plan to also build a brand new pump station because our pump station is old. But we not getting credit for that. Our progress is not being shown at all. We're not being recognized for
the good that we're doing. And I would back all my employees right now. Yes, they're not paid enough. I And the commission is right about I agree with him on that point. But they love this this city. They love this utility and
we're not ready to just give it up like that. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Paul Bethe [Music] um 55 Alden Avenue. First of all, I just
got a I just came in and um got a whip that the water uh something wrong with the water, but I've been drinking the water for uh 66 years and I haven't got sick. So, uh and I get tested all all
the time. But, uh the water department is run perfectly. I I I know that myself and uh I would like to ask the mayor. Um he said something that the mayor was
uh at the table and he knew everything but he didn't tell us. You see uh and where's the money that where the last council was up here gave a lot of money to the water department. What?
Sorry. I'm sorry. That's okay. Huh? I'm sorry. That's okay. But but anyway, I know. But anyway anyway. But anyway, where the last time I knew we was
council was up here, they gave a lot of money to the water department for improvements. And where's that money at? And I know like Sean said, Sean is a good Edmond himself been working for the water department. Good good quality
water out of there. I've been drinking city water for God knows how long. Haven't got sick yet. But it seems like the whole realm of it is that they want to take it. And they not looking at all
the good things about the water. they looking at all the small things because everything he said they checked him on it and he couldn't get out of check. So it ain't nothing wrong with the water like uh last time uh the last council
was up here we went to the state house and uh the mayor had um this Chinese guy and he told and he told the mayor that the uh oh Dr. Shay, I'm sorry, mayor. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know, but the
mayor did had to study, but Dr. Shay, he studied and he found out that the lead was coming through the pipes of the house. So, uh, what he's saying and it all coming
around to be that they after the water. And I'm saying to all of y'all, it's in the makings. Because if it wasn't in the makings, he wouldn't have never filed the lawsuit. So what I'm saying to y'all, y'all going
to have to lawyer up and deal with the lawyer wise because if you don't, it's serious. If you don't, they're going to steal it right underneath your feet just like they did. The hospital is shut down.
Brunswick Avenue, same thing. Look at Trenton now. If they take that, what's going to happen to us homeowners? We already homeless. You got people sleeping in the street.
We have no other revenue. And if they take that, guess what? They going to take everything you got. But it's one important thing that he failed to mention to y'all. If y'all do solidate, what's going to happen to their jobs?
What's going to happen to their jobs, their home, their cars? Listen, we're down with y'all. Y'all doing a good job. We ready to fight. Okay? I don't care what they say. We're ready. Let them know. Stay in your
office because trans residents are ready to fight. Okay? God bless y'all. And I'm leave something to Robin Vaugh in a minute because I want her to uh hand Thank you, Miss Bethea.
[Music] [Laughter] [Music] Robin Vaughn. Robin Vaughn, 1100 Styverson Avenue. resident and taxpayer
property taxes, contributing to the funding of all the departments, all nine departments of the city in Trenton, including the Department of Water. $10,700 a year that I contribute to fund our
departments, including Trenton Waterworks. That is what Tinton residents do that the townships that we service can never do. We have a tax obligation that backs Triton Waterworks.
We are liable for all those bonds. So th that regionalization is unlawful, unconstitution, undemocratic, and it will never happen.
So, let me get started here. Um, I just want to play some comments that Mr. Law Tourett made that you guys will find very interesting.
Hopefully, drinking standards. Lette testified about Trenton's water supply at an assembly budget hearing in April where he offered a stark opinion on the capital's leadership. My honest opinion is that the water system needs to be untied from the city
government itself. We're going to untie the city and then we're going to merge them with four other municipalities. Who is the expertise? You recruit it. You bring it in. And why can't DP do that now? because no
one will work with the city of Trenton. an anti- regionalization campaign has also begun in tied to okay he says he said that he had an interview with our assembly woman
Valvelina Reynolds Jackson and she asked him what is he proposing to do with Trenton Waterworks and he said I'm offering you my honest opinion the water system needs to be untied from the city government
itself. So all what he said here was disingenuous, fraudulent. He wants to take it as Mr. Pais said from you guys.
You are I submitted earlier that the New Jersey BPU, the board of public utilities deem you the border directors of Trenton Waterworks. You have total authority of that water utility, not the mayor. He
should not be out here running roughshod meeting with the regulator without you guys. Okay? You are the board of directors and I want the city and the residents and taxpayers to know that. So you have the fiduciary obligation. You have more
power than this gentleman. He can't come in here and tell us to do anything with all any asset in the city of Trenton. So I would say this is state government overreach, interference in municipal
affairs. It violates the New Jersey Home Rule Act of 1917 and the New Jersey Constitution of 1947. for the United States Environmental Protection Agency.
The job of D. If our water department is in violation, the EPA or the state can take enforcement actions to ensure compliance, which may include requiring a system to
implement corrective actions with an agreed plan and timeline or impose penalties, which the city of Trenton produced. We produce properly funded. We properly funded against those
violations. We provided a $450 million six-year plan submitted to DP in 2020 when I was on the council. It doesn't include them usurping Trenton voters, the city council powers by issuing RFPs
unilaterally this that support a state D solution. It doesn't demand it doesn't allow them to demand a sale to a private corporation like American Water. It doesn't allow him to propose reorganization structures
like reorganization. And it certainly doesn't allow him to usurp the 202010 referendum. Strong army you guys city council to force you to relinguish control. Thank you, Miss Vaughn.
That's your time, Miss Vaughn. Next. Uh, next person up, we have Kathy McBride. Oh, okay. And then after that, we have Miss Clarissa Bell. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, council president. Um, I'd just like to
point out a couple things and then I'll get to some real information. The first thing was um your address. Kathy Pride, 46 Laurel Place, Trenton, New Jersey. I want to point out a couple things that um Mr. Lour uh stated when
he was here. The first thing he stated was that the mayor sat down with him to write the RFP, which you didn't know because no one told you. The second thing I wanted to point out, he said it's not his job to come here, but his old boss, Katherine McCabe, every time
she met with the mayor, she met with the council. We never could go as a group because, you know, in violation, but we went 332. my council vice chair, which was Marge Carwell Wilson. She accompanied me on
most of every meeting that I went to. I never did a press conference with the mayor and didn't have my vice chair with me. Then he pointed out something else. He said that he stopped the lawsuit two years ago. He stopped the lawsuit two
years ago that Mr. Bridges sat here and told you that was still in effect. You cannot be dishonest with that body because you represent the body. You or Mr. Colloji should have told them that that lawsuit was on pause. To not tell
them and to be disingenuous about that is a violation because you cannot mislead the council. The third thing, no, we're not we're not going back and forth. The the third the third thing is
Okay, he's violating my time. Director director can we allow her to finish? Okay. So the the third thing is the city administrator which is the mayor the executive branch
and the executive branch of the state um part of the executive branch of the state is D. So you have two executive positions when they come together with the acco. The acco is rules and regulations. They they guide us. You
have DCA that is over us monitoring everything that we do. You have the infrastructure bill. The infrastructure um let me get that right. The infrastructure bank and the I bank
that is also overseen by the state. So you got the acco, you got the DCA, you got the infrastructure bank, which is the I bank, and then when you go to make
decisions to hire, you have to go through DCA. You got DCA that you have to go through to get approved to bring in people that's making a certain amount of money. Then you have the acco that's telling you what your violations are. And then you have the Treasury
Department, which is the infrastructure bank that is guiding our AAA and our double A ratings. So you have all of these departments from the state under the same umbrella. That is Murphy's
umbrella. And they sent their guy here to tell you it's either or get off the pack. And I'm telling Murphy and his guy that you don't have the right to pressure this council because the day
that you sat down with the mayor to write that RFP, this council should have been notified. You came up here this evening and you were very disrespectful in my eyesight. You were cutting off the council. You were going toe to toe.
There's a certain decorum when people come up here in front of you. And the other thing is you as a council of this city represent 84,000 people. They don't have the right to tell you how to vote, how to cast your vote. You cast your
vote based on your constituents. If your constituents say, "Hey, we want to take this to court," then that's where we're going. But the message that I want to send here today is all of those bodies. I apologize. I thought I had turned this off. Is all of the bodies that I spoke
to you about, the ACL, the DCA, the uh infrastructure bank, that's all under Murphy. And Murphy sends this guy here to tell you, hey, if you don't do this, we're going to do this. Well, let me tell Murphy something and you can
take this back to him. the residents in the city of Trenton, we are ready to fight. We fought in 2010 to keep this water. Why can't the uh Trenton have an authority here and we pick the people? Oh, they're so bright out in the townships. We need them on our board.
No, I think not. I think that we have intelligent people in the city of Trenton. If you want to form a board to form it, but don't let nobody come in here and tell you what you should do and how you should vote. And that's all I have to say. Thank you, Mr. B. [Music]
Next person up, we have Clarissa Bell, followed by Jacobus Vulcanberg. Thank you. Thanks for having me to come up and talk. And I want to say good evening to everyone. I don't have to call you by
name or titles or anything like that, but name and address, please. Miss, I'm sorry. Name and address, please. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. My name is Clarissa Bell and I live at 154 Gerard Avenue in Trenton, New Jersey. And I've been here ever since I
was 10. My mom moved to Trenton and I love Trenton and I love the people here. And I feel as though if you guys merge with the other townships and they already owe us money, how you going to do something
with somebody that already owe us money? you calling them, they should be paying us the money that they owed us. And maybe we will have something to work with. The state, if I'm not mistaken, unless they don't got caught all up, the
state also owe New Jersey. Oh, I mean old Trenton. And they should be tra pay paying Trenton their money. Pay the water per pay the city of Trenton. And then we might not need DP
if everybody do what they supposed to do, you know, and you guys I don't feel as though that you're fair cuz just to say we're not going to get anything from the
state cuz basically that's what you're saying, you know, and that's what I'm hearing, you know, but you're going to help everybody all the other cities but not trend. You know, and I think that's so wrong.
Just because if you want to be, think about it. Just because if we decide to say no that we're not going to merge, you just going to take everything away from us. That's all that's and they've been trying to steal the waterwork for the
loans for years. I mean, we had to go out and vote against this. And this is another thing that I feel as though that the so-called mayor that we don't pick is not doing right by us. You know, he's not doing right by us.
These this is one of the things I do not like that our mayor is doing and a lot of other people too. They just not here to speak on it, but they don't say it to me.
And you know, I'm going to let that be it and let somebody else talk. But I just want you guys to vote no on this. I said it at the last meeting and I'm saying it again. They're being sneaky,
but he made it kind of open. this commission. He made it real open. Like they say, if you don't say yes, he they're not gonna help us. They're gonna basically get rid of all of you.
And everybody in the department in in the water work, too, cuz that's the way the state works. Trust me, I used to work for the state. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Bell.
We have Jacobis Bulenberg. Oh, thank you. Followed by Christopher Ra. [Music] Thank you. Thank you. My name is Jacob Wallenberg. I live 29 AI Denzen. Thank
you so much council as a DP commissioner as well as your staff. Thank you so much for coming. I know we've been a target tonight. I think the most important part for me is just to say thank you number one for putting this out in the open. The mayor
has asked for this. It's very important as a resident here. I love this city. Only been here about four to five years, but I made it my home. It's very important. But we have to keep in mind as well there's a lot of politics involved apparently. There's a lot of
bad feelings going on as well. But this is our resources for the entire region. It goes above and beyond Trenton even though that's what we're talking about here. But it is a resource where we're underserving right now that we could do
much more with. So I would hope that going forward that for all of us that we move forward and we actually turn this into something that we built as Tranonians to help everybody around us.
But we need help for that. Most importantly, I'd like to know what the real issues are. Just transparency, openness, let us know what's really going on. Keep the politics out of it. I'm just a taxpayer. I can't even vote.
I'm a foreigner. I came from a country. I come originally from Holland. Water is a resource. It's also a huge danger. We take it out of politics completely. We do not allow that. Yes, they're funded. Yes, it is important. But when it comes
down to it, the most important part is take care of the people that it serves. Take care of the the danger that it poses as well. and then let the politicians take the decisions because you are chosen by us again to represent
us. I implore you to please keep that in mind. Put all the political stuff aside because it's not important in the long run. It could be 10. We're building something for 20, 30, 40 years from now for our children's children. And that's what I do believe in and I appreciate
you keeping that in mind and helping us with that. Thank you. Thank you. up next we have Christopher. All right, Miss Carolyn Clark,
followed by Miss Marge Calwell Wilson. Good evening, Tranonians, Council, Commissioner Lerette, and staff. It's very good to see you in person. So, the first thing I'd like to say is
name and address. I apologize. Caroline Clark, 1812 Riverside. So the first thing is there was a quote unquote fact versus fiction sheet that was passed around. Presumably it was
prepared by DP. I want to say that the first one under fiction which says a decision has been made regarding regionalizing Trenton Waterworks. That is not fiction. That is fact. It's in
the wrong column sir because you issued an RFP and in that RFP you said you are looking for an expert in regionalization. There was no proposal. The only proposal
was for the person to submit that they were an expert and therefore they were going to charge us for that service. So there was no ifands or buts about it. That decision was already made.
Now on to my prepared statements. So according to the DP's website, uh between 2009 and 2018, uh D issued us two documentations of non-compliance
between 2018 and now they issued us 16 non-compliance. One month after Murphy came in, we were placed under consent order. 6 months later, we were in the the legislature
put up a bill to regionalize Trenton Waterworks. At that point in time, we didn't have any pictures from Mr. Lerette. We didn't have an employee who failed to do samples. We had none of these violations
that we're touting here as the reasons for regionalization. Before any of that happened, a bill was up to regionalize Trenton Waterworks. So, a predetermined outcome started in
2018. In 2020, that same bill came up again. In 2022, that same bill came up again. And now that we are almost at the end of Murphy's term, when he thinks there is very little political fallout,
now is when he decides he going to put it up again. So this ain't about safety. If this was about safety, the energy and the effort and the bully pulpit that's being used to force us into
regionalization, you would have used that same bully pulpit, the same force, the same energy, and you would have forced us to fix. This ain't about safety. It's about who collects that money. And it's not Tranonians.
So I would also like to say that this term of regionalization it is wrong. This is no regionalization. This is moving wealth from the city of
Trenton to richer and wider towns. Regionalization is a work around the referendum. The referendum said you cannot sell. So what do they want to do? They want to slow walk you. It's death by a million cuts. They want to now take that water
and put it into the ownership of people who've already indicated they are willing to sell. It's a workaround. Do not be fooled. It's a ruse. It's not about your safety. It's about their profits. I would also like to say that this this
discussion about relegion, please stop it again. Plenty of people have addressed it. Five town, five counties had Legionellas. You didn't go and usurp America's they were serviced by American Water. You didn't try and usurp American
Waters board of governance, right? So why are we being treated differently? So um your position is very arbitrary. You put out an RFP and in that RFP you stated that American Water and Aqua Water use Trenton's water Trenton
Waterworks' pipe. So if our water is bad, their water bad too. So how you trying to sell us to them? Okay. So Tranonians, we do have problems, but the solution must meet the problem. We can do it without voter
disenfranchisement cuz that's what this is. We can do it without the wealth transfer because this is what this is. And you can just tell us, don't bother with the regionalization study because we ain't regionalizing. Thank you, Miss Clark.
Thank you. M I mean, uh up next we have Miss Marge Cwell Wilson followed by Miss Mary Horn. Is you on here, right? Good evening, council. Council President. Um, my name is March Coobo
Wilson. I live at 246 Jackson Street and I'm very happy that the previous speaker mentioned a forensic audit because the last council did pay for a forensic audit, but the water company and all the
paperwork was such a mess. It took them forever gathering materials to do a report. And when they gave us a report, there was at least six red flags on that report. And um Councilman Harrison should remember that. But when the when
the contract was up and they hadn't completed the audit, um the majority of council didn't support her because they didn't want to pay them. So that's a big mistake because we just threw $250,000
out the window. And I think you need to follow up on that and have them finish that order because they can give you a paper trail has to because I think a lot of the problems in Trent Water Company has to do with finances and the distribution of funds for certain jobs.
Um anyway, I I I just wanted to say that first of all to the commissioner. I was very uncomfortable tonight the way you were addressing council and I thought that you were sort of disrespectful and I don't appreciate it. This is not
your house. maybe DP is, but this is our house and we expect you to respect our city leaders. Um, so I didn't appreciate that. Then we get this flyer tonight from D and it's it's like a scare
tactic. And if you look at who is impacted on that, the customers, 55% of the customers that use Trenton Water come from the suburbs. 45% comes
from the city of Trenton. These municipalities don't seem to care the fact that they are customers and they don't they can't tell us how to do our business and how to spend our profits. So with this regionalization, if they become part of it, we'll have
representation on that board. However, they're going to want to share some of the profits when they don't even pay their bills now. So I I think that you really need to start taking a long look at this because we've been down this road before. We had
a referendum in this city and the people of the city of Trenton spoke and said, "We do not want to change what we're doing with this water company. The city of Trenton runs it. This is ours. This is where we get our revenues from." So,
don't be fooled by the the folks coming in out of the hen house because let me tell you something. This is this this has been going on for years and shame on you, Governor Murphy, because you've got your minions out
there trying to do your job for you and we know what's going on. So, I ask you to think about this very strongly, council members, and I appreciate everything you had to say tonight, but you've got to think about this. This can be fixed, and we don't need them telling
us what to do with our water company. Thank you. Thank you. Up next, we have Miss Mary Horn, followed by Miss Alisa Robinson Carter. Thank you.
Good evening, council. I'll only be five minutes. So, I feel like I got water on the brain because this subject has been name and address, please, sir. Mary Horn, Parkside Avenue, Trenton. Thank you. Again, I feel like I have
water on the brain because we've been talking about our water utility forever. 2010, 2018, thank God bomb for that year. And now 2025. Now
when uh I read where generally um Legionella generally doesn't cause uh health risk if a person drinks the water. Also
I read where Minnesota had 17 cases in 2004 and 115 in 2016. Now, the people that are most susceptible uh to get the Legionnaires
are are people who are 50 years or older. They're men, they're smokers or have lung disease. They're they're they're compromised by uh the water if they drink it and has the Legionnaires. Also,
I read the article where Clemington has been having dirty water off and on for the last they're saying for the last 10 or more years. I find it strange that the D is not
overreaching and trying to look for oversight on Clemington's water. So, and they're still having the issue. They said they reached out to the D and the D asked them to file a complaint and that's where it's at right now.
So, in having said that, I just like to say that um the council, if we're doing our job and you do your job, we can't let someone just come in here again and try to take our Trenton Waterworks.
I know that Trenton Waterworks has the option to buy water in cases of emergency such as the frozen river and that that happened an emergency. So the work is always ongoing with Trenton Waterworks.
It doesn't cease. And I believe they're doing I I don't believe I know they're doing a good job. Trent Waterworks is a selfquidating utility and we generate millions of dollars a year to pay their employees,
you know, for maintenance separately from uh the city's uh separately from the city's debt fund. Sorry, I'm just going on where I'm tired. But having said that, I'm glad to live in Trenton. Trenton is
a great city and our waterworks is our major asset here in the city and those jobs at Trenton Waterworks should go to Trentonians. Those are the ones that should be
working here. We're not only rateayers, we're taxpayers, too. We're owners of the waterworks. But it comes together to say to say just say this. If the townships wants to have the say so on our waterworks, they might as well just
walk in, take our house keys and go live in our homes. Do that. Come do that. And then we'll leave home and walk out and walk the streets and try to find somewhere else to live. You know, the townships, we don't need
for the townships to tell us what to do with our water works. We have staff that are very knowledgeable and know what to do. And like I said, yes, we have some issues, but it's ongoing. So, we're we're working with that. The
work is ongoing and we'll get it done. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Yes. What's the next person? Um, Miss Alisa Robinson Carter. Thank you. And, um, while Miss Lisa is
coming up forward, um, Director Bridges wanted me to inform the public that the status of the current litigation. There's a copy of it at the back table if anyone would like to see it. She uh, she's not here. Um, uh, yes, she left. So, up next, we have
uh, Stephanie Robinson. Oh, all right. followed by Miss Diane Collins. Please state your name and address. Um, hello, my name is Stephanie Robinson. I don't have an address cuz due to homelessness,
um, the guy that was talking about um, realization, I still feel as though like I went to a meeting at the school a while back, the D admitted that we have been doing lovely with our water. So, I don't know what this complaint all sudden about we want to do reardization and these towns owe us our money. I
still want to do a class action lawsuit against these towns because they owe us our money. How can you uh what that saying? It costs to be the boss. You want you want say so, you have to pay for it. You don't pay for it, you have no say so. That's just how I feel about that one. I don't like um the
commissioner's attitude. I think it's very disrespectful. I think he's just here like they said, everyone has said due to Phil Murphy, I don't care for him. I'm very happy that he will be gone and I will never have to see him again. I have also um some other complaints. I
like the fact that we have been doing a great job with our water, but I don't like the fact that we've been underfunded for so long that now all of a sudden you want to come and complain about our water, but now we're doing all of sudden because we're doing a great job now. Now you want to come
and become you know, captain save them. That's an insult to us. I don't like that you under you undermined us Trinitonians with our with your attitude. I don't like the way they spoke to the um council people. Shout out to y'all for answering a lot of our questions of how we felt and defending us and having our back. No, I don't want
realization. I don't want no township having no say. So, I don't care how they feel if they I would rather them have their own build their own water reserves than to touch ours if they feel so strongly about our water, but yet we're doing great job to the best of our ability, but yet being underfunded for
so long. Um, another, um, thing I noticed when you ask certain questions of, oh, we can't speak about that. I don't care for the person who keeps saying that. I would love for him to be voted out. Um, he know who he is. I'm not going to even say it. Um, what else
I would like to say about the water? I I just wish that we would have the funding for our water. I don't want to hear no excuses on why we can't have it. I don't like the fact that we keep being blocked. All these dog on excuses because you want to control y'all say about realization. And I feel as though what's going to happen is we're going to
have less say. So we're not going to have no control of the water. Then we have to go to New Jersey Supreme Court to cry about how we don't have no control, how they going all all they care about is having our money and then that's about it. I want no resilation. I would like for us to keep our water is our greatest asset. I love this town and
um that's about it. Thank you, Miss Robinson. Up next we have Miss Diane Collins. followed by Mr. George Daniels. Thank you. Please state your name and
address. My name is Diane Collins. I live in East Trenton. And um I wanted to say that um I think that the mayor has done a good
job so far. Um, he's been here two terms and I think they've done a good job and we I really appreciate it. I really appreciate this meeting. First time I ever been to a meeting like this for about the water. I'm 72 years old. Never been sick by this water. This water has
taken me had I'm I'm alive. I don't have no bumps, no marks, no nothing on me because of that water. That water takes care of the plants, takes care of the squirrels, take care of all the animals out here. and would water our our yard and everything. So, I just wanted to let
you know that um whatever you make a decision to take care of the water, I think it's okay the way it is, but there are things that need to be fixed. But if we have money, give us the money, we'll take care of it. We don't need a whole bunch of people to come in here and take
care of us. We take care of ourselves. That's what Trenton is for. And thank you very much for listening to what I have to say. Thank you so much. Up next we have Mr. George Daniels. All right. Could I have Mr. Daryl Luke Navage?
Oh, Miss Daryl. She's walking. I think I'm right followed by Mr. Brady Rivera. Good evening everyone. My name is Daryl Bless Navage. I live at 34 Peric Harris
Place, Trenton, New Jersey. I'd like to thank the commissioner for being here tonight for a hostile meeting. Um I wanted to make a point that this is the asset, the Trenton Waterworks is the
asset of the city of Trenton. If the other municipalities, Euing, Hamilton, Elwell, and Lawrence want to have equal say, and since our Waterworks is a is a multi-billion
dollar company, then I think that each of these municipalities should put in a billion dollars if they want to have ownership. If you want the ownership, you got to pay for it. It's our our um waterworks. I'm not saying that we shouldn't meet
with them and discuss concerns and issues, but ultimately it's our utility. Um the reservoir cover, I understand it's a terrorism threat and I believe
longer than we've had violation with um with the EP that it's been in question for a long long time. But I'm not sure. But I'm, you know, it's it's gravity feed because it's up higher than everything else. And there's a lot
of talk about potential long-term electric outages. And if that happens, they can gravity feed the water and we'd still get it, whereas most other places would not. So, you got to weigh that as another issue. And again, it's going to take a while to follow through and
finish up. I'm also concerned that there's a concern about the people that are running the the waterworks, especially that they're women, and secondly that they're minorities, that they're black,
just because of whatever they are, if they're very qualified and capable, which obviously they are, or they wouldn't be meeting the water quality standards that would try to rush them out. Uh it's also um
believed that if they do sell the water bill the water utility that our cost is going to go up significantly which is going to be a problem for everybody in all of the municipalities and I have a concern as a New Jersey
certified fire inspector and fire official that we we have fire suppression currently all the fire hyd hydrants are functioning to the best of my knowledge.
Lahina, Hawaii, California wildfires, major issues with water fire hydrants. They lost entire areas of the city. Can you say that if it's regionalized that we can you guarantee that our fire
hydrants are all going to work and we're not going to have it in Lahina or California? And that's I I want to thank the um mayor and council for for um being on top of this and trying to keep our
utility as as our own. Thank you. Thank you. Up next we have uh Brady Rivera followed by Nicola Tatum. Please state your name and address. Thank you.
Hello everyone. Uh Brady Rivero, 704 East Brown Street. Uh I want to thank council, mayor, commissioner for being here uh tonight. Clearly, it's a very long night. Um so and everyone who's still here. Um
so for me on the issue of regionalization um I see that we clearly have a regional issue going on that affects Trenton, Hamilton, Euing, Lawrence, Hopewell, everyone who uses Trenton Waterworks.
Um, and one of the things that I really do have an issue with is just I I hear a lot of issues coming about from within Trenton Waterworks. I have not heard many voices from people who
use Trenton Waterworks um and receives water coming out of Trenton Waterworks here tonight. And so I used to work for the Hamilton Health Department. I was a translator there. I went out to houses that when children came back with blood tests that they had high levels of lead
in their blood and a lot of these houses affect my parts of the town. I currently live in Hamilton. Um but I am a son of Trenton and there's a concern there that is definitely connected to the water. And
the thing is we don't even get the full picture coming out of that because the only houses I have to go in I had to go in to inspect. I don't currently work there anymore. I resigned back in a in August of last year is that we only get cases that have five micrograms of lead in their blood.
Um, and that's all we had to go out for. Um, but a lot of these houses are connected to the same water pipes that I am currently connected to. And there's a lot of remediation here that I think needs to come from the Trenton Waterworks end. uh because there one of the issues I've
heard tonight is definitely the issue of cost and money and I think that you know when it comes to that there's definitely lack of funding that's going into Tran Waterworks but there's also a lot of issues coming out of Tran Waterworks that we cannot pay for. Uh, for example,
that my girlfriend, she her family had to shell out between $3 and $4,000 to get tested, failed every test and get remediation for that water. But a household like mine can't do that. So, we are stuck with the water that we are
dealt with. Uh, my whole family, including my dog, don't drink the water coming out of the faucet. We drink the water coming out of uh the filtered uh water in the fridge. But how many households within Trenton and without Trenton can actually do that? I was helping out uh fixing a household um
right by Washington Elementary School and there's a lot of hard water issues. And so for me, I do think that the issue of regionalization is not incorrect. We have a regional issue that requires a
regional solution. a user like myself don't have a voice here. Technically, I can come up to you guys uh as individuals, but because I am a Hamilton resident, you technically don't have an obligation to me or my opinion, which you know, legally I
respect. But if we want to hear all the other issues out, we can't just talk about we are Trenton, we are Trenton, we can solve every issue by ourselves. I think that is extremely small thinking and it only damages us because how for how many decades have we been in the same issue?
We are still dealing dealing with the same issues now that we are dealing with 10 20 30 40 years ago. I think that we definitely need to hear more from the other residents and the other governments that have to use this water.
Um I hear that everyone is saying that you know if you know Hamilton or Lawrence Ewing you know there they there's debt there but I think when it comes to the issue of regionalization well now they do have an obligation to pay in Trenton Waterworks and I don't
see that as a negative I see that as a positive we need to obligate them because at the moment only now we're only asking can you please give us the money back and clearly they haven't. that is an issue. But if we have an issue, but if we kind of come together and do an issue of
regionalization, bring the others, there's going to be more of a legal obligation for them to put in their money as long as that's the structure. I think we need to talk about that. We should bring them in, make them pay their fair share. Absolutely. And if anything, you know, we shouldn't be going in on this alone. There's a lot of
trauma, I think, that we have when it comes to our relationship with the surrounding suburbs and the state. And to me, it's not ill sat. It's it's correct. But right now, when we have a helping hand coming towards us and telling us, hey, here's
some solutions that we can look at, we shouldn't be kicking that hand away. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brady. Up next, we have Nicola Tatum, followed by Kajim Gaines. That's Kasim.
Oh, I'm sorry. Casim Gains. Nola Tatum, North Trenton. Good evening to the council and fellow Trenton residents. Um, I want to thank the council for creating a space for the residents to hear from the commissioner directly.
I want to start by saying that water is a basic necessity of life. We all need it in order to survive. So, I am never in the favor of turning our asset over to a profit-driven organization because
it's something we all need to live. [Music] Um, the commissioner referenced a report several times that all came to the council members. I wanted to know if that report could me be made available
to the public so that we could also see it if possible. I think it is probably right. Also, um, some of the things that I heard tonight, you know, raised some red flags for me and concerns. One of them
being the mention of the RFPs. He mentioned there was two. One being one that he said he sat and he was drafting with our mayor. And then there was another one he mentioned that you all weren't aware of that was looking into certain things. if that RFP was put in
place, isn't the council supposed to approve RFPs before any funds could be extended? So, if that is the case, I think that's something that council really needs to look into because it sound like no one was aware of that and I don't know how that is happening
because that would be, you know, not running the government and following the correct process and procedures that are set by government. Um also um he mentioned there was a mention of the various
levels of approvals that the city of Trenton is subject to by Department of Community Affairs. But then the commissioner also mentioned that there was funding that was possible for the waters infrastructure and that you were
not eligible based on not submitting timely and things of that nature. If the state is in place to help the city and you have all these different levels of state intervention, why would the city still not be eligible for funding if
you're literally approving every single dollar that the city is spending? If you're in place and everything has to go through state approval, why still are you not eligible for any funding? So, that's a question that I think the council really needs to look into and
ask. And with regards to legal counsel, it seems like you're going to sit here and starve us to our system is just completely bankrupt and then tell us something's wrong with it and then take over it and that's just not right.
Um, also, city council, um, what process is being put in place to collect any of the pass through balances from these municipalities that want to have a say? Like, we need to in addition to a whole lot of other things, I can't go so long
without paying my bill before you threaten to cut it off. So, I don't know why that doesn't apply to any other municipality. And that's all I'll say to that. um regarding the matter of reason um in the report he mentioned there was
left to right meaning left went as far as reasonial reason I'm tongue tied and tired sorry and to the right it was privatization um are these towns and it was asked and I'll ask again what will be their
capital um contribution you can't have a seat at the table and not contribute And then also he mentioned assets that the other municipalities would bring to the table. I think before you could even consider that, you have to look at what
assets, if there are any, they're bringing to the table because if they don't have assets and they're not contributing, how do they get to benefit from the resources that Trenton has? Um the city of Riley dorm was mentioned and
I did take some time to look at while sitting in here. I just want to say they maintain ownership and control of its water and watershed assets. Um this means that they now support the other surrounding communities but they have
not relinquished their assets. So when they are using examples of other towns, understand the whole process that went into them also regionalization. Um, and also lastly, I'll just say this. If our system is so bad,
if it is so horrible, why would any private profit drake company want our asset if it's that bad? Thank you. Up next, we have Casim Gaines. followed by Jennifer and God.
Apologies for the misprononunciation. Cool. Cassim Gangs uh city of Trenton resident and employee at the water filtration plant for the last 15 years. I personally have seen the growth of the filtration plant. I have personally
trained at the filtration plant. So when the man says there's no training going on, there's training going on because I have been trained. Okay? I went from a laborer and I'm the um acting supervisor of maintenance. So
I said that to basically tell y'all don't believe the falsehoods, right? They want to come in and take your piece your your whole pie and divide it and then give it to other people for absolutely doing no work at all. We have
done all the work there and they want to give five pieces of pie and make you have one piece so that the other three pieces or four pieces can outvote you at any given time. All right? So don't fall for the okie do. They say they want to
help us. They don't. When has the state ever came in and help us? They already failed us with education, right? The state is already based on education. They don't even um they don't even have programs to train kids that's coming out of high school to be into water
treatment or water distribution. Right? So, the state has failed us there. So, for the state to come in and say, "Oh, we're going to make you a um a regional whatever distribution power, whatever they want to try to do," is falsehood. because they never cared about us and
they still don't care about us and we still pay our taxes to them every year. Okay. So, I adise I advise this body to not fall for the okie dooke. They brought somebody in here that looks like the vice president and speaks like the
vice president, but he'll sit here and tell you lies like the vice president and and and put propaganda out there by the vice president. He told you he only visited the filtration plant once. So he's going basis off of hearsay
to make his uh recommendation hearsay cuz he only been there once, right? So when they when the DP comes in the building, we are training them on how treatment works. They don't know how systems work around there. They don't
know what chemical gets injected we're into the system until we explain it to them cuz we are in a unique water filtration plant. We are not like any other. We are bigger. All right. And we
are a U surface water filtration plant. All right. We get our water from the Delaware. Nobody asked him has any other does any other water source besides the Delaware get used and tested for all those diseases or whatever that they claim that's coming out of our water.
That is that is in that's infactual. Okay. We are a surface water water plant. There's not that many in the country. So we we are unique in standards. We are unique in treatment and we are unique on documenting every little thing that
comes out of that building. And I support Tea 100% ever since she became the uh the superintendent. Bust my behind, train other staff members, keep other staff members in in
line. All right. I does I do all that. All right. And I have a recreation degree, not an engineering degree, not a degree in um uh maintenance and finance. I learned everything that I needed to learn by working at the filtration plant and being by trained by professionals
like TA Brown Humphrey and um the former superintendent and my former U maintenance supervisor. So I have a minute left and I'm going to use my minute to more employ you don't believe the hype. They are trying to do
what they are trying to do all over the country is take over things that belong to us as a um community and use it for themselves because there's only a certain amount of things in this world that people can profit off of and the
water utility is one of them. They're trying to take our resources away from us, right? We don't have an energy plant. We don't have um um any other um um um exported uh thing besides people.
You know what I'm saying? So, they trying to take that away from us and let and and make let other people basically enjoy the fruits of our labor. All right, I'm good with that. Thank you.
Thank you. So up next we have Jennifer and Audi followed by Simone Lopez and then Fred Castanza got three. That was three. I don't know.
Uh Simone Lopez. Simon Lopez, um 228 Highland Avenue, Trenton. Um thank you council and Department of Environmental Protection and of course all of the citizens for showing up today. Um I have not come to a
conclusion on you know what I want. I know my ideal is that we keep the Trenton Waterworks um as um a community. I'm born and raised in the city of Trenton and so this conversation has been very fruitful for me. I'm learning a lot and I'm getting sources from right
straight from from where I need to get them. And so uh firstly thank you all for that. So from what I understand uh the struggle of Trenton Waterworks as per the Department of Environmental Protection is staffing capacity or aka
not enough staff. Um aging infrastructure that cannot be easily replaced or maybe even replaced at all and organizational challenges whether that is internal management or external bureaucracy. That seems to be um what I'm hearing is is the problem. Um, what
I do find interesting about the infrastructure topic is what does regionalization really propose in regard to changing or improving? Because if regionalization is the answer, are we still utilizing the current
infrastructure of Trenton Waterworks to accomplish regionalization? And if that's the case, then why do we need regionalization? The other thought there is if the other cities and I I understand
right you're paying for the water you want more say totally reasonable um yet if they want more influence and um power over it we talked about capital and ownership having to put in um what can we provide in terms of allowing that um
which ultimately sounds like it would end up being regionalization anyway right except um what we're doing is making sure that they paid for ownership if we look at it from a privatized perspective. Um yet why can't they also take that money and pay for their own infrastructure to build something of
their own? And so um when I consider regionalization no matter what what we currently have has to be used. It doesn't seem like they're going to go from scratch because they could have if they would have they would they they would be doing it now. They wouldn't be pushing regionalization. And so that's one of my
confusions about why that is the solution. Um I am curious to know what the other options were because I have not read in the reports and so hopefully I'll be able to do so soon now that I'm I'm seeing where this conversation and where things are going. Um I have more
notes here but I'm going to in no particular order mention other things that I I thought of during the conversation. for example, with the lead service um like pipe replacements. The p the group that we contracted, I understand, was um charged or not
charged, but accused of defrauding Newark um for similar work and not actually having replaced lead um pipes there. Um and so I did hear that we had delays in that project. And I think it's important that we at least acknowledge
who the vendor is and if there are delays, understanding why those delays are there and um just having more holistic conversation. Um one moment. I do think that there are very valid uh
cases about the systems that were brought up today. And so yes, the water as it stands is drinkable. I'm born and raised here. I've been drinking the water my whole life. Um, I started off tap, now I have a filter, right? But it's still the same water I've been
drinking um at since a child. Um, but government, organization, management, infrastructure, these are real concerns that need to be addressed. And I would like to see a plan proposed by the city on how we're going to do that. something
that's publicly um published not just from the Department of Environmental Protection, but something that is driven by the city and not adopted by the city from from environmental protection. Of course, that is a great groundwork, but
that should not be where it ends. Um because if the water's working now, that's okay. But I kind of thought of the analogy of a car with a check engine light. the car is still driving, but if there's signals saying that there's a problem, that doesn't mean we we can ignore them. And so, I do think that a
lot of the concerns are important to address. Now, I don't want my experience to be king because I do think the evidence demonstrates there are deficiencies, but again, I have never been sick or noticed any poor water as a resident that's born and raised in the city. Thank you for
your time. Thank you. And up next and our last public commenter, we have Fred Castanza. The last [Music] please say your name and address. Thank you.
Fred Castanzo, 11 Catwalder Drive in the great city of Trenton, New Jersey. Council Commissioner, thank you for being here. Um, I worked for Trenton Water uh back in the 90s, so I have a little idea of,
you know, what goes on at Trenton Water. Back in the 90s, we had problems, but nothing nothing major, nothing we couldn't take care of. And as the commissioner stated, sometime in the later 2000s, we started having problems.
What happened? Still the same plant, still the same system. Something happened. The people leading the waterworks at that time left. General superintendent and chief
engineer, um, Mr. Kakalori, then Mr. McIntyre, and unfortunately, we lost, um, Mr. Hogan, who was director of public works. people that came in after that. I left.
I lost my job here, okay? Which was very upsetting. But I stayed in touch with people in the water utility and understood what was happening for the next 10 years. But for the last 25 years after I left here, I
worked for utility management companies. We went in and managed utilities. We're the people that would love to come in here and take over this system. And I've seen it happen in many places. I've worked from everywhere from South
Jersey up into New Hampshire and over to Erie, Pennsylvania. We never got called in to help a water utility that was doing well. We always got called in to help a
utility and it was failing. And in some respects right now this utility is failing. You can see it. We hear it. And and I will tell you it is not the people on
the ground working like the people that have come up here and spoke that work at the filtration plant. 98% of the people that I've seen on the ground in any utility are hard workers doing their job and trying to do their
best. Everything has always crumbled from the top down. So, we have to look at what is going on. Now, we can sit here, stand here and discuss everything that's been going on tonight, everything we've heard tonight,
but that's not going to get us anywhere. We're here right now. This is where the utility is at this moment in time. We got the D sitting in our lap. We got four other municipalities that would love to come in here and help us
and take over this woody utility. And God knows we don't want that to happen. This is one of the best woody utilities that I've ever seen. and I've seen
probably 50 or 60 water utilities. But what's got to happen right now is the people that are sitting right here in front of me, it's up to you to get this water utility back on its feet.
No matter what that takes, you have to get the people, the people in this utility that know how to run it and know how to run it right from the top down. And that's the only way you're going to get this utility
working again. And you have to do it for the people of the city of Trenton. Thank you. Thank you. And council president, we've reached the end of public comment. or where would you like us to proceed to? Right. So, before we go to um civic
comment, I wanted to um we have a resolution. Sure. Would you like me to read that by title, please? All righty. Resolution making application to the local finance board. Oh, excuse me. Resolution 25-313. Resolution making application to the
local finance board pursuant to NJSA48 col4-45.3 E in the amount of $12,63,64.3. May we have a motion to approve? Madame President, also vice president. Thank you. Um I'm not sure if we have to go through with the motion before we
open up for comments. Do we Okay. No, we got to do the motion. Yes. Second to go. Okay. Thank you. All right. Moved by Councilwoman Feliciano and second by Ry. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Um can we have
someone from the administration come to explain? Yes. Thank you. Good evening, council members. Colin Cherry, assistant business administrator. Evening. Um, so this application uh is similar to what we did last year and we will
probably need to do for the foreseeable future. Um, it is the state of New Jersey imposes a 2% um cap on increasing appropriations. were able to increase that to three and
a half percent uh with what they refer to as a cost of living ordinance which this council did adopt at the beginning of this year. So, this resolution represents our request to submit an
application to the local finance board to exceed that 3.5% appropriations cap to the tune of 12,63,64.3. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are there any questions from council? Council Williams.
Council member, thank you. Uh just real quick, just to make sure we all understand, um if this does not pass, what would be the ramifications for public safety, sir? Um well, I can't speak exactly. Sure. But we would have to reduce our incap
budget by at least this 12 million 12.6 million. So, uh, we'd have to make cuts to things outside of things like insuranceances and and debt services. Um, I don't I can't tell you what exactly
we'd cut yet. We haven't prepared for that, but it would represent a $12.6 million. So, theoretically, there could be a reduction in personnel. It could theoretically um it would probably it would lead to draconian cuts in some way.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Council President. Thank you. Anyone else? Um, CBP. Yes. Thank you. Uh, I see on page two of the waiver request application, and I'm only just asking just to uh for the
public's um inquiries. It says, "Regarding the taxes, DLGS is requiring the city to increase the municipal tax levy by 2%." Um, and then it says that it's important to note that the city's current tax levy is uh a little under
2.3 million under the tax levy cap. And if this waiver is approved, there will be no tax impact on Trenton residents. That's correct. the um our transition aid application and our
transition aid umou with the state uh with DCA requires that we increase our our tax uh rate by 2%. Uh we have done that. Whether this is adopted or not, that will not change. All this will say
is essentially that we would have 12 million 12.6 $6 million that we couldn't actually appropriate. So, we'd have to make reductions to uh to our appropriations to to account for that.
Okay. Thank you. I believe that's it. Roll call. Um go ahead, please. Sure. Roll call. Council Vice President Edwards. Yes. Councilwoman Feliciano. Yes. Councilwoman Figureroa Kenberg. Yes.
Councilwoman Frisbee. Yes. Councilman Harrison. Yes. Councilwoman Williams. Yes. And Council President Gonzalez. Yes. Motion carried. Thank you. So, I'm going to just kind of jump out of order. Oh, sorry. Okay. We want to see a comment.
Okay. Jump out of order really quickly. Councilman Fero Kenberg, you have anything to say? Want to go first? Yes. Thank you, Council President. Um, good evening to everybody who's still here. Thank you again, Commissioner, um, and
your staff for coming and speaking. Um, you know, some things were found out tonight. Um, it was good. Um, I just wanted to address the Legionella thing one more time. Um, you know, I had talked about Legionella in the city or
in the county and I believe that, um, commissioner said that he had never seen an outbreak as big as that in Mercer County. However, um there were seven cases in 2023 in Mercer County, four cases the prior year. There were 21 cases in 2023 in Middle Sex County and
20 cases in Union County in 2023. You were the commissioner at that time. Um just to be clear and I also wanted to um make comment I think Mr. Brady had said that where are the other residents that this affects? I know you spoke to
regionalization and you're in favor of it. This was a public meeting. it was put out in public. Where are those other residents? I'd like to know. And where are those leaders? Where are the leaders of the other um municipalities that want to take over and want to regionalize, but they're present in the city of
Trenton at our parties, at our political events, and they're sipping our tap water in between having drinks. So, I'd like to see them here if they want to have a say. Thank you. Um, so having said that, you know, we all share the same ultimate goal, safe, reliable water
for every household we serve. But I want to be clear that Trenton does not need to give up its its water system to achieve that goal. We need the state, we need the state's partnership, investment, and fair oversight to strengthen Trenton Waterworks, not strip
our community of control. Regionalization would take decisionmaking out of the hands of those most impacted. that is neither fair nor just. We need D to stand with us to fix what we need fixed and to maintain our
ownership and our voice. Trenton Waterworks needs partnership, not a takeover. Our water belongs to the people of Trenton. It must stay that way. With that being said, I want to thank you all again for staying this late tonight. And um I want to thank my council colleagues for asking the tough
questions. Um, and again, even though we don't agree with um, everything D has brought to us, I want to thank you guys for coming. Want to thank you guys for answering the questions and for staying the full night. That is very commendable. Thank you very much, Councilman Feliciano. Council President,
thank you, Council President. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for staying tonight. Thank you to Commissioner Larlette. Did I say it right? Lette. Later. No, it's not. All right, Lette, I'm sorry I was late. I'm sleepy, but still no excuse. Thank you, Commissioner
Lret. And then to your staff for being here, everyone from D to the community for being here. Thank you so so much for TR showing up tonight and and and saying something. We appreciate that. Y'all know this ain't easy work, but it's necessary, and it is just what it is.
I've said what I've said from the beginning. I say it again tonight. I'm not with the regionalization. I believe that we can do better. I believe that we must do better. I believe that the public health and safety is definitely important, but I also believe that the state should step up and help us instead
of continuously trying to hinder us. I know that there were times where um it was said that D was saying that we needed certain employees or certain people in the water department, but then DCA was not signing the waiverss to allow that to happen. I asked for a
meeting um where we would have D and DCA in the room with us at the same time. That fell on deaf ears. That meeting never happened. This council has been trying for the longest time to get to the bottom of a lot of things just so that we can understand exactly what's
happening so that when we come forward to make a vote, we've done our research. We've asked the questions. And while it is easy to say read the report, do this, do that. If we had been a part of some of the process early on, then maybe we wouldn't be here in this long extended
meeting here tonight and all we asked for was just somebody to just tell us what is happening so that we can hear the whole picture and understand. I do want to shout out our council president again for arranging for the tour for us to go over to the filtration plant. Thank you for that. Right. It's efforts
like that that help bring us all full circle so we understand what's going on. There's never anything wrong with gaining information and knowledge before you go ahead and and make a determination on things. Um, I do want
to say that of the of the revenues that the the city had gotten from the waterworks, right? I had asked for the contributions to the various departments and everything like that. And this year it was said that it would be 1,524,496
that would go to various departments that support the waterworks. And then there was $2.6 million that go um in the general fund, right? So we're talking about $4,100,000. What happens to that money if we
regionalize? This was money that was going into our budget. This was money that was going in to help the city of Trenton. We're already getting transitional aid from DCA. I know that it was said that, oh, if we regionalize, the municipalities would come forward and then they would give us money
towards the asset. Well, anytime you're getting money towards an asset, you're not keeping it. You're selling it. Why would you give us money for something that we would be keeping? And then there was not a full valuation of the asset itself. I'm talking about pipes and meters and everything that we would own.
What does that number even look like to even make it make sense? What happens to our workers if we were even to go along with something like this? I'm just not willing to roll the dice and just say go ahead and put these people out of work. What does that mean for the local unions
for 2286 2281? What does that mean for for the contracts? What does that mean for the people? What does that mean for Trenton? Um, again, I I concur with my colleague that spoke. We need to keep it. We need collaboration. We need help.
Um I'm still curious about what happens, you know, if we say no to this. Is that bill already ready to go? Are we going to see it? Y'all remember me asking the question and remember it when you see it come forward. Sometimes some things are
already done. Sometimes some things are already done. I'm here to say I'm not done fighting for our city. I'm not done fighting for our people. I'm not done standing with you. That's not what you put me here for. And that's just not
what I'm willing to do. So again, I thank you all for coming out. I thank you for your time. I thank you for those that stayed with us tonight and for those from here that came. And I do want to shout out Mayor Patricia Farmer, the Lawrence Mayor. She was here tonight and she has been to the town hall meeting
that y'all had at the school. She has been the only one that has been present from the other municipalities that is the mayor that has come to see and hear for herself. So I do want to shout her out for bringing forth and making the effort to be here with us. God bless you
all. Good night. Thank you, Councilwoman Frisbee. Thank you, Madam President. So I want to again thank you, Commissioner, and all of your staff. I want to acknowledge you for being out here this evening. I know this isn't easy, but it isn't easy for
us as well. we are fighting. Um I just wanted you you said a couple times for us to read. You wish we would please read. I want to read something um regarding Legionnaires. Um in recent years, Hamilton Township, Mercer County, New Jersey, has experienced multiple outbreaks of Legionnaire's disease, a
severe form of pneumonia caused by the bacteria. One um there were four outbreaks, one of which um in ended up in death, which is a fatality. Um I also want to say that they were tested. there was an old building that was tested. Um
they did 20 tests. Of those 20 tests, the majority came out to be found out that they actually had it in the building. Going to what director simple was saying, it's not just in the water, it is also in different areas. It's also in the buildings. Um, so when you say
that you there's no there has not been any information so big as what has been in Trenton, there have been there also have been outbreaks in as my colleague um said as well um 20 outbreaks in Union County. There were
21 outbreaks in Middle Sex County and there's there's a lot that's going on. I have to say that um when I feel like I am having a rug pulled out from underneath me, I fight back. And that's what I felt like this evening. I felt like there you were
saying one thing and then I want to thank Robin Vaughn for coming up and playing that tape for us because that's something that had been out there and now to have it not only here but then to see it as well that and you're it you blatantly said on there that it was for
us to actually take our water. It's better not here in Trenton. And then you come up here and you've said it I don't know how many times that you're not here to take our water. Well, we know that that's how we That's what the tape said. So, I'm not going to go back and forth. You and Councilwoman Assemblywoman um
Verina Reynolds Jackson, she asked the question. I'm going to go back and actually listen to the whole thing in its entirety and and I ask everybody to do the same thing because I like to deal with the actual facts. Bottom line is we are the capital city. Um you said it was a catastrophic failure. Patter. I don't
know if you were told regarding um referring to Patterson's 200,000 customers who have been without water for over a week now. Um I believe they're slowly getting it back on, but there are a lot of things that have been going on and it seems like the highlights are only on Trenton. I feel
like there we we are being set up to fail. We've been in we've been fighting and and we have been making a lot of corrections. We have some of the best I can't call them workers our chemists. We have some of the best educated
individuals in our water department and it is being treated as though they are incompetent. They are far from incompetent and when given the proper util the proper tools we can we can do anything. Only thing we need to do is be
equipped. That doesn't mean that we want to have a takeover. It does mean that if you see something or even here's a better idea for me. Don't come in and tell us what our problem is. Come in and have a conversation with us so we can come to a mutual. There may be some things that you don't even know about
that we can bring to your to to light with you as well. Let's have a conversation. And there should never been a conversation going on with you, the mayor, and anybody else without our council president at the desk at the table. I have to say that that um she's the president of our c our body and for
her to not have been invited to the table one time. I find that disheartening and dismissive, disrespectful. Um just going to put that out there. It is not again to be combative. It is to just um give you my truths right now. And I thank everyone who came out. I thank you for your
opinion. Um Grady, there should have been a lot more people out here. As they said, it was this was a public um forum. We didn't just put it out there. It was put out there um with ample time and in different medias. People should have been out there. And I do want to thank um Mayor Pal Farmer for being out here.
I thank everybody for being out. I think our directors, I think our water department, I thank you for fighting the way you talk. What thank you for moving in excellence the way that you have. And just know no matter what they say, no matter what they do, my vote is no, Trenton Water is not for sale. With
that, I'm closing with part of our city's mission statement. As I do every time, we're recognizing that the people of Trenton have made us guardians of the public trust. We are committed to govern with integrity and fiscal responsibility to seek excellence in the city's
operations and to serve all the city's people respect and compassion. I pray that everybody gets home safely. And thank you again. Thank you, Madam President, for making sure that this was done. Thank you. Um, Councilman Harrison, I would like to thank the public for actually who's here tonight to came out
and speak. I would like to thank uh the Tren Waterworks and our wonderful staff who works hard to address these concerns. Um just be honest with you, it does still doesn't sit right with me. Um if we would have been invited to the D, I
don't think we would have been acting like that tonight. I I don't see that. Um but I wish I wish everybody in this room the best. I wish everybody in this municipality all start to realize we have a lot of great people in this city. You have a lot of people that love the
history of this city, but we also we're one thing you better realize. If you want a war, you come here, you're going to get a war. And we're going to stand up and fight for what we believe in. You ain't going to come here and just take anything. You might think you are, but that's not how it works in real life.
Also, I would like to thank uh Robert Wood Johnson Hospital. My mom's been in the hospital. She was in the hospital for 14 days. Um she had uh breast cancer. She had blood clots. Um, she had internal bleeding, but she's slowly getting better. So, I'd like to thank
the hospital for all the profession. Thank you very much. Council Harrison, Councilwoman Williams. Thank you, Council President. Um, first I just want to say thank you to Commissioner Larret. Uh, I know that was not easy for you tonight, but it's well
appreciated that you did make the time because we needed to get a lot of stuff out into the open and our citizens needed to be heard and we needed to make that sure that truths were said and untruths were cleared. And I also want to thank your staff. uh very proud to
see so many women uh on your staff, but also uh thank you for your time because four and a half hours on a Monday night isn't easy for anybody's schedule or actually five and a half maybe we might get there, but but it's well appreciated and uh having you all also be able to hear from our
citizens as well as us on council is extremely important on this issue. Um I also uh regarding uh DP I hope to work with you uh further and have discussions with our administration regarding air pollution and noise pollution on the route one corridor in
our city and those uh studies have never been done to my knowledge since the creation of Route One and it would be something that would be very helpful to the citizens of our north ward particularly and the east ward uh that are along route one and the New Jersey Transit rail lines.
So, regarding uh water, I'll just close with this. Um, it's a famous quote, but I'll just paraphrase it. You know, I've said this before at council. My colleagues have heard me quote Winston Churchill regarding the waterworks. We will fight on the beaches. We will shall
fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields and in the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender. [Music] Thank you. I know and I'm Irish. That's that's not easy for me to do.
Uh but I will close. Finally, uh we have our Northward Citizens Place Advisory Council meeting this coming uh Wednesday night. Unfortunately, due to a scheduling conflict, Sheriff Kemler will not be able to join us. Uh but the meeting will go on as it is every uh
third Wednesday of each month at Galley Baptist Church, 440 Martin Luther King Boulevard from 5:30 to 7:00 p.m. Please join us. Uh we always have a great discussion about issues in the city, not just police issues. It turns out it's a good kind of community hangout, but uh
look forward to hopefully seeing some of you there. And uh please do also come back for our regular city council meetings. And I want to just finally want to say a note of appreciation appreciation to the staff uh and leadership of the waterworks especially
for speaking up tonight. God bless everybody. Thank you. Councilman Williams, CV Council Vice President. Thank you, Council President. Good evening, everyone. I want to say first and foremost to thank you to all of the residents who came out tonight who found
it not robbery to be here on a Monday evening to express your concerns, your suggestions, your comments. Um, I want to say thank you to uh Commissioner Lerette for spending this evening with us. It's been a long four and a half hours going on. um but a plethora of
information and I realize this is an unprecedented um situation that we have here before us, but I appreciate you taking the time out irregardless to the situation. Um again, we've learned a lot here tonight
and that's what this evening was about was an exploratory meeting for us to figure out what is going on and where the communication gaps lie. This council should have been brought up to par the moment that we were sworn in office back in 2023. However, unfortunately, we were
not until things really um got out of control and there were a lot of pressure earlier this year after a report was made um public back in January again at no knowledge to this council. Unfortunately, we had to find out
everything that we know except for today and up until July 29th through third parties, through articles, through Facebook posts, through the administration and things like that. Now, I do realize that the day-to-day
operations are the responsibility of the mayor and his administration. However, as the governing body who is supposed to be making decisions on all of these matters, we should have been kept informed. So the communication isn't just on the D, it's also on the
administration as well. And I will say as a council, we can do better with our communications as well. So if we could have accountability all around, we could start to move progress forward in this city. Um, I don't see too much accountability
here. I see a lot of complaints. I see a lot of fingerpointing, a lot of this is the problem, this is the problem, this is the problem. But what are the solutions? We have a current structure that is only owned by the city
and we have a capital improvement plan six-year one that was commissioned in 2020 and here we are in the fifth year and we are not checking every item on that list. Why not? Now, I do understand that there were a lot of issues with the
previous council um with voting down a lot of the things on here and there's dozens of resolutions, dozens that were either pulled or failed. Um only a couple of them were adopted. And with that type of an inaction, we find
ourselves in an even bigger issue than what we have seen ourselves in for the past several decades. understanding historically that this has been going on decades. This is something that we inherited. So we can't keep playing the blame game about whose fault
it is. We as a council, we as a mayor and this administration right now, we have this infrastructure, this utility, and we have to figure out what it is we need to do to get it up to state standard. And that's what I want to
focus on. So, I'm going to again revisit all the reports that we have and I'm hoping that I get a response to my email requesting the capital improvement plan, the uh recent one that director Simple had mentioned when we were touring the
facility a couple of weeks ago. Um, and in terms of the the recent popup visit and things like that, I know some things were overexaggerated, but again, accountability, you know, when we're talking about problems, we also have to talk about
solutions. There is tarp covering control panels or electric panels or whatever those panels are. There is tarp covering that because the roof has been leaking for over a decade as reported by our own scientists and engineers who have been working there that long that
have noticed these issues and they have gone unressed. Now we have our own inspections department. We have our own public works department. We need our departments to work intersectionally to monitor to inspect our buildings. not just the residential buildings that you
know renters are living in, but our own buildings need to be inspected as well and we need to replace the roof because covering things with tarp is unacceptable, not as for as long as it's been. So, I just wanted to use that as an example of accountability that needs
to be had here. Um, I would like to see a plan moving forward from the department on how we plan to address everything that needs to be addressed to bring it up to standard before something like the D commissioner, either this one
or the next one, going back to the state and filing a court appeal to take it from us. We have to move our feet before we lose our seat at the table. Complaining is not enough. is not enough and I understand that the
water quality is up to par but the infra I'm sorry guys I do know that's my time and I apologize for going over but yes we have to address our critical conditions this infrastructure and that's what I'm here to find out what the solutions are for
our current infrastructure and um I'll continue to do my research and I thank you for your time have a good night thank you council Vice President. So, I'll be quick. Um, a lot of things were stated already. I want to thank um the community for coming out. I want to thank the commissioner and his staff. We
appreciate you. I know it's been a long night as stated before. So, thank you so much for staying and listening um to some hard and critical comments and and things. So, thank you. Um I share the same sentiments as everyone who has gone
before me. I know we all ready to go, so I won't be long. Um, but I do want to thank thank the employees from the Trenton Water Department for all of your hard work um that you do every single day. Um, I know it's not an easy job and so especially in a time like this when
all eyes are on us. And I just want to say thank you so much for all that you do and for opening the doors for allowing us to come in and see firsthand what goes on on a dayto-day um in the in inside of that facility. Um, just for the record, as like I said stated before, I do want to follow up and see,
um, once that comprehensive performance evaluation is completed that we can get a copy of that. Um, and a lot of the things that were said today, um, there will be a lot of follow-up conversations. Um, and hopefully we can have a a more robust um, meeting to dis
to discuss some of the things that we found um, to be true and not true today. Um, also just an FYI, since this council has been in office, we have been doing our best to make sure that we invest into the Trenton Water Department. I
know there's been a lot of talks. We've looked at different votes that's happened in the past and we have been dedicated to making sure that we are funding that water department as much as we possibly can. Um, and just quick uh to Miss Robinson, to everyone that
spoke, thank you so much, Miss Robinson. I I want to actually before I leave make sure I connect with you. Um I know you've come up here twice now and you spoke about not having a specific address. So I want to make sure that we connect you with some resources and make sure that you know what could be
available for you. Um and um just another quick announcement. August 26th is our next um it's an ABC ABC board meeting, but we will be having um special meeting immediately after with the other two hotel presentations
um as well. So, if you are able to join us August 26, 5:30 p.m. here in the council chambers. Again, thank you all for being present and everyone have a good night. May we have a motion to adjurnn? Moved. Second. All say I. I
motion adjourn meeting. Thank you everyone for coming.